A book of Christian Questions and answers. Wherein are set forth the chief points of the Chris●●●●●●ligion in manner of an ●…dgment. A work right necessary and profitable for all such as seal have to deal with the captious quarelinges of the wrangling adversaries of God's truth. Written in Latin by the learned clerk Theodore Beza Vezelius, and newly translated into English by Arthur Golding. Imprinted at London, by William How, for Abraham veal, dwelling in Paul's Church yard at the sign of the Lamb. Ano. 1574. ¶ To the Right honourable and his singular good Lord Henry Earl of Huntingdon, Baron Hastinges, Knight of the most noble order of the Garter etc. Arthur Golding wisheth abundance of God's grace, increase of honour, and long continuance of life in health and prosperity. MY very good Lord, it is daily and in manner commonly to beseene, (& I pray God that our unthankfulness 'cause us no more to feel it) that the perverse & through settled Papists, the professed enemies of God & all goodness, linking themselves in league with worldlings, Epicures, Athiestes', & Neuters, birds of their own brood, do even yet after so great light of the Gospel and so manifest conviction of their Gross errors, still boldly persist in their wilful wickedness: not only hardening their own stubborn hearts against the apparent truth, but also (as much as in them lieth) stealing away the kie of knowledge from others that would feign enter into the kingdom of heaven if they letted them not & casting stumbling blocks in the ways of the weak & uncircumspect, of whose souls they make merchandise by their deceivable and invenimed speech. But certesse although long impunity have made them over bold, both to prate & to Practise, in manner what they list: ●…et not withstanding for as much as the general brightness of Christ's Gospel discovereth their grosser sort of dealings unto mostmen: they assault us not now so much with open & manifest untruths, (which were ordinary weapons of their warfare when they had the sword of sovereignty and the law of cruelty in their own hand) as with secret invasions of sophistical reasons and crabbed questions, specially where they find hope of victory, by means of other man's simplicity & want of learning to withstand them. And truly in that art, no folk are so cunning, as the children of darkness. For worldly wisdom having bend herself to maintain error, is a fruitful mother of all sorts of quiddities: and the old serpent is both sly and unslothfull in transforming himself and his imps into all shapes to do mischief. For as much therefore as there be many godly and welminded people who having not yet mounted above the short reach of natural reason, do still measure God's mysteries (howbecit with a single meaning mind) by their slender capacity of their small understanding, dealing in likewise as if a man that were iorneying by the first dawning of the day should trip his foot against some stone which he would eschew at the coming of the clear and open light: whose faith is often times shaken, yea and now and then crazed also, either by such as standing upon the reputation of their own skill, hunt for vainglory by russhinge unadvisedly into the discourse of God's deepest mysteries, which aught not to be spoken of without great reverence and modesty: or by such as being wilfully blind, diffame the things that they know not: or by such as being given up too a hardened mind, blaspheme the known truth through malicious spitefulnes: or by such as being given wholly to their belly & their bed, cannot abide to hecre of any thing that might make them goodmen: or else by such as have learned in Lucian's school to scoff at all things that like not their fantastical folly: too the intent that the godly people might always have at hand, as well wherewith to satisfy themselves and other well disposed people in doubtful cases, as also to stop the slanderous mouths of the quarelinge adversaries, or at leastwise wherewith to answer their captious cavelinges in the chief points of our religion: I have translaied this Christian treatise of the learned writer Theodore Beza, who by a certain modest questioning & answering there unto, doth in dialogwise briefly set forth unto us the true knowing of God & ourselves, & the right use and end of the same. For taking his beginning at the intent of our creation, he declareth that God must be worshipped and served in none otherwise, than he himself hath taught us by his word written. The authority whereof being avouched by many profess, he setteth down what the same teacheth us to believe, concerning the Godhead & the three people thereof. Then showing us what we aught to consider chiefly in God he unfoldeth the mystery of the union of the two natures in the one person of Christ, (whereby he confuteth the heresy of the Manichees,) and layeth forth the order of our salvation by Christ's incarnation, death, resurrection and Ascension. Here upon he taketh occasion to show the manner of Christ's being present & absent, and thereby condemneth the errors of popish transubstantiation, & of the ubiquity or every