Certain seasonable CONSIDERATIONS AND REASONS HUMBLY OFFERED, AGAINST Reviving the Act, Entitled, An Act for the better Propagation and Preaching of the Gospel in Wales, and redress of some Grievance there.  
Presented to the Supreme Authority the Parliament of the Commonwealth of ENGLAND. WITH Wholesome PROPOSALS, touching the future disposal of the powers given by the said ACT.  
THis Act vesteth in the Commissionere named in that Act, a double power, 

1. Ecclesiastic.  
2. Civil.    
Ecclesiastic; To amove from, and confer Ecclesiastical promotions, etc. and to dispose of the Church Revenue.  
Observation. 

1. Wales having been many ages since happily incorporated with England, and governed by the same Laws, as well those of the Church, as Civil, by this Act are governed by distinct Laws, which in this conjunction of time may not give that public satisfaction.  

2. If this Act is for the better Propagation of the Gospel in Wales, than the general Act for all England is, it must be either because of the matter of this Act, or the manner of proceed thereupon, or some other peculiar Circumstances.  
The matter thereof is, To amove from, and confer Ecclesiastical promotions, etc.   
3. The very same matter is vested in the honourable Committee for Plundered Ministers at Westminster, for the disposal of promotions in England; and the persons of that Committee are all Members of Parliament. The greatest part of the Commissioners in the aforesaid Act for Wales, yea, all that meet to act by virtue thereof, except two persons, are not members of Parliament, and in regard of their several relations and Interests, if not Judgements, are the rather subject to partialities.  
4. Neither is their meeting in Wales a lessening of Charge; their meeting in Southwales being at Swanzey, in North-wales at Wrexam, 70 miles distant from the persons that are many times summoned to attend them; The Committee for Plundered Ministers being far more certain, and quicker for their dispatches, and more moderate for Fees allowed to their Officers.  
5. It is unusual in the English Government to make Natives judges in their own Counties, & (under favour) at this time most unseasonable, the late differences having rendered Neighbours and Countrymen less affectionate to each other than formerly, and such power may occasion private vindication more than discharging public Trust, especially (as it is observed) in many of the Welsh Nation, so impower'd.  
6. The Commissioners named in the said Act are to act in any part of Southwales & North-wales, so, that it iss possible that those Commissioners living in the remotest place of Southwales may summon persons living in the remotest parts of North-wales, and so those of North-wales the Inhabitants of Southwales.  
7. The persons of Southwales nominated Commissioners in the said Act, are for the most part from two Counties, (1) Brecknock, Caermarthen, Pembroke and Cardigan having but 5 Commissioners inhabiting in them.    
The manner of proceeding directed by the Act is 

1. That 5 Commissioners may examine and eject, etc.  
2. That 12 (upon the Ejecteds' complaints) might review, and determine.  
3. That 12 (upon the Ejecteds appeal) are to transfer, and certify the proceed to the Committee for plundered Ministers.    
It is humbly observed, 

1. That 12 did very rarely meet, the time and place of meeting not usually published, nor generally known, the propagators living very remote one from another, and the Itinerants' residence appointed for approvers altogether uncertain, one while in one Country, another while in another Country, and in no place certain.  
2. If they meet, it is probable that the same 12 that adjudged a Cause, would not transfer and certify against their own judgements: And in case of refusal there is no provision in the Act to enforce them, and during the three years' time this Act continued, notwithstanding the many hundreds that were ejected, we find few or any cause upon an appeal (though importunately desired) certified by the Commissioners.  
3. In Case the Commissioners did transfer and certify the proceed before them to the Committee for plundered Ministers; yet the Act disabled the Appellant to examine any more witnesses; and it is possible, that, the depositions so transferred and certified were not laid down and certified according to the Examinants' intentions, many, if not most of the persons examined against ejected Ministers, being illiterate men, ignorant of the English tongue, whereof many do complain, and thereby may be uncapable to make their just defence: and if any did appeal whether the remedy may prove worse than the disease, considering how difficult it will be for a poor man (disabled of means to defray necessary charges incident thereto) to recall & annihilate that sentence or judgement given be it never so injurious, the very Fifts allowed the ejected Ministers Wives by the Act of Parliament being either denied them or allowed according to the Sequestrators undervaluations, whereby they are so far disabled of means to appeal that many of them are ready to perish for want of bread.  
4. That these triennial powers are of dangerous consequence, if the persons entrusted misuse, nonuse, or abuse their power, and those several powers continuing for three years may prove a temptation for honest men to act contrary to their Principles: wherefore it hath been the wisdom of Commonwealths to prevent those inconveniences by changing their powers often, and not giving them too much power at once, or giving them but a short time to act, the better to mind them that their power is not perpetual, and that they must shortly give an account of their stewardships, for at the the third years end the oppressor may be so rich and powerful, 
It is worthy to be remembered that these 3 latens od●um juvenile concilium, & P●●vatum lucrum, overthrew the flourishing estate of the Roman Empire.  and the oppressed so poor and unable, that the party injuring may easily suppress and silence the cry of the party injured, whereras judges have their Commissions but quam diuse benè gesserint or durante benè placito; the Council of State continues but for a year without new election; and all Mayors, Sheriffs, & Bailiffs, are annually chosen and appointed, and liable to give an account of their actions in the precedent year of their power, and it is likewise desired to be considered that oppression and the abuse of powers have been the great billows of the several wars and commotions not only in Wales but also in this whole nation.    
The Civil power by the said Act vested in the Commissioners is a Power 

