THE VISITATION: OR, Long looked-for comes at last: IN THE SUBMISSION OF Mr. BAXTER, Mr. JENKINS, and others, to the several parts of the Act of Uniformity. RABBI BUSY. Pigg may be eaten,— exceedingly well eaten.— B. John: LONDON Printed in— AUGUST, If one WON'T, another MUST. 1662. TO THE READER. READER, WHen Laws cannot prevail, Authority cannot awe, favours cannot oblige, reasons cannot convince some persons otherwise minded: It's our Last refuge to press upon them their own words, that if they will not hear us, they may hear themselves, hoping that they will be unwilling to be of their number who (as the Apostle saith) Condemn themselves: If our hearts condemn us not God is greater than our hearts, and knoweth all things. This little Book hath cleared this great Truth for the use of the present age, and posterity, viz. That there is nothing imposed by the Act of Uniformity, but what hath been owned by Mr. Perkins, Mr. Dod, Mr. Ball, Mr. Baxter, Mr. Vines, Mr. Jeakins, etc. and other Non-Conformists that writ since the Troubles at Frankford, as appears by their own words, faithfully recited from their several Books and Pages to the impartial; to whose reading the following quoted places in the Authors are Commended, By your Old Friend, R. L. THE VISITATION, OR, Long looked for comes at last. Bishop, Mr. Baxter. Bishop. MR. Baxter, I pray tell me seriously, Whether you think in your Conscience that Ministers ought not to submit to an Act of Uniformity? Mr. Baxter. 1. We must obey both Magistrates and Pastors in those things that belong to their Office. D●sp. Ch. Government, p. 44●. 2. It belongs to their Office to command the Modes and Circumstances of Worship, for guiding them therein God hath given them general Rules. 3. We must not take the lawful Commands of our Superior to be unlawful. 4. If we do through weakness or pervesnesse take lawful things to be unlawful, that will not excuse us in our disobedience. Bishop. What do you think concerning a Liturgy? Mr. Baxter. My Lord, I have proved by seven or eight undeniable Arguments, 1. a Ibid. p. 359. That a stinted Liturgy is lawful. 2. b P. 380. That it is lawful to use a Liturgy that is not taken out of the Scripture, as to the words, 3. Christ hath not commanded in what words I shall pray, whether imposed by others or not; whether with a Book, or a preconceived form or not: yet I am sure he hath commanded obedience and peace. 4. c P. 365. I think that a stinted Liturgy in some parts of holy public Service, is ordinarily necessary, 1. In reading the Word; 2. In singing Psalms; 3. In Baptism; 4. In administering the Lords Supper; 5. In blessing people in the name of the Lord; 6. In confessing our saith and sins in Marriage, Confirmation, Absolution, Excommunication; 7. In Prayer. 5. d P. 367. I have declared that a form of Prayer at some times may not only be submitted to, but be desired, when the peace of the Church doth accidentally require it; and that he is far from the temper of a Christian, that sets so light by the peace of the Church, that he would not use a lawful means for the procuring of it, when Paul would become all things to all men to save some. Bishop. What do you think (I pray) of our Liturgy? Mr. Baxter. For the Book of the Common-Prayer, Disput. Ibid. though I have read exceptions against divers passages, I remembered not any thing that might not receive a good Construction if it were read with the same candour and allowance we read the writings of other men, against which I hate to be peevishly quarrelsome; when God hath blessed this Church so wonderfully with a cautelous and a moderate Reformation, yet effectual, the more pity it is that the very Modes of Worship and Discipline should be the matter of such sharp and uncharitable discords, which must one day prove the grief of those that are found to be the causers of it, and of the sufferings of the Church upon that occasion. Bishop. I pray what do you think of the Ceremonies of our Church? Mr. Baxter. To deal plainly with you my Lord, e P. 359. I think significant Ceremonies are lawful, as the Surplice, and sign of the Cross, as a professing signal action, P. 405. standing at the Creed, and adoring with their faces towards the East, which were used by the Primitive Christians as significations of their minds, instead of words; in all which cases its no Usurpation or Diminution to the word, or Institution of man, thus to determine: It is but an obeying of God's commands, for