where being of Christ's manhood maintained by Brentius and certain others. After this he passeth forth to Christ's mediation & intercession, where he disproveth the heresy of Arrius, the opinion of surmising three Gods, the dotages of Samosatene, & the forgeries of the Papists in praying unto saints. Fron thence he descendeth to the last judgement: and answering by the way to an objection of the foreiudgement that each several person receiveth at his departure out of this life, he proceedeth to the general rising again of the flesh, & to the rewards of the godly, & the punishment of the wicked: whereby he taketh occasion too inquire of the way to eternal life, which is Christ taken hold on by faith. There showeth he what faith is and whence it cometh: and so discoursinge largely of man's corruption, he disproveth the Pelagians freewyll, & declareth in what wise man's natural will worketh together with Gods preventinge grace, and how the continuance of God's graces insewinge, is the cause of the effectual working of the former graces, whereby he utterly overthroweth the merit or deserving of men's own works. Afterwards having first showed the manner of the spreading of original sin into all mankind: he returns to the remedy thereof by being greffed into Christ: the manner whereof he describeth at large. and there again confuteth the heresy of Transubstantiation, and declareth faith to be the free gift of god through christ by whom we obtain wisdom, Rightuosnes, Holiness, and Redemption, which are the fruits of being greffed into him: by the benefit whereof we begin also in part to understand aright, to will aright, and to work a right, which is as much as to live after the spirit. In the laying forth of these things, he rippeth up the feebleness of man's natural reason, & washeth away the excuse of his unableness to fulfil God's law because he cannot but sin, and disfeateth him of challendging any piece of righteousness to himself. Here upon is brought in an exposition of the rewarding or recompencinge of good works, together with a declaration from whence they springe, and of the difference in punishments and rewards By occasion whereof he disproveth the fond objection of such as hold opinion that Christ hath abolished but the merits of the ceremonial la we, and defaceth the works of Papistical preparation, showing wherefore works be called good. And so he concludeth that all things needful to salvation, are found in Christ alone to whom we cleave by faith, so as there is no damnation for them that be greffed in Christ: and that the same knowledge is the only knowledge of Salvation, and that the said faith or knowledge is the free gifie of God, put into us by God's mere grace, and not bread in us by nature, or purchased by our own power or deserving. By this means he leadeth us to the headspringes of Gods eternal providence and predestination: in the discourse whereof, after he hath answered to all objections, and modestly and learnedly showed what a Christian man aught to think or speak in that behalf with reverence of God's majesty: last of all, he setteth forth a godly and necessary remedy, against the perilous temptation of particular predestination, for such as are desirous to know whither they be ordained to salvation or no. And thus your L. Wisdom perceiveth that although this book be but small in volume: yet containeth it right profound mysteries: and great store of matter very necessary to be perfectly known, and to be had at the finger's ends of all men, specially which shall have occasion to encounter with the imps of the old serpent, namely with the adders brood of the Romish Antichrist, & with the children of this world, who be much more politic, wily and forecasting in their kind, than the children of light be. Wherefore I thought it not an unmeet piece of work whereby to testify some manner of remembrance of your L▪ most honourable courtesy to wards me: according whereunto it may please you too give this my labour leave to pass forth under your favourable acceptation, as a handsel of some greater work her after too the more benefit of my native country, and the further commendation of your L. goodness who are right well known to be an earnest favourer of God's glory and a diligent furtherer of the welfare of his church written at London the. 12. of june. 1572. Your good Lordships most humble to command Arthur Golding. A book of christian questions and answers. Question. WHo hath set us in this world? Answer. God, of his own singular goodness. Quest. To what end. Ans. To the end that we should serve him: and that he should be glorified by giving eternal life unto us. Quest. Which is the way to worship him a right, and consequently to attaives eternal life, and to glorify him due. Ans. To know and acknowledge him Rom. 1. 21. john. 17. 3 after the same manner that he hath disclosed himself unto us in his word. Quest. What callest thou the word of God. Ans. That which the Prophets and God's word Ephe. 2. 20. Apostles have received by god's spirit, and committed to writing: which book we term by the name of the old and new Testament. Quest. Who then is the author of those books? Ans. God himself. And the writers or Rom. 10. 