The Prisoner against the Prelate: OR, A DIALOGUE BETWEEN THE Common Goal AND CATHEDRAL OF LINCOLN.  
WHEREIN The true Faith and Church of Christ are briefly discovered & vindicated, BY Authority of Scripture, Suffrages of Antiquity, Concessions and Confessions of the Chief Opposers of the same Church and Faith.  
Written by a Prisoner of the Baptised Churches in Lincolnshire.   


O my Dove, that art in the clefts of the Rocks, in the secret places of the stairs, let me see thy countenance, let me hear thy voice; for sweet is thy voice, and thy countenance is comely.  Cant. 2. 4. 
I sit as a Queen, and shall see no sorrow.  Rev. 18. 7. 
Prisoner. Prelate.  
You look too much upon the Walls, etc. the Mountains, Caves and Prisons are more sure places to me.  Bernard.   

A PROBLEM demonstrated, AND Fixed to the ensuing Dialogue, instead of an Epistle to the Reader.  

The PROBLEM.  
No Learned Englishman can modestly pretend to know the meaning of the Hebrew and Greek Tongues (so far as they only concern the holy Scripture) any whit more in substance or effect, than such us are Unlearned.   

The Demonstration.  
IS it not the usual refuge of many in our Age to fly to their (particular) skill in the Hebrew and Greek Tongues, as a sufficient defence against such as are not skilled in the literature thereof, when opposed about such things touching Religion, as for which the English Text affords nothing? Yea, it is even deemed enough to silence the Unlearned, when assaying to reason about Religion, to tell them, They are unlearned, know not the Originals, understand no Greek, etc.  
Upon this occasion I have taken this their Plea into consideration, to see whether it be of such weight as is commonly thought. And verily (to the utmost of my understanding) it seems to have nothing of strength in it: for (to say nothing of this vain boast of their knowledge of the Originals of holy Scripture, when yet they never saw them, nor know where to look for them; I say, to let this pass) if we consider diligently wherein the effectual and substantial knowledge of the Hebrew & Greek Text of Scripture lieth, we shall find, that (as touching Englishmen) it lieth not in the knowledge of the Characters or Words of these Tongues (for this a Child of seven years old may know) but that which is the effectual knowledge of the Hebrew or Greek Tongues to an Englishman, is His knowing the true English of the Hebrew and Greek Characters and Words: For example, these 
* ג ב א α. β. γ.  Hebrew and Greek Letters avail an Englishman nothing so long as he can only sound them in the Hebrew and Greek Dialects thus; Aleph, Beth, Gimel, etc. or, Alpha, Beta, Gamma, etc. But that which is the effectual knowledge of these Letters to an Englishman, is to know that they are of the same signification with the English A. B. G. The like may be said of words; for so long as our Englishmen can only sound the Hebrew word El, or the Greek word Theo, it edifieth not the understanding, but when we know these words are the same in signification with our English word [God] this is that understanding of the Hebrew and Greek which to us is truly effectual: for whatsoever sounds our lips pronounce, be they Hebrew, Greek or Latin, our understanding receiveth these several sounds in the English tongue.  
This being evident, it now remains to be considered whether it be not possible (as things now stand) for such Englishmen as know not the Hebrew or Greek Characters and Words, yet for all that to know the most proper and effectual signification of the Hebrew and Greek Text of the Old and New Testaments.  
That thus it may be, and is, will thus appear; Either the Translations which we have, are the same in substance and effect with the Hebrew and Greek Bible, or they are not. If they be the same, in substance and effect, Then such as know the Scripture, as translated into English, do know the substance and effect of the Hebrew and Greek Bible. Yea, further; If the learned Translators (whether Cantabrigians and Oxonians, or else the Rhemists) themselves knew the meaning of the Hebrew and Greek Text of the Bible, Then we who are unlearned do know the same. This must needs be true; or else we must conclude, that they knew the true meaning, and yet delivered a false: but this were a great violation of Charity, to think that they would thus abuse themselves and the whole race of Englishmen; or expose their Credit to everlasting contempt, and themselves and followers to eternal destruction, and all this wilfully, and only about the signification of Words and Letters, and not about the Doctrine contained therein (for Translation and Exposition are two things:) But this (I say) were a great breach of Charity to think, and must needs argue great pride in any to affirm; and would certainly expose not only such particular Learned-men, who so highly stand upon their Learning, but also whole Conventions of them, to unavoidable suspicion, let them give forth never so sincere a Translation; and the rather, because so many eminent for Learning and Industry, have vigorously and unanimously pressed the Unlearned to adhere to the English Text, as the undoubted Voice of God, speaking by his lively Oracles the Scriptures. Now then, if our English-Translation be indeed the same in substance and effect with the Hebrew & Greek Bibles, at least to the best of the understanding of the Learned Translators; and that their understanding may well be preferred before the understanding of any one learned Englishman now living; Then it followeth, that such as know the English-Text, do in substance and effect know the Hebrew and Greek Text, at least so far as may equalise the knowledge of any learned Englishman now living; Because that which the Translators DID know, the same for substance We DO know; And that which they attained to through much study, we know without either learning or study, further than to hear or read the Text of Scripture in our Mother-Tongue. For the Translation which they gave forth was (by their own solemn protestation) the utmost, for substance, of their knowledge of the Hebrew and Greek Text of the Bible: But we have this their Translation, Therefore we have in substance the same knowledge of the Hebrew and Greek Text of the Bible which the learned Translators had.  
This might be further illustrated by the consideration of divers Arts, and obscure Mysteries, which at the first were not found out without great learning and travel; but when once a familiar discovery thereof was made, divers have been expert therein, and that without the help of that learning and study which first brought them forth.  
As thus; The Unlearned may defend themselves in the use of Holy Scriptures, when concerned in any Controversy with the Learned about matters of Religion; So also may they defend themselves in using the Works of Greek or Latin Writers, so far as they are found to be translated into the English Tongue. And this may also serve for an Apology for the Quotations alleged in the ensuing Dialogue, whether from Scriptures or Ancient Writers.  
If now it should be objected, That many words in holy Writ are left untranslated; and that therefore we must needs depend upon the present Learned for help in such cases, etc.  
To this it may well be answered, That there are such Lexicons, Dictionaries and Tables, long ago extant, and yet remaining, as may well suffice the Unlearned for their attaining to the true etymology of all such words, at least in such sort as may be thought equivolent with what the present Learned are capable to accommodate us with.  
Hence it may be perceived that the mode of divers of our present Scholars (under what form of Religion soever) in their contradicting of Translators and Interpreters, which have communicated to us the holy Scriptures, or other Authors, in the English Tongue, is so far from forcing the Unlearned to a necessary reliance upon them in these cases, that in truth it will rather enforce them to a necessary disclaiming them, as not much regarding what they either say or write. For if we have been deceived by all that have formerly pretended to serve their Generations in these weighty and eternal Soul-concerns, We shall have small ground of encouragement to believe that we shall be ingeniously dealt with, by such men, as (to the intent they may bring us under their devised fables and antiscriptural Traditions) do run that desperate adventure to traduce the Scriptures as falsely translated.  
For that diversity which may seem to be among our English Editions of Holy Scripture (which perhaps may thrust itself in Objection-wise in this place) Augustine 
Aug. De Civ. Dei. lib. 18. cap. 43, 44.  hath said well, who adviseth the Reader, not to leave the signification of the History for the circumstance of a word, nor to condemn either of the Authorities.  
From the premises I will conclude with the words of the Problem; No Learned Englishman can with modesty pretend to know the meaning of the Hebrew and Greek Tongues (so far as they only concern the Holy Scriptures) any whit more in substance or effect than such as are unlearned.  
Tho. Grantham.    

The Author's Expostulation with himself, and his Appeal to God about the Publication of the Ensuing POEMS.  

LOrd, have I any other end in what  
My purpose is at present to relate,  
Than to advance thy Truth, thy Name and Praise,  
In these so much divided, dismal days?  
If so, thou knowst how much I have desired,  
These lines ere they came forth, may have expired;  
So as t'have found their end, before they had  
Their full beginnings in these Poems made.   

Or is it for vain fleshly ostentation  
That I appear 'gainst the prevarication  
Of these our days? Then let my hand forget  
Her cunning, once a Pen to draw or set  
On Paper; yea Lord, let my Tongue also;  
Forget to speak that any it may know,  
Till of such evils I convinced be,  
And own my faults to all, but more to thee.   

For what can it avail the Sons of Men,  
To seek applause (by using thus their Pen)  
From mortal flesh, if thou Lord, the erst while,  
Upon them and their doings dost not smile?   

But worm that I am, wherefore do I name,  
On this account, men's praises, or their fame  
(As they are such) to be to me extended,  
For this my work where at they'll be offended.  
Partly because no Learning therein shineth,  
Partly for that these Poems undermineth.  
Those things which they do much more estimate,  
Than what I here to them communicate.   

Well then, my Muse, look for no commendation,  
For this thy work, from this crooked Generation.  
They are prepared for those things to requite thee,  
As did that Troop which lately came to fright thee.  
When they, without producing any power,  
Bereaved thee of thy Fam'ly in an hour;  
And dragged thee up and down from place to place,  
Till in the Goal a period took thy race.   

Lord sith 'tis thus, advise me what to do;  
Shall I speak now? or wilt thou thereunto  
Appoint some other; if but so it pleaseth,  
Thyself, 'tis that thy servant greatly easeth.  
But, O my God, th' hast taught me this to know  
That thou on me didst not in vain bestow  
Any good gift, so, but to thee I must,  
Give an account thereof, for thou art just.  
But yet th' hast many, which have spoke and cried,  
Against those errors which are fortified  
With many School-shifts, and with Martial strength,  
Whereby their life hath had so large a length,  
As that through many Ages they have run,  
Though some from thee, to blame them did not shun;  
So that, may not I silent sit as well,  
As now approach to publish or to tell,  
What hath been told by others, and is known  
Much more to many, than can here be shown;  
If that which those have done may free me from,  
The exercise of thy free donation,  
I could be well content; but in this Meeter,  
I call to mind the word once spoke to Peter,  
When Christ to him a service did assign,  
He straight looked back on John, that great Divine.  
With expectation he should him excuse,  
In part of that charge. But stay here my Muse,  
Thou must not equalise thy case with theirs,  
Yet thou must faithful be in Christ's affairs.  
Though thou'rt the Least, yet mayst make thy abode  
'Mongst those in England that dare speak for God.   

But O the times, are they not perilous  
To publish Truth in? mind how quarrelous  
Is this poor Age against such, as would tear  
The hood of blind Devotion from their Ear  
And Eye, that so the Ancient Gospel-pathes  
Might extirpate our fears, our jars, our wraths.  
But oh! speak of this matter, and Sedition  
Is charged upon us, or a deep suspicion  
We must lie under; as, if to the Peace,  
Some danger by our freedom would increase:  
Yea, and our words such heavy things betoken,  
As if within our Land they once be spoken,  
'Tis straight supposed they cannot well be born,  
But England will by th' weight thereof be torn.  
So thought the High Priest once of Amos words,  
And cried, Amos conspired hath by swords;  
And so commands the Prophet for his Life  
To fly, and so avoid the dismal strife  
Which Truth occasioned. Thus be it noted,  
That always Truth with Treason hath been spotted.  
(I mean by way of calumny) that so  
Truth's friends might find Authority their foe.  
And by this means (alas) what floods of Lives  
Have been destroyed? and yet blessed Truth survives.   

Yet here I must needs grant, that there hath been  
Too much of Tragical deportment seen  
In some that have the Truth (pretendedly)  
Embraced in its ancient purity.  
Yea, I do heartily this day desire  
That none that own God's way may stir that fire  
Of war or strife, Which by God's Providence  
From this our Land's but newly driven hence.  
At least, I pray, if any have attempted  
To stir up war, yet those may be exempted  
From punishment, whose hearts are clear therefrom,  
And let the guilty only bear their doom.   

But O, my Lord, why am I busied here,  
Thou know'st from war my heart and hands are clear.  
And yet, O Lord, I pray thee, teach me fight  
Courageously, that warfare which thy might  
Only can manage, sith it's war Divine;  
And Lord, I thank thee, that thou dost incline  
My heart and hand thereto, and hast assisted  
My soul therein, since what time I was listed  
Within thy Roll; and in this undertaking,  
I pray thee ke●p my hand and mind from shaking.  
That so the Truth, with comely boldness, I  
May practise, preach, write, teach and testify.  
For Lord, if Truth be Truth, and still the same,  
In nature, worth and usefulness, than blame  
Must be their Lot, who are right bold to speak it  
In times of Peace, and afterwards for sake it,  
Because the times do turn. O God forbid,  
That I should for such cause, let Truth lie hid  
In fleshly fears. O God, how great would le  
My shame, when I thy glorious face shall see  
In that great Day, the Day of final Sentence,  
When none their loss regain can by Repentance.  
The thoughts whereof, O Lord, doth give me boldness  
To speak for Truth, though in a day of coldness;  
Wherein the Wa●ers are not more congealed,  
Than men's cold Zeal, hath all thy Laws repealed.  
For what do they less than repeal thy Law,  
Who of poor mortal flesh stand S O in awe,  
As they'll not act, nor speak one word for thee,  
But as great men do give them liberty?   

But Lord I speak of Truth, which all confess  
To be more worth than all that men possess:  
But thou Lord knowst, how doubtful in this day  
It is become to find that blessed way  
Of Truth: for though there's nothing more pretended,  
Yet surely there is nothing less befriended.  
What one man saith is true, another man  
Doth say is false; yea, even such as can  
Skill all the Sciences and Liberal Arts,  
Are so divided into sects and parts,  
That there's no end of their most hot Divisions;  
Yea such the multitude of their Confusions,  
As thou Lord knowst, cannot be lightly numbered,  
And herewith Europe hath been greatly cumbered.   

What then shall I poor dust now signify  
In Truth's behalf? will any think that I  
Have found this Pearl, or can assign the Field,  
(Or Church) which doth this precious Treasure yield?  
Well, whether I have found that Church or no,  
Let him that readeth judge: But this I'll do,  
I'll show the Church I've found, even the Truth,  
Which I have fallen in love with from my youth.  
That so, if I be right, another may  
By this means get some help into the way  
Of blessed Truth: Or else if I be wrong, (throng)  
Some one that's right, may break forth (through the  
And she● me that Old Way, where Rest and Peace  
May be obtained, that my own ways may cease.   

For is not this that which poor souls desire,  
Where is the good Old Way? (others inquire)  
Where's blessed Zion? Mother of the Saints!  
Yea, for a sight of her, some hearts now faints:  
Yea thou, my soul, remember canst the Days,  
The Weeks, the Months, the Years, and doleful ways  
Wherein thou Pilgrim-like, didst mournful walk,  
And in thy Solitudes, wouldst often talk  
With thy Creator, by Prayers, Vows, and Tears,  
That if he would but free thee of thy fears,  
(Which these crooked ways did minister to thee)  
And of his Zion once but make thee free,  
To set thy feet upon that holy Hill,  
Then wouldst thou wholly yield up to his Will;  
To be, to do, to suffer Gods good pleasure,  
If he thereto would fill thee with his treasur●.  
And now, my soul, what is't wherein thy Lord  
Hath failed of in making good his Word,  
In setting thy bond feet free from the band  
Of miry paths, and in his blessed Land,  
(His dearest Church) hath given thee a Station,  
A dwelling place, in his beloved Nation?  
Yea, thou a name, and a remembrance  
Hast there obtained, with an Inheritance  
So rich, so full, so ample every way,  
That what it is, no words can fully say.   

