Imprimatur,  
Z. Isham, R. P. D. Hen. Episc. Lond. à Sacris.  
Jan. 12. 1690/ 1.   

A Friendly Discourse BETWEEN An ENGLISH Dissenter AND A French Protestant, Concerning the Liturgy and Ceremonies OF THE Church of ENGLAND.  
By Daniel la Fite, M. A. Rector of East-Dean, in the County of Sussex.  
The First PART.  
LONDON, Printed for Ric. Northcott, at the Mariner and Anchor, adjoining to St. Peter's. Alley, in Cornhill. 1691.   

To my very good and worthy Friend and Patron, ROBERT ORME, Esq  
Worthy Sir,  
I Am not so conceited to persuade myself, that these Papers are worthy to be presented to you, in which a less piercing Judgement than yours is, will easily discover many defects: but the Subject of them is so worthy and edifying, and the Charch, for whose Defence they are designed, doth so well deserve your respect and affection, that I promise myself, that on this view they will not fail of being most acceptable and welcome to you. The only reason that hath persuaded me to expose them to public censure, notwithstanding those many excellent Treatises that have been published on the same matter, is to undeceive those amongst the English Dissenters, who pretend and confidently assert, that our French Protestant's were of the same Judgement with them in matters of Religion: And the Esteem I have of your Worth, and the Concern you have for the Cause I defend, together with the Experience I have had of your singular Bounty and Kindness, engage me to present them to you; not with an intent to acquit myself of my Obligations, which is beyond the reach of my power; but only to intimate, how sensible I am of those highly-valued Testifications of your Love and ; wherewith you have been pleased to honour me. A most dreadful Tempest, such as the Church of God, it may be, never felt before; having tossed me out of my own Country, with the miserable Remains of the Shipwreck of our French Churches, and in this common Calamity finding myself as a person cast out upon a strange Shore, without any support, help or hope; yet I can say, that even in this state I never wanted any thing; for which great and unlookt-for Blessing, I am bound, next to the Goodness of God, to acknowledge your unparallelled Kindness and Generosity, who soon after my Arrival in England were pleased to bestow a Living upon me; by which means I was prevented from being a Charge to the Nation, as many of my Countrymen were, and put into a condition of boasting with St. Paul, that I have not been chargeable to any man. In a thankful acknowledgement of which favour, I humbly present these my weak Essays to you, wishing they may be so well approved of, as to persuade you, that I am most truly and sincerely,  
SIR, Your Faithful and Obedient Friend and Servant, Daniel la Fite   

A Friendly Discourse BETWEEN AN ENGLISH Dissenter AND A FRENCH Protestant.  Engl. Dissenter. 
I Understand, Sir, you are a French Protestant; I am hearty glad to see you.  Fr. Protestant. 
You are truly informed, Sir, I am a French Protestant.  E. D. 
Pray Sir, in what Condition are the poor Protestants in France?  F. P. 
When I left France, their Condition was very deplorable; and for any thing I hear, it continues so still.  E. D. 
I am grieved at my heart for them; for I am so much one with them as to their Religion, for which they are so cruelly Persecuted, that I cannot but extremely Pity them.  F. P. 
Then I suppose, Sir, you are a Protestant.  E. D. 
Yes, Sir, and of the same Judgement as you are in matters of Religion.  F. P. 
I am glad to understand so much; Like, we say, loves like.  E. D. 
Pray Sir, how long have you been in England?  F. P. 
Almost these five Years.  E. D. 
I do not doubt then, but that you are a good Proficient, by this time, in our English Tongue.  F. P. 
Truly, Sir, I have nothing to boast of in this regard; for whether it be the hardness of the English Tongue, or the thickness of my Scull, I know not; but so it is, that I can only make a shift to speak some broken English.  E. D. 
Don't say so, Sir; methinks you speak very intelligibly, and proper enough for a Foreigner. I can understand you very well; and if you please to enter with me, for this is my House, I shall be glad to have some further discourse with you.  F. P. 
Sir, I accept of your kindness; and if you please to show me the way, I shall follow you.  E. D. 
Sir, you are very hearty welcome; I am glad to see you here; be pleased to take a Seat. Pray Sir, how do you like our Country?  F. P. 
Extraordinary well, Sir; and were it not for the unhappy Divisions that are amongst you, especially in matters of Religion, I should have reason to believe this, with the adjoining Islands, to be the Insul●… Fortunatae, or happy Islands of the Ancients.  E. D. 
I perceive, Sir, you are sensible then of the Divisions that are amongst us.  F. P. 
Ay, Sir, I am but too well informed of them; and indeed very sadly concerned, to see that Protestants cannot agree amongst themselves, which certainly casts a great blemish upon the Reformation.  E. D. 
So it doth indeed, Sir; and you may thank the Church of England for it.  F. P. 
Why the Church of England, Sir?  E. D. 
Because 'tis She has refused all terms of Accommodation, that we Protestant Dissenters, as they call us, have offered to her.  F. P. 
I never heard that she had refused any. But pray, Sir, be pleased to let me know, what those terms are that you have offered her, and she hath refused?  E. D. 
We have propounded to her the laying aside of the Common-prayer, and parting with her Ceremonies; and for other things, we might probably comply with them.  F. P. 
But, Sir, are you sure that what you demand is reasonable, and may justly be granted?  E. D. 
Without doubt she may, and she ought, and she can do no less for us, than to wave her Popish Common-prayer-book, and cast off her superstitious Ceremonies.  F. P. 
Pray, Sir, let me beg of you, to acquaint me, what you have to object against the Common-prayer; and afterwards, if the time gives leave, I shall be glad to hear what you have to allege against our Church-Ceremonies.  E. D. 
That I will, Sir; and shall do it the more freely, because I should be glad to undeceive you, for I perceive by your discourse you  F. P. 
To deal sincerely with you, Sir, I am a Member of the Church of England, but withal a true friend to Dissenters; and I hope you will be so too, if in Answering your Objections, I can convince you, that the Common-prayer of the Church is very good and edifying, and her Ceremonies lawful and decent.  E. D. 
I shall consider what you have to say.  F. P. 
But, Sir, it lies at your door to begin, by propounding your Objections against the Commonpraver.  E. D. 
I have many things to object against that Idol: And, in the first place, I think it ought to be taken away, because it is unlawful to have a set Form of Prayer imposed upon the Church.  F. P. 
Either you or I, Sir, are strangely mistaken in this point; for I must own, that my Judgement always hath been, that it is not only lawful to have a set Form of Prayer in the Church: but what is more, that no Church can well be without one.  E. D. 
Pray how so, Sir? For, if I be not greatly mistaken, you speak now against the General sense of the French Protestants; for I never heard that they had any set Forms of Prayer.  F. P. 
I perceive, Sir, you have been ill informed concerning these matters; for, the truth is, we French Protestant's have a Common-prayer-book, which was composed by Calvin himself, and therein we agree with the concurring practice of the Universal Church: for I never read or heard of any Church in the World, but had a set Form of Prayer; so that for you to oppose it, is no less than to deny the Authority, Testimony and Practice of all the Saints of the Old and New Testaments, both Prophets and Apostles, and the express Command of our Saviour himself; and, in a word, Sir, you condemn the general sense and practise of Christianity and the Holy Catholic Church.  E. D. 
I hear what you say, Sir, and expect you should prove it.  F. P. 
Nay more than this, you contradict the Example of our great Lord and Master, the Founder of our Religion, and the Author and Finisher of our Faith.  E. D. 
This is a high Charge indeed; but pray be pleased to make it out.  F. P. 
That I will, Sir. First I say, that you contradict the Authority and Practice of the Prophets in the Old Testament, forasmuch as it is evident that they made use of set Forms of Prayer, and had a particular Command so to do: to be convinced of this, be pleased to read the 26th Chapter of Deuteronomy, from Verse 13. to 16. and the 14th. Chapter of Hosea, beginning at the second Verse, Take with you words, and turn unto the Lord, and say unto him, etc. and the 2d of Joel, Verse 17. Let the Priests, the Ministers of the Lord, weep between the Porch and the Altar; and let them say, Spare thy people, O Lord, etc.  
Secondly, You contradict the Command of our Lord and Saviour, and the Practice of the holy Apostles, which I prove from the 11th Chapter of St. Luke, the 1st and 2d Verses, where we read that one of our Saviour's Disciples asked him in the Name of all his Companions, to teach them to pray, as John had taught his Disciples; whereupon our Saviour, addressing himself to all his Disciples, said, When ye pray, say, Our Father, etc. From whence I infer these two things: First, That the Apostles had a set Form of Prayer prescribed them by Christ himself; for it is impossible to order any Form in more plain and express terms, than our Saviour makes use of in recommending this Prayer to his Disciples. Secondly, I conclude from hence, that the Disciples made use of this Form; which will not be questioned, if we consider the great desire they shown to obtain this Form of Prayer from our Saviour, and the readiness wherewith they always obeyed the Commands he laid upon them. So that this cannot but be a sufficient proof to any thinking Man, that when they prayed, they made use of this Form or Prescription their blessed Lord and Master had at their request given them, with this express Command; When you pray, say, Our Father, etc.  
3. You oppose the General Practice of Christendom, and of the Holy Catholic Church; because neither yourself, nor any Man else, can give an instance of any Church in the World, from the Apostles times to these our days, but what had a set Form of Prayers: for though all have not used the same, yet there is no Church but has used some Form or other.  
