Imprimatur,  
GVIL. JANE. Jan. 9 77.   

A Conference Betwixt a PAPIST AND A JEW: OR, A LETTER FROM A Merchant in LONDON, to His Correspondent in AMSTERDAM.  
LONDON: Printed by A. M. and R. R. for Tho. Parkhurst, at the Bible and Three Crowns in Cheapside near Mercers-Chappel, 1678.   

A Conference betwixt a PAPIST and a JEW: etc.  
Kind Sir,  
YOurs of the 22d of this instant December I received, I give you my hearty thanks for the Contents. It may serve in part for a requital, to remit you an account of a late Conference betwixt a Papist and a Jew at my House. The occasion was this: On the 14th instant, being Friday, a Jesuit (one Father S.) whom I have always found most friendly and ingenuous, came to my house about Noon to get a return for 200 l. in Paris. I readily complied with his request, and desired him withal, to stay and take a short Dinner with me. Without much importunity he was persuaded: My Dinner was only a Dish of Saltfish, and a joint of Pork roasted; and though we had but ordinary cheer, yet down we sat, and were very cheerful. Before we had fully Dined in came L. the Jew, to discourse me about a Commodity that I had inquired after; I desired him also to sit down and bear us company. My Wife knowing the Man, and his manner, said to him, Mr. L. I am sorry that we have nothing here that you can eat. I am sure said she (pointing to the Pork, the only Dish remaining now upon the Table) you are for none of this. Father S. (observing what she said, and supposing L. to be a Roman-Catholick, and that his Abstinence did arise from the same scrupulosity with those of that persuasion) began to scrape acquaintance with him, and asked him what Countryman he was, and how long he had lived in this City? I prevented the reply of L. and told Father S. that I judged he was mistaken in my friend, that he was no Roman-Catholick, but a Jew; and refrained Pork not because it was Friday, and so forbidden by the Church of Rome, but because it was Swine's flesh, and so he apprehended it to forbidden of God. And here it would have made you smile if you had stood by, and heard what a Paroxysm or sharp debate there arose betwixt Father S. and my Wife about this question, Whether he or the Jew had the greatest ground for such Abstinence; and to speak without partiality she put him hard to it. After the Table was cleared, Father S. desired to have some more serious Discourse with L. and told him, that he wondered how any man in his right senses could persist in Jewish Infidelity; adding withal, that he would undertake in an hours time to convince him, that the promised Messiah was come, and that Jesus of Nazareth was he. L. answered that he was a Trader, and altogether unfit to manage a Controversy of that moment, and therefore desired to be excused from meddling with it. Father S. replied, that it was more than probable there were some of their Priests or Rabbis in this City, and that if he pleased, he would meet the ablest of them, and argue this point in his hearing, and he hoped to his conviction and satisfaction. L. consented, and promised, if a convenient time and place were appointed, to bring a friend with him for this purpose. I interposed, and offered my House for the place of their meeting, which they well approved of, and appointed that day Sevenday at three of the Clock in the Afternoon for the time. L. desired that there might be no noise or notice given of this their intention, alleging that it might be of ill and dangerous consequence to those of their Religion, if it should come to the ear of the Magistrate. Hereupon they agreed that there should be no words of it, and that no persons besides, my Wife and I should be present, but themselves and L's friend. Upon this they parted, and all three came punctually at the time appointed. I carried them up into a Chamber which had a Closet in it, where I had placed one that was dextrous in Stenography, and drew the Table pretty near the Closet-door, that he might hear and write all that past. When they were sat, I made it my request, that an intimate friend of mine who was in the House might be permitted to come up and be an auditor. This was Mr. B. whom I had habited like a Gentleman. They said if he were a friend of mine, and did desire it, they had nothing against it. Whereupon I brought him in, and set him a Chair at a little distance from the Table. After a short silence, Father S. began and said to L. I suppose this is your friend you spoke of at our last meeting in this House, and promised to bring with you this day. L. answered, yes, it was; upon which they gave each other a friendly bow or salute. Then they first considered what should be the main Question or Subject-matter of their Conference, and anon it was resolved into this, Whether Jesus of Nazareth was the Messiah? The next thing they considered, was, Whether this Question should be argued Syllogistically, the one taking the part of an Opponent, the other of a Respondent; or Whether they should alternately deliver their conceptions in a continued Discourse without interrupting one another? L's friend desired the latter way, because he was not acquainted, as he said, with our way of arguing in the Schools. A Third thing they resolved upon, was this, that the Conference should not last above Two hours, and that neither of them should speak above half an hour at once. Having agreed those three Preliminaries, Father S. began, and after he had a little stated the Question, showing whom he meant by Jesus of Nazareth, and whom he meant by the Messiah, he proceeded thus. Though I might urge many arguments to prove what I affirm, That Jesus of Nazareth is the Messiah foretold by the Prophets; yet I shall insist only upon one. And that is, the many Miracles that were wrought by himself, and by his followers in his Name, which were sufficient to convince the World that he came from God, and that he was that Prophet whom our Fathers expected, and that God had promised. I fearing that my Scribe in the Closet could not well hear Father S. he spoke so low, (and indeed afterwards I understood I was not deceived) made bold to desire him a little to lift up his voice, which he readily did, and withal followed his argument so closely, and pressed it so nervously, that I confess I was greatly confirmed thereby, and concluded L. and his friend would become his Converts, and wondered with myself what rejoinder could possibly be meditated by either of them.  
