An Humble APOLOGY FOR Non-Conformists: WITH Modest and Serious REFLECTIONS ON THE FRIENDLY DEBATE, And the CONTINUATION Thereof.  
By a Lover of Truth and Peace.  1 Cor. 4.13. Being defamed, we entreat. 2 Cor. 6.8. As Deceivers, and yet true. 
Printed in the Year 1669.   

To the Readers.  
THe Author of the Friendly Debate having smitten us on the face, both on the right cheek and on the left; lest our deep silence be brought in evidence to proclaim our guiltiness, and so having lost our Live, we should lose our good Names also, which ought to be dearer to us than our very Lives, It may seem high time to Apologise for ourselves, and to make it appear to the World, that we are not so black and ugly as we are painted, nor so bad as we are represented. Our Apology shall be that of the blessed Apostle St. Paul, a little altered, (against whom also they brought many and grievous Accusations, which they were not able to prove) They have not found us in the Temples (or Churches) disputing with any man: neither raising up the people, neither in the Synagogues, (or places of Convention for Religious Exercises) or in the City; neither can they prove the things whereof they accuse us. But this many of us confess, That After the way that they call Schism and Phanaticism, so worship me the God of our Fathers; believing all things that are written in the Old and New Testament, and in the Articles of Religion of the Church of England, so far as concerns the Doctrine of Faith and Sacraments. And are still ready to subscribe to all that the Learned and Famous Mr. Chillingworth saith was meant by Subscription; namely, That we are persuaded that the constant Doctrine of the Church of England is so pure and Orthodox, that whosoever believes it, and lives according to it, shall be saved; and that there is no Error in it, which may necessitate any man to disturb the peace, or renounce the communion of it. Now this being our Judgement, I humbly conceive we are acquitted from Schism in the Opinion of Mr. Chillingworth, and aught to be so in the Judgement of that learned and judicious Bishop Saunderson, who (as I have been credibly informed) being asked what he thought of the Subscription before mentioned, said, (after he had read it and considered it) I never subscribed in any other sense myself. And that this Subscription might suffice in Equity and Conscience (if the Supreme Authority should think fit) my Lord Chancellor Bacon hath declared in his Considerations about Ecclesiastical Affairs, tendered unto King James: His words are these,— For Subscription, it seemeth to be in the nature of a Confession, and therefore more proper to bind in the Unity of Faith; and to be urged rather for Articles of Doctrine, than for Rites and Ceremonies, and points of outward Government: for howsoever politic Considerations and Reasons of State, may require Uniformity, yet Christian and Divine Grounds look chief upon Unity. It is the Duty of all Christians to be zealous, and to contend earnestly for the Unity of Faith, and to labour with all their might with themselves and one another, for unity of affections: Luther's Motto becomes every good Christian, In quo aliquid Christi video illum diligo. That the most considerable Nonconformists are Sons of Peace, and not Sons of the Coal, may hence be argued, That those who were Joynt-Commissioners for the Reformation of the Liturgy, became humble and earnest Petitioners to their Fellow-Commissioners the Bishops, and others their Assistants, for peace. That we are not generally such Boutefeu's and Incendiaries as we are charged to be, may in part appear in this, That we published no Answer for so long a time to two such angry and provoking Pieces as these: And that little which is here done by way of Reflection, is with so great moderation: Doubtless if we had been utterly unable to have answered the Reason or Logic of these two Books, we could not have easily failed of abundantly requiting the Author of them with Stories and Recriminations.  
Were all the Irregularities and Impieties of Men of our own Coat, though Canonical, reckoned up, and should we give ourselves leave to look back thirty or forty years for matter of Accusation, (as the Author of the Friendly Debate sometimes doth) we might fill whole. Volumes with Erratas, and might occasion the common Enemy of out Religion, to triumph over, and the common People to trample upon the English Ministry. Had the Author we deal withal, had like Charity with Constantine the Great, or with King Charles the First, of blessed memory; he would rather have buried in silence the faults of the Ministry, than to have exposed them, whether real or imaginary, to the Eye of the World, to be beheld through a Multiplying and a Magnifying-glass, as he doth. Yea, had he not come short of Mr. White, the Centurist, in his Charity, he might have learned of him not to have published a Second Part to blaze abroad the faults of his Brethren; there being now no War to inflame him, no Adversary by any Reply to provoke him: The Non-conformists now outed, being down on the ground, down in the mire, (and yet perhaps neither so dirty, or so much sullied, as were some formerly Sequestered, there being neither Scandal, nor Insufficiency, so much as charged upon one of a thousand, as any Reason or Cause of their Ejectment.) Had be used the like Candour towards the Non-conformists that Dr. Moulin doth towards the Romanists; and which I believe he expects from us towards his own Party; he would never have charged the faults and errors of a part upon the whole, of a few upon all, a very few excepted; and so doing, he might have spared wholly his Continuation, and have much abridged his first Dialogue. He needed not to have made so many blazes as he doth, by so often firing men of straw of his own making; nor so great a noise in the world, by discharging so many great Guns, against Castles in the Air of his own building.  
But since he advanceth Reason so much in word, upon all occasion, we may wonder he hath made no more real use of it in his Discourse. For say we might (and think we can justify it) that his Words are more than his Matter, his Rhetoric far beyond his Logic; and therefore we choose rather that he should smite us with his Fist, than with the Palms of his Hands; I mean with his Logic, rather than with his Rhetoric. What Reason or Logic is in such a Discourse as this? Mr. T. W. and Mr. W. B. have Printed such and such things, therefore all, or almost all the Non-conformists are so and so; or Preach and Print thus and thus; or else Mr. jews Hughes, Mr. Viccars, the two Mr. Bridges, say or write thus; Ergo, this is the Way, the Spirit, and the Language of the whole Party. Or one or two in a Kingdom, or in the three Kingdoms, and that too, when the Kingdoms were all in a flame with the Civil War, were hot and fiery, etc. Ergo (now notwithstanding that there has been nine years' peace, an Act of Indemnity and Oblivion passed, the generality of men formerly divided, quiet and quietly disposed, uniting, cementing and soddering together, co-operating For the peace, settlement, and welfare of the whole (a few Clergymen excepted) all that were sometimes of the one Side or Party, must be looked upon as Hotspurs, Incendiaries, very dangerous Persons, Enemies to Authority still, etc. must have the skins of wild Beasts put upon them, and a hideous noise and outcry made after them, on purpose to stir up the People to hunt them down, or worry them; or else to move and provoke Authority to make and spread Nets and Toils to take them: Would it not have been more rational and Christian, more Logical and Theological, for the Author to have argued thus; Mr. Baxter, Mr. Allen, Dr. Tuckney, Dr. Conant, and many others now living, though Non-conformists, are good men, good Christians, good Subjects, good Preachers, good Writers; therefore we must not judge all our Brethren Inconformists, for the failings or miscarriages of a few? Or might not the Author of the Debate, if he had pleased; have argued much better and stronger, thus; Mr. Dod, Mr. Ball, Mr. Hildersham, Mr. Rathband, Mr. Geree, and many others of the old Non-conformists, were meek and moderate, serious and sober, zealous against Separation; therefore it hath not been the way and Spirit of Non-conformists to be turbulent, movers of Sedition in the State, or makers of Rent and Schisms in the Church? Or thus: Mr. Love and Mr. Gibbons laid down their Lives for their Loyalty, and Mr. Cawton was indicted of High-Treason for praying for his Majesty that now is: The London and Country Ministers declared zealously against all proceed against the Crown and Life of King Charles the First, of Blessed Memory: Mr. Vines, Dr. Spurstow, Mr. Young, lost their Mastership's at Cambridge, and others their places elsewhere, for refusing the Engagement. The Cheshire and Lancashire Ministers published a Book in Print against the Engagement, sided with Sir George Booth in his Undertaking for his Majesty. The Presbyterians generally throughout the Kingdom were cordial and zealous for his Majesty's Just and Royal Title: Therefore they are good men, and good Subjects to his Majesty. Or if you will, thus: The Presbyterians and other Nonconformists have really lost their Live, pretending to keep their Consciences, have been and still are generally either actively or passively obedient to the Laws; pray for, and seek the peace and happiness of the King and his Kingdoms; have in patience possessed their Souls above seven years together, and all this while have forborn, even in their private Meetings, all exasperating and provoking Language, or publicly in print, scurrilous Pamphlets or Libels against the Government. And have not (as the Author of the Debate hath) endeavoured to prejudice a great part of his Majesty's Subjects, by many Reproaches and Terms of distinction, contrary to his Majesty's Royal Declaration, ordaining, That all Notes of Discord, Separation, and difference of Parties, be utterly abolished among his Subjects: Therefore Presbyterians and other Nonconformists, are men of Peace, Religion and Loyalty.  
Forasmuch then as the Author of the Debate hath endeavoured with his Sparks of Wit and Fire, to inflame lightheaded and hotheaded Persons, (if it be possible) to make a combustion, contrary to the Law of the Land, the Peace of our Sovereign Lord the King, and the great Law of Love and Peace, the Act of Oblivion; I would advise him to do Justice upon himself, in executing his own Books in the Flames, for being Incendiaries. The worst I wish him is his Reformation; that for the time to come, he may be more charitable and good-natured; or more Sanguine than now he is, and less Sanguinary than these his Books speak him to be.  
Next to our desires to cure our Adversary, I hope we may have leave to go about to heal ourselves; and this I shall endeavour to do, by pulling out the Weapons that have made the wound, and by imitating the practice of the Sympathetical Doctors, namely, by applying some Sovereign Balsam, or Healing-Plaisters, to his two Weapons, his Sword and Dagger, or his Sword and Rapier, (call his two Books which you please) if by any means I may heal the wounds Which they have made.  
And though perhaps some others would never have scrupled to have answered these Pieces, Raillery with Raillery, or even Railing with Railing, and to have thrown that Dirt in his Face which he put into our hands; and to have laboured to quench his Wildfire, though with dirty and stinking Billingsgate Kennel-Water: Yet this hath not been my design, but rather the contrary, to overcome him with good usage and good words; and because I cannot give him as good Language as he brings, therefore to study to give him better; however nothing so bad; to use hard Reasons, and soft Words; and herein to follow the Reverend and Judicious Hooker, rather than Martin Mar-Prelate.  
As for the way and method I take in assaulting his two strong Holds or Forts, (which some think impregnable) namely, why I do not charge in a right Line, and rush directly upon the Pikes, the Noli me Tangere's of the Books; my answer is that of the Duke of Parma, upon occasion, I know very well what is fit for me to do, for the attaining my Ends, and am not come so far, to take counsel of my Enemy. Or as another Prince said, I will not take a burning Coal out of the fire with my bare Fingers, when I can do it better with a pair of Tongues. I add further, It doth not necessarily argue the want of a good Cause, or a good Courage, to come on the Flank or Rear of an Enemy as well as on the Front; or to seem sometimes to give Ground and Wheel-about, with a design to charge with the more advantage.  
I shall not detain you much longer, Good Reader, in the Porch, being sensible of being so long already: May I crave your leave to make a brief Declaration, a short Petition, and to enter a reasonable Protestation.  
I Declare, I do hold the Elders that Preach Well, or Rule well, or Live well, by what names or titles soever dignified or distinguished, whether they be Archbishops, Bishops, Pastors or Curates; whether they be Conformists or Nonconformists, to be worthy of double honour. And that I had much rather we could meet each other halfway, to reconcile our Differences, and to give each other the right hand of Fellowship, than to try it out for Victory by these Pen and Paper Combats any longer; lest Atheism and Popery be advantaged by our dissensions, and enter in at our breaches. I would not have Ministes of either persuasion, be like the silly Coneys that continually fight and tear one another, without ever joining to make resistance against the Polecat. I declare also, I do not, in, or by this Treatise, condemn Conformists, or commend Non-conformists as such; yet I cannot but own my utter dislike of the Principles and Practices of some high Conformists or Hector's for Conformity; namely, such as prefer the Romish Church, before the Reformed Transmarine Churches; Arminius before St. Austin; who judge Aerius a greater Heretic than Arrius; who have more charity for those that deny the Deity of our Saviour, than for those that scruple the strict jus divinum of Episcopacy; and who can with more Patience hear a Dispute against the very Being of a Deity, than about the taking away of a Ceremony; that profess themselves the chiefest Sons of the Church of England, and yet descent from her Doctrine contained in the Articles, Homilies, and Liturgy; and transgress the Laws of the Church about Rites and Ceremonies, by going too far on the right hand, or running too far before them, and become Non-conformists themselves, and breakers of the Act of Uniformity, even by their extreme Conformity. These, these are the Hectors, I mean, who when they have persuaded a man to strain hard to go a mile with them in Conformity, will compel him to go twain; that are implacable Enemies to Non-conformists, though peaceable and Pious; and are no good Friends to Conformists, except under the same degree of Longitude and Latitude with themselves: Yea, I may say, that notwithstanding their pretended zeal and devotion to the Hierarchy, look on former Archbishops, such as Grindal, Whitgift, Abbot, as Puritans, and would (if they could) Unbishop some of the present Bishops for Presbyterians.  
As tor the Author of the Friendly Debate, I hope better things of him; and though he be a Champion for the Conformists cause, and I differ from him in many things; yet I must confess I do not look on him as one of the Hectors before described; but I say of him rather, Talis quùn sit utinam noster esset; For I am confident, that one of his parts, learning and stile, could easily make a Dialogue, wherein the high Conformists should appear as simple and ridiculous as he hath made the Non-conformists.  
My Petition, my humble and hearty Petition is to the Fathers of the Church, the most Reverend the Archbishops, and the Right reverend the Bishops, and to the Sons of the Church, our Conforming Brethren, That they would manifest their love to Peace, by their condescensions and desires of Union, with their dissenting Brethren; and that there might be, by the means of the Governors of our Church, their Mediation with His Majesty and the Parliament, some such Laws made, as might for ever take away the differences 'twixt them and those that are for Moderation, that still hold themselves Members of the Church of England, though not admitted to be Teachers in it: And▪ Oh! that it were in their hearts, as many of them as hold Communion with the Reformed Churches beyond Seas, to offer such Bill or Bills to King and Parliament, as might enable the Bishops to receive all again into the Bosom of the Church, and to the Exercise of their Ministry, who besides taking the Oaths of Allegiance and Supremacy to his Majesty, can conform to what is necessary in other Reformed Churches.  
And my earnest desire to all Nonconformists is, That they love and follow the Truth and Peace; that they endeavour after Union and Coalition; however that they avoid Schism and Separation, truly so called: And especially that they keep far from that dividing Principle, To imagine a thing of itself indifferent, to be therefore unlawful, because commanded by a lawful Authority; and also from that grand Crime of the Donatists, that unchurched all besides themselves.  
My Protestation is this, That whereas the Author of the Debate hath offered us Nonconformists many and great Affronts, hath made so many hard and desperate Thrusts or Passes at us, and hard thereby forced us at last to Draw in our own Defence; That if he shall presently cause our Persons or Weapons to be arrested or seized therefore, He may never more be proclaimed for a Courageous Champion, nor the Nonconformists posted for base Cowards.  
If the High Sons of the Church have the Liberty and Privilege to throw Ink in out Faces; the Sons of Adam, the Sons of Peace, and his Majesty's good Subjects, may have we hope a Toleration or Connivance to wipe it off.  
These things premised; Since the Author of the Debate hath so vehemently charged us, and put in a First and a Second Indictment against us, for Irreligion, Disloyalty, Schism, Sacrilege, etc. We plead, NOT GUILTY; And put ourselves upon the Trial of our Country, which be You.   

The Contents.  

Page.  
EVery transgression of humane Law, not deadly, p. 3, 4.  
Nonconformists better treated in former times, p. 7, 8.  
Nonconformists not Schismatics or Sectaries, p. 10, 11, 12.  
Ordinations by Presbyters, formerly counted valid by 〈…〉, p. 12, 13, 14.  
The Assembly men cleared from countenancing Sacrilege, p. 15, 16.  
Non-conformists offer to clear themselves by Oath from Peevishness and Obstinacy. p. 17.  
Nonconformists not like Pharisees, p. 17.  
How Conformists and Nonconformists may be Reconciled, p. 18, 19  
What Reformation was desired formerly by the House of Commons, in the 30th Year of Queen Eliz. p. 21, 22.  
Nonconformists not so rigid towards Dissenters as is pretended, p. 22, 23.  
Nonconformists Obedient to His Majesty. Declared against the late horrid Murder of His late Majesty, p. 26, 27.  
Nonconformists do not deprive his Majesty Ecclesiastical Causes, p. 32; 117, 11  
Of Conformists and Non-conformists Charity p. 34, 35  
Presbyterians no Changelings, p. 37  
Nonconformists use the Lords Prayer, p. 39  
Why some scruple some old Words, as Altar, Priest etc. p. 41, 42  
Of keeping Holidays, p. 43, 44  
Of the Surplice, p. 46, 47, 48  
Conformists differ amongst themselves in many things, p. 49, 50  
Of praying that we may Preach in the evidence an● demonstration of the Spirit, p. 53, 54  
Of Praying by the Spirit, p. 55, 66.  
Of conceived Prayer, and Prayer ●●●●ok, p. 59  
Of Afternoon-Sermons, p. 62.  
Of Catechising, p. 64.  
Of divers modes of Preaching, p. 60, 69.  
Of Conventicles, p. 61.  
Of Experimental Preaching, p. 70, 71.  
Nonconformists Preach Obedience to Magistrates, p. 72, 73.  
And to the Moral Law, p. 75, 77, 78.  
Some Conformists Dissent from the Doctrine of the Church of England, p. 80, 81.  
Of Absolute Promises, p. 83.  
Of Good Works in the matter of Justification, p. 85.  
Of the difference 'twixt the Old and New Covenant, p. 86.  
Non-conformists not Time servers, p. 89.  
Of Holy Conference, p. 96.  
Of Stageplays, p. 97.  
Of Mr. T. W. p. 99, 10.  
Of Mr. W. B. p. 100  
A Declaration against Vennor and his Confederates, by the Congregational Ministers, p. 101.  
Non-conformists more tolerable than Papists and Quakers, p. 102, 103.  
The old Puritan peaceable, p. 106.  
Modern Non-conformists compared with those in Queen Eliz. her days, p. 111.  
Unity may be where there is not Uniformity, p. 126.  
Presbyterians no Separatists, p. 128.  
Presbyterians rather to be satisfied than Papists, p. 131, 132.  
The Divinity of Non-conformists not a Phrase-Divinity, p. 138.  
Of Ruling Elders, p. 141.  
Of the Use of Reason in Theologie, p. 143.  
Whether Arminians or Calvinists come nearest to the Doctrine of the Church of England, p. 144.  
Non-conformists not like the Donatists, p. 145.    

ERRATA.  
Page 6. line 10. for gage read gauge. p. 35. l. 18. f. Antiparistasis r. Antiperistasis. p. 36. l. 13. f. humours r. honours. p. 37. l. 17. f. Btailas r. Brayles. p. 42. l. 12. f. Christmss r. Christmas. p. 43. l. 14. f. leave r. leave. p. 50. l. 3. f. Rigidissimos r. Rigidissimo's. l. 12. r. if more, etc. p. 79. l. 24. f. mediatore r. mediatorem. p. 80. l. 29. f. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 r. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. p. 93. l. 23. f. aequilibro r. aeliquibrio. p. 117. l. 7. f. disquet r. disquiet. p. 119. l. 14. f. Academae r. Academiae. l. 19 f. ni sialiter, r. nisi aliter.   

An humble Apology for Nonconformists, with modest and serious Reflections on the Friendly Debate, and Continuation thereof, etc.  
Question.  
WHat Reason can be given, if there be no guilt in the Nonconformists, that no Answer was given to the Friendly Debate, for so long a time?  
Answ. Bishop Bramhal, that learned Prelate, may be their Advocate in this Case; (I hope the Sons of the Church will not disdain to hearken to a Father of the Church) Those who have composed minds, free from distracting cares, and Means to maintain them, and Friends to assist them, and their Books and Notes about them; do little imagine with what difficulty poor Exiles struggle, whose minds are more intent on what they should eat to morrow, than what they should write. Bishop Bramhal of Schism, pag. 275. Besides, if an Answer had stolen forth without Licence, would it not have been arrested for a seeming breach of a late Act about Printing; and the Author of it, according to the Divinity and Logic of the Friendly Debate, pag. 3. concluded to be neither a good Subject, nor a good Christian? (vide Deb. pag. 2. Edit. 4.)  
Quest. Whit Answer then can be made for printing this present Answer and Apology?  
Answ. The Intent and Design of Laws, is the Conservation of the Public Peace. The Law is Just, Uniform, and no Respecter of Persons, whether Conformists, or Non-Conformists, but binds all to the Peace and Good Behaviour alike, doth not hold one Man's Hands, whilst Another cuts his Throat, or stabs him under the fifth Rib. If a Man be once and again violently assaulted, he may lawfully defend himself. The Author of the Debate hath smitten us on the one Cheek, and on the other also; hath reviled us, and with his Pen persecuted us, and said all manner of evil against us falsely. In this case, a dead and stupid silence, might argue we were verily guilty concerning the Crimes laid against us. If a man that is Charged, Indicted, and Arraigned, refuseth to plead, the Law adjudgeth him to be pressed to death. Our blessed Saviour himself Apologized for himself and his Disciples. So did Justin Martyr and Tertullian, for the Primitive Christians. The great and soul Blots which have been cast upon our Names by that Author, would not soon out, if no means or endeavours should be used to wipe them off.  
Quest. But is every Transgression of a Humane Law, though but penal, so culpable of criminous as is pretended?  
Answ. I humbly conceive not. And there are thousands of good Subjects, and good Christians (many of them good Sons and Daughters of the Church of England) who did eat Flesh last Lent, or last Friday, ask no Question for Conscience-sake, in reference to any penal Law or Statute in that Case; and who have not scrupled to bury their Dead in Linen, though contrary to a late Act of Parliament. And if you lay so great a Burden upon every breach of a penal Statute, how shall the Carrier long keep his Cart on Wheels, or the Citizen long stand on his Legs for want of Trading, by reason of an Act of Parliament requiring the Tire of the Wheels to be four Inches wide, under the penalty of forty Shillings for each offence?  
Quest. Is it not therefore enough to satisfy the Law to pay the Mulct or Penalty required in such Cases? (Vide Contin. pag. 22.)  
Answ. Mr. Perkins, famous both at Home and Abroad, for his great Piety and Learning, hath amongst his Cases of Conscience, this Case: Whether Students in Colleges, and Members of Corporations, are tied to observance of their Local Statutes, under pain of Perjury? In resolving whereof, he hath something useful, and pertinent to our purpose: He saith, That Statutes are of two sorts, Principal and Fundamental, or less principal; the first sort, belonging to the Being of the Society, are necessary to be kept under pain of Perjury: As to the lest principal, namely, Statutes that are for Order and Decency, the Founder er Lawmaker exacts not Obedience simply, but either Obedience or the Penalty; because the Penalty is as much beneficial to the state of the Body, as the other, that is, as actual Obedience: And in this Case, he doth not charge the Breach of any Local Statute with the crime of Perjury. And Bishop Taylor, in his Rule of holy Living, Chap. 3. pag. 183. saith thus: As long as the Law is obligatory, so long our Obedience is due; and he that gins a contrary Custom without reason, sinneth: But he that breaks the Law when the Custom is entered and fixed, is excused; because 'tis supposed the Legislative Power consents, when by not punishing, it suffers Disobedience to grow up to a Custom. And I have formerly learned it for good Divinity, That every mere or bare Omission to do a thing required by Law, is not a sin, (extra casum scandali & contemptus) provided it be not done scandalously and contemptuously, or with offence to our weak Brother, and in contempt of the Magistrate.  
Quest. What's all this to the Case of the present Nonconformists? Do not they scandalously and contemptuously break the Laws, in dwelling in and neat London, and holding Religious Meetings, commonly called Conventicles? (Vide Debate, page 2.)  