4. You condemn the Example and Practice of our dear Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ himself; for it is evident that he himself made use of a Form of Prayer, Matt. 26. v. 44.  E. D. 
I will not undertake now to return you a particular Answer to what you have here alleged; but shall only say, that Praying by a Form, has by experience been found a hindrance and obstacle to true fervent Prayer in the Spirit; and to deal plainly with you, this seems to be one great reason why the Ministers of the Church of England are so dull and ignorant in this point, and so little acquainted with spiritual Prayer.  F. P. 
I am not a little surprised at this your Answer; for having but just now proved to you, that the Prophets and Apostles, the Holy Catholic Church, and Christ himself made use of Forms of Prayer; you, after all this, come and tell me, that Praying by Forms, is a hindrance to Praying by the Spirit; which is as much as to say, that neither the Prophets, Apostles, the Catholic Church, nor Christ himself prayed by the Spirit, because they made use of a set Form, which is a near step to Blasphemy.  E. D. 
I did not design to say so much neither; though I must confess that, Praying by a set Form, seems to me (for I find it so by experience) to be a great Obstacle to true spiritual Prayer.  F. P. 
Though it may seem so to you; yet your Charity should lead you rather to question your own Judgement, than to pass so rash a Censure upon the Saints of the Old and New Testament, yea, upon Christ himself; besides, you ought to be very wary of exposing yourself to the derision of all men, by supposing yourself wiser than all the Prophets and Apostles, than the whole Christian Church and Christ himself, since it is most certain that they made use of Forms; and not only so, but our Saviour himself prescribed a Form of Prayer to his Disciples, commanding them, when they prayed, to use the same; which he would never have done, had it indeed been so great a hindrance to servant Prayer by the Spirit, as you pretend.  E. D. 
If it be not a hindrance to others, I am sure 'tis so to me.  F. P. 
I hope I shall understand you better, if you please to explain to me what you mean by praying by the Spirit.  E. D. 
I suppose no true Christian can be ignorant of what Praying by the Spirit is, and therefore I can't see any necessity there is of explaining a thing so obvious to the understanding of all.  F. P. 
Since you seem unwilling to give me your meaning, I am very free to give you mine; to pray by the Spirit is, as I take it, to pray by the help and assistance of the Holy Ghost, so as to have our hearts and minds deeply affected with the sense of our wants, and all our Faculties and Affections inflamed with the Love of God, and steadfast Faith in his Promises.  E. D. 
I perceive we do not disagree at all in the meaning of the words.  F. P. 
I am glad we are so far agreed: for it is evident that, according to this meaning of the words, a set Form of Prayer is so far from being a hindrance, that indeed it is a great help to fervent praying by the Spirit; and on the contrary, Extemporary Prayer must needs be a great impediment to it. To convince you of this, I desire you would consider, that when we pray by a Form, we have more time to study the import of our Requests, and to weigh and examine every Petition with greater attention; we have more leisure to understand and discern our wants, and to present them before God; we can the better prepare and dispose ourselves for so holy a Duty; and in a word, we can be more intent and recollected to improve the motions of the Spirit, having nothing else to do, but to fix our mind wholly on God, whilst we are praising of him, and have our hearts suitably affected with the things we pray for. Whereas in Extemporary Prayer, the mind of the Minister, or whoever else it is that prayeth, is taken up in hunting for expressions to utter his thoughts; and for fear of being put to a stand, he is forced to follow, not the motions of the Spirit, or the dictate of his understanding, but the fluency of an acquired habit of Praying; and by this means doth often begin, where he should end, and end where he should begin. And those very men that speak so much against the necessary and edifying Repetitions that we use in our Common-prayer, do very frequently in their Extemporary-prayer repeat the same things over and over again, though it may be in different expressions. And as for the People that hear a Minister pray an Extemporary-prayer, as they do not know beforehand what he will say, they must first attend to what he saith; in the next place they must consider whether what he prayeth be according to the Word of God, and fit for them to join with: but whilst the Hearer is thus employed, he that prays is got to another thing, and leaves his Hearers behind to overtake him as they best can; which according to my apprehension makes the way of praying extempore so difficult and uneasy, that it is morally impossible for both Minister and People, to pray so devoutly, or at least so understandingly as they ought to do. If you please well to weigh and consider what I have here offered, I question not but you will be convinced, that a set Form of Prayer is so far from being a hindrance, that it is a great furtherance to zealous praying by the Spirit; whereas the Prayer you are so much taken with, is indeed a great obstacle to it.  E. D. 
However Sir, I suppose you will grant me, that it is this tying themselves up to a Form, that hath made the Ministers of the Church of England so dull and devoid of the Gift of Prayer, that they cannot pray without Book; and may rather be compared to those Dumb dogs whom the Prophet reproves, than be looked upon as Ministers of the Gospel.  F. P. 
Though I am a Stranger here, yet I have very good reason to believe, that I am better acquainted with the Ministers of the Church of England than you are, and am better informed of their parts and abilities, than you can be; for I have made it my business to be acquainted with them, not maliciously to slander and abuse them, but to the end I might the better understand and value them, and profit by them. And if you will give me leave to speak my Judgement, which is not grounded upon hear-say, but upon good knowledge of, and converse with them, I must render them this true and unbiass'd testimony, That of all the Clergy I ever was acquainted with, they are the most Learned and Godly.  E. D. 
You are a French man Sir, and therefore I suppose that much of this may pass for Compliment.  F. P. 
I am indeed a Frenchman by birth, but yet I value myself upon this account, that in heart and affection I am a hearty true Englishman. And since you are pleased to look upon my judgement of the English Clergy no better than a Compliment, I challenge you to tell me, what Nation in the World can boast of having such great and worthy Divines as we have?  E. D. 
Pray how comes it to pass then, that they cannot pray?  F. P. 
Who told you they could not? Sure I am that they both can and do pray; and that so excellently, that as they surpass those of other Nations for Learning, so likewise in Devotion, and the Gift of Prayer; and if you had taken time to peruse their Books of Devotion, you would never have told me, as you do, That the prescribing of a Form of Prayer has been the occasion why the Ministers of the Church of England are become so dull and ignorant, even to that excess, that they cannot pray.  E. D. 
However, I think, they are much to blame; for that in their Pulpits, if they pray at all, they dispatch them in so few words, that any one that hears them will be apt to conclude, they cannot pray; but should you once come to our Meetings, ay, there you would hear Praying indeed.  F. P. 
I will not deny, but that commonly our Clergy, in the Pulpit, use only a short Prayer before Sermon; but done't at all deserve to be blamed, but rather to be commended, for so doing; if we consider, first, that our Clergy choose to make use of a short Prayer only before Sermon, because they have found, by woeful Experience, that long extemporary Prayers have begot, in most People, a dislike of the Common-prayer, and consequently have been the occasion of those unchristian Animosities, Schisms and Divisions, that are so rife amongst us. And, I think, you have no just reason to blame this precaution of theirs, till you have made out, first, that the People do well to undervalue and despise the Common-prayer, and that the Aversion they have for it is a sufficient ground for Schism and Division. A second reason why the Ministers of the Church of England use such short Prayers is, that by this means they may condescend to the weakness of the People, lest an overlong Prayer should weary those who have already attended upon, and joined their hearts and voices with, the public Prayers offered up to God by the Church. And in the third and last place, we shall find that there is nothing good or useful for us, which the Minister hath not already prayed for, nor any thing evil or hurtful, which he has not deprecated in the public Prayers appointed by the Church, which methinks might at least lessen the fault of our Clergy in your sight, and somewhat allay the bitterness of your Censure against them. And as for your Meetings, where you tell me there is Praying indeed, I must freely tell you, that though I never was at any Meeting in my life, yet I have often had an opportunity of hearing your Ministers pray; but forasmuch as my temper doth not incline me, and my Religion much less, to pass any offensive Reflection upon any sort of People, therefore I humbly crave leave to be excused from giving you my opinion of them.  E. D. 
Though I cannot but approve of your Modesty in this regard, yet I should be glad to have you speak out; and therefore I desire you to tell me freely from your heart, what you think of them; and whether they do not pray very well?  F. P. 
Because you urge me, I shall, in compliance with your desires, tell you, and that with all the truth and sincerity imaginable, that I am so far from liking their unpremeditated extemporary Prayers, that I altogether disapprove them; and above all, am much offended at their way of praying.  E. D. 
Sure you don't speak from your heart now, as I desired you would, for if you did, you could not say so; since it is certain that they pray incomparably better than any of your Churchmen: one of their unpremeditated Prayers being far beyond all the Prayers that are in your Common-prayer-book.  F. P. 
Good Sir, I must entreat you for once to lay aside all your Prejudices, and to make use of your Reason so far as to consider, whether it be not morally impossible, that men, who never were brought up in an University, and scarcely ever had the full instruction of a Grammar-school, which may be said of the most of your Ministers, should without any premeditation pray incomparably better than our Churchmen, who have had the best means and opportunities in the World to improve their parts and abilities? And whether an extemporary Prayer whined out (I beg your pardon if that word offend you) by an illiterate man, should infinitely surpass all the Prayers of the Common-prayer-book, which have been compiled by some of the wisest and most Judicious Divines that ever England could boast of.  E. D. 
How strangely you talk now, as if it were impossible for any man to pray well that hath not been bred at the Universities?  F. P. 
