Plain Dealing: IN A DIALOGUE BETWEEN Mr. JOHNSON and Mr. WARY his Friend, a Stock-jobber, and a Petitioner against the E— I— Company, about Stock-jobbing, and the said Company. MR. Wary. Mr. Johnson, your humble Servant. Mr. Johnson. My Friend Mr. Wary, I am glad to see you, what Business brings you to the Exchange this Evening? its rare to meet you here. Mr. W. Truly so it is, I seldom gad abroad, but the fine Wether, and Desire to hear how it goes with Lymerick, hath forced me out this Afternoon. M. J. You find the Sweet of it, you know the Proverb, Keep thy Shop and thy Shop will keep thee. Mr. W. You are pleased to be merry Sir, but what means that Crowd? Mr. J. They are Stock-jobbers. Mr. W. Are they so, I have heard much talk of them, and are they the Men? Mr. J. Yes, and many of them now have their bellies full, and their purses empty. Mr. W. Why I thought there had been great Gain by it, a Neighbour of mine one Mr. Hazzard, if you know him, told me he had got several thousands of Pounds in that way. Mr. J. But had he the wit to keep 'em. Mr. W. Truly to that I cannot answer, but by your Query I suspect not, and the rather, observing for three Weeks or a Month past he hath been very Dull to what he was for some time before, I remember about three Months ago, ask him how Trade went, he uppishly replied, Hang Trade, all Trade is an Ass to Stock, there's more to be got by Stock in a Week, or sometimes in a Day then by other Business that ever he was acquainted with in a Year, did I think he'd stand pilling straws or thrumming caps behind the Counter, no not he, for besides East India, Africa, and Hudson's Bay Stock, there was now Linen Stock, and Paper Stock, Copper Stock, and Venetian Metal Stock, Glass Stock, and Wrack Stock, Mill Stock, and Dipping Stock, and almost a hundred other Stocks, for which either Patents was granted or procuring, whereby a Man had room sufficient to employ his Money had he ne'er so much, to great Advantage, and for his part he would sell off his Goods and get in his Debts, and was resolved to have a touch at them, but I perceive then that the Tide is turned. Mr. J. Turned, Ay that it is with a witness, and if it be not the Case of your Neighbour Hazzard I am sure most of the others had better followed the Business they had been bred to, then meddled with matters they understood not, All covet all lose, is a Motto most of them may assume, and how they will answer their folly to themselves their Families and the Public they have now time to consider. Mr. W. I profess it was beyond my understanding, neither did I think it possible such vast Estates could be got in so short a time as I have heard. Mr. J. Nay it may be as the matter hath been managed, and it's very apparent here hath been some great Estates very lately got by Concern in Stocks, yet for the most part, what discerning and crafty men have poquetted, the inconsiderate upon a balance of their Accounts will find wanting, and the Brokers for Buying and Selling and the Book-keepers for transfers have fleeced them all. Mr. W. But pray Sir, how come the Stocks to advance thus? The E. Indian, African and Hudsons' Bay Companies, are equally affected by the War with private Traders, their present Exportations and Importations are attended with greater Risks, higher Fraight, and new Duties, their Stocks pay Taxes, etc. One would think these Considerations should rather lower them. Mr. J. You are i'th' right Sir, but Profit or Loss made or sustained by these Trades, or the Advantages and Difficulties that attend them, are not at present the Motives which govern their Actions, but they rise and fall as the humours of the Buyers increase or abate, or from a necessity some are under of Buying or Selling to answer Policies and Contracts they are unwittingly drawn into by subtle and designing Men; and thus the Linen-Stock which may amount to upwards of twenty thousand Pounds, while the Drapers are generally of Opinion there will be loss by all that's made, was carried to three hundred thousand, and hath since returned to sixty or seventy thousand, not to say any thing of the Wrack Stock, Mill Stock, or some other Stocks, of which a five hundred or a thousand part was sold upon the Exchange for fifty or sixty Pounds, when never ought appeared or was proposed to demonstrate their meriting so many Pence. Mr. W. But still I cannot conceive how Policies or Contracts can be contrived as thus to influence the Stocks or the Value of their Shares and Actions. Mr. J. I'll inform you, without doubt you have observed, if not experienced, that a great demand for a Commodity inhances the Price, and a glut at Market sinks it. Mr. W. Yes that I have. Mr. J. Well then, suppose Praemio, (they are generally a certain number of Guineas) are given out by A. B. to C. D. and E. F. etc. to oblige them to deliver him such a parcel or number of Shares of such