Answ. Many of them have taken the Oxford Oath, and are legally qualified to live in Corporations. Others cannot possibly live in the Countries, for want of a Livelihood. I have heard of a Reverend Minister, that going abroad to seek maintenance from well-disposed Christians, being benighted, lost his Way and his Life both, being through cold starved to death. Others perhaps will plead they cannot live peaceably in the Country: I heard one, and a principal one, say, He never looked towards the City, nor ever should, if he had not been driven out of the Country. The Law of Nature teaches the Hart, the Hare, and all Creatures that are pursued, to fly to the nearest and thickest Covert, or hiding place. I have heard Huntsmen talk of giving the Hare Law; I do not well understand Forrest Law: but I believe this is not meant by it, That she shall have no mercy if she seeks to hid or to save herself by flight from those that pursue her. There are also some amongst the Nonconformists, that think themselves bound to preach the Gospel; and though they will not intrude into Churches, which are at the Magistrate's disposal, yet they look upon it as their Duty to preach in private Houses: And for that in London and other Cities, the multitude of those that desire to hear, are greater than in other places, and their Meetings here may be least taken notice of, therefore probably they repair to these places of concourse. And what Fowler had not rather shoot at a Flock, than at two or three single Birds? And what Fisherman would not choose father to cast his Net into the main Sea, than into a small Brook? The Quarrel of Fimbria against Scevola, was, That he would not receive the Weapon of Death far enough into his Body; and the same is the Quarrel that some of our Brethren have against us, That there being such sharp Laws made against us, we are not willing to present our naked Breasts to the point of them, and let our Brethren gauge us with their Weapons, but choose rather to fly from Country to City, and from City to City, to hid ourselves. Some there are, who can say they hold no Meetings contrary to Law. There are that hold some private Meetings, but first they and their Auditors go to Church, and hear Common-Prayer and Sermon there. Most of those that do otherwise may be supposed to be in and about London, where, by reason of the burning of above fourscore Parish Churches, the Churches that remain may not be capacious enough to receive or hold all the Inhabitants, and besides may possibly be at inconvenient distances from their present Habitations. If you say, That the Old Nonconformists, when they were silenced by the Bishops, forbore to preach, and justified their silence against the Brownists who accused them for it. To this may be replied, That the number of Ejected Ministers formerly, were not comparable to what i● is now; usually not one to one hundred, to wha● it is in our days. Besides, the People that are dissatisfied with the Liturgy or Ceremonies now, are ten, if not a hundred to one, to what they were formerly. What shall Ministers do in this Case? Our Saviour when he saw the multitudes, had compassion on them, because they were as Sheep Without a Shepherd. Had you rather that Quakers and Romish Seducers should gather up Multitudes; and that Taverns, Alehouses, and worse places, should on the Lord's day be filled with the number of those that absent themselves from the public Assemblies, rather than that they should be tolerated to hear a Sermon of Faith and Repentance, and other Duties towards God, and of Loyalty to the King, of Love and Charity one towards another, in a private house? For my own part, I confess in this Case, I would much rather go learn what that means, The Harvest truly is great, and the Labourers are few: pray ye therefore the Lord of the Harvest, that he would send forth Labourers into his Harvest. Again, it is to be considered, that Mr. Dod, Mr. Hildersham, and others, were silenced formerly but in some Dioceses, and for some time; afterwards they got divers times liberty to preach. Mr. Cotton had a Licence to preach, under the Broad Seal of England, procured by Bishop Williams, then Lord Keeper, notwithstanding his inconformity. Mr. Cartwright notwithstanding he had writ so much, and so sharply against Conformity, was suffered to preach, and enjoyed a place of Master of an Hospital at Warwick to his dying day. Yea, Mr. Brown, the Father of the Brownists, if we believe the Historian, was suffered to keep a Living, and that no mean one, (Achurch in Northamptonshire) to his Death. The Bishops in those days, if they turned Men out of their Pulpits, let them have a Livelihood; either some way from their Live, or else permitted them, or connived at least, at their teaching of School. My Schoolmaster at a Grammar-School, was one that had left a Living, rather man he would Conform. And 'tis storied of old Mr. John Fox, by Doctor Heplin, that though he refused to subscribe to any thing but the Greek Testament, yet he enjoyed his prebend's place in Salisbury till his dying day.  
'Tis worthy our notice, that these men's Yoke was more easy than ours: And that notwithstanding they are thought to be of different Principles from the present Nonconformists, yet certain it is, that they held it lawful to preach and pray, and keep days of Humiliation in private Houses. And I was told by one Mr. W. That he never had any other Ordination but Prayers and Imposition of hand● by old Mr. Dod, and some other Ministers his Friends, in a private House.  
Upon the consideration of the Premises, my heart's desire is, That the present Age may labour to imitate and surpass the Age past; the Right Reverend the Bishops, their Predecessors, in their Forbearance and Moderation; and the Nonconformists theirs, in their Meekness and Peaceableness: That the Bishops would endeavour to be Reconcilers, and Repairers of out Breaches, and Restorers of our Pulpits to preach in; and that the Nonconformists would desire nothing but what may become Sons of Peace, and such as earnestly long after Unity, and had much rather, as becomes Labourers, be admitted to work in the Vineyard, than to stand any longer idle in the Marketplace: Or, as becomes Fishers of Men, to be casting their Nets on the right side of the Ship, than to sit any longer mending their Nets on the Shore. That so the Ages to come, when they shall read the History of this Generation, when we all (Conformists and Nonconformists) are laid down to rest quietly together in our Graves, may have no occasion to rise up and say, That whereas the late War had made its thousands of Separatists, Rigid Conformity had made its ten thousands; And all this too, during the peaceable Reign of our most Gracious Sovereign, (a Son of Peace) CHARLES the Clement; as he hath manifested himself, by his Royal Letters and Declaration from Breda, his Royal Declarations since, and his present Princely Clemency: And this too, notwithstanding great Animosities, Exasperations, and Irritations of some, on the one hand, out of an inordinate Zeal; and many Weaknesses, Follies, and Provocations of some on the other, for lack of Knowledge.  
Quest. Are not the Non-conforming-Ministers, who hold Private Meetings, Schismatics, and Sectaries, and Breakers of the Peace and Unity of the Church? Vide Deb. p. 211.  
Answ.. 'Tis a sign of exasperation (saith my Lord Bacon, upon the like difference) to condemn the contrary part as a Sect; yea, and some indiscreet persons have been bold in open preaching, to use dishonourable and derogative speech and censure of the Churches abroad; and that so far, at that some of our Men (as I have heard) ordained in foreign Parts, have been pronounced to be no lawful Ministers So he. And further, Let's remember (saith the same judicious Author) that the ancient and true Bonds of Unity, are, One Faith, one Baptism; and not, One Ceremony, one Policy: And endeavour to comprehend that saying, Differentia Rituum commendat unitatem Doctrinae; Christ's Coat was indeed without Seam, yet the Church's Garment was of divers Colours. The Presbyterian and Congregational Nonconformists do profess to agree in the main Doctrine with the Church of England, contained in her Articles of Religion, so as fully to embrace, and constantly to adhere unto what is purely Doctrinal in them. Besides, the Presbyterians do not separate from the Church, so as to set up Church against Church, Altar against Altar; but being thrust out of the Church themselves, and the number of men and women dissatisfied about either some passages or Ceremonies in the Lyturgy, so that they dare not receive the Sacrament in the way required in the public Assemblies, being very great; they take occasion to meet for Religious Exercises in private, for a time only, till a door be opened for them in the Church, by the removal of some supsosed or real Corruptions in the public Worship. And the reason why some (whilst they continue in the City) do not frequent the Public Assemblies, may be this; Because they are here by connivance only, and dare not be seen openly to outface a Law: But when they are in the Country, they join with the Congregation where they reside protempore, to show their Union with the Church, and Conformity to the Laws. Nor are they therefore to be judged Schismatics, because they still hold internal Communion with all Christians, and so with the Church of England, with whom in some things they conceive they cannot communicate externally. And there is not (saith a Learned Bishop) so great Conformity to be expected in Ceremonies, as in the Essentials of Sacraments. The Separation of the N.C. from the Ch. of Engl. is not total, nor perpetual; and a man may remove from his Father's House, it being infected, with a purpose to come thither when all is clear and well again. And their desire and prayer is still, That they that went forth of their Churches weeping (yet bearing good Seed, viz. the Doctrine of Faith, Repentance, and Obedience to God, and his Vicegerent) may come again rejoicing, bringing their Sheaves (that is, their Congregations) with them.  
Quest. But is not this partial and occasional withdrawing of some Nonconforming Ministers and people, from the public Legal Assemblies, justly charged with Schism?  
Answ. Hear what a Romish Doctor saith, which is cited by Bishop Bramhal, in his Treatise of Schism, pag. 7, 8. When there is a mutual division of two parts or Members of the Mystical Body of the Church, one from the other, yet both retaining Communion with the Universal Church, (which for the most part springs from some doubtful Opinion, or less necessary part of Divine Worship) quam cunque partem amplexus fueris Schismaticus non audies, quip quod Universa Ecclesia neutiam damnarit; what side soever you take, you are not a Schismatic, etc.  
Quest. Sith that divers of the Nonconforming Ministers had no Ordination but by thei● Brethren the Presbyters, Can they be esteemed lawful Ministers? Is such Ordination valid, without Re-Ordination by the Bishops?  
Answ. Ordination by Presbyters without Bishops, was adjudged valid by our former Bishops; witness the Case of three Scottish Bishops, consecrated in England in King James his days: Take the History of it from Archbishop Spots●ood, who relateth the matter and manner of it ●hus: A Question, saith he, was moved by Doctor Andrews, Bishop of Ely, touching the Consecration ●f the Scottish Bishops, who as he said, must first be ordained Presbyters, at having received no Ordination by a Bishop; the Archbishop of Canterbury, Doctor Bancroft, who was by, said, That thereof ●here was no necessity; seeing where Bishops could not ●e had, the Ordination of or by Presbyters, must be esteemed lawful: This applauded to by the other Bishops, Ely acquiesced; and at the day and place appointed, the three Bishops were consecrated. A. Spots. Hist. Book 7. p. 514. Dr. Field in his Book of the Church, holds the Ministers lawful Ministers in the Transmarine Churches, though ordained without Bishops; and Dr. Thorndike, in his Treatise relating to the Primitive Government of Churches, hath so much charity as not to unchurch the Reformed Churches beyond the Seas, who have no Bishops, pag. 202. The pious, learned, and famous Mr. Gataker, never had any Episcopal Ordination, but was ordained by Dr. Stern, Suffragan of Colchester. The Religious and Renowned Archbishop Usher, in his Reduction set forth by Dean Barnard, was of the Judgement, that the Chor-Episcopi, or Rural Deans, might lawfully Ordain: And this his Judgement was attested by Doctor Holsworth, yea and very probably too, by Bishop Brownrig, and others of the Sub-Committee for Ecclesiastical Affairs, in the beginning of the Long Parliament. The Attestation is as followeth: We are of the Judgement that the form of Government here proposed, is not in any point repugnant to the Scripture, and that the Suffragans mentioned in the second Proposition, may lawfully use both the power of Jurisdiction and Ordination, according to the Word of God, and the Practice of the Ancient Church.  
Quest. But what great matter is it what the Modern Bishops or Doctors do or say in this Affair? Is it not sufficiently known that Aerius is reputed an Heretic for this Tenet, viz. For denying a superiority of Bishops above Presbyters? And was not Ordination by Presbyters condemned by a Council of the Ancient Church?  
Answ. Aerius is counted an Heretic for other Opinions also, by Epiphanius, for which our Brethren that Conform will acquit him of Heresy. And the Reverend, Learned, and Laborious Dr. Stillingfleet hath given several Reasons why those Ordinations might be lawfully made void by the Council, in case they had been performed by a Bishop; as because in another Bishop's Diocese, because sine Titulo, etc.  
Quest. If the Presbyterians can be freed from Schism, yet what can be said to clear them from the sin of Sacrilege, either as Principals or Accessories? Did not the Assembly put out Annotations on the Bible in those times, and for fear of displeasing their Masters, never meddle with condemning of Sacrilege?  
Answ. I answer: The Notes commonly called the Assemblies Notes, came out before the Assembly was convened, and was none of their Act: And this is taken notice of, by some very considerable Persons in their Preface to the Reader before the Morning-Exercises, printed 1659. ●n these words: We have (not without some regret) observed that the Large English Annotations, in ●hich but some few only of the late Assembly, together with some others, had an hand, are generally scribed unto the whole Assembly, and usually carry ●●e Name of the Assemblies Annotations, as if done ●y the joint Advice of that Grave and Learned Con●ention. Yet further, as to the places mentioned in the Debate, they were commented upon by ●e persons here mentioned: That of Rom. 2.22. ●y Dr. Featly, an Episcopal Doctor, and a Reverend man, a great Sufferer for his Majesty in the ●te times: That of Ezek. by Dr. Richardson, Bishop of Ardagh in Ireland, a person of great Learning and worth; and that in Genesis by Mr. Leigh, ●ho was Subdean of Chester. As for the Assembly, when they sat and acted as an Assembly, ●●en in those days, they did dare to condemn ●●mony and Sacrilege both, as Sins against the se●ond Commandment; as you may read in the ●●rger Catechism; and they cite those two Scriptures for the proof thereof, Romans 2.22. Malachy 3.8.  
And as these were their Principles against the Alienation of Church-Means, so they made it their business to preserve the Lands and Revenues of the Church from Spoil and Rapine The Bishop's Temporalties were engaged fo● great Sums of Money before ever the Assembly met, and I never heard that the Parliament advised with the Assembly about the sale of them. Yet this is certain, that the Tithes belonging to the Bishops were kept unsold, and reserved fo● the Church's use; and all the Dean and Chapters Lands left untouched, even by that Parliament, which (if over any) Was the Presbyterian Parliament, until their Members were seized on, secluded, imprisoned, and driven away b● the Army. They were not Friends to the Hierarchy, if we believe Dr. Heylin in his Cyp. Ang● who designed the buying in of all Impropriations; and if we credit Dr. Fuller, in fifty year they would have bought them all in. And in after times, when great Attempts were made t● sell the Tithes and Glebe Lands, it was withstood zealously and effectually, for it was prevented, under God, chief by the means of the Presbyterians, and their Friends in the City and Country. To conclude, will you have Mr. Kno● the Foreman of the Presbyterians, his Judgement about Sacrilege: For John Knox, (as sait● Archbishop Spotswood) 'tis clear by his Sermons and Writings still extant, that he held it a point of high Sacrilege to rob and spoil the Church of Tithes.  
Quest. Is it not very pride, self-conceitedness, humour, peevishness, yea, and very obstinacy, that occasions their Nonconformity?  
Answ. Some of the Nonconformists of old, and of late, have offered to purge themselves by Oath from so great Crimes in the Case. And others have in the Pulpit in their Farewell Sermons protested the contrary, and that it was meet Conscience of Duty, and fear of Sin, which caused their Inconformity.  
Quest. Are the Nonconformists justly compared to the Pharises? (See Cont. p. 138.)  
Answ. No: The Pharisees in our Saviour's time were great Zealots and Sticklers for the Ceremonies of the Jewish Religion, and particularly for men's Traditions and Humane Inventions; were high Conformists themselves, men in Power and Place in the Church, and great Haters and Persecutors of the Nonconformists of their times.  
Quest. Can any man that is not either very simple, or very scrupulous, question any thing in the public Worship, in the Liturgy, or Ceremonies? Is not the Liturgy so perfect, that nothing can be added to it, or taken from it?  
Answ. It was not always so. Time was, and that but in the year 1644. when learned Mr. Chillingworth preaching before King Charles the First at Reading, used these words: At what time, soever a Sinner doth repent him of his Sins from the bottom of his heart, I will put all his wickedness out of my remembrance, saith the Lord: saith thus: The plain truth (if you will hear it) is, The Lord hath not said so; these are not the very words of God, but the paraphrase of men; and (by reason of the mistake to which it is subject) I fear very often a pernicious paraphrase. The Right Reverend the Bishops have done very well to remove this stumbling block at the beginning of the Liturgy; O that they would go on to remove out of the way every thing that offends! That the Lessons out of the Apocrypha-Books might be either exchanged altogether for the Canonical Scripture, or at least reduced to that small number that was appointed in the late Scottish Liturgy, where were appointed only two Chapters out of the Apocrypha, one out of Ecclesiasticus, the other out of the Book of Wisdom. That the new Translation of the Psalms might be read, as well as of the Epistles and Gospels: That the three Ceremonies, the Cross in Baptism, the Surplice, and Kneeling at the Sacrament, whether nocent or innocent, night be removed out of this, as out of divers other Reformed Churches, by means of the Bishop's Mediation with his Majesty and the Parliament, on that behalf, as was thought advisable by the Sub-Committee for Religion, whereof the Bishop of Lincoln had the Chair, and Bishop Brownrig, Dr. Holsworth, Bishop Hacket, etc. were Members: Or at least, that the use of them might be free, according to his Majesty's gracious Declaration about Ecclesiastical Affairs. I wish that of my Lord Verulam might be always sounding in the Ears of the Fathers, and the Sons and Daughters of the Church, till they give ear to it, That a contentious retaining of Custom, is a turbulent thing, as ●ell as Innovation. Methinks 'tis as possible for Nonconformists and Conformists to be reconciled, ●s for the Church of England to be reconciled with Rome; and yet that great learned Bishop Bramhal thought that not altogether impossible: supposing (saith he) that something from whence. Offences either given or taken, which (whether right 〈◊〉 wrong) do not weigh half so much as the Unity of Christians, were put out of Divine Offices, which ●ould not be refused, if animosities were taken away. Bramh. of Sch. p. 280. To this, let me add that Golden Saying of Mr. Hales, in his little piece ●f Schism: Prayer, Confession, Thanksgiving, Reading of Scripture, Administration of Sacraments 〈◊〉 the plainest and simplest manner, were matter ●ough to furnish out a Liturgy; though nothing ei●her of private Opinion, or of Church Pomp, of garments, or prescribed Gestures, of Imagery, or Music, of matter concerning the Dead, of many superfluities which creep into the Church under the name of Order and Decency, did interpose itself.  
Quest. Is there any thing that can reasonably or modestly be desired to be amended or bettered in the managery of the Ecclesiastical Government or Discipline?  
Answ. The Rubric before the Commination in the Liturgy, supposes it desirable, that the Primitive Discipline used in the beginning of Lent, might be restored; when notorious Sinners were put to open penance. Is nothing amiss? (saith my Lord Bacon) Can any man defend the use of Excommunication as a bare process to lackey up and down for Duties and for Fees; it being the greatest Judgement next unto the General at the la●● day? Lord Bacon his Discourse about Church-Affairs, p. 32. And might we not say, That it seems liable to exception, that Chancellors, and Commissaries, and Officials, persons not in holy Orders, should have power of Excommunication? I have read indeed that the French King hath the power of Excommunication; but it may be considered that a Christian King is mixt●● Persona, & custos utriusque Tabulae, and is o● Right, supreme Governor over all persons, a● well Ecclesiastical as Civil. Besides, it were 〈◊〉 be wished in reason by the Bishops themselves, that the Bishops might not be controlled by thei● Chancellors, and their Sentence and Order, o● Judgement one day in Court, be reversed or made insignificant by a contrary Order or Judgement of the Chancellor, the next.  
Quest. But what's the reason that now adays their is such Alteration and Innovation in Worship and Discipline desired and laboured for?  
Answ. Divers things have along time, even all along more or less, been complained of, as grievous; and the Removal of them have been requested from our Kings and Parliaments almost ever since the Reformation. Some of the Bishops, and other men in great place, have felt the burden of some things required of them; Bishop Hooper would willingly have been dispensed withal, as to some of the Episcopal Habits. Dr. Samson, Dean of Christ-Church in Oxford, was turned out of his place for Inconformity. Peter Martyr professor, and a Canon of Christ-Church, could yet never be persuaded to put on a Surplice all the time be was in Oxford. The Commons in Parliament, in the thirtieth year of Queen Elizabeth, presented a Petition to the Lords Spiritual and Temporal, for the Redress of sixteen Grievances: The six first, saith the Historrian, were against insufficient Ministers: The seventh, That no Oath or Subscription might be tendered to any at the entrance into Ministry, but such as is expressly prescribed by the Statutes of this Realm, except the Oath against corrupt Entering. The eighth, That they may not be troubled for the omission of some Rites or Portions prescribed in the Book of Common-Prayer. The ninth, That they may not be called and urged to answer before the Officials and Commissaries, but before the Bishops themselves. The tenth, That such as had been suspended or deprived for no other offence, but only for not 
☞  subscribnig, might be restored; and that the Bishops would forbear their Excommunication ex Officio mero, of Godly and Learned Preachers, not detected for open offence of Life, or apparent Error in Doctrine. The thirteenth, That the high Censure of Excommunication may not be denounced or executed for small matters, nor by Chancellors, Commissaries, or Officials, but by the Bishops themselves, with the assistance of some grave Persons. Di. Full. Ch. Hist.  
Quest. How can the Nonconformists reasonably expect any alterations and condescensions now for their sakes? Did not they deny a toleration to the Episcopal Clergy but lately? And did not the Elder Brother, Presbytery, deny to bear with the Younger, Independency? And were they not very severe and strict in punishing all Dissenters from their way? See Cont. p. 124, 125.  
Answ. The Nonconformists of the Congregational way were then, and still are for Liberty of Conscience; and the Presbyterians humbly move for the like Favour and Liberty which others had in those days, different as to Government from them in the like Circumstances. They forbore the imposing of unnecessary things, or such things as were doubtful, in and about the service of God, as terms and conditions of Communion with them. Besides, they suffered many of the Episcopal persuasion without ever taking the Covenant to enjoy places in Churches, Colleges, and Schools. And 'tis notoriously known, That Dr. Wild, afterward Bishop Wild, Dr. Gunning, and others, had numerous Meetings for Common Prayer and Preaching, at London; and Dr. Hyde, Dr. Fell, and others, at Oxford, in those days. As to the five poor men (as the Author calls the Apologists) they had liberty to preach, and enjoyed the fattest and richest public Lectures in London. Give me leave to add too, that the Parliament by their Ordinance allowed the Bishops 200 l. per annum for their Lives; and I find in the Life of Bishop Morton, that he had an Order to have 1000 l. out of the Treasury at Goldsmiths-Hall, with which he paid his Debts, and purchased to himself an Annuity of 200 l. per annum during his Life. And a fifth part of Live, where the Minister was ejected, for maintenance of Wife and Children: And scarce any man in those days, that was able, sober, and peaceable, but might, if he had pleased, have Employment and a Livelihood. The Parliament made no Act for Banishment of them from Corporations, forbade them not to teach Schools, or entertain Boarders in their Houses, imposed no Oath on Women that taught School, to capacitate them for that Calling, or else left them lialbe to punishment for so doing. And although they made two Ordinances against the use of the Common Prayer, I never knew one that suffered the penalty of them.  
Quest. Were there no Ceremonies imposed by the Presbyterians in any part of the Worship of God? Did they not require men to be bareheaded at the reading of the Covenant, and that they should all take it lifting up their right hand to heaven? Are not these Ceremonies? And is not an Oath a special part of Divine Worship? (See Debate, p. 166. Ed. 4.)  
Answ. An Oath being an immediate and solemn Appeal to God, and having something of Invocation, of the Divine Majesty in it, doth therefore require some Gesture or Postute, that is naturally expressive of Reverence, at the taking of it. Besides, the lifting up the right hand to Heaven, 
Rev. 10.5, 6.  was that, which the Angel did, when he sware-Bring as good reason, and as good a precedent fox all the Ceremonies imposed in the Liturgy, and they will be more easily conformed unto.  
Quest. Are not the Nonconformists disobedient to Governors, no Friends to Caesar, Unpeaceable, Refractory? Hath not this been their practice always, and do pot they teach men so?  