His Argument he thus formed: He that testified of himself that he was the Messiah, and confirmed his Testimony by many infallible Miracles, which were wrought by himself and by his followers in his name, he must needs be the Messiah: But Jesus of Nazareth testified thus of himself, and confirmed his Testimony by many infallible Miracles, which were wrought by himself and by his followers in his name; Therefore Jesus of Nazareth must needs be the Messiah. The Proposition, says he, I suppose no rational man will deny, whatever his persuasion be in matters of Religion; especially if he understand by Miracles, as I do, such wonderful Works as are contrary to the course of Nature, and above and beyond the reach of any mere Creature, and as are the product of an Almighty Power. It can't be imagined that God, who is the faithful and merciful Governor of the Universe, would alter the course of Nature, and set the seal of his Omnipotency to a lie, and suffer the greatest inducement of belief to be made use of to draw the world into error and perdition. Two things I take for granted, nor can they be rationally gainsaid. First, That none but God, and such as are assisted by him, can work real Miracles. Satan and such as are acted and aided by him may work Wonders, such as may breed admiration in the beholders; but to work Miracles properly and strictly so called, is above the power of Satan, or any created Being. This is the prerogative of him alone, whose Power is infinite and unlimited. Secondly, That God never did, nor never will communicate this Power to any of working Miracles to confirm a falsehood. To believe or affirm any such thing concerning God, doth border at least upon blasphemy. 'Tis as if God should lend the Devil his seal to sign his Delusions, and suffer it too to be done in his Name, how then should he govern the world in righteousness? and how deplorable and remediless were the condition of poor mortals, seeing they have no way left them to undeceive themselves, but must run into irrecoverable ruin, and entitle God to their seduction and perdition?  
That Testimony then which hath the attestation of Miracles, is undoubtedly Divine. Hereby Moses did prove his Mission from God. Pharaoh and the Egyptians did not except against the argument, only they thought, at least for a season, his Works and Wonders were not supernatural, and that their Sorcerers could vie with him in works of Wonder, which we read in Exodus; they attempted by Enchantments and Diabolical assistance, till at length they acknowledged a Divine and supernatural Power to work with Moses, and ingenuously confessed that it was the finger of God. And had Moses affirmed himself to be the Messiah, and continued to work such Miracles to confirm it, the Israelites and others had been obliged to believe it. They must have concluded, that no man could do the Miracles that he did, except God were with him, and wrought in and by him; and that God would never work with a Deluder, and lend him his seal (as I said before) to sign his Delusions, and deceive the world in his Name. Moses therefore never had that pretext, but told the people plainly of a Messiah to come, of a Prophet that God would raise up to them of their brethren that should be like unto him, that should come with Signs and Miracles as he had done, whom they should hearken to and obey.  
Accordingly when Jesus our Saviour was made of a woman, and manifested in the flesh, the fullness of time being come, the main argument he used to bring the world to believe in him was this of Signs and Miracles. Hence 'twas that he told his followers, That the Works he wrought did bear witness of him: and when the Jews that were round about him asked him how long he made them to doubt, and desired him to tell them plainly if he were the Christ: he answered, That he had already told them, that the Works which he did in his Father's Name, did testify of him. Yea, said he, if I do not the works of my Father, believe me not: but if I do, although you believe not me, yet believe the Works. And again he says, Believe that I am in the Father, and the Father in me, or else believe me for the very Works sake. He tells them further, That if he had not done the Works amongst them that none other man did, or could do, they had not sinned in not believing in him. This also we find to be the great argument upon which so many believed; when they saw the Miracles that he he did, they said, This is of a truth that Prophet that should come into the world. They had been in doubt for a while whether John the Baptist was not the Christ; but anon they considered that John wrought no Miracle, but all things that John spoke of Jesus were true; and besides he had done many Miracles, and therefore many believed in him. Thus much for the demonstration of the Major Proposition.  
Now I come to the Assumption or Minor Proposition, which is, That Jesus of Nazareth testified of himself that he was the Messiah, and confirmed his Testimony by many infallible Miracles which were wrought by himself and by his followers in his name. That he testified thus of himself is not denied. He told the Jews, Unless you believe that I am he you shall die in your sins. This was the main part of that good Confession which he witnessed before Pontius Pilate the Roman Governor, and it was the main quarrel your Ancestors had against him; for though they expected about this time the coming of the Messiah, and that for good reasons, because Daniel's seventy weeks were run out, and the Sceptre was departed from Judah, and a Lawgiver from between his feet, and the like yet they would not hear that Jesus of Nazareth should be the person. Alas! he had not the port and presence of a worldly Potentate, such as they dreamt of: When they saw him, there was no form or comeliness for which they should desire him. They hide their faces from him, and esteemed him not, as was foretold by Isaiah the Prophet.  
