¶ A pleasant Dialogue, between a Lady called Listra, and a Pilgrim. Concerning the government and common weal of the great province of Crangalor. 1579. ❧ Imprinted at London by John Charlewood, dwelling in Barbican at the sign of the half Egle and Key. ❧ To the Worshipful, Master Edward Diar, Esquire: Listra wisheth prosperity. I judge worshipful sir, that you will wonder how I a stranger, presume to writ this little dialogue to your Worship: Nay rather you will marvel, how also I writ in the English tongue. But to make plain these causes, first I say, although I devil so far from your native soil, yet by travelers I have heard of your parentage & virtuous mind touching the public weal of your Country, and this is the cause wherefore I offer this Pilgrims talk unto your Worship, and where I writ in your own language, you shall understand, that I proceed out of a noble house and lineage, where my dear and loving parents, wished: yea and also procured that I might have understanding in foreign languages, among the which I chiefly desired to speak and writ the English tongue. wherefore I crave of your worship, to receive this Pamphlet, and to pardon my base style in your language, considering I am a stranger, and so doing, my desire shallbe fully satisfied, and God grant your gentle heart's desire. Your loving friend Listra, of Corinth. ❧ The Dialogue. IT fortuned, the Lady Listra, coming from her sumptuous house in the Country and going toward Corinth, accompanied with two proper young Gentlemen her Pages, she by chance, overtook a poor Pilgrim, clothed with a long vesture of Sackcloth, and an upper garment of the same, with a large Felt Hat on his head: this Pilgrim was a man well grown in years, as appeared, by his white head and long beard, unto whom the Lady sayeth as followeth. Lady. Well overtaken, father Pilgrim, and in good time. Pilgrim. Good Madam you are most heartily welcome. L. Father I pray you, whether do you journey this way. P. Forsooth Madam now God willing I mean to pass to Corinth, and from thence into Asia Maior. L. I perceive your Pilgrimage hath been long, but when mean you to cease and take your rest. P Madam when my body is laid in Grave. For truly, all mankind hath but a pilgrimage in this world: yea although they live at home in their native Country and delectable houses, an end they must have of their pilgrimage. But I and such other poor Pilgrims do often see by Land and Sea, the admirable works of the almighty. The which to tell when I come home, the foolish will hold me for a liar: yet I do daily more and more, praise God, who is so great, and this is my only contentation L. But tell me father Pilgrim go you now to visit any monument of the Goddess Flora, here in Corinth. P. No Madam I care not forsuch relics. For my friend a Philosopher warned me by the way auldhame, saying. Non licet omnibus adicere Corinthum: yea also he wished me not to buy repentance too dear, among Dame Flora's dames. L. Well father, do you mean to abide here any long season? P. Not longer Madam than I may amend my Shoes, Hose, and also provide other furniture for my Scrip and Bottle. L. I pray you good father hold me not for importunate, to demand of you a question or two. P. Rather Madam you seem so wise, that I receive pleasure by your communication: therefore good Madam say on. L. I will not require of you to signify unto me the laws, customs, rites, ceremonies, and straying usages of the Hethites, among whom you have travailed, for I know the same to be horrible and abominable. But tell me I pray you, have you been among the Christians in East India. P. Yea Madam I abode a certain time, in the famous City called Crangalor, which standeth situated near the pleasant River of Guadalquiver. This City is not only adorned with beauty of sumptuous Temples, Towers & costly Houses, pleasant Orchards, & sweet Gardens: but chiefly decked with notable government and celestial justice. L. Hath this Country a king or a Prince for chief Lord and Ruler. P. A Prince forsooth called Bassa Haily. L. Then I pray you tell what reverence doth those subjects to their Prince. P. O Madam truly exceeding great. But first they say yea and steadfastly believe, that their Prince, is the only Deputy and Lutenaunt of God himself within his dominions, to execute and maintain justice, yea such a one, that is not noted of any great crime, for say they God is pure and holy, even so aught his Deputy to be in maintaining right and justice. So that the subjects of this Prince, are wonderful obedient, with life and goods, and other loyal service. L. Then must needs follow, that the nobility are virtuous and prudent. P. Yea Madam, as members so necessary to so godly a Prince, they are decked with humble hearts, and far from all corruption. L. The clergy than should seem, to live according to the Gospel. P. O Madam I cannot let, but highly commend the clergy, for the richest Bishops & Prelates are not trimmed in silks, but clothed in honest decet attire. These men name themselves the Criers of God, and Steward of the poor. For say they even as the laws of the Prince are Proclaimed, through his dominions to the intent his subjects should know his will, even so say they, are we the Criers of God