THE carmen's REMONSTRANCE, OR A Reply to the false and scurrilous Papers of the WOODMONGERS, by them put out against the CARREMEN: IN A Way of opposing them in getting of their Charter, and Vindication of the carmen's intentions against the Scandal of the WOODMONGERS.  
Directed to the Right Honourable, ALEXANDER GARLAND Esquire, and the rest of the Committee of Parliament Who heard the business between the Woodmongers and the Carmen.  
And likewise to the Lord Mayor and Court of Aldermen of the City of London.  
By STEPHEN SPRATT Solicitor for the Carremen.  
Printed at London by G. Dawson 1649.   

TO THE RIGHT HONOURABLE, Alexander Garland, Esquire; And the rest of the Committee appointed by Parliament for hearing the controversy between the Carmen and Woodmongers of London, etc.  
And to the Right Honourable, the Lord Major, and Court of Aldermen of the City of LONDON, Grace, Mercy, and Peace be multiplied, unto you from God the Father, and from our Lord Jesus Christ.  
RIGHT HONOURABLE,  
IN this following Treatise you will partly find the contest between the Carmen of LONDON, etc. and the Woodmongers of the same, etc. I am confident, that you of the Committee above mentioned, are very sensible of the willingness, and great care of this (our happy, blessed, and worthy renowned Parliament, in giving such speedy ear to the cries of the poor Carmen, and how quickly they were pleased to read their Petition when it was first presented; for which the Carmen have a triple duty upon them towards the Parliament: And your care in meeting at the Committee, as soon as the Petition was refarred, to examine the matter on both sides, was so much, that the Carmen, their poor Wives and Children, are ever bound to be thankful, and to honour and serve you for ever. I doubt not but you are sensible of the great oppressions the Carmen lay under, by their being governed by the Woodmongers: And I believe your Honours were well satisfied with the proof of the same.  
And I doubt not but you the Lord Major and Aldermen of the City of LONDON do very well know what wrong the Woodmongers have done the Carmen. And no doubt but you would have relieved them to the utmost of your power, had the Carmen come with their petition. But I advised them, that nothing could perfectly and perpetually relieve them from their oppressions, but to be severed from the Woodmongers company, and to be incorporate in one Body by themselves, by Charter under the great Seal of England, which you had no power to grant: and therefore they petitioned the Parlirment, in whose power it is to grant the same. The matter hath been fully heard, and received many debates: The Woodmongers have been heard at large what they could say, and Mr. Recorder was heard what he could say on behalf of the City, as he can well report to you. Mr. Recorder can report to you what horrible and unjust things were proved against the Woodmongers in point of measure of coals, and how the good people of the City are cheated, although the Woodmongers in a scandalous paper delivered lately to the members of Parliament, did basely scandalise and calumniate the Committee, saying, they would not hear them vindicate themselves. Truly you may very well believe that those who so openly and impudenrly will scandalise a Committee of Parliament, will very easily abuse the Carmen, who they have made their slanes so long time. But it is well known that the Woodmongers were heard, and heard again, three days one after another, and had nothing to say; but all their desire was to delay time, and to weary out the Carmen, as the Committee very well knows. And now they as much endeavour to retard the Committee from making their Report to the House: And all is, because they would weary out the Carmen, and continue their usurped authority over them, and to get as many Rent-dayes past as they can: to get in the Car-rents, that so they may go to Law with the Carmen with their own money, and most they have now to say is by way of prediction, how the Carmen will abuse the City, and abuse Merchants, etc. when I know to the contrary: For the Carmen have from time to time in their meetings declared against the rudeness of some of their Apprentices and Journeymen, and are resolved whensoever the Government is put into their hands, to remedy any abuse whatsoever, which the Woodmongers never took care to do.  
Now there is nothing wanting but the report to be made, and the Act passed: I beg for God's sake, and Justice sake, that you the Committee will be pleased to hasten the same; and that you the Lord Major, and Aldermen of London, will become Advocates to the Parliament, on behalf of the poor Carmen, by declaring your willingness in petitioning to the Parliament, that they will be pleased speedily to grant the Carmens' desires, before they be utterly ruined by the Woodmongers, that there may be no more leading into catpivitie, nor no complaining in your streets.  
And he, who is bound in duty to pray for your health and prosperity, will ever remain,  
Your humble, and faithful Servant, STEPHEN SPRAT.   

The CARMEN Reply to the WOODMONGERS Answer to the carmen's Petition, which the Woodmongers call, A Scandalous Paper, etc.  