Answ. His most Excellent Majesty had knowledge of divers of that way, who were commissioned by him for the Review and Alteration of the Liturgy; and his Majesty is pleased to give them a better Character in his Gracious Declaration about Ecclesiastical Affairs. His Royal Expressions are these: We must for the honour of all those of either Persuasion, with whom We have conferred. Declare, That their Professions and Desires of true Piety and Godliness, are the same; their professions of Zeal for the Peace of the Church, the same; of Affection and Duty to Us, the same: They all approve Episcopacy, they all approve a set Form of Liturgy, and they disprove and dislike the Sin of Sacrilege and Alienation of the Revenues of the Church. And now his Majesty hath so far testified for them their, good Behaviour; Hear them speak for themselves, and that when they were in Council too. " 'tis the Duty of People to pray for Magistrates, to honour their Persons, to pay them Tribute and other Deuce, to obey their lawful Commands, to be subject to their Authority for Conscience-sake. This they teach as Doctors in Synod in their Confession of Faith, and this they would have other Teachers teach all others in their Larger Catechise, and in part by their own example, in the Directory for public Worship. And as for their practice, I say, greater Loyalty than this hath no man, than that a man lay down his life for his Sovereign; and yet such were some of them; (as Mr. Love and Mr. Gibbons.) Some of them also had trial of cruel Mocking for their Loyalty; some of them of Bonds and Imprisonments, of Sequestration and Banishments. There are to be found among the present Nonconformists, who solicited Heaven and Earth with their Prayers and Tears, for the saving of the Life of his late Majesty of Blessed Memory. And whereas there were threescore and three unjust Judges that condemned his Majesty, there were just as many Minister, all except two, accounted Presbyterians, who appeared with the hazard of their Live and Liberties, (if no also of their Lives) with Scripture-Reasons, and most earnest Entreaties, to dissuade men from and to declare against, so horrid a wickedness Which very thing was the occasion that afterward some of them were driven from their Houses others imprisoned, sequestered, an● threatened to be hanged. 
Mr. H. Dr. W. Mr. A.  That these persons were real, cordial, and conscientious too, (and that of th● Oaths they had taken to his Majesty) you may in charity judge, if you take a taste of one of those Papers to the General, and the General Council of War, Presented and Printed during his Majesty's Trial. In it they declare against all Proceed against his Majesty's Crown and Life upon grounds of Conscience and Prudence: Which when they had laid down, etc. they conclude saying, It was the Conscience of the many Oaths 〈◊〉 God its which you, we, and the generality of the Kingdom indispensibly stand bound before God, Angels, and Men; which made them thus to declare themselves. That we desire to wash our hands, as from the Blood of all men, so especially of our Dread Sovereign; and to approve ourselves innocent of all that blood and misery, the Deposing and taking away his Majesty's Life, will in our apprehension involve us, our Posterity, and all men professing Godliness in the three Kingdoms. We do therefore from our Soul beseech and importune you and every one of you, as Men, Gentlemen, and Christian Soldiers, by all that can be dear to good men, as you desire to render a good account of your actions at the great day, to the righteous Judge of Heaven and Earth, That you will forbear doing aught in the Premises, which may wound the Conscience, or pierce the Hearts of any of God's People, (who are all alike with you, or any of you, precious to him as the Apple of his Eye) which may rend and tear the Bowels of this your and our native Countries; and occasion the common Enemy to blaspheme the Majesty, Truth, and Cause of our God: And further to contribute the utmost skill, study, and endeavours of you, and every of you in your proper places (and the great Counsellor and mighty GOD direct you all) to remove ours and the Kingdoms fears, to remedy the present abounding Distempers, and present and universal Destruction: That we and the Generations to come, may rise up and call you Blessed; and so eminent a preservation of the Kingdom in such an extremity, may be had in everlasting Remembrance.  
And as for their Loyalty to our most Gracious Sovereign that now is, (and long, and long may God continue Him, and bless Him with all the Blessings of Heaven and Earth, both in his Person and Government!) the Presbyterians have given good Proof thereof: Mr. Cawten prayed for his Majesty, with his Royal Titles, in public; and for his so doing, was accused and arraigned of High-Treason. Others of them in private Houses prayed for him, would not own the Government that then usurped over us, nor keep their Days of Thanksgiving for the Victory at Dunbar or Worcester, nor publish their Declarations against his Majesty or Sir George Booth, and those that endeavoured his Restauration; yea, there are to be found amongst the present Nonconforming-Ministers, who had like to have been hanged for engaging with Sir George Booth, and hardly escaped with their Lives then, who have since lost their Live: Yea, so zealous were the Presbyterian Ministers for his Majesty's Restauration, that the chief Quarrel in reason of the high Hierarchists against them, should have been no other than that of the men of Israel against the men of Judah, Because they were the first in bringing the King back.  
Quest. Can any man believe that the High Conformists were not the great Doers and Sufferers both, for his Majesty, and that merely out of Principles of Conscience?  
Answ. I acknowledge there were divers amongst the Bishops and the Conforming-Clergy, that did both do and suffer really out of principles of Conscience; yet that their own Interest had some considerable influence into the Loyalty of many of them, may be suspected; for that they seem to express more and greater Zeal against the Presbyterians, who yet endeavoured to save the King's Life, than against the Regicides themselves that put him to death; and more frequently and more fiercely every where charge, arraign, and condemn the Covenant, than the Engagement; as if they judged it was a more unpardonable crime to endeavour to extirpate Prelacy, than actually to take away King and House of Lords, more heinous to divest a Prelate of his Pontificalibus, than to cut off the Head of the Lords Anointed. This may possibly occasion many sober persons to query, If the Tables had been turned, and that his Majesty bade been for the extirpation of Prelacy, and the removal of Liturgy and Ceremonies, and the Parliament for the continuance and upholding of them, whether many that were very hot, would not have been lukewarm, if not key-cold in his Majesty's cause? I conclude the Answer to this Question, when I have laid down this great Truth; That the Mitre is more beholden to the Crown, than the Crown to the Mitre; and that it wit his Majesty that restored the Bishops, and not the Bishops which restored his Majesty.  
Quest. Is not this then a true Maxim in Policy, That Monarchy is greatly supported by Prelacy; and that the greatest Hectors for Uniformity serve his Majesty's Interest and Government most and best?  
Ans. The Lord Falkland (either then or a while after Secretary of State) said in Parliament of some stirring and leading Prelates before the War, as followeth; A little search will find them to have been the destruction of Unity under pretence of Uniformity: to have brought in Superstition and Scandal, under titles of Reverence and Decency, &c: In which they have abused his Majesty as well as his People. Heyl Cyp. Ang. p. 408.  
Quest. But if it be granted that the Presbyterians have any Loyalty to his Majesty, have they also any love to the peace of the Church, and to Dissenters from their Government? Do they not implacably hate the Episcopal Clergy, and stand irreconciliable to all Uniformity and Liturgy?  
Answ. In the Presbyterians Address to his Majesty they assert the lawfulness of Episcopacy, and of a Liturgy. The mention of the names of many Bishops both in the beginning of Reformation, and of later times, are precious to them, like an Ointment poured forth; the memory of them is and shall be in Benedictione: And there have been never any so bad since, as to make so●er persons to condemn all. There are still of the Hierarchy men of that piety, learning, temperance, meekness and moderation, that we despair not (if some Boutefeau's and Incendiaries would cease blowing the coals) might be the happy Instruments to quench the Fire, and be like the good Shepherds, who bring home their Sheep when gone astray, in their very bosoms, and with their Benedictions. There are also amongst Dissenters many sons of peace, who love not to fish in troubled waters, or to blow the coals; great friends to Unity, Peace and Order, and no enemies to Bishops; who either keep no Private-Meetings, or therein dissuade not the people from frequenting the Public-assemblies, or hearing their Ministers or Liturgy.  
Quest. Have not they that took the Covenant abjured all Episcopacy?  
Answ. It was declared in the Assembly before the Covenant was taken, that the Covenant did not bind against a Primitive-Episcopacy; and at the time of taking the Covenant) this was frequently declared in private conference, and some did it from the Press and Pulpit. However, the Covenant obliges men, to act only in their places and callings and so far as lawfully they may; it doth not 〈◊〉 men to be seditious in the State, or schismatical in the Church, t● bring about any alteration or reformation of Government: We are far from thinking (say the Presbyterians in their Paper of Proposals to his Majesty, speaking of the Covenant) that it obligeth us to any evil, or to go beyond, our places and callings to do good, much less to resist Authority, t● which it doth oblige us, (p. 13.) We ought not to use violent, tumultuous, seditious, or any unlawful mean to bring about a Reformation. Notwithstanding the Covenant, we acknowledge it belongs to his Majesty with the advice of the Parliament, to settle and regulate the Church. Government. And it may be remembered, that Presbyterian Parliament voted his Majesty's Concessions a ground of Peace, although he never consented to the extirpation o● Episcopal-Government.  
Quest. Were the Presbyterians bound by the Covenant to divest his Majesty of his supremacy in Ecclesiastical Affairs? See Debate, pag. 168 4. Ed.  
Answ. An Oath for confirmation ought to be an end of all strife. They have since generally taken the Oaths of Supremacy and Allegiance not above six (that I hear of) refused it in all Scotland. And on the other side, 'tis not unknown to some, that a very learned and great Clerk, a Dignitary of this Church, of no small note, was hardly persuaded to take down this bitter Pill (according to his gust) though it was double gilt with a Prebend of 200 l. per annum. His Majesty's Commissioner presides to the General Assembly of the Church of Scotland. They willingly and hearty give unto the King's Majesty the chief Government of all Estates of this Realm, whether they be Ecclesiastical or Civil. The Covenant binding men to reform according to the Word of God, could not reasonably or charitably be construed ro take away that Prerogative which we see to have been given always to godly Princes in holy Scriptures, by God himself: i. e: That they should rule all Estates and Degrees committed to their charge by God, whether they be Ecclesiastical or Temporal, and restrain with the Civil Sword the stubborn and evil Doers. Yea, they are so far from wasting or clipping this his Majesty's Royal Prerogative that they would not be offended; if the Statute of King Edward the Sixth, was again revived, whereby all Citations in the Courts Spiritual, should issue out in the King's Name, and be sealed with his Seal. And if it should once please his Majesty, it would not displease them (no, though they themselves were admitted into the Church) to have a Vicar General in Spiritualibus.  
Quest. Are the high Sons of the Church advanced so many degrees as is pretended above the poor Nonconformists in their Charity? See Debate, p. 20. Ed. 1.  
Answ. There is just cause to fear that amongst them, some there are, who have a greater Charity for the Church of Rome, than for the Presbyterians; that is, for them that differ from the Church of England in Substantials, in Doctrine, Worship, Discipline, and Government; that for them who differ from them only or chief in Circumstantials, in lesser and lighter matters, not of the Foundation of Religion, but belonging only to the Superstructure; or if you please, at best to the adorning of it. For my own part (and for all the Nonconforming-Ministers) I may say, for aught I know, That we would sooner give the Right Hand of Fellowship to the highest and most rigid Father or Son of the Church of England, than join hands with Rome. That some of our Brethren of the other side have not a heart so enlarged with Charity to all men, and particularly to Dissenters, as is pretended and boasted, may be evinced by the Treatise under consideration; which may seem to be designed to render their Brethren, and Ministers of the Gospel too, ridiculous, if not odious. I heard no mean man say, That the design was, To put the Beasts Skin upon us, and then to cry, Ha-loo! Ha-loo! I must needs confess, it appears to me at least very uncivil, if not uncharitable also, to go about to pluck off the Healing and Sovereign Plaster, which his Majesty's Royal Hands, with the Advice of his Parliament (a whole College of Physicians) in the Act of Indemnity had laid on the bleeding Wounds which the late War had made amongst us. I might add also, that there are some passages so full of Lightness and Drollery, that they might better become some Ecclesiastical Hudibras; or a Ben-Johnson, a Doctor of the Stage, than a Rabbi, or a grave Doctor of the Church.  
Quest. Are men of the high Prelacy, or high and rigid Sons of the Church, men of the highest form in Religion, and of a more perfect, serious and solid Godliness, than the poor silly scrupulous Nonconforming-Turn-ours? (See Debate, p. 155.)  
Answ.. 'Tis very strange if Preferment, if great places of Power and Profit should indeed make men more truly and seriously godly, and particularly should by an Antiparistasis produce the great work of Self-denial, Mortification, etc. We will not at present compare Godliness; but this I think, That 'tis no demonstration of a higher degree of Godliness to jeer at Godliness, though in a Dissenter, and accompanied with some Weaknesses and imperfections, to make the door to the Theatre and Stage so wide, and to the Church and Pulpit so straight and narrow: Certainly the true right perfect godly man, is neither your Nonconformist godly man, nor Conformist as described in the Debate; but made up of both put together: whose Character we have in a great measure in the 165th page of the Treatise, in my opinion the best page in the Book: Where the Power of Godliness is set forth after this manner:  
A truly godly man, (who hath not only a name to live, &c is dead; who is a Jew not only outwardly in the flesh, but inwardly in the Spirit; who hath not only the Form, but the Power of Godliness in him) is such a one as denies himself for God and his neighbour; that sets not his heart upon getting Riches, and is humble and modest; that reverencet● his Governors, and studies in word and deed to preserve their Authority; that humours his Parent though not of their Opinion, or perhaps ungodly that is sensible of Benefits, and grateful to Bend factors; that studies Purity and Chastity; that 〈◊〉 kind and tenderly affected to his Relations; th● keeps his Faith, and performs his Promises, though to his own damage; that is easily reconciled, if 〈◊〉 have been grossly injured; that speaks well (if he can) of his Neighbour, and is not ready to believe ever Story of them; that endeavours to preserve an ev●● temper; that commands his Passions; that is stea● and uniform in his Actions; that is meek, and su●● missive, peaceable and humble; that loves Vert● whore-ever he sees it, and doth not despise or reproad it under the name of mere Morality; that is faithful to his trust, sober, advised, and considerate in his undertake; that hath no opinion of himself, at love's God above all things; that chooseth rathert keep at home, and mind his own Concernments, than to be prying into the secrets of his Neighbour's house; that has no other design upon any, either man or waman, than to make them good, and further their increase in true Wisdom.  
Quest. Are not the Presbyterians, Changelings, men of very limber Consciences, who instead of being called Turn-outs, may better be called Turncoats? See Cont. p. 29.  
Answ. One would think in reason, that those that are charged to be so rigid, scrupulous, superstitious, tenacious of their own Opinions, obstinate in their own way, should not easily turn with every wind. Amongst the Ministers, 'tis true, there have been Willows, as well as Oaks; amongst our Parsons, we have had some Vicars of Brailas, who have turned in their Pulpits as well as the Weathercock on their Steeples. Some Ministers indeed would not turn, and for that treason are turned out. Confident I am, that the greatest number of them that were Sufferers for refusing the Engagement, and non-comply●●nce in the late times, were of those that, are or have been Sufferers since for Nonconformity.  
Quest. Are not the Nonconformists men of narrow Souls, and of a narrow Charity, confined to a Party, within a few private Walls or Conventicles; whereas the high Sons of the Church their Charity is as large as their Churches, even as their CATHEDRALS  
Answ. Sure I am their Charity is not so large as St. Paul's, Rom. 14. There was before th● Wars a Lady (as I have heard from Persons 〈◊〉 Quality) not very many years since, wrote t● the Bishop of Lincoln, on the behalf of a Nonconformist that was in trouble for some small Omission or Inconformity: To whom the Bishop replied, If the Person your Ladyship wrote for, had been a Drunkard or a Whoremonger, I could have showed him favour; but in this case, no● at all. It is marvellous to think, but so it is, that Church-Charity should not be so large as Civil. The Members of the Long Parliament, who too● the Covenant, and imposed it upon others, sit quietly in This, without having that imposed on them, the refusal whereof, might occasion their Ejectment out of the House. The Nobles and others about the Court, that were divided in the the late Wars, are sodered again, love one another, and (which is a good and pleasant thing) dwell together in Unity. The Lawyers in the Inns 〈◊〉 Court, unite, cement, and plead together; do not, for the old Quarrel, turn one another over the Bar, or out of Doors. The Knights and Gentlemen in the Country, that fought on seyerul sides, are reconciled, and act together as one man for the good of his Majesty and his Kingdom, notwithstanding what passed in the late differences. Only the Ministers and Ambassadors of the Gospel of Peace, who say and do not, will as yet have no peace, clapping their Wings to stir and beat up their Metal, and crowing to sound an Alarm to a Paper Combat. This is a Lamentation, and aught to be for a Lamentation. Pudet hoc opprobria nobis, etc.  
Quest. It the Nonconformists are so charitable, so willing to forgive what is past, and to receive Dissenters into their own Bosoms, or to come themselves into the Bosom of their Mother again, (though she may possibly be charged to have thrust them out of doors, because they have narrow Throats, and could not swallow a Pompion instead of a Mastic Pill, or a Hedgehog in stead of an Oyster) what's the Reason then that of old in their public Churches, and nowadays in their private Conventicles, they use not the Lords Prayer? Was it not because of that Petition, Forgive us our Trespasses as we forgive them that trespass against us? Debate, p. 95. 1 Ed.  
Answ. There were those who are now Nonconformists, that in former times used it constantly; and some who wrote Apologies for it: And divers Ministers nowadays who do keep private Meetings, do still use the Lords Prayer in their private Congregations.  
Quest. Can they be thought charitable, especially to Dissenters, that cry out of the Pope as Antichrist, and the Popish Religion as Antichristian?  
Answ. King James called the Pope Antichrist in his Writings. The Homilies call him so. Hom. Tom. 1. p. 17. Edit .. and again p. 38. & p. 70. Yea, the public Prayers for the 5th of Novemb. before Archbishop Laud's time, said of the Ramanists, that their Faith was Faction, and their Religion Rebellion.  
Quest. Have the Nonconformists nothing momentous against the Common-Prayer and Ceremonies, but only to cry out, that it was taken o●● of the Mass-Book, and that they are Relics of Rome, and Popish Superstitions? Deb. p. 97. ed. 1.  
Answ. I do know scarce one intelligent Nonconformist who refuses to use the Liturgy, upon this account, only, or chief, because taken out of the Mass-Book. My Gold is not therefore strait become dross, because stolen out of my Chest, and found in the house of a Thief; when 'tis legally restored to me again, what is it the worse? The Common-Prayer is older than the Mass, as we usually take the word Mass now adays: but the Mass, by the corruption of the Times, getting by degrees insensibly, by little and little, into the Liturgy, the Reformers finding things so, owned and adhered to the Liturgy as good Gold, but rejected the Mass as very Dross and Tin. Yet forasmuch as we cannot win the Papists to join with us in our Liturgy, as they did the first ten or eleven years of Q, Elizabeth; and that some of our own Church are ready to run away and separate from us, pretending we comply too much with Rome, in some of our Forms or Ceremonies: If if should please his most excellent Majesty and the Parliament, to cause the Liturgy to be revised, and some greater Alterations to be made for the better, than was of late; it should not offend, but rather much rejoice the Presbyterians. I have read that the Archbishop of Armagh declared his Judgement, when time was, against the introducing of the English Ceremonies into the Church of Ireland. And I have been told that the Right Reverend the Bishop of Hereford that now is, upon another occasion, expressed his Opinion to be, That the further of we keep from the Church of Rome, the better. I might add this also (which I had from a credible person presently after it was spoken) That the late Archbishop of Canterbury was very willing to have had, though a Liturgy, yet one that might not be so much displeasing, or dissatisfactory, as this was to many. I confess there are some well-meaning people who forbear to use the names of Altar, Priest Christmas, etc. or to call Festival days (wherein the Church of England commemorates the Saints, and blesseth God for their example) by the names of those Saints days; yet they are not altogether without all excuse in this their Scrupulosity, if we consider what a bad use they of the Church of Rome make of out keeping and continuing old words; Let us keep our forefather's words (say the Annotations on the Rhemist Testament, on 1 Tim. chap. 6.)— and w● shall easily keep our old and true Faith we had of the first Christians; Let them say Amendment. Abstinence, the Lords Supper, the Communion. Table, Elders, Ministers, Superintendents, Congregation, so be it.— Let tee keep the old terms, Penance, Fasting, Priest, Charity, Bishop, Mass, Matins, Even song, the blessed Sacrament, Altar, Oblation, Holt, Sacrifice, Alleluja, Amen, Lent, Palmsunday, Christmss, etc. and the very words will bring us to the faith of our first Apostles, and condemn these new Apostates, their new faith and phrases. If we consider further what is reported of Bishop Bonner, namely, that when he saw the Reformation, and how many of their Ceremonies were retained, being asked what he thought of it? If they like (said he) to taste of our Broth so well, they will eat of our Beef shortly. I dare say the Church since the Reformation never intended any adoration of the Bread by our kneeling in the act of receiving, and yet Bishop Hall saith thus; I had a dangerous conflict with a Sorbonist, who took occasion by our kneeling at the receipt of the Eucharist, to persuade all the company of our acknowledgement of a transubstantiation. It must be confessed further, that, amongst well-meaning people, some there are (though scarce any among the Ministry) who scruple the naming the Apostles and other Saints, whether real or imaginary, by the name of Saints; and their plea may be, they cannot see any sufficient reason (setting aside the Authority of our Governors and the Custom of the Times and Places we live in) why we should say St. Matthew and St. Andrew, 
Debate, pag. 64, 65.  rather than St. Moses and St. Aaron; and why they should call David a Bishop in Wales, St. David, rather than K. David King in Jerusalem, the one being truly a Saint and the Lords Anointed, and the other canonised by the Pope. Yet doubtless there are none so scrupulous amongst us but had as leave say St. Michael as St. George. As for the Nonconformists-Ministers, it was the practice of Dr. Thomas Goodwin (as I am informed) and was all along the late time● to say such a Chapter, or such a Verse of St. Matthew, St. Mark, St. Paul. etc. That 'tis not always necessary to mention the Apostles with the title of Saint, for fear of sin in the Judgement of our Church, may hence be concluded, that in all the Collects for the days set apart to commemorate the Holy Apostles in, there eaten but two wherein they eaten styled Saints.  
Quest. Do the Nonconformists hold it utterly unlawful to keep days in remembrance of what the holy Apostles, 
Deb. p. 73. 1. Ed.  and other Saints have done or suffered? and had they much rather keep a day of Thanksgiving for O. C. his defeating his Majesty at Worcester, than for Michael the Archangel his victory over the Devil and his Angels?  
Answ. Some think it impossible for a man, without special warrant from God, to sanctify so that the service performed unto God upon that day should be more acceptable than on any other. Some think the abuses of those Festival days are so great, common and customary, that if his Majesty and the Parliament saw good, it would be better and more easy, to abolish the Observation of them, than to take away the Abuses, which they think cleaves to them like the Leprosy in the wall of the house. That these Feasts were of Apostolical institution, or observed by the Apostles, any except Easter, is not so much as pretended unto that I read of; Hospinian hath told us the Original of them, to be of a much later date: And as for the observation of Easter itself, Mr. Hales is of opinion that it was an Error to hold it necessary to observe such a Feast; and the Controversy about the Time (which set all the World in a Combustion; and were it not that both sides pretended Conscience in the case, 
Hales of Schism, p. 5.  he thinks them all guilty of Schism) he saith was a matter most unnecessary and vain, The old Nonconforming Ministers did use to take the opportunity of those days to preach in to the people. Some Reformed Churches have no Saints days, but only keep some few days Holy in remembrance of our Saviour, or relating to the blessed Trinity: So as I take it, doth the Church of Scotland even at this day. For my own part I think the Church of England is well justified by Mr. Perkins from Superstition in her observance of the Festival days she observes. I can assure you there are that can observe a day to give thanks for the victory of Michael over the Devil, which neither did, nor could, nor would keep a day to give thanks for the victory of O. C. over the King at Worcester, or of Lambert over Sir George Booth in Cheshire. As for occasional days of Fasting and Humiliation, they have not been so much scrupled in the World by sober men, nor may be so liable to exception or abuse, as the stated Fasts and Feasts may; and I think usually they are mote strictly observed. As for the Nonconformists private days, which the Author of the Debate speaks of, if they keep them no better (those that do keep them) than many, if not most do, the ordinary stated Fasts and Feasts, I think they may do every whit as well to lay them aside.  
Quest. Next to Holidays, what do the Nonconforming-Ministers think of the Surplice, and the rest, commonly called Holy Garments; Is it not a superstitious and a very superfluous zeal which boils over so against these things?  
Answ. Some I confess are offended the Surplice because abused in the time, of Popery to superstition; and conceive possibly, that because Queen Elizabeth's In junctions or Articles say, that the grey Amice shall not be used, because it hath been so abused to Superstition; that there is the like equity for the disuse of the Surplice. There was a Learned, and Pious Person, once said, He had often worn the Surplice, but he thought he should rather be hanged than wear it again. For my own part, I should be loath to be a Martyr for or against the Surplice; being commanded to be used by the Church, not as having any holiness in it, but only as a decent Garment: Yea, I should be loath to be kept out of the Church or Pulpit by Suilling. The truth is, the Surplice is little beholding to those Doctors, that are the Champions for its use, when they tell us that it may teach us purity and holiness, wherewith we are to be clothed: And may it not as well mind us of the leprosy of sin wherewith we come into the World Lepers as white as Snow? Or when they tell us that the Saints that follow the Lamb in the Revelations, were all clothed with long White Robes; for by this reason all the People, men and women, as well as the Minister, should wear Surplices; and this too would make more for Uniformity.  