or such a Stock, as exceeds the Quantity in their own or in the hands of others, that are willing to sell, to complete the Parcel they must give higher Prices, this little rise incites others to Buy, who being under like Engagements are afraid of a greater: now A. B. by selling makes his Advantage, again suppose A. B. gives Premio's to C. D. E. F. etc. to oblige them to accept from him in a limited time such a Parcel or Number of Shares of this or that Stock, in pursuance of this Contract, every thing that can be thought of to discredit the Stock is given out by him and his Emissaries. C. D. and E. F. in prudence sell to make room for what they are to receive, others sell out of fear, almost all offer Guineas for Security, in this hurry A. B. by buying makes his Advantage. Mr. W. But is there any so simples as to take Guineas upon either of these Accounts, for I think I rightly apprehend it. Mr. J. Too many, Gold is so bewitching. Mr. W. But for aught I see by your suppositions, they are loser's by it. Mr. J. They are so generally, and make good St. Peter's Saying, They that will be rich fall into divers temptations and a snare, but yet these Intrigues are tolerable to those Cheats acted or attempted by some, who having whole Stocks or the whole Number of Shares of a Stock in their power, gave or would have given Guineas for the refusals of certain Parcels thereof, when they knew the takers could not comply with such Contracts but upon terms which they would afterwards please to permit them. Mr. W. Certainly Sir, none that walk here have been guilty of such Villainy, it's worse then Padding. Mr. J. It's too true, and the great grief of many a by-stander to observe our Royal Exchange, the most renowned in the Universe for its Structure, and the daily Concourse of Merchants there, in the exercise of their noble and laudable Professions, become a Theatre for such vile Practices. Mr. W. I am equally troubled to hear it; sure these Men never consulted Jeremiah's Prophecy. Chap. 17. Ver. 10, 11. Where it's recorded, I the Lord search the heart, I try the reins, even to give every man according to his way, and according to the fruit of his do, as the Partridge sitteth on eggs, and hatcheth them not: so he that getteth riches and not by right shall leave them in the midst of his days, and at his end shall be a fool. It's much the Government doth not take cognizance of these matters. Mr. J. Without doubt it doth Sir, I am sure several great Men at t'other end of the Town are very sensible of the mischievous Consequences, these Practices must have, and will endeavour a Remedy next Session of Parliament. Peace, here comes a Stock-jobber and a Petitioner against the East India Company. St. J. We interrupt you Gentlemen, are you not busy you are so close together? Mr. J. No really Sir, my Friend, Mr. Wary, and I, have been almost half an hour talking about Stock Jobbing. St. I. A pleasant Subject: And what I pray, is your Opinion of it? Mr. J. Truly, we are agreed, it is (as at present practised) a Public Grievance: and we was just come to consider, what course a Parliament will take to remedy it. St. I. Hold, before we talk of a Remedy, why is it a Grievance? Mr. J. Why's deceitful, disorderly, and excessive Gaming a Grievance; but because among many other inconveniences that attends it, it occasions loss of precious Time, and the ruin of Estates, so says the Act, Car. 2. Cap.— 7. Now the Royal Oak Lottery, and Groom-Porter's Table, come far short of this; the Wagering about Taking Towns gins to swell, but Stock-Jobbing exceeds by many degrees. St. I. I believe for Sum it outdoes the Oak, the Table, and the Wagers, put them all together: but then I deny your consequence, for Time's improved, and Estates are got by buying and selling Stock. Mr. J. Ay, as they are in the other three Exercises; to day A. gains, and B. loses; to morrow B. gains, and A loses; and thus their Times and Estates are employed, and neither are any other ways serviceable to the Public, then as at present they maintain a parcel of Brokers and Book-keepers, whose Provision, Poundage, and Transfers in process of time will consume all: Or do you account Time improved, or an Estate got, when you see a cunning Man grown rich by the ruin, in part, or in whole, of half a dozen, that have as much Honesty, but fewer Brains than himself. Searching Mines, Improving Land, Exercising Manufactures, Foreign and Domestic Traffic, are Noble Erterprises, which denote a private Man public spirited: by these the Poor are employed, the Revenues increased, the H●●our and Reputation of the Nation's enhanced, and his Success affords equally satisfaction and applause: whereas, if one Stock-jobber get an Estate, another is undone, the Curse of the Sufferer accompanies it, and himself is despised by all Lookers-on: here's no Poor employed, nor Customs or Excise paid, nor