You mistake me Sir, this was none of my assertion, I only said, it was morally impossible, that illetrate men should pray incomparably better than those that have been brought up at the Universities, whose whole business and employment it is to understand the Scripture, and to be conversant in those studies that most conduce to true Godliness, which surely are the best means to teach them to pray also.  E. D. 
But the Apostles you know were simple illiterate men, and yet they could pray infinitely better than all the Rabbis, and all the great Doctors of the Synagogue.  F. P. 
I grant you that, but withal desire you would consider, that though the Apostles were illiterate men, yet were they extraordinary men, called and sent by God in an extraordinary manner, to bring about an extraordinary work, yea, a Work greater than that of the Creation itself; they were by their Ministry to change and renew the face of the whole World, to pluck the false Gods from their Temples, to beat down their Altars, to silence their Oracles, to abolish their Worship, to root out their Customs, to overcome their Prejudices, and to oppose and defeat a Religion, of as long standing as the World itself; a Religion that was in full possession of the Spirits of all men, and which by consequence could engage for her defence whatsoever was authoritative, great or powerful amongst all Nations. They were to be the Planters of a new Religion in the World, to brave and challenge all the power of Princes, to stand the shock of the Sophisms of Philosophers, and the Politics of Statesmen; to stem the violent torrent of the Mobile, and to hold out against the Persecutions of all the wicked. Now that they might be qualified and capacitated for this strange and wonderful undertaking, God was pleased to endow them with many miraculous Gifts and Powers, as of Prophesying, speaking all sorts of Languages, working of Miracles, etc. in order to which the Holy Ghost, who is the true and alone Spirit of Prayer, came down upon them, in a visible and miraculous manner. Which things being so, for you to fetch an Argument from the Example of the Apostles, either in respect of their Person, Mission or extraordinary and miraculous Gifts, and apply the same to your Ministers, is everywhit as improper, as if you should go about to prove, that you or I can stop the Sun in his Course, because Joshua did so.  E. D. 
I never intended by producing the Example of the Apostles, to prove our Ministers equal to them, as to their extraordinary gifts and graces; neither do I suppose, will you dare to compare the Coiners of your Liturgy or Common-prayer, with those holy Men, the Apostles of our Lord and Saviour?  F. P. 
I never did; I only said, that the Compilers of our Liturgy, were some of the most Pious and Learned men that ever England did afford.  E. D. 
They were no better than bigoted Papists.  F. P. 
How can that be, when it is known that they suffered Perscution, nay, Martyrdom itself, in the defence of the Protestant Religion, and sealed and ratified the Common-prayer, they had composed, with their Blood?  E. D. 
But, pray Sir, who gave them the power to compose the Common-prayer-book?  F. P. 
They had their Power and Authority from God and the King.  E. D. 
I shall be glad to hear you prove it.  F. P. 
That I will Sir, for it is no such difficult matter as you may suppose. I say therefore, first, that they had their power from God; for they being Bishops and Governors of the Church, had an unquestionable Power and Commission, by virtue of their Charge and Office, to redress and reform whatsoever was amiss in the Divine Service; and forasmuch as in some foregoing Ages the Prayers of the Church had been corrupted and adulterated, by inserting doubtful Stories and Legends, with a superfluous multiplicity of Responsals, Prayers to the Blessed Virgin and other Saints, Prayers for the Dead, vain Repetitions, Commemorations and Synodals, etc. they very wisely and prudently cast away all that was Popish and Superslitious, retaining only what was sound, ancient and edifying, and added some Prayers that were truly Apostolical and Primitive. And besides, they had a special Order and Command from King Edward. VI authorising them so to  E. D. 
I find all your Discourse comes to this, that the Compilers of your Common-prayer-book, only chopped and changed the Romish Liturgy, and out of it, with some Additions of their own, patched up the Liturgy which is now used by the Church of England, and which you do so much admire. Now you know the Popish Liturgy is no other than their Mass-book, which I think might, to much better purpose, have been quite laid aside, than reformed and patched up again.  F. P. 
I am not of your opinion, and the Reasons that hinder me are these: First, Those Holy Men we are speaking of, had no Power or Authority committed to them to plant or institute a new Religion, but only to reform the Abuses that were crept into the Church, and the Corruptions of the public Worship of God, which is the chiefest part of the Christian Religion: now in this case it is evident, that it was none of their duty or office to take away the whole public Service or Liturgy, which indeed at that time was very corrupt, though not to that degree, but that some good was still found amongst it, but only to change what was amiss, to supply the defects of it, and cast away whatsoever was corrupt or superfluous. Secondly, It was great wisdom in them to observe the mean between two extremes, by shunning on the one hand a Spirit of bitterness and hatred against the Party they reform from; and on the other hand avoiding a sinful compliance with the corruptions of those, who were so unwilling to part with their Idolatry and Superstition. And farther to illustrate my Argument, I must tell you, that the Reformers of our Church acted according to this commendable Maxim of Christian Charity and Moderation, viz. That in love and condescension to the Church of Rome, we ought not to reject any thing used by them, but what is found contrary to the Word of God: whereas the Reformers of your Party proceed according to this Rule, That in hatred and detestation of Popery, we ought not to admit the least thing the Papists make use of in their Divine Service; and only for this reason, because they use it. Now I would fain know of you, which of these two you take to be the most Christian and Charitable method? and whether the Principle our Reformers went by, be not preferable to that of your Party? The Reason is evident beyond dispute; because our Reformers, by retaining what was good and of primitive Purity in the public Service of the Romanists, and rejecting only what was manifestly corrupt and superstitious, they left a door open for them, and, as it were, friendly invited them, to leave their Adulterous Church, and to enter into our Communion.  E. D. 
But pray tell me what great or good effect this Condescension did ever yet produce; for I never understood that this their moderate and designing way of Reforming the Church, has been a means to persuade the Papists to leave their Idolatry and Superstitions, and to become Converts to their Church.  F. P. 
If I should grant you that the number of Popish Converts to our Church, is not very considerable; will it follow from thence, that the means used for so good and charitable an End, were undue or unlawful? For though God hitherto hath not been pleased to bless these good means, with the greatest success that might be wished for, yet we know not how soon he may; especially, considering that we had never more reason to expect, the total downfall of Popery; which, according to outward appearance, can no way so probably be brought about, as by the Papists embracing the Protestant Religion. Let us therefore take heed of deriding (as you seem to do) those lawful, moderate, and Christianlike methods, the Church of England hath made use to facilitate the Papists Conversion.  E. D. 
I find then, you take your Common-prayer to be a lawful, moderate, and Christianlike method or means to facilitate the Conversion of the Papists.  F. P. 
I do so; and I question not but, in due time, it will prove very effectual that way to the stopping of the mouths of all gainsayers.  E. D. 
Ay, you may look for it long enough, I suppose; and if by great change it should ever prove to be an effectual means, I dare say, for all that, it will never be a lawful one; for, to speak freely, and without mincing the matter, I am of opinion, that, though it may be lawful to use some Form of Prayer, yet it is altogether unlawful to use that Form, which is now in vogue amongst you.  F. P. 
Then I find you are not altogether irreconcilable to the Lawfulness of Praying by Forms; but you are not satisfied with the Forms we use. I shall be glad to hear the Grounds of your dissatisfaction; as hoping by this means to have an opportunity offered me, to enlarge myself more in the Praise of our Common-prayer, than hitherto I have had occasion to do.  E. D. 
I know the humour of Frenchmen is to be complaisant and complimental; and so very probably you design, in compliment to the Church of England, to fall down to the Common-prayer, the great Idol of the English Clergy; as you have already expressed your great Respects for their dull and profane Priests.  F. P. 
I beg of you, Sir, let us discourse without Prejudice or Passion; and be so kind as to tell me calmly and friendly, what Objections you have against our Common-prayer-book in particular.  E. D. 
Before I give you the Particular Objections I have against the Common-prayer-book, I shall premise this General Observation, That your Common-prayer is so bad, that there is nothing good in it; no, nor any thing that is so much as tolerable.  F. P. 
How strangely you and I differ in Opinion? As for my part; I really think there is nothing in it, but what is very good.  E. D. 
If you can prove that, as I desire you would, Eris mihi magnus Apollo; for indeed you will do more than all your Clergymen that ever I discoursed with, and more than all the Books that treat of this Subject, have been able to do.  F. P. 
If the case be so indeed, I should be loath to undertake the task: For if none of our Clergy, that you have discoursed with, nor any of those excellent Books, written in the Defence of our Liturgy, have been able to convince you of the goodness and usefulness thereof, it would be folly for me to attempt it; for I am very sensible, that my Parts and Abilities, are far below any one of our Clergy, that you have had to deal with; and to speak the truth, 'tis from them and their Writings I have acquired the best part of that little learning, and insight into these things, that I have.  E. D. 
I hope you are as modest a Man as your discourse would import; besides, being a French Protestant, you, as such, can have neither public nor private Reason, to bear any ill-will to our Party; wherefore I look upon you as an unbiass'd Person, without Prejudice or Partiality, and consequently fit to be discoursed with, about the matter in question, between us: And indeed all this makes me the more desirous to hear the Arguments you can produce for proving your Assertion, That there is nothing in the Common-prayer-book, but what is very good.  F. P. 
I thought all this while that you intended to propound your Objections against the Common-prayer; and that my only business would have been to Answer them.  E. D. 
