Jovis 11. die Novembris, 1680. Ordered, THat Mr. Turbervill have leave of this House to Print his Information relating to the Horrid Popish Plot. Will. Goldesborough. Cler. Dom. Com. BY virtue of this Order I appoint Norman Nelson to Print this NARRATIVE, and and that no other Person print the same. Edw. Turbervill. THE FULL NARRATIVE And Further DISCOVERY OF EDWARD TURBERVILL of Skerr in the County of Glamorgan, Gent. OF THE Horrid Popish Plot. CONTAINING Many Remarkable Passages concerning the Trial of William late Viscount Stafford. WITH An Account of the Gent. of Greys-Inn, who appeared in Court before the Lord High Steward to invalidate Mr. Turbervill's Evidence. LONDON, Printed for Norman Nelson, at Grey's-Inn Gate in Holbourn. M. DC. LXXXI. To his GRACE JAMES Duke of Monmouth. May it please your Grace, AS I have had the Honour to march under Your Banners in the Field, so I now presume to appear under the Ensigns of Your Impartial Justice. I am fully satisfied, that in the delivery of my Evidence, I uttered nothing but the Truth. So that if by this humble Address to Your Grace, I presume to make You the Patron of Truth, I hope Your Grace will pardon my Presumption, when You shall be pleased to consider that I had no other way to make a public acknowledgement to the World, how deeply I am engaged to Your Grace for those many Favours which You have been pleased to shower upon my Vndeserts. And for those ill Reflections that have been thrown upon me by the Guilty for my Duty to my Sovereign, I value them but little; and far the less, as one that has some reason to believe that Your Grace has a better Opinion of me. That honour I shall always study to advance by a studious observance of Your Grace's Commands, humbly hoping that to the rest of Your signal Favours, You will be pleased to add the Acceptance of this small Offering from Your Grace's Most Devoted and most Obedient Servant, Edward Turbervill. IT cannot be expected that a Person, who gives an Information to a Parliament, taken up with Multiplicity of Important and Weighty Affairs, should trouble such a Great and Solemn Assembly with more than what is at that time absolutely necessary, the bare matter of Fact. But there are still many other Requisite and Material Circumstances, which are reserved for a more Copious rehearsal. As to the First, the forwardness of some Printers has been too nimble for me. And therefore as to the Latter, which was that which I always intended to do, I have here made public those Additions and Recollections of Memory, which being Truths necessary to be known, and full Answers to the Demands of Public Satisfaction, I have here joined to the rest, and made all into one Body. And first, that I may give some account of myself, (for the Popish Priests and Traitors, though careless enough at another time, are very Inspective into the Credit and Conversations of those that appear as Evidence against them) I am to tell the World, That I was born at Skerr, in the County of Glamorgan; being descended from the Ancient Family of the Turbervills, that came in with William the Norman, commonly called the Conqueror, Of whom it is Recorded in Story, That in the time of Rufus the Son of King William, that Paganus Turbervill, was one of the Twelve Knights that assisted Fitz-Haimon in the Conquest of the County from one of the Princes of Wales. The Ancient Seat that belonged to the Family, was Coycey Castle, which after it had continued in the Name for Thirteen Generations successively, was at length carried away by Marriage into the Family of the Gamages; and after that into That of the Earls of Leicester, in whose Possession it now remains. During my Infancy, my Father and Mother being both Papists, and strict in their Way, even to the height of Bigottisme and Superstition, I was brought up in all the most exact Precepts and Doctrine of the Church of Rome. So that it was no small part of my Devotion, not only to hear, but very often to say Prayers myself for the good Success of the Affairs of the Church (meaning the Church of Rome) which were to be Transacted in the Year 1666. And I very well remember, that one Night, my Father's House being full of Strangers, I was lodged with two Priests, who at the same time told me, That I had had a greater Honour than if I had lain with two Angels. For that the Angels were but the Servants and Messengers of God; but that a Priest could command him from his Heavenly Throne, and give him to whom they pleased to be eaten. A piece of Blasphemy, which I not being then able to contradict, made me very much admire the vast power of those holy Incarnates: but having better since considered of it, has not a little augmented my astonishment at the Irreligion of those pretended Votaries. In the Year 1672, which was the Eighteenth of my Age, being a Younger Brother, I was recommended to wait upon the Lady Molineux, Daughter to the Earl of Powis, as her Gentleman Usher; in which Capacity I was by her entertained, and lived in the said Earl's House about Three Years. By which means, and by my Sedulity in Attending and Assisting at Mass, I became very intimate with Father William Morgan, than Confessor to the said Earl of Powis and his Family. This Morgan was also a Jesuit, and as it were a kind of Provincial and Director of all the Jesuits in the several Counties of North-Wales, and those of Shropshire and Staffordshire. I will not undertake to particularise all the Treasonable