That therefore which remains to be proved, is, that he confirmed this his Testimony by many infallible Miracles, which were wrought by himself and by his followers in his name. Let me begin with the Miracles which he wrought himself, of which there was a very great number, and that of divers kinds; and these were not done in a corner, but in the face of the world, before multitudes, and that in the presence of, if not upon the persons of some of his greatest enemies. His first Miracle after his showing himself to Israel, was at a Marriage-feast in Cana of Galilee, where he turned Water, and a great quantity of it into Wine. After that he fed more than once a great multitude, even several thousands with a few barley-loaves and small fishes, which were so miraculously multiplied, that after they had eaten and were filled, his followers gathered up more fragments than there was at first in whole meat. He healed all manner of Diseases, whether the diseased were present or absent; and this he did, as likewise his other Miracles, with a words-speaking. Some of those wonderful Cures he did on the Sabbath-day, for which the Pharisees (his inveterate enemies) did find fault with him, though they could not deny the matter of fact. He made the Lame to walk, the Deaf to hear, the Dumb to speak, the Blind to see, concerning which the chief Priests and Elders had not only the attestation of bystanders, but the Confession of the parties themselves, whom they curiously interrogated about the thing done, and his manner of doing it. He cleansed many Lepers, and cast out many Devils, which his enemies beholding could not deny, but blasphemed, and said, that he did it by Diabolical aid, and that he cast out Devils by Beelzebub the Prince of Devils. Some who were dead he restored to life again, particularly one that was carrying to his grave, and another that had lain some time in his grave, even till his friends said that he stunk. And this he did in the sight of many Jews, who thereupon believed in him, having seen the Miracle that he did; yea the chief Priests consulted about making away Lazarus, the person so miraculously raised, because that by reason of him many of the Jews went away, and believed on Jesus.  
The time limited for my Discourse would fail me, should I but instance in the twentieth part of those many uncontrolled Miracles which Jesus wrought in the space of three years or thereabout. And when his hour was come in which he should be cut off, though not for his own sins, (as the Prophet Daniel had foretold) and should make reconciliation for iniquity, and bring in an everlasting righteousness; even when he hung upon the Cross, and was made sin and a curse for us, than there was a quaking of the Earth, a rending of the Rocks; yea the vail of the Temple was rend from the top to the bottom, and for the space of three hours the Sun was darkened without any Eclipse; which was noted as a prodigious thing by the learned Astronomers of those times, one of which is reported to have said, That either the God of Nature suffered, or the frame of the World shall suddenly be dissolved. Yea the Centurion and his Soldiers that attended, had such consternation at the things that happened, that they feared greatly, and said, Truly this was the Son of God. But above all, his Rising again from the dead is most remarkable; therein he declared himself to be the Son of God with power. This fell out on the third day as he himself had foretold: And if this one thing be cleared up, it is instead of a thousand Demonstrations. Now the greatest evidence that we can possibly have of a thing of this nature, is the testimony or attestation of others. This then is attested by a cloud of Witnesses; they were not a few, but many, to whom he shown himself alive, and that many times after his Passion, by many infallible proofs, being seen of them forty days, and speaking of the things pertaining to the Kingdom of God. There are but two things that can possibly be objected against their Testimony. The first is, That those persons, who were witnesses of his Resurrection, (as they called themselves) might possibly be deceived, and that they saw a fantastical instead of a true Body. But this could not be, for they did not only see, but feel and handle him; yea, one of them put his finger into the holes in his hands and feet, and his hand into his side, such was his incredulity. They did not only feel and handle him, but they did also eat and drink with him after he Risen from the dead. If an Argument drawn from all those senses will not hold, how then can we be sure that we ourselves, and all the persons we converse with, are not Phantasms and mere Apparitions? And how could the Jews be sure that it was Jesus whom they crucified, and secured in the Sepulchre? In the same way that they were sure of the one, his followers were sure of the other. But if they were not deceived, yet, secondly, they might be deceivers. They might steal away the Body of Jesus by night, and give it out that he was risen from the dead next morning. Two things show the incrediblity of such a thing. 1. It is not credible his followers could do it. The chief Priests were ware that he had spoken beforehand of his Rising the third day, and they foresaw that if this happened, the last error (as they counted it) would be worse than the first. Therefore they obtained leave of Pilate to make all sure, and some of them went themselves to see it done, and then they placed a strong and diligent Watch to keep the Sepulchre. But here it may be objected, that the Watchmen fell asleep, and then his Disciples came and stole him away. This indeed you Jews believe to this day, and we know your Ancestors hired the Watchmen to spread abroad this report. But then, Why were not they punished for their carelessness and oscitancy? And if they were asleep, How could they tell what the Disciples did? And if they were awake, Why did they not oppose them that did it? The keepers for all their hire did make another relation of what happened; How an Angel descended with great splendour, whose countenance was like lightning, and rolled away the stone at the mouth of the Sepulchre, which did so terrify them, as that they became as dead men. Is it credible that the Disciples, if they stole away the Body of their Master, would stay to strip him, and lay the Linnen-cloths so decently by themselves? Would they not rather have carried him away in his Winding-sheet, especially when he was wound up in Linen with a mixture of Myrrh and Aloes, which hath a clammy and glutinous property? Would they not have been afraid lest any of the Keepers should awake, but stay and do so needless and difficult a work? But then, Secondly, as they could not do this if they would, so 'tis not credible that they would have done this if they could. Their writings, their conversations, show them to be persons of great integrity and holiness; whereas if they had done this thing, and imposed upon the World in this kind, they would have been a company, not only of very wicked persons, but of incarnate Devils. Mahomet's villainy would not have compared with it. What, to belly God in such a manner, and to cry up Faith in Jesus as risen again from the dead, when he is still under the power of Death, and no otherwise risen than as they stole him out of the Grave! This would have been hellish unparalleled wickedness, and to be abhorred by all men of common honesty. But to put this out of question, there were other witnesses of his Resurrection besides his immediate Disciples. He was seen in Galilae of above 500 persons at once; many of whom lived a long while after to witness what they had seen: And had his Disciples and others conspired together so foully to belly God and their own Consciences, we may imagine it must have been for some advantage to themselves; but contrariwise, they knew that to profess Christ and the Christian Religion, was to bring upon themselves and theirs the greatest odium and persecution.  
