THE PROVERB Crossed, OR A new PARADOX Maintained, (Viz.) That it is not at all times true, that Interest cannot Lye.  
Being A FULL, CLEAR and DISTINCT Answer to a Paper of an English Gentleman, who endeavours to demonstrate that it is for the Interest of England, that the Laws against Transportation of Wool should be repealed.  
Printed for Author, In the Year 1677.   

A FULL and CLEAR Answer to a Paper Entitled, Reasons for A Limited Exportation of Wool.  
BEfore I shall come directly to Answer the said Papers, I shall premise some few Considerations: And first of all, I shall do my Oponent that Right as to acknowledge two things, the one is that though he finds his Design opposed by several Discourses under the Name of W. C. (and chiefly by one called England's Interests) yet that he writes like a Gentleman, and not as too many do in our days in matters of another nature, like enemies exposing each other to shame.  
The next thing is this, that he doth grant divers things in that Discourse of mine to be true, though it be but a handful of Corn (as he calls it) amongst abundance of Chaff, and to evidence his approbation of them, he hath done me the Honour to Front his Discourse with divers Propositions, allowed even by himself.  
I shall therefore answerably endeavour to treat the said Author with all that Civility which a person of Quality doth deserve, (as I suppose he is though he be unknown to me) granting to him what is true, Rectifying what I humbly conceive to be mistaken, and answering such Objections as are material, presuming when after this is done, and is maturely considered by my Opponent, we may join in our endeavours, to carry on the general good of the Kingdom, supposing that is both our Designs.  
I must needs say, that I had no thoughts of appearing in Public any more, and could not easily have been moved thereunto, had not my zeal to the Commerce of the Nation, (which is at present solely maintained by the woollen Manufacture of it) Raised my fears so far, as to believe a Ruin is coming upon us, and so far as to doubt also that we may be hastening of it, by those very means we would endeavour to prevent it.  
And therefore I cannot now but like the dumb child speak when he saw a knife at his father's Throat, I mean when I consider the Extremity we are like to be in from the French Kings Vigilancy, and the great endeavours that he hath of late used to acquire the making of the woollen Manufacture in his own Kingdom, and what Artifice and vast Expense he doth use to effect his said design, both in France, and by his Agents here in England, even at this very day notwithstanding, his mind is and cannot but be so much engaged in the present wars; and if he doth this in the very midst of his distractions, what will he not do, or what may we not expect hereafter from him when he is at Peace with all his Neighbours, especially having already gotten such quantities of our wool, as he hath?  
And to encourage the Manufacture thereof, the said French King (for his Interest it is we are about to promote) hath even very lately (viz. within this few Months) issued forth his Edict, (which is their Law) for the Erecting Hospitals in many Towns in France, both for the setting all sorts of Persons at work (that are able) in the woollen Manufacture, and for the Maintenance of all Indigent persons, and not to suffer a beggar there.  
And if the French King, how far soever he pretends a friendship to us, be designing by all manner of ways and means, to undermine our Commerce, and by it to Ruin us consequently in our Trade, and in our shipping, and in our strength by Sea, I may I hope be pardoned, if I am more than indifferently concerned, or more than ordinarily warm, to think that we ourselves should endeavour to perfect the French Kings design by delivering up the foundation of so rich a Manufacture into his hands, and by this means delivering up all our Forts, Castles and strong holds: for that which is moved is moved Principally, (if not solely) for the French Kings advantage, and that which is desired (if granted) tends only to our own inevitable Ruin and Destruction.  
Seeing the thing desired is that after the French King hath laid all this method in a readiness, to Rob us of our Clothing Trade, we to the end we may show ourselves not only his good friends, but his obedient Servants and Vassals, desire that what wool our Clothiers cannot work out in Cloth by reason of the French Kings late Imposition upon it, to the breach of Commerce (and consequently as far as in him lieth, to the Breach of the Peace with us) may for the time to come be sold to his Subjects, that we may not hereafter think of so vain and idle a thing, as to preserve or recover our woollen Manufacture any more, or to preserve the King's Customs, or the strength and shipping of this great Kingdom.  
Upon all which considerations I cannot but humbly entreat our Gentry, (and more especially such as have the Honour to serve their Country in Parliament) seriously to reflect upon the wisdom of that great Prince King Edward 3d. and upon the method which he in his Reign used, now so long since, to gain the woollen Manufacture out of Flanders into this Country, and impartially to compare this with the present Practice of the French King before mentioned.  
And then to consider whether we have not reason to do the utmost we may to prevent his design, or whether we have reason to do all that we can (nay more than he himself doth ask or expect from us) by a Law to promote and encourage his design; and therefore to consider whether there be Reason upon the supposition, that our own people do not steal wool enough into France, sufficient to pleasure the French Kings design fully; and in regard the carrying our wool thither by stealth, doth not manifest friendship enough to him to desire therefore that his Majesty and the Parliament will please to make a Law, that all the French Kings subjects without any control may (after such a day of the year) constantly come and buy what wool they please here as at a free Mart, because it is more for the interest of His Majesty, and more for the Advancing the Honour, wealth and repute of the Nation in General, and consequently more for the enhauncing the price of Lands, that the whole woollen Manufacture and Commerce of the Nation, together with the strength of our Shipping, and all the Forts of the Kingdom be given to the French King and his Subjects, and that we be his Servants and Vassals, here to breed his wool for him, rather than to carry our woollen Manufacture into France ourselves, or rather than to suffer so good a design of the French King's to fall, as tends to the utter Ruin of our Foreign Trade.  
For if in stead of preventing his design, we shall by supplying him all we can with our wool, Resolve rather to advance it and make a Law for it; we must be very short sighted if we understand not that after he hath supplied his own Country he will not only endeavour, but will soon be able to supply Flanders, Portugal, Spain, and the straits, to gain an advantage to his own Subjects, for if he may break the Laws of Commerce, and lay what Impositions he Arbitrarily pleaseth upon our Cloth, Sugar, and all other our native Commodities, even while we are at Peace with him, why may he not also lay an Imposition upon all our Ships that pass the straits, or that shall dare to Trade or bring the same Commodities that he doth in any Port of Italy or Turkey, where the Subjects of his Greatness comes; and when our Commerce is lost, and our Manufacture gone, and our Ships imposed upon, that shall pass the Seas, what shall be left to defend ourselves in case we will not also receive his Codex, or Laws, or his Religion, or whatsoever he shall (for the Greatness of his Name) think fit to require of us?  