Discourses and Communications between this Jesuitical Confessor, and the said Earl and his Lady; but among the rest, this I have often heard the said Morgan several times repeat to the said Earl and his Lady, That the Kingdom was in a high Fever, and that nothing but Blood-letting could restore it to Health; for then the Catholic Religion would flourish. To which the said Earl would many times reply, That it was not yet time; However be made no question but that such means would be used with all convenient speed; or words to that effect. And so confident they were of this Revolution, that I have often heard the said Lady Powis tell the said Morgan both publicly and in private, That when the true Religion (meaning that of Rome) should be resto●●●, which she doubted not would be brought to pass in a short time, she would persuade her Husband to make a Gift of a Parcel of Land to the value of 300 l. per Annum, toward the Foundation and Maintenance of a Nunnery. And for a farther instance of their Confidence and Assurance in this Important Particular, while I continued in the said Family, there was one Madam Remige, a French Woman, and a Violent Papist, living at the same time with my Lady. This Gentlewoman married my Brother, and was a Person in whom my Lady greatly confided; upon which account the Countess would frequently take her along with her, when she went into Confessor Morgan's Chamber, at such time as they had their private Consults; where I have also frequently observed Father Gawen, Tow●●s, Evans, Sylliard, Roberts, Parry, owen's, White, the Earl of Castlemain and other Priests and Jesuits to meet. When they met, they were wont to shut up themselves sometimes for one, sometimes for two hours, more or less; and when their Consults broke up, the said Remige and Morgan the Confessor would seem to be in Raptures, frequently repeating their joy for the hopes they had that the Romish Religion would suddenly be established in England. Which they did not doubt but to bring to pass, notwithstanding they had met with a very great Disappointment, which was the Peace made up with Holland. For, said they, if the Army at Black-Heath had been sent into Holland to assist the French, when they lay with their Armies about Amsterdam, Holland had certainly been Conquered, and then the French would have been able to have assisted them with his Forces to establish Popery in England. Which Assurances of theirs in these and many other Expressions of the same nature, importing their Confidence to set up the Romish Religion, they frequently repeated as well to myself, and in my hearing. In prosecution of which Design, the said Morgan, as I have just cause to believe, took several Journeys to London and several Parts of England, and Voyages also into Ireland, to give and take directions for carrying on the Grand Plott. Upon the Discovery whereof, the said Madam Remige and her Husband, having privately sold their Estate, fled into France either in May or June last passed, for fear of being apprehended: the said Madam Remige, as I am assured by many Circumstances, being privy to all or most of the Transactions of the Conspiracy. And for the Earl of Castlemaine himself, about May last was Two Years, I was present at Mass with the Lord Powis in Vere-Street, when the said Earl said Mass in his Sacerdotal Habits, according to the Rites and Ceremonies of the Church of Rome. Among the rest of the Masses at which I assisted for this so earnestly expected Restoration, it happened, that one time a Spider fell into the Chalice after the Consecration of the Wine: Which the Priest observing, went on however with his Lurry, till he came to the Consummation of the Wine; at what time fearing that the Liquor of Life might prove the Potion of Death, he made a full stop, and sent me away to Father Morgan the Confessor, to know what he should do? Whereupon the Confessor considering well the danger of the draught, in a very surly manner, as being vexed either at the Accident or the Carelessness of the Priest, commanded me to bid him let it alone. Which caused me not a little to suspect the Credit of their Faith. For it was my belief, that the most Venomous Animals in the World must of necessity lose their Poison in the real Blood of Christ. Nor did I observe that the said Spider was taken out, washed and burnt, and the ashes locked up in the sacrary, as aught to have been done. Much about this time great Lamentations were made, as well by my Lord and Lady, as by the Priests that resorted to the House, and many Curses pronounced against Capt. John Scudamore of Kent-Church in the County of Hereford, for having apprehended and sent to Gaol one Eliot, a Priest. Which was a great disturbance and disappointment of their designs, and occasioned them to take new Counsels, and make new Provisions for the carrying on of the Plot. Having thus continued very devout in this same Secular course of Superstition and false Worship for the space of Three years or thereabouts in the said Earl of Powis' House, my Lady his Countess, and the said Morgan were very pressing with their Arguments to persuade me to enter into Religious Orders. Particularly the said Countess highly encouraged me thereto, by willing me, That if I would but follow my Studies, and make myself Capable of Advancement, I could not want Ecclesiastical preferment. Promising withal, to take care of me herself: and further saying, That she did not question