A CONTINUATION OF THE Friendly Debate. By the same Author.  Prov. 14.10. 
A wise man feareth and departeth from evil: but the fool rageth and is confident.  
〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉.  
London, Printed for R. Royston, Bookseller to the King's most Excellent Majesty, 1669.   

To the Readers.  
I Shall only detain you so long as to tell you a few things that concern the Motives to this Work, and the Author of it. For the former, take it from me (who know better than any body else) they are none but the Author's love to Truth and Peace; and his Charity to well-meaning and abused people. Think what you please; I am sure he is not naturally sour or quarrelsome, much less angry with any man merely because he differs from him. He hath not been exasperated by contending, nor put out of humour by fierce dispute; for he hath no Difference with any man living; he neither love's Divisions, nor lives by them. He hath as much respect also and regard as he desires: so much as may secure him from the temptation of envying, and the mean arts of seeking to gain a reputation to himself by disparaging other men. As for hopes of preferment, which some have said are his end, besides that he studiously conceals himself, I declare, that if he were capable or desirous of it, he would not be at so much pains to seek it. And as he seeks not to gain any worldly thing hereafter by his writing, so he loses nothing at present by that which he writes against. For neither he, nor any of his friends (that he knows of) receive the least prejudice by any man's Nonconformity, or separated Meetings; and so he should not have taken any notice of them, if Religion had not been concerned. But he is very sensible that this suffers very much; and that which many Ministers who keep separated Assemblies, cannot condemn, is condemned, nay despised, by those that follow them. For there is undoubted evidence that their not coming to the Common prayers, and not declaring plainly the true reason of it, makes many stand aloof of, and abhor our Service, as if it were the Mass. The people are seldom at leisure to examine the Reason of things, nor apt to put themselves upon that work without much urging: but they are always ready to follow-the example of those whom they admire, and the less they know why, the more forward they are to outdo the Copy they choose to imitate. So that the Ministers not doing what they can in compliance with the established order, and not declaring sincerely the causes why they do not, is interpreted to a farther abhorence, than they (if they durst speak out) are willing to own. When they do but signify their disgust, and that their palate is not pleased; their followers are nauseated presently, and their stomaches turned. If they make an halt, or a step back; those get the bit between their teeth: they kick and fling and run away. Now though this boggling and starting may be looked upon by many credulous and well-meaning people, as the effect of a commendable caution, or a quick sense or perception of an approaching mischief, and of an exacter difference they make between good and evil, than others do; yet experience tells us the contrary, that the more ordinary cause is defect of eyesight and confused apprehensions of things, Ignorance and humour, if not restiveness and Jadish tricks. For to give but one palpable instance of this among many; have you not observed at the funeral of a Friend when a Sermon has been preached, how a part of the company, as soon as they come toward the Church door, presently draw off and separate from the rest, as if they were going about some Idolatrous service? Would not a stranger think that some noisome and offensive vapour or stifling smoke ascended from our Devotions, which made these men so  to enter, till by the singing of a Psalm they had notice given that the air was clear and fit to breathe in, and then it may be they came in? But where lies the offence all this while, if we may be worthy to understand it? Is it in the white garment wherein the Minister officiates? But why, I pray, is this more troublesome (unless to the tricks I spoke of) than a black one? There is nothing frightful sure in three sentences of Scripture, in reading a Psalm of David, or a lesson of St. Paul; and yet this is all, save the Gloria Patri at the end of the Psalm, which one would think might escape with fair quarter, especially now that their pursuit seems to be so hot after the fresh game of Socinianism. I know there are some sober persons who descent from us, that are not thus skittish; and finding them humble, modest and not censorious, I not only love but honour them with all my heart. There are others also, who from the womb have been taught to start aside and to abhor our service; and being unable to reason and uncapable of better information, I pity them very much. Let them but be quiet and not seek to govern us by their fancies and prejudices, and I for my part shall not look upon their aversion as a vice, if they will not account it their great Virtue. For what if some Children receive impressions and inclinations in their infancy from their Mother's bigbellied frights or long, which they carry with them to their graves? What is the World concerned in this, or in those men's unaccountable Antipathies? Is any man more commendable for them? Surely no; but oftentimes more troublesome. You have seen its likely a person (pardon the instance I use, because it's familiar) as soon as the Cheese after Meal has been set on the board, presently make scurvy faces and change colour, stop his nose, or run in haste out of the room; yet neither the Master or guests are farther concerned in this, than to pity, or perhaps but smile or slightly compliment the man's infirmity; and none forbears the more to taste that hath a need or a good liking. But you never heard of any such man who, in a conceited humour, thought fit in this case, that his particular aversion should prescribe to all others; or raised fierce disputes about it in every company; and contended that this was no Primitive food, or at least that our way was not the Primitive way of making it: that endeavoured busily to make a party against it among the indifferent and uninclined either to love or hate it? much less that reviled and gave reproachful Nicknames to those that used it, and sought for Orders to banish it from every Table. If you could suppose such prodigious folly, you would not blame the Neighbourhood, especially the Officers, if they were concerned in it, or any that should represent the ridiculousness, or the malice of such an undertaking. I know the instance is not considerable enough to be applied to all things at this day contested, but to a great many it may; and expresses well enough the humour of those, who, according to their breeding, seem with an equal passion to oppose every thing they dislike, even to the colour of a Garment, or the fashion of a Girdle. You have enough (Readers) concerning the Motives to this Continuation of the Debate, when you are only told this farther, that the Author having heard of some exceptions against the former Book, thought good to Answer, and (as they deserve) to shame them in this. It is like some of our deceived Brethren will hold this labour damnable and execrable, 
Preface to the Confutation of the Errors of the Brownists. B. 2.  as being bestowed in their opinion, against the Church of Christ, against the Saints, and Children of God and his Holy truth: To whom I answer as the Non-conformists did to the Old Separatists, Let my tongue cleave to the roof of my Mouth when I endeavour to speak, and my Pen stick to my fingers when I attempt to write any thing, against the Church, the Children, or the Truth of God. But the Errors and follies in those whom I think to have some goodness in them, may I hope be reproved, without being thought to reprove their goodness: besides, by endeavouring to keep them from being Righteous overmuch, I take a course to preserve them from becoming too Wicked.  
And now I believe nothing would be more grateful to some than to know the Author's name: but I have nothing to say to them, but that it is an impertinent curiosity to inquire any farther after him, since he hath no mind to be known, and since there is no need of it. For his name can add no credit or strength to his Reasons; and as for matters of▪ Fact, he hath directed you where to find them, without enquiring after him to be resolved about them. But if any body think it good manners to inquire into that which others would have kept secret; Yet I am sure it argues great want of good breeding (to say no more) to bespatter (as some have done) this and the other person whom they only conjecture to be the Author; Laying to their charge things that they know not. Let me advise them to be more Civil; Since I am sure they do not yet know me, nor I believe, ever shall, unless I please; and since by disturbing themselves and others still in this kind, they are like to reap nothing save their own further shame. I end with the great Counsel which Mr. Whittingham long ago concluded a Letter of his withal 
* Troubles at Franckfort, Printed, 1575.  Know before you judge, and believe not all flying tales; keep one ear open and report the best.  
April 15. 1669.   

THe Reader may take notice that there is an Alteration made in this second Edition of almost two pages in the first, 364.365. The Author conceiving that those words of the Book which he confuted, should be otherwise construed than he thought at first sight, as was intimated in the Errata. But in stead of them, he hath now noted some other; very much deserving to be censured.   

IMPRIMATUR,  
Tho. Tomkyns, R. Rmo in Christo Patri ac Domino D more Gilberto Divina Providentia Archiep. Cant. a Sacris Domesticis.  
Apr. 24. 1669. Ex Aed. Lambeth.   

The Contents of the Continuation.  

THe Non-conformists affected language and foolish imitation of Scripture-phrase noted pag. 1.  
About taking God's name in vain, and breaking the third Command pag. 2, 3.  
The Covenanters highly guilty of it pag. 4, 5. etc.  
How Mr. Case taught them to take the Covenant pag. 7.  
Some pleaded Religion for breaking it pag. 8.  
Contrary to the solemn Protestation taken by both Houses before pag. 9, 10.  
Non-conformists offended at the Friendly Debate, and why pag. 11  
The Apostles sense of giving no offence, 1 Cor. 10.32. Ib.  
The Debate not guilty of it pag. 12  
Non-conformists did not think heretofore that they ought to forbear reading Common-Prayer, because some said it gave them scandal pag. 13  
Great scandal of Schism Ib.  
Of grieving the Godly pag. 14  
Non-conformists guilty of it in the proper sense by casting scorn on Divine Service and our Governors pag. 15  
Mr. W. Bridge an instance of this pag. 16  
Just severity against such defamers petitioned for by themselves heretofore pag. 17  
Answer to another objection against the Friendly Debate for being writ Dialogue-wise, etc. Ib,  
Non-conformists have writ Dialogues too, and those very absurd pag. 18, etc.  
Mr. Hughes' Conference noted Ib.  
And two more Ancient, one of which teaches to depose Kings, etc. pag. 21  
The Non-conformists pretence of not being guilty in breaking the Laws, because they are ready to suffer the penalties, answered pag. 22  
Their presumption that it is his Majesty's pleasure they should take this Liberty against the Laws, answered pag. 24  
Their change of Principles, who held heretofore, that the Law was the King's Superior pag. 26, &c  
Mr. W. Bridges remarkable for this Doctrine in a Book of his published by Authority pag. 27, 28  
More instances of their changing for their interest pag. 29, 30  
This remarkable in the Army Saints pag. 31  
Who writ after the Copy set them by their Superiors pag. 34  
That the Author of the Debate is of a harsh, bitter and jeering spirit, answered at large pag. 35, etc.  
Railing not the better, because in Scripture phrase pag. 39  
Some instances of Non-conformists reviling language, the better to show whence the present railers learned theirs pag. 40  
Reflections upon a passage in Mr. Case pag. 41  
An instance of sanctified wit as they call it pag. 43  
Some famous New England preachers guilty of foul language pag. 44  
That it hath woefully infected the people is apparent pag. 45  
And it is an old disease Ib.  
How they were served in their kind pag. 46, etc.  
The Author falsely accused of writing out of Malice, etc. pag. 51, 52  
How the Non conformists despise those that are not of their party pag. 53  
The Author's moderation in his censures pag. 54  
How he hath dealt with Mr. Bridge Ib.  
His way and spirit further discovered pag. 55, etc.  
Particularly, that it is Antichristian and schismatical, as appears by the Sermon of the two Witnesses pag. 59, etc.  
His dangerous doctrine about their power to disturb the state, etc. pag. 60  
His prefixing the time for it out of the Revel. pag. 62  
* How often they have been deceived in their conjectures About this time pag. 65, 66, etc.  
* The danger of interpreting every judgement that befalls, in favour of their conceits pag. 64  
A rare interpretation of the prophecies forenamed pag. 68  
A reflection upon those bold deceivers pag. 71  
The cause of these conceits pag. 72  
Their presumption that their platform should be a pattern to all Churches pag. 74  
Mr. Case his high opinion of the Covenant pag. 75  
His, and Dr. wilkinson's, and some of the Scots and others opinions of us pag. 77, 78, etc.  
And of the favours they receive from others pag. 80  
Of their Canting phrases, as Generation-work, witnessing time from pag. 81. to 91  
Dr. wilkinson's confidence noted pag. 85, 86  
How they have shifted and changed phrases to serve their turn Ib.  
Of the power of phrases to hinder men from observing how they have been cheated pag. 88  
The power they fancy they have to destroy us pag. 90  
Their opinion of their knowledge and worth pag. 93, etc.  
Of their practice and skill in expounding works of providence pag. 94, etc.  
Their people not more knowing than ours pag. 99  
Many know not what that is which they cry out against pag. 101  
Instances in Popery, superstition, Will-worship pag. 102, 103, etc.  
About forms of prayer pag. 106  
Their forms of railing, which they use even in prayer, etc. pag. 107  
Their small skill, save only in phrases pag. 110  
As appears by their easy turning to the wildest Sects pag. 111  
A famous instance of this in New England pag. 112  
Mistakes about the Spirits teaching and inspirations, etc. pag. 113  
This, together with the obscurity of their Doctrine a great cause of people's doubts and desertions pag. 114  
An instance of the intricate way of Mr. Hooker to satisfy a doubting Christian pag. 115  
And to bring it to the promise as he speaks pag. 116  
Hence the New England whimsies pag. 117  
Mr. J. Durants way of comforting believers and opening Scriptures pag. 118, 119  
They are no better at resolving doubts about particular actions pag. 120  
How Religion hath been spoiled of late and exposed to contempt pag. 123  
Non-conformists great want of Modesty pag. 126, etc.  
Concerning eminent men pag. 129  
Of judging others; in what things we may, in what not pag. 130  
Charity covers a Multitude but cannot or may not cover all sins pag. 131  
By what means profaneness came to abound pag. 133  
Publicans and Harlots, or Scribes and Pharisees, which the worse pag. 135, 136  
The danger of Schism and separated Congregations pag. 138, 139  
Mr. Bridge his vain conceit that we are angry because they withdraw from us and slight us pag. 140, etc.  
How 2 Cor. 6.17. is abused by him to countenance the separation pag. 144  
By which and such like the old Brownists and more ancient Donatists justified their Schism pag. 145  
The wise and charitable courses to which St. Austin directs us when men are generally bad pag. 146, 147  
Mr. calvin's judgement of a true Church and separation from it pag. 149  
And Presbyterian Minister's judgement pag. 151  
Act. 19.9. doth not countenance the separation pag. 152  
The impertinent allegation of that place Rev. 14.4. by Mr. Bridg pag. 153  
How the people have been cheated with the noise of such words as Babylon, etc. pag. 154  
And by other means pag. 155, 156, etc.  
Of Idol Ministers pag. 158, etc.  
The folly of those who think our Ministers (out of respect to themselves) are troubled to see people go to meetings pag. 161  
The true reason of their trouble, and the great danger of separation pag. 162  
Not only to those who are of it, but to others pag. 163  
The great extremities it hurries men into pag. 165  
The Presbyterian excuse that they separate not from us as Antichristian, considered pag. 166, etc.  
It makes their cause the worse, if it be true pag. 168  
Which tender conscienc'd men should consider, especially remembering the issue pag. 169, 170  
The disorders among the Independents, when in Holland pag. 171  
And more anciently among the old Separatists pag. 172, 173, etc.  
No security against the like, or worse again pag. 175  
In vain to bewail these Divisions unless we take a course to amend them pag. 177  
What belongs to private persons to do in order to it pag. 178, etc.  
Not study so much their Governor's duty, as their own, and what that is pag. 180, 181  
Of yielding on both sides pag. 182  
The ancient Non-conformists did not think they still ought to preach when they were deprived; but the contrary that they ought not pag. 183  
The idle pretence of some from that place, Woe be to me if I preach not, confuted pag. 185, 186  
And of not consulting with flesh and blood pag. 187  
Non-conformists do it too much Ib.  
Else why do they not teach as the old Non-conformists did, how lawful set forms are, etc. pag. 188, 189  
And teach this with great earnestness pag. 190  
Especially considering how miserably some are prejudiced against them pag. 191  
That exception answered though a form be lawful yet useless pag. 192  
Some reflections on a Book called Common-prayer Book Dovotions Episcopal Delusions, etc. pag. 193  
The profaneness, and choleric scurrility of it pag. 194, etc.  
The Ignorance and boldness of the Prefacer pag. 197  
Mr. Cartwright not against a set form of Prayer, etc. pag. 199  
How vainly he vapours with the name of Mr. Parker Ib.  
And abuses Mr. Greenham pag. 200  
But above all Dr. J. Reynolds, who lived and died conformable in all things to the orders of the Church of England pag. 201  
Some of the little reasonings in the book answered pag. 203, 204  
The abuse of a place of Scripture noted pag. 205  
The Liturgy smells not of the Mass-book pag. 206  
Antiquity of Liturgies by their own confession pag. 207  
The presumption and uncharitableness of this Writer pag. 208, 209  
His main Argument answered pag. 210  
After all his blustering he allows a prescribed form to be lawful pag. 211  
And is fain to wrest some Scriptures in favour of conceived prayers pag. 213  
His false arguing from Jer. 7.31. and such like places pag. 214  
How that place Deut. 12.32. is wont to be misinterpreted pag. 215  
It was the manner of Mr. J. G. to speak confidently, be the cause never so bad pag. 217, 218  
Non-conformists generally guilty of too much confidence pag. 219  
A gross corruption of Dr. Sibbs his souls conflict after his death, noted Ib. 220, etc.  
Of Forms of Prayer and of imposing them pag. 222  
Smectymnuus allowed impositions in some cases pag. 223  
The Presbyterians were against a Toleration of the Independent way pag. 224  
The Independents also impose their own devices & have forms also, etc. pag. 226, etc.  
Of Christian Liberty, pag. 229  
The opinion of Mr. Dury and Mr. Cotton, etc. about this pag. 230, 231  
Of Penalties pag. 232  
The opinion of Presbyterians and Independents formerly about them pag. 233  
How the King himself was abridged of his Liberty pag. 234  
The Independents for punishments pag. 236  
Some good Counsels out of Mr. Bernard pag. 239  
How to behave ourselves in doubts pag. 241  
Some good Rules to guide ourselves by pag. 242  
What to do if we think that is sinful which Authority commands pag. 243  
Rom. 14.23. Whatsoever is not of faith is sin, opened Ib.  
Of fear to offend others pag. 244  
The great want of charity and such like graces pag. 245  
How these good Counsels were contemned by the separatists pag. 246  
A description of them Ib.  
The Resolution of the Presbyterian heretofore about Uniformity and Obedience to Laws pag. 248    

ERRATA.  

PAge 3. Line 16. r. Ordinances,  
P. 4. l. 15. r. witness to any.  
P. 11. l. 18. marg. r. * Second part p. 135.  
P. 19 l. 14. deal almost.  
P. 22. l. 15. r. Discipline.  
P. 29. l. 9 r. should find  
P. 32. l. 18. r. packed.  
P. 48. l. 11. deal that, before you.  
P. 56. l. antepen. deal an.  
P. 60. marg. r. p. 122.  
P. 73. l. 1. r. persons come.  
P. 86. l. 2. r. the Generation.  
P. 94. l. 26. deal now.  
P. 120. l. 26. r. insnarked.  
P. 129. l. 20. deal and  
P. 149. l. 24. r. forsaker.  
P. 152. l. 21. r. neral of all, because of the graces of some.  
Ib. l. 18.21. r. Apostle.  
P. 177. antepen. r. as well as Innovations.  
P. 180. l. 8. r. inconvenient.  
P. 183. l. 19 r. objected.  
P. 188. l. 7. r. that it is.  
P. 215. l. 31. for abused, r. devised.  
P. 217. l. penult. r. suspense.  
P. 221. l. 7. r. that are Gods under God.  
P. 222. l. 21. r. Friends.  
P. 223. l. 6. r. a Book.  
P. 228. l. 1. r. A great.  
P. 229. l. 32. r. things are.  
P. 232. l. 28. r. their sincerity.  
P. 236. l. 19 r. selves challenge.  
P. 237. l. 32. r. may justify.    

A CONTINUATION of the Friendly Debate.  C. 
YOU are well met Neighbour, How do you?  N. C. 
Very well, through Mercy. Why do you sigh?  C. 
To see you so far from mending your Schism, that you proceed to make it wider; and divide our very language. Why cannot you speak as the rest of your Neighbours, and say, Well I thank God? Is it a commendable thing to be Singular without any need? and to separate from us even in your words and forms of speech? Or is this a part of the Language of Canaan (so much talked of in the late times) to be learned of all those, that will be accounted the People of God?  N. C. 
Take heed how you speak against the Israel of God. They are a peculiar people, and must not do after the manner of the Nations.  C. 
What Nations? Do you take us to be all Heathens? Nay, such Heathens from whom you are not only to separate yourselves, but utterly to root out?  N. C. 
You carry our meaning too far.  C. 
No farther than some of your Sect do, whom you have taught in a foonsh and dangerous manner to imitate the Scripture Phrasse? and to apply all that concerned Israel, to Themselves; and all that concerned the seven accursed Nations, or Egypt and Babylon, to their Neighbours.  N. C. 
I am not one of those; but I and many others, when we are asked about our welfare, dare not speak as you do, lest we should take God's name in Vain: of which you know Israel was to be very careful.  C. 
Is it to no purpose then to thank God for our own and our Family's health? Or to pray God would be with our Friend when we meet or part with him? Perhaps you think that Boaz took God's name in vain, when according to the Custom in Israel, he said to his Reapers, the Lord be with you: and that they were Offenders for replying, the Lord bless thee. I doubt ere long you will refuse to say upon occasion, GOD SAVE THE KING, for fear of taking God's name in Vain.  N. C. 
Not so. We can use such words when we are very serious, but not commonly.  C. 
You made me believe, the last time we talked together, that you were commonly, if not always, Serious. But now it seems the world is altered with you.  N. C. 
We are afraid you are not Serious; but use these words so carelessly that you break the Third Commandment: upon which account we would teach you to refrain them.  C. 
You are excellent Interpreters of Holy Scripture What a rare Comment should we have upon it, if all your Expositions were but gathered and put together? As you find words now used in common talk, so they sound to your fancy there: And this makes you take it so oft into your mouths in vain; I mean besides its purpose and intention. Alas! that you should be no better instructed than generally to entertain this conceit, that a man breaks the third Commandment, if he mention the Name of God, without lifting up his Eyes, clapping his Hand on his Breast, or some signification of Devotion! This absurd Fancy I have heard some allege as a Reason why they would not let their Children ask them Blessing; i. e. desire them to pray to God for them: And others have made this the cause why they would not teach them their Catechism, nor any Prayers, lest they should take Gods Name in vain; that is, in their sense, make mention of it, and not mind what they say.  N. C. 
I do not approve of such Opinions as these.  C. 
If you did, you would condemn yourself many hundred times in a Day. For how oft do you tell us in common discourse, of the People of God, and the things of God, and the Ordinance of God, not minding that you mention his Name. Nay how many times have we heard you say in your Prayers, O LORD, O GOD (sometimes thrice in one sentence) when we have great reason to think you did not know whether you used it so oft or no. Now, which will you say? That you sinned in this; or that it is sufficient to have an habitual Reverence toward Almighty God, and never to use his Name in an irreverent manner; though we do not always actually attend when we use it?  N. C. 
I have not considered this; but was always bred in a Belief that we break the Third Commandment when we use God's name in common talk; and that's the Reason I did not answer you after the usual manner.  C. 
It's well if you be not more careful to keep the Commandment in the Phrase-sense, than in its proper and Principal meaning.  N. C. 
How now? must we be beholden to you to invent a new word for us?  C. 
It cannot be new to you sure, who are so well versed in a Divinity that consists, in a manner, wholly of Phrases; and setting them aside, hath little or nothing in it, upon which account it may well be called, Phrase-Divinity.  N. C. 
You will never leave your Pleasantness. Pray talk more gravely, and explain yourself.  C. 
I'll tell you then what I mean. There are many I observe, who have been very scrupulous about the Third Commandment, and careful to keep it, as the words are vulgarly used in our language now a-dayes; who have made no Conscience at all of it, at least notoriously broken it, according to the true import of the Words among the Hebrews. For, as I have been taught, when Moses said, Thou shalt not take the Name of the Lord thy God in vain, etc. His meaning was; that no man should dare to call God to witness any thing he spoke, and yet utter a falsehood, or not do according to his promise. If he were so profane, he assures him that God who was Witness to what he said, would also be his Judge, and by no means acquit him. Now how oft you have broken the Commandment in this, which is the main sense; while you have been very strict to keep it in the other, I need not tell you.  N. C. 
You must tell me; or else I must tell you that you are like the Devil, a false accuser of the Brethren.  C. 
Your Ministers can tell you a great deal better than I, who were wont to complain of this as one of the most grievous sins of the times; that so many had forsworn themselves by breaking their Solemn League and Covenant. You covenanted, for instance, to extirpate Heresy and Schism; and such great diligence was used in this point, that they grew faster, and to a greater height than ever had been known among us. So Mr. Case tells the Parliament in his  Sermon for the taking of Chester p. 25. And asks them how it comes to pass that these abound more than ever they did, and that under their Noses? There is such a numerous increase (saith he) of Errors and Heresies, as I blush to repeat what some have affirmed, namely, that there are no less than an hundred and fourscore several Heresies propagated and spread in this Neigboring City. And many of such a Nature, as that I may truly say, in CALVIN'S language, the Errors and innovations under which we groaned of late years (He means under the Bishops) were but tolerable trifles, children's play, compared with these damnable Doctrines, Doctrines of Devils. Nor is he alone in these complaints, but Mr. Edward's 
* Epist. Ded. to both Houses before his Gangraena, 1. part.  craves leave to be free with them, and to tell them that Sects had been growing ever since the first year of their sitting; and every year increased more and more. No sooner had they put down the Common-Prayer, but down went the Scriptures themselves together with it, which many among us (saith he) slight and blaspheme. The Images of the Trinity, Christ, Virgin Mary, and the Apostles were ordered to be broken down; and at the next stroke there were those that overthrew the Doctrine of the Trinity, opposed the Divinity of Christ, spoke Evil of the Virgin Mary, slighted all the Apostles. The Parliament cast out the Ceremonies in the Sacraments, the Cross and Kneeling; and then the People in many places cast out the Sacraments themselves; Baptism and the Lords Supper. The one took away Saints days, and some of the other made nothing of the Lordsday. The superfluous maintenance as he calls it, of Bishops and Deans being cut off, immediately the necessary settled maintenance of all Ministers was cried down and denied too. Nay the Bishops & their Officers being gone, there were many that would have thrown away all Ministers after them. A great deal more you may find there to the same purpose if you have a mind; but he seems to sum up all in this; the Fourth Commandment was taken away in the Bishop's days (so he is pleased to calumniate them) but now we have all ten Commandments taken away at once by the Antinomians; yea all Faith and the Gospel denied by the Seekers. He would have inserted this clause sure, if he durst; the Third Commandment is now taken away by the Parliament. For I pray you, my good Friend, what remembrance had they of the dreadful name of God, to whom they had lifted up their hands? What a trifle was that sacred Oath now accounted? That water of life which (as Mr. Case fancied 
* Sermons about the Covenant, p. 66. ) had kept all the Nation from giving up the ghost, was dead itself; and had not the least spirit remaining in it, to quicken these Covenanters to extirpate Heresies. Nor would all the expostulations of their Ministers put any life into them: But as these complainers had violated other obligations in taking that Covenant; so now their Masters set it at naught, and, to serve the ends of State, continued to connive at those things which they promised to root out. For a great while after this, I find no less than three of your Divines (in their Epistle to the Reader before Mr. Pools book against Biddle) renew their Complaints, that the whole body of Socinianism which walked only in the Dark, and in Latin, in the Bishop's time, was now translated into English. Many bold Factors for those Blasphemies which in those times durst not appear, disseminating now their Heresies without fear, both publicly and from house to house: Which by the way may instruct you who are to be charged with a great part of the guilt and mischief of such Books as the Sandy-Foundation (i. e. the Doctrine of the Trinity) Shaken, and several others lately published. In short, this was a thing so notorious, that Mr. Case moves the Parliament (in that Thanksgiving Sermon p. 30.) that there might be a solemn fast to humble and afflict their Souls for Covenant-violations, and wherein the Covenant might be renewed in a more solemn and serious manner with God▪  N. C. 
These were hot spirits, and might be too forward to charge the Covenanters with taking God's name in vain when they were not guilty of it.  C. 
But you will not say that the greatest part of the London-Ministers were rash and heady. Now if you read their Seasonable exhortation to their respective Parishes, printed 1660. you will find, they complain of the Odious scandals of those that profess themselves the People of God: particularly of their selfseeking under pretence of the public good; and their unparalleled breach of all civil and sacred Oaths and Covenants both to God and Men.  N. C. 
This I confess is a sad story.  C. 
Consider then I beseech you; if these Leaders and great Professors were so guilty, what shall we think of the common People, who took the Covenant hand over head (as we say) being totally ignorant of several things to which they swore: nay were taught by Mr. Case (in his Sermons about the Covenant p. 41.) to take it, though they did not understand it?  N. C. 
I cannot believe you.  C. 
Go to the Book then and believe your own Eyes. There you will find he alleges the Example of Josiah for it, who renewed the Covenant when he was a Child; and of Nehemiah who made the Women and Children do the like. He was sensible indeed, that there is a great difference between that which was Divine, and this which was but the Device of men; and therefore would persuade them that they were bound no further by this Oath, than they should find the things contained in it to be according to the Word of God. But it is plain, I showed you the last time, the Parliament did not allow any Body to expound the Covenant but themselves. And beside this, they swore without any limitation to preserve things as they stood in the Church of Scotland, where for any thing they knew, there might be as absolute a Tyranny, as is exercised under the Papacy. Nay, in Scotland itself, there were some who argued so strongle against the Convenant, that a Jolly man I have read of, 
Mr. Andr. Cant.  was driven to such straits at last, as he had nothing to say but his, That they must deny Learning and Reason, and help Christ as Life. If you will give me leave, I'll tell you something worse than this.  N. C. 
How is it possible?  C. 
There were some that in plain terms pleaded Religion for the breaking of the Covenant: So that (contrary to Mr. nigh's Exhortation I told you of) with them there was Yea, and Nay. J. Lilbura for instance, in his England's Birth-wirthgt p. 29. saith, that the Covenant is impossible to be kept, and that the Framers and Makers of it have run into wilful perjury. 
See Mr. Bellamy's Vindic. of the City Remonstr. 26. May, 1646.  Nay, he calls it; This , persecuting, sould-destroying, England-dividing and undoing Covenant. With whom you may join Mr. J. Goodwin, who tells us (in his 12. Cautions p. 4.) that to violate an abominable and accursed Oath (speaking with reference to this Covenant) out of Conscience to God, is an holy and a blessed perjury.  N. C. 
Now I hope you have done.  C. 
It ought not to be forgot, that this Covenant was contrary to you Solemn Protestation, taken first by both Houses of Parliament, wherein they promised to defend the true reformed Protestant Religion, expressed in the Doctrine of the Church of England. Did they not?  N. C. 
Yes.  C. 
Whey than did your Minister persuade them to enter into this New Oath, which was so contrary to some Articles of our Church's Doctrine?  N. C. 
They explained themselves as I remember, before they Covenanted, and told us what they meant by the Doctrine of the Church of England.  C. 
Very good. And was it not finely done, that after the Members of both Houses had taken the Protestation, so as I now said, the House of Commons alone should make a Declaration, that by those words [the Doctrine of the Church of England] was intended only so much of it, as was opposite to Popery and Popish Innovation, and should not be extended to the maintenance of the Discipline and Government? And then that under this Explication published only by the Commons and never assented to by the Peers, this Protestation was imposed on the Kingdom, and all that would not take it declared unfit to bear office in Church or Commonwealth? What is there to be said, I beseech you, to excused these strange proceed. First, both Houses swear to plain words. Then one House claps an interpretation on them. And after that, they alone so far entrench upon the People's Liberties (which they were bound to maintain) as to impose this Protestation upon them without consent of Parliament: and that under a heavy penalty on those that should not comply with them. All this is no less than a Demonstration, methinks, that too many of you (for we will not condemn all) have been too forward to take God's name in vain; at least to engage yourselves in Oaths and Vows hastily and rashly. And withal it shows that you were of that imposing Spirit which you now complain of; and that Religion was more pretended than truly aimed at: And lastly, that you were so vainly confident your favour with God, that you could take his name into your mouths backward and forward, and never blush; so you did but look demurely, and express much reverence to it in common talk. All which I protest, is spoken to no other purpose but to humble you; and to show that you unjustly usurp the name of the most Religious People, the most conscientious, and the most fearful of offending God, that are in the Nation: and that you abuse the simple, when you make them believe that you are the Pillars upon which the Kingdom's welfare stands; for whose sake alone it is, that we were not made long ago like Sodom and Gomorrah. For it is manifest you have involved the people in abundance of guilt and made Religion vile in their eyes, and helped to bring the name of God, which you have taken so oft in vain, into great contempt.  N. C. 
This is not a place to talk in.  C. 
You say right: otherwise I should have told you of a fresh guilt of this kind. For I am informed some have set up Schools for the instructing Youth in Logic and Philosophy▪ directly contrary to the Oath they took in the University. But I am run beside my intention in this discourse: having told you, I remember, it would be in vain to dispute any more; and therefore desired, when we met again, the time might be spent to other purposed.  N. C. 
I have not forgot it. But if you will go in here, we will not wrangle at all, but only talk fairly, as loving Friends, of some matters in which you are concerned.  C. 
I suppose it is about our old business, and then you had better consider of what I have said already. If that will not move you, I have little hope to do any good upon you.  N. C. 
You are a strange man. When I had no great mind to be troubled with your Discourse, than you would never have done. And now that I am earnest to be satisfied in some things, you hang back and have nothing to say. Methinks you might be willing, at least, to receive an account of my Thoughts concerning our late Debate.  C. 
Have you then considered what I said, as you promised you would?  N. C. 
Yea that I have. And being somewhat staggered with it, I thought good to consult with some Christian friends, and hear their Opinion, which I prefer before my own.  C. 
And what was the issue?  N. C. 
I perceive they are generally offended at you to a high degree.  C. 
So were the Scribes and Pharisees at our Saviour. And for any thing I know both upon the same score, because you are plainly told of your faults. This nettles and vexes you at the heart: only to hid and conceal your secret anger; you call it by another name, and say you are offended.  N. C. 
No they are not angry with those who give them a private reproof, but to print a book against them, what can it intent, but mischief?  C. 
Now I guess at their meaning. Their offence is of the same nature with that which Mr. Edward's saith the Sectaries took at his Gangraena, * Because it hinders their making Proselytes, and so for want of growing up to such a number as they design and hope for, they may miss of a Toleration, and so in the issue a Domination, which is so much sought for by them.  N. C. 
They mean the same that the Apostle doth, who requires us to give no offence neither to the Jews, nor to the Greeks, nor to the Church of God. 1 Cor. 10.32.  C. 
By your favour Sir, Saint Paul and you have not the same meaning: as you might have learned long ago (if you did not converse more with your frivolous writers, than those who have some sense in them) from your great Champion Mr. Cartwright. He tells you expressly that by offence the Apostle doth not intent, that which displeaseth, or discontents, but that whereby occasion is given to any of transgressing against the Laws of God. For he is treating of eating things offered to Idols even in the Temples of Idols, or in the presence of such as were endangered thereby: The Gentiles being hardened in their Idolatry, the Jews provoked against Christianity, and some Christians drawn by such examples to follow them doubtingly. Take now the Word in this proper sense, and I shall be cleared from this imputation; and you yourselves condemned for looking no better to your feet, that they go not awry.  N. C. 
How so?  C. 
It is the very design of my Book to keep you from falling into sin any more: and to direct you to such a Course that you may not break the Laws of God again yourselves; nor cast such a stumbling-block before others, that they take occasion to break them too, If any have misinterpreted my meaning, or out of anger and vexation grown worse and more audaciously violent by my writing, they must bear the blame which they would throw upon me. Nay, a far greater blame, for they both take Offence, when none was given, and they notoriously give Offence to others, whom I would have kept from offending.  N. C. 
They will believe both alike; that you meant to take away Offences, and that they lay any in the people's way.  C. 
That is; they seldom believe any good of others, or any ill of themselves. But I do not beg your belief, for it is manifest to any unprejudiced reason, that the Book was sent abroad on no other Errand, than to remove stumbling blocks out of every body's way; especially your Shism which is the greatest of all. And if notwithstanding, you be scandalised, and confidently affirm it were better to forbear such writings, you shall be judged out of the mouths of some of the old and better Nonconformists. Who tell their Brethren of New-England (and I say the same to you) when they would have had them forbear to read the Common-Prayer because of the scandal it gave to some; It is a scandal taken and not given; and by forbearing, we shall offend you the more, if to confirm men in error be to scandalise them; yea we shall prejudice the Truth; and it might be an occasion to beget needless scruples in others, and draw men ignorantly from the fellowship of the Saints and the holy Ordinances of God, and strengthen them who by your own confession, are run too far into Schism already.  N. C. 
Whose words are these?  C. 
You may find them p. 16. in the Reply made 1640. by many Ministers in Old-England, to the Answer which their N. E. Brethren gave to their enquiry about 9 positions in the year 1637. And I would to God your Ministers would lay them to heart, and no longer continue to harden their Followers in Schism, by forbearing the use of that which they know is lawful. Remember I beseech you the famous observation of a great Author, 
* Lord Bacon Essay of Unity in Religion.  that Heresies and Schisms are of all other the greatest scandals, yea, more than the corruption of manners. For as in the natural Body a Wound or Solution of continuity is worse than a corrupt Humour; so it is in the Spiritual. Nothing doth so much keep men from the Church, and drive men out of it, as breach of Unity. One of his Reasons is, because every Sect hath a divers posture, or cringe by themselves, which cannot but move derision in worldlings and depraved Politics, who are apt to contemn holy things. It is possible you may thinks, for you are very censorious, that he was no better than one of those depraved persons, and so take no heed to his words. Let me remember your therefore, that there was a time when the Presbyterians applauded this observation, and laboured to serve themselves of it. For I find it cited in a Book calls wholesome Severity reconciled with Christian Liberty, licenced by Mr. Cranford 1644. where the Author likewise says, that the experience of former times makes us so wise, as to foresee that Heresy and Schism tend to the breach of the Civil peace, and to a rapture in the State as well as the Church. Of which he gives many instances, especially the Donatists in afric, and the Anabaptists in Germany. But now it seems you are grown stark blind; and whereas you had a foresight in times past, at present you cannot or will not see what is before your eyes—  N. C. 
I told you I would not enter into long disputes with you. But I am hearty sorry that your have so much grieved all the Godly.  C. 
You still persist in your old Uncharitableness, Pride, and high esteem of yourselves above all others. Or if you mean, only all the Godly of your way, yet you are guilty of great partiality; in taking a liberty which you will not give. For you say what you list against that way, wherein so many good people among us truly serve God, and make it ungodliness in us to say any thing against yours. Pray give me a reason, when you have duly considered it, of this unequal dealing. You speak and write against the Bishops, Common-Prayer, the Ceremonies; nay many of you openly revile them to the just grief of our People, and all this with a reputation of great Godliness: But we must sow up our mouths, and not say a word against you and your devices; or else be accounted ungodly and profane, nay it is well if we escape the brand of Atheism. What is this, but to imitate those Hucksters, who have double weights and balances, one for buying, another for selling? To have one measure for yourselves, and another for all other folk?  N. C. 
I do not approve of this.  C. 
But you side with those that play these tricks. And besides; you that are so loath to be grieved in the vulgar meaning of the words make light of grieving others in the proper sense of it. For you have so sorely galled and wounded many by your practices, that the Anguish hath been such as (according to the Observation now named) to thrust some back who were coming to us, and drive others out, who were among us. The Reproaches, I mean, which you have cast upon our Church, the divisions you have made, the confusion you have been Authors of, have been such thorns in some men's way, that when they were just at the door of our Church they have drawn back their foot and fallen back to the Popish Religion. Of this I have good evidence; and such as you dare not question of the other; that some have taken such distaste at the state of things among us, as to turn aside out of the right way, into the by-paths of Romish Superstition and Idolatry. Witness the Seasonable Exhortation of a great number of the London-Ministers; who tell us p. 10. That some are fallen from the Truth which they saw so much despised, and back slidden to Popery, as the only Religion, in their opinion, wherein Unity and Order is maintained. And a little after, p. 16. they say they are afraid lest too many may be too well conceited of that Religion, finding Rome justified by England's Confusion, as Sodom was by Israel's sin. You may say perhaps, according to your usual manner, that all these were wicked. But this is not so easily proved, as peremptorily said. And there want not good reasons to make us think, that several well disposed persons, by occasion of this Schism and the Scorn cast upon our Governors and Divine Service, which accompanies it; have forsaken our. Communion, and gone thither where they heard there was more Unity, Order, and reverence to Authority.  N. C. 
Our Ministers are as much against those, who revile your Worship and Service, or do not reverence Authority, as you can be.  C. 
How doth that appear? There is nothing more frequent with such as Mr. Bridge, than to teach the people that our way of Worship and Church Government is Antichristian. Read but the 5. of his Ten Sermons p. 370. and you will see I do not belly him. Or, for more full satisfaction, I refer you to another Book of his called Seasonable Truths in Evil Times 
* Newly Princed, 1668. , where you may find him instructing them too plainly (p. 118.) that such as he have their Orders to preach or prophecy from Jesus Christ himself; but Others (by whom he can mean none but our Ministers) have their Orders and power from Men, from Prelates, from the Beast: for these are all one in his language. Nay more than this, he teaches the poorest, weakest man or woman to go to Jesus Christ for a power to Prophecy: remembering them what one Alice Driver said in Queen Mary's days, I'll set my foot against the foot of the proudest Prelate of them all, in the cause of Jesus Christ. And therefore why should you not go to Christ, says he, and lay yourselves flat upon the Promise, and say to him, O Lord, I am a poor weak creature, I fear I shall never be able to bear my Testimony; but thou hast said, I will give power to my two witnesses, and I am one of thy witnesses: Now then O Lord, give power to me, etc. By which you may judge what he thinks of those Magistrates that uphold our Worship and Orders, and allow no such weak creatures as his silly credulous followers, to commence Prophets and Prophetesses, when ever they shall fancy that Jesus Christ himself hath given them Power and Orders to preach, and whether they be the Godly Magistrates or no, God's anointedones, whom he speaks of p. 110.  N. C. 
Those that I am acquainted withal dislike his boldness as much as yourself.  C. 
If the rest of your Ministers have such an hearty abhorrence, as I have, of those that cast dirt even in the face of Authority itself, let them show it by some means or other. Why do they not petition his Majesty now as some of your Churches did the late Protector not many years ago, that he would chastise such Persons as these?  N. C. 
I remember no such thing.  C. 
But I do; and you shall find it in the address presented to Richard Cromwell from the County of Northampton: There, after many high commendations of his Father (whom they call the light of their eyes, and the breath of their Nostrils) and great expressions of joy that he had left him to them as a most choice Legacy, they desire he would show tenderness toward the name of God against the bold Blasphemers of his Magistracy, Defamers of his sacred Ordinances, Seducers from Truth, Corrupters of his Worship. And then, that he would exercise just severity against despisers of Dignities, and revilers of Authority, Whose unhallowed Tongues (set on fire from hell) spare not to flash out their insolent reproaches and impious execrations against his Father's Sepulchre, and his own throne. But I consider that in those days it was their concernment to have despisers and revilers punished; Now they serve the Cause, and help to disgrace the present establishment: which is the reason, I suppose, that all the Churches are so mute in this matter.  N. C. 
You take the Liberty to say what you list; but let me say little or nothing: And when you have done, you writ a Dialogue between Yourself and a Nonconformist; in which you make him speak just what you think good and no more. Is this fair dealing?  C. 
Where did you get the sole privilege of writing Dialogues? You imagine, perhaps, we have forgot those that you entertained the people withal some years ago; but our memories are not yet so slippery. I call to mind, for instance, the Dialogue between a Country-gentleman and a minister of the Word about the Common-Prayer, answered by Authority 1641. And another between a Loyalist, and a Royalist, about our Civil Liberties, an. 1644. The first of these I can scarce forget, if I would; the Author of it (Mr. Lowes Hughes) imparting to me, such an extraordinary piece of Learning as this, that Kyrieleeson is a word compounded of Hebrew and Greek, signifying in English, Lord have mercy upon us. He furnished me also with a memorable reason, why the Mass-Book leaves out the Dexology at the end of the Lords Prayer; because the Pope, says he, will have none of his Church, neither Priest nor People, to give so much honour and glory to God. Which he was so well conceited of, that he repeats it twice within the compass of a few leaves. This good man, I sometimes fancy, would have been a chosen instrument, and done marvellous well, to write a RATIONALE of the Directory. In which he might have told us, that RATIONALE was a word compounded of Latin and English, signifying, All Reason. And informed us, in particular, that the cause why the Assembly left it to men's liberty, to leave out the whole Lords Prayer if they pleased, was only this, that all their Church might give all honour and glory to Jesus Christ. So I suppose his Affection would have made him say; though if he had followed his Reason it would have led him to this; that as the Pope left out some of it because he would not do our Saviour so much honour: so they permitted men to leave out all, that every man might do him as little honour as he pleased.  N. C. 
You cannot for your life forbear to lead me now and then to some mirth.  C. 
I intended only to represent how your Ministers sometime abuse themselves, more than any of us ever did. As for myself, I am not conscious of the least abuse I have put upon you; nor that I have made you say any thing but what your people are wont to talk. Certain I am that all the wit your Party hath, shall never be able to find any such Absurdity in my Book, as that Dialogue against the Common-Prayer is guilty of; where the Minister makes the Gentleman presently confess it to be full of Popish Errors; and to appoint horrible Blasphemies, and lying Fables to be read to the People. Nay, makes him cry out almost, almost as soon as they had begun their Discourse. O horrible! How have the Bishops deluded King Edward the Sixth, Queen Elizabeth, King James, and our gracious King Charles, and the whole State; and made them believe there was nothing in the Service-Book that is amiss, or any way contrary to the Word? God Almighty deliver us from them. I should blush to the end of my life, if after our whole debate I had concluded, as this man begun. But this is the way of those Sots that talk as if they were infallible, and would bear all before them by their bare word; nay, take it very ill if you be not converted, as soon as they open their mouth. Pythagoras is revived in some of you; and Mr. such a one said it, is of as good Authority, as the best proof in the world.  N. C. 
This was some ignorant Zealot, I believe.  C. 
So one would think; and yet he had so good an opinion of himself, that he thought such Works as these fit for the eyes of the High Court of Parliament. To whom I find he presented Certain Grievances an. 1640. of the very same import with this goodly Dialogue, but so absurdly slanderous, that you cannot but be astonished at his brutish stupidity. For there he tells them (as he doth the Gentleman at the conclusion of their Conference) that the Bishops have appointed some portions of Scripture to be read on certain days and omitted others, on purpose to pervert the meaning of Christ, and to keep weak Christians in blindness.  
