AN ANSWER TO TWO TREATISES Of Mr. JOHN CAN, THE Leader of the English Brownists in Amsterdam.  
The former called, A Necessity of Separation from the Church of ENGLAND, proved by the Nonconformists Principles.  
The other, A Stay against Straying: Wherein in opposition to M. john Robinson, he undertakes to prove the unlawfulness of hearing the Ministers of the Church of England. Very seasonable for the present times.  
By the late learned, laborious and faithful servant of Jesus Christ, JOHN BALL.  He that is first in his own cause seemeth just, but his neighbour cometh and searcheth him, Prov. 18.17. Prove all things, hold fast that which is good, 1 Thes. 5.21. 
LONDON, Printed by R. B. and are to be sold by John Burroughes, at his Shop at the sign of the Golden Dragon near the Inner Temple gate, in Fleetstreet. 1642.   

TO The Christian READER, Sound Knowledge and love of the Truth, together with inward peace and Spiritual joy, through Communion with Christ, in the Ordinances of the Gospel.  
Christian READER,  
THis ensuing discourse was prepared for the Press by the Reverend Author, and committed to one of us, that it might be made public: of which we will say nothing, but shall freely venture it to stand or fall by the award of an impartial judgement. Neither shall we present thee with the Authors deserved praises, seeing his rare piety and great learning were sufficiently known to very many of various ranks, who were well acquainted with him, and his works already Printed have given a competent proof hereof unto all others who have 〈◊〉 them without prejudice and partiality.  
Only by occasion of publishing this piece, we ●●we leave to clear him from such aspersions, as by 〈◊〉 have causelessly been cast upon him, and by others too much and too easily believed against him, (a thing incident to men most eminent, and innocent, as instances in all Ages will evince) not only to the blemishing of his just estimation, but also (as we conceive) to the prejudice of the truth itself, and in favour of many spreading errors and exorbitances.  
Those aspersions which we shall endeavour to take off are two, which though they openly contradict each other, yet they unhappily agree to defame our worthy friend, whose credit we judge ourselves many ways bound to vindicate and preserve.  
The one, intimating some degree of declining from his former inconformity, in deserting the Nonconformists cause and grounds, being too much inclined to favour the times in our Ceremonies and Service book.  
The other, expressing his advancing beyond the wont limets of a Nonconformist towards the cause and course of separation.  
Two things are pretended to confirm the former. 1. A passage in the Preface of his Book called, A friendly trial of the grounds tending to separation, etc. pag. 3. his words are these. Many are the objections which are made against set forms of Prayer, and particularly against our book of Common Prayer; All which I have endeavoured to answer severally, not because they are of so great weight; but because I desired fully to satisfy every doubt, etc. Secondly, that in the whole frame of the same book he speaks more covertly and coldly against the corruptions of our Church than became a man who continued steadfast in the ways of Nonconformity.  
For Answer whereunto, we affirm in the General, That upon our knowledge he lived and died a strict forbearer and firm opposer of all such corruptions as the Nonconformists (heretofore so usually called) had commonly by their public writings disallowed. Nor have we known any man in that kind more precise, uniform, and constant to his opinion in discourse, prayers, and practices, yet always carried on with Christian moderation and meekness; which graces are of singular use in controversies of this nature: yea some of us can witness his purpose, (if God had lent him longer life) by a set Treatise to have showed himself a plaintiff for the Nonconformists against the corruptions in our Church, as in this he appears their defendant against the Calumnies of Master Can. These testimonies may satisfy the sober minded, that he continued cordial to their cause; whereunto more might be added, but we desire not to revive the remembrance of these differences among dear brethren: Because we pray and hope that through God's mercy; by means of our Gracious Sovereign, and of the present Parliament, they will in such sort be buried, that they shall arise no more to our disturbance and discomfort.  
More particularly to the passage objected out of the forecited Preface, we Answer, That the words themselves do not necessarily imply any such sense; but they may admit, yea they will carry a better construction, if the Reader will be candid and well advised. For he saith not, that he hath answered the objections, as suggesting little or nothing blameworthy in our Liturgy, but because they are not of so great weight as to enforce the unlawfulness of those set forms, or warrant a separation from our Churches, and public worship in regard thereof. All which both the title of the Book, and the tenor of the whole discourse therein, together with this Treatise exhibited will sufficiently clear unto the indifferent and attentive Reader. And that this was his meaning, some of us can testify from his own mouth, which also he would have manifested to the world (if God had lengthened his life) either in an Epistle annexed to this work, now brought into the open light, or some other way, as might have been judged most convenient.  
But you will say. Object. The other ground of this imputation is more pregnant, for why did he not speak out against the corruptions of the times as others did? Nay, why did he seek to clea● the book of Common Prayer of some things charged upon it?  
Two things we conceive may fully take off the strength of this objection. Answ. 1. Because it was impertinent here to aggravate or multiply corruptions objected, but rather to show, that as in some things the book by them was overcharged, so notwithstanding all that could be alleged against it, yet separation from our worship could not be lawful, much less necessary.  
2 The state of those times wherein this piece was penned would not brook more plainness in that and such like points; this we could (if it were expedient) abundantly evidence, by declaring with what difficulty it passed the Press, what exceptions were taken at some harmless expressions, and what amendments were exacted in some phrases, which seemed somewhat openly to hint the Author's heart-workings towards that Reformation which in these times is much desired and endeavoured.  
The second imputation remains to be removed (viz.) that though our Reverend Author had both reasoned and written against the opinions and practice of separation in the time of his health, yet on his death bed he did retract, and with grief repent what in that kind he had done.  
This is commonly reported, confidently believed, and gladly embraced, not only here at home, but also in foreign parts, even in America, as by divers letters and other ways some of us have been informed.  
It is high time therefore to give open check unto these groundless rumours, lest the cause here maintained should thereby suffer prejudice, either in the minds of them who are friends, or of those who be adversaries thereunto. And for this end we entreat the Reader first to consider that this imputation being directly contrary to the former, either they must confute each other, or else argue the man strangely light in wheeling from one extreme unto another, or guilty of a fouler fault, in writing one thing and thinking another: from both which charges we assure ourselves his great solidity in judgement, and piety in practice will fully absolve him in the consciences of all such who were acquainted with him.  
And as for others, we hope they may be abundantly satisfied by the ensuing evidence.  
First, in that four or five days before his death he expressed to some of us his willingness to have this Treatise presented to public view, which he had composed since the former.  
Secondly, so soon as he had finished this book, he undertook a large Treatise of the Church, wherein he intended to discover the nature of Schism, and to deal in the main controversies touching the essence and government of the visible Church.  
Concerning these matters, we have almost fifty sheets of Paper written with his own hand, wherein many passages express his continued dislike of the separations, both then and now in practice. And these writings, together with his other papers, he on his death bed committed to the care of some of us, to be disposed of for private or public use, as we should judge expedient.  
Had there been any grief upon his Spirit, or alteration in his judgement, in reference to what he had spoken or printed against the separation, we know none so likely to have been acquainted therewith as ourselves. For one of us dwelling near unto him, was for many years his bosom companion, and in his last sickness seldom from him. Another (being requested during, his weakness, to supply his place) so journing in the same town, was daily with him.  
The other three of us (being his familiar friends) did all visit him, within one, two or three days before his end. We are all of us, as we hope (though most unworthy) the Ministers of jesus Christ, who desire to be faithful. And we do each for ourselves seriously protest in the presence of Almighty God, that we never heard any syllable from him sounding that way.  
Yea, there is one thing more to be added, which may for ever silence all gainsayers (viz.) That one of us through God's good providence, suspecting what hath since fallen out, and being desirous to prevent such false rumours, within less than two days before his death, and not many hours before he was speechless, asked him to this effect, Whether he had any remorse or disquiet in his mind for any thing he had written in opposition to the way of Separation, whereto he thus answered, I thank God I have not any, but I rather take comfort in what I have done, and could have desired (if it had been the will of God) to have lived a while longer to have given further assistance in that work. And this question was propounded to him, and the Answer returned by him, not only in the audience of some other of us, but also of sundry other godly friends, who can attest the truth of this relation.  
Lastly, We boldly challenge any person to come forth, and to make proof either by word, or writing, that this our Reverend Brother either repent his pains, or changed his judgement against the way of separation; which if he shall accordingly do, then will we be content to undergo the severest censures, that are due unto unjust suppressors of the truth. But if any failing herein, shall hereafter persist to promote either by scattering or crediting the forenamed reports, we leave them to the judgement of all indifferent men, whether they deserve not to be accounted defamers of the dead, and liars against the truth, if not subtle promoters of their own cause and course, by pretending falsely the Patronage of their Adversary, when they could not stand before his Arguments.  
But in probability some will thus reply to our Apology, That if your friend did not retract, the more was his sin, and the less his honour. Unto whom we return this answer, That this censure strongly presumes his former discourse in the main matter to be erroneous and unjustifiable, whereas that is the thing still in question, and (as we verily believe) cannot be solidly proved. And though our Reverend Brother be dead, (whom God had extraordinarily fitted for disputes of this nature) yet we doubt not but the living Lord will raise up for himself some other instruments to maintain the truth which he had undertaken.  
There is one thing more (Christian Reader) which we desire thee to take notice of, viz. That whereas it is often reported, that this Authors former book was fully answered, before it passed the Press, and that therefore further answer thereto cannot be expected, we shall relate the truth for thy satisfaction in that particular.  
Our worthy Brother, having by Conference (as some of us, and others know) with unshaken strength defended the lawfulness of set forms of Prayer, he was afterwards by a Le●ter, sent from a worthy Gentleman, M. Richard Knightly, requested to state that question, then much in agitation, and to give in some arguments for his personal settling. Hereupon in the space of one day (the Messenger staying for an answer to the letter) he did set down his judgement, with some grounds thereof, and sent them unto his much honoured friend: from whom a copy being procured and conveyed into New England, it seems an Answer was undertaken by a reverend brother there. In the mean time, the number of them increasing who withdrew themselves from our Church Assemblies, because of the Liturgy there used, he was importuned both by Ministers and others from divers parts of this Kingdom, to take some further pains in that Controversy. This occasioned the perusal of his former papers, and the examining of those Arguments which he met withal, either in Printed books, Manuscrip s, or the Relation on of friends, against the use of set forms of prayer in general, and of our Common prayer book particularly. And thus the Embryo biggened, and being ready to be brought forth into the light, an answer unto the first conceptions came to the Author's hand, wherein was nothing material (as he conceived) but what was answered in the book●, than about to be licenced: yet by reason of some exceptions in another frame suggested, he judged it sufcient to annex a few marginal notes unto his book, as thou mayest observe, page 13.15.24.33. etc. being unwilling in a more open way to reply upon the private answer of him, whom he highly prized, and intending (if God had spared life) to have returned more large and particular animadversions to himself in private.  
The Almighty speedily cast out of his Church all causes of offence, clear up doubtful truths unto the hearts of his people, Compound all differences amongst Brethren, make us all of one mind, heart, and way in his worship, that our divisions may no longer dishonour the Gospel, distract the weak conscience, disinable us to do that good we desire, or put weapons into the hands of then, who oppose that reformation, the perfecting whereof our souls long for, through JESUS CHRIST.  


THOMAS LANGLEY.  
WILLIAM RATHBAND.  
SIMEON ASH.  
FRANCIS WOODCOCK.  
GEORGE CROSS.     

An Advertisement to the READER.  
THis Book was divided and sent unto several Presses, that it might the sooner come abroad, yet by reason of the multitude of Pamphlets which it met with daily, it hath been thrusting through the throng for the space of half a year at least, before it could see the light. In which regard also, it pleads excuse, if in the printing it be not found every way so punctual, as might be desired.  
Farewell.   

THE ANSWERS TO THE EPISTLES.  
BLessed be the Lord, 
2 Thes. 2.8.  We see now in good measure; that accomplished which the Apostle foretold, touching the revelation of the man of sin, and hearty beg the full consuming of him by the brightness of Christ's coming. But the discovery of that mystery of iniquity, and consuming of that monster of abominations, standeth not in separation from Christian societies, entirely professing the true faith, worshipping the Lord with that pure worship, which he hath appointed, and holding communion in those ordinances, which God hath blessed to the comfort of thousands and ten thousands; even their souls, who with most bitterness oppose those congregations, if ever they felt sound comfort indeed. Separation from the true Churches of Christ; his Ministry and worship (of which sort I shall prove that to be by the Word of God, for which I plead) tendeth not to the overthrow of Antichrist, but to the renting of the Church, the disgrace of Religion, the advancement of pride, schism, contention, the offence of the weak, the grief of the godly, who be better settled, the hardening of the wicked and the recovery or rising again of Antichristianisme.  
They that condemn our Assemblies, Ministry, and Worship, and voluntarily separate from the preaching of the Word, Prayers, and Sacraments as Antichristian, if in words they do not maintain Antichrist, really they do him more credit than his chief upholders. For of necessity they must confess, that in Antichristian Churches the entire faith may be purely professed, the doctrine of salvation plentifully preached, 
Ambr. in Luc. l. 6. c. 9 tom. 5. Petra tua Christus est, fundamentum Ecclesia fides est. Si in Petra fueris, in Ecclestaeris. P●ra est Changed istus. Hieron. in Psa. 133. Ecclesia ibi est, ●bi fides vera est. Ecclesia autem vera illic erat ubi fides vera eral, cum haeretici omnes bas ecclesias possidebant, Aug in ep●st. Ich. tract. 3. Estautem mater ecclesia, & uberaejus ●uo Testamenta divinarum S●r. hinc sugatur lac omnium Sacrameatorum pro aeterna salute nostra gestorum. E●●n Psalm. 21. Vbicunque timetur Deus & laudatur ibi est ecclesia. Parker. Ep. published in the profane Schism of the Brownists. CAN A stay against straying, answ. § .. 1. p. 44. Mediam tenn●●e beati. The true and pure worship of God is called gross idolatry. CAN stay. §. 4. p. 32. Filthy superstition. Id. sect. 1. p. 49. Our assemblies the harlot's house. Id. sect. 4. p. 61. The best Preachers are the worst. Id. sect;. 5. p. 76. In Scriptures are said to be Robbers and Thieus, yea spiritual sorcery is charged upon them. Id. se. 8. p. 87.  the seals of the covenant for substance rightly administered, and by the blessing of God upon his own means Christian souls ordinarily converted and nourished unto life eternal, which is much more than all the factors for Antichrist shall ever be able to make good; and if true, nothing could be 〈…〉 to the praise of Antichristianisme. In effect, 〈…〉 they less, than even persecute the Lord jesus in his hadst, which they revile in his ordinances, which they dishonour, and in his servants whose footsteps they slander, whose 〈◊〉 they desolse, whose office they trample upon with 〈…〉 Which if the forward abettors and promoters of this separation did advisedly consider, and take the Lord before them, they would not furiously brand and abandon that worship and ministry, which hath the approbation, and carrieth the seal of God. As it is unlawful to approve that thing which ought to be condemned, so to condemn, what is to be justified, much more to cast off and reject those godly assemblies, which Christ hath and doth grace with the presence of his grace, as false; and that worship which is tendered to God alone, in the mediation of jesus Christ according to his will, as idolatry; and that Ministry which God hath, and daily doth bless, to the gaining and edifying of souls, unto life everlasting, as Antichristian.  
Humble minds are afraid of novelties: 
CAN stay. sect;. 1. p. 48.  But this is the greatest novelty that ever was heard of in the Churches of the Saints. All that we speak we should affirm out of the holy Scriptures, sound interpreted, and rightly applied. But this judgement is not of God, is not taught in Scripture, 
CAN stay. sect. 11 p. 112. In cord animáque credentium ponitur idolum, quando novum dogma constituitur. Hier. in Jer. 32. Omne dogma contrarium veritati adorat epera manuum svarum, & constituit idola in terrá suâ. Hier. in Isa. 2. Ne sit●s mul●e Magistri dissenti●ntes a doctrinâ uni●● Magistri Christi. August. l. 1. Retract. A Stay sect;. 1. pag. 47. Quicquid pariter omnes uno eodemque consensu, etc. Vincent. Lyrinen. count. proph haeret c 4. Field of the Ch. l. 3 〈◊〉 43. p. 175.  is not consonant to the doctrine of Christ, our only Master, as in the examination of particulars shall be showed? If it be a great sin to be rash and adventurous, upon opinions in matters of Religion, where men are not first well informed in judgement by true grounds of knowledge: What is it to condemn the Churches, Ministry, Worship and Servants of the Lord jesus, against the express Sentence of our heavenly Master and Teacher? If an Idol be set up in the Church, when a new Opinion is broached (as some cite it out of Hierom) they of the Separation upon trial will be found the strangest Idol makers in the world, because they have broached the strangest novelty that ever was maintained in the Church.  
Such as lay down rules (saith the author of the Stay) to find out the truth by, writ thus; What the Fathers all with one consent have held and written, is a necessary token to know the truth by. And whatsoever hath been holden at all times and in all places by all Christians, that have not been noted for novelty, singularity and division, is to be received as the undoubted truth of God. If these assertions be true, then is this condemnatory sentence most unjust and untrue. For not only all old writers generally, but the most learned of later times; yea and all sects and sorts of people professing Christianity (themselves excepted) are against it.  
Therefore did they consider the terror of the Lord, 
CAN stay, sect. 1 p. 8.  and that great day in which the Lord jesus shall appear in the brightness of his Father, to avenge the quarrel of his least Commandment, and to judge the wrongs, 
Gregory to John the Bishop of Constantinople saith thus Tu q●●● Christo universali, ecclesic capiti, in extr●mi judicii d●cturus es examine; qui cuactacjus membra tibimet conarts universalis appellatione supponere. CAN stay against straying, sect 1. p. 8 Parker of the cross part 2. c. 9 sect; 2. I may well compare some of unbridled spirits to the Flaccians, whose intemperate fury, made Ernestus to deal the more hardly with the Protestants, out of a fear they were all of the same spirit, and would in the end procure like mischief. Am. Polan. in Dan. c. 9  injuries and reproaches, which are cast upon his Church and Saints, ordinances and worship, they would not speak evil of what they know not, revile his heritage, despise his worship, condemn the righteous, vilify the ordinances of grace, abuse Scriptures, misalledge Authors, cause divisions and schisms, in the Churches of God, distract the minaes of some, obstinate others, and expose religion itself to contempt. Let me speak to them as the great est zealot in that cause at this day, speaketh to his opposite in a cause of less importance. When God ariseth up what will they answer him? what will they say, when he shall not only charge them, that they have made a rent in the Church, brought an evil report upon his ordinances, spoken contemptuously of that which he approved, yea commanded, and perverted his word for that end and purpose: But also that they have laboured with might and main to draw others into the same transgression, by means whereof his name is blasphemed, the weak scandalized, the godly made sad, and that which was halting quite turned aside?  
If it be sure, that a more grievous punishment is reserved for them that cause others to offend, than for them which do such things themselves, let the adviser weigh seriously, whether it doth not concern himself, as much as any other, to tremble and stand in awe.  
It is a vain boast, that at this day there are few, 
CAN say. Epis● to the Reader. The judgement and practice of some men of special account in the Church of God, have to this day held this impression in me, that I esteem the Captains and Ancient-bearers of this schism, unworthy the honour of any set conflict and public confutation. S. B. the raising of the foundation of Browne. Ep. to the Christian Reader. CAN Neces. of separa. Epist. to the Reader. Galschill to Martial Epist. Omnia invalida nihilo sunt aequi●● paranda.  if any, except Formalists and Familists, and men of corrupt minds, who suppose that gain is Godliness, that will appear in defence of our parish Church's Ministry and Worship. For the professors (as he is pleased to style them) are of the same judgement, touching those things that formerly they have been of, and stand ready by the Scriptures to prove their godly congregations, to be the true Churches of jesus Christ, and their worship to be of his holy institution. If of later times they have been silent in these matters, it is not because they are better informed; or that they see and acknowledge their worship and Ministry to be falls and idolatrous: but they would not spend good hours in vain, seeing what soever was written in this kind had been learnedly and sufficiently answered, not with reproaches, taunts, and boastings as is suggested, but with solid proof out of the book of God. Christian Religion teacheth men to occupy themselves otherwise, than to misspend their time in answering that, which in the ears of all indifferent men carrieth a sufficient confutation with it, or is sufficiently confuted already: specially when experience had lessoned them, that they must deal with such as will overcome by peremptory censuring, when weight of reason is wanting to them.  
Nevertheless, 
If not, reply if they please and when they will. CAN stay. Epist. When the undertakers have finished their answer, and ●ast. Dau. published his many things that he hath to say against it. Id, sect. 4. p. 36.  least overmuch silence should be interpreted consent, or beget too great confidence in men, of the goodness of their cause, and others should stumble at their vaunts, as if none durst, because they do not undertake their answer, I am purposed by the grace of God to examine the grounds and arguments, whereby they would persuade the Necessity of Separation from our Assemblies, and from the worship of God performed amongst us.  
Sundry things M. Can requesteth of him that shall undertake to read and answer his books, 
CAN stay. epistle to the Reader.  1 That when he setteth himself to read he should set himself as in God's presence, and look on with a single and unpartial eye. 2 That he live by his own faith, and build not upon another man's fancy. 3. That he deny himself and be contented to be guided by God alone. 4. That for a particular fail he do not condemn the whole. 5. That he change not the state of the Question. 6. That he may find plain dealing, 
Id. Stay. sect. 1. p. 2.4.5. Sanctis Scripturis non loquentibus quis loquitur, Amb. de vocat. Gent. tom. 2. l. 2. c. 3. Omne quod loquimur debemus ●ffi mare de Scriptures sanctis, Hier. in Psal 98. tom. 8. Nihil ultra quamsacris literis proditum est definiendum, Erasm. in Hilar. Solum Dei verbum certum, caetera falsa si d●ssentiant. Fer. ad Rom. c. 3. p. 303. CAN stay. sect. 4. p. 32. & sect. 1. p. 44.  and what is brought against him, be read out of the Prophets or Psalms, the Law or Gospel.  
Whether these conditions be observed by the Author himself in his writings, let the indifferent judge, as namely, whether passages of Scripture be truly alleged, Authors rightly quoted, arguments plainly propounded, conclusions sound drawn, his adversaries ingenuously dealt withal? Whether in writing he set himself in the presence of God, and weigh in the Balance of the Sanctuary what he commendeth unto his Reader? Whether he censure not before he make proof by Scripture, and rather insult over his adversaries with insolent and reproachful terms, than confute their grounds with substantial reasons? and whiles he commendeth plain dealing, simplicity and integrity, he do not play the juggler, who pretends plainness, that he might beguile and deceive the sooner.  
For when he makes semblance of zeal for the purity of religion, 
CAN stay. Epist: to the Reader. CAN Neces. of separation. Epist. to the Reader.  wisheth tenderness of conscience to his Reader, ever and anon objecteth to his opposites what abominations and vile corruptions they labour to justify, which formerly they condemned, beareth in hand that the Scriptures speak expressly for him, and the learned of all sorts ancient and modern, who would not expect fair carriage and honest dealing? whereas, let the whole frame of his writings be looked into, with a single heart and unpartial eye, and it will be found weary corrupt, lose, deceitful for the matter, and stuffed with scorn, reproach, slander, insolency, and falsifications for the manner. Herein whether I speak the words of truth and soberness, let the Reader search, and then give sentence.  
But for mine own part I desire to answer in the fear of God, and not to strive with him in the like measure of sinning. A good cause needs no such tricks of wit, but as it is of God, so it is able to maintain and defend itself, and the more sincerely it is propounded, the more it will prevail. In controversies, if men will keep a good conscience, their zeal must be tempered with wisdom, truth, and meekness of spirit, they must speak as in God's presence, give the right sense of Scripture, and make fit application of it, seek the truth in love, and that victory alone which truth will carry. According to the measure of grace received from God, I shall desire to walk within these bounds and with this resolution I come to compare cause with cause, and reason with reason. Let the Scriptures be the only judge between us, upon which all 
a Aug. Epist. 48. Audi quid dicit Dominus, non quid dicit Donatus, etc. Et de Pastor. ca 4. Ego vocem Pastoris requir●, lege de Psalmo etc. Hieron. in Mat. 23. Quod ex Scriptura non habet authoritatem, etc. Basil. de vera fide, Nos omnem a Dominica doctrina alienam & vocem, & sententiam fugiamus. Chr. in 2 Cor. hom. 13. Obsecro & oro omnes vos, ut relinquatis quid huic vel illi videatur, & de his scriptures haec omnia inquirite. Ambr. tom. 3. lib. 5. epist. 31. Caeli mysterium doceat me Deus ipse, non homo qui seipsum ignoravit. Petrus de Aliaco praec. Gerson. Nullum principis edictum, aut ecclesiae decretum est justum, nisi sit Divinae legi consonum. Novum Testamentum est malleus, qui universas haereses interimit, est velut lucerna lumen exhibens, recurrendum est ad folas Scripturas ut aete●nam salutem adipiscamur.  conclusions in Divinity, if sound, are grounded, whereby all distinctions, if true, are warranted. After the voice of God in Scripture, the determinations and practices of our Guides, who are no 
b Mat. 11.8. Luc. 7.14. 1 Reg. 14.15. sc. calamus arundincus, non aromaticus s●● mensorius. CAN stay. answ. sect. 1. p. 47. Howsoever we must live by our own faith, notwithstanding, we are not lightly to esteem of the determinations and practices of our Guides, specially when we know they are no reeds, but men stable and unchangeable in the truth. Bilson Christian subject part 2. pag. 351. Many Bishops have taught lies, and and seduced Princes in the Church of God: and therefore not their dignity but their doctrine is it that princes must regard: for neither prince nor people stand bound to the persons of men, but unto the truth of God, and unto their teachers, so long as they swerve not from the truth. Id. Absolute judge of truth, neither prince nor priest may challenge to be, for God is truth; and of God I trust no man may be judge. The son of God saith of himself, I am truth, etc. Angust. de nuptiis, ad Valentin. l. 2. cap. 33. Optat. lib. 5. ad Parmenian. And, page 351. Only God is to limit and appoint by his word, what shalt stand for truth and what for error etc. And as Bishops ought to discern which is the truth before they teach, so must the people discern who teacheth right, before they believe. Idem page. 355. As the pastors have authority from Christ to preach the truth, and woe be to them that resist the preachers of truth, so have all hearers both liberty to discern, and a charge to beware of seducers, given them by the same Lord, and woe be to them that do it not.  reeds, but men stable in the truth shall be produced, for they are not lightly to be esteemed, though their consent cannot be the ground of Divine faith and assurance.  
The Lord in mercy give us to know the things which concern our peace, comfort and salvation, and make us wise to walk in all pleasing before him.   


CHAP. I.  
THe Question betwixt us is, Whether by the Scriptures, and principles of the Nonconformists, 
The state of the Question.  Separation from the Church of England be necessary or lawful? Those that hold it lawful to be present at the preaching of the Word, but not to partake in the prayers of the Congregations, nor to be present at the Sacraments there administered, I leave to their own defence: The necessity or lawfulness of Separation is that which I deny.  
Neither is it here questioned, 
CAN. Necessit. of Separ. Epist. to the Reader.  Whether the principles of the Nonconformists be true and justifiable, but whether the necessity or lawfulness of separation can truly, and justly, be inferred and concluded from them. This Position therefore I lay down, as directly contrary to the other; That separation from the prayers, Sacraments, and preaching of the Word of God in the congregations and assemblies of the Church of England, is unlawful by the Scriptures, & that whatsoever complaints (whether just or unjust) the Nonconformists, judicious, learned and holy, have made of the corruptions in our Church government, Ministry, Worship, Prayers, Administration of the Sacrament, and people, received, or permitted as external members, they do not infer, either in their judgements, or in truth, a necessity or lawfulness of Separation from our Churches, as no true Churches of Christ, our Ministry as false and Antichristian, our Worship as Idolatry. And therefore, I shall shall hope, such as have separated unadvisedly, if men of tender hearts, they will repent of their rashness, seeing the grounds where upon they build are rotten, the building ruinous, and the practice directly tending to the scandal of Religion, and discomfort of their souls. And now I proceed in the fear of God, by the beams of Truth, to try and examine what is objected, to show the necessity of Separation from the Nonconformists principles.  

SEC. I.  
TO Communicate in a false Ministry, 
CAN. Neces. of Separate ca 1. S. 3 pag. 26, 27. The Church acts of Antichristian Ministers, are Idolatious. Id. Stay. sect. 1. pag. 5. & s. 4. p. 28. Id. Stay. Answ s. 5 pag. 66. Mat. 24.5.24. Hos. 4 17. See Jun. on the the place. See Stay against straying s. 13. p. 124. 125. jere. 23.6. Prov. 5.3. Mat. 7.15. joh 104, 5. Phil. 3 2. See Stay against, Sect. 12. pag. 116, 117, 118, 119. & s ●●. p. 112, 113 joh 4.23. Rom. 12.12. Numb. 16. Isal. 50.18. 1 Tim. 5.22. 〈◊〉 against Stray. sect 6 pag. 81.82. & sect. 13. pag. 89. Matth. 28.19, 20. Luk. 10.16. 〈◊〉 The●● 2.2, 3, 4. Revel. 13 & 14 9 12. & 18.4.  is certainly a breach of the Second Commandment; For what do they, but indeed set up an Idol, yea and bow down unto it, who serve God in, and by a devised and usurped Ministry. In Song 1.7, 8. The faithful entreat Christ to be showed where he by his Ministry, with his Spirit, Word, Seales, Censures, etc. feedeth his Flock, that there they might place themselves for Instruction and Government, and not turn aside to the flocks of his companions, that is, the congregations of false Christ's, and false Prophets, which came in his Name, saying, I am Christ, and deceive many. Again, Ephraim is joined to Idols; What were they? among others, they were Priests which Jeroboam ordained for the high Places: What follows? let him alone, that is, have no communion with him, either in his false Ministry, or other Idolatry. Often do the Prophets, Christ, and his Apostles, forbidden men to hear those, which thrust themselves into ministerial offices, not being sent of God, and from the Church. To communicate in a false ministry, is to do a vain worship; and therefore unacceptable altogether unto the Lord. In this men do abet the party in his sin, and so make it their own by imputation, and inwrap themselves in the same guilt with the offender. God hath promised no blessing to his Word, but in his own Ordinance, though I confess he may, yea, and doth grant oft times that, through his infinite Goddess, which no man can challenge by an ordinary promise. To do otherwise, is to rebel grievously against the Lord, and to uphold, what in us lieth, that which the Lord will consume: therefore, as no good Subject should assist or communicate with any person in the administration of civil justice to the King's Subjects (no although he administer the same never so legally, justly, impartially) except the same person had a commission from the King so to do: so neither aught the Subjects of Christ's Kingdom, 
A dumb Mastery being unlawful and false is to be separated from, their Ministers for the greatest part, are dumb Ministers C●● Necess. of Separ. pag. 42.  to partake with any person whatsoever in the dispensation of any Spiritual ordinance (though in itself never so holy) without sufficient warrant and commission from the most absolute and Sovereign King of his Church, Christ Jesus. Such as have spiritual communion in a false Ministry, do embrace the bosom of a stranger, and so commit spiritual whoredom against the Lord. Christ setteth it down as a property of his sheep to be observed, that they follow not strangers, but fly from them, for that they know not their voice.  

ANSWER.  
THis Reason is grounded upon the complaint which Nonconformists make of some great abuses in the Ministry: but in them it is not to be understood of all Ministers, 
Where are the words, or what be they, that condemn all the Ministers for some? that say all Ministers are unlawfully admitted, for some? or that there is none good, because some are bad? If there be no words, that carry with them any such sense, than you do wrong to your brethren. The Lord bless and increase an hundred fold the godly, wise, learned, grave Ministers of this Church. T. C. repl.. 1. pag. 25. And so others in their complaints, are to be understood. Nolo autem 〈◊〉 quis existimet per ea, quae ecclesiasticorum permissa sunt, me omnes prorsus ecclesiasticos, nullo excepto, compreh●ndere velle. Nic. Clem. Specul. Eccles.  nor to infer a nullity of the Ministry. It is nor to be understood of all Ministers, for amongst them there be many learned, wise, godly and painful, as the truth is, and they acknowledge, duly called and approved, whose Ministry God hath sealed, and blessed. It doth not infer, a nullity of the Ministry of others: for even the idle, unlearned, scandalous, being in the room of Ministers, are Ministers to others, though not to themselves, and their Ministry, so long as they Minister the things of God, is effectual to the people of God. If then your meaning be, that the whole Ministry of the Church of England is false, impure, unlawful, according to the principles, and complaints of the Nonconformists, it is notorious: If that the Ministry of the Church of England in general is a nullity, by reason of some maims and defects found therein, which they desire might be redressed, in that also you do them apparent wrong.  
In the Proposition, as it is set down, that we may understand the sense thereof, two things are to be considered. 1. What is meant by a false Ministry. 2. What it is to communicate in a false Ministry.  
In plain and distinct dealing, a false Ministry is not to be confounded with a maimed, defective, or impure Ministry, for as the Gospel may be preached truly when it is taught impurely, so may the Ministry be true for substance, when it is impure in some respects. But seeing in your language, every unlearned, scandalous, negligent Minister, is a false Minister, and the Ministry which he executeth, is a false Ministry; therefore to omit further contestation about the word, It must be noted, That a false Ministry is twofold. 1. Absolute, viz. such as is no ways appointed of God, in respect of the substance of the office, whereunto he is set apart, as if a Minister be called to preach pernicious and damnable doctrine, or to offer Sacrifice propitiatory for quick and dead, and this Ministry is a mere nullity. 2 Comparative, or in some respect, as that which is maimed in the qualities, or care of the party chosen; or designed, as if a man unlearned, scandalous, idle be chosen; if he feed not the flock, or teach without power and authority. And this Ministry is defective, but of force and efficacy to the people of God: for substance, it is of God, for the good of his flock, and what is done in the administration is done by the authority of God, but the persons themselves, if in no measure qualified, are not allowed and approved of God.  
The second phrase, To communicate in the false Ministry, may import two things. First, to communicate in the sins of the Ministry, 
Iniqua lex est quae se exammari non patuur. Tert. in A●ol. Non tam vi cogere homines ad obsequium, quam ratione persuadere debenteae leges, quae scribuntur a pio nomotheta. Dan polit. Christ. lib. 5. cap. 3. Course of confor. pag. 149. Gratian. Decr. 1. dist. 12. cap. 1. Bilson Christ. Subject. par. 2. p. 353. 354. Quomodo vero discedimus ab impi●s hominibus? Morum dissimilitudine. Si ab ipsis corpore divelli possumus, & nos ad meliores confer, onmino debemus: sed saep● fit, ut velis nolis, in medio imp●orum●e ve●sari oporteat: caveas igilur ab eorum stud●is & operibus, ut Deus tecum loquatur. Lavat. in Eack. cap. 3. Hom. 11.  and this is altogether unlawful. For God's people, when the matter cometh to their practice, must have the judgement of discretion (and further they crave not) the judgement, I say, of discretion to try the Spirits, whether they be of God or not. And in case the Church, whether of ignorance or contention, or a man-pleasing humour, determine in doctrine against the Word, or in ceremony against the general Rules, their duty is to obey God, rather than man. But the sins of the Minister, or other part of the Congregation, shall not be imputed to him, who doth only communicate in the ordinances of worship. 2 To communicate in a false Ministry, may import, to communicate in the ordinances of worship with them, whose calling is not in every respect approved of God: and this is lawful.  
If then the sense of this reason be, That our Ministry is absolutely false, or a mere nullity, it cannot be made good by Scripture grounds, or Non-conformists principles, but the contrary is most evident. And he that shall undertake to prove such a desperate Proposition, must grant that there was neither Church or Sacrament, nor Ministry in the world for many hundred years past, if he find not just cause to question his own Christendom. But if the meaning be, that it is not lawful to communicate in the worship of God, with Ministers not fitly qualified, disorderly called, or carelessly executing their office and function, than it is directly cross to the Word of truth, sound reason, and consent of all the learned.  
If you demand, as you do of your Pistoler, 
Where I pray you, do you read in the Scriptures of two kinds of Antichristian churches? speak out man: show us the place, the chapter and the verse: ingenuous dealing requires it. Stay, sect. 3. pag 20. Isa. 56 10 11.12. Jer. 8 8.9, 10.11 M●c 3.11. Mal. 2.8. Ezek 44.7, 8, 9, 10. See jun. annot in loc. L water ibid. M.c. 3.11. Jerem. 5.31. 1 Sam. 2.12, 15, 16, 17, 25. 1 Sam. 1.1, 2, 3 I●h. 2 16. See Constant. Emperor Cumin Misn  where we read in Scripture of these two kinds of false Ministers, and communicating with either in the ordinances of worship, we will show you the place, the chapter and the verse.  
When the Priests were dumb dogs, that could not bark, and greedy dogs, that could never have enough, was their Ministry true or false, were they qualified, as becomes the Ministers of the Lord of hosts or no? The strangers and uncircumcised, which were set to take the charge of the Lords Sanctuary; were they true Ministers, or false? When the Priests taught for hire, and the Prophets prophesied for money; when the prophet's prophesied lies, and the Priests bare rule by their means; Was their Ministry true or false? Were the Sons of Eli true or false Ministers? qualifyed as becometh the servants of God, they were not, but the function which they executed, was of God. When the Priests bought and sold Doves in the Temple, or took upon them to provide Doves, or such like things for them that were to offer, was their Ministry, true or false? Did they that whereunto they were appointed of God or no? 
Matth 5.20.21 22. etc. Matth. 15.3, 4, 5. Matth. 23.13.15.  When the Scribes and Pharisees corrupted the Law by false glosses, taught for doctrines men's precepts, made the Commandment of God of none effect by their traditions, shut up the Kingdom of heaven before men, neither going in themselves, nor suffering them that would, making those of their profession twofold more the children of hell than themselves: When they taught Justification by works, and perfect obedience to the whole law, and denied in Christ, both the Person and office of the Messiah, blaspheming him in his doctrine, as a deceiver of the people; 
Matth. 12.24. Luk 7 30. Joh. 7.32. Matth. 21.45, 36.  in his life, as a glutton and wine-drinker; in his glorious miracles, as one that wrought them by the Devil; and when they hated to be reform, was their Ministry true or false? were they called of God, or did they thrust in themselves before they were sent? If their Ministry was true, than an ignorant, Idol, profane, idle Ministry, which despiseth knowledge, opposeth Godliness, profaneth the holy things of God, corrupteth the Law, polluteth the worship, strengtheneth the hands of the wicked, and leadeth the blind out of the way, may be a true and lawful Ministry of God.  
It is besides the mark here to answer, that the Scribes and Pharisees did neither minister to any but the Lord's people, nor in an unlawful place, nor by an unlawful entrance: For the Question now is of their Ministry, & the qualification of their persons to the office, which they took upon them, Whether such a Ministry as theirs was to be approved of God, and such Persons to be chosen, or continued in their standing. For be their outward calling what it will, and the people to whom they administer, as they may; if the Ministry be not of God, if the persons be not qualified as God requireth, if they execute not their office for God, according to his will revealed, and the good of his people, but against God; according to their own corrupt imaginations, and to the grief of the godly, their standing in that place and room, without question, is not of God's approbation, nor their calling lawful. It might be added, 
Num 8 9, 10. L●●. 8.3.  that though the tribe of Levi only was used to the Ministry, yet all that tribe was not applied that ways, nor those at all adventure, but by choice, according to their abilities. And therefore, if the Pharisees were not fitted in some measure for their office, the choice was not by approbation from God, nor their entrance lawful.  
If then their Ministry was false, either it was unlawful to communicate with them in the ordinances of worship, 
Matth. 8.4. Luk. 17.14. Io. 18.20. Luk. 22.53.  which is directly cross to Scripture, the examples of the Prophets, our Saviour, his Apostles, and all the faithful; or to communicate with, or in a false Ministry, is not a breach of the second Commandment.  
They that preached Christ of envy, 
Phil. 1.15. St Paul. to the Philip. is glad that the Gospel is preached although it be not purely, but he would never have been glad, if it should have been preached falsely, or not truly, etc. the want of a good calling, may give occasion to say, that the Word of God is not sincerely taught, because there is not a lawful & ordinary calling: l. C. repl.. 1 pag. 28.  to add affliction to Paul's bands, were they true Ministers or false? What soever you will say, to hear them preach Christ, was no breach of the second Commandment. If in some respects they were true and false both, than the Ministry is not absolutely false, which in some considerations is not pure, as it ought, and is to be desired; then the Ministry may be true in one respect, and false in another; then also it is no sin to communicate with, or in a false Ministry, so far, to wit, as it hath truth, and doth carry the stamp of God, so fare as the faithful are allowed to desire, and they have authority (though not approbation) from God, to dispense his ordinances.  
An ignorant Minister is an Idol, having eyes when he seethe not, and so is a scandalous idle Minister, yea an Hypocrite, and hollow-hearted Minister, having only the outside of a Minister, but wanting the life and soul, the approbation and allowance of God. But the faithful do neither bow down unto an jdol, nor set up an Idol to themselves, who seek and desire the ordinances of grace from their hands, unto whom God in his Providence hath committed the dispensation of holy things, for the good of his people, though not for the profit of themselves. Who is blind, but my servant? to wit, Jsrael, which should have most light, because of my law: or deaf as my Messenger that I sent? The Priests and Levites whom I sent to teach the people. The Idol Shepheard, the Lord calleth his Shepherd, 
Isa 42.19, 20. Sept. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. See J●n● annot. in loc: P●sc. schol. ibid. Zach. 11.17. Tarnov: in loc. Rutgers: 〈◊〉: Metaph. ca●de B●n●t: pag. 175.  not because he doth the will of the Lord, but he is sent of God to the people, who by just means doth revenge the impiety of men. He entereth sinfully, that is never so well able to teach, if either he live profanely, or teach corruptly, or be altogether remiss in his office; when yet to hear him once being in office, and well gifted, was never deemed an humane invention. Sometimes it doth so fall out, that to avoid some great hurt or danger, or for some other end, some things may lawfully and ordinarily be intended, which without such peculiar circumstances, whereby evil is separated from them, would be unlawful. And though it be unlawful to choose such a Minister, or to have private familiar society with such a scandalous person, yet it is lawful to join in the ordinances of grace, because God hath called us thereunto, and so ordained.  
An ignorant or scandalous Minister is given in judgement, 

So Tyrant's reign by God's Providence, but not by his approbation. Hos. 8.4. Tert. apol cap. 30. & ad Scapul. cap: 5. Orig. in lab. Ind. hom. 4 Cyp. epist 55. & 68 Hos 13.11. See Deodat. annot. Itali ia loc. Origen Hom 4, in jud. Aug. contr. epist. Parm. lib. 2. cap. 4. Chrysost. Hom. post. in Hebr. Steut ergo ●lum pia crant sacrifica secund. legem, quimvis ab impus sacerdoribus celeb ata, jer. 3.14.  
Si pia res est imperium, quamvis ab impio teneatur. Grot. de jure belli & pacit. l. 1. ca 2. Gratia● decret. par. 3 de consec. d●st. 4. cap. 25.26, 27. 39 Hos. 4.5, 6 T. Crepi. 3. pag. 13. Admonit. pag 47. CAN. ne essit. of Separate. pag. 41. Z●●ch in Host 4.6. Rivet. in Hos. 4.6. Etsi ab hommib es non repellantur, ne sacerdotis extrinse us in Ecclesia sungantur.   but so, as God remembreth mercy for his, which he will reach forth by them. If God set Tyrants over a people in wrath, may not the Righteous seek protection under them, or receive right by their government. God takes no pleasure in an ungodly Minister, but he is pleased to place them here and there, that the children of blessing might receive by their Ministry, what the Lord hath promised, and knoweth to be expedient for them. The Church-acts of ungodly Ministers, are to themselves unprofitable, and in them sinful, abominable, but to the Congregation, they may be profitable, effectual, acceptable, as they are done for them, not without some calling, by Providence of God, and authority from God.  
The Pastors according to Gods own heart, whom he gives, of his matrimonial love, and special favour, are furnished with the gifts of knowledge and holiness: but others are called of God, not without his overruling stroke in that which is done by men. The Lord threatens to reject them, who despise knowledge, that they shall be no Priests unto him: But this threatening is not a present degradation, or turning them out of office, disinabling them in that they could do, and making all their acts void, but a menace of future evil in God's time, for that they ought to have done, but did not. And even from this commination it will follow, That if Ministers who despise knowledge and understanding, be permitted, by such as have power to cast them out, but do not; they retain their power and authority still, for the good of the faithful, until God be pleased to cast them off, and turn them out of office, though their function be not pleasing unto God.  
Ephraim (saith the Prophet) is joined to Idols; that is, 

Hos. 4.17. Sept. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. ●un. Conjunctus●●, id est, tra●●fuget a Deo vero ad falsos: River. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 adhaerens, affixus est Idolis, conjunctus aut alligatus est. Sept. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. lun. sine illum, ●. c. ti●o Ichuda 〈◊〉 cum illo 〈◊〉 ne cito, Riu. 1. nihi t●ke cum illo comu● ne●●ta. Tarnov. Nihil quiequam tibi cum 〈◊〉 sit comer. j Ab● Ne argu●● eu●● quispiam. Hos. 4.15. Sept. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. Al. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. Aqui. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, Sym. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. Hoca. Aq. & Sym. Interpretati sunt 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. i e. domum inutilem, ut Hier. abserva. Com. in Hos. ca 4. ac ipse tis assentiens, adjungit Bethel appellatam esse Bethaven, i. e. domum inutilem, ut quae nihil prosi●, sive domum Idol, ob vitulos in ea positos. Rainold. de Idolat. lib. 2. ca 4. §. 5. jer. 13.1.  
Song. 1.7.8. The word may be read, as one that covereth herself as an harlot. Gen. 38.14, 15. M●●er. or in Cant. 1.7. Or as one that covereth herself in mourning ●●v. 13.4, 5. Mic. 3.7. Bright in Lo●. Sept. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Sym. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉.   hath left the true God, and followeth false Gods, or Idols; he is glued, and sticketh fast unto them, that he will not be pulled away: Let him alone, that is, Have no fellowship or communion with him in his Idolatry. But that which is truly alleged against communion with Idolaters in their Idolatry, or false worship, is unjustly wrested against communion with a true Christian Church, in the holy things of God. The faithful must not enter into Gilgal, nor go up to Bethaven, though the Priests that there sacrificed, were of the Tribe of Levi, because Idolatry was there committed, the Office or Service there performed, was directly contrary to God's Commandment. But they were bound to go up to jerusalem, though the Priests there Ministering had entered unlawfully, and executed their Offices corruptly: because God had appointed they should appear before him in that place, and the Service there tendered was of the Lord, and by his appointment, though the Priests were ignorant, proud, profane, covetous, or the like.  
The Faithful entreate Christ, To show them where he feedeth his flock; that they might not turn aside (if the words will bear that interpretation) to the flocks of his companions, that is, the Congregations of false Christ's, and false Prophets. That which you add, by his Ministry with his Spirit, Word, Seales, and Censures: And that there they might place themselves for instruction and government, is not found in the Text, and may be received or refused, as it is understood. If your meaning be, that Christ by these means doth feed or rule his Flock, it will easily be granted. If it be this, That no Christian may lawfully sit down in any congregation, where any one of these is wanting, or not executed in all points as it ought; you speak of yourself, and not by the warrant of God's Word. For where Christ doth feed his flock, there may the Saints of God communicate, in the ordinances of Grace and Religion, though some be wanting, or not so purely performed in all points as they ought; though the Minister in some particular enter not as he ought, or be not qualified as the Word requireth.  
It is one thing to sacrifice at Bethel, 
Deut. 12.5. Ho. 4.15. ●●o. 4.4. & 5.5. 2 Cron 15.3. & 11 12, 14, 15, 16. & 13.9, 10.11, 12.  which God hath straight forbidden, where is neither God, Priest nor Law; another to worship God according to his own appointment, though the Minister be not such as he ought. I wonder, if men do not tremble thus to abuse and misalledge the holy Scripture.  
Often do the Prophets, 
Jere. 23.9. Matth 7.15.  Christ, and his Apostles (you say) forbidden men to hear those which thrust themselves into ministerial offices, not being sent of God, and from the Church. This last clause, And from the Church, is your gloss, but not found in the Texts of Scripture quoted by you. Perhaps you would cunningly insinuate, That all Ministers not called by the Church or particular Congregation, where they are to administer, be false Prophets. But this is to beg what you shall never be able to prove, not to make proof of that which is questioned. 
Bilson. Christ. Subject. part ● p. 367. The Lord when he saith, Beware of false Prophets, noteth there shall be Prophets by their calling, which shall be found false by their reaching, as S Peter also witnesseth. Pet. 2.1, 2. distinguished from Godly Teachers, not by office, but by doctrine. jer. 21.14. v 26 jere. 11.14, 15. v. 21. jere 6 14 & 8.11. jer. 23.25 v. 26. v. 32. Ezek. 13.2, 3.6, 7. 2 Pet. 2.1, 2.  Most certain it is, the Prophets, Christ and his Apostles do all warn us to beware of false Prophets? But who are false Prophets? They who are not chosen, called and ordained by the community of the faithful, where they are to Administer? No; or they whose outward calling in the Church, is somewhat defective and disordered, nay corrupt and sinful? Not so neither. But they are false Prophets, who walk with falsehood, and strengthen the hands of the wicked, that they might not return from their wickedness, who speak the vision of their own hearts, not from the mouth of the Lord. Who say to them that despise the Lord, ye shall have peace, who run when they were not sent, and prophesied when God spoke not unto them. Who prophesy false things in the Name of the Lord, the deceit of their heart, and think to make the people forget the Name of the Lord, and seduce the people with their lies: Who prophesy out of their own hearts, and follow their own spirit. The Apostle describes them to be false Prophets, who bring in damnable doctrines, contrary to the doctrine of salvation, which we have received, and denying the Lord that bought them. But this cannot be applied to them, who preach the Truth of the Gospel entirely, 
Of false Brethren, see Gal. 2.4. 2 Cor. 11.26 With Heretics and Apostates, be they Princes or private men, no Christian Pastor or people may Communicate. Bilson Christ. Subj. part. 3 p. 78. Infidels be without the Church, of their own accord, and Heretics be put out. Idem. 79. Matth 7.15. Beware of false Prophets. Assentior Chrysostomo qui poshemam vo●em non de haereti is sed de iit acripit qui vulge 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 no●lne dicebantur Tales autem es●è ut, qui corrup●am vitam specie vi 〈◊〉 & larva ●eg●●. Lucas ni sallor eosdem a●t inn●es 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, l●●k 20.20. Hers. re●● sa●●. 〈…〉. .  dispense the holy things of God, according as they have received authority from God, and labour to win men from sin unto God, though in the entrance into their office, or in the execution thereof, there be somewhat erroneous, faulty and of men. Consider then how loosely the Premises of the Scripture, and your conclusion hang together: We must not join ourselves to Congregations or Assemblies that are without Christ, so the Scripture: We must forsake Churches, and Congregations of Christ: this is your conclusion. They must be forsaken that refuse the Covenant, and worship strange Gods, so the Scriptures: We must forsake them who have received the Covenant, and worship the true God in the mediation of Jesus Christ, because they observe it imperfectly, thus you must conclude, or you fay nothing to the purpose.  
If Prophets in the Old Testament had an ordinary outward calling, the false Prophets might have a lawful external calling, as well as the true, and then God saith, He sent them not, because they preached the vision of their own heart, lying and deceitful words, to strengthen the hands of the wicked, and not the words of Truth, to turn men from sin. They were not called of God, because the work they went about, was not the Lords, but their own. But this reacheth not to godly Ministers, who preach the Faith of Christ entirely, and labour to draw men unto God; nor yet unto them, who in some sort are called of God, according to his Will (but not in favour, or because he is pleased with their Administration) to do his work, though they be neither qualified as he requires, nor dispense the holy things of God sincerely and purely as they ought. When you tell us we must beware of false Prophets, you speak the words of Scripture: but in your application of it to the Ministers of the Gospel, and Congregations in England, you rob and spoil the sense of Scripture, which is not the least degree of theft.  
The Priests many times, were no better than the false Prophets: ut the people is never forbidden to communicate with the● in the ordinances of prescribed Worship, though they must take heed to their souls, 
M●●. 15.16. M●●. 5.20.  that they be not deceived by them. The Scribes and Pharisees were blind guides, who did neither teach the way of life, nor walk therein, and yet our Saviour forbade not the faithful to hear or communicate with them in the Worship of God. He charged his Disciples to beware of their leaven, 
M●●th. 16.12. & 23.16. Luk. 12.1. Amsw in Song. cap. 1. v. 6.  and let them alone, because they were blind leaders of the blind: but so long as they preached the truth, and woshipped God aright, he never prohibited them to hear and communicate in the ordinances.  
To beware of false Prophets then, is not evermore in body to separate from them, 
A Deo ●ocati itque constitutt sunt, ut leg●●n Moses in Sy●●gugis populo prae●●gant, etc. Quale punk 〈◊〉 sunt, 〈◊〉 est recipl●●a●, si ve●o 〈…〉 cozen a●●●, i●●●●lenda 〈…〉. Pise it. in Matth. 23.2, 3. Aug. in joh. 〈◊〉 46. 〈…〉 ●●cr● nolite aud●●c, ●olite faec●e. span●, que 〈…〉. Visin. de L●●● Baptarg. desen. pag. 1691. P●●●. 5.3.7. Aug. cp. 2●●. 〈…〉 vo●abub, 〈◊〉 distern●t quotidiana, 〈…〉, quodest inimicumnom ni Christi 〈…〉 cons●●cure. Ly●● expounds this place of the false Church. T●nt. 2. p. 314. CAN S●y. §. 4. p. 61.  but not to receive their doctrine, or hearken to the devises of their own hearts. For of false prophets that teach corrupt things, and mangle the Word of life, some have standing in the house of God, and do perform the office of teachers, and dispensers of holy mysteries, whose devises we must so reject, as that we depart not from the ordinances, nor cast off that which is of God. Others set up a strange worship, which is not of God, teach their own dreams, and not the Truth of God, be set apart for real idolatry, or have no standing at all in the Church of God, and with these, we are not to communicate, because these things are not of God, nor to be performed by any calling or authority from God whatsoever. But whiles you speak of false Prophets without any distinction, you feign a new form of speech, and bring in a new doctrine.  
Solomon exhorteth to attend unto wisdom, and keep understanding, because otherwise, he may be deceived by the lips of the a dulterous woman, which drop as the honey comb. But with what face or conscience can this be applied to them who preach the faith of Christ entirely, and administer the seal of the Covenant for substance according to the pleasure of the Institutor? Or to them that be not rightly qualified, who yet are set apart to teach the truth, read the Scriptures, & dispense the Sacraments in societies, professing the true faith, and doctrine of salvation? It will be said, False teachers are Adulteresses. In some resemblance and similitude they may be so called, but Metaphorical speeches must not be over-retched. And who are those false Teachers? Not every man who is not rightly qualified for the Ministry, enters disorderly, 
Ainsw. in S●ng, c. 2.15. The taking of these Foxes, is the discovering and refuting of ●●eir errors, ●●e judging, censuring and c●sting them out of the Church. 1 Tim. 1.3.18, 19, 20. or wording them, if th●, be none of the Church. 2 joh. 10. Qui 〈…〉 de●que improvat● atque dammat●, ●●●coquc●● posti 〈…〉 est Rolioc. in 1 Theol. 5.21. C●fehill ●re●t of one Cross. pag. 25. Stay. against. Sect. 1. p. 2. Pl. pag. 22. Hen. Amsw. First Answ. &c p. 26. Now seeing such weeds flourished shortly after in the garden of th● Lord, is it not more Life for us (think you to keep that foundation of the Apostles and Prophets, on which Christ's Church is builded, th●n to build upon the bogs 〈…〉.  executeth his office remissely: nor every one that now and then mingles his own devises with the Truth of God. For any one, or all these may be found in him, who supplieth the place, and standeth in the room of a true Teacher, with whom the people of God may and aught to communicate, not in his sin, but in the true Worship of God. Sufficient hath been said of this matter before, from the example of the Priests, Scribes and Pharisees: To which this one thing may be added. That if all must go for such false Prophets, and Adulteresses, with whom it is not lawful to communicate, against whom any exception may be taken, in respect of entrance, execution, doctrine and administration, I fear there will scarce be found a Church or Ministry since the Apostles times, wherewith the Faithful might lawfully hold Communion.  
It is well known, many errors and superstitions crept into the Church, immediately after the Apostles death, and the Pastors had their hands deep in the maintenance of them. What one saith of chrysostom (as you cite him) may be said of others before and after him. He was not without his faults, His golden mouth, wherein he passed others, sometime had leaden words, which yielded to the error and abuse of others. I am not ignorant, that in his days many evil customs were crept into the Church, which in his works he reproveth not. And so much the aforesaid Author had expressed a little before; There is not any of them (saith he) that the world doth most wonder at, but have had their affections, nor I think, that you (adversaries to us and to the Truth) will in every respect admit, all that any one of the Fathers wrote. Myself were able from the very first after the Apostles times, to run them over all, and straight examining their words and assertions find imperfections in all: and thus fare the Author.  
What then, must the Faithful disclaim them all as false Prophets, and Adulteresses, and shun all Communion and fellowship with them in the worship of God? If boisterous zeal did not blind men's eyes, I should wonder, if you be not astonished at your abuse of Scripture in this matter: And when you cite Scripture allegorically in this manner, you may do well to call to remembrance, what yourself have noted out of Mr. 
CAN. Stay. §. 15. p. 135.  Knewstubs against the Heresies of N. N. pag. 61. To uphold the heresies of N. N. this is one special and principal practice, that the history, and native sense of the Word of God is altogether neglected of him, and in stead thereof, is entertained an allegorical and bastardly construction, foolish and fond distinctions, which thing utterly defaceth the certainty of the sacred Scripture, and maketh no other thing of it, than a nose of wax.  
The Apostle giveth charge to beware of dogs. 

Phillip 32. Deodat. Ital. Bible. That is, profane and impure; thus he calleth false Prophets, who taught that the righteousness and salvation of man did consist in part in the works of the Law, and imposed a necessi●●e to observe the Mosaical ceremonies. Act. 15.1. Zanch. in Ph. 3.2. Sect. de Ca●e●dis falsis Doctor. Bern. sup. Cant. serm. 33. A rotten contagion creepeth at this day through the who● body of the Church the 〈◊〉, the the perater, the more inward, the more deadly, etc. Ye be called Pastors, when indeed ye be spoilers, and would God the milk and fleece ●●d suffice you, ye thirst for blood. The Arch Priest visiteth his charge to fill his purse, he betrayethen ●ocent blood, he filleth murders, adultenes, incests, fornications, etc. Hok●● in sap. lib. lect. 1●2. The Priests or our age are like the Priests of Baal, they are wicked Angels: they resemble the Priests of D●g●n, they are priests of Prinpus, and Angels of Heb.  
〈…〉 123. D●v 〈…〉 have been brought us against Clerks, 〈…〉 Bishop's, th●● 〈…〉 not their lives according to the ●●cred Ca 〈…〉, which should be a ●●at the 〈…〉, 〈…〉.   But who are dogs? False Teachers, who did bark against the doctrine of salvation by Christ, pressed Circumcision, as necessary to salvation, were returned to their old vomit, and being formerly of Jews made Christians, were fallen back to Judaisme. And is there any Question, but we must take heed of these, and all others of the same kind? And this is that which Zanchy confirmeth, by many other Texts of Scripture, Viz. That not only the Teachers, but the Faithful must learn to know and beware of ravening wolves, blind guides, who bring not the doctrine of Christ, deny all the Articles of Faith, or some at least speak perverse things, and draw Disciples after them. But what is become of shame and honesty, when men apply this against them that preach Christ truly and entirely, and administer the holy things of God purely, by authority received from God? Or against communicating with them in the Ordinances of God, who profess the faith, are called to dispense the ordinances of Religion, because in some particular, their calling was not orderly, as it ought, or the persons endued with gifts, as God requireth. Further answer may be taken out of that which hath been spoken, to the former passages, for one answer will fit them all.  
To communicate in the true Worship of God, with Ministers no better than ignorant, idle, proud, cruel, covetous and profane Priests, no better than Scribes and Pharisees, is neither a vain worship, nor an abetting of the party in his sin, nor to rebel against the Lord, nor to commit spiritual whoredom, or to embrace the bosom of an harlot. These are great words to affright, but they are of no force to hurt, if a man will not cowardly yield without any combat. No, to communicate with such, when God called us thereunto, is to worship God aright, to reverence his ordinances, to rely on his grace, to hearken unto his voice, and submit unto his good pleasure. To such communicating he hath promised and vouchsafed his blessing, their service is acceptable unto God, because commanded by him, and they have found him graciously present to cheer and refresh them. It is without question, the Prophets, our Saviour, the Apostles, the Faithful in all ages have communicated with such in God's Ordinances, but not in their sin: And what man well advised will say of that practice, that it was either Rebellion against God, or spiritual whoredom, or vain worship? The Faithful must not communicate with those societies in mind or body, where Christ is not at all present with the presence of his grace and love, nor in those polluted Congregations, 
Rev. 18.4.  where real Idolatry is so practised, that they cannot be present, but they must partake therein: 
We have forsaken the Strumpet that made drunk the inhabitants of the earth with the wine of her fornication, and are gone out of her, lest we should be partakers in her sins, and receive of her plagues, otherwise we have divided ourselves neither from God nor his Church. Bilson Christ an. part 3. pag 19  They must not communicate with false Prophets in things of their own devising, and which they bring merely upon their own brain, and not at all from God: but if ignorant, scandalous, corrupt men, who neither please God, nor are approved of him in their Office and Ministration, in a society professing the entire Faith of Christ, do by authority dispense the Ordinances of God, the Faithful may and aught to communicate with them, if they want power to redress and amend things out of order. They must not Communicate in sin, but they may and aught to hold Communion in the exercises of Religion, with the true Church of Christ.  
The sheep of Christ hear his voice, but will not hear the voice of a stranger? 
Joh. 10.5.  But who is that stranger whom the sheep will not hear? From whom they fly both in mind and body, with whom they must hold no Communion, 
CAN. Stay. §. 11 p. 112, 113.  inward or outward? Thus fare you extend the words of our Saviour, and unless they be so meant, they conclude not what you purpose. Is every unlawful Minister this stranger? 
Deodat. Ita●. Joh. 10.1. Thiefs and robbers are the false Doctors, who thrust in themselves without a lawful calling, with false doctrine, and an evil●n ind. The true shepherd is only Christ, the rest are his servants, and not the owners of the sheep: The sheep must not rule their shepherds, but they have leave to discern strangers, and fly from thiefs and murderers. Cyp. lib. 1. Ep●st. 4. Therefore the flock, or people obeying the Lords Precepts, and fearing God, aught to separate themselves from a sinful Bishop. Bilson 〈…〉 part. 3. page. 301. 353. CAN Stay. § 3. p. 26. Jer. 23.14, 15. Acts 20.25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31.  Is every unlearned, scandalous, corrupt Minister this stranger? Is every one whom Christ calleth a thief and a robber, who enters not in by the door, but climbs up some other way, this stranger? Is every one that smiteth, but feedeth not the flock; that maketh sad the heart of the Godly, strengtheneth the hands of the wicked, mingleth the Truth of God with his own dreams, this stranger? If these be not strangers meant by Christ, much less the painful, godly, sincere Pastor, who feedeth the flock with sound and wholesome food, and leadeth them unto the waters of life? And then this passage is impertinently alleged. But all these cannot be meant according to your interpretation, for then absolutely, all communicating with them in the Ordinances of God is not forbidden, but to receive their doctrine, embrace their errors, or follow their manners, which was evermore unlawful.  
The Godly and Faithful among the Jews, might not refuse to hear the Scribes and Pharisees, when they had no power to cast them out, and yet they were thiefs and robbers, who corrupted the Law, and without question spoke most reproachful things against the way and worship of God. The godly could not be sure that the Pharisees would not deliver such things, neither did they offend in being present at the worship of God: and yet it will not follow, that a man may hear any one, or any where. Thiefs and murderers in the Church of the Jews, sprung up with them, and continued amongst them, and neither departed themselves, nor were cast out by others that had authority. In the Christian Church divers false Teachers, ravening Wolves, Antichrists risen up, 
1 Joh. 2.19. Tit. 3.10. 1 Tim 1.20. 2 Thes. 2.3, 4. Phil. 1.15.  not from among the heathen, or Jews, but in and from themselves, whereof some went out from the Church, and separated themselves, others were cast out by excommunication, and delivered up to Satan, that they might learn not to blaspheme. Others were tolerated in the Church, either because their heresies were not so pernicious at the first, or the better side had not power to cast them out, or they preached the fundamental Truths, but of evil minds. These in respect of outward order, were lawfully elected or called, but false Prophets discovered by their doctrine, not by their calling, 
When the Apostle exhorteth Timothy, not to partake in other men● sins, doth he not intimate that unfit, unable, unworthy Ministers might be ordained in the Churches, though unlawfully?  and some of them continuing in the Church, the Faithful are not forbidden to partake of the Ordinances of God, because they are present, but to beware of their errors, that they be not infected by them. But, if by strangers we understand only such as did arise from without, and brought blasphemous doctrine, directly contrary to the foundation of the Faith, or such as are justly cast out by the Church, that they might learn not to blaspheme, than the Faithful might neither communicate with them in public, nor receive them unto house, but fly from them both in mind and body. But thiefs, who lead not in by the door, Christ, who have strange voices, which the sheep acknowledge not, who bring another foundation besides Jesus Christ, 
Atha. ad solitariam vita agentes, complaineth against Constantius, That whereas the Bishops in those days were wont to be lawfully chosen by the people of the place, and sufficiently examined, and allowed by other Bishops, ad joining, and openly created in the Church, Constantius in stead of the Church, would have his ●alace succeed, and for the multitude of people, and right Assemblies (to elect) he commanded three Eunuches to be present, and three of his Spies (or Prolers) for you cannot call them Bishops; that they six in his palace, might create one Felix a Bishop. And noting what manner the Emperor and his Eunuches made, he saith, In illorum locum juvenes libidinosos, e hnieos, ne catechismo quiaem imbutos, ne● non & bigamos, & maximis crimin bus male and entes, modo aurum darent, ves●i emptorese for● ad Episcopatu summiserere. Bilson Christian Subj part 2. pag 255.  these are not to be enroled with such as teach the doctrine of Faith truly: for they are not strangers either in respect of Sect, Religion, or Laws, they are of the household of God, they serve the Lord as he hath prescribed, and walk according to his Law. And what is it to wrest the Scripture, if this be not, when that which is spoken against utter enemies of our Saviour Christ, who refused to be shepherds under him, and his Ensign, is applied to them who are furnished with singular knowledge, wisdom and utterance, teach the truth of the Gospel entirely, and lead the sheep of Christ to the waters of life, whose labours God hath blessed, whose voice the sheep hear and receive, in whose message they rejoice, and whom they follow as they teach Christ. You pretend the testimony of the learned in this matter, but let the places be examined, and they will be found, either to make directly against you, or nothing for you, as I shall have occasion to show in the next Section, and shall be done more fully, when you shall set down the words of the Authors, whereupon you build, and attempt from them to make good your conclusion. In the mean space I will forbear tediously to repeat over and over again, that such and such make nothing for you, and such and such are grossly abused and falsifyed.  
Now let us lay the Principles and Inference together, and see if they close.  
The Nonconformists complain of many gross abuses in the Ministry, in the Election, Ordination, Qualities of the Person admitted, and execution of the function; as, that ignorant, negligent, profane men are set over the flock; and non-resident, Pluralists, men of corrupt minds, who discourage the godly, and hearten the profane. But this complaint they put not up against all, but many in the Ministry. The Inference you would make upon their ground is, That it is unlawful to communicate, not only with these men, in the Ordinances of God's Worship, but even with the most learned, godly and painful, who teach the Truth, live holily, dispense the Mysteries of Godliness purely, be approved of the Congregations, and blessed of the most high.  
If I took pleasure in your vein (call it as you please) I could say, 
CAN. Stay. §. 11. p. 114.  I suspect my sight, and I ask of myself again and again, could the Treat. write so unskilfully: For if this be not a Non sequitur, than Fools cannot speak Nonsense. You may take it home, For I know not to whom it can be so fitly applied as to yourself. When this Inference is made good by Scripture, Reason, or Learned Author, I shall suspect that the Non-conformists do not walk according to their Principles; But till then, there is just ground to think, that in making such Inferences, you abuse both yourself and others. That which you add concerning the dumb Ministers out of M. Penry, 
CAN. Neces. of Sep. p. 43. Id. Neces. of Sep. Epist. to the Reader.  is besides the point, for he was no Nonconformist, but a Separatist, by your confession; and if no man of piety will plead for them, yet men of piety, learning, and judgement do, and must plead (for it is a truth) that there is not an absolute Nullity of their Ministry: and this I presume upon better advice, you will not deny, or if you do, you must not stay in the Separation, which you have made.    

SEC. II. CAN, Necessity of Separation. pag. 29, 30.  
NOne may hear, or join in Spiritual Communion with that Ministry, which hath not a true vocation and calling by election, approbation, and ordination of that Faithful people, where he is to administer: 
Id pag. 46. If their Parsons, Vicars, Parish Priests, Stipendiaries, etc. be, neither in election nor ordination made Ministers agreeable to the Word of God, then is their Ministry false, unlawful, Antichristian, and so consequently they deal with the holy things of God. CAN. Stay §. 11. pag. 113. All these affirm, That whosoever taketh upon him to preach, without a lawful sending, cometh in not by a lawful election, and holy Church ordinance, but breaketh in against order, by force and favour of men, and by humane laws, he is a Stranger, a thief, a murderer, according to Christ's sayings in Jolm 10. And thus have the old Writers expounded the places, as Iraeneus lib. 4. cap. 4 Clemens Alexan. lib. 1. Strom. Cypr. libs 1. Epist. 6. & 76. Didimus in john 10. rupert in jolm 10. & Theodoret ibid. and others.  But the present Ministry of the Ecclesiastical Assemblies of England, hath not a true vocation and calling by election, approbation and ordination of the Faithful people where they Administer. Therefore none must hear, or join in Spiritual Communion with the present Ministry of the Ecclesiastical Assemblies of England.  
Which of the Propositions the Non-conformists will deny I know not: but sure I am, they are both theirs. Howbeit (it may be) they do not so well weigh their own Principles, as they should; And hence it is, that their practice is not so strictly answerable to their Profession, and therefore do give just occasion (I speak it with grief) unto the Prelates, and their Parasites, to insinuate against them hypocritical ends, in condemning so grievously the Ministry, worship, and government of the English Church, 
CAN. Neces. separ. Epist. to the Reader. What better should we expect from them, who seek to put out the light again, which hath been by themselves chief revealed unto many. I know what I say, and have good experience of this thing.  and yet to partake in the known evils and abuses thereof. But for my part, I am otherwise minded than the Bishops in this thing, and do think, that they do of conscience condemn the state of the Church, but do not maturely consider the responsive conclusions, which follow upon their Principles. For which cause I have written of purpose this Treatise, to prove they cannot justify their Tenants against that Church, and stand members lawfully thereof.  