no— St. I. Nay, hold, that's a mistake; they must be very ignorant that know not, or have not heard of our Foreign Trade, the vast Customs our Companies pay, the Manufactures and Poor our other Stocks promote and employ. Mr. J. Tush, tush, I am not arguing against your Companies, nor their Stocks, but against Stock-jobbing; and I'll convince you, that this as now practised, is of itself sufficient to destroy, at least will greatly prejudice any Company or Stock it relates to: Suppose I, and ten or twenty Men get a Patent of Incorporation for the Sole Use or Management of any Trade or Manufacture, which we extraordinarily well understand, and was morally assured it would give us 10, 20, or 30 per Cent for our time, and Money employed therein, this is a sufficient encouragement for us to attend, and use our utmost endeavours to conserve and improve it; or if we part with some Shares or Proportion to others, while the present or prospected advance or improvement measures the Price, there is no harm; but if by any Trick or Intrigue the Price of Actions or Shares are excessively raised (in some Stocks they have been twenty for one, in some more) beyond their value, the consequence is the obstruction, if not ruin of that Trade or Manufacture, at least of that Company and Stock: for what thinking Man will not sell himself out of a Stock, which for seven or ten years to come, succeeding to his wish, will not produce him more for his Interest than to day 〈◊〉 may have; and supposing all of that mind, the prime Adventurers and Undertakers that understand the Affair, are exchanged for others, who besides their Ignorance, perceiving their Error (that they must work for a dead Horse) are discouraged from proceeding, and many of the Stocks that have so alarumed the Kingdom, what ever's been pretended, were formed by the Concerned, but as Traps to ensnare the weak and inconsiderate. St. J. I have patiently heard you, but how'll you prevent all this? Mr. J. A Parliament's Wisdom will not want ways. St. J. I thought so, it's easier to wound then to cure, if there's such fools you talk of, themselves are the sufferers, sure a Man may dispose as he will of his own without Offence to any body, and for Buying and Selling Stock as I think it cannot, so it ought not to be prohibited or restrained. Mr. J. You talk merrily Sir, we are not about an absolute Prohibition, only a Remedy against the present Practice; and I have heard others of your mind, that it is impossible to be obtained, but I have a different Sentiments which anon I'll discover, only first let me tell you, a man cannot in all cases do with his own what he pleases, is not Trade regulated by Law, a Man cannot export or import sundry Commodities though his own, a Man cannot melt down the current Coin of the Kingdom though his own, and what means our Statutes against Gaming (as before) Monopolies, Jobbing, Forestall, etc. But to square private Actions to the good of the Community, my Tongue's my own, yet if I swear I must pay a Shilling, I can carry all my Effects into a Field and set Fire to them, but should it become a Practice, assure yourself Care would be quickly taken to prevent it. St. J. What would you have a Fine or a corporal Punishment inflicted upon the Transgressor's, it must be one of them. Mr. J. There's no necessity for that neither, suppose some such Duty as Five Pounds per cent. or Share to the King was laid upon Transfers in all Stocks incorporated by Charter that have a Public Seal, in my Opinion that alone would cramp Stock-jobbing. Petit. I profess I believe so too, if it was so ordered that it could not be evaded, how Mr. Stock-jobber looks upon it. St. J. I'll vow that never entered my thoughts. Petit. Nor mine. Mr. W. Nor mine. Mr. J. Nay it might be easily secured too, every Member's taking an Oath and entering into Bonds never to suffer another's Stock in his Name, nor to Buy nor Sell Stock without its being actually transferred, and allowing upon Account the five per cent. or Share. St. I. It would infallibly do the Business, but it would crush several Stocks to nothing. Petit. I am sure it would quench the Thirst after new Patents. Mr. J. Gentlemen, it would only effect Stock-jobbing, the Stock themselves would be benefited thereby, for the concerned in any that have or shall have a being, would then be obliged to prosecute what hitherto has only been pretended, and a noise made of. Viz. In employing the Poor, and promoting Manufactures, or else it will appear they petition for Patents with no other Design, then having them to make Profit by selling them. St. I. But five per cent. will soon eat up the Profits and who then will be concerned in any public Stocks? Mr. J. Right, at the present rate of buying and selling, but Sir, a Patent or Charter would never be sued for, unless the concerned proposed greater Advantage by such a joint Trade or Manufacture, then