A SPEECH of the Right Honourable WILLIAM LORD Viscount SAY AND seal, One of his majesty's most honourable privy council, spoken in Parliament. In answer to the Lord Archbishop of Canterbury's last Speech, and concerning the liturgy of the Church of England.  
Anno Domini, 1641.   

A Speech of the Right Honourable, William, Lord Viscount Say and seal, one of his majesty's most honourable privy council. Spoken in Parliament touching the liturgy.  
MY LORDS,  
I Have waited to find you free from greater businesses, that I might crave leave to speak of some thing that concerns myself; And this I have the more desired since my Lord of Canterbury's last speech, who expressing his troubles, and bewailing the misery of his condition, and of the condition of the church of England, (for he would needs join them together, which I think he may, as the cause and effect, for the miseries of the Church have certainly risen from him) he insisted much upon this. That these troubles had befallen him through the malice of two parties, the Papists, and the Sectaries, and by those he said the Church was greatly afflicted. How far this man will extend this word Sectary, and whom he will comprehend under it, I know not, but I have some cause to fear that I may lie under some misapprehensions in respect of matters of this nature, which how far it concerneth him your Lordships will perceive by what I shall say. My Lord of Canterbury a man of mean birth, bred up in a college, (and that too frequently falls out to be in a faction,) whose narrow comprehension extended itself no farther than to carry on a side in the college, or canvas for a proctor's place in the University, being suddenly advanced to highest places of government in Church and State, had not his heart enlarged, by the enlargement of his fortune, but still the maintaining of his p●ttie was that which filled all his thoughts, which he prosecuted with so much violence and inconsiderateness, that he had not an eye to see the consequences thereof to the Church and State, until he had brought both into those distractions danger and dishonour, which we now find ourselves encompassed withal; Yet to magnify his moderation, presently after the breaking of the last Parliament he told a Lord who sitteth now in my sight, that if he had been a violent man, he wanted no occasion to show it, for he observed that my Lord Say never came to prayers, and added, that I was in his knowledge as great a Separatist as any was in England. My Lords, how far he hath spit this venom of his against me, I am not certain; But I may well fear where it might do me greatest prejudice; I shall therefore entreat your lordship's favours and patience, that I may give you in these things which so nearly concern me, a true account of myself, which I shall do with ingenuity and clearness, and so as that if I satisfy not all men, yet I hope I shall make it appear I am not such a one as this waspish man was willing to make the world believe.  
For the first of these that he chargeth upon me, it may be he was willing to have it thought that I would not join in prayer with your Lordships, but refused such a communion, which is altogether false, for I should most willingly join in prayer with you. And further I will add, that I do not think but some set forms of prayer, by some men, in some cases, may be lawfully used; But this is that which I am not satisfied in, that a certain number of men should usurp an authority unto themselves to frame certain prayers and forms of Divine service, and when that is done, under the name of the Church to enjoin them upon all persons, in all times, and upon all occasions to be used, and none other: and upon this ground (which makes it the worse) because these come from the public spirit of the Church (when the Bishop or his chaplain shall frame them) and others proceed from the private spirit of this or that particular man.  
This injunction is an 〈◊〉 of power over the Churches of Christ, and over the gifts and graces which Christ hath given unto men: which the Apostles never exercised nor would assume, and yet they might much better have done it, and the same reasons might then have been alleged for it, that are now; This turns such forms in stead of being directions, into superstition.  
This sets aside the gifts and graces which Christ hath given and thrusts out the exercise of them, to substitute in their places, and introduce a device of man. This injunction of such forms upon all men, turns that which in the beginning necessity brought in for the help of insufficiency, to be now the continuance and maintenance of insufficiency, and a bar to the exercise of able and sufficient gifts and graces. As if because some men had need to make use of Crutches, all men should be prohibited the use of their legs, and enjoined to take up such Crutches as have been prepared for those who had no legs. This I confess I am not satisfied in, yet I will further say thus much: here are with your Lordships some Bishops, men of great parts, able to offer up this worship unto God; in the use of those gifts which God hath endowed them with: and certainly they ought to serve him with the best of their abilities which they have received. Let them make use of their own gifts, nay let them but profess that they account not themselves bound to use forms, nor to this form they use, more than any other, but that it is free to them to conceive prayer, or to help themselves by the use of any other form they please as well as this prescribed. And let them practise the same indifferently, that so it may be manifest the fault rests in the person, and not in the Service: in the negligence of him that may offer better if he will, not in the injunction of that which is offered. And I will not refuse to come to prayer, for I take the sin then to be personal, and to reside in the person officiating only. I know not whether I express myself clearly to be understood in this or not, and it may seem to be a nice scrupulosity, give me leave therefore to endeavour to 〈◊〉 it by an instance or two. In the time of the Law, when God appointed himself to be worshipped by offerings, and sacrifices the shadows and types of those truths which were to come. If a poor man that had not ability to bring a Bullock, or a ram, or a Lamb had brought a pair of Turtle Doves, or two young Pigeons, it would have been in him an acceptable service. But if a man of ability who had herds and flocks, should out of negligence or covetousness, have spared the cost of a Bullock or a ram, and brought young Pigeons, his service would have been rejected, and himself punished: how much more would the Service have been abomination, if men should have taken authority to have enjoined all to bring no other but Turtles or young Pigeons, because some were not able to do more? In one case there might be a tolerable and lawful use of that, which otherwise used (especially if generally enjoined) would have been most unlawful; God will be worshipped with the fat and the best of the innards, the best of men's gifts and abilities, which he that worships, or officiates in worshipping, is to do at his own peril; And if it be left free unto him, the worship may be lawful to him that joineth with him therein in itself, though performed in a negligent and so in a sinful manner by the Minister, but if that manner be enjoined, the Service itself is to be refused.  