to proclaim, preach and set forth the laws of the everlasting God, as well in teaching, as in our living & behaviour: for if we do not so say they, the Prophet telleth us that the blood of our flock shallbe demanded at our hands. L. But why do they go so plain apparelled, being Lords and of great calling? P. I of myself Madam, will say no more than I have hard at their own mouths. They say that Christ willed his holy apostles, to leave their Nets and other worldly goods, and follow him, who in all the time, that his sacred Majesty abode upon earth, had never any great bodily 〈◊〉: but continually like a good Shepherd went from valley to valley, from hill to hill, from pasture to pasture, to seek his lost Sheep, and being found, brought them home upon his blessed shoulders, to his herd and sheepfold, calling always sinners to repentance: so say they we being his disciples must every one of us take up his own Cross and follow him. L. Way them how can they dispend the great profit and revenues of their bishoprics and other benefices. P. Why Madam do you marvel at that, Then hearken I pray you. These good Prelates do weekly go unto the common jail, where a great number of prisoners are, some for debt, and some for other offence, and there do they preach the word of God among them, persuading them to repentance and to forsake their evil living, they do not only in this sort comfort the poor afflicted prisoners, but also do according to need, cloth them which want clothing: yea and three times in the year, at the principal feasts, all such prisoners which lie in prison for the sum of twenty Marks or under, these good religious men, do pay the debt, and set the poor at liberty with great admonishion, how to flee from falling into danger again. This lively work of faith springeth not alone in them, but also the poor Orphans and Maidens, which want dowries for marriage, are provided out of their house of Mercy, yea every sort of poor people are well remembered among them. And in this sort say they we are Steward of the poor according to Christ his commandment. L. Why then they deal not in Vserye, or other like Merchandise. P. O not good Madam those wicked vices, are far from them, for truly I may boldly say, that at the years end, all their great revenues are consumed, in order aforesaid. L. And is there no other sort of religious persons, within the dominion of Crangalor? P. Yes Madam, there is an other sort of Contemplatives, who liveth by the labour of their hands, in the Mountains, and these are silkweavers, which live only upon that occupation, and at certain times do occupy themselves in prayer, calling upon the name of jesus. L. Truly father Pilgrim I do rejoice to hear of such virtuous and religious men, who are occupied day and night in the law of God, for I would scarcely have believed that any such had lived on earth, well good father proceed to the Ministers of the Law. P. I I should not seem unto you good Madam tedious: I would say some what of their behavoour. L. Nay rather you do me pleasure, and I give you most hearty thanks. P. first their judges are excellent learned men, & such as are chosen out of the University, by the Prince's Counsel, for their excellency, gravity and learning. These grave judges have no kind offees, for seals or reknowledging of writings, or such like, but are maintained with reasonable stipend at the Prince's cost. L. Why then there are no juries of twelve men to try the right of any? P. Alas not Madam would you wish twelve simple men, without learning to decide the doubtful and hard cases in law: not, God forbidden. L. Will not those judges now and than take bribes? P. No Madam, for the punishment is grievous for such an offence: yea and the Prince to avoid that wickedness, doth yearly make privy inquiry of the administration of justice, to gratify the good judges and to punish the wicked. But yet I do remember of one judge, that took a Goose stuffed with gold for a bribe. But when the case was known to the Prince, he commanded the judges leg to be sawen off, with a wooden saw, in the open Market place. And when the execution was done, the Prince caused the judge to come before him, saying unto him: sirrah is the stuffing of a Goose good meat, but the judge answered not one word. Well quoth the Prince receive your office again, and look well what meat you eat: who ruled afterward exceeding well. The example whereof did so terrify, that bribes were clean banished. L. Now assuredly, this Prince may welbe called the Deputy of God, but sithence the judges are so upright in justice, than what say you to the Counsellors and other ministers of the law? P. I must needs commend them Madam, for there the good Lawyers have very fair and large studies, and beset with many fair Chairs, so that the client when he cometh is commanded to sit him down in one of those chairs, and to put on his bonnet. Then he openeth his case, if it appear a just and lawful suit: then the said Lawyer deviseth his Plea, and his Clerk penneth the same, with the lines near together, for they know not what great spaces betwixt lines after eight pence a sheet, meaneth. Now the Plea being drawn, and contain a large sheet of paper, written as aforesaid, the Client