All which things, whether they be convenient not only to be wished but to be contributed to by a Law, I humbly leave to my Opponent, themselves to Judge, for when the Trade, that is, the Riches, not only only of His Majesty and the Kingdom, but also the main strength and support thereof shall be lost, as it is now Declining whatever our Imaginations are to the Contrary? what way or means may we as rational Persons think to prevent any of those things?  
This General being premised, I shall now enter upon the Discourse itself, the main aim or scope of which seems to divide itself into two Parts, the one tends to prove that there ought to be a Limited Transportation of wool; the other to prove that by a Limited Exportation of wool the Price of it may be Raised, and by Raising of this, the Rents of Lands, may and will be increased, and his Majesty's Customs greatly Advanced and if these things were Really Practicable, I should not only be so just to myself, and just to my Oponents, but so just to the Nation, as not to put pen to Paper to trouble my Reader, and much less to expose myself to a stage of contention, as I am now like possibly to do; but for as much as the quite contrary will (if I mistake not) appear, I shall therefore Examine and Weigh those Reasons and Grounds which my Opponent hath brought for those Assertions.  
And first, Whereas my Opponent doth endeavour to Alarm the Nation, that for want of the vending our superfluous wool abroad, that the Farmer, and the Landlord are so much damnified; that the one cannot pay his Rent, nor the other sustain his Taxes; and that this is the chiefest if not the sole Reason of sinking our Rents, and throwing up Farms, and them sery of the whole Country.  
This Consequence is not allowed, that being assigned for a general Cause, which is but one among many, and that a very small one. The true cause of the abating the Price of Land, and lessening the Rents, being to be taken from the proportion that the said price always holds to the rate of Interest, as is generally given for Money, which Rate depends whether we will or no upon the plenty of Bullion; and that our Bullion is decayed, and the decay of this is the Main and Principal cause of the fall of our Lands, will easily appear to any that shall consider, First, the great Loss that this Kingdom did receive by the two last Dutch wars. Secondly, The further sad, and almost Incomputable Loss which it sustained by the firing of the City of London, and by firing of a great part of the Suburbs since. And Thirdly, by the vast Expense that this Nation hath been put to for the Rebuilding of the said City and the Suburbs. Fourthly, by the Overbalance of the Trade of France, through the French Kings Arbitrary Impositions, and the breaking the Laws of Commerce with us, to the prejudice of our Trade, and to the loss of near One Million of pounds sterling by the year: which four causes of the decay of our Bullion, as they are no way to be denied, so neither can it be doubted, but that we have by all these means, lost near, if not above the one half of the Bullion of this Nation, (as it was before the said Accidents did Happen) and are daily losing; and if the Bullion be thus decreased, no marvel if the Landlord find it in his Rents, and the Shopkeeper find it in his Trade, and the Farmer find it in his Market, and no marvel, if all degrees of Persons whatever do make a Complaint, how hard money is to be got.  
So that if we shall speak Accurately, though the fall of Lands doth Mainly and Principally depend (as we have said) upon the loss and decay of Bullion, in regard where plenty of Money is in any Nation, there will be store of Chapmen for Land, (and perhaps greater store of Buyers than there may be of Sellers,) and in regard where there is on the contrary a great scarcity of Money, there will be few Buyers to many Sellers, nevertheless there are other concurrent Causes of the fall of Lands, besides this Main and Principal one.  
For it is also to be Considered, that in former times, the Main Chapmen for the Buying of Lands, were the Merchants or Citizens, which being reduced now to a very small Number, partly through the Accidents before mentioned, and partly through the shutting up the Exchequer, the Buyers must now of necessity be restrained to the Gentry, or to the Lawyers, who observing that the Building of Houses doth ofttimes bring in Greater Profit than the Buying of Land, especially if the Rents prove good, they have therefore for this Reason been induced to lay out their Money in Building, rather than in Land.  
And we know it is matter of fact, that besides the Building of the City again, there hath within these twenty years been more Building upon new foundations, especially more fair and costly Buildings, and more especially in the West part of the City, than in any one age before, since this Nation stood.  
To all these Causes let me add that also, which hath been for many years complained on, and oft mentioned or discoursed of even in Parliament itself, which is the bad defective and uncertain title of Lands for want of registering, and which how much soever it hath been complained of, hath never hitherto been remedied; because there are some Callings which gain more by men's Contentions, and Abuses of one another in bargains, than they do by men's Integrity one towards another.  
And indeed if it be a good argument on my Opponents part, that one occasion of the decay of our Woollen Manufacture, is our false and base making of it, and if this Argument be so just and ingenious that I cannot but freely confess it. Then I know not why my Opponent should not in ingenuity, as well allow of my argument for the fall of the Price of Land, that among many other Causes this is one very considerable, (viz.) the bad fraudulent and defective Titles of Land for want of a Register or for want at least of some other method to ascertain the purchaser of them in his title to them.  
And if the several causes which we have here assigned for the fall of Lands, be such as every man will grant to be self-evident, than my Opponent will I hope not take it ill, if I allow not his to be a cause at all, or at least to be so small a one, as it is scarce to be reckoned in a day with these that we have here named.  
And whereas my Opponents next pretence in this head, is, That it is much more the concern of the Nation to preserve the Nobility, Gentry and those that the land of this Country belongs unto; rather than regard a few Artificers, who are employed in the working up of the Wool of this Nation, or to regard the Merchant who gains by the Exportation of our Manufacture.  
And whereas he gives many reasons why the first of those (viz.) the Nobility and Gentry, should be preferred before the latter, which is the contemptible Merchant, and Mariner, and Artificer, I humbly crave leave to say, that the said Argument doth wholly depend upon a supposition which is no way fit to be granted, (viz.) as if the Interests of the Merchant, Marriner and Artificer were not only opposite to, but wholly inconsistent with the Interest of the Nobility, Gentry and Farmers, whereas there is nothing more evident than the contrary; so that the whole Argument itself falls for want of a Foundation. For the clearing of which let us consider, That in as much as it is impossible that we should defend ourselves, as an Island, otherwise than by the strength of our Shipping, and seeing this is much less possible to be done now at such a juncture of time when our nearest Neighbours do partly out of fear, and partly out of emulation multiply Shipping upon us, and use all endeavours that are possible to gain the Dominion of the Sea from us, it is hence clear that we must either say that the Interest of the Nobility, Gentry and Farmer, is not the same with the Interest of the Nation, or if it be the same with the interest of the Nation, it must be their Interest then to uphold the Trade and Shipping of this Country, and consequently to uphold the Merchant.  
