THE Due right of Presbyteries, OR, A PEACEABLE PLEA FOR THE GOVERNMENT OF THE Church of Scotland, Wherein is examined 1. The way of the Church of Christ in New England, in Brotherly equality, and independency, or coordination, without subjection of one Church to another. 2. Their apology for the said Government, their Answers to thirty and two Questions are considered. 3. A Treatise for a Church Covenant is discussed. 4. The arguments of Mr. Robinson in his justification of separation are discovered. 5. His Treatise, called, The people's Plea for the exercise of prophecy, is tried. 6. Divers late arguments against presbyterial government, and the power of synods are discussed, the power of the Prince in matters ecclesiastical modestly considered, & divers incident controversies resolved. By SAMUEL RUTHERFURD Professor of Divinity at Saint Andrew's. CANT. 6. 10. Who is she that looketh forth as the morning, fair as the Moon, clear as the Sun, and terrible as an Army with Banners? 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 LONDON, Printed by E. Griffin, for Richard Whittaker, and Andrew Crook and are to be sold at their Shops in Paul's Churchyard, 1644. TO The most Noble and Potent Lord Archbald marquis of Argile, one of His MAJESTY'S honourable Privy Council, wisheth Grace, Mercy and Peace. WHo knoweth (most Noble and potent Lord) how glorious it is, and how praiseworthy, when the mighty, and these who are a Psal. 47. 9 called The shields of the Earth, and the Cedars of Lebanon cast their shadow over the City of God? Airy wits and broken spirits chase fame, but fame and glory shall chase him, who is (as the spirit of God speaketh) 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 a Son of courage, and one who hath done b Sam. 23. v. 20. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 many acts for the Lord. The followers of Christ are the sons of Nobles c Omnis sanguis concolor. Franc. Petrarch. All blood is of one colour, holiness maketh the difference. Fortuna vitrea est, tum cum splendet, frangitur. Things we rest on here be made of crystal glass, while they glister, they are broken. Plures tegit fortuna, quam Psal. 84. 11. tutor facit. The world may cover men, it cannot make them secure. But the Lord is a Sun and a shield. What hath Jesus Christ on Earth, which he loveth, as he doth his Church? What a created piece is the true Church? Revel. 12. 1. A woman clothed with the Sun, and the Moon under her feet, and upon her head a Crown of twelve Stars. Her very servants are the e 2 Cor. 8, 23. glory of Christ. Yet is this poor woman in Britain, crying, travelling in birth, pained while she be delivered, because of the Idolatry of the Land, and our defection and apostasy practised, countenanced, tolerated in both Kingdoms. Many graves, many Widows, and the Land turned into a field of blood are the just fruits of many Altars, of Masse-idolls', of Bread worship, of many inventions of men, let then: have a name and flourish in the House of the Lord, and let them be written with the living in Jerusalem who contribute help for the desired birth of the manchild. Prelacy and Popery wither, as in a Land of drought, except they be planted beside Rivers of blood; but the Lord shall build his own Jerusalem. Your honour may justly challenge this little expression of my obliged respects to your Lordship. I acknowledge it is little, though it may have some use. Etiam capillus unus habet umbram suam; one hair casteth its own shadow. Jmpotency to pay debt layeth not upon any the note of unthankfulness, except it be impotency of good will. If I be not a debtor for will, I am nothing. And this I owe, and this Church and Nation may divide the sum with me; for which, wishing to your Lordship all riches of Grace, I stand obliged. Your Lordship's servant at all dutiful observance in Christ Jesus. Samuel Rutherfurd. To the Reader. THere be two happy things (worthy Reader) as a Cassian. de incar. lib. 1. c. 4. Primum est errores penitus non in curr●rc, sec●ndum bene repudiare. one saith, The one is not to err, the other is to escape from the power of error. Time's womb bringeth forth many truths, though truth be not a debtor to Time, because Time putteth new robes on old Truth; But truth is God's debtor, and oweth her being to him only. It is a great evil under the Sun, and the sickness of man's vanity, that the name of holy men should be a web to make garments of for new opinions, but the errors of holy men have no whiteness, nor holiness from men. And it is a wrong that men's praise should be truths prejudice, and men's gain, truth's loss. Yet I shall heartily desire that men herein observe the art of deep providence, for the Creator commandeth darkness to bring forth her birth of light, and God doth so over-aw, with a wise super-dominion, men's errors, that contrary to nature's way, from collision of opinions, resulteth truth; and disputes, as stricken flint, cast fire for light, God raising out of the dust and ashes of errors a new living truth. What mistakes, errors, or heresies have been anent Church government, that vigilant and never slumbering wisdom of Providence, hath thence made to appear the sound doctrine of God's Kingdom. So here Satan shapeth, and God seweth, and maketh the garment. Error is but dregs, by the artifice of all compassing Providence, from whence are distilled strong and cordial waters. And what Antichrist hath conceived for a Hierarchy and humane ceremonies, hath put Christ in his two witnesses in Britain to advocate for the truth and native simplicity of his own Kingdom. But I heartily desire not to appear as an adversary to the holy, reverend, and learned Brethren who are sufferers for the truth, for there be wide marches betwixt striving, and disputing. Why should we strive? for we be Brethren, the Sons of one father, the borne Citizens of one mother jerusalem. To dispute is not to contend. We strive as we are carnal, we dispute as we are men, we war from our lusts b James 4. 1. we dispute from diversity of starlight, and daylight. Weakness is not wickedness, a roving of wit must not be deemed a Rebellion of will, a broken inginne may part with a dead child, and yet be a Mother of many healthy children. And while our reverend and dear Brethren, fleeing the coast of Egypt, and Babylon's wicked borders, aim to shore upon truth, wind may deceive good Sailors, natural land-motions (as when heavy bodies move downward, toward their own (clay Country) are upon a strait line. But Sea-motions of sailing are not by right lines, but rather by Sea-circles. We often argue and dispute, as we sail. Where grace and weight of Scripture make motion, we walk, in a right line, toward God. But where opinion, a messenger only sent to spy the Land of lies, and truth, usurpeth to conduct us, what marvel then we go about truth, rather than lodge with Truth. And Christ his Kingdom, Sceptre, Glory, Babylon's fall, be the material object of opinions, on both sides; And yet the word of God hath a right lithe, that cannot suffer division. In God's matters there be not, as in Grammar, the positive and comparative degrees, there are not here, truth, and more true, and most true. Truth is in an indivisible line, which hath no latitude, and cannot admit of spleeting. And therefore we may make use of the Philosopher's word, amicus Socrates, amicus Plato, sed magis amica veritas. Though Peter and Paul be our beloved friends, yet the truth is a dearer friend: The Sons of Babylon make out-cries of divisions and diversity of Religions amongst us, but every opinion is not a new Religion. But where shall multitude of Gods be had, for multitude of new ways to Heaven, if one Heaven cannot contain two Gods, how shall all Papists be lodged after death? what Astronomy shall teach us of millions of Heavens, for Thomists, Scotists, Franciscans, Dominicans, Sorbonists? etc. But I leave off, and beg from the Reader candour and ingenuous and fair dealing, from Formalists, men in the way to Babylon, I may wish this, I cannot hope it. Farewell. Yours in the Lord, S. R. A Table of the Contents of this Book. A Company of believers professing the truth and meeting in one place every Lord's day, for the worshipping of God, is not the visible Church endued with ministerial power. p. 1. 2, 3. & seq. The keys of the Kingdom of Heaven are not committed to the Church of Believers destitute of Elders, p. 7, 8. The keys are given to Stewards by office, p. 13, 14, seq. The places, Mat. 18. and Mat. 16. fully discussed, by evidence of the text, and testimonies of fathers, and modern writers, p. 14, 15, 16, 17. seq. Power ministerial of forgiving sins, belongeth not to private Christians, as M. Robinson, and Others imagine, p. 20. 21. seq Private Christians, by no warrant of God's Word, not in office, can be public persons warrantably exercising judicial acts of the keys, p. 26, 27, 28. & seq. Who so holdeth this, cannot decline the mere popular government of Morellius, and others, p. 28. These who have the ministerial power by office, are not the Church builded on the Rock, p. 29. The place Col. 4. 17. say to Archippus, discussed, p. 26, 27. The keys not given to as many, as the Gospel is given unto; as Mr. Robinson saith. p. 28, 29. seq. There is a Church-assembly judging, excluding the people as judges, though not as hearers and consenters, p. 32. 33. Reason's why our Brethren of New England allow of Church-censures to the people, examined, p. 33, 34, 35, 36. There is no necessity of the personal presence of all the Church in all the acts of Church censures, p 36, 37. seq. The place, 1 Cor. 5. expounded, p 36, 37, 38. How far Lictors may execute the sentence that is given out, without their conscience and knowledge, p. 41. 42. seq. A speculative doubt ●nent the act, maketh not a doubting conscience, but only a practical doubt anent the Law, p. 43. Ignorance vincible and invincible, the former may be a question of fact, the latter is never a question of Law. p. 43, 44, 45. The command of superiors cannot remove a doubting conscience, p. 45, 46. The conscience of a judge, as a man, and as a judge, not one and the same, p. 46, 47. The people of the Jew's not judges, as Ainsworth supposeth, p. 48, 49. That there is under the New Testament, a provincial and national Church, p. 50. 51. seq. A diocesian Church far different from a provincial Church, p. 52, 53. The place, Acts 1. 21. proveth the power of a visible catholic Church, p. 54, 55. The equity and necessity of a Catholic visible Church, p. 55. 56, 57, 58. How the Catholic Church is visible, p. 58, 59 The Jewish and Christian Churches were of one and the same visible constitution, p. 60, 61, 62. The jewish Church was a congregational Church, p. 61. 62. seq. Excommunication in the jewish Church, p. 62. 63, 64, 65. Separation from the Jewish, and the true Christian Churches both alike unlawful, p. 68 69. The jewish civil state and the Church different, p. 68 69, 17. Separation from the Church for the want of some ordinances how far lawful, p. 71, 72, 73. A complete power of excommunication how in a Congregation, and how not, p. 76. 77. How all are to join themselves to some visible Church. p. 78. 79, 80. The place, 1 Cor. 5. 12 considered, p. 80. That all without are not to be understood of all without the lists of a parishional Church, ibid. & 81. 82. That persons are not entered members of the visible Church, by a Church-covenant, p. 83, 84, 85, 86, 87. seq. That there is no warrant in God's word, for any such covenant, ibid. in seq. The manner of entering in Church state in New England, p. 91. 92. The place, Act. 2, 37, 38. is not for a Church-covenant. ibid. The ancient Church knew no such Church-Covenant, p. 97. 98. No Church-Covenant in England, p. 98. 99 Nor of old, the places Genes. 17. 7. Exod, 19 5. Acts 7. 38. favour not the Church-Covenant, p. 100 101, 102. Nor Deut. 29. 10. p. 104, 105. seq. The exposition of Deut. 29. given by our Brethren favours much the gloss of Arminians and Socinians, not a Church-Covenant, p. 102. 103. 104. 105. A Church-covenant not the essential form of a visible Church, p. 123, 124. The place, 2 Chro. 9 15. 2 Chro. 30. 8. speak not for a Church-covenant. p. 111. 112. Nor doth Nehemiahs' Covenant ch. 10. plead for it, the place of Esai. 56. alleged for the Church-covenant discussed, p. 112. 113. The place Ezech. 20. 27. considered. p 114. 115. And the place, Jer. 50. 5. p 115. 116. And the place, Esay 44. 5. p 116. 117. The place, 2 Cor. 11. 2. violently handled to speak for this Church-covenant, p 118. 119. seq. A passage of justine Martyr, with the ancient custom of baptising, vindicated, p. 121. John Baptists baptising vindicated, p. 121. The place Acts 5. and of the rest durst no man join himself to them, etc. wronged and put under the Arminian gloss, p. 123. 124. The pretended marriage betwixt the Pastor and the Church, no ground of a Church-covenant, and is a popish error, p. 127. 128. Power of election of Pastors not essential to a Pastor all relation, p. 128, 129. It is lawful to swear a platform of a confession of faith, p. 130, 131, 132. seq. Our Brethren and the Arminian arguments on the contrary are dissolved, p. 136, 137, 138. Pastors and Doctors how differenced, p. 140. Of ruling Elders, p. 141. 142. And the place, 1 Tim. 5. 17. farther considered, the place 1 Tim. 5. 17. Elders that rule well examined, p. 141, 142, 143. especially, 144, 145. seq. Arguments against ruling Elders answered, p. 152. 18. seq. The places, 1 Cor. 12. 18. Rom. 12. 8 discussed and vindicated p. 154. 155, 156, 157. seq. Of Deacons, p. 159. 160. seq. The place Acts 6. for Deacons discussed, p. 161. 162. The Magistrate no Deacon, p. 161, 162. Deacons instituted, p. 163. 164. seq. Deacons are not to preach and Baptise, p. 165, 166. seq. Os Widows, p. 172. 173, 174. How the Church is before the Ministry, and the Minestery before the Church, p. 175 176, 177. The Keys and power of ordaining Officers not committed to the Church of believers destitute of Elders, p. 180. 181. 182. Robinson's reasons on the contrary, siding with Arminians and Socinians, (who evert the necessity of a Ministry) are dissolved, p. 182. 183. No Ordination of Elders by a Church of only Believers, but by Elders, in a constituted Church, p. 184. 185. seq. Ordination and Election differ, ibidm Corrupt rites of the Romish Church added to ordination destroy not the nature of Ordination, though such an Ordination be unlawful yet is not invalid and null, p 186. 187, 188. The various opinions of Romanists anent Ordination, ibid. Election may stand for Ordination, in case of necessity, p. 187. Of the succession of Pastors to Pastors, p. 185. 186. Calling of Pastors seems by our brethren's way not necessary, p. 200 Arguments for Ordination of Elders by a Church of only Believers dissolved, p. 189. 190, 191 seq. Believers, because not the successors of the Apostles, have not power of Ordination, p. 192. 193, 194. seq. The Keys, by no warrant of God's word, are given to Pastors as Pastors, according to the Doctrine of our Brethren, p. 197. seq. They side with Sociaians' who ascribe Ordination to sole Believers, p. 200. Election belongeth to the people, p. 201. 202. seq. In the ancient Church this was constantly taught, till Papists did violate God's Ordinance, p. 203. Election of a Pastor not essential to his calling, p. 205. The calling of Luther how ordinary, and how extraordinary, p. 205, 206, 207. seq. The essence of a valid calling, p. 208. 209. How it may be proved by humane testimonies that the now visible Church hath been a visible Church since the days of the Apostles, p. 229. 230. & seq. Since the long continuance of the Waldenses, p. 235, 236. seq. A calling frow the Papists Church as valid, as Baptism from the same Church, p. 237, 238. seq. Robinson's arguments are removed, p. 239. 240. Of addition of members to the Church, p. 241. What sort of Professors, whether true or seeming believers do essentially constitute a visible Church; divers considerable distinctions anent a visible Church, p. ib. 242. 243, seq. The invisible, not the visible Church the prime subject of the Covenant of grace, and of all the privileges due to the Church, and of all title, claim and interest in Jesus Christ, and how by the contrary doctrine our brethren imprudently fall into a gross point of Arminianism, p. 244. 245, 246, 247, 248. seq. The invisible Church hath properly right to the seals of the Covenant, our brethren in this point join with Papists whom otherwise they sincerely hate, p. 242, 205, 251. seq. What sort of profession doth constitute a visible Church p. 356. That Christ hath provided no Pastors as Pastors, for converting of souls and planting visible Churches, is holden by our Brethren, p. 256. The arguments of our brethren for a pretended Church of visible Saints, not only in profession, but also in some measure of truth and sincerity, as the author saith, are dissolved, The way of the Churches of Christ in New England, c. 3. sect. 3 p. 256. 257, 258. Robinson's arguments at length are discussed, p. 268. 269, seq The Lords adding to the Church invisible, no rule for our adding, p. 256. The places Mat 22. & Mat. 13 of the man without his wedding garment coming to the feast, and of the t●res in the Lord's Field discussed, p. 261, 262. 263. The typical Temple no ground for this pretended visible Church p. 263, 264. Nor the place, 2 Tim. 3. 5. p. 261. Nor Rev. 22. 15. without are Dogs, p. 267. 268. And of divers other places and persons at length, in seq. Ordinary and processed hearing is Church-Communion, p. 268, 269, 270 & seq. Excommunicated persons not wholly cut off from the visible Church, p. 272, 273, 274 seq. Sundry distinctions thereanent collected out of the Fathers and Schoolmen, p. 277, 278, 279, 282. Some Separatists deny that the regenerated can be excommunicated, as Robinson; some say only the Regenerated are capable of excommunication, as Peter Coachman, p 279, 280, 281. Of the divers sorts of excommunication and the power thereof p. 282, 283, 295. The reason why Papists debar not the excommunicated from hearing the word, p. 275, 276. How the Seals are due to the visible Church, only in foro Ecclesiastico properly, p. 281. In what divers considerations the word preached is a note of the visible Church, p. 283, 284. seq. The difference betwixt nota and signum, p. 301. And nota actu primo & notificativa, and nota actu secundo, and notificans, p. 285. Arguments of Robinson and others answered, p. 286. 287. Whether discipline be a note of the true church, divers distinctions thereanent, p. 287, 288. The order of God's public worship, p. 228. Of the Communion of the visible Catholic Church, p. 289, 290. The Ministry and Ordinances are given principally to the guides of the Catholic Church, and to, and for the Catholic Church, p. 289, 290, 291. And not to a Congregation only, ibid. 292. Congregations are parts of a Presbyterial Church, p. 293, 294. Christ principally the head of the Catholic Church and secondarily a Spouse, Head, Lord, King of a praticular Congregation, p. 295. The excommunicated is east out of the Catholic visible Church p. 295, 296. A sister Congregation doth not excommunicate consequenter only, but antecedenter also, p. 297. How Presbyterial Churches excommunicate not by power derived from the Catholic visible Church, p. 299, 300. Of the power of the Catholic visible Church, p. 300, 301. A Congregation in a remote I'll hath power of Jurisdiction, p. 302. A Presbyterial Church is the first and principal subject of the Ordinary power of Jurisdiction, p. 302, 303. What power general counsels have and how necessary, p. 304. Power of excommunication not in a single Congregation consociated with other Churches, p. 205, 206. Synods or counsels occasional, rather than ordinary, p. 307. A Congregational Church, how it is by divine right, p. 307. 308 Tell the Church, Mat. 18. not restrained to a single Congregation only, p. 310, 311. The place (Mat. 18. 17. Tell the Church) considered, p. 310, 311, 312, 313, seq. An appeal from a Church that hath lawful power, p. 315. A representative Church, p. 316. The power of a single Congregation, p 320, 321, 322. Matthew 18. Tell the Church, establisheth a Church Court, p. 322, 323, 324. What relation of Eldership do the members of the classical Presbytery bear to the whole Presbyterial Church, and to all the congregations thereof, p. 325, 326, 327, 328 329, & seq. They have power of governing all Congregations in those bounds, and not power of Pastoral teaching in every one of them, ibidem Oncrousnesse of ruling many Churches, whereof the Elders of the classical Presbytery are not Pastors, no more than the onerousnesse of advising that is incumbent to sister Churches, p. 331, 332, 333. The power of Presbyteries Auxiliary, not destructive to the power of Congregations, p 334. 335. A Church-congregationall within a Church Presbyterial, p. 336, 337, 338. Entire power of government in one congregational Church against nature and the order of grace, p. 340, 341. A national Church no judaism, but Christian, p. 342, 343. How Pastors are Pastors in relation to these Congregations, p. 344, 345. And Churches whereof they are not proper Pastors, p. 344, 345, 346. The place, 1 Cor. 5. considered, if it can prove that all the multitude have an interest of presence in all acts of jurisdiction, p. 348, 349, 350. The place Acts 15. for a lawful Synod considered at length, Acts 15. p. 355, 356, 357, 358, 359, 360, 361, 362. & seq. All the requisites of a juridical Synod here, p. 355, 366, 357. The Apostles did not act in this Synod, as Apostles, p. 358, 359, 360. 361, 362, & seq. 368. 369, 370. The power of this Synod not doctrinal only, but also juridical, p. 365, 366, 367. The Church Acts 15. 22. seemeth to be a Synodical Church, p. 346, 347. If the Apostles as infallible did reason in this Synod, p. 371, 372. How the Holy Ghost is in all lawful Synods, p. 373, 374. And what Holy Ghost is meant, ibidem This Synod not a company of counsellors, p. 382, 383, 384. Church power intrinsically in every part of the Church and not derived either by ascending or descending, p. 383, 384. Which is the first Church, and five necessary distinctions, thereanent, p. 384, 385, 386. Presbyterial government warranted by the light of nature, p. 386, 387. Power of censures in this Synod, p. 388, 389, seq. Acts of this Synod could not have been performed by any one man, p. 387, 390, 391. 393. Reason's proving that the Apostles acted in this Synod as Apostles, are removed, p. 391, 392, 323. A power to act Church-acts cannot want a power of censuring the contraveners, p. 396. How the decrees Acts 15. bind all the Churches, p. 398, 399. What was in question Acts 15. p 403, 404. The Apostles proceeding by way of disputing not by apostolic infallibility in this Synod, p. 406, 407. seq. The question Acts 15. a Church question, p. 410, 411. The synagogue of the jews a complete Church though all the Ordinances of God were not there, p. 414, 415. The power of an Oecumenick Synod above a national Church, what it is, p. 416, 417, 418. There is a visible Catholic Church, 1 Cor. 12. p. 418, 419, 420. The Church of Herusalem was a Presbyterial Church, p. 425 427, 428. The Church of Jerusalem an ordinary Christian Church, p. 429, 430, 431, 432. A presbyterial Church after the dispersion, p 438, 439. The Apostles exercised acts of a classical presbytery as ordinary Elders, Acts 6. p. 440. 444. seq. The seals not to be denied to approved professors, though they be not members of a parishional Church, p. 185, 186 seq. Whether the invisible or visible Church hath right to the Seals, p. 188. The visible Church of the Jews, and the visible Church of the Gentiles of one and the same nature and essential constitution, p. 190, 191, 162. Whether for every sin of ignorance there was need of a sacrifice, p. 191. Arguments to prove that only members of a parishional Church are capable of the seals dissolved, p. 192. No strong hand of providence, such as necessary absence from the congregation, as traffiquing, but only morallimpediments maketh men uncapable of the Seals, p. 197, 198. The place, 1 Cor. 5, 12. concerning these who o'er without, again discussed, p. 200, 201. Pastors do warrantably perform pastoral acts in other congregations, than their own, p. 204, 205. seq. The place, Acts 20. 28. discussed. p. 206, 207. The congregation make and unmake Pastors, by our brethren's Doctrine ex opere operato, 207, & seq. Arguments of our Brethren hereanent dissolved, p. 208. That persons are received into the visible Church by Baptism, divers distinctions hereanent, p. 210, 211, 212, 213. The efficacy of the Sacraments handled, p. 202. A fourfold consideration of Sacraments, p. 212, 213. The error of Papists making Sacraments physical instruments, the error of Arminians, Socinians and of our Brethren, making them naked signs, p. 212. 213. Of Sacramental grace, p. 214. Arguments of our Brethren removed, p. 605. 606 607. The mind of Socinians, the difference of a Sacrament and a civil seal most considerable, p. 215, 216, 217, 218, 219, 220. In what case separation is lawful, p. 221. Fundamentals, p. 221. Fundamentals Of fundamentals, superstructures circa fundamentalia, things about the foundation, p. 221, 222. Matters of Faith, and points fundamental different, p. 222. Ignorance of God's matters have a threefold consideration, p. 222, 223. Ignorance of fundamentals, ibidem Knowledge of fundamentals how necessary, p. 223. What are fundamental points, p. 223. How jews and Papists have all fundamentals, and how not, p. 230, 231. The error of Papists hereanent, that the Church's determination maketh fundamentals, p. 224. Nine considerable distinctions anent fundamental points, containing divers things anent fundamentals, p. 224, 225. & seq. Our Brethren ignorant of the nature of a visible Church, p. 231, 232. Neither believing, nor unbelieving essential to the visible Church, ibidem robinson's arguments for separation found light and empty, p. 232. 233. seq. The place 2 Cor. 6. 14. fully vindicated, p. 233, 234. seq. By evidence of the place, fathers and protestant divines, ibid. The place john 17 6, 7, 8. fully vindicated, Robinson his interpretation borrowed from Arminius, and other places and reasons discussed at length, p. 246, 247, 248. seq. Eight distinctions anent separation, p. 253, 254, & seq. Infants of visible professors are to be baptised, p. 255, 256 seq. Arguments on the contrary dissolved, ibid. What right to baptism the child hath from parents, p. 257 seq. Conversion of souls an Ordinary fruit of a sent Ministry, p. 266, 267, 268. seq. Rom. 10. 14. how shall they preach except they be sent, diseussed, divers sending acknowledged by our brethren, p. 269. seq. No warrant for the preaching of gifted personsnot called by the Church in a constituted Church, Six distinctions thereanent, p. 272, 273. seq. Socinians deny the necessity of a sent Minister, p. 271. Robinson expoundeth the place Rom. 10, 14. as Socinians do ibid. & 275 276, 277, 278. Robinson's arguments for preaching of unofficed Prophets, answered, as from Eldad and Medad, p. 281, 282. And 2 Chro. 17. 7. from the Hebrew Text and R. Jarchi Solomon his exposition cleared, p. 282, 283. And Jehoshaphat his Sermon, how Kings may exhort, p. 284, 285. That Christ's disciples before his Resurrection and the seventy disciples were not unofficed preachers, p. 286, 287. And other places, p. 290. As Joh. 4. 28. Luk. 8. 39 Act. 8. 1, 2. 3. p. 291. 292, 293. seq. And 1 Pet. 4, 10. 11. Rev. 11. 3. Rev. 14. 6. fully vindicated, p. 294, 295, 296, 297. That there be no ground for unofficed Prophets, 1 Cor. 14, p. 297, 298, 299. seq. The place Heb. 5. 11. vindicated all objections from 1 Cor. 14. of Robinson, particularly discussed, and found empty and most weak, p. 297, 298, 299, seq. Mr. Coachman's arguments dissolved, p. 305, 306, 307. seq. The way of Church judging in independent congregations examined, p. 308, 309. That there be no peculiar authority in the Eldership, for which Authority of Elders. they can be said to be over the people in the Lord, according to the doctrine of independency of Churches, and their six ways of the Elders authority confuted, p. 311, 312, 313, 314, 315. seq. That independency doth evert communion of sister-Churches, and their seven ways of Churches-communion refuted from their own grounds, p. 324, 325, 326. seq. The divine right of Synods, Ten destructions thereanent, p. 331, 332. seq. The desinition of a general or Oecumenick Synod, p. 332. 333 The place Acts 15 farther considered, p. 334, 335. Synods necessary by nature's Law, p. 336. Papists no friends to counsels, p. 336, 337, 338. seq. 340, 341. Three ways of communion of sister-Churches according to the doctrine of independent Churches confuted, p. 346, 347. seq. How the magistrate hath power to compel persons to the profession of the truth, p. 352, 373. seq. Six distinctions thereanent, 2 part. p. 352, 353. The Magistrate's power over a people Baptised, and over Pagans Magistrates power in matters Ecclesiastical. who never heard of Christ, in this point of Coaction to profession, not alike, p. 353, 354, 355. The magistrates compelling power terminated upon the external act, not upon the manner of doing, sincerely, or hypocritically, p. 355, 356. The magistrates power over heretics, with sundry distinctions thereanent, p. 356, 357, 358. seq. Socinians judgement and Arminians hereanent, p. 359, 360, A farther consideration of compelling, or tolerating divers Religions, p. 361, 362. Some indirect forcing lawful, p 362. Erroneous opinions concerning God and his worship though not in Fundamentals censurable, p 363 364. Divers non Fundamentals are to be believed with certainty of Faith, and the non-believing of them are sinnes punishable, p. 365. 366 367 seq. Arguments on the contrary dissolved and the place Philip. 3. 15. cleared, p 316. & seq. How an erring conscience obligeth, p. 378, 379, 380, 381 seq. Arguments on the contrary answered, p. 383, 384. seq. The Prince's power in Church affairs; Ten distinctions thereanent, p. 391, 392. 393. How the Magistrate is a member of the Church, p. 392, 393. The Prince, by his Royal Office, hath a special hand in Church-affaires. p 393, 394. The intrinsical end of the Prince is a supernatural good to be procured by the Sword and a coactive power, and not only the external peace of the State, Spalleto resuted, p 396, 397, 398. seq. How the Magistrate is subordinate to Christ's mediatory Kingdom, p 402, 403, 404, seq. The ordinary power of the Prince is not Synodical teaching, or making Church-Lawes, p. 403, 404, 405, 406. seq. The influence of the Princes civil power in Church-Canons, p. 409. 410, 411 seq. The government of the visible Church spiritual, and not a formal part of the Magistrates Office, p. 417, 418. seq. The power of Ordination and Deprivation not a part of the Magistrates Office, p. 427, 428. seq. Instances from David, Solomon, Ezechiah, etc. answered, and our Doctrine and Jesuits differenced, p. 438, 439. seq. Difference betwixt the Prince's commanding Church-duties, and the Churches commanding these same, p. 417, 418, seq. The King's ordinary power to make Church-Lawes examined, p. 438, 439, 440. seq. The intrinsical end of the Magistrate a supernatural good, p. 442, 443, 446, 447, 448. The Pope's pretended power over Kings, protestants contrary to to Papists herein, what ever the author or Popish libeler of the survey, and the night-Author of Treason Lysimachus Nicanor say on the contrary, p. 449, 450, 451, 452. seq. The way of Reformation of Congregations in England, according to the independent way, examined, p. 457, 458. The original of Church-Patronages, p. 459. And how unwarrantable by God's Word, p. 462, 463. Other ways of Reformation of England according to the way of independent Churches modestly considered, as about maintenance of Ministers, and replanting of visible Churches there, p. 464, 465, 466. seq. Errata. THe Author could not attend the Press, therefore pardon errors of the Printing; Observe, that the Author was necessitated to make some occasional addition to the mids of this Treatise which occasioned-variation of the Figures of the Pages, and therefore stumble not, that when the Book cometh to page 484 the next page not observing due order, is page 185. 186 and so forth to the end of the Treatise, page 60. title of the page 60, etc. page 61, 62. 64. deal not; and for, not of the same essential frame, etc. read of the same essential frame, etc. page 484, line 22, Churches their persecution, read Churches through their persecution, for page 229 read 209. for page 259. read 269. for. p. 484. r. p. 498. יהוה THE Way of the Church of Christ In NEW ENGLAND, Measured by the Golden Reed of the SANCTUARY. Or, The way of Churches walking in brotherly equality and independence, or coordination without subjection of one Church to another, examined and measured by the Golden Reed of the Sanctuary. Propositions concerning the supposed visibility and Constitution of independent Churches, examined. CHAP. 1. SECT. 1. PROP. 1. THe Church which Christ in his Gospel hath instituted, The way of the Churches. and to which he hath committed the keys of his Kingdom, the power of binding and losing, the Tables and Scales of the Covenant, the Officers and Consures of his Church, the Administration of all his public worship and Ordinances, is, coetus fidelium, a company of Believers, meeting in one place, every Lord's day, for the administration of the holy ordinances of God to public edification. 1 Cor. 14. 23. 1 Because it was a company whereof Peter confessing and believing was one, and built on a rock, Mat. 16. 18. a Such as unto whom any offended brother might complain, Mat. 18. 17. 3 Such as is, to cast out the incestuous▪ Corinthian, 1 Cor. 5. Which cannot agree to any diocesian, provincial, or national assembly. Ans. From these we question. Quest. 1. If a company of believers and saints builded by faith, upon the rock Christ, and united in a Church-Covenant, be the only instituted visible Church of the New Testament, to the which Christ hath given the keys: Let these considerations be weighed. 1. Dist. The matter of an instituted visible Church is one thing, and the instituted visible Church is another, as there be odds betwixt stones and timber, and an house made of stones and timber. 2 Dist. It is one thing to govern the actions of the Church and another thing to govern the Church, the Moderator of any Synod, doth govern the actions of the Synod, but he is not for that a Governor, Ruler, and Pastor of the Synod. Or, ordering actions, and governing men are divers things. 3. Dist. A thing hath first its constituted and accomplished being in matter, form, efficient and final causes, before it can perform these operations and actions that flow from that being so constituted, a Church must be a Church, before any Ministerial Church actions can be performed by it. 4. Dist. It is one thing for a company to perform the actions of a Church mystical and redeemed of Christ, and another thing to perform actions ministerial of a Church instituted and ministerial. 1. Concl. A company of believers professing the truth is the matter of the Church, though they be saints by calling and builded on the rock, yet are they but to the Church instituted, Trelcat. loc. 16. a●t. ●. Tylen. Syntag. disp. 14. de Eccl. as stones to the house. 2. Because they cannot perform the actions of a constituted Church, till they be a constituted Church. 3. Our Divines call men externally called, the matter of the visible Church, so Trelcatius, Tilenu●, professors dis. 1. Thes. 19 Profess. layed. synop pur. Theol. dis. 4. thes. 34. 35 Piscator dis. 23. n. 15, 16. Bucan. loc. 41. quest. 7. s. 5. of Leyden; Piscator, Bucanus, so say our brothers. 2. Concil. Ordination of Pastors, and election of Officers, administration of the seals of grace, and acts of Church censures, are holden by God's Word, and by all our Divines, actions of a ministerial and an instituted visible Church, and if so, according to our third distinction. It is a wonder how a company of Believers united in Church-Covenant, cannot perform all these, for they are Answer to Quest. 2. united, and so a perfect Church, and yet cannot administrate the Sacraments: for though they be so united, they may want Pastors, who only can perform these actions, as this Way of the Church. Ch. Sect, compare with. chap. 2. Robin's. justify. pag. 106. Confess. Separ. art. 37. Treatise saith, and Robinson and the Confession. And it is no less wonder that Officers and Rulers who are to feed, and govern the Flock, are but only accidents and not parts, not integral members of a constituted Church: no perfect Corporation maketh its own integral parts or members, a perfect living man doth not make his own Hands, Feet, or Eyes, the man is not a perfect one in all his members, if all the members be not made with him; but Officers by preaching make Church-members. 3. Concl. The visible Church which Christ instituted in the Gospel is not formally a company of believers meeting, for public edification, by common and joint consent, as this Author saith. 1. The instituted Church of the New Testament is an organical body of divers members, of eyes, ears, feet, hands, of Elders governing, and a people governed. 1 Cor. 12. 14, 15. Rom. 12. 4, 5, 6. Act. 20. 28. But a company of believers, meeting for public edification by common consent, are not formally such a body; for they are a body not Organical, but all of one and the same nature, all believers and saints by calling, and are not a body of Officers governing, and people governed; for they are, as they are a visible Church, a single uncompounded body, wanting Officers, and are as yet to choose their Officers: and all thus combined are not Officers, Rom. 10. 14. How shall they preach except they be sent? 1 Cor. 12. 29. Are all Apostles? are all Prophets? we justly censure the Papists, and amongst them, Bellarmine, who will scarce admit an essential Church of believers, but acknowledgeth other three Churches beside, to wit, a representative Church of their Clergy only, excluding the Laickes Bell de Eccl. li. 3 cap. 2. (as they call them) 2 A consistorial Church of Cardinals. 3. A virtual Church, the Pope who hath plenitude of all power in himself, against which our writers Calvin, Beza, Tilenus, junius, Bucanus, professors of Leyden, Whittaker, willet do dispute; so the other extremity can hardly be maintained, that there is an instituted, visible, ministerial Church to which Christ hath given the keys of the Kingdom of Heaven, exercising Church actions, as to ordain, and make and un-make Officers and Rulers without any officer at all. The major of our proposition is granted by our brethren, who cite, 1 Cor. 12. Rom. 12. Acts 20. 28. To prove a single Congregation to be the only visible Church instituted in the New Testament. Nothing can be said against this, but a Church of Governors and People governed is an instituted visible Church; but there is an instituted visible Church before there be Governors, but such an instituted Church we cannot read of in God's Word, which doth and may exercise Church acts of government without any Officers at all. 2. That company cannot be the Church ministerial instituted by Christ in the New Testament, which cannot meet all of them, every Lord's day, as the Church of Corinth did for administration of the holy Ordinances of God, and all his Ordinances to public edification; for so this Author describeth a visible instituted Church, 1 Cor. 14. 23. But a company of believers meeting for public edification, by joint and common consent cannot meet for the public administration of all the Ordinances of God, 1. They cannot administer the seals of the Covenant being destitute of the Officers, as the Scripture, and their confession saith, 2. They cannot have the power of public edification, being destitute of Pastors, because the end cannot be attained without the 1 Cor. 11. 23. Mat. 28. 19 1 Cor. 1. 17. Confess. art. 37. means appointed of Christ. But Christ for public edification and Church edification hath given Pastors, Teacher's and other Officers to his Church Eph. 4. 11. 1 Tim. 5. 17. I● is not enough to say, that such a company meeting hath power of Pastoral preaching and administration of the Seals of grace, because they may ordain and elect Officers, for such public edification, but 1. we prove, that that which our brethren call the only instituted visible Church of the New Testament, hath not power to administrate all the Ordinances of Christ, and how then are they a Church? can we call him a perfect living man, who cannot exercise all the vital actions, which flow from the nature and essence of a living man? 2. If this be a good reason that such a company should be the only instituted Church in the New Testament having power of all the Ordinances, because they may appoint Officers, who have such a power; then any ten believers, who have never sworn the Church-Covenant, meeting in private to exhort one another is also the only instituted Church ministerial, in the New Testament, for they have power to make such Officers, and may invest themselves in right, to all the Ordinances of Christ, by our brother's Doctrine, 3. All the places cited by the Author, speak of a Church visible made up of, Officers governing, and people governed & as Mat. 16. Mat 18. cannot exclude Pastors who bind on Earth, and in heaven, or Pastors who are stewards, and bear the keys, as hereafter, I shall prove. Also the Church of Corinth did meet for the administration of the Lords Supper, 1 Cor. 11. 20. and so were a Church of Officers and governed people, they met with Paul's spirit, and the authority of Pastors. 1 Cor. 5. 4. another Church that exercised Discipline, as Colosse Col. 2. 8. was a Church of Officers and people Col. 4. 17. Philippi consisted of Saints, Bishops, and Deacons. Phil. 1. 1. 2. Ephesus of a flock, and an eldership, Acts 20. 28. so the visible ministerial Church that the word of God speaketh of, as all the seven Churches of Asia and their Angels, had in them Officers to govern, and people governed, and therefore they were not a number of sole. believers united in a Church-covenant, which in very deed i● but stones and timber, not an house builded of God; for in the ministerial Church of the New Testament, there is e●e● a relation betwixt the Elders and the flock: we desire to to see a Copy of our brethren's instituted visible Church, to the which Elders are neither essential, nor integral parts, for their instituted visible Church hath its complete being and all its Church-operations, as binding, losing, ordaining of Officers, before there be an Edldership in it, and also when the Eldership is ordained, they are not Eyes and Ears to the instituted Church, nor watchmen, because it is a body in essence and operation complete without officers. 2. the officers are not Governors, for as I trust to prove, they have no act of ministerial authority of governing; over the people by our brethren's Doctrine, 2. all their governing is to Rule and moderate the actions of the whole governing Church, which maketh them no ways to be governor's, nor over the believers in the Lord, nor overseers, nor watchmen: as a Prese who moderateth a judicatory, a moderator in a Church-meeting, a Prolocutor in a convocation, is not over the judicatory, Synod, or meeting, or Convocation. 3. The Eldership are called by them, the adjuncts, the Church, the subject: the subject hath its perfect essence without its accidents and common adjuncts. 2 Quest. Whether or not Christ hath committed the Keys of the Quest. 2. Kingdom of Heaven, to the Church of Believers, which as yet wanteth all Officers, Pastors, Doctors, etc. The Author saith, this company of believers and Church which wanteth Officers, and (as we have heard) is complete without them, is the corporation to which Christ hath given the keys of the Kingdom of Heaven; which deserveth our brotherly censure: for we then ask a Scripture for the Lords giving of the keys to Pastors and Elders; if the keys be given to Peter, Mat. 16. as a professing believer, by what Word of God are they given to Peter, as to an Apostle and Pastor, it would seem the Pastors have not the keys jure Divino; for by this argument our Divines prove the Bishop not to be an Office of power and jurisdiction above a Pastor and Presbyter, because the keys were not given to Peter as to the Archbishop, but as to a Pastor of the Church, and indeed this would conclude that Pastors are not Officers of authority and power of jurisdiction, jure Divino. Hence the question is, if it can be concluded that the keys of of the Kingdom of Heaven, Mat. 16. Mat. 18. were given to Peter, as he represented all professing believers, or if they were given for the good of professing believers, but to Peter as carrying the person of Apostles, Pastors, and church-guide? 1. Distinction, There is one question of the power of the keys, and to whom they are committed, and another of the exercise of them, and toucheth the government of the Church, if it be popular and democratical or not? 2. Dist. It is not inconvenient, but necessary that Christ should give to his Church, gifts, Pastors and Teachers, of the which gifts the Church is not capable, as a subject as if the Church might exercise the Pastor and Doctor's place: and yet the Church is capable of these gifts, as the object, and end, because the fruit and effect of these gifts redoundeth to the good of the Church, see a Parker de po●it. Eccl. l. 3. c. 8. Parker, see the b C●hol. Paris. pag. 8. Parisian school and c Paul Baynes docesart tyrall. 3. q. concls. 3. pa. 83. Bayner. 3. Distinct. There is a formal ordinary power, and there is a virtual or extraordinary power. 1. Concl. Christ jesus hath immediately himself without the intervening power of the Church or men, appointed offices and Officers in his house, and the office of a pastor, and Elder is no less immediately From Christ (for men as Christ's Vicars and Instruments can appoint no new Office in the Church) than the office of the Apostles, Eph. 4. 11. 1 Cor. 12. 28. Mat. 28. 19 The Offices are all given to the Church immediately, and so absolutely, and so the power of the keys, is given to the Church the same way. But the Officers, and key bearers now are given mediately, and conditionally, by the intervening mediation of the ruling and ministerial Church, that she shall call such and such, as have the conditions required to the office by God's Word, 1. Tim. 3. 12, 3. Hence we see no reason, why the keys can be said to be given to believers, any other ways, then that they are given for their good. 2. Concl. I deny not, but there is a power virtual, not formal in the Church of believers, to supply the want of ordination of pastors, or some other acts of the keys simply necessary, hic & nunc; this power is virtual, not formal, and extraordinary not ordinary, not official, not properly authoritative, as in a Church in an Island, where the pastors are dead, or taken away by pest or otherways, the people may ordain Pastors or rather do that which may supply the defect of ordination, as David without immediate Revelation, from Heaven to direct him, by only the Law of nature, did eat shewbread; so is the case here, so answer the casuistes and the schoolmen, that a positive Law may yield in case of necessity, to the good of the Church; so a Thom. 22. q. 28. art 10 ad 2. Thomas b Molina tom. 6 tract. 5. dis. 57 n. 6. Molina c Suarez. Tom. de legib. lib. 2. cap 15. Suarez d Vasq. 12. dis. 129. cap. 2. Vasquez e Viguertus in institut Theol. cap. 15. s. 1. Vigverius, f Sotus de instit li. 2. q. 3. art. 8. Sotus g Scotus 3. dist. 37. quest. 1. Scotus h Altisiodore. l. 3 sum tract. 7. cap. 1. Qu. 5. Altisiodorensis i Durandus 1. Durand k Gabriel. 3. dist. 37. q. 1. Art. 1. Concl. 2. Gabriel, and consider what the learned l Voetius des. causa. pap. li. 2. c. ca 21. sect. 3. 6. Voetius saith in this. What if in an extreme case of necessity, a private man, endued with gifts and zeal should teach publicly, after the example of the faithful at Samosaten. Yea and Flavianus and Diodorus preached in Antioch, as m Theodo. l. 4. ca 14. c. 24. Theodoret saith; yea, saith Voetius, an ordinary ministry might be imposed on a Laic, or private person by the Church, though the presbytery consent not, in case of necessity. God (saith n Gerson par. 2. Sermon Rhen. dom. 2. postpashat Gerson) may make an immediate intermission of a calling by Bishops; yea (saith o Anton. 3. l. 3. c. 83. Anton. speaking of necessities Law) The Pope may commit power of Excommunication, quia est de jure positive, pure Laico & mulieri, to one mere Laicke, or a woman; though we justify not this, yet it is hence concluded that God hath not tied himself to one set rule of ordinary, positive Laws: a captive woman (as Socrates saith) preached the Gospel to the King and Queen of Iberranes, and they to the people of the Land. 3. Concl. The Author in the foresaid first proposition, will have no instituted visible Church, in the New Testament, but a congregational or Parishional Church, that meeteth together ordinarily, in one place, for the hearing of the Word. But we think, as a reasonable man is the first, immediate and principal subject of aptitude to laugh, and the mediate and secondary Subjects are, Peter, john and particular men, so that it is the intention of nature to give these and the like properties, principally and immediately, to the speci●e, and common nature, and not immediately to this or that man; so are the blessings of the promises, as to be builded on a Rock; victory over hell, and such, given principally and immediately to the Catholic and invisible Church, as to the first and principal subject; and no ways to a visible Congregation consisting of 30 or 40. professing the Faith of Christ: but only to them, not as Professors, but to them as they are parts and living members of the true Catholic Church. For sound professors, though united in a Church-covenant, are indeed the mystical Church, but not as professors, but as sound believers, and therefore these of whom Christ speaketh, Mat. 16. Are builded on a Rock, as true believers; but the keys are given not to them, but for them, and for their good, as professors making Peter's confession, and in God's purpose to gather them into Christ. But the Text evinceth that these keys are given to Peter, as representing the church-guide especially, though not excluding believers, giving to them popular consent, and not to Believers, as united in a company of persons in Church-covenant, excluding the Elders. 1. To that Church are the keys given, which is builded on the rock as a house, the house of wisdom, Prov. 9 1. The house of God, 1 Tim. 3. 15. Heb. 3. 4. By the Doctrine of the Prophets and Apostles, by Doctors and Teachers, whom Christ hath given, for the building of his house, Eph. 4. 11. But this house is not a company of professing believers united by a Church-covenant and destitute of Pastors and Teachers, but a Church edified by the Word, Seales, and Discipline: Ergo such a Church is not here understood. The propofition is granted by the Author. I prove the assumption. The Church of believers combined in Church-covenant, but wanting their Pastors and Teachers, is not wisdom's house, nor builded by pastors and Doctors given to edify and gather the body, but they are only the materials of the house: yea wanting the pastors, they want Ministerial power, for pastoral preaching and administrating the Seals, and for that, they want the power of edifying the body of Christ, which is required in a visible Church Eph. 4. 11. Though the building of this Church on the Rock Christ may well be thought to be the inward building of the Catholic and invisible Church in the Faith of Christ, yet as it is promised to the Church, to the which Christ promiseth the keys of the Kingdom of Heaven, it can be no other beside external and Ministerial building by a public Ministry. 2. Arg. To these are the keys here promised, who are stewards of the mysteries of God, 1 Cor. 4. 1. And servants of the house by office, 2 Cor. 4. 5. And are by office to open the doors and behave themselves aright in God's house, 1 Tim. 3. 16. and to divide to these of the house their portion in due season, Mat. 24. 45. and to cut the word, 2 Tim. 2. 15. But a company of professing believers joined together in a Church-covenant, and destitute of officers, are not stewards by office, nor servants over the house, etc. Ergo, to such a company the keys are not here given. The proposition especially is to be proved (for the assumption is granted by our brethren and evidently true) but it is sure by the phrase of Scripture, Esai. 22. 22. And I will lay upon his shouldier the key of the house of David. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Clavis a 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 apperuit, proveth this. a Shindler in Lexico. Shindlerus in Lexico, metonymicè significatur, Authoritas, Facultas, potestas omnis gubernationis, iubendo, ac vetando, expediendo ac coercendo, power of government b Muscul. come. in Is. 22. 22. Insigne acceptae potestatis, Occonoms & Praeposito domûs commendantur claves, quibus potestatem suam administret. Musculus, so c Calvin comment ib. Gualther Homil. 114. Claves symbolum potestatis, regibus Claves offerunt Calvin: these who are made masters of households receive keys, whereby they open and shut, it is a token of power given to Kings d junius. Plenam administrationem junius, it noteth a full government, by this borrowed speech, saith e Beza in. Ma. aunot. Potestas Ministrorum, in Mat. 16. Beza, is signified the power of Ministers, Isai. 22. Mat. 16. f Pareus. domus meae faciam te aeconomum Pareus. I shall make the steward of my house, g Hieron. Clavis, potestas excellentiae Hierom the key is a power of excellency, and h Chrysostom. Homil. 55. in Mat. Magnam potestatem Chrysostom, i August. de civet. de lib. 20. ca 9 potestatem pastoris Augustine, k Beda in johan. Clavis est potestas ligandi & solvendi. Beda saith the same. a li. de fide ad Pet. Fulgentius calleth this the power of binding and losing given to the Apostles; so other Scriptures expound the keys to be a power of office, as Esa. 9 6. And the government shall be upon his shoulder, Interpreters say, David's keys are given here, Rev. 3. 7. These things (saith he) that hath the key of David, who open●h and no man shutteth, and shutteth and no man openeth, Rev. 1. 18. I have the keys of hell and death, Rev. 9 1. And to him was given the key of the bottomless pit; so b Stephan. in thesaur. ling. Graecae. Stephanus on the word, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, Clavis. c Whittakee tom. 2. contr. 4. c●. 5. Whittaker, it signifieth a power of office given to some, and not to all; as d Calvin. ib. dissert. de Apostolatu Petri. Calvin here (saith he) Christ speaketh of Peter's public office, that is, of his Apostleship e Bullinger ib. so, Bullinger, f Erasm. Para. Erasm. g Zwinglius. Zwinglius h Marlorat come. Marlorat, i Pareus. ib. Pareus on the same place. I think, while of late, never interpreter dreamt, that in the Text, Mat. 16. the keys of the Kingdom of Heaven are given to all believers, but only to the stewards of the house builded upon the Rock. 3. Arg. To these in this Text doth Christ give the keys, to whom he giveth warrant, for the actual exercise of the keys, to wit, to bind and lose on Earth, and so open and shut the doors of the Kingdom. But this warrant and official authority of binding and losing, Christ giveth to Peter only as representing Apostles, Teachers and Elders, and not to the Church of believers convened covenant-ways, and destitute of Officers; Ergo, the proportion is clear in the Text; to the same person, to whom the promiseth the power or keys, to the same he promiseth Official warrant to exercise the special acts of the keys, but to Peter is the promise of both made 19 and if Christ allude to the place, Is. 22. 22. Then (I say) these to whom Christ gave the keys, do by Office represent him who hath the keys of David's house and the Government on his shoulder, And I will give to thee the Keys of the Kingdom of Heaven, there is the power and authority granted; And whatsoever thou shall bind on Earth, shall be bound in Heaven: there is a warrant, for the exercise of the acts of the power given also to Peter; Now if the keys be not given to Peter as to a Pastor; Peter and pastors, by this place, as pastors, neither have the keys, nor official warrant to preach, and to remit, or retain sins; and if by this place, they have it not, we desire to see a warrant from Christ, before he went to heaven, for pastoral preaching a Beza. Ministerii Ecclesiastici, authorit●● caelestis. Beza in his marginal notes in this Text, saith, here is the Heavenly authority of the Church Ministry; also binding and losing is all one, with opening and shutting Heaven Gates, and with remitting and retaining sins, joh. 20. Papists, I know, deny that the Apostles were made priests judicially to remit sins before Christ's Resurrection, joh, 2. so b Tolet comment in Joan. in loc. an. 21. the Cardinal Tolet, and c Maldonat. Harm. in loc. Maldonat d Cajetan. come. in joh. 20. 23. ideo hoc in loco instituitur & promulgatur sacramentum paenitentiae. Cajetanus; but the Truth is, what is given here Mat. 16. Is but repeated and enlarged Joh 20. And they are now sent to the whole World, whereas before they were to preach to judea only, but this joh, 20. e Rolloc. ib●cpetita & reiterata potestas. (saith Rollocus) is but a reiterated power, it was given before his Resurrection, and f Beza in ani. mad. in Mat. 16. sicut Ioannes iuterpretatur in sra. c. 21. Beza saith the same, and g Bulling. Mat. 16. Bullinger saith, the promise is made here and fulfilled joh. 2 c. and h Pareus. Quicquid solveris, id est, Joh. 20. quorum peccata remiseritis. Pareus expoundeth (what thou shalt lose) here by these words joh. 20. So i Calv. instit. 4. ca 6. Calvin k Whittaker. tom. 2. contr. 4. q. 2. ca 5. Whittaker l Zwinglius come. Zwinglius m Asuscul. in Joh. 21. Musculus, Now this same n Way of the Church of n. E. ca 2. sect. 9 Author acknowledgeth that joh. 20. Christ gave pastoral power to all the Apostles to forgive sins. 2. To bind and to lose, are act. s of official power, and of Princes, Rulers, and Feeders, Ergo they are not given to the Church destitute of Feeders and Governors. I prove the antecedent. 1. To bind and lose, by all Interpreters, Augustine, Cyrill, Chrysost. C●prian, Euthymius, Hyeromi, Basilus, Ambrose, Sedulius, Primasius, and by our own Calvin, Musculus, Gualther, Pareus, Beza, Zwinglius, Rolloc, Whittaker, and the evidence of Scripture, i●, by public and pastoral preaching, to re●nit and retain sins, to believers or unbelievers; and o Bulling. in loc. Mat. 16. Bullinger comment, Mat. Bullinger saith it is taken from the Scripture Isa. 52. 49 v. 9 where Christ is said to lose the prisoners, and so p Muscul. ibid. Musculus q Beza an. Beza, and r Calvin comment Calvin will have them to be words signifying the official authority of Princes, Ambassadors, to set at liberty prisoners, or to cast malefactors in bands and prison, as Magistrates and Rulers do, so binding in Scripture s Psa. 105. 27 Judg. 15. 10. Psal. 149. 8. Mat. 22. 13. Acts 21. 11. Acts 22. 4. Mark. 3. 37. is an authoritative act of Princes, Superiors, Governors and Rulers. And so is lo●sing a judicial and authoritative act of Rulers and Overseers l Levit. 14. 7. Psal. 102. 20. Jer. 40. 4. Ps. 105. 20. Act. 2. 24. Rom. 7. 2. 1 Cor. 7. 27. Rev. 20. 3. Rev. 9 15. Job. 12. 18. as Scripture teacheth us. But the Church of believers wanting their Officers, watchmans, and Overseers, though combined in a Church Covenant, is not a company of Overseers and Rulers, or judicial and authoritative binder's and loser's exercising power over themselves. 4. Arg. If Christ do not say in this place, nor in Mat. 18. that the keys and the acts of the keys, to wit, binding and losing, are given to the Church of believers, without their Officers; then neither places prove, that the keys are given to such a Church. But Christ doth not say it; Ergo, the Text cannot bear it: the assumption I prove. Christ, Mat. 16. 18. speaking of the Church builded on a Rock, saith not, I will give to the Church so builded, the keys; but he turneth the speech to Peter, when he promiseth the keys V. 19 And I will give to thee, (Peter, not to the Church) the keys of the Kingdom of Heaven, surely none needeth to teach our Lord to speak. This change of the persons to whom the keys are promised, wanteth not a reason. Our brethren say, the promise is made to Peter, because he gave a confession of Christ in the name of all believers, and because the keys are given to believers, as the Spouse of Christ, and as his body united to him: but this author, granteth every company of believers, because they are believers, are not an instituted visible Church, but they must be a company of believers professing covenant-ways Faith in Christ, and Church-communion. But, 1. then the keys are not given to believers because they are believers, and the Spouse of Christ, but because they are such professors, so and so combined in a Church-covenant. But yet I ask, whether true or false profession be the nearest intervening cause of these, to whom the keys are given. If a true profession, then. 1. Unbelieving Pastors are not Pastors; for their profession is not true. And children baptised by them are as not-baptized, or as baptised by Women, 2. If one shall be excommunicated by seven (for such a Cap. 3. Sect. 1. a number this Author requireth to make a visible Church) even, clavae non errante, and most deservedly, he is not bound in Heaven, and excommunicated, in foro Dei, before God: for the profession of these seven may be false, and so the Church acts performed by them, are a non habentibus potestatem, and null, if they be no Church, 3. We can prove by Scripture b Mat. 10. 2. Joh 6. 70. Acts 17. 20. 21. that judas though the child of perdition, was a called Apostle. But if a false profession be sufficient to make persons a true visible Church, the●. 1. The keys are not given to believers, because they are believers, and united to Christ, as his body and Spouse, but. 2. This Author saith amiss, That the Church instituted by Christ is a company of believers, and faithful and godly men, whereof Peter was one; for a company of hypocrites are not such. 2. Our brethren prove the keys, to be a part of the liberty of the redeemed ones, but counterfeit professors are not redeemed ones, nor have they that liberty purchased to them in Christ. 4 It shall follow, that our brethren widely mistake a supposed difference which they devise, betwixt the jewish and Christian Church, to wit, that to make men members of the jewish Church, external holiness, as to be borne Jews, was sufficient, and to be circumcised, and not a bastard, not descended within three or four Generations of a Moabite, or Ammonite, but that the visible Church of the Gentiles after Christ must be the bride of Christ, and by true Faith united to him. Whereas the members of a Christian visible Church are and may be hypocrites, though not known to be such, as were the members of the jewish Church. Also Mat. 18 18, 19 Christ changeth the persons, v. 17. after he hath spoken of the Church v. 17. he showeth v. 18. of what Church he speaketh, and directeth his speech to these to whom he spoke v. 1. to the Disciples who were Pastors, verily I say unto you, What soever ye shall bind on Earth, shall be hon in Heaven, and therefore none can make an argument from, Mat. 16. to wit thus, to as many are the keys promised, as are builded on the Rock, but all the faithful are builded on the Rock, Ergo to all the faithful are the keys promised. 1. The proposition is not in the Text either expressly, or by consequent. 2. The proposition is false, for the Catholic invisible Church is builded on the rock, but by our brethren's confession the keys are not given to the Catholic invisible Church, but only to such a company of professing believers, as make a Parishional Congregation. 4. That Christ speaketh to Peter as to one representing the Apostles, and not as to one representing all believers, is clear. 1. Because by the confession of our Brethren binding and losing are denied to many that make Peter's confession, thou art Jesus the Son of the living God, as to believing Women and children; and many out of Church. state. 2. If believers as giving Peter's confession, and as builded upon the rock, Christ, by this place made a ministerial Church, by Christ, and gifted with the power of the keys, than the Ministry & official power of preaching and binding and losing should be made as stable and firm from defection, as the Church of elect believers, against whom the gates of hell cannot prevail: now besides that this is most untrue since, visible Churches do fall away, as these seven Churches in Asia, the Church of Corinth, Ephesus, Galatia, Thessalonica may prove, when as it is impossible that the elect Believers in Christ can fall away, it shall also give good warrant to Papists, to make such use of this place, as they do, that the Church may err in points of conversation and life, but cannot fall from the rock, nor be overcome by the powers of Hell in the definition of Articles of Faith. So a Gretser de in Augnr Doctor Luther. p. ●9. Gretser b Bel●. de cöcli. vut. l. 2, ca 2. Bellarmine c Suarez de trip. virt●dis. 9 de Eccl. Sec. 7. n. 7. Suarez. d Greg de Valent tom. 3. dis. 1. q. 1. punct. 7. Gregor. de Valent. e Hosius in confess. Polmiea. Cardi. Hosius f Joan. de Turre cremat. de Gal. l. 1. ca 24, 25, 26. Turrecremata, reason from this place; and the connexion must be good, if the Ministerial power not only be given to the Church as to the Object, that is, for the good and salvation of the Church, but also to the Church as to the Subject, who hath all the power of the Keys, and may use it also, because they are believers and builded upon the rock Christ; nothing hindereth, but Ministerial power should be as stable and free from being overcome with the ports of Hell, as the Christian state of perseverance in grace. Now we see, these who have Ministerial power, abuse it, and fall from the rock and perish eternally; which we cannot say of these, who by Faith are builded upon the Rock Christ jesus. 3. These to whom Christ giveth the Keys, do represent the person of Christ, and who despiseth them despiseth Christ, and he that honoureth them, honoureth Christ, which is evidently spoken of the Ministers of Christ, Matthew 10. 40. And is said here Matthew, 16. 19 Whatsoever than ye shall bind on Earth, shall be bound in Heaven, etc. Thus Christ bindeth and looseth in Heaven, when these to whom the Keys are given, bind and lose; and so they are to be looked unto as co-workers with God. Now Scripture never maketh all believers Ambassadors in Christ's room. Where do we read that the despising of all believers commanding in Christ's Name, is a despising of Christ, and that in obeying them, we obey Christ? Nor are all Ambassadors, pastors, etc. 5. These to whom the Keys are given do authoritatively forgive and retain sins, and their acts of forgiveing and retaining are valid in Heaven, according as the party repenteth and believeth, or according as they remain impenitent, as our Divines teach against the Papists, in their Doctrine of Sacramental absolution. But the Church, or company of believers wanting their Officers, by no Scripture can authoritatively forgive, and retain si●s. Robinson, Smith and others answer, that believers out of Office may forgive, as Mat. 18. 21. Peter said, How oft shall my brother offend me, and I forgive him? Lu. 17. 3. 4. 2 Cor. 2. 10. But I answer, the place, 2 Cor. 2. 10. is controverted, and we doubt not, but of that same nature, with the power of Excommunicating. 1 Cor. 5. 4. But for private forgiving, it is not the Church-forgiving here meant, because 1. The private forgiving is a duty of charity commanded in the Law of Nature to all, even out of Church-state, and obligeth the Excommunicate, who, though they be cast out of the Church, are not exempted from the Law, that bindeth all, Mat. 6. 12. 14, 15. Mat. 5. 44. 45. but the Church-forgiving is an Act of obedience to a positive Church-Law of Christ, 2. private Christians are to forgive their Enemies whether they repent, or not, even as Christ forgave those who crucified him, Col 3. 13. Luk. 23. 34. and when the party repenteth not, this forgiveness is not ratified in Heaven, yet are we obliged to forgive, and to commit vengeance to God; but the authoritative forgiveing is a thing that the Church, is not obliged unto, absoiutely; nor may they, or can they forgive, except the Offender repent: and if they see that he repenteth not, they cannot lawfully forgive; but, being in God's room, must take vengeance on all disobedience, and their retaining of sin and forgiveing, is valid in Heaven, because they are in God's place. Now any forgiving or retaining of sin but these two, together with God's forgiving and retaining, we know not. But Peter's forgiving his offending brother seventy times seven times, is common to all private Christians, even out of Church-state, and so the instance given is not to the purpose, 6. To these only are the Keys given, who having Paul's pastoral spirit, may convene and deliver to Satan, but the Church of believers without Officers, not having Paul's pastoral spirit which is a spirit official, and authoritative to preach, excommunicate, and administrate the seals of the Covenant, may not convene and do this; Ergo, etc. indeed a Fran. johnson art. 5. in M. Clisions book. p. 29. Francis Johnson saith it is holden now by some of the Separation, that people out of Office may execute all the works and duties of the ministry, in Baptism, the Lords Supper, censures, etc. which I think followeth from the grounds of our brethren, to wit, that believers without Office are a complete Church, having the whole power of the Keys: if administration of the Sacraments be not a special part of the Keys, and the opening of Heaven and forgiving of sins, we know not what belongeth to the power of binding and losing; yea this is not only contrary to Scripture b Mat. 18. 19 1 Cor. 11. 23. 1 Cor. 1. 17. Joh. 4. 12. but also to their c Confess. art. 27. own confession, and d Remonst. conf.. 21. & apol. cons. ib. is the Doctrine of Arminians e Socin. tract. de Eccl c. 1. n. 140. Gatechis. Raccoviens. c. 11. n. 305. and Socinians f Cartwright ans. to the adm●nit. tract. 18. c. 1● div. 5. p 663. Cartwright saith the Sanedrin, Mat. 18. to these who have skill in the Rabbins, especially in the jews Talm●d, was a selected Judicatory, and that to this Christ alludeth Mat. 18. g Beza an. in Mat. 17. learned Beza, saith much from Scripture for this, that the Church here signifieth not the multitude, h Pareus, Apostolis dict manisestum est, quicquid vos Apostoli ligaveritis, ut supra Petro dixerat Christus, Mat. 16. 19 Parcus also is most clear on this place i Calvin come. ib. Calvin hath reason to say, he alludeth to jewish Synedrie, k Joh. Weemes vol. 3. expos. of the judicial Law. c. 16. see also Weems. I● it needless to cite junius, Zanchius, Peter Martyr, Willet, Whittaker, Tilen, Becan, and all our Divines of the reformed Churches; for when he hath spoken of the Church representative, Mat. 18. 16, 17. and speaketh to these, to whom the Sermon was made, v. 1. at the same time came the Disciples to Jesus (they were then Apostles in Office and called to preach and Baptise, though not yet sent to the whole world) saying who is the greatest in the Kingdom of God? Now to these Christ saith, 18. to the Apostles, Verily I say to you, whatsoever you shall bind on Earth; and this place is to be expounded by Mat. 16. 19 Where the Keys are given in a more restricted manner to Peter only, though as representing the whole Apostles and Church-rulers, and we have better reason to expound this place, Mat. 18. by the place foregoing, Mat. 16. then they have to expound the place, Mat. 16. by this place, Mat. 18. because these ●am● Keys that bind and lose in the one place, remit and retain fins, in the other; and we find the keys given to Officers and Stewards only. And here is no Church, Mat. 18. or yet Mat. 16. without Pastors, except they say, that Christ Mat. 18. 18. speaketh not to the Disciples, but to the multitude of the Jews, which is a great crossing of the Text. And to say, that Christ speaketh to the Apostles, not as to Apostles, but as to the Church of believers, is only a bare affertion, and cannot be proved, and all they can say, hangeth upon this one place, and this is the most. The power of binding and losing is given to the Church, which is to be obeyed and heard in the place of God. But this Church, is never in the Word of God (say they) taken for a company of Officers, Pastors, and Elders only; it signifieth always the Body of Christ, his Spouse, his Saints by calling, partakers of the most holy Faith. To which I answer, The body, Spouse of Christ, and Saints by calling, as they are such, is the invisible Church, and the keys and Seals a Way of the Church of n. E. c. 4. sec. 5. saith this Author) are not to be dispensed to all the faithful as such, but as they arè confederate or joined together in some particular visible Church, that is, saith he) as they are members of a visible Church; Ergo, etc. the body and Spouse of Christ, as such, is not the Church here meant of, but the visible Congregation. Now the essence of a visible Church of which Christ speaketh here, is saved in ten, who are only visible professors, and not a Church of sound Believers, not the true body mystical and Spouse of Christ: and yet, by this place, the Keys are given to such a Church; now we desire again, a place, in all God's Word, for a Church in this sense, and a Body of Christ and his Spouse in this meaning: for certainly, professors this way confederate, as professiors, are no more a Church of Christ, redeemed ones, and his Spouse, than an Assembly of Elders only can be called such a Church of Believers; for both Churches are, and may be; where no believers are at all, at least for a time, and even while they exercise this power of Binding and Losing, and so th● place, Matthew 18. is as much against our brethren, as against us. And Lastly our Doctrine is acknowledged, by all our Divines, against the Papists, proving that Mat. 16. the Keys were given to Peter as representing the Apostles, and his successors in the pastoral charge, not as representing all believers. Irenaus' i● qui in Ecclesia sunt, Presbyteris obed● oportet, iis qui successionem habent ab Apostolis: qui cum Episcopatus successione, charisma veritatis certum, secundum beneplacitumpatris, acceperunt. Nazianzen. o● at. 21. de laud. Bas. ejusdem throni particeps est Petrus, cum reliquis Apostolis, in illa verba, dabo tibi Claves Cyprian de unita Ecclesia, Christus eandem dedit omnibus Apostolis potestatem, & hoc erant utique & caeteri Apostoli, quod, Pe●●us suit, pari consortto praediti & honoris & potestatis, he should have said, Hoc erant utique & caeteri credentes in Christum, quod Petrus suit; also Basil de vita solitar. c. 21. Omnibus pastoribus & Doctoribus candem potestatem tribuit, cu●us signum est, quod omnes, exaequo & ligant & solvunt. He should have said, Omnibus credentibus in Christum eandem potestatem tribuit. Ambros. in Ps. 38. & in Luc. 10. Ser. 66. Quod hic dictum est, Apostolis omnibus dictum; non ait, omnibus credentibus dictum. The p●ilact. in Mat. 6. Quamvis soli Petro dictum, tamen omnibus Apostolis concessae sunt (Claves.) Cyrill● in Joh. 4. l. 4. Responsionem illi Christus committebat, qui ordine primus, omnibus Apostolis: non ait, omnibus credentibus. Euthymius in Mat. ca tibi dabo claves, atqui donum hoc ceterorum fuit Apostolorum. Hugo de sanct. victor Tom. 2. institut sanct. monaster. Quamvis potestas solvendi & ligandi soli Petro data videatur, tamen caeteris Apostolis data est, Haymo. Homil in festo Petri & Pauli. Quod Petro dixit, in Petro, caeteris Apostolis dixit. Cardin Cusan. concord. Cathol. 2. c. 13. Nih l dictum a●●ctrum, quod alits Apostolis n●n di●tum. Glossa ordinaria, Pet●us tanquam principa is inter alios (Apostolos) non inter alios creientes, pro aliis dat respensionem. Cyrill in Es. 4. orat 2. sancti Apostoli & Evangelist●e fundamenta. Hyeron li. 1 cont. jovian, Omnes Apostoli acceperunt claves, non solus Petrus. Anselm in Mat. 16. Habent eandem judiciariam potestatem al●i Apostoli. Anastasius in quest. sac. script q. 79. in 6. Tom Biblioth. Potestatem clavium non soli Petro, sed aliis etiam Apostolis, & toti Ecclesie in Episcopis & Presbyteris datam. August. tract. in Joh 50. & lib. de ag●d. Christi c. 30. Beda, homil. in Mat. 16. Chry●ostom Homil. 70. add popul. Hilarius ae trinit l. 6. Euscbius' histor. Eccl. lib 2. c. 14. Leo Serm. 10. the assumpt. & citat Bellar. de Pont. lib. 1. c. 14. Petro hoc singulariter creditur, quia cunct is rectoribus Petri formâ proponitur, Lyra in Mat. 16. durand 4 dis: 18. q 2. Pro omnibus Apostolis dictum. Thom. 4. d. 24. q. 3. Scot 4. d. 24. q. 3. Adrian 6. in. 4. d. q. 2. Synod Coloniens. sub. Adulph c. 1. med. 6. Hugo Cardinal. in Matthew 16. concilum aqu●sgranens. cap. 9 Also the Fathers Irenaeus, Nazianz●nus, Cyprianus, Basilius, Ambrose, Theophilactus, Cyrillus, Euthymius, Hyeronimus, Augustine, Beda, Chrysostomus. And ordinaria glossa, Hugo de sanct. Victor. Haymo. Cardinalis Cusanus. Anastasius, Leo, Durandus, Thomas, Adrianus, Scotus, making a comparison between Peter and the rest of the Apostles, say, the keys were given to all the Apostles, when they were given to Peter: and Peter received them in the name and person of the rest of the Apostles, whereby, they declare, it was never their mind that Peter received the keys in name of all believers. Also the learned, as a Augustine de trinit. lib. 2. cap. 6 & in Psalm. 60. Augustine b Beda in Joh. 21. Beda c Gregor. li. 3. c. 33. Gregorius, expound the Church builded upon the rock to be the Catholic Church, and not a particular visible Church. And d Gerard. loc. com●tom. 5. de Eccl. c. 6. n. 50. Gerardus giveth a good reason, why this Church, Mat. 16. cannot be a particular visible Church, because the gates of hell prevaileth against many joined to the visible Church in external society, e Wiclefus tract. cont. monach. c. 39 and Wicklif writing against the Monks resureth that error of the Papists, that any members of the true Church can be damned; and f Whittaker cont. 4. q. 2. c. 3. Whittaker saith, Augustin g August. cont. Petilian. l. 2. c. ult. against Petilian saith, the Church builded on the rock is the Church of the Elect, not the visible Church. CHAP. 2. SECT. 2. PROP. THis Church (saith the Author) doth meet together every Lord's Day, all of them, even the whole Church, for administration of the Ordinances of God, to public edification. Ans. Two things are here said, 1. That all, even the whole Church, must meet for administration of the Ordinances of God, that so all and every one of the Church may be actors and Judges in dispensing of censures, this we take to be popular government. 2. That there is a necessity of personal presence of all and every one of the Church▪ Hence Quest. 3. Whether or no the multitude of Believers, and the whole people are to be judges, so, as private Christians out of Office are to exercise judicial acts of the keys? For the more easy clearing of the Question, let it be observed. 1. Dist. There is a dominion of Government Lordly and Kingly, and this is in Christ only in relation to his Church and in civil judges, and is no ways in Church- guides, who are not Lords over the Lord's inheritance; there is a government Ministerial, of service, under Christ, and this is due to church-guide. 2. Dist. Regal power, being a civil power founded in the Law of nature (for the Ants have a King) may well be in the people originally and subjectively, as in the fountain, nature teaching every community to govern themselves, and to hold off injuries, if not by themselves, yet by a King, or some selected Rulers; but power of Church-government being supernatural, and the acts of Church-government, and of the casting such as offend out of Christ's Kingdom, being supernatural, neither of them can be originally in the multitude of professing believers, but must be communicated by Christ to some certain professing believers, and these are Officers. Therefore to put power and acts of government in all professors, is a natural way drawn from civil incorporations. Christ is not ruled by our Laws. 3. Dist. The government of Christ's Kingdom is the most free and willing government on earth; yet it is a government properly so called, for there be in it authoritative commandments, and Ecclefiasticke coaction, upon the danger of soul penalties; in regard of the former, all the people by consent and voluntary agreement have hand in election of Officers, inflicting of censures, because it concerneth them all: but in regard of the latter, the whole people are not over the whole people; they are not all Kings reigning in Christ's government over Kings, but are divided into governor's and governed; and therefore the rulers Ecclesiastic only, by power of office, are in Christ's room, over the Church, to command, sentence, judge, and judicially to censure. 4. Distinct. The Official power of governing superaddeth to the simple acts of popular consenting, the official authoritative and coactive power of Christ's Sceptre in discipline. That distinction in the sense holden by our brethren a Presbytetiall government examined, p. 23. that the state of the Church is popular, and the government Aristocratical in the hands of the Eldership, is no ways to he holden; nor do the Parisian b Doct. parisians. de polit. Eccles. pag. 10, 11. Doctors, the authors of this distinction, mind any Church-government to be in the people. Our brethren in the answer to the questions sent to them from England, explain their mind thus: 1. We acknowledge a Presbytery, whose work it is to teach and rule, and whom the people ought Quest 15. to obey, and we condemn a mere popular government, such as our writers condemn in Morellius. They add▪ Government merely Aristocratical, where all authority is in the hands of the Eldership, excluding the people from intermeddling by way of power, we conceive to be without warrant and injurious to the people, infringing their liberties in choosing Officers, admitting members, censuring offenders, even Ministers, Col. 4. 16. To which doctrine we oppose these conclusions: 1. Concl. Our brethren hold a mere popular government, with Morellius. 1. Because nothing is left peculiar in government to the Officers which all the people have not. 2. Because a greater power of Church-Jurisdiction, as I shall prove, is given to the people then to the guides; for, cursing by Excommunication of all the Officers, and blessing of them by pardoning their faults, and admitting of Members and laying on of hands, is the greatest power that can be given to people. But this and many other acts of jurisdiction the people have by our brethren's Doctrine. 3. The people is no more obedient to the Eldership, in teaching, than Indians and Infidels, who are hearers of the word, and are under an obligation to obey the word; and under the very same obligation of an Evangelic offer made to all: The people (say they) are under the obligation of obedience to Pastoral teaching, under the pain of Church censures, but so are not Indians, who may be only hearers, but are in no Church-membership. I answer, Obligation to Church censures from the Pastors, as Pastors, lieth not on the people, by our brethren's doctrine. 1. Because Pastors, as Pastors, are not the Church builded on the rock, nor the Spouse of Christ, nor any part thereof; nor any part of the visible Church, to the which Christ hath given the Keys: for the visible Church is a complete Church in esse, & in operari, in their being and Church actions of a visible Church without all Pastors of any Officers, as they teach. 2. Because Pastors are only parts of the visible Church, as believers, and so have the power of the Keys as believers; and this the believers have, which the Pastors have not; and so seeing the Pastors as Pastors have not the Keys, nor can they use the Keys, or excommunicate as parts or members of the visible Church; because, as Pastors, they are neither parts nor members of the Church, but adjuncts, and mere accidents of the visible Church, and therefore the people are under no obligation of obedience to Pastors, as Pastors under pain of Ecclesiastic censures, more than Indians or Infidels, who are their hearers. 2. Concl. Christ hath given no warrant at all of actual Church government, to all the whole visible Church. 1. so the places that I cited before a Paul's Presbytery, c. 6. 63. 64. jadde the styles of Official dignity given to Officers, because of their government, are given only to Officers, and never to the people; Ergo, the people have no power of government; the consequence is sure, those who are privileged of Christ to govern, ordinarily should be, and duly are Governors. But the stile of Gods is given to church-guide, joh. 10. 33, 36. joh. 20. 21. which title for governing is given to Judges, Psalm. 82. 6. Exod. 21. 6. And his Master shall bring him 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to the Judges. Now the people are not Gods, nor are they 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, Heb. 13. 17. over the people in the Lord. Which word, no doubt, the Apostle borrowed from the Septuagint, so styling the Rulers, not because of their place of preaching only, but of governing also, as Jos. 13. 21. Micah 3. 9 Ezech. 44. 3. Dan. 3. 2. Acts 23. 24. Matth. 27. 2. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and it is given to the Kings or supreme rulers, 1 Pet. 2. 14. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, so it is frivolous, that they say Church-Officers are never called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉: For these words of official power of government are no less powerful, and never communicated to any but to Church-Officers, such as are 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, watchmen, not only for preaching, but also for government, Phil. 1. 1. 1 Tim. 3. 2. Acts 20. 28. and the people are not 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, Governors, 1 Cor. 12. 28. nor are they 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, Rom. 12. 8. nor obliged to be 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, Rulers, as they are the visible Church, nor should they be 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, 1 Tim. 5. 17. nor are they to be 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, Labourers, and over the Saints in the Lord. 1 Thess. 5. 12. 2. If all the people as contradistinguished from Officers, are to watch over one another, and by office to rebuke, censure, excommunicate, ordain, and exauthorate Officers, then must they in Conscience attend the judging of all causes, of adultery, fornication, drunkenness, swearing, oppressing, defrauding one another, as they fall under scandal. Now this is a calling distinct from their own calling, in respect the holy Ghost alloweth to the Elders stipend and maintenance, 1 Tim. 5. 17. yea, and hire as to labourers, Matth. 10. 10. as to soldiers, husbandmen, dress●rs of vineyards, feeders of flocks, 1 Cor. 9 7, 8. yea, as to the ox that treadeth out, or thresheth the corn, verse. 9 and by this all the people are made officers and stipendiaries, to whom by the Law of God and nature stipend is due: Now this looscth them from their own proper callings of Merchandise, Trading, Husbandry, Laws, Medicine, Manufactures, and maketh all these callings sinful & unlawful to the Saints by calling, who are members of a visible Church, according to that 2 Tim. 2. 4. No man that warreth, in't angleth himself with the affairs (or callings) of this life, which is gross Anabaptism condemned by God's Word, 1 Cor. 7. 20, 21. Eph. 6. 5. Col. 2. 22. 1 Thess. 4. 11. Now certainly, if actual government, with the power of the Keys, be committed to all the members of the visible Church, the Epistles to Timothy and Titus, and Canons of right government must be written to Timothy and Titus, not as to Pastors, but as to believers, as the Keys were given in Peter's person, and a warrant to bind and lose, Matth 18. Matth. 16. as representing believers, not as to a Pastor: then they are to commit the word to faithful men, who are able to teach others, and to give up their earthly callings, as 2 Tim. 2. 2 3, 4. and to lay hands suddenly on no man, and not to receive a testimony against an Elder, but before two or three witnesses, 1 Tim. 5. 22, 19 and to war a good warfare, 1 Tim. 1. 18. And this must needs follow, since Separatists teach, That all the people are obliged in Conscience to judge, and to be personally present, and that by their Office and Church-calling, when ever any sentence is given out against offenders; for, if the Elders be only present and the people absent, the Elders shall tyrannize * Answ. in his Animadvers. pag. 42, 43. (saith Answorth) over the people's Consciences; for the people being absent shall not know if the Eldership have proceeded right, yet must they repute the excommunicated person as an heathen or a publican. 3. Arg. That government is not to be admitted which maketh men take honour to themselves, without God calling them thereunto. But the Doctrine of government in the hands of people is such, ergo; the assumption is proved: 1. By it, all are Kings, Rulers, and Guides, and all have the most supreme power of the Keys, as authoritative receiving in of members, and judicial casting out, by the pastoral spirit of Paul, and all govern over all. 2. Believers are a ministerial Church, a company of private Christians put in office, and doing acts of a Ministeries now a Ministry is a peculiar state of eminency that God calls some selected & gifted persons unto that to the which he calls not all professors, as in Israel he choosed, one Tr be a H●b. 8. 2. Ez●k. 7. 24. Ezr. 8. 17. Jer. 33. 21. Ezek. 44. 11. Jod. 1. 9 Ez●k. 45. 5. Ex. 28. 1. 3. 35. Ex. 29 1. Ex. 14. 15. Levit. 16. 32 Num. 1. 50. Deur. 10. 5. Deut 18. 6. 7. 1 Chron. 16. 37. 2 Chron. 5. 14. 2 Chron. 13. 10. to minister to himself, not all the visible Church of Israel, as the Scripture teacheth us. Ministers of the house of God, the Levites, the Lords Ministers, Ministers of God's Sanctuary, and the ministry of the b Eph. 3. 7. Col. 1. 25. Col. 4. 7. 1 Thest. 3. 2. 1 Tim. 4. 6. Acts 26. 16. New Testament, is a special eminency of office given to some few, and not to all believers, c Eph. 4. 12. Colos. 4. 17. 1 Tim. 1. 12. Act. 1. 17. 25. a matter of work that some, not all believers are put upon, and employed in, d 1 Cor. 4. 1. 2. 2 Cor. 4. 1. 2 3. 2 Cor. 5. 18, 19, 20. 2 Cor. 3. 3, 4, 5. Gal. 6. 6. the act, of the Ministry not common to all, but restricted to the Ministers of the Church, and not common to the whole visible Church. Now to ordain Elders, excommunicate, admit members into the Church, are positive acts of a received ministry, and must flow from an other principle, then that which is common to all professing believers. 4. Arg. All who have received such a Ministerial state to discharge such excellent and noble acts, as laying on of hands, receiving of witnesses, committing the Gospel to faithful men, who are able to teach others, and must save some by gentle awaiting, and stop the mouths of other Pastors, as a 1 Tim. 5. 22. 19 2 Tim. 2. 2. 2 Tim. 3. 15. Tit. 1. 11. the Scripture saith, these must acquit themselves as approved workmen to God, and shall therefore receive a Crown of Glory at the appearance of the chief Shepherd, and must in a special manner fight the good fight of Faith, and must be workmen who need not to be ashamed. But these are not required of all the Church visible; all are not men of God, and ministerial Soldiers of Christ, and feeders of the flock, but only such as Timothy, Titus, and Elders like to Peter, as these b 2 Tim. 2. 15 1 Pet. 5. 1, 2. 5. 1 Tim. 6. 12 1 Tim. 6. 11. 1 Tim. 6. 13, 14. Scriptures prove. For the reward of a prophet is not due to all. 5. Arg. That Government is not of God which taketh away the ordinary degrees of members in Christ's body the Church. But government exercised by all the visible body taketh away the deversity of offices, members, places, of Rulers and ruled, Ergo; I prove the assumption. 1. All have one and alike equal power of governing, all the members are one in place, and office, all are Eyes, all Ears, all are hands, according as all have one joint and common interest, and claim to Christ. One is not an Eye and head in relation to another: for all are both governor's and governed, all the Watchmen, and all the City; all the flock, and all the feeders, all the House, and all Rulers, Key-bearers, Stewards, all the children of the house, all the Fathers, Tutors, to bring up, nurture, and correct the children. 2. If the power and use of the Keys result from this, that the Corporation is the Spouse, Body, Sister of Christ, the redeemed flock, what should hinder but according as God inequally dispenseth the measure of grace, to some more, to some l●sse, so some should have more, some less power of the keys, and some exercise more eminent acts of government, as they be more eminent in grace; some less eminent acts; and if we grant this, we cannot deny the order of a Hierarchy amongst Pastors. This connexion may be denied happily by our brethren, but there is no reason, if their arguments be good, they always conclude Church-power from the graces of the members of the Church. 3. Concl. It is clear then that the state of the Church cannot be called popular, and the government Aristocratical, or in the hands of the Elders, as our brethren mean. 1. Because by our brethren, the government and the most eminent and authoritative acts thereof are in the hands of the people. Ergo, both state and government are popular. 2. Because the people are not only to consent to the censures, and acts of government, but also authoritatively to judge with coequal power with the Eldership, as they prove from, 1 Cor. 5. 12. 3. a Pag. 10. The Parisian Doctors, the authors of this distinction acknowledge a visible monarchy in the Church, and are far from popular government. Let us hear what our brethren say for the government of the people, and their judicial power in general. Quest. 15. Our brethren say, the Colossians are exhorted, Col. 4. 17. to say to Archippus, Take heed to the Ministry, that thou hast received of the Lord, to fulfil it in all points; Ergo, the people are to censure and rebuke the Pastors, and therefore they may, and aught to exercise acts authoritative. Ans. 1. This is an argument off the way with reverence. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 say to Archippus, take heed, Ergo, say Judicially and rebuke with all authority, it is an argument à genere ad speciem affirmatiuè, and a non-consequence, Mat. 18. 17. If he will not hear them, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 tell the Church; Ergo, exercise an act of authority over the Church, joh. 8. 48. The Jews said unto him. Ergo, they said it authoritatively, 1 joh. 1. 8. If we say, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, we have no sin; by no authority can we say we have no sin, Luk. 12. 11. Take not thought 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 what ye shall say Rev. 22. 17. 2. The Fathers, as a August. de civ. Det. l. 1. c. 9 Augustine, b Chrysost. Homil. in Exod. 23. chrysostom, c Ambros. in Luc. 17. Ambrose, d Hiieronimus in Luc. 18. Hyeronimus; The Schoolmen, as e Aquinas, 22. q. 23. art. 2. Aquinas, f Bannes, in 1 33. art. 2. D. Bannes, g Suarez, tom. de fid. spe & charit. d●s. 8. the con. Suarez, say, correcting of our brother is, (sublevatio miseriae peccantis.) a succouring of the misery of a sinner. h Cajetan. in 22. q. 33. ar. 1. Cajetan●ait, actum correctionis elici à prudentia, imperari à misericordia: To warn or rebuke our brother is an act of prudence commanded by mercy and compassion. i And. Duvallius in 22. tom. poster. tract. de charit. q. 9 art. 2. And. Duvalius saith, it is an act, Non solum juris divini, sed etiam naturalis; and he citeth Leu. 19 Thou shalt not hate thy brother in thy heart, but shalt rebuke him; and shall bear one another's burdens, and so fulfil the Law of Christ. And k Gregor. de valent. tom. 3. dis. 3. de correc. fra. quest. 10. punct. 2. Greg. de Valent. saith it is a spiritual alms, & actum misericordiae, quo subveniatur spirituali necessitati fratris. So the Doctors l Doct. juris Canonici in decret. 2. q. 1. cause. peccaverit haec. of the Canon Law. So the Fathers say, m Basil in Ps. 14. as Basilius, esse benevolentiam potius, quam severitatem. n August. de verbo domin. serm. 16. Augustin. Vulnus fratr is contemnis, vides cum perire & negligis, pejor es tu tacendo, quam ille te offendendo. o Hieronim. in Ps. 140. in illud corripiet me j●stus. Excellently Hieronim. Sivide at in corpore carnes putridas, & dicat. An add me pertinet? scias, quiae crudelis est. And p Nazianzen in or at. de moderatione, in disputat. Nazianz. Charitatem potius hic quam potestatem ostendendam. To rebuke is a work of charity, rather than of power. q Calvin in Epist. ad col. c. 4. Calvin saith, Good Ministers stand in need to be admonished. r Davenantius come. ib. Davenant thinketh that Archippus in the absence of Epaphras his colleague was to supply his absence, and, it is like, was somewhat cold, and therefore needed to be admonished. But because the Collossians were to exercise an act of mercy towards their Pastor, which the Law of nature enjoined them, it is a wide inference, therefore they had Church authority and power over him, to censure, deprive excommunicate him; so the faithful receiveth a charge, Host 2. 1. Say ye to your brethren Ammi, and to your sisters Ruhammah. 2. Plead with your mother, plead; pleading for wheredomes is more than a simple exhorting of Archippus, yet none can well collect from these words, that those faithful who kept themselves clean from the common defection, had power of jurisdiction over their breath en, sisters, and mother, to censure them judicially, and by authority to un-Church them. And certainly the Apostle, if he had commanded here the judicial act of Church-jurisaiction to all the Saints of Colosle, men and women who may admonish Archippus, we we would look he had said, (command, and charge with all authority Archippus to take heed to his ministry.) Also, it is much to be doubted, if the duties of rebuking, exhorting, and comforting one another, be positive acts of Church-membership, which the fellow-members of a visible Congregation owe one to another by virtue of a Church-covenant, or that the people owe to the Pastor in a Church way, for these (ex hort, teach, comfort one another) are duties mutual, not restricted to fellow-members of a visible Church, or Parish, but such as we owe to all the members of the Catholic Church, as we are occasionally in company with them. Yea, and duties (as our brethren say) that sister Churches owe to sister Churches, and acts of the Law of nature that we owe to all, as brethren, not as brethren in Church-membership, Levit. 19 17. only. I will here answer: What Robinson saith, a Robinson justif. separation p 124, 125. 126 167. By the Keys is meant the Gospel opening a way by Christ and his merits, as the door into the Kingdom, the power of binding and losing, opening and shutting Heaven, is not tied to any Office or Order in the Church, it dependeth only upon Christ, who alone properly forgiveth sins, and hath the Key of David, and this Key externally is the Gospel, which, with himself, he giveth to the Church, Isa. 6. 9 Rom. 3. 2. Ergo, the Keys are given to all, though not to be used by all and every one alike, which were gross confusior. The Keys were not given to Peter as Prince of the Apostles, as Papists say, nor to Peter as chief Officer of the Church, and so to Prelates; nor to Peter as a Minister of the Word and Sacraments; but we say, to the confession of faith, which Peter made by way of answer to Christ's demand, and therefore to every faithful man and woman, who have received the like precious faith with Peter, 2 Pet. 1. 1. Ans. 1. If the Keys be given to as many as the Gospel is given unto, all have the Keys who are believers, children, women, whether within or without the Church; for all have obtained alike precious faith. So it is vain to speak there of a Church builded on the Rock●, or of any ministerial Church. 2. The Keys are not given to the naked Office or Order, distinct from the spirits working and proving the acts of preaching and discipline to be mighty through God, 2 Cor. 10 5. to open hearts, Act. 16. 14. for what, or who is Paul? and who is Apollo, but Ministers by whom ye believed? 1 Cor. 3. 4 5. and Christ alone worketh with the Sacraments, and without him great john Baptist can but baptise with water. Joh. 1. 26. yet all say administration of Sacraments externally is so tied to the Office, as none can administer them without warrant, but Pastors, 1 John 5. 25 Math. 26 19 1 Cor. 1. 17. and therefore this is weak, to prove that because Christ only hath the Keys of the Word; yea, and of the Sacraments also. that therefore he hath not committed the Keys to certain Officers under him, who are Stewards, and Key-bearers. 3. The places alleged prove not Is. 6. 9 Christ is given to us, that is, to the Church, as to the subject; O say it not, but to us the Church, as the object and end for our salvation. Ergo, the Keys and the Gospel are given to the Church, yea and to every faithful, that they may, by preaching, open and shut Heaven. You cannot say so. Also Rom. 3. 2. to the Jews were committed the Oracles and Scriptures, that every one might be a Priest and Prophet, to teach and sacrifice; it is a shame to say so: but to the Jews, as to the object and end, that by the Scriptures and faith in these Oracles, they might be saved. 4. The Keys, that is, the Gospel, is given to all, though not to be used alike by all and every one; which were gross confusion: that is the same we say, the Gospel in use is not given alike to all; but to the believers as to the object and end; to the Officers, as to the subject and proper instrument. And so you fall into gross confusion while you eschew it. Robinson, a Robinson justif. p. 127. The Keys be one and the same in efficacy and nature, and depend not upon the number and excellency of any persons, but upon Christ alone, though the order and manner of using them be different. Ans. The Sacraments remain one and the same in nature and efficacy, who ever be the persons, many or few, excellent or not excellent, in whose hands soever they be; it followeth not therefore, the power of administration of Sacraments is given to all. 2. We see no difference in the order and manner of using the keys; if all, even a faithful man or woman either, may also truly and effectually lose and bind both in heaven and in earth, as all the Ministers of the world, for those be b Rob. lb. pag. 127. your words. Robinson. c lb. These keys in doctrine may be turned also as well upon them, which are without the Church, as upon them which are within, and their sins either loosed or bound, Matth. 28 19 in discipline not so, but only on them that are within. 1 Cor. 5 13. Answ. If this distinction were in God's Word, we would receive it, but seeing by preaching there is receiving in and casting out, and binding and losing. I ask, how these, who were never within, can be judged and cast out by preaching more than by discipline; may Pastors judge these who are without by preaching, and not judge those who are without by discipline, and that in a settled Church? Robinson. a Rob. Ib. 127, 128. There is an use of the keys public, ministerial, by men in office, by the whole Church jointly together, or private, by one person severally who is out of office, and yet the power of the Gospel is still one and the same, notwithstanding the divers manner of using it. Answ. 1. If one alone have the keys spoken of, Matth. 16. there be keys Ministerial made by Christ before the house be builded, and have walls, roof, or door, the keys all take to be metaphorical, and to presuppose a company, a constituted Church, where some are put in, some put out; these private keys of women to open and shut heaven upon men, and so to usurp authority over the man, are no Church-keyes, and if they be not Church-keyes they are not for our dispute. Robinson b Ib. 128. If the keys of the Kingdom of Heaven be appropriated to the officers, then can there be no forgiveness of sins without the officers, and there is no entrance into heaven but by the door, there is no climbing over any other way, and without the key the door cannot be opened: Then if there be no officers in the Church, or if they take away the key of knowledge c Mat. 23. 13. than must the multitude perish eternally. Answ. Though the keys be appropriated to officers, it followeth not, There is no forgiveness of sins, nor opening of Heaven at all without officers; but only no Ecclesiastical forgiveness, no Church-opening by a Ministerial power, but through Ministerial keys; and opening cannot ordinarily be without officers. Faith cometh by hearing, Ergo, no faith by reading. Baptism saveth, Ergo, no salvation without Baptism, so do Anabaptists reason, as saith d Gerard. loc. come. tom. 6. the minist. Eccles. n. 64. pag. 71. Gerardus; so reasoneth a Socinus tract de Eccles. pag. 14. Socinus, averring, It is a work of charity necessary to salvation, therefore all may preach; and the same doth both the Raccovian● b Catechis. ● Raccov. 2. pag. 1 44. Catechism and c Ostorod. in insist. German. cap. 42. p. 437. Ostorodius say, yea, and Theoph. Nicolaides d Theoph. Nicolaides defence. Soc. de Eccles. cap. 1. pag. 146. defending Muncerus the Anabaptist. Though keys be a public ordinary mean in a constituted Church, it followeth not therefore, there is no other way of opening Heaven. In the Sacraments remission of sins is sealed, and heaven opened, it follows not therefore, all may administer the Sacraments. 2. What inference is here? if the keys be appropriated to officers, than people must perish when officers fail; certainly so saith the Lord's Spirit: Proved. e Prov. 29. 18. Where there is no vision, the people perish; and this is a fearful soul judgement, when God removeth the f Rev. 2. 5. candlestick▪ g Psal 74. 9 and there is no prophet to show how long; h Amos 8. 11, 12. and the people are plagued with a famine of the word of God; yet there be other means then public ministry. He addeth: i Rob. justif. of separation, pag. 128, 129. They which may forgive sin and sinners, save souls, gain and turn men to the Lord, to them are the keys of the Kingdom of Heaven given, by which they open the door to such as they thus forgive, gain, and save. But all th●se, such as are no Ministers may do, as Matth. 18. 15. 2 Corinth. 2. 5, 7, 8, 9, 10. Acts 8. 14. Answ. The proposition is false, for all who open the door by exhorting and gaining souls, as Christians in no Church-state may in some cases do, have not the Church-keyes; for this were to make Church keys without any Church, and to make keys without house, door, or lock: for the keys are metaphorically so called, with necessary relation to the Church, the house of God, and to the stewards of the house; the places alleged are the controversy itself, and to others of them I shall answer hereafter. Robinson. k Rob. 129. The twelve Apostles were not called to the office of Apostles, Matth. 16. Ergo, they do not as Apostles receive the keys. Answ. I trust to prove the contrary hereafter. 2. If the Apostles, Matth. 16. received not the keys, by no warrant are the keys given to Pastors at all. Robinson. l Robin's. 129, 130. Every servant in the house, no less than Officers have authority; for the word carrieth authority with it whither soever it goeth, Matth. 25. 14. and all have received some good thing or gift for the good of the Church, and all should watch, but especially the porter. Answ. What can be hence collected? Ergo, the keys are given to all, and all are porters, and all should watch as porters; for, the word of exhorting given to all, is of like authority when a woman or boy speaketh it, as when a Prophet speaketh it. But it is not good to help Arminius and Jesuits, who reason for universal grace given to all and every one from these Parables: Mr. Pemble, and opposers of Jesuits, in the doctrine of grace, expound this of Pastors. 2. But let the Parable speak of all; all have authority, because all have the word, all who privately exhort have the word, have authority objective, and of divine obligation, as Christians, it is true; Ergo, all have the keys, it followeth not: but all who privately and occasionally exhort, have not authority official by the calling of God and his Church, and therefore they have not this, they have not the keys; and the word by public preaching none have, but usurpers, (save only called Officers) and because they steal the Word, they steal the Keys also; and because the Sacraments have authority from God, it followeth not therefore that Baptism administrated by women is of authority. Robinson m Rob. 129, 130. acknowledgeth, that Elders and Bishops were ordained to suppress false doctrine, and lay hands suddenly on no man; but it followeth not (saith he) that they are to do this there alone. Answ. There alone they must lay on hands, that is, with the Presbytery, and in a judicial way excluding all the people; for people never in the new Testament laid on hands upon any, to ordain them Elders, nor did they it in the old Testament. Robinson. n Rob. 133, 134. The officers, Ephes 4. 11. are chosen of Christ to watch; so Mark 13. the porter should watch; Ergo, the rest of the servants should not watch, it followeth not, Officers are to knit together the Saints, and so are all who are spiritual, Gal. 6. 1. The Officers are to edify, so are all to edify one another, 1 Thess. 5. 11. Answ. The argument must be thus, These who are to watch, to knit together the Saints, to edify them, have received the keys, and are Governors, and are Officers; but all the faithful are to watch, to knit together the Saints, Ergo; first, the major is false; for if because the Saints may edify, they shall have joint power and use of the keys with the Officers, they may administrate the Sacraments. Now, because they may in a Christian way do some acts of edifying, it followeth not that therefore they may do these acts by power of the keys, and with an Ecclesiastical and Church-power; they may do the same duty, Ergo, with the same power. A scholar may teach his school-fellow the same lesson that his Master doth teach him; Ergo, he may do it by the same Magisteriall authority: A wife may cure a disease, Ergo, she may by the same authority that a Doctor of Physic, approved by the incorporation of Physicians, cure a disease, it followeth not: Believe me, so still doth a Socin. tract. de Eccl. pag. 13. Socinus, and b Ostorodius in instit. cap. 42. pag. 437. Ostorodius, c The. Nicol. tract. Soc. de Eccl. c. 2. p. 118. Theoph. Nicolaides, reason against God's ordinance of a sent Ministry. d Rob. 137, 138. 139. Robin's. God hath indeed set in the body some to be eyes and mouth, and hath not said to all the Church, Go and preach; but, first, they have not their gifts from the Church. Secondly, you would have the body to starve, if such hands as Deacons will not feed; and all the body blind, if the eyes of the watchmen be blind. Answ. Yet thus much is granted, that gifts give not the keys, nor authority to use gifts; and so that all believers, though gifted and graced also, have not power of the keys. 2. It's certain, that in a constituted Church there be no hands nor mouths to do and speak by authority, and ex officio, by virtue of an office, save only Elders and Pastors, and that if they do or speak, they do it extraordinarily, when Churches hands are lame, and her eyes blind; or if they do and speak ordinarily, it is from the law of charity in a private way, not by power of the keys, and as Judges and Officers. Manuscript. 5 ch. 4 sect. The Churches, not the Angels of the Churches, are blamed for Way of the Church of Christ, in n. E. not executing censures against Balaam, Jezabel, the Nicolaitans. (g) Robinson saith more, 1. These whose works Christ commendeth, (b) Robinson pag. 141. for that dwelling where Satan's throne was, they kept his name and denied not his faith; these he reproveth for suffering the doctrine of Balaam and the Nicolaitans 13, 14, 15, 16. 2. They which were commended by Christ, for their works, love, service, faith, patience, increase of works; are reproved for suffering Jezabel, but these were not the Angels only. 3. These conjunctions (but) (never the less) say, though they were zealous in many things, yet they failed in not being zealous enough against false teachers. Ans. 1. These connexion's prove guiltiness in Angels or Pastors, and one common fault may be laid upon them all, but hence it followeth not; that they all, abused one and the same power of the Keys, as being all collateral Judges, no doubt the Angels preached not against Balaam, J●zabel, and the Nicolaitans doctrine, and yet women dwelled where Satan's throne is, and there faith and patience was commended, and yet our brethren will not say women are rebuked, and all the believers, because they did not pastorally preach against Balaam, and jezabel; so this argument hurteth them as much as our cause. The Pastors were guilty, because they did not in their place use the Keys; and the people, because they did not say to Archippus and their Officers, Take heed how you govern; as Israel was involved in Achans trespass, because they warned not one another. 2. Seeing the Spirit of God maketh mention of Churches in the plural number, and every one of the seven Churches, of Ephesus, Rev. 2. 7. of S●yrna, v. 11. of Pergamus 17. of Thyatira 29 of Sardis 3. 6. Philadelphia 13. Laodicea 22. It is clear, there were more Churches than a single Congregation, and an independent incorporation in every one of them, and so a Presbytery of Angels in every one of them behoved to be guilty of this neglect of discipline, yet not all one and the same way. It is not clear enough, though that the whole Church in Ephesus was to be rebuked, or that all and every one of the Elders, whereof there were a good number, (Act. 20. 26. He prayed with them all they all wept sore,) were guilty of these abuses of the power of the Keys; for in Sardis there were a few names which had not defiled their garments, yet the whole body is rebuked. Manuscript, Ch. 5. Sect. 4. When the word Congregation is put for the Elders or Judges only, Way of the Church of ch. in n. E. it is never understood of them sitting in consistery and judgement there alone by themselves, and apart from the people, but in the presence of the public assembly, who also had liberty in such cases to rescue an innocent from unjust judgement, 1 Sam. 14. 45. I answer, we urge not a Church assembly of Elders only to exclude the people from hearing yea and in an orderly way, from speaking, reasoning and disputing even in our General assembly, but for judicial concluding, we find not that given to any, but to the church-guide, Act. 15. 6. Act. 16. 4. 2 It is not a good argument, the people sat with the Rulers and rescued innocent Jonathan, 1 Sam. 14. Therefore all the people may fit and give judicial sentence or impede the Elders to sentence any. This I grant, is alleged by Ainsnorth a Ainsnorth. for to give popular government to the people; as also, 1 King 21. 13. and jer. 26. 11, 12. but 1. a fact of the people is not a Law. 2. It was one fact and that in an extraordinary case of extreme iniquity in killing innocent jonathan a Prince and Leader of the people. 3. in a civil business, and the people were to be executioners of the sentence of death, and they saw it manifestly unjust. 4. they were not the common people only, but in that company were the Princes of the Tribes and heads, and the King and his family only on the other side; what will this infer, but that there were no Kings in Israel, who had power of life and death, nor any judges, as Ainsworth, contrary to Scripture saith, but that the people were joint Judges with the King, and that the people in the New Testament are coequal Judges with the Elders, from so poor an example; and so the Separatists b Cons. art. 24. ap 8. proving from the people's power of judging in civil causes (which yet is a wide mistake) and a punishment bodily to be inflicted upon strangers as c John Paget defence of Paget doth learnedly observe; do conclude the people's power of judging in Ecclesiastic causes, which concerneth only the members Church-gover. ch. 3. pa. 13. and p 7. of the visible Church. Manuscript. We grant, it is orderly to tell the Elders the offence, that the whole Manus. ih, ch. 5. Sect. 4. Church be not frivolously troubled; but it followeth not, that the Officers may judge there alone without consent of the people: he who told his complaint to the Levite, told it orderly enough to the whole Congregation assembled at Mizpeh Jud. 20. Ans. These to whom we are to complain, these and these only, are to be heard, and obeyed as Judges binding and losing in Earth and validly in Heaven, Mat. 18. but these are not the multitude, nor one Elder only, but the Church of Elders. 2. if the Church of Believers be the only subject (as you teach) of the Keys, and not the Elders, but in so far as they are parts of the believing Church, than it is more orderly to complain to the multitude who only are proper Judges, then to Elders who are not properly Judges. Manuscript. A second reason why we allow such power to the people in Ib. Ch. 5. Sect. 4. Church censures, is from the Church of Corinth. 1. He directeth the whole Church of Corinth to whom he writeth, to excommunicate the incestuous man. Ans. He writeth to all the faithful, and so to women; the woman is not to usurp authority over the man, 1 Cor. 14. 34. 1 Tim. 2. 11, 12. but to voice judicially in Excommunication is an act of Apostolic authority. Manuscript. Ib. The whole Church is to be gathered together and to Excommunicate, Ergo not the Bishop and Elders alone, 3. Paul's spirit was to be with them and Christ's authority, 4. the whole Church, 2 Cor. 2. did forgive him, 5. nothing is in the Text that attributeth any power to the presbytery apart, or singularly above the rest, but as the reproof is directed to all, for not mourning, so is the Commandment of casting out directed to all. Ans. 1. It is clear that if some were gathered together in the power of Christ and the spirit of Paul, that is, in the authority that he received over the Corinthians, for edification, 2. Cor. 10. 8. and Paul's Rod, 1 Cor. 4. 21. then as many as were convened Church-ways, and mourned not for the same, did not cast out and authoritatively forgive; seeing women and believing children did convene with the whole Church, and were not humbled for the sin; and yet women and believing children cannot be capable of pastoral authority over the Church, which was given for edification. 2. The power of the Lord Jesus, that is, the keys of the Kingdom of God were committed to Peter, as to a Pastor, Mat. 16. and power to bind and retain, to lose and pardon sins, Joh. 20. 20, 21, 22. Which power is given to these who are sent as Ambassadors as the Father sent Christ, v. 21. which power cannot be given to puffed up women, 3. Except this be said, the Text must bear that there was not a Presbytery of Prophets, Governors and Teachers there of all, who had a more eminent act in excommunicating and Church pardoning, than the women who mourned not, for by what reason our brethren would have the act of excommunicating an act of the whole Church convened, including all to whom Paul writeth, women and children, by that same reason we may appropriate it to these only, who are capable of Paul's pastoral spirit, and authority, according as attributes are appropriated (by good logic) to their own subjects, else that cannot be expounded 1 Cor. 14. 31. For ye may all prophecy one by one. What? may all that the Apostle writeth unto, 1 Cor. 1. 2. prophecy one by one? even the whole Church, even all sanctified in Christ Jesus? called to be Saints, and all that in every place call upon the Lord jesus? I think our brethren will not say so: so when Paul saith, 1 Thess. 5. 12. Esteem highly of these that are over you if that command be directed to the whole Church of the Thessalonians which is in God our Father, as the Epistle is directed to them all, 1 Thess. 1. 1. then doth Paul command the Elders in Thessalonica to esteem highly of themselves, for their own works sake: if exhortations be not restricted according to the nature of the subject in hand we shall mock the Word of God, and make it ridiculous to all. Ainsworth saith, The putting away of leaven was commanded to all Israel. Ergo, the putting away of the incestuous person is commanded to them all in Corinth without exception, and the putting away of the Leper was commanded to all Israel. I answer. 1. Proportions are weak probations, 1. every single woman, 2. privately in her own house, 3. without Church's consent and authority was to put away Leaven; but it is a poor inference, therefore every woman in Corinth he●e alone might excommunicate without the Church's authority, and in their private houses. 2. The Priest only judicially putteth away the Leper, Deut. 17. 13. and the Priests without the people's consent put out Uzzah their Prince from the Sanctuary, when he was a Leper. 2. Ch●on. 26. 20. Manuscript. Lest this judgement should be restrained to Presbyteries only, he Manuscript, ●b. magnifieth the judging of the Saints, taking occasion from thence to stretch their judicature, in some cases, even to the deciding of civil causes, rather than that they should fly suddenly to Law one against another, before Infidels. Ans. That upon this Church judging, he taketh occasion to magnifiy the judging of the Saints, I see not, for he passeth to a new subject in reprehending their pleadng, before heathen Judges. 2. Though that cohesion of the Chapters were granted, yet doth he not magnify the Judging, of all the multitude, the Saints of men and women shall judge the world by assenting to Gods Judging, but all the Saints, even women, are not Church-Iudges. Also he extendeth Judging of civil causes to the most eminent Seniors amongst them v. 5. Is there not a wiseman amongst you? no, not one who shall be able to judge betwixt his brethren? and therefore he layeth a ground, that far less can all the rest of men and women be Judges Ecclesiastic to bind and lose validly in Earth and Heaven, but only the wiser and selected Elders. I may add what Master Robinson saith, that our argument from confession, may be objected to the Apostles no less then to Separatists, Acts 1. 23. They presented two; that is, the multitude which were about an hundred and twenty men and women, and Act 6. 5. And the while multitude presented seven Deacons to the twelve Apostles, and the twelve Apostles called the multitude, and so spoke to them and v. 6. prayed and laid hands on the Deacons. Now when the multitude Acts 1. presented Joseph and Mathias, it behoved them to speak; spoke they jointly, or all at once? this were confusion, contrary to, 1 Cor. 14. 14. did the women speak? they must not meddle in Church-maters, v. 34. did children speak? It is impossible; so Acts 6. did all the twelve Apostles speak at once? and pray (vocally) at once? did the whole multitude speak when they presented the seven Deacons? that is confusion; by these and the like, women and children are utterly excluded from the Church, as no parts of it, Acts 15. 22. The whole Church sent Messengers to Antioch, 1 Co●. 14. 23. the whole Church cometh together in one, to exercise themselves in praying and prophesying, but children could not send messengers nor pray, nor prophecy, and women might not speak in the Church, and therefore women and children must be excluded from being parts of the Church; if one be excluded, why not another? and so till we come to the chief of the Congreation. Ans. This is much for us every way; therefore the 120, Acts 1. and the multitude, Acts 6. did present the two elect Apostles, and the seven Deacons by some select persons, and when these select persons spoke, the Church spoke, and when one Apostle prayed the whole twelve prayed; Ergo, there is a representative Church which performeth Church actions in the name of the Church, and you will have a representative Church in the New Testament to be a point (as you say a Inf. pag. 163 ) of Judaisme; yet here you are forced to acknowledge it, 2. By all good reason when Christ, Mat. 18. saith if he refuse to hear the Church, that is, the speaking and commanding Church, let him be as a heathen, he must speak of a representative Church; for a collective body of all believers even women and children cannot command, nor soeak in the Church, and it were confusion that women and children should bind and lose on Earth as Christ doth in Heaven, and when Paul saith that the convened Church, 2 Cor. 5. should cast out the incestuous person, he meaneth not that they should all Judge him by the power and authority of Christ, and the pastoral spirit of Paul; therefore your doctrine is false, that as many are Judges in the Judicial acts of excommunication, as did not mourn for the sin, as were Saints by calling, and to whom Paul writeth, 1 Cor. 2. and as met together for the public worship, for it is as great confusion for women and children who are true parts of the Church to be judges, clothed with Christ's authority, and Paul's Ministerial spirit, as for women to speak, or for twelve Apostles to pray all at once vocally in the Church; and the whole Church is said, Acts 15. 22. to send messengers, and Canons to Antioch to be observed, and yet that whole Church are but, in the act of governing and decerning, and judicial passing of these acts, only Apostles and Elders, Acts 15. 2. v. 6. Act 16. 4: Act. 21. 5. (Ergo) it followeth not that we exclude women and children from being parts of the Church, or that all are excluded except Elders; all are parts of the mystical, and redeemed Church; officers are only the ministerial Church, and Mat. 18. Christ speaketh only of a ministerial Church in the judicial act of excommunication; though if you speak of excommunication in all the acts of it, we do not exclude the whole multitude, Mat. 8. nor 1 Cor. 5. from a popular consenting to the sentence, and a popular execution of the sentence of excommunication and therefore though the whole Church convene, yet the whole Church conveneth not with Paul's ministerial spirit to excommunicate judicially; either must our brethren here acknowledge a Synocdoche, as well as we, yea and a representative and select Church in the judicial act of excommunication, else they must say, that women and children, Ex officio, by a ministerial spirit do Judge and so speak in the Church, for he who Judgeth Ex officio, in the Church, may and must speak and excommunicate in the Church Ex officio: but more of this hereafter. CHAP. 3. SECT. 3. QUEST. 4. WHether or no is there a necessity of the personal presence of the whole Church in all the acts of Church-censures? The Author a Manuscript. The way of the Church of Ch. in n. E. giveth us ground for this question, whiles as he holdeth the company of believers clothed with the whole power of the keys, and these meeting all of them, even the whole Church to be the only visible instituted Church. And b Ainsworth animad vers. p. 20. 21. Ainsworth saith, with what comfort of heart can the people now excommunicate him, if they have not heard the proceedings against him? Let wise men judge, if this be not spiritual tyranny, that Elders would bring upon the conscience of men? Also it would seem● if the people be to execute the sentence of excommunication, that they cannot in faith repute the excommunicated man, as a Heathen and a Publican, and eschew his company, except they be assured in conscience, that he is lawfully cast out: now how shall they have this assurance? the Elders say, he is lawfully cast out, and the cast out man saith, no, but he is wronged; therefore it would seem that all the people must be personally present to hear that the process be lawfully deduced against him, else they punish, upon a blind faith, now the like question is, if Soldiers can make war, if they be not present at the counsel of war to know the just reasons of war, which the Prince and States do keep up to themselves, upon grave considerations. And the same is the question, if the Lictor and executioner of the Judge's sentence be obliged in conscience to know, if the Judge have proceeded orderly and justly, or if he upon the testimony of the Judge, may execute the sentence of death. 1. Distinction, There be odds betwixt a free willing people executing the sentence of the Church, and mere Executioners and Lictors. 2. Dist. There is a doubting of conscience speculative, through ignorance of some circumstance of the fact; and a doubt of conscience practical through ignorance of something, which one is obliged to know, and so there is also a speculative and a practical certainty of a thing. 3. Dist. There is one certaeinty required in question Juris, in a question of Law, and another in questione facti, in question of fact. 4. Dist. There is, and may be an ignorance invincible which a man cannot help, in a question of fact; but Papists and Schoolmen err, who maintain an invincible ignorance in question Juris, in a question of Law, and in this they lay imperfection on God's Word. 5. Dist. There is a moral diligence given for knowledge of a thing which sufficeth to make the ignorance excusable, and there is a moral diligence not sufficient. 6. Dist. There is a sentence manifestly unjust as the condemning of Christ by witnesses, belying one another, and a sentence doubtsomely false. 1. Conclu. The members of the visible Church are not mere Lictors and Executioners of the sentences of the Elder-ship, 1. Because they are to observe, warn, watch over the manners of their fellow members and to teach, exhort, and admonish one another; and are guilty, if they be deficient in that, 2. Because by the Law of charity, as they are brethren under one head Christ, they are to warn and admonish their Rulers. And by the same reasons the people of the Jews were not mere executioners, though they were to stone the condemned Malefactors, yet were they not Judges as Ainsworth saith. It is true Levit. 20. 2. they were to kill him who offered his seed to Moloch; but the precept is given first to Moses the supreme Magistrate, the accused for innocent blood stood before the children of Israel, Num. 35. 22. but their Gnedah signifieth the Princes, I●s. 20. 4. The slayer shall declare his cause before the Elders of that City, 2 Sam. 7. 7. there be Tribes who are feeding or governing Tribes, or 1 Chron. 17. 6. Judges: there is no reason to understand by the children of Israel or the Congregation, only the common people, when the word doth include a Congregation of Princes, so Num. 8. 11. the Levites are the children of Israel's shake-offering a Ainsworth animadvers. p. 25. Ainsworth saith the people are put for the Princes, the sins of unjust Judges are people's sins, not because they judicially exercise unjust acts, for they should not judge at all, but because they mourn not for the public sins of Judges, Eze. 9 9 and because the people love to have it so, Jer. 5. 31. 2. Concl. When the sentence of the Judge is manifestly unjust, the executioners and Lictors are not to execute it; for Doeg the Edomite sinned in killing the Lords Priests at the command of Saul, and the footmen of Saul did religiously refuse that service, 1 Sam. 22. 17. The Soldiers who crucified Christ, not only as men, but as Lictor's, sinned against a principle of the Gospel which they were obliged to believe (mary's son is the true Messiah) nor are we to join with a Church excommunicating a man, because he confessed Christ job. 9 nor need we consent to these, that the Senate of Venice is excommunicated by Paul the fifth An. 1607. and Henricus Borbonius King of Navarre by Sixtus 5. and Elizabeth of England by Pius 5. and Henry the 4. by Gregory 7. or Hilderland, and Martin Luther by Leo the 10. An. 1520. the Pope is not the Catholic Church, as many learned Papists, especially, the Parisian Theologues teach. 3. Concl There is not required the like certainty of conscience practical in a question of fact, that is required in a question of Law. 1. Because in a question of Law all ignorance is moral and culpably, evil to any who undertaketh actions upon conscience of obedience to others; for to all within the visible Church the word of God is exactly perfect, for faith and manners; and every on is obliged to know all conclusions of Law that are determinable by God's word. 2. Every one in his actions is to do● out of a plerophory, and a full persuasion of heart, that what he doth, pleaseth God, Rom. 14. 14. I know and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that nothing is unclean of itself. 3. We are to do nothing but what is lawful, and what in our consciences we are persuaded is lawful, and are to know what is sin, and what is no sin. All Soldiers in war, and Lictors, and these who execute the sentence of excommunication, are to know, what are the just causes of war, and what crimes by God's Law deserve death, and what not, as what homicide, sorcery, parricide, incest, and the like sins deserve by God's Law, and what not: because every one is obliged to know morally, what concerneth his conscience that he be not guilty before God; the executioner who beheaded john Baptist sinned, because he was obliged to know this (a prophet who rebuketh incest in a King, ought not to be put to death therefore) It was unlawful for the men of judah to come and make war with jeroboam and the ten Tribes, because God forbade that war, 1 Ki. 12. 23, 24. 4. Concl. It is not enough that some say, if the question be negatively just, than Soldiers and executioners, and people may execute the sentence, that is, if they see no unlawfulness in the fact, I mean unlaw fullness in materiâ juris, in a matter of Law; hence some say, subjects and common Soldiers not admitted to the secrets of the council of war, may fight lawfully, when there is this negative justice in the war; but foreign Soldiers who are conduced, may not do so a Regula juris 19 in 6. and 38. in ff. non est sine culpa, qui, rebus, quae ad ipsum non spectant, se immiscet, cum periculo alterius. for the Law saith he is not free of a fault who intermeddleth with matters which belong not to him, to the hurt of others; so Teacheth b Suarez, de tripl. virt dis. 13. de bello sect. 6. n. 8. Suarez c Bannes in 22. q. 40. concls. 1. D. Bannes d An. Duvallius in 22. tract. de charit. art. 3. Andr. Duvallius, yet the command of the Prince can remove no doubt of conscience, also that the cause of the war in the matter of Law, so far as it is agreeable to God's word is not manifest to executioners, is there culpable ignorance no less than the ignorance of a sentence manifestly unjust, Ergo, the practice of these who execute a sentence negatively only just, is not lawful, I prove the antecedent, beacuse the practical ignorance of what we do which is not warranted by God's Word is always culpable, whether the cause be clear or dark: for no obscurity of God's Law doth excuse our ignorant practice, when the Word of God can sufficienty resolve us. 2. It is not enough that our moral actions in their lawfulness be just negatively; because actions moral which are beside the Word of God (praeter dei verbum) to us, who hold God's Word perfect in faith and manners, are also, contra dei verbum, against the Word of God, and so unlawful. 3. Because actions moral having no warrant but the sole will and Commandment of superiors, are undertaken upon the sole faith: that what superiors command, if it seem not to us unjust, though it be in itself unjust, may lawfully be done. Now we condemn this in Schoolmen and Popish casuistes, that the Commandment of superiors (as saith Gregor. de Valent. Bannes, Suarez, Silvester, Navarre) may take away and remove all doubting of conscience, and make the action lawful. Whereas a Nava●re didst. 7. the poe●itē. c. St qu●s aute●. Navarre, b Corduba didst. 3 q. 4 & 5. Corduba c Sylvester confessor. 3. s. 10. Sylvester d Adrian quo. l libet 2. Adrian, hold that an action done without a due practical certainty is unlawful. If he should diligently ( e Suarez. 1. 1. par. 2. the oper. sex dier. de proxim. regul. bonit. & malit. dis. 12. sect. 5. n. 3. saith Suarez) search for the truth, and cannot find it, yet the doubter may practise, so he practically persuade himselse, he doth it out of a good mind; and whereas the Jesuit saith, that it is his negligence in not seeking the truth, he answereth, his negligence which is by past, cannot have influence in his present action, to make it unlawful, because it is past and gone. But I answer, it is Physically passed, but it is morally present, to infect the action as habitual ignorance, maketh the acts of unbelief morally worse or ill. And to these we may add, that he who doth with such a doubt, 1. He sinneth, because he doth not in faith f Rom. 14. 23 2. He exposeth himself to the hazard of finning, and of joining with an unjust sentence. 3. It is the corrupt Doctrine of Papists who muzzle up the people in ignorance, and discharge them to read God's Word, and so maintain (because of the obscurity and imperfection of God's Word which is not able to determine all questions) that there is an ignorance of many lawful duties which is invincible, and to be excused, as no ways sinful, and which vitiateth not our moral actions, so a Thomas 12. q. 19 art. 9 Thomas b Bonavent. ib. art. 1. q. 3 Bonaventura, c Richard act. 1. q. ●. Richard d Gabriel ib. a●t 3. Gabriel e Occam in 3. q. 3. Occam f Antoni. 1 part tit. 3. c. 10. s. 4. Antoninus g Adrian quod. l. 4. ar. 2. Adrianus h Almaintrac. de opere morali. 1. c. 5. Almain i Suarez de oper. sex dic● in 12 par. 2. the prox. Reg. Bon. & mal. act. dis. 12. sect. 4 n. 6. Suarez, though Occam and Almain may be expounded favourably. 5. Concl. Soldiers, Lictors, Servants, People under the Eldership, are not mere instruments moved only by superiors, as Schoolmen say. 1. Because they are moral agents, and are no less to obey in Faith, than superiors are to command in Faith and they are to obey their Superiors only in the Lord. 2. They are to give all diligence that they be not accessary to unjust sentences, lest they partake of other men's sins. What k Aquin. 22. q. 19 art. 9 Aquinas l Valentia. tom. 3. dis. 3. q. 16 princ. 2. Gregory de Valent m Duvallius 2. Tom. 1. tract. de human. act. 10 q. 4. art. 12. and And. Duvallius saith against this, is not to be stood upon. 6. Concl. But in questione facti, in matters of fact, there is not required that certainty of conscience. But that we may more clearly understand the conclusion, a question of fact is taken three ways. 1. For a fact expressly set down in God's Word, as that Moses led the people through the wilderness, that Cain slew his brother Ab●l, these are questions de facto, not questiones facti, and must be believed as n Almain. de potest. Eccle. & Laica. c. 16. Almain and o Occam. in. 3. q. 3. Occam say well, with that same certainty by which we believe God's Word. 2. A question of fact is taken for a question, the subject whereof is a matter of fact, but the attribute is a matter of Law, as (if Christ in saying he was the Son of God did blaspheme) if the Lords Priests in giving David shewbread, did commit Treason against King Saul) there is some question there made circa factum, about the fact, but it is formally a question of Law. For these questions may be cleared by God's Word, and the ignorance of any questions which may be cleared by God's Word, is vincible, and culpable, for the Law saith a Reg. juris Culpabilis est ignorantia rerum quas scire tenemur. The ignorance of these things which we are obliged to know is culpable, and excuseth not. But thirdly a question of fact is properly a question (whether this Corinthian committed incest or no) (whether Tittrs committed murder, or no) and in this there is sometimes invincible ignorance, when all diligence morally possible is given, to come to the knowledge of the fact. Now we know here the question of Law must be proved by the Law, all are obliged in conscience to know what sins deserve death and Excommunication. But whether this man john, Anna, Marie hath committed such sins, is a question of fact and cannot be proved by the Law, or the Word of God, for a Reg. juris lex non est de singularibus, lex non c●rat de particula●●bus. the L●● is not anent singulars or particulars, this is proved by sense and the Testimony of witnesses; and therefore the certainty practical of conscience here is humane and failible, not Divine and infallible. Now though Soldiers, Lictors, or People join to the execution of a sentence, and have their doubtings anent the fidelity of the witnesses, yet when all diligence morally possible is given to try the matter, they may well be said to do in Faith, though they have not certainty of Faith concerning the fact,, because there cannot be certainty of Divine Faith in facts; men's confession, sense, the Testimony of witnesses cannot breed Divine Faith: yea here the Judge himself may condemn the innocent, and yet the sentence of the Judge may be most just because the witnesses are Liars, and the Judge giveth out that sentence in Faith, because God's Word hath commanded him to proceed, secundum allegata & probata, he must give sentence under b Deut. 19 15. Mat. 18. 16. ● Tim 5. 19 Exod. 23. 1. two or three witnesses; yea, though the Judge saw, with his Eyes, the guilty commit the fact, yet he cannot by Gods Law condemn him, but upon the testimony of witnesses▪ For the wise Lord seeth what confusion and tyranny should follow, if one might be both Index, actor, & t●stis, the judge, the accuser, and the witness. And when the Judge giveth out a sentence to absolve the guilty and condemn the innocent, his sentence is judicially and formally just, and materially and by accident and contrary to his intention only unjust, if the Judge in that case should say (as Master Weemes observeth well) c joh. Weemes 3. vel expos. of judicial Larres ch. 17. p. 69. such a proposition is true when he knoweth it to be false, and being posed and urged in conscience, is this an innocent man or no? it he should answer and say he is not, he should then answer contrary to his knowledge? but as a Judge he must answer, he is not innocent, because witnesses being with all possible diligence examined, have condemned him, and it is no inconvenience here to say, that the Judge hath one conscience as a man, and another contrary conscience as a Judge, in the question of fact; for God hath tied his conscience, as a Judge, to the fidelity of witnesses, known not to be false. I desire the Reader to see anent this more in a Bonavent. 1. q9. Bonaventura b Rich. a●t. 1. q 3. Richardus c Occam. q● 3. a●. 3. Occam d Anton. 1. ●. ● act. 3. ca 10. ●. 4. Antoninus e Adrian. quod. lib. 4 〈◊〉. ●●. Adrian, f Weemes loc. cit. and our Countryman john Weemes and g Henricus 2●. quail. 1. q. 8. Henricus. Now because Soldiers, Lictors, and people are not Judges, if they know the fact in Law deserveth such and such punishments, where the sentence is not manifestly false and unjust, but in the matter of Law just, though erroneous in the matter of fact, all possible diligence being used by the Judges, they are to execute that sentence upon the testimony of the Judges, though they be not personally present at the proceedings of the Judges and Eldership which may be proved many ways. 1. By the confession of our brethren, i● any of the Congregation be absent by Sickness, Childbirth pain, Trading over Sea, imprisonment, the Congregation doth justly put away from amongst them the incestuous Corinthian, and they who are absent are to repute the party Excommunicate, as a Heathen; as their own practice is at censures in the weekday, the largest half of the Congregation is absent, yet the absent upon the testimony of the Church hold valid what is done by the Church. 2. Other sister Churches who ought not to be present at Church-censures, as our Brethren teach, are to repute the Excommunicate cast out by a sister Church-independent (as they say) as an Heathen, because being bound in Heaven: here, is he not bound in a Church visible, one mile distant from the Church Excommunicating? yet this is no tyranny of conscience. 3. Women are to execute the sentence and to eschew the company of the party Excommunicated, yet are they not to be present ●s Judges to n●●rp authority over the men. This h Robnson justi●. of separate. p. 170. Robinson granteth. 4. This should evert all judicatories of peace and war, so many thousands, Acts 2. could not be present at every act of censure and that daily, nor are acts o● Discipline necessarily tied to the Lordsday They are (I grant) acts of Divine worship, but the whole multitude of women and children are deprived of the liberty that God hath given them for six days to the works of their calling, if they must be personally present, at all the acts of Discipline, to cognosce of all scandals, and to here and receive Testimonies against Elders under two or three witnesses, which is the office of Timothy i ● Tim. 5. ●●. this way the overseeing of the manners of the people, which also our Brethren lay upon the whole people, taketh up the great part of the Pastor's office, and the whole office of ruling Elders. And if we lay upon the people the work and all the acts of the office, how can we not lay upon them the office itself? 5. All Israel gathered to war, from Dan to Beersheba, could not, by virtue of duty and obligation, be present personally at the determination of lawful War: Nay if they were all present, as Judges, as c Ains. loc. cit. Mr. Ainsworth would have them, there be no Governors and Feeders in Israel, but all the governed are Feeders, and so no Magistrate and Ruler, as Anabaptists teach here. 1. It were not lawful for one to be King over more people, than he could in his own personal presence judge, contrary to God's Word, that teacheth us to obey these who are sent by the supreme Magistrate, as we obey the King, 1 Pet. 2. 13. 14. Ergo, these who are sent by him are lawful Judges, and yet the King Judgeth by them, and in them. 2. This error is founded upon a worse error, to wit, that the supreme Magistrate had no power of life and death in Israel, without consent of the people, but certainly there are as specious and plausible reasons, if not more specious, for the people's government in all civil matters, than there can be for their Church-power of judging in the Church-matters, and government thereof. Yet there is no ground for it. 1. Because the Rulers only could not be charged, to execute judgement in the morning, to deliver the oppressed, to execute judgement for the Fatherless and the Widow, nor can there be a promise made to establish, the King's Throne for obeying that Commandment, as (a) God's Jer. 22. 3, 4, 5. Deut. 17. 18, 19, 20. 1 Ki. 11. 38. 39 Isa. 1. 22. 23. Word teacheth; if the people have as great, yea, greater power in Judging, than the Rulers have by this our brethren's argument. They say all the Believers at Corinth. 1 Cor. 5. could not be commanded to cast out the incestuous person, nor could they all be taxed for omitting that duty, if they had not power to excommunicate. 2. Neither can the Spirit of God complaint that the Judges builded Zion with blood, and the heads of the house of Jacob, and Princes of the house of Israel did abhor judgement and pervert equity as the Prophets say, e Micah. 3. 9, 10. 11. nor could they be condemned as roaring Lions and evening Wolves, as the Prophet saith: for the Judge● might well be faultless, when the poor were crushed in the Gate, and Judgement turned into Gall and Wormwood, because they cannot help the matter, the people are the greatest part in caring matters in judgement. 2. We see f Zeph. 3. 3. David's practice in condemning the Amalckite out of his own confession, not ask the people's consent, and in condemning to death g 2 Sam. 1. 15 Baanah and Rehab, for killing Ishbosheth. Solomon gave sentence h 2 Sam. 4. 8. 12. against Adoniiah, joab, Shimei, without consent of the people, David pardoned Shimei contrary to the counsel of Zerviahs' sons. 3. If from the people's witnessing and hearing of judgement in the Gate, we conclude the people were Judges, with the Rulers, there was never a time, when there was no King in Israel, and no judge to put evil doers to shame, but every man did what seemed good in his own Eyes, contrary to Scripture i 1 Ki. 2. because all are a generation of Kings and Princes no less than the Ruler himself, as Anabaptists teach. By the Doctrine of Jud. 18. 1. v. 7. our brethren I deny not but he that gathered sticks on the Sabbath was brought, Num. 15. 33. to Moses and to Aaron and to all the Congregation, but the Congregation signifieth not the common multitude. For 35. Moses received the sentence from God and pronounced it, and the Congregation stoned him to death, And Numb. 27. 1. The Daughters of Zelophehad stood before Moses, Eleazar, and before the Princes as judges, and before all the Congregation, as witnesses, not as Judges: but v. 6. 7. Moses gave out the judicial sentence, from the Lords mouth. And 1 King. 21. 12. Naboth stood in presence of the people to be judged, but the Nobles and Princes were his Judges, because v. 8. jezabel wrote to the Nobles and Princes that v. 10. they should carry out Naboth and stone him, to wit, judicially, and v. 11. The Nobles and Princes did as jezabel had sent unto them. And jeremiah cap. 26. pleaded his cause before the Princes and people, for v. 10. The Princes. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Set down (judicially) in the entry of the new gate of the Lords House, nothing can be gathered from the place to prove that the people judged, but because jeremiah spoke to the Princes and the people who vers. 24: were in a fury and rage against jeremiah, if Ahikam had not saved him from their violence. CHAP. 4. SECT. 4. QUEST. 5. WHether there be no national or provincial Church under the New Testament, but only a parishional Congregation meeting every Lord's day, in one place for the worship of God? The Author, in this first proposition denieth that there is any national or provincial Church, at all, under the New Testament, for clearing of the question observe these. 1. Dist. We deny that there is any diocescan, provincial or national Church under the care of one Diocesan or national Prelate or Bishop, but hence it followeth not, there is no visible instituted Church now, but only a particular Congregation. 2. Dist. We deny any national typical Church, where a whole Nation is tied to one public worship, in one place, as sacrificing in the Temple. 3. Dist. We deny not but the most usual acception of a Church, or visible meeting is given, as the a 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 cont. Tylen. parenes. l. 1. c. 25. sect. 4. & 5. refutator of Tylenus saith, to a convention of people meeting ordinarily to hear the word and adminstrate the Sacraments b Steph. in Thesau. Stephanus deriveth it from 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. And c Cyrill. Hyerosolamita. Cyrillus 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. As d Causab. cont. Baron. 6. 42. Causabon observeth; so these who meet at one Sermon are called Ecclesia, a Church, and it is called Ecclesia & concio, saith the Refutator of Tilen, e Loc. cit. but this hindereth not the Union of more particular Congregations, in their principal members for Church-government, to be the meeting or Church representative of these many united Congregations. 4. Dist. A Parish-Church material, is a Church within such local bounds, the members whereof dwell contiguously togegether, one bordering on the other, our Brethren, mean not of such a Church; for as f Baynes diocesan trial. q. 1. p. 12. Pa●● Baynes saith well this God instituted not, because a company of Papists and Protestants may thus dwell together, as in a Parish, and yet they axe of contrary Churches, a Parish-Church formally is a multitude who meet in manner or form of a Parish, as if they dwelled near together in a place ordinarily, to worship God, as the 〈◊〉 of those who came together to celebrate the Lords Supper, is called the Church, 1 Cor. 11. 18. For first of all when ye come together in the Church, I hear that there are divisions amongst you. 〈◊〉 what? have ye not houses to eat and drink in? or despise ye the Church of God? 1. Concl. If we shall evince a Church-visible in the Now Testament which is not a Parishional Church, we evince this to be false which is maintained by our Brothren, that there is no visible instituted Church in the New Testament save only a Parishional Church, or a single independent Congregation. But this Church we conceive to have been no Parishional Church. 1. Because these who met daily and continued with one accord in the Temple, and breaking bread from house to house, that is, administrating the Sacraments together as our Brethren say, were a visible Church. But these being first an hundred and twenty, as Acts 1. and then three thousand added to them, Acts 2. 41. could not make all one single independent Congregation, whereof all the members had voice in actual government▪ Ergo, they were a visible instituted Church, and yet not a Parishional Church. The proposition is clear, The Church of jerusalem was one visible Church, and did exercise together a visible act of government, in sending messengers to 〈◊〉 Acts 15. 22. Then pleased it the Apostles and Elders and the whole Church (our Brethren say, the whole collective Church Men, Women, and Children at jerusalem) to send men of their own company to Antioch 23. And wrote Letters, and some Decrees and Commandments to be observed. Now the many thousands of the Church of jerusalem, by no possibility could meet a● one Parish, in one material house to administrate the Lords Supper: far less could they be, as is said; Acts 2. 42. all continuing steadfastly in the Apostles Doctrine and followship (our Brethren say in Parishional or congregational fellowship) and in breaking of bread and prayer, nor could they daily continue in the Temple and break bread from house to house, being all one Church, or a fixed parishional meeting in one material house. Now it is clear, they were 〈◊〉 even after they exceeded many thousands in number, in one Parishional and congregational government, as our Brethren would prove from Acts 15, 22, 23, 24, 25. And Acts 2. 42, 43. Else how could they have all their goods common, if there be not one visible government amongst them? but this government could not be of one single Congregation; for all who sold their goods, and had all things common, could not meet to give voices in Discipline, a judicatory of so many thousand Judges were impossible and ridiculous. 2. Paul writeth to the Galatians, where there were many Parish, Churches, Gal. 1. 2. as our Brethren teach, yet doth he write to them, as he doth to the Corinthians: where our Brethren will have one Parish- Church, and writeth to them of uniformity of visible government, that they meet not together to keep days, Sabbaths, and years Gal. 4. 10. as the jews did, that they keep not jewish and ceremonial meetings, and conventions, Gal. 4. 9 these Churches are called one lump in danger to be leavened, as Corinth is a Parishional lump in hazard to be leavened, as our Brethren teach. Now how could Paul will 1 Cor. 5. them that the whole lump of all the Churches and Congregations in Galatia, be not leavened, except he lay down a ground, that they were with united authority to join in one visible government, against the false Teachers: suppose there were twenty sundry Kings in Britain, and twenty Kingdoms, could our friends over Sea write to us as to one national lump, to beware of the Spanish faction, except they laid down this ground, that all the twenty little Kingdoms, had some visible union in Government, and might with joint authority of all the twenty Kingdoms concur to resist the common Enemy? Here that godly and learned Divine Mr. Baynes saith, Communion in government is not enough to make them one Church, this (saith he) a Paul Baynes dioces. trial. q. 1. p. 13. ib. p. 11. maketh them rather one in tertio quodam separabili (in a third thing which may be separated) than one Church; Government being a thing that cometh to a Church now constituted, and may be absent, the Church remaning a Church, I answer this is a good reason against the Prelates Diocese●n Church, which, as Baynes saith well, is such a frame in which many Churches are united with one head- Church (under one Lord prelate, common Pastor to all the Pastors and particular Congregations of the Diocese) as part aching of holy things, or at least in that power of government, which is in the chief, Church, for all the others within such a circuit. Now the prelate's frame of a properly so called Church, under one Pastor being a Creature with a hundred heads, having Church and pastoral care of a hundred little Congregations and Churches, is a dream, for we know no such Church fed by a Prelate, nor no such prelatical Argos to oversee so many flocks; nor do we contend that the many Congregations united in a presbyterial government, do make a mystical visible Church meeting for all the Ordinances of God. But union of many Congregations in a visible government is enough to make all these united Churches one visible, ministerial and governing Church who may meet, not in one collective body, for the worship of God; yet in one representative body, for government: though worship may be in such a convened Church also, as we shall hear. The name of the Church I think is given to such a meeting, Mat. 18. 17. Acts 15. 22. though more usually in Scripture the Church is a fixed Congregation, convened for God's worship: now government is an accident separable, and may go and come to a mystical Church; but I think it is not so to a Ministerial governing Church. So the Church of Ephesus is called a Church in the singular number, Rev. 2. 1. and all the Churches of Asia, Rev. 1. 20. but seven Churches; and Christ directeth seven Epistles to these seven, and writeth to Ephesus as to a Church having one government, v. 2. Thou hast tried them which say they are Apostles and are not, and hast found them liars. This was Ecclesiastical trial by Church-Discipline, yet Ephesus contained more particular Congregations then one. 1. Because Christ speaking to Ephesus only, saith, v. 7. He that hath an Ear● to hear let him hear what the spirit saith unto the Churches, in the plural number 2. Because there were a good number of preaching Elders in Ephesus, Acts 20. 28. 36. 37. and it is incongruous to God's dispensation to send a multitude of pastors, to over see ordinarily one single and independent Congregation. 3. This I have proved from the huge multitudes converted to the Faith in Ephesus, so huge and populous a City where many jews and Greeks dw●l●, and where the Word of God grew so mightily, Acts 19 17, 18, 19, 20. and Christ writeth to every one of the seven Churches as to one, and yet exhorteth seven times in every Epistle, that Churches in the plural number hear what the spirit saith. Now as our Brethren prove that the Churches of Galatia, so called in the plural number, were many particular Churches, so do we borrow this argument, to prove that every one of the seven Churches, who are seven times called Church in the plural number, contained many Congregations under them, yet doth. Christ write to every one of the seven, as having one visible Government. 2. Concl. A national typical Church● was the Church of the jews, we deny. But a Church national or provincial of Cities, Provinces, and Kingdoms, having one common government, we think cannot be denied: so Paul Baynes citeth for this, 1 Pet. 1. 1. 1 Pet. 5. 2. Though we take not the Word Church for a my sticall body, but for a ministerial company. But Acts 1. Mathias was elected an Apostle by the Church, as our Brethren confess, but not by a particular Congregation who met every Lordsday, and in ordinary to partake of all the holy things of God, the Word and Sacraments. 1. Here were the Apostles, whose Parish- Church was the whole World, Mat. 28. 19 Go teach all Nations 2. In this Church were the brethren of Christ from Galilee, Acts 1. 14. and some from Jerusalem v. 15. 3. No particular Church had power Ecclesiastical, as this Church had power to choose an Apostle, who was to be a Pastor over the Churches of the whole World, as our brethren teach, so * Paget defence of Church government Chap. 6. Mr. Paget saith well; These Disciples who waited upon Christ, such as Barsabas and Mathias, were no members of the Church of Jerusalem, and so what pow●r had a particular Church to dispose of them, who were no members of their Church? 3. That which concerneth all, must be done by all, and that which concerneth the feeding and governing of the Church of the whole World, must be done by these who represent the Church of the whole World; but that Mathias should be chosen, and ordained an Apostle to teach to the whole World, concerned all the Churches, and not one particular Church 〈◊〉, Therefore there was here either no Church (which no man dare say) for ●here is here a company of believers where there is preaching and Church▪ government, v. 15. 16. 26. or then there was here a Congregation which is against sense and Scripture; or there is a Church Provincial, Natural, or Oecumenick; call it as you please, it is a visible Church instituted in the New Testament, after the ascension of Christ, and not a Parishional Church. Some answer, this was extraordinary and merely Apostolic, that an Apostle should be ordained, and is no warrant for a national Church now, when the Churches of Christ are constituted. But I answer, this distinction of ordinary and extraordinary is wearied and worn to death with two much employment. 2. Beza, Calvin, Piscator, Tilenus, Whittaker, Chamier, Pareus, Bucanus, professors of Leyden, Walaeus, Willet, P. Martyr, Ursinus, etc. and all our Divines, yea a Lorin. comment in act. Lorinus the J●suite, b Cajetan come. ●b. Cajetan, allege this place with good reason to prove, that the ordination and election of Pastors belongeth to the whole Church, and not to one man, Peter, or any Pope. Yea c Robin justi. p. 168, 169. Robinson and all our Brethren, use this place, to prove, that the Church to the second coming of Christ hath power to ordain, and exanthorate and censure her officers. 2. We desire a ground for this, that the Ecclesiastical power of the Church which is ordinary and perpetual to Christ's second coming, should join as a collateral cause in ordination and election of an Apostle▪ which ordination is extraordinary, temporary & apostolic; see for this d Pet. Martyr come in 1 Cor. 15. Pet. Martyr e Whittaker come. 4 q. 1. p. 381 Whittaker f Bilson perpet. govern. p 338. Bilson g Chamier pan. l. 6. ●om 2. Chamier, h Pareus 1 Cor. 1. 5. come. Mat. 18. Pareus, i Beza, annot. in act. 1. v. 23. & 26. Beza. k Calvin. comment in act. 1. 26. Calvin, l Harmon. confess. art. 29, 30. Harmony of the confessions m 〈◊〉 de Eccl. li 1. c. 4 junius, n Cartwright refut R●em 1 Gor. 5 3 4 Cartwright o Fulk against the Rhemistes act 1. 26 Fulk p Ursin explic. Par 2. p. 534. Ursinus q Zwinglius expl act. 1. 23. 26 Zwinglius r Munsterus in Mat. 18. Munsterus, and s Theodoret. dialog. 1. Theodoret▪ would have us to rest upon Apostolic demonstrations like this. And t Irenaeus cont Herm●g lib. 3. Irenaeus speaketh against rectifiers of the Apostles in this u Cyprian l. 2. Epist. 4. Cyprian saith the like, 2 Acts 6. A Church of Hebrews and Grecians, together with the twelve Apostles is not a particular Ordinary Congregation, and a governing Church choosing Deacons, therefore they are a national Church; though the first ordination of Deacons be merely Apostolic, and immediately from jesus Christ, yet the ordination of these seven persons was a work of the Church's power of the keys. Now let our Brethren speak, if this was a congregational Church, that meeteth ordinarily to the word and Sacraments, such as they say the Church of Corinth was, 1 Cor. ●1. 18. So say I of the Church, Acts 15. 22. called Apostles, Elders and Brethren and the whole Church, this could not be a particular Church; for no particular Congregation hath Ecclesiastical power to prescribe Decrees, and Canons to all the Churches of the Gentiles, and that this was done by an ordinary Ecclesiastic power that remaineth perpetually in a Church, such as this was, is clear, because our Brethren prove that the whole multitude spoke in this Church from vers. 12. Then all the multitude kept silence, and therefore the multitude (say our Brethren) spoke from v. 21. all the Church voiced in these Decrees and Canons, say they. 3. Sister Churchers keep a visible Church-communion together. 1. They hear the word, and partake of the Seals of the Covenant, occasionally one with another. 2. They eschew the same excommunicated heretic, as a common Church-enemy to all. 3. They exhort, rebuke comfort, and edify one another, as members of one body visible. 4. If one sister Church fall away, they are to labour to gain her, and if she will not be gained, as your Author saith a Way of the Church of Chin N. E. c. 6. sect. 1. they tell it to many sister Churches, if she refilse to hear them. they forsake Communion with her. 1. Here is a visible body of Christ, and his Spouse, having right to the keys, word and seals of grace. 2. Here is a visible body exercising visible acts of Church-fellowship one toward another. Hence here a visible Provincial, and national Church exercising the specific acts of a Church. Ergo, Here is a Provincial and national Church. For to whom that agreeth which essentially constituteth a Church visible, that must be a visible Church. You will say, they are not a visible Church because they cannot, and do not ordinarily all meet in one material house, to hear one and the same word of God, and to partake of the same Seals of the Covenant jointly: but I answer 1. This is a begging of the question. 2. They perform other specific acts of a visible Church, then to meet ordinarily, to partake jointly, and at once, of the same ordinances. 3. If this be a good reason that they cannot be a national Church, because they meet not all ordinarily to hear the some word, and to partake of the same Ordinances, than a local and visible and ordinary union jointly in the same worship, is the specific essence of a visible Church; but then there was no visible national Churches in judea, for it was impossible that they could all meet in one material house, to partake of the same worship. 4. These who for sickness and necessary avocations of their calling, as Navigation, Traffiquing and the like, cannot ordinarily meet with the congregation to partake jointly with them of these same Ordinances, lose all membership of the visible Church, which is absurd; for they are cast out for no fault. 5. This is not essential to a national Church, that they should ordinarily all jointly meet for the same worship, but that they be united in one ministerial government, and meet in their chief members, and therefore our Brethren use an argument, à specie ad gen●s negatiuè; a provincial or national company of believers cannot perform the acts of a particular visible Church; Ergo, such a company is not a visible Church, just as if I would reason thus: A Horse cannot laugh; Ergo, he is not a living Creature, or it is an argument à negatione unius speciei, ad negationem alterius, such a company is not such a congregational Church, Ergo, it is no visible Church at all; an Ape is not a reasonable Creature. Ergo, it is not an Ape. 3. Conclu. There aught to be a fellowship of Church communion amongst all the visible Churches on Earth; Ergo de jure and by Christ his institution there is an universal or catholic visible Church. I prove the antecedent. 1. Because there ought to be mutual fellowship of visible Church-duties, as where there is one internal fellowship, because Eph. 4. 4. we are one body, one spirit, even as we are called in one hope of our calling, v. 5. one Lord, on Father, one Baptism, v. 6. one God, and Father of all. There also should there be external fellowship, and Church- fellowship, of exhorting, rebuking, comforting, and Church-praying, and Church-praising, in the behalf of all the visible Churches on earth, even for those, whose faces we never saw, Coloss. 2. 1. and when one national Church falleth away, the visible Churches of the Christian world are obliged to rebuke, and to labour to gain such a Church, and if she will not be gained, to renounce all the foresaid communion with such an obstinate Nation. 2. As the Apostles had one public care of all the Churches, and accordingly kept visible fellowship, as they had occasion to preach, write to them, pray, and praise God for them, so this care as Apostolic I grant is gone and dead with the Apostles; but the pastoral and Church-care, and consequently acts of external fellowship are not dead with the Apostles, but are left in the Church of Christ, for what Church-communion of visible fellowship members of one particular congregation keep one with another, that same by due proportion, ought national Churches to keep amongst themselves. 3. This is clear Act. 1. where particular Churches with the Apostles did meet, and take care to provide a Pastor and an Apostle, Mathias, for the whole Christian Church, and why ●ut particular Churches, are hereby taught to confer all Church-authority that God hath given them, for the rest of the visible Churches; and the Churches convened in their special members, Acts 15. 12. extended their Church-care, in a Church-communion of Ecclesiastic canons to all the visible Churches of the Jews and Gentiles. Hence Oecumenick and general counsels should be jure divino, to the second coming of Christ; Neither need we stand much on this that our Brethren say, that one Catholic visible Church is a night dream, because no Church is visible save only a particular congregation, the external communion whereof in meeting in one material house ordinarily, and partaking of the same word and Sacraments, doth incur in our senses, whereas a Church communion and visible fellowship with the whole Christian Churches on Earth is impossible, and no ways visible. But I answer, if such a part of the Sea, the British Sea be visible, then are all the Seas on earth visible also, though they cannot all come in one man's senses at one and the same time; so if this Church particular be visible, than all the Churches also in their kind are visible. 2. There be acts of Church-communion external with all the visible Churches on earth, Ergo, the whole Catholic Church according to these acts is visible. I prove the antecedent, we pray in a Churchway publicly for all the visible Churches on earth, we praise churchways publicly for them, we fast and are humbled churchways before God when they are in trouble, and so ought they to do with us; we by preaching, writing, and Synodical constitutions proclaim the common enemy of all the Churches to be the Antichrist, his doctrine and the doctrine of that body whereof he is Head to be false and heretical, by writings we call all the people of God to come out of Bab●l, and we renounce external communion with Rome, in Doctrine, Discipline, Ceremonies: and Rites, all which are Church-acts of external communion with the reformed catholic visible Churches, neither to make a Church visible to us, is it requisite that we should see the faces of all the members of the Catholic visible Church, and be in one material Church with them at once, partaking of the same visible worship: yea, so the Church of judea should not be one visible Church, which our Brethren must deny, for they had one Priest hood, on Temple, one Covenant of God visibly professed by all; yet could they not all meet in one material Temple to partake together at once of all Gods O dinance●. For I partake in external worship with these of New England, who are baptised according to Christ's institution, without the sign of the cross, though I never saw their faces. Hence all may see that Oecumenick council's are de jure and Christ's lawful Ordinances, though de facto they be not, through the corruption of our nature; yet such a visible Church-fellowship in external Church-communion is kept in the whole catholics Church visible, as may be had, considering the perversity of men, and the malice of Satan. It is constantly denied by our brethren, that the Church of the jews was a congregational Church, and of that frame and institution with the Christian Church: but that it was peculiar and merely in laical to be a national Church; yet let me have liberty to offer a necessary distinction here. 1. a national Church is either when a whole Nation, and all the Congregations and Synogogues thereof are tied by Divine precept, to some public acts of typical worship, in one place, Which the Lord hath chosen; so all Israel were to sacrifice at Jerusalem only, and the Priests were to officiate in that kind, there only, and they to pray toward the Temple, or in the Temple, and they to present the male children there, as holy to the Lord, Luke 2. 23 etc. this way indeed the Church of the Jews, in a peculiar manner, was a national Church; and thus far our brethren's arguments do well conclude, that the Jewish Church was national in a peculiar manner proper to that Church only. But a national Church is taken in another sense now, for a people to whom the Lord hath revealed his statutes and his testimonies, Whereas he hath not dealt so with every Nation, Psal. 147. 19, 20. which Church is also made up of many Congregations and Synagogues, having one worship and government that doth morally concern them all. Thus the jewish Church was once national, and that for a time; God chose them of his free grace, to be a people to himself, Deut. 7. 7. and Deut. 32. 8. When the most high divided to the Nations their inheritance. jacob was the lot of his inheritance, Amos 3. 2. You only have I chosen of all the families of the earth. But the Jewish Church was in this sense but national for a time; Now hath God (Act. 11. v. 18.) also granted to the Gentiles repentance unto life, and called the Gentiles, and made them a national Church, Host 1. 11. 1 Pet. 2. 10, 11. Esay 54. 1, 2, 3. that is, he hath revealed his testimonies to England, to Scotland, and He hath not done so to every Nation. So if a false Teacher should go through Israel and call himself the power of God, as Simon Magus did. All the Congreations and Synagogues in Israel might join together to condemn him; if there were such a thing as an Ark in Scotland, if it were taken captive as the Prelates kept the Gospel in bonds, it were a moral duty to all the Congregations, to convene in their principal Rulers and Pastors to bring again the Ark of God, and by the power of Discipline to set it free; and if the whole Land were involved in a national apostasy, they are to meet in their principal members, and this is moral to Scotland, as to Israel by Ordinances of the Church to renew a Covenant with God, that his wrath may be turned off the Land. In this sense, we see it never proved, that it was peculiar to Israel, only to be a national Church. Nay, I affirm, that the Jews had their congregational Churches, as we have. For that is a congregational Church which meeteth, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in that same place, for Doctrine and Discipline. But the Jews meet every Sabbath in their Synagogues, for teaching the people, God's Law, and for Discipline. Ergo, the people of the Jews had their congregational Churches, as we have. The major proposition is the doctrine of our brethren, except they say, (as its like they must) that except they meet to partake of all the Ordinances of God, they are not a congregational Church. Yet truly this is but a knot in a Rush, for 1 Cor. 14 meeting for prophesying only, is a Church Convention; and the forbidding of women to teach in the Church, is an ordering of a congregational worship; and the meeting of the Church for baptising of Infants, is in the mind of our brethren the formal meeting of a congregational Church, though they should not celebrate the Lords Supper. 2. What Ecclesiastical meetings can the meeting of God's people be, in the Synagogues of God, as they are called▪ Psal. 74. 8 for hearing the Word, and for exercise of Discipline, if not the Church meeting in a Congregation? I prove the assumption by parts, and first I take it to be undeniable, that they did meet for doctrine, Act. 15. 21. For Moses of old time hath in every City them that preach him, being read in the Synagogue every Sabbath day. And Ps. 74. 8, 9 these two are jointly complained of, as a great desolation in the Church, the burning of God's Synagogues in the Land. And v. 8. that there are no Prophets which know how long. And Math. 9 35. Christ went about all Cities and Villages teaching in their Synagogues. Luke 4 16. He went into the Synagogue on the Sabbath day, and stood up to read, Math. 6. 2. And when the Sabbath day was come, he began to teach in the Synagogue; and many hearing him were astonished. Luke 6. 6. And it came to pass, another Sabbath day, he entered into the Synagogue and taught. John 18. 20. I ever taught in the Synagogues, and daily in the Temple whither the Jews always resort. Math. 13. 54. And when he was come into his own● Country, he taught them in their Synagogue, in as much as they were astonished. And that there was ruling & government in the Synagogue, is clear, 1, by their Rulers of the Synagogue, Act. 13. 15. Act. 18. 17. 8. Luke 13. 14. Mark 5. 22. 35. And if this Ruler had been any save a Moderator, if he had been an unlawful Officer, Christ would not have acknowledged him, nor would Paul, at the desire of the Rulers of the Synagogue have preached, as he doth, Acts 13. 15, 16. 2. Also, if there was teaching cisputing, concerning the Law in the Synagogue, there behoved to be some ordering of these acts of worship; for only approved Prophets were licenced to preach in their Synagogues, to say nothing that there was beating in the Synagogues, and therefore there behoved to be Church discipline. Hence that word of delivering up to the Synagogue. Luke 21. 12. 3. There was the censure of excommunication, and casting out of the Synagogue, and a cutting off from the Congregation. Hence that act of casting out of the Synagogue any who should confess Jesus. John 12. 42. which they executed on the blind man, John 9 34. It is true, our brethren deny that there was any excommunication in the Church of the Jews, and they allege, that the cutting off from the people of God, was a taking away of the life by the Magistrate's Sword; or, (as some other say) Gods immediate hand of judgement upon them. But 1. to be cut off from the congregation, or from the people of God, is never called simply offcutting, and expounded to be destroying, as it is Genes. 9 11. but expressed by dying the death: for who will conceive that the Sword of the Magistrate was to cut off the male child that is not circumcised, who is said to be cut off from the people of God, Gen. 17. 14. or to cut off by death the parents? I grant the phrase signifieth bodily death. Exod. 31. 14. and for this God sought to kill Moses. But Divines say it was excommunication, and never Ruler in Israel executed this sentence: not Moses, nor any Judge that ever we read taken away the life of an infant for the omission of a ceremony. Nor are we to think, that for eating leavened bread in the time of the Passover, the Magistrate was to take away the life, as is said. Levit. 7. 20, 21. 2. ●his word, to cut off, is expounded, 1 Cor. 5. to put away; which was not by death, for he willeth them, 2 Cor. 2. to pardon him, and confirm their love to him. 2. Neither could Paul rebuke the Corinthians because God's hand had not miraculously taken him away, or because the Magistrate had not taken away his life, which was not the Corinthians fault. 3. I am persuaded, to be cast out of the Synagogue, was not to be put to death, because joh. 9 the blind man after he is cast out of the Synagogue, Jesus meeteth with him in the Temple, and he believeth and confesseth Christ, and Christ joh. 16. distingusheth them clearly, They shall kill you, and beside that, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. They shall excommunicate you. But though it were granted, t●●t the Jewish Church used not excommunication had they no Ecclesiastical censures before for that? I think it doth not follow; for the excluding of the Leper, that these who touched the dead were legally unclean, and might not eat the Passover, were censures, but they were not civil; Ergo, Ecclesiastical they must be, as to be excluded from the Lords Supper is a mere. Ecclesiastical censure in the Christian Church. Also if Pastors and Preachers be complained of, that not only at jerusalem, but every where, through all the land, they strengthened not the ●● eased sheep; They did not bind up the broken, nor bring again the loosed, but with force and cruclty they did govern, Ezek. 34. 4. and if every where, the Prophets did prophecy falsely, and the Priests bare rule by their means, and the people lov●d to have it so. Jer. 5. 31. Then in Synagogues there was Church-government, as at ●erusalem; for where the Lord rebuketh any sin, he doth recommend the contrary duty. Now Prophets and Priests are rebuked, tor their ruling with force and rigour every where, and not at jerusalem only, for that they were not compassionate to carry the Lambs in their bosom, as jesus Christ doth, Esai. 40. 11. their ill government every where must be condemned. 3. Luk. 4. 16. Christ, as his custom was, went into the Synagogue on the Sabbath day; Paul and Barnabas were requested, to exhort in the Synagogue, as the order was, that Prophets at the direction of the Rulers of the Synagogue, if they had any word of exhortation, they should speak, and consequently their order was that every one should not speak; Ergo, they had customs and orders of Church-Discipline to the which Christ and his Apostles did submit themselves, And to tie all Church-government to the Temple of jerusalem were to say, God had ordained his people elsewhere to worship him publicly, but without any order, and that Christ and his Apostles subjected themselves to an unjust order. I further argue thus. Those Churches be of the same nature, frame, and essential Constiutions, which agree in the same essentials, and differ only in accidents; but such are the Church of the jews, and the Christian Churches; Ergo, what is the frame and essential consti●●tion of the one Church, must be the frame and essential constitution of the other. Ergo, etc. the major is of undeniable certainty. I prove the assumption. These which have the same Faith, and the same external profession of Faith, these have the same frame and essential constitution, but they and we be such Churches; for we have the same covenant of grace, Jer. 31. 31. Jer. 32. 39 40. Heb 8. 8, 9 10. Therefore that same faith, differing only in accidents: their faith did look to Christ to be incarnate, and our faith to that same very God now manifested in the flesh. Heb. 13. 8. They were saved by faith, as we are, Heb. 11. Acts 10. 42, 43. Acts. 11. 16, 17, 18. and consequently, what visible profession of faith doth constitute the one visible Church, doth constitute the other. I know, Papists, Arminians, Socinians do make the Doctrine, and Seals of the jewish and Christian Church much different, but against the truth of Scripture. The only answer that can be made to this, must be, that though the Church of the Jews wanted not congregations, as our Christian Churches have, yet were they a national Church of another essential, visible frame, then are the Christian Churches, because they had positive, typical, and ceremonial and carnal commandments that they should have one high Priest for the whole national Church, the Christian Churches have not for that, one visible Monarch and Pope; they had an Altar, Sacrifices, and divers pollutions ceremonial, which made persons uncapable of the Passover; but we have no such legal uncleanness, which can make us uncapable of the Seals of the New Testament: and therefore it was not lawful to separate from the Jewish Church, in which did sit a typical High Priest, where were Sacrifices, that did adumbrate the Sacrifice of our great High Priest, & c. not withstanding of scandalous persons in that Church; because there was but one visible Church, out of which was to come the Redeemer Christ, according to the flesh, but the Christian Churches under the New Testament, be of another frame, Christ not being tied to one Nation, or place, or Congregation: therefore if any one Congregation want the Ordinances of Christ, we may separate therefrom, to another Mount Zion, seeing there be so many Mount Zions no●. Answ. 1. If the Church of the jews was a visible Church in its essential constitution different from our visible Churches, because they were under the Religions tie of so me carnal, ceremonial, and typical mandates and Ordinances, that we are not under, then do I infer, that the Tribe of Levy was not one visible Church, in the essential frame, with the rest of the Tribes, which is absurd, for that Tribe containing the Priests and Levites, was under the obligatory tie of many typical Commandments proper and peculiar to them only, as to offer Sacrifices, to wash themselves, when they were to officiate, to wear linen Ephods, to bear the Ark of the Covenant, now it was sin for any that were not of the Sons of Aaron, or of another Tribe to perform these duties; yet, I hope, they made but one national Church with the rest of the Tribes. Secondly, I infer, that the Christian Church that now is, cannot be of that same essential frame with the Apostolic Churches, because the Apostolic Church, so long as the Jewish ceremonies were indifferent, (in statu 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉) and mortal, but not mortiferae, deadly, was to practise these ceremonies, in the case of scandal, 1 Cor. 10. 31, 32, 33. and yet the Christian Church that now is, can in no sort practise these ceremonies: yea, I infer that the Eldership of a Congregation doth not make one Church of one and the same essential frame and constitution with the people, because the Elders be under an obligatory tie to some positive Divine Commandments, such as are to administer the Seals, Baptism and the Lords Supper, and yet the multitude of Believeres, in that same congregation, are under no such tie; and certainly if to be under ceremonial and typical ordinances doth institute the whole Jewish Church in another essential frame different from the Christian Churches, reason would say that then, if the members of one Church be under Divine positive commandments, which doth in no sort tie other members of the same Church, that then there be divers memberships of different essential frames in one and the same Church, which to me is monstrous; for then, because a command is given to Abraham to offer his son Isaak to God, and no such command is given to Sarah, in that case Abraham and Sarah shall not be members of one and the same visible Church. But the truth is, different positive commandments of ceremonial and typical ordinances put ●o new essential frame of a visible Church upon the Jewish Church, which is not on the Christian Churches. These were only accidental characters and temporary cognisances to distinguish the Jewish and Christian Churches, while as both agree in one and the same moral constitution of visible Churches: for first, both had the same faith, one Lord, one covenant, one jesus Christ, the same seals of the covenant in substance, both were visibly to profess the same Religion; the differences of externals made not them and us different visible Churches, nor can our brethren say, they made different bodies of Christ, different Spouses, different royal Generations, as concerning Church-frame. Yet are we not tied to their high Priest, to their Altars, Sacrifices, Holy days, Sabbaths, new Moons, etc. no more than any one private Christian in such a congregation, or a believing woman is tied to preach and baptise; and yet her pastor Archippus, in that congregation, is tied both to preach and baptise. Secondly, the Jews were to separate from B thaven, and so are we. Thirdly, they were not to join with Idolaters in Idol-worship, neither are we. 2 Whereas it is said that it was not lawful to separate from the Jewish Church, because in it did sit the typical high Priest, and the Messiah was to be borne in it, and because they were the only Church on earth; but now there be many particular Churches. All this is a deception, a non causi● pro causâ, for separation from that Church was not forbidden for any typical or ceremonial reason, not a shadow of reason can be given from the Word of God for this: Because there can be no ceremonial argument why there should be communion betwixt light and darkness, or any concord betwixt Christ and Belial, or any comparting bètwixt the believer and the infidel, or any agreement of the temple of God with idols, nor any reason typical why Gods people should go to Gilgal, and to Bethaven, or to be joined with idols, or why a David should sit with vain persons, or go in to dissemblers, or why he should offer the drink offerings of these who hasten after a strange god, or take up their names in his mouth. This is then an unwritten tradition; yea, if Dagon had been brought into the Temple, as the Assyrian altar of Damascus was set up in the holy place, the people ●ught to have separated from Temple and Sacrifices both, so lo●g as that abomination should stand in the holy place: Nor can it be proved, that communicating with the Church of Israel as a member thereof; was typical and necessary to make up visible membership, as ceremonial holiness is; for to adhere to the Church in a sound worship, though the fellow-worshippers be scandalous, is a moral duty commanded in the second Commandment; as to forsake Church-assemblies is a moral breach of that Commandment, and forbidden to Christians, Hebr. 10. 25. who are under no Law of Ceremonies. And it is an untruth, that those who were legally clean, and not ceremonially polluted, were members of the Jewish visible Church, though otherwise they were most flagitious: For to God they were no more his visible Israel then Sodom and Gomorrah, Isaiah 1. 10. or the children of Ethiopia, Amos 9 7. and are condemned of God, as sinning against the profession of their visible incorporation in the Israel of God, Jerem. 7. 4, 5, 6, 7. But shall we name and repute them brethren, whom in conscience we know to be as ignorant and void of grace, as any Pagan? I answer, That if they profess the truth, though they walk inordinately, yea, and were excommunicated, Paul willeth us to admonish th●m as brethren, 2 Thes. 3. 15. and calleth all the visible Church of Corinth (for he writeth to good and bad) amongst whom were many partakers of the table of devils, pleaders with their brethren before heathen, deniers of the resurrection, yea those to whom the Gospel was hidden, 2 Cor. 4. brethren and Saints by calling. But (say our brethren) to be cast out of the jewish Church, was to be cast out of the Commonwealth; as to be a member of the Church, and to be a member of the state is all one, because the state of the Jews and the Church of the Jews was all one; and none is said to be cut off from the people, but he was put to death. Answ. Surely Esay 66. vers. 5. these who are cast out by their brethren, and excommunicated, are not put to death, but men, who after they be cast out, live till God comfort them and shame their enemies; but he shall appear for your joy. Secondly, that the state of God's Israel and the Church be all one, because the Jewish policy was ruled by the judicial Law, and the judicial Law was no less divine than the Ceremonial Law, is to me a wonder: For I conceive that they do differ formally, though those same men, who were members of the state, were members also of the Church; but, as I conceive, not in one and the same formal reason; first, because I conceive that the State, by order of nature, is before the Church, for when the Church was in a family state, God called Abraham's family, and by calling made it a Church. Secondly, the Kingdom of Israel and the house of Israel in covenant with God, as Zion and Jerusalem are thus differenced, That to be a State was common to the Nation of the Jews with other Nations, and is but a favour of providence; but to be a Church is a favour of grace, and implieth the Lords calling and choosing that Nation to be his own people of his free grace, Deut. 7. 7. and the Lords gracious revealing of his Testimonies to Jacob and Israel, whereas he did not so to every Nation and State, Psal. 147. 19 20. but say they, The very state of the jews was divine, and ruled by a divine and supernatural policy, as the judicial Law demonstrateth to us. But I answer, Now you speak not of the state of the Jews, common with them to all States and Nations; but you speak of such a state and policy which I grant was Divine, but yet different from the Church; because the Church, as the Church is ruled by the moral Law and the Commandments of both Tables, and also by the Ceremonial Law; but the Jewish State or Common wealth, as such was ruled by the judicial Law only, which respecteth only the second Table, and matters of mercy and justice, and not piety and matters of Religion which concern the first Table; and this is a vast difference betwixt the state of the Jews and the Church. Thirdly, when Israel rejected Samuel, and would have a King, conform to other Nations, they sought that the state and form of governmnent of the Commonwealth should be changed, and affected conformity with the Nations in their state, by introducing a Monarchy, whereas they were ruled by Judges before; but in so doing they changed not the frame of the Church, nor the worship of God, for they kept the Priesthood, the whole Moral, Ceremonial, and Judicial Law entire, and their profession therein; Ergo, they did nothing which can formally destroy the being of a visible Church, but they did much change the face of the state and civil policy, in that they refused God to reign over them, and so his care in raising up Judges and Saviour's out of any Tribe, and brought the government to a Monarchy, where the Crown by divine right was annexed to the tribe of Judah. Fourthly, it was possible that the State should remain entire, if they had a lawful King sitting upon David's throne, and were ruled according to the Judicial Law: but if they should remain without a Priest and a Law, and follow after Baal, and change and alter God's worship, as the ten Tribes did, and the Kingdom of judah in the end did, they should so mar and hurt the being and integrity of a visible Church, as the Lord should say, She is not my wife, Hosea 2. 2. neither am I her husband; and yet they might remain in that case a free Monarchy, and have a State and policy in some better frame; though I grant, de facto, these two Twins, State and Church, civil Policy and Religion, did die and live, were sick and diseased, vigorous and healthy together; yet doth this More, that State and Church are different. And further, if that Nation had made welcome, and with humble obedience believed in, and received the Messiah, and reform all, according as Christ taught them, they should have been a glorious Church, and the beloved Spouse of Christ; but their receiving and embracing the Messiah should not presently have cured their enthralled state, seeing now the Sceptre was departed from judah, and a stranger and heathen was their King; nor was it necessary that that Saviour, whose Kingdom is not of this world, John 18. 36. and came to bestow a spiritual redemption, and not to re-establish a flourishing earthly Monarchy, and came to lose the works of the Devil, Heb. 2: 14. and not to spoil Cesar of an earthly Crown, should also make the Jews a flourishing State, and a free and vigorous Monarchy again: Ergo, it is most clear that State and Church are two divers things, if the one may be restored, and not the other. Fifthly, the King, as the King was the head of the Commonwealth, and might not meddle with the Priest's office, or perform any Ecclesiastical acts, and therefore was Uzzah smitten of the Lord with leprosy, because he would burn incense, which belonged to the Priests only. And the Priest in offering sacrifices for his own sins, and the sins of the people did represent the Church, not the State. And the things of the Lord; to wit, Church-matters, and the matters of the King, which were civil matters of State, are clearly distinguished, 2 Chron. 19 11. which evidenceth to us, that the Church and State in Israel were two incorporations formally distinguished. And I see not, but those who do confound them, may also say, That the Christian State and the Christian Church be all one State, and that the government of the one must be the government of the other; which were a confusion of the two Kingdoms. It is true, God hath not prescribed judicials to the Christian State, as he did to the Jewish State, because shadows are now gone, when the body Christ is come; but God's determination of what is morally lawful in civil Laws, is as particular to us as to them; and the Jewish judicials did no more make the Jewish State the Jewish Church, than it made Aaron to be Moses. and the Priest to be the King and civil Judge: yea, and by as good reason Moses as a Judge should be a prophet, and Aaron as a Prophet should be a Judge; and Aaron as a Priest might put a malefactor to death, and Moses as a Judge should proph●sie, and as a Prophet should put to death a malefactor; all which wanteth all reason and sense: and by that same reason the State and Commonwealth of the Jews, as a Commonwealth, should offer sacrifices and prophecy; and the Church of the Jews, as a Church, should denounce war and punish malefactors, which are things I cannot conceive. Our brethren, in their answer to the eleventh question, teach, That those who are sui juris, as masters of families, are to separate To the eleventh question, pag. 32, 33. Church-government discussed. from these Parish-assemblies, where they must live without any lawful Ordinance of Christ; and to remain there they hold it unlawful for these reasons: First, we are commanded to observe all whatsoever Christ hath commanded, Matth. 28. 10. Secondly, the Spouse seeketh Christ, and rests not till she find him in the fullest manner, Cant. 1. 7, 8. and 3. 1, 2, 3. David lamented when he wanted the full fruition of God's Ordinances, Psal. 63. and 42. and 84. although he enjoyed Abiathar the high Priest, and the Ephod with him, and Gad the Prophet, 1 Sam. 23. 6, 9 10. 1 Sam. 22. 8. So did Ezra 8. 15, 16. yea and Christ, though he had no need of Sacraments, yet for example, would be baptised, keep the Passeover, etc. Thirdly, no ordinances of Christ may be spared, all are profitable. Fourthly, he is a proud man, and knoweth not his own heart in any measure, who thinketh he may be well without any Ordinance of Christ. Fifthly say they, it is not enough the people may be without sin, if they want any ordinances through the fault of the superiors, for that is not their fault who want them, but the superiors sinful neglect, as appeareeth by the practice of the Apostles, Acts 4. 19 and 5. 29. For if they had neglected Church-ordinances lb. pag. 35, 36. till the Magistrates, who were enemies to the Gospel, had commanded them, it had been their grievous sin. For if superiors neglect to provide bodily food, we do not think that any man's conscience would be so scrupulous, but he would think it lawful by all good means to provide in such a case for himself, rather than to sit still, and to say, If I perish for hunger, it is the sin of those who have authority over me, and they must answer for it. Now any ordinance of Christ is as necessary for the good of the soul, as food is necessary for temporal life. Ans. 1. I see not how all these Arguments, taken from moral commandments, do not oblige son as well as father, servant as master, all are Christ's free men, son or servant, so as they are to obey what over Christ commandeth, Matth. 18. 10. and with the Spouse to seek Christ in the fullest measure, and in all his ordinances, and son and servant are to know their own heart, so as they have need of all Christ's ordinances; and are no more to remain in a congregation where their souls are samished, because fathers and masters neglect to remove to other congregations, where their souls may be fed in the fullest measure; then the Apostles Acts 4. 29. and 5. 29 were to preach no more in the Name of jesus, because the Rulers commanded them to preach no more in his Name. And therefore, with reverence of our godly brethren, I think this distinction of persons free, and sui juris, and of sons and servants, not to be allowed in this point. 2. It is one thing to remove from one congregation to another, and another thing to separate from it, as from a false constitute Church, and to renounce all communion therewith, as if it were the Synagogue of Satan and Antichrist, as the Separatists do, who refuse to hear any Minister ordained by a Prelate: now except these arguments conclude separation in this latter sense, as I think they can never come up halfeway to such a conclusion, I see not what they prove, nor do they answer the question, etc. concerning standing in Parish-assemblies in Old England, and if it be lawful to continue in them. Which question must be expounded by the foregoing, Quest. 10. If you hold that any of our Parishional assemblies are true visible Churches, etc. Hence the 11. Question goeth thus in its genuine sense; are we not then to separate from them, as from false Churches? Now neither the Spouse, Cant. 1. 7. c. 3. 1. 2, 3. nor David, Psal. 63. Psal. 42. Psal. 84 nor Ezra. 8. 15, 16. nor Christ, in these cases when they sought Christ in all his Ordinances in the fullest measure, were members of false Churches: nor did they seek to Separate from the Church of Israel, nor is it Christ's command, Mat. 28. 10. to separate from these Churches, and to renounce all communion with them, because these who sat in Moses Chair, did neglect many Ordinances of Christ, for when they gave the false meaning of the Law, they stole away the Law, and so a principal ordinance of God, and yet Christ (I believe) forbade separation, when he commanded that they should hear them, Mat. 23. 3. Nor do I judge that because there was but one visible Church, in Israel, and therefore it was not lawful to separate therefrom, and because under the New Testament there be many visible Churches, and many Mount Zions, therefore this abundance doth make separation from a true Church, lawful to us, which was unlawful to the people of the Jews. For separation lawful, is, to not partake of other men's sins, not to converse bretherly with known flagitious Men, not to touch any unclean thing, not to have communion with Infidels, Idols, Belial, etc. Now this is a moral duty obliging jews and Gentiles, and of perpetual equity; and to adhere to, and worship God aright, in a true Church is also a moral branch of the second command, and a seeking of Christ, and his presence and face in his own Ordinances, and what was simply moral, and perpetually lawful, the contrary thereof cannot be made lawful, by reason of the multitude of Congregations. 4. The most that these arguments of our Brethren do prove, is but that it is lawful to go, and dwell in a Congregation where Christ is worshipped in all his Ordinances, rather than to remain in that Congregation, where he is not worshipped in all his Ordinances; and where the Church censures are neglected, which to us is no separation from the visible Church, but a removal from one part of the visible Church to another, as he separateth not out of the house, who removeth from the Gallery, to remain and lie and eat in the Chamber of the same House, because the Gallery is cold and smoky, and the Chamber not so, for he hath not made a vow never to set his foot in the Gallery. But to our Brethren to separate or remove from a Congregation, is to be dismembered from the only visible Church on Earth, for to them there is not any visible Church on Earth, except a congregation. And our brethren's mind in all these arguments, is to prove, that not only it is unlawful to stand in the Parish assemblies of Old England, because of Popish ceremonies (and we teach separation from these ceremonies to be lawful, but not from the Churches) but also that it is necessary, to adjoin to independent Congregations, as to the only true visible Churches on Earth, and to none others, except we would sin against the second Commandment, which I conceive is proved by not one of these arguments. And to them all I answer, by a denial of the connex proposition. As this, These who must do all which Christ commandeth, and seek Christ in all his necessary Ordinances, though superiors will not do their duties, these must separate from true visible Churches, where all Christ's Ordinances are not, and join to independent Congregations, as to the only true visible Churches on Earth. This proposition I deny. 5. If our brethren's argument hold sure that we are to separate from a Church, in which we want some Ordinances of Christ, through the Officers negligence, because (say they a Church government discussed, answer to quest. 11. pag. 33. ) The Spouse of Christ will not rest, seeking Her beloved until she find him, in the fullest manner, Cant. 1. v. 7. & 3. 1, 2. then the Spouse Cant. 1. 7. & 3. 1, 2. is separating from one Church to another, which the Text will not bear. 2. I would have our reverend Brethren to see and consider, if this argument doth not prove (if it be nervose and concludent) that one is to separate from a Congregation, where are all the Ordinances of Christ, as in New England now they are, so being, he go from a less powerful and less spiritual Ministry, to another Congregation, where incomparably there is a more powerful and more spiritual Ministry, for in so doing the separater should only not rest as the Spouse doth, Cant. 1. & 3. seeking his beloved until he find Him, in the fullest manner. For he is to be found in a fuller manner, under a more powerful Ministry, and in a less full manner under a less powerful Ministry. But this separation I think our Brethren would not allow, being contrary to our brethren's Church-Oath which tieth the professor to that congregation, whereof he is a sworn member to remain there. 6. The design and scope of our reverend brethren's argument, is that professors ought to separat from Churches where presbyterial government is, because in these Churches, Professors, as they conceive, do not enjoy all the Ordinances of God. Because they enjoy not the society of a Church consisting of only visible Saints, and they enjoy not the free use of the censure of excommunication in such a manner as in their own Churches, and because in them the Seals are often administered by those Pastors who are Pastors of another Congregation than their own, and for other causes also, which we think is not sound doctrine. But we think it no small prejudice (say our Brethren) to the liberty given to a congregation, in these words, Mat. 18. Tell the Church, if he hear not the Church, etc. That the power of excommunication should be taken from them, and given to a Presbyterian, or national Church, and so your Churches want some ordinances of Christ. Answ. far be it from us, to take from the Churches of Christ any power which Christ hath given to them, for we teach that Christ hath given to a single congregation, Mat. 18. a power of excommunication, but how? 1. He hath given to a congregation that's alone in an Island separated from all other visible Churches a power which they may exercise there alone, and. 2. He hath given that power to a congregation When Christ layeth 〈◊〉 a warrant for the power of binding and looseing given to all Churches, his wisdom hath fitted the rule, so that it agree to all churches, to a congregation that's alone in a remote Island, to a Church presbyterial, or national, as Parker doth apply it to prove the power of Synods. consociated with other sister congregations, which they may use but not independently, to the prejudice of the power that Christ hath given to other Churches, for seeing all sister Churches are in danger to be infected with the leaven of a contumacious member, no less than that single congreation, whereof the contumacious resideth as a member, Christ's wisdom, who careth for the whole, no less then for the part, cannot have denied a power conjunct with that congregation to save themselves from contag●ons, to all the consociated Churches, for if they be under the same danger of contagion with the one single congregation, they must be armed and furnished, by Christ jesus, with the same power against the same ill: so the power of excommunication is given to the congregation, but not to the congregation alone, but to all the congregations adjacent, so when I say, the God of Nature hath given to the hands a power to defend the body, I say true, and if evil do invade the body, nature doth tell it, and warn the hands to defend the body, but it followeth not from this, etc. if the power of defending the body be given by the God of Nature, to the hands therefore that same power of defence is not given to the feet also, to the eye to foresee the ill, to reason, to the will to command that locomotive power, that is in all the members, to defend the body, and if nature give to the Feet a power to defend the body, by fleeing, it is not consequence to infer, O then hath nature denied that power to the hands by fight, so when Christ giveth to the congregation (which in consociated Churches to us is but a part, a member, a fellowsister of many consociated congregations) he giveth also that same power of excommunicating one common enemy, to all the consociated Churches, without any prejudice to the power given to that congregation whereof he is a member, who is to be excommunicated, because a power is common to many members, it is not taken away from any one member. When a national Church doth excommunicate a man who hath killed his Father, and is, in an eminent manner, a public stumbling ●lock to all the congregations of a whole Nation, it is presumed that the single congregation, whereof this parricide is a member, doth also join with the national Church and put in exercise its own power of excommunication, with the national Church, and therefore that congregation is not spoilt of its power, by the national Church, which joineth with the national Church in the use of that power. And this I think may be thus demonstrated, The power of excommunication is given by Christ, to a congregation not upon a positive ground, because it is a visible instituted Church, or as it is a congregation, but this power is given to it upon this formal ground and reason, because a congregation is a number of sinful men, who may be scandalised and infected with the company of a scandalous person; this is so clear that if a congregation were a company of Angels, which cannot be infected, no such power should be given to them, even as there was no need that Christ as a member of the Church either of jews, or Christians should have a moral power of avoiding the company of Publicans and sinners, because he might possibly convert them, but they could no ways pervert, or infect him, with their scandalous and wicked conversation, therefore is this power given to a congregation, as they are men, who though frailty of nature, may be If a little body of a congregation, in a remote Isle, have power from Christ, to cut off a rotten member, l●st it infect the whole body; shall we doubt but our wise lawgiver hath given that same power to a greater body of many visible congregations, which is under the danger of the same contagious infection? leavened with the bad conversation of the scandalous, who are to be excommunicated, as is clear, 1 Cor. 5. 6. Your glorying is not good, know ye not that a little leaven leauneth the whole lump? therefore are we to withdraw ourselves from Drunkards, Fornicators, Extortioners, Idolaters, and are not to eat and drink with them, v. 10. And from these who walk inordinately, and are disobedient, 1 Thess. 3. 12, 13, 14. And from Heretics after they be admonished, lest we be infected with their company, just as nature hath given hands to a man, to descend himself from injuries and violence, and horns to oxen to hold off violence, so hath Christ given the power of excommunication to his Church, as spiritual armour to ward off, and defend the contagion of wicked fellowship. Now this reduplication of frail men which may be leavened, agreeth to all men of many consociated congregations, who are in danger to be infected with the scandalous behaviour of one member of a single congregation, and agreeth not to a congregation as such, therefore this power of excommunication must be given to many confociated congregations, for the Lord jesus his salve, must be as large, as the wound, and his mean must be proportioned to his end. 2. The power of Church ejection and Church separation of scandalous persons must be given to those to whom the power of Church communion, and Church confirming of Christian love to a penitent excommunicate is given, for contraries are in the same subject, as hot and cold, seeing and blindness, but the power of Church-communio at the same Lord's table, and of mutual rebuking and exhorting, and receiving to grace after repentance, agreeth to members of many consociated Churches, as is clear, Col. 3. 16. Heb. 10. 23. 2 Cor. 2 6, 7, and not to one congregation only; Ergo, etc. the assumption is clear, for except we deny communion of Churches, in all God's Ordinances, we must grant the truth of it. 2. We say that of our Saviour's (tell the Church) is not to be drawn to such a narrow circle, as to a Parishional Church only, the Apostle practice is against this, for when Paul and Bannabas had no small dissension with the jews of a particular Church, they determined that Paul and Barnabas, and certain others of them, should go and tell the Apostles, Elders and whole Church national or Oecumemek, Acts 15. 2. v. 22. and complain of those who taught that, they behoved to be circumcised, Acts 15. 1. and that greater Church v. 22. 23. commanded by their ecclesiastic authority the contrary, and those who may lay on burdens of commandments as this greather Church doth expressly, v. 28. Acts 16. v. 4. ch. 2. v. 25. they may censure and excommunicate the disobeyers. And Acts 6. 1. the Greek Church complained, Acts 6. of the Hebrews, to a greater and superior Church of Apostles, and a multitude made up of both these v. 2. and 5. and they redresed the wrongs done to the Grecian Widows by appointing Deacons; also though there was no complaint, Acts 1. Yet was there a defect in the Church, by the death of Judas, and a catholic visible Church did meet, and help the defect, by choosing Mathias: it is true the ordination of Mathias the Apostle, was extraordinary, as is clear by Gods immediate directing of the lots, yet this was ordinary and perpetual, that the election of Mathias was by the common suffrages of the whole Church, Acts 1. 26. and if we suppose that the Church had been ignorant of that defect, any one member knowing the defect, was to tell that catholic Church, whom it concerned to choose a catholic Officer; we think Antioch had power great enough intensively to determine the controversy, Acts 15. but it followeth not that the catholic Church v. 22. (let me term it so) had not more power extensively to determine that same controversy, in behalf of both Antioch, and of all the particular Churches: subordinate powers are not contrary powers. CHAP. 5. SECT. 5. PROP. 3. QUEST. 6. Manuscript. ALL who would be saved must be added to the Church, as Acts 2. 47. The way of the Church of Christ in. N. Eng. If God offer opportunity, Gen. 17. 7. Because every Christian standeth in need of all the Ordinances of Christ, for his Spiritual edification in holy fellowship with Christ Jesus. Answer: for clearing of this we are to discuss this question. Whether all, and every true believer must join himself to a particular visible congregation, which hath independently power of the keys within itself, God offering opportunity, if he would be saved? 1 Dist. There is a necessity of joining ourselves to a visible Church, but it is not necessitas medii, but necessitas praecepti, it is not such a necessity, as all are damned who are not within some visible Church, for Augustine is approved in this, there be many Wolves within the Church, and many sheep without; but if God offer opportunity, all are obliged by God his Command●ment of confessing Christ before men, to join themselves to the true visible Church. 2. Dist. There is a fellowship with the visible Church internal, of hidden believers, in the Romish Babel this is sufficient for salvation, necessitate medii, but though they want opportunity to join themselves to the Reformed visible Churches, yet do they sin in the want of a profession of the truth and in not witnessing against the Antichrist, which is answerable to an adjoining of themselves to a visible Church, And so those who do not profess the Faith of the true visible Church, God offering opportunity, deny Christ before men, and this external fellowship is necessary to all, necessitate praecepti, though our Lord graciously pardon this as an infirmity in his own, who for fear of cruel persecution, often dare 〈◊〉 confess Christ. 3. Dist. The question is not whether all aught to join themselves 〈…〉 ●isible Church, God offering occasion, but, if all aught by Christ's command, to join themselves to the Churches independent of their visible Congregations, if they would be saved? our Brethren 〈…〉 it, we deny it. 1. Concl. An adjoining to a visible Church either formally to be a member thereof, or materially, confessing the Faith of the true visible Church, God offering occasion, is necessary to all. 1. Because we are to be ready to give a confession of the ●●pe that is in us, to every one who asketh, 1 Pet. 3. 15. 2 Because he who denieth Christ before men, him also will Christ deny before 〈◊〉 Father, and before the holy Angels, Mat. 10. 33. 3 Yet if some die without the Church, having Faith in Christ, and want opportunity to confess him before men, as repenting in the h●u●e of death, their salvation is sure, and they are within the invisible Church: so is that to be taken, extra Ecclesiam nulla salus, none can be saved who are every way without the Church, both visible and invisible; as all perished who were not in Ncahs' Ark. 2. Concl. When God offereth opportunity, all are obliged to join themselves to a true visible Church. 1. Because God hath promised his presence to the Churches as his Son walketh in the midst of the golden candlesticks, Rev. 2. 2. 2 Because Faith cometh by hearing a sent Preacher, Rom. 10. 4. 3 Separation from the true visible Church is condemned, Heb. 10. 24. jud. v. 19 1 john. 2. 19 4. Good men esteem it a rich favour of God to lay hold on the skirt of a Jew, Zech. 8. 23. and to have any communion, even as a door keeper in God's House, and have desired it exceedingly and complained of the want thereof, Psal. 84. 10. v. 1, 2. Psal. 27. 4, Psal. 42. 1, 2, 3, 4. Psal. 63. v. 1, 2. 3. Concl. Our brethren, with reverence of their godliness and learning, err, who hold all to be obliged, as they would be saved, to join to such a visible congregation of independent jurisdiction, as they conceive to be the only true Church visible instituted by Christ. That this is their mind is clear by the first proposition of this Manuscript, and by their answer a The 12. question propounded by the godly and learned Brethren of old England. to the 12 Question where they say, that all not within their visible congregation as fixed sworn members thereof, are without the true Church, in the Apostles meaning, 1 Cor. 5. 12. what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within? which is a most violent torturing of the word. For, 1. without are dogs, Rev. 22. so our brethren expound the one place by the other, than all not fixed members of the congregational Church (as they conceive it) of Corinth, are dogs, what? was there not a Church of Saints on earth at this time, but in one independent congregation of Corinth? and were all the rest Dogs and Sorcerers? 2. If judging here especially is the censure of Excommunication used according unto Christ's institution, that the spirit may be saved in the Day of the Lord, and so to be used only toward regenerated persons, than Paul was to intend the salvation of none by Excommunication, but these who are members of one single congregation, who are within this visible house of Christ, than all the rest are without the house and so in the state of damnation. 3. These who are without here are in a worse case, then if they were judged by the Church, that their spirit may be saved. So they are left, v. 13. to a severe judgement, even to the immediate judgement of God, as a Cajetan. comment. ib. Cajetan doth well observe; for, saith b Eras. Sarcer. in loc. Erasmus Sarcerius, Deus publica & occulta sceler a non sinet impunita, and c Bullinger oomment. Bullinger maketh (as it is clear) an answer to an objection, shall these who are without, even the wicked Gentiles commit all wickedness without punishment? The Apostle answereth, that, (saith he) God shall judge them, Non impune in vitiorum lacunis se provolvent prophani, sed destinato tempore commeritas dabunt Deo ultori paenas. And d Paraeus v. 13. Paraeus, num impune ibunt eorum scelera? ●mo Judicem Deum invenient. 4. These who are within here, are these who are of Christ's family, saith e P. Martyr. ib. P. Martyr, and opposite to Gentiles and infidels saith f Paraeus in ●s. 12. Paraeus, for all men are divided into two ranks, some domestics, and within the Church, and to be judged by the Church; and some strangers, without the covenant, not in Christ, neither in profession, nor truth, as Gentiles, who are left to the severity of God's judgement, but our brethren's Text shall bear that Paul divideth mankind into three rank. 1. Some within, as true members of the Church. 2. Some without as infidels, and some without as not members of a fixed congregation, now Believers without, and not members of a fixed congregation, are not left to the severity of the immediate judgement of God, as these who are without here, because they are to be rebuked, yea nor was the excommunicated man, after he should be cast out, left to the immediate judgement of God: but he was, 1. To remain under the medicine of excommunication, and daily to be judged, and eschewed as a Heathen, that his spirit may be saved. 2. He was to be rebuked as a brother 2 Tress. 3. 15. 3. Paul saying what have I to do to judge these that are without, God judgeth them, he meaneth as much, as he will not acknowledge them, as any ways belonging to Christ; but the believers of approved piety, because they are not members of a fixed congregation, are not thus cast off of Paul, he became all things to all men, that he might gain some, and would never cast off Believers, and say what have I to do with you? In a word; by those who are without are meant Gentiles, as a Ambrosus. Ambrose b Oecumenius in loc. Oecumenius c Theophylact. Theophilact. etc. d Calvin. Calvin e Pet. Martyr. comment. Martyr f Bullinger. Bullinger g Pareus Paraeus h Beza. Beza, i Pelican. Pelican. k Pomeran con. Pomeranus l Meyer. Meyer m Sarcerius come. Sarcerius n Marloratus. Marloratus o Paraphraste●. Paraphras. p Haymo come. the Papists, Haymo q Aquinas. Aquinas and r Eras●●● Paraph. with them Erasmus, and all who ever commented on this place. Lastly, our Brethren expound these, who are within, to be the Church of Corinth, Saints by calling, and Saints in Christ Jesus, these to whom he prayeth grace and peace unto, and for whom he thanketh God for the grace given to them by jesus Christ, 1 Cor. 1. 2. 3. Now these thus within must be regenerated, and opposed to all not within: this way, but without, that is who are not Saints by calling, not in Christ jesus, then by these who are without, cannot be understood, all not fixed members of one visible Congregation, who yet are by true faith in Christ jesus; and our Brethren must mean, that Paul, if he were living, would take no care to judge, and censure us, who believe in Christ, and are members of provincial and national Churches, and are not members of such an independent Congregation, as they conceive to be the only instituted visible Church of the New Testament. But if they all not without the state of salvation who are not members of such an independent flock. 1. All the Churches of Corinth, Galatia, Ephesus, Th●ssalonica, Philippi, Rome, the seven Churches of Asia, who were not such independent Churches must be in the state of damnation. 2. All are here obliged, who look for salvation, by jesus Christ, to join themselves to this visible independent Church; then all who are not members of such a Church are in the state of damnation, if (say our brethren) they know this to be the only true Church, and join not to it. O but ignorance cannot save men from damnation, for all are obliged to know this so necessary a mean of salvation, where only are the meane● of salvation, for than it should excuse Scribes and Pharisees, that they believed not in Christ, for they knew him not, and if they had known, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory. 1 Cor. 2. 9, 10. Now we judge this to be the revived error of-the Donatists, whose mind was as a Augustine saith, haeres. 69. Eccl. siam Christi de ●oto te●rarum or●e 〈◊〉, squeeze Africa Dona●i part remansyle. Augustine saith, that the Church of Christ was only in that part of Africa, where Donatus was, and Augustine writing to Vincentius b Augustin. Epist. 48 ad Uincent in illa verba, indica, ubi pascis in meridie Viden. solam & solam illi in Meridie, vos in occidents? saith Morton apolog p. 1. c. 31. answereth Bellarmine de Ecclesia mil●● l. 3. c. 13. objecteth the same, as Morton answereth Bellarmine, and the same say Papists with Donatists, that out of the Church of Rome there is no salvation. And c Field of the Church 3. book. 28. ch. Field answereth well, ye are to be charged with donatism, who deny all Christian societies in the World, ●to be where the Pope's feet are not kissed, to pertain to the true Church of God, and so cast into Hell all the Churches of Aethiopia, Armenia, Syri●, Graecia, Russia, and so did Optatus (saith d Morton grand imposture ch. 14. 2. challenge p. 342. Morton, Answer, Donatists you will have the Church only to be where you art, but in Dacia, Misi●, Thracia, Achaia, etc. where you are not, you will not have it to be, nor will you have it to be in Graecia, Cappadocia, Egypt, etc. Where you are not, and in innumerable Istes and Provinces. See how Gerardus refuteth this e Gerard. to. 5. de Ecclesia c. 4. p. 231. 232. nu. 35. and certainly, if this be the only true visible Christian Church, to which all who look for salvation by Christ Jesus, must join themselves, there is not in the Christian World, a true visible Church but with you. 3. I● all upon hazard of losing salvation, must join to such a Church, having power of jurisdiction independently within itself, then must all separate from all the reformed Churches, where there be provincial and national Churches, now this is also the error of the Donatists and Anabaptists, against which read what a Pa●k●r ●n the Cross parag. 2. c. 9 p. 113. d● c. 14. learned Parker saith and reverend b Brightman in Apocal. 3. Brightman, and c Cartwright repl.. 1. p. 175. Cartwright, but of this hereafter. 4. The principal reason given by the Author, is, The Lord added to the Church Acts 2. such as should be saved, this is not in the independent visible Congregation, as is proved elsewhere. A second reason he giveth, because every Christian standeth in need of the Ordinances of Christ, for his spiritual edification, in holy fellowship, with Christ jesus, or else Christ ordained them in vain, therefore all who would be saved, must join to a visible independent congregation; hence no Church hath title and due right to the Word and Sacraments, but members of such a congregation: this is the reason why men of approved piety are denied the Seals of the covenant, and their children excluded from Baptism and themselves debarred from the Lords Supper, because they are not members of your congregation, and members they cannot be, because they find no warrant from God's Word, to swear your Church-covenant, and to your Church-government, which is so far against the Word of God: the Seals of the covenant belong to all professing Believers, as God's Word saith, Acts 10. 47. Acts 8. 37. Acts 16. 31, 32, 33. 1 Cor. 11. 28. Whether Non distinguendum, ubi lex, ubi legislator non distinguit. he be a member of a particular independent Church, or not, God the Lawgiver maketh not this exception, neither should man do it. Propos. 3. All are entered by covenant into a Church-state, Manuscript ch. 1. sect. 3. or into a membership of a visible Church. Answ. Here are we to encounter with a matter much pressed by our reverend Brethren, called a Church covenant. A Treatise came unto my hand in a Manuscript of this Subject; In their Apology, and in their answer to the questions propounded by the Brethren of Old England this is much pressed. I will first explain the Church-covenant according to our reverend brethren's mind. 2: Prove there is no such thing in God's Word. 3. Answer their Arguments taken out of the Old Testament. 4. Answer their Arguments from the New Testament, both in this Treatise here in this Chapter, and hereafter; and also their arguments in all their Treatises. Hence for the first two, I begin with this first question. Whether or not all are to he Inchurched or entered Members of a visible Church by an explicit, and vocal or professed Covenant? Our brethren's mind is first to be cleared. 2. The state of the question to be explained. 3. The truth to be confirmed. In the answers to the questions a Quest. 8. sent to New England they require of all persons come to age, before they be received members of the Church: 1. A public vocal declaration of the manner and soundness of their conversion, and that either in continued speech (saith b Apology of the Churches of New England, c. 3. the Apology) or in answer to questions propounded by the Elders. 2. They require a public profession of their faith, concerning the articles of their religion, the foresaid way also. 3. An express vocal covenanting by oath, to walk in that faith; and to submit (saith the Author) c The way of the Church of Christ in New England, ch. 1. sect. 1. prop. 3. themselves to God, and one to another, in his fear; and to walk in a professed subjection to all his holy Ordinances, cleaving one to another, as fellow members of the same body in brotherly love and holy watchfulness unto mutual edification in Christ jesus. 4. And a covenanting, not to depart from the said Church, without the consent thereof. This Church-covenant (saith the Apology) d Apology for the Church of N. E. ch. 3. is the essential or formal cause of a visible Church, as a flock of Saints is the material cause, and so necessarily of the being of a Church, that without it none can claim Church-communion; and therefore it is that whereby a Church is constituted in its integrity, that whereby a fallen Church is again restored; and that, which being taken away, the Church is dissolved, and ceaseth to be a Church; and it is that whereby Ministers have power over the people, and people interest in their Ministers, and one member hath interest and powerover another fellow-member. The manner of entering in Church-state is this: 1. A number of Christians, with a gifted or experienced Elder meet often together (saith this e Way of the Church, chap. 1. sect. 2. Author) about the things of God, and perform some duties of prayer, and spiritual conference together, till a sufficient company of them be well satisfied, in the spiritual good estate one of another, and so have approved themselves to one another's consciences, in the sight of God, as living stones, fit to be said on the Lords spiritual Temple. 2. They having acquainted the Christian Magistrate, and nearest adjoining Churches, of their purpose of entering into Church-fellowship convene in a day kept with fasting and praying, and preaching, one b●ing chosen with common consent of the whole, in name of the rest, standeth up, and propoundeth the covenant, in the foresaid four Articles above named. 