I suppose we may do both these things at once; for if you please to tell me what you find so extraordinary good in the Common-prayer, I shall also, on my part, declare what I dislike in it.  F. P. 
Be it so. And to the end we may proceed with some order, let us cursorily read over the Common-prayer-book, which I have here with me.  E. D. 
This indeed will be a good way to enable us to judge the better concerning it; and therefore I am very free to run it over with you; only must desire you, not to take it ill, if now and then I interrupt you with my Objections against any part of it.  F. P. 
What you desire, is contained in our agreement for according to it; I am to tell you, what I approve of in our Liturgy; and you are to tell me, what you dislike in it, by propounding your Objections against it.  E. D. 
Very well; and in so doing we shall finely Anatomize these Relics of Popery. But it is your turn to begin.  F. P. 
The first thing I meet with in our Common-prayer-book, are some Sentences of the Holy Scriptures, of which the Minister is to read one or more, before he proceeds to the Prayers or Devotions, which seems to me to be very proper and useful; for certainly we can never better begin God's Service, than with his own Words.  
Next follows an Exhortation, wherein is represented to the People, the End of their present assembling or meeting together; which is, as the Exhortation expresseth it, To confess their Sins, to render Thanks to God, to set forth his Praise, and to ask those things that be necessary either for Soul or Body: and towards the end thereof, we are informed and directed how to perform these holy and bounden Duties, viz. sincerely and reverently, with a pure heart, and humble voice: which caution is very necessary, if we consider how prone Men are, without any due preparation of themselves, to rush into the presence of the great God, who is a consuming fire, and before whom they ought to appear with the most reverential awe and trembling; as likewise how apt we are to utter any thing before him, without considering, that he is in Heaven, and we on Earth; and how negligent we generally are, in disposing and qualifying ourselves, for the acceptable performance of the Sacred Duties of our Religious Worship.  E. D. 
So far all is pretty tolerable; but by and by, we shall meet with a great deal of stuff.  F. P. 
Not to insist now upon your plain contradicting of yourself; for whereas but just now, you positively asserted, that there was nothing, so much as tolerable in our Liturgy, you now plainly confess the contrary; I shall only desire you, when we come to those places, where your great deal of stuff lies, that you would stop me, for I shall be glad to hear the Objections you have against any part of it; and in the mean time I proceed to speak of the Confession, which is the next thing that occurs in our Liturgy. The Minister and People having been thus stirred up by the foregoing Exhortation to compose their Thoughts, and prepare their Hearts for a due offering up of their Morning or Evening Sacrifice; the next thing they do, is, to fall down on their knees, confessing in a solemn and humble manner their Sins unto Almighty God, earnestly imploring his Grace and Mercy for the Pardon of them. And this, according to my apprehension, is very proper and necessary in our approaches to God; for since it is our Sins that separate between God and us, and hid his face from us; we can do no better than, in the first place, to beg of our most merciful Father the Remission of them, that he may utterly efface them, and put them out of the way of interrupting the free course of his gracious and benign Communications and Influences. If I regard, saith the Psalmist, iniquity in my heart, the Lord will not hear my prayer, Psal. 66. v. 16. Moreover, it is very reasonable, before we beg any favour from God, to entreat for a removal of those Evils we groan under, viz. the guilt and punishment of our Sins.  E. D. 
I suppose you did not observe this method in the Common-prayer the Protestants use in France.  F. P. 
Yes, but we did. Our Ministers always begin Divine Service with a Sentence of the Holy Scriptures; and I shall not scruple to tell you, that it is expressly the same with which the Roman Office of the Mass beginneth, (and yet we have had the good luck, never to be censured as Popishly affected upon this account;) and in the next place, they proceed to exhort and invite the People to accompany them to the Throne of the heavenly Grace, repeating after them a Confession of Sins, in substance much the same with that in the English Liturgy.  E. D. 
But your Ministers did not read these Prayers out of a Book, as the scandalous and lazy Clergy here in England do.  F. P. 
I find you make it your business to affront our Clergy at every turn, and suppose the most abusive and scurrilous Language to be good enough for them; yet question much, whether you would take it well to be paid in the same coin; however, I cannot but tell you my thoughts, which incline me to believe you have learned these ill manners from your own Minister.  E. D. 
What, I hope you will not accuse our Minister of being unmannerly? For I dare say he is as courteous and civil, as affable and obliging, and, in a word, as much a Gentleman as any Man I know of.  F. P. 
He shown himself to be so indeed, when the other day being in his Pulpit, thought fit to interrupt the series of his discourse to give the lie, to a person entering into the Meeting, who, it seems, had reported something, as he conceived, to his disadvantage.  E. D. 
Ay, this is a fine story, forged at pleasure by some of your Clergymen, to expose and make our Ministers odious.  F. P. 
'Tis so far from being a story, that I am ready to justify the truth of it, by many credible Ear-witnesses. But to return to the matter in hand; though first I must tell you in answer to your question, that our French Ministers always use their Books in repeating of their Common-prayer, reading it word by word, and yet have been so happy, as to escape the Censure of being either scandalous or lazy upon that account.  E. D. 
I only ask you this question by the buy. But let us see what follows.  F. P. 
After the Confession, which is the last thing we have spoke of, follows the Absolution, wherein the Minister declares and pronounces to all those that truly repent and unfeignedly believe the holy Gospel, the Absolution of their sins; and no doubt, supposing our Confession to have been sincere and hearty, the Minister has good reason to declare our Sins are absolved, upon these two Evangelical conditions of Faith and Repentance. But to the end no scruple may be left in this matter, be pleased to observe, that the Minister doth not here Absolve in his own name, but publisheth a Pardon in Nomine Domini, in the Name and Authority of the Lord God. He doth not say I, but He pardoneth, etc.  E. D. 
This Form of Absolution, as being only declaratory, may pass well enough: for, as I understand it now, the Minister only declares that Pardon may be had, and on what terms. All this may be born with, and therefore you may go on.  F. P. 
The Lord's-prayer follows next; and that, if I be not greatly mistaken, very properly: First, because having hitherto prepared ourselves by Confession and Absolution, we may now more freely take the boldness to call God our Father, and address ourselves to him in that perfect Form of Prayer which his Beloved Son has taught us. Secondly, the Lord's-prayer being the groundwork and foundation, on which all our Prayers and Petitions should be built, we can never do better, than to begin our Prayers with this, which was composed by the only begotten Son of God, and indicted by Wisdom itself, to be a pattern and model to all our Devotions.  E. D. 
But you cannot say that you make use of the Lord's-prayer in the first place, and before your other Petitions, since you have already used several before it.  F. P. 
Whatsoever has been hitherto performed either by Minister or People, is rather a Preparation for Prayer, than Prayer itself: for if you—  E. D. 
You need say no more; for indeed it is no great matter whether you use it first or last: the Question only is, whether it ought to be used at all? I own it to be a matter of great moment, which therefore ought not to be rashly determined; though, for my part, I am more inclinable to take it as a directory for the matter of our Prayer, than for a Form; and the rather, because one of the Evangelists seems to intimate as much, by ushering in the Lord's-prayer with these words of our Saviour, After this manner, therefore pray ye, Luke 6. v. 9  F. P. 
I fear your Minister is not so cautious as you are in this matter; for in some of his Sermons he hath, if not rashly, at least very positively asserted, that the Lord's-prayer is not to be used as a Form of Prayer, but only as a Direction; and consequently takes great care not to make use of it in his Meeting; though, as I have been informed from very credible hands, he useth it in his Family-prayers; but how to reconcile P with B in this case; P, when he is in his Meeting, and B when he is at home, I leave to your consideration; I only wish there be not some worldly interest at the bottom that sways him. And as for what you allege, that one of the Evangelists saith, after this manner, etc. I answer, that these words do not forbid or oppose the using of it as a Form, or the repeating of it in the selfsame words; for he that repeats the same words, saith after this manner, though every one that saith after this manner, do not always repeat the same words. So that he who saith the very words themselves, hath two Evangelists to warrant and justify him; whereas he that does not, hath but one. I shall only add, that the Lord's-prayer, is used by the Church of Christ all the World over; and it cannot but be very comfortable and beneficial to us to bear a part in this great and Universal Consort.  E. D. 
But suppose I should grant you, that the Lord's-prayer may be used in the Morning; yet you cannot but allow me, that it ought not to be used at Night, because it is ridiculous to beg our daily Bread of God, when we have eaten our Supper, and are ready to go to bed.  F. P. 
Though this Objection be too light and frothy, and not at all comporting with the Sacredness of the things we are treating of; yet shall not this hinder me from answering it seriously; and the rather, because I am pretty well assured you have borrowed it from one of your Neighbouring Ministers, who not long since Preaching in this Town, produced it as a most convincing and unanswerable Argument, to prove, that the Lords-prayer was not to be used as a Form: but certainly this Gentleman shown hereby, that he was no great Textuary, since any Woman, except perhaps his own Mother, (who, I am told, has been the only Tutor he ever had) could have taught him, that by Bread in this place, as in many other Texts of Scripture, we are not only to understand Meat and Drink, but also Repose and Sleep, Clothes and Shelter, Health and Wealth, and, in a word, whatsoever is necessary to support and supply our frail natures. To this I might add, that the word we render Daily, according to its most proper and exact signification, does not denote the present time, but that to come; so that when we pray, Give us this day our daily bread, 'tis as much as if we should say, Vouchsafe us all those things that are necessary and sufficient for the support of the remaining part of our lives: and this we pray that we may receive this day, that is, as St. Luke interprets it, Day by day. Lastly, I might also here take notice, that by Bread, we are not only to understand our Bodily sustenance, but also the food of our Souls.  E. D. 