but to get me made a Bishop in England by her Interest. For that upon the Restoration of the Romish Religion, there would be great occasion for Men of Parts, of whom to make Bishops, and to employ in the Management of the Affairs of the Church. This was a Course of Life which no way corresponded with my humour, altogether Martial: However, being allured by the Hopes of Preferment, and relying upon the Promises of my Lady, I resolved to submit myself to the persuasions of the Countess, who thereupon gave me Ten pounds to carry me to Douai. In order to this Religious Design, as I then thought it, I took Shipping for Newport; Where I was no sooner Landed, but I found myself presently in the embraces of two Friars, who upon Intelligence of my coming, were sent to meet me. They seemed to be very glad to see me, caressing and entertaining me with all the Kindness I could expect, all the way to Douai. Where being arrived, I was presently admitted into the Convent of Recollects, who are a sort of Franciscans, that pretend to a Purity above all the rest, and are therefore collected together to make that Profession. In this same Monastery I spent about Three Weeks; but instead of that Seraphic Piety, and Purity of Religion which I expected, observing nothing among those pretended Brethren, but Malice, Envy, Backbiting and Detraction of one another; and instead of refined Devotion, nothing but refined Hypocrisy, my Zeal grew cold, and I began to think of nothing more, than how to make my Escape. I observed their Nastiness, in the Ceremonious burial of their Lice. For the Purity of their Religion not admitting them to shift their Habits, once a Fortnight they make a great Fire, and then shake their Nasty garments over it, to the dismal consumption of Thousands and Ten Thousands, singing certain Psalms or Hymns over the Funeral Piles of their Filthy numerous Vermin. I observed their Hypocrisy, when they carried me to one of their Exercises, which they call Disciplining themselves. For the performance of which piece of severity, they betook themselves to a dark Gallery, and there stood with their clothes tucked up about their Middles, and their Lower parts all bare. Every one had a kind of Whip in his hand, which is composed of an Iron chain of about a foot long, with three other smaller chains branching from the bigger, well furnished with Fishhooks. But I observed they laid on with so much mildness, and so much favour to one another, as if it had been rather a Sport than a Penance. However, I at that time would not seem to take notice of their remissness, but looking upon it as my duty, gave my next Neighbour, an old Fat haunched Lay-Porker, a clawing Lash, as he did also to the Next to him; which put all the rest into a very great Disorder. Upon which I ran away to my Chamber, and locked myself in, not without some bodily fear of what might have been the reward of my pretended Mistake, had I stayed. But soon after the Father or Master of the Novitiates came to my Chamber, and bid me not be surprised at the sight of such a severe Penance, as being the effect of an extraordinary zeal to subjugate and mortify our Sins of the Flesh. Which would have been a very sour piece of Mortification indeed, had the punishment been as terrible as they made the World believe, by the terrible visage of their Instruments of Execution. Believing therefore that neither Hypocrisy, nor Nastiness were any Signs or Marks of True Religion, I resol'vd to make my Escape from those Dens of Lice and Dissimulation; which I did soon after, though not without great difficulty. For whether they suspected my Intentions or no, I cannot tell; but this I am sure of, that some few days before I got loose, one Father Cudworth, Guardian of the Monastery, told me, That if I did not continue with them, I should lose both my Life and my Friends: Adding farther, That the King, meaning his Majesty, should not last long, and that his Successor should be wholly for their purpose. And after my escape, meeting with Father Cross, the Provincial of the said Monks, he told me, That had he been at Douai, when I made my escape, I should never have come into England again. With such a mortal hatred they pursue all those that have had the Opportunity to have any knowledge of their vain and abominable Superstitions. Upon my Return into England I found my Entertainment very cold. For the Earl of Powis, and his Lady, together with all the rest who had encouraged me to betake myself to a Monastic Life, were become my utter Enemies, threatening to take away my Life, or at least to get my Brother to disinherit me. Which vast. piece of their Malice and Revenge they easily wrought upon my Brother to accomplish. Being thus left Friendless and destitute in England, I went over to Paris, where I had another Brother that was a Benedictine Monk in that City. At Paris I stayed a considerable time, and during my Residence there, came acquainted with one Father Clifford, who told me among other things relating to this Kingdom, That the Lord Stafford was a Person of that undoubted and extraordinary Zeal, that he would run the utmost hazards for the benefit and advantage of the Church of Rome; further saying, That there were a great many devout and zealous people in Staffordshire, that were Persons of Discretion, and such as were fit to be entrusted in the management of any Affair that tended to the Support of the Roman Catholic Faith. Another time, one