The whole Book of Canticles for instance, is never appointed to be read; that the People (as he will have it) may not be able to see the ardent Love and affection of Christ toward his Spouse, the Elect: and they thereby be stirred up to love Christ, and be truly zealous for his Glory. Nay, if you believe him, the Books of the Kings, (all save the 8 first chapters) and the Chronicles were forbid, because they show that Godly Kings did ever love Gods true Prophets, and did hearken to them, and were zealous of maintaining true Religion, and suppressing Idolatry. In which words he discovered the very grounds of their quarrel with the King, viz. that he did not take such great Seers as himself into his bosom; and suffer them to guide his Conscience, as if they were of the Privy-Council of Heaven. But he discovered withal how little esteem he for his part, merited: Or rather how well he deserved to be stigmatised and branded in the forehead, as one, (to speak in his own language) that was a false-Prophet, Prophesying lies. For was there ever any man before this so impudent, as to put a Libel of this Nature against his spiritual Fathers and Governors, into the hands of the Highest Court of the Kingdom? Did any of the Priests or Prophets of Baal think you, ever help themselves and their cause by such invectives against the Prophets of the Lord? For my part, I am of the mind, that the Devil himself would be hard put to't, to invent more bold and malicious Slanders than these of this man's forging; who wanted nothing but wit to make him like that Father of Lies. And yet, I suppose, he passed for a Godly man, a precious Servant of Jesus Christ, a Faithful Minister of the Lord: Nay, was cherished and encouraged as one of God's Prophets; who had told them things that could be known no ways, but by a Revelation His Book also, no doubt, found wonderful acceptance, though it was stuffed with so much Ignorance and railing. The people read it with a blind Devotion, just as he was transported with so blind a Passion, as to accuse our Church of that, which all that had eyes must needs acquit it of. For both the Books of the Kings were Appointed to be read entirely in the later end of April, and in May. As for the Chronicles, they being little more than a Repetition of what was writ before, might well be left to our private Reading; together with some other Books, not easy to be understood without great Labour and long Meditation.  N. C. 
I wish you would dismiss this man, for he hath given us both too much trouble.  C. 
Your people would not, when time was, so easily lay his Book out of their hands, as I am able to prove. But let him go; together with all the Crew of Revilers that were before him. For you must know there were Dialogue-writers of the same Stamp in the days of your Forefathers. In one of which Books, called the Dialogue of White Devils, the Author expressly tells us, that if Princes hinder the bringing in of their Disciples, they are Tyrants; and may be deposed by their Subjects. A Doctrine which with all your reading in the Books of the Kings and the Chronicles you will not where find justified. For the people were better taught than to go about to depose those that did not favour the Lords Prophets. I know you all disclaim this principle; and I verily believe many of you abhor it: but I mention it to let you see what the Maxims of some of your Predecessors, emboldened some of their Posterity to do. For this purpose I could relate strange passages out of some Books esteemed by your Party; which would verify the censure of the Bishop of Down and Conner 
* In his Visitation speed at Lisnegarvy, 1638. published by Authority.  upon the Title of the Dialogue now named. Which he saith was very fit for such men's Books; for if ever there were White Devils, or Devils transformed into Angels of Light, it is in their persons who under the pretence of Sanctity, labour to bring in all manner of Disorder into the Church, and confusion into the Common wealth. But you have no mind we should remember any thing that is past; that so you may the more confidently fill the world with loud clamours, as if there never were such do, as now. Else you might know there was another Dialogue in Queen Elizabeth's days, between Diotrephes and S. Paul, in which the Discipline and its Favourers are magnified as Apostolical: but the Bishops of the Church of England made no better than so many proud Diotrephes; nay so many Devils; and he of Canterbury (so they speak) is Beelzebub, even the Prince of the Devils.  N. C. 
Still you will have all the talk to yourself, and I must hold my tongue. Pray give me leave to enlarge myself a while, for I am blamed, I assure you, very much for saying so little in our last Conference.  C. 
Speak your mind.  N. C. 
I must ingeniously confess that we cannot accuse you of such speeches as these; but yet you show your great malignity to us otherways. In particular it is very ill taken, that you make our Ministers guilty of breaking the Oxford Act, and the Act against Conventicles. For you make as if they were obliged to keep within that distance from this place which the Law prescribes, if they have not taken the Oath: And if they have; yet not to hold Assemblies (without Common-Prayer) especially in time of your Service. Now it is plain to us, that they are not obliged to keep these Laws, so as you would have them. Mark what I say; they do not refuse to obey them; only they cannot do it in your manner. There are two ways I have heard them say sometimes, of obeying Laws; either by doing what they Command, or by suffering what they inflict. Now our Ministers are content to endure the penalties; choosing to satisfy the Laws that way, which is most convenient for themselves.  C. 
Have you done?  N. C. 
Yes.  C. 
Then give me leave to tell you, I do not believe they are so well contented as you pretend. But if they be; they are no better observers of Laws than a Thief, who is content to be hanged after he hath robbed his neighbours. I doubt they are contented both alike, i. e. they hope to escape without punishment; and when they are laid hold on, they submit because they cannot help it. But when that's done, they are still both alike under sin; because it is not the thief's hanging, and your fine and imprisonment, which the Prince intends; but the doing that which he commands. If this be neglected, or you do contrary to his Laws; you offend God as well as your Prince, and are liable to be punished by both.  N. C. 
There is a wide difference in these things. For God you know requires we should not steal; but he doth not lay such Commands on us, as your Laws.  C. 
He requires you to obey the Magistrate; which your Apology plainly confesses, while you suppose he is sufficiently obeyed if you suffer the penalties of his Laws. Which I must tell you, is a ridiculous fancy; and makes the Magistrate a most barbarous Tyrant; who is as well pleased, or takes himself to be as well obeyed, if his subjects be hanged or broken on the Wheel after they have done a world of Mischief; as if they had been honest and peaceable Members of the Commonwealth. Away with these absurd doctrines: which suppose all Governors to punish the innocent; and all Subjects to obey merely for wrath and not for Conscience sake. You had best go and correct St. Paul: or else correct yourselves; believing that you are guilty of a sin when you do not the things which a Law not contrary to God's, requires, or else the Magistrate could have no right to punish you: and that your Punishment also is not to free you from the guilt of the First Fault; but to prevent a Second.  N. C. 
But this is not all they have to say for themselves. They are men of a tender Conscience, whatever you think; and have a great regard to the commands of their Governors; nay think they ought to be obeyed for conscience sake—  C. 
To what purpose then do they use the former shift?  N. C. 
Pray let me go on. They confess I say that Laws should be kept; and yet they are are well assured they commit no sin, in not keeping those you speak of—  C. 
They are wonderful men.  N. C. 
For they are very confident it is his Majesty's pleasure that they should take this Liberty against the Laws.  C. 
Good Sir, take heed what you say. How come you to know his Majesty's Pleasure? where did he whisper it so softly, that none could hear it but yourselves?  N. C. 
I was going to tell you, if you would but be patiented. We hold that since his Laws are not executed; it signifies his pleasure to allow us this Liberty; and we esteem it a sufficient warrant for our present practice: Nay, a tacit Declaration that he doth not desire the Laws should be obeyed. And upon this account you are justly blamed, who being but a private man have expressed greater severity against them than the Magistrate himself: for you have charged them with the guilt of Sin, when the Magistrate doth not so much as punish them. Do you not think the King can dispense with us? and doth he not in effect give us a dispensation when his Laws are not executed? Why do you then disallow, what he approves of? May not his Majesty do what he thinks good?—  C. 
I understand you well enough; and therefore these Repetitions are needless. But I would fain know what warrant they had when they first ventured to act contrary to those Laws. What assurance had they, that it might be done without danger to themselves, or dislike to their Prince?  N. C. 
Indeed, I did not think of that.  C. 
If you cannot satisfy that Question, you must acknowledge you have but spun a Cobweb in making this Excuse. And confess in plain terms that when they broke the Ice, and first took this Boldness, they were Sinners: and now they make one sin the Justification of another.  N. C. 
How so?  C. 
They first tried whether any notice would be taken of their abiding here, and of their closer meetings contrary to Law: and when they found there was none; then they ventured further, and opened their doors more confidently for all comers: and still there being no notice taken of this licence they gave themselves; now they make it an argument to justify what they do, and would persuade us it is as good, as if they had a licence from others for these unlawful practices. So I call them: for you must know further, that the Non-execution of the Laws, is no proof of his majesty's pleasure they should not be observed. For it may be imputed to the negligence of his Officers and Ministers in the discharge of their Duty. But if to serve your turn, you will say it is an argument of his will and not of their neglect; you must unavoidably serve some bodies turn besides your own. In plain English you must affirm it is his pleasure that the Mass should be said, and the Papists should take the same liberty and openness in the exercise of their Religion, that you do in yours. Nay, I do not see why all Drunkards, Swearers, and Blasphemers may not think themselves allowed in their crimes; because little or no notice is taken of any of them. To which I may add, that several persons who think the non-Execution of Laws is a warrant to you; yet find very much fault with your meetings in the time of our public Assemblies: Which is void of all sense if your Reason be good; for there is no more notice taken of that, than of your meeting at other times. And yet it is demonstrable that the not punishing your meeting in time of Divine Service doth not signify his majesty's pleasure to allow it; and consequently your not being punished, can never signify his pleasure to indulge you in other matters. For if from thence you can gather that he approves of what you do, then so may we if we list to do the same: And upon that ground may meet in little companies where we please, and leave our Churches quite empty. A thing, without all doubt, which his Majesty abhors to think of. You yourselves have declared in times past, that it is absurd to think, that Laws nay Ordinances of Parliament (even in matters of Religion) should not equally oblige all the subjects of one Kingdom. If therefore the Laws oblige us, than they oblige you: If they do not oblige you, than they oblige not us neither. We are all alike either bound or free.  
But to leave all these Considerations; there is something more remarkable me thinks in this case, that deserves to be remembered above any thing else. And truly I cannot but smile sometimes—  N. C. 
Why what is the matter?  C. 
I was going to say (but the very thought of your odd humour hindered me a little) that I cannot but smile to myself when I call to mind, how you shift your Principles and change your Maxims, according to your Interest. There is no Weathercock more guided by the wind than You are by this. For it was a Fundamental Maxim, heretofore, I well remember, and obstinately maintained among your party, who now fawn and flatter; That the Law is the King's Superior: and that he hath not so much power over it as to be its Supreme Interpreter: That his Oath ties him expressly to observe it; and binds him to see it executed. Upon which score all the Kingdom was filled with loud complaints about the Non-execution of Laws, and of the Indulgences granted to several persons who offended against them. For execution, they said, was the Life of the Law, without which it became, vain and useless. This was the bold Doctrine currant not many years ago, and he was held for a Malignant that did not believe it. But now on a sudden we hear you sing a new Song in praise of his Majesty's gracious Indulgence (for so you will call it) and withal you earnestly desire the Execution of Laws may still be suspended; that is, lie dead and become vain and useless. For which alteration, I can find no reason but this; that now the Indulgence is to yourselves and then it was to other folk. Then also you thought yourselves able to make the King bow to you; and now your Weakness forces You to worship him.  N. C. 
Where do you find any such Maxims? For my part I have forgot them.  C. 
I can send you to several Books where you may refresh your memory: particularly to the Medicine for Malignants; which tells you p. 25. That the King hath not power over the Law, but the Law over the King. But for your greater ease, I will only refer you to one small Pamphlet called Known Laws: in which you shall not fail to meet with more than I have said.  N. C. 
These, I believe, were the Maxims of the State-faction.  C. 
I know no difference between Them and your Divines in this matter. I am sure Mr. Will. Bridges (who differs from Mr. Will. Bridge as little as their Names do) makes none at all. In whom I find a passage so directly opposite to your present Opinions about the obligation of the Oxford Act, and declaring so fully the sense of your Divines about the King's Power, that I must crave leave to mention it.  N. C. 
I am content to hear it. But you must remember that these were but the Opinions of private persons.  C. 
You are mistaken. This man made an Answer (published by Authority 1644.) to a Book called the Loyal Convert, in which he tells the converted Gentleman, that he speaks illegally if he say the King can protect a Papist any way. His reason is Universal, though his Instance be Particular; for whom the Law Protects not, the King either cannot or ought not to protect. No, he ought not, as he tells us, so much as to require the help of such persons to protect him. For they ought only to be Tributaries, and to hold themselves to their U B I, to their place, Which words I would have you apply to that business which begat this Discourse. I would fain know of your Divines how his Majesty's Power comes to be so variable at their pleasure? Whence is it that He can dispense with your Residence in the V B I or place to which you are by the Law confined, who could not dispense at all with others, nor release them (no not for his necessary assistance) from that place to which according to your Doctrine they were immovably chained. The Law protects both alike; that is, not at all: what is the cause then that he can give you Protection, notwithstanding the Law; and not them? Mistake me not; it is the farthest thing from my thoughts to call in question the extent of his Majesty's Supreme Power. I only question your Principles, who pretend to be no Changelings. Answer me this. If the King have a power to give an Indulgence and dispense with the Law, why did you so rudely and barbarously clamour against him heretofore, and say the contrary? If he have not, why do you every where seek to justify yourselves in your illegal Practices, with a mere shadow and fancy of his Indulgence?  N. C. 
There is a great distance of time between the one and the other, and they have changed their minds upon second thoughts.  C. 
Very likely. And you believe also, that if Presbytery were in its height and Glory, his Majesty might dispense which the Laws of their making, as well as with his own: Do you not? Alas good man! you shall find, I doubt, to your cost, if things were come to that pass; that no Authority could remit the Rigour of them. For they have condemned all Dispensations and Licenses, as Antichristian. Their Decrees are so sacred, that as there lies no appeal from their Courts, so none may take Authority to relaxate their Laws. For they take themselves to sit in Christ's Tribunal Seat; and so their Laws are no more to be dispensed with than his.  
But why do I insist so long upon one thing, since there are so many instances of your wind and turn as your Interest leads you? There was a time I remember, when the Parliament was magnified as the only keepers of the People's Liberties. We were told 
* Observator on his Majesty's Answers 1642.  that we might not so much as imagine the Houses could be injurious; or that a Committee should have any private ends to misled them. And therefore they could nor sit too long, nor prove a burden to the good people. But now you are quite in another strain. There is no greater grievance than a Parliament. No more intolerable mischief than their long Continuance. For which different judgement there is no reason, that I can see, but this; that then the Parliament was for you, and now it is against you. The time was also, as I told you before, when the Commons alone might impose a Protestation on all the Subjects, under the Pain of being incapable of any Office, if they refused it. But now you will be free from all imposition of this Nature: And an Oath enjoined by the King and both the Houses, under no severer penalty than a small Restraint, is looked upon as a grievous Oppression. There are those likewise that can remember when the Commons alone put out another Order about some of the affairs of Religion: But now a Law enacted by the King's Authority, is thought an high invasion of Christ's Prerogative; and he must not meddle in matters of his Worship. The reason is; any thing may be done by any Body to advance your fancies, but nothing against them by no creature in the World. Nay, we have not forgotten the time when Mr. Case used this Argument among others to persuade the People to take the Covenant, 
* Sermons about the Covenant, p. 64.  because Antichrist and his faction had prospered so much by entering into Covenants; therefore the People of God should try what this way will do, which hath been so advantageous to the enemy. For God, said he, may make use of that Stratagem to ruin their Kingdom, which they used to build it. But now if any of us say, that the same Persons have maintained a great reverence in the people to their Religion, by many Stately Ceremonies, splendid Vestures, and Pompous Rites, and therefore we may hope to keep the Ordinances of God from contempt by a few solemn and grave Ceremonies, by decent habits, and such rites and gestures as may beseem the dignity of our Religion; presently you raise an outcry against us, and the People are told, that we are Popishly affected, of an Antichristian spirit, and imitate Idolaters. For which I can assign no cause but this; that then the Argument was for you; and now it makes for us. And you are resolved to serve yourselves by all means, though it be by approving and anon rejecting the very same things.  
If a thing like you well, it shall go very hard but you will find some Scripture for it. And if none speak plainly, you will torture and draw some or other to be on your side, and labour to prove that they signify according to your meaning. But if a thing dislike you, than you ask for plain Scritprue. Nothing will satisfy, unless we show it you in express terms. It is Superstition, Will worship, any thing, but good, unless we produce a text in so, many words to confirm it. Of the same shifting humour was the late Army, as appears by their unparalleled Story, which in brief is this. On the 20. of April 1653. they turned their Masters, whom they had long served, out of doors, as a company of Self-Seekers, who minded their own private, more than the public Good. About six years after, finding the good Spirit declining, which formerly appeared among them, in carrying on the great work (those are their Canting expressions) and the good old Cause itself become a reproach: they were led to look back and examine the cause of the Lords withdrawing his wont presence from them. And among other things they remembered what Injuries they had done to the remnant of the long Parliament, and that they were eminent asserters of that Cause, and had a special presence of God with them, and were signally blessed in that Work. And therefore invited them by their Declaration of May 6. 1659. (in which you may find these things,) to come and sit again; promising to yield their uttermost Assistance for their sitting in safety. Would you not imagine now that they would for ever reverence these Eminent, these Blessed men? and that to oppose them in their great work, would be, in their opinion, to fight against God, to drive away the good Spirit, and to endeavour to destroy the Cause of God? And yet it was not long before they were of another mind. They held themselves, for all this, to be the greater Saints; the Army of the living God; and so immutably settled in his favour that they should not lose it, do they what they would. And therefore as soon as ever the Parliament refused to act according to their mind, they refused to yield their obedience. When they voted some of their Commissions void, and resolved to govern the Army by Commissioners in stead of a Lieutenant General; these late penitents could see nothing of God any longer among them: The special Presence of God vanished and in a moment disappeared. So that on the 13th. of the next October, they locked up the doors of the House, set themselves once more above their Masters; and in an insolent manner declared 
* Declara. agreed at Wallingford House, Octob. 27.  all their Orders, Acts, pretended Acts, or Declarations (and all proceed thereupon had or done) on Monday the 10. of that Month, and on Tuesday, and Wednesday following, null and void to all intents and purposes, in as full and ample a manner as if they had been never done. And immediately after, they pact the Men away after these Acts and Orders. Nay, this they did, notwithstanding that they had styled themselves several times, but five days before this 10. of October, Your faithful Servants the Army; and professed that having diligently inquired into their hearts and ways, 
Humble Represent and Petit. Octob. 5.  they found nothing among them but faithfulness and integrity to the Parliament; concluding their address in this manner that notwithstanding all endeavours to the contrary, they would by the help of God, be found faithful to them. Were not these gallant fellows? Wonderful constant to their Principles and Professions? Mightily overawed by the presence of God; Single-hearted, and faithful to their word? Yes, by all means, you must needs say; for of such as these a great part of the Churches of the Saints is now composed. And faithful they were to themselves; and that was enough. Constant to this principle, that they were always in the right; and what would you have more? They could Cant still in Scripture language, and therefore God was not withdrawn from them. They could fast and pray still, and had a power to turn even the Lordsday, into a day of Humiliation; and therefore the Good Spirit had not forsaken them. They hated Antichrist, that is us; and were resolved to burn the flesh of the Whore with fire, & so still remained the Army of the Lord of Hosts. For as if they had some such work in hand as the Apostles had, they call upon all the Godly in the nation to say on their behalf, who are sufficient for these things? and to cry aloud for them before the Throne of Grace, that the Lord himself would appear, and carry on his work in their hand. And great reason there was to expect it; since they had once more injured those, who asserted his cause; and done that very thing, for which (as they said,) he had before withdrawn his wont presence from them. O the Impudent foreheads of these Men! O the Sottishness of the People, that will be still cozened by such like Canters! Will you never open your eyes and see how vain their pretences to the Spirit are? Will you never be convinced of their presumptuous Boastings, and empty Confidence? Will you still believe that these men are highly illuminated, who call that darkness, which a little while ago was light; and then cross themselves again, and say no; it is but Darkness? Are these the men whom we must all follow; who run, we see, in an endless round of contradicting their own Professions? or must we shut our eyes, and give them our hand that they may lead us whither they please? Must we forget all that is past, and believe they are now possessed with an infallible Spirit? This is the thing no doubt, they desire. We must resign our belief to their Declarations. We must allow all their Reasons and Excuses, whatsoever they be, We must, at least, suffer them to justify themselves by those very things which they formerly condemned; and say ne'er a word. And then we love them; then we favour the people of God; then they have some hopes of us; and it's possible God may have mercy on us, though we be out of the way and do not follow them.  
I know you will say, that such as you, are none of the Army-Saints: that you condemn their Practices, and hate their lewd pretences to Religion as a great scandal to it: All which I verily believe. But, let me tell you, the Army had a copy set them of unconstancy and double dealing by those men whom you admired. For there was a time when the Lords and Commons could see some good in the Liturgy and Government of the Church by Law established. Nay more than that; they made a Declaration 
* April 9 1642. , caused it to be printed and published in all Market Towns, That they would take away nothing in the one or the other, but what should be evil and justly offensive, or at least unnecessary and burdensome. And yet when they had more power, they were of another mind. Every thing was offensive, at least unnecessary and burdensome; nothing would serve but taking away all the Common-Prayer; and plucking up Episcopacy by the very roots. The reason, I suppose, was, because this became as necessary to promote their Designs in process of time; as that Declaration was at the beginning. If they had rested there, and gone no farther, they had lost the hearts of the most spiritual; who would never have seen such a glorious anointing upon them from the Lord, 
Beam of Light by Ch. Feak.  as now appeared. Now they very fifth kingdom men, could not but see it, and acknowledge it in Print: though it was not long before they also changed like all the rest; and had lost the sight of this glory, being able to spy no Unction any where but upon themselves. For they helped to profane the Crown of these anointed ones, and cast out the greatest part of them, as if they were but scum and filth. But I think it's best to trace your wind and turn not further; for fear they lead us too far out of the way.  N. C. 
A good Resolution. Too much of one thing you know is good for nothing.  C. 
True. And I think the first thing I said about your pretences of a tacit Indulgence, is sufficient to show, that you are perfectly like men in danger of drowning, who catch hold indifferently of what comes next to hand; be it a naked Sword or an hot Iron.  N. C. 
Pray make an end of this: for you have quite tired me with your Discourse. In which you have largely proved the truth of the common talk, that you are of a barsh, nay a bitter and jeering Spirit, and was in a choleric mood when you wrote your Book.  C. 
Rather, they that say so, prove what I have been saying all this time that they blow hot and cold out of the same mouth; and condemn that in others which they allow, nay, praise in themselves. For you shall hear them call that Salt and Smartness of wit in one whom they love; which is Bitterness and jeering in him whom they hate. And that passes for innocent Mirth and Pleasantness in one of their party; which is Levity and Frothiness in one of ours. Nay, it is Zeal for God and his cause if you aggravate the faults of other men, or rashly charge and bring even a false Accusation against your Betters: but it is malignity of Spirit, hatred of God and the power of Godliness, if we do but tell a plain and true story of your miscarriages. No man ever opposed you resolutely, but you said he railed. No man discovered your Partiality and other vices; but you complained of his Bitterness, and said he was in a rage against you. If by this you meant nothing else, but that I writ with some heat and earnestness, I would confess it, and say it is not to be condemned. For who can contend coldly and without affection about those things which he holds dear and precious? A Politic person indeed may write from his brain (as my Lord Bacon I think observes) without any touch or sense on his heart; as in a speculation that pertains not to him: But a Feeling Christian will express in his words a Character, either of Zeal or Love; which you know are warm Passions. For my part, I think I have expressed both, but nothing at all of wrath and bitterness. And therefore, as to that censure which your Friends pass on me, I believe he will speak a great deal truer, that affirms the Authors of it were full of choler themselves. Otherways, they could not but have discerned a charitable spirit in my writing, and easily seen, that the Indignation I expressed against some vices, is such as consists with Christian Meekness, and ought not to be condemned as an unmanly Passion. Do you not find that Moses was very wroth, when Israel committed a great sin? and yet his Meekness is commended above all other men's. And what think you of St. Paul when he calls the Galatians a foolish sort of people: and plainly tells the Corinthians that he could as well use a Rod, as the Spirit of Meekness: and bids Titus, whom a little before he warned against rash anger, to rebuke some persons sharply? Nay what think you of our Saviour himself? was not he angry at the hardness of the Jews heart? Mark. 3.5. Was he in any fault when he said to his Disciples, O fools and slow of heart to believe? Undoubtedly I may sincerely and hearty love you when I express a just Indignation against you; and you may as hearty hate me, when you seem very gentle and kindly affected toward me. It is possible you may have met with this saying out of St. Austin, which is ordinarily cited by our Writers, and worth your consideration. It is so far from being true, that every one that is angry with others bats them; that sometimes he who is not angry, is thereby convinced of bearing the greatest hatred to them. And this also. I am not to account every one my Friend that spares and forbears me; nor every one my enemy that severely corrects and lashes me. Besides; there are some of such a nature, that nothing but sharp dealing will do them good. They are like knotty Blocks, which require more Wedges, and harder blows also to drive them home. If he that undertakes (saith Dr. Corn. Burges 
* Fire of the Sanct. uncovered. , once famous among you) shall dally, and not strike home with all his might, he shall find the Wedge about his shins.  
They will rage's the more confidently when they see he favours them: They will think he fears and stands in awe of them, and so fly in his face with the greater fury. I have never found any thing truer than this; that to speak some men fair, is but to make them have a better opinion of themselves. They never thank you for your gentle and tender usage; for they imagine their Merit extorts it from you. Whatsoever Favour you show them, it is not imputed to your kindness, but their own deservings: and they perk up the higher in their own Conceit, because you have such regard to them. That they may know themselves therefore; they must not be stroaked, but smitten; you must not gently jog, but roughly shake them; if you intent to awaken them. If you would not have them soothe themselves up in their sins; you must openly detect and discover them. If you would have them see the greatness of their Offences, you must boldly reprove them, and tear in pieces all their pretences and excuses whereby they seek to hid them. And as long as you are truly charitable, and allow all that is good in them; they may see, if they be not perfectly blinded with a too fond Love of themselves, that you are a Friend to them, though an enemy to their vices. For (to use the words of a famous Writer) as the coldest and fiercest winds are observed to grow mild and gentle by passing through temperate Regions, so do severe & sharp Reproofs partake of the nature of him that gives them, and lose part of their Austerity when they are managed with Prudence and charity.  
It is a very good Old saying, Love thy Neighbour, yet pull not down thy hedge. We will be kind to you, but yet make you to know your Bounds. We will not suffer you to engross to your party, the name and reputation of Godliness. You shall not pass for the only nice and tender Conscienced men, nor be thought more Conscientious than you are. Nor will we suffer you if we can help it, to pull down the Fence that is about our Church; those wise and wholesome Laws that are made for its Safety and Security. Too much civility to you, doth but make you presumptuous. You only take Occasion to grow more bold and licentious; if in some things we commend your strictness, but wink at your faults. And therefore we must tell you your own (as we commonly speak) and let the deluded people know, how Ignorant, how Superstitious, how Defective you are in a great number of Christian duties; whilst you imagine yourselves the most knowing the most holy people in the world. If you be angry at this and call it bitterness, it is no more than I expected from many of you. For a galled horse, I know, loves not to be curried, and a guilty conscience loves not to bereproved. Let us go about the one or the other with never so much caution, they will be sure to winch. Though the necessity be great and our charity much, it is all one; they have no mind to be touched. Now how necessary and seasonable those Instructions were that I gave you, I leave others to judge who are impartial. And as for the manner of delivering them; show me any thing in my Book that bites, but only Truth; and I will knock out its teeth: Which if you think I have sharpened too much; I assure you, it was only to give you a quicker sense of your Errors. All the Salt you may fancy in it, was intended only to season you, but not to fret you at all.  N. C. 
You can make smooth and handsome Apologies for any thing. But study as long as you will to blanche the the matter, they will believe your tooth is black: and that your voice indeed may be the voice of Jacob, but your hands the hands of Esau: as hairy and rough as a Satire.  C. 
You are marvellously witty. And as I have heard you commend a sanctified wit, so it seems there is a sanctified scurrility; and one of you may rail with good Approbation, provided he do it in Scripture phrases.  N. C. 
What ails you to talk in this Fashion? Have I given you any occasion?  C. 
Since you will not be satisfied, but still complain of bitterness and Reproaches; It is fit to let you know, that you of all other men should not speak a word of this; which you have been so notoriously guilty of yourselves. You are perfectly like the Friar, who declaimed against Stealing, when he had a pudding in his sleeve—  N. C. 
Good Sir, say no more; For I see the more we stir in this business, the worse it will be.  C. 
You speak modestly: But let the issue be what it will, you shall give me leave, now we have begun; to spread before you some of the Dung that you have thrown in our Faces. And I shall the rather undertake it, because it will serve another purpose. For it will plainly demonstrate where your people learned all their reviling Language; and that your Ministers have been so far from reproving them for it, that in truth they taught them how to blaspheme, and put those very words into their mouths, which now they belch out against us.  N. C. 
I had rather believe you upon your word, than be troubled with such stuff.  C. 
No, I will not be so much beholden to you. But since you are so good natured, you shall not be troubled with much of it. Let me only entreat you to peruse two or three of your Authors. First, there is a Book entitled A looking glass for Malignants, writ by one of your ancient Ministers, Mr. Vicars; the famous Author of your Parliamentary Chronicle, called, God in the Mount, In which he treats our Clergy and people with the wont civilities, that your rude People now bestow upon us. He gins with the Archb. of Canterbury, whom he calls a Cursed cow, dr rather a raging fat Bull of Bashan: whose heart, he saith, was more hard and Adamantine than a nether Millstone, and most extremely cauterised, yea stigmatised with the hottest Iron of most desperate Impenitency. And having thus expressed his respects and charity to him; then he greets our inferior Ministers by the name of Baal-Priests, Popish sons of Belial: and makes it an admirable piece of Divine Providence, that the Soldiers who went against Scotland (before our Wars) should have their heart's overruled by God, and their Spirits ordered to plunder and terrify those scandalous Baal-Priests. As for the People that followed the King, he calls them Marblehearted Malignants, implacable and inveterate haters of Holiness; that were for mere formal Protest antism at large, which is in effect down right Atheism. This excellent Treatise was licenced by Mr. John White who was himself such another Reviler; and called our Ministers by the same names; nay far worse: not only Priests of Baal, but of Bacchus and Priapus. And though you may imagine he speaks only of those particular men whom he put into his Centuries, He will inform you otherwise if you look into his Epistle before the first of them. Which he put forth, as he tells us, for this end that the World might see what manner of persons our Clergy be. As if there was no difference; but the People were to judge of all the rest, by those stories which were told of some. And truly, so they did, and so they do to this day.  N. C. 
I never observed these things. But you must consider that this Vicars was old, and so might be testy: For no man well advised sure would approve of that disorderly action of the Soldiers, much less make God the Author of it.  
C. I remember indeed Mr. Burroughs 
* Vindic. against Mr. Edw. Gang.  wonders that so old a Professor of Religion as he should be found jeering and scorning at it, (for he cast some reproaches on his way) and can find no excuse for it, but the infirmities that sometime attend an old Age. But as for that action of the rude Soldiers, I remember very well, it is applauded by M. Case in a Book licenced by the same Mr. White June 27. 1642. called Gods waiting to be gracious, etc. Where he makes this one of their Encouragements to expect the fall of Babylon, because God had so wonderfully wrought upon the Spirits of men, particularly on those soldiers, who went, he saith, to fight the Bishop's battles in Scotland; that they pulled down the Rails, Threatened the Priests, and kept such a Visitation in their progress, as the Bishops hardly ever had done since Queen Elizabeth's days. This he saith, p. 119. was the Finger of God, the work of him that created the Spirit of man.  N. C. 
You tell me News.  C. 
It's very stolen. But no news at all to us who are well acquainted with their pitiful way of arguing. And I hearty wish your Ministers would seriously consider, upon this occasion, these two things. First, how wretchedly they were wont to reason, and how they abused the poor people by encouraging them to draw the greatest hopes from the slightest grounds. For what Connexion is there between these two things? The disorderly Soldiers were uncivil to our Ministers, and profaned our Churches as they went into the North, therefore the fall of Babylon is near at hand? It is just like the reasoning of Mr. Henderson who told the Parliament that the Fast which they kept on Saint John's day 
* Sermon on 27. Decem. 1643.  was a presage that by the blessing of God on theirs and the Assemblies proceed, the Superstition of observing Christmas should shortly expire, and that it was at its last gasp. As if one should say, there was a solemn Fast indicted (as they speak) in the Church of Scotland on the second Lord's day in Sep. 1642. for the promoting Unity in Religion, and Uniformity in Government: 
* Direct. anent Malignants by the Commis. of Gen. Ass.  and the Officers of the Army at Wallingford house turned that Festival again into a day of Humiliation: therefore that solemn remembrance of Christ's Resurrection shall shortly cease, and Christianity fall to the ground.  N. C. 
I am ashamed of the incoherence of such Discourses.  C. 
So should they be too, and do public penance for it. As also for their gross hypocrisy and partiality in assuming a power to themselves, less than which they condemn in other men. For they may turn it seems a Festival of our Lords appointing into a Fast; but we may not make a Festival in honour of him. I would desire them also to consider in the second place, whether their Connivance at, nay, their Approbation of such things as were done without any Authority; I may add, their praising the blind zeal of private men who took upon them to be Reformers; and, more than that, their imputing it to the work of the Spirit and the mighty power of God; did not help to embolden the Army afterward to do those things which they themselves abhorred; with a persuasion that they were moved by the Spirit, and had a call from the Lord, though no Authority from men? It is a thing much to be laid to heart, and then honestly to be confessed; and publicly bewailed. And when we see them so humble and sincere as to take shame to themselves for what they have done; we shall all have the better opinion of them.  N. C. 
I hope these speeches may be imputed to the rashness of a few men; at least they were not approved by any Authority.  C. 
Think you so? How came Mr. wilson's Sermon then before the Parliament to be printed by their Order, 28. Sept. 1642. In which he calls the Clergy about the King, Croaking Frogs that crept into King's Chambers: Who are known by the gutter (there he thought lay a jest) whence they come; out of the mouth of the Dragon, out of the mouth of the Beast and the false Prophet. They are the spirits of Devils which go forth unto the Kings of the Earth to gather them to battle, etc. The Frogs head is like their Caps [Quadrata ranarum Capita] Here is work for the Parliament, that the king may have no more Croakers in his Chambers.  
And here (I may add,) is a taste of your sanctified wit, or rather, devout Railing; though borrowed, alas! in great part from Paraus on the Revelation.  N. C. 
You take things in the worse part, when you hear or read our Sermons.  C. 
You would have said, perhaps, if you had read Mr. Vicars, that to the hearing of the Word there came as well ears of Scorn as ears of Corn. For sure you could not but have remembered such an admirable piece of wit as this, which you may find in his Epistle to the Reader.  N. C. 
We do not regard Wit, nor pretend to it.  C. 
It is not because you do not love it. For according to the Proverb; John would wipe his Nose if he had it.  N. C. 
There is wit in picking a lock; but it is better to let it alone. And therefore I will not vie Proverbs with you.  C. 
You are just like the Gentlemen we are speaking of, who do things and know it not: nay then do them, when they say they will not. Mr. W. Bridges for instance, reproves the Loyal Convert for ill language, and tells him be seems in vain to be Religious if he refrain not his tongue: when as he himself had, just before, let his tongue lose in a most riotous manner against us; Telling him that the Cathedrals were a Nest and Cage of all unclean Birds, a harbour of dumb Dogs, proud prebend's, and a crew of Ale-swilling Singing men: And that they came daily to offer near the Holy Table, the blind Whelps of an Ignorant Devotion; of which one may say, as the Apostle, the things which the Heathen offer in Sacrifice to their Idols, they offer them to Devils and not to God. Nay, as if his tongue was set on fire of Hell and could not be tamed, immediately after he had given that caution out of St. James, he falls into a rage again; and in a most nasty manner compares our Prelates to Swine lying in their Ordure. For he saith the Hogsty-Prelatical had been swept but twice since the Conquest, and the Temple of Jerusalem three times in the 3. years of our Saviour's Ministry. What office he designed himself in this sweet work I cannot tell; nor how you will excuse this savoury language; unless it be sufficient to say, that he railed by Public Authority.  N. C. 
I abominate such Reformers: and think they deserved to keep Hogs, rather than feed the Sheep of Christ.  C. 
I am glad to hear you say so: And hope you as much abhor Mr. Hugh's his Reproaches, who says, the Common-Prayer may be likened fitly to the abomination of Desolation standing in the holy place.  N. C. 
By what you told me before, I could expect no better from him; whom I think worthy to have been preferred to the same office with the other.  C. 
But you would expect better language, would you not? from two such Holy men as Mr. Allin, and Mr. Shepherd, the famous New-England Preachers?  N. C. 
They sure were more Conscientious than to utter any foul speeches.  C. 
Yet they tell you, the English Service-Book hath stunk above ground twice 40. year, in the nostrils of the godly, who breathed in the pure air of Scripture. Defence of the 9 positions. p. 61.  N. C. 
No more of this Noisome language, I beseech you: which is enough to poison the Air we breath in.  C. 
As it hath done already: and so diffused its venom among your people, that they are generally infected with this Plague. Nay, they not only do such things themselves, but take pleasure in them that do them. Witness all the filthy reproaches they bestow upon our Divine Service, Clergy, and People: and the great satisfaction and applause wherewith the late Cobbler of Glocesters writings were entertained, even by those whom you esteem Religious. This shows what manner of spirit you are of, and that your people are in danger to deprive themselves of all sense of true Religion: to pave their own hearts, and make them like the highway; through which all things may pass without any difference (save only a few innocent Ceremonies) even whole Cart-loads of dung and filth. And of the very same spirit, I must tell you, this sort of Religious people have ever been. For Martin Marprelate, with whose Devil this man was possessed; was received with the like Applause, and his Writings so thumbed, that they were even worn out, with continual reading and handling of them. If you will not believe me; yet I hope you will trust Mr. Brightman whose words these are; as you may see if you look into his Comments on the 3. Rev. 17. p. 49. of the English Edit. where speaking of the Nakedness of Laodicea (i e. in his opinion, the Church of England) he makes this an Argument of it, that this man had poured such great contempt and shameful reproach upon it, which is the meaning of her being Naked. There was one, saith he, that called himself by the name of Mar-prelate, who set forth a Book wherein he dealt somewhat roundly with the Angel. How were those bitter jests of his favoured among the People? How plausible were they in a manner to all men? How willingly and greedily; with what great mirth were they every where entertained? There is none so rude and unskilful but pondering that time in his mind, would say thus to himself, and that not without cause; Truly, the Lord hath poured out contempt upon Princes; those that honour him doth he honour, and those that despise him, shall be despised. He hath made our Priests contemptible to the whole People, because they have broken their Covenant. You may read what follows there if you think good: For it is a great Demonstration, how well those people were instructed in the Christian Religion; and what rare devises you have been taught to blind your eyes that you may not see your sins. For you may speak evil; and rejoice in iniquity; and sport yourselves in beholding your Father's Nakedness; and fancy all the time that you are fulfilling Prophecies, executing the judgement written; and pouring out Vials, like so many Angels.  N. C. 
I should think rather this was the Devil with his followers fight against Michael and his Angels.  C. 
And a Devil it was, whom when you had once raised, you could never conjure down again; nor with all your Prayers and Fast dispossess him. Nay, this foul Spirit grew in time so outrageous that he flew at last in a foaming manner in your own face. Which is a thing so remarkable, that I cannot but put you in mind of it: how you were served in your kind; and felt the tongues of men sharpened against yourselves, which you had whetted to wound the reputation of others. No sooner had you pulled down the Bishops, whom you had laid low before by such fellows as that Martin-Mar-prelate: but out comes Martin's Echo which returned all those Reproaches upon Presbytery. Baal, Babylon, Egypt, and all the rest of those Heathenish names were pressed to war against you, which you had made to serve against us. Presbytery was called a Limb of Antichrist: a tyrannical Lordly Government; a worse bondage than that under the Bishops; a bondage under Taskmasters, like those over Israel in Egypt. Nay that Very Mouth which reviled our Church, now reviled your intended Reformation. Mr. Burton himself, whom your people had so much admired, and brought home with such joy and triumph, that you fancied (as I shall tell you before we have done) that day to be the Resurrection of the Witnesses; bestowed those censures on Presbyterial Government: which he said 
* Dialogue called Conformity, Deformity.  would bring us under perpetual slavery, worse than either Egypt or Babylon.  
And in the very same terms wherein you had railed against our Priests, we heard the Sectaries railing against your Presbyters: whom they called Romish bloody Priests, Black Coats, Diviners and Soothsayers; Croaking Frogs; the Devils Agents; Pensioners to the accuser of the Brethren. Nay, the Assembly itself we were told had two horns like a Lamb, but a mouth like a Dragon, teaching the Parliament to speak blasphemy against the Saints that dwell in Heaven. Your Uniformity also was as much disgraced as ours, and styled the Burden of the Saints, the bondage of the Church, the straightening of the Spirit, the limiting of Christ; 
Edw. Gangr. 1 part. p. 212.  and the eclipsing of the glory of the Father. Nay it is pretty to observe, how the very Mystery of Iniquity, you had so long complained on, was now found working among you. Uniformity, Mr. Saltmarsh said, was a piece of it. And Mr. del (in his Epistle before his Sermon of Right Reformation, preached before the Parliament) calls Presbytery, a new form of that mystery of iniquity, which had been so long a working. The Beast, they held, had only changed its shape, and taken another name, and so they baited it most fiercely as you had taught them: And told you in effect, what the Proverb says, that Goose, and Gander, and Gosling, are three sounds, but one thing. But they would not part with you thus; for after they had done with this, than they fell upon your darling, the Solemn League and Covenant. This became a brand of infamy, a cain's mark almost (as Mr. Case tells us 
* Thanksg. Serm. for taking of Chester. p. 26. ) so that if they would stigmatize a man to purpose, they would say, He? He is a Covenanter. As you had told us that we made an Idol of the Common-Prayer; so Mr. Peter told you publicly in a Sermon at the three Cranes, that you kept such a stir about the Covenant, as if you would have the people make an Idol of it. Mr. Feak also called it, the great Idol of the two Kingdoms. And so fit had this word been found to do service that at last one told us, that you had got two Idols for on one. For the Parliament and the Pulpit, said an 
* Letter to Card. Barber.  Outlandish Gentleman (imitating the language of the times,) are the two great Idols of the people, the greatest that ever were. For it's held a kind of blasphemy to speak against the one; and the whole Body of Religion is nailed to the other. It comes to my mind also, how you who joined in the outcries against Malignants, were numbered in conclusion, among them, and said to be grown indeed to a more refined Malignancy; but that there was no greater difference between a Presbyter and a Prelate, than between a half Crown piece, and two shillings and six pence. And as your good friend Mr. Vicars had told us, that God had made us to be the very drudges and Scul-boyes of his Church and children. So Mr. Peter in good time told you (in a Pamphlet of his) that the Presbyterians were no better than Gibeonites, who might help to hue stone and square Timber for a more glorious building.  N. C. 
Will you never have done?  C. 
You must let me remember you what a mighty clamour you raised against the Bishops, as if they had been so many ishmael's that persecuted Gods isaac's: and you have not forgot sure how oft you were called yourselves, the Carnal seed, the fleshly children; the persecuters of the children of the free woman. For your Ministers that accused the Bishops (and made it a main part of their Remonstrance to the house of Commons in the beginning of the Wars) that they had put some who were but Servingmen into Orders, and made them Ministers: saw in a little time a whole swarm of vile creatures (nothing so good as Servingmen) making themselves Ministers, and setting up for the most Gospel-preachers. And there was no remedy: but all their preaching and printing, and petitioning against it was despised. These taught the people to call them blind Guides, as they had taught them to call our Priests. Nay, their Masters at last encouraged and rewarded the scoffs of those that said, These blind Guides travailing as they thought to Zion, are fallen into the ditch in the Isle of Wight. Insatiable hirelings, Gehazi's, cheaters, pulpited Divines, and a great lurry of such like names were liberally dealt to them; as you may see, if you will not believe me, in their own complaint, called A Seasonable Exhortation, p. 11. Nay, the Army itself which had been so instrumental in all this wickedness, and magnified by these revilers as the Army of the Lamb; at last heard themselves called, the Abomination of Desolation. All which I mention only for this end: to show what your Ministers got by instructing the people in this easy Art of disgracing all they disliked, with the names of Antichristian, Babylonish and such like. As they had done, so they were requited. And while the Episcopal Clergy silently bore the punishment of their sins; they that had cast out their names as abominable, were whipped with their own rods. When they thought to reign as kings without us; immediately they were assaulted as Egyptian Tyrants: when they expected all should bow to the Sceptre of Christ in their hand, they saw men rising up against them as Antichristian. Those that had heard their Invectives against us, employed them against themselves. And all the Dung they had laid at our doors, was fling by those that had been their followers, in their own faces. If I were endued with the Spirit of Mr. Vicars, or Mr. Case, I should have said upon this occasion. Behold the finger of God the Work of him that created the Spirit of man! See how the Lord overruled men's hearts; and ordered their Spirits to terrify these Presbyters. Or Mr. Brightman would have taught me to say, The Lord hath made your Priests contemptible to the whole people, because they have broken their Covenant. But I dare not imitate their boldness, nor talk as if I was infallible. I will let them enjoy this particular gift to themselves, of knowing what God doth upon the spirits of men. For my part, I think they might be able to say all this, even without any extraordinary help of the Devil. There was no need that Beelzebub should come to inspire them with this fury: For they were already possessed with a mighty Rage. That Spirit which spoke out of the Press and Pulpit, had abundantly furnished them with this powerful and taking Rhetoric. And if Mr. Brightman had lived to that day; he would have wondered to see, how near of kin his Heat was to this Fire. Nay, he would have been ashamed of his rare way of reasoning against our Church, when he had heard some retort his words against us, upon the Philadelphians (I mean Disciplinarians) saying; Truly, the Lord hath poured contempt upon Princes: Those that honour him, doth he honour; and those that despise him shall be despised.  