ANSWER.  
HANNIBAL said once (saith M. Parker) There was not so much as one in all the enemy's camp, that was called Gisco: 
In an Epist. published in the profane schis. of the Brownists. Parker of the Cross. part 2. c. y. §. 2. As for those of the Separation, who have confuted them more than we? or who have written more against them? Some things of truth they hold, with which we think it no more sin for us now to agree, than Cyprian once to agree with Novatianus in that which he esteemed right, etc. So whatsoever stir or sedition was moved by the unbelieving jews, it was imputed to the jews that were Christians, who were thought to be all one with them. Caesar. Baron. An●al. in anno 201. The impurity of the Gnostics, was drawn to the defamation of all other Christians, no difference being made between them Cicer. Parad. 2. M Sutel. tract. de disc. ca 15. pag. 165. Bell of Ch. Govern. cap. 12. pag. 151. 152. Bancroft, tract. of discip. cap. 33. pag. 430. 431. 432 Laus Querim. Eccles. pag. 62. 63. So whereas the Egyptians were diri, ventusi, fa ibundi, jactantes, vani, liberi, nova um rerum cupientes: the Christians, and all that are there dwelling, are thought to be the very same.  So may it truly be said now, Not so much as one of the Godly Ministers, that suffer in England about the Discipline, that may deservedly be called a Brownist. And the Nonconformists do no more lay the grounds of Separation, than the Reformed Churches sow the seed of Libertimisme, and Anabaptistry, which of all others they have most sound confuted, and judiciously laid open to the world, without seeking to justify aught, that elsewhere upon good reason they condemned to be evil. But it is no new thing to reproach them as the Authors of errors, heresies, or schisms, who principally laboured the suppressing of them. No man cried down the Error of the Manichees concerning a good God and an evil, so much as Austin: and yet their opinion is charged upon them that hold his opinion of absolute Predestination. The positions of the Stoics answer to the opinions of the Remonstrants concerning Free Will and power in Man: but the contrary side is burdened therewith. The grounds of the Nonconformists stand directly opposite to the special grounds of Separation, and yet they hear from some, that they be Separatists in heart, from others, that they have laid the foundation, and the Separatists build upon it, and that such as have made answer to the Separatists, do against conscience put out the light, which hath been by themselves chief revealed.  
It is true, they complain of abuses in the Church (and not to excuse humane frailty) sometimes with heat and fervour excessive, and humbly sue for reformation. But to seek redress of what is out of order, is rather to endeavour the repair of what is ruinous, than the plucking of it down. It is one thing dutifully to urge the proceeding of our Church unto perfection, another, schismatically to leave, and forsake her. Betwixt these two, there is as much difference, 
S. B. The rasing of the foundation, &c Epist. to the Reader.  as is between that child that in tender affection reproveth, and laboureth the reformation of his Mother, whom he seethe by her indiscreet behaviour to become a reproach among women; and him that under pretence of the hate of her uncomely behaviour, should pluck out her bowels, and forsake her.  
They complain of abuses remaining in the Reformation, not denying that a wonderful and gracious reformation is already made, but moving to a through and perfect reformation of what is wanting and out of order. For willingly they confess, that next unto the Lord God, every one of them is most deeply bound unto the Kings and Princes, whom he hath used as excellent instruments to deliver his Church here, out of the spiritual Egypt of Popery. 
T.C. Repl. 1 fel. 155.  This they willingly confess before men, and in their prayers daily give most humble thanks to God for; And by their earnest suit, and humble desires, which they have for further reformation, they are so fare from unthankfulness, that they desire the heap of felicity to the Church and Commonwealth.  
Which of the Prophets doth not cry out against the Priests in time of the law? Against their pride, oppression, covetousness, tyranny; that they despised knowledge, opposed the true Prophets of the Lord, countenanced impiety and profaneness, and shown themselves enemies to all goodness? Did the Prophets then, who knew what it was to work according to their own Principles, teach a necessity of Separation, or give precedents to others to separate by their example! In all ages of the Church, 
Platina in vita Marcellin. Hanc autem calamitatem, quam nostri passi sunt, a Deo permissam refert. Euseb. etc. Cypr. de duplici Marty●. Hic discrucior quod non paucos Pastores habeat ecclesia qui non solum non opponunt sua corpora adversus luporum inciersus, verum etiam ipfilupos agant, etc. Council Nic. 1. ca 2. Gratian. didst. 48 ca 1. Leo ad Afri an. Epist. 85. Grat. didst. 61. ca 5. Hieron. ad O●e an. ep. ad. Nepoti. T.C. repl. 1. pag. 41. Ambr de offic. lib. 1. cap. 50 Grat didst. 93. cap. 21. Ex quo i● Ecclesis, sicut in imperio Romano, crevit avaritia, perit iex de sacerdote, & visia de Prpheta. Bas in Asceticis. Chry. desacer.  complaints have been made against abuses of this nature by all sorts, ancient and modern, who never denied the Churches where the true faith was professed, to be the true Churches of Christ: Cyprian complains thus, Here I am grievously troubled, that the Church hath many Pastors, who not only do not oppose their bodies against the incursions of wolves, but also they themselves do play the parts of wolves, whiles they destroy the souls of the simple, they themselves serving their bellies, gain and ambition; and make merchandise of the Word of God, and adulterate it with ungodly opinions. The Counsel of Nic● makes complaint, That many things in the admission of Presbyters and Bishops was done contrary to the Rule. Leo, That the office of a Pastor, and government of the Church was committed to men altogether unworthy. Hierom reproacheth the Bishop of jerusalem, that he could, as himself boasted, make in one hour a thousand Clarks: and condemneth it in others; That Clerks run to the Bishop's suffragans certain times of the year, and bringing some sum of money, they are ordained, being chosen of none. Ambrose showeth the abuse in his time, to be this, If a man asked some of them who preferred them to be Priests, answers is made by and by, that the Archbishop for an hundred shillings ordained me Bishop. Nazianzon in Apolog. That they which handle holy things with unwashen hands, and polluted souls, are more in number than they, over whom they rule; Miseri in ●iotate, miseri in splendore. And ad Maximum. Ad Pastoralis muneris administrationem nihil contulerunt, ui 〈◊〉 quod comam quam turpiter alere studuerunt, raserunt. And in the same place: De pecumiis jam in ecclesia bellum geritus. When Basil: of an Heathen was made a Christian, he saith That he did greatly wonder at the dissensions, which were in the Church concerning Faith; and the contentions of the Governors: because every one leaving the doctrine of our Lord jesus Christ, did challenge to himself, by his own authority, certain rules and orders: Also I perceived dissensions to arise from hence, because there was no discipline, no knowledge of God, or it was perverse if any. chrysostom; Neque immeritos solum adleg● sed & idone 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. The Toledan Counsels complain, that for eighteen years, no Synod was held, Whence came gross ignorance, and corruption of the Ministers. It would be too long to set down at large the grave, sharp and lamentable complaints, that Nicholas de Clemang; Petrus de Aliaco, 
See Nichol. Clemang. speculum Eccles. Petrus de Aliaco. reformat. Eccle. Bern. in Conu. S. P. ser. 1. Heu Heu Domine Deus. Ipsi sunt in persecutione tua primi, qui videatur in Eccl sia tua primatum genere: Id. in Cant. ser. 76. Parum est nostris vigilibus, quod non servant, nisi & perdant, Gildas. See Vsser de primord. Eccles. Br●●. H●oper on the 8 Command. pag. 74 79. Whitaker. de pont. Rom. presat. ad Audito res. In such smatis remedium hoc primo inven●um est, quod ipso morbo magis pericudesum fuisse, molti virt sancti & prudentes judicarunt. Quod quamquam non statim apparuit, tamen misera experientia demceps demonstravit. Tum enim ambitio irepsit in Ecclesiam, & Episcopi caeperunt non minus de dignitate suarum sedium, quam de Christi grege cogitare, etc. Gregor. Nazianz. orat 2. pag 399. They intrude themselves unto the most holy Ministeries with unwashen hands and minds, as they say, and before they are worthy to come unto the Sacraments, they affect the Sanctuary itself, & circum sacrasanctam mensam premuntur & protenduntur, esteeming this order not an example of virtue, but a maintenance and help of life.  Bernard, and our Gildas, have published against the Ecclesiastical Governors of their times, for their ignorance, pride; luxury, riot, drunkenness, persecution of all true godliness, covetousness, rapine, contentions, brawls, simony, and what not? And since the time of Reformation, not the Inconformists only, but the godly Bishops, and Martyrs themselves, have observed, bewailed, and reproved these abuses. Father Latimer, in his Sermons generally, but in his Sermon of the Plough, is plain and large against the pomp and idleness of Bishops, who Lord it over, but feed not the Flock of Christ, muzzle the people in ignorance and profaneness, live riotously, hunt after preferment, but seek not the winning of souls unto God. Bishop Hooper complains, saying, It is great pity to see how fare that office of a Bishop is degenerated from the original in the Scripture, it was not so at the beginning, when Bishops were at the best, as the Epist. of Paul to Titus testifieth; that willed him to ordain in every City of Crete a Bishop. And as sharply and closely he censureth the Bishops of his days, for arrogating to themselves so much wit, as to Rule and serve in both States, in the Church, and in the Civil Policy, and to the contrary, professeth, That one of them is more than any man is able to satisfy; and that it is not possible that one should do both well, and that it is a great oversight of the Princes, and higher Powers of the earth, so to charge them with two burdens, when none of them, as he saith, is able to bear the least of them both. The accusations which are brought against both the Ministers and members in the Separatists Congregations are not few, nor light, nor such as can be wiped away with reproaches. All these have borne witness of the great disorders and corruptions, which have been in the Church of God, but they never deemed the society was to be abandoned, because of these great and erroneous blemishes, rather they sought the redress and reformation of what was amiss.  
If some things of man be mixed with that which is of God, as humane superiority with divine Ministry, the pure wheat with some chaffe, the holy Sacraments with rites savouring of superstition, a found Christian is not to cast away what is of God, as a nullity, fruitless, defiled, Antichristian, Idolatrous, because somewhat humane is annexed unto them, nor in defence of the good to be charged or condemned, as going cross to that which he taught against the evil. 
Aug. de fid. & bon. oper. tom. 4.4. Nos vero ad piam doctrinam pertinere arbitramur, ut & canes in ecclesia propter pacem ecclesiae toleremus. jun. animad. in Bell. contr 5. l. 1 ca 3. l. 1. ca 3. not. 24. Speaking of Popish ordination, saith, A part ad totum non procedit argumentatio: In ordinatione aliquid nihil: fac●unt, ergo nihili faciunt ordinationem. Quod Dei, quod ecclesiae in ea est, permagni facimus; quod a malo est facimus nihilt. Calvinus autem eo in lo●o agit de rutibus adventitiis solum, non de ordinatione tota simpliciter. Imposition of hands, whereby the extraordinary gifts of the Spirit were given unto Believers, was peculiar to the Apostles. Act. 8.14, 15.19.6. & vide Beza annot. major. in Act. 19 Synops. purior. Theol. disput. 24. §. 32.33. Jus pastors legends, est penes Ecclesiam, ac ●o●inde p●bi convenit cum Presbyteris. Ius eos ordinandi solis Presbyteris est propri●. CAN. Neces. of sep. c. 1. p. 8. Jun. animad in Bell. cont. 5. l. 1. ca 3. not. 9, 10. Bell. de Cler. l. 1. ca 3. §. Accedat.  If an unmeet Minister be set in office, by whomsoever the election is made, he is of men, or humane: but forthwith there followeth not a nullity of his Ministry. If a fit Minister be chosen disorderly, in that choice there is somewhat humane, but the Office or Ministry is of God. In the body we can distinguish between the substance and the sickness which cleaveth unto it; betwixt the substance of some member, and a bunch or swelling, which is a deformity, but destroyeth not the nature, taketh not away the use of that part or member.  
But what answer can be given to the argument drawn from their grounds? which Proposition in the syllogism propounded, can they deny, seeing they are both theirs?  
If both be theirs, they cannot deny them, but he that hath seen you by your writings only, knoweth by experience, if he hath made any trial, it is not safe to trust your bare saying, or confident Assertion.  
The Nonconformists disclaim the Major, as none of theirs: and the Assumption, so fare as it is true, makes nothing against them.  
First, the Nonconformists never held Ordination by the people, where he is to administer, to be necessary or essential in the calling of a Minister. For in their opinion, ordination belongeth not to the community of the Faithful but to the Presbytery, or College Ecclesiastical, and may and aught to be performed by the Presbyters of neighbouring Congregations, if they have none of their own, or not a competent number. Thus you yourself relate their Position. Moreover, every officer in the Church, must be ordained by imposition of hands of the Eldership, the whole Church joining with them in fasting and prayer.  
Secondly, They give not the sole power of Election to the community of the Faithful, but require their consent in the election, by the guidance and direction of their Governors, 
See Calvin Epist. 131. & Instit. l. 4. cap. 3. §. 15. T. C. repl.. 2. pag. 1. 196.197. jun. Eccles. 3. p. 1. Non solus judicat, sed praeeunte & moderante Clero & Presbyterio: soret enim proclive labi in illud incommodum, si populus solus eligerit. Non est autem ab ●o tantum periculum, ubi conjunctus est Clerus, & actioncan dirigit Presbyterium, praesertim consilio & auctoritate vicinorum Episcoporum ecclesiarumque accedente? jun. contr. 5. l. 1. ca 7. not. 24. Aurcolus in 4. Sent. didst. 24. art. 2. ra. 3. ea quae sunt ordi num omnes recipiunt immediate a Christo. Horb. Irenic. l. 2. cap. 11. prop. 13. pag. 179. Itaque potest cuiquam, etc. Fr. de Victor. in rel. de potest. eccle. Q 2. W E. The Church plea. §. 8. pag. 78. A dispute. par. 3. cap. 8. pag. 167. Of him who is obtruded and thrust upon a people without their own election, it is well said by Zanchius, That he can neither exercise his Ministry with a good conscience, nor yet be profitable to the people. See Fulk in Rhem. in Ephe. 4.13. As some people be of that disposition, that they know better to be governed, than to govern. Grat. de jure belli. lib. 1. c. 3. pag. 49. so it fareth with some Christians, that it is better they should be provided for, than left to provide for themselves.  and the Ecclesiastical College, to whom the Government of the Church is committed. They allow not that every small company should do as they please, or stand upon their own bottom; But as the Church is to be governed by common counsel, and consent of the Ecclesiastical College, so the election and choice of the Pastor or Teacher, is to be made by the direction and counsel of the Senate. A Pastor should not be thrust upon the people without their knowledge and approbation, neither should the people proceed therein without direction of the Governors.  
Thirdly, The Minister doth not derive his power or authority, either virtually or formally from the people, but immediately from Christ, whose servant he is, for the Church's use and benefit, in whose name he must execute his office, whose message he must deliver, whose seals he must dispense, and to whom he must give account. This is that which Franciscus de Victoria, the master of Canus affirmeth (though his words be ignorantly drawn to another purpose, I suppose you know by whom) That all Bishops do derive jurisdiction and power immediately from God.  
Fourthly, If the people have given away their power of election, or be not fit to choose, through their ignorance or simplicity, or that liberty be taken from them, they conceive it to be a maim or defect in the calling of the Minister; but this defect doth not make a nullity of the office, or acts done by virtue of that calling, which he hath: For in every true Church, where the Word of God is entirely Preached, and received, and the Sacraments for substance rightly administered, there is a true Ministry, and a true calling to the Ministry, though in some things maimed and faulty. In the Church of God, and no where else, all sound and saving truth is to be found: for the Church is the pillar and ground of Truth; and where the profession of all saving Truth, with the right administration of the Sacraments is found, there is the Church, which ordinarily cannot be had, maintained or continued, without a true Ministry, nor that without a true calling.  
The saving truth of God, 
Gratian. Decret didst. 63. cap. 22, 23.  and a true Ministry are essential to the true Church, consisting of all it parts, and partaker of the Ordinances of grace. Something of the se remain in every complete society, 
Platima in vita Benedict. 2. In the Primitive Church, the people which were Laymen, chose their Pastors, and for a long time the Bishops of Rome themselves were not chosen without the consent of the Princes, etc. and the Emperors were possessed of it as their right, ever since the days of Ch●rles. Bilson. Christ. Subject. part 3. pag. 168. Sol. jarchi. 2 Mac. 4.7, 8, 26, 27. joseph Antiq: lib. 20. cap. 18. & l. 18. cap. 4. Ctrnel. Bertram. de pol. judaic. cap. 18. Concil. Laed c. cap. 13. Non est permittendum turbis, etc. jun. animadv. in Bl●. contr 5. lib. 1. ca 7, not. 16.17.  which hath any thing of the Church, and for substance and essence, they are true in every true and lawful complete society; But as the profession of the truth may be found in all fundamental points, though mixed with many errors: so for Truth and existence, the Ministry may be lawful, though in many particulars delinquent and deficient.  
In the true Church then, there is a true Ministry, But the true Church hath continued there by the blessing of God, where the Election of Ministers hath been given away by the people, or taken from them.  
In later times, the High Priesthood was bought and sold for money, and sometimes it was made annual, that every year new Priests were created, as those Governors, whom Kings change every year: that as every man would lay out more or less money, he should obtain, or lose the Priesthood. Which may be seen in the examples of jason and Menelaus. Nevertheless, so long as the Church of the Jews continued the Church of God the Priesthood continued also.  
In the Primitive Churches, when the people had a voice in the choice of their Teachers, oftentimes there were factions in the Church, the people stood against their Guides, and the Guides against their people, and the people were divided one against another. And sometimes, either through sloth, or for peace, the Pastors left the election of Officers to the people, 
Ruffin. lib. 11. c. 10.11. Theod. hist. lib. 4. ca 6. August. Epist. 110. & 225. Socrat. hist. lib. 7. ca 34, 35. 39 Council Antioch. cap. 18. Sozom. hist. l. 2. ca 18, 19 Naziatrz. in Epit. patris. Euagr. l. 2. cap. 5.8. Theodor. l. 5. ca 23. Gratian. didst. 63. ca 11, 12. Cypr. l. 3. epist. 14. & 10. W.B. The Church. plea. §. 8. pag. 90. T.C. repl.. 2. par. 1. p. 212. Cypr. l. 2. epist. 5. & l. 4. Epist. 5. & l. 3. epist. 22. and the like he did for Optatus, Satuus Caesernius & Numidicus. Calv. Inst. l 4. c. 4. §. 10. August. epist. 223. Theod. l. 1. ca 23. Socrat. hist. l. 2. ca 19 Sozom. l. 3. c. 20. Socrat. hist. lib. 7. ca 28. W.B. The Church plea. § 8. pag. 80. Centur. 1. ca 4. Centur. 6, 7. col. 591. Centur. 2. c. 7. p. 134. 135.  and the people challenged it unto themselves, and sometimes again they took it from their people, and challenged it to themselves. But in the mids of these broils, he was accounted a true Minister, who was elected, whether by the Guides, or by the people, or by the Emperor, so he taught the doctrine of Salvation truly. And if this be not admitted, what shall be done, when the people and their Elders be divided in the choice of a fit Officer or Guide. If the people prevail against their Elders, he whom they choose is no Minister to them, because not chosen by their Suffrages: if the Elders against the people, he whom they approve is no Minister, because he wants the people's voice. And if the people dissent, they must separate and excommunicate one another, because to the one part he is no Minister, whom the other approve.  
Though Cyprian teach, That Ministers should be chosen by the people, yet this form of Election was not in some Churches in Cyprians time, who were esteemed true Churches, and true Ministers. And Cyprian himself appointed Aurelius a Reader, without advice of the Church, by the authority of his fellow-Ministers then present.  
Pinianus was ordained of the people, Elder of the Church, against Augustine's mind and will. Athanasius made Frumentius Bishop, and sent him to the Indies, he created Presbyters in other Churches, and when he came into Egypt, as many as he knew addicted to the Arian heresy, he put them out of their place, and whose Faith he tried and approved, to them he committed the Churches. The Church of Cyzicena gave this honour to Atticus, that without his consent, it could not choose a Bishop. You will not deny but the Ministry of the Church for the first, second, and third, and fourth hundred years after Christ, was true, and might be joined withal. For thus writeth a friend of yours (and as it is supposed by your aid.) It is affirmed by the Centuries of Magdenburg, that from Christ's ascension, unto Trajan's time, which is about an hundred years, every particular Church was governed by the Bishops, Elders and Deacons, and describing the state of Christian Churches, from Trajan's reign unto Severus (that is, from the year of Christ 100 to 195) thus they writ, The order of Government was popular, for all Churches had equal power of teaching purely the Word of God, administration of the Sacraments, excommunication of heretics and wicked persons, losing the penitent, the election and ordination of Ministers, and the deposition of them again for just cause. And even unto Constantine's time, The Primitive purity of Church Government was not yet deflowered, with the dregs of man's invention. 
●ig●em. in Apoc. 12. pag. 505. 506.  Neither had Satan brought in Prelatical pride into the sheepfold of the Lord; but Pastors looked every one to the health of his own flock. And a little after he citeth Epiphanius, 
●. ●. Ibid. pag. 90.  Hierome, Ambrose, Cyrill, Hilary, and Gregory Nazianzene, as making for him in the matter of choosing Ministers. But most certain it is, within this space of time, many things were done, in the election and ordination of Ministers, which are directly cross to that which you require as essential in his calling, 
See jun. eccls. l. 3. cap. 1. See S●crat. l. 4. 〈◊〉. 〈◊〉 21. Gr●e. 16, 17. etc. 35. Gr. lat. 29. & ca 36. Gr. ca 30. lat. Sozom. l. 6. ca 18.20. Evagr. p. 2. c. 8. Socr. hist. 13. l. 4. c. 10.33. & Theo. l. 4. c. 6. Ambr. offic. l. 1. Bills. Christian Sub. part 2. pag. 28 2. Sozom. l. 7. cap. 8. Socrat. h●st. l. 5. ca 8. Just in Novel. Inst. 223. cap. 28.9. Concil. To●●●an. ca 2● Greg. epist. l●b. 40. ca 78. To Constantia the Empress. The Bishop of Salona was ordered, neither ●, nor any responsarie witting thereof; which thing was never attempted under any of the Princes, your predecessors, etc. Yet I obeying their grace's Precepts, did from my heart remit unto the said Maximus, this his presumption, as freely, as if he had been ordered by myself, etc. Concil. tom. 2. Concil. Parisien. can. 8.  if at any time you can prove that all things were observed; which I do not believe.  
Ambrose himself was chosen Bishop, when he was only Catechumenus, before he was baptised; so that he was constrained to teach that which himself had not learned; yesterday catechised, to day a Bishop. The Election in all things not to be approved as consonant to the rule (for the Canons were strong against it, and Saint Paul seemeth not willing that a novice should be a Bishop) but never thought or esteemed to be none at all. Of the election of Nectarius, see Sozomene and Socrates. justinian ordained, If any man build a Church, or house of prayer, and would have Clerks to be planted there, if he allow maintenance for them, and place such as be worthy, they shall be ordained upon his Nomination. And the Toledan Council decreed. That as long as the founders of Churches do live, they shall be suffered to have the chief and continual care of the said Churches, and shall offer fit Rectors to the Bishop to be ordained: And if the Bishop neglecting the founders shall presume to place any others, let him know, that his admission shall be void, and to his shame, but if such as they choose be prohibited by the Canons as unworthy, then let the Bishop take to promote some whom he thinketh more worthy. In these particulars, the consent of the people is too much abridged, as in some other particulars they took too much upon them, or they gave their right away, when yet the calling of the Minister, or the office whereunto he was called in those cases, was not a nullity. In many things (saith the Council of Paris, which was the complaint of the Nicene Council long before) the old custom is neglected, and the decrees of the Canons are broken. But the Ministry of the Word, and Sacraments was not made void thereby.  
The godly learned, consonant to the Scriptures, have evermore distinguished betwixt an error in admission into an office, and a flat nullity of the office itself. The Minister's election into his office, 
Neque tamen ubique ea in parte felix fuit Ecclesia: alicubi enim haeretici locum docendi adepti sunt: alicubi etiam omissa accurata diligentia, invocatione & electione, minus idonei rerum habenis sunt potiti, ut Irenaeus ad Victorem scribens testatur. Illiric. cate-log. test. lib. 2. tit. Eccles. Gubern. Hatina in vita Dam●f 2. Adeo enim inolevera● hic mos, ut jam cuique ambitioso liceret Petri sedem inv dear. Id. in vita Benedict. 4. Vbi cum ipsis opibus lascivire caepit Ecclesia Dei, versis ejus cultoribus a severitate ad lisciviam, etc. T C. repl. 1. pag. 23. Ibid. Leo. Epist. 40. Concil. Ni●●●. 2. August. oper brev. collat. cap 5. & ●i. 2 coner ep●set Parmen. ca 13. Georg. P●nce An●t sol. 66.  aught to be according to the Rules of the Word: before he enter into the Ministry, he should be blameless, apt to teach, sound in Faith; and much more is he to approve himself to be such a one in the execution, considering that falls in the execution are much more dangerous to the Church, than before. But defects in the election do not make the calling itself utterly unlawful. If one blame-worthy be elected or tolerated after, he is not to be reputed as one that ministers altogether without a calling. Therefore the Non-conformists never taught that the Minister is not to be heard, or that we must not hold communion with him in the Ordinances of Worship, who is not elected and ordained by the society where he is to administer; though they maintain the consent of the people to be essential to the full complete call of a Minister to that place and people. Thus they do profess in answer to this and such like accusations. Where (saith T.C.) do they reason thus, The Word of God is not preached, because the Mnisters are not rightly proved and elected, etc. Is it all one to say it is not purely preached, & it is not truly preached, etc. They nver said, that there is no Ministry in England, nor yet do ever conclude, that there is no Word, nor Sacraments, nor Discipline, nor Church.  
Herein they affirm or teach nothing, but what the godly learned in all ages have acknowledged. Anatolius consecrated of Dioscorus, was approved of Leo and Tharasius. The Orthodox Fathers professed, so the Donatists would return to the Catholic, true and Apostolical Faith or Doctrine, they would not disallow their Bishops, that they might understand (saith Augustine) that Catholics did not detest Christian consecration, but humane error. We use this moderation (saith George Prince Anhalt) That they who are called forth to Parochial offices, if they promise that they for the time to come, will preach the Word purely, and administer the Sacraments, according to Christ's institution, we receive them, Horumque contenti vocatione, 

See Grat. Decret. 2 part. ca 2. Qu. 7. ca 8.18, 19, 20. &. ca 1. qu. 1. ca 52. Socrat. hist. l. 1. ca 9 Art. Smal. par. 3. art. 10. Stay. §. 11. p. 133. Par. in Heb. 5.4. & Stay. §. 4. p. 30. Par. in Rom. 10.14, 15. Legitima autem vocatio ecclesiae est, quae in quâvis ecclesiâ publica authoritate ordinis causâ ad aedificationem instituta. Dan. in 1. Tim 5. pag. 363.364. & pag. 343. Stay. §. 4. pag. 30. & §. 11. pag. 113.  
For. Iren. l. 2. cap. 11 prop. 13. tit. de Heretic.  ad agnoscimus de omnibus clericis haereticis, quoad jus liciti exercitii, & quoad alios u●ab corum communione abstincant, & cis non obediant: sed non est accipiendum de onmibus haereticis quoad valorem exercitii in Sacramentorum administratione: licet iniustae eorum censurae, etiam ipso iure nullae sint.   & muneris demandati commissione, ordinationem & manus impositionem non iteremus. So Art. Smal. Si. Episcopi suo officio recte fungerentur, & cur am ecclesiae & Evangelii gererent, etc.  
Pareus is praised by yourself, as an interpreter one of a thousand, and oft cited by you in this matter, as one that condemneth the hearing of them that are unlawfully sent. But according to Pareus. He is lawfully sent, who is called, according to the order which is instituted by public authority in every Church, for order sake, and to edification. Danaeus sharply taxeth the manner of calling Ministers, which be conceived to be in use in England, and is again and again alleged by you in this question: but he doth admonish withal, that we must distinguish between a calling maimed, and none at all, Ex his autem omnibus (saith he) apparet quam nulla sit, vel non legitima eorum verbi Dei Ministrorum, vel ecclesiae Pastorum vocatio, qui solius regis, vel reginae, vel patroni, vel episcopi, vel Archiepiscopi authoritate, diplomate, bullis, jussu & judicio fit vel eligitur. Id quod dolendum est, adhuc fieri in iis ecclesiis, quae tamen purum Dei verbum habent & sequuntur, veluti in media Anglia. Nam Anglos homines alio qui sapientissimos, acutissimos, & pientissimos, in istis tamen papisticae idololatriae, & tyrannidis reliquiis agnoscendis & tollendis, scientes prudentesque caecutire mirum est. Itaque praeclare sentiunt, qui omnem illam chartulariam & episcopaticam curionum & pastorum Ecclesiae creandorum rationem, item ex solo episcopi consensu, & diplomate ministrorum verbi caelestis vocationem, approbationem & inaugurationem damnant, tollendamque ex reformata ad Dei verbum Ecclesiâ censent: quòd ordo Dei verbo praescriptus in ordinatione hujusmodi personarum sit praetermissus, ac violatus, sicut perspicue apparet. Denique & Senatui Ecclesiastico & populo Christiano jus omne suum atque suffragium misere sit hac ratione & in hoc genere vocationum ecclesiasticarum ademptum, & in unum quendam Episcopum magnâ tyrannide atque abusu translatum. Dominus Deus talibus corruptionibus, quae adhuc in Ecclesiis ipsius supersunt, & defenduntur, mederi magna sua misericordia dignetur & velit, quae tandem certè magnam ecclesiae Dei ruinam secum trahent & ipsum sacrosanctum verbi ministerium reddent efficientque vel mercenarium, vel omnino contemptibile & abjectum. Quod Dominus avertat.  
una modo Quaestio superest in hoc argumento, Nimirum quid de corum administratione sit sentiendum, qui non sunt legitime vocati, atque utrum iis sana conscientia adhaerere debeamus? In quâ certe distinguendum est, Aut enim est omnine illegitima vocatio ejus, qui ecclesiam aliquam administrat, vel non est omnino illegitima, sed tantum ex parte. Illegitima omnino est ea, in qua omnia Dei verbo praescripta, sunt praetermissa vel violata, ut si quis seipsum intruserit privatâ authoritate. Non omnino, sed tantum ex parte illegitima est ea, in quâ tantum quaedam ex illis non observata fuerunt, sed praetermissa. 
T.C. to his Sister An. Stubs. This is the stone that you often, or rather always stumble at, That if there be any thing wanting in the Church, which the Lord hath required, that in stead you should thereof conclude, that the Church is with us imperfect; you conclude it is no Church at all. Whereas in the constitution of a man's body, some parts are required to the being of a man, as the Head, heart, etc. and some to comeliness, as hands, etc. So it is in the body of a Church: some things are required to the being of a Church, and other things to the beauty and perfection of it. If it be not of the being of a Church, always to have a Ministry, much less is it of the being of the Church, always to have the free choice thereof.  Ergo cujus omnino illegitima vocatio est, is certè pro privato habendus est, ac hujusmodi vocatio pro nulla. Itaque neque sacramenta conferrè potest, neque reliqua negotia ecclesiae gerere, & quae gessit pro nullis habentur, nisi fortasse esset extraordinaria ejus vocatio, id est, quae signis testimoniisque certis a Deo confirmata esset. Solaenim propagati Evangelii & fructus qui inde multus emergit, consideratio non confirmat hujusmodi omnino illegitimam vocationem, utique neque faetus enatus illegitimam copulam, quae intercessit inter adulteros. Vitium autem illud tolli potest, si postea ordine & legitime vocetur is, qui primum illegitime in Ministerio versabatur. Qui autem ex partetantum illegitime est electus & vocatus, veluti si per Simoniam quis munus adeptus est, & non legitimo populi vel Senatus ecclesiastici consensu, consensu tamen gradum obtinet, non est habenda pro omnino nulla hujusmodi vocatio, sed vitium illud est corrigendum. Itaque isti Sacramenta conferre possunt, quia utcunque non omnino veram & satis legitimam vocationem habeant, habent tamen aliquam. Sic Scribae & Pharisaei in cathedra Mosis sedebant. Sic Caiaphas in Pontificatu summo crat, quem pretio redemerat. Itaque exemplo & Apostolorum & Christi ipsius, qui eos monuit & reprehendit, non autem secessionem a corpore Ecclesiae fecit, ab iis nos segregare in alium caetum non debemus, nec a toto Ecclesiae corpore (Jd enim esset Donatistarum haeresin revocare) sed pacem Ecclesiae, quantum in nobis est, colere nos oportet, etsi illud vitium quod in eorum personis & electione inhaeret, damnare oportet, & quantum possumus tum emendare, tum etiam emendatum velle.  
Hac ratione fit, ut etiam a sacrificulis Papisticis collatus Baptismus non sit in Ecclesia Dei repetendus, & pro nullo habendus. Etsi enim in Ecclesiae Dei illegitimam vocationem Papistici Sacrificuli habent, tamen ex consensu populi habent aliquam. Est autem aliud (ut ait August.) 
August. contr. Parmenian. l. c. 13.  aliquid prorsus non habere, aliud autem aliquid perniciosè habere; aliud autem aliquid salubriter habere. Quod tertium solum nobis eligendum est. Sed tamen, uti Magistratus vitio creatus, Magistratus tamen est propter populi consensum, 
Lib. 5. the l●ng Latin.  quemadmodum docet Varro: ita isti Sacrifici, etsi vitio creati sunt Episcopi & Presbyteri, ut 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, potius quam 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, sint meritò appellandi, tamen quadantenus Presbyteri sunt & Episcopi, praesertim apud eum populum qui in eo consensit. Thus fare Danaeus, whose testimony I have rehearsed at large, that every man may see with what fidelity you quote Authors, 
1 Admonit. p. 1. CAN. Neces. of sep. c. 4. §. 2. p. 173.  as making for you. You cite out of the admonition, that the Non-conformists complain, That they have not scarce the face of a Church. But this accusation, long since hath been answered, that in saying the face of the Church doth not so much appear (for so the whole process of their book doth declare, that they mean when they say, That we are scarce come to the outward face of the same:) 
T. C. repl.. 1. p. 175. Albeit I have showed how untrue it is, that the admonition affirmeth, that there is no Church in England, yet I cannot pass by the secret Philosophy, whereby Mr. Doctor would prove that the Authors of the admonition affirm it T.C. repl.. 1. p. 23. T.C. repl.. 1 p. 51. & 2. repl. par. 1. p. 369. Hos. 4.6. CAN. Neces. of Sep. p. 9 & 31. T.C. repl.. 2. par. 1. p. 273.  they grant that we have the true Church of God: but that for want of those ordinances which it should have, and through certain the deformed rags of Popery, which it should not have, the Church doth not appear in her native colours, and so beautiful, as it is meet she should be prepared to so glorious an Husband, as the Son of God.  
Master Cartwright severely reprehendeth the abuses of the Ignorant Ministers, which in respect of the place which they occupy, are Idols: because they stand for that, and make show of that, which they are not: and thereupon he addeth, admit you them as often as you will, the Lord pronounceth, that they shall be no Ministers to him, which have no knowledge. This you cite many times. But in two things, Master Cartwright explaineth himself: first, That through ignorance of that which they do, some of them may be good men, and secondly, that his meaning was to note, how unworthy they are, as of the office, so of the name of a Minister of the Gospel; not to make void their Ministry? such as it is, in the administration of the Sacraments, which faith he, I confess, as in the Popish Priest's Baptism, for that they be the public officers appointed thereto, although unduly administered, to be the holy Sacraments of God.  
Out of Master Brightman, 
B●ight. in Apoc. 3.  you make a large discourse of the base and shameful beggarliness of the Clergy; as that the Curates are both in very deed, and in all men's account, a company of beggarly fellows, and those that by means of their more full purses, walk more lustily, they run up and down, bribe, impudently, importunately beg, and flatter, 
CAN. Necess. of Sep. p. 19, 20.21.  to compass Ecclesiastical promotions, etc. But you tell us not, how he doth immediately after, in many words, and with strong reasons, consonant to the Non-conformists Principles, disprove and censure your Separation, as wicked and ungodly, which because you omit, I will present unto the Reader. Sed nunquidergo (saith he) destituti sumus ab omni bono? nequaquam; sed gemino adhuc fruimur electis salutari: quorum primum est, introitus Christi ad ●os qui aperiunt, Secundum suavissimum, eorundem apud Christum accubatio. Illud est dulcissimum solatium recipiendi Christum, quod percipiunt Sancti, quoties ad verbum praedicatum aperiri corda per fidem opera Spiritus sentiunt. Tunc enim ingreditur & nobiscum caenat, 
Parker of the Cross p●t 2. cap. 9 § 2. pag 113. The second slander of the ceremonies ●ccuseth us for Donatists, whom the Anabaptists ●●vive, with either of whom have we to do? For besides that we make no Separation, as they did then, and there do now we are as for both from h●ir judgement, and from their practice, as our ●●●sers, etc. The first position of the Donatists was, That the Church is pure, without spot, and without wrinkle in this life, and whereas Christian Churches tolerated famous men, advanced also one Caecilan, accused of re●a, se, they held it their duty to separate from them, as being no true Churches. 〈◊〉 see here a perfect image of the Brownists, and of the Anabaptists, but not so much as any li●●ament of any English Protestant Preacher, that is desirous of reformation.  impertiendo seipsum benignissimè & jucundissime; quemadmodum quidem Zachaeum cupientem illum videre, & in Sycomorum ascendentem descendere jussit, & sibi parare apud se hospitium. Luk. 19.5, etc. Nec 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 caenat, qui sic amplectentibus eum hoc iis tribuit, ut filii Dei fiant. Joh, 1.12. Ille vicissim nos excipit, ut un● cum eo caenemus, quoties integris animis accedimus ad Sacramentum caenae. In qua perfidem nos carne sanguineque suo pascit, lautissimis deliciis, supra omne quod vel dici vel cogitari potest. Quo sensu dictum est apud Lucam, cap. 13.29. Tunc venient ab Oriente & Occidente & Borea & Austro, & discumbent in regno Dei, i. e. homines ex omnibus oris ad Evangelium confluent, amplectentur doctrinam regni, veréque Christi participes fient, cujus pignora capient, Panem & Vinum, discumbentes ad ejus mensam in c●lebrandâ Sacrâ caenâ. Loquitur enim de vocatione Gentium, qu●rum fidem & ascensionem in totam veritatem per un●m sacramentalem actionem designat. Hos jam convivas Christus vocaret, cum interin, Judaei, de quibus agitur in illâ parabola, prorsus a ratione salutis abhorrerent, uti factam jam vidimus per multa secula: Quo pertinet etiam illud, quod ibidem afferunt exclusi Judaei, postulantes sibí aditum, propter pristinam familiaritatem edendi bibendique in ejus conspectu, supra. V 26. q. d. Nos saep●, Domine, communicati mensâ tuâ hilare convivium tecum agitavimus, eden do ex tuis sacrificiis: an fores nunc contra nos obserabu? Haec enim ratione Iudaeis idem erat cibus sacrificiorum, quod panis & vinum nobis. Neque tamen haec ita sunt accipienda, quasi gaudium electorum finibus hujus vitae circumscriberetur, sed quia caena quae peragitur in terris, est pignus aeterni convivii in caelis. Haec igitur docens duplex adhuc & ingens bonum in Anglicanae Ecclesia residere, Praedicationem nimirum verbi, & legitimam Sacramentorum administrationem. In quibus utrisque se Christus suis impertit, mutuum convivium cum eis celebrans, ipse primum per auditionem a nobis exceptus, deinde caena sui corporis nos vicissim excipiens. O nos igitur sordidissimos, quoties a verbo audiendo refugimus, Christum enim convivam respuimus. O nos impios contemptores, quoties recipiendo Sacramento cum fratribus nos subducimus: Christum enim vocantem ad Caenam spernimus. Sed haec adiiciuntur in singular solatium piorum: Etenim qui non trepidarent & de fugiendo quamprimum ab hac Ecclesiâ cogitarent; cum audirent exosam esse Christo conditionem ministrerum, quos brevi non resipiscentes ev●miturus sit ex ore, nisi verbis ipsius Christi certiores fierent de suâ cum co communicatione? Laus igitur tibi, mitissime Agne, qui fores occlusas contra offendens, non statim te proripis furore percitus, nosque pro meritis omni ratione salutis orbas, sed luculentam adhuc tui copiam relinquis omnibus, qui tibi per verbum pulsanti aperiunt, & suavissimam tuam invitationem per Sacramenta non spernunt: Igitur scelestus & blasphemus est corum error, 
Parker de polit Eccl. lib. 1. ca 14. Quo presented cum Anglia ●●●ba vitae aeternae ●a●eat. joh 6.68. Ibid. Non in ●urid● jectione, sed i● fundament ipsius elemolitione separatio dunt axat licita. J●id. Aquibus vos separate? 1 Tim. 6.3.5. Ac loquitur Paulus de fund● 〈◊〉 corruption doctrinae ill us quae est secun. pietatem. Separavit Discipu●os Paulus? Act. 19.9.28. Athae separatio a judaeis erat ipsa Evangelii fundament blasphemantibus. Postremò siparationem illam 〈◊〉 praec pitur. 1 Cor. 5.11. Psal. 17.4. 2 Pet 28. 2 Tim. 3.5. At nulla in ●is Script● locis 〈…〉 privata praecipitur, quae samiliaritate abstinct mal●feri●torum hominum 〈…〉 Nullam igitu separationis vestrae in Scriptures, a● exemplum piorum homin●m, aut precept● ophetarum & Apostolorum ●x●at, etc.  qui sic ab ha● ecclesia deficiunt, quasi Christus hinc prorsus exularet; nec ulla spes salutis manentibus esse posset. Cogitent hic Christum convivantem cum suis. An pudebit eos illic discumbere, ubi vident Christum non pudere? An illo sanctiores & mundiores erunt? Sed quare se non convincunt suo ipsorum usu? Non possunt inficiari, quin prius in Christum creded runt, quam fecerunt a nobis divortium: unde haec fides? Anon ex praedicatione in nostra Ecclesia? Numquid ergo praedicare quis potest nisi mittatur? Rom. 10.13, etc. Quid ergo verbum propter labem aliquam externae vocationis tam perverse respuunt, cujus vim divinam in cordibus sentiunt? Etiamsi fructus ipse non magis culpâ liberat depravationes nostras, quam vera proles adulterium. Nec igitur nobis in iis acquiescendum est, nec iis. a nobis propter aliquos naevos deficiendum. Quamobrem redite ad unitatem Ecclesiae, quae vos genuit & aluit. Si fugiatis hunc Christum, qui cum electis in nostris caetibus caenat, ac eos vicissim excipit, profectò nusquam invenietis. Interim cogitemus etiam nos, quantum nobis ipsis malum accersimus, qui mordicùs retinendo superstitiones nostras, fratres in tantum periculum coniicimus.  si quid momenti habet, quod olim confirmavit ipsa veritas, praestaret hujusmodi hominibus suspensa mola asinaria in collis, demergi in profundo maris. Matth. 18.6. Vtrisque sanitatem mentis precor.  
Here we see the Non-conformists agreeable to the Scripture, sound reason, the consent of all Antiquity, and their own Principles do plainly distinguish betwixt a maim or defect in the calling of a Minister, and no calling at all: that it is great ignorance, or (to speak most favourably▪) inconsiderateness to charge them, as if they went against their own Principles, in holding Communion with the Churches of England in the ordinances of God's worship.  
And if haste had not blinded, 
Robinson against Bern. reasons discuss. p. 285.  this you might have observed out of the Separatists themselves. There is (saith one speaking of Baptism) in this point a further consideration to be had, unto which both the Scriptures, and our own experience do lead us: namely, that as the Lord hath his people in Babylon, his I mean, both in respect of election, and of personal sanctification: so hath he for their sakes there preserved (notwithstanding all the Apostasy and confusion which is found in it) sundry his holy truths and ordinances, amongst which Baptism is one. But if his ordinances be preserved, or any one of them true for substance, of necessity some truth of Ministry, whereby those ordinances be administered, must be preserved also.  
It is an injury to the people (as the Non-conformists hold) 
Whitak, de pont. Rom. contr. 4. qu. 1. cap. 1. Si velimus Christum ipsum respicere, fuit semper ecclesiae regimen monarchicum, si ecclesiae Praebyteros, qui in doctrina & disciplina suas partes agebant, Ar●stocraticum: si totum corpus ecclesiae, quatenus in electione episcoporum & presbyterorum suffragia ser●bat, ita tamen 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 semper Praesbyteris servaretur, Democraticum. Dan. in 1 Tim. 5. pag. 352.  that a Minister should be thrust upon them against their wills, or whom they never saw, nor heard of. But if the people be few, simple, apt to be deceived, unable to judge of the fitness of a Minister, they stand in need of direction, not only from their own Elders, but from other Churches. The practice of the Apostles will confirm this: for sometimes men were propounded unto the Church to be chosen, and sometimes the choice was wholly left unto them. And was not this for our direction, that more liberty may be given, where the danger is less, and more caution and restraint used, where the danger is apparent, that if they be left unto themselves, either an ill, or an unfit choice shall be made? In reason it is evident, for the child's consent is required in marriage, and the more able he is to choose for himself, the more liberty may Parents grant him in his choice, but if he be not able, or less able, the more watchful must they be over him; and so in this matter.  
The Presbyters are to go before the people in the examination, 
Heb. 18.7. Tert. in ●pol. c. 39  approbation and designment of a man fit for the Ministry: for they are guides, to whom the chief care and direction of things Ecclesiastical doth belong. As for the people, it is not their office, and for the most part, they are unable to judge of those things. To the people therefore it pertaineth only to give their consent to him that is chosen, or to show their reasons why they cannot approve of him, who is propounded, but no testimony of Scripture, no example, no reason teacheth, 
Kuclin. Catech. Hollant. de legit. ●ocat. Minist. Th. 10. Pleb●damus p●testatem propanendi si quas habet●e usa●ion●s ca●sas.  that the whole business should be committed to the desires and requests of the whole and sole multitude.  
The consent of the people is not required to the common election, whereby a good, godly, learned, fit Man was chosen to the Ministry, but to the singular election of a Minister, whereby he is chosen to be set over this or that congregation. Or if that expression be liable to some exception, 
jon. animad● in Bell co●●. 5. l. 1. ca 3. not. 3. & ca 7 ●ot. 7. Ibid. not 24.26.  The consent of the people is not required in this, Whether such a man be fit for the Ministry and meet to be set apart for the work of the Lord: but whether he be fit or meet to be their Minister, by whom they may be edified, and builded up in Faith and holiness. Of the former, they have no calling or right to judge: but in the latter they have great interest.  
Brotherly society requireth, that we mutually admonish, exhort, reprove and comfort each other, as occasion is offered, and when need requireth, it is the duty of neighbour-Churches to lend help to their brethren, in the choice and election of their Minister. 
jun Eccles. l. 3. ca 〈◊〉.  For if Churches have not fit men amongst them for the Ministry, nor able men to make choice for themselves, they are to be helped in love, without prejudice to their liberty, and not to be discarded and cast off as unworthy the name of a Church: When the Scripture willeth, that one should admonish another, it is not only a commandement to every singular man towards his fellow, 
Heb. 3.13. Rom. 15.14. Rom. 12.12 Car●w. repl.. 2. par. 1. p. 23 1.  but also to one whole company towards another society. St. Paul, when he teacheth that all the faithful are members of one mystical body of Christ, who ought to have a mutual care one of another, laid the foundation of this policy. Bellar asketh, Quo jure unus populus episcopum alterius populi eligere potest? Junius answereth; 
Bellar. de Cl●r. l. 1. c. 7. jun. Ibid. cap 7. not. 13. & eccld. 3. c. 1. Not 24.  Certè charitatis jure & communionis sanctorum: nam populus infidelis ipse non potest eligere, utpote nondum vocatus, sed postea vocandus ad Christum. And a little after, to Bellarmine, objecting the dangers which may follow in popular elections, he answereth. The danger is not so great, ubi conjunctus est Clerus, & actionem dirigit Presbyterium, praesertim consilio & auctoritate vicinorum Episcoporum & Ecclesiarum accedente. And after that, Et boni vicini quoque accedant ex ordine, 
Not. 27.  & fratres alti ex communi officio charitatis, si quando opus est, prout Ambrosium fecisse Nediolanensi Ecclesiae narrat Theodor. hist. lib. 4. cap. 7.  
In the Primitive times, one Church might elect and choose a Pastor for another, and the Governors of one Church were chosen by the confent and suffrage of others. Ignatius writeth thus to the Philadelphians, It behoveth you as the Church of God, to choose a Bishop. Of what Church would Ignatius have the Philadelphians to choose a Bishop? Not of their own, 
The Church of Christ was guided by the common con●en●, and mutual agreement of both parts, as well East as West, as a pears in the case of Athanasiu● 〈…〉 Arian. Haec quidem Aegyptii ad omnes & ad episcopum Roman●● I●l 'em scrips●●e. 〈◊〉 apol. 2. Sozom l. 3. c. 7.10, 11. Ignat. ad 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. Theod. l. 2. ca 4. Basil. Ep. 48. 〈◊〉 Athan. & ●1. occident 〈…〉 & 69. 〈◊〉 & Gallis & 70. Gall. et Jtal. ep●se. & 74. occident. ep se. See 〈◊〉 〈…〉 Or to fend some sufficient legate to heal the breach that was made, and quench the flame that was kindled in his Church at Antioch. 〈…〉 Govern. ca 7. pa. 76. 〈…〉 13. Cyyrian meant this of such mutual a●d and concord, as might profit the Church, and well beseem the servants of Christ, but allows not that men should run to 〈◊〉 for help, against the judgement and acts of their Pastors. Cypr. 〈◊〉 Epist. 3. & 4.  for in the beginning of his Epistle, he greatly commendeth the Bishop which they had already. But he exhorteth them to elect a Pastor of the Church at Antioch, as the words before going do make it evident. All Bishops (saith Cyprian) sunt mutuae comcordiae glutine copulatae, that if any one hold heresy, the rest should help: and therefore he moved Stephanus the Pope to write to the Bishops in France, that they should depose the Bishop of Arles, and to the people, that they should choose another in his room. 

Theod. l. 5. c. 23. Cypr. l. 4. epist. 8. See jun. Eccles. l 3. c. 1 Amb epist. 82. See what Socrates reporteth of the election of Chrysost. Socr. hist. l. 6. ca 2. Theod. hist. l. 4. c. 6 See Theod. bust. l. 5. c. 8. Sozom. l. 7. c. 8. Socr. l. 6. c. 2. jun. eccles. l. 3. c. 1.  
Erat sanetum talis politia in Ecclesia, sicut membrorum in uno corpore, ubi omnia uni compatiuntur, prespuiunt & medentur. Illitici cattle. test. lib. 2. p. 109.   Theodoret testifieth, In the ordination of a Bishop, All the Bishops of a Province ought to be called together: Cornelius, Bishop of Rome, was confirmed of the Bishops of afric. Gregorius Presbyter, in the life of Nazianzene, affirmeth of the Bishops of Macedonia and Egypt, that they contradicted the election of Nazianzene, because he was made Bishop before they came: Ambrose writeth, That his election was confirmed of all the Bishops of the East and West: and Theodoret, That Valentinian the Emperor confirmed it also.  
Election therefore was not ever made by the particular congregation, where the Pastor or Teacher was to administer, but other Churches, and specially the Guides, by common consent were called to assist the Church in that weighty business. And this the Non-conformists judge not only lawful, but meet, expedient, necessary in some cases. And therefore in many particulars, they except against the proposition, as none of theirs, and against your confident assertion, that you were sure the propositions were both theirs, when as it is neither found in them, nor in any writer, ancient or modern, nor in the holy Scriptures.  
And when you peruse the testimonies alleged, 
Rhemists' annot. in joh. 10. §. 1.  be judge yourself, whether you did not grossly mistake, or abuse your Reader, when you cite the Rhemists, as if they pleaded for the Parochial election of a Pastor, as only lawful.  
As for the Assumption, It is true, the Ministers of the Church of England are not ordained by the particular Congregations, where they administer, nor is it necessary to a true and entire calling, that it should be so. That they be not approved of the particular society, is false in many of them: for they are chosen by their consent, to be their Ministers, though not absolutely to the Ministry itself. And in case they be not so called, it is a maim and defect, 
Parker de polit. Eccl. l. 1. c. 14. Deducere quidem conantur illi ex majoribus nostris minores quasdam, sed & absurdas & inconsequentes. Neque enim si necessaria disciplina sit, & in verbo Dei tradita idcirco, separatio sicubi corrumpatur, sacienda s●atim est, nulla connexionis vi hoc porisina sequitur.  which should be reform, whether it be through the ignorance of the people, or the Laws of the Kingdom, or the pride and covetousness of them that thrust themselves into that calling, or neglect of Patrons, or what else soever: But this maim doth not make a nullity of their calling, nor the Word and Sacraments dispensed by them to be ineffectual. For in every Church where the doctrine of salvation is sound and entirely preached and professed, the calling of the Ministry is for substance true and lawful. The Nonconformists therefore in reproving the abuses of the Ministry and yet holding communion with the Church of England in the ordinances of worship, 
See Calvin. Instit. l. 4. c. 1. §. 12, 13, 14, 15, etc.  do walk according to their own Principles, the doctrine and practice of the Churches of God in all ages, and direction of the holy Scriptures.  
The Non-conformists reprove the tumults of the people in election, without the direction of the Presbyters, 

Whitak. de pont. Rom. contr. 4. qu. 1. c. 2 p. 16. I●a v. admissa est populi multitudo, ut vitaretur omnis 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, ne ecclesia esset 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. ut Act. 19.32.  
Bilson. perpet Gou. Epist. to the Read. Right Apostolic Bishops were such as were left or sent by the Apostles to be Pastors of the Church, and Governors of the Presbyteries in every city that believed, so long as they ruled well: and in their stead, as their successors, to receive charge of ordaining others for the work of the Ministry, and guiding the Keys with the advice and consent of such as laboured with them in the Word and Doctrine. Id. ca 4. Without proof, the Church must not believe, nor regard thy speech: and proof thou hast none. One and the same person cannot be both Accusant and Deponent: and in the mouth of one witness, though his testimony were received, yet may no man be condemned. See Beza annot. Maier. in. Matth. 18.7.   both their own and Neighbouring Churches: so did the Ancients. The Ordination of Bishops by themselves alone, or their Chaplains, and that of many at a clap: so did the Ancients. The thrusting of Ministers upon the people without their knowledge or consent: so did the Ancients. The ordination of Ministers without cure or charge: so did the Ancients. The ignorance, idleness, pride, luxury, pomp, covetousness, contention and schism of such as thrust themselves rashly, ambitiously, profanely into offices, by favour, money, flattery, or other corruption: so did the Ancients. They reprove these, and such like abuses, and humbly seek and sue for reformation, but tolerate what they cannot amend, and hold communion with the Churches of God in the Ordinances of Religion: and so did the Ancients.  
And if the Ancients did neither lay the grounds of Separation, nor walk contrary to their own Principles, in holding communion, it is great ignorance, at least, to charge the Nonconformists, as if they walked not according to their own rules, when they do not separate.  
Nay, if the Non-conformists should not disallow both your positions and practice of Separation, they should not walk agreeable to their own Principles, or the truth of Scripture. For you hold, the power of the keys originaliter, and executiuè, is given to the community of the faithful, many or few, yea though but two or three joined together in a Church way. This the Nonconformists approve not: You hold it is necessary and essential to the calling of a Minister, that he be approved, chosen and ordained only by that congregation, where he is to administer. This the Nonconformists altogether dislike. You hold all Ministers that be not chosen and ordained after your form propounded, to be unlawful, Idol, Antichristian Ministers. This the Nonconformists judge to be Antichristian. The consequence of your Positions is this, That since the Church of the New Testament was established upon the earth, there was scarce a true lawful Ministry to be found, where with the faithful might lawfully hold communion in the worship of God. This the Non-conformists do detest and abhor. Of other your positions in the Sections following.    

SEC. III. CAN. Stay against Stray. Sect. 1. pag. 4, 5.  
WHatsoever God hath bestowed upon his Church, as her privilege, the same is to be found in his Word: But it is not mentioned there, that Beleivers (as their privilege) ought to hear Antichristian Teachers.  
The proposition is unquestionably certain by these Scriptures. Psal. 19.7. 2 Tim. 3.15.16. Isai. 8.20. joh. 15.17. Act. 20.27. Besides, 
Contra Gentes.  this is the unanimous consent of learned writers. The Scriptures (saith Athanasius) do help us with the knowledge of every truth, etc.  
The first part which is only controversal is evident and clear, 
Anno. in 1 Cor. 10. §. 21. in 1 Reg. cap 5. v. 19  by these Scriptures. Levit. 17.3.4. Deut. 12.5. Prov. 5.8. Hos. 4.15. Matth. 7.15. 2 Cor. 7.15, 16, 17. Rev. 18.4. Song. 1.6, 7. To this all sorts of Writers assent, Zanch. on Phil. 3.2. The Authors of the Admonition. pag. 27, etc. Yea the Papists themselves, Rhemists and Douai Translators.  

ANSWER.  
THe sinews of this Argument are cut already in the first Section, if ever it had any, and therefore a few words may now suffice. In this reason you take for granted, that which is most false, little less than blasphemy; to wit, that all Ministers in the Church of England be Antichristian. For they are in respect of the substance of their office, the Ministers of Jesus Christ, set apart to preach the Gospel, dispense the Sacraments, and administer the Discipline of the Lord Christ: and many of them the approved servants of Christ, furnished with gifts from above, sent forth by authority to preach the Gospel of God, and dispense his Sacraments, which they faithfully execute, according to commission received from their Lord and Master, the King of the Church, who worketh by them, and blesseth their labours, if ever ordinary Ministers had cause to speak of, and rejoice in the blessing of God, to the praise of his name.  
But to let that pass, Antichristian Teachers (if I must speak in your own language) be of divers sorts:  
1. Such as be not called in every point according to your platform, or at least whose calling is in any respect maimed or defective, though they be godly, learned, painful, every way fit, set apart by authority, and approved by the Church. If Antichristian Teachers be taken in this sense, true Believers living in societies with them are bound to hear the Word, and partake in the Sacraments, because they be the ordinances of the Lord Jesus, who is present, knocking at the door of the heart, and will come in and sup with them that open unto him. 
So long as we teach the same doctrine which the Apostles did, we have the same power and authority to Preach, which they had. B●s. Chrill 〈◊〉 part 3. p. ●  Look what reasons soever can be alleged to prove that Christians ought to join together in holy communion, the same will strongly convince, that ordinarily, or occasionally we must hold society with such Ministers in the ordinances of piety and godliness. And if this Ministry be Antichristian, divers, if not most worthy Martyrs of Jesus Christ, that have withstood Antichrist unto blood, have stood under some ordinances, in their first original, Antichristian, or of men in some respects, which did not overthrow, though it might be some blemish unto their Ministry.  
2. Such as be not rightly called by men, because not rightly furnished with gifts, or faithfully executing their place, or teaching erroneous doctrines and traditions of men, but yet set apart to an office which is of God, and in communion of men professing the true Faith, are called Antichristian Ministers. And if it be taken in this sense, the faithful are bound in conscience to hear such, if they live in their societies: because they be the Ministers of Christ in a sort, though they be not approved of him, and do his work for the good of them that be heirs of salvation. But in so doing, they do not communicate with the Ministers of Antichrists apostasy, but with the Lord Christ in his holy ordinance, by such means as he hath appointed. 
Hieron. l. 1. Come in Eph. ad Galat. cap. 1.  Hierome noteth, that there are four sorts, who are employed in the businesses and affairs of Almighty God. The first, such as are sent neither of men, nor by men, but by Jesus Christ. The second, such as are sent of God, but by man. The third are such as are sent of man and not of God, who are they that are ordained by favour of Men, not rightly judging of the quality of them who are to serve in this calling. Who yet are not simply denied to be sent of God, as if they had not commission from him, but therefore only, because if the choosers and ordainers had done their duties, they should have made a better choice. For being sent by men that have authority, though abusing the same, we cannot say they have no true or lawful Ministry: for than were all ministration of the Sacraments, and other sacred things void, performed by scandalous, ungodly Ministers, and such as by sinister means get into these holy places. The fourth are of such as are neither sent of God, nor of men, nor by men, but run of themselves, and have no calling at all: who are neither Ministers of Christ for themselves, nor others. Thus fare Hierome.  
3 Such are Antichristian Ministers, as teach false doctrine, be set apart to an office merely of men, contrary to the Word of God, and live in communion and society with men professing real idolatry, as members of that society, though somewhat of God be joined in this their profession. Whereunto may be referred such as being tried, are found to be false Prophets, censured and cast out of the Church by them that have authority. Of which sort are those Heretics, which are condemned of their own conscience, and after once or twice admonition, are to be shunned.  
4 Such are Antichristian, as be merely from men, dispense only the things of Antichrist, and have nothing of God at all. If by Antichristian Teachers be meant false Prophets, 

Thom. Becon. his humble supplicat. unto God, etc. written in Queen Martes days. Vol. 2. Purge our temples of all Popish abominations, of ceremonies, of Images, of Altars, of Copes, of Vestments, of Pixes, of Crosses, of Censers, of Holy Water buckets, of holy Bread Baskets, of Chismatories, etc. above all, Idolatrous Priests, and ungodly ignorant Curates.  
Chaloner. The Orig. and progr. of Heresy. This change of their use, by occasion of Altars, and other ceremomes which crept in, as also by reason of the figurative speeches of the Ancients, etc. produced in the end, a doubt of the change of the substance, etc. The Pope first Breve.   in this third and fourth acceptation, I grant the faithful must hold no communion with them, because God hath forbidden it, and these are false Prophets, who have no calling, teach their own dreams, minister not the things of God, but of men, and either never were members of the true Church, professing the entire faith, or upon their discovery, are cast forth as unsavoury salt. And this the passages of Scripture, quoted to prove the controversal part, as you say, do confirm, Whereunto answer hath been given already. And the authors of all sorts alleged, do consent: for it is most manifest, they speak of false Prophets, who have no calling, teach false doctrine, were never members of the Church, or springing up, and continuing in the Church for a time, are censured and cast out, that they might not molest, tore and devour the Flock. But in this sense, the Ministers of the Church of England be not Antichristian: that which is spoken against false Prophets, cannot be applied unto them.  
And here consider how plentiful you are in proving that which was never questioned; as that the Scripture is perfect, to make the man of God wise unto salvation, that false Prophets must not be heard or believed, that the Faithful must come out of Babylon, etc. But that the Ministry of the Church of England is Antichristian, and the Teachers false Prophets, as the Scripture useth the word in the Texts alleged, this we must take upon your bare word, or most grievous misapplication of the holy Text.  
Paul the Fift (you say) in a certain Bull, sent to the Catholics in England, chargeth them by all means not to go to the Parish Churches, or hear their Sermons, lest they incur the wrath of God If this testimony will stand in any steed, the Pope himself doth not esteem our Parish assemblies Antichristian, for then his Catholics should not incur the wrath of God by going unto them. And what you can gain by this witness, I know not, unless it be to show, that how contrary soever you seem to be unto the Pope or Antichrist, yet in this you consent and agree with him, to condemn Christian communi●●●●● in our Assemblies in the holy exercises of Religion. 
CAN. 〈◊〉 p 6 〈…〉 to it, 〈…〉 bring 〈…〉 himselves und●● greater curse, by using their to agues, and pens to raise up again one part of the Kingdom of the Beast, which the Lord before had consumed with the breath of his mouth.   
Nay, the sentence of the Pope is mild in comparison of that brand which you set upon communicating the ordinances of God in our assemblies, viz. That it tendeth to the putting down of our true King, Christ Jesus, and to raise up Antichrist again, that bloody Tyrant; which bold ignorant censure must needs work the soul of every sober minded Christian to suspect, that in defence of this cause, you consulted with fury, more than with truth, and hoped to win more with swelling words of vanity, than weight of reason. But my purpose is to try your strength, and for unadvised censures, vain scoffs, and mis-application of common received Truths, I will leave you to the examination of your own conscience.    

SECT. iv  

CAN. Stay against. Sect. 3. pag. 16, 17. & Sect. 2. pag. 14 & Sect. 4. pag. 62. & Sect. 7. pag. 89.  
TO worship God in any other way or manner than he hath in his Word prescribed, is unlawful. But to hear Antichristian Ministers in false Churches, is to worship God in a way and manner which he hath not prescribed. The Major, No man dares deny, I assure myself. For it is manifest and certain by the whole course of the Scripture, Deut. 12.8. Levit. 10.20. Psal. 119.133. Mic. 7.18. Hos. 9.15. joh. 4.23. Matth. 15.3.4. Col. 2.8. 2 Joh. 16.17. Moreover, all sorts and sects of writers acknowledge this for a Truth. Zanch. explic. in Coloss. 2.23. tom. 4. pag. 319. Luther come. in Galat. cap. 6. pag. 871. Brent. in Amos. cap. 4.  
Touching the second part: I may spare all proofs, and send them to their own consciences. That this hearing is a worship, the same is manifest and clear to any that have an eye of reason, 
Howson serm. in Psal. 118. p. 7.  and any light of Religion shining in them. None to my knowledge, saving a Popish Parasite or two, ever held otherwise. That this worship is done in a way and manner, which the Lord never appointed, it is as clear as the Sun at noon day, and cannot with any modest face be denied, etc.  