my part I did obey the imposers of such Ceremonies, and would do it if it were to do again, ☞ rather than disturb the peace of the Church, and be deprived of its Communion. Bishop. Do you think really between God and your own Conscience, that the Scripture hath provided so exactly for all circumstances in Worship, that there is nothing left for Superiors to impose? Mr. Baxter. No, Because Christ's Law is an Universal Law for all Ages and Countries, but these circumstances cannot be of an Universal determination: For example; God hath commanded us to read the word, etc. which must necessarily be done in some time and place, gesture and number of words, but he hath nor commanded what day, what hour, what Chapter, P. 8. Disput. etc.— These things belonging to Superiors to prescribe, for common union and concord amongst men. Bishop. I pray what think you will be the issue of men's disobedience to such lawful things imposed? Mr. Baxter. Hereby the Members of the Church will be involved in Contentions, Disp. Ibid. and so engaged in bitter uncharitableness and censures, with Persecutions and Reproaches one of another; which scandalous courses will nourish Vice, dishonour God, rejoice the Enemies, grieve the Godly that are peaceable and judicious, and wound the Consciences of the Contenders: We see the beginnings of such fires are small, but whither they will tend, and what will be the issue of them, I know not. Bishop. Whom do I see behind you Mr. Baxter? Mr. Baxter. Mr. Jeanes. Bishop. Mr. Jeanes. you are a person I know not whether more eminent for your parts, or your opposition to the Church: What are your thoughts of the things now in controversy? Mr. Jeanes. I have expressed myself, f Appear. Evil, p. 3. That the Church may be secure and regardless of any Calumnies, and groundless Exceptions against it; for there hath been so much spoken and ☞ written concerning this subject, as that the pretence of weakness is quite taken away from those that are capable of information. Bishop. I must confess I have always thought, that if the Ancient Martyrs and Confessors were raised from their graves, they would all submit to an act of Uniformity: I pray here what they say. 1. Peter M. If we hold on in dissuading from these indifferent things, we condemn withal very many Churches, which have received the Gospel, and blame bitterly innumerable, who were formerly counted worthy of all praise. 2. Beza. Exhorteth the Non Conformists in Queen Elizabeth's time, that laying aside all bitterness of Spirit, as long as the truth of Doctrine, and purity of Conscience was safe, they would bear one another with patience, and obey the Queens most Gracious Majesty and all her Prelates hearty; The things you contend for are not of so great moment. 3. Zanchy. I speak my Conscience saith he before God, that I can take them for no other than Schismatics, that will not submit to an Hierarchy, as it is established in England. 4. M. Bucer. Therefore saith he, I desire and beseech you by the Cross of the Son of God, by the Salvation of the Churches, which are all this day overwhelmed with Calamities, by the desired content that we should desire to reign in all Churches, by the peace that is in Christ Jesus: Again, I desire and beseech you, that you do nothing rashly in the business of Ceremonies: 5. Peter M. If he were alive, he would advise you to take heed, lest those things of less importance by our strife, may be the means that those things which should be esteemed of greater force and value, either cannot at all be brought into the Church, either if they be once brought in, cannot be established with continuance. 6. M. Hilders. If M. Hildersham lived, how powerfully would he persuade men, as he doth on 51, Ps. lect. 35. to satisfy weak Christians about the Surpliss and Cross, and to keep them from leaving the assemblies therefore. 