Whereas 'tis said, That there it at much to be said for a Ministers wearing a Surplice, at for his wearing a white Cap; and that there is no more reason for any to be offended to see a Minister wear a black Hood, or a Surplice, than to see him wear a white Cap under a black.  
It may be answered, That the Surplice is a Garment commanded to be worn by the Minister in Chapel or Church, and for the time of his Administration only: The Cap is ad libitum, at his choice, and worn at all times, and places, and employments alike; and not appropriated to holy persons or holy services; and what more reason why any man should be offended to see a white Cap under a black, than to see a little black Jack tipped with Silver? As for the Bishop's Lawn Sleeves, (whatever the Judge said) I hope they shall not choke me. The Cassock was a Garment for a Soldier, and may well enough become those of the Spiritual Militia. The Cirsingle, as 'tis called, is not for us Nonconformists, being turned out to Grass: Yet I would much rather choose to have it about my Middle, than my Neck; and to wear a Girdle, than to want a Blessing.  
But now seriously to address myself to the Author of the Friendly Debate: I think an indifferent temper about indifferent things, is the best; my Religion stands not in crying them up or down; I cannot be very zealous for or against them: Yet methinks it doth not argue much skill or cunning in a Chapman that hath Wares to sell, to tell his Customers, when they inquire and would be satisfied about the goodness of them, They are indifferent, they are indifferent. These things of themselves, and in themselves considered, with other humane Ceremonies, are but lawful, or indifferent, not necessary, in the Judgement of the Fathers and Sons of the Church. They are held, the Surplice and other Ceremonies, utterly unlawful in the Judgements and Consciences of many on whom they are imposed. Now grant it be their weakness so strongly and zealously to oppose these things; yet I most humbly beseech the Most Reverend and Right Reverend Fathers of the Church, seriously to weigh and consider what that Great Apostle St. Paul, the Great Doctor of the Gentiles, would have done in that case.  
Quest. Do those do well that reproach, revile, or slight Ministers, for their Cassocks, or Girdles? etc.  
Answ. They do not do well; no more do they that reproach and revile Ministers for not wearing of them. There hath been too much of this both on the Conformists and Nonconformists side; but 'tis to the commendation of neither. If we would forbear clashing one against another, live as Friends, as Brethren, and up to our profession, we should be men set by, and Reverenced by the People. What a shame is it that there should be so many several Religious Orders in the Romish Church, who have their several Habits, ceremonious Observations, and yet honour one another, and are all honoured by the People.  
Quest. Yet if the Nonconformist would come into the Church, and nor stand out as they do, out of Order and Rank, would not the Church be terrible like an Army with Banners?  
Answ. The Way to have all conform, I humbly conceive, is for the Bishops to follow the example of the Great Council Jerusalem, to lay upon the Necks of their Disciples, whether Pastors or People, no other Burden but necessity things, Acts 15. Add to this, At this day there is no perfect Uniformity amongst our Brethren that Conform: For some read all the Prayers, some not; some pray before Sermon, some only bid Prayer; some pray after Sermon, some not; some read Prayers on the holy days, some not; some read Prayers on Wednesdays and Frydays, some not; some preach twice a day, some but once; some Catechise in the afternoon, some not; some preach upon the 30th of January and the 29th of May, some, yea the most, not; some bow towards the Communion-Table, most not; some call it an Altar, most the Communion-Table; some bow at the name of Jesus, some not; some are for their Doctrine Calvinists, some Arminians; some are Latitudinarians, some Altitudinarians; some moderate Conformists for Canonical Conformity; some High Conformist● and for Praeter-canonical Conformity; some are Rigidissimos, that have short, narrow, little soul● and of the children's three; others have large true Christian breasts, of a capacious and of a comprehensive Charity: some are for Union Coalition, and Accommodation, though with some Condescension or yielding on their part, (if his Majesty and Parliament think fit) other think Moderation marts all: Some account the Calvinian-Conformists, Puritan-Conformists, and could be pleased more of them were cast out o● the Church; others think the Nonconforming-Puritans (such is their Life and Doctrine) may (permissu Superiorum) well be received again into the bosom of the Church.  
Quest. If the Nonconforming-Ministers forbear to come into the Church and conform ou● of Conscience, and not out of Policy, what reason can be given why divers of them when they were offered preferments in the Church at hi● Majesties first coming into the Land, stood blowing upon them so long, before they would either take or leave them? D. p. 111.  
Answ. In the Judgement of Charity we may judge the true reason was, they expected then some Alteration and Reformation both in Worship and Government; and they waited to set whether there would be such a Reformation as their Consciences could rest satisfied withal: if so, they resolved to accept those Dignities; but when they perceived things were to be settled in statu quo, in the condition they are now, they waved those places and preferments. Might but Bishop Ushers Reduction have been admitted in the Government, and the Ceremonies removed; or but his Majesty's Declaration about Ecclesiastical Affairs been made a Law, they would have thankfully embraced the offers that were then made them.  
Quest. What needs the removal of the Ceremonies be so much as desired of our Governors? Are they not like those of a Master of a Family to his Children and Servants to come into the Parlour or Hall at such an hour to Prayer in the Family, and to kneel there, and he uncovered during Family-Prayers? D. p. 106, 107.  
Answ. The Nonconforming-Ministers are very willing to come to the Church at the hours appointed by Law, and there to stand or kneel, and be bare or uncovered at the time of Prayers, if such conformity may serve the turn: But divers look upon the Ceremonies enjoined in the Liturgy as of another nature than those abovementioned (relating to Peace, Order and Decency only) namely, as Rites of a Mystical or Sacramental signification, and therefore have been rejected together with Popery at first by many of the Reformed Churches beyond the Seas, who yet we doubt not worship God decently and orderly, and in the beauty of Holiness.  
Quest. Are the Nonconformists such a cross-grained Generation, that it is the only way to bring them to Conformity, for the Magistrate to forbid the use of the Ceremonies? D.  
Answ. I wish (if his Majesty pleased) trial might be made in forbidding the Cross and Surplice, the reading the Lessons out of the Apocrypha, and the Old Translation of the Psalms o● David?  
Quest. Do not the Nonconformists hold that nothing may be done in the Worship of God but what is in joined by him in his Word? Deb. p. 101. edit. 1.  
Answ. They generally hold that nothing must be done as a part of God's Worship, nor as properly a medium cultus; but they hold that the determination of meet circumstances necessary in genere, is not necessary to be set down in the Word. Vid. Mr. Baxt. his disputat. about Ch. Governm. and the Proposals of the Presbyterians to his Majesty.  
Quest. Do the Nonconformists Ministers hold the Church of England no true Church, and the Ministers of it, if Conformists, no true Ministers? and do they dislwade people from frequenting the Churches, and hearing their Ministers settled in them?  
Answ. The Presbyterians have justified the calling of Ministers in the Church of England, in their Jus Divinum Ministerii Anglicani; they ●efuse not to communicate with the Public Assemblies; divers that sometimes keep private Meetings for Religious Exercises, they and their Auditors go to Church also, and join therein in praying and hearing, and receiving the Sacrament of the Lord's Supper.  
Quest. Do the Nonconformists-Ministers hold all superiority of one Presbyter above another, Antichristian?  
Answ. As to the Bishops of the Church of England, invested with all that Power which they have, and usually exercise in the Church of England, without the joynt-advice and consent of the Presbytery, we look upon them not as Jure Divino strictly, but as his Majesty's Deputies and Commissioners in Ecclesiastical Affairs; and, since his Majesty is pleased to make them Lords, can give them their Title, and serve God and the Church under them.  
Quest. Is the Assembly in their Directory for Worship so much out in advising and directing Ministers to preach in the evidence and demonstration of the Spirit and of Power? and are those Ministers guilty of error and presumption nowadays who make this a petition in Prayer before their Sermons, that they may be enabled so to preach? See Deb. p. 5. edit. 1.  
Answ. The sense of the Author of the Debate and divers other Interpreter? and the sense in which the Assembly and many other pious and learned Preachers use this Scripture, 1 Cor 2.4 need not necessarily to exclude one the other. Take Bishop Hall's Paraphrase upon the place My speech both in my private Exhortation, and i● my publicly Preach, was not curiously plausible as if I would win with words of humane Eloquent and Wit; but in plain and powerful expressions 〈◊〉 God's Spirit speaking in me, and working in you 〈◊〉 me. And the pious, prudent, and learned Bishop of Chester, in his Ecclesiastes, directing what kind of phrase a Minister must use in his preaching, saith, it must be affectionate and cordial, 〈◊〉 proceeding from the heart, and an experimental atquaintance with those Truths which we deliver— adds, this it to speak in the demonstration of th● Spirit and of Power. Besides, the learned D● Hammond tells us in his Comment on the New Testament, that divers places in the Old-Testament are said to be fulfilled in the New b● way of Accommodation. And why may not this Scripture be used by Ministers by way of Accommodation also? Do not the Sons of the Church pray for the Clergy of England, as for God's own Tribe, the Tribe of Levi? Besides, if you seriously consider the Context, you may see cause not wholly to reject the other interpretation namely that of Mr. Dixon in loc. Demonstrative nibus Scriptura & solida Veritatis quibus Spirit● potenter se exerebat & operabatur in vestris animis  
Quest. Do the Nonconforming-Ministers pre-end now to pray by the Spirit, as if the Holy-Ghost should immediately infuse method, matter and words whilst they pray?  
Answ. Mr. Hollingworth, sometime a prime Presbyterian in Lancashire, shall answer for them. They do not hold that they ought not to take bought beforehand what they should pray, expecting that the Holy-Ghost should immediately inspire them with method, matter and words of Prayer; who ever said, it was not they that prayed, but the Holy-Ghost praying in them. And yet in this duty as well as in others, the Sons of God are led by the Spirit of God, which is a Spirit of Grace and Supplication: and because we know not what to ask, he helpeth our infirmities; and we may be said to pray in the Spirit, not only because the holy Spirit doth stir up, warm and enlarge our affections in prayer, but be brings oft times to our remembrance the savoury and suit able phrases and passages of holy Writ, especially the promises which are most pertinent to our purpose. Why should any imagine that the evil spirit can have power to suggest evil thoughts or imaginations into us, to distract and hinder us when we are praying, and not the good and holy Spirit should suggest good thoughts and desires, and that too in his own language, I mean in Scripture-phrase and expressions, bringing them at such a time to our remembrance; Yea, the Holy-Ghost (saith that pious person) restrains the petulancy and extravagancy of wit, great swelling words of vanity, vain babble, idle repetitions, etc. and he teaches us to pray in the words of truth and soberness. We acknowledge a distinction betwixt the Gift of Prayer, and the Spirit of Prayer; The one is a common gift of the Spirit, the other is a special gift or grace of the Spirit, that consists in apt expressions, outward enlargements; this in deep impressions on the heart, devout affections, which are too big for expressions; these are the sighs and groans which cannot be uttered. A Reverend and worthy Prelate of the Church of England, treating of the gift of Prayer, saith thus, 
P. 12. — If it be a fault not to strive and labour after this gift, much more is it to jeer and despise it by the name of Extempore Prayer, and, praying by the Spirit; which Expressions, as they are frequently used by some men by way of reproach, are for the most part the sign of a profane heart, and such as are altogether strangers from the power and comfort of this duty.  
Quest. In case this expression may be tolerated and admit of any favourable construction, Do not they oftentimes use many light and indecent and sometimes very clownish expressions in their Prayer, to gratify the rudeness of their Auditors? Deb. p. 62. edit. 4.  
Answ. As for many of them they are not rash to utter any thing before the Lord they are very serious and sober in their expressions, affectionate and zealons in their utterance. There is a little Book of the Prayers of many of the chief of them; taken, I suppose, in Shorthand, without their knowledge, and published (for aught I know) without their consent; yet I conceive with some grains of allowance for common and pardonable errors, might pass with an Imprimatur. And if there be some who have used unbecoming expressions; Are there not to be found also among the Conformists guilty of the like Indecencies? Not to mention the Pr. of D. I. M. at Oxford, nor the Pr. of D. R. at Windsor; I hope it may be pardonable to cite that of the D. which was printed with his own knowledge; Let the Gold of our Nobility excel in Grace as they do in Honour; purify the Silver of our Gentry from the dross of Vice; engrave upon the Brass of the Communality the fear of thy holy Name. As for their affectionate way of utterance, I suppose it may be a means to move themselves & others to suitable affections to the duty they eaten about. Vocal Prayer, where it can conveniently be used, is by some preferred before mental, because 'tis a means to excite affections, and prevent distraction. One end of Prayer, as a very learned Author tells us, is not to move or affect God, but ourselves, that we may be fit to receive the good things that we beg of him; and then those words and phrases, and that way of utterance or speaking which is most affectionate and least affected, which is best adapted to the matter of the prayer, and productive also of good effects in ourselves and others, ought to be esteemed least liable to blame or exception. Is it not the part of an Orator to change his voice and gesture, according to the variety of the subject or matter he is speaking of? do not men begin an Oration with a low voice or tone ordinarily, and so rise higher as they go further, and ordinarily are most intense and earnest towards the Conclusion? We are directed in the Common-Prayer-Book to repeat the Confession of Sins after the Minister with a meek, heart and humble voice: And I have heard of one, that, for his voice and confidence, was charged that he confessed his sins as if he was proud of them?  
Quest. Do not some Nonconformists complain that they cannot be so affected in the hearing of Common-Prayer, as at other Prayers? Deb. p. 89. edit. 4.  
Answ. I have heard it bitterly complained of, that the Common Prayers which are good in themselves, should be abased by mean, pitiful, scandalous Readers, and be read in so slight and dull a manner. The Liturgy is not ordinarily, as to its effects on the generality of the Auditors, the same, when read by a worthy person, and in a grave and decent manner, as otherwise: yet I confess some reason why many men are not so much affected with the Common-Prayer is with the Minister's own Prayer, may be the frequent repetition of the same prayers. I suppose where a man strictly toeth himself to a Form of Prayer (though of his own composing) constantly before or after Sermon, it is not ordinarily so affecting or quickening to himself or others, as when he doth otherwise. I think Prayer by forms, and conceived prayers, both lawful, and both of them have their excellencies in some respects. That by a Form, excels in some respects Conceived Prayer; in others, as I heard the Pious, Reverend and Learned Dr. Holdsworth when he was Vicechancellor (at the Commencement) at Cambridge determine the matter, though he concluded for the lawfulness and expediency of a Liturgy for Public Worship; Such it the nature of man that he is ordinarily most excited in his affections, and his attention soon engaged and raised by Novelty or variety. And hear what a Reverend Person, no enemy to Episcopacy and Liturgy, saith of Prayer by Book; There is not that life and vigour in it to engage the affections, as when it proceeds immediately from the soul itself, and is the natural expression of those particulars whereof we are most sensible. B. Ch. G. P. p. 12. Now one Reason being given in the Preface to the Liturgy, why some Ceremonies are retained, being this, because they are apt to affect the dull mind of man, etc. why may not a Minister so order his Prayers before and after Sermon, etc. as to voice and phrase, as may most probably affect himself and them that join in prayer with him? I do by no means approve of Romantic or Courtly expressions on the one hand in Prayer, nor Rude and Rustic expressions on the other. I think Scripture-phrase is best, fittest, and of choice, therefore to be made use of. And to this (I think) I may safely say the generality of the Non-conformists do conform as much as the Conformists themselves.  
Quest. How can a man join in a Prayer in which he is not before acquainted?  
Answ. As a man may in his judgement assent unto any Divine Truth delivered in a Sermon, which he never heard before; so may he join in his affections unto any holy desire in a Prayer which he never heard before. 
B. C.  If he who is mouth of the rest, shall through impudence deliver that which he cannot approve, God does not look upon it as our Prayer, if our Desires do not say Amen to it.  
Quest. Do the high Prelatists allow of Ministers to pray any Prayer besides the Common-Prayer?  
Answ. Dr. Heylyn condemns the custom of praying before and after Sermon. We are told that this doth frustrate the end and design of the Liturgy, and that 'tis needless, etc. And that although many Orthodox men, not intending evil thereby, have in latter times taken up this fashion, yet they are generally to be blamed, and have much to answer for their Nonconformity herein, if we believe the Author of a late Pamphlet, called the Converted Presbyterian.  
Quest. What is to be thought of Afternoon-Sermons, is not that a thing wholly superfluous, and would it not be better if as the Citizens and others have reduced their Families to one Meal a day; so the Ministers would their Congregations to one Sermon a day, and so have nothing besides Common-Prayer and Catechism in the evening? Deb. p. 89. edit. 4.  
Answ. The Lord Falkland, in his Speech in Parliament, complained of some leading Bishops before the Wars, that they cried up Catechising, to decry Preaching. Catechising indeed is talked of much, but by many 'tis to be feared, it is to justle out the Afternoon-Sermon out of doors: for we find in many Churches there is neither Preaching nor Catechising in the Afternoon. Of old, preaching was accounted praecipuum munus Episcopi, the Bishop's chief Work or Office. Bishop Latimer was very smart against Unpreaching Prelates in his time; but of later times the Lord Falkland in his speech in Parliament charged some of that Order that they discouraged and discountenanced Preaching; that they preached not themselves, and discountenanced them that would. And not long before the Wars, I heard a Friend, a Minister (that had been with his Diocesan) who said, That upon his quoting of Bishop Davenant to the Bishop, in justification of something he said; the Bishop replied, WHAT DO YOU TALK OF HIM, A PREACHING-COXCOMB! Bishop Latimer, Ridley, Jewel, etc. were great Patrons of Preaching, and themselves practised it Archbishop Grindal went so far as to countenance the Meetings called prophesyings; and Bishop Hall of late thought they might be profitable. Former Histories did nor tell stories of any Bishop of the Reformed Religion, that gave God thanks that he had not left one Lecture, or one afternoon-Sermon in all his Diocese. There was a Gentlewoman of good Quality, cited a Kingly Preacher, viz. Solomon in his Ecclesiastes, for preaching in the Evening as well as Morning, Eccles. 11.6. In the morning sow thy Seed, and in the Evening withhold not thy hand. In the Country they account those Shepherd's most careful of their flocks, and to have usually the best Sheep, who fothet twice a day. The Apostle Paul exhorts ro be instant in season and out of season: a Sermon in the afternoon can be but out of season. 'Tis observed that the Sermons at Court before Queen Elizabeth were constantly in the afternoon. And I knew a Parish in the Country, where it was desired by the good women, That in case their Minister would preach but once a day, it might be in the afternoon; because, they said, it might be a meant to keep their Husbands out of the Alehouse. The Morning Service according to the Common Prayer-Book being so long, they thought a Sermon might be better spared in the morning than in the afternoon.  
Quest. Although preaching in the beginning of the planting the Christian Religion might be necessary, yet is it so in these days?  
Answ. Preaching serves not only to inform the Understanding, but to excite and awaken the Affections, and to bring to remembrance what we have been taught before. Paul planted, and Apollo's watered even there where the Apostle Paul had first planted. A good Stomach can digest two Meals a day, and why may not a Soul of a healthful constitution have two Meals a Week. I believe the Christians in Russia have never the fatter Souls for going in lean Pastures, for two Meals, I mean two Sermons a year.  
Quest. Would it not be good Policy not to suffer any to preach, but only to read Common Prayer and the Homilies? Would not this be an effectual way and means to prevent Errors and Heresies, Rents and Divisions amongst us? Doth not this preaching sow many Tares in the Field of the Church?  
Answ. I have heard of some Preachers indeed who preach down preaching, but I take them to be never a whit the better Preachers, nor the better Christians for that; I acknowledge the Homilies to contain wholesome and very profitable Doctrine, and think I should spend my time better to heat one of them read, than to hear some Preachers nowadays. But if ability to read the Book of Common Prayer and the Book of Homilies, be all the Book-Learning necessary for a Minister, 'tis to be feared that some Princes or Parliaments may come, before many Ages pass who may be so thrifty as to be willing to save the needless expense of a million or two millions a year in Church-Maintenance; and think 20 l. per annum enough for men of such Parts, Education, and Learning.  
Quest. Is not Catechising the younger people in the afternoon, a very profitable and a laudable practice?  
Answ. This I can say, I used It for many years together, besides preaching usually twice a day. 'Tis observed that the Protestants in the beginning of the Reformation, got advantage over the Papists, by their diligence in Catechising; and that since the Papists by their diligence the same way, have got ground of us. I am not against the use of the Church-Catechism for Children; and do really think the Right Reverend Bishop Nicholson hath deserved well for bis Exposition of it. But I confess I cannot approve of the Vicar that in his Catechising, going about to justify that Question, What it thy Name? brought that Scripture for it, where 'tis recorded of our blessed Saviour, that he said to the man possessed of the Devil, What is thy Name? and he answered, My Name is Legion.  
But as for the knowledge, of the Catechism (if it may lawfully be done) I could be glad none might be married before they give an account of it.  
Quest. Sith preaching is so necessary, what way of preaching is best? The Jingling way, or the Rational Philosophical way, or the Rational Scripture way, with Reasons out of Scripture, and Testimonies from Scripture?  
Answ. I dare not commend the first way, which yet I suppose was more practised in former times than of late: Such as that was of Dr. Pl. on that place of the Canticles, My Bed is green; Typical, My; Topical, Bed; Tropical, green: Typical, Topical, Tropical; My Bed is green. Such as was that of the Doctor and Dignitary at Oxford about the lost Groat; such as was the mode of the Wits about thirty years ago; and such as was well expressed and exposed since by a Citizen or Countryman, who being asked how he liked the Sermon, and how the Minister preached? Answered, He could not say much of it, but it ran or sounded thus, as if he had said, 
A Pudding, a Pie;  
A Pudding-Pie:  
A Pudding for thee,  
A Pie, for me;  
A Pudding-Pie  
For me and thee.  Nor do I look on him is one of the finest Preachers, that lately exhorted his Hearers to put on the Satin of Sincerity, the Purple of Purity, and the Silk of Simplicity.  
As for the Rational way, the mode of some great Doctors of these days, if they would intermix more of Scripture-Reason, or Scripture-Testimonies, it might be very profitable for learned Auditories.  
As for the way by Doctrine, Reason, and Use, by Testimonies out of the holy Scriptures, more than Citations out of the Ancient Fathers, or by Reasons deduced from Philosophy, (such as I apprehend was the preaching of Mr. Perkins, Mr. Hildersham, old Mr. Dod, Archbishop Usher, Bishop Sanderson, Bishop Reynolds, and many others in our days) I think it most edifying to ordinary Auditors: And this I conceive to be that which the Assembly mean in their Directory for preaching, and others in their Prayers before Sermon, by preaching in the evidence and demonstration of the Spirit and of Power. Bishop Hall in his Paraphrase, and the Bishop of Chester in his Ecclesiastes, as I conceive, are both of this Judgement. Scripture-Reasons, and Scripture-words and phrases, do best of all become a Minister of the Word. Doctrina Evangelii cum sit Divina ac tota spiritualis Divinis etiam verbis explicanda, & Divinis rationibus confirmanda est, ut proportio servetur inter res & verba itemque argumenta qua●● non temerè in rebus Theologicis usurpandae sunt ●●manae phrases, nec rationes Philosophicae nisi pror●● evidentes sint facile adhibendae. Vorstius on the second Chapter of the first Epistle to the Corinthians.  
Quest. Are not all private Meetings for exercise of Religion, illegal and schismatical, though not in opposition unto the Public Assemblies?  
Answ. Till of late, a Conventicle, I have heard, was a Meeting under pretence of Religi●●, where people met to pray and preach against the Government of the Church and State. The Bishop, by the Canons, hath power to give leave for the keeping of a private Fast: And I know a Bishop that did so, before the Act against Conventicles was made.  
Quest. Is it impossible that they should be either good Christians or good Subjects, who keep and frequent private Meetings, commonly called Conventicles?  