Now then, my soul, see thou perform thy Vows,  
Lest thy Engagements prove but empty Shows.  
What Truth thou know'st, the same communicate,  
That others may thereof participate.  
Remember how the Labours of the Saints,  
In former times, did much supply thy wants,  
And so do still: yea, some the Seedtime knew,  
And thou cam'st but to reap their Harvest true,  
Yet thou a Seedtime, with respect to those,  
That are to follow, must perhaps disclose.  
Or at the least (my Muse) bring forth thy gains  
Which thou achieved haste by others pains:  
That so the Sour, and the Reaper may,  
Rejoice in mutual profiting that day;  
Which shall in Praises to our Lord be spended,  
And yet nor Day nor Praises shall be ended.   

But now my Pen, stay here, and let us muse  
Upon the subject which thou must peruse,  
Use seriousness, for they are Divine things,  
(For the most part) whereof thy Muse thus sings.  
God's precious Statutes are the chiefest Objects:  
Implore his aid in handling so great Projects,  
To clear his Laws, wherein men do abuse them,  
And to declare how rightly they should use them.  
Again, there's many things which thou here blamest,  
Speak of them seriously, when thou them namest;  
For some do deem as highly of those doings,  
As of th' Apostles Precepts, Walks, or Goings;  
Yea, some are ma●ked so, they think those ways  
Had their beginning in th' Apostles days;  
(As Pedorantisme, and other things,  
Which their procedure had from humane springs.)   

And whereas thy most weighty subject is  
About the Church, that heavenly place of Bliss,  
Deal clearly in this point, for that indeed  
In this one Question lies both Fruit and Seed.  
Defend her in thy place, she'll thee defend,  
Yea God will him protect that is her Friend.  
Dispute for Truth, then will the Truth approve thee:  
See to thy charge, my Muse, it doth behoove thee.  
Bear in thy mind the days wherein thy thought  
Was no way's like to that which I am taught,  
More by Tradition (humane) than by those  
Instructions which the Scriptures do disclose.  
This if thou dost remember, it may serve  
To lay thee low, and in thyself preserve,  
A due respect to those that do not see,  
The error of their way. But if there be  
Any that do maliciously oppose,  
The Truth, see thou give them the sharper blows.  
Fear not my Muse, if Truth be on thy side,  
(As he which fanned Babel, well hath cried,  
That Truth is strongest) by it thou wilt be  
Made Victor unto all Eternity.   

My Muse, sith thou a Prisoner art this day,  
Because thou canst not walk in th' Ministers' way,  
Now therefore go thee forth in form of Jail,  
To Dispute with the Minster do not fail.  
If she sound Reason with the Truth produce,  
I do conjure thee, make with her a Truce.  
But if of these thou destitute dost find her,  
Then freely of her fallacies remind her:  
And if she mind thee not, appeal to him  
Whom she pretends to serve, and so come in  
To Goal again, till Liberty from Heaven,  
Thee further to confer with her be given.    

An Introduction, showing the occasion of the Dialogue Ensuing.  

UPon a time, I had in me a mo●ion,  
To take some cognizance of that Devotion,  
Which in Old Lincoln's great Cathederal  
Is used in the way Prelatical;  
Which, I confess, did outwardly appear  
Right glorious, for to please both Eye and Ear.  
But when I called to mind the greatest end,  
Of Divine Worship, which is to amend  
Man's pravity, by good edification,  
I found that Worship, a mere desolation.   

One thing to me prodigious did appear  
Above the rest, 'twas two men which did wear,  
Great Linen Coats, and one had on his back  
A Red Cloth tied, as some men tie their Pack.  
These did themselves divide from all the rest,  
And walked Eastward, bowing down their breast  
At certain places, and obedience yielded,  
Unto a covered Board which there was builded,  
Where on a Cushon each man kneeled down,  
And when their Arms, on other two were thrown  
They seemed to pray, having their eyes cast down  
Upon two Printed Books: where having shown  
Their skill in Reading, he on th'right hand rose,  
And turning West, he did his Book unclose,  
And therein read a Chapter, which Paul wrote  
In th'second of the Corinth's, which I quote 
2 Cor. 3.   
The rather, for because, methinks it might  
Have given these two Readers much more Light  
Than to have worshipped Wood or Cloth utensels,  
Or tied themselves in Prayers to what men's pencils  
Had measured out. This read, some other things  
They also read, and then a Black man brings  
Them off their stage, bearing a silver Mace  
Before these white men, to their former place.   

Now when these Obsequies and Postulations  
Were finished, then many made Orations  
Around the Choir: but what was said or sung,  
If I should say I know, I should but wrong  
Myself and them; for there was such confusion  
Of Voices, that were't Truth, or were't Delusion;  
Nor hurt nor profit, did thereof ensue  
To me, sith what they said I no whit knew,  
Yet these strange sights do cause me still to wonder  
Why Prelates do against the Papists thunder,  
So much, because of Image-adoration:  
For if that Wood or Stone, built in the fashion  
Of Tables, may adored be by Saints,  
What lets the same, when some like Men it prints  
Especially, if Christ his form it beareth,  
As reverend as a Table it appeareth.  
Now having these men's doings thus far viewed,  
I left them all within their stalls impued.   

And having heard that some in Prison lay,  
Because they could not close with that fine way  
of Worship, I therefore anon repaired  
To see how these distressed persons fared;  
And being come unto their lodging place,  
I found the Prisoners, with erected face  
To Heaven, with their knees prostrate before  
The mighty God, whom they did there adore  
With Prayer and Praises (which I understood)  
And so far fervent, that I gained some good  
By this Devotion; for my cogitations  
Provoked were to heavenly meditations,  
And Christian conference with those distressed,  
About the end reserved for all the Blessed.  
These things I thought upon when home returned,  
And in the sense thereof I partly mourned,  
And partly did rejoice; I also thought  
How these things might into some form be brought,  
For others and my own edification,  
In Truth to stand, and to have Preservation,  
Somewhat by this means, from the several snares,  
Which do or may lie hid in Forms of Prayers.  
And sith the Prison and the Minster were  
The places wherein I these Prayers did hear,  
I therefore have the Conference compiled  
Between these two. And now to be reviled  
For this my work, it is my expectation,  
From all such persons as in this our Nation  
Are preresolved to follow Man's Invention:  
But hap as'twill, that shall be no prevention  
To me from speaking Truth, and more than that,  
To speak, if I do know't, my soul doth hate.  
But now of time I'll make no more expense,  
But let the Goal begin the Conference.    

The CONFERENCE.  

CHAP. I.  
The Argument.  
About Antiquity  
The Jail doth first Dispute,  
The Minster makes Repply;  
The Jail doth her Confute.  Jail. 
I Greet thee well thou great Cathederal,  
Now shining in thy Form Prelatical,  
Whilst others lie within my Cells, because  
They can't conform to thy Prelatic Laws;  
Whose case yet seemeth just and good to me,  
Although, 'tis true, they do descent from thee.  Cathedral. 
Is this a Jayle-like-greeting? what's the cause  
Thou thus declin'st thy work, to take a pause  
About Religion? and I further strange,  
To hear the Jail once intimate a Change  
'Twixt her and me, who want with one consent  
All talk that's too religious to prevent.  Jail. 
'Tis I, even I, thy old deluded Friend,  
Which used to keep in hold whom thou didst send,  
Without a due inquiry of their c●use;  
And now behold, such as do keep God's Laws  
Thou hast again committed unto me,  
And lettest the breakers of his Law go free.  Cathederal. 
Fie, my Old Friend, It grieves me thus to hear  
Thee side with those, who do against me bear  
So great an opposition, that if they  
Should freely speak, perhaps my glorious way  
Might get a blot; now therefore I advise thee  
Be gone, lest I for this attempt chastise thee.  Jail. 
Persuade me not, for I'm concerned to know  
The Truth from Falsehood, full as much as thou.  
Now therefore give me leave with thee to reason  
About Religion, whilst we have a season  
Wherein to do it; for the day's at hand  
We must give an account how here we stand.  Cathederal. 
Thou reason 'bout Religion! When didst thou  
Take thy degrees, the Liberal Arts to know?  
Thou art profane, and I a Holy Place,  
Nor can I with thee reason' thou't disgrace.  
Sith therefore thus I may myself abuse,  
I think it best thy offer to refuse.  Jail. 
Religion is not tied to Humane Learning,  
For this is plain to all men of discerning,  
That God hath chose the foolish, and the poor  
Of this world, rich in Faith. Yea furthermore,  
It seemed wellpleasing to the Lord, that Babes  
Should see true Light, whilst th'wise lie in dark shades.  Cathederal. 
'Tis true the Scripture speaks of such a thing,  
When first the Gospel-Light began to spring,  
But since that time 'tis said, th'unlearned do  
The Scriptures wrest unto their overthrow:  
And this (O Jail) is like to be thy fate,  
Unless thou keep thee to thy former state.  Jail. 
Th'unlearned and th'unstable ones, which do  
The Scriptures wrest unto their overthrow,  
Are Learned Jews, and famous Athens Scholars,  
And not the poor, who are our Saviour's followers.  
Th'first Church's were unlearned, yet had skiil  
In holy Writ, to know Gods holy Will.  Cathederal. 
My other reason may suffice (though this  
Should fail) the Disputation to dismiss:  
Defile not then my place by thy intrusion,  
Nor think thou here to vent thy new Delusion:  
for each must know their place and keep the same  
Or else receive their due deserved blame.  Jail. 
I do presume no holiness can be  
A good pretence this Conference to flee,  
Nor yet can I thy place more holy deem,  
Than other places, this, though strange it seem,  
I can prove true, for in the Gospel day,  
Distinctions of this kind are done away.  Cathederal. 
It seems than I no holier am then thou  
In thy conceit, but Scripture doth us show,  
There's holy ground, as well as ground profane,  
Place where God will be worshipped, and again  
Place where he will no Sacrifice accept,  
But th'offerer and th'Oblation both reject.  Jail. 
The Scripture shows that such esteem there WAS  
Of Place, but shows that such esteem should pass  
Away from Christians; wherefore, I say,  
Thy Ground or Place no holier is this day,  
Than other places; wherefore every where  
Men may with holy hearts in prayer appear.  Cathederal. 
My Place must needs be holy; for this cause  
It builded was, therein to teach God's Laws.  
It consecrated was also by those  
Whom God to minister his Word there chose,  
So was not every place: then thou dost ill,  
Thus to compare thy Place with this my Hill.  Jail. 
Were all this proved (which thou never can)  
Yet mine's as holy, seeing such a man  
As Christ, hath sanctified each place so far  
As therein he'll accept of holy Prayer.  
And Paul i'th' Jail; at Midnight sang an Hymn,  
Such as few singers ever sang in thine.  Cathederal. 
Well, I perceive, I must with thee engage  
In a Religious contest, ere this Age  
Doth terminate: Then let us now propose  
The Point to be Disputed, and then close  
In Argument. The Question than shall he  
About the Church, Whether't be Me or Th●e?  Jail. 
No Question like to this, the Church once found,  
Will for our finding all Truth, prove a Ground  
So clear, that we no Truth shall need to know,  
But she will straight be ready it to show.  
Then fit thyself thy Church for to maintain,  
For that's the thing I question (to be plain.)  Cathederal. 
Dost question that? then that will I defend  
Against thy Opposition: Now descend  
To some particularities, that we  
The reason of thy doubt may fully see,  
And fairly Answer. Then let's see the ground  
Thou hast to prove thy Church and Doctrine sound?)  Jail. 
Well then, the first place where I shall detect thee  
For no true Church (now let who can protect thee) 
First Argum. from Antiquity.   
Is thy Minority, or want of Age,  
To be esteemed for that Matron sage,  
Espoused to Christ 'bove sixteen hundred years  
Ago, whilst thou as yesterday appears.  Cathederal. 
Bliss me! Did ever any creature know  
A Jail that had a more unshamefaced brow,  
Than thou in this? What, do not I well know ye  
To be of Leidens breed, of Munster, trow ye?  
For shame leave talking of Antiquity,  
Thou art in no respect so old as I.  Jail. 
Alas I see thou know'st me not i'th' least 
See the London Apology, Printed in the Year, 1648.   
Whilst thou deriv'st my line from that mad beast  
Of Munster, 'gainst whose pranks I did protest,  
Even in those days as Cassander hath pressed  
Me forth in Print, and sith he doth acquit me.  
Thy Calumny in this case cannot hit me.  Cathederal. 
What? wilt deny thy Father? do not each  
My Pulpits sound thee forth when there I preach,  
For such an Upstart? Yea, my Doctors all  
There show thy Radix, this their Volumes shall  
Attest, yea th'Papists, whom thou sayst acquit thee  
Say Munster, as thy Patriarch, befits thee.  Jail. 
Thy Doctors and the Papists sometimes say,  
I am no older than that Germans fray,  
Yet otherwhile they both confess I came,  
Down from th'apostles times; now then for shame  
Insist not on their witness, which appears  
In its Concordance, like two Dogs by th'ears.  Cathederal. 
Sure thou dost wrong both Papists and my Men,  
Beware how thou dost thus employ thy Pen;  
For if thou show not from sufficient ground,  
Where they themselves, in this case thus confound,  
I will requite thee as a false accuser,  
And of these reverend Clerks a great abuser.  Jail. 
First, Willet, in's Synopsis Papismi,  
Opposing Papists 'bout Antiquity,  
Observes that Bernard names some Sectaries  
(Who Pedobaptisme did much despise)  
They're called Apostolicks, because 'tis thought  
From th'Postles times these Sectaries came out.  Cathederal. 
I find that Willet speaks to this effect,  
But those bore not the name of thy proud Sect:  
Men may deny to baptise Infants, so  
They may deny Believers Baptism too;  
So then, this Instance thee no way assists  
Unless these men were proved Anabaptists.  Jail. 
The Papists in their Book of Motives, say,  
Th'apostolics were such as at this day,  
Are called Anabaptists, yea, that name,  
They do expressly give them; and the same,  
Thy old Friend Marbeck gives to some in Rome,  
In Anno Dom. One hundred fifty one.  Cathedral. 
I read these Books, and must confess I find  
These things are so▪ What then? Thou art behind  
Some which do boast of their Antiquity  
From such like proves, to wit, the Papacy.  
But yet all this cannot evince the truth  
Of their Church-state, nor yet of thine, forsooth.  Jail. 
If I no better Plea in this respect,  
Can show, than th'Papists, thou shalt me reject,  
As one that's noval; but at present I  
Am not engaged for my Antiquity:  
'Tis thou, O Minster, which must now engage  
To prove thyself Christ's Church in point of age.  Cathederal. 
Come on: I reason thus from Featly's mouth, 
Featly, against Fisher.   
That Church is of full age, whose Doctrine's Truth,  
Perpetual, unchanged; and I say,  
Such is my Doctrine; wherefore now I may  
Conclude with him, that thus my Church is true.  
Thy Answer now bring forth to open view.  Jail. 
I do deny thy Minor, and I say,  
Thy Doctrine, which gives entrance to thy way  
Of Church-ship, is not true, nor yet so old,  
As in the Scriptures to be found enrolled.  
For thou without Christ's Soul-converting Word,  
Thy Church with carnal members hast bestored.  Cathederal. 
'Tis true, my Members now are wholly such,  
When I receive them, as no word can touch  
In order to Conversion, yet I say,  
The holy Scripture will evince my way.  
Was not our Father Abra'm and his Seed  
Brought into one Church-state? search now and read.  Jail. 
I search, and find, That unto every Nation,  
To every Creature, good news of Salvation:  
For Faith and for Repentance must be taught,  
Before into Christ's Church they can be brought;  
Contrariwise, 'tis clear, that Abr'ams' Seed,  
Had no such Obligation, that we read.  Cathederal. 
The Parents do believe, and so the Child;  
For Abra'ms' Seed in Holy Writ are styled  
God's Covenant, which Abram, is the same  
That's made with us; now therefore here again  
See how thou errest, making Parental-Faith  
So needful to let in to th'Churches Path.  Jail. 
The Scripture shows most plain, that Abraham's Seed  
In Gospel-times, are such as own his Creed.  
Also the Scriptures quite dissolve that Plea, 
Mat. 3.   
Of Parent-interest in a Gospel-day.  
The Jews are Abraham's Seed, and yet 'tis plain,  
That makes them not in's Covenant remain.  Cathederal. 
I tell thee, Christian-Infants are as free  
To Gospel-Priviledges, as we see  
The Children of the Jews were in their time  
To Legal Rites; thus doth my Doctrine shine  
And is most Ancient, being not denied  
Till such as thou opposed it in your pride.  Jail. 
I know thy Conscience tells thee, there is need 
See the Vulgar Catechism in the Common-Prayer-Book.   
Of FAITH, to give admittance to the Seed  
Of Christians unto Gospel-Sacraments;  
For, of thy Doctrine, these are the Contents,  
That Faith and true Repentance are expected  
Of all, ere they to Bapti'm are elected.  Cathederal. 
'Tis true, I say, Faith and Repentance are  
Required of All, as needful to prepare  
Them unto Baptism; but than you know,  
Sith Infants cannot do this, I allow  
Them Sureties, who for them do then Believe,  
And eke Repent, before I them receive.  Jail. 
Well, now you grant Repentance joined with Faith,  
Must be before any Admittance hath  
Into the Church. TO THIS I DO AGREE:  
So that the Difference 'twixt th●e and me  
Is this; thou callest Grown Persons to Repent,  
And then Baptisest a poor 
* Viz. A Sucking-Child.  Innocent.  Cathederal. 
Though this I hold, 'tis not a Noval thing:  
For proof of this Authorities I'll bring  
From Ancient times, which are irrefragable,  
At least they're such, as thou canst not disable.  
The Wisdom of the Church did Infants give  
This Privilege, that they for aye might live.  Jail. 
This Doctrine is too new to be esteemed,  
True or Perpetual, though by you deemed  
Of such great worth; Reduce this false account,  
For it to more than nought, will ne'er amount.  
O Rotten Church, not now one member's known  
When he's Unchurched to have Faith of his own.  Cathederal. 
Thou layest so great a stress on this one Point,  
As if 'twould prove each member out of Joint:  
What must my Doctrine stand or fall, as here  
I Vanquished or Victor do appear?  
Sure though this ground I yield, I never shall  
To ruin in my Church or Doctrine fall.  Jail. 
Well, yield this ground, & then thou hast no faith  
When thouart enchurched so, thou mayst be grath.  
Thou art foundationsess, therefore must fall:  
For what's another's Faith? a rotten Wall  
For thee to lean upon; wherefore I say,  
This false Prop gone, thy Church soon fades away.  Cathederal. 
That Doctrine which I preach for a Foundation,  
Is Christ as Crucifi'd for man's Salvation,  
There is no Name nor Thing, whereon I found  
My Church, save this, wherefore my Root issound.  
'Tis neither Baptism, nor yet Sureties,  
Which a Foundation-place for me supplies.  Jail. 
Alas! what's all this Talk, if without Faith?  
Which I have showed, none of thy Members hath  
At their Admission, nor for many Years,  
The least lota of true Faith appears?  
This is thy State, O Minster, at the best,  
Another's not thy own Faith which thou hast.  Cathederal. 
I told thee, I can prove what here I hold,  
To be the same the Church received of old,  
As that's my Task; and were my Study here,  
I'd show this Custom, 'bove One thousand year  
The Church hath used, wherefore 'tis no new  
Devised Fable, but a Point most true.  Jail. 
No Study can accommodate thee so,  
As to prove Sponsors Faith, the Means which do  
Give any entrance (in a Scripture way)  
Into Christ's Church, wherefore I boldly say,  
'Tis a mere Novalty, and did arise  
When darkness came by means of Heresies.  Cathederal. 
I see thou stand'st upon Antiquity,  
Only as Scripture doth it amplify;  
From whence, I must confess an Evidence,  
Cannot, in terminis, be fetched thence.  
But let us hear, what further thou canst say,  
Against the use of Sponsors' Faith, this day.  Jail. 
I note this further (as a consequence)  
Of what thou'st said, me thinks it follows thence  
That Infants must sit down at Christ his Table,  
If others Faith to Baptism them enable.  
For can the Church in this their wants supply,  
And not in that? This soundeth monstrously.  Cathederal. 
The Case is not alike; for God requires,  
A Self-examination, and desires  
Men should the Body of our Lord discern,  
When they approach that holy Rite to learn,  
That so they may not drink their Condemnation  
In that which is ordained for Consolation.  Jail. 
'Tis true, God call for this, then pray thee why,  
Canst thou not learn, these Reasons to apply  
To holy Baptism, in which our Lord  
More Frequently requires Faith in his Word,  
With true Repentance; thus these Cases are  
Alike made manifest, and so appear.  Cathederal. 
The Church's Judgement doth the one allow,  
And not the other, unto Infants. Now  
Either the Church or thou, O Jail, must be  
Deceived: but canst thou more clearly see,  
Than she, who hath the eye of Learning bright?  
Sure no; then cease against the Church to fight.  Jail. 
How like to Rome is this thy Argument?  
Dost thou not know, that this same Sacrament  
Was also given to Infants, in Old time?  
Sure there's as plain a ground for this, as thine  
Alleged for Infant-Baptism; hence 'tis clear,  
As th'one, so th'other thou shouldst quite forbear.  Cathederal. 
I know that Rome this Argument doth bring  
To force us, when the Text saith no such thing;  
And sure the Church's Judgement will outweigh  
The private Judgement of such as inveigh  
Against her doings, and I'll hold me here,  
Until a means of greater strength appear.  Jail. 
Admit the Sentence of the Church be great,  
In things most doubtful; yet I must entreat  
Thee not to use it, till thou'st proved plain,  
Thyself to be that Church. Yet here again  
I needs must tell thee, That the Doctors all,  
Engaged 'gainst Rome, about thine ears do fall.  Cathederal. 
Some of my Doctors sang a Strain too high,  
When in this Point engaged 'gainst Popery.  
I likewise grant before this Plea be mine,  
I must, as a true Church, conspicuous shine.  
Which I shall do ere this Discourse have end;  
Then to the next Objection let's descend.   