payeth to his Lawyer two shillings and three pence for the Clerk, wherewith they are well satisfied. But if the cause appeareth not good and just, than the Lawyer persuadeth the party, not to deal any further: and so always wrong is thrust out of the doors. These Lawyers abhor covetousness, and know not what Golden Angels mean. The judges sit daily through the year in judgement, the Festival days excepted, so that there is no issue or trial upon one point or branch of a matter, but rather by those learned judges, a whole matter is ended at once, which is a good and godly way. The Counsellors in Law, sit on each side of the judges: I mean not on the same bench where the judges sit, but rather on each side of the judicial place, and the judges at the upper end. So there is no strife who shall come to the Bar: But when any ple is related. Then it is lawful for every Lawyer to exclaim the meaning of the words on his clients behalf: but with very few words. L. But may not the party aggrieved, appeal of any sentence? P. Yes, if the cause amount above the sum of one hundred pound, the party aggrieved may appeal to the Prince's Counsel: where always two singular Counsellors attendeth such causes, even as a Chancery to mitigate extremity of Law. L. Then how doth the poor folk obtain justice against the rich and mighty. P. O Madam wonderful well. For the poor shall have rather more favour than the rich, it is so Madam that the most famous learned man within the precynt of the whole City, he I say is appointed for Advocate of the poor, and hath a great stipend of the Citizens for his pains. And think you Madam that he is the basest office in a Common weal? Not: for this advocate is had in greatest honour, next unto the Prince's Council, & chief judges. And again when the complaint of the poor cometh before the judges in the judicial Hall, then saith the Attorney of the poor, who hath also his wages of the Citizens. My Lords, it may please you to hear a poor man's cause. This voice is no sooner heard, when the judges stayeth all matters, except it touch the estate, and incontinent the poor man ssute is dispatched: for if it should not be so, than many times would it happen, as once a suit depending between a poor Apothecary and a Butcher, for when their Plea is determined by the inferior judge: the Apothecary carried privily to the judge a little Pot of Conserua, beseeching him to remember his matter against the butcher. The judge took it and said he would provide justice. But when the Butcher heard of the presenting of this bribe, he went and killed a good fat Hog and brought it to the judge, requesting his favour against the Apothecary: the judge also received it, and bade him departed. It so fell out, that the sentence passed on the Butcher's side. But when the poor Apothecary had notice thereof, he came railing to the justice house, saying to the judge: sir how chanced you remembered not both my right & pot of Conserua. Yes quoth the judge, I remember them both, but as for your Conserua, there came a Hog & threw down your pot, ye & spilled it, so that I never found any sweetness therein. Marry sir quoth the Apothecary a murrain and a pestilence take such a Hog that spilled both my justice and Conserua. So that Madam I tell you this merry tale, to the end that you may know how in this happy Land, it prevaileth not for the rich to say I have a fat purse: for why, the good judges, hath so great a fear of God and the Prince, that no corruption can avail. And certainly the godly Divines, are a great cause thereof, for they will not let to tell all estates their faults, by some honest means: by reason whereof, they do well know, that they themselves, shall come to judgement, and be judged, so that according to the opinion of S. jerom, they have daily the sound of the Trumpet in their ears, that shall call to judgement. And this is the principal cause, that they do live in the fear of God, and are blessed. L. I do most highly praise this godly rule and order. But how are Criminal matters decided. P. Forsooth Madam the judges which have the charge of Criminal matters, do likewise sit all the whole year in the judicial place: but as I said before, festival days excepted. These judges use great policy to search out the troth, against any accused of crime, and the troth manifestly known, the offence is corrected with grievous punishment: but otherwise they have great fear of shedding innocent blood, by reason whereof every prisoner is permitted to have an advocate, & make exceptions against his accusers. And when any offender is condemned to suffer pains of death, he hath three days respite to repent his former life, they also have good men that never leaveth persuading them earnestly to repent, and only to stick unto the mercy of our Lord jesus. Truly Madam I have seen some die, with such penitent & humble hearts, that any good Christian would have commended their constant faith. L. Sure, this is a charitable act. P. I must needs confess Madam, that the people in this Country are fully persuaded, that there are but two ways of eternity, the one leadeth unto perpetual joy and everlasting, felicity, and the other to everlasting, horrible and unquenchable hell fire, the which both