3. All the rest declare their joint consent in this covenant, either by silence, or word of mouth, or writing, 4. The brethren of other Churches, some specials, in name of the rest, reach out to them the right hand of fellowship, exhorting them to stand steadfast in the Lord. Which done, prayers made to God for pardon and acceptance of the people, a Psalm is sung. But when a Church is to be gathered together of Infidels, they must be first converted believers, and so fit materials for Church fellowship, before any of those things can be done by them. 5. Baptism maketh none members of the visible Church. 6. A Church fallen, cannot be accepted of God to Church fellowship, till they renew their Church covenant. Thus shortly for their mind about the gathering of a visible Church. Let these distinctions be considered for the right stating of the question. 1. Distinct. There is a covenant of free grace, betwixt God and sinners, founded upon the surety Christ jesus; laid hold on by us, when we believe in Christ, but a Church Covenant differenced from this is in question, & sub judice lis est. 2. Distinct. There is a covenant of baptism, made by all, and a covenant virtual and implicit renewed, when we are to receive the Lords Supper, but an explicit positive professed Church covenant, by oath inchurching a person, or a society, to a State-church is now questioned. 3. Distinct. An explicit vocal Covenant whereby we bind ourselves to the first three Articles in a tacit way, by entering in a new relation to such a Pastor, and to such a Flock, we deny not, as if the thing were unlawful▪ for we may swear to perform God's commandments, observing all things requisite in a lawful oath. 2. But that such a covenant is required by divine institution, as the essential form of a Church and Church-membership, as though without this none were entered members of the visible Churches of the Apostles, nor can now be entered in Church-state, nor can have right unto the seals of the covenant, we utterly deny. 4. Distinct. We grant a covenant in Baptism which is the seal of our entry unto the visible Church. 2. That it is requisite that such Heretics, Papists, Infidels, as be received as members of our visible Church, (from which Papists have fallen, having received baptism from us) do openly profess subjection to God, and his Church, in all the Ordinances of God. And that Infidels give a confession of their faith, before they be baptised. 3. Nor deny we that at the election of a Pastor, the Pastor and people tie themselves, by reciprocation of oaths, to each other, the one to fulfil faithfully the ministry that he hath received of the Lord; the other to submit to his ministry in the Lord, but these reciprocal oaths, make neither of them members of a visible Church, for they were that before these oaths were taken. 5. Distinct. Any professor removing from one congregation to another, and so coming under a new relation to such a Church, or such a Ministry, is in a tacit and virtual covenant to discharge himself in all the duties of a member of that Congregation, but this is nothing for a Church-covenant; for when six are converted in the congregation whereof I am a member, or an excommunicated person heartily and unfainely repenteth, there ariseth a new relation betwixt those converts and the Church of God; and a tie and obligation of duties to those persons greater than was before, as being now members of one mystical and invisible body. Yet cur brethren cannot say, there is requisite, that the Church renew their Church-covenant towards such, seeing the use of the Covenant renewed is to restore a fallen Church, or to make a non-Church to be a Church; and if those six be converted by my knowledge, there resulteth thence an obligation of a virtual and tacit covenant betwixt them and me; but there is no need of an explicit and vocal covenant, to tie us to duties that we are now obliged to in a stricter manner than we were before; for when one is taken to be a steward in a great family, there may be a sort of Covenant betwixt that servant and the Lord of the house, and there resulteth from his office and charge a tie and obligation, not only to the head of the family, but also to the children and fellow-servants of the house; but there is no need of an express, vocal, and professed covenant betwixt the new steward and the children and servants; yea and strangers also, to whom he owes some acts of steward-duties, though there do result a virtual covenant. far less is there a necessity of an express and vocal covenant before that steward can have claim to the keys, or be received in office. So when one entereth into covenant with God, and by faith layeth hold on the covenant, there resulteth from that act of taking the Lord to be his God, a covenant-obligation to do duty to all men, as the covenant of God doth oblige him; yea, and to do works of mercy to his beast (for a good man will have mercy on the life of his beast) and he is obliged to a duty by that covenant with God to his children, which are not yet borne, to servants who are not yet his servants, but shall hereafter be his servants, to these who are not yet converted to Christ, now it is true a virtual and tacit covenant, resulteth toward all these, even toward the beast, the children not yet borne, etc. when the person first by faith entereth in covenant with God; but none, master of common sense and judgement will say there is required a vocal and explicit, and professed covenant, betwixt such an one entered in covenant with God, and his beast, and his children not yet borne, or that the foresaid tacit and virtual covenant, which doth but result from the man his covenanting with God is either the cause, or essence, or formal reason, whereby he is made a formal contracter and covenanter with God. So, though when I enter a member of such a congregation, there ariseth thence an obligation of duty, or a tacit covenant, tying me in duties to all members present, or which shall be members of that congregation, though they should come from India; yet in reason it cannot be said, that there is required an express vocal covenant betwixt me and all, who shall be fellow-members of this congregation; and far less that such a covenant doth make me a member of that congregation, yea because I am already a member of that congregation; thence ariseth a tacit covenant toward such and such duties and persons. 6. I understand not how our brethren do keep Christian and religious communion, with many professors of approved piety, and that in private conference, praying together, and publicly praising together, and yet deny to have any Church-communion with such approved professors, in partaking with them the seals of the covenant, and censures of the Church, I doubt how they can comfort the feeble minded, and not also warn and rebuke them, which are called acts of Church-censure. Then the question is not, if there be a tacit and virtual covenant when persons become members of such a visible congregation. 2. Nor do we question whether such a Church-covenant may be lawfully sworn. We think it may, though to swear the last article not to remove from such a congregation without their consent, I think not lawful, nor is my habitation in such a place a matter of Church-discipline. 3. But the The state of the question concerning the Church covenant. question is, if such a Church-covenant, by Divine or Apostolic warrant, not only be lawful, but the necessary and Apostolic means, yea and the essential form of a visible Church; so as without it persons are not members of one visible Church, and want all right and title to a Church-membership, to the seals of grace, and censures of the Church. Our brethren affirm, we deny. Concl. The former considerations being clear, we hold that such a Church-covenant is a conceit destitute of all authority of God's Word, Old or New Testament, and therefore to be rejected as a way of men's devising, 1. Argum. All will-worship laying a band on the Conscience, where God hath laid none, is damnable; but to tie the oath of God to one particular duty rather than another, so as you cannot, without such an oath, enter into such a state, nor have title and right to the seals of grace and Gods Ordinances, is will-worship, and that by virtue of a divine Law, and is a binding of the Conscience where God hath not bound it. The major is undeniable. Papists as a Alphonsus à Castr. tit. vota. Alphonsus à Castro, and b Bellarm. de eccles. milit. lib. 4. cap. 9 ●andem heresin. Lampetianorum Lutherus tenet. Bellarmin● lay upon us, that which was the error of Lampetians, that we condemn all sort of vowe●, ●● snares to the Consciences of men. But Bellarmine c Bellarm, de Monarch. l. 2. c. 15. saith, that Luther and Ca●●in acknowledge, We think vows of things commanded of God lawful; the truth is, we teach it to be will-worship to a person to vow single life, where God hath not given the gift of continency, because men bind with an oath that which God hath not bound us unto by a command. So d Origen. Nazianzen. Ambrose. Augustinus exponit i●lud, Matth. 19 11. Origen, Gregory, Nazianzen, Ambrose, Augustine say, Those which want the gift of continency cannot live without wives, and so should not burn. See how e Bellarm. de Monach, lib. 2. cap. 31. Bellarmine and f Maldonat. in Math. 19 Maldonat contending for will-worship, prescribe the contrary. I prove the assumption; for a Minister to swear the oath of fidelity to his flock, is lawful; but to tie an oath so to his Ministry, as to say the Apostles teach, he cannot be a minister who sweareth not that oath, is to lay a bond on the Conscience, where God hath laid none. That a father swear to perform the duties of a father, a master the duties of a master towards his servant, is lawful; but to lay a bond on him, that he is in Conscience, and before God no father, no master, except he swear to perform those duties, is to lay a bond on the Conscience where God hath laid none. So to swear subjection to such a Ministry and visible Church, is lawful; but to tie by an Apostolic Law and practice the oath of God so to such duties, as to make this Church-oath the essential form of such membership, so as you cannot enter into Church-state, nor have right to the Seals of the Covenant without such an oath, is to bind where God hath not bound; for there is no Law of God, putting upon any Church-oath such a state, as that it is the essential form of Church-membership, without the which a man is no Church-member, and the Church visible, not swearing this oath is no Church. 3 That way are members to be inchurched, and to enter into a Church-fellowship, which way members were entered in the Apostolic Church. But members were not entered into the Apostolic Church by such a Covenant, but only they believed, professed belief, and were baptised; when the incestuous person is reentered (it is said) only, 2 Cor. 2. he was grieved, and testified it, and they did forgive him, and confirm their love to him, 7, 8. there is here no Church-Covenant; and Samaria 8. 12. received the Word gladly, believed, and was baptised; when Saul is converted Acts 9 Simon Magus baptised, Acts 8. Cornelius and his house baptised, Acts 20. the Church of Ephe●us planted, Acts 19 of Corinth, Acts 18. 8. of Berea, Acts 17. 10. Philippi Acts 16. Th●ssalonica, Acts 17. of Rome, Acts 28. We hear no expressed vocal Covenant. So Acts 2. three thousand were added to the visible Church; now they were not gathered nor inchurched as you gather: First, they did not meet often together for prayer and spiritual conference, while they were satisfied in Conscience of the good estate one of another, and approved to one another's Consciences in the sight of God, as living stones fit to be laid in the Lords spiritual Temple, as you require; a The way of the Churches, Chap. Sect. 2. because frequent meeting and satisfaction in Conscience of the regeneration one of another could not be performed by three thousand, all converted and added to the Church in one day; for before they were non-Converts, and at one Sermon were pricked in heart that they had slain the Lord of glory, Acts 2. 37. 42. and the same day there were added to them three thousand souls. Our brethren say, It was about the P●ntecost, when the day was now the longest, and so they might make short confessions of the soundness of their conversation before the Apostles, who had such discerning spirits. Answ. Truly it is a most weak and reasonless conjecture for all the three thousand behoved to be miraculonsly quick of discerning; for they could not swear mutually one to another those Church-duties, except they had been satisfied in Conscience of the regeneration of one another. Surely such a miracle of three thousand extraordinarily gifted with the spirit of discerning would not have been concealed, though it be sure, Ananias and Saphira, who deceived the Apostles, were in this number. Secondly, how could they all celebrate a day of fasting and prayer, and from the third hour, which is our ninth hour, dupatch the confessions and evidences of the sound work of conversion of thirty hundred, all baptised and added to the Church? Capiat qui volet; because this place is used to prove a Church-covenant, I will here once for all deliver it out of our brethren's hands: The Author of the Church-covenant b Discourse of Church-covenant, fol. 22, 23. saith, There was hazard of excommunication, John 9 22. and persecution. Acts 5. 3. and therefore the very profession of Christ in such peri●●us times was a sufficient note of discerning, to such discerning spirits as the Apostles. Answ. If you mean miraculous power of discerning in the Apostles, that was not put forth in this company, where were such hypocrites as Ananias and Saphira. Secondly, this miraculous discerning behoved to be in all the three thousand, for the satisfaction of their Consciences, of the good estate spiritual of all of them. And if it be miraculous (as it must be, if done in the space of six hours, as it was done the same day that they heard Peter, vers. 41.) than our brethren cannot allege it for ordinary inchurching of members as they do. Secondly, if it be an ordinary spirit of discerning, then at one act of profession are members to be received, and so often meeting for the satisfaction of all their Consciences is not requisite. Thirdly, if profession for fear of persecution be an infallible sign, than those who are chased out of England by Prelates, and come to New England, to seek the Gospel in purity, should be received to the Church, whereas you hold them out of your societies many years. Fourthly, suffering for a while for the truth is not much, judas, Alexander, Demas, did that for a while. The c Apolog. chap. 6. Apology and discourse of the Church-covenant saith, d Discourse of the Church-covenant, fol. 24. These converts professed their glad receiving of the Word, vers. 37 38. in saving themselves from that untoward generation, else they had not been admitted to baptism. But all this made them not members of the Church for they might havereturned, notwithstanding of this, to Pontus, Asia, Cappadocia, etc. but they continued steadfastly 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, in the doctrine of the Apostles. Secondly, they continued in fellowship, this is Church-fellowship; for we cannot say, That it was exercise of Doctrine and Sacraments, and confound this fellowship with doctrine, no more than we can confound doctrine and sacraments, which are distinguished in the Text, and therefore it is a fellowship of holy Church-state, and so noteth; 1. A combination in Church-state. 2. In gifts inward to edification, and outward in relief of the poor by worldly goods. Answ. 1. They could not continue steadfast in the Apostles doctrine and fellowship before they were added to the Church, for steadfastness in Doctrine, and saving themselves from the froward generation, could not be but habitual holiness, not perfected in six hours. Now that same day, vers. 41. in the which they gladly heard the Word, they were both baptised and added to the Church; and therefore their steadfast continuing in Church-state, can no ways make them members in Church-state. Secondly, though they should have returned to Pontus and Asia, etc. they returned added to the Church; Church-state is no prison-state, to tie men to such a congregation locally, as you make it. Thirdly, there is no word of a Church-covenant, except when they were baptised they made it, and that is no Church-covenant, and that should not be omitted, seeing it conduceth so much, first, to the being of the visible Church, in the which we must serve God acceptably; Secondly, and is of such consequence to the end, that the holy things of God be not profaned, as you say. Thirdly, that the Seals of the Covenant be not made signs of falsehood. Fourthly, we would not be stricter than God, who received upon six hours' profession three thousand to Church state. Fifthly, the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 fellowship is no fellowship of Church-order, which made them members of the visible Church, because the first day that they heard Peter they were added to the Church, and being added they continued in this fellowship, and in use of the Word, Sacraments, and Prayer; as a reasonable soul is that which makes a man discourse, and discoursing is not the cause of a reasonable soul e Beza annot. marg. Act. 2. 43. Beza calleth it fellowship in Christian charity to the poor. And f Syrus interp. ibid. the Syrian interpreter, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. g Arab. interp. ibid. The Arablan interpreter saith the same. h Latin. interp. ibid. The ancient Latin interpreter, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. Fourthly, if Baptism be the Seal of our entry into the Church, as 1 Cor. 12. 13. as Circumcision was the Seal of the members of the Jews visible Church, than such a Covenant is not a formal reason of our Church-membership, but the former is true, as I shall prove hereafter; Ergo, so is the latter. The Proposition standeth, because all the baptised are members of the visible Church before they can swear this Covenant, even when they are Infants. 5. Argu. This Church-covenant is either all one with the Covenant of grace, or it is a Covenant divers from the Covenant of grace; but neither ways can it be the essential form of a visible Church; Ergo, First, the Covenant of grace cannot be the form of a visible Church, because then all baptised, and all beleevess should be in Covenant with God, as Church members of a visible Church, which our brethren deny. If it be a Covenant divers from it, it must be of another nature, and lay another obligatory tie, then either the Covenant of works, or the Covenant of grace, and so must tie us to other duties then either the Law or Gospel require of us; and so is beside that Gospel which Paul taught and maketh the teacher, though an Angel i Gal. 1. 8. 2 Ep. Joh. 10. from Heaven, accursed, and not to be received. The k Apology of the Church of new England. Apology answering this, saith, First, We call it a Church-covenant, to distinguish it from civil Covenants, and also from the Covenant of grace; for the Eunuch and godly strangers, Isaiah 56. 3. were in the covenant of grace by faith, and yet complained that they were separated from the Church, and not in Covenant with God's visible Church. Answ. 1. No doubt an excommunicated person, whose spirit is saved in the day of Christ, may be in the Covenant of grace, and yet cut off from the visible Church for enormous scandals; but this is no ground to make your Church-covenant different from the Covenant of grace. A believer in the Covenant of grace may not do a duty to father, brother, or master; but it is a weak consequence, that therefore there is a Covenant-oath betwixt brother and brother, son and father, servant and master, which is commanded by a divine Law of perpetual equity under both old and new Testament, as you make this Covenant of the Church to be, which persons must swear, ere they can come under these relations of brother, son, and servant. The Covenant of grace, and the whole Evangell, teach us to confess Christ before men, and to walk before God, and be perfect, and so that we should join ourselves to the true visible Church. But none can in right reason conclude, that it is a divine Law that necessitateth me to swear another Covenant than the Covenant of grace, in relation to those particular duties, or to swear over again the Covenant of grace, in relation to the duties that I owe to the visible Church, else I am not a member thereof. And that same Covenant in relation to my father, brother, and master, else I cannot be a son, brother, or servant; this were to multiply Covenants according to the multitude of duties that I am obliged unto, and that by a divine commandment. The word of God l Act. 20. 28. 〈◊〉. 13. 17. 1 Tim. 5. 17. 1 Pet. 5. ●, 4. layeth a tie on Pastors to feed the flock, and the flock to submit, in the Lord to the Pastors. But God hath not, by a new commandment, laid a new tie and obligation, that Timothy shall not be made a Pastor of a Church at Ephesus, and a member thereof, nor the Church at Ephesus constituted in a Church-state, having right to all the holy things of God, while, first, they be all persuaded of one another's regeneration; secondly, while all swore those duties in a Church-oath; thirdly, and all swear that they shall not separate from Church followship, but by mutual consent. Hear a reply again to this of the m Apol. ●●. 8 Apology; such promises as leave a man in an absolute estate as he was before, and engage only his act, not his person, these lay no forcing band on any man, but as every man is tied to keep his lawful promise, are tied: But yet such promises or covenants as are made according to the Ordinances of God, and do put upon men a relative estate, they put on them a forcing band to perform such duties, such as are the promises of marriage betwixt man and wife, master and servant, magistrate and subject, minister and people, brother and brother in Church-state; these put on men a divine tie, and bind by a divine Ordinance to perform such duties. But these Scriptures make not these relations, these places make not every man who can teach, a Pastor to us, except we call him to be our Pastor; indeed if we call him, we engage ourselves in subjection to him: you might as well say, It is not the covenanting of a wife to her husband, or the subject to the magistrate, that giveth the husband power over his wife, and the magistrate power over his subject, but the word of God that giveth power to both, and yet you know well the husband cannot call such an one his wife, but by covenant made in marriage. Answ. This is all which with most colour of reason can be said. But these places of Scripture are not brought to prove the Pastors calling to the people, or their relative case of subjection to him, but only they prove, that the covenant of grace and whole Gospel layeth a tie of many duties upon us, which obligeth us, without coming under the tie of an express, vocal, and public oath, necessitating us by a divine Law, because in this that I profess the faith of Christ, and am baptised, I am a member of the visible Church, and have right to all the holy things and seals of grace, without such an oath, because the covenant of grace tieth me to a●joyne myself to some particular congregation, and a called Pastor who hath gi●●●, and a calling from the Church, is a member of the visible Church, before he be called to be your Pastor, though he be a member of no particular congregation; for you lay down as an undeniable principle, and the basis of your whole doctrine of independent government; that there are no visible Churches in the world but a congregation meeting in one place to worship God, which I have demonstrated to be most false: for if my hand be visible, my whole body is visible, though with one act of the eye it cannot be seen; if a part of a meadow be visible, all the meadow, thought ten miles in breadth and length, is visible: so, though a congregation only may be actually seen, when it is convened within the sour Angles of a material house, yet all the congregations on earth make one visible Church, and have some visible and audible acts of external government cummon to all; as that all pray, praise, fast, mourn, rejoice, one with another; and are to rebuke, exhort, comfort one another, and to censure one another, so far as is possible, and of right and by Law meet in one council, and so by Christ's institution are that way visible; that a single cong egation is visible which meeteth in one house, though many be absent de facto, through sickness callings, imprisonment, and some through sinful neglect; and therefore you do not prove, that we are made members of the visible Church, having right to all the holy things of God, by a Church-oath or covenant as you speak; neither do we deny but when one doth enter a member to such a congregation under the ministry of A. B. but he cometh under a ●ew relative state, by an implicit and virtual covenant, to submit to his ministry, yea and A. B. cometh under that same relative state of Pastoral feeding of such an one. But you do not say, that A. B. entereth by a vocal Church-covenant, in a membership of Church order, and that by a commanded covenant of perpetual equity, laying a new forcing band upon both the person and the acts of A. B. just as the husband and the wife come under a marriage covenant. So C. D. sometime excommunicated, now repenteth, and is received as a gained brother, in the bosom of the Church; all the members of the Church come by that under a new relation to C. D. as to a repenting brother, and they are to love, reverence, exhort, rebuke, comfort him, by virtue of the covenant of grace, but (I conceive) not by a new Church covenant entering them as in a Church membership, and Church order towards him. So a new particular Church is erected, and now counted in amongst the number of the visible Churches; all the sister Churches are to discharge themselves in the duties of embracing, loving, exhorting, edifying, rebuking, comforting this sister Church new elected. But I think our brethren will not say, That all the sister Churches are to make a new express vocal Church covenant with this sister Church, and such a Church covenant as maketh them all visible Churches, which have right to all the holy things of God, in and with this new sister Church; it is the covenant of grace once laid hold on by all these sister Churches, which tieth them to all Christian duties, both one toward another, and also toward all Churches to come in. I think there is no necessity of an express covenant of marriage betwixt this new Church, and all the former sister Churches, as there is a solemn marriage oath betwixt the Husband and the Wife, and a solemn covenant betwixt the supreme Magistrate and the King and his Subjects, when the King is crowned; all we say is this, if for new relations God laid a bond and compelling tie of conscience, and that of perpetual equity, whereby we are entered in every new relative state, beside the bond that Law and Gospel lay on us, to do duties to all men both in Church and Commonwealth, then when a person is converted unto Christ, and another made a Lawyer, and another a Pastor, another a Physician, another a Magistrate, another a learned Philosopher and Precedent of an Academy, another a skilled Schoolmaster, and so come under new relations many and divers in the Church and State, I should not be obliged to love, honour, and reverence them all by virtue of the fifth Commandment; but I behoved by virtue of a particular Covenant (I know not how to name it) to come under some new relative marriage toward all these, else I could not perform duties of love and reverence to them; and though there be a convenant tacit betwixt a new member of a congregation, and A. B. the Pastor, and they come under a new relation, covenant ways (which I grant) is not the point in question, but this new covenant is that which by necessity of a divine Commandment of perpetual equity, maketh the now adjoyner a member of the visible Church, and giveth him right and claim to the seals of the covenant, so as without this covenant he is without, and not to be judged by the Church, but left to the judgement of God, as 1 Cor. 5. 12, 13. one who is without. Thirdly, the * Apology for the Churches of New England, c. 5. Apology saith, and a Discouse of a Church covenant, fo. 2. Author of the Church covenant. The covenant of grace is done in private in a man's closet, betwixt the Lord and himself, the other in some public assembly. 2. The covenant of grace is of one christian in particular, the other of a company jointly, some call the one personal, the other general. Answ. Though the covenant of grace may be laid hold on in a closet or private chamber, yet the principal party contracter is God on the one part; and on the other not a single man, but Christ, b Gal. 3. 16. Psal. 2. 8, 9 Esau 53. 10. and all his seed, c Heb. 8. 8. yea the Catholic church, d jer. 31. 31. ch. 32. v, 38, 39, 40, 41. I●rem. 50. 5. all the House of Israel; But our brethren's mind is, that conversion of souls to Christ is not a Church act, nor a Pastoral act, but a work of charity, performed by private christians; yet by the Pastoral pains of Peter, three thousand, Act. 2. were converted; and this is a depressing of public ministry, and an exalting of popular prophesying, which is the only public and ordinary mean blessed of God, for conversion. 2. By this all the covenants sworn in Israel and judah were not a swearing of the covenant of grace but of a Church covenant, which we must refute hereafter. 3. We desire an instance or practice of receiving any into the public assembly, by this Church covenant; public receiving by baptism we grant in Cornelius, Act. 10. the Eunuch, Act. 8. Lydia, and her house, Act. 16. the jailer, Act. 16. but we never read of Saul's Church●covenant, and Church confession, whereby he was publicly received into Church membership, nor of such private trial of Church members and therefore we think it to be a devise of men. 6. Arg. If this Church-covenant be the essence and form of a visible Church, which differenceth betwixt the visible and invisible Church, than there have been no visible Churches since the Apostles days, nor are there any in the Christian World, this day, save only in New England and some few other places, for remove the form and essence of a thing, and you remove the thing itself: now if this be true, and if Ministers have Ministerial or pastoral power over people, and the people no relation unto them as to Pastors, except they mutually enter into this Church-covenant, then are they no Pastors to the people at all, and so all Baptised in the reformed Churches, where this covenant was not, are as Pagans and Infidels, and all their Baptism no Baptism, and all their Church Acts no Church Acts, and they all are to be Rebaptised. The Author of the Church-covenant a Discourse of the Church-covenant fol. 26, 27, 28. saith, there is a real, implicit, and substantial coming together, and a substantial professing of faith and agreement, which may preserve the essence of the Church in England, and other places, though ●hers be not so express and formal a covenanting, as need were; The eternity of the covenant of God is such, that it is not the interposition of many corruptions, that may arise in after time, that can disannul the same, except they wilfully break the covenant, and reject the offer of the Gospel, which we persuade ourselves England is not come unto, and so the covenant remaineth which preserveth the essence of the Churches to this day; and he giveth this answer from learned Parker b Parker de pol. Eccles. l. 3. c. 16. p. 166. 167. and he allegeth Fox c Fox acts & monum. 137. who out of Gilda, saith England received the Gospel in Tiberi●● his time, and Joseph of Arimathea was sent from France to England by Philip the Apostle an. ●2. Answ. I deny not but Tertullian, and Nicephorus both, say, the Gospel than came to the wildest in Britain, and no doubt be ●●ved to come to Scotland, when Simon Zelotes cam● to Britain; but so did the Gospel come to Rome, Philippi, Corinth, will i● follow that the covenant is there yet? And 1. If the not wilful rejecting of the Gospel save the essenc● of a visible Church in England (which charity we command in our Brethren) Rome may have share of the charity also, and there may be a true visible Church there, as yet: and we then wronged them in separation from them, Because God's people in Babel, did never wilfully reject the covenant. 2. Our brethren profess a Apology c. 8. they cannot receive into their Church, the godly persecuted and banished out of Old England, by Prelates for the truth, unless (saith he) they be pleased to take hold of our Church-covenant. Now not to admit into your Churches, such as cannot swear your Church covenant, in all one as to acknowledge such not a true Church, and to separate from them, and so the want of an explicit and formal Church-covenanting, to you maketh professors no Church-visible, and unworthy of the seals of grace; but reverend Parker b P●●ker de polit. 3. c. 6. saith, that there is such a profession of the covenant in England, sic ut secessionem facere saluâ conscientiâ nullus possit, that no man with a safe conscience can separat therefrom. 3. The ignorants and simple ones amongst the Papists have not rejected the Gospel obstinately, in respect it was never revealed to them, yet the simple ignorance of points principally fundamental maketh them a non-Church, and therefore the want of your Church-covenant must un-Church all the reformed Churches on Earth: It is not much that this Author saith, the primitive Church never did receive children to the communion, nor any till they made a confession of their Faith. What then? a confession of their Faith and an evidence of their knowledge, is not your Chuoch-covenant for by your Church-covenant the parties to be received in the Church must give testimony of their conversion to the satisfaction of the consciences of all your Church; The old confirmation of children was not such a thing. 2. The trial of the knowledge of such, as were of old not yet admitted to the Lords Supper, is not an inchurching of them, because, if ●ny not that way tried in the ancient Church, did fall into scan●alcus sins, they were, being come to years liable to the censures of the Church, which said, certainly the ancients acknowledged them to be members of that visible Church, but you say expressly, they are without, and you have not to do to judge them, 1 Cor. 5. 12. And let the author see for this a Concl. Laodi●. c. 7. the counsel of Laodicea, b Gregorius de consecrat. c. 8. c. ab antiqua. Gregorius c Leo Epist. 77. Leo, d Augustin. in Joan. tract. 6. de trinit. li. 15. c. 1. de Baptismo l. 3. c. 5. Augustine e Tertulli●n de resurrell. carnis. Tertullian, f Cyprian. epist 73. add jubajan. Cyprian, g Ambros. de Sacram l 3. c. 2. Ambrose, h Concil. Elibert. c. 38. & 77. the council of Elibert, i Perkins. problem p. 184. Perkins, k Martin. Bucer in leiturg. Angl. ch. 482. Martin Bucer l Chemnitii examen concili Trident. l. 2. p. 71. Chemnitius m Pet. Martyr loc. come. class. 3. the confirm. Peter Martyr, who all teach that confirmation was nothing less than your Church-covenant. 2. That it had never that meaning to make persons formll members of the visible Church. 3. That that was sufficiently done in Baptism. 4. That comfimation was never the essential form of a visible Church, but rather the repetition of Baptism; so n Whitgift p. 59 4. Whitgift, (a man much for confirmation,) confirmatio apud nos usurpatur, ut pueri proprio ore, proprioque consensu, pactum quod in Baptismo inibant coram Ecclesiâ confirment, o Pareus comment: in Heb. 6. Pareus saith they were in the Church before, Sed impositione manuum in Ecclesiam adultorum recipie bantur. p Beza annot. in Job. 6. Beza saith the same q Calvin comment in Heb. 6. Calvin, liberi infidelium ab utero adoptati, & jure promissionis pertinebant ad corpus Ecclesiae, r Bullinger comment. Heb. 6 Bullinger acknowledging that in Baptism infants were received into the Church, saith, Pastorum manus illis impone bantur, quorum fidei committebatur Ecclesiarum cura. 7. Argum. A multitude of unwarrantable ways partly goeth before, partly conveyeth this Church-covenant, As. 1. It is a dream that all are converted by the means of private Christians, without the Ministry of sent Pastors, by hearing of whom Faith cometh, all are made materials and convertes in private without Pastors; judge if this be Christ's order and way. 2. How it is possible a Church shall be gathered amongst Infidels? this way Infidels cannot convert Infidels, and Pastors as Pastors cannot now be sent, by our brethren's Doctrine, for Pastors are not Pastors but in relation to a particular congregation, therefore Pastors as Pastors cannot be sent to Indians. 3. They must be assured in conscience, at least satisfied in every one another's salvation, and sound conversion: were the Apostles satisfied anent the conversion of Anainas, Saphira, Simon Magus, Alexander, Hymeneus, Philetus, Demas and others? 4. By what warrant of the word are private Christians, not in office, made the ordinary and only converters of Souls to Christ? conversion cometh then ordinarily and solely by unsent Preachers, and private persons Ministry. 5. What warrant have the sister Churches, of the word, to give the right hand of fellowship to a new erected Church? for, to give the hand of fellowship is an authoritative and pastoral act, as Gal. 2 9 When james, Cephas, and john perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave unto me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship, that is, saith Pareus, a Pareus, in collei●●m apostolorum nos receperunt, dextrit nobiscum junctis, quod intimae conjunctionis nostrae signum fuit & obsignatio. they received us to the college of the Apostles, so Bullinger b Bullinger ib. and c Beza, arnot. Beza, now this is to receive them in amongst the number of Churches, as Pareus, and members of the catholic Church, but Churches being all independent, and of a like authority, the Sister Churches having no power over this new erected Church, what authority hath Sister Churches, to acknowledge them as Sister Churches? For 1. They cannot be upon two or three hours' ●●ght of them, hearing none of them speak, satisfied in their consciences of their Regeneration. 2. By no authority can they receive them as members of the catholic Church, for this receiving it a Church-act and they have no Church-power over them. 3. What a meeting is this of divers Churches for the receiving of a new Sister Church? It is a Church (I believe) meeting together, and yet it is not a congregation, and it is an ordinary visible Church, for at the admitting of all converts to the Church-order, this meeting must be: surely here our brethren acknowledge that there is a Church, in the New Testament made up of many congregations, which hath power to receive in whole Churches, and members of Churches unto a Church-fellowship; this is a visible provincial, or national Church, which they other ways deny. 6. We see no warrant, why one not yet a Pastor or Elder should take on him to speak to a congregation, though they all conse●t that he speak, exhort and pray, we desire a warrant from God's Word, that such a thing should be; here is preaching, and Church-preaching, Church-praying and praising, and yet there is no Pastor nor man called to office, we see not how this will abide the measure of the Golden-neede, especially in a constituted Church▪ 7. We desire to see such a Church-action, Acts 2. Where three thousand were added in one day to the Church. 8. If it be enough that all be silent, and testify their consent to the Church covenant by silence, how is the Church-Magistrate and these of other Churches satisfied in conscience of the conversion of all? for all consent to this, the Magistrate may be a King, and he cannot acknowledge these as a Church, whose faces he never saw before. 9 They swear to be good stewards of the manifold graces of God, and so to public prophesying, for converting souls, here be men sworn in a Churchway to feed the flock, and yet they are not Pastor●. 10. Here are Church-acts and the power of the Keys exercised in preaching, and praying, and discipline, and yet no stewards nor Officers of the house who have received the keys to feed. Quest. 2. Whether it can be proved from the Old Testament, that Christ's visible Church was gathered, and being fallen, restored to a visible Church-state, by this Church-covenant. Our Reverend brethren contend that the Church was ever gathered by this Church-covenant. The Author a Way of the Churches of Christ in. N. Eng. ch. 1. sect. 1. Prop. 3. saith, that the Lord received Abraham and his children into the Church, by a covenant, Gen. 17. 7. Then when they violated the covenant, he renewed this covenant, Exod. 19 1. 5. whence they were called the Church in the Wilderness, Acts 7. 38. Answ. 1. The covenant, Gen. 17. 7. is not a Church-covenant such as you dream off. 1. That covenant is the covenant of grace, made with all the people of the Jews, yea, with children of eight days old, v. 7. I will establish my covenant betwixt me and thee, and thy seed after thee in their generations, for an everlasting covenant, to be a God, to thee, and to thy seed. Your covenant is not made with infants, for to you infants are not members of the Church visible, none are in your Church-covenant, but believers, of whose sound conversion you are satisfied in conscience: 2. This is the everlasting covenant made with Job, Melchisedech and many Believers; not in Church-state, as you grant, your Church-covenant made with a visible Church, is no everlasting covenant. 3. Infant's can make no confession ere they be receied in a visible Church. 4. If by this covenant Abraham's house was made a visible Church and all his children circumcised, than every family in the New Testament professing the Faith and covenant made with Abraham, and baptised as Abraham's children were circumcised, are the visible Church, and the place is for us. 5. Abraham and his house before this, when they were first called out of Egypt, were a Church of called ones professing the Faith of the Messiah to come a Esai. 51. 1. 2, 3. Josh. 24. 2, 3, 4. 6. The Lord had a Church visible, before the renewing of the covenant at Mount Sinai, Exod. 19 even in Egypt and when he brought them first out of that Land of bondage. Jerem. 31. 31, 32. 33 and before this they did celebrate the Passover, the very night, that they came out of Egypt, Exod. 12. and therefore it is false, that for that covenant renewed, Exod. 19 They are called the church in the Wilderness, all the forty years that they were in the Wilderness, they were the Church in the Wilderness, The apology b Apology ch. 3. c. 4. 5. and c Discourse of the Church covenant. fol. 5. 6. Author of the Church-covenant and Manuscript d The way of the Church ib. allege Deut. 29. 10. Ye stand all of you this day before the Lord, & c. v. 12. that thou mightest enter in covenant with the Lord thy God, and the Oath which the Lord thy God maketh with thee, v. 13. That He may establish thee to day a people to Himself. Hence they argue, That which maketh a society a people to God, to serve Him in all His Ordinances, that is that whereby a society is constituted in a Church-state; but by a covenant, God maketh a society a people to God, to serve Him in all his Ordinances; Ergo. Now that those were a true visible Church they prove, though the word say they had eyes and see not, etc. yet they were not in a carnal estate, but only dull and slow of harkening, to discern sundry gracious dispensations, which sinful defects were in the Lords Apostles, Mat 8. 17. dull and slow of Heart, for this was the Generation which was not excluded out of Canaan, for their unbelief, whose carcases fell not in the wilderness, and they were now within the space of a month or thereabout, to enter into the promised Land, Deut. 1. 3. and it was they who entered by Faith, and subdned Kingdoms, and kept their children poor and constant in God's worship all the days of Josuah 24. 31. It is true (say they) a Apolog, c. 3. God entered also into a covenant with their Fathers 40, years before, but not till he had humbled them to a conscionable (though a legal) fear of His great Name; and even some of them also (it may be) remembered that they were borne under the covenant of grace, from the Loins of Abraham, though needful it was that God should enter with them into a new covenant, and lead them from the Law to Christ, because they had so long degenerated from the spirit and ways of Abraham, during their abode in Egypt, Exod. 20. 7, 8. Answ. This place maketh both against the constitution of a visible Church, and against the Church-Oath framed by cu● brethren, Therefore once, for all, it must be vindicated; and 1. I answer, the swearing of a covenant in truth by sound faith putteth person● in state of membership, with the invisible and true body of Christ; it is true, but not in the state of a Church as visible, and therefore the Major of the first syllogism it false, it is one thing to be a member of the Church as true, and of the people internally in covenant with God, or a jew in the Heart; and another thing to be in covenant externally and a member of the visible-Church, to be borne a Jew and circumcised, and to profess the doctrine of Moses his Law did formally make persons members of the Jewish visible Church, though they should never swear this covenant, as many died in Egypt, and lived and died members of the Jewish Church, and did eat the Passover, and were circumcised, whose carcases fell in the Wilderness, because of their murmuring, these did never swear, neither this covenant, Deut. 29. nor the covenant Exod. 19 2. Here is a people in carnal estate and cannot be a covenanted, and churched society of Saints, for v. 3. the Lord objecteth to them habitual hardness. 3. The great temptations that thine eyes have seen, the signs and these great miracles. 4. Yet the Lord hath not given you an Heart to perceive, and eyes to see and ears to hear 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to this same day; this is an habitual blindness, propagated from fathers to sons as Ez●. 2. 3. They and their fathers have rebelled against me 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 even to the body of this day. Jerem. 25. 3. and Jeremy 3. 25. we have sinned we and our fathers from our youth to this day. Now this is not the state of the Disciples, Mar. 8. for Christ is not judging them of their state, as if they were yet carnal, but of their faithless actions, in some particular: when they wanted bread, they disinherited the Lord, when I broke the five Loaves amongst many thousands, how many baskets took ye up? Christ rebuketh them, that they were yet hardened, notwithstanding some great miracles which might have induced them to believe he would furnish them with bread, But this people was hardened, (I mean not of them all, but of the greatest part) against all the means of grace, though Moses, by a Synecdoche, mention only signs, temptations and miracles, yet he understandeth and meaneth no less, than they were disobedient to all God's dispensation of means, since the time that God first sent Moses to Pharaoh, and preached the covenant to them, Exod. 4. 3, 4, 5. Exod. 6. 6, 7. and therefore nameth he Pharaoh and Egypt with a note of universality, ye have seen all which the Lord did to Egypt, and to Pharaoh and therefore this is an universal habitual hardness, and cannot be their infirmity. 3. This is his expression in the like stile, Ez●. 12. 2. Esa. 6. 9 10. Mat. 13 15. 4. This interpretation of our Brethren doth but help Arminians, our Divines say against it, a junius anal. Deut. 29. non dederat vobis co● ad res visas & auditas observandum. junius, God (saith he) gave not an Heart, cum fructu, with fruit, to observe what you heard and saw, b Amesius Coron. 3. Art. Arg. 2. p 254 & Antisy●. Art. 3. c. 4. p. 294. Amesius hence proveth, that they were not converted, and that they wanted sufficient grace c Piscator. amicâ duplicat. add Vorst. p. 539. Piscator d Calvin come. in Deut. 29. Calvin hence prove that many are externally called, who are never converted, yea a Papist as e Cajetan in Deut. Cajetan, and f Abulensis 29. Abulensis, carnalis itaque manifestatur hic populus, Arminians as these at Dort g Remons. in Script. dordr. art. 4. p. 113. Vorstius h Vorstius contra Piscat. p. 539. 540. Grevinchovius i Grevinchov. con. Amis. p. 38. Episcopius k Episcop. disp. 9 Th●ll. 3. are of mind, that such places as this hinder not, but all have sufficient grace, if they would believe: so do the Socinians as the Catechis. l Catech. Raccov. c. 10 p. 259. of Racovia m Socin. ad object. critteni. p. 86. Socinus, n Edvard. Poppius, August. part. p. 91. &. c. 31. 66. Edward Poppius, and our brethren by it will prove all these Jews to be in the state of Regeneration. 5. The Author of o Discourse of the church-covenant fol. 5. the Church-covenant saith, they were generally a generation of Believers, but this covenant is made universally with all, as is clear, it is made with Israel, Captains, Tribes, Officers, little ones, Wives, children, strangers, the absents, and these who are not borne, v. 10. 11, 12, 13, 14. Now I ask, if all these were satisfied in their consciences, of one another's salvation, as our p Way of the church ch. 1. sect. 2. Author requireth, in fit materials of a visible Church; It was impossible, Ergo, this is not the Church-covenant of converted persons, known to the conscience of Moses, to be converted. 2. Moses saith expressly of the same generation, ch. 31. 20. That when they were come to the holy Land, they would serve other Gods, and provoke God unto wrath. And of that same generation God saith, v. 21. For I know their imaginations, which they go about even now before I have brought them unto the Land which I swore; this was (as you say) about a month before their entry to the holy Land. 27. I know thy rebellion and thy stiffe-necke (saith Moses) behold while I am yet alive, this day, ye have been rebellious against the Lord, how much more than after my death? were they all then a generation, who by faith subdued kingdoms? Surely this was but verified in their holy Judges, like joshuab, and some few others; it is true they did not prosessedly in joshuabs days make defection, yet they Were not all renewed, (as our brethren say) for joshuab saith▪▪ ch. 24. 14. Put away the strange Gods, which your fathers served in the other side of the flood, and in Egypt, and serve the Lord. v. 23. Now therefore put away the strange gods, which are amongst you. And that song of Moses, ch. 32. was made for the conviction of the present generation. ch. 31. 22, 23, 24, 25. Now in this song much is said of corrupting themselves, serving idols, forgetting of the rock, and father who begat them, their sacrificing to devils, and therefore such were not generally such as subdued Kingdoms by faith, and by faith entered into Canaan, as ye say. And so also (say we) our Churches under the New Testament, though consisting of a mixed multitude, are rightly constituted, and true visible Churches; therefore this covenant is not the formal being and essence of a Church. And what sort of people were they when the Lord covenanted with them in Hore●, Exod. 20. A generation who grieved the Lords Spirit, tempted him in the Wilderness, offered to stem Moses, committed idolatry, would appoint themselves a Captain to return back to Egypt, lusted in the Wilderness, disinherited the Lord, and could not enter in through unbelief, and their carcases fell in the Wilderness, and three and twenty thousand were slain for fonnication. And therefore there is no ground that Moses first or last made a Church covenant only with some selected and choice persons, partakers of the heavenly calling, heirs annexed with Christ, Kings, and Priests unto God, for all promiscuously were the materials of this Church; yea those, who were not borne, and the absents, Deut. 29. 10. Ye stand this day, all of you before the Lord your God, your Captains of your Tribes, you Elders, and your Officers, with all the men of Israel. V. 11. Your little ones, your wives, and the stranger that is within thy gate, from the h●wer of Wood, to the drawer of Water. V. 12. That thou shouldest enter into covenant with the Lord thy God, etc. Now were Moabites and Amonites made members of the jewish Church, and all the strangers? then they must enter into the Temple; how then are they forbidden to enter into the congregation of the Lord, to the tenth generation? You admitted not to your Church covenant in New England all professors, here none are excepted; this covenant is made with absents, and those who are not yet borne; now those who are not personally present, and those who are not yet come into the world, can make no restipulation of a covenant with God, nor can be the fellow members of the Church, except you make persons invisible to be visible members of a visible Church. 6. There is far less ground to say, that because they had degenerated from the spirit and ways of Abraham, by idolatry, it was fit that God should renew a covenant with this generation, and so make them a visible Church; for this is as fitting to say, a sick man in whom there is a living soul, is made a living man by the entering of a new living soul in his body, for before this covenant the people was the Church visible in the Wilderness; the renewing of a covenant may quicken a decaying life of God in some, but it cannot give the being, and essential form of a visible Church, to that which before was a visible Church. 7. Papists would be glad that we should put this in print, that there is a time when God hath no visible Church on earth at all, Bellarmin, Stapleton, Pererius, and others lay this upon us, but unjustly. It would gratify Arminians as a Episcop. disp. 27. thesi, 8, 9, 10. Episcopius b Remonst. in confess. cap. 21. thesi 6. the Remonstrantes in their confession, c jac Armin. Antiperke, pag. 224. in illa Math. 16. jacobus Arminius. And the Socinians, such as d Theoph. Nicolaides in refut. tractate de eccle. cap. 3, p 23, 24 25. Smalcius disputat de eccles. 8. p. 9 Theophilus Nicolaides, (e) Smalcius, f Ostorodius jnslit. c. 42. p. 4. 2. and Ostorodius, to say that Christ may be a King and head, a husband and redeemer, and yet have neither subjects, members, spouse, nor redeemed people, and that it may fall out that Christ have no Church on earth; for the laying hold on the covenant giveth being and life to the Church, as the body of Christ and his true spouse, as well as it giveth being to the visible Church, according to ou● brethren's doctrine, and if this covenant cease, there is not a Church of Christ on earth. 8. We have heard nothing here as yet, but the covenant of grace, and no Church-covenant. But saith the Author of the Church-covenant, (g) Though it be indeed the covenant of grace, and made principally with God; it followeth not hence, that it is not a covenant of the members amongst themselves, for the covenant of God tieth us to duties to our neighbour, and to watchfulness, and edification one of another, Levit. 19 17. Deut. 29. 18. the neglect whereof in the matter of Achan, brought sin on all the congregation, Josh. 7. yea it tieth us to duties to children not yet borne, who shall after become members of the Church, when jehojadah made a covenant betwixt the King and the people; it was but a branch of the Lords covenant, obliging the King to rule in the Lord, and the people to obey in God. Answ. 1. But if particular duties to our brethren bind us by a new Church-covenant, because God's covenant commandeth these duties, then because God's covenant commandeth sobriety toward ourselves, and righteous dealing toward our brethren, there is required a selfe-covenant towards yourselves, for temperance and sobriety toward yourselves, as there is required a Church-covenant to bind you to duties to those who are in Church membership with you, this no man can say, nor can several duties require several covenants. 2. It is true when we enter into covenant with God, we swear duties to all to whom we are obliged, but then we are made members of the visible Church, before we swear this Church-covenant; and this is, as if Abraham were made a living man before he have a reasonable soul, and as if Abraham were Israel his father, before Israel be Abraham his son, for if Abraham be inchurched when he did swear the covenant of grace, (as the Author granteth) than he must be a member of a visible Church, while as yet there is not a visible Church; to which Abraham is tied; I deny not but Israel may swear obedience to all God's covenant, and all duties therein, and that he may swear also in particular, to perform all duties to Abraham his father, in another oath, but that he cannot enter in the state of relation of sonship to his father, while he swear that oath in particular, is a dream which hardly can be conceived. 3. The people's fin in not warning Achan was a fin against a duty of the covenant, exacting obedience of all in brotherhood, though not in a Church-state, Levit. 19 17. and job and his friends who were members of no visible Church, (as you say) did perform this, one to another, job 4. 3 4. job 2. 11. job. 4. 1. 4. The covenant that Jehojadah made betwixt the King and the people, will prove the lawfulness of a covenant to perform Church-duties, beside the general covenant of grace, which we deny not, but doth not prove, that a covenant to Church-duties is the essential form of Church-membership, and the only way, by Divine precept, of entering persons in a Church-state; for persons already in Church-state may, upon good reasons, swear a covenant to these duties, yet are they not of new inchurched to that congregation, whereof they were members before. Their next principal argument as ( a Apology c. 4. ) the Apology saith, if a Church-covenant be the essential form of a Church, as a stock of Saints is the material cause, than the Church-covenant is necessary to the being of the Church, and it is that whereby Ecclesia integra constituitur, collapsa restituitur, & quo sublato Ecclesia dissolvitur & destituitur, that is, it is by this covenant a Church is instituted in its integrity, and when it is sullen, it is restored to its integrity, and when this covenant ceaseth, the Church is no longer a visible Church. Answ. When a Church falleth it is not restored to the state of a visible Church by circumcision, and yet circumcision is given as a sign of a covenant betwixt God and his Church, Gen. 17. 11. nor is a Church restored by Baptism, or Baptising over again, and yet Baptism is that whereby we are entered members of the visible Church. 2. When persons fail in omitting Church duties; I think they fail against your Church-Oath, yea when they fall into any sin that may be a scandal to others, yea the fin of adultery, yet if they repent and hear ●he Church, they are not excommunicated, neither do they ●ose the right of Church-membership and right to the seals of the covenant, nor is it needful they be restored by renewing a Church-covenant, but we desire to hear from God's word proofs of the singular virtues of this Church-covenant. 3. Discipline is by all Divines thought necessary to the well being of a Church, but not to the simple being thereof, and for this we appeal to the learned Parker who denieth a Parker de polit. l. 1. c. 17. Discipline to be an essential note of the visible Church, and citeth b Cartwright adversus Harrin. sonum. Cartwright for this, and therefore saith that Calvin, Bortrandus de Logues, Mornaeus, Martyr, Marloratus, Galusius, and Beza omitteth discipline amongst the notes of the Church. The apology addeth c Apology ch. ●. if the national Church of the Jews was made a national Church by that covenant, and thereby all the Synagogues had Church-fellowship one with another in the Temple, than the congregational Church is made a visible Church by that covenant. 2. Also the fallen Church of the Jews was restored to a Church-state (say they) by renewing a covenant with the Lord in the days of Asah & Hezekiah, and these who fell to Judah 2 Chron. 9 25. are commanded not to stiffen their necks, or (as in the original) to give their hand unto the Lord, that so they might enter into the sanctuary 2 Chron. 30. & 8. Answ. Is it credible or possible, that all the Synagoves of so many hundred thousand people, as were in the 12. Tribes were all satisfied in conscience, anent the regeneration one of another's and this is required of you to the right swearing of a Church covenant, else how could they in the Oath join themselves to all Israel, as to a Generation of Saints? ●● Israel before this Oath, was circumcised, and had eaten the Passoyer, and so was a visible Church before, yea then God had no Church visible before this Oath, which is against Gods promise made to David, and his seed, Psal. 89. 28. ●9. Also in Abijahs days Judah was the true Church of God, 2 Chron. 13. 8. And now y●t think to withstand the Kingdom of the Lord in the hands of the sons of David. 10. But as for us, the Lord is our God, and we have not forsaken Him. 3. The inchurching of members is a Church-action, as all the Church casteth out, so all the Church receiveth in, as you a Way of the Church ch. 3. ●ct. 1. say, but the putting of judah and the strangers of Israel to this Oath, was by the King's authority, who convened them, 2. Chron. 15. 9 And Asah gathered all Judah, and Benjamin, and the strangers with them, and they were compelled by the Royal sanction of a civil Law to this covenant, v. 12. and they entered into covenant, etc. 13. That whosoever would not seek the Lord God of Israel, should be put to death, whether small or great, man or woman. 4. How were they all in, conscience satisfied anent the regeneration one of another, 1. Being such a number of judah, Benjamin and strangers out of Ephraim, Manasse and Simeon, v. 9 Were. 2. Gathered together and meet but one day? 5. This covenant obliged young ones, your covenant seeks no Church duties of little ones, for to you they are not members of a visible Church. 6. The place, 2 Chron. 30. 8. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 yield to God as servants b Juni●● in annot. prostrati auxilium cjus imploran●es. junius, humbly imploring his help, as the same phrase is Lament. 5. 6. we have served the Egyptians 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, and the Assyrians to be satisfied with bread, neither doth the Text say in infinitive, that ye may enter into the Sanctuary, as if a renewed covenant were a necessary preparation, before they could enter into the Sanctuary; but it is set down as an express Commandment of the King 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 enter ye into his Sanctuary, and there is not a word of a covenant in the Text, but only of the people's keeping the Passover, and though there had been a covenant (of which the Spirit of God, speaking so much of Iosiah's zealous Reformation, would not have been silent) it is not to a purpose judah was a visible Church, before Hezekiah wrote Letters to them, to ●ome to Jerusalem; to keep the Passover, as is clear ch. 29. 17. they begun to sanctify the House, the first day of the first month, and all the congregation worshipped. 36. And Hezekiah rejoiced at their zeal, and so there was a visible Church, and the Passover was eaten the 14. day according to the Law, also in all covenants renewed by the people of the Jews, the matter was done suddenly, and all convened in a day, when a voluntary preparation, and evidenced regeneration, could not be evidenced to the satisfaction of the conscience of all the people; nor can this preparation be called Jewish and temporary, for it is as moral to all who swear Churches duties one to another, as the covenant itself, which our brethren say, is of perpetual equity. And all these may be answered to the covenant, Neh. 10. where there is no insinuation of Church duties, but in general. 29. You walk in God's Law, and to observe and ●●e all the Commandments of the Law, and not to marry strange wives. The apology b Apolog. ubi supra. saith it is to no purpose that the people. 2 Chro, 15. was a Church before this covenant, because the place is not alleged to prove that a people are made a Church by entering into covenant with God, but to prove that a decayed Church is restored by a covenant, now the Church at this time was corrupted with idols, sodomy, etc. Answ. 1. Yet it proveth well that this covenant is not the formal cause of a visible Church; for a visible Church hath not its formal being, before it hath its formal cause. 2. The convening of all the people to swear, is an act of the Church visible, now nothing can have operations, before it have the formal cause. 3. The Author saith, who knoweth that all the Tribes of Israel were yet in covenant with God, from the days of their Fathers? Answer; I think that it is easily known, that they used and exercised many Church actions also, and so were a Church visible of a promiscuous multitude, and it is know●n that none were excluded from this covenant, none selected and chosen out as Regenerates, who only were thought fit to swear this covenant, and so that it is not your Church-covenant that all were forced to, and commanded under pain● of death, to attest. Our brethren, as first a The way of the churches of Christ in New England ch. 3. sect. 4. our Author, secondly b Apolog. c 5. the Apology, thirdly the Author of the Church-covenant, repose much on Isai. 56. 3. where the stranger is joined to the Lord, in a personal covenant, for his own salvation, for so the Text saith v. 3. 4. yet are they not joined to the visible Church, while they lay hold on the covenant, that is, to swear a Church-covenant, now that they are not members of the visible Church is clear f●r Deut. 23. 1, 2, 3. The Moabit, Ammonite, though never so holy, cannot be members of the visible Church, because they are discharged, to enter into the congregation of the Lord. 2. They complain● that they are not of the visible Church. The Lord hath separated me from his people. 3. Adjoining of them to the visible Church is promised; as a reward of their faith and obedience, v. 8. even a Name in God's House, Hence it is clear, persons under the New Testament have a promise and propbecy th●● if they be inwards joined by faith God shall give them a Name of Church-membership amongst his people, by swearing a Church-Oath, or if they lay hold on the covenant of the Church. Ans. 1. There is no churching here of strangers and eunuchs Author of the discourse of church-covenant. fol. 12. by Church-Oath, but as c Calvin Musculus in comme. Gualther in loc. Calvin, Musculus, Gualther, d junius annot. junius, observe, the Eunuch and stranger are comforted that under the Messi●hs Kingdom, they shall have no cause to complain of their ceremonial separation from God's people and the want of some ceremonial privileges of that kind, because the stranger and Eunuch shall have. v. 5. an everlasting room, and honour in Gods Hous●, and the Son of the stranger a place in the Catholic Church v. 6. 7. so being, they believe and obey. But 1. v. 6. to lay hold on my covenant is not to lay hold on the Church-covenant; give us precept, promise, practice, or one syllable in God's Word for this interpretation. 1. v. 4. to take hold on the covenant is to believe the covenant, and not to swear a vocal Oath. 2. To lay hold on the covenant, saith e Musculus ib. Musculus, is to keep the covenant, and not to depart from it, to live according to it, f junius annot saith junius) and to rest on God, to do what is Gods will commanded in the covenant (saith) g Calvin come. Calvin, and h Gualther. Gualther) and so all who spoke sense on that place, and never one dreamt of a Church-covenant before. 3. God saith of it (my covenant) there is no reason then to call it a Church-covenant here more then jerom. 31. 32. 33. Psal. 25. 10. Isai. 55. 3. jerem. 50. 5. Zach. 2. 11. 4 Laying hold on the covenant is not an external, professed, vocal, visible and Church embracing of the covenant, for then the Lord promiseth to the Eunuch the name of a faithful visible fellow member, in a congregation, if he shall lay hold on the covenant, and swear it in the Church assembly, this Church-swearing is not rewarded so, for how is it proved that a name, even an everlasting name, better than the names of sons and daughters, is the name of a fellow-member in some obscure congregation or parish? is this better than the name of a borne Jew, who was also a member of the visible Church, and if he believed in Christ, had also the everlasting name of a member of the Jewish Church? Surely there is no ground for this in God's Word, the everlasting name must be some spiritual remembrance and some invisible honour beyond the external honour of being named the son or daughter of a Jew, and by what warrant also of God's word is Gods holy mountain and his house of Prayer. v. 7. which in the New Testament can no more be literally expounded, then offering of burnt offerings by what warrant is this called a parochial visible congregation, where visible saints meets in one material house ordinarily, and in one visible Churchway? The house of Prayer there, is Joh. 2. expounded of the typical Temple, which spiritually did typify Christ's body, as he expoundeth it himself, joh. 2. 18, 19, 20. dear brethren do no violence to God's Word. 2. There is no ground that the Eunuch and stranger had no other complaint, but want of visible membership: for his laying hold on the Lords Sabbaths saith the contrary, and though he should complain of that, it is a small comfort promised, th●● he shall be a member of a visible congregation, which membership many judasses' and Hypocrites enjoy also. 3. Though there were a visible Church-membership here promised (as no intepreter that ever yet saw it, but yourselves) yet it should only follow, before heathen, who are come to age, be Baptised, and so inchurched, they should externally lay hold on a professed covenant, and so, that they might be members of the invisible Church, before they be members of the visible Church, which is much for our Baptisme-covenant, and nothing for your Church-covenant. 4. Church-membership, by your exposition, Regul. j●ris conditionatum ●ihil ponit, nisi ponatur conditio. is promised to none, but these, who inwardly by true faith are joined to the covenant; then all Church-Acts performed by pastors and professors not converted, though they proceed, clavae no● errante, following Christ his rule are null, and no bapti●ing, no binding in heaven, for a promise conditional is no promise (say reason and lawyers) where the condition is not fulfilled. The Author of the Church-covenant a Discourse of the Church covenant art. 1. citeth that of Ez●k. 16. 8. I entered into covenant with thee, and thou becamest min●, Eze. 20. 37. I will cause you to pass under the rod; here is a covenant, not of a person, but of the whole House of Israel, v. 30. 39 This covenant is called a band, and Junius observeth well, takes from shepherds, who went amongst their sheep with a Rod, and selected and pointed out such as were for the Lords sacrifice, Leu. 26. 31. Ergo, under the New Testament, men enter not into the Church, hand over head, but they pass under the Rod of due trial, and then, being ●ound meet, are inchurched. Answ. He entered into covenant with Jerusalem, dying in her own blood, v. 6. v. 8. your covenant is made with a people washed and converted. 2. All are taken in promiscuously in this covenant externally, good and evil, who prospered to a kingdom, and were renowned amongst the Heathen, v. 13. 14. Your Church covenant is of persons who pass under the rod of pro●ation, and pass for sound converts. The other place is not to a purpose, for God is not speaking of gathering his people to a visible Church, but as a Calvin. Calvin b Pola●. come. Polanus, c junius. junius, God is meeting with the people's wicked conclusion, who said, v. 34. They were banished and captives mixed amongst the Nations, and so free from Gods correcting rod, or band of Discipline, and God saith, and I will make you to pass under the Rod 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, and I will bring you under the ●and of my covenant; The Word is also Psal. 2. 3. and it is true ●hat 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 signifieth a staff and a rod, Prov. 10. 13. but it signifieth also a King's Sceptre, Gen. 49. 10. but the band of the covenant signifieth no union of a visible Church, nor is the Lord in that place promising the mercy of a gathered Church, but by the contrary, he threateneth an evil, as v. 35. And I will bring you unto the wilderness of the people, and there will I plead with you face to face, 36. Like as I peaded with your Fathers 37. And I will cause you to pass under the Rod, etc. To select you out from amongst the Heathen, as sheep for sacrificing, as the next verse. 38. and I will purge out from amongst you the Re●●lls, etc. This place is violently brought to witness unjustly: And what though God would have them tried, who were taken under his covenant of protection? it should be the covenant of grace, and not a Church-covenant, for he meaneth no such thing. They allege, Jerem. 50. 4. And in those days, and at that time, the children of Israel shall come, they and the children of Judah together, saying let us be joined to the Lord, in a perpetual covenant, that shall not be forgotten. Answ. 1. Israel and Judah together cannot be a parochial congregation; nor 2. Can Zion be a parish Church; nor 3. is the Church-covenant, from which a man is loosed, when upon good warrants, and the consent of the congregation, he removeth cut of that Church to another, A perpetual Covenant that shall never be forgotten; for eternity is proper to the covenant of grace betwixt God and man, Jerem. 31. 33, 37, 38. Jerem. 32. 40. Isal. 54. 10. Isai. 55. 3. Isai. 59 21. and there is no covenant betwixt mortal men, who shall d●e, an eternal covenant. The Author a Discourse of a Church-covenant, ●ol. 23. saith, There is nothing more plain than Isai. 44. 5. One shall say, I am the Lords; and another shall call himself by the name of Jacob; and another shall subscribe with his hand, and surname himself by the name of Israel: These words are so plain as nothing can be more plain. Answ. This is a clear place, that under the M●ssiah all people shall profess themselves in covenant with God, and the children of God and the Church, and b Calvin praelect. ●b. Calvin citeth Psal. 87. 5. and of Zion it shall be said, This and this man was borne in her. but this is not plain at all, that these profess themselves sworn members of a particular Parish; yea, the contrary is most plain, that they shall call themselves by the name of Jacob and Israel; that is, children of the whole visible Church, for Jacob and Israel is not restricted to one particular congregation. Before the people's captivity, saith Musculus, c Musculus come. Isai. 44. The names of B●●l and idol gods sounded in their mouths, but then they shall profess the true God, and that they are his people. Now God's covenant is made principally, not with one single congregation, not is the blood that sealeth the covenant shed for one single congregation; nor are the promises of the covenant, Yea and Amen is Christ, for one single flock only, and primò & principaliter, but for the whole Catholic Church, and therefore they shall name themselves Christians. The Author addeth, d Discourse of the Church covenant. f. 9 Every Church is Christ's married Spouse, united to Christ by covenant, the violation of marriage is the violation of a covenant; yea, and there is a marriage betwixt the Church- members, Isa. 62. 5. as a young man marrieth a Virgin, so shall thy sons marry thee. Answ. A marriage betwixt Christ and his Church we grant and betwixt Christ and every particular soul believing in him, in respect of the love. 2. mutual interest and claim one to another, Cant. 2. 16. and what holdeth betwixt Christ and a Church catholic, or particular, holdeth also betwixt Christ and every soul, and to extort a Church covenant betwixt Christ and a particular soul, who may be and often is a believer, & yet out of Church-state, from the borrowed phrase of marriage, is ●oo violent blooding of comparisons; and therefore from marriage belonging to the catholic Church principally, how can a marriage visible be concluded? 2. the sonne● are the whole Church of the Gentiles; too large a P●rish incolaeterrae, saith Musculus, b Musculus. and excellently Calvin, c Calvinus prelect. ●●●o sic Deus Ecclesia m●●itus est, ut Ecclesie sue maritet ●●nes p●pulos, qui ad cam aggregantur. Christ so is the husband of his Church, that he marrieth upon his Church all people and Nations which are gathered to her, because while the Church wanteth children, she is as it were a widow; now this is nothing for a Church-covenant. Thirdly, there is a relative obligation of mutual duties of love betwixt fellow members of a visible Church, and betwixt sons and the mother congregation; but this is first done in Baptism expressly; secondly, in our coming to be members of such a congregation, but the person is before a member of the visible Church. The Author addeth d Author of the Church-covenant. If dissolving a covenant be that which dissolveth a Church, as Zach. 11. 9 10. then the making of a covenant is that which constituteth a Church; if dissipating of stones unbuild the house, then compacting of them together doth build the house; but the breaking of the covenant under the name of breaking of the two staves, beauty and bands, Z●ch. 11. is the inchurching of the jews, Ergo; Answ. The dissolving and breaking of the covenant of grace, and the removing of the Candlestick, and the Word of God, Revel. 2. 5. Am●s 8. 11, 12. taketh away the being of a Church, both as a true Church, and as a true visible Church; and of such a breaking of the covenant doth the Lord speak Zach. 11. v. 9 and I said I will not feed you; that which dieth, let it die; and that which perisheth, let it perish, etc. and it taketh away the union of brotherhood amongst the members, verse, 14. so the thing in question is not hence concluded; for the question is, if a Church-covenant make a Church as visible, and the breach of that Church-covenant unmake and dissolve a Church as visible, and this place proveth what maketh and unmaketh a Church simply as a Church, not as visible and under that reduplication. Quest. 3. Whether by testimonies from the new Testament, and good reasons, a Church-covenant can be evinced. Our Author e The way of the Churches, chap. 3. sect. 4. prop. 3. allegeth, 2 Cor. 11. 2. I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ; so also the Apology, f Apology chap. 6. this was nothing else but the planting of the Church at Corinth; if you say this Paul did while he converted them to the grace of Christ by his ministry; if this were true, saith he, than should Christ have many thousands, hundreds, and scores at least of spouses in one Church, which we think inconvenient. Secondly, it is plain he speaketh of the whole Church as of one spouse, and as it were one chaste Virgin; which argueth, he persuaded them all (as the friend of the bridegroom) to give up themselves with one accord as one man into one body, to the fellowship and worship of the Lord Jesus. Answ. it is a weak cause, that hangeth upon the untwisted thread of a misapplied metaphor. For 1. espoufing into Christ in the Text is opposed to being deceived and corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ, as Evah was deceived by the serpent, and opposed to the receiving of another spirit, and another Gospel; so then to be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ, and to receive another Gospel, must have this meaning; as Evah was deceived by the Serpent, so I fear that your simple minds be un-Churched and loosed from the visible Church of Corinth, and that you forget your covenant, wherein ye swear to take Christ for your husband, and me for the friend of the Bridegroom, and that you be remiss in the duties of external discipline; and Church-fellowship, and in excommunicating scandalous persons, etc. A● brethren, let not our Lord's word be thus tortured and wrested. 2. He expoundeth this espoufing, the presenting of them to Christ in the day of God, as a washed, redeemed, and saved wife of Christ, and not of their Church continuing in visible society. Yea, all interpreters, ancient and modern, as Augustine, Theophylact, chrysostom, Oecumenius, Cyrillus, Ambrose, Our latter, Calvin, Bullinger, Beza, Pom●ran, Pellicanus, Sarcerius, Marlorat, Paraphrastes, Erasmus; and Papists, Aquinas, Haymo: give this sense. Paul as the friend to the Bridegroom finding the Corinthians despising him, and in love with false teachers, grew jealous of them for his Lord's cause, that though he had betrothed them to Christ, as a virgin hand fastened by promise to a husband, left they should be drawn away to other lovers, by the cunning of false teachers as Evah was led from her Lord, by subtle Satan. 3. Though he speak of them, as of one body, spouse, virgin, how doth it follow that he speaketh of them, as of a ministerial and a parochial body? for the marriage, the betrothing to Christ, and the acts contrary, the receiving of another spirit, the corrupting of their simple minds, are acts altogether spiritual, internal, invisible, and acts of a Church, as a true Church, & the contrary are acts of a false Church, as false, and not acts of a Church as visible, in a visible meeting, in a visible external act of marrying, nor is their any insinuation, that Paul feared the dissolving of the Church oath and visible order of government. 4. It is not inconvenient, that there be many Spouses, as in every true believer, there be many single acts of marriage love, and of believing, and so of taking Christ for their husband and Lord. A visible Church is the House of God, 1 Tim. 3. 15. the Temple of God, Rev. 3. 12. and yet every believer is a Temple, 1 Cor. 3. 17. and every one His House; seeing he dwelleth in them by saith, Ephes. 3. 17. also if this be a good reason, he speaketh of them all, as of one chaste virgin. Ergo, he speaketh of them all, as of one visible parochial Church. Then brethren, because Christ speaketh, Joh. 3. 29. of the whole Church of the new Testament, as of one bride of himself as the bridegroom, and of the whole Catholic Church, that Christ hath washen and redeemed, as of one glorious Virgin, Ephes. 5. 27. and of the one Lamb's wife, Revel. 21. 9, 10. it shall follow that the Catholic church is one visible Church, and so one Parochial congregation, for you mock at a Catholic visible Church, (as your Author doth) who calleth it a Way of the Churches of Christ in new England, ch. 1. sect. 2. a Chimaera, though without reason. 5. And certainly twenty believers in one house and so twenty hundred convened in one, yet out of Church-state, are a body married upon Christ in respect of his Spirit, and their faith laying hold on him, as on their husband; yea, and the Church of Corinth, as Saints by calling; and considered without the respect of a visible Church-fellowship, is more properly Christ● wife, and Christ their husband, than they can be called Christ's wife, for an external communion of a visible profession, which is common to them with many repro●ates; yea, there is no ground at all to call a company, because of their visible profession, Christ's wife, no● doth God's Word speak so; the converted by Prophets not in office are most properly his wife; and these may say, we have betrothed you to Christ; and be not deceived nor corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ Jesus. Hence that place also is not for our brethren, 2 Cor. 9 12. The Apostle thanketh God for the Corinthians professed subjection to the Gospel, in their liberal contribution. Then (saith the Apology a Apology, ch. 11. ) here is a Church covenant; but if this professed subjection be a ground of a Church-covenant, the Corinthians extended this charity to the poor a● Jerusalem, as the Churches of Macedonia did also, than many particular congregations are Church-members in Church-fellowship, with the Church of jerusalem; for they professed this subjection to the Gospel toward the distressed at jerusalem, and so Corinth exercised Church-acts toward other Churches than their own; Independency by this must fall. Secondly, to relieve the poor is a duty of Christian charity, common to believers in Church-state, or not in Church-state, how then can it prove a duty of Church-state? The b Apology, ch. 11. Apology addeth, Hebr. 10. The Hebrews are commanded not to forsake the assembly of themselves together, as the manner of some is; Ergo, they convened by mutual consent, and so by covenant. Answ. Do not Infidels and Indians, as you teach c The way of the Churches of Christ in New England, c. 3. sect. 2. come to your Assemblies to hear the Word, and partake of the prayers and praises of the Church? But ye will not say, They are to come to those Assemblies by a Church-covenant. Secondly, what though they intended Assemblies by consent, and tacit covenant? it will not follow therefore by your Covenant, which is the formal cause of a visible Church, and this place proveth nothing, 2 Cor. 8. 5. The Churches of Macedonia first gave themselves to the Lord, and then to us, therefore they were Inchurched, by way of covenant to our ministry, so a Discourse of the Church covenant, fo. 9 the discourse; but these Churches gave themselves to God (in that duty of charity) and then to us, the exhorters to that charity, and the conveyors thereof to jerusalem; then the Church of Corinth was married on God, on Paul, yea and on the Churches of Jerusalem, for the Author maketh this mariage-love, and so Jerusalem is erected a mother Church, and Corinth subjected unto her; for these who give Alms, as becometh saints, are said to give their heart to God, and to the poor, as Isai. 53. 10. To draw out their heart to the poor, and that because of their cheerful and compassionate giving. Our Author b The way of the churches c. 3. sect. 4. saith John Baptist repelled Scribes and Pharisees, and the profane multitude, from his baptism, Luke 3. 7. Mat. 3. 7. and this was godly zeal, for they were a generation of Vipers, Luk. 3. 7. 8. and therefore they were not meet for Baptism, which is a Baptism of Repentance, Luke 3. 3. Philip baptised not the Eunuch while he made profession of faith. These and the like the Author and our brethren bring to prove, that men are not inchurched but by confession covenant-ways, and also to prove that the matter of the Church should be Saints by calling, hence c Apolog. ch. 11. The Apology citeth justin Martyr d justin Martyr apol. who saith three things were required of such▪ as were to be received into the Church. 1. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, that they be dedicated to God as members of their Church. 2. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 or regeneration, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 saith or a confission of faith and. 3. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which is a promise or covenant to live according to the rule of the Gospel; and the Author saith e Discoruse of the Church coven. 25. there were three questions propounded to these who were received by Baptism, Abrenuncias? Abrenuncio. 2 credis? credo 3. spondes? spon●eo, f Zipperus de polit. Ecclesiastica. l. 1. c. 14. Consuctum est nt qui admittantu● ad S. caenam coram totâ ecclesia, publicè sidei consessionem edam per parentes aut c●s qui erant parentum loco. Zipperus the Author saith hath more of this g Discourse fol. 25. . Answ. 1. Ye read not in the word that john Baptist rejected any from his Baptism, who desired to be baptised, yea by the contrary, Luk. 7. 29. It is said, and all they that heard him, and the Publicans justified God, being Baptised with the Baptism of John. v. 30. but the Pharisees and Lawyers rejected the counsel of God, against themselves, being not baptised of John: then the Pharisees and Lawyers refuse to be Baptised, and Mat. 3. 5. Then went out unto him, Jerusalem and all Judea, and all the Regions round about Jerusalem, confessing their sins, but when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadduces come to his Baptism, he said unto them. O generation of Vipers, etc. But that he baptised, them by the same Sermon, is clear, for v. 8. He exhorteth them to Repentance, and v. 9 dehorteth them from a● hypocritical profession, v. 10. he threateneth judgement to them, and v. 11. saith, I did baptise you with water, that (you) is relative, to these whom he called a generation of Vipers, and includeth them, for there is no ground in the Text to exclude them, and Luk. 3. 7. and he said to the multitude, that came forth to be Baptised, O generation of Vipers, & c. v. 21. and when Also if you w●ge a confession of faith before Baptism of all and every one, ourdivines from john his Baptising of all Judea, do prove the Baptising of Infants, you call in question with Anabaptists, if it be law full to Baptism Infants, & you make a Church covenant necessarily requisite before Baptism, and so all Baptised must be members of the visible Church, which you deny. all the people was baptised, etc. jesus also was Baptised. It is true, all that were baptised, and come to age confessed their sins, but they were entered members of the Christian Church by professing the covenant in baptism, and their covenant was no Church-covenant, entering them members of a parochial Church Oath, but entered them members of the whole visible Church, and they were not tied to such and such Church-acts of prophesying and judicial binding and losing; Also could they all be satisfied in conscience of one another's regeneration, for they did not meet frequently together to prayer and spiritual conference? 2. How could all Jerusalem and all Judea, Ma. 3. 5, 6. and all the regions round about, and all the people baptised, Luk. 3. 21. all swear a Church-covenant, and give a particular confession of their sins to the satisfaction of john Baptistes' conscience? yea john saith expressly of this visible baptised Church, Mat. 3. 10. 12. that they were some of them fruitless Trees to be hewn down, and some of them ch●ffe to be burnt with unquenchable fire, so the materials of this baptised Church are not visible Saints, and Lawyers hold of the covenant, as our brethren say. 2. The Eunuch coming to Jerusalem to worship, (which is an act of a Church-member) was in Church-state before he was baptised, and a Proselyte. 3. It is true that you cite out of justin Martyr, but you omit a word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 (saith Martyr) a Baptisme-covenant and professed by the heathen come to age, of which also only and of no other, justine Martyr speaketh, we wilingly acknowledge, but by that covenant they were received unto the catholic visible Church, and not unto a single independent Church only. 4. These Questions were propounded to the aged before they were baptised, and reason that heathen be tried, before they be baptised, and in this we agree with the Synod of a Synod. Heideburg. c. 64. Heidelberg, b Synod. Lugdinens. act. 17. in concione Lugdunensi against Papiste, and in Synods Parisiensi c Parisiens. art. 3. and what Mr. Parker d Parker de polit. Ecclesiast. l. 3. c. 16. 9, 4, 5. saith further of this kind may be admitted, if well expounded. 5. Zipperus helpeth us, consuetum est, etc. He thinketh it an ancient custom in the primitive Church, that before any were received into the Church they should give a confession, either themselves, or (saith he) Parents and Tutors, and so he acknowledgeth that infants in baptism were made members of the Church, though they could not swear this Church-covenant, nor give evidences of their conversion, and this is acknowledged by all the reformed Churches, of France, Germany, Holland, Helvetia, Poland, England, Scotland, etc. The Apology e Apology ch. 6. citeth, Acts 5. 13. And of the rest durst no man join himself to them, Greece, durst not be glued to them, a word of marriage covenant, Mat. 19 5. & Acts 9 26. Saul desired to be glued to them, the former word must note some voluntary act of joining to the visible Church, and that different from the act of conversion, for otherways it is gross Armimainsme, to say that our conversion dependeth upon our daring, or not daring, or that it is suspended upon an act of our freewill, for it dependeth upon the omnipotent working of the grace of God; and Saul Acts 9 26. though converted, yea and baptised, yet was he not received into the Churchfellowship, until they were better satisfied of his spiritual estate, by Barnabas, hence it is an error, that to be added to the Church is only to be converted to the faith, Ergo, a covenant is requisite. Answ. How strong is God's truth, Brethren, ye make your opinion weak which hangeth upon a grammatication of one borrowed word, None durst join mariage-way to the Church-visible; f Erasmus in paraph. Erasmus, g Beza annot in loc. Beza say it is a word translated from Trees glued together, and signifieth neither marriage, nor covenant, and signifieth either natural or artificial or moral conjunction, Acts 8. 29. Philip is bidden join himself to yonder Chariot, joining of Chariots is neither by marriage, nor covenant, so is the word, Luk. 15. 15. 2. It is not joined to a visible Parish Church, but to the whole Christian Church out of which Ananias and Saphira were cast. v. 9 10. Which made great fear, and made those who were not baptised (saith c Pomeran. comment. Pomeranus) to fear to join to the Church of God, and so it behoved to be the unbaptized and unconverted, who were feared, v. 12. and they were all with one accord, in Salomon's porch, that is, all the faithful added to the Church, now opposite to these, he saith of the unconverted and not added to the Church. v. 13. and of the ●est, without the Church, durst no man join himself to the Church: now this cannot be in a visible society, for then Luke should intimate, that the unconverted might have added themselves to the Church if they durst, and had not been stricken with the terror of the miraculous kill of Ananias and Saphira, now this they could not have done (as our Brethren say) hand over head, they behoved first to be converted, and testified their conversion by a Church Oath, nay Cajetan a Cajetan. come. in loc. saith well, they durst not haunt their company, they fled from them, and from the Apostle Peter, as from a man slayer, Nor doth the holy Ghost (I think) mean of any Church fellowship, he presupposing that they were unconverted, at least our Brethren must say this. 3. It is an unlearned reason that they give to prove, he meaneth not of conversion, for all voluntary acts supernatural even of joining to a visible Church and marrying of themselves to Christ, and his visible Church (as our Brethren say) are acts wrought by the irresistible, and omnipotent working of God's grace, no less than our first conversion; and to think otherways of our supernatural actions, is gross Arminianism, for so all who have written against Arminians as the learned Doctor Twisse, Amesius, Pareus, Triglandius, have expounded that passage (It is God who worketh in us both to will and to do) so Calvin, Beza, Sibrandus, Pareus, Ursine, Tilenus, Bucan, make all the operations of saving grace in conversion, and after conversion, irresistible. And it is known how the Dominicanes, Alvarez, Estius, Bannes Fran. Cumel, Matthew Rspolis, and many of that side hold a predeterminateing operation of grace ad modum causoe Physicoe, which beginneth before free will, so that no operations supernatural, yea nor natural are suspended upon the liberty of freewill, and they hold againsti Pelagianes, and the Jesuits, Snarez, Vasques, Valentia, Becan, Lod. Meratius, Hyeron. Fasolus, Did. Ruiz; and if you suspend all voluntary acts upon the influence of freewill, you follow Pelagians, Jesuits, Socinians, and Arminians in that point. 4. It is true the Disciples were afraid to admit Saul to their society, and no wonder, for he had not long since made havoc of the Church; but. 1. They did not inchurch him by an Oath. 2. They received him upon the sole testimony of Barnabas v. 27. which order you keep not, refusing communion to Christians of approved piety, and known so to you, because they cannot swear your Church covenant. 5. Who they be, who think, to be converted to the faith, and to be added to the visible Church, to be all one I know not; our divines never said it. 6. Though all were granted you, they durst not join to the apostolic visible Church; Ergo, there is a Church covenant, it is a great consequent. Now I desire to try your reasons for a Church covenant. It is not (saith the Apology) a Apolog. c. 6. hearty affection that uniteth Church-members in a visible Church, for so England and Scotland are united, nor. 2. cohabitation, for Papists and Protestants 1 Arg. from Reason. may cohabite, and yet they are not of one visible Church, nor 2. Meeting in one assembly uniteth not persons together, for infidels and Turks. 1 Cor. 14. may come to Church-assemblies, and hear the word, Ergo, this union must be as in all Bodies, Cities, Houses, Armies, by Covenant; none is made a Citizen to have right to the privileges of the City, but by a Covenant, for when one is received a member of an House or of an Army, or of any incorporation, 〈◊〉 is by a Covenant. Answ. 1. The ennumeration is unsufficient, for the Seal of Baptism and a profession of the truth, is that which maketh one a member of the visible Church. 1 Cor. 12. 13. for by one spirit, we are all baptised into one body, and can you deny the covenant, which is sealed in baptism? and by this are all the Citizens and Domestics inchurched and received into the visible Church, and when one removeth from one congregation to another, he maketh a tacit covenant to serve God in all his Ordinances with that new society, but he is not thereby made a member of the visible Church; for that he was before: nor hath he right to the Seals, as they are Seals of such a Church, but as they are Seals of the whole Catholic Church. The Apostles (saith the a Apolo ib. ch 6. apology) did two things when 2 Arg. they planted Churches 1. They joined them together in a Church covenant. 2. They constituted Elders in every Church, Acts 14 13. what the Apostles did, after they converted their hearers, a baptising, praying for them, laying on of hands, exhorting, inchurching against persecuters, disputing against adversaries, miracles▪ are acts tending to the good of the Church, not acts of planting a Church. Answ. 1. The first of these two is in question, we read not of such a covenant, as our brethren speak of. 2. Converting of Souls after the Church is constitute, is an adding to the Church, and preaching tendeth to this; The Law of the Lord converteth, Psal. 19 and when the Church is planted, it is not a perfect house, but stones are fitted and laid upon the corner stone daily. 3. That the Apostles act of planting is conversion and gathering to a visible body by a covenant, we deny; for planting is an erecting of Professors and Judges or Officer, whether they be converted, or not, so they profess the truth. 3. Arg. All Churches (saith the discourse b Discourse of the church covenant ●●l. 10. 11. ) are confounded, if there be not this Covenant to distinguish them, Smyrna is not Ephesus or Thyatira, none of them is Laodicea. 2. Every one of them is rebuked, for their own faults. 3. Faith or cohabitation doth not distinguish them., Ergo, this Church-covenant only doth distinguish them. Answ. Particular congregations differ not in essence and nature, as Church covenants differ not in nature; only they differ in accidents and number, and it is folly to seek differences, for Church covenants make not the difference; for ● Church covenant jam common to them all. 2. So Peter may be rebuked for his fault, and John for his, yet Peter and John differ not in nature. The apology c Apology p. 11. addeth, it is not a Covenant simply and is general, that doth constitute a Church, or distinguish it from another, but a Covenant with application, or appropriation, to these persons, as in marriage all promise these same duties, yet a Covenant applied to this man, and this woman, maketh this man such a woman● husband, and no other man. Answ. If this be all, baptism and professed Faith applied to this man rather than to this, shall as well distinguish persons and Churches, as Church covenants, so applied. 2. This is not a good and fit division, so to appropriate this Pastor to this flock, as he shall be a Pastor to no other people, but to them, and everteth all communion of Churches and Saints and denieth the use of the Seals in this Congregation from all members of another congregation whereas; God hath made him a pastor in relation to the whole visible Church on Earth, though his labours be tied to one determinate Church; So Papists marry the Bishop and his Church, hence they thought it unlawsull for a Bishop to d mit his Church in any case, for a Enaristus Epis● 2. de Episcopis ●j●ctis sicut vir non debet adul●erare uxorem suam, ita neque episcopus ecclesi● suam ut cam demitttat. Enaristus calleth that spiritual adultery, and we cannot approve of the b Concil. Antioch. c. 21. council of Antioch, and c Concil. Sardi. cons. 1. Sardis, that none can leave his Wife, that is, his married Church, etiamsi à populis eri● Episcopus necessitate adactus; And they say that d Council Carthaginense. 3 c. 38. Cres●on was condemned in the council of Carthage, for changing his Wife, to wit, his Church, e I●nocetius. 3. and Innocentius 3. saith, the spiritual baend of marriage betwixt a Bishop and his Church, is stronger, than the mariage-band betwixt a man and his wife; yea, Dominicus a Soto f Dominicus Sotus justit. & jure. l. 3. quest. 6. art. 2. saith, to change Churches is against the Law of nature, as to change Wives; yea saith Innocentius. 3. g Innocent 3. Onnipotens Deus conjugium quod est inter Episcopu● & Ecclesiam suo tantum judicio reservavit dissolvendum. 3. Argu. A free people (saith our Author) h Way of the church ch. 1. sect. Prop. 3. cannot be joined in a body, but by mutual consent, as appeareth in all Relations, betwixt Parents and Children, Husband and Wife, no Church (saith he) i Ibid. ch. 3. sect. 4. can take charge of a stranger believer coming from another congregation, unless he give himself, and offer his professed subjection to the Gospel, also it is a part of the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, that every one choose ●his own Pastor, Rom. 14. 1. we are to receive a weak believer; Ergo, he is to offer himself to the Church and to their order, by Covenant. Answ. 1. It is true, the relation of Pastor and free people is founded upon a tacit Covenant, but this Covenant is made in Baptism, for a pastor is a pastor to yond children whom ●he received into Covenant, in baptism, according to that, Acts 20. 28. feed the flock over which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, now infants are of these, because he is to feed them as a pastor loving Christ his lambs and young ones, no less than the aged. 2. Because he exercised pastoral acts over young ones, when he baptizeth them, yet infants are not under a ministry by a Church covenant. 3. The act of election includeth a tacit promise of subjection to the Minister, who is elected, and the pastors acceptation of the Church-Office includeth a tacit promise to feed that flock, but this is no Church-covenant, which I prove by one argument unanswerable. The Church-covenant (say our Brethren) is the formal cause of our Churchmembership, and of a visible Church, as a reasonable soul is the formal essence of a man, now the covenant that can intervene betwixt a pastor elected, and a people electing, is a posterior and later by nature, than a Church-covenant; for a people is a Church, as our brethren teach) and so constitute in its full power of all Church operations, and so hath its entire essence, and essential form, before they elect a pastor, as a man must be a reasonable man, before he can exercise the second operations, or actus secundos flowing from a reasonable soul. Therefore a Church and Pastor d●e take charge of a stranger coming to the Congregation though there be no Church-covenant, betwixt the Pastor and stranger, for the Church covenant is prior to the coming of this stranger and hath already constituted the Church in its entire essence and operations, though no stranger come at all, and though that stranger never covenant to obey the Pastor, and the Pastor never covenant to take care of that stranger. 4. Whereas it is said, It is a part of the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, that every one choose his own Pastor, I see not the truth of this in Scripture; The people hath power to choose, but that is a part of Christian liberty in this sense, I see not: the Prophets and Apostles exercised pastoral acts over many who made not choice of their Ministry, yea they preached to them against their will, and Paul preached as a Pastor to many in Corinth, against their will, and a faithful Pastor may preach to many, who never made choice of him for their Pastor, and to whom the word is the savour of death unto death, and to whom he hath vengeance in readiness. 5. There is no liberty purchased to us by Christ, but such as is regulated by God's Word, and found reason, a liberty of sole will in embracing or refusing a Minister, is licence, not liberty: now in Christ, we are called to liberty, not to licence, and if some of a congregation wanting the spirit of discerning upon prejudice, refuse a called pastor, to be their pastor; yet if the most part of the congregation elect him, he is a pastor to all, and to those who refused him, as Christ doth reign in the word and Ministry, over hypocrites, in a congregation, who say in their hearts we will not have this man to reign over us; yet here is a Ministerial charge which a pastor hath lawfully over such, as are not willing to submit to that ministry: the power of electing a pastor is not infallible; what if they or most of them, upon sole groundless prejudice, refuse such a man to be their pastor, is he not their pastor because all consent not? are we to think that Christ purchased a liberty in his blood of refusing a called pastor? nor can we think these who taught the doctrine of the Nicolaitans in Pergamus, and these who held the doctrine of Balaam, or that the woman Jezebel which called herself a prophetess in Thyatira, and seduced the people of God to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed to Idols, were received in Pergamus and Thyatira by a Church covenant; nor hath it colour of truth, that the faithful there were satisfied in conscience, with the conversion of I●zabel, and such as held the doctrine of Balaam, and that they consented, and did choose the Angel of the congregation of Pergamus, and Thyatira (as our brethren speak) for their pastor, and yet the pastors and Church are rebuked for not executing the censures of the Church over the followers of Balaam, Revel. 2. 14, 15. and upon jezabel the false prophetess; Ergo they are not all such materials of a visible Church, (as our brethren say) even saints by calling, and a Church doth well take the charge of those, who never offered their professed subjection to Christ's Ordinances, we are not to think, that these who called themselves Apostles, and yet were Liars, were visible saints approved in the sight of God to the consciences of the Church of Ephesus, and that such did offer their professed subjection to the Angel and Church of Ephesus, as you teach, yet that Church took care of them, by the censures of the Church, and are commended therefore, Revel. 2. 2. Thou canst not bear them that are evil, and hast tried them, which say they are Apostles, and hast found them liars. If a false teacher shall come to a congregation, and be a hearer for some years, and at length fall to, and teach pernicious Doctrine, will not the Church censure him, labour to stop his mouth, yea and excommunicate him, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord? I think they cannot but exercise some Church censures, and that the pastors convincing of such a gaine-sayer, and a stopping of his mouth, is the very pastoral charge, laid upon Titus by Paul, Tit. 1. 10, 11, 12. as is most clear v: 13. Rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith. 6. That place Ro. 14. is not rightly, expounded, for 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is not to receive into Church-state by way of covenant, but it is, as Pareus a Pareus comment, Rom. 14. saith, ammeter & placide instituere, patienter tolerare, to instruct him patiently in the Christian liberty about meats and days, and so b Beza ann●t. Beza, take him in; and far less, slay not his company, c Calvin. come. Marlorat, institute, fovete, donec proficiat, and so d Castellio. Calvin, (e) Castellio, opitulemini, help him, and the word is Philem. 12. receive him as my bowels, not unto Church-state, for Philemon was no pastor. Question 3. Whether or not, it be lawful for one, or many Quest. 18. sent and resolved by the postors of New England. particular Churches, to swear a plate-forme, and prescribed vocal covenant, called the confession of Faith, of such a Church. It is a fit place, having spoken so much of a Church covenant, to speak of a covenant of the faith of a Church; our Brethren being asked, what means have you to preserve unity and verity. Answ. 1. We have (say they) Scriptures. 2. The pastors, Epk● 4. 11. and Gods promise to lead them in all truth, jerem. 32. 39 jer. 16. 13. But this is not a right Answer, for when we inquire of the means to preserve verity and unity, we ask for the external means, whereby the Scriptures are kept, from false glosses; it is true the Scriptures keep themselves from false interpretation: but the Question is, by what external means do the Scriptures keep themselves from false glosses? The answer is not right, the Scriptures keep themselves from false glosse●, by keeping themselves from false glosse●. Also the Question is by what means do pastors keep unity amongst themselves. It is not right answered, that pastors, by pastors, keep ●nity amongst themselves. But we think a platform (say ●ur Brethren ibid.) of doctrine and discipline, or a confession of Faith, or doctrine according to godliness, may be made by any Church or person, but (say they) ●● platform to be imposed on ourselves or others, as a binding Rule ●f faith, and practise, so that all men must believe and walk according to that platform, without adding, altering, or omitting, we doubt whether such be lawful, or convenient. Whence our brethren con●emne the swearing or subscribing by Oath, of a confession imposed or stinted by the Church. Let these considerations be weighed. 1. Distinction, There is a principal and original and formal ●round of faith which is the Word of God in the Old or New Testament, this is the only perfect and formal ground of Faith. 2. There is a secondary and material ground of Faith, which is so far ● ground of Faith and practice, as it agreeth with the Word ●f God. 2. Distinct. There is a confession which containeth fundamentals only, the knowledge whereof is simply necessary for salvation, and the simple ignorance whereof condemneth; There is a confession which containeth fundamentals and non - fundamentals, which are not simply necessary to be known by all, necessitate ●●edii. 3. Dist. A confession of faith, is to be respected in regard of the matter, which is Divine Scripture, or according to the stile, conception and interpretation, which is in some respect, humane. 4. Distinct. There is a confession of a particular man, what such a person, or Church believeth de facto, as the confession of ●●e Belgic Arminians, and a confession de jure, what every one ought to believe, as the Nicen Creed, the Creed of ●thanasi●s. 5. Dist. There is a confession of a faith firm and sure, quoad ●ertitudinem fidei, quoad substantiam articulorum credendo●um, sure in the Articles believed, and a confession sure, quoad radicationem fidei in subjecto; the first way all are obliged ●● believe the Articles contained in the word, But we see not, how now after the Canon of Scripture is closed, but the certainty of faith, according to the measure of light more or less, as our Lord more or less doth reveal himself, in a more, or less measure of light: doth not grow, wo●, or decrease, according to the certainy of faith, the second way, hence we say. 1. Conclusion, Only the Word of God is the principal and formal ground of our Faith, Eph. 2. 20, 21, 22. 2 Tim. 3. 16. Luk. 14. 25. 2. Concl. A confession of Faith containing all fundamental points, is so far forth the Word of God, as it agreeth with the Word of God, and obligeth as a rule secundary, which we believe with subjection to God, speaking in his own Word, and to this platform we may lawfullly swear. 1. What ever we are obliged to believe and profess as the saving truth of God, that we may lawfully swear to profess, believe and practise, that the bond of faith may be sure: but we are obliged to believe and profess the national confession of a sound Church; Ergo. The proposition is clear, from david's and the Saints practise who laid bands on their souls to tie themselves to that which is lawful, as, Psal. 119. 106. I have sworn, and will perform it, that I will keep thy Righteous judgements. The major is the doctrine of our Dvines, and clear, when they explain the matter of a lawful Oath as a Pareus Urfin. in manned. 3. q●. 102. art. 4. Pareus b ‛ Bucanus loco 45. quest. 6. Bucanus c Tilen. sint. disp. 42. in tert. precept disp. 1. Thess 17. Tilenus, d Profess. Leyd. synop. purior. theolog. disp. 38. Thess. 5. Profess Leydens'. e Calvin in manned. 3. Calvin, junius, Beza, Piscator, Zanchi●, etc. That things lawful, may lawfully be sworn to GOD, observing other due circumstances. The assumption is ●●deniable. 2. Arg. That whereof we are assured in conscience to be the truth and true Religion, bringing salvation to men's souls, to that we may tie ourselves, by an Oath, upon the former grounds. But the sound confession of faith, set down in a platforms is such, as we may and are to be assured of in conscience, ● the truth of God; Ergo, The assumption is proved, because what is God's Word and truth, of that we are to be assured of i● conscience, as Col. 2. 7. Being knit together in love unto all riches of the full assurance of understanding, and Heb. 6. 11. should keep the full assurance of hope to the end, Col. 2. 2, 3. Eph. 4. 14. 3. If the people of the Iewes did swear a covenant with God, to keep the words of the covenant, to do them, Deut. 29. 9 10, 11. To seek the Lord God of Israel with all their heart, and with all their soul, 2 Chron. 15. 12. and if they entered into a curse, and an oath, to walk in the Lord's law which was given by Moses the servant of God, to observe and do all the Commandments of the Lord, and subscribed and sealed the covenant, with their hands, Nehem. 10. 1. v. 29. Then is it lawful for a Church to swear, and by oath subscribe an Orthodox confession. But the former is true, as the places alleged clear; Ergo, so is the latter. That which only may be doubted of, is the connexion of the major proposition, because Israel did swear to nothing but to Moses written Law, which in matter and form was Gods express written word; but it will not follow, that we may swear a platform of Divine truth framed and penned by men; but the connexion notwithstanding of this remaineth sure, because Israel did swear the Lord's covenant, according to the true meaning and intent of the Holy Ghost, as it is God's Word, and we also swear a national covenant, not as it is man's word, or because the Church or Doctors, at the Church's direction, have set it down in such and such words, such an order or method, but because it is God's Word, so that we swear to the sense, and meaning of the platform of confession, as to the Word of God; now the Word of God, and sense and meaning of the Word is all one; God's Law and the true meaning of the Law are not two different things. When a Jew sweareth to the doctrine and covenant of God in the Old Testament, in a Jewish meaning, he sweareth not to the Word of God, because the Word of God unsoundly expounded is not the Word of God; and though the Sadducees and Pharisees swear the five books of Moses, and the very covenant which Asah and the Kingdom of Iud●h did swear 2 Chron. 15. yet do they not swear the covenant of God, and that same which God's people did swear 2 Chron. 15. Or if any professing they worship idols should swear that covenant, alleging the covenant doth not forbid idols to be memorial and objects by which absolute adoration is given to God, we would not think that they had sworn the covenant of God, but only words of God falsely expounded, yea and made to be not God's Word, but a plain lying invention. Therefore it is all one whether a Church swear a confession, in express words of Scripture; or a covenant in other words expounding the Scriptures true meaning and sense according to the language and proper idiom of the Nation and Church; for we swear not words or a platform as it is such, but the matter, sense, and meaning of the Scriptures of God set down in that platform; and it is certain, in Nehemiahs' time there was some platform, either the writings of Moses, or some sound exposition thereof; else I see not how they could seal it, Nehem. 9 38. And because of all this, we make a sure covenant, and write it, and our Princes, Levites and Priests seal unto it. Now that which was written could not but be a platform either in Scripture only, according to the meaning of the exacters of the oath, or some interpretation; else every man writ his own covenant and sealed it, which is not like, for they all jointly swore this covenant; and the reason of this written, sworn, and sealed covenant, being moral, as is clear, because of the apostasy of the whole Church, and judgements upon them, for their apostasy, v. 38. And because of all this, we make, and write a sure covenant, saith the Text 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 & in toto ho (vertit a Aria's Mont. Arias montanus) nos excidentes fidelitatem b Hebraei. judaei excudentes faedus fidele, c junius annot. junius, pro toto hoc pepigimus constitutionem; now sins, back-slidings, and judgements may be and often are in all the Christian Churches. 2. To swear to the true religion, the defence and maintenance thereof is a lawful oath; as to swear to any thing that is lawful, and to lay a new band on our souls to perform holy duties, where we fear a breach, and find by experience there hath been a breach, is also a duty of moral and perpetual equity; therefore such a sworn covenant is lawful: I say not from this place, that it is necessary, that all subscribe with their hands a covenant, because I think only the Princes, Levites, Priests and heads of families did subscribe the covenant, Nehem. 9 38. but Nehem. 10. 28, 29. The whole people, all who had separated themselves from the Lands sin, and their strange wives, even their wives, their sons, their daughters, every one having knowledge, and having understanding. V. 29. They clavae to their brethren, their Nobles and entered into a curse, and into an oath to walk in Gods Law. If it be replied, that there was in Israel no written covenant drawn up by a man, and put in a man's stile, language, method, and frame, they did swear to keep Moses his Law. I answer, when we swear a covenant, our faith doth not rely upon words, characters, stile of language, or humane method, or any humane respects, but upon the truth of God, in that platform; and suppose we should swear and subscribe the Old and New Testament translated into our vulgar Language; we do not swear to the translation, characters, and humane expression; but to the matter contained in the translation; and that because jehovah our Lord hath spoken it in his Word. And if this be a good argument why we cannot swear a platform, then should none swear a covenant at all, or make any holy vow, but those who understand the original Languages in Hebrew and Greek; and yet the characters and imprinting is humane even in the original, so all religious covenants and oaths should be unlawful. 4. Argum. What a Church or person is to suffer for, or to believe, and obliged to render account of to every one that asketh account of us, that we may swear, and seal with our hands, because what we are to suffer death for, and the loss of temporal life, for which we owe a reckoning to God by virtue of the ●ixt Commandment, that is a matter of truth which we profess before God and men, and our dying for the truth, is a sort of real oath, that we are before God professing that truth, is to be preferred to our life. But we are to suffer (if God call us) even death for the true Religion, Revel. 2. 13. Act. 7. 57, 58. Luk. 21. 15 16. Phil. 1. 20, 21. ●nd the truth; and we are obliged to believe, and to give account thereof before all men, and a reason of our faith and hope, 1 Pet: ●, 15. Ergo, we may swear it. Argum. 5. If an oath to the true Religion, and form of wholesome Doctrine, be a special remedy against back●iding, and a mean to keep off false and heretical doctrine; then is such an oath lawful: but the former is true▪ Ergo; The Proposition is clear; God's people say, Nehem. 9 38. Because of all this; that is, because they had done wickedly, and were tempted still to do more, therefore they write and seal a Covenant; and if false teachers teach, Circumcision must be if we● would be saved, than the Church may, according to Acts 15. condem●e that false doctrine by the Word of God, and set down Canons which the Churches are to observe; and what they are to observe as warranted by God's Word, layeth on bands upon the Conscience, and what layeth on such a band, that we may bind ourselves, by oath, to perform, it being a special remedy lawful against backsliding from the truth. 6. Arg. Our brethren have their grounds and reasons against the swearing of confession common to them, with the Arminians and Socinians, and their Arguments are all one; for a Remonst. in scrip. Synodicis pag. 81. Arminians censure the Belgic confession and the Pala●ines Catechism, and propound thirteen questions against it, as the third question is, An quaecunque dogmata in confession & Cat●chisme tractantur talia sunt, ut cuilibet Christiano ad salutem creditu necessaria sint. And their seventh question is, If such confessions may be called secundaria fidei norma; a secundary rule of faith: also all Confessions, say they, b Remonst. in presat. ● Declarat. suam Confessiones co fine editae, non ut authores earum, testatum facerent quid sit credendum sed quid ipsi crederent. declare That Confessions serve not to teach what we ought to believe, but what the Authors of these Confessions did believe. Hence they reject all the determinations of the Orthodox Counsels, condemning the heresies of Arrius, Eutiches, Macedonius, Apollinaris, Sabelli●, Samosate●us, Pelagius, and all the Oxthodox Confessions of the reformed Churches. Secondly, also upon these grounds they allege in their Apology c Apolog. Rem●str. fol. 6. There be few things to be believes, that every sect may be the true Church, so they believe some few Articles not controverted amongst Christians, such as these, Th● there is a God, and that the Word of God is true, etc. Thirdly, they will not condemn the Macedonians, Arrians, Anti-trinitar●●, Pelagians, or others, of fundamental heresies. Fourthly, that one Church of Christians may be made up of Papists, Protestants, Anabaptists, Macedonians, Sabellians, etc. and all sects so they lead a good life, according to the few Articles necessary to salvation, may be saved, and all may be saved of any sect or Religion. Fifthly, that to swear Declarations, Confessions, Canons of Orthodox Counsels, is to take away the liberty of prophesying and growing in the knowledge of the Word of God, and the praying for grace and light of the holy Spirit for the right meaning of God's Word. Sixthly, that Athanasius spoke amiss, when he said of the Creed, that it was to be believed of every one who is to be saved, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, and the same is the doctrine of the Socinians, who do in all these oppose all Confessions of Faith, and all Orthodox Decisions, Canons, and determinations of Sinods. So a Socinus Respon. & Resp. & Volani pag. 2 22. Socinus rejecteth all Synods, all Confessions and Decisions even of the Church universal. So b Smalcius refut. lib. de error. Arr. au. 1. c. 1. f. 6. Smalcius calls it a rejecting of the Word of God. And c Nicolaid. in resut. tract. de Ecclesia c. 9 pag. 75. Theol. Nico●aides saith, That it is enough to know things absolutely necessary for salvation; and that the Church's determination cannot remove errors and heresies. Our brethens first Argument against a national Covenant ●, d Quest. 28 If the doctrine contained in your platform of Confession swarve from the Scriptures, than the imposing thereof is so far unlawful; if the doctrine be according to Scripture, the platform is ●eedlesse, the Scripture being sufficient. Ans. 1. This is the argument of Arminians, Episcopius saith, e Episc●pius disp. 32. thes. 2. and expressly f Smalcius loc. cit. Smalcius, Qui vnlt sensum scripturae ab il●s (confessionibus) peti, tacitè deserit scripta Apostolica, & traditiones humanas commendat. And therefore such decisions are ●ay the g Remonst. Apol. f. 29. Remonstrantes) Pests Ecclesiarum & regni An●christi, idest, tyrannidis fulcra & tibicines. Secondly, this Argument may be as well propounded against the preaching of the Word, all printed Sermons, Commentaries, and interpretation of Scripture, as against a Confession: For if the doctrine in Sermons be not agreeable to Scripture, then in so far as Ministers commend and command it to their hearers, it is unlawful; if it be agreeable to the Scripture, it is needless, the Scriptures (saith the Socinian Smalcius) are sufficient. Our brethren answer, Preaching is an ordinance of God, but a ●atforme of confession is not an ordinance of God. Answ. A platform, as it is conceived, in such a stile, method, and characters, and words, is a humane ordinance, Tali ●rie & ordine, and so is preaching; but we swear to no platform in that consideration; but a platform according to the truth contained in it, in which sense only it is sworn unto, is the Word of God, as are systemes of Divinity, sermons printed and Preached, and so though preaching be an Ordinanced God, as it is, Rom. 10. 14. yet according to the words, expression, dialect method, or doctrine, it is an humane ordinance; and so the Argument is against preaching as against our platform. Our brethren's second Argument is▪ The Platform abridgeth Christian liberty, to try all things, and so though it be some means of unity, yet it is a dangerous hindrance of some verity, binding men to rest upon their former apprehensions, and knowledge, without libery to better their judgements. Ans. 1. This in stile of language and truth of words is the very argument of Arminian●. So in their a Remonstrant. apol. Hoc itaque fundamento se●el 〈◊〉 j●cto, semper in Ecclesia Christi sarta tecta man●●it libertas (〈◊〉 ●an-di) quâ sine periculo in formulas islas (●d est fidei confessiones) inquirere, iisque sine periculo contradicere licebit. Preface, and in their b Apol. Remonst. s 7. Theologiae ipsius ani ma suffocatur atque eliditur, ubi decisiones sunt, quibus constanter sirmiterque haerendum esl. Apology itself they say. All liberty of prophecing and disputing against the Orthodox faith is taken away, if men be tied and obliged to decisions and confessions of Churches, and Synods. Yea to make an end of controversies (saith c Episcop. disp. 32. Thes. 11. li●i ●m sinem facere circa Religionis capita (per confessones & cavones synodicos) aliter quam persuadendo, est tyrannidem invehere in Ecclesiam, l. C. Et libertiu● conscientiarum si non omnino toll●re, saltem vehementer astringere & ligare. Episcopius) otherways then by persuading, is to bring a tyranny into the Church of Jesus Christ, and wonderfully to bind, if not to take away liberty of consciences; So in their Apology they say, confessions and decisions of Synods imposed by Oath, and to be firmly believed ar● contrary to the prayers of Saints, where they pray, that God would teach them his starutes, and reveal his Law and Testimonies ●● them, and open their Eyes to behold the wonders of Gods Law. But the truth is, though these of Berea did well to try Paul's Doctrine, if it was consonant to the Scriptures, or not. Yet Paul's Doctrine was the determination apostolic of God's Spirit, to the which they were firmly to adhere, and their judgements are to be bettered, in graduali revelatione creditorum, ●●● revelatione plurium credendorum, in clear revelation of things revealed. For so the children of God are to grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour, 2 Pet. 3. 14. After Christ is once revealed: but not in believing in a new Christ, or in believing of points contrary to the confession of faith. The Argument presupposeth the Doctrine of the Arminians, that there be a number of points in our confession, of which we have no certainty of faith, that they are God's truth, but are things controverted, and, being not fundamental points, may be holden, or we may forsake them, as false, after better information. Which indeed maketh our faith of God's Word, ●o full persuasion, but as the learned professors of Leyden d Censure declare▪ profess, Leyd. in praefa. Fides ●orari●, vel menstrua stc erit. say, a faith of an hour, or a month, or a year, which we may ●ast away, the next year. And this is to deny all confessions and points of truth, with pretence that the Spirit hath revealed new truth: but how are these new revealed truths (the Revelation whereof we obtain by prayer) rather works of the spirit of truth; then the former points which we retract? No man by this can be rooted and built in the faith, of any thing, except in the faith of things simply fundamental. By which means all points at least many of them betwixt us and Papists, Arminia●, Macedonians, Sabellians, Arrians, Anabap●tiste, are matters reconcileable; and either side may be holden, without hazard of salvation. Neither is this definition of confessions any tyranny. Because confessions are to be believed, in so far, as they are agreeable to God's Word, and lay upon us an obligation secondary only, yet are they not so loose, as that we may leap from points of faith, and make the doctrine of faith arena gladiatoria a fencing field for Gamesters and Fencers. The material object of our faith, and the secondary ground and foundation thereof, may be very well, and is, God's Word; primary is preaching, confessions, Creeds, Symbols, which are not serie & ordine Scripturae: and yet have we certainty of Divine faith in these things, because the formal object is, because God so saith in hi● Scripture, and we believe these with certainty of Divine Faith, under this reduplication, because the Lord hath spoken these quoad sensum, in true meaning, though not in illâ scrie & ordine; But more of this hereafter. CHAP. 6. SECT. 6. Touching Officers and their election. OUr Author laboureth to prove that Pastors and Doctors are different Officers, which we will not much improves, but if the meaning be, that they are inconsistent, in one man person, we are against him. 1. Because the Apostles in their own persons, and in feeding the flock, 2 Tim. 3. doth both under the name of Overseers and Bishops, and exercised both, as they could, according as they did find the auditory. 2. Because the formal objects the informing of the judgement, and exhorting are not so different, as that they should be imcompatible, for if God give them gifts both for the Doctor's Chair, and the pastors Pulpit, as he often doth, what should hinder but the Church may call one and the same man, to both the Pastor and the Doctor's Chair, as he is able to, overtake both. Author. 1. Reas. 1 Cor. 12. 8. To one is given a word of wisdom's (for direction of practice,) to another a word of knowledge (for direction of judgement.) Ans. This proveth they be different gifts and Offices, yet not that they are incompatible in one person, as one may have both gifts given unto him, as is clear by experience. 2 Reas. Author ib. He speaketh of divers members of the Church, as of divers members of the natural body, v. 4. 5. All the members have not one Office, it is the action of the Tongue to speak, not to see. Ans. The comparison holdeth not in all. The eye cannot hear, the ear cannot see, yet the pastor may both see as pastor, and hear and delate to the Church, as the Church's ear, the manners of the scandalous. 3. Reas. Author, If the Apostle speak of several exercises of several gifts, but both coincident to the same person or Church office; why then doth he command the Teacher to wait on teaching, and the Exhorter upon exhorting? One who hath a gift of giving Alms, and showing mercy, is not commanded to wait upon Alms giving, unless it be his office, as well as his gift. Ans. It is not fit that the Doctor should attend the pastoral duties, except he be a pastor also, and have both gift and office, but having gifts for both, he may attend both, as the Church calleth him to both. Author. Teaching and exhorting flow from several gifts, and they are seldom found in one in eminency. Ans. Then where they are found in one in eminency (as sometimes they are) either hath God given a Talon, for no use, which is against the Wisdom of God's dispensation, or then he who hath gifts for both, may discharge both, as he may and can through time and strength of body. But we contend not with our brethren in this, seeing they confess, he that is gifted for both, may attend both. CHAP. 7. SECT. 7. Of Ruling Elders. WE subscribe willingly to what our Author saith, for the Ruling Elders. office of ruling Elders in the Church. For Paul, Rom. 12. 8. from four principal acts requisite in Christ's house and body, v. 6, 7, 8. Teaching, Exhorting, Giving of Alms, R●ling, maketh four ordinary officers, Teachers, Pastors, Deacons and Elders. Opposite to the office of ruling Elders, object, that by Rulers may be understood, Governors of Families. Ans. Families as they are such, are not Churches, but parts of the Church, and clear it is that the Apostle Speaketh of Christ's Body, the Church in that place. 5. As we have many members in one body, etc. They Object that Paul speaketh of several gifts, not of public Offices in the Church, for he speaketh of all the power and actions, of all the members of the Body of Christ; now the offices alone are not the body, but all the multitude of believers. Ans. This cannot well be answered, by these, who make all the believers governor's, and a generation of Kings and Teachers: because it is expressly said, v. 4. all members have not the same office. Ergo, they are not all to attend ruling, and to rule with diligence. 2. 〈◊〉 is false that he speaketh not of Officers, and public Officer. He who speaketh of reigning doth indeed speak of a King, as he who speaketh of exhorting which is the specific act of a pastor, speaketh of a pastor. The place, ●1 Cor. 12. 28. 29. Is clear for Ruling Elders: but some say, that governor's are but arhiters, which Paul biddeth the Corinthians set up in the Church for deciding of civil controversies. 2. Cor. 6. that they go not to Law one against another▪ before heathen Judges. Ans. Paul commandeth to obey Judges, but never to set up a new order of Judges in their room. 2. These arbitees we●● not governor's to command, but rather faithful Christians to counsel, and remove controversies, or Christian reconcilers to hinder them to go to the Law, one with another before infi●●● judges. 3. The Apostle is speaking here of such Officers as Christ hath set in the Church, as the Church and Kingdom of Christ, but these civil arbitrators, are no Church-Officers, ●● Tim. 5. 17. The Elders who rule well are worthy of double honour, etc. This place speaketh clear for ruling Elders. The adversaries say: here are meant Deacons to whom are allowed stipends, for either here, or elsewhere wages are allowed for Deacons. Answ. 1. Paul would not speak so honourably of Deacons, as to allow them the worth of a double honourable reward. Yea Gods Word purteth the Deacons out of the roll of Rulers and governor's in God's house, as having nothing to do by Acts 6. v. 2. their office to labour in the Word and Prayer, but are in God's wisdom set lower to attend Tables, nor doth the word call them Elders, or 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in relation to the Church but only in relation to their own family and house. 2 Tim. 3. 12. their office is an office of mere service of Tables. 2. He is a labouring Elder worthy of wages, that the Apostle speaketh of here, as, v. 18. The Deaconship being to receive the mercy and charity, which is alms, and not debt, cannot be such an office as taketh up the whole man, so as he must live upon the Church's charges. 3. Bilson a Bilson. de gube● nat. Eccles. c. 0. p. 179. a man partial in this cause, against the mind of all the ancients (saith Didoclavius b Didoclav. in altar Damascen. p. 918. giveth this interpetation. But it is seconded with no warrant of God's Word, for Governors and Deacons are made two species of officers, Rom. 12. 8. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 he who ruleth with diligence, and he who hath mercy with cheerfulness. And two opposite species are not predicated, the one of the other. And if well governing, Rom. 12. be ●ell teaching and diligent exhorting, all are confounded in that Text, where the Apostle marshalleth the officers and their several exercises so accurately. Nor can he mean here Bishops so old that they are not now able to labour in the word and doctrine, for than pastor's for their age and inability to preach, should because of their age and infirmity, deserve less honour and reward, than the younger who are able to labour in the word and doctrine. This is cross to the sift Commandment, which addeth honour and double honour to age, and grey hairs, being found in the way of righteousness. 2. Against Justice, that because years and pains in God's Service, hath made them aged, for that they are to have less honour and reward: whereas they deserve the double; rather than that the younger should be preferred to them. Nor. 3. Can the Apostles meaning be, that these who rule well that lead an exemplarily holy life, are worthy of honour, especially painful preachers. Because 1. A person is never called a labourer, and worthy of hire, as the Ox that treadeth out the Corn, because of holiness of life, especially the Church ●s not to give stipend to a pastor, for his holy life. 2. Their life should be exemplarily holy, who did not labour in the word and doctrine, that is, we have a pastor passing holy in his life, but he cannot preach, or keepeth an ill conscience in his calling, because he is lazy and a loiterer in preaching. 3. What Word of God, or dialect in the word expresseth a holy life, by well governing, for a holy life is the sanctity of man's conversation be he a private, or a public man. But to govern well, is the paraphrase of a good Governor and officer, in the Greek tongue or any other Language. Nor. 4. Can the Apostle understand by labourers in the Word and Doctrine (as Bilson a Bilson. de gubern. p. 183. saith) such as w●nt through the Earth, and made journeys, as Apostles and Evangelists did, to plant visit and confirm Churches, and by these who govern well, such as labour indeed in the Word and Doctrine, but are fixed to a certain place. I answer, Then the well ruling Elders are not labourers in the Word and Doctrine; for out of Question one of the species of Elders here mentioned, do not labour in Word and Doctrine at all. But by this interpretation, both labour in the Word and Doctrine; but the one in a fixed place, the other by Apostolic journeys through the World. And the object of one of these Offices, to wit, the Word and Doctrine differenceth the one from the other, whose object must be not the Word and Doctrine; for word and Doctrine need not to be governed, but the Church, and persons in Church-state need to be governed. 2. There is no warrant of the Word, that to labour in the Word is proper to the Apostles and Evangelists, journeying through the World, seeing (as a Didoclavius altar. Damascen. p. 921. Didoclavius observeth●) the same word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, is ascribed to those who in a fixed place labour, 1 Thes. 5. 12, 13. Who labour amongst you. Yea, and it is taken for any travel of mind or body in the Word. 3. He is not here to deny, nor can the Apostle deny, but travelling Apostles and Evangelists did govern well, especially in planting Elders in every Church, and governing the planted Churches, but he cannot speak of travelling to the wearying of the body: when the object of travelling is expressed, to wit, (in Word and Doctrine) which object is not given to the well ruling Elder. A more special consideration of Ruling Elders, Deacons, and Widows. 1 Tim. 5. 17. AFter the Apostle hath spoken of Widows, and their service in the Church, he passeth from them to speak of excellenter Officers, to wit, of the ruling and the teaching Elders. There be many interpretations (say the opposers of ruling Elders) given upon this place; and therefore it is hard to build a new Church-officer on a Text so obnoxious to various debates. Answ. This would be concludent in part, if the nature of the Text were the native seminary of these various interpretations; but most of these debates arise from the wits of parties interressed in the question, such as Papists, Prelates, or deniers of all Church-government. But I provoke to all the Fathers, especially to chrysostom and the Greek Fathers, who have expounded the place, if any ever did deny but this place holdeth forth two sorts of Elders, though I grant they vary concerning the Elders, which labour not in the word and doctrine. And this interpretation, Elders who rule well are worthy of double honour, especially 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, id est, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, because, or upon this consideration and respect, that they labour in the word and doctrine, was never known till of late. But we desire these five circumstances in the Text to be considered; for we build not our interpretation on any one, or two, or three of them, but we desire they may be looked on copulatively; for I confess a participle being attributum, or quasi attributum, though doubled or multiplied, doth not multiply subjects, because two, six, an hundred attributes may agree to one subject; and the Scripture and Greek language can well bear this. As Col. 2. 5. I am present with you in the spirit, (〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉) rejoicing and beholding your order. One Paul only did both rejoice and behold. And 2 Pet. 3. 11. What manner of persons ought we to be, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, looking for and hastening unto the coming of the day of God. Here is no multiplying of persons. 2. I confess also, that two articles 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, or 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, do not multiply subjects, or make a distinction of divers sorts of persons. As Revel. 2. 1. These things saith he, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, it is one and the same Jesus who holdeth the seven Stars in his right hand, and who walketh in the midst of the Golden Candlesticks. But we desire that the confluence of these five may be looked unto: as 1. there is a genus, a general attribute, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, Elders; and this agreeth both to well ruling Elders, and to those which labour in the word and doctrine. 2. There be here two participles, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. 3. Two articles, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. 4. Two species, two kinds of Elders, under the general attribute of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. As the one species or kind is, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, such Elders as rule well; and the other kind of Elders be 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, such as labour in the Word, as Pastors; and in Doctrine, as Doct●rs. And five, which is most considerable, here be two Participles, two Articles, two special Elders divided and separated 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, by the discretive particle 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. And I provoke to all the Authors of the Greek Language, Demost●enes, Isocrates, Aristophanes, Pindarus, etc. to the Septuagint in the Old Testament, to the whole New Testament for one parallel place, where one and the same subject or kind is so expressed, except you play foul play to the Text: also that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is a particle of discretion and multiplication of divers kinds, to me is clear, ●● Ti●us 1. vers. 11. There ●● many unruly and vain talkers, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, especially those of the Circumcision, if 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the particle (especially) do not divide two sorts of vain talkers, some vain talkers of the Circumcision, and some vain talkers not of the Circumcision; then must this particle conjoin them, and make no vain talkers, save only these of the circumcision; and Paul shall say then, there be many unruly and vain talking persons of the circumcision, but especially those of the circumcision; which nonsense is not to be ascribed to the spirit of God, so 1 Tim. 4. 10. Who is the Saviour of all men, especially of believers, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. It 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 do not infer that Christ is the Saviour of some who believe, and in a general sense a Saviour of some who believe not; then must Christ bestow one and the same salvation on all men, and also on believers, which neither Arminians nor common sense can affirm, 1 Tim. 5. 8. He who provideth not for his olune, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, especially for those of his own house. If it be not required that a believer provide for two sorts, to wit, these of his family, children and servants in an especial manner; and for friends also, who are not of his own house; then will Paul have the believer to provide for none but for his own house, which doth belie the Text, which saith, he must provide for all his own, and in a special manner for his own house; now if he be to provide for them, for this respect because they are of his own house, then by this Text he is not to provide for his brethren, sisters, and blood-friends, because they are not of his own as members of his house, or his own, Gal. 6. 10. Let us do good to all, but especially, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to those who are of the household of faith. Ergo, we are to do good to some who are of the household of faith, and to some who are not of the household of faith; except you say the Text doth bear only, that we are to do good to none, save only to those who are of the household of faith, which is nonsense, Phil. 4. 22. All the Saints, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, salute you, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 especially those of Caesar's house. Hence two sorts of Saints saluted the Philippians, some Saints of Caesar's house, and some not of Caesar's house; this you must say if you will not have the Text to bear either that no Saints did salute the Philippians, save only the Saints of Caesar's house, contrary to sense; for the Text saith, All the Saints (here with me at Rome) salute you. Otherways you must say, that the reason and motive why the Saints saluted the Philippians, was because they were Saints of Caesar's house, as you say, the special cause and respect why the well ruling Pastor is worthy of double honour, is because he laboureth in the Word and ' Doctrine; for so you expound it. Now this is two ways false, for 1. this can be no respect and cause why all the Saints saluted the Philippians, except all the Saints which did salute them were only the Saints of Caesar's house; and so both the argument should be false, and the conclusion false, for they were not all of Caesar's house who saluted the Philippians. Nor 2. was this the reason why they did salute them; for the Saints did salute the Philippians upon this ground of Christian relation, because they were Saints, and loved one another in Christ, and not upon this civil and common consideration, because they were Caesar's Domestickes, and Courtiers with the Emperor. So a Tim. 4. 13. Bring with thee the cloak which I left at Troas, and books, but 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 especially the parchments. And thus do also the Hebrews speak, Prov. 11. 31. Retribution shall be made to the just, far more to the wicked. Here be clearly two sorts of retributions, and two kinds of persons which are recompensed. And Prov. 17. 7. The 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Prov. 21. v. 27. li●s of honour are not seemly for a fool, much less is falsity to a liberal man, or to a Prince. I know these examples do not every way come home to our point, but they prove that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is to the Hebrews a note of discretion; as also, ● Psalm. 31. v. 11. is even as 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is to the greeks. It is true, where a genus and a species, a general and a special under that are set down, (for as much as genus & species non faci●nt numerism) there is no need that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 or the particle (especially) should be as a note of dicretion or multiplication. As if (I should say, a judge is to be honoured, but especially judging righteously,) I should not infer that there are two sorts of Judges; but the case is not so here, because two species are expressly set down, to wit, those who rule well, and those who labour in the Word and Doctrine. And if I should say, (a judge judging righteously for all, is worthy of much honour, especially he that judgeth righteously for the Widow and the Orphan) I should in this hold forth, either two sorts of righteous Judges, or then I should say no other, but he who judgeth righteously for a●●, is to be honoured, especially he who judgeth righteously for these, and these comprehended under this (all.) Thirdly, I should in that also say that there be two things, though not two sorts of judges, worthy of much honour, to wit, the office of a judge, and his equal and unpartial judging are both worthy of double honour. But Paul is not here allowing honour to the office in abstracto, and in a general notion, but to the officer in specie and in concreto, who doth rule well, and labour in the word and doctrine. Object. 2. But Paul doth here understand by him that ruleth well, the civil Magistrate. Answ. When Paul is here speaking of the Oeconomy of God's house, it is not consonant to the Text, that he would instruct Timothy of the wages due to the Emperor Nero, and yoice the Emperor in one verse, with the Pastor and the Doctor labouring in the word and doctrine, and prove from the Law that the mouth of Nero should not be muzzled. Nor doth the Word give this word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, to Magistrates, but some higher styles, calling them 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, Tit. 3. 1. Principalities and powers, Rom. 13. 1. Secondly, this Text would prove that double wages were due to Paul above Nero the Emperor, and that Pastors are more to be honoured then Emperors and Kings. Thirdly, the Text speaks clearly of two parallel species of Bilson de Guber. c. 10. p. 179. Didoclavius Altar. Damascen. p. 920. Elders in the Church, but the Magistrate is no parallel line with preaching Elders. Object. 3. By those who rule well, are understood Deacons, who take care of the poor. Answ. Didoclavius observeth, that Deacons are never called Rulers, but distinguished from them, Rom. 12. 8. Secondly, the well ruling here taketh up the half of the Pastor's Office, and all that belongeth thereunto, except labouring in the word and doctrine; as to receive accusations against an Elder, to judge and govern with the Pastor, to visit the sick, to exhort and rebuse in a judicial way; but to serve Tables, and to take care of the poor only, is the least and most inferior part of well-governing of God's house, and is but a care for their bodies: Whereas to rule well, is an Ecclesiastical Magistracy, to go in and out before God's people, to watch for their souls, as those which must give an account, Hebr. 13. 17. 1 Thess. 5. 12. The Deacon careth for the body only, and the Deacon, that Bilson and others would have with him, is neither in this place, nor in all God's Word, as we shall hear. O●. 4. By these who rule well, are understord, Bishops, who for age, cannot preach yet rule well. Ans. Surely these who have laboured in the Word and Doctrine, and spent their strength in painful preaching, and now, in old age, rule well, cannot in reason be thought worthy of less honour and wages, then preaching Elders, but above them, as emeriti milites are not to be degraded: and if they have never laboured in the Word and Doctrine, they being Bishops, by office, must be dumb dogs, and worthy of no honour at all. 2. They cannot rule well, as Pastors, and yet be dumb, and not labour in the word. 3. The Text speaketh not of Elders, aetate, by age, but of Elders, Officio, by office, who labour, as workmen in a vineyard, v. 18. Ob. 5. By ruling well he meaneth a holy life, so as he meaneth not only that Pastors should live holily, but also preach painfully. Answ. Didoclavius answereth, that then all that live holily, should have stipend, as workmen; and certainly if Paul had spoken nothing of these who labour in the word and Doctrine, yet the Text doth hold forth that these who rule well, and do not labour in the Word and Doctrine are worthy of honour; for the comparative here, or superlative degree, doth well infer the positive degree. But 1. Ministers shall be worthy of honour, though they preach not. 2. The arguments which I brought, to prove, and that undeniably, that there be two sorts of Elders, in the Text fight against this sense, which inferreth that their is but one sort of preaching Elders here, to whom double honour is due, for two respects, to wit, holiness of life, and painful preaching. 3. Holiness of life in all God's Word, is never expressed by well governing, which is a work of a public Church-officer, as is clear. Rom. 12. 8. 1 Thess. 5. 12. 13. holiness of life is common to all private Christians, yea and to women, who cannot rule, nor rule well. Ob. 6. The Rulers here ought to have wages, as workmen, but your Elders have no wages. Ergo, your Elders are not in this Text. Answ. That is not concluded, which is in question; for the assumption should be, but your Elders ought to have no wages, and are worthy of no honour,) and the assumption is only de facto, (they have none) 2. This argument might prove that a noble man, called to be a Minister, if he should take no stipend, were not a lawful Minister; and Paul then was no lawful pastor, at Corinth, because he refused stipend; but stipend is due to both Pastor and Elder, and in the case of scandal, it is due to neither of them, hic & hunc. Ob. 7. If there be two sorts of Elders here, there must be two sorts of Bishops, for Presbyter and Bishop are synonyma, and one and the same, as is clear, Tit. 1. 6, 7. Acts 20. 17. They are called Elders, and v. 28. Bishops. But we cannot admit of two sorts of Bishops: some to rule, and some to preach, that were Antichristian. Answ. Though there be two sort of Elders here, it doth not follow that there be two sorts of Bishops: and it is not proved because Elder and Bishop are not proved to be synonyma from the alleged places, genus & species, as a living Creature and a man are not synonyma, but have different definitions. Gladius & ensis have the same definitions, as a man and a discoursing creature are synonyma. An Elder is a general, and a Bishop a sort of Elder, and an Apostle is an Elder, and so Peter termeth himself, 1 Pet. 5. 1. an Elder: ●u● Divines say that a preaching Elder, and a Bishop are synonyma, one and the same, and synonyma non faciunt mum●rum, as Gladius & Ensis: but they never taught that an Elder in general and a Bishop, are synonyma and the same, nor do the places, Acts 20. Tit. 1. prove it; for if they be all preaching Elders, to whom Paul preached at Ephesus, Acts 20. as the Text seemeth to make them, Acts 20, 28, 29. then the Elders that Paul called for v. 17. are preaching Elders, and the same with Bishops v. 28. and Tit. 1. Paul willeth Titus to ordain Elders, that is, both preaching & ruling Elders, and there he giveth an instance in preaching Elders, or Bishops, and sheweth what sort of men Bishops should be. 2. If there be two sorts of Elders, 1 Tim. 5. 17. than should there be two sorts of Bishops; I distinguish the proposition, then are there two sorts of preaching Bishops, I deny the proposition in this sense, but if the meaning be, there be two species of Bishops, or Overseers, one ruling Overseers, and another preaching Bishops, we shall not contend for the word, if we agree upon the thing, though I much doubt, if the ruling Elder in the Scripture, come under the name of Bishop or 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. 3. This objection falleth under the stroke of the arguments proving that there be two sorts of Elders in this Text, and how they can be answered, I know not. Ob. 8. That office is not in Scripture, whose Characters, qualities, and notes are not specified in Scripture, as the Characters of a Deacon are, 1 Tim. 3. and of a Bishop ibid. But the Characters, qualites and notes of a ruling Elder are not in the Scripture, Ergo, etc. Answ. 1. I deny the major proposition; for then, because the Scripture saith not, an Apostle should be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, and thus and thus, and an Evangelist should be thus and thus, and a prophet should be thus and thus qualified, therefore Apostles, Evangelists, Prophets, are not in Scripture. It is true these were but temporal offices, yet it is enough to take off and break the argument, for these temporary offices, must be no less warranted, by the word, except they be unlawful, than the offices that are of perpetual endurance. 2. I distinguish the major proposition, That office is not in Scripture, whose characters are not in Scripture, neither in one particular place, expressly and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, it is not true; for baptism: in no one place is so expressly set down in Scripture, from all its Characters in particular, as is the Supper of the Lord, which is described, Mat. 26. Luk. 22. Mark. 14. 1 Cor. 11. in the Elements, sacred actions, prayer, consecration, words of institution, efficient, form, end, gesture, etc. Yet is baptism for that not excluded from the class and number of God's ordinances and seals, or, that office is not in Scripture whose Characters are not in Scripture, nether in divers places of Scripture, nor by good consequence, and lawful analogy with other its fellow offices, that I yield willingy: but now the assumption is false: for as baptism by analogy is described in many of its Characters, as prayer, consecration of the Elements, end etc. when the Supper of the Lord is described, making a just proportion betwixt baptism and the other Sacrament, and by other places of Scripture, so is the ruling Elder in his characters described; when the Bishop his fellow-officer is described. 3. The assumption also is false; for the ruling Elder is described out of this Text. 1. negatively, that hence is gathered, by strong consequence, as is said, that he is an Elder who laboureth not in the Word and Doctrine. 2. He is described affirmatively, for an office is sufficiently described, when the specific acts thereof are set down, as a man is described when we say, he is a Creature who doth discourse, and make use of Reason; so is this Elder described, when we say it is his office to rule well, 1 Tim. 5. 17. he is a 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, and a government which Christ hath 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 instituted in the body, 1 Cor. 12. 28. and he is Rom. 12. 4. an Organ and member of Christ's body, whose office it is to rule, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 with diligence, Rom. 12, 8. Ob. 9 But it is but a general, that he rule, we have not these wherein the particulars of his ruling, consist. Ans. If this be strong, you have not, 1 Tim. 3. the particulars of the pastoral teaching, but only the generals, a Bishop must be apt to teach. Yet in other places we have the particulars, a● instructing, rebuking, confuting, convincing; so what ever the Scripture saith of the preaching Elders ruling, that same is saith of the ruling Elders ruling, seeing the ruling Elder is the assistant officer to help the preaching Elder, and both of them with the Doctor are to rule the House of God. Ob. 10. But if ruling be the specific and essential note of the ruling Elder, he cannot be a special officer different from the preaching Elder, for what is essential to one species cannot agree to another, and what constituteth one species, doth not agree to another. Answ. This connexion may well be denied, and it is said well by one; The ruling Elder solùm regit, doth only govern, sed non solus regit, but he doth not govern his alone, but with the Pastor and Doctor. From these things I infer that as this is not a good consequence, Mat. 26. Luk. 22. Mark. 14. the Spirit of God doth set down the Lords Supper in all its materials, and passeth over Baptism in silence, and goeth to another subject; Ergo, Baptism is not the other Sacrament of the New Testament so neither is this a good consequence, (Paul, 1 Tim. 3. Describeth the Bishop, and over skippeth the ruling Elder, passing to the Deacon; Ergo, the ruling Elder is not an Ordinance of God) for while he describeth the Bishop, he teacheth what an one, both the Doctor, and ruling Elder should be, by clear analogy, and it had been superfluous for the Holy Ghost to say more, than he doth. And by this we may answer to what is tenthly objected, The ruling Elder is omitted in Christ's roll, Eph. 4. 11. Ergo, there is no such officer. Answ. It followeth in no sort negatively, from one particular place of Scripture, Rev. 1. It is said only God hath made us Kings and Priests unto God; Ergo, he hath not made us Prophets also, the contrary is, Esai. 54. 13. joh. 6. 45. so because, It is life eternal to know the Father, and the Son, Joh. 17. Socinians collect; Erge, the holy spirit is not God, because no mention is made of him, in this place. 2. In this place Paul ennumerateth offices necessary rather for planting Churches, then for ruling Churches already constituted and planted: Miracles and Tongues are ad benè esse; Elders and Deacons are not named here, because they are for the leading on of the Church, and the body already set up in a visible frame, and therefore reckoned out, Rom. 12. 4. 8. 1 Cor. 12. 28. and consider, I pray you, how uncertain and lubric a way it is to pin God's Spirit, and to fetter him to any one place in his enumerations, Behold, Rom. 12. 8▪ all the ordinary officers are expressed, and yet Apostles, Evangelists, Miracles, Tongues are omitted, all which are ennumerated, 1 Cor. 12 28, 29. yet are specific acts of Prophets, Teachers omitted, 1 Cor. 12. at least only spoken of in general under the notion of hearing, seeing, walking, and Rom. 12. they be more particularly set down. And 1. Tim. 3. Phil. 1. 1. only Bishops and Deacons are mentioned, and governments, and Elders ruling well ●mitted; and also all the extraordinary officers are omitted, and yet mentioned, 1 Cor. 12. 18, 29. and Miracles, Tongues, Deacons, Governments are omitted, Eph. 4. 11. and, 1 Tim. 5. 17. Preachers, Rulers, Doctors are expressed, Deacons and extraordinary officers, Apostles, Evangelists, etc. passed over in silence: Ob. 11. The Keys are not given to this ruling Elder, Ergo, he is no lawful officer: the antecedent is proved, the keys of jurisdiction, because they can operate nothing, but by the Key of knowledge, cannot be given to this new officer, now the key of knowledge is given only to the preaching Elder. Ans. All dependeth upon this false proposition; To these only are the keys of jurisdiction, and power of binding and losing given, to whom the keys of knowledge are given,) for though the one key work nothing without the other, yet the proposition is not from this made good, for the key of knowledge, and the power of pastoral preaching is given, uni subjectiuè, non unitati nisi objectiuè, to one man as to the subject, and to the Church, for her salvation and good, as for the end and object; and the Pastor being once ordained a Pastor, may use these Keys, quoad specificationem independently, for he may preach mercy and wrath, not waiting the Church's suffrages, Et potestas clavium quoad jurisdictionem data ●st ecclesiae & subjectiuè & objectiuè, & data est non uni, sed unitati: but the power of the keys, in censures, for binding and losing is given to no one mortal man, but to the Church, both as to the subject, and the object. I mean the Ministerial Church; and not one man Pastor, Pope, o● prelate may use the Keys, the Church hath them, and can only validly use them. Ob. 12. But how is it proved that Ruling Elders are of divine institution? Ans. God hath placed, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, Ruling Elders in the body, as is said, 1 Cor. 12. 28. and this is, Rom. 12. 4. compared with v. 8. an Office that Christ hath appointed, and as these places prove the exhorter or pastor to be of Divine institution, and the Apostle, Teacher, Prophet, 1 Cor. 12. 28. and the Elder who laboureth in the Word and Doctrine, to be an instituted workman worthy of wages, 1 Tim. 5. 17, 18. So must they prove the man who ruleth well, and with diligence, to be of divine appointment. Ob. 13. But the ruling in diligence, Rom. 12. 8. and the governments, 1 Cor. 12. 28. are generals, and so cannot constitute a special office, in the body: for it is against logic, that that which is general, and common to all the officers, can constitute a species, or a special kind: Answ. This obligeth the opponent, to teach, what is meant by governors, whether Magistrates, but these be not an office in Christ's Body as is here said, Rom. 12. 4. and 1 Cor. 12. 14, 15. or do they mean masters of families? but these be parts of heathen societies, as well as of Christian, and a Family as it is such, is not the Church. 3. Nor can he mean here of Preachers, for Rom. 12. 8. 1 Cor. 12. 28. the exhorter and the ruler with diligence, the Teacher, and Prophet, and governments are clearly differenced, as different organs of the body, Eye, Ear, Hand, Foot, 1 Cor. 12. 14, 15. Rom. 12. 4. nor (4) can they understand Rulers in general: for, a genus, a general doth not exist, or have actual subsistence, but in some determinnate species; as a living Creature doth not subsist but in man, or in some specific nature of Birds and Beasts: now God is said to place these governments in the body, 1 Cor. 12. 28. even as the Eye, and Ear and Hand are seated in the body, 1 Cor. 12. 16, 17, 18. Now as a general Eye, or an Organ in general is not placed in the body, but such a determinat Organ, an Eye, an Ear, an Hand, a Foot; so neither hath the wisdom of Christ appointed a governor in general, and left it to the Church's discretion to specify what this governor shall be, whether a Prelate, a Pastor, a ruling Elder: but as God hath not set Teachers in the body in general, but he hath placed such and such species, Apostles, not Popes, Evangelists, not Cardinals; so must he have determined such and such Governors, ruling Elders, rather than a certain Creature named a Diocesan prelate, an uncouth beast in the holy Scripture. A very Jesuit, Salmeron, saith, by the two Elders he meaneth, Salmeron in 1 Tim. 5. 17. disp. 15. Tom. 15. Ambrose in 1 Tim. Chrysost. hom. 15. Estius, comment. 1 Tim. 5. 1 Tim. 5. 17. (apertè sermonem esse de presbyteris & Episcopis) of Elders and Pastors, and with that of Ambrose, which we all know to be ruling Elders, who were out of use in the Church, by the negligence, or rather by the pride of preaching Elders, forte Doctorum d●sidiâ, aut magis superbiâ; and we are not to think, Chrysostom was ignorant of his mother Tongue, and he findeth 1 Tim. 5. 17. two sorts of Elders in this place, and a popish Expositor Estius, porrò manefeste Colligitur ex hac sententia, fuisse, etiam apostolorum tempore, quosdam in ecclesia presbyteros, qui & benè praeessent, & duplici honore digni essent, nec tamen labotarent in verbo & Doctrinâ, neque id hodierni sectarii negant; and all the heresy that he layeth on Calvin, in this point, is that Calvin maketh these lay-men; And Estius maketh a question what these Elders were, whether they be the Cardinals, which the pope hath, or the Canonical Elders, which their Bishops use as councillors in grave matters, or Elders which rule well, and labour not in the Word and Doctrine, such as were in the Apostles time, or rather such as did help the Bishops in offering sacrifice, and in administrating the Sacraments; or if they be such as rule the people, but cannot preach, such as Alipius and Val●rius were in Augustine's time; so Estius knoweth not what these Elders be, but inclineth to make them elders to the Apostles, in the administration of the Sacraments. Ob. 14. But Rom. 12. 8. the Apostle speaketh of divers gifts, as v. 6. having then gifts, differing according to the grace, that is given to us, whether prophecy, let us prophecy, etc. Ergo, the Apostle doth not speak of divers offices. 2. One and the same man may both teach, and exhort, and therefore Pastor and Doctor are not here differenced. 3. The Deacons office shall be here described, by the interjection of the ruling Elder, but the two acts of the deacon, which is to give with simplicity, and, to show mercy with cheerfulness, and which is an insolent order, therefore the Apostle doth not here ennumerate divers offices. Answ. There is no better consequence in this, to say, he speaketh of divers gifts; Ergo, he speaketh not of divers offices, then to say, he speaketh of divers faculties and habilities in the natural body, as of an hability of seeing, hearing; Ergo, he acknowledgeth not divers members with divers offices, as the Eye to see, the E●re to hear, yea the contrary is rather a good consequence; and the Text is clear that he speaketh of divers offices, v. 4. for as we have many members in one body, and all members have not the same office. So we being many, are one body, in Christ, and every one members, one of another. Yea the Text holdeth forth these five to us to be distinctly considered. 1. That the Church is one body organical, having divers members. 2. That there be divers gifts of the spirit in this body, as is clear, Rom. 12. v. 3. 4, 5. (3) That there be divers offices, and places and functions in this body, which the Apostle excellently divideth into two generals according to the necessities of the members of Christ's body. Now in general this necessity is two fold, one respecting the soul, and for this, he hath ordained, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 prophecy, and for the bodily necessity, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. Ministry and Service. v. 6. and v. 7. and these two having set down in abstracto, he cometh to divide them, in concreto, according to their several offices and functions, which be four in the Text. 1. The Teacher, or Doctor. v. 7. 2. The Exhorter, or Pastor. v. 8. 3. The ruler, or governing Elder. also ●. 8. 4. The Distributer, who is to show me ●● on the poor, or the Deacon also. v. 8. Then (4) the Apostle doth set down the several specific actions and operations of these offices, and that again two ways. 1. in general. 1. Prophesying. v. 6. 2. Ministering. v. 7. 2. He setteth down the operations and specific actions of the four offices in particular, as 1. Teaching, in the Doctor. v. 7. 2. Exhorting, in the pastor. v. 8. 3. Ruling in, the Elder. v. 8. 4. Distributing, and showing mercy, in the Deacon. v. 8. Then (5) he setteth down the manner and holy qualification of these operations, and exercises of their offices; and that also two ways. 1. In general. 2. In the four particulars in general. 1. In Prophesying; but how? according to the proportion of Faith v. 6. 2. Ministering, and how? By being given or addicted to Ministering v. 7. 2. He setteth them down in four particulars, as 1. The Doctor or Teacher, is to be in, or given to Teaching. v. 7. 2. The pastor, is to be in Exhorting, Sedulous and painful. v. 8. 3. The ruling Elder, to rule, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 with diligence. v. 8. 4. The Deacon is to distribute, and show mercy, on the Sick, poor, imprisoned, stranger, distracted, in simplicity, in Cheerfulness. v. 8. Also though it be true, that one and the same man may both teach and exhort, and the comparison of the natural body doth not in all things hold, for one member cannot both be the eye to see, and the ear to hear, but both are here a sort of eye to the Church; yet hath Christ made the Pastor and the Doctor different. (It is needless to dispute, if they differ in nature, and if it be a confounding of Christ's order, that one be both, when Christ hath given gifts for both to one man) for first, the Word of God doth difference them; secondly, we know that many have gifts to teach, who are but dull and weak to persuade and work upon the affection, as is observed amongst the Fathers. Augustine excelled in teaching and disputing, Chryostome in exhorting. Salmeron observeth, that there Thomas Aquinas was Salmeron comment. in Rome 12. v. 8. eminent in informing the understanding, and Bonaventura excellent for moving the affections. And many are fitted to work on the affections, as Pastors, who are not able to teach as Doctors in the Schools. So hath chrysostom and Theodoret observed upon these words, Rom. 12. 7, 8. Nor doth it move me much, that Paul speaketh twice in one verse of the Deacon, it is not unusual to the Spirit of God in divers Scriptures so to do, as Prov. 1. Prov. 2. Psal. 119. How dangerous it is to affirm, that all the Officers are not set down in God's Word, we may be taught by Papists, for Estius Estius come. in 1 Cor. 12. Idem come. in Ephes. c. 4. 11. Salmeron in 1 Cor. 12. 28. giveth a reason, why the Apostle setting down, 1 Cor. 12. 28. the Officers in God's house, hath omitted the Pope; he answereth, the Apostle is not here setting down the degrees of the Hirarchicall Order, for than he should have set down Bishops, Presbyters, Deacons, which be parts of that Order, but only he setteth down some chief members of the Church, endued with rare gifts, and commenting on Ephes. 4. he saith, The Pope is set down under the name of Pastors and Doctors, because he sendeth Pastors and Doctors to all the world; and this was the reason why the Prelate was reputed a Pastor, and the only Pastor, because though it was too base for him to preach; yet he preached in and through poor Presbyters whom he sent. And Salmeron moveth the question, why 1 Cor. 12. 28. the Pope, Cardinals, and patriarchs are omitted in this place; and we say, Why are Bishops, Archbishops, Primates, Metropolitans, Deans, Archdeacon's, Chancellors, Officials, etc. never once mentioned in the Word of God. But Salmeron answereth, 1. They are implicitly set down here, and under the name of helps, opitulations; Paul hath instituted Deans, Archdeans, and the four lesser orders. And what else do divers answer, who teach that government 1 Cor. 12. 28. is but a general; and the Church, in a prudential way, under this may substitute and introduce such and such species of governments as they shall find convenient, as ruling Elders, ruling Prelates, and such like. but I would gladly know why the Spirit of God hath particularly set down the last specified Officers, as 1 Cor. 12. 28. Apostles, under which are no species of Apostles, but only such individual persons, Mathias, Paul, etc. and hath also set down Pastors in specie, Doctors and Teachers in specie, Ephes. 4. 11. under which there be only such individual persons who are Pastors and Teachers, as John, Epaphroditus, Archippus, Thomas, etc. and there is no room left for the Church to subdivide Pastors or Doctors into such and such new species, as Popes, Cardinals, etc. and yet under the general of governments, many species and new kinds of governments in a prudential way may be brought in. If Christ have set down the particulars of Pastors, Prophets, Apostles, according to their last specified nature, why hath his wisdom not been as express and particular in all other offices necessary for feeding and governing the flock of Christ? a Pope, a Prelate, a Cardinal, an Official, would take as small room in print, and in Christ's Testament, as Apostle, Doctor, Pastor, though I grant they do take half so much more room in the State and Parliament. Of Deacons. WE conceive, according to God's Word Acts 6. that Deacons be of divine institution, because when some poor widows were neglected in the daily ministration, the Apostles appointed seven men of good report, and full of the holy Ghost, to take care of Tables and provide for the poor, that the Apostles might give themselves to the Word and Prayer. Object. 1. There is not one word of Deacons, Acts 6. not one word of the poverty of widows, and these seven were but civil curators and tutors of the widows, and not Church-officers, for any thing that can be collected from God's Word. Answ. The equivalent of a Deacon in name, is Acts 6. there are those who are not to preach the Word, but are to serve Tables, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and some did complain because their widows were neglected, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, if widows were neglected through the want of a daily Deaconry, the Text must insinuate a Deaconry, and a want of a Table to these widows. Secondly, it is unknown divinity, that the twelve Apostles in a Church-assembly do institute, and that with solemn prayer, and imposition of hands, officers merely civil to tutor widows. Thirdly, the daily ministration was the want of sustenance, as it is said, That certain women ministered to Christ of their Luke 8. 3. substance, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, Acts 20. 34. Yea yourselves do know that those hands have ministered to my necessities. And is it like that the Apostles were civil curators to widows before this time? Object. 2. It is evident from the Text that these Deacons were not of divine institution, but of a mere temporary erection, for the present necessity of the Church. First, it is said they were appointed, Acts 6. 1. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. Secondly, they were erected upon occasion of the multiplying of the disciples. Thirdly, upon occasion of the poverty of widows, and therefore when there be no poor, there is no need of Deacons, and so it is but an office of a temporary standing in the Church. Answ. These words (in those days) are not so much referred to the institution of Deacons, as to the order of the history. Secondly, to Satan's malice, who raised a schism in the Church, when the number of Disciples grew. And thirdly, are referred to the murmuring of the widows; and they do no more prove that Deacons are a temporary institution, and brought in, by the Church, in a prudential way for the Chuches present necessity, than the Lords Supper is concluded to be but a temporary and prudential institution of the Church, because it is said, In the night that jesus was betrayed, he took bread, etc. Secondly, the occasion of the multiplying of Disciples & the neglecting of the widows, doth not prove that Deacons are a prudential and temporary institution: for here I distinguish betwixt an occasion and a motive and cause; divers Ordinances of God have both these. As the occasion of writing the Epistle to Philamon, was the flight of Onesmus a fugitive servant from his master, and his willing mind to return to him again, and upon that occasion Paul did write to Philamon; but that will not prove that the Epistle to Philemon is but a prudential Letter, and obliging for a time, because the motive and cause why the holy Ghost would have it written, was, that it should be a part of Canonical Scripture, obliging to the second coming of Christ. The like I say of the Epistle to the Galathians, written upon occasion of seducing Teachers, who had bewitched the Galathians, and made them believe, they must be circumcised and keep the Law, if they would be justified in Christ: Yet hence is not proved, that the Epistle to the Galathians is but a prudential Letter, and not of divine and perpetual institution; for the cause and motive of writing was, that it might be a part of the Canon of faith. So also the Covenant of Grace and the Gospel was made upon this occasion, by reason that the first Covenant could not save us, Heb. 8. vers. 7. Rom. 8 2. 3. Gal. 3. 21, 22. is therefore (I pray you) the Covenant of grace but a temporary and a prudential piece? Upon the occasion of the death of Zelophead, who died in the wilderness without a male-child, whose name thereby was in danger to be delete and blotted out of Israel, the Lord maketh a general Law through all Israel, binding till the Messiah his coming, Numb. 27. 8. If a man die and have no son, then shall you cause his inheritance to pass unto his daughter; this was no prudential Law. I might allege infinite Ordinances in Scripture, the like to this. Yea, most of all the Ordinances of God are occasioned from our spiritual necessities; are they therefore but humane and prudential Statutes, that are only to endure for a time? I think, no. Ob. 3. But if the civil Magistrate had been a friend to the Church, Acts 6. his place had been to care for the poor, for the law of nature obligeth him to take care of the poor, therefore did a woman in the famine at the siege of Samaria cry, Help O King; and if this were done by Christian Magistrates, Pastors should be eased thereof, that they might give themselves to the Word and Prayer, and there should be no need of a divine positive institution of Deacons for this charge. Answ. That the godly Magistrate is to take care of the poor, as they are members of the Common wealth, I could easily grant. But this is not now in question; but whether, or not, the Church, as it is an Ecclesiastical society, should not have a treasure of the people's E●angelike free-will-offering for the necessity of the Saints, as Heb. 13. 16. 1 Cor. 16. 1, 2. 2 Cor. 9 5, 6, 7, 8, and concequently, whether or not Christ hath ordained, not the Pastors, but some officers besides, to attend this work? We affirm he hath provided for his poor members, even their bodily necessi ies. Secondly, if this be true, that there should be no Deacon but the Christian Magistrate, than were these seven Deacons but the Substitutes and Vicars of the Emperor and King. Now certainly, if Apostolic benediction and laying on of hands, in the wisdom of God was thought fit for the Vicars and Deputies of the Magistrates, it is like that beside the coronation of the Roman Emperor, the twelve Apostles ought to have blessed him with prayer, and separated him by laying on of hands for this Deaconry; for what Apostolic calling is necessary, for the temporary substitute is more necessary, and at least that same way necessary for the principal. But that civil Magistrates, ex officio, are to be separated for this Church-office so holden forth to us, 1 Tim. 3. 12. I can hardly believe. Thirdly, I see not what the Magistrate doth in his office, but he doth it as the Minister of God who beareth the sword, Rom. 13 4. and if he should compel to give alms, then should alms be a debt, and not an alms and free-will-offering. It is t●u●, there may intervene some coaction to cause every man to do his duty, and to force men to give to the poor; but then I say, that forcing with the sword should not be an act of a separated Church-officer, who, as such, useth no carnal weapons. Four●●ly, the law of nature may lead to a supporting of the poor, but that hindereth not but God may ordain it as a Church-duty, and appoint a Church-officer to collect the bounty of the Sain●●, 1 Cor. 16. 3. 5. I see not how the Apostle, 1 Tim. 3. should not hold forth his Cannons concerning a Deacon, to the King, if he ex officio be the Church-treasurer, but the Apostle doth match him with the Bishop, Acts 6. the appointing of the Deacon is not grounded Acts 6. upon the want of a Christian Magistrate, but on another ground, that the Apostles must attend a more necessary work, than Tables. Object. 4. But the occasion of appointing Deacons was to disburden the Pastor, who was to give himself wholly to preaching and praying; Ergo, at the first the Apostles and so also Pastors were Deacons; if therefore the poor be fewer than they were at jerusalem, Act. 6. where the Church did exceedingly multiply; this Office of Deaconry was to return to the Pastors, as its prime and native subject; and therefore is not essentially and primarily an Office separated from the Pastors Office. And if the poor cease to be at all, the Office ceaseth also. Ans. I cannot well deny but it is apparent from Act. 6. 4. that the Apostles themselves were once those who cared for the poor, but I deny that hence it follows in the case of fewer poor, that the Office can return to the Pastors as to the first subject, except you suppose the intervention of a divine institution to place it again in the Pastors; as the power of judging Israel was once in Samuel, but upon supposition that Saul was dead, that power cannot return back to Samuel except you suppose that God by his authority shall redeliver and translate it back again to Samuel. For seeing God by positive institution had turned the power of judging over from Samuel into the person of Saul, and changed the same into a regal and Kingly power, that same authority who changed the power must rechange it again, and place it in, and restore it to its first subject. 2. The fewness of poor; or no poor at all, cannot be supposed, Joh. 12. 8. for the poor you have always with you. And considering the afflictions of the Churches, the object of the Deacons giving and showing mercy, as it is Rom. 12. 8. cannot be wanting, as that the Church's fabric be kept in good frame, the poor, the captives of Christian Churches, the sick, the wounded, the stranger, the distracted be relieved, yea and the poor Saints of other Churches, 1 Cor. 16. be supported. 3. Not only because of the impossibility that Pastors cannot give both themselves to praying and the Word, and to the serving of Tables; but by reason of the wisdom of Christ in a positive Law, the Pastor cannot be the Deacon ex officie in any case. For 1. Christ hath made them distinct Offices, upon good grounds, Act. 6. 4. 2. The Apostle hath set down divers qualifications, for the Bishop, 1 Tim. 3. 1. and for the Deacon, V. 12, 13. And 3. the Pastor who is to give the whole man to the preaching of the Gospel, cannot entangle himself with Tables, 1 Tim. 4. 15. 2 Tim. 2. 3, 4, 5. if we should say nothing, that if there were need of Officers to take care of the poor, when there was such grace and love amongst the Saints and Apostles able and willing to acquit themselves toward the poor, and when all things were common Act. 2. 44, 45, 46, 47. Act. 4. 31. 32, 33, 34. far more now is the Office needful, when the love of many is waxen cold. Object. 5. But if there were a community of goods, and no man lacked any thing, Act. 5. 34. there were no poor at all, and so no need of Deacons. Answ. This is to carp at the wisdom of God, who appointed seven men to serve Tables; for justice might say, those who had nothing to give to the public treasury of the Church, should expect nothing thence, charity would say the contrary. Object. 6. Distribution of earthly goods is not such a thing, at requireth a spiritual Office; for money given by a Church-officer hath no spiritual influence on the poors necessity, more than money given by the Magistrate, or one who hath no Church-office. Answ. I deny the consequence: for then the Priests killing of Bullocks to God had no more influence, if we speak physically, than a Bullock killed by another man. Now the Church's bounty and grace, 1 Cor. 16. 3. being a spiritual offering to God, by virtue of Christ's institution, hath more in it then the common charity of an Heathen, if it were but for this, that the wisdom of God, in his Ordinance is to be considered; and if we speak physically, the Word of God hath no more influence when spoken by a Pastor in public, then when spoken by a private man; yet if we look to God's Ordinance, the one hath more assistance when it is spoken, than the other, caeter is paribus. Object. 7. The Office of a Deacon is not mentioned in the Word, and what should be his charge is scarcely holden forth in Scripture. Answ. The Scripture saith the contrary, 1 Tim. 3. 13. They that have used the Office of the Deacons well, etc. V. 8. Likewise must the Deacon be grave, Phil. 1. 1. 2. The Scripture holdeth forth to us, that he must take care that Widows and the poor be not neglected in the daily ministration, Act. 6. 1. and therefore must he serve Tables, v. 2. And 3. he must be appointed over this work, v. 3. and 4. look how far giving and showing mercy, and how far singleness of heart and cheerfulness in these things extend, as far must the office of the Deacon extend, hence all in poverty, want, captivity, bonds, sickness, are to be helped by him. Object. 8. But it would seem, that a Deacon hath a higher employment then to distribute goods, and that he is to preach, as Stephen and Philip did: for 1. they did choose men Act. 6. full of the Holy Ghost; now to be full of the holy Ghost is a requisite in a preacher, and is not required in a man to distribute money; yea these who are least esteemed in the Church, 1 Cor. 6. 4. may judge in things pertaining to this life, Ergo, they may suffice to distribute 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, things which belong to this life. Answ. To distribute in a civil and natural way requireth not a man full of the Holy Ghost, but to distribute in simplicity, and with the grace of heavenly cheerfulness, Rom. 12. 8. and with the qualities of a complete Deacon, 1 Tim. 3. 12, 13, 14. requireth the holy Ghost, though they may be good Deacons who are not full of the holy Ghost, but such were chosen, 1. because this was to be a rule to all ‛ Deacons to the World's end, and the rule should be as straight and perfect as can be. 2. Because there were choice of such men, as those in the Apostelike Church, and reason that God be served with the best of his own. 3. The Holy Ghost is required for sanctification, as well as for gifts of preaching, Luke 1. 15. Matth. 10. v. 20. 4. Stephen did no more ch. 7. in his Apology then any witnesses of Christ convened before Rulers may do who are obliged to be ready always to give an answer to every one who asketh them of the hope that is in them, with meekness and fear, 1 Pet. 3. 15. yea though it were a woman who yet may not preach, 1 Cor. 14. 34. Philip was an Evangelist. 5. The Apostle, 2 Cor. 6. 4. doth sharply check the Corinthians, for going to Law one with another, before heathen Judges, whereas the smallest amongst them might have supplied the bench of an heathen Judge in matters of this life, the loss whereof was nothing comparable to the great scandal they gave. But there is a greater grace required to the Church-distribution, and the official regulating of the conscience in a constant office of distribution, then in a transient and arbitrary act of deciding a matter of money. Object, 9 1 Tim. 3. 9 The Deacon must hold the mystery of the faith; Ergo, he must be able to preach. Answ. It followeth not, for there is a twofold holding of the mystery of faith: one for the preaching of sound doctrine recommended to Timothy, of this Paul doth not speak; there is another holding of faith for steadfast believers, and for an holy and blameless conversation; and therefore it is not said simply, holding the mystory of faith, but, holding the mystery of faith in a pure conscience. In which sense Christ saith to the Church of Pergamus, Rev. 2. 13. Thou holdest fast my name, and hast not denied my faith. And Paul saith of himself, 2 Tim. 4. 7. I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith. He meaneth not, that he kept so much of the knowledge of the sound doctrine of faith as made him fit for the ministry, and qualified him to teach, and 1 Tim. 1. 19 holding faith and a good conscience, which is meant of the grace of saving faith. But that the Deacon is not to preach is, clear, 1. because Paul clearly differenceth the Deacon from the preaching Elder, 1 Tim. 3. 1, 2, 12, 13. and requireth that the preaching Elder be apt to teach, but requireth not this of the Deacon, and Act. 6. they are made two Offices not consistent in one man; for if the Deacon must be a Teacher, he must either be a Teacher as a gifted man, or he must be a Teacher in Office; he cannot ex officio, by his Office, be a Teacher as a gifted man, for the authors of that opinion hold that men are Preachers that way as Christians, and so the Deacon though he were not a Deacon, he might be a teacher in that sense, though he were only a gifted Christian: Ergo, he cannot be such a teacher by his Office: but neither can he be an official teacher as a Deacon, for he who doth teach that way must also pray, for the one cannot be granted, and the other denied; if then the Deacon, ex officio, by his office must pray and preach; he must pray and preach 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in season and out of seasor, and give himself to it. But if he must give himself to praying and preaching by his office, then by his office he must give over the sorving of Tables, as is said, Act. 6. 2. and if he must leave Tables by his office, the Deacon by his office must quit and give up his office, and it shall belong to the Deacon by his office, to be no Deacon. 2. Whoever by his office may teach, by his office may administer the Sacraments, for Christ giveth one and the same royal Patent and Commission for both, Matth. 28 19 1 Cor. 11. 23. Joh. 4. 1, 2. but this is to be a Minister by Office, and so a Deacon, as a Deacon, is a Pastor. 3. The Deacons office is to preach if he be thereto called by the Bishop: hence the Bishop is the principal and sole Pastor; the Preacher, Elder, and Deacon, none of them may preach or baptise, except they be called thereunto by the bishop. Hence judge what a Pastor that man i●, who actu primo, and by office is a preacher, but cannot nor may not exercise his Office, but by the will of a mortal man. Object. 10. The Deacon must be the husband of one wife, ruling his children and his own house well 1 Tim. 3. 12. Ergo, he must be able to govern the Church well, no l●sse than the Pastor of whom the same qualification is required, v. 5. and so the Deacon must be somewhat more than a carer for the poor. Answ. The Deacon is never called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 a Ruler; nor is that same dignity of ruling the Church put upon the Deacon, v. 12. which is put upon the Pastor, v. 5. Nor are these same words spoken of both. Nor is it said that the Deacon must rule the House of God; but the meaning is, he who cannot rule his own children and house shall not be able to rule the Hospital houses of the poor and sick; and this ruling is nothing but a caring for tables, and for the houses of the poor. Whereas taking care for the house of God is given to the Pastor, v. 5. but if you give to the Deacon the keys of the Kingdom of Heaven, he is higher than his first institution can bear, Act. 6. where he is expressly removed from all official meddling with word and prayer, and set to the serving of Tables. Object. 11. The Deacon by his Office is to serve Tables, Act. 6. 2. that is, to administer the Sacraments, at least he is by office to baptise; for jesus himself baptised not, but his Disciples, Io●. 4. 2. and Christ sent not Paul to baptise, but to preach; therefore the dpostles baptised by others, by Deacons, and by others whose ministry and help they used in baptising, Ergo, the Deacons office is not only to care for the poor. Answ. I yield that the Deacon is to serve at the communion Table, and provide the Elements, and to carry the Cup at the Table: but that is no ways the meaning of serving Tables in this place, Acts 6. 2. because the serving of Tables, here, is such a service, as was a remedy of the Widows neglected in the daily ministration, for of this neglect they complain v. 1. but they did not complain that they were neglected of the benefit of the Lords Supper, for the Apostles do never think that the administration of the Lords Supper is a burden which they put off themselves as inconsistent with the preaching of the word and prayer, and which they devolve wholly over to Deacons, It's not so saith the sixth council, and chrysostom seemeth to 6. Synod. can 16. invenimus eos esselocutos (Act. 6 non de viris qui ministrant mysterits, sed de ministerio quod in usu mensarun● ad hibebatur, secundum Chrysostom. Chryost. ●omil. 13. ● act. teach the same; and because a Table signifieth an Altar, (as Salmeron saith) therefore some papists say that Deacons served at the Altar; and so saith pontificale Romanum oportet diaconum ministrare ad altar, Baptizare, & praedicare: and Salmeron saith, to serve at the altar is essential to the Deacon, but to preach and baptise agreeth to him by commission and of necessity. 2. The Apostles in the Text, Acts 6. do denude themselves, of serving of Tables in an official way, or, as serving of Tables was a peculiar office imposed upon seven men, of honest report, and full of the Holy Ghost, with apostolic benediction, and laying on of the hands of the Apostles, and do manifestly make it an office different from their pastoral charge, which was to give themselves continually to prayer, and to the ministry of the word, v. 3. 4. for baptising cannot but include praying and preaching. Mat. 28. 19 or at least must be necessarily conjoined in one and the same Church-officer; for where doth the word of God hold forth to us such a rare and strange Creature, who by office is to baptise, but by office is neither to preach nor pray? now the Text doth clearly difference the office of serving Tables, and the office of continual praying and preaching, as not consistent in one person v. 3. 4, 5, 6. Object. 12. Paul, 1 Tim. 3. requireth that the Deacon v. 10. should first be tried, and thereafter use the office, so he be found blameless; Ergo, the Deacon must be ordained with imposition of hands, as the presbyter, and so must be, by office, some more eminent person, than one who serveth Tables only; for grace was given to Timothy; by the laying on of hands, 1 Tim. 3. 14. and chrysostom observeth, that Steven did no miracles; nor did he speak with wisdom, that the adversaries were not able to resist v. 8. 9 10. till first he was appointed a Deacon, by imposition of hands, which evidenceth to us more than a poor office of giving alms to the poor. Answ. There is need that Deacons be tried; and it is said, they must be found 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, blameless in conversation, not 〈◊〉, apt to teach, which is required in a Teacher, 1 Tim. 3. 1. for these who are to show mercy with cheerfulness, and to give with simplicity, as Deacons must by their office do, Rom. 12. 8. must be of approved and tried blamelesnes, lest they detrand the poor. 2. It is not said that Deacons were ordained with fasting and prayer, Acts 6. as the Elders are chosen in every Church, Acts 14. 23. and as hands are laid upon Paul and Barnabas; Acts 13. v. 3. 4. but simply that the Apostles, Acts 6. 6. prayed and laid their hands on them. Which seemeth to me, to be nothing, but a sign of praying over the Deacons, and no ceremony, or Sacrament conferring on them the Holy Ghost; And Steven his working of miracles, and speaking with wisdom irresistible, was but the fruit of that grace and extraordinary measure of the Holy Ghost, abundantly poured forth on all ranks of persons, in those days, when the prophecy of jocl was now taking its accomplishment; Act. 2. 16, 17, 18 19 jocl. 2. 28. 29. which grace was in Steven before he was ordained a Deacon, by the laying on of hands. Act. 6. 3, 4, 5. And the Text saith not that Steven did wonders and signs amongst the people by virtue of imposition of hands, or of his Deaconry, but because he was full of faith and power. v. 8. else you must make working of miracles a gift bestowed on all those who serve Tables, and are not to give themselves to continual praying, and the Ministry of the Word. I think, papists will not say so much of all their priests; and we can say it of none of our pastors, nor doth Chysostome say that Steven, as a Deacon, and by virtue of the office of a Deacon wrought miracles; but only that his miracles and disputing was a mere consequent of laying on of hands. Farther laying on of hands was taken from the custom of blessing amongst the Jews, Christ laid his hands upon young children and blessed them, yet did he not, thereby, design them to any office. The fourth council of Carthage saith, Deacons should administer the Sacraments; but times were growing worse than: and two things in ancient times made the office degenerate. 1. The laziness of pastors who laid preaching and baptising on the Deacon. 2. The Deacons having in their hands aerarium Ecclesiasticum, the Church Treasury, as the Church became rich, the Deacons were exalted; and then came in their Archiliaconi, Archdeacon's and Deacons, and so some Deacons were above pastors, whereas Acts 6. in their first institution they were inferior to pastors; this moved Spalleto to tell us of two sorts of Deacons, the apostolic Deacons, which we assert, and the ecclesiastic Deacons, popi● and of the newest cut; which we discla●me. As concerning the perpetuity of Deacons. I conceive that Deacons must be as permanent in the Church, as distribution and showing mercy on the poor. Ob. 13. How do those words Act. 6. v. 7. and the word of God grew, and the number of Disciples multiplied in Jerusalem greatly, etc. follow upon the institution of Deacons v. 2, 3 4. 5, 6. if Deacons were not, according to their primitive institution and Office, ordained to be Preachers of the word, by whose pains the word grew? Answ. The cohesion three ways is good. 1. Because the Apostles being exonerated of serving Tables, and giving themselves to continual praying and the ministry of the word v. 2. Through the constituting of the seven Deacons the word thereby did grow (2) Satan stirred up a schism betwixt the Grecians and Hebrews, which is prejudicial to the growth of the Gospel and Church, yet the Lord being superabundantly gracious, where Satan is exceedingly malicious, will have his Gospel and Church to flourish. 3. These words v. 7. do cohere kindly with the last verse of the foregoing Chapter. v. 41. And daily in the Temple, and in every house, they ceased not to teach and preach Jesus Christ and Ch. 6. v. 7. And the word of God increased, etc. God blessing the labours of his persecuted Apostles, and the story of the ordained Deacons is cast in by Luke upon occasion of the neglected Grecian Widows, and the growth of the word could not arise from the appointing of such officers who were not to labour in the word and prayer, but employed about Tables, to the end that the Apostles might labour in the word and prayer. Ob. 14. But doth not the faithful administration of the Deacons office, purchase to the Deacon a good degree, that is, doth it make him ●●●ter in a preparatory way to be a Pastor? Answ. The word of God, 1 Tim. 3. and elsewhere setting down the qualification and previous dispositions of a Teacher, doth no where teach us, that none can be a minister, but he who is first a Deacon. 2. Didcclavius saith, many are faithful Deacons who are never Teachers, nor apt to be Teachers, and many in the ancient Church were, of lay men, made Teache●r. Ambrose heri Catechumenus, hodie Episcopus; and Estius Altar Damas●. p. 110. Estius come. in 1. Tim. Hugo Card. come. in loc. Cornelius a lap. in loc. chrysostom in locen. Cyprian l. 4. epist. 2. ad Antonianun. Bernard Serm. 3. the ●ssiupt. Lyra in loc. Salmero come. in loc. granteth, many good Deacons can never be Teachers, because of their ignorance. Hugo Cardinal saith, this is only against these, qui subito ascendunt in pr●lationes, who suddenly ascend to prelacies, Cornelius a lapide saith, ut promereantur altiùs promoveri in sacerdotia; they are to serve so, as they may deserve to be promoted to higher places; but this doth not infer that none can be presbyters who have not first been Deacons. As chrysostom saith, we use not to place a novice in an high place, antequam fidei suae & vitae dederit doc●m●nta, before he have given proof of his faith, and good conversation. And Cyprian writing to Antonianus, commendeth Cornelius that he came not by a leap and suddenly to be a Bishop, sed per omnia ecclesiastica officia promotus, being promoted by degrees to all Church-Offices; and Bernard followeth the same meaning. Lyra, merebu●tur quod fiant sacerdotes, acquirunt altiorem gradum, saith Salmeron. Now it is clear that the fathers and papists could extort no more out of the Text; but that he who useth the office of a Deacon well, doth deserve of the Church, to be promoted to an higher office, but there is no ground for papists, or others to make the Deacons office a necessiary degree, without the which none can be a Teacher. a Sozomen l. 5. c. 8. Sozomenus saith the Deacons office was to keep the Church's goods b Epiphan. l. 5. c. 19 Epiphanius, Diaconis in ecclefia non con creditum est, ut aliquod mysterium perficiant, sed ut administrent solùm & exequantur commissa; then they might neither teach nor baptise, c Eusebius l. 4. de una cons. Eusebius saith, the care of the poor and the keeping of the Church and the vessels thereof were committed to the Deacons d Ruffinus l. 1. c. 14. Ruffinus saith, Deacons disputed in Synods; and Athanasius, when he was a Deacon, helped his Bishop Alexander at the Nicen council; but this came (as I suppose) because about the fourth century, they were admitted to be scribes in Synods e Ambros. c. 4. ad Ephes. Ambrose saith at the beginning, Deacons did preach and baptise, but after when the Church was well furnished with officers, they durst not presume to teach. The f Concl. Nice c. 20. Canon of the council of Nice saith; Diaconi ne sedeant in concessu presbyterorum, aut illis praesentibus Eucharistiam dividant, sed illis agentibus solùm ministrent; if there was not a presbyter present g Ruffin. l. 2. c. 6. Ruffinus saith, than the Deacon might distribute the Elements. I conceive, the place 1 Tim. 5. saith, that Widows were in the Apostolic Church, both poor aged Women, who were to be mantained by the Church, and also auxiliary helps, for mere service to help the Deacons in these hot Countries. Both is apparent from the Text▪ honour Widows that are Widows indeed, that is as h Hugo Cardinal. come. in loc. Hugo Cardinalis expoundeth it, who want both the comfort of an husband and of Children to maintain them; and so also i Chrysost. in loc. chrysostom, before him expounded it; and k Hugo Cardin. c. in. loc. Chrysosto. Theophyl. Anselmus. Hugo Cardinalis, the honour that is due to them, is, say chrysostom, Theophylact, Anselmus, that they be sustained by the oblations of the Church. Ecclesiae oblationibus sustententur, say l Salmer. come. in loc. Salmeron and m Estius in loc. Estius; and Cornelius n Cornelius à lapid. come. in loc. à lapide, saith, as (honour thy Father and thy Mother) doth include (h●norem sustentationis) that children are to give the honour of maintenance to their indigent parents, no less than the honour of obedience and reverence, so are Widows to have this honour. (2) It is said, if any Widow have children or nephews, let them learn first to show mercy at home, and to requite their Parents; Ergo, the children or grand children of these Widows were to sustain them, and not to burden the Church, with them, and so they were poor Widows; and this. 3. The Text clearly holdeth forth, while the Apostle proveth that the children who are able, are to help the Parent being a desolate Widow; because v. 8. all are to provide for these of their own house, and to maintain them in their indigence, else they be, in that, worse than Infidel children, who by nature's love, do provide for their poor parents. 3. This is clear from, v. 16. if any man or woman that believeth, hath widows, let them relieve them, and let not the Church be charged, that they may relieve them that are widows indeed; Ergo, these widows called also, v. 3. widows indeed, did some way burden the Church with their maintenance, and they were not to be laid upon the Church's stock, to be maintained thereby, except they were desolate and without friends. But some may object, if these widows had a charge, and did any work or service to the Church, (as it is clear from the Text, v 9 they did) in overseeing the poor, and the sick, were not wages due to them, for their work? for the labourer is worthy of his hire; the Scripture saith not, if a Preacher have a father who is Rich, and may sustain his Son; let not the Church be burdened with his wages, but on the contrary, the Preacher is to have his wages for his work, as an hire; ad modum debiti, non ad modum eleemo●ynae; as a debt, not as an Alms. I answer, the reason is not alike of the preaching Elder, and of the Widow; for the pastors service requiring the whole man was of that nature, that it was a work deserving wages, as any workman, a dresser of a Vineyard deserveth wages, 1 Cor. 9 7. or a plougher, or one that Thresheth v. 10. Therefore the Preachers wages is so wages that its debt, not alms: but a Widow of sixty years being weak and infirm, cannot acquit herself, in such a painful office as doth merit poor wages, and therefore the reward of her labour was both wages and an alms. Again, that this Widow had some charge or service in the Church, (I mean not any Ministerial office, for she was not ordained as the Deacon, Acts 6. with imposition of hands) I prove from the Text. 1. Because this Widow was not to be chosen to the number or College of Widows, except she had been 60. Years, this is a positive qualification of a positive service, as if it were an office; for else what more reason in 60. Years then in 61. or 62. or in 58. or 59 if she was a mere eleemosynary and an indigent woman? or can godliness permit us to think that Paul would exclude a Widow of 50. or 54. or 56 Years, from the College of Widows, who were desolate and poor? nor, 2. Would Paul rebuke the Widow taken into the society of these Widows, because she married an husband, except she had entered to this service, and had vowed chastity, nor is marrying the second time which is lawful, Rom. 7. 1. 2. a waxing wanton against Christ and a casting off of the first faith; as the marrying of these widows is called. v. 11. 12. therefore this Widow, had some charge and service, in the Church. 3. The word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 let a Widow be chosen of such an age, and not younger, and with such moral qualifications, as is required in the Deacon, etc. doth also evidence that it was an election to some service or charge, as is she be of good report, if she have brought up her children; if she have lodged strangers; if she have washed the saints feet; which qualifications not being in a Widow poor and desolate, cannot exclude her from the Church's alms, and expose her to famishing for want: this also doth Ambrose, Augustine, tract. 58. in joan. Chrysostomus, Theophylact. Hieronymus observe on this place; It is not unprobable to me that Phoebe called a Deacon, or servant of the Church of Cenchrea, was such a Widow, seeing she is Rom. 16. 1. expressly so called: how she came to Rome, if she was a poor Widow and now 60. years old, I dispute not, seeing God's Spirit calleth her so. We can easily yield that Widows of sixty years entering to this service did vow not to marry again; so teach Cyprian. l. 1. epist▪ ad Pomponium, Hyeronym. contr. Jovia●. Epihan. 48. The last Canon of the council of Nice (as Ruffinus l. 1. c. 6. saith) denieth Widows to be Church-officers, because they were not ordained with imposition of hands. Hyeronimus in c. 16. add Roman. saith, Diaconisses in the Oriental Church had some service in Baptism. Epiphanius l. 3. tom. 2. Heres. 79. saith, they were in the Church, non ad sacrificandum, sed propter horam Balnci, aut visitationis— quando nudatum fuit corpus ●●lieris. Constantine placed them amongst the Clergy, to govern the Corpse of the dead; but Papists then have no warrant for their Nuns. CHAP. 8. SECT. 8. Of Election of Officers. HEre the Author teaches, that Election of Officers belongeth to the Church whose officers they are. 2. That the Church of The way of the Churches of Christ. believers, being destitute of all officers, may ordain their own officers and Presbyters, by imposition of hands, in respect that the power of the keys is given to the Church of believers, Mar. 18. Answ. Election of Officers (no doubt) belongeth to the whole Church, not in the meaning of our Brethren; but that this may be cleared, whether a Church without officers, may ordain Elders, there be divers other questions here to be agitated; as 1. Whether the Church be before the Ministry, or the Ministry before the Churches. 1. Dist. There is an ordinary, and an extraordinary Ministry. 2. There is a mystical Church of believers, and a ministerial Church of Pastors and flock. 3. A Church may be so called by anticipation, as Host 12. Jacob served for a wise; or formally, because it is constituted in its whole being. 4. A Ministry is a Ministry to these, who are not as yet professors, but only potentially members of the Church. 1. Concl. There is a Church of believers sometime before there be a ministerial Church. 1. Because a company of believers is a mystical Church, for which Christ died, Eph. 5. 25. And such there may be before there be a settled Ministry. As there is a house, before there be a Candlestick, because conversion may be by private means, as by reading and conference; yea a woman hath carried the Gospel to a Land, before there was a Ministry in it. 2. Adam was first and Evah by order of ●ature a Church created of God, before there was a Ministry; So Adam's Ministry is founded upon a nature created according to God's Image. 2. Concl. A public ordinary Ministry is before a Church of believers. Eph. 4. 11. Pastors, Teachers, and a Ministry, are given to the inbringing and gathering of the Church; 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. That is, edifying, and not only for confirming, but for the converting of the Body of Christ. Nor is Robinson a Robinson Iust. of s●pa●. p. 320. and his fellows here to be heard, that the word of restoring is the same which is used, Gal. 6. 1. and so nothing is meant but repairing of Christians already converted, not the converting of these who are yet unconverted. But I Answer 1. The Word of restoring doth no more import that they were converted before, than the word of renewing, Eph. 4. 23. Rom. 12. 2. and the word of awaking from sleep of sinners, Ep●. 5. 14. doth import that these were new Creatures before, and that they had the life of God, before they be said to be renewed again and made new, and awaked out of their sleep. And this Pelagian and popish exposition, is a fair way to elude all the places for the power of grace; and to help Papists and Arminian●. 2. By this there is, 1. no necessity of a public Ministry, for the conversion of Souls to Christ, nor is a Ministry and Pastors, and Teachers given by Jesus Christ, with intention, to open the eyes of the blind, and to convert souls to God. All the ordinary ways of conversion of Souls, is by the preaching of men out of office, and destitute of all calling of the Church to preach, which is a wonder. 3. The Father's begetting, by order of nature, are before the children; the pastors are Fathers, the seed before the plant or birth; the word preached, Rom. 10. 14. is the immortal seed of the new birth, 1 Pet. 1. 23. The Ministry and ordinary use thereof, is given to the pastors as to Christ's Ambassadors, 2 Cor. 5. 18. 20. Therefore the Ministry is before the Church of believers, though we will not tie the Lord to these only: yet is this his ordinary established way: but more of this hereafter. Robinson objecteth b Just of separ. p. 320. 321. The Apostles and brethren were a Church of God, Acts 2. 25. when as yet no Pastors or Teachers were apppointed in it. How then are the Ministers spoken of Eph. 4. 11. before the Church out of which they were taken? yea the office of pastors was not heard of in the Church then. Ans. 1. It is clear there were in that meeting, eleven Apostles called to be pastors; Mat. 10. 1, 2, 3. sent of God, Mat 29. 19 inspired or the Holy Ghost to open and shut Heaven, joh. 20. 21, 22. Before Christ's ascension; and this meeting was after his ascension, Acts. 1. 15. and here was a governing Church, and without the Apostles, an Apostle could not be chosen and called by men. And an instance of such a calling is not in God's Word. 2. He objecteth. The Apostles themselves, were first Christians and members of the Church, before they were Ministers. Answ. Men may be a Church of Christians, and a mystical Church before they have a Ministry, but they are not a governing Church, having the power of the keys, so long as they want officers and stewards, who only have warrant ordinary of Christ to use the keys. 3. He objecteth, God 1 Cor. 12. 28. hath set officers in the Church; Ergo, the Church is before the Officers, as the setting of a Candle in a Candlestick. presupposeth a Candlestick. The Church is the candlestick. Rev. 1. The officers candles, lights, stars Answ. God hath put and breathed in man a living soul. Ergo, he is a living man, before the soul be breathed in him: friend your logic is naught. The Church is the Candlestick, not simply without Candles and Lamps: the Church ministerial is the Candlestick, and the Ministers the Candles set in the Church ministerial, as Eyes and Ears are seated, and all the seals are seated in a living man; Ergo, he is a living man before the senses be seated in him, it followeth in no sort. Because by the candles seating in the Church, the Church becometh a ministerial and governing Church: It is as you would say the Lord giveth the wife to the husband; Ergo. He is an husband before God give him the wife. 4. He objecteth. That it is senseless, that a Minister may be sent as a Minister, to the hidden number not yet called out, which are also his st●ck potentially, not actually; as Mr. Bernard saith, because it is the property of a good shepherd, to call his own sheep by name. joh. 20. also it is a logical error, that a man may have a● actual relation to a stock potentially, it is as if a man were a husband because he may have a wife. But I answer; he not only may be, but is a pastor to these that are but potentially members to the invisible Church, though unconverted, except you say, a man hath no relation as a pastor to the flock, to all and every one of a thousand souls, which are his flock, except they be all truly converted, and members of the invisible Church, which if you say, I can refute it easily as an anabaptistical falsehood; for if they all profess the truth, and choose him for their pastor, he is their pastor, but they are a saved flock potentially, though actually a visible flock having actual relation to him, as to their pastor. But. 2. That a good minister know all his flock by name, be requisite, and is spoken of Christ▪ joh. 10. in relation to the whole Catholic Church, as is expounded v. 14. yet will it not follow, he is not a pastor nor not a good pastor, who knoweth not all his flock at all times. 3. A man is indeed not properly a pastor, and a Church officer to Indians, who neither are called nor profess the truth, if he preach to them, though he have not relation to such, as to a Christian flock, yet he hath a relation of a pastor to them in that case. Yea I desire our brethren to satisfy me in this even according to their grounds. A number of Christians is a Church mystical, but they are not a Church ministerial, while they be conjoined covenant-ways, and use the keys in such acts of Church union: Ergo, They are not a Church ministerial before they be a Church governing: which is all we say; for than they should be a body seeing and hearing, before they be a body seeing and hearing. Quest. 2. Whether there be any Church in the Scripture having power of the keys, yet wanting all Church-Officers? The Question is near to the former, yet needful in this matter to be discussed. The Question is not, if the name Church be given to a company of Christians, without relation to their Officers, for the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is given to a civil meeting. The Hebrews call, sometimes, any meeting of people a Church: as 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 doth sometime signify, Gen. 49. 6. my soul come not thou 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to their assembly. So the Rabbins use 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 for a place, where the Congregation meeteth. So the Chaldaic and Arabic use 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, for the place where the worshippers met, from 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Caldaice & Syriace, Adoravit, because it is a place of meeting for adoration; and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 thè Congregation from the Arabic 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 congregavit. Yet speaking of a governing and orderly constituted Church, you shall never find, such a Church having the name of a Church, but such a company as hath officers, and is spoken of as a house and family, where there are stewards, keys, doors, bread and other things noting a City-incorporation. 1. Because the keys are given to stewards, who, by▪ office, bear the keys; for taking in and casting out, by power of censures, is proper to an ordered City, where there are governors, and people governed. 2. Because we read not that the keys are given to a company of single believers, out of office. 3. We never find in the word of God, any practice, or precept, that a single company did use the keys, or can use them, wanting all Officers. Hear what Robinson objecteth, that he may establish a popular government. a Robinson. Just. separ p. 107. 108. Two or three making Peter's confession, Mat. 16. are a Church. But two or three may make this confession without officers; Ergo, The proposition is clear, by the promise made to build the Church upon the Rock of Peter's confession. Answ. 1. I deny the proposition, and it is not proved: two or three making Peter's confession are not the Church ministerial, to which Christ gave the keys; for the keys include pastoral power to preach and baptise, which Separatists b Confess art. 37. deny to two or three wanting officers, they may be a mystical Church or a part of the redeemed Church, Eph. 3. 25. 26. nor doth Christ promise to build the ministerial Church properly on the rock, but only the Church of believers, for whom he gave the keys, but to whom he gave no keys. 2. This argument will hurt our brethren: for two or three not entered in Church-state, nor in Courch-Covenant, without Church-state, as well, as without officers, may, and do often make Peter's confession; yet are they not for that a governing Church, because they may not happily as yet be united covenant-ways. 2. He objecteth, If the Apostles appoint Elders in every Church. Acts 14. 23. If God se● in the Church Apostles, Prophets, Teachers, 1 Cor 12. 28. Then there is a Church before Officers, Apostles, Prophets: a Major presupposeth there was a City, before he was Major, a Steward presupposeth a family; is not the Eldership an ordinance of the Church, and called the Elders of the Church? The Church is not an ordinance of the Elders, or given ●● the Elders. Ans. Job. 10. 20. God hath granted to job life; Ergo, job was a living man before God had given him life. The Lord breathed in man the breath of life; Ergo, he was a breathing and a living man, before God breathed that life in him. God form man of the dust, Gen. 2. 7. Ergo, he was a man before God form him. All these are as good consequences. So Iac●● served for a wife, Host 12. 12. Ergo, she was his wife before he served for her; it followeth not. 2. This proveth not there is a governing Church without Officers, but the contrary, because for that end doth the Lord appoint Elders in every Church, and a ruler in a City, a King in a Kingdom, to govern them, to feed the flock, Acts 20. 28. Ergo, before there be Officers in a Church, there is no government in it. And so it is not a governing Church; nor is a City a governing incorporation without a Major or some other Rulers, nor a Kingdom a monarchical state without a King. And so the Elders, are the Church's Elders, as life is the form of a living man. And this argument is much against them God (say our Brethren) hath apppointed a Church-covenant, in his Church, will it follow: Ergo, there is a Church, before a Church-covenant; They cannot say this. 3. These with whom (saith Robinson) God hath made a covenant, lb. 108. to be their God, and to have them his people, and to dwell it them as his Temple, which have right to the promises of Christ and his presence, are his Church. But a company of believers without Officers are such; Ergo, The proposition is Scripture, Gen. 17. 17. Levi. 26. 11, 12. Mat. 18. 17. The assumption is true, because they may believe, separate themselves from the world, come out of Babel without Officers, except you say they must go to Rome, to Jerusalem, and beyond sea, to seek a Church. Answ. The major is false; for God is in covenant with six believers before they swear a Church-covenant, and so all the promises are made to them, and yet by your grant, they are not a Church. Yea all these agree to the invisible Church, and every single member thereof. 2. Without officers, believers may not separate themselves from the world, and come out of Babel, by a positive and authoritative separation, to erect a new Church without pastors, or in an ordinary way; though as Christians they may separate from Rome, negatively and touch no unclean things. 3. We send none to jerusalem and Babylon to seek a Church yet, but except we fall unto the Tenets of Anabaptists, Socinians and Arminians: we must send farther than to every house, where three believers are, to seek such as have warrant from Christ to adminstrate the seals of grace, except you in casting down Babel, build jericho, and raise up a Tower of confusion, and evert the ministerial order that Christ hath apppointed in his Church. 4. Then how often (saith he) the Officers die, so oft the Church dieth also; to remove the candlestick is to dischurch the assembly; but the death of Officers (which may be in a great persecution) is never said to be a dischurching of an assembly. And all communion of Saints shall perish, when the Officers are removed; for Baptism is without the visible Church; Eph. 4. Answ. 1. When the shepherds are removed, the Tents cannot be called the Shepherd's Tents, and persecution often doth deface the visible face of a Ministerial Church, and to remove the candlestick is to remove the ministry, as to take away eyes, and ears and hands from the body, is to hurt the integrity of it, and make it lame. 2. All communion Ministerial whereby we are a body visible, 1 Cor. 10. 16. eating one bread, may well be loosed, when pastors are removed, whose only it is, by your own confession, to administrate the Sacraments, except you allow all to administrate the Lords Supper, and women to Baptism; nor is there a communion in a family betwixt husband and wife, if you remove husband and wife out of the family, except, you mean a communion by way of charity, to rebuke, exhort, comfort one another, which communion is betwixt two independent congregations, who are not in Church-state one to another: but if you mean in Church-communion, take heed that the keys of every christian family, and the keys of the Kingdom of Heaven be not by this, made all one. Also it is (saith he) unequal dealing to make a profane multitude, Robin's. Just of sepal. p. 110. 11● under a diocesian prelate a Church, and to deny, that a company of faithful believers is a Church. 2. God hath not tied his power or presence to any order, or office of the world, but accepteth of them that fear him, and work Righteousness. 3. A power to enjoy the officers is seated in the body, as an essential property. 4. Th● Lord calleth the body of the Saints the Church, excluding the Elders Acts 20. 17. 28. 1 Tim. 3. 15. because the Church is essentially in the saints, as the matter and subject form by the covenant, unto the which the Officers are but adjuncts, not making for the being, but for the wellbeing of the Church, and so the furtherance of their faith and their service. Answ. A profane multitude under a diocesian prelate, is not a Church mystical of redeemed ones, as a company of Believers are, but professing the truth and consisting of a flock of called Officers, they may well be a Ministerial Church, which four Believers cannot be. It is true God hath not tied his power and presence to any order or office, as Anabaptists say: and so speaketh the Catech. of Raccovia a Catech. Rac. de eccles. ch. p. 301. 302. and Smalcius b Smalcius in refut. thesiii Dr. sra●zii. par. 2. disp. 4 p. 379. and Nicolaides c Nicolai●. in defence. tract. Socinian● de ministr. missione contra Miedziboz●um p. 140. say, there is no necessity of a Ministry, after that the Evangel i● preached by the Apostles and confirmed by miracles: and that a Ministry is only profitable ad benè esse, and not necessary; The Arminians teach so, the d Remons. apol. f. 246. Remonstrantes, praedicationem verbi ad id simplicitèr necessariam negant: quid clarius? So e Episcop. disp. 28. Thes. 11. Eipscopius, pastoris actio non tam necessaria est quam utilis ad edificationem, postquam Scriptura omnibus & singulis legenda data est, ut ex ca suopte Marte discat quisque quantum satis est. But Paul maketh it in the ordinary way, necessary for salvation to believe, * Rom. 10. 14, 15. to call on the Name of the Lord, and to hear a Prophet sent; and the presence and power of God in the Seals of Righteousness, is tied to lawful Pastors, who only can administrate those Seals, Mat. 28. 19 as to means ordained of God, not as if God could not save without them, and accept the righteous doers without them, but see how this man would bear us in hand, that the comfort of pastoral preaching and the Sacraments cannot be tied to called Ministers, exccept we call God an accepter of persons, which is denied, Acts 10? I believed Teachers and Doctors and Elders, had been the Eyes, Ears and Hands, and so integral parts of the visible Church, as Christ is the head of the catholic church. And this man maketh integral parts adjunctes of the church, thereby declaring Ministers may be well wanted, and that they are passements ad bene esse, and things of order. Never did Anabaptists speak louder against the Ordinances of Christ; and Socinians and Arminians are obliged to him. Thirdly, the believers have right to the Officers, and this right is an essential property of the Church; then also, because believers have right to the Keys, the Keys are only an adjunct of the visible Church, which our brethren must deny. 4. Acts 20. 17. 1 Tim. 3. 