Answ. There are amongst the Papists (whom may suppose the Author of the Debate thinks good Christians and good Subjects) who assemble themselves for Religious Exercises. And there were a Congregation of Protestants in the Reign of Queen Marry, which yet were good Christians and good Subjects; and which I would not brand with the name of a Conventicle, no more than the Author of the Debate would the Meetings of Dr. Gunning, Dr. Hyde, and other, for the Common Prayer in the late time; although if Conventicles be against the Common Law, that was the same then and now. Judicious Mr. Hales in his Tract of Schism, hath more Charity for Dissenten: 
P. 2.  When either false and uncertain Conclusions are obtruded for Truth, and Acts either unlawful, or ministering just scruple, are required of us to be performed; in these Cases, (saith he) Consent were Conspiracy; and of open Contestation is 〈◊〉 Faction or Schism, but due Christian Animosity.  
Quest Whether do the Nonconformist-Mitisters look after Visions and Revelations?  
Answ.. 'Tis that which the Papists and Semi● P●pists, the Quakers, pretend unto; but these I conceive may rather be ranked amongst the Conformists, than the Nonconformists, by the like reason that Seekers and Anabaptists are numbered a nongst Nonconformists. And here let me inser● a short story:  
In the late times, One (now a great Son of th● Church) travelling with two (now Nonconforming) Ministers; he being the Signior Man and Minister was desired to pray with them and for them, before they went to Bed: this he did; and in his Prayed, That God would send them Godly Dreams that night. On occasion whereof, one of the Ministers said to the other, He did not like this over-Godliness; he that would over-godly it, would undergodly it.  
If any Nonconforming-Ministers have been superstitiously observers of Dreams, it may be queried whether the late Little Great Archbishop of Canterbury was not guilty of the same fault also.  
Quest. Do the Nonconformists persuade or assure themselves of God's favour only or chief from a voice within them, which they say is the holy Spirit, telling them that they are Jedidiah's, beloved of God? And do they not look upon what Graces the holy Spirit hath wrought in them, as evidences of his Love?  
Answ. We affirm that the Works or fruits of the Holy Ghost in us, which upon search we find in our own Souls, are our Evidences of God's love to us. If we once find in ourselves those gracious Qualifications to which the Promises of Pardon, Peace, and Comfort are made in the holy Scripture; this is every whit as sure as if an Angel from Heaven should tell us with an audible Voice, Be of good cheer, your sins are forgiven you; Peace be to you, you are the Favourites of Heaven. The Spirit of God is first a sanctifying, and then a sealing Spirit; first he converts us, and then he comforts us.  
Quest. Do not Nonconfomists vaunt too much of their Assurances, Comforts, Experiences? And may not these prove strange fancies in conclusion?  
Answ. The holy Prophet David, and the blessed Apostle Paul, both cite their own Experiences, and draw comfort from them. He delivered me from the mouth of the Lion, 
1 Sam. 17.37.  and from the paw of the Bear, and he will deliver me from this uncircumcised Philistine: So the ore. And he hath delivered, he doth deliver; in whom I trust also that he will yet deliver. So the other.  
Quest. Do these Nonconforming-Ministers cheat the People, by making them believe that they preach experimentally what they have heard and seen, and experimented themselves. Deb●● p. 35, 37. Edit. 4.  
Answ. I have heard that it was the Saying of a Learned Man, no Nonconformist, That the way to be a good Preacher, was to get a good Heart. Doubtless that which comes from the Heart, is most likely to go to the Heart. He that hath tasted the sweetness of Honey and Sugar, can better speak of it, knows better by his experience the sweetness of Honey and Sugar, than he that hath only heard and read of it in a Book. Holy David, a King and a Prophet, called to others to hearken, and he would tell them what God had do●● for his Soul. He that hath been persuaded and converted himself, is likeliest to persuade and convert others.  
'Tis storied of Junius, That before his Conversion, meeting once with a Countryman as he was in a Journey, and falling into discourse with him about divers points of Religion, he observed the plain fellow to talk so experimentally, with so much heartiness and affection, as made him first begin to think sure there was something more in those Truths, than his notional humane Learning had yet discovered; which occasioned his more serious enquiry into them, and afterwards his Conversion.  
Quest. Is it proper to allege the conversion of Souls from the Error of their Ways, as a Seal to our Ministry?  
Answ. The Apostle St. Paul, when his Ministry was questioned and disgraced, appealed unto this, 2 Cor. 3.2. Ye are our Epistle, (viz. of commendation to or from the Church of Corinth) written in our hearts, known and read of all men. This Epistle was the Apostles Evidence and Seal that he was a true Minister of the Lord Jesus.  
But this I must have leave to say, that 'tis no evidence of a real conversion; to rail at Bishops, or the Common Prayer; nor on the other side, at Nonconformists, as Schismatics, Sectaries, Rogues, etc. I know that Religion is another thing, and teacheth other things, better things than these. And I believe there are serious, sober, solid, godly persons, excellent Christians, placable, Sons of Peace, of both Persuasions; that pray to God, and would be ready to join in Petition to Authority, for some expedient for a Reconciliation: And such a spirit as this, I look on as a Gospel-spirit, and well-becoming Preachers and Professors of the Gospel of Reconciliation: and if there be any of either side, that have not attained to this or the like spirit, I look on them as of a lower form of Godliness; and on endeavours and actings contrary to this way of Peace, to be no part of their Godliness, or any evidence of their Conversion; though I will not say, they are therefore ungodly or unconverted.  
Quest. Why do not Nonconformists preach up Peace and Unity, and Obedience to Superiors?  
Answ. You tell us that the Nonconformists hold it their duty to declare the whole Counsel of God; and they tell us that 'tis their duty to pray for Magistrates, and to obey their lawful Commands for Conscience-sake; and therefore 'tis but Charity to judge they will not be wanting in what they are convinced of, is their Duty.  
If there be any that sow the Seeds or Tares of Division and Disobedience, whether in private Meetings, or public Congregations; I say concerning them, O my Soul, come not thou into their secrets, unto their Assemblies be not thou united: yet there are, I fear, who cry peace, peace, when there is no peace, but war in their hearts; all the Peace and Unity they intent and endeavour after, is but to bow all to their own Bent, Ways, Opinions, and Sentiments; and to break all those whom they cannot bend. Some there are, who with much pretended Zeal, cry, and that aloud, for obedience to Magistrates and Laws, and act more out of policy and self-interests, than Conscience; making these but as stalking-horses, the better to come near, and to shoot at their own Game; thus taking vengeance on their own supposed Enemies, whilst they seem to do God and his Vicegerent service: Hereby breaking the whole Law of God, pretending the observation of the fifth Commandment; and that fundamental Law of our Peace and happiness, the Act of Indemnity, whilst they pretend Zeal to the Act of Uniformity: Else what's the reason that they seldom or never preach but upon that subject, when as it sufficeth by the Canons to treat of it four times a year. For my own part, I acknowledge and profess 'tis a duty to preach obedience to God and his Vicegerent, both to be obedient our self, and to teach others also this duty by Precept and Example: Yet I must confess, I do not think they do all things decently and in order, who always preach up the Duty of the people at Court, not they that preach the duty of Rulers in the Country.  
Quest. But are there not Nonconforming-Ministers, who were formerly great Friends to the Army, and Countenancers and Encouragers of them in their illegal, unjust, and horrid Proceed against King and Parliament?  
Answ. I know none of the whole Tribe of the Presbyterians that are so. I have heard of one Mr. Martin lately imprisoned for a Conventicle at Warwick, that lost his Arm in his Majesty's service; and I have heard of one that marched before the Soldiers, when they went to fight against his Majesty at Worcester, that hath been a zealous Conformist since: Not do I know that he and many others ever saw day, till the Royal Sun arose in our Horizon, to scatter the Clouds that hung over their eyes. The horrid murder of his late Majesty, as it was abhorred and declared against by the Presbyterian Ministers, and others, in City and Country, from Pulpit and Press; so it was (that I know of) never undertaken to be justified by any Minister in print, but by J. G. that great Goliath and Champion of the Arminians. And the Presbyterians, yea, those who were Commissioners for the View of the Liturgy, Declare in one of the Papers to his Majesty, That till the Covenant was decried as an Almanac out of date, and its Obligation taken to be null, that odious Fact could never have been perpetrated against your Royal Father, nor your Majesty so long expulsed from your Dominions.  
Quest. Do the Nonconforming-Ministers call those Moral Preachers who preach obedience to the Moral Law, and the necessity of good Works?  
Answ. He that rightly divides the Word of Truth, must preach Law and Gospel both; Moral as well as Evangelical Duties; yet 'tis best to preach the Law as it was first delivered in the hands of a Mediator. Blame them not if they preach frequently the Gospel, and the great love of Christ to sensible Sinners, because the love of Christ constrains us to love him again; 'tis the Loadstone of Love: Nothing, they say, is more easy, than to love him that loves us; and the Apostle John tells us, That we love God, because he first loved us. But 'tis not very long since Puritan Preachers, as they were nicknamed, were charged to preach nothing but Hell and Damnation.  
Quest. Do Nonconforming-Ministers use to preach Comfort to ungodly Sinners, resolving still to live ungodly?  
Answ. No, by no means: The Presbyterians and others used to declare against Antinomianism, and to preach Repentance towards God, as well as Faith in our Lord Jesus Christ; to him that was sensible of sin, and weary of it, and that mourned for it, they were willing to preach glad Tidings of Remission, and Reconciliation: They were and are Enemies both to presumption and desperation, and seek to save Souls from perishing either way: They are ordinarily first Beanerges' then Barnabas'; and seek first and most to wash the inside of the Platter, than the outside; first they aim to cleanse the Heart, than the Hands: They press men first to seek God in prayer with their whole heart for pardon and grace, and then direct them how to pray (whether with or without a Book in private) as shall be most expedient for them; they deny (those that I converse withal) that they dissivade any from the use of the Liturgy or Common Prayer. This indeed is a Maxim with them in Religion, Quod cor non facit non fit; and that the devotion of the Soul, is the soul of Devotion.  
Quest. In case a person be truly troubled in Conscience for his sin, to which is he to be sent for Comfort? To the Law, or to the Gospel; to his own Obedience or Good Works, or to the Obedience of Christ?  
Answ. The ordinary method of Cure, is first to search the Wound to the bottom, and then to apply healing Remedies; first to pour in Wine, and then Oil. Our Physicians use first to purge or vomit their Patients, and then to give Cordials: So spiritual Physicians, till the Patient be truly and rightly sensible of his sins, they send him to the Law, for by the Law comes the knowledge of sin, the horrid nature and demerit of it; but then for Comfort, they send him to the Gospel, to this sovereign Balsam; yea, they pour on them the Oil of Gladness, upon whom they perceive has been the Spirit of Heaviness: They say not, Physician heal thyself; but rather send them to the Great Physician, by whose stripes we and they are healed: We dare not trust in our own Righteousness, but in the Lord our Righteousness.  
Quest. Do not Nonconformists, as they desire liberty from the Impositions of Men in the Worship of God, so preach up liberty from the Commandments of God in the Course of their Lives? Or at least do they not lift up their Voice like a Trumpet, when they publish the Gospel; but only speak in a small and still Voice, when they treat of Obedience to the moral Law?  
Answ.. 'Tis an unjust Calumny cast on the Protestants by the Papists, That they are Solifidians, and against good Works: And 'tis an uncharitable censure of the Nonconformists by the Author of the Debate, that they do not preach obedience to the Moral Law, as well as Faith in Christ; and the Duties of the second Table of the Law, as well as of the first. Whoever reads the Assemblies Confession of Faith, their Larger and Shorter Catechism, M. Dod on the Commandments, Mr. Anth●● Burgess his Vindiciae Legis, & may see cl●●● that the Nonconformists are not Lib●●●●es, ●●●●gh they desire some Liberty) and that thou 〈◊〉 pray to be delivered and freed from humane ceremonial Laws, (as God has freed them from the Ceremonial Law of his own making) yet they are not Antinomians; they commend, and in God's name require, Obedience, as well as Faith; Doing, as well as Believing; they commend Moral Honesty, but prefer Piety: We deny him to be a truly godly man, that is not a good honest man; we deny him to be righteous before God, that endeavours not to approve himself righteous, in his deal with men. We would not by any means break the two Tables, by dashing them one against the other; and yet we prefer the Gospel before the Law, Christ to Moses, the second Covenant to the first, that of Grace to that of Works.  
Quest. Is not Obedience then to the Moral Law, the Condition of our Justification? See Debate, p. 13.  
Answ. No: 'Tis not the Condition and Qualification of the Covenant, so properly, 
D. M.  as 'tis of those Persons that enter into the Covenant. Faith justifieth the Person before God, and Obedience justifieth the Faith before men. Obedience (saith a Reverend Author) must be in the same Subject with Faith, but it hath not a Voice in the same Court. We do not cry down man's Obedience, when we cry up the Obedience of Christ, as the matter of our Justification, and the Imputation of it, as the form of our Justification: We dare not appear before God in our own filthy Garments and menstruous clothes: We expect a Blessing from our Heavenly Father, when we are arrayed with the Robes of our Elder Brother Jesus Christ his Righteousness, which sends up a sweet smell in God's Nostrils.  
Quest. Is Faith, or believing in Christ, a coming to Christ, or a relying on Christ for the pardon of our sin? See Debate, p. 43.  
Answ. Yes: John 7.37, 38. there coming to Christ, and believing, are all one: And to what end Sinners are called to come to Christ, we my learn from our blessed Saviour, Mat. 11.28. namely, That they may find rest. I believe in God, (saith Bishop Nicholson in his excellent Exposition of the Church-Catechism) as if I said, I put my whole trust, hope, and confidence in him, I ●ely upon him: And so may Faith in Christ, I ●hink be very well described, to be a relying on Christ for the pardon of our sins, and all good ●hings. If my memory fail not, I have often ●eard that Renowned Professor, Dr. Samuel Ward, deliver it for good Doctrine in the Chair, That Faith was Recumbentia in Christum Media●re, etc. a Recumbency on Christ for the pardon of ●ins .. One Mr. Down, that wrote too against Separation, defineth Faith to be a rest of the Will up●n Christ and his merits, for Justification, and consequently Salvation. And the same Author observes that the Hebrew words 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 all words equipollent in the old Testament; and what is meant by them in the Old Testament, is expressed in the New by Believing: To instance in one, Trust in the Lord with thy whole heart, saith the Old Testament, Prov. 3.5. If thou believest with thy whole heart, or with all thy heart, saith the New, Act. 8.37. We may define Faith thus: It it a gracious habit infused into the Heart by the Spirit of God, whereby the Soul rests or rolls itself upon Christ for all things appertaining to Life and Godliness, for God's Glory and its own Salvation.  
Quest. Who are the greatest Enemies to the Church of England, and to Religion itself, those who bring in new and strange Doctrines, or those that descent only from her as to the Ceremonies?  
Answ. Those that differ in Substantials 〈◊〉 Religion, are to be thought more to differ, th●● those that differ only in Circumstantials; and those aught to be reputed the greatest Nonconformists, who do not conform to the Doctrines the Church of England, set forth in her Articles Homilies and Liturgy.  
Quest. Who are they?  
Answ. Even many that have been conformable enough as to Ceremonies; their Names an● Tenets you may find in a Book entitled Laude●sium 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, and in another called La●densium 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉: Who they were th● maintained these Doctrines, and their Doctrin●● in some measure also, you may find in Mr. Rushworth's Collections, and others, who have written the History of the Times immediately preceding the late Wars. I shall refer you to one, and that is Dr. Fuller in his Church-History, who relates, that it was complained of to the Sub-committees for Religion in Parliament, (of which Sub-committee the Bishop of Lincoln, the Bishop of Armagh, the Bishop of Durham, the Bishop of Exeter, Dr. Sam. Ward, Dr. Hacket, Dr. Holdsworth, and others, were Members) that all the Tenets of the Council of Trent (abating only such points of State-Policy against the King's Supremacy, as were made Treason by the Statute) Good works Co-causes with Faith in Justification, private Coufession by particular ennumeration of sins, needful necessitate medii to Salvation; that the Oblation (or, as others, the Consumption of the Elements in the Lord's Supper) holdeth the nature of a true Sacrifice, Prayers for the Dead; lawfulness of Monastical Vows, the gross substance of Arminianism, and some dangerous points of Socinianism had been preached or printed by some amongst us.  
Quest. If it should be proved true, that the high Conformists should warp somewhat from the Doctrine of the Church of England; yet have they not all, and always been constant and firm to the Government to King and Parliament, and great admirers of what their Superiors do and say?  
Answ. Dr. Heylyn tells us that he cannot reckon the death of King Edward the sixth, for an infelicity of the Church of England, for being (as he saith) ill principled in himself, and easily inclined to embrace such counsels as were offered to him, it is not to be thought but that the rest of the Bishoprics, before sufficiently impoverished must have followed Durham; and the poor Church left as destitute of Lands and Ornaments at when she came into the world in her natural nakedness. The abovenamed Dr. Heylyn, in his History of the Reformation, chargeth the Grandees at Court and in the Parliament of those times, with such vices and crimes, as our Adversaries may make use of to blemish our Reformation. All which, with some other considerations, may give occasion to some to think, that what the Devil said falsely and maliciously against Job, may, a little altered, be too truly, and without breach of charity, said of some high blades; Do they fear and honour the King and Parliament for nought? Have they not made a hedge about them, and about their house, and about all that they have on every side, and their Substance is increased in the Laud? But let but King and Parliament put forth their hand now, and touch all they have, and they would (if not for fear of punishment) curse them to their face.  
Quest. Is there any other absolute promise besides that of sending Christ into the World?  
Answ. Yes, many; As that Gen. 9.9. not to drown the World any more. That of calling of the Gentiles, Gen. 49.10. The promise of the Conversion of the Jews, as is generally thought, Rom. 11. The promise of giving Christ the Heathen for his inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for his possession, Psal. 2. And that Isa. 53. He shall see his Seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in his hands: That Christ shall have a Seed to serve him; that Christ shall certainly and infallibly save some; and the Lord knows who are his: That he hath not shed his Blood in vain, like water spilt on the ground; that this glorious Head of the Church, shall certainly have a Body in some measure answerable and suitable to the Head, etc. The promise of First Grace is thought to be absolute, I will take away your heart of Stone, and give you a heart of Flesh. 'Tis confessed, we are bid to convert and turn, and to come to Christ, and to make ourselves new hearts; and yet 'tis as true, that we cannot do any of these things of ourselves, without Divine Assistance, and special Grace: But this for out Comfort, That which is the matter of Duty in one place of Scripture, is the matter of a Promise in another: And again, That Gospel-Commands are not only significations of out Duty, but Conveyances of strength to do our Duty.  
Quest. Is not Mr. W. B. absurd in comparing God's people to Plate?  
Answ. I answer, There is Scripture-ground enough to justify the calling of God's people his Plate: for in Scripture they are called Gods Jewels, or his peculiar Treasure, Psal. 3.17. And obdurate wicked men are compared to Reprobate Silver, Jer. 6.30.  
Quest. May we not say, That we come to the Promises by Christ?  
Answ. In him are all the Promises Yea, and in him Amen, 2 Cor. 1.20. As a woman hath a right to her Jointure, by first taking the man to her wedded Husband; so Christians have a right to the Promises, and all good things, by taking Christ first for their Lord and Husband.  
Quest. Is fear the chief and principal motive of a Christian to Duty and Obedience, I mean the fear of punishment?  
Answ. No: The chief and best Principle is Love; I look on them as of a lower form in Religion, who only serve God for fear of Hell: Although this fear is useful, yet 'tis not the principal motive to obidience in God's Children. And this was the Divinity of former time. I do not hold it unlawful to serve God for fear of punishment, nor hopes of Reward; yet this I say, That fear alone speaks a man a Servant, and love speaks a min a Son: And those are the best Servants to Virtue, who serve virtutis amore, for the love of Virtue. A man may hate the good he doth, and love the evil which he doth not do. If then a man do that which is commanded merely or chief for fear of Hell, is be necessarily one of God's best Servants? I think not; because he may at the same time hate the good he doth, and love the evil he abstains from. As for working with an eye to the Reward intuitu mercedis, 'tis justifiable and commendable; 'tis that which Moses did, Heb. 11.26 and which our blessed Saviour did; and it sufficeth the Servant to be as his Master; Christians to be Followers and Imitators of Christ their Lord and Master.  
Quest. Are good Works necessary to our Justification? Debate, p. 13.  
Answ. The Church of England in her 11th Article, teaches her Children thus: We are righteous before God, only for the merit of the Lord our Saviour Jesus Christ by Faith, and not for our own Works or Deservings: Wherefore that we are justified by Faith only, is most wholesome Doctrine, and very full of Comfort, etc. And in her Book of Homilies, Tom. 1. pag. 17. Edit. 1623. thus: Justification is not the Office of man, but God: or man cannot make himself righteous by his own Works, neither in part nor in whole; for that were the greatest arrogance and presumption of Man, that Antichrist could set up against God.  
Quest. Hath the Doctrine of the Imputation of Christ's Righteousness for our Justification, been the Doctrine of our Church, and the prime Doctors of it?  
Answ. The Papists indeed call it with a jeer, Putative Righteousness. And 'tis storied of a Popish Bishop, lighting accidentally on that place, Rom. 4.6. Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man unto whom God imputeth Righteousness without Works, etc. threw away the Book in great displeasure, and said, O Paul! an tu quoque Lutheranùs factus es? O Paul art thou also become a Lutheran? 'Tis observed by 〈◊〉 Conforming Minister, that the Apostle Paul mentions this grace of Imputed Righteousness ten times in the 4th chapter to the Romans; and Bishop Andrews in his most excellent Sermon on that Scripture, Jehova Justitia nostra, His na●● shall be called, The Lord our Righteousness; and B● Downham, in his Treatise of Justification, strongly asserts it: And the Doctors of the Chair for 〈◊〉 long time, have taught the same Doctrine. So that now I should think that Doctor, though in the Chair, to be besides the Cushion, that teaches otherwise.  
Quest. Is the difference betwixt the Old and New Covenant this, that the Old Covenant made with the Jews propounds temporal rewards, and the Gospel propounds eternal? and hath this been the Doctrine of the Church of England, and of the prime Doctors since the Reformation? Deb. p. 26.  
Answ. The 7th Article of the Church of England saith thus; The Old Testament is not contrary to the New. Both in the Old and New Testament everlasting life is offered to mankind by Christ; who is the only Mediator between God and man; wherefore they are not to be heard which say, that the old Fathers did look only for transitory promises:  
Quest. Do not Nonconformists abuse the people in their preaching, by preaching in the Apostolical language, That which we have seen and heard, declare we unto you?  
Answ. I think the Prophet David doth not abuse himself and others, when he saith, O taste and see that the Lord is gracious; Nor the Apostle Paul the Ephesians, when he tells them that Jesus Christ came and preached peace to them that were near, and to them that were afar off; Nor the Galatians, when he saith, Jesus Christ was evidently set forth, crucified amongst them: Neither doth Job juggle, or cast a mist before his own and others eyes, when he saith, with these eyes he shall see his Redeemer; although we take the interpretation of Mercer on the place, of his Recovery here. What though the Apostles saw our Saviour in the flesh, heard his Sermons, and conversed daily with him; may not Christians nowadays see him with an eye of Faith in his Word and Sacrament? and hear him when he speaks to us in the Writings of the Apostles, as it were from Heaven, and by the mouths of his Ministers upon Earth? Must no passage or phrase of Scripture be used but in its first signification? sure we are that many places of the Old Testament are used in the New, chief or only by way of accommodation.  
Quest. Do the Nonconforming-Ministers amuse and abuse the people when they speak of Spiritual desertions?  
Answ. Who so please to read Mr. Perkins his Cases of Conscience, Mr. Capel on Temptations; and Dr. Sibbs his Soul's Conflict; although they never saw Dr. Goodwin, may see a Child of Light walking in Darkness; And in such a case I would not send for, as Saul did, one to play upon at Instrument; Nor, with a Conformist Minister, that I knew, when his Daughter was in trouble of mind for her sins, counsel her to play at Cards; Or with another, how learned soever they be, send them to a Theatre; but either to some able Minister, or to Prayer & the Promises, advising them to put them in suit in the Court of Heaven; for 'tis God only that kills and makes alive, he wounds and he heals: In his presence is life; and his withdrawing or deserting of the soul, though for a time only, is as the shadow of death. If our blessed Lord on the Cross cried out, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? what so great wonder, if a Christian under the Cross, ofttimes complains, Why hidest thou thy face, and I am troubled? Is the Servant above the Master? If these things be done in the green tree, what shed be done in the dry?  
