One Blow More AT THE SADDUCEES, AND Gross Antichristian Errors: CONTAINING A Brief Narrative of the most Material Things that passed in Discourse at Kings-Heath-Meeting, the 4th of October, 1696. betwixt Thomas Curtis an Ancient Preacher among the Quakers, and me William Clarke one that belonged to that Meeting.  
THomas Curtis in his Preaching, spoke much of God being a Spirit, and that Christ had a prepared Body, and that the Virgin was overshadowed with the Holy Ghost; and he said, He must be careful what he did say; for, said he, some have charged me with false Doctrine; And he said, Christ was not called by that Name, till he was Born of the Virgin, and he was again Glorified with the same Glory he had with the Father before the World began; and for that Body he did not know what was become of it; Neither do I care (said he) now where it is; but said, what may be known of God, is manifest within; and this, said he, is plain Scripture; for, said he, I know nothing of Christ but within myself. Then he told the People, William Clarke had charged him with false Charges in a Letter; and said, William Clarke, Stand up and speak, if thou hast any thing to say. Upon which I stood up, and said, Thomas Curtis, Thou hast done the unfairest thing I ever saw done in my Life; thou (I suppose) hast a mind to pick a Quarrel; if thou hadst acquainted me with what thou didst intent to do publicly, I would would have had a Copy of my Letter here; for thou statest my Letter false: Said he, I thank God I have thy Letter in my Pocket, and do intent to read it to the People. To which I assented, and I proffered him several times to read it for him, which he refused, and said, He might be served as if he were at the Spanish Inquisition. So he gins to read, but so false, that it is a shame to think a Man professing Religion, should be so foul: And when he had read two or three Lines, preached upon it: Then I urged him to read it over again, it may be two or three times before he would read it right; one place in my Letter, where I say Christ was like unto us in all things (Sin excepted) and he would read so far as Like unto us in all things; and he would leave out [Sin excepted] and upon that he would Preach a long while; and when he found I would not suffer him to read false, he would have read no more of the Letter, but I told him, he should read it all, and then he went on after his old way to read false, and then to Preaching a long time; and then I would have him read what he left out, for I could remember my Letter, though he would not let me so much as look in it: and at this rate he went on Reading and Preaching, for near two Hours it held at this rate, and he would not read all do what I could, and he would not suffer me to speak but as little as possible, yet I spoke more than he was willing, notwithstanding he challenged me to stand up, yet he would not have suffered me to have spoke ten words, if he could have hindered me; and it would have been hard to have thought such a thing of T. C. if I had not heard him: I told him, I would stand by every Word in my Letter; and John Richardson stood up against his false Doctrine, though he spoke not much, yet it was of good Service. I asked T. C. Whether he did believe Christ was in Heaven; in the entire Nature of Man of Soul and Body, the same for Substance he had on Earth, glorified at God's right hand, and his Answer was, Here is one of his Quibbles. But I urged him again to answer, and then he said, He did not know what was become of his Body; Neither, said he, will I give thee any Answer. Then I appealed to the People, that they might see how he would not own his Manhood, etc. Then when he comes to the place where I had charged him with denying the Resurrection of the Body, there he publicly owned no other Resurrection, but the Resurrection of the Soul from the Death of Sin; and then I got him to confess, that a Man might fall away after he had attained to some such Resurrection. Then he said, Paul had got all his Resurrection while here in this World; and he said, when I asked him when was that change of the Body to be, (mentioned in the third of Philip) he answered and said, His Body should be changed while living here in this World, like unto Christ's glorious Body: And when I put him to that Paragraph in my Letter, where I cited the third of Philip, than he spoke what was mentioned before, and a great deal of that pernicious Doctrine, and where he was charged in my Letter with his saying that the Blood let out of Christ's side with the Spear, was not of value unto us, (but his inward appearance) which he absolutely denied, and I maintained it; then he said, He did believe every drop of Blood and Water let out of his side, was sufficient to save the whole World: