Here is a further Discovery of the Formal Preachers in Reading and some of their Works made public: Or, an Answer to part of a Book put forth by William Lambel and John Bye, called, A Stop to the False Characterer's Hue and Cry. Wherein they endeavour to Cover the Author that sent the packets also seven Queries which they mention in their Epistle made public for them to answer. Written the 3d. Month, 1685, by a Lover of the Truth, but an Enemy to Deceit and Hypocrisy, let it appear where it will, Leonard Key. REader, these two Persons that have appeared in Print, to vindicate the nameless Author that sent the packets, whereby many have been abused by such Ungodly Practices; which occasioned an Hue and Cry to be sent forth after him, wherein he was described, and his words truly stated; see his Language, and compare it with theirs: they which endeavour to cover him, are very zealous for the Form, as by their daily Practices doth appear; but they say, They do not sit with their Hats on when the Lords Servants are moved to Pray, but when such as are his Enemies undertake to Pray. Observe. This may be a Caution for all to try themselves, and see how it stands; for one of them is looked upon very Eminent for most of the Travailing Friends, especially such as are like themselves, that will contend for the Form; s●me of which have told us, It was Set up to keep things Sweet and Clean, do often Lodge at his H●use, and T. C. their Old Acquaintance, with others, are almost forgo●ten, unless when they are cencern●d to Pray who are better known to them by Name than from inward sense; for when one comes that is not known by Name, they are at a loss; one instance I may give: there came an ancient Friend to visit us in the Love of God the last Summer; and I have so much Charity, that at that time they did think so as well as I, and doubtless, did think he had been one that had run with the Stream, for their Carriage did speak the s●me; we had a good Meeting, in which many were refreshed, and when he Prayed, their Hats were all off, as was observed; and when the Meeting ended, J. B. asked a Friend what his Name was, and he told him, and that he Lodged at L. K's; then he had a sense of his Spirit, and the rest that heard his Name; for the next Meeting he had, they sate with their Hats on. So these things are left to the wise in Heart to consider of, and from what ground they have arisen, with other pretended Motions that have been stamped with high Names. Job 17.8, 9, 10. Upright Men shall be astonished at this, and the Innocent shall stir up himself against the Hypocrites; the Righteous also shall hold on his way, and he that hath clean hands shall be stronger and stronger; but as for you all, do you return, and come now, for I cannot find one wise Man amongst you. You say in your Epistle, The Queries we aclowledge were sent to us in Manuscript; now, as for the Observations, we saw them not till they were Printed.( Answer. The Observations concerned the Author of the packets) And you say, The plain Reason why we did not Answer those Queries at that time, was the Injustice and unfair Dealing we had met with from L. K. to which W. L. gave an Answer in Writing, Sealed; which Answer soon after L. K. had received, he tore into pieces without so much as looking into it, to see, or take notice what was written therein. Observe, The Answer you mention, concerned something that had happened before, which you had secretly spread abroad in Writing, to the Wrong and Defamation of your Neighbours; which you were often called upon to make good, but never did do it. And if you had stated the Matter right, you should have told the Reader what a long Discourse William Anstal and L. K had together before the Letter was tore, you need not have heaped so many black Names upon L. K. for that Act; for he doth say his end was good in that thing, and did think by what had passed from him and W. A. that the Difference as to that had been at an end. But you go on and say, This was the Reason why we then forbore to Answer his written Queries, and( say you) we willingly submit to the judgement of Truth in every honest Friend, and we leave it to the Witress of God in every Upright Heart. Answer. If you had kept to it in yourselves, you would not have been found in this Work, to vindicate one that was ashamed to put his Name to what he did( I mean, the packet Merchant) And you say, If any should question why we had not answered the Pamphlet sooner? we answer, his Impatiency considered, we therein followed the wise Man's Counsel. Observe. You might as well have said, the Counsel of the Second-day's Meeting; which, I suppose, approved of your Book. And you say, ' Writing and Printing against the People of the Lord Reader, observe who is name in the Hue and Cry, that was occasioned by one that was ashamed of his Name, which is little better than a Pick-Pocket; and the Names given him therein, are due to his evil Undertakings. In page. 6 you say, We have examined your railing Pamphlet, and what hath been sent by Post to you or others, of what Contents, or from whom, we neither know, nor think ourselves concerned to inquire. ( Observe) yet saith W. L. and J. B. The Person that sent you your Books again, is called in your Pamphlet, Formal Apostate, Envious Person, Treacherous Person, Night-Wanderer; and this sort of Language is to be found in your Pamphlet. page. 7. 