Quest. Are the Nonconformists Time-servers? Deb. p. 65.  
Answ. If so, why do they not serve the Times now, and themselves of the Times? Certain it is there are some now Nonconformists, whose consciences would not permit them to serve the Times in Bradshaws or O. Cromwel's days; divers who were turned out for not taking the Engagement, have since been outed for Nonconformity: They could not serve the Times then, and the Times will not serve them now. Can ye think we are such Bedlams as to choose sorrow and suffering, Bonds and Imprisonments, when we might so easily escape all sufferings, and have all, honourable employment in the Ministry, and some of us (perhaps) preferment and advancement like our Brethren that conform.  
Quest. Do not the Nonconformists call the Liturgy, Broth?  
Answ. I never did so, and I approve not any that do; yet possibly the expression might first be occasioned from that saying of Bishop Bonners, formerly mentioned upon our retaining some part of their Service-Book and Ceremonies, If they taste of our Broth, they may one day come to eat of our Beef. And here let me tell a story: I have heard that a conformable Minister invited a Friend, or Friends, to his House, to eat a piece of Collect-Beef; so he called Beef roasted on the Lord's-day, and kept usually cold in the house all the week; with allusion, 'tis to be supposed, to the Rubric, which ordinarily enjoyn● the Collect for the Lords day, to be read all the week after. I think this Conformists Beef, alike unsavoury expression with the Nonconformists Broth.  
Quest. Do not Nonoonformists generally reproach and revile the Conformable Ministers for their reading the Common-Prayer, and for their Grave and Decent Habits which they wear; and do not Nonconforming-Ministers teach them so to do?  
Answ. If any there be who scorn or mock at grave, godly, sober persons, for their reading the Liturgy, or for their Cassocks, Girdles, and the like, Take them Donatus for me. Suppose some few rude persons should slight a Minister for his Cassock, are there not others that mock and jeer at those that want the Canonical Habits? How many are there that preach not, except they have a fling at Nonconformists? Are not Nonconformists scorned and scoffed at on the Stage, from the Press and from the Pulpit? How are they jeered at, and made a May-game, by this in name Friendly (but really Unfriendly) Debate. 'Tis to be thought the Author of it did never seriously consider that saying, Non est major confusio quam serii & joci; and that other of my Lord Bacon, That it is an inlet to Atheism to bring the exercise of Religion into contempt, in the persons of sundry Preachers. Folly my part, I esteem it a point of serious and solid Godliness, to love, honour, reverence Piety, Gravity, Learning, and true Worth, whether in Conformists or Nonconformists: I look upon it as no good evidence that a man is of the higher form in Religion, to magnify and multiply the weaknesses or miscarriages of a few Dissenters, to the vilifying and reproach of all or the generality of them. As 'tis an argument of an unjust Steward, instead of an hundred to write fourscore or fifty, so is it of a false and bad Accountant, instead of twenty to set down fifty, fourscore, or an hundred. 'Tis the method and way of God, whom we ought to imitate, to overlook the failings of them that are sincere, to observe and note the little good he sees in his servants, and to pass by or overlook the evil: So the holy Scripture teacheth us in the case and catriage of Sarah to her Husband; of Rahab concerning the Spies; and of the Egyptian Midwives, Exod. 1. 'Tis not the part of a Bee, but of a Fly (we know) and that not of the best sort, to pass over a goodly Garden of sweet Flowers, and at last to light on a galled Back, or a heap of Dung. And 'tis but a dirty business to rake the Kennels, and throw dirt in the face of Passengers.  
Quest. Hath not the Author of the Debate done worthily, like a vigilant Watchman, foreseeing Danger to King and Kingdom, to alarm both? See Debate, p. 188, 189.  
Answ. Far be it from me to call the Author of the Debate, Doeg, Ishmael, or Haman; yet this I may say, (without hazard of Truth or Modesty) That there it false accusation, mocking and scoffing in the Treatise; and there may be something of Haman, or ambition, suspected to be in him, who would insinuate to his Majesty, that 'tis not for his safety, nor for the peace of his Kingdoms, to suffer these Jews, etc. When the bottom of all the uproar may be this, There is perhaps some Mordecai in the Gate or in the Parish, that will not bow down to him. And yet I dare boldly say this, That the Enemy could not countervail the King's damage, if all the Nonconformists were destroyed, or banished out of the Land.  
What a fondness, folly, madness is it to imagine, that men that pretend Godliness, practise sobriety, and who are themselves, and who have their Chests, their All, in the same Ship with his Majesty and the State, should go about to blow it up, or bore holes in it, to sink the Vessel, themselves and all together?  
It was the saying of Mr. Calamy (that discreet, honest, pious Mr. Calamy) before be died, That he had rather suffer under a lawful Sovereign, than be preferred under an Usurper. The Loyalty of the Nonconformists hath been experimented now above seven years together, who notwithstanding they have suffered the loss of their Places, Callings, Livelihoods, yet in patience possess their Souls, and pray for his Majesty and the Government with all their hearts and souls. As for the high Conformists, I may say to them, when they boast of their Loyalty, (considering the great Honours, Profits, Preferments they enjoy under his Majesty and the Church-Government) If you do good to them which do good to you, what than have ye? What do ye more than others? Sinners also do the same.  
Quest. Do not the Nonconformists do what they do, only to act a part, or make a show? If it be possible, to drain the People's Purses, pretending Conscience, but being really moved by carnal Reasons to their present Opinions, Professions, and Practices?  
Answ. Some have better (if any have carnal) reasons for their Nonconformity: A hundred, two, or three hundred pound per annum, may likely weigh something with some Conformists too, and might at least help to turn the Scales, when the Judgement was in aequilibro: And if there be not some weight in this with some, what's the reason that Ministers generally are more conformable than their Parishioners, who ●ave no such weight or bias upon them? As for ●heir Gains by their Nonconformity, I may say ●hey have not the fifth part of what they had formerly; no, not the Tithe of what the Conformists have: Some of them are forced to work with their hands, to turn to secular employment. Others, who cannot Work nor beg, if others did not work or beg for them, were in danger to starve.  
Quest. How could that man pretend Conscience for his Nonconformity, that condemned the Common Prayer, and confessed he had never read it over in all his Life?  
Answ. Perhaps though he had not read it all over, he might have read some of it, and liked not the taste of it. But I put him, (if such a one there was) with those hundreds that subscribed and gave their Assent and Consent to it, and to all and every thing contained therein, before ever they had seen the Book Authorised by Parliament; it being at that time, if printed, yet not sent down into the several Dioceses where they were to testify their approbation of it.  
Quest. Are not Nonconformists a sour and sad sort of Christians, a Generation not at all Sanguine, of Melancholy Tempers, morose, and but bad Companions?  
Answ. They are not all so, nor always so, and some of them not at all so: and as good Friends and Companions as the World hath any. The Fogs and Damps are in the lower part of the Air and Earth, and the Clouds are in the middle Region; all is pure and serene, and always so, in the upper Region. Christians of the lower Form, Conformists or Nonconformists, are liable ofttimes to be under Darkness, and under the power of Melancholy for a time: Yet as they advance higher, the Wether is clearer with them; and ordinarily the more perfect Christian, the more ●●ful Christian. Yet this may be said for weeping Christians, they may have Joy in their Hearts, when there are Tears in their Eyes; is the Sun sometimes shines whilst it reins. David, one of the greatest Mourners in Israel, witness his watering his Couch with his Tears, etc. was yet the sweet Singer of Israel. Heaviness endures for a Night, and Joy comes in the Morning. And though Christians sometimes deny themselves, yet God doth never deny them any lawful Delight; not did God ever make Godly Sorrow to destroy men's Bodies (though to help towards the Salvation of their Souls) I have heard that Old Mr. Dod observed, That if Godly Sorrow should have killed any man, it might have most probably been Adam, (the first and none of the least Sinners) because of his Apostasy from God, and Fall from Happiness, he and his Posterity; yet he lived 930 years.  
Quest. Do Nonconformists teach, That Christians must be ever speaking of God in conference with men, or with God in Prayer and Meditation? Must they have nothing else in their mouths in all Places, Times, and Companies?  
Answ. Mr. Shepherd of New-England adviseth not to entertain good thoughts, if they prove a hindrance to a Christian in his particular calling. And Mr. Carter, coming upon one of his neighbours, that was a Tanner, suddenly, and finding him taughing of a Hide; and the man excusing himself for being found so: the Minister answered, I desire Jesus Christ may find me so, when he calls for me, or when he comes, that is, busied about the works of my calling. I grant it is very commendable for persons who have ability and have time and leisure from business, and are in suitable company, to be often spenking one to another of Christ and of Heaven, and to stir up one another to Faith, Love, and Goodworks; God's People did thus in the Prophet Malachy's days, (Mal. 3.) and they that did so, are esteemed God's Jewels; but with us, at least by many amongst us, such kind of persons are as vile (though not so common) as the stones in the street. In other Religions they account of men the more and the better, the more religious they seem to be, and the more precise, strict and punctual they are in the observation of the Rules of their Religion: So the Papists, so the Turks. The Turks account all Fools to be Saints: and many amongst us account all Saints to be Fools, and the greater Saints the greater Fools.  
Quest. Are not Nonconformists more precise than wise, in not allowing themselves and others the delights of Plays and other divertisments?  
Answ. Dr. Heylin in his Geography observes that the Protestant Ministers in France are so straitlaced as not to allow of mixed dancing. The Nonconformists here are not all of this Judgement; they did not, do not use to inquire before persons approach unto the Lord's Table, whether or no, where, when, or how often they have danced? whether they go to see Comaedies, etc. I myself have been asked whether Dancing was lawful? I answered, Dancing was lawful; but whether mixed dancing was, they could tell better than I: If it was to them a motive or incitement to evil, to them it was unlawful, else I dare not condemn it as sinful; I will not make more sins than the holy Scripture, and the Light of Nature has discovered to be so.  
As for Stageplays, if they were reformed and regulated, so as to have no cursing or swearing, nothing of lasciviousness and wantonness, nothing of impiety or profaneness, no putting on of Apparel not belonging to be sex by the Actors, I should look on them as one of the best Recreations; only I would not have seeing of Plays be made a man's work or business, and that which should be but a divertisement be a man's whole employment: But as they are frequently made and acted (if we may believe reports) the must have stronger Champions than I to throw down the Gauntlet, or take it up in their defence. 'Tis well known the Ancient Fathers of the Church, and some reverend and learned men, Sons of the Church of England, have condemned them. Dr. Reynolds, Doctor of the Chair at Oxford, (and we are told a Conformist too) wrote against them; Dr. Andrew Rivet (Professor of Divinity, and Tutor to the Prince of Orange, and one that remembered the condition of our Sovereign, when in Exile, in his last hours and Prayers) is no friend to them; And Dr. Fern, afterward Bishop of Chester, offered to join with some Presbyterian Ministers, in declaring for the sanctification of the Lord's day, and against Stageplays in the late times. Yet as for those that go to see them, I do not, I dare nor therefore judge them no Christians, or no good Christians, because sometimes they are seen in the Theatre, though oftener in the Church: I must confess that that inference [I may see a Picture, therefore a Play] is but weak and dark, and but the shadow of an Argument: For those who condemn such Representations on the Stage, do the like in a Picture; that is, they damn lascivious & wanton Pictures, Books, & Songs as well as Plays. Again, the seeing of a Picture good or bad, hath not (I conceive) such a powerful influence on us, as the acting or personating on the Stage hath; We are not usually so affected by reading of a Book as by heating a Speech; the voice and action speak louder, and are oftener heard, than a dumb shadow or a silent picture. However, to conclude this matter, I think the Author of the Friendly Debate had much better have spent his time in hearing or seeing of Plays, than in writing of that Treatise; yea that he might as well, and to as good purpose have gone about to find out the wand'ring Jew (he speaks of) as to find Evidence to prove the generality of Nonconformist-Ministers neither good Subjects, nor good Christians.  
Quest. What then, do you think that the Author of the F. Debate was not well employed in writing these Books, and in discovering the vanity and childishness of Mr. T. W's Writings, or the falseness and dangerousness of Mr. W. B. his Books to the World?  
Answ. As for Mr. T. W. I have heard that he hath written divers useful Books; and I suppose in that Book or Books criticised upon, might have been found matter as well as phrases, and some great as well as little things: and if a man had a mind to carp and cavil at other men's works, as the Author of the Debate doth, he might pull some of the Fathers by the Beards, and tell them also they have written very childishly. All men writ not in the same (We and phrase, or in the like method; as all Cooks dress not the same joint of meat with the same sauce, and garnish not the dish in the same manner when they send it up. And some Readers and Auditors like one way of writing or speaking; some another; (else what need such variety of Gifts?) but all tend to the Edification of the Church. The Scholar is taken with one way of preaching or writing, the Citizen with another, the Countryman with another. Mr. Calvin, Mr. Farrel, Mr. Viret, all three, had their Excellencies, one in this way and manner, and another in that: If the Doctrine which is preached or printed, be sound and wholesome, what though the stile and phrase be not complete and polite? If thy meat be good and savoury, what though not served up in a Lordly Dish? I had rather have wholesome Food in an Earthen Platter, than Poison in a Golden Charger. I suppose all Conformists have not the same low opinion of Mr. T. W. if it be true which I heard, that one of them preached one of his Printed Sermons, and that a Citizen his Auditor, after Sermon went to him with a Thank you Mr. Watson for your pains.  
Quest. Doth not Mr. W. preach and print dangerous and poisonous Doctrines, such as tend towards Commotion, and disturbance of the public Peace?  
Answ. If he do, I leave him to apologise for himself, I will be no Advocate in such matters; And if he doth, he is condemned by those of his own way, I mean our Brethren of the Congregational Church; Twenty nine Ministers of that Judgement, as to Church-Goverment, being in and about the City, published a Renunciation and Declaration against the horrid Insurrection and Rebellion acted by Venner and his Confederates, to which they subscribed their Names: In conclusion of which, they declare as followeth, We cease not to pour out our hearty prayers for all sorts of Blessings, spiritual and temporal, upon the Person and Government of his Majesty, both in our Congregations, Families, and Retirements; and through God's grace, according to our Duties, shall continue so to do ourselves, and to persuade others thereunto; and to live quietly and peaceably, in all Godliness and honesty. And as to the Actings and Resolutions of Venner and his party, they say, The Instruments of Cruelty are in their Habitations. Cursed be their Anger, for it was fierce; and their Wrath, for it wat cruel. And we each one say, O my Soul, come not thou into their Secrets; unto their Assemblies, mine Honour, be not thou united: But let God divide them in Jacob, and scatter them in Israel. Mr. Bridge was not in Town then, which may be supposed the Reason we find not his Name amongst the Subscribers.  
As for W. B. whether his Writings be so faulty as they are charged to be in the Debates, I cannot tell, having not read them; but a Conformable Doctor told me, that he had searched them, and that the Author of the Debate had dealt disingeniously in his quotations of him, etc.  
Quest. May not every whit as much be said for the Papists, why they should be tolerated, as to the public exercise of their Religion, as for Nonconformists? Do not they profess all Loyalty to his Majesty, and declare against all Rebellion?  
Answ. The Papists depend upon a foreign Power in Ecclesiastical Affairs, superior (as they think) to his Majesty. And it was subscribed by twelve Bishops in Ireland, as follows: Their Religion is superstitious and idolatrous, their Faith and Doctrine erroneous and heretical, their Church in respect of both, Apostatical. Whereas the Nonconformists, whether Presbyters or Congregationists, agree with the Church of England in the Doctrine of Faith and Sacraments, differ not in any substantial part of Religion from her. What the Papists practice hath been, how dangerous to the Civil Peace, the History of England in Q. Elizabeth's days, can tell us. That 'tis impossible for any Nation to be free from Troubles or Treason, so long as they suffer Jesuits amongst them, saith Watson in his Quodlibets. And that he and his Order were not so good and loyal as they pretended, may be guessed from hence, that he himself was afrerwards executed for Treason.  
Moreover Papists cannot, when they have power, long live without persecuting Protestants, saith a Reverend Doctor: Hence may appear that we see K. H. III. of France, stabbed and lamned, because he would not persecute them enough. So the Answer to the Papists Apology, p. 21.  
As for Quakers, they may seem to be the very Spawn of the Romish Emissaries, proselyted by them, but made more dangerous to Magistrates, and all Civil Society, by this one Principle that they hold, viz. That they ought to be guided and to act, not by the Scripture, nor according to the command of the Civil Magistrate, or Spiritual Guides and Pastors; but by and sudden Flash or Light within them. I am not satisfied to have a hand in the Execution of the Sanguinary Laws against Papists, yet should be loath to try how Sanguine or good natured they would be, if they had power in their hands to execute the Writ De Haeretico comburendo. If we may say of them, (as they use to say of Fire and Water) They are good Servants; I am sure 'tis as true, That they are but bad Masters.  
Quest. How can we agree to live quietly with these Nonconformists? Are they not so much divided from us in their Judgement, that they divide from us in their Language also; and in fine would bring all things into a Babel of Confusion? Cont. p. 1.  
Answ. The greater number of them, I presume, speak as others do; and conform to that ordinary phrase, Well, I thank God. If any when enquired of about their Health, say, I am well, through Mercy; they do but as the French Protestants do; they are surely few in comparison that say so commonly; and I do not remember one Minister that useth to say so; they that do, possibly have recovered from some sickness, or escaped some danger, which occasions them to use this expression: But if you will be critical, some think it a sign of a greater humility to say, I am well through mercy, than the other, I am well I thank God; However it is not so liable to exception as to say, I am well ye faith, as I have heard that some Conformists do, although Bishop Saunderson doth not approve of that language in common discourse. We do not hold it unlawful to use the name of God in our Salutations as Boaz did; and can say and pray, God save the King as hearty as yourselves. I know ●o Nonconforming-Ministers that hold it unlawful to teach Children their Catechism & Prayers lest they should take God's Name in vain. And yet I must have leave to say, that a reverend Bishop doth reckon that we sin against the third Commandment, by an irreverend and customary mention of God's great and glorious Name upon trivial occasions; and a learned Doctor in his Exposition of the third Commandment, makes it a duty not to use the Name of God but with great reverence. See Dr. Pat. Catech.  
Quest. Are Nonconformists most guilty of breaking the third Commandment in the main sense? See Cont: p. 4.  
Answ. Mr. Case, Mr. Edward's, and the London Ministers (cited by the Author of the Debate in his Continuation) all prove they were very tender of the breach of an Oath, desirous to keep far from it themselves; and to save others, with fear plucking them out of the fire; and the present ejected and dejected estate of the Nonconformists may testify, that they are such as fear an Oath. The Presbyterians are bold to say in one of their Papers to his Majesty, That the Obligation of the Covenant upon the Consciences of the Nation, was not the weakest Instrument of his Return. As to your citations out of Mr. John Goodwin and Mr. John Lilborne, I say there lieth an Exception against the Witnesses in the Case; as I suppose you might say, if their Testimonies were produced against the Hierarchy, Liturgy, and Ceremonies.  
Quest. What may be the cause the Author of the Debate is so fierce against the Protestation taken by the Parliament before the War, and which his late Majesty excepted not against when taken, although he was then at Whitehall?  
Answ. The true Reason may be this; because the House of Commons put out an Interpretation, that by the Doctrine of the Church of England, which they promised to maintain, they meant only the Doctrine in opposition to Popery and Popish Innovations, and did not thereby oblige themselves or others to the maintenance of the Discipline and Government. If that had been in, 'tis to be thought it would have gone down as easily with men of his way, as the Et-caetera Oath did, concerning which the Historian gives us this account; That some Bishops pressed it on Ministers before the day required to take it by the Canon, and enjoined them to take it kneeling; a Ceremony not exacted or observed in taking the Oath of Allegiance and Supremacy Full. Hist. 6.11. p. 17.  
Quest. What is to be thought of the Continuation of the Friendly Debate?  
Answ. It seems to be an unfriendly Continuation of Debate and Strife, contrary to the Act of Indemnity, and to be a continued breach of that Law in the very design of it; Else, why, contrary to the Act of Oblivion, doth he rake up the memory of what was written and preached before and in the Wars, and that sometimes by persons very little considerable for their parts, learning, or place amongst their own party? and why doth he charge those things upon the Nonconformists of this Generation?  
Quest. Were not Nonconformists even from the beginning of Nonconformity generally very peevish, impudent, censorious, and disobedient to Authority?  
Answ. The Old Puritans (if we believe the Historian, and he was a Conformist and a Dignitary) were humble, meek, patiented, hospitable, charitable, as in his Censures of, so in his Alms to, others. Dr. Full. H. 6.11.220. And if we believe the Author of the Debate, the Ancient Nonconformists were (many of them) men of ●ober and peaceful principles, and did submit to Authority, and were enemies to Separation; such were Mr. Ball, Mr. Gear, and all those who were the Authors of that grave and modest Confutation of the Error and Sect of the Brownists, or Separatists, published by Mr. Rathband.  
Quest. Have not some of the High Sons of the Church changed their Principles in relation to King and Parliament?  
Answ. Time was when they pleaded strongly, Where the Word of a King is there is power: But lately when his Majesty published a Declaration about Ecclesiastical Affairs, etc. then their note was changed; That was no Law (they said) and the King could not do it without the Parliament. And yet then the House of Commons gave his Majesty thanks for doing it. Time was when a Long Parliament was accounted by them a grievous Disease, and now it is the great Remedy. Time was when they cried down all Parliaments; now they cry up this. Whence comes this change? I answer, The case is altered, quoth Ployden.  
Quest. Is this good Logic, or solid reasoning; Mr. jews Hughes, Mr. Vicars, Mr. Bridges did write thus and thus in the Wartime; Ergo, or therefore the Nonconformists at present are all thus and thus?  
Answ. I deny the Consequence, as the Author of the Debate would, and well might. If a man should argue thus: Mr. White set out a Book of a hundred (which he called) Scandalous Ministers that were ejected by the Parliament: If we grant some of those hundred were scandalous, therefore all that were ejected in those days, were scandalous. Or thus: They say one Wallis of Gloucester published a Book of scandalous words and deeds of perhaps twenty or thirty now Conformable-Ministers; therefore if some of them were guilty, all that conform are faulty in like manner.  
Quest. Is it an argument or evidence of eminent Godliness, and of extraordinary Charity, to charge thousands with Errors or miscarriages of half a dozen or half a score?  
Answ. No. God, who is Love itself, would have spared Sodom for the sake of ten righteous persons. And surely our enemies when they are serious and sober, and their passions not predominant, both of old and of late, might find (if they would look about) more than ten righteous persons, godly, meek, modest, charitable and peaceable among the Nonconformists. In the beginning of the Reformation, there were a sort of Anabaptists risen up in Germany, and did horrid things at Munster and elsewhere; was the fault therefore in the Reformation? Although the Papists use to charge it upon the Protestant Religion, that it is the Spring and Fountain of Sedition and Rebellion where it is received; Yet both We, and our Brethren Conformists, are able to wipe off that foul aspersion; and so are the Nonconformists of these days, the dirt that is thrown in their faces by the aforesaid Author. If any have called Conformists Egyptians, Babylonians, Canaanites, Antichristians, or the like, let it not be charged on those that disapprove and condemn their say. If any speak in the Clouds, and you fancy they challenge to themselves a power by Prayer to rain down Blood upon us, let it not be charged upon them that live quietly and peaceably in the Land, & teach men so to do by their life and doctrine, if they preach at all, If there be any man that designs by preaching or otherwise, to throw the Nation into War and Blood again, I wish he may prophesy in Sackcloth; And when he pretends to pour out Vials of Wrath, his threaten may be like water spilt upon the ground.  
Quest. Do Nonconformists look shortly to shut Heaven, and turn Waters into Blood? C.  