ANSWER.  
THis is an old garment new turned, and the same answer which was made to the former, might suffice to this: wherein the thing to be proved, 

Bulls. Christ. subj. part 4 p. 345. God hath not charged us to be curious in searching his Essence, but to be careful in observing his Will. He neither takes, nor requires any thing at our hands, beside his Worship; That it we yield him according to his Will, we honour him as our God: if we altar that which he hath appointed for himself, or add any thing unto it, he rejecteth all our service, as done not unto him, but to the conceit of our hearts, which by nature is no God, etc.  
Grat. Ca●s. 11. Qu. 3. c. 101. Sats, qui praeest. Aug. de Conser. Evang. l. 1. c. 18. Socratis sententia est, Vnumquemque Deum, sic coliopercere, quomodose ipse colendum esse praeceperit. Aug. in Qu. ex veteri Teslam. Qu. 43. Constat ●●den stultam non solum minime prodesse, sed etiam obesse. Chry. in Matth. hom. 51. Discal us Coristum ex ipsius voluntate honorare. Nam qui honoratur, ●o maximè honore laetatur 〈◊〉 vuit, non quem nos optamus. Bills. d●ffer. betw. Christ. Subj. part 1 p. 7. Touching the Sacraments, I 〈◊〉 Baptism and the Lords Supper, etc. We swerve not a jot from the example of Christ and his Apostles; the Scriptures will not lie, let them be judges.   is fairly passed over with a brave flourish of words, and nothing else. If you meet with such company as will be ashamed not to see, because you cry out so vehemently, It is as clear as the Sun, it cannot be denied with any modest face, You may lead him blindfold. But if a man will build upon his own faith, and not be led by your fancies, he shall never see it proved by any evidence that you have, or can bring, That by communicating in our Assemblies in the ordinances of Religion, God is worshipped in any other way or manner than he hath prescribed. But seeing this reason is brought so often, and for so many purposes, I will examine it more particularly.  
If the meaning of your proposition be, That no positive worship, or substantial means of worship is lawful, but what is in special appointed, or instituted of God, and that no duties of Religion be necessary to salvation, but what are taught in Scripture, than we grant it is true, and confirmed by the course of Scripture, though many passages cited by you, will not reach unto it. For the law of nature commandeth all men, who have any sense of a Godhead, to receive, and not give rules of Religion and Worship. The holy care of the Patriarches was to reverence and obey that which they had received, and to attend upon further direction, but of themselves not to appoint or undertake any thing as necessary to salvation. Divine institution of legal and Evangelicall obedience, and worship, is equally full and complete in all things necessary, which it seemed good to divine Wisdom to determine, not leaving any thing of this nature more undetermined in time of the Gospel, than it was in time of the Law. As the Jews had a commandment, neither to add aught unto, nor take aught from the law, 
Deut. 4.2.  which the Lord gave unto them: so the Apostles received a charge, to teach whatsoever the Lord commanded them: Whence it is truly observed, 
Matth. 28.20. Zanch. the Ecript.  that men may not teach their own doctrine, but whatsoever Christ hath taught them: for he reserveth this authority to himself, to be the only Teacher and Author of the doctrine, 

Genev. Bible, annot. in Matth. 28.20. Show but one word, element, or action added, omitted, or altered in either of them, etc. Galv. Instit. l. 4. ca 10. §. 1.2.5.  
Hon. Ainsw. first answ. p. 26. That he taught any thing as needful for salvation, without warrant from the Scriptures, I deny.  
Harm confess. Helvetic. confess. cap. 24. Ang. confess. ca De discrim. ciborum.  
Chamier tom 4. de Sacram. l. 1. c. 13. §. 8.  
Bills differ. betw. Christ Su●j. par. 1. p. 25.  
This is the duty that Baptism requireth of us, to believe no teacher but one, which is Christ, to follow no stranger, to regard, or obey no Lord or Lawmaker in the Church, but only the Son, whom the Father appointed to be Master, Leader and Ruler of the Gentiles. Basil. ser. de fide. It is an evident sliding from the faith, etc. either to departed from that which is written, or to receive that which is not written.   The King of the Church is her only Lawgiver at all times.  
But if the way or manner of Worship be stretched to the circumstances of time, place, order, phrase of speech, and such like, not determined by God in particular, but left to the liberty of Christians, so the general rules of Scripture be observed, than the proposition is not true, the Scriptures do not confirm it, it was never acknowledged by Divines of any sort or sect that have appeared to the world. For what is in general only Divine, but in particular left without determination from God, that in itself is indifferent and variable: of which sort were the hours of the morning and evening sacrifice, their Synagogues, Oratories, and places of Worship throughout the land of Canaan, their course of reading, and many the like.  
What God hath commanded in his Word, that is not left to the liberty of Christians: What is prescribed as necessary, worship, holy, that he hath not left undetermined: But that which may be done this way, or another, at this time, or another, in this form of speech and method, or another, that in respect of this order, time, method, or phrase of speech, is not necessary, holy, or worship.  
Any circumstance, as time, place, or whatsoever else, if it be either appropriated or commanded of God, it is necessary in point of conscience, holy, and worship, as in conscience it must be observed, and submitted unto. But to place necessity, holiness or worship in these things, when they be not determined or commanded, is Will-worship, or superstition; lawful they be, as agreeable to the Word; but not necessary, because not determined by the Word.  
The time was when it was lawful to offer sacrifices upon the high places, 

Drus. ad dissic. loc. O at. 12. p. 571. Rivet. in Hos. 4.13. Ainsw. annot. in Levit. 17.5. jun. annot. in Levit. 17 5. & in 1 Reg. 3.3.  
Illud in Theologia bonum est, quod Deus praecepit, lex enim Deiperfecta est bonitatis moralis regula in Theologia, & prohibitio Divina perfecturest index Theologieus mali iae m●ralis  
Hen. Ainsw. 3. ans. p. 151. Explications of God's Law by them ●●u●h of his Ministers, are allowed of God. Neh. 8.8. These are not additions, such as God forbids. Gal. 3.15. 15 Our question is of other, or more laws or Doctrines than God hath taught. Scotia Confess. art. 20. jua. thes. theol. c. 6. thes. 11.12. Quaecunque verò in carcumslantiis posita saint, corumtradi●i●nes in ecclesi●● â esse au●●esse posse, verumtamen pat. lares, temporaliliberas agnoscimus; Atque barum quidem traditionum quae in circumstantiis versantur sex sore Paulo 1 Cor. 14, etc. Dan. in 1 Tim. 3.15. Calvin. Inst. 4. l. c. 15 §. 19 & 17. §. 45. 〈◊〉 resp. ad lib. de pii veri offic. p. 413. Th' Beza. cansess. c. 5. art. 18.   viz. when the place for Sacrifices was undetermined, and then it had been Will-worship to put holiness in places, or opinion of worship. But when God had chosen out, and appropriated one place for Sacrifice, and none other, than it was a matter of necessity, holiness, and worship, to sacrifice there, and a great sin to do it any where else.  
The reason hereof, was not simply because it was not commanded, for when it was lawful to the Fathers of Old, it was not commanded, but left undetermined only, and used by them as a circumstance or adjunct allowed, not as a matter of necessity, holiness or worship; not could they have used it so without superstition; as on the other side, after the strict commandment given to Israel, to sacrifice in the place which God had chosen, and none other, and the place of worship precisely determined for typical signification, it was a part of true worship, in conscience necessary: for them to do otherwise, was grievously to transgress, and not to do that which was commanded as necessary, holy; and worship, had been profaneness. For that which is commanded, may not be neglected, neither is any thing to be done, which is repugnant thereunto.  
But many things in the worship of God are not commanded or determined by God, but left to the liberty of Christians; many things were unprofitable, and needless to be determined particularly by divine authority, as being easily discernible by the light of nature, and common reason: and many things could not be determined, because one order in them could not fit all ages, times and places in the world. The divisions of the Chapters and verses, as they are in our Bibles, and the Sections of the Law, as among the Jews, are of men: and so is the phrase of speech and method used in Prayer, Preaching, Administration of the Sacraments, and the very words of Translations, wherein the Scriptures are read, and cannot be one and the same in all societies. And so are the circumstances, how oft, at what hour, on what day, in what place, the Pastor shall preach, which are particular determinations of the Church, and variable. If you say, these things are prescribed in general and by consequence, because they are done according to the rules of direction given in Scripture: Of necessity you must confess the proposition is ambiguous: for sometimes prescribed, shall import, as much as determined, instituted, commanded, sanctified; if not appropriated: and sometimes it shall note no more, but left at liberty, or indetermined. Neither will that sense stand in the proposition, 
Synops. purior. theol. disp. 35. thes. 17. Ab omni traditionum humanarum jugo liberas habeant conscientias, cum solius Dei sit, res ad religionem pertinentes praescribere.  for than it should be lawful to place opinion of necessity, holiness, or worship in those things which are undetermined, or not commanded of God, which is contrary to the whole scope and drift of Scripture, and the judgement of all Orthodox and sound Divines, new and old.  
To proceed more distinctly, because it is a matter much insisted upon, and as much mistaken, and misapplyed by many.  
Worship is as large as the Commandment, nay as the whole Word of God. 
Bald. de cons. l. 4. c. 3. To the precepts of God, nothing is to be added. Deut. 12. Now God hath commanded these things which are necessary. The rites of the Church are not necessary: wherefore if the abrogation, or usurpation of any rite be urged as necessary, then is an addition made to the commandment of God, which is forbidden in the Word, etc. Dea. 12.2 & 4 1, 2. & 5.32 Leu. 18.4. Pr●v. 30.6. Ambr the parad c. 12 tom. 4. Nihil vel 〈…〉 gratia adjunger●n ●s debemus mandato. Nihil vel quo● bonum videtur add●ndum. Addendo de proprio semipl. ●um Dei intellexit esse mandatum. Docetnos' 〈◊〉 praesentis series lection is, nequ. detra●●re aliquid debere diviris manned ●is, neque addere.  For so it is ordinarily defined, A work commanded, done in faith, and then it must needs extend itself as far as the Commandment. And if to obey God in conscience of his Commandment, in all actions, Civil and Sacred, of Piety, Justice or Mercy, be to Worship him, then to believe whatsoever the Lord hath taught, relying upon the truth and credit of the Revealer, is worship also. And hence it is, that the Worship of God is usually divided into Immediate and Mediate Worship: which comprehendeth all duties which we own to God or Man. Now if the way or manner of Worship be taken in this acceptation: then the sense of the Proposition must be this, That no action, great or small, done to God or man, religious or social, is lawful, unless it be prescribed of God.  
And let us consider the passages of Scripture, alleged by yourself and others, whether if rightly quoted, they do not affirm as much.  
Whatsoever I command you, that shall ye observe to do, Thou shalt not add thereto, neither shalt thou take aught from it. To what might they not add? From what might they not diminish? Is it not from the whole Law of God, which teacheth the whole duty of Man, both towards God, and towards Man for the Lords sake? Hereby the Lord establisheth his Word, and his only, and his whole word, to be the entire rule of Faith and manners. Hereby God appointeth his own Word and Law, to be the only rule of his Service, without imitating the customs of others, or devising any thing of their own, saith Master Ainsworth. But if by the Service of God, he understand the positive Worship of God only, or the immediate only, he straitneth the meaning of the Text overmuch: 
Annot in Deut. 12.32. Procopius in loc. verba enim Domini cum plena & perfecta existant auctarium nullum admittunt. Chrysost. in 1. ca 2. Epist. ad Tim. hom. 2. Si●quidem sidci dogma pervertat, etiamsi angelus sit, obedire noli. Annot. in Leu. 18.4. Tert. the prescript: advers haeret. It is not lawful for us to devise any thing of ourselves, nor follow that which others have devised. See Cham. pans●. tom. 1. l. 8. c. 6. Rainold. apol. thes. sect. 2. p. 205, 206, 207. Hen Ainsw. part 3. p. 150. He inferreth, that general admonition touching all the ways of God, and not the Ten Commandments only. Douai annot. in Deut. 4.2. & 12.32. Henry Ainsw. 2. Answ p. 55. Prov. 30.6. Lo here all additions, and not only things contrary are forbidden. Ex. 23.13. Chrysoft. oper. imperfect. hom. 20. in 7. cap. Matth. Every Teacher is a servant of the Law, because he may neither add of his own sense unto the Law, nor according to his own conceit, taking any thing from the Law, but preach that only which is found in the Law. Qu. Co. p. 67.  For it speaketh plainly of the whole Law, and is fitly alleged to prove the perfection of the Scripture in all matters necessary to salvation, and not concerning the Worship of God only. Israel might not add either to the Statutes or Judgements of the Lord: and if by Statutes be meant Decrees for Religion, or the Worship of God only, (which cannot be proved by the use of the Word) by judgements, they cannot be understood likewise. By this saith Master Ainsworth, God forbiddeth all inventions of men. Eccl. 7.29. the works of their own hands. Jer. 25.6. and the Statutes of the Kings of Israel, which they after made without the Commandment of the Lord. But the inventions of men respect the Commandments of God in general, and not the Ceremonial Ordinances only, nor yet the immediate worship of God alone. He shall do good service to the Papists, that shall limit the Texts in that manner: for by such like distinctions, they seek to elude them, when they are produced to prove the perfection of the written Word of God, in all things necessary to salvation.  
Ye shall take heed (saith the Lord) to all the things that I have said unto you. But this cannot be restrained to the ceremonial precepts concerning God's Worship, but must be referred to all things that God gave them in charge. David prayeth, Psal. 119.133. Direct my steps in thy Word, and let none iniquity have dominion over me. But what can be more plain, than that David doth not speak of the worship of God alone, but desires that all his counsels, thoughts, manners, actions might be directed according to God's Word: because the Word of God is the rule of all our actions? In which sense also it may be affirmed, That Negative conclusions in matters of faith, and duties, 
Hen. Ai●sw. 2. Ans. p. 55. The 〈◊〉. cited sc. Deut. 5.32. & 12.32. Speak of God's Commandments in general; you take one in particular, and because one is not all, therefore all must not be all. A D●spute, part 1. cap. 4. p. 8. The laws of the Church declare unto us what is fittest in such things as are in their own nature indifferent, and neither enforced by the law of God, nor nature. Id. p. 21. As when the Church ordaineth that in great Towns there shall be a Sermon on such a day of the week, and public Prayers every day at such an hourt, etc. First book of Scotish Discip. In great Towns, we think expedient, that every day there be either Sermon, or Common Prayer, etc. Zanc. in quartum praeceptum in tract. de discip. Eccles in fine. Calv. Instit. l. 4. c. 10. §. 30, 31. E●fi fateamur non ●nviti ex insitâ & naturali Dei cognition, ersi corrupta, sequietiam in genere Deum esse colendum. Item non solum interno affectu cultum illum fieridebere, sed etiam externo actu. Negamus tamen, naturali leg? determinatam esse speriem il am externi cultus. Rivet. in Gen. exercit. 42. Sec Scul●et. Ethic. lib. 1. Neither Angels nor men can make a Sacrament Ca●seh. art. 4. p. 104.  follow well from Scriptures silence.  
If the way or manner of Worship, be put for immediate Worship, than it extends as large as the Commandments of the first Table, and the sense of the proposition must be, That no Worship, public or private, must be performed to God for substance, manner or time, other than that which God hath prescribed in his Word: which holdeth not true, unless it be added, That no worship must be performed as necessary and holy for substance, manner and time, which God hath not prescribed. For what shall we say of the time of rivate Prayer in the family or closet, the form of catechising, and translations of the Scripture, the times for public Lectures, and exercises of Religion upon the week day, and ordering and government of Schools, and Universities? for these things are not for time, words and manner prescribed, or determined of God.  
If the word, Worship, be taken more strictly for substantial Worship, commanded in, or referred to the first and second Commandments, usually known by the titles of inward and outward worship, Natural and positive instituted Worship (though perhaps the terms be not so fit, if better were found out) than the meaning is, that no Worship of God, inward or outward, natural or positive, is lawful; but what is prescribed and determined of God in his Word. But then there want not difficulties: for how should Worship be natural, if it must be instituted and prescribed? If the light of nature or reason teach it, which is planted in the heart, by the singer of God, how can it be unlawful, unless it be prescribed by an external word of institution? What shall we say of outward gestures, made in and upon the body, to declare the hidden affection of the soul; must these be prescribed, and determined, or fall under this censure? When the Word informeth me to call upon God in the Mediation of Jesus Christ: doth not reason itself without any further institution, teach me to kneel, lift up my hands, etc. At least, if worship be natural, or positive, must there be a distinction of the institution or prescription of this worship also? Doth not positive Worship require one manner of institution; natural another?  
If the way or manner of Worship be restrained to positive, or instituted only, it is most true; No worship is lawful, which is not in special commanded, or appointed of God in his Word. But then the Texts of Scripture, quoted by you for proof, will not speak unto it.  
Ye shall not do (saith Moses) after all things, 
Deut. 12.8.  which we do here this day, every man, all that is right in his own eyes. Some Greek copies have it, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. Others 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, which is according to the Hebrew. 
Ainsw. annot. in Deut. 12.8.  And the speech of Moses seems to mean the true Service of God, which was not yet perfected, neither could be in their travels, 
jun. annot. in Deut. 12.8. & Analy. in loc. P. Martyr. in 1 Reg. 8. Vetabl. Nefeceritis, id est, Non facietis omnino ut nos, etc. hodiè; ante ingressan viz. terrae sanctae hic facimus, i. extra terram sanctam. Deodar. Italic. Deut. 12.8. i. concerning sacrifice, the law of which they did not observe exactly, by occasion of the continual wand'ring of the people. Ainsw annot. in Rev 10.19. De●dat. Ital. in Leu. 10 ●9. The Lord hath showed great wrath against me by the death of my sons, how then can I eate of this sacrifice to bear the si●s of the people, according to the ordinary law, the Lord not being pleased with me myself. Others would have it, That he could not eat, because he was in heavinelle, it b●ing ●cet he should eat those things with joy and thanksgiving. Vatabl. annos, in Loc.  as it was after in Canaan, v. 10.11. Not that they sacrificed after their fancy (saith the Geneva notes) but that God would be served more purely in the land of Canaan. Jun. upon this place noteth. Etsi oblationum lex unasemper fuit ab initi● praescripta a Deo, non potuit tamen usque adeo in ambulatoriis Israelitarum castris observari, an't summo jure ab illis exigi, prout ostendit Antithesis, Vers. 11. vide Num, 28.6. The Douai Divines, on the place, give this observation, In the Desert, they could not observe the Ceremonies of the Law, but coming to rest, they were bound to keep all one set form of holy rites. The conclusion from this Text is, That God is pleased to dispense with his people in his own prescribed Worship, until, if he hath appointed, determined, or appropriated a certain form, time and place, they have opportunity to serve him at that time, in that place, and after that form. But thence it followeth not, that he hath determined, or appropriated a certain form of place, or that no other Worship may be tendered, but what he hath in particular appointed, or prescribed. This I say, cannot be concluded from the Text, though I grant it is a truth rightly understood, as I said before.  
Such things (saith Aaron) have befallen me, and if I had eaten the sin-offering to day, should it have been good in the eyes of the Lord? In these words Aaron excuseth himself, by reason of his sorrow, which made him unfit and unworthy to eat of those holy things. Deutr. 12.7. & 26.14. Hos. 9.4.  
The Douai Divines, somewhat to the same purpose. Natural grief of mind, made Aaron both unwilling to eat, and less apt to complete all the ceremonies: so without sin he omitted that pertained to his own commodity, offering it unto God. The Geneva notes, Moses bore with his infirmity, considering his great sorrow, but doth not leave an example to forgive them that maliciously transgress the commandment of God. The vulgar reads it, Quomodo potui comedore eam, aut placere Domino in ceremoniis ment lugubri? Vatablus, or Leo juda, Taliaque mihi acciderunt, et si comedissem hostiam pro peccato hodiè num hoc benè factum esset in oculis Domini? Or, Mihi autem acciderunt hujusmodi, si igitur comedissem, hodie oblationem illam pro peccato, an placuisset Deo? And the sense of the place he gives thus, Mihi tamen mortui sunt filii mei, quod certè argumento est illorum sacrificium Deo non placuisse (ignorabat enim Aaron causam mortis filiorum) Si igitur comedissem quod mibi debebatur, ex eâ oblatione quomodo placuissem Deo, quum oblatio ipsa non placuerit? q. d. Non putavifore Deo gratum, quumea victima non fuerit placatus. 
Jun. annot in loc.  jun. gives the words another sense. Ego quoque non satis attendi ad officium mihi imperatum lege, sed per imprudentiam peccavi ut filii mei supers●ites ●●ejusdem negligentiae & perturbationis reus sum: gratumne ei foret, si ego adhut-in peccato haerens, peccatum populi expiandum in me transtulissem.  
The conclusions from this Text of Scripture, may be such as these; That oftentimes the letter of the Law giveth place to great necessities; or that God's worship, where he hath prescribed and determined the manner, must be performed as he hath appointed. But that no other service may be tendered unto God, than he hath instituted (though that be a Truth) or that in every title he hath determined the manner of his Service, that cannot be gathered from this Text.  
All their wickedness is in Gilgal (saith the Lord by the Prophet) for there do I hate them: 
Hos. 9.15. Hos. 4.15. & 1●. 11. Amos 4.4 & 5.5.  for the wickedness of their inventions I will cast them out of mine house: I will love them no more: all their Princes are rebels. The wickedness of Gilgal was that horrible idolatry, wherewith it was polluted, and by their inventions, we must understand their idolatrous Worship, set up directly against the Commandment of God. And by the house of God, neither the land which the Lord gave them to possess, or the family of God is meant: but the condition of the people of Israel, will not suffer the Sanctuary or Tabernacle to be understood. For they set up Altars, and sacrificed in Gilgal, where was neither the Ark, nor Sanctuary of the Lord, and when God had expressly forbidden either to multiply Altars, or to sacrifice in any other place than that which he had chosen unto himself. 
Cypr. Cecilio fratri. ep. 68 Non hominis corsuetudinem sequi oporte●, sed Dei veritatem; cum per Isaiam Prophetam Deus loquatur & dicat; sine causa autem colunt me mandata & doctrinas hominum docentes & iterum Dominus in Evange●o hoc idem repetit dicens. Reiicistis etc. Matth. 15 3, 4. Col. 2.8. Rivet. ad Gen. praelect. 44 Quiequid ad colendum Deum ab hominibus institu tur sine Dei mandato, vanumest. rsal. 19.13. Math. 15.8. Heb. 11.6. Rom. 10.17. Non camen-negamus posse eos quiecclesium regunt pras●ribere aliquid fingulare de circumstantiis, ad Dei cull 'em perti●e tibus, ex v●r●● Dei gener●libus axio●atis ut de leco & tempore pabli orum conventuum & si●dibus quae ad pretatem ecclesiasticam pertinent, sed negamus in talibus forma●iter cull 'em Det consistere. CAN, Stay sect. 2. p. 9 Melan●th, l. 4. c. de distinct. Keckerm. Thcol. l. 1. p. 59  directly contrary to God's Commandment, is unlawful, therefore it is unlawful to worship God in any other way or manner than he hath instituted? The thing concluded is true, but it hangs to the Premises as a rope of sand.  
Two passages of Scripture are rightly alleged by you (the rest are mustered up merely to make a show, and argue your great inconsiderateness in citing Scripture) against will-worship, and superstitious rites, or empty shows of Religion. For the soul of Religion, is to do acts with relation to God's Commandment, and where there is no Commandment or Institution, there can be no conscience of worship, no expectation of a blessing. In this sense therefore the proposition is to be admitted. But in a matter of such importance, so much insisted upon by yourself, it became you to deal distinctly, and prove substantially what you affirm, and not to confound things that differ, confidently to affirm what you can never make good, and heap up Scriptures and Authors to no purpose.  
You say, it is a certain rule (as Logicians teach) Things are really to be distinguished; which in themselves are to be separated each from other. But the rule is, That all things are really distinguished, which may be separated each from other, as the body is really distinguished from the apparel, because the garment may be separated from the body, & the body from the garment. How truly you understand, or fitly apply that Maxim, it is needless to examine further: but what you observe in your Pistoler (as you style him) that is most true in yourself and some others, that ignorance or neglect of distinguishing things that differ in this matter of God's Worship, is one main cause of great error and going astray.  
In proof of your proposition also, you lavish somewhat, when you say without limitation, That all sorts and sects of Writers acknowledge it for a truth; For the Papists generally hold the contrary, as you know. But this is a thing with you very usual and common.  
The later part of your reason, which you smoothly pass over, as a matter clear, and manifest, and for proof whereof, you send us to our consciences, in conscience we utterly deny, and by the Word of God are assured of the contrary, viz. That to join with our congregations in the ordinances of Grace, is a Worship of God prescribed in his Word, commended of Christ, and blessed of him to them that in conscience obey his Commandments. The Worship there performed, is that which the Lord hath instituted, the doctrine of salvation is taught entirely, the Sacraments rightly administered, the sacrifice of Prayer offered unto God in the Mediation of Jesus Christ, our only high Priest, who is present in the Congregations, by the presence of his grace, graciously inviteth men to come unto him, and sweetly refresheth them that in truth of heart draw nigh unto him. Thus God is worshipped in our assemblies, and this worship is performed by such as are called of God, and many approved of God in their Office and Ministry.  
That the Preaching and hearing of the Word is a Worship of God, if the word, Worship, be taken largely to comprehend both all natural worship, and all means instituted and ordained, whereby God is pleased to teach and instruct his people, will easily be granted, and such as deny it, are justly to be taxed. But that distinction of Worship must be admitted, which is taught in Scripture, and the more exactly terms are distinguished, the more clearly the fraud of the Adversary is discovered, and the better able shall we be to confute them, unless we had rather do it with big words than weight of reason.  
Only here observe your partiality. 
CAN. Necess. of Sep. p. 72. Idem. 222.  For to show the necessity of Separation, speaking of outward. Worship used in the assemblies of England, you say; As for Preaching, it is held to be no part of Divine Service, and for proof, you quote Howson, Serm. in Psal. 118. pag. 18. CAN. 19, Zion plea, 326. And, Touching Preaching, it is no Essential part of their Ministry. But against your Pistoler, to prove that hearing is Worship, 
CAN. Stay. §. 3. p 17.  you sing another note; None to my knowledge (saving a Popish Parasite or two, Howson, Serm. in Psal. 118. pag. 78.) ever held otherwise; viz. but that hearing was Worship. And they by men of better judgements have been sharply blamed for it. But let us hear how you go forward in this Argument.    

CAN. Stay against Stray. Sect. 3, pag. 17, 18.  
The Church is an Idol Church, 
Hos. 14 8.2 Cor. 6.14. Par. come. in 1 Cor. 10 v. 14.  and the Ministry an Idol Ministry: And if be Church he an Holl, the Ministry a● Idol●, who 〈◊〉 a● Idol, etc. In the words then of the Prophet, What have we to d●● any more with Idols? What agreement hath the Temple of God with Idols? Little children, keep yourselves from Idols? Again, my dear beloved, 〈◊〉 from Idolatry. But how, ment & corpore, faith Pare●s, that is, the worship and reverence of Idols.  

ANSWER.  
The Assumption you leave naked, to shift for itself, because you find it an easier matter to declaim against Idolatry, and holding communion with Idolaters, in their idol-service (which no man ever doubted) than to make proof, that to join in the ordinances of Religion in our assemblies, is will-worship or superstition. But if you prove little, you have learned to accuse manfully. An Idol Church, an Idol Ministry, an Idoll-government, who doth not tremble at such thunder cracks?  
But first you should call to mind what you answer to your opposite. 
CAN. Stay. §. 3. p. 20 Arist. de interpret. l. 1. c. 6. prapter nostr●m ●ffirmare vel negare nihil sequitur. CAN. Stay. §. 7. p. 89.  As for your bare saying, it is fare from proof. To affirm or deny (according to Aristorie) is of no consequence. We cannot take his bare saying, de jure & fide, to be a rule of faith to us. For our consciences are not (like Samsons shoulders) strong enough to bear it. If it may suffice to accuse, who shall be innocent? And if the cause may be carried with clamours and outcries, you are sure to win the victory.  
2 Suppose our Church and Ministry be an Idol in some respect, it is not a real Idol, but Metaphorical, not absolute, but in some consideration: for the Word preached, and the Sacraments Administered in our societies, are the true Gospel, and entire Sacraments of Jesus Christ; which could not be, if our Church and Ministry was absolutely an Idol, a mere nothing. But to draw illimited conclusions, from a real Idol, to a Metaphorical, from an absolute Idol, to an Idol in some consideration or respect, is a new Logic never taught in the Schools, nor learned from the Scriptures.  
The idle, 
Zech. 11.16; 17. Isa. 56.10. Ezek. 34.1, 2, 4, 5. They will not be able to do the work of Pastors; where of they bear the name, that is, they will never be but Idols. T.C. repl.. 2. p. 1. p. 369 Jere. 5.1, 2. Deut. 32.4, 5.  careless, unprofitable covetous, pro●d, scandalous shepherd, who filleth the room, but doth not the office of a shepherd, is an Idol shepherd: But the faithful were not to fly from them, both in mind and body, so as to have no communion with them in the Ordinances of God.  
In the days of the Prophet Iere●ie, the men of Jerusaiem in general, both rich and poor, were Idols who had eyes but saw not, ears, but heard not. But the Prophet had not learned in mind and body, to fly from, and have no society with them in the worship of God. The stiffnecked, and disobedient Israelites, the uncircumcised in heart and life, were they not Idols? A people not a people? Though those their vices must be shunned, yet we have not found, that Moses and the Prophets did fly from the ordinances of God, because they must have nothing to do with Idols. Every thing that is empty of goodness required, and so doth fail or frustrate expectation, may be called an Idol, a thing of no worth, vain and fruitless. So an Hypocrite is an Idol; the husband, wife, father, friends, who are not faithful, do not their office, 
Job 13.4. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Nihist, as Merar. Montan. Tremel. & jun. render it. job 6.15. 1 Cht. 16.26. Heb. Sept. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Hieron. idola Psal. 96.5. Sept. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. Hieron. vers. ex Hebr. sculptile. Eph. 5.3. Col. 3.5. with Hal. 1.16  may be called Idols. job saith to his friends, Ye are Physicians of no value, because they had deceived him, as David saith, All the gods of the people are vanity, or vain. The covetous person is an Idolater, and his goods are Idols: must therefore these goods be destroyed, and the persons be abhorred? Nay the outward Ordinances of God themselves, Circumcision, Baptism, the Lords Supper may be called Idols, things of no value, that presit not, as separated from the inward grace or thing signified. And if we shall annex your Assumption, and, now then in the words of the Prophet, What have we any more to do with Idols? What agreement hath the Temple of God with Idols? Will you grant the conclusion, or condemn the inference, as unlearned, foolish, perverse, not free from gross abuse of Scripture?  
3 Our Church and Ministry is not free from spots and stains, 
job 3.24. Rom. 2.28. jer. 9.25.26 Sardis vera Ecclesia est, etsi vocem Christi plenè non audiat, etsi illius obedientia plena non sit, etsi in plenum sicut oportuit ab Ethniasmo non fuerit reformata. Apo. 3.2. Park. de polit. Eccl. lib. 1. ca 13. §. 1. Bright●. in Apoc. 3.2. Ambr. in Luc. lib 6. cap. 9 Tom. 5. Fides igitur in primis Ecclesiae quaerenda mandetur, in qua si Christus habita or sit haud dubie legenda. Si qua est ecclesia quae fidem respuat deaf endaest. Ibid Petra tua Ch●istus est, fundamentum Ecclesiae fides est, St non in petra fueris, in Ecclesia cris; petrà est Christus. Hieron. in Symbol tom. 4. Ita est Ecclesia sancta, quae fidem Christi integramservat. Stapleton relect. count. ●. qu. 4. art. 5. Fides verae Ecclesi● vita est. Bilson Christian subject. part. 2. p. 365. Where faith faileth, the Church faileth; and he that affirms your doctrine to be false, denies your assemblies and multitudes to be the Church.  we freely confess to the praise of God's glorious grace, and hearty beseech his Highness to supply what is wanting, to amend what is out of order, and to remove what is superfluous. But not withstanding any defects or corruptions that can be charged upon us, the Church and Ministry is true and sound, enjoying whatsoever is essentially necessary to the life and soul of a true Church and Ministry, given by Christ, and such as the Kings of the earth are bound by God's law to protect and maintain. For our Church is built upon Jesus Christ, the sole foundation of his Church. We acknowledge Christ our only King, Priest, and Prophet. God hath given unto us the Tables of his Covenant, and we have received them● and his free and gracious. Covenant is confirmed by the true and effectual seals, which he hath annexed unto his promise, and committed unto his Church as their prerogative. Christ's Name is truly and only called upon in our Assemblies: his Gospel is entirely Preached, and savingly received by his people, and he is present with his Ordinances to bless them, to the worthy partakers. If any stubble be laid upon the foundation in respect of the Church or society, it is done ignorantly, for aught we can judge, and with a mind teachable and ready to give place when light doth evince it: at least it is not in points fundamental, that is, such as are so main, that without them there is no salvation, or of so clear consequence from them, that who so is truly persuaded of the one, cannot but see the other.  
The passages of Scripture annexed, are grossly abused, and so are the Authors alleged: for they speak of real Idolatry, and Idols, from which we must fly: but cannot so much as colourably be applied to separation from the worship of God in our congregations, because of some abuses which are not reform. But you go forward, and we must follow you.    

CAN. Stay. Sec. 3. pag. 18.  
If it was Israel's great sin to carry the oblations under the law, to a place (howbeit sometimes lawful, and where their godly Ancestors had before truly worshipped) because they had no commandment so to do: then certainly, more in fault are those (which with the worship of the Gospel) go where it was never lawful publicly to serve God, and where their forefathers never to this day rightly served him.  

ANSWER.  
Here yout●g what we shall never grant, 
If a mortal enemy may both accuse and judge, and proceed upon no better ground than suspicion, you may quickly condemn any man of heresy. Bilson. Chri. part. 3. pag. 203.  nor you be able to prove, to wit, that our Church is an Idol Church, our Ministry an Idol Ministry, and that our forefathers never rightly served God in our Assemblies: which is an easy kind of disputing, if you get a reader as credulous and willing to be misled, as you are peremptory in passing sentence. But if we should believe you herein, we should belly the mercy of God, and condemn the generation of his Saints.  
As for the high places of which we read often in Scripture, it was lawful for the Fathers of old to offer Sacrifices upon them, when it was not precisely commanded, but only the place for sacrifice undetermined. But after that God had chosen, determined, and appropriated a peculiar place for sacrifice where it was to be offered and not else where, 
Alsted praecog lib. 2. pag. 369. Tert de dololat. It is no hurt, that the same God by his la forbade a similitude to be made, and by an extraordinary precept commanded the similitude of the brazen serpent to be made; which may be applied to this purpose, with a little variation. Deut. 12.13. & 14.23. 1 Chr. 17.6. 2 Chron. 6.6. Psal. 78.68. Rivet. in Hos. 4.13. Colendo verum Deum in collibus est in exce●sis contra Dei legem et rium praeseripium. Zanch. in Hos. 4.13 Laudabile exercitua illud ●sraelitis videbatur, & tamen est scortari. Quare? quia sacrilegium e● discedere a verb Domini. Verbuma. Domini jusserat ut taxtum Harosolymis, & ritibu● a Den irstitutis, since sa●●● Deum coleren●. See. lun. Annot. in 1. Reg. 33. & 2 Reg. 22.4. 1 King. 15.12, 14. King. 22.43. 2 King. 12. 〈◊〉 King 25.4. 2 King. 15.35. Bilson Christ subject, part 4. pag. 340. God's act 〈…〉 no warrant for you to break his saw. By his law he restraineth you not humselfe from the making of any such similitudes. 2 Kings 4.15.19.  than it was a great sin for them without extraordinary dispensation or commandment to offer in those places, where their godly Ancestors had truly worshipped before, not because they had no commandment so to do (for that may be said of their Ancestors, they had no commandment to offer there) but because it was expressly forbidden. And here you may see how the first part of the sentence doth cross the later: For if godly Ancestors did truly worship God in the high places, when they were not commanded, than the Israelites did not fin grievously in carrying their oblations thither, because it was not commanded. What moved you so to write, and to allege Authors, as if they affirmed the same, I leave it to your conscience to judge. This is sure, neither Scripture nor Author cited, doth speak with you in that matter, but plainly profess, that it was unlawful, because it was expressly forbidden. That exercise (saith Zanchie) did seem praiseworthy to the Israelites, and yet it is to play the harlot: Why? because it is sacrilege to departed from the Word of the Lord. But the Word of the Lord had commanded, that they should worship the Lord only at jerusalem, and by such rites as he had instituted.  
The Kings who are commended in Scripture, who yet took not away the high places, as Asa, Jehosaphat, Amasias, Azarias, and Jothian, they were not commended for suffering the high places, but that they were constant in faith and religion, although they fell into some peculiar sins. But withal, the abuse of the high places in the worship of God, was no light sin, but very grievous, because it was properly and expressly against the divine law and precept.  
As for the ten Tribes who departed from the house of David, they shined grievously, in that they worshipped the Calves, and that in a place of worship elected of themselves, contrary to the word of God, leaving and forsaking that place which the Lord bade chosen to himself. They professed the true God, and turned not aside to the gods of the Heathen, and in that respect are called the house and family of the Lord: 
2 King. 10.16.31 Hos. 9 15. 1 King 12.31. Leu. 17.7. Hebr. Sep. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. jun. demonibus. Deu. 32.17. 1 Cor. 10.10. Ex. 32.1.8 Acts 7.41. 1 Cor. 10.7. 1 King. 12.28. and 14.9. 2 Chron. 11.15. Heb. Sept. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. See Ainsw. Annot. in Leu. 17.7. et jun. ibid. Rainold de Idolola. l. 2. c. 3. Isa. 44. Qu. Co. pag. 61. CAN Sta. §. 3 pag. 18. Babingt. in Leu. 17. See jun. in Leu. 17.3. 4, 11.  But as they sacrificed at Bethel, and committed Idolatry in worshipping the Calves, so their service was abominable, and their Priesthood appointed for that service, a mere nullity and humane device.  
Thus all the Jews and Gentiles are said to sacrifice unto Devils, who sacrificed in such sort and place as God had forbidden, especially it they sacrificed unto Idols, though in them they sacrificed unto the true God in their imagination, as the Israelites had done when they made the golden Calse, and sacrificed unto it: and jeroboam Idols are called Devils, and he is said to make Priests for the high places and for Devils. Further this Ordinance of God was typical, and did shadow forth Christ, as the learned do observe, and not without ground and warrant. All Altars, Sacrifices, Priests, and the Temple itself where the Altar stood, were but types and shadows of Christ. You yourself cite out of Bishop Babington, that hereby was signified, that only in the Church by faith in the chief high Priest Christ Jesus, sacrifice and service accepted of God, is, and can be offered and done, and no where else. By the erudiments (saith another) Christ was shadowed among the Jews, and expiation made on the cross by his blood.  
From hence briefly let these things be observed. 1 That the Jews sinned by facrificing in the high places, and the Israelites at Dan and Bethel, because God had forbidden it expressly, but against communicating in our assemblies, no such prohibition can be brought forth, which haply might be the reason, why you had rather say, because they had no divine precept for it, than because it was forbidden, which yet you know to be most certain. 2 Though it be not lawful to communicate with the people of God in their sins, yet we may partake in the ordinances of worship, with such as offend grievously in the worship of God, as the Prophets and faithful, communicated in the ordinances of God at Jerusalem, with them that sacrificed upon the high places. 3. That in Idolatrous and false Churches, that which is merely of men is vain and fruitless, and a mere nullity, but if among them, something which is of God remain, it is not to be esteemed a thing of nought. 4 We must neither forsake all societies, wherein we espy many things repugnant to the Word of God, nor cast off every thing in those societies, wherewith we must not hold communion, as false, vain and ineffectual. In Idolatrous societies, 
Cyp. lib. 1. c. 4. The people must not partake with the sacrifice of a sacrilegious Priest.  there may be some truth which I must not cast away, though I must not hold society in their Idolatry. In the true Churches of Christ, there may be divers errors and abuses, wherewith I must not communicate, though I must live and hold fellowship in the society.  
I am bound to keep the unity of that living body, 
S. B. Second answer, pag. 20.  whereof I am a member, even with some inconvenience of sickness and unsound parts, but I must not join myself to a strange body and so become a member of Satan. 5. They that communicate in the Worship of God in our Assemblies do neither bring a strange oblation, nor go to a place forbidden, for the worship is of God, and the Congregation assembled in his Name, and he is there present to feast them that draw nigh unto him in truth of heart.    

Can. Stay. Sect. 3. Pag. 19  
Ought we not to believe, that as God had commanded us to worship Him, that is, to hear his Word, receive the Sacraments and to use other His Ordinances: so He hath also called and separated unto himself a Church, a Communion of Saints, and holy ones, in and amongst whom these holy things are to be used, and that we are to look in what fellowship we receive the holy things of God, as what the things are we do receive. In a word, ought we not to be persuaded, that as the legal Sacrifices out of the Tabernacle or Temple, within whose circle they were prescribed by the mouth of God, were unlawfully offered: so all the Ordinances and exercises of the Church under the Gospel done out of a true constituted Church are altogether and every way sinful. 
Deut. 12.5, 6, 7.   

ANSWER.  
God hath separated unto himself a Church, and amongst them he is to be worshipped according to his own appointment. But this Church is of larger extent than that which you call a true constituted Church; we read that the Lord did choose a certain place for sacrifices, 
Deut. 12.5, 6, 7.  after which it was unlawful to sacrifice in any other; and so we read also that the remaindes of the Paschall Lamb was to be burnt and the flesh of the Ram of Consecration with the bread that remained unto the morning, 
Exod. 12.10. Exod. 29.34. Levit. 15.19. I yield the Scripture a witness of my sense, and my exposition without the Scripture, let it be of no credit. Orig. Hom. 9 in Jer. CAN. Necess. of separ. pag. 2 11. Can. Stay. Epistle to the Reader. john 2.19, 21. 2 Cor. 6.16. So the Altar is put for Christ in the Ancients. Ignat. ad Magnesian. To one Altar, to one Lord jesus Christ. Ad Philadel. one Altar to all the Church. Iren. adv: haeres. l 4 ca 34. est Ergo Altare in caelis. Euseb. Hist. lib. 10. cap. 4.  and the flesh of the peace-offering: But that all Ordinances of the Church done out of a true constituted Church, in your sense, should be altogether unlawful, or that the Ordinances are tied to your Church constitution, as the Sacrifices were to the Temple, that we read not: and how then shall we be persuaded of it? Remember your own request. Let the Scripture speak in the points between us, for without it nothing is to be affirmed, and beyond it nothing to be concluded.  
Principally, of old the Temple shadowed Christ, in and through whom we must present our service unto God, and then the Church of Christians: but that the external constitution of a congregational society is represented thereby, in such sort as if it be thus, or thus constituted it should be lawful to join with them, but if this or that external rite be lacking, it should be unlawful to join in the worship of God, is most unprobable. In all ages the Lord hath had his Church, in which he hath been worshipped. But evermore the faithful were not to bring their sacrifices to the Tabernacle, or Temple. And if the Lord had chosen not that place for sacrifice, other service pleasing and acceptable might and ought to be performed in other places.  
Therefore that Sacrifices should prefigure all Ordinances and exercises of the Christian Church, 
Fulke in Matth. 23. Sect. 7. The Lord's Altar that was in the Temple, was a figure of Christ's only true sacrifice once offered. Bishop Babin. comfort. notes upon, Exod. 27.  and the Tabernacle and Temple the external frame and constitution of a Church, is an unwritten tradition.  
It is more reasonable a great deal to compare the external frame of the jewish Church with the outward order which God hath instituted for the Evangelicall Churches, and worship with worship, substance of Religion with substance, and then it will follow that as the faithful and religious Iewes might and ought to hold society in the Ordinances of Religion, when many things were amiss in the external frame and constitution of the Church; as the Priests idle, covetous, profane, the people dissolute, impenitent, rebellious: so the faithful in the Christian Church must hold Communion in the Ordinances of Grace, though in the constitution of the Church the Officers and members much be out of order. 
Douai annot in 3. book of Kings pag. 7 15.  The Douai gloss hath much more probbaility than yours. To conserve unity (say they) there was but one Tabernacle & one Altar for sacrifice in the whole people of Israel: Whereupon, when the two tribes and an half on the other side jordan had made a several Altar, all the Tribes that dwelled in Canaan suspecting it was for Sacrifice, sent presently to admonish them, 
Aug. Epist. 48 Quis non impudentissemè, etc. vid page seq: Omnis ea distinctio in re Theologica est inanis fictio, quae ex Dei mentiri nescis authoritate non accipitur, quaeque rem ipsam de qua agitur tollit, etc. Martin: de persona Christ. page 632.  etc. but what end shall we have, if every man upon his own head may devise or Coin significations of God's Ordinances? What is this, but to bring in a new word, to set up Sacraments upon our own heads? Herein we say to you, and them as you to your opposite: I require the voice of the Shepherd, Read it me out of the Prophets Show it me out of the Psalms, etc. In the interpretation of the Types and Figures of the Law, men's judgements if the Scripture go not before them are of small credit.    

Can. Stay. Sect. 3. Pag. 20.21.  
If that be true in the Philosopher, 
Opposite a sunt simul natura, Arist Topic l. b. 6. Bonum est cujus contrarium est malum. Rhetor. l. 1. If we take a str●ct view and enquiry of that Ministry, Worship and Government, which they left at Dan & Bethel; it will appear evidently, that the same was not more self, idolatrous, and unlawful than the present Ministry, worship and Government of the English Assemblies is, by the Non-conformists affirmed to be Jeroboams Apolog in his Arrow against Idolatry. CAN Necess. of Sep. p. 85.86, 87, 88 Course of Comfort. p. 161.162.  Opposite things in nature are alike. Again, That is good whose contrary is evil: It must needs follows, that as some Churches are visibly true in respect of faith and order: so others may be true too having outward order, albeit the members thereof have no faith at all. The which assertion is not to be answered but abhorred. The ten Tribes which departed from the Lord, from his Temple, Sacrifices, Priests, Altar, and other holy signs of his presence at jerusalem; from the time and still after were not God's Church, so the Scriptures show, Hos. 2.2. and 2 Chron. 15.3. jer. 3.8. Amos 9.7. etc. And the Israelites when they worshipped at Dan and Bethel, were not in respect of faith and Doctrine more corrupt, than the other now is, Mr. Amsworth, and the Non conformists, affirm that the Apostate jews could justifia their way and course of Religion as well if not better than the other.  

ANSWER.  
The Philosophical Maxim to which you have reference is. 
Arist. de Caelo. lib. 2. cap. 3. Text. 19  Posito une contrariorum ponitur & alterum. But as you cite it, It is as hard to be found as your translation is to be understood. That it is not universal, appeareth out of Arist. himself, who putteth down the contrary Maxim as true and certain. 
Arist. Gategor. l. c. 11 de contrar.  Non necessarium est, Si contrariorum alterum sit & alterum esse. Nam si omnes sint sanitas quidem erit, morbus non erit. So in the first Creation of all things, all things were very good and there was nothing evil. All things created are finite in act, but amongst things created there neither is nor can be a natural infinite. Truth and falsehood, good and evil, Piety, and Idolatry are opposite, and that before ever falsehood, evil or Idolatry had any being in the world. Contraries we know expel one another, Or if one be necessary in the subject the other cannot be in it, at least in the intense degree, as if fire be hot it cannot be cold; Now it is necessary, that every thing created be finite and good as created, and therefore good had a being before evil. If it be objected, that opposites are relatives, and relatives are together in nature, the answer is, they are relatives secundum dici, as they speak, not secundum esse, which may be said to be together in nature; Not that both are in act existent out of their causes, but because the nature of one being known the nature of the other may be known, whether it be, or be not, whether it may be or may not be. We know likewise, that not only good is opposed to evil, but evil to evil, as covetousness to prodigality and this the Philosopher himself confesseth. So that these propositions must be rightly limited or they are both false. 
Par. in Rom. 10.15 Legitima Vo atio ecclesiae est, quae in quavis Ecclesia publica authoritate or dinis causa ad aedisicationem instituta. Neque umformis est omnium ubique quead circumst intias exter●●s sed libertati Ecclesiae relacta.   
These Philosophical Rules are impertinently alleged by you, for the external order or government and entire profession of faith are not opposite, they may be separated in part, and they may and aught to be joined together. The faith and doctrine strictly taken may be entire, when the external order is pure and holy: and the order may be maimed and defective, when the doctrine is found in points fundamental: And the doctrine may be very corrupt and rotten, when the external order is observed according to the rule; and therefore a Church may be true in doctrine and profession of faith, strictly taken, when for matters of order it labours under great defects; though in respect of outward order and government, it cannot be the true Church, when it destroyeth the foundation of the faith. For if the faith be taught entirely, 
Rivet. in Hosea 4.6. Etsi ad ordinatienem externam, nihil ijs deesset, & se pro sacerdotibus gererent, tamen illos reijeit Dominus. Sic Pontificiorum sacerdotes adhuc retinen● aliquam ministerij formam externam, etc. CAN. Stay. Sect. 11 page 115.  and the Sacraments rightly administered, it cannot be but the ministry in that Church must be true for substance, what other defects soever it labour under.  
But if the foundation of faith be overthrown, or the ministry whereunto men be set apart be strange and merely devised, there can be no true calling or ministry, but false and impure.  
If this distinction of a true Church and Ministry, for substance of Doctrine in points fundamental, and external calling and government, be denied absolutely, I shall desire you to untie a Knot or two, which yourself have knit. The Scribes and Pharisees were blind guides, corrupt Teachers, false Prophets, in respect of their doctrine: covetous, ambitious, and otherwise profane, in respect of their conversation: upon what grounds then were they to be heard? because they were called and ordained of God, 
CAN. Stay. Sect. 3 page 60. jer. 2.11, 13. & 3.8, 9, 10, 11. Ezek. 16.47, 48, 49 Mat. 11.21, 22, 2 Chro. 11.13, 14. 1 Reg. 12. Hosea 4.6, 9 & 5.1. ● Reg. 19.10, 18 2 Reg. 17.28. Par. in Rom. 11.2, 3, 4 Dub. 3. Samaria etiam erat de Iudaeorum s●nagoga, l. cet corruptissim● & Apostatica Siquidem Jfraelitae ctiam crant de popu o praecogni●o: & alioqui Elias & Elizaeus, all i● pr●phetae ibi non docuissent.  that they should preach the Law oh God in the Synagogues to the people, and exhort them to the observation thereof. Is not here the distinction of true and false Teachers, in divers respects? Rebellious Indah justified her sister Samaria in some respects, and in some other continued the true Church of God. From the time that the ten Tribes departed from the Lord, his Temple, Paiests, Altar, etc. it was unlawful to hold communion with them, because they committed Idolatry, and wilfully left the place which the Lord appropriated for his service and sacrifice: but still they retained something of a Church, and were not to be esteemed altogether as heathens as the very places quoted do testify.  
That the Israelites when they worshipped at Dan and Bethe●, when they committed real Idolatry with the Calves, played the Harlot upon every high hill, and under every green Tree, forsook wilfully the place which God had appointed for sacrifice, and offered sacrifices in places forbidden, rejected the Lords Priests, and made of the basest of the people-Priests for that service which the Lord abhorred: that they were not more corrupt in Doctrine and worship than the Church of England by the confession of Non conformists, is an assertion beyond all credit. I may fitly put you in mind, what Origen saith of Celsus his works, 
CAN. Stay. Sect. 5 page 39  which you apply to your adversary; There is no danger lest any faithful man should be subverted by your say: for you talk but reason not: yea in your talk you keep no compass, but all men may feel how grossly you mistake.  
Master Ainsworths' Arrow against Idolatry, I have not seen, nor know not how to come by it. But if you will bring forth his or your own darts in this kind, they shall be tried and examined by the Word of God. You are not afraid not ashamed to write, that the Non-conformists affirm the worship of our English Assemblies to be as false and idolatrous as the worship of the Israelites at Dan and Bethel. But for proof, you bring the bare testimony of one alone, and him no English Nonconformist. And if his testimony had been truly alleged, can you with truth and honesty charge that upon all, which you know is disclaimed by many, spoken only by one, and he no member of the English societies: But that one shamefully abused likewise, for when he saith the Idolatry of these times doth equal, if not exceed that of jeroboam, he intends the Idolatry of the Romish Synagogues, but accuseth not the English Congregations, as if they stood guilty of that sin, or the like degree. For he acknowledgeth the Church of England to be a glorious reformed Church; though in some things not throughly reform as she ought. 
Course of confor. page 142.  Wherefore, saith he, for conforming to a glorious Church, but in that wherein she was never raformed. And what wonder if all the reformed Churches crept not forth of the Romish deluge equally accomplished? 
Course of confor page 183  What greater wonder than that any should be found free of the smell of that Wine, of Fornication, whereof they all for so many years were drunk.  
Your pen runneth over almost every where with pernicious I dolatry, 
Aug. Ep. 48. Quis non impudentissine nitatur alie vid in allegoria positum prose interpretari: nisi haheat manifesta testimonia qu●● lumne 〈…〉 obscura?  blasphemy and such like out-cries, and for colour of what you say, pretend the names of men, who indeed and truth from their hearts detest your rashness and inconsideratnes: Whereas if you would be persuaded to talk less, and reason more, and give milder words, and bring stronger arguments, and deal sincerely in the testimonies which you use, you should ease your reader, and spare your Conscience.     

SECTION 5.  

Can. Stay. Sect. 5. Pag 37.38.  
THe Word preached by false Ministers is not that word unto which God hath promised a blessing of increase. Or it is not the ordinary way and means, 
Id. Sect. 15. p. 132.  which the Scripture speaks of to beget men to the faith. For as a false forged constitution makes a Church a real and substantial Idol. So all that comes from it, is touched with the Idolatry of that constitution. This is a ruled opinion of many Divines, The State makes all the public actions to be formally good or evil. For as the Temple sanctifieth the gold, 
Matth. 23.17.  the Altar the offerings: so the Ordinances of the Church under the Gospel are sanctified unto us. 
Bucer. in Mat. 23.17  That is (as Bucer truly speaketh) in the use of them made lawful to us, in that they have their rise from a true and right power.  
Seeing therefore the Church in Question wants a right Constitution it must follow that all spiritual actions, done in it (whether Prayer, Preaching, Sacraments, Censures) as they are there done, are none of God's Ordinances, though true it is, in themselves they are of God. If the false Churches of whom we disputed, 
CAN. Stay. Sect. 15. p. 131.132. Id. Sect. 2. p. 8.  be that spiritual Babylon mentioned in the Revelation, cap. 18.4. than it is unlawful for God's people to go unto them, to perform any spiritual or religious action, and so consequently not to hear the●e. But the first is true, Ergo, the later is true also. The proposition needs no proof, because our opposites and we herein are of opinion alike. The assumption is manifest by these reasons. 
Artopaeus in Rev. 18. pag. 198. Flac. Illyric. in Rev. 18.4 Par. come. in Hos. 4. pag. 506. Bulling. in Apoc. ca 18. con. 76.  1. The words in the Text prove it plainly, Come out of her my people, that is, remove yourselves from all false assemblies, covenant together to walk in all the ways of God, serve the Lord among yourselves in spirit and truth, and return not from whence you are come. But repent rather that ye have suffered your Consciences to be wrought upon by any unlawful Officers. And thus do the Learned interpret the place, namely of such a coming out, as that we may not be bodily present at any of their worship. 

2 Cor. 6.1. joh. 5.21. Zech. 11.17. Botlac. prompt. allegoriar. cap. 21. the Minist.  
It is like that filthy bird, which carrieth this Motto, Contactu omnia saedat.  
The publisher and others with him have commited appatant Idolatry, maintained it in the Church, and sought thereby to pervert the right ways of the lord Jd. sect. 1. p. 7. Id sect. 15. p. 133.   A false Church state is rightly likened to the leprosy spread in the walls of the houses of the Lepers, because of the pollution which it causeth to the persons and things. Take for instance a City or Town, if the civil State or Corporation, which they have be usurped, aevised or derived from a false power, all their public administrations are unlawful, and every one partaking thereof offendeth: So all administrations done in a false Church (whether prayer, Preaching Sacraments, Censures) are unclean actions and do defile every receiver, I say, because of the Idol State, which is devised out of a man's brain, and used as a means to serve God in it and by it.  
All the Ordinances done after the invention and will of Antichrist can not otherwise be judged, than a brood common to the nature of the breeders, that is, the Devil, and the Whore of Rome, the Father and Mother that did beget them.  

ANSWER.  
THe Faithful are commanded to come out of spiritual Babylon and not to communicate with her in false worship or Idolatry, 
Revel. 18.4.  as the Text doth confirm, and your opposites grant. And therein it was needless to muster up the testimonies of the Learned, to give evidence in a case maintained and practised notoriously, sc. that we must fly from the society of Rome, and not be present to behold their worship. Your labour herein is superfluous, but that the Names of Learned men here numbered up, might serve to cover your nakedness, when you come to the point in controversy, wherein you prove just nothing at all.  
But our Churches wherein the Gospel of Christ is purely preached and professed in all points fundamental, the seals of the Covenant of Grace rightly administered, who are separaced from spiritual Babylon in mind and body, and have fled from her worship and Idolatry, who are built upon Christ the true and firm foundation of his Church, and by Christ himself acknowledged for his people, and graced with his favourable presence: Our Churches, I say, cannot be deemed or reputed spiritual Babylon, without great injury to Christ his truth, his Church and Saints.  
By spiritual Babylon in this book of the Revelation, is meant Rome Christian; departed from the faith, guilty of the blood of Saints, stained with manifold and fearful Idolatries, the mother of fornications, who hath made drunk the Kings of the earth with the cup of her poisons, as might be confirmed by the Scripture itself, the joint consent of learned orthodox Divines, and the testimony of Papists themselves.  
But to brand the Churches of Christ since the reformation, who have renounced Antichrists doctrine, worship, and idolatries, and embraced the entire faith of the Lord Jesus, with that odious hateful name, is contrary to the truth of God, evident reason, and the judgement of all approved godly learned men.  
You miserably corrupt and pervert the Text, when you give this to be the sense thereof, Remove yourselves from all false Assemblies, covenant together to walk in all the ways of God, serve the Lord among yourselves in spirit and truth, and return not from whence you are come. This is not to interpret Scripture, and learn of them what we are to think, but to rack Scriptures to our sense, and make them speak according to our fancies, which is an high point of Antichristianisme.  
If you will stand to your principles, within two hundred years after Christ, or less, there was not one true Christian society in the whole world, which did walk together in all the ways of God, and serve God in a Church state among themselves. And will you say, the faithful are charged of God, in this passage of holy writ, to remove and separate from all Christian assemblies, that then were in the world, and to serve God among themselves. If corruption in doctrine, manners, worship, government, and orders, make a false assembly, Rome was a false assembly long before the Lord gave commandment to his people to departed thence and separate themselves.  
Israel for a time continued in Egypt and Babylon, viz. until the Lord sent to bring them forth: and the Church lay hid in Babylon, and that by the providence and approbation of God, long after Rome was miserably corrupted and defiled. The matter is notorious, and therefore to spend more words about it is needless. He that considereth the state of things, long before the faithful separated from Rome, and what is written in defence of that separation, which the reformed Churches have made, cannot be ignorant thereof. If to come out of Babylon then, had been to remove from all false assemblies, as you gloss it, it was necessary the commandment had been given much sooner, or the faithful should have departed without leave or commandment from God.  
I might say to you in your own words, 
CAN Stay. §. 15 pag. 135  This is to gratify the error of Montanus, who professed that he knew more than the Apostles. For the Apostles knew nothing of our removing from all false assemblies (as you understand it) and covenauting together to walk in all God's ways, and serve God among themselves. If this had been known to John, when he foretold the Apostasy from the faith, and the rising of the great Whore, he would have made more haste to warn the faithful to be gone out of the Churches, and to have withdrawn themselves, it being a matter of such weight and importance, and so needful to be done, divers hundred years, before it was ever once thought upon, When the words of a Text are plain, a gree with the circumstances of the place, the analogy of faith, and other Scriptures, for men then to leave the native sense, and to force a sense contrary to that the letter expresseth, it is to wrest the Scriptures, as you say, and not to expound them by the true rules and Canons of Divinity. 
CAN Stay. § 15 p 135. Rev. 18.2, 3. Exite ab ea p●pu●● m●. At agit angelus de babylon mylica, de synagaga nempe Romana, quae ipsa fidei & Evangelit sundamenta corrasit. Park. de polit. Ec●● l. 1. c. 14.  Lay this rule to the present interpretation, which you make of this passage in Scripture, and whomsoever you accuse, you shall find yourself to be a perverter of Scripture, in degree fare above him. For your interpretation is contrary to the scope and drift of the place, the rules of faith, and consent of other Scriptures. It speaks not of leaving all administrations in false Churches, as you speak o● false administrations and false Churches, but of separation from spiritual Babylon, which was the habitation of Devils, and cage of every unclean spirit and of every unclean and hateful bird: which cannot be said of all administrations which you are pleased to accuse as false. If it may be, spare your words, and let us hear your reasons, for if they be aught they will carry more weight.  
A devised constitution (you say) is an Idol, 
Whitak. de pontiff. Rom. count. 4. qu 2. p. 146. Si semel ea consuetudo aut lex obtinuerit in Theologia, ut liberum sit cuivis distinctiones comminisci, nihil in omni religione certum fixumque remanebi●. Quis enim non eo modo quid vis labefactare poterit? Eaplorandae ergo distinctiones dil genlius & â judic ndae sunt, eaque magni facienda est regula, nullas in in Theologia probandas esse distinctiones, nisi quae aper●is Scripturarum loc●s nitantur.  and all that comes from it is tainted with the idolatry of that constitution. You will say, it is a false Church constitution, if the Minister be not chosen and ordained by the congregation alone, where he is to administer; if a man be received into the society, who is not a visible Saint; if any idle, ignorant, careless, scandalons, corrupt, usurping Minister be chosen, ordained or suffered; if any notorious or scandalous person be admitted to the ordinances; if any stinted Liturgy, or form of Catechising, administration, or prayer be used: with sundry the like, which in your esteem, are arguments of false constitutions. Churches, Ministry, and Worship. Now tell us plainly, is every such Church-constitution an Idol, and that which is done in these Societies unholy and unclean? If so, then there was never any one age, wherein the Church-constitution was not an Idol, and the worship of God performed in that Society, leprous, unclean, poisoned with Idolatry. The Temple sanctified the Gold, and the Altar the offering: but the Temple, and Altar are not types and figures of external Church-constitution. Where do you read this, in the Law, or the Prophets? etc. And if you read it not, how dare you affirm it. Besides, 
Leu. 16.20. Num. 7 10. 1 Reg. 8.63.  the sanctification of the oblations depended upon one Temple, and Altar therein, yet so as both Temple and Altar were sanctified by the offering.  
But if we may speak as you do, A devised constitution is twofold, 1 Absolute and in every respect, when neither Doctrine, Ordinances, office or persons are of God: and this constitution is altogether false, a nullity, an Idol, if you please so to call it. 2 In part corrupt, maimed, defective, but having something of God: and that which is done in such a constitution is not false, a nullity, tainted with the idolatry of the constitution. This distinction is neither devised, strange, nor new, but that which hath ever more been acknowledged in the Church of God, and is manifest in Scripture, if we take the word, devised constitution, as this Author doth. For Heretics and Schismatics, though they be not of the special number of them, that hold the entire profession of divine truth in unity, and in that respect be a false constitution; yet as they profess the truth of God revealed in Christ, though maimedly or in part only, and as they administer the ordinances or Sacraments of God, that which they do is not a mere nullity.  
Heresy is Idolatry, and cannot bear children to God, in that it is heresy, but heretics 
* See D. Feild of the Church, l. 1. c. 14. Aug. de Bapt. cont. Donat. l. 1. c. 10 See Chamier. panst. tom. 2. l. 16 c. 4. Hieron. ad Algasiam. Antichristus sedebit in templo Dei, vel Hie osolymis ut quidam putant, vel in Ecclesi●, ut verius arbitiamur. 2 Thes. 2.3. Whitak. de po●●. Rom. count. 4. q. 5. p. 681. Licet Ecclesia papistica non sit vera ecclesia, retinet tamea aliquas p●aerogativas & reliquias ecclesiae Dei ergo di●i potest aliquo modo templ● Dei misore prophanatum, plus quam se●uiu●ti●●m, pene dirutum alque eversum, &c Habet illa e●clesia Scripturas, e●sicerrup●as, & p●eris●ue ignotas, tamen aliqui allas legunt & intelligent, & hinc doct●●●am salutarem hauriu●. Fst apud illos quoddam minis●e●ium, & aliqua verbi prad catio quae valet sine dubio nonn●llisad salutem est ibi baptismus quoad substantiam, etc. Calv. instit. 4. c. 2. par. 11 CAN Stay §. 15. p. 136. & §. 7 p 93.  may bear children to God, in that they profess and practice, that which Christians should, and do both profess and practise: and have received that degree, order, office, Ministry; and calling, which is holy, by virtue whereof they do administer the holy things of God.  
The Church of Rome is a false constitution, but baptism administered in that Church is not idolatry, nor a mere nullity. If the Church of Rome were not a Church in some respects, but a mere Idol, the Pope could not be that Antichrist, a principal rebel, a notorious traitor against Christ. If we speak absolutely, or compare Rome with Churches truly Christian, it is no true Church, but the Synagogue of Satan: But if we speak of it in opposition to the Jews, of Turks, or other professed Infidels, it hath so much of a visible Church, as a man cannot say it is no Church at all; so much true doctrine is in it, as sufficeth to support the title of Antichrist, and some ordinances are so administered, as that it cannot be said, they are mere nullities.  
In the true Church many wicked ones are found, that are no less profane, sacrilegious, enemies to peace, the vassals of Satan, possessed by the Devil, dead in sin and accursed of God, than heretics or schismatiks, who yet for that they have that order, office, or degree of ministry, which is holy, do no less nor with less effect administer the holy sacraments, than those who are the samplars of all piety and virtue.  
The faithful and holy Ministers administer and receive the Sacraments with good profit, and benefit to themselves and others. The hypocritical, with benefit to others, not to themselves. The profane being not put from their places, do officiate with hurt to themselves, scandal to others, but to the everlasting comfort of them that partake worthily. The heretical and idolatrous administer the Sacraments, that are holy, and in their own nature, the means, pledges, and assurances of salvation, but without benefit to themselves and others, that continue in sin. Thus the Prophets, Apostles, Martyrs, and faithful, have held communion in the Ordinances of grace, with such whose calling and conversation was not approved of God.  
You say, the Martyrs first and last would not receive this distinction, lest to save their lives, they should lose their souls, and you reckon up many, who, as you writ, would rather give their bodies to the fire, than hear or receive the Sacrament, in false Churches or Societies. But in this you lavish, as in every thing else, and hid the truth under the ambiguity of the phrase. The Martyrs laid down their lives, rather than they would defile themselves with idolatry, be present at the Mass, or join themselves as members of that Antichristian Synagogue: in all which they did, as becometh the faithful servants of Jesus Christ. But you cannot produce one Martyr of your opinion, who denied, that any thing of God was to be found in those Assemblies, or that refused to join in the pure ordinances of God, with Societies separated from spiritual Babylon, because of some defect or may me in their Church constitution.  
In the whole Catalogue of Martyrs, try if you can bring forth one, who in these things was of your mind. And what a vain thing is it to pretend the example of all the Martyrs, when there is not one among them that doth approve your cause. If the example of the Martyrs be of any weight with you, as here you bear the Reader in hand: 
CAN Neces. of separation, p. 190, 191, 192.  of necessity you must condemn your rash and presumptuous censuring, your unadvised sinful separation, from the worship and ministry in our Church, as Antichristian and Idolatrous. For certain it is, the Martyrs stood members of our Societies, and died in the defence of that doctrine and worship, which we profess and practise. Many words you spend in answer to this reason, and reproaches you cast upon your adversary, but one word is not to be found that makes directly to take away the force of the Argument.  
It was the answer of Frederick Duke of Saxony, who being prisoner to Charles the fifth, and promised releasement, if he would go to the Mass, Summum in terris Dominum agnosco Caesarem, in coclis Christum. The like did the Prince of Condee: but neither of them did refuse to join with the reformed Churches, because they deemed their Church constitution defective or erroneous, in this or that particular. To pretend the consent of popish and protestant Divines in this matter, is egregious ignorance, or impudence, for it is well known they are all generally of another mind.  
Your instance from a City or Town, 
Similitudes be no syllogisms. Earthly similitudes of your making, may not control the heavenly precepts of Gods own giving. Bilson. Christ. part. 4. pag. 322. Have you no surer ground of your catholic doctrine for adoring Images, than a single similitude taken from the civil and external reverence that is yielded to Prince's seats and seals? Id p. 329.  if the Civil power be usurped, is not to the purpose, nor true in all respects. Not to the purpose, because what is of God in these Societies, is not done by power, merely usurped, but by power and virtue from God, though in the ministration, that which is evil be not approved of God: for wheresoever any supernatural truth of Christian Religion is taught, and any ordinances of grace dispensed truly for substance, there is some truth of ministry though many ways polluted. And where the entire faith is professed and received, and the ordinances of grace administered truly, there is a true ministry for substance ordained of God, what other defects or maims soever it may labour under.  
Not true, because in the Civil estate, That which is done by power, usurped, and unlawful, in some cases is a nullity, but in other some it is available and stands in force. For it is a rule in the Civil law, That it is one thing to be a true Magistrate, another to be in the Magistracy, or to execute the Magistrate's office. From which distinction, is gathered this general ruled case, or sentence, That the acts of him that was a false or unlawful Magistrate may be lawful and just. And the same may be said, and was ever held in the Church of God, of corrupt and ungodly Ministers, though they be not true Ministers, that is, approved fit, and rightly qualified, yet so long as they be in the place of Ministers, the acts of their ministry be good, that is, effectual, and of force, if they observe the form of administration prescribed by Christ.    

CAN Stay. Sect. 15. pag 133.  
The Lord hath not promised to them his blessing and acceptance: what the Lord may accept or will, we dispute not, only this, I say, whosoever heareth in a false Church, cannot by any promise that he hath in the word of God, expect God's blessing on that which he doth: the reason is, because a true constitution of a true Church, that is, where men are gathered according to the Gospel of Christ, is that only lawful religious society, or communion of Saints, wherein God will be honoured, whereby he will be served, and whereto he hath promised his presence and acceptance, so then howsoever we are not bound unto hearing in a true Church, necessitate medii; as if God's grace were tied to the means this way, yet as they say in Schools, necessitate praecepti: if we consider God's commandment, 
CAN Stay. §. 3. pag. 59  so we are bound to Church hearing only in a true Church, and in no other Church can we expect God's presence, promise and acceptance. Such Churches unto whom God hath made no promise in his word, to bless the things there done, ought not by God's people to be resorted to; but God in his word hath made no promise to bless the things done in a false church; therefore God's people are not to go unto false churches. The proposition cannot be excepted against: for, 1. The Scriptures prove it clearly, Jer. 23.21, 22. Exodus 20 24. Psalm 134.3, and 147.13. Again, there is no duty charged upon us, but there is a blessing promised unto the due performance of it. The assumption is as clear, and thus we prove it. If false churches have not the promise of God's presence, they cannot from the word of God expect his blessing upon what they do, but the first is true, Ergo, the second. The Major which is only controversal we prove thus. If every false church be an Idol, Exod. 20.4, 5. And God require his people to come out thence, Rev. 18.4. threatened to destroy it, Rev. 20.8, 9 and will do it, and promise his presence unto his true church, Mat. 18.20. Then he is not present in the false: But the first is true, therefore the second.  