These Observations of yours I must confess are new things to me, and more than ever I heard before. But I desire you to proceed.  F. P. 
After the Lord's Prayer follow some short and proper Ejaculations, for the Divine Assistance in the work we are about; and in which the People bear a part, the Minister praying in the words of holy David, O Lord, open thou our lips; and the People answering, And our mouth shall show forth thy praise. The Minister again, O Lord, make speed to save us; and the People, O Lord, make haste to help us. Neither can you, I suppose, find fault with this Order of the Church, in assigning this place to these holy Breathe, or ejaculatory Desires, viz. before the Psalms, Lessons and Collects, and immediately after the Confession and Absolution; thereby intimating that our Sins have shut our Mouths and closed our Lips; putting us into an utter incapacity of praising his most holy Name, and expressing our bounden thankfulness, till he himself be pleased to open our Mouths and Lips to utter his glory. Again, when we cast an eye upon the Sacredness of those Duties we are about, and the great opposition we may expect from the Devil and our evil Hearts, in the performance of them, we have all the reason in the World to cry mightily to God, to make haste to save us and deliver us; to the end that by his Divine assistance we may be enabled worthily to celebrate his praise, and acceptably perform the great Work we are engaged in.  E. D. 
These short Sentences you so much commend, forasmuch as they are all taken out of Scripture, are well enough in themselves: but I can no ways approve this chopping and mincing of Prayers between the Minister and the People, for this makes them to be liker Charms than Christian Prayers.  F. P. 
Well, you are a wonderful Christian, if I may judge of you by your Charitable and Evangelical expressions: for, if from the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh, I find you have as good an opinion of our Church as your Minister hath.  E. D. 
Pray, what is that you have to say against our Minister?  F. P. 
Nothing at all, for indeed I am ashamed for his sake to mention it.  E. D. 
Speak out man, I know what you would be at; is it not this, that our Minister hath said the same, viz. that your Prayers are liker Charms than Christian prayers?  F. P. 
I will not be positive that he used the selfsame expressions: but this I dare affirm, that he used some as bad, if not worse, and which have a great affinity with these words of yours.  E. D. 
Pray, Sir, tell me plainly, what it was he said?  F. P. 
Since you will needs have it, I shall tell you, that he was so kind and charitable as to imply in one of his Sermons, that our Cathedral was the Devil's Chapel. These are his words, God has no Church, but the Devil has a Chapel; I had almost said, a Cathedral. A sublime and worthy Sentence, full of Christian Love and Charity, and well becoming such a Minister of the Gospel. And if we join your Aphorism to his, we may challenge the World to show us any thing like it; for so it will make out this favourable Judgement of our Church, God has no Church, but the Devil has a Chapel; I had almost said, a Cathedral; and the Prayers that are used there, are liker Charms, than Christian prayers.  E. D. 
I don't matter what you say or judge of me, but your having such frequent flings at our Minister gives me great reason to suspect, you have a grudge or secret hatred against him.  F. P. 
I can assure you 'tis far from that; for I am so free from bearing any ill-will towards him, that I can safely desire all the harm I wish him may fall upon myself: and I sincerely protest, that the only motive which makes me reflect upon some of his abusive expressions is, the love I have for that Church which he is so eagerly bend to expose and vilify; and indeed who could see his Mother so grossly abused, without being moved at it.  E. D. 
Seeing you are so nice and squeamish, I shall henceforth avoid any expressions that may offend or give you an occasion to reflect upon our Minister or myself.  F. P. 
I could wish it were in your power to use that moderation, though in doing it, you would do no more than what I have already several times begged of you; and had you but complied with my reiterated desires, you would have spared me the trouble of representing to you the Sarcastical Language your Minister has very often and very unreasonably made use of against us.  E. D. 
In kindness to you I shall propound my Objection in other terms. I say therefore, that I cannot approve, that the People should answer the Minister, and by turns repeat some part of the public Prayers; for though I know it was allowed amongst the Jews to sing by turns, answering one another, yet I cannot find that the same order was ever approved of among Christians.  F. P. 
After thanks returned for your kindness to me, I must tell you that your Objection is so far from making for you, that it makes against you. For as I perceive, you are not well acquainted with the order the Jews observed in their public Worship, because if so, you would never have produced this Argument to condemn the practice of our Church. True it is, that it was the custom of the Jews to sing by turns, and answer one another; but you never observed that this was a privilege granted to the Priests and Levites only: now this Argument of yours plainly justifies the order of our Church; for if the Priests and Levites under the Old Law had the Prerogative of bearing a part in offering up the public Prayers and Praises, none can deny, but that Christians, both Ministers and People, have the same, if not a greater, privilege; forasmuch as every true Christian is a Priest, and that of a higher order than those under the Old Law; for if we will believe St. Peter, 1 Ep. chap. 2. vers. 9 We are a chosen Generation, a royal Priesthood: and John, Revel. 1.6. declares that, Jesus Christ has made us Kings and Priests unto God.  E. D. 
I perceive than you take it to be a great honour or privilege for Christians to have leave to answer their Ministers, and to have a share with them in repeating the public Prayers.  F. P. 
I do so; and have great reason for it too.  E. D. 
I know well that you Churchmen, both Ministers and People, are very ambitious of honour; but this is not the thing we must look for, especially in our Prayers, but rather edification and benefit; now what benefit can you propound to yourself from this answering of your Minister, and pronouncing some part of the public Prayers?  F. P. 
The benefit which thereby accrues to us is very considerable; for by this means we do not only express our full consent to all the Minister's Prayers, without which we cannot reasonably expect any advantage from them: but besides, by this method of our Church we captivate the People's attention, restrain their vain and rambling thoughts, and oblige them to be attentive to what the Minister saith, that they may be ready to return the proper Responsals. Whereas when the People bear no share in the Divine Service, and have no part to act in it, they are more at leisure to entertain vain and frivolous fancies, and too too often profane and lascivious thoughts come in flocks to devour their Sacrifice: and to tell you my mind plainly, I take it, that the neglect of these Responsals, is the true cause of so much inadvertency, lazy postures and drowziness, as now commonly discover themselves in those who frequent the House of God, and appear in his presence, whom the holy Angels adore with veiled faces; which as it is a dishonour to God and a discouragement to the Minister, so it is of great prejudice to their own Souls. Now to put the question to yourself, you cannot deny me, but that way of Praying which most engageth our attention, is the best, and therefore aught to be preferred before any other; and it is evident beyond dispute, that that way of Praying, where the People bear a part and answer in their course, is the most proper to make them attentive and heedful to the Work they are about; and therefore I leave you to judge, how commendable the Practice of our Church is, in this regard.  E. D. 
We shall by and by have a further opportunity of speaking to this particular; wherefore you may now proceed if you please.  F. P. 
After the short Prayers and Responsals now mentioned, follows the Doxology; Glory be to the Father, and to the Son, etc. which is both a sound Form of praising and glorifying the eternal and tri-une God, Father, Son, and Holy Ghost; and a short Creed or Confession of our Faith, concerning the Trinity in Unity. And if you demand of me, why it is placed here in the close of the Penitential part of our Prayers? I answer, Because having before confessed our Sins, and humbly entreated mercy and remission for them; and being now in full hope that our merciful Father has graciously heard and granted our requests, we immediately change our Prayers into Praises, and our Supplications into Thanksgivings, and with transports of Joy and Gratitude we sound forth our Glory be to the Father, for it is he who pardons our Sins; and to the Son, because 'tis for his sake they are pardoned; and to the Holy Ghost, who alone assures us thereof. And the Minister afterwards, as if this were not enough, (because in the Gloria Patri we more particularly worship the Trinity in Unity, and not the Unity in Trinity,) calls upon the People again to adore the Unity, saying, Praise ye the Lord; to which the People answer, The Lord's Name be praised; which words contain the Christian Hallelujahs or Songs of praise and triumph, for the absolution and remission of their Sins: or else, if you will, you may take them for a Preface or Entrance to the Reading of the Psalms.  E. D. 
You may take them for what you please; as for my part, I don't concern myself about them, and therefore you may go on.  F. P. 
In the Morning Service the Psalms are ushered in with the Venite, O come let us sing unto the Lord, etc. as being an Exhortatory Psalm, whereby we continue mutually to invite and encourage each other worthily to adore and worship the Eternal God. And that this Psalm is very well placed here, appears, first, Because by it we are informed what we are to do; and, secondly, how we ought to behave ourselves in the performance of the succeeding Offices or Duties. The former of these, viz. what we are to do, we have in these words; Sing unto the Lord; Come before his presence; Serve and worship him; and, lastly, Hear his Voice, or, his most Holy Word. The latter, How we are to perform these Duties, is thus expressed, We are to sing unto the Lord, hearty rejoicing in the strength of our salvation; to come before his presence with thanksgiving, with a grateful sense and humble acknowledgement of all his Benefits; serve and worship him with all becoming Reverence and Veneration; falling down on our faces, and kneeling before the Lord our Maker; not hardening our hearts when we hear his voice, but receiving it with Faith and Obedience. And thus we proceed to the Psalms appointed for the day, the Church having ordered them to be read over once every Month.  E. D. 