places, shall have no end, whilst God is God, and that is infinite. L. The name of jesus be praised for such a Country and people. P. Also Madam whilst I abode in Crangalor, I saw three persons punished, the one was a woman, and she was convicted of Sorcery & Witchcraft, but no hurt done by her to either man or beast, approved: yet for her dealing in that art, she was condemned. The execution was, she was set upon an Ass, her body naked unto her Navel, and anointed all over with Honey, the which was beset full of small Feathers of Down, with a Mitre on her head, of a yard long, and in this sort she road about the streets accustomed, with a Trumpet blown before her, and a Crier manifesting her offence. An other was punished for perjury, this man road likewise upon an Ass, about the accustomed streets: but not naked. And in the Market place, there was a Barber attending for him, with his Instruments, and there he was foreced to open his mouth, and all his teeth being accounted, the Barber drew out every fifth tooth, in such sort Madam, that neither money, nor friendship can redeem any punishment in that Country. The third person that I saw punished, was a wittol and he I say, road upon an Ass about the said streets, with a Hearts horn on his head full of small Bells, and his wife road altar whipping him, and then followed the hangman, whipping them both. L. O most happy Land, where vice is so punished. But I pray you say father the poor Prisoners that are imprisoned for debt, are they put in irons? P. No Madam, for there they hold opinion, that none aught to were Irons, but such as hath committed odious crimes, for otherwise say they the jail is no other thing but only a safe custody. L. Yet they pay fees for their Irons. P. Alas Madam God forbidden: for think you, that it were a just cause, that a poor man, who hath fallen into debt by sundry mishaps, should now in prison be punished with fees of Irons, and incur into a new debt: nay they hold such usage for abominable extortion, and a thing odious in the sight of God. L. But yet I think they pay eighteen pence a day for their meat, and a groat for their bead, or at the lest twelve pence a day, and a groat for their bead. P. That also Madam is holden for an abominable use. But troth it is that any Prisoner for debt, may bring his bead, his meat and drink from whence he wil And if he be so poor that he hath nothing wherewith to maintain himself. Then the house of charity provided for such a one. L. What fees hath the jailer then? P. Forsooth six pence for every Prisoner, and also a yearly stipend of the Citizens, sufficient to maintain an honest man. L. I have father Pilgrim thoroughly understood all your talk. But now I pray you how doth the Notaries, Skriveners, and such like officers use themselves. P. Madam I must also commend their usage: for why you shall understand, that every Notary, Scrivener or such like officer, concerning either temporal or ecclesiastical affairs have their offices from the Prince, for a certain sum of money under the Prince's Seal: the which offices each one doth enjoy for term of life, except he make resignation thereof to his son, or some other friend, fifteen days or more before his death and for want of such resignation the ofcie cometh again to the Prince: but in effect, ever such officer giveth sufficient Sureties to the Prince, for the true and faithful executing of his office, by mean where of all false writings, and abominable deceits are utterly banished. Moore ever every such Notary or Scrivener hath his books of Records, wherein the parties obliged doth set their firmes and seals, with two or three witnesses, which testify that they do know, that the parties so obliged, are the very self same men, to avoid all collusion. This done the Scrivener under his firm and sign, giveth the party creaditor the copy of the Bond, which is available, and pleadeable in Law: the cause hereof is to avoid all subtutie, for many times poor men by some sinister mean or casualty, hath his writings stolen, enbesseled, burned, or lost: yet were it not just, that those men should loose their right and title. In consideration whereof the original matters remaineth alive in the said Scriveners books, in order aforesaid. Every Obligation containeth a sheet of Paper, near written, for the which the Scrivener is to have six pence and no more, and other six pence for the Copy if the party will have it. But this must I say unto you Madam the cause of this godly government is, that once in two or three years, the Prince sendeth secret visitors: who taketh all these Scriveners or Notaries Recorde's into their power, and command to Proclaim through the City, that if any person or persons, know any falsehood in the said Officers, concerning their Offices, that then they come and manifest the same: and the offence or offences known, some hath their hands cut off, other some deprived from their offices, and others condemned to the Galley for slaves: yea the Law is that if any writing chance to be enterlyned, then must the Scrivener recite the same words at the foot of the writing, before the party or parties seal thereto. L. But is this order throughout all the Prince's dominions, in Cities, Viliages, and