ANSWER.  
You struggle hard, as all men may perceive, but set not one foot forward. Our Church is an idol, therefore we must not hold communion with it: God hath promised no blessing to his ordinances therein, because the Church is an Idol. This is your circle wherein you walk up and down. But to help you out of this mire, if it may be: 1. 
Rom. 3.2. Can 1.6. Rain. de idolola. l. 2. c. 1. p. 2.  Where you take it for granted that our Church is false, and therefore Christ is not present with us; we on the contrary are assured, that we are a people in covenant with Christ, to whom he hath committed his heavenly oracles, and seals of the covenant, amongst whom he feedeth his flock in green pastures, and causeth them to lie down by the still waters, with whom he is present when they meet together. 
Mat. 18.20. Exod. ●0. 24. Psal. 134.3. joh. 10.4.5.  He hath set up his tabernacle amongst us, and dwelleth with us, and watcheth over us, and worketh by his Ministers, not only to call men unto salvation, but to nourish and build them forward unto life everlasting. We are separated from Idols, we hear the voice of the true shepherd, and follow not strangers, but fly from them; we believe in the Lord Jesus Christ for salvation, and worship him sincerely, according to his will. He standeth at the door knocking, and to such as open unto him he cometh unto them, and they sup with him, and he with them. And therefore Christ is our Shepherd, our King, our Saviour, and of his rich grace and love doth embrace us as his people, and the flock of his pasture, beareth our prayers, and accepteth our service. This is our glory that Christ is ours, and we are his, and it were better for us to die, than that our glorying herein should be made void.  
Secondly, seeing this term, False Church, is so familiar with you, we will consider what it meaneth, and how fare it doth stand true, that God hath made no promise to bless things done in a false Church. These words, True and false Church, are used oft to signify, as much as pure and corrupt, found and languishing Church. And as there is scarce a Church so pure, which hath not some impurity, nor so true, which hath not some falsehood admixed: so there is no Church so false or impure, which hath not somewhat of God, or some supernatural Christian truth within it, For if no supernatural Christian truth be received or professed, there is no Church. Infidels being clean without the Church, deny and utterly reject the principles of Christianity. Heretics or false Christians, in respect of general truths which they openly profess, are Christians, or of the Church, but in respect of their particular errors, condemned of all men that be of sound belief. A Church is not to be esteemed false for some corruptions, nor impure for some disorders, no more, than we account him a sickly man who now and then finds some weariness or distemper. Neither is a Church to be accounted true, because of some truths which they profess, 
Act. 2.41, 42, 46  worship, which they practise, or use of the Sacraments, which they retain. The notes of a pure Church are, entire profession of the Gospel, and saving truth of God, the right use of the Sacraments, holiness of conversation, the sound preaching of the word of life, fervent and pure calling upon God's name, subjection to their spiritual guides, whereby they may be directed and built forward in the ways of life, mutual communion in the ordinances of worship, 
Eph. 4.11, 12.  and Christian fellowship with all Saints, and true visible Churches of Jesus Christ.  
Those Churches to which all these notes agree truly, are to be esteemed pure in their measure: but those to whom all do not agree, or not so truly, they are to be esteemed less pure or true, and that in comparison more or less according as more or fewer of these notes, common, special or proper, shall be found more or less pure amongst them.  
Where all these notes are to be found purely, the Church is excellent for degree, pure and famous; where any of these is wanting or impure, the Church is so much defective or impure, though it may be pure in comparison of others.  
The profession of the true faith, 
Acts 14.22.23, 27  and the framing of our life and conversation according to the direction of the word, with the right administration of the Sacraments and comely order, 
jer. 4.22. Mat. 13.14, 15. Isa. 30.9, 10, 11. & 5.7, 8, 9 etc.  are signs of a Church in a good state and condition. But it may fall out, that the profession of faith alone by public preaching and hearing of the word, administration of the Sacraments, prayers and thanksgiving doth take place, when good order is neglected, and if life degenerate from the profession: for in this case she ceaseth not to be the true CHURCH of Christ, so long as it pleaseth him not to give her a Bill of divorce.  
True doctrine in all points, and the due and right administration of the Sacraments in all things according to the word both for substance and circumstance, is the note of a pure Church, and in good plight. But true Doctrine in the main grounds and Articles of faith, though mixed with defects and errors in other matters, not concerning the life and soul of Religion, and the right administration of the Sacraments for substance, though in the manner of dispensation some things be not so well ordered as they might and ought, are notes and marks of a true and sound Church, though somewhat crazed in health and soundness, by errors in doctrine, corruptions in the worship of God, and evils in life and manners.  
A false Church is that which holds neither the truth of faith entirely, nor the integrity of divine worship, nor comely order which God hath appointed for the government of his house, nor holiness of conversation. But addeth to the Articles of faith, to that which is worshipped, and to the substantial means whereby God is worshipped, and to the holy Commandments, which God hath given for the direction of his people, or detracteth and perverteth the right sense of faith, not considering that which is worshipped as is meet, mangling the Ordinances of God, and transforming the lawful manner of worship into another form, and inverteth the holy Commandment by corrupt glosses and sinister interpretations, which destroyeth the life and power of godliness.  
One false Church may be more corrupt and rotten than another, as being more deeply tainted in matters of higher importance and more generally than another: as some may be corrupt in matters of faith, others in doctrine and worship both, 
jer. 2.11, 13. 2 Reg. 16.3. 1 Reg. 18.21. Ezek. 16.20  and some in all the particulars mentioned. Thus Israel worshipped God and the Calves, yea the Lord and Baal.  
And as one false Church may be more corrupt than another, 
Hen. Ains. 2. part page 62. Did not the Priests, rulers, and people condemn the Prophets of God sent in all ages; and was not jerusalem the holy City & seat of the Priesthood guilty of their blood? Luke 13.33, 34. was not vile and gross Idolatry practised often in Judah and Jerusalem by the Priests and Princes? Ezek. 23.11. Did not juda forsake the Lord and turn their faces from his Tabernacle, shut the doors of his house, quench his Lamps, and neither burn Incense nor offer burnt offering in the Sanctuary, unto the God of Jsrael? 2 Chro. 29.6, 7. Vriah the Priest made an Altar Idolatrous like that in Damascus, and polluted God's Worship in the Temple, 2 Reg. 16.10, 11, 12, 16. Pashur the son of Immer the Priest being Governor in the House of the Lord persecuted jeremy for preaching the truth, Jer. 20.1, 2. and himself prophesied lies, ve. 6. See jer. 32.31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36. Mic. 3.11. Mal. 2.8, 9  or at one time than another: so one false Church may have more of God in it than another, and at another time. For the less grievous the errors are which the false Church holdeth, or the less abominable the idolatry which it maintaineth, the more divine truth it embraceth, the more effectual is that worship of God which it retaineth.  
The true Church of God which is comparatively pure, may be called false though improperly, in respect of that corruption in doctrine and manners, errors, schisms, divisions, superstition or profaneness, which through humane frailty and negligence cleaveth unto it.  
And a false Church may comparatively be called a Church true or pure in respect of them that be more grossly defiled, as it hath more truth and purity in it.  
Also the true Churches of God have sometimes been distinct visible societies from the false Churches, and by many degrees in themselves more pure from tincture and infection, than at other times and some others have been. As in the days of Abiah, judah was by many degrees more free from pollution than afterwards.  
In Paul's time the integrity of Rome was famous: Corinth many ways reproved: They of Galatia much more out of square. But the true and Orthodox Church hath sometimes been so mixed with others in outward society, that it hath been hard to find in the whole world a distinct Congregation of sound and entire professors of all supernatural truths, who joined in the use of God's Holy Ordinances, but the members of the true visible Church were dispersed and scattered, and mingled with false Christians or false worshippers in society, and the true Church lay hid in the false.  
Now to apply these things.  
1. If by a false Church you understand a Church erring in points of faith exceeding dangerous, and corrupting the pure worship of God with real Idolatry, with whom the faithful may not lawfully hold Communion: yet than that which they have of God amongst them, though not rightly administered, is effectual by the blessing of GOD according, to promise.  
As Baptism administered by the Heretics holding the form of Baptism, and of Popish Priests, is true Baptism, and not to be reiterated. For one and the same society may in one sense have somewhat of the true Church, and in another be the Synagogue of Satan: and their Ministers exercise the Ministry and service of Christ, when they themselves be the bondslaves of Satan. It is true, God threatens to destroy such societies, and is highly displeased with the service that is done there as such, because it is not done as it ought: but as he is pleased to continue his Ordinance, so he is pleased to give it force and validity according to his institution. And it is not strange that God should be displeased with a thing not done according to his institution, when the institution it self he doth approve and bless to some according to his free covenant.  
2. If by a false Church you understand a Church maimed and corrupt with errors in doctrine and manners, neglect of discipline, disorders in Ministers and people, then as occasion may be offered Christ hath bound the faithful to be present at his ordinances in such Assemblies, and promised to bless them that draw nigh unto him therein.  
In the Church of Corinth there were Divisions, Sects, Emulations, 
1 Cor. 3.3. 1 Cor. 6.1, 2. 2 Cor. 10.10. 1 Cor. 15.12. 1 Cor. 5.1. 1 Cor. 11.19, 20.  contentions and quarrels; going to Law one with another for every trifle, and that under Infidels. Paul's name and credit was despitefully called into question there, the resurrection of the dead was denied by some; that wickedness was there winked at, which was not heard of among the heathen; the Lord's Supper was horribly profaned, things indifferent used with offence, 
2 Cor. 12.20, 21. Ambr. in 1 Cor. 11 They stood striving for their oblations. Hier. in 1 Cor. 11. In Ecclesia convenientes oblationes suas separatius offerebant. Apoc. 2.4, 5, 6. Apoc. 3.20, 21.  Fornication not repent of, and idolatry practised in eating meats sacrificed to Idols in the Idol Temple. And all this notwithstanding, the assemblies were kept, the faithful frequented the Ordinances and God did bless them according to promise. Ephesus was extremely decayed in her first love, and though threatened to have her candlestick removed unless she repent, Christ doth never lay his charge upon the faithful to departed from his Ordinances. Of Laodicea it is said, that she was neither hot nor cold, and then we may easily conceive she was overgrown with corruptions, the proper fruits of negligence, security, self conceitedness, etc. For which unless she repent, a terrible judgement is denounced against her: and yet the faithful are never exhorted to flee from her society, but to repent of her sin, and the promise is made for encouragement, that if they open unto him, 
Apoc. 2.20.  he will come in and Sup with them, and they with him.  
If by a false Church you unde stand a visible society, wherein the fair greater part is corrupt in the profession of Faith concerning the Articles of Religion, and in the woe ship of God, by adding and detracting in the substaniall means, and transforming the object of worship itself; corrupt in the calling and ordination of Officers, the form of government, the Officers set a part for the work of God, and the lives and conversations of the members of that society: If in this sense the false Church be taken, than it may and hath fallen out for a long time together, that the true Church of God hath lain hid in the false, and that by God's allowance and approbation, 
Field of the Church lib. 3. cap. 8.  in which case the LORD commanded the faithful to be present at His Ordinances, and promised His blessing unto them, though administered in a corrupt Church and after a corrupt manner.  
The true Church in corrupt times hath been mixed with the false, not as actual members of that society as corrupt, but as they have been hid in that society, as good Corn overtopped with Weeds; or a little gold or purer metal in a great clod of Earth; God of his infinite mercy so providing for and preserving his poor people.  
In time of the judges the Israelites did every man that which seemed good in his own eyes, that is, 
judges 1.76. Sept. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Ad bujus loci similitudinem legitur in Sederzata sic, extitit seculum absque rege. joseph. lib. 5. c. 2. 1 Reg. 19, 10. Rom. 11, 3, 4. Hosea 4, 1, 6. 2 Par. 13, 5. Isa. 1, 2, 3, 4, 21, 22 29. Isa. 57, 3. Ezc. 14, 5. jer. 23, 8, 14 Lam. 4, 13, 14. Ier 2, 8, 11, 13. Sept. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. Verse 26, 27 Verse 29.  worshipped God as he pleased. The Prophets testify, that the Church did not only fail in Israel, but in judah likewise. I have brought up Children and they have rebelled against me. Ah sinful Nation, a people laden with iniquity, a corrupt seed. How is the faithful City become an Harlot! Thy silver is turned into dross, and thy Wine mixed wi●h water. They shall be confounded because of their Oaks wherein they delighted. The Land (viz. of judah) is filled with Idols, they worship the work of their Hands, the Priests said not, where is the Lord? and they that should minister the Law, knew me not saith the lord The Pastors also offended against me, and the Prophets prophesied by Baal, and went after things, that did not profit. My people have changed their glory for that which did not profit. My people have committed two evils; they have forsaken me the fountain of living waters, to dig them pits, even broken pits, that can hold no water. The house of Israel is confounded, they, and their Kings, and their Princes, and their Prophets, saying to the wood, Thou art my Father. All of you have forsaken me, saith the LORD, Her treacherous Sister judah feared not, but went and played the Harlot also. The backe-sliding Israel, 
jer. 3, 8, 11, & 11, 13, 14. Ezek. 16, 46, 47, 48, 51, 52. jer. 5, 1 & 6, 13, & 7, 28, & 9, 1. Isay 57, 3, 4.  hath justified herself more than treacherous juda. And as she was thus horribly corrupted with Idolatry, so with profaneness, impenitency, impudency in sinning, rebellion, stubbornness, oppression, and what not? But when all things were thus miserably disordered, the faithful in juda did not separate themselves from the Ordinances of Religion, or withdraw themselves into a distinct visible society from the rest. In the age before our Saviour's time it grew exceeding wicked again. 
Mat. 8.4. Mar. 5.36 Luke 7.4, 5, 9 Mat. 4.23. Mar. 1.21. Luke 4.6. john 18.20. Luke 2.22, 37, 41. jun. animad. in Bel. contr. 4. lib. 3. c. 16 s. 14.  But neither did our Saviour, nor his Disciples before his death take upon them to erect a new visible Church altogether distinct from the erring Synagogue, but lived in that Church and frequented the Ordinances, neither as absolute members of the Synagogue, nor yet as the visible Church distinct from it. But as visible members of that Primitive Church from which that Synagogue had degenerated.  
In the New Testament, 
2 Thes. 2.7. Revel. 17.5. Iniquitas sed mystica id est, pietatis nomine palliata. Gloss. ordinar. Syr. Mysterium iniqui jam incipit efficaz esse. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 est vis certa operandi, non autem significandi. Cham. panst. some. 2. lib. 16. cap. 7. Hesych. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, praeparatur, adornatur, instruitur. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 quoddam doctrinae, quod si 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 sumptum contrarium sit fidei, Cham. panst. tom. 2. l. 16. cap. s 5. 2 Thes. 2.3. Heb. 3.13. Matth. 13.25, 39 2 Cor. 11.3.13, 15. Jun. count. 4. lib. 3. cap. 16. Generalis decessio sen Apostasia dicitur universalis ant communis. Vniversalem negamus fore, semper igitur erit Ecclesia, quamvis lalens. Communem fore affirmamus, ut affirmat Paulus. jer. 28.16. & 29, 32. Sept. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Deut. 13.10.  the Apostle telleth us the mystery of iniquity began to work in his days: whereby he understands not common heresies, and corruption of manners, but some great and hidden thing begun in the Apostles time to creep on by degrees, not suddenly to vanish, but to continue for many ages, and to grow into an exceeding high mountain. As the mystery of godliness, which began presently after the fall, took it compliment by degrees, and that at a certain and appointed time: so it was in this also, which at the first was small, but grew as things durable by degrees into an exceeding huge bigness. The spirit hath foretold, that there should come an Apostasy or defection, not from the Roman Empire (for that was not opposite to Christ) but from the faith, and that not light or in some particular point, or for a short time (for such Haeretickes there had been already) but grievous, general, and of long continuance.  
That which the Prophet jeremy, when he speaketh of false Prophets and their Prophecies, calleth 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, that is, as the 70. translate it, and the thing itself requireth, a declining, a revolt or Apostasy, not every one, but that to which the authority of the true God is pretended.  
And so the departure from the faith is not a revolt to Gentilism, 
2 Tim. 4.1, 2. Aug. De Civ. Dei li. 26. ca 19 Quem refugam vocat, utique a Deo vero.  but a giving too easy heed and attention to some doctors professing, yet indeed corrupting the Christian Religion. As when it is said of Paul, that he taught Apostasy from the Law, the meaning is not that he had revolted to the Gentiles, or denied the Messiah, or the Law or the Prophets, but that under pretence of the Messiah he had polluted the purity of the doctrine of the Law and the Prophets. This Apostasy than was small in beginning, increased in time, 
Acts 21.21. Non statim desilitur a bonis initiis ad malum finem, sed per gradus pedetentim descenditur. P. Ramus Epist. ad Carolum Lotharing. an. 1570. De quindecim a Christo seculis, primum vereesse aureum, reliqua quò longius abscederent, esse nequiora atque deteriora. Vsser de siccess. ca 1. S. 8. Jam inde a principio Mysterium iniquitatis peragi caeperit, ut mirandum non sit, si seculie subsequentibus, nonnulla dectrinae pontificiae zizania sensim & sine sensu succreverint, a veteribus illis, aliud praesertim agentibus, minus animadversa. Euseb. Hist. l. 3. cap. 32. & lib. 4. cap. 22. Edit. Graec. Niceph. Hist. l. 4. ca 1. Neque corum qui praecesserunt virtutem assecutos, neque ita simplicers, ut magistri eorum, orationem consecutos esse.  and grew greater and greater, not perceived at first, not opposed by godly men, it possessed the successors of holy Teachers themselves. This corruption of the faith was so brought in by degrees, that the most vigilant could scarce discern it, when it was first sowed. The successors of Godly men received it, and the godly themselves for a great while groaned under it, for it was a clandestine Conspiracy and opposition of the faith, not directly but obliquely, not in express terms but by consequences.  
So that of the first fifteen ages of the Church of the New Testament, that cannot be denied which Carolus Lotharingus the Cardinal uttered in Porsiacâ responsione; That the first was golden, but the rest, the further they departed, the worse, and more corrupt they were. Whiles the Apostles lived the Church remained a Virgin, pure and uncorrupt: but within the three first ages from the rising of the Gospel, her health was crazed by errors in doctrine, superstitious abuses crept into the worship of God, breach of comely order in Government, and offences in life, whereof we find the Pastors to make large complaint. It cannot be denied but that they that succeeded the Apostles did excel in Piety and Godliness, but withal it is most certain they did neither attain the virtue of them that went before them, nor teach so purely and truly as their masters and instructors, as Nicephorus observeth; And what is said of Hunger in another matter is not unfitly applied to this purpose, few Children are like to their Parents.  
The liberty of man's will and dignity of works was too much advanced: Many thought the souls of the just should not see God until the day of judgement. The Sacrament of the Supper was ministered to infants, which abuse is reform by the Church of Rome herself: They dipped the Sacramental bread into the Wine sometimes, and so administered them together. 
Clem. Alex. storm. lib. 1. T. C. repl. 1 pag. 74. Maldonat. in Io. 6 Cypr. de laps. justin. Mart. apolog 2. Gyp. lib. 2. ep. 3 ad Caecilium or ep. 63. & epist. 48. Hieron. in Mar. cap. 14. Polydor. de inveator. rer. lab. 5. cap. 91. Just Mart. qu. 155. Basil. de Spir. Sanct. Of the controversy about the Feast Easter, See Eusch. lib. 5. cap. 23. Sozom. l. l. 7. cap. 15. Socrat. l. 5. cap. 22. Altars brought into the Church by Sixtus the second about 265.86. Sewide Apol. art. 3. div. 26. Tho. Beacon. 3. vol. Sup. print. Lond. 1562. Which others think came into the Church about the year, 590.  They carried it home with them, and laid it up in Chests to be received privately; Wine was mixed with water in the administration of the Sacrament of the Supper. Deacons preached. womans Baptised, Baptism was stained with superstitious rites and Ceremonies in daily use, many rites and Customs practised which had no ground in the Word of God, and sundry things observed as Apostolical, which were directly contrary to the Apostles Doctrine or example. Within two hundred years after Christ, there was crept into the Church many idle Ceremonies, and the simplicity of Christ's Ordinances refused. Each man as he had either credit or authority, presumed of himself to add somewhat to Christ's institution, and the flesh delighting in her own devices, 
Tertul. de Coron. Milit.  delivered the same with a straight charge, as if Christ Himself had taken order for it. In Tertullia's time we may find many strange inventions taken up in Baptism. Three dippings in the Water; Tasting Milk and Honey; Abstaining from all other washing for a seven night after. 
Cyp ep. 72. ad Bonifacium. Cyp ep. 34 Cyp. the laps. S. 4. Euseb. Hist. l. 8. c. 1  In Cyprians time there was consecration of water, and such estimation of oil, that no man was thought to be a Christian, that was baptised without it: of the memorial of Martyrs; and what blemishes appeared in the conversation of Christians, who list may read in Cyprian and others. 
Sabel. Enead. 7. l. 4. Nuda fuit abinitio anmis ceremoniarum ratio; plus pietatis babens quam apparatus. Osiand. Hist. Eccles. cent. 3. l. 3. cap. 11 Paulatim cerem niae auctae sunt, hominum superstitiosorum ●pinionibua●.   
In the three ages following, though the doctrine of salvation and substance of God's Worship, was maintained in all fundamental points, and the Omnipotency of the Pope was not known, nor Images worshipped, the Scripture was read and Prayers made in a known tongue; the Sacrament of the Supper was administered to the People in both kinds; men women and Children had free liberty to read the holy Scriptures, the Sacrament was not adored, nor the doctrine of Transubstantiation heard of. Nevertheless manifest seeds of Antichristianisme were sowed and began to appear in some strength. The state of the Church was lamentable, the corruptions many and great, both in respect of doctrine, worship, government, and holiness of conversation. 
Magdeburg cent. 4. cap. 6. col. 440. Subi●de magis magisque traditiones humanae cumulatae sunt, Per. in Rom. sec. 106. Aug. Enchirid●a● 110. Chrys. tom. 4. ad pop.. 66. in 1 Cor. 16. hom 43. Cham. panst●●. tom. 2 lib. 20. c. 5. sec. 19 Whitak. de Pontif. Rom Praef. ad auditores sec. 5. Br●ghtm. a pox. c. 4. 7. & 12, 6, 13, 15. Socrat. hist. 7. c. 11. About the year 430, the Roman and Alexandrian Bishops left the sacred function, & degenerated into secular rule, Euscb. de vila Constant. l. 4. c. 40, 43. Socrat. l. 1. c. 8, 22, & l. 4. c. 18. Arnob. advers. Gent. l. 8. Origen. count. Cet●● l. 7. Conc. Elib. c. 36. Calfeh. against Mart. Pref. to the reader. Chamier. pa●str. t. 2 l. ●6; c. 7, sic. 6. Bills. Christ. part. 14. pag, 351, etc. Gregor. l, 7. cp. 5 3, ad Secund. in & l. 9 cp. 9 Aug. epi. 118, 119, See Caranz. sum. Concil. fol. 43. justin Martyr, Tortullian, Clomens Romanus, Eactantius and others, were of opinion, that no particular judgement passed upon the Saints, until the last day, Sixt. Sen. Biblioth. l. 6. an. 345.  The Pastors of this age spoke more unwarily of justification, and grace, than was meet, prayer for the dead was ordinary, the foundation of prayer unto Saints, was laid and defended by the teachers themselves, with overgreat zeal, in the superstitious vigils, and frequenting the Sepulchers of Martyrs. The former profanation of the Sacraments by superstitious rites much increased, some whereof are abolished by the papists themselves. Liberty is taken from the Ministers, the Bishops contend among themselves, with ambition, hatred, affecting high titles and precedency, more than the good of God's Church, the pleasure of peace and security took away all care of godliness. Now they seek the relics of Saints, go on pilgrimage to jerusalem, consecrate Temples to Martyrs, esteem it more religion to build certain places and to pray in them, than in others, and to live by prescriptions and will-worship of Monks, etc. than to walk according to the rule of God's Word. Now they give themselves to corrupt religion, with idle and impure rites: Images that were not mentioned in the first and second ages of the Church, in the fourth, fifth, and sixth age, were brought into the Church in some parts, painted upon the walls, retained for Historical and Rhetorical use, to inform the understanding, and stir up devotion, and of some began to be worshipped, which Gregory himself disliked. Monks kept the communion at home, and wanting a priest, communicate themselves. No public assemblies could be found, in which the ordinances of God did flourish entirely. Augustine complained of the multitude of rites and ceremonies which were in his time, wherewith the Church was grievously burdened, but in the ages following was much more intolerable. Of the particular slips and errors of the ancients it is needless to say more.  
Here I would demand, was this Church all this while thus corrupted, the true church of Christ or a falls? was the true worship of God performed in these assemblies the true worship, or was it pernicious Idolatry? If a true Church, than a society, 
T. C. repl. 1. pag. 73  wherein corruption of Doctrine and of the Sacraments, hurtful Ceremonies, dominion and pomp of the clergy, new orders and functions of the Ministry, is to be found, may be the true Church of God. And what then can you object against the Church of England, to prove it a false Church? If a false Church, 
Fulk answer to the Rhem. in Eph 4.13 all the true Bishops of the primitive Church for six hundred years and more, after Christ, in all necessary points of doctrine agree with us, and therefore were ancestors of our Church. In the later times also for every age we can name divers pastors and teachers even in the most dark times, etc. Calfeh. against Mar. preface to the reader: Greg. epist. l. 7, indict. 2, c. 109. Council Nicen. a, but that Council was not generally received. Sigh. in an. 755. Roger Howden continuat. Beda anno 792. Feild of the chuteh l. 3, cap. 8. See Calfehil against Mart. art. 3. p. 58, 69, etc. Bilson Christian subject, part 4, page 316, 317. This was about the year of our Lord 1160. See Vsser de suceess. Eccles. History of the Waldenses, Daltha Lydia hist, Chaloner credo Eccles. part 2, sect. 2.  then either the faithful were bound to avoid all society and fellowship with it in the ordinances, which a sober minded man will not affirm: or all communicating with a false Church in the ordinances of God, is not pernicious idolatry. The faithful which lay hid in this corrupted state of the Church, and did partake in the ordinances of worship, were never held and reputed Idolaters,  
In the ages following the mystery of iniquity did grow amain, for the worship of Images first began, and after was concluded, the Pope obtained to be called head of the universal Church, Saints were invocated as Mediators, the Communion was mangled and delivered in one kind, the merit and dignity of works advanced to the prejudice of God's grace; the doctrine of real presence, and oral eating of Christ's flesh in the Sacramant by good and bad, and the adoration of the Eucharist, was taught and received. These gross corruptions prevailed for a time in the Church, before they were concluded upon in Synods or Counsels, opposed by some, condemned by others, and manfully withstood, especially the worshipping of Images. During which time the faithful who condemned these abominations did lie hid in the Church, keeping themselves undefiled from these errors, but separated not themselves from the ordinances of grace, nor gathered themselves into a distinct body.  
After these abominations were concluded, the first that separated themselves were the Waldenses, Albigenses, or poor men of Lions, who withdrew themselves from the society of the Roman Synagogue, and worshipped God in distinct companies according to his will. These are reported to be men of sound life and god linesse, by the testimony of very enemies themselves, notwithstanding they were most shamefully traduced, and grievously persecuted for Christ's sake.  
But after this separation made by them, 
If sheep in a pasture, where venomous herbs are mixed with wholesome, can by the instinct of nature make choice of that which is proper for them, and abstain from the contrary; what marvel is it if the flock of Christ, who know the voice of the true Shepherd from the voice of strangers, should by the guidance of Gods assisting spirit do the same, Chaloncredo, Cameron, de Eccles. ca de schism, See Field of the church. l. 3 〈◊〉 6, 8. Carleton descript. ca 1, p. 8.  divers other godly men did patiently endure the tyranny of Antichrist and groaned under that heavy yoke, bewailing the misery, and reproving the sins of the time, sought to reclaim others, and labour to keep their own selves free, but did not actually separate from the society. And this (as the learned judge) was done, if not by God's commandment, at least by gracious indulgence. Until the time of the Trent Council (saith one) the Church although oppugned with errors and deceits of divers kinds, oppressed with tyranny, did not patiently endure the tyranny of the Pope, and the impudence of the Fraterculi. And though oftentimes before they had thought of separation, yet they could never effect it, until that was fulfilled which the Scripture had foretold.  
It is here to be further noted, that neither the Waldenses, who first separated, nor the reformed Churches which in after times cast off the yoke of Antichrist, and abolished his Idolatry, did make such a pure and perfect reformation in all things as was to be desired. And therefore if they be measured by your meat-wand, they must all lie under the censure of false and idolatrous Churches, who worship God with a false and Idolatrous worship, or else you must confess your great words of false Church and false constitution to bear no weight, or to be a mere slander.  
If you will tell us distinctly what you mean by false Churches you shall see your whole building to fall of itself. For, if you understand thereby every Church, that labours under some disorder, or corruption in gathering and constitution, doctrine, or discipline it is apparently false. If you mean that the better part may not oft lie hid under the worse, the true Church in the corrupt, which may join in the use of God's holy worship by his approbation and with promise of blessing, than the proposition is cross to the main current of Scripture. If by a false Church you understand that whose doctrine and worship is corrupt in the very main grounds and essentials of faith and worship necessary to salvation, your assumption hath no truth in it.  
May you therefore be pleased here to take notice of that which you observe, 
CAN Stay. ag. §. 4. p. 33, 34.  as a clear difference between truth and falsehood, between Christ's iustitutions and men's inventions. Whatsoever God will have us to do or not to do, he lays down the same openly, 
Prov. 8.7 1 Timothy 4.1  precisely, manifestly. All the words of his mouth, are plain to him that understandeth. The Spirit speaketh expressly, etc. that the truth is simple and plain. Ethnics by the light of nature, could sufficiently see into such things, one of them touching this matter saith thus, The truth is simple and plain, and needs not variety of windlaces. Another of them hath these words, That phrase or form of speaking hath truth in it, 

Cyp. Epist. ad Pomcont. Epist. Stepha. It cometh of too much presumption and frowardness, that a man had rather defend his own, though it be false and nought, than yield to another's deeds and words.  
Resist not truth to maintain your credit, God will surely revenge it, Bilson differing, part 1, page 69.  
Contigit saepe ut idem pastor sit vero pastor, & non sit vere postor secundum vocationem ligitimam; non vere pastor, scundum administrationem, operationemque ipsius. Hieron. ad Heliodor.  
Non omnes Episcopi sunt episcopi: attend Petrum, sed judam considera Grat. 2. q. 7. c. Non omnes. Ecclesia aliquandt visibiiis est, non tantum cum defectibus multis in doctrina, disciplina, sacramentis, & administrandi ratione, sed etiam cum variis impuris misturis: ita ut Ecclesia sit visibilis, cum tamen ecclesia ralis, quaew in omnibus sequituto possimus sit invifibilis. Ames Bellar, enerv. tom. 2, lib. de Eccles.   which is common and used of all, having in it nothing craftily devised, neither cloaking some other thing than is professed. Contrariwise when Satan speaketh by his instruments, he speaketh so ambignously, and cloakedly, that one knoweth not how to take it, nor which way to apply it. And so you go on in many words to the like purpose, which if you will apply to your own manner of disputing and alleging testimonies, You shall discover yourself to be the deceiver, who affect ambiguous and equivocal speeches, and seek by mists, and fogs of strange and unusual arguments and sentences wrested to a contrary sense, to blind the eyes, and puzzle the understanding of the simple. For you hid yourself under the terms of, false ●●●ch, false ministry, false Prophets, false worship, flying from 〈◊〉 latry, taking heed of idols, etc. which you have taken u●●n a peculiar sense; and running along in that strain, you pervert the Scriptures, wrong Authors, confound things to be distinguished, dispute sophistically: and whiles you boast of clear proof, divine precepts, example and practice of forefathers, from the first age of the world hitherto, positions holden in all Schools, written in all books, preached every day in Sermons, taught in all Churches, you do only raise a dust to daisle the eye: for let the matter be looked into, and you have neither precept divine, nor example of godly forefather to justify your separation. What you teach hath been evermore condemned in Schools, cried down in Sermons, disallowed in all Churches of the Saints, from the very beginning to this day.    

CAN. Stay. Sec. 5. pag. 41, 42. & Sect. 6. pag. 86  
To hear Antichr, stian Ministers in their unlawful assemblies, is superstition and will-worship. Therefore it is sin to do it. The first proposition is grounded upon, Levit. 10.1, 2. and the same is without exception. The second proposition is thus proved. 1. From the nature of superstition which is as Zanchie describes it, a taking into the worship of God more than he requires in his worship. 2 According to the Schoolmen, that is superstition, when divine worship is not exhibited, either to the person it should be, 
Li. 1 de cult. extern. oppos. col. 501, 502 Aq. 2. 2 ae q. 92, art. 1  or not in the way or manner it ought. And this is held to be a sound truth by all Orthodox Divines. 3 This hearing cannot be free of superstition, in regard men are present at false worship. 

Jdem sect. 5. pag. 75 Whosoever takes to himself a practice, which is not grounded on God's word, and is strict therein, he is just overmuch, and presumeth above that which is written: and this is their ease who hear unlawful Ministers for edification.  
And a little before i● the same page. The hearing stood for, is a spiritual eating with Idolaters, and men cannot receive the food without pollution. And page 80, 81. Herein men worship God, b●y and in a way and means which Idolaters will have instituted.   The which presence (as the learned write) is a certain communication therewith. 4 It is a great superstition to approve, countenance; or give honour to any of the ways of Antichrist. They that are sincere christians (saith Bucer) cannot abide any thing that is his, etc. 5 It is vicious and superstitious to symbolise with idolaters. The Scriptures forbid●t, and the Saints in all ages have carefully shunned it. 6 Superstition is committed, when more estimation is had of a thing, more dignity and excellency placed in it; and more regard had to it, than God alloweth, or can stand with his will.  

ANSWER.  
You roll the same stone up and down. Is there any thing here for substance, but what hath been repeated oft, but not proved once? You talk of superstition, false worship, idolatry, giving honour to the ways of Antichrist, and such like great abominations. But if we call for proof of these accusations, you are glad to fly off, and to play least in sight. Superstition, false worship, idolatry is unlawful, that you can say, and no man will deny it. But that it is false worship, idolatry, or superstition to hold communion in our assemblies in the ordinances of grace, in this if your bare word, will not be received, here is nothing to bear you out.  
This reason therefore, that is, for the substance thereof nothing but a new furbishing over of the same broken staff, might well be passed over in silence. But lest the credulous reader should conceit it is slighted, because it containeth some matter of importance, I will in few words lay open the weakness and vanity thereof. First you translate the Schoolmans' words (vel cui non debet, vel non eo modo quo debet) very improperly, when divine worship is not exhibited, either to the person it should be, etc. and indeed make his speech absurd or senseless. For it was never imagined to be superstition, not to exhibit divine worship to God, but Atheism or profaneness rather. You say, superstition is that which is done supra statutum, when more estimation is had of a thing, more dignity placed in it than is meet; which is contrary to the not exhibiting of divine honour to God: but this is your common practice. 2. Your reasons to prove it superstition to hear Antichristian Ministers in their false assemblies (as you style them) are none of the best, 
If there were no more but giving obedience to such ordinance, as are imposed with a necessity upon us, & that merely for conscience of the ordinance it is enough to infect the actions with superstition. A dispute against Engl. popish. part 1. ca 3. p. 9 Calvin. Instit. l. 4. c. 10. §. 16, 27, 29. Aug. confess. ca de discyimin● ciborum.  though all should be granted which you desire, for though it be no particular ordinance in respect of time or place, yet it followeth not that it is superstition: For if for substance the duty be of God, it may be done without superstition, when it is not in particular commanded. May not the case fall out, that it is free for a man whether he will hear the word at such a time, or follow the duties of his calling? and if he do the one or the other, in so doing he is not to be deemed superstitious? To place opinion of necessity, holiness, or worship, in that which God hath not instituted or sanctified, is superstition. But to do this or that act which is commanded or allowed of God, cannot be called superstition, though in some particular circumstance above mentioned, it be no particular ordinance. You say, whosoever takes to himself practice, 
Chemnit. Exam part. 2. in Sess. 13. can. 10. Calvin de neces. reform. Eccles. Quum putarentur observatu necessariae esse hominum leges, corrigi debuit perniciosus hic error, etc. Ch●mier. panstr. tom. 4. de Eus. l. 6, c. 4, sect. 3, 4. Magdeb. praef. 7. cen. It is not lawful for civil Magistrates to devise forms of Religion in destruction of the truth and so to reconcile truth and error that they may both be lulled asleep. They may not prescribe religion, alone, they must not engender new articles of faith, they must not strangle the truth with error, nor shackle it when it is revealed that they may let lose the bridle of corruption, etc. Matthew 4. 9 See Par. in loc. Luke 4.7. 2 Chroni. 11.15 1 Cor. 10.20 Rev. 9.20 1 Tim. 4.1  which is not grounded upon God's word, and is strict therein, he is just overmuch, why do you add, (and is strict therein) if every act simply not commanded be superstition?  
And if by such hearing a man did approve, countenance, or give honour unto any the ways of Antichrist, or did symbolize with Idolaters, yet could not this hearing be condemned as will-worship, or superstition, unless the breach of every commandment be will-worship, or superstition. Men may be superstitious, in the use of Antichristian rites or devices, and so they may in the use of their own devices, yea of the ordinances of God themselves. But whosoever doth countenance or approve any of the ways of Antichrist, he is not therein (though he break the commandment some other way) superstitious or a wil-worshipper.  
3 If superstition be committed when more estimation or regard is had to a thing, than God alloweth, or can stand with his will revealed in his word, beware, lest you convince yourself superstitious in an high degree. For when you magnify your Church order and constitution as an ordinance of that absolute necessity, as that God cannot lawfully be worshipped, in any other society or assembly, and that none other Church is true. You place more excellency and dignity in it, and give more estimation and regard unto it, than God alloweth in his word. I might add, that in many particulars you advance your own imaginations, as the necessary and holy ordinances of God, which if it be not idolatry, at least is superstition in your language. Observable it is (you say) whereas one Evangelist setting down the Tempter's words to Christ, saith, worship me, another hath it, worship before me, showing it is all one to worship before the Devil or to worship him. Whereupon you add, now he is worshipped when Idols are worshipped, or any false institution is observed, or practice used; which if it was true, I should not fear to charge you as a pernicious idolater, or worshipper of the Devil: But I will not make use of such leaden weapons, 
CAN. Stay. Sect. 4. page 63.  For it is a most notorious and gross absurdity: For if every false institution and practice be the worship of the Devil, it must necessarily follow, that every error concerning the worship of God, concerning the commandments of the first table, is the worship of the Devil, which a Christian should blush to speak, and ab●●ere to hear.  
4 In your esteem all Churches are false which are not constituted after your manner, and all Ministers Antichristian, who are not called and ordained by that particular congregation where they are to administer: and being so taken, I answer. It is neither superstition nor will-worship to hear Antichristian Ministers (in your stile, but indeed the true lawful approved Ministers of Jesus Christ) in their Assemblies. To hear or to communicate with them, is not to approve or honour any Antichristian way, or sembolize with idolaters: but to approve maintain and exercise purely the ordinances of grace, to yield obedience to God's commandment, to regard, honour and esteem what bee alloweth and honoureth, and to worship him, both for matter (and manner according to his will. The precepts, promises and institution of God, 
Ames. Bell. E●●●tem. 2. l●●de ●cc●notis. 〈…〉 catus ille in quo christus adest, dum demonstratur ubi sit Christus. Ille autem caetus est ecclesia, christus erim ambulat inter 7. candelab●●, quae sunt 7. ec●lesie.  the approved practice of the Saints, from the beginning of the world unto this day, doth plentifully warrant this practice to be holy, profitable and necessary, in respect of divine institution. This doctrine hath evermore been professed in all Churches, defended by Orthodox Divines, taught in Sermons, received by the Faithful, and most plainly confirmed by the Scriptures. But not to repeat so many things spoken already, I proceed to examine what you have to say out of the Nonconformists against our Ministry, in respect of their orders and degrees.     

SECTION 6.  

CAN. Necess. of Separation, Pag. 37.  
IF the calling and office of their bishops be (as the Nonconformists say it is) of the earth, false, devilish Antichristian, etc. than it follows, that the calling and office of the whole Ministry must necessarily be of the same nature, qualities and condition, to wit of the earth false, devilish, and Antichristian, etc. which is wholly derived from it, which receives, I say, and takes it life and being of it only, and no where else, For if their Bishops have not a right power in themselves, then can they not transfer it to another, As the law saith, Nemo potest plus juris transfer in ahum, 
Regul. juris. 79.  quam sibi competere dignoscatur, No man can give more to another, than he hath himself. If Corah, Dathan, and Abitam, when they usurped the priesthood and government of the Church, should (by that false power which they assumed) have ordained some of the people unto the Priest's office, no doubt all the Israelites which feared God, would have judged their place and standing unlawful, because they which made them had no commission from God so to do. The case of their Ministry is just so.  

ANSWER.  
IF some things of men be mixed with that which is of God, as the holy Sacraments with humane rites, and humane pomp and glory, with the Ministry that is from above, a prudent Christian must separate one from another, and not cast away what is of God as a nullity, fruitless, unprofitable, defiled, because somewhat humane is annexed to them. Accidental defects or superfluities, in, or about the Ministry, do not destroy the nature and substance of the Ministry.  
In the office and calling of Bishops, two things are to be considered.  
1 The substance of their office and Ministry whereunto they are separated, to wit, to preach the Gospel, dispense the Sacraments and administer the discipline of Jesus Christ; 
Hieron. in epist. ad Tit. ca 1. & ad Evag. epist. 2. Bilson chr. part. 2. pag. 318, 319. Calv. tract. deneces. reform. eccles. Calvin. instit. l. 4, c. 4. sect, 1.2, 4, 15. Zanch. in 4. praeteptum to●, 732, 733. Forb. Irenic, l. 2, prop, 7, 8, 9, 10.  and this is of God.  
2 The superiority they take or challenge over their brethren, which makes not a difference or nullity in the substance of their ministry; and this is of men. All Ministers of the Gospel are stewards of Jesus Christ, set apart to do his work, wherein if any one shall challenge more than of right appertaineth unto him; or do aught out of pride, partiality, sinister affection, tyranny or sedition: or receiveth such authority to himself alone, as belongeth not to his place and office, or is common to many; in that he is blameworthy: but thereupon his Ministry or ministerial acts done by him, are not made void and of none effect.  
Thus the Church of England, 
The institution of a Christian man c. of the Sacram. of Orders. jewel apol. def. par. 2. c. 3. div. 1, 5 etc. 9 div. 1. in 1 Tim. 3. in 1 Tim. hom. 11 Qu. ex utroque Testamento ca 100  at least the prime maintainers of Religion, against the Papists have taught, That there is little or no difference betwixt a Bishop and a Presbyter: to which purpose jewel citys many passages out of the Ancient Fathers; as of Ambrose, there is one Ordination of a Bishop and a Presbyter: Chrys. betwixt a Bishop and a Presbyter there is almost no difference. Aug. what is a Bishop, but the first or chief Presbyter. And both Conformists and Non-confor●●ists agree in this, that ministers rightly qualified with gifts, and preaching the doctrine of salvation purely, be the Ministers of jesus Christ, whether ordained by Bishops or the Eldership. 
Forb. Iren. l. 2. c. 11 prop. Carleton de Eccl. c. 11. p: 283.284. D. Field of the Church lib. 3. c. 39 T. C. repl. 1. p. 82. There being great resemblance between the Popedom and Archbishop, I mean having regard to the bare functions, without respecting the Doctrine good or bad, which they uphold, there is yet great difference between the persons which execute them. P. Lombard l. 4. sen. didst. 24. Capreol. in 4. sent. didst. 2. qu. 1. Episcopatus non est alius distinctus ordo a sacerdotio, Bonavent. in 4 sent. didst. 24. art. 2. qu. 3. Th. Aqui. 3. suppl qu. 40. art. 5.  They that hold Bishops by Divine right greater than Presbyters, and that the power of Ordination belongeth unto them, do yet acknowledge Ordination, given by the Eldership to be true, by the judgement of the Catholic Church. And they that maintain the equality of Bishops and Presbyters by the Word of God, deny not those Ministers to be of God, who teach sound doctrine, and feed the flock of God committed to their charge, though they received Ordination from Bishops.  
The learned among the Papists themselves freely confess, that that wherein a Bishop excelleth a Presbyter, is not a distinct and higher order or power of order, but a kind of dignity or office and employment only. Episcopacy is not another order distinct from the Priesthood, saith Capreolus. No Prelate hath more concerning Sacramental power, or of order, than simple Priests. So Armachanus. As concerning Sacerdotal order, 
Armach. l. 11. Dom. a Soto l. 10. the just. & jure q. 1. art. 2. & the 4. dist. 24, q. 2 art 3 Darand. in 4, sent. didst. 24, qu 5. Staple. relect. contr. 2 qu. 3, art. 3. Bellar. de Cler. l. 1. c 11, s. 14. cusan. concord. l. 2. c. 13.  and things that pertain to order, they are equal. Thus Bellarmine himself. Although a Bishop and Presbyter are distinguished, yet as concerning Sacrifice they exercise the same ministry, and therefore they make one order and not two. Cusanus goeth further. All Bishops and haply also Presbyters are of equal power in respect of jurisdiction, although not of execution: which executive exercise is shut up and restrained by certain positive Laws. And johannes de Parisijs, de potost. Regal. & Papal. ca 10. Some say a Presbyter hath the same power in his Parish, that a Bishop hath in his Diocese. From which their confession it will evidently follow that Ministers ordained by Presbyters, to whom the care and government of the Church belongeth are true Ministers. 
In Alexandria and all Egypt, the Presbyters gave Ordination, when a Bishop was not present, as Augustine & Ambrose both confess. Ambr: ad Eph. c, 4, August. Quest, Nov, & vet. 4, 101, Concil. Nicen, can. 4, Concil. Arelatens. 2. c. 5. Con Affris. can, 16 Bellar. de Eccl. l, 4, c. 8, s. Ex quo. Gratian Decr: dist. 23 c. 8, Theodoret hist lib. 5, c. 23. Socrates hist. lib, 4, c. 35, Gr. Johan. Major, in 4 sent: didst, 25, qu. 3 inter oper: Gerson: Paris: 1606 p. 681 Greg: 1, lib. 12, ep. 31. indict 7. Bedal, 1, c, 27. Gratian. 1, par: didst. 93, ca, 24, & didst. 95, can: 5. Gratian: par. 2, c, 9 cue, 2, c. Lugdunens': Calvin: Justit: l, 4 c, 2, s. 11. Chamier panstr: Tom, 2, l, 16 cap. 4, S. 9 jun: animad: in Bel de cleric. c, 14, not. 2, &c, 3, not. 59, Chamier: Ibid: c. 6, s. 11. Sed Catholici negaut consquentian, & sciunt posse illa omnia extare in media haeresi, & inter Apostatas: Quod si nostri negari incipient Apostatae, cur Fararius, cur ejus Maecenas, Jacobus Davius nunc Cardinalis, non renunciarunt Baptismo apud nos (quos ille disputat apostasiam fecisse) recepto: & non jusserunt se denuo thing?? Author. imperfect. oper. in Mat. hom. 49. Omnia haes, quae sunt proprie Christi inberitate, habent & haereses illae inschismate: similiter Ecclesias, similiter & ipsas Scripturas Diviras: similiter Episcopos, caterosque ordines Clericorum: similiter Eucharistiam, & caetera omnia, etc.   
And hereof the grounds and reasons are evident. For on the one side it appeareth, the Ancient Church did not hold her Constitutions to be absolutely essential to the calling of a Minister or to the semper esse thereof, as if the omission or non-observation thereof did make them no Ministers. Bishops by the Ancient Constitutions of the Church were to be ordained by three other Bishops near adjoining: But instances there be manifest, that the Church hath dispensed with these Canons. Pelagius the first (as Anastasius writeth in vitâ Pelagij) was consecrated of two Bishops only. johannes de Perusio, & Bomu de Ferentino, & Anareas' Presbyter de Ostio, Evagrius Bishop was consecrated of Paulinus only. Moses refusing to be ordained of Lucius was created Bishop of them who were banished into the mountains. The Bishops of France only Dionysius ordained. It is an humane constitution, saith johannes Major, that a Bishop should be ordained of three, invented for solemnity, not as absolutely necessary. Presbyters or Elders were ordained by the Bishop. The rest of the Presbyters then present laying on their hands. But seeing Bishops were greater than Presbyters, rather by the Custom of the Church, than by divine institution, this was not simply required to the essence of ordination; but according to the Custom and Ecclesiastical Ordinances. The Chorepiscopi also who were nothing but Presbyters, were allowed to ordain by the leave of the Bishop.  
And on the other side, if they be not lawful Ministers who receive their Ordination from Bishops, the Churches of God throughout the world, have been destitute of lawful Ministers for the space of this fourteen or fifteen hundred years, which the Non-conformists will never affirm. As Rome itself is a Church, as the Church is opposed to Turks, and Infidels, and as Heretics, specially they whose opinions are not in specie (as they say) pernicious, 
CAN Stay. § 2. pag. 11.  are the Church: So in Rome and amongst Heretics, so much truth of Ministry is found, as the acts they do are not void altogether and of none effect.  
The doctrine of the Nicolaitaus (which was, that adultery and fornication were no sins, and that men might communicate with the sacrifices of Idolaters in their Idol Temples. Iren. l. 1. c. 27. Epiphan. 1. Tom. 1.) Was not (you say) in the judgement of the Churches at Pergamus & Thyatira esteemed as a thing that might not be born withal. If Pergamus and Thyatyra, so grievously corrupted were true Churches, The receiving of Ordination from the hands of a Bishop doth not so leaven the Ministry as to make a nullity thereof, or make it unlawful for others to join therewith in the worship of God.  
A Bishop ordained per saltum, 
P. Aureolus in 4. Sent. didst. 24, art. 2 Capreolus dist: 25 art, 2. Cusan. concord: cathol. lib. 1. cap, 4. Membrum suo officio non contentum, sed cupicus prae ripere alienum, conturbat corporis ordinem totum, etc. sic singulorum ornamenta non sunt alijs congrua, sed unumquodque requirit sua, & abijcit aliena. Gratian. dist. 89, cap. 1. They that hold the Office of Bishops to be of GOD, do hold, that the Church ceaseth not to be a Church, in which this degree is not to be found.  that never had the Ordination of a Presbyter, can neither consecrate and administer the Sacrament of the Lords Supper, nor ordain a Presbyter, himself being none, nor do any act peculiarly appertaining to Presbyters. Ordination therefore is reserved to the Bishop, not in respect of superiority in degree of ministry above his brethren, for if he be no Presbyter he cannot make Presbyters, but for order sake and to prevent Schism and division, being for substance of the same order and Consecration with them. If one member in the body challenge to itself that office which belongeth to many, it breeds some disorder and confusion, but makes not a nullity of that which is done.  
Succession in the Apostles Doctrine is an essential and unchangeable note of the Church, which wheresoever it is found, doth argue truth of ministry in that society, for the Preaching of the Word and administration of the Sacraments, to draw men to internal Communion. For that particular Church is the true Church of Christ which retaineth unity with the Catholics, sc. the unity of the head, the unity of the body, the unity of Doctrine, and unity of the Spirit. 
johan. Major l. 2. hist de gest: Scotor. cap. 2. scribit, Scotos per sacerdotes & Monachos sine Episcopis in fide eruditos esse usque ad An. Dom. 429. adeo ut Ecclesia scotitae plusquam: 230 annos floruerit absque regimine Episcopali, Nam Religionem Christianam suscepit Scotiae An. Dom. 203. ficu● consentiunt Historic● omnes Ames. Bel enerv. tom 2. de Eccles. Forb: Iren. lib, 2. cap. 11, prop. 10. Bilson perpetual Church Government Epistle to the Reader. I have always had before mine eyes, the most of them are Brethren for the truth's sake, &c A. W. Answer to late popish Articles page 73. jun animadv. in Bel count. 5, l. 1. cap. 3. The right and power of giving Ordination to the Ministers of the Church, belongeth primarily & wholly to Christ, who communicateth the same with his Bride the Church. Both the Bridegroom for his part, and the Bride for her part, have delivered this power of Ordination to the Presbytery jure divino, afterward the Presbytery conferred jure humano this power upon them, who were specially called Bishops, etc.  Aerius was called an Heretic in the time of Epiphanius, not for his opinion, but for his separation which he made together with it. For so the Fathers of the first Constantinopolitan Council, Can. 6. which in the book of Canons is 169. Haereticos autem dicimus eos qui olim ab Ecclesia abdicati sunt, & qui postea a nobis anathemati 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉: praeter hos autem & qui se sanam quidem fidem profiteri 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 subassumunt, segregaverunt autem sese & adversus Canonicos nostros Episcopos congregationem faciunt.  
Howsoever therefore the Non-conformists dissent from others touching the Office and calling of Bishops: as it is esteemed a degree of ministry above Pastors and Ministers of the whole Diocese, who leave the care of Preaching to particular flocks, unto others, and challenge that as peculiar to themselves which is common to others, or properly belongeth to many: yet they never denied the word Preached by them that profess the entire faith, and the Sacraments administered by them, to be the true effectual Ordinances of jesus Christ. And most that approve the calling of Bishops, deny not that there may be a Presbytery, but that a Presbytery is so fit for a Monarchy, being of opinion, that the form of government is left to the discretion of every Church. And both sides profess, that there is not any difference betwixt them, which may either deprive them of salvation by the death of CHRIST, or bar them from living brotherly and Christianly as members of one and the same Church.  
It is a rule, you say. That no man can give more to another than he hath himself. But this rule of Law is unskilfully applied, or else while you dispute against one false ministry you set up another, or destroy the ministry altogether. For the community of the faithful have not power to preach the Word, or administer the Sacraments, and he that derives his authority from them, which they have not to give, is no true Minister. If they be false Ministers, who derive their authority from them that have it not, than they that derive it from the Church as the Primitive and immediate subject must go in that number. For the Church hath not that authority, and she cannot give what she hath not. 
Bellar. de Sacram. I. 1. ca 26. Hussilae ordinationes sacerdetum a Romano pontifice petere consueverant. Hier. in Dialog. advers. Luciferian. Luciferiani admittebant baptisma collatum ab hereticis, sed non ordinationem. Bel. ubi supra. johan 12. a Leone 8. antipapa schismatico ordinatos dicere compulit, pater meus nihil habuit sibi, nihil mihi dedit. Nic. 1. Ep. 1. Si execrabilis utique & non and bilis, sinon audibilis inefficax. Euseb. hist. l. 7. c. 2, 3, 4, 8, & H●rm. Conf. conf. Behem. art. 12. de Bapt. Grat. par. 2, c, 1. q. 1 c. 30.31, 32, 33 &c 40, 46, 47. Bel. de facr. l. 1, c, 26, & de Eccl. l. 3. c, 9 §. Resp. igitur. jun. animadv. Contr. 4, l, 3, c, 9 not. 1.1. Greg. Naz. orat. 40 Sint duo annuli, alter aureus, alter serreus Cal. Instit. l. 4. c. 15 s. 16. & Antidote. council. Trid. ad can. 12.  The Classis or Presbytery (you will say) hath no authority to ordain a Minister, which is to administer in another congregation, and he that derives his authority from them that have it not to give, is no true Minister. If the people and guides of the Church both consent, they have no authority to call or consecrate an unlearned, covetous, profane, heretical Minister, and he that derives authority from them that have it not to give, is no Minister, and that which is done by him is of no validity, his prayers are not heard, the Sacraments administered by him are not seal of the covenants or internal communion with Christ or his faithful people. A false Church or ministry hath no power to call and ordain a Minister or to give him power to preach the pardon of sins, or dispense the seals of grace; and the authority granted by them that have it not is a mere blank. These and such like are the proper consequences of this rule misapplyed; All which no fort of Christians ever admitted as sound and true. The Papists are very forward to challenge the reformed Churches as no true Churches, because they have no true Ministers, but such as were ordained by Heretics or are fallen into heresy. And yet when they have spent their breath they dare not deny, but baptism administered by Heretics who hold entire the form of Baptism, is true, and so the Lords Supper and ordination likewise: For the impiety of the Minister cannot pollute the purity of divine mysteries, neither shall they be ineffectual to the children of God, although dispensed by judas the Traitor. Heretics have not (saith Bellarmine) the remission of sins formally; but they have it ministerially, as a servant who hath not one farthing of his own, may carry many thousands of his Masters to some other man. In things natural and artificial the effect is not like to the instrument, but to the principal cause; as heat is the instrument of fire, though it have not the substantial form of fire, and the baptism which is administered, and the word which is preached of wicked men, is not the baptism or word of wicked men, but of Christ. Anatolius was consecrated of Dioscorus, Felix of the Arians. See Gratian: decret. cap. 1. qu. 1. cap. 32.33, 34, 35, 36. 37, 47.  
Every Minister of the Gospel derives his authority, gifts and office immediately from jesus Christ; the Church, people, patron, Presbytery or Bishop are only Stewards to set him in Office, whom the Lord hath designed; 
Aug. Confess. art. 8. Gratian. dist. 19 can. 8. Cusan. concord. Cathol. lib. 1. cap. 5. Ex quo nunc apparet ad salutem membrorum Ecclesiae, fictos in exercitu existentes, effectualiter ministrare Bilson Christian sub j part 3. p. 102. AARON was called to that office not by Moses, but by God Himself, though he were anointed by Moses hands, Heb. 5. Cath. Cons. p. 130. Yates model. of Divinity, page 257. Mason: Success. of Bishops, published by authority a●. 1614  wherein if any one or all of them shall challenge more than of right appertaineth to them, or do aught out of partiality seditiously, tyrannically or disorderly, in so doing they deserve blame, but that which is done is not in every respect void, and of none effect, as it hath been showed at large. The power of ministration is received from Christ and not derived from men either formally or virtually, for they have it not to give: but the designation of the person, is by m●n ministerially or instrumentally.    

Can. Neces. of Separate. Pag. 38.  
The Conformists keep much better to their grounds than the other do. For they profess down right that their ministry is from the Church of Rome, so that if the Popish Bishops, Priests and Deacons be good, theirs be good also, they being from them. Now no doubt these men do well perceive that their ministry cannot possibly be justified unless it be by this way of dispute. In this respect their judgement and practice is one, and so fare they are to be commended, and I verily think, that if they were sure that the ministry brought into the Land by the Prelates from Rome is false and Antichristian, as the Nonconformists affirm it to be, that many of them would not hereafter ever have any spiritual communion with it. Truly it would make a man admire if he should understandingly compare together the writings of these two companies, touching a Church ministry. For in their opinious about it, they are as contrary each to other, as light to darkness, Christ to Belial, righteousness to unrighteousness, notwithstanding though so different in judgement, yea they will communicate together in one ministry; but one of these against knowledge offend surely, let them look well to it. For to him that knoweth to do good and doth it not, to him it is sin, that is, his fault is so much the more, and propertionably his condemnation shall be without repentance.  

ANSWER.  
Instead of sound arguments, we have here your rash and unadvised censure, the one of these (you say) against knowledge offend surely.  
But what evidence can you bring to justify this condemnatory sentence? or how can you reconcile yourself unto yourself herein? 
CAN Necess. of separat. page 30. August. de civ. Dei lib. 5. c. 17. Nihil est loquacius vanitate, quae non ideo potest quod vantas; quia si volue it, plus etiam clamare potest quam veretas.  Here you tell us, the Conformists many of them at least offend not against their Conscience, and formerly you express your Charity to the Non-conformists, that although their practice is not strictsie answerable to their profession, and therefore do give just occasion to the Prelates to insinnate against them hypocritical ends: yet you for your part are other wise minded than the Bishops in this thing, and do think that they do of Conscience condemn the state of that Church: but do not maturely consider the responsive conclusions which follow upon their principles. These were your thoughts then, and what should occasion this sudden change? And if you will weigh what you have written, of necessity you must accuse yourself of gross inconsiderateness in saying you know not what, and perverting men's words of all sorts, or of sin against Conscience if you writ what you know to be false. Considering how you deal in both your books throughout, I scarce know an Author, who hath more need to look home than yourself.  
It is true the Conformists and Non-conformists have written on both sides one against the other in matters of Church Government and Ceremonies, (and perhaps with bitterness more than beseemeth) wherein always the forwardest men have not been of the greatest judgement or best moderation: And therefore every thing that is written must not be interprered as the judgement of all, or most of either side, but as the private opinion of the penman; which falleth out in all controversies amongst all sorts. But whatsoever outcry you make of contrarieties, there is no point of that weight and moment, controverted betwixt them, as might justly hinder communion together in the Ordinances of Religion. If their contention had broken forth to such an head, they might have been answered more justly, the one or both sides, to offend of fury, if not against conscience.  
The Conformists (you say) keep much better to their grounds than the other do, 
Calfeh. against Mar. cap. 1. pag. 21. b. Somebuild timber, and hay, and stubble, yet must we not take the hope of God's mercy from such evil car penters, as lay so rotten a covering upon so sure a building, whereas otherwise, they offending in tristes, be sound enough in other matters, and stick to Christ the only substantial and true foundation.  for they confess down right that their Ministry is from the Church of Rome. It seemeth, you did neither much care, nor inquire what they profess, else you might have seen, they say and profess in this point as the others do. The Conformists (I use that word because you are pleased so to speak) maintain against the Papists, that the first Bishops who laboured reformation in this kingdom, did receive their ordination from Romish Bishops, and had such calling as was to be found in that Church. But do they only acknowledge so much? was not this evermore received for a truth in the ancient Church, that ordination received from heretics, not erring in the main fundamental truths directly, was true and effectual? Do not all reformed Churches which have separated from the abominations of Rome profess that the first reformers amongst them received some ordinary calling in the Church of Rome, which remained in that time of the visible Church corrupted? For some of them were Bishops, some Priests and Doctors approved of the Universities, and ordinary Churches: many of them preached, the Gospel and administered the Sacraments before excommunication or persecution raised by the Adverfaries, in that they were sent unto, or set over several Churches or congregations, in which they ought to execute their office or ministration, therein they received commandment to preach the Gospel. If men that sent them did mix anything else to their calling, they must be obedient to divine institution, not to humane addition. So being after an ordinary manner sent of God singularly, they were extraordinarily stirred up of him to promote and set forward his kingdom. 
Rivet. Cathol. Orthe. tract. 2. q 8. s. 3, Belthaz Lydias no. in disp. Tabari. c. 11. Whit, de ecc. q. 5. c. 6. Bucer. Siquid boni fuit in successione, vocatione ordinatione Ecclesia, jum cum primos nostros doctores. Deminus excitavit, id totum in illis si fuisse dixerimus, quid cantra obycient po●lificit? Num exim cedo vel. Judaei, vel Turcae, vel Barbari, ac prophans homines de reformanda Ecclesia prim verba facere, ac non potius viri gravissimi doctissimi que Ecclesia passoris?  Thus Luther, Hus Wickliff and others were called both ordinarily and extraordinarily: an ordinary calling they received in a corrupt Church, and extraordinarily they were stirred up to fulfil the Ministry they had received, according to the commandment of God, and not after the traditions of men.  
It is generally received for a truth at this day, that Baptism administered by heretics, who err not in the main fundamental truths of Baptism, 
In the ordination of bishops it is said, Interrogamus te, si omnem prudentiam tuam quantum tua capax est, natura divinae scripturae sensibus accommoder evolueris, vis ea quae ex divinis scripturis intelligis, plebem cui ordinanduses & verbis docere & exemplis Accipe Euangesi●? vade & praedica populo tibi comm●sso  or deny not the essential form of Baptism, is true for substance. And if Baptism be true and must be reverenced as God's ordinance deserveth, there is some truth of Ministry amongst them. They that think the basest of Rome, will acknowledge the Baptism administered by Priests and Jesuits to be true for substance. And if the Baptism of God may be received or derived from their Ministry, it is no absurdity to affirm, that the first seekers of reformation derived authority from God to preach the Word and administer the Sacraments by their Ministry, or by them, as Stewards used of God to set them in office. The differences which they put between Baptism and the Ministry are to no purpose at all to the point in hand. For let them disser in what they will, herein they agree, that in what society soever, the truth of Baptism is to be found, therein is some truth of Ministry to be found, though marvellous corrupt and polluted.  
The calling of the Pope and his adherents is earthly, false, and devilish, as they stand in relation to him. But so is not the calling of every one that was set in office by them in every respect. For some things might be of men, and some things were of God. For they derived their authority from God, and not from them, and therefore though the quality of the proper calling of Priests and Jesuits be earthly and carnal, it is not necessary the calling that others receive by them, but from God, should be of the same nature, quality or condition. And though that calling amongst the Papists was whole corrupt, yet not wholly, because that which is instituted by God, 
Calfeh. art. 4, pag. 105. Chry. This is my sacrifice to preach the Gospel, my sword is the Gospel. CAN Neces. of Separ. p. 233.  is not made void by the corruptions of men, The Ministry of Priests considered in the Mass (if I may so speak) is corrupt and rotten, as they are ordained to offer sacrifices propitratorie for the quick and dead, it is the ministry of the papal apostasy and not Christ's, but as they are ordained to preach the Gospel and to baptise, so we cannot say their ministry is not of Christ at all, or that it is a mere nullity. If you had considered this distinction advisedly you would have been more sparing in your censure, or at least given some weighty reasons of your affirmation. But it is easier to blow away an argument with big words, than to untie the knot in due order. 
Azor. instit. Moral. l. 2. c. 19 Ames. Bell. enervat. tom. 2. ca 2. the vocal minist. p. 80. Sadeel. de●eg●●. vocat. Minist pag. 64. Extraordinaritie dicitur duobus modis, aut enim de iis intelligetur qui ita ab ordine vero ac legitime discedunt, ut ordinem ipsum violenr. etc. aut extraordinarium dicitur cum amore solito eoque corrupto, ita receditur, ut ad verum ordinem qui interruptus fuerat, redeatu: Quod quidem primis nestris docto thus usa venisse agnoscimus. CAN Stay. sect. 2, p. 51.  The papists themselves teach, In Episcopo haeretico manere potestatem conferendi ordines, quia id facit nomine, institutione & authoritate Christi, ideoque ab haereticis Episcopis ordinatos, & ad Ecclesiam redeuntes, non iterum ordinari. Aliqui etiam tenent hariticos Episcopos potestatem quoque jurisdictionis non amittere.  
If the Nonconformists hold any thing extraordinary in the calling of these prime reformers and servants of God, it is not absolutely but in some respect only. And the same is affirmed by Conformists also. Extraordinariam dicimur quorundam ordinariorum Ministrorum vocationem, eo tantum sensu quo Sacerdotes pontificii quaedam ab ipsis Jesuitis dicuntur legitimo jure extraordinario: And a little after, Sic eo nomine tantum vocatur, quia recedit in aliqua parte ab ordine jam depravato, ut possit illum restaurare.  
Compare therefore what they have written together, and you shall find nothing which might hinder their communion in the worship of God. You say the Scriptures approve not, of rending away from true Churches, for any corruption: I use the word (any) because so long as we acknowledge the Church to be true (whatsoever her sins are) a separation from all communion with it, is utterly unlawful. But whatsoever the Conformists or Nonconformists have written one against another in this point of the Ministry, they never denied the nature and essence of a true church to be found among us, and therefore cannot be thought to offend against conscience, in that they hold communion together, in that which is good, and of God.     

SECT. 7.  

CAN Stay ag. Sect. 3. pag. 58.  
THe sinful office of the Teacher becomes his sin who practiseth will-worship with him. For hereby he enwrappeth himself into the guilt of his office. To hear such a Minicter is to honour, approve, and uphold his office of ministers. To yield any approbation, liking, or reverence, unto men's institutions in the exercise of religion, is sin. But in hearing Antichristian Ministers, 
d. §. 4. p. 61.  there is approbation, liking, and reverence, yielded unto men's institution in the exercise of religion, 
Mat. 15.9. Ps. 6.4. Col. 2.20, 21. De. 5.9. 1 Cor. 6.17. Hos. 2.16. Exod. 23.13.  therefore it is sin. The Major cannot be denied, for the Scriptures teach us the very thing. Besides the most judicious Writers affirm it too.  
The Minor is as clear, For first, It is not possible that men can come to Antichristian Churches to worship God, but they must by their precence there, show reverence and honour to the public fall state and ministry.  

ANSWER.  
HEre you come over with the same text of Scripture and the same arguments, whereunto answer hath been given already. But I must follow you in that path, wherein you are pleased to go before me. 1 Will-worship is unlawful, both in the teacher, and them that communicate with him in that worship. But the preaching of the word and administration of the Sacraments in our assemblies is not will-worship, but the ordinance of Christ. 2 To yield any approbation, liking, or reverence unto men's institutions, devised, and to be exercised with opinion of holiness, 
Babing in Leu. 10 Calv. in loc. jun. anal. in loc. Piscat. ibid.  necessity, and worship, is sin. And if this be the meaning of your proposition, we confess the Scriptures teach this very thing, and judicious learned Divines affirm it. And what use there is of heaping up Authors to prove that which is most willingly assented unto, I cannot tell. The Lord hath laid down the way and manner of his worship, and hath not left it to any creature to meddle with, but according to his prescription and appointment. 
CAN Stay, § 5. p. 40.  The outward worship of God must be strictly done according to his commandment. A good intention there hath no place, works devised by man's fancy, have not only no promise of reward for doing of them, but contrariwise great threaten and maledictions of God. 
Q. Eliz. Injunct. 3.  But all institutions of men in the exercise of religion, such, to wit, as be simply matters of order, or appurtenances of worship, as time, place, method, phrase of speech, stinted catechisms, forms of blessing and administration of the Sacraments, etc. be not of that nature, neither doth every thing concerning the qualification and exercise of ministry belong to the second Commandment. So that all institutions in general are not condemned in Scripture, nor disliked by godly and learned men, so the general given for direction in such cases be observed. 3 We hold it unlawful outwardly, and but in appearance, to join with Idolaters in their Idolatry: Many words in this matter might well be spared: But we desire to see your commandment, why for every particular act, that in a large sense is Idolatrous, adjoined to the true worship of God, 
Calfeb. against Mar. art. 10. p. 185, 186.  we should forbear our presence at the worship itself, or be said to communicate in the sin there committed? For than no man might present himself with good conscience, at any public worship of GOD, wherein any thing is done amiss, for matter, or manner, which is in effect to say, he cannot be present at any at all. 4 To communicate in the ordinances of God with the Ministers of the Church of England, is not to like, approve or reverence the institutions of men, in the exercises of religion, nor to communicate with the Teacher in his sin, nor in aught else that is amiss. For the worship is of God both for matter and manner. And put case, the Minister be disorderly chosen, enter not as he ought, be simoniacal, covetous, froward, corrupt, idle, scandalous, do the people partake in his sin, in that they make use of his Ministry? No Scripture teacheth any such thing, no reason doth confirm it, no approved authors ever said it. That which you allege for proof, falleth utterly short.  
It appertaineth to the virtue of truth, 
Dau. determ. 7. p. 40.  that as a man showeth himself by external signs, so he is indeed to be esteemed. And such as frequent or repair unto unlawful assemblies, for the public worship of God, by their being there, are to be reputed of the same religion, or else dissemblers, as it were to have no care of religion, knowing God, 
Douai annot in 4. King. 5.19. p. 778.  but not glorifying him as God. But herein you have misrelated the Douai translators, for their words are, But in a Christian country, where all bear the name of Christians, especially where men are at controversy about the true Christian Religion, all that frequent or repair unto the same assemblies, for public service of God, are to be reputed of the same religion, or else dissemblers. Bodily presence at false worship, by which they show a liking unto it is unlawful. To eat of meats sacrificed unto Idols in the Idol Temple, 
Your condemning the worship of God performed in our assemblies as pernicious idolatry wherein is it a lesser sin han the Pope's prohibition of public prayer, and restraint of the Word and Sacraments throughout the Realm? you can neither show us warrant for it an the Scriptures, nor example of it in the Church of God. You that so teach and censure stand guilty of great impiety and they that harken unto your persuasions, are partakers of your iniquity in some sort, of the wrong imaginations of Christians, Aug. in Tract. ●o 19 saith, Quae omnia idola cordis sunt. T. Caepl. 1. art. 3. pag. 4.  is to communicate with Idolaters. These things are evident and freely granted: But the Assembly met to call upon God, in the mediation of Jesus Christ alone, to hear the doctrine of salvation, sound and purely preached, to receive the Sacrament rightly administered, is not a false idolatrous assembly: they that repair unto it, be not Idolatrous ●●false worshippers. If you esteem of them as they show themselves by out ward signs, you must esteem them to be of the true religion, and the true worshippers of God according to his will; The ministry in that assembly to be true, sound and faithful and of God of substance. In this lieth the point of the controversy, which you are contented to pass by in silence, without any proof at all.  
But if any humane frailty or infirmity cleave to the ministry or congregation, in respect of doctrine, manners, laws, government or order, which concerns not the life and soul, but only the safety of the Church or welfare of Religion. In these a Christian doth not partake by his presence at the ordinances, as the Scripture, reason, and the approved practice of the Saints in all ages of the Church do plentifully witness. This is the judgement and practice of the Nonconformists, and therefore they profess they praise God for this reformation, so fare forth, as it is agreeable to the Word of God, they are glad the Word of God is preached, that the Sacraments are administered; that which is wanting they desire to be added, that which is overmuch cut off. But that a Christian must separate from the Word and Sacrament, by reason of some superfluities or defects, is no responsive conclusion, that can be gathered sound from their writings.    

CAN Stay. Sect. 5. pag. 66.  
In preaching of the truths of the Gospel by a false Minister, an Idolatrous act is performed. For Divine worship is not to be determined by a particular thing (howbeit in itself good) but as the essential parts belonging thereto (whether they are persons or things) are kept and observed. The Church of Rome in Baptism useth water, and in the Sacrament of the Lords Supper gives bread and wine otherwhile too: doth this clear their administrations of Idolatry? I think all men do think that Vzziah committed an Idolatrous act, 
2 Chron. 26.16.  when he invaded the Priest's office. But what made it so? took he unlawful incense? no. Used he strange fire? no. Offered he prohibited Sacrifice, or upon a wrong Altar, No: Where then lay the fault, the Scripture telleth us, 
Verse 18.  it pertained not to him to burn incense unto the Lord, but to the sons of Aaron. To apply this, if his act were Idolatrous because he wanted a calling, howbeit observed many truths of the law. By the same reason the Church acts of Artichristian Ministers are Idolatrous, yea, and as for the truths which they preach, this clears their acts no more from Idolatry, than Vzziahs' true Incense and the Altar quitted him from transgression.  

ANSWER.  
Your great words are of small force, 
CAN. Stag. §. 3. p. 56.  for should I speak my conscience, (it is your phrase,) They are words without weight of reason. For still you presuppose the Ministry of the Church of England to be false and idolatrous, which is to beg, not to conclude the question. But that being presupposed, let us see how you go forward. In preaching the truth of the Gospel by a false Minister, an Idolatrous act is performed, you say. But doth the Scripture say so? Do you read it in the Law, or in the Prophets, in the Apostles or in the Evangelists? The Scribes and Pharisees were false, Ministers, but it was not an Idolatrous work in them to expound the Law of Moses, or dispense other Church ordinances, at that time commanded. The popish Priests and Bishops are false Prophets, but the simple administration of Baptism by them is not an idolatrous act. The Minister that is profane, and hateth to be reform, is a false Minister, and hath nothing to do to take the covenant of God into his mouth, but the Word preached by a treacherous Judas, proud Diotrephes, covetous Demas, or one that envieth the prosperity of Saints, and peace of jerusalem, is not an Idolatrous act. If it be Idolatrous in him that performeth it, yet it doth not follow, that it is idolatrous in them that join in the ordinance. Let it be idolatrous in the priests, who despise knowledge, and live profanely, put case Elies sons, to offer sacrifice, it is idolatrous likewise for the people to appear before God in his holy Temple.  
That Vzziah committed a grievous offence, when he invaded the Priest's office, all men think. In what respect all men conceive it to be an idolatrous act I cannot say: but all false Ministers do not usurp the Priest's office, as Vzziah: nor all things done by false Prophets, 
Ex. 30.7, 8. Psal. 141.2. Apoc. 8 3. Moller in Ps. 141.2 Heris. ibid. Deod. Bib●. Ital. annot in Psa. 141.2 & Apoc. 8.3. Oriin Ios. hom 17. tom 1. Est in coelis all re. Paschal. Rhadbert. in Lam. jer. l. 2. Biblioth pat tom. 9 pa●t 1. Christus altare ●●edi u● esse, hostia & sacrifi●ium, pont. fex & sacerdos. Ambr. Enar. in Ps. 118. Greg. Magan Psa 7 paenit. Altar Domini Christus. An. Ex of D●● censure art. 15 p. 19  to be matched with Vzziahs' offering incense. For the offering of Incense was typical, and might be a shadow of Christ's intercession, and so the act of Vzziah might be Idolatrous, and in that particular directly cross to the institution of God. But many Church actions typify no such thing. Vzziah had no calling to offer incense, but some false Ministers may have some calling to administer the things of God, though they be not approved of God. Vzziah could not offer incense in any respect by authority from God, but a false Minister in one respect may be called of God, in some other to do an act ministerial, that is, by authority from God, he may do some acts for substance lawful and effectual, though the Minister himself be not approved. Thus the Nonconformists, upon whose grounds you pretend to build your conclusions, let it be as the censure reporteth, that his words are of a Minister, which cannot preach Doth he doubt whether he be in any respect a a Minister or no, because he saith, if I may so call him? Indeed this manner of speaking declareth that he judgeth him that cannot preach a man unworthy to be a Minister, but he doth not deny him altogether.  
But in your esteem, all Ministers not called and ordained of that particular Church, whereunto they do administer, and performing their authority by virtue and authority derived from them, are false Ministers, because all other administer by power usurped and Antichristian, which is with one breath, to blast all the worship and service, which hath been done unto God in the congregations of his Saints, for this fourteen or fifteen hundred years or more.    

CAN. Stay. Sec. 5. pag. 76.  
It is very true said of one, 
Lavater. In josh. 22, hom. 63.  we ought not to conclude of an action that it is good, because it hath in it something which in itself is so, and this is true, as in things divine, 
Omne totum suis partibus ordinatur, mensuratur, & determinatur.  so in humane too. For it is a known tenant of Philosophers, The whole is composed, measured and determined of all the parts.  

ANSWER.  
It is true, an action is not good, 
Aqu. 1.2. qu. 8. art. 3. Cameron pral●ct. Tom. 2. p. 49. Amb Catharin in the Council of Trent. l. 2. p. 224. CAN. Stay. Sect. 6 page 85. Rutgers. instit. Metaphys. l. 2. cap. de Bon. Quemadmodum convenientia ad rationalem Naturam, ●●ve dictamen rectae rationis consurgit in actu honesto ex bonitate objecti finis & aliarum circumstantiarum: ita contraria disconvenientia seu defectus in malo culpae consurgit, ex defectu illorum in actione, ita ut si vel minimum contrarium desit, actus exeostatim reddatur culpabilis five pectaminosus. Dionys. dixit. Bonum est ex integra causa, malum autem ex quolibet defectu. Revet. in Hosea 4.14. p. 152. job 14 4. Hag. 2, 12, 13. See jun. i● lo.  unless all circumstances required to the doing of a good act be observed: but the act good in itself is evil in the doer, if one circumstance be evil. For every thing that is morally good must be conformable to the rule, which, that which is defective in any part required, cannot be. But how shall this be applied to the purpose? Is every deficient act forthwith Idolatrous? Or that which is by circumstance unlawful in the doer, because of his failing, unlawful to every one that doth communicate with him in the Ordinance, but not in the defect? If a Minister preach Christ of envy, do they sinne that hear sincerely and receive the truth in love? If a man give alms in vainglory, doth the poor man sin, who receives it in humility and thanksgiving? An action done in one form and manner may be sin, which in another form and manner is the true worship of God, which may be observed of him that is present in our Assemblies.    

CAN. Ibid.  
As job saith, who can bring a clean thing out of an unclean? Not one. But the false office is unclean, as is acknowledged. And this further may be amplified by that passage of the Prophet, where it is showed, That holy things are polluted by touching things which are unclean.  

ANSWER.  
That which is unclean cannot causally, univocallie, and properly bring forth that which is clean, but instrumentally it may. A profane Minister may be the instrument of God to convert a sinner from the error of his way, and indispensation of the Sacrament, seal to the worthy receiver the pardon of his sin, though he himself reap no profit or benefit thereby. For herein the good that is wrought is not effected by any virtue or power in the Minister, who is the Lords Officer or instrument, but by the power of God's Spirit, and his free grace, who knoweth how to use and bless evil instruments for his own purpose. An unclean Officer or person pollutes the holy things of God to himself, but not to others, who use them in faith according to the Lords appointment. Why you should refer us to junius annotations I see not, unless it be to show us your forwardness to quote Authors, which make nothing to your purpose. For all that junius observeth is this, That the jews being impure and polluted in heart, did receive no sanctity from the touch of Temple or Altar.    

CAN. IBID.  
If in preaching the truth no Idolatrous act is performed than it will follow, 
Ibid. Sect. 11. p. 116 They need not by his writing leave their unblessed standing; For so they preach the truths of the Gospel, they sinne not. And than what need is there to lay down their false office? I cannot say of this man's Logic as Aristotle did of Theodorus his making Epithets, It is his whole art. CAN. Stay. p. 27.  that a man may remain a Minister of a false Church all his life time, provided he only teach the truths of the Gospel. Our reason is, for in this, if he do no idolatrous act, than he sinneth not, and so consequently no just cause of his coming out from among them.  