Now in the time of the gospel, God hath appointed the foolishness of preaching (for so the world accounts it) to be the means whereby he will save those that believe; I conceive where there are no gifts enabling men to preach, there might be a lawful and profitable use of reading of printed Sermons and Homilies, and in such case they might very lawfully be heard; But if some men upon pretence to prevent extravagant preaching, should take upon them to set forth a book of public or common Sermons fit for all times and occasions, and should enjoin Ministers to conform to those, and use no other preaching at all, but the reading of these common Sermons or Homilies so devised for public worship, this would make it utterly unlawful, and to be professed against, as that which were the bringing in of a human device and injunction in the place, and in stead of God's ordinance, to the exclusion thereof, as the Pharises, to establish traditions of their own, made void the commandments of God; let it be considered what difference there can be found between these, but only this, Use and custom hath enured us to that of Prayer, not so in this of Preaching, and therefore the evil of it would easily appear unto us, if so enjoined.  
My Lords, let me presume upon your patience so far further as to give me leave to speak to the other imputation laid upon me, that I am a Separatist, and the greatest in England; and first I shall say of this word Separatist, as that learned man Master Hales of Eton, saith in a little Manuscript of his which I have seen.  
That where it may be rightly fixed and deservedly charged, it is certainly a great offence; But in common use now amongst us it is no other than a theological scarecrow, wherewith the potent and prevalent party useth to fright and enforce those who are not of their opinions to subscribe to their dictates, without daring to question them, or bring them to any rule or examination either of Scripture or reason. And he observeth that this was too usual, even in ancient times as well as now.  
Secondly, I say that there is a twofold separation; one from the universal or Catholic Church, which can no otherwise be made but by denying the faith, (for Faith and Love are the Requisites unto that communion) the other is a separation from this or that particular Church or congregation, and that not in respect of difference with them in matter of faith or love, but in dislike only of such corruptions in their external worships and Liturgies as they do admit of, & would enjoin upon others. This is a separation not from their persons as they are Christians, but from their corruptions in matter of worship, as they are therewith defiled; And this separation every man that will keep himself pure from other men's sins, and not sin against his own conscience, must make. And I will ingenuously confess, that there are many things in many Churches or congregations in England, practised, and enjoined upon all to be practised and suffered, which I cannot practise, nor admit of, except I should sin against the light of my conscience, until I may out of the word of God be convinced of the lawfulness of them, which hitherto I could never see sufficient ground for; But my Lords, this is so far from making me the greatest separatist in England, that it cannot argue me to be any at all; for my Lords, the Bishops do know that those whom they usually apply this term unto are the Brownists (as they call them by another name) and they know their tenants. The truth is, they differ with us in no fundamental point of doctrine or saving truth, as I know.  
Their failing is in this: they hold that there is no true Church in England, no true ministry, no true worship, which depend the one upon the other, they say all is Antichristian: here is their error, they distinguish not between the bene esse or purity of a true Church, and the esse or true being of it, though with many defects and gross corruptions. But conclude that because such things are wanting, which are indeed necessary to the well being of a true Church, and to be desired, therefore there is none at all in being. I hold no such opinion, but do believe to the contrary, That there are in England many true Churches, and a true ministry which I do hear, and with which Churches, I could join in communion, were those yokes of bondage which are laid upon them taken off, and those corruptions removed which they do (contrary as I think to their duty) yield unto and admit of, and this I am sure no separatist in England holdeth that deserveth that name. Therefore I hope your lordship's will in that respect let me stand right in your opinions. I shall now end with two requests.  
The one that your Lordships will please to pardon me for troubling you with so long a discourse concerning myself, I have not used it heretofore, and I am not like to offend again in the same kind, it is but once. and your Lordships will consider the occasion.  
The second is, humbly to entreat of you, that where you know there is one & the same God worshipped, one and the same faith embraced, one and the same spirit working love, and causing an unblameable conversation without any offence to the State, in your brethren, that in all these concur with. you, you will not suffer them (for Ceremonies, and things to you indifferent, but not to them but burdens, which without offence to the State, or prejudice to the Churches, you may take off if you will) to be thrust out of the Land, and cut off from their native country, for if you thus shall wound the consciences of your brethren, you will certainly offend, and sin against Christ.  
FINIS.