'Tis the Title and common strain, libeler, libeler: but whoever it be that you mean, what do you so often call him libeler? Answer. I perceive the word troubles you, that the nameless Author should be so termed. And say you, Is it only because he set not his Name to the packets( you say) he sent you; for you say, We know no other Reason you can give but this:( observe, Reader) but then you quarrel about your Money, your 14 d. and 18 d. for Postage, and are wrangling about a Name, as though they were the two main things that trouble you. Answer. We are troubled that any Person that would seem to be Religious, should be found in such unjust Practices, and that you should appear in Print to cover him in it, and to vilify your peaceable Neighbours: And this I have further to signify, That I do not know of any packets that have been sent by Post, to put our Friends to such unnecessary Charges as is before mentioned, since the Hue and Cry was put forth; so that the Publishing of it hath been of great Service, and our end as to that is answered; and our Desires are, That the libeler that was the Cause of it, and you that have appeared to vindicate him, may come to have a sight of what you have been doing, and Repent. But say W. L. and J. B. Through all your Coverings the Light discovers you. Answer. May you not be beholden to the Nameless Author for this Advice you give us, see his Language in the Hue and Cry, pag. 7. And in the Postscript, say you, Here is a short Description given of him, meaning( say you) the Person that sent the Books; a short Description indeed, but a long Vilification and foul Reproach. Answer. What is said in the Postscript is true, and hath hit the Matter which many are galled about, and what you have done will give them and yourselves but little case. The Reader is desired to see for himself, and then he may the better Judge; the Lord hath given understanding to many, that they may see for themselves, sonone need say, as William Lambel did in the hearing of many, That if the Friends at London did Err, he would Err. So that it plainly appears, He pins his Faith upon other Folks sleeves. In page. the 8. You say, Are you not found to be libelers, who call the person you writ against, Formal Apostate, five times over, without any proof thereof. Answer, No, we put our Names to what we writ; and if Blindness had not happened, you would not have been found in this work. ( Again you say) Rage and Anger possesses your Breasts, your Spirits frets, and are disquieted within you. Answer, You are as found in your Judgments in this Matter. As the two Elders of Israel was in days past, Which bore false witness against the Innocent. But say you, they was in Babylon. I shall leave the Reader to judge, where you are, and how you have Answered; the Queries may be seen by them that red. And the great stir you make in page. 9.) That you had not the Observations, as well as the Queries, before they were made public. Answer, I say to you as I said before, they concerned the Author of the Packets: Unless you will come forth, and tell the People you was the persons that sent them, and concealed your Names; and when you so do, I shall acknowledge I was mistaken in wording the Matter. But however, you deserve to be considered for what you have done, and to have the Applause of all that are like minded with you; for I do not know any that would have undertook what you have done: So that if the Author of the Packets do not consider you also, he is much to blame. And in page. 11. You tell of the way of Truth. Answer, Surely the Packet Merchant that you would cover, was out of it, and you also that endeavour to cover him. In page. 12. You tell of the Apostles, and what they practised and set up. And you say come Leonard, consider seriously of these things. Answer, I do not find that you have quoted one place of Scripture, that they did set up Womens meetings distinct from the men, to keep things sweet and clean, as hath been often said to us formerly. So these have been the persons, that hath been in the lo heres, and lo theres; some times for one thing, and some times for another. Like to the Merchants of Babylon in days past, when one thing would not serve and go off, they had another ready. And such never wanted Matter, or great swelling Words to stamp things with. But the day is come, blessed be the Lord, and the Eye is opened, that beholds the whorish Spirit, in all her Paints and Dresses. And in page. 13.