ANSWER.  
Ill might you twit your adversary with his little skill in Logic, unless it was done in policy to hid your own looseness in this and the like arguments. For though it be not an Idolatrous act to preach the truth of the Gospel in a false Church, in other respects it may be sin to continue a member in that society, and so also to teach the Gospel's Truths, As it may be scandalous and offensive, an appearance of evil. A man may do that whereunto he is not called, from an evil mind. Also it may be sin to continue in a false Church, though a man teach nothing but the truth of the Gospel, because he cannot profess all main and fundamental truths, or that border thereupon, nor testify against all corruptions, gross, haereticall, really Idolatrous, which in Conscience cannot be tolerated or borne withal without gross hypocrisy or dissimulation; or he cannot keep himself from the tincture of Idolatry in practic●. As for example, though it be not an Idolatrous act for a Popish Priest to preach the Gospel, or administer the Sacraments of Baptism, yet it is not lawful for a Christian to remain as a member in that society, because he cannot partake with them in the Ordinances, but he shall commit real Idolatry, or must dissemble many grievous and hateful abominations, which cannot be dissembled, and shall be thought to be of the same Religion with them, or of no Religion, etc.  
The multitude of Authors which you quote against hearing false Prophets, or continuing in false Churches, do they not give other reasons why we ought to separate from them? or doth any one ever lay this down, as a truth or foundation of separation?  
In the page following you allege six reasons, which you say may be applied against the going with others to an Idol ministry, Church or worship, etc. But if they be of any strength, this reason whereof now we speak, is nought worth, for they are directly cross. Here you say, If in preaching the truth of the Gospel he do no Idolatrous act he sinneth not, but there, you say, he sinneth many other ways.  
But in all this you take that for granted, which we confidently deny, sc. That our Churches, worship, or Ministry is false and Idolatrous. And therefore taking the proposition in your sense, we say, It is not only lawful, but necessary to remain Ministers or members of some Churches, which lie under your censure as false and Idolatrous, but indeed are the true Ministers and Churches of jesus Christ, graced with his presence, covered with his banner, and beautified with his Ordinances and tokens of love. And that which you call an unblessed standing, we make no question but it is approved and blessed of Christ, and therefore regard your reviling the less.    

Can. Stay. Sect. 5. Pag. 73.  
If a man perform an action in a state, and of public nature he is to be considered (in respect of himself) as is that state and according to the public Ordinances: For if the state be false and the officer unlawful, it is familisme for him to say, I know this state is set up against the Lord jesus Christ, and every comer here to worship, according to the constitution, is an Idolater, but I will have in myself a secret meaning from the rest. 
Id. page 77. Seeing false Churches and false Ministers are real Idols, set up by earthly Princes, etc. Whosoever comes and bows before those Idols cannot escape the just blame of Idolatry, Id. pag. 73.  This is a sure thing, (and let it be noted) No administration performed in a state, and by a power and constituted office, can be sought, desired and received, but in so doing, the doer (ipso facto) really approves of that state, power and office, be the same lawful or unlawful. And as for any man's saying to the contrary, it is sine capite fabula, a vision of his own Head, and will prove as good as the miracles which jannes' and jambres wrought, even means to harden his own heart, and some others, as they did Pharaohs, by doing them.  

ANSWER.  
You say it is an easy thing to Conquer, 
CAN. Stay. Sect. 5. page 66. We are no such Children as to give the cause so away. CAN. Necess. of sep. p. 226. But this we cannot give him, though he beg it shamefully, because the thing is otherwise, as their own writes manifest. CAN. Stay. Sect. 5. page 74. Calfeh. against Mart art. 3. page 86.  if begging might procure it, and if confident assertions will carry a matter, you will not go without it. But we must not be driven from the Church, the Ordinances and worship of God, communion with Christ and society of Saints, by an empty blast of words: No, though you shamefully boast you have proved it by our own writings. Do you think your bold impudent asseveration, that any man's saying to the contrary is sine capite fabula, a vision of his own head, will make us by and by yield to your definitive sentence, for which you can produce neither Scripture, nor reason, nor authority but your own, as if your ipse dixit. Pope-like were to be rested in? We are no such Children, We are not to be feared with rattles. You must bring better matter than your vain fictions, and sounder proof than vain repetitions of the same things over and over, or else you must expect small credit to be given unto your words.  
They that join together in the worship of God, 
Ambr. in Luk. 6. c. 9 Fides Ecclesiae imprimis quaerenda, in quâ si Christus habitator sit, haud dubiè legenda, etc. sed siqua est Ecclesia quae fidem respuat, nec Apostolicae praedicationis fundamenta possideat, ne quam labem perfidiae pos●it aspergere, deserenda est. Sadeel. de legit. Minist. vocat. p. 6. Aug. Ex. 166. Our heavenly Master gave us warning before hand to make the people secure touching evil overseers, lest for their sakes the chair of wholesome doctrine should be forsaken And Tract. in joh. 46. The Lord's fold hath some overseers, that be Children, & some that be hirelings.  & ordinances of Religion, they approve the faith protessed in points fundamental, the worship performed for the substance, Ordinances administered and the truth of Ministry for substance, whereby these things are dispensed. For of necessity, if the doctrine of salvation be restored, the lawful use of the ministry is restored also. Where God is truly called upon in the Congregation, and the Sacraments rightly dispensed, there is a true ministry, whereby these offices are rightly exercised. But the particular Laws, manner of Government and orders in the Church, the qualifications or qualities of the Minister or Communicants, their disorders, carelessness, or other miscarriage in the administration, he doth not approve really or interpretatively by his presence at the Ordinances. If the Ministers be careless, proud, covetous, superstitious, enemies to true godliness, friends to profaneness; if they aspire after dignity, love pre-eminence, prate against the brethren, they that communicate with them in the Ordinances of Religion, do neither in so doing countenance them in sin, nor approve their doing. If the Communicants be ignorant, earthly minded, disobedient, profane, scandalous, they that communicate with them in the true worship of God, and therein hold external society, because they have not liberty to departed themselves, nor power to cast the others out, they are not defiled with their sin, nor partakers in their transgression. And the same may be said of orders and rites established by the constitution of men presence at the ordinance doth not enwrape a Christian within the guilt thereof, nor was it ever the pub●lke intention of the state, that all present should approve every particular institution or order. It sufficeth if they approve the faith professed, and worship performed, which are of God.  
It is true, that by words, works, example, silence, men may become guilty of others sins, and that some kind of dissimulation is a denying of Christ. But it is true withal, that presence at God's Ordinances is no dissimulation, nor participation in the sins of others, by word, example, silence or other ways. If a man do one thing and pretend another, and hope to save himself, by his secret meaning, you may rebuke his hypocrisy as the cause requireth: But we say, in repairing to the Ordinances of God, our heart and actions go together, and both are allowed and approved of God.  
And here consider, whether you do not directly confute yourself by the Engine of your own acknowledgement, as you phrase it.  
For here you say, 
CAN. Stay. Sect. 6. p. 78.  no administration performed in a state and by power and constituted office can be sought, desired and received. And in your Margin, There is a main difference between a man's bare presence in a constituted state, as being there unawares, unwillinglie or by compulsion, and presence there, 
Jd. page 75.  of purpose to partake of the administrations. And a little before you argue thus, whosoever takes to himself a practice, which is not grounded on God's Word, and therein is strict, he is just overmuch. 
Id. page 74. & 122  And many times you inculcate, that you are to be understood of hearing in a Church way, and of Church officers. Now if you deal plainly herein, let the indifferent judge whether you do not more than insinuate, that all hearing in our assemblies is not absolutely to be condemned, but that wherein a man is strict, that which is sought and desired. And how then can it be esteemed an act of Idolatry, or compared to bowing down before an Image? For the worship of an Image, though occasionally done, and that but once, with what intent or purpose soever, you will acknowledge to be sin: and if hearing the Word preached in our assemblies occasionally be not a sin, you have sinned grievously in matching it with Idolatry of the most heinous kind, and abused both Scripture and learned Authors to countenance your impiety.     

SECTION 8.  

CAN. STAY against. Sect. 5. Pag. 74. 75.  
If to hear in a false Church, be any lawful ordinary means of edification, which Christ the only Teacher of his Church hath appointed, than it is set down by the Apostle in Eph. 4 11, 12, 13. The reason is, because Paul there mentioneth all ministerial means for the perfect and complete building of the Church, from the first to the last. And if Christ, who in those last days speaks evidently by his Gospel and Spirit, 
Id. Sect. 12. p. 117  had judged it fit, that his children should go unto false Churches, he would certainly have made known the same unto them.  

ANSWER.  
The Apostle in the place alleged describes what officers Christ hath given to; and doth approve in his Church, for the ministry of the word and dispensation of the heavenly mysteries, 
The Papists allege this Text of the Apostle to prove that in the Church there hath ever been a visible succession of Pastors or Teachers. See Rhem: annot. in Eph. 4 13 And the Answer which is returned to them by our Divines will serve in this case. See Fulk answer to the Rhem Ibid. Car●w. Ibid. Cameron Myroth. in Eph. 4.11. Non sequitur tamen inde Pastores istos fuisse ejusmodi qui oves conduxerint in ea pas cua quibus cicuta & aconitum nascatur, satis est ut duxerint in ea pascua, quibus etsi insit virus, tamen in est unde oves pascantur.  and intimateth also how they should be qualified and behave themselves in the execution of their Office. But the Apostle saith not, that the Church hath, or shall evermore enjoy such officers, both for substance of their office, qualification of gifts and manner of dispensation, as are there commended: Nor yet that the Church is only to hear such as be rightly qualified, and do faithfully execute their office.  
It derogates nothing from the glory of Christ's wisdom and faithfulness in providing for the full and perfect instruction of the Church, that such Pastors be sometimes wanting and cannot be had: for he never promised to provide otherwise for them in all ages of the Church, but told them of the scarcity which might come before, and in wisdom saw into be most for his own glory. Christ never laid this charge upon the faithful to separate from those teachers, which preached truly the doctrine of salvation, if any exception could be taken against their calling qualification, manner of life or execution of their office. The Pastors of the Church should be wise, vigilant, holy, examples to the flock both in doctrine and conversation, not seeking their own but, that which is Jesus Christ's; And after they be chosen, they should execute their office with all diligence: But if they be careless, covetous, pompous, intangling themselves in things of this world, scandalous, yet if they preach Christ, and be not, or cannot be removed, the faithful are bound to hear them. The Primitive Bishops and Martyrs, were neither Pastors nor Doctors according to every circumstance, which your will require in a Pastor or Teacher, but the faithful in those times held communion with, and heard them as they preached Christ and him crucified, and that by the commandment and approbation of Christ Himself, what was of God, they were obliged to submit unto, wisely distinguishing it from that which is annexed of man.  
In the Officers of the Church, two things are to be considered.  
1. The substance of their calling, which is to seed the flock of God.  
2. Their qualification for this office, their care in execution, and other accessories which may be added of man. If for substance of office their calling be of God, we are bound to hold communion with them, though in the qualification, execution and other adhering circumstances, some things be amiss, which it is not in our power to redress. This our Saviour Christ hath expressly taught and made known unto u●, both by his Doctrine and example, as hath been showed already.  
Hereunto this one thing may be added, that many Pastors and teachers in the Church of England be called, qualified and do carry themselves in their charges and places according to the direction of JESUS CHRIST the chief shepherd of his sheep, and other for substance of Ministry are Pastors and Teachers.    

CAN Stay Sect. 6. pag 79.  
If to hear Antichristian Ministers be to serve God in and by an Ordinance; 
If in preaching the truths of the Gospel in a false Church no Idolatry be done, then may a man worship God in a way of his own devising blameless. Id. §. 5. page 77.  way or institution devised by Idolaters and with Idolaters, than it is unlawful. But the first is true, Therefore the second. The proposition is undeniable by the Treatisers own confession (you should have said the assumption, for if the Treatisers words prove aught, they must be applied thereunto. As for the proposition they speak not to it at all. But forwardness here and in many other places hath made you forget your terms of Art) He that hears the Ministers of the Bishops sending, and of the Parishes sent to, he hears (in the sense of the Scriptures) false Prophets. 
Id page 81. Such as hearken to Antichrists Ministers do therein approve of Antichrists unlawful power over the false Church and the Devil's donation, or his putting of that power into his eldest son● h●nd, Id. §. 6. p. 84.  But it is not lawful to hear false Prophets. The Major is proved clearly in defence of our twelfth objection. The Minor is certain by these reasons. 1. The hearing of false Prophets is forbidden in the word of God, etc.  

ANSWER.  
You busy yourself to wove the Spider's web, which is good for little, long in weaving, but soon swept down. Our Ministers be not Antichristian Ministers, nor false Prophets, (in the Scriptures sense) because they preach the whole counsel of God in all points necessary to salvation, and rightly dispense the seals of the Covenant, by authority derived from Jesus Christ, the Lord and King o● his Church, the great Shepherd of his Sheep. At least they are set apart to this office, which was never deemed Antichristian in the Church of Christ.  
But if we take these words (Antichristian Ministers, and false Prophets, in your sense, for you use them in a peculiar dialect) than it is not only lawful but necessary to hear such as you call Antichristian Ministers. For it is commanded in the word, and acceptable service unto God, the means to build up the Church: It is to hold communion with God, to reverence his name, to lay hold upon Christ and lodge him in our bosom: It showeth that a man is one of Christ's sheep, because he heareth his voice, and a member of his sheepfold, the servant of the most high God: it manifesteth love and zeal to God, and is ordinarily blessed to the soul and conscience of the dutiful hearer. And in that which you allege to the contrary, you misalledge Scripture, speak evil of the truth, revile the heritage of the Lord, and grievously wound your own conscience.  
The religion professed, and worship performed in our assemblies is true, not only in respect of the object, but of nature, use and end, and whatsoever circumstances are necessarily required to lawful worship. And the false Prophets mentioned in Scripture are of one sort, yours of an other, even the true Ministers of Jesus Christ.  
But let us turn over to the twelfth objection, to hear the clear proof of that which here you affirm, for thither you send us. 
CAN Stay §. 12. p. 116, 117.   
The Treatiser (as you call him) propounding this objection of yours, that the Scriptures of the old and new Testament, warn God's people of false prophets, which the Ministers of that Church are, having an unlawful calling, maketh answer, 1 By denying that the Scriptures warn men simply not to hear false Prophets, i.e. any false prophet whatsoever. And then propounds a distinction of falls Prophets; that some falls Prophets were in the Church of God, and these might be heard, as they had place in the Church, till they were orderly repressed, or at least discovered; others were not in the Church, but simply without, and these were not to be heard. This is the plain and direct answer of the Treatiser, as every man may perceive, that is not grossly ignorant, or wilfully blind. But see how you jest and dally with it unconscionably when you had nothing to answer. 1. You say he peremptorily denyeth the whole objection, and so consequently affirms, that all false Prophets may be heard. But what new Logic is this, whereby we may learn to draw such consequences. In former times it hath been thought reasonable to deny an universal negative or affirmative proposition, when they hold not true in all Individuals. No false prophet is to be heard. This proposition may justly be benyed, if any false Prophet may be heard, though all might not. 2 You add presently and with the same breath, He unsaith what he said before. But this is a palpable and gross calumny: For he said not, that all false Prophets might be heard by all, nor denyeth what he granted at the first, that some may be heard: but plainly implieth a distinction of false Prophets, which I can hardly think you did not perceive, though you be pleased so to pervert his words.  
If there appear any deep and inextricable riddle in the words, you may fitly apply to yourself, what in this very place you report of Marcus Antonius' soldiers, who unawares fell upon an herb that greatly distempered their heads. You tell us, 
Id pag. 116.  The Treatiser since he lighted upon his Gourd, he is not like himself in his other writings: and I can easily believe it, for in his other writings for separation he is insolent, censorious, scornful and slighty: In this mild, Christian, and for the most part more substantial.  
As you deal, with your Treatiser, to scorn what you cannot answer, so you do with others in this very argument, and that much more absurdly, Master Br. in maintenance of the Ministry of the Church of England, 
The unreasonab. of separation, p. 2, 3, 4, 7.  as it is established by Law, distinguisheth between the substance of the Ministry, and the execution thereof, the essential parts of the Ministry, and some accidental circumstances adhering unto them by man. For substance (saith he) the present Ministry of our Church assemblies, is the very Ministry which Christ hath set in his Church, howsoever it may in some particular parts of the execution happily be defective in some places. The ordinary ministry of our Church, is the ordinary and perpetual Ministry given by Christ to his Church, 
Id pag. 10.  and such as the Princes of the earth are bound by God's law to protect and maintain. And if there be any corruption in and about the same which they ought to abolish, it is accidental or personal, 
Page 8.  and not essential to destroy the true nature of the ministry of God. And though it should be granted that our people stand under some kind of observances and offices, which in their own nature and first original are in some kind Antichristian, yet such a manner of standing cannot be said to overthrow, though it somewhat stain the Ministry of Christ. Thus is the substance of the answer throughout the book. 
CAN Neces. of Separ. p. 216, 217.  But how do you confute or take away this distinction, or weaken the force of this answer? That you do not once assay by Scripture or sound reason, but you cry out of shifts and trifling, and contradictions, beggarly I sayas, or ifs, base maintenance of the vilest abominations, and justification of corruptions generally condemned, by the same carnal and corrupt reasons which the Prelates use to do: That it serves to strengthen the hands of the wicked, 
Id. pag. 220.  grieve the hearts of the righteous, and to discover his own vile halting, and double dealing. The dumb dogs, caterpillars and idle bellies, never had a better proctor than this man to plead for their unlawful standing, For he saith, The Magistrate is bound to protect their Ministry. But how can we believe him, seeing the Nonconformists teach otherwise? The rest of your answer is of the same mark, which for shame I will not stand to confute. You say, any one may see by his work, 
Page 22●.  that he meant not to tie his conscience short, but would make a little bold with it or the present, and so he might fetch over a sure blow upon us, He cared not though with every stroke he made wounds through the sides of his brethren. But if you be able, bring forth one sentence, wherein the indifferent may see, that he hath made bold with his conscience, or made the least wound in the side of any brother, wherein he hath contradicted himself or the nonconformists, justified any abomination, pleaded for any corruption, or spoken one word in defence of dumb dogs, caterpillars or idle bellies. And if you cannot do this, let the indifferent judge, whether you have not offered violence to your conscience, and made bold to wound your soul, that you might defame the Ministry of the Gospel, and slander the gifts of God in his servants. This practice is Antichristian, borrowed from the vilest bondslaves of that man of sin, if not from Satan himself. But I will not defend the Treatisers opinion, nor trouble myself further to examine your answer to Master Br. That which I am to inquire into is, How you prove all the Ministers of the Church of England, in respect of their office and standing, to be false Prophets, or Antichristian, If aught can be found to this purpose, bare words excepted.    

CAN Stay sect. 12 pag. 119, 120.  
If an unlawful outward calling make an unlawful Minister, than it makes a false Prophet. For according to the Scriptures, it is all one thing, only expressed in divers terms, etc. We know no mean between true Prophets and false, for whosoever is not a true Prophet is a false Prophet, 
Id. p. 121.  and whosoever is a false Prophet, cannot be a true Prophet of God. He that is of God is a true Prophet, he that is of the Devil is a false Prophet; neither doth the delivery and utterance of some truths, make him a true Prophet, for then the Devil should be a true Prophet, who sometimes speaks the truth, albeit to a sinister end. Balaam was a very witch, a wizard, a false Prophet, a true sorcerer, famous, or rather infamous for his Devilish magic, which he practised among the wicked idolatrous nation. So Attersol and many others so too, as Junius, Simpson, Ferus, Canutus, and before them Origen, Greg. Nazianzene, Basil.  

ANSWER.  
As for Balaam, whether he were a Witch, Wizard or Magician, it is not material to the point in hand. If the Treatiser did put that instance amiss, it will not follow, that you have truly proved the Ministers of the Church of England to be false Prophets, or sound confuted what he answered for himself. And if the Treatisers friends be of your disposition, you may soon hear from them that you have answered nothing, for you have brought the say and opinions of men, but reason out of the Scripture you have alleged none to prove him simply a Witch and a false Prophet. And if the opinions and say of men will serve the turn, there be some that have thought Balaam to be a Prophet of God, 
Tertul. count. Marc. lib. 4. Numb 22.19. & 2●. 7. Iosh. 13.22. Sept. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, Trem. & jun, Divinum, id est qui divinat.  and that for reasons not to be disregarded. Tertullian amongst others, thought Balaam to be a true Prophet, and such a Prophet, as should be numbered among the servants of God, because he professeth that he would ask counsel of God, and that he would speak nothing but what God should say unto him. And he doth not only say so, but indeed he propoundeth those things which he had received of God, and which consent with truth and piety. In Scripture he is called a Diviner, which word is sometimes used in a good sense, to note one that doth prophesy true things, or wisely and truly divine things to come. 
Prov. 16.10. Sept. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 In. Sagac. Pisc. Divinatio, i.e. quasi divina●io, hoc est sogatitas, qualis est divinantium. Mercer. in Prov. 16.10. Isaia. 3.3. jun. Sagacem Pisc. Heb. Divinatorem, sed hic accipitur in bonam par●em. Sept. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Conjectorem. Hieron, ariolum. Douai. Soothsayer, Moller. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 est, qu●d hoc loco in bonampartem accipitur. Car. in Prov. 16.10. & quidem frequentissimè in Scriptura usu patur in malam partem, pro his qui artibus Diabo●i●is abdita rimantur: sed aliquando etiam, ut Isa 13. & Ezek. 13.6. usurpatur in bonam partem, pro his qui aliquid a●cani proponunt, quod legitimè, vel revelatione divinâ, vel solerti mvestigatione assecuti sunt.  Divination or a wise sentence is in the lips of Kings. The Judge and the Prophet, the Diviner, and the old Man.  
The Prophet's divine for silver: 
Mic. 3.11. Sept. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. Num. 27.7. Sept. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. Vulg. precium divinationis. 2 Per. 2.15. Numb 23.27. See Rainold. censur. praelect. 201 B. Hieron. alibi nullam illustriorem de advent●● Domini extare prophetiam dicit sci. quam Bileami. Qui & inter quaestiones Christianorum hanc fuisse docet, cur Balaam tam manifesta de Christo praedixisset. Quem & ipse ad job 32. the cognition Abrahan ifu●sse docet. D. Heins. ex●rcit. sacr. in Mat. 2.  which is spoken of the Prophets in Judah. Nevertheless, seeing he is called a Diviner, as they are said to take divinations in their hands, scil. the wages of iniquity, and as there is no divination against Israel, that is, magical incantations cannot avail against Jsrael, whom God doth protect with his presence, I do rather subscribe to them, who conceive that he was a Witch or Wizard, than the prophet of God.  
Neither doth the delivery and utterance of some truth make a true prophet, for the Heathen Witches and Wizards, nay the Devil himself hath spoken some truth, that he might the better deceive. But as the possession of all supernatural truth necessary to salvation is proper to the Church: so to preach the whole counsel of God unto his people, is the special badge of a true Prophet, and the fruit whereby he is known. Mark this well, for (to use your own phrase) it showeth all your answer to be coecum insomnium, a vain dream and nothing else. It is the note of a false Prophet to run when God doth not send him. But can it be showed, that ever Minister did teach the whole counsel of God unto his flock, 
●er. 14.14. & 23.21 & 27.15. Vnreasonabl. of separation. p. 6. Though it be no new thing that the Ministers of Antichrist should in divers things bring the truth with them; yet this is a new thing and never heard of before, That the Ministers of Antichrist should teach the whole truth of jesus Christ for the substance thereof, That they should oppose directly and zealously against the main and fundamental doctrines of Antichrist, etc. 〈◊〉 42.19.  who was not sent of God? The places cited make it evident, that they whom God did not send, they taught false things in his name: as they run when he sent them not, so they prophesied when he spoke not unto them. In some cases it is true the Church for a time may be without Ministers, as when the pastor is taken away by death, or the Church dispersed by persecution, or the people negligent to procure teachers, and the like. But ordinarily the Church is not destitute of true Ministers, nor is there a true ministry to be found but in the Church. And therefore seeing the society professing the true faith entirely, and holding the communion of Saints, is the true Church: the Ministers teaching sound doctrine in those societies, and maintaining the unity of the Spirit, must of necessity be true Ministers.  
But every unlawful Minister (say you) is a false Prophet, for these two are all one. This is spoken ambiguously and must be distinguished before any direct judgement can be passed upon it? What then do you understand by unlawful Minister? Is he an unlawful Minister who is not approved of God, designed by Christ, qualified as he ought, chosen orderly, but out of favour, partiality, faction or schism? Or is he an unlawful Minister, who teacheth corruptly, seeketh not that which was lost, bindeth not up that which was broken, puts not the weak into his bosom, grieveth the godly, strengtheneth the hands of the wicked and walketh profanely? Is he an unlawful Minister who being a secret heretic, 
CAN Necess. of Separation, page. 237. If one be ordained a Pastor, according to Christ's institution, he hath certainly lawful ministry, howsoever things shall afterward fall out, ye● though he should sing Mass and Matins as he speaketh. But he asketh, if any, that is in his wits will say so? yes, and prove it also: and if he himself had not wanted some wit in this point, he would not thus have confounded one thing so absurdly with another, for as a person may be a servant or subject truly and fully, and yet do afterwards the actions of thiefs, rebels, traitors: so a man may take a true Ministry by ordination, and yet in his life and doctrine do wickedly, and ●●serve justly to be deposed.  is chosen and ordained by the community where he is to administer, without due trial and examination, or being rashly and unadvisedly elected, doth after neglect his duty altogether, teach perverse things, administer coruptly, sing Mass and Matins? If none of these be unlawful Ministers in your esteem, it will be no loss to us, if we grant the proposition: for we may boldly affirm, if you search our Ministry with a candle and lantern, it will be found true and of God. If you take a false prophet and unlawful Minister in that strict sense as to exclude all the former, there is not one Minister a member of our Church, that can be a false Prophet. If you take all these for unlawful ministers, than all unlawful Ministers are not false prophets in your account. Or else, it is lawful to hold communion with some false prophets, which you peremptorily would seem to deny.  
The want of an outward calling, you say, makes a man an unlawful minister: and so you might say, 
jer. 2.8. Ter. the prescript. advers. Haeret. c. 36. Vnde autem extran●i & inimici Aposto●i● haeretici, nisi●ex diversitate doctrinae, quam unusquisque de suo arbitrio, adversus Apostolos, aut protulit aut recepit.  doth the want of right qualification and conscionable discharge of his duty, for God hath threatened both the one and the other, that they shall be no priests unto him; both the one and the other are idols in phrase of Scripture. But he can not be a minister in a society of Christians, professing the true and entire faith, and enjoying the blessing of the Sacraments, who is utterly destitute of an outward calling. In some Churches the calling is more complete and exact than in others, and at some times things have been more orderly handled than at others: but in all Churches there is an outward calling, and effectual to the truth of the ministry.  
Long since it was objected against the Nonconformists, that they say, the Gospel is not truly preached in England, because there is no lawful calling to the ministry, whereunto they have returned this answer: We do not say, that there is no lawful, or no ordinary calling in England: for we do not deny, but that he may be lawfully called, which is not ordinarily, as Luther, Melancthon, Zuinglius: and there be places in England, where the Ministers are called by their parishes, in such sort as the examples of Scripture do show to have been done before the Eldership and government of the Church was established. 
T.C. repl. 1. answ. to the exhor. p. 3.  I know not any that saith, the Gospel is not truly preached in England, and by those that are not of the same judgement, that the admonition to the Parliament is of.    

CAN. Necess. of Separ. pag. 55.  
The Ministry of England, as it is established by law, doth certainly depend upon the Bishops calling wholly, and no man● else: and if any in the Land stand otherwise he cannot properly be said to be a Minister of that Church, but rather is a schismatic from it, 
Id. p. 57  according to the formal constitution of it, etc. The most free Parish hath but only a liberty to admit of a Minister, before made by the Bishops, so that the people give him not any part, much less the substance of his calling, 
Id. p. 61.  but a bare permission only to exercise by virtue of that calling. But none may hear or have spiritual communion with such a Ministry, 
Id. p. 213.  whose calling doth essentially depend upon the Bishop's calling. If the ministry of the Prelates belong not to any ordinary assemblies, then is the same Antichristian, and so consequently is that which is derived from it. And so much from their own principles we have formerly proved. 
Id. p. 213.  The Ministry begotten by the Prelatesis illegitimate and false. I say those, which take their offices and callings from them, are bastardly Ministers. The Ordination of Priests and Deacons by the Prelates is unlawful and Antichristian, and the Ministry is false, so long as they do retain that false calling, which they took first of the Bishops, 
Id. p. 45.  they of the Pope, and he from the Devil Whosoever he be that dealeth with the holy things of God, and worketh upon the consciences of men, 
See CAN Stay. §. 6. p. 78.79.  by virtue of an Antichristian power, office and calling, him the people of God ought not to receive, or join themselves unto. But all the Parsons, Vicars, Parish Priests, stipendaries, etc. that stand over the Church Assemblies in England, deal with the holy things of God, and work upon men's consciences by virtue of an Antichristian power, office and calling.  

ANSWER.  
Upon this one prop lieth all the weight of your building, whe●em you strangely triumph, as if you had stopped the mouth of the Non-conformists for ever, that either they must go bacl from what they have written against the abuses of the ministry, or confess they have said and unsaid as occasions have changed, now maintaining that as right, which even now they condemned as false and Antichristian. And this you press over and over with great confidence and insolency. But this stay I have plucked out of your hands already, and shown that this exception hath no weight or soundness, either from truth or Non-conformists principles.  
In answer to this renewed blast of words, I will briefly repeat what hath been proved more at large. 
Bilson Christian subject part 2. page 296. Bishops have their Authority to preach and administer the Sacraments, not from the Prince, but from Christ Himself, Go teach all Nations, etc. only the Prince giveth him publiked liberty, without let o● disturbance to do that which Christ commandeth. Id. p. 309. The charge which the Preachers and Bishops of England have over their flocks proceedeth neither from Prince nor Pope, ner dependeth on the will or word of any earthly creature. Chaloner Credo, second par● §. 2. He which confers Baptism and Orders as the principal Donor is Christ: the Bishop or Pastor confers them only as his instrument. August. contr. Crescon. l. 4. c 6. per ministros d●spares Dei mi●us aequ●● est, quit●n ●●illorum sed ejus est. CAN. Stay. §. 3. p. 60. August. in Psalm 10. Christ sent him that betrayed him: Bilson Christ: subject: part. 2. p. 860. The ghostly work is Gods, the bodily service is the Priests, wherein judas the thief, Simon the Sorcerer, etc. may challenge as James, etc.   
First, the Ministers of the Gospel, derive not their authority or office from the Bishop, Patron, Presbytery or people, but immediately from jesus Christ, whose servants they are, whose words they preach, whose Sacraments they administer, whose flock they feed, by whom they are protected, and to whom they must give account. If he be an Antichristian Minister who derives his authority from the Classis or Bishop, he is Antichristian likewise who derives it from the community of the faithful: for neither the one; nor the other can justly challenge that authority to themselves.  
The Bishop, College Ecclesiastical or Church, cannot make a Minister formally or virtually, but only as Stewards they put him in office whom Christ the King of Saints and head of the Church hath designed. Wherein, if Pastors or people shall walk disorderly, challenging more than of right belongeth unto them, or giving up their right through sloth, negligence, ignorance or security: or not attending unto the direction of the great Shepherd of the flock, shall choose a man unfit or not well qualified, or shall proceed rashly, tumultuously upon misguided affection, in that weighty business; though they incur just blame and reprehension, yet that makes not a nullity of the Ministry, or of the Ordinances dispensed upon that Election and Ordination. Yourself telleth us, and that from the example of the Scribes and Pharisees, That men being lawfully called to the Ministry are to be heard, howsoever in some qualifications defective. And if disorderly proceeding in election, or want of just and fit qualification in the person elected, do not make the election void: how shall the mere want of consent in the people cause a nullity in the ministration? If the careless or wilful neglect of administration and execution of his office cause not a nullity of the choice, 
unreasonableness of Separ. p. 56. They may acknowledge a further calling than that of the Prelates & yet not therein renounce the calling received from them, for the Prelates being learned Divines and having approved their gifts, and by words and Letter te stimoniall giving liberty to execute the Ministry of the Gospel, they do not thereby thrust them into a Ministry, but leave them, &c An Examine. of D. ●. Cen. p. 33.  why shall the lack of the people's suffrage, which they voluntarily have given away, or otherwise lost, make the ordinances dispensed by him that is chosen to be of none effect?  
2. The consent of the people is not required to make a man simply a Minister, neither doth Episcopal Ordination make a man the Minister of this or that people. Therefore it doth not hinder, but a man may be made Minister by the Bishops according to the constitutions of the Church, and a Minister of this or that people, by the free choice, approbation and consent of the faithful. So in the fourth age of the Church, sometimes the people would choose a Minister, whom they thought meet, and afterward bring him to the Bishop to be admitted by him, as appeareth in the work of chrysostom de Sacer: of the choosing of Basil, when john chrysostom himself gave him the slip. Sometimes the Bishop would espy a meet man himself, and require the consent of the people to choose, ●s it appeareth by Augustine in the election of Eradius to be his successor.  
3. The Papists themselves who stand so much upon the necessity of succession, and ordination by three Bishops, according to the constitutions of the Church, 
Bellar. de Eccl. l. 3. c. 10. S. Ad Secundum.  are yet forced to acknowledge, That to know that Pastors are true, there is required neither faith, not lawful Election, but this only that they be acknowledged such of the Church, and that they hold the place of Christ de facto, though not de jure. And seeing you pretend to build upon the Non-conformists principles, you may take notice of their profession, which is this. Baptism administered by Popish Priests is good and sufficient, and they are to be accounted for Ministers, though they be not good and lawful Ministers, but usurpers and intruders; The like may be said of such as without ordinary calling, 
An Examine. of D. W. Cen. art. 11 page 14.  counterfeit themselves to be Ministers, and so deceive the Church. In these the secret consent of the Church receiving them for Ministers, until their wicked usurpation be espied, may be sufficient to authorise their ministry toward others.    

CAN. Necess. of Separ. Page. 234.  
If I were not unwilling to give occasion unto the Bishops to insult over these men, I could hence manifest much bad dealing in them; but I will forbear for the present, and do refer the Reader to their own principles, which is, 
Jd. page 239. CAN. Necess. of Separ. p. 221. Are the Princes of the earth bound by God's Laws to maintain the ordinary ministry of your Assemblies? then have you from time to time shamefully mocked and abused them, in craving so earnestly for their aid, to have and place thereof. CAN. Stay. Sect. 1. page 50.  that all Ecclesiastical officers ought necessarily to be made by the free choice of the Congregation, wherein they are to administer. And, if they can prove all this, I do not see, but the Controversy may easily be taken up, between them and the Bishops, only then they have just cause to beg pardon of them, for their pleas against their Prelacy, and the main heavy accusations, which they have put up both to Princes and Parliaments against them.  

ANSWER.  
Here you play the Rhetorician, and make show what you could do, but that you will for the present take some compassion upon the Non-conformists. Whereunto I will return no other answer, than what you have made to my hand. As for your mincing figure of extenuation, (I could hence manifest) I like it not. For you do here none otherwise than if a Thief, when he hath stripped a man out of all that he hath, would feign yet be counted merciful, in that he doth not murder him or bind him, as some others have done. Let any indifferent man read your writings, and he will say, you have not spared your opposites, but shot at them Arrows of bitter words, and made them as odious and vile as man can do. But blessed is he that is not offended at the truth for such things. Look upon yourself in that which you say against your opposites. You refer yourself to their Principles, and they make nothing for you, as it hath been alreadly showed, and you might see yourself, if you did not shut your eyes.  
The reason which here you bring, is but your own saying, said over many times, and indeed bewrayeth more cunning, 
CAN. Stay. §. 2. page 55.  than reason, truth or Consciene, and (to speak in your phrase) sophistry than sincerity.  
For in plain terms this is your form of arguing; If the Episcopal ordination be not a mere nullity: 

Vnreasonabl. of Separ. page 54. I know none having received Ordination from the Prelates, that need deny that they preach partly by virtue of the Ministry which they have taken from them.  
T. C. repl. 1. Ep. By exercising unlawful authority, and by taking unto them partly such things, as belong by no means unto the Church, and partly which are common unto them, with the whole Church, or else with others the Ministers and Governors of the same.   if the ministry of the idle, careless, profane, yea of the learned, godly and painful, be not a mere Idol, then have the Non-conformists just cause to beg pardon of the Prelates: which hangeth together as a rope of sand. The ministry of the Priests, Scribes and Pharisees was true in time of the Old Testament, and in the days of our Saviour Christ: had the Prophets then and our Saviour just cause to beg pardon, because they accused them of ignorance, pride, tyranny, contempt of the truth, oppressions, hypocrisy, as blind guides and ravening Wolves, who spoilt and made havoc of the flocks.  
The Non-conformists never deemed the ministry of the Church of England for the substance and essential parts thereof to be false and Idolatrous, nor craved the aid of the Prince and Parliament, to have it quite, or in part, abolished (you have just cause to beg pardon that slander them in this manner) But they complain of abuses in the ministry, and these they desire might be reform; That the ministry might be more pure and incorrupt. They complain of the usurpation of some, who challenge that as peculiar to themselves, which belongeth to their brethren in common; who admit the basest of the people, into the office of the ministry; do that by their sole pleasure, which should be done by common Counsel, 
King Canutus made a Law by the Counsel of his sages at Winchester. That Bishops be Preachers and Teachers of God's Law, and careful followers of good, works. Leg. 26. And that every Christian learn so much, that he can the true faith and the true understanding thereof, namely, the Lords Prayer, and the Creed, or else not to have Christian burial, neither to be admitted whiles he liveth to the Lords Table, etc. Amb. de dignit, sacerdot. ca 3. Quantò prae caeteris gradus Episcopalis altior est, tanto si per negligenti●m dilabadur ruina gravior est Magna sublimitas magnam debet habere cautelam; CAN. Stay. S. 12. p. 120: Honour grandis, grandiori debet solici●udine circumvallors.  and disregard the consent and approbation of the Church, both in Ordinations and excommunications: and if the ministry of the Church of England be true for substance might they not without blame desire and crave the reformation of this abuse? they complain of the pompous non-resident who feed themselves and regard not the flock, strive after preferment and heap up live, but labour not in the word and doctrine, nor look after the welfare of men's souls: they accuse these as the poison and bane of the Church, or unfaithful shepherds, who leave the flock to be dispersed and scattered, and yet they will not say, their ministry is false or Idolatrous or a mere nullity; do they then shamefullly mock or abuse the Prince or Parliament, in petitioning, that this gross corruption might be reform! They accuse the ignorant, careless, profane Ministers of neglect of their office, and unworthy any place or standing of honour in the house of GOD: have they cause to ask pardon of this also, if they shall, think their ministry may be effectual to the faithful?  
A Minister lawfully called (say you) according to Christ's institution, is incontinently upon his outward lawful calling a true Minister, let his practices afterward be good or bad. Put case then the Church should accuse such a Minister, utterly neglecting his charge, or inclining to say Mass and Matins, or lose and scandalous in behaviour, as unworthy his place and office, have they just cause to crave pardon of him, because they acknowledged him to be a Minister, but unworthily? Many abuses not to be tolerated may cleave to the Ministry, when the ministry itself, is not to be cast off, as altogether ineffectual.     

SECTION 9 CAN Necess. of Separ. pag. 27.28.  
The Learned generally affirm, 
Rhem. anno●. in I●. 10. anno. 1. and in 1. Cor. 10. Sect. 22.  that it is unlawful to communicate in a false ministry. Par. Com. in Matth. 7.15 All those without doubt are to be taken for deceivers, who take upon them the office of teaching, without a true calling and a little after he saith. That so much being discovered 〈◊〉 Christian must 〈◊〉 hid ●are against them, 
Dow. in a Reg. 5. v. 19 and Psal. 15. p. 56. Admon. 1. to the Parliament p. 27. T. C. reply, 1. pag. 83.155. CAN. Stay. p. 5.62, 63, 71, 113, 118, 119, etc.  and fly from them as from Wolves. Muscul●● in Matth. 7.15. saith the like Cope in Prov. 10.20. speaketh as much, and giveth this reason for it, because they destroy both bodies and souls of a● many as e●t her believe or reverence them. Zanch in Phil. 3.2. Ralloc. come. in 1 Thes. 5.11. page 228. Riu. in Psal. 16. page 52.53. Oecolamp. in Isa ●●2. fol. 20. Cal. in Psal. 16. Fen. in Song, 1.6.7. Cornel. a Lapid: Com. in john Ep. 2. page 505. saith, False Ministers are favoured and approved in their unlawful way, when they are bound● Par. in Hosea 13.2. Sedul. in 2 Reg. 5. M●●ty loc. com●p. 119 Virels Grounds, in lib. 2. p. 103. Zanch in ●rac. 3. p. 534.  

ANSWER.  
Blaming your Treatiser that he comes so naked into the field, 
CAN Stay. Sect. 12. p. 119.  you say, I never saw in my life an error held by a man of Learning, that hath less brought to countenance it than this. For whereas others do commonly quote Scriptures (albeit misapplyed) and allege for themselves the judgements of other men, 
Hieron. in Psalm 5. Omn● qui ma●è intillig it. Scripturas, in via Dei corruit.  He goeth not this way to work. And better it is to go plainly and simply to work in the defence of his cause, than to wrest Scripture, misalledge Authors, and abuse a show of Learning to seduce and beguile the simple. But you have made choice of the more common, though the most sinful course. You pretend Scriptures, but handle them amiss: Quote Authors, but chop and change their words, force them to speak, what they never meant; and when all is done, they will be found to make nothing for, but direct against you. 
Ambr. Intus in animo perdant, modo victores abscedant. CAN. Necess. of Separ. p. 227. Tertul. de Virgi. veland: If Christ w●re ever & afore all, the truth is as ancient and everlsting.  You make use of Logical Maxims and Theological Principles, but your mistakes are gross and palpable in the application of them. Some men (you say) in matters of controversy care not though they lose the peace of Conscience, so they may gain their supposed victory. And if you have not offered violence to your Conscience in those writings, you have not advisedly considered what you have done.  
To make this manifest in some particulars not formerly mentioned; It is an infallible Maxim you say, (as Doctor Usher and others observe out of Tertulli●n.) Whatsoever is first, that is truest, and what comes after, is adulterate. 

CAN. Stay. sect. 2. p. 14. Usher. de Christ. Eceles. success. & stat. c. 1. p. 19 Field of the Ch. lib. 2. c. 5. page 49. CAN. Stay. sect. 2. p. 11. For with reverence to the phrase; From the beginning it was not so.  
Basil. ep. 79. Non est aequum ut quae apud ipsos obtinuit consuetudo, pro lege & canone habeatur rectae doct. inae, Henry Answ. first ans. p. 31. I grant your Church is ancient, but I deny it to be most ancient: seeing then the most ancient (by your own grant) is most true, etc.  
CAN. Stay. sect. 4. p. 27. T. C. repl. 1. p. 79. D. T. W. The Doctors of the Synod. 5.6. Wars are judged by their causes and not by their consequences Bilson Christian subject part. 3. page 201.   The first in any kind or sort of things, is truest and best, so Field. This is spoken of the prime, first, original being of each thing, which is a sure proof of goodness and perfection. For all defects found in things are swervings, declinings, and departures, from their original and first estate. For truth is before falsehood, and good before evil, and habit before privation. But you miserably apply that Rule to the first judgement of the separated Church in London, concerning the hearing of the Word preached, in our English Assemblies, as if it must be truest, because it was first, and their after judgement adulterate, because it followed.  
You distinguish not betwixt the effect and the event; which I will not say was done ignorantly or unadvisedly. To reason from the effect of things (you say) is unsound, and unconcludable by the Scriptures. This is, as if a man would say, the Midwives which lied to Pharaoh, did much good to the Israelites, etc. And then you go forward to produce testimonies, that things are to be esteemed by their causes, and not by the event, and that things are not true, because useful.  
But your Pistoler argueth from the effect, not from the event, from the proper effect, not the effect by accident, as you might easily perceive, but that you took liberty to deride what you could not answer. Thus he argueth, The Doctrine taught in the Church of England is the sound and true doctrine of salvation, profitable to beget faith, and to build men forward unto life eternal (not by accident, but of itself) and is ordinarily blessed of God to that end and purpose: Therefore it is not unlawful to hear the word preached in their assemblies. What you talk of Cain's murder, judas his Treachery, the good that comes by Schisms and Heresies, is only to please yourself with by-matters: for the argument is drawn from the proper effect, in respect of means instituted, appointed and blessed of God.  
This Canon is true, if truly applied, and rightly limited, 
CAN. Stay. sect. 4. p. 20. and sect. 10. p. 111.  parium par ratio est, & contrariorum eadem est ratio. But as you apply it, no good Logician would acknowledge it. For though the word which doth ordinarily beget men unto God, aught to be heard, yet we cannot conclude on the contrary. the word which doth not ordinarily beget is not to be heard. For the word is but a moral cause or instrument of faith and repentance, whereby the Spirit worketh not necessarily, but at pleasure. If therefore the Spirit work by the word as his instrument, it is of God and we are bound to hear it: But if God work not by it, effectually to saving conversion, it is of him notwithstanding: So this affirmative is true, sin deserveth death: but this negative will not follow on the contrary, good works deserve life. For of justice death is due to the sinner as his wages, but eternal life is the gift of grace. The Papists argue thus. Disgrace done to an Image tendeth to dishonour God; and therefore by the Rule of Contraries; Honour done to an Image, tendeth to the honour of GOD. Their inference and yours turn both upon the same hinges.  
And I might truly say unto you in your own words. 
Ibid.  Have you not here showed yourself an acute disputer, for to pull down Bethel you build Babel; to condemn the true hearing of God's Word, you commend Idolatry. Consider therefore your own reasons, and be not so rash and hasty to disgrace your brethren.  
Your obscure translating of Philosophical Canons, 

CAN. Stay. Sect. 2. pag 54.  
CAN. Stay. Sect. 9 pag. 100   I will pass over, as Relata sunt simul natura, which you English thus; Relations in nature are alike: and apply it as strangely. Qualis causa, tale causatum, you translate thus; As is the cause, so that which is caused, of the doing of the thing: Idem qua idem semper facit idem; which you render. As is the same so always follows the same effect: whereby you turn principles or Canons at least into riddles, and it is hard to say, whether your interpretation be more obscure, or misapplication unreasonable (to speak in your language) as vain as ever man made.  
For that which is spoken of causes univocal, necessary and proper at least, that you refer to moral instruments; as if the word preached by wicked instruments might not be effectual, or a man could not hear an ungodly Minister preach the Gospel, but he must partake in his sin. 
CAN. Stay. Sect. pag. Sect. 3.16.17. Id. Sect. 4. pag. 28. & sect. 5. p. 40. sect 1. p. 49. sect. 4. p. 62.63, 67, 72, 73 74, 75.   
You are large in proving what is not questioned; as that God must be served as he hath appointed: That it sufficeth not to intent a good end, but the means must be lawful: That men must not bow their knees to an Idol, under pretence that they reserve their hearts unto God: That we must be earnest and zealous against Idolatry: That the matter of worship must be grounded on the word, 
Consciences shall never find any sure port to run unto, but only God Calf. p. 22.  and that it must be done in a right and lawful manner, order, form or way: That the law of God is the rule of conscience; That custom must not prescribe against truth; That we must not do evil that good may come thereof, with other the like, which you know well, your Opposites do believe and maintain. But that God is not worshipped in our assemblies as he hath appointed: That to hear the word preached in our congregations is pernicious Idolatry: that the means therein be unlawful, that the ministry is Idolatrous; or the worship vain; that you prove not, either by Scripture or any learned & approved Author, whatsoever you bring in both your books to this purpose, besides your own peremptory actions may be shut up in few words.  
The Authors which you quote, are oftimes abused, you mangle their words and make them seem to speak what they never meant or intended. 
CAN Stay sect. 3. p. 57  The truths they teach (you say) speaking of the Ministers of the English Church) are from God, but the office which gives them power and charge to speak them is from Antichrist, and a special character or mark (as the learned write of the beast). 
Simon on Rev. pag. 120. Acts & Mon. edit. 5. pag. 588. On Rev. ca 14.9. Though Priests & Deacons for preaching God's word, ministering the sacramets, with provision for the poor be grounded on God's law, yet have these sects no manner of ground thereof, L. Cobh, Act. and Mon. p. 514 5●5.  Thus said john Chaydon a Martyr of Christ: The Bishop's licence to preach the Word of God, is the true character of the beast, that is, of Antichrist, The like M. Bale and others: But no word sounding that way, is to be found in M. Simons, Since their law of Confirmation was made (saith he) the Bishop with the Chrism doth sign the party in the forehead with the character of the cross, And since they made their new office or sacerdotal, thus they make their cate chumine. The child or party is brought to the Church doors, where the Priest maketh a cross with his thumb on the forehead of the child, and at the font, the priest maketh a cross in the right hand of the child, etc. Thus this Author, but to your purpose not one word. M. Bale was so fare from condemning the office of Bishops simply as Antichristian, that he himself was Bishop of Osiris in Ireland: And how likely it is then, that he should absolutely condemn a Bishop's licence to preach the Gospel of Jesus Christ in the Churches of Christ, as the mark and Character of the beast, let any man judge? What he might condemn, in some respect and consideration in popish bishops, as they stand sworn slaves, to that Antichrist of Rome; that cannot be drawn to the testimony of Bishops 
CAN Neces. of separ. p. 25●.  who have cast off the authority, and renounced the doctrine of Antichrist: And the same may be answered to the testimony of John Ch●ydon.  
You many times repeat, that upon the Nonconformists grounds to return unto the service in the Church of England, is to join with Idolaters in Idolatry. This no doubt is a vehement accusation, if it can be proved: if it be rashly surmised, than it is as pestilent a slander: But ground out of the Nonconformists for such conclusions you have showed none nor once take notice of that which is alleged to the contrary, which you could not but see, if you could have found any exception against it. They do not deny, but there is a visible Church of God in England, and therefore your saying of them, that they do almost in plain and flat terms, say that we have not so much as any outward face, and show of the true Church, argueth that you have almost no love in you, which upon one word once uttered, contrary to the tenor of their book, 
T.C. repl. 1. p. 8. Vnreasonab. of separation p. 81.  and course of their whole life, surmise this of them. Thus a chief Nonconformist long ago. Another in the book, which you pretend to answer, and in these very pages, He most shamefully and lewdly, as a man void of all common honesty and grace, maketh the Ministers of Lincoln to affirm, that the Prelates are reviled to be great Antichrists and their Ministry and constitution, to be great troublers of the Church at this day, and that it cannot but be very sinful and hurtful to retain or communicate with them. 
CAN Stay §. 3. p. 59.69. Rai●old. de idelo●l. 2. c. 1. §. 2. Bilson. Christ. subj. part. 3. pag. 269. The Devil himself can show no greater malice, than to pervert that which is well spoken: and to force a lewd senes of his own or another man's words  The Devil himself would have been ashamed in this open manner to have told such a lie, and therefore he is to be trusted no further, than he is seen. This you pass over in silence; and if the substance of the accusation be applied unto yourself, I know not what apology you can make.  
Christ (saith Rainolds as you quote him) the Pastor of his Church, doth tell us, that he feeds not in Antichristian assemblies, in the den of thiefs; neither is it his will, that his flock should there rest at noon: But in the pleasant pasture, by the still waters, that is, in the shadows of the true Christian Churches detesting Idolatry. But D. Rainolds words are, not in caetibus papisticis, speluncis idol●latrarum, etc. but in untbraculis orthodoxorumcatuum. Whether this change of Antichristian Assemblies, for popish Assemblies, and true Christian Churches for Orthodox Assemblies, 
CAN Stay § 3. p 22. D. 〈◊〉 by words and Letters testimonial 2●4.  w● made in simplicity, be judge yourself. You might easily conjecture, your credulous reader might conceit, our assemblies to be Antichristian, and not true Churches, but popish Assemblies, and not Orthodox he could not imagine them to be.  
You allege D. Amos saying, It cannot be a true Church that wants order; For by this the parts and members thereof are knit together. But this is not to be found in the place mentioned: But D. Aines moving the question, whether it be lawful to stick to that Church, from whom power of removing scandals, and purging out the ungodly, is taken away? He answereth. That power, ejure & quoad actum primum, cannot be separated from the true Church, because immediately and necessarily it floweth from the essence itself, for it is contained in that covenant, whereby the faithful are gathered into a Church. The use of this power cannot be taken away, without the great sin of them that take it away, and the heinous injury of them from whom it is taken. Neither ought the Church to rest in this, that, she seethe herself unjustly oppressed of others. For it belongeth to the office of the Church to defend that liberty, where with she is endowed of Christ. But yet if the faithful contending for their liberty, cannot obtain their right in that part, nor without grievous inconveniences come to a more free Church, and can keep themselves from the approbation of evil, and do also study as much as in them lieth to supply that want, they sinne not, if they join themselves to such a Church, or continue in it; Thus D. Ames, clean contrary to that which you make him affirm.  
Master Baines, as you allege him, writeth. 
CAN Stay sect. 2. p. 55. Bain. diocesan.  That no people can worship God in repairing to any Church or ministry without warrant of the Word. Let the Reader note it, say you. And if it be wisely noted, it makes nothing against partaking in our assemblies in the ordinances of Grace, because that is warranted, approved; commanded of God in his holy Word. But Master Baines words, are, No people can worship God in repairing to this place and ministry, without warrant of his Word. And he speaks of a Diocesan worship, and ministry peculiarly appropriated to that place, as it was at Jerusalem: which is nothing to your purpose.  
You pretend that you have taken your principles, out of the Nonconformists, ever the chiefest of them, which for learning, 
CAN Neces. of separ. To the Read.  zeal, judgement, holiness of life, etc. have ever held that cause. But some things brought in their names, is neither the opinion of all, nor of the most, nor of the best learned, nor of many, but either the private opinion of some one, or the conceit of such indeed, as were separated from the communion of the Church of England, and not from the abuses only which were in the Church.  
You cite Master Penry saying, 
CAN stay sect. 3. p. 57 M. Penry of the Ministry of the Church of Engl. p. 37.38. CAN Neces. of separ. p. 16 28.43. Exhortation to the government of Wales. 42, 46, 26 CAN Neces. of separation, Epist. to the Reader. CAN Neces. of separ. p. 252.  It is most certain, Satan rules in the consciences of men, not only by false doctrine, but also by his false power and ordinances; his kingdom of darkness not only consisteth in the lies, false doctrine and worship, which he hath coined, but also in the false and Antichristian ordinances, which he hath invented for the ruling of his idolatrous den. And therefore the children and Saints of God, aught to avoid both the one and the other. But whatsoever his meaning be, in that or other passages cited, Master Penry was not a Nonconformist but a Separatist, by your own confession, and therefore his say are not to be received for the Nonconformists principles.  
Master Br. saith, It is lawful to communicate in that worship where the ceremonies are used: but we cannot believe him, (say you) for his brethren both affirm and prove the contrary. And here now is a fit place, to write down the words, whereof mention was made in p. 99 partly because the author is a principle Nonconformist, and partly to discover the rashness and folly of this inconsiderate man, which durst without any reason (more than boldness) still justify the very thing, which his brethren by many sound arguments, have manifested to be evil and unlawful: and then you go on to rehearse the words of the author, of a dispute upon communicating at confused communions, pag. 68.69.  
Who that Author is I know not, the book I have not seen, but by the words which you relate, it appears he was no English Nonconformist, neither doth he speak of communicating in our English societies. And if he did, he speaks but his private opinion, and not what is the judgement of Nonconformists. It may be questioned, whether Master Br. book was not penned and published, before he could either see or think of the other. But whatsoever is to be thought in that particular, M. Br. knew it to be the common practice and uniform judgement of all Nonconformists in England, both heretofore, and at that present when he wrote, that it is lawful, 
A dispute against Engl. part 1. ca 9 sect. 3. p, 32. The practice of the greatest part of the reformed Churches in observing holy days, cannot commend them in the Church of Scotland. 1 Because she did spew them out wi●h so great detestation, that she is more bound to abhor them, than other Churches, which did not the like: & I may well apply that to them which Caivin saith of the ceremonies of some to Valentinus Pacaeus.  concedam faetidas illas sordes quibus purgatae fuerunt Ecclesiae vestrae, in rebus med is posse censeri, carum tamen restitutio erit res media. CAN Stay sect. 5. p 75.76.  and in some cases necessary, to receive the Sacrament with them that kneel in our assemblies. And now consider to whom the imputation of folly, boldness, inconsiderateness, and (if you will) falsehood, is justly to be attributed.  
To these particulars I will add one more, whereby we may learn what we are to expect and look for at your hands. I think to make known unto thee (thus you writ) what happened about seven years passed in England. There was a Gentleman of Warwickshire, by name M. Edward Greswold a man very religious, as many besides myself can testify: He and I being bosom friends (or to use his own common saying, our hearts being as david's and jonathans' knit together,) upon just cause we both left the parish assemblies. He afterward by the means of some crafty men, was persuaded unto hearing again: upon this he fell into great trouble of Spirit, and could have no feeling assurance of any peace with God: remaining thus a while, at length he sent a letter by his servant unto me (the which I have kept a long time by me) in this letter he largely acknowledgeth his offence, and among other passages writes thus: Ah you are happy but I by my fall am miserable and wretched, and for the present time, I feel my soul to be no otherwise, than if I were in Hell, etc. ever since I went to their assemblies, I have observed the Lords hand against me. etc. Wherefore I beseech you by the mercies of God, set a day apart for me, and seek the Lord by fasting and praying, that the water-flood overflow me not, etc. what his refresh were after this I cannot say, the report is, that to his changing he had sad and sorrowful days: notwithstanding I am confident, that his soul is with Christ in paradise. As I am writing this, I think of the words of the Prophet, My flesh trembleth for fear of thee, and I am afraid of thy judgements. He that is wise will consider of these things: For as one saith, providing before, is better than repenting afterward. 
Psal. 119, 120. Hal. Antiq. Rom. lib. 11  It is no marvel that false Churches, by some are called officina scelerum, & carnificina sanctorum, shops of wickedness, and shambles of the Saints: for what can a tender conscience expect in frequenting them, but indeed pricks, racks and tortures? This is your Relation and the use you make thereof.  
But if you know not how it fared with this distressed Gentleman, thus it was: He shut up himself and his children in his house, and would come at no man, nor suffer any man to come at him, lest he should communicate with them in their sin. Sustenance for himself and his Children was brought unto them, and put in at some hole or window, but he suffered no man to come in to minister unto them, no not when his children and he himself lay sick in great misery. When by order his house was broken open (for the Justices of peace in consideration of his case were constrained thereunto) two of his children were found dead in the house, and one had lain so long unburied, that the body was corrupted and did annoy the room. The Gentleman himself sick on his bed, in woeful plight. His Bible he had gone through, and cut out the contents, titles and every thing, but the very Text itself. This I have received from credible hands, and it is a matter known through that country where he lived. And if you mark it wisely, you may see the original of his sorrow and heaviness, was not from the hearing of the Word in our assemblies, but from your principles, which he had too deeply drunk in, and out of a desire to keep and observe, made himself desolate. It is very likely he thought with himself, that if by hearing the doctring of grace he did communicate with men in their sins, much more was guilt contracted by civil conversings. And if you will try it in right reason, I cannot see how that consequence from your principles can be avoided. Now he desirous to stick to what he had learned, and not to delude himself with vain distinctions, as too many of the separation do, fell first into deep perplexity, and then at last came unto that desperate conclusion, to shut up himself and his children. It is one of your principles, That all humane devices whatsoever in the worship of God are idolatrous: and therefore conceiving the contents of the Chapters, and titles of the books to be of men, he cut them out. And further it is likely he would have gone, if his thoughts had reached further in this matter. It was your great sin to persuade him to separation; and it is your great sin now to impute the cause of his sorrow, distress, and anguish, to his hearing the Word in our societies, when as it was the natural fruit of his rash and sinful separation, or of those positions, whereupon his separation was builded, wherein if he was not first instructed, he had been built up by you. Let false Churches be shops of wickedness, and the shambles of the Saints: In our societies the doctrine of faith and piety is sound and purely taught, our adversaries being judges: a thousand thousands can testify by experience what oule-ravishing comforts, and sweet communion with God may be had therein. When you wrote these things, you had just cause, to take shame and sorrow, that you had brought a poor soul thus into the snare of your seducements: but to take occasion thereby to encourage others, harden yourself in an evil way, and to revile and slander the heritage of the Lord, is an argument of how great perverseness? You are confident he is with Christ in paradise, and I will not go about to lessen your confidence therein. But if you may be confident of him, may not we be confident of the Martyrs, who died cheerfully for the testimony of the Lord Jesus, being professed members of our societies? Infallible knowledge of another's salvation we challenge not, but what you can pronounce confidently of one, we may with equal or greater confidence pronounce of many, who laid down their lives for the truth of God. And therefore the reason drawn from the practice of the Martyrs, professing against Antichrist, who lived and died members of our Societies, and are received into glory, to prove that our societies are not Antichristian, idolatrous, false worship, is neither absurd nor childish, howsoever you are pleased to spurn and kick at it. Peruse your own manner of arguing employed here, 
CAN Neces. of separat. p. 190: 191.  and then speak of your answer to the other: be not rash and partial.  
As for the particular point in hand, the authors alleged by you, speak nothing to your purpose. For men may run when they be not sent two ways. First, when they are outwardly called, but not inwardly qualified, as with knowledge, truth, holiness, or care to do the duties of their place, and these are lawful and unlawful Ministers both: lawful as Ministers of God's providence, for the punishment of some, and the good of others, unlawful as not approved of God in their place and standing. Secondly, when they have no manner of calling, neither set apart by men in authority, nor received by the Church, nor qualified as they ought, and these are every way unlawful. Again false Prophets are of two sorts. I Such as spring up in the Church, teaching corrupt or perverse things, but either not discovered, or not convicted, or not cast out. These the faithful must not believe, though they may not forsake or cast off the Societies where such are tolerated. 2. Such as teach damnable doctrines, are not set apart to offices false and idolatrous, and either never were in the society of the true Church, or be lawfully convicted, and justly cast out, and with these the faithful must hold no communion,  
This is that which the learned teach, as it hath been showed, but it makes nothing at all to your purpose. For you can never prove from Scripture, reason or Nonconformists principles, either that the ministry of the Church of England is absolutely false, or that any Ministers in the Church be false in the second acceptation of the word.  
It is needless to proceed further in the examination of particular Authors, 
CAN Stay sect. 12. p. 118:  because you yourself do affirm as much. The godly (say you) are admonished to examine doctrines delivered to them in a right way and order. And if they find any by teaching to be a false Prophet, 
Id. sect. 11. p. 115.  they are to depose him, and afterwards not to hear him again. Again, it is a question whether the godly in the Jewish Church, having by hearing discovered the Scribes and Pharisees to be strangers, that is, false Prophets, might afterward hear them again. 
Robin's. justif of separa. p. 434.  The Treatiser was once of mind, that they might not, and gave some reasons for it. But howsoever the case is not easily to be determined, considering the state of that Church and time: yet this is clear to all men of sound judgement, that in the Churches now under the Gospel, false Prophets may not be suffered: But after due and orderly conviction (being found so, and obstinate) they are to be rejected, and so no outward hearing of them any more. Whence briefly let these things be noted. First, that the effects may be right and lawful, when the instruments are wrong and unlawful in themselves, and that a man may lawfully communicate, in the effects of such actions, whose instruments are unlawful. For the Scribes and Pharisees were unlawful instruments, by your own confession, 
T.C. to his sister Anne Stubs. You have indeed enough that bitterly speak against us: but having no reproofs in their mouths, nor arguments to confute their thunderbolts of judgement and condemnation, are like headless arrows, not taken out of the Lords quiver, but from their own sides, etc.  but the effects of their ministry, in which the faithful might and did lawfully communicate. A false Prophet not discovered, not convicted orderly, before he can be deemed obstinate and cast forth, is an unlawful instrument, but you will not say, the effects of his Ministry are unlawful, and not to be communicated in. I might here add, that is unskilful to confound instruments and working causes, or link them together, as if there were the same reason of both, seeing all instruments are not working causes. Secondly the Ministers of the Church of England, have not duly and orderly been convinced of corruption in doctrine, especially in points fundamental, or that their place and standing is unlawful: much less can they be esteemed obstinate. They were never cast out by the faithful, and true members of the Church, but approved, maintained and reverenced by them: All reformed Churches, all the faithful in the reformed Churches do acknowledge them the servants of Jesus Christ, approve their standing, reverence their gifts, hold communion with them, profess the same doctrine which they maintain, and praise God for his blessing upon their labours. And now consider with what uprightness and integrity you have alleged these Authors, against the hearing of the word in our English Assemblies, as if all the Ministers of the Church were false Prophets, convicted, obstinate, and outed the Church.  
You tell us peremptorily, 
CAN. Necess. of Separ. p. 188.  If the reformed Churches do justify the English, therein they condemn greatly their own practice: for in their constitution, ministry, worship and Government they are as opposite as light and darkness one to the other. 
Bilson Christ, subject part 4 p. 542. We would have you regard, if not your consciences before God yet your credits before men.  Can you find nothing to object, that the Sun doth not shine at Noonday? Is it not apparent to all the Christian world, that the reformed Churches do give unto us the right hand of fellowship, and esteem as us the true Churches of jesus Christ? In manner of government they differ from us, and they have abolished some rites and Ceremonies, which we retain as matters indifferent, not as matters of holiness, necessity, or worship (this is the profession of our Church) but in doctrine, worship and ministry for the substance thereof, there is a sweet agreement. And the differences, that are betwixt them and us in other matters, 
Calv. instit. l. 4. c. 18 Sect. 32. Confess. Helu. c. 27 Angl. Conf. art. 34 Aug. Conf. art. 7. Bohem. Conf. art. 15. Calv Ep. col. 170. ●p. col. 478  they have so learned to tolerate, as neither to condemn their own practice, nor to dischurch us: and the like Christian moderation, they receive from us bacl again. The Churches of Christ have not learned to cure every scratch of a pin, with a knife or lance: This art of curing they leave to you, who was never admitted into the society of discreet Physicians among them or us. Thirdly consider how uncertain their ways are who walk in darkness. Sometimes the Scribes and Pharisees were to be heard, because they were lawfully called: Sometimes they might not be heard: sometime it is a case not easily determined: and sometimes in the Churches now under the New Testament false Prophets are not to be suffered; as if the passages of Scripture forbidding to hear false Prophets, must be restrained to the times of the Golpell. Such staggerings and gross delusions in others, 
CAN. Necess. of Separ. p. 39 48. etc. Bilson Christ. Subject. part. ●. page 406.  would have occasioned out-cries to raise the Country.  
As for that which you allege against ignorant, idle, profane Ministers, it is not to the purpose, for that respects not the office itself, but the men in the office, who may enter unlawfully, and continue in the execution of their office, 
The Church of Corinth had then, as all other Churches now have (or should have) both praying & preaching annexed and adjoined to the ministration of the Lords Supper. Both these yet are and ever were the means which God ordained to prepare us to be fit guests for that Table. Bishop jewel his Sermon on Iosh. 6.1, 2, 3. This care must show itself in removing blind watchmen, which have no knowledge, who are but dumb dogs, that cannot bark, etc. Nonresidence and absence from their cure is a fault that would be amended. CAN. Necess. of Separ. page 44. 45. Admonit. 1. page 15. 16. Sold. Barw. in the shepherds of the Lords flock. Though they be never so able to instruct, and therefore worthy to have rooms in the Church, yet if they have not a desire to do good, etc. CAN. Necess. of Separ. page 216. Another fault no less hurtful to the Church of God is the suffering of pluralities, when one taketh the profit of two or more Benefices, etc.  when the Ministry itself for substance, and that which is done by Ministers unlawfully executing their place, is not to be condemned as a nullity. It is one thing to justify an ignorant or idle ministry, another to make use of that which he doth to our edification according to the Ordinance of God. They are not approved of God in their ministration, but what they do administer is effectual, and God approveth that his people, when they cannot remove them, should make use of their Ministry. This the Non-conformists hold agreeable to their own principles, as hath been showed at large.  
Parsons, Vicars, Stipendaries, Parish Priests, Chapleines are but various Titles given to the same kind of Ministry in divers persons, which is Evangelicall, instituted of Christ, and to be exercised and maintained in the Church, until the coming of Christ to judgement. You affirm with great confidence, that the Non-conformists condemn both their names and offices as wholly from that Roman Antichrist. These be your words. If you will know (say the Non-conformists) whence all these came, we can easily answer you, that they came from the Pope, as out of the Trojan horses belly, to the destruction of God's kingdom. It is certain that their name and office is wholly from that Roman Antichrist, never instituted either by Christ or his Apostles. For the Church of God never knew them, neither doth any reformed Church in the world know them. These are clouds without rain, trees without fruit, painted Sepulchers full of dead bones, fatted in all abundance of iniquity, such as seek not the Lord jesus, but their own bellies. Again touching their Parsons. Vicars, Stipendaries Chapleines, etc. we have proved from their writings, that these names and offices came wholly from the Devil and Antichrist: and therefore his pleading for Baal is altogether here unuseful, as to say, All is one kind of Ministry, and in this respect they are Parsons, and in that respect Vicars, etc. For as much may a Papist say, of their Parsons, Vicars, etc. 
We strive not with you for names and words, but about the substance of the Office and Ministry. Non enim in nominibus, sed in rebus, sita est nostra religio, ut rectè monet Gregorius Theologus in Orat. quam habuit coram 150. Episcopis, in Concil. secundo Constantino. anno. 382. Nihil apud me distat in verbo, quod non distat in sensu. Ambr. come. in Luc. lib. 2. Every godly and learned Minister & Pastor of the Church, hath more interest & right in respect of his office etc. for as much as he hath an ordinary calling of God and function appointed in Scriptures which he exerciseth T. C. rep.. 1. pag. 21. It is observed by the Learned that this hath been not the least of Satan's sleights in conveying Popery from step to step and point to point, to keep the speech, & change the sense of the Learned and Ancient Fathers: As the Papists deal with the Fathers, so do you with the Nonconformists.  and as true too, If therefore he would have justified those men, he should first have manifested that his Brethren have notoriously slandered their ministry, and so have quite taken away their reasons better, by showing better, etc. But we have learned to try before we trust. To contend about the bare names and Titles of Parson, is vain and frivolous; but if we speak of their office and ministry as it is exercised by the godly, learned and painful Ministers in the Church of England, for the substance thereof, it is instituted of Christ, acknowledged by all true Churches in the world, ever since the first plantation of the Christian Church, known by all reformed Churches, at this day blessed of God abundantly, and so maintained by the Non-conformists. Against the Name (it may be) some have taken exception, and against the pride, idleness, covetousness, etc. of some much hath been written, but that the office itself of Parson or Vicar, as they preach the Gospel of jesus Christ, or administer the Sacraments according to the Institution, and watch over the flock of Christ committed to their charge, that this office (I say) for substance should be condemned, as Antichristian by the Non-conformists, is notoriously false, and the contrary is apparently known unto yourself. For many of them have publicly maintained the truth of their ministry in writing, others have publicly professed, they acknowledge the Church and ministry to be true and of God, and divers have exercised the functions, of Vicars and Parsons in our Assemblies. And whether it be probable that so many seeking for reformation would publicly condemn that office, as altogether Antichristian, which they exercised in the Church, let your Conscience judge. In that which you allege out of the admonition to this purpose, you grossly play the juggler. For it speaks not of the office of Parsons and Vicars at all, much less of them all. Their words (let them be compared with that which you writ in their name) are these; we should be too long to tell your honours of Cathed. Churches, the Dens aforesaid of all loutering lubbers, where, M. Deane, M Vice-Deane, M. Canons or Prebendaries the greater, Mr. Petty Canons, or Canons the lesser, Mr. Chancellor of the Church, M. Treasurer otherwise called judas the Pursebearer, the chief chanter, Singing men, special favourers of Religion, Squealing Choristers, Organ-Players, Gospelers, Pistelers, Pensioners, Readers, Vergerers, etc. live in great, idleness, and have their abiding. If you would know whence all these came, we can easily answer you, that they came from the Pope, as out of the Trojan horses belly, to the destruction of God's kingdom. The Church of God never knew them, neither doth any reformed Church in the world, know them. And birds of the same feather are covetous Patrons of Benefices, Parsons, Vicars, Readers, Parish Priests, Stipendaries, and riding Chapleins, that under the authority of their Masters, spoil their flock, of the food of their souls: such seek not the Lord jesus, but their own bellies, clouds they are without rain, trees without fruit, painted Sepulchers full of dead bones, fatted in all abundance of iniquity, and lean Locusts in all feeling, knowledge, and sincerity. 
Hier. in Sy●●. Ruffin, Perversi homines ad assenti●nem dogmatum suorum, sub virorum Sanctorum nomine interseruerunt ea, quae illi nunquam scripserunt. Virg. An. l. 2. Accipe nunc Danaum insidias, & crimine ab uno disce omnes. CAN. Necess. of repar. p. 48. 49. 〈◊〉  Can any Legerdemain be more palpable, than to apply these words to the office of Parsons, and Vicars, and their Ministry; who painfully, diligently and profitably, spend and have spent their time and strength, in the service of the Lord jesus Christ, and of his Church? If you will so grossly mistake or pervert their writings, how shall we believe you upon your word, when you report that this or that you have heard or seen?  
That a man from those principles may infer a lawful separation from all spiritual communion, in the ministry of our English Churches, you think every one (if he understand what a principle is) will freely grant. And for my part I think, every man that understands what the Non-conformists principles are, or what a true conclusion rightly deduced from sound or true principles is, will freely grant, that your separation from the ministry of the Church of England in the Ordinances, of worship, is rash, groundless, and sinful, contrary to right reason, the Non conformists principles, and the holy Scriptures. And so I commend the worth or weakness of what I have written to your consideration, entreating if you can, to bring gentle words and weight of matter, as best beseemeth a good cause.     