15. The Church excluding the Officers is (saith Robinson) called the Church, as the Elders of the Church, and Timothy was to behave himself well in the Church of God. This is answered; they are first a mystical Church, not a governing Church. Secondly, a man is called a man excluding his soul, (if your soul were in my soul's stead.) Therefore a man is a thing living, and a reasonable man without his soul: what vanity is here! Fifthly, if the Church-Covenant be the essential form of the Church, it is as accider tall to the well being of believers, as Officers are; for they are the light of the world, the salt of the earth, which is more necessary than a Church-Covenant. And Robinson saith a p. 112, 113. further, Two or three have received Christ, and his power and right to all the means of grace, and Christ and his power are not divided; also the wife hath immediate right to her husband's person and goods for her use. Answ. Two or three (yea one believer) and these not entered in Church-state, but believing in Christ, have received Christ and his power in all Christian privileges due to that state: True; They have received Christ and his power in all ministerial and Church-priviledges, it is false; nor can our brethren admit of this by their grounds: for than should they have right in their own person to preach pastorally, and administrate the Sacraments; if Christ and the pastoral power to such acts cannot be divided, and if they have as immediate right to use the keys in pastoral acts as the wife hath to the husband and goods. Also (saith he) b Just. p. 1●7▪ Of the Churches of the Gentiles, some were converted to God by Apostles, others by private Christians, Acts 8. 12. and 10. 36, 44, 47, 48. and 11. 19, 20, 21. and 13. 1, 12, 48. and 14. 1, 7. Can we in reason thinks, during the Apostles absence, that the Churches never assembled together for edification in praying, prophesying, and other ordinances? were not all they converts, who desired to be admitted to their fellowship? Had they not use of excommunication? The Apostles came but occasionally to the Churches, where they appointed Elders, Acts 14. 25. Why did Paul leave Titus at Crete, save only that men of gifts might be trained up in prophesying? Answ. All here said is conjectural, he cannot give us an instance of a Church exercising Church-power, and destitute of Officers, only he saith, Can we conceive that in the Apostles absence there was no Church meetings for edification? But were there no Elders and Officers in the Apostolic Church, but only Apostles? I think there have been Pastors, and when the Apostles first left the planted Churches, can we conceive that they left new converted flocks without Pastors? and if without Officers they met for prophesying, can we conceive that they wanted the Seals of the Covenant? certainly, Sacraments without Officers are no rules for us to follow. Secondly, of conversion by private persons, I purpose to speak hereafter; if they preached, it is not ordinary, nor a rule to us. Thirdly, at Crete there have been Preachers, but of government without them I see nothing; since Elders Timothy and Titus are limited in receiving accusation: against Elders, and are forbidden to lay hands suddenly on any man; I see not how the people without Officers did this. It is good, that this Church that they give us, is all builded upon conjectures, and an unwritten Church is an unwritten tradition. If the Apostles appointed Elders in the Church for this end, to govern; we gather the contrary of your collections. Ergo, there was no government in the Churches before there were governor's, for the end could not be existing in God's wisdom without the means; that watchmen should go about the walls before the City be walled, and discipline erected, I cannot conceive: without Officers, the ordinary disciplinators, the City of God can be no governing City. It is (saith he) strange where multitudes are converted; and that where neither Apostles nor Officers were present, that there were no Churches here; it is gross to say. That in the Apostles times nothing was begun but by them. A. There was conversion of multitudes to the Lord; Ergo, there was a Church-Covenant in stating them all in Church-State; you cannot say it yourselves. Secondly, it is not gross, but Apostolic, that all new Acts of government should take their beginning from the Apostles, as the choosing of Mathias, Acts 1. the ordaining of Deacons, Acts 6. the preaching to the Gentiles, Acts 10. had their beginning from the Apostles, who founded and planted Churches. 3. Quest. Whether or not ordination of Elders may be by the Church of believers wanting all Elders or Officers. Here these particulars must be discussed; first, from whence is ordination of Elders from Elders or from the people. Secondly, if election by the people be all that is requisite in a lawful calling. Thirdly, the argument from the calling of our reformers must be discussed. For the first, observe the following considerations: First, A succession in the Church is necessary ordinarily; extraordinarily, and in cases of necessity it may be wanting. Secondly, we deny the popish succession to be a note of the Church, nor do we in any sort contend for it. First, because a right succession must be a succession to truth of Doctrine, not personal or total to the chair and naked office. So a T●rtul. de praescrip c. 32. Tertullian, and falsehood may succeed to truth, sickness to health, as b Naz. orat. 21. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. Nazianzen. Yea, as c Occam dial. p. 1. l. 4. c 9 & sect 5. c. 3. &c 28. qut sidem primitus fundavit catholicam, tot●st date pauperes, simplices ill●crator & rusticos in aedis●●ationem Eccles. orthodoxae. Occam saith, Laymen and Teachers extraordinarily raised up, may succeed to heretical Pastors. Secondly, there is succession to the errors of preceding teachers, either material without pertinacy, holding what they hold; or formal to the same errors, with hatred of the truth and pertinacy; the latter we reject, the former may be in lawfully called Pastors. See what Beza d Beza to. 3● in. opusc. p. 140, 141. saith of this. Neither will we here go from true succession, whereas e Iren. l. 4. c. 43. Ireneus saith, men, Cum Episcopatus successione charisma veritatis acceperunt. And as f Aug. de vinc. c. 16. Augustine, when they do prove themselves to be the Church only by Scriptures, non nisi caenonic is libris. Thirdly, we deny not but Asia, Africa, Egypt, and a great part of Europe heard not a word of Christ for a long time, as Binnius g Binnius to. 4 p. 599. observeth in the h Concil. lateran. c. 10. s. 8. iacet desolata Asia etc. La●eran Council. And succession was interrupted many ages in the world, saith i Prosper de voc t gent●um l. 2 c. 6. Prosper and k Aug. de con e●s. Evang. s. 2. c. 31. Augustine. Nor can l Bellarm de Pont. Rom. 3. cap. 4. Bellarmine deny it. 3. We desire that more may be seen of this also in m lrens. l. 3. c. 3. 〈◊〉, n Cyprian l. ●. cp. 6. Cyprian, o 〈◊〉 165 Augustine. And a great jesuit p 〈…〉. The 〈◊〉 9 do eccles. sect. 7. n. 6 Suariz in words passeth from this note. The Epistles of A●acletus to all ingenious men, except to such as Stapleton, are counterfeit; and the Greek Church hath as much of th●s as the Roman, and more. Antiochia, Alexandria, and Constantinople, may say more for it also. 3 Distinct. It is one thing to receive ordination from a P●●lat● lawfully and another thing to receive lawful ordination. The former w● deny; Ministers si●ne who receive ordination from a Pr●late, as they sin, who receive baptism from the Romish Church; yet is the ordination lawful and valid, because Prelacy, though different in nature from the office of a true Pastor, is consistent in the same subject with the Pastor's office. 4. Distinct. Though election by the people may make a minister in some cases, yet it is not the essential cause of a called Pastor, as a Rose caused to grow in winter by art is of that same nature with aR●se produced by nature in summer, though the manner of production be different. So are they both true Pastors, those who have no call ba● the people's election, and those who have ordination by Pastors. 5. Distinct. The substance and essence of ordination (as we sh●● after hear) consisteth in the appointing of such for the holy ministry by persons in office. All the corrupt rites added to this by Papists, take not away the essence and nature of ordination. For the Greek Church, even this day at Rome, receiveth ordination by imposition of hands, & not by the reaching a cup and a platter, and that with the Pope's good will. Whereas the Lati● Church have far other Ceremonies following the decree of E●ginius the fourth, and the common way of Rome, approved by q Innocent. 4. ca de Sacram. non iteran. tis. Innocentius the third, and yet they grant both ways of ordinations lawful; because as r Bell. tom. 2. 〈◊〉 sacr. or. l. l. 8. c 9 Bellarmine, s Uasquez In 3. part. Theol. disp. 239. Uasq●● t Joan de lugo to●n. de sacra. disp. 2 sect 4. n. 86. Joan. de Lugo the Pope's Professor this day at Rome saith, These are but accidents of ordination; and because (say they) Christ ordained that this Sacrament should be given by some material sign, but whether by imposition of hands, or otherwise, he hath not determined in individuo (particularly:) see for this, Peter Arcudius his reconciliation of the Eastern and We●erne Church u Petr. Arcudites de co ●cor. Eccles. Occ. & orient. in sacra. administrat. l. 6. c. 4. cired initium rapitis. in the Council of Florence. x Concil. Floren. The Greek Church is not blamed, though imposition of hands be commanded in b Concil. Carthag. llll. c. an. 3, 4. the Council or Carthage. See that variations may be in a Sacrament, and yet such as make not the Sacrament invalid, in c Sotus 4. d. 1. q. 1. art. 8. Sotus d Suarez in 3 part. disp. 2. sect 5. Suarez, e Vasq. in 3. part. disp. 129. c. 6. & c. 7. Vasquez, f Joan. de lugo desacra. disp. 2. sect. 6. n. 104, 105. joan. de Lugo, g Scotus in. 4. disp. 3. q. 2. Scotus. But since h Robin's. Inst. sapa p 334. Robinson granteth, that the Baptism of the Romish Church is not to be repeated, ordination of Pastors is of that same nature, and must stand valid also. Hence our first conclusion. In cases of necessity, election by the people only may stand for ordination, where there be no Pastors at all. This is proved before by us; i Ut supra; first, because God is not necessarily tied to succession of Pastors. Secondly, because where men are gifted for the work of the ministry, and there be no Pastors to be had, the giving of the holy Ghost is a sign of a calling of God, who is not wanting to his own gracious intention, though ordinary means fail. And see for this that learned Voetius k U●et. disp. causa Papatus. l. 2. sect 2. c. 20. & c. 21. p. 263, 264, 265. Nor do we think that we are in this straited, as the Papist jansenius l Apud Uoetium loc. cit. in that place saith, That we must wait for an immediate calling from Heaven, as also m Robinson Just. sepa. Robinson saith. 2. Conclus. Thence may well be deduced that they are lawful Pastors, and need not a calling revealed, who, in cases of extraordinary necessity, are only chosen by the people, and not ordained by Pastors; and that Pastors ordained by Pastors, as such, are Pastors of the same nature; as Mathias called by the Church, and Paul immediately called from Heaven, had one and the same office by nature. 3. Conclus, The established and settled order of calling of Pastors, is by succession of Pastors to Pastors, and Elders by Elders, 1 Tim. 5. 22. Lay hands suddenly on no man. 2 Tim. 4. 14. Neglect not the gift which was given to thee by prophesy, with the laying on of the hands of the Elders. Secondly, the practice of the Apostles is our safe rule, because at all ordination of Church-officers the Apostles and Pastors were actors and ordainers, as Acts 1. 15, 16. Acts 6. 2. 3. Acts. 14. 23. 1 Cor. 3. 6. Tit. 1. 5. and this a Robinson Iust. of sepa. p 327. Robinson granteth, because the charge of all the Churches did lie on the Apostles. As also before the Law, the people did not ordain the Priest hood, but God ordained the first borne by succession to be teachers and priests; b Gen. 21. 9 Gen 25. 31, 32 Num. 3. 12, ●2 Num. 8, 15, 16 and after he chose the Tribe of Levi, without consent of the people, though the Princes and heads of Tribes said hands upon them. And also God of sundry other Tribes raised up Prophets, and did immediately call them, they had only of the people not the calling, bu●●●t the least the silent approbation of the faithful amongst the people. Christ coming in the flesh chose twelve Apostles not knowing either the governing Church or the people; at length, when the Apostles established a Church-government, and a Pastor to a certain flock, they ordained that the chase of the man should be with consen of the people, and beg●n this in Ma●thias, than the seven Deacons, then Acts 14. 23. Elders were chosen by lasting up of the people's hands. But that persons were ordained Pastors and sanctified, and set apart for the work of the ministry, by the authority of the sole multititude, and that without all Officers, we never read. And the laying on of the hands we see not in the New Testament; we shall be desirous to be informed of this by our dear brethren, and entreat them in the fear of the Lord to consider of an unwritten calling of a Ministry. Thirdly, if ordination of Pastors be laid down in the Apostolic Canons to Officers, as Officers, then is not this a charge that doth agree to the people, especially wanting Officers. But the former is true; Ergo, so is the latter. I prove the proposition: What is charged upon Officers as Officers cannot be the charge of the people, because the people are not Officers. I prove the assumption, because 2 Tim. 2. 1, 2. To commit to faithful men the things of the Gospel, which Timothy heard Paul preach, is a charge laid on Timothy in the very terms, that he is vers. 4. not to entangle himself with the affairs of this life, but to be separated for preaching the Gospel, from all worldly employment; as a Soldier sworn to hi● Captain, can attend no other calling, vers. 5. and as he is to put other Pastors in mind of these things, and to charge them that they strite not about words; and as he is to be an approved workman, dividing the word aright, verse. 14. 15. But these are laid upon Timothy as a Pastor. So 1 Tim. 5. as he showeth the honour and reward due to Elders, so doth he charge Timothy not to hear accusations of Elders, but upon two or three witnesses testimony, which is the part of Church-Iudges; even as he is to rebuke sin publicly, that others may fear, verse. 19, 20. So according to that same office, must imposition of hands be conferred upon Pastors advisedly, vers. 22. As the Apostle commandeth all believers to lay hands suddenly on no man. Also Paul would have said, I left a Church of believers at Crete to appoint Elders in every City; if it be the Church's part, even though destitute of Elders to appoint Elders over themselves, but by what po●er Titus was to rebuke sharply the Cretians, that they may be found in the saith, by that power was he left at Crete to appoint Elders in every City; but this is an official power, Titus 1. 13. due to Bishops, as a part of their qualification, vers. 9 4. Argu. The special reason against ordination of Elders, by Elders only, is weak; and that is, a succession of Pastors must be granted ever since the Apostles times, which is (say ourbrethrens) Popish. This reason is weak, because a succession of Elders and Pastors, such as we require, is no more popish than a succession of visible believers; and visible Churches ordaining Pastors, is popish: but our brethren maintain a succession of believers and visible prosessors since the Apostles day. Secondly, we deny the necessity of a succession perpetual, which papists hold. Thirdly, we maintain only a succession to the true and Apostolic Doctrine: papists hold a visible Cathedral succession to the chair of Rome, and titular office of Peter. 4. Quest. Whether or not our brethren do prove that the Church of believers have power to ordain Pastors? In answering our brethren's reasons; I first return to our Author; secondly, I obviate what our brethren say in the answer to a Quest. 13. the Questions sent from old England; and thirdly, shall answer Robinson's arguments. Our b The way of the Churches of Christ in new England, c. 2. sect. 6. Author saith, Believers have power to lay hands on their Officers, because to them Christ gave the keys; that is, the ministerial power of binding and losing, Matth. 16. 16, 17, 18. and Acts 1. The voices of the people went as far as any humane suffrages could go, of an hundred and twenty they chose two. And Acts 14. 23. The Apostles ordained Elders by the lifting up of the hands of the people. Acts 6. They are directed to look out and choose seven men to be Deacons. And the ancient Church did so from Cyprians words, c Cyprian epist. 4. l. 4●. Vlebs vel maxime potestatem habet, vel dign●s sacerdotes eligendi, vel indignos recusandi. Answ. The places Math. 16. and 18. give, to some power ministerial to bind and lose, open and sue, by preaching the Gospel, and administering the Sacraments, as to stewards the Keys of an house are given: but this power is given to Elders o●ely, by evidence of the place, and exposition of all Divines. 2. If the ministerial power and the warrantable exercise thereof, be given to all; then are all Ministers; for the faculty and exercise doth denominate the subject and agent; but that is false by d 1 Cor. 4. 1, 2. 1 Cor. 3. 6. 2 Cor. 4. 1. 2 Cor. 5. 18, 20. 1 Cor. 12 28. Ephes. 4 11. Scripture. 2. That all the hundred and twenty did ordains Mathias an Apostle, Act. 1. is not said, they did nominate and present him. 2. they did choose him. But authoritative separation for the Office was Christ's and his Apostles work. 3. That women, and Mary the mother of jesus, v. 14. being there, had voice, and exercised authority in ordaining an Apostle cannot be orderly. Yea the Apostles names are se● down, and these words, V. 23. and they appointed two, are relative to v. 17. these words, For he was numbered with us the Apostles, and to these V. 21. Wherefore of these men which have companied with us, etc. and to these v. 22. must one be ordained to be witness with us of his resurrection, and they appointed two, that is, the Apostles; and the rest are set down as witnesses, v. 14. These continued, that is the Apostles, with the women, and Mary the mother of jesus, etc. The women and others were only consenters. 3. Here is no probation, that only a company of believers wanting Pastors are ordainers of Mathias to the Apostleship, and this is the question. 4. The place Act. 14. 23. proveth that Elders appoint or ordain Elder. with consent, or lifting up of the hands of the people, which is our very doctrine. 5. Act. 6▪ The multitude are directed to choose out seven men, as being best acquainted with them. Yet if Nicholas, the sect master of the fleshly Nicolaitans was one of them; it is likely they were not satisfied in conscience of the regeneration of Nicholas, by hearing his spiritual conference and his gift of praying, which is your way of trying Church-members. But 2. they look out seven men. 2. They choose the●. But v. 6. The Apostles prayed, and laid their hands on them (which we call ordination) and not the multitude. 6. Cyprian give●● election of Priests to the multitude, but neither Cyprian, nor any of the Fathers give ordination to them. Author Sect. 7. If the people have power to elect a King, they have power to appoint one is their name to put the crown on his head. Ergo, if believers elect their Officers they may by themselves or some others lay hands on them and ordain them. Ans. The case is not alike, the power of electing a King is natural, for Ants and Locusts have it, Prov 30 25, 16, 27. Therefore a civil Society may choose and ordain a King. The power of choosing Officers is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, a supernatural gift. And because God giveth to people one supernatural gift, it is not consequent that he should give them another, also beside ordination is another thing, than coronation of a King. Presbyters in the Word have always performed ordination. Manuscript. Neither will it hence follow (saith the Author) as some object (a) Way of the Churches of Christ in new England, ch. 1. sect 2. that because the Church of believers neither make the Office nor authority of Pastors, that both are immediately from Christ, and that therefore the believers may not lay hands upon the Officers; nor doth it follow, because they receive ordination from the Church, that therefore they should execute their Office in the Church's name; or that they should be more or less diligent at the Church's appointment, or that the Church of believers have a Lordly power over them, or that the Elders must receive their commission from the Church, as an Ambassador doth from the Prince who sent him, or that the Church in the defect of Officers may perform all duties proper to Officers, as to administer the Sacraments. For 1. most of the objections do strike as much against imposition of hands by Bishops and Presbyters. 2. Though Officers receive the application of their office and powerly the Church, yet not from the Church; and if from the Church, yet not from her by any Lordly power and dominion, but only ministerially as from instruments under Christ, so that they cannot choose or ordain whom they please, but only him whom they see the Lord hath fitted and prepared for them; nor can they prescribe limits to his Office, nor give him his Embassage, but only a charge to look to the Ministry that he hath received of the Lord. Ans. 1. I know none of ours who use such an Argument, that because a Pasters or Elders Office is from Christ, that therefore the Church cannot ordain him. For it should prove that the Presbytery cannot ordain him a Pastor, because his Office is from Christ and not from the Presbytery. It would prove also, that because the Office of a Judge is from God, that the free States of a Kingdom could not ordain one to be their King; or that the King could not depute Judges under him, because the Office of a King and Judge is from God, and not from men. 2. If Elders have their Ordination to that heavenly Charge from the people, as from the first principal and only subject of all ministerial power, I see not how it doth not follow, that Elders are the servants of the Church in that respect; and that though it doth not follow, that they come out in the name of the Church, but in the name of Christ, whose Ambassadors they are, yet it proveth well that they are inferior to the Church of believers. For 1. though the power of the Keys given to believers in relation to Christ be ministerial, yet in relation to the Officers whom the Church sendeth, it is more than ministeriail, at lest it is very Lordlike. For as much of this ministerial power is committed to the Church of possibly twenty or forty believers, as to the Mistress, Lady, Spouse, and independent Queen, and highest dispenser of all ministerial power; and the Elders, though Ambassadors of Christ, are but mere accidents or ornaments of the Church, necessary ad benè esse only, and liable to exauthoration at the Church's pleasure; yea, every way the Officers in jurisdiction are inferior to the Church of believers, by your grounds, and not over the people of the Lord. For if the Church of believers, as they are such, be the most supreme governing Church, than the Officers, as Officers, have no power of government at all, but only so far as they are believers; now if they be not believers (as it falleth out very often) then have they no power of the Keys at all, and what they do, they do it merely as the Church's servants, to whom the Keys are not given marriage-ways, or by right of redemption in Christ's blood: yea, Officers as they are such, are neither the Spouse, not redeemed Church, yea nor any part, or members of the redeemed Church. 2. The Church of believers are the ●od, the Officers means leading to the end, and ordained to gather the Saints; if therefore, as the end, they shall authoritatively send Officers, they should call and ordain Officers as the States of a Kingdom, with more than a power ministerial; Yea with a Kingly power, for all authority should be both formally and eminently in them, as all Regal or Aristocratical power is in the States of a Kingdom, as in the fountain. But neither do we bring this argument to prove a simple Dominion of the Church of believers over the Officers, or a power of regulating, limiting, and ordering the Ambassage of Officers, as King and State lay bands upon their Ambassadors; but we bring it to prove that this doctrine degradeth the Officers from all power of government above the believers, and putteth them in a state of ministerial authority under these, above whom Jesus Christ hath placed them, contrary to a jer. 1. 10. joh. 10. 35, 36. Rom. 12. 7, 8. 1 Cor. 12. 17, 18, 28, 29. Ephes. 4. 11. 2 Cor. 10. 8. 1 Thes. 5. 1●. Heb. 13. 17. 1 Tsm. 3 4, 5. 1 Tim. 5. 17. 19 20. 21. Acts 20. 28. Tit. 1. 5. 1 Pet. 5. 2. Revel. 2. 1. Scripture. 3. The Author saith, believers may not administer the Sacraments in the defect of Pastors, because that, by appointment of Christ, belongeth only to such as by Office are called to preach the Gospel, Math. 28. 29. which is indeed well said; but I desire to be satisfied in these. 1. These places Math. 28. 29. Mar. 16. 14, 15. Luke 24. 28. being all one with Math. 16. 17. and Joh. 20. 21, 22, 23. The Keys of the Kingdom are given to Church-officers because of their Office. So the Text is clear, and so the ancients have taught, as Tertullian, Irenaeus, Origen, Cyrill. Theophylact. Oecum●nius▪ Clemens Alexandrin▪ justin Martyr, Chrysost. August. Hilarius, Ambrose, Basil. Epiphanius, Jerome, Eusebius, Cyprian, Damascen, Beda, Anselm, Bernard. So our Divines, Calvin, Luther, Beza, Martyr, junius, Bullinger, Gualt●r, Daneus, Ti●enus, Bucanus, Trelcatius, Piscator, Pareus, Tossanus, Polanus, Decolampadius, Bucer, Hipperius, Viret, Zuinglius, Fennerus, Whittakerus, Feildus, Reynoldus, Anto. Wallaeus, Profess. Leydens'. Magdeburgersis, Melanthon, Chemnitius, Hemingius, Aretius. Then the Keys be given to Church-officers, because they are Officers, and Stewards of the Kingdom. And you will have the Keys to be given to believers as believers, and as the Spouse of Christ. Now Elders and believers may be opposed, as believers and no believers, as the Church of the redeemed, and not the Church of the redeemed, but the accidents only of that Church; as you teach, and as the Spouse of Christ and his body, and not the Spouse nor his body. I see not by our brethren's doctrine that Officers as Officers have any right title or warrant to the Keys, or to any use of them, seeing they are given to believers as believers, and as Christ's body and Spouse. 2. The place Matth. 28. 19 is against you; for you say, that Pastoral preaching and administration of the Seals are given only to such as are Preachers by office. Now the converting of infidels and other unbelievers, to make them fit materials of a visible Church, is not (as you say) the charge proper to Pastors as Pastors, and by virtue of their Pastoral charge, as baptising; by this place is their proper charge, because Pastors as Pastors convert none at all, nor can they as Pastors exercise any pastoral acts toward the un-converted; the un-converted by your way are under no Pastoral charge, but converted by Prophets, not in Office; Pastors as Pastors exercise all pastoral acts toward these only who are members of a visible Church, as toward these only who have professed by oath subjection to their ministry, ad are partakers of the precious faith, and are the sons and daughters of the Lord God Almighty. So you teach. So by this Text, Pastors as Pastors cannot convert infidels, and we desire a warrant from God's Word for the pastoral acts in converting soule●; yea, seeing by this place persons out of office only do convert souls by your doctrine, with all reason persons out of place should baptise, for teaching and baptising here, and by your own doctrine are of a like extent. See to this, and satisfy us in this point of such consequence as everteth the ministry of the New Testament, which we believe our brethren intent not, being so direct Anabaptatisme and Socinianism, points that, we know, our dear brethren do not love or affect. The Author addeth, He who said to the Apostles, Whose sins ye retain they are retained, and whose sins ye remit they are remitted, Joh. 20. 23. He also said to the Church, Whatsoever ye bi●● on earth shall be bound in Heaven. Math. 18. 18. Which is a Commission of the same power, and to the same ●ffect; and so the Apostles and the Churches both received the same power immediately from Christ: and therefore though the Church presented their Officers chosen by themselves to receive ordination from the Apostles, 〈◊〉 now when the Apostles are ceased, and no other successors left in t●●● room from whom their officers might receive ordination, but fr●● the Presbytery of their own Churches; where such a Presbytery is yet wanting, and is now to be erected, the Church hath full power to give ordination to them themselves, by the imposition of their hands. Answ. If the Reverend Author had framed an Argument here, it should have been thus: Those who have received immediately from God a Commission of the same power, and to the same effect, by the Text Math. 18. 18. Which the Apostles of our Lord received by the Text, Joh. 20. 23. These may do what the Apostles did in ordaining of Elders, seeing they are the successors of the Apostles, where there be no Elders. But the Church of believers received the same Commission, Matth. 18. 18. which the Apostle did Joh. 20. 23. and where Edders are wanting in the Church, the Church of believers is their successors. Erge. etc. First, the assumption is false; for if the Church receive the same Commission Math. 28. The Apostles received Joh. 20. and you must add Math. 28. 19 for the same Commission is given to the Apostles, Math. 28. 19 which is given Joh. 20. 23. But the Disciples received Commission, joh. 20. and Math. 28. of Pastoral binding and losing, and preaching, by virtue of their Office; and to administer the Sacraments in their own persons, as you grant: therefore the Church of believers received commission from Christ (where Presbyters are not) to preach by virtue of an Office, and administer the Sacraments in their own persons. Ergo, the Church of believers may, where there is no Presbytery, preach by verve of an Office, and administer the Sacraments. You will happily say, there is no such necessity of baptising as of ordination of Ministers, and baptising is incommunicable, because we read not that any in the Apostolic Church baptised, but Pastors. I answer, there is, in an extraordinary necessity where there are no Presbyters at all, as little necessity of ordination if there be Presbyters in other Congregations to ordain▪ And since you never read that any in the Apostolic Church ordained Pastors, but Pastors only; why, but we may have recourse to a Presbytery of other Congregations for ordination, as well as for baptising; for it is petitio principii, a begging of the question, to say that baptising is proper to Pastors, but ordination is not so. yea but ordination by precept & practice is never given but to Pastors, and Elders in consociation 1 Tin. 4 14 1 Tim. 5. 22. 2 Tim. 1. 6. 2 Tim. 2. 2, 3. Tit. 1. 5. Act. 6. 6. Act. 13. 3 Act. 14 23. 2. There is good reason why Pastors should be successors of the Apostles in the act of ordaining Pastors; & you grant, where Pastors and Elders are, they succeed to the Apostles in the acts of ordination; but that all believers men and women should be the Apostles successors to ordain Pastors, is a rare and unknown case of Divinity, for 1 Cor. 12. 29. Are all Apostles? are all Prophets? Yea, not long ago you said that Act. 1. an hundred and twenty, amongst whom there were women, had all hand in the ordination of Mathias to be an Apostle; so that believers by you are made the Apostles successors; and more, yea even co-ordainers, and joynt-layers on of hands with the Apostles. Yea, if believers received immediately this same Commission from Christ, Math. 18. which the Apostles received joh. 20. Believers are to ordain Pastors no less, when the Presbytery and Elders are present, then when they are absent; yea, and rather than the Apostles, because the Church of believers their patent passed the Seals first, even before the Lords resurrection. 3. It is good you grant that ordination and election are different, we will make use of it hereafter. The Author addeth, We willingly also acknowledge, where God Ib. sect. 8. hath furnished a Church with a Presbytery, to them it appertaineth by imposition of hands to ordain Elders and Deacons chosen by the Church; but if the Church want a Presbytery, they want a Warrant to repair to other Churches to receive imposition of hands to their Elders. 1. Because ordination is a work of Church power, now as Church hath power over another, so no Presbytery hath power over another Church then their own; All the Apostles received alike power, joh. 20. 23. 2 The power of the keys is a liberty purchased by Christ's blood, Math. 28. 8. Phil. 2. 8, 9 10. Therefore it is unlawful for any Church to put over that power into the hands of another. Answ. We desire a warrant from God's Word, where Elders, where they are present, are to ordain Elders by imposition of hands, and not believers; for ordination is a work of the Church; Officers are not the Church, nor are they parts or members of the Church, but only accidents; the Church hath its full being, the power and use of the Keys given to them by Math. 18. though there be not a Pastor or Officer among them; and if Christ before his resurrection gave the Keys to believers as to his Spouse, living body, and such as have Peter's faith Math. 16. Resolve us, we beseech you brethren, in this, how Christ can give the Keys after his resurrection, joh. 20. 23. to the Apostles as Pastors, and as no believers, not his Spouse, not his body; for Officers, as Officers, are not the redeemed of God, nor Christ's Spouse. If you say that Christ, joh. 20. gave the Keys to his Disciples as believers, than he gave the power of baptising after his resurrection also, by the parallel place Math. 28. 19 to the Apostles as to believers. Hence 1. Christ hath never given the Keys to Officers as Officers. 2. The place joh. 20. is but a renewing of the Keys given to the Church, Math. 16. and Math. 18. and all believers are sent and called to be Pastors, as the Father sent Christ, and as Christ sent his Apostles, as our Lord speaketh, John 20. 21. This I think all good men will abhor, though M. Smith saith these words, and that power john 20. 21. was given to Cleo●has and Mary Magdalen. And by your way, Paul (as I think) without warrant interdicted women of the use of that power, that Christ purchased by his blood. 3. There is no warrant of the Word to make good, that Christ gave the Keys to Officers as Officers, by your way, but only to Officers as to believers; and therefore believers ought rather to ordain Pastors then the Officers, though there be Officers to ordain. 3. That Pastors of other Congregations may not ordain Pastors to Congregations, who have no Pastors of their own. as they may baptise infants to them also, we see no reason. Yea, and Church power is not a thing that cannot be communicated to another Church by your Doctrine, for ye grant members of one Congregation may receive the Lords Supper in another Congregation, except you deny all communion of sister Churches, for it is a work of Church power to give the Lords Supper to any, then if you give that Sacrament to members of another Congregation; consider if the liberty purchased by Christ's Blood be not communicable to other Churches. Thirdly, (saith he) if one Church repair to another Church for ordination, they may submit to another Church for censuring of offenders, now how can Churches censure these that are not members? Is not this a transgression of the Royal Law of government? Mat. 18. 15, 16, 17, 18. Answ. The offence being great, and the offender deserving to be cast out of all the visible congregations round about, yea and to be bound in Earth and Heaven, the congregation is to have recourse to all the congregations consociated, when they are convened in one presbytery; that they, being convened in their principal members, may all cast him out, because it concerneth them all: as if only one congregation do it, they transgesse that royal Law, Quod omnes tangit, ab omnibus tractari debet. 2. The Author granteth, that the Church presented Vbi sup. sect. 7. c. 2. their officers chosen by them, to receive ordination from the Apostles; Ergo, The Church did give a way their liberty of ordination, bought by Christ's blood, to the Apostles, not as to Apostles, but as to pastors: which is against our brethren's Doctrine; for except the Apostles be said to ordain Officers, as Pastors, and not as Apostles, our Brethren shall find none to be the successors of Apostles in the power of ordination, but only Believers; so Pastors have no power at all to ordain Pastors, the contrary whereof our Brethren teach. Now I come to the brethren's mind in their Questions. It was objected a Quest. 21. How can it be lawful for mere lay and private men to ordain Elders? they answer, the persons ordaining are the public assembly, and so cannot, in any congruity of speech, be called mere Laymen. I answ. Seeing they have no Church office, they can be nothing, but mere private men; For the unwarrantable action of ordination maketh them not public Officers. As if a Midwife baptise in the name of the Church, she is not a mere private person. 2. They say, The Church hath power from Christ for the greater, to wit, for Election; Ergo, she hath power to do the less, which is ordination; or ordination dependeth upon Election, and it is nothing but the putting of a person in actual possession of that office, whereunto he had right by Election. Answ. Ordination, by your own grant, is more than Election, for the Apostles ordained, Acts 6. and must have done the most, and the multitude elected the seven Deacons, Acts 6 2. Ordination is more than the installing of a person chosen, it is a supernatural act of the Presbytery separating a man to an holy calling, election is posterior to it, and is but an appropriation of a called person his Ministry, to such a particular flock. 3. Say they; Ordination may be performed by the Elders, where there be Elders, 1 Tim. 4. 14. yet it is an act of the whole Church, as Quest. 21. the whole man seeth, but by the Eye. Answ. Though you say, Pastors in the Church's name baptise, yet doth it not follow; Ergo, where Pastors are not, the Church of believers may baptise. 4. They object, when the Church hath no Officers, the prime grave m●n perform ordination; as Nu●. 8, The Israelites laid on Hands on the Levites, that is, some prime Man laid on hands. Answ. Israel wanted not Officers. 2. These prime Men are called the Congregation; Ergo, there is a representative Church. 5. They object; If B lievers may not ordain, it shall follow either that Officers may minister without ordination, against the Sripture, 1 Tim. 4. 14. Heb. 6. 1. or, by virtue of ordination received in another Church, they might minister. Now if this be, we establish an i●d●l●ble character of Papists, but if being called to another Church, there be need of a new Election, than there is need of a new ordination, for that dependeth upon this; Ergo, then ordination cometh by succession, but we see not what authority ordinary officers have to ordain Pastors to a Church, whereof themselves are not members. Answ. 1. That ordination be wanting, where Ministers are wanting, is extraordinary, and not against, 1 Tim. 4 14. No more than that one not baptised for want of a Pastor should yet believe in Christ. 2. We see no indelible Character, because a Pastor is always a called Pastor; if the man commit scandals, the Church may call all his character from him, and turn him into a mere private man. But to renew ordination, when election to another congregation is renewed, is to speak ignorantly of ordination and election: for election maketh not the man a Minister, nor giveth him a calling, but appropriateth his Ministry to such a flock. But they speak of Election to a charge as of marriage, which is not well understood, for by marriage a man is both made a Husband, and a Husband to this Wife only: by election a Pastor is not made a Pastor, by ordination he is made a Pastor of the Church Universal, though he be not made an Universal Pastor. 3. The ordination by succession of Pastors, where Pastors are, you hold yourselves. But a popish personal succession, we disclaim, as well as you do: The 5. Objection I omit to another time. The 6. * 6. Reas. ib. Objection is; If there be a magistrate before, the succeeding magistrate receiveth keys or (word from the preceding magistrate: but if there be none, he receiveth them from the people. So here. Answ. Christ's calling is not ordered according to the pattern of civil governments, his kingdom is not of this world. People may both ordain and elect to a civil office, without consent of the preceding Magistrate. But we read of no officers ordained by the people, only in an ordinary way. Ordination (say they) is not of such eminency as is conceived, it is not mentioned in the Apostles first commission, Mat. 28, 19 Mark 16. 15, 16. The Apostles accounted preaching and praying principal. So a Perkins. on Gala. Perkins b Willet synop. con. 1. 4, 3. p. 371. Willet c Whittaker de eccles. q. 5. c. 6. Whittaker, d Ames. Bel. l●m. enerv. de cler. l. 3. de ordin. c. 2. Amesius. Answ. So answer Arminians e Apol. Remostran. c. 21. ●. 227 missio seu ordinatio Episcoporum non est ●am necessaria in ecclesia constitute. and so doth the Socinian f Nicola●d. in d●s●tract. de miss. min. c. 1. ●. 144. In c●●ombus Apostolorum, quibus describuntur om●●●. quae pertinent ad constituend●● Episcopos & Doctores, quon●am nulla sit mentio missionis (ordinatio is;) h●nc concludinus eam ad ips● muneris Episcopalis substantiam & naturam nul●o modo requi●i. Theol. Nicolaides, and g Socinus in loc. ad Rom. 10. Socinus; and so in your words saith h Ostorodius in de sens. de Eccles. & miss. Ministr●. adversus M●edzeboz. c. 1. f. 10●. &. c. 2. falsum est Apostolos semper requisivisse in Ministro ordinationem. to reform, but this is not to take away the necessity of ordination, by Pastors. I come now to answer, what Mr. Robinson doth add, to what is said for the ordination of Pastors by Pastors, and not by single Believers, Mr. Robinson i Robin's. Ins●i●. p. 325, 326. saith, the question is, whether succession of Pastors be of such absolute necessity, as that no Minister can in any case be made but by a Minister, and if they must be ordained by pope's, and prelate's. Answ. But we say that this is no question at all, we affirm ordination of pastors not to be of that absolute necessity, but in an exigence of necessity the election of the people, and some other thing, may supply the want of it. Nor do we think a calling from papists no calling, as we shall hear: before I proceed this must be discussed. Q. 5. UUhether Election of the people be essential to the calling of a Minister. ●. Election we are to consider, to whom it belongeth of right. 2. The force and influence thereof to make a Church-officer; but let these considerations first be pondered. 1. Consid. Election is made either by a people gracious and able to discern, or by a people rude and ignorant; the former is valid, Jure & facto, the latter not so. 2. Consid. Election is either comparative or absolute; when Election is comparative, though people have nothing possibly positively to say against a person, yet though they reject him and choose one si●ter, the Election is reasonable. 3. Consid. People's Election is not of a person to the Ministry as a Wilis choice of a man to be a Husband, but of a Minister; Election doth not make a Minister. 4. Consid. Election is either to be looked to, quoad jus, or, quoad f●ctum. A people not yet called externally, cannot elect their own Minister, a Synod or others of charity (as Reverend Junius a junius contra Bellarm. de Cl●r. l. 1. c. 7. saith) may choose for them, though, de facto, and in respect of their case, they cannot choose their own Pastor. 1. Conclus. The people have Gods right to choose, for so the b Acts 15. 22. 1 Cor. 16. 3. 1 Cor. 8. 19 Acts 6. 6. Acts 14. 23. word prescribeth. So c Tertul. apol.. 39 Tertullian, d Cyprian. l. 1. epist. 4. ad soeli. presbyterum. Eyprian. Non blandiatur sibi plebs, quasi immunis à contagione delicti esse possit, cum sacerdote peccatore communicans & ad injustum atque illicitum propositi Episcopatum consensum s●um accommodans, etc. and d Cyprian cp. 9 c. 2. l. 2 ep. 5. nefas sine consensu po●uli: and this Cyprian writ an hundreth years before the Nicen Council. Bellarmine lo●ed hi● face e Bellarmine. to say this custom began in the time of the Nicon Council. It was not a consuetude f Cyprian ep. 17 Qu●d ipsum (inquit Cyprianus) videmus de Divina autoritate descender●; g Ignatius ep, ad Philadelph. Ignatius, It is your part, as the Church of God to choose the Pastor; 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. So speaketh he to the people of Philadelphia; and so speaketh h Ambros. ●p 32. quae est ad Valentin. Ambrose to Valentinian, Omitto, quia jam ipse populus judicavit, i Origen H●m. 6. ad c. 8. Levit. Origen: Requiritur ergo in ordinando sacerd te praesentia populi, etc. and his reason is Scripture, a pastor must be of good report. And k Chrysost. de sacerdot. l. 3. chrysostom saith, all elections of pastors are null, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, without the conscience of the people. And the Council of Nice did write this to the Bishops of Alexandria as l Theodoret bist. l. 1. c. 9 Theodoret saith, and the fi●st general council of Constantinople wrote the same to Daemasus, Ambrose, and others, as m Theodoret. bist. l. 5. c. 9 Theodoret also showeth n Concil. Africanum. The council of Africa is cited by Cyprian producing Scripture, as Acts 1. 23. Acts 6. to prove that the people had their consent in elections; and o Con. Chalcedon. 1. 6. the council of Chalcedon p Concil. Ancyr. c. 18. the council of Ancyron, and q Conc. Laodic. can. 5. & can. 13 of Laodicea; and the Popes own r Gratian. ex constis. 63 glossa ad regul. 29. Canons say this, s Nicolaus papa c. in nomine d. 23. so Nicolaus the Pope in his Decrees saith, the Clergy and people did choose the pope, Reliquus clerus & populus Romanus ad consensum nova electionis pontificis à Cardinalibus factae accedant. So t Gelasius pap. ad Phil. & Ser. epist. dist. 62. Gelasius the pope writeth to Philippus and Cernuti●● Bishops, so Stephanus ad Romanum u Dist. 62. archiepiscopum Rav●●natensem, is cited in the gloss to that purpose; in x Jvo Episcop. Carnatensis ep. 3. the Epistles of Ivo Bishop of Chartres, we being called, by the will of God, the Cle●gy and people of such a City, and this Pope Ur●●● practised upon Ivo. 2. Conclus. But elections in the ancient Church were not by one single congregation, but by the Bishops of divers other Churches. In the y Concil. Sardicens. ut ha besure. 3. dist. 65. council of Sardis, Si unum tantùm in provincia contigerit remanere Episcopum, suporstes Episcopus con●●care debet Episcopos vicinae provinciae. & cum iis orainare sibi comprovincales Episcopos; quod si id facero negligat, populus convocare debet Episcopos vicinae provinciae & peter's sibi rectorem. In the z Concil. Tolet, 12. can. 6. ut citatur cum long didst. 63. council of Toledo it was ordained, that the Bishop of Toledo might choose in quibustibee Pr●vinciis, in any provinces about Bishops to be his successors, salvo privilegio unius●njusqu● provinciae. Cardinal's are forbidden to usurp to choose a Bishop, if the see face in the time of a general Council, this was enacted in the council of * Council, Constan. Sess. 24. Constance and a Concil. Basil. Sess. 37. Basil. The Abbot of Panormo saith, it was obtained of the council of Carthage b In c. licet de electione dist. 2. to avoid dissension, that they should transfer their right to the Cardinals. So c Jac. Ahnain de potest. Eccles. Almain and d Ja. Gerson de potest Eccles. Gerson prove the equity of this by good reasons. That wicked council of Trent, labouring to exalt the pope's chair, did abrogate these good acts to the offence of many, as the Author e Review of the Council of Trent. l 4. c. 1. of the review of the council of Trent showeth; nor should good men stand for Leo his abrogation of what the council of Basil did in this kind, as may be seen in that wicked council of Lateran f Concil. L●teran. wherein much other wicked power is given to the pope and his Legates by julius III. and Paul the III. and Pius the FOUR and g Theodoret. l. 5. c. 23. Theodoret saith, all the Bishops of a Province ought to be at the ordination of a Bishop. The ordination of the worthy, Ambrose, as he h Ambros. Epist. 82. himself saith, was confirmed by all the Bishops of the East and West. Cornelius' Bishop of Rome was confirmed by the Bishops of Africa. More of this may be seen in i Zonara's in Con. Laodic. c. 1. & 5. Zonaras, In k Theol. hist, l. 1. c. 9 Theodoret l Concil. Carthag. an. 418. the council of Carthage and m Petru● a Navar. de rest. ablator. l. 2. c. 2. Petrus a Navarre, who all witness ordination of a Bishop was never done in the ancient Church by one single Congregation, and these destitute of pastors and Elders. The learned say, that Gregory the VII. or Hildebrand did first exclude the people from voicing in elections of pastors. Illiricus saith only from the time of Frederick the XI. about the year, 1300 they were excluded from this power. And though it were true, that the election of Alexander the III. was made 400 years before that, by the Cardinals only, without the people's consent, the Law and Logic both say; from one fact no Law can be concluded. Yea the election of Gregory the VII. (saith n Vasquez 3. 〈◊〉. 3. disp. 144. c. 5. vum. 55. Vasquez) was five hundred years before that, and like enough that such a monster and such a seditious head to the Lords anointed to Henry the IIII, as this Gregory was, could violate Christ's order. o Platin. i● vit. pontis. Platina saith so; yet Bellarmine, Suarez and others grant, in the Apostles time it was so; b●● because it was a positive Law (some say) and others that it was a Church constitution, not a divine Law, the Pope might change it. Yet the Jesuit Sanctius p Sanctius con. Acts 14. 22. in his comment proveth it from Scripture, q Azorius Instit. moral. par. 2. l. ●. c. 26. Azorius saith, it should be common Law, communi jure, r Krantius metropol. l. 8. c. 8. Krantius layeth the blame of wronging the people in this, on Gregory the IX. yea s Concil. Bracar. c. 2. the council of Bracare, the t Concil. Nic. 11. ca 3. second council of Nice; The council of Constantinople. 4 called the eight general Council u Concil. Constant. 4. c. 28. the council of * Conc. Laodic. c. 13. Laodicea are corruptly expounded by x Bellarm. de cha.. 1. c. 2. & l. de ordin. c. 9 Bellarmin. y Vasquez in 3. ●om. 3. de sacra. dis. 144. c. 5. V●squez and others: because. 1. They forbid only disorder and confusion. 2. That all the multitude, without exceptionosage, gifts, or sexes, should come, and speak and voice at the election. For in the council of Antioch z Concil. Antioch. it is expressly forbidden that the multitude should be debarred. And we will not deny but a pastor may be sent to a Church of Infidels that knoweth nothing of Christ, without their knowledge, as a Ruffinus Histor. l. 10. c. 9 Ruffinu● saith, that Frumentius was ordained Bishop to the Indians, they knowing nothing of it, Indis nihil scientibus neque cogitantibus. Epiphanius writeth to john Bishop of jerusalem, that he had ordained Paulinianus a presbyter, the people not consenting. Gregorius ordained Augustine Bishop of England and sent him to them to teach them, Anglis nescientibus. And Gregorius II. ordained Bonifacius a Bishop to be sent to Germany, Germanis nihil de eare cogitantibus. And thus b Perkins on Gal. 1. 8. Perkins, if the Gospel should arise in America, where there were no Ministers, ordination might be wanting. And why not (say I) election also in another case, if as c Peter Martyr on Judg. c. 4. v. 5 Petrus Martyr saith well; a woman may be a Preacher of the Gospel; Yea, and a Turk (saith d Zanchius come. in, Eph. 5. Zanchius) converted by reading the New Testament, and converting others, may baptise them whom he converteth, and be baptised where both ordination and election should be wanting: and this may answer what e Robinson justification of separ. p. 338, 139, 340. Robinson saith for ordination by the people. Nor did the people first begin to have hand in election in f Tertulliam Apologer. c. 30. Tertullia's time, as Bellarmine saith, nor yet that the people might love their Bishops, nor yet by mere custom. Conclus. III. It is false our g Quest. 20. Brethren say, that the calling of a Minister consisteth principally and essentially in election of the people, for the Apostles were essentially pastors, yet not one of them, except Mathias was chosen by the people. 2. If, as our Brethren say, the peoples after acceptance may supply the want of Election at first, as Jacob's after consent to Leah made her his Wife, yet all the pastoral acts of Word, Sacraments, and censures going before the after consent shall be null, because he wanteth that which most principally and essentially is required in a calling. And all baptised by him must be rebaptised. And what if the people shall never assent, and it is ordinary that hypocrites in hearts will never consent to the Ministry of a gracious pastor, shall his acts of converting, and baptising be no pastoral acts, and to the hypocrites no pastoral acts: and shall all be Infidels, who are baptised by him? The people are not infallible in their choice, and may refuse a man for a pastor, whom God hath called to be a pastor; election maketh not one a pastor, in foro Dei, than he shall be no pastor whom God hath made a Pastor, because people out of ignorance or prejudice consent not to his Ministry. Nor are we of Dr. Ames judgement, that the calling of a Minister doth essentially consist in the people's election; for his external calling consisteth in the presbyters separation of a man for such a holy calling, as the Holy Ghost speaketh. We find no Church-calling in all God's Word of sole election of the people, and therefore it cannot be the essential form of a right calling. All the arguments of Doctor Ames prove, that election is necessary to appropriate a made Minister to such a Congregation, but concludeth not the poyn. Qu. 5. From whence had Luther, Calvin, and our blessed Reformers their calling to the pastoral charge? This question there is moved because of our Brethren, who think. 1. If ordination of pastors by pastors, be so necessary for an ordinary calling to the Ministry, and if Election of people be not sufficient, though they want pastors and Elders than Luther and our Reformers had no calling, for they were called by the Pope and his Clergy, for saith n Robinson justif. p. 119. Robinson when there be no 〈◊〉 Church-officers on Earth to give ordination, we must hold with Arrians, and expect new Apostles to give ordination; neither can a true, pastor go and seek a calling from a false pastor. Hence observe carefully the following distinctions, to obviate both papists cavillations and our brethren's doubts. 1. Distinct. That is. 1. Properly extraordinary, which is immediately from God, without any other intervening cause; so Moses his calling, when God spoke to him out of the Bush to go to Pharaoh and command the letting go of his people, was extraordinary, for, both the matter of the calling, and the persons designation to the charge was immediately from God Luther's calling this way was not extraordinary, because he preached no new Gospel, nor by any immediate calling from God. 2. That is extraordinary which is contrary to the Law of of nature. Neither the calling of Luther nor of Hus and Wiccliff was extraordinary; for, that any enlightened of God and members of the Catholic Church should teach, inform, o● help their fellow-members being seduced, and led by blind guides, is agreeable to the Law of nature; but according to our brethren's grounds Luther's calling here, was not only extraordinary, but unlawful and contrary to a Divine Law. For now when Apostles are ceased, Luher had no warrant (if our Brethren say right) no calling of God, to exercise pastoral acts of preaching, converting souls to Christ, and baptising through many visible Churches & congregations, because that is (say they) Apostolic; and no man now can be a pastor, but in one fixed congregation whereof he is the elected pastor. 3. That is extraordinary, which is beside a Divine positi●● Law. So that one should be chosen a pastor in an Island where there be no Elders nor pastors at all, and that the people only give a calling, is extraordinary, and so it is not inconvenient tha● something extroardinary was in our reformers. 4. That is extraordinary, which is against the ordinary corruptions, wicked and superstitious forms of an ordinary caling: so, in this sense, Luher and our reformers calling was extraordinary. 2. Dist. A calling immediately from God, and a calling from God, some way extraordinary, are far different. An immediate calling often requireth miracles to confirm it, especially the matter being new, yet not always; John Baptists calling was immediate, his Sacrament of Baptism beside the positive order of God's worship, yet he wrought no miracles, but an extraordinary calling may be, where there is an immediate and ordinary revelation of God's Will, and requireth not miracles at all. 3. Dist. Though ordinarily in any horologe the higher wheel should move the lower, yet it is not against ordinary art, that the hotologe be so made as inferior wheels may move without the motion of the superior. Though by ordinary dispensation of Gods standing Law, the Church convened in a Synod should have turned about Hus, Wicliff, Luther, to regular motions in orthodox Divinity; yet it was not altogether extraordinary, that these men moved the higher wheels, and laboured to reform them. Cyprian urged Reformation, Aurelius Bishop of Carthage, Augustin and the African Bishops did the like, the Bishop of Rome ●epining thereat It is somewhat extraordinary that Reformation should begin at Scholars, and not at principal Masters. 4. Dist. A calling may be expressly and formally corrupt, in respect of the particular intention of the ordainers, and of the particular Church, ex intentione ordinanris & operantis. Thus Luther's calling to be a Monk was a corrupt calling, and eatenus, and in that respect he could not give a calling to others. But that some calling may be implicitly and virtually good and lawful in respect of the intention of the Catholic Church and ex inte●tione op●ris & ipsius ordinationis, he was called ●o preach the Word of God. 5. Dist. Luther's Oath to preach the Gospel did oblige him as a pastor, this is his calling according to the substance of his Office, and is valid; but his Oath to preach the Roman Faith intended by the exacters of the Oath was eatenus, in so far▪ unlawful, and did not oblige him. Even a Wife married to a Turk, and swearing to be a helper to her Husband in promoving the worship of the Mahomet, or being a papist is engaged in an Oath to promote Romish Religion; if she be converted to the true Faith of Christ, needeth not to be married de novo, but remaineth a married Wife; but is not obliged by that unjust Oath to promove these false Religions, though the marriage Oath, according to the substance of marriage duties, tieth her. 6. Dist. A pastor may, and aught to have a pastoral care of the Catholic Church, as the hand careth for the whole body, and yet neither Luther nor Zuinglius are universal pastors, as were the Apostles. For they had usurped no power of Governing and Teaching all Churches: though, I profess, I see no inconvenience to say that Luther was extraordinarily called by God, to go to many Churches, to others then to Wittenberg, where he had one particular charge, yea even through Germany and the Churches of Saxony, and Zuinglius through the Helvetian and Western Churches, which yet doth not make them essentially Apostles, because. 1. They were not witnesses of Christ's Death, and Resurrection, which as a new Doctrine to the World, as Apostles, they behoved to preach, Acts 1. v. 22. They only revealed the old truth borne down by an universal Apostasy. 2. Because they were not immediately called, nor gifted with divers Tongues. And the like I may say of Athanasius, for men in an extraordinary apostasy to go somewhat farther than to that which a particular Church calleth them to, is not formally apostolic, yet lawful. 7. A calling to the Ministry is either such as wanteth the essentials, as gifts in any messenger, and the Church's consent, or these who occupy the room of the Church, the Church consenting, such a Minister is to be reputed for no Minister. Or. 2. An entry to a calling, or a calling, where divers of the Apostles requisites are wanting, may be a valid calling, as if one enter as Caiphas who entered by favour and money, and contrary to the Law was Highpriest but for a year: ●yet was a true Highpriest, and prophesied as the Highpriest. 8. If the Church approve by silence, or countenance the Ministry of a man who opened the Church door to himself, by a silver key, having given the prelate a bud. The ordinance of God is conferred upon him, and his calling ceaseth not to be God's calling, because of the sins of the instruments both taking and giving. 9 Though Luther was immediately called by Men An. 1508. by the Church of Wittenberg as may be seen a Tom. 9 Wettenber. p. 104. in his writings as Gerard b Gerard. lo●cem. to. 6 the minister. eccles sect. 8 p. 148. showeth, and the Jesuit Becanus c Be●an. in opulc de voc. min N T thil. 48. p. 128. saith, he was called and ordained a Presbyter, and so had power to preach and administer the Sacraments, yet that hindereth not that his calling was ●●t from the Church, whereof he was a member, that is from the Roman Church, and from God, and that his calling to cast down Babylon was not from the Church of Rome: and his gifts being extraordinary. 2. His Spirit heroic and supernaturally courageous, and so extraordinary. 3. His Faith in his Doctrine great, that he should so be blessed with success in his Ministry extraordinary, his calling in these considerations may well be called extraordinary, though not immediate or apostolic. 10. Then we may well acknowledge a middle calling betwixt an ordinary and every way immediate calling, and an extraordinary and immediate calling, for the calling of Luther was neither the one, nor the other, in proper sense, but a middle betwixt two; and yet not an immediate calling. See d Saddeel adversus articul. Burdegal●uses Art. 5● p. 502. Sadaecl and e Paraeus come. 1 ad Rom. 〈◊〉. 11. The question, if such a pastor be called lawfully, is a question of Fact not a question of Law; as this, if such an one be baptised and there be an invincible ignorance in a question of Fact which excuseth. And therefore we may hear a gifted pastor taken and supposed by the Church, to have the Churches calling, though indeed he received no calling from the Church, at his entry. 1. Conelus. To show that our Church was a visible Church before Luther arose, and that our Reformers were lawfully called o● God, and h● Church, is a question of Fact: and cannot be proved by the Word of God. Because the Word of God is not a Chronicle of these who were the true Church and truly called to the Ministry since the Apostles departed this life. 2. Because these must be proved by Sense, and the Testimony of humane writings, who can err. 2. C●nclus. Yet may it be gathered from humane writers, that the visible Church of Protestants this day, hath been since the Apostles days. I mean the determinate persons may be known by humane reasons and signs; as. 1. If Orthodox Doctors are known to have lived in all ages since the Apostles it is likely that there was a visible Church, which approved of these Doctors; and if we teach that same Doctrine in substance, that these Doctors did, then hath our Church, this determinate Church, been since the Apostles time. But Orthodox Doctors are known to have lived in all age's as men of approved learning and soundness in the Faith; Ergo, our present Church visible hath continued since the Apostles time. The proposition is probable, for these Fathers would not be so renowned, if the Church about them had not approved their Doctri●. It is probable (I say) because the writters against them have been suppressed, false Teachers have beeve spoken of and renowned, and true Prophets ill reported of, Mat. 5. 11, 12. I prove the assumption; for there lived in the first age, john the Baptist, the Apostles, and Polycarpus, the Scholar of john (as they say) and Ignatius. And in the 2. age, justinus, Clemens Alexandrinus, Ireneus, Melito Sardensis, Theophilus. In the 3. age Tertullian, Cyprian, Dyonisius, Alexandrin, Methodi●s, Origen; It is likely they opposed purgatory, prayer for the dead, relics and the Pope's supremacy, which in their seed did arise in this age. In the 4. age were Eusebius Caesariensis, Basilius, Athanasius, Magnus Gregorius, Nissenus, Nazian. Macarius, Cyrillus Bishop of Jerusalem, Arnobius, Lactantius, Ep●phanius, Optatus Melivitanus, Hilarius, Ambrose, Prudentius, Hieronymus, Ammonius, Ephrem, Faeustinus. I think they opposed the infallibility of counsels, invocation of Saints, and the monastic life springing up in this age. In the 5. age were Anastasius, chrysostom, Augustine, Alexandrinus, Theodoretus, Leo, Socrates, Vigilianus, Cassianus, Prosper, Elutherius, Marcus eremita, Marius Victorius. We conceive these opposed the corrupt Doctrine anent freewill, sin original, justification by works, men's merits. In the 6. age were Fulgentius, Cassiadorus, Fortunatus, Olympiodorus, Gregorius Mag●●s, Max●ntius; These opposed the heresies of this age, as the Doctrine of worshipping Images, Indulgences, Satisfactions, Crossing, Pilgrimages, Service in an unknowen Tongue, Offerings for the dead, worshipping of Relics of Saints, necessity absolute of Baptism, the making the Sacrament a Sacrifice for the dead. In the 7. age being a time of Darkness very few, Isiodorus, and few others, here the holiest opposed the Pope's stile and place of being universal Bishop, and the abominable Sacrifice of the Mass. In the 8. arose Beda, Paulus Diaconus, Joann, Damascen, a superstitious Monk, Carolus Magus, Albinus; In this age came in Transubstantiation, the Sacrament of penance, and confirmation. It was an evil time. In the 9 age were Rabanus, Haymo, Re●igius, Hinaemarus, Pashasius, then extreme unction, orders, and marriage were made Sacraments. In the 10. age was Theophylact, Smaragdus, Giselbertus. In the 11. Anselm, Algerus. In the 12. School Doctors, such as Peter Cluniarensis, Alexander Alensis, Thomas Aquinas, Scotus, at length Luther and Melanthon came, but from these we build no infallible argument to prove our Church to be the true Church. 2. The very visible Church that now is, was in the Waldenses. 1. One of their own writters a Raynerus rerum Bohemic. script. p. 222. 223. Rainerus saith, quod duraverit à tempore Sylvestri, alii dicunt quod à tempore apostolorum, a Novator set out by the Jesuit Gretserus b Petr. Pilichdorff. contra ●●aldenses c. 1. Petrus Pilichdorffius saith, they arose eight hundereth years after Silvester in the time of Innocentius the 2. In the City of Walden in the borders of France one arose, who professed voluntary poverty, and because they were against preaching of the Gospel, he and his followers were excommunicated, but he is found a liar by popish writters who lived long before Innocentius the 2. and make mention of them. The articles of john Hus, saith c Aneas Silvius hist. Bohe●. c. 35. Aeneas Silvius, cum confessionibus Calvinianorum consonant, and Silvius is not our friend. I grant d Gretserus in exam. plessaeani mist. c. 63. Gretser denieth this, that the Faith of such as are called Calvinists agreeth with the articles of Hus; because he will have them grosser e Flaccius in Catalogue. Testim. verit. Flaccius saith these Waldenses called Leonistae, their Doctrine was spread, per L●mbardiam, Alsatiam, totum tractum Rhenanum, Belgicam, Saxoniam, Pomeraniam, Borussiam, Poloniam, Luciniam, Sueviam, Silesiam, B●h●miam, Moraviam, Calabriam, & Siciliam. Carolus Lotharingus f Petr. Ram. Epist. ad Lotharing. ann. 1 570. the Cardinal complaineth, as also g Hegesippus apud Euseb. l. 3. c. 32. Hegesippus, that for sixteen ages since Christ, the first only was of God, and of the Church was a Virgin. And none made these complaints, but these who were Waldenses. So also complaineth h Lactantius div. Instit. l. 5. c. 2. Lactantius, and i Pelusiot. l. 3. Ep 408. Isiodorus pelus●ota: Why did l Costerus. cont. Causab. p. 21. Costerus taking on him to prove the succession of the Roman Church for 1400 years, leaves 300. years blank, where he cannot find his Mother Church; and yet m Nicephor l. 2. c. 40. Nicephorus saith Simon Zelotes preached the Gospel in Maur●tania & Aphrorum regione, even to Britain, that is, to the end of the Earth, yea Balaeus, Flemingus, Sirop●s say, that joseph of ●rimathea preached in Bri●taine, and n Britannoru loca Romanis i●accessa (id est. Scotia) Christo subdua sum advers. Judeos c. 6. 7. Tertullian in the second century which was his own time saith the like. See the o C●nt 1. l 2. Centuriasts, yea and p Baron anna. An. 183. sect. 6. Barontus, and q Origen hom. 4. in Ezech. Origen about an. 206. saith the same; and Jerome r Hierom. ad Euagrium. an. 407. Gattia, Britannia, Africa, Persis, oriens India, & omnes Barbarae nationes u●um Christum adorant, & unam observant regulam veritatis. What were all these but such as after were called Waldenses? And in the first ages s Pius 2 Ep. 228. l. 1. Pius 2. saith, ante concilium Nicenu●● parvus respectus babitus fuerat ad Romanam ecclesiars; before the Nicen council little respect was ●ad to th'. Church of Rome. See this learnedly Demonstrated by the learned t Voetius disp. cause. papatus l. 3 sect. 2. Voetius, and his reason is good. Ignatius, Ireneus, justin. Martyr, Cl●m. Alexandr. Tertullian, Cyprian speak not one syllable of popery or popish articles; also Lucian, Porphyrius, Tryphe●, Cellus, Sosymus, Symmachus, julian, mockers of Reiligon would have spoken against transubstantiation, one body in many thousand places, worshipping of dead bones, the worshipping of a Tree, Cross, and dumb images, and bread, a Pope who could not err, and they would have challenged and examined miracles, and I add if they scoffed at the Doctrine of these called after Waldenses as the confession beareth, than were the Church of Waldenses (though not under that name) in their time. The Jews objected against the Father's Tatian, Theophilus, Athenages, justin, Tertullian, Alexand. Cy●rian, chrysostom, Isiodorus, Hispalensis, julianus Po●nerius, They objected all they could devise against the Christian Faith, but not a word of points of popery now controversed; Ergo, popery hath not been in the World then, a. 188. In the Time of Victor many opposed victor's Tyranny: and as Plessaeus w Plessaeus in myster. iniquit. c. 2. and Doctor Molineus x Molin. de novitate papismi. c. 3. l. 1. part. 1. saith, were called Schismatics therefore, and excommunicated. Neither can Gretserus y Gretser. exam. myster. bless. ●. 3. nor Bellarmine z Bellarm de pontiff. Ro. l. 2. c. 19 defend this, but by lies and raylings. Yea from the 4. to the 7. age (saith a Vo●t. disp cause popat. l. 3. sect. 2. Voetius) produce one Martyr, professor, or Doctor. See Augustine de side ad Petrum, Ruffinus his exposition of the Creed, G●nnadius of the Articles of the Church, Theodoret his Epitome Divinorum decretorum, Cyrillus his tract de fide, and produce one holding the popish Faith. b ●l●m. Roman. ●●nstit. l 6. c. 14. Clemens Romanus and Elutheri●s c Eleuther. in the Epistle to the Bishops of France maketh all Bishop's pastors of the Church universal. Any who readeth d Gretser, exam. bless. myster. c. 21. 16. c. 24. Gre●serus against Pl●ssie may see in the 4. age that Baronius and Bellarmine cannot descend, that appeal was made to the Pope in the council of Carthage, yea the Pope's Legate brought Apiarius to the Council, that his cause might be judged there, because the Pope could not judge it, and that the Council of Chalcedon was, per precepta Valentiniani, convened. and that Canstantinople was equal with Rome. That Simplicius, G●lasius and Symmachus were Judges in their own cause, and that Hormisda an. 518. had no command over the Oriental Churches, as may be seen in e Baron. An. 118. p. 70. Baronius. So Pelagius the 1. joan. the 3. and Pelagius the 2. were refused the honour of universal Bishops, and could not help the matter; See f Gretser. exan. m●st. bless. c. 30. Gretser, and g Honorius. Honorius must be defended as not denying two wills; and two natures in Christ. See what saith B●ronius of this. The council of h Concl. Constant. An. 754. Constantinople would not receive the worshipping of Images. The best part of the Western Churches were against it. The Churches of France, Germany, Italy, Britain. The i Concl. Francosurtens. council of frankford, of k Concil. parision. An. 1596. Paris, so did they all refuse the power of the Pope. So Occam, Gerson, Scotus, in most points were not papists. Nor Cajetan, Contaren, Alm●in, joa, Major, Caranza. Therefore said l Thuanus' histor. l. 5 p. 460. doctrinam (Haldensium) per intervalia intermortuam renovavit. Thuanus the Doctrine of the Waldenses were now and then renewed by 〈◊〉 and Hus, and when Hildebrand came in, all know what wicked new points he brought in, as in the Tomes m Concl. ●om. 3 par. 2. p. 1196. of the counsels may be seen; and n Onuphrius in Gregor. 7. vita. Onuphrius saith, quod major pars antea parum in usu fuerit; The greatest part of his novelty not heard before, or little in use. His Tyranny upon the consciences of Churchmen forbidding marriage: and over the Lord's people may be seen in o Sleidan hist. 1. 5, period. c. 8. Sleidan p Lampad. in Me●●isic. hist. p. 3. 204, 205. In Lampadius, and his form of excommunicating the Emperor as it is written by q B●rur●edensses de vit. Greg. Beruriedenses and r Sigon. de regno ●tal. l. 9 Sigonius, s Avent. l. 5. p. 563, 564. also Aventinus, t Geroch. Reichers l. 2. de investig. Antichrist. Gerochus Reicher sperge●sis t Orthuin. Grat. in fasciculo rerum expetendarum, &. An. 1595. Orthuinus; Gratius and others can tell. But ere I speak of this monster head I should not have omitted humble Stephanus the 5. To whom Lodovick the Emperor, descending from his Horse, fell down upon the Earth thrice before his feet, and at the third time saluted him thus, blessed be the Lord God, who cometh in the Name of the Lord, and who hath shined upon us. As u Thegan. de gest. Lod. Imp. c. 16. Theganus saith that Pashalis excuseth himself to the Emperor Lod. That he had leapen to the Popedom without his authority, which saith, this headship is not supreme, as x Aimoin. l. 4. c. 105. Aimoinus saith, who was a murderer of Theodorus, The Roman Churches Seale-keeper and of Le●. for having first put out their Eyes, he then beheaded them, say the same Aimoinus, Gregory the 4. caused Lodovick the Emperor's sons to conspire against the Father and was upon that plot himself. Sergius the 2. made an act that a Bishop should be convinced of no fault but under sevety and two witnesses. Siconulphus a Prince desiring to have this Pope's blessing, came to Rome and kissed (saith y Gretser. exam. bless. myster. c. 37. Gretserus after z Anast. in ●ergio. Anastasius) his precious feet. Anguilbert Archiepisc. Mediolanensis departed out of the Roman Church for the pride of Rome, and Simon of Sergius, saith Sigonius, a Sig. de reg●● Ital. l. 5. It was ordinary for all, saith b Anast. in Leu. 4. Anastasius, to kiss the seat of Leo the 4. Platina c Platin. in vit. L●on. 1. saith, he was guilty of a conspiracy against Gratianus a godly and worthy man, to expel the Frenchmen out of the Kingdom and bring in the Greciane●. Gretser the Jesuit saith, their own Platina is a Liar in this. We all know there was an English Woman-Pope called joanna, betwixt Leo the 4. and Benedictus the 3. Bellarmine, Baronius, Gretser, Lipsius will have it a fable. Platina a popish writer is more to be believed than they all, for he affirmeth it as truth. A great schism arose in the Church because Benedictus the 3. was chosen Pope without the Emperor's consent. The Emperor did hold the bridle and lead the Horse of Nicolaus the 1. d Grets'. in exa. mist. bless. c. 39 Gretser cannot deny this) he defended and maintained Baldvinus, who was excommunicated by the Bishops of France, because he ravished juditha the daughter of C●rolus Calvus. He pleaded that there was no reason; but the decretals of the pope's should be received as the Word of God, but because they were not written in the books of Church-Canons: for by that reason some books of the old and New Testament are not to be received as God's Word ( e Grets'. Ibid. Grets.) said, these Epistles were equal with God's Word, and said, they had, neither these Epistles, nor the Scriptutes authority from the holy Spirit, but from the Church. That the church was four hundred years ignorant of the authority of the Scriptures: that he himself was Jehova eternal, and that Gratianus had inserted it in his distinct. 96. That he was God. Adrian the 2. approved of Basilius his killing of Michael the Emperor his Father. f Onuphr. l. de pontis. et cardin. in praefat. Onuphrius who observeth 26. Schisms of antipopes thinketh Schismatic Popes, no pope's, as Benedict. 5. and 10 Honorius 2. Clement 3. Gregor. 8. Celestinus 2: Victor 2. Some Popes have been declared Heretics by papists, as g Concil. Pisanum, An. 1411. Gregorius 12. Benedictus 13. In the council, of Pisa●; and h Concil. Constan. Genebraid, Chron. ad Anno. 901. per annos sere 150. a joanne scilice● 8. ad Leonem 9 Pontifices circiter q●●quaginta ● virtute majorii desecerunt, apostatiei verius qua Apostolici. The Monk Mantuanus l. de Calam, Romae, templa, sacerdotes, altaria, sacra, coronae, Ignis, thur●, preces, coelum est venale Deusq. john 23. In the council of Constance; moreover Bonifacius 8. Sergius 3. Benedictus 7. Eugenius 4. john 9 and john 22. had no tolerable measure of learning to be priests, how then could they be universal prophets who could not err? Liberius was an Arrian (as i Athanasius Ep. ad Solitar. Alphonsus a Cast adversus haereses l. 2. c. 4. Athanasius and Alphons. saith) Zepherinus was a Montanist, as Tertullian k Tertullian adversus praxean. c. 1. saith. Honorius was condemned, for saying Christ had but one will, in l Tom. 2. Concil. Art. 13. general counsels at Constantinople, Marcellinus sacrificed to Idols as m Bell. de 'pon. Ro. l. 4. c. 8. Bellarmine confesseth; faelix was an Arrian and consecrated by an Arrian Bishop, (as n Hyerom. in cate-log. in Acac. Hieronim. saith) Anastasius was a Nestorian (as o Alphonsus' ● C●str. l. 1. c. 4. Alphonsus saith) john 22. said, souls did not see God until the Resurrection, as p Erasm. prae fat. ad Jrenae. l. 5. Erasmus saith) Innocentius 1. ordained the Eucharist to be given to Infants, as a Jesuit saith q Maldon. in Joan. 6. c. 14. to wit Maldonatus. All this is observed to prove the Church could not be in the Pope. 2. That the Waldenses were opposers of the pope, whose confession is set down by r Reginald in Calvino-Turk. l. 2. c. 5. Gulielmus Reginaldus Turco-papista: as s Vsserus de Eccles. Christ. suc. c. 6. p. 158. Vsserus saith, and cast to by t Great. ad Petr. Pilichd. p. 309. the Jesuit Gretser to the end of Peter Pilichdorffius his Treaties contra Waldenses, and u Reinerus. by Reinerus contra Waldenses, Their confession containing a condemning of the pope's Supremacy, unwritten Traditions, worshipping of Images, Invocation of Saints, etc. and all the Articles of popery. We know how well x Calvin Ep. 298. ad Waldenses. Ep. 244. ad Tolonos. Calvin thinketh of their confession y Great. in exam 〈◊〉. c. 5. The slanderous Gr●tser saith, that Wicliffe renewed their errors and taught this Article. D●u● debet obedire diabolo. God should obey Satan. But that faithful witness of Christ, hath no such thing in his writings. Many other points are objected to the Waldenses, but z Thuanus' H●jlor. l. 5. Thuanus saith, Reliqua quae à Waldensi●us affing untur, per invidiam assinguntur. Other lies and false Doctrines are laid upon them, but the a Magdeburgenses ●ent. 12. c. 8. p. 1206, 1207. Magdeburgenses set down faithfully the Articles that they held, which we own as the Truth of God. What b Sanderus de visibil Monarch. l. 7. An. 1198. Sanderus c Coccius Thesau tom. 1. l. 8. Art. 3. Coccius d Parsonius' de tribu● Anglie conversionib. p: 2. c. 10. and Parsonius objected to them that they Taught that carnal concupiscence was no sin. 2. That all oaths in any case are unlawful. 3. That the Magistrate may not use the sword. 4. That the Apostles Creed is to be contemned these and other calumnies are well refused by Usser e Usser de c●r. eccles. suc. c. 6. p. 158. 160, 161, 162, & 〈◊〉. and proved by the Testimony, that Papists gave of the Holy life of the Waldenses, to be but Lies and mere calumnies. These who of old (saith Serarius) f Serarius 〈…〉 5 were called Berengariani from Berengarius, are this day called Calvinists, and these who are this day (saith g joan Wendelstonus p 〈…〉 & declet. pe●t. joan, Wendelstonus) called Protestants, are novi, s●n G●rmanici Waldenses. The new Waldenses of Germany. Nec vero (saith h Usser. de Eccles. Christ. S●c. & stable. c. 7 p. 195. Usser, citing the foresaid Authors) justam a●l●●c causam videre p●ssimus, quam●brem horum majnum pudere nos debcat; we need not think shame of our forbearers the Waldenses. Whether did Berengarius feare Leo the 9 his unjust sentence of excommunication: but contrary to Victor the 3. he did stoutly plead that the Elements were a figure or sign of the body and blood of Christ, Ar. 1056. And before Nicol●us the 2. in a Synod at Rome before 113. Bishops, for the space of seven days he pleaded the same cause. So saith Albericus i Albericus cass●● in Chrom. l. 3. c. 33. Diacon. Cassinens. and k Sig●nius de regm Italic. l. 9 Au. 1059. Carolus Sig●nius. Yea, and he lest behind him in his age multitudes of his followers, so as Rome was not able to suppress the visible Church ever since her Cedar branches did spring up to the Clouds. And we know that the Faith of the Council of Trent, as pressed by Oath prescribed by Pius 4. and by the command of Gregorius 13. was not in the World the 10. age, Ambrose, Catharinus, Martinus, Isengrenius, Contarenus, the Sorbonists of Paris, and the Doctors of Venice, in many substantial points contradicted the Church of Rome: yea l Thuand. 3. p. 214. Thuanus m Aut●n. de dom. Archi Spalatens. l. 2. sect. 2. c. 2. and the Bishop of Spalleto teach that after the council of Trent the Reformation spread through the Christian World. In the 12. and 13. ages, the Doctrine of the Waldenses, of Wicliffe and Berengarius did grow, but few did write, (saith n Voetius disp. ca●. papat. l. 3. sect. 2. p. 634. Voetius,) in these times because of heavy persecution, multitudes in Germany Austria, Moravia, Silesia Leiden, Collen, Osenbruge, and many other parts opposed popery. Now we say there were multitudes professing the Truth, both of Doctors, Fathers, and witnesses opposing the Roman Church! and what calling the Church of Rome gave to our reformers must be measured by the best of the Church consenting to their c●l●i●g: for we are not to think that all professed popery, but many of the guides opposed, many were burdened in 〈◊〉 and yet out of weakness durst not profess, because of the 〈◊〉 ●●ea●nesse. 3. They durst not write and preach ag 〈…〉 n of the time. 4. Many were simple, many 〈◊〉. 3. 〈…〉 Luther and Zuinolius had their whole calling from the 〈…〉 ye● think we not that calling no calling, but that it hath that which essentially constituteth a Ministe. 1. C●j phas entered most c●r●n●●ly to the Priesthood, by the favour of men, and to be Highpriest for one year contrary to the Law, which ordained the highpriest to remain for his life-time. But as o Josephus Antiq l. 15. c. 3. josephus said p Tolet. come. in joan. 11. Toletus q Cajetan 16. Cajetan r Maldonat. Maldonat s janson. can. jansonius: yea and our own writers t Calvin. Calvin u Marlorat. Marlorat x Muscul. come. in joan. Musculus y Rollocus. Rollock z Bullinger. Bullinger observe, all was done by the will and lust of men; yet Cajaphas was the highpriest and prophesied, which is a specific act of a called Prophet. John, Ex. 51. 52. It is said, he prophesied as highpriest. 2. The Scribes and T●aisees set in Moses chair, and are to be heard, Mat. 23 1. In so far as they teach God's Truth, and yet their entry to their calling was corrupt, if it be true that divers say, that Christ, John 10▪ calleth the Scribes and pharisees. Thiefs and Robbers, because they came not in by the door, but climbed up another way, but however there was corruption in the way of their coming to the chair, for they leavened all other the Ordinances of God, and the high priest was entered a false way, the rest of the Rulers could not come, but in a corrupt way. But though Augustine a Augustinus contra. advers. leg. & pro. l. 3. c. 4. vencrunt a seipsis, non missi. and b Clem. Alex. Strom. 1. Non missi a Deo. Clemens Alexa●. expound the place, John 20. of such as want a lawful calling; but then the place cannot agree with Scribes and Pharisees, which seemeth to fight with the course of the Text. But our Interpeters c Brentius, bumanarum traditionum doctores. Brentius d Beza in loc. B●z● e Rolloc. come. ib. Rollocus, expound the place of these who preach not Christ sound, and to be the door and the foundation, but humane Traditions, and yet had a calling; and the Text saith so much, where v. 9 Salvation is promised to every one who entereth in by Christ the door, now salvation is not promised to a man, because he hath a lawful calling to the Ministry; he may have that and yet b●e a Child of perdition. 3. We are no where forbidden in God's Word to hear Teachers sent and called, but only Wolves in sheep skins, void of all calling, and intruders: for pastors may be antichristian in the manner of the entry, as Cajaphas. 2. In the matter of their Doctrine Teaching some of men's Traditions, in place of God's Word as Scribes and Pharisees. 3. Yea, and brook an antichristian calling, as prelate's do and have done in Brittain●, and yet their Ministry be valid. For that the calling of a Minister be valid, and his Ministerial acts not null, it is sufficient that the governing Church give him a calling, either by themselves, their express call, their silence, or tacit consent, or their approbation communicating with him in his Ministry, or by these to whom the Church resigned her power, or by these who stand in place of the Church; though prelate's invade the place of the Church: yet because first they themselves be pastors and have power to teach and Baptise as pastors called of Christ. Mat. 18. 19 2. Because they stand for the Church the Church approving, or some way by silence consenting (as in the case of Cajaphas' entry to the priesthood) thereunto. these who are baptised of them, are not rebaptised, and these who are ordained pastors by them are not reordained, but have a calling to the Ministry and do validly confer a calling upon others. Yea, many of great learning think that at the beginning of Reformation thousands being under popery baptised by Midwives and private persons, were never rebaptised, not that they think such Baptism valid, but where the Sacrament is wanting, ex invincibili ignorantia facti, out of an invincible ignorance of a fact, such that way baptised do indeed want the Lords Seal; but we cannot for that say that they are no better than Infidels and unbaptized Turks and jews, because. 1. Their being borne in the visible Church giveth a federal holiness, as all of Jewish parents had a federal right to circumcision, and were, eatenus, in so far, separated from the womb. 2. Because their profession of that Covenant whereof Baptism is a seal, separateth them sufficiently from Infidels, though they want the seal external. But our Divines esteem, and that justly, baptism administrated by Women, or such as have no calling, to be no baptism at all; for which let the Reader see a Calvin Inst. l. 4. c. 15. Sect. 20. Epst. 326. Calvin b Beza libel. quest. de baptism. Beza c Rive●●s in Cathol. Orthod. ●om. 2. tract. 2. q. 7. the learned Rivetus. We stand not for what d Bellarm. de baptism. c 7. Bellarmine e Maldonat. come. in joann. c. 6. v. 33. Maldonatus f Gretser. in cas. conscien. q. 4. the baptism. p. 17. 18. & seq. Gretserus and other papists say on the contrary: and also g Cajetan. come. in loan. 3. Cajetan and h Toletus in 3. An. 3. Toletus. 4. Robinson i Robin's. justific. p. 276, 277. and our Brethren acknowledge that the Church of Rome hath true baptism, for they retain the essential causes of Baptism, even as the vessels of the Lords house profaned in Babylon may be carried back to the Temple, but if these vessels were broken and mingled with brass and iron, and cast in another mould they could not obtain their former place in the Temple. Baptism is a vessel profaned in Babel, but not broken; but the ministry and priest hood of Rome is like the new melted and mingled vessel, and essentially degenerated from the office of pastorship. But I answer, if baptism be valid in Rome so are the Ministers baptizers, for if the Ministers and priests be essentially no Ministers, the baptism administrated by the Romish priests is no Ministry, and all one as administrated by Midwives and private persons, who therefore cannot administrate the Sacraments validly in the essential causes, because they are essentially no Ministers. If therefore Robinson will have the Romish priesthood essentially no ministry, by that same reason he must say, baptism administrated by Romish priests i● no baptism, the contrary whereof he confesseth: otherwise he must say baptism administrated, à non habente potestatem, even by Women and private Men, is valid, and cannot be but esteemed lawful in the substance of the act. 2. These have a ministry essentially entire who have power under Christ to preach the Gospel and administrate the Sacraments, Matthew 28. 19 The Romish priests have this, and are called to this by the Church. But saith Robinson. How can England forsake the Church of Rome, and forsake the ministry, which is in the Church, as in the subject, especially, seeing you teach that a true ministry maketh essentially a true Church? I answer, England may well separate from Rome everting the fundamental parts of Faith, and not separate from Rome's baptism, or ministry, in so far, as they be essentially the ordinances of Christ: and I retort this argument; How can Separatists separate from both us and Rome, and yet retain the baptism in both our Church and Rome. 2. A ministry true in the essence may make a Church true 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, in so far; but because of many other substantial corruptions in Rome, it is a Church which we ought to forsake. But saith Robinson, a Robinson justif. p. 316. Apostates in the 10. Tribes leaving the Church which was radically at Jerusalem, upon their repentance were readmitted to enter into the Temple, into which no uncircumcised person might enter, but any of the priests following Idols, were never readmitted to be priests, though they should repent; Therefore the ministry and baptism are not alike. I answer, that the true Church was only at Jerusalem radically, as, you say, would import that the 10. Tribes revolting from David's house ceased to be a Church, which is false: Israel though all the Land were in Covenant with God, had circumcision and the Passover, and so were a true visible Church, even when they did meet in their Synagogues. The Altar, sacrifices, Temple, are not the essentials of a visible Church, they were a Church, and did pray toward the Temple even in Babylon, and were to profess the True God before the heathen, jerem. 10. 11. 2. There be typical reasons to hinder men why they cannot be capable of the priesthood, that did not exclude them from Church state; but this hindereth not but if the seals administated by a Minister be true seals, then is the Minister thereof catenus, in so far, a true Minister. He addeth b Page 317. a Minister may leave off to be a Minister, and be justly degraded and excommunicated, but none ever attempted to unbaptize one who was baptised, nor can he be unbaptised who is baptised. Answ. That proveth a difference betwixt the ministry and Baptism, which is not the question; but it proveth not this to be false, if Rome's baptism be lawful in its essence, so is Rome's ministry. CHAP. 9 SECT. 9 Of the addition of Members to the Church. THE Author saith, a Church cannot consist of a fewer number Way of the Church of Christ in, N. E. Cap. 9 Sect. 9 than seven, since there must be four of them, a Pastor, Doctor, Elder, and a Deacon. Ans. And we contend not for number, but four may be a Church of your making, and in Church-covenant: for it is a wonder, that you require officers who by your Doctrine, cannot be parts of the Church, seeing you make them accidents of the Church, and teach that the Church, in its being and operation, is before any officers be ordained in it: the accidents of a subject, and a subject make not multiplication, Peter & his learning and whiteness make not two Peter's. And therefore seeing three believers may be united in your Church-covenant, they must be a Church: and seeing these four officers, a Pastor, an Elder, a Doctor, and a Deacon must be chosen by the Church, yea and ordained also (by your Doctrine) need they must have their ordination and lawful calling from three, and so these three must be their Church electing them; and a numerous congregation, we dislike with you. Author, These who are to be added, are to make known to the Elders their desire to be added, that they may be tried, if he be found graceless or scandalous, he is not to be presented to the Church; if no exception be against him, he confesseth his Faith publicly, and showeth the grace of God to his soul in drawing him out of the State of sin. Answ. 1. We read not that three thousand added to the Church at one Sermon, Acts 2. Nor any other that we read of, were in this manner and order added, and therefore this way we suspect. 2. You require in one to be added that he be not graceless and scandalous, to be free from scandals is visible and is required in a visible Church member, but grace is invisible and can be a note of a member of the invisible Church, but no ways a note of a member of the visible Church. The Apostles required it not in Simon Magus. The Author in the same place proceedeth to prove that none can be members of the visible Church, but such as be regenerated so far as the Church can discern. Hence our, 1. Quest. Whether the members of the visible Church be only visible saints, sons and daughters of the Lord God Almighty, temples of the holy spirit, etc. 1. Distinct. Any who blamelessly professeth Christ is Ecclesiastically, in foro Ecclesiae, a true and valid member of the Church visible, having Ecclesiastical power valid for that effect: but, except he be a sincere Believer, he is not morally and in fo●o Dei, a living member of the invisible Church. 2. Dist. That which is unseen is the form and essence of an invisible Church, and that which is visible must be the essential form of a visible Church. 3. Dist. The invisible Church Catholic is the principal, prime and native subject of all the privileges of Christians, the covenant premises, titles of Spouse, bride, redeemed Temple of the holy spirit, etc. And the Church visible as she is such, is no ways such a subject, the non-consideration whereof we take to be the ground of many errors, in our reverend brethren in this matter, which also deceived Papists, as our Divines demonstrate. 4. Dist. A seen profession is the ground of members admission to the visible Church. Hence there is a satisfaction of the conscience of the Church in admitting of members, either in the judgement of charity, or in the judgement of verity. 5. Dist. There is a satisfaction in the judgement of charity positive, when we see signs which positively assure us that such an one is regenerate: and there is a satisfaction negative when we know nothing on the contrary which hath a latitude: for I have a negative satisfaction of the regeneration of some, whose persons or behaviour I know neither by sight nor report. This is not sufficient for the accepting of a Church-Membership, therefore somewhat more is required. 6. Dist. There be three ranks of men here considerable. 1. Some professedly and notoriously flagitious and wicked; little charity may exclude these. 2. Some professedly sanctified and holy, little charity may accept and welcome such to the visible Church. 3. Some betwixt these two, of whom we have neither a certainty full and satisfactory to the conscience, that they are regenerate; nor have we any plerophory or persuasion, that they are in the State of nature. 7. It is no less sin to sadden the heart of a weak one, and to break the bruised reed, than out of overplus of strong charity, to give the hand to an Hypocrite, as a true Church-member. 8. Materially it is all one not to admit members of such a Church to your Church, as to separate from such a Church, and to Excommunicate such members: for it is a negative and authoritative leaving of such to Satan, if it be not a positive Excommunication. 9 There is a visibility of the Church by writing. 2. By Synods which meet for consultation, as our Brethren teach. 3. By Martyrdom. 4. The seen profession of many Churches, and these being without the bounds of a Congregation, it is not justice to restrict all visibility to one single Congregation. 10. Visible security, backsliding, over swaying predominants tolerated may consist with the Church, membership of a visible Church: 1. Conclus. These two be far different, (Hic vel in hoc satu est Ecclesia vera) there or in this company there is a true Church. And this (Haec est Ecclesia vera) this determinat company of such persons by name is a true Church) the former is true, where ever God setteth up his Candle, there be their Church-members of Christ's Body either actually or potentially; for as much as if their be no converts there at all, yet in respect of God's Decree which He beginneth to execute while as He erecteth a Ministry, certainly there must be some converted there at last. But as concerning the latter proposition, none can say certainly, such visible persons by name, john, Paul, Anna, Mary, etc. Are the true Spouse and redeemed of Christ, because, as Divines answer to Papists, we believe the Church of Christ rather than see it. Yea, the Spouse of Christ, as the true Spouse, is all glorious within, Psal. 45. 13. and that which essentially constituteth a Spouse of Christ, is not visible, but the hidden man in the heart, 2 Pet. 3. 4. Neither is there any Union of believers as believers visible. 2. Faith and true grace are not the essence of a visible Church, as it is visible, because nothing simply invisible can essentially constitute that which is visible. 2. Con. The invisible and not the visible Church is the principal, prime, and only proper subject, with whom the covenant of grace is made, to whom all the promises do belong, and to whom all Titles, Styles, Properties and privileges of special note, in the Mediator do belong. If our reverend Brethren would be pleased to see this, they should forsake their Doctrine of a visible constituted Church, of separation, of popular government, of independency, of parochial Churches, which they conceive to be the only visible Churches under the New Testament. 1. The Church, to whom the covenant, and the promises of the covenant are made, is an Church, and a seed which shall endure as the days of Heaven. Psal. 89. 35 36. and such as can no more fall away from being God's people in an eternal covenant with him, than their God can alter what he has spoken, or lic, Psal. 89 33, 34, 35. They can no more cease from being in God's Favour, or be cast off of God, than the ordinances of Heaven can depart from before God, than Heaven can be measured above, or the foundations of the Earth searched out beneath. Jerem. 31. 35. 36, 37. Nor the Mountains and Hills can be removed out of their places. Esa. 54. 10. Or the World can be destroyed, with the waters of Noah again: Or then God can retract his O●th and promise. Heb. 6. 18, 19, 20. But the visible Church of 〈◊〉 or that congregation or parish (as our Brethren say) of Rome, Corinth, Colosse, Thessalonica, Philippi, and the seven Churches of Asia, shall not endure as the days of Heaven, yea they are all this day under horrible defection of Antichistian Idolatry and Turkism and Judaisme: if it be said, the faithful and believing of the visible Churches at Rome, Corinth, Colosse, etc. could no more fall away, than the house of Israel and seed of David could cease to be God's people. I answer, this is to flee to the invisible Church; but the Professors of these visible Churches as Professors and in Church-state might fall away from the Church profession. If they say, they cannot fall from the sincerity of a true profession; now yet they are aside, and flee from the visible Professors, and Church's visibility agreeing to the Church as visible; to the Church's sincerity and invisible grace of constancy proper to the invisible Church, and by this meaning, none are the true visible Church, nor members thereof, but only such as have profession, and withal sincerity of profession; so Hypocrites, though never so fairly inchurched, have no power of the Keys, of censures of excommunication, of admitting of Church members, of Baptising, etc. All which is very Anabaptism, that there is no visible Church on Earth, but a company of truly, and (in foro Dei) regenerated and converted persons and the only redeemed of God; and. 2. Our Divines in vain contend with papists anent the visible Churches failing on Earth, for most certain it is (except we hold with Arminians, Socinians and Papists the apostasy of Believers) neither the catholic Church, nor a particular congregation of sincere Believers can fall into heresies and lose true and saving Faith. But we hold that there is not a visible Church consisting of only visible professors never so orthodox, but it may fall into fundamental heresies, and we give instance, in the sometime orthodox and visible Church of Rome which hath fallen from the sound Faith, and is become B●bel and a whore and mother of fornications. 3. A Church consisting of seven professors (which our Brethren in this place say, is a visible Church) may have four or five, yea six hypocrites in it, and yet the essence of a visible Church, the nature of a Church-state, Church-covenant, the power and use of the keys is 〈◊〉 in such a Church of seven: for it is certain, Professon, 〈◊〉 uniting themselves together in one Church-state, are not led by an infallible and apostolic Spirit, that they cannot err inconstituting a visible Church: but if they be fallible and obnoxious to error, then in erecting a Church of seven, five, six, and by the same reason all the seven may be (in foro Dei) in God's Court, yea and (in an ordinary providence now with relation to the state of man fallen into sin) often are unbelievers and unconverted persons, and yet a visible Church performing all Church-acts of a visible profession. Now if our brethren's grounds hold good, seven unbelievers are a company in covenant with God, and can no more fall from the covenant and grace thereof, then God can lie or alter that which is gone out of his mouth. 2. The Church with whom the covenant is made, and to whom the promises of the covenant are made, is the Spouse of Christ, his mystical body, the Sons and Daughters of the Lord God Almighty, a royal priesthood, a chosen generation, Kings and Priests to God: but this is the invisible Church of elect believers, not the visible Church of visible professors. Therefore the invisible, and not the visible Church, is the first subject of all the privileges of Christians, and all the promises of the covenant. The proposition is not doubted. I prove the assumption; The visible Church as it is such, is a company of professors of the truth, and cannot be, as it is such, the Spouse of Christ and his Body. 1. Because than Professors, as Professors, should be Christ's redeemed Body, which is openly false and against the Word of God: for Rom. 9 6. for they are not all Israel, which are of Israel. 2. Our brethren's argument is strong to prove, that the Church of Elders are not the true Church spoken of in the Word; For, say they, the true Church is a flock that Christ hath Redeemed with his Blood, Acts 20. 28. The Temple of the living God, 1 Cor. 3. But the Church of Elders is not a flock of redeemed ones, and Temples of the holy Spirit, but in so far as they believe, and are elected to glory, and not as a flock of Elders, are they redeemed: so they say, true Elders, as Elders, are not a part of the true Church, nor the Church to whom Christ gave the keys, Mat. 16. But the Church making Peter's confession. So say we, the Church of visible professors, as they are such, are not the redeemed of Christ, and Temples of the holy Spirit, but in so far as they are Believers and the elect of God. For if our Brethren say, the Church, as it is a company of visible Professors, is also essentially the Church of Redeemed ones, then only the Church of visible Professors, and all the Church of visible Professors are redeemed of God, but this is absurd and false. Quod convenit 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 convenit 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. Our Brethren acknowledge there may be an hundred Believers and Temples of the holy Spirit, who are a flock of redeemed ones, and yet not be a company of visible Professors. 1. Because they are not united (say they) covenant-ways into a Church-body. 2. (Say they) because of weakness and for fear of persecution, men may hide their profession as many do in the Church of Rome, and yet be the redeemed of God, and be the seven thousand who have not bowed their knees to Baal; and our Brethren cannot say, that all the visible Church are the flock redeemed of God, for than should there be no hypocrites in the visible Church. 3. In this our Brethren maintain one of the grossest points of the Arminian, Popish and Socinian Doctrine, even that all visible Professors are chosen to glory, redeemed of God, and the children of the promise, and that in God's purpose, the covenant of grace and the promises of the covenant are made to all and every one in the visible Church, and that God hath an intention that Christ shall die for all and every one of the visible Church, and that he inteneth to save all and every one of the visible Church. This I prove, for if th● covenant and promises of the covenant, if the styles of Christ's Body, his Love, his Spouse, his Sister and D●ve, if the revelation of Christ made not by flesh and blood, but by Christ's Father the ground of that blessed confession of Peter Mat. 16. 17. For which the keys were given to the visible Church, if I say all these be proper to the visible Church as visible, and due to her as to the first principal and prime subject, and not to the chosen redeemed and invisible Church as such, than the promises of the covenant, and all these styles belong to the visible Church, and God promiseth and intendeth a new heart and a new spirit to all visible Professors as such, and so he intendeth redemption in Christ and salvation, and Christ's Righteousness and Forgiveness of sins to all the visible Church. But our Brethren do not (I hope) think that God's intentions, are castles in the Air, and new Lands beyond the Moon, as if his intentions could be frustrated, and he could miss the white of the scope he shooteth at; for certainly these to whom the covenant, and promises thereof belong as to the prime and first subject, these are his covenanted people; now the orthodox and reformed Church holdeth, that the covenant and promises are preached to the whole visible Church, but for the elects sake, and that howsoever externally, the covenant of grace and promises be promulgated to every one, and all within the lists of the visible Church; yet they belong in God's Intention and gracious purpose only to the Elect of God, and his reseemed ones, to that invisible Body, Spouse, Sister, whereof Christ alone is Lord, Head, Husband, and Brother, and the first begotten amongst many Brethren. Hence let me reason thus. The Church whose gathering together, and whose unity of Faith, knowledge of the Son of God, and growth of the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ, the Lord intendeth by giving to them for that end, some to be Apostles, some Prophets, some Pastors and Teachers, Eph. 4. 11, 12, 13. must be the Church to which all the promises of the covenant and privileges do belong. But the Lord intendeth the gathering together, the unity of Faith, the knowledge of the Son of God and growth of the measure of the stature of Christ only of the invisible Elected and Redeemed Church, not of the visible professing or consesing Church, nor doth the Lord send Pastors and Teachers upon a purpose and intention of gathering the visible Church, and visible Israel, except you fly to the Tents of Arminians. I conceive these arguments cannot be answered. If any say, that Christ in giving Prophets, Pastors and Teachers to his Church intendeth to save the true visible Church of the chosen and redeemed, in so far as they are chosen and redeemed, now they who answer thus, come to our hand and forsake the Doctrine of their visible Church, and say with us, that the Ministry and the keys are given only upon a purpose on God's part to save the invisible Church, and that all these promises of the covenant, the styles of Christ's Spouse, Sister, Fair one, are not proper to the visible Church, nor any ground or argument to prove that the keys, the power of excommunication, ordaining of officers are given to the visible Church, as to the prime and principal subject. 4. The invisible Church; and not the visible Church as it is such, hath right to the Sacraments, because these who have right to the covenant, have right to the seals of the covenant; and this is Peter's argument to prove the baptising of Infants to be lawful, Acts 2. 38, 39 But only the invisible Church hath right to the covenant. For God saith only of, and to the invisible Church. and not of the visible Church in his gracious purpose, Jerem. 32. 38. And I will be their God, and they shall be my people, Jer. 31. 33. I will put my Law in their inward parts, 34. They shall all know me (all within the covenant) I will forgive th●ir iniquity. Now the visible Church as the visible Church is not within the covenant, therefore the visible Church as the visible Church, and being no more but the visible Church, hath not right to the Seals of the covenant, but in so far as they are within the covenant, and in so far as God is their God, and they his pardoned and sanctified people, as it is, jerem. 31. 33 34. 5. It is known that our Brethren here join with Papists, for Papists ignorant of the Doctrine of the visible Church, labour to prove that the visible Church on Earth, the Ministerial, Teaching and Governing Church, cannot err, but that she conver●ed in a visible Synod, and met in Christ's Name, hath a promise of an infallible assistance. And by what argumunts do they prove it? You know here Bellarmine, Pererius, Tolet, Stapleton, Bailies, Suarez. Vasquez, Harding, Gretsirus, Costerus, Turrecremata, Salmoron, Locinus, Cajetan, and an host of them say, because the Church is builded on a Rock, and against it the Gates of Hell shall not prevail: because Christ saith, I have prayed to the Father that thy Faith fail thee not: because Christ saith, I will send you the holy Spirit, and he shall lead you into all truth. Now our Divines say, that the invisible Church of Elect believers cannot fall off the Rock, and cannot fall from saving Faith, and cannot err by falling into fundamental heresies, but it followeth not; Ergo, the visible ministerial and Teaching Church, either out of a Synod, or convened in a Synod, have an infallible and Apostolic Spirit to lead them so, as in their determinations they cannot err. Just so our brethren take all the places for the privileges, covenant, promises, styles of Sister, Love, Dove, Spouse, mystical Body of Christ, etc. Which are proper only to the invisible, redeemed, chosen, sanctified Church of God: and they give all these to their only visible ministerial and right constituted Church in the New Testament; and say that this visible church gathered in a church-state, because of the foresaid privileges and styles, hath the supreme and independent power and authority of the keys, above all Teachers and Pastors whatsoever, and that the right visible church consisteth only of a Royal generation, Temples of the Holy Ghost, a people in covenant with God, taught of God, partakers of the Divine nature, etc. And that all visible churches that meet not in a material House, in a visible and conspicious Society, as on visible Mount Zion, and not consisting of such a covenanted, sanctified, and separated people, are a false church, false in matter, not an ordinance of Christ, but an Idol, an antichristian device, a Synagogue of Satan void of the power of the Keys. 6. A church in covenant with God, and the Spouse of Christ, and his mystical Body, and a church which he redeemed with the Blood of God, Acts 20. 28. Eph. 5. 25. 26. Col. 1. 18. 1 Cor. 12. 12. Is a church whereof all the members without exception are taught of God. Jerem. 31. 34. They shall all know me (saith the Lord) from the least, unto the greatest. Esa. 54. 13. All thy children shall be taught of the Lord. And therefore they all having heard and learned of the Father, come to Christ, john 6. 45. and therefore have all the anointing within them which teacheth them all things, 1 john 1. 27. And so they have all Ears to hear. Yea among such a company, Esai. 35. 9 10. there is no Lion, no ravenous beast, but the Redeemed and Ransomed of the Lord. But so it is that no visible congregation on Earth, that are visible Professors of any competent number, is such a Church whereof all the members are taught of God, all ransomed and redeemed, and therefore no visible church, as such is a people or Church in covenant with God. See a Rodger. Catechism part. 2. art. 6. p. 176, 177. Rodgers Catechism. 3. Conclus. A visible profession of the Truth and Doctrine of godliness, is that which essentially constituteth a visible church, and every member of the visible church; only our Brethren and we differ much about the nature of this profession which is required in members added to the Church. Our Brethren will have none members of the visible Church, but such as are satisfactory to the consciences of all the visible church, and give evidences so clear, as the judgement of discerning men can atraine unto, that they are truly regenerated. We again do teach, that the scandalously wicked are to be cast out of the Church by excommunication, and these of approved piety are undoubtedly members of the visible Church, so these of the middle sort are to be acknowledged members of the Church, though the Church have not a positive certainty of the judgement of charity, that they are regenerated, so they be known. 1 To be Baptised. 2. That they be free of gross scandals. 3. And profess that they be willing hearers of the Doctrine of the Gospel. Such a profession, as giveth evidences to the positive certainty of the judgement of charity, of sound conversion, is not required to make and constitute a true visible Church. 1. Argu. Israel entered in covenant with God, Deut. 29. was a true visible Church, as our Brethren Teach, because that they conceive to be a Church-covenant, Deut. 29, but Churches by that Oath were not such, as to the satisfaction of Moses, and the whole people their consciences gave positive certainty of sound conversion. Because v. 4. The Lord (saith the Text) hath not given you an heart to perceive, nor eyes to see, nor Ears to hear to this day, Deut. 31. 27. for I know thy Rebellion and thy stifneck, behell, while I am yet alive with you this day, ye have been rebellions against the Lord. ver. 21. Deut. 32. v. 5. v. 15, 16, 17. Josh. 24. 23. 2. Argu. Christ would not seven times have said. He that hath Ears to hear, let him hear what the Spirit saith to the Churches, if he had not supposed that in these seven Churches, there were blind, obdurate, and carnal hearers, as there were when, Mat. 13. upon occasion of the like hearers, he uttereth these same words in substance. Now Christ would have blamed their ill discerning in admitting such to be the materials of a visible Church, as he reproveth their other faults in government. Neither could Christ reprove these Churches, for not exercising the Church-censures against liars, false Apostles, fleshly Nicolaitans, followers of Balaams wicked Doctrine, Jezebed and other ill doers and seducers, if these had not been Church-members, as our Brethren teach, how can we conceive, that Christ would call these Churches, who were false in the matter, or give his presence and communion by walking among the golden candlesticks, and holding the stars, the Ministry, in his right hand? And if every one of these Churches were approved to the consciences one of another, that they positively knew they were all of them, a royal Priesthood, an holy Generation, all taught of God, all sons and daughters of the Lord God Almighty, how are there such gross scandals put upon them by Jesus Christ? 3. Argu. Paul clearly teacheth, 1 Cor. 5. That the Church of Corinth convened had the power of the Lord jesus amongst them, and was a betrothed Bride espoused in a Church covenant, even all of the visible Church as one chaste Virgin to God, as our Brethren prove from the, 1 Cor. 11. 1, 2, 3. Who had received the Spirit and the Gospel, their minds being knit thereunto, in the simplicity of jesus Christ; now if the matter of this betrothed Church was such, as our Brethren say, than Christ's Power, and Presence and Spirit, were in these as the Temples of the Holy Ghost, and these were betrothed to Christ jesus, and had received the Spirit and were Saints by calling, were justified, washen, sanctified, who were incestuous, Fornicators, Drunkards, Railers, carnal, Schismatics, going to the Law one with another before Infidels, partakers of the Table of Christ and of devils, deniers of the Resurrection, to whom the Word was the savour of Death, and the Gospel as it is to these, whom the God of this world, Satan, hath blinded. What can be more repugnant to the truth and to the Gospel of Christ? It cannot be answered, that these in Corinth who were hypocrites and walked so contrary to the Gospel were not members of the Church of Corinth. For only the truly converted were such. I answer. 1. Then Paul writeth not to the visible Church and to all whom he doth rebuke, the contrary whereof is clear. 1 Cor. 2. 11. 2 Cor. 3. 22. 1 Cor. 5. 1. 2. 1 Cor. 6. 1. 2. 3. 1 Cor. 11. 17 18 19, 30. 1 Cor. 15. 12. 1 Cor. 10. 21. 1 Cor. 8. and in many other places. 2. Then the visible church was not betrothed to Christ as a chaste Virgin: contrary to this our Brethren alleged, 1 Cor. 11. 1 2, 3. 3. Not only is conversion professedly true in the judgement of charity, but also in the judgement of verity, essential to a visible church as you teach; and so none can be a member of the visible church, but he who is a member of the invisible Church, which is Anabaptism. 4. Three thousand in one day were added to the visible church, who could not (as I have proved) all be approved to the conscience one of another, as true converts, Acts 2. Since amongst them were Ananias and Saphira, and the time was short. 5. If we are to bear one another's burdens, and so fulfil the Law of Christ, and if grace may be beside many and great sins, as we see in Asa, in Solomon who remained the children of God, under many out break, if the children of God may be the children of God, and yet some of them habitually proud, passionate, some of them worldly minded, some talkative and imprudently rash in zeal, some lustful, some slothful, some ambiticus, yea and if Simon Magus his profession, though false, was esteemed sufficient, for to give him baptism, the Seal of the covenant, Acts 8. 9 Then it is not required that all the members of the visible church be such as positively we know (so far as humane knowledge can reach) that they are converted, yea if this were true, then special commandments would be given, that as we are to examine and try ourselves, 1 Cor. 11. 28. 2 Cor. 13. 5. And to try officers before they be admitted, 1 Tim. 3. 10. 1 Tim. 5 22. and to try the spirits of Prophets and their Doctrine, 1 john 4. 1. and, 1 Thess. 5. 21. Acts 17. 13. So would God in his Word give a charge, that we try, examine and judge carefully one another, and that every man labour to be satisfied in conscience anent the regeneration one of another. But such commandments we read not of. 6. If many be brought and called into the visible church, of purpose both on Gods revealed intention in his Word to convert them, and on the church's part that they may be converted; Then doth not the church confist of these who are professedly converted, but the former ●● true; Ergo, so is the latter. The proposition is sure, these whom God purposeth to convert by making them Church-members, they are not Church-members because they are already converted. I prove the assumption, because. 1. The contrary doctrine, to wit, that none are under a pastors care till they be first converted, maketh to the eversion of the public Ministry, and gratifieth Arminians and Socinians, as before I observed, because Faith cometh not by hearing of sent pastors, as God's ordinance is, Rom. 10. 14. but by the contrary, we ask a warrant from the Testament of Christ, that now since the Apostles are not in the Earth, private men not sent to preach, should be ordinary Fishers of men, and gatherers of Christ's church and Kingdom. 2. That Christ hath provided no Pastors nor Teachers to watch over the Elect, yet remaining in the Kingdom of darkness, and that Christ ascending on high, as a victorious King hath not given Pastors and Teachers by office to bring in his redeemed flock, which he hath bought with his blood, Acts 20. 28. 3. It is against the nature of the visible Kingdom of Christ which is a draw-net and an offici●●, a workehouse of external calling into Christ, even such as are serving their honour, buying a Farm; and their gain, buying five yoke of Oxen; and their lusts, having married a Wife. Luk. 14. 16, 17 18. 4. It is against the nature of the Ministry, and Wisdoms maids, sent out to compel them to come in. Luke 14. 23. Matthew 22. 4, 5, 6. Prov. 9 2, 3, 4, 5. who are yet without. 7. If none can be members while they be first converted. 1. The church visible is made a church visible without the Ministry of the church. 2. These who are baptised are not by baptism entered in the visible Church contrary to God's Word, 1 Cor. 12. 13. and the sound judgement of all Divines. 3. All these who are baptised. 2. Who write as Doctors for the defence of the Orthodox Faith. 3. Who seal the Truth with their sufferings and blood. 4. Who keep communion with visible Churches, in hearing, partaking of the Word and Seales, as occasion serveth, if they be not professedly and notoriously to the consciences of a particular parish converted to Christ, are no members of the visible church. 8. All our brethren's arguments to prove this Doctrine do only prove the truly regenerate to be members of the invisible Church, and not of the visible Church. And if the arguments be naught, the conclusion must be naught and false. 9 It is against the Doctrine of Fathers, as a Augustin. contr. Crescom. l. 1. 6. 29 de baptis. l. 7. c. 51. contr. donati●. coll.. 20. Augustine b Cyprian. l. Eph. 6. Cyprian c Gregror. hom. 11, 12 & 35. in evang. Gregorius d Chrysost. in Psal. 39 & l. 3. de sacerd. Chysostome e Nazianzen, orat. 1. in Julia. Nazianzen f Eusebius de ● praep. evang. l. 6. c. 18. Eusebius. Who all accord that the visible church is a company of professors, consisting of good and bad, like the Ark of Noah as g Hierom contr. Pelag. & Luciser. dialog. Hierome maketh comparison. I might cite Ireneus, Tertullian, Origen, Cyrillus, Basilius, Hilarius, Presper, Ambrose, Primasius, Sedulius, Just. Martyr, Clemens Alexandrinus, Euthymius, Theophylact, Epiphanius, Theodoret, and Luther, Melanchton, Chemnitius, Meisnerus, Hunius, Hemingius, Gerardus, Crocius, Calvin, Beza, Voetius, Sadeel, Plesseus, Whittakerus, joannes white, Fransc. white, Reynoldus, juellus, Rich. Feildus, Perkinsius, Pau. Baynes, Trelcatius, Tilenus, Piscator, Ursinus, Paraeus, Sibrandus, Professores Leydenses, Antonius Wallaeus, And. Rivetus, Pet. Molineus, Dam. Tossanus, Mercorus, Fest. Hommius, Bullingerus, Mnsculus, Rollocus, Davenantius, Mortonus. Quest. 2. Whether or no our Brethren prove by valid aguments, the constitution of the Church visible to be only of visible Saints, of sanctified washen and justified persons. Let us begin with our present Author, and with what the (a) Apology saith. We admit all, even Infidels to the hearing of the Word, 1 Cor. 14. 24▪ 25. Yet we receive none as members Way of the Churches of Christ in N. E. Ch. 3. Sect. ●●to our Church, but such as (according to the judgement of charitable Christians,) may be conceived to be received of God, unto fellowship with Christ the head of the Church. Our reasons be. 1. From the near relation betwixt Christ Jesus and the Church, as also betwixt the Church and other persons of the Trinity. The Lord Jesus is the head of the Church; even of the visible Church, and the visible Church is the body of Christ Jesus 1 Cor. 12. and 27. Answ. To admit as ordinary hearers of the Word and Church Prayers, is a degree of admission to Church-communion, and they who are baptised, and ordinarily hear, and profess a willing mind to communicate with the Church in the holy things of God, they being not scandalously wicked are to be admitted, yea and are members of the Church visible. ●. Set the first reason in form it is thus; These only are to be received as Church members who are conceived to be members of that body whereof Christ is head. But the promisccous multitude of professors are not conceived to be such, but only the sanctified in Christ jesus are such. Or thus, If Christ be the head of the visible Church, then only such are to be admitted members of the visible Church, as are conceived to be members of Christ the head, and not the promiscuous multitude of good and bad. But the former is true; Ergo, so is the latter. 1. If Christ be the head of the visible Church as visible, it would seem only these who are conceived Members of CHRIST, should be admitted Members of the visible body. True and in this meaning let the Major pass; but if Christ be the head of the visible church not as it is visible, but as it is a body of believers and invisible, than we see no reason to yield the connexion: Because Christ is the Head of True Believers, therefore none should be admitted members of the Church, but such as we conceive are Believers, because they are to be admitted to the visible Church, who are willing to join themselves are baptised and do profess Christ to be their Head, though we cannot conceive whether they be sound believers or not; for a profession is sufficient to make them members of the visible body, though indeed to be sou●d Believers, maketh them members of Christ's Body invisible. 2. That Christ is the Head of the visible Church, as visible, i● not in all the Word of God, he is the Head of the Church catholic and invisible, by influence of the Life and Spirit of Christ, Eph. 1, 22, 23. Eph. 4. 16. Coloss. 1. 18. and in a large sense may be called the Head of the church-visible, as visible, in regard of the influence of common graces for the Ministry; government, and use of the keys: but because of such a degree of Christ's Head-ship, it followeth only that these are to be admitted members under Christ the Head, whom we conceive to be ●t members of the Church, as it is a Ministerial and a governing society, and for this there is not required an union with Christ, as head, according to the influence of the life of Christ, but only an union with Christ, as head, according to the influence of common gifts, for the governing a Ministerial Church; in which respect, Christ may be called the Head of Judas the Traitor, and of some other hypocritical Professors; and also though the promiscuous multitude, that is a multitude of profane Atheists and scandalous mockers, be not members of Christ, nor are to be acknowledged as his members, but to be Excommunicated, yet the promiscuous multitude of Professors, whereof there be Reprobate and Elect, good and bad, are to be received and acknowledged as members of Christ's visible body, whereof he is Head in the latter sense. 2. The Argument proceedeth upon the false ground before observed and discovered, that Christ is Head of the Church and the Spouse, redeemer and Saviour of the visible Church, as it is visible, which is the Arminian Doctrine of universal grace. 3. If these who are conceived to be members of Christ the Head and sound Believers are to be admitted, why do you profess that Brethren of approved piety, and so conceived to be Believers by you, and consequently members of Christ the Head, cannot be members of your Church, except they swear to your Church government, which you cannot make good from God's Word. Now to refuse communion to these who are known to be members of Christ's body, and to separate from them is all one, and therefore in this you separate yourselves from Christ's Body. The Author addeth. The visible Church is said to be the habitation of God by the Spirit, Eph. 2. 22. to be the Temple of the Holy Ghost, and the Spirit of God to dwell in them, 1 Cor. 3. 16, 17. To he espoused to Christ as a chaste Virgin. 2 Cor. 11. and sons and daughters of the Lord God Almighty. 2 Cor. 6. 18. And are exhorted to be followers of him as dear children, Eph. 5. 1. Now how can the visible Church be the members of the Body and the Spouse of Christ, & c. Except they be in charitable discerning (as indeed the Holy Ghost describeth them to be) Saints by calling. 1 Cor. 1. 2. and faithful Brethren, Gal. 1. 2. and that not only in external profession (for these are too high styles for hypocrites) but in some measure of sincerity and truth. Answ. The argument must be thus. These only we are to admit members of the visible Church, who in the judgement of charity are conceived to be such as were the members of the visible Church of Corinth and Ephesus. But only such as are the habitation of God by his Spirit, and the sons and daughters of the living God, not only in profession, but in some measure of truth and sincerity, were the members of the visible Church of Corinth and Ephesus: Ergo, such only are we to admit to be members of the visible Church. Now this argument concludeth not what is in question; Ergo, only these are to be admitted members of the visible Church, whom we conceive to be the Spouse of Christ, and truly regenerated. Now if our conception be erroneous (as it cannot be infallible) than we may admit these who are not regenerated, to the Church-membership, if we conceive them to be regenerated; and so our Brethren say falsely, that the admitted must be Saints and faithful, not only in profession, but in some measure of sincerity und truth, for these are members of the invisible Church who are truly and in a measure of sincerity regenerated, if our conception be not erroneous: yet it is by accident, that they are admitted de facto, who are not Saints in truth, for the Church may be deceived, and receive in for members of the Head Christ, hypocrites and such as are not the Habitation of God by his Spirit, but of Satan; as is clear in Ananias and Saphira admitted by the Apostles to Church-fellowship, Acts 5. 1. 2. and in Simon Magus, Acts 8. admitted to the Church and baptised by the Apostolic Church, who was yet in the Gall of bitterness. But. 1. The assumption is false, for the Apostle admitted to be members of the Church visible of Corinth and Ephesus, not only Saints by true profession, but also carnal men, deniers of the Resurrection, partakers of the Tables of Devils, and in Ephesus false Apostles and Liars, Revel. 2. 3. But Paul speaketh of Corinth according to the best part: for the Epistle and Doctrine of the covenant is written and preached for the Elects sake and for Believers; neither is the covenant of grace made with the Reprobate and Unbelievers, nor do the promises of the covenant, indeed, and in God's Intention belong to the visible Church, though the Word be preached to carnal men for their conviction. 3 This proposition is false (these only we are to admit to the visihle Church, whom we conceive to be Saints, and are in the judgement of charity persuaded they are such) for the Apostles admit all Professors, even three thousand at one Sermon in one day, Acts 2. and they could not be persuaded in the judgement of charity, that they were all Saints. 4. This argument saith, that all the visible Church of Ephesus was a Spouse betrothed to Christ, and Saints by calling, which the Word of God saith not. For were all the carnal in Corinth betrothed as one chaste Virgin to Christ? were these who called themselves Apostles in Ephesus and tried by Church censures to be Liars, Revel. 2. 2, 3. betrothed to Christ as a chaste Virgin? were all the visible Church the sins and daughters of the Lord God Almighty? and that not only in profession but in some measure of sincerity and truth? It is true, the styles given to the Church of Corinth are too high to be given to hypocrites, but these styles are not given to that Church precisely, as visible and as a professing Church, as you suppose, but as an visible and true Church of Believers: for a Church of Believers and a Church of Professors of belief are very different. Paul writing to the Corinthians writeth to a visible Church, but he doth not speak always of them as a visible Church, but as of an invisible, when he calleth them Temples of the Holy Ghost, Saints by calling, etc. he wrote the Epistles to the incestuous man, whom he commandeth to cast out of the Church. We read (saith the Author) Acts 2. 43. that the Lord added to the Church such as should be saved, and how then shall we add to the Church, such as God addeth not; such as have no show of any spiritual work in them to any spiritual discerning? Ought not the Lords Stewards to be faithful in God's House? And to do nothing therein, but as they see God going before them, receiving whom he receiveth, and refusing whom he refuseth. So upon this ground Paul willeth the Romans to receive a weak brother, because God hath received him, Rom. 14. 1, 2, 3. Answ. God's acts of special and gracious providence, are not rules of duties to us; God addeth to the Church as it is invisible and Christ's Body, it followeth not therefore we are to add to the Church visible as visible. God's adding is invisible by giving Faith and saving grace to some to profess sincerely, because we see not Faith nor sincerity, therefore Gods adding cannot be a rule to our adding. God doth add a person falling into an open scandal to the Church invisible, having given him true Faith, but the Church is not to add him, but to cut him off, if he be obstinate to the Church, and refuse him, and so this proveth nothing, nor is the place, Rom. 14. by any, except yourselves, expounded of a receiving into a Church-communion, as is elsewhere declared. 2. Where there is no show of saving work of conversion; there you think the Steward's want God going before to receive, but then except God be seen to go before to regenerate, the Church Stewards cannot follow to adds such to the Church; but since that same power that casteth out of the Church holdeth out of the Church, if any after they be received, shall be found to be not added of God, because they be not regenerated, yet we are not to cast any out for non-regeneration, even known, except it break out into scandals, and then the person is not cast out for non-regeneration, for though he were known to be regenerated, yet for scandals the Church is obliged to cast him out, because the scandal leaveneth the whole Church, and. 2. The casting out is a mean to save the spirit in the day of the Lord. But I prove, none are to be cast out for non-regeneration, where there be no outbreakings into scandals. 1. Because, de occultis Ecclesia non judicat, non-Regeneration where it is not backed with public scandals is a hidden thing, that the Church can neither judge nor censure. 2. None are to be cast out but for such a scandal, that if the party deny, should be proved by two witnesses, as Christ's Law provideth, Mat. 18. 16. 1 Tim. 5. 19 3. Only public scandals which offend many, are to be censured by the Church, 1 Tim. 5. 20. that others may fear. But non-regeneration breaking out into no scandals, can neither be proved by witnesses, if the party deny, nor is it a seen thing which giveth public scandals, and therefore is not the object of Church censures. For it is evident though the Stewards see some not regenerated, and so not added by the Lord to the Church they are to add these same and cannot cast them out. And yet God goeth before them in adding them to the visible Church, when they profess the truth. 3. God addeth such as should be saved to the visible Church by baptism, because the adjoining to a visible Church is a way to salvation, but it followeth not that all whom God addeth to the visible Church are saved ones, for then the visible Church should consist only of believers, which only Anabaptists teach. 4. Whereas he saith, The Stewards should be faithful, and should not add except God add, it seemeth to infer that either all the people are Stewards, and so Officers contrary to God's Word, Eph. 4. 11. 1 Cor. 12. 29. or that only officers admit Church-members, which is against our brethren's Doctrine, for they teach, that the whole multitude of believers are only to add and cast out. 3. If Peter's confession (saith the Author) be a Rock on which The Way of the Churches in N. E. Ibid, the visible Church (to which only the Keys are given) is built, then to receive these who can hold forth no such profession is to build without a foundation. Answ. This conclusion is against yourselves, no less then against us, except all and every one whom you admit, be builded upon this Rock; if there be hypocrites in your Church (as you cannot deny it) than you build without a foundation. 2. By this, Peter before this confession was an un-churched Pastor built upon no Church-foundation, 3. By this place is not proved that the keys are given to the Church of Believers, but to the Ministers, for then against no parochial Church can the gates of Hell prevail. All the Fathers with good reason, as Augustine, chrysostom, Cyrill, Tertullian, Hieronim. Nazianzen, Cyprian, Ambrose, etc. And our Divines against Papists (whom you side with in this) deny, that Christ meaneth here of the visible Church, such as Rome or Corinth, but of the catholic and invisible Church. 4. When (saith the Author) Christ saith, Mat. 22. 12. Friend, how camest thou here not having thy wedding garment, he doth intimate a taxing of these, by whose connivance he came. Answ. The contrary is in the Text, v. 9 Go ye therefore to the high ways, and as many as you find, bid. Here is a charge that ministers invite and call all, and so the Church is a company of externally called, though few of them be chosen, as v. 14. and their obedience is commended, v. 10. so these servants went out into the high ways, and gathered together all, as many as they found both good and bad. This is a praising rather than a taxing, seeing they are commanded, without trying or selecting only the regenerated, to call in as many as they find both good and bad. For as many as you find is as good in sense, as both good and bad, and the latter doth expound the former, and when the Lord commandeth them to bring in as many as they find, and they find in the streets both good and bad, therefore they be commanded to bring in both good and bad. 2. Yea, the very scope of the parable is contrary to this; the scope is that many are called externally, and so are the visible Church and that by God's special command both here, v. 9 10. and Luk. 14. v. 17. v. 21. v. 24. and yet few are chosen, and of the invisible Church. And Luk. 14. several times the servants or pastors call all (by the Lord of the feasts commandment) without exception of regenerated or not regenerated. 5. Christ in the parable imputeth it to the sleepiness and negligence of the servants, that tares were sown amongst his wheat, Mat. 13. 35, 38, 39 Ergo, Pastors are to be blamed that there be scandalous persons in the visible Church. Answ. This doth but strengthren Anabaptists who objected the same a An●ibaptist. in coloquio francola●●ns. It is a fault that a very popish Doctor Aquinas condemneth. Theologia symbolics non est argumentativa. For it is not said, while the servants sleeped, the envious man did s●w his seed, but while men sleeped, which is spoken (saith b Pareus come. ib. Pareus) according to the manner of men, for otherwise God's providence can hinder the growing of tares; and c Cajetan come. Cajetan saith, here is not accused the negligence of pastors, and certainly since as d Bullinger come. Bullinger observeth well, Christ when he expoundeth the parable, passeth this part of it, to teach us (as e Calvin come. ib. Calvin saith) not to press every part and tittle of a parable, except we would be (saith Bullinger) Christo argutiores, sharper sighted than Christ, and therefore the Author allegeth that by sleeping of men is understood the negligence of pastors, but that is beside the Text and is not expounded at all of Christ, but signifieth that men cannot see the hollowness and falsehood of Hypocrites, till it break out in their actions, no more than the sleeping husbandman can see when weeds grow up in his Fields. And if the Lord here condemn the sleepiness of Pastors, for suffering scandalcus Professors to be members of the Church, how doth the Lord forbid these servants to pluck up the tares, but to let them grow till Harvest? for he commandeth the officers to cast out of the Church and excommunicate the scandalous persons. Yea certainly, seeing the Field is the Field of the visible church, it maketh for us against our Brethren, that wicked men are growing in the visible church. It is true that Barow with the Anabaptistes Barow discov. of a false Church. expound the Field to be the Field of the World, mistaking Christ's Words, v. 41. which indeed signify the Field of the visible Kingdom of Christ, because the World of all mortal men is not the Lords Field, where he soweth his Wheat, but the visible Church only is such a Field. For seeing the Gospel, the immortal seed of the regenerate, 1 Pet. 1. 23. is not sown through the whole World of mortal men, Psal. 147. 19 20. Mat. 10. 5, 6. Acts 16. 6. but only in the visible Church, the Field must be Christ's Field, or his World of Church-Professors. And also by this, their exposition falleth, for than it is the sleepiness and sloth of Preachers that wicked men are borne in the World of mortal men, which is absurd. We are bidden, 2 Tim. 3. 5. Turn away from such as have a form of godliness, and have denied the power thereof; Ergo, we cannot join The Author objecteth. Ib. in Church communion with them. Answ. It is clear by this argument, to our Brethren, that one and the same reason holdeth for turning away, and separation from all persons and Churches, which are not inchurched by covenant, and constituted of visibly regenerated persons, and the not admitting Church-members. So our Brethren by this profess the lawfulness of separation from all Churches, except from their own. 2. No marvel then Paul will have Timothy to separate from Apostates and from Resisters of the truth, v. 8. and from proud boasters, blasp●emers, Traitors. For such are to be excommunicated, as 1 Tim. 6. 3. 5. At l●quitur Paulus (saith a Parkerus de polit l. 1. 6. 14. p. 41. Parkerus) de fundamentali corruptione istius Doctrinae, qu● est secundum pi●tatem: but Paul here forbiddeth to exhort the proud and malicious blasphemers and resisters of the Truth, and not to wait upon them any longer, whereas otherwise he had said in the end of the preceding Chapter, 24. 25. 26. Others, who are detained in the snare of Satan, must be waited on, and instructed with meekness, if God will give them Repentance; Ergo, Tim thy was as a Pastor to instruct unconverted persons, and to join in communion with them, but as for desperate enemies and blasphemers, he was not to wait on them, nor to exhort them with meekness. And if this Text prove any thing it will conclude against our Brethren, that such as deny the power of godliness, should not be hearers of the Word, and far less (as our Brothers' reason) members of the visible Church. Can any (saith the Author) judge such persons fit materials for the constituting and edifying of a Church, who are more fit for The Author ibid. the ruin and destruction of the Church, such as leave their first love (as all hypocrites will at length do) they procure the removal of the candlestick. Answ. The argument must be thus form. All these whom God intendeth shall edify and not ruin the Church, are to be only members of the visible Church: but all known hypocrites are such; Ergo. The proposition is false, for if we speak of God's secret Intention and his decreeing Will; It is not a rule for the Church to square and to regulate them in the choysing or refusing Church-members, because God intendeth in his decreeing will, that many hypocrites, such as Judas and D●mas, shall be Church-members, and let our Brethren judge if they be fit materials to edify the Church. If we speak of Gods revealed will, the proposition also is false; for by our brethren's Doctrine, it is Gods revealed will that the Church receive as Church-members latent hypocrites, such as Simon Magus, Acts 8. who are conceived to be regenerated, as the church, Acts 8. conceived Simon Magus to be a sound Believer, as our Brethren say, and yet latent hypocrites, are no less unfit materials to build the Church, then known hypocrites. 2. We do not think that hypocrites fallen from their first love, and by scandalous living declaring themselves to be such should be kept in the Church. But so the Author allegeth, Revel. 2. That the Church of Ephesus falling from her first love, must be a false constituted Church, in which there were members fitter to ruin, then to edify the Church. And yet certain it is, Paul, Eph. 1. and Christ, Rev●l. 2. acknowledgeth the Church of Ephesus to be a true visible Church. We pass (saith the Author) the types of the Old Testament, which yet are not without their due weight. Rough stones were not Ibid. laid in the building of Salomon's Temple till they were hewn and prepared before, 1 King. 6. 7. and behold a greater than Salomen is h●re, the attendance of the porteres suffering none to enter into the Temple who were unclean (2 Chron. 23. 19) doth evidently type forth the watchfulness of the officers of Christ's Church, to suffer none unclean in estate or in this course of life, to enter into the fellowship of the Church, which ought to be a communion of Saints. Their apology saith a A●olog. c. 9 though all Israel were admitted to the fellowship of the Ordinances administrated in the synagegne, yet none unclean were admitted into the Temple; for Revel. 21. without are dogs, etc. So Master Can and Robinson press Can. necessit. of separate c. 4. sect. 3. p. 175. this place. Answ. In this Type many things are loose and doubtful. 1. We desire a warrant from the Word, that the Temple was a Type of a visible Congregation, and that all must be as really holy before they enter into a visible congregation, as they behoved to be Typically holy, who entered into the Temple of Jerusalem. The Temple is a Type of Christ's Body, john 2. and of the Church of the New Testament invisible, which must consist of sanctified ones, but how it is a Type of the visible Church we see not. For the Lords spiritual building whereof the Cornerstone and the foundation is Christ▪ is the Church invisible built by Faith as lively Stones upon Christ, 1 Pet: 2. 7. Unto you therefore which believe he is precious, v. 5. ye also as living Stones are built up a spiritual House. opposite to the disobedient, v. 7. who stumble at the Word, v. 8. 1 Cor. 3. 9 ye are God's building, Eph. 2. 20, 21, 22. Expressly the building are these who are built on the Doctrine of the Prophets and Apostles, and grow up into an holy Temple in Christ, and are the habitation of God through his Spirit. This cannot agree to a visible Church, the members whereof may be (as our Brethren teach from Revel. 2.) Hypocrites who fall from their first love. Yea also the laying on of stones on the building is not the act of inchurching, or of union to a Church, as it must be, if the comparison prove the point, but the joining of the stones to the building is the union of these stones by Faith to Christ, the chief corner stone, as is expounded, 1 Pet. 2. To whom coming as to a living stone, v. 5. ye also as living stones are built, etc. Yea, and Peter doth not build this comfortable Doctrine all upon the comforts of a Church-state in a single congregation; for many of these to whom he writ, were dispersed and persecuted through Pontus, Asia, and Cappadocia, etc. And might have, and had an Union with Christ by Faith without a Church Union in a Parish. 2. Though in this Type were signified a moral obligation, that all before they be inchurched in a visible Congregation, should be converted, how is it proved that the Church should receive none to a visible Congregation till they be converted? for these are far different. All should be converted, but there is no new Law commanding the Church to receive none into her fellowship, but the converted. 3. The hewers of stones or builders of the Temple, must Typify Pastors in Office, dressing stones for the spiritual building, our Brethren make them to Typify private Christians out of Office, and deny that any Pastors as Pastors do fit and prepare stones to be laid on the spiritual building. Also none laid stones on that Temple save only builders by Office, but by our brethren's Doctrine, only Pastors do not convert Souls. There were no Stones at all in the Temple of Jerusalem, but choice and well squared stones, are no members of the visible Church but the chosen of God? 3. If the Porters typify the Ministers of visible Churches, first only Porters hold out the unclean; Ergo, only Pastors should hold out the scandalous, but you admit the whole Church with equal authority to take in, or refuse Church-members. 2. If the Temple be a Type of the visible Church, than no profane person, nor uncircumcised in heart should meet with the visible Church to hear the Word, for hearing of the word profanes the holy things of God. This you cannot say, for infidels may be, as you say, fellow-partners with the Church, in hearing the word. 3. Robinson holdeth a Robinson 〈◊〉 ●6. that Abraham's seed, and so all the Jews were to separate themselves from the world, that they might be a visible Church to God, but we read not that the porters were to hold out any wicked person. Yea Jer. 7. professedly they came to the Temple of the Lord who were thiefs, adulterers, and wicked persons. And so by that neither are the porters of the visible Churches of the New Testament to hold out unconverted persons because they are unconverted. Lastly, the place, Revel. 22. 15. For without are dogs, etc. is foully abused when it is applied to the visible Church, where there may be, and ordinarily are dogs; yea and liars, Revel. 2. 2. It is true that our divines say, that it is one & the same church which is both visible and invisible, and that visibility is an accident of the church, but they then speak of the Catholic visible Church, but if we speak of a particular visible Church in this, or that place, all in such a Church as they exist, are either holy or profane, but neither is holiness, nor profanes essential to a church visible, as visible. idolaters, v. 14. Napper, Pareus, Marlorat, expoundeth it of the Kingdom of glory, for it is that Kingdom spoken of, Rev. 21. 27. but within that Kingdom cannot enter any thing that defileth, neither what soever worketh abomination or maketh a lie, but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life, But it is against all reason and the Lords Word that in the visible Church is nothing that defileth, that is no sin, but only those who are written in the Lamb's book of life. This is the very doctrine of Anabaptists though we know our dear brethren hate that Sect, and their Doctrine. a Robinson Justi. separate p. 97. Robinson. The purest Church on Earth may consist of good and bad in God's Eye, but the question is about the true and natural members, whereof the Church is orderly gathered, but as it were fond Philosophy, in the description of Wives and Children, to make Rebellion a natural property of a child, and Whoredom of a Wife, so it is as profane Divinity to make ungodly persons the true matter of the Church, and profaneness a property of the same, because many seeming Saints creep in. Answ. If the holiest Church visible on Earth consist of good and bad, before God, then to be partakers of the Divine nature, Temples of the holy Ghost, Saints by calling, is not of the essence of a visible Church, nor is it essential to make one a member of the visible Church, that he be converted. It is sufficient that he be a professor of the Faith. And it is a poor comparison to say, that profaneness cannot be put in the description of a visible Church, for in the essence of a visible Church as visible, we neither include Holiness nor Propanenesse, but only a visible company professing the Faith of Christ and called by the Ministry of the Word, whether they be Believers or Unbelievers it is all one, neither of the two belongeth to the essence of a visible church: a visible Church is saved in the number of forty, all being converted, or in 40. being all unconverted, so they be externally called by the Ministry of the Gospel and profess the same. And it is as foolish to make holiness the essence of a child, as to make it of a visible Church, and as vain to make chastity the essence of a married Wife; for this is not our philosophy, but a conceit of Mr. Robinson falsely imputed to us. a Robinson. Ibid. 97. Robinson. All the Churches that ever the Lord planted consisted of good only, as the Church of the Angels in Heaven and of mankind in Paradise. God hath also these same ends in creating and restoring his Churches, and if it were the Will of God that persons notoriously wicked should be admitted into the Church, then should God directly cross himself and his own ends, and should receive into the visible covenant of grace, such as were out of the visible estate of grace, and should plant such in his Church for the glory of his Name, as served for no other use, then to cause his Name to be blasphemed. Answ. This argument proveth that the visible Church is not a visible Church, except it consist of only holy and gracious persons, without any mixture; and so not only holiness in profession, but holiness real and before God is required essentially to a visible Church. Then Pastors, Doctors and Professors, binding and losing, clavae non errante, are not a visible Church. Yea, this is down right Anabaptism that no visible Churches are on Earth, but such as consist of real Saints only. 2. It is most ignorantly reasoned, that God in creating Man and Angels good, did not intend that they should fall by his permission, but that they should continue holy and then God was frustrated of his end, as Arminians and Socinians Teach. So saith a Arm. Antip. p. 60. Arminius Antiperk. b Corvinus ep. ad Wallachros p. 19 Corvinus. The Remonstrants c Remonst. in script. Synod. art. 2. p. 256. in apolog. c. 9 sol. 105. at Dort, and d Socinus contra puticum. c: 10 sol. 32●. Socinus, that God intendeth and purposeth many things which never come to pass. 2. His Decrees fail and are changed. 3. Men may make God's Decrees of election fast and sure, or loose and unsure, as they please. 3. Here is much ignorance that God intendeth nothing that may be against the glory of obedience due to him, as Lawgiver; as if sinners and hypocrites being in the Church because they are dishonourable to God, should cross God's end, and purpose: so Tertullian e Tertullian contra Marcionem. O ca●es etc. Si Deus bonus & praescius futuri & potens, cur hominem possus est lahi? bringeth in some whom he calleth dogs, thus reasoning against providence, which suffereth sin to be in the World so contrary to his Will and goodness: And who denieth but Christ commanded Judas to preach, and that the Apostles according to Gods Will and Cammandement received Ananias, Saphira, Simon Magus in the visible Church by baptising them (for I hope the Apostles sinned not against Gods revealed Will in admitting them to the visible Church.) And shall we say that God directly in that crosseth himself and his own ends, because God gathered hypocrites into his Churcch, and yet they dishonour and blaspheme the Name of God? Whiles Robinson saith, God's main end in gathering a visible Church is, that they being separated f Robin's. p. 98. from the World, may glorify his Name, he speaketh gross Arminianism, that God faileth in his ends. Lastly, he saith that God cannot will that persons notoriously wicked should be in his visible Church, for than he should cross himself and his own ends advert (notoriously) is vainly added, seeing we teach that notoriously wicked aught to be cast out of the visible Church; as also if he shall will wicked persons, let alone notoriously wicked, or latent hypocrites to be in the Church, yea or in this visible World, he should by this Arminian argument cross himself and his own ends? Do you believe with Arminians that God's end is, that Angels and men should have stood in obedience, and that a Redeemer should never come to save sinners? And that blasphemy and sin is against God's purpose and intended end, and that sin crosseth him? but when all is done it is his intention and revealed will that hypocrites be invited to the visible and preached covenant, and yet he knoweth that they are out of the visible, yea and invisible state of grace. a Robinson p. 98. Robinson. In planting the first Church in the seed of the woman, there were only Saints without any mixture, now all Churches are of one nature and essential constitution, and the first is the rule of the rest. Answ. Though God planted Adam and Eve two restored persons, to be the first repenting Church; from God's fact you cannot conclude a visible Church gathered by men, should be void of all mixture, so as it is no visible Church; if it be a mixed company of good and bad, this is contrary to his own commandment, Mat. 22 9 Go and call as many as you find. 2. God's acts are not rules of moral duties, his Word and Commandment doth regulate us, not his Works. God hardeneth pharao's heart, should Pharaoh harden for that his own heart? God forbid. Robinson. Cajan that evil on was broken off, and cast out of the Church, and by Moses it is imputed for sin, that the sons of God ●id. married with the daughters of men; Ergo, it is far more unlawful to contract with the wicked in a religious covenant of the communion of Saints. Answ. We grant such as Cain are to be excommunicated, but what then? Ergo, none can be members of a visible Congregation but such as Abel, we love not such consequences, a Though God forbade his people to marry with the Canaanites, yet he forbade not that the Godly and ungodly should come to the Temple together, and that Noah and cursed Cham should be in one Ark together. 3. Though it be a sin that the wicked should mix themselves with the godly and come unto the King's supper without the wedding garment, yet that is not the question, but if the pastors inviting all to come to the supper do sin, and 2. If the Church be not a true visible Church, though it consist of good and bad. Robinson. Circumcision is a seal of the righteousness of Faith, Page 98. Gen. 17. 10. Rom. 4. 11. Now to affirm that the Lord will seal up with the visible seal of Faith any visibly unrighteous and faithless person, were, that God should profane his own Ordinance. Answ. God doth by this argument profane his own seal, when a visibly wicked person is sealed with the seal, as when one visibly unrighteous is sealed, for the latent hypocrite profaneth the seal of Righteousness, as the open and visibly unrighteous and faithless person doth. Yet it is God's command that the latent hypocrite have the seals of Righteousness, since the Church conceiveth him to be a sound professor; Ergo, by your Doctrine God commandeth to profane his own seals, but this is the wicked reasoning of Arminians, and Socinians. So Arminians against Perkins, Corvinus against Molin●us, the Arminians at the synod of Dort would prove an universal grace accompanying the Word and Sacraments, and they say that Sacraments do not seal remission of sins, redemption in Christ, and that they be empty and tomb ordinances yea and mocking signs, except all who receive the seals, both elect and reprobate be redeemed in Christ, and have grace to believe. But the truth is, God doth not profane his own seals, because he commandeth that they be received with Faith: and let us see where any male child, reprobate or elect, borne amongst the jews, but he is by God's Commandment to be circumcised, yet that seal was an empty ordinance to thousands in Israel. 3. Nor is the seal, a seal of righteousness, actu secundo, sed actu primo it is a seal of righteousness, as the Word of God is the power of God to Salvation, not to all, nor of itself, but by the efficacious grace of God, to every one that believes. john Baptist (saith Robinson) Christ and his Apostles being to repair the desolation of Zion, did not by the coactive Laws of men Robinson Justif. of lepat. p. 99 s●● ffle together good and bad, as intending a new monster or Chimaera, but admitted of such and none other, as confessed their sins a Luk. 7. 29. 30. and justified God, and were not of b John 15. 18. 19, 20. the World, but chosen out of it, and c Acts 2. 41. 42. did receive the Word gladly, and communicated all of them in all things, as every one had need, and that in gladness and singleness of heart, as receiving Testimony of the Holy Ghost himself, that they were such as should be saved, as were d Act 20 28. all of them purchased by the Blood of God, as e Rom. 1. 8. for all for whom there was cause to think God, as whom the Apostle f Phili. 1. 3. 4, 5. did remember in his prayers with gladness, being persuaded that God would perfect his good Work begun in them, as became him to judge of them all, being all partakers of the grace of God with him in the confirmation of the Gospel, and after whom all he longed from the g 1 Thes. 1. 2, 3. & 2 Ep. 2, 3. very heart root in Christ, and for all whom he gave thanks, always making mention of them in his prayers, without ceasing remembering their effectual Faith, diligent love, and patient hope in the Lord Jesus, which did grow in every one of them. Answ. Here is much Scripture abused to no good use; 1. that coactive Laws of Princes be the only way of inchurching people, we never taught; but of this hereafter. 2. He calleth the Kingdom of God which is a draw-net of good and bad h Mat. 13. 47. 48. a called company invited to the Supper of the Gospel, whereof many are called, but few are chosen. i Mat. 22. 9 14 which is the field where grow Wheat and Tares k Mat. 13. 36, 37, 38. the Barne-floore wherein is Corn and Chaff. l Mat. 3. 12. He calleth (I say) these men good and bad shuffled together in a new monster or Chimaera. Sin is a monster, but that it should be in the world is not without the decree of efficacious providence, except we turn Epicures with Arminians. 3. That all and every one baptised by john Baptist justified God, and were true converts is more charity, than the verity of the Text Luk. 7. can warrant. 4. And that the visible Church consisteth only of men chosen out of the World, as he spoke from joh. 15. is a plain contradiction to that (many are called, but few chosen out of the World) and serveth much for Huberians, who will have all the visible Church chosen, and for Arminians who make all in God's intention separated from the World, and so make election to life eternal, as universal in the visible Church as the preached Gospel. 5. It is an adding to the Text, Acts 2. That the visible Church (all of them) and you say did communicate in all things with singleness of heart, and were to be saved. For we have not so much charity to bestow on An●nias, Saphira, and Simon Magus, who were added to the Church visible: but why call you this the Testimony that the Holy Ghost giveth of all them? where did you read or dream this? The Holy Ghosts Testimony is true, and what Divinty is it, that all added to the visible Church shall be saved? deem you with Origen and some others that none are eternally damned? 8. And you say of the visible Church, Acts, 20. 28. All of them were redeemed by the Blood of God. If Luke had said so, I could have believed it, but your saying is groundless. All whom they are commanded to feed, and all who were to be devoured by grievous Wolves, and all the drawn away Disciples of false Teachers, 29. 30. Are all these redeemed by the Blood of God? Th●● Church is an Arminian Chimaera: that all to whom the Gospel is preached by Feeders and Pastors, must be obliged to believe that Christ by his Blood redeemed all and every one of them, is Arminianism. a Corvinus contra. Molm. c. 27. Corvinus and b A●n. Antip. p. 72. 73. Jac. Arminius, c Grevincho. contra. Am●sium. p. 8. 9, 14. 15, 21. Nic. Grevinchovius d Episcop. disp. 6. Thess. 1. 2. Episcopius, e Socinus praebet. Theol. c. 22. f. 139. Socinus f Smalicus resp. ad 4. par. resu Smigles. c. 28 s. 259. Smaleius g Ostorodius justit. c. 36, 37. sect. 2. Ostorodius will thank you, for they hold that Christ gave his Blood for all the damned in Hell, and purposely to redeem them, and for his part gave his life for all the World, and especially for the visible Church. 7. That the Apostle gave thanks to God, for the sound faith of all who professed the Gospel at Rome, and were persuaded that God would perfect the work of salvation in all and every one of the Philippians, is a wicked dream, that they were all partakers of the grace of the Gospel, and that all the Thessalonians, without exception had effectual faith, diligent love, and patient hope. All this is said, without ground of God's Word: and contrary to the Word. Were there none, Rom. 6. Servants of sin? None who walked after the flesh? Rom. 8 So Rom. 14. and Phil. 3. 2. 18. Phil. 2. 21. 1 Thess. 4. 2. 2 Thess. 3. 8 9, 10. None in Philippi whose God was their belly? none who minded earthly things? No dogs? No evil workers? a Robinson. ib. p. 104. Robinson; The Jews were forbidden by God, under the Law to sow their Field with divers seeds, and will he sow his own Field with Wheat and Tares? and b Page 103. the Lords Field is sown with good seed, Mat 13, 24 27, 28. His Vine Noble c Jer. 2. 21. and all the seed true, his Church Saints and beloved of God d Rom. 1. 7. but through the malice of Satan, and negligence of such as keep the field adulterate seed and abominable persons may be. Answ. God who is above a law forbiddeth the Father to kill the son, yet may he command Abraham to kill his son, in positive Laws, such as sowing of seeds, God's practice is not a Law to us; I remember Jesuits, especially Suarez, Didac. Ruiz Molina, Laessius, Lod. Meratius Hiero. Fasolus and their Disciples, the Arminians, labour to prove that God cannot predeterminate the will of man to the positive acts that are in sin: For than he should be the author and cause of sin which he forbiddeth us to do, and he would not do himself, say they, that which he forbiddeth us. Which is but in the general a weak answer, for it followeth not hence, that he is the author of the malice, because he praedeterminates the will to the positive act of sinning. For though God in his working Providence permit wicked men to be in the Church (as you cannot deny his providence here) yet doth it not follow, that he soweth wicked men in the Church. Nor do we say, that it is the Lords appoving and revealed will that hypocrites should join with his friends at the marriage supper of the Gospel, they wanting their wedding garment. It is hypocrites sin that they join themselves to the Church, they being heart Enemies to the truth. And in this respect God soweth them not in the Church. But the question is if the Church and Pastor's sin in receiving such into the bosom of the Church, because they see not, in conscience, that they are regenerated: That we deny, yea the servants bid all come whom they find. Mat. 22. 9 and that by the commandment of God. And in this respect God doth not plant his visible Church a noble Vine, and a Field sown with good seed, yea it is his revealed Will that the Church and the Servants of God invite all to come to Wisdoms banquet, Prov. 9 2. 3. and so all the called externally are not the choice Vines. This you are to prove, that the visible Church in all its members, or essentially as it is a visible Church is a choice Vine, and an holy seed. Nor is it the Pastor's negligence that Tares grow in the Lord's Field (though it be Satan's malice) yea the Pastors here are to invite all to come in, and to call externally all to come to Christ. That they who are invited give not obedience is their own wickedness, but neither the Churches, nor the Pastor's sin. (a) Robinson. There be amongst you hundreds and thousands (b) Robinson. Justis. 212. partakers of the life of God in respect of your persons, but in respect of your Church Communion, and your Ordinances, you are all alike, because you are all alike partakers of one set form of worship. Answ. The Church of the Jews so should be a falsely constituted Church, because however there were many Believers amongst them, yet all are commanded to receive one Ministry of Sc●ibes and Pharisees sitting in Moses chair. But know that the leaven of the external worship (except it evert the foundation) doth not make the Church a falsely constituted Church. a Robinson justis p. 164. Robinson, Mr. Smith truly affirmeth your Church to be a greater Antichristian Ministry and worship then Rome, as the Temple which sanctifieth the gold, and the altar which sanctifieth the offering is greater than the offering: so the Temple of the New Testament, the Church and people of God, by whose Faith all the Ordinances of the Church are sanctified, is greater than the Ministry, worship, or any other Ordinance, and being Idolatrous is a greater Idol. Answ. This is a new point of Divinity that the Faith of the Ministry or congregation sanctifieth the worship; as the Temple did the gold and the altar the offering: yea though the Minister were a Judas, and the people latent hypocrites, the Ordinances of God lose no authority, for all the Ministerial sanctifying of the Ordinances is from Christ the Instituter, not from the instruments; and the Donatists did suspend the power of the Ordinances of God, upon the holiness, or unholiness of the Instruments. 2. The Ministry in its substance is not Antichristian, though it be from the Antichrist. For Prelates giving of a ministry is not to be measured by the particular intention of the Ordainers, but by the Nature of God's Ordinances, and the general meaning of all the Catbolick Church. Robinson here objecteth, The Law saith nemo potest plus juris in alium transfer, quam ipse habet. Prelates have no calling of God themselves, therefore they cannot give it to others. Answ. Prelates reduplicatiuè, as Prelates have no calling, yet as Pastors they have, and Antichristian prelacy destroyeth not the essence of a Pastor's office in the subject. They object, as a Prelate he ordaineth Ministers, and not as a Pastor. Answ. 1. as a Prelate he usurpeth to give a Ministry, but as a Pastor he giveth it. 2. He invadeth the place of the Church and with consent of the Church standeth for the Church, though he be not the Church, but a simple Pastor, therefore what Ministry he conferreth, it is the deed and fact of the Church. 3. They object, No man can give that which he hath not. Answ. No man can give that which he hath not, neque virtualiter neque formaliter, true; what he hath in no respect, that he cannot give. What he hath in virtue or in some respect, that he can give. What baptism the heretical Minister hath Ministerially, that he may give validly. a Hieron. in dialed advers. Lucif●rian. Hieronimus saith, the Luciferians admitted Baptism conferred by an Heretic, but not a Ministry, Anatolus was consecrated by Dioscorus, Faelix by the Arrians, as Mr. b john Ball answer to Can p. 98. Ball observeth. So c Bellarm. de sacrific. li c. 26. Bellarmine. d Gratian. decret c. 1. q. 1. c. 32. 32. Gratian e Nazianz. Orat. 40. Nazianzen, f August. confess. ar. S. August. They say g Apol. c. 1. we find it by experience that the refusing of Church-communion hath been blessed of God, to their conversion who were holden cut. Answ. Manass●h his being bound in fetters was a means of his conversion. David by his afflictions learned to keep God's Commandments: did therefore the persecuters of Manasseh or David right and lawfully? The Apostles (say they h Apol. c. 2. had commission to Baptise none but Disciples, Mat. 28. 19 Answ. See you doubt not of a warrant for Baptising children, who are not Disciples: for then the Apostles from this place had no warrant to baptise the infants of Believers. We should (say they i Apol c. 9 open the doors of the Church more wi●● than God alloweth, how shall we lay wittingly and willingly dead stones in the living Temple? If Christ be a Head of pure Gold, and the Churches golden candlestick, how shall we be allowed to put in leaden members? Answ. This argument is against the Lord's dispensation, because not without his providence are hypocrites in the Church. It is not against his Commandment, for he alloweth and commandeth the Church to take in Hypocrites, so they profess the truth, and so commendeth that leaden toes and members be added to Christ the Head of gold. Christ is the Head of the invisible Church properly and according to the influence of the Life of God, but he is the head of the visible Church as it is such according to the influence of common gifts, which may be in Reprobates. And they may be this way in Christ's Body, who are not of Christ's Body, as Augustine saith. We are (say they) accessary to the profaning of the Lords Ordinances. Answ. So far as they are notoriously scandalous they are to be cast out of the Church, and debarred from the Seals. The Church (say they) shall be pestered with profane and carnal men, and the blind shall lead the blind, if all be admitted to Church fellowship. Answ. The admission or keeping in of all to partake especially of the Lords Supper, we do not allow. 2. The multitude of carnal men in the Church is an inconvenience of providence, and resulteth by accident, from the receiving of Professors to Christ's Body visible; but it is no kindly fruit growing therefrom. A faithful servant (say they a Apol. c. 11. would admit none into his Lord's House, but serviceable instruments, therefore neither may the Stewards of God's House (which is a spiritual building) admit any but men of spiritual gifts, living stones, sanctified and meet for the Lords Worke. Answ. The comparison halteth many ways. 1. All in a Noble man's house, are not stewards, you make all the Church to be stewards having the power of the Keys to put in, and out. 2. Members are received into the Church, not only because they are serviceable, for the master's use, but to be made serviceable and to be polished by the Word of God, and care of Pastors, but servants are taken into great houses because they are serviceable; for if that follow, that they are made more serviceable, it is not the intent of the Lord of the house, or of the under-stewards. 3. The Oeconomy of Prince's houses is no rule for the government of the house of the King of Kings. Mr. Coachman b Peter Coachman cry of ● stone sect. 7. p. 16. 17. while the materials and pillars of the house are rotten, and the house founded upon Briers, Brambles and rubbish, that is, while wicked men are members, no Discipline, 〈◊〉 Reformation, no censures, no Election by the multitude will do good. Answ. The connexion is naught, the fruit and power of God's ordinances depend not upon the conversion or non-conversion of the instruments, the preaching, Sacraments, censures are of themselves golden and exercisers and dispensers thereof, following Christ's direction therein are golden, eatenus in so far, though in respect of their personal estate they be wooden and clay members void of faith. 2. It is false that the visible Church is founded upon men or their Faith. God strengtheneth the bars of his own Zion. And Christ and the Gospel are the pillars thereof. Nay the Church strandeth not upon Peter and Paul and the Apostles faith subjective, because the Apostles were holy men and Believers, but upon the Apostles Faith objectiuè, that is, upon the saving truth that the Apostles delivered from Christ to the Churches, Ephes. 20. 21. 1 Cor. 3. 11, 12. Mat. 16, v. 18. Quest. 3. Whether or no there be a true Church communion with ordinary hearers of the Word, who cannot be admitted to the Lords Supper, and what union excommunicated persons who d● hear the Word have with the visible Church? and how the preaching of the Gospel is an essential note of the visible Church? For the clearing of these considerable points tending much to a fuller understanding of a true visible Church in its right constitution, let these considerations make way to what we can say of these points. 1. Dist. There is a difference betwixt ordinary and settled bearers of the Word, and transient and occasional hearers. 2. Dist. Public ordinary preaching for the converting of soul●● is a public Church- worship. Another set way of ordinary public use of converting souls, by preachers not in office, we know not. 3. Dist. Some be members of the visible Church properly and strictly, such as are admitted to all the seals of the covenant and holy things of God. Others are less properly, or in an inferior degree, members of the visible Church, such as are baptised and are ordinary hearers of the Word, but not admitted to the Lords Supper, of old the Catechumenoi were such. As there be decrees of Citizens, some having all the privileges of the City and some only right to some privileges, but not to all. 3. Some have right to all, and are most properly in the visible Church. 4. Dist. Excommunication being medicinal and for edificati●●, cannot cut off the member close, except we should confound killing and curing. 5. Dist. There is a note of a ministerial Church, such as is preaching of the Word of God, and a note of the visible Church of Believers, and obedience professed to the Word preached is such a note. 6. Dist. Preaching of the Word may well be a note of the Church invisible in fieri while it is in gathering, because God purposeth to convert where the Word is purely preached. 2. A note of the invisible Church already constituted, in so far as it is obeyed. And. 3. A note of the Ministerial Church, in respect where God holdeth out the Standard of the preached word, there is his ordered army. 1. Conclusi. To communicate with the Church ordinatily and of set purpose is an act of external Church communion. 1. Because if the preacher in preaching edify the Church convened for that effect to receive edification, and if he convince the Infidel by preaching and cause him fall down and worship God, and report that God is in that meeting, then to communicate with the Church in hearing and preaching is an act of external Church communion. Because an act of worship terminated and bounded upon the Church is a Church-act. But the prophet prophesying in public to the Church edifieth the Church and converteth infidels in causing them to worship & acknowledge God's presence in a Church-meeting. As is clear. 1. Cor. 14. 4. He that prophesieth, edifieth the Church. v. 5. v. 12. seek that you excel to the edifying of the Church. 29. Yet in the Church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, etc. 23. If therefore the whole Church be come together into some place and all speak with tongues, and there come in these that are unlearned and Unbelievers, will they not say that ye are mad? 24. But if all prophecy and there come in one that believeth not, or one that is unlearned, he is convinced of all, etc. And that this is a Church-meeting formally, it is clear, because it is said, 34. let your women keep silence in the Churches, now women out of a Church-meetings are not commanded silence, for Tit. 2. 4. They are to teach the younger women: and at home in the house, Prov. 31. 26. She openeth her mouth with wisdom, and the Law of grace is in her lips. Acts 20. 7. and upon the first day of the week the Disciples came together to break bread, and Paul preached to them. Had they not then a Church Communion in hearing the Word, as in the receiving the Sacrament: Our brethren say that eating one bread together at the Lords Table is properly a Church Communion. For thereby, we may eat one bread we are one body, for we all partake of one bread 1 Cor. 10. 18. But heating one word is not a Church-communion, because Infidels and Turks who are not members of the Church may hear one word, 1 Cor. 14. 24 25. I answer 1. We speak of a professed and resolved hearing. Turks and Infidels coming in without purpose to join with the Church, as 1 Cor. 14. 2. 25. are not such hearers. 2. If this were a good reason, a latent hypocrite eating one bread with sound believers at the Lords Table, should keep no Church-communion with the Church, for by our brethren's Doctrine, a ●ypocrilt is no more in deed and truth a member of the visible Church than a leg of wood is a member of a living body. But we hold that he is a true member of the Church as visible, and that his binding and losing with the Church (suppose he be an Elder) is no less valid in Heaven, when Christ's order is followed, than the binding and losing of a believing Elder, and therefore that his eating at the Lords Table is an act of external Church-communion, and of visible fellowship in a visible body, and the same is every way strong for a visible Church-fellowship, in hearing the Word, for that same Christ and fellowship with him, which is sealed in the Sacrament, is preached in the Word; and as joint communicating of hypocrites and Believers is an external Church-communion, aught to seal an internal communion with Christ and his Church, so the joynt-hearing in a professed adjoining to the visible Church it a compartning visible in a visible worship, and a prosessing of an union with that same Christ and his Church in the same word preached. For as the Apostle concludeth the unity of the catholic Church by one Baptism, so doth he conclude it from one faith, and one Lord of the covenant preached to all. 2. The visible Church of called and chosen, and not chosen, is the scope of the parable, Mat. 22. and Luk. 14. 16. 17. etc. Now v. 9 Mat. 21. All are bidden come to the Supper, and be joynt-hearers of the Word of the Gospel, though all be not choses who are externally called. 1. Also if converting of souls to the Faith of Christ be the most formal and specific act of edifying, and of laying stones upon the chiefe corner stone in the building, 1 Pet. 2. 4. 5. seeing edifying is the end whereof Christ ascending on high, gifted his visible Church with Pastors and Doctors, Eph. 4. 11, 12, 13. Then hea●ing and joynt-hearing of a sent Pastor, Rom. 10. 14. must be formally external co●worshiping in a visible Church. For our Brethren hold that there be now no Pastors under the New Testament, but in relation to a particular and visible congregation. Now if our Brethren say, that pastoral teaching is an act of a visible Church, hearing of pastoral preaching must also be an act of Church worship. For they are relata quae se mutuo ponunt & tollunt; yea members of a visible congregation have no Church-worship except receiving of the Sacraments and Church censures, if hearing of a pastor be not Church-worship. 3. Under the New Testament every congregation to our Brethren Mat. 13. The Church of hearers is called the visible kingdom, v. 41. Exod. 20. Hear O Israel Ez. 33 31. they sit before thee (to hear the Word) as my people. is a visible mount Zion. Now if under the New Testament the people are to incite one another to public Church worship, and say. Let us go to the mountain of the Lord, to the house of the God of Jacob. and he will teach us his ways, Esa. 2. 3. And if they shall publicly worship and ask the way to Zion, that they may be joined in covenant to the Lord, Jer. 50. v. 5. Then is hearing of he doctrine of God's ways and covenant, a public church-worship, and the service of the Church or house of the God of Jacob. But the former is true; Ergo, so is the latter. 4. If it be not Church-worship to hear the Word, a pure and sound preaching of the Word is no note of the Church, contrary to the Word, and the unanimous consent of the Reformed Churches. 5. Hearing of the word is a worshipping of God. Ergo, the Church-hearing of the word must be Church-worship. For all professing by their visible communion in hearing the Word, one Faith, one Lord, one Hope of glory, and that as one visible body, must thereby testify they be all joynt-worshippers of Christ and of one God, whose covenant they preach and hear. 6. Professed hearing separateth a visible member of the church (in genere notarum visibilium, in the kind of visible marks) from an Infidel and Turk no less than the receiving of the Lords Supper doth. 7. Professed hearing maketh the hearer under a ty of being particularly rebuked of his sin, but particular pastoral rebuking being done by the power of the keys presupposeth the rebuked to be within; for the Church cannot judge those who are without. 2. Conclu. Excommunicated persons though they be debarred from the Lords Supper, and delivered to Satan, and to be accounted as heathen and publicans, yet are they not altogether and every way cut off from the visible Church. 2. Thess. 3. 14. If any obey not our word by letter, ●arke such an one, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, with the note of Excommunication (saith a Beza. an. in loc. Beza) and have no fellowship with him, that he may be ashamed, that is, as Calvin well expoundeth, exclude him out of the company of the faithful, and Calvin come. in loc. excommunicate him. So also c Bulling. come. in loc. Bullingerus d Marlorat. in loc. Marlorat and e Iodoc●s vullichius in loc. jodoc. Vullichius, v. 15. Yet account him not as an enemy, but admonish him as a brother. I know Mr. Robinson f Robin. 249. denieth this place to be understood of any Excommunicated person, but he willeth the Thessalonians not to countenance, but to show their dislike of idle persons▪ and his reasons are. 1. Because if Christ biddeth account the excommunicated person as an Heathen and a publican, would Paul thereafter account him as a brother? 2. Idolaters and Heretics are to be excommunicated, and will you have such a brotherhood, as brother idolater? But I answer, 1. We read not in the New Testament, where Christ, or his Apostles bid break off Christian fellowship with any but there is excommunication signified. If these words 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, have no fellowship with him, that he may be ashamed, signify, not to forbear fellowship with him, as a cast out person, but only to show their dislike of the sin, that he may see it, and be ashamed: as Robinson saith, there is no more punishment to be inflicted on a contumacious person who will not obey the Apostles words, then is inflicted for any sin to which contumacy is not added; for we are to show our dislike of any sin, even the seen infirmities of our Brethren. For Augustine saith, peccatum tuum est, quic quid tibi non displicet, every sin in another is thine, against which thou showest not thy dislike. 2. The Law of nature doth enforce, that Lev, 19 17. we should generally rebuk our brethren, and so show our dislike for any sin. 3. Be not mixed in fellowship with such a man, is a public ab●●nence from communion with him, else it doth not shame him. For every shown dislike or not-communion with another in his sin, is not that which will put public shame on him, that he may repent, as is intimated here. 2. Christ biddeth not account him a Publican, but 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is a note of similitude. Simile qua simile non est idem. Every thing like is not the same. So that he may well be accounted as an Heathen, not being altogether an Heathen, and yet a Brother, whose salvation and gaining you must intend. Nor is it altogether against the comparison of Christ, and that gentle waiting on perverse idolaters and excommunicate persons to admonish them as Brethren. Seing it becometh us to be merciful as our Heavenly Father is, 2 Tim. 2 24, 25. Mat. 5. 45. And we must forgive our offending Brethren seventy seven times, Mat. 18. 22. And therefore though he were twice excommunicated, he is to be dealt with as a Brother. And an Idolatrous brother is no worse than a Samaritan neighbour or friend. 2. If Excommunication be a medicine of the Church toward a sick son, the end whereof is salvation, that the spirit may be saved in the Lord's Day, 1 Cor. 5. 5. that he may learn not to blaspheme, 1 Tim 1. 12. That be may be gained, Mat. 18. 15. Ergo, he is not altogether cut off from the Church, for delivering to Satan is medicinal, not vindictive, as the great Excommunication is which is called Anathema Maranatha, which we cannot use, but against such, as have sinned the sin against the Holy Ghrist, and is hardly discerned, and I would think, such an one as Julian the Apostate should be debarred from the communion of the word preached. But these who are ordinarily excommunicated for contumacy and particular faults, and not for universal Apostasy, are not altogether excluded from all brotherhood of the Church. 3. If the excommunicate person be excluded from all privileges of Church-fellowship, than also is he excluded from hearing the word as a sick patient under Church-medicine, for it is a pastoral, and so to our Brethren a Church-act, that the Shepherd strengthen the diseased, heal that which is sick, bind up that which is broken, bring again that which is driven away, seek that which is lost, Ezec. 34. 4. And feed the flock with knowledge, as a Pastor according to God's heart and a Bishop. Jer. 3. 15. Act. 20. 28. 1 Pet. 5. 2. Jerem. 23. 1, 2, 3 4. Jer. 50. 7. Esay 56. 10. Z●ch. 11. 9, 10, 11, 12. It is a Pastoral act to preach with all authority, reprove, rebuke, exhort with all long suffering and doctrine, 2 Tim. 4. 2. 5. He should as a Pastor teach sound doctrine, exhort, convince the gainsayers, and silence heretics, Tit. 1. 9 But seeing the excommunicated person is not excluded from hearing the word, and the Pastor hath a Pastoral care of his soul, and is to intend that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord, 1 Cor. 5. 5. he cannot be utterly cut off from all Church-fellowship. Also this Author a The way of the Churches, ch. 1. sect. 1. p●op. 3. saith, that Church-members are to be admonished, and if we do it not, we hate them in our heart, Levit. 19 17. and if we warn not an Achan, his sin is the sin of all Israel. Now if an excommunicated brother remain one, whom we are to gain, and whose salvation we are to intend, if he be an ordinary coworshipper in hearing, the object of Pastoral and brotherly teaching and admonishing, he cannot be wholly excluded from all Church-fellowship. And this also proveth that these be members of the visible Church in some degree of Church-worship, who yet are debarred from the ●eale● of the Covenant. And it cannot be said that the excommunicated person ought not to rebuke his brother, and not hate him in his heart, as Levit. 19 17. Penal excommunication looseth not from the Law of nature. But our brethren make rebuking and mutual exhorting one of another Church duties of watchfulness; then is the excommunicated in some degree of Church-membership. Nor can our brethren here reply with good reason. Indians and Turks may hear the Word as well as the excommunicated person, and therefore hearing of the word is no note of Church communion. I answer, the Turk and Indian must hear the word, but at the by, and not professedly; but the excommunicated person by the●ty of his Covenant made in baptism, and that relation he hath to the Church under whose cure he is, for the saving of his spirit, and to that Gospel which he professeth, is obliged to the Church-communion of public hearing the Word; yea, and according to his oath given, to be subject to the ministry of such a man whom he chose for his Pastor, to give obedience to him in the Lord, however in that one particular for which he is cast cut, he hath failed against all the foresaid obligations. 2. The Church, as a visible Church, exerciseth no medicinal acts upon Turks or Heathen persons, and doth not repute them as Heathen, but doth repute them to be Heathen. Nor hath the Pastors any pastoral charge of Turks and Heathens, except they would desire to be baptised and profess the faith. But the Church as the Church exerciseth medicinal acts of shunning Christian fellowship with the excommunicated, and that with a continuated intention even when he is excommunicated, that his spirit may be saved in the day of God, and the Pastor hath a pastoral, and so a ministerial care and obligation of pastoral teaching, admonishing and persuading him to return to God. 4. Neither do we mean with a Suarez to●. 5. ad tert. part. Thom. de censur. disp. 5. sect. 1. de excom. not. 3. Suarez and other Schoolmen, that excommunication doth not so cut off a member as it removeth not that baptismal character, or that passive power to receive the Sacraments; or that the prayers of the Church are not offered of direct intention, for the inwardly humbled and repenting excommunicated person, while the sentence of absolution be pronounced by the Church, as b Soto 4. d. 22. q. 1. Soto, c Adrian de clavibus q. 3. ad 1. Adrianus, d Alanus de sacrif. Miss, l. 2. c. 3. and Alanus thinketh, because forsooth f Innocentius 1 1 1. de excom. Innocentius 111. saith, the excommunicated person, though repenting, and doing what he can to be reconciled to the Church, yet without absolution from the censure, he is mortuus Ecclesiasticè dead Ecclesiastically, and so in Heaven also. Though g Navar. c. 27. n. 18. Navarre, h Turrecrem. c●si quis Episco. 11. quest. 3. Turrecremata, i Richard. in 4. d. 18. sect. 7. q. 2. Richard, k Anton. 3. part. tit. 24. c. 76. Anton. think the penitent excommunicated person is included in the general desires of the Church in their prayers, because it is not the intention of the Church to exclude a true and living member of Christ's body from a communion spiritual with Christ. But our meaning is, that the excommunicated person is deprived of actual fellowship with Christ in the Seals of the Covenant, as the l Concil. Araus. 11. q. 3. Council of Arausican, A gremio 〈◊〉 matris Ecclesiae & consortio totius Christianitatis climina●us. His sin is bound in Heaven, yet so as the salvation of his spirit is intended by the Church, see for this m Augast. in Joa●. tractat. 5. and epist. 77. Augustine. We understand not a baptismal character, except regeneration and 〈◊〉 of sins, which cannot be taken away by excommunication, and therefore a moral claim to the holy things of God, and that for that time and state is rather removed, than any internal right to Christ. Therefore some say, in this he loseth rather possessionem quam jus, possession then right. As a Nobleman, for some offence, of three dwelling houses that he hath, is confined to one of the three, so as he may not remove from that one; yet doth he not lose right to the other two. 5. Our brethren's doctrine is, that none can be judged and excommunicated, but those who are within the visible Church; n 1 Cor. 5. 11, 12, now none are within to them but such as are supposed to be regenerated and saints; yea and more, faithful brethren, not only in profession (saith our o The way of the Churches, cap. 3. sect. 3. Author) but also in some measure of sincerity and truth. Hence none are to be excommunicated and delivered to Satan, but regenerated persons; than it cannot be the Church's mind, that the excommunicated persons are wholly cut off from the visible Church, since they being the true matter of the Church, as our brethren teach, remains therefore a part of Christ's body in covenant with God, having right to the promises of the Covenant, and so these to whom the keys are given, by our brethren's grounds, and are regenerated, can only be excommunicated, and none else can be excommunicated, by their way also, for the unregenerated are without, and so cannot be cast out. I know not what Mr. Robinson can mean p Robin. justif. of separat. p. 248. that the Church cannot cast out (as he saith) any part or parcel of her true matter. The Church cannot excommunicate the regenerated, 1. Because (saith he) the true matter of the Church, hath the form and essence of the Church, and the Church cannot cast out her own essence. 2. The Church should deliver to Satan the true members of Christ's body, which he abhorreth to write. But I have learned of q Coachman, cry of the stone sect. 4. p. 12. Mr. Coachman that only the converted are to be excommunicated, because they have a spirit to be saved in the day of the Lord, 1 Cor. 5. The non-converted are flesh▪ but truly this is strange, Paul speaketh of the incestuous person according to the judgement of charity, as supposing hi● to have flesh and Spirit, as he professeth himself to be a member of the Church; but truly this is weak: for in the same Chapter Paul will have drunkards, railers, extortioners, idolaters, to be excommunicated. Peter did really excommunicate Simon Magus excluding him from part and portion in the visible Church. Act. 8. 21. and are such not to be excommunicated because they cannot be cast out, who were never within? See into what inconveniences our brethren are fallen, while they agree (I speak with reverence of those godly men) with Anabaptists in the nature of the visible Church. But truly hypocrites are within the Church, and when their hypocrisy doth break out into grievous scandals, they are to be cast out of the visible Church; but they cannot indeed be cast out of the invisible Church, because they were never within the same, but our brethren still do confound the visible and invisible Church, which in nature August. de doct. Christi, l. 3. c. 32. Contra cresoens. l. 2. c. 21. and essence are opposed by way of contradiction, if Augustine say right, multae oves extra visiblem Ecclesiam, & multi lupi intra. For the Church invisible as it is such and essentially, is not the Church visible; and the Church visible is not essentially invisible. But to return to Robinson, if the regenerate cannot be excommunicated, they cannot fall into such grievous sins as incest, murder, and contumacy to the Church, which deserveth excommunication. But this latter none can say but Novatians. Ergo, neither can the former be said. The major is undeniable, whosoever can, and may commit sins deserving excommunication, are to be excommunicated, as Christ saith, Matth. 18. 17. 18. and Paul, 1 Cor. 5. 4, 5. Now if the converted cannot fall into grievous sins against the Church, such as contumacy; neither can they fall into grievous sins against God, 2. By this doctrine no professors are to be excommunicated at all, for all within the visible Church are either converted or non-converted; the converted are not to be excommunicated, saith Robinson, because they are the true members of the Church, and of Christ's body; now the non-converted far less can be excommunicated, because those cannot be cast out who are not within, as our brethren teach. For they are the false matter of the Church, and no part of it, yea (and as our Author saith,) have no measure of sincerity and truth; and therefore cannot be members of the Church. Now the Church (say our brethren) cannot judge those which are without, 1 Cor. 5. 12. 3 This opinion is just the opinion of the Anabaptists, that the true members of the visible Church are only regenerate persons, and they only have the essence of the true membership, which is false; they are within the visible Church, and truly within the net, and a part of the ground called the Kingdom of God, Matth. 13. 4. Though they be not members of the invisible Church of believers and the redeemed in Christ. 4. The Nicolaitans, jezabel, the false Apostles, the spreaders of Balaams' doctrine, Revel. 2. and those who offend in Christ's Kingdom are all necessarily either not to be excommunicated at all, or necessarily they are all unconverted, by Robinson's doctrine, or all converted, by Mr. Coachman's way. And the Church then shall not bind and lose in Heaven, but clavae errante, except they be all known certainly to be converted who are excommunicated, or certainly known not to be converted. But this were ridiculous; the object of excommunication by Christ is one which refuseth to hear the Church, whether he be converted, or not converted. 5. All our Divines standing for the cerainty of the perseverance of the regenerated, answer Papists and Arminians alleging for the apostasy of the Saints, the example of the regenerated who may be excommunicated, that excommunication doth never evince that the person excommunicated is out of the state of grace, but only that he hath fallen into a scandalous external fact, which deserveth that he should be delivered to Satan, and that one may be a member of the visible Church and converted to God, who is excommunicated. Lastly, Robinson's arguments do bewray great Ignorance in the doctrine of the true Church; to wit, that first it should follow, that if the Church excommunicate a converted person, it should destroy its own essence; for conversion is the essence of the invisible Church, not of the visible Church, and is not destroyed by excommunication. But the believer is edified thereby, for he is delivered to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord; but that he is cut off from the visible Church is no more inconvenient, then to cut off a rotten apostume of excrescent carnosity of the body, which hurteth the physical integrity of the body, but doth not take away any part of the essence, so as it should not thereafter be a living body. His mixed argument hath a cry, but no force; It should follow that the member of Christ's body (saith he) should be delivered to Satan; which is not inconvenient, for this is the Ordinance of Christ to save the men's spirit, and to teach him not to blaspheme, 1 Cor. 5. 5. 2 Tim. 1. 20. It were an inconvenience to deliver a member of Christ to Satan morally, as 1 Cor. 6. 15. This is a sinful deliverance, when one is given over to Satan, that Satan may work in him as in his workhouse, and as in a child of disobedience, Ephes. 2. 2. a converted soul cannot thus be delivered to Satan, and this we abhor to write, no less than Robinson. But to deliver to Satan penally, as to a penal tortuter who worketh sorrow and fear in the conscience for sin, to humble the offender, and to save his spirit in the day of Christ, is neither horror by word nor by writ, but the Word of God, 1 Cor. 5. 5. Now to say something of the sorts and nature of excommunication. We acknowledge not what a Navar. Enc●●r. c. 27. n. 13. Navarrus and b G●●g. n. q. 3. c. 1. Gregory say, That excommunication, whether just or unjust, is to be feared; for, the curse causelessly doth not fall. The sentence is either given out, a jure, vel ab homine by the Law, or the persons. Secondly, it is either just or unjust. Thirdly, and that three ways; Exanimo, good or ill zeal; secondly, Ex causa, a just or unjust cause; thirdly, Ex ordine, when order of Law is kept. An unjust sentence is either valid or null. That which is invalid is either invalid through defect of the good mind of the excommunicators, and this is not essential to the excommuncations validity. That which is invalid this way only, ligat, it bindeth in fo●o exteriore. But that which is unjust through want of a just cause, it only bindeth from external communion; but because God's Ordinances are to be measured from their own nature, and the general intention of the Catholic Church, and not from abuses and particular intentions of such excommunicators; therefore they do not exclude from the general Church-desires. The fourth Council of Carthage, c Council 4. Carthag. as also d Gerson de excom. cons. 4. Gerson saith, an unjust sentence neminem gravare debet; should affright no man. I see not a warrant for division of excommunication into penal and not penal excommunication. The ancients made some excommunication not penal, as the e Concil. Carthag. 5. c. 10. fifth Council of Carthage, and f Concil. Arelatens. 2. c. 19 Concilium Arelatense. g Concil. Turraconens. c. 6. Turraconense, h Concil. Agathens c. 35. Concilium Agathense. As if one should culpably absent himself from a Synod, erat privatus Episcoporum communione; He was for a space excommunicated from the communion of other Bishops. The Canonists i Stephan. Qu. in summa. Bulla 5. con. provinc. n. 7. q. 18. infer, that this excommunication was no Church-censure; and k M Antonius de Dom. Arch. Spalat. de repub. eccles. l. 5 c 9 n. 6, 7. M. Antonius of Spalleto defendeth them in this. But since Christ for scandals appointed only public rebuking; or secondly, confessing; or thirdly, excommunication from the Church, not only of Church guides, but of professing believers; l Mat. 18. 17, 18. we see not how any are to be excommunicated from the fellowship of the Clergy, or church-guide only. For Christ ordained no such excommunication. and therefore we are to repute this a popish device. Zosimus m Z●s. epist. 2. saith Zancbius, n Coelcst. cp. 6. Celestinus, o Horm. cp. 45 Hormisda and Pelagius 2. p Pelag. 2. cp. 1 did threaten to excommunicate john of Constantinople from the communion of the Apostolic seat, and of all Bishops. Spalleto his argument q M. Anton. de dom. loc. citat. n. 8. for this sort of excommunication is, 2 Thessalonians 3. 15. which commandeth all Thessalonians to forbear any fellowship with such as obeyeth not the Apostles doctrine, and doth not insinuate any excommunication from the society of church-guide only. Nay, such an excommunication is not in God's Word. Cajetan r Cajet. come. in 2 Thess. 3. 15 calleth it excommunicatio claustralis, whereby some were interdicted the company of some other Church-orders. It is true, that in the ancient Church the excommunicated person was debarred from coming to the Church to hear divine Service. And Sylvester appointeth three degrees of excommunication; first, Debarring of the contumacious from entering into the Church; secondly, A suspending of them from communion with the Church; thirdly, An anathema or imprecation by cursing them. So the fifth Synod under Symmachus appointed first that the contumacious should be deprived of the Communion; and if he should not repent, it was ordained, ●● anathemate feriatur, that he should be cursed. So say divers of the Schoolmen and Casuists, as s Solo disp. 22. q. 1. art 4. Soto, t Paludanus. d. 18. q. 6. Paludanus, u Cajet. in verb. excom. major. c. ultimo. Cajetanus, x Sylvest. excom. n. 5. Sylvester, y Navar. in summ● 27. n. 19 Navarrus, that it is not lawful to heart service, or to be present at a Mass with an excommunicated person. But in the z Concil. Car. ●hag. 4. c. 84. Ep●scopus nullum pre●ibeat ingredi Ecclesiam, & audi● verbum ' Dei sive gentilem, sive h●reticum, sive judaemn fourth Council of Carthage, as a ‛ De consestat. didst. 1. c. 67 Papists acknowledge, no excommunicated person is debarred from hearing the Word. But it is to be observed carefully, that for the same reasons Papists think the excommunicated persons should hear Sermons and the Word preached, that our brethren say, Because preaching is an act of jurisdiction and authority, but not an act of order; and therefore preaching is not an act of Church-communion, but common to any who have not received orders, and may be performed, as the reading of the Word by Deacons, and those who have Priesthood or power to administrate the Sacraments. And b Innocent. 3. verb. excom. Innocentius the third saith, Preaching is proper to Priests, who have received orders by no divine Law. c Leo 1. cp 63 cap. adjicimus ib q. 1. Indeed Leo the first made a Law of it, for which cause d Suarez. to. 5. disp. 12. the excom sect. 2. n. 4. Christus hic Joan. 21. Mat. 28 Non dedit po●estatem ordinis sed jurisdictionis. Neque jure divino hic actus requirit ordinem, se● authoritatem pasloris. Suarez saith, That Christ in these words, john 21. Feed m●sheep; and Matth. 28. Preach the Gospel; gave power of jurisdiction, but not of order only: It is given commonly (saith he) to the Clergy to preach, and to Deacons, because decentius, it is more fi●ly and decently performed by them then by Laics. Though it be true that two Cardinals, e Tol. come. in Joan. 21. an 7. Toletus and f Cajet. come. in. Joan. 21. v. ib. Cajetanus be against Suarez in this, and say, that, john 21. Peter is made the head and universal Pastor over sheep and lambs to feed and govern them. And g Navar. sum. 26 c. 11. 163. Navarrus saith, Preaching (soli sacerdotio institutione divina adjuncta est) is by divine institution proper to the Priesthood. Yet this excluding of them from coming into the Church, was from coming in to the holy place only where the Lords Supper was celebrated; and they stood at the Church door where they might hear the Word, and therefore were called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 hearers and murmurers, as h Basil, cp. 3. ad Amph. c. 58. Bas●lius saith, and i Field book 3 of the Church. cap. 15. Field, Excommunication doth not wholly (saith he) cut off men from the visible Church, and his reason is good, because they may and often doeretaine, first, The profession of pure truth; secondly, The character of Baptism; thirdly, They profess obedience to their Pastors; fourthly, They will not join to any other communion. And therefore to say with our Author k The Way of the Churches of Christ in N. E. ch. 4. sect. 6. we dare not, to wit, That though the seed of faith may remain in the excommunicated person; yet to the society of the faithful joined in a particular visible Church, they are not knit, but wholly cut off from their communion. Also, he is delivered unto Satan, and therefore wholly cut off from the communion of the Church; and so from the seals, he and his seed, as heathen and heathens seed are. We condemn Novatians, because (as l Cyprianl. 4. cp. 2. Cyprian saith) they denied mercy to the repenting excommunicated person, and because (as m Socrates l. 7. c. 25. Socrates said of them) God only can forgive sins. And we condemn the Donatists, who would not (as n August. contra Donatistas de bapt. lib. 5. cap. 1. Augustine saith) receive into the Church's communion again such as had delivered to persecuters the Bible and other holy things. So we are to condemn these who are more rigorous toward such as are excommunicated, than Christ is: for Christ keepeth them, as sick children, within his visible Church, and useth Satan as the Physician's servant who boileth Herbs and dresseth Drugs for them, while he by God's permission, tormente●hthes spirit with the conscience of sin. As when a child is sick (saith worthy o Cartwright C t●h. Cartwright) the Father calleth a College of physicians to consult about medicine, to be given to the child. So i● the contumacious person under the medicine of excommunication administered by the Church-presbytery. Now this we cannot say of heathen and publicans. And therefore p August. de 〈…〉. Augustine saith excellently, excommunicated persons non esse Ethnicos, sed tanquam ethnicos; are not heathen, but esteemed as heathen. c. 6. and q Chrysostm. ●om. 11. ad Eph. chrysostom saith the same in sense. Yea, I gather this necessary distinction out of the Fathers: as chrysostom r chrysostom. Theophylactus s Theophylact. ●● Mat. 18. Hilarius t Hilarius. that they are not members of the visible Church actu pleno, in a full act, because they want external communion with the Church, yet actu imperfecto, imperfectly they are members. A second distinction I collect from w Ireneus l. 4. c. 62. Ireneus x Gregor. hom. 24. in Evang. Gregorius y Hieron. in Au●s 1. Hieronim. z Optatus con. parm●nd. 1. c. 2. Optatus a August tract. ●● 〈◊〉. 122. Augustine, that they are exclusi ab ecclesia quoad communionem, non ab ecclesia ipsa. They are excluded from the visible communion of the Church, rather than from the Church. A third distinction may be drawn from b Eugenius 4. 〈…〉 ent. Eugenius c Chrysost. hom. 21. in joann. chrysostom d Gregor. Nazi●a. orat. ad ●anct. Gregor. Nazianz●●, while they call Baptism januam spiritualem, and lavacrum animae, the door of our entry to the Church (for which cause papists, though fond, place their Font at the Church-door) as the Lavatur of the soul. So as excommunicated persons are within the door of the visible Church, though not admitted to the King's Table. 4. The Schoolmen do allow to the excommunicated persons, jus, non consortium; right, but not fellowsh ●● 5. e Turr●●rem. l. 1. c. 57 Turr●cremaeta f Vega in Trident●n. con. l. 23 c. 10. Vega. g Pet. a Scto. ● part. defension. B●ent. Soto h Can. loc. come. 4. Canus insin●●● distinctionem inter parts & membra Ecclesiae visibilis, because of some external communion that they have, as Teeth are parts of the body in a new borne Infant; but they are not members, but they deny them to be members because they are cut off. 6. i Suarez. de ●●ipl. virtute Theolig●d. 9 sect. 1. n. 14. Suarez excellently, pr●vantur quoad communicationemcum al●s membris, non quoad esse membri. They are deprived according to the act of communion with other members, not as if they ceased to be members; as a member which cannot receive nourishment is yet still a member. Our Divines from Scripture make three degrees of excommunication. 1. A debarring from the Lords Supper, Mat. 5. 24. but it is not indeed a delivering to Satan or excommunication: this is called the lesser excommunication. 2. A delivering to Satan, the greater excommunication. 1 Cor. 5. 3. 4. of this we speak here especially. 3. Maran-atha in the Syriack an is utter cursing till Christ's second coming. 3. Conclus. We hold the preaching of the word to be an essentia note of the visible Church. Our Brethren as k Coachman. the cry of a stone sect. 3 p 8. Mr. Coachman l Robinson. Justis. of separat. p. 8. Robinson m The way of the churches Ch. 1. Sect. 2. our present Author, deny that the profession or preaching of the Word is a true note of the visible Church. Because, Acts 17, Paul preached to the scoffing Athenians, who were not for that a visible Church. 2. Papists have some of God's Ordinances, and heretics also, as baptism; and the Old and New Testament as the Philistines had the Ark of God amongst them. 3. The word may be preached, where Christ is but gathering a Church, and so is a mean of gathering a Church, and therefore not an essential note of a gathered and constituted Church. But herein our Brethren say no more against the Reformed Churches, than n Stapleton relect. 1. con. de Eccl. 4. 4. ar. 5. & ib. note ●. Stapleton; to wit, that truth of doctrine is no note of the Church, because it is not perpetual and constant. 2. Truth of Doctrine concurs to give being to the Church and to the constitution of it. o Bellarm. de eccls militant. l. 4. c. 2. Bellarm. This note may be found in other societies and companies beside the Church, a● amongst schismatics and Heretics. More of this please the Reader to see in p Costerus de Eccl c. 2. p. 109. Costerus q Gordonius Huntlaeus tom. 1. cont. 2. c. 4. p. 141. q. 4. in the Jesuit Gordonius, Huntlaeus. And this is the doctrine of Socinians, as may be seen in the catechism of r Raccovia. c. 1 Raccovia s Theol. Nicolaides in defenstractat. de eccles. p. 54. 55. in Theo. Nicolaides, and t Smalcius in refut. fran. disp. 6. p. 282. 283. Francis. Smalcius, and Arminians second both in their w Remons. in Belgro in confess. sua. c. 22. Thes. 8. confession: because they think with Socinians, that there is no ministry now necessary, and so public preaching is not a note of the Church, especially since every gifted man may preach the Word. Socinus in his tractate De Ecclesiâ, and his Catechism of Raccovia, saith. Notae evangelicorum nihil valent; ‛ Doctrina pura est Ecclesiae natura & essentia quae dat ei esse, ad●óque signum ejus esse non potest; cum signum ipsum, a re c●jus est signum, differre oporteat. But the truth is, the preaching of the Word hath divers relations. 1. As the members of the visible Church are in fi●ri, in the way to be gathered, the Word preached and believed is a way of gathering a Church, Rom. 10. 14. 1 Cor. 1. 23. 1 Cor. 3. 5. Acts 16. 14. 2. That same word preached, believed, and outwardly professed is a sign of the visible Church. For where God's pastors and shepherds are, there be flocks of redeemed ones, Cant. 1. 8. john 10. 12, 13, 14. 3 The Word simply preached and professed in a settled way of a fixed ministry is a note of a ministerial Church; this is clear from God's intention, for he sendeth it of purpose to save his own, as Rom. 10. 14. Acts 20. 28. For a man lighteth not a Candle in his house for nothing. So this word preached, as it is God's Word, is not properly the form and essence of the Church, but as believed and received, it is the form of the Church invisible. 2. But to profess this word savingly, est signum Ecclesiae, non not A, it is a sign, that doth not infallibly notify to us that such is for this time an invisible Church of redeemed ones: for I have not infallible certainty what one man, or what determinate number of men by name are true believers, profession may beguile me, as also the invisible Church (as such) is believed, and not known infallibly by any note or external mark that incurreth into the senses. Neither is the preaching of the Word a note or infallible mark of the Church ministerial to all, or in relation to Infidels; for the Word preached actu primo & ex naturâ suâ, essentially and of its own nature, is more known and more sensible than the Church: because the preached word is a Doctrine expounding what the true Church is, and we do not expound ignotum per ignotius, vel per aequè ignotum. Darkness cannot let us see darkness, or colours; only light doth reveal things. But the word preached in relation to unbelievers cannot be an infallible note of the Church, for to a blind man the morning as not a sensible mark that the sun is rising; nor is smoke to a dead man, a sensible mark of fire, because he hath no senses to discern either. So to the infidel though the word as a sound, or in a literal evidence be clearer than the Church, and in a confused knowledge he knoweth the one better than the other; yet is the true word, in respect of certain knowledge and spiritual evidence, as dark to him as the Church: for he hath not Ears to hear, nor eyes to see any of the things of God, either the word preached, or the Church; and therefore the word is both by nature and to us, & naturâ & nobis, in respect of distinct knowledge, more known, but not simply as the word, actu primo, but actu secundo, as it both striketh upon outward and inward senses and as i● revealeth and discovereth the things of God, according to that, 1 Cor. 14. 24. But if all prophecy, and there come one who is an unbeliever, and an unlearned, he is convinced of all and judged of all. v. 25. and thus are the secrets of his heart made manifest, and so falling down on his face, he will worship God and report that God is in you, of a truth. So here is God's order how the word preached is a notifying mark discovering to an unbeliever the true Church. It I would point out one of the King's Courtiers by this, that he hath a purple cloak and a blue scarf, if the man to whom I notify the Courtier, do neither know what a purple garment is, nor what a blue scarf is, the mark shall be no mark to him: yet are these sufficient marks in their own nature, if we suppose that no other Courtiers are in that manner apparelled. Therefore I would difference betwixt notam notificantem & notam notificativam, a note that of its own nature doth make a thing known, or that which actually maketh a thing known to some. The settled professed preaching of the Word is a note of the visible Church Ministerial, and that there either is, or in Gods own time shall be some invisible Church of sanctified ones there. 1. Because, Deut. 4. 6 the hearing and doing of God's Word maketh the Church of the Jews a renowned and wise people in the fight of the Nations. 2. The preaching of the Word and administration of the Sacraments are proper to the Church and distinguish them from other Nations, Psal. 147. 19 He showeth his word unto jacob, and to Israel his statutes and his judgements, 20. He hath not dealt so with any Nation. So Deut. 17. 29. 30 31 32. The Lord's worship is so peculiar to his Church as it differenceth them from all others. So Esd. 2. 8. 3. Esa. 59 last verse. 3. The Church is defined, Acts 2. 42. a company of these who profess truly, and continue in the Apostles doctrine and breaking of bread. 4. The planting and gathering of Churches is expounded to be teaching and baptising, Mat. 28. 19 20. 5. Christ's sheep hear his voice in his own sent shepherds, Joh. 10. 27. 28. 6 The Church is a company built upon the Doctrine of the Prophets and Apostles, Eph. 2. 20. 7 The Church is the pillar and ground of truth, 1 Tim. 3. 15. because the Church teacheth, professeth, and keepeth the truth. So a August. l. de unitat. Eccles. c. 2. Augustine b Tertullian advers. Heret. Tertullian c Hieron. come. in Psal. 133. Hierom. d Chrysostom. bom. 40. in Mat. and chrysostom will have us to seek the true Church by the true Word of God, and not by men's word. e Robin's. just. p. 256. Robinson objecteth first; Profession of the truth made by men of lewd conversation maketh them not the Church; because they deserve to be cast out of the Church, but by men visibly and externally holy, Mat. 3. 6. Acts 1. 38. Act. 2. 37, 38. 1 Cor. 15. 1. Mat. 10. 40. 41. Acts 8. 12, 13. Answ. These and many other places do strongly prove our point; and especially, that the profession of Simon Magus who before God deserved to be cast out of the Church, Acts 8. is sufficient to make one a member of a visible Church. Yea but none deserve in foro Ecclesiae, in the Church's Court to becast out, but such as either confess scandalous sins, or are contumacious, or convicted judicially of the same before witnesses, otherways the dearest to Christ, do legally before God deserve all to be cast out. Robinson saith, The word in the Bible is no note of the true Church, but the Word believed and obeyed; for Papists have the Bible. And f Coachman ●ry of the stone sect 3. pag. 8. & p 3. Mr. Coachman saith, the Philistims had the Ark amongst them; and a jesuit at a river side baptised with a skoop a thousand Indians; were they for that a true Church? and Papists, (saith our g The way of the Churches ch. 1. sect. 3 Author) have baptism. Ans. The like is objected by Socinus, Theoph. Nicolaides, Cattch. Raccoviensis, and by Anabaptists. But first we make not the word and material Bible, and naked seals the marks of the true invisible Church; we are now disputing about the marks of a visible Church. 2. We make not the naked presence of Word and Sacraments true marks of the Church; but a settled professed erected feeding by shepherds, feeding with knowledge, we make a mark of the shepherd's Tents; which way neither Philistines nor Indians have the Word of God: and for the Church of Rome; we cannot deny but she retaineth so much of the essence of a ministerial Church, as maketh baptism administrated by them to be true baptism, that is, a valid seal, though she cannot 〈◊〉 be called a true ministerial Church. Other two questions here are shortly to be discussed, as belonging to this purpose; as 1. whether discipline be a mark of the visible Church? Mr. Robinson h Robin's. just. of separ. p. 282, 283. saith, the power of censures is simply necessary for the being of the Church, sundry of our Divines affirm it is. So the i Prof. Leyd. in Synop. pur. Theol. disp. 4. thes. 41. learned Professors of Leyden, and k Ursin, Pareus in Catech. Expl. q. 59 art. 6 de Ecces. Ursin with Pareus. Great l Jun. to 1. disp. theol. 44. Thes. 41 42. Junius saith, it is a note belonging to the Church's order, ad decorum, the m August. confess. art. 7. Augustine confession leaveth it out from amongst the notes, and so doth Calvin n Galvin. inst. 4. c. 1. sect. 9 and Whittakerus o Whittak. de Eccl. cont. 2. q. 5. c. 17. make two notes only, Word and Sacraments. Learned p Beza in confess. art. 7. Beza maketh only the preaching of the Word a note, not excluding the other two. I think Distinctions may help the matter; 1. There is a power of discipline, and there is a care thereof. True Churches have a power given them of Christ, and this Robinson proveth, and no more; yet the care to exercise the power may be wanting in a true Church. 2. Distinct. Right discipline is not necessary for the essence of a visible Church. All our Divines condemn Anabaptists and Pelagians, who plead that righteous men only, and such societies as have right discipline to be true Churches. 2. Novatians and Donatists came near to them in this also, as we may see in q August. cont. Don●●ist. Augustine. So r Seru. of the Church book. 1. ch. 18. Rich. Field, s Parker de polit. Eccl. l. 1. c. 17. Parker, t Cartwright advers. haeres. ibid. citatur. Cartwright make it necessary to the well-being of the Church; 1. Because it is not indifferent. 2. Because it is commanded in God's word. 3. Discipline in the substantial points is immutable. 4. It is necessary in respect of the end. And all this w Parker de Politia l 1. per totum lib●um. the learned Parker demonstrateth to be true. But it is not necessary simply to the being of it: as a City may be without walls, a Garden without an hedge. 3. Distinct. The power and right to discipline is a propriety essential to the Church, and is not removed from it, till God remove the Candlestick, and the Church cease to be a visible Church; but the exercise may be wanting and the Church a true visible Church, from which we are not to separate. 4 Discipline is a necessary note and unseparable from a visible Church, whole, entire, and not lame and imperfect. But ● Church may retain the essence and being of a visible Church, and yet have no discipline in actual use, or little, and though want of discipline do leaven a Church, yet it doth not (as Robinson saith) evert the nature thereof, and turn it into Babylon and a den of Dragons. Robinson will have profaneness and impiety by absolute necessity rooted out by discipline, but he is too hasty. Nay not by public preaching of a sent Pastor, through absolute, but only through ordinary and conditional necessity. You bind the Almighty too hard. The other question is, if conversion of sinners be an ordinary effect of a public and sent ministry? Our brethren in their answer to the 32 Questions sent to them, deny this; but no marvel, seeing all conversion to them is done without the public ministry by only private Christians, and in this we see no necessity of a called ministry to convert men to Christ, which is the doctrine of Socinians and Anabaptists. So x Chemnitius part. 2. Locor. de Eccles. p. 314 Anabaptis●ae dicunt si quis doctrinam Evangelii tr●elligat seve sit sutor sive sartor 〈◊〉 faber eam do●ere & concionari d●bere. Chemnitius, so y Gastius de err●ribus Catabaptistarnm, l. 1. c. 15. Gastius teacheth. The Socinian z Theol. Nicolaides ●● act. 〈◊〉 de Eccles. c. 1. p. 146. Theo. Nicolaides, Luther erred, (saith he) when he asked from Muncerus his calling to preach, Muncerus was an Anabaptist. So a Ostorodius' inst. c. 42. Ostorodius in his institutions, and b Raddetius in notis ad lib. Smigles. p. 32. Raddetius who objected the same that our brethren do, that the whole believers be a royal Priesthood. But though we deny not, but some may be converted by the teaching and private conference of private Christians; yet the ordinary public way is by the Word preached by a se●● Pastor, as is clear, Rom. 10. 14. 1 Cor. 3. 5. Acts 9 10. Acts 10. 5, 6, etc. CHAP. 10. SECT. 10. Concerning our order and form in administration of God's public worship. THe Author here contendeth for the worship of God in its native simplicity, without all ceremonies; to which I can oppose nothing, but shall prove the unlawfulness of humane ceremonies in another Treatise, God-willing. Of the communion of the visible Catholic Church. IEsus Christ hath now under the N. Testament a Catholic visible Church on earth (for of that part of the Catholic Church now triumphing in glory; or of that part which only is a Church of elected Saints, and are not yet formally a professing Church, but only such in the predestinatiun of God, I spoke not now) and to this Church universal, visible, hath the Lord given a ministry, and all his Ordinances of Word and Sacrament principally and primarily and to the ministry and guides of this Catholic visible Church hath the Lord committed the Keys, as to the first subject, and for the visible Church Catholic, including also the invisible Church; as for the object and end hath he given his ordinances and the power of the keys; And the Ministry and ordinances are not given to this or this Congregation which meeteth ordinarily in one place, principally, 1. The Lord jesus gave this Ministerial power to the universal guides of the catholic Church, the Apostles as they did represent the Presbytery of the whole Catholic visible Church, joh. 20. 21. As my Father sent me, so send I you. 22. And when he had thus said he breathed on them, and said, receive the Holy Ghost. 23 whosoever sins you remit, they are remitted; and whosoever sins you retain, they are retained. The Apostles here receive the keys in name of the whole Catholic Ministerial guides. For in this the Apostles must stand in the person and room of a single society of believers united by a Church covenant in one parishonall Church, if our brethren's grounds stand good; so as a Parishional Church must be the only successors of the Apostles, but this no Word of God can warrant. Nor is the Eldership of a single Congregation that which the Apostles here represented; except you say to this Eldership, as to the first subject, is this message of sending, as the Father sent Christ, committed, and to this Eldership within one Congregation is the power Ministerial of pardoning and retaining sins given; For I ask, from whence, or from whose hands do the Eldership of a Congregation receive the keys? from Jesus Christ, say they, but this is no answer, the Ministry according to its institution is no doubt only from the head of the body the Church, from jesus Christ. But I ask now of an ordinary Church-calling; and I demand from whose hands under Jesus Christ have this particular Eldership received Ministerial power: they cannot say from themselves, for they do not make themselves Ministers: they will not say from a College of Presbyters of many congregations, for they are flatly against all such presbyteries, and that which they say indeed, the Eldership of a congregation hath their Ministerial power from the people. Well then, the Apostles when they received the keys they did represent the people: but what people? not the people of a classical presbytery, of a Province, of a Nation, of the whole redeemed Church, but of one single congregation; how shall this be made out of the Text, or out of one Word of God, I see not. 2. Christ ascending on high, and giving some to be Apostles, and some Prophets, and some Evangelists, and some Pastors and Teachers, 12. For the perfecting of the Saints, (not of Ephesus, far less of one single Congregation only) for the work of the Ministry (in general) for the edifying of the Body of Christ (not a congregational body only) 12. Till we all meet in the unity of the Faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ. Consider I pray you, that Christ's intention in giving a Ministry is not for a congregation of forty, or sixty, or a hundred, as if he intended to impawn all power in that congregational body; but he intended the edifying of his body Catholic, and the coming of all to the unity of the Faith. A Congregation of sixty cannot be all Saints, and this power is clearly given to that body, which the Lord is to make a perfect man, according to the measure of the fullness of the stature of Christ, this is a mystical man, and the Catholic body of jesus Christ. Call it a Congregation and you wrest the Scripture, and vilify the noble and large end for the which Christ hath given a ministry: as ask to what end, and to what first and principal subject hath the Lord given reason and a faculty of discoursing, is it to Peter, to john, etc. as to the first subject, and for them as for their good? no, no, it is for and to the race of mankind. The case is is just so here, 1 Cor. 12. 