Latham, a Priest, and Benedictine Monk, being upon his departure with Cardinal Howard for Rome, with great Confidence told me, That though the Retinue of the Cardinal were at that time but ordinary and slender, yet he did not doubt to see his Eminency return into England, with a Splendour befitting his degree, and dignifyed with the highest Characters that the Pope could bestow upon him. And that for his part, though he had been proffered to be made Prior of the Benedictines at Paris, he had refused it; rather choosing to follow the Cardinal's Fortunes, and to depend upon the Hopes of that preferment, which he was well assured he should obtain by the means and favour of the Cardinal. And indeed it was the general discourse among the Monks at Paris, especially the English, who should be an Abbot, and who a Prior, upon the sudden Restoration of the Catholic Religion in England. More than that, an Eminent Monk of the great Abbey of St. Germains declared in public, That the English were a very unhappy Nation, that had not a Man, who had the Courage to Restore Religion by taking away the Life of one Single Person. And that the World may be sensible, that there was no Degree in the Church of Rome that did not concern itself in the Grand Design, a Father of the Carthusians told me, That were he not obliged by the Vow of his Order, never to stir from his Convent, He himself, although he were not of the English Nation, would be the person that would undertake the Work, for the General Good of the Universal Church of God. One Mr. Rivers also, a Gentleman well known to many of this Nation, advised me to get the Recommendations of the Prior of the Benedictines at Paris, and of the Lord Thomas Somerset, who was a Canon of St. Peter's in Rome, then at Paris, with what other Recommendations I could get, and to hasten to Rome, by which means there was no question but I might get to be admitted into Cardinal Howard's Family, who would shortly be in great Authority in England; adding further, That had he not engaged himself to be Tutor to Sir Charles Shellies' Children, with whom he was then going for La Fleche, he would take the same course as he had proposed to myself; For that upon the Restoration of Religion, they who had taken the most pains, would be the best provided for. But these Arguments not prevailing, I was by my Brother persuaded to return into England; and in order to that Journey by my said Brother and the said Prior of the Benedictines, recommended to the acquaintance of the Lord Stafford, then at Paris, by whom about the latter end of Novemb. 1675. I was readily entertained, and being looked upon as a Gentleman, had the Honour of a Frequent and Free access to his Lordship. During my Attendance upon my Lord, which was about three Weeks, his Lordship having, as I am apt to believe, received some private Intimations from the Prior and my Brother, began very gradually with me, telling me in the first place, That being a Gentleman, who had been bred up to no Calling, and was now deserted by my Friends and Relations, I must inevitably fall into such ill Courses, as would bring me to some unhappy end. For the preventing whereof, it would be better for me to undertake an Action, wherein if I succeeded, it would make me happy in this World; or if I miscarried, would procure me an everlasting Crown in Heaven. Having thus raised my Expectations, at another time he added, That he had a piece of Service to propose to me, that would not only restore me to the good Opinion of my own Relations, but for ever oblige both them and their Posterity. As I was willing to embrace all Opportunities to advance my own Fortunes, so it may be certainly thought, that I was no less inquisitive, what piece of Service it was, that was expected from me. But my Lord Stafford, being unwilling presently to commit so great a discovery to my knowledge, would by no means open his Mind to me, but exacted from me, all the Imaginable Obligations to Secrecy, which I gave his Lordship in the most solemn manner he could possibly invent. Which being done, he again repeated to me the great Advantages that would accrue both to myself and the whole Catholic Cause, if I stood firm and prospered in what I was to undertake; and then told me in direct Terms, That I might make myself and the Nation happy, by taking away the Life of the King of England, who was a Heretic, and consequently a Rebel to God Almighty. This being a Proposal very surprising, I desired his Lordship to allow me some short time to consider of it, and promised withal to give him my answer at deep; where his Lordship at that time had signified his intentions to me to embark for England. Accordingly I went before to the place appointed: but my Lord altering his Journey, went with Count Grammont to Calais, and from thence sent word to me, expecting him at deep, to make haste for England, and to attend him at London. But then growing sensible of the Impiety of the Proposal made me, and well knowing that my answer would be nothing satisfactory to his Lordship, I resolved to go for England, and so to avoid all farther Importunities from his Lordship, by receiving any farther Obligations from Him, I entered into the French Service, and had the Honour to be admitted into the Duke of Monmouth's Regiment, by a particular Recommendation from his Grace, at the humble Request of my Worthy Friend Sir▪ Ed. straddling. Having spent some time in the French Army, I