TThe Woodmongers say, The Carmen proved not any one Article against them before the Committee, as a Corporation: Nor that they did not err from the Government put into their Hands. But that which the Carmen supposed to be proved, was deceit against some particular men in their measure of Coals; which did much take with the Committee: And being out of the Verge of their reference, those particular men were not suffered to answer any thing in their own vindication.  
Reply. That all the Articles exhibited by the Carmen, were proved against the Woodmongers, which was the ground of the resolution of the Committee, viz. That the Carmen should be severed from the Company of Woodmongers, and be a Corporation by themselves distinct from the Woodmongers.  
Reply. That a Corporation is invisible, titular, or nominal, and so cannot err: But the members of a Corporation may err, and so did the members of the Company of Woodmongers, as it was proved before the Committee; and the capital errors were these, viz.  
The taking away of the Estates of poor men, widows, and children, (to wit) Car-roomes, which they purchased with their money at dear rates. The taking away of which Rooms, hath been the cause of the starving to death many poor fatherless children, etc.  
Reply. That they have and do err from the government put into their hands, for that their Charter doth not give them power to take away any Car-roomes from any man, who hath, or ever did purchase the same; nor from the widows or children of any Carman, nor to abuse the City with false measures.  
The Woodmongers say, That a Car-room is nothing but a Brand, or Licence set on the side of a Cart, to know the number limited, being 400.  
Reply. They say true in that, and thereby the Carmen know their Right: And if any others should set up Carts, and mark them with that Brand, or mark, than the Carmen do know themselves to be wronged, & their labour to be taken from them. And if any Cars be set on work with the Mark or Brand on the side of it, and do exceed the number of four hundred; then the City is abused, and the Carmen rob of their labour: But the Woodmongers did, and do still allow above forty Carts to work more than the number of four hundred with the Mark or Brand on the side thereof, etc. And by allowing of these Carts above the number of four hundred, they get at least three hundred pounds a year: but the Lord knows what they do with the money; and what is become of the Stock of the Hall, no man but themselves can tell, albeit their books testify that the Revenue of their Company is 800. pound per annum, and all raised out of the poor carmen's labour: and the Hospital go unpaid their Rent, at Midsummer last 250. pounds in arreare, which the Carmen would scorn to suffer, were they but once incorporate by themselves.  
II. The Woodmongers say in their Answer, That Carlicences, or Car-roomes, and Carmen, were time out of mind, in the rule and disposition of the City, who did from time to time, set down orders for their Government, and the Cities quiet: And the Carmen themselves petitioned to be under the Woodmongers government, and to be incorporate with them, by reason they were not capable to govern themselves; and the ordering of them was by Act of Common-council, commiitted to the Woodmongers, who did condioion with the City to pay to Christ's Hospital 
a By what authority.  150. l. per annum for their poors relief.  
Reply. The Carmen do not endeavour to be from under the Rule of the City, but to be from under the rule of the Company of Woodmongers, and to be under the Rule, prescription, and protection of the Lord Major, and Court of Aldermen (were they but incorporate by themselves, as other Companeiss are) and to pay to the City the hundred and fifty pounds per annum more faithfully than the Woodmongers have done. And to stand to, and abide such Orders and by Laws (for their good government and just deal with Merchants and others of the City) as by consent of the Judges of the Land, and consent of the Lord Major and Court of Aldermen they shall make.  
Reply. And whereas the Woodmongers in their answer say, That the Carmen did petition to be incorperate with them. Whether this be true, or false, it is no great matter, (but the Carmen say, It is false) and that the Woodmongers did only use the carmen's name in their Petition (without their consents) to King James in the first year of his Reign, merely to set a grace upon their Petition, to procure their Charter, or else they had never gotten it. But suppose the Carmen did petition to be under the Woodmongers Government, yet not so under them as never to come to be Masters, nor bear rule in the Company; as now the Woodmongers deny to suffer them: neither can it be thought, that the Carmen ever intended so to lose their birthrights, as to serve a Prenticeship in London for a Freedom (as they have done) and never to bear rule in their Company, but, to live as slaves to the Woodmongers. Besides, it is very probable, that the Woodmongers in those days were honest men: And therefore the Carmen might well petition to be incorporate with them; both Parties at that time being but a small body; but now the multitude both of Carmen and Woodmongers arising to a great body; and the Woodmongers still encroaching and entrenching upon the carmen's privilege. They may, and do see more reason to petition to be seavered from the Woodmongers, than ever they did to be joined with them; and therefore the Woodmongers allegation in that, is vain and foolish.  