But forasmuch as all that understand Trade, do well know that all the Commerce of this Nation doth for the value and bulk of it entirely depend upon the Woollen Manufacture, consequently it must be the Interest of the Nobility, Gentry and Farmer to uphold the Woollen Manufacture, as much as 'tis to uphold Trade, or to uphold the strength of our Shipping by Sea. For what will the Lands of the Nobility and Gentry profit them, or what will become of the Privileges and Rites of Englishmen, if through the loss of our Woollen Manufacture we lose our Trade, and if by the loss of this we want Shipping to defend ourselves?  
To this Argument let us also add, that if there be no opposition between the Interest of the Nobility and Gentry, and the Interest of the Farmer, (as no man doth pretend there is) then there can be no opposition between the Interest of the Nobility and Gentry, and the Interest of the Artificer who works up the Wool of all the Country.  
For besides the profit that doth arise to the Nobility and Gentry by the Houses which are taken, and by the lands that are rent by the Clothiers and by the Workmen under them, it's well known that the said Clothiers and Workmen are serviceable to the Farmer, not only for the buying up his Wool, but for the buying up all manner of Victuals also; by the which not only one but all the parts of the Farmer's rents come to be discharged, one Clothier employing not only one or two hundred persons, but sometimes one or two Thousand; and consequently, if we shall admit that there are in England not above five thousand Clothiers, and admit that each of these one with another do maintain but two hundred and fifty workmen, the whole will amount to upward of twelve hundred thousand; wherefore if we shall allow for each of these people but four pounds per year, one with another, the whole will amount to between four and five Millions of pounds sterling by the year, which yearly Sum the Farmer doth immediately receive, and consequently the Nobility and Gentry from the poor and contemptible Artificer, over and above what is further contributed by them to the Shoemakers, Tailors and other Trades, that could not live and be maintained without them, nor the Farmer himself, if all these Trades should fail.  
2. And here I must humbly crave leave to rectify another mistake in my Opponent, and such as is no small one; which is, that in as much as it is matter of Fact, and such as may be clearly demonstrated, that there is at least, if not more than a Million of Persons young and old of both Sexes, employed in the Clothing Trade; and in as much as all that are thus employed, are such as have their dependence solely and wholly upon the said Manufacture, without intermixing themselves in the labours of Hedging Ditching, Quick setting, and others the works belonging to Husbandry; it's hence evident how much my Opponent hath clearly mistaken himself, in supposing that though our Clothing Trade should be lost, yet all the Persons that are now employed in it, might find work from the service of the Farmer.  
For seeing its matter of Fact that the Farmer is able to supply himself all the year, with as many Labourers, and more than he hath an occasion for, without so much as meddling with, or requiring assistance of those who are now employed in the Clothing Trade, it must unavoidably follow, that if our Manufacture should be totally lost, as there will be above a Million of People that must either starve, or beg, or be put to the charge of the several Parishes, or be forced to steal, or rob, or leave the Kingdom; so it's as evident, that the Farmer after all this will not only be less able to employ Labourers, than he was before, but less able to pay his Landlord, by four or five Millions every year.  
And when such an abatement as this shall be made of the Farmer's Income, I shall leave it to any wise man then to consider, what will become of the price of Lands, or value of Rents, and how much this will advantage the Grower or Breeder of wool.  
And to make good this Computation, and free it from all suspicion of slightiness, we shall further offer to consideration, that whatever is the true value of all the woollen Manufacture of England, the Nobility Gentry, and Commonalty do receive among them, near, if not more than Nine parts of it in Ten. For in as much as all who are well acquainted with the Clothing Trade, do know that it is not a tenth part of the profit, nor sometime the twentieth that is gained by the Clothier or first employer who frequently loseth of the very Interest of his money, consequently it must of necessity follow, that nine of ten parts, if not 19 of 20 parts of the whole value of the said Manufacture must be distributed to the Nation; so that admitting the whole Woollen Manufacture of this Nation, comprehending Cloth, Stuffs, Bays, Stockings, and all other sort of the said Manufacture, do amount to four millions of pounds sterling per year (more or less,) there will not come of that great sum to the Clothier or first employer much above two hundred thousand pounds (if so much;) so that three Millions and eight hundred thousand pounds per year, must of necessity be distributed to the Nation by virtue of the said Clothing Trade: whereof we cannot but suppose the Farmers and therefore the Nobility and Gentry must receive the greater part.  
It is well known also that it is solely by our Trade that not only this great City of London itself, but several other large Cities of this Nation do wholly depend, and which if our Trade were removed they would soon be deserted by their respective Inhabitants.  
Then we cannot but offer to consideration where the Nobility, Gentry or Farmers would find a Market for their Commodities, or find a price answerable to them.  
All which particulars I have been the larger in, to remove that mistake which is all most as destructive to this Nation as the Pestilence itself, which is that mentioned by my Opponent, (viz.) That the Interest of the Merchant or the Interest of the Clothier and Artificer is not consistant with the Interest of the Nobility and Gentry; the contrary being now made sufficiently to appear.  
Thirdly, My Opponents third Argument is, That Wool was at 10 l. per Pack in the year 1647. when it was Prohibited, and that in the following year it was sold for 16 l. per Pack, but that Wool hath ever since by reason the said Prohibition abated, as is pretended of the price of it and is now not worth above 4 or 5 pounds per pack.  