28. God hath placed some in the Church, first Apostles, secondarily Prophets, thirdly Teachers, etc. Is the meaning thus? God hath placed in the body of a single Congregation Apostles? Where do you read that? I believe Apostles have the Catholic visible Church for their Parish; and is it a congregational body, wherein God placed such variety of members, as Apostles, Prophets, Teachers, Works of miracles, gifts of Healing, Helps, Governments, & c? So Rom. 12. 5. So we being many are one body in Christ, and every one members of another. Hence he reckoneth out divers offices in this body. Now this is not one Congregation only, but that one Body of Christ whereof Christ is head, this is the Catholic Church. 2. What power ministerial our Brethren affirm to be given to a Congregation, they say it is given to them under the notion of a flock of redeemed ones, of the Spouse, and body of Christ, as they cite for this act, 20. 28. & Col. 1. 18. Eph. 1. 22 and under the notion of the City of God, the Kingdom, house and building of Christ, but so they come to our hand, for this reduplication, or notion of a flock of redeemed ones, of the body and spouse of Christ, of the City, Kingdom, House, Building, agree first to the Catholic Church as is clear, Col. 1. 8. Eph. 5. 25 26. 1 Tim. 3. 15. Eph. 2. 19, 20, 21, 22. and secondarily only to a Congregation as it is a part of this universal flock. 3. The whole Catholic Church visible is made one ministerial body Cant. 6. 4. beautiful as Tirzah, comely as the City of Jerusalem, terrible as an army with banners. By reason of their order of discipline, and is there called an organical body having v. 6 7 8. Eyes, Hair, Teeth Temples, Locks and having particular Churches under her, three score Queens, fourscore concubines, and virgins without number. Yet is it said, v. 9 My Dove, my undesiled is but one, she is the only one of her Mother. Ainsworth who here may be more than a witness, saith this Ainsworth an. in Cant. 6. one Church is the daughter of Jerusalem who is above and the mother of us ●ll. C●ton a witness not inferior saith on this place: Cotton in Cant. 6. The true catholic Church of Christ is the Mother of all reformed Daughters, and that argument that our Brethren useth to prove a particular Church to be visible, because of external communion (not in one House, for that is accidental to visibility, one congregation may meet in three caves of the Earth, in time of persecution, and yet remain one congregation) holdeth good in this catholic church made up of so many organs, as a congregation is form. 1. Begetting by the Ministry of the word, daughter-Churches to God, as they say a congregation doth, nor is it enough to say jerusalem is not one by external government and order of Discipline, because they cannot meet together to exercise Discipline, but she is one invisibly, because she hath one Faith, one Lord, one Baptism, one Spirit, one Hope of glory. For the Text saith, they have one and the same Organs, Teeth, Eyes, Hair, Temples, Locks; they are one jerusalem, and compact City, one Army terrible by the Sword of of discipline. 2. We do not say, to make them one visible church, that they must have one visible actual government, in external order: for when of a congregation of 60. their be 30 absent through sickness and the business of a lawful calling, they are one Church visible, though in one metting you cannot see them all with one cast of your Eye; and when the church of jerusalem exceeding in number ten thousand, did meet in part. from House to House, that is in sundry Houses; yet continuing in the same doctrine of the Apostles, and in fellowship and in breaking of bread, and in prayer, Acts 2. 46. 32. our brethren will say, they are one church. And therefore the power of Discipline, and the exercise of the Word, Seales, and Discipline in parts, is sufficient to make one visible catholic Church. 4. To that Church hath Christ given, as to the first church, the ordinances and ministry, which he principally intendeth to perfect, to gather, and to bring to the unity of faith in a perfect body by these ordinances and that Ministry; because the wisdom of Christ hath not given his Ministry, and Ordinances to the catholic Church, intending principally to save them, except he give them a power in that Ministry to the first subject, which being put forth in acts may compass that end. But Jesus Christ principally intends, to perfect to gather, to bring to the unity of faith in a perfect body, by these ordinances and Ministry, the whole catholic visible church, and secondarily only this or this particular congregation. Ergo, Christ hath given to the whole catholic Church, as to the first Church, the ordinances and Ministry, and so in this Mioistery catholic, he hath given the Keys to this catholic Church visible as to the first Church. 5. I prove it thus, when ever Chrst giveth gifts to a whole, he giveth it to the whole, by order of nature, before he give it to the parts of that whole, as is clear by induction. He gives Christ a gift to the whole Church, by order of nature, first to the World, Joh. 3. 16. Then to this or this believer of the World. So he giveth redemption and grace by order of nature first to his Church in general, Eph. 5. 25. Christ dieth first for his Church, not this or that single company, or particular person, first for His sheep, that is, the whole flock, Joh. 10. v. 11. then for this or this company, or this of this straying sheep; He came to seek and save, first the lost, Luk. 19 10. then this or this lost man. He died first to gather together in one, not one man only, ye not the nation of the jews only, but to gather together in one, all the Children of God, which were scattered abroad, joh. 11. 25. and he is a propitiatiou by order of nature. First, for the sins of the whole World, 1 joh. 2. 1. and then secondarily, for our sins, so hath he given the gifts of Apostles, Prophets, and Teachers, first to, and for Saints, in common and in general, and not for this and that Saint, or for this company of Saints at Ephesus. Now that particular Congregations are parts of the great visible Church; I prove, and first that they are parts visible of a Presbytery, or a circuit of Congregations, within the local bounds of a Presbytery. I make good thus. Those who have one common necessary object of external government in Church-affairs, those are a whole visible community gifted with power from Christ to rule in that common and necessary object of government, and this and this portion of this whole community must be parts of that whole. But those Congregations within the local bounds of the circuit of a Presbytery have one common necessary object of external government, in Church affairs; Ergo, those Congregations in such a circuit must be parts of this whole. The major I take from our Brethren, who therefore make a particular Congreation to be one in respect of ordinary meeting, to partake of word, seals, and to transect matters of jurisdiction, amongst themselves, but this agreeth to many congregations within one circuit, for they meet occasionally one with another in hearing the word and receiving the seals; and for the assumption I prove it thus, all those congregations have these particulars of external government in Church affairs, which they cannot transact within their own Congregations, but do ex aequo belong to them all. As 1. That they do not give offence one to another; that one Church do not hold the Doctrine of Balaam to the offence and scandal of other Churches. 2. That one Congregation make not Acts and Canons against the Word of God, and against the Acts of another Congregation agreeable to the Word of God. 3. That one Church admonish, rebuke, comfort, provoke another to love and to good works, in such and such points; now though a Congregation make acts and constitutions for governing this, or that member of the community; yet they do not, nor cannot make acts that oblige the community and the Church as the Church; the Church as the Church being a part is to be regulated by the whole, and if there be things that ex aequo concern all, and do not concern one particular Church more than another, one particular Congregation cannot govern in these. And by the like reason particular Churches and classical Presbyteries, and Provincial and national Churches, are parts of the whole Catholic visible Church. 6. Because Christ hath not given the power of Ministry and Ordinances, and Jurisdiction to the single Congregation as to the first subject upon the ground that our Brethren speak, to wit, because the single Congregation is that Spouse to which Christ is referred as an Husband, and that body to which he carrieth the relation of an head, communicating life to all the members, Eph. 1. 22. Col. 1. 18. nor is it that adequat number of ransomed persons, of sheep, of lost ones, of fellow-citizens, of spiritual stones, etc. To the which Christ doth carry that adequat and complete relation of a Saviour, of a good Shepherd, of a Seeker of lost ones, of a King and Governor, of the chief cornerstone. Therefore that visible Church for whose salvation Christ hath given the Ministerial power, must be the larger visible Church, just as the God of Nature hath given to the whole race of sheep, a power to seek their own food, and because of their simplicity, a power to be ordered and led by the shepherd, and secondarily this power is given to this or this flock feeding on Mount Caermel, or elsewhere: so hath the God of Grace given a power to the whole visible Catholic flock to submit themselves, in the Lord, to other guides, and he hath given to the whole company of Shepherds as to the first subject the power of the Keys, and secondarily the power is given to this or this visible Church, and company of Pastors. 7. When any scandalous person is delivered to Satan, he is cast out of the whole Catholic Church; Ergo, he was before his ejection a member of the whole catholic Church, for hecannot be cast out, who was never within. And when he is excommunicated, his sins bound, as in Heaven, so on Earth, that is, not only in that Tract of ground, where a handful of a little Congregation independent (as they say) of 10 or 20 or an 100 doth ordinarily feed, but in all the visible World where God hath a Church. and all both within the little Congregation where he is, and without, are to repute him as an Heathen and a Publican. It is true some of our Brethren say, he is excommunicated only out of that Congregation whereof he is a member antecedentèr, because Christ hath given the power of excommunication only 1 Cor. 5. 4. To the congregated Church, when they are met together to deliver to Satan, and they must do it, in collegio, in consessu, coram tota Ecclesia, before and in presence of the Church congregational, which is to give their consent and hath a certain power of interest in the business, but he is cast out and excommunicated to all other Churches only consequentèr, by consequent, and by virtue of the communion of Churches: I answer, the plain contrary; he is antecedentèr and formally delivered to Satan, by the power of the catholic visible Church which is put forth in exercises, and in act before that Church whereof he is a nearest member. Even as the left hand doth cut off a finger of the right hand, which otherways should infect the whole body. Now it is not the left hand only that cutteth off the contagious and infectious finger, but the whole man, deliberate reason and the will consenteth it should be done for the preservation of the whole man; the left hand is a mere instrument, and the loss of the finger is the loss of the whole body, and the finger is cut off the right hand not antedentèr, and only off the right hand by that power intrinsecall only in the right hand, but intrinsecall in the whole body; it is true the contagion should creep through, and infect the right hand, and right arm first, and therefore incision is made upon the right hand. So if the Eldership of a Congregation deliver to Satan, it is not done by that power that is intrinseally only in that Congregation, but by the power intrinsecall in the whole universal Church, who shall keep communion with him that Eldership cuts him off as the instrument, or hand of the Church catholic, and the incision (as it were) is performed there in that meeting (I will not say of the whole Congregation, that is to be proved) because the contagion shall come first upon these with whom the delinquent is to keep the nearest fellowship, and that Excommunication be performed in a meeting I grant, and the place, 1 Cor. 5. 4. saith so much, and a meeting of the Church. But that that is a meeting of the congregation▪ with favour of the learned, cannot be proved cogently; though I think excommunication when it is actually performed, it should be done before the Congregation, but that is for the edification and nearest and most immediate practice of that Congregation, for the contagion is nearest to them, but the reason why the presence of the Congregation whereof the Delinquent is a member is requisite, is not because this Congregation hath the sole intrinsical power in herself; and because she only doth formally and antecedentèr Excommunicate, and the rest of the Churches consequenter, and by virtue of a communion: for the sister Churches are to debar this excomunicate person from their communion with Christ in the Seals of the Covenant, and that by an intrinsecall authoritative, and Church power, where as if he were not excommunicated, they should have received him to a Communion with them in the Seals, and that by an intrinsecall authoritative and Church power, for one man cannot receive another to the Seals of the Covenant with him; because no one man hath a Church authority. If therefore the Church as the Church is consociated by an intrinsical Church-power should have admitted him, if he had not been excommunicated, it is evident that he was a member not only of the Congregation out of which he is excommunicated, but also of the whole consociated congregations. 2, The man sins are bound on Earth antecedentèr, to all the consociated Churches. He is now equally uncapable of Church-fellowship in all the consociated Churches, as in that Congregation whereof he is a member. All without and within that Congregation are to hold him for no visible Saint; not to eat or drink with him, he is now to all the visible Churches, in regard of visible communion, no member of that body whereof Jesus Christ is head, no part of that City, of that building whereof Christ is the Lord and chief cornerstone. And he is to the sister Churches in their authoritative & Church-estimation (to speak so) and in relation to their power of Jurisdiction, in the very same case a member of Satan, that he is in relation to the authoritative power of Jurisdiction of that Congregation whereof he was a nearest member; just as the finger cut off is alike separated from the body, yea the whole body as from the hand; and it is a wonder to me that Christ giveth an intrinsical power to a Congregation of twenty believers to cut off a member, for the preservation of that little company of the Lords Flock, and that he hath denied that intrinserall power to the whole, which is no less in danger to be infected, seeing Christ principally intendeth in the giving of a Ministry to the whole Church, especially the gathering of the whole body; To the full and perfect stature of the age of Christ, in the unity of Faith, Eph. 4. 11. yet he intendeth the salvation & preservation of the whole from infection more than the salvation of a part of this whole Body. That is, as it you would say, the God of Nature hath given an intrinsical power to five hundred in a City to set guides over themselves and to rule themselves by wholesome Laws, but he hath denied that power to the whole City consisting of ten thousand; and he hath given to the right hand an intrinsical power to consent that a finger in the right hand infected with a Gangrene, be cut off, but he hath denied this intrinsical power to the whole man. I beseech you doth the God of Nature in conferring this power to the right Arm, intent the preservation of the right Arm only, and its wellbeing, and not rather the preservation of the whole body? so doth not Christ intent that the whole consociated Churches shall be preserved from infection, and not that particular Congregation only? Then if Christ's means be congruously fitted for his own end, he must have given an intrinsical power to many consociated Churches to cast out a contagious lump; other ways the consociated Churches are to exercise the punishment of avoiding the Excommunicated person as an Heathen, which floweth from a power which is no ways in them; what conscience is here? 2. What if the Congregation cast the man out, clavae errante, and undeservedly? shall they, consequentèr, as sister Churches, in a brutish fraternity execute a sentence of a power intrinserall in another Church, and not any of them, or their guides have any power to discern, whether the censure be justly or unjustly infflicted? This our Brethren condemn in their own Congregation: for because the reputing the ejected man an Heathen, is a matter of practice, that concerneth the conscience of every one of the Congregation, therefore must all the Congregation give their powers and consent; yea do more than consent (say some) even exercise jurisdiction, or a power not different from it. Some things are objected against this way. Ob. 1. The power of the Keys cannot be given to the catholic representative Church, or catholic Presbytery, as to the first subject to be an ordinary and constant means of edification; The exercise whereof, in an ordinary and constant way, is impossible; But the exercise of this Ministerial power given to the catholic visible Presbytery, as to the first subject, in an ordinary and constant way, is impossible; Ergo, such a power is not given to the Catholic representative Church, as to the first subject, to be an ordinary and constant means of edification. The proposition is clear, it is uncongruous to the Wisdom of Jesus Christ that he should give that to be a mean, which possibly cannot attain the end. The Assumption is as evident; for the Catholic visible Presbytery cannot meet in an ordinary and constant way. Answ. 1. By distinguishing the Major proposition; That power of the Keys remote cannot be given to the catholic presbytery as to the first subject, the exercise whereof in an ordinary and constant way is impossile physically and ex natura rei. True, but now the Assumption is false; That nearer power cannot be given as a mean of edification, the exercise whereof is morally and through the corruption of men's nature physically impossible. That is false, and denied, and in either sense the conclusion cannot be true. 2. I grant the whole, and yet nothing is concluded against us. For the power of the Keys is not given to the catholic Presbytery as to the first subject, to be a mean of edification in an ordinary and constant way; but only in an extraordinary and occasional way, in those things which concern the power of jurisdiction belonging to the whole Catholic Church. By (extraordinary) here I mean not that which is against a particular Law of God, and cannot be done without a Divine dispensation of providence, but by (extraordinary) I mean that which is rarò contingens, and doth not oft fall out; as almost it never falleth out that the universal Church hath need to excommunicate a national Church, for all and every one of a national Church do never fall away from the Faith. Yet a remote power for Excommunication, is in the Catholic visible Church. 2. It is objected, if the visible catholic Church be the first and principal subject of all Church-power, than a Presbyterial Church cannot Excommunicate, but by a power derived from the catholic visible presbytery, and so the presbytery should ●● excommunicate, but by consulting with the Catholic visible Church, but this latter were impossible and absurd; Ergo, so must the antecedent be. The counexion is proved thus; for as ●● things have beat in so far as they partake of the Fire; because heat is originally in the Fire, as in the first subject, so all Churches exercising Excommunication must partake of the power of censures, that is, first and principally in the original subject, to wit, in the catholic visible Church. And it would seem that none can use or put forthin acts, the power of the catholic Church visible, without the conscience of the catholic Church visible. Answ. This occasioneth me to speak somewhat of the power of the presbyterial and catholic Church. Hence I say. 1. With submission to the learned. First, It is an hard way of arguing, to reason from the power to the several exercises and divers acts of the power. Our Brethren hold that all power of the Keys, and all power Ministerial of preaching, administrating the Seals, is originally in caetu sidelium, in a Church of Believers: but they cannot say that therefore the acts of Preaching, administrating of the Sacraments and all acts of jurisdiction can be exercised by the Believers, because they are the first subject. Secondly, the farther that the members, or Churches either congregational, Presbyterial, or national are removed in local distance, one from another; the less is the visible and external communion of rebuking, comforting, and admonishing one another; yet the power and obligation of these duties are not removed. So though the national Churches be locally distant one from another, yet their power of exercising duties, and so their power of Jurisdiction, in an O●cumenicke Council, is not from thence concluded to be null. Yea, national duties upon occasion are still obligatory● and communion of men of sundry Nations is clear to me, Esai. 2. 3. many Nations shall flow unto the Mountain of the Lords House, Zach. 8. 23. Ten men shall take hold out of all Languages of the Nations, they even shall take hold of the skirt of him that is a Jew, saying, we will go with you, for we have heard that God is with you. I do not say, these Nations do meet all in one Synod, but the places do well prove the power lawful of performing duties, whereas the exercise of them in one place is not hic & nunc, in ordinary providence, possible. And so this consequence must be weak; the whole catholic visible Churches in their principal guides cannot ordinarily, and constantly meet, hic & nunc, for the exercise of their power; Ergo, they have no such power. For if the power be exercised in parts, which through occurrences of Providence, and the corruption of men's nature cannot be exercised in whole, at once; yet it's not hence evinced to be a power not given of Christ for edification; for by our brethren's grant three thousand are added to the congregational Church of Jerusalem, Acts 2. and to this Church of three thousand, and a hundred and twenty, Christ hath given the ordinary power of the Keys as to the first subject, though through occurences of providence, and the corruption of man's nature, some of these, suppose a thousand, through sickness, pest, danger of persecution, and sinful separating from the assembly of Saints, could not hic & nunc meet in one house, to exercise jointly all the acts of that power which our Brethren say is given to them by Christ; they cannot say therefore Christ never gave to this whole Church consisting of three thousand and a hundred and twenty, any such power. Thirdly, there is a great difference betwixt the power given ad esse simplictèr, to the being of a Church, and the power given ad benè esse tantùm, only to the well-being. 2. Great difference also there is betwixt ordinary power to be exercised constantly, and ordinarily, because of nearer consociation of the Churches, in those things that concern that Church in particular: suppose a presbyterial or congregational Church, and a power to be exercised, but more rarely, not ordinarily, because of the less communion visible, and great local distance of Churches, as it falleth out in the whole visible Church. Now from this. First, The ordinary power of Jurisdiction because of nearest vicinity, and contiguity of members is given by Jesus Christ to one Congregation in an Isle. 1. Because that Church is a Church properly so called, though it be not a perfect and complete Church. I say it is a Church properly so called, Because. 1. It is a little City, and a little Kingdom of Jesus Christ having within itself power of the Word and Sacraments: and that is a Church and hath the essence of a Church to which agree the essential notes of a visible Church. Now preaching of the Word and Administration of the Sacraments are essential notes of a visible Church. But I say it is not a complete and perfect Church in the latitude of visibility, (for Churches, are less or more visible, according as they have less or more visible communion) for visible communion constituteth a visible Church. Now a Congregation in a remote Island hath a less communion visible with other visible Churches, then conscciated visible Churches have. 2. It is not complete and perfect in its operations, because in case of doubts of conscience touching government and practice, and dogmatic points, it wants the joint authority, and power of Jurisdiction needful for the well-being of a Church, which it should have, if it were consociated with many other Congregations: so as we say an hand with five fingers is a complete hand, but it is not a complete organical body, but a part of the organical body of a man; so is a Congregation a Church wanting nothing of the being and essence of a Church; yet is it incompleate, because it is a part or member of a Presbyterial Church, and not being consociated wanteth that which belongeth to the well being of a complete visible Church. For visibility of a Church must have a latitude, because it is an accident or adjunct of an organical politic body, which is totum integrale. Secondly, the ordinary power of ordinary Jurisdiction in a more perfect way, because of ordinary and perfiter consociation, is given to the Presbyterial Church, as to the proper subject in the constant and ordinary exercise of Discipline, because contignity being the foundation of visible external government, the Presbyteriell Church of jerusalem, Ephesus Corinth, Antioch, and Rome, is a perfect complete consocia●d body. To which the power of ordination, exauthoration, or deprivation of Pastors, of excommunication in a constant and ordinary way doth belong. For this is a principle of Church-policy. Every politic body of Christ hath power of Church government within itself. But a Presbyterial church is such. 2. This is a received maxim also. Quod tangit omnes. ab omnibus, suo more, tractari debet. What concerneth all, should be agitated by all, according to their degrees of concernment, but excom nunication of a person, in a consociated Church, concerneth all the consociated Churches in a Presbytery; all are scandalised, all may be, and are in danger to be leavened with the infectious lump. And here it is to be observed, that as preaching of the Word is an essential note of the visible Church, and agreeing to the visible Church, as necessary ad esse simpliciter, to the very being of a visible Church. For if the word as Preached and some way promulgated be not in such a society, we cannot call it a visible Church; so Discipline is a note of the visible Church, and necessary ad bene esse, and it cannot be a Ministerial Church in a good condition exercising acts of edification, if the wall of Discipline be broken down: and meeting in one place for Word and Sacraments is but accidental for a Ministerial Church. If the Word be preached, and the Sacraments administrated in sundry Congregations, though not in a Presbyterial Church all convened in all its members in one place, yet hath the Presbyterial Church the essential note of a visible Church. Because there is a difference betwixt carrying the colours in an Army tali modo, as all the Army at once may see the colours, and the carrying of the colours. Yet the colours are a note visible of such an Army: so there is a difference betwixt preaching the Word, simpliciter, and preaching the Word, tali modo; in such a way in one material house only. And therefore it is necessary that government which concerneth many Churches consociated, be in its exercise hic & nunc, larger than preaching of the Word in its exercise, hic & nunc: which cannot be done, but to a multitude which conveneth 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, to the same material place. And we see an act of government, Acts 15. by confession of our Brethren, belonging to divers consociated Churches and performed by them, and yet these cannot ordinarily meet to one and the same place in all their members for hearing of the Word. Thirdly, an extraordinary, and remote power of Jurisdiction which is but rarely and in extraordinary cases to be put forth in acts, is given to the Catholic visible Presbytery of the whole Catholic visible Church. Because the Oommunion external and visible is less, where the local distance of visible Churches is more: and therefore because ecumenical counsels, being necessary for the Catholic visible Church, neque ad esse simpliciter, neque ad b●●è esse, sed ad melius seu optimum esse, neither in respect of the Churches being, nor in respect of the Church's well-being, ●u● only in respect of her best and most spiritual well-being, these counsels are seldom to be had in an ordinary providence. For the Cress of jesus Christ is rather a mark of the catholic visible Church, than Bellarmine his prosperous condition, that he will have to be one of his fifteen notes of the Church: and since the Church cannot have her wishes, the want of general counsels is the Catholic Churches Cross, not her sin; we do not say that God is deficient in means necessary to his Church, or to some of his own Children; because the Woman hath wings given her of God to sty to the Wilderness to hide herself from the Dragon, Rev. 12. 14. and so cannot enjoy Gods ordinary presence, in his Sanctuary. Nor do we say that God hath denied a power to his Church in the Wilderness, to enjoy them in a visible Sanctuary, I mean a moral power, and jus, a right and interest in that presence, because he interrupteth the Church's physical power, for a while, in the enjoying of these comforts of a visible Church-Communion, in the Sanctuary. Fourthly, hence it doth not follow, that because the catholic representative visible Church is the first subject of the power of the Keys, that the power of Excommunication is derived from the visible Church to a Presbyterial Church, or that a Presbyterial Church cannot excommunicate without consulting with, or fetching authority from the Catholic visible Church: Because the Catholic visible Church is a great integral body of jesus Christ, and he is the head of this body; because though the power of seeing by order of nature be first in the whole man, and then in the Eye, yet the power of seeing in the Eye is not derived from the rest of the body, from Hands, Legs, Shoulders, Arms, to the Eye. The light is first in the whole Body of the Sun, as the first and prime subject of light; yet supposing now the received opinion of Astronomers, that the body of the Sun doth exceed the quantity of the Earth an hundred sixty and seven times, it doth not follow that this or that part of the Sun hath no light intrinsecall in it; but that which is derived from the whole body of the Sun; for then this or this part of the Sun should have borrowed light derived to it from another: so the Soul doth at one and the same instant, animate, and quicken the whole organised Body as its first matter and subject, but it doth not follow that the Hand hath life derived to it from the whole body: so because the power of the Keys is also intrinsecall in the Presbytery, as in an Ecumenical council: it doth not follow, that the power that is intrinsecall in the presbytery is by derivation, or borrowed and at the second hand, from the Catholic presbytery of the whole World; far less that the Presbytery cannot Excommunicate, except it consult with the catholic visible Church. The power of the Keys, by order of nature, is only in the catholic representative Church as in the first subject, but in order of time this power is communicated from the head Christ to all the integral parts of this great Body according to the capacity of every part, so as it is intrinsecall in the particular Eldership of a single Congregation in these points of Discipline, that concern a Congregation as a Congregation, and it is intrinsecall in the classical Presbytery as it is such, and it is intrinsecall in the provincial, and national Synod, in points belonging to them as such. 3. They object; if a single Congregation have not power of Excommunication, and of entire and complete government within itself, because it is but a part of a Presbyterial Church, and so an incomplete Church: by that same reason a Presbyterial Church shall be a complete Church, and not have entire and complete power of Government within itself; because a presbyterial Church is a part of a provincial Church, and a provincial Church shall be in the same case, because it is a part of a national Church, and a national Church, in that same case; because it is a part of the catholic visible Church, and there shall be no perfect visible Church on Earth, which hath full and entire power of jurisdiction, save only the caholicke visible Church, which by no possibility can convene, before her Oecunenick and highest catholic Court, a national Church, or the Church of great Britain, and upon the testimony of three witnesses deliver her to Satan, and upon supposal of Repentance receive her again to the catholic power of that same Court; into fellowship of Church-union with the great catholic body. For so because this catholic Church, for many centuries, yea possibly for a million of years, cannot convene to exercise her authority in a Court (and out of her Court she hath none) the repenting national Church, shall remain in Satan's bands for ever, by a physical and invincible necessity. Answ. A single Congregation is a Church, but so as it is a part also and a member of a Presbyterial Church, and because of nearness of communion with consociated Churches under one Presbytery; it can neither have complete power of casting out one of its own members, because that member hath so strict a visible Union of membership also with consociated Churches, nor can it exercise that intrinsical power that it hath as a remote part of Christ's Catholic body, but the case for ordinary and constant power of ordinary and constant Jurisdiction is not so in a Presbyterial, in a provincial, in a national, in the Catholic visible Body. And therefore it followeth not that they are not complete Bodies, and entire Churches for all ordinary and constant Jurisdiction; and the reason is clear, because Synods or Synodical Churches above a Presbytery to me are not ordinary; not constant Courts, but extraordinary, and prore nata occasional, having their rise from some occurrence of providence, as is most clear, by Scripture. The Church of Ephesus being a Presbyterial Church, did constantly exercise Discipline, and try false Prophets, and those which called themselves jews, but were lieus, Revel. 2. 2. Whereas that famous Council at jerusalem was not an ordinary and constant Court, but extraordinary, that is, occasional (for so I take the Word, for expressions cause) and had its rise, Acts 15. 1. from a mere occasion, because some came from judea and taught the Brethren, except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, you cannot be saved, And the subject of this Court was not the constant and ordinary affairs of Discipline, that belonged to the presbytery of jerusalem, and Antioch. No, v. 6. the subject was only an incident controversy raised by false teachers, subverters of souls, v. 24. and therefore it is said, v. 6. The Apostles and Elders, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, to consider of this matter; therefore the presbyterial Church hath both Word and Sacraments dispensed in it distributively through all the Churches, and for the power of Jurisdiction ordinary intensiuè, and quoad essentiam Ecclesiae ministerialis, according to the entire essence of a ministerial Church, it is as perfect and complete in one single Congregation, as in a provincial, as in a national, yea as in the Catholic visible Body, whereof Christ is the Head; only a provincial, national, and the Catholic Church visible, extensiuè, according to the power of extension, is a larger and a superior Church, and though the presbyterial Church be a part of the Catholic, it is so a part, as it is a perfect whole Church: as a man is a part of this great all, the World, yet so, as he is a perfect reasonable Creature, and so a whole man, and a part of the World: but a Congregation is so a part of the Presbytery, that it hath not a whole, entire, complete intensive power over its own members to excommunicate them, because its members are for contiguity and necessity of near visible communion, parts that cannot avoid daily edifying or scandalising of consociated Churches, and therefore the consociated churches trust have a power over the members of a Congregation. But our Brethren will say; Contiguity of local cohabitation doth not in be a visible Church, but only the voluntary agreement of Professors who do, ex pacto, and by covenant tacit or express, make up a conseciation: for a Papist and a Protestant may cohabit in one house. Answ. That is true, but contiguity is such a necessary foundation of external visible Church fellowship in one presbytery, as without that contiguity, I see not how, jure Divino, there can be either a congregational Church, or any other Church: for, sure I am, Christ hath not ordained me to be a member of a Congregation in America, or of a presbyterial Church in Geneva. And that such persons and no more be members of a Congregation, is not juris Divini, yet without a contiguity less or more they cannot be members of a Congregation, nor is this single Congregation a limb of this presbyterial Church, jure Divin●; only this in abstracto is jus Divinum, that there be a Congregation of a convenient number, and a presbytery of such as may meet conveniently in their guides. But to return, the Brethren do deny that God gave a power of Jurisdiction to the Catholic visible Court of the O●cumenick Church. And why? because a general council cannot excommunicate, nor relax from Excommunication a national Church, But I answer, 1. It is by accident, and not through want of innate and intrinsical power, that the Court of a Catholic council cannot in an ordinary and constant way, exercise the power that Christ hath given to her, as the presbyterial church doth; and the exigence of providence maketh it so, because it falleth out by the blessing of God, that Zion must say, as it is, Esai. 49. 20. The place is too straight for me, give place to me that I may dwell. And because she enlargeth the place of her Tent, and stretcheth forth the curtains of her habitation, and lengtheneth her cords, and breaketh forth on the right hand, and on the left, and her seed inheriteth the Gentiles, Esai. 54. 2 3. and because from the rising of the Sun, to the going d●●ne thereof, his Name is great amongst the Gentiles, and in every place incense is offered to him, Mal. 1. 11. yet have general counsels condemned Heretics, as Nestorians, Macedonians, Eutyches and others; and I see nothing to prove that a general council hath no power to excommunicate a national Church. If the Lord should be pleased to give the Christian Churches a general council this day, they might lawfully, in a juridical way, declare the faction of Romish pretended catholics, to be mystical Babylon, a cage of unclean Birds, which is excommunication in the essence and substance of the Act; nor is there need of a legal and juridical citation of national Churches, or a citation of witnesses to prove Romish Heresies, and perfidious and detestable obstinacy: for their writings, and deeds, are so notorious, that the senses of men may as infallibly prove the fact, as we know there is such a City in the world as Rome, and C●n●tantinople; as for the instance that a catholic council cannot ordinarily be had, to relax a repenting national Church: I answer, the same inconvenience will follow, if we suppose an ordinary case, the Church congregational (as our Brethren suppose) of jerusalem, Acts. 2. consisting of three thousand and a hundred and twenty, having excommunicated Ananias, Saphira, and others, who yet by the grace of God, should truly repent; in the mean time, the Sword of the Roman Emperor intervening scattereth this Church, that they cannot convene in a spiritual Court, to relax them (and out of Court they have no authority of Jurisdiction) here were an invincible necessity of their remaining in Satansbonds, in foro externo ecclesiae. But what then? This is to limit God, as Papists do in binding and tying salvation of Infants to the outward sign of external baptism; as if God, in soro caeli, in his own Court could not absolve penitent sinners, because the Church will not, which is more ordinary, through men's corruption, or cannot absolve, through the necessity of exigence of divine providence: and the more catholic that crosses be, as war●, the universal and catholic cruelty, and treachery of the church of Malignants against the true catholic Church of Christ, the more easily are the Juridical and Court-operations, actions and proceedings of the catholic universal Church impedited. And therefore this of our Saviour's, tell the Church, is necessarily to be applied to all Churches and Courts of Christ, even to a catholic council, though Christ gave instances in an offended Brother, who is to tell the Church, But I am sure, (tell the church) is not to be restricted to a vocal & personal complaining of one brother against another, in the face of a single Congregation. For if the offence be committed before the Sun at noonday in the seeing and hearing of the church, either congregational, or presbyterial, as some may, and one do by word and writ openly blaspheme God: in this case Christ's affirmative command, tell the church, doth not in conscience oblige one man to come and deal with the delinquent in private, and then (if he repent not) before witnesses, & then to tell the church, so as one sinneth if he tell not the church; for here God's providence disposing of the notoriousness and publicknes of the scandal doth tell the church; and yet, I hope, our Brethren could not deny, but this Text doth w●●●● that such a public offender who scandalizeth many Churches should be excommunicated by this place, Mat. 18. from which I gather the weakness of what is said for the independency of churches from, Mat. 18. Ob. 1. Here we cannot understand the Church universal. 1. Because he would not say where two or three are gathered in my Name, I will be in the midst of them, for two or three cannot represent all the Churches comprehended under the catholic visible Body of Jesus Christ. Ans. This is an argument from the less to the more. If I be present (would our Saviour say) where two or three, though they be but two or three: I will far rather be present in the assemblies of the Church. Nor can the words stand according to the letter strictly, according to our brethren's mind, that two should be a Church; for there should be Pastors and Elders, and Christian witnesses, two at least, and the accused Brother here. 2. two or three, and brother and brother are not to be taken as singular men only, but as two or thee men, or Churches, who as they Abulensis ●u loc. etiam si non si●t 〈◊〉. may be offended. 1 Cor. 10 32. so may they give scandal and offence; so may three, four, of consociated Congregations give the offence, and that publicly; what? hath Christ provided no remedy against scandals in his whole Kingdom, but only for scandals fallen out in the single persons of a small Congregation consisting of ten, 20 100 or 200. only when these little congregations offend sister Congregations, they are left to the immediate judgement of God? This is wonderful. Ob. 2. The christian magistrate as a nursing father is to punish those who offend, and hath power to command Churches to confess offences done to sister Churches, and command Church censures, as excommunication, to be used, and Christ's power to be put forth in practice, according to the will of Jesus Christ. Answ. Yet doth it follow that the Apostolic Churches, & the succeeding Churches to them under the ten bloody persecutions, when Magistrates were enemies to Christ, and his church, that the Churches wanted spiritual means to gain fallen and scandalous churches. 2. Christ hath provided an Ecclesiastical power to remove scandals betwixt church and church; for the Magistrate's power is civil and put forth by the Sword, and by carnal weapons. Christ's 〈◊〉 in this, Mat. 18. 19 s to remove scandals, and gain soles v. 15 for hear thee, thou o●st gained thy broth. The Sword of the Magistrate is not ordained to gain souls to Repentance. That 〈◊〉 who careth for the part of a visible church, doth he not far rather care in a spiritual way, for the whole? 3. What can the Magistrate command here? the Eldership of a Congregation turn●● Heretics and scandalous to sister Churches and infecteth then. To● Magistrate commadeth that Church censures be used 〈◊〉 them as you say, who should use them? not a sister Church 〈◊〉 is offended. She hath no power; not the Eldership themselves offending. Christ never ordained that a church should excommunicate herself; not the people; Who gave them power? And the major part of them turneth scandalous. Also Christ ne'er hath left n●re ne●y. but let them grow till Harvest, so say A●abaptists. Ob. 3. Christ here speaketh for a present and constant removing of scanned 〈◊〉 Brother and Brother of one congregation. A cathalick 〈◊〉 of the whole visible Church is far off, ●nd cannot be 〈◊〉. Answ. That he speaketh of a present and constant remedy only, and of no remedy against the scandal of whole Churches, is de●ed. He speaketh of all remedies to gain any offenders, persons or churches. Ob. 4. Then should an universal council of the whole world be absolutely necessary, if in some cases we must tell the whole catholickchurch Ans. Neither doth that follow general counsels are neither necessary to the being, nor to the well-being, but only to the best being of the catholic church, and if the catholic church enjoyed its best-being to which it hath jus, and due right, that is, a perfect Reformation in doctrine and discipline, then should general council be necessary for the keeping of this best being. And this rule of Discipline given by Christ supposeth a particular Congregation right constituted (say our Brethren) else this rule cannot be necessarily kept. So say we, that it may necessarily be kept in the catholic church, it supposeth the catholic church to be reform; but Christ's church must sail with a second wind, when she cannot have a first. Ob. 5. Refusing communion with sister Churches in case of scandal is as effectual a way for edification, as authoritative excommunication of congregations by Presbyteries. Answ. Excommunication of Congregations is a possible, not an ordinary supposition; but our grounds proceed, when the members of one sister-church offendeth another, if there be no presbyterial power superior to both, that may take order with them, than hath not Christ, in the ordinary supposition of ill administration of the Eldership of a particular Congregation, provided an ecclesiastic way to remove scandals out of His Kingdom. 2. non-communion is no more than I may do to a brother who offendeth me. 2. it is not so efficacious as a binding and losing ratified in Heaven. 3. It hath not that special promise of Christ's church presence walking in the midst of the Golden candle-sticks. 4. It is a secret condemning of the Wisdom of Christ in the institution of excommunication, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord, 1 Cor. 5. 4. that some may learn not to blaspheme, 1 Tim. 1. 20. as if excommunication which is a public authoritative means were superfluous, if a private and brotherly non-communion be sufficient, and as efficacious a mean of edification, as Christ's mean. Ob. 6. Either must you complain to a presbyterial, provincial, and national Church, before you complain to that congregation of which the ' Delinquent is a member, or after that you have complained to that congregation; if the former be said, than you cannot tell the presbytery, or superior Courts, but in case of obstinacy; for if you can gain a Brother, or a Church in a private way, you are not to bring him to a more publickeshame, that is contrary to Christ's order, v. 15. If he hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother. And if you tell it the Presbytery and the superior Courts, after you have told it to the Church, whereof he is a member, than you make four steps, in your reclaiming your brother, where Christ hath made but three. Ans. Christ's order according to the number of steps are three, when the fault is private, scandals of many Congregations cannot be private, and in public scandals we cannot go but to that church which the offence doth immediately concern; and if you make four steps or five according to your grounds, I see no transgression; if 1. You admonish the offender. 2. Before two. 3. Before the half of the Elders. 4. Before all the Elders, and. 5. If you be willing that the Elders bring it to the hearing of the Congregation the number of three precisely are not of positive Divine institution, they are only set down by Christ to show we are to labour to gain our brother in private, before we publish his shame to the Church; and if he commit the offence before two, I think you need not tell him yourself alone, but before two, and yet the offence is private, if three only be privy to it; seeing it is not yet come to the Church. 3. I much doubt if no faults be punishable by excommunication, but only obstinacy: I think the 〈◊〉 of incest, parricide and the like deserveth excommunication, though no contumacy be supervenient to such crimes. Ob. 7. The Church spoken of, Mat. 18. is all one with the House of God, and the House of Prayer, where two or three agree to pray for onething. v. 19 and the place where worshipping is, and word and Sacraments, that society in which stewards give a portion of the trea●● of life to every child of the House, Mat. 24. 45, 1 Cor. 4. 1. 2. 〈◊〉 public Rebukes are tendered to these who sin publicly, before all, that others may fear, 1 Tim. 5. 20. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉: this must be in the Churches hearing and before the Congregation meet for the Word and Sacraments, for these ordinances of God work for the edifying both of the party reproved and before all the Congregation, which shall hear and fear; and they work upon the Heart, as the Word of God doth: now a presbyterial Church convened in some Elders of divers Congregations, for Church censures and exercise of jurisdiction, is not such a House of God, where are the Word, Sacraments and public rebukes in the hearing of the Congregation; for the Congregations of all the presbytery being 20. or 30. cannot meet in one Church. Answ. That only a Congregation and not the catholic Church is the House of God, I judge, the Word of God cannot teach; as Esai. 56. 5. To them will I give a name within my House. What a name? to be a member of a single Congregation? No, but of a whole visible Church, opposed to the condition of Eunuches and strangers, v. 4. that were not of the people of God. Cant. 1. 17 Ainsworth an. in can. 3. Cotton expo. on Cant. 3. 4. Alst. in loc. quod ●rat veluti conclave Ecclesi● Catholicae. The beams of our House are cedars, this is the catholic Church and Spouse of Christ, Cant. 3 4. I would not let Him go, till I brought Him to my Mother's House, not a Congregation, but jerusalem, (saith Ainsworth) the Mother of us all, Cotton, the Catholic Church; Alstedius, jerusalem, Heb. 3. 2. as Moses was faithful in all his House. Not a single congregation. 2. This Church here is formally a Ministerial Church meeting to bind and lose, and excommunicate. Nor is there need to expound it of an House of praying congregationally, but rather 2. 19 of ligatory and authoritative prayers of the Presbytery. 3. Nor is rebuking in a Congregation for the edifying of the hearers, any thing but the execution of the judicial sentence of a Presbyterial Church, which we grant may be done in the congregation, whereof the Delinquent is a member, and yet the Church here shall not signify a congregation convened for the Word and Sacraments, except you say, all the people must necessarily be present, yea and authoritative actors to bind and lose, as this Church is expressly called, v. 18. for if the place speak, 1 Tim. 5. 20. of concional rebuking; than it proveth nothing, that is done by Timothy as a Pastor, virtute potest at is ordinis, and not by the Presbytery, as an act of jurisdiction which is done by the Church, not by one man, if it be meant of juridical rebuking that is done in a Court, where all the congregation are not present; or if it be done before the congregation in Name of the Presbytery, what is done before the Church 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 before many is not done by those many, as if they were the Church, which our Saviour biddeth us tell, and sure nothing i● here against us. Ob. 8. The Word Church is never used in the New Testament, for the Presbytery; and if it signify a Representative Church; the meaning of this, the Angel of the Church of Pergamus might be the Angel of the Church of Pergamus; for the Representative Church is the Eldership of that Church. Answ. This being the first time that Christ spoke of the Church (which the Hebrews or jews who knew his language, behoved to understand) he could not mean any thing but a representative Church, not the common multitude; and though it were taken other ways in all Scriptures beside, here it must have this meaning; because he speakth of a court. If he heart not the Church &c, 2 Of a company who bindeth and looseth on Earth. 3. Whose sentence is ratified in Heaven. 4. Binding and losing are words of highest royal judicial authority in Scripture, Psal. 105. 20. The King sent and loosed him. 21. He made him Lord over his House, v. 22. to bind his Princes at his pleasure, Psal. 148. 8. To bind their Kings with chains, and their Nobles with fetters of Iron. v. 9 To execute upon them the judgement written, Mat. 22. 13. Take him and bind him; Paul's being in bands, is to be under the Judge's power, Acts 12 6. Peter was bound with two chains; So the Captain of the Guard, J●r. 40. 4. and now be hold I lose thee this day from thy chains. 2. The representative Church is not called the Elders of the representative Church, nor the Angel of the representative Church, but of the collective Church: and therefore there is no Angel of a Church, of a Church here. Ob. 9 From the Church here spoken of, their is no appeal, because the sentence is ratified in Heaven. 2. It inflicteth the highest punishment, the censure of excommunication, and a higher judicature can do no more. 3. Their is no reason to appeal to a higher judicature, because the inferior may err, because all above a Congregation are Courts which may err: for Presbyteries, Provincial, national, the universal council of the Catholic Church may err. So Mr. Mather. Answ. This is no reason why we may not appeal from a M. Mather and Mr. Tom●on in Ans. to Mr. He●le. c. 2. p. 13. 14. Congregation, because the sentence is ratified in Heaven, because the sentence of an inferior Judge proceeding rightly is ratified in Heaven; yet we may appeal from him: to appeal is but upon fears of ill administration to desert a lower Court, and go to a higher Court, so when we fear a counsel and advice given by a sister Church to be not according to the Word of God, which yet is according to the Word of God, upon the supposal of that fear we decline that counsel, and take another. Neither are we to appeal, de jure, from a just sentence in a presbytery. Illud possumus quod jure possumus. What the inferior Sanedrim of Israel did justly, was ratified in Heaven: yet by God's Law there might be an appeal from it to the highest Sanedrim. 2. Nor is this a good reason that we may not appeal from a Judicature which may inflict the highest censure; for inferior Judicatures in Israel had power of life and death, yet might man appeal from them. 3. The cause of appeals is not because inferior Judicatures may err, for so we might appeal from all judicatures, even from a general council, for it may err. But the true cause is. 1. Because rariùs errand, they do not so frequently err. 2. They are not so inclined and disposed to err, for many Eyes see more than one, and many Eyes do more seldom miscarry in not taking up the right object then one. 3. Because we conceive more equality and less partiality in higher Courts. Ob. 10. You grant that a single Congregation in an Island hath power intrinsecall of Excommunication within itself; Ergo, th● inconvenient which you put on independent Congregations, shall follow in the case of a remote congregation, Christ hath not then provided sufficiently for that Church in that case. Answ. It followeth only; Ergo, Christ hath not provided so sufficiently for that Church as for others in a consociation, which is nothing against us. For woe to him that is alone, and two are better than one. Ob. 11. If the Church here be a representative Church, the● it hath power from those whom they represent, but they represent the people, and so the power is first in the people, and the people must be the first visible Church, not the presbytery, not a general council. I prove the major, because the power the representer hath that must be first in the represented. Answ. A representer standeth for another either objectively or subjectively. What ever representeth another objectively, that is, doth such a business for another, or in remejus, for his behalf and good, though he some way represent that other, yet hath he not his power from that which he representeth; as the Eye objectively in seeing, and the Ear in hearing representeth the body, for the Eye seeth for the whole body, the Ear heareth for the whole body. But the eye hath not its visi●e, or seeing faculty from the body, nor the Ear the hearing faculty from the body. Now the Presbytery doth represent the people only objectively, that is, for the good and salvation of the people, and so the Elders have not all their power of ruling from the people, but from jesus Christ. That which representeth another subjectively hath indeed its power from that which it representeth, as he who carrieth the person and room of a King as an Ambassador, doth fetch his power from the King, and that power is more principally in the King. But now the Assumption is false, because the Eldership doth not represent the people, in their power of Jurisdiction, subjectively, as standing in the place of the people, but as the Ambassadors of Christ, and as stewards they have both the Keys from Christ, not from the people, and do actually use the Keys, in his Name and authority, not in the people's name and authority. Hence is easily answered that Delegatus seu deputatus non potest facere delegatum; one delegate cannot transfer his power to another delegate, that would bring a progress infinite in government; for one deligate standing in the room of others, sibjectively cannot transfer his whole power to another, its true; he cannot transfer his power in part and according to some singular acts, it is false: for Acts 15. 25. It is said by the council, It seemed good unto us with one accord, to send chosen men to you, with Paul and Silar. Paul and Silas and these chosen men, suppose six or ten are in this Embassage, are but the deputies and Messengers of the council, and yet they do agree to make Paul their deputy, and mouth to speak for them all, seeing order requireth that six at once should not speak, in this case Paul speaking the mind of all the rest, in this singular act, he is a deputy of Deputies, and he representeth the whole six, who were Messengers of the Church sent with the Epistle, and these six were Deputies and Messengers of the council, but as these six Messengers sent by the council could not lay their whole power on another to carry the Epistle to the Church of Antioch, and bestow their labours elsewhere, nor could one of these six deligates, being chosen as deligate to speak for the rest, put that power of speaking the mind of the whole six off himself to another; in which sense, one deligate cannot make another, one Messenger cannot send another; so the Presbyterial or classical Court convened as the deligates of the whole Congregations under them, or rather deligates for them, then of them, decerning that one of a Congregation should be excommunicated, may deligate one in that Congregation to pronounce the sentence, and this one pronouncing the sentence as the deligate, and Messenger of the Church is a deligate & a deputy of deligates, and deputies, in one particular act; and this our Brethren in their own Church-sentences pronounced by one Elder, must also say. Object. 12. That nearest Church to whom we delate the offence of one single offender, is a single Congregation, else we must overleap this Church, and tell the Presbytery, contrary to Christ's direction; but if he hear not that very Church to whom we tell the business, he is excommunicated by that nearest Church, as the words bear; Ergo, that nearest Church being single congregations, may excommunicate, and so it is the first Church, and the Presbyterial Church is not the first Church. Ans. That nearest Church to whom we delate the offence of the delinquent; first, in the case of wilful obstinacy; secondly, in the case of consociation of Churches (whom the obstinacy concerneth) is not a congregational Church, having power of Jurisdiction entirely and completely, to whom we must tell the offence, which is the subject of excommuncation. The whole ministerial Church is that particular Church, together with the Presbytery; and my reason is, there is a Church, Acts 2. consisting of one and thirty hundred and twenty, all called one Church. Now it is said of this Church that they continued, vers. 42. steadfastly in the Apostles doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and prayer; but where did they meet? vers. 46. not only in the Temple, but daily from house to house. This whole number hath had v. 42. one Church-fellowship, one Word, one Supper of the Lord; but in one meeting at once? No, but they met from house to house, that is, in any private house, as the phrase is here, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, and Acts 20. 20. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. Now it is clear there were Congregations and Churches, when Word and Sacraments were in private houses at Jerusalem, and from house to house in Ephesus; but I hope these were but parts of the Church at jerusalem and Ephesus, and that they could not meet all in one house. If one therefore complain of a scandalous person to the Church of Ephesus convened in a house, possibly in an upper Chamber, or elsewhere, this is a meeting that continueth in prayer and breaking of bread, and so hath power of Church-censures to admonish and rebuke, which things belong to that single Congregation or Church in a private house; but it hath not power to censure those that offend the consociated Congregations that meet also 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, in houses, that is, to excommunicate; and therefore he must complain to the Elders of Ephesus, ●o● we are not to think that the false Jew's who were censured by the Apostles of Ephesus, Rev●●. 2. 2. did only infest houses, or one Congregation meet in a house, or that one House-Church, or House-Congregation of Ephesus, did try and censure those that called themselves jews, Revel. 2, 2 but Christ giveth the praise of this to the whole Church of Ephesus, who had the power of censures. But it may be said, Ascandalous person may infect two Congregations of two neighbouring Presbyteries, he dwelling near the borders of both: Ergo, if he be to be excommunicated, not by a Congregation only, but by the Presbytery, because ●e may leaven many consociated Churches; this man is not to be excommunicated, except you tell two Presbyterial Churches, and so a whole Province; and if he dwell in the borders of two Nations, betwixt England & Scotland, he may leaven two parts of two national Churches; and if the matter concerneth both the national Churches, a higher Church than a Presbytery, to wit a Church made up of two Presbyteries, yea, of parts of two Presbyteries of two Nations, must by divine institution be that Church complete and entire to which we must complain, and which hath the power of excommunication. Answ. It is certain, as the local limits of a Congregation and the number is not properly of divine institution, only a convenient number there must be to make up a Congregation; and suppose a man do dwell in the borders of two Congregations, where he is equally distant from the place of meeting of these two Congregations, it is not of divine institution whether he be a member of the one or the other; yet where his parents did willingly associate themselves to such a Congregation, or he himself did associate himself, and where he received Baptism, he hath now a relation to that Church as a member thereof, and that Pastor is his Pastor, not any other, as the Elders of the Church of Ephesus (suppose it were one single Congregation) and the Angel of Ephesus is not the Angel of Thyatira; the Angel of Pergamus is not to be called the Angel of Sard●s. So i● the matter in a Presbytery, or two Presbyteries of two distinct Nations (I mean now a classical Presbytery) therefore these do make Presbyteries, 1. A convenient number of Churches may be governed by one College, or society of Elders. 2. Having ordinary conversing one with another. 3. Voluntarily upon these two grounds combining themselves in one society; and upon these three the supervenient institution of Christ is grounded. And therefore though it be true, that one dwelling in the borders of two Congregations, of two classical Presbyteries of two Nations, may equally infect other, and so ex natura rei, and in reality of truth he may leaven both; yet the God of order having made him a combined member now by institution of one Presbyterial Church, not of the other, he is to be excommunicated by the one, not by the other: For though local distinction of Congregations and Presbyteries be not of divine institution; yet supposing consideration be had to, first, a competent number which may be edified; secondly, to ordinary conversing; thirdly, to voluntary combination, either formal, as at the first moulding of Congregations and Presbyteries, or tacit and virtual combination, as in after tracts of time. God's institution maketh a relation of a particular membership of this man, so to this Congregation or Presbytery; as that now upon their foresaid suppositions, though he may leaven the neighbouring Presbyteries or Congregations, no less than those whereof he is a member, yet may he be censured by those and none others now, in respect of Christ's ordinance applied to this Presbyterial Church in this place, and in this Nation, and not in this. Object. 13. If the Congregation may admonish and rebuke, then may they excommunicate, for you may not distinguish where the Law of God distinguisheth not: for there is no reason why this or this exercise of jurisdiction should be given them, and not the exercise of all. Answ. The Law clearly differenceth, Matth. 18. I may rebuke and convince my brother with the consent of three witnesses, which is some degree of Church-censure, especially if a Pastor rebuke before three, yet may not a Pastor excommunicate; the Church doth that. 2. We acknowledge that a Congregation may exercise all jurisdiction in re propria; but excommunication, where Churches are consociated, is not a thing that is proper to a Congregation, but concerneth many. Obj. 14. We do not think that the Church, Math. 18. 16. is the community its alone, nor the Elders there alone; but the Elders in presence of the community. For even Act. 15. when the Apostles and Elders did give out decrees, they did it before the Church of jerusalem, and in their presence, V. 22. Then pleased it the Apostles, Elders, and whole Church, to send chosen men to Antioch. For show us a warrant in the Word, where the Elders there alone did exercise jurisdiction, the people not being convened, and where such a company of Elders there alone is called a Church. The judges in Israel judged in the gates before the people; the Elders judged in, or, before the Church, as the eye seeth united to the head, not separated from it. Answ. Nor do we exclude these from hearing the Elders exercise jurisdiction, if the matter concern them; but we ask if the whole people of Israel were obliged by virtue of Divine Institution to be present in the gates of the City when the Judges did sit there, and judge, as our brethren therein say; by a Divine Institution the people are to be present, and to consent; yea and have an honour above consenting, (say they) so as, if the people be not there to have their share of excommunication in their way, then is Christ's order violated, because the Church cannot be said to excommunicate and bind and lose on Earth; whereas the Elders only, without the people, do only bind and lose, and excommunicate; and the Elders (say they) without the people are not the Church, nor can be called the Church, and so the acts of the Elders, judging, and separated from the people are null, because not acts of the Church; seeing the alone Elders are not the Church; & by this reason the Judges could not judge in Israel, except all Israel had been present to consent, for all Israel are bidden to execute judgement in the morning, both the Rulers and people. 2. All the thousands in jerusalem which made up many Congregations, Isa. 1. 10. 16, 17 were not, nor could they, and the whole Congreations of A●tioch, Syria, and Silicia, who were all concerned in conscience no less than jerusalem, be present, and that by obligation of a Divine Institution: and therefore that Church, and that whole Church, Act. 15. 22. can be no other than the whole representative Church. And so we say, both here and Act. 15. the Church representative exerciseth jurisdiction without the people; if people were present, it was by virtue of no Divine Institution: so as if they had not been present the decrees could not have been called the decrees of the Church: and certainly the comparison of the eye which seeth not but as united to the body, if it be strictly urged, may well prove that the Elders, if the people be not present, even all and every one whom it concerneth, c●● no more exercise jurisdiction, or decern that a scandalous person can be excommunicated, than an eye can see when it is plucked out of the head. Object. 15. Divines bring an argument from Math. 18. by ●●●logy and proportion from particular congregations, to prove Na●i●nall and general Synods of the whole Christian world. Ergo, they suppose that a particular Church is the measure and pattern, and first Church which hath power of excommunication, Answ. Parker, and some few inclining to our brethren's mind do so, but Divines understand by a Church a Presbyterial Church, which they make the measure and pattern of Assemblies. Object. 16 Here is a particular Church, because here is an offended brother who is a member thereof. This particular Church hath Elders, this particular Church is a whole Church, 1 Cor. 14. if the whole Church come together. Jam. 5. Send for the Elders of the Church. It cannot be, that the sick● person is to send for the Elders of a Presbyterial Church that are so far removed from the sick man. Answ. An hand with five fingers is a whole hand, but not a whole body; a Congregation is a whole Church in its own kind, whole for those things that concern itself, but not whole and complete for all jurisdiction. If james should bid, send for all the Elders, this consequence should have some colour. Object. 17. A Presbyterial Church can be an offending Church, but this, Math. 18. is for an offending brother, if thy brother sin against thee, etc. Answ. Christ giveth an instance only in an offending brother, but the doctrine is for the curing of an offending Church also, for all persons to be gained, Thou hast gained thy brother. We are to gain Churches even as we are not to offend Churches, 1 Cor. 10. 32. Object. 18▪ There are no Church-censures meant here, Christ's scope is to resolve a case of conscience, how far we are to go on with an offending brother before we behave ourselves to him as to an heather. ●, It is said, if thy brother sin against thee, Ergo, it is a private offence, not a public Church-scandall, that deserveth excommunication. Answ. Christ's purpose is to show how we may gain to repentance an offending brother, Thou hast gained thy brother. And he will have us use both public and private means to gain him. 2. It is such a sin as must be told to the Church, when obstinacy to the Church is added, and therefore at length it is a public scandal and so deserveth excommunication. Ob. 2. Reprove him, that is, convince him, but is it not reproving to be brought before the Church? must I reprove every one who offendeth me, even the King? it is a man's glory to pass by an offence; and Solomon for biddeth us to overhear our servant cursing us. Answ. God hath made every man his brother's keeper, and we are not to suffer sin in our brother, but in any case to rebuke him, Leu. 19, 17. the King is not every man's brother whom he is to use familiarly, as the brother meant of here; though Kings should be rebuked by their Nobles, and by Pastors. 2. We are to pass over offences, that is, to forgive those that sin against us, and not to be too curious to know who reproacheth us, as Salomon's meaning is to be taken, and to be willing to forgive, and yet to labour to gain our brother by rebukes; one act of love fighteth not with another. Ob. 3. Tell the Church, is not meant of a Christian Church, but he speaketh of a thing present, but there was no Christian Church as yet. Answ. It followeth not, it is a rule especially for time to come, though Christ speak after this manner, as if it were a thing present. Ob. 4. It is not much that the word, Church, signifieth only in this place a company of godly men, witnesses of the man's offence; for 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 signifieth only once, Joh. 3. the wind. 2. Christ spoke in the Syriak and Gnedah, Psal. 22. Gnedah a company, or many Bulls have compassed m●, 1 San. 19 a company of Prophets, Gnedah. The meaning is, if he be not convinced by the testimony of two, rebuke him before many. Answ. It is not like, that seeing in the Chapter preceding he s●ake of the Church, as of a company to whom the Keys of the Kingdom of Heaven were given, and that here he speaking of a Church which hath authoritative power to bind and lose, that Christ hath any such insolent meaning of the word Church, as only to note many Christians. 2. The Syriak is not the Original, but the Greek. Ob. 5. The witnesses spoken of here are not witnesses of the offences, but of the reproof, and therefore there is nothing here of a judicial process. Answ. Yea, but these witnesses are witnesses both of the reproote, and of that obstinacy, for the which the man's sins are bound in Heaven. Ob. 6. Let him be to thee as an Heathen. He saith not, let him be to the C●urt as an Heathen, and therefore here is no shadow of any Court. Ans. It is an ordinary hebraism, when the second person is put for the third, especially in Laws, as, Thou shalt not send him away empty. Also, Thine eye shall not spare him. Also, Then shalt out away evil out of Israel. And therefore here is a real Court, it the context be considered. Christ speaketh so, Let him be to thee as an Heathen; in opposition to that which he was called to be, for his obstinacy; to wit, a brother, if thy brother offend. And how weak is this? Let him be to thee as an Heathen. Ergo, He should not be to the Church as an Heathen. The contrary consequence is most necessary, if he be to thee as an Heathen, because he is now convinced of obstinacy before two brethren, and before all the Church. Ergo, these two brethren and the whole Church are to count him as an Heathen, for the offended brother hath gone along all the way in the unanimous judgement, and a consort of mind, with both the witnesses and the Church; Ergo, this obstinate man is the same to the Church that he is to the offended brother, that is, he is to both as an Heathen and a Publican, and both are to abstain from eating or brotherly conve si●g with him, as the Jews would not familiarly converse with the heathen, and as Paul commandeth 1 Cor. 5. 10, 11. that with an excommunicated man, we are not to eat. Ob. 7. Whatsoever you bind on earth, is in good sense, that he who offendeth any little one that believeth, his sin is bound in Heaven, as the friends of Job c. 42. were not accepted of God, till they made their peace first with job, yet job had no power of the Keys over his friends, and an offering is not accepted, while first the offerer be reconciled to his broth●r, and so his sins are bound in Heaven, and yet one brother hath not a jurisdiction over another. Answ. Binding and losing in this, Chap. 18. must be the same with binding and losing, Chap. 16. 19 but expressly their binding and losing is by the Church. power of the Keys, and is all one with that authoritative power of remitting and retaining sins 〈◊〉. 20. 21, 22 23. and in Scripture the keys, and binding, and losing, are never ascribed but to Stewards, Officers, Princes, and Judges, who have power of jurisdiction, as I have proved already; and therefore that which is spoken of Jobs friends, and of the offerer not reconciled to his brother, Come not up to the point, for jobs friends do not bind on earth, and the offended brother is a more private man destitute of the keys, and of all power of jurisdiction. It is first objected by our reverend brethren, The extent of the power of jurisdiction in the Elders of a classical Presbytery must be proved by God's Word, which cannot be. For if many classical Elders have power over many Congregations, possibly twenty or thirty Churches, than they bear the relation of Elders to these thirty Congregations, and they must all be Elders of these Churches, as the Scripture saith, the Elders of Ephesus, the Angel of the Church of Pergamus, the Angel of the Church of Thyatira; now this cannot be: for then, First, Deacons must be Deacons of many Congregations, and Deacons might meet in one College to dispose of the Treasury of these thirty, and yet these thirty Churches should not be consulted with, nor could they all convene in one to give their consent and judgement concerning their Treasury. Now though Deacons be inferior to Pastors, yet are they no l●sse Officers in their own sphere, having power, than the Pastors; and Paul writing to the Church of Philippi, writeth to the Deacons as to the Bishops, insinuating that Deacons are Deacons in relation to that Church, no less than Pastors. Answ. I deny the Proposition, to wit, If many Elders be one Presbytery ruling many Congregations, then do they bear the relation of Elders to these many Congregations, as proper Pastors to every Congregation, of, or within that Presbyterial Church: nor do they bear that relation of watchmen and proper Pastors to every one of these Congregations, that a Pastor of a particular Congregation beareth to his particular flock, that is to be ●oved. It is true they are called the Elders of the presbyterial Church of Ephesus, the College of the Angels of the Church of Pergamus; but this is a general and different relation from that which each Pastor, doth carry to his own flock in those respects. 1. The Presbytery are Elders to the classical Church 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ●●; not in things proper to each Congregation but in things common to all, or in that which is the proper object of government, to wit, those things which rather concern the consociation, and combination of those thirty Churches then the thirty consociated, and combined Churches in particular. 2. The Presbytery doth rather take care of the reg●lation of the acts of governing in all these Churches, than the governed Churches: for they are to heed to the Pastors ordained, and to lay h●nds suddenly on no man, to commit the Word to faithful m●n, to see that Pastors preach sound Doctrine, and exercise Discipline according to the rule, but they do not feed as special Pastors the particular flocks, but every one is to feed his own flock over the which the Holy Ghost hath set him, Acts 20, 28. 3 The Elders of the classical presbytery are Elders to all these Churches, as the Elders themselves are, in Collegio Presbyteriali, in the College of Presbyters and properly as they are in the Court, but not separatim, and oct of Court, so this and this Archippus is not an Elder, or Pastor to all these Congregations, so as he hath to answer to God and to watch for the Souls of them all, but he hath a charge of them only in Collegio; and if he do any thing, as a classical Elder, as if he lay hands on a Pastor ordained to be the Pastor of such a Congregation, he doth it as the hand and instrument and deligate of the Presbytery, or if he pronounce the sentence of excommunication in a Congregation, he is virtualitèr in Collegio, when he doth that act, in respect he doth it as the deligate of the Presbytery. And this our Brethren may see in their own particular Eldership of their independent flock, if an Elder occasionally rebuke any of the flock, never convened before the Church, he doth not in that exercise an act of Church Jurisdiction, because he is not now in a Court, and when he is not in the Court he cannot excommunicate, Yet ●iting in Court he doth, in Collegio, with the rest of the Eldership exercise Church Jurisdiction. And separatim, and not joined in the Court they cannot exercise Church Jurisdiction. 2. The presbytery hath a Church-Relation to all these 30. Churches not taken distributively, but collectively as all those are united in one Church classical under one external and visible government, even as the Elders of an independent Church are not Elders of their single Congregation, being separated from their Court, and extra coll●gium Presbyteriale, in the notion of the relation of a Church-Jurisdiction, for they are Elders by reason of Church Jurisdiction only in their Court. 3. Classical Elders in the Court have power of Jurisdiction in relation to this presbyterial, or classiciall Church, but they have not properly an ordinary power of order to preach to them all and every one, and to administrate the Sacraments to them. The Elders of a particular Congregation, have power of order and power of Jurisdiction without the Court, but they have not power of Church jurisdiction, but in the Court; for there is a difference betwixt a power of jurisdiction which Elders have as Watchmen, and a power of Church-Jurisdiction which Elders have not but in foro Ecclesiae, in the Court of Church-Jurisdiction. So the great Sanedrim bear rule over all the Tribes of Israel. But this Judge of the Tribe of Dan a member of the Sanedrim is not a Judge of the Tribe of Benjamin, or a Judge to a thousand of that Tribe, as the Captain of that thousand. 2. I distinguish the proposition, if the Elders of the Presbytery be Elders of the Presbyterial Church, then are they Elders in relation to the many Congregations in that Church, if they be Elders in these common affairs which concern government in general, then are they Elders in feeding, by the word of knowledge, and in governing in all the particulars which concern the government of each Congregation. That I deny, for their oversight in governing in things belonging to all the consociated Churches, doth not make them Elders of all those particular Congregations. 3. Deacons in some cases are also Deacons in relation to all the particular Churches in some reserved cases: if all the Deacons of Macedonia, Corinth and other Churches, should meet in one and take course for supplying the distressed Saines at Jerusalem, what inconvenient were in this? Ob. 2. If Presbyterial Elders be Elders to marry Congregations in a general Relation, what sort of Elders are they? are they Elders ruling, or are they Elders teaching? it is impossible that they can be Elders teaching, to so many Congregations; for teaching is a personal and incommunicable act, that m●n cannot commit to any others, they must perform it in their own persons, a●● cannot commit it to others, if they be Ruling Elders only, and not teaching Elders, this is against the Scripture; for the exten: of teaching and the extent of ruling are commexsurable in the Word, and of alike extersion, Acts 20. 28. These same who are to feed the fl●ck at Eph●sue, are to govern and rul●, and they are to feed the whole fl●ck●, not a part of it; so the Text saith, Take heed to the whole flock, than they are not to govern all in a presbytery, and to feed with teaching the Word, one particular Congregation only; so 1 Pe●. 5. 2. feed the flock of God which is amongst you, not with knowledge only, but be addeth their duty of governing: Taking the oversight thereof, not by constraint, but willingly, etc. So H●b. 13. 7. Remember them that have the rule over you, who have spoken unto you the Word of God; Ergo, these same who have the rule over the flock, and govern, du also speak the Word of the Lord and teach, v. 17. obey them that have the rule over you and submit to them, for they watch for your souls as these who must give account; Ergo, these same who govern, do also as Pastors watch for the flock, as those that are to give an account; but the governing classical Presbytery do rule, but it is impossible that they can give an account for all the Congregations of a classical Presbytery, for they cannot watch over them all, except every one of these must have many Eyes: Nor can they be both ruling and teaching Officers, for than they should have two Offices, if one man be both a Physician and a Chirurgeon to two several companies, he must have two Offices in relation to two charges which he hath to those two companies, if he practise physic to the one company, and chirurgery to the other, this is against the order that Paul Col. 2. rejoiced to behold. Therefore the classical Elders cannot be Rulers having the oversight of the whole classical Church, and yet every one of them must be a 〈◊〉 and teaching pastor only to the single Congregation over which 〈◊〉. Answ. As grandfather's and father's do bear a relation to these same Children divers ways, both are fathers and may tutor and provide for the children, but both are not begetting ●athers, so also do the classical Elders and the Elders of particular Congregations, bear divers relations to the flocks. the question than is what sort of Elders are the Presbyterial Elders to the Presbyterial Church? I distinguish Church, I distinguish Elders. They are Elders classical only to the classical Church collectively taken, and they have an authoritative care over this Church. But they are proper Elders to the classical Church taken distributively, that is, this man is an Elder to this part, or member of the Presbytery, to wit, to this Congregation. And another man to this Congregation as the Elders; in the Court and Aslembly at Jerusalem, Acts 15. they are Elders in relation to the whole Churches of Antioch, Syria, and Silicia, and the Gentiles collectively taken in those dogmatic points, with the confession of our Brethren, and these same Elders were in special manner Elders to the Congregations of Antioch, Syria and Silicia, and other Churches taken distributively; so also the Elders of many consociated, and Neighbouring Churches are special watchmen over their own flocks, by teaching and ruling, according to our brethren's grounds, and also they have a Brotherly care over all the consociated Church, to Council, ●dmonrth, Comfort; seeing every man is his Brother's keeper, by a Divine Law, and the care is like as is it were authoritative, only, by our brethren's way, it wanteth the relation of authority; vet doth it not follow that Elders this way have two Offices. but only that they perform two acts of one and the same Office; also a Pastor of an independent flock, who writcth ● B●●ke for the instruction of Sister-Churches as he preache●● those same Sermons that are in the printed B●oke to his own people and flock, hath two Relations, one to his own flock whom he preacheth unto. as a Pastor, another as an instructor of other Churches by his writings, yet for that he hath not two Offices, as one who is a ' Physician and a Chirurgeon to two sundry companies. if any say, he writeth not Books as a Pastor, by virtue of his Office, but as a gifted man by power of fraternity, let me deny the truth of the distinction, for this is to beg what is in question; For to teach the Churches by writing should proceed from the authoritative power of a Pastor, as a Pastor; and by that same official power that he teacheth his own flock viuâ voce, by vocal preaching, as a Doctor he teacheth other Churches by writing. But it was asked, whether are the classical Elders ruling Elders, or Teaching Elders to the classical Church? Answ. They are both, and they are neither, in divers considerations, they be teaching Elders in all the Congregations, distributively taken, they are Rulers in all collectively taken, they are Teachers 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, in some reserved acts, resolving synodically some cases of conscience and dogmatic points upon occasion, but they be not the constant Teachers to watch for the Souls of all. 3. The places, Acts 20. 28. 1 Pet. 5. 2. Heb. 137. 17. prove that those that rule in common many Churches should be Teachers of these same Churches distributively, and all the Eldership at Ephesus should rule the whole Churches amongst them. And there should no Pastor be a sole Ruler and not a Teacher, as the Prelate is; nor is there a Pastor who is a sole Teacher, and it is very true he who is a ruling Pastor is also a Teaching Pastor, but not to that same flock always. Neither is this true, that because power of jurisdiction is founded upon power of order, therefore teaching should be every way commensurable with ruling; for 1. The Eldership convened in Court, and only formalitèr in foro Ecclesiae, in this Court hath Church-power of Jurisdiction, in a Congregation, and in this Court they govern, but the Eldership in this Court neither doth preach, nor can preach. 2. The power of ruling is in the ruling Elder, but not the power of teaching, and the power of teaching publicly is in the unofficed Prophet, as our Brethren teach, and yet in him there is no power of ruling. Ob. 3. It is strange that to excommunicate agreeth to the ruleing Elder in a classical Presbytery, which he may do in many Congregations, and so he may perform his principal acts over thirty or forty Congregations; and yet the Pastor may not perform his principal act of teaching in many Congregations, by virtue of his office, but only in one congregation, by this frame of a classical Church. Answ. The ruling Elder doth only in some common cases with the presbytery perform his special acts, but all the ordinary acts of the spiritual Jurisdiction the ruling Elder performeth in that Congregation whereof he is an Elder, nor is this an inconvenient; but preaching which is given to unofficed men by our Brethren, should not be called the principal part of a Pastor's charge. Ob. 4. It is unreasonable that a Prelate or a Pope should rule me, and not teach me, and we condemned this in Prelates that they would only rule, and not teach: But the classical presbytery doth fall in that same fault, for they govern the whole classical Church, but they do not teach the whole classical Church; It is dreadful for a man to watch for the souls of one single Congregation, as being under necessity to give an accempt; Ergo, far more dreadful it is to watch also for a whole tract of thirty or forty Churches, the Apostle will have Him who watcheth for one flock to entangle himself with no other employments. How then shall he take the burden of thirty, or forty Flocks? Answ. It is unreasonable that Prelate and Pope should rule me, and so many hundred Churches 1. as the sole and proper Pastors, and all under them be but suffragans and deputed Pastors, doing by borrowed authority from Pope and Prelate. 2. That their sole Office should be to command feeders as Pastors of pastors, and not to feed with knowledge the flock, that is most true; but the classical presbyters are neither principal nor proper pastors of the whole classical Churches collectively, nor are two or three pastors under them as deputies. 3. Nor is their Office to rule only, not to feed with knowledge also. 2. The pastors of independent flocks are obliged by brotherly association, to be Vine-Keepers, Governors, fellow-Counsellers to forty sister- Churches, for they acknowledge Ass●●tion of 〈…〉 ●. 19 that Churches cannot subsist in good government without the help of Synods; Now if we distinguish onerousn●sse, care, and labour of B●therly watching over one another, and oner●u●n●sse, care, and labour, by way of Jurisdiction, the former is as great in foro Dei, in the Court of Conscience as the latter, and so ou● Brethren make Governing without Teaching, as well as we do; They in a Brotherly way, we in a way of Jurisdiction. I prove that their way is as dreadful and laborous in the ●oynt of conscience, and in a way of giving account to God, as our way. For 1. A divine command that we be our brethren's keepers, and we watch over one another commandeth onerousnesse, and care in Brotherly governing to them, as to us. 2. We make the ground and foundation of governing a Classical Church that band of Love and Union of the members of one Body of Christ, and this band of Lovely and Brotherly consociation of many Congregations commandeth, and ti●th us to do no more in Governing and i● Helping, and promoting the edification of sister- Churches, then if we had no further warrant to promote edification, than the alone relation of Brotherly consociation, for the only and very reason why the Wisdom of our Lawgiver Christ hath put a special Commandment on consociated Churches to make one Presbytery, and to govern one Classical Church, in these common points that concern the whole Classical Church, in the point of sound Doctrine and lawful and Ministerial Jurisdiction, is the necessity that Members of one Body have of Brotherly Help, Light, Direction, Comfort one of another. Which point I desire carefully to be observed: for we see no ground to make the powers of a Congregation, of a presbytery, of a Province. of a national Church, powers formally and essentially different, they differ only in more or less extension, as the adjunct or genuine property of one and the same great visible Body, which is one integral part; That same. 1. Covenant of God. 2. That same Lord 3. That same Spirit. 4. That same Faith and Baptism. 5. That same power of the Keys in Nature and Essence belongeth to all; only the power must be more or less, as the Body is more or less, as there is more of that vis loc●motiva, the power of moving in the Hand then i● one Finger, and in the whole Arm then in the Hand only, and in the whole body then in the Hand. And I clear it in this, a man is a gifted Preacher in a Congregation in an Island, there is none other gifted of GOD to Preach the Gospel but he only. I would think, as a Brother he were under as great an Obligation of care, and laborious onerousnesse of conscience to bestow his Talon for the gaining of Souls by preaching, though he were not called to be their Pastor, and that by virtue of his Brotherly relation to the people, as if he were called to be their Pastor. I desire to know what the naked relation of Authority, or Jurisdiction addeth to his care and onerousnesse in point of labouring by preaching the Gospel. Indeed now being called, his care is Pastoral and more authoritative. But if according to the measure of the Talon, every one is to proportion his pains to gain more Talents to his Lord, and if the relation of a Pastor add no degrees of gifts to His Talon, as we may suppose, I think his onerousnesse in labouring was as great before he was a Pastor as after: but I speak not this, to say that in a constituted Church there is no calling required other than gifts. Nor do I speak this to say, that a calling is not a new motive why a man should employ his gifts for the honour of the Giver; But only to show that CHRIST hath united powers of Jurisdiction in Congregations, in Presbyteries, in Churches of Provinces and Nations; that so, not only gifts might conduce to help and promove edification, but also united powers of Jurisdiction which are also gifts of God, and though some may say that a calling to an Office layeth on M●n a more special Obligation, to make account for Souls, than gifts only (which in some sense, I could also yield) yet seeing we think the relation of the Eldership to a whole Classical Church is not founded upon an Office different from the Offices of Pastors and Elders which they have, and are clothed with in relation to their particular Congregations, but only authoritative acts of the same Office, and that for the common promoving of edification in the whole Classical Church, grounded in the depth of his Wisdom who hath seven Eyes, upon a Brotherly Consociation, in which they must either edify one another, and occasionally partake of these same holy things, or then scandalise and leaven one another, with their public transgressions; we cannot see how presbyterial Elders are more to give account for the Souls of the whole Classical Church in Scriptures sense, Hebrews 13. 17. then consociated pastors and Elders of consociated Churches are to give an account to GOD for sister Churches, over which they are to watch, and whose Souls they are to keep, and so far as they are Brethren must make a reckoning to GOD for them. And how can the presbytery be more said to entangle themselves, in governing the Classical Church in some things, with things not proper to their calling, seeing consociated Churches, in a Brotherly way, do meddle with those same things, though not in a way of Jurisdiction? For helping the Classical Church by way of Fraternity is not unproper to a Christian calling of Brethren, and the joining of power of Jurisdiction; I mean of power lesser to another power greater, to help the Classical Church, upon the same ground of Fraternity, cannot be unproper to the calling of a College of presbyters. Objecti. 5. The power of Presbyteries taketh away the power of a Congregation, therefore it cannot be lawful. The antecedent is thus confirmed. 1. Because if the Presbytery ordains one to be Excommunicated, whom the Elders of a Congregation in conscience think ought not to be Excommunicated, the man, Jure Divino, must be Excommunicated, and the power of the Congregation, which Christ hath given to them is nul. And the exercise thereof impeded by a greater power. 2. the voices of two Elders of a Congregation, which are now sitting in the greater and classical Presbytery, are swallowed up by the greater number of Elders, of thirty or forty Congregations met in one great presbytery; Ergo, the power of the Congregation is not helped by the presbytery, but close taken away. Answ. The Argument doth presuppose that which is against GOD'S Law, to wit. 1. That there is a contradiction of Voices, betwixt the Elders of a Cong egation, and of the greater presbytery; which should not be, for Brethren even of Galathia, which contained many Congregations, as our Brethren confess, should all mind and speak, and agree in one thing that belongeth to Church Discipline, as is clear, Gala. 1. 8. Gala. 5. 10 v. 15. Gala. 6. 1. 2. 2. The Argument supposeth that the greater presbytery is wrong in their voicing, that such a man should be excommunicated, and the two Elders of the congregational Church is right, and hath the best part in judging that the same man ought not to be Excommunicated. But Christ hath given no power to any Church to err, and that power which in this case the presbytery exerciseth is not of Christ; and de jure, the power of the greater presbytery in this case ought to be swallowed up of the two Voices of the Elders of the Congregation. But suppose that the Elders of one Congregation, and the whole meeting all agree in the truth of GOD, as they all do Acts 15. will you say that Peter, Paul, and james their power is null, and taken from them; and their three voices are swallowed up in that great convention, because to their power and voices are added, in this dogmatic determination (which you grant even now to many consociated Churches) the power and voices of the rest of the Apostles and Elders; yea and as some say, of the whole Church. Acts 15. 2, v. 6. 25. Acts 16. 4. Acts 21. 18. 25? I believe addition of lawful power doth not annul lawful power, but corroborate and strengthen it. So this shall fall upon your own Eldership of your independent Congregation. Suppose ●en Pastors, Elders and Doctors in one of your Congregations, whereas sometime there were but three, and these three had the sole power of Jurisdiction and exercise of the Keys, you cannot say that the accession of six Elders to three, hath made null the power of three, and swallowed up their voices; for if their power and voices were against the truth, it is fit they should be swallowed up: if they were for CHRIST, they are strengthened, by the accession of lawful power and more voices, and neither annulled nor swallowed up. Object. 6. The Church at the first, for example, when it was but a hundreth and twenty, had the full entire power within itself: Ergo, it should be in a worse case by the multiplication of Churches, if now that power be given to Presbyteries. Ans. It is a conjecture, that the whole Christian Church Acts 1. was only an hundreth and twenty. I think there were more, though these only convened at the ordination of Mathias, for there were above five hundred Brethren at once which saw CHRIST after his Resurrection, 1 Cor. 15. 6. and these, I Judge, belonged to the Christian Church also. 2. It is constantly denied that addition of lawful power to lawful power doth arnull, or put in a worse condition the prexistent power; it doth help it, but not make it worse: and twenty Churches adding their good and Christian counsels, and comforts to two Churches do not annul, or hurt or swallow up either the power of good counseling in these two Churches or their good counsels, but do much confirm, and strengthen them. Object. 7. It is absurd that there should be a Church in a Church, and two distinct kind of Churches, or a power above a power, a Jurisdiction above a Jurisdiction, a State above a State, as Master and Servant, and Father and Son, so there is here a governing and a commanding Classical Presbytery, and a governed and commanded Classical Church, and in a political consideration formally different: now where there be two different States, there be two different names, Titles, and Adjuncts, as 1 Cor. 12. 28. GOD hath set some in the Church, first Apostles, secondarily Prophets. So it is said, Genesis 1. GOD made two distinct Lights, a greater Light to serve the Day, and a lesser Light to rule the Night. But the Scripture maketh no mention of greater or lesser Presbyteries, we have the name of Presbytery but twice in the New Testament, and in matter they differ not, for these same Elders are the matter of both: in form they differ not, for the same combination and union is in all: they differ not in operations, for the superior hath no operations but such as the inferior can exercise, for because a Pastor exhort●th a Pastor comforteth, we do not make two kinds of Pastors, if we cannot find a distinction betwixt presbyter and Presbyter, how can w●e 〈◊〉 a distinction betwixt Presbytery and Presbytery? Hath the Wisdom of Christ left these Thrones in such a confusion, as by Scripture they cannot be known, by Name, Title, Nature, Operations? And if there be a power above a power, we have to a●end to a Nation and so to subdite a whole Nation, and their consciences to this Government, and we are to put a Kingdom within a Kingdom. Answ. A Church-Congregationall within a Church-Classicall is no more inconventent, than a part in the whole, an Hand in the Body, and that is a lesser body in a greater, and our Brethren call the people a Church, and the Elders the Elders of the Church, and what is this but a Church in a Church? 2. A power above a power, is not absurd, except it be a Church-power, so above a Church-power, as the Superior power be privative and destructive to the inferior, as the Pope's power destroyeth the power of the Church Universal, and the prelate's power destroyeth the power of the 〈◊〉 where of he is pretended Pastor. But the power of the presbytery is A●xiliarte, and cumulative to help the Congregation, not privative and destructive to destroy the power of congregations. Secondly, a power above a power in the Church cannot be denied by our Brethren: for 1. In the Eldership of a ●●●gle Congregation, the Eldership in the Court hath a power of Jurisdiction above a power of order, which one single Minister hath, to preach the Word and administrate the Sacraments; for they may regulate the Pastor and censure him, if he preach heretical Doctrine: is not this a power above a power? yea two Elders in the Court have a power of Jurisdiction to govern with the whole prebsytery, but the power of the whole presbytery is above the power of a part. But to com● nearer; The Apostles and Elders at jerusalem met in a Synod have a power, in dogmatic points over the Church at Antioch, and others: and our Brethren say that the Church at Antioch might have in their inferior Synod determined these same points which the Synod determined at jerusalem; her's power above power. Thirdly, we do not see how they be two, or divers indicatures formally and specisically different in nature and operations, for they differ only in more or less extension of power, as the reasons do prove, as the power of government in one City or Borough, doth not differ formally from the power of the whole Cities and Boroughs, incorporated and combined in one common Judicature, and the power of two or three, or four Colleges, doth not differ from the power of the whole combination of Colleges combined in the common Judicature of the Universities: so here the powers of the inferior Judicatures do differ from the Superior only in degree, and in number of members of the Judicatures; the policy divine is one and the same, though the Superior can exercise acts of Jurisdiction different from the Acts of the inferior in an ordinary way; such as are ordination of Pastors and excommunication, where many Churches are consociated; though, where this consociation is not, Ordination and Excommunication may be done by one single Congregation: also to argue from the not distinction of Names, Titles and Adjuncts of the judicatures is but a weak Argument, because congregational, and presbyterian, provincial and a national Church-Body make all one body, and the inferior is but a part and member of the Superior, and therefore it was not needful that as Apostles and Prophets, and the Sun the greater light by name and Office is distinguished from the Moon Gen. 1. the lesser light, that Congregation and Presbyter should be distinguished by Names and Office and Titles in the Scripture; for a Prophet is not formally a part of an Apostle, but an Officer formally different from him, and the Moon is not a part of the Sun, as a Congregation is a part of the Classical Church: so Mat. 18. the Scripture distinguisheth not the people and Elders in the word (Ecclesia) Church, as our Brethren will have then both meant in that place, Mat. 18. Teil the Church. Now we say as they do to us in the like, we are not to distinguish where the Law doth not distinguish. But the Scripture saith, Mat. 18. The Church that the offended hath recourse unto, is that Church which must be obeyed as a Judicature and spiritual Court, but the people is neither a Judicature, nor any part thereof. And 2. Of that Church Christ doth speak that doth actually bind on Earth and loose on Earth, and that by the power of the Keys, but the people neither as a part of the Court doth actually bind and lose on Earth by power of the Keys. 3. Christ speaketh of that Court, and of that Church which doth exercise Church-power on Earth, under the title of binding and losing; but we find not a Church in the face and presence of the people binding and losing under the name of the Church, in the Word of God. Shall we use such an insolent signification of the word Church, as the Word of God doth not use? and Lastly, I say of these of Corinth gathered together convened together in the Name of the Lord Jesus, with the Ministerial spirit of Paul and with the power of the Lord jesus; these cannot be the Church excommunicating before the people. The Text destinguisheth not the Court of Elders who hath the power of Jurisdiction from the people, and all these to whom he writeth, and who were puffed up and mourned not for the scandal, have no such power of Jurisdiction: nor can the Text bear that the Elders set up a Court before the Eyes of all the people, and delivered such a man to Satan, so as this is called the head of Elders and people, as our Brethren teach, and here they distinguish where the Scripture distinguisheth not. Fourthly, if the Scripture give to us Thrones really different, though names and titles cannot be found, more than we find expressly and in words; two Sacraments, three Persons and one God, Christ jesus in two Natures, and one Person, then have we what we seek: but we have these different in the things themselves, as Acts 2. 46. we have a Church meeting in an House, for Word and Sacraments, as Acts 20. 8. and a Congregation in Corinth meeting in an House, 1 Cor. 11. 20. 1 Cor. 14. 23. and consequently here must be some power in this meeting to order the worship of God: this single meeting is to rebuke those that sin openly, and to hinder Women to preach in the Congregation; and to forbid, by the power of the Keys, that two speak at once; because God is the God of order; to borbid Doctrine that edifieth not, and speaking God's Word in an unknowen Tongue, etc. 2. There is an Eldership 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in every City in Ephesus, in jerusalem who met for Jurisdiction, Acts 21. 18. who laid hands on Timothy, 1 Tim. 14. 14. in Antioch, Acts 13. 1. 3. There is a meeting of a provincial Church in Galathia; where there are many Churches, as may be gathered from Acts 5. 9 10. who were to purge out the scandalous and false Teachers who leavened all others, and who were Gal. 6. 1. to restore with the spirit of meekness any fallen Brother; and 4. There a map and pattern of a general Synod warranting both a national Church-meeting, and an O●cumenick council. And the like may be gathered from that Synod, Acts 1. and Acts 6. where these universal guides of the whole Christian World, to wit, the Apostles were, and did exercise Jurisdiction, by ordaining of Officers; and though instances of these could not be given in Scripture, there is a moral ground and warrant for it 1. Because joint power of Jurisdiction are surer and better, than a lesser and dispersed power. For if the Keys be given to the Church visible, not to this or this little Church, as meetting in a private House, Acts 2. 46. Acts 20. 8. The division or union of this power, the extension of it must be squared by the rule of most convenient edification, and it cannot stand with edification if it be given to one Congregation only: The God of nature for conserving humane societies, hath given the power of government originally, not to one, but to a multitude; for one only is not in danger to be wronged and oppressed in a society; but a society is in this danger, therefore hath God given this power to a multitude: and a multitude is the formal object of policy and government, and cannot but be dissolved, where Laws and Government are not; So the God of Grace must have given a power of government to a society and multitude of little Churches: for a multitude of Congregations is a multitude, and therefore this society and consociation cannot subsist, except Christ have provided a supernatural government for it. It is not reasonable, that some say, a moral institution is not an institution; for Magistracy is both moral, and a Divine institution; that God have a certain day for his service is both moral, and also a Divine institution: all institutions are not merely positive, as some suppose, such as is, that the last day of the week be the Sabbath, that Bread and Wine be signs of Christ's Body br●ken, and his Blood shed for us. So supposing that Christ have a visible Church, it is moral that she have power of government also, in so far as she is a Church. Yea power of government, upon this supposition, is natural, or rather con natural; so by the same ground upon supposal that Christ have, in a Nation, a multitude of consociated Churches, who for vicinity may either edify, encourage, comfort and provoke ●re another to love and good works, they submitting themselves to the Laws of Christ's policy, or may scandalise one another (as many consociated Churches in Galathia were bend to bite, devour and consume one another, Gal. 5. 15.) it is moral, yea and con-naturall that they be under a Divine policy external. Nor is it more agreeable to the Wisdom of Christ that a multitude of consociated Churches in one Land should be left to the Laws of nature, and Christian brotherhood, and be loosed from all Laws of external policy, then that the just Lord who intendeth the conservation of humane societies should leave every man to the Law of nature, and not give them a power to set up a Magistracy, and to appoint humane and civil Laws whereby they may be conserved. And I think we should all say, if God had apppointed every great Family▪ yea or every twenty Families in the World to be independent, within itself and subordinate to no civil law, to no power, to no Magistracy without that independent little incorporation, that God had not then apppointed a power of civil Policy, and civil Laws for the conservation of mankind; and the reason should be clear, because in one Shire, Country, Province and Nation there should be a multitude, to wit, ten hundred, ten thousand independent Kingdoms subject to no Laws, nor civil policy, but immediately subordinate to GOD in the Law of nature, and when these ten thousand should rise up and with the Sword devour one another, and one society independent should wrong another, the only remedy should be to complain to God, and renounce civil communion with such Societies; that is, traffic not with them, (do not take or give, borrow or lend, buy or sell with them) but it is unlawful to use any coercive power of natural, or civil reparation to compel them to do duty, or execute mercy and Judgement one toward another: now seeing grace destroyeth not nature, neither can there be a policy independent which doth contradict this maxim of natural policy, acknowledged by all, in all policies, civil, natural, supernatural, God intending the conservation of societies both in Church and State hath subjected all Societies, and Multitudes to Laws of external policy: but so it is, a Multitude of little Congregations is a Multitude; and a Society. Then it must follow, that government of independent little bodies, under no coactive power of Church censures, must want all divine institution and so be will worship. For these it shall be easy to answer the obloquys of some, saying, that a national Church under the New Testament is Judaisme. Hence say they, a national Religion, a national Oath or Covenant, is like a World-Church, a Church, a huge body as big as the Earth: and so, if some Augustus should subdue the whole World to himself with the Sword, He might compel the World to be all of one Church, of one Religion. Answ. The term national-church is not in the Word of God, but I pray you in what sense can the jewish-church be called a national-church? I conceive not, because of the typical and ceremonial observances that put a Church-frame on the whole Nation: for if so, than the name of a national Church or a national Religion cannot, by envy itself, be put in the reformed Churches, or on Church of Scotland which hath suffered so much for jewish and Romish Ceremonies. But if the Jews were a national-church, because they were a holy Nation in profession, and God called the Nation, and made 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, a Church externally called to grace and glory and the whole Nation commensurable, and of equal extent then all Christian Nations professing the true Faith, and the Gentiles, as well as the jews; Then the believing jews of Pontus, Asia, Cappadocia, and Bythinia (as Augustine, Eusebius, Oecumenius, Athanasius do think that Peter wrote to the jews) yea and the Gentiles, (as many interpreters with Lorinus, Thomas, Lyra and others think) are yet 1 Pet. 2. 9 an holy Nation, and so a national Church; and there is no more reason to scoff at a national Church in this sense, then to mock the holy Spirit which maketh but one Church in all the World, Cant. 6. 9 as Cotton, Ainsworth, and other favourable witnesses to our Brethren, confess; And if the Gentiles shall come to the light of the Jewish Church, and Kings to the brightness of of their rising, Esai. 60. 3. if the abundance of the Sea shall be converted to the jews true Faith and Religion; And the forces of the Gentiles shall come to them, vers. 5. and if all flesh shall see the revealed glory of the Lord, Esai. 40. 5. and the Earth shall be filled with the knowledge of God, as the Seas are filled with Water. It is most agreeable to the Lords Word that there, is and shall be a Church through the whole World; you may nickname it as you please, and call it a World-religion, a World-church. As if the lost and blinded World, joh. 2. 16, 17. 1 Joh. 5. 19 2 Corin, 4. 4. were all one with the Loved, Redeemed, Pardoned and Reconciled World, joh. 3. 16. joh. 1. 29. 2 Cor. 5. 19 as if we confounded these two Worlds, and the Religion of these two Worlds. And if this World could meet in its principal lights, neither should an universal council, nor an Oath of the whole Representative Church be unlawful, but enough of this before. And what if the World be subdued to the World, and a World of Nations come in, and submit to Christ's Sceptre, and royal power in his external government: are the opposers such strangers in the Scriptures, as to doubt of this? Read then Esai. 60. 4. 5. c. 60. 11, 12, 13, 14, 15: v. 4. 5, 6 7. Psal. 2. 8, 9 Psal. 72. 8. 9 10. Esai. 54. 3. Esai. 49. 1. Esai. 45. 22. 23. Psal. 110: 1, 2, 3, 4 5. and many other places, and there is a Kingdom in a Kingdom. Christ's Kingdom and his Church lodging in a Worldly Kingdom, and Christ spiritually in his power triumphing over the World, and subduing Nations to his Gospel. Object. 8. If Classical Presbyters be not Elders in ●elation to the classical Church, and so to all the Congregations in it, ye must forsake all these places, where it is said, the Elders of Jerusalem, the Elders of Ephesus, the Angels of the seven Churches, which is absurd; if they be Elders to all these Churches, than 1. All those people in those Churches must submit their consciences to them and their Ministry, as to a lawful ordinance of God. 2. All the people of those Churches must have voice in election of them all. 3. All these people owe to the●s maintenance and double honour. 1 Tim. 5. 17. for if the Ox's mouth must not be muzzled, but he must be fed by me and my corn, he must tread my corn, and labour for me. These Churches cannot all meet in one, to ordain, and choose all these Ministers, and to submit to their Ministry. Answ. The Elders are Elders of Ephesus and Elders of Jerusalem, not because every Elder hath a special, pastoral charge over every Church distributively taken, for it was impossible that one Congregation of all the converts in jerusalem extending to so many thousands, could all bear the relation of a Church to one man as their proper Elder, who should personally reside in all, and every one of those Congregations to watch for their souls, to preach to all and every Congregation 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, in season and out of season. But they are in cumulo called Elders of Ephesus, in that sense that Kings are called the Kings of the Nations not because every King was King of every Nation, for the King of Edom was not the King of Babylon; and the King of Babel was not the King of Assyria, yet amongst them they did all fill up that name to be called the Kings of the Nations, so were the Elders of jerusalem in cumulo, collectively taken, Elders of all the Churches of jerusalem collectively taken; and as it followeth not that the King of Edom, because he is one of the Kings of the Nations, is elected to the Crown of Caldea, by the Voices of the States and Nobles of Caldea; so is it not a good consequence, such a number are called the Elders of the Church of jerusalem, therefore the Elder of one Congregation at the Eastern Gate at jerusalem, is also an Elder of a Congregation of the Western Gate. Nor doth it follow that these two Congregations should submit their consciences to one and the same Elder as to their proper Pastor; to whose Ministry they owe consent in Election, Obedience in submitting to his Doctrine, and mainetenance for his labours; all these are due to him, who is their own proper Pastor: the as Chaldeans owe not Honour, Allegiance, Tribute to the King of Edom, though the Kingdom of Caldea be one of the Kingdoms of the Nations, and the King of Edom one of the Kings of the Nations. But if indeed all the Kings of the Nations did meet in one Court, and in that Court govern the Nations with common Royal authority, and counsel in those things which concern all the Kingdoms in common; then all the Nations were obliged to obey them in that Court, as they govern in that Court, but no farther: and when the people do consent to the power of that common Court tacitly, they consent that every one of these shall be chosen King of such and such a Kingdom; and promise also tracitly Obedience, and Subjection to every one of the Kings of the Nations, not simply as they are Kings in relation to such a Kingdom, but only as they are members of that Court; so the Congregations acknowledging and consenting to the classical Presbytery, do tracitly choose and consent to the common charge and care that every Pastor hath, as he is a Member of that common Court which doth concern them all, therefore all these consequences are null. Object. 9 But when the Presbytery doth excommunicate in a particular Congregation by a delegate, they may with as good reason, preach by a delegate, as exercise Jurisdiction by a delegate; the one is as personal and incommunicable, as the ●●●r. Answ. It is certain there be great odds; for the acts of jurisdiction performed by speaking in the Name of jesus Christ, do come from a College and Court, and because it were great confusion that a whole Court should speak, therefore of necessity such acts must be done by a delegate. Indeed the Juridical acts of the whole juridical proceeding of decerning the man to be excommunicated cannot be done by one man only, it would be most conveniently done by the whole Senate, or at least by a select number against which the accused party hath no exception, and is willing to be judged by; but the acts of order, as Preaching flowing from the power of order, can be performed only by the Pastor in his own person, and not by a deputy. Except that a Synodical teaching, which cometh from the power of Jurisdiction may be sent in writ by Messengers and Deputies to the Churches, Acts 15. 25. Acts 16. 4. Object. 10. A Pastor is not a Pastor, but in relation to his own Church, or Congregation. Therefore he cannot do Pastoral Acts of either Order, or Jurisdiction in a Presbytery. Answ. How a Pastor is a Pastor in relation to all the World deserveth discussing. First, Some have neither power of Order nor Jurisdiction in any place, as private persons. Secondly, some have both power of Order and Jurisdiction through all the World, as the Apostles who might teach and administrate the Sacraments, and Excommunicate as Apostles, in every Church. Thirdly, some have power of Order, and Jurisdiction in a certain determinate place, as Pastors in their own particular Congregations. Fourthly, some have power of Order in relation to all the World, as Pastors of a Congregation, who are Pastors validly Preaching and Administrating the Sacraments, but orderly and lawfully Preaching, where they have a calling of those, who can call to the occasional exercise of their calling hic & nunc. In this meaning a Pastor of one flock is a Pastor, in regard of power of Order to all the World. Because though his pastoral teaching be restrained by the Church in ordinary, only to this Congregation, yet hath he a pastoral power to preach to all the World, in in an occasional way, both by Word and Writ, yet doth not this power being but the half of his Ministerial power, denominate him a Pastor to all the World, as the Apostles were; and the same way hath he power to administrate the Sacraments, and this way may our Brethren see that power of order to be a Minister or Pastor is given by the Presbytery, so as if the man were deprived clavae non errante, he now hath lost his pastoral relation to both the Catholic Church, and that Congregation, whereof he is a Pastor. So as he is now a private man, in relation not only to that Congregation whereof he was a Pastor, but also in relation to the whole visible Church; now no particular Congregation hath power to denude him of this relation, that he had to the whole catholic Church. But a Pastor of a flock is a Pastor in respect of power of Jurisdiction, not over all the World, to excommunicate in every Presbytery, with the Presbytery, he is only capable by virtue of his power of order, to exercise power of Jurisdiction, where he shall come, upon suposall of a call, if he be chosen a Pastor there, or be called to be a Commissioner in the higher, or highest Courts of the Church catholic, but other ways he hath no power of Jurisdiction, but in that Court whereof he is a member; that is, in the Eldership of a Congregation, and in the Classical Presbytery: for he is so a member of a Congregation, as he is also a member of the Classical Presbytery, and therefore though he be not a Pastor one way in this Classical Court, I mean in respect of power of order, yet is he a Pastor, 〈◊〉, in watching over that Church, in respect of power of Jurisdiction. Our brethren's ground then is weak when they say. A Pastor cannot give the Seals to those of another Congregation, because he hath no Ministerial power over those of another Congregation; if they mean power of Jurisdiction, it is true, he hath no Jurisdiction over those of another Congregation: but if they mean, he hath no power of order over them, that is, for what ever be the Church's part in this, it is certain the Pastor doth administrate the Seals by power of order, and not by power of jurisdiction, and the Church as the Church hath not any power of order, for she is not called to any pastoral dignity, though we should grant that, which yet can never be proved, that she is invested with a Ministerial power. Object, 11. If the Church, which you suppse to be presbyterial, to wit, the Church of Corinth, did excommunicate, or was commanded to excommunicate the incestuous person, before the Congregation convened and met in one, then must your classical Church exercise all other acts of jurisdiction, before all the congregational Churches of the Classical Presbytery meet in one. But this latter is as impossible, as absurd; For how shall thirty or forty Congregations meet all, in one place, for all the several acts of Jurisdiction? Also you confess that many Congregations cannot meet in one place: that the proposition may be made good; We suppose these grounds of the Presbyterial frame of Churches: 1. That the presbyterial Church of Corinth, not the Congregation had the only power of excommunication. 2. That this man was to be excommunicated in presence, and so with the consent of the whole multitude, for so the Text saith, 1 Cor. 5. 4. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. When you are gathered together. 3. Excommunication is the highest act of jurisdiction in the Church, being the binding of the sinner in Heaven and Earth, if therefore this highest act of jurisdiction must be performed before all the Church congregated in one, then must all acts of jurisdiction be performed also in presence of the congregated Church; for it concerneth their edification, and is a matter of conscience to then: all. 4. The reason why we think sit he should be excommunicated before, or in presence of that Congregation whereof he is a member, is because it concerneth them, and he is a member of this Congregation, But by your grounds, the whole Presbyterial or classical Church should be present, which were impossible; for he is to you a Member of the whole Classical Church, and the power of excommunication is in the whole classical Church, and they ought to be present by the same reason, that the Congregation, whereof he is a nearest member, is present. Answ. 1. There be many things in this argument to be corrected, as 1. That the Church of Corinth conve●ed in the whole multitude whom it concerned, for 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, doth not prove it; for the same Word is spoken of the meeting of the Apostles and Elders, who met in a Synod with authority, Acts 15. 6. the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is attributed to the multitude, Acts 21. v. 22. and to the Church of Believers, 1 Cor. 11. 20. and 1 Cor. 14. 23. therefore the one word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 seemeth to be no cogent Argument. 2. The word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, which is not here in all this Chapter, or 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is used in the New Testament, and by the seventy Interpreters, whose translation Christ and his Apostles do frequently follow in the New Testament, use the words for any meeting of good or ill, of civil or Ecclesiastical persons. As I might instance is a great many places of the Old and New Testament; then what is it, I pray you, which restricteth the signification of these words to signify a civil, rather than an Ecclesiastical meeting? certainly the actions which the company doth when they are met, and the end for which they meet. I give an instance in Acts 19 41. the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 (the like I say of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉) signifieth not the Church of Christ, and why? it is a reason that cannot be controlled. They were assembled for to raise a tumult against Paul which was no Church-action, and so no Church end is here. So v. 39 But if you inquire any thing in other matters, it shall be determined 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in a lawful assembly; surely the end of such an assembly in Ephesus, where this man was Town-Clark in the meeting, could be. no church-business, Hence we are led to know what 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, an Assembly or Church signifieth here not the Church of Christ, so Psal. 22. 16. the Assembly of the wicked hath enclosed me 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Merighem the seventy Interpreters turn it 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, and T●rtullian followeth them, the persons congregated, the actions and end for which they convenc lead us to this, that the Word signifieth not a Church of Christ. So we may see, Psal. 26. 5. the Congregation of Elders cannot be a true Church, 2. 1 Cor. 11. 18. for first when you come together to the Church, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, I hear there are divisions amongst you. The place must signify the Church of Believers, because the end of their meeting was the Supper of the Lord, or their communion, v. 20. as the Text cleareth, and 1 Cor. 14. 23. when the whole Church cometh together, that was for prophesying and hearing of the Word, as the Text is evident, v. 16, 17, 18, 23, 24, 25 26, 27. and therefore here the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 must signify the Church of Pastors preaching, and people hearing the Word, praying and praising God. So in the third place when 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, the Church is convened to bind and lose, and to excommunicate, as Mat. 18. 17. 18. 19 there is no necessity that the Word Church, should include those who have no power of the keys, and cannot by power of the Keys bind and lose. And therefore from the naked and mere Grammar of the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, no argument can be drawn to prove that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Matth. 18. 17. must signify that same which it doth signify, 1 Corin. 1. 1. 1 Corin. 11. 18. 1 Corin. 14. 23. for the word actu primo, and originally, signifieth any meeting, but the persons who are Congregated and the end for which they meet leadeth us to the meaning and Grammatical sense of the word, in that place. Now Matth. 18. the Ecclesia, a Church Congregated there is such as bindeth and looseth in Heaven and Earth, and congregated for that use: therefore I see not how the circumstances of the place helping us to the Grammatical sense of the word here, as in all other places, doth not enforce us to say in this place Mat. 18. the word Ecclesia, Church, must signify only those who have power to bind and lose, that is, only the Elders, and not the people. So to come to the place, 1 Cor. 5. Those who come under the name of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, congregated together, must be expounded by the persons Office, and the end of their meeting, now the persons Office is Ministerial, he will have them congregated by Paul's Ministerial spirit, and in the name and with the power of the Lord Jesus, this is the power of the Keys, which he who hath David's Keys Esai. 22. 22. on his Shoulders, Revel. 3. 7. giveth to his own Officers, Matth. 16. 19 and these persons cannot be all that he writeth unto v. 1. all that were puffed up, and mourned not at the offence given by the incestuous 〈◊〉, to jesus Christ's holy Nam● and Church, all who are to forbear eating and drinking with excommunicated persons, vers. 11. all who were in danger to be leavened, verse 6. all who were to keep the Feast in sincerity, not with the old Leaven of wickedness and malice: for these directly were the whole multitude of Believers, Men, Women, and Children, who (I am sure) were not capable of the Keys and the Ministerial power of Paul. 2. The end wherefore these 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 who were convened, did meet and convene, was, vers. 5. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. to deliver the man to Satan, they were not convened to celebrate the Lords Supper, as the Church is convened, 1 Cor. 11. 18. nor for hearing the Word of Prophecy, or Preaching, as 1 Cor. 14. 23, 24. And whether you construe the Words 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 with the Power of the Lord jesus, with the Verb 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, to deliver to Satan, or with the Participle 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 congregated in the Name and Power of CHRIST, all is one; the multitude of common Believers, of Men, Women, and Children, are neither capable of the power, nor of the exercise of that power to deliver to Satan. And therefore this meeting together, by no Grammar doth lead us to say that the sentence was to be pronounced in face and presence of the multitude convened, vers. 21. Giving, but not granting that the Church of Corinth, in all its members, must be convened. Though I hold it not necessary by this place, yet it followeth not that all other acts of Jurisdiction must be exercised in face of the whole Congregation: for there is a special reason of the pronouncing of the sentence, which is not in other acts: the pronouncing of the sentence, concerneth more the nearest Congregation of which the Delinquent is a member, in relation of nearest and daily Communion, it concerneth also other Congregations of the Classical Church, of which also the Delinquent is a member, but not so immediately and nearly, because (as I said before) the more universal the Church visible is, the external visible Communion is l●sse; even as when the number of a Family is cut off, by the Sword of the Magistrate, the matter first and more intimately and more nearly concerneth the Family whereof he is a Member, yet it doth also concern the Commonwealth, of which also he is a Member. A Finger of the right Hand is infected with a contagious Gangrene, it is to be cut off; yet the cutting-off concerneth more nearly the right Hand, than it doth the left Hand, and the whole Body. For the contagion should first overspread the right Hand and Arm, and Shoulder, before it infect the left Hand, and the whole Body; though it do not a little concern the whole Body also. So though actual Excommunication concern all the Churches of the Presbytery: yet it doth more nearly concern the Congregation whereof he is a Member. 2. The pronouncing of the sentence being edificative, it is a fit mean to work upon others, but calling and trying of witnesses, and Juridical decerning of a Man to be Excommunicated, requiring secrecies, yea and some scandals, and circumstances of Adultery, Incest, Pestiality, requiring a modest covering of them, from Virgins, young Men, Children and the multitude, we have no warrant of GOD, that they should be tried before the whole multitude, nor are acts of Jurisdiction for their excellency, to be brought forth before the people but for their nearness of concernment, and use of edification. Object. 12. The people are to consent, yea they must have a power, and some thing more than a consent in Excommunication; Ergo, they are all to be present. The antecedent is proved, 1. Because they were not puffed up, they did not keep the Feast, they did not dostaine from eating with the incestuous person, only by consent. 2. Others not of that Church did excommunicate by consent. 3. It is said, v. 12, do ye not judge them that are within? Answ. If you will have them to excommunicate the same way, that they do other duties, you may say they excommunicate the same way that Pastors and Elders do, and if they Judge, vers. 12. as the Elders do, either all the people are Judges, and where are then all the governed, if all be governor's? or than he speaketh in this Chapter to the Churches-Iudges only. 2. There be degrees of consent, these of other Churches have a tacit and remote consent, the people of the Congregation are to hear, and know the cause, and deal in private with the offender, and to mourn, and pray for him. Object. 13. The highest and double honour is due to him who laboureth in the word, 1 Tim. 5. 17. but if the Presbyterial Church be the highest Church, it shall not have the double honour, for it is only the governing Church. Answ. Highest honour is due in suo genere, to both. And this is, as if you should compare obedience and honour, that I owe to my Father with that which I owe to my grandfather, 2. Paul, 1 Tim. 5. 17. compareth Elders of divers sorts together; as the Ruling and Teaching Elder, here you compare Pastors to be honoured in respect of one act, with themselves to be honoured in respect of another act; and this might prove, I am to give more honour to my Pastor for preaching in the Pulpit, then for ruling in the Church-Senate. Object. 14. The Congregation is the highest Church, for it hath all the Ordinances, Word, Sacraments, Jurisdiction; Ergo, there is not any Presbyterial Church higher which hath only disciplinary power. Answ. There is a double highness, one of Christian Dignity. 2. Another, of Church-prehemenency, or of Ecclesiastical authority: indeed the Congregation, the former way, is highest, the company of Believers is the Spouse and ransomed Bride of Christ. But the Eldership hath the Ecclesiastical eminency; as the King's heir and Son is above his Master and Teacher one way, yet the Teacher (as the Teacher by the fifth Commandment) is above the King's Son as the Teacher is above him who is taught; And so is the Case here. Object. 15. The Arguments for a Classical, or Presbyterial Church do much side with Prelacy; for you make many Lords ruling and not teaching. Answ. Let all judge whether the independent power of three Elders accountable to none, in a Churchway, but to jesus Christ only, as you make your little Kingdoms on Earth, be nearer to the Pope's Monarchy, and especially when there is but one Pastor in the Congregation, than the subordinate Government of fourscore, or an hundred Elders● sure I am, three Neighbours are nearer to one Monarch, than three hundred. 2. One Monarchical Society is as tyrannical Antichristianism as one Monarchical Pastor. 3. If we made many ruling and domineering Lords, you should say something; but we make many servants endued only with Ministerial power, only to teach and rule, and to be accountable to the Church; your Eldership in this agreeth with the Pope, that though they deliver many Souls to Satan, yet no Man on Earth can, in a Churchway, say, What do you? ACT. XV. A Pattern of a juridical Synod. THat the Apostles in that famous Synod, Act. 15. did not go on by the assistance of an immediately inspired spirit and by Apostolic authority, but only, as Elders, and the Doctors and Teachers assisted with an ordinary spirit, to me is evident from the course of the context. 1. Because Act. 15. when a controversy arise in the Church ●● Antiochia, a Epiphanius haer. 26. al●●s 28 Epiphanius saith, as also b Hieronymus Epist. 89. Hieronymus, by C●●mbus, and others, touching the keeping of Moses his Law, especially the Ceremonies, except they would be losers in the business of their salvation, Paul could not go as sent by Ami●h to submit that Doctrine, which he received not from flesh and blood, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ, Gal. 1. 12. to the determination of a Synod of Apostles and Elders for who would think that the immediately inspiring spirit i● P●ul, would submit himself, and his Doctrine to the immediately inspiring spirit in Paul, Peter, Apostles, and Elders, therefore Paul and Birnabas, come as sent to Jerusalem, not ●● Apostles, or as immediately inspired, but as ordinary teach●●. Therefore saith c Diodatus, au in Act. 15. Diodatus, Not because these two A● 〈…〉 were every wayequall to the rest in the light and conduct 〈◊〉 Spirit, and in Apostolical authority, Gal. 2. 6. 8. had any 〈◊〉 instruction, or of confirmation, but only to give the weak 〈◊〉, who had more confidence in Peter and James, and in the Church at Jerusalem, and to stop false doctors mouths, and to esta●●●●, by common votes, a general order in the Church. Hence when a controversy ariseth in the Apostolic Church, and the Controversy is betwixt an Apostle as Paul was, and others, and both sides allege Scripture, as here both did, out of all controversy, there is no reason, that the Apostle Paul, who was now a party should judge it: and when a single Congregation in the like case is on two sides, about the like question, nature, reason and Law cry that neither can be judge, and therefore a Synod is the divine and Apostolic remedy which must condemn the wrong side, as subverters of souls, as here they do, v. 24. And the Apostle when he will speak and determine as an Apostle, he taketh it on him in another manner, as Gal. 5. 2. Behold I Paul say unto you, that if you be circumcised Christ shall profit you nothing; he speaketh now as an immediately inspired penman and organ infallible of the holy Ghost: but it were absurd to send the immediately inspired organ of the holy Ghost as such, to ask counsel and seek resolution from the immediately inspired organs of the holy Ghost. 2. The rise of controversies in a Church is not Apostolic, nor temporary or extraordinary, but to ordinary we have the Scriptures indeed to consult with, so had the Churches, whose souls were notwithstanding subverted, v. 24. and this assembly doth determine the controversy by Scripture, v. 14. Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, etc. v. 15. And to this agree the words of the Prophets, as it is written, etc. But because Scriptures may be alleged by both sides, as it was here, and we have not the Apostles now alive to consult withal, can Jesus Christ have left any other external and Church-remedy, when many Churches are perverted, as here was the cases of the Churches of the Gentiles, v. 23. in Antioch, Syria, and Cilicia, than that Teachers and Elders be sent to a Synod to determine the question according to the Word of God? 2. Here also is a Synod and a determination of the Church of Antioch, v. 2. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, They determined to send Paul and Barnabas to Jerusalem: I prove that it was a Church determination, for Chap. 14. 26. Paul and Barnabas come to Antioch; v. 24. And when they were come, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, having gathered together the Church of Antioch, they rehearsed all that God had done by them, and how he had opened the door of faith unto the Gentiles, (28. And there they abode a long time with the disciples) Chap. 15. 1. And certain m●n which came down from judea, taught the brethren, Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye c●●●● be saved; hence v. 2. when there was much debate about the question, and it could not be determined there, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, they made a Church-ordinance to send Paul and Barnabas as Church-messengers, o● Church-Commissioners to the Synod, and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 relateth to 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the gathered together Church, Chap. 14. v. 27. and it is ●eare, ●. 3. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, being sent on their way by the Church, to 〈◊〉 of Antiach: Ergo, this was an authoritative Church sending, and not an Apostolic journey performed by Paul as an Apostle, but as a messenger of the Church at Antioch, and as a messenger Paul returneth with Barnabas and giveth a due reckoning and account of his commission to the Church of Antioch, who sent him, v. 30. So when they, (Paul and Barnabas having received the determination of the Synod) w●en they were dismissed, they came to Antioch, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, which words are relative to Chap. 14. 27. having gathered together the Church, and to Chap. 15. 3. being sent on their way by the Church, so here having gathered the whole Church, the multitude, they delivered the Epistle of the Synod, and read it in the hearing of all the multitude, for it concerned the practice of all whereas it was 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the Church which sent them, Cb. 14. 27. Ch. 15. 2. 3. So here we have a subordination of Churches and Church-Synod, for the Synod or Presbytery of Antioch, called the Church con●eened, Ch. 14. 27. and the Church ordaining and enacting that Paul and Barnabas shall be sent as Commissioners to Jerusalem, is subordinate to the greater Synod of Apostles and Elders at Jerusalem, which saith to me that controversies in an interior Church-meeting are to be referred to an higher meeting con●●ting of more. 3. The 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, this dissension and disputation between Paul and B●rnabas, and some of the believing Jews who taught the brethren they behoved to be circumcised, was a Church-entroversie; Paul and Barnabas did hold the negative, and defended the Church of the brethren from embracing such wicked opinions; and when Antioch could not determine the question, Paul and Barnabas had recourse to a Synod, as ordinary Shepherds, who when they could not persuade the brothers of the falsehood of the doctrine, went to seek help against subverters of souls, (as they are called, v. 24.) at the established judicatures and ecclesiasticail meetings; for when Paul's preaching cannot prevail, though it was canonical, he descendeth to that course which ordinary Pastors by the light of nature should do, to seek help from a College of church-guide; Ergo, Paul did not this merely as an Apostle. 4. Vers. 6. The Apostles & Elders came together in an assembly, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, to consider of this matter This Synodical consideration upon the Apostles part, was either Apostolic, or it was Ecclesiastic. It was not Apostelick, because the Apostles had Apostolically considered of it before, Paul had determined v. 2. against these subverters, that they should not be circumcised, nor was it a thing that they had not fully considered before, for to determine this was not so deep a mystery as the mystery of the Gospel; now he saith of the Gospel, 〈◊〉. 1. 13. I received it not of men, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ, v. 16. When it ples'ed God to reveal his son to me that I should preach him among the heathen, I conferred not with flesh and blood, neither went I up to Jerusalem to them that were Apostles before me, etc. then far less did he confer with Apostles and Elders, as touching the ceremonies of Moses his Law. If any say, this was an Ecclesiastic meeting, according to the matter, Apostolic, but according to the form, Ecclesiastic, in respect the Apostles and Elders meet to consider how this might be represented to the Churches as a necessary duty in this case of scandal; This is all we crave, and the decree is formally ecclesiastic, and so the Apostles gave out the decree in an ecclesiastical way, and this consideration Synodical is an ecclesiastical discussion of a controversy which concerned the present practice of the Churches, and it not being Apostolic must oblige many Churches convened in their principal guides, otherwise we agree that the matter of every ecclesiastical decree, be a scriptural truth, or then warranted by the evident light of nature. 5. The manner of the Apostles proceeding in this council holdeth forth to us that it was not Apostolic, because they proceed by way of communication of counsels. 1. What light could Elders add to the Apostles as Apostles, but the Elders as well as the Apostles, convened to consider about this matter, and Act. 21. 18. 25. All the Elders of Jerusalem with James take on them these acts as well as the Apostles, and they are the decrees of the Elders no less than of the Apostles, Act. 16. ●. 4. a derivation of the immediate impi●ing Spirit to ●●● Elders, and by them as fellow-members of the Synod to the Apostles, and a derivation of this immediate Apostolic spirit, by the Apostles to the Elders to make them also infallible, is unknown to Scripture; for one Prophet did not immediately inspire another, and one Apostle did not immediately inspire another, we read not in the Word of any such thing, and therefore it is said, Act. 15. 7. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, And when there had been much disputing Peter s●●d up. All who interpret this place say, even Papists not ex●pted, as Salmero come. in 〈◊〉 Salmeron, L●●mus ●. Lorinus, Cornelius a leapt. Cornelius a lapide, and others on the place, that when there is not consultation and disputing on both sides to find out the truth, but an absolute authority used by commanding, the proceeding of the council is rash (saith Salmeron;) now the Prophets were immediately inspired, without any consultation with men in delivering Gods will, and they saw the visions of God, as it is said. And the Word of the Lord came to Jeremiah, to Ezechiel, to Hosea, etc. and be said, etc. yea when a prophetical spirit came upon Ba●●m, Num. 24. be seeing the visions of God, he prophesied directly contrary to his own carnal mind, and to his consultation with Bal●●k: now it is clear that the Apostles, what they spoke, by the breathe and inspirations of that immediately inspiring Spirit is no less cannonick Scripture, than the prophecies of the immediately inspired Prophets, who saw the visions of God, and therefore 2 Pet. 1. 16, 17, 18, the voice that the Apostles heard from heaven, This is my beloved Sonn● in whom I am well pleased, is made equal with the word of prophesy and prophetical Scripture, which the holy men of God spale, ● they were moved by the holy Ghost, v. 19, 20, 21. and 2 Pet. 3. 16. Paul's Epistles are put in the class with other Scriptures, v. 15, 16. now all Scripture, 2 Tim. 3. 16. is given by divine inspiration, and 2 Peter 3. 2. putteth the words of the Prophets and Apostles in the same place of divine authority, 2 Pet. 3. 2. That ye be mindful of the words which were spoken before, by the holy Prophets, and of the commandments of us the Apostles of the Lord and Saviour, whence to me this synodical consultation is not Apostolical, but such as is obligatory of the Churches to the end of the world, and a pattern of a general Synod. 6. This assembly is led by the holy Spirit, as is clear, v. 25. 28. but this is not the holy Spirit immediately inspiring the Apostles as Apostles, but that ordinary Synodical spirit (to borrow that expression) that is promised to all the faithful pastors and rulers of the Church to the end of the world: because the immediately inspiring spirit coming on Prophets and Apostles in an immediate inspiration, did necessitate the Prophets and Apostles to acquiesce, and prophesy, and to do and speak whatsoever this spirit inspired them to do, and to speak: but this spirit spoken of, v. 28. doth not so, but leaveth the assembly to a greater liberty, because the assembly doth not acquiesce to that which Peter saith from God's Word, v. 7, 8, 9, 10, 11. nor doth the Assembly acquiesce to what Barnabas and Paul saith, v. 12. but only to that which James saith, v. 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18. but especially to his conclusion which he draweth from the Law of nature, not to give scandal, and from the Scriptures cited by himself, and by Peter, v. 19, 20. Wherefore my sentence is, saith James, etc. and this clearly is the sentence of James as a member of the Synod, v. 19 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, which is an expression clearly insinuating that the judgement of James, though it was not contrary to that which Peter, Paul, and Barnabas had spoken, yet that is was somewhat divers from them, and more particular, and the very mind of the holy Ghost which the whole Synod followed; and therefore though Peter and Paul spoke truth, yet did they not speak that truth, which did compose the controversy, and this is to me an argument that they all spoke, as members of the Synod, and not as Apostles. 7. The immediately inspired Apostolic Spirit, though it may discourse and infer a conclusion from such and such premises, as Paul doth, Rom. 3. 28. and he proveth from the Scripture, Rom. 4. 4. 5. 6. that we are justified by saith without works, and 1 Tim. 5. 17. 18. and Act. 9 22. Act. 24. 14. 17. and so doth Christ reason and argument from Scripture, Matth. 22. 31. Luk. 24. 25, 26, 27. and so have both the Prophets and Apostles argued, yet the immediately inspired Spirit of God in arguing doth not take help by disputing one with another. and yet doth not obtain the conclusion in hand, but here Pe●●● and Paul argue from Scripture, and they prove indeed a true conclusion that the Gentiles should not keep Moses his Law, as they would be saved, yet they did not remove the question, nor satisfic the consciences of the Churches, in their present practice, for if James had not said more, than the Churches had not been sufficiently directed in their practice by the Synod, and for all that Peter and Paul said, the Churches might have ea●●n meats offered to Idols, and blood, and things strangled, which at that time had been a sin against the Law of nature, and a great stumbling block, and a scandalising of the Jews. Except therefore we say that the Apostles intending as Apostles to determine a controversy in the Church, they did not determine it, which is an injury to that immediately inspiring spirit that led the Apostles in penning Scripture, we must say that Peter, Paul, and James here spoke as members of an eccle●iasticall Synod, for the Church's after-imitation. 8. If the Apostles here as Apostles give out this decree, than it would seem that as Apostles, by virtue of the immediately inspiring spirit, they sent messengers to the Churches, for one spirit directeth all, and by this Text, we should have no warrant from the Apostles practise, to send messengers to satisfy the consciences of the Churches, when they should be troubled with such questions: now all our Divines and reason doth evince that a Synod may by this Text send messengers to resolve doubting Churches, in points dogmatic; for what the Apostles do as Apostles, by that power by which they writ canonic Scripture, in that we have no warrant to imitate them. 9 I propounded another argument before, which prevaileth much with me; The Elders of an ordinary Presbytery and Churches, such as convened at this Synod cannot be collateral actors with the immediately inspired Apostles for the penning of Canonic Scripture, but in this Synod not only Elders, but the whole Church, as our reverend brethren teach, were actors in penning this decree, Act. 15. 28. Ergo, this decree is Synodical, not Apostolic. I have heard some of our reverend brethren say, all were not actors in the decree, pari gradu authoritatis, with a like degree: and equal authority, every one according to their place did concur in forming this decree. I answer, it cannot be said that all in their own degree saw the visions of God, and all in their own degree were immediately inspired to be penmen of Canonic Scripture, for Paul in penning this, The cloak that I left at Troas bring with thee, and the Parchmen●s, was no less immediately inspired of God, then were the Prophets, who saw the visions of God, and then when he penned the, 1 Tim. 1. 15. That Jesus Christ came into the world to s●●● sinners; except we flee to a Popish distinction which Duvallius and Jesuits hold, that all and every part, tota Scriptura, and totum Scripturae, is not given by divine inspiration, because (say they) the Apostles spoke and wrote some things in the New Testament as immediately inspired by God, as did the Prophets, but they spoke and wrote other things 〈◊〉 necessary, with an inferior and Apostolic or Synodical spirit, which the Pe●e and Church may decree in Synods to ●ee received with the like faith and subjection of conscience, as if the Apostles had written them. 2. You must say there was two holy 〈◊〉 the penning of the decree, one immediately inspiring the Apostles, another inferior assisting the Elders; or at 〈◊〉 divers and most different acts of that same ho●y 〈…〉 way inspiring the Apostles, and in a fallible way, inspiring the Elders. But with your leave, Act. 21. 24. The ordinary I●es●ytery at jerusalem, by that same Synodical spirit, by which they ordain Paul to purify himself, do ascribe to themselves this decree, v. 25. 3. We de●ire a warrant from God's Word, of commixion of immediately inspired Apostles as immediately inspired with Elders, assisted with an ordinary spirit, for the p●●ning of Scripture. 10. We think the Presbytery of Jerusalem as an ordinary Presbytery, Act. 21. 18. and contradivided from the Church of Jrusalem, v. 22. The multitude must needs come together, for they hear that thou art come, did ordain Paul to purify himself, and it is clear Paul otherwise would not have purified himself, and therefore he did not by the immediately inspired spirit purify himself, and obey their decree, which was grounded upon the Law of nature, not to scandalise weak believers, v. ●0, 21. and bt this same holy spirit did Paul with other of the Apostles write this decree, as is clear v. 25. 11. If the Apostles did all in this Synod as immediately inspired by God, then should the Synod have followed the determination of any one Apostle, of Peter and Paul, as well as of 〈◊〉, for the immediately inspiring spirit is alike perfect in all ●●s determinations, but it is said expressly, v. 22. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, etc. Then it seemed good to the Apostles, etc. and so to 〈◊〉, and Peter, and Paul, to follow the sentence of James, 〈◊〉 the rest of the Apostles; now if James spoke as an immediately inspired Apostle, and not by virtue of that Synodical Spirit given to all faithful Pastors convened in a lawful Synod, then should James have acquiesced to what Peter and Paul aid, and not to what he said himself, and Peter should have acquiesced to what he said, and Paul to what he said, ●● every inspired writer is to obey what the immediately inspiring Spirit saith, and then there was no reason why the Synod should rather acquiesce to what Peter and Paul said who spoke of no abstinence from blood and things strangled, then to what James said, Ergo, by the Apostles consequence, v. 24. (we gave ●● such commandment, that you must be circumcised, Ergo, you should not be circumcised) so this consequence is good, Peter and Paul speaking as Apostles gave no commandment in this Synod to abtaine from blood, Ergo, by the like consequence the Synod was not to command n● abstinence from blood, which consequence is absurd, Ergo, they command not here as Apostles, 2. The Synod should have been left in the midst to doubt, whether shall we follow Paul and Peter, who speak and command n● abstinence from blood and things strangled, o● shall we follow James, who commandeth to abstain from blood and things 〈◊〉, for all here command as immediately inspired Apostles, and what the Apostles judge lawful and command as Apostles, that must the Churches follow, and what they command not, that by an immediately inspiring Spirit they command not, as is clear, v. 24. and that also must the Churches not follow, therefore I think we must say they did not here speak as Apostles. 12. These words, v. 24. Some who pervert your souls say, you must be circumcised, and keep the Law, to whom we gave no such commandment) do clearly hold forth what the Apostles as Apostles command in God's worship that the Churches must do, what the Apostles as Apostles command not, in God's worship, that the Churches must not do whence they teach, 1. That an Apostolic commandment of any one Apostle without any Synod might have determined the question, to what use then doth a Synod conduce? Ergo, certainly either the Synod was convened for no use, which is contrary to God's Word, Act. 25. 2. 6. Act. 16. 4. 5. it served to resolve the controversy and edify the Churches, Act. 16. 4. They delivered them the decrees, etc. 5. And so the Churches were established in the saith, and increased in number daily, or then the Synodical commandment, and so the Synodical spirit spoken of v. 28. must be some other thing then the Apostolical commandment, and the immediately inspiring spirit. 2. The Apostles gave no positive commandment to keep Moses his Law as Apostles, nay nor to keep any part of it, they did not as Apostles forbid, before this Synod, that the Gentiles should abstain from blood, and things strangled, which were Mosaical Laws before this Synod, yet now they give a commandment to keep some Mosaical Laws, in the case of scandal; hence we must either judge that now as Apostles they command in positive commandments the keeping of Moses his Law, contrary to what they say, for their not commanding to keep Moses his Law is a commanding not to keep it, (observe this) or then their commandment here is but synodical and so far binding as the case of scandal standeth in vigour, which certainly a Synod may command, and one Church may enjoin, by way of counsel, to another, for otherwise as Apostles forbidding scandal, which is spiritual homicide, they forbid also eating of blood, in that case when it stood indifferent. 3. The Apostles saying, To whom we gave no such commandment, they clearly insinuate that their commandment as Apostles de jure, should have ended the controversy, but now for the edification and after-example of the Churches they took a Synodical way. 13. The way of the Apostles speaking seemeth to me Synodical, and not given out with that divine and Apostolical authority, that the Apostles may use in commanding: it is true, they use lovely and swasory exhortations in their writing, but this is a 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 a decree, not an exhortation, now James saith, 1●. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is set down as his private opinion, with reverence to what Peter and Paul saith, and v. 7. Peter when many had disputed and spoken before him, standeth up and speaketh, and v. 12. Barnabas and Paul, after the multitude is ●●nt doth speak, which to me is a Synodical order, and the whole Synod, v. 28. say, It seemed good to us. They answer. 1. Consociated Churches have some power in determining of dogmatic points, but this is no power of jurisdictim. The seventh Proposition to which almost all the Elders of New England agreed, saith; The Synod bathe no Church-power, but the cause enimeth with the Church. Corpus cum causa, the Church-body, and the cause which concerneth the Church-body, do remain together, ●nd therefore quaestio defertur ad Synodum, causa manet penes eccleiam, the question is brought to the Synod, the cause remaineth with the Church. Another Manuscript of Godly and learned Divines I saw, which saith; That the ministerial power of applying of the rules of the word and Canons to persons and things from time to time, as the occasions of the Church shall require, pertaineth to, and may be exercised by each particular Church, without any necessary dependence on other Churches, yet in difficile cases we ought (say they) to consult with, and seek advise from presbyteries and ministers of 〈◊〉 Churches, and give so much authority to a concurrence of judgements as shall, and aught to be an obligation to us, not to depart from any such resolutions, as they shall make upon any consideration but where in conscience, and hence our peace with God is apparently concerned. Answ. I perceive, 1. That our brethren cannot endure that a Synod should be called a Church; but 1. I verily think that when Paul and Barnabas, Act. 15. 1, 2. had much dissension with those who taught, you must be circumcised after the manner of Moses, that the Church of Antioch resolved to tell the Church, that is the Synod, while as they fall upon this remedy, v. 2. They determined that Paul and Barnabas and certain other of them, 〈◊〉 go up to Jerusalem unto the Apostles and Elders, about this question, that is, that the Church of Antioch, (when the subver●ers of souls would not hear their brethren of Antioch) did tell the Synod convened at Jerusalem, that is, according to our ●viours order, Ma●●●. 18. 17. they did tell the Church: and my reason is, if the Church at Antioch could not satisfy the consciences of some who said, you must be circumcised, else you cann●x in saved, they could not, nor had they power, in that cast not to go on, but were obliged to tell the Synod, that is, the Church, whom it concerned as well as Antioch: for if they had sent the matter to the Synod as a question, not as a cause proper to the Synod, or Church; then when the Synod had resolved the question, the cause should have returned to the Church of Antioch, and been determined at Antioch, as in the proper court, if that hold true, the question is deferred to the Synod, the cau●e remaineth with the body, the Church; but the cause returned never to the Church of Antioch, but both question and cause was determined by the Synodicall-Church, Act. 15 v. 22. 23, 24. and the determination of both question and cause ended in the Synod, as in a proper court, and is imposed as a commandment and a Synodical Canon, to be observed both by Antioch, v. 25, 26, 27, 28, 29. and other Churches, Act. 16. 4, 5. Ergo, either the Church of Antioch lost their right, and yet kept Christ's order, Matth. 18. 15, 16, 17. or the question and cause in this case belongeth to a Synod. 2. It is said expressly, ●. 22. It pleased t● Apostles, Elders, and the whole Church to send chosen men of their own company to Antioch, etc. What Church was this? the whole Church of believers, or the fiaternitie at Jerusalem; (say our brethren) but with leave of their godliness and learning no, say ●. 1. What reason that the Church of all believers men and women of Jerusalem, should the jure, have been present to give either consent or surfrage there: because it concerned then practise and conscience, but I say it concerned as much, if not more, the conscience and practice of the Church of Antioch, if not more, for the cause was theirs (say our brethrens) and cause ad corpus (say they) quaestio ad synodum, and it concerned as much the practice and conscience of all the Churches, who were to observe these decrees, Act 16. 4. 5 Act. 21. 25. yet they were not present. If the multitude of believers of Jerusalem was present, because they were 〈…〉 to the Synod, whereas Antioch & other 〈…〉 were nor off, were not present, but in their commissioners, than I say the Church ●● the multitude of Jerusalem, whose commidic●●●s were here 〈◊〉; I say the multitude was present ●uely the 〈◊〉 not 〈◊〉 nor was there more law for their presence, then ●or all other Churches, who also in conscience were obliged to obey the counsel's determinations: but I, dear a warrant that the fact of the Synod, such as was sending of the decrees and Commissioners with the decrees to Antioch, should be ●●●●ibed to the multitude of believers at Jerusalem, who by no Law of God were present at the Synod, and by no Law of God 〈◊〉 more consent than the Church of Antioch, and were present 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, and by accident, because they dwelled in the 〈◊〉 where the Synod did sit, therefore say I, the 〈◊〉 Church in the whole Synod. 2. By what Law can Jerusalem a sister Church have influence or consent de jure, in sending binding Acts, as these were, as is clear, v. 28. Ch. 16. 4, 5. Ch. 21. 25. to the Church of Antioch? for this is an authoritative sending of messengers, and the Canons to the Church of Antioch, as is evident, v. 2 2. 3. It is utterly denied that the Church of Jerusalem, I mean the multitude of believers, could meet all at one Synod. 4. The word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, v. 12. which is said to hold their peace, is referred to the Apostles and Elders met Synodically, v. 6. and is not the multitude of believers. 5. Where are these who are called Elders, not Apostles, they are ever distinguished from the Apostles, as Act. 15. 2. v. 6. v. 22. Act. 16. 4. Act. 21. 18. 25. ●are is no reason that they were all Elders of Jerusalem, for 〈◊〉 can Elders of one sister Church impose Laws, burdens, ●28 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 decrees, Ch. 16. 4. upon sister Churches? or h●w can they pen canonical Scripture jointly with the Apostles? Some of our brethren say so much of those degrees, that they obliged formally the Churches as Scriptures do oblige: the learned Junius saith well, that the Apostles did nothing as Apostles where there was an ordinary and established Eldery●● in the Church; therefore those Elders behoved to be the 〈◊〉 of Antioch, for Act. 17. v. 2. 〈…〉 Commissioners were 〈◊〉 from Antioch then Paul and 〈…〉. I think also the Churches of Cyria and 〈◊〉 〈…〉 there, as well as Antioch, and de jure, 〈…〉 should have been there; The case was theirs every way the same with the Church of Antioch, and their souls subverted, v. 24. 6. Those who are named v. 22. Apostles, Elders, and the whole Church are called v. 25. Apostles, and Elders, and Brethren, and elsewhere always Apostles and Elders (Elders including brethren, or the whole Church, v. 22. of some chosen men, and brethren) as Act. 13. 2. v. 6. Ch. 16. 4. Act. 21. 18. 25. 2. I desire to try what truth is here, that this Synod but power and authority in points dogmatic, but no Church-power (saith the seventh proposition of the reverend and godly Brethren of New England) and no power of jurisdiction, but the Church of Antioch had Church-power and power of jurisdiction to determine this cause and censure the contraveeners, as our Brethren say. But I assume, this Synod took this Church-power off their hand, and with the joint power of their own Commissioners sent from Antioch, v. 2. v. 22. 23. determined both cause and controversy, and it never returned to any Church-Court at Antioch, as is clear, v. 25, 26, 27, 28. Ergo, this Synod had a Church-power. 2. A power and authority dogmatic to determine in matters of doctrine is a Church-power proper to a Church, as is granted by our brethren, and as we prove from, Act. 20. 29. This is a part of the oversight committed to the Eldership of Ephesus, to take heed to men rising amongst themselves speaking perverse things, that is, teaching false doctrine; and if they watch over them, as members of their Church (for they were v. 30. men of their own) they were to censure them. 2. If Pergamus be rebuked, Re●el. 2. 14. 15. and threatened with the removing of their Candlestick, because they had amongst them those who held the doctrine of Balaam, and the doctrine of the Nicolaitans, hated by Christ himself, and did not use the power of jurisdiction against them▪ then that Church which hath power dogmatic to judge of doctrine, hath power also of jurisdiction to censure those who hold the false doctrine of Balaam, and v. 20. Christ saith to Thyatira. Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 because thou suff●●● that woman Jesabel, which calleth herself a Prophetess, to teach and to sedu●e my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrified to Idols. Hence I argue, what Church hath power to try the false doctrine of Jesabel, and is blamed for not censuring her, but permitteth her to teach and to seduce the servants of God, hath also power of jurisdiction against her false doctrine: this poposition I take to be evident in those two Churches of Pergamus and Thyatira. I assume: but this Synod, Act. 15. hath authority and power to condemn the false doctrine taught by subverters of souls, teaching a necessity of circumcision, in the Churches of Syria, Cilicia, Antioch, etc. Act. 15. vers. 23, 24. Therefore this Synod hath power of jurisdiction. 3. Every society which hath power to lay on burdens as here this Synod hath, v. 28. and to send decrees to be observed by the Churches, as Act. 16. 4. and to send and conclude, that they observe no such thing, and that they observe such and such things, Act. 21. 25. by the power of the holy Ghost, convened in an Assembly, 25. and judging according to God's Word, as ●. 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, etc. these have power of juridiction to censure the contraveners: but this Synod is such a society, Ergo, it hath this power. The Proposition is, Matth. 18. 18. If he refuse to hear the Church, let him be to thee as a heathen and a publican; nothing can be answered here, but because this Synod commandeth only in a brotherly way, but by no Church-power, therefore they have no power of jurisdiction. But with reverence of these learned men, this is, petitio principii, to beg what is in question; for the words are clear, a brotherly counsel and advise is no command, no 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, no decree which we must observe, and by the observing whereof the Churches are established in the faith, as is said of these decrees, Act. 16. 4, 5. To give a brotherly counsel, such as Abigail gave to David, and a little maid gave to Namaan, is not a burden laid on by the commander; but it is said of this decree, v. 28. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, It seemed good to the holy Ghost to lay no other burden on you. Also we do not say that power of jurisdiction is in provincial or national Synods as in the Churches, who have power to excommunicate; for 1. this power of jurisdiction in Synods is cumulative, not privative; 2. It is in the Synod quoad actus imperatos, potius quam act us elicitos, according to commanded rather than to elicit acts, for the Synod by an ecclesiastical power added to that intrinsical power of jurisdiction in Churches, doth command the Churches to use their power of jurisdiction rather than use it actually herself. Let me also make use of two propositions agreed upon in a Synod at New England. Their 3. proposition. The fraternity have an authoritative concurrence with the Preshyteny, in judicial Acts. 4. Proposition. The fraternity in an Organical body, actu subordinate, id est, per modum obedientiae, in subordination by way of obedience to the Presbytery in such judicial Acts, 2 Cor. 10. 6. Now if here the whole Church of Jerusalem, as they say from v. 22. was present, and joined their authoritative concurrence to these decrees, there was here in this Synod an Organical body of eyes, ears, and other members, that is, of Apostles, Teachers, Elders and people, and so a form Church by our brethren's doctrine, ●●gs, Paul and Barnabas, v. 2. being sent to this Synod by the Church of Antioch to complain, were sent to tell the form and organical Churches, as it is Matth. 18 19 which is a good argument, if not 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, as Aristotle saith, yet 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 2. If the Brethren here concur as giving obedience to the Elders, and the Apostles do here determine as Apostles and Elders, than the brothrens in this Organical body do concur to the forming of these decrees by way of obedience to the Elders ● Presbyters, and by the same reason the Elders concur by way of obedience to the Apostles, for as the Elders as Elders and above the fraternity, so the Apostles as Apostles are above the Elders: but then I much wonder how the acts are called the decrees of the Apostles and Elders jointly, Act. 16. 4. and how the Elders of jerusalem do ascribe those decrees to themselves, Act. 21. 25. and how all the assembly speak as assisted by the holy Ghost, Act. 15. 28. Shall we distinguish where the Scripture doth not only not distinguish, but doth clearly hold forth quality and an identity? But some object, that the holy Ghost, v. 28. is the immediately instiring Apostolic Spirit● and so the Apostles must here concur in giving out those decrees as Apostles, not as ordinary Elders. 1. Is Peter and Paul allege Scripture and testimonies of God's Spirit in this Syned, as Elders, not as Apostles, than they reason in the Synod as falli●● men, and men who may err, but that is impossible; for if they 〈◊〉 Scripture, as men who may err, the Scripture which they al●●dge 〈◊〉 be fallible. Answ. Though the Apostles here reason as Elders, not as Apostles, I see no inconvenience to say they were men who might ●re, though as led with the holy Ghost, they could not err in this Syned following the conduct of the holy Ghost, as is said, ●. 28. though the holy Ghost there be only the ordinary holy Ghost given to all the Pastors of Christ assembled in God's name and the authority of jesus Christ, yet in this Act and as led by this Spirit, they were not fallible, neither men who could err: for I see not how ordinary believers as led in such and such Acts by the holy Ghost, and under that reduplication can err, for they err as men in whom there is flesh and a body of corruption, and therefore, though both Apostles and Elders, modaliter, might err, as Logic saith; Aposta●●s err are est possible, yet de facto, in this they could not err, being led by the holy Ghost, v. 28. and the necessity of their not erring is not absolute, but necessary by consequent, because the Spirit of God led them, as v. 28. But the reason is must, weak, if they might err, Ergo, the Scripture they allege might be fallible: for though heretics allege Scripture, and abuse it, and make it to be no Scripture, but their own fancy, while as they allege it to establish blasphemous conclusions, yet doth it no way follow that Scripture can be fallible, or obnoxious to error, but only that abused and a●● applved Scripture is not Scripture. Object. 2. If ever the Apostles were led by an infallible spirit, 〈◊〉 to be in a matter like this, which so much concerned the 〈◊〉 and consciences of all the Christian Churches amongst the Gen 〈◊〉: E●go, in this Synod they could not be led by a fallible spirit, but ●● an infallible, and so by an Apostolic Spirit. Answ. I conceive the spirit which led both Apostles and Elders in this Synod, was an infallible Spirit, but Ergo, an immediately inspiring and Apostolic Spirit, it followeth not; yea the holy Ghost of which Luke doth speak, v. 28. as the precedent and leader of this first mould of all Synods, and so the most perfect Synod, is never fallible, no not in the meanest believer, and it were blasphemy to say the holy Ghost in any can be obnoxious to error; and I think de facto, neither Apostles nor Elders could err in this Synod, because, de fact●, they followed the conduct of the holy Ghost, without any bias in judgement; but it followeth not, 1. that the men could not err, because the holy Ghost leading the men could not err, as we answer Papists who produce this same argument to prove that general counsels, and so the Church must be infallible. 2. It followeth not, Ergo, this holy Ghost was that immediately inspiring and Apostolic Spirit leading both Apostles and Elders, which is the question now in hand. Object. 3. This is a pattern of all lawful Synods, then may all lawful Synods say; It seemed good to the holy Ghost, and to us: if therefore the men might err, the leader, to wit, the holy Ghost might err, which is absurd. Answ. It followeth only that all lawful Synods should so proceed, as they may say, It seemed good to the holy Ghost and to us, and there is a wide difference betwixt Law and Fact, all are lawful Synods convened in the name and authority of Christ, and so by warrant of the holy Ghost speaking in his Word; but it followeth not (as Papists infer, and this argument proveth) that therefore all which the facto, those lawfully assembled Synods do and conclude, that they are the doings and conclusions of the holy Ghost, and that in them all, they may say, It seemed good to the holy Ghost and to us. 2. The consequence is false and blasphemous, that if all lawfully convened Synods may not say, It seemed good to the holy Ghost and us, that therefore the holy Ghost is fallible, and may err, but only that men in the Synod following their own Ghost, and spirit, can say no more but, it seemed good to our Ghost and spirit, and cannot say, it seemed good to the holy Ghost and to us: for an ordinary Pastor lawfully called and preaching sound doctrine in the power and assistance of God's spirit doth speak in that act from the holy Ghost, and yet because in other acts, wherein with Nathan and Samuel he may speak with his own spirit, see with his own eyes and light, it followeth not that he is infallible, or that the holy Ghost is infallible. Object 4 Is the Apostles did not conclude in this Synod, what they 〈…〉 an Ap s●a ●●k spirit, it shall follow that the holy Ghost 〈…〉 15. 28. is not that same holy Ghost of which Peter 〈◊〉, 2 Pet. 1. 21. But holy men of God spoke as they were moved 〈◊〉 Ghost, and if so, that holy Ghost which spoke in the Pro 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 not also speak in the Apostles. Answ. I see no necessity of two holy Ghosts, 1 Cor. 12. 4. Now 〈◊〉 ●●●●ersities of gifts, but the same Spirit, there be divers acts of the same holy Ghost, and I willingly contend that the Synodical acts of Apostles and Elders in this Synod, though coming from the holy Ghost assisting them as Elders in an ordinary Synod, v. 28. are different from the acts of that same holy Ghost as immediately inspiring the Prophets and Apostles in prophesying and penning canonic Scripture; and yet there be not two holy Ghosts, for Paul did not believe in Christ by that same spirit which immediately inspired him and the rest of the Apostles and Prophets to write canonic Scripture. ● mean it is not the same operation of the Spirit, because Paul by the holy Ghost given to all the faithful as Christians, and not given to them as canonical writers, or as Apostles or immediately inspired Prophets doth believe in Christ, love Christ, contend for the prize of the high calling of God, as is clear Rom. ●. 37, 38, 39 1 Cor. 2. 12. 16. Phil. 3. 13. 14. 1 Cor. 9 25. Yea Paul believeth not in Christ as an Apostle, but as a Christian, and yet he believeth by the grace of the holy Ghost; but ●● followeth not that the same spirit which immediately inspired the Prophets doth not immediately inspire Paul as an Apostle, and all the rest of the Apostles. Object. 5. These decrees, Act. 16. 4. are called the decrees of the Apostles and Elders, but if the Apostles in giving out these decrees gave 〈◊〉 as ordinary Elders, not as Apostles, than the sense of the words, Act. 16. 4. should be, that they were the decrees of the Elders and of the Elders, which is absued. Answ. It followeth only that they are the decrees of the Apostles who in that give them out as Elders, and as a part of the ordinary established Elders of Jerusalem. Whence if Christ promise the holy Spirit to lead his Apostles in all truth, he promiseth also the holy Spirit to all their successors, Pastors, Teachers and Elders, not only convened in a Congregationall-Church, but also in a Synod, as he maketh good his promise here, Act. 15. 28. and whereas the holy Ghost commandeth in a Synod of Apostles and Elders who are lawfully convened, by our brethren's confession, and speaketh authoritatively God's Word by the holy Ghost, Act. 15. 28. they cannot speak it as a counsel and brotherly advise only, for that a brother may do to another, a woman to a woman, Abigail to David, a maid to Naaman: we desire a warrant from God's Word, where an instituted society of Pastors and Elders convened from sundry Churches, and in that Court formally consociated and decreeing by the holy Ghost, as Act. 15. 28. against such and such heresies, shall be no other than a counsel and advise, and no Church-commandement, nor binding decree backed with this power: He that despiseth you, speaking by the holy Ghost, the Word of God, despiseth me, and whether doctrines, or canons concerning doctrine, coming from a lawful Court, convened in Christ's name, have no ecclesiastical power of spiritual jurisdiction to get obedience to their lawful decrees; for if every one of the suffrages of Elders be but a private counsel having only authority objective from the intrinsical lawfulness of the thing, and no authority official from the Pastors, because Pastors, than the whole conclusion of the Synod shall amount to no higher rate and sum then to a mere advice and counsel. If it be said, that when they are all united in a Synod, and speaking as assembled, Act. 15. 25. and speaking thus Assembled by the holy Ghost, v. 28. the authority is more than a counsel, yet not a power of Church-jurisdiction. Then 1. give us a warrant in God's Word, for this distinction. 2. We ask whether this authority being contemned, the persons or Churches contemnibg it, be under any Church-censure, or not; if they be under a Church-censure, what is this but that the Synod hath power of censure, and so power of jurisdiction? if you say non-communion is a sufficient censure. But I pray you spare me to examine this; 1. If the sentence of non-Communion be a sentence of 〈◊〉. it must proceed from a judicature that hath a 〈◊〉 of jurisdiction, but give me leave to say as all Church- 〈◊〉 have and must have warrant in God's Word, so must 〈◊〉, such as non-communion, for the ordinary Church punishments, such as public rebuking have warrant in the Word, as in 1 Tim. 5. 20. and excommunication, 1 Cor. 5. 4. 〈◊〉 1●. and the great Anathema Maranatha, 1 Cor. 16. 22. and forbearing to eat and drink with scandalous persons, 1 Cor. 5. 10, 11. withdrawing from his company, 2 Th●s. 3. 14. and I pray you where hath the Word taught us of such a bastard 〈◊〉- ensure, or if you will not allow it that name, a censure indicted by the Church or Churches, as is non-communion. May our brethren without Christ's warrant shape any punishment equivalent to excommunication without God's Word? 〈◊〉 they may as well without the Word mould us such a censure as excommunication: if they say, separation warrenth this censure of non-communion. But 2. By what Law of God can an equal give out a sentence of non-communion a 〈◊〉 an equal, an equal cannot as an equal punish, when a Christian denieth followship to another because he is excommunicated, he doth not punish as an equal, for the punisher in this case denying fellowship to the excommunicated doth 〈◊〉 an equal, but as having authority from the Church, who hath given this commandment in the very sentence of communication. 1 Cor. 5. 4. compared with v. 10, 11. Separation under a great controversy, and denied in many cases ●● the way of those who are more rigid therein, even by our 〈◊〉. 2. Christ, Matth. 18. 15, 16. will not have any brother, who 〈◊〉 but private authority and no church-authority over a bro●●●● 〈…〉 non habet potestatem) to presently renounce 〈◊〉 give up all communion with his brother, though he be 〈◊〉 before two or three witnesses, and inflict on him the sentence of non-communion, while he first tell the Church, and non-communion is inflicted on no man as if he were a heathen 〈◊〉 (to speak no thing of delivering to Satan) while he ●● conveened and judicially sentenced before the Church; 〈◊〉 our brethren's sentence of non-communion is in inflicted by an equal Church upon a ●●ster Church in a mere p●●●● way, and by no Church-proces. 4. Non-communion, if it be warranted by the law of ●●ture, as communion of equals is, yet should we not be refused of the like favour, when we plead that the Law of nature pleadeth for combination and communion of joint authorities of s●s●er-Churches, in one presbytery: for if non-communion of Churches be of the law of nature, so must communion of Churches, and authoritative communion, and authoritative and judicial non-communion, by nature's law must be as warrantable upon the same grounds. They 6. Object. ● the Apostles, were in this Synod as ordinary Elders th●n, The Synod might have censured, and in case of obstinacy excommunicated the Apostles which were admirable. Answ. For re●ukeing of Apostles we have against Papists a memorable warrant in Paul, Gal. 2. withstanding Peter to ●ce face, and Peter his giving an account, Act. 11 1, 2, 3. to the Church of Jerusalem of his going in to the Gentiles, which Parker acknowledgeth against Papists and Prelates to be a note of Peter's subjection to the Church. Papists say it was Peter's humility; other Papists say Peter gave but such a brotherly account to the Church, such as one brother is obliged to give to another: also all our Divines, and those Papists who contend that the Pope is inferior to universal counsels. doc with good warrant allege that by Matth. 18. Peter is subjected to the Church-censures, if he sin against his brother, and therefore we doubt not, but the Church hath, jus, law to excommunicate the Apostles, in case of obstinacy, and would have used this power i● Judas had lived now when the power of excommunication was in vigour; but we say withal, de facto, the supposition was impossible in respect that continued and habitual obstinacy, and flagitious and atrocious scandals deserving excommunication, were inconsistent with that measure of the holy Spirit bestowed upon those Catholic Organs and vessels of mercy: but this exempteth the Apostles from act all excommunication, de facto, but is our brethren ex●●pt them, a jure, from the Law, they transform the Apostles into Popes, above all Law, which we cannot do, Apostolic eminency doth 〈…〉 neither Peter nor Paul to be above either the 〈…〉 the 〈◊〉 Law, or the positive Laws gi' 〈…〉 One doth wittily say on these 〈…〉 Matth. 8. 15. The Pope is either a 〈…〉 if he be a brother offending, 〈…〉 complain of him to the Church, 〈…〉 be no brother, there's an end 〈…〉 his father, and never after this 〈…〉 〈…〉 in a Synod as Apostles, doth not 〈…〉 in Apostolic acts could not use Sy 〈…〉 others; 1. Because Daniel, 9 2. 〈…〉 understood by books the numb 〈…〉 Lord came to Jeremiah the 〈…〉 Paul. 1 Cor. 1. 1. and Timothi 〈…〉 and 〈◊〉, 1 Thess. 1. 1. and 3. The 〈…〉, and yet ● oph●ts and Apostles were immedi 〈…〉 which they ●●ote and spoke. Answ. 1. Daniel ●●d the Prophecy of Jeremiah, and the Pro 〈◊〉 the books of Moses, and the Apostles read the old Testament, 〈◊〉 and Paul read heathen Poets, and citeth them, Act. 17. 〈◊〉. Ti●. 1. 12. and maketh them Scripture. 2. But the question is now, if as Prophets and immediately in●●● Prophets and Apostles they did so consult with Scripture which they read, as they made any thing canonic Scripture upon 〈◊〉 medium, and formal reason, because they did read it, 〈◊〉 it out of books, and not because the immediate inspiration of the holy Ghost taught them, what they should 〈◊〉 canonic Scripture. Suppone a sentence of a heathen 〈◊〉 suppone this, that Paul left his cloak at Tro●s, not the ●●●wledge of sense, not natural reason, not experience, none ●● these can be a formal medium, a formal mean to make scripture but as, (thus saith Jehovah in his word) is the formal reason why the Church believeth the Scripture to be the Word ●● God, so the formal reason that maketh Prophets and Apostles to put down any truth, as that which is formally canonical scripture, whether it be a supernatural truth, as, the 〈◊〉 was made flesh, or a moral truth, as, Children obey your 〈◊〉, or a natural truth, as The Ox knoweth his owner, or an experienced truth, as make not friendship with an angry 〈◊〉 a truth of heathen morality, as, me are the offspring of God, or a truth of sense, Paul lest his clock at T●oas, I say the 〈◊〉, formal reason that maketh it divine and scriptural truth is the immediate inspiration of God, therefore though 〈◊〉 learned by books that the captivity should endure seventi. years, yet his light by reading made it not formally Scripture, but daniel's putting it in the Canon by the immediate acti●r, impulsion, and inspiration of the holy Spirit; and though Matthew did read in Esaiah, A Virgin shall conceive and beared Son, yet Matthew maketh it not a part of the New Testament, because Esaiah said it, but because the holy Ghost did imdiatly suggest it to him, as a divine truth: for a holy man might draw out of the Old and New Testament a Chapter of orthodox truths, all in Scripture words, and believe them to be God's truth, yet that Chapter should not formally be the Scripture. of God, because though the Author did write it by the light of faith, yet the Prophetical and Apostolical spirit did not suggest it and inspire it to the author. I know some School●. Papists have a distinction here. They say there be some sepernaturall truths in Scriptures, as predictions of things that tall out by the mediation of contingent causes, and the supernatural mysteries of the Gospel, as that Achab shall be killed in the wars, the Messiah shall be borne, etc. Christ came to 〈◊〉 sinners, and those were written by the immediately inspiring Spirit: others were but historical and natural truths of fact, as that Paul wrought miracles, that he left his cleake at Troas, and these latter are written by an inferior spirit, the assisting, not the immediately inspiring Spirit, and by this latter spirit (say they) much of Scripture was written; and from this assisting Spirit cometh the traditions of the Church (say they) and the decrees of Popes and counsels; and this holy Spirit though infallible, may and doth use disputation, consultations, counsels of Doctors, reading; but we answer that what counsels determine by an assisting spirit is not Scripture, nor yet ●m-ply infallible, nor doth Daniel advise with Jeremialis writing what he shall put down as Scripture, nor Paul with Sos●h●●●●, with Timothy and Silvamus, what he shall write as Canonic Scripture in his Epistles, for then as the decrees of the coun 〈◊〉 at Jerusalem are called the decrees of the Apostles and Elders and this decree which cometh from the Apostles and Elders assembled with one accord, and speaking with joint suffrages from the holy Ghost, v. 7, 8 9, 10, etc. v. 28. as collateral authors of the decree, is the conclusion of Apostles and Elders; so also should the prophesy of Daniel, at least the first two verses of the ninth chapter, be a part of Daniel, and a part of Jeremi●hs prophecy, and Paul's Epistles to the Corinthians should be the Epistle of Paul and S●sthe●es, and his Epistles to the Colossians, and Thessah●ian●, the Epistles of Paul, of Timothy, of Silvanus, whereas Sosthenes, Timothy, Silvanus were not immediately inspired collateral writers of these Epistles with Paul, but only joiners with him in the salutation. The erring and scandalous Churches are in a hard condition, if they cannot be edified by the power of jurisdiction in presbyteries. Object. But it never or seldom in a century falleth out, that a Church is to be excommunicated, and Christ hath provided Laws for things only that fall out ordinarily. Answ. It is true, we see not how an whole Church can be formally convented, accused, excommunicated, as one or two brethren may be, in respect all are seldom or never deserted of God to fall into an atrocious scandal, and wilful obstinacy, yet this freeth them not from the Law: as suppose in a Congregation of a thousand, if five hundreth be involved in libertinism, are they freed, because they are a multitude, from Christ's Law? or from some positive punishment by analogy answering to excommunication? 2. The Eldership of a Congregation being three only, doth not seldom scandalously offend, and are they under no power under heaven? The people may withdraw from them saith the Synod of New England, what then? so may I withdraw from any who walketh inordinately, 2. Thes. 3. 14. 15. (3) It is not well said that Christ giveth no Laws for sins that seldom fall out. What say you of Anathema Maranatha, 1 Cor. 16. 22. to be used against an Apostate from the faith, and against such as fall into the sin against the holy Ghost? I think visible professors capable both of the ●nne and the censure, yet I think it falleth seldom out, it fell seldom but that an Apostle was to be rebuked, ha● Paul then no law to rebuke Peter. Gal. 2. Object. 2. A Synod or presbytery may pronounce the d●●dfull sentence of non-communion against persons and Churches 〈…〉. Answ. But I ask, where is the power, and institution from Christ, that one private man, as he may counsel his brother, so he may by our brethren's grounds, pronounce this sentence. Object. 3. One private man may not do it, to a whole Church, ●● a classical Presbytery and a Synod hath more authority over him, than he hath over them. Answ. One private man may rebuke another, yea be may plead with his mother the whole Church, that he liveth in, for her whoredoms, Host 2. 2. But if he justly plead and his mother will not hear, may he not separate? Our brethren of New England, I think, shall be his warrant to separate; for their sixth Synodical proposition saith, the fraternity, and people are to separate from the Eldership, after they refuse wholesome counsel. Now what Scripture warranteth twenty to withdraw and separate, shall also warrant ten, and five, and one, for no reason that if twenty be careless of their salvation in the duty of separation, and shall not separate, that one man shall not separate; because a multitude doth evil, I am not to do evil with them. Object. 4. But a Synod or a classical presbytery hath more 〈◊〉 and authority, than one private man, or one single Congregation. 1. Because they are a company of Elders, to whom, as to the Priests of the Lord, whose lips should preserve knowledge, the ●●yes of knowledge, and consequently a power and Synodical authority is given, though they have no power of jurisdiction. 2. Because as a private man's power is inferior to a Pastors, so is the power of classical and Synodioall meeting of Elders above a man, or a single congregation; and a Synod, in dogmatic power, ariseth so higher than these, ●● divine institution doth fall upon it. Answ. The power of order and the key of knowledge doth elevate a Pastor, whose lips doth preserve knowledge, above a private Christian, yea as I conceive above a multitude of believers; but I would know if a Synods dogmatic power be above the power of single congregations; I think it is not, by our brethren's tenants, for they say expressly a Church. government. Answ. to qu. 14. pag. 43, 44. that every particular 〈…〉, jus, to decide dogmatic points, and this ●ight the Church of Antioch had, Act. 15. and laboured to end that 〈…〉 in herself, which showeth that they had right and ● we, but they had not hability, and therefore in that case, they 〈…〉, light and advise from other Churches, and they say b lb Answ. ●● q. 18. pag. 64 So Mr. Mather and Mr. Thomson against Mr. Herlo, c. 2. The c●niociation of Churches into classes and Synods, we 〈◊〉 to be lawful, and in some cases necessary; as namely in things 〈…〉 not peculiar to one Church, but common to all. And likewise when a Church is not able to end any matter, that concerns only themselves, the● they are to seek advise & counsel from neighbour Churches: hence the power of Synods is only by way of counsel and advise, & a Pastors advise is but an advice, & he giveth not his advice, virtute 〈◊〉, as he is a Pastor, for then his advice should be pastoral and authoritative, and proceeding from the power of order, though not from the power of jurisdiction; he only giveth his advice as a gifted and enlightened man, and so, to my poor knowledge, two hundreth, five hundreth holy and learned Pastors determining in a Synod any dogmatic point, they sit all there not as in a court, not as Pastors, for then their Decrees should have pastoral authority, and some power formally ministerial to determine, yea and to sway, in a ministerial way, by power of the keys of knowledge, all the inferior Churches, whom the decree concerneth, even as the Eldership of Perg●mus, which to our brethren is a congregational Church, doth decree by the dogmatic power of the keys of knowledge that the doctrine of Balaam is a false doctrine, therefore they sit there as gifted Christians, and so have no Church-power more than a private brother or sister of the Congregation hath toward, or over another: for though a multitude of counselling and advising friends be safer and more effectual to give light, than a counselling friend, yet are they but a multitude of counselling friends, and the result of all counselling and advising men doth never rise higher than a counsel and advise, and can never amount to the nature of a command: as twenty sch●●●-fellowes, suppose as ●udent and wise as the twenty masters of an University, if these twenty schoolfellows give their advice and counsel 〈◊〉 a weighty business that concerneth the practice and obedience of all the students, the result of their counsel and advise can never be more than an advise, and cannot amount to the same determination of the twenty masters of the University, the result of whose determination is a sovereign commandment and an authoritative and judicial decree and statute to all the whole University. 2. Whereas these Godly brethren say the power of Synods in things which belong to particular Churches is but a counsel and advise, they should have told their mind, whether or no the Synod hath more than advise and counsel in things that are not peculiar to one Church, but common to all the Churches in that bounds, for it would seem that a Synod is a college of commanders in dogmatic points, that do equally concern all Churches (this should have beenespoken to) though in those things which are peculiar to each particular Church, they be but a college of friendly advisers and counsellors. 2. If a Synod be but a society of counsellors, they have no more any authoritative power to pronounce the sentence of non-communion, against any single Congregation or private man, than a private man or a single Congregation hath authoritative power to pronounce that sentence against them: but 3. You make the Synodical power so above the power of private Christians in counselling, as that this Synodical power is of divine institution, as you say, but let me ask what to do? to counsel and advise only? then that power of counselling in Abigail to David, in one brother or sister to another brother and sister is of divine institution, warranted by the Law of nature, Levit. 19 18. by the Law of charity, by the communion of Saints, Col. 3. 15. 1 Thes. 5. 14. Heb. 3. 13. Heb. 10. 24. Mal. 3. 16. Zach. 8. 21, 22, 23. for there is a divine institution, for one brother to counsel and teach another. But if our brethren give a positive power to a Synod, to advise and counsel, which private Christians have not, than this Synodical power shall not be different from the power of private Christians gradually only, as a lesser power to advise differeth from a greater power, but specifically and in nature. And indeed some of our brethren teach so, though I doubt if their brethren will return them thanks; for this way, which to me is doubtsome. For then the members of the Synod at Jerusalem, seem to me, to be more than counsellors, and there must be a positive institution by our brethren's grounds to warrant a power Synodical sentially different from a Church-power, and essentially above it: for we teach that because a congregation is a part of a classical Church, and a classical Church a part of a provincial Church, that this power in Congregations, Presbyteries, and Synods differ only gradually, in more or less extension, and by the way. Whereas some derive all Church-power from a single congregation to presbyteries and classes, ascendendo, by ascending, Church-power in the Church intrinsically, and not by other ascending or descending derived to any one part by another. others derive it from presbyteries to a Congregation, descendendo, yea and some from the Catholic visible Church to national assemblies, and from national assemblies to provincial Synods, and from Synods to Presbyteries, from Presbyteries to Congregations; I, with reverence of the learneder, do here conceive, that there is no such cursory derivation to be dreamt of; but because the Catholic visible Church is the great organical body whereof Christ Jesus God blessed for ever is head and King, & it is to●um integrale, therefore there is no derivation either by climbing up stairs, or going down, but Jesus Christ hath communicated his power to this great political body, and all its parts immediately; to a Congregation he hath given, by an immediate flux from himself, a political Church power intrinsically in it, derived from none but immediately from Jesus Christ, and the object of this power is those things that concern a Congregation; and that same head and Lord hath given immediately an intrinsical power to the Presbytery, in things that are purely classical, and that without either the intervening derivation of either a Congregation that is inferior to the Presbytery, by ascending, or without any derivative flux of a Synodical, national or Catholic visible Church, by descending; and the like immediately conveyed power political cometh from this glorious head to a Synodical, or national, or the Catholic visible Church, and the reason is, the very nature of the visible Church which is totum integrale, a great integral entire body, now we know that life cometh to the thighs immediately from the soul, neither by derivation from the feet and legs, by way of ascending, nor yet from the arms, breaks, and shoulders, by descending. I deny not but here there may be in other considerations, some order; as, if you ask which is t●● first Church; I answer with these distinctions of primatus, firstness. 1. The first Church, by way of constitution, is a congregation, Constitution and Intention. in the family of Adam and E●●. 2. The first Church, by way of divine intention, is the Catholic Church. Hence secondly, The first Church, by generation, or the order of generation, and so the less perfect, is a Congregation, and here is an ascension still from the part to the whole, from a Congregation to a Presbytery, from thence to a provincial Church, from thence to a national, from thence to the Catholic Church. And the first Church by way of perfection, is that Catholic Queen Generation and Perfection. and Spouse which Christ is to present to the Father, without sp●● or wrinkle, and all parts are for this perfect whole, all the ministry, ordinances, the dispensation of the work of redemption, Christ, his death, resurrection, intercession, etc. are for this as the end, the perfectum totum, Ephes. 5. 25, 26. Ephes. 4. 11. 12. 13. 1 Cor. 15. 23, 24. Hence thirdly, if we regard the order of operation; The Congregation Exercise of power, and power itself. is primum movens, and primum operans, for all the motions of the Catholick-Church beginneth at the inferior wheels and at the lower spikes, if a general council be to enact any thing, motions must begin at the single Congregation at Antioch, at Jerusalem, and from thence ascend to a Preshytery, and from thence a national Church is to send their Commissioners to act in a Catholic council, though if we look to the power itself, it is intrinsically in the whole and in every part of the Catholic Church. The fourth distinction considerable here is, that we are to regard either, 1. The order of nature, Or 1. The order of the inhesion of this power. or 2. The order of time. Or 2. Of the real derivation of 〈◊〉 power. If we respect the order of nature, the power, by order of nature, is given by Christ immediately, first to the whole Catholic Church, as is proved before at length, and by this order of nat●●● inhereth first in the whole Catholic Church, as man's organised entire whole body is, by nature's order, the first adequat and principal subject of life and the reasonable soul, not this ●● this part, but in regard of order of time, or real derivation of 〈◊〉, this whole power is immediately conferred by Jesus Christ on the whole Catholic visible Church, and to every part of it, and any real derivation of power from one part of the Catholic Church to another by ascension or descension is not to be dreamt of here. As Commissioners of cities and shires have from those cities and shires who choosed them a virtual power Parliamentary, yet is it not formally a power Parliamentary while the Parliament receive them as formal members, and then, by Law of the State, there falleth on them a formally parliamental power: so Commissioners have from their Churches which sent them, only a virtual or radical power, but they have never a formally Synodical power, by virtue of a divine institution, while they be convened in Christ's name Sin dically. It is true, the members of a general council derive their virtual power to voice, and conclude from the national Church that sent them to the council, but give me leave, this is but a derived power of membership making them fit to be incorporated in a Synod, but being once incorporated, they have by their power of order, and by Christ's immediate institution, a power immediately given by Christ, in whose ●ames they convene, to voice and conclude as a formal coun●●●, and to say, It seemed good to the holy Ghost and to us; they cannot say, 〈◊〉 good to the Churches that sent us. The 5. distinction is, that the power is considered either ●exercised ordinarily, or 2. occasionally. In regard of the ●●mer ordinary power is seated collaterally in the Congregation and Presbytery, in each according to its proportion of power, but because the power is completer in the Presbyte, which is a complete body, and less completely in the Congregation, which is less complete, it is more principally seated in the Presbytery; in regard of the latter Synods are the first subject of the occasional Church-power, in things which ●e in common belong to many Presbyteries, or to a national- Church. But to return, if the Synodical power be different in essence and nature and not gradually only, from the counsel and advise of Christians, then, first, it is not a determination that bindeth, by way of counsel and brotherly advise only, but under some higher consideration, which is as like a Church-relation of Church-power, as any thing can be, seeing here be Pastors acting as Pastors; 2. formally gathered in a council; 3. speaking Gods Word; 4. by the holy Ghost. But this shall be against the Church-government of New England. a Quest. 18. pag. 64. 65. 2. If it be essentially different from an advice and council and warranted by divine institution, why do not our brethrens give us Scripture for it? for if they give us Act. 15. than can they not say that the Apostles in this Synod did determine and voice as Apostles by an Apostolic, and immediately inspiring Spirit, for the spirit Synodical is a spirit imitable and a rule of pertually enduring morality in all Synods, and must lead us, for an Apostolic spirit is not now in the world. 3. As they require a positive divine institution, for the frame of a Presbyterial Church in power above a Congregation, and will not be satisfied with the light of nature, which upon the supposal of a spiritual government instituted by Christ in a Congregation which is a part, may clearly, by the hand, lead us to the enlarging of that same spiritual government in the whole, that is, to a number of consociated Churches which are all interessed, as one common society in a common government, so they must make out, for their Synod endued with dogmatic power a positive divine institution. 4. We desire a warrant from the Word why a college of Pastors determining by the Word of God as Pastors having power of order and acting in a college according to that power, should not be a formal and ordinary great Presbytery. 5. How can they, by our brethren's determination, exercise such pastoral acts out of their own Congregations towards those Churches to which they have no pastoral relation, virtute potestatis ordinis? 6. How can the wisdom of Christ, (who provideth that his servants be not despised, but that despisers in a Church way should be censured, 1 Tim. 1. 19, 20.) cloth his messengers in a Synod with a power dogmatic and deny all power of i●●●diction to them, upon the supposal that their determinations be rejected? I fear there be something under this, that none are to be censured or delivered to Satan for heterodox opinions, except they err in points fundamental. But farther it may be made good that a power dogmatic is not different in nature from a power of jurisdiction, for we read not of any society that hath power to meet to make Laws and decrees, which have not power also to back their decrees with punishments: if the Jewish Synedry might meet to declare judicially what was God's Law, in point of conscience, and what not, and to tie men to it, they had power to convene and make Laws, far more may they punish contraveners of the Law, for a nomothetick power in a society which is the greater power and is in the fountain, must presuppose in the society the less power, which is to punish, and the power of punishing is in the inferior judicature, so a nomothetick power ministerial cannot want a power of censuring. It is true, a single Pastor may ministerially give out commandments in the authority of Christ, but he cannot his alone censure or excommunicate the contraveners of those commandments, but it followeth well in an assembly he hath power to censure and excommunicate, now here Pastors and Elders are in an assembly. It is objected; Pastors in a Synod have no jurisdiction as Pasters; for what they do as Pastors that they may do there alone, and on; of a Synod: but they do not, nor cannot determine and give out Canons there alone, and they cannot there alone determine juridically; therefore they do not wholly and poorly as Pastors in relation to those Churches, give out these decrees, yet do they not give out the decrees as privite men wholly, but in some pastor all relation, for Pastors as Pastors have something peculiar to them in all Churches whither they come to preach so as a special blessing followeth on their labours, though they be not Pastors in relation to all the Churches they come to, even as a Sermon on the Lord's day is instamped with a more special blessing b●●●use of God's institution imprinted on the day, than a Sermon preached in another day. Answ. This argument is much for us, it is proper to acts of jurisdiction ecclesiastical that they cannot be exercised by one only, but must be exercised by a society, now a Pastor as a Pastor his alone without any collaterally joined with him exerciseth his pastoral acts of preaching and of administrating the Sacraments, but those who give out those decrees, cannot give them out Synodically, but in a Synod and Court-wayes as forensical decrees, and so in a juridical way, and because Pastors, whither so ever they come, do remain Pastors. 1. The Apostles are not in this Synod as Apostles, Secondly, nor yet as gifted Christians to give their counsel and advise; nor, thirdly (as this answerer granteth) merely as Pastors, than it must follow that, fourthly, they are here as such pastors convened Synodically, by divine institution, and that this is the pattern of a Synod. Object. 2. But there is no censuring of persons for scandals in this meeting, because there is nothing here but a doctrinal declaration of the falsehood of their opinion who taught a necessity of circumcision; and that all is done by way of doctrine and by power of the Keys of knowledge, not of jurisdiction, is clear from the end of this meeting, Act. 5. 2. Paul and Barnabas were sent from the Church of Antioc● unto Jerusalem unto the Apostles and Elders, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, concerning this question, and v. 6. the Apostles and Elders came together to consider, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, of this matter, consideration of Mr. Mather and Mr. Thomson against Mr. Herle, c. 1. p. 8. questions being the end of the Synod is a thing belonging to doctrinal power merely, so Mr. Mather. Answ. 1. It is false that there is no censuring of persons here, for to say nothing that Peter accuseth those of the wrong side as personally present at the Synod, either being summoned or coming thither by appeal, v. 10. Now therefore why tempt ye God to put a yoke upon the neck of the Discip'es, etc. which reproof coming from one man only, cannot be called a Synodical reproof; It is more than evident that the public Synodical censure of rebuke is put upon those who held and urged the necessity of circumcision, and why not excommunication also in case of obstinacy? for the Synodical censure of a public Synodical rebuke is only gradually different, not specifically from excommunication and both must proceed from one and the same power? Now the Synodical censure is evident in the Text, v. 24. certain went out from us, (so it is clear they pretended they were in this point followers of the Apostles) and Lorinus thinketh that some deemed them schismatics. 2. They have troubled you with words; Lorinus citeth the Sy 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 vedalacachum, they have terrified you, as if your salvation were not sure, except you keep Moses his Law of ceremonies and the moral Law. 3. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, destraying by false arguments your souls, it is a word contrary to building up in sound knowledge (as Aristotle taketh Aristot. 5. 〈◊〉. text 31. the word) saying that you must be circumcised and keep the Law. 4. They abused the name of the Apostles as having an Apostolic commandment, and so a divine warrant for their false doctrine, and therefore are they refuted as liars, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, whence it is clear they did labour to prove a necessity of circumcision not only from the old Testament and an express divine Law, but also from the authority of the Apostles, which was manifestly false; out of which I argue thus. If the Apostles do not only in a doctrinal way refute a false doctrine in this Synod, but also in a Churchway, and by a juridical power rebuke and Synodically charge the authors, as sub●erters of souls, and liars, than they do not only use a mere doctrinal power in this Synod, but also a juridical power: but the former is true: Ergo, so is the latter. 2. Observe two things in these obtruders of circumcision. First, the error of their judgement. It is more than apparent, that they had a heterodox and erroneous opinion of God and his worship, and the way of salvation, as is clear, Act. 15. 1. And certain men which came down from Judea, taught the brethren, (and said) except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved. This doctrine is clearly refuted both by Peter v. 10. That yoke of the Law we disclaim, there is a way of salvation without that yoke, v. 11. But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus, we shall be saved as they, and it is synodically refuted, v. 24. we gave no such commandment, it is not the mind of us the Apostles of the Lord that you keep Moses Law, as you hope to be saved; there was for this error in their judgement required a doctrinal or dogmatic power, and this the Synod used. 2. Besides this erroneous opinion in their judgement, there was another fault and scandal that the Synod was to censure, to wit, their obtruding of their false way upon the souls and consciences of the Churches, as vers. 1 They taught the brethren this false doctrine. 2. That they wilfully and obstinately did hold this opinion, and raised a Schism in the Courch, v. 2. wherefore Paul and Barnabas had no small 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, dissension, (the word signifieth sedition which was raised by those who held that erroneous opinion) and great disputation with them. 3. They laid a yoke upon the brethren, v. 10. and v. 7. They made great disputation against the Apostles, and v. 24. They troubled the brethren and perverted their souls. This was not simply an heterodox opinion which is the material part of a heresy, but had something of the formal part of an heresy, to wit, some degrees of pertinacy, of brutish and blind zeal, even to the troubling and perverting of the souls of the Churches, while as they would make disciples to themselves, and lead away souls from the simplicity of the Gospel; now the Synod doth not help this latter simply, in a Synodical way, by a dogmatic and doctrinal power, but by an authority Synodical, and therefore they authoritatively rebuke them, as subverters of souls; and whereas these teachers laid on an unjust yoke to keep Moses his Law upon the Churches, v. 10. the Synod by their ecclesiastical and juridical authority doth free the Churches of that yoke, and they say in their decree. v. 28. It seemed good to the holy Ghost and to us, (not to lay the yoke of Moses his Law on you, as those who trouble you have done) to lay upon you no greater burden, than these necessary things, etc. now if there had been nothing to do but to resolve the question, if this had been the total and adequat end of the Synod, in a mere doctrinal way to resolve the question, Whether must we be circumcised, and keep the Law moral and ceremonial of Moses, upon necessity of salvation, as the argument of our brethren contendeth; Peter, v. 10. 11. made a clear issue of the question, We are saved by the grace of God, both ●●nes and Gentiles, and it is to tempt God to lay the yoke of the Law of Moses upon the brethren; the resolving of that question is the end of the Synod, but not the adequat end, for here that, not only the doctrinal power was to be used, but beside that, 1. the schism was to be removed, and the authority of the Synod to be used against the wilfulness and obstinacy of those obtruders of circumcision, in rebuking them as perverters of souls. 2. For the scandal which might have been taken if the Gentiles should have eaten blood and things strangled, and meats offered to idols, and therefore the Apostles and Elders behoved, as a convened Synod to forbid a grievous scandal and a spiritual homicide against the Law of nature, to wit, that the Gentiles for fear of scandalising weak. believers amongst the Jews, should abstain from the practice of some things at this time merely indifferent in their nature, though not indifferent in their use, such as were to eat things offered to idols, things strangled and blood: and whereas our brethren, 3. Object, If the Apostles did any thing more than might have been done by private Pastors out of a Synod, it was merely Apostolical, and the Elders did but assent to the Apostles Apostolical determination; and every one did here, Apostles, Elders, and Brethren, more suo, Apostles as Apostles, Elders and Brethren as Elders and Brethren, after their manner as consenters to the Apostles, but other ways it is a begging of the question, for to say the Apostles and Elders, rebuked Synodically the obtruders of circumcision, it's but said, because one Pastor might have rebuked those obtruders; for the specification of actions must not be taken from their efficient causes, but from their formal objects, therefore this is no good consequence, the Synod rebuked those obtruders, Ergo, the Synod rebuked them as a Synod, and by a power of jurisdiction, it followeth not, for Paul, Gal. 2. rebuked Peter; Ergo, Paul had a power of jurisdiction over Peter. I think yourselves will deny this consequence. I Answer, 1. These two answers are contradictory, and showeth that our brethren are not true to their own principles, for sometime they say the Apostles gave out this decree as Apostles, and sometime there is nothing here done by a mere doctrinal power, such as Paul had over Peter, or one single Pastor hath over another, now it is sure that Paul had no Apostolic, power over Peter, and that one Pastor have not Apostolic power over another. 2. When our brethren say here that the Apostles as Apostles by an infallible spirit gave out this Decree, they do in this help the Papists, as Bellarmine, Becanus, Gr●●rut, and in particular the Jesuit a Lorinus come. in loc. Lorinus, who saith, decr●um authenticum cujus inspirator spiritus sanct●, and so saith b Cornelius a Lap. in loc. Cornelius a lapide, visi●m est nobis inspiratis & decretis a Spiritu sanctus, therefore saith he the council cannot err, and so c Salmeron in loc. Salmeron and d Cajetan in loc. Cajetan say, and expressly e Stapleton in Antidote. Apost. inc. 15. v. 28. actor. Apost. Stapleton saith this Apostosack definition flowed from the instinct of the holy Ghost; observandum (saith Stapleton) quanta habenda sit ecclesiae definienth authorit●s; hence our brether here must yield either that all Synods are infallible, as Papists say, this Synod the pattern of all Synods being concluded by an Apostolic spirit could not err, and so neither can counsels err, or they must with Socinians and Arminians say there is no warrant for Synods here at all. And certainly though we judge our brethren as far from Popery and Socinianism, as they think we detest Antichristian Presbytery, yet if this Synod be concluded by an Apostolic spirit, it is no warrant to be imitated by the Churches, and we have no ground hence, for lawful Synods. Whittakerus, Calvin, Beza, Luther, and all our Divines do all allege this place as a pregnant ground not of Apostolic, but of ordinary and constant Synods to the end of the world; and f Diodatus in in ann. on the place. ac. 15. 28. Diodatus, good to the holy Ghost) because they did treat of ecclesiastical readers concerning the quietness and order of the Church, wherein ecclesiastical authority hath place, the Assembly used this term, it seemed good to us, which is not used, neither in articles of faith, nor in the commandments which merely concerned the conscience: and to show that authority was with holy reason and wisdom, there is added, and to the holy Ghost, who guided the Apostles in these outward things also, 1. Cer. 7. 25. 40. 2. If our brethren mean that the Elders and brethren were in this Apostolic and immediately inspired Synodical determination, not as collateral penners of Scriptures joined with the Apostles, but only as consenters and as consenters by power of an ordinary holy Ghost working consent in them, more suo, according to their capacity as ordinary Elders. 1. They yet more help the Papists because they must say only Apostles, and so only their successors; the Prelates had definitive voices in this Synod, the Presbyters and Brethren did no more than Papists and Prelates say Presbyters did in general counsels of old, and therefore the Presbyter is to subscribe, Ego, A. N. Presbyter consentiens subseribo, whereas the Prelate subscribed (say they) Ego, A. B. Episcopus definiens subscribo; we crave a warrant in God's Word to make an Apostle or a Prelate a Synodical definer, having a definitive voice, and the Elder Brother, or Presbyter to have a consultative voice, for here all the multitude (if there was a multitude present) do make Synodical decrees by consulting and consenting, yea all the nation may come to a national Synod, and both reason, dispute, and consent, because matters of doctrine and government of the Church concerneth all, therefore all have an interest of presence, and all have an interest of reasoning; and 3. by consequent all have an interest of consenting; yea of protesting on the contrary, if the Synod determine any thing against the Word of God. If they say there is a threeford consent in this Synod, 1. an Apostolical, 2. a second Synodical agreeing to Elders as Elders, and a third, that of the people, or a popular; What a mixed Synod shall this be? but 1. then as the Epistle to the Tlxssalonians is called the Epistle of Paul, not the Epistle of Silvanus and Timotheus, though Silvanus and Timotheus did consent, so these (dogmata) or decrees should not be called the decrees of the Apostles and Elders, as they are called, Act. 16. 4. Act. 15. 6. Act. 21. 