A true copy OF The Disputation held between Master Walker and a Jesuite, in the house of one Thomas Bates in Bishops Court in the Old Baily,  
Concerning The ecclesiastical Function.  
Printed in the year, 1641.   

A true Copy of a Disputation held between Mr. Walker and a Jesuit.  Jesuit. 
I Pray you what is the reason that the people in England would have no Bishops?  Mr. Walker. 
Were our Bishops one and the same with Presbyters, we should not seek to have them removed. It is those lordly hierarchical Prelates, which are instituted after the Popish order, those lofty tyrants that rule like the Gentiles over the people of God, these be the Bishops that the people of God are offended with.  Ies. 
If the Bishops should not govern the church, than the people would fall into many errors, and the Church would be full of schisms.  Wal. 
Do you think that they keep errors out of the Church? no they (as it is very apparent) have been the sole cause of the Popery, errors, schisms, and innovations, wherewith our Churches have been lately pestered.  Ies. 
You are mistaken, for they have received the power of the Holy Ghost, by which they are led and guided that they cannot err.  Wal. 
Upon what grounds do you conceive that they should have a greater measure of the Spirit of God than other pastors and Ministers?  Ies. 
They receive the Holy Ghost from succession, to which succession Christ hath promised to be with them to the end of the world, so that they cannot err.  Wal. 
How can you prove such a succession to belong to them, as brings the Holy Ghost with it to all without exception, to lead them that they cannot err?  Ies. 
Because they are successors to Christ and his Apostles, and you know that his Apostles could not err.  Wal. 
Did not Peter err when he was reproved by Christ to speak foolishly? did he not err when Christ said to him, Get thee behind me Satan, thou savourest not? Did he not err when he denied Christ? yea and forswore him too? Did not Thomas err when he thought it was not Christ that appeared to them?  Ies. 
They erred only in some particulars of frailty, which was incident to them as men, but these were but venial errors: they erred not in the discipline of the Church as they were Apostles.  Wal. 
Did not Judas err in discipline, when for thirty pieces of silver he betrayed Christ into the hands of the High Priests to be crucified?  Ies. 
I speak not of Judas, for his bishopric was taken from h●m, and given to another, I speak of the rest of the Apostles.  Wal. 
If part of the apostolical function be secluded from the rest, whence then do you prove the government of Bishops to be thus endued by succession from the Apostles?  Ies. 
Because as the Apostles taught nothing dissonant from the truth of God's word, being directed thereunto by the Holy Ghost: so the Bishops their successors do the like.  Wal. 
That doth not follow: for the Apostles and our Prelates are not all one and the same office: for the Apostles were the disciples of Christ, but the Prelates are the limbs of Antichrist.  Ies. 
Peter the Apostle was Bishop of Rome, whose See hath been held by succeeding Bishops unto this day.  Wal. 
Peter was no more tied to Rome then to other Churches, for that was contrary to Christ's command, who commanded both him and the rest to preach to all Nations.  Ies. 
The Bishop of Rome is in every respect a true successor unto Peter. The power of ecclesiastical jurisdiction, in censuring, in Constitutions, Decrees, &c. is derived from the Apostle S. Peter, to the Bishop of Rome, and from him to all other Bishops.  Wal 
Christ gave not the jurisdiction to one particular Apostle alone, that the rest should have it by succession from him, but they all received it from Christ: neither hath the Bishop of Rome any succeeding authority from them above others.  Ies. 
This succession is of such consequence, that should it cease, and there should be no Bishops, there could be no lawful admittance of any into the ecclesiastical function, for ordination cannot be without the Bishops.  Wal. 
Can you deny that that means whereby men are kept, and maintained, and upheld in their ecclesiastical offices, is the beginning and author thereof: But by the Spirit of God are ecclesiastical Officers prescribed in their office and ministry.  
Ergo, The Pastors and Elders which were ordained even by the Apostles themselves, receive not their power and jurisdiction from the Apostles by succession, but from the Lord: much less hath the Pope right to do it, or any Bishop in the world from himself; for only Christ hath authority to prefer to the government of the Church.  Ies. 
In the institution by Bishops the power of the Holy Ghost is received, that God directeth them that they shall be able to preserve the Church from error, which is the chief end of the ministry.  Wal. 
Is the Church preserved from error by those that teach the people to be treacherous to their Kings and Princes, and to slay the Lord's anointed: the Lord deliver our Church from such errors.  Ies. 
The Bishop of Rome doth not allow of it.  Wal. 
Did not Pope Innocentius the fourth hire his bastard son Manfredus to poison the Emperor Frederick; and Sixtus the 5. made an oration in praise and commendation of the friar's faith which murdered Henry 3. King of France.  Ies. 
These are scandalous aspersions, such I do not believe to be true.  Wal. 
What say you then to the fightings of the Papists in Ireland against the Queen, the Spanish Invasion, the Gunpowder treason, that of James Clement against the King of France, &c.  Ies. 
The Bishop of Rome never allowed of any of these, they had neither counsel nor consent from him.  Wal. 
It is well enough known to the contrary; but to come nearer to you, do you think it is not an error for the Pope to take upon him to curse and excommunicate Kings and Princes at his pleasure?  Ies. 
Such who have vowed to him allegiance he hath power to excommunicate: as for such who have not, they are of another Church.  Wal. 
Therefore the Emperor Frederick was so wise to make a Law, that if a Bishop were found to attempt any thing against the public quiet, that he should live an hundred miles off from that City or place which he had disturbed. And it were to be wished that all such disturbers of the peace and quiet of this our Nation, were sent not only an hundred, but a thousand miles off.  Ies. 
Why do you abuse those Bishops that are of so noble and honourable a function? Christ the head of the Church hath placed Bishops in his own stead, giving them that power which himself received of his Father, insomuch that there is no office or degree which Christ received from his Father, but he doth communicate the same to them.  Wal. 
Christ is our Mediator, will you say that the Prelates are our mediators?  Ies. 
As Christ is our mediator, paying to his Father the ransom, so are they Priests and mediators by prayer.  Wal. 
I deny your tenant, it is no better than blasphemy; for there is only one mediator between God and man, the man Christ Jesus, as Paul saith, 1 Tim. 2. 5.  Ies. 
They are our mediators, I do not say as authors themselves of any benefit to us, but obtaining through Christ and his merits whatsoever by them is obtained for us.  Wal. 
If Christ hath not purchased what is obtained for us without their mediation, then were Christ an imperfect mediator: but Christ is a perfect mediator, even he that hath trod the winepress alone, and what is obtained is only from him, and by him alone.  
FINIS.