In which Argument there seems to be a failure in two respects, one as if the Wool of the Nation hath never bore any price since the time of the Prohibition, whereas it may be made appear that after the year 1650. Wool bore a very considerable price from 10 l. per Pack to 24 l. per Pack, according to the goodness of the said Wool, and continued so for some time, which shows us an other mistake in his Arguments, as if the fall of the price of Wool were wholly to be ascribed to the Prohibition of it, whereas indeed there are two other causes that are very evident. First, From the discouragement that hath been put upon the Clothier, and upon the vent of our Woollen Manufacture by the French Kings Arbitrary impositions upon it to the almost utter prohibition of it; whereby now there cannot be so much wrought of it as formerly, which had otherwise certainly been, and then no such occasion or pretence as this would have been taken to complain of superfluous Wool, and therefore as this cannot be denied to be a true cause why more of our Wool comes to be unwrought then formerly, so 'tis clear that those very men that are now pleaded for by my Opponent, (I mean the stealers and transporters of Wool about Canterbury, and the places adjacent, not for necessity but for filthy greediness of gain and lucre) have highly contributed, notwithstanding the Laws of the Nation against it, and notwithstanding the ruin of the Nation that is daily Jeopardied by it; in which respect I cannot but confess that Rumney Marsh hath indeed created an interest by itself, but it is such an interest which neither is nor hath been consistent with the interest of the Nation, nor with the interest of the Nobility and Gentry in general, so that the said stealers or transporters of Wool have been the main and principal cause of both these inconveniences (viz.) both of the loss of our Manufacture and the lowering the price of Wool.  
The other cause of the fall of the price of Wool especially of late years, hath been the necessitating of Ireland to stock their Pasture-grounds with Sheep instead of great cattle, and those of the best breed of England, by which means, as Wool hath of late years been more increased than ever at any time before within his Majesty's Dominions, so the consequence of this extraordinary increase (and not any fault in the Clothier or Manufacturer) is that which hath not only brought down the price, but hath occasioned so great a quantity of it to be sent abroad into foreign parts, as it bears now almost as small a price beyond Sea as here, and therefore that in this Argument my Opponent hath assigned that for a cause which is no cause at all may clearly appear, because it's matter of fact, that Wool bore as good a price if not (after the said prohibition as it did before for many years till that breach of Commerce was put upon us by the French King which we before mentioned, and until that unfortunate Act (for so I must humbly crave leave to call it) was made against the importing the Irish Cattle upon supposition that it would raise the price of Land here in England, whereas the quite contrary effect hath been too much experienced, (viz.) That it hath laid such a foundation for the impoverishing England, as will not quickly (I fear) be recovered.  
4thly. The next thing alleged by my Opponent, is, That a limited Exportation of Wool will be more for the advantage of our Woollen Trade, and less for that beyond the Sea, than the hindering of it hath been.  
Which assertion if my Opponent had really, sufficiently and effectually made good, he might justly have merited the name, for being the greatest master of reason in England.  
And indeed seeing a paradox more strange and more hard to be conceived, could not easily be stated, I could not but expect that some Arguments more remarkable than ordinary would immediately have followed it, but finding (contrary to my expectations) nothing beyond a bare affirmation that if strangers had a liberty to buy what Wool soever they please, they would pay the dearer for it, by much than now they do, and that our Clothiers would therefore have it the cheaper, and by this advantage would be able to under sell, the strangers in their Manufacture.  
I say finding little or nothing more to be brought either by way of Reason or of Argument to maintain this paradox, I was soon convinced that it remained as uncapable to be proved as it was before, and a little to evidence the improbability of the said consequence, we shall here offer some few reasons to the contrary, and first, I crave leave to say, That it is no way likely that the Grower in any part of England, should not be willing to get the utmost price for his Wool that he can, and therefore not likely that any Grower whatsoever will sell his wool to the Natives of this Country, for a less price than he presumes he may have of strangers, and therefore not at all likely that our own Manufacturers, should buy it cheaper than others.  
2. Admitting that it should be made unlawful for any stranger to buy up wool till such a Time or Season of the year, to the end that our Clothiers might first provide themselves of what they need, yet it would no way follow but strangers may have their Agents and Factors here, that may purchase it at the same ease, with the same conveniency, and at the same rates that our Clothiers are like to do; nor can I perceive any thing propounded by my Opponent that would be able in the least either to prevent it or to obviate it. But,  
Thirdly, And this great ommission in my Opponent I could not but take the more notice of, because if no expedient can be found out by him (which I doubt there will not) to prevent Strangers from giving what Commissions, they please to buy up what quantities of wool soever they shall think fit, here in this Country, as I see not how or by what means the Exportation of our Wool should be any way possibly limited, so neither do I see how the Clothiers here should be sufficiently and certainly furnished, or how the Manufacture itself should be capable of being any way preserved, and if these mischiefs, and inconveniences cannot but follow, and cannot but be necessary consequences of such a Law, as is propounded by my Opponent; and that nothing to obviate or prevent these inconveniences hath been either regarded, or so much as attempted by him; I cannot but take it to be a very great blot to his judgement, barely and boldly to offer at such a thing, which is attended with so much hazard.  
But Fourthly, Because my Opponent seems to put his chiefest stress in this, (viz.) That a large Custom may be put upon all wool that is exported by Strangers, and that at least by this means they may come to pay double the price of what our Clothiers do, and not only so, but by this means also his Majesty may receive an advantage by the Custom that is imposed upon it.  
To try the weight or strength of this expedient, or rather to show the vanity of it. Let us suppose that 3d. or 4ds. per pound shall by a Law be imposed upon all wool that shall be shipped out by Strangers or others, as it will not follow that the said Custom should be paid to his Majesty for the one half of the wool, that shall be so shipped out seeing under the colour of 100 packs many hundred may be exported. So this will much the less follow from the very observation which my Opponent himself hath made, of the nature and temper of the Stealers or Transporters of Wool; for if as he confesseth they will be contented with 12d. a day profit so they may play the Merchants, and if they are content to run the hazard of their necks, and to be tried as Felons, for so small a matter as this amounts to, which cannot be above 8 or 10s. upon a pack, how much more than will they been couraged to steal the Custom of it when their excuse shall be fairer and their advantage much greater, and the hazard less a hundred times than now it is.  
But in the fifth and last place, Let us admit for Arguments sake, that 4l. was imposed upon every pack of Wool that was transported, and let us admit that all this Custom was duly paid, yet I see not the least ground, for my Opponents confidence that we shall for this cause be able to undersell the French in the woollen Manufa-cture.  