Then I told him, it was more than I could bring him to confess before; then I asked him, whether he had the whole Christ in him, because he said but a little before, he knew nothing of Christ but in himself; and then he said, I would catch him as if every Man had a Christ, but said he, I know none but in me: Then I asked him, Whether Christ had a Soul; he said, he did not know: and this was all I could get from him as an Answer to this, as he had but just before preached; he was blamed by all, except a drunken Man that was there: I being first challenged to stand up to speak, he would use all his endeavour to hinder me, and then at last told us, He had paid the Rent for the Barn, but he said he would pay it no longer than Michaelmas-Day past; And when he came to read that Query in my Letter, where I queried of him, whether it was the Manhood that suffered, or the Godhead? This he would have passed by, and not have read it; but I pressed him so hard, he could not but read it, to which I desired him to answer me before the People; and he said plainly before the Auditors, He could not tell whether it was the Godhead or Manhood that suffered. Ah, gross Ignorance and Darkness! neither could I make him own from first to last Christ being in Heaven without us, in the entire nature of Man, or any thing like it. Then I asked him, whether the Light within was the Blood of Christ: Here is another of his Quibbles (said he) I will not answer thee. When I asked him that Question, whether he did believe Christ is in Heaven in the entire Nature of Man, as to Soul and Body, the same for Substance he had on Earth that he took of the Virgin, glorified at God's right hand. T.C. said, Where is God's right hand; Here is another of his Quibbles, said he. And said, He would not answer to it; and he would not suffer me to speak to it, but fell again to Preaching, to drown the People's understanding; but by the consequence of his foregoing Answer, he meant God's right hand is not where but in Man, for he said, he knew of no Christ but in himself; Neither, said he, do I know what is become of that prepared Body, nor where it is, nor do I care. And when I would have put him to have answered to some of my Queries in my Letter to him, I told him they contained Fundamental Doctrines, all the answer was, said he, Thou dost not know what is Fundamental Doctrines. I answered, Then I have been ill taught by thee for so many Years. Now we have many Witnesses what gross Errors he held, and publicly avouched; this Letter of mine was writ to him the 27th of the 2d Month, 1696. and this was the 4th of October, 1696. it broke forth into such a Flame, without any Provocation, and none of the Meeting but himself knew this design, as I know of, that was there; for in a little time, after T. C. had received my Letter, I met him at Malbrough, where we had discourse about the Letter, and he told me, he would not answer it, neither did I give any one a Copy of it, and shown my Copy but to a few particular Persons; and when he had told the People in his Preaching, some said we kept our Meanings hid, but said he, I declare openly; and yet many Questions he was asked afterward he said he would not answer, but said they were Quibbles; and several gross Errors he maintained them for Truth. And now it plainly appears that from their Preaching and Books, that many People called Quakers, not only in England have been poisoned with these gross Errors, but in America also: And now I hope none will, or can blame me, that have any regard to the Christian Religion, that I make this public, and cry aloud against such gross Errors. And T.C. had often challenged us, before I writ to him, If any of us were dissatisfied, he would satisfy: And when I shown my dissatisfaction by Writing, he was offended, and acted so disorderly as this Narrative gives an Account, and he Challenged 5000 of us, to meet us half way: I answered him, and said, It must be then to hear thee speak, for thou wilt let no Body else speak: And thus it ended, and several told him, he had not done a fair thing, and it was shameful.  

Thomas Curtis his Answer to William Clarke's Eight Queries, which he gave in a Public Meeting.  His Answer to the First Question. 
I know not what is become of Christ's prepared Body, nor where it is; neither do I care: This is William Clark's Quibble.  His Answer to the Second Question. 
Here is another of his Quibbles: I know nothing of Christ but within myself, (and T. C. being asked, whether Christ had a Soul) he said, I do not know that he had a Soul.  His Answer to the Third Question. 
There is no Resurrection but of the Soul from the Death of Sin, our Bodies are the Graves; this I have often preached, and I do maintain it.  His Answer to the Fourth Question. 