25. but only the decrees of the Apostles; seeing the Elders did only consent, and had no definitive influence in making the decree, by this doctrine, as Silvanus and Timotheus were not joint penmen of Scripture with Paul. 3. When as it is said the specification of actions must not be taken from the efficient cause, but from the formal object, and all that a done in this Synod might have been done by a single Pastor. I answer, we do not fetch the specification of this rebuke and of these decrees from the efficient causes, but from the formal object, for an Apostle might his alone have rebuked these obtruders of circumcision, and made this decree materialiter, for Paul did, more his alone then this, when he wrote the Epistle to the Romans, but yet one Pastor could not have Synodically rebuked, and given out a decree formally Synodical, laying an Ecclesiastical tie on more Churches than one, there is great odds to do one and the same action formally, and to do the same action materially, and I believe though actions have not, by good logic, their total specification from their efficient cause, yet that ordinances of God as lawful have their specification from the efficient causes in part our brethren cannot deny. For what made the difference betwixt Aaron his fire offered to the Lord, and Nadab and Abihu their strange and unlawful fire, that they offered to the Lord, but that the on fire had God for its author, the other had men, and the like I say of God's feasts, and the feasts devised by Jeroboam, else if a woman preach and administrate the Lords Supper in the Church, that preaching and sacrament administrated by her should not have a different specification and essence, if we speak morally or Theologically, from that same very preaching and celebration of the Supper performed in the Church by a lawful Pastor; it is (as I conceive) of the essence of an action Synodical (I say not its total essence) that it cannot be performed by one in a Churchway, and with an ecclesiastical tie, but it must be performed by many, else it is not a Synodical action, and it is true that Paul, Rom. 14. and 1 Cor. 8. 10. hath in substance the same Canon forbidding scandal, which is forbidden in this Canon prohibiting eating of meats offered to Idols, and blood, in the case of scandal; but (I pray you) is there not difference betwixt the one prohibition and the other? yea there is, for, Rom. 14. 1 Cor. 8. 10. it hath undeniably Apostolic authority, here it hath only Synodical. 2. There it is a commandment of God, here it is a Canon of the Church. 3. There it cometh from one man, here from a college of Apostles and Elders convened, and yet materially it is the same prohibition. Object. 4. The Acts of this Synod are finaliter acts of government, because they are rules conducing for the governing of the Church, but formaliter, they are acts of dogmatic power, and not formally acts of jurisdiction, for there is no rebuking of subverters of soul's inordine to excommunication, no penal power is exercised here, sub poona, under the pain of excommunication, and therefore there an here no formal acts of government. Answ. 1. The acts of Church-government finaliter, that is, government, because to prescribe rules and directive Laws (for they are not properly Laws which the Church prescribeth, Christ is the only Lawgiver) are formal acts of governing, and one power doth not make Laws for governing the Church, and another power different in nature punish the contraveners. And what power disposeth and ordereth, the means do also dispose and order the end; Canons of the Church tending to the edification of the Church are means tending to the government of the Church, and I appeal to the judgement of our reverend brethren, if we suppose that one single Congregation should do all that this Synod doth, if they would not call it a formal governing of that particular Congregation: for example, in the Church of Pergamus, one ariseth and teacheth the doctrine of the Nicolaitans, suppose that fornication is indifferent is the eating of blood, and is no sin; the Angels of the Church of Pergamus preach against this doctrine, in private, they deal by force of arguments from Scripture, that it is a wicked doctrine, and destructive to holiness, as Paul and Barnab as disputeth, Act. 15. 1. 2. with the obtruders of a necessity of Circumcision, yet they prevail not, now suppose this independent Church following the Apostle Paul's way, think good to convene a Synod or a parishional assembly to determine Synodically that this is a wicked doctrine, and shall in their decree call the holder's of this doctrine subverters of souls, and forbid fornication in their Synod, now supposing Pergamus to be a single Church in a remote Island consociated with no neighbouring Churches, who could in reason deny that this Synodical power so enacting were a power formally governing the Church of. Pergamus? it is true, some of our brethren say, that it is even to us a received tenant that the power that disposeth of the means of governing doth not for that govern in respect that we teach that the classical presbytery doth decree and in act, and the Congregation doth execute these Decreed, but I pray you doth this prove that the power ordering the means of governing is no formal act of governing? yea the contrary is true, because the Congregation executing the acts of the classical presbytery, as subordinat in that act to the classical presbytery, & by their authority, therefore while they give out these acts or Canons, do formally govern, that Congregation executing their acts, in this particular. Mr. Mather and Mr. Thomson against Mr. Herle, c. 1. p. 9 teach that there is a power of clearing truth dogmatically, and that 〈◊〉 ‑ 〈◊〉, ultimately, where the controversy is ended, but they will have this ultimate power not in a Synod only, but also in a Congregation. But 1. they seem to make this dogmatic power a Church-power, and the exercise thereof formally an act of Church-government, and so it must be Church-power and Church-government in the Synod, as well as in the Congregation. 2. The last period and conclusion of the controversy cannot be both in the Congregation, de jure, by right only, and in the Synod by right only, for two last powers cannot be properly in two subordinate judicatures, for if Antioch appeal to a Synod, as they doc, Act. 15. 2. then Antioch is not the sole, last and ultimate and final judge; and 3. If the controversy concern many Churches, as this doth, Act. 15. 2. 23. 24. I see not how a Congregation, except they transgress their line, can finally determine it. And here while as our brethren do all edge that a Synod hath a power to decree, and make laws, but hath no power at all to execute these Laws or to punish the contraveners, but power of punishing is all in the single Congregation. ●. They tie all governing power to a punishing power, as if there were no other ways to govern, but upon supposal of scandals, whereas all Scripture and politician's make a power of giving Laws formally a governing power. 2. When one society and Synod maketh the Laws, and another must execute them and punish the contraveners, the single Congregation that punisheth, is more subjected by a truly prelatical bondage, then if the Lawmakers had only the power of punishing the contraveners, at they only have the power of making the Laws. I take not here Laws for Laws properly so called, but for ministerial directories having ecclesiastical authority: and here in effect, our brethren lay truly a prelatical bondage on the Churches of Christ, for they teach that a Synod may make a Law by a pastoral power, and that this Synod is an ordinance of Christ by Act. 15. and that as Prelates did, they send those Synodical decrees to be obeyed and put in execution by the Churches, and ordain the contraveners to be punished by the Churches, and here is a power above a power, and mandates for government sent by the Synod to the Churches to be obeyed, and a Synod governing by Churches, this they call prelatical in us. But 3. there is no penal power here (say they) and nothing decerved to be obeyed, sub paena, under the pain of excommunication, therefore no power of jurisdiction. But this consequence is justly denied, for no politician, no reason in the world can say that all power of jurisdiction is included in the power of excommunication. What? hath the Church a Church-power to threaten, and no Church-power to pardon the penltent? I think if the Church as the Church, Matth. 18. receive a power from Christ to bind in heaven and earth, doth not Christ in that same patent give to her also a power to lose in earth and heaven? and when he saith, if be refuse to bear the Church, let him be to thee ● aube●hen and publican; doth he not give to the Church a power to command? if he command to hear and obey the Church, he must give a power of jurisdiction to the Church to command, and a power to command not penal only, but promissory also, to lose and absolve upon condition of processed repentance. Now suppose the Church make a Law, that theresurrection of the dead is a truth of God to be believed, and professed, upon occasion that in the Congregation Hymeneus & Alexander den yeth that Article, in that very Commandment doctrinal the Church doth govern the whole Congregation, and exerciseth a power of formal governing, though in their act they say nothing of the censure of excommunication, to those who shall deny that Article of the resurrection, for (I hope) a simple sanction maketh a Law, though no penalty be expressed in it, and though there had been in the Decree, Act 15. 28. an express punishment, this should, to our brethren prove no power of jurisdiction exercised by many, for this which is said, Gal. 1. 8. Though we or an Angel from heaven preach unto you (another Gospel) then that which we have preached let him be accursed, and that 1 Cor. 9 16. Woe unto me if I preach not the Gospel, and many other threatenings in Scripture, though a punishment be annexed expressly, cease not to be merely doctrinal, and are not threatenings importing formally any power of Church-jurisdiction, and therefore though mention should have been made of a censure, if there be not here a Synod. 2. Having power and authority from Christ. 3. Commanding by the holy Ghost, (as these indeed are all here) the name of censure should prove no power of jurisdiction. Object. 5. The laying on of the yoke spoken of, v. 28. is a meers, doctrinal yoke, and it importeth no more a poner of jurisdiction, than we can conclude that the obtruders of circumcision bade a power of jurisdiction, because they are said to lay on a yoke also, and to tempt God in so doing, verse. 10. Answ. I retort this reason, for we can then no more conclude that the Apostles by an Apostolic authority laid on this yoke, than we can conclude that the obtruders of circumcision did lay on this yoke, because they are said to lay on a yoke and to tempt God, v. 10. It is a most unequal reasoning to argue against a just Synodical power from a sinful and unjust power, for these obtruders of circumcision had no lawful power at all to lay a yoke on the Disciples, but sinned and tempted God in laying on that yoke, but it is not denied by our brethren, but the Apostles and Elders had a lawful power to lay on a yoke in this Synod, only it is controverted whether it be a mere dogmatic or doctrinal power, or if it be a power of jurisdiction, nay the obtruders of circumcision by neither of these two powers laid on a yoke upon the Dsciples. Object. 6. These decrees which did no other ways bind the Church of Jerusalem, than they did bind all the Churches of the world, cannot be decrees of power of jurisdiction over the Church of Jerusalem, and over the Church of Antioch. But these decrees did no otherwise bind the Church of Jerusalem, than they did bind all the Churches of the world, for the decrees of Apostles and Elders at Jerusalem, Act. 6. 4, 5. were sent to all the Churches of the world to be observed, and seeing they could not as Synodical Canons oblige all the Churches of the world, by an ecclesiastical tie, because all the Churches of the world sent not Commissioners, and all the Churches of the world couldnot be represented in this Synod, but only the Churches of Jerusalem and Antioch; yea we see not that this Synod is any more than the Church of Antioch seeking counsel from the sister Church at Jerusalem; as one Church may advise another Church that is weaker in knowledge, in a matter of such difficulty, because the Apostles were at jerusalem, and that 〈◊〉. 1. The whole Canons are ascribed to the Church of Jerusalem only, to the Apostles, Elders and the whole Church, Act. 15. 22. and Act. 15. 22. and Act. 16. 4, 5. and Act. 21. 25. the Elders of Jerusalem take this act or canon to themselves. 2. It cannot be proven that the Churches of Syria and Cilicia had any commissioners he●●, far less had all the Churches of the Gentiles, who yet are commanded to keep those decrees by commissioners there, C. 15. 19 Act. 21. 25. Act. 16. 4, 5. 3. It cannot be proven that Antioch sent Elders to this meeting, but only Commissioners, Act. 15. 2. Answ. This answer is much contradicent to what our brethren other ways hold, for if it be a pattern of a sister Church, giving advice and counsel to another, this is imitable to the world's end, and if the Canon come from the Apostles as Apostles it is not imitable. 2. That one sister Church can lay burdens on another, and give out 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, decrees to be kept is unwarrantable; now 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 as they are called by all that understandeth Greek, are not friendly advices of brethren; the seventy Interpreters use the word, Daniel 6. 26. to express a Law made by Darius, Luke useth the word, c. 2. 1. saith a decree 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 came from Augustus Caesar to tax all the World. 2. It is a graver business than we can think of, to believe that these who only give advise and counsel, and must convene in a Synod, as Apostles and Elders do here, v. 23. (2) that they can say as it is v. 28. It seemed good to the holy Ghost and to us to lay no other burden on you then t●●se necessary things, for a counsel or advise can never amount to the burden imposed by the holy Ghost speaking in a Synod: 2. It is denied that this decree obliged the Church of Jerusalem no other way than it obliged all the Churches of all the world, for here be three sorts of Churches, and three sorts of Churches are under a tie by this Synod; first, Jerusalem, secondly, Antioch, Syria and Cilicia, thirdly, universally all the Churches of the Gentiles. The Church of Jerusalem have formal commissioners, here under an ecclesiastical tie as concerning the faith of the things contained in the decree, that it is lawful for the Gentiles to abstain from things offered to idols, from things strangled, and from blood; and they were simply under a tie both of the seventh Commandment, and by the fifth Commandment, to abstain from fornication, because the Synod had forbidden it. 2. They were under a tie by due proportion, not to keep the Law of Moses and not to be circumcised by any necessity of a Divine Law, but only by permission to use these ceremonies for fear of scandal. 3. They are tied by proportion also to give no offence in things indifferent. 4. Not to reject the Gentiles whom the Lord had called to his heavenly kingdom, as well as the Jews. 2. These Churches of the Gentiles who never heard of the Synod, and so were not obliged to be there in their Commissioners or not tied at all by this Decree, by virtue of any ecclesiastical tie, but are only tied by the Law of Nature, not to abuse their liberty in the use of things in their own nature indifferent, and so this is false that the Church of Jerusalem was tied no other way by these acts then all Churches of the world, for some of the Churches of the world were not tied at all, by any ecclesiastical bond, but only for the necessity of the Law of Nature. 3. Jerusalem, Antioch, Syria and Cilicia were tied by an ecclesiastical tie, because Jerusalem and the Churches of Antioch had here Commissioners, for Antioch sent Paul and Barnabas with certain other of them, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, this must relate to Pastors and Elders, if Syria and Cilicia had no Commissioners here, as certainly they were obliged to send Commissioners, as well as Antioch, seeing their case was one with Antioch, v. 23. and they could not but hear of this Apostolic remedy to remove the scandal of false Doctrine, and therefore their Commissioners were either here, or then they were obliged to be here, and here we have the true essence of a Synod, to wit, a meeting of the Churches of Antioch and Jerusalem at Jerusalem to determine of this question. But that the Church of Jerusalem did not determine all the business in a Presbyterial way, and that others had hand in it, is clear. 1. Because Paul and Barnabas and others with them are expressly sent from Antioch to Jerusalem as Commissioners and Elders, and here they reason and voice, as is clear, ch. 15. v. 12. v. 22. v. 28. ch. 16. 4. ch. 21. 25, 26. and the Acts and Decrees are ascribed to all the Apostles and Elders who were present at the council, ch. 14. 4. ch. 15. v. 22. v. 12. and amongst these were Paul and Barnabas, with certain others sent from Anti●b, Act. 15. 2. and the Elders of Jerusalem, Act. 21. 25. with the Apostles, Act. 16. 4. (2.) the reasons alleged are false, for Act. 16. 4. Act. 15. 22. Act. 21. 25. the Acts and Synodical Decrees are not ascribed to Elders of Jerusalem only, but to the Apostles who were not Elders at Jerusalem, and to the Elders in Jerusalem, Act. 16. 4. not of Jerusalem. 3. It is no matter though it cannot be proven that the Churches of Syria and Cilicis had no Commissioners there, for first, the contrary cannot be proven; secondly, they ought to have had Commissioners here; thirdly, the Acts are sent to them conjunctly with Antioch, and messengers to report the mind and sense of the Assembly as to Antioch, v. 23. (4.) It is but a groundless conceit to say that Paul and Barnabas came to the Synod as Commissioners, or as servants to receive information, not as Elders to give their decisive voices, because Paul carried himself in the assembly as Peter and James who were Elders in the assembly, and they being Apostles, the decrees are ascribed to the Apostles without any distinction, Act. 15. 28. Act. 16. 4. And if Paul and Barnabas, and Silas a Prophet of the Church at Antioch, Act. 15. v. 32. with Judas, v. 27. also a Prophet, had been only Commissioners and servants of the Church at Antioch, and not Elders and members of the Assembly, how could they have voices in the Church or Congregation of Jerusalem? for the messengers of one Congregation hath not place to voice in another Congregation. 2. It is said expressly, It seemed good to the Apostles and Elders, with the whole Church to send chosen men of their own, with Paul and Barnabas, namely, Judas surnamed Barsabas, and Silas, chief men, (leading men) amongst the Brethren; now I desire to be resolved in two; 1. how Judas and Silas were men of their own company 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, certainly 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 must relate to the Assembly, to wit, to Elders and Apostles, by all good Grammar, and how are they called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, Captains and leading men amongst the Brethren, which brethren are certainly these mentioned in the same verse, Apostles, Elders, and the whole Church, and these mentioned in the next verse, 23. Apostles, Elders and Brethren, that is, chosen men of this Assembly; now it is evident that Judas and Silas were no part of Elders of the Church of Jerusalem, but Prophets at Antiab, v. 32. and members of that Presbytery spoken of Act. 13. 1, 2. and Act. 15. v. 35. And what power then had the Assembly to send them, and especially what power had the Eldership or presbytery of Jerusalem to send men 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, of their own company who were not men of their own company? therefore they were called chosen men 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 of their own company, and leading men 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 of the Brethren, because they were members of the Assembly, and of that council gathered together with one accord, v. 25. and not because they were naked messengers of the Church of Antioch, but Elders, Prophets, v. 32. and members of the Assembly, v. 22. 23. And when as it is said Act. 16. 4. Act. 21. 28. These decrees are ascribed to the Elders in Jerusalem. I answer they are not called the Elders of the Church of Jerusalem, as Revel. 2. 1. To the Angel of the Church of Ephesus, v. 8. To the Angel of the Church of Smyrna, and v. 12. of the Church of Pergamus, and v. 18. and Act. 20. 17. but the Eders which were at Jerusalem assembled: and this doth no more prove that all these Elders were only the Elders of the Church at Jerusalem, than it proveth that the Apostles were the Apostles of the Church at jerusalem which no man can say: yea by the phrase of Scripture used in other places, it is clear they were not the Elders of the Church of Jerusalem; and for Act. 21. 25. The Elders of the Church of Jerusalem taketh those Decrees upon them, not as if they made the whole Synod, but because they were a considerable part of the Synod, for it is clear from the story, Act. 15. that the Apostles and others were members of that assembly, and therefore, that v. 25. We have written and concluded, etc. must be expounded, we as a part of the Synod, have written, etc. and it is a Synecdoche, and the pronoun 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 (we) includeth no Apostle but James, whereas Peter, Paul, Barnabas, judas, Sil●s and others Elders and Brethren were members of the Synod, yea and (as our Brethren say, though to me it is not probable) the whole Church of jerusalem from v. 22. c. 15. Object. 7. They take away the scandal in a doctrinal way only, declaring that they ought to abstain from things scandalous. Answ. The very delivering to Satan may thus be called doctrinal, because it is a Declaration that the man's sins are retained in heaven, yet it is an authoritative declaration, and if it be mere doctrinal, one Pastor and one Prophet might have done all which this venerable college of Apostles and Elders disputed, reasoned, and concluded Synodically. A mere doctrinal power layeth not on burdens and Decrees. Herodian calleth such 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 senatusconsult●in, and Burdens a man excellently skilful in the Greek language saith the like Budens cōme●t. l●ng. 〈◊〉. C. l. n●m & demostbenes ss. delegis. of it, and so doth the civil Law make it a statute of the Senate. Object. 8. The reason why Patel could not, though he was an Apostle, determine this at Antioch, was not because he wanted Apostolic authority, but because his Apostolic power was more questionable, he not having seen Christ in the flesh, nor being a witness of the life, death and resurrection of Christ, than the authority of James and Peter who wer● eye-witnesses of Christ's life, doctrine, and sufferings, and saw him visibly ascend to heaven, and the believers doubted if he was an Apostle, and the Synod was convened to have theresolution of the Apostles, and so it was merely Apostolical. Ans. Though I grant there besom truth in this, that Paul's Apostolic calling was now more question 〈◊〉, than the rest of the Apostles; and I easily yield that these who disputed with him could not rest upon his authority; yet I deny that hence we can infer no Synod: for if the Apostles had convened in Synod to satisfy those who doubted of Paul's authority as an Apostle; then they would have reterred the matter to James and Peter, who to these believers were undoubtedly the Apostles of the Lord: but if the Apostles had had no intent, but to end the controversy in a mere Apostolic way, and not intended a Synodical and an ●clesiasticall and perpetual remedy in such cases of controversies, in particular Churches; I shall not believe that the Apostles when they were to determine by a superior, an Apostolic and infallible light, they would have joined with them the Elders, as Act. 15. 16. to consider of the question, and that the Church of Au●ioch doubting if Paul was an Apostle, would have decreed to seek a resolution from Elders, and that in an Apostolic way, for they sent to the Elders at Jerusalem for a resolution as well as to the Apostles, Act. 15. 2. and judge ye if the Apostles being to determine infallibly as Apostles, would join the falliblo and inferior light of Elders, v. 6. and Brethren, v. 22. if tlloy had not had a mind to determine the question in a Synodical way. Object. 9 But it is not clear that in this act they either censure persons, or do any thing in order to Church-censure, but only exercise a naked doctrinal power. Answ. A doctrinal power was in a higher measure in the Apostles, then in all the Elders of the world, who were all but fallible men, and James and Peter to these believers, who moved the question, were undeniably Apostles, and what doctrinal power could they seek in the Elders to whose determination, by intention both of Antioch, ch. 15. 2. and by the Apostles intention, v. 6. the question is referred as well as to the Apostles? if the matter was not to be ended by a formal Synod. 2. Nor can they deny a power of jurisdiction though there were no persons rebuked and censured in this Synod; for the object of a juridical power is not only persons, but things of order, decency, circumstances, questions of doctrine, as is clear, Re●el. 1. 14. 15. & officers to be ordained, Act. 6. 3, 4, 5, 6. 1 Tim. 5. 22. 2 Tim. 2. 2, 3. (3.) Our brethren cannot deny but the sentence of non-Communion is a censure, and a great one, yea and of kindred and blood most near to excommunication, and that if any Churches should have ref●●sed those Canons, by this Canon the Churches might have pronounced the sentence of non-communion against them, and to pronounce this sentence is an act of government as properly so called, as to pronounce the sentence of excommunication, for it is the formal half of the sentence of excommunication. Object. 10. It seemeth that Apostles here determine as Apostles, for they condenme the obtruders of circumcision, because they taught these things without any Apostolic, Commandment, v. 24. They teach that you must be circumcised and keep the Law, to whom, we, (the Apostles) gave no such commandment. Answ. This is no more a good argument to prove that the obtruders of circumcision did teach false doctrine, and were not condemned by the Apostles and Elders Synodically, then if one should say, this is not a Synodical decree of the Church, because it is proven and made good by the Word of God, for Synodical decrees exclude not God's word, though they be not formally Scripture; for in some part of the Epistle the Apostles may well speak of themselves as distinguished from Elders and as Apostles, and yet the assembly is an ordinary Synod and not an Apostolic meeting, for if we should argue thus, the whole Church, men and women, v. 22. sent messengers to Antioch, as the Church, and not as Apostles, our brethren would think it a weak consequence to infer, Ergo, this was nothing but a Congregational, not an Apostolical meeting. Yet our brethren contend that the whole Church and single Congregation of jerusalem did concur in this meeting as consenters, and having power also, though not of jurisdiction; but I wonder why our brethren should so contend that there was no power of censuring put forth in this Assembly, seeing one of their special answers, whereby they would prove that this it not a pattern of an ordinary Synod, and such a Synod as we contend for, having power of jurisdiction is, that this was an ordinary meeting of the Elders and Church of jerusalem, giving counsel and advise with the Apostles to the Church of Antioch, but I am sure the business of not scandalising did as much concern the Church of jerusalem, and therefore in the Synod they ought to put forth power of jurisdiction, if any of their members, hearing that the Apostles contended that the ceremonial Law did not lay a tie on the conscience of either Jew or Gentile, in foro dei, before God's court, as the places cited by james prove, v. 15, 16, 17. (& Peter saith expressly that God now putteth no difference betwixt jews and Gentiles, v. 9 but 〈◊〉 are saved through the grace of our Lord jesus, v. 11.) should ab ●aine from blood, to the offence of the weaker, should not this Congregation all Church condemn such, in ordine ad censuram, in order to excommunication? yea the Eldership and Congregation of Jerusalem here convened as our brethren say, should have failed in this first Synod, and also the Apostles with them, if they neglected to exercise juridical power over their own Congregation in the case of scandal, and a scandal as possible to them to fall in as the Gentiles, and therefore either this assembly consisting of Apostles and of the particular Church of jerusalem erred, which we cannot say, or then they did exercise power in order to excommunication towards their own Church, and so there is some juridical power put forth in this meeting. Object. 11. Though the Apostles in this Synod proceed by way of disputing and borrow light one from another, it followeth not th●● they go not on here as Apostles, yea though Peter and Paul d●e not say all the truth, nor fall upon that which is the conclusion of the Assembly, as I ames doth, it doth not hinder but they are led in all these Synodicull deba●e● by the infallible and Apostolic spirit, because some things are revealed to one Evangelist and to one Prophet, which is not revealed to another; john the Divine saw visions and heavenly mysteries which none of the rest of the Apostles saw, nor could write in their writings and Canonical Epistles, yet it doth not hence follow that James, Peter, Judas and Paul in their canonical writings and Epistles were not immediately inspired. It is enough to make the Apostles in their writings infallible Apostles and immediately inspired, if that which they write be the infallible truth and canonic Scripture, though every Apostle write not all canonic truth; now what the Apostles setteth down in this Synod is Scripture, and the object of our faith, and written for our instruction; so something was revealed to James which was not revealed to Peter and Paul in this dispute, but it followeth not, Ergo, what Peter and Paul spoke, they spoke it not by immediate revelation, and what they spoke is not Scripture. Answ. 1. The strength of my argument is close mistaken, for I did not argue simply from the Apostles borrowing light one from another, to prove they act not here as Apostles but as Elders, neither did I argue simply from this, James saith more than Peter doth, Ergo, Peter is not immediately inspired in what he saith: for I grant the Apostles borrow ●ight from the Prophets, and their writings, one saith and writeth what another saith not, and cannot write, and yet all are immediately inspired, in what they write. But I argued thus; when ever the Apostles are consulted with to resolve a question as Apostles & do convene Synodically & intent to resorve the question if the Apostles in that case, or any one of them come short of the resolution, & do not see the conclusion they intent to see, but in so far as they are helped on by another in a way of disputation, in that they do not act as Apostles, but the case is so here; 1. all were consulted with, Act. 15. 2. (2) all intended to resolve the question, and did meet together for that end to resolve it fully, v. 6. (3) yet divers of the Apostles, as Peter, Paul and Barnabas see not the resolution fully that they aimed at, but determine the question imperfectly, and so, as if james had been absent, or if he had seen no more in resolving the question, than Paul and Barnabas and Peter said, which was only that the Law of Moses was not to be kept by either jew or Gentile, upon the Necessity of salvation, but that both Jews and Gentiles are saved by the grace of Jesus Christ; if James (I say) had seen no more than this, the consciences of both sides had not been satisfied, and the question not resolved, but the Jews should have gone on in a total abstinence from all ceremonies, which because of the indifference of the ceremonies, was then dangerously scandalous, and spiritual homicide, and the Gentiles should freely have eaten blood, meats offered to idols, and things strangled, which also was scandalous in a high measure to the weak Jews, and so the matter should have been worse after this Synod, and the controversy hotter, the fire bolder, and the scandal more dangerous than it was before the Synod, which I cannot believe that the Apostles as Apostles could have done; So we know Nathan to have spoken as a man, and not as a Prophet, when being consulted with by David anent the building of the Temple, and purposing and intending fully to resolve the question, yet resolved it amiss and quite contrary to the mind of God; now what the penmen of holy Scripture intended to write as Scripture, that they fully wrote and no more, and what they wrote not, that they intended not to write, but leave it to others of the penmen of the holy Ghost, because the immediately inspiring holy Ghost consulted with and intending to resolve such a canonic truth, cannot miss in his blessed intention. And also the Elders at Jerusalem were consulted with to resolve the question as well as the Apostles, as is clear Act. 15. 2. Now if the Church of Antiech had been minded to refer the resolution to the Apostles as infallibles Apostle, they would never have referred it to the Elders, whom they knew could err as well as themselves, nor would the Elders have joined as fellow-disputers with the Apostles as Apostles, as they expressly do, v. 6. for that is as you would say, some country men of ordinary spirit destitute of all prophetical light concurred with Esaiah to see the visions of God; And it is as if David as king counsel at God, whether the men of Keilah would deliver him up to Saul, had consulted with God and with Abiathar, and some four or five Elders of Keilah void of all prophetical spirit, whether the men of Keilah should deliver him up to Saul, or no: for these Elders of Jerusalem and Antioch and other brethren were as void of an Apostolic spirit as the Elders of Keilah were of a Prophetical spirit. It were a vain action for the Elders to join themselves as joynt-disputers and fellow-resolvers of the controversy with the Apostles, for the fellow-resolvers were to seek resolution at the Apostles, who could as Apostles infallibly resolve them. 2. What the Apostles set down is Scripture, and is the object of our faith, and written for our instruction, Ergo, the Apostles did give it forth in the Synod as Scripture, it followeth not: I may preach Scripture, and that which is the object of faith, and written for our instruction, Ergo, I preach it as an Apostle by an Apostolic spirit, it followeth not; for so if the Elders had spoken Scripture which is written for our instruction, the Elders should have spoken it by an Apostolic spirit, which is manifestly false; and so if the Elders of Corinth, 1 Cor. 5. should have proven in their Presbytery that the incestuous person should be delivered to Satan, from Matth. 18. they should have spoken that in the presbytery by an Apostolic Spirit: all which are manifestly false. The holy Ghost by Luke did make it Scripture formally, but that the Apostles spoke it as Scripture by an Apostolic spirit, because it is the object of our faith that Luke did insert it in the Canonical history, is no more hence proven than one might infer that Gamaliel by the immediate inspiration of the Spirit spoke the oration that he uttereth to the council of Priests and Pharisees, Act. 5. 34, 35. & c. for that is formally made Scripture by Luke his inserting of it in the Register of Scripture; yea the words of Satan, Matth. 4. by that reason behoved to be spoken by divine and immediate inspiration: but the truth is, we are not to take what Peter speaketh from the Prophet Amos, Act. 15. v. 16. to be Scripture, because Amos spoke it in the Old Testament, but because Luke by immediate inspiration saith that Peter uttered these words from the Prophet Amos. Immediate inspiration maketh any saying Scripture, and not the Apostles historical relating of it out of the writings of the Prophets, though the sayings of the Prophets as they are registered in the books of Old Testament be formally Scripture, yet as cited by the Apostles they d●e not become Scripture, except these saying, be cited, tali modo, that is, by the influence of the immediately inspiring holy Ghost, which influence only maketh formally any saying to be Scripture. Object. 12. If the Apostles did not in a Synod, with the Elders dispute and voice as Apostles, it should follow that as Apostles, they did plant Churches, but after the Churches were planted they ceased to be Apostles, and did all as ordinary Elders, which is most incongruous, for than should they descend from an infallible to a fallible spirit. Answ. The Apostles did only use their Apostolic power, when there was need of it; as God worketh not miracles, but in some necessitating exigence of second causes: and what they could do by an ordinary power, when the Churches were once constituted, they did not attempt to do by their Apostolic power; and though their Apostolic power was in them as a habit, yet the exercise thereof was rather under the dominion of an extraordinary and immediate rapt and influence of God, then under the mastery of their own freewill. I would ask why the Church of Antioch, no doubt most lawfully, Act. 15. 2. did send to seek resolution at the fallible spirit of Elders, and also (as our brethren teach) at the infallible spirit of the Apostles? and why did they not from their infallible and Apostolic spirit seek out and choose seven men to be Deacons, but remitted to the fallible spirit of the multitude who are not infallible or Apostolic in their choice, both the nomination and election of these seven men; but the Apostles did much honour the Churches of Christ in cooperating with them, and in doing most things with their consent, that by example they might interdict dominion, and assert a ministerial power, and make Christ most Monarchlike in the government of his spiritual Kingdom: nor did they put off, or interdict themselves, nor forfeit their Apostolic power, after Churches were constituted, but used their Apostolic power at the Commandment of that great King exalted Jesus Christ, whose Catholic Ambassador's they were, as God immediately moved them. Object. 13. Paul exercised the power of the Keys of knowledge upon Barbarians, and might have preached to Indians, and did pres●h to the scefling Athenians. Ergo, he might exercise power of jurisdiction over them, and judge those who are without, it is no consequence, and against the word of God, 1 Cor. 5. 12. Yea Paul by this power dogmatic rebuked the Athenians, Act. 17. 22. I perceive that in Mr. Mather against Mr. Herle, c. 4 p. 43, 44. all things ye are too superstitious, yet Paul had no power to excommunicate the Athenians. Mr. Mather. Answ. I deny not, but there is great odds betwixt a concional rebuking, by way of preaching, which may be, and is always performed by one, and a juridical rebuking by a power juridical of the Keys, which is performed only by a Church-s●ci●tie: now it cannot be denied but the rebuking of men, because they subverted souls, v. 24. is not a mere concional rebuking, which may be performed by one; 1. it is a rebuking, v. 24. (2) it is a rebuking performed by many, by a whole Synod, v. 6. v. 22. (3) It is performed by a political society and body having a dogmatic power to judge and determine in a doctrinal way, as our brethren say, and consequently as we say, having a juridical power, v. 25. It seemed good unto us, being assembled with one accord, to send chosen men unto you, etc. which is undeniably a political body, an assembled company, as v. 6. met about a question which concerneth the Churches of Christ, as is clear, v. 2. v. 6. v. 23. c. 16. 4, 5. c. 21. 25. compared with v. 22. hence a business of doctrine which troubleth the Churches of Antioch, c, 15. 2. and of Jerusalem, v. 5, 6, 7, 8. and Syria and Cilicia, v. 23, 24. must be a church-business in respect of the subject. 2. The question is a Church-question in the matter of practice, it cono●rneth the consciences of the Churches in the point of taking and giving offence, in a church-society as this doth, v. 19 That ye trouble not them which amongst the Gentiles are turned unto God, and v. 28, 29. compared with 1 Cor. 10. 24, 25, 26, 27, & c. Rom. 14. 14, 15. this was a Church-●candall or public offence, as touching the matter, materia qu●nt. (2) The form and manner of deciding the controversy was a public Churchway by the Word of God, Act. 15. so 〈◊〉 proveth, v. 7, 8. 9 and James, v. 15, 16, etc. maketh good. (4) The efficient causes and agents in the question, are 1. Church- 〈◊〉, v. 6. Apostles and Elders. 2. Church-officers convened churchways in a Church-body or society, v. 6. c. 15. and The Apostles and Elders came together (in a Synod, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, a word which cur brethren acknowledgeth doth, 1 Cor. 5. 4. note a formal Church-assembly) to consider of this matter, and ●, 25. It seemed good to us being assembled with one accord, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, and the very word Church is not wanting though with reverence of others, it seemeth not to be the multitude, seeing the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, being so general, must have its signification from the action and end, for which the meeting is intended, as before I said) as is clear, v. 22. It pleased the Apostles, Elders, and whole Church. 5. The action they perform, when they are met in a political body, is to decide a Church-controversie, that troubled many Churches, Act. 15. 2. v. 23, 24. (6) The end is the peace and edifying of the Churches, as that the Churches of the Gentiles be not troubled with needless ceremonies, as James saith, v. 19 and the good of the Churches, v. 29. from which if you keep yourselves, ye shall do well, c. 16. 4. And ●s they went through the cities they delivered them the Decrees to 〈◊〉, v. 5. so were the Churches established in the faith. Consider 〈◊〉 is the happy end and fruit of this Synod; The establishing of the Churches. Therefore have our brethren without reason (I speak with reverence of their learning and godlinese) denied the word Church to be given to a Synod, or a meeting of Elders, which to me is clear, Act. 15. v. 6. The 〈◊〉 sending is the Eldership of Antioch; the Church recei●●●, v. 4. is the Eldership at Jerusalem, and cannot conveniently be exponed of the whole and numerous thousands that ●●e●ed at Jerusalem; the rebuking cannot then be merely ●●●●inall by the power of the keys of knowledge which is exercised by one, nor are the Apostles and Elders here considered as merely Preachers and Teachers in the Act of teacher, for why then should they not be formally a Church and a Church-assembly, as our Brethren say, if they be an assembly meeting for preaching the Word? for the exercise of the keys of Knowledge in the hearing of a multitnde is essentially an act of preaching the Word. Object. 14. This Synod declares only in a doctrinal way what is necessary, what is scandalous, the same way, that Paul doth, Rom. 14. 14, 15. ay Cor. 8. 1 Cor. 10. Answ. This Synod and Paul declare one and the same thing, Ergo, with one and the same authority, it followeth not; Paul writeth, 1 Cor. 5. that the incestuous man should be excommunicated, and this he wrote as canonical Scripture, by the immediate inspiration, of the holy Spirit, if then the Church of Corinth should have excommunicated him, shall it follow that they gave out the sentence of excommunication by the immediate inspiration of the holy Spirit? I think not, their Church's sentence had been given out by a mere ecclesiastical authority, according to the which Churches of Christ to the world's end doth excommunicate, following the Church of Corinth as a pattern. Obj. 15. Though these obtruders of ceremonies did pervent so●ks, v. 24. yet the Synod doth not summoned them before them, nor excommuncite them, but remit them to the particular Churches to whom it properly belonged to censure, and not to any Synod, or superior Judicature. Answ. There was no need to summon them, for these subverters of souls were personally present at the Synod, and rebuked in the face of the Synod as perverters of souls, v. 24. for if they were not present; 1. to whom doth Peter speak, v. 10. Now therefore why tempt ye God to put a yoke on the neck of the disciples, etc. the Apostles and Elders did not impose the yoke of Moses Law upon the believing disciples, nor any other, save only the obtruders of circumcision. 2. Who were they in the Synod who made much disputing? v. 7. note the Apostles, not any save these obtruders. Ergo, they were personally present at the Synod, nor needed they to excommunicate them, for I judge that they acquiesced to the determination of James, which was the sentence of the Synod, and the great dispute spoken of, v. 7. ceased, v. 13. and the conclusion is agreed upon, 22. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 than it seemed good to the Apostles, Elders and whole Church, and there was reason why these obtruders should acquiesce, so that there was no need of further censure, for there was satisfactiou in part given to both siddes. The question was, whether or no are believers now to keep the Law and the ceremonies of Moses his Law? It was answered by the Synod, by a distinction which favoured, in part, both sides, 1. There is no necessity that the believing Gentiles who are saved by grace as well as the Jews be troubled to keep all the ceremonies, and this satisfied the Apostles who taught that the Gentiles were now made one people with the Jews, and both are freed in conscience from Moses his yoke, the other part of the distinction it was this, yet there be some ceremonial commandments, as not to eat things offered to Idols, blood, and things strangled, (for fornication is of another nature, and abstinence therefrom is of perpetual necessity, 1 Cor. 6. 13, 14, 15, 16. 1 Thess. 4. 3. Col. 3. 5.) these must be avoided, for scandals sake, by all the Jews, but especially by the Gentiles, lest the weak Jews, who take these to be divine commandments yet in force, take offence, and this was satisfactory to the obtruders, and we hear no more of their disputing, and there is an end of the controversy by the blessed labours of a lawful Synod. 3. I could easily yield that there is no necessity of the elicit acts of many parts of government, such, as excommunication, ordination, admitting of heathens professing the faith to Church-membership, in Synods provincial, national or ecumenical, but that Synods in the case of neglect of presbyteriall-Churches, command these particular Churches whom it concerneth, to do their duty, and in this sense the Synod, Act. 15. is to remit the censure of excommunication to the presbytery of Antioch and Jerusalem, in the case of the obstinacy of these obtruders of circumcision, but so some power of government is due to the Synod, as prescribing of Laws and Canons for presbyteries and Congregations. Object. 16. Therefore was the Synagogue of the Jews no complete Church, because all the ordinances of God cannot be performed in the Synagogue, and therefore were the Jews commanded only at Jerus salem and in no other place to keep the passover, and to offer offerings and sacrifices, which were òrdinary worship, Deut. 12. but there is not any worship or sacred ordinance, (saith that a Aims Medul. Theolo. lib. 1. c. 38. ch. 37. lib. 1. 39 these 26. worthy Divine Dr. Ames) of preaching, praying, Sacraments, & c. prescribed, which is not to be observed in every Congregation of the New Testament: Nor is there any ordinary minister appointed who is not given to some one Assembly of this kind. So also b A modest and brotherly answer to Mr. Herle, c. 2. p. 12. 13. Mr. Mather and Mr. Thomson, teachers in New England. Others say because there was a representative worship of sacrificing of all the 12. Tribes at Jerusalem, therefore all the Synagogues were dependent Churches, and Jerusalem was the supreme and bighest Church, but there is no representative worship in the New Testament, and therefore no need of Synods, as higher Churches. Answ. Surely the aforesaid reverend Brethren of New England have these words, c Ib. c. 1. pag. 8. But it seemeth to us that the power (of a Synod) is not proporly a power and exercise of government and jurisdiction, but a power of doctrine, and so a Synod is rather a ●aching then a governing Church; from which I infer; 1. That out Brethren cannot deny a power of governing to a Synod, but it is not so proper governing, as excommunication and ordination performed in their Congregations, but (say I) it is more properly governing, as to make Laws and rules of governing, is a more noble, eminent and higher act of governing (as is evident in the King and his Parliament) than the execution of these Laws and rules. 2. Our brethren incline to make a Synod a teaching Church; but I infer that Synodical teaching by giving out decrees tying many Churches, as our Brethren of d Church-government of New-England, Answer to q. 14. pag. 43, 44. New England, and the forenamed e Mr Mather & Mr. Thomson Answer to Mr. Herle, c. 4 pag. 40, 41, sig. authors teach, is an ordinance of Christ that can be performed in no single Congregation on earth, for a doctrinal Canon of one Congregation can lay no ecclesiastical tie upon many Churches. Ergo, by this reason our Congregations shall be dependent, as were the Jewish Synagogues. 3. With favour of these learned men it is a begging of the question to make Jerusalem the supreme Church, and the Synagogues dependent Churches, because it was lawful only at Jerusalem to sacrifice, for I hold that Jerusalem was a dependent Church no less than the smallest Synagogue in all the tribes, for in a Catholic meeting of all Judah for renewing a Covenant with God, jerusalem was but a sister Church, with all of judah, Benjamin, Ephraim, Manasseh, who 2 Chron. 15. 9 10. 11, 12. made up one great Church which did swear that Covenant. Ordinances do not formally make Churches visible, nor divers ordinances divers Churches; profession of the truth formally constituteth a visible Church, and Church union in ordinances and government, and this was alike in the Synagogues and in jerusalem. It was a thing merely typical that at jerusalem only, and in the Temple only should there be offerings and sacrifices, because in Christ God-man, all our worship and service and prayers are accepted of the Father, but (I pray you) did this instampe jerusalem with any note of Church-supremacy above the meanest Synagogue in all Israel and judah? I see it not, all the Synagogues and all the land were members of the national Church, and every one a member of his own Synagogue, the persons processing the truth and dwelling at jerusalem had no supremacy over the Synagogues, because they did inhabit that typical place, but the Priests and Levites were indeed servants to all the land, in offering sacrifices, and in governing in the Synedry either the greater, or the less, but these professors who did constitute the visible Church at jerusalem had no Church supremacy at all for their relation to the Temple, their cohabitation or bodily contiguity was no Church-relation then or now; and that these of the Synagogues behoved to worship in some solemn acts only at jerusalem, did no more give supremacy to the inhabitants of jerusalem to be a Church over them, than the Synagogues could claim supremacy over the inhabitants of jerusalem, for the inhabitants of jerusalem were tied to worship there, and in no other place, and to stand to the determinntion of the great Synodrie without appeal, because there was not a Catholic visible Church in the world but the Church of the jews; and this argument with as great force of reason might conclude that all the cities and incorporations of England are in government dependent and subordinate to London and the suburbs, because they are subordinate to the honourable Houses of Parliament, if we should suppone that Westminster by a standing Law of the Kingdom were the unalterable seat where the Parliament can fit, and in no other place, which yet could prove nothing, seeing London and the suburbs are in their government no less subordinate to the Parliament, than the meanest village and town in England, and therefore I see no ground, because some representative worship was tied to Jerusalem, to give Jerusalem a Church-supremacie, 2. because one Congregation doth pray for another that is under pestilence and diseases, and praises God for the deliverance from these evils which also is a sort of representative worship (every Church and person partaking of a Christian priesthood to offer up prayers and praises one for another) it will not (as I conceive) prove that one Congregation hath Church-supremacie, and power of jurisdiction over another. Because 1. all Israel was alike circumcised; 2. all alike the called people of God, in covenant with God; 3. all had claim to the Altar, Sacrifices, Temple, Ark, etc. 4. All alike professed their subjection to God, to Priests and Prophets in these same ordinances, whether typical, or judicial, or moral, therefore every Synagogue alike at jerusalem, at Dan or Bersheba, were alike congregational Churches, without dependence one upon another, and all depended upon the whole national Church, and on the Synodries supreme, subordinate, and the Synagogue-government according to their subordinations respectively; and I see no national Church in Israel peculiar to them, or typical, more than there is a national Church in Scotland or England, though God put some distinguishing typical notes upon their government, yet it never made either the invisible or visible Church of the jews to differ in nature and essence from the Christian Churches. Object. 17. From the power of jurisdiction, in a Synod, you may infer a power of jurisdiction, in a national Church, and a power of jurisdiction in the whole Christian world, and we know not any Political Church Catholic and visible in Scripture, and if then were any such Church Catholic, then might they convene and sweart a Catholick-covenant for uniformity of doctrine, worship, and government of the Church, as we have done in Britain, and this Catholic Church might impose it, upon a national Church, even by that same Law of proportion, by which the national Church may impose it on particular Churches which are parts of the national Church. Answ. I see not how the consequence holdeth every way good, that as we infer from a juridical power in a presbytery, the same power juridical in a Synod, and the same in a national Assembly, that therefore we may infer the same juridical power in an Oecumenick council: and the reasons of the disparity I take to be these; 1. The farther remote in local distance of place that Churches be, (as it falleth out in the Catholic visible Church) the danger of scandalising one another, by visible communion, and so the opportunity of edifying one another is the less, and so the communion visible is the less, and consequently the power of jurisdiction is the less. 2. An universal and oecumenick council of all the visible Churches on earth, is an act of the visible Church which supposeth all the visible Churches on earth to be in that moral perfection of soundness of faith, of concord and unity, that some one Congregation or classical presbytery of Elders according to God's heart may be in, which moral perfection perhaps is not the facto attainable, (though it be not physically impossible) in this life, except we suppose the heavenly days of Christ's visible reign on earth a thousand years, when yet there shall be no Temple nor external ministry, of which state I cannot now dispute, and therefore I conceive these sixteen hundred years there never was an integral and perfect oecumenick council of all the Churches on earth, and therefore if we should dispute of the juridical power of such a Catholic assembly whether it may impose an oecumenick and Catholic oath on a national Church against their will, and excommunicate a national Church, is but a needless and a Ch●mericall dispute, and it includeth two contradictory suppositions. 1. That all the Churches on earth are of one sound faith, worship, doctrine and Church-government, and yet one national Church is supposed to be heterodox, scandalous, and obstinate, so that that whole national Church must be constrained to take a lawful oath and must be excommunicated; such an hypothesis is not possible where the Gospel is preached, for even the whole Romish Church in all its members deserveth not excommunication, in respect we are sure God hath thousands in the bosom of that Church; who believe in Christ, and do not defend popery with obstinacy, and such an hypothesis is contradicent to the supposition of the soundness of faith and unity of all Christian Churches on earth, and therefore I plainly deny that Christ hath given the like power of jurisdiction to the Catholic visible Church, that he hath given to a national Church, over a provincial Church or Synod, and to a Synod over a classical Presbytery; yea I much doubt if a Catholic council can formally excommunicate a national Church, though such a council may use a power analogical like to the power of excommunication. Object. 18. But you cannot demonstrate from God's Word, that there is such a thing in the New Testament, as a Catholic visible Church. Answ. I said something of this before, but I conceive the subject of the 1 Cor. 12. is a Catholic, visible Church, But, 1. we do not understand a political body with ordinary visible government from one man who maketh himself the vicar of Christ, the Pope, whose members are Cardinals, Bishops, & c. and such like. But the Catholic body mystical of Jesus Christ, and that as visible: and 1. that the Apostle is to be understood of an universal, not of a congregational and particular politic Church that meeteth in one place, is clear; 1. he speaketh of that Church wherein are diversities of gifts for the good of the whole Catholic body, as miracles, the gift of prophecy, the gift of interpretation, the gift of healing, etc. of whom he saith, v. 5, 6. there is the same spirit, and the same God, who worketh all in all, the particular Congregation is not such an all in all. 2. He speaketh of such a Church as taketh in all baptised into one spirit, but this is the whole visible Church, not one single Congregation only. 3. He speaketh of such a Church as taketh in all, both Jews and Gentiles, making them one body, v. 13. and that taketh in all the world. 4. He speaketh of such a Church as hath an adequat and full relation to Christ, from which this Church is denominated Christ mystical, all the believers meeting in one mystical body of Christ, as lines in one centre, v. 12. now a single Congregation hath not a foot to fill this measure. 5. He speaketh of such a body as hath need of the help one of another, as the head hath need of the feet, v. 15, 16, 17. those of a single Congregation have need of those, who are eyes and ears without the congregation. 6. He speaketh of such a body, as is not to separate in their members, one from another, to make a schism in the body. v. 25. but a single Congregation ought not to separate from the rest of the great body made up of many sister Churches. 7. He speaketh of such a body, the members whereof must care one for another, and suffer one with another, v. 26. now single Congregations are such members of this great body, as must mourn with these that mourn and rejoice with these that rejoice, therefore one single Congregation cannot be this whole body, but its part only. 8. He speaketh of such a body in which God hath set, v. 28. Apostles, Prophets, Teachers, miracles, etc. now Christ hath not wedged in Apostles the Catholic Pastors of the whole world, to one single Congregation, nor hath he confined such a multitude of officers ordinary and extraordinary to one single Congregation. And that he speaketh here of a Catholic visible Church is clear; 1. He speaketh of such a body, to which is given the manifestation of the spirit to profit withal, v. 7. this must be a visible policy. 2. He speaketh of a political and organical body, having eyes, ears, hands, feet, etc. which must be a visible ministry. 3. He speaketh of a body capable of the seals, such as Baptism, v. 13. We all are baptised by one spirit into one body, this must be a visible baptised body; discerned by the visible character of baptism from all societies of Jews, Pagans, and others who profess not Christ Jesus. 4. He speaketh of such a body as standeth in need of the help one of another, as the eye cannot say to the hand, I have no need of the, v. 21. this evidently cryeth that he supposeth a visible and external policy in this body. 5. He speaketh of a body so tempered of God, as that there should be no schism in the body, nor separation from it, v. 25. now this cannot be a separation from the invisible body of Christ, for so hypocrites which are members of this visible body, and are often officers, as eyes and ears, yea Pastors, and Teachers remaining in the body without any schism or separation, are yet separatists from the invisible body of Christ, and no more parts of that body, than a wooden leg or arm is a member of a living man. 6. He speaketh of that body which is to express its care in praying, praising, mourning and rejoicing with the rest of the members as they are in a good or adverse condition of prosperity or adversity, v. 23, 26. and this must be a visible Church praying or praising God. 7. He speaketh of such a Church as the fellow members may see and know by their senses, to suffer, and be in a hard condition, or to rejoice, as v. 25. 26. and this is more than apparently clear to be a visible Church. 8. He speaketh of such a Church as God hath furnished with several officers, in several orders visibly known to be different officers, as v. 28. Now God hath set some in the Church, first Apostles, secondarily Prophets, thirdly teachers, these be parts and most eminent and considerable organs of a visible Church. And the like I might prove by divers of these arguments of that body political of which the Apostle speaketh, Rom. 12. 3, 4, 5, 6. to the end of the Chapter. These special exceptions there be against this. 1. That the Church, 1 Cor. 12. is the invisible and mystical body of Christ, because it is a body baptised by one spirit. 2. A body called Christ, that is Christ mystical. Answ. It is true that this visible body hath also an inward and spiritual baptising, answerable to the external and outward baptising, and so according to that internal and mystical union it is an invisible body, as these reasons prove: but the question is, if the Apostle speak of the body of Christ in that notion, we deny that, for he speaketh plainly here of the Church, as it is a political, organical and visible body. Object. 2. If one should say, God hath placed in the commonwealth Emperors, Kings, Dukes, Princes and Rulers, as the eyes and ears of the Commonwealth, it should no ways follow that all the Commonwealths in the earth are one visible civil body having a government, so though it he said God hath placed in the spiritual Commonwealths of the Church Apostles, Prophets, Teachers, etc. it followeth not that the Church is all one spiritual, politic visible body, it followeth only that the Lord hath placed in the Church Apostles, Prophets, Teachers indefinitely, that is, that these may be in any one single Congregation, as it is said, James 2. 2. If there come into your Assembly, or Synagogue, a man with a gold Ring, etc. now this will not prove that all the dispersed Jews, to whom James wrote, were all but one Congregation. Answ. 1. It is true, if any should say, God hath placed in the Commonwealth Emperors, Kings, Dukes, Princes, it should not follow that Commonwealths are one body, even Jews, Gentiles, Barbarians, Americans, because there is not this external union of visible Communion in the Commonwealths of the earth, as there is in the Churches; but if one should say, God hath placed Emperors, Kings, Dukes, Princes in the Commonwealths, as in one organical body, having one head who hath given influence to so many Orgins of head feet, hands, eyes, ears, etc. as the Apostle speaketh of this body of the Church, he should then say all the Commonwealths of the world made but one body, but this indefinite speech must, by good logic, have the virtue either of an universal or a particular proposition, as if I say (The Church hath seated in it Apostles, Prophets, Teachers, etc.) you mean either the Cathlick visible Church, or the particular Congregation, or 3. some Church betwixt these two: our brethren cannot say they mean of a middle Church, for than they grant (contrary to their own principles) a political visible Church, beside a Congregation; if they say the first, we have what we crave; if they say that the Congregation hath seated in it Apostles, Prophets, they fall in the former absurdity, for God hath placed Apostles, in the whole Christian world. Object. 3. When the Apostle saith, v. 21. The head cannot say to the feet, I have no need of you; either must we acknowledge here that ●ee meaneth the head of a Congregation, to wit a Pastor, or a Doctor, and so he speaketh here of a Congregation; or if he speak of the Catholic Church, than Estius his argument may stand in force to 〈◊〉 the Pope to be the head of the Church; for Estius exponing these needs (The head cannot say to the feet, I have no need of you) by the head of the Catholic Church (saith he) you either understand Christ the principal head, or then, some mortal man, the Pope, who is a ministerial head; the former you cannot say, because Christ being God, and also man perfectly happy, he may say to all the members of his Church great and small, yea to the very Angels, I have no need of you; for he can sanctify and govern his Church without the ●●d, the Sacraments, or any ministers, therefore the head which 〈◊〉 in need of the feet, must be the ministerial head the Pope, 〈◊〉 standeth in need of the feet for the governing of the body in a ministerial way. I answer, there is no reason for a Popish argument to leave the truth, for this argument shall no less militate against cur brethren, then against us, because it shall prove that there is a ministerial head and Pope in every Congregation, which is no less absurd than to make a Catholic head over all the visible Catholic Church. Secondly, as for the argument it is easily answered, for the Apostle here useth a comparison from the natural body, and there is no ground to press every to●, lithe and sinew of a comparison; and we deny that the word (head) here doth signify literally either Pastor or Bishop, for the eye also being that which watcheth and seeth for the whole body should also signify the Pastor, but the intent of the Spirit of God is, that the most eminent members which are as the eyes & the head, whether their eminency be excellency of saving grace, called, gratia gratum faciens, or excellency of gifts, called, gratia gratis data, they have need of the gifts and graces of others inferiors and of meaner parts, and there is neither ministerial head, nor ministerial feet, nor ministerial eyes in the Text. Object. 4. To every visible Church there should be a Paster to feed and rule that Church, if then there be here a Catholic visible Church, there's should also be a Catholic visible Pastor, & that is a Pope. Answ. That to every Church meeting 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 into one place, for Word and Sacraments, there should be one Pastor only and a supreme one, I deny; there may be more Pastors than one, but that to every Catholic Church there should be one head most eminent, that is far rather to be denied, for this is so great a flock that there be a necessity of multitude of Pastors and watchmen to attend so Catholic a flock. Object. 19 You teach that the government of consociated Churches is warranted by the light of nature, which if it be true, surely this light of nature being common to us, in civil, as in ecclesiastical ca●ses, then by nature's light every city governed with rulers within itself, is suberdinate to a Class of many cities, and that Class to a national meeting of all the cities, and the nation must in its government be subordinate to a Catholic or ●ecumenick civil court, and Mr. Mather and Mr. Thomson, answ. to Mr. Herle, c. 2. p. 16 and p. 20. this same way may appeals ascend in civil courts; and because by the same light of nature (saith Mr. Mather, and Mr. Thomson) there must be some final and supreme judgement of controversies le●t ●ppeaks should be spun out in infinitum, it must be proved that this sup●em 〈◊〉 lieth not in a Congregation. Answ. 1. Appeals being warranted by the moral counsel which Je●hro gave to Moses, in which there is nothing typical or ●remoniall, but a pattern that all Commonwealths on earth, without any danger of Judaizing may fellow, cannot but be (as Whittaker hath observed) natural, and supposing that God hath given warrant in his word, for Monarchies, which are known by God's appointment to be independent, as also the government of all free and unconquered States are, it doth follow by the light of nature, that appeals in all states are natural, and that God hath appointed that the supremacy should lie within the bounds of every free Monarchy or State, so that there can be no appeal to any ecumenical or Catholic civil Court, for that is against the independent power that God hath given to States; but in the Church it is far otherwise, for God hath appointed no visible Monarchy in his Church, nor no such independency of policy within an congregation classical, provincial or national Church and therefore though appeals be warranted both in Church and State, by the light of nature, yet appeals to exotic and foreign judicatures is not warranted by any such light, but rather contrary thereunto. 2. Church-appeales, though warranted by the light of nature, yet it is supposed they be rational, and grounded on good reason, as that either the matter belong not to the congregation, or then it be certain or morally presumed the Congregation will be partial and unjust, or the business be difficile and intricate, and if appeals be grcundlesse and unjust, neither Christ, nor nature's light doth warrant them, yea in such a case the supremacy, from which no man can lawfully appeal, lieth sometime in the Congregation, sometime in the classical presbytery, so as it is unlawful to appeal, for illud tantumpossumus quod jure possumus, and neither Christ nor nature's light doth warrant us to unjust appeals, or to any thing against equity and reason: but that supremacy of power should be in a Congregation without any power of appealing, I think our brethren cannot teach; for when the Church of Antioch cannot judge a matter concerning the necessity of keeping Moses his Law, or any difficile dogmatic point, they by nature's direction, Act. 15. 2. decree to send Pau ', Barnabas and others to Jerusalem to the Apostles and Elders, as to a higher judicature, that their truth may be determined, and this they did without any positive law that we can imagine: for a Mr. Mather and Mr. Thomson Answer to Mr. Herle c. 4 p. 42. Mr. Mather and Mr. Thomson, as also b Church-government and Church-covenant of New England, Answ. to quest. 14. p. 44. the Author of the Church government of New England teach that the Church of Antioch had, jus, power to judge and determine the controversy, but because of the difficulty had not light ●o judge thereof; Ergo they must acknowledge appeals by nature's light warrantable as well as we, for suppose we, that a Congregation inclineth to this (that Arminianism is the sound doctrine of grace opposite to Stoicism) one man is cited before the Congregation for holding the contrary, he knoweth all the Congregation in those points to be Pelagians, would not our brethren say, that this man so unjustly accused for holding the truth against the enemies of grace may appeal to a Synod? I think they must teach this by their grounds, though by the way I think the brethren err in this to teach that Antioch had power to determine the controversy, Act. 15. in this case; 1. when the Churches of Syria and Cilicia, to their knowledge, were troubled with the like question, as v. 24. may clear; 2. when as the party against the truth was so prevalent within the Church of Antioch, Act. 15. 2. as that they opposed the Apostle Pau ', and Barnabas, also in this case I doubt much if they had power to determine a question, that so much concerned all the Churches, for that was proper to a Synod of many Churches. 2. When the greatest part of a Church, as Antioch, is against the truth, as is clear, Act. 15. 2. I believe in that they lose their jus, their right to determine ea●enus, in so far, for Christ hath given no ecclesiastical right and power to determine against the truth, but only for the truth, and therefore in this, appeals must be necessary. Mr. Mather and Mr. Thomson against Herle, c. 2. p. 17. 18. say we do much Judaizein that we multiply appeals upon appeals, from the Congregation to a Class, then to a Synod, then to a national assembly, then to an ●eckmenick council, and this way, while the world endureth, causes are never determined, and Synods cannot always be had, even as in Jerusalem the supreme judicature was far remote from all proselytes, as from the Eunuch of Aethiopia, Act. 8. and from the remotest parts of the holy Land; But God hath provided better for us, in the New Testament, where every Congregation, which is at hand, may decide the controversy. Answ. 1. The speediness of ending controversies in a congregation, is badly compensed with the suddenness and temerity of delivering men to Satan, upon the decision of three Elders, without so much as ask advise of any classes of Elders, and with deciding questions deep and grave, that concerneth many Churches, which is a putting a private sickle in a common and public harvest. 2. All appeals without just warrant from Christ's will, we condemn, as the abuse of appeals to a court, which is known shall never be. 3. Antioches appeal to a Synod two hundreth miles distant (as our brethren say) in so weighty a question, was no Judaizing, but that which Paul and the Apostles was guilty of, as well as we. 4. Matters concerning many Churches must be handled by many. The Doctrine of the Presbyterial Churches of Jerusalem, Corinth, Ephesus, Antioch, vindicated. We are convinced from the numerous multitude of believers, and the multitude of Pastors at this famous and mother Church of the Christians at Jerusalem, to believe the frame and mould was presbyterial, and that it cannot be so much as imagined or dreamt that it was moulded to the pattern of one single Congregation which could all meet 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 into one place. The frame of an independent single Congregation is such as no more do meet ordinarily in one house, then may conveniently be edified, in partaking of one Word, and one breaking of bread, that is, one Table at the Supper of the Lord; nor can we imagine that the first mould of a Christian visible Church was so inconvenient as that it crossed edification and conversion, which is the formal effect of a Church-meeting: Now the multitude was such as could not, neither morally; nor physically, meet in one house. For at one Table many thousands and multiplied thousands could not mere and therefore consider their number; they were, Act. 1. a hundreth and twenty met in one place, but I shall not be of the opinion that this was all, seeing, 1 Cor. 15. 6. Christ after his resurrection was seen of Cephas, then of the twelve, after that he was seen of above five hundreth brethren; then in one day at one Sermon about three thousand souls, Act. 2. 42. and ch. 4. 4. though they were apprehended who preached the Gospel, yet many of them which heard the Word believed, and the number of the men was about five thousand. I deny not but worthy Calvin saith, id potius de tota ecclesia, quam de nova accessione intelligendum, this was the whole number including the three thousand that were converted, c. 2. but first he saith, Potius, he inclineth rather to this opinion: but secondly the Text saith of those which heard the word, it would seem to me, at the second Sermon of Peter, and a Augustine,: rac 39 in joan. Augustine, b Chrysostom. hom. 1. hom. 33. in Matth. chrysostom, c Beda in Act. 10. 5. Matth. 14. Bed●, d Basilius' homil. Ps. 115. Basilius, e Oecu●enius, in loc. Oecumenius, f Hieronymus in Esa. c. 1. et c. 11. in illa adjiciet dominus secundo manu●n. Hieronym. g Ireneus, l. 1. c. 11. Ireneus make this number divers from the former, so do h Cornelius a lapide, diversa pro●sus sunt hae e quinque millia, a tribus millibus prima concione conversis, c. 2. Cornelius a Lap. i Salmer● in loc. distinctus numerus ab illo c. 2. Salmeron, k Staplet. in Antido. Apostolic. c. 4. Stapletonus, (l) Sanctius, m Lorinus non in tribus millibus computanda haec millia. Lorinus, n Lyran. in loc. Lyranus, o Cajetan. in loc. Cajetanus; but we shall not contend about the matter, nor yet whether the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 includeth women, which it often doth in the Greek, as 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in Demosthenes doth also; yet the wisdom of God in the Apostles cannot admit us to imagine that five thousand could ordinarily meet to the Word, Sacraments, and government in one house, and after this many thousands were added to this Church. 1. Our brethren say, it is one thing to say that they could not meet in one place by reason of extrinsecall impediments of persecution, and through want of a capacious and large room, and another thing to say, that it was impossible that they could be one Congregation, and meet in one place, for though we prove they could not meet because of persecution, we do not prove that they were so numerous that they could not conveniently meet in one place. Answ. Though it be evident that the Apostles were persecuted, cast in prison, and beaten, Act. 4. 3. c. 5. 18. 26. 33. 40. it is as evident that they had Assemblies, and Churches meetings, Act. 2. 37. 41. 46. c. 4. 1, 2, 3. c. 5. 10. v. 25. now the question than is not if they could not meet, for extrinsecall impediments of persecution; for both our brethren and we agree in this, that they had their Church-assemblies for Word and Sacraments, than the question is upon the supposal of Church assembles, which the persecution of the Jews then fearing the people was not able to hinder, c. 5. 26, whether or no was the Church at Jerusalem of such a competent number, only as that they could meet not occasionally only to hear a Sermon, but in an ordinary Church-meeting to hear the Word, and communicate in the breaking of bread, and seals of the Covenant; and though the want of a capacious house be also an extrinsecall impediment why they could not meet, yet that they wanted such a capacious house as the Temple, will prove nothing, but it cannot be said that they wanted a capacious house for the ordinary meeting of a Congregation, the ordinary and genuine use whereof is to be edified by the Word and Sacraments, and that an ordinary house could contain such a number of thousands and multitudes as can be edified in a congregational way, is denied. 2. Our brethren say; that they did not eat the Supper in private houses, for the breaking of bread, Act. 2. 46. was common bread, and they had the use of the Temple, and taught in the Temple, for the Senate of the Jews durst not extend their malice to the highest, Act. 5. 26. for they feared the people, and Act. 4. 21. So when they had s●●●her threatened them, they let them go, finding nothing how they might punish them because of the people; for all men glorified God, for that which was done, so the people favouring the Apostles, they made use of their liberty to the full, and bad their public meetings for Word and Sacraments in the Temple, and did meet in private houses, Act. 20. 20. in a private way, not in a Church way, So Act. 2. 47. They had favour with all the people. Answ. It is said these believers, v, 44. were 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in one place, and those who, v. 46. did eat bread 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 from house to house, met then being in one place, and (eating of bread from house to house) must be exponed as we do, distributively, that is, divided in small Assemblies, for the argument that we bring militateth against the eating of their common meat in houses, all being in one private house; were three thousand in ●ne place, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, all at one banquet, and that daily? 2. It is true, divers expone the breaking of bread, v. 46. not of the Supper of the Lords yet of the banquets of love where there was an assembly of many; but v. 42. It is clear these three thousand did receive the Supper of the Lord together, and it is so true that the Syriack hath it in his exposition thus 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 un●isht an●hephin bavau but luthi u●aktsa●a deu●ha●rskia, it is memorable, saith Lorinus, that he retaineth the name of Eucharistia, it a Lerinus come in ac. 2. 42. is rendered, Et communica●ant in oratione & fractione Eucharistia, yea and b Lutherus Serm. de Eucharistia. Lutherus and c Calvin, Inst●t. l. 4 c. 17. Calvin both expound it so, and as d Lorinus, ib. Lorinus, e Cajetan. come. ib. Cajetanus, f Corneli. a Lapide. Cornelius a Lapide, they be all spiritual exercises named here. But how can we imagine that many thousands could in one meeting communicate at one Table in the Lord's Supper, and that ordinarily? 1. What voice could reach to so many thousands, as they did grow unto? 2. What Table could suffice to a Congregation of so many thousands added to the Church, for the supper is a Table ordinance, and requireth Table communion, Table gestures, which the Apostles could not so soon remove and change into an Altar, that all might conveniently hear and be edified. 3. Can we believe, that seeing congregational meetings of fewer, and that in private houses, was less obnoxious to the indignation of authority, then meeting in the Temple, as is most evident, Act. 4. 1, 2. and seeing the Apostles had liberty to meet, Act. 5. 26. that they would draw the first mould of the Christian visible Church, after the pattern of a convention most unfit, yea impossible, for attaining the intended end, to w●t, edification, especially not being compelled thereunto, by an extrinsecall necessity. Our brethren say, three thousand, five thousand might all communicate in one place, though not at one time, súccessively, as it is in many numerous Congregations; But I answer 1. after they were five thousand, ch. 4. I dare say, taking in the hundreth and twenty, the five hundreth brethren that all saw Christ at once, 1 Cor. 15. 6. and the fruit of the preaching of the other ten Apostles, all now present at Jerusalem, when the 〈…〉 the Spirit on all flesh, joe. 2. 28, 29. 〈◊〉 15, 16, 17. was now to take effect at this time, there were 〈◊〉 thousand, but after there all it is said, Act. 6. 1. The 〈…〉 were multiplied, v. 7. And the Word of God 〈◊〉, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, The 〈…〉 Disciples grew exceedingly, and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 a great 〈◊〉 the Priests were obedient to the faith; how many of the people were then obedient to the faith? could all these make on: Congregation to eat at one Table? But 2. when they are put to this shift, to say, that they did communicate suc 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Table, and (which must be) not all in one day, than 〈◊〉 brethren grant there was not here such a Congregation as is, 1 Cor. 11. 20 When you come together therefore into one 〈…〉 eat the Lords Supper, 23. Wherefore my brethren 〈…〉 together to eat, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, tarry one for another; when 〈◊〉 come to eat at the love-feasts, especially at the Lord's Supper, saith Di●datus; if every one of the Congregation be to wait on while another come, then in the Apostolic Church all the Congregation came together to the Lords Supper to one place and at one time, and this is not the Congregation where of he speaketh, 1 Cor. 14. 23. if therefore the whole Church c●me together to the same place, and all speak with tongues, 〈…〉 in th●se that are unlearned and unbeleovers, will they 〈…〉 mad? Hence all the Congegration come together to one place, at one time, and the place was so that heathen and unbelievers might come into their worship of the Congregation, but our brethren make the meeting of this Congregation such as they were not to s●ay one for another, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 all at one time, but successively, and so as the whole Congregation could not come to one place at once, but by 〈◊〉 and quarters, and fractions and divided parts, now one 〈◊〉, or two thousand, than another two thousand the next day, for the Apostles then celebrating the supper at night and after Supper, 1 C●r. 11. 21. few thousands should be able to communicate after Supper. 2. There was no necessity, that these wise master-builders should divide the Church, and the first visible Church in so many parts, and this successive communion doth clearly prove our point, that there were many Congregations, for every successive fraction being a competent convention of believers having the Word and Sacraments, and so power of jurisdiction not to admit all promiscuously to the Lords Table, is to our brethren a complete Church, for to it indeed agreeth the essential Characters of a visible instituted Church, for there is here a ministry, the Word and Sacraments, and some power of jurisdiction within itself, and so what lacketh this successive fraction of an entire Congregation? But what ground for so needless a conjecture, that the Apostolic Church did celebrate the Lords Supper in the Temple, never in private houses? The contrary is, Act. 20. 7. And upon the first day of the week the Disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, v. 8. And there were many lights in an upper Chamber, where they were convened, so the Text is clear, the first day of the week, 1 Cor. 16. 1. was the day of the Christians public worship, and a Augustin. ● Epist. 86. Augustine, b Calvin, in loc. Calvin, c Luther. Serm. de Eucharist. Lu●her, d Melancthon. lib de usu Sacrament. Melancthon, Bullinger, e Diodatus. ●nnot. in loc. Diodatus; and so f Lorinus in loc. Lorinus and g Sancks. Sanchius say this was the Lord's Supper, who can imagine that the Apostles did bring so many thousand Christians after Supper to the Temple, to celebrate a new Evangelic feast, and that immediately after Peter's first Sermon, Act. 2. 42? 1. Before the Apostles had informed the Jews, that all their typical and ceremonial feasts were now abolished, yea while they stood in vigour, and the Apostles themselves kept them in a great part? was this like the Spirit of the Gospel, which did bear with Moses his ceremonies for forty years? 2. The Apostles, Act. 4. 1. are indicted before the Synedry, that they taught, in the Temple, Jesus Christ: if they had with so many thousands, gone to the Temple with a new extraordinary ceremonial ordinance as a new Sacrament, so contrary in humane reason, to all the sacred Feasts, Sacrifices, and ceremonies, should not this with the first have been put in their indictment, that they were shouldering Moses out of the Temple? yet are they only accused for teaching the people; yea Christ the Lawgiver, who preached the Gospel daily in the Temple, would not take the last Supper to the Temple, but celebrated it in a private Chamber; and Paul being accused always as an enemy to Moses and the Temple, his enemies the Jews who watched him heedfully, could never put on him, that he celebrated a Sacrament in the Temple: as for Baptism it being a sort of washing, (whereof the Pharisees used many, Matth. 15. Mark. 7.) it was performed often sub di● in rivers, never in the Temple; we desire any author, father, (Ocecumenius doubteth only) Doctor, Divine, Protestant, or Papist, late or old, who said the Apostles celebrated the Supper in the Temple. 3. Our brethren say all, These did conveane 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, for Act. 4. 31. When they had prayed the place was shaken where they were assembled together, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, Act. 2. 46. and they continued daily with one accord in the Temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness. Answ. The place, Act. 4. 31. saith not, that all the five thousand believers were in that one place, which was shaken, for v. 21. that when the Apostles were let go by the Priests and Captains of the Temple they returned to their own company 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, to their own, but no circumstance in the Text doth infer that they came back to the whole five thousand, but only to some few of the first believers, that were converted before the first Sermon of Peter was made, cap. 2, they returned, Lyra and Hugo Cardinalis, to their own company, ad domesticos suos, and so saith Lorinus, who citeth the Syriack 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 hachaiehin ad fratres suos. Salmeron, ad suos ●apostolos, sive condiscipulos & domesticos fidei, and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 doth not signify the whole Church, but friends and domestics, as, Mark. 5. 19 Go home to thy own house and show thy friends, Luke, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 compared with, Luk. 8. 39 and Gal. 6. 10, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, and 1 Tim. 5. 8. therefore the place saith that the five thousand were gathered together in this one place which was shaken. 2. Giving and not granting that they were all convened to prayer, it doth not follow that they did meet ordinarily in one place, for partaking of Word and Sacraments, as one Congregation, for ●oe might convene to prayer and hearing the Word, then could meet ordinarily in a congregational-way. Neither will any Text enforce us to expone 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, collectively, but distributively, as we say, all the Congregations in Scotland met, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, in one, every Lord's day, that is, every one of the Congregations is in one place, but the sense is not that all the Congregations collectively are in one place. And we may justly ask what this place was which was shaken, it is not like that it was the Temple, that which should have been more prodigious like, and presaged a ruin to the Temple, would not have been concealo● by the holy Ghost, for it would have more terrified the Jews, and the Temple is never called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 sine adjecto, without some other thing to make it be known to be the holy place, if it was a private house, give us leave to say it could not contain five thousand to hear prayer, far less a more numerous multitude. We re●it it to the judgement of the wise, if the Apostles were so lazy to propagate the Gospel, that where twelve of them were present undoubtedly, Act. 4. 23 31. Act. 6. 2. and (as many of the learned think, the seventy Disciples) that eleven Apostles did hear the Word only, and one did speak to one Congregation only, which consisted of so many thousands, for to the five thousand, if there were no moe, c. 5. 14. mere believers were added to the Lord, multitudes both of men and women, who could not conveniently hear? This I think not imaginable; for 1. now the harvest was large, thousands were to be converted. 2. The Spirit was now poured upon all flesh. 3. Christ, when he sent the tw●lve but to Jude●, he sent them two and two, and would have every man at work, and the Apostles went out in twoes, Act. 13. Paul and B●rna●as and sometimes but one Peter was sent to the Jews, Paul to the Gentiles, and the world divided amongst them, 1. of other officers Timothy is sent to Ephesus, Titus to Crete, that so they might the more swiftly spread the Gospel to all the world. What wisdom could we imagine would lead the twelve Apostles to speak to one single Congregation met in one place, at one time? the rest, to wit the eleven and the seventic Disciples being silent? for in the Church the God of order will have one to speak at once, 1 Cor. 14. 31. But our reverend brethren seeing and considering well that the Church at Jerusalem could not all meet in one congregational way, and that they were a Christian Church, and so behoved to be a Presbyterial Church, they do therefore betake themselves to another Answer, for they say that this Church at 〈…〉 an extraordinary constituted Church, and 1. wanted an Eldership, and presbytery, as Christian Churches have now: 2. the government was merely Apostolical: 3. the constitution was somewhat Jewish, rather than Christian, for their service was mixed with legal ordinances and Jewish observances for many years, and therefore cannot be a pattern of the Christian visible Church which we now seek. To which I answer. 1. Because our brethren consider that the Church of Jerusalem will not be their independent Congregation, before we obtain it, for us, as a mould of a presbyterial Church, they had rather quit their part of it, and permit the Jews to have it, for us both, but we are content that their Congregations in some good sense be given to them, and not to Jews. 2. There is no reason, but the Church of Jerusalem be a Christian Church; 1. The external profession of a visible Church maketh it a visible Christian Church, but this Church professeth faith in Christ already come in the flesh and the Sacraments of the New Testament, baptism, and the Sacramental breaking of bread, Act. 22. 41, 42. we desire to know how saving faith in a multitude constituteh an invisible Church, and the external and blameless profession of that same saving faith doth not contitute a visible Church also? and how this is not a Christian visible Church not differing in essence and nature from the 〈◊〉 Churches that now are, to which the essential note of a visible Church agreeth, to wit the preaching or profession of the sound faith: if it be called an Apostolic and so an extraordinary Christian Church because the Apostles doth govern ●it, that is not enough, if the Apostles govern it, according to the rule of the word framing the visible Churches of the New Testament, this way the Church of Corinth, 1 Cor. 5. shall be an Apostolic and so an extraordinary Church, which our brethren cannot say. But we desire to know wherein the frame of this first pattern Christian Church at Jerusalem is so extraordinary, that it cannot be a rule to us to draw the mould of our Churches according to it, for if the Apostles make it a pattern of an ordinary Christian Church in Word and Sacraments, to say it was extraordinary in the government, except you show that that government was different from the rule that now is in government, is petitio principii, to beg what is in question, for these same keys both of knowledge and jurisdiction that by your grant, were given to the Church, Matth. 18. 15, 16, 17. were given to the Apostles, Matth. 16, 17, 18. and Joh. 20. 21. If you say it is extraordinary, because as yet they had not Deacons, for the Apostles did as yet serve tables, where as afterward Act. 6. that was given to the Deacons by office, and so they had not Elders, nor Doctors, nor Pastors as we now ha●e, but the Apostles were both Pastors, Ruling Elders, Doctors, and Deacons, and they were the only governing Eldership, and this was extraordinary that they had no Eldership, and so they were for that same cause no presbyterial Church, whence it followeth that you cannot make this Church which had no presbytery, a pattern of a presbyterial Church. But I answer, this will not take off the argument, if we shall prove that after they were more than could meet in one Congregation, and so after they were so numerous that they were more Congregations than one, they had one common government, and 1. we say though the Apostles had power to govern all the Churches of the world, and so many Congregations, yet if they did rule many Congregations as Elders, and not as Apostles, we prove our point. Now we say where baptism and the Lords Supper was, there behoved to be some government, else the Apostles admitted promiscuously to baptism and the Lords Supper any the most scandalous and profane, which we cannot think of the Apostles: it is true say you, they admitted not all, but according to the rule of right government, but this right government was extraordinary, in that it was not in a settled Eldership of a Congregation, which was obliged to reside and personally to watch over that determinate flock, and no other flock, but it was in the hands of the Apostles, who might go through all the world to preach the Gospel, and were not tied to any particular flock: and so from this neither can you draw your classical Eldership, nor we our congregational Eldership. But I answer, yet the question is begged, for though it be unlawful for a settled Eldership not to reside where their charge is, yet the question is now of a government in the hands of those who are obliged to reside and give personal attendance to the flock, and the government in the hands of the Apostles, who were not obliged to personal attendance over this and this particular flock, which they did govern; were governments so different in nature, as the one is a pattern to us, not the other, and the one followeth rules different in nature and spirit from the other; for though it were granted that the Apostles did govern many Congregations as Apostles, not as Elders, yet there was no extraordinary reason why these many Congregations should be called one Church, and the believers added to them, said to be added to the Church, as it is said, Act. 2. 47. And the Lord added to the Church daily such as should be saved, except this Church be one entire body governed and ruled according to Christ's Laws. 2. There be seven Descons chosen to this Church, Act. 6. and Deacons are officers of the Church of Philippi which our brethren calleth Phil. 1. 1. a congregational Church, and Pnebe was a Deaconisse (say they) of the Church of Cenchrea, Rom. 16. 1. and if they had Deacons, they could not want Elders, who are as necessary. 3. This Church could not be so extraordinary as that it cannot be a pattern to us of the constant government of Churches by Elders, which we call Aristocratical, seeing it is brought as a pattern of the Church's government by the voices of the people, which is called by Divines, in some respect, democratical, and this place is alleged by our brethren, and by all Protestant Divines against Bishops and Papists to prove that the people have some hand in government, to wit, in election of officers, and so the words are clear, Act. 6. 5. And this saying pleased the whole multitude, and they choosed Steven, etc. so this multitude did not make one congregational Church, but it was a company of the multiplied disciples, both of Grecians and Hebrews, as is clearly related to these spoken of, v. 1. c. 6. Now Hebrews and Grccians were directly one Church having one government, and seven Deacons, common to both, now that could not be a single independent Congregation, as is already proved. 4. If the constitution of this Church at Jerusalem be sewish, because of some Jewish observations, and so no pattern of the frame of ordinary visible Churches Christian; I say 1. this is no good argument, seeing the Christian visible Church, and the Jewish visible Church is of that same frame and constitution, having that same faith, s●all grant, except Papists, Socinians and Armini●ns, and so that same profession of that same faith. 2. If this were a good reason, than all the Churches of the Gentiles which are commanded for a time, in the case of scandal, to observe some Jewish Laws, to abstain from eating meats offered to Idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, Act. 15. 29. Act. 16. 4. shall be also Churches in their constitution Jewish, and so no pattern to us; and the Church of Rome and of Corinth shall be Jewish also, and no pattern to us, because in case of scandal they are to abstain from meats forbidden in the Law of Moses, Rom. 14. 1 Cor. 8. c. 10. but this our brethren cannot teach. 5. Though Apostles did govern all these Congregations, yet we are not to thinker that seeing there were such abundance of gifted men in this Church, on which the Spirit, according to Joels prophesy, was poured in so large a measure, that they did not appoint Elders who did personally watch over the converted flock, especially seeing Apostles use never this Apostolical and extraordinary power, but in case of necessity, where ordinary helps are wanting, else this answer might elude all reasons drawn from the first moulded Churches which were planted by the Apostles and watered by their helpers. But I have heard some say, that multitude of Pastors at Jerusalem doth not prove that the Apostles were idle, if they did all attend me Congregation, because they had work enough in the Synagogues 〈◊〉 convert the unconverted Jews, all the twelve did not labour in preaching to the one single new converted Congregation. Answ. But if you lay down our brethren's supposition, that the Apostles had no public meetings for the Word and Sacraments of the Christian Church, but the Temple, and that they ceased not daily in the Temple, and from house to house to teach and preach Christ, as is said, Act. 5. 42. then consider that they preached not daily in the Synagogues, but in the Temple and i● houses, and their first conquest of five thousand was above three Congregations, beside those who daily came In: and certainly it the first was but one Congregation, yet one of the twelve preached to that Congregation, the other eleven b●hoor●d to have a Congregation also. 6. Our brethren acknowledge the Church of Jerusalem to be one Church, for it is called, even before the dispersion, one Church in the singular number, Act. 2. 47. And the Lord added to the Church daily. 〈◊〉 as should be saved, Act. 5. 11. Great fear came upon all the Church, and Act. 8 1. A● that time there was a great persecution 〈◊〉 Church. 2. They grant before the disportion that it had a government, but they deny this government to be presbyterial, thy s●y it was Apostolic and extraordinary, and that it had not in Eldership, nor read we of any Elders till after the dispersion, Act. 8 1. When their number was diminished, so as it is clear they 〈◊〉 meet in one Congregation. 3. You must prove this government be one if you prove a Presbyterial Church at Jerusalem. 4. 〈◊〉 must prove divers form and organical and several Con●●●nions at Jerusalem, if you prove such presbyterial Churches as 〈◊〉 have in Scotland; but I pray you, The Apostles (you say) 〈◊〉 the Church of Jerusalem as Apostles, and so as extraordinary Elders, not as an ordinary Eldership and Presbytery, but give me leave to say this is a mere shift. 1. What reason to call the Apostles governing of the Church extraordinary, more than their preaching the Word and their administration of the Sacraments is extraordinary? and if Word and Sacraments do prove that this was the first visible Church and a type and pattern to all visible Churches, why should its government be extraordinary? 2. Why should the government be extraordinary, because the Apostles did govern it, in respect they were extraordinary officers, and should not the government be by the Apostles; and exercised by them as a common ordinary presbytery, seeing this Church in its goods, was governed by seven ordinary and constant Chu●ch-officers, the seven Deacons? Act. 6. and seeing the people did exercise an act of ordination (say our brethren) but an act of popular election (say we) which cannot be denynyed to be a politic act of divers Churches, Hebrews and Grecians choosing their own ordinary officers in relation to which they made one governed Church, under one common government, which is not congregational; because not of one Congregation, but of more Congregations convened in their principal members (for they could not all meet in one, as we have proved) Ergo, it must be presbyterial. And that this government is one to me is evident, because these seven Deacons were officers in ordinary to them all. 3. We see not how we need to prove that the several Congregations were several form, fixed and organical bodies; 1. Because it shall be hard to our brethren to prove a Parishional Church in its local circuit in the Apostolic Church, and when Churches were moulded and framed first in local circuits of parishes, I will not undertake to determine. 2. Ten Congregations in a great City, though not moulded locally and formally in ten little distinct Churches organical, yet if sixteen or twenty Elders in common feed them all, with Word, Seales and common government, they differ not in nature from ten formed and fixed Congregations, and the government is as truly Aristocratical, and presbyterial, as if every one of them had their own fixed Eldership out of these sixteen Elders, for fixing of this or this Elder to this or this Congregation is but accidental to the nature of an organical Church; if ten little Cities have ten magistrates who ruleth them all in common, they are ten perfect political incorporations and societies, no less then if to every one of these ten were a fixed magistrate, to this or this city; Because the King and State might accuse them all for any misgovernment or act of unjustice done by the whole ten convened in one judicature to judge themall; for what unjustice is done by the major part is to be imputed to the whole college, in so far as the whole college hath hand in it. 2. The formal acts of a political Congregation not fixed are one and the same in nature and essence with the formal Church-acts of a fixed Congregation; For 1. the Word and Sacraments are one and the same: 2. their acts of government, in rebuking, accusing, and joint consenting to deliver to Satan an incestuous man are one and the same, whether the Congregation be fixed, or not fixed; show us a difference. But it is said, they are different in a political or in a Church-consideration, 1. Because this determinate Congregation is to subject their consciences in the Lord, to this fixed Eldership whom they have called and chosen to be their Elders, and not to the ministry of any others, as 1 Thess. 5. 12. Know them that labour amongst you, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, (not those who are over others,) and that are over you, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, and are over you in the Lord, not over others, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and admonish you, not others: and 2. The Pastors are to feed such a flock over which the holy Ghost hath set them, Acts 20. 28. and they are to feed the flock amongst them, 1 Pet. 5. 2. not any other, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, therefore Pastors are fixed by the holy Ghost to a fixed congregation. 3. Pastors are not rebuked by the Spirit of God, for remiss exercise of jurisdiction and Church-power, but over their own fixed Congregation, not because they do not exercise their power over other Congregations over which they are not, and for whose souls they do not watch, as is evident in the several rebukes tendered by Christ to every Angel or Eldership of the seven Churches in Asia, Revel. 2. c. 3. where every Angel and Church is rebuked for their own omissions towards their own fixed and particular flocks. Answ. The places do not come up, to prove fixed Congregations in the Apostles times; for 1. we deny that the Church of Thessalonica was one single fixed Congregation, or the Church of Ephesus either, and far less can the Churches of Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bythinia, to which Peter writeth, and whose Elders, 1 Pet. 5. 1. 2. he exhorteth to feed the flock of God, be one fixed Congregation, nor do they prove that fixed Congregations were, though I think it not unprobable that when Phebe, Rom. 16. 1. is called a Deac●nisse of the Church, which is at Cenchrea, that there were fixed Congregations at that time, but many things not without apparent strength of much probability may be said by the learned, on the contrary. 2. The Eldership of Ephesus I dare not call the Eldership of one Congregation, far less of one fixed Congregation, and they are all commanded to feed the flock over which the holy Ghost had set them, and no other Church that is most true. But how do our brethren infer a fixed Congregation at Ephesus from thence? far less I think can they in far that the formal Church-acts of a fixed, and a not fixed Congregation are different in nature; and therefore, if we can show that in the Apostolic Churches they had many Congregations though not fixed, under one common Eldership, which did feed them in common with Word, Sacraments and Discipline, as is clearly proved, then have we a pattern of a Presbyterial Church. 3. The Elders of Ephesus and these Elders, 1 Pet. 5. 1, 2, 3. had all of them a burden of the souls amongst them, and over which the holy Ghost had set them, and they had not a burden and charge in particular of others as watching in particular for the souls of others: but how fixed Congregations are hence inferred I see not, for I may have with other six Pastors, a Pastoral burden and charge to watch for three Congregations, according to my talon and strength, though I be not a fixed pastor to all the three collectively, or to any fixed one distributively, so as all the omissions of my six fellow-labourors shall be laid to my charge, in the Court of the Judge and Lord of all, if I do what I am able: which I demonstrate thus. 1. That moral obligation of conscience which did oblige the Apostles as Pastors of the Christian world which was to be converted, is not temporary but perpetual and moral and did oblige the Apostles as Christians. Therefore this moral, obligation did lie upon the Apostles to feed the Catholic fiocke of the whole Christian world over which the holy Ghost had set them, just as the Elders of Ephesus, Act. 20. 28. are commanded to feed the whole flock of God which is at Ephesus: now I ask if every single Apostle is to make a reckoning to God for the souls of all the Christian world? 2. If Peter must be answerable to God, because Paul by negligence should incur the woe of not preaching the Gospel, 1 Cor. 9 16? (3.) If upon this moral ground of an obligation lying on the Apostles to feed the Catholic flock of the whole world, amongst which they were, for the most part, by special commandment of Christ, to preach to all nations, Matth. 28. 19 to every creature, Mark. 16. v. 15. If (I say) the Apostles be tied to plant Churches in such determinate quarters and fixed kingdoms of the habitable world, and if the dividing of the world into twelve several parts, and large parishes to the twelve Apostles, be juris divini, of divine institution? I believe this can hardly be proved by God's Word. 2. Where there be six Elders in a Congregation supposed to be independent, every one of the six are obliged in their place to feed the whole flock, over which the holy Ghost hath set them, and that by the commandment of God, Act. 20. 28. 29. 1 Pet. 5. 1. as our brethren teach, but I hope by these places no humane logic would infer, nor could our brethrèn collect, that, 1. every one of these six should, by divine institution, be set over each of them the sixth determinate and sixth part of that Congregation. 2. That every one of the sixth were not to give a reckoning for the whole Congregation, and did not watch for the whole Congregation according to his Talon. 3. That one might not be accused, even one Archippus possibly at Colosse, Col. 4. 17▪ for his own particular neglect to the whole flock, though others were also joined with Archippus who fulfilled their part of their ministry, Col. 2. v. 5. yea & we justly ask if all the Elders of Thyatira were guilty of remiss discipline against the false Prophetess Jezabell, and if all the Church of Sardis did become sleepy, and secure, and had a name that they were living, and yet were dead, though the Eldership under the name of the Angel of the Church, be indefinitely rebuked, Revel. 2. 20. c. 3. 1, 2, 3. 4. yea it is like to me that seeing the Lord Jesus commendeth the one for love, service, faith, patience, Revel. 2. 19 and the other, that c. 3. 4 they had a few names that had not defiled their garments, that only those who were guilty, were rebuked, I believe, and therefore this is to be proved that Elders are not rebuked, but for their remiss watching over an unfixed Congregation, the places to me, do not prove it. Now whereas our brethren say, that they read of no Eldership before the dispersion of the Church at Jerusalem, Act. 8. 1. and therefore of no presbyterial government, and after the dispersion, the number was so diminished as they might all meet in one Congregation, because it is said, Act. 8. 1. They were all scattered abroad through●●● the regions of judea and Samaria except the Apostles. It is easily answered. 1. To what effect should the twelve Apostles not also have followed their scattered flocks, and to what end did twelve Apostles stay at Jerusalem to preach to one single handful, that might all conveniently meet in one house, and a private house, for I think the persecution could as easily put them from public meetings in the Temple and Synagogues, as it could scatter them all to so few a number as one congregation? was the the harvest so great, and the Apostolic labourers so sparing in reaping, as eleven should be hearers in one Congregation? and one speak only at once? 2. Our brethren may know that we prove a Presbyterlall government before the dispersion. 3. If our brethren elide the force of our argument from multitude of believers at Jerusalem, to prove a presbyterial Church, they must prove that this dispersion did so dissolve the Church as that three thousand, Act. 2. and some added daily, v. 47. and five thousand, Act. 4. 4. and believers more added, multitudes both of men and women, Act. 5. 14. and Jerusalem was filled with the doctrine of the Apostles, c. 5. 28. and yet the number of the Disciples multiplied, c. 6. 1. and the Word of God increased, and the number of the Disciples multiplied in Jerusalem greatly, and a great company of the Priests were obedient to the faith, they must (I say) prove (for affirmanti incumbit probatio) that all this number and all these thousands by the dispersion, Act. 8. 1. came to one thousand and to a handful of a single Congregation. 3. I see no necessity that these (all) be the whole body of the Church, I grant Diod●tus saith so, and a Ba●on. An. 1. Baronius conjectureth that there were fifteen thousand killed at this first persecution, b Dorotheus l de vit. & mor. prophet. & Apostol. but Dorotheus saith there were but two thousand killed, and (c) Salmeron saith of Dorotheus his relation, Quae si vera sunt, profecta magna fuit persecutio, if it be true, the persecution was indeed great, and we cannot but think, seeing the spirit of God saith (b) Salme run, come. in Ac. 8. this was a great persecution, but the Church was greatly diminished: but let us see if the Text will bear that so many thousands (for I judge at this time that the Church hath been above ten thousands) were partly killed, partly scattered, so that the Church of Jerusalem came to one single Congregation which might meet ordinarily for Word and Sacran●ents in one private house, where the tewelve Apostles came to them: for my part I cannot see it in the Text, only the persecution was great. 2. All were scattered except the Apostles. 3. Act. 26. Paul saith of himself at this time, 10. Many of the Saints did I shut up in prison, having received authority from the high Priests, and when they were put to death, I gave my voice against them. 11. And I punished them oft in every Synagogue, and compelled them to blaspheme, and being exceedingly mad against them, I persecuted them to strange Cities; all which saith many were imprisoned. 2. Some scattered, but the Text saith not that thousands were put to death, and it is not like that the holy Ghost who setteth down the other sort of persecution and the death of Steven, would have been silent of the kill of thousands. 3. Whereas it is said, they were all scattered except the Apostles, I see no ground of the Text to say that by (〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉) all scattered, he understandeth, all the Disciples as d Lyran. an. in loc. Lyranus saith, so saith e Eus●bius l. 2 histo. Eccle. c 1. Eusebius, though f Sanctius come ib. Sanctius saith he meaneth of the 70. Disciples. And my reasons are, 1. The Text saith, v. 3. Saul entering into every house, ●aling men and women committed them to prison, as you may read, Act. 26. 10, 11. Ergo, all and every one without exception of any, save the Apostles, were not scattered. 2. Amongst so many thousands of men and women, many for age, weakness and sickness, and having young Answ to q. 29. & 2. children, and women with child were not able to flee, therefore (〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉) cannot be taken according to the letter every way. 3. Paul after this dispersion, Act. 26. 11. punished them in every Synagogne. What? punished he Jews? no Christians; Ergo, after the dispersion there were Christians left in Synagogues at Jerusalem which were not dispersed. 4. The Text saith that the scattered abroad were Preachers, and as I prove elsewhere here after, extraordinary Prophets, and therefore all were scattered except the Apostles, seemeth to imply that especially the whole teachers were scattered, except the Apostles; and g Chrysost. in lcc. chrysostom, h Athanasi. ● Serm. de sem. Athanasius, i Nyssenus or at de S. Stephano. Nissenus observes that God out of this persecution took occasion to spread the Gospel, by sending scattered Preachers to all the regions about, so k Lorinus in certum an omnino omnes (dispersi) an soli antiquores discipuli. Lorinus, l Sanctius ib. Sanctius, m Cor. a Lapide, ib. Cornelius a Lapide, say they were not all sattered, and n Cajeta. in lo. Cajetan exponeth these (all) only of those upon whom the holy Ghost descended. 4. Though this Church should come to one Congregation now, this is but by accident, and from extrinsecall causes of persecution and scattering, but we have proved at the first founding of this Church Apostolic the Church of Jerusalem called one Church, the first draught and pattern of the visible Christian Church was such as could contain many Congregations, and could not all meet in one. 5. There is no ground to say that Apostles after this dispersion erected an ordinary Eldership in Jerusalem, whereas before there was an extraordinary, because the Apostles was present with them, and you read of no Elders while after the dispersion, because 1. you read not of the institution of ordinary Elders in the Church of Jerusalem after the dispersion, more than before, and so you are here upon conjectures. 2. There is no ground to say that the Apostles changed the government of the first pattern of the Christian Churches from extraordinary to ordinary. 3. Nor is there ground that the government of the first sampler of Instituted Churches of the New Testament, should rather be extraordinary, than that first ordering of the Word and Sacraments should be extraordinary, seeing the Apostles the first founders of instituted Churches under the New Testament, had as ordinary matter to institute an ordinary presbytery and government, having believers in such abundance, upon whom, by the laying on of hands, they might give the Holy Ghost, as they had ordinary matter, to wit, a warrant, and command from Christ, to preach and administer the Sacraments. 4. The Apostles abode many years at Jerusalem, after there was an erected Eldership, Act. 15. 2. 22. Act. 16. 4. Act. 21. 18, 19, 20. Gal. 1. 18 After three years I went up to Jerusalem to see Peter, Gal. 2. 1. Then foureture years after, I went up again to Jerusalem, etc. 9 And when James, Cephas, and John who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands fellowship. 5. Though we should give, and not grant that this dispersion did bring the Church of Jerusalem to so low an ebb as to make it but one single Congregation, yet after the dispersion, all the Churches, Act. 9 3. had peace, and were edified, and multiplied, and so the Church of Jerusalem also was multiplied, if all France be multiplied, Paris which is a part of France must be multiplied, and if there were many thousands of the Jews that did believe, Act. 21. 20. though these many were for a great part come up to the feast at Pentecost, as some think, yet may we well think a huge number of these thousands were of the Church of Jerusalem: it is said, v. 21. They are informed of thee that thou teachest all the Jews which are amongst the Gentiles to forsak Moses, these belike were the Jews at Jerusalem who heard that Paul was come to Jerusalem, and Act. 12. 24. The Word of God grew and multiplied; it is the same phrase that is used, Act. 6. v. 7. to express the multiplying of the Church, by the multiplying of the Word, for there is no other multiplication of the Word but in the hearts of numbers who receive the Word in faith. Our brethren object; 1. Though there be Elders at Jerusalem, Act. 15. 2. v. 4. and Act. 21. 18. yet that doth not prove an Eldership o● a formal presbytery, even a presbytery of a classical Church doth not prove that these Classical Elders are Elders of a Classical Church. Answ. Our brethren should give to us the measure which they take to themselves, for they prove from that which the Scripture, Act. 20. 28. do name the Elders of the Church of Ephesus that there was an Eldership at Ephesus, which governed all the people of Ephesus; and from Bishops and Deacons at Philippi, Phil. 1. 1. that there was an Eldership in that Church; and from the Angel of the Church of Smyrna, Pergamus, Thyrtira, etc. that there was a college of Elders or a Presbytery in those Churches: for if those Churches had elders in them, though they were in their meaning Elders of a particular Congregation, and so an Eldership and a presbytery, they must give us the favour of the like consequence, in many of those Churches, they had Elders; Ergo, they had a presbyterial or classical Eldership, and the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is as seldom in Scripture to our brethren to prove their congregational Eldership, as it is to us to prove our Presbyterial or classical Eldership, and in this, jam sumns ergo pares; and one government, and combination voluntary under one congregational presbytery shall be as hardly proven, as one government, and one voluntary combination of many Congregations, and where the multitude is so numerous, as that they cannot meet in one, it is impossible to prove that so many thousands did all agree, and that according to Christ's institution, to meet ordinarily in one for doctrine and discipline, whereas the meeting in one of so many thousands is most inconvenient. 2. An Eldership doth prove there is a relation of those that make up the Eldership to all the Church distributively to which they have the relation of Elders, but doth not prove that the Eldership is an Eldership in a Church-relation to any one single person, and that that single person hath a reciprocal Church relation to that Eldership; so here the classical Eldership carrieth a relation to a classical Church, and a classical Church doth retort and reflect a reciprocal relation to the Eldership, but it doth not follow that every Congregation of the Classical Church doth reflect a reciprocal relation of a Church classical to either the classical Eldership, or to any one Elder of the classical presbytery. 2. They affirm, that there was no presbyterial government exercised by the Apostles in the Church of Jerusalem; for they say, for the substance of the Act (it is true) The Apostles did govern as Elders, that is, their Acts of government were not different from the Acts of government of ordinary Elders: but the Apostles did not govern under this formal reduplication as ordinary Elders, but as Apostles, because as Apostles they were Elders both in the Church of Jerusalem, and in all Churches of the world: but this proveth not an ordinary Eldership, Titus at Crete did but the ordinary Acts of an ordinary Elder at Crete in appointing Elders in every city, yet this proveth not that there is in the successors of Titus an ordinary Episcopal government, for because of the extent of the Apostles power to all Churches on earth, you may from this prove as well an Episcopal power as a presbyterial power in an Eldership over many Congregations; and before you prove a presbyterial power you must prove an extent and an ordinary extent of an Eldership over many Congregations, which you shall never prove from the extent of the Apostles power, which was universal and alike in all Churches. I answer, if our brethren had form their arguments in a syllogism, I could more easily have answered, but I will do it for them. Those who did rule with an universal extent of power of government in all Churches, these did rule as Apostolic rulers, and not as ordinary presbyters, in the ruling and governing the Church of Jerusalem: but the Apostles before the dispersion did rule thus, Ergo, the Apostles before the dispersion did rule as Apostles, not as ordinary presbyters. The proposition they make good, because if those who rule with an universal extent of power, do it not as Apostles, they have than prelate's to succeed them as ordinary officers in their extent of power and extent of pastoral care over many Churches. But I answer by granting the major, and the probation of it in the connex proposition, because those who rule with an universal extent of power do it as Apostles, but I deny the assumption that the twelve Apostles did rule the Church of Jerusalem with an universal extent of power over all Churches; for it is true, the Apostles who did govern the Church of Jerusalem had an universal power over all Churches, but that they did rule the Church of Jerusalem as having this universal power, and by virtue of this universal and Apostolical power, I utterly deny, and I deny it with the reduplication, and except our brethren prove that the Apostles did govern the Church of Jerusalem as having this Apostolic power, and under this reduplication, they do not prove that they ruled as Apostles, which is the conclusion to be proven. Now that I may give a solid reason of this, we are to consider, what Apostles do as Apostles and what as ordinary Elders, as take along this rule with you, what Apostles do as Apostles; every one of the Apostles his alone may do, as quod convenit 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, conv●nit 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, What ever agreeth to an Apostle as ●● Apostle, agreeth to all Apostles, as because Apostles may work miracles, any one Apostle may work a miracle, so Peter his alone, extra collegium, when he is not with the twelve, he may work a miracle, his alone he may speak with tongues, and his alone he may preach and baptise through all the world, and therefore Peter as an Apostle, not as an ordinary Elder doth raise the dead, speak with tongues, preach and baptise in all nations without any calling of the people or without consent of the presbytery; but what the Apostles do as ordinary presbyters, and as a classical College that by cannot do in that relation, but in collegie: as the eye doth not see but as fixed in the head, so when the Apostles do any thing in collegio, not without the suffrages of a college, that they must do as ordinary Elders; for example, Paul if he delivered Hymeneus and Alexander his alone to Satan, 1 Tim. 1. 20. as many think he did, than he did that as an Apostle; but suppose he had been present at Corinth, 1 Cor. 5. to obey his own Epistle and direction that he gave to excommunicate the incestuous man, he should with the Eldership of Corinth delivered him to Satan as an Elder, not as an Apostle; yea in a presbyterial way Paul could not have delivered him to Satan without the concurring joint suffrages of the Eldership of Corinth. So because Act. 6. 1. 2. 3. the whole twelve do call together the multitude, the whole twelve do that as ordinary Elders, which I prove, for if they had convened them as Apostles, by that transcendent Apostolic power by which they preach and baptise in all the Churches and by which they raise the dead, Peter his alone might have convened them; so they ordain Elders by imposition of hands, as an ordinary Eldership now doth, all the twelve do it in a Court, whereas if they had put on these seven men to be Deacons upon the people by virtue of their Apostolic calling, they should not have convened the people, nor sought the free consent of the people; for any one Apostle his alone, as Peter might, by the transcendent power of an Apostle have ordained those seven men to be Deacons, but then he should clearly have done it not in an ordinary Church way, so now the Apostles must, Act. 6. govern as ordinary Elders, also what the Apostles do by the interveening help of ordinary perpetually established means, that they do not as Apostles but as ordinary Elders, as they work not miracles by advice and consent of the multitude, because they do it as Apostles, but here the twelve do all by the interveening help of the ordinary and perpetually established free voices of the multitude. 1. Because the twelve Apostles convene. The Apostles did nothing in vain, and without warrant, any one of the twelve might have instituted the office, then that all the twelve convene it must be to give a pattern of an ordinary Eldership; for you never find all the twelve meet to do with joint Forces an Apostolic work, they never met all twelve to pen a portion of Scripture, twelve of them, nor a college of them never met to raise the dead, to work a miracle, to speak with tongues, because these be works above nature, and one is no less an instrument of omnipotency to work a miracle, than 12. or 20. therefore we must say that these twelve convened as ordinary Elders to be a pattern of a presbytery. 2. The complaint is made by the Grecians to the court, not to one Apostle, for the whole twelve doth redress the matter. 3. That college hath a common hand in this government for the poor, as their words clear. 2. It is no reason that we should leave the Word of God, and serve Tables. 4. They put on the people what is their due, to look out and nominate to them seven men, as Apostles they should have chosen the men. 5. They do put off themselves the charge of Deaconry, and the daily care, as v. 1. Ergo they were before daily constant Deacons, and why not Elders also? 6. They will do nothing with out the free voices of people, and give to the people the ordinary election, this day, and to Christ's second coming, due to them, Ergo, the Apostles stoop beneath the sphere of Apostolic power and condescend to popular power, and so must here be as ordinary Elders, not as Apostles. 7. They do ordain seven men to be constant officers. 2. From this it is easy to deny that we may as well infer Prelates to be the lawful successors of T●us whose power was universal in every Church of Crete, as to in●erre a presbyterial power, because Titus his alone 〈◊〉 an 〈◊〉 appointed Elders; and we cannot infer a Monarchic in the Church, from some extraordinary acts of the the first planters of Churches, because we infer from the Aristocratical and ordinary power of the Apostles an Aristocratical power of presbyteries now in the Church, shall we hence infer a Monarchy? 3. If the Acts of government performed here, Act. 6. by the Apostles, be extraordinary and Apostolic, they are not imitable by us, but all Divines teach that from Act. 6. the ordinary presbytery may according to this very pattern ordain Deacons and Elders. The reverend brethren object. The Apostles did ordain a new office here, to wit, an office of Deacons, as all our Divi●●s prove from the place, but the Apostles as ordinary Elders in an ordinary College presbyterial cannot appoint a new Office in the Church, for the presbyteries now also by that same presbyterial power might also appoint a new office in God's house which is absurd. Answ. I grant that the Apostles as Apostles perform some Acts of government in this place, and that they appoint a new office of Deacons here, but that is neither the question, nor against our cause, but I desire the opponents to make good that the Apostles did appoint this new office in a Churchway, as they ordain these seven men to the office, and that, in collegio. I ask did the Apostles, 1. Crave the concurrence of the convened multitude, and their free voices shall we appoint this new office, men and brethren, or shall we for bear? 2. Did they voice the matter in a college amongst themselves, as they do Act. 15. and do they say amongst themselves in the presbytery Apostolic, have we warrant from Christ to appoint a new office of Deacons? What is your mind Peter, what is your sentence, James, Mathias, & c? now this is to proceed formally, in collegio, this they did not, nor could they do in appointing the office, for they were immediately inspired by the Spirit to appoint new offices, but in ordaining the officers, in concreto, that is, in ordaining the men, Steven, Philip, etc. they proceed after a presbyterial way, every way as an ordinary presbytery doth. Object. But they ordain Elders here upon this Apostolic ●round, because they were Apostles and Pastors to all the world, etc. if the ground was Apostolic, the action was formally Apostolic. Answ. We must distinguish betwixt ordination comparative and absolute: ordination comparative is in relation to the place, if the question be, upon what ground do the Apostles ordain in all the world; I answer because they are Apostles, and every where, Ergo, they may ordain every where; but as for absolute ordination, here in Jerusalem, if the question bewhy they did ordain Stephen, Philip, etc. tali modo, by conveening the Church; I answer, because the Apostles were Elders. But our brethren say, Then the Apostles in this act laid down their infallible Apostolic spirit. I answer, they laid down the ininfallible spirit, which they had as Apostles, and took them to ● fallible spirit, but they did not operate and govern in this Act, from this infallible spirit, but from an ordinary spirit, else you must say, 1. when the Apostles did eat and drink, they laid down an infallible and Apostolic spirit, and took an ordinary and fallible spirit, for they did not eat and drink by immediate inspiration and as Apostles, but as men; 2. because they were Apostles where ever they came, it shall follow by this that they did all by this Apostolic spirit; as if the question be upon what ground, Did the Apostles every where baptise, pray pasi●a●●y, exhort as Pastors, govern in Corinth, deliver the incestuous man to Satan at Corinth? If you answer, because they were Apostles, than I say because they were Apostles always, and in every place, they never used the ordinary power of the keys given to them, as common to them and all Pastors to the end of the world, Matth. 18. 18. Matth. 16. 19 John 20. 23. and so they could not do any thing as ordinary Pastors, or ordinary Elders. 2. Christ gave to the Apostles an ordinary power which they could never put forth in Acts 3. we have no warrant from the Apostles preaching, baptising, exhorting, governing, retaining and remitting sins, excommunicating, rebuking, to preach, baptise, exhort, govern, retain and remit sins, excommunicate and rebuke, because the Apostles, in Acts Apostolic and extraordinary, are no more to be imitated by us, than we are to imitate them in speaking with divers tongues, and raising the dead. Hence upon these grounds we are certainly induced to believe that the Apostles did here ordain, not as Apostles, but as ordinary Elders; 1. Because in these Acts the Apostles are imitable, but in what they do as Apostles they are not imitable. 2. What ever rules of the Word doth regulate the ordinary classical presbytery, the Apostles go along in all these acts here condescending to these rules, such as the meeting of the presbytery, the twelve do meet. 2. They tacitly acknowledge a neglect of the daily ministration to the widows which is an act of misgovernment of the Deaconry, which is an ordinary office of the presbytery, and therefore they desire of the Church to be freed of this office. 3. They refer the nomination and election of the seven men to the people. 4. They ordain seven constant and perpetual officers, as the presbytery doth, Ergo, they do not ordain by their transcendent power, as Apostles. 3. From this place our brethren prove their congregational presbytery, which they would not do, if the Apostles did here manage affairs as extraordinary officers. 4. This collegium of Apostles do nothing in all this, which by confession of both sides may not be done, and to the end of the world is not done in the transacting of the like business, by the ordinary presbytery. 4. What the Apostles do as Apostles agreeth only to Apostles, and can be done by none but Apostles, or by Evangelists, having their power, by special warrantable commission from them, as what a man doth as a man, what a Pastor doth as a Pastor, a Deacon as a Deacon, a Prophet as a Prophet, can be done by none but by a man only, a Pastor only, a Deacon only, except whereas one Act, as to teach, agreeth both to a Pastor and a Doctor, which yet have their own differences, but all here done the Apostles might have done, if we suppose, they had not been Apostles. 5. If as Apostles they ordain, any one of the twelve Apostles should completely and entirely ordain all the seven, and so the seven Deacons should have been twelve times ordained at this time, which needles multiplication of Apostolic actions were useless, served not for edification, and is not grounded in the Word, for the whole twelve, in collegio, do ordain, and what any one Apostle doth as an Apostle by the amplitude of a transcendent power, every Apostle doth it completely, and wholly his alone, as without help of another Apostle, Peter worketh a miracle, especially any one Apostle as Paul his alone might ordain Timothy an Evangelist. 6. If they did here act as Apostles, any one Apostle might have ordained the Deacons in an ordinary way, as here; but that we cannot conceive, for then one and the same action should have been ordinary, and not ordinary, for one man cannot be a Church or a society to do the ordinary Acts of an ordinary society, for it should be extraordinary to one to act that which is the formal Act of many as many, and should involve a contradiction, except it were an Act which cannot be performed by many, as when one Paster speaketh for many, for a whole Church; but that is ordinary and necessary, because a multitude as a multitude cannot speak, without confusion in a continuated discourse, for that all the people say one word (Amen) is not a multitude as a multitude using one continuated speech. Object. 1. If the Apostles did not all their Ministerial acts as Apostles, they did not fulfil their commission given to them, as to Apostles, Matth. 28. Go and teach all Nations. Answ. The consequence is nought, if they had not done all things, which by virtue of their Apostolical Office they were commanded to do, they had not then fulfilled their commission given to them by Christ. That is true, but now the assumption is false, they were under no commandment of Christ to do all their Ministerial Acts as Apostles, prove that they did neither Preach, nor Baptise as Apostles; but only as Apostles they did preach infallibly. 2. In all places of the world, as Catholic Pastors. 3. With the gift of Tongues. 4. Working of Miracles, which by divine institution were annexed to their preaching, but their preaching according to the substance of the act was ordinary. Object. 2. The Apostles went to Jerusalem by revelation, as Paul did, Gal. 1. Ergo, all their acts that they did there, they did them by immediate revelation. Answ. The consequence is null, Paul went by revelation up to Jerusalem, and there Gal. 2. he rebuked Peter, as an Apostle? no, as a Brother, for then Paul should have exercised Apostolic Authority over Peter, which is popish. Object. 3. If the Apostles did act as Presbyters here, they did wrong the particular Churches, and took their Liberty from them, in exercising ordinary Ministerial acts there, which are proper to that Church. Answ. It followeth upon the denied principles of an independent Congregation only, for a Church without Elders hath no Presbyterial power, and therefore such a power can not be taken from it, you cannot take from a Church, that which by Law it hath not. If the Acts of the government in the Apostles, are according to the substance of the Acts all one with the Acts of government, in the ordinary presbytery; Ergo, say I, those Acts come not from an Apostolical and extraordinary power, even as the Apostles preaching and baptising are not different in nature and essence, from the Acts of preaching and baptising in ordinary Pastors, though they had power to preach and baptise every where, and we only where we have an ordinary calling of the Church, and from the Apostles preaching and baptising every where, we may infer, it is lawful for the ordinary Elders their successors to preach and baptise in some place, why may we not infer because the Apostles, in collegio, in one presbytery did ordain ordinary officers, that we have thence a pattern for an ordinary presbytery? Object. 4. If there were no institution for preaching and baptising, but only the Apostles naked practice, we were not warrantably to preach and baptise from the sole and naked example of the Apostles. Answ. Show us an institution for preaching and baptising then, for that which we allege is an institution, Matth. 28. 19, 20. Mark. 14. v. 15. to you is a commandment given to the Apostles as Apostles, as you said, in the 1. objection proponed by you, and therefore we have no more warrant to preach and baptise from the Apostles example, than we have to work miracles, and because by the same reason of yours, Christ's command to his Apostles to preach before his death, Matth. 10. is not ordinary presbyterial preaching, but conjoined also with the power of casting out devils, Matth. 10. 1, 2, 3. it must also upon the same ground be a Commandment given to the Apostles not as ordinary Pastors, but as Apostles, if we compare Matth. 10. 1, 2, 3. with Mark. 16. 15, 16, 17, 18. If you flee to John Baptist his practice of baptism, 1. you are farther off than you were; 2. What warrant more that John Baptist his practice should warrant preaching and baptising, if it want an institution, than the Apostles preaching and baptising when it is separated from an institution? 2. This argument pincheth you as much as us, for a thousand times in your books, a warrant for our ordinary Elders to preach and baptise is fetched from the sole practice of the Apostles. 3. By this the argument for the Christian Salbath, from the Apostles observing that day, shall also fall. 4. This also shall make us lose in fundamentals of Church government which are grounded upon the Apostles practise. 5. The Apostles had no Apostolic and extraordinary ground which moved them to preach and baptise, according to the substance of the Acts, for they did preach and baptise upon these moral and perpetual motives and grounds which do oblige ordinary Elders to preach and baptise even to Christ's second coming, Ergo, their very practice, not considered with the institution, is our pattern and rule. It is as evident that there was a Presbyterial Church at jerusalem after the dispersion, seeing the dispersion, as we have proved did not retrench them to one Congregation, because our Brethren do conclude from a company of Elders of the Church of Ephesus, Acts 20. of jerusalem, from the Angel of the Church of pergamus, of Thyatira a formal ordinary Presbytery of Ephesus, of jerusalem, of Thyatira. Let us have the favour of the same argument, upon the supposal of many Congregations which the word doth warrant, and upon the supposal that it is called one Church always, as Acts 2. 47. The Lord added to the Church, Acts 5. 11. fear came upon all the Church, Acts 8. 1. there arose a great persecution against the Church, Acts 12. 1. Herod stretched forth his hand to vex certain of the Church, v. 5. prayer was made without ceasing of the Church unto God. Acts 15. 4. and when they were come to Jerusalem they were received of the Church, and of the Apostles and Elders, Acts. 21. 15. Paul went up to Jerusalem, and v. 18. The day following Paul went in with us, into James, and all the Elders were present. Here be Elders of the Church of jerusalem, and jerusalem is named one Church frequently, and always before and after the dispersion; it is called a Church in the singular number, not only in relation to persecuters, but also in relation to government, and because they were a political society to which there were many added Acts 2. 47. and which hath Elders Acts 15. 4. Acts 21. 15. 18. And a Church-union in a constituted body hearing the Word and receiving the Sacraments, as this Church did, Acts 2. 42. is not a Church but in regard of Church-policy, and Church-government. They reply, That enemies do persecute the Church, Acts 8. 1. Acts 12. 1. Acts 8. 3. Saul made havoc of the Church, that is, of the faithful of the Church, for Saul had no regard in his persecution, to a Church in their government, or Church- combination, therefore the enemies are said to persecute the Church materially. I answer, this objection I took off before. But 2. Principally the enemies persecuted the Church under the notion of Peaceable plea. c. 7. ad. ob. 1. pag. 81. ● Society political holding forth in a visible Church-profession their faith in Christ, and that by hearing, receiving the Seals, and subjecting themselves in a visible way obvious to the Eye of all, to the government of the Christian Church, Yea the enemies had no better character to discern them to be Saints, and so worthy of their malice, than Church-characters of a Church-profession. But 2. Whereas the Holy Ghost giveth the name of one Church, to the Church of jerusalem, all constantly speaking of it both as a Church, and in relation to persecuters, and that every way in that notion, as our Brethren say, that the Scripture speaketh of their own Corgregationall Church, we have the same reason to call it one Church, because of one government; for the question is not now if it be many Congregations, but it it be one Church. Object. 2. They are called the Elders at Jerusalem, not the Elders of the Church of Jerusalem; Ergo, from this it is not concluded that they were one Church. Answ. Acts 16. 4. they are called Apostles and Elders in, or at jerusalem Acts 16. 4. for another cause, these were Elders from other Churches, from Antioch no less, than Elders of jerusalem, they only sat in Synod at jerusalem. 2. All jerusalem was not converted to the Christian Faith, and therefore they may well be termed Elders at jerusalem, as the Church at Ephesus, at, or in Thyatira. 3. I deny that the Scripture speaketh any other ways of the Elders of the Church of jerusalem, then of the Elders of other Churches. 2. Those Elders ought to meet for the governing of the Church of Jerusalem, for this was their duty; Ergo, they were one Presbytery. 2. They did meet Acts 15. 14. to receive Paul and Barnabas, and to hear what God had done by them for their edification; and Acts 21. Paul goeth to jerusalem and is received v. 15. by the Brethren, but the next day, v. 18. The day following Paul went in with us unto James and all the Elders were present; and there the Elders do presbyterially act for the removing of a Church-scandall, v. 21. The believing Jews were informed that Paul taught all the jews which were amongst the Gentiles to forsake Moses. This was a public scandal. 2. The offended multitude were to convene, v. 22. as plaintiffs. 3. The Eldership ordaineth Paul to remove the scandal by satisfying the offended, by purifying himself after the manner of the Jews, and it is clear Paul should not have satisfied the scandalized jews, except james and the Elders had enjoined him so to do. 4. This the very course of a presbytery, yea, our brethren's doctrine, which a congregational presbytery would, and doth take with any other person who doth give offence, yea though it be taken and not given, if the way of remedy be lawful and expedient, as this presbytery conceived Paul's purifying of himself to be, and if any scandalising person should be disobedient to the voice of a congregational eldership, such as our Brethren believe the Eldership of Jerusalem to be; they would say they are to censure him, and therefore if Paul should have been disobedient to this, he should have incurred a censure; It is true Lorinus saith that chrysostom and Oecumenius will have this to be a Counsel, not a Synod, to command Paul, and they Lorinus Diodatus, in loc. deny any Juridical power here, but v. 18. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, to me it is, They were gathered together: Diodatus calleth them The college of the governor's of the Church, Beda Beda. saith there were four Synods and he maketh the Synod Acts 1. at the choosing of Mathias the first, the second at the choosing of Deacons Acts 6. the third Acts 15. and this the fourth, Acts 21. 2. The Text seemeth to me to say it, for as Acts 15. there was course taken for the Gentiles that they should abstain from blood, lest they should either scandalise, or be scandalised; so the Eldership here taketh course that the infirm jews be not scandalised, as is clear, v. 25. As touching the Gentiles which believe, we have written, etc. and to me they seem to do both Synodically, some think that this fact of the Elders and Paul was not lawful: but how ever, though it was not a general council, a presbytery I take it to be taking course to remove a scandal from the weak jews in this place, as they had by a Synodical power removed it from the Gentiles, Act. 15. Mr. Mather and Mr. Thomson in their modest and brotherly answer to Mr. Charles Herle, c. 1. p. 6. It is objected by Master Mather, that if a Church in an Island by Divine institution, and so this first founded congregation at Jerusalem which did meet in Salomon's porch, had once an entire power of jurisdiction within itself, though in an extraordinary case. 1. The case is ordinary, as in the Dominion of Wales, there is scarce a congregation to be found within twenty or thirty miles. 2. Suppose the case were extraordinary and rare, may they violate the ordinary rules of Christ? for so some may think and say, that though according to ordinary Rules, Baptisms and the Lords Supper must be dispensed only by men and by Ministers, yet in the want of these, the one may be dispensed by a Woman, or Midwife, and both of them by such as are no Ministers. Answ. We think a Ministry and Discipline more necessary to a Congregation in a remote Island, or to the Church of jerusalem before they increase to such a number as cannot meet for their numerous multitude in one Congregation, than the Sacraments, when there be no Ministers to dispense them. 1. That the Church be so in the Island its alone, may possibly be extraordinary, but that in such a case they have the Word preached and entire power of Discipline whole and entire within themselves to excommunicate scandalous persons is not extraordinary, when there be no consociated Churches, whom excommunication concerneth, that are in danger to be scandalised, for it floweth connaturally from a Church to which agreeth the essence of a Church, to exercise Jurisdiction over all its own members, if there be no more consociated with that Church, that is by accident and an extraordinary exigence of God's providence. As a master of a Family is to do his duty to educate his children in the fear of God; but if God take all his children from him by death, he doth not transgress the ordinary rule of educating his children in the fear of God, when he hath none. This argument supposeth that a Congregation hath no power of excommunication at all either complete or incomplete, as the Midwife hath no power to Baptise at all either complete or incomplete: neither doth a Congregation transgress any rule of Christ at all when it exerciseth entire power of censures within itself, whereas there be no consociated Churches to share with it in that power. A Congregation is capable of entire Jurisdiction, because it is a Church; But a woman in no case is capable of administrating Baptism, or the Lord's Supper, except she were extraordinarily and immediately inspired to be a prophetess, but for the exercise of entire power of Jurisdicton by a Congregation in a remote Island, I hope, it hath no such need of immediate inspiration. 2. There is no such moral necessity of the Sacraments, as there is of the Ministry of the word and consequently of some use of the Keys, where a scandalous person may infect the Lords flock. For where vision ceaseth the people perish, but it is never said, where Baptism ceaseth the people perish, and therefore uncalled Ministers in case of necessity, without ordination or calling from a presbytery may preach, and take on them the holy Ministry and exercise power of Jurisdiction, because the necessity of the Souls of a Congregation, in a remote Island requireth so, but I hope no necessity in any the most extraordinary case requireth that a Midwife may Baptise, or that a private man remaining a private man may celebrate the Lords Supper to the Church without any calling from the Church. But Mr. Mather, if the power of jurisdiction flow immediately and Mr. Mather, & Mr. Thomson 1●. p. 4 5: necessarily from the essence of a Church, and a congregation be essentially a Church, than this power agreeth to all Churches, whether consociated, or not consociated, and without respect of what neighbours they have, whether many, or few, whether any, or none. 2. A congregation its alone cannot have sole power of jurisdiction, and then be deprived of it, when God sendeth neighbour Churches; for then neighbouring Churches which are given for help, should be given for loss, the contrary whereof Ames Ames Medulla. Theol. l. 1. c. 39 sect. 37. saith. Nor do Synods (saith he) constitute a new form of a Church. Answ. Power of jurisdiction floweth from the essence of a congregation in an Island; Ergo, a total and complete power of jurisdiction, floweth from the essence of a Church or congregation consociated; it followeth no ways, so a pastor of a Congregation hath as a pastor power to rebuke sin, and to administrate the Sacraments, Ergo, when three pastors are added to help him, he hath the sole power of rebuking sin, and the sole and entire power to administrate the Sacraments, and none of these three pastors hath power with him, it followeth not; and because these three pastors are added to help him and their pastoral power added to him is cumulative and auxiliary, but not privative or destructive of his pastoral power, therefore the first pastor suffereth loss by the addition of these three to him: who will say this? our Brethren do conceive the power of Congregations, in its kind and essence, to be Monarchical, so as if any power from consociated Congregations be added thereunto, the Congregations power Monarchical is d minished; and the essence of it changed. 2. Complete and entire power to rule both the Congregation and the Members of consociated Churches in so far as they do keep communion with that Congregation, and may either edify, or scandalise them, floweth not immediately and necessarily from the essence of every Congregation even in remote Islands not consociated with others, that we never said. 3. A power to govern well, and according to the rule of the word added to another power to govern well and according to the word, is an auxiliary power and no way destrective of that power, to which it is added, indeed a power to govern well, added to a power of male administration in a Congregation is destructive of that power, and reason it should be so, because Christ never gave any such power of male administration to a Congregation; but a power of right governing, added to a power of right governing is neither destructive thereof, nor doth it constitute a new form of a Church, or a Church- power, but only enlarge the preexistent form to extend itself farther, for the edification of more souls. But (saith Mr. Mather) if it be against the light of nature that the adverse party be the sole judge which must be, if the s●le Mr. Mather, and Mr. Thomson ib. p. 5. power of jurisdiction be in the Congregation (as we grant in an extraordinary case, when a Congregation is in an Island its alone) and so it shall be lawful for a single Congregation to do that which is against all equity and the very light of nature, it must then follow that it is not against the light of nature that a Congregation (though consociated with other Congregations) have entire jurisdiction within itself. Answ. None of us do teach that it is against the light of nature that the adverse party be the judge, it might fall out in a general council lawfully convened, from which there is no provocation, yea and in a national council, (for all counsels may err) the adverse party may judge, as it was a lawful council according to a Church-constitution that condemned Christ of blisphemy, and they were also his enemies; but we teach that it is not congruous to the wisdom of Christ, nor to the light of nature, that Christ should have appointed all the ordinary Churchcourts, so many thousand congregations, who may rather err then extraordinary and higher Synods, to be the only ordinary judges in their own cause; Nor doth any thing more follow from this argument, that when there is one congregation its alone in an Island destitute of the help of consociated Churches (which is a defect of an extraordinary providence of Christ in that one singular exigence) that that congregation shall be both judge and party in its own cause, if we suppose that one Micaiah shall contend for the truth, and all the rest of the Prophets and people of that congregation to be against the truth, and to judge and condemn one man, who seeketh the Lord in truth. It is a wonder to me that Thessalonica was but one single congregation, all hearing one Word, partakers of one Lords Supper at one Table; yet the Apostle ascribeth to them that which is a note to worthy Baynes of the numerous multitude of the Church of jerusalem, from whence went the Word of God to all M Mather and Thomson c. 3. p. 33, 35. the world, 1 Thes. 1. 8. For from you sounded out the Word of the Lord, not only in Macedonia and Achaia, but also in every place your faith to God-ward is spread abroad. I deny not what Mr. Mather and Thomson say, but 5000 may meet to hear the word, and many thousands were gathered together Luke 12. to hear Christ; but these reverend brethren do leave out, 1. The inconvenience of thronging so all at once; for, they trod one upon another. 2. Christ preached not to all those thousand at once, for it is expressly said, v. 1. He began to say to his Disciples. So Christ refusing to preach to such a disorderly confluence of people, who could not hear, and his doctrine being all for his Disciples, the very Sermon being preached to his Disciples only, Matth. 10. 2, 3, 4, etc. and the Parable of the rich man v. 22. he applieth to his Disciples, Then he said to his Disciples, therefore I say unto you, take no thought for your life, etc. It evidenceth to me that Christ condemneth a numerous multitude in one congregation to hear at once. And whereas chrysostom saith, 5000 persons did hear his voice, at once, in one congregation, by means of Scaffolds and Galleries; and Mr. Mather is willing to yield eight thousand an hundred and twenty were all assembled in one place to chrysostom on Math. 24. M. Mather. c. 2 pag. 34. hear the Word, and that all the multitude of converts at jerusalem were together in Salomon's porch, Act. 5. 12. I grant three thousand could hear one at once; but alas, this is a great uncertainty for independent congregations. But 1. this is to be proved that eight thousand (Mr. Mather hath not added many other multitudes mentioned, Act. 5. 14. Act. 6. 1. v. 7. and elsewhere) did meet daily in the Temple. 2. Daily and ordinarily from house to house. 3. To celebrate the Lords Supper daily in the Temple and in every private house (there were need of many Scaffolds and Galleries) to sit at one Table. 4. To make one judicature, and have more than power of consenting in Church. censures, as our brethren prove the whole Church of believers had, from Matth. 18. 17. 1 Cor. 5. 4. Act. 15. 22. 1 Cor. 14. 23. for my part I think such a miraculous Church cannot be the first mould of independent Churches to be established congregations meeting in one place, for to be edified by word, seals and censures. Yea Mr. Mather will have the whole convening as one independent congregation Act. 6. 2, 3, 4. and the many myriades or thousands of believing Jews, Act. 21. 21, 22, 23. to meet as one congregation. Certainly the Apostles practice must be our rule, and then five hundred or a thousand being so far beneath ten or eight thousand, may well seem a number for fewness not competent; and what shall we then think of seven only, or ten? Now let it be considered, if Rome being granted to be one Church, and in which to me there was a congregation and Church in the very family of Aquila and Priscilla, Rom. 16. v. 5. and whose faith was spread through all the world, Rom. 1. 8. so as famous writers say the half of the City believed, if they be but one single congregation meeting all in one place? and to me it is clear, there was a single congregation in the very house of Aquila and Priscilla, Act. 18. 1, 2, 3 4. v. 26 27, 28. and that Paul preached when he was there daily, beside his disputing in the Synagogue; when he was at Rome there was a Church at his house, Rom. 16. 5. So Diodati saith on the place, That the Church at Aquila his house was the assembly of believers, who assembled themselves in their house; for there were divers small assemblies in one and the self same City, 1 Cor. 16. 19 Col. 4. 15. Greet the Church that is at their house. Col. 1. 15. Salute Nymphus, and the Church at his house. Where Paul speaketh of believers only in a house, he giveth them not the name of a Church, as Ro. 16. 10. Salute them that are of Aristobulus household. V. 11. Greet them that are of the household of Narcissus. Phil. 4. 22. All the Saints salute you, especially those that are of Caesar's house. I desire to know a reason of the difference of this Grammar, if there were no constituted Church in the house of Aquila and Priscilla, why in one Chapter the Apostle should change the phrase? and I desire know what reason we have to go from the literal meaning of the word, that is, a Church at Aquila his house, as well as a Church at C●rinth. For whereas some say that Rom. 1. 6. he saluteth not all of the house of Narcissus, but only v. 11. those which are is the Lord; 1. this exception is not brought concerning the house of Aristobulus, v. 10. 2 This exception confirmeth what I say, because where there is not a Church and an instituted Society and political Church-meeting in the house of any of the Saint, there they are called believers of such a house, and not a Church at such a house. 3. This phrase 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 used Rom. 16. 5. 1 Cor. 16. 19 Col. 4. 19 Phile. 2. must be the same with the Saints assemblea for the Word & Sacraments. Act. 5. 42. in the Temple, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 from house to house daily, and it must be allope with Act. 2. 46. Where they continued daily in the Temple with one accord, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, and breaking bread from house to house; and all one with the assembly of Disciples Act 20. 7. where they assembled for the Word and Sacrament of the Supper, especially seeing as the learned acknowledge, the Christians could not have Temples or houses built for the public assemblies of the Saints as Rome and Corinth, but they met in private houses; which seeing it cannot be denied, then were there at Rome two Churches at least; one at the house of Aquila and Priscilla, 1 Cor. 16. 15. and another also pertaining to the rest of the Saints at Rome. And this saith, that if there had been but one single Congregation at Rome, whereas one family had a Church, c. 165. and so many illustrious families received the faith of Christ, it is like their faith could not have been published through all the world, Rom. 1. 8. if the Christian faith had not had a greater prevalency in comparison of the false God● then worshipped at Rome, then to be in one poor single meeting. And for the Church of Corinth, I humbly conceive they could not be one single congregation, if these four circumstances be considered: 1. The multitude of believers there. 2. The multitude of Teacher's. 3. The diversity of Tongues. 4. A Presbyterial meeting of Prophets, 1 Cor. 14. For the first, Act. 18. 9 Many of the Corinthians believed, and were baptised. Now if we shall believe that the Apostolic Church conjoined preaching and baptising, the Word and the Sacraments; and that the Apostles baptised none but those to whom they preached, I conceive it cannot be denied but there were divers assemblies for the Word and the Sacrament; for Paul, 1 Cor. 14. 15. Baptised n●ne but Crispus and Gaius, and the household of Stephanus; it many were baptised, other Pastors, not Paul baptised them, 1 Cor. 1. 14, 15, 16. and so they were baptised in other assemblies, then in those in which Paul baptised. 2. It is clear that to comfort Paul whose spirit could not but be heavy, as you may gather from Rom. 7. 2, 3. because he was Act. 18. 6, 7. resisted so in his ministry by the blasphemies of the Jews rejecting the Gospel, that he shook his raiment on them, and said, your blood be upon your own heads, I am clean; from henceforth I will go to the Gentiles; The Lord saith unto him in a vision, 9 Be not afraid, but speak, and hold not thy peace, 10. For I am with thee, and no man shall set on thee, for I have much people in this City. 11. And he continued there a year and six months, teaching the Word amongst them. Now let this in equity be considered, if the gaining of one single congregation which meet for the Word, Sacraments, 1 Cor. 11. 20, 21, 22. 1 Cor. 14. 19 and also to acts of Church-censures 1 Cor. 5. 4. as our brethren teach, which could not exceed one thousand conveniently in a settled and daily meeting, had first been much people; secondly, much, in comparison of thousands of the Jews who rejected the Lord Jesus, as may be gathered from comparing Act. 18. 5, 6. and Act. 13. 43, 46, 47. with Act. 21. ●0. where it is said, many thousands of the Jews believed, for the greatest part of the jews rejected Christ, as is clear 1 Thess. 2. 14. 15. 16. and so many more thousands behoved to reject Christ then believed? Now what comfort could Paul have had in this, that many thousands of the Jews rejected the Gospel, and yet all the much people that God had in Corinth were but forsooth to the number of one complete Assembly of a single Congregation, which did meet in a private House, for the celebration of the Lords Supper? For Piscator with all our Divines, 1 Cor. 14 teach that their were no capacious Temples in Corinth, where they did meet for God's worship. 2. Judge if one single Congregation (for the Congregations planted by the Apostles behoved to be competent, and convenient for edification, that all might hear and all partake of one bread, 1 Cor. 10. 16. and one Table of the Lord, v. 21.) could necessitate Paul to stay at Corinth a year and six months, when as Paul by one Sermon made in a certain man's House named Justus did bring many to believe and be Baptised, Acts 18 7. 8. And these many might conveniently make a Congregation beside the much people that God had there, v. 10. not yet called, but yet they were, as interpreters say, the Lords people, by God's decree of predestination. 2. The multitude of Teachers proveth that their were more Congregation than one; for 1. It is incongruous to the Wisdom of Christ to raise up many reapers, where the harvest is narrow, many builders for one congregational House. 2. It is contrary to Christ's practice, who sent not twelve Pastors to one place, but sent them out two by two, that all might find work: now can we think, that where God had much people, as Acts 18. 10. that he would have hundreths of Prophets to be hearers and one at once to speak to one single Congregation? to what end gave the Lord a Talon to such a huge multitude of prophets? that they might be oftener hearers, than they could be in actual prophesying? It is not like. 3. Whereas it is said, 1 Cor. 14. 31. you may all prophecy one by one, that all may learn, and all may be comforted, Di●datus saith, ye may all prophecy, namely by course and in divers or several Assemblies. And Estius saith the same, to wit, that these Prophets were to prophesy in divers assemblies; and for this it is that he saith, v: 34. let your women 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 keep silence 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, in the Churches; Ergo, he supposeth there were more Congregations than one at Corinth; Nor is there reason to say with some, he speaketh of Churches in the plural number, because he made mention of all the Churches of the Saints in the verse going before, for 1. He saith, your Wom●n, let them be silent: now if he had not meant that there were many Congregations at Corinth, he would not have forbidden it in their Women, but of all Women, and it is known there was a great abuse of spiritual gifts in Corinth, so as women did prophecy in the assemblies, and this the Apostle forbiddeth in their Churches in the pl●● all number. And I pray you what room or place was there for such a multitude of Prophets to edify the Churches in one private House? for there were no Temples where they might meet at Corinth. 4. If Kenchrea be comprehended under the Church of Corinth in this Epistle, and the Apostle writing to the Corinthians wrote also to this Church called Romans 16. 1. The Church at Kenchrea, then have we more Congregations than one at Corinth. Now the learned teach that Kenchrea was a Seaport or Harbour of the Corinthians, a Origen, prefa. in 〈◊〉. Origen saith it was a place near to Corinth. Off the Aegean Sea one the East, and as b Strabo. l. 18. Strabo saith, ad sinum Saronicum, as Lechea was the other port. See c Plinius nat. Hist. l. 4. c. 4. Plinius. And the multitude of Teachers (I humbly conceive) which did preach at Korinth may be gathered from 1 Cor. 1. 5. 1 Cor. 4. 6. 15. 1 Cor. 1. 12, 13. 1 Cor. 3. 4, 5. 1 Cor. 14. where there are multitudes of these who were all gifted to edify others, as those who spoke with Tongues, wrought miracles, had the gift of healing. And so many Prophets that Paul saith, v. 31. for ye may all prophecy, that all may learn, and all may be comforted, if these (all) who were to learn, and to be comforted be the much people which God had in this City Acts 18. 9 and this (all) to be instructed and comforted, I have no farther to say. And 3. I can hardly believe that the end why God sent the gift of divers tongues amongst them was to edify one single Congregation: for it is true that our Brethren say, that 1 Corinthia●s vers. 22. 14. Tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not. But that which they hence collect is most groundless, to wit, that therefore the gift of Tongues, according to its genuine end and intention is only a miracle for the gaining of Heathen to the Faith, and not intended to edify the Church and people of a strange Language, after they are brought in to the Church, and therefore there is no ground for people of divers congregations to be instructed by strange Tongues. Ans. The whole current of Divines answer, (as also Estius observeth on the place) Tongues are given especially for infidels, ut novitate mirac●li convertantur, that by the newness of the miracle they may be converted, though also Tongues serve to instruct these who believe, and consequently; say I, that the Churches of divers Tongues may be edified. And let me add that strange Tongues were a mixed miracle. I say mixed, because both they were given to be a miraculous sign to assure Heathen, that the sending down of the Holy Ghost was a miraculous fruit of Christ's Ascension to Heaven; who promised that when he was ascended to the Father, he would send the other comforter, as is clear Acts 2, 89, 10, 11 12. and also it was so a miracle that Paul proveth that it is fruitless and wanteth the natural and genuine end of speech and an humane voice in the Church, if it edify not, as 1. Tongues edify not the Church, except you speak to these who know the Language, or except there be an Interpreter, for other ways the speaker with Tongues shall be as a Barbarian to these to whom ●e speaketh, and they as Barbarians to him 1 Cor. 14. 6. 7. 8 9, 10, 11. 2 He that speaketh with Tongues is to pray that he may interpret, v. 13. That he may edify the Church. 3. He that speaketh with Tongues, if he be not understood, is fruitless and useless to others, because the hearers can neither say amen to his preaching, nor to his praying, v. 14. 15, 16, 17. (4) except a man teach others, his gift of Tongues teacheth not the Church, v. 18, 19 10. (5) strange Tongues in the Church when the hearers understand not, are a judgement of God rather than an edifying of the Church, v. 21. & c. hence it is more than evident, that the edifying end, why the Lord had raised up these in the Church of Corinth, (which was now a planted and watered Church, 1 Cor. 1. 1. ch. 3 5, 6, 7. and a building, the foundation whereof was laid, v. 10. 11, 12, etc.) was that the Church might be edified. And so the gift of Tongues, as touching its edifying use and end, was fruitless, and of no effect; yea as we teach against Papists, unlawful in Gods public worship, except there had been divers assemblies and Congregations, which understood these Tongues. Nor can it be said, that all in Corinth understood Greek. And therefore these of divers Tongues might be understood by all: for 1. This layeth a ground that there was no Tongue a strange Tongue, but the Greek Tongue. 2. That all speaking with strange Tongues was well understood, whereas the Apostle saith the contrary, v. 10. 11, 12. v. 16. v. 23. That many spoke with Tongues in that Church, and yet the hearers could not say amen to them, nor be edified by their preaching or praying, v. 19 if then strange Tongues were gifts of God given to that planted Church to edify these who believed, and to edify the Church, as well as to gain heathen, there must needs be divers Congregations at Corinth, and therefore I cannot but think that weak which Mr. Mather; and Mr. Thomson say; But the Mr. Mather, Mr. Thomson answ. t● Mr. H●. l● c. 5. ●. ●7. place, 1 Cor. 14. 23. That speaketh of the whole Church coming together to one place doth unavaydably prove, that Corinth had their meetings, and not by way of distribution into several congregations, but altogether in one congregation: and it is plain, that though they had variety of Teachers and Prophets. yet they all used to c●●●e together to one place. I answ. 1. The place, 1 Cor. 14. 23. if the whole Church come together, etc. doth evince the contrary, for the Apostle doth there reason ab absurdo, from a great incongruity; it were incongruous (saith he) and ridiculous that the whole Church of Corinth, and all their gifted men speaking with divers Tongues (so that they could not be understood by Infidels) should all convene in one place, and speak with divers Tongues, for the unlearned and the unbelievers would say they were mad; therefore he presupposeth that the whole Church should not all come to one place, but that they should so come to one place v. 24. in divers assemblies, and all prophecy in a Tongue known to the Infidels, as the unbeliever being convinced and judged of all the prophets. he might fall down on his face, and worship God, and say, God is in you of a truth. 2. The whole Church is not the whole, much people of Corinth that believed, that did ordinarily meet in one place; the Text saith no such thing, and that is to be proved and not taken as granted, and so the consequence is most avoidable; for 1. You must say that at any one Assembly, all the Prophets and Teachers of Corinth did prophecy, for the Text saith, v. 24. He is convinced of all, he is judged of all. Whereas the consequence should be absurd, it should be a longesome and we●●● some meeting; for Interpreters say they meet in divers Assemblies, and the Text saith expressly, v. 29. That at one meeting they prophesied, but two or three: now if two only prophesied in one Congregation at one Assembly, as this Text will warrant clearly, then how doth this whole Church consisting of all the Believers of Corinth, a● is supposed by our Brethren, convince the infidel, so as it may bear this sense, v. 24. He is convinced of all, he is judged of all? can two Prophets be all Prophets? And how doth it be●re this v. 24. But if all prophecy, & c? surely, for my part, I think it must avoidable be said, that they all prophesied distributively and in several Congregations. And it is very probable to me, that as women prophesied, so many prophesied at once, and that the Apostle correcteth their abuse, when he will have them to prophesy by course, v. 27. And that too numerous a multitude did prophecy in one Assembly, and therefore the Apostle reducing this Church to order, retrencheth the number v. 29. to two or three, and so this which he saith v. 31. for you may all prophecy one by one, etc. must avoidable be understood distributively in divers Congregations and Assemblies, and so must we take the words where it is said, v. 24. all the Prophets convince, all judge, distributively; and the whole Church v. 23. by this cannot bear this sense, that the whole Church of Corinth comprehending the the whole Prophets. Teachers, and ●elievers, did all collectively meet in one single Assembly. And that the much people which the Lord had at Corinth, Acts 18. 9 was one society partaking of one Table of the Lord, in one private house, and all in one consistory judging and censuring and excommunicating. Lastly, I think (with reverence of the learneder) that these Prophets were a College of Teaching Prophets whose gifts were employed in edifying several Congregations; only some, say they, were Prophets extrordinarily inspired. 2. They were not Prophets of the Church of Corinth, and therefore are not any pattern of a Presbytery, but I answer. 1. Though they were Prophets extraordinarily inspired, yet do they prove well some ordinary acts of a Presbytery, and that 2. They were Prophets of that same Church of Corinth, I conceive; For they do here Prophecy according to the analogy of Faith, and that they have common with Prophets now adays. 2. They are by these same rules regulated that our Pastors are now. 3. They exercise these same acts of Jurisdiction which Pastors do now exercise. 1. They are to prophesy in a known Tongue, v. 19 20, 21, 22▪ and that the edification and comfort of the Church, ●. 31. even as Pastor's now adays, only the internal principle, to wit, the insused gift of prophesying made them extraordinary Prophets, in fi●ri, as our Prophets become Prophets by ordinary industry and studies, in furi: but in facto esse, and according to the substance of the acts of prophesying, these extraordinary Prophets, and our ordinary Prophets and Pastors differ not in specie and nature. As the Eyes put in the man borne blind joh. 9 and these Eyes which we suppose he was capable of from his mother's womb, and the Wine miraculously made out of water by jesus Christ, joh. 2. and the Wines that grew in judea, according to their manner of production and in fieri differed, but in facto esse they were of the same nature. Hence you see in the Text these Prophets are every way regulated as ordinary prophets, and as the Prophets of the Church of Corinth. 1 Because it is acknowledged by all Interpreters that the scope of the Chapter is to prescribe what is order and decency in the public worship in the Church of Corinth; as the last verse saith, v. 40. let all things be done decently and in order, and consequently how these Prophets should edify the Church of Corinth, v. 4. 12 16, 17. (●) That these Prophets should not speak in public the language of Barbarian, v. 11, 12. to the which the hearer could not say Amen, v. 16. and this way are our ordinary Prophets regulated, except that Papists will but say service in Latin, (3) A direction is put on the Prophets, on these who speak with Tongues, that they be not children in understanding, and that they be, in malice, as children, but as concerning understanding, men, v. 20. which agreeth well to Prophets as they are ordinary Pastors. (4) What more ordinary, than the coming together of the whole Church for prophesying, v. 23. 24. and convincing of unbelievers? a● 25. (5) the Prophets are to be limited to a way of speaking to edification, as he who speaketh with Tongues, who must speak by an Interpreter, or then be silent in the Church, v. 27. 28. (6) These Prophets, a● our ordinary Prophets, must speak orderly, and that but one at once, to eschew confusion, v. 29. (7) What they speak is to be judged and put under censure, for the whole College must judge, v. 29. 8. (8) And as the women are here put under a rule, when to speak, and when to be silent, v. 34. 35. So are these prophets, all which, and divers other rules do regulate our ordinary Prophets, which clearly saith to me, that this is a pattern of a College of ordinary Prophets under that same policy and rules of policy as the ordinary College of Pastors at Corinth, and 3. To this College agreeth a power dogmatic of judging, and censuring the Doctrine of the Prophets delivered, 29. let the Prophets speak two or three, and let the other judge. This is not a power of judging that every Christian hath. For 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 saith Piscator, doth relate to the Prophets who are to judge; But (as I take it) a prophetical judging, which may, by good anology, warrant the juridical power of a presbytery to judge and examine these who preach the word, that there creep not in false Teachers into the Church. And for Ephesus. The huge number of Believers and yet making one Church, Rev. 2. 2. saith that Ephesus was a presbyterial Church as many circumstances evince, Acts 19 for. 1. Paul established twelve men Prophets who spoke with Tongues, and prophesied. To what end did Paul set up twelve Labourers at Epheseus, with divers languages, but to establish divers Assemblies? did they all meet daily in one house with Paul to hear him, and turned silent Prophets themselves, when they were indeed with the gift of Tongues to speak to the edification of Assemblies of divers tongues? It is not credible. 2. And v. 10. Paul continued here for the space of two years, (and was this for one competent number, who did all meet in one private house? how can this be credible?) 3. All that dwelled in Asia heard the Word of the Lord jesus, both Jews and Greeks, then in great Ephesus there behoved to be more than one Congregation. 4. The great miracles done by Paul. v. 11. 12. to admiration of all, and to procure the imitation of false Prophets. 5. The name of the Lord jesus was magnified by the jews and Greeks that dwelled at Ephesus. 6. There behoved to be a great work of God, when great Ephesus turned to the faith. It is, 1. Remarkable that Christ the wisdom of the father directed his Apostles to the most famous Cities, to cast out their nets, for conquering of souls to Christ, as in Indea they came to Samaria, and to great Jerusalem; in Syria to Antiochia, in Grecia to Corinth, in Italy to Rome, in Asia the less to Ephesus; now the Scripture is clear the Apostles, that ever we read, planted but one Church, as is clear in one City in jerusalem, in Antiochia, in Corinth, in Rome, in Ephesus: and observe, the basis and prime principle of our brethren's independent Churches doth all lie upon this mere conjecture, that the Lords Grace did restrict and limit the fruits of the triumphing Gospel, in the hands of the Apostles the conquerors of the World to jesus Christ, that they planted but in the greatest Cities they came to (and they apppointed Elders in every City) only one poor single Congregation, as a pattern of all independent Churches, and this consisted of no more than could meet conveniently in one House for Word, Sacraments, one Lords Table, and one Ecclesiastical Church- court for censures. Certainly this Church being a pattern to all instituted Churches, could not exceed the number of a thousand men, or two thousand Believers, and this is a greater number by some hundreds, I am sure, then can make a competent Church-meeting, and I hope no man could say we erred, if we should now make eight or ten thousand one Congregation in ordinary, as our Mr. Mather and Mr. Thomson against Herle. c. 3. p. 34. Brethren say the first congregational Church of Jerusalem wa●. B●t. 2. This City was the mother City and flower of Asia. 2. It was noble, because of Diana's Temple, the length whereof was four hundred and twenty five foot, the breadth two hundred and twenty foot, the pillars were an hundred and twenty seven, the height of every pillar was sixty foot. Amongst which there were thirty pillars most curiously carded. Others say they were an hundred and thirty seven pillars made by several Kings, the Temple was built by all Asia for the space of two hundred and twenty, (some say) forty years. It was enlarged by Alexander; And thither came all Asia the less to the Temple of great Diana. For they had no other Religion, here dwelled the proconsul of Asia, as saith a Philostratus l. 8. in vit. Apollonii. Philostratus, It abounded with arts and Sciences, Philosophers and Orators, b Chrysostom. in praesa. ad Ephes. Chrysostom saith that in it were Pythagaras, Parmenides, Zeno, Democritus, it was compassed with excellent Cities, and noble for Asiatic commodities, see c Plinius l. 36 c. 14: Plinius, and d Alexander ab Alexandro. l. 3. c. 20. Alexander Neopolitanus, e Igna ●i Epist. 14. Ignatius highly commendth it from the purity of the Gospel. All this I relate not as an unpertient digression, but to show that the Gospel behoved to be more mighty here; then that Paul set up but one single Congregation and an Eldership congregational only, Acts 20. 28. v. 36. 37. Especially consider what Beasts Paul fought with at Ephesus, for here were many Jews who opposed him. 2. All the multitude, by the instigation of Demetrius, avowing that their Diana was the goddess not only of Ephesus but of all Asia; yet God made the word so mightily to prevail, for v. 10. Paul remaining there by the space of two years, all that dwelled in Asia heard the word of the Lord, both Jews and Greeks. I ask how it could stand with Paul's universal commission to preach to jew and Gentiles, 1 Cor. 9 20. 21. as an Apostle, to ●em●ine near three years at Ephesus for one single congregation, and the erecting of one congregational presbytery? 3. We see how zealously mad they have been on their Religion, when they had such a curious Temple for Diana. And 4. Demetrius and the crafts had their living by making silver shrines to Diana. And 5. What power of the Gospel it behoved to be, which made their learned men who used curious arts, to submit to the Gospel and bring their Books and burn them before all men? and the sums of these Books extended to a great sum of money, the common people ordinarily follow the learned and the wise of the City and Land; This could not have been done except the far greater part of the City had submitted to the Gospel, for when they were well near ready to tear Paul in pieces, they behoved to be wonderfully tamed, when many Believed, and came and confessed and showed their deeds, v. 18. Baynes come. on 1. ch. Ephes. saith, Ephesus was a City sogiven to riot that it banished Hermodor. Upon no other consideration, but because he was an honest sober man; And also Paul 1 Cor. 16. saith, v. 9 for a great door and effectual is open to me at Ephesus, This was, as all Interpreters Protestant and popish say, uno ore, a large harvest. Upon these considerations, I leave to our reverend Brethren their judgement: if Mr. Mather, and Mr. Mr. Mather, ans. to Mr. Herle. c. 3. p. 38, 39 Thomson say right, we do not think they were more in number at Ephesus, then in Corinth and jerusalem, where the Christians met all in one place. Likewise Samaria a numerous City was one Church, for that it is said of them, Acts 8, 5, 6. They heard Philip, v. 14. Samaria received the Word, it was a public visible Churchreceiving of the word; and v. 12. They believed and were Baptised both men and women. Where a multitude no better then Heathen as Samaria was, receive the Seal of the Covenant, to wit Baptism, they must receive it in a Churchway, except we think that promiscuously all come to age were received to the Seals, and when Peter and john came to Samaria to help Philip in the work, it cannot be that they all went to one House, and to one single Assembly to preach the Word; The Church of Antiochia must be a Presbyterial Church, a● it is Acts 11. v. 19 20. for the multitude of Believers may be collected from These who were scattered abroad upon the persecution that arose about Steven— 20— when they were come to Antioch, spaks unto the Grecians preaching the Lord Jesus. 21. and the hand of the Lord was with them: and a great number believed and turned to the lord This is not like to be one Congregation, seeing they are, 1. much people. 2. many scattered preachers. 3. And the Hand of the Lord accompanied their labours 2. v. 23. when Barnabas, sent by the Church of jerusasalem, came and saw the Grace of God, he exhorted them all, That with purpose of heart they would cleave to the Lord, and upon Barnabas his preaching, v. 24.— much people was added to the Lord. Here is a second accession made to the Church of Antioch. (3) v. 25. Then departed Barnabas to Tarsus to seek Saul. 26. And when he had found him, he brought him to Antioch. And it came to pass that a whole year they assembled themselves with the Church, and taught much people (here is a third accession;) And such a huge multiplication, that the Church of Antioch giveth a denomination of Christianity to all the Christian Churches of the World. All which saith, it cannot be one poor single Congregation, for there was at least, if not more than one Congregation at Antioch, when tidings came to Jerusalem that the Lord had a Church at Antioch, before they sent Barnabas to these Churches, v. 22. and what might this Church grow to when much people was added to the Lord, by the labours of Barnabas? v. 24. And how was it increased when Barnabas and Paul after that taught the Word to much people a whole year? v. 26. It grew after that a great Church, so that a Chrysostom. homil. 3. ●● popul. Antioch. Chrysostom commendeth Antioch for the prime Church. And b Oecumenius in loc. Oecumenius saith, for this cause there was a Patriarch appointed at Antioch, which certainly saith thus much, that it was a more numerous Church than one single Congregation, and c Cyril. Catech. 7. Cyrillus so extolled the Church of Antioch, because the Disciples were first named Christians there, that he saith, this was the new name that Esaiah said the Mouth of the Lord d Esai, 62. v. 2 should name, and so doth e Hilarius l. ●. de Trinitats. Hilarius expound the Text; which, seeing it is clearly the new glory of the Church of the Gentiles, adjoined to the Church of the jews, it cannot arise from a handful of a single Congregation, in the mind of these Fathers, and though we love not with some antiquity to make Antioch the first Church before Rome; yet seeing it was of old before Rome, we may hence collect that that Church which was patriarchal, was not congregational, and therefore I make no use hereof, f Volaterranus l. 5. c. 23. Volaterranus who saith of old the Patriarch of Antioch had under him 14. Metropolitans, 53. Bishops, and 366 Temples, only it is like that Antiquity hath believed that there was a great number of Believers in this Church at first. Now to These, which to me prove it was more than one Congregation, we may add that there was, Ch. 13. 1. in the Church that was at Antioch, certain Prophets and Teachers, as they are reckoned out; These at Antioch Ministered to the Lord, in public prayers (saith g Beza in loc. Beza) and preaching, and (saith n Diodatus an. Diodatus) in administration also of the Sacraments, and other parts of the Evangelic Ministry i Oecumenius in loc. Oecumenius 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. Now I would know what all these Prophets and Doctors, beside Paul and Barnabas who preached a whole year at Antioch, did, in peaching to one single Congregation? and also it is said, Acts 15. 35. Paul and Barnabas continued at Antioch, Teaching and preaching the Word of Lord 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, with also many others. Certainly here is a College of preaching Pastors, who also did lay hands on Paul and Barnabas, Acts 13. v. 3. which all could not be busied in Teaching one single Congregation at Antioch. Mr. Mather saith that the whole multitude of the Church of Antioch were gathered together Acts 14. 27. and Acts 15. 30, 31. Mr. Mather, against Herle c. ●op. 50. to hear the Epistle read which was sent from the Synod. Therefore this Church was no more than might meet in one place. Answ. I answer, the place Acts 14. 27. is the representative Church, for they met for a point of Discipline, at least for a matter that concerned all the Churches, to wit, to know how God had opened the door of faith to the Gentiles, then must the many thousands of Men and Women, which made up the Church at jerusalem, Acts 2. 42. Acts 4. 4. Acts 5. 14. Acts 6. 1. v. 7. Acts 21. v. 22. be many Congregations; now any Man may judge, how impossible it was for the many thousands of the Church of jerusalem to meet as one Congregation, for the Lords Supper and matters of Discipline, and it is known that the many thousands of the believing jews convened to the feast did not make one Church, Acts 21. 20. 21, 22. for our Brethren say, that was an extraordinary confluence of many people from all ●udea came to the feast of Pentecost. And this, many learned Protestant Divines answer to that place. But 2. I do believe that the assembling of the multitude at Antioch, c. 15. v. 30. which saith Judas and Silas gathered together the multitude, and delivered the Epistle, and Acts 11. 26. and Barnabas and Paul their assembling with the Church a year, must be taken distributively. And that there were more assemblings of the multitude and Church at Antioch then one, for Silas, Paul, Barnabas abode a good space at Antioch and taught the Word of the Lord with many others, Acts 15. 34 35. and therefore there is no ground or warrant, to say, that the Epistle was read to all that meeting in one day, and at one meeting, and as little warrant there is to say that Barnabas and Paul assembled themselves, Acts 11. 26. with one and the same single Church-assembly consisting of all the Christians at Antioch, in one house, and in one day, the space of the whole year in which they abode at Antioch, nor shall I believe that Paul and Barnabas and many other Teachers at Antioch, Acts 15. 35. Acts 11. 20, 26. Acts 13. 1, 2, 3, 4. assembled all in one material house at one single Church-convention: but it suiteth not with the wisdom of Christ who sent his Disciples out, two by two, for the hastening of the work, Mat. 10. That they did all, even the many prophets at Antioch, Acts 15. 35. Acts 13. 1. 2. only bestow their labours upon one single Congregation. And the word Church, and (Synagogue) both are taken distributively in the Scripture, and must of necessity be taken so. And so must we take the word, Exod. 12. 6. and so a Ainsworth an. in Exo. 12. Ainsworth readeth it, and the (lamb) shall be kept by you, until the fourteenth day of this month, and the whole Church of the congregation of Israel shall kill it. between the two evenings, & immolabunt eum 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 b Arias Montan Exo. 12. 6. Arias Montanus turneth it, omnis cetus catus Synagogae Israel. Now the Word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in that place must be taken distributively. For all the children of Israel collectively did not meet to slay the Lamb; for the Text saith, v. 3. it was to be slain in the House, that is, (saith c Ainsworth, Ainsworth) as the Greek translateth, Houses. And here v. 3. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 according to the House of their Fathers. The word (House) here must be taken distributively for d Rivet. come. in Ex. 12. Rivetus with great reason inclineth to think that the Passeover was not a Sacrifice properly so called. And truly to me the Lord doth determine the question, Jer. 7. 22. for I spoke not to your fathers, nor commanded them in the day that I brought them out of the Land of Egypt concerning burnt offerings and sacrifice, for 2 Chro. 30, v. 2. 17. there is no necessity to expound the place of these convivall Lambs of the Passeover, but of other Sacrifices offered at this time, see e Lyran in. 2. Par. c. 30. Lyran, and f Caset. ib. Cajetanus. And also g Corcel. a lap. come in loc. v. 6. Cornelius a lapide saith on the words (because he can find no ground for the Moss in the place) hinc pate● universos sacerdotes non immolasse hos agnos paschales in Templo, uti sentit Claudius Saints, 1. Repet. Eucharist. c. 7. Abulensis in Exod. 16. & ex eo Serrarius in Josu. 5. 9 22. and it is certain every Master of the Family did slay his own Lamb, and h Diodatus on Exod. 12. Diodatus on these words (in every House) to show the communion of the Church, in the enjoying of Christ and his benefits. And the i 70. Inter. seventy Interpreters render the place, Exo. 12. 6. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉; and k Chald. para. the Chaldee paraphrast, etc. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 immolabunt eum omnis Ecclesia filiorum Israel. l Hieron. Hieron. immolabit eum universa multitudo filiorum Israel. However, there were neither Priests nor Temple as yet in Israel, when they came out of Egypt. And therefore every head of a Family did slay the Lamb, and so the Church of the Congregation distributively taken slew the Lamb, every one by himself; and so is the word (Synagogue) taken where it's every way a congregational assembly; as Mat. 13. 54. And when he was come to His own Country, He taught them in their Synagogue 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, The word (Synagogue) must be taken distributively. For he did not teach in one single Synagogue only in his own Country, but in many Synagogues, one after another, in divers places, and at divers times; as it is expounded, Luke 4. 44. and He was preacking, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, in the Sgnagogues of Galilee, in the plural number, Mat. 9 35. He went about all Towns and Villages teaching in their Synagogues, etc. Joh. 18. 54. I ever taught in the Synagogues, and daily in the Temple whither the jews always refort. And therefore (Synagogue) Mat. 13. 54. in the singular number must be expounded distributively, for many Synagogues in divers places and divers times, and so do I think the word (Church) and muluitude Acts 11. 26. Acts 5. 30. must be taken distributively; and so the word Church is taken. 1 Cor. 14. 19 Yet in the Church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that I may teach others, than ten thousand words in an unknowen Tongue. Paul (I hope) desired not to speak in a known tongue to edify in one single Congregation of Corinth only, but in all the Churches where he taught, and 1 Cor. 14 35. It is a shame for a Woman to speak in the Church: the word Church cannot be in that place restricted to the one single Congregation, supposed to meet all in one house at one time in Corinth, because it is a shame for a Woman to preach in all the Churches of the World, as is clear, 1 Tim. 2, 11, 12. and Exod. 12. 47. all the Church, (〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉) of Israel shall do it, that is, they shall eat the Lamb in their Houses, and shall not break a bone thereof, so the 70. Interpreters render it, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, The Chaldee paraphrast, Omnis caetus Israel faciet illud. It were easy to b●ing infinite instances out of the Word of God 70. Interpreters Chaldee para. to make good that a collective, noun such as 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, a Church, is taken distributively. So James 2. 2. if toere came unto your assembly, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, a man with a gold Ring, etc. Except the word (assembly) or, Church, be taken distributively and not collectively, it shall follow that all the dispersed jews, to whom james doth write, have one single place of Church-assembly, as Heb. 10. 25. not forsaking 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, the assembly of yourselves together, a● the manner of some is; but can any infer from this place, more than from Acts 11. 26. Acts. 15. 35. that all the whole Hebrews, to whom that Apostle doth write had one (〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉) single Church-meeting, and one Congregation, in the which they did all meet for worship? I think not: or will it follow that there were none amongst all these jews who did separate from any Church-assembly, except only from the Church-assembly of a single Congregation, because the Apostle mentioneth only one single Church-meeting? I think not, and therefore the Apostles mentioning of one assembling of the Church, acts 11. 26. and of one multitude, in the singular number, acts 15. 30. can never prove that there was but one single Congregation at Antioch. Therefore there be great ●dds betwixt meeting in a Church, and meeting in the Church. Also Tit. 1. 5. for this cause was Titus left at Crect, that he might appaynt Elders 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, in every City, if 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 be not all one with 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, Acts 14. 23. acts 16. 4. 5. That is, if ordaining of Elders of every City, be not as good, as ordaining of Elders in every Church, then must there be but in all, and every City, where ever the Apostles or Evangelists planted Churches, but one single Congregation, and not any more than could meet in a single Congregation; which is a conjecture, and much contrary to these times when the Gospel admirably grew in the World. And it must follow that every City had but such a competent number as met in one place; and if this hold, as an uncertain thing, in great Cities, then must we say an Eldership in a City, and an Eldership of many Congregations were the first planted apostolic Churches, and so rules to us also. And look what frame of Churches the Apostles did institute in Cities, that same they behoved to institute in Villages also, for places cannot change the frame of any institution of Christ. 2. The communion of Saints and Church-edification is as requisite for Villages, as for Cities. Arguments removed, which Mr. Richard Mather, and Mr. William Thomson Pastors in New England, in their answer to Mr. Charles Herle, do bring, so far as they make against the author's former Treatises, and a scanning of some Synodical propositions of the Churches of N. England. MR. Mather, Mr. Thomson, c. 1. 9 Governing power is only in the Elders, 1 Cor. 12. 28. Rom. 12. 8. Heb. 13. 17. the people hath no power but rather a liberty or privilege, which when it is exercised about Ordination, Deposition, Excommunication, is of the whole communiter, or in general, but not of all and every member in particular; Women for their Sex, children for want of discretion are debarred. Answ. If there be no governing power in Women, nor any act at all in excommunication. You lose many arguments that you bring, 1 Cor. 5. to prove that all have hand in excommunication. 1. Because Paul writeth to all. 2. All were to mourn. 3. All ware to forbear the company of the excommunicated men. Then belike Paul writeth not to all Saints at Corinth, not to Women, and Women were not to mourn for the scandal; nor to forbear his company. 2. The privilege being a part of liberty purchased by Christ's Body, it must be due to Women, for the liberty wherewith Christ hath made Women free cannot be taken away by any Law of God from their Sex, except in Christ jesus there be difference betwixt jew and Gentile, male and female; nor is it removed because i● i● a power or authority, for the authors say it is no power, but a privilege. 3. What privilege the people have in ordination to confer a Ministry which they neither have formally, nor virtually, I know not. But I do willingly say something here of the people's power; The first Synodical proposition of New England, is. 1. Propos. The fraternity is the first Subject of all Ministerial power, radicalitèr, idest 〈◊〉 per modum collationis, some say suppletiuè, non habitualitèr, non actualit ●r, non formalitèr. That is, (if I conceive it right) The people void of all Officers have a virtual power to confer a Ministry on their Officers though they have not this power in themselves. I could in some sense yield that Believers not Angels, are capable of the Ministerial power to exercise it formally, but that Believers do, or can, by any way of causative influence, make Church-Officers, I see not: they may design a man qualified to bean Officer to the Office, and that is all. But say they, people wanting, or being naked and without all Officers hath not formally or habitually any power in them, this latter part Igrant, and the 2. Proposition I grant, to wit. That the presbytery is the first subject of all presbyterial power habitually, and formally. But I do not see how it standeth with the third proposition; which is 3. The fraternity or the people without the Officers, and without Women or children, have an authoritative concurrence with the presbytery, in judicial acts. Because if the Brethren have an half Ministerial power with the Officers in acts of Jurisdiction and Excommunication, Deposition, and Censures, I see not how there is not a Ministerial power formally and habitually, at least in part, in the Brethren; and so contrary to the third proposition, the Prasbytery is not the first subject of all Prebyteriall power, for the brethren are sharers with the Elders in this power. 2. We desire to see it made good by God's Word, that the brethren have a joint power of Jurisdiction with the Elders, for the Table giveth them a brotherly public power not by way of Charity, but a politic Church power, in many eminent acts, especially in those eight; and that constantly, 1. In the admission. 1. In Sending Messengers to the Churches. 2. In the excommunication of members. 2. 2. In interpretation of Scripture. 3. In the calling. 3. In a judicial determination of controversies of Religion in a synod. 4. And Deposition of Ministers. 4. In a power of disposing of things indifferent. I cannot see any judicial power, or any farther than a charitative yielding by way of a loving and brotherly consent, that the Scripture giveth to brethren. 3. How this can be denied to be a power of jurisdiction and governing; and an actual Ministerial using of the Keys of the Kingdom by those who ex officio, by place, and call are no Officers, I believe is not easily understood. 4. The letter that I saw saith, that that learned and godly Divine Mr. Cotton and some others think, that the Church as it is an Organical Body made up of Elders, and people is the first subject of all Ecclesiastical power, and they divide it into a power of authority, and a power of liberty, whereof the power of authority belongeth to the Elders or Eldership, and the power of liberty to the Fraternity, or Brethren that are not Officers; and therefore these reverend brethren deny any authoritative concurrence to the brethren, and they think that the Church as it is an homogeneal body, that is, a company destitute of Officers, cannot formally ordain, excommunicate, or censure the Elders, though in case of obstinacy they may do that which is equivalent, and so separate from them. The 4. Proposition is; The fraternity or Brethren in an Organical Body, or in a ●●med and established Church consisting of Officers and people, act and use their authority, subordinate per modum obedi nt●ae, subordinately, and by way of due obedience to the Elders, 2 C●r. 10. 6. But I desire a word of Christ's Testament for this, where we a●de that collateral Judges acting as Judges do act by way of obedience and subjection one to another: for if the brethren, 1 Cor. 5. convened in Court with the Elders to deliver the incestuous man to Satan, do act in that Court as giving obedience to the Elders, I see not how they concur authoritatively is sharers with them of that same Ministerial power: if it be said, brethren though they act as Judges in excommunicating, yet they remain brethren and a part of the flock, and so in all their moral acts of authoritative concurring with the Elders, they are under the pastoral care of these who watch for Souls, and so they judge and act even in the Court as under subjection to their watchmen, who must give an account for their Souls; I answer, so the Elders in their acts of the most supreme Ministerial authority and acting in a Church. court, leave not off to be brethren and a part of the flock of Christ, and so in subjection one to another; for six Elders watch for the Soul of one, and one also for the Souls of six, and so if this were a good reason the Elders should act with subordination of obedience to Elders. As the people act with subordination to the Elders. 2. The place cited for this 2 Cor. 10. 6. where it is said, that the Preachers have in readiness to revenge all disobedience, must infer that they are to revenge, by the word which is mighty through God to cast down strong holds, as is said there, v. 4. 5. even disobedience of Elders ruling unjustly and abusing the Keys, no less than disobedience of the people. And I see not how brethrens acting in a Church-Court jointly with Elders, how in that they put on the relation of the flock, and the part governed in the very act of exercising acts of governing, for otherways one Pastor in the act of preaching in the Name of Jesus Christ, and so in authority above these to whom he preacheth, doth preach subordinatè, and as in subjection to the whole organical and form Church, who hath power to censure him, if he preach erroneous Doctrine. 3. I see not how the third Proposition doth stand, to wit, that the brethren, share with the Elders in authoritative acts of the Keys, and yet they ●ct (according to the. 4. Proposition) as under the Eldership by way of subjection and obedience to them. Except this be that which our brethren mean, that the people of a single Congregation exercise acts of Jurisdiction by way of dependence, so as they may be censured by the Elders if they err, but the Elders if they err, are every way Popes, and so independent; that there is no Church-power on Earth above them, that in a Churchway may censure them, or call them to an account. 4. The Table of New England divideth the actual exercise of the power in a Charitative power by way of Love and Charity, and a politic or Church-exercise, the politic exercise again is either brotherly, fraternal, or Presbyterial, and the presbyterial exercise is either 1. Teaching. or, 2. Governing. And Teaching is either by way of Office, or Administrating the Sacraments. The Presbyterial exercise of the Keys is independentElders, in the power of governing, sed respect● apotelesmatis s●u complementi censurae, in respect of the effect, or a complete act of governing, the Elders Rule and Act with dependence upon the people, in these four cases 1. In excommunication. 2. In judging. 3. In sentencing the aocused. 4. In election or 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, in calling of a Minister. So that the Elders there alone without the people, can exercise none of these acts completely, without the people so hear the Elders depend upon the people in their actual governing, and the Fraternity or Brethren depend on the Elders by way of subjection, or obedience to them. Yet give me leave, the letter informeth me that it is said by many learned and godly men in New England, that if their policy should make the government of the Church popular, they should give up the cause. But I conceive the government to be popular, though the people only be not governor's, for Mor●llius never taught any such thing; now this government maketh Elders and people to govern the Church jointly with mutual dependence one upon another, which certainly maketh the brethren in the Lord, as well as the Elders; for if the Elders be not these only which watch for the people's Souls as these which must give an account Heb. 13. 17, 18. and they be not only 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 over the people in the Lord, as is said 1 Thess. 5. 12. 13. Then the brethren must be taken in with them a● joint governor's, as is said Propos. 3. Which certainly must confound the scriptural order established by God betwixt the Pastors and the Flock, the Watchmen, and the City, the shepherd's and the flock, these who are to obey, and these who are over them in the Lord. The 5. and 6. Proposition is, The Brethren may not excommunicate an Elder but mediante concilio, by the intervening sentence of the Elders; is, but the brethren may separate and withdraw from the Presbyteris, after they refuse sound advise. Answ. 1. This is much contrary to that which they ordinarily teach, to wit, that people destitute of Officers may ordain and excommunicate their Officers. 2. By this learning the Souls of Elders are in an hard case, for when they do all scandalously 〈◊〉, there is no Ecclesiastical means of edifying them, for there is no Church on Earth to excommunicate Elders when they ●●re. Separation from them is an unwarrantable way, except they be excommunicated. 3. In the case of the Elderships' incorrigible scandals, the power of excommunication retireth into the brethren. yet it was never formally in the brethren, nor can they exercise this power, but mediante Presbytery, that is, they cannot excommunicate the Eldership, but by the Judicial sentence of the Eldership, and so the power is but a shadow. Mr. Mather, Mr. Thomson, cap. 2. pag. 16, 17. though some have appealed, as Luther and Cranmer from the Pope to a general council. Yet not from a Congreation to a general council. Answ. In matters doctrinal, some as Luther and others have justly appealed from a Congregation, to a general council, though Luther and Cranmer did it not; though verily I profess I cannot see what power of Jurisdiction to censure scandals can be in a general council, there may be some merely Doctrinal power, if such a council could be had, and that is all. M. Mather, Mr. Thomson, c. 2. pag: 20. if Churches be dependent on Synods, because the light of nature teacheth a communion and assistance in government, by the same reason Churches must end in a Monarchy on Earth. Answ. I see this said, without any probation. Churches depend on many above them for unity; but what consequence is this; Ergo, they depend upon one visible Monarch. It is an unjust consequence. Mr. Mather, Mr. Thomson, c. 2, pag. 26. The Grecians and Hebrews made not two Churches, but one Congregation, they called the multitude of Disciples together, v. 2. Answ. That the chief of both Grecians and Hebrews were convened in one to give their consent to the admission of their Officers the Deacons, I conceive; but that all the thousands of the Church of Jerusalem were here, as in one ordinary Congregation I judge impossible. Mr. Mather, c. 3. pag. 27. 28. If your argument be good, if thy Brother offend and refuse to submit tell the Church, because Christ's Remedy must be as large as the Disease: then if a national Church offend, you are to complain to a higher Church above a national Church; and because offences may arise betwixt Christians and Indians, you may complain of an Indian to the Church. Ans. Because ordinary communion faileth, when you got higher than a national Church, and Christ's way suppoleth an ordinary Communion, as is clear. If thy Brother offend, etc. Therefore I deny that this remedy is needful in any Church above a national Church. 2. Christ's remedy is a Church. remedy for Offences amongst brethren, and Members of the visible Church. And Indians are no Members of the Church, and so being without, they cannot be judged, 1 Co. 5. 12. We say that if the Magistrate be an enemy to Religion, may not the Church without him convene and renew a Covenant with God? Mr. Mather, and Mr. Thomson answer, c. 3. pag. 29. if the supreme Magistrate be an enemy to Religion, it is not like, but most or many of the people will be of the same mind. Regis ad exemplum— as it is in France, and Spain, and was in the days of Queen Mary, and then the Believers in the Land will not be able to bear the name of the Land or Nation, but of a small part thereof; nor can it be well conceived how they should assemble in a national Synod, for that, or any other purpose, when the Magistrate is a professed Enemy, nor doth God require it at their hands. Answ. This is a weak answer: the Christians under Ner● were not like their Prince, and it's not like but sincere Christians will be sincere Christians and profess truth. even when the Magistrate is an enemy. And 2. If your meaning be, it cannot be conceived how they should assemble in a national assembly when the Magistrate is an Enemy; because it is not safe for fear of persecution. Then you say nothing to the argument, because the argument is drawn from a duty, a Nation professing the Gospel after many backslidings are obliged to convene in a national Synod, and are to renew their Covenant with the Lord, and your answer is from an ill of affliction: and if you mean that because the Prince's power is against their Synodical convening, this is nothing against the power of the Synods that CHRIST hath given to His Church; But if your meaning be that it is not lawful to them to convene in a national Synod to renew a Covenant with GOD against the supreme Magistrates will, I hope you mind no such things; for so do Malignants a The. Fuller, truth maintained pag 26 27, 28. Now allege that we never read of any Reformation of Religion in Scripture warranted, but where the Prince did contribute his authority, because he only is to reform, and he only rebuked for the standing of the high places, but he may soon be answered. 1. Both Israel and judah were so bend to backsliding, that we read not that ever the people made any real Reformation of Religion, Josiah, Hezekiah and Asa did it for them. But what an argument is this: judah did never, for the most of the Land, seek the Lord God of their Fathers with all their heart; Ergo, the seeking of the Lord God with all the heart is an unwritten tradition? 2. Princes are obliged to remove high places; But are they obliged with their own Hands to break all the Images? No, I think if they remove the high places by the Hands of their Subjects, or command their Subjects to remove them, they do full well. But I see not this consequence. Ergo, Princes only are obliged to remove the high places, it followeth not. 3. If it be the Prince's part to command his Subjects this duty of Reformation and removal of the high places, than they may perform their duty without the Prince. 4. There is a twofold Reformation, one an heart-Reformation. Sure this is not the Princes only. All the Land may repent without the King. There is another, an outward Reformation. And that is twofold, either Negative, or Positive● Negative is to refrain from ill, and the unlawful and superstitious manner of worshipping GOD, as in new Offices not warranted by his Word, Antichristian Ceremonies, and a Mass-book, etc. Certainly all the Land are to abstain from sin, though the King command not: now all the Reformation for the most part in both Kingdoms is in obstinence from superstitious superadditions that defiled the worship of GOD, and to this there is no necessity of the Magistrates authority, more than we need● the Kings warrant, to put an Obligation upon God's Negative Commandments. All that is Positive is the swearing of a lawful Covenant to observe and stand by the faith and true Religion of the Land, but I see no more a necessity that a King warrant the lawful Vow of twenty thousand, than the Lawful Vow of one Man, seeing it is a lawful profession of CHRIST before Men commanded in the third Commandment. And to the observance of that Law of God, which God and Conscience hic & nunc do oblige us, there is no addition of a Kingly authority by necessity of a Divine Law required to make it valid, no more than if all the Kingdom at such a solemn day of humiliation, should all in every several Church swear to Reformation of life. 5. The Apostles and Christ positively did reform Religion, and the Church without and contrary to the mind of civil authority, nor is it enough to say the Apostles were Apostles, but we are not Apostles, for upon this moral ground, Acts 5. 29. We ought rather to obey GOD than man,) they reform contrary to the Magistrates mind. And we do but contend for that very same Faith, Jud. 3. which was once delivered to the Saints. So to Reform is to seek the old way, and to walks in it, Jeremy 6. 16. to turn to the LORD with all the heart, Jeremy 1. and for this cause, Jeremy 3. 10. judah is said not to veturue to the LORD with her whole heart, but feignedly, because when a zealous King reform, them they returned not with all their heart. Whence Reformation of Religion must be the people's duty, no less than the Kings; and I believe such a divine precept carrying the new sense of our Malignant Divines should be black policy, not sound Divinity, if any jerimiah or Prophet should say; amend your ways and turn to the LORD with all your heart, and put away your Idols and your strange Gods, providing the King will go before you, and command you so to do. Hence I say that's a poor Court-argument of Parasites for Kings. We never read of any Reformation of Religion in Israel and Judah but when holy and zealous Kings commanded the Reformation; Ergo, the Reformation begun in Scotland without the consent of the Supreme Magistrate, and a Reformation now prosecuted in England against the Kings will is unlawful. To which. I desire the Malignant Divines to receive these answers for Justifying the zeal of both Kingdoms in their Reformation. 1. It is a question, if they question not the Reformation according to the substance of the action, that is, if they are not offended that the Queen's Mass, the popery of Prelates and Divines under their wings, and their Arminianism, and Socinianism should be abolished, or if they condemn not the Doctrine, but question only the manner of abolishing such Heterodox stuff. If the former be said, i● is known, never Malignant, Prelate or other had grace, by Word, or Writing, to entreat his Majesty for a Reformation, and this is enough for the former. If they mean the latter, they be very like the Pharisees, who when they durst not question the Doctrine and Miracles of Christ, they only questioned the manner of doing. And said by what authority dost thou these? But because they are joined to the Papists side, and fight under their banner; It is most evident it galleth their stomaches, that Popery, Atminianisine, and Socinianism are cried down; else the manner of doing a good work, and such a necessary work as Reformation, would not have offended them so highly, as to move them to kill the people of GOD; an error in the circumstances of a good work is very venial to Papists and Arminians. 2. Let them give to us, since they argue from a practice, a warrant of any such practice, where a whole Land went on in a Negative Reformation without the Prince Ergo, Negative precepts, by this logic, shall lay no divine obligation on us, except it be the King's will to forbid that which GOD forbiddeth, then suppose Episcopacy and the Ceremonies were the Idol of the Mass established by a standing Law, it should be unlawful for the Kingdoms to forbear and abstain from Idolatry, except the King's Law forbid Idolatry. What were this else but to say, we are obliged to obey Christ's will, but not except with a Reservation of the Kings will? 3. This is an argument Negative, from one particular in Scripture, and therefore not concludent. For it is thus, Reformation without the King wanteth a practice in the Scripture; Ergo, it is unlawful, it followeth not, except it want Precept, Promise and Practice, for the argument Negative from Scripture is only undeniable in this sense; And in this sense only pressed by our Divines against Papists. And therefore it is like this argument, Purgatory is not commanded in this Chapter, Idolatry is not forbidden in this Commandment, Ergo, neither Purgatory, nor Idolatry is forbidden in God's Word. So let the adversaries give me a practice in the Word of God, where a Brother kept this order of Christ's three Steps, Mat. 18. First, to reprove an offender alone. Secondly, before two or three witnesses. Thirdly, in case of obstinacy, to tell the Church; and to these add, that the man was by the Church to be reputed as an heathen and a Publican. And I hope, because such a practice we do not read, yet it followeth not that it is unlawful. So where read you a Man forgiving his Brother seventy seven times: Ergo, it is unlawful to forgive him seventy and seven times? Where read you that Christ and His Apostles, and the Christian Church in the New Testament raised War and Armies either to defend or offend, but I hope Anabaptists have not hence ground to infer, then must all Wars be unlawful to Christians, for we can produce warrantable precepts, where we want practise. Fourthly, where it is said, Kings only are rebuked for not removing high places, and Kings only are commended, because they are removed, therefore none should reform but Kings. This followeth no ways, but only Kings by Royal authority should reform; but it followeth not; Ergo, the people without the King are not obliged to reform themselves in their manner, for I am sure, that the people should all universally resolve and agree, never to sacrifice in the high places and accordingly to practise: And to sacrifice only in the place which the Lord had chosen to place His Name there, at GOD'S express Law commanded, Deuteronomy 13. 23. Deuteronomy 12. 14. 18. Deuteronomy 16. 2. 7. 11. 15. Deut. 31. 11. had been a removal of the high places and a warrantable Reformation, though the King should have, by a standing Law, commanded that they should sacrifice in the high places, for the people are rebuked, because 2 Kings 17. 11. They burned Incense in all the high places, 2 Chronicles 33. 17. Hosea 4. 13. and, a Chronicles 20. 33. the reason why the high places were not taken away, is: For as yet the people had not prepared their Hearts unto the GOD of their Fathers. If then not Sacrificing in the high places was the people's duty, they were to remove the high places, in their place; and so far to reform without the KING, yea suppose the KING command the contrary, the people ought to obey GOD, and the Parliament may by GOD'S Law abolish Episcopacy, popish Ceremonics, and the popish Service though the KING consent not, upon this ground that those he the high places of England, for the which the Wrath of the Lord is kindled against the Land. Fifthly, the adversaries may read, 2 Chronicles 15. 9 That the Strangers out of Ephraim, and Manasseh and Simeon gathered themselves together to Asa without the consent of their KING, and did enter in a Covenant to seek the Lord God of their Fathers. Sixtly, the Pastors of the Land are obliged to preach all necessary truth, without the KING, and accordingly are to practise what they preach; now Reformation is a most necessary truth, they are then to reform themselves and Religion without the KING: for the Word of GOD, not the KING'S will is the Pastor's rule in preaching, and he is to separate the precious from the vile, that he may be as God's Mouth, Jeremy 15. 19 and Ezekiel 2. 7. Thou shalt speak my words unto them, that was the Doctrine of Reformation, not the KING'S words, vers. 8. But, thou son of man, hear what I say to thee; yea Pastors are to preach against Kings and their sins, 1 Kings 13. 1. 2. 3. Jer. 1. 18. jer. 26. 10, 11, 12. Seventhly, if no Reformation can be without the KING, 1. People are not to turn to the Lord, and repent th●m of the evil of their doings, and to prevent the Babylonish captivity, or a worse judgement, except the KING will, and all Religion and. 2. Church-worship must be resolved ultimately on the KING'S will and pleasure: for if it be not the KING'S pleasure to reform, the people must continue still where they were, and Scotland who contrary to the will and heart of authority at our first Reformation put away the Mass and Popery, and established Religion in sincerity, is greatly to be condemned. Luther had authority against him, and the powers of the World, it was one point of Reformation that John Baptist took up, against the Law of the Land to preach against Herod's sin; for if Popery be in a Land, to leave Popery is a great degree of Reformation, and if the people, without the Prince, may go on in the greatest step of Reformation, why not also in the lesser? except you say the people without the King, are not to abstain from the grossest Idolatry under the Sun, which is to worship and adore the work of the Baker's hands. Mr. Mather, Mr. Thomson. The name Church, 1 Cor. 14. 4, 5. 35. 26, 27. 28. is plainly given to that company that did assemble and come together for performance of spiritual duties, and for the exercise of spiritual gifts, as Acts 14. C. 3. pag. 32. 27. Acts 11. 26. 15. 4. 22. 30. 1 Cor. 11. 18. 20 22. 23. 3. joh. 6. which places do abundantly show that a company gathered together to one place is called by the name Church, as Cenc●rea, Rom. 16. 1. which could not contain many Congregations, being but the prot of Corinth. Answ. We seek no more, if it be called a Church which conveneth for performance of spiritual duties: as some of your places do well prove; Ergo, no assembly should have the name of Church, but such as assemble for Word and Sacraments; this now you cannot affirm, and it followeth not, the Church spoken of Matthew 18. is not assembled to Word and Sacraments, But to bind and lose on Earth. The meeting, 1 Cor. 5. 4. is not for Word and Sacraments, but to deliver to Satan, for aught we can read, the word Church, Acts 14. 27. is not an Assembly for Word and Sacraments; but to hear how God had opened the doors of Faith to the Gentiles, and whether this was preaching of the Word and receiving the Sacraments, or rather a matter that concerned the Apostles and Elders that they might not think hard to preach the Gospel to the Gentiles, I leave to the judicious Reader; and if to be received of the Church, Acts 15. 4. be a matter of word and Sacraments, let all judge. And if to lend a decree of a Synod, Acts 15. 22. be the act of a Church assembled for word and Sacraments, let the World judge: and therefore all these places do strongly confirm a Presbytery assembled for acts of jurisdiction, and matters that belong to many Churches, as is most clear, Acts 14. 27. Acts 15. 4. Acts 15. 22. and seeing we find the name (Church) given to a meeting assembled only for discipline or things that concern many Churches, for any thing we can read or observe from the word: as Acts 14. 27. Acts 15. 4 22. 30. Matthew 18. 17. and also the word Church given to a meeting assembled for the word, 1 Cor. 14. 1 Cor. 11. 18. 20, 22, 23. Rom. 16. 1. and not for acts of Jurisdiction for aught that we can collect from the word. I beseech you, Brethren, why do we contend? if the word Church, be a meeting of persons assembled to one place, for spiritual duties, sometimes for word and Sacraments only, sometimes for acts of Jurisdiction only, then is the word Church, by our brethren's argument taken both for the Congregation, and for the Elders of one, or of divers Churches; and so we have our intent. And we desire our brethren to prove (which they must prove, if they oppose our principles) that the word (Church) is never taken for the Eldership only, in all the Word of God, but these places prove the contrary, as I have shown. 2. Whereas our brethren say; a company gathered into one place (which is nothing else but a Congregation) are called by the name of a Church. I answer 1. Such a company is only called by the name of a Church, as I have proved; for a company meeting for discipline only, Matthew 18. 