For beside that the nature of their Manufacture being but sleight, and such as takes up much less wool than ours doth, and a great part of their warps being made of their fine spun Linen and their own course wool, I say besides this the impositions that have been of late Arbitrarily put-upon all our woollen Manufacture in France, and considering also there is no Custom at all put upon wool there when imported both these will utterly prevent our selling the said Manufacture there cheaper than the French can make it, though they shall give not only double but treble the price that we ourselves do give for wool.  
5thly. The next thing alleged by my Opponent is, That our Fore fathers did never prohibit the Transportation of wool unless upon some great occasion, and for a certain Season, till of late years, for making good of which a summary of several Statutes, are brought from the time of Edw. the 3d. downwards to our own times.  
For answer to all which Statutes, I shall make use of no other argument than what my Opponent himself hath put into my mouth, which is, that wool was for many ages, by the wisdom of the Government, at least very often prohibited; and that whensoever the Government itself saw there was a greater occasion than ordinary for it, they did always prohibit it; and consequently if the Interest of the Nation at present be such and the circumstances relating to our Neighbours about us, being not only so great, but so instant and importune that these two considered there will be much more reason, and much more necessity for the prohibiting of it now than formerly.  
Then all that my Opponent labours at in producing instances of other kinds and where the circumstances are not the same falls wholly to the ground.  
For the clearing of which, let us consider that the circumstances peculiar to this present time is, That we have not only been possessed for many ages of the Manufacturing of our wool but have of late so improved our Trade and Commerce by it, that we have exported it by shipping of our own, not only into France, Portugal and Spain, but into Italy, Turkey, and to the most remote parts of the World.  
By which means as our wealth came greatly to increase, so we ourselves became more powerful in Shipping than ever, which greatness of our Trade and the strength of our Shipping being not only observed but forthwith emulated by some of our Neighbours, and ●eing it likewise clearly discerned, that the chiefest means for the maintenance of it proceeded from our woollen Manufacture, as the Hollander therefore first so the French since have by many undue Laws and pressures upon us, contrary to the ancient treaties of Peace and Commerce, endeavoured to rob the said Manufacture from us.  
Nor is the state of the contest now at present between us only, who shall have the Trade, but who is fittest to have the strength and dominion of the Sea.  
Wherefore if my Opponent be not only an Islander, but so much an English Man, and be so true a Subject to the interest of his Majesty, which I doubt not but he is, as to think there is none so fit as his Majesty is to command the Sea, than my Opponent must of necessity grant that nothing aught at this time to be done by us that may hazard the greatness of our Trade and Commerce, and consequently that nothing ought to be suffered by us) so far as we are able in any wise to prevent it) that may either lessen or endanger our Woollen Manufacture, and consequently if nothing can so much hazard it, and hazard the very loss of our Trade and of the Dominion of the Sea itself through it, as the countenancing and contributing to the woollen Manufacture now set up in France, than this is not to be done by us, but is rather, if we will pursue the interest of the Nation by all means to be prevented by us.  
And consequently till my Opponent shall be able to make it appear, that the Dominion of the Sea, if lost will be no great harm to us, or till he make it appear that we are able to keep the Dominion of the Sea even notwithstanding our Trade and Commerce should be utterly lost, and notwithstanding our woollen Manufacture should be wholly carried away by our Neighbours:  
Or till he makes it appear by other arguments than hitherto he hath done, that the French though they increase their woollen Manufacture will neither be able to undersell us abroad, nor be able to prevent our Clothes and Stuffs from going into France as formerly:  
I say till my Opponent shall be able to make good all these things, I must crave leave to differ from him wholly, and plainly to affirm on the contrary first that the Transportation of Wool if allowed by a Law can no way be limited.  
Because if the Transportation of Wool shall be allowed by a Law, no means, (speaking rationally) is able to prevent the Hollanders, Flandrians, and French to give each of them, such Commissions as they please to buy up here what quantity of Wool soever they shall think fit.  
Secondly, In regard that this can no way be prevented, and that my Opponent himself offers not the least grain of an expedient towards it; I therefore farther affirm, that it cannot appear that our Clothiers or Manufacturers here, should have the least privilege above the stranger, either in point of provision, or in point of price.  
Thirdly, That our Clothier, or Manufacturer here, must of necessity have a far greater disadvantage, with reference to the furnishing himself, than the stranger abroad, in regard it cannot be thought, he should be able to raise any such stock of money as the stranger can, to prevent the strangers Forestall of him, and consequently if it be lawful to talk reason, there can be no ground to imagine, that our Manufacture should not in short time be utterly lost, and this being lost, as our Trade and Strength at Sea must be inevitably lost with it, so not only the Honour, Wealth and Rents, but the very privileges Liberty and Property of this Nation must be hazarded to such strangers as shall carry away the Trade, and Strength from us.  
Fourthly, As to the next Allegation, made by my Opponent, viz. That the Transportation of Wool, will better His Majesty's Customs; I see but little in it that may require my Answer to it, in as much, as I have spoken already to this under the fourth head, Nevertheless, I must crave leave to say, that my Opponent here also goeth upon an Extraordinary mistake, it being not at all in dispute between us, whether his Majesty's Customs would be bettered, if a Subsidy were paid only for that wool, that is now Exported, in stead of having it all stolen; But the dispute between us strictly is, what His Majesty's Customs will hereafter amount to comparitively to what they at present now are, in case there should be a Law, for the free and unlimited Exportation of Wool, and that by reason of this Law and the Consequences that must follow from it, our woollen Manufacture shall come to be wholly and entirely lost; for it becomes not a wise man (and such, I must in Civility Judge my Opponent to be) in making such proposals, as tend to the altering of Laws, to look at the present only, but to look more Principally at the time to come.  
And therefore it is not in this case at all to be considered what the advantage will be that may come to his Majesty's Customs, for a few Months, or for a single year, but it is to be considered, what the advantage or disadvantage, will be to His Majesty's Customs, for the time to come; admitting these inconveniences, which I have before mentioned to be unavoidable, from the Law, which is propounded by my Opponent.  
Besides my Opponent cannot doubtless be so ignorant, as not to have considered, that the greatness of His Majesty's Customs (which is at this day greater than ever) is not at all raised comparatively from the export but from the Import, which is 10 if not 20 times greater than the Export, the value of all which Import must proportionally fall as the quantity of our Manufacture shall fail to be carried out, and as our raw and unwrought wool alone shall in stead of it be Exported, and consequently to pretend that by such a Law as is desired, his Majesty's Customs would be advanced, is either greatly to betray ignorance, or greatly to betray the Revenue of the Customs itself.  