Again, The Woodmongers say, The Carmen were not capable to govern themselves. For reply to that, Whether this be a scandal to the Carmen in those days, is not worth disputing. But if they were not capable in those days to govern themselves; yet that is no argument that the Carmen of these days are not capable to govern themselves, for few of these were Carmen in those days. Besides, in these later ages all men grow wiser and wiser, and so do the Carmen. Yet further for reply, Why the Carmen should not be as capable of Government as the Woodmongers are, let the World judge? Or why the Carmen were not so able to govern when they were incorporate, first, let Reason speak? What were the Woodmongers in those days, when the Corporation was granted? A few poor petty fellows, that bought Coals and Wood, and sold them again, and were so few in number, whilst they lived merely by honesty, that in the third year of King James, when their Charter was granted, they were forced to take out ten men out of the Company of Farriers to make them a Company. Now let Reason speak, Why may not a Carman be as capable of Government as a Farrier? Now the world may see what brave Blades these Woodmongers were, that make such brags of their excellency in Government. Cast your eyes a little upon the Woodmongers of these times, and behold what Gallant Race, or Stock they come on. Some of them made Canvas Slops for Seamen, some are Brewers, and some were Cobblers, &c, And when they were so near cracked they could hardly hold together, then for lucre of the Car-roomes, which they knew they should have power to take from poor Men, Widows, and fatherless Children, (their Rooms being worth 50, or 60. pounds' apeice,) they turned their Copies and came to be Woodmongers. Now let Reason be the Judge once more, Why may not the honest Carmen of these times be as capable of Government as a Slop-maker, a Brewer, or a Cobbler? &c  
One word by way of Argument: Why not the Carmen to be a Company incorporate by their selus, as well as the Woodmongers, Porters, Watermen, and Tankard-bearers, etc. Are these people so able to govern above the Carmen? O but the reason why the Woodmongers do so much oppose the Carmen, in getting of their Charter, is because of the Car-roomes, O the sweet Car-roomes; four hundred of them (saith the Woodmongers) that paid unto us 17. 4d. per annum, and 1. 6d. quarterage, and 20. every turn over, and 20. a piece admittance, besides 20. upon every Car-roome, taxed by us, when, and as often as we please, besides 3. per week for so many as we pleased to seal above the number of four hundred, out of which we have feasted our Bellies with many a fat Capon, and with other good cheer, whilst many of the poor Widows of our Company, and fatherless children hath perished for want of bread, whose Car-roomes we used to take away at our pleasure. (Oh) these naughty Carmen will be divided from us, and then our Glory will lie amongst our Coals: O when the Car-roomes be gone, what shall we do for a Hall-Stock to give and lend one to another; to go down the River, and forestall the Market, and to keep up the combination amongst us, to the intolerable abuse of the City and parts adjacent, in keeping up the price of Coals. O come, let's Bustle, and persuade the Parliament-men to keep up our Interest, though it be never so much to their dishonour. Now the reasons are discovered why the Woodmongers do keep such a bussling, to keep the Carmen from getting a Charter: But the Carmen do know, and believe, that this Honourable Parliament, for whom they have so often ventured their lives, (and never fought against, as the Woodmongers have done) will do them Justice, and Relieve them from their oppressions, in despite of all gainsayers.  
III. The Woodmongers say, the Carmens' desires in making Car-licenses hereditary, to be bought and sold, is uncustomary, illegal, and against equity, to the ruin of thousand Families of poor Carmen, for present and future, that are never able to purchase a Car-roome at those dear rates which then will be, the said Car-roomes always having been, and now are given as Favours to Deserving, Honest 
b That's none of the Woodmongers.  Carmen, that served their Apprenticeships, 
c That's more than the Master of the Woodmongers ever did.  and dismissed from dishonest and unruly men, as Precedent 
d A good Precedent, for a Freeman of London to lose his calling at the pleasure of a Woodmonger.  for above a hundred years.  
For Reply: First, the Car-roomes, which the Woodmongers call Car-licenses, are, and aught to be a Chattel, and to descend to the Executor, or Administrator, when a Car-man dies: (the Reasons;) First, because of the set number, they must be four hundred, and no more, saith the Law of the City: Now these four hundred Car-roomes, being formerly settled upon four hundred Carmen, by purchase, or descent, are their proper Goods; for it is supposed there be 1000 Carmen, yet the number of 400 carts must not be exceeded. So then no Car-man can set up a cart, unless he hath a Car-roome, and cannot have a Room, unless he buy it of some other Car-man, and it must be of the foresaid number, this is one Reason why it is a Chattel; it may properly be called a Chattel annexed to a Free Hold, because it hath no determination, but goes to the Heirs, the Executor, Administrator, or Assigns, as the Testator please.  
Secondly, in regard of the Rent, the City is the Lord of the Fee, or chief Lord of the Car-roomes, and the Carmen are Tenants, and pay a quit Rent, that is, one hundred and fifty pounds a year.  