8 2. tim. 3. 16 2. Pet. 1. 20. penners thereof were the Prophets and Apostles. Quest. How knowest thou that? Acts. 2. 11. 1. Cor. 1. 17 18. 19 20 21. 22. 23. 24. Luke. 21. 15 Acts. 6. 10 john 5. 30 Acts. 17. 11 2. Cor. 4. 3 Ans. The things themselves that are treated of those in writings: the majesty of god shining forth in that homelynesse of speech: the heavenly pureness and singular holiness that uttereth itself every where in them: the most sure steadfastness of the principles whereupon that doctrine is grounded: and the laying together of the foresaying & of their fallings out: do enough and more then enough show these writings to be altogether divine and heavenly, & that the same is the most perfect doctrine of truth, though all the world should say never so much to the contrary. To the confirmation hereof maketh also the orderly success of things done, and the record of godly men delivered from hand to hand. And john. 6. 45 Acts. 13. 48 Phil. 1. 29 Acts. ●6. 14 that I know these things in such wise, as I fully agreed to matters which men are wont partly to despise and laugh to scorn, and partly so to embrace, as yet notwithstanding they wot not at all what they believe: I impute it wholly to the holy Ghost, who hath opened my heart that I might both here and understand these secrets. 2 tim. 3. 17. Quest. Is all that we must believe to salvation, comprehended in those writing? Ans. Altogether. Quest. What is it then that the writings of the prophets and Apostles do teach us chiefly to believe concerning God himself? Ans. That the Essence of God is one, Being or substance Deut. 6. 4. Mat. 28. 19 what the essence or substance of god is. and the people three: the father, the sun and the holy Ghost. Quest. What meanest thou by Essence? An. I mean the nature that is common to those three people. Quest. What meanest thou by people? Ans. I mean the very parties themselves what the people of the godhead be. that have their being in that nature. Quest. These three people then, are they three gods: like as there be so many men, as there be people endued with humane nature? Ans. Not, not so. For these three several people, are all but one self same God. Quest. Why so? Ans. For in as much as gods Essence is The distinction of the people in the godhead most single, infinite, and unable to be parted: therefore these three parsons are not separated one from another, but only distinguished: so as the father is not the son or the holy Ghost, but the father only: nor the son the father or the holy Ghost, but the son only: nor the holy Ghost the father or the son, but the holy Ghost only: and yet all those three several people be one self same perfect God, of one everlastingness, of one Essence, and of one equality, howbeit that in order (though not in degree) the Father is first, who is of none: the Son is second, who is of the Father: and the holy Ghost is third, who is of the father and of the son, both of them unspeakably by the everlasting communion of the whole Essence of the godhead: the Son begotten, and the holy Ghost proceeding. Quest. Truly as far as I see, the depth of this mystery is unpossible to be uttered. Ans. It is so in deed, if a man will seek Reverence to be given to gods mysteries. a reason how that should come to pass. But we be sure it is so, by the express word of God. And therefore we must believe and reverence the mystery that god hath opened unto us, and not search for the thing that he hath hidden from us, & which we be not able to conceive. Quest. Doth this knowledge of God's Essence, suffice to save a man. Ans. No. For besides many other Knowledge of God. things, whereby God's nature is after a sort painted out unto us: lest we might surmise him to be like the things Rom. 8. 15. 16. 17. etc. ●bm 38. 39 Gal. 4. 6. 7 john. 16. 17. etc. that are created, it standeth us chief on hand to know, how he is minded towards us. Quest. That thou mayest know this, what considerest thou chiefly in God. Ans. Perfect justice, and perfect mercy. Quest. What callest thou justice, and Exo 20. 5. 6 Ex. 34. 6. 7. What gods justice is. what callest thou mercy? Ans. These things are not in God, as qualities. But by god's justice, I mean that God's nature is so pure and sound of itself, that he utterly hateth and most severely punisheth all unrighteousness. And by the name of perfect mercy, I What gods mercy ●●. mean that whatsoever he bestoweth upon us, (and specially the benefit of everlasting life) proceedeth wholly of his mere free gift and grace. Quest. But these things agreed not together. How justice and mercy may match For how is he a most sore punisher for those things which he giveth of his mere grace? Ans. That these things do very well agreed, the father hath well showed in his son, who hath made full satisfaction for our sins, and is given unto us freely by the father. Quest. Did not the father then, or the holy ghost aby the death for us? Ans. Not truly, none of them both: but john. 1. 14 &. 16. 13 & 17. 3. Rom. 8. 14. 1. joh. 4. 