Pray tell me the reason why they are appointed to be read oftener than any other part of Holy Scripture?  F. P. 
Because they are most accommodated for Prayer and Devotion, and consequently of a more continual use than any other part of God's Word. The ignorant will find here profitable instruction and information; the wicked earnest exhortations and severe warnings; the poor and afflicted will meet with suitable Prayers and Petitions to beg the good things they want, as well as to deprecate the evils they groan under; and the rich and prosperous will be furnished with Thanksgivings and joyful Songs of Praise. Indeed the whole contexture of them shows them to be fitted and suited to all persons in all circumstances, whether young or old, Kings or Subjects Nobles or Commons, in prosperity or adversity, in a wealthy and comfortable, or in a pinching and afflicted condition; and they are proportioned with that exactness to these several circumstances, as if they ha● been made on purpose to express an● represent every one's particular sta●● and condition.  E. D. 
I must own there is somewhat of truth in what you have said concerning the Psalms; but one thing I find that spoils all, which is your silly way of reading them by turns, the Minister reading one Verse, and the People answering another; which certainly is a confused, if not a scandalous way of praising God.  F. P. 
What you are pleased to call confused and scandalous, is in my opinion very edifying and heavenly; and my opinion is grounded upon Reason; for this way of reading or singing Psalms by turns, as hath been partly already hinted, is extremely well suited to excite each others Affections, and to increase our Emulation, making us, as it were, to strive to outvie each other in Zeal and Devotion, and to contend who shall worship and praise God with most earnestness and fervency. Now this holy Emulation cannot but be very profitable and edifying; yea, and Heavenly too, because it comes nearest to the Pattern of Heavenly and Angelical Adoration; for thus we read that the Seraphims cry to each other by turns, Holy, holy, holy, Lord God of Hosts, etc. Isai. 6.3.  E. D. 
Well, but I have another Objection against your way of reading the Psalms; and that is, that at the end of every one of them you repeat the Gloria Patri, Glory be to the Father, and to the Son, etc. which certainly is a very vain repetition.  F. P. 
I am not of your opinion; for if you observe this Doxology is not applied twice to the same subject; for though we repeat it constantly at the closing of every Psalm, yet, because they most commonly differ and vary in their subjects, for you will hardly find two Psalms together of the same Argument; some being Psalms of Doctrine and Instruction, some of Confession of Sins, some of Profession of Faith, some of Supplication and Prayer, some of Praises and Thanksgiving. And forasmuch as every one of these Arguments contain sufficient and powerful motives to stir up our Hearts and Affections to bless and glorify God, therefore the closing of every Psalm with this Doxology, Glory be to the Father, &c. cannot be judged vain and improper, but rather very proper and edifying.  
After the reading or singing of the Psalms, we proceed to read the Lessons, the one out of the Old Testament, and the other out of the New; which order affords this great conveniency, amongst several others, that by this means the Old Testament is read over once, and the New Testament thrice, every Year.  E. D. 
This is a great mistake of yours, whether wilful or no, I shall not inquire, for the Book of Chronicles is never read, as well as many particular Chapters of some other Books.  F. P. 
I confess the Books of Chronicles are not read, but the reason of it is plain and evident, because for the most part they are but a repetition of the Books of Kings, which are read in their course: and if any Chapters of other Books be omitted, 'tis either because they contain little else but a repetition of what is gone before, or because they treat of the Genealogies, Ceremonies and Laws of the Jews, which chief concerned them, as being now antiquated and of little use under the Gospel.  E. D. 
Pray why do you read the Apocryphal Books then, which certainly are of as little use and concern as those Books and Chapters you omit in the course of your Lessons?  F. P. 
I don't think so, for though they be not Canonical, they are such as may be read with Profit and Edification, in that they contain many true and pious Histories or Relations of the Lives and Actions of several great and excellent Persons, whose worthy and glorious Examples are very proper to affect our Hearts, and raise up in us an ardent Desire and holy Emulation to imitate their transcendent Virtues, to express their untainted Innocence, and copy their unshaken Constancy, Courage and Magnanimity. Moreover we find there most exquisite Precepts of Morality, directing and informing of us in the Practice of all virtuous Actions, teaching us how to order our Lives, Manners and Conversation, and recommending to us the loveliness and excellence of Virtue, as well as representing the deformity and misery of Vice and Wickedness.  E. D. 
But, if I be not mistaken, you do not read the first and second Lesson immediately one after another.  F. P. 
True, for after the first Morning Lesson we say or sing the Te Deum, We praise thee, O God, etc. or the Benedicite; O all ye works of the Lord, Bless ye the Lord, etc. both of which are the most excellent and heavenly Hymns that ever were framed by Men; each of them being a most complete Form of Thanksgiving, Praise and Adoration. After the second Morning Lesson we repeat the Song of Zacharias, or else the 100 Psalms, both of which are not only Divine and unquestionable, but also extremely proper to inflame our Hearts with Love and Gratitude to God, for all his unutterable Goodness bestowed upon us. In the Evening Service, after the first Lesson, the Church appoints the Song of the Blessed Virgin, or the 98 Psalms; and after the second Lesson the 67 Psalms, or the Song of old Simeon; all which for the Reasons just now mentioned, cannot but be acceptable to God, and edifying to those that attend his Worship.  E. D. 
But what probable reason can you give for inserting and intermixing these Songs of Praise with your Lessons?  F. P. 
The Church has appointed the Repetition of these Sacred and Seraphic Hymns, to be used as a solemn Form of Thanksgiving, for those unspeakable Mercies, and heavenly Blessings and good things, revealed and promised to us in his Word, newly read to us; and it is but sitting and seemly, that after we have heard God graciously speaking to us, we should in gratitude echo forth our Praises and Thanks to him; and this we do in the Hymns now mentioned.  E. D. 
Some of these Hymns, I think, might be allowed; but there be two thrust in amongst them, which seem to me very improper; and that is the Song of the Virgin Mary, for bearing Christ in her Womb; and that of Old Simeon, for seeing Jesus Christ in the Flesh, and holding him in his Arms: Now since these are extraordinary Cases, which reach none of us; therefore I conclude the use of them somewhat strange and extravagant.  F. P. 
To begin with your first Objection: I readily own that we have not the same occasion to use this Hymn, as the Blessed Virgin had; for God the Word his taking Flesh in her Womb, was a privilege peculiar to her alone: Yet pray consider, that when we in all humility, with Obedience and Faith, receive the Word of God read to us; or as St. Luke phraseth it, Chap. 11.28. When we hear the Word of God, and keep it, we do conceive Christ by Faith; for according to St. Paul's doctrine, Gal. 4.19. 'tis by hearing and keeping the Word of God that Christ is form in us; not Carnally, but Spiritually: Wherefore we are as much obliged, after a due hearing of God's Word, to break forth into a holy Magnificat, My Soul doth magnify the Lord, because Christ is form in us spiritually, as the Blessed Virgin was, because Christ was form in her according to the Flesh.  
And as to your second Objection, I might tell you, that this Hymn of Old Simeon is frequently used in our French Protestant Churches, as being commonly sung every Lord's-day: but if this Authority do not satisfy you, I shall give you a reason why the Church of England, after the reading of the second Lesson at Evening-prayer, order the rehearsing the Song of this Blessed Man; for though indeed in the reading of the New Testament we do not behold Christ with our bodily Eyes, as Simeon did, yet may we with the spiritual Eyes of our Faith see that Salvation he then saw; and that more clearly, because it is now more fully manifested: and therefore upon this account we have the same reason to say with him; Lord, now lettest thou thy servant to departed in peace, for mine Eyes have seen thy Salvation, etc.  E. D. 
I perceive you have a peculiar way of applying the Scriptures to yourselves: But let us examine what is next.  F. P. 
The next thing that follows is, the Confession of our Faith, commonly called the Apostle's Creed.  E. D. 
But, I suppose, you do not believe the Apostles made it?  F. P. 
Though strong and convincing Arguments might be alleged to prove them the Inditers or Composers of it; yet I am resolved, at present, not to differ with you about it; and the rather, because I am sure you will agree with me; that as long as it comprehends nothing but what the Apostles have taught us to believe, and believed themselves, it may very well, of just right, be called the Apostle's Creed.  E. D. 
But what particular reason hath your Church to place it after the Lessons?  F. P. 
Because having heard some Chapters out of the Word of God read to us; it is but fit that we now make a public profession of our Belief of the main and fundamental Truths therein contained; which cannot be better done, than by repeating the Articles of the Apostle's Creed; which is not only a Compendium of the Gospel, but of all Holy Writ.  E. D. 
But why is it you repeat it so often, twice a day at least, Morning and Evening?  F. P. 
Truly it can never be repeated too often; and I am sure our French Protestant's thought so, whose Example, if it should not convince you, I hope the following Reasons may; because it serves to express our Loyalty to God, and our Unity among ourselves, and with the Catholic Church; it is a Touchstone to discover, whether we continue in the number of Christ's Disciples, and in Unity and Concord with one another; it is our Watchword, our Badge, Mark and Character, whereby we may distinguish Friends from Foes, true Believers from Infidels and Heretics; and therefore, as was said before, it cannot be too often repeated. But before we proceed further, we may here take notice, that upon certain Festival-days the Athanasian Creed is read, instead of that of the Apostles.  E. D. 