7. M. Baines. How earnestly would holy M. Baines advise, that whosoever lieth not in our power to reform, it shall be our zeal and piety to tolerate and patiently bear. Bishop. M. Baxter. How much private advantage would you part with for public good? Baxter. Truly the commands of the Magistrate, the Unity of the Church, and the avoiding of contentions and offences and other evils, are a sufficient warrant to me to obey in inconvenient Circumstantials of God's worship, P. 487. that otherwise could not be justified. Bishop. So the Martyr g Fox p. 1367. Hooper, who stumbled at some Ceremonies, in respect of the public profit of the Church submitted to them. Bishop. M. Brinsley. You are welcome, I pray what think you of the Controversies that vex our Church? Brinsley. Some are so wedded to their own wills, Discourse against Schism, p. 17. as to take up resolutions before hand, in case their opinions be meddled with, or their ways be touched upon though never so tenderly; Yet they will come no more at the public Ordinance, at least to hear such a Minister; This is but too clear an evidence that they are but too willing to be deceived. My Lord, men should take heed how they before hand take up resolutions, whether of opposing or not obeying; Take we heed then how we entertain any thoughts that way, Schism. p. 19 but rather prepare our Ears and Hearts to hear what the Lord will say to us by Superiors ordained over us by him. Now I would praise all my Brethren, if they would remember to keep the Ordinances delivered unto them. Bishop. Would you own our Uniformity, Mr. Bond? Bond. Yes, for I observe how Christ submitted to the Uniformity of worship established among the Jews; Sermon at Savoy, 55 Therefore I may very well submit to an Uniformity established among Christians. Bishop. I pray Mr. Ball, what say you to the differences now on foot? ●all. It's true, it's said to the desparagement of the Liturgy that it is taken out of the Masse-book: Against Con. p. 8. but alas! many precious truths may be taken out thence as pearls may be taken out of a dunghill, P. 9 really there are such things in the Common-prayer, such doctrines there taught, and such practices there enjoined that are so directly contrary to the Masse-book, that both cannot stand together: Most things in the Liturgy of our Church, were in the ancient Liturgyes before the Mass was heard of; I think we can prove the Religion and Worship of the Church of England, with such undeniable arguments, as the gates of Hell shall not be able to prevail against. Bishop. What say you M. Josiah Nichols, will you now subscribe to that which you refused in the University? Nichols. 1. I willingly use the Book of Common-prayer and no other form, Plea p. 10 unless sometimes upon extraordinary occasion by public Authority, some other Prayer be assigned. 2. I subscribe willingly to the Book of Articles, P. 3. according to the Statute. Bishop. Do you Mr. Randall own any Church power, for imposing Ceremonies? Randall. I have in the 131. p. of my Church, proved by Scripture and undeniable Arguments, that every particular visible Church hath power from God, to ordain some outward Rites and Ceremonies, for the outward carriage of God's worship. 2. If we live in a Church where such things are ordained, which are simply unlawful: Randall Church, p. 148. we must take heed that we resist not this Power, or the things thereby ordained; We ought to bridle that dislike and refusal of things imposed, which we are by Nature too much inclined unto. 3. Ibid. That which must over rule the Conscience in the substance of worship is the Law of God; That which must overrule it in Circumstances of worship is the Law of Superiors. 4. Ibid. Take we such a course, whereby we may obey the Magistrate and the Church, and yet not offend the weak; This is Wisdom, yet rather obey the Magistrate, though with offence; For here disobedience is the greater sin, and so takes away the sin of offending the weak; and indeed in this case I do no offence, because my hands are bound, and I have no liberty to do otherwise. Bishop. Truly Mr. Randall I am glad to hear thus much from you, being informed that you disliked our Ceremonies and Impositions, and that you were ready to departed from our Church upon that account. Randal. Really my own opinion, and my advice to others hath been this, 1. That we must resolve to bear with a great deal, rather than make a rent: for Schism is a great sin. 2. That we should suffer ourselves to be overborn in things indifferent, by the Authority of the Church, till we are able to prove them simply unlawful, or to prove that there is a greater scandal in the use of them, than in disobeying the Voice of the Church, or of the Christian Magistrate: For I know that it is a sin to disobey the Christian Magistrate, except that I know that God commands the contrary. In things indifferent I do but fea●●; and shall I run into a known sin, because that I would avoid a sin only feared? Bishop. Good Dr. I am glad to see you; I hope you will not stand out against lawful Authority. Dr. Gouge. 