And thus I have at last opened this rotten Ulcer (I hope you will not be angry if I use his words 
* In 3. Rev. 17. latter end. ) If my labour shall be acceptable, and the sore being purged, be healed again; how great thanks shall I return to God? But if the evil shall be only stirred up, and the handling of it shall offend the sick and sore parties; I will yet comfort myself with the conscience of the good discharge of my Duty, and with the ordinary reward of a Physician.  N. C. 
Discharge of your duty? you should say disgorging your Choler and Gall. Nay, they will never believe if they hear what you now Discourse; but that you wrote out of mere malice, on purpose to disgrace them; and that you deserve the reward of such Physicians as kill more than they cure.  C. 
How came they by this faculty of searching the heart?  N.C. 
How came you to ask this question?  C. 
I forgot myself. Since they can see what God doth in the Spirits of men; no wonder they can spy our thoughts and intentions.  N.C. 
I meant, that they can see by your Book what your intentions were.  C. 
So they may. For I told them plainly in my preface that I intended only to awaken them to see their Errors, but it seems their Spirit looked into mine when I wrote those words, and could see my thoughts better than myself. Hath W. B. or his disciples had some Revelation about this matter?  N.C. 
None but what they received from your Book, which contradicts they think, your Epistle, and declares the hatred you bear to them.  C. 
To their Schismatical spirit you should have said. For I can sincerely profess, as Mr. Edward's doth in another case, That I have no personal quarrel with any of them, no old grudge, or former difference; and therefore had not Truth constrained me, 
Pref. to Antapolog.  I had out of respect, and love to some of them, forborn to say any thing of these matters. And therefore let not my Book by reason of its truth and plainness be branded for a bitter, railing and malicious Writing: But let them consider that they need such a Book as doth not flatter and extol them, but be plain and free with them. For the truth is (as he goes on) they have been too much flattered, both in their Persons and Churches; and are undone for want of being plainly and freely dealt withal. A Candle hath been too long held to them; I hope my Book may do them much good, to abate their swelling and confidence. And if many of our Ministers would deal more plainly with them, it would be better both for them and us. I remember a passage concerning Luther in an Epistle of Calvin's to Melancthon (they are still the same man's words) which the persons being changed, may be fitly applied to my purpose. If there were that mind in us all, that aught to be; perhaps some remedy might be found. And certainly we transmit an unworthy Example to posterity, while we cast away all liberty, rather than offend a few men: Will not their vehemency rise and grow the more, while all bear with them, and suffer all things from them? Undoubtedly it will. Our base silence doth but make them open their mouths wider to declaim against us. We cherish their insolent behaviour while we make no Opposition and give no check to their violence. They imagine we allow them to be so worthy as they fancy themselves, while we sit still, and only see and hear their Folly. And therefore to show that we know them, not that we hate them, I took the Freedom to write those things which you accuse of Malice.  N.C. 
But, as I told you, they tend to their Disgrace.  C. 
No man ought to think himself disgraced by Truth, nor reproached by just Reproof. He should rather think he dishonours himself, a thousand times more, by still persisting in his Errors, and justifying his faults. And if you resolve upon this Course, and seek rather to cast reproaches on us than amend yourselves; I doubt not it will turn at last to your greater disgrace, and make you more vile in the esteem of all indifferent men.  N.C. 
Assure yourself you had better have been otherwise employed, and never have meddled in this business.  C. 
I am not afraid of any evil Tongue, nor of any thing else that man can do unto me: But, as your Mr. Cartwright once said, am of Alcibiades his mind; who trusting to the power of Truth, when one lift up his staff ready to smite him if he would not hold his peace, boldly replied, Smite me, so thou wilt but hear me.  N.C. 
No, they will not smite, but they will defend themselves.  C. 
With all my heart. But be you assured, as he said, in another case, their heels will sooner ache with kicking against the prick, than it suffer any hurt, by receiving their broken and strengthless Resistance.  N.C. 
You are very warm, and confident.  C. 
To tell you the very truth I have long observed in the fiery men that oppose our Church, a strange Pride and conceit of the godliness of their own party beyond all reason; together with a most shameful despisal of us, as if our Piety were little or none at all. This moved my Indignation, and it will stir, I think, the spirit of any honest and cordial Christian, to read such haughty Censures as these from the mouth of your most famous Divines. That the Bishops are a generation of the Earth, earthly; 
Preface to the Diocese. Trial. An. 1621.  and savour not the things of God. They are the words of Mr. Paul Bains, approved by no less man than Dr. Ames, who is pleased to add in his great modesty, that there was as much agreement between them in their management of Religion (except two or three) and their powerful Preachers, as between the light which comes down from Heaven, and that thick mist which arises from the lowest pit. And that there is more of God and his Religion in some one congregation of a silenced Minister, than in all the Bishop's families in England. I appeal to all the world whether I had not reason to stomach these proud vaunts, and scornful speeches. And whether it was not absolutely necessary to let you see the emptiness & flatness (to say no worse) of those men who now insult over us in like manner; and would bear the world in hand that they are the only powerful Preachers, who alone savour the things of God.  N.D. 
You have only culled a few say out of one or two Books—  C. 
They should have thanked me for that. And might have seen if they pleased, by that moderation, that I was not desirous to publish their shame more than needs: but studied their amendment by disclosing a little of their folly and concealing the rest. If they will not believe but that I did my worst, and revealed all I knew; let them but signify this distrust of my Charity, and I shall give them abundant satisfaction. Mr. T. W. I am sure hath no cause to complain, who with so much labour brings forth childish fancies, and is so curious to speak absurdly, and takes so much care to avoid serious and solid sense in the most weighty Arguments, that his great Pains is conspicuous in these Defects. Of this I did but give a small taste, and that, not out of the worst of his conceits; which he ought to look upon as the Civility of a Friend, and not as the want of skill in an enemy. As for Mr. W. B. I confess ingenuously, I said a little the more of him, because you have been too long gulled by such pretenders to Mysteries and Spirituality. Yet I do not think I said enough, but aught to have told you plainly, that he is one of the principal Impostors that have perverted the Truth as it is in Jesus, and adulterated the Christian Religion in this Nation. He spoils almost all the Holy Scripture he meddles withal; and turns it into an idle tale of these times, and makes it say whatsoever it pleases him and his Proselytes to hear. Which when I seriously consider, I cannot but say with a little alteration as one doth, on another occasion, to his Countrymen. That it is a shame there are laws against those who counterfeit Coins, and falsify Merchandizes; yet such are permitted who Sophisticate our Divinity, and corrupt the Holy Scriptures, and turn our Religion into a new fancy and device of their own. The late great Plague is but of small consideration in compare with this mischief; and if speedy order be not taken, the multiplying of such Authors will make a Library as big as London, wherein there shall scarcely be found one wise Sentence, or reasonable Conceit.  N.C. 
It's thought Sir by some that you are much mistaken in making him the Author of that Book which you reprove, since it bears only the two first Letters of Mr. Bridge his name. And I have heard you blamed for charging him with those things which he hath not owned.  C. 
I think rather those Apologists are mistaken. For why doth he not disown it, if it be not his Book; since it contains such dangerous things? Or why did not the Preface to another Book, since stolen into the world and carrying his name in the front of it, inform us that this was genuine, and the other Spurious? But if he had, there are very few that would have believed him. For they are as like each other, as two pieces of Cloth, that are of the same Wool, the same thread, the same colour, working and breadth. There is the very same Canting in both; the same abuse of Holy Scripture, the same Spiritual pride and contempt of others, the same evil speaking and seditious Doctrines; and in one word, the way and Spirit of Mr. Bridge.  N.C. 
Why do you jeer? I know you allude to the Title of one of those Ten Sermons, which he calls, The Way and Spirit of the New Testament.  C. 
I do so: And am better able to describe his Way and Spirit than he to set out that.  N.C. 
I think you had better forbear such Comparisons.  C. 
Pray let me try a little. It will both divert us a while, and not prove unprofitable. Turn I pray you to the fifth Sermon, at your leisure; and tell me when you have compared our Conceits, 
P. 371. etc.  whether of us do better.  
First, I say, the way and Spirit of Mr. Bridge, is not (as he would have it) a Childlike, but a Childish Spirit. A way and Spirit that hath nothing manly; nothing of the ancient Christian sense and Spirit in it: but abounds with Phrases, trifling observations, and perpetual Tautologies: And yet thinks itself most gorgeously bedecked with Gospel Truths, Dispensations, Manifestations, Discoveries, and I know not how many other glorious things besides.  
Secondly, it is not a fearing, but a fearless Spirit; daring to talk of God & our Saviour in the boldestand rudest terms, taking a kind of Pride in inventing new and monstrous Expressions; and spiritualizing Religion into airy fancies.  
Thirdly, The way and Spirit of Mr. B. is not an understanding, but a Nonsensical Spirit. An instance of which is this, that it hath no certain rule whereby to measure the love of God. But sometimes it made successes a great argument of God's regard to them; and now it tells us that the Crosses are a mark of it, and that the Children of God must be persecuted by the World.  
Fourthly, The way and Spirit of Mr. B. is to trade much, or most, or altogether with fancies and Dreams.  N.C. 
Pray do not say so.  C. 
You may put it in other words if you please, and say it trade's with absolute Promises. But that's the same; for they are no better than dreams and fancies.  
Fifthly, In the old time men examined and considered what they believed; and came to Faith by rational discourse; But now in the days of Mr. B. Men are taught to believe they know not why, and Reason is decried as an enmity to the things of God.  
Sixthly, In the old times Christians were of a modest and humble Spirit; but the way of Mr. B. is to teach them to be high and confident; and to imagine great Discoveries and Revelations to be made to them. And therefore they wronged Mr. Edward's very much, when they said his Gangraena was full of lies, because he told strange stories of men that pretended to have had Revelations, and seen Visions: for we find Mr. B. is one of them.  
Seventhly, In the old time Humility, Purity, Righteousness and Charity were held to be things most dear to God; but now in the way and Spirit of Mr. B. we can hear no tidings of them. For he can tell us but of three things that are dear to him, His People, his Truth, and his Worship. These are his Plate, his fuels, his Treasure, as I told you the last time out of one of his Ten Serm. But you must know it is not a new discovery, but an old and darling Notion of his; which I find in his Sermon before the Parliament, 29. Nou. 1643. There he tells us, Three things God loves more specially; His People, his Truth, and his worship. And it is a beloved conceit I perceive among the party; for one of his Brethren delivered it to the Parliament before him, & told them in a peremptory manner, excluding all other things, 
Mr. Tho. goodwin's serm. of Apr. 27. 1642. p. 31.  God hath but three things dear to him in the World; the Saints, his Worship, and his Truth. But which of these he loves best he could not tell; for God therefore ordained Saints to be in the World that he might be Worshipped; and appointed Ordinances of Worship, as means to build up his Saints. Some honest old Christian would have told this great Divine if he had heard him; you trouble yourself, Sir, about needless Questions: There is something God loves better than all these, viz. Holiness, & all Moral virtue. For in truth there are no Saints or people of God (but only in name) without these. Take away these, and the most Orthodox Notions that can be in your head, will make you no better than a Devil. Nor will the exactest worship, according to the purest Ordinances, fail to be an Abomination to the Lord, if these be absent. But I forget myself. The way and Spirit of Mr. B. is not to talk of any thing else, but pure Worship, pure Ordinances, Gospel Administrations, and such like matters; upon the account of which they esteem themselves more holy, Spiritual and Evangelical than other men. And be they never so bad; all's one for that. Mr. B. hath a rule which is very comfortable; 
* Sinfuln. of Sin. p. 34.  Humble yourselves for sin though it be never so small; but do not question your condition for any sin, though it be never so great. Perhaps you will say, I do not understand him: and truly that's no such great wonder: For, Eighthly, Whereas in the old time men wrote and spoke so, that one might understand what they meant; the way and Spirit of Mr. B. is quite contrary, which is to speak that which he himself, I believe, doth not understand. Witness several things I could show you in his First of the Ten Sermons, concerning Love to Christ's personal excellencies, without respect to his benefits.  
Besides this, Ninthly, In old time they gave good proof for what they said; but the way and Spirit of Mr. B. is, to put us off with a lousy Similitude or two; by which he doth all his feats.  N. C. 
Why do you speak in this manner?  C. 
I have good reason for that Epithet, but now it is time to make an end. And to say no more but this, in the old time the way was to demonstrate things either from their Causes, or from their Effects, or from Testimony, according as the matter would bear: but now it is much, or mostly, or altogether the way of Mr. B. to make a comparison, and find out some pitiful resemblance, which passes for a good reason of what he says, with the men of his way and Spirit. Ex. g. to prove that an unconverted man cannot know how full of sin he is, he will tell you the reason is because his Hoops are on. 
Sinfuln. of Sin. p. 29.  As a vessel that is full of liquor, and the liquor issues through the Hoops; you see there is liquor in it, but you do not know how full it is, till the hoops are knocked off: but than you will say, O how full was this Vessel? Ah now our hoops are on, and it doth not yet appear how full of sin men are; only it comes issuing through the hoops, through their duties; but a Day is coming when all our hoops shall be knocked off, and then it will appear how full, of sin men are. Thus he argues excellently from the Barril; and at another time you shall find him as good in his reasons taken from another liquor in a brass pan or pot. For to prove that some men's little sufferings may amount to much, whereas other men's great sufferings may amount to little, he can give you no other Reason but that God hath a very gracious allowance for his people; a little will content him from them whom he loves. For which he alleges the Commendations bestowed on the Patience of Job, though he was impatient: 
* First and last in suff. work. p. 47.  True, saith he, but God did not measure Job in his wallops, but when he was cold. As we do not measure milk when it wallops and seethes, but when it is cold—  N. C. 
Good Sir, have done with this; for it is but the same that you said before in the former particular, when you told me of his similitudes.  C. 
That's very true. But this is still the way and Spirit of Mr. B. to say the same thing over again in a new fashion, and as the old saying was, to serve up one joint, in a dozen or two of dishes. But to give you a full measure, I will put another in the room of that. There was a good Christian Spirit in the ancient times; but the way and Spirit of Mr. B. is Antichristian.  N. C. 
Fie for shame. That's the thing he charges on you.  C. 
I know it very well. But setting aside the Papists and a few others, 
Compare with his Ten. Serm. p. 370.  who so guilty of it as himself? For it is Antichristian to reproach our Church as he doth. It is Antichristian to condemn the present worship of God among us, and call it Antichristian. To decry an outward glorious Worship as he makes bold to do, is Antichristian. It is Antichristian to oppose all degrees of men in the Church; it being plain that there were Apostles, Evangelists and Prophets ordained by Christ, as there were high Priests, Priests and Levites ordained by Moses. It is Antichristian to call white Garments legal and Antichristian. In short, a furious, seditious, schismatical Spirit, I am sure you will grant, is an Antichristian Spirit, and such is the Spirit of Mr. B. as I will evidently prove.  N. C. 
Do not undertake an impossible task.  C. 
There is nothing more easy, as you will soon see, if you look but into his Sermon of the Two Witnesses, printed with his name to it. In which you may read the danger we all are in, if his Visions and Revelations be true. For having told us, plainly enough, that such as he and their followers are the Witnesses, who receive their Orders to prophesy from Jesus Christ himself, not from men, from the Prelates, from the Beast: then he proceeds to let us know what power they have; 
V pag. 123. of that Book lately printed, 1668. called Seasonable Truths, etc.  which to omit the rest, is twofold and much to be observed. First, to shut the Heavens that they shall not rain, Rev. 11.6. that is, saith he, to restrain the highest powers in Church and State, from their wont influence, which can have no other sense than this; that they shall be so powerful as to bind the hands of their Governors, and tie them up from being able to act. And then Secondly, They shall have power over the waters to turn them into blood, that is, to turn the still people of a State or Nation into war and blood.  N. C. 
Surely they have no such Orders from Jesus Christ; nor will he ever give men such power as this.  C. 
That's nothing. They may take this Power, though he do not give it them. For he tells you, This may be done, though not legally. For the proof of which, he bids you observe, that though it be said he will give them power to prophesy; it is not said he will give them, but they shall have power, to shut heaven, and turn the waters into blood. That is, give such orders to themselves, and assume this Authority; for he repeats it again, It may be this may be done, and not legally. What though the Laws of, God and man command us to obey Magistrates, not to govern them; to live in peace and quiet and not to disturb the public tranquillity: That's a small matter with these men, who fancying they have received a Commission to prophecy, may enlarge it a little further on their own heads, and shut up, or imprison the higher powers that they shall not act; and then put the people into a commotion that they may fish in the troubled waters. And whensoever you see these things come to pass, as he tells you; when you see the Witnesses have power to restrain the highest powers in Church and State from their wont influence; and that they have power to turn the still Nations into war, (and so they themselves are slain for the present) than you may lift up your heads and comfortably say. Now is our Salvation near; For God will bring near his righteousness, and his Salvation shall not tarry.  N. C. 
God forbidden I should thus understand his Revelations. Truly, it would make me hang down my head; If I thought any such things were now a brewing. I hope for Salvation in another way, and had rather it would tarry than be thus accomplished.  C. 
Take it as you will, these things are near; if he may be believed, and will not tarry. The influence of the Higher powers he imagines, I conceive, are already very much restrained: There wants nothing but the troubling of the quiet and still people that they may restrain them more powerfully: and that may soon be effected, if his doctrine be received.  N. C. 
He says no such thing.  C. 
Not in express words, he is wiser than so; but it's the plain sense of his Discourse. For he tells you the 1260 years of their prophesying in sackcloth began about the year 400. and therefore surely the end of the time we must needs be about; as his words are p. 114. Now if you mark what they are to do toward the end of the time; you will see it as plain as the nose on my face, that he thinks we must needs be about the time of shutting the Heavens and turning the waters into blood.  N. C. 
We are passed the time, my good Friend, for if we add 1260. to 400. the year when they ended their prophecy was 1660. O how glad I am that he was mistaken. I hope we shall have no wars nor tumults; and that God will open these men's eyes to see their errors; since no powers were then restrained, but those that would have kept the King from his throne, to which he was restored in that happy year.  C. 
You are an honest hearted man I see? which makes you less suspect the craft of others. There's one word in his discourse which you do not observe, viz. thereabout. That salves the business, and serves him for a little while. For he tells you the 1260. years might begin in 406. or 410. after our Saviour's Birth. If you take the former number, than the prophesying in sackcloth ended in 1666. the year when they expected such great matters, that some confidently cried to the people out of the Pulpits (before they left them) Be patiented. for 1666. will make a mends for all. But it failing their expectation and producing nothing according to their mind; that's the reason I conceive why he hath since that, put in the year 410. for the beginning of the years 1260. and so adjourns us for their ending to 1670. which is now approaching. Then no doubt he fancies the Witnesses must be slain (when they have first troubled us) and after three years and a half rise again. For he asks his people, p. 115. If Christ's Witnesses shall lie in sackcloth 1260. years, will not you be contented to be in sackcloth three or four years? Christian's will you not be contented to be in sackcloth three or four years? And in the next page after tells them, Why now, according to the calculation, there is not much time to come. There is but a little time of sackcloth to come. Shall we not watch with him, one hour, and wear sackcloth with him one hour? Wait a while and he that shall come, will come, and will not tarry, And then he tells them they shall wear white robes, and come out with Palms in their hands; that is the kingdom shall become theirs, and they shall reign and triumph over us.  N. C. 
He doth not apply these things to us in this Nation, as you seem to understand him.  C. 
He tells us indeed, p. 124. That he will not apply them to times and places. But those words are only a gross equivocation (which he must be very thick-sculled who doth not discern) for he had done it already. Having told his Hearers than they were Christ's Witnesses, and that now they were in a sackcloth condition (as his phrase is) but that it would not last long, and that before it was ended they should have power to restrain the higher powers and trouble the people. What need he tell them more? It is enough, I make no question, to make them lift up their heads (as he oft exhorts them) and bear them very high; as being likely in short time to have Dominion over us. And I cannot for my life but look upon them as satiating their fancies, with the imagination of this day of vengeance. Methinks I see them (to use the words of a famous Writer against our Church and State in another case) like a man, who in the drought observes the Sky, sitting and watching, when any thing will drop that may solace them with the likeness of a punishment from heaven upon us; which they straight explain as they please. No evil can befall us, but presently they positively interpret it, a judgement upon us for their sakes: and as if the very Manuscript of God's Judgements had been delivered to their Custody and Exposition, they make the people believe that the Witnesses are smiting the earth with plagues, and finishing their testimony against us. But thanks be to God, their Reading declares it abundantly to be a false Copy which they use. For (to speak in his words again) they often dispense to their own bad deeds and successes the testimony of Divine favour; and to the good deeds and successes of other men, Divins wrath and vengeance. And besides, they have abused the people so oft with their false Predictions from these and other Prophecies, that I hope the world will see, these are false Witnesses (if I may use the words of David to a different sense) that are risen up against us, breathing forth cruelty: who behold lying Visions, and prophecy out of their own hearts: whose thoughts are thoughts of iniquity, as the Prophet Isaiah speaks, wasting and destruction are in their paths. And I would to God you for your part would seriously consider (to use his words once more) that to counterfeit the hand of God is the boldest of all forgeries; and that he who without any warrant but his own surmise takes upon him perpetually to unsold the secrets and unsearchable Mysteries of high Providence, is likely for the most part to mistake and slander them: and approaches to the madness of those reprobate thoughts that would wrest the sword of justice out of God's hand, and employ it more justly in their own conceit, It is but a small thing for such men as these to grasp at all power here on earth; when we see them doing little less than laying hands on the Weapons of God himself, which are his judgements; to wield and manage them by the sway and bend of their own frail cogitations. It is true indeed, in this manner to sit spelling and observing Divine Justice upon every accident and slight disturbance that may happen humanely to the affairs of men, is but a fragment of your broken Revenge: yet it is the shrewdest and cunningest Obloquy (as he well observes) that can be thrown upon our actions. For if they can persuade the people, that we are pursued with the divine Vengeance, they have obtained their end to make all men forsake us, and think the worst that can be thought of us. If they can make them believe that they are the witnesses of Christ, and we the beast that ascends out of the bottomless pit: that we are going to slay them, and that three or four years hence they shall rise again, and all become theirs: they have promoted their Design in the craftiest manner that can be devised. The still people will be put into seditious commotions notwithstanding all the Laws; they that are now quiet will be stirred as with a mighty wind, and conceit (poor Souls) that they are moved by the Spirit of the Lord, and are doing the work of God, fulfilling prophecies, and making the clearest Comment on the Revelations.  
But if there be not a fatal blindness on them, I shall plainly show you, that this is so gross a Cheat that no observing person can be deluded by it. Mr. Bridge you must know is not the first that hath suborned the Revelation to speak on his side, and witness to his Cause. There have been many before him who have assumed the persons of Prophets, and prognosticated their own wishes would come to pass. But the event hath so evidently detected the fraud, and made the forgery appear, that he is very impudent who goes about to serve himself of this old trick; and they prodigiously silly who will still be deluded by it. And feed on the weak conjectures of those who have nothing else to support their sinking spirits, but that which hath made so many ashamed who relied on it.  
For Mr. Archer 
* In his Book of the personal reign of Christ. , you must know in the year 1642, from this very prophecy of the two witnesses, filled the people's heads with this Conceit, that the end of the Papacy would be in the year 1666. They are his express words pag. 44. And he repeats the same again p. 46. where he tells us, that the Witnesses shall recover again in 1666. and draw off one Kingdom in Europe from the Papacy and ruin Rome; and this was that Woe which ends the sixth. Trumpet. Upon which account he adds (p. 60.) that the seventh Trumpet may begin presently after the ruin of Rome, and so the Thousand years commence An. 1670. This no doubt was of singular use in those days to inspire your people with lofty hopes, and bear up their hearts in the good Old Cause against all discouragements: and therefore Mr. Bridge flies to this Sanctuary now, and expects the same success again on the spirits of his Ignorant Proselytes, who have forgot the vanity of such Prophets, or never reflect on the uncertainty of their Guesses.  N. C. 
Do not trouble me, I entreat you, with such relations.  C. 
It need be no trouble to you, because you may reap a singular profit by hearing how such as he have deluded your expectations. For there was another man a little after Mr. Archer, who in his Lectures at St. Lawrence-Jewry, about the two Witnesses (printed by an Order of a committee of the house of Commons, 
Mr. Fr. Woodcock.  27. April 1643,) tells us quite another story; and will have the rising of the Witnesses to begin more early. For his opinion is that the 1260. years begin between the first invasion of the Empire An. 365. and the sacking of Rome An. 410. And the year he pitches on, is 380, or two or three years before: and then the end of them (excluding the three years and a half in which the Witnesses lie dead) fell out about 1637. or 1638. Then, he saith, the Antichristian powers, i. e. the Bishops slew the Witnesses, by silencing, suspending, and throwing them out of their places. And then there was great rejoicing and making merry (according to Rev. 11.10.) by the Popish Prelatical Faction, as he is pleased to call them. But after three years and an half, i. e. at the beginning of the long Parliament, the spirit of life from God entered into them, and made them stand upon their feet, and restored them to their liberty, to the great astonishment of the Antichristian faction. Nay, they ascended up to heaven (vers. 12) i. e. were called by the Parliament to a more ample condition. and they went up in a cloud, i. e. abundance of people congratulated their freedom. Which was then done most remarkably when three of these Witnesses (Mr. Prin, Mr. Bastwick, and Mr. Burton,) were brought in triumph from the utmost parts of the Kingdom. Then was the Earthquake (spoken of Rev. 11.13.) i. e. great Commotions which began with the Parliament. And a tenth part of the City fell, i. e. if you will believe him, Prelacy and Ceremonies: and 7000. men were slain, i. e. Prelates, Deans, and Chapters with their appurtenances, had their honour, places, maintenance taken from them. In short, he confidently affirms the Scene wherein these great things must be acted, is one kingdom only: And that it is no other but the Island of great Britain: and the time of doing them, some years before and since the calling of the Long Parliament, p. 83. And so he concludes very triumphantly, p. 90. Since the Witnesses are slain and risen again; cheer up then: strengthen these weak hands. Verily, the bitterness of death is already over; and from henceforth expect better days, than either our eyes, or the eyes of our Forefathers ever saw. Which is a clear Demonstration, that these men think themselves concerned in all the good things, and us in all the Evil, contained in that Book: and that every little change in our affairs, makes them imagine they see themselves about to be raised, and us to fall under their feet: but yet that their high Confidences hitherto have been ungrounded, and were the birth of their proud Fancies, not the fruit of their sound Understanding of the Revelations of God. And such M. B's prophecies I hope will prove, who notwithstanding all those glorious days which his Fellows promised, is still whining and complaining of their Sackcloth condition; and waits for another Parliament to make them ascend up to heaven in a cloud, and slay 7000. men, once more, i. e. according to the former Exposition, the Bishops, Deans, and Chapters, with all the maintenance that belongs to them. Yet this I will say for him, that he is a little more merciful than Mr. Woodcock was. For he only threatens destruction to us in this world: but the other saith, the power of the Witnesses to shut Heaven that it rain not, is the power to hold all tidings of forgiveness, mercy and peace, from the Antichristian Gentiles (i. e. such as We) while they continue such: and declaring them a people to whom no Heaven, no Forgiveness belongs while in that condition, i. e. while we oppose your desires. You may read this p. 70. & p. 73.  N. C. 
Enough of this. I see their Vanity plainly.  C. 
Nay, let me tell you a little more, for fear you should forget all this, and shut your eyes again. About two year after this Prophet, another, who will not name himself, arose; and dedicated a Book to the parliament with this Title; The great Mystery of God; or the Vision of the Evening and the Morning Opened. 
Printed 1645.  In which he tells us the two Houses of the Lords and Commons, are the two Witnesses which the Spirit of Christ foretold should be raised up to Heaven, the high place of Justice and Judicature. For though all the people of God were Witnesses for 1260 years, yet they in a more especial manner: because they were not only to protest against Antichrist, but were that judgement which should sit, and take his Kingdom and Dominion from him, raised to Heaven by the power of Christ for that end. 7. Dan. 26. 
* For the Ruin of mystical Babylon (he tells you in his Title page) and erecting the Spiritual Jerusalem were the ground of our Commotions, which were not to cease till by that Parliament the work was so completed, that Christ in and by his Sts. should reign on earth a 1000 years.  And therefore he is very confident that our Lord reckoned the 1260. years, from the year 375. So that the time of the Witnesses prophesying in Sackcloth ended 1635. Then they were slain, i. e. deprived of their civil power, if they spoke any thing against the Pope and Prelates; and those three Gentlemen mentioned before, he tells us, were a lively Emblem of the rest. But then between 1638. and 1639. the Spirit of God entered into the hearts and Spirits of the Godly party, both in England and Scotland, as he did into Cyrus; and they took all the power and strength they had, to free themselves from that dead and slavish condition, whereinto Antichrist had brought them. And a great fear fell upon all the Antichristian party both in England and Scotland, yea (such, if you will believe him, was the terror of their appearance) at Rome itself. And then presently they heard a voice from Heaven, (i e. the place of Judicature) saying, come up hither, i.e. that Wise & Godly men would ascend now to those places to do justice upon Antichrist. This Voice was heard first from the whole Commons in Scotland, in whom (mind it well for its rare Doctrine) all the power that is in Heaven did originally reside: 
☜  and afterwards in England, both from the whole Commonwealth, & likewise from the King himself, who sat in Heaven. And they ascended to Heaven, (i.e. to the high places of Judicature,) the same time 1639. in Scotland; and afterward here in this Kingdom. For the rest of the godly were with Child with this great Truth, that the Lord Jesus in and by his Saints was to rule all nations with a rod of Iron: Which is spoken of he saith, 12. Rev. 1. etc. And they cried and travailed in pain to God, by humble and servant Prayers; and to his Witnesses which sat in Heaven by humble petitions, from the year of Christ 1639. to 1641. That the Lord Christ, that manchild, 
u.p. 5. & p. 26.  might in and by his Saints rule the Nations with a Rod of Iron. Whereupon the great Red Dragon, i. e. the Popish Lords and Prelates bestirred themselves to devour this manchild as soon as it was born: but the people of God bestirred themselves both to God by Prayer, and to the godly party in Parliament, that these Popish Lords and Prelates might be cast out. And these Petitions and prayers were heard of Christ and his Witnesses, 12. Rev. 5. And so the Church did not only bring forth the Manchild of Government (mark that; for it tells you some Presbyterians taught, that all power was originally in the People) but it was likewise received up to God and his Throne, into the high place of Judicature. But the Dragon with his tail drew a third part of the Parliament to fall off at the same time, and likewise a war was raised between the Dragon and his Angels (i. e. the King and his Followers) and the Lord Jesus and his Witnesses sitting in Parliament. In short, he tells you, that what was done here should be done in all other Kingdoms, in the year 1655. When Christ and his Witnesses should take the power of all the Ten Kingdoms, which Antichrist had, into their hands; and should reign. Yet so that there should be some little relics of Antichrist in the hearts of men till the year 1700. Then the New Jerusalem he assures you shall be built and the Lamb be married to his Church and Antichrist cast not only out of the World, but out of the hearts of men.  
These are some of the goodly Dreams or Visions (call them which you please) of your Divines heretofore. And no doubt they were then as much believed as Mr. B's Predictions are now. Who if he live to see himself deceived, will be able it's like to invent some new beginning for the 1260. years; and you will still be so foolish as to give him credit; unless these things convince you of the madness of the Prophet. But if he be at a loss, and think such a blind creature as I can give him notice of any thing he sees not already, I may help him at a dead lift, and direct him to a Book where he shall find relief. All my fear is, that he will give me little thanks for my pains, because it will make his heart sick, to hear his hope is like to be so long deferred. For after these Writers I have mentioned, Mr. Tho. Parker of New-England printed a Book about these things, 
The Visions and Prophec. of Dan. opened 1646.  in which he lays down two ways of accommodating the years. If they begin when there were but dark and weak beginnings of the signs mentioned, that was he thinks in the year 390. and so the 1260. years' end with 1649. Then the Turks will cease to be loosed, and the next year after, they may begin to fall together with the Pope, if this way of accommodation hold. If it do not; then we must stay a great while. For the more evident, open and perfect state of the things foregoing was not till the year 600. and so no shutting of the Heavens, no turning the water into blood, at least not putting off their sackcloth, which Mr. B. now expects; till the year 1859.  N. C. 
Stop Sir, I beseech you once more. For I think you have told me too much of this stuff.  C. 
The last man speaks modestly, and therefore it was not amiss to hear him. As for the rest I should not have troubled you with their conjectures, had it not been to let you see; First, what they think of us, whom they call the Antichristian, the Popish party, the Gentiles and Nations; the followers of the Dragon, and such like Names. Secondly, what they think themselves; who are, in their own esteem, the Witnesses of Christ Jesus, the Godly party, the Saints that are to rule the Nations, with a rod of Iron; the followers of the Lamb, who are to ascend to Heaven, the Seat of Justice, and do execution upon us. Lastly, What a Sandy Foundation their hopes are built upon; and how confident they are, and well persuaded of themselves without any cause at all. And that indeed is the chiefest thing I aimed at. To make you sensible, they have no ground for that high opinion they have conceived of their own wisdom and insight into the things of God: they being blindly lead by their own Imaginations and passionate Desires, while they think they understand and see more than all the Wise men in the World. So the last man but one, that I named, bragged and vapoured: glorying that he had found out that truth which none of the wicked should understand; neither Priest nor Prophet; Rulers nor Seers. All is hid and covered from them, and the reason is, because they drank of the Cup of the Whore, of which if a man take but one Sip, he is utterly incapable to have the Visions or mysteries made known to him. And therefore he triumphs in this manner over all our Nobles and Clergy: Who will believe of all our great men and learned Prelates, that Jesus Christ is come in the Clouds of Heaven, and is set down upon the Throne of Judicature in his Saints and Witnesses, to judge that man of sin? No indeed; they had more wit. And yet this the man thought, in his selfconceited Wisdom, to be as clear as the Sun.  N. C. 
I am fully satisfied that they were much out of the way: And therefore more words are needless.  C. 
That the way (you might have said) and Spirit of Mr. Bridg is mostly and chief to be out of the way.  N. C. 
I leave those conceits to you.  C. 
And you will leave it to me also; for you take no notice of it, to tell you the cause of all this.  N. C. 
Because I do not know it.  C. 
It's easy to see that is nothing else but their pride and vain conceit of themselves; as if God would reveal all his secrets to them, and hid them from others. For they are the Watchmen upon the Tower, the Ambassadors of Christ, the Angels of the Churches, the Lords Worthies: And they that follow them, are the Holy ones, the Dear people of God, the little Flock, the Lambs of Christ, the Meek of the Earth, the Redeemed ones, and the Remnant of Jacob. Nay, as soon as ever any person comes to hear them preach; they hope there is a work of Grace in their hearts, and that they begin to savour the things of God; and to desire the sincere Milk of the Word. As for our Ministers, Alas poor Creatures! they are the False Prophets, blind Guides, Idol Shepherds, that have eyes indeed but cannot see at all. And our people are the World, the Wicked, the children of the Evil one, Enemies of God, and such as remain still in Egypt. At least, the vail is before our eyes; or we have taken a sip of the Cup of the Whore, and that sends up such fumes into our heads, that we cannot possibly discern the mysteries of God. Hence it is that the meanest of you takes himself to be wiser than the best of us; than any of our Bishops and Priests, nay the whole Clergy put together. And if we will not have such a man in the same esteem that he hath himself; presently we are looked upon as enemies of the power of Godliness, formal fellows, or mere moralists, that hate the true seed.  N. C. 
Doth not David tell us, that God had made him wiser than any of his Teachers?  C. 
See how you still equal yourselves with men inspired. From which vain conceit and arrogant Opinion, I make no doubt, it is, that you take every sudden fancy and strong imagination that comes into your head, to be an Inspiration of God. And that you are so adventurous and bold in expounding the Holy Scriptures, as if it were given you in that moment, as it was the Apostles, what you should think and what you should speak. Nay, so deep have you drunk of this Witches Cup, and are so intoxicated with self-conceit and self-love, that you imagine all your Devices, and forms of Religion and Government must be received by all the world. For your mind is the mind of God, and your words the Oracles of God. So even Mr. Edwards himself seems to fancy, 
Epistle before his Antapolog.  when he exhorts all people that were waving and hung doubtful between Presbytery and Independency, to wait upon God in that way of his, and Assembly of so many learned and Godly men, to see What he will be pleased to speak by them.  N. C. 
What is this to all the World? were they bound also to listen to what this Oracle would utter?  C. 
You are too quick. I was going to add that as they think themselves the best people here, so the best in the world: and look upon the Reformation itself, as needing a Reformation. And therefore hoped that if they settled Religion among us according to their mind▪ there would be a pattern from the Word set up in this Island, for an example to all other kirks abroad. Thus the Commissioners of the general Assembly of the Kirk of Scotland tell us: 
* Directions to Ministers anent Malignants. p. 12.  and therefore call upon the Ministers to stir up themselves, and the people in Truth and Unity; because, say they, it will be a powerful means to preserve our Religion, and to propagate the same to other Churches, groaning under their several burdens, and panting for such a Reformation as the Lord in Mercy hath granted us. And accordingly they indicted the Fast, I told you of, on the Lordsday, for the promoting Unity in Religion, and Uniformity in Government, and the advancing the Kingdom of Christ (i e. their Discipline) every where.  N. C. 
None excepted?  C. 
No. For Mr. Case tells the Commissioners of the General Assembly, 
* Epistle before his book called The quarrel of the Covenant dedicated to them.  that God had honoured their Nation in making them the first fruits and pattern of a thorough and Covenant-Reformation to us, and all the rest of the Christian World. And withal says, I am humbly confident, that the same shore shall not bound this Covenant, which bounds the now two Covenanting-Nations, But, as it is said of the Gospel, so it will be Verified of this Gospel-Covenant; The Sound thereof shall go into all the Earth, and the Words of it to the End of the World. 
* P. 62. of that Book.   N. C. 
Strange Presumption!  C. 
I suppose he could have found a text for it in the Revelation, if you had presumed then to question his humble confidence. For I observe the General Assembly tell his Majesty, that if they may but have that Unity in Religion and Uniformity of Church-Government in the two Kingdoms which they petition him for, it will appear then that the unhappy Commotions and Divisions among us, were but the 
* Letter to his Majesty, July 27. 1642.  Noise of many Waters, and the Voice of a great Thunder, before the voice of Harpers, harping with their harps; which shall fill the whole Land with Melody and mirth; and the name of it shall be, the Lord is there. The place to which they refer, you know, is 14. Rev. 2. Now immediately after this joy and Melody, there follows, as you may see. v. 6. an Angel flying in the midst of Heaven, having the Everlasting Gospel to preach unto every Nation, kindred, tongue, and people. That is, as Mr. Case perhaps might have expounded it, this Gospel-Covenant St. John saw, upon the wing, about to fly to the end of the World.  N. C. 
No man could be so absurd.  C. 
What greater absurdity is there in this, than in the application which the general Assembly make of the foregoing words to the same purpose?  N. C. 
I approve of neither.  C. 
But then possibly they might have persuaded you it was a good exposition; when Mr. Case made you believe the Covenant was an Ordinance of God, and Holy Ordinance, 
* V.P. 8. and other place of the forecited Book.  a pure and Heavenly Ordinance; yea, one of the most special and solemn, being a joining Ordinance which strikes the main stroke between God and us: the Marriage knot, whereby God and a people are made one: a piece of Divine Worship, and, as far as I can discern, a more holy, or higher Ordinance, in his esteem, than the Sacrament of Christ's Body and Blood.  N. C. 
For shame do not abuse men.  C. 
I am far from it, as you may see if you will but consult his Answer, to this Objection which some made against it. It is needless, say they, to take the Covenant; or rather a profanation of so holy an Ordinance; since we have done it over and over again in our former Protestations and Covenants. To which he replies. 
* Pag. 40.  You receive the Sacrament of the Lords Supper once a month, & that is but a Seal of the Covenant. Consider it, & be convinced.  N. C. 
I am convinced of this, that you do not belly him.  C. 
Very well. And therefore he exhorts the Ministers to endeavour; to sanctify the people for so holy a Service, as the taking of it; and tells the people they must get their hearts into an holy Ordinance frame. Just as if they were going to a new mount Sinai, to be entered into a new Religion; and separated from the Nations to be a peculiar people zealous of the Covenant. And indeed, he all along makes it of the same nature with that Covenant, which the children of Israel made or renewed with God: and so confidently applies all the places of Scripture which speaks of that, to this holy service: that one cannot tell by any thing he says, but this was the Covenant which the Holy Books speak of. Nay some of them when the Covenant came into England looked upon it as the Ark of God's presence, as Mr. Feak tells us 
* Beam of Light. , upon the account of which they should certainly prosper. And Mr. Case, I remember, tells us, this was the sin of England in former times, That our Fathers knew not this service: it was hid from them; they regarded it not: and those times of Ignorance God winked at, or God lightly regarded them.  N. C. 
Sure he did not imagine all our Pious Ancestors to be Heathens.  C. 
You shall judge by and by what thoughts these men have of us all, when I have told you, that in the strength of these high towering thoughts, and lofty imaginations they taught the people to go to battle against their Sovereign, and to fancy the Lord marched before them. They were confident they should prevail because they were the jacob's and we but Esau's; and the Elder must serve the Younger: nay, we the seed of the Serpent and they the seed of the Woman; and so they must wound our head, i. e. give us an incurable mortal blow. Thus they were taught by Mr. H. Wilkinson, in an Epistle before a Sermon 
* Preached before the Parliament, 25. Octob. 1643.  of his: in which he tells the Parliament again, that they have to do with a brood of Serpents, p. 13. at the best, that we are but a piece of Papal Christendom, as his phrase is, p. 8. Nay, when the pride and passion boiles up to its height, than they look upon us and the rest of the world, but as Infidels and Pagans. What other construction can you make of the letter of the Scots in Ireland to the General Assembly 
* Convened at St. Andrews in July 1642. ? In which they desire them to send over some Ministers to them; God having now opened a fair door to the Gospel by the banishment of the Prelates and their followers. Nay, they call to them, as if they made an address to so many Apostles, and the Protestants in Ireland were but so many Heathens; Pity poor Macedonians, crying to you, that you would come and help us, etc. Send able men to help to lay the foundation of God's house according to the pattern. And agreeable to this Petition they returned an Answer 
* August 6. of the same year.  in the Apostolical language, telling them, though they are loath to stretch themselves beyond their own measure, yet they dare not be wanting to the enlargement of Christ's Kingdom. And so they send them some men to plant and to water according to the directions of Jesus Christ, and the Doctrine and Discipline of that Kirk wishing that they who are sent may come with the full blessing of the Gospel of peace; and that they will with all cheerfulness embrace & make use of the message of Salvation. Who would not think, that reads this, if he were a stranger to our Country, that some few Christians in that Island had sent for some Apostolical men or Evangelists to plant the Gospel among a Pagan People? And that the Prelates and Ministers under their obedience, had been but so many Heathen-Priests, that nursed up the Nation in barbarous Ignorance? Such is the goodly conceit they have of themselves, and their horrible contempt and scorn of all others. From whence it is, that they call us the Nations; ask their people when they do any thing that we do, Why do you imitate the Customs of the Nations? And there used, I remember, to be no phrase more common than this, when a man removed his dwelling to a place where one of your Ministers was, that he went to live under the Gospel. And when they inquired of the welfare of their Friends, the current Phrase was, How do the Christians of such a Town? According to the import of which language Mr. Bridge takes the boldness to call us Gentiles, in the ears of the House of Commons 
* Fast Serm. Nou. 29. 1643. ; telling them that the Horns (the King's party) may push and scatter for a time; but the Carpenters (viz. the Parliament) shall fray them away, and cast out these Gentiles. And another bold Writer 
* Paraenetick to the Parl. and Assembly for Liberty, 1644.  tells them that the Army had often put the Armies of the Aliens to flight, and therefore must be considered. Nay, he is so profane as to say, take heed of resisting the Holy-Ghost, for that mighty works have been done by these men you cannot deny. p. 12. Miracles it seems were revived again to convince us, who were either poor Legalists, or Heathen Idolaters. Yea, God did by a continued series of Miracles and wonders (if you will believe the Rump of the Parliament 
* Declar. of 27. Sept. 1649. ) exalt his name in the eyes of this and neighbour Nations by their means. But alas! we were the most reprobate and hard hearted of all other Aliens, that could not be converted. Uncircumcised Philistines, in Mr. Case's language: Nay, Amalekites, with whom the Lord would have war for ever.  N. C. 
Now you grossly abuse them.  C. 
Read the Preface to Mr. W. Bridges his Sermon, 
* Preached before the House of Com. Febr. 22. 1642.  and judge whether I be guilty of that fault or no.  N. C. 
What doth he say.  C. 
He tells you that the business of Christ's Kingdom is looked upon by the squinteyed multitude, under an Hexapla of considerations.  N. C. 
What's an Hexapla?  C. 
Nay, you must not trouble yourself about his phrase, for he tells you in the conclusion of that preface, It is such as I can speak, and I desire to be thankful it is no worse, considering my deserts.  N. C. 
Well then let's hear it, as bad as it is.  C. 
After he hath done with the Theological, the Historical and the Legal, he comes to the fourth consideration, which is Critical. And what's that think you?  N. C. 
You would not let me ask Questions, and therefore I'll make no answer to yours.  C. 
You would never guests if you did; nor can the most Critical of you all tell why he gave it that name; for it is only this. My money shall never help to kill men. To which he Answers; well, if you hinder the kill, quelling of those who would both kill and quell us, ours, our Religion, Kingdom; you become friends of God's enemies and ours: and resolve to make peace with them, with whom God hath resolved to have war, Exod. 17. ult. What think you now, did not this man look upon us as Amalekites? and wish the Servants of the living God, to whom he addresses his Hexapla of considerations, would have war with us eternally? Do you not see what is like to become of us, if men of this Spirit have Power again proportionable to their Will? must not our name be blotted out? and must not he be accursed that doth the work of the Lord negligently?—  N. C. 