The next thing Alleged by my Opponent is, That the cause of the decay of our Clothing doth not lie in the Exportation of our wool, but on the contrary, (viz.) because our wool is no more freely Exported than it is, And that we may be sure not to mistake his sense, herein he further Adds, That in as much as the decay and fall of our Manufacture comes properly from the prohibition of our wool, the stopping or hindering therefore of our wool to go out, is but the applying to our Disease a wrong Remedy.  
Which Argument if it had been brought by a stranger we should immediately have turned it into merriment, as supposing he did intend by it to drole and make sport with us, or supposing that he thought us such mere Children, as that any thing would easily choose us, but being brought by a Gentleman, and an English man, I confess I could not possibly think what might be the meaning of it, unless it were that my Opponent was resolved to the cross Proverb for a while, and by a piece of wit to make it appear that it is not always true, that Interest cannot lie; for that nothing can be more contrary to truth than what is here alleged, or more against the interest of the Nation, and of an English man than what is here asserted, (if that be the very interest of my Opponent) is most clear.  
For if it be true which my Opponent sayeth, that the decay of our Clothing Trade is not from our Exportation of Wool, but rather the contrary, because no more of our wool is carried out raw, and unmanufactured, it must follow then, that by how much the more our wool is thus exported, by so much the more our manufacture will not only be preserved but encouraged, and the reason for this must needs be, that if we are once rid of our wool, and have got a good price for it, we need not trouble our heads so far as to imagine that they who buy it will do any thing with it, but only will lay it up to look upon it.  
For if we shall seriously believe that they will have so much wit as to make use of it, and to make use of it as becomes Rational persons in order to the increase of their own Clothing by it, we cannot be so sottish as to think that they do then intend after this to buy our manufacture any more, but do on the contrary design to prevent, and shut out the Importation of it, as a thing not expedient for them.  
And if this, and no other be really the intent of buying up our wool by our Neighbours, then must it not necessarily follow that by how much the more wool they have, by so much the more Manufacture they will make for the furnishing themselves, and furnishing their Neighbours, by so much the less place, or possibility there will be that we should be able to furnish them, and by so much the greater stop must of necessity be put to the vending our clothes and is it not plain that by how much the less we vend our manufacture, by reason of the increase of it abroad in other places, by so much the more our manufacture must decay: not only in point of the price, but in point of its necessity and use?  
And is it not then as manifest that by how much our manufacture decays, our Trade must decay, and our Wealth must decay, and the Strength of our Shipping must decay, and we ourselves must be the more made a scorn, a prey, and a laughingstock by it to our Neighbours.  
And if all this be not for the Interest of the Nation but the contrary wholly, is it not plain that my Opponent seeing he is an Englishman, and seeing it is for the interest of the Nation that he writes, doth cross the proverb, and give us a demonstration by his thus arguing, that Interest may now and then lie, though not always?  
But in the next place to try whether my Opponent be in earnest or not, let me humbly beg of him, to tell me truly, why those naughty men that usurped the Government in the year, 1647. did upon such penalties strictly prohibit the Exportation of our wools if he saith, it was because they were only not Rebels, but Men of no Reason, and understood not the Interest of the Nation; will he not by this brand many of the Parliament also that now sits? who though they did not confirm the Rebel's Law, did think fit at least to make a new Law to the same purpose, even soon after his Majesty's most Happy Restauration.  
Granting then that the Laws now in force of the 12. and 14. of His Majesty's Reign, were not made by other than by the wisest and most Loyal Persons of this Nation, the said Persons must consequently have some grounds or other for making the said Laws, and if we may guests at their grounds by their own words in the preambles of the said Laws, they appear mainly to be these three following. viz.  

1. For the setting on work the Inhabitants of this Realm.  
2. For the improving the Native Commodities of this Country to its best, fullest, and utmost use.  
3. And that the Advantage accrueing hereby might redound to the Subjects of this Kingdom and not to the Subjects of Foreign Realms, as hitherto, and as it would and must otherwise do.   
Wherefore either these their grounds when the said Laws were made, were either good and sufficient motives for the prohibiting our wool, and for the laying so great a penalty upon such as should export it, or they were not: if my Opponent shall say they were not good and sufficient grounds, than he must say that the Wisdom of those Honourable and Loyal Persons, who at that time served in Parliament, were indeed not much better than that of the usurpers of the Government in the year 1647.  
But if the said grounds were good, valid, and sufficient, and such as did both regard and comprehend the true and sincere Interest of the Nation, than my Opponent must confess the said Laws ought to stand, or he must show wherein the case is altered now, from what it was then, with reference to the said motives or grounds that the said Parliament than went upon in making the said Laws.  
First, If my Opponent can make it appear by Letters that he hath lately received, that the Hollanders hath laid down the Woollen manufacture, and that they in France are altogether grow sick and weary of it, and that the French King hath wholly forbidden it, and hath released all the Impositions that he hath of late years put upon it, than I must needs confess the case is altered, and that the said Laws ought justly to be repealed; or,  
Secondly, If my Opponent hath received information from sure and good hands, that the Hollanders make use of no other wool than that of their own growth, though they breed no Sheep; and that he hath also received information from good and sure hands, that the French make use only of their own wool in all their Manufacture; or,  
Thirdly, If my Opponent can make it appear that the setting on work the Inhabitants of this Realm is not now a thing so convenient or fit as it was when the said Acts were made; or,  
Fourthly, if the improving the Native Commodities of this Country to its best, and utmost use be found by experience to be no good Policy but to bring many inconveniences with it; or  
Fifthly, if it be much more adviseable that Foreigners should go away with the gain of our Manufactures, and with the sweet of our Trade, rather than that his Majesty's Subjects should have it, in all these cases I must confess it must inevitably be for the Interest of the Nation to repeal the said Acts and lay them aside.  
But on the other hand if none of all these five cases can possibly be put, and that those very reasons and grounds do still remain, and are the same now which they were when the said Acts were made.  
Then my Opponents motion to repeal the said Laws, must be against the Interest of the Nation or Interest doth not always speak true; which was the Paradox intended to be argued by my Opponent.  