1. Serm. visit. p. 63. We are to allow the Magistrate power to govern the Church according to his own Conscience, and to obey him in things not forbidden, for Conscience sake. Ibid. 2. As for Conformity: If the spirit of the Ruler by Laws be stirred up against us, or our opinions, We ought not to leave our places. Eccl. 10.4. Let us lay aside our opinions, Ibid. and patiently bear the private disgrace of Conformity from some censorious ones, rather than suffer ourselves to be laid aside from the work of the Ministry, and thereby hinder the public profit, and benefit, which the Church of God might receive by us. Bishop. Whom do I see behind you? methinks it is Dr. Preston. Gouge. It is he my Lord. Bishop. Dr. Preston, Your judgement is deservedly valued, and practice exactly observed: I pray what do you intent in reference to the Uniformity imposed in matter of Worship? Preston. A set Form may be used: Abridgem. p. 437 Christ prescribed a Form; certain Psalms are Prayers; and all along in the Churches there have been set Forms used. I have submitted and will submit. Bishop. Be there any more at Door? Messenger. Here is Mr. Dod, Mr. Cleaver, Harris, and Mr. Wheatley. Bishop. Mr. Dod, will you subscribe? Dod. I have for Peace, Order, and Conscience sake, His Life, always submitted my own private judgement to the public determination of Authority, in things indifferent. Dr. Harris, What say you? Harris. 1. These things need not be imposed; Life! but when they are imposed, they must needs be entertained. 2. Life and Sermon. p. 17. I have always thought that a peaceable Christian might comply with any Government and Order offered since the Reformation. Bishop. What say you good Mr. Wheatley? Wheatley. The Authority ordained over men of God, may put my body in what Posture and they please: Bride-Cloath, It shall be my care to frame my soul, and that. Messenger. Mr. Vines is come. Bishop. Mr. Vines, I hope we shall not lose you, and your party: what say you? Sacrament 45. p. 1. Vines. Most of the Ceremonies of our Church are ancient and innocent; the Government of it primitive. 2. I remember we are in faece Romuli, and when we cannot have what we will, we must deny ourselves so far, as to will what we have; This is not a state of perfection. But I gave satisfaction in this point to His late Majesty at the Isle of Wight. The London Ministers attend. Devin. Bishop. Let them come in— Mr. Caryl, What do you intent to do? Caryl. Thus saith the Lord; Stand in the ways, ask for the old way, which is the good way, and you shall find rest to your sous. The ancient Customs of the Church, not contrary to the Scripture, may be allowed of; In Job 33. the ancient Rule of the Scripture must. Bishop. Mr. Venning, How is it that you gave over doing good in the Church? Milk, Honey, 145. Venning. A man should not omit to do good when he hath, nor commit evil though he have an opportunity to do it. 2. Most men have a good opinion of their own opinion, though their opinion be not good. 3. A Christian needs walk circumspectly, lest he give them that are without an occasion to offend, or to them that are within an occasion of offence. 4. It is to be feared, Milk Hony, 147. that they who turn their backs upon the Ordinances of God, will at last turn their backs upon the God of Ordinances. Bishop. Mr. Brooks, Will you leave the Ministry? Brooks. The love of Christ and of Souls doth constrain me: Brooks Preface, Apples Gold. as there is an attractive, so there is a compulsive virtue in divine love, love to Christ and Souls will make a man willing to spend and be spent; Solus amor nescit difficultates; He that prays himself to death; he that preacheth himself to death; he that studieth himself to death for the good of Souls, shall be no loser in the latter end. Bishop. I hope he that can preach himself to death for poor Souls sake, may preach himself to order, peace, and obedience, for their sakes too. Bishop. Mr. Burroughs, You are a Peacemaker, what are your thoughts of these affairs. Burroughs. 