I pray no more Questions.  C. 
And then all your Victories will be called once more, the return of prayers, which you take to be as powerful as the lifting up of Moses his hands. And all the Miseries which befall us, the day of the Lords vengeance for the blood of his faithful servants. For I must tell you another effect of your Pride, is—  N. C. 
Do not put me among that number.  C. 
Their pride then, is to think every favour that is done them to be their due, and so they are bound to thank no body for it. God they fancy makes the wicked serve them, and causes them to do that for their sake, which they had no intention to do. And on the contrary, if any justice be done upon any of themselves, presently it is voted persecution, cruelty, enmity to the People of God, and hatred of his Truth and Ways. But let them exercise never so great oppression, tyranny and cruelty upon their Neighbours: it shall be cried up as zeal for God and his cause, Love to justice and pure Religion; at least excused, as a fulfilling the Decrees of the Almighty, spoiling the Egyptians; and acting for the Lord in the day of Vengeance.  N. C. 
This is your time: and so you may say what you will against Christ's witness-bearing people, while they are in their sackcloth condition. It is now only their witnessing time, but—  C. 
But, what? Why do you make a stop?  N. C. 
The times will mend, and the Witnessing time, they say will be over.  C. 
You would have me think then, that you speak their sense not your own: But I perceive you are a little taken with those new Phrases, of the Witnessing time, and witnessing work. As indeed it was always the humour of your party, if a noted man invented an unusual Phrase, presently to form their mouths to that new mode of speaking: Just like a pack of Hounds, that when one gins to open, immediately all sollow, and almost deafen one with the noise. When a Preacher, for instance, from that text, David served his Generation by the will of God, raised this impertinent Observation; That it is our duty to mind Generation-work; instantly all Pulpits sounded with this Doctrine of Generation-work. That was the phrase in those days: In so much that you should hear both Minister and people bewailing it in their prayers, that they had not minded Generation-work more. Which made some good innocent souls, that were not acquainted with the secret, blush when they first heard it, and wonder what they meant. And to say the truth, that was a hard matter to tell. For the Presbyterians, I think, meant nothing but reforming according to the Covenant, the Lord having given them such an Opportunity, as the General Assembly speak in their Answer 
* Presented 25. Aug. 1642.  to the Declaration of the Parliament of England. Where they tell them that when the Supreme Providence gives opportunity, of the accepted time and the Day of Salvation, no other work can prosper in the hands of his servants, if it be not apprehended, and with all reverence and faithfulness improved. And withal, they add, This Kirk when the Lord gave them the calling, considered not their own deadness, nor staggered at the promise through unbelief, but gave glory to God. And who knows but the Lord hath now some controversy with England, which will not be removed, till first, and before all, the Worship of his name and the Government of his house be settled according to his will? This was their Generation-work. But others meant by this Phrase; the pulling down every thing that they imagined Antichristian; Presbytery and all. And some went so far as to think it was Generation-work to pull down Monarchy, to bind Kings in chains, nay Protectors in fetters of Iron. And when they were not able to do the last, though they had effected the other; then they fell to witnessing-work, and prophesying against it: For that was the Commonwealth's men's phrase, when they spoke of O. CR. himself. 
* True Catalogue p. 12.  The Lords faithful people, the foolish contemptible nothings, irreconcilable enemies to the Government of a single person, were putting up their prayers and appeals to the Lord, witnessing, and prophesying against him, and the Beastlike foundation on which he stood, etc. For the setting up of him, you must know, was in their opinion the healing the deadly wound of the Beast 
* Ib. p. 9 . Though by others who were for Generation-work too, and thought themselves as great promoters of it as they; He and his son were called, Moses and Joshua; or David and Solomon, as you may see in several Addresses made to them. But above all commend me to the good people of Chard in Somersetshire, 
The address from those at Leicester was much to the same purpose.  who bless that Providence who had given them such a Joshua to conduct them to the land of promise. Another phrase as hard to explain as the former: But as greedily swallowed, and made use of by your wretched Phrase-mongers, to abuse themselves and the Nation. In short; All the whole gang thought God was fulfilling prophecies, and making good the Revelation, and they must help and be instrumental to him in this Generation-work: Else they might be shut out of the land of promise, and not enter into the New Jerusalem. There was no man of this sort, who had never so little power, were he but a petty Constable, or the like Officer, but he imagined he heard God saying to him as Mordecai to Esther, Who knows but thou art raised up for such a time as this? Nay those whom you count the soberest persons were so drunk with this conceit, that they fancied themselves or their Friends to be Angels pouring out Vials, or some such thing. Mr. Edward's, I remember, who with so much zeal and courage encountered all the Sectaries, and gave a particular reproof to one Durance, who prayed that the King might be brought to the Parliament in chains: Fell into this dotage himself, peremptorily to affirm, that God would honour their Brethren of Scotland to be instruments of pulling down the Sectaries. They shall all fall before the Scots, saith he, whom they have so vilified and unworthily dealt with; as the Prelatical and Popish party did. Which he proves from Revel. 3.8, 9, 10. All those promises to Philadelphia, he assures you, do in a special manner belong to our Brethren of Scotland, as First, that God will make them come (i. e. those who are the Antitype to those Jews, 
Gangraemi second part p. 193. 194.  the Sectaries, Anabaptists, Independents, that whole faction) and worship before their feet; and to know that God hath loved them; that is, they shall overcome and triumph over those Sectaries, etc. O Church of Scotland, and all ye that are for Reformation Presbyterial against the Sectaries, nourish your Hopes by these things, neither let your hearts be troubled, whatsoever the world speaks against you. And so he interprets a story of a Drum beating in an Independent Congregation, as a signification, that the War which the Independents thirsted for with the Scots, as much as ever an unhappy Boy did to be at fisticuffs with one of his fellows, would prove their ruin, and be a means to overthrow all their Conventicles. 
* Gangraena 3. part. pag. 165.  Though alas! Quite contrary to his expectation, the Sectarian Army beat the Scots to dirt, subdued the whole Nation, brought Philadelphia into bondage, and made her worship at their feet. And yet Mr. Burroughs, I observe, one of those Independents Mr. Edw. writes against; seemed, when time was, to have the same opinion of the Scottish Brethren: and to foresee glorious things that they would do. For he tells the Citizens, Certainly that Nation is a Nation that God doth love, a Nation that God doth honour, and, by whose many expressions of his love, sheweth that he doth intent to make them SPECIAL INSTRUMENTS of the GREAT THINGS he hath to do in this latter age of the World. 
Speech at Guild-Hall upon the occasion of the coming in of the Scots.  And it should seem, he read this in the Revelation too, for he adds; We may truly call it Philadelphia, And Mr. Brightman (that famous light it former time, 30. or 40. years since) did Parallel the Church of Philadelphia with the Church of Scotland. Philadelphia signifies Brotherly-love: When was there ever a Nation, such a Church that joined together in such firm Covenant as they have done? Hid we the like Union among us, O how great things had we done before this time? And then he tells them that it is a Nation engaged to God in a higher, more extraordinary way than any Nation upon the face of the Earth; a Reformed Nation: A people that have risen up against Antichrist more than ever any people have done; and that is the great work of God in these times: And therefore certainly God hath a love to them, because they break the Ice, and begin the work, and arise in such a way as they do, for the pulling down of the man of sin. I suppose he means they arose in the way of Arms, and resolved not to lay them down till they had finished the work of the times. What that was, Mr. Burroughs tells you; though the word Antichrist now signifies nothing certainly, but what every one pleases. And Mr. H. Wilkinson tells the Parliament of England what it is, in the same terms. Your business, saith he, lies professedly against the Apocalyptical beast, and all his Compliees. 
Epistle before his Sermon preached, 25. Octo. 1643.  The birth with which you travel, as it was the expectation of Antiquity and Ages past, so it will be the happiness of posterity and Ages future. Think not that it is in the power or compass of Devils or men, to make that birth prove abortive, which himself hath undertaken to bring forth, and to baptise with the name of Israel, it being a child of promise Isa. 66.9. Shall I bring to the birth and not cause to bring forth, saith the Lord, shall I cause to bring forth and shut the womb, saith thy God? No, saith he a little after, God hath spoken the word for the restauration of Zion and building up the walls of Jerusalem, and therefore let your Faith hang out its conquering and triumphing Flag, and let Emanuel be the Moto.  
Thus you see, what both the great Parties thought was the work of Generation: and what fine work they have made of it; there being a greater growth of Antichristianism of all sorts since that time, than ever we knew before. You see likewise, what work they make with the holy Scriptures; and that it had been a great part of the work of that Generation to pervert and abuse them. And withal you see what is become of their high Confidence that they should not miscarry in their Designs upon us, whom they baptised with the name of the Complices of the Apocalyptick Beast. Their hopes are proved abortive; and now they are travailing with a new Wind, and are in pain till they bring forth a Lye. They that were triumphant a little while ago, have taken in their Flag and changed the Motto. Now the word is Ichabod, Where is the Glory? They have altered the Phrases very much and speak in a complaining tone. After so glorious a progress in the Work of pulling down Babylon, and such Assurance they should have the Beast under their feet; they are cast back again, and are but at their Witnessing-work, and Prophesying its Destruction. Now Mr. Bridge tells us, 
* Seasonable Truths in Evil-times p. 100  this is the work of our Generation, Witness-bearing to the truth of Christ in opposition to the ways of Antichrist in Antichristian times. This is the work of our Generation. Good lack! That the World should be thus turned upside down: That their hands should be lately at the work; that the Carpenters 
* Mr. Bridge sermon before the Parl. Nou. 29. 1643. 17.  should be at work in every part of the Kingdom to cut off the borns: and now they should have no work but for their Mouths; Witness-bearing-Work is all the business! strange! The work of the time, said Mr. Bridge above 20 years ago, is to measure the Temple. Nay, we are upon the work of Reformation, building the Temple 
* Ib. p. 24.  He saw the measuring line in the Parliaments hand; yea, the Stones were going to be laid; and all the fear was, they should not lie even. But now all is vanished, a new Vision appears; the Church is hidden, the Inner-Court is not to be seen, and the Holy-city is still trod under foot, and they are got no further than Witnessing-work. Then the work was to cast out the Gentiles, 
* Ib. p. 17.  and now the Gentiles remain within, and the work is only to witness against them. 
* Seas. Truths, p. 112.  This is the work to which a thousand years of Glory and Comfort is promised. This is the work; witness bearing to the Truths of Christ, in opposition to the ways of Antichrist, as he tells over and over in his late Sermons. 
* P. 101. Seas. Truths. printed 1668 Sermon before the Parl. p. 17.  Do you not wonder at this; that the work was so long ago to cast out the Gentiles and the word was given forth, * Up and be doing, and do it fully. Cursed is he that doth the work of the Lord negligently; and withholdeth his hand from shedding of Blood: But now they are only Witnessing & waiting for the Power to turn the Nations into was & blood?  N. C: 
They are grown very humble.  C. 
No. This is but a new proof of their insufferable Pride. They will not ingenuously acknowledge their Errors. They are still as bold & confident in prophesying from the Revelation as if they had never been mistaken. And you feed and encourage their Presumption, while you admire these Dreamers; and suffer them to lead you quietly by the Nose backward and forward, just as they please. The Cause of which I doubt is your Pride too; who are resolved not to be ashamed of your vain hopes, nor abate your confidences; but surrounding yourselves with Prophecies and Promises, to harden your faces, and look as boldly upon us as ever. The world must not think you have miss the Mark: but only suppose you have received a farther light, and that the mind of God is more fully revealed; and that now you have found certainly in the Revelation whereabouts we are: Or rather, many of this sort make no reflection upon what is past. A new Phrase is able at any time to blot out all remembrance of former things. Let them but get this by the end, and there is no other talk, no other thoughts. Away go all Objections and Difficulties, all doubts scruples and fears: All sad thoughts if they have any, vanish as soon as they hear this; and you may quiet them with it when you will, as you do a Child with a Rattle when it cries. Lord, say they, it is Witnessing-time. How shall thy poor Creature go through this Witnessing-work? Alas! Christians, says another when he meets his Friends, we are fallen into the Witnessing-days: Bear your Testimony: Fear not their faces; only let your Testimony agree. If you would bear Witness, unite your Testimony., O, it is a sackcloth-condition, 
Seasonable Truths, p. 124.125.  replies a Third, Let us mind the duty of a sackcloth-condition, let us wear our sackcloth handsomely. I, and then saith a Fourth, Christ will pay all the charge that you are at, in Witness-bearing. If a man have a suit at Law, and have 5 or 6. Witnesses, and carry them an hundred mile, he bears all the charge of their Witness-bearing. Saith Christ, I will give power to MY Witnesses, they are MY Witnesses. Ye are Christ's Witnesses, and look whatsoever charge you are at, he will bear the charge; he will bear all the charge of your Witness-bearing. And therefore be faithful in your Witness-bearing.  
In this manner they are lulled asleep, and tickled out of the remembrance of all things past. Nothing else comes into their Minds, nothing into their Mouths, as long as the strength of these New Phrases last. And their Ministers having found the admirable power of them, and how they stick in their Fancies, and work there, and wholly possess them; they will not fail to furnish them with good store of them, when there is occasion. And should they but change a certain Word now in use, into one of these Phrases I believe it would help to do their business very effectually.  N. C. 
You will not teach them sure in this Art. What do you mean?  C. 
Preaching you know hath been a Word long in use among us, and no body needs be told what we mean by it. But this being an old Phrase there were some that grew weary of it, and changed it into Teaching. And for some time, who taught to day? was the Phrase. But this growing common fell into dislike too; and so they called it, Exercising. And when this became stolen also and pleased them no longer, than I remember, some called it Lecturing. But this would not take, and so Speaking became, in a manner, the only Word. And among the most pure the question still was, who Speaks here this Morning? But afterward this was held forth by him to day? A great many more such Alterations it's like you can remember, who are better acquainted with these matters than I. But I was going to tell you, that if any man should have the conceit to call it Witnessing, or Prophesying; and this Phrase should get among them, who Witnesses to day in such a Congregation? or who Prophecies in your Meeting? or will you go hear Mr. A. B. C. bear his Testimony to day? No doubt, it would take wonderfully; and make a Rabble run like mad to hear what new thing, this Witness-bearing is. For such is the filliness of this people, that they imagine with every new phrase, there is some new thing to be learned; and that the old Preachers are nothing to the new Teachers; and they who hold forth have something more to say, than he that only Speaks. And therefore what will they fancy there to be in Prophesying; and Witness-bearing? nothing less, I warrant you, than a clear Discovery of the things that lay hid from Ages and Generations; the opening of Seals; the numbering of the years, and unlocking all the Secrets of the Revelation. And though they understand never a word, yet they will believe themselves marvellously enlightened, when they are well stuffed with phrases: and are able to talk of Generation-work Witnessing times, shutting up Heaven and commanding that it rain not, turning the waters into blood, and such like things: especially when they can fancy themselves to be Witnesses, and to have Power given them to prophesy, and to send fire out of their mouths to devour the Adversaries. 
V Season. Truths. p. 120, 121.  This is comfortable Doctrine indeed; that they can but open their mouths, and out-come scorching and devouring Judgements, at their prayers, to blast and destroy us all. If this fancy get into their heads, it will be sure to keep them in heart, and blow up their furious Zeal to a greater Heat. And if ever they chance to reflect on the miscarriage of their former hopes wherewith they were big, they will then have a trick ready at hand to salve the business; that it shall not discourage their present confidence. It was only because they were not hot enough, and did not open their mouths wide enough, and breathe forth fiery and devouring prayers against the Enemy. And therefore now they will call to one another as Mr. Bridge teaches them *, & say, Christians, is there a fire, a fire in your mouth? 
Ib. p. 121. & 126.  O you that have any credit in Heaven, pray now. What? Doth fire come out of the mouth of the Witnessing-people of God to devour their Enemies, and will you shut your mouth and not pray? O you that are Witnesses, now open your mouths; for fire proceeds out of your mouths to devour the enemies that hurt the Witnessing-people of God; Open your mouth wide; and you that never prayed, pray now.  
Thus they open their mouths; but shut their eyes, and will not see how they have been deceived. They maintain their confidence by these Arts; and are all agreed in this, never to agree with us. They must have war with Amalek for ever. And though they have many differences, as Mr. Bridge acknowledges, and are divided into many opinions and persuasions, yet if they agree in this one thing, which is the main, to unite their Testimony against us, it is enough. This shall bear up their Spirits, and make them hope though they clash and jar in a thousand things. Let but their witness against us agree, and their hearts shall not fail; but they shall still talk as if they were infallible.  N. C. 
I was loath to be so uncivil as to interrupt you too much in your career: but you have drawn your discourse to such a length, that it would weary your Friends, were they here, as much as vex your Enemies.  C. 
I did not intent so many words: But my thoughts ran so nimbly before me in this Argument, that feeling no weariness in myself, I never reflected how much I might tyre you. Pray pardon me.  N. C. 
Well it's done now: And I will not begin it again by making any reflections on what you have said. But this I must needs say, that Mr. Bridge was always held a very precious man, one that hath a deep insight into the things of God; much enlightened in the knowledge of the Mysteries of Christ, and of long experience in his ways; and therefore I confess, I much wonder at these things, and am troubled that he should write on this fashion. Yet say what you will, there are those, who will follow and admire him.  C. 
Do you think I am so simple as to doubt of it? when I consider, as a French Gentleman once said, how there are scarce any kind of Beasts, which hath not heretofore been adored among Idolaters; nor any Diseases incident either to Body or Mind, whereunto Antiquity hath not erected Teruples; what should make me wonder at so small a thing as this, that divers men have those in high esteem, who are no ways deserving? It is no marvel, if simple people hold Sots in high reputation, since they have addressed their Incense to Apes and Crocodiles. There are those, I have been told, who prefer the neighing of an Horse, before the sweetest and most musical voice of Singing-men and Singing-women: and others that have thought the smell of Garlic to exceed the best perfumes; why should I think it strange then, if there be such men found as are more moved with the knocking of hoops, and walloping of milk, and such like Sounds; than with the still voice of the clearest & most harmonious Reason? In short, I am not forgetful of the Proverb, that the Purblind is King in the Blind-man's Country.  N. C. 
I looked when you would bring forth a Proverb again.  C. 
And is it not significant? I think it deserves to stick in your mind more than any of your Phrases.  N. C. 
But I always thought,  you judge of us otherways, that you had all allowed us to be the most knowing people in the Land.  C. 
Yes; in your own conceit: But otherwise you have discovered the greatest folly. For you would never hear Instruction: but always tickled yourselves with this fancy that you had the work of God in hand; and that what you designed was the very mind and counsel of the Lord; who would never let it miscarry, but bring all your thoughts to pass. Otherways, you need not have been in this condition wherein you are. For I can tell you, who forewarned you of it in Print five or six and twenty years ago, and bade you take notice of these words; If it shall come to pass that in point of Reformation what formerly was proffered by the Sovereign and refused by the Subject, shall hereafter be requested by the Subject and denied by the Sovereign; we shall have leisure enough to admire God's justice, bemoan our own condition, and instruct our posterity not to outstand good offers; lest for want of seeing their happiness, they feel their own misery. But you have no spare moments, it seems, to admire any thing but yourselves: Nor to bemoan any thing but that you do not still sit in Heaven, the place of Judicature, to which you thought yourselves advanced. And are so far from instructing posterity in any true wisdom, that you would have them think the greatest happiness we can next desire is to see the still Nation turned to war and blood. The old saying was, that if things were to be done twice, all would be wise; but you—  N. C. 
Pray leave off your old say, We do not understand matters of Policy, and human Wisdom: but in the things of God sure you will not deny us to have a spirit of discerning more than other folk.  C. 
In the Revelation you mean, and the ancient Prophecies: In Witnessing-work and the work of the Generation. In which indeed you have discovered a marvellous skill; and shown that you can see as far (you will needs have it farther) into a Millstone than other men.  N. C. 
I am sufficiently convinced that we know no more of those secrets than you: But there are a great many other you know beside those, in which it was ever thought we were well seen.  C. 
Now perhaps I guess at you meaning. You have great skill in expounding the Works of Providence, though not in interpreting Prophecies: And can give the reason of those misfortunes which befall some particular persons; contrary to the express sentence of our Saviour, Luk. 13.  N. C. 
Those very words of our Saviour deter us from passing rash Censures.  C. 
Do they so? How came Mr. Vicars then professedly to handle this Argument? and not only tell stories of God's hand upon Malignants; but expressly affirm, 
Looking glass for Malignants, Or God's hand against God-haters.  this was a direct judgement of the Lord for desperate Malignancy; and that, a clear evidence of God's undoubted indignation? And now how came Mr. John White to licence this desperate Book; but that you thought you might do any thing to promote the cause, because it was the cause of God? This makes you still compose Prophecies to amuse the credulous; and fill the Nation with the noise of Prodigies to set the timorous into a fit of Trembling. When your troubled imaginations present you with a throng of dismal thoughts; than you thunder out judgement against us; and when any unusual thing befalls any of us; than you instantly cry out; See the hand of God Behold how the Lord plague's them for our sakes! You know I do not lie. There are two or three whole Books writ since the King's return, that will witness against you, if you should gainsay me. And so would Mr. Vicars; who hath nothing to affrighten Neuters withal but such tales as this; that a certain Malignant being filled with terrors on his deathbed repent of his crime; obtained assurance of Pardon from the Lord; saw Christ himself in a Vision, who told him he had a cause on earth, and that the Parliament of England defended it, and shortly none of those wicked Ministers, that had misled God's people, should be left among them.  N. C. 
I renounce all those Books; and hate that the cause should be served with such stories of God's judgements.  C. 
I wish it be because Christ taught you better, and not merely because experience hath a little instructed you, that this weapon may be turned against you, and wound your side as well as ours. I myself could tell you strange but true Misfortunes that have besaln some of your way; which I will not interpret to the justifying of our cause or the condemning yours. I will only remember how you were wont to clamour, if any man took notice of unusual calamities upon any of you; and to cry Blasphemy, Blasphemy: Though you were so prone to cry Providence, Providence, when the like betided any of us. Mr. W. Bridges for instance, when the converted Gentleman spoke of some remarkable strokes upon three great Persons, 
Answer to Loyal Convert. p. 12.  whose names I will not so much as mention, replied in a great passion; Surely, were not profaneness and blasphemy as toys and trifles among you, you durst not speak much less print such blasphemies as these. Solomon saith, that all things fall alike to all, and the same condition (in regard of outward things) is to the just as to the wicked: As is the good so is the sinner and he that sweareth, as he that feareth an Oath: There is one event to All. For my part; I embrace this Doctrine with all my Soul; for a greater than Solomon hath taught me, not to construe events according to my own fancy, and as will best promote and justify my opinion: Only I wish, you would not alter your mind when the persons are altered; and make one rule for us and another for yourselves.  N. C. 
No. You and I are well agreed in this.  C. 
Thank you for nothing. When you see that which you took to be a sharp sword prove but a wooden Dagger, you throw it away. Such is the great wisdom and knowledge you brag of. You first furiously lay about you, not regarding whether you hit friend or foe; and when you have hurt both alike, than you repent and say, you will do so no more. I pray God you be as good as your word. But I much fear you will prove like King Saul, who when he heard David was in Keilah, said, Now God hath delivered him into my hands, for he is shut in a City that hath Gates and Barrs. And though he saw he was deceived, yet grew never a whit the wiser; but when his Enemy was in a New strait, concluded again that God had entrapped him, and would not let him escape his Vengeance: According to the old saying, They that have forward desires fall into Dreams, although they do not sleep.  N. C. 
We have done I assure you, with expounding the meaning of God's Providence: And shall not pry any more into his hidden Counsels.  C. 
Very good. What piece of knowledge then have you to brag of more than others? Unless you mean some secrets which you keep to yourselves: Special and extraordinary Excitations, and Christian Inspirations to make a Reformation without the calling of the Supreme Magistrate, as Mr. Saltmarsh's words are: An inward call from God giving you leave to break his Law, or as Mr. Bridge expresses it, to make a change, but not in a legal way. This I confess is a Trick, but no such Mystery; a new device, but no great Secret. There is none of us all but can easily learn it; and that we do not, is not because we have not so much Wit, but because we have more Conscience.  N. C. 
No body ever pretended to such knowledge.  C. 
Yes but there did. Mr. Saltmarsh confesses that the early setting forth of private men in the work of Reformation is apt to exceed to a tumultuous motion: Yet for all that he would not put them so far behind, as that they should lie, 
Animad v. (on Mr. Fuller's Serm.) dedicated to the Assembly.  like the Lame and Diseased at the Pool of B. thesda, waiting till a Supreme Power come among them. No, there are many public engagements which they are capable of, and which Providence will often guide them unto: as in finding Outways of Facilitation, and Advancements for the business; beside some other Accana, and secret Preparations. What these Out-ways were, into which a man might lash and so skip over many difficulties, he leaves us to guests. You may be sure they are not the Common high-road of the King of Heaven; as the Reply tells him. His Arcana also he keeps to himself, as if he was one of Heavens close Committee, and so bound to Secrecy. But the most likely person to disclose these Mysteries and reveal the Arcana (if he be not sworn to secrecy too) is Mr. Bridge; of whom you may inquire. And perhaps he will think himself much beholden to you for teaching him a New Phrase which he hath not yet used; Outways of Facilitation of the great and hard work now at hand. These Outways will do knight-service, when they come to the business of restraining the higher powers, and turning the still people to war and blood  N. C. 
You are resolved I see, to lead me out of my way▪ and to take one occasion or other to divert me from the main business.  C. 
We are in our way yet. But I was going I confess to lead you to the dancing on the ropes, and then indeed you might have taken occasion to complain.  N. C. 
I think you are out of your wits. Can you tell what you was going to say?  C. 
I was thinking with myself, what Outways the dancers upon the ropes could find; to whom Mr. Bridg compares Reformers. They have no Outways sure, but what may endanger to lead them out of the world.  N. C. 
Would you would rest a while and take a nap: For I doubt you have heated your Brain by this long discourse, and so begin to talk idly.  C. 
I understand myself well enough; and call to mind that I should indeed have said, Walking (which is more becoming the gravity of Reformers) not dancing on the Rope. For his words are these (when he is exhorting the Parliament to lay the Stones of Reformation with most exactness) You see that when a man walks upon the Rope, he carrieth a pole in his hand to sway him, and he looks diligently to his sect, because if he fail be cannot mend his miscarriage, And I say, that in this work of Reformation if there be the least slip, 
Sermon before the Commons, 29. Nou. 1643. p. 21.22.  it will be a hard thing to recover it, when once a Nation is settled in that miscarriage. Surely therefore the work is to be done with the most exactness.  N. C. 
Well, and doth he not say true?  C. 
I should indeed have considered, that Outways are only to facilitate your getting the work of Reformation into your hands. When you are about it, than Outways are dangerous. All must be done by the Rule and by Line (or in a new phrase by Rope) according to the Word. In brief; I recollect now that this is the Out-waying time, in order to those better times of Walking upon the Rope. But I pray, What was it that I diverted you from?  N. C. 
Oh, now I see you are come to yourself. And will you then ever hear me speak a Sentence or two more— I thank you for this small silence. You have snapped, of late, at my words too hastily; and cut me short in what I was going to say; which was plainly this. We observe the Multitude that run in your way to be a company of blind Ignorant Creatures, that have scarce a drachm of the saving knowledge of Jesus Christ, and the Mysteries of our Religion. Nor do they care to know these things; but only content themselves to come to Church and say their Prayers, and learn their Catechism, and hear perhaps a Sermon, which they presently forget. Whereas our People are very inquisitive after knowledge, and can discourse rarely of matters of Religion, and repeat Sermons; and besides, are very careful to know the pure Gospel-way of Worshipping God. And, truly, when I consider things well, I cannot but wonder how sottish many of your Conformable creatures are, who never scruple any thing, and would without all doubt conform to the grossest Superstition and Popery; should it be enjoined. But we are very tender, and solicitous as you yourselves confess to have pure Ordinances, and to know the very mind and way of God.  C. 
I perceive you have little or nothing more to say of this matter; therefore I pray let me tell you what I think. I cannot deny that many of our common People are very Ignorant: Nay, they themselves are sensible of it and will confess it. But I must add; that yours are generally Ignorant too, only think themselves very knowing. Now which of these think you are the worse; they that are Ignorant but humble and void of self-conceit; or they that are as Ignorant, but very Proud and conceited of their Knowledge? Nay, bold & confident of their own skill, taking upon them to instruct their betters, to dispute with our Ministers, and that as if they were their Equals if not Superiors; without any respect to their learning or office? For I must tell you withal, that as to their duty towards God and man; a great number of those, on whom you bestow only your pity, and esteem Ignorant creatures; have more understanding, at least more conscience than many of those that sigh over them.  
They are more reverend in their Devotions and addresses to God; more respectful in their behaviour to his Ministers; more obedient to their Governors; more humble and modest before all their betters; and, as far as I can see, more just and charitable toward all men: And therefore are in a better disposition to learn more and increase in knowledge, than your prating selfconceited people. And if there be such Effects as these of the little knowledge that you despise; and sew better fruits than talkativeness, malapert contradictions of their Elders, censuring and contemning the ignorance of others, from that great high knowledge which you boast of, I would fain know which of these you judge are like to be most saving. But of these things perhaps we may have occasion to discourse some other time. As for the Rest; I flatly deny that your people are more knowing. For of those that are the most earnest for pure Ordinances, Gospel-worship, and cry out upon our Liturgy, nay abhor it, as Superstitions, Popish, Idolatrous, etc. there is not one in an hundred that knows what those words mean. Be but so true to yourself and studious to understand men aright, as to ask the next you meet, and bid them deal plainly and freely with you, what Popery, Superstition or Will-worship is; and I doubt not you will find they are like a company of Pigs running after an old Sow (which falls a grunting) squeaking and making a fearful cry they know not for what.  N. C. 
You use a very homely Similitude.  C. 
It may pass well enough in common talk, and was the first that came to hand to represent the rude and senseless noise which the multitude make with those words, only by imitation.  N. C. 
But you compare them to Swine.  C. 
No. I only compare their cries together, which are both alike unreasonable. Do but ask for instance what they mean by Popery: and some of these Ignorant Zealots will tell you, it is to do that which is practised in the Church of Rome: Which is no better than the voice of a Brute. If this be Popery, all our Religion is Popery. We must turn Jews, or Turks, or Pagans, that we may not be Papists. And yet that will not do neither; for this Popery will still be found among us, that we pray and give thanks to God, which are actions common to all the world with the Church of Rome.  N. C. 
You need not have spent one word to confute such a gross Conceit as this.  C. 
True. But this sottish Definition of Popery you will be sure to meet withal from some, if you will but take the pains to inquire. Others it's like will tell you, that it is Popery to do any thing after that manner that the Papists do: And then we must never kneel, nor lift up our eyes or our hands, nor meet together in a Church—  N. C. 
Why do you fetch such a sigh?  C. 
I sigh to think of the intolerable blockishness of those people that will pretend to know all the Mysteries of God. For others, who think themselves more wise than the rest, will tell you that to use any ceremonies in use among them, is certainly Popish. And then we must use none at all (and so make no outward expression of Religious devotion, which must be done in some manner or other) or else they must be such as are confessedly absurd and ridiculons. Nay all civil Ceremonies and Customs will be forbidden us in time by these men. At least for every thing that they hate, this shall be the name, Popish, Antichristian, or Babylonish. For O. C. himself, 
True Catalogue p. 15.  I well remember, could not be carried to his grave without their clamours; that it was a needless, chargeable, Popish funeral solemnity; because there was black Velvet, a Bed of State, and a Waxed Image Nay, let Monareby look to itself, for that is Popish and Antichristian too in such men's opinion, and this Kingdom one of the Ten Horns of the Beast. And down shall my Lord Mayor go also (when they are able) as an Image of that Government; together with all the pomp and foolery which attends him; as their words formerly were.  N. C. 
I hope there are no such dangerous persons now among us.  C 
It's well if there be not. But you will certainly find some who will tell you, that all Ceremonies invented by the Pope are Popish; and think themselves, much wiser than their Neighbours if upon this ground they furiously rage against our Church. But the best of it is, that this is nothing to the purpose: For none of ours were invented by him. The Cross was used among Christian people long before the name or power of the Pope was heard of: And so was kneeling; and white garments, and bowing the body in adoration of our Blessed Saviour.  N. C. 
But I have heard some say, that it is Popish to do any thing of this nature but what is prescribed by the Word.  C. 
This is as sottish as all the rest. For it supposes, both that nothing may be done in or about the worship of God, but what we have a Command for, in Holy Scripture; and that the Pope and his followers, are the only persons who have done any thing not prescribed there. Else why should they call it Popish, or Romish, more than Patriarkish, or Greekish?  N. C. 
Is not the Supposal true?  C. 
No. All the ancient Christians did many things in Divine worship appointed by the Scriptures, for which they had no particular prescription there. Nay, such is your Ignorance, you yourselves do so too and never mind it. For what direction is there to make a new prayer twice or thrice a day? And one Prayer before the Sermon, and another after? To receive the Sacrament of Christ's body and blood in the morning and not after Supper? To deliver it into the hands of every person that receives it, with Prayer for him, or Exhortation to him, or both?—  N. C. 
Pray stay. You will let nothing at all be Popish, if you be let alone: At least nothing of this Nature.  C. 
Yes. We are taught by our Divines, that, to ordain such a multitude of Ceremonies, as will employ most of our thoughts and care in time of Divine Service how to do them aright; deserves that name. Or if we make any of them an essential part of God's worship, or give them power to obtain pardon for us, or work grace in us: Or, lastly, it we make them Apostolical and necessary Commands that bind the Conscience as the Laws of God do: Then call them Popish and Antichristian, or what you please.  N. C. 
You say well: And I confess I know a little more than I did.  C. 
O that you would help to reduce those silly, and many of them I hope well-meaning souls, who through mere Ignorance and blind prejudice are departed from the grave and sober way of serving God among us, to follow their own vain fancies; and perhaps conceit they are Witnessing against Popery and the ways of Antichrist; that is, against they know not what.  N. C. 
I am not come so far yet; nor hold myself able to Witness against such persons; but this I can say, that all is not Popery which is so called.  C. 
Nor Superstition neither. Though with the same doltish Ignorance, they charge us with that vice which they are most guilty of themselves and do not know it: As appears by what I told you at our last meeting.  N. C. 
They like not your definition of Superstition.  C. 
That's because they like nothing that we say: And because it makes them so plainly guilty of that which they condemn. But do they like Mr. Calvin's definition of it better?  N. C. 
What is it?  C. 
You may have met its possible with his Institutions, for they have been long in the English Tongue. There he tells you almost in the beginning of the Book, 
Book 1. chap. 12. pag. 41.  that as Religion hath its name from binding, and is set as contrary to wand'ring Liberty; because it binds men up, and prescribes bounds and limits to them, in which true Piety consists: So Superstition hath its name from going beyond all measures; being a humour that will not be bounded nor limited; or as his very words are, that not being contented with the manner and order prescribed, heapeth up together a superfluous and order prescribed, heapeth up together a superfluous number of vain things. Do you like this, I say, or no? If you do, than I will show you that as in Prayers, so in other holy Duties, your humour is to keep no measure nor order, but to heap up one superfluous thing upon another: No set Form can content it, no limits or bounds can hold it; but it is still inventing something new to please yourselves and others; and than you fancy God is pleased, because you are. I know you have a conceit that you keep yourselves within the limits of the Word, and that you dare not for a world stir beyond the confines which God prescribes: But this only makes your Ignorance appear the more gross, as I will plainly show you.  N. C. 
I guess by what you said the last time whereabouts you will be; but it will turn us too much out of our way to enter into that discourse at this time.  C. 
Well then, I'll let it alone till you give another occasion. And the rather, because I would have you go as soon as may be, and ask what Will-worship is? That's another word in these Witnesses mouths, of as much efficacy and as little sense as all the rest, for when they are angry, they charge one another with it as well as us. The Independents were wont to say, that it was Will-worship to set up the office of Ruling Elders in the Church: And I can show you one that calls the Church-Covenant, requiring men to give some signs of grace, and all the way of Admission of Members into Independent Congregations, by the very same Name. And therefore I believe you will soon leave such to wrangle it out; and go and ask some others, what they mean to bawl so against Forms. But I believe there is not one of a thousand can give a reason, why he may not as well accuse the whole frame of Nature as our Liturgy upon this account. Especially if you tell him that there is nothing in Heaven or Earth but hath a Form. That when we understand, it is by forming some conceptions in our Mind; and that we form our Speech or words to make our conceptions understood by others. And therefore even your Prayers must be in a Form, or else they are senseless stuff; a mere noise and sound that no body can understand.  N. C. 
We are only against set Forms.  C. 
And so many of your Prayers have none at all; but are then thought most heavenly, when they are most confused; and to have much of God in them when they have nothing of Man. For the common word is, I like not Forms, etc. He still sticks in Forms: He is a dull formal man: Which are Phrases as set and stinted as our Prayers. They are never out of use, but repeated an hundred times a day. No repetitions they think are bad, but only of the same Prayers; nor any other constant Forms unlawful, no not of railing and reviling, but only those of Divine Service. These they leave to the wicked, and take the other to themselves.  N. C. 
Pray do not say so.  C. 
I must say more than that. They hate a Form of Prayer, but love to pray in these reviling forms of speech. For they tell God, how a Superstitious and Antichristian way of worship hath justled out his own Institutions. That men worship the Graven Images of their own inventions. That Gebal, Ammon, and Amalek are risen up against them. And the people are taught to go and spread their anger and threaten before the Lord: And to tell him, that it is an angry time, a persecuting time, a day of great wrath; abundance of anger and wrath, 
Seasonable Truths, p. 180 182, 184.  and hatred and malice in the bearts of men against the people of God at this day: Or as Mr. B. 
* Now  his language is in another place, Popish men have laid their net privily for us; and we may go to Christ and say, 
* Fullness of Christ, p. 37.  Lord pull us out of the net that they have laid for us, for thou art our strength. And, for any thing I can see, much of that they call the Power of Prayer consists in such Forms as these.  N. C. 
Alas! You know not what that power is.  C. 
I know it is just such another word as Form, which they use without any certain-sense, as they are wont to do the Apostles words concerning a Form of Godliness without the Power of it. This Form of Godliness if you will believe some, is Praying by a set Form 
* Answer of the Ministers of New Engl. to the first Position, p. 2. , and then the Power of Godliness, must be praying without one.  N. C. 
It cannot be.  C. 
It is as I tell you. And this is one of the reasons that the world hate the Saints; for that the Saints are a praying people: You must not mistake: Forms of Prayer they can endure, 
Seasona. Truths, p. 168.  but the Power of Prayer they cannot bear. They are Mr. B. his words.  N. C. 
No indeed, not if it consist of such railing language as you speak of: But neither you, nor I, it's like, apprehend his meaning.  C. 
Do you know what he means when he gives this for another reason of the hatred of the world to the Saints; that they destroy their Gods, destroy their Idols. Men of all things cannot endure to have their Gods destroyed: now the people of God do destroy the Gods of the wicked, no wonder therefore that they are so provoked against the Saints and people of God. 
Ib. p. 167.   N. C. 
Not I  C. 
Then you are very dull. He means our Worship, which they are wont to rail upon in those terms also, calling it Idolatry, worshipping the Golden Calves, and setting up new Gods: which are such rude and beastly Clamours, that I am loath to foul my mouth with naming them. They are only vile and abominable Phrases which every Ignorant wretch can serve himself of, when he lists to reproach his Neighbours. At first the Presbyterians called Conformity to the Innovations (as they were styled by them) Worshipping the Golden Calves. Afterward the Independents called the Directory, the Golden Calves of Jeroboam; 
Edw. Gangr. 1 part. p. 36.52.  and affirmed that this order to help in the way of Worship was a breach of the second Commandment. Nay, Mr. Burton, one of the Witnesses said, that to make a Law about Religion was to set up the Golden Calves, or Nebuch adnezzar's Image: Or if you will have another Phrase for it, to choose new Gods and then was war in the Gates, 
Ib. p. 25.  as an Independent Preacher said at Chester when they were about to choose Lay-Elders. But to be even with them, the Presbyterians threw those Phrases back again in their faces, and asked the five Brethren: Is the Golden Calf of Independency and Democracy come out of itself, without Aaron's making it? And in conclusion one Web (as the same man tells us) called the Scripture itself; that Golden Calf, and Brazen, 
Antapologia, p. 188.  Serpent which set at variance King and Parliament and Kingdom against Kingdom, and said, Things would never do well, till the Golden Calf and Brazen Serpènt were beaten in pieces *. No wonder therefore, if the same man said, 
Gangr. part 1. p. 86.  The Scottish Nation was the Babylonish-Beast, Ib. p. 87.  N. C. 
I should not have been offended if you had called such men as these, Beasts; and said they bellowed or brayed (or what you please) against your worship; Speaking evil of those things, which they know not. But you are not Ignorant, I hope, that we have a more knowing people than these, who are truly Religious and mind serious things.  C. 
What is this to the purpose? I ask for a Pick-ax and you bring me a Spade. We are not talking of some select persons, but of the Multitude; which I affirm are grossly Ignorant. Yet since you lead me to it, I must tell you there are Serious as well as slight follies: And I have reason to think there are divers of those who are more sober than those we now spoke of, and pass for very knowing Christians, that have small skill in any thing but Phrases. For what greater token can there be of Ignorance than either not to understand what a man means, or elso to slight and undervalue what he says, if he declare the Doctrine of Christianity in plain and simple words? Nay to complain as if Religion were lost and the Gospel gone, if we leave off their Forms of Speech and beloved Phrases?  N. C. 
Now I scarce know what you mean?  C. 
Do you not remember what a noise and clutter there was, when Mr. Baxter began to speak more intelligibly about some weighty things in Christianity, than others did?  N. C. 
Yes very well. Some thought he taught a new way of Religion, and led us from Christ to the Law again.  C. 
The reason was because he put them very much out of the road of their Phrases. This made them fear Christ would be taken away from them; and free Grace be despised, and a Covenant of works restored. And for the very same cause they raise such a dust now against many of our Ministers. They do not hear them talk of getting into Christ, and getting an interest in Christ; and that for this end they must get Faith, and go to the promise, and eye Christ in the promise, and close with him in the promise, and lay themselves flat upon the promise; and go out of themselves that the promise may enter: All which you think are very mysterious things, because you are Ignorant; for let all the sense that is contained in any of these forms, be delivered in proper plain and easy words, and you despise it as a thing of naught. Though you talk of Gospel-light, and Gospel-discoveries, and Gospel-manifestations, yet there is little or nothing all this while to be known or understood. Religion you will have to be such a Mystery, that if a man thinks he understands it, he ought to conclude he is not acquainted with it. It is a certain sign a man hath no skill in it, if he imagine he knows the plain meaning of it. It must be looked upon as a Great something: A thing to be stared at and admired, but no body knows what: At least you cannot clearly discover it to us, not withstanding all the brags we hear of light and discoveries.  
Hence it is (which is a great argument of their Ignorance) that great numbers of your Religious people, have been so easily perverted and turned to the wildest Sects; when as the clearest Reason that our men can speak will not convince them. What multitudes have soon turned Anabaptists, Antinomians, Familists, and Behemists; but how few, and with what difficulty, can be brought to the Church of England? This is an evident proof to all considering men that they can be made in love with any thing but only Reason: And that a Disciple of Jack-pudding shall lead greater troops after him, than the gravest Divine. They will sooner listen to a fancy, and are more ready to embrace another pack of new Phrases; than the soberest sense and the wisest Instructions that can be spoken.  
There is a famous and undeniable instance of it in the other, and as you think, the Purer England. Was it not a wonder that the whole Church of Bostou (some few excepted) should become Converts on a sudden to a daring woman, and be infected with her damnable Opinions? And that, 
You may find these very words in the proceed of the General Court holden at New-Town, Oct. 2. 1637. against Mrs Hutchinson and others, p. 32.40, 65, 66.  though they were esteemed, Wise, sober and well-grounded Christians; and some of her opinions also had the whole Current of Scripture against them? Nay, they looked upon her as a Prophetess (such were her spiritual gifts) raised up of God for some great work now at hand, as the calling of the Jews, etc. So as she had more resort to her for Counsel about matters of Conscience, and clearing up men's Spiritual Estates, than any Minister, (I might say all the Elders) in the Country. This they impute to the craft of this American Jezabel: But I have reason to think the truer cause was the Ignorance of these knowing people; who were easily cheated by her new Phrases, and soft Doctrines concerning Free Grace, glorious light, and holding forth naked Christ: Especially with such pretended. 
v. Mr. Wields preface, and Error, 25.33.38, 48, 71. etc.  Mysteries as these, that, Christ is the New Creature; that we may have all graces and yet want Christ. That there can be no true closing with Christ in a premise that hath a qualification or condition expressed; that conditional promises are Lagat, and therefore no true comfort can be had from them. That to act by virtue of, or in obedience to, a Command is Legal; that to Evidence Justification by Sanctification or Graces, savours of Rome; that the Witness of the Spirit is merely immediate, without any respect to the Word, or omeurrence with it; that the Seal of the Spirit is limited to this immediate Witness, and doth never witness to any work of grace, or any conclusions of ours. And finally, that the immediate. Revelation of my good estate. without any respect to the Scriptures, is as clear to me, as the voice of God from Heaven to Saint Paul.  N. C. 
There was Witcheraft sure in the business.  C. 