Yea God himself would have abhorred such Miscreants; but on the contrary we find they are approved of God, and that by many miraculous signs and wonders which he did by them, and by that abundant measure of his Spirit which he poured out in extraordinary gifts and graces upon them. And this would have led me to the last term in my assumption, that Jesus his testimony of himself was confirmed not only by his own Miracles, but also by the Miracles that his followers did in his name. For the truth is, they did as great Miracles in the Name of Jesus, as ever he did in his own person. They cured all manner of infirmities, and that not leisurely by the application of Medicines; but suddenly and miraculously by a words speaking. The very shadow of Peter, one of his Disciples, healed the sick as they lay in Beds or Couches in the Streets. A certain man aged 40 years and upward, that had been lame from his mother's womb, was carried and laid daily at the Gate of the Temple, which was called Beautiful, to ask alms of them that entered into the Temple. To him this Peter said, Silver and gold I have none, but such as I have, I give thee: in the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, rise up and walk: And he took him by the right hand, and lift him up, and immediately his feet and ankles received strength, and he entered into the Temple, walking and leaping, and praising God. This was manifest to all them that dwelled in Jerusalem, and acknowledged to be a notable Miracle by the Rulers of the people and the Elders of Israel. One Dorcas that was dead, he restored to life with a words speaking, which was known to all the inhabitants of Joppa, which occasioned the conversion of that Town to the Christian Religion. I might instance in the Miracles that were wrought by other Disciples and followers of Jesus. Let me conclude with a word or two concerning Paul, who was once mad against the Christians, and did zealously persecute them in every City. He was miraculously converted by Jesus Christ's appearing to him in the way as he went about this work to Damascus; a great light shone round about him, which his Companions saw as well as himself, and a voice spoke to him saying, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me? It is hard for thee to kick against the pricks. He was struck blind for many days: But anon the eyes of his body and mind both being enlightened, he preacheth that Faith which before he persecuted; and, which is to our purpose, many signal and special Miracles were done by his hands, so that from his Body were brought to the Sick, Handkerchiefs, or Aprons, and the Diseases departed from them, and the evil Spirits went out of them. But I forbear any further naming of these particulars; and having thus clearly and fully proved the Premises, I hope you will yield the Conclusion, which is, That Jesus of Nazareth is the Messiah.  
After a short pause, L's friend, the Rabbi, broke silence, and spoke as followeth. Sir, I desire you would have the like patience in hearing my answer, as I have had in hearing your argument. The Question before us is of greatest consideration, both with us Jews, and you Christians; and you may imagine that before now, I have debated it both with myself and others. I remember some years ago in Portugal I was assaulted with this very Argument of proving Jesus of Nazareth to be the Messiah, by his working of Miracles; and finding that it was much urged by the Christians, I spent some time in studying that point, and formed an answer to this argument in writing, and that Writing I brought with me; which I the rather did, because my friend told me, this was the Subject to be argued, and I did suppose you might happily attempt the proving of it by this very medium: And because I have a bad memory, and speak no good English, I shall beg leave to make use of my Papers. So having pulled a little Manuscript out of his Pocket, and turned over a few leaves, he made a fold at the place he sought, and laid it by him a while, and thus proceeded. As to that, Sir, which you called your Proposition, I shall offer nothing in contradiction to it, it seems to be founded on the greatest reason; nor will any of ours gainsay those two positions you mentioned, 1st, That God only can work real Miracles. 2dly, That he will not, as I remember you well expressed it, set his Seal to a lie. Jehovah is a God of Truth and Righteousness.  
But, Sir, as to that which you called your Assumption, it doth not in our opinion carry the like evidence and demonstration with it. For to be plain with you, it doth not appear to us, That though Jesus of Nazareth did testify he was the Messiah, he confirmed that Testimony by such infallible Miracles, either of his own or his followers; nor hath any thing been urged by you for the manifesting thereof, but what you have found in your own Books, which you cannot but know are questioned by us as to their Authority and Verity. And surely had our Fathers, and the Chief Priests of our Nation, seen any such Miracles done by Jesus of Nazareth, as your records do mention, they were men of that Religion and Learning, that they would not have so evilly entreated him, but would have paid him more respect and veneration. We believe therefore, as our Ancestors have believed before us, that they were some of them Forgeries and feigned Miracles, and that others of them (pardon the word) were Diabolical achievements. And we are the more confirmed in this belief, because your latter Records and Chronicles do tell us of multitudes of Miracles, which were wrought as they say by men and women of your Religion, which seem to us to be very fabulous, yea ridiculous. Yet these are received amongst you likewise as certain and infallible, and have the approbation of your Church, and of the High Priest whom you call the Pope, and the Sanhedrim of Cardinals. And some of these do vie with the Miracles of Jesus and his Disciples, and seem to be much of the same sort or kind. Let me name a few of many, and they are such as I have taken out of great Authors, and licenced or allowed Records. And pardon me if I don't cite the Author and places where they are chronicled; if you desire it I can produce my vouchers for every story, and those such as are authentic. Then taking up his little book, and putting on a pair of Spectacles, he read as followeth. Your words, said he, do first make mention of Jesus his miraculous Conception, before they speak of his and his followers miraculous actions. This I have heard urged by others, though it was omitted by you, How he was conceived of the Holy Spirit, and then born of a Virgin without the knowledge of man. A like Miracle is recorded in one of your Church-histories published not long since with allowance; how St. Kentigerne's Mother begged of Jesus, that she might imitate his Virgin-mother in the conception and birth of a child: accordingly within a little time she finds herself with child, but often protests she never knew any man. But by the Law of that Country where she lived, she must be cast headlong from the top of a high mountain. She weeps and prays, but the Executioner does his work, down she falls, but is so far from being killed or dashed in pieces, that she has no bruise or hurt. Then she is carried on shipboard many miles into the Sea, and there turned out into a small boat of leather, destitute of all humane help; yet with great speed and safety she arriveth at a far distant Port; and landing, she is delivered of that admirable Saint, and miraculously conceived son, St. Kentigerne.  