1. Much may be allowed to the supreme Authority, Iren. p. 52.73.45. for Peace and Orders sake. 2. Much may be allowed to one another, for unanimity and agreement. SECT. II. Concerning the Covenant. Bishop. Call Nie in:— Nie, What think you of the Covenant? Nie. It is such an Oath as for matter, Coven. with Narrat. p. 10. persons, and other circumstances, the like hath not been in any age we read of, in any sacred or humane stories. Bishop. Do you think that the Covenant was lawfully imposed? Nie. I pray my Lord hear the Parliament. Pet right Car. 3. Long Parliament. Whereas many of the people of this Realm have had an Oath imposed upon them, not warrantable by the Laws and Statutes of this Realm; We humbly pray, That no man may hereafter be compelled to take such an Oath, as our right and liberty, according to the Statutes of this Realm. Bishop. Is any man obliged by this Covenant to alter the constitution of the Government? Mr. Pym. As it is a crime odious in the nature of it, Speech against E. Stra●●. to endeavour the alteration of the Government of the State; so it is odious in the judgement and estimation of the Law: St. John's argumen. Ibid. to alter the settled frame and constitution of the Government is treason in any State. Long Parliament. It is malignancy to infuse into the people, that we mean to abolish Church-Government. Rem. Dec▪ 1641. Bishop. Do you think Mr. Perkins, that godly and reverend man, and great Casuist, would renounce the Covenant? Let us bear him. Perkins. I would renounce any Oath that contradicts the Law of the Land, Cases Conse. p. 107. usurps the Magistrate's power, takes away the Liberty of the Subject, and so is contrary to the word of God. Ibid. 2. I would renounce any Oath which is made against the wholesome Laws of Government: because every soul ought to be subject to the higher powers, Rom. 13. 3. An Oath made by persons under tuition, Ibid. who have not power to bind themselves, obligeth not; and we are not our own, Numb. 30.3. 4. I'll renounce an Oath that bindeth me to that which is not in my power; Ibid. yea if at first it were lawful, and after by some means becomes either impossible, or unlawful, when it becometh impossible, than we may think that God himself hath from Heaven freed us form that Oath. SECT. III. Concerning Resisting the King. Bishop. Gentlemen, Are you willing to declare it unlawful to raise Arms against the King upon any pretence? Ministers of London. We are resolved, either cheerfully to obey, or patiently to submit. Bishop. What say you Mr Bates? Sermon St. Dunst. Jan. 30.60. Feb. 17. Bates. A Patience and Meekness is the Crown of our Religion. Bishop. What say you Mr. Jacomb? Jacomb. Nobis obsequii gloria relicta est; Our glory is to obey. Sermon May 29. Religion was planted by obedience, by that it is continued. Bishop. What say you Mr. Meriton? Sermon Jan. 30. Meriton. Curse not the King in thy heart, for a Bird of the Air will tell the matter. Bishop. What say you Mr. Ley? Ley. It is a common scandal raised upon our profession, as if it were inconsistent with Government, Sermon taken March 9.60. as one pretends, whereas none can have a more real allegiance, and sincere obedience than good Christians. Bishop. Mr. Jenkins, There are strange things reported concerning your Principles, in reference to the present Government. Jenkins. It's true my Lord, I teach a liberty, but not such as may be an occasion of the flesh, or a cloak of maliciousness: Judas v. 8. v. 11. etc. nor indeed, is any thing further from truth, than that because of Christian liberty, men should not be subject to the Civil power. Bishop. Do you think a man may under any pretence resist the lawful power? Jenkins. No: for 1. It is a sin against God's Ordinance, Judas v. 8. Prov. 8.15.2. It's against the public welfare. p. 278. They that are weary of Magistrates are weary of all the comforts and blessings of peace. 3. It's against our own happiness. An evil man seeketh only rebellion, therefore an evil messenger shall be sent against him, Eccl. 10.8. I do not remember that God suffered any godly man to put another out of Government, or to put himself in. p. 300. Good men will not be bad Subjects, neither can evil men be good Subjects. v. 12. Fear thou God and the King, p. 108. and meddle not with them that are given to change, their calamity shall come suddenly, and who knoweth the ruin of them both? Mr. Manton. Bishop. Mr. Manton, will not you subscribe, that it is unlawful to resist Authority under any pretence? Manton. By all means, Judas 81 p. 355. let us obey every Ordinance of man for the Lords sake. The public welfare is concerned in our Obedience & Religion too, both which should be very dear to those that fear God. Better bear any Inconvenience than bath the Country in war and blood. Bishop. Whence comes it that men resist the Magistrate? Manton. Vain man would be free and yoakless, p. 347. neither would he have his heart subject to God, nor his actions to man's censure. Some men will not have their Consciences stand in the way of their lust, nor the Magistrate in the way of their sin, but every Christian desires to live under the Magistrate peaceable and quiet lives, p. 348. in all godliness and honesty. SECT. iv Concerning Subscription to the Book of Ordaining Priests and Deacons. Bishop. What think you Gentlemen of subscribing to that Book of Ordination? Mr. Ball. We may subscribe to the Ordaining of Ministers, Mr. Ball against Can ●. 