Yes; of sweet Doctrines, and glorious phrases: The pleasing murmur of mysteries and spirituality, of immediate Sealing and witnessing; of Revelations and manifestations of the Spirit. These bewitched the wisest and soberest and well-grounded christian's (because in truth they were Ignorant, and stood upon the ground of fancy and imagination) who would have stopped their ears like the deaf Adder to the charms of sober reason, should a man have charmed never so wisely. Nor could they ever be disenchanted by all the Arguments and persuasions of all the Ministers in that Country, but she kept her strength and reputation, even among the people of God, 
Ib. pag. ult.  till the hand of Civil justice laid hold of her; and then she began evidently to deeline, and the faithful to be freed from her forgeries. So wholesome sometime is a little severity: And so much is the force of Civil Authority with these people, above the sharpest Arguments of Divines. For they opposed the Spirit, and their manifestations and illuminations, to all their Minister's Reasons; which would do no service at the bar of the Court of Justice, where they understood none of this language. And now I speak of the Manifestations of the Spirit, it is very strange to me, that you should generally expect the Holy Ghost should do for you, what Christ promised at his parting to the Twelve Apostles; teach you all things, and guide you into all truth. It is another sign of great Ignorance in you, and of insincerity I doubt, in many of your Ministers; who are afraid to dispossess you of this conceit, and to instruct you in the plain difference between these times and those; but suffer, if not teach, you to apply to yourselves whatsoever our Saviour spoke to the Apostles alone. A thing which is so palpable, that I cannot but wonder men should so pervert the Scripture; especially when they see there is no such thing, but that those whom they account the people of God, are of several, nay contrary minds. And that all cannot be in the right, and yet none they think devoid of the Spirit, to teach them all things and lead them into all truth. This sure makes so many think every strong and unusual motion they find within them, is the work and operation of the Spirit of God. And that every place of Scripture that comes on a sudden into their mind, is darted from Heaven and the immediate dictate of the Holy Ghost: Though never so impertinently applied to their present occasions. And that all the ardent affections and transports, and raptures they have in prayer or at other seasons, are likewise Inspirations from above; and that now they are filled with the Holy Ghost. Which is a gross and ignorant Conclusion, in my opinion; for want of such obvious considerations as these; that such heats and flights are common to them with the Heathen Poets, and excellent Orators; and that bad men have had them as well as the best: As I am able to show you, if you please.  N. C. 
Some other time if you will; for we have spent now a great deal in this kind of discourse.  C. 
Let me tell you notwithstanding, that this, I believe, is one reason that your people are filled with so many doubts, jealousies, and fears of being deserted. When they have not these heats; then they think the Spirit is gone; and how to comfort them, it's hard to tell, till they return again. And now I mention this, give me leave to tell you, it is another evidence of great Ignorance, That the minds of well meaning and honest-hearted people among you are full of so many scruples, and so uncertain what to resolve on all occasions. You may say perhaps it is, because their consciences are tender, and very careful and wary what they do: And so you may say when you see a Blind man tremble and walk softly, and feel his way at every step with his staff, that he is, a very Wary man; when it is not Caution but his want of sight that makes him so diffident. And indeed how is it possible they should have any true assurance in any case, when it is to hard if not impossible, to be resolved in the great question of all, What a man must do to be saved; and attain the satisfaction of knowing that be hath an interest in Christ? To this, the most admired Divines reply, that a man can have no comfort but only by going to the promise. O, but saith the poor Soul (according as it is taught) I dare not so much as look to the promise, 
Mr. Th. Hooker's Poor Doubting Christian drawn to Christ. p. 30.  I cannot believe it. To this the Answer is (p. 115.) That a man shall never believe on these terms, if he look to have faith before he go to the promise. For thou must not have faith and then go to the promise; but, must first go to the Promise for the power of that faith; from it thou must receive power to believe. But then how shall the Soul go without Faith? Will a Promise do him any good unless he believe it to be the very Word of God, on which he should trust? This is an unanswerable difficulty, as far as I can find. These Divines cannot tell him how he should go to the promise since it is confessed he must go by Faith, and if be look to have faith before be go to the promise, he will never have it. They only tell him over again p. 117. and if it will do, well and good: That we must not bring faith to the Promise; but receive faith from it to believe. Thus the poor Soul is sent to the promise for Faith, and back again to saith to lay hold on the Promise; but how to do that who can tell? It must first go to the promise to fetch faith; and yet how should it go, if it have no faith? In this case how should a man choose but be full of scruples, and like one that is bewildered and lost, not knowing what will become of him?  N. C. 
I have read the Book, for it uses to be one of the first that is recommended to us, and as I remember he tells you a little after, How a Soul should get to the promise.  C. 
I thank you for remembering me of it. He moves indeed that question p. 144. But methinks he only leads a man into a worse Labyrinth. For these are the Rules to be observed how the Soul may get to the Promise. First, Throw off all power and ability in thyself. Let the bear't lie still, till the wind and tide and promise come, and that will carry thee. And yet the Second Rule (which immediately follows) is this, which contradicts the former: Bring the promise home to thy heart, that the promise may bring thy heart to it. How is this possible? I would know how to get to the promise; & I am told I must lie still, that the promise may come to me. And yet at the next breath I am sent to bring the promise home to my heart; which supposes I must go to fetch it. What a case am I in now? What Direction can he give me to bring me out of these Briers? Why? To answer this doubt, the only way is to unsay this in the third Rule, which supposes the Promise will come of itself, and that I need not bring it home: For it runs in these words; When the promise is thus come home to thee, and thou seest the sufficiency and the Authority of it; then all thou hast to do is this In the stream of that promise, be carried home to the promise, p. 149.  N. C. 
I can make no sense of it.  C. 
Nor I neither. But the thing he seems to aims is this; that a man must only wait till Christ assures him that he had made all the promises to him. For thus he explains the business. Jacob would not believe that Joseph was alive till he saw the Chariots that were come for him. These sent from Joseph to Jacob, brought Jacob to Joseph. So every believing Soul is poor and feeble; disabled to go to God and to believe in the Lord Jesus. 
Doubting-Christian drawn to Christ. p. 148.150.  Therefore be must look to the Chariots of Israel first (it should be of Joseph according to the resemblance) and that will convey him to the promise: and when the chariots are come, get up into them: The Lord Jesus is gone to heaven and hath sent these chariots for thee; therefore get thee up, and say, Lord, take me up with thee. And so they did: They got up into I know not what fiery Chariots, and mounted into the Air, and there fancied they saw the Lord Jesus immediately revealing himself to them; and so carrying them to the promise, the absolute promise. And I verily believe these Doctrines were they from whence the American Jezabel (as they called her) extracted her Poisons, and by which the people were prepared, to drink of the cup of her Fornication; persuading themselves that a man is united to Christ and justified without Faith, that Faith is not a receiving him, but discerning be hath received him already; that a man is united to Christ only by the work of the Spirit upon him, without any act of his; that there is a testimony of the Spirit and a voice unto the Soul, merely immediate, without any respect unto, or concurrence with the word. And that there are distinct seasons of the workings of the several Persons; so that a Soul may be said to be so long under the work of the Father and not the Sons; and so long under the work of the Son, and not under the Spirit. And in conclusion, that a man is not effectually converted till he hath full assurance, and that this is given immediately; all the activity of a Believer being only to act to sin. All these, I say, are the plain sense (if there be any at all in this Book) of what he delivered in more obscure words.  N. C. 
Pray go not about to prove this. For my head gins to turn round already, merely with the scent of these intoxicating ingredients.  C. 
If these Doctrines had been broached by any of us, you would have found out our picture long ago in the Revelation, and said, that the Church of New England was Thyatira, and this the Jezabel, which called herself a Prophetess: and that such Divines as these were the Prophets of Baal, the Priests of Jezabel, and these Doctrines the Doctrines of Devils. All which you might have done with a greater colour and show of reason, than apply these names to our Priests. But you are favourable to one another; and wink at such Books as these, provided, the Authors be Nonconfurmists; and cannot (as you ignorantly speak) bow to Baal.  N. C. 
I am glad there are none of these Doctrines here in this England.  C. 
Those Books are here, and highly admired by such sound Believers, as take all for Gospel that some men say; but can find nothing of Christ among those that speak sense and make the Doctrine of Christ intelligible. Nay, I can find you Disciples of such Authors as these among your Preachers; who will sometimes tell you that Christ will do all for you; 
Sips of sweetness, or Cons. for weak Believers, by John Durant, 1662.  and then tell you presently that something must be done by you. Thus one of them introduces the Soul complaining, That the Duggs of Divine love are full, but I cannot suck. Answer, Be of good comfort, Christ will not only open his Bosom, but thy Mouth. But I cannot fetch out the Milk that lies in his Breast; I am but weak. Answer, Christ is sweet; and with his finger be will force out the Milk of Mercy into thy Mouth; if thou canst but open thy Mouth. What need he have made an if of it, if Christ would open its mouth? and if he will do that and every thing else, why did he not make an end of the business in one word, and say, All the Activity of Believers is to act to sin? And so comfort the believing Ewes, who are big with young in a sinful sense, and say—  N. C. 
We talked a little while ago of some men's bellowing and braying, and now you are going to fall a bleating.  C. 
You are very pleasant. I hope than it will not offend you, to let you know that I was giving you the explication which this man makes of those words in Isaiah 40.11. I will gently lead those that are with young, that is, saith he (according to the admirable way, 
Pag. 102, 103.  now in fashion, of expounding the holy Writ) Christ will be very kind to those Saints that step aside (which is called whoring in Scripture) and deal gently with those who are big with young in a sinful sense; whom, I was going to tell you he comforts thus: O ye sinning Ewes, who have been big with young, hath not be gone after you, and furned you, and laid you upon his shoulders rejoicing 
* Pag. 114. The very Phrase of Mr. Hooker. Though thou canst not find the way to heaven, yet he will find thee, etc. and lay thy Soul upon his shoulders, i. e. upon the Riches of the freeness of his Grace, p. 149, 150. ? It may be thou hast been wand'ring like Dinah from thy father's house, & art big with young, and afraid to go home. But fear not; go and try; be will not cast you out of doors. Though you come with big bellies (to keep to the Metaphor) he will deal gently with thee, though with young. p. 119.  N. C. 
We have followed these Ewes, or Goats, or what you do please to call them, too far.  C. 
It's true. But at first I intended only to tell you, how he describes weak believers: Who have, as Divines say, the Faith of Adberence; they will stick to Christ as theirs; but they want a faith of Evidence, they cannot see themselves to be his. p. 18.  N. C. 
These Divines speak Nonsense.  C. 
Judge then in what uncertainty the Disciples of these Divines live, who never tell them plainly what Faith is. And what a strange blindness they labour with, who cannot see (as they speak) that they are Christ's; though they persuade themselves that he is theirs. Nor do I see what satisfaction they are like to receive in particular cases, any more than in this, the greatest of all. Your Doctrine seems to me to be so obscure, that it's hard to come to any solid setlement or peace of mind. One of your Rules, for instance, is that we must have a warrant from the word of God for every thing we do: If there be neither Precept nor Practice that we can find there to justify an action we intent, it must not be done. This without doubt hath wosully insuared your people's Consciences, and is one great reason they are so full of fears and scruples: They have been taught not to rely upon impartial Reason, but to seek still for a place of holy Scripture to be their guide and warrant. So Mr. W. Bradshaw (a famous Divine, 
Defence of his Book of Lots against Mr. Balmford.  whose name I know you reverence) confessed to Mr. Gataker; that he was often troubled to satisfy some in their Cases propounded to him, though he gave them never so good reason for his Resolutions, because they would not therewith be satisfied, unless he could produce some place in Scripture for every particular Thus infinite perplexities, doubts, and scrupulosities must needs arise in men's minds (as Mr. R. Hooker well expresses it) and stops and rubs without any end be cast into the course of men's lives concerning their ordinary and civil affairs, if the light of Reason shall be suppressed; and men shall be constrained, burn it never so clearly, not to proceed by it in aught they are to do, till they have had solemn access, first to the written Word, and fetched light from some particular sentence in it, for the farther confirmation of them therein. And thus I may add, the Scripture came to be basely wrested and bended from its proper sense and meaning, to serve their particular occasions. And, in their great Ignorance, they went away better satisfied with a fanciful and impertinent application of it to their present business; than if the soundest Reason in the world had been offered to them. Only, this in time was the mischief of it, that by this means they found a Way to justify unlawful Actions, and supported their Confidence in those ways, against the most evident Reason. But it's possible you will not regard what I say, nor Mr. R. Hooker neither, being one of those you call blind and superstitious writers. Let me send you therefore to Mr. Calvin, who tells you that if you understand not your Liberty about things in themselves indifferent, there will be no quiet in your Consciences, no end of Superstitions. Many indeed think, saith he, that we are fond to move disputation about the free eating of flesh, about the free use of days, and garments, and such other small trifles, as they think them: But there is more weight in them than is commonly thought. For when Consciences have once cast themselves into the snare, they enter into a long and cumbersome way, from whence they can afterward find no easy way to get out. If a man begin to doubt, for instance, whether he may use linen Sheets, 
Instit. L. 3. cap. 16. Sect. 7.  Shirts, Handkerchiefs and Napkins; neither will he be out of doubt whether he may use those of Hemp, and after that of coarser stuff, Nay, he will begin to weigh with himself whether he cannot sup without Napkins, and be without Handkerchiefs. If he think dainty meat to be unlawful, at length he shall not with quietness before the Lord eat either Brown-bread, or Common meats, when he remembers that he may yet sustain his body with base food. If he doubt of pleasant Wine, afterward he will not drink even that which is dead, with peace of Conscience; last of all, he will not be so bold to touch sweeter and cleaner water than other. Finally, at the length he will come to this point, to think it unlawful (as the common saying is) to tread upon a straw lying a cross. For the Question is not light and small, being no less than this; whether God will have us do this or that, whose Will ought to guide all our Counsels and Actions.  N. C. 
I know none that are troubled with such idle scruples as these.  C. 
That may proceed from the dulness and shortness of their thoughts, which never let them see into what endless Labyrinths their principles will lead them. I am sure such rules as these have been so improved by your Ministers, that in an ignorant zeal, they deny you your lawful Liberties, and lay upon you unnecessary Restramts. And on the other side entice you to hear controversies and all manner of Doctrines; saying, that no part of the Counsel of God must be suppressed, and conceiving the People would be defrauded, if they were not admitted to these disputations. They make no difference, as my Lord Bacon 
* Wise and moderate Discourse of Church affairs, printed, 1641. since published in his Resuscitatio. 1657.  observed long ago, between Milk and Strong-meat, and, to speak again in his words (which now come to my mind) what I said before in my own; they seek to prove every thing by express Scripture, or else imagine it is not to be allowed; and then that constrains them to wrest it, and make conceited inferences and forced allusions. And as for preaching it hath been in a manner made necessary to sanctify every Ordinance; which is another very ignorant Conceit. There are many have thought, saith he, that it is almost of the Essence of the Sacrament of the Lords Supper, to have a Sermon before it. This hath brought Liturgies, and firms of Divine Service into contempt; and made those to be despised who had not the faculty of constant preaching. As for those that could not preach at all, they have been always reproached by you in so strange a manner, that it hath been another occasion of corrupting our Religion, and bringing the holy Ordinance of God into contempt.  N. C. 
It's impossible; you should rather say the quite contrary.  C. 
Hear me a little and then judge. These poor men were in a manner constrained by your rude clamours, to take upon them to expound the word of God, though very unable for it; and thereby exposed too early even Preaching itself to the laughter and scorn of those that had some Wit to discern, but no goodness to pity their Weakness. They were loath to hear themselves called Idol-Shepherds, that had Mouths but could not speak a word from God; and so rather than endure this reproach they entertained the people with their Glosses, Paraphrases, and Discourses, upon the holy Scripture; and called all the Word of the Lord, though never so absurd and senseless. Silence I confess had better becomed them, than straining themselves to speak what they did not understand: but yet consider how hard it was to resist the temptation to open their Mouths as oft as they could; whereby at once they might both avoid the contempt and odious brand of a dumb dog; and also get a great reputation, with the Ignorant multitude, of an able, painful Minister of God's Word.  
And as for those who had some abilities to expound the Scriptures and exhort the People, they were called upon with so much earnestness to preach the Word in season and out of season, that they knew not at last what to preach. They were forced to step up into the Pulpit and make a noise, when they had little or Nothing to say. By which means the Holy Writings were applied according to their present fancy; and handled in a very careless and Superficial manner. A bold Face and a ready Tongue were fain to supply the place of good Reason and well digested Thoughts. 
Fire of the Sanctuary uncovered p. 310.  Loudness (as Dr. Corn. Burges once told you) was made to serve instead of matter. For they found if they were but earnest, the people accounted them very zealous preachers, and imputed their want of matter to their wisdom and desire of edifying: Not to their want of study or ability. And it was their custom to say, He preaches to the Conscience, He stands not upon deep learning: He reproves sin boldly; and if it was other men's, not theirs, so much the better. For the very truth is, the people do not love to hear nothing but their duty; or to hear it frequently repeated. And some taught them in time to call this Legal-preaching; Gospel Sermons were then to be contrived; nothing but Christ and free Grace to be preached. And because they grew weary even of hearing these so often over; there, was a necessity to device Novelties, or else not preach so many Sermons. The last would by no means be admitted, and so the Scriptures were to be squeazed, new notions invented, delicate new phrases coined, and indeed a new Religion made to please the people. Can it, for instance, have entered into the head of any man, from those words of Isaiah before mentioned, to talk of Believers being big with sin; and to make such observations as these, that it is our Glory to be Christ's Ewes; and that when a man is big with young, and cries O my belly, my belly; here is a point of comfort, that Christ is sweet to such persons; could a man I say have ever thought of such things as these, but that he was to strain the words as far as ever fancy could stretch them; because he must have soon done with the Text, had he given only the proper sense of it; and the people have soon done with him, had he not sought out some new Inventions? They were at least to be courted with some sweet and indearing phrases, and called O Blessed Ewes, O Believing Ewes, and O Believing Bees, that suck the honey of sin hatred, out of the Wormwood of sin acted: And told, that Christ accounts their stammerings sweet: Meih, Meih, saith the little one, and the mother counts it Music. And so no doubt do the people count this puling sort of preaching. O he, is a sweet man says one, an affectionate man saith a second; a melting preacher saith a third; because he lays them to the Dugs of Christ's Love, and bids them suck, or but open their mouths and cry Meih; of if they cannot, assures them Christ will do it for them: Not considering all this while, that he entertains their fancy with the fullness and freeness of those Breasts, and leaves their thoughts hanging and admiring there; merely because he is dry and empty himself, and hath nothing else to say.  N. C. 
O Sir, we find that they are never drawn dry.  C. 
You must say so, who can fancy you drink up rivers when they give you but a sip: and see with much satisfaction some Sips of Christ streaming through a poor creature. 
Epist. to the Reader.  And truly, as long as there are Streams and Beams, your Poets will never want rhymes, nor these Preachers stand in need of Reason. For Beaming and Streaming will do the business at any time, and make them pass for extraordinary men: Especially if they have the confidence to say as this man doth, that Chrtsts spirit brought that Text (Isaiah 40.11.) to his hand, and that his soul hath tasted some sweetness by what Christ gave in upon that subject. For so you must believe, if you will be kind and sweet as he is, that the Holy Ghost hath made him overseet of the flock of God and bid him feed his Lambs, and that Christ gave in to him this sense of the prophet's words, that he will be sweet to his believing Ewes, when they are big with Sin. And indeed it is craftily done to entitle Christ to their Dotages, for were it not for that; there are scarce any so stupid that would not despise them. But consider then how modest these men are; who had rather Christ and his blessed Spirit should bear the reproach of being Authors of such absurd Glosses and ignorant Comments; than honestly acknowledge that they are the fruit of their own, Fancies; which would soon be drained, if they did not supply them with such Inventions.  N. C. 
There's no danger of that; for they are very full men, as you have often heard me say.  C. 
So they are: very full of impertinent allegations of the holy Scripture, of tautologies, absurd resemblances, childish fancies, and false reasonings: and yet withal very full of Confidence and self-Conceit, which, to say the truth, you are all full of; a very few excepted.  N. C. 
You are full of wrath.  C. 
That's a part of your pride and self-conceit, to call truth by the name of wrath, passion and bitterness. And to pretend withal that whosoever speaks any thing against you, is an enemy of God, unacquainted with Religion, a formal, superstitious, or moral man. But take it as you will, and think of me as you please, I say that, in my observation, there is scarce a dram of that virtue called Modesty to be found, I will not say in one, but in a whole Country of you. You are generally full of yourselves, highly conceited of your own understanding; impatient of contradiction, in so much that my Lord Bacon tells us he knew some of your way, who thought it a tempting of God to hear or read what might be said against them. By which you may see this is no new humour, but runs in the very spirit of the party: who cannot think that any understand so much as themselves of the things of God; and imagine the Spirit guides them which must not submit to reason; and that no man hath any true Goodness in him, that is not one of them. Upon which account they ever supposed all men of whom they had any good thoughts, to be of their way in their hearts; nay, all other of any parts to be against them, merely for the love of the World. This I will evidently prove to have been, a long time, the humour, even of your eminent Professors; if it shall be contradicted. And it is the cause I believe that they complain so heavily if any man reprove any of them: as if there could never be found even in good men, something worthy of Reproof; or as if that which we reprove in them, were an undoubted part of their goodness. But they will take the liberty, not only to reprove, but to rail upon us, as much as they please: & say, when they have done, as Mr. Saltmarsh did to the Assembly, I bope you will pardon me, 
Epistle Dedicat. before his Book against Mr. Fuller.  if zeal for the truth make me see another's faults sooner than my own. Nay, the ordinary people among you have not the least respect to any of our Minister's understanding and skill, not to say his Office and Calling: but, as I told you before, will talk and dispute with him, and after that reprove and censure him as if they were not only his fellows but his judges. Whereas the very same men would take it extremely ill, should any Minister take upon him to control or but direct them in matters of their Trade, to which they have served an Apprenticeship: though far more easy to understand in a short time, than the Holy Scriptures in many years. Proud saucy Spirits! who undertake to teach those of whom they should learn: and slight, nay sit in judgement on those, to whom they ought to give great honour; and to whose judgement in many cases they should quietly submit.  
It was long since the zealous complaint of a holy man (saith C. Burges) that men could no sooner get up their names in the world, 
Fire of the Sanct▪ uncovered p. 68  and be able readily and confidently to muster up a few places of holy Scripture nothing to the purpose; but they thought themselves sufficient to encounter Moses himself, setting upon him as furiously as Dathan and Abiram ever did. Happy were this Age, had it none of them. To whom it is in vain to say any thing, but to them whom moderation hath yet some hand over, I say this of the same ancient Father; Their contumacy I beseech you, let us fly; their madness let us abhor; lest we perish with them in the same vengeance.  N. C. 
I confess I know some of this spirit; but you grant there are others of more Moderation, that are eminent for their Piety and all other things, who do not forget that they are men.  C. 
Our ears are almost deafened sometimes (as Mr. Rathband, one whom you valued, saith in another case) with the praise of some of these men's eminent Learning, Piety, Sincerity, Zeal, etc. And truly I believe several of them are learned men, and such as are modest, meek, humble, peaceable, and I judge them sincere. But there are great numbers joined with them, who would be thought the most eminent because most active in that way; who under colour of zeal of God's glory, hatred of sin, desire of serving God in sincerity; are thrust by an evil Spirit that hath deceived them, into pride, self love, rashness, unnatural affection; uncharitable surmises, and most unchristian judgement of their Brethren.  N. C. 
Methinks you judge, and that very hardly, of others.  C. 
See your partiality; and that fond Affection you have to yourselves, and one to another. Those are none of my words, but were long ago spoken by several Ministers of yours (who had some scruples indeed about Ceremonies, yet never left our Church) against those that separated from it then, as you do now. Is not this to reject that very thing, when it comes out of our mouths, which you readily receive when you hear it from one of your own?  
But as to the business of Judging others, since you mention it and it is so much talked of, I openly declare, that I judge no man in things indifferent; as you are wont to do, and as the Jews judged the Gentiles, and St. Paul himself. But it is not indifferent whether a man be humble, modest and peaceable or not▪ Such I may censure, who, for instance, are disobedient to Authority and despise their Betters and Governors: And it is your great fault to censure even those that are obedient, and in things which they profess to believe to be indifferent. Is it like good Christians think you, to call those Superstitious, Will-worshippers, Complices of the Beast, who declare they do not believe any Ceremony they use, to be any part of Divine Worship, nor necessary circumstances of it; but that they may be altered by Authority, to which they are bound to yield Obedience: And in the mean time to cry out on those who reprove you for downright Opposition to Authority, for clamour, evil-speaking, apparent pride, and such like things; which the Laws of Christ judge and condemn, and tell us are manifest fruits of the flesh? You cannot think so (sure) unless your understandings be so strangely blinded by the love of yourselves, that the clearest Truth cannot enter, if it show you your errors. Indeed if a man merely omits to do those things that are commanded; but is not unruly, cross, clamorous, an opposer of Laws, a maker of Parties, and separate Congregations, nor in any other behaviour unchristian; I think, I ought to leave him to be judged by Christ, who searches the secrets of men's hearts, and who only can tell whether it be Weakness of understanding, Interest, Humour, Love of reputation, and such like Reasons that keep him from obeying Laws; or pure Conscience and invincible Ignorance. But if he be turbulent, a railer or reviler, a slighter of human Laws and a Blasphemer of Dignities; if he be one, that makes Divisions and Offences, i. e. Sehisms in the Church; not I, but the Apostle judges such a man, not to be a servant of the Lord Jesus Christ, but of his own belly. Which that he may provide for, he gives good words, flatters the rich and the great, and is very compliant with all that he hopes to win to be his followers and friends: And he uses also fair speeches (or as Mr. Tyndals' translation hath it, sweet preaching) he praises and commends those that follow him, he supposes them to be the people of God, and precious ones; he extenuates their faults and magnifies their good deeds; and so deceives the heart of the Innocents' (as Mr. Tyndal reads it) or, of the simple people: Read the place in Rom. 16.16, 17. where the Apostle not merely bids, but beseeches them to mark or observe such men as these; and tells you for what end; that they might avoid them. But how is that possible, unless we judge that they are unfit persons for our company; and that walk not according to the rule of the Gospel?  N. C. 
But you should judge then only for yourself; and labour to hid and conceal the faults or errors of your Brethren, For Love covers a multitude of Sins.  C. 
Love is to cover what sins may be covered; but some cannot be hid they are so publicly committed; and Others may not be hid though they could; because the concealment of them will do hurt to themselves and others; to the public and the private Wealth. In which case, it were both against Piety, Charity, and Prudence to conceal them. And to that pass are things now come among us, that in both respects I think your courses are not to be covered. First, they cannot; at least in great part, being long since made public to the world, and daily are more and more, by your own printing, preaching, and private instilling them into others. Secondly, they may not if they could, seeing by forbearance all this while, they have fretted like a Gangrene into the Bowels both of City and Country: And I fear we have kept their Counsels so long, that many of them are already past cure, and we almost remediless in our rents tending unto Ruin. 
Narration of some Church Courses in New England by W. R. p. 51.  Nay, do not frown, as if I were too sharp and severe: They are not my words, but some of your own against the Independent Brethren, and may with as much, or more, justice be now applied to you all.  N. C. 
I think there are other courses more dangerous than those, that aught to be looked after. Profaneness, I mean, is the great thing which both you and we ought to set ourselves against; and that, I must tell you, abounds more among you than any where else.  C. 
I cannot tell—  N. C. 
What cannot you tell? Whether profaneness should be opposed by both with the greatest Vigour?  C. 
Be not so fierce. First, I cannot tell whether Profaneness abound more now, than it did in the days when you reigned. I told you the last time what the Assembly told the Parliament of the sudden growth of wickedness since they began to sit. And I am sure it was not checked in the following years; but the seasonable exhortation of the greatest part of the London Ministers complained no longer ago than 1660. of the great Wickedness broken lose among us; (which it seems was chained and bound up while the Bishops governed) and, as a great instance of it, tell us in the conclusion of that sad Lamentation, that some (as we are credibly informed) are grown to that height of wickedness as to worship the Devil himself, p. 10. And then, secondly, I cannot tell whether the Wickedness that hath so much abounded beyond that in Elder days, be not in great part to be imputed to yourselves: For all the time you declaimed against the Ignorance and blindness of the people, you cast many fearful stumbling-blocks before them (as an honest Suffolkman told you some years ago) while they could not but see or hear your scornful censuring and condemning others; greedy panting after and gasping at the Riches, Honours, 
Mournful Complaint to the Knights and Burgesses of that County, 1656.  and Preferments of this World; fraudulent circumventing and overreaching your Neighbours; cruel revenge upon those you judged your Enemies when you had power; bitter quarrelling and contending one against another: and yet notwithstanding all those sins, which might have justly caused you to lie in the Dust, they saw you lifted up, boasting of the glorious times you had made, proudly appropriating to yourselves the honourable name of Christians, Saints, and the godly Party. Nay, the people were not so blind but they could see how you measured the Saint-ship of yourselves and others, rather by some private opinions or small punctilios of worship; than by the great things of Faith, Righteousness, and Mercy. For they found some men whose profession of Christianity was attended with these, accounted no better than civil men; while others were cried up for Saints and Godly, who were much deficient in them. Besides, your Ministers took no care to Catechise the youth in the Country: Nay, brought that Ordinance into such Contempt, that to this very day a man is not thought to do his Duty, who spends the afternoons of the Lords day, in that instruction. They heard nothing but Orations in the Pulpit morning and evening, and those (God knows) very sorry ones in most places. As for the Sacrament of the Lords Supper, a great many honest-hearted people were frighted from it. You made such lofty Rails (as he observes) about the Table, that few or none of the poor people could come at it: As if you thought it a matter of great piety to confine the Members of Christ's Body to a little room, and cause his Death and Passion to be known and remembered only by a few: As if it were an honour to Christ and an advantage to the world; that his name and memorial should perish from the hearts and mouths of a great part of the people professing his Name, and engaged in Covenant to him. Nay, in many places, they never saw it administered to any at all, for many years: Your Ministers choosing rather to deprive themselves and others of whom they had a good opinion, of this Heavenly Banquet; than afford▪ it to many well-meaning, though no talking people. And so while they complained of their living in known sins; they themselves lived many years in a notorious omission of this Duty. Sometimes indeed they would invite men to this feast; but then by their preaching they hindered and discouraged the most if not all in a Country-congregation; as if they were too forward to acknowledge the benefits of Christ, and keep up his remembrance. In short, many of them accounted the people no better than Heathens, and upon that score would not baptise their children; and thereby endeavoured to make them so, and quite thrust them out of the flock of Christ. O that you would all search your hearts (as that honest man said, to find out the true root of this Spirit of Separation, and observe narrowly whether under other specious pretences or with some pious intentions, there were not a bitter root of pride and haughtiness, causing you to affect singularity, and desire to appear alone to the view of men; thinking it below your worth to be found in Communion with those, whom in opinion you have laid so much below yourselves.  
But let that be as it will; Thirdly, I cannot readily tell which are worse, the Publicans and Harlots, or the Scribes and Pharisees. This I know, that there have a long time been a great many of the last, who justified themselves and looked upon all others as abominable. Dr. Burges 
* Fire of the Sanct. uncov. an. 1625. in the preface.  I remember tells us with a great confidence, that those who kept heretofore such a frantic coil about ceremonies, and thought they never took their level right, but when at every bolt they shot, they struck a Bishop's cap shire off his head; were more fantastical, Ignorant, Proud, selfwilled, negligent and deceitful in their particular callings, than many whom they despised, and condemned to hell for Carnal men: As any observing Eye might easily discern. Now what to think of these men in compare with the other, let honest Martin Bucer tell you, who was one of the first Reformers, and whose name I know you cannot but reverence as well as I, on many accounts.  N. C. 
How do you know what Martin Bucer saith?  C. 
I understand a little Latin; and besides I have seen the latter part of his Comments on the Prophet Zephaniah translated into our tongue; where he tells us, towards the Conclusion, That there were some among them under a pernicious Mistake, abhorring only these gross things, to wear brave clothes, to far deliciously, to drink and swill, to whore, to heap up riches carefully, to be Usurers, and others of the like Kind; but in the mean time, Arrogance, fastidious disdain of their Brethren, to languish about frivolous questions, factions, reproach of God's Word, slanders against his Ministers, easily to believe lies, and being rashly believed or (or perhaps by an evil suspicion suggested) to spread and scatter them abroad; these and such like things, saith he, pass with them sometimes for Virtues. Nay, they think themselves thrice Holy, while they walk about with a stoical Superciliousness, bended Brows and sad Countenance; while they wear mean clothes, and rattle all mortals in the ear, not so much with grave Words as with claps of Thunder; crying out, that all is naught and wicked. That which I have experience of, as he goes on, and have good assurance of its truth by certain observation, why should not I testify to the Glory of Christ and the Admonition of the Brethren? Of those who abound so much in accusing the vices of others, whom every Garment that is a little more neat, every little Entertainment that is more plentiful, every Word that is more merry and pleasant doth much offend, that are always complaining concerning the want of Excommunication; I have found very few (that I may not say none) who do not labour with remarkable conceit of themselves, insufferable contempt of their Brethren, incredible impatience of any neglect of them, and sometime with other more grievous Evils. Besides that they are in a manner always addicted to new and strange Opinions; which tend only to Schisms and nothing to Edification. Now Heresy is a fruit of the flesh, and doth far more mischief than all Drink, Whoring, or Adulteries. On the other side, among those persons whom they detest no less than Heathens because of a life more remiss, and the riches of the World, and a certain splendour or bravery; I have found very many who as they acknowledge themselves obnoxious to sin, so they think of themselves most humbly, and of their Neighbours most Benignly: they are very candid in their Thoughts and equal in their Judgements concerning others; always accounting themselves the worst, etc. And when the Cross that they have deserved lies upon them; nothing is more patiented than they; none hazard themselves more for the Lord. These things I have certain knowledge of, and why may I not declare them to his Glory? And I call him to witness, that in speaking this, I mean nothing less than to set any brand on a more severe mortification of the flesh, and renouncing of worldly things; or to encourage those that live remissly, or indulge any desire of the flesh: No, I pray the Lord that he would give me and all his chosen grace, to use still more sparingly, the things of the body, ourselves, that we may impart them more liberally to the Poor. May we have grace also, so to observe our Tongues that even a little Idle word do not escape us, but all that is ours may be directed to Profit and Edification. I have written these things and annexed them to my Comments (God knows) for no other cause, but that I might admonish the Brethren who have the grace to live frugally and severely, and to be free from outward Offences; first of all, diligently to watch the Devil lest he infest them with inward ones: and while he permits them to avoid those external Vanities and Delicacies, he bring them in love with inward and far more mischievous Evils; that is, to please themselves, and to delight themselves in the condemning of others; and then to sport themselves, and play the wantoness idly in novelty of opinions; from whence break forth openly, Grudge and Hatreds; then Factions, Sects and unspeakable Scandals in the Church. That which follows I shall omit, as not being so much to my present purpose (though otherways worthy of your notice) which was to show what opinion wise and holy men have had of that Spirit, which now rules in you: and so conclude what we are to direct our zeal most against, and assault with the greatest vehemence. For your part; it is manifest you oppose Conformity with might and main; and study by all means to keep up the Separation: as for Us; it is your desire we would set ourselves wholly against Profaneness, and let you alone. But we cannot thus abandon ourselves, and throw off all care what becomes of our Church. We hate profaneness and are resolved to oppose it; but we hate Pride and self-conceit and faction and Separation, and we are resolved to beat down these too. And I must tell you withal, that our Blessed-Saviour was more frequent and more severe in his reproofs of the Scribes and Pharisees (how like you and those of Mr. Bucers' time are to them, let the impartial judge) than he was of the Publicans and Sinners. And, whatsoever you think now, heretofore I am sure your Ministers granted thus much, that the Devil▪ Gain more by Schisms, than by coldness in Religion; and that he had rather draw men from their first love to a fiery and indiscreet Zeal, 
Confut. of the Separate. agreed upon by many Ministers and published by Mr. Rathband 1644.  than to lukewarmness and indifference. For first, hereby he staggers many others who were well settled, and makes them children again in understanding, and turns them about with every wind of Doctrine; and secondly he deprives those men of the happy means of recovery, which they might have easily enjoyed, had they remained in the fellowship of the Church. And would to God you would once more sadly consider, whether those many revolts that since the first separation have been made from your gathered Congregations, to monstrous Opinions and filthy Practices, have not been a just Punishment of you, for your too high Valuation of yourselves and uncharitable separation from us. What construction you make of such things we know not (they are the words of the Honest man I mentioned before) but to us that are more Ignorant it seems very strange, that, 
Mournful Complaint.  whereas you fished with so great a Mash that scarce one of a hundred was taken by you and admitted into your Churches; out of this hundreth part of yours, more should be found revolting to absurd, foolish, nay pernicious Opinions, than of the Ninety nine parts you left behind. It ought in my poor opinion to put you into a just suspicion, and serious re-examination of that way, from which there is so easy a transition to so many dreadful delusions; and through which so many have already passed over unto the enemy.  N. C. 
Let those examine who are most concerned in it. My mind is full of something else.  C. 
What's that?  N: C. 
You have repeated so often the Schism (as you call it) or Separation that is made from your Church; that I perceive it is the great thing that sticks in your stomach, and which angers and frets you so much. And indeed Mr. Bridge told us it would do so, in one of those Sermons you mention so oft. The Saints and people of God, 
Seas. Truth's Sermon 6. p. 166.  saith he, they withdraw from the men of the World, and do separate from them. Now when we withdraw from men and from their worship, we condemn their Worship; and the men of the world do not love to be condemned. To separate from them and from their Worship, this they cannot bear. The Saints do separate from them, and therefore there is such a deal of anger and wrath in their hearts against them.  C. 
Alas! Good man; Doth he think we have such an opinion of him and his Saints, as they have of themselves? He flatters himself too much. It is one thing to imitate the Saints, and another thing to counterfeit them. He shall never persuade me that quicksilver is better than gold; and that turbulent and affrighted Imagination can be a surer guide either in the choice or exercise of our Religion, than a calm Reason, and a fixed well-resolved Judgement. Let him call himself and his party Saints a thousand times, or as oft as he breathes; it shall never move me at all, nor shall I think the worse, but the better, of myself for being none of them. Let him pride himself in new devices, of a different worship for the Saints and the rest of the world, I am very well contented, if they will but withdraw themselves far enough from us, and let us be out of the hearing of their Gibberish. Let him lead them to the Indies if he please, and be separated from us by the wide Ocean; it will be a great satisfaction to enjoy our worship quietly 
* Yet you must not hope for this; For they must stay to power forth the Vials, which next to the Separating from us, is the thing that provokes the Antichristian party. For they are to torment the men of the world, and make them gnash their teeth, and by't their tongues for pain. As he tells you afterward. pag. 179.  to ourselves. Or rather let him retire into his Closet, and think no company in the world pure enough for him but his Books, and no Books but his own; his preciseness, I assure him, shall never trouble me at all. And I suppose I may pass my word for our whole Church, that they will not complain for want of his company; nor think it any disgrace to our Worship that such do not like it, or perhaps abhor it; nor any shame to themselves that they will have no Communion with us. There were always people of a morese and sour humour whom nothing can please; no not what they do themselves, when once it pleases others too. They must be of a contrary Opinion to the whole race of mankind: And hate some things, only because others love them. And therefore if they not only withdraw themselves from us, but also slight us and set us at naught; the concern is not so great, as to require my care. Let them call Us the World, and if they please, the Dogs that are without the Holy City; I value it no more than the barkings of an angry Cur: Though in his vain conceit of himself and party, he imagines we lay their disrespect to us mightily to heart. For this you know is another cause which he is pleased to assign, why the men of the world are angry with them. The Saints and people of God do not regard the men of the World; and the men of the World they think so. Now for high and lofty men to be slighted and not regarded, this makes them angry. For which he citys Dan 3. and then repeats it. They cannot bear this, that they should not be regarded; high and great men, that they should not be regarded: and therefore no wonder there is such a great deal of wrath and anger in their hearts against the people of God. But let him repeat it as oft as he will; tell him from me, that it moves us not at all to want their regard; for we do not think ourselves honoured by their Esteem and Respect. It is rather a reproach than an honour to be commended and praised by such mouths, as value a composed countenance and a Sett of phrases; more than the most composed and regular life, and the best sense in the world. Let them slight us therefore so much, if they list, as not to move their Hat, or give us the time of the day, or turn their face another way when they chance to meet us; it is all one, we shall have never the worse opinion of ourselves or of our Worship. We do not think them so able to judge of true worth, or to discern between true and false, good and bad, as to concern ourselves about their Opinion: these being almost the same thing now adays, and though all undertake to judge, yet few know the difference. We have something else also to support us than their favourable opinion of us; and that is, a sincere care with unblassed affections to search after the Will of God; and a readiness to receive and do it, whensoever we know it. Let him bring us Reasons in stead of confident assertions, and see if we will not studiously consider them; and if they be good, yield to them. He spoke admirably who said, that our Reason ought to yield obedience to nothing but Reason: and that Authority is a yoke which none but God hath a right to impose upon our judgements. If God say it, that's reason enough: but we shall never be persuaded that they only hear or understand what he says. Let them talk as if they had not only slept in our Saviour's Bosom (as a Gentleman I remember sometime said) but even watched in his heart and soul, and as if there were none of his intentions hid from their knowledge: They will never gain the greater credit with us, unless we see more than words and confidence. No, though they should not only contemn and scorn us as altogether ignorant in the things of God, but pronounce anathemas and Curses against us as the limbs of the Apocalyptick Beast; Heaven we know laughs them to scorn, and we shall smile at their ridiculous presumption. The Wolves we know will never be reconciled with the Shepherd's flock; and when we have done all that we can, there will be an Envious and Malicious Generation, who like the Rats and other imperfect Creatures (which it is possible were bred in the Ark itself) will still be gnawing the reputation, even of the best Church in the World. Every thing under Heaven is abused; yea, and what Heaven itself hath spoken is not safe from Injury and Violence; and therefore why should we look to have a general respect, or be cast down or angry either at the neglect of these men, or, if they please, their Contempt and Reproach?  N. C. 
You say you are not angry, but methinks you are in a great heat.  C. 
Not at their slighting us, I assure you.  N. C. 
What then?  C. 
I told you, that I professed a just indignation at some things; & more particularly to see the Scripture so: wretchedly abused & wrested, even in this very case, to justify their Separation and withdrawing from us.  N. C. 
You mean, I believe, that to the Corinthians, cited by Mr. Bridge. Come out from among them, and be ye separate, 
2 Pag. 166.  touch no unclean thing. 2 Cor. 6.17.  C. 
Yes.  N. C. 
And doth it not require us to have no Communion with the wicked, of which your Congregations we think are full?  C. 
But do you think than we are all Pagans and Infidels; i e. such people as do not so much as acknowledge Jesus Christ to be the Lord?  N. C. 
God forbidden.  C. 
Then you apply those words impertinently to us (as you do the rest of the Scriptures) who are nothing like those, from whom the Apostle would have the Corinthians withdraw. It is an exceeding great shame that you have been so long turning over the Bible, and talking of the word of God; and yet not understand so plain a thing as this. You seem to me to be like those the Apostle speaks of in another Epistle; who are ever learning, but never come to the knowledge of the Truth. Nay, you are like little children that tear and rend their Book into little scraps; or like those imperfect creatures, I spoke of before; you nibble at a bit of the Scripture, and instantly start away, and leave all the rest. Can you not have cast your eye back but to the 14. verse? There you might have seen who they are the Apostle speaks of. Be ye not unequally yoked together with Infidels, saith he, i. e. Either do not marry an infidel, or do not join with them in any of their rites belonging to their Idolatrous service. Be not at their Idol feasts; the thing he admonished them of in the former Epistle, and touches upon here again (as some think) lest they should not be cautious enough in this particular. For the Apostle having told them an Idol was nothing, they might hold these festival entertainments to be indifferent things, and so when their kinsfolk, or friends invited them, not deny that Civility, to accompany them to their Temples. Stay, says the Apostle, consider what you do. What fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness, etc. these things are as contrary as Light and Darkness, you cannot partake of the Table of the Lord and the Table of Devils too; as he told them in his first letter. And then he renews his Exhortation, Come out from among them, and be ye separate (from those Idolatrous Infidels) touch no unclean thing; meddle not with their Idolatrous services, nor any of their wicked ways. You would be more assured that this is the sense, if you would but turn to the place from whence these words are cited (as the Margin directs you) Isa. 52.11. where the Prophet bids not the more holy sort of Jews to separate from their profane Brethren; but the whole Body of the Jews to fly out of Babylon; as any body may see that reads the place: And therefore they cannot be urged without a notorious force to prove such a separation as you are in, of one part of a society professing belief in Christ, and baptised into his name, and renouncing all Idols whatsoever; from the other. And so Mr. Geree I remember, a discreet Presbyterian, confessed, and explained the words to the same purpose that I do. And so did a noted person long before him 
* Arin. 1610. Mr. Rich. Bernard plain evidence p. 140, 141, etc.  and far more largely, in his dispute against the Brownists. For I must tell you, those old Separatists, condemned by all honest Nonconformists in former times, sought to justify their Schism, from the Church of Christ from this very place: and the very truth is, so did the Ancient Donatists. Who, to make a fair show for their fearful Schism, cried out just as you do now, Come out from among them, touch no unclean thing: Depart, depart: Separate yourselves. Have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness. Be not partakers of other men's sins: What hath the Chaff to do with the Wheat? which are the very words now Ignorantly employed by your Party against us; with as little knowledge of their sense and meaning, as of their being the rotten Tools wherewith those Schismatics sought to overthrow the whole Church.  N.C. 
How come you by more knowledge than other folk in this matter? Can you tell what the Donatists said?  C. 
Yes, without reading St. Austin. For I can believe an old English Divine who lived above half an Age since, that acquainted me with this; and shown withal that those proud people had the same answer to this place from that Father, 
Mr. G. Gyffard. plain Declaration that our Brownists are full Donatists. p. 19 An. 1590.  which I have now given you. These words, saith he, They understanding carnally, have cut themselves into so many divisions, into little bits; in this Africa alone. For they do not understand that no man is joined with Infidels, but he that commits the sins of Pagans, or else doth favour those that do such things, etc. And who hath fellowship with darkness, but he that by the darkness of his consent, forsaking Christ, doth follow Belial? Who puts his part with Insidels, but he which is partaker of that Infidelity? For that way he▪ ceaseth to be the Temple of God; neither otherways doth he join himself to Idols.  N. C. 