Thirdly: The Woodmongers say it is uncustomary. For Reply, it was, and is a custom older than the Woodmongers Charter, as hath been already proved, and the Woodmongeas do very well know, that their Hall-bookes do manifest, that Car-roomes were commonly bought and sold between man and man, as ordinary as any other commodity; yea, the Woodmongers well know, that Car-roomes were pawned and mortgaged for money, and accounted as good security as any Land, and this doth appear by their own Books, from 1605. which was the time their Charter was granted, till 1623. which was about the time the Woodmongers procured that wicked monopolising Decree in Star-chamber, by which the Woodmongers hath since acted, leaving all rules given them in their Charter, and sets up this Decree for a Law, and keeps much stir to have it maintained so, though to the ruin of men, women, and children, for time past, present, and to come.  
Again, their Hall-books show that these Car-roomes were sold, pawned, and mortgaged, to the knowledge of the company, and by their consent, so that if the company had then power to take them away, than their knowledge and consent to the selling, pawning, or mortgaging of them, might have been a fine way to cheat men of their money. This is another Argument to prove the Car-roomes hereditary, and proper goods and chattel, and lawful to be bought and sold.  
Another Rerson is, that the Car-roomes hath ever been appraised as part of the goods of the deceased, and inventoried and filled in the Orphan's court London, as it hath been already proved by the Records of that Court before the Committee of Parliament: Surely the Lord Major, and Court of Aldermen, would never have suffered car-roomes to have been filled in that Court, as the goods and chattels of the deceased, if they had not intended (they being the Landlords of the said Rooms) they should have been goods and chattels. The Woodmongers themselves hath lately sold car-roomes for fifty pounds a piece: And this is another Reason why car-roomes should be taken and deemed as a chattel. etc. at the disposing of the Testator.  
Reply: It is the most (e) equalest thing in the world, 
Woodmongers against Equity. Woodmonger  that every man should possess that which he doth purchase, or what descends to him of right.  
To the ruin of thousands of Families of the poor Carmen, for present and future.  
Reply: There is not thousands of Families of Carmen; but they are a great body, and therefore the more fit to be a Corporation.  
But the Woodmongers, by this part of their answer, would seem to rob Peter to pay Paul; they would have the 400 Car-roomes in their disposing, because they would give them to deserving, honest men, who have served their Apprenticeships. So then, those who purchased their Rooms forty years since, and served their Apprenticeships to, must be at the pleasure of the Woodmongers, whether they shall work at their trade yea or no; but they would take these Rooms, and give them one to another, and to their servants and friends, at their pleasure, upon pretext they were deserving, honest Carmen, and they would have all those, whom they judge to be undeserving, to lose their Livelihood, a very fine pretence.  
That the Carmen must serve seven years' Apprenticeship in LONDON for a Freedom, and not work at his Trade without the favour of the Woodmongers, or till they will judge them to be deserving honest men; no doubt but the Lord Major and Court of Aldermen will look to this: For they are the Fathers of every Freeman, and aught to take care that every Freeman, who hath a Trade to work on, may work quietly without molestation, or putting from his Trade by any Company, or else what is a Freedom worth, or to what end doth any man serve an Apprent iceship?  
Again, the Carmen were in a sad condition, if they should not enjoy their room but by favour of the Woodmongers, and till they did judge them deserving, they would be foully mistaken, as they were in the year 1647. when the ever honoured and renowned Army (under the command of that valiant and excellent piece of Virtue, the Lord Fairfax) came marching towards London for defence of the Parliament, the Woodmongers sent about to the Carmen, commanding their horses to help to draw out the Guns to the Works, to charge the Army, and keep them out of the City, and because they refused, the Woodmongers threatened to cut out their Car-roomes.  
Now you may see how well the Woodmongers would bestow the Car-roomes, if they had the disposal of them. This was no abetting of the treasonable engagement. These men are fit to be Governors, are they not? that upon every opportunity will be ready to cut the Parliaments throats. Who do you think they would give the Car-roomes to? Surely to such as themselves are, they should be accounted the deserving honest men, and not such as the Carmen, who now do become petitioners for a Charter, who have been all of them active for the Parliament, and most of them out in their service, and ventured their lives. And those Carmen whom the Woodmongers say are the major part, are none but a parcel of malignants that hold with them, to whom they would give the Car-roomes. And now in this time of Dispute they go cunningly to work, and seal Carts by night to these malignant party, because they should take the Woodmongers parts against the Carmen in gaining their Charter.  