returned for England, and by the Kind favour of Philip Hoby Esq continued with him at his house at Neath Abbey in the County of Glamorgan, till the late Levies of Soldiers for Flanders, at which time I made haste away for London, and understanding the Lord Powis was not a little in the favour of his Royal Highness the Duke of York, I made my addresses to his Lordship, to recommend me to the Duke for an Employment, giving his Lordship an account of my Condition, and desiring him to believe, That though I could not conform to a Religious Life, yet I made no question but by my Services in the Field I should retreive the good will of his Lordship, and the rest of my Friends and Relations. His Lordship, with a seeming Compassion made answer, That I ought in the first place to implore the Heavenly Assistance; and that in order thereunto, I should go and make my Confession to the Earl of Castlemaine, who was then in my Lord's Chamber ready to say Mass. Accordingly I went and made my Confession in obedience to his Lordship's Directions. But notwithstanding my compliance in Spirituals, I was altogether neglected, as to those Temporal Favours which I daily sought by his Lordship's means. For which as I have just cause to suspect, I have great Reason to thank his Countess, who is so much a Romanist, as never to trust a Person whom she has once injured. Thus finding the Professors of the Romish Religion so full of Treachery, Malice, Hypocrisy and Revenge, I absolutely renounced all future hopes and dependencies upon it, and seriously resolved sincerely and heartily to conform to the Discipline of the Church of England. And I hope there is no true Protestant will have the worse opinion of Me, for listening to the Voice of Conscience, and choosing to follow the Light of Truth, because I was once a wanderer in the Byways of Popish Darkness. 'Tis not to be thought but that I must expect to be prosecuted and pursued by the Malice of their Tongues: For indeed it was a main endeavour of my former Friends and still unkind Relations, because I could not confine myself to one of their Cloisters, by exposing me to hardship and necessity, to precipitate me into evil Courses, that so I might become obnoxious to their Fury. But as I am one that know they can fix nothing upon me for Truth, so I value not their Scandals or Reproaches, from which I make no Question but to clear myself, when ever there shall be occasion. At the time of the Trial of William Viscount Stafford, when I was to give my Evidence, I was not a little concerned at first, not doubting but that all the Opposition in the World would be made against me, and that all the Scandals and Reproaches would be thrown upon me, that all the Craft of Papistical Equivocations could fix upon my shoulders; But on the other side, I was not a little encouraged, when I saw who the persons were that after so long a preparation were brought to make their appearance against me. The first was the Lord Powis' Butler, whose particular interest and dependence I leave to public Censure. The second a Gentleman of Grey's-Inn, who has often declared to the World his calamitous Condition, that he was so Pocky and so poor, that he was weary of his life, and for that reason provoked several people to cut his Throat, to the end he might be quit of his misery; but by the charity of a Gentleman who is Physician to the Lords in the Tower, he was patched up and supported till he was called to the Bar; by the credit whereof he married a Wife with a small Fortune, which is now almost spent. Now I leave it to all the World to judge, what such a man, unprincipled, would not do to gratify a Person that had preserved him from Starving, and to ingratiate himself with a Party, which he thought would be prevalent, and from which no doubt he had very large Promises, according to the usual custom of those People. My Brother appeared next, who declared that my Elder Brother gave me Seven pounds never to see me more; which Money he said I received, after I went from Douai; though in truth I never did. A very kind Brother to give, and certainly a very much injured Brother to be satisfied with such a small pittance of his future Expectations for the continuance of such a Mortal Separation. But 'tis no wonder, since the Difference in Religion engages Brother against Brother, that they who could prevail with my Elder Brother to disinherit me, could prevail with a Younger Brother to play the Fool in public, by appearing against me to so little purpose. However I believe he was deluded to it, and so I pardon him. The last that appeared against me, was my Lord Castlemaine's Steward, which was more than his Lord himself could do, and therefore a testimony of little value. He pretended, That for Three Years he had not been half a Week out of my Lord's Company; though upon examination it was found that he had mistaken Fifteen Months in his account. From all which we may make this Judgement, What a sort of People we have to deal with, and what difficulties we labour under, that we are not only required to give in Evidence upon Oath, but must be forced to prove by collateral Testimonies of our Lives and Conversations, that Truth is Truth; and that our Evidence must be cavilled at by those that bring such poor and pitiful Sons of reproach to confront us. Hoewever, it was my happiness, that my Circumstances were attested by several Persons of great Estates, and unquestionable Reputation. FINIS.