1 To be Arbitrators.  
2 To be a Committee of Indemnity.    
Arbitrators in these words, A power to inquire and redress high misdemeanours, oppressions, and injuries, often escaping unpunished, because of remoteness from London, and want of means in the party Complaining to be redressed by due course of Law, and the persons complaining, and Complayneds submission, under their Hands and Seals to determine the same.  
It is humbly observed, 


Quicquid ●gas prudenter agas & respice finem sapiens incipit à sine  1. That upon this power of enquiring and redressing, the party complained on, may by this power be compelled to submit, or not; if not, this power is for no other use than to occasion expense of time and moneys, in attendance upon summons; and in case the Commissioners therein named, have no power to try any matter by bill, indictment, information, or original writ, or by verdict, demurrer, or examination of Witnesses on oath, or to force the performance of their Adwards'; this power must needs prove useless, troublesome, and chargeable; and that which can attain to no reasonable end, the Law rejects as a thing inutile and useless.  
2. If the party complained upon may by this act be compelled to submit, than the Justices of Assize, and of Peace, offices are swallowed up by this power, and without verdict, causes always determinable by verdict are adjudged; which bridgeth a contest betwixt the Judges and Justice's power and the Commissioners, 
Vide the Lord Cooks Exposition of the 29th Chapter of Magna Charta in his 2 part Insti●utes fo. 51 concerning the arbitrary proceeding of Empson and Dudley who were justly executed for it.  their jurisdiction being not distinguished, and suitors thereby confounded, and liable to unnecessary charges and trouble; and by such a power, an Arbitrary power of a Star-chamber might probably be exercised, judgements and decrees attained, and the ancient way of trials by jury destroyed; the Commissioners (those that act) being not bred in the Laws, and therefore not so competent to judge of Adwards', and penal Laws, as Judges are, neither are the Commissioners (as ludges be) upon their Oaths, in discharging this great trust, for any thing appearing in the said act; and by the Law all Arbitrators ought to be indifferently chosen: the persons named in the said Act were not chosen by the Countries, who were ignorant thereof until the Act was published, most of the Counties having no Representatives in Parliament to speak for them at the passing thereof, who have since declared their dislike of the execution thereof.    
It is observed, 

3 That remoteness from London is not much more from any parts of Wales, than from some parts of Wales to those places where the Commissioners meet, and the uncertainty and unfrequency of their meetings, extraordinary delays and excessive fees, have given cause for many to believe that this course is the remotest and most chargeable way for redressing of grievances.    
As to their power of Committee of Indemnity, it is likewise humbly observed, 

1 That the party Complaining, upon the Complayneds refusal to submit to the Commissioners Arbitration, may receive encouragement to implead the party Complained before the Commissioners as Committee of Indemnity, who may as Committee of Indemnity (though not as Arbitrators) enforce submission and obedience. What hath happened there this three last years of that nature, is not proper to be here inserted, since the Act of Oblivion hath pardoned both the offences and offenders.  