CHAP. II.  
The Arg.  
Against Nations by the Lump,  
For Churches being made  
The Jail Disputes; the Minster strives  
T'uphold that golden Trade.  Jail. 
MY next Objection, O Cathederal,  
Is this. Christ hath no Church that's National:  
But national thy Church is known to be,  
Ergo, Not Christ's Church, but a Pedigree  
Of Persons, yet unfit for Church-Communion,  
Though thou with them, and they with thee have Union.)  Cathederal. 
Fond Jail, didst never read what David said,  
In Psalm the second, were description's made  
Of Christ his Church, to have her propagation,  
Amongst the Gentiles, to their utmost Nations:  
And when the Kingdom was ta'en from the Jews,  
'Twas given unto a Nation, Scripture shows.  Jail. 
Peter doth well expound the second Psalm,  
In Acts the tenth, when sent with Gospel-Balm  
Unto Cesaria, where God's acceptation,  
Extends to such, as fear him in each Nation. 
Acts 10. 36, 37.   
In Peter's time, no Church was National,  
Yet, Holy Nation, Peter doth her call.  Cathederal. 
So then, it seems the Church is National  
But by a Figure Metaphorical,  
Consisting but of such, as jointly hold  
A Union in those Laws, which are enrolled  
In Divine Writ, as touching Church-affairs;  
I like not this, for it my Pomp impairs.  Jail. 
Christ saith, The Gospel would Divisions cause,  
Such as were not occasioned by the Laws  
Of Moses; for, in Families there should,  
Two this, three that; three this, and two that hold.  
But if Christ's Church for Constitution be,  
Like Moses Church, what need they disagree.  Cathederal. 
It seems my Union thou approvest not,  
This savours of Sedition, or some Plot.  
The Land shall never quiet be, untel  
Rulers, by their Edicts, all sorts compel  
To Uniformity, in things Religious;  
And therefore thy Opinion is Prodigious.  Jayl. 
Rulers, by Edicts, Uniformity  
May well require in things transitory:  
But Rulers, as they're such, in things divine  
Ought not t'compel men in the Gospel-time.  
Ruler's may miss the Truth, which if they do,  
Destruction unto their Commands is due.  Cathedral. 
Until the Rulers did by force compel  
All to the Church which under them did dwell,  
The Church was thin, & maintenance was scant,  
But since they nourished her she feels no want.  
Her Honour's great, her Members like the sands,  
As well in this as many other Lands.  Jayl. 
I do confess of Christians nominal  
The world abounds by th'Church that's National;  
But it's most plain thy Church no semblance hath  
With those that walked in th'Apostles path;  
Whose Honour lay not in the outward State,  
But with true Grace their Souls were eonsolate.  Cathedral. 
Come, tell not me of th'Apostles days; for than  
Christ's Church was small, & of the meanest men:  
But when the Nobler sort possession took  
Of Christianity, the Church forsook  
Her subterranean places, and her Head  
Did lift up, as one risen from the dead.  Jayl. 
The Churches outward glory doth not prove  
That she from death to life doth nearer move,  
But may as soon portend her Vacuation  
Of Grace, as John hints in his Revelation. 
Rev. 3. 17   
And for the Nobler sort, it seems this day  
They're too great strangers to the Gospel-way.  Cathedral. 
How canst thou say this? dost not daily see,  
With one consent they do resort to me?  
Yea, they unto the Church are so united,  
As that with none like her they are delighted;  
And by their strength the Church is now protected  
And her Opposers unto her subjected.  Jayl. 
The Church doth not subject by worldly powers 
2. Cor. 5. 19, 20.   
Her Opposites. Nor is this plea of yours  
A better plea for you than 'tis for Rome,  
To whom the Nobler sort more freely come:  
Yea, Nations, Kindred's, Peoples, to the Whore 
Rev. 18. 3   
Of Babylon resort, her to adore.  Cathedral. 
The Prophets do presage that Nations shall  
Flow to the Church, and bring their Glory all  
Into the Church, the New-Jerusalem.  
And this my Doctors do expound of them,  
Who now by Kingly Power their Subjects bring  
Into my Church, my divine songs to sing.  Jayl. 
Thou knowst right well the Papists do the same,  
Their present pomp and glory to maintain:  
But you are both deceived, for 'tis clear,  
Before that blessed joyful day appear,  
The Jews (a People chiefly there concerned)  
In Can'ans Land must once more be confirmed.  Cathedral. 
If this be true, I must confess I h've erred,  
When to my present state I have referred  
These Prophecies: But thus much I perceive,  
A State that's National thou dost believe  
The Church may yet enjoy, although it be  
When Isr'el their desired Land shall see.  Jayl. 
This weighty case I will not undertake  
Here to dispute; but this is what I spoke:  
I say, the Prophets mainly have an eye  
In these Presages, to the Jews. Then why  
Shouldst thou imagine this thy present glory  
To be the subject of the Prophet's story.  Cathedral. 
Well, we will leave unto consideration  
What hath been said of that Prophetic Nation,  
Wherein the Jews (I must acknowledge here)  
Are often mentioned, as may appear  
By reading of the places. Now let's see  
What thou hast further, which must answered be.  Jayl. 
Thy bringing Nations by the lump into  
The Name of Christian Churches, plainly do  
Destroy the use of Preaching, to convert  
The sons of men; and makes their carnal heart  
Believe they're Christians from the womb, and so  
Their souls deceive, unto their overthrow.  Cathedral. 
What though by preaching I do not convert  
My Members, yet I have another Art  
Them to renew; for this my Book doth say,  
When any I receive into my way,  
They are regenerate, and born anew:  
See therefore how thy charge is found untrue.  Jayl. 
I know thy Book doth say't, but 'tis not true:  
For Christ's Book tells us, all that's born anew  
Are like the Wind, which in such sort doth blow 
J●h. 3. 8.   
As others by their hearing it may know.  
Again, 'tis said, the World they overcome.  
Of all which signs thy Converts can show none.  Cathedral. 
I grant where true Conversion is, there's ceasing  
From fleshly sins; There's likewise some increasing  
In holy life: And truly in these cases  
My Infant Converts claim no real places  
'Mongst Scripture Converts: But (I say) unless  
They Converts be, they have no Blessedness.  Jayl. 
God doth not gather where he hath not strewed▪  
But from the Word it never can be showed  
Where Infants are required to convert;  
Nor yet canst thou, with thy most subtle Art,  
Discovery make 'twixt Infants eight days old,  
To say, This is renewed, That under sin is sold.  Cathedral. 
I must confess such a discovery  
Doth pass my art: for Babes in Infancy  
Do not demonstrate whereby we may know  
Which have the Spirit, or whether or no  
Any whom I baptise have yet received it;  
But as I have been taught I have believed it.  Jayl. 
Thou said (even now) Infants no Blessedness  
Can have, unless they converts be. To this  
I answer; As old Adam's sin involves them  
(' thou't their consent) in death, So Christ absolve● them  
(' thou't their concurrence) for Paul doth profess  
The Grace by Christ exceedeth Adam's loss.  Cathedral. 
So then this is thy judgement, I perceive,  
That look how Adam Infants did bereave  
(' thou't their committing sin) of happiness;  
So Christ (' thou't their obedience) shall them bless▪  
I hold the contrary to this: but now  
Some other Argument I pray thee show.   