( you say) They that have erred from the Spirit, are in the Snare. Answer, Very true, therefore it concerns all to keep to the measure in themselves, and not do like W. L. as is before hinted. ( And you say) Thou bidst us red, and see how it was with Israel of old, when they forsook the Lord.( But say you) thou dost not direct us where to red and see it. Answer, I say to you and all People, Let every mind be turned inward, and there wait till the Lord is pleased to appear; whose appearance is as the morning without Clouds, and he doth give to all such as truly wait upon him, a sense of their own condition: And this keeps out of the rambling, and running hither and thither. And in page. 16.( say you) We neither set up, nor contend for any Form, but what the Spirit and Power of God leads into, and justifies in; Reader, observe how high things are stamped here. In page. 17. you say, If any thing hath happened amiss amongst those that profess the Name of the Lord, doth that prove either that the order of Truth( say you) established amongst us, is not holy, or hath not a tendency to keep things sweet and clean? Answer, If any knows such a state, it must be by keeping to the fear of the Lord in their own hearts, there is nothing else can do the work; as the Servant of the Lord testified in days past. And if there were an hedge made every year, it would not do, although they should call themselves that made it, by the name of the Yearly Meeting: That which is highly esteemed of amongst men, is an abomination in the sight of God, Luke 16.15. And you seem to Query, Whether the Quakers Form and holy Orders, was ever set up under the penalty of being cast into the Fiery Furnace. The 11th. Query in the Hue and Cry, take for Answer: But least that should not satisfy you, look back and consider, what a heat of, spirit many was in as well as yourselves, against J. S. and J. W. and how many run posting up and down, after that little Paper was sent( I think) out of Holland, in which Paper they were name: And when you met with them, had not you orders to bid them go Home? I think G. F. was too it. Now in this your work, did you not appear like unto Ahab's Prophets in days past, which was near Four hundred in number, and spoken all as with one Mouth; but a lying spirit had entred them, by which the King was deceived. And was not he that was of another mind, accounted a bad spirit? red and see how he was treated. And in page. 18. you say, Those called Formal Preachers, do not sit with their Hats on, when the Lords Servants are moved to pray.( But say you) It is when such as are not the Servants of the Lord, but his Enemies, that takes upon them to Pray; Observe, this may be a Caution for all. And I suppose, many of you are like minded with W. L. and liked well how C. H. was treated by him publicly, when he came to Reading to visit us in the Love of God, was not what he met with from him, much like to what Amos the Prophet met with in days past from Jeroboams Priests? Was not C. H. bid go Home by W. L. and keep up his Testimony there: The Reader is desired to see a paper lately come forth, called, The Abominations in Jerusalem descovered. And that to the Formal Preachers, which was printed( as I suppose) without being approved of, at the second days meeting, so may have the less esteem by many, that makes a loud cry for Unity; and can as occasion serves, speak all as with one mouch. But say you, The Lords Servants are such as are ruled by him, and found in his Work and Service. Ans. That is true: But can you that be found in the works of Unrigh cousness be such, or competent judges? And what makes you name W. R. and other pernicious Books, as you call them? And in this your work, are endeavouring to cover the libeler. I could wish all would see for themselves, and not take things upon trust, for such are found judging before they hear; a practise condemned in days past, and no ways justifiable now. See the Seventh Part of the Christian Quaker: For as all keeps in that which favours, they will come to see for themselves, and need not fear being deceived. In page. 19. you say, Thy secret smi●ings do●h not reach us.