can be made of their Money and Time in ordinary and common ways, we'll suppose only ten per cent. per annum gain, it may be twenty and so to fifty, now a single five per cent. when a man disposes of his Interest is no great Duty, if a Proprietor immediately sells, he cannot complain, he hath his humour, if he's an old Standard he'll have reaped the Advantage he may afford it; (and I think the interested in all Patents of this nature, should be uncapable of selling till a certain time is elapsed, sufficient for Proofs and Experiments of the Design, that People might know for what they part with their Money) but yet I do not say it must be just five per cent. or share, it may be more or less as the nature of the thing requires, and probably it may be better imposed upon the Buyer than Seller. St. I. Well let'm do as they please, let's call another Cause. Petit. Then pray you Gentlemen, what do you think of the East India Company? Mr. J. Sir, it is very honourable in my esteem, I wish I could say the same of some of its Members and their Actions. St. I An Arch Rogue t'other day said of another Company that separately they were worthy men, but together a Pack of Knaves, but I perceive Mr. Johnson hath a good Opinion of this in the bulk, but hath different thoughts of some of the Managers. Petit. And not without reason, for he among thousands more is a Sufferer by their late unworthy Practices, in the disposal of their Goods brought to England, and— St. I. What, I warrant, you are grieved at private Contracts, the Company may not dispose of their Goods as they think meet? Petit. Yes that I am and many other their base Proceed, but I hope e'er long their Wings will be clipped. Mr. J. Look you Gentlemen, private Contracts ought not to be made by a Company for Goods imported, (except with the Crown) unless Interlopers at the same time are allowed, and that for two Reasons, as first, you and I that are natural born Subjects are hereby excluded the East India Trade, we are not permitted to trade directly, neither shall we buy the Commodities of them that do; and secondly, allowing them this Practice, is granting them a Power to tax the Nation, when and to what degree they please, one hundred tun of Pepper or a hundred Bails of Muslins arrive, which being (and there's always one thing or another) wanting, they take the Advantage of the Nation's Necessity, and prize them accordingly, whereas were the Goods fairly exposed at the Candle in reasonable Lots, the Company would have a sufficient Profit, we should all that are Buyers partake of the Trade, and the Public would be served at easier Rates. St. I. And how if the Company loses by a Public Sale? Mr. J. It must be their own Faults if it be by Commodities they can gain by a private one, if they have too much of a Commodity can't they expose a part and reserve the overplus till a more proper Season, if they want Money, can't they borrow upon as easy terms as others? St. I. Yes, as they did, the Bettelles, which for want of a Price they kept several years, and during the time paid Interest for Money. Mr. J. And at the very nick, they might have had fifty per cent. Profit upon 'em, they were privately contracted out of their hands. Petit. That's true Sir. St. I. But still the Company are in the right, I think to make the most of their Goods, and you and your Friends may offer at a private Contract if you will as well as others. Mr. J. And sometimes an offer, and the highest hath signified nothing, but shall not a man trade himself, nor buy East India Commodities of the Importers, unless in conjunction with others, or that he can procure 30 or 40000 Pounds for a Purchase, where is Liberty and Property; I must conclude as I began, that these clandestine do are not allowable, a Monopoly was never designed by their Charter, and tho' it's almost absolutely necessary there be a Company, their Actions ought to correspond with the Laws, Customs and Usages of the Realm, and the Benefit of the Public. — vid. Charters. St. I. Only one word more: What Provision can possibly be made against Caballing and Combining to run down their Goods, if fairly exposed? Mr. J. I have heard this alleged in the Company's favour; but it is impracticable: there is always at a Court of Sales, Friends to the Company, well understood in all Commodities, that have more Money than there is Penny worths for them, and you may remember what All, All, in the Long-Cloth cost the Linendrapers'. St. I. I am satisfied. Pet. But pray Mr. Johnson, what do you imagine the Parliament will do with the Company. Mr. J. I think if the Company's silent Sir, they'll let them alone; but if they Petition again, they may probably be established. Pet. Marry, I hope not; should the War they made be winked at, the sundry Complaints against them from India, and St. Helen's, and for Monopolies, and private Contracts, etc. be