13. alonely the son whom the father sent, and whom the holy Ghost teacheth and sealeth fast in us. Quest. Is not the Son very God by nature, and consequently the immortality itself, as well as the father and the holy Ghost? Ans. Yes. Neither were he our saviour, Math. 1. 21. Mark 2. 7 if he were not God. Quest. How then could he die? Ans. Where as by his godhead he was Gal. 4. 45 Heb. 2. 9 14. 15 Christ's Incarnation the eternal life itself: he become man, that he might die in the flesh. Quest. But the son is god unchangeable: how then is he become man? Ans. Not by mingling the natures or properties together, nor by any changing john. 1. 14 Heb. 2. 16 1. john 1. 7 of God into man, or of man into God, of which things none of both is possible: but by so strait and familiar knitting of the sons Godhead to the nature of man taken unto it, that the Son of God being very God and very man, is henceforth one person jesus Christ. Quest. And what manner of union is this? Union Ans. In Greek it is called hipostaticall, and in English Personal: and so it is in deed. Quest. I pray thee describe it, that it may be understood, at least wise after a sort? Ans. The things are said to be united A Description of union or unitinge of two things into one in nature, which come together into one nature, whether the same be done without any growing together, mixing together, or turning one into another, like as the three people of the Godhead are one most single substance: or whether it be done by only knitting together, like as the soul and body meet together, as essential parts in making that which is man: or whether it be by means of some mixture or turning of the one into the other, like as befalleth in the interchange of the elements & in things that be mixed. And things are said to be united personally, which are joined in such wise, as there riseth thereof, but one self-same person: like as the body & soul are so united to make the one nature of man, that they close together into one person or particular. Of this sort is also the union The union of the two natures in Christ. of the two natures in christ, which join together, (not to make some one third thing as Eutiches misweened, but) to make both one person, without any confusion, either of the natures themselves, or of the essential properties. And I said an union of natures, but not of people, lest it might be surmised, that two people were grown into one, whereas in Christ there is one nature which a man may see is peculiar to the word itself, and in that nature rests also the other nature that was taken to it, that is to with the nature of man. For the person of god took not to it the person of man: but the divine nature, (and that in the only person of the son) that is to say, in respect that the same godhead was the son, and not in respect that it was either the father or the holy ghost) took unto it man's nature destitute of it own personship as I might term it. Therefore to be short, like as in the Godhead there be three persons coming together in one self-same nature: even so in christ there be two natures joined together in the one person of the Son: so as the three people are not three gods, but one God, by reason of the most single uniting of the three people into one self-same nature: neither are there two Christ's, but one Christ, by reason, not of two perfect people, but of two perfect natures joined together, not to make some one third nature, but united into the person of the son, in which person both the nature's are uphilde. Quest. Neither comprehend I this secret. Ans. Then yet again reverence thou Reverence of heavenly mysteries. the thing that thou comprehendest not. For all the whole Scripture crieth out, that it is most true. And if it were not so, he should not be a jesus (that is to say, a saviour) to us, nor yet Christ, that is to say anointed, as our Sovereign and everlasting King, Prophet, and Priest. Quest. But could not God have saved man by some other mean less removed from our capacities? Ans. Certesse he could. But this was the most convenient mean for him to show, as well his singular justice, as his singular mercy. Quect. How so? Ans. Because that if he had either saved The orderly proceeding of gods just. us without full satisfaction, or exacted the same satisfaction of any other than of the nature that was indebted: he might have seemed to have been unmindful of his justice, and therefore it was requisite that Heb. 2. 14 15. 16. 17 Rome, 8. 3 our saviour should be a man. But had he been but only man, he should never have discharged gods wrath, and so consequently he should not have been able to wind himself out of it, and much less to deliver us. And therefore it behoved, ● Cor. 5. 19 that the flesh which was taken, should be sustained and born up by the nature of the godhead, most perfectly united unto it. Furthermore as concerning mercy Rom. 5. 8 could there be given any surer, evidenter yea or more divine assurance of most perfect mercifulness, than that the father hath even his own only son for his enemies, and the son likewise given his own life willingly for us that are most unworthy? Quest. It is even so. But was not Christ Christ's manhood most pure without sin, Math. 1. 