As to Miraculous actions, the forementioned book, and others of equal or greater authority, will afford plenty that do not only compare with, but exceed the Miracles of Jesus and his Disciples. As for instanee, your Records speak of Jesus his fasting forty days; and I can show you where 'tis recorded of St. Patrick, that he fasted a whole Lent, (which I think with you is forty days) without any humane sustenance, where one St. Ardan is said to fast full fifty days, and to grow fatter upon it.  
And whereas it is said, That Jesus fed five thousand persons with five loaves and two small fishes, St. Patrick is said to have fed fourteen thousand men with one Cow, two Stags, and two wild Boars; and it was talked how next day the Cow was alive again.  
And as for Jesus his turning Water into Wine, it is not so much as is commonly affirmed of your Priests, how by repeating four or five words, they can turn Wine into Blood, and Bread into Flesh, and that the Flesh and Blood of Jesus himself; though you affirm he is ascended into Heaven, and shall there remain till his second coming. And it is recorded of one Odo an Archbishop of Canterbury, that when some of his Clergy did doubt of such Transmutation or Transubstantiation, that he prayed with tears whilst he was at Mass, that God would convince them by a sign; and the body of Jesus which he held in his hands (that is the bread) began to pour forth blood into the Chalice; which they perceiving, desired the Prelate to pray that the blood might be changed again, lest vengeance should fall upon them for their incredulity; he doth so, and it became wine.  
Again, whereas your Records speak how Jesus and his Disciples did heal all manner of Diseases, whether the Diseased were present or absent, and that with a words speaking; the like is also recorded of some of his more modern followers. Take for instance St. David a great light of the Church, as he is called; He invited St. Kined to come to his Synod; St. Kined excused himself, because he was lame and crooked, unfit for such holy company, and unable for so great a journey: Whereupon St. David prays him straight and sound. But the other still delayed his coming; upon which St. David unprays his former prayer, and he becomes lame and crooked again. St. Bernard had great success, as appears in your Histories this way, for he cured one in Spain of a fore disease whilst he was in France; he cured one of a Dropsy by putting his own girdle about him; another of the Headache by sending him his cap to wear; another that lay a dying, he restored by sending him his coat; with a many more of the like kind.  
As for casting out of Devils, nothing is more ordinary than for your Priests to do that feat by their Exorcisms; your holy water with the sign of the Cross is said to be frequently successful in this work. And I find in one of your Histories, how a Woman was dispossessed of seven Devils at Lauretto by calling on the Virgin Mary for help; and when four were cast out, the other three called Heroth, Horribilis, and Arcto, with much difficulty were removed, one cries out, Mary, Marry, thou art too cruel against us; another howled lamentably, and said, Marry, thou art too powerful in this place, where thou dost force us out of our possession against our will. And the Priest, who by Mary's aid did this Miracle, made him tell what place that was: who answered, it was the Virgin's Bedchamber, wherein after the Angel Gabriel's message, she conceived God; which was, as other Histories speak, brought thither by a Miracle. Nay, some of your great Saints have contended with the Devil and worsted him; as St. Dunstan, who catched him by the Nose with a pair of hot Tongues, and plucked him so hard, that the Devil was glad to shift from him by breaking down a Wall, crying out, it did so smart, once and again, oh what hath this Baldpate done!  
As for raising the dead, this also hath been frequently practised. St. Francis makes one die that answered his disciples roughly when they would have borrowed his Cart, and afterwards raised him up again, and restored him to life. A man and his Son going a Pilgrimage to St. James at Compostella, light upon a wicked Host, that first makes them drunk, and then puts two Silver Cups into their Wallets. They are pursued, and being taken and tried, the Son was hanged, the Father goes on his Pilgrimage, and returneth Thirty six days after to thebody of his Son still hanging; he maketh grievous lamentations, till by and by the hanged Son began to comfort him, saying, Most dear Father, weep not, but rejoice, for I was never better in all my life; St. James supports and comforts me with heavenly sweetness: The Father overjoyed, makes known the business, the people flock together, the man is taken down, and the Host hanged up in his room.  
I could show you where St. David is said to have raised a Boy from the dead, who afterwards waited upon him. St. Patrick to have raised one from the dead that was almost devoured by Hogs. And St. Alban being to be Martyred, people thronged to see his Martyrdom, and crowding very hard by a deep River, many fell in and were drowned: The Saint perceiving it, prays that all might see his passion; and to that purpose the Waters may be dried up: It was done accordingly, and those that were drowned before, are now found safe at the bottom of the River.  