17 1 Cor. 5. 4. is a Church also. 2. It is false that a company gathered in one place are nothing else but a Congregation. As you take the word (Congregation) for to you (Congregation) is an assembly of men and Women meeting for word and Sacrament with the Elders of the Church, I appeal to the judgement of our reverend brethren; If the Church, Mat. 18. 17. assembled to bind and lose, if the Church, 1 Cor. 5. 4. (though the Text speak nothing of the word (Church) assembled to deliver to Satan. If the Church assembled, Acts 14. 27. Acts 15. 2. to hear things which concerned the Apostles, and many Churches, rather than one; If the multitude convened, Acts 15. 30. to hear the decree of the Synod read, and if the Church of Apostles and Elders from Antiosh and jerusalem. Acts 15. 22. be a Congregation or a congregational Church assembled for word and Sacraments, as the word Church is taken, Acts 11. 26. 1 Cor. 11 20, 22, 33. Mr. Mather, and Mr. Thomson, Num. 8. 10. The children of Cap. 3. pag. ●●. Ordination. Israel which were not the Church of Officers laid on hands on the Levites, therefore when a Church hath no Elders the people may confer ordination, and it is not to be tied to the Presbytery only. Hence other of our Brethren say, ordination is but accidental to a Ministers calling, and may be wanting, if the people shall choose, in the defect of Elders. Answ. Here two points are to be discussed shortly. 1. If Ordination belong to the People. 2. If Ordination to a certain stick be necessary, for certainly the people do not call but to a certain flock. To the first I say; There is not a place in all the Word of God where the people confer ordination to the Pastors of the New Testament. Therefore our brethren flee to the Old Testament to prove it from the Levites who received imposition of hands from the children of Israel; but our brethren hold, that the calling of the Levites and of the Pastors of the New Testament are different, as the Officers and Churches of the Jewish and Christian Church are different. 2. Our brethren grant pag. 49. That it wanteth all example in the New Testament that the people lay on hands. 3. These who laid on hands on the Levite, Num. 8. were Elders and (our brethren say,) It is like they were, but. 1. They did it not as Elders. 2. But as representing the people, not as Elders civil, for that belonged to Aaron and his sons, Levit. 8. else it will follow that where the Church Page 46. hath no Magistrate to lay on hands, the Church may do it. Nor did they lay on hands as Ecclesiastical Elders, because what these which laid on hands did, they did as from the Congregation for 1. These Levites were taken in stead of the first borne of Israel and not in stead of the first borne of the Elders only, Num. 3 40, 41. 2. They were presented to the Lord, as an offering of the children of Israel, not of the Elders only. 3. When the multitude brought an oblation, the Elders put their hands on the head of the sacrifice Levit. 4. 15. in stead of all the multitude. Answ. These who laid on hands, did it as a work peculiar to the Elders, because the Elders were a part of the first borne, who by Office were Elders, and in whose stead the Levites were assumed, Num. 3. 40. 41. else the Church of Israel being a constituted Church before this time, wanted Officers, which is against all truth. 2. We grant the Magistrates laid not on hands, but they who laid on hands did it as Ecclesiastical Elders. And the reasons against this conclude not. 1. The first reason concludeth not because these who laid on hands were the first borne, who by Office were Church men. 2. The other two reasons prove nothing, for because these who laid on hands, did lay on hands as representing the whole Congregation, alas it doth no ways conclude that they laid not on hands as it is a works peculiar to them as Elders, for the Priest offered sacrifice first for his own sins, and then for the peoples, Heb. 7. 27. and so did represent the people. But, I hope, it followeth not that therefore the Priest did not sacrifice as a Priest, and by virtue of a peculiar Office, but only as a principal member of the Congregation. 3. What if there be no Elders in a single Congregation, as our brethren suppose there were no Elders in Office in Israel to lay hands on the Levites? it will not follow therefore, the people are to lay on hands, except there were no Elders in all the Land or national Church to lay on hands. And though I think imposition of hands not so essential perhaps as a Minister can be no Minister without it, yet I think not so of Ordination (for these to me are as different as the authoritative calling of a Minster, and a rite annexed to that calling) because none can be a Minister in a constituted Church, but one which is called of God as was Aaron. But you will say, in a Church, in an Island one may be a Pastor without any ordination, if the people elect him, and there be no Elders to ordain. I answer, it is true: but so many Pastors send a Pastor to be a Pastor to a Congregation, though that Congregation never choose him, as possibly they be for the most part Popish, or unwilling, yet both Cases are extraordinary and the Church not constituted and established. M. Mather, if the people may elect Officers, then in some cases they may ordain them! also, because ordination is less than I● 46, 47. election, and dependeth, upon it as a necessary antecedent, and it is nothing but a● consummation of election, or the admission of a person into the possession of that Office, whereto he had right before by election. If then a single Congregation may elect, which is the greater, they may ordain which is the lesser. Answ. Ordination is the more, and election the less; for ordination is an act authoritative of the Presbytery, 1 Tim. 4. 14. and, for aught I see, the authors might argue thus, the people may ordain; Ergo, they may preach and baptise, for all the three are presbyterial acts given to men in office. 2. Some doubt if I said rightly in my former Treatise, that ordination is prior to election, because ordination is that whereby a Minister is made a Minister, and election that whereby he who is a Minister first by order of nature, is made the Minister of such a fl●ck. I will not contend with any of either sides for order. But when I said so, I took the word (election) for the people's actual receiving and their complete taking him for their Minister, after he is now ordained a Minister this is his installing in his Office. And my reason is; because the people's naming of such a man to be their pastor doth stand with his never being their pastor; he being unwilling to be their pastor, and the presbytery thinking it unfit he be the pastor of such a people. 2. The people elect him as a pastor to be their pastor, they do not elect him as a gifted man. And whereas some say. Acts 6. 3. 4, 5. Election of seven men to be Deacons goeth before ordination and imposition of hands, v. 6. Answ. Election of the people goeth before ordination in the relation of Luke, true; Ergo, election is prior by order of nature, it followeth not. But Acts 1. Ordination of Mathias (God casting the lot upon him, vers. 25.) is prior to the people's electing of him, for the people's appointing of two, vers. 23. cannot be their election; for they were to elect one, but I submit to the learneder my thoughts in this. As also my terming Paphnutius neither Bishop nor Elder at the Council of Nice, which I did not as denying him to be a Bishop, but because he was called to that Council of Nice where as before he had been deprived, but was restored by Constantine, though in the estimation of these who contended for the single life of Priests, whose corruptions Paphnutius opposed, he was in an Ecclesiastical sense neither Bishop nor Presbyter but deprived from both. But let the righteous rebuke me, and it shall be as Oil to my Head. 3. It cannot be that election of the people is the whole calling of a man to the Ministry, and Ordination only a supplement and an consummatory rite, or a benedictory sign which may be spared. 1. Because by the imposition of the bands of the Presbytery, Timothy was made a Minister, 1 Timothy 4. 14. Paul and Silas separatted to preach to the Gentiles, Acts 13. 1, 2, 3, 4. the Deacons ordained, Acts 6. 6. and this is enjoined with the right manner of acting it to Timothy, 1 Timothy 5. 22. 2 Timothy 2. 2. as a Ministerial act. 2. A Ministerial caling standeth in an authoritative sending, Romans 10. 15. and I see not well how the people themselves do send a Minister to themselves. (3) The people have not either formally, or by any grant of CHRIST, virtually, the Keys committed to them, how then can they give the Keys to pastors? 4. People may as the Sheep of CHRIST, joh. 10. decern His Voice, and so have a power of Election of their own pastors, nor doth this make good which our Brethren say. Mr. Mather saith, that because they are all taught of God, C. 5. page 51. Esa. 54. 13. and they knew Christ's ' Doctrine, Joh: 7. therefore they may judge of a Ministers fitness, for it is plain that there it a twofold knowledge; one of Christians, Esal. 54. 13. not denied to Women and believing Children, who cannot lay on hands nor ordain Ministers, as the presbytery doth, 1 Timothy 4. 14. Acts 6. 6. Acts 13. 1 2. 3. 1 Timothy 5. 22. 2 Timothy 2. 2. but for trying of Ministers if they be the sons of the Prophets and must be apt to teach, 1 Timothy 3. 1, 2. able to convince subtle Heretics and gainsayers and to put them to silence, Titus 1. 10. 11. there must be in a constituted Church a College of pastors and prophets to try the prophets, with a presbyterial Cognizance. But here some object. If Election be absolutely in the h●●ds of the people, then is the people's will, because will, the absolute determiner who shall be the Pastor to such a flock; but people certainly may err, therefore the Presbytery must be the last determiner in election; And people have only a rational consent, and if their consent be irrational, the Presbyter must choose for them. I answer shortly in these propositions. 1 Pro. Neither is the People infallible in choosing, nor the Presbytery infallible in regulating the people's choice, yet is power of regulating the choice, the presbyteries due, nor power of election to be denied to God's people. 2. Pro. You must suppose the Church a settled and an established Church of sound professors, for if the Congregation or presbytery, either of them be, for the most part, popish, Arminian or unsound in the Faith, in so far hath Christ given neither power to the one, or other. 3. Prop. When it is acknowledged by both people and presbytery, that of two or three men, any one is qualified for the place, than the man is absolutely to be referred to the people's choice, and though the people give no reason why they choose this man, rather than any of the other two, yet i● the People's choice reasonable, for no doubt Acts. 6. there were more men than these seven of good report and full of the Holy Ghost, and fit to be Deacons, therefore the multitudes choice of these seven, and their nomination of them to be Apostles rather than the nomination of any other men is rational and approved by the twelve Apostles, though they give no reason; Yea, though Nicolas be the S●ctmaster of the Nicolaitans (as the learned think) yet the election is Ecclesiastically lawful and needeth not that a reason be given to the Apostles. 4. Prop. We never read that in the Apostles-Church a man was obtruded upon the people against their will. And therefore Election by the people in the Apostolic Church, as Acts 1. 26. Acts 6. 2, 3, 4. Revel. 2. 12. Acts 20. 28. must be our rule, any election without the people's consent must be no Election, for if it please not the whole multitude, as Acts 6. 5. it is not a choice. 5. Prop. We must distinguish Election and Regulation of the Election. 2. There is a Regulation of the Election, positive; and a Regulation negative. Hence the presbyteries power consisteth only in a negative regulation of the people's choice, not in a positive; For example, Election is an elicit act of the people, and their birthright and privilege that Christ hath given to them, and it cannot be taken from them; if there be any Election, it must be made by the people, the presbytery even in case of the people's aberration cannot usurp the act of Election; because the Apostles, who yet had the gift of discerning spirits, in a greater measure than the multitude, remit the choice of the seven Deacons to the multitude; Ergo, the presbytery should do the same; yet may the presbytery negatively reggulate the Election, and if the people out of the humour of itching ears choose an unfit man, in that case the presbytery may declare the Election irregular and null; as suppose the multitude, Acts 6 had chosen such a man, or all the seven men, like Simon Magus, the twelve Apostles by their Ministerial power might have impeded that Election, or rather nomination as irregular, and put them to choose other seven men; but the Apostles could not have chosen for them other seven, for then Election should have been taken out of the people's hands; Hence that distinction of elicit and imperate acts, even as the understanding commandeth and directeth the will to such and such elicit. actions, and regulateth the will therein, and yet the understanding can neither nill, nor will, and the King may punish pastors who preach Heretical doct in & vitiate the Sacrament; but the King can neither preach the word himself, nor administate the Sacraments; so the presbytery may regulate negatively and hinderth Election of an unfit man, but the presbytery cannot do, as the Prelate did who would name a man to the people, and desire their consent (but consent is not all, the presbytery and neighbour Congregations have consent, but no elective liberty given them by Christ) but if the people refused their consent, he Prelate without more a do, chose and ordained the man, and so he was obtruded on the people without any Election at all. Ordination of an ordinary pastor is always to a certain flock, Act. 20. 28. 1 Pet. 5. 1. Rev. 2. 1. yet here must we distinguished dedication to Christ's service by the office. 2. The exercise of the office, in the former respect the pastor is a pastor every where, and may be sent as a Pastor to plant Churches, but ratione finis. He is primariò principally to feed this flock, and secundario and ratione med●i, secondarily, while he feedeth this flock, he feedeth the Church universal. Mr. Mather, if people may not m●dle with ordination, because it Ib. c. 59 is proper to Timothy and Titus, this may prove that they were Bishops who did ordain Elders there alone, which ministers may not do there; for these Epistles are not written to them, as Bishops alone, nor as Elders alone, but as to a mixed state, including the people. Answ. Some parcels of these Epistles are written to Timothy and Titus as Evangelists, such as none may now do but they only, ●● 2 Tim. 4. 4. 1 Tit. 1. 3. Tim. 1. 5. and some other things which they gave in charge to Elders. 2. Some things are written to them as Christians, as 1 Tim. 1. 19 Tit. 3. 3. & finaliter or objectively all is written for the Churches good; but (3) the builk of the Epistle is written to them as Elders, and is a rule of perpetual government, and especially, 1 Tim. 1. 22. 2. Tim. 2. 2. for these and the like they were to do with the presbytery, as is clear, 1 Tim. 1. 14. Object. The Congregations of Jerusalem were not fixed in their members and officers, only the Apostles preached to them (if they were many congregations, which is possible) in a circular way, now one Apostle to this assembly, than another. But in regard not one Paster could say (this is my flock, not this) nor any flock could say (Peter is our Pastor, not Andrew.) Therefore there was no Church-state in any of these congregations as where there is not a head of a Family and members, there is not a Family, and so you prove not Jerusalem a presbyterial Church over many fixed and form Churches, as they are in Scotland, and if the Apostles were pastors in a circular and fluid way to many congregations, every one was a pastor to many congregations and so elected by many congregations: which is absurd. Ans. 1. Fixed or not fixed cannot vary the essence of the government. 1. The Priests, Levites, and Prophets teaching in the wilderness from place to place, and the people by war scattered to sundry Tribes, doth not make these meetings not to be under the government of the great Sanedrim, more than if the meeting made a fixed Synagogue, divers members and dverso heads in one Family occasioned by death, and pestilence, divers Soldiers and new Commanders in a Regiment, divers Inhabitants, yea and weekly altered rulers and watchmen in a City, doth not infer that that family, Regiment, and City is not under one government of the City, one of the whole army, and one parliamentary law of the whole kingdom; no more than if all were fixed in members and heads. 2. Churches their persecution may have both members and teachers removed to a corner, and altered, yet they remain the same single Congregation having the same government. 3. Officiating in the same word, seals, censures, by Peter, to day, and by Andrew, to morrow, though members also be changed, is of the same species and nature, even to the worlds and, if we suppose the Church of jerusalem to be one Congregation enduring a pattern these sixteen hundred years, members and officers must be often altered, yet it is one Congregation in specie, and one single Church in nature, though not in number, and the government not altered, through the fluidity and alteration of members and officers, as it is the same Parliament now which was in the reign of King james, though head and members be altered; fluidity and alteration of rulers and members must be, by reason of mortality accidental to all incorporations, and yet their government for all that doth remain the same in nature, if these same Laws, and Government in nature by these Laws remain. CHAP. 4. SECT. 5. Why we do not admit the Members of the Churches of Old England to The way of Churches of Christ in New England. the Seals of the Covenant. Quest. I. Whether the Seals of the Covenant can be denied to professors of approved piety, because they are not members of a particular visible Church, in the New Testament. Our Brethren deny any Church Communion, and the seals of the Covenant, Baptism, to the children of Believers, the Lords Supper to believers themselves, who come to them from Old England, because they be not members of the particular Congregation to which they come, and because there is no visible, Church in the New Testament, but one particular Parish, and all who are without a particular Parish, are without the visible Church, and so are not capable of either Church censures, or the Seals of the Covenant, because 〈◊〉 have right to the seals of the Covenant, but only this visible Church. We hold all who profess faith in Christ, to be members of the visible Church, though they be not members of a visible Congregation, and that the seals of the Covenant should not be denied to them. And for more full clearing of the question, let these considerations be observed. First, Dist. All believers, as believers, in foro Dei, before God have right to the seals of the Covenant, these to whom the Covenant and body of the Charter belongeth, to these the seal belongeth, but in foro Ecclesiastico, and in an orderly Churchway, the seals are not to be conferred by the Church upon persons because they believe, but because they profess their believing: therefore the Apostles never baptised Pagans, but upon profession of their faith. Second Dist. Faith in Christ truly giveth right to the seals of the Covenant, and in God's intention and decree, called voluntas beneplaciti, they belong only to the invisible Church, but the orderly way ●f the Churches giving the seals, is, because such a society is a professing or visible Church, and orderly giving of the seals according to Gods approving will, called, voluntas signi & revelata, belongeth to the visible Church. Third Dist. The Church may orderly and lawfully give the seals of the Covenant to those to whom the Covenant and promises of grace doth not belong in God's decree of election. Fourth Dist. The Church may lawfully add to the Church visible, such as God addeth not to the Church invisible, as they may add Simon Magus, and the Church may lawfully cast out of the visible Church, such as Christ hath not cast out of the invisible Church, as the Church may excommunicate regenerate persons for scandalous sins. fifth Dist. Then the regenerate excommunicated have right to the seals of the Covenant, as they have to the Covenant, and yet the Church doth lawfully debar them, hic & nunc, in such a scandalous case, from the seals of the Covenant. We hold that those who are not members of a particular Congregation, may lawfully be admitted to the seals of the Covenant. First, Because those to whom the promises are made, and profess the Covenant, these should be baptised. But men of approved piety are such, though they be not members of a particular Parish. The proposition is Peter's argument, Act. 2. 38. Secondly, Those who are not Members of a particular Church may be visible professors, and so members of a visible Church, Ergo, the seals of the Covenant belongeth to them. Thirdly, The contrary opinion hath no warrant in God's Word. Fourthly, The Apostles required no more of those whom they baptised, but profession of belief, as Act. 10. 47. Can any forbid water that these should not be baptised, who have received the Holy Ghost, as well as we? Act. 8. 37. If thou believest with all thy heart, thou mayest he baptised: no more is sought of the Jailor, Act. 16. 31. 34. The Author saith: To admit to the Seals of the Covenant, is The way of the Churches of New England, Chap. 4. Sect 5. not an act of Christian liberty, that every Christian may dispense to whom he pleaseth, but an act of Church power given to the Ministers, to dispense to those over whom the Holy Ghost hath made them overseers; but we have no Ministerial power over those of another Congregation, and who are not members of a particular Congregation. Answ. First, To dispense the Seals to whom we please, as if men's pleasure were a rule, were licentiousness, not Christian Liberty. There may be a communion of benefits, where there is no communion of punishment: Beneficia sunt amplianda. Secondly, It is false that Pastors have no Ministerial power over those who are not of their Congregation; for if so, all communion of Churches should fall, for Letters of recommendation from other Churches, whereof they are Members, cannot make Pastors of New England to have a Ministerial power over those of another Congregation, as set over them, by the Holy Ghost, as they are set over their own Parish, to whom they be only Pastors, having Ministerial power, by a Church Covenant, and the people's Ordination, as our Brethren teach. 2. Manuser. Those over whom (saith our Author) we have no power of censure, over those we have no power to dispense the communion. Now if we should censure any such for drunkenness, or other scandals, who are not of our Congregation, it should be a non habente potestatem, an act done by those who have no power. Answ. The major proposition by your own Doctrine, is clearly false, for you say your a Chap. 6. Sect. 1. self, Strangers sojourning with us, members of other Churches, known not to be scandalous, are admitted to the Lords Supper; yet can you not excommunicate strangers, sojourning for a time, falling in scandals. For, First, to you they are without, how then can you judge them? as you say. Secondly, You have by the holy Ghost no ministerial power over them, as over your own flock, as you expone, Act. 20. 28. Thirdly, You look aside at excommunication, for those of other Churches consociated in a class, we do lawfully excommunicate and censure; for excommunication is not a cutting off of a person from one single Parishional Church only, as you imagine, but a cutting off of a person from all the visible Churches consociated: first, because he is delivered to Satan, and his sin is bound in heaven, in relation to all the faster Churches, and is so to be esteemed, and not in reference to the one single Congregation, whereof he is a member. Secondly, all are to be humbled and mourn for his fall, and to consent he be cut off, and not one single Congregation only. Thirdly, all consociated Churches shall be leavened, by keeping Church-fellowship with such a lump. Fourthly, all are to repute him as a Heathen, and a Publican. Fifthly, all are to admonish him as a Brother, 2 Thessalon. 3. 15. Sixthly, all are to forgive him, and receive him in Church-communion, if he shall repent, and occasionally to edify him as a brother. The Seals of righteousness of faith a Manuser. ibid. 2. saith the Author) are not seals to the faithful as such, but as they are joined together and confederate in some visible Church, none but in a visible Church may dispense the seals, in the O●d Testament, none were partakers either of the Passeover, or of Circumcision, unless they were either Israelites borne, or proselytes in the Church of Israel. We read not that Job and his friends, though righteous through faith, were circumcised, nor would they have omitted to speak of Circumcision, as of a pertinent evidence of the corruption of man's nature, of which they speak much; the Sacraments (saith this same Author b lb. Sect. 6. are not given to the invisible Church, nor to the members thereof as such, but to the visible particular Churches of Christ, and to the members thereof; therefore the seals are not to be givento those, who are of no particular visible Church? Answ. 1. The Seals of the Covenant are principally given to the invisible Church, as the Covenant itself in God's decree of election is especially made with the elect, and such as shall never fall away, as is clear, Jer. 31. 37. Jer. 32. 40. Esay 54 10. Heb. 8. 9 10. and the invisible Church as such, as a number of believers have only right before God to both Covenant and seals, yea and consequently are only Christ's body and Spouse, and redeemed Saints, and so only have all the power of the keys, and the ministerial power of dispensing the Seals, and by our brethren's doctrine, the visible Church not as visible, but as the true body, Spouse, and Bride of Christ, & so as the invisible company of the redeemed ones have the Seals, and Covenant, and so all Ministerial power of Christ is given unto them. 2. It is true the orderly and Ecclesiastic way of dispensing the Seals, is that they be dispensed only to the visible Church, but this visible Church is not one parish, but all professing the faith of Christ, though they be not joined in one visible parish by one Church oath, as the Author meaneth: for the Saints in Scripture, as Cornelius, the Eunuch, the Jailor, did profess and visibly evidence their faith, and so that they were capable of the Seals by desiring to be saved, and saying, What shall we do to be saved, by trembling at the Word of God, by ask the meaning of the Word of God, which expressions are in many not inchurched to particular Congregations, not did the Apostles ask if they were members of one parish before they baptised them, but if they believed in Christ. 3. Whether Job, his friends, Melchisedeck, Lot, and others the like were circumcised, we need not dispute, but that they were not circumcised, because they were not in a visible Church estate with Abraham, is a question and uncertain, and therefore not sure to be a foundation of new opinions in Church Government; but though it were granted, it followeth not, because none were circumeised but Abraham's seed, and all, and only Abraham's seed were circumcised, therefore none are to be baptised but those who are members of one particular Congregation: Alas this is a weak● consequence, rather it followeth all borne of Jews were circumcised, Ergo all borne of Christian parents are to be baptised; and we see not but sacrificing was restricted to the visible Church, no less than Circumcision, yet Job sacrificed to God, Job 1. and Chap. 42. The Author addeth The difference here is. The circumcised in Israel might rightly keep the Passeover amongst themselves, because the whole nation of Israel made but one Church, and the officers and ministers of any one Synagogue and the Priests and Levites were ministers in common of the whole house of Israel, in proportion whereunto they that are baptised in any particular Church may in like manner require the Lords Supper, if there be no other impediment, in regard of their unfitness, to examine themselves, which is a thing requisite, to receive the Lords Supper, more than was required to receive the Passeover. But now because the Churches of the new Testament are of another constitution, than the national Church of all Israel, baptism in one Church doth not give a man right to the Lords Supper in another, unless the Officers of the one Church were Officers of all (as in Israel they ●er●) or unless that one Church and the Officers thereof did recommend their right and power to another. Answ. 1. It is true, in the one Church of Israel there was something typical, that is not in our Churches, as one Temple, ●●e high Priest, one place of sacrificing, one Priesthood, one A●ke, etc. but this was peculiar to Israel, as such a specifice Church, and typified also the external visible unity of the whole visible Church of the new Testament in professing one Lord, one Faith, one Baptism, one external communion, and government external, de jure: but this agreed not to the Church of Israel properly as a Church; for as a Church of a nation they might convene and assemble themselves in one national Assembly to reform Religion, to renew a national Covenant, to turn away a national judgement, to make national acts, that they should seek the Lord God of Israel, and put away strange wives, Deut. 29. 2 Chron. 15. 12, 13. Nehem. 10. and this is moral, yea natural to a number of Churches united in one nation, and no ways typical. 2. The proportion betwixt Israel and a parishional Church is questioned, the Author beggeth what is in question, for it is evident that in God's Word there is a visible Church of many Congregations, associated in many visible acts of government. 3. If the Church of Israel and the Churches of the New Testament be of different constitutions, as Anabaptists, Arminians and Socinians teacheth, we shall try. I affirm that the Constitution in matter and form was one with the Christian visible Church. 1. Our brethren bring arguments from the constitution of the Church of the Jews, that for matter they were a holy people, a royal generation, for form they were united in one Church-state covenant-ways, as they prove from Deut. 29. 2. Separation from sin and the wicked world, but not from the worship of God, was commanded to them, Psal. 26. 5, 6. Esay 52. 11. 2 Cor. 6. 7. Levit. 26. 11, 12. Communion with the wicked was forbidden to Israel, 2 Chron. 19 2. 2 Chron. 30. 6. but communion in worship both in the Synagogue and Temple was commanded to them. 3. That God required not moral preparation in them for eating the Passeover, as he doth in us, before we eat the Lords Supper, I conceive to be an untruth. 1. Because not to profane the holy things of God, and not to take God's Law in their mouth and to hate to be reform, Psal. 50. 16. not to sacrifice with bloody hands, Esa. 1. 11, 12, etc. Psal. 50. 8, 9, 10. Esa 66. 1. was moral, and did bind and oblige the Jews as they do us, and 2 Chron. 30. 6. The posts are sent to gather the people to the Passeover, charging them to turn to the Lord God of their fathers, not to be like their fathers; and it is clear by Hezekiab● prayer, ver. 18, 19 Good Lord pardon him that prepareth his heart to seek the Lord God of his fathers, though he be not cleansed according to the purification of the Sanctuary, verse. 20. And the Lord harkened, and healed the people. Ergo, there was required a preparation of the heart for the right eating of the Passeover, besides the typical and ceremonial preparation. Yea God counted the ceremonial preparation void of the moral preparation, but abomination, as Esa. 66. 1. Esa. 58. 3, 4, 5, 6. and Josiahs' Passeover is commended from this, 2 Kings 23. 22 (as Junius well observeth) that none did with such care and zeal, as Josiah did prepare the Pr●es●s, the people and himself for the passover, in removing all Idolatry and abomination, and in renewing their Covenant and resolution, verse. 3. To walk after the Lord, and to keep his Commandments with all their heart, and with all their soul. 4. The unclean and uncircumcised in heart were no more members of the true and invisible Church of the Jews, and of Christ's mystical body, his Spouse, his royal generation, than Sodom and Gomorrah, Esa. 1 10. then the Ethiopians, Amos, 9 7. then Ammon and Moah, J●r. 9 25, 26. as in the New Testament, and the true invisible Church amongst them, as amongst us were Kings and Priests unto God, Exod. 19 5. 9 Psal. 149. 1. as we are, 1 Pet. 2. 9, 10. Rev. 1. 5. 5. Amongst them no man could invade the Priest's office, or run unsent, no more then under the New Testament, Heb. 5. 4. 1 Tim. 4. 22. though they were to rebuke one another, Levit. 19 and they had sacrifices for sins of ignorance, Levit. 4. 27. 2. The place seemeth not to want difficulty, how many sacrifices would men offer, how often, yea while they were going home from Jerusalem (which was a long Journey to many) they might fall in these sins of ignorance, and as a Paget. Master Paget noteth there was no dispensation for this Law, yet when Abraham traveled three days to Mount Moriah from Beersheba in the South, and some of the Tribes Northward, would be als far distant, it would be seven day's journey to many; therefore the Text is, if be sin 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in ignorance, or through ignorance, that is, merely of ignorance, as when a man in drunkenness killed a man, he shall offer a trespass offering for it, the Jews call it in their Language 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 timgnol, magnal, for 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 megnal signifieth Pallium, if he sinned with a cloak 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 casten over his eyes, and b Weemes ●. par. c. 14. pag. 68 Weemes said the sins were done of ignorance, not ignorantly, or the word in the Hebrew, is vel notificatum fuerit ei peccatum ejus, when the conscience is wakened and convinced, and he can find no rest, let him offer sacrifices. And a third step was excommunication and casting out of the Synagogue after the captivity, which are the very degrees of our Church censure. They answer, Israel had civil c Robinson justific. pag. 202, 203. government which we have not. I answer, Deut. 17. 9 He that will not hearken to the Priest (that standeth before the Lord to minister) or unto the Judge, even that man shall die. He saith not, He that hearkeneth not unto the People. 2. They say they could not in Israel forgive one another's sins, as we do in the New Testament. Answ. It is a divine Law in the Old Testament, they were to forgive even their enemies, Prov. 20. 22. etc. a Robinson 〈…〉 P. 202, 203. Robinson saith, No Church hath the absolute promise of the Lords visible present, which that Church then had, till the coming of Christ, Gen. 47. 10. and 17. 7. Exod. 19 43, 44. It was simply necessary that the Messiah should be borne in the true Church. 3. In their deepest apost asy God showed them some signs of his presence, by raising up some godly King, Priest, or Prophet. Answ. That they had Prerogatives above us is clear, Rom. 3. 1, 2, 3. Rom. 9 4. and that in other respects, far more excellent, we have Prerogatives above them, is as clear, 2 Cer. 3. 7, 8, 9 Matth. 13. 16, 17. So one Christian Church have Prerogatives above another, but the essential constitution of the Church of the Jews, and ours is one. 1. They were a ro●a●d Priesthood, a People holy to the Lord, the Covenant made with them, as with us. 2. To them one little Leaven, leavened the whole lump. 3. Separation from sin and Idolatrous worship was commanded them, as it is us. 4. Amongst them, none who hated to be reform, were to take the Law of God in their mouth. But to return to our Author, it is a false ground that one that is Baptised in one Church, hath not right to the Lords Supper in all Churches, for if he be Baptised to Christ's death, he is Baptised to all Churches. And 2. professedly in Covenant with God in all Churches, and so hath right to the seals of the Covenant in all Churches, for God's Covenant is not principally and first made with a Parishional Congregation, but with the Catholic and universal Church coming under the name of Israel and judah; and secondarily with a Parishional Congregation. Is a believer a member of Christ's body in one Congregation and not in all Congregations? Hath he the keys as a member of Christ's body, and a dwelling house for the holy Spirit in one Congregation, and loseth them and the holy Spirit both when he goeth to another Congregation? Manuscript, Those who come from England to us are under public Manus●●●. ibid. scandals and reproach. It is an offence that they come to us, as members of no particular Church visible, (for they leave that relatiin where they left their habitation) but of one national Church, whereof Christ hath given us no pattern in the New Testament, and in 〈◊〉 he hath appointed no national worship to be performed. Answ. It is admirable that leaving a Parishional Church in England, they leave not the true visible Church, so all the Parishional Churches in England must be separated from, as ●●om no Churches; yet in that Church, many of you had your Baptism, your conversion to Christ, your calling to the Miniment. 2. How can it be an offence to be Members of no independent Churches in England, whereas no such may be had there? 3. Is it a fault to be members of a national Church? see if Act. 1. Act. 6. Act. 15. there be not a Church-meeting, and public exercise of praying, discussing of matters by the Word, choosing of officers, refuting of false Doctrine? This is worship, and it is not the worship of a particular Church, but there be no true Churches but yours, and all are in offences and scandals, who are not members of your Churches; this a August lib. 2. c. 5, 6, 7. vos ergo, qua●e sacreliga separatione pacis vin●ulum d●s●●●●pitis? Augustine layeth to Donatists, this b Pareus come. in Matth. 18. Pareus layeth upon Au●baptists, that they taught, they only were the true Church. I conceive our dear Brethren are not of this mind. Manuscript, It is a public offence, that though they were Baptised in some Parish Church in England (saith the Author) upon som● Covenant and stipulation of Parents, or Godfathers, which also was without warrant, yet they come to the Lords Table, without any public profession of their faith or repentance? Answ. To say nothing of Godfathers, who are civil witnesses, that the Parents shall take care to educate the child, in the true Faith, we see no public profession by a Church-oath, (as you mean) in the Church of Corinth, but only that every man was to try himself, and then to eat, nor in the Apostles Church at all, if you debar them from the Lords Supper, who are not inchurched by your Oath, all the reformed Churches on Earth did never worthily eat and drink the Lords body and blood. It is (saith he) a public offence, that in the Parish Manuscr. Communion (which not Communion of spirits, but cohabitation begetteth) they partake with all ignorant and scandalous persons, not excluding drunkards, profane swearers, whereby it cometh to pass that not a little leavin, but a great measure of leavin doth deeply leavin the whole lump. Answ. This toleration of drunkards and swearers in the Lord's Church, and at his Table, infecteth and is apt to leavin all, with their evil conversation, but doth not leavin the worship to the fellow-worshippers, nor is the sin of private persons, yea nor of our Ministers, who hath not power to help it, (but it is the fault of the Church) except you make no separation from a Church where a scandalous person is tolerated (for suffering moe or sewer doth not vary the spece) to be a sin publicly to be repent, before any can be members of your Church, which is prodigious to us. Fourthly, It is a public offence (saith the Author) that they have worshipped God, according to the precepts of men, etc. Answ. This is the crime of conformity which I wish were publicly repent, by all which hath defiled themselves with submitting to a Antichristian government, and the Will-worship of men, yet doth not this make Ministers no Ministers, so as they must receive Ordination to the Ministry of new. Peter's fall took not away his Apostleship, nor Jonah● flying from God, nor David's adultery made them not leave off to be Prophets. Other arguments that I find in Papers from New England are these: First, There is not a Church (say they) under the New Testament, but a congregational Church, so it will follow, that as City privileges belong only to the Citizens and their children, so baptism and the Lords Supper, being Church privileges, belong only to the Members of particular Churches, and their seed; and that seeing sigillum sequitur donum, to apply them to any other, is to abuse them. As the scale of an Incorporation is abused, when it is added to confirm a gift to one who is not a Free man of that Incorporation, he being incapable thereof. Answ. First, The case is not here, as in earthly Cities, a man who is a free Citizen in one burrow is not for that a free Citizen of all the Burrougheses and Cities on earth; nor is he who is civilly excommunicated and cast out of his City privileges in one City, cast out of his City privileges in all other Cities, whereof he is a free member: and the reason is, there is not one common owner, and Lord of all the Cities on earth, who can give, or take away, in a Law-way, City privileges; but the case is far otherways in the privileges of visible Churches, for he who is a member of one visible Congregation, is by his baptism, and sincere profession, and his professed standing in Covenant with God, a Member of all visible Congregations on earth, as he is baptised in all Congregations on earth; and if he be excommunicated out of a single Congregation, he is excommunicated out of all, and loseth right to the Scale of the Lords Supper, in all visible Congregations, as his sins are bound in heaven to all also, for that one common head and Saviour, who giveth him right to the Seals of Christ's body and blood in one, giveth him right to these Seals in all. For we worthily communicate with Christ in his body and blood, 〈◊〉 his body was broken, and his blood shed for one single visible Congregation, but as broken and shed for the whole 〈…〉 universal. But this form of reasoning utterly abolisheth all Communion of Churches, nor can a member of one Noble Church be capable of the Seals of grace in another visible Church, because he is not a Member of that visible Church, no more than one is capable of the Privileges of Paris, who is only a Citizen of London, and not a Citizen of Paris. If it be said, one who is a member of a visible Church, may receive the Seals in another Congregation, if he be recommended by Letters, as a sound Professor, to that other Congregation. I Answer, Recommendatory Letters can never give a Church-right to the Church-Priviledges of the Seals of the Covenant, they do but only notify, manifest, and declare the Church-right, which the man had before. Ergo, either he cannot in any sort be capable of the Seals of the Covenant in another Congregation, than his own, whereof he is an inchurched Member, which destroyeth all communion of sister Churches, or if he be capable of the Seals in another Congregation, he was capable and h●d a Church-right, in himself, before he received reconime●●a●ory Letters: yea, these whom we recommend by Letters as ●it to partake of the Sacraments in another Congregation, ●● presuppose they have Church-right to the Seals in another Congregation visible, then in their own, whereof they are members; except our testimony be false. Ergo, before our recommendatory Letters, the person of approved piety was a member of all the visible Churches about, hoc ipso, and by that same reason, that he is a member of one visible Congregation; yea Peter clearly insinuateth that all who have received the Holy Ghost, are to be baptised, Act. 8. 47. as Philip, Act. 8. 37. and That if the Eunuch believed, be might be baptised. So that Faith, to speak properly, doth give us right to the Seals, and to speak accurately, a visible profession of faith doth not give a man right to the seals of grace, but only it doth notify and declare to the Church, that the man hath right to the seals because he believeth, and that the Church may lawfully give to him the seals, and that profession is a condition required in the right receivers of the seals in an Ecclesiastical way; but faith giveth the right to these seals, and because the faith of the believer goeth with the believer, when he goeth to another visible congregation than his own, that faith giveth him right to the seals in all places, and in all Congregations: for faith giveth right to receive Christ Sacramentally, not in one Congregation only, but in all, and a visible profession doth, as a condition notify this faith, and Church-right in all Congregations. Ergo, the man hath right in all Congregations, as he hath right in a parishional Church. But our Brethren reply, Peter might baptise Cornelius, though he was no member of a visible Congregation, because the Apostles being officers in all Churches, might dispense the Seals in all Churches: but Ministers now are pastors only of the determinate flock, over which the holy Ghost hath set them, therefore they have not City Seales at their power to dispense to any other then to Citizens. Answ. Peter his argument to Baptise is not from a temporal reason, that endureth for a while, but from a moral argument of perpetual equity and necessity, till Christ's second coming. He that believeth and hath received the holy Ghost is to be baptised. But many out of Church-state, and who are not members of a particular Congregation, have received the Holy Ghost, and do believe, being Christians of approved piety; we are to add no restrictions, or exceptions where God addeth none. Non est distinguendum, ubi lex non distinguit. They that believe should receive the seals, but not except they be inchurched and members of a particular Congregation. The proposition is God's Word, but the restriction or exception is not God's Word. 2. The Apostles, though they were universal Pastors of the world, yet teach us by word and practice, who are to be admitted to the seals, even to the supper, those who do try and examine themselves, and that to the end of the world. 2. Our brethren say, It is probable that Cornelius was in Church-state, and the Eunuch coming to Jerusalem to worship, argueth he was a proselyte, and a member of the Jewish Church not yet dissolved; Lydia and the jailor were members of the Church of Philippi, which Church communicated with Paul at the beginning of the Gospel, Psal. 4. 15. at least it is probable, that Lydia was a member of the Church of the Jews. Answ. It is hard to build a new Church government contrary to the doctrine of the reformed Churches upon probabilities. 2. If Cornelius, Lydia and others were members of the Jewish Church, it was not a good consequence by our brethren's doctrine to make them members of a Christian Congregation, without inchurching of them by your Church-oath, for you make the constitution of the Jewish Church, and ours different; yea and as you teach, all circumcised were members of the Jewish Church, and had right to their Passeover, but all circumcised are not meet to be members of a Christian Church, for many circumcised were Idolaters, murderers, profane monkey's of God, Esay 1. 13, 14, 15, 16. Jer. 10. 7, 8, 9, 10, 11. Ezek, 10. 6. 17. 18, 9 And though the Church of Philippi was one of the 〈◊〉 Church 〈◊〉 communicated with Paul, yet was there no Christian Church of Elders and people there, when Lydia was converted, for Acts 16. 13. in the place where prayer was wont to be made on the Sabbath day, none heard Paul preach, but some women, Ergo there could not be a Christian Church there; and it is certain the jailor before was a persecutor, and no member of a Christian Church. They say Abraham and his seed were not circumcised, till God called him into Church-Covenant, and so into Church-state, and there is the same reason and use of baptism, as of circumcision. If the argument taken for baptising of infants be good, why may we not inserre a necessity of Church-membership, before baptism, as of Church membership before circumcision? So the Apology saith. It cannot be proved that Apology cap. 11. baptism was imposed upon all believers, as such, no more than it can be proved that circumcision was imposed upon all believers as such; and Baptism is no more now necessary to a believer, whose calling or another strong hand of God's providence will not suffer to live in Church fellowship with God's people, than circumcision was necessary to Melchisede●k, Job or others, whom the hand of God detained from Church-fellowship, with the posterity of Abraham; yea circumcision and the Passeover, seeing they were administrated in private houses, might more conveniently be administrated to persons not in Church-state, nor Baptism and the Lords Supper can be administrated so, in respect they are seals given to a Church body in an assembly, 1 Cor. 10. 17. and 12. 13. Answ. Abraham, Sarah, and the Souls they had gotten in Charran, were in Church-state, obeyed God, built an Altar Gen. 12. 2, 3, 4. before the Church Covenant, which you speak of, Chap. 17. and it is denied that that supposed oath of the Covenant made them a Church: So we see no necessity of Church-membership, to one single Congregation, before either circumcision or baptism; for baptism is a seal of our entry into the visible Church, as I shall prove. 2. We say not that baptism is imposed on all who believeth, as they are such, for God saveth divers believers, who are not baptised, but Gods will, the supreme I aw-giver, here is to be looked into, God would have no circumcision from Adam to Abraham, and would himself have the people want circumcision in the Wilderness forty years, and would have it administrated in private houses, it being a bloody and painful Sacrament, but we have an express Commandment of God to baptise all ordinarily of the visible Church; yet not because they are members of one single Congregation, but because they believe & testify themselves to be members of the visible Church in general: we deny that the want of membership in a particular Congregation, is that strong band that should hinder baptism or the seals of the Covenant. God hath appointed no lawful calling, such as traffiquing by Seas & sequent travelling ordinary to transient members of the visible Church, to be inconsistent with the lawful partaking of the ordinances of grace, & seals of the Covenant; for only those who do not try and examine themselves, and are profanely scandalous are excluded, as swine, from the holy things of God, and from the Lords Supper, not men, because they are necessarily busied in a lawful calling, and must ordinarily travel to far countries, and so cannot be members of a single parish. 1. This is a physical impediment and not a sin, nor a moral impediment, excluding any from the Seals of grace, yea and an unwritten tradition. 2. I speak against that difference which the author maketh, betwixt the seals of grace in the Old Testament, and the seals of grace in the New Testament, for there were Physical and civil defects in the Old Testament, which by a divine Law, made some incapable of the Passeover, as if any were Lepers, bastards, borne Moabites and Ammonites, or typically unclean, or had touched the dead, they could not eat the Passeover, though otherwise they did believe in Christ to come, and were morally clean, but by the contrary under the New Testament, there be no Physical or ceremonial defects, no callings, no civil relations, but only moral defects, and sinful scandals, which doth exclude men from the Seals of grace, except you bring in ceremonies in the New Testament, of your own devising, for all Nations, so they believe in Christ, Jew, or Gentile, Barbarian, or Scythian, bond or free, male or female, are to be baptised, Matth. 28. 19 God is no accepter of 〈◊〉, or Nations, or callings, Act. 10. 34, 35. compare this with ver. 46, 47. and Gal. 3. 27. For as many of you as have been baptised unto Christ, have put on Christ, v. 28. There is neither jew nor G●●ek there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female, for 〈◊〉 all me in Christ Jesus, so Gal. 6. 15. For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision● waileth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature. I must then say, it is boldness in men to say, that there is a lawful calling in the New Testament, which our Brethren are pleased to call the strong hand of God, which maketh persons who are new creatures, and baptised unto Christ, uncapable of the seals of grace. Dear Brethren, yield to the clear and evident truth of God. And for this cause, the seals of the New Testament must be more necessary in this respect, than were the Seals in the Old Testament. Our Brethren say, All circumcised might eat the Passeover (though I doubt much of it) and might enter into the Temple, if they were not legally unclean, but all baptised may not ca●e the Lords Supper; and all baptised, though excommunicated, may enter into the congregation for the public worship, hearing the word, praying, praising, etc. But all circumcised, might not enter into the congregation. The places 1 Cor. 10. 17. and 12. 13. prove not, that the Seals of grace are administrated to a Church body, of a particular congregation only, as they are such; for these seals are common to all the visible Churches on earth. We many are one body, it is not to be exponed, We many are of one Parishional Congregation, and only are one body; but We many of all the visible Churches on Earth, are one body in Christ. This you must say, except you deny all visible communion of sister Churches. The Object. They who are not capable of Church censures, are not capable of Church Privileges. But those that are not within the Church covenant of a particular congregation, are not capable of Church censure. The proposition being evident, the assumption is proved, 1 Cor. 5. 12. What have I to do to judge those who are without, that is, without the communion of a particular congregation, So Amesius, de consc. l. 4. c. 24. quest. 1. resp. ad. Answ. First, I answered before, the major is false, by your own doctrine, those of another Congregation cannot be censured, but by their own congregation, yet by Letters of recommendation, they may receive the Lords Supper in another Congregation. Also strangers of approved piety, may be capable of Church rebukes, which are Church censures. Secondly, The place, 1 Cor. 5. 12. is manifestly abused, for by those who are without, are meant only the Insidels and Heathens who are without the whole visible Church, and not those of approved piety, who are baptised and profess the truth sincerely: for Peter Martyr, Beza, Calvin, Marlorat, Pareus, Zwinglius, so also Haymo, Aquinas, expone it with us; which is clear, first, by the phrase of speaking (What have I to do?) being a note of estrangement, as, Joh. 2. 4. Woman what have I to do with thee? and 2 Sam. 16. 10. David said, What have I to do with you, ye sons of Zerviah? now Paul and the faithful at Corinth are not estranged from those of approved piety of other Congregations, he took care to edify and rebuke them, and so are all the Saints to edify, censure, and rebuke one another. Morton Ap●log. part 1 ●. 477. 478 f●r is sunt generaliter omnes, qui non dederunt sua nomina Christo: Aug, tom. 1, ser●. 6, non tollo idola Ethnicorun, quia non habe● in illos potestatem habe● autem cum fuerin● facti Christiani: Thirdly, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, always those who are without, are taken in an ill part, in the Word of God, as Mark. 4. 11. Those who are without, are the blinded and hardened, and Rev. 22. 15. for without are dogs, our Brethren expone it of the visible Church. Now not to be in Membership of such a particular congregation, is not a sin, nor a just ground of Paul's estrangement of his Ministerial power from them, it may be caused by persecution when the flock are scattered by Wolves. Fourthly, Those who are here without, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, are left by Paul to the immediate judgement of God, and not to be judged of the Church, ver. 13. But them that are without God judgeth. Now those who are members of another congregation than the Church of Corinth, or members of no particular congregation, and yet of approved piety, are not left to the immediate judgement of God, because they are without. The banished servants of God, who suffer for the Truth, or transient members, who because their calling is ordinarily traffiquing, and so not consistent with a membership in a settled congregation, are they (I say) without, not to be edified by the censures of the Church, but left to the immediate judgement of God? this is contrary to God's Word, and an insolent interpretation, and I find i● not in your place of Amesius. They reason from inconveniencies, Hence (say they) Church Apol. ch. 5. assemblies shall be confused meetings, if all out of Church membership ●e admitted. Answ. If by confused meetings you mean, meetings of sound believers and hypocrites, than Christ's Kingdom compared to a draw-net, wherein are good and bad, are confused meetings and unlawful; which none can say but Anabaptists. But if you mean meetings of these of your own Congregation and strangers of approved piety, these are not confused meetings, but you beg what is in question, and utterly abolish all Communion of Churches. They add, the Church shall endanger the propbaning of the Seals, and want a special means whereby their grace and piety shall be discerned, Apology. if without respect of their Church estate, men be admitted to the seals; for their own testimony is not enough: also how can they be of approved piety, who against light refuse to profess subjection to the Gospel, by an orderly joining themselves with some approved Church when they have opportunity? seeing Church-fellowship is an action of piety required in the second Commandment, and this mean of trial hath been so blessed that many approved men have been after trial found light to others, and to their own consciences. Answ. Means of discovering sincerity or hypocrisy would be warranted by God's word, and means of eschewing the profaning of the Seals also. Simon Magus was not so tried, yea when Peter found him in the gall of bitterness, we finde not that he cast him out of the visible Church in respect his sin was not that publicly scandalous, as to offend the whole Church. 2. We grant that strangers are not rashly to be admitted to the Seals, but you prove them not to be of approved piety, because they will not swear your Church-oath, and your discipline, as the only true way, and in so doing, you say they refuse Church-fellowship commanded in the second Commandment; but this is to be proved, and not to be nakedly averred by you; they believe, and can give evidences of their belief, & so should by the word of God be admitted to the Seals. Act. 10. 47. Act. 8. 37. Act. 16. 14, 15. ver. 31, 32, 33. 1 Cor. 11. 38. you deny them the Seals, as i● they were dogs and unworthy prophaners of the Seals only, because they cannot swear to your Church-government, which you cannot prove from the word of God. 3. You deny them to be of approved piety who will not join to an approved Church, you mean your own only. But you add if they have opportunity, but what if they want opportunity, than the strong hand of God deharreth them, & their seed from the Seals of Grace; now if any be to traffic by Seas, and to travel to far Countries in a lawful calling, he is legally unclean and incapable of the Seals to himself or his seed; for he cannot in Conscience and through necessity of his lawful calling swear your Church-oath, for he must swear to observe the manners of his fellow-members, to edify them by exhortation, consolation, rebuking, to join himself in an eternal Covenant to that visible Church, yea never to remove thence, except the Congregation consent: so your oath obligeth him to all these, now this is impossible because of his lawful calling, and because he cannot be a Church-member for ever: while he traffiqueth in his lawful calling, the comfort of the Lords supper is denied to him, and Baptism to all his seed, and that by a strong hand of providence without any fault in him: show us a warrant from the Law and the Testimony, where any are to be debarred from the Seals of the Covenant, and that ordinarily, (where sickness and some other Physical impediments doth not occur) where there is no moral unworthiness or guiltiness in the persons debarred: Will you debar all from Church-comforts, the presence of Christ in his Church, the comfort of his walking, beside the Candlesticks, and his influence in the word Preached, the power of the keys, the rebukes of the Saints, their exhortation and private comforting of sinners, the comforts of the Ordinances of Baptism, and the supper of the Lord, because a strong hand of providence in a lawful calling doth perpetually debar them? 4. You say your trying of Church-members is a mean blessed of God, to try many men's sincerity. I answer, Unlawful means, as the persecution of Tyrants, may have this success, what then? is it a lawful means? 2. I would God's name were here spared; it is not a mean blessed of God, it chaseth away many from the net of the Gospel, and the Pastoral care of the Shepherds, and is not a conquering way to gain Souls. John Alasto (say they) in the days of Edward the sixth, would Apol. 7. bapize none, but such as were members of that Church: and therefore p●●paned this question to the Fathers, (Are these infants that you 〈◊〉, the seed of this our Church, that they may lawfully be Baplized?) Answ. John Alasto had reason because of some present abuse, some indifferent Atheists, infidels in heart, refused to join to either Churches, either Protestant or Papists, and sought Baptismeto their children in either Churches, as they might have it, and therefore was that question proponed to the Fathers, but it proveth not your point. Alasto excluded the Children of Atheists, who would join to no Church, as his words cited bear. Ergo approved Christians and their seed are to be excluded from the Seals of the Covenant. How weak is your reasoning? If the Rechabites (say they) the Posterity of Jethro, shall live in the ●idst of the Commonwealth of Israel, & some of them prove true beleeters, as Jonadab the son of Rechab. yet if they shall refuse to take bold of the Covenant of Israel, & to become Proselytes, it is no sin for Israel to withhold the Passeover from them, & circumcision from their Children? Answ. You might have proved your point a nearer way, many legally unclean, and yet sound believers, because of leprosy, for no sin were debarred from the Seals amongst the Jews: but have you any law to debar any from the Seals of the Covenant of grace under the New Testament, and that ordinarily for no sin? 2. a Calvin comment. in Jer. 35. 1, 2, 3 4. Calvin thinketh their Vow not lawful. b Bucan. l●●. come. dis. 45. ●. 13. Bucanus, c Polyander in synop. pu●io. Theol. profess. Leyd. dis. 38 thes. 3. Polyander, and d Willet synop. Papis●ni. 19 gener. controv. 8. Willet think it the lawful Vow of the Nazarites, commanded Numb. 6. What then? If by God's Law of the Nazarites, they abstained from wine, and the Passeover? God is above his own Law, Ergo, you may debar men from the Seals under the New Testament for no sin; it doth not follow. 3. How prove ye, they abstained from the Passeover? being so divine a Law, might not their Vow suffer an exception for a greater Law in eating the Passeover? I think it might, for in case of necessity they came and dwelled at Jerusalem, for fear of the Army of the Chaldeans, Jer. 35. 11. and yet their vow was to dwell in Tents. From these ariseth, Quest. I. If Pastors may perform Ministerial Acts in any other Congregation than their own. This is answered unto, by a Manuscript, If you take a Ministerial act improperly, when a Minister doth exercise his gift of praying and preaching, being required so to do, so he may exercise some Ministerial acts, but this he doth not by virtue of any calling, but only by his gifts and occasionally: but if you mean by a Ministerial act, an act of authority and power in dispensing of God's Ordinances, as a Minister doth perform to the Church whereunto he is called to be a Minister, than we deny that he can so perform any Ministerial act, to any other Church, than his own. Hence though he may preach to another congregation, yet may he not administer the Sacraments to an other then to his own. Answ. First, We hold that by a calling or ordination he is made a Pastor, by election he is restricted to be Ordinarily the Pastor of his flock. Secondly, A Pastor is a Pastor of the Catholic Church, but he is not a Catholic Pastor of the Catholic Church, as were the Apostles. Thirdly, The Reformed Churches may send Pastors to the Acosta d● saint. 〈◊〉, l. 5. c. 17. Indians, for that which Acosta saith of Jesuits, we may with better reason say it of ourselves: That Pasiors are as Soldiers, and some soldiers are to keep order, and remain in a certain place, others run up and done ne in all places; So some are affixed to a Congregation, to feed them, others may be sent to those people, who have not heard of the Gospel. Which sending is ordinary and lawful, in respect of Pastors sending, and the Pastors who are sent, because in Pastors, even after the Apostles be dead, there remaineth a general Pastoral care for all the Churches of Christ. Thus sending is not ordinary, but extraordinary, in respect of those to whom the Pastors are sent, yet is it a Pastoral sending. This opinion of our Prethrens, is against the care of Christ, who hath left no Pastoral care on earth by this way, now since the Apostles died, to spread the Gospel to those Nations who have not heard of the name of Christ; but a Pastoral care for the Churches, is not proper to Apostles only, but only such a Pastoral care by special direction from Christ immediately to Preach to all. 2. Backed with the gift of tongues and of miracles; and this essentially differenceth the Apostle from the ordinary Pastor; but the former Pastoral care to Preach the Gospel to all Nations, and to convert, is common both to the Apostle and Pastor. 2. Our Brethren distinguish betwixt office and the calling, and they say that the office extendeth no further than the call, and by 〈◊〉 he is only a Pastor of this determinate flock. But if he be a Pastor essentially in relation to none, but to his own Congregation from which he hath all his calling, as is supposed, by that same reason a Christian, is a Baptised Christian to none but in relation to that particular Church in whose society he is admitted, and he doth partake of Christ's body and blood in the Lord's Supper in relation to no visible professors on earth, but only to the Parish Church whereof he is a Member, 1 Cor. 10. 17. for they expone that only of a Parishional Communion within one single independent Congregation. And he must be a Heathen, or as a Pagan in all Congregations on earth, but in his own, yea and he is a visible professor of the Covenant of grace, which is one in substance, (as they say) with the Church-Covenant, and hath claim to Christ and all his Ordinances in no Congregation save in his own. I prove the consequence, for by Baptism the Baptised person is incorporated in Christ's visible Church. 1 Cor. 12. 13. If this be true when one removeth from one Congregation to another, he must be rebaptized and incorporated a visible member of a body visible with them. And I see not how one can be inchurched to another Congregation, and made one body therewith, while he eat of one bread with them, as they expone, 1 Cor. 10. 17. if he be not also a member of all visible Churches on earth. 3. If a Pastor can exercise no Pastoral acts toward any Congregation, save toward his own, than a Pastor as a Pastor cannot pray for the whole visible Churches of God: but the latter is absurd: Ergo, so is the former. I prove the major, The praying for the whole visible Churches is a Pastoral Act, due to a Pastor as a Pastor. 1. Because every visible Church is obliged as it is a Church to pray for all the visible Churches on earth: for as a Christian is obliged to pray for all Churches visible; so far more is a Church: now a visible Church doth not pray but by the Pastor, who is the mouth of the People to God; and that this is a Pastoral duty due to a Pastor, I think is said Isa. 62. 6. I have set watchmen on thy Tower, O Jerusalem, which shall never hold their peace day nor night. Ye that make mention of the Lord, keep no silence till he establish, and t●ll ●● make Jerusalem the praise of the whole earth. Also Pastors as Pastors are to pray for the King, though the King be no member of that Congregation, whereof they be Pastors. 1 Tim. 2. 1, 2. every Pastor as a Pastor is to Preach against the sins of the Land, else how can the People mourn for these sins? Ergo, the Pastor doth exercise Pastoral acts upon all the visible Churches on earth, upon the King, and upon the whole Land, to which he is not a Pastor by special election. 4. If a Pastor be obliged to Preach in season and out of season, and that as a Pastor, and because he is a Pastor. 2 Tim. 4. 2. Ergo he is to Preach as a Pastor in any Congregation where he shall be desired. They answer, He may Preach the word in another Congregation, not by virtue of a calling or office, but by virtue of his gifts. I answer, First, if he Preach by virtue of a gift only, he Preacheth in that case, not as sent of God, and so int●udeth himself, and runneth unsent, and a mere gift to be a King or a Magistrate, maketh not a Magistrate, as a Master Robinson just if. of separ. pag. 290. Master Robinson granteth. Ergo one cannot warrantably exercise a Pastoral act by virtue of a mere gift. 2. He may in another Congregation preach with Pastoral authority, and use the keys by binding and losing sins, according as hearers do repent and harden their nockes against the Gospel. Ergo, he may preach as a Pastor to another Congregation. 3. There shall be no Communion betwixt Sister Churches in Pastoral acts as Pastoral, which is absurd, the Communion shall only be of Pastoral acts as Christian acts, but in no sort betwixt them as Pastoral acts. 5. The Scriptures for this opinion are weak, Ergo the opinion itself is weak, I prove the antecedent. Act. 20. 28. feed the flock, over which the holy Ghost hath made you overseers. etc. there is no ground to feed even by Preaching, or by virtue of a gift, these flocks over which the holy Ghost hath not set you: Obey them that are over you in the Lord, Heb. 13. 17. & c. there is no warrant to submit to other Pastors that are not over you in the Lord, though they command by virtue of a gift, not by virtue of an office or calling: these be loose consequences. 6. All reciprocation of mutual duties amongst sister Churches, whereby they exhort, rebuke, comfort one another, must be unlawful, for these be Church acts, and this Author saith, The office extendeth no further than the calling, but there is no calling of Church-membership betwixt sister-Churches, and therefore all these duties are not acts of the Communion of Churches, as they are such Churches or incorporations in a Church-state, but only duties of Churches as they are Saints, but communion of Churches as Churches in the act of Church-dispensing of the Word and Seales reciprocally one to another, is not in the Word of God, as this opinion will infer, which is a weighty absurd. 7. The Authors of this opinion hold, That if the Congregation, for no fault, reject the Pastor, whom they once called and elected Answer to quest 25 of old England. to ●e their Pastor, though in so doing they sin, and reject God in rejecting him, yet they take nomen & esse, the name and nature of a pastor from him, yet (say they) he still remaineth a Minister of Christ, till he accept a call from another Congregation. Hence 1. such a one is a Pastor, and yet the people have taken If the Congregation take name & nature from any called Pastor, and that without any all deserving in him, their censure worketh clavae er●ante, et ex opere operato; the Lord must make valid in heaven, an unjust censure inflicted by his Church on Earth. name and nature of a Pastor from him, as they gave him name and nature: Ergo, he is either a Pastor without a calling, which is absurd, or he remaineth a person in relation to another flock, who never choosed him, nor gave him any calling. 2. To add by the way, if he be capable of a calling to another Church, Ergo, for the time he is no Minister, else they must say, he may be a Minister capable of two callings, to two sundry Ministeries, which yet maketh him a Pastor not in relation to one single congregation only. It is true, they object that the Apostles, Matth. 18. were commanded to preach to all Nations, but Pastors are not so now, but are commanded to feed the flock over which God hath appointed them, Act. 20. 28. but it is as true the Apostles were commanded to preach to all Nations, in opposition to the charge that the Prophets of old were to speak to the people of Israel only, and the Apostles Matth. 10. forbidden to preach to the Samaritans and Gentiles; and it is as true that God's Spirit limited the Apostles to Preach to Macedonia, not to Bythinia; now because this particular direction for places is wanting in the Church, it is certain that a man is yet a Pastor in office in relation to as many as God's hand of providence shall send him unto, though he be chosen by a people to feed ordinarily one determinate flock, and though he be not an extraordinary and immediately inspired planter of Churches, or the first planter, as were the Apostles, yet is he a Pastor in relation to all. And if this be not said, 1. It were simply unlawful for Pastors now to plant Churches, and spread the Gospel to those nations, who have not heard it, because all Pastors now are ordinary, and none are immediately inspired Apostles: but it is certain what the Apostles did, by an extraordinary gift, as such immediately called pastors, it is unlawful for ordinary Pastors to attempt to do, as to attempt to speak with tongues, and to plant Churches by speaking with tongues and confirming it with miracles, is unlawful. Papists, as Bellarmine, Suarez, Acosta, ascribe this to the Pope and his Apostles. Our Divines answer that the Apostles that way have no successors; But what the Apostles did by an ordinary pastoral gift, as to preach the word, administrate the Sacraments, to erect and plant Churches by ordinary gifts, where the Pastors can speak to the Churches by an ordinary gift in their own language, they are obliged both within and without the Congregation, to preach as Pastors, because where God giveth gifts pastoral to pastors, he commandeth them to exercise these gifts, else they dig their Lord's talon in the earth: but God giveth to Pastors pastoral gifts to preach to others than their own Congregation, and to administrate the seals to them also, and to plant Churches. Ergo, it is presumed that the Church doth give authority and an external ministerial calling to the exercise of these gifts. 2. It is an unwarrantable point of Divinity that the Apostles and the Pastors succeeding to them do differ essentially in this, that Apostles might preach as Pastors to more Congregations than one, and might plant Churches, but pastors succeeding to them may not as Pastors preach to more Congregations than their own, and may not plan● Churches, for then planting of Churches now were utterly unlawful, because it is certain there be no Apostles on earth, and it is not lawful for a Pastor, yea nor it is lawful for any other gifted person to do that which is essential to an Apostle and agreeth to an Apostle as to an Apostle. It is then unlawful for our brethren, seeing they be not Apostles, to plant Churches in India. Nor is that comparison to be regarded much; A Magistrate or an Alderman of a City may not lawfully exercise his office of Magistracy in another City whereof he is not a Mayor, and therefore a Pastor cannot preach, ex officio, as a Pastor in another Congregation, whereof he is not a Pastor, nor can he exercise discipline in another Congregation than his own, seeing another Congregation hath not by voluntary agreement, oath or paction submitted themselves to his ministry, nor chosen him for their Pastor. For I answer, the comparison halteth and doth not prove the point, for by one and the same act the city hath chosen such a man both for to be a Magistrate, and to be their Magistrate, and have given him thereby authority over themselves only, so he cannot exercise the office of a Magistrate over another City who hath not chosen him to be their Mayor or ruler. But the flock doth not both call such a man, in one and the same act to be a pastor, and to be their pastor, but he is made by the laying on of the hands of the Elders, a Pastor, and a Pastor in relation to all to whom God in his providence shall send him to speak, the Congregation by election doth give him no authority pastoral, but only appropriate his pastoral authority to themselves in particular; and when they refuse him again and cast him off, they take not pastoral authority from him, for they cannot take away that which they cannot give; he remaineth a Pastor though they cast him off, as a College of Physicians do promote a man to be a Doctor of Physic to cure diseases, a town calleth him to be their Physician, he may yet exercise acts of his calling, and ex officio, as a Doctor, upon other cities and inhabitants of the country; and when the city who choosed him for their physician doth cast him off, they take not from him the office of doctorship which the College of Physicians conferred upon him, for they cannot take from him that which they cannot give to him. Yea if any of another flock shall come and hear the word, the Pastor offereth all in one pastoral sacrifice to God in prayer, though there be many of another Congregation in the Church hearing; yea strangers believers communicate with him at the same Table, yet is he not their Pastor. If a Pastor of a Congregation die or be sick, shall the children of believers, yea shall converted Pagans being desirous to be baptised be defrauded of the comfort of Baptism, and of the Lords Supper, for no fault in them, but only because their Pastor is dead, may not the Congregation by their desires and requests appropriate the office of Pastors of another Congregation in some particular acts to their necessity? yea is not their receiving of his ministry in that act (when their Pastor is dead) a calling warranting him to officiate, high & nunc? even as the desires and choice of his own flock electing him to be their constant Pastor, gave him a calling to be their Pastor constantly, and in all the ordinary acts of his calling? yea and it is sure as the holy Ghost set him over his own floeke in ordinary, because they choosed him to be their Pastor, so that same holy Ghost set him over this other Congregation, in this act, to preach and administrate the sacraments to them, in this exigence of the death of their Pastor; for God who ruleth officers and disposeth of them in his house, disposeth of particular Acts of his own officers, and he is sent as a pastor from God to speak to the stanger hic & nunc, and to work his heart to the love of Christ, and that as a Pastor no less then to his own flock, except we destroy communion of gifts, and of Pastoral gifts, Paul by the holy Ghost was made the Apostle of the Gentiles, Peter of the Jews, Gal. 2. 8. yet Peter as an Apostle preached to, and baptised the uncircumcised Gentiles, Act. 10. 11. and Paul exercised his office of an Apostle upon the Jews also, both by preaching and baptising, as the history of the Acts, chap. 16. chap. 17. and other places may clear, Rom. 1. so that the contrary doctrine is a new conceit, not of God, and against the pastoral care of bringing in souls to Christ. Quest. II. Whether or no children be received into the visible Church by Baptism. In this Chapter the Author will not have persons of approved piety and baptised to be within the visible Church, and a Apology for the Churches of New England against the exceptions of Ric: Bernard. cap. 8. the Author of the Apology saith, We do not believe that children are received within the visible Church by baptism, for if they be not in Christ's Church, before they be baptised, what hath a Minister to do to baptise them who are not of the Church? and if they be within the Church before baptism, how shall they be received in the Church by baptism? if you say, they may be received, that is, declared by baptism to have been received into the Church by the Covenant of their fathers: We demand into which Church? not into our own Church, for their parents were never members of a Church, and we cannot put the seal of God upon a falsehood? not into the Church from whence their fathers came, for we know not whether their fathers were casten out of the Church, or not. Some considerations are here to be set down. 1. Baptism is not that whereby we are entered into Christ's mystical and invisible body as such, for it is presupposed we be members of Christ's body, and our sins pardoned already, before baptism come to be a seal of sins pardoned, but baptism is a seal of our entry in Christ's visible body, as swearing to the Colours is that which entereth a Soldier to be a member of such an Army, whereas before his oath, he was only a heart friend to the army and cause. 2. Baptism as it is such is a seal, and a seal as a seal addeth no new lands or goods to the man to whom the Charter and seal is given, but only doth legally confirm him in the right of such lands given to the man by the Prince or State, yet this hindereth not but baptism is a real, legal seal, legally confirming the man in his actual and visible profession of Christ, remission of sins, regeneration, so as though before baptism he was a member of Christ's body, yet quoad nos, he is not a member of Christ's body visible, until he be made such by baptism. 3. This question toucheth the controversy anent the efficiency, working and operation of the Sacraments, of which I give a taste shortly. Sacraments are considered as Sacraments, in abstracto, in genere sign●rum; the reprobate do receive holy Seals and Sacraments, else they could not be said to profane the holy things of God, and so they may be Sacraments and work no grace either by themselves or from God, all operation from, or about the Sacrament than must be accidental to a Sacrament. 2. Sacraments are considered in concreto, according to all which they include in their use, to wit, as they consist of the sign, the thing signified, the institution of God, and the promise of grace, and in this meaning a Altisiodorens. lib. 4. sim. tract. 3. in Princip. Altisiodorensis (as I conceive) maketh the Sacraments not efficient causes of grace, yet material causes containing grace, uti vas medicinam, so the Scripture saith, Baptism saveth, as the Physician's glass cureth the disease, and b Gul. Paris. racked. de sacram. in Gen. cap. 1. Sacramenta habent vim impe●●a●or●ā gratiae, ratione or ationum minist●● et Ecclesiae. Guliel. Parisiens. said not ill, that the Sacraments have a power to obtain grace by faith and prayer, that is, being used in faith and sincere calling upon God, they obtain grace; so to speak accurately this is all about the Sacrament, rather than from the Sacrament: to which sense c Du●and. 4. d. 1. art. 2. c 7. Durandus, d Occam. in 4. quaest. 1. Occam e Gab. Biel. 4 d. 1 ar. 2 c. 7. Gabriel Biel f Aliacensis in 4. q. 1. art. 1. con●l. 3. Aliacensis do deny the Sacraments to be Physical instruments producing grace in a Physical way, (though Papists cry out against our Divines for teaching so) only they say, God at the presence of the Sacrament produceth grace of his mere free will, ad praesentiam Sacramenti operatur deus gratiam ex solâ liberâ suâ voluntate. And for this cause g Greg. de Valent. de offic. Sacr. c. 1. 2. Gregorius de Valentia saith these Schoolmen nihil amplius tribuere Sacramentis, quam haeretici tribuunt, give no more to the Sacraments than heretics give; yet h Vasquez in 3. Thom. tom. 2. dis. 132. c. 4. Vasquez, and a Jesult professor at Rome i Joan de Lugo de Sacram. dis. 4 sect. 4. & sect. 5. Joan. de Lugo teach that the Sacraments are moral causes of grace, but not physical. It is gross that k Henricus quodli. 4. q. 37. Henricus saith, that God createth grace, per tactum Sacramentorum, by the touch of the Sacraments, as Christ cured the Leper by the touch of his hand: for Sacraments are not miracles, as Papists say, Physic worketh upon a man's body when he sleepeth, so do Sacraments justify and work grace, ex opere operate, though the faith of the Sacrament-Receiver do work nothing at all. 4. Sacraments are considered. 1. As holy signs. 2. As Religious seals. 3. As instruments by which faith worketh. 4. As means used by, us out of conscience of obedience to Christ's commandment who hath willed us to use them. Sacraments as signs are objective and moral causes, exciting the mind as the word doth in a moral way, they represent Christ and him crucified, and this Sacraments have common with the word. The Sacrament is a visible word teaching us. 2. Sacraments have the consideration of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 & non 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 tantum, they be seals, and not teaching and representing signs only: this way also they have no real or physical action in them or from them; for a seal of a Prince and State, as it is such, conferreth not an acre or rig of land, but it is a legal Declaration that those lands written in the body of the Charter, do duly belong to the Person to whom the Charter is given. But a Romonst. in Apol ca 23. in caena non obsipnatur pe●catorum re●nissi●, sed tantum ●●nsequente● una cum Christ● morte, cujus effectus illa obsignatio est, illam ●lim obsignatam fuisse comme moratur ac praedicatur. Arminians do here err, as b Episcop. dis. 29. thes. 8. Episcopius, and also, c Socinus de officio ●omini Christ's cap 4. Socinus, and d Smalcius' disp. 9 contra ●rautzium pag. 199. fabulae sunt aliquam esse internam eff●caciam in baptism. Smalcius, who teach that the Sacraments be nothing but external rites and declarative signs, scadowing out Christ, and the benefits of his death to us, because they find a moral objective working in the Word of God, but a substantial and Physical working betwixt us and Christ's body (they say) is ridiculous, but they would remember that this is an insufficient enumeration, the seal of a King's Charter hath besides a moral action on the mind, by bringing to the mind such lands given to such a man, and so the seals, worketh upon the witnesses, or any who readeth the Charter as well as upon the owner of the Charter: I say beside this the seal hath some real action, I grant not in it, but about it, and beside it; for it sealeth that such lands are really and in effect given by the Prince and State, the action is about the seal, not in or from the seal: When a General of an Army delivereth the keys of a Castle to a Keeper thereof, he saith [I deliver the house to you] when he delivereth the Keys only Physically, and not the stones, walls or timber of the house, by a Physical action or Physical touch, contactu Physico, yet in delivering the keys, he doth really deliver to him the Castle, but in a legal and moral way. Arminians and Socinians may see here that there is neither an action by way of naked representation and teaching, for the Sacrament is a teaching sign to the beholders who receive it not, nor is it a Physical action, as if Christ's Physical body in a Physical way were given; yet it is an action real, and moral: so the Sacraments are signs exhibitive and not naked signs. Our brethren do side with Arminians and Socinians, who so often teach that Sacraments make nothing to be what they were not, but only declare things to be what they are. It is true, the formal effect of a Sacrament is to seal and confirm; to seal and confirm is but a legal strengthening of a right, and not the adding of any new thing. Yet in this the Sacrament differeth from a seal. 1. That to a civil seal there is not required the believing and faith of the owner of the Charter, to make the seal effectual; for whether the Lord of the lands believe that his seal doth confirm him in the lands, or not, the seal of itself by the Law of the Prince & State maketh good his right to the lands: but Sacraments do not work ex opere operato, as civil seals do work, even as Physic worketh upon the body, without the faith of the mind, though the man be sleeping. Hence the third consideration of a Sacrament as an instrument, Faith, in and through the Sacrament being wakened and stirred up layeth hold upon Christ his death and benefits, and for this cause there is a real exhibition of the thing signified, and the Sacrament is an exhibitive seal. 4. The Sacrament in the use is considered as we use it in obedience to God, who saith in the Lord's Supper, Do this in remembrance of me, and in this it differeth from a civil seal also. The Prince doth not confer a seal to confirm a man in his land upon condition, that he will make use of it, otherways it shall be to him as no seal. But God hath given the scale of grace upon condition that we make use thereof in Faith, else the Sacrament is blank and null. Therefore if you believe, and not otherways, the Sacrament of the Supper sealeth and confirmeth you in this, that Christ is given already, and is in the present given to be nourishment to your soul to life eternal; and so oft as you eat, the certioration and assurance groweth, and the faith is increased, and a further degree of a communion with Christ confirmed; but it is not so in civil seals, though ye repeat and reiterate the same seal of lands, ten thousand times, it never addeth one acre more to the in heritance, because the repetition of a civil seal is not commanded under the promise of addition of new lands, nor is it commanded, as obedience to the owner of the Charter, that he should make use of the seal; but from the using in faith, the Sacrament, we receive increase of Grace, and a Sacramental Grace. Hence Baptism is a seal of our incorporation in Christ's visible Church, 1 Cor. 12. 13. For by one spirit we be all baptised into one body, whether we be Jew or Gentile, or whether we be bound or free, Act. 2. 41. Then they that received the word were baptised, and the same day there were added unto them three thousand souls, so Matth. 28. 19 the taught Disciples are to be baptised in his name, Act. 8. 38. Philip was this way received in the Christian Church, and Cornelius, Act. 10. 47. and Lydia, Act. 16. 15. and the Jailor, vers. 23. 2. That which distinguisheth by a visible note the Church as visible from the invisible Church, and from other visible societies, and sealeth our visible union with Christ's body, that is, the seal of our entry in the visible Church, but baptism is such, Ergo. 3. What circumcision was to the Church of the Jews, that baptism is to the Christian Church, because, in re significatâ, in the thing signified and inward substance of the Sacrament, they were both one, Col. 2. 11. 12. Phil. 3. 3. But circumcision was a seal of the Jewish entry in the visible Church, Gen. 17. 13. It being the Covenant of God in the flesh, & the uncircumcised being commanded to be cut off from God's people, v. 14. 4. This is according to the Scriptures and the doctrine of the fathers, Augustine, Cyrill, Basilius, Tertullian, Hieronymus, Theophylact, Theodoret, Ambrose, Cyprian who constantly so teach; so do our Divines a Calvin insti ut. lib. 4 cap. 15 Sect. 13. Calvin, b Beza quaest. & resp quaest. 100 Christianos tu●n a reliquis hominibus sejungtt, tum in●e● se quasi unum sub codem cap●●e corpus consociat. Beza, c Pareus. Vrsin. Catech. quae. 69. Art. 2. Symbolum ingressus & receptionis in Ecclesiam. Bu●nus, d P●s●ator, Loc. 25. Th●s. 21. Pareus, e Wallaeus in syn●ps. purior. Theol. dis. 44. Thes. 34. Piscator, f T●len. Syntag. dis. 59 Thes. 39 Anton. Wallaeus, g System. Theol. loc. 3 ca 8 Symbolum, quo recipimur in cae●um filiorum Dei. Tilenus, h Answer to 32 qwest. of Old England. Kickermanus. So Zanchius, Polanus, Sihrandus, Rivetus, Fennerus, Whittakerus, Raynoldus, Willetus, and the professors of Leyden 〈◊〉. Our Brethren say, it is the opinion of the i Answer to 32 qwest. of Old England. Anabaptists, that the Church is made by baptism, and Papists have the same conceit, and therefore place their Font at the Church door to signify men's entry into the Church by baptism; but we believe not that baptism doth make men members of the Church, nor to be administrated to them who are without the Church, as the way to bring them in, but to them that are within the Church, as a seal to confirm the Covenant of Grace to them. Answ. 1. Anabaptists deny that any aught to be baptised while thy come to age, and while they believe and be regenerated: and they say not far from yourselves in this, who teach it to be absurd, to put a blank seal upon a falsehood, and so you presuppone all to be regenerated, and truly within the Covenant before they can be sealed to be within the Covenant by baptism; and yet you do not think all Infants of believing parents to be regenerated and truly within the Covenant, then is the seal blank. Also you say, baptism is not to be administrated to those who are without, but only to those who are within the Church, you mean not within the Church by profession, for Infants have no profession, and you say the Sacrament cannot be put on a blank or a falsehood, Ergo, you think all that are baptised aught to be within the Church really, and not in profession only; Ergo they must all come to age and believe before they can be baptised. 2. We say not that baptism maketh a Church mystical, and the true and lively body and Spouse of Christ, but that it is a seal confirming us of our entry in the visible Church. 3. The placing of the Font at the Church door as a mystical sign of our entry in the Church is an Antichristian ceremony of men's devising, which we disclaim. 4. If Infants baptised must be within the Church, before they can be baptised, how deny you to receive them to the Lords Supper when they come to age, while they be again, by your Church-oath, received within the Church? then are they both within the Church, because they are baptised, and without the Church, because they are not received in by your Church-oath again. 5. If baptism be a seal of grace to confirm the Covenant of grace to those who are within the Church, that is, only a single Congregation, (for you deny that there be any visible Churches in the New Testament save these only) then are persons baptised persons, and confirmed in the Covenant of grace only within a single Congregation. I would know if baptism should not then be repeated and reiterated in every one's person, as they come to a new Congregation; for they are confirmed in the Covenant of grace, by baptism only in one single Congregation, as you teach. Their second and third reason is, a Quest. 4. ibid. Baptism and all ordinances are privileges given to the Church, so it maketh not the Church, but the Church is before baptism and all ordinances; the use also of baptism is to be a seal of the Covenant, now a seal is not to make a thing which was not, but to confirm a thing which was. Answ. 1. The Church is indeed the Church mystical and the invisible body of Christ before baptism, but this proveth not but baptism is a seal of our entry in the visible Church, for if this be a good argument, your Church-covenant, which to you is an ordinance of God, falleth to the grrund; for persons are the true Churches of Christ before all the ordinances of Christ; Ergo, by your Church-covenant men do not become Christ's visible Church. 2. The argument hath no feet, for the ordinance of preaching the Word is a privilege of the Church and ordinance of God, yet is not the Church before the preaching of the Word; for birth is not before the seed, but the seed before the birth; the preaching of the Word is the seed of the Church, 1 Pet. 1. 23. and a mean of gathering the Church, Rom. 10. 14. and it is also a privilege of the Church, for he dealeth not so with every nation to send his Gospel to them, Psal. 147. 19, 20. 3. When you say that a Seal doth not make a thing that was not, but confirm a thing that was; while you would seem to refute Papists, who vainly teach that Sacraments do confer grace ex opere op●rato, by the deed done; yet do you make the Sacrament but a naked sign, and take part with Arminians and Socinians, whose very arguments in express words you use; for a Socinus, Per baptismum non confirmatur ●ides (uti dicunt Evangelia) cum per baptismum non quidem obsignetur, sed tantum adu●nbre●ur peccato●um ●emissio● ad obsignationem e●●n requi●●tur rei pr●batis & d●cumentum aliqu●d, ●ujusm● li nihil praestat ceremonia, & r●●us iste. quantumvis sacer, quod ad pe●●ato●um 〈◊〉 a●●tnet, sed tantum ill●m ve●●is i●n exp sita ablutione sua adu●nbrat & quodam●●d● del●●a●. Socinius goeth before you in this argument, and so doth b Smalcius dis. 9 cont. Frantz 〈◊〉. 2●9. Smalcius follow him. 〈◊〉 and sealing there is required the trying of the thing, and some ●●●hing or document; but that ceremony (a baptisime) and that rite, though it be ●●ly, doth nothing to the remission of sins, but it doth only shadow out, and as it 〈◊〉 deline●ue and point forth remission of sins by the washing of water ●xp●ned in the Word of God. You say, Sacraments 〈◊〉 make a thing that was not, but confirm a thing that was before; you can have no other meaning then to deny all cansalitie and all real exhibition of grace in the Sacraments: for if a Sacrament make not a thing that was not before, or if God give n●t, and really produce, confer and exhibit grace, and a stronger measure of faith, and assurance of remission of sins, at the due and right use of the Sacrament, the Sacrament is a naked sign, and not an exhibitive Seal. But if Christ give and in the present exhibit as surely remission of sins, as the infant is washen with water, as our Divines, and the c Catech●s. Palat. Palatinate Catechise teacheth, yea and d Confess●an. 33, 34. the confession thereof, and e Synod Derd●a●●●. 5. sect. 17. Deus usu Sacra●●nti poll●●●tis seu p●omiss●s ●pus gra●● preducit ad sinem et persic●. the Synod of Dort teacheth, then by the Sacrament of Baptism, a thing is made that which it was not. It is true a civil seal, as I said before, addeth no new lands to the owner of the Charter, but if Christ by his Seals rightly and in faith used, do not only confirm grace and pardon, but also really exhibit and give grace and pardon in a further degree, and a new measure of assurance to the conscience which there was not before, you go not a streas breadth from Arminians and Socinians, especially seeing f Episcopius dis. 21. T●es. 1, 2. Episcopius, g ●en icus Welsingius de ●ffi●. ●om. Ch●ist pag. 12. Remessi● pe●●a●●wn n●n ●●signa●●, sed significatu●. Henricus Welsingius saith that remission of fins is not sealed by baptism, but signified only, and h Remenst. Apol. ca 23. pag 249 Tantu● significat professionem 〈◊〉 & ejusdem cul●us quo Christo cum d●●●●, adhaerent & solemn●ter testantur. the Remonstrants in their Apology while they expone our Communion with Christ in the Lord's Supper, and will reject a Physical union of our souls with the Physical substance of Christ's body, which we also reject, they say that communion signifieth only a profession of one and the same worship, whereby Christians solemnly testify that they adhere to Christ as to ●● partaker of the Table of devils and of devils themselves, 1 Cor. 10. 18 20. is a testimony of a communion with the Devils: but the Word of God saith more, Gal. 3. 17. As many of you as are baptised, have put on Christ, So Rom. 6. 3. Therefore we are buried with ●im by baptism unto his death, that like as Christ was raised up from the dead, by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life, Ephes. 5. 26. That he might sanctify and cleanse his Church with the washing of water by the word, T it. 3. 5. and 1 Pet. 3. 21. The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us, etc. all this is more than a naked signification, otherwise Manna saved Israel, and the water of the rock did wash them from their sins, and the sacrifice of bulls and goats did cleanse from sin, and open heaven to sinners. Therefore by baptism and the Lords Supper something is made what it was not before, as by partaking of the Table of Devils, the partaker is really made a partaker with the devil, and an Idolater; and his Idolatry that he committed before was not only confirmed and signified to be what it was before. And in this civil Seals and Sacraments differ, as I observed before. Argu. 4. God (say they) had a Church when there was neither baptism nor circumcision, yea baptism hath been administrated and Answ to the 4. q Arg. 3 4. no Church-members made thereby, and men have been made members of Christ and not then baptised; and John and Christ's Disciples baptised, Matth. 3. 6. John 4. 1. but neither Christ nor John made new Churches, they all living and dying members of the Jewish Church of which they were before, and if any of them after became members of Christian Churches, they were not then baptised when they were so admitted, having been baptised before. Answ. We teach not that baptism constituteth the Church simply, as the Church, but that it is a seal of a visible membership, and all baptised by John Baptist, and the Disciples of Christ, were thereby entered in a visible profession that they believed in Christ already come, and so were made members and citizens by that public symbol and seal, that they were members of the Christian Church, though as yet it received not that name of a Christian Church, and they were members both of the Jewish and Christian Church: For these are not contrary incorporations, and they needed not to be baptised again when they were added to the Christian Church, for they were never added to the visible Christian Church; nor needed they to be added, seeing they were members of that Church before. Argu. 5. These inconveniences (say they) should follow. 1. Baptism should be administrate by such as are not ministers at all; for who should baptise them who are converted without the Church? extraordinary officers are ceased and ordinary are limited only to their own f●●ks: also the Church is before the ministers, for the Church hath power to choose ministers; now if baptism make the Church, then must ●●n be baptised before there be ministers to baptise them. Answ. You see to what absurdities your own grounds drive you, for if none can baptise but these of a fixed Congregation, and if they can baptise none but their own Congregation, none as a sent Pastor whose feet is pleasant on the mountains, can preach and beget faith in a company of unbelievers, not in a Church-state, which is a limiting of the wise God, who by Pastors as Pastors can beget faith in men without a parishional Church, which is contrary to God's Word, Rom. 10. 14. 2. It is false that the Church ministerial, which only can baptise, is before the officers, for they should then be before themselves, which is absurd, nor is there such necessity of baptism, as that those who are no ministers should baptise. 2. Inconvenient. It should follow that Papists should be members of the Church, for they have baptism so far right, as that it cannot be repeated. Answ. If your Church-covenant be that which essentially constituteth a Church-member, than Papists, Atheists, and Hypocrites may be Church-members also by this reason, because they may swear your Church-oath. Hypocrites doubtless do it. And this argument is as much for the Anabaptists as against us, for it should prove that none should be baptised but members of the true Church and sound believers: now by baptism none a●e made members of the true Church except where baptism is received by true faith, which is more, nor can be done by a Papist; nor is it inconvenient to say that Papists as baptised & under that reduplication are members of the visible Church, though as baptised thus and thus, they be not members of the true visible Church, professing the sound faith. Also (say they) baptism may remain where as Church-membership is dissolved, as in the case of excommunication, Matth. 18. 17. or of voluntary and unjust departure, 1 Job. 2. 19 Judas 19 Heb. 10. 25. in which case such Schismatics are no members of the visible Church, as a Am●s ●as. C●●se. l. 5. c. 12. 1. 4. Am●sius saith: and if the Church be dissolved, the Church membership ceaseth, for, Relata se mutuo ponunt & tollunt. Answ. This is against yourselves, and doth as well prove that baptism is not a seal of the covenant of grace, for an excommunicate person may remain externally without the covenant to the visible Church, when baptism remaineth a seal, and may be a seal of a grace or privilege, which is interrupted or removed in act, but remaineth in habit: as to be the eldest son of a King, may be a seal of the son's hei●eship, and yet he may for a fault be disherited and cast out of his place. The Church and Church-membership are Relata secundum es●, not secundum dici only, or relata 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉: but baptism and Church-membership are not so perfect relatives, but baptism doth remain and the Church-membership may be dissolved: as the Burgess ticket whereby a man hath right to all the city privileges may remain, when the man for some crime committed against the city hath lost all his city privileges and is not now a free citizen, in which case his Burgess ticket sealeth nothing to him: so baptism sealeth not actual membership in case of excommunication, yet remaineth baptism valid in the acts of sealing other things. As for schismatics who only for Schism are out of the Church, and do hold no erroneous point of doctrine, and are not yet convinced, they are yet members of the visible Church, as a Morton Apologia de no●is R●cl. ca 2. ●at. 1. pag 7. Morton saith from Gerson, as also b Doct. Glorianus lib. de schismat. pag. 181. Glorianus; but he who is casten out as a Schismatic, is in the same case with an excommunicate person. Lastly, baptism is not a privilege of a particular visible Church only; nor doth the place of 1 Cor. 12. vers. 13. mean of the visible parishional Church of Corinth, but of the whole visible Church of Jew and Gentile, bond and free, as the words do bear. Quest. III. In what cases it is lawful to separate from a Church. In this discourse three things must be discussed, 1. With what Church retaining the doctrine of fundamentals, we are to remain. 2. Whether our separation from Rome be not warrantable. 3. Whether we may lawfully separate from true Churches, for the sins of the Churches. 1 Cor. 3. 11. Another foundation can no man lay, then that which is laid, Jesus Christ. Hence Jesus Christ is the foundation of faith real or personal, and the knowledge of Christ is the dogmatic foundation of faith, Upon this foundation some build gold, that is, good doctriae: some hay and stubble, that is, as c Calvin come. ibid. Calvin faith, curious doctrine, d Pareus come. ibid. Pareus, vain and frivolous doctrine. We are to distinguish betwixt articles of faith, or res fidei, matters of faith, and fundamental points of faith. Matters of faith I reduce to three. 1. Fundamental points. 2. Supra-fundamentalia, superstructions ●●illed upon fundamentals. 3. Circa-fundamentalia, things about ma●ers of Faith; for praeter fundamentalia, things indifferent and besides the foundation in matters of Religion, and moral carriage, I acknowledge none; fundamentals are the vital and noble parts or the soul of Divinity. The ignorance of fundamentals condemneth, which is to be understood two ways. 1. The Ignorance of fundamentals, such as are supernatural fundamentals, condemneth all within the visible Church as a sin; but it doth not formally condemn those who are without the visible Church, Job. 15. 22. It only maketh those who are without the Church incurable, but doth not formally condemn them: as medicine not known, and so not refused, maketh sick men incurable, as a loss, but doth not kill them as a sin. 2. Superstructures, which by consequence, arise from fundamentals, are fundamentals by consequent and secondarily; as the second rank of stones that are immediately laid upon the foundation, are a foundation in respect of the higher parts of the wall, and therefore are materially fundamental: and the ignorance of these virtually condemn, and the denying of such, by consequence is a denying of the foundation. Things about the foundation, circa fundamentalia, are all things revealed in the word of God, as all Histories, Miracles, Chronol●gie, things anent Orion, the Pleyades, the North stars, Job 38. 31. 32. That Paul left his cloakc at Troas. The knowledge of these is considered three ways. 1. As necessary, by necessity of a mean, necessitate medii, and the knowledge; so is not necessary to salvation, many are in glory (I doubt not) who lived in the visible Church, and yet knew never that Samson killed a Lion; but the knowledge of all these is necessary, necessitate praecepti, because all in the visible Church are obliged to know these things, therefore the ignorance of these only doth not actually condemn, but virtually and by demerit lead to condemnation. 2. This knowledge is considered as commanded in the excellency thereof, and so error and bad opinions about these are sinfully ill, though in the regenerate, by accident, such errors condemn not, where the foundation is holden. 3. The knowledge of these is considered as commanded and enjoined to us with the submission of faith; for the authority of God the Speaker, and the malicious opposing of these is a fundamental error, not formally, but by evident consequent, for though the matter of these errors be not fundamental, yet the malicious opposing of these is a fundamental error against this principle [What ever God saith is true;] but God saith there were eight souls in the Ark of Noah. Hence because the historical things of Scripture and things about the foundation, as that Paul purified himself with the Jews, Act. 21. that Paul rebuked Peter, Gal. 2. is no less true, because God hath so spoken in his Word, than this fundamental point [Jesus Christ came into the world to save sinners] it is clear that the specifice and essential form of a fundamental article is not taken from the authority of God speaking in the Word, (seeing God's authority is one and the same in all that he speaketh) but from the influence that the knowledge of an article hath to unite us to God in Christ, and bring us to salvation. And secondly, it will follow that this [Thou shalt not by the use of things indifferent kill him for whom Christ died] and the like be no less fundamental, by evident consequent, in respect it is spoken by Gods own authority, than articles of our faith, Thirdly, it followeth that formalists ignorantly divide matters of God's worship, into matters of Faith, or points fundamental, and things indifferent, as if many scriptural truths were not to be found in God's Word, such as the miracles of Moses, and Elias, the journeys of Paul, which are neither matters fundamental, nor yet things indifferent. Fourthly, many things may be fundamental, by consequent, to one who can read the Word, and heareth it read, which is not by consequent fundamental to a rude and ignorant man. The knowledge of points fundamental is necessary. 1. To obtain salvation. 2. To keep communion with a true Church; for we are to separate from a Church subverting the foundation and laying another foundation. Fundamentals are restricted by many to the Creed of Athanasius, and b Nazian. 52. Gregorius (a) S●●●. Athanas. Nazimzen, and c Cyrill. 〈◊〉. Capoch. 4. sy●●b. Cyrillus of Jerusalem, to the Apostles Creed; (as it is called) others reduce all fundamentals to the famous Creeds of Ni●e, of Constantinople, of Ephesus, of Chalced●n; d Estius. l. d●st. 25. s 2. ad●●tam ●●cte Instituen●●●●. Estius restricteth fundamentals to things necessary for the well ordering of our life; e Davenin●. de pa●e E●●l. ● act. pag. 28. Davenantius saith better, That such are fundamental, the knowledge whereof is simply necessary to salvation, i● ignorance whereof doth condemn. Doctor Potter calleth them Prime and capital doctrines of our Religion, or of that faith which essentially constituteth a true Church, and a true Christian; which is good, but that he contradivideth from these things not fundamental, which may be disputed on either side, and cannot D●ci. P●tt●, Charity mistaken, cap. 8, 9 sect. 7. pag. 216. be determined by the Word of God, and must lie under a [non liquet] is his error. Yet he may know that g Bell. de Eccle. l. 3. c. 14 s. 5. Multa sum de fide quae non sunt necessaria ad salutem Bellarmine saith right many things are of faith, (and clear in Scripture, as historical relations) which are not fundamental. h Camero. de Eccl. pag. 272, 273. Camero, and a greater Divine than Camero i Beza volu. opusc. 2. de notis Eccl. pag. 141. Dom. Beza reduceth all fundamentals to things which necessarily belongeth to faith and obedience: and k Calvin. instit. lib. 2. cap. 16. 18. great Calvin retrincheth fundamentals within the Apostles Creed: l Occam dial. pag. 1. lib. 5. cap. 28. Semper ●●unt aliqu● Catholici qui in vera fide (de necessary ad salutem) explicit permanebunt. Occam will have the militant (Catholic) Church always explicitly or expressly beleevings things necessary to salvation: and our Divines teach that the Catholic Church cannot err in fundamentals: they mean with pertinacy and obstinacy. 2. In all fundamentals. 3. Totally and finally. But we are not to believe Papists, who say things are fundamental, materially in themselves, as all points necessary to be believed, but things are not formally fundamental, but such things only as the Church d●fineth to be fundamental. But 1. the foundation of our Faith is God's Word, and God's Word is necessary to be believed to salvation, whether the Church define it or no: to abstain from Idolatry is necessary to be believed, though Aaron and the Church of Israel say the contrary, neither doth God's Word borrow authority from men. 2. If the Church may make points to be fundamental by their definition, whereas before they were not fundamental, then may the Church make articles of faith; Sure I am Paipsts, as Gerson, Occam, Almain, Suarez, yea and a very Bellarmine is against this. Yea and by that same reason they may make fundamental points to be no fundamental points, and they may turn the Apostles Creed into no faith at all, for ejusdem est potestos creare & annihilare. 3. There cannot be a greater power in the Church, to define Articles of faith, then is in God himself; but the very authority of God doth not define a matter to be an article of faith, except the necessity of the matter so require, for God hath determined in his word, that Paul left his cloak at Treas, but that Paul left his cloak at Troas, is not (I hope) an article of faith, or a fundamental point of salvation. 4. What can the Church do, (saith a Vincentius Lyrinens advers. 〈◊〉. 32. Denique quid unquam concilioium d●cretis e●is● est (Ecclesia) nisi ut quod an●●a simpli●●●e●●●e lopstar, 〈◊〉 idem posted diligentius ●●d●etur. Vincentius Lyrinens.) but declare that that is to be believed, which before in itself was to be believed: and b Bellar de ●●ne auto●. l. 2. c. 12 Can●●lia cu● desin●unt non 〈◊〉 u 〈◊〉 ●sse in●allib●l●. ve●tatis, sed declarant Bellarmine saith, Counsels maketh nothing to be of infallible verity, and so doth c Scotus in I ●l 1●. q. t. Scotus say, Verity before heresies (erat de fide) was a matter of faith, though it was not declared to be so by the Church: Determinatio non facit vertatem, saith O●cam, The Church's determination maketh no truth. 3. The evidence of knowledge of fundamentals is gravely to be considered. Hence these distinctions. 1. One may believe that Christ is the Son of God by a Divine faith, as Peter doth, Matth. 16. 17. and yet doubt of the necessary consequences fundamental. Ergo, Christ must be delivered into the hands of sinners, and be crucified, as the same Peter doubted of this: for as one may fall in a grievous sin, though regenerated, and fail in act, and yet remain in grace, in habitu, the seed of God remaining in him; so may Peter and the Apostles doubt of a fundamental point of Christ's rising from the dead, John 20. v 8, 9 in an act of weakness, and yet have saving faith in Christ, as it is like many of of the Saints at Corinth denied an article of their Faith, the rising again of the dead: one act of unbelief maketh not an infidel. 2. Dist. A simple Papist and a Lutheran not well educated doth believe upon the same former ground, that Christ is true man, & hath an habitual faith of this article, that Jesus Christ is truly the Son of David, & yet holdeth transubstantiation, or consubstantiati●, that Christ's body is in many sundry places in heaven, and earth, on this side of the Sea, & beyond Sea, yet the connexion betwixt Christ's humanity and this monster of transubstantiation not being possible, all the error may be merely philosophic, that the extension of quantitative parts without or beyond part, is not the essence of a quantitative body; while as the rude man believeth firmly that Christ is true man, and so believeth contradictory things by good consequence; therefore the quality of the conscience of the believer is to be looked into, since fundamental heresy is essentially in the mind, and pertinacy and selfe-conviction doth inseparably follow it. 1. There is a conscience simply doubting of fundamental points, this may be with a habit of sound faith. 2. A scrupulous conscience which from light grounds is brangled about some fundamental points, and this is often in sound believers, who may and do believe, but with a scruple. 3. A conscience believing opinions and conjecturing and guessing, as in Atheists, this is damnable; but where obstinacy is, as defending with pertinacy transubstantiation, and that it is lawful to adore bread, this pertinacious defending of Idolatry doth infer necessarily, that the faith of the article of Christ's humanity is but false and counterfeit, and not saving. 3. Dist. There is a certitude of adherence formal, and a certitude of adherence virtual. A certitude of adherence formal is, when one doth adhere firmly to the faith of fundamentals. A certitude of adherence virtual is, when with the formal adherence to some fundamental points, there is an ignorance of other fundamental points, and yet withal a gracious disposition and habit to believe other fundamentals, when they shall be clearly revealed out of the word, so Luke 24. Christ exponed the resurrection, and the articles of Christ's sufferings and glorification, vers. 25, 26, 27. to the Disciples who doubted of these before, and yet had saving faith of other fundamental points, Matth. 16. 17. 18. 4. Hence there be two sorts of fundamentals, some principally and chiefly so called, even the elements and beginning of the doctrine of Christ, as Credenda, things to be believed in the Creed, the object of our faith; and p●tenda, things that we ask of God, expressed in the Lord's Prayer, the object of our hope specially. 2. Agenda, things to be done, contained in the decalogue, the object of our love to God and our brethren; Others are so secundarily fundamental, or less fundamentals, as deduced from these; yea there be some artcles of the Creed principally fundamental, these all are explicitly to be believed, noted by a Vigilius Martyr. l. 2. c. 4 Vigilius Martyr, and b Pareus in Prolegomen. in comment. in Host 4. Pareus: as that Christ died and rose again, etc. Other Articles are but modi articulorum fundamentalium, and expositions and evident determinations of clear articles: As Christ's incarnation, and taking on our flesh is explained by this, conceived of the holy Ghost, and borne of the Virgin Mary; the death and suffering of Christ is exponed by subordinate articles, as that he suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified, etc. and these lesser fundamentals are to be believed, necessitate praecepti, because God commandeth them, but happily non necessitate medii. It is possible many be in glory who believe not explicitly, but only in the disposition of the mind, (as some are baptised, in voto, in their desire only) these lesser fundamentals, it is enough they have the faith of non-repugnancy, or negative adherence to these, so as they would not deny them, if they had been proponed to them in a distinct and clear way. 5. The faith of fundamentals is implicit three ways. 1. In respect of the degree of believing. 2. In respect of the object. 3. In respect of the subject, or our adherence to things believed. In respect of degrees the faith is implicit and weak three ways, as Calvin may teach. 1. Because we are ignorant of some less fundamentals. 2. Because we see in a mirror and imperfectly. 3. In respect of believing upon a false ground, as for miracles. In respect of the object, the certainty is most sure, as sure as that God cannot lie. In respect of our adherence of understanding and affections; in this respect the knowledge of fundamentals must be certain. 1. By a negative certitude which excludeth doubting, and so Pastor and people must have a certitude of fundamentals, as Rom. 14, 5. Col. 1. 9 Heb. 5. 12. but for a positive certitude there is not that measure required in a teacher that is in a scholar, for all the body cannot be an eye, 1 Cor. 12. 17. yet is a Christian certitude and fullness of persuasion required even of all Christians, Colos. 2. 2. Colos. 3. 16. highest and greatest in its kind, though many may be saved with less, yet a distinct knowledge of fundamentals in all is not necessary by a necessity of the means, necessitate medii, as Beza and Doctor Ames Peza Vol 1. opul p 141. Amesius de c●ust●. l. 4. c. 2. q 3. Becanus 2. part de V●tu●i. Theolog. c. 2. q. 3. Estius l. 3. d. 25 q. 2. Suarez de Trip. disp. virt. Theolo. 13. sect 8. Thomas 22. q 2. art. 5. teach. There is a faith of fundamentals implicit in respect of the will and affections which Papists make a wide faith, as the J●u●e Becanus think to believe these two fundamentals, 1. That there is a God. 2. That this God hath a providence con●●●ning men's salvation, though other particulars be not known. Or implicit faith is, saith Estius, when any is ready to believe what the Church shall teach; which faith (Suarez saith) though it include ignorance, yet keepeth men from the danger of errors, because it doth submit the mind to the nearest rule of teaching, to wit, to the Church; the knowledge of fundamentals in this sense doth not save, but condemn. Thomas saith better than he. 6. Dist. They are not alike who believe fundamental heresies. 2. And who defend them. 3. And who teach them, and obtrude them upon the consciences of others. For the first, many believe fundamental errors who are ignorant of them, and do think that they firmly adhere to Christian Religion, O●cam termeth such, haereticos nescientes, ignorant heretics, as O●cam dialog. p. 7. l. 4. c. 3. ●●ac. ● Moratius de fide dist. 24. sect. 4 n. 7. 8. the Marcionites, and the Manicheans, and these the Church should tolerate while they be instructed. It is true the Jesuit Meratius saith, When many things are proposed to the understanding for one and the same formal reason, to wit, for divine authority, the understanding cannot embrace one but it must embrace all, nor ●●ject one, but it must reject all, which is true of a formal malicious rejecting; the Manichean believeth nothing because God saith it, and hath faith sound and saving in nothing, but it is not true of an actual or virtual contempt, in one or two fundamentals, because believers out of weakness, ignorance, and through strength of tentation may doubt of one fundamental, as the Disciples doubted of the resurrection, Joh. 20. 9 and yet in habit believe all other fundamentals, but the Church is to correct such as profess fundamental heresies, and to cast out of the Church seducers and deceivers. 7. Dist. It is one thing to hate a fundamental point, as that [Christ is consubstantial with the Father] as the Arians do, and another thing, by consequence to subvert a fundamental point, as Papists by consequence deny Christ to be true man, while they hold the wonder of Transubstantiation, yet do not they hate this conclusion formally [that Christ is true man.] 8. Dist. Though it were true which Doctor Christo. Potter saith, If we put by the Points wherein Christians differ one from another, Doctor Potter Charity mistaken, c. 8. s. 7. pag. 235. and gather into one body the rest of the articles, wherein they all gnerallaly agree, we should find in these propositions, which without all controversy are universally received in the whole Christian world, so much truth is contained, as being joined with holy obedience may be sufficient io bring a man to everlasting salvation. I say, though this were true, yet will it not follow that these few fundamentals received by all Christians, Papists, Lutherans, Arians, Verstians, Sabellians, Maccdonians, Nestorians, Eutychanes, Socinians, Anabaptists, Treithitae, Antitrinitarii (for all these be Christians and validely baptised) do essentially constitute a true Church, and a true Religion. Because all Christians agree that the old and New Testament is the truth and Word of God, and the whole faith of Christian Religion is to be found in the Old Testament, acknowledged both by Jews and Christians; for that is not the Word of God indeed in the Old Testament, which the Jews say is the Word of God in the Old Testament. Yea the old and new Testament, and these few unc●n●●averted points received universally by all Christians are not God's Word, as all these Christians expone them, but the dreams and fancies of the Jews saying, that the old Testament teacheth that Christ the Messiah is not yet come in the flesh, the Treithitae say there be three Gods, yet are the Treithitae Christians in the sense of Doctor Potter: so that one principal as that There is one God, and Christ is God and man, and God is noely to be adored, not one of these are uncontraverted, in respect every society of Sectaries have contrary expositions upon these common fundamentals, and so contrary Religions. Who doubteth but all Christians will subscribe and swear with us Protestants the Apostolic Creed but will it follow that all Christians are of one true Religion, and do believe the same fundamentals? now these fundamentals are the object of faith according as they signify things. To us and to the Treithitae this first Article (I believe in God) as I conceive doth not signify one and the same thing; now join this (I believe in God) with holy obedience as we expone it, and as the Treithitae expone it, it could never be a step to everlasting salvation; for it should have this meaning, (I believe there is one only true God, and that there be also three Gods) and what kind of obedience joined with a faith made up of contradictions, can be available to salvation? 3. One general Catechise and confession of faith made up of the commonly received and agreed upon fundamentals, would not make us nearer peace, though all Christians should swear and subscribe this common Christian Catechise, no more than if they should swear and subscribe the old and new Testament, as all Christians will do, and this day doth. 9 Disl. Though the knowledge of fundamentals be necessary to salvation, yet it cannot easily be defined, what measure of knowledge of fundamentals, and what determinate number of fundamentals doth constitute a true visible Church, and Voetiu. de●p. cans. Papa●s●. a sound believer, as the learned Voetius saith. Hence 1. They are saved, who sound believe all fundamentals materially, though they cannot distinctly know them, under the reduplication of fundamentals, nor define what are fundamentals, what not. 2. Though a Church retain the fundamentals, yet if we beforced to avow and believe as truth, doctrines everting the foundation of faith, against the article of one God; if we must worship as many Gods as there be hosties, if Christ's Kingly, Priestly, and Prophetical office be overturned, as we were forced in Popery to do, we are to separate from the Church in that case. It is not true that Master Robinson saith, This distinction of fundamentals and nonfundamentals in injurious to growing in Robinson lust ●s●. pag. 362. grace, whereas we should be led on to perfection, as if it were sufficient for a house, that the foundation were laid. Answ. It followeth not, for the knowledge of fundamentals is only, that we may know what is a necessary means of salvation, without which none can be saved, notwithstanding, he who groweth not, and is not led on to perfection, never laid hold on the foundation Christ; nor are we hence taught to seek no more, but so much knowledge of fundamentals, as may bring as to heaven, that is an abuse of this Doctrine. 2. Robinson faith fundamental truths are holden and professed by as vile heretics as ever were since Christ's days, a company of excommunicates may hold, teach and defend fundamental truths, yet are they not a true Church of God? Answ. Papists hold fundamentals, and so do Jews hold all the old Testament and Papists hold both new and old, but we know they so hold fundamentals, that by their doctrine they overturn them; and though there be fundamentals taught in the Popish Church, which may save if they were believed, yet they are not a true and ministerial Church simply, because, though they teach, that there is one God, they teach also there is a thousand Gods whom they adore, and though they teach, there is one Mediator, yet do they substitute infinite Mediators with and besides Christ, so that the truth is, not a formal, ministerial and visible active external calling is in the Church of Rome, as it is a visible Church, in the which we can safely remain, though fundamentals be safe in Rome, and the books of the old and new Testament be there, yet are they not there ministerially as in a mother whose breasts we can suck; for fundamental points falsely exponed, cease to be fundamental points, yea as they be ministerially in Rome, they be destructive of the foundation, though there be some ministerial acts valid in that Church, for the which the Church of Rome is called a true Church, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, in some respect, according to something essential to the true Church, yet never sine adjecto, as if it were a true Church, where we can worship God. Fundamentals are safe in Rome materially in themselves, so as some may be saved who believe these fundamentals; but fundamentals are not safe in Rome, Ecclesiastice, Ministeraliter, Pastoraliter, in a Church way, so as by believing these from their chairs so exponed, they can be saved who do believe them. 2. Out of which we may have the doctrine of faith and salvation as from a visible mother, whose daughters we are. Some say the fundamentals amongst Lutherans are exponed in such a way as the foundation is everted? I answer, There is a twofold eversion of the foundation. 1. One Theologicall, Moral and Ecclesiastic, as the doctrine of the Council of Trent, which is in a ministerial way, with professed obstinacy against the fundamental truths rightly exponed, and such an eversion of the foundation maketh the Popish Church no Church truly visible, whose breasts we can suck. But for Lutherans, their subversion of the foundation by philosophic consequences without professed hatred to the fundamentals, and that not in an Ecclesiastic and Ministerial way, doth not so evert the fundamentals, as that they be no visible Church. The learned Pareus showeth that there be no difference Pareus in Jere. c. 12, 13, 14, etc. betwixt us and Lutherans in heads absolutely necessary to salvation, the dissension is in one point only anent the Lord's Supper, not in the whole doctrine thereof, but in a part thereof, not necessary for salvation. There were divisions between Paul and Ba●nabas, betwixt Cyprim an African Bishop, and Stephanus Bishop of Rome, anent baptism of heretics, which Cyprian rejected as no baptism; betwixt Basilius Magnus and Eusebius Ce●ariensis, because Basilius stood for the Emperor Veins his power in Church matters; so was there dissension betwixt Augustine and Hier●nimus anent the ceremonies of the Jews, which Hyeronymus thought might be retained to gain the Jews; so there was also betwixt Epiphanius and chrysostom anent the books of Orig●n. The Orthodox believers agreed with the Novations against the Arrians anent the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉; the consubstantiality of Christ; and though excommunicate persons defend and hold all fundamentals sound, and so may be materially a true Church, yet because their profession is no profession, but adenying of the power of godliness, they cannot be formally a visible Church, but are for scandals casten out of the visible Church. But (saith Robinson) most of England are ignorant of the first rudiments and foundation of Religion, and therefore cannot be a Robinson Justifi. pag. 362. Church. Answ. Such are materially not the visible Church and have not a profession, and are to be taught, and if they wilfully remain in that darkness are to be cast out. But (saith he) the bare profession of fundamentals maketh not a Pag. 363, 364. Church; they must be a company of faithful people, and if they must not be truly faithful, than they must be falsely faithful; for God requireth true and ready obedience in his word, according to which we must define Churches, and not according to casual things. Answ. This is a special ground that deceiveth the Separatists, their ignorance (I mean) of the visible Church, for the visible Church consisteth essentially neither of such as be truly faithful, nor of such as must be falsely faithful; for the ignorant man seeth not that the visible Church includeth neither faith, nor unbelief in its essence or definition. It is true, to the end that professors may be members of the invisible Church, they must be believers, & must believe, except they would be condemned eternally; but to make them members of the visible Church neither believing nor unbelieving is essential, but only a profession ecclesiastically in tear, that is not scandalous & visibly & apparently lewd and flagitious, such as was the profession of Simon Magus, when he was baptised with the rest of the visible Church, Act. 8. And God indeed requireth of us true worship and ready obedience, as he saith, but not that a visible Church should be defined by true and sincere obedience: for essentials only are taken in a definition, and casual corruptions are only accidental to Churches, and fall out through men's faults, and therefore should not be in the definition either of a visible or an invisible Church; nor should ready and sincere obedience which is a thing invisible to men's eyes, be put in the definition of a visible Church, for it is accidental to a visible Church, and nothing invisible can be essential to that which essentially is visible; the visible Church is essentially visible. Anent separation from Rome we hold these Propositions. 1. Profession consistetly not only in a public ministerial avowing of the truth, but also in writing, suffering for the truth, and death-bed-confessions of the truth; These worthy men in their own bowels, as Occam, Petrarcha, Gerson, Mirandula, these who in their death bed renewed confidence in merits, Saints, Images, were the true Church, and the other side the false Church, all the Churches of Asia excommunicated by Victor, as a Bellarmine de ve● bo Dei lib. 3. cap 6. Bellarmine saith and Binnius; b Binnius tom. 1. council. fel. 133. Pope Stephen then and his Council denying communion to Cyprian and fourscore of Bishops must be the Separatists, and Cyprians and his adherents the true Church. 2. In this division we are united to the true Apostolic, to the ancient Church, to the true ancient Church of Rome, which opposed the Apostate Church of Rome, but an immediate and personal adherence to, and union with the ancient Church is not essential to a visible Church. The separation from a true Church, where the Word of Just. sic. pag. 264, 265. God Orthodox is preached, and the Sacraments duly administered, we think unlawful; and the place for separation mainly I would have vindicated, 2 Cor. 6. 14. Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers, etc. Robinson will have this strong for their separation, and saith. 1. It is true, he findeth fault with the believing Corinthians, communicating with the unbeleeters in the Idol feasts, but with all it must be considered, that the Apostle up in this particular occasion delivereth a general doctrine, as from ●●●●●tion, 1 Cor. 5. to forbid commingling with fornicators, with 〈◊〉 persons, with Idolaters, etc. and as he forbiddeth partaking with the wicked in their evils, yet then therein did he forbid all religious communion with them, since their very prayers, and other Sacrifices are their evils, wherein whilst the godly doth communicate with them, what do they else but acknowledge their common right and interest in the holy things with them? Answ. 1. It is good that Robinson with the interpreters doth acknowledge, that Paul forbiddeth communicating with unbelievers a● Idol feasts, as the place will command us to separate from the Mass Service, and therein let it be that he inferreth a general; Ergo, you are to separate from all the worship of the Gentiles Idols, and are not to be mixed with them in their service, which they give to their false gods: but this is not the general which includeth separation from a Church, in the service of a true God, the service being lawful, and only evil to some worshippers and by accident, because they eat to themselves damnation, but not damnation to others. 2. But he forbiddeth (saith he) all partaking with the wicked in their evils. I distinguish their evils in their evils, of their personal sins in not worshipping the true God in faith, sincerity & holy zeal, that I deny, and it is to be proved, Christ himself and the Apostles eated the Passeover, and worshipped God with one whom Christ had said had a devil, and should betray the Son of man, and was an unclean man, Job. 13. 11, 12. 18. He forbiddeth all partaking with the wicked in their evils, that is, in the unlawful and Idol-worship, or in their superstitions and will-worship; that is true, but nothing against us, or for your separation. If it be said, Judas was neither convicted of his Traitory to Christ, nor was he known to the Apostles by name to be the man, for some of them suspected themselves, and not Judas to be Traitor: but you communicate with such as be professed and avowed Traitors, and persons known to be scandalous, and so you acknowledge you have a common right in these holy things, with these persons. Answ. 1. Christ showed to the Disciples that they were an unclean society, and that one had a devil, and therefore though they knew not the man by name who had the devil, they knew the society to have a devil, and to be unclean, for that one man his cause, and so neither Christ nor his Disciples should have taken part with the evils, and the Prayers and sacrifices of the wicked, for in so doing they acknowledge that they have commune right and interest in the holy things of God, with some who have a devil, and with an unclean society; but you cannot condemn Christ and the Disciples communicating at that Supper. 2. Though the scandalous person be not convicted of the scandal, that doth make the scandal more grievous and heinous to the scandalous person, in that he dare remain in a sin, though he be convicted of his guiltiness by the Church, but it doth not make the persons scandal to be no scandal, and no uncleanness at all; for magis & minus non variant speciem, more or less of sin doth not vary the nature of sin: now if Paul will the Corinthians to meet together to eat the Lords body, as he doth, 1 Cor. 11. and know that there be amongst them carnal men, such as go to Law with their brethren before Infidels, such as deny the resurrection, such as come drunk to the Lords Supper, though they be not convicted of these sins by the Church, yet if they be known to others, as Paul doth declare them in that Epistle, they must pollute the Lords Table before the Church convict them, no less then after the Church hath convicted them, though the pollution may be more and greater after Church-conviction, than before, yet Paul willeth all the Corimbians to acknowledge their communion with the sins of the non-convicted, and with their abominable and wicked sacrifices and prayers, which none can teach or believe of the Apostle led by an infallible spirit, and therefore to communicate with them, is not to take part of their evils. 3. He saith at last, They who communicate at the same Table with scandalous persons, what do they else but acknowledge their common right and interest in the holy things of God, with such scandalous persons? And this is that which Master Coachman saith, This banquet Robert Coachman, The cry of the S●o●e, sect. 4. pag. 10. 1●. of the Lords Supper, is the nearest fellowship that the Saints have in this world; what lying signs and dec●avable demoust●ations d●e these make who communicate they care not where, nor with whom, but think if they examine themselves, it is well enough, forgetting that it is an act of communion? for if we sever the word Sacrament from communion, we put out God's term and put in our own. But I answer. 1. These who are baptised by one spirit unto one body, as all the visible Churches are, 1 Cor. 12. 13. & professedly hear one Word preached, do thereby acknowledge they have one communion, right and interest in these holy things, to wit, in a communion with Christ in remission of sins, and regeneration sealed in baptism, and in one common Saviour, and common faith preached in the Gospel; and is this communion unlawful, and this fellowship a lying sign, because all baptised, and all hearing one Gospel, and that in an avowed profession, are not known to be regenerated? Then should no Infants be baptised, except they know all in the visible Congregation baptised with them to be regenerated also, for it is certain that we have a communion most inteare and visible with all who are baptised. 2. It is no inconvenient to profess that we are all one visible body in the Lord's Supper, 1 Cor. 10. 17. though we be not one invisible, true, and mystical, and redeemed body of Christ, as it is said, 1 Cor. 10. 2. That all were baptised unto Moses in the cloud, and in the Se●t, v. 3. and that all did eat the same spiritual meat, v. 4. and that all did drink the same spiritual drink, the rock Christ, yet did they not sin in this, and partake with the wicked in their ●ills, to wit in their wicked prayers and sacrifices, because it is said, v. 3. God was not pleased with many of them in the Wilderness, because, v. 6. They lusted after evil things, and many of them were Idolaters, Epicures, fornicators, tempters of Christ, and mumurers, and there sell of them in one day twenty three thousand, v. 7. 89, 10, 11. And upon the same ground Paul saith in the same place, v. 16, 17. that we many (speaking of the Corinthians) are all 〈◊〉 ●read, and one body, and yet v. 21. many of these were partakers of the Table and cup of the devils: and in the next Chapter, many came drunk to the Lords Table, many did eat and drink their own damnation, and were stricken therefore of God with sickness and de●th, v. 18, 19, 20. 29, 30, etc. and yet v. 33. Paul charges them to come together to the Lords Supper, so far is he from a shadow of separation. The Sacrament is a seal of their unity of one body, and is a Seal of their communion with Christ, v. 16. but all who receive the sign, have not a communion with Christ, nor are they all sealed, as one body mystical of Christ, only they are in profession by eating one bread, declared to be one body, and do become one body visible, and no question many make the Sacrament to themselves a lying sign, and a blaneke ordinance. But first, this is not the sin of such as do communicate with those, who receive the blaneke seal, and make the Sacrament to themselves a lying seal and damnation; for they are commanded to exaamine themselves, and so to eat, but they are not commanded to examine their fellow-communicants, and they are to judge themselves, but not to judge their fellow-communicants. Master Coachman. How can any godly man consent, or say Amen Master Coachmen cry of the stone. Sect. 4 pag. 11. (saith be) to such an holy action, when it is jointly done, by such, as for the most part, are the enemies of God? Answer 1. This maketh against the man, and the Churches of New England, for they admit constantly to the hearing of the word, and so to the prayers of the Church, those who are not received members of the visible Church: how can any godly man say Amen to the action of hearing the word, when it is jointly done by God's enemies? I prove the Antecedent, the unity of faith hearing one word of faith preached, Eph. 4. 5. maketh a visible body in profession, even as the joint partaking of one bread, and one cup in the Lord's Supper, maketh one body, by obsignation or sealing, 1 Cor. 10. 16, 17. 2. Division of hearts in hearing, while some follow Paul, some Apollo, some Cephas, maketh a schism and division in Christ's body, 1 Cor. 13. Ergo, in hearing one and the same word preached, there is a visible Church-union, for all division of that kind presupposeth a union, and unity in a visible incorporation. 3. 1 Cor. 14. 26. When ye come together (as one Church body) every one of you hath a Psalm, hath a Doctrine, vers. 4. He that prophesieth edifiesh the Church, vers. 31. so ye may all prophecy one by one, that all may learn, and all may be comforted, 35, it is shame for a woman to speak in the Church. Therefore the Saints meet together in one Church to be edified, and comforted by doctrine and hearing of the word, do all jointly perform an action of hearing and learning of the word of God, and are in that one Church, and one visible body, and called one Church, verse 4. 5. that the Church may receive edifying, verse 12. Seek that ye may excel (by prophesying) to the edifying of the Church, vers. 23. If therefore the whole Church come together, unto some place, etc. vers. 28. if there be not an interpreter, let him keep silence in the Church, verse 34, 35. And these who understand, are all to say, Amen, to that which is prophesied, verse 16, 17. And yet that action of hearing and saying Amen to the word preached, and to the prayers of the Church, is done by many unregenerated, who are yet in the state of enmity with God, as our Brethren grant, in that they do admit all to be a Church, and one Church hearing the word preached. 2. But how can they say Amen, (saith he) to a holy action done 〈◊〉 God's enemies? I answer, 1. This objection is no less against Paul and the word of God, then against us; for many enemies to God, whose hearts are rocky, thorny and stony ground, do hear the 〈◊〉 of God, and that by God's commandment, Matth. 13. vers. 2. 3, 4, 5. & c. The deaf and the blind are commanded to hear, Esai. 42. 18. Esai. 28. 9, 10. and these whom God hath covered with a spirit of slumber, are to hear the words of the sealed book, Isai. 29. 9 10, 11. even those who stumble at the word, and fall, and are broken, Esai. 8. 14. 15, 16. 1 Pet. 2. v. 8. What godly man can say, Amen, to such a holy action, as is performed by God's enemies? 2. The godly say Amen to actions of God's worship two ways, 1. As it is the ordinance of God enjoined, and commanded, to the wicked and hypocrites, no less then to the godly, and we are to countenance their communicating, as we do their hearing of the word, and to join with them both, in our real and personal presence, and say Amen with them, as the Disciples gave their personal Amen, and their countenance and presence to a holy action at the last Supper, with one of their number, whom they knew to have a Devil, and to be a traitor, and dipped their hand in the dish with this man, after Christ had warned them, that there was such an one: but this is but to say Amen to the external worship, which is lawful, according to the substance of the act. 2. The godly may be through to say Amen to the actions of worship performed by the enemies of God, by approving, allowing, and commending the manner of their performing the holy actions of God's worship, that is, they may be thought to approve the manner of their hearing and receiving the Sacraments, that is, when they approve their performing of those holy actions without faith, and with wicked hearts and hands, and when they allow that they eats their own damnation, thus no godly man can say Amen to holy actions performed by God's enemies, nor is our external communicating with them, a saying Amen to the wicked manner of receiving the seals, this is most unreasonable, and cannot be proved by God's word. But Robinson will prove that in this place, 2 Cor. 6. the Lord forbiddeth communion not only with evil works of wicked Just if pag. 265. men, but with their persons, and that he commandeth a separation, not only real, but personal. 1. Because (saith he) the Scripture hath reference to the yoking of the unbelievers in marriage, as the occasion of spiritual idolatrous mixture, which he reproveth; now this joining was not in an evil, or unlawful thing, but with the wicked and unlawful persons. Answer, If the man had form a syllogism it should be a crooked proportion, if Paul allude to the marriage with insides, then as we are not to join with Pagans in lawful marriage, so neither with scanned ●●ous Christians in lawful worship. This connexion is gratis said, and we deny it; But as we are not to marry with Pagans, so not to sit in their Idoll-Temple, and to be present in their idol-worship, else we were not to admit them, or their personal presence to the hearing of the word, contrary to yourselves and to 1 Cor. 14. 24, 25. So if because we are not to marry with them, we are not to be personally present with them, at the receiving of the Sacrament, neither at the hearing of the word, nor are we to be baptised, because Sim●n Magus, and many Hypocrites are baptised. 3. Local separation from idol-worship, in the Idoll-Temple, we teach as well as Robinson, but what then? he commandeth local and personal separation from all the professors of the truth, in the lawful worship of God, this we deny to follow. 2. The very terms saith Robinson) believers, unbelievers, light, darkness, Christ, Belial, do import opposition not of things only, but of persons also, for things sake, so the faithful are called a Cor. 5. ●1 righteousness, b Matt. 5. 14 light, and the ungody c Sphes. 58. darkness, and so not only their works, but their persons are called. Answer. 1. We deny not opposition of persons, and separation local from persons in idol-worship, at an Idoll-Table, but hence is not concluded personal separation from wicked men in the lawful worship of God. 2. This is for us, we are to separate from the persons; because the worship is unlawful, and idol-worship, and therefore the contrary rather followeth, i● the worship were lawful, we would not separate, for remove the cause and the effect shall cease. 3. The Apostle (saith he) forbiddeth all unlawful communion in the place, but there is an unlawful communion of the faithful with the wicked in things lawful, as with the excommunicated, idolatrous, 〈◊〉, or my other flagitious person in the Sacraments, prayers, and other religious exercises, and the jews were to separate themselves, 〈◊〉 from the manners of the He●then, but even from their ●ers●s, ●zr. 19 1. 2. and 10. 2, 3. Nehem. 9 10. 28 30. And Paul 〈◊〉 the Corinthians, 1 Cor. 5. for having fellowship, not only in ●● persons in●est, but with the incestuous person, whom therefore they 〈◊〉 ●urge out, and to put away from amongst themselves, verse 5. ●. 13. Answer, It is true, there is an unlawful communion of the faithful that is overseers and guides of the Church, to whom God hath committed the keys of the Kingdom of Heaven, with excommunicated persons, in that they retain one worthy to be excommunicated in the bosom of the Church: but communion with the Church in the holy things of God, is not hence concluded to be unlawful, because the guides of the people communicate with that Church where the excommunicated person is suffered, it is the sin of the church-guide, that an excommunicated person is not cast out, and that he is suffered to communicate at the Lords Table, and to profane ●, in not discerning the Lords body, but it is not the sin of either guides or the people, to communicate at one Table with the excommunicated person, or him that deserveth to be excommunicated; for not casting out is one thing, and to communicate with the excommunicated in the true visible Church is another thing; the former is a sin, not to use the power that Christ hath given, but to communicate with the excommunicated person, is not a sin, but a remembering of the Lords death at Christ's commandment; for one sin maketh not another sin to be lawful, or to be no sin; to deliver one unto Satan is to debar one from the Lords Supper, and to repute him as a Publican, and to judge him not worthy of the communion in the holy things of God, with the Church; but this is not to repute the Church or guides or members as Publicans and Heathens, and as not worthy of Church-communion with the man who is cast out: we see the Church of Corinth rebuked, for not excommunicating the incestuous man, but not forbidden to come and eat the Lords Supper with him, and these who came and did eat their own condemnation● 1 Cor. 11. yea they are commanded to come to the public meeting: Ergo, it is one thing not to excommunicate the scandalous, a sin, and another thing to communicate with the scandalous, which is not a sin directly, nor forbidden at all. Though Paul have an allusion to the Lords separating of the Jews from all other people, yet it followeth not that we are to separate from the wicked men and unrenewed, professing the truth that way; first, because there was a typical separation in marriage with Canaanites; if the Jews should marry with the Canaanites, the marriage was null, and the Moabites and Ammonites ought not to enter in the Temple. 2. The Jews are to separate from the manners of Heathen, and from the persons of strange wives, yea and to put their wives of the Canaanites after they had married them, away from them, in token of their repentanee, because the marriage was not only unlawful, but null, as is clear, Ezra. 9 1, 2, 3. N●hem. 9 1, 2. And this was a peculiar Law binding the holy seed, but doth not infer the like separation of Christians, for 1 Cor. 7. 11, 12. it is not lawful for a Christian to put away a Pagan wife, or for the believing wife to forsake the Pagan husband, and therefore that Jewish separation cannot infer a separation from the persons and worship of unbelievers; and it is true that Paul commandeth, to cast out the incestuous person, and to separate him from the Church, but it followeth not, therefore the Church was to separate from the public worship because he was not cast out. 4. Saith Robinson, the Apostle inj●yneth such a separation, at upon which a people is to be esteemed God's people, the Temple of the living God, and may challenge his promise to be their God, and to dwell amongst them, and to walk there; and as for the Temple, the stone● and timber thereof, were separated from all the trees of the Forest, and set together in comely order; and he hath reference to the separating of the Jews from all other people, as appeareth, Levit. 23, 24, 26. 11, 12. And this must be the condition of the Israel of God, to the world's end. Answ. There is a separation from Idol-worship here, such as is proper to the people in Covenant with God, de jure, the visible Church should separate from Idols and the profane world in their Idol-worship, and sinful conversation. Ergo they should separate from the worship of God; What sewing is here? this is nothing for separation from the true Church, or true worship, for the sins of worshippers. Hear what interpreters say, as a Gual●her come. in loc. Non debet hoc simpliciter, de solo discessu, ●x● migratione, quae corpore fit, accipi, quasi mox migrandum sit ex●mnibus locis, in quibus vel superstitiones exercentur, vel stagiti●s●ct inhoneste vivitur, sic ex hoc mundo migrandum esset. b Calvin come. Calvin, de sugienda idololatria hic concionatur. Item, Nihil non sibi lice● putabant in externis, promiscue se impiis superstitionibus itionibus pollu●bant, siquidem insidelium couvivia frequent ando, communicabant prophanos ● impuros ritus cum ill is, atqui cum gravissime peccarent, sibi tamen ●idebantur innoxii, ergo hic invehitur Paulus in externam idololatri●●. c Bullinger com●nent Pa●ke●us de p●lit. eccles lib. 1. cap. 14 N. 3. 2 Cot. 6. 14. At loquitur de infidelibus Pau●●, apud quos lnec legis ●ultusque der, ne● ver● fidei nec evangelii vel fundamenti rudera erant. Bullinger, Ego quam simplicissime intelligo de contagione ●orum, volupt●tum, sacrorum adeoque idolothytorum et rerum prophanarum omnium communione, putant quidam prot●nus migrandum ●x quibuslibet urbibus, si non omnes, in his, per omnia deo obediant. d Sch. Meyer. Meyer, Objurgat ne majorem, quam dedeceret Christianos, cum Ethnicis haberent consuetudinem, vel idolothytis vescendo, vel ●●●jugium contrahendo, vel ludos theatrales spectando. e Se●. Meyer. Marlorat, H●tur ut caveant ab omni contagione tot sordium. Ita Theophylactus, Ambrose, et Augustinus. Paraphrastes, non in 〈◊〉 (inquit) sed in affectibus est fuga, quam suadet: so Beza, and Papists are not against this. Estius, neque Corinthii vocabantur h●bitare cum infidelibus, neque negotiari, neque cibum sumere. Chap. 8. v. 10. Signis vocat vos ad mensam etc. Vetat arctam so●i●atem, et necessitudinem ex qua oriebatur periculosa quaedam necessit●s communicandi in moribus et religione. Salmeron docet non li●ere Christianis jungi cum idelolatris, non relinquendo patriam aut lxum, sed cultum illorum; All which Divines accord in this, that separation from Idolatry and the Idoll-tables of the Gentiles is here commanded, and that because the Church of God in the New Testament, is no less a people in covenant with God, to whom the promises do belong, and the presence of God working in them, than the people of the Jews were of old: But it followeth not hence that one part of the Israel of God under the New Testament should separate from the other. What weakness is this? he alludeth to Israel's separation from the Nations, which was personal; therefore we are in person to separate from the true Church for their personal sins, when the worship is right. But m Robinson 〈◊〉. pag. 266, 267. Robinson saith, Papists, Atheists, Idolaters, Anabaptists, and many more, do worship Jesus, from whose societies notwithstanding you profess separation. 2. The Ismaelites and Edomites do worship the true God, though not after a true manner, and yet the Israelites were a people separated from them, an Edomite might not bear any public office among the Jews to the third generation: yea Israel was commanded to separate from Israel, for a usurpation of the ministry, Num. 16. and upon Jeroboam his defection in the ministry, worship and new devised holy days, 2 Chron. 11. 13, 14, 15. 1 King. 12. 28, 29, 30, 31, 32. Answ. 1. Papists, Anabaptists, Idolaters, are disavowed by us, and from them we separate, because though they profess the true God as Edom did, yet they closely do evert the fundamentals; neither we, nor the reformed Churches, in words or by consequence do evert the fundamentals, and necessary points of salvation, and if the Church of Corinth was not to be separated from, nor Thyatira, where the resurrection was denied, and false doctrine maintained, you have no reason to parallel us with Papists, Atheists, Anabaptists. 2. No Covenant is made with the one true God, and the Edomites and Ismaelites, but the promises are made to us, and to our children, and to as many as the Lord shall call, by the true Gospel preached, Act. 2. 39 Robinson. The Apostles (saith he) disjoineth righteousness and unrighteousness, light and darkness, as far asunder, as believers ●ag. 271. and unbelievers, as the Temple of God and Idols, in which former also the union betwixt Christ and Belial, is as monstreus as in the latter: also all unbelievers are led by the devil, and cannot be the martyr of the true Church, and that some persons led by the devil and some not should be the martyr of the true Church is unknown to Scripture. Answ. 1. In the Text, 2 Cor. 6. Righteousness and unrighteousness, light and darkness are as far asunder as the temple of God and Idols, and as Israel and Edom. I answer in respect of the object material of false worship, they cannot morally be united, that is true, believers at Corinth worshipping the true God in Christ, cannot be united with such, as in Idols temples are at one and the same Idol worship: and as to marry Christ and Belial, light and darkness, is a monster, so it is no less morally monstrous, that the true worshippers of God in Corinth, who give themselves out for the servants of God, should be joined in any Society with the service of dumb Idols; and thus far Israel and Edom, a servant of God and an Idolater, must separate and part companies, but in respect of the persons they may be united in one visible corporation and Church; else you may say by this argument, because faith in the eleven Apostles and unbelief in Judas, are as contrary as light and darkness, Christ and Belial, and as Israel's true worship and Edom's false worship, and because the righteousness, light and faith of the Apostolic Church. Act. 8. and the unrighteousness, darkness and unbelief of Simon Magus are contrary to others (as they are as contrary as light and darkness) that therefore the eleven Disciples and Judas made not one visible Church and the Apostolic Church, and Simon Magus and others in the gall of bitterness with him, though baptised and joined to the Church, did not make up one visible Church; now since you acknowledge no visible Church, but there be in it beside unbelievers, though not seen, there is no visible Church of your own, wherein this monstruous combination of light and darkness is not. And so all your Churches are false in their constitution, if there may not be a union of the persons of men led by God, and regenerated, and of Hypocrites led by Satan, and unregenerated; and these meeting to one and the same true worship, as Judas and the eleven did eat one and the same passover. The Scripture (saith Robinson) denounceth the same judgement Pag. 272. of God, Ezech. 18. upon him that defileth his neighbour's wife as to him who lifteth his eyes to the mountains and the Idols thereof, and murderers are excluded out of the heavenly Jerusalem as well as Idolaters, and Matth. 28. We are to esteem every obstinate offender as a heathen and a Publican, and Paul chargeth the Corinthians to avoid F●rnicators, etc. 1 Cor. 5. as well as Idolaters, so all carnal men are Idolaters, making their belly their God: and the Apostle to Titus calleth profane persons unbelievers or infidels; Ergo, we should walk toward the one, as toward the other, that is, separate from them both. Answ. 1. It is true, God denounceth judgement against lewd and unknown hypocrites, as against worshippers of the Gods of the Zidonians, as your places prove, Ezek. 18. Rev. 22. but your Logic is poor and blind, that you will separate from the true Church, in which there be secret hypocrites, and so from your own Churches, as you would separate from the Church of the Zidonians, who worship professedly Baa●, and deny Jehovah to be God, you make arguments without head or foot. 2. Murderers are excluded out of heaven, and haters of their brethren, who are murderers from life eternal, 1 Joh. 3. 15. as Idolaters, what then? Ergo, ye will exclude them out of the visible Church, and separate from them. It is good that you come out with Anabaptists to make these only of your visible Church, who shall reign in glory with Christ, and these only, and all without your visible Church to be firebrands of Hell, as Revel. 22. 15. 3. We are 1 Cor. 5. to avoid Fornicators, no less than Idolaters, true. Ergo, we are to separate from the Church, where there be Fornicators, seeing they make the Church to be false in its constitution, as we are to separate from a society of heathen Idolaters who worship a false God: do you love such consequences? men not forsaken of mother wit would say, I must separate from Aaron, and the whole Church of Israel, in the act of adoring the golden Calf, which is indeed a separation from the false worship of the Church, but not separate from the Church; but would you hence infer, because God punisheth fornication no less than Idolatry, that I am to separate from the Church, and all their persons and society in the very true worship of God, because some few persons there be fornicators and carnal? Surely then Paul did not his duty, who commanded communion with the Church of Corinth, 1 Cor. 5. wherein there were carnal men, and deniers of the resurrection, and such as for gain went to the Law, with their brethren, and that before Infidels; yea because all sin in the demerit thereof (except you devise venials) exclude men out of the new Jerusalem, we must separate from all Churches on earth, for there be none so clean, but there be some sin in it, which excludeth out of the new Jerusalem, as Idolatry doth, though there be degrees of sin. But some ignorant ones say the place, 1 Cor. 5. 11. is to be expounded of eating at the Communion Table, or if it be of familiar eating and drinking, of civil conversing, then much more are we not to communicate with them at the Lords Table. But not to eat with such a one, is not to keep entire fellowship with him, as the phrase noteth, Psal. 4. 9 He that eat of my bread hath lift up his b●ele against me. Joh. 13. 18. Psal. 55 13. So doth chrysostom, The●phylact us, Oecumenius expound this place, Bullinger, contub●●nium & interiorem convictum prohibet; So Calvin, Peter Martyr, B●za, Piscator, Pareus; So Erasmus and Aquinas, Haymo, Gagneius. Nor is all eating whatsoever with Heathen persons forbidden, Paul practised the contrary, Act. 13. 14. 5. 6. Act. 14. 8. 9 Act. 17. 16, 17. Act. 27. 34, 35, 36. Act. 28. 11, 12. 1 Cor. 10. 27. 2. The wife is not to separate, a toro & mensa, from the excommunicated husband, nor the son from the excommunicated father, no positive Law can cancel the Law of nature, nor can hence be concluded that it is unlawful to keep any Church communion with these, or to separate from the communion, though they be at the Table. 1. Because such eat damnation to themselves, not to others. 2. Because no private person can separate, for the Church's sin, if the man be not convicted; And lastly, here is to be observed, that if the Church be not in its right constitution, that is, as Mr. Robinson Pag. 273. teacheth us, if it be not a people in whose hearts the Lord ●●th written his covenant, we are to separate from it; so as if one be found to be a non-converted, though not scandalous, he must be excommunicated for non-conversion, never breaking out in scandals, a thing contrary to the Word of God, as I have proved already. Mr. Robinson objecteth, Act. 2. 40. Save yourself from this untoward generation. Ans. That is, from the malicious Jew's who deny Pag. 267. Christ to be the Messiah. But what is this to separate from the true Church, professing Christ? But Robinson saith, You deny visibly God, and his Son Christ. Answ. 1. Such as are thus scandalous are to be cast out. 2. If the Church neglect to cast them out, we are not to cast out and excommunicate the Church by separating from them, no more than the godly forsook the Church of the Jews, where there were many scandalous persons. 3. There be great odds betwixt a froward generation professedly denying Christ to be come in the flesh, as the Jews, Act. 2. (and from such a Church we are to separate totally;) and betwixt a Church where there be many wicked persons, who in their life and conversation deny Christ, and yet do believe sound or orthodoxly the fundamental points of salvation, and hold in profession the orthodox faith: for though we are to separate from the bad conversation of such a generation, yet are we not to separate from the Church-worship, and church-society of such a generation: therefore Paul might well break off communion with the Church of the Jews, whereof he was once a member, because after Christ's death, ascension, and the Gospel was preached, it now became a fundamental point of salvation, simply necessary to be believed by all (That the Son of Mary was the Messiah) which because the Jews maliciously denied, they left off to be a Church; but a scandalous life in many of the professors, is not for that any ground to separate from the visible Church, professing such fundamental points. Robinson saith from Job. 17. 6. 7. 9 Where the Church is said to 〈◊〉. of separation. pag. 269. be given to Christ, and chosen out of the world, it is clear that the true visible Church is gathered, by separation from the world. But I answer, to be given to Christ and chosen out of the world is meant only of the elect and invisible Church. But Arminians, Pelagians, and old Anabaptists expound it of the visible Church, that they may make Judas, whom they allege was chosen out of the world, no less than Peter, an example of their universal election, and of the small apostasy, of the truly elected and regenerated. And you have to side with you in this the Apostate a Pet●●s Bert●u● de ap●st●●a Sanct ru●n, pag. 21. 22. Peter Bertius, b Coll●cut. Hagiensi●, pag. 414 〈…〉 illud ●ean 17 Qu●● dedisti wehee 〈◊〉 cust●divi. Respondent resutari c●nfecutione (●de 〈◊〉 possibilitate apost 〈◊〉) ver●is illis 〈◊〉, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. the Arminians at Hage, c Armin. 〈◊〉. pag 22●. Arminius himself, the Socinians, as d Socinus pr●●ect. Theolog. cap. 12 pag. 46 55, 56 cap. 13 pag 61. Socinus, e Theoph. Ni●●laid. 〈◊〉. 〈◊〉. de 〈◊〉. cap. 3. pag. 26. & cap. 4 pag. 67, 68 Theoph. 〈◊〉; and you may see yourselves refuted by Amesius f Amesius in 〈◊〉 art 5. cap. 5. fuse pag. 456, 457. refuting the Arminians in the conference at Hage: and this you expressly say with Arminians and Socinians. 1. Because, (as you say) Judas was one of them, whom the Father had given to Christ out of the world, whom alone of all them so given to him, he hath loosed; Ergo, Christ speaketh of a visible donation. Answ. The Antecedent is false, Joh. 6. 37. All that the Father had given me, cometh unto me, and him that cometh unto me I will in no ways cast out, v. 39 And this is the Father's will which ●●th sent me, that of all which he hath given me, I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day. But Judas was cast out and loosed, and is not raised up at the last day, as one which cometh, that is, believeth in Christ. 2. This is the very exception of the Arminians, and Amesius answereth, quae Scriptura manifesto est judicio judam non it a Christo datum & commendatum fuisse a Patre ut ●aeteros. Christ (saith Robinson) speaketh of such persons as the world hated, because they were not of the world, Job. 15. 14. But the wicked world 〈◊〉 not hate men, as they are elected before God, and invisibly or inwardly separated, ●ut as they are outwardly separated, whether they be inwardly so or not. Answ. 1. Invisible election and the contrary spirit that the children of God are led by, which is most unlike to the spirit that leadeth the world, is the true ground and cause why the world doth hate them; and this choosing out of the world, is seen and made visible by the fruits of the spirit to the wicked world, but the consequence is nothing, he speaketh of election that is visible or made visible, yet not as visible for often Paul termeth the visible Churches, Saints, Temples, of the holy Spirit, the sons and daughters of the living God, and when he termeth them such, he speaketh to, and of a visible Church, yet not as visible, because to be the temple of the holy Spirit, and a son and daughter of the living God, is a thing formally, and properly invisible: for faith and the spirit of adoptien are not things visible or obvious to the senses, but Separatists are often deceived with this, he speaketh to the visible Saints, Ergo, he speaketh to them as visible Saints, this is the vain collection of ignorant Anabaptists; Paul writeth to the visible Church, but every privilege that he doth ascribe to them doth not agree to them, as they are visible. He saith to the visible Church of Colossians, ch. 3. v. 3. your life is hid with Christ in God, an unvisible life cannot agree to the Colossians, as they are a visible Church, so separation from the world made manifest and visible is the cause why the world hateth the children of God, yet that separation is formally invisible and not seen to the eye of men, for it is an action of God to choose men out of the world, and no eye mortal can see his actions, as they be such. And therefore except Robinson prove that this choosing out of the world is common to elect and reprobate, and to be seen in Peter and judas, he bringeth nothing against us to prove his point, but he plainly contradicteth his own tenants; for in his first reason, he will have the true Church separated from the world, as judas the traitor was separated from the world, which we grant that is separation in show, and in profession, and so maketh his visible Church to be made up of traitors and hypocrites, who cannot be the Spouse of Christ, nor a part of Christ his mystical body, and his redeemed flock. Now he still harpeth on this, that the visible Church rightly constitute is the Spouse of Christ, the redeemed of God, the mystical body of Christ, and so he contradicteth himself, and saith with us that there be no visible separation from the world, essential to such a Church as they dream of, to wit, of called Saints, Temples of the holy Spirit, etc. and therefore never one of that side understood to this day the nature of a true visible Church, though they talk and write much of it; for the truth is, the essence and definition of a Church agreeth not equally to a true Church and a visible Church, yea a visible Church as it is visible is not formally a true Church, but the redeemed Church only is the true Church. Lastly, He speaketh (saith he) of such a choosing out of the world as he doth of sending unto the world, v. 18. Which sending as it was visible and external, so was the selection and separation spoken of. Answ. The choosing out of the world is not opposed to sending unto the world, for sending unto the world is an Apostolic sending common to Judas with the rest, whereby they were sent to preach the Gospel to the world, of chosen and unchosen, of elect and reprobate, but to be chosen out of the world, and given to Christ, is proper to the elect only, who are chosen out of the loosed and reprobate world. 2. It is also false that the sending of the Apostles is altogether visible, for the gifting of them with the holy Spirit is a great part of sending the Apostles, as our brethren say, a gifted man is a sent Prophet; but the Lord his gifting of the Apostle is not visible. You cannot (saith Robinson) be partaker of the Lords Table and of devils. Ergo, we must separate from the ungodly. Pag. 77●● Answ. The Table of Idols is that Table of devils and of false worship kindly in respect of the object that we must separate from, but a scandalous person at the Lords Supper partaketh of the Table of devils by accident, in respect the person being out of Christ eateth damnation to himself, but it is not per se and kindly, the Table of devils to others, and therefore I must not separate from it; The Supper was to Judas the devil's Table, because Satan entered in him with a sup, to cause him to betray the Lord; and Christ told before, one of them twelve had a devil, and so to one of the twelve the Supper was the devil's Table, yet could not the Disciples separate therefrom. Further he objecteth, Paul condemned the Church of Corinth as kn●●ed lump, and as contrary to the right constitution, finding so many aberrations and defections from that state, wherein they were gathered unto a Church; who dare open so profane a mouth as to affirm, that this faithful labourer would plant the Lords v●neyard with such imps, or gather unto the Church flagitious persons, drunkards, i●●es●tous persons, or such as denied the resurrection? Answ. 1. Paul never insinuateth in one letter, that these wicked persons, marred the constitution and matter of the visible Church, but only that they marred the constitution of the invisible Church, that being bought with a price, they should give their bodies to harlotry, and that in denying the resurrection they denied the Scriptures, and turned Epicures, who said, Let us ●a●e and drink, for to morrow we shall die; but there is nothing to insinuate separation from the Church, as false in the constitution. 2. Paul doth not plant wicked men as imps in the Lord's Vineyard, they plant themselves in the room of true members of the Church invisible, and as the redeemed of God, when they are not so indeed, and this sort of planting is given improperly to the pastors. But if you understand by planting, the casting out of the draw-net of the word of the kingdom preached, and the inviting of as many to come in as the Pastors do find, Matth. 22. 9 10. even good and bad; this way it is the mouth of truth, and not a profane mouth, that Pastors invite professors to come in, and be members of the visible Church, though their act of inviting have no kindly influence in the hypocrisy of their profession who are invited. To profess the truth is good and laudable, and to deny it before men, damnable, and to invite men to this profession of the truth, is good and laudable also. And wisdom sendeth out her maidens, and by them inviteth simple ones and fools to profess the truth, and to come to the visible Church, Prov. 9 4. Prov. 1. 20, 21. but Pastors do not plant drunkards, and flagitious persons in the visible Church, but the Apostolic Church calling to her communion Simon Magus, Act. 8. but doth not plant them as hypocrites, but as external professors. Coachman Cry of the stone. pag. 5. Mr. Coachman saith, It is no wrong to leave the carnal multitude, as it was no hurt to Jehosaphat, when Elisha in his presence protested against Joram, as one, betwixt whom and God he would not intercede. Answ. Put case Jehosaphat be a Church visible worshipping God aright, you wrong his society, if you leave the shepherd's tents, where Christ feedeth amongst the Lilies till the day break, because there be foxes in these tents and wicked persons. Is it not (saith he) sweeter to converse with the Godly, then with the ungodly? Is not the presence of faithful Christian's sweeter, when one cometh to pour out his prayers, and offer his oblation, than the society of carnal men? Answ. This will prove it is lawful to separate from Pharisees preaching the truth in Moses his chair, the contrary whereof you were, Sect. 4. Pag. 10. because it is sweeter to hear the word with the Godly, then with the ungodly. We have not found (saith Coachman) the honourable name of Christians or godly men given to liars, swearers, etc. no comfort, no privileges belong to them in that state, it belongeth not unto them, but unto us to build the house of the Lord, Ezra 4. 3. Answer. Yea, God bestoweth the privileges of external calling unto good and bad, even to those who prefer their lusts to Christ, Matth. 22. 9 Luk. 14. 17, 18, 19 2. The place of Ezra is corrupted, for those were the open adversaries of Judah and Benjamin, v. 1. and were not the Church at all. 3. Only Pastors are public and authoritative builders of the Church, not private Christians. The wicked (saith he) have the things of this life above the godly, Ergo they should not be invested in the highest prerogatives above the godly: also it is a presumption to say to any carnal man, This is the body of the Lord, that was given for thee. Answer. It is the cry of a stone to reason thus, this argument is as much against God's providence as against us, for God sendeth to Capernaum and Bethsaida, the privilege of Christ's presence, in preaching the Gospel, and working miracles, yet they are an unworthy people. 2. Pastors of the separation give the body of Christ to lurking Hypocrites, are they not herein presumptuous also? They object, To live in the want of any of God's ordinances is not lawful, as Matth. 28. 20. 2 Chron. 30. 8. Cant. 1. 7. 8. so saith Robinson. A man is not only bound in his place to admonish justif. p. 201. his neighbour, but also to see his place be such, as be may admonish his brother; a calling absolutely tying a man to the breach of any of God's Commandments, is unlawful and to be forsaken. Answ. Seeing affirmative precepts tie not ad semper, and Christian prudence is to direct us here; there be some in Church communion whom we cannot without palpable inconveniences rebuke: The Ministers of New-England in their answer to the n● question, say, such as are not free (servants or sons) may stay in paroch Assemblies in Old England, so as they partake of no corruptions, and live not in the want of any ordinances (they mean wanting the Lords Supper) through their default; now to separate from the Lords Supper, because of the wickedness of the fellow-worshippers is their default, which is against Robinson, yet we see not how masters or fathers should separate from Christ's true Church more than servants or sons. 2. Not to admonish, in some cases, is not a breach of a Commandment, nor living besides scandalous persons in a Church, or for any to abstain from the seals because such be in the Church, except we would go out of the world, for Robinson presseth always personal separation, no less than Church separation. Robinson. There is the same proportion of one member sinning, of a few, of many, of a whole Church: now if one brother sin and will not be reclaimed, he is no longer to be reputed a brother, but a heathen: Ergo, so are we to deal with a Church though there be a different order, the multitude of sinners do no ways extenuate the sin. Answ. 1. Then may a whole Church by this reason be excommunicated, which our brethren deny. 2. There is the same proportion to be kept when one sinneth, and when a whole Church sinneth, but by observing due order; one may admonish a private brother, but not any one, or many private persons, may admonish and proceed after our Saviour's order, against a whole Church in a Church way, in respect they are still inferior to a whole Church: sister Churches and Synods are to keep this order with one particular Church, that is incorrigible, for private persons have relation of brotherhood to private persons, and the relation is private, and Churches have Church relation to Churches, and the relation is public; Nor are whole Churches to be excommunicated, while God first remove the Candlestick, as we see in Rome, and the seven Churches in Asia. 2. It is considerable, 1. If the whole Church be obstinate and incorrigible, or some few, or the most part. 2. If the sins be against the worship of God, as idolatry, or sins of a wicked conversation, the worship of God remaining pure, and sound, at least in professed fundamentals. 3. If the idolatry be essential idolatry, as the adoring of the work of men's hands, or only idolatry by participation, as Popish ceremonies, the Surplice, and Cross, being as means of worship, but not adored, and so being Idols by participation; as a Amesius his fresh suit against Ceremonics. Amesius and b 10. Ball his Answer to M. Cann. par. 2. pag. 23. M. Ball do well distinguish, and before them, so doth the learned c Reynold de Idololatria lib. 2. cap. 2. Reynold, and d Bilson of Chri. Ar. Subject. part 4. pag. 321, 322. Bilson make use of the distinction. 4. All lenity must be used against a Church, if not more lenity, than we use in proceeding against single persons. 5. Divers degrees of separation are to be considered: hence these considerations, 1. There is a separation Negative, or a non-union, and a separation Positive. Though a Church of Schismatics retaining the sound faith, yet separating from other, be deserted by any, it is a Negative separation from ● true Church, and laudable: as the faithful, in Augustins' time, did well in separating from the Donatists, for with them they were never one, in that faction, though they separated not from the true faith holden by Donatists, but kept a Positive union with them; so do all the faithful well to separate from the Churches of the Separatists. 2. If the whole and most part of the Church turn idolatrous, and worship Idols, (which is essential idolatry) we are to separate from that Church: the Levites and the two Tribes did well, as e Ball lo● ci●, Mr. Ball saith, to make a separation from Jeroboams Calves; and the godly laudably, 2 King. 16. 11. did not separate from the Israel, and Church of God, because the Altar of Damascus was set up, and because of the high places. Things dedicated unto Idols, as Lutheran Images, may be called, and are called 1 Cor. 10. 34. idolatry, yet are they idolatry by participation, and so the Cup of Devils, 1 Cor. 10. Paul doth not command separation from the Church of Corinth, and the Table of the Lord there. 3. Consideration. There is a separation from the Church in the most part, or from the Church in the least and best part. In Achabs' time Israel, and the Church thereof, for the most part, worshipped Baal; Elias, Micaja●, Obadiah, and other godly separated from the Church of Israel in the most part: Jeremiah wished to have a Cottage in the Wilderness (no doubt a godly wish) that he might separate from the Church all then for the most part corrupted, yet remained they a part of the visible Church and a part in the visible Church, and therefore did he not separate from the Church according to the least and best part thereof; The godly in England who refused the Popish ceremonies, and Antichristian Bishops, did well not to separate from the visible Church in England, and yet they separated from the mainest and worst part, which cannot be denied to be a ministerial Church. 4. Considerate. If a Church be incorrigible in a wicked conversation, and yet retain the true faith of Christ, it is presumed God hath there some to be saved, and that where Christ's ordinances be, there also where Christ's ordinances be, there also Christ's Church presence is; And therefore I doubt much if the Church should be separated from, for the case is not here as with one simple person, for it is clear, all are not involved in that incorrigible obstinacy, & that is yet a true visible communion, in which we are to remain, for there is some union with the head Christ, where the faith is kept sound, and that visibly; though a private brother remaining sound in the faith, yet being scandalous and obstinately flagitious be to be cast off, as an Heathen, yet are we not to deal so with an orthodox Church, where most part are scandalous. 5. Considerate. I see not, but we may separate from the Lords Supper, where bread is adored, and from baptism where the sign of the Cross is added to Christ's ordinances, and yet are we not separated from the Church, for we professedly hear the word, and visibly allow truth of the doctrine maintained by that Church, which do pollute the Sacraments, and we are ready to seal it with our blood, and it is an act of visible profession of a Church, to suffer for the doctrine mentioned by that Church. 6. We may well hold that f Ambros. come. in Luc. Lib. 6. cap. 1. Signa est ecclesia quae fidem respuat, nec Apostolicae praedicationis fundamenta possideat, ne quālabē perfidiae possit aspergere, deserenda est. Ambrose saith well, that a Church wanting the foundation of the Apostles, is to be forsaken. 7. There is a forced separation through Tyranny from personal communion, and a voluntary separation; David was forced to leave Israel, and was cast out of the Inheritance of the Lord; the former is not our sin, and our separation from Rome hath something of the former, the latter would be wisely considered. 8. There may be causes of non-union with a Church, which are not sufficient causes of separation: Paul would not separate from the Church of the Jews, though they rejected Christ, till they openly blasphemed, Act. 13. 44, 45, 46. Act. 18. 16. And when they opposed themselves and blasphemed, Paul shook his ●ayment and said unto them, Your blood be upon your own heads, I am clean, from henceforth I will go to the Gentiles. There is a lawful separation, and yet before the Jews came to this, there was no just cause, why any should have joined to the Church of the Jews, who denied the Messiah, and persecuted his Servants, Act. 4. Act. 5. seeing there was a cleaner Church, to which Converts might join themselves, Act. 2. 40, 41 42. 9 There is no just cause to leave a less clean Church (if it be a true Church) and to go to a purer and cleaner, though one who is a Member of no Church, have liberty of election, to join to that Church, which he conceiveth to be purest and cleanest. 10. When the greatest part of a Church maketh defection from the Truth, the lesser part remaining sound, the greatest part is the Church of Separatists, though the maniest and greatest part in the actual exercise of Discipline be the Church; yet in the case of right Discipline, the best though sewest, is the Church; for truth is like life, that retireth from the maniest members unto the heart, and there remaineth in its fountain, in case of danger. CHAP. 4. SECT. 6. The way of the Churches of Christ in New England. IN this Section the Reverend Author disputeth against the Baptising of Infants of unbelieving, or excommunicated neareit The way of the Churches of Christ in New England. Chap. 4. Sect. 6. Parents, of which I have spoken in my former Treatise: Only here I vindicate, our Doctrine. And first the Author is pressed with this, the excommunicated persons want indeed the free passage of life, and virtue of the Spirit of Jesus, till they be tuitched with repentance, yet they are not wholly cut off from the society of the faithful, because the seed of faith remaineth in them, and that knitteth them in a bond of conjunction with Christ. The Author answereth, It is true, such excommunicates, as are truly faithful, remain in Covenant with God, because the seed of faith remaineth in them, yet to the society of the faithful joined in a particular visible Church, they are not knit, but wholly cut off from their communion, for it is not the seed of faith, nor faith itself, that knitteth a man to this, or that particular Church, but a holy profession of the Faith, which when a man hath violated by a grievous sin, and is delivered to Satan, he is now, not as a dead palsie-member, cut off from the body, though be may remain a member of the invisible Church of the first borne, yet he hath neither part, nor portion, nor fellowship in the particular visible Church of Christ Jesus, but is as an heathen and a publican: now Sacraments are not given to the invisible Church, nor the members thereof, as such, but to the visible particular Churches of Jesus Christ, and therefore we dare no more baptise his child, than the child of an heathen. I Answer, First, if Faith remain in some excommunicated person, (as you grant) it must be seen in a profession, for though for some particular scandal, the man be excommunicated, yet is he not cut off (as we now suppone) for universal apostasy from the truth to Gentilisine, or Judaisme, for than he should be cursed with the great excommunication, 1 Cor. 16. v. 22. and so though he be to the Church as a heathen, in that act, yet is he not to the visible Church an heathen, but a brother, and to be admonished as a brother, 2 Thess. 3. 15. and the Church is to use excommunication as a medicine, with intention to save his Spirit in the day of the Lord, 1 Cor. 5. 4, 5. 1 Tim. 1. 20. an excommunicated apostate is not so: now if he retain faith to the Churches decerning, he retaineth the profession of Faith, and in so far a visible membership, with the Church in the Covenant; Ergo, for that professed Faith, by our brethren's grant, his child should be baptised, and so is not wholly cut off, but is as a dead palsy member of the Church, and so as a member, though in a deliquie, and Lethargy. 2. You say to the faithful of a particular Church, the excommunicate is wholly cut off: What do you mean? if his sins be bound in heaven, (as they are, if he justly be excommunicated) is he not also cut off, to all the visible Churches on earth● are not all the Churches to repute him as a publican and a heathen? I believe they are, but you deny in this all visible communion of Church's. 3. You say, it is not the seed of Faith that knitteth a man to a particular visible Church, but an holy profession. But in the excommunicate person, (if the seed of faith remain as you grant) this faith must be seen, by you, in a holy profession, else to you, he hath no seed of faith; and if his profession of faith remain entire, though it be violated in the particular obstinate, remaining in one scandal, for the which he is excommunicated, you have no reason to say, that to the particular Church, he is wholly cut off, since his profession remaineth. 4. You say, It is not the seed of faith, nor faith itself that knitteth a man to this or that particular visible Church, but a holy profession of faith. Then I say, one may be knit to a particular visible Church, and a true member thereof, though he want both the seed of Faith, and Faith itself. I prove the connexion. A man is a perfect and true member of a Church, though he want that which doth not knit him to the Church, this is undeniable: But without the seed of Faith or Faith itself, (as you say) he is knit to the true Church: Ergo. But this is contrary to your Doctrine, who require, chap. 3. sect. 3. that none must be admitted members of a visible Church, but those who are Christ his body, the habitation of God by the Spirit, the Temples of the Holy Ghost, etc. And that no● only by external profession, but in some measure of sincerity and Truth. Now consider my Reverend Brethren, if there be a measure of sincerity and Truth, where there is neither the seed of Faith, nor Faith itself: and surely by this you cast down and mar the constitution of your visible Church, when you exclude from the members thereof, the seed of Faith, and Faith itself; and you come to our hand, and teach, that the seed of Faith, and Faith itself, is accidental to a visible Church as visible, which we also teach: and so there is no measure of truth and sincerity required to the essential constitution of a visible Church. 5. But I would gladly learn how you contra-distinguish these two, Faith, and a holy profession of Faith? Do you imagine that there can be a holy profession knitting a man to the visible Church, where there be neither the seed of Faith, nor Faith itself? It is Arminian holiness, which is destitute of Faith, but if you mean by a holy profession, a profession conceived to be holy, though it be not so indeed, than you do yet badly contradivide a holy profession from faith, for before any can be knit as a member to the visible Church, you are to conceive him to be a Saint, a Believer, and so to have both the seed of Faith, and Faith itself, though indeed he have neither of the two, and so Faith is as well that which knitteth a man as a member to the visible Church, as holiness. 6. If he remain a member of the universal Church of the first borne, is he therefore so as a heathen, and so that you dare no more receive him to the Supper, nor his seed to baptism, nor you dare receive a heathen, and his seed to the Seals of the Covenant? is a heathen a member of the invisible Church of the first borne? but the excommunicated you presume is such a one. 7. What warrant have you for this Doctrine, That the Sacraments are not given to the invisible Church, as it is such, but to the visible? Certainly, God ordaineth the Sacraments to the believers as believers, and because they are within the Covenant, and their interest in the Covenant, is the only true right of interest to the Seals of the Covenant, profession doth but declare who believe and who believe not, and consequently, who have right to the Seals of the Covenant, and who not, but profession doth not make right, but declareth who have right. The Author subjoineth, Christ giveth no due right unto baptism to the child, but by the Father's right unto the Covenant and communion of the Church, so by taking away right unto the Covenant and Communion of the Church from the Father, he taketh away the children's right also, the personal sin of the parent in this case is not a mere private personal sin, but the sin of a public person of his family: for as his profession of his faith at his receiving unto the Church, was as the profession of a public person receiving him and his children, who could make no profession but by his mouth unto the Church, so his violation of his profession by a scandalous cri●●, was as a public violation thereof for himself and his seed, who stand or fall before the Church in his name and his person. Answ. 1. It is true, Christ giveth right to baptism to the child, by the Father's right. I distinguish that, by the nearest father only I deny, by the right of fathers in general, true; but than it will follow, that no infant is to be debarred from baptism for the sins of his nearest parents, for if these who are descended of Abraham and David, many generations upward from them, were within the Covenant, and so had right to circumcision, for the Covenant made with David and Abraham, and the nearest father's sin is not the cause of taking away the right to the Covenant from the child, and right to the Church Communion. 2. I much doubt if the child have right to the seals of the Covenant, for the faith of the father, and so I deny that he loseth right to the seals of the Covenant for the father's scandalous crime, which is a violation of the Covenant. I do reverence grave and learned divines, who speak so; a Oecolampadius in Epist. Oecolampadius, and b Zuinglius lib. 2. pag. 301, 302. Zuinglius say that Infants are sanctified by their parent's faith; but I conceive they take the word faith objectively, for the doctrine of faith profeffed by the father, and not subjectively. But I think that great Divine c Beza quaest. & ●esp lib 126. Nequaqu●n tamen facile dixc●●m, quempiam aliena fide servari, nequis hoc peri●de accipiat, ac si d x●rim, parentum fidem imputari infantibus, quasi aliena side credentibus; quod quidem non minus falsum & absurdum fuerit, quam si dixerim, quempiam posse aliena anima vivere, aut alterius sapientia sapere. Beza saith well, that no man is saved by another man's faith, nor can the parent's faith be imputed to the children, which is no less absurd, nor to say that one man liveth by the soul and life of another man, and that he is wise by the wisdom of another man: how then are Infants within the Covenant for their parents? I answer, for the faith of their fathers, that is, for the Covenant of their fathers they have right to baptism, for that I will be thy God, and the God of thy seed, Galat. 3. 8. comprehendeth all the believing Gentiles. And for this cause the children of Papists and excommunicate protestants which are borne within our visible Church are baptised, if their forefathers have been found in the faith; and I think the reason is given by d Doct. Morton his appeal, lib. 4. cap. 6. sect. 1. pag. 464. Doctor Morton, who saith, The children of all Papists, Anabaptists, or other Heretics, are to be distinguished from the children of Turks and Pagans, because the Parents of Papists and Anabaptists have once been dedicated to Christ in baptism, and the child (saith he) hath only interest in that part of the Covenant, which is sound and Catholic, while as the parents themselves stand guilty of heresy, which by their own proper and actual consent, they have added unto the Church. And I think the Scripture saith here with us, that the nearest parents be not the only conveyors and propagators of federal holiness to the posterity, Psal. 106. 35. They were mingled with the heathen and learned their works, 36. and they served their Idols, etc. 44. Nevertheless he regarded their affliction, 45. and he remembered, for them, his covenant. What Covenant? His Covenant made with Abraham, and yet their nearest fathers sinned, v. 6. We have sinned and our fathers, v. 7. Our fathers understood not thy wonders in Egypt, they remembered not the multitude of thy mercies, but provoked him at the Sea, even at the red Sea, v. 8. Nevertheless be saved them for his name's sake. His name was the glory of the Covenant made with Abraham, by which his name and truth, by promise was engaged, Esa. 63. 10. But they rebelled and vexed his holy Spirit, therefore he was turned to be their enemy, and he fought against them, v. 11. Then he remembered the days of old, Moses and his people, saying, Where is he that led them, and brought them out of the red Sea? So also Esay 51. 1, 2, 3. and most evidently, Ezek. 20. 8. They rebelled against me, etc. But I wrought for my name's sake, that it should not be polluted before the heathen, among whom they were, in whose sight I made myself known unto them, in bringing them forth out of the land of Egypt. Now this name is to be expounded his Covenant, Jerem. 31. 32. which he made with them, when he brought them out of the land of Egypt, which Covenant is extended unto the Christian Church, Heb. 8. 8. 9, 10. Now if God gave right unto the sons of the Jews, I mean federal right, to temporal deliverance, and the means of grace, for the Covenant made with Abraham, though their nearest parents rebelled against the Lord, that same Covenant in all the privileges thereof endureth yet, yea and is made to all the Gentiles, ●al. 3. 8. Heb. 8. 8, 9, 10. for it is the covenant national made with the whole race, not with the sons upon the condition of the nearest parents saith, as is clear after Christ's ascension unto heaven, Act. 2. 39 For the promise is to you and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even to as many as the Lord our God shall call. Now it is clear that their fathers killed the Prophets, Matth. 23. 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35. they were a wicked generation under blood, v. 37. 2. It is clear that these externally, and in a federal and Church profession have right ecclesiastic to the Covenant, to whom the external calling of the preached Gospel doth belong, while he saith the promise (of the Covenant) is made to as many as the Lord our God shall call, so the called nation, though the nearest parents have killed the Prophets, and rejected the calling of God, Matth. 23. 33. 34. 37. is the nation which have external and Church-right to the promises and Covenant, and Rom. 11. 28. As concerning the Gospel they are enemies for your sake, but as touching the election they are beloved for the father's sake: now their nearest fathers maliciously opposed the Gospel, therefore it must be for the election of the holy nation, in which respect, the nation of the Jews, v. 16. was a holy seed, and a holy root, and the children were also the holy branches, holy with the holiness of the Covenant; and Joshua had no reason to circumcise the people at Gilgal, for the holiness of their nearest parents, whose earcasses fell in the wilderness, yet he circumcised them, to take away the reproach of his people; now this reproach was uncircumcision in the flesh, the reproach of the Philistims, (so Goliath is called an uncircumcised Philistim) and of all the nations without the Covenant of God: yea by this there were no reason to circumcise the sons of Achab and Jezabel, whose nearest parents were slaves to Idolatry, and who were bloody persecutors of the Prophets; nor was there reason to circumcise Jeroboams son, in whom there was some good, for both father and mother were wicked Apostates: and very often, by this doctrine, should the people of the Jews leave off to be the visible Church, and so the promise of the Covenant should fail in the line from Abraham to David, and from David to Christ; even so oft as the nearest parents did evil in the sight of the Lord; and many times should God have cast off his people whom be foreknew; contrary to that which Paul saith, Rom. 11. 1, 2, 3. To these I add, if the infants of the Christian Church have only right to baptism, through the faith of the nearest parents only, then is this to be conceived either to be true and saving faith, in the nearest parents, or only faith in profession: if you say the former, then 1. The seed of the excommunicated parents, in whom is faith, or the seed thereof is to be baptised, the contrary, of which you affirm. 2. Then the seed and Infants of no Parents, but of such only as are members of the invisible Church of the first borne, are to be baptised, the contrary whereof you teach, while you say, The Sacraments are not given to the invisible Church, and the members thereof, but to the visible particular Churches. 3. The Infants of the unbelieving parents, though members of the visible Church, have no right to baptism, and the Covenant, though they be the elect of God, and borne within the visible Church, which is admirable to us, now it is known that Hypocrites and unbelieving parents have often such a lustre of a green and fairelike profession, as that they go for visible members of the Church, so as their children are by Christ's warrant and right baptised. I come to the other point, if the faith of nearest parents, only true in profession and show before men, give right to their Infants to be sealed with the seals of the Covenant: Then 1. apparent and bypocriticall faith conferreth true right to the seals to Infants, and there is not required (as the author saith Chap. 3. Sect. 3.) that the members of the visible Church be the called of God, the sons and daughters of the Lord God Almighty, not only in external Chap. 3. Sect. 3. profession, but also in some measure of sincerity and truth. 2. God hath warranted his Church to put his seal upon a falsehood, and to confer the seals upon Infants, for the external profession of faith, where there is no faith at all, this your writers think inconvenient and absurd. Also it is objected by us, that excommunicates children are in no better case by this doctrine, than the children of Turks and Infidels. The Author answereth. We willingly (saith he) put a difference; excommunicates are nearer to helps, and means of salvation and conversion, than Turks, 1 Cor. 5. 5. because excommunication itself is a mean that the spirit may be saved: and Turks are nearer than Apostates, who turn enemies to the truth, for better never have known the way of truth, then to turn back. But in this they agree, they are all of them as Heathen, Matth. 18. and therefore neither parents nor children have right to the seals. Answ. This is not an answer, for the Infants of excommunicates, though they be the seed of ancestors, as grandfathers, who were true believers, yet as infants and dying in Infancy, are no less without the Covenant, and excluded from the seals thereof, by you then the Infants of Turks. 2. The Infants of nearest parents in the Jewish Church, though wicked, were not excluded from circumcision, nor were they in the case of the Infants of the profane heathen; and the same covenant made to the Jews and their seed, is made to us, and to our seed, Gal. 3. 8. Heb. 8. 9 10. Rom. 11. 27. 28. Act. 2. 38, 39 We also affirm, that the Lord extendeth the mercy of the Covenant to a thousand generations, and therefore the line 2. Commandment, Exod. 20. of the covenant-mercy is not broken off, for the unbelief of the nearest parents. Our Author answereth. Is the extension of God's mercy to a thousand generations be a sufficient ground to extend baptism to the Children of excommunicates in the right of their ancestors, it may suffice as well to the children of Turks and Insidels, and Apostates, for it is not above sixty and six generations from Noah to Christ, as is plain in the Genealogy, Luk. 3. 13. and there have not passed as many more generations from Christ's time Answers to the 32. questions sent from Old England to New England. to the Turks, and Infidels of the present age. And all will not amount (say they in their answers) to the sum of two hundred generations. The true meaning is, that God out of his abundant and rich mercy may and doth extend thoughts of redeeming and converting mercy and grace unto thousand generations, but he never allows his Church any warrant to receive unto their Covenant and communion the children of godly parents, who lived a thousand years ago, much less a thousand generations; nay rather the Text is plain, 1 Cor. 7. 14. that the holiness of the children depends upon the next immediate parents, to wit, upon such faith as denominateth them believers in opposition to Pagans and Infidels, and that holiness to the children is called federal, which receiveth them unto the Covenant and seals thereof. Answ. 1. We stand not on the number of a thousand precisely, nor doth the holy Ghost intent that, for as it is usual in Scripture, a a 1 Sam 1. 8. Revel. 1. 4. Psal. 12. 6. Prov. 24. 16. 25. Esay 4. 1. Cant. 5. 10. 1 Cor. 14. 19 Deut. 33. 17. Psal. 3. 6. Micah 6. 7. definite number is put for an indefinite: Wrath followeth the Ammonite and Moabite to the tenth generation, Deut. 23. 2, 3. and the Edomite and Egyptian though cursed, entereth into the Congregation of the Lord, the third generation, v. 7. 8. The Lord here walketh in a latitude, yet so as the mercy of the Covenant is extended to more generations, a thousand for four, beyond the anger of God to the generation of the wicked; nor doth the Author's consequence stand good, that then we had right and warrant to baptise the children of Turks, Pagans and Indians, (as for one single Apostate, I account him as one single excommunicate Christian in this point) because the Lord's comparison of proportion holdeth in generations of the same kind, and is restricted to the generations within the visible Church, showeth mercy unto thousands of them that love me and keep my Commandments, which must be extended to professed love of a nation that is federally holy. Now Turks and Indians are neither lovers of God, nor in profession, through federal holiness such; and it is most pregnant against such as confine and imprison the mercy of the Covenant towards poor Infants, to their next immediate parents, and by the Author's interpretation, the thousand generations to which God extendeth mercy, is confined to one, because if the wicked two, the father and mother be violaters of the Covenant, though nine hundreth foregoing generations have been lovers of God, yet the Covenant mercy is interrupted to the innocent Infants, (in this innocent) and they are translated over to the class and roll of the children of Turks and Pagans under the curse and wrath of God for hundreth of generations. The Lord in this having a respect to that people whom he brought out of the Land of Egypt, in whom he fulfilled this promise of showing mercy to many generations, though their nearest parents were grievers of his holy Spirit, and rebellers against him: for Abraham, Isaac and jacob's sake, cannot be so narrow and pinched in mercy to the posterity, as to reduce a thousand generations to one, as this Author would have him to do. 2. It is a hungry extension of mercy, as the Author exponeth it, to Gods extending of thoughts, of redeeming and converting to a thousand generations, which he hath to Turks; for these thoughts of redeeming are from the free and absolute decree of election to glory, but this is an express promise of extending the mercy of the Covenant to a thousand generations, and such as the Lord by necessity of his veracity and faithfulness of covenant, cannot contraveene. 3. The place 1 Cor. 7. is corrupted contrary to the Apostles intent, which is to resolve a case of conscience, whether the believing wife married on a Pagan husband, or a believing husband married on a Pagan wife should divorce and separate, because the seed would seem by God's Law to be unclean, Para 9 2. Paul answereth, if one be holy and profess the faith, the 〈◊〉 is holy, v. 14. whereas if both father and mother were Pagans and heathen, the seed should be unholy, and void of federal holiness, than were the children unclean. But the consequence is frivolous, if both be Pagans, and Heathen, and unbelievers (for so the Author doth well expound the unbelieving husband) than the seed is unclean and void of federal holiness. But it followeth not: Ergo, if both the Christian Parents be excommunicated, and be scandalous and wicked, they are not members of a parishional visible Church, then are the children unclean and void of all federal holiness, and have no right to the seals of the covenant. We deny this connexion, for there be great odds betwixt the children of Turks, and children of excommunicated and scandalous parents. The children of Turks and Heathen are not to be baptised, but the children of excommunicates, are as Turks and Heathen; Ergo, the children of excommunicates are not to be baptised. The Syllogism is vicious in its form; 2. It faileth in its matter, for children of excommunicates, because of the Covenant made with their ancestors, are in Covenant with God, and the children of Turks are not so. The Author addeth, The wickedness of the parents doth not 〈◊〉 the election or redemption, or the Faith of the child: 〈◊〉 a Bastard is reckoned in the Catalogue of believers, He●●●nes 11. 32. Yet a bastard was not admitted to come unto 〈◊〉 Congregation of the Lord to the tenth generation, Deuteronom. ●3. 2. Answ. It is true, the want of baptism is no hazard to the salvation of the child, nor do we urge that the infants of excommunicates, should be baptised, because we think baptism necessary, necessitate medii, as Papists do, but neither we nor Papists, nor any except Anabaptists, and the late Belgi●●e Arminians and Socinians, as a Episcopius disp. priv. 29. Coller. 1. ritum fuisse tantu●n temporarium ex nullo praecepto jesu Christi●surpa●um. Episcopius, b Hen●icus Slatius declare. a per. pag. 53. Henri us S●●tius, c Somnerus Tract. de baptis. Somnerus, d Socinus de baptis. c. 5. par. 53. 55. 57 Socinus deny baptism to be necessary in respect of God's Commandment; and indeed if you urge the constitution of a visible Church, as you do of members called of God, and Saints, not only in external profession, but also in some measure of sincerity and truth, as you do expressly say (e) in this Treatise, we see not how you can hold that Infants can be baptised at all while they come to age, and can give tokens to the Church of their faith, and conversion to God, for if they believe not, you put Gods seal upon a blank, which you think absurd. In the closing of this Section, the Author reasoneth against Godfathers, which are to us of civil use, and no part of baptism: He allegeth, he knoweth not any ground at all to allow a The way of the Churches of Christ in New England, Chap. 3. Sect. 3. faithful man liberty to entitle another man his child, to baptism, only upon a pretence of a promise, to have an eye to his education, unless the child be either borne in his house or resigned to him, to be brought up in his house as his own. I Answer, 1. The Infants of believing Fathers absent in other Lands, upon their lawful callings, are by this holden from the Seal of the Covenant, as if they were the Children of Pagans, for no fault in the Parents. 2. A promise of education in the Christian faith is here made a sufficient ground for baptising an Infant, whereas always before the Author contendeth for an holy profession of faith in both, or at the least in one of the nearest parents, but we know that a friend may undertake the Christian education of the child of an excommunicate person, who is to you as the child of a Pagan, we think, upon such a promise, you could not baptise the child of a Turk: Ergo, excommunicated persons and Turks are not alike, as you say. CHAP. 5. SECT. 1. and 2. T●●●hing the dispensation of the censures of the Church. Author. WE proceed not unto censure, but in case of some known Author of the Treatise of the way of the Churches of Christ in New England. Chap. 5. Sect. 1. offence. Answ. What if a member of your Church do ●how himself in private, to some brethren, to be a non-regenerated person, and so indeed not a member of the visible Church, by your doctrine, he should be excommunicated for non-regeneration, which is against Christ's way, Matth. 18. who will have such sins as, if denied, may be proved by two witnesses, only to be censurable by the Church, else you shall retain such an one, and admit him to profane the Table of the Lord. In this first and second Section I have nothing to examine but what hath been handled already, especially the People's power in Church-affaires hath been fully discussed; only the Author will have the preaching of the word, a worship not pecu●iar to the Church, but common to those who are not in the Church-state at all, and that ordinarily in respect that Indians and Heathens may come and hear the Word, 1 Cor. 14. but this proveth not but that preaching of the word is proper and peculiar to the Church: but there is another mystery here, as from the first chapter, second Section, then preaching of the word is to be performed by gifted persons, yea ordinary preaching for the conversion of Souls, before there be any Pastors in the Church to Preach. Hence is that. Quest. I. Whether conversion of souls to Christ, be ordinarily the proper fruit & effect of the word preached by a sent Pastor; or if it be the 〈◊〉 and effect of the word preached by Pastors not as Pastors, but as 〈◊〉 to preach, and so of all persons not in office, yet gifted to preach? The Churches of New-England in their Answers to the thirty two Questions, sent by the Ministers of Old- England, Answer Quaest 29. by certain Theses, which I set down and examine. 1. The conversion of sinners followeth not always the preaching of every one that is in lawful office of the Ministry. 2. When conversion doth follow, it doth not follow from the preaching of a Pastor, or by virtue of his office, but by the blessing of God. Answ. 1. The former reason is most weak, conversion followeth not always upon Christ's preaching, and the Apostles their preaching did not always produce conversion: but I pray you because they were not efficacious means of conversion, doth it follow, Therefore they were not ordinary means? I think not. 2. The second is as weak, Conversion followeth not upon the preaching of a Pastor by virtue of his office, but by the blessing of God. What? Ergo, Pastoral preaching is not an ordinary mean of conversion? neither doth conversion follow upon preaching, by virtue of the gift, no more then by virtue of the office, but by the blessing of God: Ergo, neither is preaching of a gifted man, the ordinary mean of conversion, as you teach, nor are the Sacraments by this reason, ordinary means to seal up our communion with Christ, and the graces of the Covenant, for Sacraments are efficacious means only by the blessing of God, and not by virtue of the office; We do not hold that the office hath influence, either in the word preached, or in the Souls of people, but it followeth not that the Pastoral preaching of these who are sent, Rom. 10. 14. Esa. 40. 9 and that with Pastoral authority, are not the means appointed of God for conversion, but here they confound means, actu primo, lawful and ordinary, with means efficacious, and, in actu secundo, blessed with success from the Lord. This we acknowledge (say they) that sound conversion of sinners, argueth that the instruments of such conversion were sent of God, Rom. 10. 14, 15. Jer. 23. 32. yet we dare not say that God's word is not effectual to conversion, unless the man that speaketh it be a Minister, that is, a Church-officer, the contrary being evident, Joh. 4. 10. Act. 8. 4. Matth. 11. 19, 21. 1 Cor. 7. 16. and to say so, mere to limit the Spirit of God, where he hath not limited himself. 1 Cor. 12. 11. 1 Cor. 1. 27. 29. Answ. 1. Sending Rom. 10. 14. is an official and authoritative sending, not only a bare gifting and habilitating of the man sent, for it is such a sending, as the sending of Prophets, whose feet were pleasant upon the mountains, and the watchmen who lift up their voice, Esa. 52. 7, 8. Nah. 1. 15. and this is not a naked gifting, but besides they were commanded by God to speak, and so had authority: now though private Christians be instruments of conversion, yet it follows no ways, that they are preachers sent of God, in the sense that the Scripture speaketh, Rom. 10. 14. 15. and far less in the sense that is spoken, Jer. 23. 32. for it is said these who prophecy lies in God's name, and were not sent, shall profit the people nothing; now the sending denied to be in these false teachers, is not only want of gifts, but want of an authoritative command of God to preach, as is clear, v. 21. I have not sent these Prophets, yet they ran; I have not spoken unto them, yet they prophesied. When it is said, The word of the Lord came to Jeremiah, to Ezekiel, etc. the meaning is not that Jeremiah was gifted only, but beside 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, an hability to prophecy, the Lord gave him 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, authority by a special Commandment, saying, Go speak, Lo I have sent thee, etc. Now this immediate Commandment from God himself speaking from heaven, or in a vi●on, is not in the Churches of the New Testament, yet God speaketh by the Elders and Presbytery to Pastors now, 1 Tim. 4. 14. 1 Tim. 5. 22. Tit. 1. 9 10. except you I say with Arminians and Socinians, there is no need now of the Churches sending, all gifted may preach the Gospel, without any Church-call. 3. This consequence is loose, conversion of sinners argueth that the instruments were sent of God; Ergo, the Preaching of Pastors ●● Pastor's is not the ordinary mean of conversion. Lastly, We deny not but private Christians may be instruments of conversion, but the places which afterward shall be examined, prove not the point, that Pastoral preaching, in a constitute Church, is not the ordinary mean, but your Doctrine is that Pastors as Pastors do only confirm those in the faith, who are already converted, but that they convert none at all, as Pastors, but that the only ordinary means of conversion, and of planting of men in formal state of Church-membership are men gifted to preach, and not Pastors by office; Sending (say they) sometimes importeth but an act of God's providence, whereby men are gifted, and permitted to do such a thing, though they be not commanded of God, nor do in obedience to God, but for sinisterous ends, so God sent the King of Assyria, Esay 10. 6. 2 King. 24. 2. So they that preached of envy, Phil. 1. 15. are sent: So Balaam was sent. 2. Some are sent who beside gifts and permission, have also a sincere mind to employ their gifts, God by his Spirit stirring them up, 1 Joh. 7. 18. 3. Those are sent of God, who have both gifts, permission, and a sincere mind to employ their gifts, and withal a lawful calling to the office: if men want a lawful calling to that office of the ministry, and are not sent of God the third way, yet may they preach and convert souls, as sent of God, the first and second way. Answ. 1. There should have been places of Scripture to prove that Balaam and the enviers of Paul, Phil. 1. 15. who preached Christ of envy, were sent the first way: for Balaam prophesied of the Star of jacob, as one lawfully sent and a called Prophet, as all other Prophets, (though he was not a gracious man) for Numb. 24. 2. Balaam saw the visions of God, and the Spirit of God came upon him. 4. He saw the visions of the Almighty, and fell in a trance: and Isaiah, jeremiah, Ezekiel had no other calling as Prophets, though in zeal and simplicity of prophesying, they differed from Balaam: and Paul would never have rejoiced that these teachers preached Christ, Phil. 1. 15. if they had without all calling of God preached Christ; doubtless they had a calling of the Church to preach, except you think that none have a calling, as called pastors, but those who are converted. 3. By this distinction you hold that men may be ordinary Preachers gifted, and so sent of God to preach, and may and do convert souls, though they have no calling of the Church; which unsound doctrine the Arminians and Socinians hold this day: for they teach, 1. That all gifted persons may preach the Gospel, and convers souls. 2. That all who are gifted to preach, are sent and lawfully called to preach, though the Church do not call them. 3. That now since the Gospel is sufficiently revealed, and the Apostles are dead, there is required no calling of the Church, to make one a Lawful minister: And your Arguments they have, and you have their Arguments to evert all ministry and order of calling of pastors; so teach the Arminians, and so Episcopius; disp. 26. thes. 4. 5. Necessitatem missionis jam cessare dicendum est, ac Episcopius. p●inde fas licitumve esse homini Christian●, non tantum in magno necessitatis casu, aut in enormi ecclesiae defectione, sed quovis etiam tempore v●rbum divinum docere, si ad docendum sit idoneus, & qui doari v●lunt, id serio & obnixè postulant. So do the Socinians, A● lr. Roddeccius in not is in lib. Smiglecii pag. 3. Confitemur & olim ●●l●sie ministros vocari potuisse, imo vocatos fuisse, & nunc etiam voc●ri posse; in vero id quod olim factum est, & hodie fieri potest, ad m●nus ministrorum requiratur, hoc vere & perpetuo quaeritur; Cat●ch si● Raccoviensis, cap. 11. 305. 306. Cum per hujusmodi, ex praes●ripto Apostolicae doctrinae constituuntur, & in his duabus rebus praest ●ut, vitae innocontiâ & ad docendum aptitudine, propter ejusmodi constitutionem apud omnes authoritatem suam merito in venire debent. Smaleius in refut. thes. D. Frantzii parte 2. disp. 4. pag. 377. Hoc enim in questione est, an hujusmodi constitutio sit prorsus necessaria ad constituendum verbi dei ministrum: hoc autem nos negamus, nihil enim tale, (quod caput reiest) in descriptione eorum, quae ad episcopum constituendum requiritur, nec uspiam judicatum vel levissime videmus, cum qui talis sit, postea vocari, & mittiab aliquo debere, imo posse aliquem per se munus tale concupiscere vel aff●ctare manifeste scriptum legimus. Theoph. Nicolaid. in refut. tract. de miss. ministrorum cap. 10. pag. 80, 87. 88 Munus docendi non tam est honos, quam labour, laborem autem semper sumere linnet, h●ores non item: & pag. 91. Docet Paulus rect● id fieri posse, unumqu●mque munus docendi aggredi, m●do ad id aptus sit, quod aggredi cogitat, vel cupit. Quest. II. Whether or not all gifted persons may preach the Word of God publicly, and ordinarily, for the gathering in of souls to Christ, though they be destitute of all official authority, or Church calling to that ministry? Our brethren hold all gifted persons not in office may ordinarily preach publicly; So teach Mr. Robinson in a Treatise entitled The people's i'll t for prophesying, the Arguments of which book I shall shortly discuss. Hence these considerations. 1. Distinct. There is one power of public preaching in a Church not constitute, and another in a Church constitute; gifted persons in extraordinary cases, where a Church is not planted, may publicly preach, but the case is otherwise in a Church constituted. 2. Distinct. Pastors not only as gifted men, but as Pastors are ●illed of God, for the conversion of souls, and the visible Church is Christ's visible kingdom, and visible society, to make persons members of the invisible Church of the first borne. 3. Dist. Public preaching, as it is the ordinary mean of saving such as believe, is proper and peculiar to the Church, both subjectively, as being only in the Church, and objectively as being only exercised on the Church members, pierce, but upon Pagans' by accident. 4. Dist. There is a call to an habitual and ordinary prophesying, here is required not only a calling by gifts, but also a collation of authority to the office, either immediately by God, or mediately by the Church, and there is a call to some particular or occasional acts of exhorting, as the Martyrs and Stephen are called to give confession of their faith, and a King in battle, to exhort his army, or a Prince his Subjects to piety, and to this latter there is no other call required, but the place and profession of the exhorter, though he be not by office a Pastor. 5. Dist. There is a formal calling of the Church, as the laying on of the hands of the Elders, and a virtual and interpretative calling or tacit approbation of the Church, when learned men of eminent gifts, not in office, do write Commentaries, Sermons on Canonic Scriptures, and tractates refuting heresies; to this the tacit approbation of the Church is required, but these have not ordinary pastoral care, nor are they the ordinary converters of souls to Christ, as the pretended Prophets of Separatists are. 6. Dist. Gifted Christians may occasionally admonish, warn, rebuke and exhort one another; 1. privately; 2. without any Pastoral care of souls as they are a Church, but only as they occasionally converse with them; 3. Excommuni officio charitatis, by the Law of nature, charity tying one member to help another; 4. Not authoritatively by special office; but all authority here is from the word occasionally spoken. The Pastor is to preach, 1. Publicly; 2. To the Church as the Church. 3. With a pastoral obligation to all alike, whether he converse daily with them or not. 4. Not only by the tie of common Charity, but by a virtue of a special office. 5. With authority both objective from the word, and official from his charge. 6. And is obli●ged to separate himself for this charge allanerly, as a watchman who must give an account in a special manner to Jesus Christ. Our brethren hold that the ordinary and established way in the Church of Christ to the end of the world, is that all that are converted are made fit materials for the visible Church by private Christians, as gifted of God to preach publicly, and to gather a true Church to Christ. 2. That none unconverted, as they are such, are under any pastoral care of Christ's officers. 3. That Pastors as Pastors, do convert none, but only confirm those who are already converted; and that if Pastors shall convert any to Christ, it is by accident, as we say, with Aristotle, Musicus curate aegrotum, a Musician cureth a sick man, which he doth no ways as a musician: for Pastors do convert as gifted persons, and not as Pastors, and conversion of souls is no proper Church-work, but accidental to Pastors. But that none can take on him lawfully to preach the Word publicly, in the established and ordinarily approved way of Christ for the conversion of souls, but he who is not only gifted, but also called thereunto by God and his Church, I prove. 1. Argum. If faith come ordinarily by hearing a Pastor sent of God, and such Pastors as are called messengers with good news, and watchmen not only gifted, but also instructed with authority of office, then are not gifted persons, because gifted, called of God to be ordinary converters of souls. But the former is true, Rom. 10. 14. for they are 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, and of these the Prophet saith, Isa. 52. 8. Thy watchmen shall lift up the voice. And it is thus confirmed, That Gospel which is the power of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 God and the wisdom of God to those who are saved, is the Gospel preached by such as are sent both to preach and baptise: but 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the Gospel preached by gifted men, only out of office, is not the Gospel preached by those who are sent both to preach and to baptise: Ergo, the Gospel preached by only gifted persons void of all office, is not the power and wisdom of God to those who are saved. The assumption is granted, for gifted men out of office may not lawfully baptise. I prove the proposition, 1 Cor. 1. 