I am convinced of this. But may we not gather by proportion, that we ought to separate from the wicked sort of Christians though it be not here intended?  C. 
Hear what Mr. John Geree answers to this. No. 
Resolution of 10 Cases 1644.  All that can be inferred is, that we should avoid needless familiarity with the wicked, and all s ciety in sin: To keep them from the Sacrament if we can. But if it be not in our Power; not to omit the Sacrament, because they partake of it. In which he followed the resolution of St. Austin who immediately after the words before mentioned, adds these as my Author tells me; 
B. 2. against Parmen. cap. 18.  And they which are the Temples of the living God, and in the midst of a crooked and perverse Generation appear as lights in the world, having the word of life; nothing doth infect them, which they tolerate for Unities sake; nor are they penned up in any strait, because God doth dwell in them and walk in them. And they depart in the mean time out of the evil, and are separate, at least, in heart; lest haply while they would separate by the sedition of Schism, they should rather be spiritually separated from the good, than carporally from the bad. This old Divine also admonishes us very well out of the same. Father, that when the multitude of the Assemblies of the Church are free from that crime to which Excommunication is denounced, it is very healthful; and because so many avoid him▪ he will be stricken with fear, and healed through shame. But when the same sickness hath taken hold of very many, there remains nothing else to the good, but sorrow and be wailing; that so they may escape that destruction which is like to come on the multitude of the wicked. And in very deed, saith he, if the contagion of sinning hath invaded the multitude, the severe mercy of Divine discipline is necessary: but the counsel or enterprises of separation are both vain and pernicious, yea sacrilegious; because than they become both impious and proud; and give more trouble to the good which are weak, than they correct the sturdy ones who are evil. And concluding this point, he gives this Advice; Let a man therefore with Mercy correct what he can; and that which he cannot, let him bear with patience: And with love let him mourn and lament, until He from above do either redress and amend; or else differr until the harvest to root out the tares, and to winnow out the chaff. And here he alleges the example of St. Cyprian, that holy Martyr, who had been Bishop of Carthage, and describes the multitude as full of gross sins, yea many of his fellow Bishops as spotted with very foul crimes; but yet he communicated with them (though not in their sins which he evermore reprehended, yet) in the Sacraments and holy Worship of God. Nay, he shows that our Saviour himself did not separate in Body from the Pharisees and Saducees and multitude of common people, but met with them at the Temple: And it is also plain, that the African Church in St. Austin's days besides their evil manners, had some other blemishes which cannot be charged on ours; for by his own complaint it appears, there were such a multitude of Rites and Ceremonies then in use, that they were a very great burden, and the Church was oppressed and groaned under them. And therefore I think your preciseness in separating from us is more like the disdainful and proud Religion of the Scribes and Pharisees; than the humble and charitable purity of our blessed Saviour.  N. C. 
If you take these old Fathers for your Guides, they will lead you I now not whither. They held many strange Opinions.  C. 
I suppose you would separate from them too, if they were alive. But what think you of Mr. Calvin? He is a more modern Father, and you may think perhaps more enlightened; will you stand to his judgement?  N. C. 
Why? What says he?  C. 
He tells you, that, Wheresoever the Gospel is purely preached and the Sacraments administered according to the institution of Christ, there is the Church of God. 
Instit. Book 4. Cap. 1. Sect. 9  And if the very multitude hath and doth honour these; it deserves without doubt to be esteemed and judged a Church; because it is certain that these things are not without fruit. And if you look a little further to the next Section he repeats it again with much earnestness. 
Sect. 10.  There appears (in such a multitude as he mentioned before) neither a deceitful nor doubtful face of a Church: Of which no man may either despise the Authority, or refuse the Admonitions, or resist the Counsels, or mock at the Corrections; much less departed from it, break in sunder the Unity of it, and go unpunished. For the Lord so highly esteems the Communion of the Church that he counts him for a Traitorous Runaway, and forsaken of Religion, whosoever shall stubbornly estrange himself from any Christian fellowship; So that it be such a one as hath a true Ministry of the word and Sacraments. He so commends the Church's Authority, That when it is violated, he judges his own diminished. Do you hear this?  N. C. 
Yes. But—  C. 
To prevent all your exceptions, look further into the 12. Sect. and there he will tell you that the fellowship of such a Church is never to be cast off, though it swarm full of many faults. Yea, and there may be some faultiness crept into it in the Administration, either of Doctrine or of the Sacraments, yet it ought not to estrange us from the Communion of it. For all the Articles be not of one sort: And therefore we ought not rashly for every light dissension forsake the Church, etc. But then, in the next he tells you, that in bearing with the imperfections of life, our gentle tenderness ought to go much further. And in the next but one, that it is one thing to shun the private company of a wicked man; and another for hatred of such to forsake the Communion of the whole Church: Which is to be more rigorous than St. Paul. And although this temptation to forsake the Church may by an indiscreet zeal of righteousness, 
Sect. 16.  enter into the thought of a good man; yet we shall find that too much preciseness grows rather out of Pride, Disdainfulness, and false Opinion of holiness; than of true holiness and true zeal thereof. They that are bolder than others, and as it were the Standart-bearers to make any departing from the Church, for the most part do it upon no other cause, but their despising of all men, to boast themselves to be better than others. But I think I had best let the rest alone; lest you say I rail upon godliness (of which this Separation is now grown a great note) though in Mr. calvin's words.  N. C. 
We are not to mind what men say? Nor to have their persons in admiration.  C. 
No? Not what your own Ministers say? Sure their words are another Gospel with you, or else how come you so to misunderstand the old?  N. C. 
They are good men, and so we value what they say.  C. 
I'll show you then that they have said the very same in behalf of our Form of Divine Service, that I did the last time we talked together: And that they condemn this withdrawing from us, which Mr. Bridge makes the mark of a Saint.  N. C. 
Pray let it alone: It will be too long.  C. 
Let me tell you thus much: That they told their Brethren of New-England heretofore, that if we deny communion with such a Church as ours, there hath been no Church these 1400. years with which a Christian might lawfully join. Nay, 
Letter of many Ministers in Old England requesting the judgement of their Brethren in New Engl, concerning 9 Positions 1637. with their Answer 1639. And the Reply 1640: Published afterward by Mr. Simeon Ash, and Mr. W. Rathband, 1643.  that if such scruples as are now in your heads may take place, it will be unlawful to hold communion with any Society under Heaven: And that as for making an Idol of the Common Prayer (which by the way was a phrase they themselves made use of afterward) it might be as well said, that they made an Idol of their conceived Prayers. And therefore what evil spirit is it that now possesses so many of your Presbyterian Ministers, and hath driven them, as if they were out of their wits, from our Church, and their own Principles, and from all the Churches of Christ, that now are or ever were?  N. C. 
Pray do not say so.  C. 
They have granted me that for 1400. years there never was any Church, with which we might hold Communion if not with ours: And I will prove that there hath been none for these 1668. years.  N. C. 
You are strangely bold.  C. 
No bolder than Mr. Calvin; who will give you good satisfaction, if you read the Chapter to which I referred you, that the Church of the Jews in our Saviour's time, and the Apostolical Churches afterward, tolerated greater Vices in manners, and fouler Errors in Doctrine, than were in any Church from which in his days a separation was made. And I will show you distinctly, either now or when you will require it, that those Churches planted and watered by the Apostles, had those Corruptions in Doctrine, Worship, Manners, Discipline, and Government, which cannot be pretended to be in ours: And yet there was no separation of some Members from the rest: Nay, the Apostles, notwithstanding all these, speak very well in general of some They call them all Believers and Saints: And none knew then any other Men of the World, and unbelievers, but Pagans; such as did not acknowledge Jesus to be the Lord.  N. C. 
I am loath to give you so great a trouble. But I pray answer me one Scripture which seems to be against this; when it saith, The Apostles separated the Disciples, Act. 19.9.  C. 
Admirably argued! The Apostles, separated the Disciples from those that were not Disciples; and therefore we may separate Disciples from Disciples.  N. C. 
How say you?  C. 
The Apostles, I say, were sent to preach the Gospel and make Disciples to Christ, baptising them into his Name who believed on him. Those who would make profession of Christ they gathered into a new Church from among the Jews and Pagans who disowned him. And accordingly here in this City having won some to believe, and made them Christ's Disciples, they separated them from the rest of the Jewish Synagogue, who blasphemed Christ and would acknowledge no other Religion but that of Moses; to be a distinct Society by themselves, and no longer Members of the unbelieving Synagogue. From whence you would infer, that one Christian is to be separated from another Christian, and believers gathered from believers; if one part appear to us Pious, and the other Vicious: Which is just as if the Apostles, out of those few Disciples separated from the Jews, had made another lesser Church, separated from the rest of the Disciples.  N. C. 
I see my Error plainly: And shall remember hereafter if I can, not merely to nibble at the Scripture, as you called it, but take it altogether. But Mr. Bridge affrights us horribly with one place, which prophesies he says of the greatest separation in the latter days, that ever was. It is in the Revelation, where the Spirit cries, Come out of her my people, that you be not partaker of her sins. There shall be the greatest separation, and that provokes the Antichristian party; as his words are, p. 179. of the Book before mentioned.  C. 
I remember them very well, Rev. 18.4. But do you still take Mr. Bridge for a Prophet? Have I not shown you what a rare Seer he is in the Revelation?  N. C. 
I have heard others beside him mention this place. Mr. Case I remember gave us this reason to hope that God would be gracious to England, 
England's Encouragement to wait on God, p. 69.  and that Babylon should shortly fall; because he had begun with such a distinct and audible voice from Heaven, to call his people out of Babylon, saying, Come out of her my people, etc. Rev. 18.4. her Idolatrous bowings, cringings, Altars, Crosses, and cursed Ceremonies, false Worship, false Doctrine.  C. 
You need say no more; I have it perfectly in mind as well as you. And you were wont I know, in those days to believe that they knew the designs of Heaven, as well as if they had been Counsellors of State in that kingdom: And conceived the News they told you of what was coming, as sure and certain, as if they had lain in the Bosom of St. John as he did in our Saviour's. But I hope by this time you are convinced they were only drowsy dreamers, that knew nothing of his Mind: And see that they are but like a poor Mouse which having but one hole, is easily caught. Babylon, Babylon was all they had to say then, and thither they run now. These are the Magical sounds, whereby they would astonish you: The Mystical words whereby they practise all their Sorceries upon you. Stop but your ears against these, and you are free from their Enchantments; for they can never prove that the Church of England is this Babylon from whence his people are called, or that she hath taken so much as one sip, or kissed the Cup of her Fornications.  N. C. 
I never asked them, indeed, to prove this.  C. 
No, You took it very lovingly upon their word: And ran after those whom you fancied and were enamoured of, with an implicit Faith; as if you had tasted too deep of the Cup yourselves. If you did but hear them say, Mystery, Mystery, (the very word you know in the forehead of the whore) presently you bowed to them, and thought you were under the teachings of an infallible Spirit. And you remember I suppose very well, that those two and all the rest of the Ministers that were wont to preach before the Parliament, and in the greatest Congregations, generally chose their texts out of the Old-Testament, seldom out of the New, unless it were the Revelation.  N. C. 
What of that?  C. 
By which means they furnished themselves in an abundant measure with such Comparisons, as did them admirable service. They could easily contrive it so, that they might seem such a select number as the Jews, the peculiar people of God; and we like the Egyptians, and Babylonians, or what other accursed Nation they pleased. And so applying all those places which spoke of them, to us and our times; they excited in you the same hatred against us that was in the Jews against those Nations; and made you think it as necessary to separate from us, as for the Jews to come out of Babylon. Nay by a wonderful Art, or prodigious Enchantment rather (which argues your great dulness) they first raised your fancies, put words into your mouths, and taught you to expect all that they had a mind should shortly come to pass; and then they made the expectation they had wrought in you an argument that it should come to pass. Thus I remember one of your Divines encouraged the Parliament to expect the overthrow of Babylon, because said he, the General talk throughout the Household among the Domestics is, 
Mr. H. Wilkinson. Sermon upon Zach. 18.19. pag. 21.  that Christ their King is coming to take possession of his Throne. This they not only whisper, but speak publicly. Now you know before Kings go to a place, their purpose is first known among the Domestic Servants, and talked of within doors first, and then abroad, and Harbingers prepare the way. This hath been the news throughout the household, and Harbingers have been sent abroad: It is a sign that he is not far off; it will not be long before be come.  N. C. 
Cannot you repeat a sentence without laughing?  C. 
If you had not been very gross you would have either laughed or been angry at those that did not see or would not take notice of the cheat. How came you, I beseech you, to whisper this and afterward talk it abroad, that Christ was coming to sit upon his Throne? Had you any Revelation of it? Did you that are his Domestics hear Christ the King say so? Or were you not told so by these pretended Favourites of his, and believed them without ask whence they had the News?  N. C. 
Undoubtedly we never thought of it, till we heard it preached and proclaimed by them.  C. 
And then when your heads were filled with this conceit, and they had set your tongues a going, and made this the general Talk; they asked you (if you were apt to despond) Why do you doubt of it? Be of good cheer; without question he is not far off; for otherwise you would never have talked so much of his coming. Which was no more in plain English than this; you would never have believed us, if it were not so. Were not these rare devices to support the people's confidence? And were not the people very blind that could not discern this foul Imposture? Never talk now of the Sottishness of the multitude in the Romish Church; for they are cozened by neater Legerdemains than this. Which is just as if I should entertain a Child a long time with hopes of Plums and fine Toys coming from some Fair: and when he began to doubt of it, should tell him; thou hast talked of them so long my Child, that without question they will be here by and by; How is it possible that thou shouldest be in such expectation of them, if they were not at hand?  N. C. 
No more words: You have said enough to make a Child understand the delusion.  C. 
And yet you suffered yourselves to be wheedled and cheated thus over and over again: as if you would cross the Apostles rule, and be Men in Malice, but Children in understanding: You heard your Ministers pray, for instance, that Babylon might fall, and the walls of Jerusalem be built. And then you heard them stirring you up with the greatest vehemence to give God no rest till Jerusalem was made a praise in the Earth. And when they had set you all on fire with these desires, than you were very well contented to be made believe, it was a certain sign God would do the business, because he had put it into your hearts to be so earnest for it. How is it possible said they, that there should be such a spirit of grace and supplication poured suddenly on the Nation, if Christ were not coming down after it? Since God hath knit the hearts of his people in such a Holy Conspiracy as it were to besiege Heaven with their Prayers, all is not to be given for lost. God 
a Mr. Case, Engl. Encouragement to wait on God, p. 77.  hath taken off the bridle of restraint from the lips of his people. 
Pag. 78.  The Prayers of God's people are gone up to Heaven in great Assemblies, and have surrounded the Throne of Grace: God was never so tempted to bow the Heavens and come down to the rescue of his People. 
c Pag. 79.  God will bow down his ears to them: if they cannot come to God, he will cause his ear to come down to them; He will make hard shift (as it were) to hear, rather than their prayers be lost. 
d Pag. 80. .  N. C. 
You make me blush to think how we have been gulled.  C. 
So you will be still. And it is no wonder they make so bold with you; since they were so bold with God and with his holy Word; which they drew to be instrumental in the Cheat. They sanctified every design with some text of Scripture or other, and with many prayers: tili they had defaced the certainty of Holy Writ; and made no other thing of it than a Nose of Wax, which may be turned any way as will serve our purposes 
* Mr. Knew stubs against the Heresy of N. N. pag. 61.  You need not be angry: they are the words of one esteemed here tofore; though I know not what thoughts you would have of him, or he of you, if he lived now. If I may pass my conjecture, I think he would take you to be the very spawn of those Brownists, which were so justly detested in those days, For he would hear the same words and phrases out of your mouths now, which he heard in those days from theirs, who cried out upon an Idol Church, and Idol Ministry, an Idol Government: And, as if they were sure to carry the cause by these outcries, they never ceased to pour out these Accusations, wherewith the people were terribly affrighted. For they poor souls never considered that if all were granted that such words import, it would not prove a separation should be made from our Assemblies. For in what sense can a Minister be said to be an Idol, but in such an one as the people of England were called so, by one of you?  N. C. 
What sense should that be?  C. 
I'll repeat his words if you please; which you may find in a Book put forth on purpose to prevent a Peace between the King and Parliament, 
Plain English, pag. 27. 1643.  upon any terms than such, as should make the King yield to all their desires. We have long pretended zeal (saith that Author) against Idolatry, when in the mean time we are all become one Idol. We have eyes and fee not an Army of Papists, not only with permission allowed to use their own Religion, but with Commission appointed (in event) to destroy ours. We have Ears and hear not the continual Blasphemies against our God, the reproaches and standers against our Parliament. It cannot indeed be said we have mouths and speak not; for they that do least, commonly speak most: But I am sure I may say we have Feet and march not; hands have we, and handle not the Sword and Shield.  N. C. 
You love still to be rubbing these old sores, as I told you once.  C. 
Not I But I love to rub up your memory, that you may reflect how your beloved phrases are applied to all purposes; and see that an Idol Minister can signify nothing, but one that doth no more of the work of a Minister, than the people, it seems, did of your work of fight against the King; till they were alarmed by such clamours as these, and afraid to be thought Idolaters, or an Idol-people. In short, he is such a person as the Shepherds of Israel were, when they neglected their Office, and took no care of the flock committed to their trust: From whom notwithstanding the People of Israel were not to withdraw, nor to renounce all communion with them, and obedience to them. But besides this I would have you know, that if there be any Ministers among us that are but like Idols and Images of men: there are those (and thanks be to God good store) who hear and see and speak, and do the will of God, in the places where they are set.  N. C. 
I am convinced of all this.  C. 
But I pray once more observe whether all such Writers and Preachers as Mr. Bridge and the rest of the separation in which you are engaged, do not take more pains to prove the danger of Idolatry and the heinousness of the sin; than to tell you what Idolatry is, and to prove that it is Idolatry to join with us. Their way always was to prove little and to accuse stoutly; to declaim loudly, and not to reason; to terrify the people by a dreadful sound of words and raise great passions in them; not to inform their judgements what they are to do and what to avoid. And for that purpose nothing hath ever done them better service than Babylon, and Egypt, and the Golden Calves, and Idol Ministers, Idol Service and such like words of no certain and determinate meaning. And to say the truth, in this, (as Mr. Can himself could not but observe a great while ago) consists a great difference between Christ's institutions, and men's inventions: Whatsoever God will have us do or not do, he lays down the same openly, precisely, manifestly, but when Satan speaks by his Instruments, he speaks so ambiguously and cloakedly, that one knows not how to take it, nor which way to apply it 
* So I find his words cited in Mr. J. Balls book against him, pag. 88  Which if you will but apply (as Mr. Ball told him) to your own manner of disputing and alleging testimonies, It will discover your-selves to be the deceivers; who affect ambiguous and equivocal speeches, and seek by mists and fogs of strange and unusual arguments, and sentences wrist to a contrary sense, to blind the eyes and puzzle the understandings of the simple. For you hid yourselves under the terms of false Church, false ☞ Ministry, false Prophets, false Worship, flying from Idolatry, taking heed of Idols, etc. which you have taken up in a peculiar sense, and running along in that strain you pervert the Scriptures, wrong Authors, confound things to be distinguished, dispute sophistically; and while you boast of clear proofs, divine precepts, examples and practices of Forefathers, etc. you only raise a dust to dazzle the eye. For let the matter be looked into, and you have neither divine Precept, nor Example of godly Forefathers to justify your separation. What you teach hath been condemned in Schools, cried down in Sermons, disallowed in all the Churches of the Saints from the very beginning to this day.  N. C. 
You are heated now to some purpose.  C. 
It is better you should blame my zeal, than I blame my own chillness; and I had rather a great deal be condemned of some violence, than of a lazy indifference in these matters. For who is there that values his Religion, and reuerences the Sacred Scriptures, that can hear them thus abused, and not have his spirit stirred in him?  N. C. 
There are those who think they smell something else that stirs the spirits of your Ministers.  C. 
What should that be?  N.C. 
Envy and Anger that any men should be liked better than themselves. It troubles them to see any body leave their Churches and follow our Ministers; because they would not be thought less able than they. And it's possible their congregations may be thin, when so many have withdrawn themselves from them.  C. 
There is an old saying, that No man ever sought another in the Oven, who had not been there before himself. Had not your Preachers been heretofore tickled with the sight of full Congregations and the fancy of having many followers; they could never think Multitudes and thronged Assemblies (which many do not want) so necessary to the contentment of any man of worth among us. And were not you intolerably proud and conceited of yourselves, this imagination could never have entered into your heads, that it dejects our Ministers to want your company. What are you that they should tremble to hear you say in a threatening manner, We will never hear him more? Are you the only men of Wisdom; the sole Beauty of Christian Assemblies? Is all their labour lost, if you be not there to commend it? Are the rest of the people no better than the walls and the seats? Speak man: Is it a great courtesy to a Minister that you will be pleased to hear him? Must he think himself beholden to you that you vouchsafe him your presence? Nay take it for an honour that you come and help to make a numerous Auditory; in which you shine, as the precious stones in a Ring? O prodigious Vanity! I have heard indeed that some of your Ministers made low reverences to you and studied to humour you, as if they thought you deserved much of them for honouring their Assemblies; but I know none of that mind: If you will not come to hear them; you may stay away, and I wonder who will have the worse of it, you or they?  N. C. 
If they are not concerned in this, why do they keep such a stir about Separation? Cannot they let the people do as they will, and say nothing? To what purpose is it to make so great a noise about such little things?  C. 
How say you, little things? Hear Mr. J. Ball I beseech you (a person whom you reverence, I suppose) who tells you in another Book of his; 
Trial of the grounds of separation Epistle to the Reader.  that how small soever the things in themselves may seem to be, the evil consequences that follow thereupon be both many and great. It is no small matter to bury that under the condemnation of false worship (as Mr. Bridge doth) which the Lord the Author of all Truth, the Determiner of his true pleasing and acceptable worship, doth allow in his service. It is no small offence to forsake the prayers of the Congregation, to departed from the Table of the Lord, when he calls to feast with himself; and to break off Society and communion with the Church of Christ, to fill the hearts of weak Christians with doubts and distractions, as not knowing what to do, or what way to take; to spend time in reasonings and dispute of this kind which might much more profitably be employed in the practice of Repentance and holy obedience; to expose Religion to contempt, and the truth of God to reproach among them that delight to speak evil. These are sad effects of this Separation which I oppose: Which tends not (as he speaks in his Answer to Can,) to the overthrow of Antichrist, but to the renting of the Church, the disgrace of Religion, the advancement of Pride, Schism, and contention, the offence of the weak, the grief of the Godly who are better settled, the hardening of the wicked, and the Recovery or rising of Antichristianism. As for other evils (which he mentions not) such as the alienation or abatement of affection even where there is the nearest bond of Society; and the souring of men's minds towards their Governors, in whom they cannot so hearty rejoice as they ought, while they take them to be the imposers of Idolatrous Ceremonies, or sinful worship; I will not discourse of them neither: Not because they are light matters; but because I have many things to add and would not be too tedious.  N. C. 
I remember something in Mr. Ball to this purpose, and I confess it affected me then, and made me fearful to fall into the separation: Especially because of another sad effect which was usually observed in those days to follow these Divisions, among the people of your Persuasion.  C. 
What is that?  N. C. 
I heard some say, that when men saw those who were so well conceited of their own knowledge, sincerity and piety above others; mistake so grossly, and be so rigidly precise, as to make that Sin, which God never made so; they fell into dislike even of all the Good that was in them: And discerning how little reason they had for this strictness, presently imagined they had as little for the strictness of their lives and conversation in all other matters.  C. 
They told you the truth, and you should consider it now. There is nothing more difficult than to sever good and evil when they are mixed together. The good is frequently rejected by some for the Evit's sake; and the evil received by others for the sake of the good. Men are wont either to like or dislike all that they see in those of whom they conceive a good or ill Opinion. They that love the Piety of some Ministers, fall in love also with their Preciseness; and they that hate their Preciseness, may fall into hatred of their Piety.  N. C. 
I am glad you will allow any thing that I say.  C. 
Did you think me of so perverse a humour, as to shut my eyes against the light of the Sun, because an Enemy opens the Windows to let it in? I will ever embrace and justify a truth, come it from whom it will: And I pray know once for all, that I do not approve of those who out of hatred to the superstition of your people, brand all that are of strict and Holy Lives, with the Name of Presbyterian, Fanatic or some such like. But it would do well if you would consider, that which was the occasion of this discourse; how much hurt you do by being so rigid where there is no need. This tempts inconsiderate people on the one side to think it is but needless scrupulosity that makes you careful in other things which Christ indeed hath tied us unto: at least they will put off your reproofs for their Debaucheries, by accusing you of more preciseness than you have reason for. And on the other side; you observing the unexcusable looseness of some that are enemies to your superstition; are tempted thereby to strengthen yourselves the more in it, and to stand the more stiffly in your separation from us. So that both sides are the worse for these differences, and increase their evil humours by these oppositions.  N. C. 
I cannot contradict you in this.  C. 
I must tell you one thing more. While men on both sides have by their contentions and hatreds gone farther and farther one from the other; they have fallen at last into most fearful Extremities. On your part, some have proceeded to that degree of detestation, as to condemn us of Idolatry and Antichristianism, and have fallen not only into all the dregs of Brownism and Anabaptism, but into the dotages of the Quakers, and the men of the fifth Kingdom. And on our part, some have drawn so far from you, as to fall back into Popery, perhaps into Atheism, at least indifference about Religion; which are diseases too frequent also among yourselves. If therefore the credit of Religion (as Mr. Ball again speaks) the Glory of God, the Souls of our Brethren be dear to us, What can we do less than by a just defence of the Truth, seek the reclaiming of such as are gone astray, the establishing of them that are weak in judgement, but zealously affected to the ways of God; stop the stream of seducing, free the Godly from unjust imputations, settle peace and unity in the Truth among Brethren; I may add, to keep the whole Nation, if it be possible, from such dangerous precipies as they are drawing towards.  N. C. 
I hope you have a good meaning: But you should consider that I and the Presbyterians are not withdrawn to such a distance from you, as you say some are. We do not separate from the Congregations as Antichristian, nor think that you are not the Churches of Jesus Christ; which was the error of the Brownists and such like Schisntaticks.  C. 
You should have added, of Mr. Bridge and the rest of his partakers as I have plainly shown you: and I wish I could not say of some Presbyterians too, who once abhorred such rents as they have now made. For what did they mean to call us Babylon so oft, if they would not have the people think (whatsoever they thought themselves) that we were Antichristian? Expound to me all the passages already mentioned; particularly that of Mr. Case just now cited: Tell me what you think of the distinct and audible voice from heaven which they heard to call you to come out of Babylon. Why did he make the war between the King and You, 
Engl. Encouragements. Pag. 106.126.  to be the battle between Michael and his Angels, and the Dragon and his? and the peace which some wished and was sometime hoped; a combounding of the business between Christ and Antichrist? Tell me, if you say true, why they took the liberty to tell you, That when Episcopacy and Liturgy were restored in Scotland, 
Preface to the Book of Discipline.  than Will-worship and damnable Idolatry was set up? And to pass by the speeches of your railing Vicars, why did Mr. Fr. Woodcock (in his Lectures at St. Laurence before named) call the Bishops and their Partakers I cannot tell how oft, the Popish faction, the Antichristian faction, the Antichristian party who slew the witnesses, i. e. suspended and silenced some Ministers for not conforming to the Laws? Lastly, why were these Lectures Ordered to be printed; and every Pulpit suffered to sound with such like language? If all these things were said in heat, the better to stir up the people's passions; say so, and we have done. You shall never hear a syllable of the late times from me; if you do but ingenuously confess your rashness, and humble yourselves for these and such like faults. Or if any of you were then of the mind that Episcopacy was Antichristian (as it is affirmed in the view of the Covenant, p. 34.) a Limb or Claw of the Beast, as the Brownists-phrase was, but now are of another opinion; let us know it, that we may rejoice in the change. Wise men sometimes change Opinions and Counsels, though Fools do not. And they will change for the better as Mr. Bridge hath done for the worse. For there was a time when he and his Brethren made this Declaration before God and all the world concerning the English Churches, In which, say they, through the grace of God we were converted; that all that Conscience of the Defilements we conceived to cleave to the True Worship of God in them, 
Apologet. Narration 1643. pag. 6.  or of the unwarrantable power in Church-governors exercised therein, did neper work in any of us any other Thought, much less Opinion; but that multitudes of the Assemblies and Parechial Congregations thereof were the true Churches and Body of Christ, and the Ministry thereof a true Ministry; much less did it ever enter into our hearts to judge them Antichristian. Why they should say Multitude, and not all since they had the same form of Divine service and were under the same Government, I know not; for it cannot be meant of such. Churches where the Ministers were chosen by the People, which were but few. Nor am I concerned to know the sense of those words; but I would gladly know if they please, why they cannot now see multitudes of such Churches; and by what new light or Revelation Mr Bridge hath discovered our Worship and Churches to be Antichristian, from which the Saints must come forth and separate themselves. Or rather (for now you would have me speak to you alone) why so many Prosbyterians withdraw themselves from our Prayers and Sacraments and hold separate Assemblies in opposition to ours? You do not make your cause the better but the worse by this acknowledgement, that you do not departed from us as no true Churches of Jesus Christ: and stand condemned by your own declared Principles, and all the writings of your Forefathers. To forsake the true Churches of Christ saith Mr J. Goodwin himself) and the Ministry thereof, where men have been converted and built up, 
Letter to Mr. Thomas Good. win from Mr. Jo. Goodwin before he turned Independent.  and have converted and built up so many, with the setting up of new Churches, against the leave and will of the Civil Magistrate, without the consent of those Churches departed from, and to the seandal and grief of so many godly Manisters and Christians, nay the scandal of all reformed Churches; and this under the pretence of spiritual power and liberty purchased for them by Christ, had need have a clear and full proof, and not be built only upon such weak & slight grounds, as flattering similitudes, witty allusions, remote consequences, 0 strained and forced interpretations from hard and much controverted Scriptures. What clear proofs he afterward sound I cannot tell, but when he had rend himself even from the Presbyterian Churches, he could not but give this Honourable Testimony to ours; 
* Zion Coll. visited.  That Travellers from all parts confirmed, that there was more of the Truth and power of Religion in England under the late Prelatical Government, than in all the Reformed Churches besides. Therefore I must beseech you again to consider what solid grounds you have for forsaking such a Church as this; which hath been the Mother of so many pious souls, and extorted such praises even from those undutiful children, who out of I know not what humour, lift up their heel against her. What spot do you spy in her now, which you could not discern heretofore? Or if there be any, what soul Monster should it be that thus affrights you, if indeed we be not the Beast, nor any limb of him? You that profess so much tenderness of Conscience, should rather methinks, be horribly afraid, since you think we are a Church still united to Christ, lest by separating from us, you cut yourselves off from him, and run in time to the greatest extremities, and utterly renounce and disown us. For as Mr. Ball hath well observed, They that have once broken off from us, have run from one error into another, after the fond imagination of their heart, till they have dashed themselves against the Rocks. And indeed how can you expect it should be other wise. There is but one Body, the Church; but one Lord or Head of the Body, Christ: Whosoever separates from the Body therefore, separates from Christ in that respect. And if we withdraw ourselves from him where he graciously invites us to feast with him may we not justly fear he will withdraw himself from us, and make us seek when we shall not find him? This voluntary separation from the Lords, Table and the Prayers of the Congregation, is a willing excommunication of ourselves from the Visible tokens of the Lords presence and Love. And if it be a grievous sin in Church Governors to deprive any Member of the Church of all Communion with the Visible Church upon light and unnecessarv occasions, is it not a greater sin in the Members to deprive themselves of the same Communion upon the like or less occasions? Without all doubt, this sin will be punished with blindness of mind if you persist in it. Such offenders having run (as I am able to prove) from one thing to another with the greatest confidence, till they came to think themselves inspired and full of the Holy-Ghost, even when they railed and reviled all other Churches: And when those heats sailed, to think that all Religion was a mere Hypocondriacal Delusion. This Mr. Calvin assured you long ago would be the fate of Separatists from such a Church as Ours; Because they dissolve (saith he) the sacred Bond of Unity; no man shall escape this just punishment of his divorce, that he shall intoxicate himself with the most pestilent errors, and most foul dotages. Nay, your own Ministers could admonish you heretofore; that when Religion either by choice or force is propagated in Corners, 
Advertisement upon Phil. 1.1. before the Annot on the Bible 1645.  many Heretical Doctrines are hatched and preached, and afterward, it may be, printed too; which had not been conceived nor divulged, if the Authors of them had continued in the society of public Assemblies. And therefore you; methinks, above all other men should dread the sad effects of this new separatition; as much as those men do the Sea, who feel themselves yet wet, and come forth dropping from a wreck. Remember your own sad complaints and Lamentations, the Shrieks and the Cries, which are yet fresh in our ears; Remember what Rocks you dashed against when you had once forsaken our Company and broken the Bond of Unity. Call to mind how many perished; and in what danger all were to be lost. Did you not pray the five Brethren to consider in the beginning of the Storm, that in their Churchway into, which many were running, there would be no end of Schisms: But every two or three members if they pleased might set up a Church by themselves? Witness the rent in that Church where Mr. Bridge and Mr. Sympson were teachers at Rotterdam. Where Mr. Sympson, 
Antapologia. p. 29. p. 117.  as Mr. Edward's informs us, having only a Merchant and his Wife, joining with him at the first, separated from Mr. Bridge and set up a new Church of their own: Of which a Woman (Mrs. White) was the soundress as Mr. Bridge himself hath said. And when they were thus torn in sunder, both parts of the Division fell together by the cars among themselves. There was a new rent in Mr. sympson's company, and Mr. Ward, colleague to Mr. Bridge, was deposed from his Ministry and office by Mr. Bridge his Church, for some frivolous differences. And such was the bitterness, revile and reproaches expressed in the letters that passed between them, that the Readers ears would tingle should he hear them. In short, the Jews and the Samaritans were not greater Enemies, than these were one to another; as my Author affirms.  N. C. 
Mr. Edward's you mean.  C. 
Yes and I hope you think him a good one now, as you did heretofore. If not, I can justify what he says out of a learned Dutch writer if you please.  N. C. 
I am not much concerned about this.  C. 
But you are concerned to keep in mind these scandals in separate Congregations. And it will do you no hurt, I am sure, to reflect a great deal farther back; and consider what work the ancient Separatists of our Nation made in the same Country: Johnson and Ainsworth fell out at Amsterdam, and their Congregation was divided into two, one of which excommunicated the other. The two Jonson's also, though Brethren in nature as well as Religion, fell into such a fiery contention upon a small occasion, that George the younger, became a Libeler and loaded his Brother and others, with many reproaches, and that in Print; to remain for ever. The Elder broke fellowship with him and with his own Father (who took part with George and curfed the other with all the curses in God's Book) and this breach was confirmed by the heavy sentence of Excommunication, and both Father and Brother delivered up to the Devil. But then at Leiden, J. Smith condemned them all, and accused them of Idolatry; telling them that their Constitution was as very a Harlot as either her Mother England, or Grandmother Rome; and that the Separation was the youngest and fairest daughter of Rome the Harlot. The reason was, because they looked into their Bible's when they preached, and into the Psalter when they sung; For the Holy Scriptures, he said, were not to be retained as helps before the eyes in time of worship, and particularly that it was unlawful to have a Book before them in singing of Psalms. Besides, their Government he thought was Antichristian; because they joined to Pastors, other Doctors and Rectors, which was an human invention. And so he fell to the Anabaptists; where he made also a new sect, by baptising himself if you please to have some of his words, perhaps they may be useful to you; When Popish prelacy, saith he, was suppressed, and the Triformed Prebytery (viz. Pastors, Teachers, and Elders) substituted; 
In his Book called, the Differences of the Churches of the Sepation.  one Antichrist was put down, and another set up in his place: or the Beast was suppressed and his Image advanced. And therefore, as they that submit to the Prelacy are subject to that woe of Worshipping the Beast; so they that submit to the Triformed Presbytery, are in like manner liable to that woe, denounced against them that worship the Image of the Beast.  N. C. 
I perceive what you are going to say: you would have me mark again, how every Party paint their Opposites in the shape of this ugly Beast; to terrify simple people with it, as we do children with Bug-bears.  C. 
And whosoever reads and considers these things will be, I think, of old Mr. Bernard's mind who told this Nation threescore years ago, that * it is better to endure Corruptions in a Church, 
Mr. R. Bern. Plain Evidences, Ann. 1610. p. 6.  than be turmoiled with such Distractions, and to be brought into such Confusions: even a Babel of Languages, of Opinions, of Assemblies, of Governing; of Government and what not. It is a blessing to be Well; but a greater blessing to know it, and so to abide. For besides other Separations which I could tell you of, the issue and result of all was this; the decay of all true piety, and a turning all Religion into wrangling, censuring, and condemning one another. For, as all that have declined to that Schism (mark it I beseech you, if the character do not concern some of you) are found to be exceeding proud, 
Consutation of the separatist agreed upon long since by the joint consent of many Non-conformists Ministers, published by Mr. W. Rathband, 1644. part. 4. p. 62  and disdainful towards all that are contrary-minded; Yea, even such as (before they were infected with that leven) were patterns of all love, modesty and humility to others: So will they not acknowledge nor reverence any of the most excellent graces that God hath given to any of his servants among us, nor so much respect them, as the very Papists will do. No, they profess greater detestation and despite to the most godly and most sincere men among us, than they do to such as are most notorious in Profaneness and Malice to the Truth. And a Divine, more ancient than these, gave this remarkable Description of the fruits produced by separate Congregations. Look upon the people, saith he, and you shall see very many who not regarding the chief Christian Virtues and Godly Duties; as namely to be meek, to be patiented, to be lowly, to be full of love and mercy, to deal uprightly and justly, to guide their families in the fear of God with wholesome Instructions, 
Mr. G. Gyfford's plain Declaration in which he undertakes not to vindicate every thing in our Church, but that there was no sufficient cause of separation, An. 1590.  and to stand fast in the calling in which God hath set them; give themselves wholly to this, even as if it were, the Sum and Pith of Religion, namely, to argue and talk continually against matters in the Church, against Bishops and Ministers, and one against another on both sides. Some are proceeded to this that they will come to the Assemblies to hear Sermons and Prayers of the Preacher, but not to the Prayers of the Book: which I take to be a more grievous sin than many do suppose. But yet this is not the worst; For sundry are gone further and fallen into a damnable Schism; and the same, so much the more fearful and dangerous, in that many do not see the Foulness of it: but rather hold them as godly Christians; and but a little over-shot in some matters. Which words I have the rather recited, that you may see what thoughts the most moderate men heretofore had concerning the 0 way into which you are falling.  N. C. 
Truly, I can scarce see for what end you have told me all these old stories.  C. 
That's strange! I was admonishing you of the care that you should take above all others, not to run into these dangerous paths: Who have not only heard all these things from those before us, but also seen with your eyes, and felt by dear experience, the great swarms of Sects and Heresies that have come out of separate Congregations; and the miserable havoc they have made of all true Religion and Godliness. Now what security I beseech you, have any of you, that the Congregations you begin to draw from us, apart to yourselves; shall not break in time into as many little fractions, and produce these bitter fruits which I have mentioned? What charm, what power have you to keep out this evil Spirit, which always haunted the separation? All the Authority which your Ministers may think they have, hath no foundation but the Passions of the common people. It depends for the most part on the fancies of rude Artisans, and Ignorant Mechanics. These will make their Divinity for them; and they must still be inventing new conceits to entertain their Imaginations. They are servants to such a world of Masters, that it is evident they have reason to fear their own side, as much as ours. And when they have done all they can, they are liable to be thought Impostors, as oft as any man thinks he is taught of God, and hath a new light shining into his mind. Then shall you see again all those wild fancies fly about which are now in great measure fallen to the ground. Old England may become as mad as the New: And such a woman as Mrs. Hutchinson, that shall take upon her to repeat your Sermons as she did those of Mr. Cottons; may be more cried up than all the Ministers you have.  N. C. 
It is impossible.  C. 
That which hath been done more than once, may be done again. For the Wine of Separation (as two New-England Ministers call it) hath such a spirit in it, as flies up furiously into men's heads, and works with a restless violence there. It burries them headlong, 
Mr. Allin and Mr. Shepherd's Defence of nine Positions. p 27.  as they speak, to strange distances; that in separating from public, they separate from private; in separating from corrupt Churches (as no Churches) they separate from the purest even those of their own; in separating from pollutions in God's Ordinances, at last they fall to the storming of some, if not the utter renouncing of all the Ordinances themselves. For when rash and sudden men, are grown Masters of their Consciences; it troubles not them from whom they divide, nor whither they run in separate ways. At the very next step they are under the Ministration of the Spirit, as the Phrase was in the late times. They live upon Pure and Naked God in themselves, unclothed of Flesh and Form. They are risen and caught up out of the Flesh into Spirit, out of Form into Power, out of Type into Truth, out of Shadow into Substance, out of the Sign into the thing Signified. And so they drink wine new in the Kingdom, even new in the Kingdom; not in the Oldness of the Letter, but in the Newness of the Spirit.  N. C. 
I remember how this Wine, as you call it, wrought in the late times, and there are none fie more than we to think of the spiritual madness that then raged. And I assure you we bewail and lament with many tears our present Divisions; and have kept as many days as there are weeks in the year to seek the Lord for the healing of our sad breaches.  C. 
To what purpose is that, as long as you keep them wide open, by withdrawing yourselves from the public Assemblies of God's people? You had better spare all that breath; for it is as ridiculous, as if a man should cry and roar under the smart of a wound, and yet would not keep himself from raking in it continually with his nails. Why do you not use the means of Union if you truly desire it? What is the cause you follow not such Christian Counsel as I made bold the last time to leave with you? That would be more effectual than all those Fasts and Prayers, which in truth serve only to continue the Division and keep our Wounds gaping. For they are the very things, as you use them, which make the Schism and yet they persuade the people, that you are not too blame, but the Bishops only.  N. C. 
O Sir, that you would but lay the Saddle upon the right Horse. You load us with many accusations, but the Bishops are in fault who will not remove the subject of these contentions. If you were not partial you would admonish them, as well as us: And tell them they ought not to stand so precisely upon indifferent things, and alter nothing. This would be a short way to remedy all our evils, to take away the things which are offensive to the weak, and so become inconvenient, if not unlawful. And you know who said, that Contentious retaining of Customs is a turbulent thing as Innovations. Why do you not put them in mind of these things, but spend your time only in telling us our Duty?  C. 
I am not so well conceited of myself as to think I am alike able to judge, what is convenient, and what is lawful. For it requires not only great understanding in the nature of things, but also in the nature and temper of men, in the state of affairs at home and abroad; together with diligent and long observation, and indeed all the perfections of a prudent Governor; to be able to determine what is most expedient for a Church or State: But every Christian may soon resolve or receive satisfaction about what is sinful, or permitted to him. Besides, were I never so skilful, I should not have the confidence (to which it seems you are arrived) to instruct my superiors: It is enough for me to deal with my equals. Though modest proposals and humble desires without any noise and stir, I presume, would never be disliked from any of us: And had you always taken that course from the beginning, it had been better for you: But you were ever for assertions and positions (as my Lord Bacon long ago observed) and filled all the Nation, as much as you could, with displeasure against their Governors; and taught them to esteem the compounding of controversies to savour of man's Wisdom and human Policy.  N. C. 
No, we are now for an Accommodation.  C. 
You do well to put in that word now, for it was ever other ways heretofore, and Books were written against it (as I will show you if you desire it) when you hoped to carry all before you. And it is a great argument of your headiness and passion (to say no more) that when you had power to accommodate Differences you would not; and now you cry out for it, when it is neither in your power nor ours. For why do you say the Bishops should remove out of the way the things that trouble you? Have they power to alter laws and change them at their pleasure? Are not they bound up and tied to obedience as well as yourselves? All that they can do is but to join their Votes together with many other, to settle that Religion which is sound and good, it being the foundation of all Laws and the common bond of human Society: And when it is established to take the same care that it be preserved from sudden and unnecessary alterations in any thing belonging to it; which are always dangerous not only to Religion, but to the Civil Peace. Now since it is plain they judge it not fit to promote a change because of some men's dislike, and none ought to be desired, in my poor judgement, against the Opinion and without the consent of our Spiritual Governors; who have more Wisdom, and not less Piety sure than we, what have you and I to do but to seek peace and unity some other way without alterations? A Schism you see is most pernicious, and like to prove most deadly to all Religion—  N. C. 
Let me interpose one thing which I forgot before. We are not form into Churches, and so do not make a strict separation from you as others do.  C. 
So much the greater danger of all the mischiefs before mentioned: That men should grow wild and mad when they are at such liberty, and under no government but their own fancies. This your Ministers cannot but understand well enough: And therefore must either come to us, or cast you into a great many little bodies by yourselves.  N C. 
I wish hearty we were united to the main Body of your Church.  C. 
I am glad to hear you say so. But if you would have your wishes accomplished, you must contribute with all your power to the ending our quarrels, by studying those things that make for peace. Do not talk of the Duty of your Governors, but think seriously of your own. And since it is manifest, as I told you, that they judge it not meet to promote any alteration of that which hath been so long settled; and since it is granted by so many of you, that the things enjoined by Law are not unlawful, and by so many of us they are thought not to be convenient; leave these earnest endeavours to alter the Laws, and alter yourselves.  N. C. 
What would you have us do?  C. 