Again, whereas it is recorded, that Jesus raised himself from the dead: I can turn you to Records in great credit with you, where some of your eminent Saints are reported to have done things little inferior thereunto. St. Dennis the Patron of France, when his head was cut off, carried that head of his two Miles in his hands. St. Winifred vowing Virginity, was wooed by a King's Son: To make her escape, she pretends to dress her (for he found her much unready) and to return again; but out of a backdoor she goes, and makes towards the Church: on the side of a Hill she is overtaken by her Suitor, whose love was turned into rage; and she continuing in her obstinacy, he cut off her head, and there risen up a Well, which still bears her name: The head tumbles down into the Church amongst the People, St. Benno takes it up, seeks the murderer, and finds him wiping his bloody Sword upon the grass; he pronounceth his Curse against him, whereupon he falls down dead. St. Benno often kissing the Head, joins it to the Body, covers it with his Mantle, and goes to the Altar to say Mass; that done, to the Body he returns and gins a Sermon, and prays for the Virgin, whereto the People say Amen: Presently the Virgin riseth up as if it were from sleep, wipes her face from dust and sweat, and goes to the Church to give thanks: Only where the section was made, there was a circle like a white Thread all her life. St. Clare, a Noble English man, to avoid Marrying a noble and beautiful Virgin, runs away to France; there a Lady falls in love with him; to scape her, he leaves the Monastery he was in; this turns her kindness into fury: she sends two Murderers, who cut off his head; he riseth straight, and with his hands takes up his Head, carries it unto a Fountain, into which he cast it; thence he takes it again, and carries it unto the Oratory of his Cell, and thence went forward to a little Village near the River Epta; where for aught appears he ended his procession. My allotted time will not suffer me to proceed, though I have collected some scores of these Miracles; and indeed there is great plenty of them to be had. In one thing, to conclude, the Miracles of these modern Saints, exceed the Miracles of Jesus or his immediate followers; for they are recorded to have delivered Souls out of Hell-torments, which Jesus himself did never pretend to do. Gregory the Great (one of your Chief priests) wept so long for Trajan the Emperor, that he obtained deliverance of his Soul from Hell, although we read he was charged to ask no more so great a favour for any, at least, that died unbaptised. So St. Dunstan delivered King Edwins Soul from Infernal torments; and when the Devils quarrelled with him about it, he stopped their mouths by ask them what reason they had to find fault with it, if Christ and he thought good to pardon him? St. Nicholas also delivered his own Brother's Soul from Hell, though it cost him Fifteen days and nights praying and weeping, as St. Antonine reports. Now Sir, I think I am even with you in point of Miracles, and must tell you, that we Jews (however we are charged with Infidelity) are not such Infidels, or Idiots rather, to believe a reality in any of these Stories. Surely the Almighty Power would not trifle thus with mortals. These are therefore either errand Forgeries, or else devilish Achievements; and we cannot but think the same of the Miracles of Christ and his Disciples, because the one are recorded and received by you as well as the other: And therefore they are no proof that the Testimony of Jesus was Divine, or that he is the Messiah.  
Father S. sat all this while (as I could perceive) very uneasily; and when the Rabbi had ended, he never looked up, nor made one word of reply; but his countenance as well as his silence, did argue him full of confusion and disturbance in his mind. I looked upon Mr. B. and shook my head, I feared occasion might be given these Jews to triumph if the Conference ended thus; and that they would be hardened themselves, and would also harden others in their unbelief and prejudice against the Christian Faith; wherefore I hoped that Mr. B. would take up the argument, and confute the Rabbi's cavils: Nor was I disappointed; for anon he risen up, and drew nearer the Table, and said, Sirs, you have greatly obliged me, in permitting me to be present hitherto in the capacity of a Hearer, and you will further oblige me, if you will permit me (now there has been so long a silence) to interpose a little as a Speaker. As my Discourse is not premeditated, so it shall not be prolix. The Argument this worthy person hath urged to prove that Jesus (our Lord and Saviour) is the Christ, is of greater weight than to be so easily blown away: As you have already granted his Major, so I question not but you will also grant his Minor Proposition, when I shall make it manifest, that there is a vast difference or disproportion betwixt the pretended Miracles that you have gleaned out of some latter Writings, and the real Miracles that were done by Jesus our Lord, and his immediate followers, as they are recorded in the Scripture. As for the former, falsehood and forgery is engraven upon them in capital Letters.  
This will appear if you consider how the report of these Miracles comes not forth till many years after they are done; or there is no mention of a competent number of credible persons that were witnesses of the doing of them. Besides, the greatest number of Christians either never heard or never approved of any such Miracles; yea there is nothing they have more disowned both by word and writing, than the Legends of such fabulous Wonders; they have always accounted them as a subtle device of Satan the old Serpent to disparage the Christian Religion, and the wicked policy of a certain Sect amongst them to uphold an Antichristian faction. Let it not stumble you that I speak of Sects and Factions amongst us Christians, they are found in all Religions, they are with you Jews, and they were of old with your Fathers, who were divided and crumbled into Sects and Parties, such as the Pharisees, Sadduces, Essenes', Herodians, and the like. With us Christians there is a great Sect or Faction of those who are commonly called Papists, or roman-catholics, who have made the greatest schism or rent that ever was in the Christian Church, who anathematise and curse all those that are not of their Faction or Communion; and although they are numerous, and pretend to be the Catholic Church, and do fill Spain and Portugal, and some other Countries, with which it may be you have been most conversant; yet they are but few comparatively, that is in comparison of other Christians that are in the Western and Eastern parts of the World, as the Protestants of several Kingdoms and Commonwealths, the Moscovites, the Greeks, the Abassines, the Armenians, the Copties, the Circassians, the Mengressians, the Georgians, and the like. 