20 Rome 8. 3 1. Pet. 3. 18 himself guiltless? An▪ Yes forsooth. And therefore he was conceived by the holy Ghost in the virgin Mary, not only without any spot of uncleanness, but also endued with most singular sowndnesse and pureness in his flesh. For otherwise he himself should have had need of an other to be his saviour: neither could his oblation have pleased God, neither truly could God have found in his heart to have united himself to so unclean a nature. Quest. Could it then stand with the nature Christ suffered as a borrow or surety, & not as an offender of the sovereign justice, to exact punishmēt for other folk's sins, at the hands of a man that was most guiltless, yea and also most holy? An. In deed the father might have seemed to do his son wrong, if he had punished him as an offender. He struck 2. Cor. 5. 21 him therefore, not as an offender, but as one that of his own accord was willing to yield himself as a borrow or surety for the unrighteous: and therefore the father did nothing that might not well stand with his justice. Quest. But why was he condemned at the bar before the judge, and also executed by the death of the Cross, seyn● he could have dyed otherwise also for us? Ans. To the end it might thereby the better appear, that he become accursed for our sakes, and that he took upon him the whole wrath of his father against our sins, to set us at full liberty. Quest. But death is incident to the body Objection against Christ's full redeeming of the whole man by his death only: and therefore by this death of his, he seemeth to have discharged but only our bodies. And yet notwithstanding, all of us dye still: Whereupon it seemeth to follow, that he saveth neither body nor soul. Ans. It was requisite that Christ should take unto him both soul and body togeether: that he might both die, (for the first death is the separation of the soul from the body) and also that being become perfect man, he might deliver men whole ● perfect. Quest. Meanest thou then that he suffered also the pains whereunto our souls are subject? Ans. Yea verily, for it is even the chiest Gal. 3. 13. Christ suffereth the whole dew for our sins. part of Christ's sufferings, that besides the extreme torments of most cruel death, he also endured for our sakes the most horrible weight of god's wrath, than the which nothing can be more dreadful: during which time, his Godhead did as it were rest in him all the while, to the intent that the manhood which he had taken unto him, although it quite quailed not under the burden, (which otherwise had been untolerable to the very Angels,) might notwithstanding most sharply feel, and finally bear out, gods whole wrath unutterably inflamed against all the sins of all the choose: even till satisfaction were made to the full. Therefore at what time he hung upon the Cross, he was also in the mids of the torments of hell that he might fully deliver us from both the deaths. Quest. But I pray you, if he came to deliver Why Christ delivered us by dying. us from death, why did he himself dye. Ans. Because that else the said sovereign justice of god, which it béehooved to be satisfied, Heb. 2, 14 Esay. 53. 8 etc. Ose 13. 14 should not appear in our redemption. And therefore the more glorious is Christ's victory even in this respect, that he overcame death by diyng. Quest. Why then do the choose sort why the choose die still die, seeing Christ hath vanquished death for them? Ans. Because Christ is not come, to restore Rom. 5. 15 etc. us into the same state of this world, which we have lost in Adam: but to remove us into far better immortality, which thing cannot be done, except we departed out of this world. Therefore albeit 1. cor▪ 15. 35 that this separation of the soul and body, which is called the first death, sprang of sin, the remnantes whereof are even in the holiest men: yet notwithstanding if you mark well the purpose & drift of God, he strikes not the choose with it properly as a judge, but sends it to them as a most loving father that calls away his children home to himself: and therefore it not only frayeth not the believers, but also refresheth and chéereth How the power of christ uttered tselfe. them. Quest. Why then did not that power of his utter itself out of hand against death? Ans. Verily it uttered itself out of hand Math. 28. 2. 3. etc. Acts, 2. 24. in asmuch as his body suffered not any corruption. Nevertheless, it was his will to have it lie buried for a space: both to the intent that his being dead in deed, & his death being confirmed also by the seals of his enemies, might prove his resurrection which was to ensue anon after: & also to the intent he might like a conqueror pursue death fleeing away before him into his innermost dungeon & consequently perfume our graves with Rom. 6. 4 what Christ's Resurrection witnesseth unto us. Rom. 6. 10. 1. Cor. 15. 3. 4. etc. The cause of Christ's Ascension, & how be is absent from us. Ephe. 4. 8. 9 10. 