23. but we preach Christ, etc. That this [we] is to be understood of those who are sent both to preach and baptise, is clear, vers. 17. But Christ sent me not to baptise, but to preach, that is, he sent me not to baptise principally, Ergo, in one and the same Patent from heaven, Paul was warranted to preach, and to baptise, as one commission is given, Matth. 28. 19 to teach all Nations, and to baptise, yea it is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 than it is such a preaching as must be backed with the sealing by baptism; also if he had meant that preaching was not peculiar to Apostles and other successors, he should have said. But yet preach Christ crucified, etc. for Separatists do teach, with Socinians, that there was a multitude of unofficed Prophets at Corinth. Robinson, as if he had learned in Socinus his school, saith to Robinson, the people's pea for the exercise of prophesying against Mr. Yates, Arg. 2. pag. 6. this, But for the word sending which he so much urgeth, it must be known, that all who teach lawfully are sent by Christ, in respect of their personal gifts and graces, so ordinary officers are not sent by those who appoint them to minister, as was the extraordinary Apostles sent by Christ who appointed them. Sending importeth a passeth of the sent from the sender to another, and so the Apostles were sent by Christ to preach the Gospel to the Jews and Gentiles, and so are not Pastors sent by the Church (which calleth them) unto others, but to minister unto herself, after the exercise of public ministry is ended, the Church do publicly exhort and require, as the Rulers do Paul and Barnabas, Act 13. 14. that if they have any word of exhortation, they would say on. Answ. Surely Mr. Yates, and we both have much for us to urge the necessity of sending, except men would run unsent, and so be guilty of intrusion, for so doth the Scripture, Exod. 28. 1. Take to thee Aaron thy brother, etc. Numb. 1. 49. Thou shalt appoint the Levits over the Tabernacle of the Testimony, and over all the vessels, and all that belongeth thereunto: so saith Hezekiah to the Levites, The Lord hath chosen you to stand before him, and to minister unto him: Esay 6. 8. And I heard the voice of the Lord saying, Whom shall I send, and who shall go for me? 9 and he said, go and say to this people, Jerem. 1. 4. And the Word of the Lord came unto me, saying, v. 5. Host 1. 1. and the Word of the Lord came to me, Heb. 1. 1. Joh. 1. 6. There was a man sent of God, Luk. 3. 2. Matth. 10. 5. Those twelve Jesus sent forth, Isa. 48. 16. Isa. 61. 1. Heb. 5. 4. Joh. 20. 21. Matth. 28. 19 Mark 16. 15. Rom. 11. 1. Rom. 1. 1. Gal. 1. 1. Act. 14. 13. Paul and Barnabas ordained Elders in every Church, 1 Tim. 4. 14. 1 Tim. 5. 22. 2 ●im. 2. 2, 3. Tit. 1. 9, 10. If you urge not sending, you go from the Scriptures. 2. He saith all who lawfully teach are sent of God in respect of personal gifts. But 1. where doth the holy Ghost speak so in the Scripture? All then who have gifts to be Kings and Magistrates are sent of God to the throne and bench? what bloody confusions would hence fellow? Yea if they have gifts to be Kings and do not all fly to the throne, they resist the calling of God, and sin in so doing, as Jonah did, and hide their Lord's Talon. 2. Women in whose lips is the Law of grace, Prov. 31. 26. and who are to teach the younger women, Tit. 2. 3. 4. are so sent of God to preach; O but (say they) they are forbidden to preach. I answer, true, then (to be gifted to preach:) is not all one with this (to be sent to preach) for to be sent to preach of God, is to be commanded to preach. If then women be sent in respect of gifts, they are commanded to preach, and that by God, and yet God's Word forbiddeth them to preach; Ergo, that same will of God revealed doth command and forbid one and the same thing, which is absurd. Ergo, to be gifted is not to be sent to preach. 3. You here clearly side with Arminians and So●inians, for Episcopius a Episcop. disp. 26. 4 5. requireth no more to preaching, but that the man be idoneous and apt to teach. And b Theophil. Nicolaides tract. demissiono minist. cap. 10. cap. 88 Theoph Nocolaides, that there be in him an holy life and aptitudo ad docendum alios, aptitude to teach others. 4. Arminians and Socinians teach that the sending, Rom. 10. 14. and other places are meant of extraordinary sending which is now ceased, since the Apostles are dead. So (c) Episcopius d Remonstr. in confess. cap. 21. sect. 2. 4. and Arminians in their confession. e Socinus tract. de ecclesia cap. 1. pag. 140. Socinus f Ostorodiut Inst. cap 42. Raddecius in not. Simgle●ii pag. 5. ipse textus doce● de solis apostoli● sermonem esse. Ostorodius expound the place, Rom. 10. 14. Paulum de suo duntaxat tempore loqui, and so there is no need of sending now: and Robinson sympathising with them, saith, Ordinary officers are not sent now by the Church, as the Apostles were then sent of Christ; but the professors of Leyden g Profess. Leyd. eens. confess. cap. 2. sect. 2. 3. refuting the Arminians, say there is a necessity of sending now as there was then, and h Calvinus Comment. in Rom. 10. Calvin, i Beza ann●●. de ministerio vel ordinariovel extraordinary debet intelligi. Beza, k Pareus de ordinaria etiam vocatione debet intelligi. Paraeus accord to this, that Paul speaketh of ordinary calling. 4. The Word of God differenceth the giving of gifts to the ministry, and the giving of authority, and sending authoritative by a lawful calling, the one being collatio 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, the other 〈◊〉, as Matth. 10. 1. Then he called the twelve, and gave them power, and v. 5. their sending and gifting by authority is clear, these twelve he sent out: So Jer. 1. 5. I have separated thee, etc. this is calling and sending, & v. 9 Then the Lord put forth his hand and touched my mouth, this is a giving of gifts, and Isa. 1. 1. Isaiah is gifted when he saw the visions of God, but Chap. 6. 7. he is sent and receiveth authority to go, beside that v. 8, 9 and Job. 20. when Christ breathed upon the Disciples, he giveth them the gifts of the holy Spirit, but when he saith, Go and teach, and as my father sent me, so send I you, he giveth them authority and sendeth them: yea though Prophets did prophesy true things that should come to pass, yet were they false Prophets, De●t. 13. 1, 2. because the Lord sent them not. And for the place, Rom. 10, 14. cited from Isa. 52. though Prophets hearing Isaiah and Jeremiah prophecy of the people's return from Babylon, should prophesy the same that Isaiah and Jeremiah had prophesied, yet not being sent of God, they should have been false Prophets: and after the Spirit is entered unto Ezecbiel, ch. 2. 2. and so he is gifted, yet is there another sending, v. 3. then said the Lord unto me, etc. And might (I pray you) Baruch have preached all his Master Jeremiahs' Prophecies? But I think that should not have made him a Prophet: yea and Christ in whom was all fullness of gifts and grace, Job. 1. 16. Col. 2. 9 yet took not on him to be a Priest of the New Testament till he was called of God, as Aaron, Heb. 5. 4, 5. Job. 1. 18. and Calvin, Musculus, Gualther, expone the Prophets and Pastors, prophesying peace, Isa. 52. to be the Prophets, who not only were gifted to preach, but sent with special authority, to prophesy the people's deliverance out of Babylon. And lastly, by this also have the gifted Prophets a calling of God, to administrate the Sacraments, because, if to be gifted, be to be sent of God, certainly they are gifted to administrate the Sacraments no less then to preach, and so l Arminiani in Apolog. cap. 25. fol. 246. Quid obstat cur in casu necessitatis non potest ● fideli aliquo, infa●s aqua ting●● out inter ●deles cana Domini non celebrari posset? saith the Arminians, with their Socinians, as m Socinus tr●c. de eccles. pag 15. Socinus and n Smalcius disp de minist. sect. 7. Smalcius, If they say, Christ requireth a particular Minister to the Sacraments, but not so to the word: I answer, to pastoral preaching he requireth also a peculiar minister, as our brethren teach, from Act. 20. 28. 1 Pet. 5 4. 5. but to teaching by virtue of a gift any gifted man is sufficient: the same distinction may as well hold that there is a pastoral administration of the Sacraments and a common administration of them by virtue of a gift, yea and o Gerardus tom. 6. loco comm. de ministerio ecclesiastico. c. 3. sect. 1. n. 67. pag. 74. Gerardus observeth well, that to the calling of the ministry belongeth the administration of the Sacraments, as a special part thereof, 1 Cor. 12. 29. Ephes. 4. 11. Jam. 3. 1. 7. yea and if ministers be stewards, 1 Cor. 4. 12. are they not dispensators of the Sacraments, by their office, as of the Word? 5. Robinson giveth for shame a sort of calling to the unofficed Prophets, to wit, that the Church requireth them, if they have a word of exhortation, to speak on, as Act. 13. But 1. not his Church, but the rulers required Paul and Barnabas to speak. 2. The Rulers knew them to be Apostles and Pastors by office, for there were Prophets there, Chap. 14. 1. but the Apostles would have none to preach, as Pastors by office, but such as are proved, and authorized by the Elders, 1 Tim. 3. 10. ch. 4. 14. 1 Tim. 5. 22. 2 Tim. 2. 2, 3. 3. This calling of the Church is only for order's cause in the constitute Church, but a thing not necessary by divine institution, and so the Socinians. So Smalcius p Smalcius in refut. thes. Franzii par. 2. disp. 4. pag. 377. Non negamus ex ist a consuctu●●ine primitivae ecclesiae Apost●licae consequii ●llud etiam nunc fieri posse— sed hoc est in questione, an ejusm●di constitutio sit prorsus necessaria ad constituendum verbi dei ministerium. teach us that the Churches sending and calling in the Apostolic Church was a custom, 〈◊〉 decorum arbitramur (saith Smalcius) u● id observaretur; and and so saith q Andr. Raddecius in notis ad lib. Smiglecii pag. 3. Andr. Raddecius, and the r Remonst. in Apolog. cap. 21. sol. 227. missionem esse necessariam concedimus necessitate ordinis & decori. Arminians have also the same distinction: But this place approveth not that every by person (so to speak) might preach in the Jews Synagogues. 2. Argum. If Christ ascending on high led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men, some to be Apostles and some Pastors and Doctors, and that for the gathering of Christ's body, and if some, not all are Prophets, 1 Cor. 12. 29. then hath God appointed Pastors in office to be the ordinary gatherers of souls in to Jesus Christ, and if this be not said, when he ascended on high, he made all private Christians the jure, preachers to edify publicly the whole Church, and if any be not gifted, it is their own fault, for they are obliged to be such. 3. Argum. He who Matth. 10. 42. contradistinguisheth the prophet and the righteous man, as different persons, and having different rewards, he doth not acknowledge a righteous man to be a Prophet, hoc ipso, because he is a righteous man. But Christ doth contradistinguish them, v. 41. He that receiveth a Prophet in the name of a Prophet, shall receive a Prophet's reward, and he that receiveth a righteous man, in the name of a righteous man, shall receive a righteous man's reward; Ergo, Christ acknowledgeth them to differ. Now if a righteous man, hoc ipso, because he is a righteous man, and a member of the Church, should exercise these same specifice acts with a Prophet, that is, if he should publicly preach to convert souls, he should by this place be a Prophet, and the reward of a Prophet should be given to the receiver of the righteous man, yea and more than the reward of a Prophet, in respect he is both a righteous man, and a Prophet. 4. To all Prophets a special promise of God's assistance and presence is made in the word, as Jerem. 1. 18, 19 Matth. 28. 20 Luk. 21. Verse 14. 15. Act. 9 Verse 17. But to these who are not prophets by office, there is no such promise in the word; Ergo, 5. All that are sent of God as ordinary converters of souls from the kingdom of darkness to the kingdom of Jesus Christ, must seek out fit words, as the Preacher did, Eccles. 12. 11. 12. he must convince and judge the hearer, and make manifest the secrets of the heart, as 1 Cor. 14. 24, 25. he must cut the word aright, as a Timothy, 2 Tim. 2 15. he must give every one of the house meat in due season, Matth. 24. 46. he must know and try the ways of the people, Jerem. 11. 18. When he seeth the sword coming, he must warn the wicked to turn from his evil way, Ezech. 3. 18, 19 He must watch for souls, as one who is to give an account, Heb. 13. 17. He must exhort the people to be reconciled to God, and this he must pray and request in Christ's stead, 2 Cor. 5. 20. And he must give himself wholly to reading, 1 Tim. 4. 15, 16. And not entangle himself with any 〈◊〉 calling, 2 Tim. 2. 4. All these cannot be done by Prophets not in office. And all these are duties of Pastors in office, and to tie private Christians, who are commanded to attend their own callings were unreasonable, and repugnant to the Word of God. The proposition is clear; no man can preach, but he who must give himself to reading, and must watch and speak to the present case of the hearers; but especially such Preachers as are the only ordinary converters of souls to Christ, must give warning that the unrighteous die not in his sin: now to say that all these were duties incumbent to merchants, artificers, fashioner's, carpenters, cloathiers, were to mock the word of God, and to say, these and these only were the gatherers of a Church, and Kingdom to Christ, were unknown Divinity. 6. All Prophets are set down in Christ's roll of lawful officers. 2. The rules and canons for the right exercise of their ministry is set down, especially seeing these pretended prophets are presumed to be the greatest part of the visible Church. 3. The only ordinary gainers of souls to Christ's kingdom and visible Church, even to the second coming of Jesus Christ. 4. Seeing the Lord doth so often complain of idle Pastors, of dumb dogs, by whose sleeping, souls are loosed. Now this Argument for the proposition seemeth most reasonable. In the old Testament Priests, Levites, Prophets; and all the edifying officers are set down there, and so are the officers and canons anent their government set down in the New Testament, Eph. 4. 11. 1 Cor. 12. 28. 1 Tim. 3. 2 Tim. 2. Act. 2. 17, 18. Io●l 2. 28. Act. 20. 28. But no such things are written in the old or new Testament of gifted Prophets not in office. 7. All lawful officers have power authoritatively from jesus Christ to remit and to retain sins, by the preaching of the Word. But Preachers out of office have no such power, Ergo, Preachers out of office, are not lawful Preachers. The proposition is, joh. 20. 21. The assumption is evident, for where are they sent as the Father sent his Son Christ? and that promise is made only to the Apostles, and to their successors, Prophets without office are not the successors of the Apostles. a Robinson People's plea, Arg. 1. pag. 2, 3. Robinson saith, the commission there given is peculiar to the Apostles only, and confirmed by the miraculous inbreathing of the holy Ghost, and by them to be dispensed principally to unbelievers, of all which nothing is common to ordinary officers, but else where, this power is given to the whole Church, Matth. 16. 17. 1 Cor. 5. 2 Cor. 6. 6. Yea to every faithful brother, Matth. 16. 18. Ch. 18. 15. Luk. 17. 3. This is that which Anabaptists teacheth (as b Chemnitius loc. come. part. 3. cap. de Eccles. pag. 314. Chemnitius saith) and the very doctrine of c Ostorodius in Instit. cap. 42. pag. 438. Ostorodius, d Nicolaides in defence. tract. Socini de ecclesia & ministerio, cap. 1. pag. 146. Nicolaides, e Socinus tract. de eccles pag. 14. Socinus, but except the miraculous inbreathing of the holy Ghost, there is nothing here peculiar to the Apostles only: for the losing and retaining of sin, is nothing but binding and losing of the sins, and this is nothing but the forgiving and retaining of sin by the preaching of the word, and censures of the Church, and that binding and losing, Matth. 16. is not given to the whole Church of believers, for the Text saith no such thing, but power of the keys is given to Peter, that is, to the church-guide the successors of Peter. 2. Authoritative power of forgiving of sin, is not Matth. 18. said to be ratified in heaven, but only when the Church doth bind and lose; and forgiving, Luk. 17. is betwixt sister and sister, who have not power to bind and lose in heaven. 8. All Prophets are either ordinary or extraordinary, as is clear in God's Word; extraordinary now are not in the Church, and the ordinary Prophets now are not gifted to preach the Word, except as Timothy, from their youth they have been trained up in the Scriptures, and have learning, sciences, knowledge of the tongues, if he would be a man able to teach others, 2 Tim. 2. 3. 1 Tim. 3. he must meditate, read, and give himself wholly to these things, 1 Tim. 3. 15, 16. and so must leave his calling contrary to the Apostle his commandment, 1 Cor. 7. 20, 21, 22. 1 Thess. 4. 11. Ephes. 4. 28. but if he have a gift for public preaching, he is to separate himself for it, seeing a gift is a token of God's separation. Quest. III. Whether the Arguments of Mr. Robinson for the prophesying People's plea for prophesying, pag. 34. of private persons, not in office, do strongly conclude? I shall set them down in order and discuss them. If a Bishop must be apt to teach, than he must be tried before he be● admitted to the office. Ergo, while be is o●t of office he must prophesy. Answ. This Argument concludeth not the Question, for by as good reason the sons of the Prophets or young Prophets, who behoved to exercise their gift, as 1 Sam. 10. 5. 2 King. 2. 7. 2 King. 4. 1. 1 King. 20. 35. before they be fully received as Prophets, must be prophets and officers not in office differing from Prophets in office, even as their lay Prophets are different from Pastors, but an apprentice of a trade is not a different tradesman from the master to whom he serves as apprentice, but he is only different from him in degree. But their Lay-Prophets are tradesmen, not sons of the Prophets, not aiming at the pastoral charge, but ordinary officers for converting of souls, and do differ from Pastors, as those who are non-Pastors, differ from Pastors. Robinson. If the Lords gifting of Eldad and Medad, Numb. 11. 29. with the spirit of prophesying, enabling them to prophecy, and made them extraordinary Prophets, why should not by due proportion an ordinary gift enabling a man to an ordinary prophecy, serve also to make him an ordinary Prophet? Now Moses in wishing that all the people were Prophets, wisheth as well the use, as possession of the gift. Answ. The Jews say that Eldad and Medad were of the 70. Elders, upon whom was poured part of that spirit of prophecy, that was on Moses, and they say they were written in the 70. papers, but not elected, because they drew the papers 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 a part and not 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Senex, but it is not like Joshu● would have envied if they had been now Judges, or that Moses would have likened them unto the people. However, prophets they were. But both the Antecedent is false, and the consequence nulle, for if you mean by the Lords gifting of Eldad and Medad, a naked and a bare revealing to them of the visions of God, without an impulsive commandment from God, setting them on action to prophesy, (this impulsion is an authoritative sending and calling,) the antecedent is false, for that gifting of them only made them able, but not formally authorized Prophets: but if the gifting of them did include both the gift and the command of God, to use the gift, as certainly it did, now the consequence is null, for the naked giving of an ordinary gift, except God by himself, and now by the authority of his Church, command the use of the gift, no gifted man, because gifted, is by and by a Prophet, but he must have a commandement ecclesiastic now to preach, as Eldad and Medad had impulsive commandment to prophecy; and if any be gifted by an ordinary way as Eldad and Medad was extraordinarily, than they are to be thrusted out to the pastoral calling, and none but a fleshly man will envy them. Robinson, 2 Chron. 17. 7. Jehos●aphat sent his Princes to preach or teach in the cities of judah, and with them the Levites, so the 70. Interpreters, so Pagnine, so jerom, and the English translation: Ergo, Princes are Prophets not in office, who may teach. Answ. 1. Doctor Alexander Colveill my reverend colleague, and as learned, so well experienced in the Hebrew, saith that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is here taken for 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and noteth the accusative case, and is to be Plea pag. 39 39 read; And he sent the Princes, as Buxtorfius noteth, Thesaur. l. 1. e. 12. and this Chaldaisme is to be seen in these books of the Chronicles written after the Captivity, as 2 Chron. 5. 13. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that they might praise Jehovah, and Chap. 32. 17. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 he writ letters also, to rail on the Lord, and so the parallel place, 2 King. 19 4. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and the place, as the Doctor citeth, is well exponed by R. Solomon Iarc●i in his Commentary 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that is, it was proper to the Priests and Levites 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to teach & instruct, as it is written, Deut. 24. 28. according to all that the Priests and Levites shall teach you, do ye; but the Princes went with them lest they should have rebelled against their words, that they might compel them to obey, etc. the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in pihel signifieth this, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in kall, didicit, in pihel 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 he caused him to learn, Dan. 1. 3, 4. Nabuchadnezzar commanded also Penaz 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to teach them learning and the language of Chaldea; that honourable Courtier was not a Schoolmaster to teach the children of the captivity himself, but he did it by others. The King of Syria saith to the King of Israel 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 thou shall cure Naaman of his leprosy; the Maid exponed it, thou shalt cure him by another, Elisha shall cure him. Pilate scourged Jesus, but Livius saith, the Judge said to a burrio, i. Lictor, colliga manus: so Deut. 31. 22. Moses therefore writ this song the same day, and taught it, v. 19 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 teach them this song, and put it in their mouth. It was impossible that Moses in his own person, could teach the people, and put this song in their mouth, therefore he behoved to teach them by the Priests and Levites, as 24. 25. 2. The Hebrews may read so, but he sent to his princes, for the letter 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is a note of the accusative case, of the dative, of the genitive, or of the accusative case with a certain motion as 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to David, or of David. Valet Haebraeis (inquit Schindlerus) ad, in, vel 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 super, and it noteth a motion to a thing, Gen. 2. 22. & aedificavit, he made the rib in a woman 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 jud. 8. 27. and Gideon made it in an Ephod 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 2 Sam. 4. They anointed David 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to be King. Then it must be read, he sent to the Princes, Benchail, etc. to teach in the Cities of judah, v. 8. and with them he sent Levites, v. 9 and they taught in judah: there is not the least signification in the Text that the Princes taught. Robinson. Princes and judges are to open and expone the Law by which they govern, else they govern with tyranny. Answ. Judges are to convince the thief and the murderer, 1. In a coactive way, not in an ecclesiastic way. 2. As these sins are troublesonie and hurtful to the State and Commonwealth. 3 That others may fear to hurt the State by the like sins, not that the malefactors may be converted to God, and their souls may be saved; but your lay-Prophets simpliciter, not in ordine ad paenam, are the only ordinary converters of souls. Robinson. There is an excellent Sermon (saith he) of jel oshaphats to the judges, 2 Chron. 19 6. and to the Levites, 9 10. and a divine prayer, 8. 20. and Hezekiah hath an excellent Sermon to the Priests and Levites, in the very Temple, 2 Chron. 29. 4, 5. And Nehemiah taught the people the Law of the Lord: Kings are Shepherds and feeders, not only by government, but also by instruction. Answ. 1. These Sermons of jehoshaphat and Hezekiah were first in time of extraordinary defections, when the Priests (whose it were to teach the people) were corrupted and turned dumb dogs. 2. They were Sermons of Prophetical instinct and divine impulsions, as the very stile of them cleareth, and therefore cannot warrant Christian Princes to be ordinary Prophets, except you make the King a national Pastor over Pastors, and two thousand Congregations; for if, as Prince, he be their Pastor, he is equally Pastor and teacher to all these Congregations, and he must be as Prince, obliged to be a Prophet to convert all: How exclude they a Pastor of Pastors and a diocesian prelate, who introduce a national Pastor? Yea how deny we a Pope, if the King carry both the swords, both of the spirit as a Prophet, and that ordinarily, by his calling to feed souls, and the civil sword to take vengeance upon evil doers? for whosoever preacheth the word of God as a Prophet, hath the keys of the Kingdom of heaven committed unto him, to bind and lose, to remit and retain sins on earth, and in heaven, for the preached Gospel is the keys of the kingdom, as is the power of Church censures. Then must the Kings have both keys of Church and State, and what hindereth but they admit the King as King, and a national Pastor, to be the head of the Church under Christ. 3. Consider the King as a Christian and gifted with learning, he is parens patriae, and public nurse father of the Church, and may occasionally upon some extraordinary exigent, at the meeting of the States, or when his armies are going out to battle, make use of the Word of God, to exhort them to general duties of Religion, and Justice, and to be prepared for meeting with eternity and judgement; and this he doth as a Christian father, his subjects being his children: but what is this to infer that the King as King is a Prophet, and an ordinary feeder of souls ex officio, by office, and that by knowledge and instruction, as Robinson saith, and an ordinary converter of souls, and such a Prophet as doth preach in the Church ordinarily, to the edifying of the Church, and conviction and conversion of Infidels, and gathering of a people to God, as they say of their Prophets out of office, 1 Cor. 14. 4, 5. 12. 23, 24, 25. 31. And upon the same ground a King who hath the spirit of adoption, may publicly pray, as Jeboshaphat did for the Lord of hosts his presence, to go out with his Armies against the enemies of the Gospel, but à speciei positione ad generis positionem male sequitur, he may be the people's mouth to God in such an exigence, and he may give a word of exhortation anent duties general of good subjects; Ergo, he is an ordinary Prophet, for the ordinary preaching of the Gospel to all his Subjects; it is a loose and vain collection. Lastly, Nehemiah a Prince taught the people, saith he. I answer, Nehemiah was a Prophet and Author of Canonic Scripture, as was Solomon, and therefore his teaching proveth not the point, Nehem. 1. v. 1. Nor can I find where Nebemiah preached or prophesied to the people at all, but that Ezra the Scribe, Nehem. 8. and the Levites, Chap. 8. 〈◊〉 9 (which Robinson citeth without warrant) did instruct and ●each the people. Robinson. And if it were not (saith he) the received order in Pag. 38, 39 Israel of old for men out of office to speak and teach in public, how did Scribes, Pharisees and Lawyers teach publicly among the Jews, of whom yet many were not Levites, or Churchmen, but indifferently of any tribe? Phil. 3. 5. and how was jesus admitted to dispute in the Temple with the Doctors, Luk. 2. 46. and to preach in the Synagogues, Matth. 9 35. Luk. 4. 16, 17. and how were Paul and Barnabas desired, if they had any word of exhortation, to say on? Act. 13. 14. 15. For the rulers acknowledged Christ and Paul for no extraordinary Praphets, but only admitted them to the use of their gifts. Answ. 1. It is great ignorance, if you think Scribes, Pharisees and expounders of the Law were not Prophets, because they were not of the Tribe of Levi, for Priests behoved only to be of the Tribe of Levi, but Prophets, as jeremiah and others, were extraordinarily raised up of God out of any tribe, as Calvin well observeth, and all versed in Scripture, and that they were teachers in office is clear, Matth. 23. 2. They Calvin praelect. in jerem. 1. 1. sit in Moses his chair, v. 13. 14. etc. and the office of teaching, though abused, is also ascribed by Christ, to the expounders of the Law, Luk. 11. 46. and what is said of Pharisees in taking away the key of knowledge, is said of them, v. 52. 2. Christ's ask of questions, and that when he was 12. years of age, all wondering at his learning, Luk. 2. 42. was no act of prophesying: and granting it had been the practice of the jewish Church to admit a child of twelve years to preach in the Temple, and to admit hand over head, tradesmen, and all to prophesy in the Temple, it is an Argument from their corrupt practice, à facto ad jus, and no more a rule for the preaching of fashioner's, cloathiers, mariners, in the Temple, than the Jews their taking up stones in the Temple to stone Christ: and it is known that Christ did not publicly prophesy in the Synagogues till he was baptised (as all the learned think) and while his name and fame spread abroad, that a great Prophet was arisen, Luk. 3. 21, 22, 23. Luk. 4. 14, 15, 16. Yea and the Pharisees knew him to be a teacher sent of God, joh. 3. 2. And all the people took him to be a Prophet, and therefore the rulers feared to apprehend him, and his doctrine and miracles got him the name of a Prophet sent of God, and Paul and Barnabas were known to be teachers in office, else the rulers would not have desired a word of exhortation, for they did not invite strangers promiscuously to prophesy, and this you only say, but do not prove, and is more for us nor against us. Robinson allegeth a place out of jeremiah, 50. 3. 4. where it Pag. 39 is said, That Israel and judah in a spiritual conference shall encourage ●●● another (as Calvin saith) to repentance, and to join themselves to the true Church; which is nothing for public prophesying, for thus much private Christians, yea all that fear God, women not excepted, may do in Christian conference, as is clear, Zach. 8. 21. Mal. 3. 16. Psal. 42. 4. Esa. 2. 1, 2, 3. Heb. 3. 13. Heb. 10. 23, 24, 25. The fourth place which he bringeth is, Matth. 10. v. 1. ●. 6. Christ sent out the twelve Disciples to preach the Kingdom of Robinson, pag. 39 40. ●eaven to the lost sheep of the house of Israel, but they were not Apostles or Preachers in office, till his resurrection, but only Apostles elect as you say, the major elect; For 1. they received not commission till after Christ's resurrection, joh. 20. 22. 23. Matth. 28. 19, 20. 2. The least in the kingdom of God is greater than john Baptist, for the Christian Church began not properly till his resurrection, and the Apostles being members of the Church of the New Testament, they could not be Apostles in office, before Christ's death, except an adjunct be before the subject, and an officer before the incorporation, whereof he is an officer. 3. They were ignorant of many mysteries of Christ, his death, resurrection, nature of his Kingdom, Matth. 20. etc. which was unbeseeming Apostolic dignity, to the which the highest degree if infallible revelation was requisite. 4. How did they return, as non-resident to remain with Christ till his death? 5. Ephes. 4. 11. Christ till he ascended on high, and not till then, gave some to be Apostles, etc. Hence it must follow that the Disciples were Prophets not in office, and so did preach all this time. Answer. 1. I answer these frivolous reasons. 2. I prove they were Apostles, or at least Prophets in office, before Christ's death and resurrection. And 1. They received not ample and largest commission to go and preach to all nations, before Christ's resurrection, Matth. 28. 19 that is true, but what then? Therefore they received no commission as Pastors in office to preach to Israel, not to the Gentiles or Samaritans, it no ways followeth; yea the contrary, a calling to a Pastoral charge they had, Matth. 10. 5. These twelve did jesus send out, and commanded them saying, Go, etc. And these directions and canons which concern watchmen, 1 Tim. 3. are fully set down, Matth. 10. when they receive both gifts, v. 1. and authority and a calling, v. 5. and special instructions, v. 7, 8, 9, 10. how they should discharge and acquit themselves in their ministry, the like whereof is never given to lay-Prophets (I must crave leave to use this word.) To the 2. I answer, That it is false that Christ died and lived a member of the jewish Church only, he received the Sacrament of baptism as a member of the Christian Church, as he was circumcised and keeped the Law of Moses, to testify he was a member of Jewish Church; and it became him to be a member of both Churches, who was to make of two one people, Ephes. 2. 15. And it is false that the Apostles were adjuncts of the Christian Church; as Apostles invested in their full Apostolic dignity, to preach to all the world, they were parts and members, not adjuncts of the Catholic visible Church of Christians: when Pastors are called adjuncts of the visible Church, it is clear that they are made but accidents of the visible Church, & so that the Ministry is not simply necessary to the visible Church, which is the wicked doctrine of a Remonst. in confess. cap. 22. sect. 1. Arminians, b Episcop. disp. 26. Thesi. 4, 5. Episcopius, c Socinus tract. de ecclesi. per totum & pag. 14, 15. Socinus, Nicolaides, d Nicolaides in desens. Socini tract. de eccles. cap. 1. pag. 118. & the Anabaptists taught the same, as saith e Gastius de catabaptistarum erroribus lib. 1. pag. 35. Gasti●s, But though the Apostles, as invested with full Apostolic authority, be members of the Christian Church, and the New jerusalem be founded upon their doctrine, Ephes. 2. 20. Revel. 21. 14. yet this hindereth not, but as called Apostles and officers, limited to preach to loosed Israel only, Matth. 10. 5, 6, 7. they were members of the Jewish Church, and called Apostles. To the 3. I answer, ignorance of fundamental points not fully proposed and revealed, if there be a gracious disposition of saving faith, to believe these when they shall be revealed, such was as in the Lords Disciples, Matth. 16. 16, 17. Luk. 12. 32. Luk. 22. 28, 29. may well stand with the dignity of young, and as yet limited Apostles, Matth. 10. 5, 6, 7. who had not yet received the holy Ghost, in that measure, Act. 1. 8, 9 that was requisite for Apostles, in their full Apostolic charge, and made infallible penmen of Canonic Scriptures, sent to preach to all the world. To the 4. I answer, They were not non-resident, because they returned to reside with Christ after they had casten out devils, joh. 4. 1, 2. (which your lay-Prophets by your own confession cannot lawfully do) not to be idle, but to learn more, and to be eye and care witnesses of the doctrine, life, death, resurrection and ascension to glory of Christ, It is a vain thing to say that teachers of all Israel, remaining in Israel were non-resident, that is, Pastors not attending their charge. 2 Pet. 1. 16, 17, 18. 1 Joh. 1. 1, 2, 3. Matth. 26. 37, 38, 39 Luk. 24. 50, 51, 52. Joh. 20. 19, 20. Act. 4. 20. which was necessary, that they might preach these things to the world. Nor is a Pastor in his study attending, reading, as 1 Tim. 3. 15, 16. though he be not, then teaching, a nonresident. To the 5. I say, when Christ ascended unto heaven, Ephes. 4. 11. He gave some to be Apostles, etc. but that gifting of Apostles is not to restrict the institution of Apostles, to the precise time of his ascension: for you grant that after the Lord's resurrection, and before his ascension they were ordained Apostles, Matth. 28. 19 Joh. 20. 23. but the full sending of the holy Spirit to Apostles, Evangelists, Pastors and Teachers, is ascribed to his ascension as a special fruit of his ascension, Act. 1. 8, 9 Joh. 16. v. 7, 8, 9 and therefore is their sending called an effect of the holy Spirit. For the second point, Giving and not granting that the Apostles were not Apostles, till after the resurrection, yet will it not follow, that they were lay-Prophets, or Prophets out of office, for they might have been Pastors in office, though not Apostles in office, for there were beside these, others in the Jewish Church, else where were Scribes, Pharisees, Lawyers, Doctors, all sitters in Moses his chair? They were not Apostles sure; what were they then? all teachers out of office? No; If then I prove that the Apostles were teachers in office, though it were granted that they were not Apostles (as in the fullness and plenitude thereof they were not) till Christ arose from the dead, I prove as much as taketh this argument for lay-prophets out of their hands. But that they were not non-officed teachers, but called Apostles or Pastors, I prove. 1. Argum. Judas was chosen one of the twelve and an Apostle, Ergo, far more were the rest. I prove the Antecedent, 1. Act. 20. Let another take his 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, his charge, 2. v. 17. He took part with us (say they) in this 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, in this ministry. 3. Mathias v. 25. was chosen in that place and Apostleship from which Judas fell. Now Lay-Prophets have no official Episcopacy, no Ministry, nor can any chosen in their place said to be chosen to an Apostleship, joh. 6. 7. Have not I chosen you twelve? this choosing was to an Embassage; saith cyril, Augustine, Euthymius, and all our Divines with them. 2. Matth. 10. 2. These are the names of the twelve Apostles▪ v. 5. he send them, What power he giveth to them in respect of all the world to remit and retain sins, job. 20. that he giveth to them toward the house of Israel, v. 11, 12, 13. under the name of offered peace, (Magis & minus non variant speciem) Mark. 13. 14. Mark. 3. 14. he ordained twelve, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, he made twelve to be with him, which he might send to preach, Luk. 9 1. and he called the twelve, and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, be sent them, he took them from their fishing, and made them fishers of men; and Matth. 10. 10. he calleth them workmen worthy of their hire: private Prophets are not gifted, nor sent, nor taken from their callings, nor are they workmen deserving stipend, for that is due to Prophets by office, 1 Cor. 9 13. 14. Gal. 6. 6. 1 Tim. 5. 17. 3. Those who have power to dispense the seals of grace, and to baptise, are not private or unofficed Prophets, but sent of God and in office, as Matth. 28. 19 1 Cor. 1. 17. and a justific. pag. Robinson granteth this, and so do Separatists teach b Confess. of Separatists, Art. 21. . But the Disciples of Christ, before his resurrection, baptised, joh. 4. 2. 4. Those who were witnesses of the life, miracles, doctrine of Christ, and preached the same, and confirmed it by miracles, were pastors. 5. Those who were twelve selected men chosen, Luk. 6. 13. named Apostles, Mark. 9 35. Mark. 10. 32. Luk. 8. 1. to whom the keys of the kingdom were given, Matth. 18. 17, 18, 19 Matth. 16. 19 are not unofficed men. 6. This is a Popish opinion, and to be suspected, for Papists to advance Peter to a Popedom, will have him no Apostle, while after the resurrection, for c Bellarmin. desacr. ord. 1. cap. 9 Bellarmine saith, Imposition of hands is essential to holy orders, and that the Apostle ordained no Presbyters while Christ was risen, and made the Apostles and gave them the holy Spirit: d Concil. Trident. Sess. 23. cap. 4. The Council of Trent hinteth at the same opinion; Bellarmine saith the Apostles were made Priests, at the last Supper, to sacrifice Christ's body, but not Presbyters till after that, when they received the holy Ghost; and e Hosius in confess. Polonica tit. 50. Cardinal Hosius, f Martinus Ledesma in 4. qu●st. 36. art. 4. ad. 1. Martinus Ledesma, g Pet. a Soto de sacram. ordinis Lect. 5. Petrus a Soto say the Disciples are made Apostles, joh. 21. h Toletus come. in joan. 21. an. 21: Toletus saith they had power before this time to preach, but not to forgive sins, in the Sacrament of penance while now. And i Cajetanus comment. in joan. 21. ideo hoc loco instituitur & promulgatur Sacramentum poenitentiae. Cardinal Cajetan saith here was first the Sacrament of penance ordained: and it is true k Cyrillus lib. 112. cap. 56. Cyrillus and l chrysostom in joan. homil. 88 chrysostom say that john 21. Soli sacerdotes, only Pastors by this place have power to forgive sins, but not by this place only, for they say that Matth. 16. power is given, m Joan. de Lugo, tomo de Saram. paenit disp. 18. sect. 1. Joannes de Lugo the Pope's Professor at Rome, teach, that Joh. 21. the Apostles first received this power. And jayne with him n Suarez disp. 7. de censura sect. 6. not. 6. Suarez o Sanchez in decalog. lib. 2. c. 13. n. 13. Thomas Sanchez, p Aegidius Coniuk de Sacr. disp. 24. n. 236. Aegidius Coniuk q Vasquez Tom. de excom. dub. 18. n. 9 and Vasquez, though as good as they say the contrary, as r Pano●mit. in dic●. a nobis, etc. n. 10. Panormitanus, a late Schooleman, s Avila de censur is part. 2. cap. 7. disp 1. Dub. 9 Avila, and t Sylvester verbo subsolvo 1. n. 8. Sylvester, and u joan. Episcop. Rossens. de potest. Papae in temporabus lib. 2. cap. 3. John Bishop of Rochester writing against Papists, and their Pope's power of dethroning Kings, saith, how could the Apostles who are examples of good order preach and baptise, if they were mere Layicks, and not Pastor's while, after Christ was arisen from the dead? x People's plea, pag. 42, 43. Robinson citeth Luk. 8. 39 Christ biddeth the dispossessed man g●shew what great things the Lord had done for him, and he went and preached it; now miracles are a part of the Gospel, and written that we should believe, Joh. 20. 30. and they prove that Jesus is the Son of God. Ergo, This man being no Prophet, preached the Gospel. Answ. 1. This will not conclude the Question. 1. One man published one single miracle wrought upon himself, which is a part of the Gospel only. 2. And upon a particular occasion did show what things the Lord had done for him. 3. He is commanded to publish it to his friends, and domestics only, Matth. 5. 19 Go to thy house, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to thine own friends, and show them what the Lord hath done for thee. Hence from this narrow antecedent a vast and broad conclusion is drawn; Ergo, it is lawful, because this man published one particular of the Gospel, for any gifted man to preach the whole Gospel, because one man did it upon a miraculous occasion to his friends; Ergo, all gifted men may prophesy the whole Gospel to all the Churches ordinarily, it is a vain consequence. 2. Because he published one particular, upon a particular exigence, therefore any gifted man may ordinarily, and weekly and daily Preach for the conversion of souls. 3. Because he published one miracle to his friends in a private way, therefore any gifted man may preach the whole Gospel in public, to all the Church, truly here is a weak reason. 2. It is most like that this man was an intruding Prophet, like the Separatists Prophets, for he requested that he might be with Jesus, and be made a Disciple to preach the Gospel, as Calvin, Marlorat, Bullinger expone it; but Jesus suffered him not. Now if Christ had commanded him to be a Prophet, as Robinson will have him, he should have granted what he sought. Lastly, the man did more than Christ commanded, for Mark. 9 20. He published it in Decapolis throughout all the city, whereas Christ had limited the publishing thereof to his friends and house only. Robinson saith, Luk. 10. The seventy Disciples preached, and yet Pag. 44. they were men out of office. I answer. 1. The seventy Disciples were Pastors in office. 1. Satan by their ministry fell from heaven as lightning, v. 19 Christ saith, Behold I give you power to tread upon serpents, Luk. 10. 1. After these things the Lord apponted other seventy, and sent them out; here is a clear calling, they confirm their doctrine by miracles, and casting out of devils, as the twelve Apostles. 2. Christ sent out, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, also other seventy, Ergo, as he gave a calling to the Twelve, so he did to these seventy, and the same pastoral commission is given to them. Behold, I send you etc. Luk. 10. 3, 4, 5, 6. 3. The seventy are called workmen, sent out to the Lords harvest, Luk. 10. 2. and the same is said of Shepherds in office, Matth. 8. 36, 37, 38. to whom wages are due, as to Pastors in Office, 1 Cor. 9 13, 14. Gal. 6. 6. 1 Tim. 5. 17. 3. It is said by Christ of these seventy, He that heareth you heareth me, he that despiseth you despiseth me. Ergo, they were Ambassadors in Christ's stead, as Pastors in office are, 2 Cor. 5. 20. The Samaritan woman (saith Robinson) Job. 4. 28. Preached, Pag 44, 45, 46. and many of the Samaritans believed because of her, v. 39 and without preaching of the word of God, none can believe, Rom. 10. 14, 15. If a woman may teach without the Church, then may a man teach in the Church. Answ. 1. A woman may teach. 2. In a non-constituted Church, where there is no salvation, and they worship they know not what, Joh. 4. 22. 3. A woman may occasionally declare one point of the Gospel, that Mary's Son is Christ; but hence it followeth not, Therefore, 1 a man, 2 in a constituted Church, 3 may ordinarily preach the whole Gospel to the Church in public: a weak sparre for so vast a roof. 2. He abuseth the place, Rom. 10. 14. and would hence prove that a woman or any gifted teacher, is a sent Preacher by whom faith ordinarily cometh; for otherways who dare deny but faith cometh by reading? and just as the Catechise of Raecovia exponeth the place, Rom. 10. 14. to evert the necessity of a sent ministry, so doth Robinson expone the place. Robinson, Act. 8. 1, 2, 3, 4. Act. 11. 20, 21. All the Churches Pag. 46, 47, 48, 49. were scattered abroad, except the Apostles, and those who were scattered, preached every where the Gospel, Ergo, Disciples out of office may lawfully preach the Gospel. Answ. Whether these of the scattered Church, who preached, were the seventy Disciples, as learned Divines think, I dispute not; But that they were Prophets out of office, the Text saith not. But that they were extraordinarily gifted Prophets who preached, I conceive the text doth insinuate, for it is said, Act. 11. 21. The hand of the Lord was with them, the very word which is, Ezek. 3. 14. The hand of the Lord was strong with me. 2. In a scattered and dissolved Church, gifted persons may prophesy, Ergo, in a constituted Church gifted persons are the ordinary and only Ministers of conversion, though they be never called to the office, it doth no ways follow. Robinson saith, it is not reasonable to think that they were all extraordinary Prophets, and that if they were immediately inspired, there had been no need of so speedy sending of Barnabas from Jerusalem to Antioch with supply, though he were a man full of the holy Ghost, for ●● were such Prophets as well as ●ee, Ephes. 2. 20. and 3. 5. Answ. We do not affirm, that all and every one of the Church, even women and children were extraordinarily gifted, but whether their gift was ordinary or extraordinary, the Text doth not say that they were Prophets out of office, and the Law of disputing saith, Affirmanti incumbit probatio; the hand of God was with them, as it useth to be with Prophets. 2. They traveled as far as Phenice, Cyprus and Antioch, preaching the word of the Lord, this is that which the Apostolic planters of Churches did, as Master builders, laying the foundation Calvin Com. in Act. 11 21. of Churches, and Calvin calleth them Ministers, planters of the Gospel. Nor is it like that Prophets not in office, would so travel and preach the Gospel to the Gentile ●s and Calvin saith, singulari Dei impulsu hoc factum, and that many were turned unto the Lord. 2. Barnabas saw the grace of God in them. 3. And exhorted them that with purpose of heart they would cleave unto the Lord, Ergo, there was grace and a profession visible of cleaving to the Lord, before Barnabas came, and so a founded Church; and if it had been done by gifted Christians of ordinary gifts, and wanting the spirit of Prophecy, the work had been the more illustrious, and it would not have been concealed, yea and help in so great an harvest by Barnabas an Apostolic man, was very needful, the number being so great of those who were converted to the faith, seeing the great Apostles sought help, and Paul took Titus and Timothy with him often, for helping the work of the Lord. The next Scripture (saith Robinson) is 1 Pet. 4. 10, 11. As every man hath received the gift, so let him minister as good stewards of Pag. 49. the manifold graces of God; if any man speak, let him speak as the oracles of God. Answ. This saith with us, for private Christians are not stewards; who gave them the keys? Yea 1 Cor. 4. 1. it is a word of office, and it is not given to Ministers not in office, as Beza observeth well; he setteth down one general, that the Ministers be ready to distribute, and then two species. 1 Preaching Ministers, that they speak the Oracles of God. 2. Serving Ministers, Elders and Deacons, that they minister out of the hability that God giveth them; and the place is against private Prophets. Robinson allegeth, Revel. 11. 3. I will give power to my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundreth and sixty days, clothed in sackcloth. The Clergy men are not only witnesses against the Antichrist. In the Antichrists reign, no Church officer, a● an● officer, witnesseth against him, but all for him, as both having their authority from him, and binding themselves to submit their doctrine to his censure. The persons indeed that were officers, even Masspriests, Monks, and Friars, witnessed some of them against him, but so did not their office, something was extraordinary, I acknowledge, in respect of the then prevailing order, and in respect of their degree of gifts and graces, but no extraordinary and miraculous gift of prophesying: and Brightman exponeth the two witnesses to be the holy Scriptures and assemblies of the faithful. Answ. The two witnesses (saith a junius annot. in locum Apocalypse. Junius) are the Ministers, for number, few, and for place, contemptible, so saith Couper; b Cooper on Revel. 10. and c Pareus comment in Apocalyps. cap. 10. Paraeus induceth many pairs of witnesses, as in Bohemia, John Hus, and Jerome of Prague, An. 1415, 1416. in Saxony, Luther and Melancthon; in Argentine Bucer and Cariton; in Helvetia, Zwinglius and Oecolampadius; in France, Farell, and Calvin, and these were Pastors in office. We need not stand upon the number of two, but because two is the least and fewest number, the witnesses were two. But first there is no reason to fetter and restrict the Text, to witnesses and Martyrs out of office, excluding the Ministers and Prophets in office, and to infer thence that gifted persons in a constitute Church are the ordinary Ministers of conversion. 1. These two witnesses did prophesy in the midst of Popish Babylon, where God had no visible Church. They did upon a particular exigence, being called thereunto as the Martyrs of Christ, to give a witness for Christ against Antichrist, and they sealed the truth with their blood: but the consequence is null, a Martyr at the stake, though no Pastor, may give a confession of his faith, to the persecutors, as Stephen did. Therefore a gifted person not in office, may ordinarily preach in the Church. I would not buy such logic with a rotten nut. 3. Many women were witnesses and Martyrs, and gave a testimony against Antichrist; Ergo woman may preach in the Church: what vanity is this? 2. Also if those witnesses had an extraordinary measure of gifts and graces to bear witness to the truth, it followeth not; Ergo, Christians gifted with an ordinary measure of the Spirit are ordinary Prophets for the conversion of souls. 2. Though these witnesses were only unofficed Prophets, yet the prophesying ascribed to them, after they arose from the dead, will not infer that unofficed Prophets are ordinarily to preach, for the rising again of slain Prophets is not to be exponed of the raising again of the persons of unofficed Prophets to preach, but it is to be exponed of the rising again of the buried Gospel; which in the ministry of faithful Pastors and in other new Martyrs, Pastors and others arose again from the dead, with the Spirit and power of these Martyrs, and that buried truth, that was in former times persecuted by Antichrist did now revive again to the wondering of Babylon; for the intent of the Spirit is to show that the Gospel, and true Church, slain and buried, shall arise again within a short time, as three days and a half. 4. It is vain that he saith none of the Clergy witnessed and prophesied against Antichrist; he is not versed in the Church's history who teacheth so, for Monks and Friars were Ministers, (though their office unlawful) and as Ministers of Christ. Luther, Melancthon, and thousands other gave testimony against Antichrist. Robinson addeth, Revel. 14. 6. Where an Angel flieth in the midst Pag. 52, 53. of heaven, that is, in the visible Church, having the everlasting Gospel to preach to them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation and kindred. That is, God raised men in the midst of popery, not miraculously inspired (for you can show me no such) who preached the Gospel, not by virtue of an office; The office of a Friar, Monk, or Masse-priest, is no ministry of Christ's appointment; and when they gave their clearest testimony, they were almost all excluded out of Rome, and so in respect of their personal gifts and graces, they were Angels of God, in respect of their office, they were Angels of Antichrist. Answ. 1. There is no reason to reject the interpretation of d junius annot. in cap. 14. Junius, that this Angel was a type of the servants of God, who opposed Popery after the times of Bonifacius the eight, as Cassiodorus the Italian, Arnoldus de villa nova, Occam, Dantes, Petrarcha, Ioann●s de Rupe the Franciscan, Wickliff; And Pareus e Paraeus in locum. refers the type to Wickliff, Marsilius Patavinus, Petrarcha; Our country man f Napper Comment. on the Revel. ch. 14. Napper exponeth it of Luther, Melancthon, and Calvin in the seventh age, Anno 1541, and it is false that they were all excommunicated, and though the accident of their office, to be a Monk, a Friar, was Antichristian, yet the ministry itself was of Christ, and by it they did preach against Antichrist, as they did validely baptise, for I hope they did not baptise as unofficed Prophets. Lastly, this Angel did not preach in the visible Church, but in the midst of Popery, and therefore doth not prove it is lawful in a true visible constituted Church, for gifted Prophets out of office, to be ordinary Preachers. Robinson much urgeth the place, 1 Cor. 14. 1 Because the Apostle speaketh of the manifestation of the gifts and graces common to all, Par. 54. 55. as well brethren as ministers, ordinary as extraordinary. 2. He speaketh of the fruits common to all, edification, exhortation, and comfort, compared with, 1 Thess. 5. 11. 14. and of that which at all times remaineth amongst the Christians, to wit, love. Answ. The cohesion of this Chapter with the former is clear, charity should be followed, because so excellent. Therefore cover gifts, which are most conducing to love and edification, and that is to prophesy; he proveth excellency of prophesying above others, and teacheth in this Chapter the right ordering of public Church meeting. Now Robinson's Argument is this, if it stand good, As many as may love one another, and may edify, exhort and comfort one another, may express their love by public prophesying, for edification in love: but all Christians, even such as are not in Church-state, nor officers, are to love one another, to edify, exhort and comfort one another. Ergo. The proposition is most false; women are obliged to love one another, and to exhort and edify one another, Prov. 31. 26. Til. 2. 3. yet can they not prophesy in the Church, 1 Cor. 14. 34, 35. yea excommunicated persons are not loosed from the duties of love and mutual rebuking in private, if they may be exhorted as brethren, 1 Thess. 3. 15. They may exhort and rebuke others, Levit. 19 17. which the law of nature requireth, yea Peter as a Pastor out of love to Christ is to preach, joh. 21. 15. 16, 17. But therefore private Christians are not obliged to Pastoral preaching, and administration of the Seals, which are expressions of the love of Christ, yet to administer Sacraments is an act of edification, is therefore every act of edification and love common to all, because to love, and in some private way, to edify all, is incumbent as a duty to all? nay a King out of love of Christ, should govern God's people, a Captain fight God's battles, a Sea man sail, & a Professor teach in the Schools; will it follow, because to love one another is common, that all private men may be Kings, may kill men in battle, and that the Ploughman should sail and invade the Mariners calling? this were anabaptistical confusion of places and callings, and should evert states, places, charges and callings, and overturn Church and State, and make the Church an old Chaos; the God of order hath not so ordered callings and places. But (saith the man) if the end, which is edification and comfort, continueth, therefore the gift of prophesying continueth. Answ. 1. Prophesying continueth, who taketh it out of the world? It continueth in such, as God hath set in the Church for that end and use, 1 Cor. 12. 29. but not in all, and every Ploughman, who in his place is obliged to edify. 2. The Argument is also weak, that continueth, the end whereof continueth, forso circumcision, passover, sacrificing, the end of all which was edifying, should continue in the Church: Mr. Yates answered to him, extraordinary gifts, as strange tongues, miracles, are for edification, yet they continue not. Mr. Robinson answereth to him, strange tongues and the office of the Ministry do not properly edify, but the use of strange tongues. I answer, there doth much weakness here appear, love in Mr. Robinson's breast doth not edify, nor his habit of prophesying, but the acts of expressions of love, and the use of prophesying, edifieth, and for that cause we may well say that the office doth edify There being (saith Robinson) no other means to edify, exhort, and Pag. 97. comfort, left in the Church, but propbecying, Paul argueth from the common grace of love, as well upon brethren as officers, to ordinary, as to extraordinary, and at all times prophesying, that all out of office may prophesy to the world's end, if they have gifts. Answ. Is there no means to edify, exhort, and comfort, but prophesying? and that prophesying public in the Church and pastoral? that is denied, what say you of private and domestic exhorting, praying, praising, reading, and Christian conference, Coloss. 3. 16. Mal. 3. 16. Zach. 8. 21. are not they singular means of edifying? hath Christ left no means of edifying, exhorting, and comforting, but the public prophesying of Clothiers, Mariners, Fashioner's? 2. Faith cometh by hearing of a sent minister, Rom. 10. 14. It pleased God by preaching, of sent Pastors, 1 Cor. 1. 17. 21. to save those who believe. Robinson. 2 Argu. v. 31. You may all prophecy, that all may learn, that all may be comforted; be speaks of prophesying of all, as largely as of learning of all, according to the received rule of exponing the notes of universality. Answ. Women, ungifted brethren, infidels in the Church, by his own grant, may learn, but they may not prophesy in the Church, Ergo, many more are to learn then may prophesy: and the one (All) is narrower than the other, for all are not Prophets, 1 Cor 12. 29. therefore all may not prophesy in one and the same verse, 1 Cor. 11. v. 32. and Isa. 53. v. 6. the notes of universality, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 (we all) are taken divers ways; yea one and the same word applied to divers subjects is taken divers ways, as 1 Sam. 12. 18. And the people greatly feared the Lord and Samuel; and my son (saith the Wise man) sear the Lord and the King. Prov. 24. 21. Mr. Yates said well, all aught to have the gift of hearing, but not of prophesying. Robinson answereth, every particular person is not bound to have the gift of prophesying, but if he speak to purpose, he must say, that no ordinary brethren out of office ought to have the gift of praphesie, which if it be true, then ought none to strive for fitness to become officers, neither were that reproof just, Heb. 5. 11. Answ. He speaketh to purpose, to destroy your Argument, which you destroy yourself, while as you grant, many may learn who may not prophesy. 2. He may say truly, no ordinary brethren out of office, but purposed to remain artificers, are to strive for fitness to the office of ministry; but many out of office may have the gift of prophesying, who are not Prophets; and you grant, I think, many are gifted to be Kings, who neither are Kings, nor may lawfully exercise acts of royal majesty, without treason both to God and their King: For the place, Heb. 5. 11. the Apostle rebukes the Hebrews, both officers and people as dull of hearing, whereas they ought to be teachers of others, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, that is, (as you expone it) Prophets out of office, who ought to prophesy publicly to the edifying of the Church. But take home this Argument thus. Those whom the Apostle rebuketh as dull of hearing, who ought to be teachers and unofficed Prophets, are obliged to be indeed such Prophets; for a rebuke is for the omission of a moral duty which we are obliged to do, or for the committing the contrary, but he rebuketh teachers in office, women, children, and ungifted brethren as dull as hearing, for that they ought to be Prophets & were not, Ergo, all, even teachers in office, women, children and ungifted brethren ought to be Prophets not in office. Now the conclusion is absurd and against yourself, for you say, Pag. 58. every particular person in the Church is not bound to have the gift of prophesying, women are not bound I am sure, yet are women rebuked for being dull of hearing, and for that they ought to be teachers of others, and were not. 2. Hence it is clear that you corrupt the word of God, and to be teachers, in that place, is to be such, as so aboundeth in the knowledge of God, as to teach, rebuke, admonish, and comfort mutually one another in a private way, not to preach publicly in the Church, for the ordinary conversion of souls, for which sort of Prophets you do contend. Robinson addeth. The Apostle cannot mean extraordinary Prophets, 1 Cor. 14. there could not be such a number of extraordinary Prophets, now when extraordinary Prophets were beginning to cease in the Church. Answ. 1. When the Church of Corinth abounded in every thing, in all knowledge, and utterance, and came behind in no gift, 1 Cor. 1. 5. 7. and so much grace was given them in Jesus Christ, v. 4. It is clear there were abundance of Prophets even then in Corinth. 2. It is not to purpose for lay-Prophets whether they were ordinary or extraordinary Prophets. They were Prophets as the Spirit of God calleth them, 1 Cor. 12. 29. set in the Church as officers, even as Apostles, and Governors, and Teachers, who are officers. And there is no reason that you should impose significations on words, at your own pleasure, without warrant of the Word. Now show us in all the old, or new Testament, when the word Prophet signifieth a naked gifted man out of office, in the Lord's house, for you have as good warrant for you to say there were lay-Apostles, lay-Teachers, lay-Governors, who were gifted persons not in office, as you have for lay-Prophets. 3. Multitude of Prophets may consist with the time, when Seers and foretellers of things revealed in visions were beginnings to cease, even as the gifts of the holy Ghost given abundantly at the Pentecost, Act. 2. 17. 18. joel 2. 28. did consist with the time when things concerning Christ must now have an end, Luk. 22. 37. Luk. 24. 44. pag. 59 and 63. Robinson's 3. Argument is. The Apostle in forbidding women to prophesy in the Church, licenceth men. 1. The Apostle in, and for the work, opposeth the men to the women, Sex to Sex, and in forbidding women, he must licence men, when the holy Ghost opposeth faith and works in the cause of justification and denyeth that we are justified by works, is not then the consequence good, we are justified by faith? 2. If in prohibiting women he gave not liberty to men, where were the prerogative of men above women, which is the only ground upon which he buildeth the prohibition? 3. Ver. 34. 35. Women are not permitted to speak in the Church, yet may they speak to their husbands at home; now if the husbands might not speak in the Church more than the women, what reason can be rendered of the Apostle his so speaking? 4. The Apostle in the whole Chapter, taketh order that some should prophesy in the Church, and debarring women therefrom, he must either admit men, or then we have a third sort of Persons to prophesy, who are neither men, nor women. Answ. Here is a great noise of Arguments for just nothing, and a fair sophism, concluding that secundum quid, which should be concluded 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉; for we deny not but some men in office are permitted, yea and commanded to prophesy in public; and we grant that Sex and Sex are opposed, but the opposition made by Robinson is cripple and throwne-backed, for all and every one of mankind are not permitted to prophesy, as all and every woman is forbidden to prophesy or teach in the Church; by the Laws of France a woman may not sit on the Throne and sway the Sceptre; but friend, can you say then the Laws of France doth licence any Frenchman whatsoever he be to sit on the throne and be King? Mr. Robinson proveth men are licenced to preach, Sed indefinita propositio in materia contingente ●quipollet particulari, but he knoweth all men are not licenced to prophesy in public, for ungifted men are not sent of God, and we say, neither all gifted tradesmen, never called by the Church, nor educated in Schools, or sent of God to preach in the Church. This he covereth and proveth never, only he setteth down four armies of Arguments to prove, I know not what, to prove forsooth that men may prophesy in public, and not women, but who denyeth that? And the similitude of faith and works crooketh here, for saving faith is opposed to all good works whatsoever, both in kind and individuals, for we are neither justified by good works in specie, nor by any one good work in individuo, but though all women be debarred from teaching in the Church, yet are not all men licenced to teach in the Church, but only those (say we) who are called of God, as was Aaron. 2. I would bandy the Argument thus; It is not permitted to women to administer the Sacraments, Ergo, It is permitted for any man, though not a Prophet by office, to administer the Sacraments. The Antecedent is Paul's, the consequence is yours; and so all these four Arguments prove not what is in question, to with that; Ergo, a gifted person not in office may preach publicly. Mr. Robinson addeth, In restraining women he showeth his meaning to be of ordinary, not of extraordinary Prophets, because women Pag. 59 immediately and extraordinarily inspired, might speak without restraint, Exod. 15. 20. Jud. 4. 24. Luk. 2. 36. Act. 2. 17, 18. Answ. Robinson cannot show that the same kind of prophesying in women, v. 34. is taxed by Paul, which is regulated in men, v. 26, 27, 28. and therefore that connexion is denied, he restraineth women from ordinary prophesying in the temple, Ergo he speaketh of the ordinary prophesying of men; for, 1. he compareth prophesying with tongues, extraordinary with extraordinary, and he desireth them to covet to prophesy, ordinary he cannot mean, for in all the Word you find not private professors are commanded to desire to be ordinary Prophets, for so God should command them to pray, that they might leave their callings and stations, contrary to 1 Cor. 7. 20. and give themselves to study sciences and tongues: for if the holy Ghost command the means, he must command the end, and if he command the end, he must command the means. But v. 34. he setteth down a new canon about women who took on them to prophesy publicly, and he inhibiteth so much as ordinary prophesying, yea so much as speaking in the Church; and I deny not but a Irenaus' adversus Hares. lib. 2 cap. 57 Irenaeus, b Fusebius, bistoria eccles l. 5. cap. 7. Tertullian. Cyrill. Chrysostom. Theophylact. Robinson, pag. 66, 67. Eusebius, yea and Tertullian, Cyrill, chrysostom, Theophylactus, with warrant teach, that always women extraordinarily inspired may prophesy, for in that God immediately exalteth them above men. But for ordinary prophesying in public, it is of moral equity, and perpetual, that the women should not teach, for Adam was first form; this Paul bringeth as a moral argument against women's preaching. His fourth Argument is from 29 and 32. verses. Let the Prophets speak two or three, and let the rest judge. The Apostle cannot (saith Robinson) speak of extraordinary Prophets, for they cannot err, but are infallible; but the Prophets here spoken of are not infallible, because they are to be censured, and their doctrine judged by the Prophets: now if such could err, our faith were not immediately builded upon the doctrine of the Prophets and Apostles. Answ. This is before examined by me, the consequence is null, for the holy Spirit (saith Pareus) did not dite all things which the Prophets spoke, they might have mixed in some thing Par●us come. ibi. of their own. Paul's presbytery, chap. 16. pag. 251, 252. pag 69. 70. Robinson saith, that Paul could not have said, (if any think himself to be a Prophet, etc. let such an one acknowledge that the thing I wrote are the commandments of the Lord) if these had been extraordinary Prophets, they should have known Paul's writings undoubtedly to have been the Canonic word of God, and could not have been ignorant thereof. Answ. This presupponeth that these extraordinary Prophets might have been ignorant, that the Apostles commandments was the commandments of the Lord, which is not absurd, for Nathan and Samuel were ignorant of Gods will in some points, for Prophets see and know sometimes as men, and sometimes as Prophets, in the former they may err, in the latter they are infallible. He subjoineth. The word of God came it to you, or came it from you? if the word of God came after a sort to the Corinthians, and not from them, than were they not immediately and extraordinarily inspired, whereas indeed the Word of God came from the Apostles. Answ. This proveth not the point, for he condemneth the arrogancy of some immediately inspired Prophets, Came the word of God from you? that is, are ye above the Apostle to whom the word of God was committed, that it may be preached to all the world, that it might come from the Apostles to others? Or came it to you only, as to the only Apostolic teachers, that you need no admonition? but hence it followeth not, but they were extraordinarily inspired Prophets, for Peter might be rebuked, though an Apostle & a chief one. Neither is it any imputation to Paul, or to any who hath received the Spirit in measure, to be censured. It is true, Canonic doctrine, as it is such, cannot be censured, but the teachers thereof, though infallible, even Paul, Act. 17. 10, 11. and every spirit is to be tried, whether they be of God or no, 1 Joh. 3. 1. yea to say that the Church cannot be builded upon the foundation of the Prophets and Apostles (as Mr. Robinson saith, pag. 68) if these Prophet's extraordinary can err, or can be subject to the censure and judgement of the Church, is the very argument of Papists; for they say, that the Word of God borroweth authority quoad nos, in respect of us, from the Church, and is to be believed, because Peter, Paul, the Prophets and Apostles, the then present Church, say it is the Word of God. So a Stapleton apud Whittaker. de sac. Script. Authorit. l. 3. c. 3. arg. 3. sect. Bellarmine, Valentinian Gretserus. Stapleton (as Whittakerne teacheth) that Christ was the Son of God, dependeth to our faith upon the testimony of John Baptist. See Bellarmine, Gregorius de Valent. Gretser; So three famous commentators say, b Transenius harmony. c. 36. Jansenius, c Cajetan come. in loan. 5. in hoc ab ho●nine non accipio. Cardinalis Cajetan, and d Toletus in. joh. 5. tom. 1. Cardinalis Toletus. But our Divines answer, that the Word of God is true in itself, and the authentic ground of our faith, not because the Prophets and Apostles say it is the word of God, not because Paul or an Angel from heaven saith it is so, Gal. 1. 8. for even the Prophets and Apostles were but men, and so their testimony not infallible, but because God himself saith so. See for this e Rivetus tom. 1. contrav. trac. 1. q. 6. Rivetus, f Whittakerus to. 2. desac. Scrip. authorit. lib. 3. c. ●r. 5. Whittakerus, g Bucer in joan. 5. de testimonio Baptistae. Bucerus, h Calvinus in art. 17. v. 10, 11. Calvinus, yea and the Father's most expressly say, that the Prophets and Apostles are not the foundation of our faith, nor their word, because they were infallible, but God's word, by their mouths and pen. So i Theapl●y●. in a●t 1● ibid. Thea●●●lact, k Chrysost in joan. hom. 39 chrysostom, l Beda in joan. cap 5. Beda, m Ambrose in ●. Tim. Ambrose, n Occam. d●ale. l. 5. ca 2 par. 1. & c. 3. probatu● quod pap● Canonice electus manens papa potest errare a fide & bareticari, quindecem ration●bus. Occam, and o Gerson de infallibilitat Papae, consid. 12 Gerson do roundly acknowledge that their Pope's word is not the foundation of faith, quia Papa potest hereti●ari, because the Pope may err. What? because Samuel was deceived in calling Eliah the Lords anointed, are not his books a part of canonic doctrine, whereupon our faith is builded? Lastly saith p Robinson. Pag 70. 71. Robinson, Pastors must preach and pray before they he put in office, otherwise they cannot be tr●ed, if they be apt to teach, as they must be, 1 Tim. 3. 2. Tit. 1. 9 It is decreed that all may preach, q Synod of England. Ministers, Teachers, Elders, Deacons, and if there beam, ex ipsa plebe, any of the common people, who would employ their gift for the good of the Church, and it is practised in the Colleges, where all must preach, though they were never Priests. Answ. 1. It is lawful, that these aiming at the office; 2. Brought up in humane sciences; 3. Called by the Church preach, by way of trial, before they be admitted to the office: but hence it cannot be concluded, that tradesmen and artificersvoyd of learning and ignorant of the Scriptures should preach, not for try all, or as aiming at the office of the Ministry, but as ordinary ministers of the conversion of souls to the faith, and that without any calling of the Church either to the office, or to the degree preparatory to the office. 2. All gifted should preach, yea and in England ought to be put in office, where there is a reading ministry which Christ never ordained to be in his house, and this the harmony of confession and Synods teach, and no more. It is a fault that in Colleges all do preach, whether Christ hath called them, or not; such unsent runners Mr. Robinson cannot approve. r Ambrose come. in 4 Eph. ut ●resecret plebs & multiplicaretur, omnibus inter initia concessum est & Exangelizare, & Baptiza●e. Ambrose saith at the beginning it was granted that all should preach, and baptise, that the Church might grow; and s Origenin Num. hom. 11. cap. 8. Origen said the same. But otherwise t Hieronymus comment. in Matth. in prcaemi●. Hieronymus saith, it is praesumptio temeritatis, a rash presumption for any to preach, who are not sent; and u Theophylact. in art. 20. Theophylact calleth them false Prophets; x Augustin. contr. Faustum, lib. 16. c. 12. Augustine will have them all to come before Christ, and so to be thiefs and robbers who cometh not sent, Sicut Moses & Prophet●, as Moses and the Prophets were sent. y Coachman. Coachman saith, if preaching be tied to the ministry, and that order, there shall neither be faith nor grace in a Church where there is no ministry. Answ. It followeth not, for faith may come by reading, by conference, and you expone, Rom. 10. 14. As Arminians and Socinians do. 2. We as Ambassadors pray you in Christ's stead to be reconciled, 2 Cor. 5. 20. Ephes. 4. 11. 1 Cor. 12. 29. Are all Prophets? Ergo, would you say no reconciliation in a land without apostolic Ambassadors? It followeth not, ex negatione unius medii, for then there should be no grace, nor salvation, where there be none of your lay-Preachers. Coachman. Knowledge, judgement, utterance, with gravity, authority, power, maketh a man a Minister, whether he be in office or not; Preaching is accidental to the office, and no part of the office, but only an ornament or appendix of it, a Minister is in full office of the order of Priesthood, though he never preach; an office maketh not a Preacher, it maketh him only such a people's Preacher, when they have chosen him, he preacheth by virtue of his gift, not by virtue of his office. Answ. 1. Here are Socinian mysteries revealed, z Gerard. loc. come. tom. 6. the Minister. eccles. c. 3. sect. 1. n. 70 pag. 78, 79. Gerardus saith, by this mean the Heretics called Pepuziani permitted, in the primitive Church, to women, the Ministry of the Sacraments. And upon this ground the Socinians and Anabaptists proceeded, that except a man would dig his Talon in the earth, he may preach, though he have not a calling of the Church; so doth Mr. Coachman make talents, as judgement and utterance, enough to constitute one a Minister, whether he be called to the office, or not. And Gerardus setteth down a good answer of a Luthe●us tom. 2. Com. in Ps. 8. fol 96 lat. tradidi● quidem Dominus talenta servis. sed non ●●si ●●catis. expecta igitur & ●u donec vocc● is, intereane amb●●s. Luther to the Argument. God giveth talents, but to those whom he calleth, therefore gifted men should in the use of their calling attend and accept the calling of God. It may be the Church perversely set, denyeth a calling to one who is gifted. Then I say, let him use his talon in private. God reapeth not where he doth not sow. 2. This is a wild saying, A man is a Minister whether he be in office or not. A ministry is essentially an office, or a place that the Lord hath called a man unto, else define what an officer is, and how can he expone that, Rom. 10. 14. how can they preach except they he sent? if as our Divines do? then none are sent, but such as are called to the office, and this is against him, if as S●ini●ns say, all gifted men are sent of God to preach, than gifts essentially constituteth a sent man, and what is a sent man, ●ut a man called to the office? 3. Preaching is accidental to the office of a man that maketh court and the world his conscience, it is true indeed, but that preaching is accidental to the office of a Pastor, is Popish and Prelatical; for what is essential to the office? to administer the Sacrament and consecrate the body of Christ? Well said for the Popish cause. b Fugeni● de- 〈…〉. Pope Eugenius in his decree and the council of Florentine teach us, that the essential form of the office of the Priests is in these words, receive power to offer a sacrifice in the Church, for the living and the dead: for saith c Scotus in l. 4. d 24 q. 1. Scotus and the Council of d Concil●i T●i. dentine. s●ss. 14. cap. 1. Trent teach us, that all the essentials of the Priesthood be in two. ●. In a power to consecrate Christ's body, and this is given in the last Supper. 2. In a power to absolve a sinner, so saith e Lodo Meratius tom. 3. trac. de erdi. disp. 7. sect. 1. Bishops preach not, nor is it essential to their office, and therefore Papists by contempt call our Ministers, predicant preachers, saith Gerard, tom. 6 q. 3. n. 294 pag. 336. Meratius the Jesuit, where the reader shall observe silence of preaching the word, and f Bellarm. tom 3. de sacr. ordin. l. 1. c. 4. Bellarmine saith the same; g Guliel. Estius l 4. dist. 24. s. 3. Gulielmus Eslius saith, the essential and most principal work of the Priest is to offer Christ's body, and then to absolve from sins, and this they have from their h Aquinas supplem. q. 34. act. 4. 5. Master Aquin●s, and further warrant for a Priest essentially dumb, you may find in Suarez, And Vasquez doth collect from i Canon. Aposto. lic. 2. 9 17, 18. 25. 42. 43. the fainzed Canons of the Apostles from k Clemens in Epist. 3. ad jacob. Clemens his Epistles, such a Priest. I desire (if preaching be accidental to the office of a Pastor) to know if feeding of the people, Act. 20. 28. and ●eeding the flock, Ezekiel, 34. 2. be all in administering of the Sacrament. It is strange, if a watchman as as a watchman, and by office, should not preach and give warning, Ezek. 3. 17, 18. if an Ambassador, as an Ambassador, in Christ's stead should not pray the people to be reconciled to God, 2 Cor. 5. 20. if a Pastor, as a Pastor, should not feed the flock with knowledge, Jer. 3. ●. 15. if as a workman and a Minister he should not divide the word aright, 2 Tim. 2. 15. if as a fisher he should not catch men; but of this enough. Lastly, 1 Cor. 1. v. 17. Christ sent me not to baptise, but to preach, Joh. 4. 2. Christ baptised none, but was sent to preach, Luk. 4. 43. Chap. 5. Sect. 3. The way of Church judging in New England. WE do not (saith the Author) carry matters either by an overruling power of the presbytery, nor by the consent of Manuscript. The way of the Churches of Christ in New England. the major part of the Church, but by the general and joint consent of all the members of the Church, and we are of one accord as the Church of Christ should be, Act. 2. If any disassent out of ignorance, we labour to bring him to our mind, by sound information. 2. If by pride be disassent, the liberty of his voice is taken from him. If, 3. the matter be difficile, we seek advice of sister Churches. Answ. Unity is much to be desired in the Church with verity, but your way we understand not. Nor do we in our Synods carry matters by the major and maniest voices, because they are maniest, nor because they are the the voice of men, but because the thing concluded is agreeable to the word of God: but what if the Church be divided, and the people (upon whose voices principally the conclusion of the Church dependeth) go against both the truth and the Elders? They answer, These are miserable mistakes, either to think that the people or Elders must needs disassent, or that except they all consent, In the Answ. 10 32. quest. 9 15. there can be no rule? I answer, it is a miserable necessity, through the corruption of our nature, not a mistake; for Simon Magus, and forty like to him, in a Church consisting of threescore, must descent from twenty, whose hearts are straight in the truth: You have no refuge here, but let the maniest carry the matter to a mischief, and the other twenty must separate, and make a new Church presently. Again say I, what if the Church differ? They answer, That ought not to be, nor will it be, if the Church will lay aside corrupt Answ. to the 15. quest. judgement and affections, and if they attend the rule, and depend upon Christ, considering the promises made to the Church, Jer. 32. 39 Zech. 3. 9 Matth. 1. 10. But if such a thing fall out, as not often it doth, if the Elders and major part consent, and one disassent; it is either of corrupt affection, and pride, and so he joseth his voice, or of weakness, and then he is to submit his judgement to the Church. Answ. But to begin at your last, if one out of weakness disassent, he is to submit his judgement to the Church. But I say, what if forty out of weakness disassent from twenty, may not that whole Church as well submit to a Synod, as Act. 15. as one must submit his judgement to a Church? the conscience of one should no more be fettered, than the consciences of a whole Church. 3. I grant the maniest should have Scripture, but what if they say the Scripture, yea and the Apostles are with them, when there is no such thing, as the case was Act. 15. 20. the wrong side alleged Scripture and the Apostles commandment, when the Apostles gave no such commandment, should you not take God's remedy to appeal to a Synod, as the Apostolic Church doth? Act. 15. 6. They answer, in our Churches hitherto, the major part, yea all mind one thing, as Rom. 15. 16. 1 Cor. 1. 10. Act. 1. 14. I answer, 1. that is because they are in Church-government all one, and a conspiracy in error, is but seeming unity. But 2. I say, good men as Paul and Barnabas will differ. But 3. what if all be wrong of three parts, as 1 Cor. 1. 12. Some said, I am of Paul, some, I am of Apollo, some, I am of Christ; all the three were wrong, in that case, doth not a Synod by the word of God determine the matter best? certainly, though Synods may err, yet are they of themselves Christ's lawful way to preserve verity and charity and unity. But our brethren answer us, divisions ought not to be, and they will not but all agree in the truth, if the Church will lay aside corrupt judgement, and depend on Christ, Answ. to quest. 15. considering the promises made to the Church, Jer. 32. Ephes. 3. 9 Matth. 18 20. Let me answer, there is much more charity in this answer, than verity. 1. They ought not to disassent from truth: true, but what then? the remedy is not given except you return to a Synod; the division, Act. 15. ought not to be; the house should not be fired: true, but the question is how shall water be had to quench it, for many things are, which ought not to be. 2. (Neither will divisions be,) that is false, 1 Cor. 1. 12. 3. As heresies must be, so scandals must be, our author saith (they will not be; they will not be) (say the brethren) if the Church lay aside corrupt judgement, and affection, and attend upon the rule, and depend on Christ. I answer. There is but vanity, and no solidity (I crave pardon) in this answer, it is the vain answer of Arminius in the case of the Saints perseverance. The regenerate (say they) cannot fall away if they be not inlaking to God's grace, and if they in holy fear take heed to their ways, so saith a Ar●in. in declare sen. p. 57 Arminius in his Declaration; and in his b Armin. ant●perkins. pag. 224. qua●nd●u am●r Det in ipso●u●n cord●bus vigebit, imped●en. ui ne ●ccedant ● D●o. answer to Perkins: so also c Remonst●an. confess. c. 18. Sect. 6. 7. say the Arminians in their confession, and d Episcopius disp. 27. ch. 9 Episcopius. But what is this, but regenerate persons shall persevere, upon condition that they shall persevere? for not to be inlaking to the grace of God, is to cooperate to the grace of God, or with the grace of God, and to cooperate with the grace of God is very perseverance itself; for saith the e Socinus de just●●. ●●l. 10. quod si a● hac obedientia deficiamus, etc. the wicked Socinus, and f Smalcius' 〈◊〉 7 in joan. fol. 78. Smalcius, and so say our brethren, all shall agree in the truth, if they lay aside corrupt judgement. And what is that, if they lay aside corrupt judgement? that is, if they agree with the truth, and assent to the Word of God. But so it is, that the best regenerate, even Barnabas, a man full of the holy Ghost, Act. 11. doth not lay aside corrupt judgement. But our brethren proveth they will law aside corrupt judgement; but how? you allege the Papists abused Scriptures, jer. 32. God promiseth to put his Spirit and fear in his Church, that they shall not depart from the Lord. True (say I) they shall not depart from God, providing they lay aside corrupt judgement, as you teach us. But do you not teach us by your answer to elude these pregnant places, which unanswerably prove the necessity of the perseverance of the regenerated? But 2. what though God promise to put his fear in the heart of the regenerate? this promise is not made to the visible Church convened in a Synod, as it is such, nor will it prove that a Synod shall all agree in the truth, & that the whole Church shall lay aside corrupt judgement, except you serve yourselves with these and the like places, as Papists, and by name as Bellarmine, G●etserus, Snarez, Bucanus, Stapleton, Gregorius de Valentia do serve themselves with them, and the like, to prove that Counsels are in fallible. What is said in the fourth Section anent the power of the people in Church-government is already examined, only in the closure thereof, they seem to give something peculiar to the Elders, which the people have not, which I discuss in the ensuing question. Quest. VIII. What peculiar auhority is in the Eldership, for the which they are over the people, in the Lord, according to the doctrine of our brethren? We hold that Christ hath given a superiority to Pastors and Overseers in his House, whereby they are, by office, government, and power of the keys, above the people. But 1. this authority is limited, and conditional, not absolute, as if they may do what they please. 2. It is a power ministerial, not a Dominion; for as mere Servants and Ambassadors of Christ, they do but declare the will and commandment of the King of Kings. 3. When this authority is not exercised by the precise rule and prescript of the Law of God, it is not valid, but null, and of no force. 4. They are so above the people, as 1. they are their Servants, for Christ's sake, 2 Cor. 4. 5. yea we are their servants servants: not as if the people had a dominion over the Pastors, or as if they had their authority from the people, they have it immediately from Christ, but because all their service is for the good, and the salvation of the people. 5. They have so superiority, as they are subject to the Prophets to be judged, and censured by the Church representative of Pastors, Doctors and Elders. It will be found that our brethren give no authority or superiority to the Eldership above the people. In their answers to the 32. questions. We acknowledge (say they) a Presbytery, Answ to 32. quest. q. 15. whose work it is, to teach and rule, and whom the people ought to obey, and condemn a mere popular government, such as our writers condemn in Morellius. Answ. So say our brethren in their Doctrine, we acknowledge that the people, and gifted men not in office, should teach, and all the faithful is the governing Church, to which Christ hath committed the keys, and power of ordination, and highest Church censures, even excmmunication, and that the Elders should obey the Church of believers. Ergo, in teaching and ●uling you acknowledge no Presbytery. 2. Seeing you ordain the Elders to be ordained by the imposition of the people's hands, to be elected, called, censured, excommunicated, exauthorited, show us why the people are not the Rulers, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, and the Elders ruled. 3. The key of knowledge is a chief part of the keys, and these keys by which sins are remitted and retained, and men bound or loosed on earth and heaven: and seeing Morellius, Anabaptists, and yourselves teach that these keys were given to the whole Church of believers, how do you think that people are not in teaching, Overseers as properly as the Elders, and that your government is merely popular, as Morellius taught? to say nothing that when you deny your government to be merely popular, you do not deny, but it is popular; for a government merely popular admitteth of public men to rule for the people, and we never read of a government in Athens, Lacedemonia, or any where, in the which all the people did actually judge, rule, and command, and so was merely popular. But the Word of God giveth a real superiority to the Pastors and Church guides over the people in the Lord, as Jer. 1. 10. So I have set thee this day over the Nations, and over the Kingdoms, to root out, and to pull down, and to destroy, and to throw down, to build and to plant, here is a real authority given to Jeremiah, only by his office of his prophesying, without any power of the seals or sacrificing, or judging, or governing, which was the part of the Tribe of Levi, of which Tribe Jeremiah was not, Matth. 10. v. 40. He who receiveth you, receiveth me, Luke 10. 16. He that heareth you, heareth me, he that despiseth you, despiseth me, and he that despiseth me, despiseth him that sent me, John 13. 20. 2 Cor. 10. 8. For though I should boast something of the authority which the Lord hath given us for edisication, and not for your destruction, I should not be ashamed, 1 Cor. 4. 1. Let a man so account of us, as of the Ministers of Christ, and of the Stewards of the mysteries of God, John 20. 23. Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted, and whose sins ye retain, they are retained, 2 Cor. 5. 18. And he hath given to us the word of reconciliation, 20. Now than we are Ambassadors for Christ, 1 Cor. 12. 28. And God hath set some in the Church, first Apostles, secondly Prophets, etc. Eph. 4. 11. And he gave some Apostles, etc. 1 Thes. 5. 12. And we beseech you brethren to know them which labour among you, and are over you in the Lord, and admonish you, Heb. 13. 17. Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves, for they watch for your souls, as they that must give an account, Acts 20. 28. Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock over which the Lord hath made you Overseers, to feed the Church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood, 1 Pet. 5. 2. Feed the flock of God, which is among you, taking the oversight thereof, not by constraint, etc. 1 Tim. 3. 2. A Bishop then must be blameless, etc. 4. One that ruleth well his own house, etc. 1 Tim. 5. 17. Let the Elders that rule well, be counted worthy of double honour, v. 21. 28. 2 Tim. 2. v. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7. Tit. 1. 9, 10, 11. 2. The Lord in his house, putteth a difference betwixt the Feeders, and the flock, the Governors, and the governed; those who are over the people in the Lord, and those who are under them in the Lord; the Overseers and Watchmen, and the City over which they watch; the Stewards, and the family; therefore there must be a peculiar authority in those who are Elders. 3. The flock is to obey, hear, follow, in the Lord, to have the Elders in high estimation, to submit to their doctrine, to receive them as Christ; Ergo, some authority they must have. 4. The Lord hath given to them an oversight, Act. 20. 28. and hath committed to them a ministry, 2 Cor. 5. 15. hath put them in his work and ministry, 1 Tim. 1. 12. 5. God will seek an account of the blood of the lost at their hand, Ezech. 3. 20. Heb. 13. 17. and God giveth a reward for the discharge of their office, 1 Pet. 5. 4. 2 Tim. 4 8 Matth. 24. v. 45. 46. Ergo, they must have a place of authority over the people, which the people have not. 6. The proportion betwixt the priesthood in the Old Testament, and the ministry of reconciliation which is more excellent and glorious, 2 Cor. 3. 7, 8. requireth the same. Now the Lord in a peculiar manner choosed the Tribe of Levi, Deut. 33. 8, 9 Esay 52. 11. Num. 3. 12. v. 45. ch. 8. v. 6. Separate the Levites to me, ch. 18. 23. Josh. 3. 3. 1 Chron. 15. 2. Josh. 14. 3. 8. But let our Author speak what peculiar authority, or what singular acts of authority are due to the Elders above the people. The Church (saith he) exerciseth several acts of authority over the Elders. 1. In calling and electing them to office, and ordaining them in defect of the Presbytery. I answer. 1. Calling and electing are not to be confounded; electing is no act of authority; but that the people calleth and ordaineth the Elders, wanteth example in the word of God, and therefore the Author addeth, that the people ordaineth the Elders in defect of their Presbytery, that is, where there is no Presbytery; then in case of extraordinary necessity, and where the Church is not constituted, they are to ordain the Elders, but in a Constitute Church, the power of ordination is in the Presbytery; Ergo, ordinarily the people do not exercise this authority over the Elders. 2. The Church of believers, saith the Author, sendeth forth the Elders for the public service of the Church; as the whole Church of Jerusalem sent forth chosen Ministers, with letters of instruction to Antioch, and to other Churches, Act. 15. 22. Now the Ambassador is not greater than he that sent him, but usually inferior, Joh. 13. 16. Answ. 1. I deny not, but a Church of believers in the least Congregation is greater than any Pastor, or number of Pastors, as they are such; for the Pastors are servants for the Church, and means for the end, and less and inferior in respect of Christian dignity, but this is not the point, we do not now dispute of Christian dignity, one redeemed soul in that respect is of more worth than a thousand Pastors as they are but mere Pastors, but because the Church sendeth the Elders, the Elders are a part, and a great part of the visible Church, which also send themselves; but it proveth not the People's Church authority, as they are contradistinguished from Elders to be superior and above the authority of Elders; for here the comparison must not be betwixt one or two Elders, and the Church including all the people and the rest of the Elders, but the comparison is betwixt spece and spece, the office and dignity and authority of the Elders as Elders, and the people as people; and the Church of Jerusalem was not a Parishional, but a Presbyterial Church, consisting of many Elders, and Congregations: now we deny not two Elders to be inferior in authority to the whole College of Elders and people, and so there is no authority of the people above the Elders, from this proved. 2. a Morton Grand Imposture. Sect 5. Pag. 47. Morton answereth Papists in the like argument, that sending proveth only that those who are sent, are not superiors to those who sent them, for the Father sent his Son into the world. 3. (Saith the Author) if an Elder or a whole Eldership err, the Church may call him, or them to account, and in case of obstinacy excommunicate them: for it is not reason that Elders should want the medicine of excommunication to save their souls, if they stand in need thereof, more than other. As Peter gave an account, Act. 11. to the Church of Jerusalem of his going in to the uncircumoised. Answ. 1. If a warrant or example from the word, that one single company of sole believers wanting Elders, did in a Church way censure any one Pastor, or a whole Eldership, and that the Church of Jerusalem consisting only of believers without Elders, called Peter before them judicially to give an account of going in to the uncircumcised, is a dream: and though Peter should have given satisfaction to a number of sole believers, to remove the scandal, it proveth not that they had authority over Peter, for one private offender is obliged to give an account, and a satisfaction to another private brother, whom he hath offended, Matth. 18. 15. yet hath not a brother Church authority over one another, to excommunicate him, as our brethren say, that a company of only private believers may excommunicate all the Elders of the Congregation. 2. It followeth not that Elders should want the medicine of excommunication, when they stand in need thereof, because the people may not excommunicate them, for there be others who of office should excommunicate; and also the want of a mean of salvation, as the want of baptism, where such are wanting, as have the only Church power, to administer such means, doth not condemn men. On the other side, (saith the Author) the Elders have rule over the Church, and that in sundry Acts, as 1. in calling together the Church upon any weighty occasion, Act. 6. 2. Answ. 1. This power of conveening the multitude, cannot be the power of governing God's house spoken of, 2 Tim. 3, 4, 5. Tit. 1. 5. to obey those who watch for our souls, Heb. 13. 17. cannot be to convene to a Church meeting at their commandment. 2. To conveen the Church meeting or Synods, is an action of the whole Church, for Christ hath given power to his own Church an ecclesiastic power to conveen her own Courts, and this can no more be a peculiar act of authority, agreeing only to the Elders, or to a Pastor, than the act of excommunication, for it is given to all the faithful by your own grounds, 1 Cor. 5. 4. 1 Cor. 11. 18 1 Cor. 14. 23. how then is it a peculiar act of authority in the Elders? 1. The Elders, if they be to be accused and censured, are they to conveen the Judicatory, as the Consul did conveen the Senate, and to summon themselves? also if they have any power to conveen the Church, it is but delegated, for order's sake, to them, by the Church; Ergo, this authority is principally and first in the Church, and so it is no authority peculiar to the Elders; also, if it be but a thing of mere order, it is not an act of jurisdiction over the Church; a Moderator who conveeneth the Synod, or a Consul who conveenth the Senate, have not in that, jurisdiction or authority over the Synod or Senat, and may the Elders hinder, I pray you, the conveening of the Church? I think not. 3. This is but a Popish argument, Pope Julius the third, in his Bull taketh this upon him, to convene Counsels. The Ar● 1547. 9 Sess. of Trent. April. 21. An. 1548. Cardinal de Monte Precedent for the Pope gave leave by a special Bull from the Pope to the Council of Trent to advise about the translating of the Council from Trent to Bonony. And a Bellar. l. 1. de council. c. 12. Good Bellarmine and b Harding 4. Article of Peter's supremacy as ●●well saith. Harding, as Jewel teacheth us, make this a part of the transcendent power and authority of the Pope over the Church, to conveen the Church Catholic; and if it be an act of authority over the Church to convene the Church, far more must it be in the Pope to convene the Catholic Church. Lastly, this power in Elders should be made good by the Word of God. Secondly, (saith he) their authority over the Church is in opening the doors of speech and silence to any of the Assembly, Act. 13. 13. unless it be where the Elders themselves lie under offence or suspicion, than the offended party may begin with them, Act. 11. 2. Yet with due reverence observed, as to their years, so to their place, 1 Tim. 5. 3. Answ. If to speak first in a Church meeting, prove that the Elders have authority over the Church; then one Elder hath authority over all the rest of the Elders, and must be a little Pope, or a great Prelate, for two or four Elders cannot all speak first. We seek now an act of authority due to Elders or Pastors, as they are such, and above the people; if you make this an act of authority, you then give us in every Church-meeting and Synod a Pastor of Pastors, and an Elder of Elders, and a Pope. 2. If this be an act of authority over the Church, then have Papists well proven that Peter hath an authority and power over all the Church, for c Suarez t●. detripl●●. vitr. disp. 10. the same ●on●. Sect. 1. Num. 22. Suarez, and d Bellarm. de P●n●●f Rom. l. 1. c. 22. Pe●●us in conc●l●● primo 〈◊〉 l●quttur. Bellarmine, and e Harding loco cital. Harding prove Peter to be a Pope, because he speaketh first in the council, Act. 13. 13. and the text that you cite, they cite also: But f 〈◊〉 kerus tom. 2. contrev 4 9 2 c. 14. Respond 〈◊〉 posse colligi ex hoc loco Petrum esse 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 citio primum: na● constat ante 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, quis pri●us 〈◊〉 su● 〈◊〉 evangel●sta tacuit. Whittakerus, and g Gerson t●. 4. in propos ut●●●. ad ●●ter scbisma. Gerson saith, as also h Lyranus in 〈◊〉. Lyran, and i Carthusian in locum. Carthusian, It is like that James spoke first as Precedent of the Council. 3. The Author leaveth this act of authority, as weak, and saith, that the offended party may speak first. Ergo (say I) to speak first is not an authoritative act of Pastors as Pastors agreeing to them, by virtue of their office, seeing this act is communicated to those who are out of office. Ergo, they have not shown as yet any Pastoral act of office due to the Elders as Elders; and if it were most convenient that Elders should first speak, our brethren will not say that it is due to them by their office, but for their age and gifts, and so they say nothing. Thirdly, (saith the Author) Elders have rule over the Church in preaching the word, and they have power to teach and exhort, to charge and command, to reprove and rebuke with all authority, 1 Tim. 5. 7. and 6. 17. 2 Thes. 3. 6. Answ. It can not be denied, but Elders, that is, preaching Elders or Pastors, have authority over the people in preaching and rebuking with all authority; but 1. I ask at our brethren, by what authority of the Scripture is pastoral binding and losing an authoritative act of the preaching Elder only? for the concional or preaching power of remitting and retaining sins, Joh. 20. 21. is all one with the power of the keys, Matth. 16. and that is given (saith our brethren) to the whole Church, and by these texts are not restricted to Pastors as they expone them. 2. Our brethren allege there is a twofold power of preaching in Pastors, one by virtue of their gift, another by virtue of their office. By the first Pastors do preach to Infidels, Turks, and unconverted ones; now this preaching is not proper to Pastors as Pastors, nor is it any authority peculiar to Pastors over all the flock, for all gifted persons (as our brethren teach) may preach, and so the gifted ones amongst the people have authority over the Pastors in this meaning, as well as the Pastors have over them, and so the difference of rulers and ruled, of feeders and the fed, is taken away. Now for the power of Pastoral teaching, the Pastors have authority over the Church, but that is over the invisible Church of believers, and regenerated persons, for Pastors as Pastors do not convert Souls, and so they preach to the unconverted not as Pastors, or with any Pastoral care: for they teach that Pastors, Doctors, and Church-officers are given, Ephes. 4. 11. only for confirming of those who are already converted, not for converting of Souls, and by this means, 1. Pastors do not preach the Law, for the humbling of unconverted sinners, they do not as Pastors, or by virtue of the office open the eyes of the blind, nor are they Ministers by whom men believe, 1 Cor. 3. 5. nor are they Fathers who begot men in Christ Jesus, through the Gospel, as 1 Cor. 4. 25. Nor do they pray men in Christ's stead to be reconciled unto God, as 2 Cor. 5. 20. Which is strange and uncouth Doctrine of our brethren, for all these acts ministerial are performed upon non-converts, who are not properly members of Christ's mystical body, nor of the spouse of Christ, nor members of the visible Church, nor the Sons and Daughters of the Lord God Almighty, nor have some measure of sincerity and truth, as this author Chap. 3. Sect. 3. requireth of members of the visible Church, and these are not under any pastoral care, really and in very deed, who are yet unconverted to the faith, therefore the Pastor, if he convert any by his preaching, he doth it by virtue of his gift, not as a Pastor or by virtue of his office, as they teach in their answer to the 32. questions, & so as Pastors they have no authority over the unconverted within the visible Church; and this authoritative act of Elders over the people, falleth to the ground, by their principles. 3. This authoritative preaching doth not yet make over to the Elders authoritative power above, or over the people, such as we now seek. For 1. By this ruling Elders who do not preach and labour not in the Word and doctrine, 1 Tim. 7. 17. by office, have not this power; Ergo, yet you give no peculiar authority to the whole Eldership over the people. 2. The Spirit of God requireth an authority of overseeing and governing to be in Pastors beside the authoritative power of preaching; for besides that a Bishop should be ●apt to teach, 1 Tim. 3. 2. he must also, v. 4, 5, 6. be one, who can both govern his own house, and also the Church of God, and not only must he not neglect the gift of prophesying, 1 Tim. 4. 14. but also he must know, 1 Tim. 3. 13. how to behave himself in the Church of God, and must be circumspect in receiving accusations against an Elder, and lay hands suddenly on no man, and not be partaker of other men's sins, 1 Tim. 5. 19 22. he must not only be an approven workman, to divide the Word aright, 1 Timothey 2. 15. and preach in season and out of season, 2 Tim. 4. 2. but also must commit the Word to faithful men who are able to teach others, 2 Tim. 2. 2. All which are singular points of authoritative power of government different from authoritative power of teaching. And so Titus must not only have the oversight by sound doctrine to exhort and convince the gainsayers, Tit. 1. 9 but he hath power in governing to order the things of discipline, and to appoint Elders in every city, Tit. 1. 9 Act. 4. 23. yea there is an oversight in watching for souls, in governing no less than in teaching, H●b. 13. 17. Now this Author showeth us nothing, that is a peculiar authoritative power in ruling, governing and a disciplinary overseeing of souls, which the Word giveth to Elders, as they are Elders, and called Governors of God's people, as yet, yea all the people are governors, rulers and overseers in government by them, no less than the Elders. 4. The Author saith, Elders have rule over the Church in dispensing all the censures of the Church, (unless it be in their own cause) for though they take the consent of the Church in dispensing a censure, yet they set on the censures with great authority, in the name of the Lord; yea it is no small power, that they put forth in directing the Church, what censures are due according to the word: as, though the Judge dispense no sentence, but according to the verdict of the Jury, yet his authority is great both in directing the Jury to give their verdict according to the Law, and in pronouncing the sentence with power and terror; the like d●e the Elders in dispensing Church censures. Answ. This dispensing of Church censures hath two branches. 1. A directing of the Church in the quality of the censures. 2. A binding of the censures upon them, or in executing the censures of the Church. For the former, if it be a pastoral direction, it is all one with preaching of the Word, and is not an act of authority by way of governing, but by way of pastoral teaching. But, 1. We would have a word from God, giving this power of the keys peculiarly to the Pastors, for if you give the keys to all the Church of believers, as believers, and because they are Christ's Spouse, his mystical body, the habitation of his Spirit by faith, then with your good leave, there be neither keys, nor any power of the keys given to the Pastors as Pastors, and in respect of their office, but only as they are a part of Christ's body; now as Pastors or Elders, they are neither believers, nor the bride, nor a part of the bride, but at best the friends of the Bridegroom, Joh. 3. 29. especially seeing the Church as the Church, and as using actually the keys, doth censure and judicially prescribe the quality and quantity of the censure, as they are directed, Matth. 18. 1 Cor. 5. 2, 3, 4, 5. yea and the Church judicially, and authoritatively pronounceth the sentence, and manner of the censure on the sentence: for example, of ten collateral and coequal Judges, if two of these ten be skilled Juristes, and shall direct the rest in the quality of the punishment to be inflicted upon a malefactor, that direction cometh from them, not as Judges over the rest, nor by any peculiar power that they have above the rest, seeing all the ten are equally and jointly Judges of a like power, but that direction cometh from them as skilled Jurists: So here, though the Elders direct the Church anent, the quality of the censure, they do not this by an authority above the Church, seeing the Church with them have received the Keys; yea they principally as the Spouse of Christ, and his mystical body, have received the keys, and the Pastoes' and Elders as such have the keys, not but as they are believers and a part of the mystical body, but as they are Pastors and Elders they have not received the keys at all, by our brethren's doctrine; yea as Elders or officers they are not parts of the Church, but only adjuncts and ornaments thereof. For the second, to wit, the execution of the censures of the Church, if they do it as Pastors, and by virtue of their office execute the sentence of the Church as Pastors, they are mere servants of the Church, not collateral Judges, with the Church, and are not as the Judge who doth direct the Jury: for the Jury doth only cognosce of the fact, but hath no judicial power to pronounce the sentence or discern the quality of the punishment, nor can the Jury at all discern any punishment. But the Judge cognosceth both of the Law, and the fact, and authoritatively pronounceth sentence; but the Elders have no authoritative power in directing the people to pronounce, or not pronounce the sentence; or what sentence to pronounce, or what censure to inflict; for if they have this authoritative power, than we seek Scripture to warrant this power. 2. The Elders must then have the keys in a more eminent manner then the people or Church of believers; so all be but blank and empty titles given to Elders hitherto. Fiftly, saith the Author, The Elders have power to dismiss the people or Church, and that with a blessing, Numb. 6. 23. to 26. which is an act of seperioritie, Heb. 7. 7. An. This is but an empty title also. For, 1. The Pastoronly, & one dismisseth Doctor, Elders, Deacons, and the whole Congregation; and so one is a Pastor of Pastors, and an Arch-Elder of Elders hath authority, by this, over his fellow Elders, and candismisse them, therefore there is nothing peculiar in an official power, here to the whole presbytery, above the people. 2. A majority or superiority is one thing, and a power of jurisdiction is another. Blessing of the Church at their dismission is nothing, but a prayer of the whole Church (the Minister being mouth) who blesseth all, and is no act of superiority of jurisdiction, or power of the keys, of which we now dispute. And you cannot think that to obey those who are over you in the Lord, and submit to them, as it is, Heb. 13. 17. is nothing but to receive a dismissory blessing from the Pastor. And I much doubt, if the Priest's blessing of the people, Numb. 6. was moral, and if it was not typical, he not taking in himself, but as a type of Christ, pronouncing the whole visible Church blessed, sorypifying Christ our Priest, in whom all the nations of the earth are blessed, Gal. 38. 14. And do not the people pay the Pastor home in his own coin, for you make the Church of believers to ordain their own Elders, and to lay hands upon them and bless them, so you teach. 3. Nor is dismissing of the Church an act of authority, or of official power, for your preaching and unofficed professors may dismiss, as well as they may publicly pray and preach. 2. A dismission is agreed upon by the Church, before hand, and floweth from the nature of all public meetings. 3. Ejusdem est potestatis congregare & dimittere caetum congregatum; you know to convene Christ's Courts authoritatively is due to no man on earth; the Church hath an intrinsical power of herself to convene (being the Court of the Lord Jesus) and so also to dissolve, and this is the usurped power that the Antichrist taketh to himself to convene the general counsels; as a Bellar. l. 1. de conc. c. 12. Bellarmin, b Suarez de tripl. troth. Theo. disp. sect. 3. Suarez, c Pighius l. 6. c. 18. Pighius, and d Cajetan, de ●uthorit. Pap. ●. 16. Cajetanus teach us. Sixtly, our Author saith; In case of Apostasy of the Church, or other notorious scandals, or obstinacy thereof, their Elders have power to denounce the judgement of God against the Church, and withdraw themselves from it; As upon the Idolatry of the Israelites, Moses took the Tabernacle and pitched it without the camp, Exod. 33. And Paul with Barnabas rejected the Jews for their blasphemy, and turned to the Gentiles, Act. 13. 45, 46. Answ. Here be two divers things sewed together to make up one thing: 1. to denounce the judgement of God is one thing, 2. to separate from the Church is another thing; the former is an act of authority, being rightly taken, the latter is an act of no authority. But for the first, to denounce judgement on a visible Church, and that with a separation, is ● nothing but an act of Pastoral teaching, and so no act of official power of governing in the Elders above the Church, is brought in all these six, and so yet the difference betwixt the feeders and the fed, the shepherds and flock, the watchman and the Also your unofficed Prophets may as well denounce judgement against an Apo sta● Church, as they may publicly preach mercy in the Gospel, and s● this is no official act of authority. city, or the people who are to submit and obey these who are over them in the Lord, who rule well, is close everted, and all the Churches are turned masters, feeders, governors, rulers; for Elders have no official authority by our brethren's doctrine, which is not in the Church of believers. 2. To denounce judgement to an Idolatrous and obstinate Church, who by their Apostasy do declare themselves, not to be Christ's body, is a Pastoral act of Pastors exercised on those who now leave off to be Churches, and this is to play the Pastors to that which is not a flock, and as unlawful as for a husband to exercise the actions of a husband to one who is not his wife. 3. To separate from an obstinate Church is by you thought lawful to all private Christians, who would not defile themselves with the pollutions of the Church, how then do you make it an authoritative act of ruling Pastors? 4. For Pastors to remove the Gospel, and preach no more to an obstinate Church, is not, nor can it, in reason, be, that wherein we are to submit and obey those, who are over us in the Lord. My reason is, we are to be agents, at least, for most part, in submitting and yielding ourselves to those who in teaching and governing are over us in the Lord, because they watch for our souls. But in their separating from us and removal of the Gospel, we are mere patients and cannot be agents. 5. Moses his removal of the Tabernacle, and Paul his turning from the Jews, was by another spirits warrant, than Pastors now a days can dare to remove themselves, and their Ministry from a visible Church, for Paul turned from the Jews for their universal Apostasy, blasphemy, and opposing of the main and principal foundation of the Christian faith, to wit, that Christ Jesus came in the world, died for sinners, rose again, and ascended to heaven, etc. The 4. case, to wit, of any particular scandal, or scandals and of obstinacy therein, cannot be the like ground for Elders to separate from a Church and never preach the Gospel again to them. CHAP. 6. SECT. 1. Of communion of sister Churches amongst themselves. I Here be seven ways, saith the Author, by which we leepe the communion of Saints in divers Churches. 1. By way of The way of the Churches of Christ in New England. participation. 2. Of recommendation. 3. Of consultation. 4. Of Congregation. 5. Of contribution. 6. Of admonition. 7. Of propagation, or multiplication of Churches. It is allowed by the consent of our Churches, that when the members of any other Churches are occasioned to rest with us on the Lord's day, when the Supper cometh to be administered, and neither the persons themselves, nor the Church they came from, under any public offence, they be by us admitted to the participation of the Lords Supper: for we look at the Lords Supper, not only as a seal of our communion with the Lord Jesus, but also of our communion with his members, and that not only with the members of our own Churches, but of all the Churches of the Saints; and this is the first way of communion with other Churches, to wit, by participation. Answ. 1. We heartily embrace the doctrine of the communion of Saints, but many things are here which are incompatible with your doctrine; as first communion of Churches, which you call a branch of the communion of Saints, cannot consist with your doctrine, for a Church by you is relative only, to the Eldership of a Church, as sons are relative to Fathers, but a Son is not relative to a brother, so neither is a Parishional Church properly a Church in relation to a neighbour Church; for a Church hath no Church-state, no Church-priviledges, no Church-worship, in relation to a sister-Church; therefore you should say, the Communion of Christians of sister-Churches, not the Communion of Churches, for no Church by your doctrine hath any Church-state; or Church-worship in relation to any, but to its own members. 2. This enumeration is defective, you make a Communion of Churches in the members of sister Churches, in the Lord's Supper, though the members of neighbour Churches be not inchurched in Church-state, by oath, as a member of that Church, where he partaketh the Lord's Supper; and why should not the Child of believing parents in the death or absence of the Pastors of neighbour Churches have communion with you in baptism also? for this communion in baptising, you deny to any but those who are members of that Church, wherein they receive baptism. 3. if you admit communion of Churches in some things, to wit, in the Lord's Supper, how can you deny communion of Churches in other holy things of God? for you admit no communion of Churches in the power of the keys, as in mutual counselling, warning, rebuking, binding and losing, for Christ hath left no common power of the keys in many visible Churches, who are united together in an Island or Nation, or Continent, by which these acts of communion should be regulated, and in case of neglect and abuse, censured according to God's Word as you say, for you deny all authoritative power in Synods, let me be resolved, dear brethren, in this, how Christ hath put whole Churches and their souls in worse case than members of your independent Congregations are, for the keys of the kingdom of heaven in binding and losing, in excommunicating, that the spirit may be saved in 〈◊〉 day of the Lord, the removing of scandals out of sister parishional kingdoms of Christ, the gaining of sister Churches from heresies and scandals, as brethren are to be gained, Matth. 18. 15. 1 Cor. 5. 5. 1 Tim. 1. 30. by censures, the keeping of the holy things of God from profanation, authoritative rebuking, warning, that others may fear, and that the rebuked may be ashamed, and all these means of salvation are denied to your particular Congregations, as if they were Angels and Popes, who cannot be lacking in duties, and yet all these are granted to members of any one particular Church, how hath the care & wisdom of Christ denied these means to many united Churches, and yet you acknowledge that sister Churches have communion amongst themselves, and that seven ways, in visible acts of external communion? I believe this one argument, though there were no more, doth strongly conclude the lawfulness of Synods, and by consequent, the Law of nature would say, if Christ's wisdom provide ways to regulate the public actions of the members of a particular Church, that they may be edified and builded up in the most holy faith, far more hath he taken care for many Churches united in a visible communion seven ways, that Lord that careth for the part, must far rather care for the whole body. 4. You say members of other Churches are admitted to the Lords Supper amongst you, by consent of your Churches, but what consent do you mean? is the consent authoritative, by power of the keys? 1. This consent authoritative is either concluded in a Synod of many Churches, and so you acknowledge the authoritative power of Synods, if it be done and agreed upon in every particular Church by them alone▪ than I ask, seeing to administer the Lords Supper to any, and so to make in your Church meeting, that it shall be administered to any, is (as you teach) an act of ministerial power over those, to whom you administer the Seal, chap. 4. Sect. 5. Now how do you exercise acts of ministerial power, or conclude ecclesiastically to exercise these acts in your parishional meeting toward those over whom you have no ministerial power? for members of neighbour Churches are under no ministerial power in your particular Church, as you teach in the same place, as you can exercise no power of the keys when some are absent, that is tyranny upon the conscience, saith a Answorth pag. 42. 43. in his Animadver. Answorth, who will have none censured, or excommunicated, except the whole congregation be present: also he who of another Church communicateth with you, 1. Hath no faith of the lawful calling, and choosing your Ministers, for he neither could nor ought to be present thereat. 2. He knoweth not but he may be leavened by a scandalous lump, which leaveneth the whole Church, and is enough, as you say (chap. 4. Sect.) to hold any from communicating in the Seals with any Church. Now these and many other things he must take in trust from you, which Answorth thinketh tyranny of conscience; neither can a letter of recommendation make one of another congregation, capable of Seals with you; for to dispone is to alienate and give away the ministerial power of the Seals to another Church. Now this power (say you, chap. 5. Sect. 4.) is a part of the liberty wherewith Christ hath made you free, and so you cannot dispone it to another Church, except you bring yourself in bondage, contrary to Gal. 5. 1. 5. Mr. Best. b Best. the Churches plea. pag. and your c Chap. 4. Ser. 5. self, bold that a Pastor can exercise no pastoral act, but over his own flock, and you say that the Scripture saith so, Act. 20. 28. 1 Pet. 5. 2. Ergo, either to administer the Lords Supper, is no pastoral Act, and may be done by non-Pastors, (as Arminians and Socinians destroying the necessity of a ministry, do aver) or then a Minister cannot administer the Lord's Supper to any but his own flock: see you to this. 6. If the sister Church lie under any offence, you will not admit any of their members to the Lords Supper, though these members be of approven piety; and why? What a separation is this? What if these members do not consent to that offence, as some of the godly in Corinth might be humbled and mourn, that the Church did not cast out the incestuous person, shall they be debarred by you from the seals, because they separate not from that infected lump? the Apostle alloweth communicating, (so that every one examine himself, 1 Cor. 11. 21. 30.) with drunken persons, and where many were stricken of God, with death, and divers diseases, as eating and drinking their own damnation. 7. You look at the Lords Supper, as a seal of communion with all the Churches of the Saints. What communion mean you? invisible? no. You deny that the seals are given to the invisible Church, and the members thereof, but to the visible Church, as you say; d Chap. 4. Sect. 6. If you mean a visible communion of all the visible Churches of the Saints, why then brother do you call the universal visible Church a Chimaera, or a dream, as you say? e Chap. 1. Ser. 2. and if all the visible Churches have a visible communion, it is to deny Christ's wisdom and care of his Church, to deny the lawfulness of a Oecumenick and general council of all the Churches of the Saints. We recommend (saith the Author) Brethren for a time to other Churches, as Paul recommended Phoebe to Manuscript. 6. the Church of Rome, Rom. 16. 1. 2. or we give letters dismissorie to such as are for ever to reside in another congregation; but members are not to remove from their congregation, but upon just and weighty reasons made known and allowed by the whole Church, for we look at our Church Covenant, as an everlasting Covenant, Jerem. 50. v. 5. And therefore though it may be resigned, and translated from one Church to another, (as God's hand shall direct) yet it is not to be violated, and rejected by us; if members cut off themselves by excommunication, it is their own fault; if any upon light reasons be importunately desirous to remove, the Church is to use indulgence, as not willing to make the Church of God a prison, but often the hand of God in poverty and scandal followeth such, and driveth them to return: when a person recommended by letters cometh to another congregation, the Church by lifting up their hands, or by silence receive him; if he ●e altogether unknown, and doubted of, because the Church may err, be is not received till due trial be taken of him. Answ. We see not how letters of recommendation, most lawful, as we judge, and necessary, can resign ministerial power, a liberty bought with Christ's blood, (as you say) to any other Church, for we think all the visible Churches are one Catholic visible Church, and should have a visible communion, and so that there is no resignation of ministerial power in these letters, but they are declaratory of the Christian behaviour of the dismissed Christian. We ask if dimissory letters be authoritative, and done by the Church as the Church, and how can a Church usurp authority (by your way) over a sister Church to recommend a sojourner to a Church state and Church liberties, and seals of the Covenant? one Church hath no authority over another. If these letters be merely private, and merely declaratory, to manifest and declare the sojourners Christian behaviour only then he had power and right without these letters, or any act of resignation, or giving away ministerial power, to be a Church-member, of the visible Church to the which he goeth. Ergo, he was a member of the visible Church, to which he goeth before the dimissory letters were written; and the letters do resign no right, but only notify and declare the sojourners preexistent right, and so there is a visible Church and a visible communion of all congregations on earth, and most be an external power and authority in all, for Synods. Let our brethren see to this. 3. The person to remove must be dismissed and loosed by the consent of the whole congregation It is true, none should remove from one congregation to another without God go before them, nor can they change countries without Gods warranting 〈◊〉, Gen 12. 1. chap. 45. 4. but that such removal is a matter of Church-discipline, and must be done by a ministerial power, is unwarranted by any word of God. (it conveniency permit) else he is not exonered of his Church-oath made to that congregation; What if conveniency do not permit? then is he loosed from an oath without consent of the Church, which did by oath receive him. I think eju●dem p●testatis est (as the Law saith) ligare & solvere, that Church power which bindeth must lose. 4. If the Church-Covenant be an everlasting Covenant, as Jer. 50. 5. tying the man to the membership of that particular congregation for ever; I see not how the Church can use indulgenees, and Pope-like dispensations against the oath of God, to break it upon light and frivolous reasons; for if God punish Covenant breaking, so also should the Church, and can by no indulgence be accessary to the breach of God's oath, there is too great a smell of Popery, Arminianism, and Socinianisine in this way, in my weak judgement. But if the man be not sworn a member of that particular Church by his oath, he is sworn a member of the visible Church universal, which our brethren cannot well say. Neither is any Covenant called an everlasting Covenant in the Scripture, but the Covenant of grace, Jer. 31. 33. c. 32. 40. Isa. 54. 9, 10. and that is made with the invisible Catholic Church of believers, as is the Covenant, Jer. 50. 5. and not a Covenant with one visible congregation, and what warrant hath the Church to dispense with the breach of such an everlasting Covenant? 5. The testimony of other Churches, if it be a warrant to you, in faith, to receive into the Church such a one as a Saint, and a Temple of the holy Spirit, how should it not also be a warrant to you, to cast out and excommunicate also? 6. The person coming from another Church, if of approven piety, is received, by lifting up of the hands, or silence of the Church, as you say, 1. Have we a warrant from God's word, for such a new inchurching? 2. Why is he not received by a Church oath? as a Minister transplanted to another Church, must have ordination and election of new, for to you there is alike reason. 3. If there be no need of a new Church oath to make him a member of that visible Congregation, seeing now he is loosed from the former, you insinuate his former Church-oath did make him a member of a visible Church, and so ●e that is a visible member in a Church, is a visible member of all, and so there must be a visible Church-Catholike, if there be a Catholic visible membership in any one member, and so you destroy what you build. Manuscr. 16. A third way of Communion with other Churches (saith the Author) is by seeking their help and presence. 1. In admitting of members. 2. In case of differences of judgements. 3. In matters dark and doubtsome. Answ. We seek a warrant from the word for this, for Elders are present at the admission, and choosing of officers, as prime agents by authority, not by way of naked counsel and advise. Act. 1. 13. c. 6. 26. c. 14. 23. Act. 13. 3. 1 Tim. 1. 13. Manuscr. The fourth way, (saith he) is by gathering many Churches, or their messengers in a Synod, to examine and discuss either corrupt opinions, or suspicious practices. Here 1. the Magistrate is acquaint with our Assembly, he being a nourishing Father of the Church. 2. They meet in Christ's name. 3. The Elders declare their judgement in order, and the reasons thereof. 4. All may speak till the truth either be cleared, and all either convinced or satisfied, as Act. 15. 7. 5. If things be not fully cleared, and if it seem that the nature of them admit farther disquisition, yea and difference of judgements, without disunion of affections, or prejudice of salvation, each man is left to his Christian liberty, and if any be otherways minded, God shall reveal the same thing to him. Answ. This Section being closed, I have here two considerable points to be discussed; the one anent the power of Synods: the other anent the power of the civil Magistrates. Quest. I. Whether or not Synods have authority, by divine right, to oblige the Churches to obedience, in things lawful and expedient? For the fuller clearing of this grave question, I would have these considerations weighed by the godly reader. Consider. 1. Canons of Counsels may be thought to ●ye as authoritative Commandments, or as advises and friendly counsels. 2. An advice or counsel doth oblige and tie both for the intrinsical lawfulness of the counsel, it being for matter God's word, and also for the authority of the friends counselling, because the first Commandment enjoineth obedience to all our betters, not only inplace, and official relation, as to Kings, Fathers, Pastors, etc. but also to all above us in age, gifts, knowledge, experience. 3. Hence there is a superiority of dominion, or jurisdiction, and a superiority of reverence, and endowments: the former is the narrower, inadequate, and straighter subject of the fifth Commandment, and both are considerable objects, in this Commandment. 4. All who as friends, equals, brethren, and endued with more grace, experience and light, do advise and counsel good, are superiors in so far, but it is a superiority of reverence, not of jurisdiction: for by this they who are aged, and may counsel what is lawful, have not power to censure or excommunicate those who follow not their counsel. Yet if David had rejected the counsel of Abigail, dissuading him from passionate revenge, he had in that despised God, unlessethe Prince or the Highpriest had given that counsel by way of command, though there be degrees of Latitude in despising the one, rather than the other. 5. There is a difference betwixt hability to judge, and right or power to judge: a Presbyterial Church may have right, jus, and ecclesiastical Law to judge of a point, to the judging whereof, they want hability, and therefore de facto, it belongeth to a higher Synod, where more learned men are, though de jure the Presbytery may judge it. 6. Though government of the Church by Synods, be Gods positive Law, yet upon the laid down ground, Christ hath given the keys and power of Government to every visible Church, the Government of united Churches by Synods, is a branch of the Law of nature. 7. Synods are necessary for the well-being of the Church, and still are in the visible Church in more, or less degrees, for the authority of Synods consisting of fix only, differeth not in nature and essence, from a general council of the whole Catholic visible Church. Magis et minus non variant speciem. And therefore if Synods be warranted by the word of God, (as no question they are) there is no need to prove by particular places of the word, the lawfulness of every one of these, a sessionall meeting of the Eldership of a single Congregation. 2. A Presbytery, or meeting of the Elders, or Pastors & Doctors of more Congregations. 3. A Provincial Synod of the Presbyteries of a whole province. 4. The national Assembly, or meeting of the Elders of the whole Nation. 5. The general and Occumenick Council of Pastors, Doctors, and Elders of the whole Catholic Church visible; for all these differ not in essence, but degrees, and what word of God, as Matth. 18. 16, 17. proveth the lawfulness of one, is for the lawfulness of all the five sorts of Synods. 8. Grant the consociation of authorities in sundry Churches, and you cannot deny the authority of Synods above particular Churches. 9 Consociation of Churches to give advise and counsel, is not Consociation of Churches as Churches, but only consociation of Christian professors, who are obleiged to teach, admonish, and rebuke one another. 10. There is a right of dominion, and a right of jurisdiction, as we shall hear anon. Hence our first conclusion, a general council is a Congregation of Pastors, Doctors, and Elders, or others, met in the name and authority of Jesus Christ, out of all Churches, to determine according to the word of God, all controversies in faith, Church-government, or manners, no faithful person, who desireth, being excluded from reasoning and speaking. Neither is the definition of a Fac de Almain de p●testa. eccles. et lav. c. 15. est congregatio authoritate legitime facta, ad aliquem locu● ex omni statu Hierarchico, nulla persona fideli perente audir● exclusa, ad nactandum ea quae concernunt publicam ecclesiae utilitatem et ipsius mares. A●m●in, and b Ge●s●n de p●test. eccles. Gerson much different from this, save that they think that counsels are lawfully convened, if such and such only, as are of the Hierarchike order be members thereof, which we think Antichristian. 2. As also the Pope precedent here, we disclaim. Yet doth Almain confess that a general council may be convened without the Pope in three cases. 1. when the Pope is dead, either departing this life, or civilly dead, being excommunicated. for any crime of heresy: for the Apostolic Sea hath vaiked often two years together. 2. When the Pope is averse and opposeth reformation. 3. When time and place hath been assigned for the next general, council, as was done in the council of Basil; and the Papists grant that, Matth. 18. Tell the Church, is a warrant for a general council. 1. Because it is a mean for the saving of the spirits of all men, even Pastors and Apostles in the day of the Lord. 2. Because Apostles, though in prophesying and writing canonic Scripture, when they were inspired, could not err, yet otherwise they might err; and if Peter should have remained obstinate in his Judaizing, Gal. 2. and resused to hear Paul or the Church, he was to be excommunicated. 3. By the Church, Matth. 18. (saith d Schola Pa●s●r● de poust. Eccles. pag. 17. the School of Paris) cannot be understood, the Prelates of the Church only, because Christ did speak to Peter; and saith Almain and Gerson, Peter cannot be both an accuser, a witness, and a Judge. 4. There is a power of the keys to bind and lose, given immediately by Christ to all the rulers of the Catholic or universal Church visible; Ergo, the exercise of this power, though it be sometimes (physice) impossible, because of the corruption of man's nature, there being bloody wars in Christendom, yet it is morally lawful, for many things may be inconvenient, through man's wickedness, and so hic & nunc not expedient, which are morally lawful. 2. Conclusion; Every particular Pastor hath a power, though unproper, of dominion and authority, even out of a Synod, about the Acts of preaching and determining truth; according to the word of God, as Jer. 1. 10. See, I have this day set thee over the nations, and over the kingdoms, etc. 1 Tim. 6. 17. Charge them that are rich that they be not high minded, etc. 2 Tim. 4. 1. I charge thee before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead, etc. So any Pastor hath power of dominion and authority over a Synod, and Paul as a Pastor might preach, even before the council at Jerusalem passed their Synodical determination, Act. 15. that circumcision was not necessary, and that to obstaine from things strangled, from blood and fornication was necessary and lawful, yea and in preaching truth the Pastor is subject to no Synod. But the Pastor hath not full power of jurisdiction about his acts of preaching necessary truth. 1. Because the Church may for just causes deprive him from preaching. 2. Because he cannot use the censure of excommunication against those who refuse to receive his true and necessary doctrine, without the Church join her power of jurisdiction with him. 3. He, his alone, cannot in a Synod determine ecclesiastically, and in an authoritative Church power, that same truth which as a Pastor he determined, and with the power of pastoral dominion he pressed upon the consciences of the Church, yea of the whole Synod, because one man is not the Church, or Synod; and James his alone, Act. 15. v. 15. could but say, Wherefore my sentence is that ye trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned unto God, though this was the very word of God, which James as a Pastor, even as an ordinary Pastor might have preached in the name of God; yet is it not A Pastor may propone James the Apostles mind, aneut fornication, blood, etc. Act. 15. permodum consilii, as a counsel to some other Pastor, but it hath the power of a Synodical decree not from james, though an Apostle, but from the joint voices of the Synod; and it is not like that james as an Apostle said, Wherefore my sentence is, etc. as an Apostle he should have said as Paul doth, what I received of the Lord, that I delivered unto you, etc. the decree of the Church, which the Churches is to keep, Act. 16. 4. while it be determined by the Church. An example we may have possible not unlike to this. A man hath a power of dominion over his own proper lands and goods to use them in God, for his own use, but the supreme magistrate and Parliament hath a dominion of jurisdiction in a judicial sentence over those same lands to forfeit them for crimes committed against King and State: or this may clear it, Samuel hath a power immediately from God, to anoint David King, and in this he is not subject to the suffrages of the tribes of Israel, he hath a power of dominion here; but suppose we that Samuel live till God's time, when all Israel shall crown David King at Hebron, Samuel as a part of the Assembly of Israel, his alone, without the suffrages of Israel, could not make him King at Hebron. Hence we may see how weak the assertion of our brethren is, who e Answer to 32. questions ad qu●st. 18. say, That Synods should have power to bind the Churches (say they) we see not; f Bellarmine de council. lib. 1. c. 18. Est tantum (inquiunt) inquisitie quaedam & dictae sententiae ministratoria et limitata, ita ut tantum valeat decretum concilii quantum valeat ejus raise. Bellarmine indeed holdeth so. But orthodox writers hold that the sentence of counsels is but a certain inquisition of the truth, and a ministerial and limited sentence, so that the decree of a council is of as great force as the reason thereof, so saith Amesius and g junius animadversan Bellarm. lib. 1. de concilae. 18. Junius. But certainly this is a mere mistake of our brethren, as if they were not orthodox writers, but conspirers against the truth with Bellarmine, who hold the authority of Synods. The essential end (to speak so) of Synods is unity, and the eschewing of schism; and we doubt not, but Peter, Paul, James had in their Sermons, and doctrine determined that same verity, to wit, that the Law of Moses and ceremonies was a yoke not to be laid upon the Christian Churches, yet it was not a decree for unities sake, and fuller authority binding the Churches to observe these, as Act. 16. 4. while it was determined in a Synod, Act. 5. 24. 25. But truly we hold nothing in this common with Jesuits and Papists, for we condemn not that in Bellarmine, that he holdeth that lawful Synods (for of such we dispute with him) do bind the Churches to obedience in God, to their decrees, not because they say it, but because they say it authoritatively from God's Word; authority of Synods no orthodox writers deny, authority official as the representative Church of Christ they have, He that heareth you heareth me, he that despiseth you despiseth me; Where two or three are gathered together (in a Synod, say our Divines) I will be amongst them. But authority objective they have not, so as what they say, because they say it, therefore the very matter, object and thing said by them, is no less the Word of God, then if the Prophets and Apostles by divine inspiration had said it; at least it is not infallibly true, because they say it, for that we disclaim, and it is that authority of Synods, which Bellarmine and Papists hold, Counsels (saith h Bellarm. de council. authorit. lib. 2. c. 12. Concilia & Scripturae sunt ut raque infallibilis ●●rttatis. Bellarmine) and Scripture are both infallible, and i Rhemists in art. 15. 8. 10. the Jesuits of Rheims, and k Lorinus co●●ent. in Act. 15. Lorinus the Jesuit said counsels are infallible, the holy Spirit is there present; l Grati●n. dis. 19 in Canon. Gratian said, all the decretal Epistles of Popes, and m dist. 20 can decretale●. the Canons of the Counsels are of equal authority with the Scriptures: and their o Gregorius 1. Epist. 24. Gregorius said he received with the same reverence and authority the four general Counsels, & the four Evangelist●; it is certain (saith p Suarez de tripl. virtut. disp. 5. sect. 7. men. 6. ce●●issimum est cencilium genera●e, in quo ●aes●ns adest pontifex, esse infallibilem regulam fidei. Suarez) that a Council is an infallible rule of faith, and q Turre●●●m. su●n. de Ecclesi. lib. 3. Turrecremata saith the same: It is certain (saith r Bailius Catechis. trac. 2. q. ●. concilia nobis in di●ficultatibus sunt instar ora●ulorum. Bailius) Counsels are ●● the Oracles of God to us in difficulties, so saith s Ca●etan. t●ac. de author. Pontis c. 9 Cajetanus, t 〈◊〉 i● Canus de loc. come. l. 5. c 5. Canus, and u 〈◊〉 de ●alent, tom. 1. disp q. 1. de objecto fi●●: p●●ct 7. Gregorius de Valentia; we hold the authority of Counsels, but ascribe to them as much power over the conscience, as there is reason in them from God's Word, and no more. But 2. This is a weak reason, counsels have no power to command obedience, because their Canons and Decrees are of no more force, than they have reason from God's Word. For 1. Friends, brethren, equals, by that have no warrant to rebuke, because their rebukes have but as much force, as they have reason from the word of God, for the reason is alike in both; lawful Pastors cannot command obedience in the Lord, your independent Congregations cannot command that which bindeth the Church to obedience, because the word or a commandment of a Pastor, or your independent Church is only a commandment ministerial and limited, and hath as much force as there is reason in it, from the Word of God; yea the Church of Corin●h hath not then the power of the Lord Jesus to excommunicate the incestuous person, nor the Church of Thyatira, to cast out and condemn Jezabell the false prophetess; nor do these commandments of the Synod, or Church assembly have any power to bind the Churches to obedience, because these commandments and decrees of censure are but ministerial and limited, and in so far only of force, as they have reason from the Word of God, as you say. 3. Conclusion: There is an authoritative power in Synods, whereby they may and do command in the Lord the visible Churches, in their bounds; the whole Churches are subject to the ordinance and decree of the Church, Act. 1. where with common consent of a Synodical meeting, Mathias is ordained an Apostle; Ergo, all the Churches are to take him for an Apostle. This argument cannot be repelled, because the Apostles by their extraordinary power did choose Mathias. Because, 1. they themselves cite this place to prove the people's power ordinary, which is to endure to Christ's second coming, in calling and electing their own officers and Elders. 2. Almain x Almain de potest. eccles. et civ. a Papist allegeth the place with good reason, to prove that a general council is above Peter or the Pope, because Peter would not choose Mathias without consent of the Apostles and Church. 3. If this was extraordinary that Mathias was chosen, why then is the vow and consent of the Church sought? for there is nothing extraordinary and Apostolic flowing from an Apostolic spirit, which is concluded or done by the spirit ordinary of the Church of believers. So also Act. 6. If the Apostles did not by the ordinary and Synodical power of ordinary Pastors choose seven Deacons, how do they first require that the Churches of Grecians and Hebrews should seek out seven men? v. 3. and did ordain them with the common consent of the whole multitude, v. 5. Act. 15. A Synod of more Churches give decrees which oblige the Churches, v. 28. ch. 16. v. 4. Ergo, Synods have authority over the Churches. Those who say this Synod is not a pattern for after Synods, say far aside; for their reason is, this was 1. An Apostolic Synod; 2. the holy Ghost was here; 3. the thing determined was canonic Scripture. But this is a way to elude all the promises made to Pastors in the word, when as they are first made to Apostles: this promise, Behold I am with you to the ●nd of the world, and this, I will send you the other Comforter, who 〈◊〉 lead you in all truth, cannot be made to faithful Pastors, and the Christian Church, that now is, for it is certain Christ is otherwise present with his Apostles, then with his Pastors after them. And that he gave them a tongue & a spirit when they were before the counsels and rulers, as to Apostolic men, as Act. 4. 8. 9, 10. Act. 5. 29. as Christ promised, Matth. 10. 19 20. Luk. 21. 13, 14, 15. for they were full of the holy Ghost before rulers, but by our brethren's doctrine, it shall follow none of these promises belong to Pastors now adays in the like, because no pastors now are Apostles. Surely this were to fetter and imprison many glorious promises within the pale of the only Apostolic Church; and because Christ ascending to heaven sent down the Apostolic spirit to his Apostles to write and preach canonic Scripture, it shall follow he fulfilleth that promise, John 16. 13. to none now adays, because none have the Apostolic spirit in the manner and measure that the Apostles had. Yea further it is canonic Scripture that the Apostles at the last supper did show forth the Lords death till be come again; therefore it shall follow that we have no warrant to show forth the Lords death till he come again. 2. But that the Apostles in an ecclesiastic way did determine in the Synod for our imitation, and not in an Apostolic way, is clear by many evidences in the text, as Act. 15. 2. Paul and Barnabas were sent commissioners to the Apostles and Elders about this question: Paul as an Apostle needed not be sent to know more of the matter than he knew, as an Apostle; for as an Apostle he knew the whole mystery of the Gospel, Gal. 1. 16. 17. Ephes. 3. 4, 5. Ergo, he was sent to the Synod as a Pastor, and that as an ordinary Pastor. 2. They came together, v. 6. to consider of this business, but as Apostles they needed not the help of a Synod. Ergo, they came together as ordinary Pastors for the Churches after imitation. 3. There was much debating and disputing, v. 7. about the matter. 4. They set down their minds and sentences in order, one after another, as Peter first, v. 7. 8. then Barnabas and Paul, v. 12. then James, v. 13. and to James his sentence the whole Council agreeth, v. 22. Now what the Apostles, as Apostles and from an infallible Spirit do, they do it not by seeking light and help one from another. 5. The Decree of the Council is a thing that Apostles, Elders, and Brethren, and the whole Church resolveth after much dispute, v. 22. But all these, especially brethren, and the whole believers, as our Brethren say, do not join themselves with the Apostles, either to write canonic Scripture, or to give their consent to the writing of it, therefore they do consent by a synodal authority, for the after imitation of the Churches. Also there be reasons of moment for Synods; and 1. if according to the Law of nature, and nations, no man can be a Judge in his own cause, then are appeals from the Eldership of one congregation, when they are a party to the accused person, natural, and from a Session to the Presbyteries and Synods of many more Elders. But the former is reason, nature, Law of Nations. Ergo, so is the latter. 1. It is best reason which hath most of Scripture. Paul and Barnabas, Act. 15. 1. 2. had no small disputation with those who said circumcision was necessary; finding their parties could not be Judges. They appeal to a general council at Jerusalem, where were the Apostles and Elders; The Church of the Grecians and the Church of the Hebrews strive, neither of them can judge other, and both appeal to a higher judicatory, to the twelve Apostles, and their own Churches meeting with them, and there is the matter determined a●ent helping the poor by Deacons; if the Judge do wrong, and one particular congregation shall oppress one sincere and sound believer, what remedy hath the care of Christ provided for this? that the oppressors may be edified by Church censures, and the oppressed freed, and delivered by remedy of discipline of Christ, whose it is to judge the poor of the people, and to save the children of the needy, Ps. 72. 4. Now it is known that Diotrephes doth sometime excommunicate, a 3. Epist. Joh 9 10 〈◊〉. 21. 41. and the evil servant ruleth all, b Hieronymus co●, Lucif. & ●n Gal. 5. Hieronymus saith Arrians ruled all in the days of Constantius and Valens: c Basilius' ●● Epist. nobs 〈◊〉 dicere licet, quod in hoc, tempore non ●●●, neque princep●, neque prophets, neque 〈◊〉 que oblatio, ●●que incensu●●, ● Basil saith, we may say in our time, that there is neither Prince, nor Prophet, nor Ru●●●, nor oblation, nor incense: d Athanasius lib. adsali●. 〈◊〉. agend. Athanasius and e ●ineen●●us Lyrinens. ha●s. c. 6. Vincentius Lirinent complained that it was in the Arrians times, as with the Church and Prophets in the days of Elias: and amongst Papists f Occam. dial. pak. 3. l. 3●. c. 13. Occam g Onus ecclesiae, c. 42. the author of Onus ecclesiae, and h Pra●e Pic. Miran. orat. ad Leon. 10. Picus Mirandula complain, there was in their time, no saith, no truth, no Religion, no discipline, no modesty; but all sold offices, Churches, dignities, and benefices, and that ambitious Popes spill all, the Clergy entered by Simony, ruled by Simony, the holy place corrupted. At which times all the godly were crying for a free general council, as a remedy against the corruption of inferior judicatories. Sa●ano●ala reputed a Prophet, counselled Charles the eighth of France, to reform the Church, as he would return from Italy, with honour, as saith i Philippus de Coming. l. 8. c. 2. Philip de Comines. k Gerson de coxil. unius obedient. Gerson pleadeth for the necessity of a general Council. l Genebra●d. Chron. l. 8. an. 991. pag. 554. Genebrard saith, for an hundred and fifty years, Popes, to the number of fifty, had made defection, from the faith and godliness of their Ancestors. m Aventinus annal. Boior. l. 4 pag. 322. Aventinus maketh the same complaint, and n Almain. in questio. vesperti. Almain also, that Prelates were more eaten up with the zeal of money, than the zeal of God's house. Is there not need then of a general Council? Hence came also appeals from the Pope. The Emperor Lodovicus Bavarus (saith o German. Chron. l. 4. pag. 227. the Germane Chronicle) appealed from Pope John 22. misinformed to a general Council, and the Pope better informed, and the crime was, because he had taken the title of Emperor before he was confirmed by the Pope, for which he was excommunicated. Sigismond Duke of Austria appealed from Pope Pius the second, to the next succeeding Pope, and a general Council under him, for the Pope excommunicated Sigismond, because he kept back Cardinal Cusan from the Bishopric of Brixen within his Dominion; for the Bishopric was given to him, by a commendam, by the Pope: See p Aene is Silvius Epist. 14. Aeneas Silvius. Philip the fourth appealed from wicked Boniface the eighth, to the Sea Apostolic then vacant, and to a future Council; so q Platina in Bonifac. 8. Platina relateth. The University of Paris appealed from Leo the tenth, who wickedly condemned the Council of Basill, to a future Council, as you find it in the treatise called r Fasciculus rerum expetendarum. Fasciculus, etc. The Archbishop of Cullen excommunicated by Paul the third, appealed to a lawful Council in Germany, because the Pope stood accused of heresy and idolatry, as s Sleidan come. l. 18. Sleidan saith. The t Can. 23. q. 3. ne quis in propria causa judicet. See also how great Romanists have made Counsels a terror to wicked Popes and vicious Prelates, as Fanormitan decretal. d. elec. signif. Cusan. concord. l. 2. c. 3. c. 5. c. 10. c. 13. Ocoam. dialog. pa●. 3 ch. 3. c. 13 Almain. vesp. question. gloss of the Canon Law saith, the Pope cannot be Judge in his own cause; and we all know how justly Luther appealed from Leo the tenth, to a general Council: all which saith that the like is warranted by the Law of nature, where a particular Eldership and congregation is accused of scandals, that superior Synods there must be to discuss such causes. And the good use of counsels you may see in one: The Council of Constance, Sess. 11. art. 67. condemned John 23. because he taught there was no life eternal, Neque●aliam, post hanc, vitam; pertinaciter credidit animam hominis cum corpore mori, & extingui, ad instar animalium brutorum, dixitque mortuum semel esse etiam in novissimo die minime resurrecturum. The necessity of Assemblies when common enemies trouble the Church, prove that Christ hath instituted Synods. And 1. our present Author reasoneth from the Church's necessity, Synods may convene to examine (saith he) either corrupt opinions or suspicious practices; and citeth for this the Council of Jerusalem, Act. 15. Now this council did authoritatively command, Act. 15. 28. Act. 16. 4. Act. 20. 19 and not give advice or counsel only. 2. If by the Law of nature, and by virtue of the communion of Saints, Churches convened, may give advise; then say I, as communion of counsels and advises is lawful, so by the Law of nature communion of authoritative power is lawful. As after the eye (saith w Almain de authorit. eccles. cap. ult. prop 2. Almain) seeth the danger of the body, it should give warning to the rest of the members to use their power. And this power (saith he) denunciative, or by way of charity, though not authoritative, is in private persons for the conveening of a Council. As after (saith Almain x Almain ibid. propos. 4. Si enim ligata fores dextera manus, aut ad mutum imaginationis pertinaciter nolles vacare defensient co●poris, apud simstram tune defendendi corpus tota residebit authoritas. E●si una pars provincia, inimicis volentibus earn destruere, nollet suceu●rere, quis dubitat reliquam partem, quamvis sit minor numero, pro tunc habere authoritatem totam provinciam defendend●, etc. in the same place) any is instructed by a skilled Physician of that which is necessary, for the health and safety of the whole body, he is obliged to use that necessary means, not now by virtue of the precept, or rather counsel and advise of the Physician, but by virtue of the precept and authoritative power of the Law of nature, for the safety of his body: yea further (saith he) if the right band were fettered with chanizees, or should refuse pertinaciously at the nod of the imagination to defend the body, than the whole power of defending the body, should remain in the left hand. And certainly this is most natural, if a foreign enemy should invade a whole Land, or any part of a Land, the whole Land by the Law of nature were obliged with joint authority and power to resist that common enemy. Now seeing a number of consociated sister Churches make one visible Church body, having visible communion together, as the Author granteth in the Sacrament of the Lords Supper, which is (saith he) a seal of the communion of all the Churches of the Saints, and in other external Chap. 6. Sect. 1. Bellarm. de Pontif. Rom. l. 2. c. 27. saith the Council of Chalcedon, is of no force. Azorius instit. moral. to. 2. l. 5. c. 12. A lawful Council going a nail breadth from the instruction of the Pope, may err. acts of Church communion, as hearing the Word, exhorting, rebuking, comforting one another, then are all these visible Churches with united authority and Church power, as Churches, and not as Christian's only, to conveen and condemn a common heretic infecting all or any part of that visible Church body; and if any one Church or Congregation under the pretence of plenitude of independency of government within themselves, should refuse to join with the whole, yet the authoritative power of Synodical judging and condemning such a heretic, doth reside by the Law of nature, in the rest of the body. If there be a communion of gifts, there is also a communion of authority. And if a nation have intrinsically authoritative power under a Prince to repel a common enemy, for the safety of the whole, then hath a visible body of many Churches in joining one external communion of sisterly consociation, under one Christ, one Church, power to repel a scandalous heretic, who is a common enemy to the whole Churches visible. This Argument is grounded upon the necessity of Synods; our brethren are forced to acknowledge their necessity, by way of counselling, and advising, but Synods as Synods to be necessary, they think popish. The best popish council we read of, is that of Basil, where it was ordained that a Concilium Constant. sess. 39 a general council should be holden within five years next following, the next council within seven years, and always after that, every ten years; and in the b Concilium Basil. sess 11. and sess. 11. council of Basil the Pope is discharged to transgress that time of convocating a council. Now the counsels as counsels are no popish devices, but rather hated by right down, and well died Papists, as is clear by Gersons complaint c Gerson de eccles. potest. consid 10. who saith omission of general counsels is the Church's plugue; a lover of reformation d Fran Za barrel tract. de schism. Franc. Zabarell saith, wicked Pipes neglecting general counsels, have undone the Church. The learned e Review of the counsel of Trent, l. 5. c. 6. by a French Papist. author of the review of the council of Trent saith gravely, It is but a theating of Christ●ndome above board, to leave the judgement of the necessity of general counsels to the Popes will. and no marvel then Popes decline counsels; for the council of Pisan (as f Bellarmiu. de council. l. 1. c. ●. Bellarmine granteth) was convocated against Julius the second that wicked man, and therefore was rejected by Julian the second in the council of g Concilium Lateran. sess. 2. & 3. Lateran, yet this council and all the decrees thereof was approven and confirmed by Alexander the first, who was accounted lawful Pope; and (b) Platina (a) Platina in G●egorio. 12. faith, this council was approved, and that in it Gregory 12. and Benet 13. were deprived of their papal dignity, all nations assenting, except neither Spain, the King of Scotland, And because counsels are against Papists and Popes, therefore they have taken the sting out of counsels, as Ge●a●dus prove●●, to 6. pag. 611. and Earl of Arminac, who followed Pope Benet: and for approbation of the counsels of Pisa, Constance, and Basil, which censured Popes and deprived them, and subjected them to a general council, let any man read the i Review of the council of Trent, l. 4. ●. 7. Review of the Council of Trent, and Bellarmine is therein fully confuted. Also general counsels have condemned the doctrine of the Church of Rome, for which they think them not necessary, as the council of Frankford, saith k Bellarmin. de council. 〈◊〉. Bellarmine, and Basil and Constance are not approved in all, because they favour not the Roman Churches doctrine and the Pope's supremacy above Counsels; yea and general counsels cannot be simply necessary (saith he l Bellarmin. 16. c. 10. quemadmodum 〈◊〉 annis illis 300. ecclesia sine conciliis generalibus incolwnis mansi●, sice●iam potu●sse● aliis C C C. & ●ursus aliis DC. atque aliis mille permanere. because the Catholic Church remained safe, the first three hundreth years after Christ, without general counsels, and might have remained safe other three hundreth years, and so a thousand years, and faults may be amended by the Laws of Popes, and by provincial counsels (saith he;) and their Costerus m Costerus in Enchir●d. de Pon●if pag 135. saith, the Pope himself without counsels hath condemned many heresies, and this is a shorter and more compendious way, then by counsels, for it is hard and laborious to convene counsels, therefore the Church's salvation doth not depend upon them, saith n Bellarmin. de Pontif. R m. l. 1. c. 9 Bellarmine, yea it is in vain (saith the Jesuit o pererius come. in Exo. 19 disp. 2. n. 14. Pererius) to do that by many, which may as conveniently be done by fewer, he meaneth counsels may be wanted. Our brethren rejecting counsels, and their necessity at all, in this sideth with Papists. Though p Calvin. instit. l. 4. c. 9 sect. 13. Calvin saith, Nullum esse nec melius, nec certius remedium, that there is no better, nor surer remedy to find out the truth, than a Synod of true Pastors. And Arminians and Socinians think that Synods are neither necessary, nor profitable; for as our brethren here give no authority to Synods, but to counsel and advise: the very same is taught by a grand Arminian q Episcopius disp. 32. thes 4. Episcopius, who saith, Synods are not profitable, for the establishing the truth, or rooting out of errors and heresies, but only to advise, sister, examine, and by reasons and arguments to persuade, and therefore are not profitable, either for the being, or for the well being of the Church. Synodici conventus nec ad ●esse, nec ad bene esse ecclesiae absolute necessarii sunt; ad veritatis divinae stabilimentum, & hereseon, errorumque averruns itionem vel exstirpationem, eo tantum casu utiles esse statuimus, si ad deliberandum, ventilandum, examinandum, & rationibus argumentisque persuadendum congregentur; litium finem facere, circa religionis capita, aliter quam persuadendo, est tyrannidem in ecclesiam invehere, & libertatem conscientiarum, si non omnino tollere, saltem vehementer astringere & ligare. To ●nd controversies in the Church any otherwise, then by persuading, is to bring in a tyranny in the Church of Christ, and to hurt, if not altogether to evert the liberty of consciences of men. And the Arminians in their Apology r Remonst. in Apol. c. 25. fol. 289. teach us that a decision or a determination of a Synod obligeth not those who were not present at the making of that decision. And so have I shown from s Answorth Animadver. pag. 20. Remon. 16. Decisi●nem factam in Synodo non leviter habendam, quin & merito inclinare animos nostros ad acriorem decisionis factae considerationem, sed ut ea cuiquam pros●ribat aut diffentientem cogat ad assensum aut obsequium, ratio non permi●tis. Answorth, and our brethren's doctrine that they teach, people cannot assent, without tyranny of consciences, to the decrees of the Elders, at the making whereof they were not present, and present, consenters. 2. A Synods decision doth incline the mind to consider of the decision, but doth not compel authoritatively to consent and obey. 3. This is violence to the conscience. 4. To fetch expositions of the word from confessions of faith, or decrees of counsels is dangerous; and this is the doctrine of Socinians: for t Theoph. Nicolaid. in refu. trac. de eccls c. 9 f. 79. Hac ratione Synodica errores aut controversias non ●olli, sed tantum vim inferri conscientiis nostris. Theophil. Nicolaides saith, the Church in a Synod cannot decide controversies, because she may err, neither can she take them away, for that were to do violence to men's consciences: and u Smalcius in refut. lib. de errorih●. Arrian. 1. c. 1. fol. 6. Smalcius saith, this were (tacit) quietly to leave the writings of the Apostles, and commend humane traditions. So our brethren give nothing, but a power of counselling and moral persuading to Synods, and no authority to command, because (say they x Answer to the 8. quest. so the Papists. Pighius lib. 6. c. 10. the eccles. Hierarch. calleth general counsels, Constantini Magni inventum, a devise of Constantine without any warrant of the word of God; and john Weemes of Craghton denyeth counsels to be necessary by any commandment of God, de regis primatu, l 1. c. 7. pag. 74. Cleme●s the seventh said, Counsels are dangerous, if the Pope's power be called in question. in their answers to the 32. questions) Synods may err, and their decrees have no more force than they fetch reason from God's Word; and truly our brethren with Socinians and Arminians here do fall in many foul errors. For, 1. all preaching of the Word, and all power of authority of Pastors commanding in the name of the Lord, faith and obedience, is only moral and to persuade, and not authoritative to command, because Pastors may as well err in preaching, as the Church may err in Synods. 2. Because what Pastors preach hath no more force over the conscience, than they have warrant to speak from the Word of God, as is clear, Ezek. 3. 7. Gal. 1. 9 1 Thess. 2. 13. 2. All confessions of faith that are set down by lawful Synods are null. 3. Liberty of prophesying, and a Cassandrian licence of believing in things controverted, any thing in this or on that side, is lawful. 4. A perpetual doubting of conscience, except in two or three points fundamental, that all Christians believe, yea and all heretics, is brought in in the Church. 5. The Lords working with the word preached, is but by way of moral persuasion. 6. But our Divines hold the authority of Synods, and of Pastors preaching the Word from the Scriptures: z Matth. 18. 17. Matth. 28. 19 Joh. 20. 25. Act. 15. 28. 29. 1 Cor. 7. 25. 35 and 14. 29. 32, 33. Gal. 6. 16. Coloss. 2. 7. 8. but I find both our brethren and Arminians do misken the authority of the Church, and of Pastors in both Preaching and Synods, for they think to set up the authority of Synods, is to cast down the authority of the Scriptures, because things to be distinguished are confounded; for we deny that Synods or Pastors have peremptory, absolute, and illimited authority, and power to determine as they please in Sermons and Synods, their Power is limited according to the Word of God, and their word is only to be believed, in so far as it is agreeable to the Word of God; but hence it followeth not, that Pastors and Synods have no power and authority at all to determine, but only to counsel, advise and persuade; for private Christians, our equals and inferiors, have power to counsel, persuade, and advise in a private way by teaching, a Col. 3. 16. admonishing, b 1 Thes. 5. 11. 12. Heb. 3. 13. exhorting, c I. evit. 19 17. rebuking, d Mal. 3. 16. conference. They build upon the reproving of events of counsels by e Nazienzen ad Procopium epist. 55. alias 42. Ego, si vera scribere oporiet, ita am●no affectus sum, ut omnia ●piscoporum concilia fugiam, quoniam nulli●s concilii fine us 〈◊〉 faustuinque vidi. Nazianzen, which is not against their authority and true fullness, and he speaketh of the counsels of his time, and it is not to be denied but f Panormitan de electrine, C. significast●. Panormitan saith well, dictum unius privati est praeferendum dicto papae, si ille moveretur melioribus rationibus veteris & novi Testamenti; and g Augustine contra Do●●tist. l. 2. c. 3. priora concilia a pos●erioribus cor●●gi Augustine saith, latter counsels may correct older counsels; and Petrus de h Petrus de Monte in Monarchia Concil. terti●. nu. 1. Monte under Eugenius complained that there was no godly and learned Bishops in his time, to determine truth in a Synod, when Doctors, Professors, Bishops, and all have sworn obedience to the Pope, to their Occumenick counsels, and to the wicked decrees of the council of Trent, as the Bull of Pius the fourth requireth. But before I say any thing of the second question anent the magistrates power, I shall close the other ways of communion of sister Churches. CHAP. 6. SECT. 5. Three other ways of communion of sister Churches. A fifth way of communion (saith the author) is by helping and contributing to sister Churches, Prophets, and Teachers, when Manuscrip. they are in scarstie, as Act. 11. 29. Rom. 15. 25. 26. Ans. This way of communion we acknowledge, but we see not how this communion can stand, without the authority of Synods; if Churches be not united in one visible body, they cannot authoritatively send help of teachers one to another; and this is a direct acknowledgement of a visible union of more Churches in one visible body; for the Church of Jerusalem authoritatively sent Pastors, Paul and Barnabas, as Pastors to the Gentiles, you will have them sent as gifted men, and that they are not Pastors while they be ordained, and chosen by these Churches to which they go. A sixth way of communion (saith he) is by admonition; if a sister Church or any member thereof be scandalous, we are then to send Elders to warn them to call Archippus or any other Elder, to take heed to do their duty; if the Elders or Church be remiss in consuring, we are to take the help of two or three Churches moe; if yet that Church ●eare not, we are to tell a Congregation of Churches together; or if the offence be weighty, we are to withdraw the right hand of fellowship from such a Church, and to forbear all such sort of exercise of mutual brotherly communion with them, which all the Churches of Christ are to walk in, one towards another. Answ. You acknowledge that same order which Christ commandeth, Matth. 18. to gain a brother, is to be kept in the gaining of scandalous Churches. But 1. What warrant have you of the two first steps of Christ's order against scandalous Churches, and to omit the third judicial and authoritative way, when sister Churches turn obstinate? Christ's order for gaining the scandalous is as necessary in the third, as in the former two. 2. Why do you allow the third in a sort? for if the sister Church will not be admonished, you will have her rebuked, before more sister Churches, that are convened, that is, before a Synod; is it because you think there is more authority in a Synod, then in one sister Church? then you think there is authority in a Synod; for by good Logic, we may infer the positive degree from the comparative, and there is no other reason why the matter should come before a Synod, for all in a Synod wanteth authority and power to censure, as you think, yet to complain to a Synod is an acknowledgement of the authority of a Synod, as Christ's order saith, Matth. 18. 17. If he neglect to hear them, tell it to the Church. 3. What is the withdrawing of brotherly communion from obstinate sister Churches, but as a Amesius, l. 4. c. ●. n. 26. de conscient. Amesius saith well, excommunication by proportion and analogy? Ergo, say I, in this a Synod hath a Synodical authority over the Churches within the bounds of the Synod by proportion, for who can inflict a punishment of a Church censure, by proportion answerable to excommunication, but a Church, or a Synodical meeting, which hath the power of the Church by proportion? Amesius would prove that a particular Church cannot be excommunicated, because a Church cannot be cast out of communion with itself, for than she should be cast out of herself. But this argument with reverence of so learned and godly a man, proveth only that a particular Church cannot excommunicate herself, which I grant, but it concludeth not, but a particular obstinate Church may be excommunicated out of the society of all sister Churches, who meeting in a Synod in the name of Jesus Christ have power to save the spirits of sister Churches in the day of the Lord, and are to edify them by counsel and rebuking, as the Author granteth, and why not by an authoritative declaring that they will have no communion with such an obstinate sister or rather daughter Church? We have never, saith the Author, been put to the utmost extent Manuscript. of this duty, the Lord hitherto preventing by his grace, yet it is our duty. The Church, Cant. 8. taken care not only for her own members, but also for her little sister, that had no breasts, and would have taken care, if having breasts they had been distempered with corrupt milk: if the Apostles had a care of all the Churches, 1 Cor. 8. 11. is that spirit of grace and love dead with them? aught not all the Churches to care for sister Churches, if not, virtute officii, by virtue of an office, yet intuitu charitatis, for charity's sake? Answ. That you have never been put to these duties to the utmost, will never prove that the government is of God, for Corinth, Ephesus, Pergamus, Thyatira, which were glorious Churches by your own confession, were put to a necessity of the utmost extent of these duties; yea it proveth your government to be rather so much the worse, because Christ's government is opposed by secret enemies in the Church. 2. You make the spirit of love in a pastoral care over other Churches to be dead, because none have any pastoral care over any other Churches, but the particular Congregation over which they are Pastors, and pastoral love to unconverted ones, as pastoral, you utterly deny. The last way of communion (saith the Author) is by propagation or multiplication, which is, as the Apostles had immediate calling from Manuscript. God to travel through the world, and to plant Churches, so have particular Churches given to them immediately from Christ, the fullness of measure of grace, which the enlargement and establishment of Christ's kingdom doth require, that is, when the Beehive a parishional congregation is surcharged, they have power to send forth their members, to enter, by Covenant, in Church-state amongst themselves, and may commend to them such able gifted Ministers, as they think may be Ministers in that young Church. Answ. 1. This way of enlarging Christ's kingdom is defective. 1. It showeth the way of enlarging the number of invisible Churches, and multitudes of converts into new incorporations, but doth show no way how to plant souls who were non-converts, and branches of the wild olive in Christ Jesus, and to make new visible Churches; but it is certain that the Apostles as Apostles, and as Pastors, by virtue of their office converted obstinate sinners to the faith of Christ, and planted them in a visible Church, consisting of professors of the faith, partly converted, partly not converted; but the pastors by your doctrine have no power as Pastors, or by any Pastoral authority, to plant the Gospel where it hath never been, that pastoral spirit is dead with the Apostles; and in this, contrary to all reason and sense, and contrary to the Scriptures, you make private Christians the successors of the Apostles to plant Churches, and to convert souls, and to make them fit materials for the visible Church of regenerate persons; for Pastors as Pastors, and visible Churches as visible Churches do nothing at all to the multiplying of Churches, seeing Pastors and visible Churches as they are such, by your doctrine, are but nurses to give suck to those who are already converted, but not fathers to convert them; for private Christians, or pastors as Christians gifted to prophesy, not as Pastors, do multiply Churches, and convert men to Christ, as you teach, now we all know that nurses as nurses do not propagate, or by generation multiply people in the Commonwealth, that fathers and mothers only can do; your Churches have no ministerial breasts, but to give suck to babes who are already borne: but we see by your doctrine no ministerial power of Pastors or Churches to send forth members to enter in a Church covenant, or to enter in a new Church relation of a daughter, or a sister visible Church; if they send a number to be a new Church, your Pastors or visible Church did not multiply them, it is presumed they were converts, before they were members of the visible Church, which now sendeth them out; and if they be multiplied in the bosom of your visible Church and converted, they were not truly members of that visible Church before their conversion, and also that they were not converted by any public ministry, but by private Christians gifted to prophesy, who are the only successors of the Apostles to plant visible Churches: but what pastoral authority have you to send them forth to be a new visible Church? none at all? they have as believers power to remove from you, and because of multiplication, to make themselves a new Church, and this ministerial power of making themselves a new Church they have not from you, but from their fathers who converted them, so that you make a visible Church within a visible Church, but not a Church begotten or borne of a visible Church, as a child of the mother; and we desire a word of God, either precept, promise, or practise of such a Church multiplication, man's word is not enough. 2. We hold that the sending of the Apostles to all the world was not in itself, that which essentially distinguisheth the Apostle from the now ordinary Pastor, who is fixed to a single Congregation, but the gift of tongues to preach to all the world upon the Lord's intention to send the Gospel to all nations, that as many as were chosen to life, might believe, was that which essentially differenceth the Apostle from the ordinary pastor, together with a special revelation of God, to go to such and such people, to Macedonia, and not yet to Bythinia. And now seeing these two are taken away, the ordinary Pastors which now are, have as Pastors a sufficient calling to preach the Gospel to all nations, to whom by God's providence they shall come, and can understand their language, whether of their own Congregation or not. Neither is a Pastor tied as a Pastor by God's Word, to one only Congregation, for than it should be unlawful for a Pastor as a Pastor to plant a new Church; but shall it be lawful for private Christians to plant new Churches, who are not the Apostles successors, and yet it shall be unlawful for Pastors, who are the undoubted successors of the Apostles, to plant new Churches? I would think that admirable doctrine, for so you give to private Christians that which you make essential to the Apostles, and you deny it to the undoubted successors of the Apostles, to wit, to Pastors. But we hold a lawful Pastor is a Pastor in relation to all the world, with this distinction, he is by Christ's appointment and the Churches a Pastor to all congregations, to plant and water, and preach, but by special designation of God's providence, and the Church's appointment designed and set apart for such a determinate flock, just as the Apostles in general were made Pastors to all the world, Matth. 28 19 Go teach all nations, but by special revelation and Apostolic appointment, Peter was appointed the Apostle of the Jews, Paul of the Gentiles, Gal. 2. 9 yet Paul was a Pastor in relation to the Jews, and Peter also in relation to the Gentiles: so by special revelation, Act. 16. they are forbidden to preach the word in Bythinia, and commanded to preach it elsewhere; and for this cause, pious antiquity, as Morton a Morton Apol. par. 2. c. 14. pag. 422. observeth, called some learned father's Pastors of the World, b Russinus l 2. ●ist. c. 26. Athanasius is saluted Pontifex maximus, as Russinus saith, and Origen magister ecclesi●rum, master of the Churches, so c Hieronymus de loc. hele●o. Hieronymus, and Cyprian totius orbis praeses, Cyp●ian the Bishop of all the world, yea and Pope, so d Nazianz. Seimon. de Cypriano. Nazianz. Hilarius is called by e Augustin l. 1. contr. Julian. Augustine insignis ecclesiae doctor, a renowned teacher of the Church, and f Nazianz. Epist. 10. ad Basilium. Nazianzenus calleth Basilius the light of the word, and g Damasc. de fid. orthod. l. 4. c. 17. Damascenus the light of the whole world, and h Theodoret. hist. l. 5. c. 32. Theodoret saith chrysostom is called totius orbis terrarum doctor, the Doctor and teacher of the whole world: all which titles saith evidently that antiquity believed never a Pastor, or Bishop, not to be a Pastor only in relation to the one single Congregation, whereof he is Pastor, but a Pastor in relation to the whole visible Church, though by designation of the Church his ministry be appropriated to one particular Church. Thus it is clear that our brethren deny all communion of Churches, while they confine a visible Church to one only single and independent Congregation, subjected in its visible government to Christ Jesus immediately, and to no universal visible Church or Synod on earth. Quest. II. Whether the Magistrate hath power to compel persons to a Church profession? Anent Magistrates sundry things are questioned to make presbyterial government odious. And first our brethren complain that our Churches are constitute by the authority of the Magistrate, i Robinson iustific. of separat. pag 374. Robinson saith, it was a presumptuous enterprise, that people were haled against their will into covenant with God, to swear obedience to the protestant Faith, being a profane multitude, living before in gross idolatry, and that by the authority of the supreme magistrate, for the commandment of the magistrate (say they) can make no members of the visible Church, or of Christ's body, because it is a voluntary act of obedience to Christ, that men adjoin themselves to the visible Church; Ergo, none can be compelled thereunto by the authority of the Magistrate; faith may be counselled, it cannot be compelled. For the clearing of this question, these considerations are to be weighed. 1. The Magistrate may compel to the means, and external acts of worship, and to desisting from external false worship of the false God, or of the true God worshipped in a false way, he cannot compel to internal acts of faith, love, and such like, as having no power over the conscience. 2. There is one consideration of a Heathen or Pagan nation which never received Christianity, and the true faith, and another consideration of a nation baptised and professing Christ. 3. A Magistrate may compel a heathen nation to the negative reverence of Christ in a indirect way, and that with the sword, though he cannot compel to the positive worshipping of him: if a Christian Prince subdue a Pagan nation, he cannot force them with the Sword to a positive receiving of the doctrine of the Gospel, but if it be a nation expressly blaspheming Christ, as the nation of the Jews now do, he may compel them to an abstinence from a professed blaspheming of Christ, because he is to use the sword against blasphemy. 4. The weapons of the Church as the Church are not carnal, but spiritual and mighty through God. 5. The compelling power of the Magistrate is terminated upon external worship as abstracted from either hypocrisy or sincerity in worship, 6. Though no man resist the Magistrate in a matter of religion, except in a hypocritical way, save only he who thinketh he hath reason 〈◊〉, and is led by the judgement and indictment of conscience to resist, ●et is not the in litement of conscience, but only the Word of God ●et rule of man's obedience, or resisting in actions, purposes & conversation. 1. Conclusion. Fire and sword, or war, or the coactive power of a magistrate is not God's way of planting the Gospel in a heathen nation, which never heard of the Gospel before. 1. Because the Apostles were commanded, by teaching the Gospel to all nations, Matth. 28. 19, 20. Mark. 16. 15. Act. 7. 8. and not by war, to spread the Gospel. 2. Because Christ's Kingdom is not of this world, for then his servants would fight for him, Joh. 18. 36. nor are the weapons of our warfare carnal, 2 Cor. 10. 4. nor is Christ's sword any other thing, than the Word of God, Rev. 19 15. Gal. 6. 17. And in this meaning, and with relation to the internal acts of sound believing, have the learned taught us, that, religio suaderi potest, cogi non potest: if these be the constitutions of a Clemens in constitut. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. Clemens, let it go for a truth in this sense, that God hath given liberty of will to men, not punishing them with temporal death, but calleth them to give an account of ●●eir doings, in the life to come: which yet cannot be universally true, except that the Author with Anabaptists take away the power of the civil magistrate; and b Athanasius. Athanasius meaned with us, when he citeth that, If any will come after me, let him take up his cross; to prove that the will cannot be compelled; and that of c Lactantius Inst it. l. 5. c. 19 Lactantius is approved by all, defendenda tamen religioest, non occidendo, sed moriendo, non saevitiâ, sed sapientiâ, non s●●lere, sed fide; illa enim malorum sunt, baec bonorum; & necesse est bonum in religione versari, non malum: Nam si sanguine, si tormentis, si malo religionem defendere velis, jam non defendetur illa, fed polluetur, & violabitur. Nihil est tam voluntarium quam religio, in qua si animus sacrificantis est eversus, jam sublata, jam nulla est: all which tendeth to this, that religion is like freewill, and freewill like a Virgin which cannot be ravished. Let that of d Tertul. Tertullian stand, Lex nostra non se vindicat ultore gladio● e Procopius in Arca. histor. Procopius saith that Justinian was blamed, because he compelled the Samaritans to embrace the Christian faith. 2. Conclusion. A Christian Prince subduing a heathen Nation, may compel them to desist from a negative dishonouring of Christ, and from an external false worship. Dan. 3. 29. Therefore I make a Decree, that every People, Nation, and Language, which speak any thing amiss against the God of Sadrach and Abednego, shall be cut in pieces, and their houses shall be made a dunghill. 2. The Magistrate beareth not the sword for nothing, or invaine, for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath on those who do evil, Rom. 13. 4. Therefore he should be God's Minister to execute wrath on those who dishonour Christ. Nor must we approve of that of Tiberius, f Ta●itus in Tiberio, De●rum in ●u●iae D●●s curae saint. that Gods take care of wrongs dene to themselves: and that of the Emperor Alexander, g l. 2. God. de ●eb. Ged. juris juran●ts contempia religio satis De●● ultorem habet. it's sufficient that the breach of an oath hath God to be the revenger. Yet the Emperor h In Lege nemo Codice de Pagan. Constantine commanded all the Churches of the Pagan Gods to be closed up, and i Ambr●sius Epist. 30. Ambrose and k Augustin. Epist. 48. Augustine both commended the fact; and Ferdinand King of Spain, commanded all the Jews, who would not turn Christians, to remove out of Spain. 3. Conclus. Where a Nation hath embraced the faith, and sworn thereunto in Baptism, it is lawful for the Magistrate to compel them to profess that truth to the which they have sworn in Baptism. 1. Because the Magistrate is a keeper of both Tables of the Law. Ergo, he may take care that these who are baptised, and sworn to be followers of Christ, should profess what they have sworn to profess. 2. Because the Magistrate may compel, ad actus imperatos, non ad actus elicitos, commanded and external acts of worship, though he have no power over the conscience to command the elicit acts of will and mind. 3. He may command to use the means of Religion, though he cannot force Religion itself: and this Jehoshaphat, Ezechiah, Asa, and Josiah, and other good Kings commanded, and in that are set forth to all Princes as patterns of zeal. 4. The most pungent argument of our brethren in the contrary is of no weight, because (say they) for one to adjoin himself to the visible Church in a profession of the faith, it is a supernatural work of Grace, and must be voluntary, else the Magistrate should compel men to hypocrisy, yea and he should, saith l Gregorius de Valentia to. 3. disp. 1. punc. 6. q. 10. de infidelita te arg.. 4. Gregorius de Valentia, following Cajetanus, indirectly concur to sacrilege, to profane the holy things of God; and fear of punishment maketh an action against the will, secundum quid, in some respect, and for the point of supernaturality of professing, m D●●andus 4. santen. d. 4. q. 6. 〈◊〉. 1. Durandus handleth it. Now (I say) that this is of no weight, because (as n Suarez, de 〈…〉 disp. 18. sect 2. n. 5. Suarez. saith) one may be compelled to hear the Word, who yet cannot be compelled to believe; so (say I) to make such a profession, as may constitute any one a member of the visible Church, is no supernatural act, though there be a moral obligation tying the professors to the supernatural sincerity of the act, yet there is no essential obligation, as touching the essence of a visible member tying him thereunto, and therefore the Magistrate may compel thereunto, and so o Antonius' 2. p. 111. 12 c. 2. Antonius following p Gregorius 7. Epist. 30. Gregorius do teach that an indirect compulsion to the faith is lawful; and the compelling power of the Magistrate is terminated upon the profession, not upon the hypocrisy of the profession; else it were as good an argument to prove that the Magistrate by the sword cannot compel subjects to abstain from murder, sorcery, perjury; because many in an hypocritical and servile manner, for fear of the Magistrates wrath, not for fear of God, do abstain from these ills, nor is their abstinence from worshipping idols, a thing of itself, as the Magistrate commandeth it, supernatural. Neither would men by the Covenant of the Lord, which King Asa did cause the people to swear, to wit, that they should seek the Lord God of their fathers, 2 Chron. 15. 12. be compelled, so as their seeking of God, should not be willingly performed. 5. This opinion is the way to Arminian liberty of conscience, that men in a Christian Commonwealth, may be of any Religion, and the Magistrate is to behold men as an indifferent spectator, not caring what religion they be of, whether they be Papists, Jews, Pagans, Anabaptists, Socinians, Macedonians, etc. which should infer, that the Magistrate were no nursefather of the true Church, nor yet a preserver of Religion, if men might be of any Religion. Neither is this the way (as saith q Robinson justif. of separa. pag. 224. Robinson) to the Papists implicit faith, when men believeth, as the Church believeth, though they know not what it is: nor is it a compelling of men (as he saith) to blasphemy, and apparent wickedness, because the Magistrate is not to compel to profession of the truth immediately, and without any foregoing information of the mind; for the Church is to teach and instruct in all the external acts of worship, before the Magistrate doth compel to these acts; yea and the same r Robinson. justif. pag. 373. Robinson acknowledgeth that Jehoshaphat made compulsive laws about Religion. Ergo, if he should execute these Laws, he should compel to some acts of Religion, and should compel to hypocrisy, as the same Mr. Robinson argueth against us. 4. Conclus. It is one thing to command acts of divine worship, under the pain of civil punishment, and another thing to punish, or inflict civil punishment, when these commandments are transgressed, Christian Princes may do both. And that they do the latter by God's commandment and warrant is clear, in that Jehu destroyed all the house of Ahab for Idolatry, and killed Baal's Priests. Good Josiah killed the Priests of 2 King. 10. the high places, and burned their bones upon the Altar. Elias, when the Magistrate would not do his duty, in an extraordinary way, killed Baal's Priests; and if the Magistrate also in the New Testament have the sword given to him of God, for the punishing of evil doers, as Rom. 13. 4, 5. that same Law must now also have force, though in the use of the sword sundry heretics are here to be distinguished, as 1. seducing heretics, drawing others away, from the worship of the true God to idolatry, such are not to be pitied by the Magistrate, as Deut. 13. 5, 6, 7. Zach. 13. 4, 5, 6. whereas seduced, and drawn away souls, for simple heresy, cannot be put to death. 2. Heretics falling away in many particulars from the faith to Popery, or other heretical ways, are more severely to be punished, than those who are heretics in one or two fundamental points only. And those who are universal Apostates, and fall from the Christian faith to Judaisme and Paganism, deserve no less than death. 3. Selfe-condemned heretics, after sufficient information, and malicious opposers of the truth, deserve harder dealing, then simply seduced heretics. 4. All who believe blasphemies to be truth, and hold them, are not to be reckoned amongst formal blasphemers, whose malice carrieth them on to rail upon the unspotted ways of God. 5. No heretics having false opinions of God, such as Antinomians and Libertines, who think that the regenerate cannot sin, or that the worshipping of a creature is not idolatry, can be innocent, as if ●●●mply acts of the judgement and mind not conform to Gods will revealed in his word were not sins, (as Arminians teach) whereas all the faculties of the soul are under Gods Law. 2. Hardly doth the mind conceive false thoughts of God, or his worship, but there be wicked crooks in the will and affections inclining thereunto the mind, and smoking the mind with will-guiltinesse. 6. Except God was too rigorous and cruel in the Old Testament (God avert such blasphemous thoughts) what ever punishment even to blood and death was inflicted upon heretics, seducing Prophets, Idolaters, Apostates, these same stand yet in the plenitude of moral obligation against such as offend in the New Testament, if the Magistrate bear the Lords sword, as he doth in the New Testament, Rom. 13. 4, 5. Monfortius the Anabaptist as s Beza de heretic. a magist. pun. pag. 158. 159. Beza saith, had no Scripture to say, because Christ is a meek Saviour, all corporal punishment inflicted upon heretics in the Old Testament, is turned over in spiritual punishment; only our brethren who deny that the Magistrate can compel any to an external profession of the Gospel, do herein follow Arminians and Socinians. So the t Remonst. in confess. c. 24. Sect. 9 qui haereticidie aut simili tyrannidi aut persecution● ullo modo patrocinentur, a m●●issimo Christi spiritu prorsus alieni sunt. Remonstrants, and w Epis●●pius. disp. 28. Thes. 25. Episcopius deny that the Magistrate can use any bodily punishment against heretics. The learned x Professores Leidens. in sua cens. 16. id Socinianae doctrinae c●rsentaneum quidem est. Professors of Leiden observe that Arminians here teach that same with the Socinians, and the same is refuted well by y Nicolaus Vedelius ar●a. Arminianis. par. 1. l. 2. c. 9 Vedelius, yea and Gerardus, and z Joan. Gerard. 10. 6. the Magistrate. politico. n. q. 2. n. 314. pag. 743. 744. Mersnerus, and other pretended Disciples of Luther in this side with Arminians and Socinians: and Socinians teach in this, 1. that Heretics should not be molested nor punished with the sword. So a Socinus de off●c. ●om. Christ. c. 1. Socinus, b Nicolaides defe●●. tract. de eccles. c 4. fol. 73. 93. 94. Theophilus Nicolaides, c Ostor●dius Christ. relig. c. 29. Ostorodius, because the tares are not to be rooted out till harvest. 2. d Episcopius disp. 13. Thes. 18. 19 Episcopius, e Henr. Slatius apert. doct. f. 53. Slatius amongst Arminians, and f Ostorodius' inst. relig. c. 28. Ostorodius, and g Cateches. Ra●cov●ens. de proph. Mun. I. Christi c. 1. f. 136. the Catechise of Raccovia teach farther, that the Magistrate may punish by fines and pecunial mulcts, but he cannot shed blood, or punish to death any murderer, because the Commandment of our meek Saviour, doth not permit to take away any man's life; now it is certain meek Jesus, while he was on earth, did neither fine nor imprison, more than put to death. 3. So●inians teach that all wars under the new Testament are unlawful; for saith Smal●ius, h Smal●ius 〈…〉. disp. 7. pig. 241. acute ejus●nadi d●lectio est quae interficere all urn permit●● et jubet. wars cannot consist with the 〈◊〉 of our enemy, commanded by Christ: i v●d. Socin. in defence. sent V●●es. p. ● Raccoviensi adversus Jac. Paeleol. de mag. p ●n pag. 1 fol. 13. Socinus and Ostorodius say it is an old precept not to shed blood, and never retracted in the New Testament, and God licenced it to the Jews, because he promised to them an earthly kingdom, which he hath not now promised under the New Testament. Our Divines hold ringleading and seducing heretics are to be punished to death, for so k Beza. 〈◊〉. de 〈◊〉 is a magist. puniend. advers Ma●tin ●●lling vol. 1. ●pus pag. 85. & se●. Beza, l Junius advers. 〈◊〉. edit. Heidelbu●. an. 15 91. p. 40. Junius, m Bucanus loc. come. 49. Bucanus, n Zanchius, 10. 2. m●s●. de 〈◊〉. Zanchius, o Perkias. in cath●l. reformat. convo. 21. c. 2. pag. 367. Perkinsius, p Daneus in Etlic Christian. l 2. c. 13. Daneus, q Bulling. 〈◊〉. 18. fol. 89. Bullingerus, r Professo. Leyden ●s c●nsa Re non. c: 24 sect. 9 the Professors of Leiden teach. All that can be said cometh to this, that Heretics should not be punished, 1. s Cyprian ad De 〈◊〉. Si quid 〈◊〉 tuis nu 〈◊〉 & poteslatis es●, ipsi in 〈…〉 surgent, ipsi se majestate sua defendant: pude●t te ●os celere, quos ipse de sendis, pudeat tutelam ab ipsis sparare, quos tu 〈◊〉. Cyprian saith to Demetrius that he was greater than his Gods, because he revenged the wrongs done to his Gods, and that it was a shame for him to hope for help from the Gods which he behoved to defend. Answ. This proveth that the false Gods of Demetrius were but false Gods, because they were not able to revenge the wrongs done to themselves, as the true God, who made the heaven and the earth, can do, but nothing against the punishing of the Heretics, for than it should follow, that blasphemy against the holy Ghost, and no sins should be punished, for all sins are injuries done to God, and therefore neither Magistrates, nor parents, nor doctors, yea nor the Church should use any rod, either corporal or spiritual, against subjects, children, or scandalous persons, because God can revenge his own quarrel; yea excommunication is a revenging of a wrong done to God. 2. They object the Apostles way was to watch against Heretics, Act. 20. 29. 31. and Rom. 16. 17. to eschew them, 2 Tim. 2. 25. the servant of the Lord must be gentle. Answ. This is objected by t 〈…〉. Gerardus, as also because they may be converted, Ergo, they are not to be killed, Christ would not have fire coming down from heaven to destroy the Sa 〈◊〉, for afterward they were converted; but we think not any should be put to death for simple heresy, as u 〈◊〉 in 〈…〉 p. 13: 9 Mus●u●us and Whittaker teach, they are to be instructed, censured, x 〈◊〉 ad Campian. pag 2▪ 4. rebuked, eschewed, but though Ananias and Saphira might be converted, Peter strake them with death, and Paul did right in ●iking Elymas the Sorcerer with blindness, Act. 13. because he laboured to turn away Sergius Paulus from the faith, these were extraordinary judgements, but yet they do well prove that where the Magistrate is armed with authority, he ought to inflict bodily punishment upon the seducing heretics, so it he done as y Augustine cp●st. 47. ●d 〈…〉. 50 ad 〈…〉. Augustine saith, Animo corrigendi, non vindicandi. See z Beza de la 〈…〉. punten●. pag. 161, 162. Beza, a Professors of I ciden in censur. confess. Remonst. c. 24. sect. 9 Professors of Leyden, and what Elias did by an extraordinary power in killing Baal's Priests, that Achab the then supreme Magistrate should have done. 3. They object that it is contrary to the meek spirit of Christ in the New Testament, that any should be punished for heresy, and that it is proper to enemies of the truth, and Antichrist so to do, as their b 〈◊〉. histori. l. 12. c. 4 practice declare. Nestorius' being made Archbishop of Constantinople, said to the Emperor, I will give thee heaven O Emperor, if thou with free the earth of heretics; Dioscorus compelled, with armed soldiers, the Bishops to subseribe to the heresy of Entyches; Eud●xius the Arrian obliged Valens the Arrian Emperor to root out 〈◊〉 orthodox professors. The Turk in his Alcoran commandeth to kill all who obey not his law. Answ. The sword is expressly given by God, Rom. 13. to Christian Magistrates, and this is not against the meekness of Christ, no more nor to deliver to Satan, or to curse and excommunicate Apostats with that great curse called Anath●ina Maranatha, 1 Cor. 16. 22. And though Heretics and Mahomet teach that Heretics, as also they teach that manslayers, adulterers, parricides should die the death, it followeth not that we are not to teach the same. Fourthly, The parable of letting the Tares grow, while the day of judgement is alleged. It is true c Chrysostom. ●om. 47. in Matth. 13. chrysostom saith that many innocent persons are killed in the rooting out the tares by bloody wars; d Chrysolog. serm. 79. Chrysologus saith, Neither Matthew the publican, nor Paul should have been comerted, if the Sword had been used, and Augustine e Augustine in lib. quaest. ex Matth. 12. seemeth to call the tares haereticorum falsitates, and f Theophylac. come. in loc. Matth. 13. Theophylact, Zizania sunt haereses. But I answer, Christ exponeth the tares 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, Syriace 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 g Beza in anno●. Mar. Matth. 13. 38. Beza, filii illius improbi, h Erasmus in locum eundem. Erasmus diaboli, the children of the devil, and Theophylact addeth, Zizania sunt h●reses, vel malae cogitationes, and Gerardus perverteth Theophylact, for he extendeth the tares not only to Heretics, but also to wicked men, to Matthew who was a publican, but not a Heretic properly. And first the field is the world of the visible Church, where the seed of the Word is sown, and it must be meaned of all scandalous persons in Christ's visible kingdom, so all shall be spared, and there shall neither be use of the Magistrates sword, nor of the Church discipline in the Church, as Anabaptists expone the place. 2. There should Deus non per●ittit haeretico be llis consumi similiter neque propter mal●s cogitatienes vult Deus exscindi hominem: si Mattheus excisus esset ex hac vita, cum esset zizanium, simul etiam excisum esset fr●nent●n quod postea ex ipso erat oriturum. not so much as rebukes and threatenings been used, but wicked men should be permitted to grow, while the day of judgement, that the Angels root them out. Now it is known that the power of the word preached hath rooted out some tares, because it hath converted them. 3. Heretics are not all things which offend; the incestuous Corinthian offended also. 2. Only Heretics are not such as work iniquity, there be others also in the visible Church, as our brethren expone, Revel. 22. 15. nor are only heretics to be cast out in the furnace of fire, where there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. 3. Nor are only the good wheat those who are orthodox and opposite to heretics, who shall shine as the Sun in the kingdom of their father, p. 42. 43. except we would say that all sound in the faith and holding no heretical doctrine shall shine in the firmament as the Sun. 4. The casting out of Heretics out of the visible Church by excommunication is a rooting of them out of the field of the visible Church; Let more of this be seen and considered in those who have written thereof, as in G●rardus, loc. cit. Beza de puniend. Haeret. Bellarm. de laicis, c. 21. Costerus Enchirid. de mori●us haereticor. Pelr. Gregorius, lib. 12. de repub. c. 4. Suarez. de tripl. virtut. theolog. disp. 18. sect. 2. Gregorius de Valent. 〈◊〉. 3. disp. l. q. 10. punc. 6. Jus Canonicum C. Quid autem. dist. 49. Meiser. lib. 4. de legibus, sect. 1. ●. 10, 11, 12. Lipsius' l. 4. 〈◊〉. c. 2. Co●●d B●unus, l. 3. the heretic. c. 13. Paulus Windeck. lib. de exs●irpandis heretic. APPENDIX. A further consideration of compelling, or tolerating, those of contrary Religions and Sects in the Church. We still hold (as is already said) that Christian Magistrates cannot compel Pagans to embrace the Christian faith. Nor can the Church in a Churchway compel Pagans or Jews coming to remain amongst us Christians, because Pagans are to be gathered to a Church, by the preaching of the Word, and by that way that the Apostles planted Churches, which was by the sword of the Spirit only, as Matth. 28. 19, 20. 1 Cor. 2. 1. 2. 2 Cor. 10. 4, 5, 6. But the argument which the a Tannerus, 22. ● 10 7 87. Jesuit Tannerus, & other Papists bring for it, I judge most weak, for they will not have them compelled to the faith, because, 1. faith is a voluntary and free act, 2. because it is a supernatural work of God, and so they are not under the stroke of the Magistrates sword; for freewill in supernatural acts is alike uncogible and free from all external violence, in both those who are baptised professors within the bosom of the visible Church, and in Pagans; and the truth is, neither the Magistrate nor the Church can censine opinions, even erroneous in fundamental points, as they are opinions; for no society, no humane authority can either judge of, or punish the internal acts of the mind, because as such they are indeed offensive to God, but not offensive or scandalous to either Church or Commonwealth, and so without the Sphere of all humane coercive power: nor is Titus, Tit. 1. To rebuke gainesiyers, v. 9 that they may be sound in the faith, v. 13. but in so far as that faith is visible, and as it cometh out of perverse mouths, which must be stopped, v. 11. Also punishments either civil or ecclesiastical do no other ways work upon the mind and heart, but by a moral & swasory influence, for it is a palpable contradiction, that freewill can physically be compelled, & therefore here (saith b Phil. Gamachaeus come. in 12. q. 10. c. 3. Non hic opus gladio imperatoris, sed hamo piscatoris. Philip Gamacheus) there is no need of an Emperor's sword, but of a Fisher's Angle. Let it go then, which is taught as a truth, (a) Quicunque et l. haeretic●. et l. Manichei God. de heretic. as Tertullian in Scorpiac. c. 2. haeetict compelli debent, non alli ci, et duritia vincenda, non suadenda; which saith, that heretics are otherwise to be dealt with then those who never embraced the Christian faith. in this point, by c Covar●uvias in regula peccat. p. 2. sect. 10 Covarruvias, (e) Gregori. de Valent. e Gamacheus loc. cit. Gamacheus, f Tannerus in 22. q. 10. art. 8 Dub. 1. Tannerus, g Malderus de virtut. Theolog. q. 10. art. 8. Malderus, that Princes have neither from the Law of nature, or from any divine Law, a coercive power over the faith of Pagans; nor is h Scotus in a. didst. 4. Scotus in this to be heard, that the same divine law obligeth all Princes, and the Churches, that did lie upon Israel to destroy the Cansanites. Yet may it be lawful in some cases indirectly to force them, in their false worship, (as i Molina de just. et jure tract. 2. disp. 116. Molina saith against k Alphons a Castro de puni●i. baeretic. l. 2. c. 14. Alphonsus a Castro) if they kill their innocent children to their false Gods, because it is lawful to defend the innocent; neither is that to be regarded, as a sufficient reason that these Infants do not consent, that they should be defended, because as l Malderus loc. cit. Malderus saith it is lawful to hinder a man, who is willing to kill himself, from unjust violence against his own li●. 2. It is lawful as saith m Coninck. de artib. supernatur disp. 18. de infidelit. dub. 14. n 226. Aegidius Conin k, n Lorca in 22. q. 10. art. 8. Lorca, o Aquinas 22. q. 10. art. 8. Aquinas, and p Cajetan. in Thomam. ibid. Cajetanus, to compel Pagans to desist from violent impeding of Pastors to preach the Gospel to some amongst them, who are willing to hear, because in that they are injurious to the salvation of those, who are appointed to be saved, and do manifestly hinder the Gospel's progress, which the Church is (so far as is in her power) to propagate, even as her prayer is, let thy kingdom come. d (d) Greg. de Valent. in 22. q. 10. art. 80. punct 6 2. Nor do we think that Princes may compel Pagans, who are under their dominions, to the faith, without foregoing information of their conscience, or that simply they may compel them to embrace the faith; except that here Princes have greater liberty, indirectly to force them, because they being now living (as we suppose) in a visible Church, they may infect the Church, and therefore here should be an indirect hindering of the exercise of their false religion, in so far as it is infectious to the Church of God, ne pars sincera trahatur: for to this by a certain proportion the power of excommunication given to the Church by Christ, may lead us, 1 Cor. 5. 6. and if we must live by Laws, and not by examples, q Extravan. Paul's FOUR decret. l 7. 〈◊〉. de de Iudae●s. Paul the fourth his suffering of the Jews Synagogues at Rome, and their ancient feasts, which faith r Malderus in 12 q. 10. the insidel. cap. 31. Malderus) of themselves are not evil, is no law to us, yea but s Gal. 5. 4. to Christians it is a falling from Christ, and his grace; nor is t Cap. qui sincera. et cap. de Iudaeis dist. 45. Rome who tolerateth Jewith religion, nor the u Codt. de Iudaeis. edict of Honorius and Theodosius our warrant. 3. Nor can we believe, that no other sins, in opinion, concerning God, his nature, attributes, worship and Church-discipline, (except only such as are against those points, which are called fundamental, and the received principles of Christianity) should be censurable by the Church, or punishable by the Magistrate. 1. Because Jesus Christ, Mat. 18. ordaineth that every sin against our brother, or a Church, 1 Cor. 10. 31, 32. in which the delinquent shall continue, with obstinate refusal to hear the Church, should be censured with excommunication. But there be divers opinions concerning God, his nature, attributes, worship and Church-discipline, which are not against points fundamental, which being professed are sins against our brother and the Churches. Ergo, many opinions not against points fundamental, if professed, are censurable by the Church, and punishable by the Magistrate. I prove the proposition, because Christ, Matth▪ 18. maketh no distinction and exception of any sin, but saith universally, v. 15. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, if thy brother trespass against thee, etc. and we can make no exception against an indefinite and Catholic statute, and ordinance of Jesus Christ. I prove the assumption: because there be many scandalous points of Arminianism, Pelagianisme, of Poperic anent Church government, traditions, the power and efficacy of grace, circumcision, forbidding of marriages, and of meats, which are doctrines of devils, coming from such, as have consciences burnt with an hot Iron, 1 Tim. 4. 1, 2, 3. many points of Anabaptism, Antinomianisme, Socinianism, and of divers other sects are not points fundamental, because many (no doubt) are glorified, who lived and believed in Christ and died ignorant of either opinions, either on the one side or the other, & yet being professed, preached and maintained, especially wilfully and obstinately, do wonderfully scandalise our brethren and the Churches. Nor can I say that such as believe that marriage of Churchmen is unlawful, and defend it, as many holy and learned men in Popery did, and died in that error, if otherwise they believe in Christ, and the like I say of Chastising the body, and abstaining from such and such meats, which yet are doctrines of devils, and offensive to our brethren, 1 Tim. 4. 1, 2, 3. can be points fundamental, so as the holding of these must be inconsistent with saving faith. Some do yet maintain that circumcision is lawful, and yet believe all points fundamental; shall we say, that such are damned? and we read, Gal. 5. 2. Beh●ld I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing. 2. Opinions in points not fundamental, are either sins forbidden by God's Law, or they are not sins; the latter can by no reason be asserted, because God hath in his word determined all controversies not fundamental, as well as fundamental, therefore it is necessary, necessitate praecepti, by virtue of a divine precept, that ●ee believe that to be true, what God saith in his Word, therefore the not believing of it must be a sin and a transgression of a Divine Law. 2. If it be no sin, it must be because the mind is under no Law of God, except in so far as the mind is ruled and led by the dominion of freewill; but this is Pelagianisme and Arminianism, and Papists and Pelagians will needs examine the inclinations, powers, and motions of the soul, which go before the wills consent, or arise in us without the wills consent, from all subjection to a Law, that so original sin may be no sin, because (as P●●agius said) it is not voluntary, and concupiscence, when the will joineth no consent to it, is no sin; yea so the unbelief and ignorance of fundamental points, as they remain in the mind, shall be no sin. 3. If this be no sin, we are not to pray for illumination, to see either the truth on the one side, nor on the other; and what actions we do according to these opinions, in things not fundamental, we do them not with any certainty of faith, or any plerophory, but blindly, or doubtingly, and so sinfully, which is expressly condemned, Rom. 14. 13. and is expressly against that full assurance of faith, that we are to have in those very actions, which in their own nature are indifferent, as is evident, Rom. 14. 14. I know and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself, ●. 5. Let every one be fully persuaded in his own mind. 4. If they be not sins, then are none to be rebuked for these opinions, no more than they are to be excommunicated for them, and though any err in points not fundamental, they are not to be rebuked, yea nor to be convinced of them by the light of the word. (2.) If they be sins, then when they are publicly prosested, they must scandalise our brother, but there be no sins which scandalise our brother, but they are susceptible and in capacity to be committed with obstinacy; Every sin sub ratione scandali, is the subject of Church-censure; Yea I●m. 16. 17. Every one is to be avoided, who causeth divisions, and 〈◊〉 es contrary to the doctrine which the Church hath learned of the Apostles, and every one who walketh disorderly, 2 Thess. 3. 11. and 〈◊〉 not the commandment of the Apostles, is to be excommunicated, 〈◊〉 he be ashamed, v. 14. but opinions contrary to the Apostles doctrine in non-fundamentalls, are not fundamentals, and if they be professed, cause divisions and offences contrary to the Apostolic doctrine, for many non-fundamentalls are the Apostles doctrine. 3. What ever tendeth to the subversion of fundamentals, tende●●●● 〈…〉 to the subversion of faith, and so doth much truly scandaliz●an● bring on damnation, that Christ hath ordained to be removed out of the Church by Church-censures: but erroneous opinions, in points not fundamental, and in superstructures, being professed and instilled in the ears and simple minds of others, tend to the subversion of fundamentals, as having connexion, by just consequent, with fundamentals, and do scandalise and bring on doubtings about the foundation, and so bring damnation. Ergo, erroneous opinions, in points not fundamental, must be removed out of the Church by Church-censures. The proposition is clear, he that falleth in a public scandalous sin is to be delivered to Satan, both for his own sake, that he be not damned himself, but that 1 Cor. 5. 5. to the destruction of the flesh, the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord; and so also for others, because a little Leaven leaveneth the whole lump, v. 6. The assumption is proved by daily experience, for corruption in Discipline and Government in the Church of Rome, brought on corruption in Doctrine, and the same did we find in the Churches of Scotland and England. 4. Fundamentals are no other thing, then that which the Apostle calleth, Heb. 6. 12. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, the first principles of the oracles of God, and ch. 6. 1. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, the Doctrine of the Principles of Christ, which are laid as foundations, as ib. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, not laying the foundation again, etc. Then non-fundamentalls must be such superstructures as are not the first Principles of the Oracles of God, and are not the Doctrine of the Principles of Christ. But the Apostle will not have us to fluctuate and doubt as Skeptickes, in a Py●rhonian Vacillation and Uncertainty, in these, which he calleth the superstructures. 1. As is evident by his words: 11 Of whom we have many things to say, and hard to be uttered, but you are dull of hearing. 12. For when, for the time, ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again, which be the first Principles of the Oracles of God, and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong food. 13. For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe. 14. But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use, have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil. Chap. 6. 1. Therefore leaving the doctrine of the beginning of Christ, let us go on unto perfection, not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, etc. Whence it is more than evidently apparent to any intelligent mind. 1. That when he saith, they ought to be teachers of others, he cannot be thought to mean that they should teach fundamentals only to others, because he would have them to be capable of the food of such as are stronger, and have their senses exercised to discern good and ill, and will have them carried on to perction: now fundamentals are expressly the food of babes which b●● need of milk, c. 6. v. 12. and not the food of the stronger; if then they ought to teach superstructures, and non-fundamentalls to others, they cannot teach and exhort privately, (for of such he speaketh) these things whereof they have no certainty of faith, and which they believe with a reserve, as ready to reject them to morrow, upon second thoughts, for what we teach to others, those (as I conceive) we are obliged to speak, because we believe. Psal. 116. 10. 2 Cor. 4. 13. and those we are to persuade, because we know (not with a reserve, but with certainty of faith) the terror of the Lord, 2 Cor. 5. 11. If it be said, teachers now are not obliged to know all that they teach now to be divine truths, with such a certainty of faith, as Prophets and Apostles, who were led by an infallible Spirit: for our private exhorting, our public Sermons come not from a Spirit, as infallible as that Spirit which spoke and wrote canonic Scripture, for we may err in exhorting, in Preaching, in writing, but the penmen of canonic Scripture were infallible. I answer, the penmen of Scripture when they did speak and write Scripture, were infallible. & de jure, & de facto, they could neither err actually, and by God's word they were obliged not to err, and in that they were freer from error, than we are, who now succeed them to preach and write; but what God hath revealed in his word, whether they be fundamentals or superstructures, doth oblige us to belief and certainty of faith, no less than it obligeth the Penmen of Scripture; and our certainty of saving faith, is as infallible as the faith of the Prophets and Apostles, except with Papists we say no man can be assured that he is in the state of grace. If therefore we be obliged to believe all revealed superstructures, though not fundamental, as the Prophets and Apostles were, we sin scandalously (when obstinacy is added to ignorance) if we believe them with such a reserve as is contrary to faith, and because there is no ignorance of those who teach others, but it is capable of obstinacy, and consequently it is capable of Church censure, Matth. 18. 17. I grant the weak and unlearned, though ignorant of their Christian liberty, in that interim, and case when many things are indifferent, as the case was, Rom. 14. though they be instructed by Paul sufficiently, that nothing is unclean, and that they err in that, out of an erring consciences light, or rather darkness, they abstain from such and such meats as God's law hath now made lawful to both Jew and Gentile, yet are they not to be censured, nor troubled with thorny disputations, but if these weak ones, 1. persist in their error, and 2. teach it to others and misled them, they knowing that they believe these errors with a reserve, are (as I conceive) false teachers, and censurable by the Church and State, and not weak, but obstinate. 2. We are not to be dull of hearing, but are to be fully instructed, und certainly persuaded so of superstructures, which are not the first principles of the Oracles of God, as that we are to teach others. Ergo, a Pyrrbonian fluctuation in these, is damnable. How then can it be a principle, next to God's word, most to be followed, not to make our present judgement and practice, in matters not fundamental, a binding Law to us for the future? 2. The Apostle ought not to rebuke them for being dull of hearing of those things, whereof either sides may be believed, in a necessary case of syncretisme and pacification, without any hazard of punishment or Church-censures; for what is a necessary principle, and to be holden and enacted, as the most sacred Law of all others, next unto the Word of God, the matter of that principle being unknown, and neither sides understood, received, or believed, cannot put on any the rebuke of dull hearing: For example, if the point of Presbyterial government of the Church, or of independency of single congregations, be a point not to be received, with such certainty of faith and assurance, but we are to reject either, or both, when we shall receive new light, that they are false and contrary to the rule of holy Scripture; and again, if we are to reject the opinion contradicent to these former points of Presbyterial government and independent congregations, for there is by this opinion, the same reason of the contradicent, as of the formerly affirmed opinions; I see not how I may not be dull of hearing, yea how I may not simply be ignorant of both and not sin against God. 3. Those superstructures which are not fundamental, are the strong persons food, as the knowledge of principles fundamental is the food of babes, vers. 12, 13. Then I must be persuaded of the truth of them, else they cannot feed my soul with knowledge, because knowledge of Pyrrhonian fluctuation, which is conjectural, and may be no less false than true, and which I must so believe for truth, as possible the tide of a contrary light may carry me to believe the just contrary as truth, can never be the strong food of such as are skilled in the word of righteousness. 4. The knowledge of these superstructures or nonfundamentals belongeth to those who are of full age, and have their senses exercised to discern both good and ill, vers. 14. and which are carried on to perfection, c. 6. v. 1. having now left the fundamentals, as food to babes and unskilled, c. 5. v. 12. But I heartily crave to learn, what perfection doewe arrive unto? and what increase of fuller age, what experience of more spiritual knowledge, perfecting the spiritual senses, do I attain, to know certain truths, which to me may be no less rotten conclusions, and mere forgeries of men's brains, then divine truths? Hence if this Arminian liberty of prophesying, and this perpetual fluctuation of men always learning, and never coming to the knowledge of the truth; be contrary to growing in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, 2 Pet. 3. 18. and contrary to that which is called, 1 Cor. 1. 5. all knowledge, and to the abundance of knowledge, which in the last days, is to fill the earth, as the sea is filled with waters; so that when I have once over-sailed that point of the coast of the knowledge of fundamental articles, I am now in a Sea of four contrary winds, and four contrary tides at once, and I know nothing for truth, but its contradicent may be, yea, and to me is as true, (I say) if this fluctuation of knowledge be contrary to growing in knowledge, it must be rejected as a Chimaera, and the dream of men's heads. 5. Let us take one point not fundamental, to wit this, (Every congregation hath absolute power of Church government within itself, without subjection to Classes, Presbyteries, and Synods) You are so persuaded of the truth of this, that your present judgement and practice is no binding Law to you, for the morrow; but you leave room in your judgement to believe, to morrow, the contradicent, when new light shall appear. Well then to morrow, this non-fundamentall, and this contradicent is now to you true, (No congregation hath absolute power of Church-government within itself, but hath its power in dependence upon, and with subjection unto Classes, Presbyteries, and Synods.) Well, to morrow is come, and this you believe now to be God's truth, yet so, as your present judgement, and practice is no binding Law to you, for the second morrow, but you leave room for light, which shall appear the second morrow; well, in the second morrow, new light appeareth and convinceth you, that the contradicent is true, and you recurre in a circle, to believe your first proposition again is true, to wit, the contradicent of your second day's proposition, and now to you this is true, as it was once, (Every congregation hath absolute power of Church-government within itself, without subjection to classes, Presbyteries, and Synods:) Now, on the third morrow, a new light appearing, you are to believe the contradicent; and because all circular motions are in credit to be deemed eternal, and your mind is always obliged to stoop and fall down before new light, and the conscience is to render herself captive to every emergent truth: what can you here say but there is no end of fluctuations and doubtings? But you say, God's spirit, the revealer of all truth, doth not fluctuate, though I change, God Jebovah changeth not, he can reveal no contradictory truths, for one of them must be a lie, and he is the Lord who cannot lie. Answ. Then I say, these nonfundamentals are in themselves and intrinsically certain, and if God reveal them in his Word, he must reveal them under the notion of things certain, and we are to believe them as certain truths, having intrinsical necessity in themselves from the authority of God the revealer, therefore I am not to believe them with a fluctuation of mind to cashier the truth of them, to morrow, and the next, and the third morrow. But you say, I do believe nonfundamentals as they are revealed, now they are not revealed to me in the word, in that measure and degree of clearness and evidence of light, that fundamental points of faith are revealed, therefore I may lawfully believe these nonfundamentals, which are less evidently revealed, with a reserve, that, upon the supposal, I see I had an error of judgement in taking them to be truths, whereas now I see them to be untruths, I do renounce them; but because fundamentals are clearly revealed, I am to believe them, without any reserve at all. Answ. The degrees of revelation and proposals of truths to our minds, less or more, evident, or less evident, so they be revealed by God, in a sufficient measure of evidence, they free us from obligation of faith, in tanto, non in toto, as is clear, John 15. 