'Tis then with this Popish Sect only that these fictitious Miracles are found; the generality of Christians do openly declare that Miracles are long since ceased; nor was there any need of their continuance in the Church, the Christian Faith being already not only sufficiently, but abundantly confirmed by the Miracles, the infallible Miracles of our Saviour, and the Primitive Christians, who shown their Patent or Commission under this Broad-Seal of Heaven, to the conviction and utter silencing of their most obstinate enemies, both Jews and Gentiles. You know that Moses confirmed the Law, and the Ordinances thereof, by Miracles first wrought in Egypt, and afterwards on Mount Sinai, and in the Wilderness; but when your Fathers were convinced of Moses his Authority, and were once settled in the Land of Canaan, than those Miracles ceased. So the Gospel and the Ordinances thereof were at first confirmed by the uncontrolled Miracles of our Saviour and the Primitive Christians, (as indeed it was meet that those who pretended a new Revelation from God, should confirm it with a Divine attestation) but since the Christian Religion is now diffused both far and near, for the same reason all Miracles are at an end. As men water Orchards at the first planting of them; but when the Trees are well rooted, they do so no more. But amongst the Schismatical Papists, Miracles are still pretended, who care not what wrong they do to the Christian Religion, or the common cause of Christianity, so they increase their own Party. By means hereof, they delude the more ignorant and credulous sort of people, of whose souls their Priests make great merchandise. In King Henry the Eighths' time, by the diligence of the Lord Cromwell, one of the chief Ministers of State, many of the abominable cheats and forgeries of the Papists in this kind were made manifest throughout this Nation, which was one great cause of the Reformation that followed. And it is no slight evidence of the verity and Divine Authority of the Scriptures of the New Testament, that this was foretold therein some hundreds of years before it came to pass; for so it is there recorded, that there should be a great Defection or Apostasy in the Christian Church, which also should be headed by the Bishop of Rome; and though he be not named, yet any one with half an eye may perceive he is intended: never did Glove better fit a hand, nor  a foot, than the Character the Scripture gives of the Head of that Apostasy doth agree to the Romish Pope: And concerning him it says expressly, That his coming should be after the working of Satan with power and signs, and lying wonders: In the Greek it is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, with wonders of a lie, an usual Hebraism, as you understand, to note the notorious falsehood of his wonders. And in another place it speaks of a Beast (meaning the same person), whom the world should wonder after, and worship too, and that for this Reason, Because he doth great wonders in the sight of men. This may fuffice for these lying Wonders, with their impudent Authors.  
But as for the Miracles of our Saviour, and his immediate followers, they are of another nature, and wear upon themselves marks of infallibility; they are recorded in the age and places when and where they were wrought; they were done (as this worthy person well observed) not in a corner, but in the face of the world, before multitudes of witnesses, and those persons of known credit and integrity. Insomuch, that your Ancestors the Jews, that lived in those days, and enquired diligently into these things, did never once deny the matter of fact, that such Miracles were indeed done; but they said they were done by Diabolical assistance? And others of them have said, that Jesus had found out the right pronunciation of that ineffable name, the nomen Tetragrammaton, and that it was sewed in his thigh, and that by the power thereof he did all his Miracles. How ridiculous are such evasions: It seems evident enough, that many of the Pharisees and Rabbis themselves in those days lay under this conviction, That Jesus came from God, and was the Christ, and professed too their faith in him, though the most of them did it secretly for fear of the Jews; Who had agreed, that if any did confess that he was Christ, they should be put out of the synagogue. Josephus, a man of great Learning, who lived near those times, and who was a Jew by Nation and Religion, in the 18 Book of his Antiquities, doth publish this passage to the world, That in the time of Tiberius Caesar, there was one Jesus, a wise man (if says he, it be lawful to call him a man); for he was the performer of divers miraculous works, and the instructor of those who willingly entertained the truth. This was Christ, who being accused by the Princes of our Nation before Pilate, and afterwards condemned to the Cross, yet did not his followers forbear to love him for the ignominy of his Death, for he appeared unto them the third day after, as the Divine Prophet had before testified of the same, and divers other wonderful things of him.  
Let me desire you to use your reason: Do but think with yourself, if the Miracles I am speaking of, had been forged or feigned, how easy a matter had it been for the Jews, that lived in those times, to have discovered and disproved the fraud and falsehood thereof? Put the case there should at this instant go abroad, a report of one in London, that did great Miracles, and that very frequently, that cured the blind, the lame, the deaf, the dumb, the diseased of all sorts that came or were brought to him, with a word speaking; that he cast out Devils, and raised the dead; and that his followers did the like, and that frequently in all parts of the Land; and that these things were done in the presence of thousands, of throngs and multitudes of people. I pray you judge if it were not the easiest matter in the world to disprove this, if it were false and feigned; and whether it were possible that whole Cities and Countries should believe it, and seal their belief thereof with their blood; nay, consider whether the easiness and certainty of disproving this report, were not like to bring them all under the greatest scorn and contempt imaginable, that should publish it. You see the case is parallel, and I need not stay to apply it; 'tis strange to observe, that the Jews of those times, whose hearts were ready to burst with envy and malice at the success of the Gospel, never publicly objected the forging or feigning of those Miracles by which it was confirmed. Yea, 'tis farther observable, that the Heathens themselves, and the great ones amongst them too, did openly assent to the reality thereof. We find it in true Records, how Tiberius himself upon a Letter from Pilate concerning Jesus, of the Miracles he wrought, and of the manner of his Death and Resurrection, did move in the Senate of Rome, that he might be admitted amongst their gods; and though they refused the motion, because, as some say, it was not first moved by themselves; or as others say, because if they received him, they must renounce their other gods; yet the Emperor persisted in his opinion of Jesus, and gave the Christians great liberty all his days.  