Here is another of his Quibbles. (W. C. askedT. C. whether the Light within was the Blood of Christ:) He would catch me (said T. C.) I know nothing of Christ but within myself: I will not answer thee.  To the Fifth 
T. C. gave not Answer, therefore Solomon Eccles may serve here, that the Blood of Christ was no more than the Blood of another Saint.  His Answer to the Sixth Question. 
Paul got all his Resurrection while living in this World, and I expect my own Body shall be changed like unto Christ's Glorious Body, here in this World; and there is no other Resurrection but of the Soul from the Death of Sin; our Bodies are the Graves.  His Answer to the Seventh Question. 
I know nothing of Christ but within myself; and for that prepared Body, I do not know where it is, neither do I care.  His Answer to the Eighth Question. 
T. Curtis being desired to answer, whether it was the Godhead that suffered, or the Manhood? I know not (said T. Curtis) whether it was the Godhead or the Manhood that suffered; these things are Quibbles.   
So Reader, when thou hast considered the Narrative, and compared T. C's Answers to the Eight Questions in my Letter sent to him, bearing date the 22d. of the 2d. Month, 1696. thou wilt find George Whitehead, and William Penn, and Thomas Curtis, agree in gross Errors, by comparing T. C's Answers with G.W. and W P's Books; And (He) the said Thomas Curtis challenged 5000 of us half way from his own Dwelling, to meet to dispute and maintain his Principles.  
Reader, I have been among the Quakers between 6 and 7 and 30 Years, and have been a Hearer of T. C. near 30 Years, and I do say, he is a Man I had and still have a kindness for, as a Man, having long hoped to have recovered him from these gross and pernicious Errors: but now he seems rather more bold in these gross Errors, than formerly. This I do further say, I never heard T. Curtis in all my Life, pray to God to forgive us our Sins for Jesus sake, but boast of his own Perfections, that he was come to the Resurrection, and had all the Resurrection he did ever expect, and all the Judgement (he hath said) I have here in this World, and at the time of Death. Many can testify these things have been common with T. C. to preach, and always Father his Doctrine upon the Spirit of God. And now I shall leave it to all Impartial Men, whether the Light in this Man is not gross Darkness; nay, in the first Week of November, 1699. I heard a Foxonian Quaker say in my House, that they did not adore Gorge Fox, but the Light in George Fox: And said the same Quaker to me, Thomas Curtis holds all the Principles of the Quakers Rightly. In 1695. I had some Discourse with T. C. of Christ Ascending into Heaven, and he would not own it; I brought the first of the Acts to prove it, which said, Ye Men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into Heaven; this same Jesus which is taken up from you into Heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into Heaven. He told me, he did not believe it was so writ; but said he, If it be so writ, every Like is not the same. You see by his Answers to my Queries, that he will not own Christ to be a Man, for if he had no Soul, he could not be a Man, he had only a prepared Body, but where it is, or what is become of it, neither (said T. C.) do I care. Now these things were not done in secret, or private, but in a public Assembly; nay, and we that withstood these gross Errors, T.C. said, we had manifested ourselves, and should be more manifest; as if some Evil should befall us, for opposing their gross Errors; for it is usual for this sort of People to pour out Prophecies, so that nothing can befall any, but they have bespoke it all beforehand; And I hope none that are pious, will or can blame me for making this public; for what I had writ to him in a private Letter, he made public in a Meeting for Worship; and also said in this Conference, all that did not speak, were satisfied with these Doctrines of his here laid down. And I hope this may be a means to excite all pious Men of all Professions to draw forth their Pens against these damnable Heresies, who may be more able to do it then my feeble Pen can do.  