Is there any thing more in the Athanasian Creed, than in that of the Apostles?  F. P. 
Only this, that in the Athanasian Creed, the Mysteries of the most Blessed Trinity, and of the Incarnation of the Son of God, are more at large asserted, explained and unfolded, and that in the most sound, plain and perspicuous terms, those sublime and incomprehensible Mysteries are capable of. After which, we proceed to this devout, hearty and mutual Salutation of the Minister and the People; the Minister saying, The Lord be with you; and the People answering, And with thy Spirit.  E. D. 
For my part, I cannot approve of the Minister and People thus saluting one another, because it looks too much like Compliment; which though perhaps it may agree very well with your French humour, yet is not at all agreeable to mine.  F. P. 
If you'll quarrel at this, you must quarrel with the Word of God, and with the language of the Holy Ghost in Scripture; for most certain it is, that this Salutation is taken thence, viz. what the Minister saith out of the Book of Ruth 2.4. and used by St. Paul, 2 Thess. 3.16. and what the People answer out of the Epistle to the Galat. 6.18. Which words, whether considered in themselves, or with respect to the end they are designed for, are of exceeding great and good use; for now we are entering upon a new part of Divine Service, viz. that of Prayer; but seeing that without God's aid and assistance it is impossible, either for Minister or People to acquit themselves rightly of this duty, which is of so great concern to the whole Congregation, Minister as well as People; wherefore they begin by praying each for other, humbly supplicating God to assist them in their present undertaking: the Minister beginning with this short Prayer for the People, The Lord be with you; lifting up your Hearts, and raising your Devotions, that my Prayers may not be in vain for you; and the People, in acknowledgement of the Minister's hearty good will, and as being themselves extremely concerned in the work he is about, answer his Prayer, with this good wish, And with thy Spirit; to the end your Prayers may be so fervent, that you and we may reap the fruit and benefit of those Petitions you are now going to offer up to God for the whole Congregation. And having thus, both Minister and People, implored the Divine Presence and Assistance in the great Work we are entering upon; we do next in a most humble and solemn manner address ourselves to each Person of the most Blessed Trinity to have Mercy upon us, viz. that our Sins and Transgressions may not hinder our Prayers and Petitions from being graciously received and accepted at the Throne of Grace; saying, Lord have mercy upon us. Christ have mercy upon us. Lord have mercy upon us. After which, we address ourselves to God, in that excellent Form of Prayer our Saviour hath taught us.  E. D. 
But methinks, forasmuch as you have used this Prayer already, that the reiterating of it, must needs be accounted a vain repetition, condemned by our Saviour in Matth. 6.6.  F. P. 
True it is, that our Church has appointed the Lord's-prayer to be used more than once in our Liturgy, but that the reiterating of it, cannot come under the lash of those vain repetitions, forbidden by our Saviour, will appear, if you consider, that we repeat it only in each distinct Service of the Church: before we made use of it as a Confirmation, and further assurance of the Absolution of our Sins, and now we repeat it as the ground and foundation of our following Petitions. Besides, the frequent repetition of it, ought not to be called vain, since (as hath been before observed) Christ himself prayed thrice, using the same words; and certainly the best of Prayers cannot be used too often.  E. D. 
But I dare say, if so be the Protestants in France made use of the Lord's-prayer at all; yet they did not repeat it so often as you do.  F. P. 
I have taken notice before, that you are very ready to entertain false Notions concerning our French Protestants, and the same befalls you in this particular; for certain it is, that we always had so great a veneration for the Lord's-prayer, that we believed all our Prayers, whether public or private, were deficient and imperfect without it; and therefore we did always, both in the Church, and at home, conclude all our Prayers with the Lord's-prayer, adding most commonly the Apostle's Creed, and concluding all with the Solemn Blessing.  E. D. 
But when your Minister used it in the Church, I suppos● they did not repeat it often, as yo● do; but were content with saying of it once only.  F. P. 
You are still mistaken; fo● our Ministers do repeat it most commonly thrice, and sometimes more before they come down from th● Pulpit; and according to the Discipline or Canons of our Church, they are bound so to do.  E. D. 
This, I confess, seems strang● to me. But let us proceed to what follows next, and that cursorily too for I begin to be ti●ed with speaking so long to no purpose; for I fin● you will have always something ready at hand to dash my Objections.  F. P. 
That I may not tyre you altogether, I shall dispatch what remains in as few words as possible. The next part of the Liturgy that offers itself, are some interlocutory Petitions, taken out of Holy Scripture: both Minister and People in these short and devout Ejaculations, striving by turns, who shall most move God favourably to incline and hearken to their Petitions; and after these, the whole Congregation do in a humble posture, with united hearts and voices, supplicate our heavenly Father for his grace and favour, for his help and aid, for his safeguard and protection, for the acceptation of their Prayers, and his Divine Blessing, not only for themselves, but also for the King and Queen and Royal Family, for the Church, both Clergy and People, and lastly, for all Mankind: and this, in few words, is the design and contents of the following Collects▪ But I must not forget to observe to you, that upon Wednesdays, Friday and Sundays, we read the Litany.  E. D. 
Pray what is the use o● this Litany? or what is it good for?  F. P. 
I must not, it seems, for fe●… of trespassing upon your patience enlarge myself too much, in representing to you the Excellency o● this Prayer, and therefore shall te●… you, as briefly as I can, the substance and import of it: there is ●… Vice nor Lust, which therein, w● do not pray to be delivered from nor any Grace or Virtue, but w●… desire God to bestow it upon u●… and, in a word, whatsoever is fit ●… be prayed for or deprecated in p●…lick, is contained in this Prayer. ●…ter which follow some Prayers ●… Thanksgivings, to be used upon particular occasions, being extremely well suited to those pious Ends they are intended for; as for Rain, Fair-weather, etc.  E. D. 
But I am sure there is more than this contained in your Common-prayer, and therefore pray do not shut up your Book so soon.  F. P. 
There is something more behind, I confess; but because I am loath to abuse your patience, I hope you will think this general account to be sufficient. What remains unmentioned, are the Collects, Epistles and Gospels; which you cannot but like, as to the matter, because they are the Word of God: And as for their Order, it is admirable, as being so well suited to the particular Days they are appointed for, that by means of them, the Mysteries commemorated upon those days are unfolded, the History represented, or the Example applied to the great benefit and edification of those that truly fear God and desire to improve themselves it saving knowledge, and are willing to imitate the holy Examples o● those faithful Servants of God, wh● are departed this life in his Faith and Fear.  E. D. 
Is this all then?  F. P. 
No: for besides all this, ou● Liturgy contains a Form for the Administration of the Lord's-Supper another for the Public Baptism o● Infants; another for such of ripe● years; as likewise a short Catechism ●… the Order of Confirmation; a For● for the Solemnising of Matrimony the Order for the Visitation of th●… Sick, with the Form of Administering to them the Holy Communion; th● Order for the Burial of the Dead, and the Thanksgiving of Women after Childbirth; and, lastly, a Commination of God's Anger and Judgement against Sinners.  E. D. 
Ay, here's a multiplicity of Forms indeed; but I am confident, if you would speak sincerely and from your heart; you will grant me, that all these Forms are very useless and unnecessary.  F. P. 
If I should grant you this, I must not only speak against my Judgement and Conscience, but also condemn our French Reformed Churches; since it is most certain, that they also have Forms appointed for most of the foresaid occasions: For instance; we have set Forms for Celebrating of the Holy Communion, for the Baptising of Children, for the Solemnising of Matrimony, etc. And lastly, I should condemn and oppose the general sense of our French Protestants, who have always had, and still have a great respect and veneration not only for those Forms last mentioned, but for the whole Body of the English Liturgy.  E. D. 
You are pleased to say so.  F. P. 
And you will be forced to say so too, if you please only to take the trouble to read Dr. Durel's Treatise in Defence of the English Liturgy; for there you will meet with unquestionable Records of the Opinion and Judgement of all the ablest and most learned Divines amongst the French Protestants, who have in all times, and upon all occasions, as far declared themselves for the English Common-prayer, and spoke as highly and favourably of it, as any of the Divines of the Church of England ever did.  E. D. 
I have not Dr. Durel's Book, and therefore cannot satisfy myself by perusing of it; but if you will be pleased to inform me what he saith concerning the Judgement of your French Divines, with respect to our English Liturgy, I shall be glad to hear it.  F. P. 
Dr. Durel, amongst other Testimonies, produceth a Letter of the Reverend Monsieur de l' Angle, at that time one of the Ministers of the Reformed Church of Rouen, a Person of great Worth and Fame; wherein, upon occasion of the happy Restauration of King Charles II. he saith, That his heart leapt for joy, when he was told that the English Liturgy and ancient Discipline was like to be restored. He allegeth another Testimony of Monsieur Gache's, than Minister of Charenton, one of the most eloquent and zealous Preachers the French Reformed Churches ever had, who in one of his Letters declares, That he had read the English Liturgy, and had been wonderfully edified by it. He produceth also a Letter of Monsieur du Bosc, the Minister of Cane, an extraordinary Person for Learning, Eloquence and true Piety; where he declares, That he as much approves of a Minister performing Divine Service, after the way of the Church of England, as he that officiates according to the manner of the French Reformed Churches. Besides these, he sets down the Testimony of Monsieur Bochart the Minister of Alancon, a Man of great Repute and Learning, who declares he found the Liturgy to be very good, and well ordered; as also that of Monsieur Goyon, Minister of Bourdeaux, one of the most grave and learned Divines of all the Province of Aquitain, and greatly versed in Antiquity, in these words: There is not one Minister (saith he) in all the Province of Aquitain, that thinks his Conscience offended by using of the English Liturgy; and declares that those people dream and dote, who are of that Opinion; and those Gentlemen amongst you do extremely wrong us, when they quote us for to foment their Schism, which cannot but be very scandalous.  