22. If I had not come to them, they should not have had sin, the sin of unbelief, and in such a measure; yet if God reveal these nonfundamentals, though not so perspicuously as he revealeth fundamentals, we are obliged to know them and believe them with certainty of faith, and upon this formal reason, because Jehovah speaketh them in his word, no less than we are obliged to know and believe fundamentals: for our dulness and blindness of mind doth not licence us to believe what God revealeth to us in his Word with an 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and a fluctuation of mind, no more than the natural man is licenced to believe the fundamentals of the Gospel with doubting, because they come in under the capacity of his understanding, as foolishness, 1 Cor. 2. 14. But, say you, upon supposal that our darkened hearts do not see these nonfundamentals clearly, we are obliged to take their meaning and sense, with a reserve, and so to receive and entertain the truths of these nonfundamentals, as we leave room, upon supposal of our misapprehensions, to retract our judgement, and to believe the contrary of what we once believed, and this bindereth not but that we are simply and absolutely obliged to believe the non-fundamentalls. Answ, If we be simply and absolutely obliged to believe nonfundamentals, though they be not so clearly revealed to us as the fundamentals, as no doubt we are, then do we contrary to the moral obligation of a divine precept, and so sin in believing, with a doubting and hesitation, of that which God hath revealed in his word: and when we believe God's truth with a reserve to retract our judgement, when a clear light shall make naked to us our error, that revealed error, if revealed to be an error, by the Lord speaking in his word, doth clearly evince that God never revealed, nor meant to reveal in his Word, the former truth that was believed with a reserve, for God cannot reveal things contradictory, and out of the mouth of the Lord cometh no untruth: therefore God in these nonfundamentals revealeth to us but one thing to be believed, and that absolutely without all reserves, for God can no more shine with a new light, to declare the contradicent of what he hath once revealed as truth, than he candeny himself, or lie; which to assert were high blasphemy: and if the first truth of the non-fundamentall do only appear truth to our understanding, and be no such thing, but in itself an untruth, then doth the God of truth reveal no such thing. 2. Upon supposal that we see not the truth of these nonfundamentals clearly, we are neither to believe with a reserve, nor to believe them absolutely, nor yet are we to suspend our belief, because I conceive all the three to be sinful, and we are never obliged to sin, but we are obliged to know and believe simply without all reserve, having laid away our dark and confused conscience, and are to know clearly and believe firmly that God speaketh this, not this in his Word; nor, because I do fluctuate about the truth of these nonfundamentals, am I obliged to follow in nonfundamentals the endictment of a fluctuating conscience, seeing holding the plenitude and plenary perfection of God's Word, the Lord hath no less manifested his will, in setting down superstructures and nonfundamentals, in his Word, than he hath revealed his mind to us in fundamentals. But our Brethren prove that we may tolerate one another in divers and contrary opinions about nonfundamentals, from Phil. 3. 15. Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal this unto you. 16. Nevertheless, whereunto we have already attained, let us walk by the same rule, let us mind the same thing. Now there is nothing more opposite to this rule, than the practices of some, who will exclude and allow communion in nothing, where there is difference in anything. The labours of Davenant and others in this needful case of syncretisme and pacification in those times are very seasonable. I answer, I distinguish three things that may be judged the object of syncretisme or mutual toleration. 1. Fundamentalia, fundamental points. 2. Supra & circa fundamentalia, things that are builded on the foundation or superstructures, or things about the foundation, as many positive and historical things that cannot result by good consequence off, or from the foundation, as that there were eight souls in Noah's Ark, and some rituals of God's institution in the Sacrament of the Supper and Baptism, etc. 3. Praeter fundamentalia, things merely physical, not moral, having no influence in God's worship at all; as such a day for meeting of an Assembly of the Church, Wednesday rather then Thursday; a cloak when you pray in private, rather than a gown; these have, or contribute of themselves no moral influence to the action, as in what corner of your Chamber you pray in private, these are merely indifferent, and tolerance in these I would commend. It is true, there is a strict connexion often betwixt the physical and the moral circumstances, so as the physical circumstance doth put on, by some necessity, a moral habitude and respect, and then the physical circumstance becometh moral, as in what corner of your Chamber you pray, it is merely physical and indifferent, but if that corner that you pray in, cast you obvious to the eyes of those who are walking in the streets, that they may see and hear your private prayers, than the place putteth on the moral respect of a savour of some Pharisaical ostentation, that you pray to be seen of men; and so the circumstance now is moral, and is to be regulated by the Word, whereas the circumstance that is merely physical is not, as it is such, in any capacity to receive scriptural regulation, nothing is required but a physical convenience for the action. Now for fundamental superstructures, for things about the foundation, in so far as they have warrant in the Word, to me they oblige to faith and practices, in so far as the Lord intimateth to us in his Word, either expressly, or by good consequence, that they are lawful. Now I may add to these, that there be some things adjacent, circumvenient, circumstantial to these fundamentals, superstructions, and others that I named, wherein mutual tolerance is commendable; Nor do we think any Church Reformation so perfect as that reformers have not left it in some capacity more or less of receiving increase and latitude of Reformation; but truly I do not see the consequence, that therefore in all points not fundamental the conscience must be of that compliable latitude of Kid-leather to take in, and let out, so as none of these superstructures or nonfundamentals are to be believed but with a reserve, that you take them to day as God's truths, and are in capacity to believe their contradicents to be God's truth to morrow. And for the place, Phil. 3. 14. 15. The sense given by Zanchius pleaseth me. We that are reputed perfect, let us all think and mind this truth that I write, to contend for the price of the high-calling of God; and if any mind any other thing contrary to, or divers from my doctrine, God in his own time shall reveal it to him. Zanchius saith, Deus id quoque revelabit suo tempore, nempe an falsum Zanch. come. in Phil. 3. sit vel verum. God shall reveal it to him in his own time, whether it be true or false: to which part I do not subscribe; that God shall reveal to any other minded than Paul, whether his doctrine be true or false, for that may infer a possibility that Paul taught in this point, or in the matter of ceremonies, something false: but the meaning is, God shall make him know by the revelation of truth, that what I have taught is true; and he addeth as Zanchius, Estius, Cornelius à Lapide, S●lmeron, yea our own Calvine, Marlorat, and others, upon this condition, that they walk with us in peace and concord, according to the 〈◊〉 the Gospel: and that these words are a condition, I believe, because Christ saith, John 7. 17. If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself. But I see nothing here that reacheth the conclusion that we deny; it will bear this indeed, if any man be otherwise minded, and think that Paul hath not delivered sound doctrine, either concerning our pressing forward toward the prize of the high calling of God in Jesus Christ, or concerning ceremonies; that is, if any man believe untruths contrary to Paul's doctrine, let him believe these untruths, leaving room to God's light, to bow down under truth's feet, when God shall reveal that Paul's doctrine is true, and that his thoughts divers from Paul's doctrine was misapprehensions and errors; but there is nothing here, that if any believe true nonfundamentals, he is to believe them with a reserve, that if God, with a new light, shall appear, to discover these truths to be untruths, he shall change his mind. Now the supposition is vain, and as impossible, as to say, God can contradict and belie his own truth, nor is there any word of toleration of Sects in the text. Yea, but (say they) Paul professeth to walk according to the rule to which they 〈◊〉 all attained, with those who are contrary minded. Ergo, we are to tolerate and to keep peaceable communion with those who are contrary minded in opinions, and disagree from us. Answ. Mark, I pray you, that Paul doth not say he will walk with them, and keep communion with them simply; but only, 1. while God shall reveal their error, and by his light make them see that Paul's doctrine is true. 2. So in other things, they be of one mind with Paul, as perfect men should be: and so I think Paul doth indeed condemn separation and breach of love for diversity of opinions in some things; and we doubt not, but if the servant of the Lord should with gentleness instruct malicious opposers of the truth, and wait on them to see, if God, peradventure, will give them repentance, to the acknowledgement of the truth, 2 Tim. 2. 24, 25. far rather should Paul walk with those that are perfect according to the same rule, though they be of another mind; but it followeth not that those who are of another mind from Paul, should, 1 obstinately continue in that mind, after that God hath by writings and dispute convinced them of their error. 2. It followeth not that their obstinate continuance in their error should always be tolerated, and never censured, especially if it be such an error as causeth divisions and offences, Rom. 16. 17. for then such should be avoided, saith Paul, in that same place. 3. It followeth not that we are to believe no superstructures or nonfundamentals, but with a reserve: it is observable that Paul speaketh here of those who believe errors and doctrines contrary to Paul's doctrine; Now consider then the force of the argument, those who believe errors contrary to Paul's doctrine, have no certainty of faith, that what they believe is true, and therefore must believe with a reserve, leaving room to new light; therefore those who believe any true superstructures and any nonfundamentals, have also no certainty of faith, but must believe with a reserve, that when light shall appear, they shall believe the contradicent of what they now believe, there is no force in this connexion. It is just like the question betwixt us and the Papists, whether a man can be certain with any divine and infallible certainty that he is in the state of grace and salvation. Papists say hypocrites believe that they are in the state of grace, and yet they have no certainty thereof, Ergo, (say they) the regenerate believing that they are in the state of grace, can have no certainty. This is a very ill consequence, for a sleeping man is not certain whether he be dreaming or waking. Ergo, a waking man knoweth not whether he be waking, or not. So a distracted man hath no certainty that he is as wise as seven men who can render a reason; therefore a man sober in his wits knoweth not that he is in his sober wits: these be poor and loose consequences. It is true, when we believe some alterable circumstances of some things rather about, then in doctrine and discipline, which are disputable, and to us both sides have great probability, we have not certainty of faith, and possible here in our opinions learned and holy men; yea and whole Churches may look beside their book, and be deceived; and these we take not to be the subject of a sworn confession of faith, and here we grant a [non liquet] on both sides, and do allow some grain weights of reserve to persons and Churches, to retract in those things: but hence it is badly concluded that we believe these nonfundamentals of discipline, for which we have certainty of evidence from God's Word, with a reserve, and with a looseness of assent and credulity to believe the contrary to morrow; for so the same argument should militate against the certainty of faith in some fundamentals: for a person, yea any particular Church may err in denying the resurrection of the dead, as some did in the Church of Corinth; and Christ's Disciples, though true believers, doubted of his rising from the dead, John 20. 9 Peter and the disciples doubted of Christ dying for the loosed world, Mat. 16. 21, 22. Luke 24. 25, 26. and because any true believer may fall in that temptation and weakness, as to deny all the articles of faith, taken divisively, for they may deny this or this article fundamental, (though I do not think a regenerated person can deny the whole system and body of fundamentals collectively) it shall follow by this argument that regenerated persons and particular Churches are to believe some fundamentals with a reserve, and keeping room for light to believe the contrary, and so if this argument be good, we have no certainty of faith in believing any one fundamental article its alone. Nor can Nathan or Samuel have certainty of faith in believing their own prophecies flowing from the immediate inspiration of the Spirit; but they are to believe them with a capacity to receive the faith of the contradicent prophecies, because Nathan had no certainty of faith in commanding David to build the Temple; and Samuel had as little certainty in pronouncing Eliah to be the Lords anointed. Another doubt against this is, That if any, out of weakness and mere tenderness of conscience, deny some superstructures, which are indeed scriptural truths, they are not to be counted heretics, because out of weakness, not out of obstinacy they err, nor to be censured with excommunication or censures of Church or Magistrate, and therefore in these we are to believe truths, with a reserve, and to tolerate the contrary minded, if they agree with us in fundamentals. Answ. That this may be answered, 1. The object of these opinions would be distinguished. 2. The persons, weak or strong. 3. The manner of refusing instruction, or of admitting light, of mere weakness, or of obstinacy. For the first, if the matter be faultless or light, as eating meats or not eating meats, in time when they are merely indifferent, and the person weak and scarce capable of disputation, he is to be tolerated, and not received into knotty and thorny disputations, about things indifferent: for so Paul Rom. 14. is to be understood, when he will not have the weak taken in 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉: so Michael strove with the Angel disputing, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉: if the matter concern an institution of Christ, and our necessary practice in a Church, and the party be not weak. It is a question what maketh obstinacy, and what tenderness and weakness, a Turrecrema. qui paratus est tenere contrarium, li. 4 sum. de eccle. p. 2. c. 17. Turrecremata saith, he who is ready to yield to light, is not obstinate, b Scotus ignorantia crassa, 4 d. 22. ar. 3. Scotus, gross ignorance, c Canus l. 12. de loc. c. 12. affectata ignoran. facit pertinacem. Canus saith, affected ignorance maketh obstinacy, d Malderus crassa ignorantia relinquit ho●ninem paratum obedire ecclesia idecque non exclude●et objectum formale fidei. de virtut. Theol. in 22. de haeres. q. 11. ad 2. men 1. 4. Malderus saith that gross ignorance may leave a man ready to yield to the information of the Church, e A Cost●o de punitio hare●. li. 1. c. 9 Alphonsus a Castro saith better, he is obstinate who 1. defendeth an opinion against the Scripture, or, saith he, (which is his error) against the definition of a general Council, or of the Pope. 2. Who being admonished doth not amend. 3. Who seeketh not resolution from the learned, with a purpose to render himself truths captive. 4. Who sweareth that he shall adhere to the end, to that opinion. By the light and knowledge of the holder of the opinion, it may be collected whether he seeketh truth, and is ready to yield himself and his understanding thereunto: and except the point be fundamental, it can hardly be judged heresy: if the point may be holden without any scandal, or breach of peace, much tolerance is required where error seemeth to be a temptation to holy men, but final tolerance, and unlimited, where the party is of great knowledge, and hath sway in the minds of many, to prevail to draw others after him, is harder. Object. But he that serveth God in these is acceptable to God, Rom. 14. 18. and if a man judge some doctrine to be error, though it be no error, yet to him that so judgeth it is error; if he suffer death for that he judgeth truth, he suffereth for righteousness, being truth in his judgement, and therefore liberty of conscience is to be given to all sects; Christ would not forbid a man that preached in his name, to preach, though he did not follow him, Mark. 9 38. Luk. 9 50. The best way to hinder Sects is to re●ute them by the Scriptures, and not to set decrees of Synods to others, because that is done already by Christ and his Apostles; for God's judgement shall still be on you, while you establish Christ's Jubilee, and freedom of consciences, Luke 4. 18. Answ. Let none think that these be the words of our brethren, but of a certain Anabaptist, and of Arminians and Socinians who object the same; for Paul, Rom. 14. 18. he that serveth God, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, is to be understood (as the context teacheth us) that is, that they relate the words going before, v. 17. he who serveth God in righteousness, in peace, in joy of the holy Ghost, the meaning is not that he is acceptable who serveth God in following the indictment of his light and conscience, because it is his conscience, for then some should please God in sinning against God. But it is a point worthy our consideration, what tie and obligation an erroneous conscience layeth on men: hence with correction these considerations. 1. The true cause why an erring conscience obligeth to abstinence from the fact in the case of error and misrepresentation of conscience, is, 1. Because conscience is the nearest divine principle of our moral actions, and standeth in the room of God, and therefore he who doth any thing against the very erroneous ditement of conscience, is hence convinced to have a perverse will to sin against the majesty of God, because he who should believe usury to be theft, (though we should suppose with Calvin and other great Divines usury to be in some cases lawful) should yet take usury, hath a the●teous will in that, and doth steal. 2. Because the obliging Law of God is not applied to our actions at all, but by the interveening actual use of our conscience; see f Pirerius come in Rom. 14 v. 14 disp. 2. Pirerius. 2. Consideration In the question, whether an erroneous conscience doth oblige a man, or no. It is taken for a thing out of controversy, yea that this is no question at all, Whether or no doth an erroneous conscience so bind, that we can do nothing against the standing indictment of an erring conscience: for the Scripture is clear in this, Rom. 14. 14. I know and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing (of meat-kind now under the Gospel) unclean (or unlawful to eat) of itself, but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, (in the light of his il-informed and erroneous conscience) to him (so thinking) it is unclean, that is, to this man now under the actual darkness and error of an ill-informed conscience it is not lawful to eat, but he must abstain from eating, not simply from eating, but from eating, ●●li modo: So all who have commented on the place, Calvin, Beza, Par●us, Rollocus, etc. and of the Fathers, all who either commented on, or handled the text occasionally, as Theodoret, chrysostom, Basilius, Augustine, Cyprian, Ambrose, Origen, Anselm, all the Popish writers, Lyra, Hugo Cardinalis, Aquinas, Toletus, Pirerius, Estius, Cornelius a Lapide, etc. yea g Adrianus quolib. 2. punct. 3 ad. 5. Adrianus, h Vasquez in 22. q. 19 ar. 5, 6. disp. 59 c. 2. Vasquez, i Pezantius ib. disp. 2. Pezantius, say it is manifestly against the Scripture, and heretical to say, it is no sin to do contrary to the commandment or prohibition of an erring conscience. 3. Hence the conscience carrieth to the agent from God a twofold obligation most considerable here; 1. one from the action itself to be done, or not done; and this cometh wholly from the obliging Law of God, and not from the conscience: there is another obligation that consisteth not in the action, and cometh not from the action, but in the manner of doing, and this obligation cometh from conscience itself, and that is that we do nothing, in such a manner, that is against the light or indictment of our conscience: for this is an imbred Rose & Flower of divinifie and majesty that groweth kindly out of conscience according to that high place of some sort of royalty, that it hath to be something of God, a little breast-God, a little Deputy and Judge not to be contemned; so when a proconsul bringeth to me a forged commandment from my Sovereign and Prince, I may receive it with nonobedience, if I know it to be a forgery, but I am not to despise and put any note of disgrace upon the proconsul, be cause he is in respect of his office the deputy of my Sovereign, though in this particular mandat, he doth prevaricate, and not represent the sovereign power and Prince, whose deputy otherways he is, by virtue of his office; so is this the deputed royalty of conscience, that it standing to me, bic & nunc, as representing a message from God, though it represent it falsely, that I can do nothing in the contrary, that deputry and message standing actually in vigour. 4. I desire that these two obligations of conscience be carefully kept in mind; hence I say, that conscience carrying the former obligation of God's Law, from which formally the action hath its lawfulness, and in an eccentrick and irregular discrepance from which, it hath its unlawfulness, it doth not oblige me to the action, because it is conscience simply; for when it offereth an action to me as lawful, which in very deed, and a part rei, in itself is unlawful, I am not obliged to that unlawful action: for as God hath given to no ruler made of clay, any royal power to be a tyrant and to destroy, where as his office is as a father to save and govern; so hath not God given to conscience any power to oblige me to sins; yea and conscience remaineth conscience, when it representeth forged and illegal mandates under the notion of things good, even when men love to go to hell by reason, yet in that false representation conscience is not God's deputy; therefore though if a man judge some doctrines to be errors, though they be in themselves truths, to him that so judgeth they are errors, yet are these truths not to be rejected simpliciter and absolutely, by him who judgeth so, any they are to be rejected 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, in some respect as they come in under the notion and garments of errors; & also, if any suffer death for an error which in conscience he conceiveth to be truth, that error is to him truth. Distinguo: it is to him truth, that is; he conceiveth and dreameth that it is truth; that is most true: but to him it is truth, that is, it ought to be believed by him as truth, and practised as lawful; that is most false: for it ought to be rejected both in point of belief, and in point of practice, and the erroneous opinion thereof should be rejected, and therefore if he receive it as truth, and profess it, and die for it, he dieth not for righteousness sake, but he dieth for error, and for the dreams of his own head, and so is not blessed as one who dveth for righteousness; for this vain reason saith, 1. that it is no sin for the mind to believe a lie, to be a divine truth: and it is righteousness upon the belief, whereby I believe a lie to be a truth, to suffer for a lie under the notion of a truth. Both these are false: the former is false, for the mind is under Gods obliging Law to conceive aright of all divine truths, as all the faculties of the soul are under a Law. 2. The latter is false, for to believe lies as divine truths, and suffer for them, because the erring conscience saith they are divine truths, is not righteousness, but sinful credulity, and blind zeal. 1. Because we are not to believe what our conscience dictateth as truth, under this formal reduplication, because our conscience thus doth dictate, and saith it is truth, but because God's spirit saith to our conscience, it is a divine truth; not because our own spirit and our own dreaming and mis●ed conscience saith so. This is the controversy betwixt us and Papists, anent the authority of God's Word, but with a little change, for our conscience or the testimony of our conscience as such, is no more the formal object of our faith, and the formal medium and reason why with a divine faith I believe a divine truth to be a divine truth, than the testimony of the Church or the Pope is the formal reason of my faith; so An ●baptists make a Pope and an infallible spirit of their own conscience: but the whole formal obligation tying me to receive this, and this point as a divine truth, is because God hath revealed it in his Word; the consciences representing of it is but a necessary condition of my believing, but not the formal object of my believing: the conscience is the cause why I believe it, tali modo, after a rational way, and by the evidence of practical reason, but it is not the formal cause why I believe it simpliciter; for Papists, Arrians, Macedonians, and the most detestable Heretics have consciences representing to them fundamental truths, as lies and untruths, and have died for these lies, did they suffer for righteousness for that? and yet to their judgement that which they suffered for was truth. All the legal obligation is here from God's Law, not from our conscience. Arminians, Socinians, Anabaptists imagine that our conscience is the nearest rule of our actions, which is most false; our present judgement is never a binding Law to us for the time to come, no not when we believe fundamentals; Gods Word, because it is God's Word, is a binding Law only; our judgement is regula regulata, and not regula regulans, to be led, and not a leading or binding Law to us; for conscience, because conscience, is no more a Pope to us, than the dictates of the Bishop of Rome speaking out of his chair, can captivate the conscience of any man; and Malderus g Malderus 〈◊〉. T●co●. q. 19 art. 5 9 disp. 84. holdeth that our opinion is a Law, according to h Ambros. l. de paradis. c. 8. Ambrose, and he correcteth himself, and saith our opinion or conscience (non tam legem esse, quam legis quaddam praeconium, promulgationem, insinuationem) is not so much the Law of God, as the promulgation of God's Law: but he addeth, (which maketh the business as bad) and saith, promulgatio legis recte dicitur obligare; but the truth is, the promulgation of the Law doth not oblige, for who can say that the Law hath an obliging power from the Herald his act of proclaiming, reading or declaring the Law? the promulgation of the Law is an approximation of it to the understanding of the people, but the Law of man hath its obliging power from the honesty of the matter of the Law, and it hath its obligation to punishment not from the Herald, but from the authority of the Lawgiver. And our conscience doth only promulgate Gods oblie●ing Law, but it layeth not on us the obliging power, except we speak of an obliging power in the manner of receiving and believing the Law of God, that is, (as I said) that we receive not as a truth what God proposeth as an untruth, or that we receive not as a lie, what God proposeth as spoken by himself, for that is to receive truths against the light of our conscience. And when Ambrose calleth our opinion an obliging Law, he speaketh (as Augustine often doth) of the Law of nature, which is that habitual opinion natural that we have of right and wrong, or of the ●aw written in our heart. I would not here distinguish betwixt (recta ratio) right reason, and (vera ratio) true reason, for some make right reason the nearest rule of our actions, so as the action is lawful, it our conscience persuade to it, though the action swarve and decline from God's Law, For to me reason is never right which is not true and agreeable to Gods Law. It is objected, if one shall believe it is lawful to kill a protestant King, because it is good service in God, to kill a heretic; (as there be good store of consciences of this mettle amongst the nation of Jesui●es) if he kill him not be sinneth against God, because be sinneth against the light of his conscience by the sinful omitting of good service to God, and if be kill him 〈◊〉 sinneth also in committing murder, both against the sixth Commandment, and also against the fist, which commandeth to honour Kings▪ out of which it must follow that either an erring conscience, because it is conscience, obligeth us to do that, which because we do it, in obedience to an erring conscience, now leaveth off to be sin to the actor under this condition of conscience; or than that there may be such a perplexity wherein a man by way of contradiction, whether he do such ●n all, or do it not, is necessitated by God's providence to sin, which absurdity shall make God the author of sin. Answ. There is no necessity by way of contradiction, that a man thus perplexed must sin, whether he do or not do such anaction: for I give easily a third case different from both, for such a perplexed Jesuit is neither obliged to kill the Prince, nor yet to abstain from killing in such a perplexed manner; but he is obliged not to kill the Lords anointed, tali modo: he is obliged to abstinence, but not to abstinence tali modo, such a way, for he is obliged to lay aside his erroneous and heretical conscience, and so to abstain from killing with a well informed conscience: for no man is brought under a lawful perplexity to sin, but men may bring themselves under sinful perplexities of conscience, which is not to be fathered upon the holy Lord, who hateth sin with a perfect hatred. I answer to the places, Mark. 9 30. and Luk. 9 they be manifestly corrupted, for the man who cast out devils in Christ's name, and followed not Christ, was not a man who followed the light of an erroneous conscience, who thought it service to God to cast out devils in Christ's name, and not to follow Christ; for he was not obliged to follow Christ as the Disciples followed him, except he had had the same command to follow Christ that the Apostles had, which we read not of; nay it is most like if it had been the error of his conscience not to follow Christ, then should Christ have rebuked it, but Christ did not rebuke it in the man, but directly insinuateth, v. 40. that the man was with Christ, and a spiritual follower of Christ, though he did not in such a bodily way follow Christ, as did Judas and the eleven; and it was the fault of the Disciples to tie all the duties of a Disciple, casting out devils in Christ's name, to a bodily following of Christ, which was their pride. 3. It is a good way, to refute sects, and erroneous opinions by Scriptures, and so is it a good way to convince an incestuous man of the heinousness of his sin by Scriptures, and to convince Hymeneus and Alexander of their blasphemous opinions by Scripture, for Scripture layeth open the vildness of sins and here●es: but it doth not follow, therefore it is not also a good way to deliver incestuous persons, and blasphemets to Satan, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord, and that they may learn not to blaspheme, 1 Cor. 5. 5. 1 Tim. 1. 5. Preaching of the Word is one mean to bear down sects and erroneous opinions, but it taketh not away, but establisheth Church-discipline as another mean, and the one is subordinate to the other: if Matth. 18. an offending brother can be convinced and brought to repentance by the power of the Word (as all rebukes must be from the Word) it is good, but if he remain obstinate in his offence, Christ will have the man excommunicated, and esteemed a Heatben and a Publican. 4. It is a vain thing to say that God hath refuted all here●●s in the Word, and therefore there is no need of Synods to refute them, and to make determinations on the contrary, for it was certain that the Word of God had refuted the necessity of circumcision and of observing Moses his Law, as Peter, James, Paul, Act. 15. do strongly prove from the Word of God and the word of God condemned the eating of things strang●●●, and of things sacrificed to Idols in the case of scandal; therefore none of sound judgement will infer that the determination of a Synod, such as is Act. 15. 22. is not necessary; yea because the books of Moses condemned the Sadduces in their Epicurith opinion of denying the resurrection of the dead, I hope it is not for that superfluous for Christ out of Moses his writings to determine and prove, Matth. 22. that the dead must ●i●c again; you may by as good reason say, nothing should be determined in preaching, nor in writings, because all these are already determined in the Word, by the Lord, his Prophets and Apostles: this shall close evert all ministry, (as S●inians do) especially now after the cannon of the Scripture is closed, for they use the same very arguments against the necessity of a ministry, because now the Gospel is fully revealed, there is no necessity of a sent ministry, as was in the Apostles time: so teach a Andr. Raddeccius in ne●s ad lebrun Smiplec●● pag. 3. & in defence. tract de ●● sfi. pag. 140. Andr. Raddeccius, b S●alcius in refut. Thes. Frantz. dis 4. pag. 377. Smalcius, and c R●mons●r. in Ap lo●● 21. s l 226. 2 7. and 246 and Fpis●●p●us disp 28. thes. n. the Arminians. And lastly, it is a vild abusing of Scripture to say that the accept th●e year of the Lord, of which Christ speaketh, Luk. 4. 18, 1●. is that Jubilee year of liberty of conscience to all sects of Papists, Arminians, Socinians, Anabaptists, etc. 1. Because a liberty of heretical and blasphemous opinions of God, his nature, worship, and Word, cannot be the acceptable year of the Lord which Christ as Mediator came to proclaim, Esa. 61 2. 5. for that is licence, not liberty; Christ's acceptable year, Fsiy 61. is the spiritual Jubilee of remission of sins, and eternal redemption proffered in the Gospel, and really bestowed upon the meek, the broken hearted, the captives, the prisoners, the mourner's in Zi●n, and those whom Christ is sent to comfort, and to cloth with the garments of praise; but he is not sent to comfort Macedonians, Sabellians, papists, Socinians, etc. because they are Sectaries, and do adhere to their rotten and false grounds of divinity; for then liberty of conscience should have been a mercy purchased by Christ's death, and Arius should obtain by Christ's death a power to be an Arian, and to deny the divinity of Jesus Christ. 2. In the Hebrew 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ultio, a revenging, is an allusion to 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 naeham, consolatus est, for this year was to the believers Nechama, or consolation, and to unbelievers Nekama, a revenge or a vengeance, which cannot sort with sectaries. 3. The acceptable year is as Paul expoundeth it, 2 Cor. 6. 2. the acceptable time of the Gospel, and the day of salvation, and as d Hugo Cardinalis come. in Esa 6. Hugo Cardinalis expoundeth it well, the time of the fullness of grace under the Gospel, and that which is called, Esay 49. 8. the day of salvation, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ratson, the day of good will; and so e Beda in locum. Beda, f Toletus luc. Toletus, g Cyrillus. Cyrillus, h Salme●en. and the Jesuit Salmeron and i Gloss. ordin. annum placabilem, id est, fidem & salutem hominum. Glossa Ordinaria expoundeth it faith and salvation, k Procopius in ●arnationis domini tempus innui●. Procopius the day of the Lords incarnation, as l Hieronymus diem 〈◊〉, ●d est, damnation's Roman●s. Hieronymus expoundeth the day of vengeance opposite thereunto, to be the day of damnation; and m Lyra, annus dominicae passionis in quo placa●●s est gene●i 〈◊〉. Lyra the year of Christ's suffering, in which Christ is pleased with mankind. Quest. III. Whether the Jesuited Lysimachus Nicanor, and the Author of the Survey of Discipline, doth with good reason impute ●● the Church-Government of the reformed Churches, the eversion of the 〈◊〉 Magistrates power ●n matters ecclesiastical? There came to the light of day, a night-piece of darkness, Anno 1640. A Pamphlet by one Lysimachus Nicanor, acting the person of a jesuit, but better resembling ● is nature, against our blessed Reformation, imputing to us Treason to Kings, as the Popish author of the Survey had led the poor man: a Survey of discipl. c. 2● 23 both of these, as Jesuits, do rail against Calvin, Beza, and the Geneva-discipline, as Becanus, Suarez, Uasquez, Bellarmine, Gre●serus, and other their Doctors and teachers do lead them. That I may add to what I have said before, I desire the reader to eye and consider these distinctions. 1. b Far●us come in Rom. c. 13. dub. 5. in appendic ad fol. arg resp. 1. Paraeus teacheth that there is a double Church-power, one internal and proper, as to preach, hind, and loose, to administrate the Sacraments, etc. This is not in the Prince: and there is another improper and external, which is exercised about Church-matters, and Church-officers: and this distinction is grounded upon that saying of Constantine the Emperor to the Bishops, as c Puschius l 4 c. 24. de ●ita Constantin●, ●es istis episcopi in ecclesia, ego extra ecclesiam seu ●emplum a deo s●●n constitutus. Eusebius relateth it. 2. An external power about matters ecclesiastic is threefold. 1. A power of order and jurisdiction about the external, or rather in the external acts of the Church, which are visible and incurreth in the 〈…〉, as to preach, baptise, and these, (as saith that learned and d Gul Apollo 〈…〉. Vedelium de Episco. constan. c 2. nu. 2. worthy preacher at Middleburgh, Guliel. Apollonii) do properly pertain to the spiritual and proper Church-government, and without controversy do not belong to the Prince. 2. A power external about Church-matters, which is objective, in respect of the object, sacred or ecclesiastic, but improperly, and by a 〈◊〉 enely ecclesiastic, and essentially and in itself politic, such as we hold to be the Magistrate's power in causing Churchmen do their duty in preaching sound doctrine, and administrating the Sacraments, 'cording to Christ's institution, and punishing heretics and false teachers. 3. Some have devised a mixed power ecclesiastic, (as Henric. e Salcobrigiens. p. 121. Salcobrigiensis) whereby the Prince is the head of the Church, and hath a nomotheticke, and legislative power, in things ecclesiastical: and this is not only objective in respect of the object ecclesiastical, but also subjective in respect of the subject, ecclesiastical, in respect that the Prince by virtue of his civil office, as a King may ordain Prelates, and make Laws in Church-matters. Distinction. 3. There is a twofold power in a King, one in a King as a King, this is alike in all, and ordinary, regal, coactive; whether the King be a Heathen, a Turk, or a sound believing Christian. There is another power in a King, as such a King, either a King and a Prophet also, or as a Prophetical King: and this extraordinary power was in Solomon and David, to write Canonicke Scripture, and to prophesy, and is not properly a Kingly power: or there is in a King as such a King, even as a Christian believing King, an other power ordinary indeed, but it is not a new regal power, but potestas executiva, a power or a gracious hability to execute the Kingly power that he had before as a King; so Christianity addeth no new Kingly power to a King, but only addeth a Christian power to use, enlarge, and dilate the Kingly power, that he had before. Distinction 4. The Magistrate as a Magistrate is a politic head and ruler of the Commonwealth, but as a Christian he is a member of the Church. 5. The King's power as King in things ecclesiastic, is not servi●e and merely executive, as the Church's servant, to put their decrees in execution, but it is regal, princely and supreme. 6. The object of the King's power is not simply a peaceable life, and external peace of humane societies, but also honesty and godliness, but to be procured by a civil, politic, regal and coactive way, by the Sword of the secular arm, as the object of the Church power is honesty and godliness to be procured by a ministerial, ecclesiastical, and spiritual power, without any forcing of men by external power. 7. The end of Kingly power, de jure, by God's right and divine Law, exintentione Dei approbatiuâ, is godliness, but the end of Kingly power according to its essence, and de facto, is a quiet life, though it attain not Godliness, as it doth not attain that end, nor can it attain it, amongst Pagans, and yet there is a Kingly power in its essence, whole and entire amongst Pagans, where there is no godliness, or Christian Religion. 8. There is in Heathen Kings a regal and Kingly power to establish Christian Religion and add regal sanctions to Christian Synods, though there neither is, nor can be, during the state of Heathen Paganism, any Christian Religion there; this power is essentially and actu primo, regal, yet as concerning execution, it is virtual only. 9 There is a difference betwixt a royal command under the pain of 〈◊〉 punishment, with a royal power to punish the contraveners' 〈◊〉 ecclesiastic, and a nomotbeticke power to make Church Laws; 〈…〉 hath the former power, but not the latter. 10. If the royal power be of that transcendent and eminent greatness, as to make Laws in all things, belonging to Church 〈◊〉, and so as f Camero. praelect. 10. 1. p. 370. 372. Camero must be heard, saying, that the ●ing is the supreme ruler, and Churchmen be as servants, and instruments under him, and do all in the external government of the Church by virtue of the King's supreme authority, the King is not much honoured by this; for they must say that the King in the Physician giveth dregs to the sick, in the Ploughman laboureth the earth, in the fashioner seweth and s●a●eth garments, whereas Paraeus g Paraeus come. in Rom. 13. in append. ad du●. 5. P●arogn●t. 6. who without reason also giveth to the Prince a nomothetick power in Church-matte●s, doth except some things that the Prince cannot do, sometimes for want of right and law, other sometimes for want of knowledge, sometimes because it is against the dignity of his Majesty, as in sordid and base arts. 11. The power of governing the Church of the Jews, though it was ordinarily in the Priesthood, the Sons of Aaron, whose ●ippes did preserve, ex officio, knowledge, Mal. 2. yet as the Prophets were raised up by God, extraordinarily to teach, they 〈◊〉 by that same extraordinary power did govern, and therefore though the Kings of Israel were not Priests, yet without doubt some of them were Prophets, and as Prophets they did prophecy, and as Prophets determine many things of Government, by that same extraordinary power by which some of them, to wit David, and Solomon, did prophecy, and pen Ca● neck Scripture. 12. There is one consideration of abuses and heresies manifestly re 〈◊〉 to God's word, and another of those things that are ordinary 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. In the former there is no need of the Churches ministerial power of condemning them, and therefore Ezechias, Jos●as, Asa, ●●osaphat, did manifestly by the light of nature, and God's word 〈◊〉 abuses, and Idolatry in God's worship without the Church's 〈◊〉, seeing the Church representative was guilty of these cor 〈◊〉 us themselves; but in the latter, seeing the King's place is to come 〈◊〉 and compel by external force and bodily punishments, and it is the Church's part to teach, inserme, bind, and loose, therefore the King can make no Church Canons. Hence our first conclusion. The Christian Magistrate as a Christian is a member of the Church, but as a Magistrate he is not formally a member or part of the Church. 1. Because he is neither a Pastor, Doctor, Elder, nor Deacon, as is clear to any, for these offices were complete in the Church without the Magistrate, Ephes. 1. 11. else Christ ascending to heaven should have given Kings, for the edifying of his body; Neither is he as a Magistrate a part of the company of believers. 1. Because then all Magistrates as Magistrates should be professors of the faith, which is known to be false. 2. Because the Magistrate, as such, is the head of an external politic civil society, not of Christ's body. 2. The Magistrate as a Magistrate wanteth such things as essentially constituteth a member of the Church, as a Magistrate only he hath neither baptism, profession, nor faith, because then heathen Magistrates should not be Magistrates, the contrary whereof the Word of God saith, Jeremiah in God's name commanded to obey the King of Babylon, and Paul commanded to pray for Kings and heathen Magistrates, 1 Tim. 2. 1. Hence let us have leave to deny these, (He who is the Church's nurs-father, is the Church's father, and a part of the family.) 2. (Whose office it is to cause all in the visible Church to profess the truth, obey God, and keep his Commandments, he is a member of the Church.) 3. (He who is a keeper and preserver of Law and Gospel by his office, he is by his office a member of the Church.) For the first: he is a father metaphorically, and doth by an external coactive power, and by the sword nourish the Church, and therefore is not the Church, nor a part of the Church, ex officio, by his office, as the nurs-father is not the child, nor a part of the child, whereof he is nursefather; and this, and both the other two are to be denied, because the Magistrate doth neither nurse the Church, nor cause the Church do their duty, nor descend the Law and Gospel by any power that is intrinsically Church-power, but by the sword, and coactive power, which in no sort belongeth to Christ's kingdom as a part thereof, either as it is internal, and invisible, or external or visible, which is not of this world, Joh. 1●. 36. 3. By no word of God can h Salc●b●ig. pap 121. Salcobrigiensis, and i 〈…〉 p 〈…〉. 1. c 8. Weemes prove, that the Magistrate as the Magistrate is a mixed persen, and his power a mixed power, partly civil, partly ecclesiastic, for ●● the ruler cometh in amongst the ordinary Church-officers, ● m. 12. Ephes. 4. 11. 1 Tim. 2. 2. which the Word of God doth ●●ver insinuate, and he should no less watch for souls, as ●●e who is to give an account to God, than other Church-officers, Heb. 13. 17. for the Magistrates office may be performed by himself alone, he himself alone may use the sword in all things, which he doth as a Magistrate, as is clear, Rom. 13. 1. and 1 Pet. 2. 13. 14 the King judging his alone, and the King's deputy sent by him judging his alone is to be obeyed, but no Church power, mixed or pure, and unmixed is committed to any one man, but to many, as to the Church, Matth. 18. 17. 1 Cer. 5. 2. 3 4. 2 Cor. 2. 6 4. The Magistrate as the Magistrate hath a civil dominion ever the body, goods and lives of men. 2. And hath the sword to compel men to do their duties. 3. And compelleth to external obedience, and leadeth men on to godliness and to eternal life, by external pomp, force and the terrors of bodily and external punishment, and his warfare is carnal, a● the k Dan 3. 29 Dan. 6. 26, 27. Luk. 22. 24. 29 Rem 13 4. 1 Pet. 2 13, 14. etc. 1 Tim 2. 2. Scripture doth prove; but the Church, and members of the Church as they are such, have no majority of dominion, 1 Pet. 5. 3, 4. Luke 22. 24. 25. over the body, and goods, and blood of men. 2. They have not the sword, nor power of the sword, Joh. 18. 36. John 8. 11. Luke 12. 13. 14. 2 Cor. 10. 4. 3. The Church as the Church dealeth by the word of admonisting, teaching, rebuking, excommunicating, praying and requesting, as the l Col. 2. 16. ● Thes. 5. 11, 12. l tv 19 17. Matth 18. 15. 16, 17. 1 Cor. 5. 2, 3, 4. 1 Tim 1. 20. 1 Tim. 5. 20. 2 Cor. 5. 19, 20. 2 Cor. 10. 14. Scripture cleareth: therefore the power of the Church and the power of the magistrate must dister in spece and nature. 5. If the Magistrate be a chief member of the Church, as a Magistrate with mixed power to make Church-Lawes, then is the Church not perfect in its being, and operations, to obtain the end convenient to the Church as the Church, so long as it wanteth the Magistrate, because it should be made defective, and not able to exercise all its operations for the edification of Christ's body, and gathering of the Saints, Ephes. 4. 11. without this principal member, especially seeing the Magistrate is alleged to be a member, or integral part of the Church, such as the head or eyes, otherwise without this, or that professor, a Church may be perfect, as an army may be perfect, without this or that common Soldier, but wanting a Leader it should not be perfect. But so it is that the Church is and was perfect in its being, and operations, without the civil Magistrate; the Church of Corinth where the Magistrate was a heathen, and a Pagan, 1 Cor. 6. 1, 2, 3. is yet a Church sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be Saints, 1 Cor. 1. 2 graced, v. 4. enriched by Christ in all utterance and knowledge, v. 5. coming behind in no gift, v. 7. with power of excommunication which attaineth its proper end, the saving of the spirit in the day of the Lord Jesus, 1 Cor. 5. 4. A perfect body of Christ, 1 Cor. 12. able to edify the whole body, 1 Cor. 14. 12. 25, 26, 27. having power of the seals of the Covenant, 1 Cor. 11. 20, 21, 22, 23. So was there a perfect Church-Synod without the civil Magistrate, Act. 1. Act. 6. Act. 15. and all for the saving of the redeemed Church is laid upon the Eldership of Ephesus, Act. 20. 28, 29, 30, 31. without the Magistrate. 6. If the King be a mixed person endued with Church power to make canons, and because anointed with holy oil, capable of jurisdiction ecclesiastical, as some say, then as he is a King by birth, so is he also borne with an ecclesiastical power to exercise spiritual jurisdiction: but Paul saith, all ecclesiastical power that he had, was given of God, not borne with him; he was made, not borne a Minister, Col. 2. 25. the power to edify was given him, 2 Cor. 10. 8. 2. Conclusion. We cannot by the Word of God acknowledge that difference, betwixt the Magistrate, and the Christian Magistrate, that the Magistrate as a Magistrate hath a kingly power to rule over men as men, and the Christian Magistrate hath a Christian kingly power to rule over men as they are Christians. Because by one and the same kingly power the King ruleth over men as men, and men as Christian men, commanding by the sword and kingly power that Pastors preach sound doctrine, administrate the Sacraments aright, that all the Church profess Christ, and abstain from blasphemy, and Idolatry. He is the minister of God for good, Rom. 13. Ergo, he is the Minister of God for all good, for a Christian good, and is a King compelling to a Christian good: Also though the King were not a Christian magistrate, yet hath he a Kingly power to command men as Christians, and it is by accident, that he cannot in that state actually command Christian duties, and service to Christ, because he will not, and cannot command these duties remaining ignorant of Christ, even as a King ignorant of necessary civil duties cannot command them, not because he wanteth kingly power to command these civil things, for undeniably he is a Judge in all civil things, but because he hath not knowledge of them. 3. Christianity maketh him not a King over Christians as Christians, for than he could not be their King, and were not a King over Christians, so long as he wanteth Christianity, which is false, for the Christians acknowledged heathen Emperors as their Kings; the people of God were to obey Nabuchadnezzar, Darius, Cyrus, and other beathen Kings. Paul will have obedience and subjection due to every power, Rom. 13. 1, 2. 1 Tim. 2. 1, 2, 3. 1 Pet. 2. 7. 18. 4. It maketh way to the popish dethroning of Kings when they turn heretics, and leave off to be members of the Christian Church, which we abhor. 5. A King is parens patriae, the father of the Commonwealth. Now Christianity addeth no new fatherly power to a father over his children, for a heathen father is as essentially a father, as a Christian Father, and a heathen commander in war, a heathen husband, a heathen master, a heathen doctor or teacher, are all as essentially commanders, husbands, etc. in relation to their soul dyer's, wives, servants, and scholars, as are the Christian commander, the Christian husband, the Christian master, and Christian Doctor, in relation to Christian soldiers, Christian wives, etc. and no man can say that Christianity giveth a new husband-right to the husband, once a heathen, over his wife, that he had not before. 3. Conclusion. The King is not debarred as King from the inspection, oversight, and care of ecclesiastical affairs, but the end of the Kingly power, is not only external peace, but also godliness, 1 Tim. 2. 2. And in the intrinsical end of magistracy as magistracy, is not only natural happiness, and a quiet of life; as a M. Anton. de domi. Archie. Spala●ens. l. 6. c. 3. n. 4, 5, 6. seq. Spalat●, and after him that learned author b Gulielm. Apollon. de jure magist●a. in sacr. pa●. ●. c. 4 & 5. Apollonius saith, but also godliness that we may lead a quiet and a peaceable life, in all godliness and b●nes●ie; Ergo, in all that may conduce to life eternal, he is a King by office, but in a coactive and regal way. 2. The ruler is (Rom. 13. 4) The minister of God to thee for good, v. 3. Do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the Ruler: then look how far good and well doing, which is praiseworthy extendeth, as far doth the intrinsical end of magistracy reach; but this good, and welldoing which the magistrate as the magistrate procureth, is not only a natural happiness, and the quiet life of a civil society, but also the good and well doing of Christians as Christians, to wit, public praying, praising, preaching, hearing of the word, religious administration and receiving of the Sacraments, all which the King as King is to procure; for what ever good external Pastors as Pastors do procure, that same also, but in a civil and coactive way, is the King as the King to procure, and therefore his end as King is godliness, and eternal life, but he is busied about this end, after a far other and more carnal way then the pastor, the weapons of whose warfare are not carnal. 3. That the King's end intrinsecall, as King, is more than external and natural peace, is clear, because ill doing against which he as the Minister of God, is to execute vengeance, and wrath, Rom. 13. 3, 4. is not only that which is contrary to external quietness of the commonwealth, and the natural happiness of civil societies, but also that which is contrary to the happiness supernatural of the Church as believers in the way to life eternal, for he is to take vengeance upon blasphemy, idolatry, professed unbelief, neglect of religious administration of the seals, and the eating and drinking damnation at the Lords Table, which are ills not formally contrary to external quietness, but which are directly scandals, and moral ills hindering men as members of the Church in their journey to life eternal; for though men should never fall o● sin against the external quietness of the natural happiness of the members of a commonwealth, yet the magistrate as the magistrate is to execute vengeance upon all external ill-doing, as blasphemy, adoring of idols. 4. The magistrate as the magistrate, in the zeal of God, is to set himself against sins, as dishonourable to God, and his glory, seeing the judgement that he executeth, is not man's, but the Lords, 2 Chron. 1●. 6. and he is a little God in the room of God, yea God ●●tteth judging in, and through him, Psal. 82. v. 1. and therefore his end is not only to punish sins, as they trouble the external peace of the commonwealth, but all external sins, that may wound the honour of God, and against which the magistrate, as he is such, is to be armed and clothed with zeal. 5. Those who with Spalleto teach that life eternal is not the end of the magistrate, as a magistrate, but only the extrinsecall end of the magistrate, or the end of the person who is the magistrate, must foully err; so it is not, in their meaning, the end of the office or kingly art to maintain religion and pity, but this is the end of the person clothed with the office, and so they deny that God hath destined the kingly office to help men as Christians to heaven, and to promove Christ's kingdom mediatory, and they must be forced to say, God hath ordained magistracy to help men as men, or as they have a life common to them with the beasts, and not to help them as Christian men, to ●●ie from the wrath to come, and obtain life eternal, which certainly is against the honour of magistracy, b Esa. 49. 2●. Revel. 21. 16. Psal. 2. 10, 11, 12. Psal. 71. v. 10, 11, 12. which of its own nature is destined for the promoving of religion, else the magistrate as the magistrate is not a nurs-father in the Church, nor to bring his glory to the new Jerusalem, nor to kiss the Son, nor to exalt the throne of Jesus Christ, contrary to the Word of God. 6. Yea they were only to promove the Church as a society of men, and to set up the throne of justice for the second table of the Law, and not a throne for piety, and for the first table of the Law, which is observed by c August. coner. litter. Petilian. l. 3. c. 92 contr. Cr●sco. lib. 8. c. 51. Augustine, who will have Kings to serve the Lord, not only ●●men, but also as Kings, in such sort which none can do, who are not Kings, and that ●● only in civil ●ffaires, but also in matters concerning divine religion: which passage, as d Bell●●m. de pontiff. Rom. l. 1. c. 5. Bellarmine corrupteth it on the one hand, making the King a Governor of men according to their bodies, and his old father the Antichrist a governor of men according to their souls, so doth that virulent libeler e Lysimach. Nicanor, epist. to the Cove nan of Scotland, pag. 16. Lysimachus Nicanor, with no reason infer that the King is head of the Church, and hath a Nomothetick power to impose the service book, and book of Canons upon the Church of Scotland. But because the King as King is to promove religion, therefore f Junius eccles. l. 3. c. 5. saith Junius) Minos, Ly●urgus, Charondas, Zeleu●us, and Numa obli●ged men to their Laws by some colour of religion. 7. Nor do I think what is said against this by some learned men of great weight; see g Guliel. Apollon. de jure magist. contr. Vedeli. par. 1. ●. 3. pag. 52. Guliel. Apollonius, h M. Antkon. de domi. Archiepis. Spala●. de rep. eccle. l. 6. c. 3. sect. 17. Spalatensis, i Tilenus' Syntag. pag. 2. disp. 32. thes. 33. Tilenus, k Daneus polit. Ch. l. 6. c. 1. Daneus, l Bucan loc. come 49. ●. 13▪ ● 31. Bu●anus, m Professor. Leidens. d. 50. thes. 49. Professor. Leidens. Some say the magistrates power and the ecclesiastic power differ in the objects, the Magistrates powers (say they) object is things earthly, and the external man; the power of the Church is things spiritual, and the inner man. I answer, these two powers differ in the objects no question, I mean in the formal objects, not in the material, for the magistrate as a magistrate is a nurs-father, and keeper, and avenger of both Tables of the Law, and hath a coactive power about hearing the word, administration of the Sacraments, Idolatry, blasphemy, and the right serving of God in Jesus Christ, and these things are not res terrenae, earthly things, or things of this life, but spiritual things. Yea the affairs of Jehovah and the King's matters, 2 Chron. 19 11. saith Amesius, o Ames. de Conscien. l. 5. c. 25. are not so different, non it a disparata sunt, as that the care and knowledge of the things of God, belongeth not to the King, said it a distinguuntur, ut in modo procurandi, rex politice suas parts agate, & sacerdos ecclesiastice suas; the objects of the magistrates power, and of the Church's power may be materially and are one & the same, but the King worketh in a coactive and kingly way, and the Church in an ecclesiastic and spiritual way. For do not both the King as King, and the Church as the Amesius Medul. Theol. l. 2. c. 17. 〈◊〉 entm est res, aut causa 〈◊〉 ecclesiastica qu●n aliqua ratiene pertineat ad jwisdictionem Mag●stratus, neq●ulla est 〈◊〉 tam seculary, modo ab ecclesiae memb●o p●aestetur qum qua●enus observant●am e●ga 〈◊〉 respite▪ per●mere possi● ad ecclesiasticam 〈◊〉 ●nem. Church, command and forbid one and the same thing? doth not the King command the right worship of God, and forbid Idolatry, and the Blasphemy of God? and doth not the Church in their Synodical Canon's command and forbid one and these some things? yea certainly, but the King doth command and forbid by a kingly and coactive power, under the pain of bo●●lv punishment, as incarceration, exile, proscription, or death, according to the quality of the fact. And the Church commandeth also the right worship of God, and forbiddeth Blasphemy and Idolatry, but by a spiritual and ecclesiastic power, and under the pain of spiritual and ecclesiastical censures, as open rebuke, suspension, and excommunication; and they differ not so in their ends, as some teach, so as the end of the Church powes should be the communion of Saints, and the edifying of the body of the Church, which I grant is true, and the end of the Ruler should be only preservation of peace, and the external tranquillity of the Commonwealth: yea (I say from the Word of God) that external peace is too narrow an end, and it doth belong to the second Table, the King's end as Nursefather and his a like care is to preserve the first Table, and as a Nursefather, to see that the children's milk be good and wholesome, though the milk come not from his own breasts; and so his power hath a kingly relation to all the Word of God, and not to external peace and natural happiness only. And the King as the King, his end is edification and spiritual good of souls also, but always by a kingly power, and in a coactive way, by the sword, whereas the Church, are in their care of edifying souls, to use no such carnal weapons in their warfare, 2 Cor. 10. 4. For which cause p Martyr. loc. come. elas. 4. loc. 3 that learned P. Martyr, and q Parkerus de volue. a eccles. l. ●. 1. ●. 6 〈◊〉 Parker, and also r Professor. 〈◊〉. ●●col. disp. 50. Thes. 49 50, 51, 52. Parkerus 16. Ecclesia visibilis, quanquam externa, ad regn●● Christ●●●leste per●●ne●. the Professors of Leyden say that Ministers deal with consciences of men, Quoniam Spiritus Sanctus (inquit Martyr) vim suam adjungit cum praedicationibus orthodoxis, the holy Spirit conjoineth the power and influence of grace with sound preaching; and the Magistrate doth only exercise external discipline. And Parker reasoning against Whitgift and 〈◊〉, proveth well that the Church visible, though external, yet is Christ's spiritual Kingdom, and that Church discipline is a part of Christ's spiritual Kingdom, and that the external government of Christ by discipline, is spiritual every way, according to the efficient, 1 Cor. 12. 1. according to the end, spiritual edification, Ephes. 4. 12. according to the matter, the Word and Sacraments, 2 Cor. 10. 3, 4. according to the form of working, by the evidence of the Spirit, 2 Cor. 2. 4. 13. And this is the cause (I conceive) why great Divines have said the object of the Magistrates power as a Magistrate is the external man, and earthly things, because he doth not in such a spiritual way of working, take care of the two Tables of the Law, as the Pastor doth; and yet the spiritual good and edification of the Church in the right preaching of the Word, the Sacraments, and pure discipline is his end. It is true, whether the blasphemer profess repentance, or not, the Magistrate is to punish, yea and to take his life, if he in seducing of many, have prevailed, but yet his end is edification, even in taking away the life; for he is to put away evil, that all Israel may fear, and do so no more: but this edification is procured by the sword, and by a coactive power, and so the Church power and the kingly power differ in their formal objects, and their formal ends. But s Anthon. de Dom. Arch●epis●●. Spalatens. l 6. c. 3. 9 10. Spalleto speaketh ignorantly of Kings. Who saith, as the internal and proper end of the Art of painting, the Art of sailing, etc. is not life eternal, but only to paint well, according to the precepts of Art, and to bring men safe to their harborie, though the persons who are painters and sailors may direct works of their Art to life eternal: so (saith he) the end of the kingly Art is not life eternal, but only the external peace of the Common▪ wealth; hence inferreth he, that there is no subordinatim betwixt the power of the Magistrate, and the power of the Church, but that they are both so immediate under God, as the Church cannot in a Church way regulate the King, as a King, but only as he is a christian man; the Church may rebuke the King, while as he abuseth his kingly power to the destruction of souls, and that the Church power, as such, is not subordinate to the kingly power, only the King may correct with the sword the Pastors, not as Churchmen and Pastor's, but as men who are his subjects. But, 1. whereas it is certain the King in respect of politic power is the immediate Vicegerent of God, and above any subject in his Dominions, so doth the Bishop, make the Shoemaker, the Painter, the master-fashioner immediate unto God and censurable by none, as they are Artificers, even as the King is censurable by none as King, and so the King is dishonoured, who by office is the Lords anointed, and a little God on earth, Psal. 82. v. 1. (2) The intrinsical end of kingly power is no more the advancing of godliness, and the promoving of the King's daughter towards life eternal, by the sincere milk of the Word, as the Lords Vicegerent, and Nursefather of the Church, than the Painter as a Painter, or a Seaman as a Seaman is to advance godliness: for this man's intrinsical and is only a safe harbour and shore to temporal lives, not the harbour of salvation to souls; and his end is only a fair Image of Art in Paper or Clay, not the Image of the second Adam; and by this the King as King is interdicted of any Church business, or care of souls to be fed by the Word or Sacraments, to keep them clean; if he look to any of these, as an end, that is not the eye or intention of the King as King, but of the King as a godly Christian, (saith Spalleto:) hence to care for the spiritual good of the Church, and the promoving of the Gospel is as accidental, as to say, an excellent Painter, such as Ap●ies, intendeth in his painting life eternal: so the King, by this, looketh to the Law of God, to Religion and the eternal happiness of the Church, by guess, by accident, and as King, hath neither chair nor room in Christian Synods, nor a seat in the Church. 3. If the meaning be, that the King as King, that is rightly exercisng the office of a King, is subordinate to no Church power, that is, he cannot be justly and deservedly rebuked by Pastors, that is most true, but nothing to any purpose; for so the Pastor as a Pastor, Jeremiah as he doth truly and in the name of the Lord exercise the prophetical office, cannot be deservedly censured, nor punished either by the Church-synodrie, or the King and Princes of the Land: but thus way all members of the Church, an I any one single believer, doing his duty, should be as immediate, and independent, and highest next on earth to Christ as the King, and his three Estates of the Honourable Parliament are in civil matters, and as an Occumenick Council, or in our brethren's meaning, independent Congregation, which is against reason. But if the meaning be, the acts of a King as aberring from justice, not as a King, but as a frail man, may be censured and rebuked deservedly by Pastors in a Church way; this way also, the Pastor as a Pastor is not subject to the Church, but only as a frail man, and so nothing is said to the purpose in this more than the in the former. But if the meaning be thirdly, that which only maketh good sense, that the acts of the King abstracted from good or bad, or as kingly, or not moral, nor acts of justice or injustice, more than the acts of Painting, of sailing, of making of Shoes, and thus the King is not subject to the Church power, nor is his intrinsical end as King, justice, and godliness and preservation of Religion, the man speaketh nonsense, and wonders; for the King as a King is a moral agent, and not infallible in his Laws or administration. Ergo, as a King he is under the Sceptre of the King of Saints in discipline, and in the keys of the Kingdom of God, and so the kingly office is subordinate to the power of Christ in his Ministers and Church discipline, and by that same reason, the power and offices of Ministers as they are moral agents and obnoxious to sin, to false doctrine, blasphemy, idolatry, idleness and sleepiness in feeding the flock, are under the coactive power of the supreme Governor; and he doth as King use the sword against them: hence it is clear that both the kingly power is subordinate to Church-power, and that the subordination is mutual, that also the Church-power is subordinate to the kingly power, and that both also in their kind are supreme; the kingly power is the highest and most supreme, and under no higher coactive power: I mean the kingly as kingly conjoined with the collateral power of Parliaments, where the Realm is so governed, and the Church-power is the highest in the kind of Ecclesiastical power. t Joan. Major Parisien. lib. 4. sent. didst. 24. q. 3. Joan. Major saith well, that they are not subordinate, that is, not one of them is above another, that I grant, but that which he and Spalleto saith, neutri in alteram est imperium, that neither of the two hath a commandment over another, that we deny, yet are they powers in office and nature different, for they differ in their objects. 2. Use and end. 3. And their manner of specific operations, and the King's power is not ecclesiastic. Others say that there was a perfect civil policy, having no need of the Church power, anent the perfect civil government amongst the Heathen, and in Christian Commonwealths, the civil power of itself and of its own nature can do nothing, for the attaining of eternal happiness, except we would go to the tents of Pelagians, whither Papists do lead us, while as they teach that the natural end of civil power, of its own nature and intrinsically is ordained to eternal happiness. But the civil power of itself doth confer nothing, whereby the spiritual power of the Church hath intrinsically, and properly, and formally its dignity, power, strength, and proper virtue; and doth produce its own proper effect and end, because, as saith w Sp●l●tens de ●ep. eccles. l. 6. ●. 3. n. 17. Spalleto, the civil Magistrates end is of another republic different from the Church, he is head of the Commonwealth, and civil body: see x Guli●l n. Apollonius pastor 〈◊〉 Magist. par. 1. c 3. pag. 5●, 53. Apollonius. But I answer, there is a Policy civil without the Ecclesiastical Policy, and the King is essentially a King, though neither he be a Christian himself, nor his subjects Christians; and to the essence of a King, and to the essence of a civil government, Christianity and a Church-power is not required, yet hath the King as King essentially a right and civil coactive power to promove Christian Religion, and the edification of Christ's body, though he be a Heathen; the want of Christianity doth not take away his kingly right, only it bindeth up and restraineth the exercise thereof; but though he be a King essentially, and actu primo, while he wanteth Christianity, and so is a perfect Magistrate, quoad esse, and the State that he ruleth over, a perfect civil body, quoad esse, in respect of essence and being, yet is he not a perfect Magistrate, quoad 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 operari, neither he nor his civil State and body are perfect in operations. And it followeth not that the King as King can doc nothing about the obtaining of life eternal, for as a King he hath a perfect right, and kingly power to do, and being a Christian he actually exerciseth that power, as a Nursefather of the Church, to see that the King's daughter be fed with wholesome milk, to see that the first and second Table be kept, and that men serve Christ, and have the seals of the Covenant in purity, under the pain of suffering the weight of his royal sword; and I wonder that this should be called nothing for the obtaining of eternal happiness, seeing it is a way to eternal happiness to be thus fed under a Christian King as a King. But (say they) it is Pelagianism that the King's power compelling the Nurses to let out their breasts to the King's daughter, that she may suck the sincere milk of the Word, should be a mean of eternal happiness. I answer, and it is also Pelagianism to say, that the planting of Paul, and watering of Apollo's, and the ministerial power and pains of Ministers, without the grace of God, can produce or effectuate supernatural happiness, and it is false that the kingly power of itself doth confer nothing whereby the spiritual and ecclesiastical power hath intrinsically and formally dignity, and power, and its proper effect; for it is true, the kingly power maketh not the ecclesiastical power, but it setteth it on work, in a coactive way, for the edifying of Christ's body, and doth causatively edify. Lastly, whereas it is said the King as King is over the civil body and the Commonwealth, which is a body different in nature from the Christian body or Church; I say, that is false, for the King as King ruleth over men, as men, and also as Christian men, causing them to keep both the Tables of Law. But 3. (say they) the office of a King is not a mean sanctified of God for a supernatural good, because it is amongst the Gentiles. I answer, this is no consequence, for that office of itself is sanctified and ordained of God, for keeping of both Tables of the Law, and that it worketh not this, in its own kind, is not from the nature of the kingly office, but from the sinful disposition of the Gentiles; so the Word is the savour of death to some, through their default. Ergo, it is not a mean sanctified for that end; it followeth not. But 4. the office of the King of itself and its own power doth not govern or subdue the inward man, for immediately and of its own power it cannot bind the conscience, but only by the interveening mediation of the Word of God. Ergo, of itself it intendeth not to produce a supernatural and eternal good. Answ. Nor can the office of a Minister of itself, and in its own power, produce a supernatural good, but only by the authority of the Word, Esa. 8. 20. Jer. 23. v. 22. Tit. 1. 9 10. is it therefore no office sanctified for a supernatural end? But 5. they reason, a supernatural good, and life eternal, are effects flowing from the mediatory office of Christ, bestowed upon the Church: but the kingly power floweth not from the Mediator Christ, but from God as Creator, who bestoweth lawful Kings and Magistrates upon many Nations, who know nothing of a Saviour. I answer, When I consider the point more exactly, I see not how Kings, who reign by the wisdom of God Jesus Christ, Prov. 8. 14. 15. have not their kingly power from Christ, who hath all power given to him in Heaven and in Earth, Matth. 28. 18. for they are Nurse-fathers' of the Church as Kings, Esa. 49. 15. they are to kiss the Son, and exalt his Throne, as Kings, Psal. 2. 11. they bring presents and kingly gifts to Christ as Kings, Psal. 72. v. 10. 11. and they serve Christ not only as men, but also as Kings, as Augustine saith: y August Epist ad Ro●●faccom. 50. therefore are they ordained, as means, by Christ the Mediator, to promote his kingly Throne. Some of our Divines will have the kingly power to come from God as Creator, in respect God giveth Kings, who are his Vicegerents, to those who are not redeemed, and to Nations who never heard of Christ; and others hold that the kingly power floweth from Christ-Mediator, in respect he accomplisheth his purposes of saving of his redeemed people, by King's authority, and by the influence of their kingly government, procureth a feeding ministry and by their princely tutory, the edification of his body the Church, which possibly both aim at truth. See a Survey of discipline. c. 23 the groundless carping at Cartwright, Calvin, Beza, and others, by that sharp toothed envier of truth the Author of the Survey of holy discipline: of this hereafter more. 4. Conclusion. The King as King hath not a nomothetick, or legislative power to make Laws in matters ecclesiastic, in a constitute Church, nor hath he a definitive sentence, as a Judge. 1. All power of teaching publicly the Church or the Churches of Christ, is given to those who are sent and called of God for that effect: but Magistrates as Magistrates are not sent nor called of God to the public teaching of the Church. Ergo. The proposition is clear from the like, Rom. 10. 14. How shall they preach, except they be sent? Ergo, how shall they publicly and synodically teach, except they be sent? Heb. 5. 4. No man taketh this honour upon him, but he that is called of God, as was Aaron, etc. Ergo, if none be a Priest to offer a Sacrifice without God's calling, neither can he exercise the other part of the Priesthood, to teach synodically, & to give out (〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉) decrees, Acts 16. 4. that obligeth the Churches ecclesiastically, but he who is called. 2. Who so hath nomothetick power to define and make Laws in matters ecclesiastic, have only a ministerial power to expone Christ's will in his Testament, under pain of Church-censures, and hath no coactive power of the sword to command these Laws enacted, and to enjoin them on the Churches. But only Churchmen, who are formally members of the Church, as Pastors, Doctors, Elders, and others sent by the Church have this ministerial power; without the coactive power of the sword, and what ever the Magistrate as the Magistrate, commandeth, he commandeth it, in things ecclesiastic necessary and expedient, under bodily punishment; I add this, because threatening of bodily punishment, is not essential to Laws in general, because some Laws are seconded only with rewards, as the Judge offereth by law a reward to any, who shall bring unto him the head of a Boar, or of some notorious robber. Ergo, etc. The proposition is clear; the learned b junius C●nt. 3. l. 1. c. 20. not. 12. Junius giveth to the Magistrate with our Divines, an interpretation of Scripture, as a Judge; which concerneth his own practice, they are interpreters, pro communi vocationis modo, in a Christian way, as private men, but they have no power of ecclesiastic interpretation. 2. c Gul. Apolon. de jure Magistr. par. 2. c. 4 pag. 257. Gul. Apollonius saith, the Prince as a Christian, hath an office to exhort the Sunod, by word or Epistle, as Constantius did the Fathers of the Nicen Council; and his Legates exhorted the Council of Chalcedon, ut Deo rationem reddituri. See d Ruffinus Eister. eccles l 1 c. ●. Ruffinus e Act. conc. Clalced. act. 2 and the acts of the Council of Chalcedon. 3. The Magistrate hath a power judicial, as a Magistrate, in so far as his own practice is concerned, to expone the things defined, but this expotition he useth, non instruendo synodice, non docendo ecclesiastice, sed docendo seu potius mandando cum certa relatione ad paenam à brachio seculari insligendam contemptoribus, not in an ecclesiastical way teaching and instructing synodically, but teaching or rather commanding with a certain relation to civil punishment, to be inflicted upon the contemners; as he teacheth, what is just, or unjust in his civil Laws, not directly to inform the mind, but to correct bad manners, and this maketh the object of kingly power about Church's matters, and the object of ecclesiastical power, formal objects different. 3. Those who have a nomothetick power to define in Synods, are sent by the Church to Synods with authoritative commission and power for that effect, representing the Church which sent them, as all who are sent with any ambassage do represent those who sent them. But Magistrates as Magistrates, are not sent to represent those who sent them with authoritation commission of the Church. Ergo, they have no such power ●●d●ine in Synods. I prove the proposition from the Apostles practise: Paul and Barnabas were sent as chosen men by the Church 〈◊〉 Antioch, Acts 15. 2. 3. Acts 15. 6. the Apostles and Elders came from the Church to consider of this matter, Acts 21. 18. Acts 22. 17. 〈◊〉 2 Cor. 8 17, 18. if the Apostle with the Church sent Titus 〈◊〉 Brother, whose praise is in the Gospel, as chosen of the Churches, to travel with us, v. 19, in gathering the charity of the Saints, for the poor at Jerusalem, then by the like, those who are sent to declare the minds of the Churches, are also clothed with the authority of the Churches, who sent them; but Magistrate's a● such, are not sent, but are there with the sword of Commonwealth, and not with the mind of the Church, as Magistrates, except they be also Christians. 4. The Apostolic Synods, is to us a perfect pattern of Synods. but persons defining in them are Apostles and Elders, Acts 16. 4. Acts 15. 6. the Church, Matth. 18. 18. defineth, and 1 Cor. 5. 4. those who are convened in the name of the Lord ●esus, and the Apostles pastoral spirit, those who are over us in the Lord, and watch for our souls, 1 Thes. 5. 14. Heb. 13. 17. but in these Synods there are no Magistrates, yea there was at C●rinth a Heathen Magistrate, 1 Cor. 6. 1. and in the Apostolic Church a persecutor, Acts 22. 1, 2, 3. etc. And the Magistrate as the Magistrate, is not a member of the Church, and is neither Pastor, Elder, nor Doctor, nor a professor of the Gospel, except he be more than a Magistrate. 5. No Ecclesiastical power, or acts formally Ecclesiastical, are competent to one who is not an Ecclesiastical person, or not a member of the Church, but a civil person; but a power to define in Synods, and the exercise of acts Ecclesiastical and matters Ecclesiastical, are due to Ecclesiastical persons, and to the Church. Ergo, they are not competent to the civil Judge. The proposition is evident by differences betwixt Ecclesiastical persons and civil Magistrates, which might be more accurately set down by others, then by me. But they differ, 1. that the Church's power is spiritual, the Magistrates causatively, effectively or objectively spiritual, but not intrinsically and formally spiritual, because he may command by the power of the sword spiritual acts of preaching, administrating the Sacraments purely, of defining necessary truths in Synods, and forbid the contrary, but he cannot formally himself exercise these acts. 2. The Churchmen are members of the Church, the Magistrate as such is a politic Father and Tutor of the Church, but not formally, as he is such a member of the Church. 3. The power of the Magistrate is carnal, and corporal, and coactive upon the bodies; for which cause, Tylenus, Daneus and others say, the external man is the object of his power, the power of the Church is spiritual, not carnal, not coactive, not bounded upon the body; the Church hath neither power of heading or hanging, but only they may use the sword of the Spirit, exhortations, rebukes, censures, excommunication. 4. Edification to be procured by the Word and Sacraments and Church-censures, is the end of Church-power, but edification to be procured by the sword, is the end of the civil Magistrate. 5. The Magistrate judgeth not what is true and false to be believed simply, as teaching, instructing, and informing the conscience, but only what is true and false to be believed or professed in relation to his sword and bodily punishment, or civil rewards. 6. The Magistrate's judgement is kingly, supreme, peremptory, and highest on earth, from which we are to provoke in no sort, except in appealing to God; the Church's judgement is ministerial, conditional, limited by the Word of God. 7. The Magistrate's power is over all, Heathen and Christian, over men as men, and over men as Christians, and agreeth to Heathen and Christian Magistrates alike; the Church power agreeth only to members of the Church, and is only over members of the Church as they are such. 8. What ever causes the Magistrate handleth, as hurtful to the Commonwealth, and contrary to the Law of God, in a politic and civil way, these same the Churches handleth as they promote edification; or if they be sins, the Church cognosceth of them, sub ratique scandali, as they are Church scandals. 9 The civil power is above the Churchmen as they are Churchmen, and members of a Christian Commonwealth, and the Church power is above the Magistrate as he is a member of the Church and to be edified to salvation, or censured for scandals, Matth. 18. 17. 2 This. 15. 13. 1 Tim. 5. 20. and therefore there is both a mutual subordination betwixt the honours, and also because both are highest and most supreme in their ●ind, they are also coordinate, and two parallel supreme powers on earth: as the Church hath no politic power at all, so hath the Church no politic power above the King, but he is the only supreme power on earth immediate under God; so the King hath no power formally and intrinsically ecclesiastical over either the Church, or any member of the Church, but the Church's power is supreme under Christ the King and head of the Church. 10. The Church's power may be without the Magistrate, and is complete both in being and operation, as Acts 1. 1. and Acts 15. 1, 2. 1 Cor. 5. 1, 2, 3, 4. without it, yet it is helped much by the Magistrate's power, which is cumulative, to add help to the Church, and not privative, to take away any right or privilege from the Church, for then the Church should be in worse case and greater bondage, under a Christian King, then if there were no King to defend the Church at all, if the King's power were privative; and it is true the Churches own power is cumulative, & not privative, because the Church hath no power to take nothing from itself; but the King is to add his royal ●●ield to the Bride of Christ, out of zeal to the honour of the Bridegroom, for a politic promoving of godliness, which the Church as such wanteth. But the kingly power though it may be, and is, in Heathen Nations perfect in its being without the Church power, yet is it not perfect in its operations, as is said. 11. The Church power is to go before, and to define, prescribe and teach first, and the civil power to add a civil sanction thereunto, as an accumulative and auxiliary supplement. 12. The Magistrate hath no power properly to define controversies, yet hath he the power of the judgement and discretion, and also may with a coactive power cognosce in a politic way of Church matters in reference to the use of the sword, but the Church as the Church hath a ministerial power 〈◊〉, to define controversies according to the Word of God. 13. Every one helpeth another to obtain their own ends, but hey cannot be contrary one to another formally, yet do these differences prove, that the Magistrate, as such, cannot detine in a Synod, what is truly to be believed and practised by members of the Church, what not. And also godly Princes have refused this. Hosius Cordubensis writeth to Constantius the Arrian Emperor, which words Athanasius commendeth. Desine, desine, quaeso, & memineris te mortalem esse, reformida di●m judi●ii, neque te immisecas eco'esiasticis, nec nobis in hoc genere praecipe, se●e● potius a nobis disce: tibi autem d●us imperiun● commisit, nobis autem quae sunt ecclesiae, concredidit. Ambrose epist. 14. ut alii. 33. ad Marcellinam sororem, dicit, se Valentiniano dicere, Nolite gravare, imperator, ut ●u●es te in e t, quae divina sunt, imperiale jus habere, noli te extollere, sed si vis divinitus imperare, esto etc. subditus— ad imperatorem palatia pertinent, ad sacerdotem ecclesia; publicorum tibi maenium jus ancessum est, non sacrorum. Augustin. Epist. 48. & 162. Neque ausus est Christianus imperator, sic eorum (Donaristarum) tumultuosas et fallaces querelas suscipere, ut de judicio Episcoporum, qui Romae sederent, ipse judicaret 16. iis ipse (imperator) cessit ut de illa causa, post Fpiseopos, ipse judicaret, a sanctis antistitibus postea veniam petitucus. Chrysost. hom. 4. & 5. de verbis Esa. Qumquam admirandus videtur thronus regius, tamen rerum terrenarum administrationem sortitus est, nee praeter potestatem hanc, praetere ●quicquam autoritatis habet. Leontius Tripoli Lydiae Episcopus, cum Constantius in eonventu Episcoporum multa praescriberet, Miror (inquit) qui fiat, ut aliis curandis destinatus, alia tracts, qui cum rei militari et reipublicae praesis, Episcopis ea praescribas, quae ad solos pertinent Episcopos. Constantinus Magnus in concilio Niceno (ut ait Ruffinus hist. l. ●. addit. Eusebio cap. 2.) re●usavit far ju licium inter Episcopos. D●us (inquit) vos constituit sacerdotes, & nobis a d●o d ●ti isiis judices, & conveniens non est, ut homo judicet deos. S●zomenus hist. l. 6. c. 7. Mihi (inquit Ualentinianus senior) qui sum in sort plebis, fas non est talia negotia & ecclesiastica, ●erserutari; sacerdotes, quorum ista curae font, inter seipsos, quocunque voluerint loco, conveniant. Theodosius Junius epist. ad Fphesinum Synodum. Deputatus est Candidianus magnificus Comes strenu●rum domesticorum transire usque ad sanctissimam Synodum testram, ac in nullo quidem, quae facienda sunt, de piis dogmatibus qu●stiones ●ommunicare: illicitum namque est, eum qui non sit ex ord●●●anctorum Episcoporum, ecclesiasticis immisceri tractatibus. Gregorius Mag. l. 5. Epist. 25. Notum est piissimos dominos dicip●inam diligere, ordines servare, canon's venerari, & in causis sa 〈◊〉 ●ese non immiseere. Distin. 96. C. satis evidenter, illicitum est imperatorihus ecchsiasti ● s● immiscere tractatibus. Constantius would not take on him to judge the Arrian cause, but conveened a Council, and commanded them to judge according to the word: So saith Eusebius de vita Constant. l. 3. c. 10. ad Theodor. l. 5. c. 9 Neither can it be said that Constantine judged with the Synod as Emperor, as some affirm, for though it be true, yet he judged not in the Synod as Emperor, but as Episcoporum conservus as he nameth himself, and as Eusebius saith, de vita Constant. l. 3. c. 16. ipse tanquam unus e vestro numero, non recusabam. Now Constantine as Emperor was not a fellow-servant with Pastors or one of the number, but above them, as the anointed of the Lord; but he judgeth with them, as one of their number, as a Christian having one faith, one baptism, one Lord, with them; and so as a member of the Church, and so saith he in that same place, Literarum divinitus inspiratarum testimonio res in quaestionem adductas dissolvamus. And let this be our first distinction. Emperors of old defined in Synods, as Christian members Distinct. 1. of the Church, not as Emperors, for as Emperors they be politic heads of the men of the Church. Gerardus Tom. 6. de Gerardus. Magist. polit. n. 175. pag. 586, 587. who giveth also a nomotheticke power to Magistrates in matters ecclesiastical, furnisheth us with an argument here, because the Magistrate is a principal member of the Church, and all the members of the Church are to judge and try the spirits, and to try all things, now this proveth well as a member of the Church, and so as a Christian he may judge, and that in a mere ecclesiastic way, as Pastors and Elders doth, as private Christians may do, being called thereunto by the Church, though the ground be weak, for the Kingly power maketh not New, Tiberius and other Emperors, members of the Church, only grace, faith, and communion with Christ, maketh Kings members of the invisible Church, and baptism and profession of the faith, and not any earthly Prerogative of Sceptre, or Crown, maketh them members of the visible Church. Our second distinction from Fathers, is, that Emperors have a Kingly power politic to confirm, and add their civil sanction Distinct. 2. to Church constitutions, but they have no power formally ecclesiastic to define and make Church-lawes. So a Augustin ad Bonisac. Commit. circa epist. 50. Quia vero etiam Rex est ser vit, Leges justa praecipientes, & contraria prohibentes, conventente rigore sanciend●, sicut servivit Rex Ninivitatum, universam civitatem ad placandum dominum compellendo. Augustine: as a man the King serveth the Lord, vivendo fideliter, by living the life of a sound believer, and as a King he serveth the Lord, by adding the convenient vigour of a civil sanction to just Laws— as the King of Ninive did, by compelling the men of Ninive to pacify God. And when Gaudentius the Donatist objected that the Emperor could not take course with the Schism made in the Church by their separation, because God hath laid upon Prophets, not upon Kings, the Preaching of the word: Augustine b August. l. 2. co●r. epist. Gaudentii. c. 26. quamdiu vos non tenetis ecclesia●, quam praenunciaverunt Piscatores, Apestoli plantaverunt, tam diu reges qui eam tenent, rectissime ad s●am curam indicant per●nere, ne ●os adversus eum rebelletis impune. answereth, not that Kings may either preach, or define controversies in the Church, but that, sinco Donatists separate from the Church, it should be the care of Kings to see, that none rebel against the Church of Christ. Hence I reason thus, no Synods ecclesiastical can meddle with the blood and temporal lives of men, nor can they forbid the belief and profession of heresies and erroneous doctrine, or scandals against pure discipline under the pain of bodily punishment, as banishment, imprisonment, heading or hanging. But Emperors and Kings, either in a Synod or out of a Synod, may lawfully forbid such things, and that by a Kingly power, therefore if Emperors in Synods make any Laws of this kind, they are not Synodical, nor ecclesiastical Laws, nor do they make such Laws, jointly with the Church-Synod, as some teach, nor by any ecclesiastic power, for coactive power, and ecclesiastical power, cannot be joined together as one power, to make one and the same ecclesiastical laws. Let any judge then if the ancient Laws of some Emperors were any other things, but civil and politic sanctions of Church-constitutions. And judge of this Law, which some call the ecclesiastical determination of c Imperat Constitut. ●. Heraclius the Emperor by the consent of Pope John, he ordained that there is n●●ther one nor two operations in Christ. Heraclius a Monothelite commanded this under the pain of civil punishment, as is certain. But had Pope John as collateral Judge with the Emperor in this, that same coactive power that the Emperor had? I think none can say it. So d In c●dice l. leg ●unctus populu●. c. le s●m. Trinit. three Emperors commanded all people to hold the doctrine of the Trinity, and that those who hold not this be heretics. This is but a civil sanction of a Church Law. So e C●d●ce leg. 4. Synod Chaicedenensis de ●●de Christiana justa cap●sitinnes a 〈◊〉 a ●●●●d 〈◊〉, per nost●a decreta statuta sunt. Martianus commandeth that the decrees of the Council of Chalcedon be established, and that no man dispute or call in question these decrees. This is clearly the Emperor's civil ratification of Church-lawes: and f justinian. Novel. 123. c. 32. Justinianus forbiddeth any public service to be in the Church by laics only, in the absence of the Clergy, and g Novel. 137. c. 6. commandeth the Bishops not to muttter in to themselves, but to speak in the administration of the Sacraments with a clear and distinct voice. If Emperors did proceed any further, as some say that Theodosius deposed the Nestorian Bishops, though indeed he only h L. 3. the s●●●. tr●n. commanded them to be deposed, their deeds are not Laws, a facto ad jus non valet consequentia. Papists here are in two extremities. For 1. they will not have Princes to meddle with Church-affaires, whereas by office they are Nurs-fathers' in the Church. Charles the fifth is rebuked by Paul the third, because he conveened counsels for composing of dissensions in the Church, and he compareth him to Uzzah, who touched the Ark without warrant, as we may see i Wolsius tom. 2 lect. moral. pag. 539. Wolsius. 2. Stapleton, Bellarmine, k Bellarmin. l 3. de la●cis c. 17. and Papists will have them to be brutish Servants, to execute whatsoever the Pope and Counsels shall decree, good or bad, without examination also; as l Suarez in opuscul. l. 3. the Primate. Sum●● Pontif c. 22. Suarez, the Council of Paris, their n D●s●●on. 96. si 〈◊〉. Law saith, and o D●st. 22. inc. Qu●ties 24. q. 1. Innocentius the first, and p In cap●●e qu● di●●et. Gregory the seventh do teach: Making Kings in their judgement slaves to the Pope and ' his determinations, and to have no light but from their virtual Church, as the Moon hath all her light from the Sun. Our third distinction is, that the Magistrate as Magistrate, and a preserver of public peace, may do some thing, when a Schism and dissension is among the Churchmen in a Synod. 1. In this case he may punish perturbers of peace, as Augustine answereth q August. cont. epist. Gauden. l. ●. c. 26. Gaudentius the Donatist, and the separaters from the Church, in which case the Magistrate indirectly condemneth one of the parties, which the Church hath condemned: but there be many other cases of dissension in this case; therefore when the Magistrate findeth the Synod divided in two parties equally; or three, i● the corrupt part prevail; or four, in the case of the Church's aberration in one particular fact: or five, if there be an universal apostasy of the whole representative Church: or six, an universal defection of both the representative and essential Church: all these being too casual and of too frequent occurrence, one and the same answer cannot be given, and here be sundry subaltern distinctions considerable. Hence our fifth Conclusion: when there is an equal rupture in the body, nothing extraordinary would be attempted, if ordinary ways can be had: if Saul the ordinary Magistrate had at God's Commandment killed Hagag, Samuel the Prophet should not have drawn his Sword, and therefore in this case the Magistrate would first seek help from other Churches, as that r Apollonius de jure Magist. ●oc. cit pag. 206. learned Apollonius saith. But if that cannot be conveniently had, as in a national Church it may fall out, than the Magistrate as a preserver of peace and truth, may command the sincerer part to convene in a Synod, and do their duty, as the good Kings of the people of God did: 2 Chron. 15. Asa gathered together a people who entered in Covenant to seek the Lord God with all their heart, and laid an obligation of punishment to death on the rest, v. 12, 13. and Jehoshaphat, 2 Chron. 23. 4. he laid charge on Hilkiah the High Priest, and the Priests of the second order, whom he knew to be better affected to the work, to bring out the Vessels made for Baal; which proveth that the King should put the sincerest to do that, which in common belongeth to the whole, in which case of the erring of the most part of the Church, the Prince indirectly condemneth the erring part of the Synod, because it is his place to forbid and to punish with the sword, the transgressors of Gods Law. But because his power is accumulative, not privative, under that pretence he hath not power to hinder the sincerer part to meet and determine according to the Word of God. 6. Conclusion. In the case of the prevailing of the corrupt part of the Church, or in the fourth case of the aberration of the Church in one particular, the King hath a regal power to punish the Canonists, if they shall decree in their Synod Popery, and heretical doctrine, and so give to the Bride of Christ noisome and deadly milk; the Prince as nursefather may punish the Canonists. 1. Because he is a keeper of both Tables of the Law, and hath a royal power to inflict bodily punishment upon all sins, even committed, in foro exteriore ecclesiae, as the King may punish false teachers. 2. Because the Magistrate's power is auxiliary & accumulative, as a tutor and nur●efather, who hath law to help the Pupil, and to add to the inheriritance, but hath no Law nor power to take away any part of the inheritance from the Pupil; Ergo, as a nursefather, he is to help the Church of Christ, against the wicked Canons of the representative Church. If any object, than the King as King hath power to rescind and annul the ecclesiastical Canons; the contrary whereof that learned author of Altar Damascenum s Didoclavius dad. Caldern ●●d in altars Damas●cnode commentatus ●egi●s, pa. 29, 30. doth prove. I answer, that learned and worthy author proveth that the Prince cannot annul the Church-Canons, and that the council of Trent thought shame that the Pope should absolve any condemned by the Church-Canons; and certainly the same power that maketh Canons should dissolve them; but the King's power cannot make Church-Canons, for it is a part of the ministerial calling to make Canons, and therefore he cannot annul and dissolve Canons: but some greater Kingly power is due to the King in the case of the Church's aberring, then in the case of the Churches right administration; and as our Divines do justly give to the Prince an extraordinary Kingly power in the case of universal apostasy of the Church, as Jehoshaphat, Hezekiah, Josiah, and other worthy reformers in the Church of the ●ewes, did warrantably use their Kingly power, when the Churchmen were corrupted and negligent in their duty; so in a particular case of a particular error of the Synod, the King as King, may use his Kingly power in this fact, that is, secundum quid extraordinary, for the King is obliged as King to add his accumulative power of a civil sanction to all just and necessary Church constitutions, and it the Canon or Church constitution be wicked and popish, he is obliged to deny his civil sanction, and not that only, (for he that is not with Christ is against him) but he is to employ his kingly power against such Canons, and so is to deliver the Church of God in that, and in denying his accumulative power to unjust Canons, he addeth his kingly power accumulative to the true Church, in saving them from these unjust Canons. 2. Also it may be objected, If the King by a regal and coactive power may annul and rescind unjust Canons, he may by this coactive power make Canons, for it is that same power to make and unmake Canons. I answer, if he may annul unjust Canons, that is, liberate his subjects from civil punishment to be inflicted for refusing obedience to such Canons, and for bid the practice of wicked Church constitutions under the pain of the sword; It will not follow, that therefore he may make Canons, but only that he may add his civil sanction to just Canons. 2. Neither can the King properly annul the Canon, but only deny to add his civil authority for the execution of such Canons. But thirdly, it is objected, that the King bathe a judgement that such Canons are wicked and superstition; the Church-mens judgement at the assembly of Glascow, Edenbrough, an. 1638, 1639. is that such Canons are lawful, edificative, and necessary, then is the King obliged as King to deny his royal sanction, and who shall be Judge in the matter? If you say the Word of God, it satisfyeth not, because both the King, and the Synod, allegeth the Word of God, as norm ● judicandi, a rule of judging, but the rule of judging is not formally the Judge, but we uske who shall be the visible ministerial and vocal Judge under Christ, speaking in his own Testament, for the King is a Politic and civil Judge, and the Church an Ecclesiastical Judge. I answer, this same is the question betwixt us and Papists anent the Judge of controversies, whether the Judge be a Synod or the Scriptures; and we answer by a distinction, the Scripture is norm i judicandi. 2. Christ, the peremptory and infallible Judge speaking in his own Word. 3. A Synod lawfully convened, is a limited, ministerial, and bounded visible Judge, and to be believed in so far as they follow Christ the peremptory and supreme Judge speaking in his own Word. But we deny that there is on earth any peremptory and in fallible visible Judge. But to come yet nearer; if the King have sworn to that same religion which the Church doth profess, and so acknowledge and profess the reformed religion of that Church, he must then acknowledge the lawful officers of that Church to be his ordinary teachers, and the lawful ministers of the Church, and that they are both in a Synod, and out of the Synod, to preach, and to be ministerial definers of things controverted, and that they shall first determine in an ecclesiastical way according to God's Word, and he as King is to command them to determine according to God's Word, under the pain of civil punishment, and the King's civil and coactive way of judging is posterior and ratificator●e of the right and oxthodox ecclesiastical determination, and Junius saith that the Magistrates judging politic, presupposeth the Church judging ecclesiastical, going before; and d Calvinus inst●●. l. 4. c. 11. sect. 15. Calvin e Amesius to n. 2 in Bellarm. 〈◊〉 at. c. 6. n. ●. and Amesius are clear that in this case the Church is to cognosce of he own ecclesiastical affairs. Ambrose writeth to the Emperor Valentinian, that none should judge of this cause which is ecclesiastical as one said, but a Churchman, qui nec munere sit impar, ne●jure dissimilis. Gelasius the Pope inveigheth against Anastasius the Emperor, because he confounded these two, civil and ecclesiastical causes. But if the Emperor or King profess not the religion of the land, and repute it false, and if the religion be indeed heretical, than the Church is not constitute, and the case extraordinary; but the truth is, neither the King's judgement, as a certain rule to the representative Church, nor the representative Church's judgement a rule to the King, but the Word of God the infallible rule to both. Judgement may crook, truth cannot bow, it standeth still unmoveable like God the father of truth; but in this case if both err, ex cellently saith f Junius ar● nad. in bellarm. de council. l 1. c. 12. 〈◊〉. 18. Desiciente conjunctione Magist 〈…〉 aliquid ecclesia extra ordine●n sace●●, q●●d ordinary non potest, & ●●ntra desiciente ecclesia a suo officio, potest magi●●●atus 〈◊〉 ordinein procurare, ut ecclesia ad 〈…〉, ●d enim juris communis est, extraordinar●is mai●s remedia eti am extra ordinem adhiberi posse. Junius, the Magistrate erring the Church may do something extraordinarily, and t●e Church erring the Magistrate may do something also in an extraordinary way, as common equity and mutual law requireth that friends with mutual tongues bicke the wounds of friends. Also fourthly, some say, they who make the King the head of the Church, acknowledge that the King doth not judge, except the matter be first defined in the Scriptures, and in the general counsels, yet they give a primacy spiritual in matters ecclesiastical to the King, and therefore if the King as King may forbid the enacting of wicked Canons, he determineth them to be wicked, before the Synod have passed their judgement of them. I answer, that learned g Calderwood in 〈◊〉 Damascene, pag. 20. Calderwood saith indeed, the pretended Lords of high Commission have an act for them under h Elizabeth stat. ●. ●. ●. Queen Elizabeth for this effect, but it is made for the fashion, for all errors and heresies are condemned in Scripture, but not only should there be a virtual and tacit determination of matters ecclesiastic, which is undeniably in Scripture, and may be in general counsels also, but also a formal Synodical determination in particular must go before the Prince's determination in a constitute Church. The Prince may before the Synods determination exhort to the determination of what he conceiveth is God's will in his Word, but he cannot judicially and by a Kingly power determine in an orderly way, what is to be defined in a Synod, except he infringe the Church's liberties, and judicially prelimit under the pain of civil punishments, the free voices of the members of the Synod, which is indeed, an abuse of the authority of a nurs-father. But five, it may be objected that he may, in a thing that is manifestly evident by the Word of God to be necessary truth, command by the power of the sword, that the Synod decree that, or this particular, so clear in the Word, the contrary whereof being Synodically determined, he may punish by the sword, and so he may judicially predetermine some things before the S●nod pass their Synodical act thereon, and if he may predetermine judicially one thing, he may predetermine all things. I answer: what the King may judicially determine and punish with the sword, that he cannot judicially predetermine and command in any order that he pleaseth, but in a constitute Church, whereof he is a member and to be taught, he is to determine judicially in an orderly way, as a nurs-father. But sixthly, it may be objected, that if the King have a judicial power by the sword to annul unjust acts, then hath he a power to 〈◊〉 them, though he abuse that power in making them, as unjust, and then hath he a power to interpret Church acts, and to defend them; 〈…〉 Law i Lib. 22. si 〈◊〉 ●. de leg●●●s princ●p. saith, it is not same power to make Laws, and to d●●●nd them, and interpret them: see k Paraeus. Comment. in R ●●. 13. dull. 5. mappend p●●. 8. arg. 2. Paraeus. I answer, the proposition is not universally necessary, except only in civil matters, in the which, as the Prince who is absolute hath supreme authority to defend, and interpret civil laws, so hath he power to make them; for if the Magistrate hath a supreme judicial power to interpret Church-Lawes, he is a minister of the Gospel in that case, and may by that same reason administer the Sacraments, so the argument is a just begging of the question. 2. Though the King have power in case of the Church aberration (which is somewhat extraordinary) it followeth not therefore, in ordinary, he hath a nomothetick power to make Church-Lawes. Also seventhly, it may be objected, if the King in case of the Church's aberration, may by the sword rescind Church-Lawes, then may he make a Law to rescind them: but those who affirm that the King hath a sort of primacy and headship over the Church, say not that the King hath any power formally ecclesiastical to make Laws, as Ministers in a Synod do, but only that he hath a power to command any form of external worship, under the pain of bodily punishment, they say not that the King may preach, administrate the Sacraments, or excommunicate or inflict any Church-censures. I answer, the transcendent power of Princesand their commissioners is not well known, for the authors (saith l Calderwood 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. Da●nas. pag. 36. Lance●. Andrea's. Calderwood) agree not among themselves; but it is true in words, the author m Torture. torti. 95. dicimus regem gubernare ecclesiastica, sed non ecclesiastice. est Tortura torti, the Bishop of Eli denyeth in words (if you have strong faith to believe him) all spiritual headship over the Church, to the King, and n Burbilius in vindic. Tortu a tc●ti. pa. 55. non dicit (Ep. sc. Eliensis) primatum spiritualem, sed primatum quoad spiritualia, de be ●i regibus omni jure. Burbillus also. But o Hen. Salcobrigiensis in Becano. baculo pag. 140. Henric. Salcobrigiensis calleth the King primatem ecclesiae Anglicanae, the Primate of the Church of England and age's oleo sacro uncti, capaces sunt jurisdictionis spiritualis, because they are anointed with holy oil, therefore are they capable of spiritual jurisdiction; also may (saith he p Pag. create propria autoritate, by his own authority, create Bishops and deprive them. See what q Calderwood in altar. damas pag. 14, 15, 16. & seq. Calderwood hath said, and excerped out of the writings of these men; the King as King, 1. convocateth Synods; 2. defineth ecclesiastical canons; 3. giveth to them the power of an ecclesiastical Law; 4. executeth Church Canons; 5. appointeth commissioners, who in the King's authority and name, may try heresies and errors in doctrine, punish non-conformity to Popish ceremonies, may confine, imprison, banish Ministers; 6. discern excommunication and all Church censures, and use both the swords; 7. relax from the power and censures of all ecclesiastic Laws, give dispensations, annul the censures of the Church, upon causes known to them, give dispensations against Canons, unite or separate Parish Churches, or diocesan Churches; and by a mixed power partly coactive and civil, partly of jurisdiction and spiritual, the King may do in foro externo, in the external court of Church discipline, all and every act of discipline, except he cannot preach, baptise, or excommunicate. And whereas Cartwright saith, when a lawful Minister shall agree upon an unlawful thing, the Prince ought to stay it; and if Church ministers show themselves obstinate, and will not be advised by the Prince, they prove themselves to be an unlawful Ministry, and such as the Prince is to punish with the sword. O but, saith he r Survey of discipl c. 23. pa. 262, 263. the author of the Survey, how shall the Prince help the matter? shall be compel them to convene in a Synod, and retract their mind? but they will not do this. 2. By what authority shall the Prince do this? even by extraordinary authority, even by the same right that David did eat of the Shewbread, if by ordinary authority the Prince would do it, yet do you resist that authority also. Answ. Though the Prince had not external force to compel Churchmen to decree in their Synods things equal, holy, ju●, and necessary, yet it followeth not that the King as King hath not God's right, and lawful power to command and enjoin them to do their duty; force and Law differ much, as moral and physical power differ much. 2. If they decree things good, lawful and necessary, the Prince hath a power given him of God to ratify, confirm, and approve these by his civil sanction, but he hath no power ordinary to infringe, or evert what they have decreed. 3. And if the Church be altogether uncorrigible and apostate, than we say as followeth. 7. Conclution. When the representative Church is universally apostatical, then may the Prince use the help of the Church essential of found believers, for a reformation, and if they also be apostatick, (which cannot be, except the Lord utterly have removed his candlestick) we see not what he can do, but hear witness against them, but if there be any secret seeker of God, in whose persons the essence of a true Church is conserved. The King by a royal power, and the Law of charity is obliged to reform the land, as the godly Kings, with a blessed success have hitherto done, Asa, J●siah, Jehoshaphat, 〈◊〉, in which case the power of reformation, and of performing many acts, of due belonging to the Church officers, are warrantably performed by the King as in a diseased body, in an extraordinary manner power recurreth from the members to the ●●●●tick head and Christian Prince, who both, as a King, 〈◊〉 ●●, in an authoritative way is obliged to do more than ord●●●y, and as a Christian member of the Church, in a charitative and common way, is to care for the whole body. 8. Conclusion. The influence of the Princes regal power in making constitutions is neither solitary, as if the Prince his 〈…〉 could do it; nor is it 2. collateral, as if the Prince and Church with joint concurrence of divers powers did it; nor is 3. as some flatterers have said, so eminently spiritual as the consultation and counsel of Pastors, for light only hath influence in Churches Canons, but the Prince's power hath only the power to design, so as the Canon hath from the Prince the power of a Law in respect of us. The King's influence in Church Canons (as we think) is as a Christian antecedent, to exhort that the Lord Jesus be served; 2. concomitant, as a member of the Church to give a joint suffrage with the Synod; 3. consequent, as a King to add his regal sanction to that which is decreed by the Church according to God's Word, or otherwise to punish what is done amiss. Now that the Prince as a solitary cause, his alone defineth Church matters and without the Church, and that by his ordinary Kingly power, wanteth all warrant of the Word of God. 2. The King might have given out that constitution, Act. 15. It seemeth good to the holy Ghost, and to us, which in reason is due to the ministerial function, for these are called Act. 16. 4. the decrees of the Apostles and Elders, not the decrees of the King or Emperor, either by Law or fact. 3. Christ ascending to heaven gave officers requisite for the gathering of his Church, and the edification of the body of Christ, but amongst these in no place we find the King. 4. If this be true, heathen Kings have right to make Church-Canons, though they be not able, and be not members of the Christian Church, and so without, and not to be judged by the Church, nor in any case censured, Matth. 18. 17. 1. Cor. 5. 11. and this directly is a King Pope, who giveth Laws by a Kingly power to the Church, and yet cannot be judged by the Church. Burhillus and Thomson acknowledge that a Heathen King is primate and head of the Church; and must he not then have power aciu primo, to make Laws, and to feed the flock by external government? But Lancel. Andrea's, Biship of Ely s Episco. Fliens. Torture. terti pag. 39 in Ethnico e●st tera potestas temporalis, idque sinc ordine ad potestatem ecclesiasticam. item Rex quivis own de Ethnico Christianus fit, non perdit terrenum ju●, sed acquirit jus nov●●●. Itidem own de Christiane fit sicut Ethnicus, vigore sententiae, ami●●● novum jus quod acquisiverat, sed retinet terrenum jus in temporalibus, quod sacrat illi proprium, priusquam Christianus fieret. Tortura torti saith that a heathen King hath a temporal Kingly power, without any relation to a Church power, and when he is made of a Heathen King a Christian King, be acquireth a new power. But the question is, if this new power be a new kingly power, or if it be a power Christian to use rightly his former kingly power; if the first be true; then 1. as learned Voetius t Voetius de potest. ecclesi. tract. and good reason saith, he was not a King before he was a Christian, for the essence of the Kingly power standeth in an indivisible point, and the essence of things admit not of degrees. 2. Then should he be crowned over again, and called of God to be a Christian King, and so he was not a King before, which is against Scripture; for Nebuc●adnezzar was to be obeyed, and prayed for as King by the people of God, at Jeremiahs' express commandment. 3. So a pagan husband becoming a Christian should by that same reason acquire a new husband-right over his wife; contrary to the 1 Cor. 7. 13, 14, 15. the Captains, or Masters, who of heathens become Christians, should obtain a new right and power over their Soldiers and Servants, and they should come under a new oath and promise to their Captains and Masters. 4. If the heathen King have only temporal Kingly power, he had no power as King to take care that God were worshipped according to the dictates of the Law of nature, and Law of nations, & had power to punish, perjury, Sodomy, parricid, as sins against the Law of nature, and the heathen King should not by office and Kingly obligation be obliged to be a keeper and a defender of the tables of the Law of nature, which is against all sense. But if the power which a heathen King becoming a Christian King acquireth, be only a Christian power to use for Christ the Kingly power that he had while he was a heathen King, than a heathen King, jure regali, by a regal right is the head of the Church, though he be a Wolf and a Leopard set over the redeemed flock of Christ; yea though he be the great Turk, he is a Pastor called of God & the Church, though for his morals, he be a Wolf and a hireling, yet by office and Law, he is a feeder of the flock. Talis est aliquis, qualem ius offi●ii requirit. And certainly it is impossible that a heathen King can be a member of the true Church, he wanting both faith and profession, which do essentially constitute a Church-membership: if it be said he is ex officio, by his office a member, that is nothing else but he ought to be a member of the Church, so all mankind are members of the Church, for they are obliged to obey Christ, and submit to him upon the supposal of the revealed Gospel, and the heathen King is no otherwise a member by the obligation regal that layeth upon him as King; yea when the Gospel is preached, and the heathen King converted to the faith, he is not a member of the Christian Church, as a King, but as a converted professor, and so Christianity maketh him not a Kingly head of the Church, but what essentially constituteth him a King, that also constituteth him a Christian King; Christianity is an accidental thing undoubtedly to the office of a King. 2. They do no less err, who make the King and the Church officers collateral Judges in Church matters, so as with joint and coequal influence they should be Canon makers. 1. Because perfect Synods are and have been in the Apostolic Church without any influence collateral of Christian Magistrates, as being against their will and mind, who were Rulers of the people, as Acts 1. 14, 15. Acts 2. 46, 47. Acts 4. 1, 2. Acts 6. 1, 2, 3, 4. Acts 15. 6, 7, 8. etc. 2. What the Church decreeth in the name of Christ, standeth valid and ratified in Heaven and Earth, Matth. 18. 17, 18. Joh. 20. 21, 22. whether the Magistrate assent to it or not, so that he hath not a negative voice in it by any ecclesiastic power, for Christ saith not, What ye bind on earth, in my name, shall be bound in Heaven, except the Magistrate deny, as a collateral Judge, his suffrage; Now if he be a collateral Judge by divine institution, no Church act should be valid in Christ's Court without him, as excommunication not in the name of Christ, or performed by those who are not the Church, but only in civil offices, is not excommunication; also what ever the Magistrate doth, as the Magistrate, he doth it by the power of the sword. Ergo, if he take vengeance on the ill doer, as his office is, Rom. 13. 3. 4. his acts are ratified in Heaven, though the Church as collateral Judges say not Amen thereunto. 3. The coactive power of the King, and the Ecclesiastical power of the Church, differ as carnal and spiritual, spiritual and not spiritual, of this world, and not of this world, and are not mixed by the Word oft, as Joh. 18. 36. 2 Cor. 10. 3, 4. 2 Tim. 2. 4. and therefore it in one and the same Church constitution, the King and the Church be joint and coequal Judges and joint definers, the constitution must both be enjoined under the pain of bodily punishment, which the Church, whose weapons are not carnal, cannot command, and under the pain of Church censures, as suspension, rebukes, and excommunication the King must command. Now the Canon should neither be an Ecclesiastical, nor yet a civil Canon, but mixed, for the Canon makers enjoineth with powers and pains which are not due unto them, nor in their power. Now to make a Law (saith w 〈◊〉. F●l 〈◊〉. ●●. 53. Feild) is to prescribe ●●aw under the pain, which the Lawmaker hath power to inflict: but neither hath the Church the power of the sword, 2 Cor. 10. 3, 4. Joh. 18. 36. nor hath the King, by Gods ●aw, the power of excommunication. See x 〈…〉 22. Calderwood. And one and the same Law should be backed both by a carnal and worldly power, and not by a worldly and carnal power. 3. The King as King must have a mixed power, half kingly, ●●● half ecclesiastic, and by the same reason, the Church must have a mixed power, partly Ecclesiastical and partly civil, and this were to confound the two kingdoms, the kingdom of this world, and the spiritual kingdom of Christ, which is not of this world, Joh. 18. 36. condemned by y Anselm● 〈◊〉 Matth. 26. Anselm●, and a Hilarius ●●ntra 〈…〉 bepissed 40 Hilarius, and b Bernard bypast. ad Fu●en. Bernard, and c 〈…〉 Augustin. Put if they say, that every one hath their influence partialitate causae, non eff●cii, according to the nature of causes, then is not one and the same Church constitution from both King and Church. See d 325. 3. 6. Apollonius. But the King's Canon is civil, the Churches Ecclesiastical, and every one of them without another, perfect in their one kind. See e G●●son. Bucer de 〈…〉. pag. 9●. what the learned Gerson, Bucer, and f Amesius in 〈…〉. de 1●. 2. ●. 1. Amesius saith, further to add light to this point. Those who maintain a third, that the Church Canons hath all the power of being Church Laws from the King, and all Ecclesiastical and obliging authority from him, and that they have only some help of consulting power from the Church, are grosser Divines. See g ●●an Weem●s de 〈◊〉. de 〈…〉 7 pag. 88 89. seq. Joan. Weemes, for so the King is the only Canon maker, and the Churchmen giveth advice only, as h The King's 〈◊〉 for the Service B●ok of 〈◊〉 land, A●. 1636. the King's Proclamation speaketh, having taken 〈◊〉 counsel of our Clergy, we command such a worship, & ●. and so the Canon runneth, it seemeth good to the holy Ghost and the King as the Canon speaketh, Acts 15. 2. the King is made an Ecclesiastical and ministerial Preacher to expone publicly the Scriptures to the Church of God, for all lawful Church Canons are but Ecclesiastical expositions of God's Word, and so the Emperors and Christian Kings are the only lawful Canon makers and definers in Oecumenick Counsels, and Bishops, and Pastors, and Doctors have all a mere power of advising and counselling, which certainly all Christians on earth sound in the faith, except women, have. O whither are all the tomes of the Counsels Oecumenick, national, and provincial, evanished unto? 3. Kings justly by this are made Popes, and more than Popes, for Kings only have a definitive voice in counsels, whereas Papists give a definitive voice to all the lawful members of the council, no less then to the Pope. i We 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. Daplex 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 est, un● 〈◊〉 &. 〈◊〉 in 〈◊〉, alia 〈◊〉 s●u imperialis in senatu, illa pastorum, haec p●incipis est. Weemes hath a distinction to save the Kings invading the Church-mens place, while as he giveth to Pastors a ministerial interpretation of Scripture in the Pulpit, and to the King a decretive and imperial power of interpreting Scripture in the Senat. But 1. there is no exposition of the word at all imperial, but only ministerial by the Word of God, except that imperial interpretation, that the Pope usurpeth over the consciences of men, and this is as k Bancroft s●●na● Pauli cruxes. 1589. p 1. 70 Bancroft said, that the King had all the honours, dignities and preeminencies of the Pope, as l Calderwood in altar. Damas. pag. 4. Calderwood observeth, and yet Edward the sixth, and Edward the eighth would neither of them take so much on them. What difference betwixt a Sermon made by the King in the Senate, and the Pastor in the Pulpit? It is that same word of God preached; only the Kings is imperial, and so must be in his own as King, the Pastor's ministerial, in the name of Christ; the distance is too great. The administration of the Sacraments may be imperial due to the King also, as a pastoral administration is due to the Pastors 4. In the government of Church there is nothing set down of the King, but of Pastors, to feed the flock, Act. 20. 28, 29. to edify the body of Christ, Ephes. 4. 11. to rule the house of God, 1 Tim. 3. 2, 3, 4. 16. to feed the sheep and Lambs of Christ, John 21. 14, 15, 16. and always this is given to Pastors and Elders. I know that Kings are nurs-fathers', to feed, edify, and watch over the Church, causatively, by causing others so to do; but this will not content the formalists, except the King command and prescribe the external worship of God. Tooker, Bancroft, Whitegift, La●celot Andreas, Salcobrigiensis have a main distinction here: That Pastors and Elders rule the Church, as it is an invisible body, by the preaching of the word and administration of the Sacraments, and of this government the foresaid places speak: but as the Church is a politic visible body, the government thereof is committed to the King. m Bancroft pag. 48. Bancroft said all the external government of the Church is earthly, and W●i●e●gyft and Bancroft two gross Divines made for the court, say t●e external government of the Church, because external, is ●●spi●●tuall, and not a thing belonging to Christ's external kingdom, (●aith Bil●●n:) but this is, 1 false, 2. Popish, 3. anabaptistical, 4. tyrannical. False, 1. Because external and vocal preaching, and a visible administration of the Sacrament in such an orderly way, as Christ hath instituted, is an external ruling of Church members according to the ●aw of Christ as King, an external ordaining of the worship, is an external ordering of the worshippers according to the acts of worship thus ordered, as sense teacheth us: but the external ordaining of the worship, to preach, this, not this, to celebrate in both kinds, by prayer and the words of institution, and not in one kind only, is an external ordering of God's worship: therefore as Kings cannot administrate the Sacraments, nor preach, so neither can they have the external government of the Church in their ●ands. 2. The feeding of the flock by Pastors set over the Church by the holy Ghost, Act. 20. 28. includeth the censuring by discipline, even the grievous Woolves entering in, not sparing the flock, but drawing disciples after them, vers. 29, 30, 31. and therefore Pastors as Pastors are to watch, and to try those who say they are Apostles 〈◊〉 not, but do lie, R●vel. 2. 2. by discipline; so this external ●e●ding is external governing committed to Pastors, whereas inward governing is indeed proper to Christ the head of the Church. 3. What? do not the Epistles to Timothy contain common dements about external government to be kept inviolable by Timothy, not as a King I hope, but as a Pastor, even 〈◊〉 the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ, 1 Tim. 6. 14. and this taketh away that poor shif●, that the external government of the Church, as n pag. 65. & 304. Tookerus saith, was in the Apostles hands, so long as persecuting Magistrates were over the Church. but now, when the Magistrates are Christians, the case is changed, but the government of all su●● as Timothy is, must be visible, external, and obvious to men, as 1 Tim. 2. 1, 2, 3, 4. 3. 1, 2, 3, 4. ●. 16. 1 Tim 5. 9 1 Tim. 5. 19, 20, 21, 22. 2 Tim. 2. 1, 2, 3, 4. 2 Tim. 3 5. all which must be kept until the coming of Christ, 1 Tim. 5. 21. 1 Tim. 6. 13. 2 Tim. 4. 1, 2. 4. If external government were in the King's power, than were it his part to rebuke publicly, to excommunicate, and to lay on hands upon the Timothy's of the Church; all which are denied by the formalists, and are undoubtedly the Church's part, as the Church, Matth. 18. 17, 18. 1 Tim. 5. 19, 20, 21, 22, 1 Tim. 3. 14. 1 Tim. 1. 20. 1 Cor. 5. 2, 3, 4, 5. 5. o Parker. de polit. eccls l 1. c. 7. Parker proveth well that the keys are Christ as Kings ruling in word and discipline. 2. This is popish, for so doth the Papists teach, as p Stapleton de princip doctrinal. l. 6. c 16 Stapleton and q Becanus 10. 5. Opise cont. Spalat. l. 1. de repub. christi. c. 4. Becanus, that the Pope, quo ad externum infiuxum, according to external influence of visible government is head of the Church, and Christ according to the internal influence of the spirit is the head of the invisible body of Christ, and here the King is installed in that external government, out of which our Divines by Scriptures have extruded the Pope, which is a notable dishonour done to Kings; and as r Parkerus de politeia eccles. l. 1. c. 6. Parkerus observeth. s Raynold. collat. cum Hartio. c 1. divis. 2. Joan. Raynoldus answereth that, from two offices of the head, which is to give life and influence of motion to the members, and also to guide and moderate the actions external of the body, we cannot make two heads; and because the King hath some civil government about the Church, we cannot make two heads over the Church, Christ one, and the King another under him. 3. This is anabaptistical; for because the visible government of the Church is external, we are not to cut off all necessity of the ministry to feed and rule with ecclesiastical authority, and because the Prince is gifted and a Christian, to give all to him, for a calling there must be from God, for the King to govern the Church of Christ by Laws, and prescribing external worship therein, for Christ hath left, Ephes. 4. 1 Cor. 12. 1 Tim. 3. men to be feeders and governor's of his Church by office, whose it is to be answerable for souls, Heb. 13. 18. 4. It is tyrannical, because it putteth power into the Magistrate's hand, to take from the Church, that inbred and intrinsical power of external and visible government over herself and members, which all civil incorporations by instinct of nature have, and the Magistrate, as such, not being a member of the Church hath a headship, even being a heathen Magistrate, over the redeemed body of Christ. 2. By this reason, the Lord Jesus as King hath no Pastors in his name to use the ●●ves of his kingdom, by binding and losing; for discipline being an external thing (say they) is not a part of Christ's kingly power, but the King as Christ's civil vicar hath this power: but I say all acts of Christ as he is efficacious by the Gospel to gain souls, are acts of Christ as powerful by the Sceptre of his Word, and those who are his instruments to exercise these acts are subordined to him as King of the Church, but Churchmen by an external ecclesiastical power delivering to Satan, and externally and visibly casting out of the Church, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord, are instruments subordined to Christ, who is efficacious to save spirits by excommunication, and to gain souls by rebukes. t Greg. Magnus in Psalm penitent. Gregorius Magnus saith, those to whom Christ hath given the Keys of his kingdom, by these he judgeth, and why is this word the word of his kingdom? the Sceptre of his kingdom? the sword that cometh out of his mouth, by which he governeth his subjects, and subdueth nations, so called? but because Christ's kingly power is with those, whom he hath made dispensators of his Word. 9 Conclusion. Nor hath the King power of ordaining Pastors, or depriving them, or of excommunication. 1. All these are acts of spiritual and ecclesiastical power, 1 Tim. 3. 14. 1 Tim. 5. 22. Act. 6. 6. Act. 13. 3. Act. 14. 23. Tit. 1. 5, 6. and flow from the power of the keys, given by Christ to his Apostles and their successors, Matth. 28. 18, 19, 20. Mark. 16. 14, 15, 16. Joh. 20. 21, 22, 23. Hence I argue, to whom Christ hath given out his power, as King of the Church, Matth. 28. 18, 19 power of the keys, Matth. 18. 18. Matth. 16. 19 and a commandment to lay hands, and ordain qualified men, for the ministry, and those who by the holy Ghosts direction practised that power by ordaining of Elders, these only have right to ordain Elders, and their successors after them: but Apostles and their successors only are those to whom Christ gave that power, and who exercised that power, as the places prove. 2. Ordination and election both in the primitive Church of the Apostles was done by the Church, and consent of the multitude, Act. 1. Act. 6. 2, 3, 4. 5, 6, etc. but the civil Magistrate is neither the Church, nor the multitude. 3. Ordination is an act formally of an ecclesiastical power, but the Magistrate as the Magistrate, hath no ecclesiastical power; Ergo, he cannot exercise an act of ecclesiastical power. 4. If ordination were an act of Kingly power, due to the King as King; then 1. The Apostles and Elders usurped in the Apostolic Church the office and throne of the King, and that behoved to be in them an extraordinary and temporary power, but we never find rules tying to the end of the world, given to Timothy's and Elders of the Church anent the regulating of extraordinary and temporary power, that were against the wisdom of God to command Timothy to commit the Word to faithful men, who are able to teach others, as 2 Tim. 2. 2. and to set down the qualification of Pastors, Elders, Doctors, and Deacons to Timothy, as a Church man, with a charge to keep such commandments unviolable to Christ's second appearing; if Timothy and his successors in the holy ministry were to be denuded of that power, by the incoming of Christian Magistrates. 2. The King by the laying on of his hands, should appoint Elders in every city, and the spirits of the Prophets should be subject to the King, not to the Prophets, as the word saith, 1 Cor. 14. 32. 5. Those who have a Church power to ordain and deprive Pastors, must by office try the doctrine, and be able to 〈…〉 sayers, and to find out the Foxes in their heretical ways, and to rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith: but this by office is required of Pastors, and not of the King, as is evident, 1 Tim. 3. 2. 2 Tim. 2. 2●. Tit. 1. 9, 10, 11. It is not enough to say, it is sufficient that the King try the abilities of such as are to be ordained, and the bontgates of heretical spirits to be deprived, by Pastors and Church men, their counsel and ministry, and upon their testimony the King is to ordain, and make, or exauthorate, and unmake Pastors; because 1. so were the King a servant by office, to that which Church men shall by office determine, which they condemn in our doctrine, which we hold in a right and sound meaning. 2. He who by office is to admit to an office, and deprive from an office, must also by office, be obliged to be such as can try what the office requireth of due to be performed by the officer; nor is it enough which some say, that the ignorance of the King in civil things taketh not away his legal power to judge in civil things, and by that same reason, his ignorance in Church matters taketh not away his power to judge in ecclesiastical matters, for I do not reason from gifts and knowledge that is in the King simply, but from gifts which ●x●fficio, by virtue of his Kingly office is required in him. It is ●●ue as King he is obliged to read continually in the book of the Law of God▪ Deut. 17. and to know what is truth, what here●ie, in so fa●re as he commandeth that Pastors preach sound doctrine, and that as a Judge he is to punish heresy. Some say he is to have the knowledge of private discretion, as a Christian, that he punish not blindly. I think he is to know judicially as a King, 1. Because he hath a regal and judicial knowledge of civil things, even of the major proposition and not of the assumption and fact only. Ergo, seeing he is by that same kingly power to judge of treason, against the Crown & the civil State, by which he is to judge of heresy, & to punish heresy, it would seem as King he is to cognosce in both, by a kingly power, both what is Law, and what is fact. 2. Because the judgement of private discretion, common to all Christians, is due to the King as a Christian, not as a King: but the cognition that the King is to take of heresy and blasphemy, whether it be heresy or blasphemy, that the Church ●●●●eth heresy and blasphemy, is due to the King as King, because he is a civil Judge therein, and if the Church should call Christ's doctrine blasphemy, Caesar and his deputy Pontius Pilate, as Judges civil, are to judge it truth. Neither would I ●●i●●●ly here contend; for whether the King's knowledge of herese in the major proposition be judicial, or the knowledge of discretion only, as some say, we agree in this against Papist●, that the King is not a blind servant to the Church, to punish what the Church calleth heresy, without any examination or trial▪ but though the King's knowledge of heresy in the proposition and in Law, be judicial and kingly, yet because he is to cognosce only in so far as he is to compel and punish with the sword, not by instructing and teaching. It would not hence follow that he is to make Church constitutions as King, but only that he may punish those who maketh wicked constitutions, because the Canon maker is a ministerial teacher, the King as King may command that he teach truth, and he may punish heretical teaching, but as King he is not a teacher, either in Synod or Senate, in Pulpit or on the Throne; now if the King by office ordain Pastors, and deprive them, by office he is to know who are able to teach others, a●d must be able also to stop the mouths of the adversaries, and to rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith, and this is required in Titus, Ch. 1. 5 9, 10, 11, 12, 13. as a Pastor, and as an ordainer of other Pastors; therefore that which is required of a Pastor by his office, must also be required to be in the King by his office. 6. It is admirable that they give to King's power to deprive ministers, but with these distinctions. 1. He may not discharge them to preach and administer the Sacraments, but to preach and administer the Sacraments in his kingdom, or dominions, because the King hath a dominion of places. 2. He may discharge the exercise of the ministry; but he cannot take away the power of order given by the Church. 3. He may deprive (say some) by a coactive and civil degradation, because the supreme magistrate may confer all honours in the Christian commonwealth, Ergo, he may take them away again, but he cannot deprive by a canonical and ecclesiastical degradation. 4. He may causatively deprive, that is, compel the Church to deprive one whom he judgeth to be an heretic, and if the Church refuse, he may then in case of the Churches erring, and negligence, as King deprive himself. But I answer, the King as King hath dominion civil of places and times, as places and times, but not of places as sacred in use, and of times as sacred and religious: for his power in Church matters being accumulative, not privative, he cannot take away a house dedicated to God's service, no more than he can take away maintenance allotted by public authority, upon Hospitals, Schools, Doctors and Pastors. God hath here a sort of propriety of houses and goods as men have. Places as sacred abused are subject to regal power, he may inhibit conventions of heretics. 2. The Apostles might preach in the Temple, though civil authority forbid them. 3. King's are as much Lords of places as sacred and public, as they have a dominion of civil places, in respect the King may be coactive power hinder that false and heretical doctrine be preached, either in public, or private places, for this he ought to do as a preserver of both tables and a bear of the Sword for the good of Religion; and if they may command pure doctrine to be preached, and sound discipline to be exercised, they may command the same to be done in public places. The second distinction is not to purpose. 1. To discharge the exercise of a ministry (saith u Alta● Da 〈◊〉 pag. 23. 24. Calderwood) is a degree of suspension, and suspension is an ecclesiastical degree to the censures of excommunication, and therefore the King may as well excommunicate, and remit and retain sins, (which undoubtedly agreeth to the Apostles,) as he can suspend. 2. As for taking away the power of order, it is a doubt to formalists, if the Church can do that at all, seeing they hold Sacraments administered by ministers justly deprived to be valid; Ergo, they must acknowledge an indelible character in Pastors, which neither King nor Church can take away. If then the King deprive from the exercise, he must simpliciter deprive, by their grounds it is weak that they say, the King may deprive from the exercise of a ministry within his own dominions; for (saith Calderwood x Alter Damas● pag. 2●. they all know well that the King hath not power to deprive men from the exercise of the holy ministry, in either foreign Kingdoms. For the third way of deprivation, it hath a double meaning also. 1. If the meaning be, that as the King by a regal and coactive power may take away all honours, either civil or ecclesiastical, as he giveth all honours, than this way of depriving Ministers cannot be given to the King, for the King may give and take away civil honours, for reasonable causes, according to the Laws. But in ecclesiastical honours there be three things. 1. The appointing of the honour of the office to be an Ambassador of Christ. 2. To give the true foundation and real ground of a Church honour, that is, gifts and gracious abilities for the calling, neither of these two do come either from King or Church, or from mortal men, but only from Jesus Christ, who ascending on high gave gifts unto men, and appointeth both office, and giveth grace for to discharge the office. Yea since moral philosophy maketh honour to be praemium 〈◊〉, a reward of virtue; the King doth not give that which is the soundation of honour civil, for civil virtue is a grace of God but in Church honour there is a third, to wit, a de●●●nation of a qualified man, for the sacred office of the ministry, and an ordination by the imposition of hands used in the Apostolic Church, Act. 6. 6. Act. 13. 3. Act. 14 23. 1 Tim. 4 14. 1 Tim. 5.22 Whether imposition of hands be essential to ordination, or not, I disput not, it is apostolic by practice, yet there is something ecclesiastical, as praying of Pastors, and an ecclesiastical designation of men, or the committing of the Gospel to faithful men, who are able to teach others, 2 Tim. 2. 2. 1 Tim. 5. 22. No Scripture can warrant that the King ordain Pastors by public praving, by laying on of hands, or ecclesiastical blessing, or by such an ordination, as is given to Timothy, and the Elders of the Church, Acts 13. 3. Acts 14. 23. Tit. 1. 5,6. 7,8 9 1 Tim. 4. 14. 1 Tim. 5. 22. 2 Tim. 2. 2. If any say the King hath a public and regal power in ordaining of Ministers, and so in depriving them, or a mixed power, partly regal, partly ecclesiastical, as he is a mixed person, and the Church hath their way of purely and unmixed ecclesiastical calling or ordaining of Ministers, or the Church and the Magistrate both doth elect and choose the man, yet so that he is not elected without the consent of the King or Magistrate in the King's room. I answer, many things are here to be replied. 1. That the King who may be borne an heir to an earthly Kingdom, is also borne and by nature a mixed person, and half a Minister of the Gospel, is against God's word; ministers in whole, or in part, are made so of God, not so borne by nature: in Aaron● Priestha●d men by birth came to a sacred office, but that is done away now in Christ. 2. With as good reason may the King preach and administer the Sacraments, as a mixed person, as he may ordain, by ecclesiastical blessing, imposition of hands, ecclesiastical designation any person to the Ministry, that same auth nity of Christ which said to Timoth, Lay hands suddenly 〈◊〉 man, said also to him, 2 Tim. 2. 15. Study to be approved unto 〈◊〉, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, dividing the word right; that is, both ordaining of Ministers, and pastoral preaching of the Word, or pastoral acts flowing from an ecclesiastical power. How then can the one be given to the King by virtue of that same mixed power? especially seeing baptising it directly called 1 C●r. 1. 17. a less principal work of the ministry then preaching. It it be said, as ordination is performed by the King, is not an ecclesiastical action, but civil, or mixed, partly civil, partly ecclesiastical. I answer: by that reason, if the King should preach and administrate the Sacraments, these actions should not be called ecclesiastical actions, and Uzzah's touching the Ark, should not be called an action by office incumbent to the Levites only; and it might be said, the person being civil, the actions are civil. And Uzziah's burning of incense upon the Altar of incense, was not a Priestly act, but an act of a mixed power, he 2 Ch●on. 26. 10, 17. was partly a King, and partly a Priest, who did perform the action, but he was a Priest by sinful usurpation in that action, as we know. 2. This answer is a begging also of the question. 2. Whereas it is said that the Church ordainech Pastors, and the King also, but divers ways: the one by a regal power, the other by me el●siasticall power. I answer: this is spoken to make the people, ad saciendum populum, for ejusdem potestatis est, (saith the Law) constituere & desti●●ere, it is the same power to ordain and to destroy. The high-Commission by the King's authority doth deprive Ministers, without so much as the knowledge of the Church. If then the King as King may deprive ministers without the notice of the Church, then may the King as King also ordain Pastors without the notice of the Church. For the action of the instruments as such, is more principally the actions of the principal cause. 3 Election of a Pastor is far different from ordination of a Pastor: the whole multitude as Christians have voices in the election of a Pastor, and so hath the King or his Magistrate, as a part and member of the Church, but this giveth no negative voice to the Magistrate in election, but ordination is not done by all the multitude, it is a work of authority done only by the Church-officers. 4. The coactive and civil degradation, must have also correspondent thereunto a coactive and civil ordination of Pastors. Now I ask what is a coactive ordination. If it be the King's royal and civil authority, commanding that the Church officers ordain Pastors at Christ's commandment; This we deny not, they fight with a shadow or a night ghost; not against us, who contend for this. But if they mean a coactive degradation by the Sword, in banishing, imprisoning, yea and for just causes, punishing Ministers to death with the Sword, this indirect deprivation we do not deny. But so the King depriveth a man from being a Minister, when he is beheaded, or hanged, or banished for civil crimes, no other ways, but as he depriveth a man from being a Fashioner, a Sai●●r, a Plougher, a Soldier, or a Father to his own barns, a husband to his own wife, for when the man is beheaded or hanged, by the sword of the Magistrate, he is deprived from being a fashioner, a sailer, a father, a husband: and Solomen did not other way deprive Abiathar from the Priesthood, then indirectly by consigning him for treason at Anathoth, so as he could not exercise the Priest's office at Jerusalem. So after a Junius de ●en●il●animad. l. 1. c. 20. a●t. 10. Junius, b Altar. Damas●●n pag. 23. Calderwood, c Gulied. Apollonius de ju●e Magist●. ●nsa●●●● c. 5. pag. 3. 7. Gul. Apollonius, d Sibrandus c●nt●a. Pag. 148. 149. Sibrandus, yea e Muketus de polit●ia potest. pag. 302 Muketus, a man for the times, denyeth that the Prince can take away that ecclesiastical power that the Church hath given. And so f Nico. ● Wedelius in tractatu de epis●●pain Constan●●ni. acknowledgeth Wedelius the same. That reasonless liar Lysimach Nicanor in this▪ and in other things, hath no reason to say, we borrow Jesuits doctrine to answer this argument, for g Becanus ●n ●pi●s●ul. 10. 2. the 〈◊〉. ●●g. l. 3. 〈◊〉. 5 n 37. 38. the Jesuit Becanus is not unacquainted with Jesuits doctrine against the power of Kings, yet he answereth that Solomen as King had no power over Abiathar for treason, or any other crime, and therefore following Bellarmine and Gretserus saith, that Solomon did this by an extraordinary prophetical instinct, yet h Abulensis q 38. & 31. Abulensis a great textual Papist, and i 〈…〉 ●4 B●naventura a learned Schooleman saith this proveth that the King is above the Priest, and that Priests in the Old Testament were not eximed from the civil Judge's sword and power: this is very doubtsome to k 〈…〉 c. 2● n. 2. Suarez who ●aith, that it was a temp●rall civil punishment of exi●e, and that consition from the exercise of the Priest's office followed upon the other. But we need not this answer, for Solomon's sentence containeth in t●rminis, a mere civil punishment; and these words 1 King. 27. S. Solomon thrust out Abiathar from being Priest to the Lord, seem not to be words of the King's sentence of banishment, but are relative to the fulfilling of the Lords word, and a consequent of divine justice relative to the prophecy against Elies' house. Though verily I see no inconvenience to say that Solomon did indeed deprive him from the Priesthood by an extraordinary instinct of the Spirit, as he was led of God to build the Temple. 1. Because the text saith, so Solomon thrust out Abiathar from being Priest to the Lord, and ver. 35. and Zadok the Priest did the King put in the room of Abiathar, which is a direct deprivation from the Priesthood: but I contend not here. But that the King causatively may deprive, that is, command the Church to cast out heretics, and to commit the Gospel to faithful men, who are able to teach others, 2 Tim. 2. 2. we confess: as for the power of convocating of Synods, some think that the King may convocate Synods as men, but as Church men they have power, if the Magistrate be averse, to convocate themselves, see l Junius 〈◊〉. 4. l. 1. c. 12. a●t. 4. Junius who insinuateth this distinction. But certainly though the Kingly dignity be thought merely civil, yet let this be thought on; it may be thought that the King's power is divine three ways. 1. Effectually, and so we think that the Kingly power is an Ordinance of God lawful, jure divin●; many Papists say the contrary, but we think with God's word, it is of divine institution, as is clear, Psal. 2. 11. Prov. 8. 14. 15. Rom. 13. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6. Matth. 22. 21. 1 P●t. 2. 17, 18. Eccles. 9 20. Prov. 25. 2. Prov. 20. 2. 2 The King's power may be thought divine, formally, and so as divine is opposed to civil, it is a humane ordinance, and not formally divine or ecclesiastical, nor subjectively. 3. It may be thought divine and ecclesiastic, objectively and finaliter. The end intrinsecall being a spiritual good, and so the King hath power to convene Synods not only as they are men, and his Subjects, but also as they be such subjects and Christian men, and members of Synods; as the King may command the minister of the Gospel both as a man, yea and as a Preacher in the Pulpit, to preach ●ound doctrine and to give wholesome and good milk to the Church, and this is formally an act of a nurie-father, such as the King is by his Kingly office: and this way also doth the King send members to the Synod, and moderate, and preside in Synods, actu imp●rato▪ n●n elicito: actu objective ecclesiastico; non intrinsece, non formaliter, non subjective eccles●astico. The King ruleth by the Sword, and commandeth the Synods to meet, ordereth politically and civilly the members and meeting, and as King cooperateth, but by a civil and regal influence, with the Synod, for the same very end that the Synod intendeth, to wit, the establishing of truth, unity, and the edification of Christsbody. But this power of the Kings to convene Synods, is positive, not negative, auxiliary and by addition, not by way of impedition or privation. For the Church of herself, hath from Christ her head and Lord, power of conveening without the King, beside his knowledge or against his will, if he be averse, as is clear Matth. 18. 17, 18. if they be convened in his name he is with them; not upon condition that the Prince give them power. And Joh. 20. 19 there is a Church-meeting without the Rulers, and a Church-meeting for praying, preaching, and discipline, Act. 1. 13, 14. etc. without the Magistrate, & Act. 15. 1, 2. and when the Magistrate is an enemy to the Church. 2. Where Christ commandeth his disciples to preach and baptise, Matth. 28. 19, 20. and with all faith in the exercise of their ministry, they shall be persecuted by rulers, as Matth. 10. 17, 18, 19 Luk. 21. 12, 13, 14. He doth by necessary consequence command Church-meetings, and Synods, even when the Magistrate forbiddeth, and this is practised, 1 Cor. 5. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5. where the Magistrate is an heathen, chap. 6. 1, 2, 3. 3. It should follow that Christ cannot have a true visible Church, and ministry on earth, except the Magistrate countenance his Church, which is both against experience, and Christ's Kingly power, who reigneth in the midst of his enemies, Psal. 110. 2. And what glorious Cour●bes had Christ in Asia, with power of doctrine and discipline, and ●o with all Church-meetings, Rev. 2. chap. 3. where Tyrants did slay the witnesses of Christ, Rev. 2. 13. and certainly by what power Kings allege that Synods may not meet, for the exercise of discipline and good order in God's house, by that same power they may say there should be no Church meeting for the hearing of the word and receiving the Sacraments, without their authority. For Church Synods for doctrine differ not, in spece, and nature, from Synods for discipline, all be one and the same acts under Christ as King and head of his Church, for which see m Spalleto de repub eccles l. 5 c. 5 ●. 88▪ 8. Spalleto, n U●●tius. tract. de potest. ●●cles U●●tius, o Am●sius 〈…〉. de council. c. 1. ad. 1. Am●sius, p Calderwood 〈…〉. pag. 14, 15. etc. Calderwood, q Professor. Leydens'. 〈◊〉. 49. 〈◊〉. 6. the Professors ●● L●yden. Now what any say on the contrary, for the power of Princes in matters ecclesiastical, is soon answered, r Gerardus de Magistr. polit. to. 6. n. 171. pag. 5 ●●. Gerardus saith that Moses gave Laws both to the People and Priests, Exod. 20. Leu. 8. Num. 3. I answer, if this be a good argument, the Magistrate his alone without advice of the Church may impose Laws, yea and institute new Laws, and dite Canonical Scripture also, as did Moses, Deut. 5. Exod. 20. but it is certain that Moses gave these Laws, not as a Magistrate, but as a Prophet of God, who spoke with God face to face, and it is more for us, then for our adversaries. David also brought the Ark to its place, at God's special direction, the Levites carrying it by God's Law, though they failed in that sinful omission, 2 Sam. 6. but 1 David did convocate the chosen of Israel, even thirty thousand, to reduce the Ark to its place, and so the Levites and Churchmen, and did it not as King his alone, as 1 Chron. 13. he did it. And s Junius 1 Chron. 13. 1. Junius saith (and the text is clear) that he did it by the counsel of an Assembly and the whole Church, and that a King may do that in God's worship, in case of the negligence of the Church, that is warranted by God's word, is but his duty. Now Jesuits answer not to any purpose in this, for t Becanus in 〈◊〉. de 〈◊〉 5. n 30 〈…〉. Becanus, and u Suarez 〈…〉. 25. n. 12. Suarez answer nothing to David's placing of the Ark in its place, only they say all the people conveved the Ark and danced before it, as well as David, but it is not hence proved, that all the people are heads of the Church, as they say the King is: and Lysimachus the Jesuit seeth in this that we a●●ee not with his friends the Jesuits. Solomon builded the Temple, and dedicated it to God's service, but this is no ground to make the King a Lawgiver in the Church. 1. Because none can deny but Solomon did all this, as a Prophet, by special revelation: for 1. if Solomon might not build an house to the Lord, but by special revelation, that he should be the man, and not David his father, 2 Sam. 7. 6. 13. far more could he not as an ordinary King, build that typical house, which had a resemblance of Christ, and heaven itself, especially seeing the signification of the Holy of holiest in the Sanctuary is expressly given to the holy Spirit, Heb. 9 7, 8. and the Temple was a type of Christ, Joh. 2. 20, 21. and they may say Kings by an ordinary power as Kings might pen Canonic Scripture, as well as they could build a typical Temple like solomon's. God filled that Temple with his glory, and heard prayers made in that temple and toward that Temple. I think Kings as Kings cannot now build such Temples; therefore Solomon by a Prophetical instinct built that house. Jesuits give no answer to this, for u Suarez opused. 3. 〈…〉. 25 n. 1●. Suarez saith Kings may build Churches to God; because of itself it is an act of Religion which requireth riches for the building thereof, and for the dedication it includeth two, 1. By some religious action to consecrate a house to God; and this way only the Priests by sacrificing dedicated the Temple, and God by filling of it with his presence, dedicated it to himself. 2. It includeth an offering and giving of an house to God's service. I answer: by this Solomon as a private man builded the Temple, and dedicated it to God, and not as either King or Prophet; but this is a vain answer, for no private man could have builded an house to God, with such typical relations to Christ, and to the Church of the New Testament, except he had been immediately inspired by the holy Ghost. x Becanus de prima●● reg●o l. 3. ob. 4. pa. 73. Becanus saith three sorts of men were actors here, 1. Solomon, 2. The Priests, 3. The people: Solomon prayed and gave thanks, the Priest's ●arried the Ark, the Tabernacle, the holy vessels, and sacriji ●s, the 〈…〉 present, rejoiced and gave thankss to God: there is nothing 〈…〉 Solomon's headship; Solomon dedicated a Temple to God, what, it will no more follow, he was the head of the Church for that, 〈…〉 offered stones and timber to God, than the wom●n can ●ee 〈◊〉 of the Church, who offered to God g●●d, purple, 〈…〉 budd●● Temple to God, many Merchant's ●ubild Temple● upon their 〈…〉 God, and pray to God to accept these Temples; 〈◊〉 in England 〈◊〉 Temples to God, they are not for that head of the Church. Answ. 1. This is another Temple than Temples builded daily; 1. Because it was will-worship for David to build this Temple, and service to God for Solomon a King of peace, and a type of our King of wisdom Christ, to build this Temple and for no other; any Merchant may build a common house to God's service, without a special word of promise, which word Solomon behoved to have, or then he could not build this house. 1. To dedicate an house to God typical of Christ; 2. Filled with the cloud of God's presence, where God said, he would dwell in this house; 3. With such ornaments as the Holy of holiest in it; 4. In which God said he would hear prayers; whereas now in all places he heareth prayers, Joh. 4. 21. 1 Timoth● 2. 8. this is another positive worship then that a merchant build a house for God's daily service, which hath no relative holiness in it, but only is holy in the use, and to dedicate a house in these terms is more than an ordinary dedication to God's service, and their Prelates in England, who dedicated Temples to God, cannot answer this reply of the Jesuits, nor can the new Jesuit Lysimachus Nican●r their brother answer the Jesuit herein; we say from warrant of God's Word, that Solomon did all this, by a prophetical instinct, by the which also he prophesied, and did write the book of the Proverbs, Ecclesiastes, and Solomon's Song; else Jesuits may say that these books do no more prove Solomon to be a Prophet, than the tomes written by Becanus and Suarez, doth prove that they were divinely inspired Prophets. Obj. David also prepared materials for the Temple, 1 Chron. 22. 2. and dicided the Levites in certain ranks and orders, 1 Chron. 23. 4. Answ. 2 Chron. 8. 13. for so had David the man of God commanded, the man of God is the Prophet of God, not the King of Israel as King, 2 Chron. 29. 25. and he set the Levites in the house of God with Cymba's and psalteries and ●arpes according to the commandment of David, and of Gad the King's Seer, and N●uh●n the Prophet, for so was the commandment of the Lord by his Prophets; they may prove then God the Prophet is the head of the Church, and hath power to make Church-Lawes. But it is a great mistake. H●●●●iah, David, Solomon, commanded the people and the levites to do their duties according to God's Word. Ergo, Kings may make Church-constitutions by a mixed power, it followeth in no so●●; we deny not but the King may command in God's worship, what is already of clear and evident divine institution, but that he may obtrude it, as a thing to be observed, by all Church men, and urge it, as a constitution come from authority, to b●e observed under the pain of ecclesiastical censures, we deny: now this formalists teach, that he may command in the external government, as a Church constitution to be in his royal name executed, by Church men with Church censures, though the Church never heard of it before. It is true that Jehoshaph ●t, 2 Chron. 19 8, 9, 10, 11. set of the Levites and Priests, and the chief of the fathers of Israel, for the judgement of the Lord, and for controversies— and charged them, to do in the fear of the Lord, v. 11. and behold Amariah the chie●e Priest (saith he) is over you in all the matters of the Lord▪ and Zebadiah the son of Ishmael, the ruler of the house of Judah, for all the King's matters; also the Levites shall be officers before you; deal c●●ra●iously, and the Lord shall be with the good. Hence doth T●oker and other court parasites infer, 1. That the King constituting Levites, and Priests in a City, must be head of the Church, and 2. That Jehoshaph at having constitute two Vicars and Deputies under him, one in Church matters, to wit, Amariah, another in civil matters, to wit, Zebadiah, therefore hath the King a jurisdiction and headship in both Church and State. Answer 1. The institution of Priests is one thing, and the calling of the persons to the Office another▪ the former was Gods due, who himself choosed the tribe of Levi, and this the King did not. But it is another thing to constitute Priests and Levites, who were instituted and called of God, to serve in such a place at Jerusalem, rather than in any other place; this is but to apply a person, who is jure divine, by God's right in office, to such places and times. This is not a point of Ecclesiastical jurisdiction, for placing and timing Preachers belongeth to the people calling them, and in the time of Apostasy, as this was, Jehoshaphat sent Levites to teach, and commanded them to do their duty; but that the High Priest is the King's Deputy or Vicar, as if the King offered sacrifices to God, as the principal and Church head, or by the Ministry and service of Amariah, as his instrument, deputy and servant, is most idly, and untruly spoken. Yet will I not use the argument of Be●anus the Jesuit, who saith, If Amariah was the King's Vicar, then may the King by himself sacrifice, for what ever the Vicar o● deputy may d●e, that may the person above him, who giveth him power, d●e without the Vicar. The King's royal commandment is formally terminated upon the quality and manner of Ecclesiastical acts, that they be done according to God's Law, rather than upon the acts according to their substance. It * Note. is one thing for Ministers to Preach sound Doctrine, and administrate the Sacraments in obedience, and at the King's commandment, which we acknowledge a truth, and another thing for Ministers to Preach in the name and authority of royal Majesty, as having a calling from him: this latter is false: as the King may do an act of justice, at the direction of a Minister, commanding him in God's name to execute judgement impartially: yet the King doth not an act of justice in the name and authority of the Church. And that is true which Be●anus saith, What the instrument doth, the principal cause may do, where the Vicar or Deputy, and the principal substitut●r of the Vicar are both civil persons, or are both Ecclesiastical persons, for in a large and unproper sense, the nurse is a sort of deputy under the nurse father, the Father may take care that the nurse give milk, and wholesome milk to his child, yet cannot the Father give milk himself. The King may take care, actu imperato, as one intending, in a Kingly way, that Christ's body be edified, that the Priests and Prophets feed with knowledge, the Church and sister of Christ, and so are the Priests under the King, and at his command to feed, and to feed with wholesome food the flock, and in obedience to the King all are to do their duty, and his care is universal over all, and his end universal. That which is the end of Pastors, Doctors, Elders, Deacons, Lawyers, Judges, etc. is, in an universal intention, the King's end, even God's honour, by procuring in a regal way, that all do their duty in keeping the two Tables of the Law, and so is he the great politic wheel moving by his royal motions, all the under wheels toward that same end: yet cannot the King without sin, and being like a Bird wand'ring from her nest, do that which is properly Pastoral, so that the Office is not subordinate to him, but immediately from God, yet are the operations of the Office, and to Preach tali modo, diligently sound Doctrine subordinate to him, but in a general and universal way, as he is a kingly mover of all, to keep the two Tables of the Law. Neither did the King (as a Suarez l. 3. de prima. Pontif. c. 25 n. 7. Suarez saith) one and the same way appoint both the High Priest and the civil Judge. And b Cajetan comment. 2. paic. 19 v. 11. supren●a duo capita judicio●um decernit. Cajetan saith, he decerneth the two chief heads of Church and Commonwealth, but he appointed not both, for God appointed Amariah, to be High Priest, and not the King, but here is nothing to prove the King's headship. Asa reform the Church and renewed the Covenant; Ezekia● reform Religion also, and broke in pieces the Brazen Serpent, and all these in the case of universal apostasy, and the corruption of the Priesthood did reform the Lord's house, break in pieces graven Images, but all this giveth to them no mixed Ecclesiastical power of making Canons, of ordaining and depriving Pastors. Whereas some object, That the care both of temporal good, and spiritual good, belongeth to the Magistrate, therefore, he must have a power to make Church Laws. See c Paraeus comment. ad Ro●. 13. dub. 5. Pareus. For his care cannot be supreme, if he must rule at the nod and beck of Churchmen. I Answer, the connexion is weak: he who hath the care of both the temporal and spiritual good of the people, he hath a nomothetick power to procure both these two goods, it followeth no way, for than might he have a power in his own person to Preach, and administrate the Sacraments, this power procureth the spiritual good, but such as is the care, such is the power, the care is politic and civil, Ergo, the power to procure the spiritual good, must be politic and civil. 2. Neither is the King to do all at the nod and direction of the Priesthood, blindly and without examination. That is the blind doctrine of Papists, we hold that he hath a regal power to examine, if the Decrees of the Church be just, Orthodox, and tend to edification, For he is the Minister of God, for good, and to take vengeance on evil doing. And there is no just obligation to sin, he is not obliged to punish with the sword, well-doing, but evil doing, and the Church can oblige the Magistrate to do nothing, but that which in case there were no Church Law, and in case of the Churches erring, he should do. 2. They object, He to whom every soul is subject, he hath a power to make Church Laws, about all good: but all and every soul, without exception of Apostles, or Churchmen, is subject to the civil Magistrate. Ergo. The proposition is proved from the Law of relatives, for he to 〈◊〉 we are subject, he may give Laws unto us, for our g●●d. See d Paraeus loc. citat. Pareus. Answ. He to whom we are subject, may give any Laws, or command any manner of way, for our good. I deny the proposition in that sense; for than he might in the Pulpit preach the Commandments of God, for our good. He might give Laws under the pain of excommunication. It is enough that he may give Laws by sanction and civil enacting of Church Laws, and pressing us by the power of the Sword, to do our duty, for the attaining of a spiritual good. He to whom we are subject, he may give Laws, that is press, in a coactive way, obedience to Laws, that is most true, but it proveth not a nomothetick power in the King. 3. They object, What ever agreeth to the Kingly power concerning the good of Subjects, by the Law of Nations, that doth far more agreeth Kings by the Law of God. For the Law of God doth not desir 〈…〉 ●e Law of Nations. But by the law of Nations, a care 〈◊〉 Religion belong th' to the King, for Religion by the Law of nature is ind●●ed and brought in by the Law of Nations. As e Cicero ● Tus●ul. nulla tam fera. tam 〈◊〉 nis unq●am natio fu●, quam non unbue●it religio ●●r●n. Cicero saith. And therefore to a Christian Kingly power, the care of Religion must be due. Answer: we grant all, for a care in a civil and politic way belongeth to the Christian Prince, but a care by any mean whatsoever, by Preaching, or by making Church Canons, is not hence proved by no light of nature, or Law of Nations, in an ecclesiastical care of Religion due to the Christian Prince, but only in a politic and civil way. 4. All believers, even private men, may judge of Religion, not only by a judgement of apprehension, but also of discretion, to try what Object. Religion is true, and to be holden, and what is false, and to be rejected. Ergo, far more may the Christian Magistrate definitively judge of Religion, so he do it by convenient means, such as are sound and holy Divines, and the rule of God's word. The consequence is proved, because the faithful Prince hath supreme power, which is n●mothetick, and a power to make Laws. Answer: it is true, all private believers may try the Spirits, whether they be of God or not: but hence we may as well conclude, therefore Princes may preach and administer the Sacraments, as therefore the Prince may define matters ecclesiastical. For a evil coactive power giveth to no man an ecclesiastical power, except he be called thereunto, as Aaron was. 2. The means alleged are the judgement of holy and pious Divines, and the word of God, but Moses whom they allege for a pattern of a civil ruler, who had a nomothetick power in Church matters, used not the advice of Divines, nor the rule of the written word, but as a Prophet immediately inspired of God, gave Laws to God's people, and prescribed a Law to Aaren, and to the Priesthood. Now if rulers have such a power of defining Laws, they need not follow the rule of God's word. But how shall they prove that Moses gave the Law to the people and the Priesthood, as a King, and not as the Prophet of God, inspired immediately of God? For if Moses his Law came from the ordinary power of Kings, as it is such, then cometh Moses Law from a Spirit which may err, for the ordinary Spirit to Kings, is not infallible, but with reverence to Kings, obnoxious to erring. God save our King. 5. It is a Prince's part by office to defend Religion, and to banish false Religion, and to root out blasphemies and heresies. Ergo, he ought Object. to know and judge by his office of all these. But if he be to use the sword at the nod only of the Church, without knowledge or judgement, he is the executioner and lictor of the Church, not a civil Judge. Answ. In a Church right constitute, we are to suppone, that the Laws of Synods are necessary and edificative, and that the Magistrate is obliged by his office to add his sanction to them not by an unfolded faith, and as blind; but he is to try them, not only by the judgement of discretion, as a Christian, (for so all Christians are to try them) but also (saving the judgement of some Learned) by a judicial cognition, as he trieth civil crimes, which he is to punish: but his judicial cognition is only in relation to his practice, as a Judge, to authorise these Laws, with his coactive power, not to determine truth in an ecclesiastical way, under the pain of Church censures. Neither do I believe, that the Magistrate is not subordinate to the Kingdom of Christ, as mediator, but subordinate to God as Creator only. Though some Divines teach, that there should have been Kings and supreme Powers in the world, though man had never fallen in sin, and a Saviour had never been in the World, and so that Kings are warranted by the Law of nature, and Nations, and not by any Law evangelic and mediatory: yet we think with reverence, this argument not strong, for generation and creation and multiplication of mankind should have been in the World, though never a sinner nor a Saviour thould have been in the world, yet are creation, generation and multiplication of mankind, by our divines, Junius, Trekatius, Gomaras, Calvin, Beza, Melancthon, Polanus, Rollocus, and many others, and with warrant of the word of God, made means subordinate to the execution of the decree of predestination to Glory, which decree is executed in Christ, as the mean and meritorious cause of salvation purchased in his blood. What heathen Magistrates as Magistrates know not Christ the Mediator; Ergo, they are not means subordinate to Christ's Mediatory Kingdom. It followeth not. For by Christ the wisdom of God, Kings do reign, though many of them know him not. As they are created by Christ, as the second person of the Trinity, though they know not the second person of the Trinity. It is their sin that they know him not. 2. It is objected. The Magistrate is not given to the Church under the New Testament, by the calling of Christ, as an exalted Saviour, as all the gifts instituted for the government of the mediatory Kingdom are instituted for that end, Ephes. 4. 11. but it is instituted by God, as governor of the World, rewarding good and ill, Rom. 13. 1. 6. Answ. Neither is creation a gift of Christ as exalted mediator, therefore it is not a mean leading to the possession of that life purchased by the mediators blood, it followeth not. For the Magistracy is a nursefather of the redeemed spouse of Christ with the sincere milk of the word. I mean a formal mean procuring, by a coactive power, that the Church shall be fed, and it procureth not only the Church's peace, which respecteth the second Table of the Law, but also godliness, which respecteth the first Table of the Law, 1 Tim. 2. 2. and Ephes. 4. 11. there be reckoned down only officers, which actibus elicitis, by formal elicit acts, procureth the intended end of Christ's mediatory Kingdom. Not all the offices which procureth edification any way. Such as is in civil Governors, who are to see that the body of Christ be nourished, and grow in godliness, for that is an essential and specific act of the Church's nurs-father. 3. It is objected. Magistracy compelleth men to the observance of God's Law, Deut. 17. and doth not immediately, of itself, by spiritual gifts of the evangell, produce its effects. But all the mediatory Kingdom of Christ and the Government thereof, of its self and its own nature, produceth the saving effects of the evangel●, by virtue of its institution, as faith, repentance, and salvation. Answ. A Magistracy as a Magistracy, of itself concurreth, but in a coactive way, for producing of peace, honesty, and godliness, and serveth to edification: but I grant, not in such a spiritual way, as a Church-ministry, therefore it is not a mean subservient to the end of Christ's mediatory Kingdom. It followeth not. It is not a spiritual means. Ergo, it is not a mean. The consequence is null, and it is false, that all the means of Christ's mediatory Kingdom are of their own nature spiritual, for that is to beg the question, for the Magistrate procureth that the Church be fed, he punisheth blasphemers, that others may fear, and so abstain, and so be edified, though the way be coactive, yet is it a way and mean appointed of God, as the nursefather is a mean for the child's nourishing, though the nurse-breasts be a more subordinate means, immediate means. 4. It is objected. The Magistrate is not the Lords Ambassador and minister in name of the Mediator Christ, as the Minister is, but it is extron ●call to the government of Christ's Mediatory Kingdom, and 〈◊〉 help only to those things, which concern the external man. Answ. He who is called God, and so is the vicegerent of God, is God's Ambassador politic commanding in God's name, but in another way then a preaching Ambassador commandeth: and though Christ as Mediator, may attain to his end without the King, as many were edified in the Apostolic Church where the civil Magistrate contributed no help, and was rather an enemy to the kingdom of Christ, and so Magistracy may be called accidental to Christ's mediatory government: but if this be a good argument to prove that Magistracy is not subordinate to Christ's mediatory kingdom, then Ecumenical and provincial Synods consisting only of Church men shall be no means subordinate to Christ's kingdom, because Christ's kingdom may subsist in one Congregation, without a provincial assembly, and circumcision is no mean subordinate to that kingdom in the Jewish Church, because that mediatory kingdom substisted forty years in the Jewish Church in the Wilderness without circumcision; yea and Apostles and Evangelists are no means subordinate to that kingdom, because Christ's mediatory kingdom subsisteth now without these officers. 2. Neither is it true that magistracy conferreth no help to this kingdom, but in these things which concern the external man, for in a politic and coactive way, the Magistracy taketh care by commandments, that the Church be fed with the pure Word of God; only this proveth that magistracy, and Church ministry have two different objects, and the way of proceeding of these two states, the one carnal and with the sword, Joh. 18. 36. Rom. 13. 3, 4. the other spiritual, to the manifestarion of the truth to the conscience, 2 Cor. 4. 1, 2. Psal. 110. 1. 2. Es●y 11. 4. Heb. 4. 12. which we grant to be true. 5. It is objected, Christ himself performed all the parts of his mediatory kingdom, and all the functions thereof, in his own person, and by his disciples, while he was on earth; but he refused all civil Magistracy, and did inhibit his disciples thereof, because it is not contained under the administration of his mediatory office, as subordinate thereunto. Answ. Christ refused magistracy, not because it is not subordinate to edification, which is the end of Christ's mediatory kingdom, but because it is not compatible with his spiritual kingdom, in one and the same person, and therefore this is a caption, à non causa pro causa, in one and the same person and subject; the civil and the Ecclesiastical power are inconsistent and incompatible, that is true. Ergo, in the kind of lawful means these two powers are unconsistent and uncompatible. I deny it to follow, for both royal power and Church power concur for the producing of one and the same end, to wit, edification and obedience to both Tables of the Law, but after different ways, carnal and spiritual. * Note. I think it most considerable that though the Prince may by a coactive way, command that same which a Church Synod may command in an ecclesiastical way, yet differeth these same powers in their formal objects, because the King commandeth that which is good, religious, decent in God's worship as a thing already taught and determined judicially, either expressly in God's Word, or then by a pastoral or Synodical determination, and that not by way of teaching, informing the mind, exponing the Scripture, or by pastoral dealing with the conscience, as obliging to a Church Liturgy, and ceremonies, as one who intendeth formal edification and faith, repentance, and obedience to God; but the King commands that which is good and extra, as it is already taught, and expounded, and as it is an imperated act of external worship, or mercy and justice done by a coactive power. Hence the Magistrates power is not to edify formally, but to procure that edification may be. 2. The Magistrate's power is Lordly, the Church's power is only ministerial. 3. The Magistrate's power may be in one, to wit, in the King, the Church's power of the keys is in the Church. 4. They differ in formal objects, as hath been said. Now to obviate what the Jesuit Lysimachus Nicanor saith, we are no ways of Papists mind in the matter of the Magistrates power, for Papists, 1. exclude Kings and Emperors from any meddling with Church matters. Charles the fifth was upbraided by Paul the third, the Pope of Rome, because he did, as became a Prince, ordain meetings, conferences, and assemblies for composing of differences in Churches matters, not giving the power of convening counsels, only to the Pope, a Later ● Pauli 3. ad Carol. 5. imperatorem. apud Wolsium tom. ●. Lect. memor. pag. 5●9. comparing his fact to the attempt of Uzzah, who put his hand to the Ark, and to Corah, Dathan and abiram's conspiracy against Moses; yea and b Nicol. 1 in Epist. ad Mi●ha. Impera. C. ul● na●n didst 96. Nicolaus the first in his Epistle to Michael the Emperor, denyeth that Emperors are to be present in Synods, except in general Synods, where both Church men and laics are present: we teach that the Magistrate is as the hand, the ministry as the eyes, and both are to concur for the spiritual good of the body of Christ. 2. Papists will have the Magistrates so to defend the faith, as they have not power to judge, not as Christians with the judgement of discretion what is right, or wrong, but they must, as blind servants, execute what Prelates decree, yea and see (non pr●priis (saith c Henric. Blyssemius tract. de Eccles p. 37. Henr. Blyssemius) sed alienis Episcoporum ac p●aelatorum suorum oculis videre) not with their own eyes, but with the eyes of their Prelates, yea and the Magistrate should not read the Scripture, (say Papists and Nican●rs brethren the Jesuits) expressly contrary to God's Word, Deut. 17. 17. He shall read in the book of the Law, all the days of his life, Joshua 1. 8. but only believe as the Church believeth, and this is blind obedience that they require of Princes; this faith or obedience we think abominable in all men, as in Princes. Of old, Popes and Prelates were subject to Kings and Emperors, as we teach from the Word of God, Rom. 13. 1. and 1. we teach against the Jesuit Lysimachus Nicanor, that his Prelates should not invade the King and civil Magistrates sword, and be civil Judges, as Popes and Prelates are; against which writeth a Tertullian de idol. c. 8. Christus gloriam seculi & sibi & sais alienam esse judicavit. Tertullian, b Origen homil. 12. in Matth. Origen, c Hilarius ad Auxe●t. Hilarius d Chrysostom. hom. 42. in Joan. Christus fugit (diadema ●errenum) ut oftenderes suum regnum nullis secularibus rebus indigere. chrysostom, e Ambrose 2. ●om. 2. 4. in Dei rebus sollicitus (sit Episc●pus) a secul●i negotio alienus, non enim convenitunum, duplicem habere potestatem. Ambrose, f August. trin. Cos. in Joan. Augustinus; The g Survey of discipline, cap. 23. pag. 280, 281. author of the Survey saith, that if every Eldership be the tribunal seat of Christ, what appellation can be made there from to either provincial or general council? and he meaneth, that there can be no appellation to the King, seeing the Presbytery in Churches causes is as immediately subject to Jesus Christ, and the highest Judicature on earth, as the King is God's immediate vicegerent on earth, nearest to Jesus Christ, in civil causes. I answer: the cause that is merely ecclesiastical, as the formal act of preaching and ecclesiastical determining of truth in Pulpits, and the determining the truth in Church assemblies, in an ecclesiastical way in Synods, and the excommunicating of a scandalous person, are immediately subject to Jesus Christ, speaking in his own perfect Testament: and these causes lie not at the feet of Princes to be determined by them, as Kings, but in a constitute Church they are to be determined by the ordinary Church assemblies, and in this place there is no appeal from the Presbytery to a King; but it followeth not, that there can be no appellation from a Presbytery to a provincial, or to a national assembly; 1. Because though every Presbytery be the tribunal seat of Christ, yet it is but a part of the tribunal seat of Christ, and such a part as may easily err, and therefore appellation may be made from the weaker, and the part more inclined to err, to the stronger and maniest, or the whole, who may more hardlier err: and that is not denied by this author, who dare not deny, but they may appeal from a Bishop who doth, and may mislead souls, and empty purses, to a Metropolitan, and an Archbishop, who is as dexterous and happy in emptying of poor men's purses, and destroying souls, if not large better, as a petty Lord Prelate, from whom he appealed; yet is the one Lord Prelate the Vicar of Christ, as well as the other, by formalists books. And, 2. If the cause be proper to the Presbytery, they have just right to judge it, as well as the provincial assembly hath, but possibly not such knowledge, and if the party complain that he is wronged, or may be wronged, he may well appeal to a larger part of Christ's tribunal, less obnoxious to erring, which is no wrong done to the Presbytery. This man laboureth to make a division amongst our Divines, because we know not whether to make our Pastors, Doctors, and Elders immediate 〈…〉 to Christ, as Priests, because than they are Priests of the New Testament, or subject to Christ, as King, and then all our officers shall 〈◊〉 Kings, under Christ, and the Christian Magistrate shall be so thrust out of his kingdom and chair. And the ignorant railer maketh much ado in this matter, but the truth is stronger than this Popish scribbler; for 1. as Christ is a Priest having a body to offer for the sins of the people, and a real Sacrifice, our Divines deny that Christ hath any substitute and demie Priests under him, or master Priests to offer sacrifices real to God: if this Author put any Priests under Christ in this meaning, he is upon an unbloody Masse-sacrifice, much good do it him; if h Fenner 〈◊〉. pa 〈◊〉 Fenner make this prophetical office of Christ a part of Christ's Priesthood, because the Priest was to teach the people, Matth. 2. 7. Host 4. 6. and i 〈…〉. pag. 219. Abraham Henrick say the same, there is no absurd to make the officers of the New Testament subordinate to Christ, as to our high Priest teaching us Gods will, not to Christ as our high Priest offering a bloody or a real sacrifice to God, & this Author maketh much ado to cite k 〈…〉 2. p. 4 〈◊〉. Cartwright, l 〈…〉 4. pa. 11● Fenner, m ●Span. 18. v. 36. Bez●●, n Sonnius ap. t●n. 1. pag. 399 and Sonnius, men whose books he is not worthy to bear, making the officers of Christ's kingdom subordinate to Christ as King, for as much as Christ as King prescribed the form of ecclesiastical government, and then saith the poor man o Survey of discipl cap. ●3. pag. 280. the Pastors under Christ ●● King must be all Emperors, the Doctor's Kings, the Elders Dukes, the Deacons Lords of the treasury, etc. and if they be Christ's immediate vicegerents, within their own Kingdoms, who shall control any of them, on whithot shall an injured man appeal? Answ. 1. We Emanuel Sa. in 〈◊〉 Cle●●cus spoke like a J●suite, the rebellion of a Clerg● man, against a King, is no ●●eason because he is no subject▪ The Jesuits vow out of Julius the third his Bull, qua con 〈…〉 Jesu●tarum, c. 21. l. 3. de vita ●gnat. Laiolae. All people are subject to the Pope: we 〈◊〉 beside the community of the three ordinary vows be bound by a more specialty to w●●●soever the present Pope and all others hereafter shall command, etc. and that is as Mr. All●n principal of the College of Jesui●● at Rheimes i● a solemn oration, It is 〈…〉 kill Kings. are to bless God that these Officers, Pastors, Doctors, Elders & Deacons are expressly in the Word of God, and that this railers officers, to wit, Bishops, Archbishops, Metropolitans, Primats, Deans, Archdeanes, officials, etc. are in no place of Christ's testament, only they are in the Pope's Mass book: now if the man offend, because they are subordinate to Christ as King, he must make his Primates, his Metropolitans, his Diocesan Lords, his Deans, Officials, and such wild Officers, Emperors, Kings, Dukes and Lord Treasurers under Christ, for some room these creatures must have, else they must be put out at the Church doors, and if a man be injured by the Primate, to whom shall he appeal, but to some above him, a Cardinal? and if that creature be a Christ, who cannot do wrong, well and good it is, we rest, but if he be a man like the rest of the world, surely poor folk must appeal to his high holiness the Pope. 2. Deacons are not men of ecclesiastic authority in our account, but are to serve tables, Acts 6. 3. nor are our officers little Kings under Christ, (for the man cannot hold of the sent of a Lord Bishop) but mere ministers and servants, and the Ambassadors of the King of Kings, who have no power to make laws, as if they were little Kings, but are to propound Christ's laws; he is ignorant of Christ's kingdom, for the officers of the New Testament are under Christ as their King; Ergo, they are under him as little deputy Kings to make Laws, as Judges earthly are under those whose kingdom is of this world, Joh. 18. 36. the man is both beside his book, and his wit, to infer this; Christ hath no Popes nor visible substitute Kings under him, but under him are mere servants and heralds. 4. We are far from holding, that one Church man such as the Pope may excommunicate Kings; Gregorius the second excommunicated the Emperor Leo, and Gregorius the seventh, alias wicked Hildebrand, excommunicated Henry the fourth; Christ hath committed the power of excommunication to the whole Church, 1 Cor. 5. 4. Matth. 18. 17, 18. and therefore Lysimachus Nicanor cannot but side with Papists in laying this power upon one Prelate, as the King's substitute, or rather the Pope's Vicar. 5. We do not teach that the Pope or any Church man may dethrone Kings, and alienate their crowns to others. Gregory the first in a certain decree saith, Kings and Judges, who contr●veneth the constitution of the Sea of Rome, are to be deprived of her honour; Gregory the second having excommunicated the Emperor Leo, discharged the Italians to pay him tribute, and that because Leo was against the worshipping of Images; See p Haiminsfieldius 〈…〉 Haiminsfieldius, and q Arniseus de 〈…〉. Arniseus, and r Baleus in 〈◊〉 pag. 82 Baleus saith the Pope drew the subjects of this Leo Isaurus, in apertam rebellionem, to 〈◊〉 rebellion, and so the Emperors of the east were deprived of the kingdom of Italy, per sanctissimum diabolum, by a most holy devil: Pope Zachariah, (not the Prophet) deprived Childericus King of France of his kingdom, and procured that Pipinus the father of Charles the great, should be created King, so saith s Baleus, 16. Baleus also. Let the third transferred the Empire from the Grecians to the Romans, and by the hand of Pope Leo (saith Sigebertus) Charles was crowned; See for this t 〈◊〉 Shardius in 〈…〉. Go●stad par. 4. pag. 296. Shardius. Gregorius the fifth being the brother german of Otbo the Emperor, made a Law that the Emperor should be chosen by seven Prince's electors, which fact weakened the majesty of the Empire, which went before by inheritance, hence An. 1350. Charles the fourth, that his son might succeed him in the Empire, laid in pledge the free Cities of the Empire, in the hands of the Prince electors, which to this day are not redeemed. So did the Pope shake the Empire, at his own will. Gregory the third began, and Leo the third finished the devise of erecting a new Empire in the West, and weakened the power of the Emperor of Constantinople. Gregorius the seventh, alias graceless Hildebrand, deprived Henry the fourth, and created another in his place, as u Sleidan period. 5. c 8. Sleidan and x Lampadius part. 3 pag. 203. Lampadius relateth. Innocentius the third dethroned Otho the fourth: and Innocentius the fourth dethroned Frederick the second, and the like did Clemens the sixth to Lodovick the fourth, by Bellarmine's own confession. No Emperors can be created but by their consent, saith the y Catalogus test●um v●●ita. 'tis lib. 15 seculo 12. pag. 1544, 1545. Author of that learned work, Catalogue. testium veritatis. They lose the subjects from the oath of fidelity. Lodovick the fourth answering the calumnies of John the 22. z Apologia L●dov. 4. contra calumnias Joan. papae 22. saith it is against all Law that the Emperor hath no imperial authority and power, except he be anointed, consecrated and crowned by the Pope; he citeth their own a In decret. 96. dist. c. cum ad verum & canone duo sunt. Law on the contrary. That Joannes the 22. (saith the Emperor) insinuateth in his Bull, that he is universal Lord in both temporal and spiritual matters. Bonifacius the eighth setteth out a Bull against Philip the Fair, Philippus Pulcher King of France (as saith b Stephanus Aufrerii. Stephanus Aufrerii) and speaketh thus, that he is universal Lord of the earth in both temparall and spiritual things Bonifacius Episcopus servus ser●orum dei, Philippo Fr●n 〈◊〉 regi, deum time & mandata ejus serva, seire te volumus quod in spritualibus & temporalibus nobis su●es, benificiarum & pre●end●●● ad te c●●●io nuda spectet, etc. Believe if ye will, that Constan●●●● gave to the Popes of Rome freedom and immunity from the imperial Laws, and that he gave to the Pope the territories of Rome, and the City of Rome the Seat of the Empire to be Peter the fisher's patrimony, and this (say they) Constantine gave to Silvester, which is the Patrimony of the Crown, and the very Empire itself given to Peter, we teach no such Kingly power given to Churchmen, and judge this donation to be a forged lie, invented by Papists, because they are their own witnesses of this donation. For c Hieronymus Pa●●us in 〈◊〉 qui 〈…〉 pract●●●●●●c●llariae Ap 〈◊〉. Hieronymus Pa●●●us Cath●lanus, a Lawyer, and Chamberlain to Pope Alexand●r the sixth, saith exprelly there was no such donation made by Constantine. And because those who are most diligent observers of memorable antiquities speak nothing of this donation, as neither Eusebius, nor Hieronymus, nor Augustine, nor A●brase, nor Basilius, nor chrysostom, nor Ammianus, nor Histeri● Trip ●●tita, nor Pope Damasus in his Chronicle, nor Beda, nor Oros●us, it is but a dream, yet it is certain that three hundreth veares after Constantine the Emperor's keeped Rome, and the Towns of Italy, by their precedents and deputies, as may be seen in d Iustm●an lib 1. & 2. the off praes praes Ap●ric. Justini●n. And this they did to the time of Inn●●●ntius the second, as Chronicles do bear. 6. We do not teach that Churchmen are loosed from the positive Laws of Emperors and Kings. Bellarmine e Bell●●mm de clericis c. 28. saith that the Magistrate can neither punish Churchmen, nor convene them before the tribunals so Innocentius the third, saith f Inno●●ntius III. decret. 1. t●t 3●. de Major. 〈…〉. imperium non paeest tace●datio, sed sudsubest, & 〈…〉. the Empire is not above the Pope, but the Pope is above the Empire. And Bonifacin● the eighth g Bonifacius 8. extra de 〈◊〉 & obed. C. una●n ●●n●●m. ●mnes Christ sideles de nec●ssit●● sa ●uis sub●●nt Pon●fici Rom●an 〈…〉 habet, & ●mnes ●u●●cat, 〈…〉. saith, all upon hazard of their salvation, are subject to the Pope of Rome, who hath the power of both swords, and judgeth all and is judged by no man. Now it is known to 〈◊〉 Nicanor, that the Prelates of England and Scotland in their high Commission, had the power of both swords, and that by Episcopal Laws, the Primate 〈◊〉 all the 〈◊〉, and is judged by none, and who but he? and who ever spoke as h 〈…〉. Suarez? That Church-m●n 〈…〉 co 〈…〉 against Princes, even to detbrane them. And as he saith, 〈…〉, by divine Law the Pope is eximed from a● Laws of Princes: and shall we in this believe i 〈…〉. Bellarmin●, k 〈…〉. Sato, l 〈…〉. ●●●etanus, m 〈…〉. Turrecremata, n 〈…〉. Gr●g●rius de Valent. o 〈…〉. Sua●●●● and then forsooth they bring us their p Silvest. in Concil. 〈◊〉. c. 20. Canon Law to judge the Law of God, & to prove it, because it is said by their Silvester, nemo judicabit primam ●dem, and their q Gratian ● 43. c. nemo judicabit. Gratian learned this jus divinum, this divine Law from Innocentius the Pope. And what they allege for Peter's exemption from paying tribute, will exime all the disciples, and so all Churchmen by divine right from the Laws of Princes. Yea all Clergymen (say they) by a divine positive Law are eximed from the Laws of Magistrates. So saith r 〈…〉. Suarez, s 〈…〉. Bellarmine, and t 〈…〉. the 〈◊〉 of Rbeimes, but with neither conscience, nor reason. And contrary to their own practice and doctrine. For Paul will have every soul subject to superior Powers, and except the Roman Clergy want Souls, they must also be subject. Solomon punished Abiathar, Josiah burned the bones of the Priests upon the A●tar, Christ subjected himself to his Parents, paid tribute to Caes●r, and commanded Scribes and Pharisces to do the like, Matth. 22. Willing that they should give to Cesar those things which are Caesar's. Paul appealed to Caesar's Tribunal, and Rom. 13. as many, as may do evil, as many, as are in danger of resisting the power, are to be subject. Rom. 13. 4. 2. but Churchmen are such, therefore they are subject. Agatho Bishop of Rome writing to Constantius the Emperor, calleth himself imperii famulum, a Subject of the Empire, and saith, pro obedientia quam debuimus. Leo submitted himself to Lodovick the Emperor. w 2. quest. 7. The Clergy of Constantinople may be convened before the Patriarch or Precedent of the City. See the x Cod l 1. leg. 31. An●●emius, Cler●●● explained. Law. And y Cod. l. 1. ●●●. 5. leg. 24. and z Cod. l. 1. ●●●. 6. leg. 34. Anthemius praesi lal● ju●isd● ctio. 111. etc. Bishops, Clerks, Monks, etc. for criminal causes are judged by the Precedents: If a man have a suit with a Clerk, for a money matter, if the Bishop resuse to hear, tunc ad civilem judicem, etc. a Causon 4. 1. ca 45. decret. Grego. l. 5. tit. 39 c. 23. Clem. 3. say they. Sigebertus, as also b Luitprandus in vir●s Pontif in Agat●ore. Luitprandus doth witness that the Bishops of Rome were compelled to pay a certain sum of money to the Emperors, to be confirmed in their Bishopric, ev●n till the year 700. Leo the fourth, who is canonised by Papists as a Saint, c Ext●a. de Major & obed. C●unam. in Gloss. writeth to Lotharius the Emperor, that they will keep the Emperor's Laws for ever, and that they are liars who say the contrary. Arcadius made a Law, that if a Priest were found to be seditious and troubling the public peace, he should be banished an hundred miles from that place. But how far Popes have surpassed bounds in these; see their blasphemies. As they say d Clement. Pastor de re ju dic. God should not have been discreet, nisi potestatem Pontifici super principes contulisset, except he had given power to the Pope above Princes. Also e C. fundamen. de elect. in 6. Papam superioritatem habere in imperatorem, & vacant imperatore, imperatori succedere. Also f C. solit extrav. de Major. & obed. Papa habet utriusque potestatis, temporalis nempe & spiritualis, Monarchiam. Also g In l. 1. ceremoni. eccles. Rom. ●t. 7. Quanto sol lunam, tanto Papa superat Imperatorem. The Pope is above the Emperor and succeedeth to the Emperor's throne, when it is vacant, and he is as far above the Emperor, as the Sun is above the Moon. The Pope also (h) in the Nativity night, blesseth a Sword, and giveth it to some Prince, in sign, that to the Pope is given all power in heaven and in earth. 7. The Pope may lose all Subjects from their oath of Loyalty and may command that a Jesuit stab or poison a King, when he turneth enemy to the Roman Faith. All these Satan and envy itself cannot impute to our doctrine. Let L●simachus the Jesuit hear this, and see if his own little Popes, the Prclats, do not teach or aim at all these points against the Kings of the earth. CHAP. 7. SECT. 1. Of the way of Reformation of the Congregations of England. The way of the Churches of Christ in New England. IN the first article, the Author acknowledgeth the Church of England was once rightly, and orderly gathered, either by Apostles ●● apostolick men, whether Philip, or Joseph of Arimathea, or Simon Zelotes, as we may read in Fox, etc. Sothat all the work now, is not to make them Churches which were none before, but to reduce and restore them to their primitive institution. Answ. Though the Churches of England were planted by the Apostles, yet since Popery universally afterward prevailed, in both England and Scotland, as Beda and Nicephorus and ancient histories witness, we think by our brethren's grounds England loosed the very essence of a true Church. So that there be need of the constituting of a new Church, and not of simple restitution to the first restitution. 1. Because the Congregations wanteth the essential constitution of right visible Churches, as you say. 2. Because you receive none coming from the Church of New-England, to the seals of the Covenant, because they are members of no visible Church. Sect. 2. Certain propositions tending to Reformation. In the third or fourth Proposition the Author condemneth Laics Patronages. 2. Dedicating of Lands to the Ministry; to these add what the Ministers of New-England say a Answer to the 26. Question. in their answer to the thirty two Questions sent to them from Old-England, where they condemn stinted maintenance. Though the right of Church Patronages were derived from Romulus, it is not for that of noble blood. ●or b Dionys. Halicarnass. l. 2 antiquit. optiene cuiquam ex ●ulgo data, ut que●n vellent sibi pa●●onu●n el●ge●ent Dionysius Halicarnasseus saith Romulus instituted Patronages, when he had divided the people in noble and ignoble, called, Patricii & Plebeii. But this Patronage was civil, and when servants and underlings were hardly used, it hath a ground in nature, that they choose Patrons to defend them, therefore he who gave liberty to a a servant, amongst the Romans was called a Patron, and c Terentius in Eunu●ho●e mi●● Patronum cupie. I ●a●. he who defended the cause of the accused, as Valla saith, was called a Patron. If it be said that the servant was the proper goods, and part of the Master's patrimony, because he might sell his servant, and therefore there could be no Law given to prove men may limit the dominion of the master over the servant. I answer; the servant was a part of his master's patrimony, but a part thereof for sin, not as his Ox or his Ass, is a part of his patrimony; therefore by the Law of nature, whereby the weaker imploreth help of the stronger, as the Lamb seeketh help from the mother, and the young Eagle from the old, the slave might well have liberty to choose a Patron, and this is a ground that the Magistrate the Church's nurs-father by office should plead the Church's cause, as her Patron, and every one in power is to defend the Church in her liberties and patrimony; and therefore in the Apostles time, when holiness and the power of Religion did flourish, and was in court, there was not need of any positive, civil or Church Law, for a Patron to the Church, every believer in power is obliged to defend the Church: but when men became Praetors and ravenous birds to pluck from the Church what was given them, the Council of Millian d Concilium Melevitanu●n ●n. 402. in the year of God 402. wherein some say Augustine was precedent, under Honorius and Arcadius, some holy and powerful men were sought from the Emperor to defend the Church in her patrimony, and rights against the power and craft of avaricious men, and they were called Patrons, and the same was desired e Concilium Car●bagin. 5. c. 9 an. 420. in the first Council of Carthage, but with the Bishop's advice, cum provisione Episcoporum. Hence it is clear, patronages from their original were not Church privileges, and Bishops being a part of the Church, could not be the Patrons, quia nemo sibi ipsi potest esse patronus, and for this cause that learned f Hosp●nian de orig. te●nplo. to. 4. the orig. honour. eccles. c. 6. thinketh this was the original of Church Patronages, but the Patrons have been chosen with consent of the Church; hence they were not as our Patronages are now, which goeth 1. by birth, 2. and are a part of a man's patrimony, and civil thing, that the Patron hath right unto, under the King's great Seal; but as a Minister is not a Minister by birth, neither was a Patron a Patron by birth: and from this we may collect, that the Patrons right was but a branch of the Magistrates right, and accumulative, not primitive, and that he could take nothing from the Church, and 〈◊〉 less might the Patron forestall the free election of the people, by tying them and their free suffrages to a determinate man, whom he presented; and it is not unlike which g A●entinus in 〈…〉. 6. a●al. A●entinus 〈◊〉, when Bishops gave themselves only to the Word of God, to preaching and writing books in defence of the truth, the Emperor took care that they should be furnished with food and ●aiment, and therefore gave them a p●tronus quem 〈◊〉 patronum curatoremque vocabant, whom they called a patron; and here observe the Bishop of old was the client, and the son and Pupil, now he must be the Patron and Tutor, and therefore in time of Popery, Antichristian Prelates would be Patrons both to themselves and to the Churches. But this seemeth not to be the original of patronages, because this ground is common to all Churches, but not all, but only some certain Churches have patronages, therefore their ground seemeth rather to be that some religious and pious persons founded Churches, and dotted, and mortified to them benefices, and the Church by the Law of gratitude did give a Patronage over these founded Churches to the first foundators and their heirs, so as they should have power to nominate and present a Pastor to the Church. But there were two notable wrongs in this; for 1. If the fundator have all the Lands and Rents in those bounds, where the Church was erected, he is obliged to erect a Church, and furnish a ●●pend, both by the Law of nature and so by God's Law also. Ergo, the Church owe to him no gift of patronage for that, nor is he to keep that patronage in his hand, when he erecteth a Church; but and if he being Lord heritor of all the Lands and Rents, both erecteth a Church, and dotteth a stipend, sub modum eleemosynae, non sub modum debiti, by way of alms, not by way of debt, then is there no gratuity of honour, nor reward of Patronage due to him, for alms as alms hath no real or bodily reward to be given by those on whom the alms is bestowed, but only the blessings of the poor, Joh 31. 20. it being a debt paid to God, he doth requite it. And h Fdvar. Dido. lav. in 〈…〉. p. 591. Calderword saith, no wise man would think that the Church men should allure men to found Churches, and to works of Piety, by giving them the right of presenting a man to the change: and also he would call it Simony, not piety or religion, if one should refuse to do a good work to the Church, except upon so dearest rate, and so hard a condition as to acquire to himself po●er over the Church of God. Though the ●ight of presenting a man to benefice were a mere temporal thing, yet because it removeth the liberty of a free election of the fittest pastor, as i Origen. 〈◊〉 6. in Levit. is eligendus ex omni populo qui praestantior, qui doctor, qui sanctier. Origen saith, it cannot be lawful, but it is not a temporal or civil right, but a spiritual right, though we should grant that the people have a free voice in choosing, and that the patron were obliged to present to the benefice, the man only whom the people hath freely chosen, and whom the Elders, by imposition of hands, have ordained. 1. Because the Pastors hath right to the benefice, as the workman is worthy of his hire, and he hath a divine right thereunto by God's Law, 1 Cor. 9 8, 9 & c. Gal. 6 6. Matth. 10. 10. Ergo, if the patron give any right to the Pastor to the benefice, it must be a spiritual right. If it be said, he may give him a civil right before men, that according to the Laws of the Commonwealth, he may legally brook and enjoy the benefice; this is but a shift, for the civil right before men is essentially founded upon the Law of God, that saith, the workman is worthy of his hire: and it is that fame right really that the Word of God speaketh of: now by no Word of God, hath the Patron a power to put the Preacher in that case, that he shall be worthy of his wages, for he being called, chosen as Pastor, he hath this spiritual right not of one, but of the whole Church. 2. It is true, Papists seem to be divided in judgements in this, whether the right of patronage be a temporal or a spiritual power; for some Canonists as we may see k Abb. decius & in Abb. decius, l Rubi. in c. Quanto de jud. & in d. ca de 〈◊〉. and Rubio, and the Gloss m Glossa in c. piae menus 16. q. 7. saith it is partly temporal, partly spiritual. Others say it is a spiritual power, as n Anton de Butr. & Anton. de Butr. and o Andr. Barbat. in d. c. Quando. Andr. Barbat. and p F●ancis. Suarez 〈…〉 & Statu 〈…〉 4 de 〈…〉 8 ● 5. Suarez, and whereas Papists do teach that the Church may lawfully give a right of presenting to Church benefices, even to those who are not Church men, the power must be ecclesiastical and spiritual, and cannot be temporal; also Suarez saith, that the right of patronage may be the matter of Simony, when it is ●●ld for m●ney. Ergo, they think it an holy and spiritual power. It is true q Ma●. An 〈…〉 Spalate● de 〈…〉. 3. pag. 9●9. the Bishop of Spalleto calleth it a temporal power, which is in the hand of the Prince, but there is neither reason nor Law, why it can be called a temporal power due to a man, seeing the patron hath (amongst us) a power to present, and name one man, whom he conceiveth to be qualified, for we find the nomination of a list, or the seeking out of men fit for the holy ministry, some times ascribed to the Church, as Act. 1 23. Then they appointed two, Joseph called Barsabas, who was surnam d Jus●us, and Mathias, which words may well be referred to the eleven Apostles, and so they nominated men, or to the Church of believers, and so though it be not an authoritative action, it is an ecclesiastical action, and belongeth to the Church as the Church, and so to no Patron: and the looking out of seven men to be presented as fit to be ordained Deacons, is expressly given to the Church of believers, Act. 6. 3. Wherefore Brethren, look ye out amongst you, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, seven men of honest report; and sometimes the Apostles do nominate men for the ministry, but never doth the holy Ghost mention a Patron. But if the thing itself (say they) he necessary, then is the office not unlawful. But it is most necessary that some one or more eminent and powerful men, should have power to see that the Church goods be not delapidated. Answ. It is a part of the Magistrates office, with his accumulative power, whereby he seeth that every one do their duty, to take care that vultures and sacrilegious devourers of Church livings be punished; and the Church themselves are to censure all guilty of Simony or delapidation of the rents of the Church, as may be gathered by due analogy from Peter's punishing with death, the sacrilege of Ananias and Saphira, and the Simony of Simon Magus. 2. The ancient Church ●ooke care of dividing of the Church rend very carefully in four parts; one was given to the Pastor, who was not to employ ●ents of the Church upon Horses and Coaches, and conquering Baronies and Lordships to their sons, as our idle belleys were in custom to do, but the Bishop was to entertain Hospitals, and to feed the poor, to take care of bridges, repairing of Churches, so as r A●brosius l. ●. epist. ●●. epist. ●●. 〈…〉, quod pa●peru ●●●● est. Ambrose saith, what ever is the Biships, it is the poors; a second part was given to the Elders and Deacons; a third part was for the repairing of Churches, and a fourth part for Hospitals, for poor and strangers; this distribution with some other order, is made, if we believe Papists, s Sy●ol 3. 〈…〉 1. c 4. in a Synod at Rome under Silvester the first, though Socrates, Theodoret, Sozomen, and others well versed in antiquity speak nothing of this Synod, but you may see this clear in t Synod. Braca●ens. ● c. 25. Synodo Bracarensi, in u ●Span Anal. ●o. 289 Aventinus, in x Gregorus 〈…〉. Gregorius, so there is no need of a Patron, nor was there any in the Apostolic Church. Deacons were to take care for tables, and the goods of the poor, no reason that men seem more careful for the good of the Church then Jesus Christ. 3. Though there be a necessity that the Church be defended in her liberties, yet is there no reason, an office should be made thereof; as the Canonists make it an office, with a sort of stipend; And therefore to make a Patron they require not only the founding of a Church, but also the building of the house, upon his own charges, and the dotation of a maintenance for the Church, y 〈…〉. and for this cause the Patrou hath a burial place in the Church; and if he or his children become poor, they are to be entertained of the Church rends; and therefore they call it jus ●uti'e, a gainful power. 2. It is jus b●norifioum, he hath power to nominate and present a man to the benefice of the vaiking Church. 3. It is jus onerosum, because he is obliged to defend the Church; see the● z C●●decernimus 〈◊〉. 9 7. Law for this; so see also a Altar. dam●s●. pag. 3●2. Calderwood, b Gera●dus loc. co●n. 10. 6 the minister. eccles. sect 5 pag 134. 135. Gerardus, c Suarez to●n. de vi●tut & stai● relig. l. 4. de Sinon. c. 28 n. 1, 2. 3. Suarez, d Spalat●●sten●error. Suarez c. 3 n 939. Anton. de dom. arcb. Spal H●spinianus; yet Justinianus (●) 〈◊〉 16. q 7. himself forbiddeth that the Patron should present a man to the Bishop to be examined and tried, and certainly this place and charge for the defending of the Church of Christ from injuries and wrongs 〈◊〉 Christ of want of foresight and providence, who hath not appointed officers civil and e Hospinian. de origi. templ. de or●g. bonor. eccles. c. 6. c. 7. f Justiman. N●vel. 17. c. 〈◊〉 & c. 18. Nou. 123. eccle●●asticall to take care of his Church, for no power over the Church was ever given to builders of Synagogues, and therefore a calling by the Patron is no more Christ's way, than a calling by the Prelate and his Chaplain. 2. Nor would the Church receive the ministers from Christ Jer. 2. 5. and the laying on of the hands of the Elders, 1 Tim. 4. 14. 2 Tim. 2. 2. but by the authority of the Patron, who doth nominate the man, and may charge the Presbytery, by Law to admit him minister of such a flock. Nor is it enough to say that the Patron doth present to such a benefit only, and doth leave all the ecclesiastical part to the Church, and the officers thereof, for this would say something, if the Patron were tied to the Churches free choice, whereas the contrary is true, that the Church is tied to the Patrons free election of the man, but this is nothing, because the Patron being but one man only, and so the Church can have no lawful propriety, right and dominion over the rents of the Church, for Christ is only Lord and proprieter, and just titular of all rends dotted for the maintenance of the ministry, and under Christ, when the place vaiketh, the rents recurre to the Church, as the proper proprieter under Christ: as the goods of Ananias and Saphira are the goods of the Church, after they had given them in to the public treasury of the Church; Ergo, the Patron can give no right to any person to be presented and ordained, for no man can give to another that title and right which he hath not in himself. If it be said, he may give in the Church's name, as the Church's Patron, those goods which are mortified to the Church, well, then is the Patron in the act of presenting the representative Church, and hath the Church's power; Ergo, he is but the Church's servant in that, and to do at the Churches will, and the Church is the first presenter, this is a new representative Church, that we have not heard of. 2. This is against the nature of the Patron's office, whose it is, when he foundeth and buildeth a Church, to reserve the right of patronage to himself, and never to give that right to the Church; Ergo, by his own authority, and not in the Church's name, he giveth title to the benefice, to the Pastor of Minister. 3. The Church hath not power to alien ate and dispose to one particular man, those goods which are given to God, and to his Church, so as that one hath power in Law to dispose those goods to any, without the Church's consent, as the Patron may do. The Church may dispose and give power to one man to do certain actions in the Church's name, but yet so as the Church retaineth power to regulate that her delegate, or commissioner in these acts, and to correct him, in case of aberration; but the Church hath no power over the Patron as Patron to limit him in the exercise of his power, for the right of Patronage is his by birth, he may sell it for money to another; to a Papist, to an excommunicate person, to a Jew, or an enemy of the Church, as he may sell his lands and houses, and hath a civil right thereunto under his Majesty's great Seal; therefore the patron doth here, proprio suo jure, by his own proper right, present and give title and Law to the Church benesice, and doth not present in name of Church, or as having from the Church a power. 3. What ever taketh away an ordinance of Christ, that is not lawful: but the power of Patrons taketh away the ordinance of Christ, and the free election of the People, because the people have power to choose out of many one fittest, and most qualified, for the office; as is clear, Act. 6. 3. Act. 1. v. last. Act. 14. 23. because the man chosen should be one of a thousand, as g A●●● da●nas. pag. 332. Didoclavius or Calderwood saith in that learned Treatise, called Altar Damascenum. Nor can it be said (saith that learned Author) that the Church may transfer her right of presenting to a Patron, for that is in effect to transfer her power of election, but that (saith he). the particular Church cannot do except by the decrce of a gener all assembly, neither can that right be transferred over to a general assembly, especially a perpetual and hereditary right, because (as saith h Cartwright 2. reply, ● pa●t. pag. 226. Cartwright) it is a part of that liberty, which is purchased by Christ's blood, which the Church can no more alienate and dispose, than she can transfer or dispose to another her inheritance of the kingdom of God, to the which this liberty is annexed: thus he. 4. The discerning of the spirits, and the knowing of the voice of Christ speaking in his called servants, is laid upon the flock of Christ, whose it is to elect, but not upon the Patron, which may be a Heathen, and a Publican, and as such is no member of the Church. 5. Every humane ordinance not warranted by Christ's Tostament, and abused to sacrilege, rapine, delapidation of Church-rents, and Simoniacal pactions with the intrants into the holy ministry, is to be abolished, and is unlawful: but the right of patronages is such as experiences teacheth to many and lamentable. The proposition is above cleared. 6. That calling in part or in whole, which giveth no ground of faith, and assurance of a lawful calling to the Ministers entry to that holy charge, cannot belawfull; but the calling to the ministry by the good will and consent of the Patron as Patron, is such. Ergo. The proposition is clear, every lawful mean and way of entry unto that calling is warranted by a word of promise, or precept, or practise; the calling by the patron's consent, hath neither word of promise, or precept, or practise in the Word; and stayeth not the conscience of the man of God, that he did not run unsent: but a man is never a whit the more stayed in his conscience, that he is presented by a Patron, to the tithes, and parsonage and vicarage of such a Congregation. It is but a cold comfort to his soul, that the Patron called him. 7. What ever privilege by the Law of nature all incorporations have to choose their own rulers and officers, this Christ must have provided in an eminent manner to the Church: but all cities, societies, incorporations and kingdoms have power to choose their own rulers, officers, and members, as is clear by an induction of all free colleges, societies, cities and republics. Ergo, this cannot be laid upon a Patron; see for this also i Amesius, de conscient. l. 4. c. 25 q 5. n. 23, 24. Amesius, k Gul. Ap l 〈…〉. in sac a sect. 2 c. 1. pag. 61, 162. Guliel. Apollonius, who citeth that of l Athanasius epist ad solitariam ●●●am agentes. Uhille Canon ut a palatio mittatur is, qu● sutu● us est Epis●opus: Ath●nasius, Where is that Canon in the Word, that the sent Minister of Christ, is sent from the Court, or the Prince's Pala●e? As concerning the other two, this author condemneth Lands dedicated to the ministry, because the New Testament speaketh nothing of such Lands. Answ. This speaketh against Glebes of Ministers, but the New Testament speaketh not of Manses or houses, or of moneys for Ministers; yet a wage we know is due, Matth. 10. 10. 1 Cor. 9 8, 9, 10. Gal. 6. 6. and the Levites were not to be distracted from the most necessary work of the Tabernacle, and service of God, more than Ministers, yet they had Lands and Towns assigned of God to them; though the less distractious the wages be, the better, and the more convenient they are, 2 Tim. 2. 3. 4. 5. As for the tithes we think quotta decimarum, or a sufficient maintenance, of tithes, or what else may conduce for food and raiment, of divine right, Matth. 10. 16. 1 Cor. 9 8, 9 tithes formally as tithes are not necessary, so the Ministers be provided, and a stipend be allowed to them, not as an alms, but as a debt, Luk. 10. 7. But the stinting of maintenance for Ministers the author condemneth, because when Constantine gave large rents to the Church, it proved the lane of the Church. But I answer, stinting maketh not this, but excess, for mountains of rents may be stinted, no less than molehills. In the first proposition Pastors are to be chosen of new, in England, though they have been Pastors before, and that by the imposition of the hands of some gracious and godly Christians. Answ. Such an ordination wanteth all warrant in the Word of God. 2. Why are they ordained over again, who were once ordained already? belike you count them not Ministers, and baptism administered by them, no baptism, though these same gracious Christians have been baptised by such, and so England hath no Church visible at all, and no ministry; see what you lay upon Luther and some of our first reformers, who had their external calling from Antichristian Prelates, the same very thing which Papists lay upon them. 3. If there be called Pastors in England to lay on hands on Ministers, why are not they to impose hands on such as you judge to be no ministers? because possibly the Prelates laid hands upon them, seeing you grant Chap. 5. Sect. 9 where there are Presbyters to lay on hands, it is convenient that ordination should be performed by them. I confess I am not much for the honouring of the Prelates foul fingers, yet can they not be called no Pastors, no more then in right we can say, Caiaphas was no High Priest. Proposition 6. He willeth Pastors, and Doctors, and Elders to be put in the ●●●me of Parsons and Vicars. Answ. If the offices of Parson and Vicar be set up, it is reason they be abolished, but for the names there is not much necessity of contending, though in such cases it be safer to speak with the Scripture, then with Papists: the Vicar General is indeed the Bishops delegat, and a creature to be banished out of the house of God, of whose unprofitable place & stile, see that learned writer m Alter da●●●. par. 458. D●●id Calderwood, who findeth him to be made of the metal of the Pope's service, base Copper not Gold. n 〈…〉 and the Popish parson is as the Vicar; Firewood for Antichrists Cauldron. In the 12. and 13. Propositions, it is said, that it is necessary 〈◊〉 Preachers countenanced from King, and State, were sent to 〈◊〉 to congregations generally ignorant, and profane, and till they 〈…〉 measure of gracious reformation, as they can testify their faith and repentance, it were meet they should never renew their C●●●nant made in baptism, nor yet have the Seals of the Covenant con●●●ed upon them, but till then they shall lament after the Lord, as the 〈◊〉 did when the Ark had been long absent, 1 Sam. 7. 2. Answ. In these Propositions most of all the Congregations of England, except some few following the way of independency of Church government, though they be baptised and profess the truth, are brought just to the state of Turks and Indians willing to hear the Word, or of excommunicated persons, for they and their seed are to want the Scales, their children Baptism, themselves the Lords Supper. But 1. how can the 〈◊〉 in ordinary rebukes, and excommunication from the S●al● be exercised upon these who are without, and no Church as yet? for while they swear the Covenant, they are not Churches. 2. It is said, godly Preachers must be sent to them, 〈◊〉 th●y 〈◊〉 reform; but why not godly Pastors? because though these preachers preach unto them, yet exercise they no Pastoral care over them, because they are not yet a visible Church and flock, and therefore have no more Pastors to care for their souls, than Turks and Indians, and Preachers have 〈◊〉 a Pastoral relation to these, though baptised, and 〈◊〉 Christ, then to Indians, Jews or Turks, as our brethren teach, & a pattern of such flocks is not hard in the word, where ordinarily the word is preached to a number of people baptised, and yet baptism denied to all their seed, and the Lords Supper to themselves. 3. It is the same Covenant the author speaketh of here with the Church Covenant that 〈◊〉 and Judah made with God, and which they say essentially constituteth a Church, and hinteth at the Covenant of the Church of Scotland, sworn and subscribed by many thousands ignorant and profane, and who never came to such a measure of gracious reformation, as they can testify their faith and repentance; yet did this nation right in putting all to swear and enter into a Covenant with God, for Israel, Deut. 29. where there was many who had not eyes to see, ears to hear, and a heart to understand, v. 3. 4. and where there were many rebellious and stiff-hearted, Deut. 31. 27. entered all of them into Covenant with God, Captains, Elders, Officers, all the men of Israel, Deut. 29. v. 10. Little ones, wives, children, hewers of wood, etc. all which attained not to such a measure of gracious reformation. 2 Chron. 15. 9 all Judah and Benjamin, and the strangers with them out of Ephraim and Manasseh, and out of Simeon, entered into a Covenant with God; who after such Apostasy could not all have attained to that measure of gracious reformation, as to testify their faith and repentance by prayer, conference, experiences of God's ways in their heart and confession, and yet the Author saith o Chap. 1. Sect. 1. that there is no colour to conceive this way of entering into Church estate by Covenant, to be peculiar to the pedagogue of the Old Testament. 4. Israel's lamenting after the Lord, 1 Sam. 7. 2. was not the repentance of a people, who was not a Church visible, but was only a people to be prepared for a Church State, and not fit to receive circumcision and the passoever; as you conceive of the ignorant and profane in England, which to you are no visible Churches; for Israel at this time was a true visible Church. The rest of the propositions tending to reformation not discussed elsewhere, I acknowledge to be gracious and holy counsels, meet for a reformation. The Lord build his own Temple in that Land, and fill it with the cloud of his glory. FINIS.