A DISPUTE BETWIXT Two Clergymen upon the Road.  
In which is discovered how unhumanly the one set upon the other in his Journey, and at last Rejected his company, refusing to dispute with him.  
Published by a friend of the Respondents.  
Try the Spirits whether they be of God,  1 John 4.1. 
Printed for A. H. 1651.   

A Dispute between two Clergymen.  
Question.  
Well met Countryman, whither are you travelling I pray you?  
Ans. Towards I. in H. Sir.  
Q. Have you been at London Sir?  
A. Yes.  
Q. By your habit you should be a Minister?  
A. I am an unworthy Minister of God's word at S. in E.  
Q. I shall be glad of your company, I pray what College were you of, for I suppose you have been either a Cambridge or an Oxford Scholar?  
A. Sir, I have not been a Graduate.  
Q. Then I fear the strange fire of preposterous zeal causes you as it doth many more in these times to run before you be sent: What do you think it's lawful for one who hath not been a Graduate to enter into the Ministry? Spondeo te nunquam studioso Scholastico damnum illaturum nisi eum libris privaveris?  
A. Sir, I am at the present somewhat unfit for disputation, yet if you can convince me by clear testimony out of God's word, that he that hath not been a graduate may not be a Minister of God's word in case of necessity, as well as a Graduate, if thereunto lawfully called, I shall be sorry for my rashnesss, and apply myself to something else for the futute.  
Q. I pray where is there a necessity of such Preachers as have not been Graduates?  
A. Where there is a want of Godly and learned men to teach the People, and whether there be not a want of such to supply many a hundred congregations in England judge you I pray.  
Q. And because you say if he be thereunto lawfully called, I pray who is lawfully called to be a Minister?  
A. He that is inwardly called of God, and outwardly called by those the Scripture Authorise to call him, is lawfully called to be a Minister.  
Q. Inwardly called? why aught none to preach, except they be inwardly called of God, is not the outward calling sufficient?  
A. No, for how shall they preach except they be sent, Rom. 10.15. I hope you will conclude the Apostle meant an inward call as well as an outward; no man, no though he have been a Graduate, may take this honour to himself, but he who is called of God as was Aaron, Heb. 5.4. though a man be never such an Eminent Scholar, he ought not to enter into the Ministry, unless he be inwardly called of God: it is not every Scholar may turn Preacher: we read in Dan. 1.17. of four excellent Scholars, but God poured the Spirit of Prophecy upon but one of them, viz. Daniel: Paul was brought up at the feet of Gamaliel, Acts 22.3. a place I fear too much abused by some Scholars: for if we compare that text with Acts 18.3. 'tis said that Paul's craft was to make tents: but suppose it be a truth that Gamaliel was a Tutor, and Paul a Student under him, and that then and there he became skilful in all kind of Languages, Arts and Sciences, which to prove will make a Scholar to sweat; yet Paul had no warrant to turn Apostle until he had commission from Jesus Christ: so though it be necessary that a Minister be a Scholar, yet no man's Scholarship makes him a Minister though you join to that the lord Popes call or the lord Bishops either, for unless he be inwardly called of God he is not able to prove himself a true Minister; and truly it were good that those Scholars that turn Ministers would make known their Commission they have received from God, if they have received any, as well as that they have received from a Lordbishop or some Patron, that when ever they reprove others for preaching without a call, their own consciences might not reply, Medice cura teipsum.  
Q. Ah sirrah, I begin to smell a rat, for any thing I can perceive you could beteem to conclude that Paul was no Scholar?  
A. Sir, I pray judge charitably, I believe Paul was a better Scholar than yourself, he spoke more languages than they all saith the Text in 1 Cor. 14.18. yet still it lies upon you to prove that Paul attained his skill in languages by industry at Gamaliels' College, or whether he had the extraordinary gift of tongues as those had in Acts the second.  
Q. You must know that the call of Ministers is either ordinary or extraordinary, Prophets and Apostles were extraordinarily called, and therefore though then God employed herdsmen and fishermen, yet now miracles are ceased, and we are not to look at any man as sent of God to preach the Gospel unless he have been a Graduate.  