Yea, the Turks acknowledge Jesus our Saviour to be sent of God, and that he confirmed his Mission by Miracles, and upbraid the Jews for not believing God by his Prophet Jesus; and Mahomet threatneth judgement against them for it in his Koran, saying, that Jesus Christ was the Word and Power of God, sent to convince the World by Miracles; That he was born of a Virgin, conceived without an earthly Father by Divine inspiration; that he cured all manner of Diseases, and raised the dead to life again; That he was taken at length into Heaven, and shall come again: Thus much of our Faith is confessed by those Infidels. I could go forward, but that I see the time is well nigh expired that you allowed for this Conference, and therefore I shall not be guilty of a farther absurdity; but I beg your pardon for that I have already committed by an unrequested interposing in your serious debate. And for a close, I must tell you, Sir, that you must yield the Conclusion in this gentlemen's Argument, or else deny his major proposition, which yet you say is founded upon the greatest reason; or else you must fly to the evasion of your Fathers, which is, That Jesus our Lord did indeed work Miracles, but it was by the power of the Devil. And to say this, pardon the expression, is no less than Blasphemy: It is in effect, to say, That the Devil is God; and to ascribe the Attributes and Prerogative of God unto him. For if Satan can do such Miracles without control, to persuade poor mortals to an entertainment of error, and to delude the World, who have no sufficient means (as was said before) to discover the delusion, than it plainly follows that he is a God in Power, and the Almighty Governor of the World; or at least, that God hath so little mercy, or justice, or care of mankind, as to give them to the power of the Devil to be remedilessly deluded by him: And he that will believe this rather than the Christian Faith, deserves to perish in his blasphemy and infidelity. I have done when I have made this one request to you, That you will please to favour me with such another meeting, and I shall hope by the assistance of that Spirit which proceeds from the Father and the Son, which three are one God, the same in substance, equal in Power and Glory; I say by his assistance, and by other Arguments, and by those taken from the writings of Moses and the Prophets, and some of your own Rabbinical Authors, clearly and convincingly to demonstrate, That Jesus is the Messiah; yea, the only begotten Son of God, and the Saviour of the World.  
L. the Jew was much affected (as I did perceive) with Mr. B's close and warm Discourse (and indeed what with the matter, and his manner of delivering it, I think we were all affected more or less); he turns to his friend, and desires him by all means to accept of this Gentleman's motion, and appoint another meeting.  
The Rabbi made a low bow to Mr. B. and said, Sir, I hearty thank you for your plain and ingenuous Discourse, and I willingly acknowledge that I have received more information from it than from any person or Author that ever I yet conversed with; yea, what if I should say, Within a little you have persuaded me to be a Christian. I must not conceal, that it hath been the opinion of some of our Learned men, That the Messiah is come, and that for our sins he lies concealed. I have been often staggered in myself when I have thought of this matter. I dare not shut my eyes against clear light, but open them as wide as I can. Therefore, Sir, on this day fortnight at the same hour I shall gladly meet you, and, if it may be, I am content that this house in which we now are, should be the place; only I beg leave to bring one or two of my Brethren with me; and yet I desire also that we may be private, and that not above the number of three or four at most be present besides ourselves. I told them my House was at their service, and that I was rejoiced to see so good an effect of the past Conference; I called for a bottle of Sack, they drank in a friendly manner to one another, so L. and his friend took their leave.  
When they were gone, Father S. applied himself to Mr. B. and thanked him for his seasonable interposition, and desired his farther acquaintance. I must, said he, confess to you, That I am one of those that you call roman-catholics, but I was not ware that our Church by the Miracles she approves of, and allows to be wrought in her, did give such a stab to the Christian Faith, as I now find it doth. I confess I have been long of opinion that those Miracles of our Saints that are so much magnified amongst us, are most of them false and fabulous. And I remember that I have read in Ludovicus Vives, a learned Writer of our own, how he calls the Golden Legend a History unworthy of the Saints, and that the Author had a brazen face. Yea, he says expressly, that the lives of the Saints are corrupted with abundance of lies, and that the Authors did set down not what the Saints did, but what themselves would have had them done.  
Mr. B. understanding that Father S. was a Roman-Catholick, desired his pardon that he had spoke so keenly against the Church and Pope of Rome; adding, that he saw a necessity of it for the undeceiving of the Jew. And, Sir, said he, give me leave to tell you, that your Church by her lying Wonders, and forged Miracles, hath greatly disserved and disparaged the Faith of Christ, and gone about to invalidate the chiefest argument, as you yourself acknowledged, for the confirmation of it. And let me add, that the Jews are farther prejudiced against Christianity by the Papists amongst whom they mostly converse, especially in these Western parts of the World, and that is by your Adoration of Images, the Host, the Cross, and the Relics of the Saints; for they are great Zealots in the second Commandment, and utter enemies to all Idolatry. To which may be added, your debarring the general use of the New Testament, which is the probable means of the obtaining the knowledge of Christ, and the Christian Religion.  
Father S. replied, that though he was a Roman Catholic, yet withal he was a Christian; and I think, said he, 'tis high time for me and all Christians besides, to think of renouncing Communion with that Church whose principles and practices shall encourage men to continue Jews and Infidels; and as the Jew said, That within a little he was persuaded to be a Christian, so could he say, that within a little he was persuaded to be a Protestant. Upon this they take leave of one another, promising to meet again at the time before mentioned.  
Sir, I judged this Narrative would not be unacceptable to you. If any thing occurs in the next meeting that is worthy your notice, it shall be readily communicated by  
Yours in many Obligations, N. H.  
FINIS.