( but say you) If the weak stumble and fall, it will lye at your door, who have joined to follow that Spirit of Opposition and Contention, and( as you say) rendered the ancient and honourable in the Truth, Apostates, Innovators, and Incliners to Popery. Answer. If others hath been doing that which the formal Apostate hath, which renders them to be as hath been testified, they must bear their own burdens, and your striving cannot give them ease. Therefore cease your work, and be still, and let them that be concerned answer for themselves. And you say, Canst thou expect, Leonard, any should think that thou hast any regard to the weak, who in your malicious Pamphlet in print, hast laid so many stumbling Blocks in their way. Answer, What any that are envious like yourselves, think of me, I matter it not: But my desire is, that all may be found looking to the Lord, who is able to remove them, and in his own time will rend all Vailes, and answer the sincerity where ever it appears, let People go under what Name, or Denomination they will, for his Love is Universal. page. 20.( you say) How comest thou to suppose they were sent by a Formal Preacher,( I think you mean the Packets) seeing thou dost not know who sent them. Answer, His Language speaks him to be as I have said. See the Hue and Cry, and compare it with your own. But saith W. L. and J. B. Were not the Packets you speak of, your own Books that you have printed, and spread about the Country? Answer, We can say our end was good in what we have done, though we had not the Approbation of the second days Meeting, and we have an answer of peace in our Bosoms, which is a sufficient reward what ever we meet with, from others that are in envy. See the offers that was made for peace at York. ( But you say) I is most likely, it is your states and conditions opened unto you, in what was written upon those Books, or in those packets you speak of. Answer, That which opens every ones state and condition, is a near thing, which all will do well, that waits to feel the same that opens, a manifestation thereof being given to every one to profit withal. ( But say you) We do not think it the fruit of a Christian Spirit, for any to sand great packets by Post, on purpose to put Honest men to Charge; neither is it likely the Packets you speak of, were sent on purpose to put any of you to Charge. Answer, If the Packet Merchant had paid the postage, we might a thought so, as well as you ' But you say, it may be our states and conditions was opened by them. If you had said, our pockets had been opened, you had ●it the matter indeed. They came apace, four hither in eight days time, besides what went to other places. We gave you but a hint of the Charge. ( But you say) To us it seems far more probable, that whoever sent the packets, had a better end and purpose in sending them, then to put Honest men to Charge. Reader, consider what a work here is made, to cover the nameless Author. In page. 21.( you seem to Query) Whether we have not preserred our 3 s. 8 d. before the Honour of God, and the prosperity of his blessed Truth. Answer, In this you are greatly mistaken; it is best known to the Lord, how near and dear his Truth is to us, that he hath revealed and made known in our Hearts, which is given for a leader to God's people. ( But say you) Your opposing the good order of Truth, your Writing, Printing Publishing to the World, your malicious Books and Pamphlets. Observe what a work here is about the Pamphlet, as you call it, which hath both our Names to it; And how often have you name it? I perceive it doth gull you, and many more. And what a work you make to cover the Formal Apostate? It may make some think, that sees your work, that there is a great Affinity between you. In page. 22.( you say) The calling such dark Spirits, is not giving bad names, but giving suitable names to bad things. Surely if you had intended to charge others which giving bad Names, you should have forborn to give so many bad Names yourselves; as your Pamphlet in almost every page. is stuffed with. Answer, The merit of the cause, called for what we did. For I do say, that act of the nameless Author was little better, than to pick our pockets. And seeing you have appeared so much on his behalf, I doubt not, but you may hear of his works from other Hands. Have you a mind to pay the Debts he hath contracted? If you have, I do believe it will amount to some pounds, besides what is due to the Post-master. But seeing you are so troubled about our giving bad Names in our Sheet, it is desired that the Reader will look into a Book, put forth in the name of the Second Days Meeting, and see there what they have done; it is called, The Accuser. And in your Answer to the 12 Queries, you say it was the Elders of Israel( but in Babylon) mark that by the way, that in days past, gave unrighteous judgement, and did condemn the Innocent. But what then( say you) thou askest, Hath it not been so in our days? You answer, No: In our days the Youngsters, and many loose raw Lads, have taken upon them to give unrighteous judgement against the Elders, and hath condemned the Innocent. Observe, Who is so loose and raw, that makes any show of Religion, as the nameless Author of the Packets; And where his Place and Residence was when he sent them, I hope time will manifest: And where yours is that are many times in confusion, that have undertook to daub up the Packet Merchant, and to velifie your Neighbours.