But that I may not be further tedious, I shall refer you to the foresaid Book of Dr. Durel, where you will find enough to convince you, that all our worthy Divines, such as Peter du Moulin, Monsieur Drelincourt, Monsieur Daillé, Monsieur Amyraut, etc. have expressed no less Esteem for the English Liturgy, than any Son of the Church of England ever did. To all which Testimonies, I will add that of Spanhemius a French Divine, and sometimes Preacher and Divinity-Reader at Geneva, in his Epistle Dedicatory to the Lord Primate of Ireland, prefixed to the Third Part of his Dubia Evangelica; where commending the Public Worship of God in the Church of England, he declares, that the like is scarcely to be found elsewhere.  E. D. 
According to what you tell me, I cannot believe your French Divines to be Calvinists; for I am confident Calvin was not of their opinion with regard to the English Liturgy.  F. P. 
To the end you may be able to judge what Calvin's opinion was about this matter, I shall refer you to a passage of his, in an Epistle Dedicatory to the Duke of Somerset, Lord Protector during the minority of King Edward VI. which will convince you, I suppose, that he was of the same judgement with the rest of our French Divines; his words are these, Quoad formam Precum & Rituum Ecclesiasticorum, valde probo, ut certa illa exstet, à qua Pastoribus discedere in functione sua non liceat, tam ut consulatur quorundam simplicitati & imperitiae, quam ut certius ita constet omnium inter se Ecclesiarum consensus; postremò etiam ut obviam eatur desultoriae quorundam levitati, qui novationes quasdam affectant. Which may be englished thus, As touching the form of Prayer and Ceremonies of the Church, I do extremely approve, that it be set and fixed, so as it may not be lawful for the Ministers to recede from it, in their function; as well to help and assist the simplicity and unskilfulness of some, as to give a fuller evidence of the consent and uniformity of all the several Congregations; and finally, that by this means, the changeable humour of those that affect novelties may be checked and obviated.  E. D. 
I always thought Calvin had been of the same judgement that we are, though you would seem to persuade me to the contrary. But to make an end of our Discourse at this time, I shall only ask you one question more, and then I have done, which is this, What your French Divines judge concerning us, who for Conscience sake refuse to make use of the Liturgy in our Assemblies, or to frequent the Congregations of those that do?  F. P. 
What you desire you may find in the forementioned Discourse of Dr. Durel, where he sets down this Letter of the Reverend Monsieur Goyon, Minister at Bourdeaux, which is thus translated:  
SIR,  
I Have received your Letter with an extreme satisfaction, as having been informed thereby, both of your own condition, and of that of the Church of England. I must confess that we have been strangely deceived in this Country, by what hath been related to us touching the English Presbyterians. I did always imagine them to be a People that followed the same order we observe in our Churches of France; but it seems they are very far from it. The Description you give of them, shows them to be a strange Sect, not fit to be tolerated; and, I conceive, that the best remedy of this disorder and confusion would be, to reduce them all to the Episcopal Government, for I hold it impossible that the Church of England should ever be quiet or flourish otherwise. The Convocation comes in a very fit time for this purpose; and I question not but that Assembly will take order about it, which will be a great satisfaction to me; for otherwise you will be continually in trouble, and the Adversaries will take advantage thereby either to blemish and slander our Religion, or to contrive and foment Plots against the State. I beseech the Lord that he would be pleased to rule and govern that Holy Assembly, and pour his Blessings upon their Determinations for the Advancement of his Kingdom.  E. D. 
Though this Man saith too much, yet he saith nothing in particular to the point of our refusing to read the Common-prayer in our Assemblies, and to frequent the Churches where it is read.  F. P. 
If you think that Monsieur Goyon doth not speak home enough to the matter in question, be pleased to read what Ludovicus Capellus, Divinity-Professor at Saumur, saith to it, in the Body of Divinity published by him and his two Colleagues, Moses Amyraldus and Joshua Placaeus; in which Book this Learned Man, having at large proved the Lawfulness, Use and Necessity of a set Form of Liturgy, in opposition to the then newly started Directory, which the Presbyterians endeavoured to establish instead of the Common-prayer. It is also worthy our noting, that he maintained a public Dispute on this Subject in the Divinity-School, wherein he defended the Common-prayer of the Church of England, as good, sound and expedient, against the Cavils and Objections of the Presbyterians, even at that very time when the Opposers of set Forms were in the greatest power in this Kingdom, and that it was generally believed the Liturgy of the Church of England would never have been restored.  E. D. 
But what saith he in particular of us, for if you don't tell me, I shall scarce take the pains of reading over his Book to inform myself?  F. P. 
I am unwilling to give you his words, because I fear you'll find some of his Expressions too sharp and cutting.  E. D. 
As long as I suppose he was no English Tory, I shall take all he saith of us in good part.  F. P. 
Towards the end of his first Thesis, he saith, Vnum superest examinandum, etc. which in English speaks thus: There remains yet one thing to be enquired into, viz. Whether there ought to be a certain set Form of Liturgy, consisting of express words; or, Whether it ought rather to be left to the will of the Pastor, to use what words or form he pleaseth; and this because of a new Generation of late Upstarts, which will admit of no certain and prescribed Form of Liturgy, neither in the public Assemblies of the Church, nor in private Devotions; but maintain that all aught to be left to the pleasure of Ministers and the Heads of Families. And in his sixth Thesis he declares, That the several Authors of the Reformation had every where composed and prescribed several set Forms of Liturgy, and that the same were still made use of by the Reformed Churches in their several Nations and Districts with happy success and edification; till of late there arose in England a froward, scrupulous and over nice (not to say superstitious) Generation of men, who thought good not only to blame and find fault with, but wholly to abrogate and cast off the Liturgy hitherto used in their Church, instead whereof they have introduced their Directory as they call it. He adds further, That the Reasons and Causes you pretend to have for abolishing the Common-prayer were levissimae, nulliusque pene momenti, very slight, and scarce of any moment at all. And in Thesis' 28. he saith, Certainly nothing else has stirred up these men so eagerly to reject all manner of set Forms of Prayer, but partly the desire of innovating and corrupting, to the end that, under the specious pretext of Liberty to pray and prophesy, they might introduce all manner of Sects and Errors into the Church; and partly their false and prejudicated opinion, persuading themselves that we are now arrived at that time, wherein, as in the days of the Apostles, the Spirit of Prophecy, of prayer and Supplications, is to be poured forth upon the present Church, according to that of Joel 2.28. and Zach. 12. v. 10. which is the common and most pestilent Error of all the fanatics, concerning the sending of the H. Ghost by Christ, etc. And drawing up his whole Dissertation into certain Conclusions, he saith, Thesis' 49. The use of these set Forms of Prayer cannot justly be condemned, forasmuch as the same may be always and every where profitable and convenient; and because they have been received by the universal Christian Church for these 1300 years all the World over, except only among these new-fangled Independents, so he calls all those who reject the use of set Forms. And Thesis' 50. he adds further; So that the perverseness, peevishness and superstition, or rather the malapert and obstinate wilfulness of these men is both prodigious and senseless, who, out of a mere humour or desire of lawless licentiousness, or out of design to introduce confusion into the Church, do superstitiously condemn and compare to an Idol, forbidden by the fourth Commandment, a thing which in itself is most innocent, the use of it edifying, and the practice of it most convenient, which has long obtained in the Universal Church, was never yet condemned by any Church, and which all the Churches of God make use of with the greatest benefit that may be, which yet these men, most foolishly, would have all to forbear and abhor. And lastly, in 51 Thesis, he saith, And amongst the rest, those are most to be detested, who either will not allow the Lord's Prayer to be said at all, or will have it said alone, and not in conjunction with any other Prayer whether public or private, and who think it a great sin for any godly man to be present either in the Church at Common-prayer, or in any Family at private Devotions, where any set Form is used; and hold this for a just cause of Separation from the Church, lest they should be Partakers of the Sins of those who use set Forms, and thereby become defiled, being not unlike to those of whom the Prophet Isaiah speaks, chap. 6. v. 5. which say, Stand by thyself; come not near me; for I am holier than thou; these are a smoke in my nostrils, saith the Lord: that is, they kindle my wrath against them The Lord grant they may return to a better mind. Amen.  
And so say I too. Amen, Amen.  
And thus I take my leave of you in the words of this Learned and most Renowned Divine.  E. D. 
But pray why in such haste? We have not yet made an end of our dispute; for when I told you I had done, I meant with your Liturgy: Wherefore now it remains that we discourse concerning the Ceremonies of your Church, which I intended for a Second Part of this our Conference.  F. P. 
If I be not mistaken, we have discoursed long enough for once; besides, I must give you time to consider what hath been said; and if you chance to approve it, and desire further to discourse me about the Ceremonies of the Church; I now assure you, that I shall at any time be ready to serve you to the utmost of my power.  
The End of the First Part.