The Woodmongers say likewise, That the carmen's desires are very unprofitable for the public in making of fuel dear, and the pricet of all sorts of carriages triple to what they were wont.  
Reply. This is the Woodmongers fiction, not their meaning; for than they would have given some Reason for it: But it is very unprofitable for the Woodmongers: For if the Carmen have the Government of all the Carts, and the carriage of all the coals and wood, as they ought to have, and the keeping of meaters sacks to serve the City, than the Woodmongers would lose their ungodly gain, and their opportunity to cheat both poor and Rich, with their short measure, and little sacks, as hath been at large proved before the Committee already, some, nay most of them want 6. bushels in a cauldron, which they ought to have; and therefore it were good for the City to look after this.  
The Woodmongers say, It is dangerous for Merchants, if the Carmen be not under some Governors than themselves, in the safety of their goods committed to their trust.  
Reply. Here the Woodmongers would make the Merchants their friends, and make the World believe that they are the cause of the Carmen preserving of Merchant's goods, when in truth it is no such matter. If the Carmen take a load of Wines, or any other Commodity whatsoever, and if it be miscarried by him, or his neglect, the Company of Woodmongers are not, nor never were enjoined to make it good to the Merchant, but it lies upon the Carman's score, and therefore this is a vain flash put out by the Woodmongers, to make the people believe a lie.  
The Woodmongers say, Very unpeaceable the Carmen are to the people that pass the streets.  
Reply. The Town Carmen who now petition the Parliament for a Charter, are not the Parties unpeaceable in the streets, but the Woodmongers own Carmen, who drive their Carts with Coals, are them, who commonly make any disturbance in the streets, to the great danger of the people that travail to and fro.  
The Woodmongers say, The carmen's desires are against their birthright, in denying them to carry their own goods, with their own Carts and Servants.  
Reply. It is not against their birthright, because it is according to the Charter of LONDON, for that by the Charter and by the Law of the Land, no man may use two Trades. And farther, if the Woodmongers keep Carts and Servants to carry out their own goods, than the Ironmonger, Fish-monger, Costermonger, etc. may keep Servants and Carts to fetch their goods from the water side; and the Merchants may keep Carts to fetch and carry their goods, and then what will be become of the Carmen, who being many in number, and have served their Apprenticeships for that Trade only, and have no other way to live upon. Again, it is destructive to all Companies in LONDON, and to all Charters of Companies, for the Woodmongers to keep Carts to carry out their own goods. By the same reason the Drapers may keep Cloathworkers in their house to dress their own Cloth, than that Trade is spoiled; the Silk men, Servants to thraw their own Silk, the Apothecary give his own Physic, and so bring all distinct Trades to one, and so destroy all Government.  
Now; let all men consider of what necessity it is to divide the Carmen from the Woodmongers, and give them a Charter by themselves, for the good of the Public, and for the good of the poor men and their wives and children after them, that when they die, the Woodmongers may not Roman-like, take away both their Room and their company, and leave their wives and children to perish in the streets, as many have done heretofore.   

Postscript.  
THe Woodmongers foolishly in a paper, at the foot of the paper say, that Captain Oxford, their Solicitor, did offer Mr. Sprat, the Solicitor for the Carmen, that the Woodmongers would consent to a disjunction from the Carmen, so that none may be compelled to go from them, that are willing to stay with them; and that the Carmen pay a proportion of their debts, contracted for the use of the Parliament, and otherwise.  
Reply: The Woodmongers do well know, that the Committee did so order, that the Carmen should pay a proportion of such debts as the Company did contract to lend to the Parliament, but not otherwise; and the Carmen are willing, and offered to meet the Master and Wardens three times to come to account with them, but they refuse to meet, to give any account; for in truth the Carmen have paid their share of those debts long since, and the Company keep the money, and let the debts go unpaid. Now to answer all other proposals at the foot of the said paper, is but to answer etc. according to his folly; but this will be a proper desire, that the Woodmongers do consent to the Carmens' desires, and appear gratis in the Lord Major's Court at Guild-Hall, to answer a suit in Equity, for the Revenue of the Company for this forty years, and so let the Law decide the account, and there let the account be given, and never trouble the Parliament about that, and let them quietly restore to the right owners, to wit, poor widows and children, and others, the fourscore and eight Car-roomes which they have takn away, by pretext of their decree in Star Chamber, and let them pay so much money back to the poor people, as the Rooms hath been worth since the taking of them, and then they will do like men of conscience and honesty, or else let them appear gratis to so many suits at common Law, to be brought upon the Statute made the 21 year of King james against Monopolies, and then out of doubt, they will be glad to cut scores with the Carmen, as to the matter of Account.  
FINIS.