Towns? P. Yea truly Madam, and all other writings of no effect, except some Bills or writing made in extreme necessity, which are afterward recknowleged before the judge, or else remain of none effect. L. This godly order must needs be profitable to the Prince. P. Nay Madam much more profitable I say to the common weal, for the avoiding of many brabbling and wicked suits attempted in law. L. Father Pilgrim, I am well satisfied in these points. But how doth majors or other governors of great Cities behave themselves? P. O Madam exceeding well. For each ruler of a famous City delighteth not in gluttony, and Belly cheer, but rather is very vigilant and careful for the benefit of the City: he I say, cometh not upon days appointed, to visit the Bakers and other Victuallers, but rather followeth the order that Christ hath prescribed, which is how his coming shallbe when he is not looked for: even so doth this good Ruler of Crangalor, come at such times to visit the Citizens, that some doth rejoice, but others do tremble at his sudden coming, ye in the night season when others sleep at quiet rest, he wandereth round about the City, personally in all blind lanes, and solitary places, to see what watch is kept, to hearken for bibbers and drunkards, to search out Hoores, and whoremongers, and to examine suspicious guests. I am sure Madam that the Governor of Crangalor, hath expulsed a number of such vicious persons, out of that City, yea it seemeth now a terrenall paradise: but wots you what is the cause of this? Forsooth at the time of the term of expiration of the said governors charge, the Prince appointeth a new Governor, who commandeth the former Governor and all his officers, to keep their own houses as prisoners for the space of forty days: and then proclaimeth throughout the City, that if any person or persons, poor or rich, can say any extortion, bribes, or other offence, against the said Governor or Officers, that then they come and complain, and shall have present remedy and satisfaction. But when those forty days are expired, and no offence found: O what great Honour receiveth such a governor: yea and how highly is he esteemed of his Prince? L. Truly father Pilgrim that is a blessed Land: but what can you say of all such officers, which hath the receipt and dealings about the Prince's revenues? P. Once in three year Madam secret enquyrye is made of their dealings, and their books narrowly searched, so that the Prince cannot be deceived. L. O father Pilgrim, the sun declineth apace, and loath I am to leave your godly conversation: but yet I pray you say, how doth women behave themselves in that country. P. Very honest and virtuous they are Madam. For in that City, you shall not see neither Wives, nor Maids with hand Baskets, or otherwise wander about the City, because the Husbands and their men slaves do prepare all necessaries, for their houses and Families: so that the women stray not abroad, except on the Sabbath day, or other Festival days, when they go to the Temple, or else when they go abroad in their Husband's company to recreate themselves: for otherwise the husbands fear that they should have some evil wares brought home in those hand baskets. L. I have yet many other things to inquire of you: but I pray you tell me, have you been at any time in England? P. Never but once Madam, and then I came to the famous City of London, to take Shipping into Scythia. L. But that Land? P. Forsooth Madam at that time Reigned, and I hope yet doth, a virtuous Maiden Queen, whose beauty and rare virtues, whose wisdom and singular learning: yea her wondered knowledge in sundry languages: the like, I never heard nor knew in in any part of the world where I have travailed into: And yet have I been in some part of Asia, in some part of America, and in some part of Europia. L. This is believe me the strangest thing that as yet you have told me. God preserve her, and if I were as young as I have been, I would gladly go see so gracious a Lady and Maiden Queen. But I perceive considering you went that way to take Shipping into the Land of Scythia, you had no leisure to inquire of the commodity of that Land. P. Not truly Madam, time would not permit me: for I was no sooner come to London, but the ships were ready to hoist up sails and departed. L. I fear father Pilgrim, the shutting in of Corinth Gates, because night approacheth on so fast: Wherefore good father, let us now make the more haste, and sith you are a stranger here, you shall abide this night with me, with such poor cheer as I may make you. P. God reward you good Madam, I will not refuse your gentle offer. Now the Lady Listra, and the Pilgrim enter into Corinth, where the Pilgrim was well entertained and lodged: yea and at his departure from thence, the Lady gave him spending money, for his journey, with faithful promise made by the Pilgrim at his return, to manifest unto that Lady, all straying things, that he should hear or see in his pretended journey. FINIS. Book. Pilgrim for thy telling troth, Perhaps thou shalt be shent: In recompense of all thy toil, And time so godly spent. Pilgrim. WHat care I for recompense, For profit or for gain: The God that gave me fortitude, Will well reward my pain. FINIS. T. N.