CHAP. III.  
The Arg.  
The Minister Papal Rome disclaims;  
The Jail from thence doth show  
Her own Prelatic state she mains,  
If not unchurch her too.  Jayl. 
IN this great Question, Where the Church must be  
It may do well thy radix for to see.  
The more I look, the more I see thee come  
In thy Church-state but from great Papal Rome.  
From whence I argue, If Rome have no Church,  
Then thou wilt scarce be found to have a Porch.  Cathedral. 
Presumptuous Jail! my Chronicles do show  
I cast off Rome, and all her Popish crew;  
Yea, of their Bones a fire I have made:  
And she sometimes with same coin hath me paid.  
Which clearly shows I have her quite disserted,  
As an old Harlot, from all Truth diverted.  Jayl. 
Thou cast off Rome thou sayest, but thou hast neither  
Baptism nor Church-power, but what either  
Thou brought from thence; this Rome thee boldly tells  
And thou canst find no answer which refels  
This their Objection. So 'tis evident,  
Unless Rome be a Church, thy Church is spent.  Cathedral. 
What though their Baptism I do valid deem?  
What though their Ordination I esteem?  
Must it needs follow Rome is Christ his Spouse,  
Or else the title of Christ's Church I lose?  
This is Jayl-Logick, and to Jail must go,  
Or else the reason I'm resolved to know.  Jayl. 
It follows clearly, and I marvel why  
Any wiseman can Rome the name deny  
Of Church; if they true Baptism and Power,  
In Church-concerns, retain unto this hour.  
If these Essentials be truly there,  
For lesser faults 'tis hard the Church to tear.  Cathedral. 
O but she's full of faults, and those most great,  
For by unwritten things she doth defeat  
Poor souls of Gods most holy Ordinances,  
Which Saints have counted rich Inheritances.  
My Doctors show how much I do detect her  
Of this Abuse, and therefore do reject her.  Jail. 
Unwritten things! Thou canst not without shame  
Blame her in this, because thou dost the same.  
For where's thy Common Pray'r-Book or thy Cross  
Found in the Scripture, more than Popish-Massings?  
Were not thy Organ Pipes and Antic Dress  
Found in one Chapter, with the Pope's Confessings?  Cathederal. 
Well, but they worship Images, which I  
Reject, as being gross Idolatry:  
Indeed it is unsufferable folly  
For men to count a carved Post for holy,  
And then to bow before what their own hands  
Have made, contrary to our Lords Commands.  Jail. 
Alas, thou'rt every whit as far amiss,  
For I have seen thee do as much as this:  
What means thy frequent bowing to that Board  
In this thy Choir? How canst thou think our Lord  
Will' low thee this, and not allow them that?  
Sith all's but Wood, by you set up in State.  Cathederal. 
'Tis true, I bow to th'Altar, but what though?  
I do not worship it, as these men do  
Their graven Images; for 'tis most plain  
They Idolise: But as for me, I feign  
No holiness inherent for to be  
In th'Altar, when to it I bow my knee.  Jail. 
This is the Papists Plea for what they do 
Certam. Relig.   
In Image-Worship; yea, they tell thee so  
In express words, accursing every one  
Which worship Images of Wood or Stone.  
Now therefore if this Plea for thee will serve,  
'T will Image-Worship full as well preserve.  Cathederal. 
I wish thou be no Papist all this while,  
Thy disputation savours of their Style;  
Nor need I doubt, but Rome hath her Consorts  
With thee; who in a hidden way deports  
Themselves, that so they may advantage take,  
My Church and all her holy things to shake.  Jail. 
Mistake not Minster, I no Papist am,  
I only show what thou must say, and can  
No● choose but say (till thou be better grounded)  
That when thou call'st Rome Whore, thou art confounded  
With her; because in truth she is thy Mother:  
She tells thee so, and thou canst show no other.  Cathederal. 
All this thou speakest, because I was baptised  
By th' Roman Church, and also emollized  
Or formed into a Church, and there Ordained  
By Babylonish Priests, with whordoms stained;  
This I must grant. We likewise had from thence  
The Scriptures; yet thou canst with them dispense.  Jail. 
The latter will not prove the former sound,  
For though a Jew or Turk the Book had found,  
And so from them I should receive the same,  
Yet hence no man could argue (without shame)  
That now if by the Jew or Turk we be  
Ordained Bishops, it must satisfy.  Cathederal. 
Well, if't be so that th'whore of Babylon  
Can give no Baptism, than I have none:  
Or if she could no Bishops well Ordain,  
I must confess my calling will prove vain.  
But yet I'll hold me where I am, till thou  
A way more clear than this my way canst show.  Jail. 
Who ere they be gives others holy Orders,  
Must needs be such as are within the borders  
Of holy Church; now sith thou dost exclude  
Rome from the Church, to thee she's not endued  
With power Ordinative. But the way  
Of Ordination, I'll anon display.   

CHAP. IU.  
The Arg.  
The Jail the Minster doth detect,  
As unbaptised and vain.  
The Minster doth the Charge reject;  
The Jail doth it maintain.  Jail. 
BEcause six Lines no Preface will allow,  
My next Objection presently I'll show,  
Which on an Ancient Maxim I will ground;  
No BAPTISM No CHURCH can well be found.  
Wherhfore the Point for thee to Answer shall  
Be this, Thou hast no Baptism at all.  Cathederal. 
Prodigious Jail! where got'st thou this Objection?  
'Tis some Anabaptistical infection.  
But sith thou ha●t my Christendom denied;  
First I'll appeal to Rome, there to be tried,  
From whom my Infant-sprinkling I received,  
Which to be Baptism is now believed.  Jail. 
'Tis well confessed, and lo, what shall I think?  
How canst thou now refuse with Rome to drink  
Their Transubstantiated Cup, sith thou  
Thy Babyes-Sprinkling from Rome must avow?  
But let Rome judge and she will tell thee plain;  
No Scripture owns thy Sprinkling, so 'tis vain.  Cathederal. 
Rome doth indeed tell thee and all men so;  
But she had be●ter have said nothing tho.  
But as for me, I Scriptures can produce  
Which show Infant-Bapti'm th'Apostles use.  
I other proves from Circumcision draw,  
To prove the point in hand a divine Law.  Jail. 
If Circumcision be thy Precedent, 
Bell. de Bapt. S. N. Antidote. T. B. End to Controu.   
The Papists say, Baptism hath no extent  
To Females; for the Law only assigns  
For Circumcisions subjects Masculines.  
And for thy other Texts 'tis a vain crack,  
The Learned Papists say, such Texts you lack.  Cathederal. 
What? art thou turned Papist, that thou dost 
Mat 28. 19   
Of their Confessions in this case so boast?  
But see my Texts; Matthew the twenty eight, 
Acts 16. Act. 2. 38, 39   
With Acts the second, giveth apparent light  
For Infant-Baptisme. So the sixteenth 
1 Cor. 7. 14.   
Of th' Acts; and seventh of the first Corinth.  Jail. 
Teaching precedes Baptising, Matthew saith;  
Both Texts in th' Acts the same in substance hath.  
(That Text in Corinth's speaks not of Baptising)  
So then sith Infants are of Catechising  
Uncapable, these Texts teach no such thing  
As that for which thou dost them hither bring.  Cathederal. 
Infants are holy, Ergo they must be  
Baptised in the name of th'Trinity.  
All Nations are enjoined to be baptised.  
Herein whole Families were not despised.  
Here's ground enough to prove Infant-Baptism,  
And consequently to rebuke thy Schism.  Jail. 
The unbelieving Husband's sanctified.  
Thy Logic saith, Baptism must be applied  
To them. Yea They are part of every Nation;  
Ergo must be Baptised, if thy fashion  
O● arguing be good: but this may show  
How 'tis unsound, inconsequent, untrue.  Cathederal. 
Thou tak'st no notice of the Families,  
Which I observed th'Apostles did Baptise.  
This Allegation is unanswerable,  
Ergo Infant-Baptism stands here most stable.  
I challenge thee, resolve this if thou can:  
For 'tis not yet resolved by any man.  Jail. 
The Texts are clear, the same that were Baptised,  
Were first by Paul and Silas Catechised.  
'Tis said they did Believe in God also. 
Acts 16. 14, 15,— 32, 23, 34— 40.   
Th' Apostles for to visit them did go.  
As they were Brethren: which things considered,  
Thy boasting of thy proof from hence is withered.  Cathederal. 
Proud Jail! how is't thou darest thus contemn  
The Expositions of my Learned men?  
Who with one voice these Texts do explicate,  
My Pedobaptisme to vindicate.  
Art thou grown wiser than my Doctors all?  
'Tis time that I thee to account should call.  Jail. 
Thy Learned men! why I have more than thou,  
Who do my sentence on these Texts allow,  
To wit the Papacy, who do exceed  
The number of thy Doctors, and can read  
As well as thou. And now I further add,  
Thou hast no Baptism, for thy Manner's bad.  Cathederal. 
O I perceive my Sprinkling doth offend thee,  
And by thy Dipping thou assay'st to rend me.  
But wilt thou know the Scripture doth thee quash;  
For BAPTIZO is taken there to wash.  
The Pharisees did wash their Cups and Hands:  
They did Baptise them, so in Greek it stands.  Jail. 
Some drops of Water sprinkled on some part  
Of Cups or hands alone, all washers art  
Doth scorn to call a washing: for except  
The water wholly drench them, we'll suspect  
They are not washed; so in those Texts is nothing  
But what doth bring thy Sprinkling into loathing.  Cathederal. 
The Arguments for both these points are known  
Some by the Papists, some by me are shown.  
And lately some by calvin's offspring were  
Brought into light; now therefore let me heat  
Thee briefly touch each party's Argument,  
In which Discourse to hear thee I'm content.  Jail. 

I'm well content; And now to what is spoken  
I'll here add something, as a further token  
Of the unsoundness of Pedorantism,  
As they maintain who are of calvin's Schism.   

Yet first I will endeavour to confute  
The Papal Ple●; for they do much repute▪  
Infant Baptism to be such a Tradition,  
As stands upon Apostolic Commission.   

Most strange it is, to see how our three sorts  
Of Clergymen three ways themselves deports,  
For vindication of their Babish-washing:  
FIRST Papists by Tradition come forth slashing  
All down before them, in their own conceit.  
NEXT comes the Prelate forth, us to defeat  
With CIRCUMCISED Arguments, and those  
Which from the 7th of Corinth's never rose.  
THAN comes the Presbyter, and he'll maintain,  
Infants Disciples are, and so remain,  
Subjects for Baptism. But by and by  
I hope to show their Plea's a fallacy.  
But though the Papists boast of their Tradition  
For Infant-Baptism (that ground of Division)  
To be Apostolically descended  
From the first Age, and by th' whole Church commended  
To these our days. Yet divers reasons may  
Be rendered, which their falsehood doth betray.   

First this, Th'Apostles by Tradition would  
Not null the way wherein Christ bade them build 
1 Reason   
His Church: but Infant-Baptization hath  
To Desolation brought that Ancient Path,  
Almost in every Nation of Europe,  
Chiefly where Kings are Subjects to the Pope.  
Therefore this Popish way Traditional,  
Is no Tradition Apostolical.   

The second Reason may thus framed be: 
2 Reason   
No Writing of approved Authority,  
In the first hundred, names Infant Baptism;  
Therefore 'tis but an innovated Schism.  
Yea, in the second hundred's latter end  
It scarce was heard of; nor did it extend  
To any large dimention; and beside,  
Some Ancients the● against it boldly cried,  
As an unnecessary practice. Here  
Tertullian my witness doth appear.   

I'll add to him the record which is given 
Tertul. chap. 39   
By Vives on Augustine, where 'tis driven  
(Infant Baptism I mean) from all reception  
In ancient times, see therefore his Collection,  
As Englished by J. H. and many other.  
Yea, see Augustine, where that Learned Brother  
Doth write to this effect. Now those whom we 
Augustin.   
Into the Church by Baptism (saith he)  
Do give admittance, we the same do teach  
To live so chaste, that none may them impeach  
In Widowhood, or Marr' age honourable,  
That they the Gospel fame do not disable.  
Upon this sentence Vives saith, Lest we 
Vives.   
Should be deceived through its obscurity,  
We ought to understand that None of old  
Baptised were, till they could well unfold  
What the Baptismal purgation did mean.  
So then of Old Infants were quite and clean  
Exempt from Baptism, in the opinion  
Of Vives, whose words must have some dominion  
With such as rest on Learned-mens' persuasion,  
As that is now become the most men's fashion.   

The learned Grotins doth the same aver, 
Grotius judgement on points controv. p. 91.   
Saying, In ancient time for to defer  
Baptism till ripe years, at liberty  
Was left. Thus he with Truth doth well comply,  
Whilst our late learned men the Truth withstand,  
To force all men to stoop to their Command,  
'Gainst truth of Scripture and Antiquity,  
And so involves this Age in misery.   

Add further, That which no man can gainfay,  
That Jeroms, Nazienzen, and I may  
Add Austin, Ambrose, and that Emperor 
See Den contra Marshal.   
Called Theodosius, who though they were  
Children of Christians, right much commended  
For such as holy Church right well befriended,  
Yet these their Children they did not baptise, 
See a book, called a well grounded Treatise of Bapt.   
Till they discretion had the same to prize:  
Yea thirty years divers of them attained  
E'er Christ in Baptism was on them named.   

And sith Augustine is afirmed to be  
The ablest Doctor which Antiquity  
Doth name, I'll therefore show that he was rather 
August. Contess.   
To Us than Papists a true ancient Father.  
Unto which purpose see his own Confessions,  
Where you may find in very plain expressions,  
His pious Mother was right virtuous  
In Christian Faith, and of Life courteous.  
And how that he, being but a youth of years,  
Did much desire in faith, with prayers and tears,  
That he, as then, might forthwith be baptised;  
But to defer the same he was advised.  
Because the Church did fear lest sin should be  
A hindrance to the life of Sanctity.  
Yea, though at this time he was sick to death,  
(As was supposed) yet he no Baptism hath  
Allowed him, but he was well restored,  
And lived till thirty years, and then adored  
The Name of CHRIST, in that his Ordinance  
Of holy Baptism, And did advance  
To perseverance in that great Profession  
Of Christianity. Now who possession  
Can claim so rightly of this boly Man  
(For one of their Church) as the Baptists can?   

The same I think I might well say of all  
The ancient Fathers; so that here I shall  
Desire any learned man to name  
Some One that hath attained to the fame  
Of Ancient Father, for the first four Ages,  
That was baptised an Infant; and his wages  
Shall be my thanks. Till when I'll take't for true  
There's no man can me such a Father show.   

Now these things weighed, gives clear demonstration  
That Infant Baptism had no general station  
Till more than half a thousand years revolved  
From Christ. So this tradition is dissolved  
From Apostolical repute; therefore  
Let all true Christiane locked out of their door.   

What our late Prelates urge for its defence,  
Confuted is above in th' Conference.   

And now let's hear what th' Presbyter hath said  
In his late Catechise-Book, which was made  
By well-nigh threescore of their choice Divines,  
Who unto Baxter the first place assigns.  
Their words at length I'll faithfully set down,  
And then the weakness of them shall be shown.  
Weakness, I say, as they pretend to show  
Ground for Infant-Baptism: for else they're true.   
A Book, entitled, The Agreement of divers Ministers in the County of Worcester, etc. coming To my hands, being sent to a Friend of mine; The party sending it, supposing it gave very clear evidence against the Anabaptists. I therefore searched what it said in that respect; and found in their Answer to the ninth Question the very thing which we hold in the point of Baptism, clearly asse●ted and proved. The Question and Answer are verbatim as followeth.  
Question.  
What are the public means which Christ hath appointed to Salvation?  
Answer.  
Christ hath appointed that fit men shall be ordained his Ministers to disciple the uncalled, and to baptise all that are Disciples. Mat. 28. 19, 20. Mark 16. 15.  
This is all they say in that Book concerning Baptism, nor quote they any other Scriptures: whereupon I wrote is followeth.  