89.90. which are essential allowed by God's word, though as to some circumstantial order, whereby in this, or that society, the Minister is to execute that function he hath received from God; he is not expressly allowed of in the word of God. 2. If they be not lawful Ministers who receive their Ordination from Bishops, Mr. Ball part 1. p. 25. the Church throughout the world hath been destitute of a lawful Minister this 1500. or 1600. years. Bishop. What say you Mr. Baxter to this? Baxter. So eminent in God's graces and gifrs were the Bishops, that their names will be precious whilst Christ hath in England a Reformed Church. 2. Our Jewel, our Usher, our Davenant hath done so much against the Roman Usurpers, Baxter Disp. Church Government. p. 4. that they will not be able to claw it off them to the last. Moreover, who knoweth not? that most of the godly able Ministers of England, since the Reformation, did judge Episcopacy, some of them lawful, and some of them most sit (for the Non-conformists were but few) and that before these late troubles and wars, etc. the most through the Land did subscribe and conform to Episcopal Government, as a thing not contrary to the word of God; so that it is very evident, Baxter Disp. ibis' that it is very consistent with a godly life, to judge Episcopacy lawful and just, or else we should not have had so many learned and godly men of that mind. Bishop. Gentlemen, I am very glad to see and hear so unanimous a consent to the several parts of the Act of Uniformity, I am told Mr. Calvin himself would conform. Calvin. I pray let there be one Form of Prayer, Ep. ad Protect. Selden Not, in Eutycho and of Ecclesiastical Rites, from which it may not be lawful for the Pastors in their function to departed. That 1. thereby provision might be made for the simplicity of some. 2. That the consent the Churches have amongst themselves may more evidently appear. 3. That the extravagant Levity of some that affect novelties may be prevented. Bishop. Notwithstanding all this, there be some tender Consciences that cannot submit to Authority, what shall we do with these? Mr. Edward's. Of Tolerat. l. 1. It's against the Conscience of the Magistrate to tolerate the erroneous Conscience of the Subject. Mr. Case. Sermon before Parliament. A toleration is the abomination that makes desolate. Mr. Nalton. Sermon at Paul's 1659. on Judas. p. 403, 404. Toleration is intolerable. Mr. Manton. Believe not Seducers, when they come in sheep's clothing, it is but that they may get the power to play the Wolves the better; And when Libertines increase, let the Magistrates look about them. There are clouds gathering together towards a dismal storm, and though they seem to be meek, and full of love, while their party is contemptible, yet when they grow considerable, Mr. Manton on Judas 403. they appear in their colours. Many fear a second deluge of Anti-Christianism, but that is not so probable as the seditious Insurrection of Sectaries. The perilous times, Mr. Manton ibid. 2 Tim. 3. are not from the Antichristian, or Popish party, so much as from the Libertines, who are heady, highminded, traitorous, etc. Our danger is not from a Popish party, that carrieth things on by power and greatness, so much as from a party that creeps into houses, and leads captive silly women, having a form of godliness, and denying the power thereof. Bishop. Beloved, If there be any consolation in Christ, if there be any comfort of love, if any fellowship of the Spirit, if any bowels and mercy, fulfil ye my joy, that ye be like minded, having the same l●v●, being of one accord, Phil. 2. 1, 2, 3. of one mind. Let nothing be done through strife and vainglory, Amen. FINIS. ADVERTISEMENT. ☞ Lately Published, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, Or, CONSIDERATIONS on the ACT of UNIFORMITY, For the SATISFACTION of the CLERGY, within the Province of CANTERBURY. Sold by H. MARSH.