CHAP. II.  
THat God must be worshipped according to his own will and commandment, 

Bilson Christ. subject. part. 3. p. 302. It is only God's office to appoint, how he will be served.  
Tertul. de praescrip. advers. haeret. Nobis nihil licet de nostro arbitrio indulgere, sed nec eligere quod aliquis de arbitrio suo induxerit. Apostolos Domini habemus Authores, qui nec ipsi quidquam de suo arbitrio quod inducerunt, elegerunt, sed acceptum à Christo, etc. Can. stay. sec. 3 p. 16 Can. Neces: of Separate. p. 72, 73, 74; 75, 76, 77.   and that nothing must go under the name of worship, which he hath not commanded, or instituted in his Word, is a truth confessed and maintained by the Church of England, Conformists and Non-conformists. So that it is altogether needless to spend many words and quote many Authors to prove that which is commonly received, if it be not a wrong to mention that as a principle of the Non-conformists, which is the doctrine of the Church, with one consent professed of all the members of the society: Else where you writ (but your speech is over-lavish as most commonly it is) that all sorts and sects of Writers acknowledge this for a truth, that to worship God in any other way or manner, than he hath in his Word prescribed, is unlawful: And therefore this pains here taken might well have been spared; but the plenty herein may serve to hid your poverty in that which is to be proved.  
Your Reason to prove the necessity of separation from the Non-conformists Principles, is thus laid down.  
The Lord in Scripture hath laid it as a strait charge upon all the faithful, to separate themselves from Idolaters, Sect. 1 
Can. Neces. of Separate. cap. 2. sec. 3. pag. 83, 84.  and to be as unlike to them as may be, specially in their religious observations and ceremonies. The second Commandment proves this effectually, for there is absolutely forbidden all participation in any feigned service, whether it be to the true God or any other. When Jeroboam had set up a false worship, we read, 
Hosea 4.14, 15. Amos 5.5.  that the good Prophets of that time and after, called the godly Israelites away from it, and bid them in plain terms not to join therewith, but on the contrary to keep God's Commandentents, and statutes appointed for his service, without adding any thing to them, or taking any thing from them. And this they must do, although the King had confirmed his new Religion, by Act of Parliament, or Council, and therefore no doubt would persecute most grievously all the refusers thereof, etc.  
Thus you go on in four leaves or thereabouts to confirm your proposition, Answer. 
Ibid. pag. 84. to 92.  and yet it may be questioned, whether you do confirm or explain every particular contained therein. For if it be demanded what it is to be as unlike to Idolaters as much as may be, and how that is proved to be necessary, either by the commandment of God, or practice of the godly, without some fit or due limitation, which is not added, I suppose you will be to seek, much less can it be concluded out of this discourse. But let us hear your Assumption.  
But the worship of the English-Church-Service-Booke hath no warrant by God's word, 
Can. Neces. p. 85. bid. pag. 91.  but it is a devised, false, and idolatrous worship. If we take a strict view of that ministry, worship, and government, which they left at Dan and Bethel, it will appear evidently, that the same was not more false idolatrous and unlawful, 
Id. pag. 85.  than the present ministry, worship and government of the English Assemblies, is by the Non-conformists affirmed to be. And because none may think, that I speak more than can be proved, I will therefore here lay down an apology or pretext, which an idolatrous Israelite might frame in the defence of the King's Religion, 
Freshsute. lib. 2. pag. 80.  taken out of their own writings: And if Dr Aims phrase be tolerable, I will pawn my head, that there is never a Nonconformist this day in the world (let him keep to their grounds) that is able to give more pretty reasons, 
Course of conform. pag. 161.  and colourable shows, to justify the Religion of the Church of England.  
That all worship, Answer. which hath not warrant from God's word, is unlawful; 
Socrates was wont to say, Every God was to be honoured as he himself had given in commandment, August. de Conf. Evang. lib. 1. cap. 18. Wherefore as Michah and jeroboam grievously offended; so whosoever brings into God's service any thing of his own device, he sinneth deadly. But Images, Crosses, and Crucifixes are men's devices, whereby they flatter themselves in pleasing God: therefore they ought to be abhorred. Calf. against Marshal. Preface to the reader. Bellarm. lib. 3. the justifis c. 8. Non potest aliquid certum esse certitudine fidei, nisi aut immediate contineatur in verbo Dei, aut ex verbo Dei per evidentem consequentiam deducatur. Park. de pol. Eccl. l. 1. c. 1.4. Separabant se sacerdotes et Levitae, qui Deum timebant. 2 Chro. 11.14. Atqui haec separa●●o ab Israelitis idolatris erar, qu● legemcult umque Dei per idola jeroboam fundamentaliter sustulerunt. Aug. de unit. eccls. c. 16. Let the Donatists, if they can show their Church, not in rumours, and speeches of the men of Africa, nor in the counsels of their Bishops, nor in the discourses of any writer whatsoever, nor in the signs and miracles that may be forged; but in the prescript of the Law, in the predictions of the Prophets, in the verses of the Psalms, in the voices of the Shepherd himself, etc.  that all devised, false, and idolatrous worship is to be abhorred, is confessed and professed by Conformists and Nonconformists. It is a constant received position, That nothing aught to be tolerated in the Church as necessary unto salvation, or as an article of faith, except it be expressly contained in the word of God, or manifestly to be gathered therefrom: and that all ceremonies are to be rejected, wherein there is placed opinion of merit, worship, or necessity to salvation. But that the worship tendered to God in the English Congregations, is devised, false, idolatrous, that the Nonconformists never said, nor thought; and whosoever shall rashly affirm it, he shall never be able to make proof thereof, by the word of God. If any rite prescribed in the book of Common-prayer be worship, in the use thereof, the word being taken in a large signification, that is not so in the intention and profession of the Church, nor apprehended to be so in them that conform unto it, neither doth it defile the worship of God, to them that join in the ordinances of grace, notwithstanding the corruption which in their judgement is annexed to it, and practised by some. For notwithstanding such corruption, or abuse, the worship itself is that which God hath prescribed, approved, blessed to them that seek his face aright, and serve him unfeignedly; whereat he requireth our presence, and wherein he hath promised to sup with us, and we with him.  
That the Non-conformists should affirm the worship of God, or ministry in the English Assemblies, to be as false, idolatrous, and unlawful, as was the worship of Jeroboam at Dan and Bethel, is a most lewd and impudent slander; which the sworn shavelings of Antichrist, whose profession is to lie and slander for the catholic cause, would blush to vent. You know it is contrary to their judgement, practice, procession, and protestations many times renewed. Whether the phrase be tolerable or no, if you will be prodigal to pawn your head in this case, take heed lest you lose it, not in God's cause, but in your own. And if you shall be desperate herein, your forwardness will move no wise man; for Religion is to be learned from the truth of God, and not from the high adventures of inconsiderate men. The Non-conformists can prove the Religion and worship of the Church of England to be of God, not by petty reasons and colourable shows (which they leave to them that maintain a bad cause) but by pregnant evidence from the word of truth; not by similitudes, allegories, and forced interpretations of Scripture (as you dispute against it) but by plain texts of Scripture, and sound reason deduced therefrom, against which the gates of hell shall never prevail.  
The Author of that Book, 
Bilson Christ. subject. part. 4. p. 349. This is the doubt betwixt us, whether we should content ourselves with such means as he hath devised for us, and commended unto us; thereby daily to renew the memory of our Redemption; or else invent others of our own heads, fit perhaps to provoke us to a natural and humane affection, but not fit to instruct ourfaith, etc. He knowing that images though they did entertain the eyes with some delight, yet might they snare the souls of many simple & silly persons, and preferring the least seed of sound faith, beholding & adoring him in spirit & truth, before all the dumb shows and Imagery that mans wit could furnish to win the eye. Can. Neces. of Separate. c. 2. p. 78, 79. & 254. according to a prescript form culled out of the blasphemous Mass-book. & 238. That which was taken out of the vile Mass-book, etc. Sold. ●a●w. T. C. repl. 1. pag. 130. Abridg. p. 89. Adm. 1. p. 9 & 2. Adm. p. 41. Fall of Babyl. ●9. Altar Damasc. pag. 612, 613. Zion's plea. 29. Perth Assemb. 64. Zion's plea. 30. pag. 40. 〈…〉  entitled, The course of Conformity, showeth that the Israelites might in general pretend for Jeroboams calves the same excuses that were made in defence of some corruptions thrust upon the Church of Scotland; but the corruptions he doth not make to be like, nor the pretences to be of equal validity, nor the state of the Church where such corruptions are tolerated, to be the same with the state of the Israelites who worshipped the Calves. Abuses that agree in the general nature of abuse may be coloured, with the same pretences, when they be not of the same weight, quality, or degree; the one may be small, the other heinous. The same distinction may be brought to countenance the vilest heresy, and a petty error, if I may so speak. Heresy and Idolatry are both talkative, and who doubts but corrupt wits can say much in defence of both; shall we thence conclude, that error or heresy are both one; every abuse is gross idolatry. The Author, you quote, was not so unadvised: His drift was only to show the vanity of such excuses, and not to match the things pleaded for with Jeroboams Idolatry, as hath been showed before. But let us see whether you can allege any colourable show, or petty reason, to prove our worship to be false and idolatrous.  
The whole form of the Church-service is borrowed from the Papists, pieced and patched together without reason or order of edification: yea not only is the form of it, taken from the Church of Antichrist, but surely the matter also: For none can deny but it was culled and picked out of that popish dunghill, the portius and vile Mass-book, full of all abominations. From three Romish Channels, I say, was it raked together, namely, the breviary, out of which the common prayers are taken; out of the Ritual or book of Rites, the administration of the Sacraments, Burial, Matrimony, Visitation of the sick are taken; and out of the Mass-book, are the Consecration of the Lords Supper, Collects, Gospels, and Epistles. And for this cause it is, that the Papists like so well of the English Mass, (for so King James used to call it) and makes them say, Surely the Romish is the true and right Religion. Else the Heretics in England would never have received so much of it. For some have avouched it to my face (saith the Author of the Curtain of Church-power) that the service there is nothing to the Mass in the English; others that it wants nothing but the Pope's consecration. These things thus retrived, it was also thought that popish Kings and Princes would be the less offended; what marvel, seeing the Jesuits themselves are so well pleased with the ceremonies and service, that I heard one of them (God is my witness herein) make it his hope, that the maintenance of them against the Puritans, would make England the sooner return to Rome in the rest. 
Qu●vadis. sec. 4.  Mine eyes and ears (saith Bishop Hall) can witness with what approof and applause divers of the catholic royal (as they are termed) entertained the new translated Liturgies of our Church. Which is the less wonder, seeing Pope Pius the fourth sending Vicentio Parpatia, 
Cambd. An. 1560.  Abbot of Saint Saviour's to Queen Elizabeth, offered to confirm the English Liturgy by his Authority, if she would yield to him in some other things. Indeed it pleased them so well, 
Fresh. suit. l. 1, 203.  that for the first eleven years of Queen Elizabeth, Papists came to the English Church and service, as the Lord Cook showeth. 
L. Cook de jure Regis Eccles. f. 34. Zion's plea. 49.91.  Others of them affirm the same, namely, their Church-service pleaseth marvellous well the Romish Beast, and his ungodly followers. Witness the Pacification of the Devonshire-Papists in the time of King Edward the sixth, when as they understood it was no other but the very Mass-book put into English. Witness also the assertion of Dr Carrier, a dangerous seducing Papist; The common-prayer-book (saith he) and the Catechism contained in it, hold no point of doctrine expressly contrary to Antiquity (that is, 
Consider. pag. 45. sect. 8, 9  as he explaineth himself) the Romish-service, only hath not enough in it: And for the doctrine of predestination, Sacraments, grace, freewill, and sin, etc. The new Catechisms and Sermons of the Puritan-preachers, run wholly against the common-prayer, and Catechism therein contained, etc. 
Motiv. Preface to the Answ.  And thereupon he comforteth himself upon the hope of the supply of the rest. To this effect speaketh Bristol and Harding. If these things be right, why not the rest? It shall not be amiss to mark one occurrence in Queen Elizabeth's time, who being interdicted by the Pope's Bull, Secretary Walsingham tried a trick of State-policy, to reverse the same. He caused two of the Pope's Intelligencers, at the Pope's appointment, to be brought (as it were) in secret into England, to whom he appointed a guide (being a State Intelligencer) who should show them in Canterbury and London service solemnly sung and said, with all their pomp and procession. Which order the popish Intelligencers seeing, and so much admiring, they wondered that their Master would be so unadvised, as to interdict a Prince or State, whose service and ceremonies so symbolised with his own: So returning it the Pope, they shown him his oversight, affirming that they saw no service, ceremonies, or Church-order's in England, but they might have very well been performed in Rome: whereupon the Bull was presently called in.  
That which you allege against the English-Service-booke in particular, Answer. you intent against all set-formes of prayer, or stinted Liturgies whatsoever: For the use of them is a false devised, idolatrous, antichristian worship in your account. Thus you know your Brethren of the Separation have disallowed all set and stinted forms, 
Johnson, Ainsworth, Robinson, Greenewood, etc.  as humane inventions, forbidden in the second Commandment, Images, Will-worship, Idol-prayers, False-worship Lip-labour, etc. And you yourself insist upon this principle of the Nonconformists, as the cause of Separation from the Church of England, that all forms of worship not prescribed of God, are will-worship; which if it maketh against one, holdeth against all prescribed Liturgies. 
Can. Neces. of Separate. pag. 114. Id. pag. 115.  Again, you confess that every Church is not to be forsaken or left, which hath something in it, by participation, idolatrous: And therefore our Service is not devised worship, because it is taken out of the Mass-book, as you allege; but simply, because it is devised; whencesoever it had its original, if it be devised worship. First therefore we must consider the matter in general, 
Oyls●hil. speaking of Images brought into the Church, saith, We might justly condemn the whole faithless, & fond invention. For it was but a will-worship, a naughty service, having no ground of the Word of God, and only spring of error. Calf. Preface to the Reader testifieth. Bilson Christ, subject. part. 2. p. 297. That Princes may prescribe what faith they list, what service of God they please, what form of administration of the Sacraments they think best, is no part of our thought, or point of our doctrine: & yet that Princes may by their laws prescribe the right faith to be preached, the right service of God in spirit and truth to be used, etc. T. C. repl.. 1. pag. 8. Park. of the Cross. par. 1. ca 4. sect. 7. pag. 177. A. W. ans. to late popish Artic. p. 73.  and then try what is alleged against our book of Common-prayer.  
These words, Forms of worship, may be taken two ways. First, to note the substantial parts, or means of worship; and in this sense it is most true, That all forms of worship not prescribed of God, are unlawful and false worship, because devised by men.  
Secondly, To note a bare order, method, or phrase, wherein divine Service is performed: And in this sense, the Nonconformists never said, That all forms of worship not prescribed are false, or devised worship. For they know, that no form is determined and prescribed of God precisely in all parts of his worship, and where none is set apart by his Majesty, it is a breach of his Commandment, and devised worship, to place an opinion of worship in the simple order or phrase of speech used in prayer, or administration of holy things.  
The Nonconformists condemn not a Liturgy, or stinted form of prayer, but desire that all things therein might be ordered as doth tend most to edification. Whatsoever exceptions they have taken against our Book of Common-prayer, they never disliked the use of it, so far as they judged it sound and good. They do not condemn it wholly, but find fault with it, as in some points disagreeing with the word of God. What hath been their seeking from time to time? a razing of the Communion Book! No; but a purging and filing of it, after the pattern of that care, which former examples set us. The Book of Common-prayer, they condemn not as a wicked and ungodly Book, much less the Service as false, devised, and idolatrous; but they have and do use the book, and profess their readiness so to do, only they desire to be excused in some things, which they judge to be amiss.  
In the admonition presented to the Parliament An. 1570. thus they profess. We have at all ●imes born with that which we have could not amend in this Book, and have used the same in our Ministry so fare forth as we might, reverencing those times, and those persons, in which, and by whom, it was first authorised.  
Though therefore they writ, 
Admonit. 1. pag. 9 Park. of the Cross. part. 1. ca 3. sect. 6. pag. 135.  that it was taken out of that Popish dunghill, the portius, and vile Mass-book, that the Papists suck no little advantage out of our Commumon-Booke, which they term an English translation out of the Mass-book, and out of the difficulty, whereby it came in, 
Parsons of the 3. conversions of England. pag. 2.  many Protestants themselves, adjudging that the stable of popish superstition was not throughly purged out of it; that Bristol draws the likeness of our Service-booke to the countenancing of their Mass-book; 
Brist. motiv. 34. Rhem. in john 20. sect. 5.  And the Rhemists the absolution of the sick prescribed in our Communion-booke, to an approbation of their absolution, Auricular confession, and Sacrament of penance: Howsoever they disallow the service, as it is practised in visitations, and enjoined in the late Canons, which denieth liberty not only to omit a ceremony, but also to add, altar, 
Park. of the Cross. par. 2. ca 5. sect. 11. pag. 19  or omit any one word of the whole Liturgy, when we affirm the words of the Lords prayer, and the form in Baptism and the Supper may be altered, without fault. Though in these things they take exception against the Book, and the manner of urging it, yet they never disliked the use of it altogether, much less condemned it as a false, devised, and idolatrous worship. Their profession and practice from time to time, both before and since the Controversies were moved about the Book, speak plainly in this matter. 
Can. Neces. of Separate. pag. 125.  Judge then yourself, whether it be not a notorious calumny in you to write, That our stinted service, devised by the Bishop, and translated from the Mass, is affirmed by our own Writers, to be a false and forged worship, and that it is even so, I appeal to many of your consciences: For why do you loath to use the same in your Families, but because you know it is not the incense made by fire from the Altar of the Lord. Is it a small thing thus to slander and reproach the servants of Christ, contrary to their writings, professions, and practices, and your own Conscience? And what a vain surmise is this, that because they forbear to use it in their houses, therefore in conscience they know it to be strange incense? As if many things might not be forborn, which in themselves are lawful? In reading the Scriptures a Christian may use one translation, when he doth not condemn others as abomination. I may presume, in private you make not use of the Lords prayer, and so of some others; and yet you would not, that another should fit in your conscience and judge, that you know it is not the incense made by fire from the Altar of the Lord? Or if you be so presumptuous, sober and well advised men will admit no such conclusions. But here you must remember again, that no method, order, or phrase of speech in prayer, left undetermined of God, can truly be called or esteemed the incense made by fire. Prayer itself, and not the phrase of speech, whether devised by another or by ourselves, is resembled thereby.  
But the whole form (you say) of the English-Church-service-Book, is borrowed out of the Masse-Book, picked and culled out of the Dunghill, as the Nonconformists write. You add, That not only the form, but the matter also was taken out of the Mass-book.  
It is true, the Nonconformists say, it was in great part picked and culled out of the Mass-book; but it followeth not thence, that either it is, or was esteemed by them a devised or false worship; for many things contained in the Mass-book itself, are good and holy. A Pearl may be found upon a Dunghill; we cannot more credit the man of sin, than to say, that every thing in the Mass-book is devilish and Antichristian. For than it should be Antichristian to pray unto God, in the mediation of Jesus Christ, to read the Scriptures, to profess many fundamental divine truths necessary to salvation: If any have misliked the Book, because it hath too much likelihood to the Mass-book; that hath not been the judgement of the Nonconformists alone, others have said and written as much, who never yet condemned the use of the Book, or all things therein contained. Popery is a scab or leprosy which cleaveth unto the Church: It standeth mostly, in erroneous, faulty, gross and abominable superstructions upon the true foundation, whereby they poison or overthrow the foundation itself. But take away the superstructions, and the foundation remaineth: remove the leprosy, and the man is sound. Many supernatural divine truths of God are mixed in the Popish Synagogue; as pure gold with much dross or earth, which the refiner is to purge and separate, but not to cast away. Our service was picked and culled out of the Mass-book, you say; and so it might, and yet be free from 〈…〉 and tincture, from all show and appearance of evil; though the Mass-book itself was fraught with all manner of abominations. For if Antichrist fit in the Temple of God, and profess himself the servant of Jesus Christ, of necessity, some treasures, riches and jewels of the Church must be gathered into his den, which being collected, purged, and refined, might serve to adorn the chaste spouse of Christ. Neither in so doing doth the Church honour Antichrist, but challenge her own right. If she retain aught that belongeth to Antichrist, that is her stain and blemish: but the recovery of that, which Christ, the King and Bridegroom of his Church hath given, as her wealth or ornament, must not be imputed a fault. Christ's Religion is not so needy or unperfect of itself, so needy and beggarly, that it must borrow Embring days of the Heathen, Altars of the Pope, 
William Salisbur. in his Battery of the Popes Batter. An. 1550.  or Vestments of the Jews: But as the Church is plentifully furnished by Christ, and needeth supply from none other; so it is her part to retain what is freely and graciously vouchsafed of him.  
If it be wholly taken out of the Mass-book, 

Bilson. Christ. Subject. part. 4. p. 490. Eating and drinking are not essential parts of the Sacrament, but of the Supper they are, or of the Lords institution. For Christ's institution containeth as well the use as the matter or form that must be used. A Supper is not only the meat provided, but also the act of eating that which is provided: And so the Lords institution implieth the use and action, as well as the word and elements.  
Bilson. Christ. subject. part. 4. p. 356. To the Papists objecting that as Magistrates & Parents have part of God's external honour, because they present his person in judging and blessing; so many Images have part of his external, though not of his internal honour: Answer is truly returned, It is not in your hands to make allowance of God's honour to whom you list: and again, God himself hath made a plain prohibition in this case, that Images shall have no part of his external honour. The words are as clear as day light; Thou shalt not bow down to them.  
Tho: Beacon, Catech, in his works in fol. printed at London, Ann. 1562. f. 484. Fox in Osor. lib. 3. pag. 27. The Book of Common-prayer, before the Communion. Cypr. Ep. 63. ad Caecisi●m. Justin. Martyr. in Apol. 2 Iren. lib. 4. cap. 34 & lib. 5. cap. 4. Gratian. Decret. part. 3. the Conse●r. didst. 2. cap. 10.12, 18.36. Durand, rational, divin. offic. lib. 4. cap. 5●.   how comes it to have those things, which are so directly contrary to the Mass, that both cannot possibly stand together. In our book of Common-prayer, we pray to God only in the mediation of Jesus Christ, and in a known language: We profess that Christ by one oblation of himself once for all, hath made a full, perfect, and sufficient satisfaction for the sins of the whole world: that he hath commanded a perpetual remembrance of his death and passion in that his ordinance of the Supper: and that the Sacrament is to be administered in both kinds; the Minister and the people communicating together: were these things taken out of the Mass-book? The Church of Rome joineth the two first Commandments in one, or taketh away the second, thereby to cloak their Idolatry in the worshipping of Images: But the common-prayer-book of the Church of England divideth them into two, therein following (two of the Fathers at most excepted) all Antiquity, and setteth down the words of the second Commandment at large. The Church of Rome teacheth, that in the Sacrament of the Eucharist, the body and blood of Christ is received and eaten carnally; that as much is received in one kind, as in both, and that in the Mass Christ is offered 〈…〉 a propitiatory unblouddy Sacrifice, for the sins of 〈◊〉 and dead: But the common-prayer-book of the Church of England, in the form of administering that Sacrament, teacheth expressly; That spiritually by faith we feed on him in our. hearts, eating and drinking in remembrance that Christ died and shed his blood for us. In the Mass the Priest receiveth alone, the people standing by, gazing on: but the Minister and people are appointed with us to communicate together; according to the institution of Christ, and practice of the primitive Church. We make the communion of the Eucharist properly a Sacrament: They, a Sacrament and a Sacrifice propitiatory: They celebrate at an Altar: we at a Table; according to the example of our Saviour Christ, his Apostles, and the primitive Church in the purest times. We pray for the living; They for the living and dead. And if these be not points directly and expressly contrary to the Roman service, Rome is much departed from herself.  
Carrier's pretence in that particular is a mere juggling trick, that he might insinuate, a change of Religion, might be made among us without any great alteration, which is as likely as the light should be turned into darkness and not espied. If many points of Popery be not condemned expressly in the Catechism, or Service-booke (which are for the instruction of the simple in the grounds of Religion, and the administration of the holy things of God, and not to show what is condemned in Religion) yet so many points are there taught directly contrary to the foundation of Popery that it is not possible Popery should stand, if they take place. And whereas Antichristianisme standeth in ungodly superstructions and additions to the truth and worship of God; both matter and object, if the Catechism and Service-booke have not enough in them in his sense, of necessity they contradict the whole bulk of Popery, which consisteth in abominable superfluities, or impious inventions of their own.  
It is moon proper to say, the Mass was added to our common-prayer, than that our common-prayer was taken out of the Mass-book: For most things in our common-prayer, were to be found in the Liturgies of the Church, long before the Mass, whereof we speak, was heard of in the world. And the Mass was patched up by degrees, and added to the Liturgy of the Church, now one piece, than another; so that the ancient truths and holy Liturgies were at last stained with the Idol of the Mass, 
Bishop Jewel. Ser. on Josh. 6.1, 2, 3. The things that may be reserved (viz. in the destruction of Hiericho) must not be dust, or chaffe, or hay, or stubble: But gold, silver, iron and brass: I mean, they may not be things meet to furnish & maintain superstition, but such things as be strong, and may serve either directly to serve God, or else for comeliness and good order.  which was sacrilegiously thrust into them. But the prayers and truths of God taught in that Book, pertained to the Church, as her prerogative: the Mass and the abominations thereof belonged into the man of sin. And if a true man may challenge his goods, which the thief hath drawn into his den; the Church of God may lawfully make claim unto those holy things, which Antichrist hath unjustly usurped: That answer which is returned to the accusation, makes against them that sue for discipline, viz. That a great part of their discipline is borrowed from the Anabaptists, will serve as a buckler in this case: And it is this; which (I doubt not) you will approve: Whatsoever is proper either to the heresy of Papists and Anabaptists, Donatists, or Puritans, that we utterly condemn to the pit of hell: But if amongst the filth of their heresies, there may be found any good thing (as it were a grain of good corn in a great deal of Darnell) that we willingly receive, not as theirs, but as the Jews did the holy Ark from the Philistines, 
T. C. repl.. 2. par. 1. Epistle to the Chh of England.  whereof they were unjust owners. For herein that is true, that is said; The sheep must not lay down her fell, because she seethe the Wolf sometimes clothed with it. August. lib. 2. Serm. de Monte: yea, it may come to pass, that the Synagogue of Satan may have some one thing at one time with more convenience, than the true and catholic Church of Christ: 
Bishop Jewel. Ser. in josh. 6.1.2.3. In religion no part is to be called little. A hair is but little, yet it hath a shadow.  If our Book please the Papists, it is but in some things, wherein in reverence to Antiquity, we come too nigh them in some rites and ceremonies; but with the substance of the ministration itself they cannot be pleased, unless they be displeased with their own service, and will renounce their own Religion.  
If Pope Pius the fourth, promised to Queen Elizabeth, that if she would reconcile herself to the Church of Rome, 

Pius the fourth in his Bull sent forth against Queen Elizabeth, saith, Impiorun numerus tantum potentiâ invaluit, & nullus jam in orbe locus relictus fit, quem illi pessimis doctrinis corrumpere non tentarint.  
And then speaking of Q. Elizabeth. Missae sacrificium, preces, jejunia, cihorum delectum. caelibatum abolevit.   and acknowledge the supremacy of that Sea; he for his part would bind himself to declare the sentence pronounced against her Mother's marriage, to be unjust; to confirm by his authority the English Liturgy; and to permit the administration of the Sacrament here in England under both kinds. It is no new thing for the Pope to permit, and confirm both, for his own sinister end, what he doth not like or approve. It is no strange matter that the Pope should prefer his supremacy, before the purity of Religion. And by the words of the offer, the promise of the Pope seemeth not to be extended to the whole Liturgy, and service of the Church, as it is established by Law, but to some part alone; perhaps as it was practised before the sacrifice of the Mass was abolished. For why should it be added, that he would permit the administration of the Sacraments in both kinds, if he would confirm the whole English Liturgy, as it is now set forth. After Queen Elizabeth was proclaimed, a Proclamation came forth, that the Litany, the Epistles and Gospels, the Decalogue, the Creed, and the Lords-prayer should be read in all Churches in the English tongue: but it was the fourteenth of May after, being Whitsunday, before the sacrifice of the Mass was abolished, and the book of the uniformity of common-prayer, and the administration of the Sacraments publicly received, but whether the whole Service be meant or no, it is not much material; for he could not confirm it, but he must condemn himself.  
If the Papists for the first ten years, 

The seditious Bull of Pius Quintus, was set up & published by Felton, a rebellious traitor, in the twelfth year of Q. Elizabeth, which bare date the fifth of the Calends of March, Anno 1569.  
An. 13. The statute for subscription to the Doctrine of faith & Sacraments. An. 17. of Q. Elizabeth, there was great stir about Ceremonies and Discipline. Scripsit haec ille (saith Mr. Parker speaking of Dr. Whiteg.) ante natam separationem nostram (quae utinam, O utinam●nata nunquam fuisset!) Park. de polit. Eccl. l. 1. ca 14. sect. 1. Ann. 20. Began a flourishing time.  
An. 26. Universal subscription offered to the Ministers. After which followed grievous troubles, and then separation and falling from the Chh. August. lib. 1. contr. ep. Parm. c. 7. Nec quae dicebant probare potuerunt, et adhuc in sanctae Ecclesiae praecisione. Sacrilego furore ferebantur.  
Acts and Mon. vol. 3. title, The Cannon of the Mass.   resorted to our public Congregations and service, what can we think but that the hand of the Lord was with us for good, whiles we sought him unfaignedly, who caused our enemies at least lyingly to submit themselves. For in the first ten years of Queen Elizabeth there was sweet consent amongst brethren. The Pope durst not curse, the Gospel flourished and was glorified: the Papists durst not oppose themselves, and I think there was not a man that thought of separation. The pressing of subscription and conformity in the tenth year of Queen Elizabeth's Reign, was that which brought in all the troubles and contentions following. For after that Brethren wrote one against another, the Papists they fell bacl to their vomit, and in process of time, and not long after, some of fiery spirits advanced the Controversies to such an height, as they forsook their brethren, renounced their Mother, and drew themselves into voluntary separation, or schism. Which rents have been increased unto this day by the violent urging of subscription and conformity on the one fide, and the maintenance of that rash and sinful departure on the other. But these things convince not our service to be idolatrous.  
In few words, if our public worship be false and devised, it must be, either because it is a stinted or set Liturgy, devised by man, or for some special reason in respect of the former matter. If because it is a stinted or set Liturgy devised by man, than it is in vain to say, it is picked out of the Mass-book, or it pleaseth the Papists, or the Pope would have confirmed it: For this doth not make it devised worship, but it is devised worship, because it is a set or stinted form: And then the same sentence must pass against all set forms of Psalms, Blessings, Confessions, and Catechisms. Then the public worship of all the Churches of God throughout the whole world, for the space of this fourteen hundred years, if not more, was false, devised and idolatrous. If in respect of the peculiar matter or form, then either the bare form of words, order, and method, must be a part of worship, or the matter and substance of prayers and administration of the Sacraments, be forged and devised worship, neither of which was ever said by any Nonconformists, nor can be avouched with colour of truth. The form may be too like the Mass-book in some things, and the matter in every point not so pure as is to be desired; but the form is not worship, nor prayers and substance of administration devised worship.  
Such is the unholiness of this Idol-booke, 
Sect. 2. Neces. Can. of Separate. p. 81, 82. 2 Admon. pag. 56. Def. Admo. pag. 4. 1 Admonit. pag. 3. Zion's plea. 342. 318, 314. Mr. Gilby. pag. 29. 2 Admon. 57 1 Admon. 3.  as the Nonconformists generally have refused to subscribe unto it; affirming it to be such a piece of work at it is strange any will use it, there being in it most vile and unallowable things. And for this cause, they have besought the Peers of the Read●ie, that it might be utterly removed, and many reasons they have given in several Treatises, to prove their condemnation of it, just and lawful. First, because it is an infection's Liturgy, Romish-stuffe, a devised service, and in it are many, Religions ●ixed together, of Christ and Antichrist, of God and the Devil: besides, a book full of fancies, and a great many things contrary to God's Word; and prayers which are false, foolish, superstitious, and stark naught. Secondly, They cannot account it praying, as they use it commonly, but only reading or saying of prayers: 
2 Admon. 56.  even as a child that learneth to reads, if his lesson be a prayer he readeth a prayer, and doth not pray: even so it is commonly a saying, and reading prayers; and not praying. Thirdly, In all the order there is no edification, but confusion. Fourthly, We read not of any such Liturgy in the Christian Church in the days of the Apostles, 
1 Admon. pag. 14. Altar Dam. 178.  nor in many ages following, till blindness, ignorance and laziness occasioned a prescript form to be made for idle and dumb Priests. Fifthly, If this were not, many would make more profession of Love to preaching, and hearing God's Word, but by this means it is neglected and despised: for worldlings, usurers, drunkards, whore-mongers, and other earthly and profane people, away with nothing so well as English Mass; 
Against Br. 43. Curt. Ch. power. 42.45.  and why? but because it doth not sharply reprove them of their sins, nor disclose the secret of their hearts, but that they may continue in all kind of voluptuousness, and all other kind of wickedness; 
Learn. Discour. of Eccl. Govern. 68 Mart. Senior. p. 2. Pract. of Prin. addi.  and therefore rightly it is called their sterve-us-booke. Sixthly, God hath no where appointed that the Church should be tied to read the Book of Common-prayer for his worship: and therefore to do it is an high transgression before him, as great as the sin of Nadab and Abihu, and such are liable unto the like or greater punishment. Seventhly, If this were praying, and there were never an ill word nor sentence in all the prayers, yet to appoint it to be used, or to use it as Papists did their Matins and Evening-song, for a sea-service to God, though the words be good, the use is naught. The words of the first Chapter in John be good, but to be put into a Tablet of gold, 
2 Admon. pag. 55.  for a sovereign thing to be worn, the use is superstitious and naught; and so is the use of this Service.  
The Nonconformists never passed any condemnatory sentence against the Book of Common-prayer, Answer. as if it was false or devised worship, or against the use of a stinted form, as if to read it, was an high transgression before the Lord. Enough hath been said of their opinion in the former section, whereunto add this testimony of a man of another Nation, whom you are pleased to style a chief Nonconformist; 
Course of Confor. pag. 58.  The famous confession of faith well known and commended at home and abroad, the forms of prayer publicly used in the Congregations and families of Scotland, must be cast in a new mould.  
It is true, 
Beza Epist. 2. Gravissimè nimirum & in semetipsos & in fratres reliquos peccare qui naevis istis, aut etiam si mavis, corrupt●lis, et suas ex aliorum cos●entias non leviter perturbant, perinde ac si de Christianismo semel ablato ageretur, etc. Sed vitia a vitiis & quae condonanda sunt Christianae chari●ati ab iis quae prorsus sunt execranda, pradenter distinguenda esset censeo, idque tamen non ex carnis sed spiritus prudential.  the Nonconformists judge it unlawful to subscribe to that Book, that every thing contained therein is agreeable to the Scripture, but they condemn not the Book as an Idol or profane, nor the use of the Book in those things which are consonant to the truth. And of this their judgement there is evident ground: for we must not approve the least error (though in itself never so harmless) for truth, because that were to lie against the truth, and the God of truth needeth not my lie: But many things must be tolerated, when it is not in our power to amend them, which we cannot approve, otherwise we must hold communion with no Church or society in the world. And of this mark are the corruptions noted in the Communion-Booke, as hath been showed, and is evident by the particulars mentioned in passages which you allege.  
It is true likewise, they judge the Book in the form thereof to come too nigh the Papists (and so have others as well as they) and therefore have petitioned that it might be reform, that we might departed further from them, and come nearer to the reformed Churches. But herein they show what they judge most convenient, not condemning the Book for the substance thereof, as a forged worship: How much more convenient were it (saith T. C. 
T.C. repl.. 2. p. 109. ) that according to the manner of the reformed Churches: first the Minister with an humble and general confession of faults, should desire the assistance of the Lord for the fruitful handling and receiving of the Word of God; and then after we have heard the Lord speak unto us in his Word by his Minister, the Church should likewise speak unto the Lord, and present petitions and suits at once, etc. But how careful he was to prevent such ways and speeches as some professors of the Gospel being private men, might be emboldened to break forth upon such like exceptions, 
T.C. repl.. 1. p. 106.  is evident by that solemn request he makes unto them that profess the Gospel, in the name of God, that they abuse not his labour to other ends, than he bestowed it, and that they keep themselves in their callings, commit the matter by prayer unto the Lord, leaving to the Ministers of the word of God, and to the Magistrate that which pertaineth to them. The Protestants in France for substance of matter agree with the Nonconformists herein.  
The use of the whole Book for matter and manner in every thing without addition or alteration they do not approve, because they conceive some things faulty, others inconvenient, and some things defective: and strictly to be tied to words and syllables, is more than the Lord hath bound us unto in the administration of his holy Sacraments: But the substance of prayers in the Book they never disallowed, nor the use of the book, 
2 Admonit. pag. 56. ● Admonit. pag. 3.  as of a vile and filthy thing. Thus the Authors of the Admonition must be understood, when they say, The Book is such a piece of work, as it is strange we will use it. And now they are bound of necessity to a prescript order of service, and book of common-prayer, in which a great number of things contrary to God's Word are contained, etc. For they profess they have tolerated what they could not amend, 
1 Admonit. pag. 9 Park. of the Cross, part. 2. ca 9 sect. 4. We receive the Communion-book in what we may; and in omitting of the ceremonies, we do in equity keep the Law, because of the end which is to edify.  and used the Book in their Ministry, so fare as they might, even where they object as great corruptions against it, as in any other place.  
To read or repeat a prayer by heart, as if the bare rehearsal thereof in so many words and syllables, and none other, was a part of God's worship, is a transgression of his commandment, whether it be prescribed by others or devised of ourselves, or set down in Scripture. And the same may be said of the preaching of the Word, to place opinion of worship in the mere act done in such words or method, is will-worship or superstition. And we may say of both these exercises so used, 
2 Admonit. pag. 56.  as the Admonition doth, we cannot account them praying or preaching, but only reading or rehearsing or saying of a Sermon or prayer; even as a child that learneth a prayer or Sermon without book; if he rehearse what he hath learned, he rehearseth a prayer or Sermon, but he doth not pray or preach. But this is only the sin of him that useth not these prayers as he ought, it argueth not the prayers themselves to be evil, nor the use of a stinted form public or private in them that use it, or them that join to be disallowed. If it be not praying as it is used ignorantly for custom, without affection, it is praying when used aright with understanding, faith, feeling, and such like affections required in holy prayer.  
We read not of any such Liturgy in the Church of Christ in the days of the 
a 
Bilson Christ. subsect. part. 4. p. 407, 408.  
You may well perceive by the Apostles words, that they had neither Sermons nor Service prefixed, nor limited in his time: but when the chh. came together, the Elders and Ministers instructed the people and made their prayers by miraculous instinct or inspiration. This was all the church-service they had: to which they added the celebration of the Lords Supper, but without any settled or prefixed order of prayer, except it were the LORDS prayer, which they observed in all places, etc.   Apostles, and therefore no such Liturgy is any part of God's worship or substantial means thereof, to be used without addition or alteration of all or any Church, with opinion of necessity, holiness, or merit. But a set Liturgy might be in use in their times, though we read not of it, for the Apostles set not down a Catalogue of all and every particular order that was in the Church, but give us a perfect rule or canon of faith and manners in all things necessary to salvation, and all things unchangeably concerning the government of the Church unto the end of the world. And if there was not stinted Liturgy in their days, yet for order a set form of prayer to be used in public meeting is not unlawful, because it is of the number of things which God hath not determined in his Word, and 
b In the additions to the Admonition it is read thus; Remove Homilies, Articles, Injunctions, and that prescript order: wherein they declare that their meaning is not to disallow of prescript service of prayer, but of this form that we have, T. C. repl.. 1. pag. 105. Dr. Whiteg. answer to the Admonition, pag. 143.  where God hath not prescribed any form, there no form must be esteemed any part of worship, or condemned as simply unlawful. For as to call that holy which God hath not sanctified is superstition; so it is erroneous to condemn that as unholy or profane, which God alloweth or is consonant to his Word, though it be not precisely commanded. But that there was no such 
c Bilson ibid. pag. 409. Had they set an order for the service of the church, durst any man after have broken it? or any church refused it?  Liturgy in many ages following, till blindness, ignorance and laziness occasioned a prescript form to be made for idle and dumb Priests, is your addition to the Nonconformists reasons, and not their saying; and more than can be proved by good Authority. Of the precise antiquity of stinted Liturgies, it is hard to determine, but that they have been in use in the Christian Church for the space of this fourteen hundred years, if not above, no man can deny. It is more than probable that stinted forms were in use in the Greek Churches, before they came to the 
d The Bishops of Rome were 600. years and upward, patching & peicing the Mass, before they brought it to any settled form. Polydor. De Invent. rer. l. 5. c. 10.  Latin, at least many things were translated out of the Greek Liturgies into the Latin. But in the Latin Church we find a stinted form was in use in Cyprians time, in the administration of the Supper; not to insist upon that which some mention of the Lords prayer used in the celebration, from the very times of the Apostles. And some the chief promoters of a stinted Liturgy are renowned for their constant and unwearied pains, in preaching every day in the week, and sometimes twice. So that there is no probability; that the first occasion of a stinted 
e Rome had one form of service: Milan, another: France, a third; Greg. respon. ad 3. interrogat. Aug.  Liturgy was to help the ignorant, idle or dumb Priest, as you are pleased to phrase it. Where you borrowed this clause I know not, but I cannot find that ever the 
f See T. C. repl.. 1. pag. 106.  Nonconformists have thus written.  
In all the order there is (you say) no edification, but confusion; but the 
g 2 Admon. pag. 14.  Author of the Admonition saith, In all their order of service there is no edification, according to the Rule of the Apostle, but confusion: which seemeth to be referred rather to the 
h In the Church of Corinth, some of their Elders, strangers or inhabitants, to venditate themselves and the gifts they had of God, might sometimes bless or make their prayers at the Lords Table in a tongue not understood of the whole multitude. But this abuse doth not condemn the exercise itself.  abuse in too many places, than to the order itself prescribed in the book, as the instances following, of tossing the Psalms like tennise-balls in many places, and the people's standing, walking, talking, reading by themselves, do evidence. But the Book is not to be burdened with the faults of men, though too ordinary and common.  
The Nonconformists dislike that nothing else should be required of Ministers, but barely to read service: and the ordaining of ignorant Ministers they condemn, as contrary to the Word of God, and the means to nuzzle people in ignorance, security, lukewarmness and sin. But the use of a stinted Liturgy, or the reading of prayers in the public assembly, they never gainsaid as unlawful or inexpedient. We agree (saith 
i T. C. repl.. 1. p. 106.  T. C.) of a prescript form of prayer to be used in the Church. And in the other, no question many Conformists do consent with them. A prescript service therefore and an 
k Rutges. Metaph. institut. lib. 1. ca de Bono. Effectus per accidens secutus ex actione vel omissione alicujus, non imputatur ei; nisi intercedat obligatio, cavendi unum ne aliud sequatur. Hoc pacto unus bomo nonpotest just & recte intendere permissionem lapsus alterius.  ignorant or careless Ministry, have no necessary coherence; the one is lawful, the other unlawful, the one may be retained, the other ought to be taken away. It is no consequence to reason thus; The Nonconformists disallow a Ministry that can do nothing but read, as that which makes men neglect the preaching of the Word, therefore a prescript Liturgy is disliked.  
To appoint or use a prayer conceived or stinted as the Papists do their Matins and Evensong, for a set service to God, howsoever it be uttered ignorantly, for custom with lips only, alone or with others in public or private, as if the rehearsal of such words, though neither understood nonheard, were an acceptable service, from 
l Bills. Christ. subject. part. 4. p. 416. Your main foundation is a dream of your own, that the Church of Corinth had a prescribed number of prayers pronounced by some one Chapsaine, that said his lesson within book, and might not go one line besides his Missale for any good. This you imagine was their Church-Service; all other prayers, Psalms, blessings, & thanksgivings, though they were used openly in the Congregation, and the whole people bound to say, Amen; you will not have to be called Church-service.  which he must not departed one word for any good, is a superstition justly to be condemned. Thus to repeat the words of a prayer, though never so good and holy, is not to pray. But, this makes nothing against the lawful, holy, religions use of a stinted form of prayer public or private, which is that we plead for. And this is all that can be gathered from the Author of the Admonition. There needs no great skill to discern the inconsequence of this manner of arguing which here you use; To use a stinted form as the Papists do for a set-service is naught, though the words be good; therefore a stinted or prescribed form is altogether unlawful.  
And put case some private or singular person hath spoken roughly in heat and passion of the Book of Common-prayer, or seemed to disallow the stinted use of a public found of prayer or Liturgy, his speech or position, delivered as his private conceit, (and perhaps not rightly apprehended) must not be interpreted the principle of the Nonconformists, contrary to the tenor of their writing, profession, and practice, much less must his words be racked contrary to his meaning, as if he condemned all stinted Liturgies as falso, de●ised and idolatrous worship, or did lean unto, favour, or uphold the practice of separation from the assemblies, because such Liturgies are in use among them.  
Howsoever by the grounds of the Nonconformists laid down in the second section, Sect. 3 
Can. Neces. of Separate. pag. 92, 93, 94, etc. to 98.  separation must necessarily follow from all communion with them in the worship of their Church-service-booke, yet to have the point more fully proved, I will here show that every particular thereof, is affirmed of themselves to be idolatrous, false, Antichristian. Touching the Book we may consider two things: First, The distinct services thereof: Secondly, The Ceremonies used in and about the same. We will speak first of their Ceremonies, that is, of the Cross, Surplice, and Kneeling in the act of receiving the Lords Supper: Against these many Treatises have been purposely written; I will here only observe some of their speeches, referring the Reader to their Books, if he desire more satisfaction, etc.  
Voluntary separation from the ordinances of Religion in our assemblies, Answer. is neither commanded by God, nor taught by the Prophets, or Apostles. It is not approved by the practice of the Saints, nor grounded upon the principles of the Nonconformists, as hath been showed. That there be 
m A disputation against the English-popish, etc. Epistle to the Reformed Churches: In England & Ireland, every noisome weed which Gods hand never had planted, was not pulled up, etc. Sprint repl.. to the answ pag. 269. acknowledgeth the reformation of England to have been defective.  abuses and corruptions in the Book, the Nonconformists do not deny; and therefore in all humility they have sought to have them reform; but that they affirm the whole service thereof to be idolatrous, false, Antichristian, that is your impudent slander. That many Treatises have been written against the Ceremonies imposed upon the Ministers and people, is very true. But in the relation which you make out of them, these few things must be observed. First, what is spoken of one Ceremony, you apply to all, when there is not the same reason of all, in the judgement of them that wrote. Secondly, what they writ of the Ceremonies as they are used amongst the Papists, that you report as if they understood it of the use of the Ceremonies as they are imposed and enjoined amongst us. Thirdly, The private opinion of one, you allege, as if it was the common principle of the Nonconformists, though you do, or might know, that generally they are of another mind. Fourthly, Amongst your chiefest Nonconformists you allege, such as be not English-Nonconformists, nor speak of English-Conformitie, but that which was lately brought in among themselves; whose case doth much differ from ours in their judgement. But the further examination of these things is needless; let us hear how from these principles of the Nonconformists, you can conclude the necessity of Separation.  
From all which, 
Can. Neces. of Sep●rat. pag. 98.  this argument may be framed: That worship in which a man cannot possibly communicate without sin, he is bound necessarily to separate from. But that worship in which these Idols are made and used, viz. the Cross, Surplice, and Kneeling, a man cannot possibly communicate without sin. Therefore from that worship, wherein these Idols are made and used, a man is bound necessarily to separate. The proposition is certain, and by Doctor Ames in his cases of Conscience acknowledged. Although (saith 
n Lib. 4. cap. 24.  he) we may join to that Church, in which many defects are to be tolerated, yet not to that in which we cannot but necessarily partake in sin. The Assumption is assented unto by as 
o Parker. Cross. lib. 1. pag. 20. 21.  judicious and zealous Nonconformists as ever held that cause, and they have brought good proofs, for it. First, because men must fly from Idols and Idolothites: But when they come to worship God after the order of the Congregation where these things are practised, they do not fly from them, but draw near unto them. Secondly, Their bare presence argues their approbation, and yielding in show to Ceremonies. Thirdly, 
p Mr. Bates. p. 258.  Though the personal sins of the Minister do not hurt the people, yet his ministerial and public sins do hurt, which he performs for the people to God, and so their joining with him is unlawful. Fourthly, What example can be brought where the holy men of God have communicated with such things. The Author of the dispute upon communicating at their confused Communions, affirms confidently, that the sitter is accessary to the sin of the keeler, and he gives many reasons for it, whereof we shall have a fit occasion hereafter to speak.  
Can any man believe, Answer. that the Nonconformists say both parts of your reason are true, viz. That a man is bound to separate from that society, wherewith he is not permitted to hold communion in the worship of God without sin; and that a man cannot hold communion with the Church of England in the worship of God without sin.  
The first of these propositions is most true taught in Scripture, which forbiddeth. 
q Rom. 3.7, 8.  to do evil that good may come thereof, or 
r job 13.9.  tell a lie for the glory of God, and acknowledged by the learned of all sorts and professions whatsoever. If the Church shall deny communion to any member, because he will not approve the least sin, or acknowledge the least known error for truth, in that case the Church is schismatical, which doth cast out such a member, and not the member which doth suffer himself injuriously to be cast out. For God needs not my lie, and by divine precept I am obliged not to allow against conscience what the Lord condemneth. You need not therefore take such pains as you do, to prove the corruptions in our Book of public service to be so many in number, or heinous in quality, as you would make the world believe; much less to strain your conscience in misreporting as you have done: For if you can show, that by communicating in the ordinances of worship, in that or any other society or Church under Heaven, we necessarily partake in sin, of what sort soever, great or small, either approving what is unlawful, or subscribing to an error known so to be, it will easily be granted that it is unlawful to join in that community. Be the 
s The good Kings of Judah were favoured and blessed of God, for walking in the ways of David their Father, and purging the Land from all sacrifices and ceremonies not prescribed by Moses Law. Bills. Christ. subject. part. 1. p. 32. But if the Princes were remiss, the people were not commanded to separate from the ordinances of worship.  corruptions few or many, great or small; if by communicating in the ordinances of grace in that society, I must necessarily partake in sin; small or great, one or many, my communicating is unwarrantable: And let the abuses be many and great, yet if I may be present at the true worship of God without sin, consent unto, or approbation of such abuses or corruptions, in voluntary separation I sin against God, his Church, and mine own soul, withdrawing myself from the ordinances of grace, the comfortable presence of Christ, and the society of his Saints, without allowance or approbation from God, to whom I own myself wholly.  
Your long Catalogue of corruptions to be found in our Liturgy, is to small purpose, unless you could prove some of them to be fundamental, heretical, and really idolatrous, which you can never do, or that by communicating in the ordinances of grace, we do 
t Be the abuses never so palpable, if the person be not authorized of God to reform them, or separate, it is not Just or lawful for private persons to attempt them. For when Malefactors deserve to die, it is not for private men to put them to death, without the Magistrate. Bilson Christ. subject. part. 3. pa. 97. David committed adultery, Solomon erected idolatry; both offences being death by God's law: might the people therefore have David and Solomon to death?  approve such corruptions, and then be they one or many, great or small, we must not communicate in the ordinances with them. Which if any man shall lightly believe, he may know from whom, but not whither to fly: For there will be found no society in the whole world, whereunto a Christian might lawfully join himself, and yours much less than many others.  
You tell us very confidently, that as zealous and judicious Nonconformists as ever held that cause, affirm, that a man cannot without sin communicate in that worship, where the Ceremonies are used. But whether should a man admire more your impudence, or vain confidence herein? Must not he mistrust you in every thing, that shall consider how notoriously you lavish in this particular? Is it not contrary to their profession, protestation, and practice? Do they not usually frequent the Congregations? have they not written in maintenance and defence thereof? who have cried down by conference, preaching, writing, the neglect of God's ordinances, or the practice of separation more than they? And yet you blush not to write, that our Assumption is assented unto by as judicious and zealous Nonconformists as ever held that cause, and they have brought good reasons for it.  
First, You quote Mr 
u Parker. lib. 1. pag. 20, 21.  Parker, That men must fly from Idols and Idolothites: but men when they come to worship God in societies where the Ceremonies are used, they do not fly from Idols, but draw near unto them. But if a man should have sought out a place of purpose to manifest your fraudulent and unconscionable alleging of men's words and say, he could scarce have found a second more pregnant. The whole passage in Mr Parker, to which you send us, I will set down at large, because it serves to clear the matter in many particulars, and all men may take the better notice of your fidelity. There is an Idol more strictly taken (saith he) and an Idol of larger sense, which will include the Cross. For the better understanding whereof, we must borrow a distinction from the 
w Tho. Aqui. come. in Epist. ad Coloss, c. 1. sect. 4.  Schoolmen, by which a thing may be guilty of Idolatry, Essentialiter, participative, and causaliter: which our doctrine at 
* Hom. of Idolat. par. 1. pag. 4, 5.  home doth bacl, that is confirmed by act of Parliament, affirming that to be an Idol in God's service, which hath been or is like to be worshipped. What is worshipped by ourselves, that is an Idol essentially; what hath been worshipped or is now worshipped abroad by others, that is an Idol by participation; what is likely to be worshipped, that is an 
x August. vet. Testam. qu. lib. 7. qu. 41.  Idol, causing Idolatry in time to come; In which sense, gideon's Ephod may be termed an Idol quedam modo, and that it may be even before it was adored. And hereby are many objections answered. Our 
y Rainold. de Idol. lib. 2. ●ap. 2. sect. 2. Bilson. Christ. subject. part. 4. p. 321. Call you the Image of Christ an Idol; not unless it be worshipped; but if it be, than it is an Idol, and incense burnt unto it is Idolatry.  Writers deny an Image in the Church, say some, to be an Idol, in case it be not worshipped. True, an Idol essentially, but as many of them as desire to have Images thrust out of the Church (of which sort there be a great number) they hold them guilty of Idolatry by participation, and by occasioning, or else why will they thrust them out. A second objection is wont to be made; If the sign of the Cross be an Idol with us, then must men separate from our Church, and from our Baptism; which followeth not. From Idols essentially men ought to separate by the example of the 
z 2 Chron. 11.13.10.  Levites and the two tribes that made separation from the Calves of Jeroboam. From Idols of participation and occasion, men ought to keep their own selves pure, but not to separate, by the ensample of the 
a 2 Reg. 16.21.  godly, who separated not from the Temple of God, for Damascus' Altar there, and from the 
b 1 Reg. 22.43.  Church, because of her high places. It is objected once more against us; If our sign of the Cross be an Idol, than our Ministers that do make it be Idolaters, and our Church Idolatrous also. This follows not neither. For denomination being from the form, and the cross not being formally an Idol amongst us, but materially (I speak in comparison of the Popish Cross, in regard whereof we may be said to use that which is an Idol, but we do not use it idolatrously;) therefore as Dr Fulke 
c Dr. Fulk against Greg. Mart. cap. 3, sect. 20.  concludes of the Lutherans for having Images in their Churches, the same must be said of all those Protestants, that will retain crosses, they sin against the two first Commandments, through Idolothisme, not directly through Idolatry, and therefore they may not be termed Idolaters. Howbeit, by way of reduction, Idolothisme is in some sort guilty of Idolatry, as showeth the 
d 1 Cor. 10.34.  Apostle, who in stead of saying, Fly from Idolothisme, saith, Fly from Idolatry. This Idolatry by reduction what is it else, but Idolatry by participation; as doth appear by the 18.20. and 24. verses following. But this participation is not in our Cross (will our opposites say) who first lest haply they should mistake us, we desire to recount the ancient 
e Pet. Martyr. in 1 Cor. 10.16.  distinction; Plus est communio, quàm participatio; nam ad hanc satis est partem habere, sed ad illam requiritur ut prorsus uniamur, atque totum percipiamus, quod nobis proponitur. This being premised, that we charge the Cross not with a total communion, but with a 
f Things ordained by God, must have reverence, though they be but creatures, as things that be sacred by the word & ordinance of God: But adoration they must not have. Aug. de doct. Christ. lib. 3. cap. 9 Qui veneratur utile signum divinitus institutum, cujus vim significationemque intelligit, non hoc veneratur quod videtur, sed illud potius quo talia cuncta referenda sunt. But Images are signs unprofitable to serve God with, and dangerous; And since the Law of God expressly and strictly chargeth us not so much as to bow our bodies or knees to the likeness of any thing in Heaven or Earth, which is made with hands, it can neither be Christian nor catholic to do it. See Bilson. Christ, subject. part. pag. 391. & 534. Theodoret. Dial. 2. useth the word Adoration for an external regard and reverence. Veneration is a word that Augustine foundeth all the signs & sacraments of the old and new Testament: Adoration he reserveth to God only. Aug. de docr. Christ. lib. 3. cap. 9  participation in part only, we do thus bring in our evidence against him. Thus Mr Parker. Now consider how many ways you falsify his testimony, and whether you did it willingly or no, let your conscience judge? Mr Parker saith, The Cross is an Idol materially but not formally, that is, amongst the Papists it is an Idol essentially, and so the use of the Cross, is the use of that which is an Idol, but not used idolatrously amongst us. You make him to say, because we must fly from Idols, therefore we cannot communicate in the worship of God where the Cross is used without sin. He saith, Men must keep themselves pure from Idolothites, and not partake in the use of them, but not separate from the Church or ordinances of grace, because such rites or ceremonies are used in the administration: you clean contrary make him to say, That men cannot communicate in the ordinances, or worship God in that society, where such things are practised, but of necessity they must communicate in the sin. He teacheth, That he that useth the Idolothite or material Idol, is not an Idolater, because he doth not use it idolatrously: but you make the Nonconformists to say, that it is an idolatrous worship, and that it defileth the true worship of God, to all that are present. Mr Parker extendeth the guilt of participation in part only, to him that useth the Idolothite, you make him to affirm, that every one present at the worship, doth communicate in his offence. Perhaps you will say, it is your inference upon his words: But the consequence is absurd and senseless: And to charge men to affirm directly as a principle, what you would infer contrary to their express words, is far from honest and plain dealing.  
Secondly, You produce Mr Bates, saying, That bare presence argues approbation or yielding in show to Ceremonies, I cannot say, you deal with Mr Bates, as you have done by Mr Parker and others, for I have not seen his Book. But if any such passage be found in him, it is his private opinion, not the judgement of the most learned and zealous Inconformists: It is a bare assertion, not confirmed by Scripture, or backed with reason, as is meet and convenient, when it is the main thing in question, and might easily be opposed by the testimonies of Scripture, approved practice of the Saints in all ages of the Church, the judgement of the godly learned, sound reason, and the consent of all States that ever upheld or maintained Christian Religion. If bare presence be approbation, I desire to know, how you can reconcile yourself to yourself. When Dr Aims allegeth, that every Church is not to be left, which hath something in it by participation Idolatrous. 
g Can. Neces. of Separate. pa. 114, 115.  You answer; I know no man holds the contrary: therefore I cannot tell for what end he speaks it, much less why he puts a schismatical conceit upon the Rej: whose words, if they be well rectified, have substance and weight in them. But if bare presence be approbation, how can we hold communion with that Church, wherein any thing is left, which is by participation idolatrous, when this is that which the Nonconformists impute to the Cross among us, that it is by participation idolatrous in them that use it. And if the reason following be well weighed (though in itself it hath neither weight nor substance) it will over-weigh this: For if bare presence be approbation, why should not the personal sins of the Minister hurt the people! or why are they not guilty of his personal sins by participation, when they communicate with him in the worship of God where they are practised, as in prayer, preaching, administration of the Sacraments, reading the Scriptures, etc. Presence in the Idoll-Temple at idol-worship is sinful, though in heart men pretend to detest Idolatry: vain, needless presence where Idolothites are used, as to eat of things sacrificed to Idols in the place of their Idoll-banquet, or to sit down, though he do not eat, is scandalous and offensive: but presence at God's worship, which God hath commanded, where Christ is present to meet, welcome and bless his servants, though some things by participation Idolatrous be retained or used therein is neither sinful nor offensive, it carrieth no evil appearance of approbation or consent.  
This distinction of personal and ministerial sins, as it is here applied, I never found in the writings of Nonconformist, and in itself it is a mere invention and device, which hath no ground from Scripture, and must have no place in Divinity. For if the Minister be ignorant, proud, careless, profane, corrupt in judgement, superstitious in some observations, be these sins personal or public and Ministerial. If personal, then should not they hurt the people, if this be true which here you affirm: But when you are directly cross to yourself throughout your whole book. If public and ministerial, than the people are guilty of the Ministers ignorance, carelessness, pride, passion, indiscretion, etc. And if these be public and ministerial, I desire to know what is a personal and what a ministerial fault. If a Minister in preaching or prayer put up a rash petition, or deliver a rash sentence, give a weak reason, an unsound trial, use vain repetitions, a confused method; if he misinterpret the Scripture, or do not sound deduce his doctrines out of the Text he taketh upon him to expound; if he divide it not aright, or some way misapply it; are these public and ministerial or personal and private faults, if personal, I desire to know what makes a fault ministerial and public, and see it proved. If that which is done by a Minister in preaching and prayer, blessing and administration of the Sacraments be not ministerial, I know not what is to be called ministerial. If they be public and ministerial, than whosoever communicates with a Minister in the worship of God, he is guilty of all the sins publicly committed by him in this kind, if that distinction be of any worth. Which if it be granted, (If I may judge of your preaching by your writing) it is high time for all your hearers to haste from you, for you mis-alleadge Scripture, slander the godly, speak evil of the ways of God, teach many falsehoods, and whiles they join with you in the worship of God, they are partakers of your transgression.  
The exposition which is made of public and ministerial faults, to wit, such as he performeth for the people to God, is as strange, if not more strange than the distinction itself, as it is applied. For in preaching the Word, and reading the Scripture, a ministerial fault may be committed, which is not performed for the people to God. In prayer, the faults of the Minister are not ever ministerial, if we may believe the forenamed distinction, and yet prayer is an action performed for the people to God. And let that description stand, and the use of our ceremonies are no ministerial faults; for they are neither performed for the people unto God, nor from God unto the people, as the Church professeth. But I have stood too long about these things, because in the first Chapter the contrary hath been showed at large.  
And if Mr Bates be truly alleged in this particular, that bare presence in his conceit was approbation, yet this is a piece of cunning in you not very commendable, that you bring the private judgement of one man, as if it was the common principle of the chiefest Inconformists. For so you do in this place, and so a little 
h Can. Neces. of Separate. pag. 96.  before you say, the strictest Inconformists affirm, that it is utterly unlawful for Parents to bring their children to be crossed, for which you cite only the testimony of the forenamed Author: And yet within a few leaves, you are not ashamed to say in the names of many at least 
i Can. Neces. of Separate. pag. 118. . Note here how greatly they contradict one another. They said even now, that their ceremonies are such Idols, as a man cannot lawfully join with that worship where they are used, yet here they say, that they are not worse than were the superstitions in the Jews worship, unto which Christ and his Apostles joined. The chief thing here to be noted is your unconscionable dealing. First, you pretend to set down the principles of the Nonconformists, and to infer upon their grounds the necessity of separation, when you relate nothing less, than that which they affirm. Secondly, The 
k Beza. Epist. 2. Verum inquient, ut non inquinemur eorum peccato, attamen favere eorum errorem sic videbitur. Imò ne hoe quidem satis recte dicitur. Quid enim absurdius est, quàm cum accusare tanquam alieni vitiis fautorem, qui ut fratrem lucratur, ejus infirmitatem rolerat. Tibi non frangitur panis, sed integer datur & laudari sane id non potest, nec debet, at tu certe id peccatum non committis, quod in te potius committitur.  opinion of one man walking alone, you charge upon all, or the chiefest of the Nonconformists, who descent as much from him therein, as he doth from the most rigid Separatist. Thirdly, He saith not, That our Ceremonies are Idols, but speaks of the Cross only: and if he say of the use thereof, as it is amongst us, that it is Idolatry, it is that which he can never prove, nor Inconformist will take upon him to justify. And if bare presence be approbation and consent, all worship must be forsaken, which hath any thing annexed unto it erroneous, irreverent, superstitious in the manner of performance by the Minister: for we must not do the least evil for the greatest good. Fourthly, Whatsoever you can make of our Ceremonies or other abuses and corruptions in the worship of God, I do not think you can bring forth any one Nonconformist, that ever said the use of the Ceremonies amongst us, are worse than the superstitions and corruptions in the Jews worship in the days of our Saviour Christ and his Apostles; unto which worship our Saviour and his Apostles joined themselves.  
Thirdly, You allege the 
l A dispute against the English-popish Epist to all reform. Though some of the controverted ceremonies have been kept and reserved in many (not all) the reformed churches, yet they are not therefore to be the better liked of. For the reason of the reservation was, because some reverend Divines, etc. is scarcely expected to effectuate so much as the purging of the Church from fundamental errors and gross Idolatry, which wrought them to be content, that lesser abuses in Discipline and Church-government should then be tolerated, etc. All which since they were once purged away from the Church of Scotland, etc.  Author of the Dispute upon communicating at confused Communions, affirming that the sitter is accessary to the sin of the kneeler. But he was no English-Nonconformist, nor doth entreat of English conformity. And if there be any special reasons, why presence should be accounted approbation with them in that particular, it is no equity his private opinion should be brought to the prejudice of them that maintain another cause. But as yet we cannot see either from Scripture grounds, or Nonconformists principles, that it is utterly unlawful to be present at the worship of God, in the administration whereof some superstitious rite is used, or some fault committed.  
Your long labour in setting down the faults to be found in our Liturgy is to small purpose. The Nonconformists do except against many things appointed in the Book, as inconvenient at least, and such as should be taken away or reform; as, The reading of Apocryphal books, under the title of holy Scripture, specially such parts as be corrupt for matter: The Cross and Surplice as Idolothites by participation and signs of mystical signification: The corruptions in the translations: and some things in the forms of Burial, Matrimony, Thanksgiving for Women after childbed, etc. But these they condemn not as Idolatry, nor as that which maketh the worship itself 
m Magdeburg. centu 2. ca 2. col. 109. A true Church as it contains the pure doctrine, so also it keeps simplieitie of ceremonies; but an hypocritical Church, as it departs from pure doctrine, so for the most part it changeth & augmenteth the ceremonies instituted of God, and multiplieth its own traditions, etc. Can. Stay. pa. 123.  false and idolatrous. It is one thing to say such a rite is inconvenient, superstitious, scandalous borrowed from the Papists, not warranted by the word of God, in the use will-worship, if the word be taken largely; another that the worship itself is false and idolatrous. Therefore I will not stand to examine the particulars therein, but proceed to examine what you bring further to show the necessity of Separation.  

SECT. iv  
HEre is a fit place to propound a Question or two; First, whether to hold, teach, and practise the errors and lies contained in their Canons, Service-booke, Book of Articles, and the ordering of Bishops, Priests, and Deacons, do mak● a false Prophet. Secondly, Whether to hid from the people the knowledge of all the main truths, which concern the outward regiment of Christ's visible Church, make a false Prophet. Thirdly, Whether it be lawful to hear any false Prophet known so to be. Queen In what rank of Prophets, unlawful Ministers be, and under what Scripture they are comprehended. I would have a private Christian ask this Question of some learned Divine, whom he knows doth hold it lawful to hear false Ministers. And it is very likely he will answer him with deep silence. There is one Question more, viz. whether the Lords lawful Priests, which served at the Altar in Jerusalem, might not as well urge their people to hear Jeroboams Priests at Dan and Bethel, as the Ministers now under the Gospel, to persuade men to hear in false Churches. If is be not all one, show the difference.  

ANSWER.  
TO your two last Questions, answer hath been made divers times in sundry Treatises, and in the first chapter of this present answer, and you know the Scriptures plainly alleged, to confirm what is said, which you should have confuted if you had been able, and not again and again to come over with the same thing. If any learned Divine shall answer the demand with deep silence, it may be because the party demanding is uncapable of an answer, not because there is any great difficulty in the matter. It is a received Rule, That the Accuser, Plaintiff, and Affirmer, should make proof of what they say, and if you err, your Questionist will affirm, it is all one for the people of the Jews to hear Jeroboams Priests at Dan and Bethel, and the people in England to hear the word of God in our assemblies, you must either bring good evidence for what you say, or bear the brand of Slanderers or false 
n Beza. Epist. 2. An enim obsecro aliter est de Sacramentis. i. de doctrinae appendicibus, quàm de ipsa doctrina judicandum. At qui si nullam esse ecclesiam dicamus ubi nullus est prorsus in cunctis doctrinae Christianae dogmatibus naevus, refellent nos Pauli Epistolae Corinthiacis, et Galaticis Ecclesiis inscriptae; etc. Itaque ubi non satis pura est Ecclesiâ, Ecclesia tamen est in qua salvum manet fundamentum, ac multo magis ubi ritus Caenae Domini mutilus est, Caena tamen est, etc.  Accusers. Is it sufficient think you to say, If it be not so, let them show the contrary. Your second Question will come to be handled in the next Chapter, and there it shall be answered. Your first Question only which I scarce think another man would have asked, pertaineth to this place whereunto I answer directly and plainly, That a Minister of the Gospel, may hold, teach, and practise, according to the Book of Common Prayer, Articles, and Ordination, and be a true Minister of Jesus Christ. Nay, he cannot truly hold and practice according to them, but of necessity he must be a true Minister in respect of his office and administration. For the worship for substance there prescribed is of God, the doctrine professed in respect of faith and Sacraments, sound and true. No error either in speech heretical, or which doth tend to overthrow the foundation which is taught in them. Suppose the seventy errors which 
o Can. Neces. of Separate. pag. 243, 244, 245.  you reckon up were all true, and justly taken against the Books, and as many more to them might be named; as it is not the number but the qualities of the errors which make a false Prophet, false Church, or false worship. One fundamental error (as the word is commonly used) overthroweth the faith: and twenty errors of inferior alloy, do not much hurt the truth and soundness of faith. The main truths which concern the very life and soul of Religion be 
p Usher. de success. Eccl. cap. 1.  few, and the failings which may stand with the substance of Religion many. Let it ask a better wit and head then ever Mr Dar. (or your 
q Can. Neces. of Separate. pag. 185.  self) had to prove that there are half so many corruptions in the Religion professed by the English-Anabaptists (add if you please, the Separatists, Pelagians, Arrians) as are to be found in the English-Liturgie: It will not be hard to prove that errors must be 
r The communion of the Catholic Church is not broken by the variety of rites, customs, laws, and fashions, which many places and countries have different each from other, except they be repugnant to faith or good manners. August. Epist. 118. ad januar. Euseb. hist. lib. 5. cap. 26. & lib. 5. c. 23. Socrat. lib. 5. ca 21.  weighed, and not numbered; and that the errors of all these sorts are in specie much more dangerous and pernicious, though not so many. If you can prove any one error in specie heretical, to be taught in those Books, according to the true meaning and intent of the Books, than I will consent unto you, that he which administers in all things according unto them, is not a true Minister of Jesus Christ: But if that cannot be done (and I presume you will hardly be drawn to attempt it) in all your raging terms and reproachful taunts cast upon our worship, Church, and Ministry, you do but foam out your own shame. The true Ministers of Christ may err in many things, else it will hardly be found, that there is any true Minister: and therefore to prove a Minister to be a false Prophet, it sufficeth not to say; he 
s Cypr. li. 2. Ep. 3. If any of our predecessors either ignotantly or simply did not observe & keep that which the Lord by his example and authority willed, his simplicity may be pardoned by the goodness of God. Aug. Ep. 48. This blemish in his most beautiful breast, he covered with the tears of charity, August. de Baptis. l. 4. cap. 5. Ignosci potest simpliciter erranti.  erreth in many things; but we must show the errors for quality to be such, as cannot be in a true or lawful Prophet of the Lord  
And here I would ask you this one Question; Whether there was any true Ministry in the Christian Churches, within the space of the fourth, fift, or fixed ages after Christ. If not; what is then become of the promises of God made to the Churches of the New Testament? If yes; whether was not their course of administration polluted with as many, or more dangerous errors, than can truly be named in all the Books forementioned? And so expecting your resolution of this one demand, I proceed to your third ground of Separation, drawn, as you say, from the Nonconformists Principles.     