Answ. Mr. Parker of New-England printed a Book on Daniel's Visions and Prophecies, Anno 1646. and according to him there will be no shutting of Heaven, no turning of Waters into Blood, at least not putting off of the Witnesses Sackcloth (which saith our Author (Contin. of Fr. Deb. p. 142.) Mr. W. B. now expects) till the year 1856. when we shall be all, Conformists and Nonconformists, at peace in our Graves. If Mr. W. B. discourse of such Prophecies in his Sermons, I assure you he and one more are all that I can hear of, that meddle to preach on such subjects. I am told, Those that preach in private, preach Faith and Repentance, and meddle not with matters relating to the Government either of Church or State. And I was lately ask a prime Nonconformist, and an able Preacher, what he said to that Objection in the Debate, that the Nonconformists did not preach up Obedience to Magistrates? He very zealously and confidently replied, They did it, and that more than the Conformists themselves.  
Quest. Do not the Conformists, some of them medule sometimes with the interpreting and applying phrases and notions they meet with in the Revelations?  
Answ. Bishop Williams, Bishop of Ossory, wrote a Book to prove the Long Parliament Antichrist; and he or another made Oliver Cromwell Antichrist; and Dr. Fuller in his Church-History, writes of one that observed that the Covenant had in it the Number of the Beast, One hundred sixty six; consisting, as he said, of just so many words.  
Quest. Were not the old Nonconformist● much better than those in our days? C.  
Answ. Their Nonconformity did not cos● them so much as it doth us; and in the times they lived, they were likely accused as we are now: When we are as they now, really (as well as Legally) dead, it may be we may have a good word also.  
In Queen Elizabeth's days the Nonconformists were not more pliant or complying, than they are now. There were not the Tithe of the Ministers then ejected, to what since. There were more bitter Books put out then against the Hierarchy, than are now. If I mis-remember not, the Nonconformists gave the first Charge then, but nowadays we are alarmed and assaulted once and again, and no man appeared publicly to defend our Principles or Practices. We are loaded with Reproaches, and many grievous and heavy things laid to our charge, and no man for a long time in our name in print so much as pleaded Not Guilty, and offered to Traverse the Indictment, or put himself upon the Trial of his Country. Say not therefore that the Nonconformists of former times were better, more peaceable, more modest than these.  
If any man, though in the heat of his passion, and in the heat of the War, have called the Conformists Gentiles, Uncircumcised, Philistines, Egyptians, Babylonians, the Brood of the Serpent, and have denied pardon of sin and Heaven to them because of their Conformity, I think he ought to repent of such hard say, and uncharitable Censures of his Brethren and Fellow-servants, and to bring forth Fruits meet for Repentance for the time to come, viz. To lay a Law of Love and Kindness upon his Tongue and Pen, as long as he lives. 'Tis to be hoped the number of those that had such unbridled Tongues and Pens, was very small; the instances you bring of such intemperate heats, and irregular zeal, are taken out of the Furnace of the late War; and that too, after the fire had been raked up in Ashes by many years' peace, and fully quenched by the Act of Oblivion and Indemnity. If we had a mind to recriminate and retaliate, we could repeat much foul Language, and bitter reviling speeches, by some of your way against us also. But these are not the methods of Peace. I desire therefore that all such matters may be forgiven and forgotten on both sides, and remembered only or chief by the Anthors and Abettors of them, that they may, if they have not already, repent of them more than in Dust and Ashes.  
Quest. Did not the Scots in Ireland write to their Brethren in Scotland to send over Ministers to them, in such language, as if they thought there had been but little of Religion amongst them in that Country, during the Reign of the Bishops? C.  
Answ. There might be many dark Corners in Ireland for want of Oil to maintain Lamps, preaching Ministers I mean, such as should be like John Baptist, burning and shining Lights amongst them. The Scotish Presbyterians, if they be like their Brethren in England, had a Reverend esteem of Archbishop Usher, and the Bishops of Ireland, for the Irish Articles of Religion, and their zeal against the toleration of Popery there. Who or what was the cause of the scarcity of able Ministers, except want of Maintenance, and fear of the Irish Papists, I know not; but confident I am, the Bishops of Armagh and Ardagh were not, if any other Bishops.  
Quest. Have not the Nonconformists a high conceit of themselves, and those of their own way, and a low esteem of all others for Religion and Godliness? Doth not Mr. Baynes say, There is more of God and his Religion in some one Congregation of a silenced Minister, than in all the Bishop's Families in England? And doth not Dr. Ames approve that of Mr. Baynes?  
Answ. I have heard that Dr. Ames had so much charity for Corvinus, that he said, He did not doubt but to meet him in Heaven: Why then Mr. Baynes passeth, and Dr. Ames approveth such a smart Censure on the Bishop's Families, I cannot tell. Yet 'tis not to be imagined that Mr. P. Baynes meant that the Bishops had no Religion in their Families; If so, I cannot commend his Charity. I think this is a sure and clear truth, That neither Bishops not silenced Ministers can be said to have all Religion or no Religion amongst them and their Followers. I hold a Monopoly in Religion as unlawful, as some have thought those in the State illegal. Never theless it must be confessed, That the Articles of Visitation, or the Injunctions of the Great Apostle St. Paul, are Canonical: A Bishop must rule his own House well; for if a man know not how to rule his own House, how shall he take care of the Church of God? 1 Tim. 3.4, 5. He that writes the Life of Archbishop Usher, tells us, That he had four times a day Prayer in his House; that there was an hour spent in Catechising once a Week, viz. every Friday; that he had on the Lord's day in the Evening the Sermon which he preached in the Morning, repeated in his Chapel by one of his Chaplains. This was the way to have a Church in his House. All Bishops do not write after this Canon, nor this Copy. I know a Minister, a learned, sober, and zealous Conformist, that after he had been with his Diocesan, at his House or Palace, to subscribe; came home with a sad heart, and professed it was not for any thing he had done, but for the profaneness and disorder he observed in the Bishop's Family amongst his Servants. 'Tis to the great commendation of the present Archbishop of Canterbury, that which is reported of him, That he keeps a good House; that is, in Bishop Goodman's Dialect, he spends Church-Means in a Churchly manner: And that he keeps a well-governed House, allows not Debauchery; if a Servant be drunk once, there's no place for a second Error. If so, it must be acknowledged that there is Discipline in that School, where nothing saves but a primum tempus.  
Quest. Doth his Majesty's Coronation-Oath to protect the Bishops and their Privileges to his power, (as every good King in his Kingdoms in right aught to protect and defend the Bishops and Churches under their Government) hinder his Majesty, that he may not regulate the Jurisdiction of Bishops, or remove the controverted Ceremonies out of the Church?  
Answ. Hear Mr. Geree, one whom the Author of the Friendly Debate calls a discreet Presbyterian: The King, saith he, is sworn to maintain the Laws of the Land in force at his Coronation; and yet 'tis not unlawful after to abrogate any, upon the motion, or with the consent of his Parliament. The King is bound to maintain the Rights of the Clergy, whilst they continue such; but if any if their Rights be abrogated by just Power, he stands no longer engaged in that particular. If any Privileges of the Clergy, prove prejudicial or contrariant to the Laws and Liberties and Privileges of the People, which the King is bound to maintain, the King may lawfully relieve his other Subjects, by passing such Bills as may take away such Privileges. His Majesty's Oath first made to his Subjects in general, being lawful, cannot be voided or superseded by his after-Oath to the Clergy. And as for the Laws about Ceremonies, they are not like those of the Medes and Persians, unchangeable; but may be changed, and the Rites and Ceremonies now in use, may be abolished by the same power by which they were here established.  
Quest. Did the Nonconformists generally make Addresses formerly to Oliver Cromwell and Richard Cromwell?  
Answ. For my own part, I never made any Address to O. C. or R. C. And the only Address that the Presbyterian-Ministers of the City of London, made to O. C. was for the saving the Life of Dr. Hewit. As for Addresses to R. C. divers Now-Conformists at well as Nonconformists, did join in them, as they did also generally to General Monk. for a Free Parliament in Order to his Majesty's Restauration.  
Quest. Are not all Laws once made, rigorously to be put in execution necessarily, and especially Laws concerning Ecclesiastical Affairs?  
Answ. Laws that are lawful and necessary to the Esse or Being of the Church or State, are doubtless to be put in execution; not so those always, that tend to Order and Decency. Supreme Governors may, upon just occasion, forbear inflicting the Penalties upon Offenders against penal Statutes. Yea Excommunication, that Great Church-Censure, may be suspended, when the major part of a Church are infected with some Error, or are guilty of some scandalous offence, the end of Laws Ecclesiastical and Civil, being the peace of Church and State; where the execution of Laws may occasion more harm than good, more disquet than peace, there the supreme Power may for a time wave the exact and rigorous execution of them. His Majesty in his Declaration to all his loving Subjects, Decemb. 26.1662. published by the Advice of his Privy Council, conceives the power of dispensing with the Penalty (upon those who living peaceably do not Conform) to be inherent in him. Some Laws are made in terrorem, like Rods in a School. 'Tis not intended that every Offender and every Offence should be presently punished, according to the utmost severity of them. The Common Law in some Cases seems to need a Chancery, to moderate the rigour of it, lest that summum jus, prove summa injuria. He who will not allow his Majesty to save some by his Prerogative, who are cast by the Law, robs him of a principal Flower of his Crown, his very Crown and Glory, and that is, His CLEMENCY.  
Quest. Were not the Old Puritans, as they used to call the Nonconformists, Enemies to the King's Supremacy?  
Answ. In a Treatise of Learned Mr. Bradshaw, who wrote of Justification, there is a Protestation by them made of the King's Supremacy, in these words: We hold and maintain the same Authority and Supremacy in all Causes, and over all Persons, Civil and Ecclesiastical, granted to Queen Elizabeth, to be due in full and ample manner, (without any limitation or qualification) to the King, and his Heirs and Successors for ever. Neither is there, to our knowledge, any one of us but hath been most willing to subscribe and swear unto the same, according to form of Statute. And we desire that those that shall refuse the same, may bear their own Iniquity.  
Quest. Were not the Nonconformists in former times disobedient to the Laws? And did they not refuse to conform out of humour and stubbornness, and not our of Conscience?  
Answ. The same Mr. Bradshaw in the same Treatise, protests in their Name, as followeth: We never refused Obedience to any haves or Commandments of the King or State whatsoever, but only to such as we have proved, or are ready to prove, if we might be heard, to be contrary to the Word of God. And we are ready to take our solemn Oaths before the Throne of Justice, That the only Cause of our refusal of Obedience to those Canons of the Prelates, for which roe are at present so extremely afflicted, is mere Conscience, and a fear to sin against God. And if by due form of Reasoning, we may be convinced in our Consciences of the cannery, we are as willing at any Subjects in the Realm to obey and conform.  
Quest. But is it at all material what the Nonconformists swear? are not our present Nonconformists guilty of taking God's Name into their mouths backward and forward, and never blush? Vide Contin. p. 18.  
Answ. It was the conscience of an Oath, and a care to prevent the great guilt of Perjury, that made Dr. Hill, one of the late Assembly, when Vice-Chancelor of Cambridge, and the University in those days, to insert those explanatory clauses in the Oaths of those who took degrees,  
Viz. Jurabis te haec omnia & reliqua Academae Statuta (quatenus ipsa ad te spectant) vel fideliter observasse & observaturum, vel monitiones, correctiones & paenas dictorum Statutorum transgressoribus incumbentes, sine contradictione quacunque, humiliter subiisse aut subiturum, ni sialiter per gratiam per Acaedemiam concessam dispensatum tecum fuerit, sicut Te Deus adjuvet, etc. and again, Senatus Cantabrigiensis decrevit & declaravit eos omnes qui monitionibus, correctionibus & paenus Statutorum, Legum Decretorum, Ordinationum, Injunctionum & Laudabilium Consuetudinum hujus Academiae trangressoribus, quovis modo Incumbentibus humiliter se submiserint, nec esse, nec habendos esse perjurii reos. By which clauses 'tis manifest, that either active or passive obedience to the Statutes, Orders and Customs of the Universities did save from the guilt of Perjury. And confident I am that 'tis the fear of an Oath that is the chief cause why many suffer the loss of their Live at this day.  
Quest. Is there not a good riddance of so many Mr. Scruples out of the Church? And is there any want of able Preachers up and down in the Country now they are ejected?  
Answ. My Lord Bacon in his days, thought there was a scarcity of able Preachers, and yet there were not the tithe perhaps of Ministers silenced then, to what are now. And be thought then that the silencing of the Ministers for their Nonconformity was a punishment of the People rather than of the Minister. He conceived then also that such Subscriptions might have been forborn as occasioned the silencing of divers of those Ministers. Cons. ab Eccl. Aff.  
Quest. What if there were many places made void by the ejectment of Nonconformists, may not those places be well filled by Conforming-Pluralists?  
Answ. My Lord Bacon saith, In case the number of able Ministers were sufficient, and the value of the Benefices were sufficient, than Pluralities were in no sort tolerable. And as for Nonresidents, except it be just of necessary absence, he saith, it seemeth to be an abuse drawn out of covetousness and sloth; for that men should live of the Flock they do not feed, or at the Altar whereat they do not serve, is a thing that can hardly receive just defence. And to exercise the Office of a Pastor in matter of Word and Doctrine by deputation is a thing not warranted. So he in his Treatise dedicated to King James about Ecclesiast. Affairs. For my own part, I think the Polygamy of the Fathers or the Patriarches of old, as excusable as the Spiritual Polygamy of many of the Sons of our Church. And to serve Cures of Souls merely by Proxies and Deputies (besides that it may seem to strengthen the Pope's plea for Universal Pastors) whilst so many stand idle in the Marketplace, able and willing to take care of those Souls, is a thing I shall not take upon me to justify.  
Let me add this also, that 'tis one Objection which hath been formerly made against the Liturgy, That it occasions an ignorant, dumb, and a lazy Ministry, but were it not for Pluralities and Nonresidency and insufficient Live, there might be no place for such objection.  
The Author of the Debate tells us in his Continuation, p. 383. that at first the chief promoters of stinted Liturgies were renowned for their constant and unwearied preaching every day in the week, and someeimes twice; and as probably this was one thing that advanced the credit and esteem of Liturgies in former times: As I am persuaded one great cause why many do not esteem of the Liturgy so much now, is, that so many great Conformists and sticklers for it are Pluralists and Nonresidents; and divers of them either preach not at all, or very seldom; and then too, some of them preach against Preaching, and saw down the branch of that Tree upon which they stand so high above their Brethren. And on the other side, those who scruple some things in the Liturgy and Ceremonies, are such constant and zealous Preachers, and that when Bonds and Imprisonments abide them for their so doing.  
Quest. But is it not indeed the Bond of the Covenant, the Scottish Covenant, wherewith our English Presbyterians have bound their Souls, the great or only Cause that makes so many Nonconformists?  
Answ. The Covenant mentioned was not the cause of the War; the Battle at Edge-hill was fought before the Covenant came into England. And whereas the Covenant was entered into in Forty Two, and Forty Three, there have been Nonconformists ever since Bishop Hooper, and the Reformation in King Edward the Sixth's days. There are some amongst the Covenanters that can conform to the Liturgy, and submit to Episcopal Government. And the greater part of Nonconformists Preachers at this day, never took the Covenant.  
Quest. What is the reason that divers Nonconformists read Logic in private Houses? Is not this contrary to their Oath takes in the University? Cont. p. 10. edit. 4.  
Answ. I have consulted as able as any in the Universities (and by their Offices as likely to know as any) about the matter, and am told, That the Oath there prohibits the setting up of another University in Opposition to the Universities, and Reading in order to the taking Degrees elsewhere. The words are at Oxford, They shall not solennes Lectiones resumere; which doth not make Dr. Busbie perjured for initiating his Scholars some time in Logic before they go to the University. Nor the several Professors at Gresham-Colledge, who read as solemn Lectures surely, as a Nonconformist doth in a private house. Besides, I hear but of one Nonconformist that at present doth teach Youth in that manner privately.  
Quest. What security can his Majesty and the Parliament have, that Nonconformists will not (under pretence of Conscience or Covenant) seditiously endeavour an Alteration of Church-Government; but that they will live quietly and peaceably in their places.  
Answ. They are ready to give the ancient Legal-Security, the Oaths of Allegiance and Supremacy; and that is more than the Papists will do, and as much as is required of the generality of the rest of the Nation, notwithstanding their having taken the Engagement in the late times, which yet many Presbyterians, now Nonconformists and Ejected Ministers, would never do, though some of them lost their Places for their refusal. Moreover many of them since have taken an Oath not to endeavour any Alteration of Government in Church and State, and yet are not trusted to preach publicly, much less to enjoy any Ecclesiastical Benefice. And the rest that scruple some words or phrases in that Oath, are yet ready, besides the Oaths of Allegiance and Supremacy, to swear that they will live quietly and peaceably in their places, and not under colour or pretence of the Covenant, or any pretence whatever, endeavour by force, or seditiously and tumultuously, any Alteration of Government in Church and State.  
Quest. Is the Act of Uniformity, and the Oxford Act, to be strictly and rigorously pressed upon, and executed on all transgressors?  
Answ. If it be, then what will become of many Conformists who use other Rites and Ceremonies than what are by Law required? and of them who use other Forms of Prayer then are there prescribed; and of all those Ministers that do not read the Common-Prayer either publicly or privately, morning and evening; and so those Lecturers who do not monthly read their Assent & Consent? etc. And as for the Oxford Act & Oath, I have heard from a very learned person, a Conformist, that the Bishops themselves come within the compass of it, as many as have not assented and consented, etc. as oft as they came within five miles of their Sees, or any their Corporation. This I say, not to bring the Bishops within, but to bring others out of the reach of that Act; or rather to incline, if it nay be, our Fathers and Brethren to use their interest with his Majesty and Parliament to remove those Laws which are a Partition-wall betwixt the Conformist & Nonconformist.  
Quest. But are not the Nonconformists sinners and transgressors of the Divine Law, as oft as they withdraw from actual communion with the Church of England, being (as many of them confess) a true Church?  
Ans. Many of our learned Doctors hold Rome to be a true Church; as a Woman is a true Woman, though an Harlot; and a Man a true Man, though overspread with Leprosy. And yet being we cannot actually hold external communion with them, without either subscribing to many false Tenets, or joining in a corrupt and Idolatrous Service, we withdraw from them without sin. Our withdrawing is not to be charged with sin or schism, although too we were the minor part who withdrew, and against the determination of a pretended General Council. And I believe it would be a hard matter to prove that many of those Meetings, which are now commonly called Conventicles, want any of the essential requisites to a true Church, and yet do not think themselves Schismatics for not holding actual communion with them, because not countenanced by the Law. And if a Legal Establishment be absolutely necessary to the being of a true Christian Church, than there was no true Church at Rome till Constantine's days; which I suppose you will judge very unreasonable to assert.  
Quest. Is it possible there should be Unity without Uniformity in Rites and Ceremonies, etc.  
Answ. Yes. There is Unity amongst the Protestant Reform Churches beyond the Seas, that follow Calvin, and yet divers forms of Prayer, and divers Rites. The Author of the Debate will not take it well, if a man should not say, there is Unity at home amongst Conformists, and yet the Cathedrals and Country-Parish-Churches differ in some Rites, and in their mode of Worship; and in the Parish-Churches there are diversity of Ceremonies and Usages in the Worship of God. In some Churches they stand up at the Hymns, in others not; In some they read the Hymns and Psalms Minister and People antiphonatim, in others not: In some, in most, they read the Prayer for Christ's Catholic Church, if at all, before Sermon, but I know where 'tis constantly read after. And it is well known that none boast more of Unity than the Romanists, and yet in several Countries they have several Rites, Customs, and Privileges: and in England before the happy Reformation, the Service was ad modum Sarum, and ad modum Bangor, different in divers Churches.  
Quest. Is it not necessary to appoint the same Vestures and Gestures for the Worship of God, to avoid difference and confusion?  
Answ. There is no Gesture or Ceremony prescribed in the singing of Psalms, and yet People generally are bare and reverend in that exercise.  
The late Canons in 1640. leave Bowing towards the East of Altar indifferent; and would not have those that do it, to judge those that do it not; nor those that do it not, to judge those that do it. Now what greater inconvenience would follow, if the same moderation and liberty to practise differently, were used as to the Cross, Surplice, and Kneeling at the Sacrament of the Lords Supper?  
If there must be absolute and universal Uniformity in the Worship of God amongst the Worshippers, than all must alike have their Faces one way, must wear all Garments of the same fashion and colour. In the late Times, when the Liturgy and Ceremonies were disused, there were not a quarter of those private Meetings that have been since. The number of them that separated from the Public Worship, were very small in comparison; I suppose not ten to an hundred. The Author of the Debate, I guess, and hundreds, if not thousands, of Conformists, did not hold themselves bound, notwithstanding the Laws for Liturgy and Ceremonies, to absent themselves from the then Public Worship, and assemble privately, that they might uphold Uniformity in Forms of Prayer, Rites and Ceremonies: Whence we may reasonably conclude, That they thought God's Public Worship might be carried on without Uniformity in these things: And again, That the omission of things required by Law, is not judged so great a sin as is by them pretended.  
Quest Did not Presbyterians decry all Separaration, and refuse to tolerate Independents? See Cont. p. 224.  
Answ. The Presbyterians both old and modern, are against Separation: They deny that they separate from you; for upon occasion they join with you in Ordinances, and if you remove some things wherewith your Worship is clogged, they would joyfully communicate constantly with you. The present partial and temporary withdrawing, as to some Acts of Worship, is not to be charged with Schism. If you hold forth communion with your Church as in the Apostles days, with a Liturgy sufficiently corrected without Symbolical Ceremonies, without such Oaths, Declarations and Subscriptions, they will come into your Bosom, though you not only cast them out of your Lap, but thrust them out of your House, and shut the Doors upon them. As we justify the Church of England from Schism, notwithstanding our Separation from Rome; so the Nonconformists will endeavour to justify their withdrawings in some Acts, and for a time only; by reason of the terms of Communion imposed on them. That they are for Reformation, not Separation, may be hence concluded, That in a late project for Peace and Agreement, this was one Proposition given in by the Presbyterians themselves, That whosoever should be capable of any Employment, should profess to hold Communion with the Church of England, and to the uttermost of his power to promote the Peace and Happiness thereof. And when there was a difference betwixt Presbyterians and their Brethren, commonly called Independents, formerly, there was a Conference before a Committee of Parliament betwixt them, in which the Presbyterians (as I am credibly informed) offered either to give or take: that is to say, They would take the Establishment, and allow their Brethren of the Congregational-way a well-regulated Toleration; or let their Brethren take the Establishment, and allow the Presbyterians such a Toleration. And one of the chief of them, when the London-Ministers waited on his Majesty at the Hague, when discourse was about Ecclesiastical Affairs, earnestly moved his Majesty, that he would please to think of a way to indulge them a Liberty, though they should not be comprehended in the Public Establishment, as it was then hoped the Presbyterian would have been.  
In brief, the Presbyterians disclaim Separation; they are willing to have Union and Communion with the Church of England, upon Christian and friendly Terms: And they desire the like Liberty and Toleration from the Bishops, that they were willing and ready to have showed to their Brethren of the Congregational Way: Yea, they would bless God and our Governors, if they might have the like Favours and Liberties that Dr. Gunning, Dr. Wild, Dr. Hid, and others the Now-Conformists had in former times.  
Quest. If the Presbyterians are willing to conform to a Liturgy, and to this Liturgy when sufficiently corrected; yet what hopes is there that ever there should be any Alteration or Reformation of it, which will satisfy or please them, so as to use it?  
Answ. Yes, there is such a draught already made, to the great content of the chief of the Presbyterians; and this done by three Reverend persons, all Conformists: And which I hope may be produced, when ever Authority shall please to command it.  
Quest. Would it not be accounted a weak thing to yield or condescend, though never so little, if this might be a means to cement and solder us together again.  
Answ. It was the prudence of the ancient Church to satisfy the Joannites, who had kept Conventicles apart from the Church for thirty years, being disgusted at the dishonour done to John Chrysostom their Bishop or Pastor; and this the Church did, by restoring his honour after he was dead. Socrat. Eccles. Hist.  
Quest. Why should the Church of England remove the Ceremonies which she hath retained since the Reformation? May she not thereby disgust and offend the Romanists, to please the Nonconformists, which they call Puritan rather than Protestants?  