A. We are not to expect that God should now send either herdsmen or fishermen with any other Gospel than we have already received; or that God should make them Prophets or Apostles; yet it doth not follow but that God may call one to the work of the ministry who for some short time hath wrought upon a trade or followed husbandry, and give him such ordinary gifts as may be profitable for those congregations which want godly and learned Divines, or else our English Presbyters sin against light, for they give their letters testimonial in the behalf of such, and also ordain them.  
Q. I know no command in the word, or example, either that any tradesman should enter into the Ministry without an Immediate call from Jesus Christ by name, and that such a one as makes others take notice of it as well as himself.  
A. If thereon you conclude, that it is unlawful for a man that for some time hath wrought on a trade, afterward to apply himself to the study of Divinity and enter into the Ministry if he be by godly and learned Divines found able to dispense the word of life for the good of the Church: by the same rule what command or example have you in the word for Baptising Infants, payment of Tithes, Ordination of Ministers by a Lord Bishop, or for any Graduate to enter into the Ministry unless he have such an immediate call, for the miracle will hold for the one as well as the other, and I desire you to prove that either they Acts 8.4. or Apollo's Acts 18. were Graduates, or had this immediate call you speak of, yet I hope you will conclude they were men in office, and did not run before they were sent.  
Q. I will not trouble myself about Apollo at this time, but I answer your demand with another Quere, ought not a man to abide in the same vocation wherein he is called, for I am sure its the counsel of the Apostle. 1 Cor. 7.20. Let every man abide in the same vocation whereunto he is called.  
A. Man and Wife ought not by unlawful means to part, nor Servants by unlawful means to reject the yoke, which is the sense if you observe the scope of the Apostle in the Chapter: but I deny that that text binds a man upon pain of damnation to a particular trade, or that it ties God only to Graduates for the work of the Ministry.  
Q. But I pray how shall a man understand the Scripture without knowledge of the Original tongues?  
A. There are Ministers that have not been Graduates that understand the tongues, and I deny not but some have been ordained that have not been very expert in the Latin tongue, yet thanks be to God we have the Scriptures translated, and neither you or any learned man else is able to show such a considerable difference betwixt the Original and our English translation as shall forbid such either reading or the understanding of the Scriptures if they be industrious; and if the case stand so as the Church of God have need of such for the Ministry, the Churches good ought to be preferred before any man's private interest; yet I would advise such to get as much knowledge of the tongues as possible they can, and not to rest on what they have already attained, that they may be able to convince gainsayers, for 'tis necessary that a Minister be able to defend the truth as well as preach it.  
Q. I think thou art a Roundheaded Rascal that never got yet above thy greek Lexicon; the Churches good? what doth it make for the Churches good to suffer such Preachers? are they not heretics and very profane in their lives.  
A. I could wish that it could not be said of those Ministers that have been Graduates in the Universities, that the most part of them are either unsound in judgement, or lead wicked lives, which will make their account the more dreadful another day: & for my part such as those are whether they have been graduates or not graduates, unless they repent they had better be removed & faithful pastors put in their room, than continued in their places to make the sacrifice of the Lord to be abhorred, or to lead people out of the ancient paths of life.  
Q. Well, I see you will encourage tradesmen to enter into the Ministry?  
A. Sir, I would be loath to encourage any Scholar or tradesman either, to enter into the Ministry unless he be able to prove he is inwardly called of God to the Ministry as well as externally by man, lest God make him an example as he did Vzziah, Korah, Dathan and A●iram: or blast his ministry: or give him over to a spirit of error, or lest the same judgements befall him that may befall any that run before they be sent.— but I pray sir let us dispute the matter in hand syllogistically, whether or no he that is inwardly called of God, & outwardly called by those the Scripture Authorise to call him be not a lawful Minister of Jesus Christ though he have not been a Graduate in a University.— And secondly, whether he that is not inwardly called of God, nor outwardly by those the Scripture authorise to ordain Ministers, or though he be outwardly called and yet want the inward call, whether he may dare to preach though he have been a graduate, and for my part I shall be willing to yield to any thing that appears truth.  
Q. If thou hadst not been a Roundheaded Rascal thou shouldest have been my companion, but I question whether thou canst frame a Syllogism worth a flea, and therefore I will neither talk, journey, eat or drink, or any thing else with thee any longer, but I leave thee to the fiend, & so vale, the devil take thee.  
A. Vulgo dicitur, doctrinae solertes ut plurimum politicarum vel agendarum rerum? non sunt maxime experti.   
FINIS.