( Again, page. 23. What a Clamour do you make about J. S.) will not those that red your Book, see you to be Envious in what you have done, and said against him that is gone to his Grave in peace, besides what was said by the nameless Author; your reward will be according to your works. ( And you say) Hadst thou and others of you kept to the first principles, you might have been preserved out of that Evil Spirit, which hath lead you to do so much misc●ief as you have done. Answer, I do not know what they mean by this, unless it hath been our publishing the Hue and Cry against the Formal Apostate. And they say, We must feel the wait of judgement, if ever we come to receive Mercies( this is their sentence.) In page. 18. you say, After Truth had been declared, and many Convinced, and made a profession of it, then some turned from it again, and run into a corrupt Liberty, and therein brought forth such things, as are indeed a shane to mention, and a grief to the truly Righteous to think on. Answer, This is very true, therefore it concerns all to try themselves. I desire the Reader to consider of the Libeller's Work, that occasioned the Hue and Cry, and yours, that would cover him in it. In page. 24.( you say) Now Leonard, having answered thy Queries, we shall not need to say much of thy Observations, which L. K. intended for the Packet Merchant: yet we cannot( say you) but take notice how thou shufflest in thy Answer, about shutting Friends out of their Meeting-House; which it seems was mentioned in three particulars, in some of the Packets thou speakest of. To the first of shutting the Quarterly Mens meeting out of the House at Blubery. Thy answer saith, If it were so, the Friends at Blubery best knows why it was so. But saith W. L. and J B. thou need not have said, if it were so, it was too notorious to be denied, or doubted. Reader, Observe the confidence of these men, but I perceive they are willing to help their old Friend out of the mire, though they venture to mire themselves by doing it. The next is arthur Estmead,( you say) nailing up their Meeting-House Doors at Calne; my answer to the libeler doth not please, for they tell me on his behalf, that was but a poor simplo shift Leonard;( and say you) it is greatly to be questioned, whether thou hast not belied thy own knowledge. Answer, I am very clear in what I have said, and so do not matter what any can say to the contrary; I understand arthur Estmead did not nail up the Meeting Houses Doors, therefore consider what you have been all a doing, and repent of your lies. In page. 25( say you) See now how you and the World have joined, in one and the same Spirit, to do one and the same thing against Friends: Thus, say you, by your Fruits, your Spirits are judged. Observe and consider what your own Fruits are, and his that you have endeavoured so much to cover, by making use of what was sent, as Observations upon his wicked Works. ( But say you) If thou wouldst have something that more particularly hits him, the other Instance does it: The shuting of the Womens Half-year Meeting, out of the Meeting-House at Reading. Which( as you say) several of them had right in; which was his Act, meaning B. C. Observe Reader, if this be looked into, it will prove a very false Charge against B. C. And say you, on the behalf of the Formal Apostate, the Women Friends being shut out of the Meeting-House, were fain to meet in a Malt-House; and say you, thou scoffingly plays upon that. Because I said that was hardly well taken by those that came from London, and other places; so still I find, what I say doth not please you. Observe, If you speak true, you must needs say the same. And you say it was Queried, I suppose you mean by the Packet Merchant. Is this your Liberty of Conscience?