Answ. These Ceremonies were at first retained and continued when others were cast out of the Church in hopes to bring the Papists to a compliance with our Church: But Archbishop Usher, as he that writes his Life informs us, upon occasion declared his Judgement concerning them, That experience of many years hath showed that this condescension hath rather hardened them in their Error, than brought them to a liking of our Religion; this being their usual saying, If our Flesh be not good, why do you drink of our Broth? If the Church stick close to the Ceremonies, she is not like to gain our Adversaries the Romanists to our Communion; if she lay aside the Ceremonies, she may gain thousands and ten thousands of our Brethren to our Church again. That they may do thus, God grant that the same mind might be in all our Bishops, that was in Christ Jesus, the chief Shepherd and Bishop of our Souls; that they may love and feed their Sheep, and be ready to lay down their lives for their Sheep; and then their Yoke will be easy, and their Burden light. Or that was in the blessed Apostle Paul, on whom was the Care of all the Churches; who professeth of himself, I became all things to all men, that by any means I might win some. Or else that was in this Godly Archbishop Usher, of whom 'tis recorded in his Life, That though he conformed himself, yet he desired that his Majesty would not impose the English Ceremonies on the Irish Church; saying, If I had all men's Consciences in my keeping, I could in these disputable Cases give Laws unto them as well as myself: But 'tis one thing what I can do, and another thing what other men must do. Since the Ceremonies be things (saith our Church) in their own nature indifferent, and yet by some held superstitious and unlawful, it seemeth to fall within the Apostles Rule, which is, That the strong do descend and yield to the weaker; if we will hearken to the Counsel of the Lord Chancellor Bacon, in his Considerations touching the Church of England.  
Quest. Doth the holy Scripture caution us against grieving our Brethren, as well as against offending of them, so as to occasion them to stumble and fall into sin?  
Answ.. 'Tis our duty not only to prevent out Brothers fall, but his fears; and to keep his heart from sinking, as well as his feet from falling. To the weak became I as weak, that I might gain the weak: I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some, 1 Cor. 9.22. 'Tis the part of a good Shepherd to carry the Lambs in his Arms, and gently to lead the Ewes that are great with young; and of Nursing Fathers and Mothers, to be tenderhearted and tender-handed towards Babes, towards weak and young Children. If it be said, We must not grieve or vex the Magistrate: I answer, 'Tis true, we must not; but if the Magistrate please to remove the Law; where there's no Law, there's no Disobedience; and then the Offence ceaseth: And where there's no Offence committed by the Inferior, there should be no Offence taken by the Superior; or when there is none given, there should be none taken. The things are alterable in themselves. The Magistrate is a Minister of God for good; and if he shall please to remove every stumbling-stone and grieving-thorn out of the way to the Church, and out of the way of Obedience, How shall God and his people bless him? All the power that the Church hath, it is to edification, and not to destruction; and there's a far greater necessity of Unity, than of Uniformity: 'Tis a great deal better not to make Canons, than to make such as we foresee will be broken by thousands, and that under a pretence of Conscience, and who are serious, sober, civil people in their Lives and Conversations.  
Quest. What may be thought the readiest way to make the Bishops work easy, and his person to be beloved?  
Answ.. 'Tis I think to use Moderation, to rule with Love, and not with Rigour; and that notwithstanding some young Counsellors, some Hotspurs, may advise them, as of old the young men did Rehoboam; when their Brethren come to them, and say, Your Forefathers (or your Predecessors divers of them) made our Yoke grievous: Now therefore make ye, we pray you, the grievous Service of your Forefathers, and their heavy Yoke which they put upon us, lighter, and we will serve you: To say to them, Our little Finger shall be heavier than our Forefathers Loins; and now whereas they did lad you with a heavy Yoke, we will add to your Yoke: Our Forefathers chastised you with Whips, but we will chastise you with Scorpions. The deeper you lay the Foundation in Humility, and the broader in Charity, the higher you may probably build your House, and it may likewise stand the longer. A well-grounded Jus Humanum, may stand longer than a high-built pretended Jus Divinum. And Reason shows, saith one, that Episcopacy will stand more firm in conjunction with Presbytery, than by itself alone. There be two circumstances; saith my Lord Chancellor Bacon, wherein I could never be satisfied; the one, the sole exercise of their Authority; the other, the deputation of their Authority. For the first, he saith, surely I do suppose (and I think upon good ground) that ab initio non fuit ita. And that the Deans and Chapters were Counsels about the Seas and Chairs of Bishops at the first, and were unto them a Presbytery or Consistory. And again, we see that the Bishop of Rome (Fas est & ab hoste doceri, and no question in that Church the first Institutions were excellent) performeth all Ecclesiastical Jurisdiction, in Consistory, with advice, that is, of the Cardinals or Parish-Priests of Rome. And hereof again (saith he) we see divers shadows yet remaining: as that the Dean and Chapter proformâ chooseth the Bishop, which is the highest point of Jurisdiction.  
Again, The same Author tells us, that the Bishop is a Judge, and of a high nature; Whence cometh it that he should depute, considering that all trust and confidence is personal and inherent, and cannot or ought not to be transposed? surely in this again ab initio non fuitita: But it is probable that Bishops when they gave themselves too much to the glory of the World, and became Grandees in Kingdoms, and great Counsellors to Princes, than did they leave their proper Jurisdiction, as things of too inferior a nature for their greatness; And then after the similitude and imitation of Kings and Counts-Palatine, they would have their Chancellors and Judges.  
Quest. Is the Author of the Fr. Debate so extraordinary zealous, as he pretends, for the honour of our Governors and Government in the State?  
Answ. See pag. 50, 51. of the Continuation, where he doth insinuate, or more plainly inform the Nation, that not only Nonconformists keep Conventicles, but that Mass is said, and that the Papists take the same liberty in the exercise of their Religion as the Nonconformists do in theirs. And that little or no notice is taken of any Drunkards, Sweaters, or Blasphemers. If he had pleased, 'tis to be thought he might have found great sins amongst the Clergy, little taken notice of, and not much punished in Ecclesiastical Courts. If he had done like Shem and Japhet, to have rather endeavoured to cover his nakedness, he might have been blessed by them; or else, if he will needs have his jerks at Nonconformists, though it light partly on his and our Superiors in the State, to have gone on, and have whipped the Buyers and Sellers in, out of the Temple also.  
Quest. Do the Nonconformists teach the people railing language, particularly to call all they like not, Antichristian and Babylonish? Vid. Contin, p. 155, & 266, etc.  
Answ. Time was when Reverend and Renowned Mr. Vines (that lost the Mastership of Pembroke-Hall in Cambridge, because he would not subscribe the Engagement; as did also Dr. Spurstow the Master of Katherine-Hall, and Mr. Young of Jesus-Colledge for the same cause preaching before the Parliament, said, Henceforward he should take Antichrist for a better man than ever he thought him to be, there were so many good things charged upon him. And another Presbyterian, now a Nonconformist, preaching to the same Auditors, preached that Antichristian and Babylonian, were terms sooner imputed or charged, than proved.  
But if the Nonconforming-Ministers or People were yet ignorant, and to seek for scoffing and reviling language, they might have a Dictionary of such hard words out of the Friendly Debate. If there be in Private-meetings that use railing and reviling speeches (as too many too often have is public Congregations) I would rather advise people to sit quietly at home, if they will not go to Church, than to go or step out of doors to learn their language. I do not love a biting tongue; and I take a black mouth to be as venomous in a man, as 'tis accounted wholesome in a dog. And if there be any printed Book wi●h such railing speeches or phrases in them, (I will promise you) it shall never have my Imprimatur, without an Index expurgatorius in the next Edition.  
Quest. Is the Divinity of the Nonconformists a Phrase-Divinity? and in case their Books and Sermons are not filled with foul language, is there any thing besides fine words, and new phrases in them?  
Answ. There was something besides words in the Old Nonconformists, witness the writings of Mr. Dod, Mr. Ball, Mr. Hildersham, Mr. Bradshaw, etc. And doubtless there is matter, and that good matter and sound speech, that need not to be ashamed, in the Writings of Nonconformists of this Generation, witness the Books written by Mr. Baxter, Dr. Manton, Mr. caryl, Mr. Allen, Dr. Owen, Mr. Pool, etc. they hold to Scripture-expressions, and to the terms of sound words, which they have received from the most serious solid pious Bishops and Doctors of the Chair, Professors at home and abroad in former times; yea, the Nonconforming-Presbyterians and Congregational Ministers profess to agree with our Articles of Religion of the Church of England, in all things concerning the Doctrine of Faith and Ceremonies: And is all this but Phrase-Divinity!  
The Author of the Debate, and divers other of the present Conformists may as justly be charged for new Divinity, new minted words in Divinity, new phrases and modes of expressing themselves in Sermons and Writings, and these too less conform to the language of the holy Scripture, our own Articles and Homilies, the Harmony of Confessions of the Reformed Churches, and our ancient Bishops and Doctors. The Author of the Debate, though he seems to be the Bishop's Advocate, yet his Writings show him more an Episcopian than an Episcopalian; and 'tis easy to see from what forge they have their new Divinity and new Theological Dictionary.  
Quest. Were not the Nonconformists the cause of the strange and new Doctrines and Opinions, and of fantastical words and phrases in preaching and writing?  
Ans. I grant the taking down the old Mound or Hedge, and not setting a new one in the room, was an occasion that many erroneous persons, like wild beasts, did get into the Vineyard, and that some strange Doctrines, Fancies, Phrases and Whimses were vented in the Times of War and late Confusions; but I say, that these things are not to be charged upon the Presbyterians: for if they had had power to their principles and purposes, they would doubtless have raised up a Mound or Fence against such Errors, Fancies and Follies, as strong as that the Parliament removed. I have heard it observed, that of all Churches, no Church hath had fewer Heresies and Heterodoxies spring up, or at least prosper in it, than the Church of Scotland, and that this was acknowledged by King James.  
Quest. Were all that took the Covenant bound thereby to endeavour to introduce the Government of the Church of Scotland into England, because they obliged themselves to maintain and defend Religion in the Church of Scotland, and to reform Religion in the Church of England! Vid. Contin. p. 168.  
Answ. No. They engaged only in their places and callings, and so far as lawfully they might to preserve Religion in the Church of Scotland against the Common Enemy, notwithstanding which the Scots might reform aught that was amiss or defective, with his Majesty's leave and consent, in a legal manner. And the English Covenanters were not bound to model the Church-Government in England according to the pattern of the Kirk of Scotland, but according to the Word of God and the best Reformed Churches. Whether Scotland, or Holland, or Geneva, etc. was the best Reformed Church, was not determined. And the English were not engaged in their places and callings, and so far as lawfully they might, by the Covenant, to follow the Model of any one of these, or all the Reformed Churches, in any thing disagreeing from the Word of God; and in case a primitive Episcopacy (that is, Church-Government by a Bishop, with a Presbytery as his Counsellors and Assistants) prove most agreeable to the Word of God, they were bound to set up, (only in their places and callings, and so far as lawfully they might) that Government in the Church of England: Notwithstanding what the Earl of Bristol, when Lord Digby, hath written in his Letters to Sir Kenelm Digby, viz. He that would reduce the Church now, to the Form of Government in the most primitive times, should not take, in my Opinion, the best nor the wisest course, I am sure not the safest; for he would be found pecking towards the Presbytery of Scotland, which for my part I believe, in point of Government, hath a greater resemblance than yours or ours, to the first Age of Christ's Church. But whatever was the meaning of the Imposers or Takers of the Covenant in those days, I have heard an eminent Person, a Doctor that had taken it, though a Nonconformist, declare, That he was not bound by it to endeavour any other Reformation than what he had been obliged unto, if he never had taken the Covenant; that he is not bound to use any unlawful or seditious means, or endeavours, to bring about a Reformation. That the Law of the Land is the Rule to judge by, what means or endeavours are unlawful and seditious.  
Quest. Do not the Presbyterians play fast and lose, and turn with the wind? Was not the time once when they held Ruling Elders to be Jure Divino, but now they hold no such matter?  
Answ. I believe the Scottish Presbyterians were and still are of that Judgement, that Ruling Elders are Jure Divino; but I knew few English, if any, that held that Office so, save only in a large sense; as many Episcopalians now hold Bishops to be Jure Divino, that is, a lawful Government, not repugnant to the Word of God. However, 'tis said, and that by no mean Scholar, That Geneva did not first institute those Officers, but only restored them. And I have read that it was acknowledged by a great Prelate, That the Church had in every Church certain Seniors, to whom the Government of the Church was committed. Surely they are as tolerable in a Church, where the Supreme Power thinks good to establish that Order, as are Chancellors, Commissaries, etc. But in case that some Presbyterians of old, held them of use in the Apostles days, this alone (without an Institution and an Injunction to perpetuate them) doth not make them, or any other Ecclesiastical Officers, unalterable; for we see that the Office of Widows is laid aside in the Church, notwithstanding.  
Quest. Did not the Presbyterians wholly lay aside the use of the Lords Supper? And was it not for want of Ruling Elders?  
Answ. They celebrated the Lords Supper in London, and that too in some Churches, once a Month; and frequently at Oxford; and I suppose in many other places: Possibly the expectation of a settlement might hinder the Administration of that Ordinance for a time in many places. By'r I knew a Parish where it was a long time disused, though desired, because the Parishioners did not provide (though oft urged unto it by the Minister) decent and necessary Utensils for the Celebration of it.  
Quest. Do the Nonconformists decry all use of Reason in Theology?  
Answ. They use frequently Reasons in their Sermons. Indeed they allow Reason but the second place in Divinity; to Revelation they give the first. Reason and Philosophy they make to be the Handmaids, but Divinity they honour as their Sovereign Lady and Queen. Reason is the Counsellor, but Revelation is the Lawgiver. We say the Light of Reason is as the Light of a Glow-Worm, or of a Candle, or (if you will needs have it) as the Light of the Moon; but the Light of Divine Revelation, is as the Light of the Sun, when it shineth in its full strength. 
Dr. T.  And with a reverend and learned Doctor, we allow the use of a Candle, although we would have it snuffed; and when it is set up in the house, we would not have the Window shut, either to keep our, or at least to darken the Light of the Sun. We prefer feeding on Manna, before feeding on Acorns and Husks; the Commands of St. Paul, before the Precepts of Plato; the Mass of Gold in the Mine, before a few pieces of Silver scattered here and there in the Studies of Philosophers.  
Quest. Do the Congregations of those that descent from the established Worship, consist mostly of Army Saints?  
Answ. I have heard one that hath reason to know upon many Accounts better than the Author of the Debate, say, That there is scarce a fifth person of those that meet privately that was engaged in the late Differences. And that the greatest part of the late Army are at this day Members of Parochial Churches, is an even Wager.  
Quest. Do the Arminians or Calvinists come nearest to the Doctrine of the Church of England?  
Answ. The profound pious and learned Doctor Samuel Ward, that was the La. Margaret's Professor of Divinity in Cambridge, (whose Determinations are set out by the great pains and care of the Right Reverend Seth Lord Bishop of Sarisbury) in a Sermon of his Ad Clerum, and dedicated by himself to the University of Cambridge, testifies, That as the whole Church of God ever since St. Austin, so in particular the National Church of England, and the University of Cambridge from the Reformation, and all the Professors, except only one Baro, were against Arminius his Tenets. And this Baro within two years was forced to leave the Chair, by the Power and Authority of Archbishop Whitgift.  
Illud etiam verè adjicere possum plus uni Augustino jam veterano & in ista causa versatissimo tribuendum esse quàm centùm Corvinis, Grotiis, Vorstiis, Bertiis, Tilenis & id genus, recentioribus Dogmatistis. Accedat & illud coronidis loco, Augustino semper ad baesisse, hac exparte, Ecclesiam Universalem ab ejus temporibus Ecclesiam item Anglicanam, ab initio Reformationis, etc.  
Quest. Is the case of the Donatists and the case of the Non-conformists alike?  
Answ. The Donatists, as they had no cause in regard of the Faith (by reason of any dangerous Doctrines or Practices imposed on them) to cease from communicating with any part of the Catholic Church; so they divided from the whole Church, with the breach of Charity, condemning it for no Church, and drawing the Communion wholly to themselves. The Nonconformists do not condemn the Church of England as no Church; they do not confine the Communion to themselves; they humbly pray a Reformation of some things which they conceive amiss, and are willing to have Communion with them as Parts of the Catholic Church (saving the Practices wherein they differ) they leave them to their Liberty, and desire a Liberty for themselves to serve God according to their Consciences. The Presbyterians shown their Charity in their earnest endeavours to save the life of Dr. Hewit an Episcopal Dr; for which purpose, they joined in an Address to O. C. the only Address they ever made unto him; Neither Presbyterians, nor Congregationists, charge the Episcopalians for being Schismatics, because they do not communicate with their Congregations, and yet they look upon themselves as true Churches of Christ, and both for Doctrine and Discipline, to come as near the Scripture-Patern as themselves. They offered to Unite and Reconcile with the Episcopal-Clergy upon Christian terms, before His Majesty's Return, and since. As for out Brethren of New England, they are of Age, let them answer for themselves. As for our Congreational Brethren at home, I lately heard that Dr. Goodwin should profess to hold Communion even with the Lutheran Churches. And Dr. Owen professeth against all Impositions; and that 'tis his Judgement, That the Episcopals and Presbyterians be left to worship God as they judge in their Consciences best; That for his part, he judgeth no man for his Conformity, provided he be not a Persecuter of those that cannot.  
Finally, The Presbyterians for themselves desire much rather a Reformation, or well stated Comprehension, than a Toleration; and are against Schism and Separation, truly so called, as much as any; which they have sufficiently evidenced by their constantly declared Opinions and Practice: They would be glad to see the day, when being eased of burdensome Impositions, they might have opportunity to manifest this their sincere desire of Union and Coalition with the Church of England.   

A Postscript to the Author of the Friendly Debate.  
SIR,  
YOu have dealt with us, as the Jews did with our Blessed Saviour; blindfolded us, & smitten us, & in effect bid us Prophesy who it is that smote us. Some ghesses have been who you are by the roughness of your hand, and the smartness of the blow; I have not taken upon me thus to shoot in the dark, and yet pretend to hit the Mark. Nor will I go about to pull off the Vizor you put upon your own face, but to wipe off the dirt which you have cast on ours. To this purpose I pray you, after these premised Reflections by me on some Passages in your Friendly Debate, etc. you would be pleased to reflect upon yourself, and to ask yourself these few Questions.  
Quest. 1. Whether or no you might not with as much reason, and more charity, have produced Testimonies out of the Large Annotations, Printed in the year 1651. to clear Nonconformists from temporising, and conniving at Sacrilege, as you have done the Omissions you charge them withal in the Edition of 1646, to prove them guilty. And sure I am, if you had pleased to search, you might have found in the Last Edition, their dislike of Sacrilege in their Notes on Prov. 20.25. It is a snare to the man who devoureth that which is holy. That is, say the Annotations, to apply it, or take it to his own use, which was appointed to Gods: yea, to go about to do it by enquiring how the Vow might be made void. As also on Acts 5.1. in the case of Ananias and Sapphira, they declare plainly and fully against Sacrilege as followeth. The scope of this History is to show how odious to God that perfidiousness is, which counterfeiting Sanctity, would impose upon God, as if He saw not what men do; for otherwise (Ananias giving a part, had been commendable) so great a mischief is Hypocrisy, so dangerous the perversion of an Holy purpose, and the withdrawing of things Consecrated to the Church's use (though by himself who gave) that the Sacrilegious perished by detaining a part of that whole which he would seem to give.— If he that taketh from the Church but a little of that which was his own, be Sacrilegious & struck dead for the same, what punishment will the same Divine Justice lay on him, who by fraud or violence taketh away the Possessions wherewith other men endowed the Church?  
And upon Rom. 2.22. to that Question which some make, why the Apostle doth vary the crime, saying, Thou that abhorrest Idols, dost thou commit Sacrilege, and not rather dost thou commit Idolatry? They give this Answer for one, That the Apostle useth an aggravation, as if he should say, Thou that abhorrest Idols, dost thou commit a worse sin, to wit, Sacrilege?  
Quest. 2. Whether Dr. Sherlock in his Visitation Sermon (pag. 7, 8, 9) Preached at Warrington May 11.) and Printed at London with an Imprimatur, June 9 1669. charging all Conformists, who pray before and after Sermon, any Prayers besides those of the Public Liturgy, as guilty of sacrilegiously breaking their Vows and Promises, may not as justly be urged against Conformists, as Mr. Case his Complaint against Covenant-breaking, be urged against Nonconformists, to prove them transgressors of the 3d Commandment, in the main sense and meaning of it.  
Q. 3. Whether it may not as reasonably be desired, that the Conformists should be agreed about the Rule and Standard of Conformity, before others be pressed to come up to it; as to require that the Nonconformists should be all agreed what will satisfy them before any condescensions may be desired for, or granted to them. Are the Old Canon's Law, or are they not? Are the Canons made in the Synod 1640, Law or not? Must we read Second Service at the Communion Table, or must we not? Must we pray before Sermon, or must we only bid or exhort the People to Pray?  
Q. 4. Whether they are not to be reputed Nonconformists, who go beyond the law, & do more than is required? who use other Rites & Ceremonies, than the Act of Uniformity enjoins, as well as those that fall short of doing some things by law required?  
Q. 5. Whether it may not well become our Spiritual Fathers and Brethren of the Church, to yield a little in things indifferent to the weakness of those (suppose they be in an error) who really scruple the lawfulness of them, and who are ready to take a solemn Oath that they would Conform, if they could but be once convinced, that by their Obedience to man's Ordinances, they should not disobey the Laws of God.  
Q. 6. Whether what was said, done, or Printed in times of War, aught to be remembered and produced in Evidence in times of Peace, after a most solemn Act of Oblivion and Indemnity?  
Q. 7. Whether it was seasonable, when His most Excellent Majesty, and the Parliament, at the last Session, had under Consideration some Expedient for Union and Reconciliation, for a Minister of the Gospel of Peace & of a professed large Charity to Print and publish such Books as might rationally be thought might prove to be Obstructions in the way of Accommodation?  
Q. 8. Whether there be not as much evidence of Charity, Modesty, Meekness and Moderation in Mr. Corbet his Two Pieces, as in the Three Parts of the Friendly Debate?  
Q. 9 Why you are pleased to charge the Nonconformists with so much rigour & severity against Dissenters formerly, without remembering that the Archbishop of Armagh, and Bishop Brownrig were Public Preachers in the Inns of Court in those times; or that the present Bishop of Worcester, then Bishop of Oxford, enjoyed a good Parsonage; and that the greatest part of the now Conformists in England, had public Employment in those times?  
Q. 10. Whether you think that the late Assembly of Divines at Westminster, whereof Dr. Reynolds, Dr. Twisse, Mr. Gattaker, Dr. Tuckney, Dr. Arrowsmith, Mr. Herle, Mr. Vines, Mr. Anthony Burgess and others were members, consisted of Persons of so inconsiderable and contemptible Parts, Piety or Learning, as is represented now a-dayes? And, whether the present Nonconformists, such as Dr. Owen, Mr. Baxter, Dr. Manton, Dr. Conant, Dr. Bates, Dr. Goodwin, Dr. Dillingham, etc. are really such Ignoramusses as some of your Zelots would have the world imagine them to be?  
Q. 11. Whether Dr. Heylins' History of Presbytery doth not wound the Reformation through the sides of the Presbyterians?  
Q. 12. Whether if the Nonconformists Confessions in their Prayers, may be produced in Evidence against them, How the Sons and Daughters of the Church will appear Innocent, who are taught after every Commandment read by the Mister, to say and pray, Lord have mercy upon us, and incline our hearts to keep this Law?  
Q. 13. Whether if His Majesty and the Parliament, would be graciously pleased to leave the use of the Three Ceremonies of our Church as indifferent, as the Canons in 1640 do the Ceremony of Bowing towards the East, or Altar; That Rule of Charity might not be still observed, namely, That those which use these Ceremonies should not despise them that use them not; and that those who use them not, condemn not those that use them?  
Q. 14. Who hath thriven most and prospered best, the Spaniard with his Inquisition, or the Hollander with his Toleration?  
And now having desired you to ask yourself these Questions, Give me leave to reflect upon myself too, and to consider what I have done. I say not, What I have written, I have written; but rather, if I have written any thing which shall he truly interpreted Seditious or Schismatical, or which is justly offensive to any of my Superiors, Inferiors, or Equals in Church or State, I humbly beg Pardon, and Conclude; desiring you and all my Brethren, Conformists and Non-conformists, to join in that good Prayer, Give Peace in our time, O Lord.  
FINIS.