Reader, whereas there may go abroad divers Reports of what happened the 4th. of October, at Kings-Heath-Meeting, I thought it necessary to acquaint the Reader with the Reasons, and to prevent false Reports that may go about it, Thomas Curtis did commonly in his Preaching, Challenge any that were not satisfied with his Doctrine, That if they would show their dissatisfactions, he would endeavour to inform them: And I and divers more, were not satisfied with his unsound Doctrine, I wrote a Letter to him the 22d. of the 2d. Month, 1696. showing my dissatisfaction, with Eight Queries I proposed to him, desiring his Answer; and I received a Letter from him, bearing date the 29th. of the 2d. Month, 1696. wherein he promised to give me and my dissatisfied Friends a Meeting at some Convenient Place, as we shall agree (said he.) Some short time after, he told me, He did not understand three Words or three Lines in my Letter and (said he) I will not Answer it; But about six Months after, he proceeded as the Narrative gives an Account (that is to say) without any agreed Meeting, nor any one Person in the Meeting knowing any thing of his Design, and began as the Narrative will inform thee, which was a surprise to the People; and though he tells me in his Letter, he would give me and my dissatisfied Friends a Meeting, as we should agree, yet he kept not his Word, and now challenged to meet 5000 of us half way, to Dispute, which I hope he will keep to his last Challenge; yet he hath said to a Friend of mine, He hath washed his Hands of us: but surely he cannot have washed his Hands of us till he hath met us half way, according to his Challenge, or else acknowledge his gross Error under his own Hand: And for these Reasons I made it public, so that all professing Christianity, and that are Pious, may see the reason that I had in the first place to write to T. C. and such unsound Doctrine continually broached among us; and secondly, his proceed contrary to his own Letter, and then his Reading my Letter so partially, as may be seen in the Narrative; and thirdly, hoping others may be stirred up by hearing such gross Errors maintained in a public Assembly, and a Challenge to meet 5000 to maintain it, that Pious Men will not only justify me in this my Publication, wherein the Doctrine of the Christian Religion is in so great danger to be undermined: And fourthly, that it may be seen that these Quakers, and George Whitehead, and William Penn, agree in gross Errors, and only differ chief about the Female Government of women's Meetings: Fifthly, and that many may be delivered from those pernicious Errors these People hold: And sixthly, that no more may be drawn aside; for it is notorious, that they are the most stubborn people this day in Christendom to be reform.  
And Reader, if thou shalt please to compare this above Narrative, with a Paper lately published in Print by some Reading-Quakers, whereof T. C. is one, Entitled, The Reading Quakers vindicated, wherein he plainly contradicts most of his unsound Assertions he openly in that public Meeting at the Barn at Kings-Heath avouched, How can thou but be struck with Astonishment and Horror, to find Men so hardened in their Hypocrisy, so as to publish in Print, a Faith, point-blank contradictory in some of the chiefest things, to what they have both often before, and since, professed before sufficient Witness, and who have the Impudence to say, They are not changed in any of their Principles: For if they hold the same Principles still, which he at Kings-Heath-Meeting did publicly avouch as oft elsewhere, whereof there are sufficient Witnesses; it is manifestly evident, that there late Printed Vindication is a great Cheat and Impostor put upon the World.  
That the above Narrative is a true Relation of the most material things that passed in Discourse at Kings-Heath-Meeting aforesaid, we do sincerely declare, and in Testimony thereof, both of us being Eye and Ear Witnesses, we set to our Names.  


William Clarke,  
john Richardson,     

Here followeth a Copy of Thomas Curtis Letter he sent me, upon the receiving my Letter, which I thought fit here to insert.  
This 29th. Day of April, 1696. Loving Friend,  
I Have thy long Paper, with many false Assertions in it, which in time I may Answer; and I would know the Names of those who are dissatisfied with my Declaration; my time is short, and I have a great deal to do, and cannot intent to answer so many needless Impertinent Questions, and false Charges as is therein: But my Business once a little over, I may give thee and thy dissatisfied Friends a Meeting, at some Convenient Place, as we shall agree. I have no more, but my Love to thee, and thy Wife, and Family, and remain thy Friend,  
Thomas Curtis.  
THE END.   

London, Printed by J. Bradford, in New-street, without Bishopsgate near Hand-Ally, 1697