What! shall nigh fixty of wise learned men  
(Yea of the prime) be contradicted, when,  
After no small debate, they published  
This Book, which seems with Zeal and Truth bespread?  
Our Catechisers, grave & learned all,  
How can a work by such performed fall?  
Good Reader, bow thine heart to understand  
What's true, though't be from an unlearned hand.  
The wisdom of the wise must come to nought;  
For so it was foretold, and now is brought 
Isa. 29. 15 1 Cor. 1. 29, 26, 27, 28.   
In part to pass; since thus much may be said,  
Even of these men, they quite destroy the trade  
Of their so much adored baptising  
Of Infants. Wherefore them this song I'll sing.   

Our Catechisers must be catechised,  
How and what persons ought to be baptised.  
For here they lie i'th' dark, and will not see  
What's true, what's false, though by themselves it be  
Made manifest, in this their little Book,  
To every Reader, who doth please to look  
In page the one and thirtieth, where they say  
Concerning Baptising, This is Christ's Way;  
That such as are uncalled must first be taught.  
Now Infants are uncalled, and therefore ought,  
By their direction, not to be baptised,  
And yet, as though all this had not sufficed;  
They further tell us, All that are Disciples  
Baptised must be into the sacred Titles  
Of Father, Son, and Spirit. Then they cite  
Matthew the eight & twenteth, which gives light;  
With Mark the sixteenth, full to what they say,  
And we say th' same; and thus they cast away  
Their Infant Baptism, sith Infants can  
Be no Disciples made by th' wisest man,  
That is amongst this Catalogue I mean,  
Or else their skill is more than we have seen.  
For sith Disciple doth import a Learner  
By others teaching, he's a weak discerner  
That taketh newborn Infants for to be  
Disciples; Thus we may man's folly see.   Cathederal. 

As for the Presbyters, let them maintain  
Their plea. But for Tradition 'tis most plain  
It stands with me. And though thou hast now shown  
Some few who did thy way of Baptism own:  
Thou dost not prove that ever these men taught  
'Gainst Infant Baptism, yet this thou ought  
To show; but this can in no wise be shown:  
For 'tis most clear they did my baptism own.   Jayl. 

Because I hate disingenuity,  
I grant some Ancients did with thee comply.  
But yet I say, th'most Ancient (if not all)  
Such doctrine taught, as doth in question call  
Thy Infant Baptism. And some did so  
Oppose it, that their lives they did forgo  
In opposition to it, in our Nation,  
When first upon our Land it made invasion.   

But ere I come to speak of these sad days,  
We'll cast our eye on some doctrinal rays  
Of th' Ancients, that the mist they may expel,  
And clear our way. First 
a Jerom in Mar 28  Jerom doth us tell,  
The Lord commanded first to teach, and then  
Baptism such as appeared faithful men.  
And 
b Justin Mart. in Orat. ad Autho. pium.  Justin Martyr doth the same avow.  
And 
c Ath●n. Serm 3. contra Arian.  Athanasius doth that truth allow.  

d Haim. in Mat 28  Haimo avoucheth this for verity.  
And 
e Rab. decret.  Rabinus the same doth testify.  

f Beda in Act. 19  Beda is of this mind, and plainly saith,  
Th' Apostles did instruct men in the Faith  
And then baptise them. So 
g Strig. in Act. 8.  Strigelius  
Did likewise teach. So did 
h Euseb. Eccles. hist. l. 6.  Eusebius.  

i Basil. l. 3. cont. Eunomi.  Basil and 
k Aug. ad Salcot  Austin do this Doctrine own.  

l Cyp. Epist. ad Magnus. Fab. 5th part, f●l. 107.  Cyprian before them did the same make known;  
With others, whom I now refuse to name,  
Sith these are persons of the greatest fame.   

And now, O Minster, pray thee well observe  
What strength I have from Records, which preserve  
The memory of our Nations first reception  
Of Gospel-light; see therefore this collection  
Out of Fabian his right ancient story,  
In the fifth part, where though he greatly glory  
Of that great Monk, Augustine called by name,  
Yet, unto his and thy no little shame,  
He doth confess that Britons Bishops did  
Refuse to baptise Infants, tho much chid  
By that great Monk. Their reason was, they say,  
Such things had not been taught them till that day.  
Yet they the Gospel long before obeyed,  
And in the love thereof were firm and stayed.  
But now (alas) for this their just denial  
Of Augustine's motion, they straight met with trial:  
For Fabian relates how they were slain;  
And Fox upon Augustine lays the blame, 
Fox Acts & Mon.   
At least in part: and can assign no cause,  
But that they did not bow to Augustine's Laws.   

Now Minster, if we take the perfect time  
When in this Land the Gospel first did shine,  
Which was more than four hundred years before  
Austin the Monk set foot upon our shore,  
(During which time no persons were baptised,  
That I can find, till they were catechised.)  
Then 'tis most clear my Baptism thine out dates  
Four hundred years, as Fabian relates,  
In this our Island; and in other places,  
Mine hath the old footsteps, thine noval traces.   

But why do I thy doing deign to name  
Baptism! for in truth it is a shame  
For to vouchsafe it such an appellation,  
Only I use it, 'cause our disputation  
Doth so require. But Sprinkling never can  
Suit with God's Word, delivered unto man  
For his direction in that Ordinance  
Of Baptizontes, sith that clear instance  
In John the third, and twenty third, hath said,  
The Reason why John Baptist used his trade  
In Enon, was because of plenitude  
Of Water, which doth Sprinkling Clear exclude  
From being Baptism. As also doth  
The act of Philip and the Eunuch both;  
Sith both went into th' Water for to act  
What Baptism requires in th'outward fact.  
Yea, Christ our Lord, who knew the Father's will,  
Went Into Water, Baptism to fulfil.  
Now whether Scripture, or thy Doctors be  
The safest guide herein, I leave to thee.   Cathedral. 
Doubtless, O Jail, in this bend of quotations  
thou'rt guilty of no small falsifications.  
I ask thee whether thou hast read each Father,  
Whose words in this sort thou hast scratched together?  
If not (as doubtless not) sith thou'rt unlearned,  
O how presumptuous then art thou discerned!  Jail. 
I answer freely; some I've read, not all  
The Works of these whose witness forth I call.  
The most I've read, even as they are translated,  
By those to whom thyself art ' sociated:  
Which therefore must more claim thy estimation,  
Than if they were the fruit of my translation.  Cathederal. 
Whereas my Sprinkling thou so ill dost brook,  
Thou mayst remember, if thou please to look.  
Into my Common-Prayer-Book, I allow 
See vulg. Catechise in Com. prayer-book.   
That way in case of weakness. But I show,  
In the same place, that dipping is God's way  
For Baptism to be performed this day.  Jail. 
I do confess thou sayst so; but, behold,  
When thou presumed for to be so bold  
To give an inch, thy Doctors took an ell:  
And now this weakness doth all strength expel  
Out of thy Church. And God's way is rejected,  
And, as a foolish thing, by thee neglected.  Cathedral. 
No Alteration in these things I see  
Will be assented to by such as thee!  
As if we must in these cold Climates go  
Into the Water when baptised! But lo.  
The time requires the Conference should end,  
Now therefore unto what remains descend.   

CHAP. V.  
The Arg.  
The Minster's Consistory Court  
The Jail to visit goes:  
The Minster takes it in ill sort  
She should that place disclose.  Jail. 
MOngst other things whereby Christ's Church doth shine,  
We are to reckon Christian Discipline.  
This Ornament thou wants. Whence I conclude  
Christ's Church consists not of thy multitude,  
Nor yet of this thy gorgeous Courtly Tent;  
Because you all reject Christ's Government.  Cathederal. 
What! dost ' come here to hold thy Visitation?  
That thou beginst to make this exclamation  
Against my Court; whose ways thou cast not know,  
Nor will I unto thee my secrets show.  
Yet will I this my Government maintain  
'Gainst which thou mayest strive, but all in vain.  Jayl. 
Well, but before we try thy Discipline,  
Let's take a view of those brave men of thine,  
Which are thy Officers; let's know their names  
(Or Titles) for, behold their glorious Trains  
Seem to import they are no Fishers mates,  
Nor yet (like Paul) Tent-makers sociates.  Cathederal. 
These are their Titles; and the first degree  
Arch-Bishops are; the next Lord-Bishops be,  
Attended with their Bishops, Suffragans,  
Arch-Deacons, Deans and Chapters, Courtesans;  
With judges, Surrogates, and Proctor's store,  
Apparitors, with very many more.  Jail. 
Arch-Bishops and Lord-Bishops! what is this?  
Did not our Saviour all such titles hiss  
Out of his Church, when his Disciples would  
Have been the chief, that so they might have ruled  
By Domination over those, to whom  
Christ did intend they servants should become?  Cathederal. 
Unless these Titles 'gainst plain Scripture be,  
Thou canst not them condemn, nor do I see  
Those Texts alleged which any whit oppose  
These Titles, but 'tis meant of such as those  
Which Papists give unto their Popes: But I  
Have eft condemned that Supremacy.  Jail. 
Thy Titles are as much beyond the Line  
Of holy Writ, and full as clandestine  
As those amongst the Papists: for whilst they  
Make one great Pope (now heed well what I say)  
Thou makest many Popes; for thy Arch-Lords  
Their Fancies force upon us for God's words.  Cathedral. 
ay thee require some Scriptures to produce  
Which shows my Titles to be such abuse  
As they prohibit; otherwise thy plea  
In this our contest cannot mine outweigh:  
For all things which 'mongst Papists are esteemed  
Must not unlawful for that cause be deemed.  Jail. 
Peter (an Elder) Elders doth command  
The Church's oversight to take in hand, 
1 Pet. 1. 5.   
Without becoming Lords; and Paul avows  
He preached Christ as Lord, and likewise shows  
He preached himself a servant (for Christ's sake) 
2 Cor, 4. 5   
To th'Church; now this against thy Lords doth make.  Cathedral. 
'Tis true, the letter of these Scriptures do  
Seem to oppose Lord-Bishops, but you know  
The Scripture hath a secret sense, and can  
Not easily be understood; now then  
How canst thou tell the Lordship here, is meant  
Of those Lord-Bishops which my Church frequent.  Jayl. 
The Texts must needs be meant of some that lord it  
In things Temporal: or (as thou dost word it)  
Of Lords Spiritual. But Peter doth  
Allow the first; yea, and to speak the t●oth,  
Commands the Church all such (as such) t'obey:  
Ergo, 'tis Spirit' Lords he thrusts away.  Cathedral. 
Thy major Proposition must be true,  
Sith needs it must be meant of one of th'two.  
Thy minor's likewise true: Peter doth call  
The Church t'obey Lords Magistratical.  
That then I must deny, is thy Conclusion:  
And truly why? It makes for my confusion.  Jayl. 
If th' Propositions both be verified,  
Th' Conclusion can in no wise be denied,  
Logicians say: and therefore thou art one,  
That from both Truth and Reason's so far gone,  
As neither will thy Lordship cause to bend,  
Till Christ the Lord his Judgements on thee send.  Cathedral. 
Leave off, proud Jail, thou art not yet my Judge;  
But thou shouldst rather know thyself my Drudge.  
Nor will I thus permit thee, at this season,  
To charge me with the want of Truth or Reason.  
Turn then thy course unto my Discipline,  
And do not thus my Lordship undermine.  Jayl. 
Thy Discipline we must find in thy Court,  
To which I see poor men (compelled) refort  
To pay their Money. And I also see  
Thy Officers as greedy of their Fee  
As any Lawyers; And I likewise hear  
These Fees do make them reel with Wine & Beer.  Cathedral. 
Touching my Court thou shalt instructed be  
Ere long what they do there, I'll warrant thee.  
And as for those who come unwillingly,  
They're such as from my Laws have trod awry:  
And I shall let such know their punishment  
Must pierce their purse, till they be penitent.  Jayl. 
Purse-penalties the Church of Christ knows none,  
As she is such, nor can it once be shown  
In all the Apostolical Directions  
In holy Writ, there should be such exactions.  
And doubtless whilst thou thus minds earthly things  
Paul under a most sharp reproof thee brings.  Cathedral. 
Purse-penalties alone may not excuse  
Those that my Laws presumptuously abuse:  
for Heresy deserves the most severe  
Chastisement, others for to put in fear,  
Even Confiscation, 〈…〉,  
This crime 〈◊〉, the holy Scripture saith.  Jail. 
This i● a Monstr●●● Disciplin● fo● you,  
Who Gospel Laws pretend for what you do.  
'Tis true, by 〈◊〉, Death might be inflicted  
On some 〈…〉:  
But if the Church in 〈◊〉  
Should so proceed, 'twould now prove Persecution.  Cathederal. 
Here thou 〈…〉▪  
But I am clear from such 〈◊〉:  
For I no 〈◊〉; but 〈◊〉,  
I punish such 〈…〉,  
That I might them reduce from Heresy,  
Or others keep in Christian purity▪  Jail. 
That thou ' it a 〈…〉  
Witness in part some 〈◊〉 whom thou ha●t slain▪  
And partly some thou do●t at this day keep  
In Prison, only cause they cannot sleep  
With thee in 〈◊〉, but the L●●d's Precepts  
Have chosen as a Rule unto their steps.  Cathederal. 
Those I 〈◊〉, and these I have slain,  
Are such as would in Here●ie remain;  
Yet 'tis not really I, but 't●● the Pours  
Which punish 〈…〉 these Ma●●● of yours.  
'Tis true, 'tis I advi●e them thus to do it,  
And so shall still, and care not who do know it.  Jail. 
So 'tis my will, is all the rule indeed  
By which thou do●● thus ●idgedly proceed.  
For from good ground it never can be showed  
That thou or other aught to have embrued  
Your hands in their blood, who did well behave them  
In all things civil, but to God should leave them.  Cathederal. 
So than it seems for things merely religious  
Thou would have no man slain; O most prodigious!  
But then the T●res will overgrow the Wheat,  
And every one will publish his deceit.  
Whereas by ●●ans of my sharp punishment  
These evils I can easily prevent.  Jail. 
'tis known that for more than three hundred years  
The Church had no defence from worldly Peers;  
Yet Truth with purity did greatly prosper;  
Errors they quashed as fault as they did foster;  
At least in such sort as may equalise  
What thou hast done by severe penalties.  Cathederal. 
I said that 〈◊〉 would 'mongst the Wheat increase,  
But this thou tacitly goest by in peace.  
'Tis not the Heresy, but Heretics,  
There is the spinch where this Conference sticks.  
Now if to Kings it do not appertain  
These Tares to put away, they must remain.  Jail. 
To them it appertains not as they're Kings:  
For so men may be, though plunged deep in things  
Which makes them Heretics: Also the Tare  
Which Christ intendeth, by him suffered are  
Here to ●e●ain▪ until the Judgment-day,  
Yet hath the Church them always put away.  Cathedral. 
Well; this in short I see is thy opinion,  
Kings ought protect all those in their Dominion  
In Life, Estate, and all things necessary,  
If from their Civil Laws they do not vary.  
As for the Church she only may do this,  
Punish with Censures such ●s do amiss.  Jail. 
What is the utmost bounds of Kingly powers  
I'll not dispute in this discourse of ours,  
Which may perhaps be more than I well know:  
Yet sure in Church-respects the Scriptures do  
Not give them power (as Kings) to execute  
Church-Discipline, and that's what I dispute.  Cathedral. 
If Kings did not assist by penalties  
My Church, I see men would me soon despise:  
Nor could I live, sith all my Maintenance  
I chiefly have by their good Countenance.  
And hence it is men readily obey  
My Discipline in whatsoe'er I say.  Jayl. 
Alas, alas, that thus it should be said,  
And truly too! O how's Christ's Gospel made  
A mere pretence, whilst men their Bellies do  
Make their great God. But this th' Apostles show  
Was once the, way that false Apostles went;  
And to the same way they are still intent.  Cathederal. 
What, wouldst thou have men sit i'th' Church as Judges  
Of her misdoings, only as her Drudges.  
Take from my Church the profits thereto due,  
And Officers thou wouldst find but few.  
And thus the Church-affairs would soon be slighted  
Yea and perhaps the Church would be benighted.  Jayl. 
Benighted! why? Is Silver your great Candle,  
Or th'oil that feeds it? One this point did handle  
In the Affirmative (who appertains  
Unto thy Church) when like to lose his gains  
Of Tithes. But Paul, yea and all such as he,  
Used to perform their Office without Fee.  Cathedral. 
Paul doth allow such as do minister  
In Church affairs, thus to be sinister,  
So as to live upon the Church; So than  
We do what Paul allows, ev'● all my men,  
Which at my Altar serve, or in my Court.  
Thus have we Fees and Tithes in Gospel-sort.  Jayl●. 
Such as are taught, aught to communicate  
By gift to such as do officiate;  
That it might be a fruit to the account  
Of such as give: but no Text doth amount  
To prove, that you by force should aught compel  
For what you p●●ach, from those mongst whom ye dwell.  Cathedral. 
I see thou wouldst all our holy things  
Proceed as fruits which from the Spirit springs,  
Whether our service to the Church, or their  
Respects to us for all our pious care.  
But still I tell thee n●ll thus my Revenue,  
Nor Church nor Ministry would long continue.  Jail. 
No Argument more clear that thou art none  
Of Christ his Spouse, that fair and lovely one;  
Whose things are all performed by Charity,  
Which works by love. Now this disparity  
'Twixt her and thee, shows you cannot be one,  
Till Grace abound, and Selfishness be gone.  Cathederal. 
I will not yield to this thy Argument,  
Yet further talk about it I'll prevent,  
And hear if thou hast yet a fresh Objection  
Left unpropounded, more for my detection.  
Then prove thyself, what thou denieft to me,  
To wit, Christ's Church; now let's thy Answer see.  Jail. 
Object! a very redious thing it were  
To say all that might be objected here.  
But this I say, the walking of thy Churches  
Shows that amongst you all uncleanness lurches;  
So that, as Paul saith, it were a great shame  
The things you do in secret, once to name.  Cathederal. 
What then, 'tis known we have a discipline  
Provided, to the end we may refine  
Ourselves from these enormous voluptions,  
And we have now removed some corruptions,  
The rest in time may be removed all;  
Intending this, I am not criminal.  Jail. 
Thy Discipline small power hath, but where  
Thou may stiget money; or something appear  
That's truly godly, those are punished:  
But even in thy Court is found inbred  
Great vileness, and of late it is increased  
Abroad much more than when thy Court last ceased.  Cathederal. 
Leave prying thus into my Churches walking.  
I'm tired out with thy unpleasant talking;  
Enough expect to hear thine own defence,  
But not in this interchanged conference,  
But by a speech continued, till thou do  
The heads of what thou holdest plainly show.  Jail. 
The heads of what I hold, than I will show,  
As 'twas presented to the Kings own view;  
Signed with forty hands of such as own  
The said Confession, which hath now been shown  
In most parts of this miserable Nation,  
Whose Church doth change, 〈…〉 Powers have translation.   