( You say) I did scoffingly answer, in saying, Surely the Women in the Malt-House in Reading, there met and assembld together, might a brought forth as good an Edict, as they did that met at Barbadoes. If you be of another mind, let me know it in your next. ( You tell the Reader) I am become unsavoury Salt. The end of which( say you) thou may red, Mat. 5.13. Hast no bridle to thy Tongue. Answer, If you have spoken true, it would be sad with L. K. and he might be in as much trouble as the libeler is: And you that have endeavoured to espouse his unrighteous cause. You say in page. 14. Did not he prove an Enemy to Israel, who set up a separate Altar at Bethel. Reply it's very true, let the 5th. and 6th. Query in the Hue and Cry, be an answer to that, and to what hath been set up in our days, Jeremiah 23.18, 19, verses, For who hath stood in the Counsel of the Lord, and hath perceived and heard his Word; who hath marked his Word and heard it: Behold, a Whirlwind of the Lord is gone forth in fury, even a grievous Whirlwind, it shall fall grievously upon the head of the wicked. Hosea 9.7. The days of Visitation are come, Israel shall know it, the Prophet is a fool, the Spiritual Man is mad, for the multitude of thine Iniquity and the great Hatred. Here follows the Queries. First Query, Did you not endeavour the setting up the Womes Meeting distinct from the Men, that Idol that so many have run a Whoring after, and to bring in the new fashion Marriage amongst us, which hath been almost as troublesone in our days, as the setting up of the time called Easter, was in days past? And hath not as much Envy and Malice lodged in you as was in them, and did you ever prove the practise of it to be according to the Scriptures? 2. Query, Was it not endeavoured to be set up here with us, to gratify the Preachers that was zealous for it, that took each other; and are not these things that are ushered in by some, that would fain get themselves a Name, contrary to the Apostles Doctrine and practise, who said, We look not at things that are seen, but at things that are not seen. 3. Query. And do not many of you that are in Envy and Strife, do what you do in Opposition, when you stand or sit with your Hats on in time of Prayer, and oftentimes stays behind, when most of the Friends parts? If it be not so, who is your example for those practices, seeing one of you said, in the hearing of many, if the Friends at London did Err, he would Err? 4. Query. And doth not your staying behind often times, cause trouble to your peaceable Neighbours, which had rather be quiet then meddle with you, give to all that beholds you to know, that tehre is a standard of Contention held up by you, which was not when the Principle was the Guide and Leader? 5. Query. And when you bring trouble upon yourselves and them by your Confusion, and are carried sometimes to Prison for it; is it not your usual practise to lay your Sufferings, with your Name to it, before the second days Meeting, which cannot help themselves? therefore consider the Rod that is over you all, and do not you use to tell others of your Valour and Faithfulness? 6. Query. And did not you do wickedly in spreading the Paper with many lies in it, against Thomas Curtis, and others, dated the 11th. of the 3d. Month, 84. and then came after it was spread, and asked him what he said? And when it was debated, did not you say you did not know of the spreading of it, and was not you all asked about it that was concerned, and did not one of you red it in the hearing of many, in one of your Houses, when the Womens half years Meeting was kept at Reading? And so may it not be said of you, as it was said by wise Solomon, When there is no Wood the Fire goeth out, and where there is no tale-bearers strife ceaseth. 7. Query. And is not the Lord just in all these things, who will bring down Babylon in his own day and time, notwithstanding she hath said in her heart I sit as a Queen, and shall see no sorrow; her ruin is near, and all her Images must fall, and the false gods that she hath made, which cannot help themselves, must be ground to powder, in the Lord's own time. Therefore it matters not who saith, I have set up this, or I have set up the other thing, which at the first seemed green; a day of withering is come, and coming upon it all, the mown grass is your Figure: So they are the happy People, that keeps in that which will endure for ever. It matters not what Name they go under, it is Sincerity the Lord looks at. Lamentations 3.37. Who is he that saith, and it cometh to pass, when the Lord commandeth it not. L. K. Much more might have been written, to show the unrighteousness of J. B. and W. L. in their Book, but it is no ways pleasant to such as are truly Religious, especially at this time of day, to be writing or reading of Controversies, occasioned by such as profess one Truth, and also considering that our Opposers are men that delicht in Contention, and have not scrupled to appear to vindicate such Wickedness, whereof but a hint is given in the Hue and Cry; and seeing they can take the liberty to cover such Actions, what will not such do by their deceitful Insinuations, so are not worth Answening any further at present. But shall commit our cause to God( till we feel a further concern from him) knowing that both they and us must shortly appear at the Bar of Righteous judgement, and give and account of our works, and receive a reward according to our doings. THE END.