I would have you settle yourselves (and not be thus wavering) in this persuasion, that it is lawful to join with us in the Worship of God, as now established: And then resolve that it belongs only to those, to determine of the Conveniency of things, who have power to do what they best like, and wisdom and judgement to weigh all circumstances and make choice of the best course: And that if they mistake, their error shall not be imputed to you, who have nothing to do in such matters. After this, weigh seriously and often, the great mischiefs of Separation, which far exceed all the Inconveniences which can be fancied in all our Ceremonies. And then your Ministers must endeavour to make their acquaintance and followers of this belief; and confirm them in it by coming to the Common-Prayer, and informing them that all the ancient Puritans (as they were called) did not hold it unlawful to join with with us, but the contrary; to separate from us. Nay, let them teach them that it is a great deal better to do somethings which possibly they had rather let alone, than quarrel and break the peace of the Church of God. They have the Example of Mr. Calvin for it, who finding, that during his exile from Geneva, they had brought back the use of the Wafer-Cake of unleavened bread, would not contend about it, though he did not like it. He knew as well as you, it was not commanded by God, and that there was no necessity of it; nay, that this sort of bread had been the invention of the Papists, and abused by them to Superstition and Idolatry; and that they made unleavened bread necessary to the Sacrament, and urged it as of Divine Institution, for which causes he disliked it; but yet he would not strive, though it would not have been to break a custom, but only to go back where he left them; because he saw it would make a rent. Would you would but imitate his Discretion, and we should see an end of our Disputes; Especially if you would not be so peremptory; for there can be no peace while you affirm with so much confidence, that this and that doubtful thing, is the Mind of the Lord. St. Paul was content (as my Lord Bacon, I think, somewhere observes) to speak in this manner in some cases, Thus say I, not the Lord: and according to my counsel. But now men do so lightly say, Not I, but the Lord, yea, and bind it with such heavy denunciations of his judgements; that they distract poor souls that would willingly do all that God would have them, and make Differences so wide, that we can never come together. Be modest therefore in your affections, desires, and all your carriage and behaviour. Speak well also of the present Ministers that conform in every thing to the Law, who approve themselves to God and men by their diligence and piety. Be not ready to proclaim the negligence or perhaps evil manners of any. Hear all their Instructions with Reverence, and if your be otherwise minded in any thing, keep it to yourselves, and make no stir about it. In short, Do all that ever you can without sinning; and if you do not condemn nor separate from those who do more than you; then your Omissions may be pardoned, and you may more reasonably expect indulgence or accommodation, when you do your Duty as well as you are able, than now that you are disobedient, and obstinately refuse to obey Authority in things you acknowledge not unlawful.  N. C. 
But there should be some yielding on both sides.  C. 
Would you have us yield to those, who will not bend to their own Reason and Conscience? First do what you can; otherwise we cannot so much as yield that you are throughly sincere and honest hearted. And let me admonish you of this also; that unless you reform yourselves in such things as I have mentioned, all that can be fairly yielded will not do the business. For when you have any hope of obtaining all you wish, nothing will serve less than that. It will not content you to have your consciences satisfied, but we must satisfy your Fancy too: For I have been informed that there was some inclination even in Queen Elizabeth's Days, to remove the Ceremonies of the Cross, 
This Sir Fran. Walsingham told Mr. Knewstubs who related it to Dr. John Burges.  Surpliss, and Kneeling, if that would give content. But those of your persuasion who were consulted with, returned this Answer; That they must not leave a Hoof behind, which Answer, saith my Author, made them all the faster.  N. C. 
It was their Conscience therefore that was unsatisfied.  C. 
And there is no hopes of satisfying such Consciences, as still say like Moses to Pharaoh, Thus saith the Lord; in every little point. Nothing will please them, but pulling down all, and rearing another building after a new model of their own; or, in their phrase, according to the pattern in the Mount.  N. C. 
I must talk with you about that anon, if I can; but I hope there are few of these rigid men, now among our Ministers.  C. 
Then I have told them the way to peace.  N. C. 
But it is such away I perceive as would make them only hearers of Sermons, not preachers, unless they conform in all things. It would tie up their Tongues, and restrain them from the exercise of their Ministry: a thing they can never consent unto.  C. 
The ancient silenced Ministers before the War quietly suffered this restraint: and thought they might, nay, aught to cease preaching when they were deprived.  N C. 
I cannot believe it.  C. 
It is so notorious, that the Brownists observed this to them as a Crime, that they did acquiesce in the suspension or deprivation of the Bishops. But they were so far from thinking it a fault; that they justified it to be a Virtue. For so long, said they, as the Bishops suspend and deprive according to the Laws of the land, we account of the Action herein, as of the act of the Church; which we may and aught to reverence and yield unto: if they do other wise; we have liberty given us by the Law to appeal from them. 
A most Grave and modest Confutation of the Errors of the Sect called Brownists or Separatists; agreed upon long since by the joint consent of many Ministers then standing out in the cause of Inconformity. Published by Mr. Rath. 1644. part. 2. p. 41.  If it be said, that the Church is not to be obeyed when it suspends and deprives us, for such causes as we in our Consciences think to be insufficient; we answer: That it lies in them to depose that may ordain; and they may shut, that may open. And that as he may with a good conscience execute a Ministry by the ordination and calling of the Church, who is privy to himself of some unfitness (if the Church will press him to it:) so may be who is privy to himself of no fault that deserves deprivation, cease from the execution of his Ministry; when he is pressed thereunto by the Church. And indeed, if a guiltless person, put out of his charge by the Church's Authority, may yet continue in it, what proceed can there be against guilty persons, who in their own conceits are always guiltless, or will at least pretend so to be; seeing they also will be ready always to object against the Church's Judgement, that they are called of God, and may not therefore give over the execution of their Ministry at the will of man?  N. C. 
It is notably observed I must confess: I did not think they had been of this mind.  C. 
Your Ministers that are or any learning know this well enough: But either are a new brood sprung from a mixture of several Sects, or else act directly contrary to their Principles. Say which you please, it is indifferent to me: Whether do you think their principles are pure derived from the ancient Noncomformists; or that they have only some of their Principles, mingled with others of the old Separatists.  N. C. 
I am sure they cannot endure the name of those Separatists.  C. 
Why do they countenance their objections then against their forefathers; and act more like them than the Non-conformists?  N. C. 
It is forgetfulness, I believe. And yet, if they thought they might keep silence, why do they say so oft, We be to me if I preach not the Gospel? 1 Cor. 9.16. and, whether it be right to hearken to you, more than to God, judge ye, Act. 4.19, 20.  C. 
That's a question to be asked them, rather than me. And their Forefathers in Nonconformity, thought such places unskilfully alleged against them by the Brownists, and that they were nothing to the purpose: Their Case (and so yours) being so different from the Apostles. For first, They that inhibited the Apostles (they are the words of those Ministers concerning the last place) were known and professed enemies to the Gospel. 
Ib. part. 2. pag. 42.  Secondly, the Apostles were charged not to teach in the name of Christ, nor to publish any part of the doctrine of the Gospel; which commandment might more hardly be yielded unto than this of our Bishops, who are not only content that the Gospel should be preached, but are also Preachers of it themselves. Lastly, the Apostles received not their calling and Authority from men, nor by the hands of men, but immediately from God himself, and therefore might not be restrained or deposed by men: whereas we, though we exercise a function whereof God is the Author, and are also called of God to it, yet are we called and ordained by the hand and ministry of men, and therefore may by men be also deposed, and restrained from the exercise of our Ministry.  N. C. 
They seem to speak with great judgement.  C. 
Would we could but hear you Discourse now thus wisely and solidly: It would gain you great respect and make every body in love with you, whatsoever differences there were between us. But to hear men only babble in Scripture-language; so ignorantly as if they were mere Novices in Christian Religion, and yet so confidently as if they were Apostles; it cannot but disgust all rational persons. Besides, would not any man think that many of your Ministers were carried more by Humour than Piety, and regarded more their own interest, than that of Religion, when he hears them crying out, necessity is laid upon us; and woe be to us, if we preach not the Gospel; and yet they preach it only where there is no need, and that with a greater breach of the Laws, than if they preached in other places? Why do they not instruct the country people (if they must preach,) where they say the Cures are worst served? I doubt they see their condition would be Woeful indeed, if they preached the Gospel there; and therefore they should have added two words to the Apostles speech and said, Woe be to us, if we preach not the Gospel, in LONDON. There is little to be got by preaching it to the poor Country folk. Those are barren places to sow the seed in, and will bring forth small profit to themselves. And so they would do well to say in plain English (and I should think them honester men if they did) Necessity is laid upon us: to tell you the truth, We must preach to get a living.  N. C. 
I have heard them say, that they have searched their hearts often—  C. 
So did the Army as I told you, and were never the better for that.  N. C. 
And they find that they mean uprightly: And that it doth not condemn them of consulting with flesh and blood.  C. 
I find that they apishly imitate the Apostles without their spirit: And run about with their words in their mouths, when they leave the sense behind. As if when they want the things the Apostles had, it were some comfort to them that they can keep their glorious Phrase and Style. Did they never consult think you one with another, what to do?  N. C. 
Yes without doubt.  C. 
And what are they, I beseech you? Are they turned on a sudden into Spirits? Have they left the Body, since they left our Churches; and become separated Substances, since they became Separatists.  N. C. 
What do you mean?  C. 
Nay, what do you mean, thus vainly to affect the Apostles phrase? Who intended nothing else, when he said, (1 Gal. 16.) that he did not consult with flesh and blood after God was pleased to give him an immediate commission to preach Christ, but that he did not confer and deliberate with any mortal men, like himself, whether he should go about that work or no. And truly in this sense I doubt your Ministers consulted too much with flesh and blood, when they considered whether they should conform to the Orders of the Church or no. They applied themselves to your humour, and thought whether you would not be displeased to see them do that which they had rashly condemned or slighted; and hear them preach up that, which they had destroyed. Saint Paul indeed stood not upon this, and would not hearken to what men said: But they I doubt had more of his words than of his mind; and sat listening a great while to the voice of flesh and blood about this matter. And I wish they did not consult too much with it about other things: And did not balk displeasing Doctrines. Otherwise, why do they not teach you in an honest manner as the Old Non-Conformists did: That the Ancient Church of God used a Form of Prayer and Praises, as every body knows 
* There being, say they, confessions, prayers, psalms, reading of the Scriptures, exhortations, solemn blessing used in their Synagogues. ? And that our Saviour bade his Disciples when they prayed to say, Our Father, etc. which he would never have done, if it had not been lawful for us in making our Prayers to God, to use the very same Words? And that is an absurd and frivolous Exception to say, We never read that the Apostles did use a Prescript Form of Words; For if this be sufficient to excuse us from doing what Godexpresly commands or manifestly permits, that we never read the Apostles or Saints did it; then we must not, or need not Baptise in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost, because we never find they used those words; or that they Baptised Infants; or that they prayed, or rendered acknowledgements to the Holy Ghost. And farther, why do they not teach you that even upon extraordinary occasions, which require great and special fervency of Spirit, it is lawful to use a Form of Words, as our Blessed Saviour did in his Agony Matth. 26.42.45. 
* And so the Prophets had appointed as they gather from 14. Hos. 1. & 2. Joel 17. ? And again, not only those Forms which we frame ourselves, but which have been composed by others? as Solomon, they observed, Jehosophat, Hezekiah, all used the very words that David had done before. Nay, further yet, that the people of God have used a set Form of Words in extraordinary occasions, which were appointed long before those occasions fell out. Daniel for instance used the words that Solomon had commended in case of Captivity 
a Dan. 9.5. compared with 1 King 8 47. : and Ezra uses the Form of Thanksgiving, which Jeremiah had appointed, say they; to be used after their return from Captivity 
b Vid. Psal. 136. comp. with 33. Jer. 11. and 3. Ezra. 11. . And more than this, that it is lawful to use not only those forms which are in the Scripture, but such as in the compiling and collecting them, the Invention and such other Gifts of men are used. There being a liberty (as the Separatists themselves heretofore confessed) left in the Church to do many things, that tend only to the setting forth God's Ordinances. As in preaching of the Word, and in those Prayers, which they call conceived Prayers; the Wit, Memory, judgement, and such other human gifts are lawfully and necessarily used. Especially considering, that the people's Understanding and Memory may be better helped by that they are well acquainted withal, than by the other. And then, if forms thus devised by men be found to be lawful and profitable; what sin can it be, for the Governors of the Church to command that such Forms be used, or for us to use them (being persuaded of their lawfulnese) when they are imposed? Unless any body will say, that therefore it is unlawful for us to hear the Word, receive the Sacraments, believe the Trinity and all other Articles of the Faith, because we are commanded by the Magistrate so to do: Whereas indeed we ought the rather to do good things that are agreeable to the Word, when we know them to be also commanded by the Christian Magistrate. These are the very words of your ancient Writers against the Brownists or Separatists 
c In the Book published by Mr. W. Rathband. part 1. but taken, I find; out of a more ancient writer, Mr. Rich. Bernard's confutation of the errors of Barrow and Greenwood, Ann. 1608. pag. 191. 192. etc. .  
Let but your Ministers, not consulting the People's Fancies and desires, faithfully inculcate these Truths, and endeavour to engraft them in their minds; it will give a great Testimony of their Sincerity, and I am sure it will go a great way to make up our sad Divisions. If they will not press these things more than any thing else, for the present; (there being such great necessity of it) we can give no other reason of their silence, but that they consult their own interest, and are loath to leave their Private Meetings. And then considering their known & declared Principles, I shall be forced to used a word of one of their great Enemies (though I protest I am sincerely their friend) and say, they are of the most ancient Sect of the Auto-catacrites 
* J. Goodwins obstruction of Justice. p. 68  [the Self-condemned] the worst of all Sectaries.  N. C. 
I have heard our Ministers acknowledge all this; and therefore, what needs thus many words?  C. 
Acknowledge it, man? I would not only have them say so when they are asked, (as it were a sorrowful Confession whispered in the Ear) but publish it aloud on all occasions; that so they may call back those sheep that are gone astray by their means. Let every one of them, the next time you meet, speak to the people in their own language and say, Come, let us go up out of this Babel, and confusion; Let us return to Zion; though it be with weeping and Supplication. There the Lord dwelleth, and there he is truly worshipped. For whatsoever they may acknowledge sometime, the poor people (whom I pity with all my soul) are strangely and passionately possessed with an opinion of the sinfulness of being present at our Divine Service. Many of them esteem one of our Ministers, how well soever qualified and diligent in his calling, however blameless and exemplary in his conversation; no better than a Corrupt man, a , a Formalist, Popishly affected, or at least, a man blinded and deceived through Ignorance. Nay, there are those who call them the Sons of Perdition and make them men of no Conscience. Some have questioned whether they may marry a Conformist; as if they were the people of a strange God. To hear such a Minister they look upon as a great crime: At least they think, if any other be to be found, they must go to the Nonconformist, though far the weaker man. And as if they thought that to be godliness in themselves which they call tyranny in other men; there are some that impose this upon their Children, never to hear the Common-Prayer: And charge them, as I have heard, upon their blessing, to obey them in this Command. And when for very shame they 01 cannot but acknowledge the gifts of some Ministers; then they limit the use of them only to the information of men's Minds in the letter of the Scripture and discovering gross sins: But that they may convert Souls, and work Faith and Repentance in them, they very much doubt, if not flatly deny. Nay, so far doth this conceit carry some of them, that they will scarce give a friendly countenance or salutation to us: And they commonly call any small company of their own party; the Church, the people of God, the Christians of such a town: As if we had no portion in Christ, but they had got him wholly to themselves. These Humours were observed in the old Separatists; and since they abound in you also, there is great need to warn you to purge out the old leven lest it be transmitted from generation to generation.  N. C. 
But though a set Forum be lawful, yet it is useless; because there is no able Minister that needs one: and we ought not to provide Crutches for those that are not able, but rather remove them.  C. 
You would fain be Governors I see, not subjects; and we should have fine do, if you were in the Throne: Unless you were as wise and honest as some of your Predecessors have been, who made this discreet answer to your Exception. There may be good Ministers, who want the gift of extemporary conceptions of Prayer; and by consequence need a Form. For St. Paul setting down the requisites to a Bishop (saith Mr. Geree 
* Resolution of 10. Cases Licenced by Mr. Cranford and dedicated to Mr. Rith. Capel An. 1644. ) 1 Tim. 3. 1 Tit. Neither names nor intimates this for one of them. And where the Scripture speaks of Ministerial gifts given to the edification of the Church; this gift of prayer is never mentioned. 
* 1 Corinth. 1. to the 11. Rom. 12.6.7.8. Ephes. 4.11.12.  Tell me then, if a man have all that St. Paul requires in a Bishop, and yet wants this gift, is he a lawful Minister of the Gospel or not? No doubt there are such, who cannot express themselves without confusion, or to the edification of others without the help of a Form: And experience tells us, very excellent men have constantly tied themselves to it. As, Dr. Taylor, a courageous witness to the Truth, used the Communion-Book even in private when he was in Prison, and bequeathed it as a Legacy to his Wife. He instances also in Dr. Sibs and Mr. Hildersham who used constantly one form of Prayer before their Sermons. And I find indeed the two last Sermons of the Doctor sent abroad by two eminent men with that Prayer before them 
* Upon 14. John, 1. published by Mr. Tho. Goodwin, and Mr. Philip Nye, and dedicated to my Lord of Warwick. By which you may see the Assembly were much out of the way, when they told you, the Lord Jesus furnishes all those whom he calls to the Ministry with this gift of Prayer. Or else these men were among the idle and unedifying Ministry, who did not put forth themselves to exercise their gift. Preface to the Directory.   N.C. 
I have many things to say about Forms of Prayer, and yours in particular; especially about the imposing them; if you have the patience to hear me.  C. 
With all my heart: Only contract what you have to say, because I have some business stays for me.  N.C. 
You have seen a Book I perceive which hinders several persons, I am told, from joining with you; and they think it unanswerable.  C. 
What Goliath should that be?  N. C. 
It is called, Common Prayer-Book-Devotions, Episcopal Delusions. Or the Second Death of the Service-Book.  C. 
A terrible, Giantlike Title.  N.C. 
The Preface to which seems to call your Ministers the Sons of Perdition, as you just now noted.  C. 
O, I remember now; it is said by his Friends to be writ by Mr, J. Goodwin; and printed in the wonderful year 1666, when they thought to see us tumble down with a powder.  N.C. 
It is full of his peculiar phrases, and therefore—  C. 
I am not concerned at all who was the Author: Let's consider what he says. I took it to be a piece so soul and scurrilous; nay so profane and blasphemous against those Devotions wherein so many thousand Souls offer up themselves to God; that I never expected to hear you name it without abhorrence.  N.C. 
You pass a very hard sentence on it.  C. 
If you had read the two first leaves seriously, you would not say so. Where, as if he imagined himself in a Tennis-Court when he chanced to peep into a Church, he rudely calls the Minister's and People's answering one another, Bandying and tossing of Devotions to and again (a witty expression you think, but borrowed alas, as the rest of his Book, from the Railers that were before him 
* It is as old as the Admonition in Qu. Elizabeth's time. ). Nay, his fancy stepped immediately from thence into an Alehouse; and he tells us that these Devotions much resemble the jolly Scent of a set of Ale-inspired Companions, chanting their drunken Catches upon a Bench. Which is such a lewd and impious Scoff at the Devotions inspired by the Holy-Ghost (which directed the Ancient Saints thus to answer one another 
* 15 Exo. 1.21.15. Rev. 3. ) that, to speak in Mr. J. goodwin's phrase, he must be the firstborn of profaneness, who can deliberately commend such writings.  N.C. 
But what do you say to the rest of the Book.  C. 
I say he was in such a Choleric fit, and laid so furiously about him when he writ it, that neither the admirable Song of St. Ambrose, nor the Creed itself, (which bears the name of the Apostles) could escape with fair quarter.  N C. 
Not the Creed?  C. 
No: For he blames the Liturgy; for enjoining us to make Confession of our Faith in that form of words: because saith he, it contains that, which I believe no man understands upon any good grounds what it means; viz. the descent of Christ into Hell.  N.C. 
Read his words again, Doth no man understand—  C. 
Not one; if his belief be right, which is exceeding large in this point, though very straight in other things.  N.C. 
High Presumption, you should say, not belief. Have not our Writers given a very good account of this Article?  C. 
I know not so well what yours have done, I am sure ours, both Bishops and Priests, have explained it; witness the late Primate of Ireland, Bishop Bilson, and Dr. Pierson in his excellent Book upon the Creed.  N. C. 
And when the Assembly debated this, among other exceptions brought in against the three Creeds; a learned Doctor told them (in a Speech of his) that all the Christians in the World acknowledged Christ's descent into Hell some way or other: either Locally, as many of the ancient Fathers, Latimer the Martyr, Bilson, Andrews, Nowell in his Catechism; or Virtually, as Durandus; or Metaphorically, as Mr. Calvin; or Metonymically, as Tilenus, Perkins, and the Assembly. And therefore since there are so many ways to explain the words, he desired that (after the example of the Harmony of Confessions) the Assembly would content themselves with branding only the Popish Exposition of the Article, which takes Hell for a part of Purgatory, where they suppose the Souls of the Fathers to have laid.  C. 
I remember well the words 
* Sacra Nemesis p. 18. ; it was Doctor Featly who made this Speech: But alas! all these men that we have named understood nothing. They knew not (poor Souls!) what they said when they made Confession of their Faith; or they had no reason worth a rush for what they believed. Nay all the Christian World do but babble in their Devotions, if you will take the word of this triumphant Writer; excepting always such as himself, who have no Creed at all, that ever I heard of; I mean make no confession of their Faith when they meet together.  N.C. 
They are offended perhaps with those words; else they would use the Apostles Creed, as it is commonly called.  C. 
That is not the business; for he scoffs, as I told you, at the Song of St. Ambrose, though it contain an incomparable acknowledgement of Almighty God, and the principal points of Christian Faith, and hath none of those words in it. This is no more fit, in his conceit, to be used in Divine-Service, together with the Psalms of David, than an Ass was to be yoked with an Ox in the same Plough, under the Law of Moses. Had he the same opinion think you of one of his own Hymns (or Rhymes rather) though never so flat and insipid? No, I warrant you. They were divinely inspired; heavenborn Songs; no less Canonical than the Psalms of David.  N.C. 
They had no such thought of them.  C. 
Why then did they join them with the Holy Scriptures in God's Service? How dared they yoke together things so different, as those made by God and those made by Man? Or if that were lawful; why are we blamed for using the Song of St. Ambrose in Divine Service? Nay, why did he call our Liturgy upon this account, a medley 
* He adds a heap of other words as his manner is, when these would have been sufficient.  of things, Canonicals and Apocryphals, no more fit to be moulded together in Evangelical worship, than those creatures I mentioned to be coupled in the same Plough?  N.C. 
I know no reason for it.  C. 
Nor will you ever find a Reason why another famous Book 
* Vox Populi, Second part p. 3.  of yours, in the late times said; that the solemn salutes and demy-adorations of St. John Baptist, and the Flessed Virgin were left still in the Common-Prayer Book by our Reformers. There is no occasion at all for this Calumny, unless he thought Magnificat and Benedictus were two Popish Hymns, whereby we honoured those Saints: as it were easy, I think, to persuade many of their ignorant and credulous Followers. Nay, they who can be content to hear us compared to a knot of Ale-inspired Companions, when we sing those words of the Holy Ghost; may, for any thing I know, be taught to rail upon Magnificat and Benedictus, if as they were but certain Drunken Catches.  N.C. 
You are too severe.  C. 
I abhor severity where gentleness is the proper cure. But Saint Paul tells Titus, that unruly and vain talkers, and deceivers, must be rebuked sharply, Tit. 1.13. And there needs no other witness that there are such among them (whose mouths must be stopped) than the Prefacer to the Book we are speaking of: a confident Ignoramus, who struts as if he were some great man, and makes a rattling with his big words as if he had some mighty matter to tell us; but in effect hath just nothing, except two or three gross and palpable falsehoods, of which I will make him ashamed if he have not a very brazen forehead.  N C. 
Do you think he would lie for Christ?  C. 
I think he is a bold and vain talker of things he understands not: what more, do you judge when you have heard what I have to say. If the Book was writ by the person before named, as his Disciples affirm, than he tells us one Notorious Tale when he saith, The Author ended his days in a kind of Exile, for adhering to this truth, defended in his Book. viz. That nothing aught to be imposed in the worship of God. For it's well known by all that understand any thing of our affairs, that Mr. John Goodwin suffered no banishment of any kind; but was disabled from his office (though there had been no Common-Prayer) for intermeddling so much in the late Civil quarrels, and writing a Book to justify the horrid murder of our late Sovereign. But to let that pass. He asks us, you remember, Where were more learned, more godly men in the World, than Cartwright, Parker, Reynolds, Greenham, Ames? And who knoweth not that these and many more of the same heavenly stamp, suffered extreme Persecution, Deprivations and Banishments, rather than they would touch with the graven Images, the work of the Craftsmen, that then were, and now are, the snares and nets upon Mispeh and Tabor?  N C. 
I remember them very well.  C. 
And is he not an abominable reviler in reproaching us with Idolatry, and the worshipping of Graven Images?  N.C. 
But where are the Falsehoods?  C. 
Is that none think you? But those I now intent are, that he makes those men against a stinted form of worship who were for it; and to suffer extreme persecution on that account who suffered none at all, much less Banishment. Other untruths there are, but these are sufficient to make him blush, if he have any of that virtuous colour left.  N.C. 
Was not Cartwright of his mind?  C. 
No. For he declared his meaning was not to disallow of a prescript form of Prayer, and an uniform Order in the Church. His quarrel was only with some things in our Service-Book. But yet he professed he did not oppose the Ceremonies as simply unlawful, but only as inconvenient. And therefore persuaded the Pretchers rather to wear the Surpliss than cease their Ministry, and the people to receive the Sacrament kneeling, if they could not have it otherways: because though that gesture was, as he conceived, incommodious, yet not simply unlawful. All which and a great deal more I will prove out of his own works and other good Authors, if it be contradicted; as also that he lost his Professors-place at Cambridge upon other accounts, and after all went to Warwick where he was born, and died in the discharge of his Office as their Minister. And Mr. Edward's I remember tells us that he citing a passage out of Mr. Cartwright's Comments on the Proverbs, in a Sermon he preached a little before the Wars to persuade the people to take heed of the White Devil, viz. the separation upon greater pretence of Purity; Mr. John Goodwin came to him when he had done, and gave him great thanks for it. As for Mr. Parker, he indeed went further and said, the Ceremonies were unlawful either to be imposed, or used. But he was far from being so great a Scholar as this man fancies; at least his learning was not well digested. For taking upon him to maintain, that Popish Idolatry is every whit as bad as Pagan, he brings a passage out of Saint Augustine to justify this, that a Heretic is worse than a Pagan. Which are the Words of another man, whom Saint Augustine in that place confutes, and asks him by what rule he concluded this, seeing our Lord said, If he hear not the Church let him be to thee as an Heathen, not worse than an Heathen; By which you may see how how forward men of this spirit are; to catch at any thing that may seem to favour their Opinions, and to make a show of learning when they think it will serve them, though they slight and undervalue it as a carnal weapon, when it is in their Adversaries hands. And if I thought this man understood him, I should imagine he had learned of Mr. Parker to magnify those of his own party beyond their deserts: For he extols the refusing of conformity as such a singular piece of service done to God, that he compares such persons as were therefore deprived, to David, Worthies, and the three hundred men that followed Gideon. Most brave flourishes! How can you choose but yield your  captive to such Champions; believing this Preface upon his word, that those he Musters up were in the number of the Worthies. But he belies Mr. Greenham too; as I am able to prove from good Testimony, even from himself. But for brevity's sake I shall only let you know that Doctor John Burges assures us, that on his own knowledge and in his hearing, Mr. Greenham denied to persuade any man against the use of the Ceremonies; and professed he would be loath to be put to the solution of this Objection (as he called it) wear the Surpliss, or Preach not. Which is an argument that though he did not like them, yet he did not hold them unlawful, much less Idolatrous, as this Ignorant Writer would persuade us. I can prove also that he abuses Doctor Ames, but that I make haste to tell you; the most palpable forgery of all, is the putting Doctor Reynolds into the Catalogue of his Mighty Men. And since he pretends to understand Latin, I will send him for his more full conviction to an Author no less learned than that excellent Doctor, and a far better Scholar than any of the rest; and that is Doctor Richard Crackanthorp, who tells the Archbishop of Spalleto that the Doctor was no Puritan (as he called him) but he himself a Calumniator. 
Defence. Ecclsiae Anglicanae, etc. cap: 69: pag. 419. An. 1529.  For first, he professed that he appeared unvillingly in the cause at Hampton Court, and merely in obedience to the King's command. And then, he spoke against not one word there against the Hierarchy. Nay, he acknowledged it to be consonant to the word of God, in his conference with Hart. And in an Answer to Sanders his Book, of the Schism of England (which is in the Archbishops Library) he professes that he approves of the Book of Consecrating and ordering Bishops, Priests and Deacons. He was a strict observer also of all the Orders of the Church and University, both in public and his own College: wearing the Square Cap and Surpliss, Kneeling at the Sacrament, and he himself commemorating their Benefactors at the times their Statutes appointed, and reading that Chapter out of Ecclesiasticus, which is on such occasions used. In a Letter also of his to Archbishop Bancroft (then in Doctor Crackanthorps' hands) he professes himself conformable to the Church of England, willingly and from his heart, his Conscience admonishing him so to be. And thus he remained persuaded to his last breath; desiring to receive Absolution according to the manner prescribed in our Liturgy, when he lay on his Deathbed. Which he did from Doctor Holland the King's Professor in Oxford; kissing his hand in token of his Love and Joy, and within a few hours after resigned up his Soul to God. What think you now; was Doctor Reynolds one of those that abominated our Worship, suffered extreme persecution, deprivation and banishment too? Or must he that lately stood among the most learned and godly men in the World, be now blotted out, and put in the black list of Idolaters, and touchers with Graven Images? What say you? Will you never see how these men deceive you? Must the most knowing men on our side, that report things to us from solid testimony, be thought liars; and these impudent sots be believed on their bare word?  N.C. 
I am convinced he understood nothing of these matters.  C. 
And yet he writes like a Teacher; though I believe he never studied their own Writers about these points. If he had; the silenced Ministers in those days would have taught him a great part of what I have said. For they have told us in Print, 
* Christian Modest Offer (as they call it), of the silenced Ministers, in which they call for another disputation. Anno 1606.  that Most of those Ministers appointed to speak for them at Hampton Court were not of their choosing, or Nomination, or Judgement in the matters then in question; but of a clean contrary. For being entreated at that time to dispute against those things as simply evil and such as could not be yielded to without sin, they professed to them, they were not so persuaded, and therefore could not do so. And being then requested to let his Majesty understand, that some of their Brethren were further persuaded touching the unlawfulness of those things than themselves, they refused that also. Now I would fain know of this Epistler, whether he do not think Doctor Reynolds was one of those Most? and whether he do not see that such men as he were ashamed the King should know; that any of the Nonconformists (to whom they wished well) were so weak as to call the things in difference simply evil?  N.C. 
I think you had best dismiss this man. What say you to the Arguments in the Book itself?  C. 
Where shall we find them? There are strains of railing Rhetoric, ill applied similitudes (which are the common way of deceiving) abused Scriptures; lose inconsequent-reasonings; in a word, no arguments, that do not prove a great deal too much.  N.C. 
Methinks there is something in that, p. 4. That it is impossible for a man to keep up his heart so much as in a tolerable posture of Devotion, reverence and attention to such Prayers, as having been framed by men, and those no more excellent than their neighbours, are grown familiar to us, and can be said by rote beforehand, we having heard them a thousand times already.  C. 
Nothing at all. For by whom are their Prayers framed? Are they Angels or glorified Saints in the Church Triumphant, that must not have the name of Men? Or dare they say, the Spirit frames them? And do they not repeat for ever the same phrases, only not put together always in the same Order? How many thousand times have you heard them beg, that they might prise Christ more, and Ordinances more, and Sabbaths more and a number of such like things as these? And besides all this, what say you to the Psalms of David? Can no man anciently join devoutly in singing them, because they were so often repeated, and so well known that the Jews had them by heart?  N.C. 
I cannot tell; But God himself, he saith, judges it necessary to consult his glory (I mean a Religious awe, reverence and esteem to his counsels and works from men) by concealing the one and the other, till the time of their bringing forth, that so they may come fresh and new to them. What say you to that?  C. 
I say he doth not write sense, for it is as if he had told us, that God doth not reveal his Counsels, till he reveal them.  N.C. 
But you may guests at his meaning; that God keeps secret what he intends to do, till he bring it to pass.  C. 
That's false. For he foretold many things by the Prophets. But were it altogether true; it's nothing to the purpose. For though he surprises us sometimes with events we never thought of, and could not foresee; and will not always ways let us know what be intends to do: yet he doth not judge it necessary to conceal his will, concerning that which we are to do. No; quite contrary. He judges it necessary to declare it, and hath made no new Declaration since the Apostles times. And yet we may have a Religious reverence, sure, to his Counsels revealed in his Word, though they come not fresh and new to us. If we cannot; all that I have to say is, that then the same Exception lies against them, which you bring against the Common-Prayer. Nor are your own Prayers so fresh and new as he pretends; but we know beforehand the most you have to say; only you have some new invented Words and Phrases which sometimes give us just disgust.  N.C. 
Doth not our Saviour say, Mat. 13.52. that every Scribe, every Teacher, instructed to the Kingdom of Heaven, i.e. meetly qualified for the work of the Ministry of the Gospel, is like to a man that brings forth out of his Treasures, things new and old?  C. 
What of all that?  N.C. 
Doubtless our Saviour spoke it upon this Account, as he tells you.  C. 
Doubtless he was full of fancy (as well as the rest of his Brethren) which laid hold of every thing without any reason, if it would but make a show, and serve to countenance their wild opinions. Else he would have easily seen that our Lord speaks of his Apostles and Evangelists, who were furnished with abilities to propagate the Gospel, both by their knowledge in the Old Revelations in the ancient Scriptures, and in the new, which he made unto them.  N. C. 
But the Liturgy smells rank of the Popish Mass-Book which alone is sufficient to make it the abhorring of their souls that understand any thing of the severity of the Divine jealousy, etc. pag. 5.  C. 
The old N. C. were not affrighted with such terrible Nothings as these. But told our English Donatists (the Brownists) who objected this: That it was more proper to say the Mass-Book was added to our Common-Prayer, than that our Common-Prayer was taken out of the Mass-Book. For most things in our Common-Prayer were to be found in the Liturgies of the Church, long before this Mass-Book, you talk of, was heard of in the world. The Mass was patched up by degrees and added to the Liturgies of the Church; now one piece, then another. And if a true man may challenge his goods wheresoever he finds them, which the thief hath drawn into his Den; then the Church of God may lawfully lay claim to those holy things which the Church of Rome hath usurped, and snatch them away from among the trash wherewith they are mingled. A great deal more to the same purpose you may find in Mr. John Ball 
* Answer to two Treatises of Mr. John Can. 1642. part. 2. pag. 9 , which I cannot now stand to tell you. The sum is this; That Popery is a Scab or Leprosy that cleaves to the Church. It mostly stands in erroneous, faulty, gross and abominable superstructures upon the true Foundation, whereby they poison, or overthrow the foundation itself. But take away the superstructures and the foundation remains: Remove the Leprosy and the man is sound.  N. C. 
You talk of Liturgies in the ancient Church: We read of none in the Apostles time.  C. 
True: But as the same person ingenuously confesses, 
** Ib. part. 2. p. 17.  they might be, though we read nothing of them. For the Apostles have not set down a Catalogue of all and every particular Order that was in the Church. However, a set form of Prayer to be used in public meetings is not unlawful, because it is of the number of things which God hath not determined in his Word, etc. And as to call that Holy which God hath not commanded is Superstitious, so it is erroneous to condemn that as unholy or profane which God allows, or is consonant to his Word, though not precisely commanded.  N. C. 
It is a common opinion that the Liturgy is a novel Invention in the days of blindness and laziness, in favour of Idle and debauched Priests.  C. 
You are all as learned as the Prefacer to your Book. But you might be more truly learned if you would read the Author now mentioned; who tells you that though it's hard to determine the precise antiquity of stinted Liturgies; yet that they have been in use in the Christian Church for the space of 1400. years if not above, no man can deny. And that they could not be invented for such ends as you imagine; because the chief promoters of stinted Liturgies were renowned for their constant and unwearied preaching every day in the week and sometimes twice 
* Ib. pag. 18. . The New England Ministers would have taught you more; for all they dare say against the Antiquity of Liturgies is, that for about an hundred years there were none 
a Letter of Reply and Answer about 9 positions, pag. 2. : Then your Dialogue-maker 
b Mr. Hughes, p. 42.  tells you they came in; but hath the impudence to add, that Ministers than grew idle and weary of taking pains.  
N. C. It is a sad thing there should be such endless disputes: Surely if they that composed the Common-Prayer bade dreamt that it would create so many divisions, distractions, tumults, confusions, etc. they would never have found either heart or hand to lift up toward the promoting of it. pag. 8.  C. 
An admirable Argument! As if he had said, The Penmen of Holy Scripture would never have writ as they have done; if they had but fore-seen what ill use would be made of their words, what Wranglings and Disputes they would raise, and how they would be wrested and tortured to a sense which they never thought of. Must the possibility of an inconvenience that may grow, hinder us from doing good things?  N. C. 
No. But there is no good comes of this. For they who like this kind of Worship are generally Ignorant, Profane, Superstiti us, Time-Servers, Fearful, unbelievers, Haters of those that are good, Drunkards, Adulterers, &c  C. 
I know he saith so: And repeats it a little after, that they are generally if not universally persons much estranged from the life of God, affectionate lovers of this present World. But we know withal that there is a vast number of Ignorant revilers, railers, liars, false-accusers, covenant Breakers, proud censurers of their Brethren, uncharitable, contentious, implacable, selfconceited, greedy scrapers of wealth, etc. Who love the other kind of Worship, and like no Prayers but those of their own conceiving. Doth not this Argument war strongly (as his phrase is) against such a worship; and is it not a great presumption of the carnality of it, that it comports with the humours, fancies and Consciences of men of such an evil Spirit? If you like not such Reasonings against the Prayers of your invention, let them alone when you dispute against ours. But I must tell you however that this man, let him be who he will, hath committed a most heinous sin, and is presumptuously uncharitable in judging the Generality, if not all, of us to be ungodly. We know the contrary, and are assured that there are more than one of a City, or two of a Tribe (as he loves to speak) that are truly conscientious, and serve God in this way which he so scorns, with much satisfaction and joy of heart. And all sober men I think, will look upon it as an intolerable piece of Pride in him to say, that it is hardly credible any man fearing God (if there be any such among us) should partake at any time in this worship with any great contentment. This is to measure other men's Corn by your own Bushel. A piece of the old leven of the Scribes and Pharisees, or if you will, the Separatists here in England before he was born: To whom Mr. Gyfford answered then as we do now 
* Answer to Mr. Greenwood, pag. 72. etc. 1590. . It cannot be denied but that many pray fervently with sighs, and groans, and tears, who read the Prayer upon the Book, or have it as we use to say, by heart.  N. C. 
But if your prayer Book were as free from blemish as Absolom, nay, if it had been composed by a General Council of Elect Angels; the imposing of it would be imperious Blasphemy, and the use of it as imposed, base and wretched Idolatry.  C. 
Go and find some child to fright with your blustering Language.  N. C. 
It is more than noise. For he tells you (pag. 11.) that it is as well or as much the incommunicable privilege or prerogative of God to prescribe, appoint and command his own worship, as it is to be worshipped. And therefore whosoever shall authoritatively under any penalties command any Form, Model, Method or Manner of Divine Worship makes himself God; and whosoever submits to such Worship is an Idolater, because he gives that honour to a creature which is due to God alone. What have you to say against this Argument?  C. 
I say that as no body doubts but God, who is above all, hath a right to appoint his own Worship, so it is as certain that he hath not appointed any model of Worship or form of words to be used in Prayer and none else. Nor hath he told us that he will not be worshipped by a set Form, or that we must vary our words and phrases, and conceal what we have to say to him till we bring it forth. And therefore I say he hath left it to our sober and Religious Reason to determine after what manner that worship which he requires may be best performed. And if not to every man's reason (which would be absurd) then those who govern the rest are to consider how christian Societies when they meet together may most solemnly pray in the name of our Lord Jesus for such things as are according to Gods will; and give thanks also to God the Father through him. And consequently it is no incommunicable prerogative to appoint a Form or Order of Divine Worship, since God hath not appointed one himself, and yet must not be worshipped disorderly. And if it may be appointed, than it may be appointed under penalties, to keep men from wanton contempt of the public Reason. Mr. J. G. you remember composed a hymn to be sung on a day of Thanksgiving in his Congregation. This was a form, and authoritatively imposed; else every one there might have brought forth his hymn and put all into confusion: which if they had done they might justly have been censured by him, if he had had any power. Now I would fain know why the Magistrate may not prescribe the Song of St. Ambrose, or any other godly Hymn to be sung by all Congregations committed to his charge; as well as one Minister prescribe an hymn to his particular Congregation? and why the Magistrate may not use all his power and punish as he sees cause; as well as such a Minister use all his (who could only reprove) in case of contempt? I would know also how this Author could excuse the whole Christian World from being Idolaters, you Presbyterians not excepted, if his Doctrine be true. For the Parliament prescribed the Directory, and that not without penalties, as a model or manner of Divine Worship: and so they usurped the place of God; and you who submitted to their orders, Worshipped the creature, and said constructively and in effect (if he reason right) to the Parliament, Thou art my God, or I acknowledge and own thee for my God.  N. C. 
I remember the words, pag. 12.  C. 
And what would have become of you, if after this dreadful sentence, he had not in an extraordinary fit of good nature revoked it; and allowed the use of a prescribed form? For though he say that conceived prayer, for the nature and kind of it, is that very worship which God Commands. Yet as he doth not prove it, so he affirms it not confidently, without this restriction; at least to those that are, or by the use of means may be, capable of it, p. 30. Very kindly said; I perceive this gift then of conceiving prayer is but natural, and no divine inspiration: and where nature is not ready in its conceptions, it may be relieved by the help of Art: and some may be uncapable of it, whatsoever means they use to acquire this gift. And consequently conceived prayer is not the Worship which for the nature and kind of it, God commands; because he doth not command impossible things: but another manner of Worship by a constant form may be used; nay, imposed too when a Magistrate judges it needful, and sees that those who are most zealous for conceived Prayers alone, have generally lest abilities to conceive aright. In short he grants, p. 55. that stinted forms of Prayer in themselves, unto some men, and under some circumstances may be lawful: He might as well have said needful, for I suppose-he thought them lawful, in case men could not conceive prayers themselves, as they ought. And then why may not the circumstances be such that they may be needful to all; at least at sometimes, when men of the readiest inventions are indisposed? And mark I beseech you how timerously he gins to speak after all his vapouring, when he tells us, We shall hardly find in the Scripture, especially in the New Testament, the same Prayer used by the same person the second time. It seems we may find it, if we will but take the pains. But to save us a labour he presently remembers, that Christ prayed the same words a second and a third time: which he excuses thus; by the same words we are to understand the same in sense, matter and import, but not in sound, letters or syllables. How he came to know this I cannot tell; for my part I believe our Saviour was not concerned about new words when he had the same thing to say again. But the like peremptory conclusion he makes concerning all the exhortations to prayer delivered by Christ or his Apostles: which he saith were intended only of that kind of prayer which the Saints were to conceive and indite by the help of the Spirit, which they who believed did receive. To countenance this he citys a great many Scriptures, and tells us that those places (at least the most of them) cannot be understood of the Miraculous gifts of the Holy Ghost, etc. which is so notoriously false that I wonder he had the confidence to affirm it. The first is Joh. 7.39. the next, Act. 5.32. which no man I think before him ever understood otherwise than of the extraordinary gifts bestowed on the day of Pentecost. And of such gifts the Apostle speaks in the Rom. 5.5. 2. Cor. 5.5. Gal. 3.2. Ephes. 1.13. In short, there is but one place of all that he musters up, that can with any colour be drawn to serve his purpose, viz. Rom. 8.14, 15. And yet to me there is no Sense so plain of those words as this; that all the gifts of the Holy Ghost being a great Evidence of the truth of Christianity, they that lived accordingly, might be assured of the love of God; and whether they were Jew's or Gentiles might call God Father, though they observed not the Law of Moses. But I most marvel that he should allege that place in 1 Joh. 2.27. which the Brownists, I remember, were wont to cite (and with more show of reason) to prove that every Saint had the Holy Spirit to open to them, and lead them into every truth. To which if you please you shall hear what the Old Nonconformist replied.  N. C. 
I had rather hear what you can reply to the Scriptures which he brings to prove, that therefore God abominates a worship or a form and manner of Worship, because he hath not commanded it. Though the Worship were in its own nature abominable, yet he takes no notice of that; but only of its not being commanded, which is a sign the provocation lies there. Jer. 7.31. Jer. 19.5. etc. pag. 19.20.  C. 
I remember the places very well; and remember withal that this is a miserable old argument which hath been answered many a time before he set pen to Paper. And it hath been proved with plain Evidence, that the meaning of the words, which I commanded not, is as much as, which I forbade: as he had expressly their offering their children to Molock of which he speaks in that Jer. 7.31. So when it's said that they offered strange fire which the Lord commanded not, Leu. 10.1. all conclude that less is said and more understood, viz. that the Lord hath forbidden it. Mr. Ainsworth himself cannot deny it, who yet makes the same use of this phrase sometimes that this Author doth. And indeed a man must flatly contradict all reason that opposes this. For when he speaks of those that should worship other Gods. Sun and Moon which he had not commanded, Deut. 17.3. it is senseless to interpret it otherwise than this; which he had forbidden. For if this was the reason why a man sinned in worshipping the Moon, that he did it without God's leave or Command; it would suppose that God might have commanded them to worship it and serve other Gods: which no body imagines. All those places therefore, which he alleges to prove that Gods not commanding a thing is enough to make it unlawful, amount to no more but this; that his forbidding a thing makes it unlawful.  N. C. 
But we ought to interpret the Scripture according to the very form of the words; and so, that is unlawful which is not commanded.  C. 