CHAP. VI  
The Arg.  
The Jail the Symbol of her Faith  
With Scripture tied doth sing,  
And brings some of the Ancients forth  
To witness every thing.  

I. ARTICLE.  
ONe God alone (the Father) I believe,  
From whom all things their being did receive, 
1 Cor. 8. 6   
Eternal, glorious, and his Attributes 
Isa. 40. 28   
To tell forth fully no tongue once reputes  
Itself sufficient, but with admiration  
Must give to him the highest Adoration.   

The Witness of Antiquity.  
There is but one God; in Trinity three Persons, 
Athanasin Symb.  in Unity one God.  
We believe, hold and faithfully maintain, that God the Father, begat his Wisdom, by which all 
Aug. the Civitar. Dei, chap 11. and chap. 24.  was made, his only Son, one with one, coeternal, most equal; and that the Spirit is both of the Father and of the Son, consubstantial and coeternal with them both; and that this is a trinity in respect of the persons, and but one God in the inseparable Divinity, etc.   

II. ARTICLE.  
In the beginning God created Man,  
In a condition so complete, as than 
Gen. 1. 31 Eccles. 7. 29. Gen. 2. 27 & 3. 17, 18, 19   
No misery was mixed therewithal;  
From which he by transgression took a fall,  
And hereupon he misery archieved  
On him and's off spring: yet it is believed  
By me, that both this death and misery  
Extendeth not to all eternity.   

The Witness of Antiquity.  
By the death of the body, we read, that some 
Aug cont Advers. l. 1. c. 16.  have died not for their own, but for the sin of others:— But in the death of the soul none dieth for the sin of another.  
For as in Adam all die, both just and unjust; so 
Ambros. in 1 Cor 15. 22.  in Christ shall all, both believers and unbelievers, rise, though unto punishment.   

III. ARTICLE.  
There's one Lord Jesus Christ I do believe, 
Luke 20. 24. Rev. 22. 16. 1 Tim. 2. 5, 6. Heb 2. 9 1 Joh. 2. 2.   
By whom all things their beings do receive,  
The only (natural) Son of the most High,  
Yet born of Mary in virginity,  
And so considered is as David's Son  
And Offspring for to sit upon his Throne.  
Yet as he is the Son of God, he's Lord,  
And Root of David, and th' Eternal Word.  
This is he whom the Father freely sent  
In his great Love, into the World, who went  
As freely, and to death for all he gave  
Himself, that all to life recourse might have.   

The witness of Antiquity.  
The World being all at peace, Christ (according 
Aug. de Civitat. Dei. l. 18. c. 46. & lib. 1●. cap. 11. & lib. 11. c. 2.  to the precedent Prophecy) was born in Bethlehem Judah, being openly Man of the Virgin his Mother, and secretly God of God his Father— Christ Jesus, the substance of Israel, and the son of David;— God's Son of God, taking on our Man without wasting Godhead, ordained Faith to be a pass for man to God, by his mean that was both God and Man.   

IV. ARTICLE.  
God's will is not that any man should perish;  
Wherefore, that dying mankind he might cherish, 
1 Tim. 2. 4 Mark 16. 25. 2. Pet. 2. 1. Joh. 3. 18 & 3. 17. & 1. 7. Act. 17. 30 1 Joh. 5. 10.   
His Son, the Lord of all, hath given Order  
The Gospel should be preached in each Border,  
to every Creature, and to every Nation,  
To wit, that God holds forth Non-imputation  
Of sins; so that men shall not die, because  
Christ died not for them; but because his Laws,  
And Word, which calls for Faith in his rich Death,  
Men do reject, and so themselves bequeath 
Heb. 3. 10, 18, 19   
To Infidelity. Hence it is clear,  
That to all men at sometime doth appear  
So much of Grace, as if they rightly mind it,  
It holds forth Life to them that they find it.   

The test of Antiquity.  
God would have all men to be saved, but if 
Ambr. in 1 Tim. 2.  they come to him, he so would it, not as that he would save them against their will.  
Christ in mercy was born for all; but the unfaithfulness of Heretics is the c●use that he that 
Ambr. l. 3 de Fide. cap. 4. ●ug. tom. 7. Artic. falso.  was born to all, is not born for all.  
In respect of the greatness of the price, the Blood of Christ is the Redemption of the whole World.   

V. ARTICLE.  
Concerning those whom Christ appoints for such 
Act. If. 22 23, 24. Acts 11. 19, 20. & 13 2, 3 & 1. 23.   
As are the Pastors of the Gospel-Church,  
I do believe that they must first be added  
Unto the Church, as were those who were gladded  
With Peter's words; and growing in their stations  
In gtacious gifts and good qualifications,  
And throughly tried, by their exereising  
Their gifts, the holy Scripture so advising;  
Such men the Church may choose & them ordain, 
1 Cor. 1. 19, 21. 1 Cor. 2. 1, 4, 5.   
(To minister as Pastors in Christ's Name)  
By laying on of hands with holy prayers,  
Assigning them to their respective cares,  
To gather Churches; or to feed and guide them. 
Rom. 2. 21.   
But as for such who for a while abide them  
In humane Schools, only to be instructed  
In humane Arts, and so to be inducted  
(Without Repentance, and Baptism succeeding,  
With growth in Grace) unto a Parish feedi●n;  
Or rather to feed on their large Revenue,  
Than to gain souls to Truth, there to continue:  
Such I do say no Teachers ought to be,  
But should be taught the Christian A. B. C.   

The rest of Antiquity.  
Eusebius all edging the Epistle of Alexander Bp 
Eus●●. 〈◊〉 l. c. 11.  of Jernsalem, against Demetrius, saith; Thou sayest it was never seen that the lay and secular people should dispute of the Faith in the presence of the Bishops. I marvel what moved thee to affirm a Lie so evident, inasmuch that as often as there is found any man that is sufficient and apt to give good counsel, and to instruct the people, the Bishops have accustomed to desire him to do it; as the Bishop of M●o● did Enelpius, etc.— And there is no doubt but that the other Bishops may do the like in their Dioceses, when they find any one which is a man fit to profit the people.  
Ye drive them from God's Word, and will let 
Eccius Book of Obead. fol. 19  no man come thereto, till he have been two years' Master of Arts. First you nurse them up in Sophistry, and in bene fundantum, and there corrupt their judgements;— then they begin not at the Scripture, but each one chooseth himself a Doctor severally, etc.   

VI ARTICLE.  
Touching the way of man's Justification  
Before the Lord, in order to Salvation; 
Rom. 5. 1 2 Cor. 5. 15. Rome, 4. 22, 23, 24   
I say, it is by Faith in Christ our Lord,  
That is, with heart believing that sweet word,  
Which shows to man in Christ there is remission  
Of sins for all through faith & through contrition;  
For which great cause Christ worthily bespeaketh 
Rom. 3. 25, 26.   
Their chief affections, and their fouls so breaketh  
Wholly to yield to Christ's most just Commands,  
And to deny all Self, which Christ withstands;  
And eke with godly sorrow do commit  
Themselves to Christ's Grace to depend on it.  
Such like believing men are justified;  
Their Faith will Righteousness be found when tried.   

The test of Antiquity.  
The Medicine of the Soul is the only propitiation for the sins of all; that is, to believe in Christ.  
How virtuous soever the ancient righteous persons 
Aug. in verb Dom serm. 40. Aug. lib. cont. Felag c. 21.  have been, they were not saved but by Faith.  
It is manifest that such as have Faith in Christ, shall not be saved unless they have the Life of 
Greg. l. 6 ep. 15.  Faith.   

VII. ARTICLE.  
There is but only one most holy Spirit,  
Which God doth give such richly to inherit 
Eph. 4. 4.   
As do obey his Voice, that they thereby  
May have the Grace themselves to mortify,  
And be enabled in the Truth to stand 
Act, 5. 31.   
Immovably (thou't which no mortal hand  
Can do the work of God) and that we may  
Honour the Father and the Son each day,  
Who is the Author and the Consummator  
Of all our Faith. And John (that Revelator) 
1 Cor. 6. 11. Gal 5. 22. 23.   
Doth say, this Father, Son and holy Spirit  
Are One; and so the Name of God they merit.  
The fruits which follow this great gifts reception  
Is growth in every grace, and sins rejection.  
Wherefore we say, these have it not received  
Who are of Love (that Spirit fruit) bereft,  
Or destitute; so as they such deny  
A quiet life, that would live peaceably.   

The test of Antiquity.  
That Spirit being the Fathers and the Sons, is 
Aug. the Civ. Dei, l. 11. c. 10  properly in Scripture called the Holy Spirit; It is neither Father nor Son, but personally distinct from both; and this Trinity is one God.  
Behold the sign and token, whereby ye shall know those that are of God from the evil and 
Rupert. in Apoc. c. 13.  wicked. Those are the wicked which do kill and lead into captivity, the which all those that are of God have not done nor do.  
O Lord God, these are the chiefest and first that 
Bernard serm. conver. Paul  persecuted thee, whom men see to love the highest seats and rooms in thy Church, and which bear the greatest rule. They have taken the Ark of Zion; they have occupied and used the Castle; and have afterward frankly and by power set all the City on fire: Their conversation is miserable: The subversion of thy People is pitiful.— Now holy Orders are given for occasion of most filthy gain, and they think gain to be piety and godliness.   

VIII. ARTICLE.  
About Election this is that I've said,  
That God from aye, before the World was made, 
Joh. 3. 16. Eph. 1 4.   
Hath chosen unto Life such as believe,  
And so in Christ through grace he'll them receive.  
Yet I am confident God's purpose here 
2 Thess. 2. 13. Rome 9 11   
Stands not upon what Faith did fore-appear,  
Or Works done by the creature, but alone  
God's Mercy, Kindness and Compassion. 
Psal. 4. 3.   
Thus 'tis of God who calleth: Yet behold  
Let no man think that now he may be bold  
To live in sin: for as our God is pure,  
So can he no ungodly man endure.  
Then this Decree to every Godly man  
Hath its extent, as David witness can.   

The test of Antiquity.  
According to his mercy he saved us. This goodness which doth flourish in Christians doth 
Amb. in Tit. 3.  arise out of the root of Divine Piety or Love; for God by his Mercy hath saved us in Christ.  
The Apostle saith not, he hath chosen us when we were holy, but that we should be holy. 
Jerom apol. ad Ruffin. August.   
Election goeth not only before Works, but before Faith, where all good Works do begin.   

IX. ARTICLE.  
Concerning Reprobation this I say,  
No men (as men) of old were cast away, 
Judas 4. 2 Thess. 2 10, 11, 12.   
But as they have God's Grace in wantonness  
Abused, and lived in ungodliness; 
Rom. 2. 9, 10, 11.   
To those indeed God sendeth strong delusions,  
That they might damned be. Sith vain confusions  
They rather chose than Truth in faithful love;  
And hence it is God's Wrath 'gainst men doth move;  
Yea against every soul that doth evil,  
So as to die the servant of the Devil.   

The test of Antiquity.  
The Damned cannot complain justly, because 
Amb. l. 2. de vocat. Gent. c. 1. etc. 2.  it is their wickedness that doth cast them down into pain.— He was worthy to lose an unprofitable Faith, which did not exercise Charity.  
God is good, and he is just. He may save a man without good works of his, because he is 
Aug,  good; but he cannot condemn any man without his evil deserts, because he is just.   

X. ARTICLE.  

Concerning Infants, I believe they shall  
Suffer no death, but that that's temporal;  
And this their father Adam brought upon them:  
But th'second Adam shall take it quite from them. 
1 Cor. 15. 22.   
And further than that death that's temporal  
No one shall die for Adam's sinful fall.   