CHAP. III.  

SECT. I.  
IF the public Assemblies of England have not the power of the censures, 
Can. Neces. of Separate. p. 149, 150.  and excommunication, but stand under a government which came wholly and every part from the Devil, and Antichrist, then is their condition naught, then are they false and Antichristian Churches. The reason is, because this power is of absolute necessity for the Churches of Christ, an essential property thereof, and serve not only for their well-being, but the being itself, for without this, there can be no coupling of the parts and members together. And so much 
t De consc. lib. 4. cap. 24. pag. 214.  Dr Ames testifieth. Now the Assemblies of England were not gathered by any such power, but in their first constitution wanted the same, and had this false power which is exercised at this day, as the Nonconformists do acknowledge. Our arguments which we have used in this point, have been to this effect: Every true visible Church hath a power immediately under Christ, to execute Church-government. But the public Congregations of England, have not any such power under Christ to execute Church-government. Therefore they are not true visible Churches. What they will say to this I know not, but hitherto they have been silent, or answered to no purpose in the world. For it is usually their manner to tell us, how the Churches in Corinth, Pergamus, Thyatira, etc. neglected to execute discipline, as though there were no difference betwixt omitting to administer the ordinance, and the want wholly of it; yea, and to have an Antichristian and devilish in the room of it.  

ANSWER.  
YOu undertook to prove the necessity of Separation from the Nonconformists Principles: But here you reject their Principles with disdain, and build your responsive conclusions, as you call them, upon your own foundation, which you know doth not accord with their Principles.  
The Nonconformists hold discipline necessary to the well-being of a Church, the safety of Religion, the preservation of God's ordinances from contempt. They compare it to the 
u Bilson. perpet. ch. gov. ca 1. Since the Church of Christ is the house of God, the City of the living GOD, and the kingdom of his well-beloved Son: Shall we think that God is careful for others, & careless for his own? or that confusion ought to be less doubted and feared in heavenly than in earthly things.  wall of a City, hedge of a Vineyard, fence of a Garden, and bounds of an Orchard: but never said it to be of absolute 
w Jewel. Serm. on Iosh. 6.1, 2, 3. Discipline is so needful, that neither without it shall ye be able thoroughly to discomfort those that seek to build up Jericho, etc.  necessity, that there could be no City, Vineyard, Garden, or Orchard without it. But this in your judgement is broken-stuffe, not worthy any answer. For where do they read, say 
x Can. Neces. of Separate. pag. 151.  you, in Scripture, that this power which Christ hath given to his Church, is compared to a wall, or hedge, etc. But rather it may be likened to the power of the body, which receiveth food, and thereby excrements are purged, and avoided, the want whereof were in nature prodigious, neither could the body possibly subsist and live. In the same page you take up Dr Laiton roundly after your manner, for saying, that the 
y Cypr. lib. 1. ep. 10. Concil. Carthag. 3. ca 35. Gratian. decr. p. 3. dist. 2. cap. 95, 96. Bills. Christ. subject. part. 2. pa. 335. I do not mislike that malefactors of all kinds, not only drunkards, railers, perjurers, adulterers, usurers, and such like, but also thiefs, robbers, ravishers, murderers, plagiaries, incendiaries, traitors and all other heinous offenders, when their lives be spared by Princes, should be driven to earnest and open repentance before they be received into the Church, or admitted to the divine mysteries: yea, rather I think it very needful in a Christian Commonwealth, that God be pleased, and the Church preserved from all communion with these monstrous impieties, etc.  want of an integral part of the whole is no sufficient ground of Separation. He speaks, you say, as a man most ignorant of the nature of Church-power; for were he able truly to define it, he should see that it is of such necessity as a people cannot constitute themselves in the right order of the Gospel without it, as we have before expressed. Expressed it may be, but not proved by Scripture or reason, drawn from Scripture. How palpably you abuse Dr Aims testimony is showed before, and it makes as plainly against your reason as a thing can be spoken. But that is broken-stuffe which pleaseth you not, and he is ignorant that applauds not your dictates. To be taunted and reviled, is answer sufficient to be given to us simple poor ignorants, who know not truly to define what Church-power is. But whether this stuff be broken, or the Nonconformists ignorant what Church-power is or no: this is evident, your inferences in this point are not correspondent to their Principles, nor can be deduced from them, as in the beginning you promised: And then upon what bottom doth this reason stand, or by what prop is it underset, but your own bare affirmation, which is much too weak to bear so great a weight. Whosoever means (
z Can. Neces. of Separate. pag. 210.  you say) to settle well the conscience, especially in a main point of faith and Religion, ought necessarily to bring good proofs from Scripture, for the things whereof he speaketh. For otherwise men must give no trust unto his words, or if they do, it must be unadvisedly. And what think you then, if men upon your bare word, give credit unto this argument, is it not unadvised? You bid 
a Bilson difference, part. 1. pag. 20. What we say without proof, reject you without answer. If that rule may stand we need no further confutation of the rest of your Apology, for there (besides taunts & terms) I see nothing.  prove the contrary, if any man be able. But that is not to ground the conscience upon God's truth. If your assertion be not taught in holy Scripture, it is an unwritten tradition, an humane invention, a dream of your own, in your conceit, false worship, and flat Idolatry, though your opposites be able to say nothing against it but this, that it is not taught of God.  
What the Nonconformists will say to this argument you know not, but hitherto they have said nothing, or as good as nothing. It is well you say not both Propositions are theirs, as you do in the former with as little truth, as if you had said it here. But if you had perused their writings against Separation, as you have observed what sharp words they let fall against the corruptions in our Church and Liturgy, you might have known, that they say somewhat, and somewhat to the purpose, not worthy your answer, but what can never be truly answered: First, Discipline, they say, is taken two ways. First, Largely, for the whole order pertaining to the gathering and governing of a Church, the ordering of divine worship, and manner of men. And in this sense, 
b Bilson, perpet. Ch. govern. cap. 1. pag. 3. Order and Discipline the very nurse and mother of all peace and quietness, as well in divine as in humane Societies, & assemblies, though it be not the life or spirit that quickeneth the Church: yet doth it fasten and knit the members thereof, as joints and sinews do the parts of our bodies. Id. ca 9 The Gospel must be preached, the Sacraments must be frequented, for which purpose some must be taken to the public service, and ministry of the Church, etc. Neither only the lack of the Word and Sacraments, but the profanation and abuse of either, how greatly doth it endanger the state and welfare of the whole Church of Christ? yea, the casting of holy things to dogs, and of pearls before swine, how dreadful a judgement doth it procure, as well to the consenters as presumers? A little Leaven soureth the whole mass: So that power to send Labourers into God's harvest, and to separate profane persons for defiling the mysteries and assemblies of the faithful, must be retained and used in the Church of Christ, unless we will turn the house of God into a den of thiefs, etc. Act. 2.41, 42.44, 45, 46, 47. & 11.20, 21.26. & 13.43.48. & 14.1.21, 22, 23.  Discipline is neither the matter nor form of the Church, but an inseparable property, and so there can be no Church without some Discripline. Secondly, It is taken strictly, for the administration of the censures. in which sense, it is not absolutely necessary to the being, but to the well-being and safety of the Church. Secondly, They answer that by divine right the power of the keys is given to every complete, Apostolical Church, but the execution of this power may be wanting, either through their negligence, or because they are hindered; as in Sardis, Thyatira, Ephesus, etc. And this is to the purpose, for the Question is of the power to execute the Discipline of Christ, and not of the simple right to execute it. And in your opinion the execution of Discipline is absolutely necessary to the being of the Church, without which it can neither be gathered, nor subsist. Take your own comparison, unless the body do both receive food, and purge out excrements, it is not possible it should subsist and live. If therefore Sardis, Pergamus, Thyatira, etc. continued the true Churches of Christ, when the greater sort would not, and the better could not purge out excrements, or all were grossly negligent, it followeth that the execution of discipline or power to execute discipline, is not absolutely necessary to the being of the Church. Thirdly, The Church of England wanteth not the discipline of Christ for substance either in respect of right or execution, though it be not administered as it ought. These are the Answers which they give, and they are too heavy to be spurned away with scorn, when ever you shall try their weight.  
Thus I might dismiss your first band, as being put to flight already. But I will spend a little time to examine both propositions. And for the first it is to be noted, that the word Church (to let pass other significations) is taken: First, For the community of the faithful few or many, two, three, or more, men or women, without guides or officers; for believers dispersed and scattered by persecution, spoilt of their guides, or such as being newly called never had guides set over them, are yet the true Church of Christ. Secondly, The society of the faithful, joining together in the ordinances of worship under a lawful Pastor is a true Church, though defective in many officers and ordinances required to the perfection of the Church. Thirdly, A 
c Bilson. ibid. ca 1. The internal regiment that God hath by his Spirit and truth in the hearts of the faithful, is the true kingdom of christ, cannot be varied, is not questioned in the Church of England. But there is a necessity also of external government, which respecteth the appointing of meet men, and repelling of unmeete, to be trusted with the heavenly treasures of the Word and Sacraments. As also the good using and right dividing of so precious jewels committed to their charge.  competent number of faithful people joined in society under lawful Pastors, Teachers, and Elders, to watch over, rule, feed and guide them in the ways of God, are a true and complete constituted Church of Jesus Christ.  
The word Discipline also is used two ways, as hath been said; First, In a larger sense, as comprehending all order and behaviour concerning a Church in outward duties, and so (among the rest) the daily planting and building by the calling and offering of the Word by the Ministers, and the hearing, receiving, and obeying by the people. As military discipline is put for the whole art or manner of ordering Soldiers. Secondly, In a more strict signification it is the political guiding of the Church, and is exercised principally, if not only in the 
d Henry Ainsw. first answer, etc. pag. 30. Whereupon Christ pronounced a blessing, and annexed promises, not for himself, but (as you grant for his successors also, as I defend) for the other Apostles also. Ibid. Set you down by the scriptures, what is meant by keys, and I will show you by Scriptures also, that the 12 Apostles had equal power in using them.  administration of Church censures; and this is that discipline which generally, all Ecclesiastical Writers speak of. And this power likewise must be considered either in respect of right or the first act, as they call it, or in respect of execution and the second act.  
These distinctions thus plainly propounded, the answer to the Proposition is distinctly this; First, If the word Discipline be taken in the largest acceptation, it is necessary to the Church, because no Society can be held or gathered without some order. Secondly, If it be taken in the strictest signification, it belongeth not to the Community of the faithful few or many. For the power of governing the Church belongeth to them primarily and in respect of use and execution, to 
e Bills: Christ, Subject. part. 2. p. 361. The Priest hath his Commission as a servant to call for subjection and obedience, not unto himself, but unto his Lord and Master that sent him, etc. who must preach himself, the servant of meaner men than Princes, and make himself the servant of all men, if he note well the words of his Commission, etc.  whom Christ hath communicated it. But Christ hath not given this power to the faithful, few or more, but to his officers, whom he hath appointed to feed and govern his folk. Thirdly, If a society enjoy but one Pastor or Teacher for the time, the power of government doth not belong unto him. For Christ hath not committed this power unto one but unto many. The power of 
f A dispute part. 3. c. 8. p. 188. We must distinguish a twofold power of the keys; the one Concionalis, the other Judicialis. The former is proper for Pastors alone, whose vocation it is by the preaching and publishing of God's Word, to shut and open the Kingdom of heaven. The keys of external discipline belongeth to the whole Consistory. Trelcat. instit. Theol. lib. 2. pag. 287.  preaching and administration of the Sacraments is given to one, and may be executed by him alone: But the power of guiding or governing is given to the College Ecclesiastical, or company of Governors, and must not be executed by any others. And if one alone may not challenge that which is committed unto a society, it is not for one Pastor to excommunicate his people. And hence it follows necessarily, that discipline or power of governing or dispencing the keys, is not absolutely necessary to the being of the Church. For if there may be a true Christian Church without Pastors or Teachers, but not 
g Pareus in 1 Cor. 5. de Excom. Eorum quae conveniunt Presbyteris, vi ordinis sui Presbyterialis, duo sunt genera: Alia enim immediatè conveniunt singulis personaliter: alia vero immediatè conveniunt, non quidem singulis personaliter, sed conjunctis collegialiter sive Presbyterio. Forb. Irenis. lib. 2. cap. 10. prop. 13. pag. 191. de prohibitis ordinantibus.  power of the keys or Ecclesiastical government, than the power of government is not absolutely necessary to the being of a Church. And if the Presbytery be the only executioners of the censuring discipline, then if the Church may be without a Presbytery, it may want the discipline in respect of execution. For where the Officer is wanting, there the office also is wanting as touching the execution thereof. If all the Officers of discipline should die at once, or the Church should want her officers; the faithful have not power of discipline either originally or actually, either to convey it virtually or formally to her Ministers, whom she might choose, or to execute it herself. But the faithful do remain a Church, when her officers are 
h Bilson. perp. gover. cap. 10. It is not to be doubted, that in the Apostles times every city where the Gospel was received, had many Prophet's Pastors and Teachers, not only travelling to and fro, to exhort and confirm the brethren, but abiding & persisting in the same, all labouring to increase the number of the Church, etc.  dispersed by persecution, taken away by death, be wanting through her negligence, or some other way. In your own way and constitution, the Church may be without both Pastor and Teacher, and that for a long time, till fit men may be chosen unto that office; in all which time it must want the administration of the Sacraments, and execution of discipline.  
We have not learned, that every Christian is a King and a Prince, to rule with 
i Bilson. perpet. gover. cap. 3. Externall Regiment is no part of Christ's Kingdom, which is proper to his person, and by many degrees excelleth all other governments, for the divine force and grace, that are eminent in the spiritual fruits and effects of his Kingdom.  Christ by open rebuke, if no other do rebuke in season, or by debarring them from communion and fellowship of the Church, whom he judgeth or censureth worthy to be cast out, as men out of covenant. For if all that are made of Christ by communion with him Kings & Priests unto God, should be made Kings and Priests unto God in order political to rule and govern his Church, than power to govern should be given to every singular person,, not to the community alone, to women and children no less than unto men. The life and being of a Church standeth in the very knitting of the faithful unto Christ: for it is Christ that giveth salvation to the body: And if union give it the form of a Church, it must necessarily be a Church before it practise this discipline, because it hath no place but in an united body or Congregation. Those three thousand souls that were gained at one prosperous 
k Act. 2.38.41, 42, 44, 45, 46, 47.  Sermon of Peter, were the Church of God, when they received the Word with gladness, and were baptised, before any power of Government was given unto or established among them. The like is of the 
l Act. 8.5, 6.11. & 9.31.  Church, or Congregation of Samaria.  
Fourthly, Of right the communicated power of government belongeth to every complete Society, or rather to every Ecclesiastical college or assembly, set apart by Christ for the guidance of his people: but the execution of that power may be hindered through 
m Zanc. de oper. redempt. in 4. praecep. de discipl. Eccles. If it be a small Church, and not consisting of many learned and skilful men, excommunication ought not to be done, except the neighbour churches be asked counsel of.  ignorance, negligence, unjust usurpation, or the like. The right of government in Christ's name belongeth unto them, because it flows from the ordinance and constitution of Christ, as a proper adjunct which cannot be separated from the subject. But the action itself of government may be 
n A disput. part. 3. c. 8. p. 189. When we teach that the Pastor or Pastors of every particular Church or congregation, with the Elders of the same, being met together have power to bind and lose: we understand this only of such places, wherein a competent number of understanding and qualified men, may be had to make up an Eldership.  hindered divers ways, when the being of the Church is not destroyed. The Pastors and Teachers may be ignorant of their privileges, and so give away that which of right belongeth unto them; or they may be negligent in the execution of their office, and not heedfully attend to the Ministry committed unto them. The greater part may prevail against the better, or some few may usurp into their own hands the power which belongeth unto the Society, which being once gained cannot easily be regained or redeemed, in which cases the lawful action of government is hindered, when yet the Church remaineth the true Church of Christ. Thus it hath been with the 
o Ambros. in 1 Cor. cap. 5. The Apostle decreed that by the consent and in the presence of all men, he should be cast out of the Church, etc.  Church of God in all ages, ever since there was a Church upon the face of the earth. And from this fountain have sprung the errors, abuses and corruptions, which have prevailed in the Church of God. For if 
p Hieron. ad He●iodor. in Id. ad Reparium advers. Vigilantium.  disorders get head, of necessity the action of government is some way hindered or neglected.  
Now to your Assumption. First, Every particular 
q August. contr. e●. Parm. lib. 3. c. 2.  Society of believers in the Church of England, or singular Pastor of this or that Congregation hath not the power of government, neither doth it of right or by divine gift belong unto the community of the faithful, or one singular Pastor. Secondly, The power of Government as it consisteth in discerning betwixt the precious and the vile, admonishing the inordinate, and excommunicating the obstinate, is considered either in respect of the substance, parts and duties thereof, or in respect of the ordering and administration by such persons, and in such a course. This distinction must be granted or else all the Churches which administer discipline amiss in any circumstance at any time, must be charged to have no discipline at all; and they that commit the administration of discipline to persons in men's opinion not designed by Christ, not to have the discipline of Christ for substance: For example, they that commit the execution of discipline to the Presbytery or Classis, have not the discipline of Christ, in the judgement of the Separation, because Christ (as they say) hath committed it to the community or body of the Society. And they that commit the power of government to the 
r Chrysost. in Math. Hom. 83. No small vengeance hangeth over your heads, if you suffer any heinous offender to be partaker of this Table.  people or community jointly with the Elders, in the judgement of reformed Churches, have not the discipline of Christ, because he hath committed it to the Presbytery. And every act of government may be excepted against as a nullity, because in some circumstance or other the order prescribed by Christ is not fully observed. This then considered, the Church of England is not without the 
s If any Prince would be baptised or approach to the Lords Table, with manifest show of unbelief or irrepentance, the Minister is bound freely to speak, and rather to lay down his life at the Prince's feet, then to let the King of Kings be provoked, the mysteries defiled, his own soul and the Princes endangered, for lack of often and earnest admonition.  discipline of Christ for substance, whether the word be taken largely or strictly, whether we respect right or execution; but the outward form and ordering of the discipline is not in all things according to the Word of God. I● by divine right the power of government belongeth, either to the society of Church-governors', or the community of the faithful, it belongeth also to the Pastors, Teachers, Elders, Assemblies among us. As for the execution of discipline largely taken, all men know the Word is truly preached, and the Sacraments are duly and rightly 
t Bilson Christian subj. part 2. p. 302. If you mean they may not minister the Sacraments unto Princes, without faith & repentance which God requireth of men that shall be baptised, or have access to his Table, we grant they must rather hazard their lives than baptise Princes which believe not, or distribute the Lords mysteries to them that repent not Bilson Christ. subj. part 3 p. 2. & part. 3. p. 248. If the Prince will not submit himself to the rules and precepts of Christ, but wilfully maintain heresy & open impurity, the Bishops are without flattery to reprove and admonish the Prince of the danger that is imminent from God, and if he persist, they must cease to communicate with him in divine prayer and mysteries. Bills. Ch. sub. part. 3. pag. 63, 64. 74.  administered: and in what society soever God is truly worshipped, of necessity the discipline of Christ is in some sort observed. If we speak of discipline more strictly, all men know the Church of England by doctrine professeth, by Law hath established, and daily practiseth for substance, the execution of the very discipline of Christ. The ordering and administration of the censures as it is in the Church of England, is faulty and corrupt, and how the godly have laboured, according to their places, the redress of that evil, is not unknown to the world in part. But the want of due execution of discipline or disordered administration thereof, doth not argue the Church to want discipline, but the due ordering of discipline, nor to be no Church, but to be defective and much out of order.  
In the Church of the Jews in the old 
u Jer. 20.1.2, 3. & 29.26, 27, Mat. 10.17. jude v. 4.7.8.10.  Testament there was many times great neglect of discipline and abuse thereof. In the Churches of the New Testament, as in Corinth, Galatia, the Churches to which James and Judas wrote, and Rome, the execution of discipline could not take place, or was much neglected. Diotrephes usurped over the Church, and corrupted the discipline, when the Church continued the true Church of Christ, and the faithful abode in that society; This instance Dr Ames truly alleged, to show that the reprovers of abuses do not lay the foundation of schism or separation from the Church, which 
x Can. Neces. of Separate. pag. 163.  you do well to spurn at, because you know not how to remove it. For what if you do not read that Diotrephes was an unlawful and Antichristian Minister? you read that he usurped over the faithful, hindered the due execution of Church-censures, abused excommunication, prated against the Brethren, and practised a false government. And if the want of discipline or neglect of due execution, prove a Church to be no Church, the faithful in that society were bound to separate. If the Church had not the power of government at this time, (if we may believe you or receive your position) they were no church: if they had power in their hands, and suffered it to be abused, their sin was the greater. And if you take a view of your deal in this or other particulars, vilifying what you are not able to confute, and wresting men's words contrary to their plain meaning, if your paper blush not, I can hardly think but your conscience will smite.    

SECT. II.  
IF the Church of England hath not Christ's keys, 
Can. Neces. of Separate. pag. 154.  she is not his, saith Mr D. But the Church of England hath not Christ's keys, saith Mr Brightman and 
y Zion's plea. 111.  others. Therefore she is not his house, and consequently to be separated from.  

ANSWER.  
YOur former reasons out of Mr D. I pass over, because they have been answered already, and are here thrust in to no purpose, but only to cover the insufficiency of your reply. His answer was, the want of discipline, though an integral part, is no sufficient ground of separation. This 
z Can. Neces. of Separate. p. 152, 153.  you offer not to disprove by any substantial reason, but with railing and reproach to disgrace, wherein whether you more wound your own conscience, or hurt your adversary, be judge yourself. 
a Can. Neces. of Separate. pag. 212. 1 Pet. 3.9. Rom. 13.21.  You say truly, It is a Christian part not to render rebuke for rebuke, and a thousand times better were it, to sustain even a legion of reproaches, than for a man by turning (though but one) to give cause of suspicion, that evil hath got some part of conquest over him. But if you look into your own writings, you shall find them stuffed with insolent boasting, scornful taunts and reproaches, unbeseeming your place, person, and a good cause. I dare say, all the Nonconformists that ever wrote in the cause of discipline, never went in practice so much against their Principles, as you in this one particular, go against your profession in the foresaid passage, and a good conscience.  
The matter in hand betwixt you and Mr D. is the absolute necessity of Church-discipline to the being of a Church; To what end then do you bring, That the Book of common-prayer used in the Assemblies of England, is an infectious Liturgy, Romish-stuffe, a devised service, raked out of three Romish Channels? That the Ministry of the Church of England is unlawful and Antichristian! That the Ministry, worship, and government of of England are corruptions! Doth this make aught to confirm your position, or weaken the answer which was truly given? But some thing must be said, whether to or besides the purpose, it matters not.  
Another stratagem 
b Can. Neces. of Separate. pag. 153.  you put in practice in the same place, not very commendable. You would seem to confute the D. out of himself. What say you, if it appear that Mr D. arguments, do lead rather to separation, and that he speaketh one thing, and practiseth another; would not this be a strange sight, especially, to himself? Now whether this be so, we will here try by some reasons in his own mood and figure. But though the mood and figure be his, the reasons be your own, and not his, and the conclusions unjustly drawn from the Premises, as the D. answered, and we have showed before. Perhaps in war stratagems may be of use, but in the cause of God such cunning devices are dangerous symptoms. This I note, to entreat your serious reexamination of what you have done: and now I come to the argument here propounded, whereunto I make answer as you relate it, for I have not the D. Book to search out what he hath written.  
The power of the keys is twofold, Conciovalis & Judicialis, as it is usually called. The first consists in the preaching of the Gospel, wherein the kingdom of heaven is opened to the penitent, sins remitted, life promised, and heaven shut to the obstinate: which is the sword and the sceptre of Christ, whereby he saveth his people, 
2 Cor. 1.21. 2 Cor. 10.4. Isa. 11.4. Rom. 1.16.  and conquereth his enemies, beateth down every strong hold, p●ireeth to the division of foul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and judgeth the very cogitations and thoughts of the heart. These effects Christ executeth by his Word, even when it is not assisted by the 
c To excommunicate is to remove the wicked & irrepentant from participation of the Lords Supper: lest by sacrilegious presuming to violate that Table, the ungodly should condemn themselves, and defile others. Bilson perpet. gov. cap. 9  discipline spoken of. Now if it be rightly understood, the Church of God cannot be without this key. For the Church is gathered by the Word, and is a company or society which hath received the Word in profession at least, and doth possess it, and amongst whom it dwelleth. The Judicial power of the 
d Excommunication is a mere spiritual punishment, & reacheth no further by God's word than to take from offenders the remission of their sins, by wanting the Word and Sacraments, until they repent. Bilson. Christian. part 3. pag. 52.  keys is the power of government, which consisteth principally in the right ordering and dispensation of Church censures, and so of the manners and necessities of all men: which agreeth not to any one member, nor to the community of the faithful, nor to any one singular governor, but to the Ecclesiastical Senate, yet with due respect had to the community of the faithful. In the first sense, the Church of England hath the power of the keys, 
e 
Cyp. lib. 1. epist. 3. I hardly persuade the people, yea, I am forced to wrest it from them, before they will suffer such to be admitted. Bilson. perpet. gov. c. 9 Great reason had those godly Fathers to see the whole Church satisfied, before they released the sentence of excommunication, etc. and so doing they shown not what right the multitude had to sit judges with the Bishop, but what ●●e themselves had to remove from the people all occasions of stumbling.  
Id. pag. 113. If you take Excommunication for removing the unruly from the civil society of the faithful, until they conform themselves unto a more Christian course of life, I am not altogether averse, that the whole Church should concur in that action, etc. See August. contr. Par, Ep. 1, l. 2. ca 1. Can. Stay, Sect. 12. pag. 123.   not so much as is to be desired, but in an eminent sort; and that with God's blessing upon the labour of his servants, if any other Church under Heaven. In the second signification, the power of the keys for substance is in our Church, but the manner of ordering and administration of them is corrupt and faulty. But this power of the keys is not of absolute necessity to the being of the Church, but to the well-being only. Here is a fit place to answer your Question: Whether to hid from the people the knowledge of all the main truths, which concern the outward regiment of Christ's visible church, make a false Prophet.  
It would be known what you call main truths, which concern the outward regiment of Christ's visible Church. The power of government is proper and communicated: Proper, that which Christ hath reserved peculiar to himself, and is executed according to his infinite wisdom, by the secret hand of his divine power, and the effectual work of his holy Spirit, making the word of exhortation and reproof, comfort and instruction, to some the savour of life unto life; whence followeth effectual answering to their calling, rejoicing, comfort, and growing up to perfection. Not to mention further, how he succoureth the godly, bestoweth some gifts, (though not such as accompany Salvation) upon the wicked; bridleth, curbeth and confoundeth his enemies. His communicated Government is that which being limited within the compass of certain Laws and Canons of his holy Word; he hath committed to be exercised and executed in and by Societies, according to his appointment. The chief and principal means Christ useth here, is the preaching of his Word, whereby he saveth his people, and conquereth his enemies. The discipline is as a Chariot for the Word to ride upon, and to keep other ordinances from contempt; but it is not the most ordinary or mighty means of Christ's government or administration of his Kingdom.  
These things being thus, The Ministers of the Gospel are to teach the people the main grounds and chief heads of Christian Religion, even all things necessary to salvation in respect of faith and manners, otherwise they stand guilty of the blood of souls. They are to teach them also what the Lord hath instituted for the well-ordering of his house, but in season, order, and as they are able to bear it. It is not for men to set up the roof, before they have laid the foundation. Experience for many years hath taught us, that divers who have much busied themselves in the doctrine of Church-government, have been unable to make 
f Some deny the use of excommunication among the Jews. Bills. perpet. Ch. gov. c. 4. The Scribes and Pharises (you will say) did in Christ's time excommunicate, and thrust out such as they thought offenders, out of their Synagogues: But the Pharises never learned that out of Moses. A separation of the Leper from the company of men, and of unclean for coming near holy places or things, Moses prescribeth, but not excommunication, that I remember, etc. Aliens were not admitted to be of the number of the Lords people; and any uncleanness of the flesh did separate for a season, the Jews themselves from approaching near to the Congregation or Tabernacle of God: but neither of these is excommunication, etc. So in the use of excommunication in the Christian Church, etc. and many such like.  use of that which they have learned from others. If I should bring yourself for instance, who have received many good truths from the writings of the Nonconformists, but miserably pervert them to your own hurt, the disturbance of God's Church; scandal of the Gospel, and the strengthening of such as are turned aside into dangerous errors; I should not much miss the mark, and you have more cause to take heed than to be offended. Also godly men, who follow the truth in love, may be of different minds in these things, and for men to hid that from the people, whereof they are not persuaded that it is the truth of God, is not the note of a false Prophet.  
Moreover, Those things which you call main truths, concerning the external government of Christ's visible Church, may justly be questioned, whether they be truths at all. If I may conjecture by your writings, the main truths you intent are such as these; That power of Church-government is absolutely necessary to the being of a Church; That all stinted or set-formes of prayer or Liturgy, are forged or devised worship; That there is no lawful Minister, who is not chosen, called, or ordained by that particular Congregation, where he is to administer; That the Minister of one congregation may perform no ministerial act in another; That the power of Government is in the community of the faithful, and from them derived unto the Pastors, Teachers, or Elders, etc. These and the like are the main truths in your esteem, which I conceive have no bottoming in the holy Scripture. And if the Nonconformists, or some other, should ask of you this Question, whether to teach such points as main truths necessary to salvation, and to condemn all Churches who conform not to your platform, as false and Antichristian, and their worship as false and idolatrous; and whether to wrest and abuse Scriptures, and pervert Authors to that purpose, make you not a false Prophet, consider advisedly what ound and satisfying answer you could return.    

SECT. III.  
BEfore ●e proceed to another point, 
Can. Neces. of Separate. p. 159, 160.  we may here frame this argument; If the professors of the Gospel in England, have not among them a true Church-government, but are under that which came from the great Antichrist, then are they bound to set up the ordinance of God, and practise it, no withstanding the Magistrate do forbid the said practice. But the professors of the Gospel in England, have not among their a true Church-government, but are under, etc. Therefore they are bound to set up the ordinance of God and to practise it, notwithstanding the Magistrate doth forbid the said practice. These are both their own. positions, and so sound proved; that no man living is able to confute theus.  

ANSWER.  
IF your meaning be as the ordinary signification of the words import, it is not to the purpose, for it is one thing in our own persons to practice according to the ordinance of Christ, another, to separate from that society, which doth not practice in all things according to the institution of our Saviour. But you give cause to think, that by these words (erecting this power, and exercising the same among them) you mean, that they are to separate and draw themselves into such a society, where they may exercise that power. For thus you writ; I do not mean, 
Can. Neces. of Separate. pag. 155.  that any private person should meddle with the affairs of the Realm, but that every one in his own person, do place himself about the throne of God, leaving the abuses of the public State●, to be reform by such as have a calling thereto. And if this be your mind in that clause, you greatly wrong the Nonconformists, and reformed Churches, in charging them with this position. For it is their direct assertion to the contrary, that for want of orderly administration of discipline, Christians are not to separate from the true and sound Churches of Jesus Christ. Your phrase likewise of placing themselves about the throne of God, is in no sort approved of them, or of the truth itself: As if none were placed about the throne of God, or God did not graciously vouchsafe his presence unto, or reign over any assembly, wherein discipline is not rightly and orderly in all points administered.  
But here it must be noted, that the power of government must be considered, either in respect of the substance of it, or the orderly manner of administration, as was said before. And a thing or office is called Antichristian in two respects. First, as whatsoever is not of Christ is Antichristian; in which sense, they of the Separation call all stinted Liturgies Antichristian. Secondly, as that which is derived from the authority and headship of the great Antichrist of Rome, and dependeth upon him as his own institution, is Antichristian. And to apply these things to the purpose; if we take the word Antichristian, in the first signification, the true Church of God may be under Antichristian government, in respect of the manner of dispensation of the censures, that is, the dispensation of the censures may be committed to such persons as are not instituted, approved, and set apart of Christ for that purpose, and in such manner. As if it be committed to an usurped power over the Brethren, or to some few of many, or to such as be ignorant, prophant, or the like.  
It is true, the light hath no fellowship with darkness, nor truth with falsehood: but in this life light in men is miked with darkness, and the best Christians infected with errors of Antichristianisme. In many of the Martyrs of Jesus Christ, both before & since the revelation of Antichrist, their knowledge was mingled with more darkness, and their Christianity with more antichristianism, if you will so call it, than can be found in our Church and Ministry. 
Jos. 5.7.9. See jun. annot.  It is true, the faithful must labour every one in his place to bring in the ordinances of God, and reform abuses; but if they cannot prevail, they must not cut themselves off from the body, and excommunicate the society. For if the Church may want, yea, neglect the use of the Sacraments for a time, and yet continue the true 
g Hieron. in Tit. 1. Amb. in 1 Tim. 5. Bills. perpet. c. 11. Gratian. Decret. cap. 15. qu. 7. ca 2.5, 6, 7. Concil. Turon. 2. c. 7. Nic. Abbas, Panor. in decret. Gregor. 9 de consuetud. cap. 4. Olim presbyteri in communi regebant ecclesiam, & ordinabant Sacerdotes. Cypr. epist. 6. or lib. 3. epist. 10. & lib. 1. epist. 9 Concil. Carthag. 4. ca 23. Tho. 1. 〈◊〉 qu. 71. art. 5. ad tertium. Bonav. in 1 sent. didst. 48. art. 2. qu. 1. in resol. Scor. in 3 sent. didst. 9 qu. unica n. 4.  Church of God, than it may want the orderly use of discipline in respect of the officers, by whom, and the manner how it should be duly exercised. For the political guiding of a Church by the censuring discipline, is not to be compared to the want & neglect of the Seals. If the Church shall think good to keep in a member, which some private man judgeth worthy to be excommunicated, must he cut off himself, or cast out the offender contrary to the order. If the Power of government be exercised by the whole body of the Society, which I conceive to belong only to the College Ecclesiastical, must I needs separate from them as no Church of Christ?  
Affirmative precepts bind perpetually, but not to all times; to disposition and readiness always, but to practice, only, when time, place, and opportunity occurreth. For example, a man is ever obliged to think the truth, if he know it, but not either to profess or speak the truth at all times. Of affirmative duties, some are absolutely necessary in men of age and discretion, without which there can be no salvation, as belief in Christ, and repentance from dead works. Others are necessary when God giveth 
h Neither do I know what warrant any ordinary Minister hath by God's word in such a case, so to draw any such Church or people to his private ministry, that thereby they should hazard their outward state & quiet in the Commonwealth where they live, when in some competent measure, they may publicly with the grace and the favour of the Magistrate, enjoy the ordinary means of their salvation. Vnreasona. etc. pag. 61. Aug. epist. contr. Parm. lib. 3. cap. 2. Bezacontr. Eras. de Excom. Feild of the Ch●. lib. 1. cap. 17. Eccl. Lugdun. lib. de tenenda verit. script: post medium in Biblioth. patr. tom. 4. par. 2. edit. 4.  opportunity, and calleth a man forth thereunto; as profession of the faith, by joining ourselves to the Church of God, and partaking of the Sacraments. Others oblige in a time free, which do not oblige in a time not free, as when urgent necessity, the circumstance of time and place, the state and condition of things do restrain and keep bacl. As the exercise of Ecclesiastical discipline against open obstinâte offenders, is an affirmative duty, imposed by divine law upon the Governors of the Church, or (as you say) upon the whole Society. But it lieth not upon this or that particular member to do it, or separate, when others be remiss, and either be not persuaded of, or do neglect their duty, and will not be drawn unto it. They be not of the lowest rank who think it may and aught to be forborn, when it cannot be used without open and unavoidable schism. When a doctrinal error of less importance and small evil consequence prevaileth in a Church, by public authority, it is not the duty of a private Teacher publicly to strive against it, to manifest & apparent schisms, but rather in a mild and peaceable manner to cure them, and peaceably to tolerate some things, when the good of God's Church doth call for and require it. Who doth not calmly and peaceably moderate that which he thinketh, but is ready incontinent to contentions, dissensions, and scandals, although he have not an heretical sense, most certainly he hath an heretical mind. And though the 
i The Apostleanever erected & planted public Churches and Ministers in the face of the Magistrate, whether they would or no, or in despite of them. But such in respect of the eye of the Magistrate, were as private as might be. unreasonableness of Separate. pag. 59  Government of the Church dependeth upon the ordinance of God, yet it is not for every particular and private man to set up that order in societies, professing the faith publicly and established by Law, against the mind and pleasure of the Christian Magistrate. And this the Nor●●●formists do both teach and practice, and therefore they have humbly sued for reformation, but never either practised or approved your separation. That which you cite out of the Harmony of confessions, as if the reformed Churches did allow or teach what you practice, I will set down, and leave it to every man to judge of your fidelity. The Church 
k Gallic. confessed. art. 26. None but Princes can give freedom and protection to these spiritual functions and actions. Bilson. Christian part 2. pag. 309.  Gallican saith thus; Credimus igitur nemi●●● licer●, seize catibus subducer●, & in seipso aequiescere, sed patius 〈◊〉 s●●●il tuendam & conservandam esse Ecclesiae unitatem, sese communi institutioni & jugo Christi subijciendo, ubjcunque Deus ver●●n illam disaiplinam Ecclesiastio●n constistuerit, etiamsi Magistratuum edicta reclament, à quo oxdi●● quicubque seipsos sei●●gunt) ordinationi Dei resistant. Psal. 5. & 42. Ephes. 4.11. Act. 4.19. & 5.29. Heb. 10.25. And the 
l Belgic. confessart. 28. Without the help of Princes, though the faith and Canons of Christ's Church may be privately professed and observed of such as be willing, yet can they not be generally planted, or settled in any kingdom, nor urged by public Laws & external punishments on such as refuse, but by their consents that bear the sword. Bills. ibid. pag. 327. Id. part 3. pag. 296. If you will have the assistance of the Magistrates sword to settle the truth and prohibits error, and by wholesome punishments to prevent the disorder of all degrees, that authority lieth only in the Prince.  Belgic thus; Credimus qued cum sacer hic caetus & congregatio, sit corum qui servari debent, & salus nulla sit extra eam: neminem (cujuscunque dignitatis aut nomini● is fuerit) seize ab ea-subducere aut segregari debere, ut sua tantu● consu●tudine contentus solus, ac separatim vivat. Sed con●●a ●●●es as singulos teneri huic caetui se adjungere, & Ecclesiae unitatem sollicitè conservare, seque illius tum doctrinae tum disciplinae subjicere, collum denique Christi jugo sponte submittere, & tanquan● communia ejusdem corporis membra adificationi fratrum inservire, prout Deus unicuique sua dona fuerit largitus. Porro ut haec melius observentur, omnium fidelium partes sunt, sese juxta Dei verbum ab eis omnibus disjungere, qui sunt extra ecclesiam constituti: huicque fidelium caetui ac congregationi; seize adjungere, ubicunque illam Deus constituerit: et si id contraria principum vel Magistratuum edicta prohibeant, indicta etiam in eos capitis & mortis corporcae poenâ, qui id fecerint. Quicunque igitur à vera illa Ecclesia recedunt, aut sese illi aggregare recusant, apertè Dei mandato repugnant. Thus the Conclusion.     

CHAP. IU.  

SECT. I.  
ALL true visible Churches gathered and planted according to God's Word, 
Can. Neces. of Separate. pag. 173.  consisted in their constitution of Saints only: But the Churches of England after Popery were not so constituted. For the greatest number of them were profane people, even mockers and contemners of Religion, as Atheists, Idolaters, Sorcerers, Blasphemers, and all sorts of miscreants and wicked livers. Therefore the Churches of England are not true visible Churches. There is never a part of this argument they can deny, unless they will let fall their own principles. For the Assumption I make no question, but it will pass without exception, and none of them will have the face to oppose it, considering how generally the thing hath been affirmed, and still is upon all occasions both in word and writing. Now that the proposition may appear as true also, I will prove the same; first, by Scriptures; secondly, by reason; thirdly, by the testimonies of the learned.  

ANSWER.  
IF both parts of this Argument be Nonconformists principles, why do you labour to prove the proposition true, more than the assumption? If it had been a confessed principle, why do you not fight against them with their own weapons, as you pretend to do throughout your Book. He is very dull, that doth not smell somewhat herein. But if it so please you, The proposition is the Nonconformists, and it is not. For if this be the meaning thereof, That all true Churches should consist of visible Saints, not only in their first gathering, planting, and constitution, but also in their after continuance and propagations, the Nonconformists do acknowledge it; for when sin and wickedness springeth or groweth in the Church, the ordinance of God is violated. But if this be the meaning; That the society which consisteth not of Saints only, is not the true Church of Jesus Christ, that the Nonconformists utterly deny. Also it is one thing to say, The 
m Hieron. Prefer: lib. 2. in Epist. ad Galat. Rursus facilitatis & superbiae arguunturs Id. ad princ. Marcelle. Epitaph. Difficile est in maledicâ civitate, non aliquam sinistri rumoris fabulam contrabere. Id. in Praefat. in lib. Dydimini. Sp. Sa. Cum Babylone versarer, & purpuratae meritricis essem colon●, etc.  Church is not planted and gathered in all things according to God's Word; another to say it is no Church at all, which is not planted and gathered in all things agreeable to the Word of God. If then the meaning of the proposition be this; That all true Churches planted and gathered according to God's Word, consisted of Saints only, because the ordinance of God is violated, and his house polluted; 〈◊〉 notorious offenders are received or tolerated; the No●conformists will acknowledge it: But if you understand it thus; That it is no true Church at all, which consisteth not of Saints only, because it is not gathered, planted, constituted, reform in all things agreeable to the Word of God, they never received it. If you could not discern this in their writings, you were very blind and partial. If you did discern it and yet would pass it over, that you might with some colour traduce them as going contrary to their own principles, or beguile others with an aequivocation, where was your sincerity? The Nonconformists will not deny, but some things in the gathering and planting, or rather the refining and government of the Church of England was and is done amiss, not agreeable to the Word of God, which they hearty desire and labour might be reform; but for things done amiss, they dare not condemn the Church, deny the grace of God, separate from her communion, or approve them that do it. It may be questioned also, whether you dare not put a trick upon your Reader in the phrase, gathered and planted, as if a church in continuance might consist of such as are not Saint●; but if it be not gathered of such only at the first, it is no Church. If this be your close intendment, the proposition is fare from truth, the mind of the Nonconformists, and the matter in hand: for in the reformation a new Church was not planted, but a corrupt Church refined or purified. And thus I might pass over that which followeth in your next Section, because every man may easily perceive it reacheth not to the point in hand, but that you should not complain as if your reasons were neglected, I will follow you therein.    

SECT. II.  
IF we take a strict view of all the Churches which the Lord hath constituted since the beginning of the world, 
Can. Neces. of Separate. pag, 174.  it will appear, that at the orderly gathering and planting, the members of them were all holy and good. I here intent of visible and external holiness, and so fare as me● may judge, and not of that which is within, and hid from us. For I doubt not, but in God's sight the purest Congregation on earth, might consist at first of good and bad, and yet of men, every person to be judged truly faithful and sanctified, until any one by his iniquity (outwardly committed) appeared otherwise. Not to speak of the Church of the Angels, 
Dr. Field of the Church, p. 3, 4. etc. 2 Pet. 2.4. jude 6. Eccl. 7.29.  which God created in heaven, and were all good and holy, till some by transgression fell away. Neither of it in Paradise, consisting of two persons, and both true believers. After the fall the constitution of the first, Church, in the covenant of grace, was of good matters, and such was the Lord care to have the purity of it still preserved, that he th●●●st out Cain from the same, for the great wickedness which he fell into. The Lord gave not Circumcision to Abraham, 
Gen. 12.1. & 17. Rom. 4.11.10.15.19. 2 Pet. 1.4. Psal. 45.11. Revel. 18.4. 2 Cor. 6.  the seal of the righteousinesse of faith, until he left his Father's house, and that idolatrous place wherein he had lived; which signifieth to us, that all men must necessarily come out of the world, and from worldly corruptions, or else they are uncapable to have a Church covenant in Christ, confirmed unto them of Cod. As for the visible Churches planted by the Apostles, it is evident, that in their collection, they consisted of such and none other, as were called by the Gospel, confessed their sins, believed, walked in the spirit, and separated themselves from the false state, in which they stood members before. Such a beginning had the Congregations in Rome, Corinth, Galatia, Ephesus, Philippi, Colosse, Thessalonica, etc. And who dares affirm, that there was one man or woman admitted a member at the constitution of any of these churches, which had been known to be an ill liver, and did not first manifest sound repentance thereof.  

ANSWER.  
When you speak of visible Churches, and visible and external holiness, so fare as men can judge, it is to small purpose to mention the Church of Angels in heaven. For the Church whereof you entreat, is a society of men, holy in profession, and outward conformity, but not evermore in truth, whereas the society of Angels (if it be comprehended under the Church) is invisible and perfectly holy. I speak of them as they were by creation, and of as many as stood in their integrity, who only are to be understood by that title.  
It is to as little purpose, to speak of the Church in Paradise in the state of innocency: For the Church understood in this present business, consists of men considered in the estate, which they now have promised by God being made man: or man fallen by sin and restored by Christ, who too●e them by the hand and lifted them up. That is properly the Church, which was gathered after man fallen, and is restored in Christ, which as it is visible consisteth of good and bad, as you say. But the Church in the state of innocency, consisted of such only as were created of God, perfectly holy, as befitted such creatures, until by transgression they fell from their integrity. The state of the Church which we must inquire into, is that which God hath gathered, planted, constituted, preserved, continued and propagated since the fall of man.  
After the Fall, God entered into Covenant with our first Parents, Adam and Eve, who received the promise, and were partakers of the good things promised. Their seed also was within the Covenant, until they did discommon themselves; and so Cain and Abel as members of the visible Church offered Sacrifice: In phrase of Scripture therefore Cain was a Saint in profession; but whether he had given testimony of sound and true holiness, so fare as man could judge, is more than can be proved. 
1 joh. 3.12. jude 11 verse.  The Scripture saith plainly, He was of that wicked one, and therefore slew his brother. And if no man suddenly become desperately wicked, it is probable Cain had given no great fignes of piety in former times. Afterwards many and great corruptions came into the Church, when the sons of God took unto them wives of the daughters of men, 
Gen. 6.2. See Rivet. in Gen. exercitat. 50.  whom they would: and it is strange to imagine all the members of the visible Church in those times to be visible Saints in conformity, 
Gen. 9.24, 25.  so fare as man can judge. The Church of God continued in the family of Noah, whereof Cham remained a member, after the sentence denounced against Canaan: In this Church therefore all visible members, were not visible Saints, so fare as man can judge. 
Gen, 10.1, 2, etc.  The world after the Deluge was replenished by the sons of Noah, and the Church of God was conserved in their families, perhaps in the family of Cham, and Canaan his youngest son, at least for a time. 
● Gen. 14.18. Heb. 7.6.  For it is probable that Melchizede●, King of Salem, was some King of Canaan in stock diver from the Hebi●wes, of the posterity of Cannon, who planted in those parts, whom God did preserve in the midst of an ungodly people. And the promise of God made to the posterity of Sh●●, and so of Abraham; did not exclude all other familie● from communion of piety and godliness. 
o 
Jun: annot. in Gen. 14.18. Calvin in loc. Mercer. in loc. Nulla prorsus ratione nituntur, qui Semil cum Melchilsedeco confundunt. & probabilissinum est, id à Iudaeis fuisse ex●●gitatum, quia non aequo animo ferebant, hominem alienigenam autori gentis suae aliqua in re fuisse praelatum. Rivet. in Gen. exercit. 77. 〈…〉 Gen. 10.16. Gen. 14.24. v. 13. Gen. 20.5. 9, 10.14, 15.  
Apparet autem in responsione Abimelechi, non fuisse hominem impium, vel ō● cognition. Dei destitutum. Nam Deum loquentem agnoscit, etc. Rivet. in Gen. exercit. 100, 101. See Psal. 18.21.25. 2 Sam. 22.21. Psal. 73.13. Rom. 4.11. Gen. 17.12, 13.23. Rivet. in Gen. 17. Chamier. panstrat. tom. 4. lib, 5. cap. 11.   At that time we may well 〈◊〉 were some others in the Land of Canaan, who did 〈◊〉 wou●d worship the 〈◊〉 Goth. For not 〈◊〉 mention A●er, Eskel, and 〈…〉 with Abrah●●, at that time a 〈◊〉 in the La●●d, with whom they 〈◊〉 not have 〈◊〉 covenant, it is probable, if they had been gross Idolaters, without all knownledge of the true religion; 〈◊〉 King of 〈…〉 his fault) carried himself 〈…〉 business of Abraham, as a man not altogether destitute of the true stare of God.  
That the true Religion was maintained in the family of Sh●●, is acknowledged by all sorts, but in that family it was greatly corrupted: for the Scripture testifieth, that 〈◊〉 the father of Abraham, and the father of Nachor, and Abraham himself before his calling served other Gods. J●sh. 24.2. The Church of God did spread in the family of Abraham; to whom God gave Circumcision, as the seal of the righteousness of faith: but the members thereof, were as well they that were bought with his money, as they that were borne in his house. For so we read that God commanded, and Abraham took Ishmael his son, and all that were borne in his house, and all that were bought with his money, that is; every man child among the men of Abraham's house, and he circumcised the foreskin of their flesh. Not only Abraham and his seed, but all that lawfully appertained unto him, and were in his power, did partake of the seal of the covenant, as such as formerly had been, or now were received into covenant. And by analogy we may gather, that not only the children of believing parents, but of Infidels, if they come lawfully into the power and hand of Christians to be trained and brought up by them in the Christian faith, aught to be admitted into Baptism. Now in what sense, Ishmael and some others in Abraham's family might be esteemed holy, 〈◊〉 others judge. Esau was a member of Isaac's family, which was the visible Church of God in those times, 
Gen. 25.31, 32, 33. Heb. 12.19.  after that he had sold sold his birth right for a ●esse of pottage, and many other ways had discovered himself so to walk, as a man could hardly judge him to be truly holy. 
Gen. 35.22. & 49.3, 4, 5, 6, 7. & 34.25. & 38.25, 26.  The family of Jacob was received into covenant, according to the pleasure and dispensation of God, and all his sons were members of the visible Church, when foul offences were amongst them unrepented of. 
Gen. ●7. 2. Sept. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. detr●●● eos crimine malo.  Not to mention the facts of Reuben, Simon, and Levi, and J●dah, it is noted of the sons of Zilpah and ●ilkah, that they run into slander, whereof we cannot think they repeated suddenly. Joseph his Brethren conceived such hatred against him, that they first conspired to kill him, but changing their minds therein, they sold him unto the Is●elites. The whole body of Israel was a peculiar people, 
Leu. 20.24. Sept. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉.  of whom every one was by the word of God separated into the covenant of mercy: and if the whole Nation was the people of God, every particular person in that Nation did stand under the same relation. But what the state and condition of that people was when they were admitted into Church covenant, we may learn from the holy Scripture.  
When I passed by thee I saw thee polluted in thine own blood, 
Ezek. 16.6.8.  and I said unto thee when thou wast in thy blood, Thou shalt live; even when thou wast in thy blood I said unto thee, Thou shalt live. Now when I passed by thee, and looked upon thee behold, thy time was as the time of love, and I spread my skirts over thee, and covered thy filthiness: yea, I swore unto thee, and entered into covenant with thee, 
1 Reg. 8.53. Sept. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉.  saith the Lord God, and thou becamest 〈◊〉. When God brought Israel out of Egypt by the hand of Moses his servant, he separated them to himself, from among all the people of the earth, 
Act. 7.38.  for an inheritance: and every singular person in that huge multitude was a visible, member of that Church, 
Exod. 32.8, 9.22. Deut. 4.3. & 9.7, 8. Psal. 106.7.13, 14.19, 2●. 28. Num. 14.22. Act. 7.39, 40, 41, 42. Amos. 5.25, 26. Josh. 5.7, 8, 9 Deut. 29.4.  and all of them by profession Saints or holy, the flock of God. But oftentimes they sinned and rebelled against the Lord, being a stubborn and stiffnecked, people, uncircumcised in heart, unbelieving, forgetful of God's works, despising his covenant, idolatrous, which had neither eyes to see, nor ears to hear, nor an heart to under stand. And what probability is there, that this whole people was truly holy in the judgement of charity, or so fa●re as man can judge, or that they ceased to be the Church of God; when they had grossly corrupted their ways? If the true Church be gathered of Saines only (externally and so 〈◊〉 as man 〈◊〉 judge) and of them alone framed, at of the subject 〈◊〉: which is only true, whilst it 〈…〉 such, and false when it degenerated from this dispositions, and so as 〈◊〉 and p●●trified stuff to 〈◊〉 cast out of the 〈◊〉 let it be considered how the Congregation in the Wilderness could be the true Church of God, which so oft, 〈◊〉, 
Act. 7.38.  and in many particular sinned against the Lord. It is more true, 
Exod. 24.3.7.  the Church and every member thereof outred into Covenant, either expressly or implicitly to take God for their God, and to keep the words of the Covenant, and do them: to seek the Lord with all their hearts, and to walk before him in truth and uprightness. 
Deut. 29.4.  But Moses saith of them that entered into Covenant, that they had not eyes to see, nor ears to hear, nor an heart to understand, and with many of them God was displeased, because they obeyed not his v●●y●e. 
Deut. 29.10, 11, 12.  Ye stared this day all of you (saith Moses) before the Lord your God, your Captains of Tribes, your Elixirs, and your Officers, with all the men of Israel: your little ones, your ●ives, and thy stranger that is in thy Ca●p; from the 〈◊〉 of thy wo●d, to the 〈◊〉 of thy water, That thou should 〈◊〉 ●nto the Covetant 〈◊〉 the Lord thy God, etc. But he testifieth against them also, 
Deut. 32.5, 6.15, 16.  that they had corrupted themselves, that their spot was not the spot of his children; that they were a froward and perverse generation, a foolish people, and ●●wis●, who forsook God that 〈◊〉 them, and regarded not the strong God of their salvation. 
Iosh. 5.5, 6, 7.  Joshua circumcised all the people which were borne in the Wilderness (for all that time that Sacrament was neglected) and his fact is approved. But we read not of any inquiry that was made of all that great multitude, what work of grace God had wrought in every man's soul, and it is very improbable, that there was not one who did not give good hope of sound and true cleaving unto the Lord with all his heart. 
Psal. 78.55, 56, 57  When God had cast out the Heathen before them, and caused them to fall to the lot of his inheritance, and made the Tribes of Israel to dwell in their Tabernacles, they tempted and provoked the most high God, and kept not his testimonies, but turned bacl and dealt falsely like their Fathers. they turned like a deceitful Bow.  
Israel then was a chosen people, an holy nation, 
Deut. 14.23. & 29, 10, 11, 12. Rom. 3.2. & 9.4. Act. 3.25. Deut. 32.5, 6. Isa. 1.1, 2, 3, 4.10.  the peculiar people of God, his treasure of delight or choice jewels; a people in Covenant; the children of the Prophets, and of the Covenant; and yet a stiffnecked people, corrupters, set on mischief, foolish and unwise. The Lord protesteth that Israel did rebel against him, that they did not understand but were a most sinful Nation, ye● 〈…〉 and Gomor●ah, yet he calleth them his people and 〈…〉 passing Socleome in iniquity, 
Ezek. 16.47, 48, 49.51. Lam. 4.6.22. Isa. 5.1, 2, 3.5. jere. 2.21. Ios. 24.1.14, 15.23, 24, 25. judg. 2.8.11. & 3.9.15. & 6.7. & 10.10.16.17. 1 Sam. 7.2, 3, 4. 1 Chron. 13.2. etc. 2 Chron. 15.12. 2 Reg. 11.17. 2 Chron. 25.16. 2 Reg. 23.3, 2 Chron. 34.31. Neh. 10.29, 30.  and yet the daughter of his people, and the daughter of Zion, his pleasans plant, and a noble Vine.  
We read oftentimes that Israel after some grievous fall and requited, renewed their covenant to walk with God; and serve him only, and to obey his ●oyce; 〈…〉 the days of Joshu●, Judges, Samuel, David, Aso, Ju●sh, Josiah, Nehemi●h, etc. But herein particular scrutiny was not made, what work of grace God had wrought in the hearts of particular persons, 〈◊〉 the confession of fin, and profession of obedience was renewed. And if the look into the state of 〈…〉 all ages of that Church, and particularly under these religious and godly Princes, by whose authority the Covenant was renewed, it will easily appear, many did but flatter with their ●ips, neither was their heart steadfast in the covenant. The Prophets every where cry out against the great iniquity of the Princes, Priests, and people, their idolatry, injustice, oppression, contempt of the Word, impenitency, st●bornnesse, so that it is superfluous diligence, to refer to the several passages which mention these things.  
When John the Baptist began to preach the Gospel, 
Matth. 3.5, 6.  and gather a new people for Christ, he admitted none to Baptism but upon confession of their sins, which was both a renouncing of them, and a promising of amendment of life. But we find not that he repulsed any that voluntarily submitted themselves, nor took time for trial, whether they made nonfession in truth of heart, or no. It appeareth many ways, that when the Apostles planted Churches, 
Act. 2.38. & 8.37. & 19, 17, 18, 19  the people whom they received did enter into Covenant with God: But it is diligehtly to be observed, whom they did receive upon confession of sins and profession of faith, and whom they suffered after they were received. Simon Mag●s. believed and was baptised, 
Act. 8.13. 1 Cor. 3.1, 2, 3. & 15.10.11. etc. Gal. 3.1. Phil. 2.21. jude 12 verse. jac. 2.1, 2, 3. Rev. 2.14.20, etc.  who not long after offered money that he might obtain the gifts of the holy Ghost. In Corinth Galatina and other Churches, many were admitted into the society, who in short time turned aside both in practice and opinion, as to deny the resurrection, and join the ceremonies of the Law with Christ in the point of justification, and many other abuses: which is a great presumption, they gave no sure testimony of any sound work of grace in their souls, when first entertained into fellowship. And though the Apostles required a confession of faith, and profession of obedience of them that joined in Christian society, yet they tolerated great abuses in private persons, which they could not redress. For without question they condemned the having of many wives at once in all men, but when that custom at least secret and indirect, 
1 Tim. 3.2.12. Tit. 1.6. Calvin in 1 Tim. 3.2.  prevailed among the Jews and Gentiles both in those times, they give no 
p Dan. in loc. Rivet. cathol. orthod: tract. 2. qu. 24. sect. 6.7. Chrysost. in epist. 1. ad Tim. hom. 10. & in epist. ad Tit. hom. 2. Hieron. in epist. 1. ad Tim. ca 3. catarrh. cathol. advers. error. Cajet. err. 99 Jewel def. of apel. par. 2. cap. 8. Diu. 1. pag. 179. 1 Tim. 1.20. 1 Cor. 5.7.13. Rev. 2.5.16. & 3.16.  Commandment that each believer having two wives, should be cast out of the society, but only that he should not be chosen into the place of a Bishop or Deacon. Great and manifold abuses crept into the Churches, even whilst the Apostles lived, and shortly after they were planted, and some of those were reprehended only, calling the Churches to reformation and amendment; the gross, obstinate, and most abominable transgressors, either they gave up to Satan, or gave commandment to the Churches that they should cast them out: but evermore, with such mildness and moderation, as it is most evident, they forbore to pluck up the tares, lest they should pluck up the good corn also. It is also manifest, they threaten some Churches with God's displeasure, as that he would remove his Candlestick, cast them into the bed of sickness, spew them out of his mouth, unless they repent: but they dischurch them not, because of the disorders committed by some, tolerated by others, nor yet did they command or counsel the godly in those societies to separate from the ordinances of Religion, but to keep themselves pure.  
The History of the Gospel in the New Testament containeth but a short time, viz. from the time wherein John the Baptist began to preach, to the end of the acts and writings of the Apostles, which is not full fourscore years: so that we cannot show the repetition of the Covenant from time to time, or what patience was showed in tolerating abuses, or when men were adjudged obstinate, or what repentance and profession was required in general abuses or revolts; but by that which is said, we may discern who in phrase of Scripture are called Saints, and holy, faithful, and called, and chosen; even, all and every member of the commonwealth of Israel, and Christian Churches, until they were cut off, or cast out, though they lived not according to their profession, but were stiffnecked, scandalous, profane.  
The practice of the Church according to the example of the Apostles in 
q Concil. Laodicen. 14.46. Hilar. ad constant. lib. 2. imperf. I cannot receive any man, but him that is willing: I cannot give care, but to him that entreateth a I cannot sign any, but him that professeth. Raban. de instit. cleric. lib. 1. cap. 25.27. Justine Martyr. apol. 2.  receiving Heathens and them that were without into society was this. First, They were taught in the principles of Religion, and then the doctrine of Christ being received, profession made, with promise to renounce the world, the flesh, and the Devil, they were baptised. Justine sometime an Heathen Philosopher, but after a famous Martyr of Christ, in his second Apology for Christians, reporteth. That if any Heathen man desired to be received into the fellowship of the Church, he was first 
r Concil. Agathens. ca 25. judaei quorum perfidia frequenter ad vomitum redit, si ad legem catholicam venire voluerint, octo menses inter catechumenos Ecclesiae limen introeant, & si pura fide no scuntur venire, tum demum, etc. Socrat. lib. 7. hist. cap. 30. Hieron. ad Pammach. Tert. de Baptism. Tert. de prescript. ca 14. & in apolog. ca 47. Ruff. in symbol. Math. 28.19. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. Basil. count. Eunom. l. 3. Our Baptism is according to the tradition of the Lord, In the name of the Father, the Son, and the holy Ghost.  catechised in the principles of Religion, & then hearing further the word of God, as it were, the Conditions of the Covenant of grace; afterwards came into the face of the Congregation, and confessed that he did believe, and promised that he would obey the word of God; whereupon he was baptised, and received into the fellowship of the Church. And that this order might be the better observed, the Church appointed certain times, and in some places a longer space, at other times, and in other places a shorter time, for catechising of Heathen, before they were baptised. Socrates writeth that when the Burgonians desired to be initiated into the number of Christian people, after they had been catechised seven days, they were baptised the eighth. Hierome saith, the custom in his days was to catechise them forty days, and then to baptise them. Tertullian witnesseth, that there were two times in the year, Easter and Whitsuntide, especially appointed by the Church for Baptism; and strangers from the Covenant were instructed in the principles of Religion, all the rest of the year, against these two times.  
The profession at first required of all that were received to Baptism, was that they believed in the Father, Son, and holy Ghost. The Creed is honoured of the Ancients with glorious titles, as the rule of faith, the Sum of faith, the body of faith, the persuasion of faith. But by the Creed, they understand the Rule of truth, and law of faith, and institution of Christ, which was then given, when he was about to ascend into heaven, and commanded his Disciples, saying, Go and teach all Nations, Baptising them into the name of the Father, Son, and holy Ghost. Regulam fidei per Baptismum accipimus. Iren. lib. 1. cap. 2. Per ipsam Baptismi traditionem habemus confessionem; Basil. despir. fanct. cap. 10. Regula quidem fidei, una omnino est, sola immobilis, & irreformabilis, 
Socrat. Hist. lib. 1. ca 5. Niceph. lib. 8. ca 17. Hist. Trip. lib. 2. ca 9  credendi sc, in unicum Deum omnipotentem, mundi conditores, & filium ejus Jesum, etc. Tertul. de veland. virgin. The expositions of the Creed, which are found in the ancient Fathers, Martial, Ignatius, Justine, Jreneus, Tertullian, Origen, de rect. fid. dialog. princ. Novatian, lib. de Trin. 3. and others of that age, go not beyond the Trinity, within which bounds the Nicene Creed is terminated, as it is set down in History. Arius and Euzonius conclude their confession of faith thus; 
Socrat. Hist. lib. 2. cap. 7. & lib. 1. cap. 19  Sicut Dominus noster cùm Discipules suos ad praedicandum mitteret, etc. This faith we received from the Gospel, the Lord himself saying to his Disciples, Go teach all Nations, etc. 
Erasm. ad censur. facult. Theolog. Parisien. tit. 11.  Erasmus showeth how the Creed was increased by the addition of divers Articles, against the heresies that did arise, and though for substance it was the very same every where, yet in some places, it received more enlargement then in others. The western Churches, herein applied themselves to the capacities of the meaner so●t, more than the Eastern did, using in their Baptism, that shorter form of confession commonly called the Apostles Creed, which in more ancient times, was briefer also than now it is; as we may easily perceive by comparing the symbol recited by Marcellus Anciranus (in the profession of the faith, 
Apud. Epiphan. in haeres. 72.  which he delivered to Pope Julius) with the expositions of the Apostles Creed, written by the Latin Doctors. Wherein the mention of the Father's being maker of heaven and earth, the Son's death and descending into hell, and the communion of Saints is wholly omitted. The Creed which the Eastern Churches used in Baptism, was larger than this, being either the same, 
Euseb. epist. apud Socrat. lib 1. ca 5. et 8. Theodor. lib. 8. ca 12.  or very little different from that which we commonly call the Nicene Creed, because the greatest part of it was repeated and confirmed in the first general council held at Nice, where the first draught thereof was presented to the Synod, by Eusebius Bishop of Caesarea, with this Preamble, As we have received from the Bishops that were before us, both at our first catechising, and when we received Baptism, and as we have learned from the holy Scriptures, and as we have both believed and taught, when we entered into the Ministry, and in our Bishopric itself. So believing at this present also, we declare this our faith unto you. To this the Nicene Fathers added a more clear explication of the deity of the Son (against the Arrian Heresy, wherewith the Church was troubled) professing him to be begotten not made, 
Concil. Constan. ap. Theoder. lib. 5. c. 9  and to be of one substance with the Father. The second general Council which was assembled fifty-six years after at Constantinople, approving this confession of the faith, as most ancient, and agreeable to Baptism, enlarged it somewhat in the Article that concerned the Holy Ghost especially, which at that time was most oppugned by the Macedonian Heretics. 
Epipha. in 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. pag. 518. edit. Gr. Cassian. de incarn. verb. lib. 5.  And whereas the Nicene confession proceeded no further than to the belief, which we have in the Holy Trinity, the Fathers of the Constantinople made it up, by adding that which was commonly professed, touching the catholic Church, and the privileges belonging thereunto. Epiphanius repeating this Creed at large, affirmeth it to have been delivered unto the Church by the Apostles. Cassianus avoucheth as much, where he urgeth this against Nestorius, as the Creed anciently received in the Church of Antioch, from whence he came. The Roman Church after the days of Charles the Great, added the Article of the procession of the Holy Ghost from the Son, unto this Symbol. In the 
s See Bellarm. li. 4. de verbo Dei. c. 11. Quaedam in doctrina Christiana tam fidei, quam morum, sunt simpliciter omnibus necessaria ad salutem, qualis est notitia articulorum. Symboli Apostolici, item cogniti● decem praeceptorum, etc.  Symbol which Cyprian expoundeth there, is added, The resurrection of this flesh; because of the Originists, who professed we should rise again, not with these, but with other bodies. For things to be believed, this was the acknowledgement which the Church required of them that were to be received into the Congregation of Christ's flock. And for the practical part, or things to be done, she required of them an 
t Clement. constit. lib. 8. ca 32. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, etc. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉.  abrenunciation of the Devil, the world, and the flesh, with all their sinful works and lusts, which being solemnly-done, they were then baptised into this faith.  
The means whereby men were brought to the knowledge of Christ were divers. Some were won by the preaching of the Word, others, by private teaching, conference, admonition, the constancy of the Saints in suffering, and the fame and report of the great things which the Lord was pleased to work by his people, as Rahab was converted by the fame of the great things which the Lord had wrought for Israel. Thus the Country of the 
u Secrat. hist. lib. 1. cap. 16. lat. Gr. cap. 20. Theodor. lib. 1. cap. 24. Sozom. hist. lib. 2. cap. 6. Sozom. hist. lib. 1. cap. 7.  Iberians was converted by a captive woman, who after she had instructed the King and the Queen, they both became Teachers of the Gospel to the people. Theridates is reported to be called to the Christian Religion, by a 
w Sozom. li. 1. c. 7. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, etc.  wonderful and divine vision, which appeared about his house, and by his Edict he commanded all his Subjects, that they should addict themselves to the faith of Christ. The Persians were brought to the faith by the conference which they had with the Oswenians, and Armenians. Origen when yet he was not allowed for a Minister by the Church, did by the blessing of God, turn many to the faith, who gave testimony thereunto, by the loss of their lives. He preached also publicly by the consent of the Church-governors, when he was not made Minister, which 
x Euseb. hist. lib. 6. cap. 4.  Alexander Bishop of Jerusalem, and Theoctistus, Bishop of Caesarea, defend against Demetrius; by the like examples of Eusebius, Paulinus, and Theodorus, and as they add it is likely the same was done in other places. 
y Euseb. hist. lib. 6. ca 20. Gr. 3. lat. See Whitaker advers. Staplet. Duplic. lib. 1. cap. 7. pag. 100 & ca 9 pag. 139 & ca 11 pag. 176, 177. Fulk. answ. to the Rh in Rom. 10 15. Wotton trial of the Church. See Socrat hist. l. 5. cap. 10. Theodor. l. 5 ca 16. Socrat. hist. lib. 1. ca 15. lat. ca 19 Gr.  Hence we may perceive, whom the Church both in the first planting, and reforming of Religion, judged to be Saints, who were to be received into society; wherein we are further to note, If aught were done amiss, in this or that particular circumstance, it did not nullify the work, or reformation.  
Now to apply this to the state of the British Churches, both in their first plantation, continuance after, and that reformation which was made by King Edward first, and after by Queen Elizabeth, and so is continued. Some 
z Camden. Britan. pag. 47. edit. Lond. An. 1607. Fr. Godwin. de conv. Britan. ca 3. pag. 23. Vsser de prim. Eccl. Brit. ca 1. Gildas.  learned men are of opinion, that the Druids did instruct the Britain's, in the knowledge and worship of one God: but it is more probable, they lay drowned in the days of ignorance, as other Nations, in the most miserable and fearful idolatry, of serving and worshipping many and strange gods. But when the light of the Gospel began to shine unto the world of the Gentiles, it pleased God of his free and boundless mercy and compassion to look upon this 
a Origen. in Ezek. Hom. 4. Hieron. ad Heliodor. ep. 3. Gildas. Vsser de prim. cap. 16. pag. 740. Theodor. lib. 9 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. Euseb. hist. l. 2. ca 2, 3. Vsser de prim. ca 2. pag. 20. & ca 16. pag. 740, 741. viz. Vsser de prim. Eccl. Britan. ca 1, 2, 3.  Island, and to send unto us the word of reconciliation, which was received & brought forth fruit, grew and increased, until at length it filled the Land. Which of the Apostles first preached the Gospel among us, is uncertain, but that from the springing forth of the light, the faith of Christ was received, is a thing generally acknowledged. Of the year when King Lucius received the faith of Christ, and was baptised, there is great diversity among Historians: but in the thing itself they all 
b Ep. eleuther. ad Lutium inter. léges Edward. cap. 17. Euseb hist. l. 4. c. 7. Lat. 5. Gr. Ruffin. Eccl. hist. l. 4. cap. 8. Gildas. Bedae hist. l. 7. c. 4. Orig. in Ezek. hom. 4. & in Luc. cap. 1. hom. 6. Tertul. lib. advers. judae: ca 7. Gildas scriptor antiquissimus. Reges Dei vicarij Vsser de prim. ca 6. p. 104. & cap 7. pag. 143, 144, etc.  agree in the times of Hadrian and Antoninus, Emperors, the Christian faith received mighty increase, as in the rest of the world; so in Britain, and amongst some, remained entire and undefiled, until the persecution of Dioclesian; which persecution burned furiously for the space of ten years in many Provinces, but in Britain, it continued only one year. For Constantius Chlorus, being declared Augustus, 
c Euseb. de vita Constan. l. 1, c. 12. & 9  restored peace to Christians in the Province of his Dominions, scil. Spain, France, and Britain. After the death of Constantius, 
d Euseb. hist. lib. 8. c. 29. Gr. Ruffin. 29 Sozom. l. 1. c. 6.  Constantine his Son, borne in England, and present with his Father at York when he died, was made Emperor; in whose time and reign persecution ceased, peace was generally given to the Church, 
e Euseb. hist. lib. 10. ca 2. & lib 40. cap. 5. f.  Temples built, which before had been made equal with the ground, and the profession of Christian faith restored. Under Constantine two great Counsels were called. The first at 
f Tom. 1. Concil. Gall. edit. Paris. An. 1629.  Arles in France, An. 314. to take knowledge of the cause of the Donatists, where were present out of our Britain Eborius. Bishop of York, 
Euseb. de vita Constant. lib. 3. ca 18. Socrat. l. 1. cap. 6. & lib. 5. cap. 21. Theodor. l. 1. ca 10.  Restitutus, Bishop of London, Adelphius Bishop of Colchester, and Arminius Diaconus, Presbyter. The second was the Nicene Council in Bythinia, An. 325 against Arius, where the Britain's also were assembled. And though in the Council of Ariminum, in Italy under Constantius, where Bishops out of Britain were assembled with others, it was concluded for Arius, yet Britain was preserved safe from the Arian infection, both in the reigns of Constantius, and Julian the Apostata. 
Athanas. Graecolar. tom. 1. pag. 309. edit. Comelit. Theodor. hist. l. 4. c. 3.  Pelagius a Britain by birth, troubled the Churches with his pestilent Doctrine, denying the grace of God, attributing power and liberty to man to live without sin, and keep the Commandments, if he would. This Heresy arose about the year 405. or 406. and the Author thereof drew his first breath in Britain, 
Prudent. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. Trim. 13. speaking of Cyprian saith, Gallos' fovet, imbuit Britannos, praesidet Hisperiae, Christum serit ultimis Hiberis. Vsser. de prim. Eccles. Britan. ca 16. pag. 787.  but he sowed not this heretical doctrine in Britain. And though it must be confessed, That these Churches were not altogether free from that infection, yet at first it was opposed, and after it was banished, by the blessing of God. About the year 420. flourished Fastidius, of whom Gennedius in his catalogue of Ecclesiastical Writers, saith, Fastidius Bishop of the Britain's, wrote to Fatalis one book of Christian life, and another of keeping Widowhood, in sound doctrine, and according to the truth of God. And John Trithemius, Fastidius Bishop of the Britain's, was a man learned in the holy Scriptures, and an excellent Preacher of the word of God, famous in life and conversation, in speech and wit notable: 
Prosper. contra. collater. cap. 41. Vsser de prim. pag. 319, 320, 323, 324.  He wrote some devout little works, etc. And by the vigilancy and care of Lopis, and Germanus Antisiodorensis, the Britain's were delivered from the contagion which had begun to infect the Churches. After this the face of things was miserable in that Kingdom, by reason of the invasion of the 
g Repellunt nos barbari ad mare, repellit mare ad barbaros. Inter haec duo genera funerun, aut jugulamur autmergimur. Bed. hist. eccls. l. 1. cap. 14. Bilson. The true difference between Christians. Par. 1. pa. 56. That this Land was infected with Arianisme, & Pelagianism, as many other places than were, I find it reported in the story of Beda Eccl. his. gent. Angl. l. 1. c. 8. & lib. 1. cap. 17. And the Bishops of France our neighbours upon request made unto them by the Britain's, sent Germanus and Lupus, two French Bishops, chosen in a Synod by the general liking, to convert this realm from Pelagius error, which also they did with great celerity.  barbarous enemy, the terrible famine, the direful contagion of the Pelagian and Arian heresies, and the looseness, negligence, drunkenness, contentions, and other vices of the Clergy. The Christian Religion thus corrupted, was restored again by the second coming of Germannus: but after that grievously oppressed by the coming in of the Anglo-Saxons, who could not yet so extinguish the truth of God, but it did revive, spread and grow, though sometimes more pure, sometimes more corrupt, and sometimes with greater, sometimes with less freedom.  
But to come to the last reformation which was made of Religion in this Land, and it was not the conversion of England from infidelity to the profession of the Gospel, but the restoring of it from a corrupt state or profession to a more pure; from Christianity polluted, to Christianity unpolluted. Christians they were who inhabited this Land, baptised into the true faith of Jesus Christ, but Christians defiled with manifold superstitions, led aside into manifold errors, which errors and superstitions removed, they become sound and true Christians indeed. The true 
h Chaloner. Credo S: 2. part. sect. 2: It will soon appear that the Ch● of Rome for a thousand years after our Saviour, professed no other faith, nor published any other belief in points fundamental, either negative or affirmative, than we do, etc. After a thousand and some few years more were expired (Transubstantiation, and Adoration of the Host, with other dregs of Antichrist being established) though we cannot say that the Church of Rome was from thence forth absolutely our Church, yet we may boldly say, that our church was from that time until Luther, both within the Roman Church and without it.  Church lay hid in Popery, as a little oar in a great lump of dross, not refined, not purified, not coined, but true gold for substance, yea, that very same for substance which being purified and stamped, is currant coin. When the invocation of Saints, worshipping of Images, the Latin Service, and fabulous Legends, the sacrifice of the Mass, and adoration of the Sacrament, with such like abominations, were taken away; and in the room thereof, the true worship of one true God in the mediation of Jesus Christ, and the right administration of the Sacraments, and the reading of the holy Scriptures in a known tongue established; when the omnipotency of the Pope is abandoned, with all corrupt superstitions, which did undermine the foundation itself: and in stead thereof the entire faith of the Lord Jesus, in all points necessary to salvation, taught, professed, and received; then is the Church refined and separated from that dross. To bring Infidels from the state of infidelity to the faith, it is necessary that instruction go before, either by reading, exhortation, preaching, or report of Christian faith, for faith cometh by hearing. But where men profess Christianity, abuses may be reform by the Edict of the Magigrate, without such particular instruction going before, as in the former case is requisite. Many times 
* Jo. 2.19.  heresy departeth from the Church, or Heretics go out from the Church: and sometimes the Church is compelled to go out from heresy, the heresy still remaining. 
* Revel. 18.4.  Come out of her my people, saith the Lord: the godly then departing from Babylon, according to God's commandment, & gathering themselves into Christian societies, the religious Magistrate, by his Edict or Proclamation going before them, are the true churches of Christ. The 
i Raynold. orat. epist. ad fratrem. Non semper heresis exit ab ecclesia, aliquando manet heresis, ecclesia exire cogitur.  Papacy was not the church, but the church lay hid in the Papacy, until the time of separation, which being made according to God's commandment, by the authority of the Lords Vicegerent, the church, which was before 
k August. epist. 48. ad Vincent. Donatist. Ecclesia est, quae aliquando obscuratur, & tanquam obnubilatur, multitudine scandalorum.  obscured, doth now shine forth. Thus our Divines do sound and truly answer to the Papists demanding, where our Church was before Luther, That it was where now it is, but unrefined, unstamped; that it lay 
l Beza. epist. 1. ad Duditium: et si Papatun non sit Ecclesia, voluit Deus in Papatu servare ecclesiam.  hid among them for the time, as some fit stones for the building, under a great heap of rubbish; and that we have not erected a new Church, but repaired and restored a ruinous 
m See Dr. Feild of the Church, lib. 3. c. 6. & 8. Beza. epist. 81. Quid interim misera Dei ecclesia? nempe haec tunc erat ipsius conditio, quae olim in Israele temporibus Eliae, delirescentibu● in spelunca fidelibus Dei Prophetis: et qualis rum erar, quum everso Dei templo, & jugi cessante sacrificio, captiva in babylon teneretur. Servabat tamen Dominus renascituri suo tempore, populi semen. Manebat salvus in papatu Baptismus, in patris, filij & Sp. Sancti nomen, etc.  decayed and corrupt Church. If any of our men deny the Churches wherein our Fathers lived to be the Churches of God, their meaning is limited in respect of the prevailing faction that was in the church, and including them and all the wicked impieties by any of them defended; in which sense, their negative is to be understood. These things standing thus, might not the christian Magistrate take away the Idol of the Mass, enjoin the reading of the Scriptures in a known tongue; appoint that prayer should be made to God only in the mediation of Jesus Christ, and take order that the Sacrament of the Supper might be administered in both kinds, 
* 2 Chron. 17.7, 8 9, 10.  according to the institution? Might he not 
n Nabuchadneezer made a law, That no man should blaspheme the God of Shadrac, etc. Dan. 3.29. Darius, that men tremble & fear before the God of Daniel, Dan. 6.26. Joshua made a covenant with the people, that they should put away their strange gods, Ios. 24.23. Asa destroyed Idolatry, & commanded the people to serve and seek the Lord, 2 Par. 14.3, 4. & 15, 8, 9, 10, etc. Jehosaphat sent Princes to teach in the Cities of Judah, & with them Levites, 2 Chro. 17.7, 8, 9 & 19.4. Hezekiah sent to all Israel & judah, that they should come to the house of the Lord, 2 Par. 30.1.6. Also he took away the high places, 2 Reg. 18.4. josiah broke down the altars of Baal, and brought bacl the people to the worship of God, 2 Chron. 34.3, 4, 5.7 29, 30, 32, 33. Polonia, Russia, Lithuania was forced at the commandment of their Rulers to forsake their ancient Idols, and receive Baptism. Munster Cosmograph. fol. 894.902. and divers good Princes maintained long and sharp wars, of purpose to compel the Saxons and Vandals to the faith, Idem lib. 3. fol. 719.743. It is a strange & new kind of preaching (for Bishops) to drive men to believe with whip, as Bonner did; but in Princes, who bear the sword, and are Gods Lieutenant's, not only to procure peace between men, but also by Laws to maintain Religion towards God, we neither did, nor do dispraise moderate correction, when need so requireth, August. Epist. 127. Idem contra Erescon. lib. 3. cap. 50. Idem contra lit. Petilian. lib. 2. cap. 86.83. Codex. lib. 1. tit. 5. the Heretic. Socrat. lib. 1. ca 34. Gr. lat. 21, 22. Euseb. de vità Const. lib. 1. cap. 37. Theodoret. lib. 5. cap. 20. Multa enim cogit ferre necessitas quae tamen non probantur.  command all people throughout his Dominions professing the faith, to learn the grounds of Religion, to call upon the Name of the Lord, to hear his Word and to worship him truly and purely, according as the Lord himself hath appointed? And when the people could not, or were careless and negligent, might he not provide means for their instruction and edification in the faith of the Lord Jesus? This the Christian Magistrates did amongst us by authority from God. They provided that the Scriptures should be read in a known language in all Congregations, Ministers enjoined to catechise in the grounds of Christian Religion, the Gospel was preached in many places, disputation was proffered to the learned for satisfaction. If these things be advisedly considered, we shall hear no more from the Brethren of the Separation, that our Church was gathered without the Word, by mere Proclamation, not called but made up a Church in one day, at the commandment of the evil Magistrate: at least, no man that hath truly tasted of the Word of life, will be moved with such like cavils, unless it be to condemn their rashness and unthankfulness so much the more. It might here be added; that before reformation many did earnestly desire it; some lay hid all the days of Queen Mary, who never came to the Mass, but trained up their children and servants at home in the grounds of Christian Religion; others fled into foreign parts: some met together in private in their own Countries, as they had opportunity, and many groaned under that bondage in which they were held; all which did gladly welcome the truth, when it shined forth, and rejoiced when they might join in the Congregation, understand their prayers, hear the Scriptures, and be instructed in the principles of faith and holiness. And if I should say, that at the first reformation, there were more godly, learned, painful Preachers, that endeavoured to bring forward the people in the ways of godliness, by an hundred to one, than ever wane of your Separation since the Gospel shined unto the world, I conceive you shall not be able to find an Hyperbole in the speech.  
And now suppose in this great and admirable work, such a course to be held, as cannot be justified in all things, shall this make a nullity of that which is prosperously effected by the blessing of God? If ignorant Ministers should not have been set over the people, when better could not be had; if people should not have been admitted to the Lords Supper, before better instruction in the grounds of Christian Religion (when yet the Law doth presuppose them in some sort instructed;) If profane and notorious wicked persons, which should have been cast out, unless they had repent, were received into communion, without any due course held before to reform and amend them, this argueth 
o Beza. epist. 1. ad Dudetium. Valentinian the elder was a good man, & worthy the Empire, being himself of the Nicene faith. Theod. lib. 4. ca 5. Sozom. lib. 6. cap. 6. and yet he molested not any that were of the contrary faith, neither thought he it good to change Ecclesiastical laws into better or worse, Sozom. li. 6. ca 20. Socrat. l. 4. c. 1 and made a Law, that every man that would might have two wives, & himself gave the first example in taking two. Socrat. l. 4. Gr. ca 30. lat. ca 16. Can. Neces. of Separate. p. 175, 176: 1 Reg. 6.17, 18. 2 Chron. 1.8, 9  imperfection in the reformation, and just cause that we should strive forward to perfect what was happily begun, but proveth not the assemblies to be Antichristian, or the reformation to be of no worth and validity.  
Look through all the Reformations mentioned in Scripture, or recorded in other Antiquities; and set if this reformation be a nullity, whether ever there was a reformed church in the world for any continuance.    