Just now you were only for the sense and the matter, not the words and syllables. But to let that pass; I have shown you this is a fashion of Speech in the Old Testament for a thing forbidden. And besides, the absurdity of your Interpretation is so great, that the wiser sort of that party who first used this argument were forced afterward to forsake it: as I can clearly demonstrate out of Mr. Cartwright. And in deed where hath the Lord commanded a Minister to read a Text and gloss upon it; or the Congregation to sing the Psalms of David in Metre? Mr. Smith can never be answered by these Disputers, who said that the Holy Scriptures were not to be retained as helps before the eyes in time of worship: and that it was unlawful to look upon a Book in singing Psalms. Nor could they have told what to say to that poor Gentleman in , who was so deeply possessed with these two fancies, that we must not communicate with sinners: nor use any humane inventions in God's Service; that to avoid the first he shut up himself and children in his house, having no meat but what was put in at the window; nor suffering any body to come near them when they all lay sick in great misery: and to avoid the last, he cut out the Contents and the Titles of every thing in the Bible, leaving nothing but the Text itself 
* Mr. Ball Answ. to Can. p. 138.   N. C. 
Doth not God say thou shalt neither add thereto nor diminish from it? Deut. 12.32.  C. 
What? not add Contents, or Notes for the better understanding of the Bible?  N. C. 
Nothing to the worship of God, of which his own Word is to be the only rule, and not the least title to be abused of our own.  C. 
Why do you only say to his Worship? You learned this of Mr. Ainsworth the old S'paratist, who most unjustly restrains those words to God's Service: whereas Moses speaks of every thing he had received from him, whether they were Statutes or Judgements as you may see, v. 1. In one word, of the whole Law, which was to direct them not only in Religious but civil Affairs 
* Read the 4 Deut. 1.2. where he gins his exhortation to observe his Laws; requiring them not to add or diminish from any of them.  And therefore this place is as effectual to prove that there may be no Law made to determine our civil controversies, as that there may be none made to order God's Worship and Service. And than what hinders but those men may obtain their desires, who told you lately, it will never-be well till the Laws of the Lord Jesus be received alone? That all our Counsellors and Pleaders bring their Books of Common Law and bestow them as the Students of Curious Arts did theirs in the Apostles time? That the Godly send out their writs to supersede all proceed in Westminster-Hall, and judge all things in their Churches?  N. C. 
The State will never suffer that Folly.  C. 
Nor this foolish interpretation of Scripture, I hope. The Jews I am sure (from whom Mr. Ainsworth borrows so many useful expositions) never thought that no particular Laws might be made agreeable to the General, and for the preservation and better execution of them. For the Elders made many; and imposed those commandments on the people as a hedge and security to the Divine Laws: and in this they did well. All the fault was that in process of time they grew too numerous, and they equalled the decrees of the Elders with the very word of God, nay, sometimes made the Law void by them.  N. C. 
Since you say you are in haste to be gone, I'll trouble you no farther about this Book: though there are many things behind that deserve consideration.  C. 
I am not of that mind. He hath but raked together all the frivolous exceptions, with the filthy scoffs and jeers which were answered in the days of our Forefathers: and are as easy to confute as to tell to Twenty. But let me tell you this before we part with him, that Mr. J. Goodwin was not wont to allow reasons drawn from the Jewish Law (though all the lofty Rhetoric in this Book be drawn from it) because the state of things now is not like what was then. He tells us for instance in his Hagiomastix, though blasphemers, seducers to Idolatry, and false Prophets were put to death by that Law, yet we have not the same reason to do so now; because they might immediately consult with God in all difficult cases that happened about matters of Religion; but we have no such infallible directions in all cases, and cannot have disputes so ended. If this Reasoning be good, than this is I am sure. God directed every thing about their Sacrifices in the Jewish Law, and therefore no Rite or Ceremony was to be added by them, because if any more were needful they might still repair to him: But he hath not done so under the Gospel, nor do we know to what Prophet or Oracle to go for direction in every thing; and therefore we must repair to Religious Prudence and discretion.  N. C. 
I marvel he should speak with so much confidence and triumph in a matter that is so disputable.  C. 
It was the manner and the custom of the man (if Mr. J. G. were the Author) as you may be satisfied if you look into his Anticavalerisme. Where he tells you, There is no occasion 
* Pag. 6.  for a man to make a stand in matter of conscience, whether he should engage on the Parliaments side, or no: nothing to detain one's Conscience in suspense; the righteousness of the Cause being as clear as the light, or as the Sun at noon day. And to grace the business with Scripture language, he tells you; the Cause is like the Law of God itself in these excellent qualifications of it; that it is Holy, just and good.  N. C. 
I never knew any man speak with such assurance in a thing which all wise men thought at least doubtful.  C. 
Well, I put you in mind of it then, that you may not either wonder or be staggered when you hear men speak with such assurance. For he uses as big and confident words in another case, in which I am sure you are as confident of the contrary, viz. about the putting our Late Sovereign to death. This conclusion, saith he, stands like a great mountain ; that the justice and honour of the sentence against the late King are no way impairable by this supposition that this present Parliament is not a compleatly-legal Parliament. 
* Deferce of the sentence passed on the King, p. 47.  And in another place; Doubtless never was there any person under heaven sentenced with death upon more equitable or just grounds, in respect of guilt and demerit 
(a) Ib. p. 91. repeated again p. 95. without all controversy, there never was in any age through the whole world, a sentence more just, etc. . Thus he boasts also, that he hath brought this Conclusion, That there was a necessity lying on the Army to seclude many Members, into as clear and perfect light as any the Sun shineth at Noonday 
(b) Reply to Mr. Geree's might overcoming Right. p. 130. .  N. C. 
At midnight he should have said.  C. 
No; let him say at noonday. They are but words of course; every thing, though never so dark, is to him as clear as the noonday. And therefore no wonder it be so clear to him that we are all Idolaters; and that the King in imposing the Common-Prayer hath equalled himself unto God, and obtruded himself as God, to be worshipped by us as Nebuchadnezars Golden Image was. For he told us you know in express words, That whosoever shall authoritatively and under a penalty command any model, method, or manner of Divine worship to be observed by men, makes himself God, etc. you may read it at large, p. 11. 12. For it is as clear as the Sun.  N. C. 
That such Books ought to be burnt.  C. 
I must add that you are all guilty of too much confidence, and talk as if you were infallible in your conclusions. When you see therefore the folly of it in another, mend it in yourselves. And do not talk here after as if all Godly men had ever been of your mind: No man of a tender Conscience but held it unlawful to prescribe any thing in God's worship. Every Body knows Cartwright, Reynolds, Greenham were of this opinion as the Prefacer boldly told you; and it is a wonder he did not add Dr. Sibbs. For so some of your party took care the world should believe; and chose rather to corrupt his writings, then have it thought he was of another Persuasion.  N. C. 
I shall never believe it.  C. 
You may choose: But I shall prove that this good man's writings were abused presently after his death in this very point. For in his Book called the Souls Conflict, he gave this direction among others to guide a Soul in doubtful Cases. The Laws under which we live are particular determinations of the Law of God; and therefore aught to be a rule to us so far as they reach. Though it be too narrow a Rule to be good only so far as man's Law guides unto; yet Law being the joint Reason and consent of many men for public Good, hath an use for the guiding of our Actions that are under the same. Where it dashes not against God's Law; what is agreeable to Law is agreeable to Conscience. Thus the Rule stood when the Book first came out 
* First Edition 1635. pag. 364. . But in a very short time after, when he was newly laid in his grave, the first words were changed into these; The Laws under which we live, are particular determinations of the Law of God in some duties of the Second Table. In which they made two restrictions of that which he had said in General words; First, they restrained the Rule to the Second Table, and not to all things neither, but only some duties. And then they add a whole Sentence, by way of Example, which was not in the first Edition: which I make no doubt was done on purpose, lest any man who read the Book should think it was the Doctor's opinion, that we should conform to the Orders of our Governors about the worship of God, where the Law of God hath determined nothing in particular, and their Laws do not cross his. But what is there done by the Jesuits worse than this! what greater injury to the dead than thus to play tricks with their Books, and change their words at your pleasure?  N. C. 
It is very strange.  C. 
I have something more to tell you. As they have added here, so they have taken away in another place just before it. He is Answering I told you this Question, what course must we take for guidance of our lives in particular actions wherein Doubts may arise, what is most agreeable to Gods will? And one Advice is this; we must look to our place wherein God hath set us. If we be in subjection to others, their Authority in doubtful things ought to sway with us. A dangerous Rule some men thought; and therefore in the next Edition, they left out those words in doubtful things. And also blotted out this whole sentence which follows; It is certain we ought to obey (viz. in doubtful things of which he is speaking) and if the things wherein we are to obey be certain to us; we ought to leave that which is uncertain, and stick to that which is certain: In this case we must obey those that are under God.  N. C. 
Are you sure of this?  C. 
As sure as that I see you: though I must tell you there was a neat device to hid this fraud; for they reprinted the Book speedily with the very same Title page that was before without giving notice, that it was a second Edition: And by leaving out those lines; and adding an example, as I told you; to illustrate the rule as they had restrained it, they made the pages exactly even as they were at the first. 
* There are two Editions of 1635. one of his own, another of some bodies else; but so ordered that they seem the same. At least they reprinted that sheet (wherein these things are contained) with these alterations, which I add lest I should not be rightly understood by all.  Afterward the Book was divided into Chapters: and in all Editions since you will find these Rules (Chapt. 17.) with these alterations.  N. C. 
By his own appointment, it is like.  C. 
Why did they not tell us so?  N. C. 
I know not.  C. 
I'll tell you then: They were loath to tell a plain lie: For the Doctor died within three days after he had writ his Preface to the first Impression; and therefore it's most likely made no Alterations. That Preface was dated July the first 1635. and he died July the fourch. So I gather from those who put out his two last Sermons preached June 21. and 28. and he died, say they, the Lords day following. Immediately after which came out a new impression of the same year 1635. but not called a second Edition: which they would have us believe was not till 1636. A mere cheat as I confidently affirm, having seen and compared all.  N. C. 
I see now you are of an imposing Spirit: and have taken a great deal of pains to show it.  C. 
What? Am I for imposing on men those words they never said?  N. C. 
Be not so perverse. All the Reformed Churches are against imposing of Set Forms, as I have been told.  C. 
As perverse as I am, I'll follow you for once. So you have been told, I believe, that they are against all Set Forms though not imposed: I am sure I have.  N. C. 
No, I remember in the beginning of the late Wars the Scotish Forms of Prayer were printed.  C. 
And so were the French, and those of Geneva, and Guernsea, and the Dutch, to name no more; all translated into English. Therefore pray satisfy some of your Ignorant but yet confident Friend, in this matter. As for that of Imposing; what think you of these words of Mr. Calvin in his letter to the Protector, Octob. 22. 1548. As for Forms of prayer and Rites Ecclesiastical, I do greatly approve that there be a certain one extant, from which it shall not be lawful for the Ministers in their function to departed, etc. For which he there gives solid Reasons. And whatsoever is pretended to the contrary, the Reformed Churches do follow this Counsel; and tie men to a Form in the public duties of God's worship, as I can evidently show. But now let me only observe that heretofore your Ministers thought it no light Argument against the Separatists, that all Reformed Churches acknowledged the Church of England as their sister: and consequently did not think her wicked for imposing Forms of Prayer. So you may read in the Book I told you of before, published by Mr. Rathband, p. 6. though the truth is those Ministers have taken that Argument out of the Book of Mr. Bernard's 
* Errors of Barrow and Greenwood confuted, 1608 pag. 178. ; who speaks discreetly when he saith, That though we do not make this our only or chief defence, whereby we seek to approve ourselves to God, or the consciences of his people; yet it is a thing that gives some reputation to us. For even Saint Paul who received not his calling either from or by men, alleges for the credit of his Ministry, that three chief Apostles approved him, and gave him the right hand of fellowship. And which is more, he seeks to win commendation and credit even to those Orders which he by his Apostolical Authority might have established, by the example and judgement of other Churches 
* For which he citys 1 Cor. 7.17.11.15.14.33.16.1. .  N. C. 
Then you are for imposing.  C. 
I am for that which all men of any discretion think necessary, viz. that every body should not be left to do according to their present humour and fancy, when they come to worship God in the public Assemblies. Even the famous Smectymnuus allowed impositions in some cases. For they propound this as an expedient, that, if it shall appear any Minister proves insufficient to discharge the duty of prayer in a conceived way, it may be imposed on him as a punishment to use a set form and no other 
† Answer to the Humble Remonstrance p. 14. . This was indeed a contrivance to disgrace the Liturgy as if it were fit for no bodies use, but the duller and heavier sort of People: but yet it shows their judgement above imposing, which you now complain of. And I would fain know what they would have done with such insufficient persons as had a good opinion of their gifts; and thinking themselves wronged in being condemned to the forenamed Penance, would not obey them: Would they have forced them to obedience or no? If not; their expedient signified nothing: If they would; then why should not the Magistrate do it now, who knows that most of those who love liberty, have a better opinion of their own abilities than they ought?  N. C. 
We wish the Common Prayer was left at liberty to be used or not, as men found themselves inclined.  C. 
Do you so? That's because you despise it, and think it good for little or nothing. But were there one of your own Inventions to be established, you would never leave us at Liberty, if you had power, to make use of it or let it alone. Nothing should stand in competition with it: but every thing else, as well as Common-Prayer, fall before it, as Dagon before the Ark. Did not the Independents incur your displeasure for craving an allowance to order a few Churches after their own fashion? Mr. Dury himself, I remember, a man of peace and composer of differences resolved their way was not to be tolerated. For it would lay, said he, 
† Epistolary Discourse, p. 21. Licenced by Mr. Cranford, July 27. 1644.  the foundation of strife and Division in the Kingdom to have two ways of Church Government: which may agree with some Matchiavilian, but no Christian Policy. And therefore it will be no wisdom in the State to yield to the Suit of the five Brethren, except it be induced thereunto by the Necessity of avoiding some greater inconvenience, than is the admitting of a seed of perpetual Division within itself, which is in my apprehension the greatest of all other, and most opposite to the Kingdom of Christ. Now the less the cause of separation is; the greater is the fault in those that make it, and the less cause the State hath to give way to the making of it. You remember therefore what Ordinances were made for the electing of Elders: and that all Parishes and places whatsoever, as well privileged and exempt jurisdictions as others, should be brought under the Government of Congregational, Classical, Provincial, and National Assemblies 
a Ordin. of 19 Au. 1645. . And this was according to their solemn promise of settling Uniformity; which part of the Covenant, they said (if you will believe them) was always before their eyes 
b Ordin. 14 Mar. 1645. . In pursuance of which also the City desired 
c Humble Remonstrance and Petition, May 26. 1646. . that some strict and speedy course might be taken for the suppressing of all private and separated Congregations: And the House of Lords ordered the Printing of their Petition: which was grounded upon a Remonstrance 
† Decemb. 15. 1642.  of the House of Commons, wherein they declared that it was far from their purpose or desire to let lose the golden rains of Discipline and Government in the Church; or to leave private persons or particular Congregations to take up what form of Divine Service they please. As for the sacred Covenant, that Holy Ordinance (as Mr. Case calls it) and choice piece of Divine Service; you know no man could be a Minister, or an Elder, no nor practice as an Attorney or Solicitor at the Law, unless he took it: and the refusal of it was generally made a Mark of ungodliness; as I will prove when you please.  N. C. 
I know not what reasons they went by then.  C. 
The same whereby they would proceed now; if they had the same power and the same hopes. And so I believe would the Independents too: who are for imposing their own things as much as they are able. For they have invented, you must know, a Model and form of their own heads which is not appointed in Holy Scriptures. As first, that the Members must be examined and give an account of the manner of their conversion (which is in a certain Method and Form too in New-England) and that before the Church. 
Narration of some Church Courses in N. England by W. R. collected out of their own reports, etc. chap. 4. pag. 16.  Then, it is required that they enter into a Church-Covenant, which is not the Covenant of grace, but distinct from it: (For they acknowledge a man may be within the Covenant of Grace, who is not in this, and one may be in this, who is not in that.) And yet it is a Sacred not a Civil thing: which must be made public before all the Church, vocal and express; so binding that none can be loosed from it without the consent of the Church. And then it is held (at least by many) that the Members must prophecy, i. e. exercise their gifts in and before the whole Congregation, by preaching, expounding, applying the Scripture: by instruction, confutation, Reprehension with all Authority 
† Which they say is an Ordinance perpetual in the Church as we read in Mr. Cottons Catechism.  Now having devised these things, to name no more, I observe that the Covenant in the same Church is in one and the same Form of words, as well as matter; and therefore put into writing; and must be read by the party to be admitted, or he must hear it read by some other and give his Assent to it. Here is not only a Form of Holy Covenant (a principal point of worship as W. R. notes) invented by one or more men; but imposed upon others, even as many as enter into the Church; and more than that, to be read upon a Book. What is this better, or how is it more lawful, than a set form of prayer? especially since this Covenant is imposed as an Ordinance of God, and absolutely necessary; so as no Book-Prayer, I think, is? I find also that by this Covenant, the Members in some places 
† Church of Salem in New-Engl.  were restrained and tied up from showing their gifts in speaking or scrupling; till they were called thereto; that is, they being allowed to prophesy publicly, and so to propound questions and make objections (which they call Scrupling) they bond them up in this Covenant, which had the force of Law, from doing it uncalled. I would fain know whether this be not to limit the Spirit (as you speak) and to stint it to times, as you say we do it to words? For if a man be never so full, he must have no vent without a call from the Church. And how I pray you doth this differ from an Ecclesiastical Canon, as to its force and obligation; but only that it hath another name; and all old Canons must be laid aside, to make way for this new Covenant. They tell us also expressly that the Magistrate may compel men to keep their Covenant; though not to enter into it 
† Ib. Narration of Church Courses, cap. 15. . And for spreading of infectious Doctrines, Mr. Wheelwright a Minister, and Mrs. Hutchinson a pretended Prophetess, were banished the Country. Several of their followers also were some imprisoned, some fined, some disfranchised, some banished, and all disarmed, for petitioning the Court in behalf of Mr. Wheelwright, and remonstrating with due submission (so their words were) that they conceived he deserved no such censure 
a Proceed of the General Court holden at New-Town, Oct. 2. 1637. and the Apology in defence of the proceed holden at Boston, 1636. . And great many more remarkable things there are in that story, which I cannot stand to recite. But must proceed to tell you, that as for others who are not of their way, there is just no liberty at all. For as they will not grant communion to members of other Churches not constituted as they are: so if a company of approved godly people should sit down near them (where their power reaches) differing from them only in some points of Church Government; some of them tell us, not only that they shall not be owned as a sister Church, but also be in danger of severe punishment by the Civil Magistrate 
b Narration etc. cap. 10. .  N. C. 
What is all this to our Independents?  C. 
They extol both the Men and the ways of New-England to the Skies: and therefore approve of them I suppose, not only as good, but as excelling all other. The Men, they say; have testified their sincerity to all generations future by the greatest undertaking, except that of our Father Abraham, viz. leaving this Country to go thither, merely to worship God more purely 
c Apologetical Narration, 1643. pag. 5. . And as for their ways and practices, they are improved to a better Edition and greater refinement, than those of other Reformed Churches 
d Ib.  which makes it reasonable to believe, that when they Covenanted to reform according to the example of the best Reformed Churches, they had New-England in their eyes, as their pattern: For those General words, as Mr. Feak 
e Beam of Light, p. 25.  rightly observes, left it under suspense and undetermined which of the Reformed Churches had obtained the highest degree of Reformation. The Scots and their Friends judged the Kirk of Scotland the best Reform; the Dissenting Brethren, approved the Reformation of New-England to be most excellent. But be this as it will, we have learned thus much from what hath been related; that the Churches of a better Edition and greater refinement, do not think it unlawful to use forms in Gods holy Ordinances; unto which they bind those who come under their Power; restraining them also from opening their mouths, when perhaps they think themselves full of the Spirit: and denying leave to others to set up a different way from theirs, in their Neighbourhood. As for our Independents I can show from their Books, that they think it necessary to be as severe in a great many Cases 〈◊〉 and I remember as heavy complaints of them, as ever they made of the Presbyterians: and have been told that they daily spit their renom privately and publicly, against those that separated from them 
a Vanity of the present Churches, p. 3. and 11. , etc.  N. C. 
It will be too long to relate all those things. But I would fain know how this will stand with Christian Liberty?  C. 
Do you think that it consists in being tied to no Law at all?  N. C. 
None but Gods.  C. 
Take heed what you say.  N. C. 
In matters of worship, I mean.  C. 
That's absurd, as I have shown you. God's Law hath only given us the general rules whereby things to be ordered in the Church: according to which our Governors are to make particular Laws, and we are to obey them; or else there will be nothing but confusion. Yet still our Christian Liberty remains; because, First, we are not tied to this or that pattern or Model, but our Governors have liberty to establish whatsoever (being in itself indifferent) shall seem to them most expedient for maintaining comeliness and Order. And secondly, when any orders are established, this is our Liberty (as our Divines teach you) that we do not use them as any part of Divine Worship (as some of you do) nor as meritorious and satisfactory, nor as necessary to justification or salvation, but only for discipline and good Orders sake. And lastly, by consequence the same Authority may alter them, and hath not so tied up itself to them, but that it is at liberty to abolish those, in case of inconvenience arising, and establish others in the room. But such a Liberty as leaves men lose from all Laws and Orders, save those that they shall choose themselves, is a wild fancy which your Ministers condemn as well as ours. Mr. Dury for instance, (a very moderate Presbyterian) tells the Independent Brethren, We must expect no such Liberty as shall break the Bond of Spiritual Unity, which by the allowance of a public toleration of a different Church Government, may be occasioned. To keep therefore Unity entire, a few must yield unto many, except they can fairly persuade those many to yield to them 
a Epistolary Discourse pag. 22. .  N. C. 
But what if they cannot agree?  C. 
I was going to tell you. If they cannot agree, it is just they should forfeit their Spiritual right and liberty which Christ hath conferred upon them, and fall under the Arbitrament of the Secular Power, which ought to look unto its own safety, lest those that make Divisions and multiply Breaches in the Church about small matters, disturb also by that means the public peace of the State 
b Ib. p. 24. . Of this mind also was Mr. John Cotton (a mild Independent) Good Kings, saith he 
c Upon the 1 Canticles v. 10. pag. 44. Use. 2. , aught to put upon their people wholesome Laws and strait binding to the purity of Religion, and the Worship of God. It is no impeachment to their Christian Liberty, as the Anabaptists dote, but an ornament to their beauty, making their necks comely as with chains of Gold. And a little after 
d Ib. Use 3. , It is no impeachment of Christian Liberty to bow to Christian Laws: Yea, it is the beauty of a Christian Church to wear those chains, those Laws, which were made for the good of the Church; and it ☜ was their profaneness and rebellion that said; Let us break their bands asunder, and cast away their cords from us.  N. C. 
He speaks of those purer Laws which they found out, not such as yours.  C. 
It's as much to my purpose if he did; for it proves he would have the people strictly tied to Laws, and wear these chains always about their necks; and our Governors think theirs as good as any, and so may as innocently bind men fast to them, as you tie them to yours. And let me tell you, both Presbyterians and Independents would have their Orders so strict, that their people should not be allowed the liberty of going to hear where they please. Mr. Edward's 
a Gangraena 1 part. p. 30. Error 125. , I remember, in his Catalogue of Errors, Heresies and Blasphemies, puts down this for one, That it is part of men's Christian Liberty, not to hear their own Ministers, but to go and hear where they will, and whom they think they may profit most by. And the New-England Churches condemned those that said 
b Catalogue of the Opinions condemned by an Assembly of the Churches, Aug. 30. 1637. Error, 80. , if a man think he may edify better in another Congregation than in his own, that is ground enough to departed ordinarily, from Word, Seals, etc. notwithstanding the offence of the Church, often manifested to him for so doing.  N. C. 
But why should there be any penalties?  C. 
You may as well ask me over again, why any Laws? which will be ridiculous without them. But I wonder you are not ashamed to speak against penalties and force, who pressed the Covenant with more severity, than ever any body did Conformity. What crossness is this (as the Bishop of Down said 
c Visitation Speech at Lis●egarvy, 26. August. 1638. ) that when we press men to conform to the Orders of our Church, they allege it is contrary to Christian Liberty to enforce men to the doing of any thing against their Conscience, and that a man should be fully resolved in his own mind of the Lawfulness of that which he doth; and yet we urge that only under pain of suspension and excommunication, and that after much patience and forbearance, using all fair means to persuade them: But they compel men to subscribe the Covenant against their Conscience by Pike and Pistol: threatening no less than loss of life, or goods and Lands in case of refusal? By this we may judge of sincerity, and what they would do in other things, had they Power in their hands. The truth is one could scarce live among you when you had power; for all that would not take the Covenant were held to be Malignants, and if you know not what was to be done with them, an eminent person will tell you.  N. C. 
Who do you mean?  C. 
Do you not remember who it was that complemented the Parliament as the keepers of our Vineyard, and commended them for being wanting in nothing to their duty—  N. C. 
What then?  C. 
You shall hear. He saith they had endeavoured to fence the Vineyard with a settled Militia, and then to gather out the Malignants as stones, and to make a Wine-press therein for the squeezing of Delinquents 
a Epistle before the Sermon to the Commons, 25. Jan. 1643. .  N. C. 
I know not who this was.  C. 
I'll be so civil to his Memory as to let this pass without naming him. But he was one of those you call a moderate Presbyterian, by which we may know what mind the Zealots are of. And as for the Independents, they were for an exact and thorough Reformation too (for that which they were about had cost God dear, they said, and he would not lay out so much for an imperfect, poor and low reformation) and therefore exhorted the Parliament not to spare the lash to effect it: but do as Jesus Christ did when he came to purge the Temple; not only chide the money changers, but whip them away, and overthrow the very Tables, lest they should recover their Trade again 
b See Mr. Bridge Sermon before the Commons, Nou. 29. 1643. p. 24, 25. . Which others delivered in this phrase, Dagon is begun to fall  the Ark; his head is off; but let not so much as the stump remain; i. e. give no Liberty to these Church of England men; let them not enjoy the least relic of their worship. And accordingly you know, I showed you the last time, there was an Ordinance prohibiting the use of Common-prayer under great penalties in any private family, not excepting the Kings 
c Page 218. Of Friendly debate, 3 Edit. .  N. C. 
I remember it; and some say it was an unworthy Construction you make of the words; there was no such intention.  C. 
They had better have held their tongues, for I shall prove it to purpose. When Commissioners were sent down to treat with his Majesty at the Isle of Wight, he was content, as he had expressed himself before, May 12. that the worship of God should be performed according to the Directory for three years: provided only that his Majesty, and those of his judgement who could not in Conscience submit thereunto, might not be obliged to it, but left free to their own way 
a This was Septemb. 29. 1648. . But this would not be granted; for you must know that though the Parliament had Ordained 
b Ordin. of March 1.4 1645. ; the Chapels or places in the Houses of the King and his Children should continue free for the exercise of divine duties without any Elders; yet this was no more than they allowed to every Peer. in the Realm, and those Duties, also were to be performed according to the Directory, and not otherwise. And therefore I find his Majesty was fain for the satisfaction of the two Houses (so his words are) to make a further concession, and to profess he would not insist upon any provision for continuance of the use of the Book of Common-prayer in his Majesty's Chapel for himself and his household: nevertheless he declared he intended to use some other set Form of Divine Service 
c This was 4. Novemb. 1648. . But nothing would satisfy, unless he would do according to the Directory; they would not allow a Set Form in his own House: no, though he declared, in a further explication of his mind, that he could not with a good Conscience communicate in a public Form of Divine Service and Administration of Sacraments, where it is wholly uncertain what the Minister will say to God: and told them he hoped they would not think it reasonable to offer any violence to the conscience of their Sovereign. For in their answer 
d Novemb. 20. ; they tell him twice, though they would not force his conscience, yet desire it may be informed and rectified, that so it might agree with theirs, who were his great Council: that is, they would not call it by that name; but he must either agree to them, or be as he was: And so in fine he was content to wave even a Set Form 
e Reply. Nou. 21. . Do you not see now, how we were deceived by this word Liberty; and that the King himself could have no benefit of it? Had you not a great care of tender Consciences, and were exceeding nice in pressing men to that wherein they were not fully satisfied? Certainly his Majesty had reason to say 
f Declar. of Jan. 18. after votes of no addresses. , If it be Liberty of conscience they desire, he who wants it, is most ready to give it. And what do you think of his Majesty's earnest desire to have some of his Chaplains attend him 
a Which he made February 17. 1646. ? Was it not barbarous to deliberate one moment whether it should be allowed or no; especially by those who cried up Liberty so much? And yet he was fain to renew his Message to them the next month 
b March 6. , and to represent the necessity of it, for the guidance of his Conscience. But still they stop their ears to his desires; for in his Answers to their Propositions 
c May 12. 1647. , he respites his answer to what concerned the Covenant, because he could not give a resolution in a matter of Conscience, till he might be assisted with the advice of some of his own Chaplains, which had hitherto been denied him. Nay, when he was at Carisbrook 
d Message of Aug. 10. 1648. , I find him complaining that he had none about him (except a Barber which came down with the Commissioners) that ever he named to wait upon him. A piece of rigour and barbarism greater than is ever used by Christians to the meanest prisoners and greatest Malefactors 
e Icon Basil.  etc.  N. C. 
I know the words. But what is this to penalties?  C. 
You led me out of the way; and yet not altogether, for you may see by this that Christian Liberty is but a Phrase and signifies nothing, when any but your self challenges the benefit of it. But if you would hear any more of the other. I must tell you the Independents were for some punishments though more mild than yours. For which I must refer you to Mr. Burroughs 
f Irenicum pag. 36. & 37.  (and not stay to recite his words at length) who tells you men may be restrained by Violence from publishing gross Errors, notwitstanding their plea of Conscience: and that some trouble may be laid in their way who hold Errors of less moment, so far as to take off the wantonness of their spirits and neglect of means. Nay, where men by their weakness render themselves less serviceable to the Commonwealth or Church, he saith, they may be denied some privileges granted to others: of which he gives you instances.  N. C. 
What? No respect to tender Consciences?  C. 
Yes. But if a man be proud and turbulent in his carriage and despise his betters, the same Person tells you, you may be sure the Devil is in his will, rather than in his Conscience. For though an erroneous conscience may cause one to hold fast an Error, it doth not put him upon proud, scornful and turbulent behaviour. When a man by reason of his Conscience (it may be the weakness of it) differs from his Brethren, he had need carry himself with all humility and meekness, and self-denial in all things. 
☞ Consider how well you follow this Rule, who are so peremptory and proud, etc.  He should be willing to be a servant to every man in what lawfully he may: that thereby he may show to all, that it is not from any wilfulness, but merely tenderness of his Conscience, that he cannot come off to that, which his Brethren can do; whom yet he reuerences, and in his carriage towards them shows, that he esteems them his betters. But if a man that is weak, very much beneath others in Parts and Graces (he might have said any one that dissents from the Generality of Christians, and his Governors where he lives) shall carry himself high, imperious, contemning and vilifying those who differ from him, and be contentious with them, there is great reason to think the corruption is in the will, rather than any where else. And if there should be some conscience yet in those men, their heart distempers may justly forfeit their right of pleading their conscience. Those who oppose them, if they do it in a Christian way, nay, justify what they do before God, and say to him, when he calls them to an account for their dealing so with those that professed Conscience; Lord, we were willing to have dealt with them in all tenderness, if we could have seen conscientiousness in their carriage; But we saw nothing but scornfulness, pride, imperiousness, turbulence, conceitedness, we could see nothing of the Spirit of Jesus Christ acting them in their way 
* You may read this in Mr. Burroughs. Ib. p. 32. , etc. Thus he also resolves this question, How shall we know a man to be obstinate, when he opposes the judgement of many more godly and learned than himself? 1. If he oppose the common principles of Christianity. 2. If in other matters his carriage be turbulent and altogether unbeseeming a Christian, differing from his Brethren. 3. Where there is neglect of those means of Information, which he hath nothing to say against. Lastly, If he so cross his own principles, that he appear to be self-condemned 
† Ib. pag. 92.  Think, ☞ I beseech you, whether this be not your case.  N. C. 
I have a number of things to say, but I see you are in haste, and therefore will let them alone.  C. 
You may propound them some other time, if upon consideration of these things you be not satisfied. And to save you and myself any further labour, I shall commend a few Directions to you for the guiding of your conscience, and so conclude.  N. C. 
Let's hear them.  C. 
I cannot expect you should bear any respect to my Advice; therefore I will speak to you in another man's words; which are so good, that its pity they should be forgot. They were writ above threescore years ago by Mr. Rich. Bernard, in a Book of his, where he teaches you how to carry yourself in a Church or State so as that you may seek the public quiet of it 
† Christian Advertisements and Counsels of peace, 1608. .  N. C. 
How I pray you? I'll study his counsels.  C. 
First, maintain and uphold all that is manifestly good in it. 2. If there be any manifest evils, labour in your place by the best means to have them amended peaceably. 3. Bear with lighter faults for a time till a fit occasion be offered to have them amended. 4. As for likelihoods of evil make them not apparent evil by ill interpretation; where neither the State intends it, nor so maintains it. 5. Take doubtful things ever in the better part. 6. Judiciously discern between the abuse of a thing and that which may be well used: lest in abhorring the abuse, thou also do utterly condemn the thing itself and the use thereof. 7. Let not the flourishing condition (as thou fanciest it) of any Foreign Church or State, make thee unthankful for the present good thou enjoyest at home, and loath thine own happiness. 8. Mark and hold the difference between these things; the Equity of Law and the Execution; the truth Generally established and professed, and the personal Errors of some. Between soundness of Doctrine and bad Application; between substance and circumstance; between the very being of a thing, and the well being of it; between what is necessary and what is only convenient and desirable; between a Commandment and a Commandment to thee; between what is lawful and what is expedient. 9 Never presume to reform others, before thou hast well ordered thyself. 10. Do not disobey the evident commandment of God: and when there is nothing but probability of sinning in obeying the precept of thy Governors, do not set opinion before judgement. Set aside fancy, and do not refuse to obey Authority, where it is not plain thou shalt sin against God. Be more loath to offend a lawful Magistrate ☞ than many private persons. Where thou canst not yield, there humbly crave pardon. Where thou canst not be tolerated, be contented with Correction for safety of Conscience: and bear what thou canst not avoid, with a patiented mind. Remember that to stand more upon avoiding dislike in private persons, than in offending the public authority, ☞ is no better than an humouring of men to increase discontentedness, rather than to preserve the public peace and welfare. Nay, it is better to cross some men's affections without sin to God, than to neglect most certain Duty, let people perish, open a gap to the enemy, lose thy liberty, and no whit better the Church of God.  N. C. 
O but in this we must be very tender, and disobey men rather than God.  C. 
You should be very tender and careful lest you disobey both: by breaking the commands of your Governors, when in so doing you follow no command of God. For which end he gives you this Rule. As thou mayst not out of policy for fear of trouble, furnish thyself with distinctions and evade thy duty, where the word is plain: so thou oughtest not out of scrupulosity to imagine sin where there is none, and trouble thy Conscience with fear of transgressing, where there is no Law. The one breeds Atheism, the other is the mother of Superstition. Therefore in indifferent things make no question for conscience sake: so it be that neither holiness, merit, nor necessity be put therein, nor used for any part of God's worship, but for Decency, Order and Edification.  N. C. 
But what if I am in doubt; and afraid to use these things you call indifferent?  C. 
In this case he hath given you such good Directions that I need seek for no other. The substance of them is this. You would do well to examine yourself whence your Doubt arises, whether from serious consideration and a judgement convinced; or that it be only a niceness of dislike, coming from a desire not to be troubled with them, or for that thou hast not been used to them, or because some cannot away with them, or from Ignorance and want of knowledge, or perhaps from a godly jealousy and fear of doing amiss (I may add from a natural timorousness and uncertainty of mind which can resolve nothing.) If the ground be not a judgement enlightened and convinced, it is not trouble of conscience, but a dislike that works discontentedness upon some of the former grounds; which must be removed by consideration and settling your judgement upon the Word of God and sound Reason. Nay, it will be fit to consider, whether this doubting do not arise through your own default, by looking out Reasons to increase your dislike, and neglecting to search for Arguments ☜ to give you satisfaction. If this be your Case, as it is certain it is of too many, take as great pains to resolve yourself as you have done to bring yourself into doubting; else you deal but partially. And have a care you be not too highly conceited of yourself, and look upon your own reasons through the vapour of affection.  N. C. 
My scruples are grounded upon this reason; that to make a thing lawful in God's worship, it is not enough that it is not forbidden but it must be commanded.  C. 
Examine well without prejudice what our Divines have replied an hundred times to this, and you will find it an absurd Principle. Or for the present only weigh what he saith, Why should a man be more scrupulous to seek to have a plain command for every thing he doth in Ecclesiastical matters, even about things in themselves indifferent, than about matters politic in Civil affairs? Men in these matters knwo not the ground nor end of many things which they yield unto, upon a General command to obey Authority; and knowing them not to be directly against God's will. And yet our obedience in all Civil matters must be first of Conscience, and, secondly, as serving the Lord; which cannot be without knowledge and persuasion that we do well even in that particular in which we obey: which men usually for conscience sake inquire not into, but rest themselves with a General commandment of obeying lawful Authority, so it be not against a plain commandment of God. What therefore doth let, but that a man may so satisfy himself in matters Ecclesiastical? I must tell you (" saith ☞ he) that the curious searching so particularly into every thing to have full satisfaction, hath so wrought in these days upon men's wits to bring distinctions; that the more men seek in doubt for resolution, the further they are from it.  N. C. 
What shall a man do then?  C. 
He must observe these Rules of that Good man. 1. Keep all main Truths, which are most plainly set down in the Word, or by the Law of Nature engraven on every man's heart. 2. Believe every thing truly and necessarily gathered, by an immediate consequence from the Text. 3. Fellow evident examples fit for him either as a Christian, or his special calling requires. 4. Avoid that which is plainly forbidden, or follows necessarily by an immediate consequence. 5. Fellow true Antiquity and the General practice of the Church of God in all ages, where they have not erred from the evident Truth of God. 6. If thou sufferest (saith he) let it be for known Truth and against known wickedness; for which thou hast example in God's word, or of the holy Martyrs in Church story: But beware of far fetched consequences, or of suffering for new devices, and for things formerly unto all Ages unknown, seem they never so holy and just unto man.  N. C. 
But what if the thing commanded seem to me a sin?  C. 
He answers, some things sinfully commanded may be obeyed without sin, as Joab obeyed David in numbering the People. Secondly, Consider, how dost thou conceive it to be sin? Is it simply so? Show me the prohibition: else where no Law is there is no Transgression. Or is it so accidentally? that is, in the abuse, which may be removed; or in respect of the Ignorance of the Lawfulness, making thee to doubt and fear to offend? Use all diligence for resolution. And if it be not a known sin to thee certainly but only by probability; consider, whether probability of sinning may give thee a sufficient discharge for not obeying a plain Precept, and to neglect necessary Duties otherwise, both to God and man.  N. C. 
Would you have me do things while I am full of scruples whether I may or no? Doth not the Scripture say whatsoever is not of Faith is sin? Rom. 14.23.  C. 
He takes no notice of that place; But since you mention it I'll give you an Answer, not from myself, 
Mr. John Geree Resolution of 10. Cases Licenced by Mr. Cranford, 1644.  whose judgement you value not much, but from a Divine, who, we are told, suffered much under the Bishops. Things wherein doubts arise, saith he, are of a double Nature. First, Such as are merely arbritary and at mine own dispose. These may be left undone without scruple, but not done with it; because the inconvenience of Omission is but a little self-suffering. Such are the things the Apostle speaks off; forbearing the use of our Liberty in eating flesh, or the like case. If a man doubt whether he may do that, or whether he may play at Tables or Cards; the omission here being no more but only denying ourselves a little content, the doubt should make a man forbear. But then there are other things that are not arbitrary but under a command, as coming to the Sacrament, obedience to the higher powers in things lawful. Now if scruples arise about these, and a man doubts he sins if he act, and he also doubts he sins if he forbear; it is neither clear that the thing to be done is sinful, and so to be forborn, nor perfectly clear that it is a duty and so to be done: In this case he must weigh the Scales; and where the Soul apprehends most weight of reason, that way he must incline; though the other scale be not altogether empty. And this done after humble and diligent search, with bewailing our infirmity that we are no more discerning, will be accepted of God. God puts not his people on necessity of sinning; nor can our scruples dispense with his commands.  N. C. 
Sometime I think this is clear and solid Reason; but many Friends think otherwise, and I am loath to offend them by doing these things which our Governors require.  C. 
But consider, First, they may take offence when none is given, 
Bern. Counsels of Peace.  and then the fault is their own, and you not chargeable therewith. Secondly, the Question is whether they be offended in respect of what themselves know, or but led by affection, disliking of other men's dislike. Entreat the former to let thee abound, for such things, in thy own sense; and show them that herein you may Brotherly disagree: for the latter, inform their judgement, if they will yield to reason: If not, then consider. Thirdly, whether thou art bound to nourish up such men in their folly, and to respect their partial affection; being more carried away with an overweening of some men's persons, than any thing at all with the right understanding of the cause. And then, Fourthly, consider the power of the Magistrate, and whether his Authority commanding do not take away the offence which might otherwise be given by a voluntary Act. And, Lastly, that a man should not stand more upon avoiding dislike in private persons, than offence to public Authority; as I said before.  
But alas! as he saith at the end of his Book 
† Separatis Schism adjoined to the other p. 161. , Charity and such like graces are▪ far to seek now adays. Men on all hands judge of things perversely. This they will allow, and that again humourously they will not like. That which maybe justly done well without offence, thereat will others be unjustly offended. Things doubtful, men take sinisterly; yea they dare censure what they never saw: condemn as ill, what they knew not: suspect where they have no cause: gainsay, where there ought to be no contradiction, partial to themselves and rigorous towards others. Authority will rule thus and so, Subjects will obey with Exceptions. Judgement from the word is not so much a Guide, as will and affection in too many are made Masters. These be ill days and contentious: unhappy times, in which men either will do, that they will do of themselves; or else fall to humour parties (not simply receiving a love of the truth for the truth's sake) and so come to pertaking, which doth but increase contention, till all come to confusion: except the Lord in his great mercy prevent the same.  N. C. 
And turn us all to a more moderate course, and there keep us.  C. 
You have read the Book: for those are the words that follow.  N.C. 
No. But I think there is much of truth in what he says: and it had been well if his Counsels had been then followed.  C. 
Alas! they who were chief concerned in them, were so far from following them, that they took no farther notice of them than only to revile him that wrote them.  N. C. 
Methinks none should be so brutish.  C. 
It is as I tell you. Mr. Ainsworth making an answer to this Book, wholly omitted these Counsels of Peace, save only that he once mentioned them, with this haughty censure, that perhaps the Author knew no more than Caiphas what he said. Such men will not grant us able to say any good thing—  N. C. 
But his was an acknowledgement the things were observable.  C. 
True, but you see the men of that Spirit will not regard excellent things, if they be said by those whom they do not love. Mr. Bernard in his reply I think hath given a true description: of them. Schismatics are headstrong, they will not see evident conviction. 
Preface to plain Evidences and Answer to the Fore-speech as Mr. Ainsworth terms it. Published by Authority. 1610.  Self-love makes them judge the best of themselves, but their want of Charity, very badly of others. They beguile themselves with shows of Piety, heat of affection, and with a strong apprehension of things greatly amiss in others. These they can see with both eyes, themselves with neither. Our arguments against them are Paper shot: but their weakest reasons against us (if themselves may judge) are shot of Cannon. They despise every man's endeavour against them, and are in admiration of their own works. Let any man confer with them, and he shall hear it: I myself have sufficient experience of it. All opposing their way, are men, in their judgement, that have no grace, rebellious against the Light. They are presumptuous in censuring; and may give sentence against all men and all Churches in the World; but none may give judgement of them. I hearty wish you all less pride and more humility; less dislike of others, and more charity, with greater dislike of yourselves: the want whereof is the present enemy to lovely Unity, that ever accompanies true Piety; which many pretend, but few truly enjoy. And so farewell.  N. C. 
Do you hear? pray come back.  C. 
Will you never have done? what's the matter now?  N. C. 
I have but one word more. You must not pass too hard a censure upon some Ministers who come not to Church. You know they cannot appear openly because of the Act which forbids them to be in Cities, Market-Towns, etc.  C. 
And yet they are there notwithstanding that Act, and kept meetings against another Act which was lately in force. Why may they not appear any any where in those places as well as in one? In God's house as well as their own or yours? In the face of all the people, as well as before a party separated from the rest? You are a fine Advocate indeed: who now have confessed they are more afraid of the punishment (whatsoever they say) than of the Sin of disobedience. For they break the Law wheresoever they are in those prohibited Cities or Towns, and they would but break it, if they were at Church: only it would be less—  N. C. 
I will stay you no longer. I did not think of this, when the other came into my mind.  C. 
I believe it. You are not wont to lay thing together, and then search them to the bottom. But you think as you talk; suddenly, in a rambling manner, without any coherence: which would never trouble me at all (you may think and speak as you please) if you were not so conceited of yourselves, as if you were the most knowing people, that must give Law and Religion to all others.  N. C. 
There are those can talk as well as you.  C. 
No doubt of it. Let them therefore endeavour to mend the rest. And remember them of such passages as these in your Books, which once they allowed of. No man endowed with right Reason, 
An Alarm by way of Answer to the last warning piece, p. 15. Licenced by Mr. John Downam, with this sentence prefixed. Ye shall have one Ordinance, both for the stranger, and for him that is born in the Land.  but will say there is a necessity of a Government: if of a Government, then of an Uniformity, else it will be confused. Therefore there is a neoessity to suppress all CONVENTICLES; and that all men should observe such Order, Time, Place, and public Gesture, as the Parliament (by the Advice of the Assembly) shall appoint. And no man that hath any use of Conscience in any thing but will acknowledge he is bound in Conscience to obey the Laws of the Land in which he lives, in all indifferent things: Or he is turbulent and deserves censure, even for matters concerning Worship. He that hath the use of Conscience, will make Conscience of the duties of both Tables, as well as one. There is doubtless a Conscience towards God, and a Conscience towards man: This was the Apostles practice, and must be our Rule. Act. 24.16. I exercise myself to have always a Conscience void of offence, toward God and toward men. Once more Farewell.  N. C. 
I thank you.  
THE END.