Christ hath avouched Infants ' thou't exception  
To appertain to Heaven: Then rejection 
Mat. 19 14.   
Of Infants into Hell, is such a preaching  
As doth want Charity, and cross the teaching  
And nature of our God. Yet thus they teach  
Who do the Church her Baptism impeach,  
Contending that to Infants it pertains,  
To some of whom yet they allow no gains  
By means of Christ his Death; for this they say,  
He only died for some. And now we may  
Demand how they did know he died for those  
Whom they baptise, and did the rest dispose  
To hellish torments? See the cruelty  
Of those who sprinkle Babes infancy!    

The test of Antiquity.  
By the death of the body, we read of some that have died not for their own but for others sins; 
Aug, cont ad vers.  But in the death of the soul none dieth for another.  
God cannot condemn any man without his evil 
Aug.  deserts, because he is just.   

XI. ARTICLE.  

The only way by God and Christ ordained,  
Whereby the sons of men should be constrained 
Mat. 28. 19, 20. Mark 16. 16.   
To sit down in Christ's Church, is Gospel-preaching,  
Wherein a reconciled God is stretching  
His Hand of Love extensively to all; 
Acts 2. 38 Acts 8. 12   
And then to dip or baptise such as shall  
Repent from sin, and faith in Christ profess,  
Through God's forbearance and great tenderness. 
& 18. 12.   
I say, such only as are catechised, 
Gal. 4. 22 23, 24.   
Are in the Scripture bid to be baptised  
Into the Name of Father, Son, and Spirit.   

But as for those who would by Legal merit, 
Matth. 3. 8, 9   
Or Parent interest, bring a fleshly seed  
Into the Gospel-Church, all such indeed  
I do deny, with that Scriptureless thing, 
Eph. 5. 11   
Most truly called Infant Sprinkling.  
Which custom hath, or would make void God's Word,  
And bind the Church still with a Legal cord  
Unto a fleshly line; And the New-birth  
Would, as a useless thing, fall to the Earth.  
This is one reason why we separate  
From all such persons, that participate  
We may not with these darksome ways of theirs,  
But rather by reproofs break through these snares.    

The test of Antiquity.  
The Lord commanded his Apostles that they should first instruct and teach all Nations, and 
Jerom in Mat. 28.  afterward should baptise those that were instructed in the mysteries of Faith. For it cannot be that the body should receive the Sacrament of Baptism, unless the soul hath received before the true Faith.  
The dipping into the Water, is the going down into Hell: the coming up out of the Water is 
Council of Worms chap. 5. Wilfrid. Strabo de rebus Eccles. c. 26  the Resurrection.  
We must know that at the first, Believers were baptised simply in Floods and Fountains.   

XII. ARTICLE.  
I also do believe that the baptised  
Believing souls, ought thus to be advised, 
Heb. 6. 1, 2.   
To seek unto the Lord for his donation 
Acts 8. 12 5, 17.   
(The Spirits gifts) for their mortification,  
That by that Grace, their Life & their Profession 
Acts 19 6. 2 Tim 1 6 Rom. 8. 13.   
May not unto each other seem oppression.  
The way to ask this Gift in Scripture stands,  
Known to be Prayer, with laying on of hands,  
As one first point which in Christ's doctrin's shown,  
Whereby his Saints are from all others known.   

The test of Antiquity.  
Laying on of hands hath ever been the custom of the Church. 
Jerom ad Lucif. Aug de Bapt. l. 3. c. 16. Eras. paraph. on Heb. 6. 1, 2.   
Laying on of hands, what is it but prayer over a man?  
The first degree of Christianity, is, to be repentant of our former life;— Next to be taught that true-innocency and soul-health is to be hoped-for of God. Then forthwith that we be purged by holy Baptism. Then that we receive the holy Ghost by laying-on of hands.   

XIII. Article.  
Concerning Perseverence, this I say,  
And do believe, that in Christ's blessed way  
Men ought, without a tossing to and fro, 
Act. 2. 42.   
Continue steadfast; and these things must do,  
Meet in a Church-Society together,  
In the Apofiles Doctrine, to consider  
And call to mind in Prayer, with breaking Bread,  
Their Saviour, till he come to raise the dead.   

The test of Antiquity.  
I pray you, O ye Bishops, which do think your 
Hillary contra Auxent.  selves to be so, What Suffrages have the Apostles used for to preach the Gospel? with what power were they aided? Did they assemble the Church by the King's Edict? They nourished and kept themselves by their hand-labour— and assembled the Church— against the Edicts of Kings.  
— When wise and good People do meet together, we must not call that a Faction or Sect.— 
Tertull. Apol. c. 29  Saint Luke declareth the Order of the Primitive-Church; That the Faithful assembled themselves often times— for to preach the Word, and celebrate the Lords Supper.— We assemble to pray for the Emperor, etc.— and for Peace— to make commemoration of Divine Scriptures, and do feed and nourish the Faith with voice and holy words— We plant and graft most strongly our Faith; And do labour much to imprint in our hearts the discipline of the Commandments.   

XIV. Article.  
I say moreover, though I thus contend  
For th'old Church way, that men must either mend 
Heb. 12. 14 Isa. 1. 11, 12, 15, 16   
As well in point of Life, as their Profession,  
Shunning with all their might sin & transgression;  
And in religious things be still devout,  
Else from heavens joys the Lord will thrust them out.  
He that wants Holiness sees not the Lord.  
Let him that readeth meditate that word.   

The test of Antiquity.  
Let not sinnets therefore and wicked men secure 
Aug. the Civ. Dei. l. 21. c. 25  themselves by their continuance in the Church— nor renounce Christ their Justice, in committing any or all of the fleshly works, spoken of, Gal. 5. for he saith expressly, they shall not inherit the Kingdom of God which do such deeds.  
— He that abideth in Christ, etc. hath taken the meat of Life— but he that discordeth from 
Prosp. in l. de sent:  Christ doth not eat the flesh of Christ— although he do take every day the Sacrament of so great a thing.   

XV. Article.  
(As once I said) The Church's Pastors ought  
From 'mongst wel-graced Christians to be sought,  
Chiefly such as have learned self-denial, 
Act. 14. 23 Ezek. 34. 2, 3.   
(In which few worldly Priests will bide the trial)  
And such as by the Church are thus elected,  
And eke ordained (as God's Word directed) 
2 Cor. 12▪ 14.   
Knowing to feed the Flock with meat in season,  
And to bear rule with Godliness and Reason, 
Ezek. 34.   
With love and care seeking such Sheep as stray;  
Such I do own as Teachers of God's way.  
But such as feed themselves with others fat,  
And keep the Flock from such like food as that  
Which only can their soul relieve: And who  
To seek for great Revenues rather go,  
Than to inquire into the state of souls:  
I say such Teachers do transgress the Rolls  
Of holy Writ, And therefore I deny them,  
And by this Testimony do decry them.   

The test of Antiquity.  
The Church was governed in times passed by the 
Hieron● ep. ad Evag.  common counsel and advice of the Presbyters— And that, Episcopum & Presbyterium unum esse; A Bishop and an Elder are all one.  
Frederick sent this Message to Adrian the 4th; We shut up our Cities against your Cardinals, because we see that they prey upon the People. They do not ratify Peace, but rake together Pence: They do not repair the World, but impair their Wealth.  
Let none be ordained to the Ministry, unless 
Con. Carthagene●s can. 22.  he first be examined of the Bishop, and approved by the People.  
— The Pastors should seek the Salvation of men's 
Con. Cahil. c. 6.  souls, not earthly commodity.  
All Clergy men that are strong to labour, let 
Con. Carthag. can. 51, 53.  them learn some Handicraft as well as Letters.   

XVI. Article.  
Such Ministers of Christ as have obtained  
Free gifts from God, freely they are ordained  
To serve the Church: and yet the Scripture wills 
1 Cor. 9 17. ver. 11. G●l. 6. 6.   
Some fruit for him which that ground rightly tills.  
Wherefore such as are taught, as freely should  
Communicate to them who forth do hold  
The Word of Life, upon their Work-account,  
That to the Givers good it may amount.  
But as for Tithes (th●se forced consecrations)  
I say, they are no Gospel-Ordinations.   

The test of Antiquity.  
If thou despisest not a Beggar, how much more oughtest thou to regard the Ox that treadeth out 
Aug. in Psal. 13.  the corn in the floor. And in Psal. 146. He saith — Thou scarce payest the thousand part, yet I find no fault; do so still: for I so thirst after your well-doing, that I refuse not your very crumbs.  
O Lord Jesus, thou hast multiplied the people, and thou hast not increased their joy-They have 
B●rnard.  removed the Offices— into shameful gain, and the health of souls is not searched for— they strive and contend most impudently daily by process for Bishoprics, Archbishoprics, etc. there remaineth nothing but the Man of Sin to be revealed, the Son of Perdition.   

XVII. Article.  
The Scripture saith that Heresies must be,  
And shows the way appointed us to free  
Our souls therefrom; for such as do erect them, 
Tit. 3. 10, 11. 2 Thess. 3. 6. Rom. 16. 17.   
The Church hath power wholly to reject them,  
After the first or second Admonition.  
Moreover, by Apostolic Commission  
She hath a power also to withdraw  
From such Disciples as transgress the Law  
Of Christ, in point of Worship, or of life;  
Peace to preserve, and terminate her strife.   

The test of Antiquity.  
The Ancient Canons make two kinds of Excommunications; one greater, the other less: 
Decret Greg. 5. tit. 39 cap. 59  the greater not to be inflicted but upon the account of mortal or deadly sin.  
Sins are not loosed nor retained at the pleasure of men, but according to the will of God, 
Aug de Bapt. l. 3. c. 13.  and prayers of the Church.   

XVIII. Article.  
Touching the point of falling off from Grace,  
I do believe men so may lose their place 
Joh. 15. 1, 2, 3, 4. 5   
In Christ the Vine (yea such as he doth say  
Is in him) and, lest they should fall away,  
Exhorteth them to make their biding-place 
1 Tim 1. 5, 6, 7. John 15. 6.   
In him; yea, such may fall away from Grace  
As once had Charity in pure heart,  
And conscience good; yea, that unfeigned part 
2 Pet. 1. 5, 6, 7.   
Of Faith: yet, wanting constant Watchfulness,  
May turn aside, so foully to transgress  
As to be withered branches, and in fire  
Burn and consume. But yet such as desire  
(With constancy) and do the same indeed,  
Add Grace to Grace, so certainly shall speed,  
As they shall never fall; yea, no deceit  
Of false Christ's can them possibly defeat.   

The test of Antiquity.  
It is to be believed that some of the children of perdition, receiving not the gift of Perseverence 
Aug. the corep. & gra. c. 13.  to the end, do begin to live in Faith that worketh by Charity, and for a time do live faithfully and justly, and after do fall.  
In time of temptation they fall away— Some therefore revolt from Faith, because Verity avoucheth 
Bernard ep. 42.  it; and by consequence from Salvation, because our Saviour rebuketh it; from whence we conclude from Charity also, without which Salvation cannot be obtained.   

XIX. Article.  

Such as are Poor in Christ his Congregation, 
● Cor. 9 7   
Ought to be cared for by the Donation,  
Or bounty of the Church (not by constraint) 
1 Cor. 8. 11, 12.   
Which care should hold proportion with the want.  
And for the more sufficient management  
Of this affair, the Church ought to appoint 
Acts 6. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5.   
Some faithful men therefore to be deputed,  
With laying on of hands: Thus constituted,  
They must now undertake this sacred Function, 
1 Tim. 2. 9, 10. 1 Pet. 3. 3   
The Church to keep in peace & sweet conjunction.   

Here be it noted, since men did decline  
From this appointment (holy and divine)  
And did by force compel, both rich and poor, 
Job 31. 14   
To pay a stinted portion to the Poor,  
(Which is but small) allotted for their living;  
It hath destroyed the Ordinance of giving  
By free-Collection; And now Charity  
With men's Estates holdeth no parity,  
But their large sums are laid out to maintain  
Gay clothing, Pearls, & all things which are vain.  
What will these men do when God riseth up  
To cause all men to taste his Judgment-Cup?    

The test of Antiquity.  
Sacred Orders we call Deacons and Presbyters; 
I●noc. 3. dec. Greg l 1. c. 14.  for these two the Primitive Church is found only to have had.  
That which men do by compulsion is not a sacrisice; forasmuch as if it be not done voluntarily 
Lactant. Fi●mian.  and with the heart, it's most execrable and accursed,  
If thou hast riches, labour by well-doing to 
Aug. ep: c 6. con. cabil. c. 6  store them up in Heaven.  
Christian's must not be compelled to give their substance.   

XX. Article.  
I do believe through Christ the Dead shall rise,  
Because he lives, who once did not despise 
Isa. 26. 19   
To die for them. Yea from the graves of earth 
Act. 24. 15   
Each individual body shall come forth,  
Both just & unjust; though when they were sown, 
1 Cor. 15. 21, 22, 42, 43, 44, 49   
Weakness, and all Infirmity was shown;  
Yet in the Resurrection they shall be  
Made strong and firm to all eternity,  
Each pious man, body and spirit joined,  
To their desired place shall be assigned.   

The test of Antiquity.  
Every part of the bodies, perishing either in death, or after it in the grave, or wheresoever; 
Aug. the Civ. Dei l. 22. c. 21.  shall be restored, renewed; and of a natural and corruptible body, it shall become immortal, spiritual, and incorruptible: Be it all made into powder or dust, or by chance or cruelty dissolved into air or water, yet can it not be kept hid from the omnipotency of the Creator, who will not have one hair of the head to perish. Thus shall the spiritual flesh become subject to the spirit, yet shall it be flesh still.   

XXI. Article.  
After the dead are come forth of the graves,  
Whether of Earth, or Seas fierce raging waves, 
2 Tim. 4. 1   
A Judgement that's eternal shall be given 
Heb. 7. 27.   
At Christ's appearing, coming down from Heaven,  
Which Judgement & which everlasting Sentence,  
Can never be revoked by repentance. 
2 Cor. 5. 10.   
Then good and bad, each must rewarded be,  
As Christ the nature of their work shall see.   

The test of Antiquity.  
In all these Chapters Augustine asserteth and proveth the resurrection of the Bodies of all men 
Aug. the Civ. Dei. lib. 20. c. 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 20, 21.  from the graves of earth, or howsoever consumed; and he proves the Bodies of the Saints shall be spiritual and glorious in the Resurrection, and yet that they cease not to be bodies of real flesh.  
And he proves that a body of flesh, and living, may endure in the fire unconsumed, and yet tormented. 
Aug. de Civ. Dei, l. 21. c. 2.  There are (saith he) a kind of Worms that live in the fervent Springs of hot Baths, whose heat is such as none can endure it at certain times, and yet those Worms do so love to live in it, that they cannot live without. Whence he observes, seeing bodies of flesh may live in fire, and be nourished by it, 'tis easy to believe that a body of flesh may live in the fine, and be tormented by it; because to nourish is not proper to the fervent heat of fire, but to torment is proper thereunto.   