SECT. II.  
THe material Temple was a type of the visible Churches under the Gospel; Now we read, that it was built from the very foundation ●f costly stones, of Cedars, Algum, Fir, and the like choice and special trees, and those all prepared aforehand, hewed and perfect for the building, so that neither hammer, nor axe, nor any tool was to be hea din the house, in the building of it; no common or vile thing was used towards it; neither might any polluted person enter it and offer, until he had repent and embraced the faith, 
2 Chron. 23.19. Levit. 22.19. & 27.11.  and been cleansed from his filthiness. By the gates of the house were Porters set to keep the unworthy out. Upon the Altar there might be offered no unclean beast, no nor that which was clean, having a blemish upon it. What in all this was signified? Only this: Such as will build a spiritual house for the Lord to dwell in, must be an holy people: for he is of that infinite purity, that he will not vouchsafe his special presence unto profane companies, which join themselves together; and therefore let it be far from all men to prepare a place for him, with such trash, or to defile his holy things with such unclean persons, or to offend his nostrils with the stink of such sacrifices.  

ANSWER.  
IF this reason be aught worth, not only such as would build a spiritual house to the Lord for his Majesty to dwell in, but such as would preserve it being built, must be an holy people, holy in truth, and not only in the judgement of charity: for he is an holy God, who will not be worshipped of the hypocrite or profane, will not take the wicked dissembler by the hand, will not hear the prayers of them that with delight look unto iniquity. If the Temple was built from the very foundation with costly stone, hewn and prepared, after it was built, it must be kept from all pollution. And then if the Temple was a type of the visible Church in such sense as this reason affirmeth, it must be gathered of a people truly holy and separated from the world, and only of such, so that if any hypocrite shall craftily creep into it, or any wicked person be tolerated afterwards, it must cease to be a Church: 
August. de Baptis. contr. Petilian. ca 14. & in Epist. 1. Joh. Beda in epist. 1 job. Glossa ordinar. Sic sunt ficti in ecclesia, quomodo humores mali in corpore; quando evomuntur, relevatur corpus, sic qudndo excunt mali, relevatur Ecclesia.  which is directly contrary to the whole current of Scripture, and to that which yourself many times affirm. The Temple is thought to be a type of Christ, of a Christian, of the Church, but whether of the true Catholic Church, whereof every member is a living stone, elect and precious, or of the visible congregational assembly, consisting of good and bad, sincere and hypocritical professors, it may well be questioned: For the visible Church is not built all of costly stones, hewn and prepared: Therein many persons inwardly polluted do offer, though outwardly they appear clean, and some may be suffered to offer, which inwardly and outwardly appear to be unclean.  
And if it was a type of the visible Church, it must be considered how fare the signification is to be extended, and wherein the resemblance standeth. For as it appertaineth to God only to design a type, so it is peculiar to him alone to expound or notify the 
p A dispute. par. 3. cap. 8. pag. 169. Men may never at their pleasure ascribe to any rite whatsoever, a holy signification of some mystery of faith or duty of piety.  signification of the type wherein it consisteth: It is an addition prohibited for us to interpret divine instituted types upon our own heads, without ground and warrant from God. The common Rule is good, if rightly limited; Theologia symbolica non est argumentativa, which you had need to study better, for here and elsewhere throughout your books, you thrust such significations of types used in the old Testament upon your Reader, as are not taught in Scripture, not for the matter itself consonant to the 
q August. contr. 2. Gaudent. epist. l. 2. cap. 25. Did God or man tell it you? If God, read it unto us out of the Law, the Prophets and Psalms, the Apostolical or Evangelicall Writings? Read it if you can, which hitherto you never could; but if men have said it (or rather no man but yourself) behold the device of men, behold what you worship, behold what you serve, behold wherefore you rebel, you rage, you wax mad. Bills. Christ. subject. pars 3. pag. 22. You promised full proofs out of the Word of God, etc. and now you come with empty figures of your own, applying without truth or coherence. Amb. Epist. lib. 5. ep. 31. The mystery of Heaven, let God himself teach me, which made (Heaven) not man which knew not himself; whom should I rather believe concerning God, than God himself.  Scripture: and your whole frame of arguing is drawn from similitudes and comparisons, which is the most popular, but deceitful and lose kind of reasoning, if they be not rightly drawn and well proportioned. Let this particular in hand be for example, and let us grant you more than you will desire, scil. That the Temple was a type of the visible Church, and that all the members thereof ought to be holy, truly holy and not in appearance only, sincere Christians in the sight of God, and in the judgement of charity alone, Saints and faithful in truth, and not only in profession and conversation in some measure answerable: be it that no unclean thing must be offered upon the altar, that no hypocritical service shall be accepted: Hence it will not follow, that the society is no visible Church of God where such are tolerated, or that the pure and unfeigned worship of the faithful, shall not be accepted; when it is tendered in a society amongst whom there be some rebellious, which hate to be reform.  
If the Temple be a type of the visible Church as it was built from the very foundation of costly stones, what can it signify in your sense, but that the spiritual house of the Lord must consist of them that are truly holy, faithful, and called, so that they should need, neither axe, hammer, nor any tool (so you press the matter) to fit or square. And then by your own confession we are to expect no Church upon the earth, if ever there hath been any: For in the visible Church hypocrites are and have been mixed with the faithful, as rubbish or counterfeit with costly stones, which could have no place in the Temple. 
* Can. Stay. sect. 4. pag. 33.  Thus (I might say to you, as you to your Pistoler) The man is snared in his own words, and may say with the Poet; Heu! patior telis vulnera facta meis! If the Temple might be a type of the Church this notwithstanding, than it shows only what the Church ought to be, not what it is; of whom it doth consist as prime, chief, principal members, partakers of all the Royalties and privileges thereof, and not who are tolerated and suffered there as members in an inferior degree, or as maims and blemishes: And then you must lie under the just imputation of abusing this instance to another purpose, not agreeable to the truth. 
Can. Neces. of Separate. pag. 195. It will not be found that ever we have denied, but many hypocrites may be in the true church, yea, of open and vile transgressors: but here lieth the point; If any man shall affirm that the same may be first gathered of known lewd, and unconverted men, that indeed we deny utterly, etc.  When you are pressed with the examples where wicked and ungodly men were tolerated in the Church and did bear chief sway, and possessed the greatest places and office in the Church, you fly to this, that you plead against the first building of a Church of such wicked and ungodly men, and here you say. He that will build a spiritual house to the Lord, and the orderly gathering and planting of the members of them, were all holy: But if this reason be of any force, it concludes for the continuance of the Church as well as the first planting or gathering, that the members thereof must be truly holy. And if this be not more cunning than beseemeth the sincere handler of God's Word in a matter of such importance, let the indifferent consider.    

SECT. III.  
THe reasons upon which our proposition is grounded are these; 
Neces. of Separate. pag. 176, 177. Psal. 50.16. Isa. 35.8. Zach. 14.21. Rev. 21. ult.  first, All wicked men are forbidden expressly by the Word of God, for meddling with his ordinance or covenant. Now if men to escape temporal punishment are afraid to transgress against the Laws of worldly Princes! much more fearful should they be to break his, who is the King of Kings, and will inflict for it upon their souls and bodies torments eternally 2. That which destroyeth a Church and makes it either to become a false Church or no Church at all, cannot be a true Church, or be true matter whereof it is made: But men visibly wicked and profane, make the Church a Synagogue of Satan, Babylon, Sodom, Egypt, and so be spied out and removed. 3. It is against sense and common reason, that a Church should be constituted of unholy people: For as in a material house the wood and stone must be first prepared, and then laid orderly in the building: So in the spiritual, men and women by the word of God must necessarily be first reform, before they are any way fit to have any place therein. 4. They which have no right to the holy things of God in the Church, are not to be admitted into it, neither is that Church which is so gathered, rightly constituted. 
Matth. 7.6.  But men of wicked conversation have no right to the holy things of God in the Church: And therefore that Church which is gathered of such, is not rightly constituted. 5. They cannot perform the services and duties of members, 
Eph. 2.1.  for they are spiritually dead; If a Master will who covenant with one to be his servant, which hath in him no natural life, much less, etc. 6. They have not Christ for their head, and therefore cannot be of his body; For as in the natural body there must first be a natural 〈◊〉 of the parts with the head, before there can be day action of natural conjunction, 
joh. 15.2.4, Rom. 8.  between the head and the members, and one member and another: so in the spiritual body, the members must be first united with Christ the head, and became one with him, before they can any way partake in his benefits, 
Rom. 7.2. Hos●a 2.19, 20.  or have communion one with another, as members of the s●me body 〈◊〉 him the head. 7. They are altogether uncapable of this covenant; For as a woman which hath been once a wife, cannot marry again with another man, until her first husband be deceased, or she from him lawfully divorced; So neither can these be married to the 〈◊〉, till they have mortified their corruptions, and put the world and Satan away, unto which they were before (as it were) married. 8. The godly and wicked are contraries, guided and lead by different causes: Now true contraries are not capable of one and the same form.  

ANSWER.  
THe best way to be secure from the force of your darts, is to run unto the mark. For here we have reasons numbered up which have weight in them for some purpose (some of them at the least) but direct them to your mark, and they recoil bacl upon yourself. When you have reckoned up first, second, and third, etc. the conclusion is ever wanting, and not so much as one premise which looks to the right conclusion to be confirmed. The thing to be proved is this, that it is no true Church of God, which is not planted, gathered, or built of Saints only: but that consequence will never follow from those premises. For every thing in those Reasons must as well be applied to the continuance of the church, as to the first gathering and planting of it. The wicked are expressly forbidden to meddle with the covenant, or ordinances of God, men visibly wicked make the church a Synagogue of Satan: Men must be hewn and reform before they are fit to have any place in the Church of God: Men of wicked conversation have no right to the holy things of God: 
Bilson. perpet. govern. ca 10. p. 147. With open reproving by the Word, & excluding from the Sacraments such as notoriously sinned, Pastors and Prophets might intermeddle, the people might not: It was no part of their charge, but in banishing of malefactors from all fellowship and company both civil & sacred, with the faithful: Pastors were to direct, the people to assist and execute that judgement. The Apostles do not leave it to the people's liking, as a matter indifferet, till they have consented, but enjoineth it as a necessary duty, and commandeth them in the namen of Christ jesus to withdraw themselves from every brother that walketh inordinately, etc. Where there wanteth à believing Magistrate, the Pastor shall not do wisely to proceed to any such rigour against wilful and obstinate sinners, without the knowledge and consent of the people. Euseb. hist. lib. 6. cap. 34. Theodoret. lib. 5. cap. 17. Bilson. Christian subject. part. 3. pag. 81, 82, 83, 86. The Question is not whether Bishops shall receive Kings with open and obstinate vices to the Lords Table; but whether they shall chase them from their Kingdoms or no: we mislike not repentance in Princes, but resistance in subjects, etc. But mark what care Augustine will have observed, how and when discipline should be administered.  They cannot perform the duties of members, they have nor Christ for their head; they are uncapable of the covenant, etc. Is any thing here spoken peculiar to the members of the Church at the first planting thereof, which doth not hold true of the members of the Church established and confirmed? Are not the wicked at all times forbidden to meddle with the ordinances of God, uncapable of the covenant, spiritually dead, not fit to have place in the house of God? And if this hold true against such members of the Church at all times, why do you bear the Reader in hand. That you only plead against the first building of a Church of such wi●●ed and ungodly persons? 
* Can. Neces. of Separate. pag. 194, 195.  The Question (you say) hath ever been about the true and natural members, whereof God's Church is orderly gathered, and planted, and not about the degenerate and decayed estate thereof. But if any of these Reasons will conclude aught, there was never society to be esteemed the true church of God, all whose members were not Saints and holy, spiritually enlived, fit to perform the duties of members, fitted, prepared and laid orderly in the building, married to the Lord Christ. What you hold, that is not material in this point, but what your Arguments conclude: for if they infer one thing and you maintain another, of necessity they are weak, or you are cross to yourself, or both. 
* Can. Neces. of Separate. pag. 195.  If they shall say, (thus you writ) that obstinate and incorrigible sinners, may lawfully be suffered therein, This we affirm to be untrue: But if they say, that in a true visible Church, there may be great evils committed, you and along time tolerated, we assent unto it. Howbeit, it is certain (as Dr. Ames faith) This forbearance is a grievous sin before God. Of the lawful toleration of obstinate and incorrigible persons, we have no controversy with you; But if any one reason here be brought by you to the purpose, it cannot be the true Church of God, where any one obstinate known offender is suffered, or which hath not right to the holy things of God. That the members of the Church ought to walk in holiness, you need not prove; but that the Congregation cannot be the true Church of God, where such things are suffered as ought not to be: And yet your Reasons go higher than so.  
For if they be duly examined, whether do they speak of such as be truly holy, or only visibly holy? Saints and faithful in the fight of God, or only in the eyes and approbation of men? Only the Saints are capable of the Covenant, spiritually alive unto God, married unto Jesus Christ, and have communion with him: only they are hewn, fitly prepared and laid truly upon the spiritual foundation; only their service is accepted of God in Jesus Christ. It is nothing here to answer, the members of the Church are such in the judgement of charity: For in the degenerate state, the Church doth not ever consist of such as you confess: and your reasons here speak of them that be such indeed, in the judgement of truth, quickened by the Spirit, acceptable to God, Saints by Covenant, the living members of Jesus Christ, and so heirs of salvation.  
And if we look into this matter more narrowly, the conclusion fighteth with the premises, and doth manifestly overturn what you would build. 
Psal. 50.16. Moller. in Psal. 50.16.  The wicked are expressly forbidden to meddle with the Covenant. But those wicked ones to whom the Lord speaketh at that time, more visible members of the true Church. The wicked make the Church of God (you say) a Synagogue of Satan, Sodom, etc. And doth not the Prophet call them Princes of Sodom, 
Isa. 1.10.  and people of Gomorrah, who were the people of God by covenant, members of the true Church? Do they provoke God to spew them out of his mouth, or to remove his Candlestick? But until he remove his Candlestick, or spew them out of his mouth, they continue his Church and people. 
Ezek. 16.45, 46, 47, etc.  Rebellious Judah justified her Sisters Sodom and Samaria, and yet she continued the Church of God, when they were cast off; A tree unhewen and unprepared is unfit matter for an house, and so are tares, blasted corn, and dry ears, to grow together in the field with good corn, as wheat, etc. But the house ceaseth not to be an house, though a piece of timber unprepared be put into it, or the corn field to be a field of corn, because the tares are suffered to abide until the harvest. A dead man cannot perform the office of a living member, but instrumentally he may do the office of a member, or he may be an instrument which the head is pleased to use, for the good of the body; otherwise no hypocrite who is spiritually dead could be any means of good unto the society. No wicked man is spiritually married unto Christ, nor hypocrite, but hypocrites and wicked men may be members of the society which in respect of external covenant is married unto Christ, or else the Church of the Jews was not beloved of him. The godly and wicked are lead by different causes, and so are hypocrites and sincere Christians, but they may be linked together in the same outward society. Hypocrites, you confess, are members of the Church, until they be dissevered and cast out: But the upright and the double-hearted are contraries, lead by different causes, and so uncapable of the same form, to use your phrases.    

SECT. iv  
FOr this we have the judgement of the learned also, 
Can. Neces. of Separate. pag. 178. In Psal. 15.  There must be (saith Mollerus) a profession of true Religion and obedience yielded thereto, at least, outwardly to become a member of the visible Church. Beza saith, 
Anno. in Act. 2.40.  He is rightly joined to the Church, which separates himself from the wicked. Paul calls the Romans Saints (saith Aretius) to put a difference between their former estate wherein they lived, 
In Rom. 1.7. Vol. thes. theolog. pag. 256.  which was unholy and impure, and the condition to which they were now called. Piscator affirms the matter of a particular Church to be a company of Believers, etc.  

ANSWER.  
YOu may easily bring heaps of testimonies for that which these Authors affirm. For I suppose there is not, 
Mark what care S. Augustine will have observed, how & when discipline should be used. August. contr Parmenian. lib. 3. ca 2. If contagion of sin have invaded a multitude, the merciful severity of correction from God himself is necessary. Nam concilia separationis inania sunt, & perniciosa atque sacrilega; etc.  nor ever was, godly, orthodox Divine, of another judgement. But that which they say, and you maintain, are incompatible. Their Assertion is taught in Scripture, professed by the godly learned in all ages, and is most evident to right reason, illuminated by faith. But that which you contend for, is neither taught in Scripture, nor confirmed by reason, or professed by godly and learned Authors, ancient or modern, of one sort or other, parties excepted. For it is one thing to say, the Church is a society of faithful people, joining together in the ordinances of worship: Another, that it is no Church where the ignorant or profane are tolerated. The first of these is affirmed: The latter is that which you must prove out of those Writers (which you can never do) or else you abuse both yourself and them. Order is requisite in every administration of the Church, 
Can. Neces. of Separate. pag. 186.  as the Apostle teacheth, and chief in the collection thereof, you say. But the want of order in every point requisite, either in the collection or government of the Church, doth not make it no Church. You know it is an usual received distinction, that hypocrites and ungodly men are in the Church, but not of the Church. And if at any time you read that notorious offenders are neither of the Church, 
T. C. repl.. 1. pa. 34, 35.  nor in the Church; The same Author hath explained himself, that when he saith, There be no known Drunkards or Whoremongers in the Church, he speaks of that which should be: 
T. C. 2. repl. par. 1: pag. 242.  As when Paul saith, That the Church of God hath no custom to contend, 
Aug. de mor. Eccl. cathol. lib. 1. c. 34. Bring me not such Christians as either know not or keep not the force of their profession. Rake not after the ruder sort, which even in true Religion are entangled with superstition: myself knew many that are worshippers of tombs and pictures.  he setteth forth, not that which always cometh to pass, but what ought to be always. For it may be that contention may continue in a Church many years, and yet it cease not to be the true Church of God.  
In Mollerus I can find nothing that makes to your purpose, but many things directly against you. First, he entreateth in that Psalm of the true lively members of the Church, and therefore your gloss (at least outwardly) corrupteth the Text. Thus in the argument of the Psalm he writeth; Ostendit qui sint cultus, aut opera quae Deo placeant, & quomodo vera & viva membra, Ecclesia ab hypocritis & alijs manifestè impijs, discerni possint & debeant. And in the whole Psalm he showeth that he speaketh of the living members of the Church, for whom salvation is prepared, and to whom it is reserved, and not of visible members only. Thus upon the first verse, V●itur autem hoc verbo, 
August. contr. Par. lib. 3. cap. 2. It cannot be an healthful reproving by many, but when he that is reproved hath no number to take his part. But if the same disease hath possessed many, the good have nothing left for them to do, but to sorrow & mourn.  ut ostendat discrimen inter perpetuos Ecclesiae, cives, 〈◊〉 inquilinos, seu hypocritas; qui ad tempus sunt illis permisti. Hi enim etiamsi venditent se pro veris Ecclesiae membris, externâ prefessione, & observatione rituum: tamen quia verâ & solidâ pietate carent, & varijs sordibus sunt polluti, tandem judicio divino separabuntur à veris Ecclesiae membris. And in his third observation upon the first Verse; Quia saepè contingit, Ecclesiam Dei multis inquinamentis deforment cernere, ne quis ad hoc scandalum impingat, discrimen constituendum est, inter perpetuos Ecclesiae cives & inquilinos, qui ad tempus sunt illis permisti. Damnandi igitur sunt Anabaptistis, qui non putant veram esse Ecclesiam, quae vitia quaedane tolerare cogitur. If this be not sufficient, see what he hath upon the fifth Verse. And his observations upon the first and fifth Verses. But what you allege out of him I cannot find.  
Mr. Beza hath that which you cite out of him, but he meaneth nothing less, than that a Christian should separate from the Church and ordinances of grace, because ungodly men are suffered, which should be removed but are not. 
Bezae Annot. Major in Act. 2.40.  In his Major Annotations, he explaineth himself thus; Express usus est hoc verbo Lucas, 
Bezae, epist. 2. pag. 28, 29. Nec enim ut ritè ad caenam accedam, ut scrutandum est mihi quâ quisque conscientiâ ad eam mecum accedat, sed de meâ ipsius conscientia mihi laborandum est. It aque & cum Adulteris, & cum Homicidis, et cum sceleratisstmis quibusvis, medò nulla meâ culpâ tales sint, si ad caenam castus & sceleris puras accessero, nihil illorum impuritas, mihi nocuerit. Et quod de moribus duo etiam de doctrina, dico, quod interdum nec pastors, satis puram tradunt, nec auditores satis recte percipiunt. Dicam etiam amplius si vel Turcam vel Judeun Past or quispian sive prudenter sive imprudenter admitteret, tota illius facti culpa, in illum recideret, nec ego propterea oūctanter ad mensam Domini accesserò, etc.  ut ostenderet ipsarum animarum salutem positam esse in discessione à prophanorum caetibus. But the Church of God, wherein profane persons are suffered to abide, is not the congregation of profane men in Mr. Beza's judgement, from which we must departed. Let this or that be faultily done or pretermitted of some (saith he) are they not therefore Christians, or to be esteemed brethren? But they will say, This is at least to communicate in their sin, nay, this confequence is most false. For if I come prepared to the Supper, I am not to search with what conscience any man doth come to it with me, but I must take care of mine own conscience. Therefore if I come to the Supper, chaste and free from wickedness, though I communicate with adulterers, with murderers, and with most wicked wretches, so they be such by no fault of mine, their impurity shall not hurt me. And what I speak of manners, I also say of doctrine, which sometimes the Pastors do not purely deliver, nor the hearers receive well and holily. I will say more, if some Pastor either ignorantly or advisedly, should admit a Jew or Turk, the whole fault of that fact shall fall upon him, and I would not come no more slackly to the Table of the Lord; because his impure conscience, so I be without fault, doth not pollute mine which is pure; and that very Supper is pure to me, which that impure person profaneth. Thus Beza. And this may be showed to be the constant judgement of all orthodox Divines, not parties in this case, and it is a thing so well known, that it is superfluous labour to examine the rest particularly. And here let it be noted, That it is usual to define the Church by the better part, by the true and living, chief principal and perpetual members, partakers of the royalties and liberties of the catholic Church, knit unto Christ, quickened by the Spirit, heirs of salvation, & one with the triumphant church: And not by all sorts, as in outward society and profession are linked together, who yet are not excluded from the society in respect of profession, nor denied to be members of the Church in their kind or in a sort such as are called only by external vocation, are members in their kind of that company called, or externally selected, but not true members of the Church militant, nor militant members of the Church catholic, whereof Christ is the head. And thus the church is a company of faithful people, sincere, upright, walking with God, which is mixed with hypocrites and wicked livers, not as living members of Jesus Christ, but as members in a sort of the visible society; as members in the church by outward profession, but not of the true militant church.    

SECT. V  
BEfore I end this point, 
Neces. of Separate. p. 179, 180, 181. Babel no Bethel. pag. 108. Chall. ca 1. pag 33, 34.  I will here lay down some few Syllogisms, entirely made up, between the Inconformists and Conformists, all concluding the forenamed position, That Church which hath not a lawful Ministry, is not a true visible Church: But the Church of England hath not a true lawful Ministry: Ergo, The Church of England is not a true visible Church. The proposition is affirmed of the Conformists, 
Sutcl. Chal. pa. 40. and answ. to the except. pag. 65.  as Burton, Sutcliffe. The Assumption is granted by the Nonconformists, as we have in the first chapter largely showed. The true visible Church of Christ is a society of believing and faithful people, and a communion of Saints, so say the Conformists. But the Church of England is not a society of believing and faithful people, a communion of Saints (thus writ the Nonconformists, see page 169.) Ergo, the Church of England is not the true visible Church. The true Church is the King's daughter, described in Psalm 45. But the Church of England is not the King's daughter so described. Therefore the Church of England is not the true Church of Christ. 
Burton. answer to Hicholia. pag. 100  The proposition is laid down by the Conformists, whereby they prove Rome a false Church. The Assumption is the Nonconformists; For if they say the truth, their members have not those qualities belonging to the King's daughter, neither the Priest nor people. See pag. 15.16. 39.137 ●● 69.170. The true Church of Christ is the flock of Christ 〈◊〉 the Church of England is not the true flock of Christ, therefore the Church of England is not the true Church of Christ. The proposition (say the Conformists) is undeniable: 
Burton in the same Book, pag. 99  Song. 1.6, 7, Act: 20.28. Joh: 10.16. The●e Assumption is proved by the Nonconformists Principles, compared; with Joh. 10.3, 4.27. Christ's flock hear his voice, and live it and follow it. But the Church of England submitting to a● unlawful Minisstery; worship, and discipline; hear not Christ's voice, nor know; nor acknowledge, nor follow it, but the voice of Antichrist. The Church of God doth keep the doctrine of the Apostles and Prophets, without addition, alteration or corruption; (thus the Conformists.) 
Sutcl. Chal. cap. 1. pag. 6. arg. 9  But the Church of England keeps not the doctrine of the Apostles and Prophets, without addition, alteration and corruption, say the Nonconformists; Sec pag; 108, Ergo, she is not the Church of God. No society can be termed God's Church, which retaineth not God's true worship (this the Conformists.) But the Church of England doth not retaire God's true worship, say the Nonconformists. See pag. 78 to the 213. Ergo, 
The same Book, pag. 13. arg. 19  she cannot be termed God's church. The true Church consisteth not of fierce. Lions, Wolves, Tigers, and such like wild and fierce beasts; But of Sheep, and Lambs, which learn of Christ, and are meek, humble, gentle, etc. So say the Conformists. But the English Church doth consist of Lions, 
Id. pag. 27. arg. 〈◊〉.  Wolves, Tigers, and such like wild and fierce beast's, and not of Sheep and Lambs, which learn of Christ, and are meek, humble, and gentle, etc. Thus the Nonconformists; see pag. 31. etc. 145.169. Therefore it is not the true Church. Here the Reader seethe clearly how the Conformists Majors and the Nonconformists Minors, make up entire Syllogisms, of Separation; And how they will be able to lose these knots, I know not; except by revoking utterly their own grounds, which if either of them do; yet I doubt not but we shall be well enough able to maintain them against men.  

ANSWER.  
YOu please yourself with the same Song, which here we have over again and again, tuned with the same art. But that which you talk of the Conformists Majors and the Inconformists Minors (your slanders set aside:) is idle and toyish. For in that matter there is no difference betwixt the Conformists and the Inconsormists. The Conformists Majors as they are truly meant, the Inconformists do assent unto: And the abuse of ignorance, idleness, profaneness, both of Ministers & people, whereof the Nonconformists complain; the Conformists do acknowledge and bewail. And your self a little after in a matter of the same nature affirm, that herein you say no more, than what in effect is fully acknowledged, 
Can. Neces. of Separate. pag. 193.  by the Nonconformists, Conformists, the Church of England, the learned generally, and all the reformed Churches upon earth: and for proof you quote the same Authors you here all edge. And why then do you trifle thus with the Conformists Major, and Inconformists Minor? Did the sound of those words please you so well? But let the Majors and Minors be whose they will, no entire or perfect Syllogisms of Separatism can be made up of them, but such as ignorance in not understanding, or an evil conscience in perverting or falsifying their say, doth conclude. They may well stand to their grounds and unloose those knots, and if they understand their own principles, they cannot but untie them. But how you can free yourself from the guilt of an evil conscience, unless you recant what you have written, repent of your Separation, and acknowledge the wrong you have done to the Nonconformists, by misreporting, perverting and falsifying their principles, as you call them; I leave to your serious consideration, and the reexamination of what you have done.  
For the right understanding of the Conformists propositions (I● speak in your phrase) against the Church of Rome, we must note, That the Romanists hold the Church of Rome to be the catholic Church of Christ here on earth, under the Pope the Head; in which sense their propositions are to be understood: For the true catholic militant Church is a faithful people, a communion of Saints, the flock of Christ, that heareth his voice, keepeth the doctrine of the Prophets and Apostles, without addition or alteration, and worshippeth God truly according to his will: And there is truly and properly no member of the militant Church catholic, which doth not this sincerely in truth and measure. But they never thought nor taught, that every member in a sort, of the visible Churches, were holy and sincere, the true sheep of Christ faithful, and effectually called: much less, that it was no Church of Christ, wherein abuses were to be found, or ungodly profane men were tolerated. The 
q Bills. The difference between christium subject par. 1. pag. 92. These (see. the Church militant & triumphant) be not two but one Church. Jerusalem which is above, is the mother of us all. Gal. 4. Ye be now, saith Paul, no more strangers and foreigners, but Citizens with the Saints, and of the household of God, Eph. 2. For you be come to the City of the living God, and Heb. 12. where you see the Saints in heaven, be not removed from the Church of God, but be received to their fellowship. Id. part 2. p. 230. The Church in heaven, is it another Church from this on earth, or the same? Certainly, Christ hath but one body which it his Church, and of that body seeing the Saints (sc. in heaven) be the greater and worthier part, they must be counted the same church with us.  Church militant and triumphant, are not two Kingdoms, but two degrees of one Kingdom. The Church visible and invisible are not two Churches, but distinct considerations of the same Church. If then we speak of true, sound, living, chief, principle members of the militant Church, such as partake in all the royalties and privileges of members, every member of the Church militant is a true branch in the Vine, knit firmly unto Christ, quickened by the Spirit, and shall be an inheriter of eternal glory. But if we speak of members in a sort of visible societies, so hypocrites may be members, and ungodly men, as they are tolerated in the society, when the better part cannot reform or amend them.  
But to the Arguments in order.  
First, The Church may be true though the Ministry be deficient in the order of calling, qualification of persons, and execution of their office: But that Church is false whose Ministry is altogether false for substance of their office, that is the doctrine which they teach, Sacraments which they administer, and functions whereunto they are set apart. Thus the Conformists and Inconformists both. Now if we speak of the Ministry of the Church of England, indefinitely, both Conformists and Inconformists will confess some things to be faulty both in the entrance and execution of their callings; as that some are ignorant, proud, covetous, careless, corrupt, not watching over the flock: But absolutely that their Ministry is false in respect of the substance of their office, that was never said by either of them, as you do or might well know. The knot to be unloosed now remaineth in your conscience, in that either you aequivocate in your Major, or against knowledge, charge the Nonconformists in your Minor, with that which they never said.  
Secondly, The true Church of Christ, that is, the true and lively members of the militant church, and militant members of the catholic church, is a company of 
r The true Church is an universal congregation or fellowship of God's faithful and elect people, built upon the foundations of the Prophets and Apostles, Christ jesus himself, being the head corner stone. And it hath always three notes or marks whereby it is known; pure and sound doctrine, the Sacraments ministered according to Christ's holy institution, and the right use of Ecclesiastical discipline, Hom. 2. book, hom. for Whites. 2. part. The Church consisteth not of men, but of faithful men, and they be the Church, not in respect of flesh and blood, which came from earth, but of truth and grace, which came from Heaven. Bilson. Christ. Subject. part 2. pag. 231.  faithful people, a communion of Saints, the true flock of Christ, which hear, know, acknowledge, believe, and obey the voice of Christ; the king's daughter which is all glorious within, knit to Christ and married unto him: But in this society there are mixed not only secret hypocrites, but fierce Lions, Tigers, Wolves, Bears, wicked Teachers, and ungodly livers. Thus the Conformists and Inconformists. And in this sense the Church of England is a society of faithful and believing people, the flock of Christ, the King's daughter, quickened by the Spirit, enriched with grace, decked with God's ordinances, walking in sincere constant conscionable obedience, though in outward society and profession, mixed with many ignorant, vain profane persons, who have received the press-money of Christ, but indeed fight under the Devil's banner, as do all hypocrites and ungodly wretches; that is, in the Church of England, there be some truly of the Church which hear the voice of Christ, mixed with those which in words profess Christ, but in their deeds deny him: Thus the Conformists and Nonconformists. The knot here lieth only in an aequivocation or gross abuse of the word Church, which sometimes notes the whole visible society, linked in an external profession, and sometimes the true and living members of Jesus Christ, against which the gates of hell shall not prevail.  
Thirdly, The 
s Deo dat. Ital. joh. 10.1. The sheep are the true faithful, endued with spiritual light and discretion.  sheep of Christ do hear his voice, but what sheep? not all that be sheep in profession, but all that be sheep indeed and truth, effectually called and gathered into Christ● sheep-fold. They hear, that is, acknowledge, believe and obey Christ's voice sincerely, but not perfectly, fully, and completely: for the faithful may err of frailty and infirmity, both in faith and manners: sometimes they are misled through ignorance, drawn aside by passions, foiled by temptations. Christ's sheep do obey his voice, but 
t Bills. Christ. subject. part 2. pa. 233. The Church is not simply a number of men; for Infidels, heretics, and hypocrites, are not the Church, but men regenerate by the Word & Sacraments, truly serving God, according to the Gospel of his Son, and sealed by the Spirit of grace, against the day of Redemption.  all that are linked with them in outward society, do not sincerely obey, not yet in conversation fashion themselves to the direction and commandment of Jesus Christ. And thus the Church of England, that is, the true and faithful people in those societies, do hear and obey the voice of Christ in truth, others mixed with them do hear and profess but not obey. If the Church do err, it is of ignorance, nor of wilfulness, or stubbornness: In matters of less importance, not fundamental or bordering thereupon: It is the error of some only, add not of the whole Church, which errors 
u Gratian. decret. par. 2. ca 24. qu. 1. cap. 9 A rectae in Gloss. Novitatibus. Ipsa congregatio fidelium, hic dicitur Ecclesia, & 〈◊〉 Ecclesia non potest nonesse.  cannot make that she is not the flock of Christ. The knot here to be unloosed, is your sin in charging that upon the Nonconformists, the contrary whereto they have ever maintained.  
Fourthly, In the true Church of Christ, the true doctrine of Jesus Christ, the Prophets and Apostles in matters fundamental is kept, but so as the living members may err both in doctrine and manners, and others in society with them may err grossly, impenitently, finally. And thus the Church of England doth keep the doctrine of 
w Chaloner. Credo Sanct. 2 part, subject. The church in respect of its outward part (as it enters the Creed) is not only an outward profession of a doctrine or discipline, but a profession of the same under the notion of truth. And that the Church in this sense is invisible. Gregory de Valent. confess. in his third Tom. upon Thomas disp. 1 qu. 1. pag. 7. sect. 16. and Bellarm. in his third Book de Eccles. ca 15. Bilson Christ. subject. par. 3. pag. 305. The visible Church consisting of good and bad, elect & reprobate, hath no such promise, but she may err: only the chosen of christ, which are the true members of his body, properly called his Church, they shall not err unto perdition, etc.  Christ, the Prophets and Apostles entirely without addition or alteration, though in the government and administration there be many things amiss; though in the society there be many who be not qualified as sheep, humble and meek, but fierce and cruel.  
Fifthly, No society is the Church of Christ, which retaineth not the true worship of God, but in the true Church of God, his pure worship may be stained with rites and ceremonies, which might well be spared, and are justly disliked. Thus both Conformists and Nonconformists, and all other sorts and sects of men. And thus in the Church of England, the true worship of God is for substance rightly maintained, though the Nonconformists dislike, and the Conformists groan under some ceremonies not abandoned, The only knot here to be unloosed again is your slander against the Nonconformists, in that you charge them to say, that the Church of England doth not retain the true worship of God.  
And now I shall desire you calmly to consider how according to your principles you can untie a knot or two, if they should be knit for you in this wise.  
First, He is no true Pastor of Jesus Christ, who grossly perverteth the Scripture, falsifieth Authors, deceiveth with equivocations, condemneth the true worship of God as pernicious idolatry, and the 
x Jewel upon the first to the Thes. chap. 1. v. 1. The Church of God is in God the Father, and in the Lord jesus Christ; it is the company of the faithful, whom. God hath gathered together in Christ, by his Word, and by the holy Ghost, to honour him, as he himself hath appointed. This Church heareth the voice of the Shepherd. It will not follow a stranger, but flieth from him. Of this Church. Hieron. in Mic. lib. 1. cap. 1. saith, Ecclesia Christi in toto orbe Ecclesias possidens, etc.  societies of Saints as idolatrous and Antichristian Assemblies, and laboureth to draw Christians from the communion of Saints, which ought to be kept and maintained. Examine your writings in the fear of God, and add the proposition wanting.  
Secondly, He is no true Minister who derives his authority from them that are not able to give it. But he that derives his authority from the people, derives it from them that have no authority to give it. You know the conclusion, and where it will light.  
Thirdly, The true Church of God is the true flock of Christ, the King's Daughter, quickened by the Spirit, married unto Christ, gentle, meek, humble, retaining the true worship of God, without addition or alteration, and keeping the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace; But the society of Separatists is not the true flock of Christ, quickened by the Spirit, humble, meek, gentle, keeping the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace. These properties do not agree to all and every one in that society in truth, according as in the former propositions, you say, they belong to the true Church of God. If you shall be able to maintain the former propositions against men, as you vaunt, I do not believe you shall be able to unloose these few knots.     

CHAP. V.  

SECT. I.  
IT may be some will expect that I should write something of their Lecturers; 
Can. Neces. of Separate. pag. 49, 50.  and the rather because they in the judgement of many, are thought to be the best Ministers. Of their life and doctrine I say nothing. But as for their Ministry, surely it is new and strange. For the Original of their name, manner of entrance, and Administration, is unknown wholly to the Scriptures, and I think never before heard of, till in these latter broken and confused times. Therefore it is no marvel, when the Question hath been propounded to some of them, as it was by the Pharisees to John, Who art thou? That they have not been able for their life to answer to answer the point. Neither could agree among themselves what kind of Ministry it is that they have taken up. And being hard pressed for resolution, they have ingenuously confessed, that unless they be Evangelists, they could not see how their Ministry doth accord with any Ministry mentioned in the New Testament. This I writ upon my own certain knowledge, the persons I think are yet living, whose names for some reason I forbear to express. Howbeit, I can and will do it if I see there be a just and necessary occasion.  
I do not think it strange that they should thus speak: for indeed I know not what they can say better in defence of their standing. Pastors, I am sure, they will not say they are: For,  
First, They do not take any particular charge of a flock upon them.  
Secondly, They perform not the office thereof, for they agree with the people only to preach, and not to administer either the seals or censures to them.  
Thirdly, Their coming unto the people is in a strange sort: for they make a covenant each with other for some certain years, and when that time is out, both parties are free, and so may leave one the other, and do many times: but a true Pastor may not do so: For if he should he were worse than an hireling which leaves not the sheep till he see the Wolf coming. But many of these when they see a richer Lectureship coming towards them.  
Fourthly, He that is a Parson or Vicar, is taken generally for the Minister of the place. And truly, howsoever their calling be false and Anttchristian (as the Nonconformists say) yet in many respects they do better resemble a true Minister than any Lecturer whatsoever. Therefore not without just cause, 
Neces. of Discipl. pag. 74.  do the Reformists utterly condemn this extraordinary office of Preachers: And affirm, that they are neither Pastors nor Teachers which the Scripture alloweth of.  

ANSWER.  
THis point concerning Lecturers, I have purposely deferred unto this place, because it is distinct from the former in your apprehension, and in this you do not pretend the Nonconformists principles, as you did in the former. The exceptions also which you take against them, are not in respect of gifts, learning, or diligence, nor that they are brought into the Church by Antichrist, but chief in respect of the office and Ministry itself. That which you object concerning the name, that it is new (as you do before against Parsons, Vicars, and Curates, that they are Popish) is too slight to be insisted upon. For these and divers other names or titles given to the Preachers of the Word, do not note different Ministeries for substance and kind, but different accidents whereby the Ministers are distinguished, and sometimes the employment whereabout they are principally exercised. But the Ministry which is exercised under those names, is for substance one and the same, which Christ hath appointed and set his Church. If any man hath not been able to answer this Question when it hath been propounded, what kind of Ministry the Lecturers have taken up, it was from his weakness, not from the difficulty of the matter. And this is no marvel, seeing many Questions seem Riddles to you, which very easily untie themselves, or be knit in conceit only. As to the Papists many Questions touching the certainty of our Religion, the calling of our Ministers, the continuance of the faith, seeming indissoluble, which a true hearted Christian can quickly dissolve. But you writ upon certain knowledge, that some have ingenuously confessed, that unless they be Evangelists, they could not see how their Ministry doth accord with any Ministry mentioned in the New Testament.  
I am not so diffident as to distrust every word that is spoken, nor must I be so simple as to believe every thing. In the quoting of men's words in writing, and giving the sense of them, I find you trip so often ignorantly or upon set purpose; and so many times to quote that as making for you, which is as direct against you as can be spoken, that without breach of charity, I may suspect some such thing in this particular; either that you mistook their meaning, or misrelate their words, or set down your own consequence for their position, or the like. Instances of your mistaking enough hath been formerly mentioned, in this very place there be two of no small note, nor hard to be disproved. First you say, The Nonconformists condemn the calling of Parsons and Vicars (their office you mean) as false and Antichristian. But their practice and profession both, doth evidence the contrary to the whole world, as hath been showed. And if you will mistake their writings so palpably and again and again affirm them from their writings, what is not there to be found, but is direct contrary to their judgement, writing and practice, how can we believe that you truly report their words. Secondly, you say; The Reformists do utterly condemn this extraordinary office of Preachers. Lecturers you understand by extraordinary Preachers; but extraordinary they are not, either in respect of their calling, or the work wherein they are employed. And the Nonconformists are so fare from condemning that office, that it is well known many, if not the greatest part of them, had none other calling, or office in the Church. And I presume every reasonable man, will conceive it an unlikely thing, that so many godly and learned men, suffering many and great troubles against other abuses, should choose to live in such a calling, against the light of their conscience. 
Can. Neces of ●parat. pag. 〈◊〉 & 210. 2●3. If Dr. And 〈◊〉 not boasted of 〈◊〉 man's book, etc. Id. pag. 224 This is the book which Mr. Paget upbraids us with. Arr. against Separate. pag. 38.  And you know some have maintained, (whose judgement therein and works are approved by others of the same rank,) That the Ministry of godly Preachers (and so of Lecturers) in the Church of England, in all substantial and essential parts, is that very Ministry which Christ hath instituted and ordained in the New Testament, and which he hath blessed for the gathering and building forward of his Church in faith and holiness.  
It is not then the common judgement of the Reformists, nor the private opinion of any particular man of that mind, that I have seen or heard of, that the office or calling of a Lecturer is utterly to be condemned. Who the Author is, or what the work which you quote, entitled, The Necessity of Discipline, I know not, nor what he saith.  
Perhaps you allege him, as you have done others wrongfully; It may be he speaks of some circumstances, not of the substance of the calling. If he go any further, it is his private conceit, and must not be imputed to the Reformists, as you style them.  
We need not here dispute of the difference, betwixt the Pastor and the Teacher, nor to inquire whether of these they are to be esteemed, until the difference betwixt them be exactly defined, and substantially proved: If for substance of Ministry they do the work of the Lord Jesus, and by his approbation, this sufficeth.  
First then here it is to be noted, that the Officers of the Church are not so distinguished by heir special limits and bounds, but the superior may do the office of the rest, if necessity require. As if the society be small, meet Officers cannot be had, or be wanting for a time, or taken away by death, The Pastor may supply the room of the Teacher, Elder, or Deacon, that is, he may teach, watch over the manners of the people, and take special care of the poor, as the Apostles did for a time.  
Secondly, If the Pastor be aged, weak, sickly, unable to bear the burden of his charge alone, he may take unto him, with consent of the society and college Ecclesiastical, Assisters or Helpers; 
Videl. in Ignat: ad Mariam. exercit. 3.   tam praesentes in urbe sublevarentur, quam ut absentibus ipsis, Ecclesiae pastoribus destituta non esset, delegerunt (scil. Apostoli) sibi coadjutores: Quod nominatim ex Epiphanio heres. 
Sozom. hist. lib. 2. cap. 19 Euseb. lib. 6. ca 10. Gr.  27. apparet. Tales fuerunt hi tres, Clemens, Linus, Cletus, Aut, ut noster Author ait, Anacletus. So Maximus helped Macarius until his death; and Augustine Valerius. And if the Pastor be careless or negligent, it is lawful for the people to provide for themselves, by the best means that they can, or God is pleased to afford unto them, that they might be taught and instructed in the ways of holiness.  
Thirdly, Pastors are to feed the flock committed unto their care, yet so as many Pastors may be set over one flock, which they must feed in common. And to this purpose some write, 
A dispute, par. 3. cap. 8. pag. 170.  that the Apostolic and Primitive times, knew neither Parishional nor Diocesan Churches, but Christians lived then in Cities only, not in Villages because of the persecution. 
Act. 20.27, 28. Phil. 1.1. 1 Thes. 5.12. Act. 13.2. & 15.2. Col. 4.11. james 5.14. Epiphan. haeres. 27. Ignat. ad Tralleus. Sozom. li. 4. ca 14. Euseb. hist. lib. 6. cap. 10, 11. Gr. ca 9 lat. Gratian. Decret. part 2. cap 7. qu. 1. can. 12.  And it is to be remembered, that in Rome, Corinth, Ephesus, Philippi, Colosse, Thessalonica, and such other Cities, inhabited by Christians, there were more Pastors than one, which did in common govern all the Churches within that City, and there was not any one Pastor, who by himself, governed a certain part of the City peculiarly assigned to his charge. Thus also the Ancients writ, that Peter and Paul, were the first Bishops and Apostles at Rome. Paul had Linus and Timothy; Peter, Clemens and Anacletus. Liberius and Felix, both governed the Apostolical Seat: Valerius and Augustine, Narcissus and Alexander in the Church of Hippo. It is apparent, the Apostles ordained many Overseers in one society, and it is not repugnant either to Scripture or reason, to think there might be many Pastors of one flock; And the flock might be one under the joint care of many Shepherds, 
Bilson. perpet. Gover. ca 10. pa. 155. Every church with them had many Prophets, Pastors and Teachers, the number and need of the people, and time so requiring. T. C. repl. l. pa. 34.  though they did not ordinarily meet together in one place. For to assemble together in one place, is merely accidental to the unity of a society: Certain it is, in times of persecution they cannot so meet; and it is most probable, in the Apostles times, many Churches were too populous in that manner to assemble together. Those that know the state of France in time of persecution, do well understand that every Church almost was gathered of Towns, whereof some were six miles, some seven, some more from the place of meeting, and keeping their Congregations. And therefore could not meet so often, nor know one another so well, as we by the grace of God may do.  
Fourthly, No one Pastor or Teacher hath the power of the censures belonging unto him, and whether the power of dispensing the Seals belong to every Minister of the Gospel, I leave it to your consideration, (for I know not what you will resolve) but the actual dispensation of the Seals may be forborn by some, to whom the right of dispencing doth appertain, specially when there be others at hand to do that office. The Apostles had power to baptise, 
1 Cor. 1.14, 15, 16. Can. Neces. of Separate. pag. 236.  but we may well think, they did not ordinarily baptise themselves. It is possible (you say) a man may be a true Ecclesiastical Officer, and yet never do the services thereof.  
Fifthly, The Minister of the Gospel is not made absolutely a Minister by the choice or election of this or that people, but only their Minister for the time of his abode and continuance with them. Lay these things together, and then your exceptions against the office of Lecturers will vanish. For if they have not the chief charge or cure of souls, they be not sole Pastors or Teachers of the flock; but joined in care or charge with others as Helpers or Assistants, or chosen by the people to supply the want of such as should, but do not feed the flock. If they dispense not the Seals, neither is that necessary in respect of their standing: for right and power from Christ they have to dispense them, but in the execution of that power they may be hindered, or forbear it for a time. If they leave their place being lawfully called to another flock, it may be with consent of the society and of the Church, and what then doth make it unlawful? or if the charge should be unlawful, it doth not make the Ministry strange or new, which is the thing in question.    

SECT. II.  
THat Ministry which is instituted and set up besides those which God hath appointed in his Word, 
Neces. of Separate. pag. 51, 52.  is unlawful and false. But the Ministry of Lecturers in England is instituted and set beside these, which God hath appointed in his Word. Therefore that Ministry is unlawful and false. The proposition is plain and undeniable, and we have their own words to confirm it. For thus they say, All the Ministry is by the Word of God, and not left to the will of man to devise at their pleasure, as appeareth by that which is noted of John, where the Pharisees coming to him, after that he had denied to be either Christ, or Elias, or another Prophet, conclude if he be neither Christ nor Elias, nor of the Prophets, why baptizest thou? Which had been no good argument, if John might have been of other function, than of those which were ordinary in the Church, 
T. C. repl, 1. pa. 62, 63.  and instituted of God, etc. Again to devise another Ministry, than that which God hath appointed, is condemned by the second Commandment.  
The Assumption is thus proved. First if their Lecturers have taken ordination from the Bishops, and exercise by that power only, then is their office false, by the reasons before laid down. Secondly, If it be objected, that they never received the Prelate's orders, or have repent thereof, I answer, This proves not that they are therefore true Ministers. For as Jehu, though he did well to suppress Ahabs' idolatry, yet in that he followed the ways of Jeroboam, he himself continued still a gross Idolater: Even so; howsoever some may privately report, that they stand Ministers by no relation to the Bishops, yet are they notwithstanding unlawful Ministers, seeing they were never elected, chosen, ordained according to God's Word. If any reply, that they have their calling of the people: I answer, the thing is surely otherwise, as shall be manifested presently. But if this were granted, yet I deny that any Church under heaven, hath power from Christ to ordain such a kind of Ministry, and therefore if any people should do it, seeing it is against the Scripture, it must needs follow, that it is an unlawful Ministry, and so consequently not to be communicated with.  

ANSWER.  
YOu are strangely taken with this note; for you have brought nothing but a bare repetition, of what you have said over and over. If you speak of the substantial and essential parts of the Ministry, it is freely granted, that the true Ministry is by the word of God, and heavenly. But if you extend it to every circumstantial order, whereby in this or that Society, the Minister is to execute the function he hath received of God, it is not approved. But of this you need not to have made so many words. To your assumption, answer hath been returned already.  
First, That the Ministers of the Gospel receive their office and authority, neither from the Bishop, Patron, people, or College Ecclesiastical, but from Christ immediately, whose servants they are, in whose name they minister, whose flock they attend, and who hath assigned them their work. And if you receive your Ministry from the people, as their servant, from whom you derive your office and authority, and from whom you receive your Commission; your Ministry in that respect is no less false and antichristian, than theirs that derive it from the Bishops.  
Secondly, If Lecturers have received ordination from the Bishops, and be called and chosen by the people, their calling is just and lawful, according to the rules of Scripture, and their Ministry heavenly and from above, if they preach the entire faith, and feed the flock of God. For they preach the pure doctrine of salvation, not by authority from men, but by commission from the chief Shepherd and Bishop of our souls: their calling may be justified by the Word and warrant of truth, which shall stand for ever; the more heinous and fearful is your sin, in matching the Ministry of such men, to the idolatry of Jehu.  
Thirdly, You are bold to affirm, That no Church under Heaven, hath power from Christ to ordain such a kind of Ministry, etc. And it is true, the Church hath no power to ordain any Ministry; for Christ is the Author and institutor of the Ministry for his Church. But your meaning is, That this kind of Ministry is against the Scripture not ordained, and then if we call for your proof, we have nothing here, but I deny it. 
Can. Neces. of Separate. pag. 217.  You take up Mr Br. (how well it becomes you, let the Reader judge) as a bold Sophister, because he makes flat denial of expressed truths. As thus, I say it is false, I deny it, etc. As if the weight of an argument were sufficiently removed by empty denials. But when you should make proof of what you affirm, it sufficeth you to say I deny, or this proves it not: or I have proved from their writings; when you have falfified them only. And if an empty denial be not sufficient answer to an empty affirmation, it is very strange. 
Bilson Christ. subject. par. 1. p. 41.  I may justly say to you, as Dr Bilson to the Papist whom he answered; If great vaunts were sound proofs, the victory were yours; you have words and cracks at will, they cost you nothing.    

SECT. III.  
THat it is so I prove it thus; 
Neces. of Separate. pag. 53.  That Ministry is unlawful, which none may lawfully give. But none may lawfully bestow the Ministry of a Lecturer. Therefore that Ministry is unlawlawfull. The Assumption for shame cannot be denied, if the nature of it be considered. For as we but even now said, their Lecturers take no charge of a flock upon them, they make covenant we●h the people, but for a certain time; the peculiar work of a Minister is not by the people laid upon them, whither expected of them. If any object, that they preach the Word. To this Dr Aims giveth an answer fully, that the preaching of the Gospel is not a work peculiar to a Minister: for such as are private men, and out of office, may and aught to preach the Word, as occasion is offered, and not only privately, but, saith he, in the public Congregation, etc.  

ANSWER.  
WE have here the same thing over again, and when all is said, it is but this, I deny it, or I say it. The assumption cannot for shame be denied. The proposition rightly understood is true and sound, but it may carry divers constructions. As first, the meaning may be, That Ministry is for substance unlawful, which none may lawfully give to such or such persons, scil. to such as be unfit or profane. And in this sense, the proposition is not sound. For the Ministry is unlawfully committed to an ungodly man, an hypocrite, but the Ministry itself is heavenly, and from above. Or the sense may be, That Ministry is unlawful which men may not lawfully give virtually or formally: And then it is weak; For Pastors and Teachers are the gifts of Christ unto his Church, from whom they receive their office, and not from men, Or it may bear this sense. That Ministry is unlawful, which none may lawfully give in such form, and manner, as it is executed? And then it is liable to exception. For of right the power of administration of the Seals and Censures of the Church, belong to the Pastors, Teachers, and Governors of the Church; when in the execution of this office, they may be hindered. It is lawful to be an assistant or helper to a Pastor for a time, when it is not lawful to give the office of Ministry to a man for a time only, and then to expire. To the assumption; The Lecturers of whom we speak, have derived their office from the Lord Jesus Christ, by the Ministry of his Church, as instruments, their entrance into it lawful, the service and work itself holy, the manner of performing it warrantable, and the authority they have received the same which Christ hath communicated to the Ministers of the Gospel. To publish the truth by way of instruction or exhortation, is not peculiar to the Ministers of the Gospel, but by authority, 〈…〉 ●●culiar to the Minister. For the Scripture joineth together the preaching of the Word, and dispensation of the Seals, as both belonging to the Officers, 
Math. 28.19. 1 Cor. 1.  who have received commission from Jesus Christ. And if private persons may preach the Word in this sense, we see no reason why they may not administer the Sacraments likewise, and so the Governors of the Church shall have power to do nothing, which every private member of the society may not do as well as they. But Lecturers preach the Gospel by authority, and as men set in office by the Lord of the harvest. And this may suffice to show the vanity of such exceptions as are taken against our Church, Ministry, and worship, to prove it to be no true Church, worship, and Ministry; and how untruly and unjustly the Nonconformists are charged to lay the grounds of that 〈◊〉 and affected Separation, which some have run into. To examine what argument is returned to Dr Aims, Mr Daw: Mr Br: is needless; for nothing of weight is said against them, but the same things vainly repeated, with insolent scoffs and reproaches, as if by evil speaking you hoped to get the victory. It is to be observed generally you say, 
Can. Neces. of Separate. pag. 211.  that those which stand for bad causes do after this sort still reproach the Adversaries. Thus do the Papists the Protestants, so the Protestants the Puritans, and so they us, as here and in other writings usually. Now I would entreat you to review your two books, and speak in good earnest, whether in scoffing, reproaching, falsifications, you do not ordinarily exceed all men that ever you met withal; Consider seriously, and then let conscience be Judge, whether it be the note of a good or evil cause, etc.     
FINIS.   

A Table of some principal Points handled in this Treatise.  

In the first Part.  
Concerning a false Ministry, and communicating therein, p. 3, 4.  
Nonconformists lay not the grounds of Separation, by complaining of the abuses in our Church, p. 20, 21.  
From whence the outward calling of a Minister is derived. p. 24, 25.  
Herein a distinction is considerable, betwixt an error in admission into an office, and a flat nullity of the office itself, p. 29.  
Who are not, and who are Antichristian teachers, p. 41.  
The true nature of worship, and what it is to worship God in a right manner, p. 43.  
Of an Idol Church and Ministry, p. 45.  
Places of public worship allowed and prohibited unto Isr●ell●, p. 59  
Of worshipping God in a true Church, p. 61.  
Our Churches are not to be reputed spiritual Babylon, p. 69.  
Concerning Churches true and false, p. 71,  
Corrupt mixtures in true Churches, p. 81.  
The nature of superstition, p. 89.  
Of Ordination received from Bishops, p. 93.  
Concerning presence at God's true worship, where something is faulty in the Ministers calling, and the ●ann●r of administration, p. 105.  
Some things may stain, which yet overthrew not the Ministry, p. 119.  
From whence the Ministers of the Gospel derive their office, p. 126.  
The Minister's ignorance and scandalous life doth not nullify his Ministry, p. 128.  
Some touch given of Master Cannes gross abuse of philosophical Canons, and of some Authors by him cited, p. 132, 133, 134, etc.  
When Ministers may be said to run, though not sent, p. 139.  
Foreign reformed Churches acknowledge us the true Churches of Christ p. 141.  
The Ministers calling is not to be judged by the titles of Parson, Vicar, etc. p. 143.   

In the second Part.  
THe lawfulness of set forms of prayer, p. 3.  
Nonconformists never utterly condemned any use of our Common Prayer Book, p. 7, & 15, 16.  
Nor allowed separation because of some abuses, p. 20, 22.  
The discussing and discovering of that argument used against the Common prayer book, viz. that it was taken out of the Mass Book. 9, 10, 11, 12.  
The pressing of subscription in the tenth year of Queen Elizabeth, caused separation, and other troubles in our Church, p. 13.  
The antiquity of set Liturgies, p. 17.  
Concerning idols, and separation from them, p. 23, 24, 25.  
Of discipline how far necessary in a Church, and how wanting amongst us, p. 33, 35, 37. etc.  
Concerning the matter, and manner of gathering Churches, 50, unto 64 etc.  
The office of Lecturers justified. p. 84.   
FINIS.   


Errata in Part 1.  
Page 2, line 1, put out, shall. p. 7, Marg. l. last, add lib. 1. p. 8. marg. at end, ad●e et Repl. 1. p. 33. p. 9 marg. add hoc autem. p. 11. marg. add jer. 23.11.34. Esa. 28.7.9. jer. 23.16.17. p. 44. l. 4. add in. p. 54. l. 14. add the most of. p. 53 l. 11. for neither read either. p. 57 l. 12. for rome, r. say. l. 17. our ministry is, insert, true, though. p. 62. l. 25. put out, not. p. 64. l. 7. add sani. p. 80. l. 32. add in marg. 3. p. 90. l. 12. read shaft. p. 100 l. last. for answered, r. censured, p. 105. l. 4. unto general add rules, p. 108. l. 1. for it is, r. is it. p. 139. l. 37. put out, nor, p. 140. l. 30. add, it.   

In part 2.  
P. 7. l. 18. put out, have. p. 11. l. 34. for made, r. makes. p. 13. l. 24. for former matter, r. form or matter. p. 16. l. 4. add into. p. 26. l. 31. for when, r. then. p. 38. l. 7. for constitution r. institution. p. 50. l. 25. for dare r. do. p. 52. l. 6. for promised. r. purchased. p. 55. l. 6. for more r. most. p. 72. l. 23. for more, r. were. p. 73. l. 11. for dissevered r, discovered. p. 74, last line r. Anabaptistae: p: 84: l: 12: add in.