As it is clear then by both these Arguments, that my Opponent hath wholly mistaken himself in the cause of our Manufactures decay, so to evidence yet farther the manifestness and palpableness of this mistake, we affirm that it is matter of Fact that our Woollen Manufacture did greatly increase after the said Prohibition of wool in the year 1647. For at least 16 or 18 years together, and not only increased but bore a good price, and that I may not be found like some others, who regard not the credit of what they affirm, (and particularly like him who hath contracted the Arguments of my Opponent, and hath published them together in one sheet of paper) I shall to justify what I say, appeal for the truth of it not only to the Customhouse-Books, and to the quantity of the Woollen Manufacture there entered, but to the Gentry themselves: and to the price that Land bore, and Victuals bore for many years together after the said prohibition, and to the plenty of Money that was then in the Land.  
Yea as our Manufacture did increase for many years together, after the said prohibition of the Exportation of wool, so it had to this day still increased, had not those Accidents happened that laid so effectual a foundation for the ruin of it, as it was neither in the power of the Clothier nor in the power of the Grower to prevent, I mean those new and immoderate Taxes which were laid upon our Manufacture by the French King, on purpose to encourage his own workmen to gain the said Manufacture from us; and on purpose to prevent our Clothes and Stuffs from being brought into his Country, although we yearly take of his Commodities to the value of above a Million of Pounds, sterling; and I mean in the second place, the making of that unfortunate Act against the Importation of Irish Cattle, which hath not only tended to the Ruin of the Grower, but to the Ruin of the Clothier, and to the Ruin of very Trade of England itself; and which if it should continue to stand unrepealed, must necessarily and inevitably Ruin more and more both the Gentry, Merchant, and Clothier every day.  
And therefore as a further proof to what I say I shall give one instance in stead of many and leave the truth of it to be strictly examined and judged accordingly; which is, that since the said Accidents have befallen us, (I mean of the French Kings Arbitrary impositions upon us, and that Act against the Importation of Irish Cattle) Exeter alone, hath lost of what it did formerly vend, near if not above three hundred thousand pounds sterling, every year: and if we shall reckon proportionably from all other Counties and Cities, we shall then easily see there is a just ground for the decay of our woollen manufacture, and for the fall of the price of our wool by it, and for the fall and ruin of our Rents, not as my Opponent allegeth by reason of the prohibition of transporting our wool, but truly and really by reason of the multiplication and increase of our wool, to that degree, that the Exportatition of it hath almost been necessary.  
The serious consideration of which true and real cause of the decay of our manufacture, I shall humbly leave to the Wisdom of the Parliament.  
And shall likewise leave it to their Wisdom to be considered, whether in this conjuncture of affairs, and according to the circumstances which now attend us, while our Neighbours do not only emulate us, but are become actual Rivals with us not only for Clothing but for our Trade itself; and for our Strength and Dominion at Sea, we shall or ought so far to contribute towards the design, and towards the certainty and effectualness of our own Ruin, as either to repeal our Acts that prohibit the exportation of wool, or to let that unfortunate Act stand, which makes the transporting of wool absolutely necessary, whether we will or no, and by this means makes our Neighbours scorn-the Commerce and Trade that they formerly had with us, and thanked us for●.  
And whereas my Opponent doth lay a great stress upon the false making of our Manufacture, as one main cause of the decay of it; I cannot but confess there hath been too much, and too great cause for this complaint, formerly, while those good Laws for the sealing of Clothes in the water, and for acertaining the length of them, were wholly eluded through the negligence and corruption of the Auluager, but though this abuse hath not to this day been redressed, yet there hath been so great an alteration in the making of our Cloth within this thirty years, I say again within this thirty years, even since that naughty Act that commenced in the year 1647; that neither Dutch nor French do come near us, either for the Accurateness and Goodness of our Workmanship, or for the honesty, and Integrity that is used in making both of Clothes, Stuffs, and Bays.  
And that I may here also vindicate the Credit of what I say, and that it may be clear, I speak nothing but Truth, I shall appeal to the most considerable Dealers in all London, either as Merchants, Drapers, or Mercers, whether there be not many Clothiers, many Stuff and Bay-makers, who though they be under no Check at all at present, do nevertheless so value their Name, their Word, and their Repute, that they dare adventure all the Commodity they make, to be forfeited, if it do not prove in every respect as Long, as Broad, and as truly made, and as well qualified, as they sell it for, which is a thing so well known as though none will now trust to the Seal of the Aulnager, or to the Common Stamps in use formerly; yet there are many both Drapers, Mercers, and Merchants, who will trust to the private mark of divers Clothiers with less scruple than they will trust to the stamp of some Coyn.  
Yea I should much wrong the generality of the Cloathiers of England if I should not upon this occasion prosessedly declare (and whoever denyeth it will greatly injure them) that such is the sense which they themselves have had for divers years, how much it is for their Interest, and for the Name, and Honour of the English Nation itself, To keep up an exact goodness in all the Woollen Manufacture of this Kingdom, that they have for many years, not only solicited the Parliament, that they might be Incorporated in each County, And that none might be admitted to take upon them the making of Cloth and all other woollen Manufactures, but such only as serving a due number of years to learn the profession of it, might be sufficiently versed and skilled in it; But they have for many years desired also that all and every the sorts of woollen Manufacture, might be brought to such a certainty of Regulation for the length and breadth of each Manufacture, and for the true making of it; that it may not be in the power of any unskilful person to falsify it, But that by marks of their own, as is used in the Colchester Bays, all manner of cheats and defects should be openly signified; which proposals, if they might be harkened unto, might soon be effected; and made practical through a standing Council, established to no other end than for the Cloathing-Trade, with power only to receive such proposals as are to be made by the Clothiers, and their respective Factors here relating to each County; and to prepare the said Proposals into distinct Acts against the Parliament shall be next convened; than which I humbly conceive there is scarce any thing can be instanced that might, or would tend more to the General good and advantage of this Nation, and to the promoting and recovering of our Manufacture again, and consequently for the consumption and advancing the price of our Wool, which is the thing mainly my Opponent seems to drive at, and in that we shall agree.  
But here my Opponent may perhaps say, that after all I cannot deny but there is a surplus of wool which cannot be wrought up by the Clothiers, and that I offer' not one word how it should for the future be disposed of.  