passed by, People would be much dissatisfied. Mr. J. Nay, that does not follow, Provision in an Act of Settlement may be made, in these, and all other Points, to the satisfaction of the concerned. Pet. But a calling those to Account, whose ill management hath been the cause of all, is a necessary Antecedent. Mr. J. Every body knows, some body has been faulty, and many of their late irregular Actions are not easily answered; but to find who are the Men, and how far they are culpable, requires a great deal of time; if that can't be spared, would you have the Nation, and the Company suffer for the Miscarriages of a few private Men. It's most necessary some care be taken to secure this Trade; and how you'll do it better, than by establishing this Company, is beyond my understanding. St. I. I yet say, the guilty ought not to go unpunished, and done't fear the loss of the Trade; let it be declared open, and the present Company's Charter null, and in a week's time there'll be Subscriptions enough for a New Company. Mr. J. You're but a word and a blow, I perceive; I am not excusing the guilty, while I argue for the Company; I have been informed by those that lived in India before this Company's time, that in that Trade there was loss both out and home, so subtle was the Natives in lowering our Commodities upon the arrival of our Ships, and inhancing their own during our stay; whereas the Company having settled Colonies and Factories, Ships constantly going and returning, their Agents and Servants that contract with the Artificers themselves, collecting their Manufactures in small parcels, the Trade is brought to the perfection we now behold it: Would you have their Foundation for others to build upon? Certainly as they have merited highly of the Nation, they'll have the preferrence. St. I But establish them exclusive to others, and you'll destroy what you boast of; for their Dividends have been so large, that (if any) such a Stock is not remaining, as the Trade requires. Mr. J. Then the Act that settles them, may oblige them to complete it. St. I. No, rather to open their Books, and let others subscribe for it. Mr. J. Ay, that's pretty, How much would you have subscribed? St. I. 460218 to make their 739782 1200000 l. Mr. J. So; And what if Two Millions be subscribed? Pet. Then lower every Man's Parcel according to his Subscription. Mr. J. An excellent Proposal; if Sir H. E. subscribe 50000, and you 100 l. he will go into the Stock with 12500 l. and you with 25 l. Look ye Sir, if nothing will serve, but the Books must be opened, were I to order it, the 460218 l. should be exposed in Lots, all Persons, as well Members as others, free to bid; the Money should be paid to the Company, and the Buyers have Credit for the Sum. Pet. As I live, you deserve the Thanks of a General Court for this Notion. Mr. J. I am serious Sir: but I have seen another Model for an East-India Company, which were it enacted, I believe, would give general satisfaction, the Company, their Friends, and their Enemies must all allow of it. Pet. Would I had a sight of it. Mr. J. Here it is, I'll read it; the Title is only, An Expedient, etc. THAT the Present East-India Company be established. That their Stock of 739782 l. be made a Million, (or more) as the Parliament thinks meet. That the 460218 l. shall be advanced by the present Members proportionable to their Stocks, and Refusers obliged to sell. That no Member shall at any time during the Company have above 10000 l. Stock, and those that at present have more, be obliged to sell it. That every Thousand pounds' Credit (whether of one or more Persons) shall have a Vote, and he that hath Ten thousand to have no more. That every Member take an Oath, and seal a Bond, not to suffer another's Stock in his Name, or to have any in the Name of another; and that he will not sell, without actually transferring the same. That for every Hundred Pound bought after the Stock is so settled, Five pounds shall be paid to the King by the Buyer. That no Money be taken at Interest, but if more is required, in like manner to be advanced by the Members. That there be no private Contracts (unless with the King) for any Goods imported, but that they be fairly sold in reasonable Lots, in open Court, the highest Bidder to be the Buyer. That Commissioners be appointed to hear and determine past Matters between the Company, and others that pretend to be injured, if they make their Appeals in a certain time. It matters not whether the Commissioners are Members or not, if Men of Ability, Integrity, and Honour. Pet. Amen. I say this. Mr. J. Then you like these Proposals. Pet. Yes; and no body that's sincere in their Clamours can dislike them. Mr. J. I think here's Care taken to remedy all Evils, and supply all Defects. Gentlemen, a good Night to you. FINIS. LONDON: Printed for S. Eddowes, under the Royal Exchange in Cornhill. 1691.