Qui facit per alium facit per se. And Act of Parliament that a man shall be judge in his own cause is a void Act.  2 The Act of Oblivion having ended most matters properly determinable by the Committee of Indemnity there, the continuance of that power can prove for no other use, than to inincourage litigious persons to molest their neighbours; and indeed nothing is properly determinable before them but what must relate to those that now act under them, by colour of their several powers, Military, Civil, and Ecclesiastical.  
3 Those of Southwales have the command of the Military power now on foot there; the power of justices of Peace, Commissioners for Propagation, for Arbitration, and Indemnity; Commissioners of monthly Assessments, and of Sequestrations of Papists and Delinquents Estates, and for the most part of very near kin and alliance to each other; Lessors and Lessees by their near friends and agents of the most and best Ecclesiastic Promotions and Sequestered Estates there, the power Civil, Martial, and Ecclesiastic, in the same persons, subservient to one another, to the too hasty and visible improvement of particular men's fortunes; and how these ways of accumulating all these powers in thirteen Counties, into the hands of a few particular persons (upon any pretence whatsoever) are consistent with the wisdom and policy of a State, and the welfare of Wales, is humbly left to your honours grave consideration.  
4 It is worth the taking notice of, that those persons from Wales, that appear in soliciting the continuance of this Act, are (for the most part) either persons formerly nominated in the said Act, or Perners of the profit of the Ecclesiastic revenue, or having relation to those that enjoy the same. And it is humbly desired, that the worthy Members of Parliament will take notice of the carriage of three of the itinerant Approbationers at the Parliament Door, Friday the 25 of March instant, to beg the renewing of the Act, and whether it better becomed them to be preaching the word in Wales, where there is a scarcity of Preachers, than to spend their time in London, to solicit the continuance of their former power and advantage.    
Quaerie 1 
Touching the ecclesiastical powers.  It is humbly prayed it may be considered whether the Commissioners named in the said Act walked with such rigidness in the ejecting of the former Ministers, and Schoolmasters, that small offences of 10 or 20 years standing were freshly arraigned as Capital crimes and small crimes unpardonable, without respects to their abilities, parts, and readiness to conform, and become more serviceable for the future to the Church & State under the present established government, and whether humane prudence, if not Christian Charity should have induced them to continue the most able, conformable, and best qualified of them, that never personally acted against the Parliament, at least wise, until they could provide better in their rooms, and not to leave the Country naked, and not above three or four to supply some Counties, and whether there be 700 parishes besides Chapels of ease in Southwales, and above 600 of them unsupplied, to the famine of the word of God, and that many of the Itinerants, and Schoolmasters, now employed and suffered to officiate, be not more scandalous than some of those ejected, and some that bore arms against the Parliament, and a Papist in the town of Brecknock that keeps school, and whether jesuits and Seminary Priests were not discharged in Monmouthshire, without being proceeded against according to the Law of the Land.  
Quaerie 2 Whether the Commissioners for propagation make an account but of 19000 l. or thereabouts, for the tithes etc. in the said 7 Counties for 2 years, and do by answer say the Fifts and contributions are not fully known nor allowed, and that they have not money to pay the Ministers approbationers, if so, what propagation or better supply the said Counties are like to have for the future, if their power be renewed, and how well they have disposed of the tithes, whether or no the Petitioners offer 20000 l. for the tithes for one year which is more by 20000 l. then the Commissioners account for 2 years, as by the particulars and reply of the Petitioners of the 6 Counties of Southwales and County of Monmouth lodged with the Honourable Committee of Plundered ministers may more fully appear.  
Quaerie 3 It is humbly desired that the honourable Parliament will take notice, That the Commissioners answer was reported, before a Copy thereof granted the Petitioners; A particular Book of account of 60 sheets of paper mentioned in the report, before a sight and Copy thereof likewise granted, though the Petitioners moved for it; An information against John Gunter reported before he was summoned to answer the same, or had a Copy thereof. The particulars and Reply lodged by the Petitioners with the honourable Committee, (whereupon the Petitioners craved a Commission to examine Witnesses) left out of the Report, though once ordered to be reported; And this Report made before any one Witness examined, or Commission issued forth. And until Commissions be issued forth, and Witnesses examined, whereby matter of fact may appear, It is humbly left to your Honour's consideration, whether your Honours will think fit to continue the same powers on the same persons, since their proceed for the last 3 years have given so little satisfaction to the Country and the State, in relation to the vast revenues there received.  


Proposals humbly offered touching the future disposal of the power given by the said Act.  
1. It is therefore humbly offered to your Honour's grave Consideration, whether or no it be not more of public conveniency, That the power Ecclesiastic given by the said Act be vested in the honourable Committee for Plundered Ministers, the Lords Commissioners of the Great Seal of England for the time being, and Sir John Thorowgood, and other the trusties named in an Act of the 8th of June, 1649. Entitled, An Act for providing Maintentanance for Preaching Ministers, and other pious uses, in the same manner as it is already in England versted upon the said honourable persons, being persons of known integrity and honour, and not of such personal relations in Wales, with such special power and direction therein for the better carrying on and managing of so great and weighty a work, as to your Honour's wisdom shall seem meet.  
2. That as to the power given by the said Act to the Commissioners therein named to Act as Committee of Indemnity, for as much as the Parliament have by their several Acts of the 23. of June, and the 8. of October 1652. vested the same in Samuel Moyer Esq; and other the Commissioners therein named, as well in England as in Wales; It is humbly left to consideration, whether the same power may not be still continued in the said persons.  
3. As to the power given by the said Act for Arbitration, For as much as the Parliament have appointed judges, justices of Peace, and other Magistrates in Wales, and elsewhere, to execute the Laws of the Land by safe and settled rules, entrusted in discreet persons bred in the knowledge of the Law; It is likewise left to consideration, whether the same power may not still continue in them, and no otherwise, in the same manner of formerly.    
FINIS.