To which I answer, First that it appeareth not by any thing which my Opponent hath hitherto said, at least not by any thing that he hath hitherto proved, That the Clothier either cannot or doth not work up the wool of the proper growth of England to the full of it, but if a far greater quantity of wool be brought into England from Ireland then ever before was brought until of late years, as the Clothier cannot be responsible for his not buying up all the wool which is sent into England, so neither can he or aught he to be responsible for the glut proceeding from the importation of it, or for the cheapness of the said wool, by reason of the said glut.  
Secondly, If the proper and only way for removing all evil effects, be to remove their respective causes, and that this is and must be acknowledged by all rational Persons, then considering what we have said before, and not only said but proved and made it to appear, viz. That the cause of that surplus of wool, (with the cheapness of it at present) among us is partly from the Irish Act that prohibiteth the bringing in of Live Cattle, and puts that Kingdom upon the breeding of wool whether they will or no, and partly by the decay of our manufacture through the supply that we our Selves do make to our Neighbours of our own wool, for the promoting of their Manufacture to the ruin of our Selves.  
The proper remedy then for the removing the cheapness of our wool on the one hand, and for employing our Poor, and recovering our Trade on the other hand, must necessarily be the stopping the excessive Growth of it in Ireland, and as strictly stopping, and restraining the export of it from Ireland, and from hence.  
And here I must take the boldness to say again what I have in part said already in my second Argument, (viz.) That where a Nation is not rich in Mines of Gold and Silver, it is not capable to be enriched by any other way then by its Manufactures.  
And consequently if it be from our Manufactures alone that the Riches of this Nation comes; and if it be from our Manufacture chiefly that our Shipping is employed, and our Mariners bred, if it be from our Trading alone, and from the riches, which our Trading brings in, that His Majesty's Customs are raised, and that our Fleet have been hitherto Built and Maintained, and the Dominion of the Seas hath been preserved, than it is must be from our Manufacture only that our Bullion hath been brought in, and that the Rents of our Nobility and Gentry doth depend and are sustained.  
And therefore if it must be granted me that there is no higher Interest in the Nation, then that which preserves his Majesty's Customs, and that which sustains the Nobility and Gentry's Rents, and that which supports our Navy and Shipping.  
Then in regard our manufacture alone doth do all this, our manufacture alone, and the encouragement of it must necessarily be the greater Interest of the Nation, itself; and I must crave leave to say that whoever placeth it in any thing else (as the circumstances of this Nation stands at present) must either mistake the Interest of this Nation, or can be no Friend to England.  
Wherefore if it be granted by the wisest of Lawyers, that a mischief is better than an inconvenience, some private men ought to suffer rather than the whole Nation. Which I humbly conceive is a solid, and a sufficient answer to my Opponent as to this part of his objection.  
Supposing also that our Manufacture and the encouraging of it, is the main and chief, if not the sole and only Interest of this Nation, then as no Interest besides can, or aught in reason to stand in competition with it, so much less the Irish Act, without the repealing of which nevertheless it is simply impossible, that either our Manufacture, or that the Trade or Navigation of this Kingdom should be preserved.  
For if there be no reason to make a Law that they must strave in Ireland, there can be reason to forbid their breeding of Sheep, if we will not let them employ their Lands in the breeding of Live Cattle. Admitting also that the Pasture Lands of Ireland are proportionable to the bigness of that Kingdom, far larger than the Pasture Lands of England, as they are and must necessarily be, partly through the smallness of their Tillage (their Corn being not capable to be exported) and partly through the thinness of their Inhabitants, and it must necessarily follow, that these being converted mostly to the feeding of Sheep must breed a vast quantity of wool, and such as must equal if not exceed the quantity breed in England by our Selves.  
Wherefore it must needs be plain to every person, that not only the breeding of wool, but the disposing of it, and the disposing of it to most advantage, is now become the Interest of the Nobility, Gentry, Yeomanry, and of all others whatever that have a concern in Ireland, which if it were possible to prevent, it ought to be allowed to none besides ourselves, whose whole proper and entire Interest it is to be sole Manufacturers or Workers of it.  
The Breeding, Growing, Disposing and Improving of wool being now by ourselves made the entire Interest of Ireland who desired it not of us, and would have been very well content without it, if we cannot desire their Nobility or Gentry to burn their wool, we cannot then deny them to take all such Lawful and just courses whereby they may improve their wool.  
Wherefore seeing these courses can be but two ways, either to send it is where it most wanting, and where it will yield the best price, which is to our Neighbours to improve and increase their Manufacture, or else to keep it themselves, and manufacture it up in that Country.  
And seeing one of these courses are wholly, inevitable and that both one; and the other do not only tend, but must and will certainly and effectually bring an utter destruction to the Trade, Commerce, Strength, Shipping and Navigation of this Kingdom; we have small reason to expect our Neighbours the Dutch, or our Neighbours the French should help us, or pity us, when we do wilfully contribute to the Ruin of ourselves, and may if we will either prevent it, or easily Remedy it.  
And indeed if our All be at Stake, by reason of the countinuance of that unfortunate Act; and if this All, I mean the very Interest of the Nation itself, will not move us to alter it, I think it would be very Impertinent to insist upon Lesser Arguments.  
And therefore though it would be for the Interest of the Nation greatly, to Arrest this occasion, I mean the Cheapness of the Wool, to beat out our Neighbours in the Foreign Trade of our Manufactures, by under-selling them at least abroad.  
And though this might now more easily be done then ever, seeing our Manufacture is Improved of late years in the Goodness of it, and might soon as we said before be brought to an Absolute perfection.  
And though it be but Equal and Just to forbid the Commodities of those Countries that are near us, who refuse to deal with us for our Commodities or by Exorbitant and Arbitrary Imposition laid upon them do in effect prohibit them; and though the doing of this, is but agreeable to the Rules of Justice, and to the Law of Nations, and Law of Commerce.  
Though also it cannot be denied that it must be greatly consistant with the Public Good of the Nation to make Sumptuary Laws, and to restrain the Excess that is at present among us; yet I must humbly crave Leave to say that this is but like the taking much pains to stop the Leaks of a Barrel and let the Liquor run out at the Bung: For these are all Petty things to the Main Concern of the Nation, which must be Ruined, and Ruined as I humbly conceive irrecoverably, if the Irish Acts doth stand.  
FINIS.