XXII. Article.  
I do believe the same Christ which did show  
Himself alive by tokens plain and true; 
Acts 1. 3.   
Who was beheld ascending into Heaven, 
Luke 24. 51. Acts 1. 9, 10, 11. Col. 3. 4. Re●. 19 16. Psal. 22. 28. Zech. 14. 9 Psa. 72. 4 Rev. 5. 10 & 13. 15. 1 Cor. 3. 22, 23.   
Quite from the sight of the select Eleven;  
The same, the very same shall come again,  
In the same manner wherein he was ta'en  
Up from the Earth. And when he shall appear,  
The Saints their fruits of Faith shall richly wear.  
For Christ the King of kings and Lord of lords,  
Shall reign according to the holy words  
Of these great Prophets in the Margin quoted:  
For every Kingdom under Heaven's allotted  
Unto our Christ; yea, and unto his Saints,  
Whose heads a place to rest (sometimes) now wants.  
Yea, God hath said, they then shall rule the Nations, 
Dan. 7. 27 Rev. 2. 26, 27.   
Though here erst while they meet with Tribulations.   

The test of Antiquity.  
John's mention of a thousand years, Rev. 21. 
L●dovic. Vives comment on! Aug. the civet. Dei l. 20. c. 7.  and Christ's words, I will not drink henceforth of the fruit of the Vine, until the day that I drink it new with you in my Father's Kingdom, with many Prophecies touching Christ's Kingdom in Jerusalem, made some think that Christ would return into the World, raise the Saints in their Bodies, and live a thousand years here on Earth in all joy, peace and prosperity— The first Author of this Opinion was Papias Bishop of Jerusalem, who lived in the Apostles times. He was seconded by Irenaeus, Apollinarius, Tertullian, Victorinus, Picktaviences and Lactantius-— And many Martyrs and righteous persons held this opinion.   

XXIII. Article.  
The holy Scriptures are the Rule of Saints,  
In Faith and Life, sufficient for their wants, 
2 Tim. 3. 15, 16, 17. Joh. 20. 31 Isa 8. 20.   
Through Jesus Christ: Yea they are profitable  
To all good works, God's servants to enable.   

The test of Antiquity.  
The error of our forefathers ought not to be followed, but the Authority of Scripture and the 
Jerome Tom 6 in Jer. c. 9  Commandments of God, which he teacheth us. Truly, through ignorance of the Law, they receive Christ for Antichrist.  
I dare not use to receive that which I read not. 
Amb. the incarnate. c. 9 Aug. in Psal. 6●.   
Think not that it is in any other writing, if it be not in the Scripture: Let us seek to be resolved in the Gospel; If we find it not there, where shall we find it?   

XXIV. Article.  
In Gospel-times I do believe men ought  
In things Religious to be forced to nought 
Mat. 7. 12   
Against their Consciences, by Persecutions, 
& 13. 29, 30, 38, 39   
Or Penal Laws 'gainst Gospel-Institutions:  
But all should have like liberty, as those  
Who in like cases do desire to choose  
What they think nearest the Truth. But if the Powers  
Will take what's theirs, & not give us what's ours,  
We say they act not as the Lord directed,  
When he bade do to others what's expected  
By us from them. And tells us Tares with Wheat  
Must grow together till the Harvest great.   

The test of Antiquity.  
Ambition doth aid itself by the Name of Christ; 
Hill. cont. Auxent.  The Church doth fear and compel the people— She that was made holy by Persecutors terror, now persecuteth, etc.  
Let them both grow together until harvest— Which thing he spoke to forbid the shedding of 
Chrisost. Hom. 47. in Mat. 13.  Bould— for if the Heretics should be put to death, War should be without Truce, etc.  
This is then our desire unto your Reverence,— if it may be, that you would confer with our 
August. ep 58.  Bishop peaceably, to the end that Error might be taken away— and not Men taken away.  
But we, to the contrary, do not desire any, will 
Lactant. Firmian. Divin. Instit. lib. 5. cap. 21.  he nill he, to worship or adore our God— for we trust in his Majesty that he hath great power to avenge himself on them that contemn him.   

XXV. Article.  
This I believe concerning Magistrates  
In every Nation should be Potentates,  
For punishment of all that do transgress  
By sleshly lewdness or dishonestness; 
1 Pet. 2. 14.   
And that, in order thereto, Civil Laws,  
Who'd just & wholesome, ought ought decide the cause  
'Mongst Men (as such) ' thou't having vain respect 
Tit. 3. 1.   
Of persons; or to this or t'other Sect.  
Due Punishment, and likewise due Reward, 
1 Pet. 2. 13.   
Each one should have, ' thou't partial regard.  
And we believe Christ's Gospel doth enjoin 
Act. 5. 29.   
Ourselves, and all men, freely to resign  
Ourselves, as Subjects, unto Magistrates  
In their appointments. Only what relates  
Unto God's Worship, wherein this we say,  
That there such Rulers have no power to lay  
Their Edicts on men's Consciences by force.  
But if they do, yet shall we take't no worse,  
Than humbly tell them we must needs obey  
What God commandeth, rather than what they  
Herein appoint us: and shall never bow  
To Men in these concerns; Nor shall we show  
Ourselves rebellious, though they go to wrong us,  
But bear with patience what's imposed upon us.   

The test of Antiquity.  
Let every soul be subject to the higher Powers. He that enjoineth this to every soul, whom hath 
L●odens. Ep cont. Paschal. 2  he exempted from subjection to Earthly Powers?  
— I may not demand or ask these things but of him of whom I know I shall obtain them— I am 
Tertull. Apol. c. 30  his Servant— and am killed for his Doctrine— And do offer the best and greatest Sacrifice which he hath commanded.  
Trajan the Emperor did send to Pliny to make enquiry of the manner of the Christians Life, and afterwards to persecute them them. Pliny 
Plin. lib. 10 ep. 317  writ again, That after he had throughly enquired with most cruel torments, until such time as he delivered them into the Hangman's hand to see them executed, yet he never did find any other thing, but that they accustomed to assemble at certain times to sing praises unto Christ as unto God.  

Thus have I of my Faith confession made,  
To which the test of th' Ancients I did add,  
Not that I think there's any such like plea  
(Drawn from Antiquity) which more doth weigh  
Than doth the Holy Text, which I have brought  
In proof of every point; nor is there ought  
So truly Ancient as their divine sayings.   

But sith some tell us tales, to your dismayings,  
As though there's nothing in Antiquity  
Which standeth with that Ancient Verity  
Which now I hold; I for this cause have brought  
These Witnesses, to show, that whilst thou thought  
Antiquity was on thy side, thou dost,  
In very deed, of empty nothings boast:  
For sith I can from thine own Allegations  
Out of the Fathers, bring such clear quotations  
For what I hold, then doubtless I might show  
Yet many more, and them both full and true,  
For what I hold; and had I th' skill which thou  
Hast in the Ancients writings, might them show.  
And herein I could wish that men of parts  
(Who love the Truth) might so improve their Arts.   Cathederal. 

As touching this thy tedious Confession,  
To speak to every point would be oppression  
Unto my patience; Then wait my pleasure,  
For I to answer it must take some leisure.  
But I remember thou didst me detect  
As one inconstant. But that's thy defect.   Jail. 
Sith to thy charge I laid Inconstancy,  
I'll make't appear: For when the Papacy  
Possession took of the Commanding Power,  
Thou then turned Papist as 'twas in an hour.  
When Protestants got head, thou didst the same;  
When Neuter N O L, thou promptly bore his frame.  Cathederal. 
Why, must we not subject unto the Powers?  
We are not their Commanders, they are ours:  
So that if they command, we must obey,  
Tho Pa. Prel. Pres. or a compounded way;  
The Mass-book, Comon-Pray'r-book, or else neither;  
If so the King command, I'll observe either.  Jail. 
God's Worship never stood on such a pin  
To turn with Man's breath either out or in.  
God's Faithful Ones, in this case, did withstand  
The things that mighty Kings did oft command;  
And yet, as Kings, they ever them obeyed,  
And for their peace and good devoutly prayed.  Cathederal. 
This point, with others, hath been controverted.  
What I hold, and what thou hold'st, is asserted.  
We will therefore appeal to him for trial,  
Who doth no falsehood own, nor give denial  
To any Truth. And now for a Conclusion,  
I do conjure thee pray against Delusion.  Jail. 
That is my prayer; but I'll not pray with thee  
Till in the Truth we shall united be;  
Which we may be, if we ourselves deny,  
And learn of God in due humility;  
Which when thou dost in Truth, 'tis in my mind,  
Not here, but in the Jail, I shall thee find.  Cathederal. 
What! is the Jail and Truth so near united?  
This dreadful doctrine will make men affrighted,  
And few will find the Truth; for if 't be so,  
There's few to seek the Truth to Jail will go.  
Now fare thee well, keep that place as thy treasure,  
And I'll keep this, and here enjoy my pleasure.  Jail. 
Adieu Cathederal! go take thy fill  
Of Organ-Musick; And, sith 'tis God's will,  
I'll back to that unpleasant Cell of mine,  
Where some Truth's known, which else would never shine  
In its bright splendour: Also there our God  
Doth show himself a Father by his Rod.    

CHAP. VII.  
The Arg.  
The Jail doth soberly reflect upon the Conference,  
And several things to that effect having some reference.  

MY Muse thou'rt now returned into the Jail,  
And canst not with the Minster yet prevail  
To bow her ear to Truth, that it might win  
Her to the Ancient Truth, and from Rome's Sin.   

Now sith in this place of disconsolation  
None can deprive thy heart of meditation,  
Let us reflect upon what sights w● have seen  
In yonder Minster, who as some great Queen,  
Doth seem to sit in joy, in pomp and pleasure,  
With wealth & mirth, & other such like treasure.   

But yet in this Reflection, let us give  
Precedency to Christ's Church, which doth live  
This day in Jail, in holes and dens of Thiefs,  
Whose life, though such, yet there is nought that grieves  
A sinful Generation more, than that  
Her being here's not wholly extirpate.   

Lord, I have viewed thy most holy House,  
Thy Church, as it at first erected was,  
And with the beauty thereof I was moved  
There to sit down, as th' place I chiefly loved.  
In which Church I have seen my Saviour sweet,  
Rise up and wash his poor Disciples feet.  
There have I seen such as do minister,  
Deny themselves of all things sinister.  
There were thy Servants cl●d like other men;  
Their Instruments of Music were not Tin.  
There have I seen thy Servants generally  
Perform their Duty all in Charity.  
There have I seen thy Spirit giving Graces,  
Whereby each one were fitted for their places.  
There have I seen those Graces exercised,  
And none for doing so have been despised,  
Nor persecuted; But each one required  
To seek with choicest gifts to be inspired.  
There did I see a holy Discipline,  
The exercise whereof made Zion shine.  
And many other precious things I saw,  
In point of observation of God's Law.   

And having heard the Minster laid great claim  
Unto thy Church's Interest and Name;  
And yet, by her most earnest procuration,  
Some men she did surprise by captivation,  
And locked them up within my gates, because  
They would not cease to keep thy Ancient Laws.   

At this I marvelled, and therefore went  
To see what her pretence and practice meant:  
For I suspected deeply by these doings,  
Her feet were strayed from Zions' Ancient goings;  
Because from those men I could nothing gather,  
That showed them guilty of what she would father  
On them, to wit, that they were Peace-disturbers;  
Whereas in truth 'twas cause they were Vicecurbers  
Which caused them to be shut within my bars,  
Under pretence of Law, turned into snares.   

Now when I came into the Minster, walking  
I veiwed certain men which there were talking;  
Gallants of all sorts they appeared to be,  
And seemed to live in mirth and melody.   

On my right-hand there 'spide I a Convention,  
From whence proceeded very hot contention  
For Money-matters; Then I went to th' Choir,  
Where I saw many men in black attire;  
These took a little room one after other,  
And hereupon I did a little hover  
To see the period of that Conventicle,  
Or-Private Meeting; staying there a little,  
I saw their black all covered with white,  
And some so dressed they did me somewhat fright:  
For they had things upon them of the shape  
Of black Sheepskins, which hung down as the cape  
Of Cloaks, save that they reached to their ham●,  
Where hung a black tail, like unto a Rams.  
Some others had long shreds of black upon them,  
Like Hanging-sleeves, which hung down all along  
With cov'red Caps, such as I never saw (them,  
'Mongst men that feared God, & kept his Law.  
And some had red clothes girt about their shoulders  
Which seemed very strange to some beholders.  
And chiefly for, because the Protestants  
So frequently against the Pope descants  
With merry songs, because of such like dress  
As th' Papists use when they go to Mass-blessings.  
Yet thus arrayed, themselves did now address them  
Into the Choir, & prayed the Lord to bless them.  
And by and by I heard some Pipes resounding,  
Unto the Singers Voices quite confounding.  
At which indeed I stood as 'twere amazed,  
And on these roaring Instruments I gazed;  
As also on the Choir of Singing-Boyes,  
Until my head was 'stonish'd with the noise:  
For little else in truth could I retain,  
And so I thought to tarry there 'twas vain.   

Lord, this I speak to thee as not but knowing  
How they behave themselves; but whilst thus showing  
Their strange deportments, I do oft propose  
Unto myself such Questions as those.   

What if our Lord should come and view these men, 
1.   
And hear their Music, and demand of them,  
Who 'twas commanded them thus to be dressed,  
And use those Pipes, when they came to be blest?  
What Answer could they make? This I must say,  
(Were my case theirs) I'd blush and run away.   

If that be true (which some men do conjecture) 
2.   
That John yet lives, and should come to their Lecture;  
Could John suppose this Church was of his founding?  
Or would he close with th' Pipes melodious sounding?  
Or bear a part i'th' Song which these men sing?  
Or would he not, as one amazed, fling  
Out of their Choir? Doubtless all wise men think  
The last most likely, except those that wink  
At that clear Light which John hath set before him,  
In Christ's behalf, how men ought to adore him.   

Imagine Peter should among them stand 
3.   
In's Fishers coat, and there but take in hand  
A Text to open; would not such a sight  
Put these brave Gallants to a ghastly fright?  
But were this Generation truly lighted,  
They would see much more cause to be affrighted  
At those who love to walk in Garments long,  
As did the Pharisees, which used to wrong  
The People of God's Word, and took the Key  
Of Knowledge quite away, lest men should weigh  
And ponder their Devices and Traditions,  
And so discern their peccant Superstitions.   

Admit a pious Christian should come 
4.   
In Shepherd's russit-garb into their Room,  
And having of the Father's free Donation  
Received a proper gift of Exhortation;  
Would not these Queristers straight thrust him thence  
Should he his Gift but offer to dispense?  
And for his Coat-sake. Truth would be despised;  
A trick by Satan heretofore devised.   

Lord, see to what a pass poor man's inventions  
Hath brought us, sith they serve but for preventious  
To us from exercising of our Talents,  
Unless we be arrayed like these brave Gallants.  
Lord, at this door of man's Imaginations  
Hath crept in many great Prevarications,  
Under the specious name of Decency,  
And honouring of thy Name more reverently.  
But these pretences those ill fruits have born,  
men's ways have got th' applause, and thine the scorn.  
It is so at this day, O Lord behold it;  
For men are grown too lofty to be told it,  
Though they the bitter fruits thereof do feel,  
And must feel more and more, until they reel  
Into the ditch: For this, Lord, thou hast said  
Shall be the end of such as void have made  
Thy holy Word, that they their own Tradition  
May here observe, though unto their perdition;  
Unless it please thee by thy Gospel-sentence  
To call them timely unto true Repentance.   
FINIS.