1. cor. 15 20 the quickening scent of his own death. Quest. Is his resurrection then a witness that he undertook to die willingly, to purchase immortality for us? Ans. It is so. For he is risen by his own power, never to die any more, to the end that we also should be quickened in him for evermore. Quest. But why went he up into heaven and not rather tarried still with us? Ans. In body he is verily and in deed go away from us among whom he was, and is mounted above all heavens, where he was not afore in body: both to the intent that he being the first that is risen from death, might first take possession of the heavenly kingdom, triumphing over his vanquished enemies: and also to teach us to high us thitherward, where he hath prepared a place for us. And yet is he all the while present with john. 14. 2 Col. 3. 1 us by his spirit, governing his Church as the head governeth the members that be joined unto it. Quest. Then hath he shifted his place, to go thither where as is no place. Ans. It is so, he hath changed place, Mat. 28. 20 according as the thing done witnesseth and according as the verynesse of a body (yea though it be glorified) requireth. But his changing of place is according to that nature which is bounded: & that is done, not to forsake us (for in as much as Christ is one person, God and man together, he is nevertheless still present with his servants by his whole power, because he is very God) but to withdraw us from the earth, and to teach us to seek heavenly things. And where as thou sayest there is no place whether as he is ascended: it is a fond imagination. Let this suffice thee, namely that the godhead only is infinite, and that all other things either in heaven or above heaven, or in earth, or in the bottomless deeps, and consequently his body (which though it be a glorified body is notwithstanding still a man's body,) are according to the nature of them, finite and bownded with place. And how they be contained in that eternal glory, we shall then perceive, when we come thither ourselves. Quest. Thou seemest then to divide Christ, or to make two Christ's, of whom the one is present and tother is away. Ans. When I say that Christ is absent as concerning his flesh, and yet avouch him to be verily present, both as concerning his godhead, and also if he be considered as a whole thing, that is to say, as one person God and man: I divide him not, but take away the confounding of his natures. Quest. What is meant by his sitting at Christ fitting at the right hand of the father. the right hand of the father? Ans. That he having laid aside, not the verines of his flesh, but all infirmity & frailty of the flesh, is now advanced to such state of glory, as surmounteth all name: That is to wit, that his flesh is Phi. 2. 9 already fully glorified by the godhead which dwelleth bodily in it without beréeving Col. 2. 9 it of the own essence or essential properties, and that it ordereth and ruleth all things in heaven and earth with full Mat. 28. 18. Phillip 2 ● 0. Heb. 2. 8. 9 1. cor. 15. 17 Essential properties Luk. 24. 39 power, saving him that hath made all things subject unto it. Quest. what meanest thou by essential properties. An. That which being taken away, the thing must of necessity no more be that which it was afore. As for example, if a body be bereft of quantity, it must of necessity cease to be a body. Quest. But God is almighty. An. Who denies that? Qu. Ergo, he can bring to pass, that one selfsāe A right papistical objection, whereon they build their devilish mass body may either be in many places at once, or somewhere as in a place, and other somwher not as in a place, but after some other incomprehensible manner. An. That god can 'cause a thing that is, not to be any more, aswell as he hath caused the thing to be, which was not, no man doubteth except he be stark mad: and therefore a much les likelihod is it, that he should not be able to altar the shapes & qualities of things at his pleasure. But to bring to pass, that a thing should at once both be and not be, or at once be of such sort and not of such sort, god cannot do, because he cannot lie. And not to be able to lie, is not a sign of weakness, but of unvariable mightiness. Quest. Then do you conclude that Christ is now absent from us as concerning his madhod. Ans. Yea, and so far of from us, as the Colo. 3. 1 earth where we be, is distant from that place which is above all the heavens, whither that flesh of his is carried up. Q. Yet hath he himself said, that he was Ihon. 3. 13. then in heaven, when he talked with Ni codemus upon earth. An. This and such other things are meant by communicating of proprieties. Quest. What callest thou propriety? what property is A That which logicians call proper after the fourth manner: As for example, to be infinite is a propriety in the nature of the godhead, and quantity is a propriety in all things created, and specially in That is to say partaking, made apertaining to the one as well as to the other, made common or indifferent to both. bodily things. Quest. Then is this communicating false, for as much as such manner of propriety ceaseth to be proper or peculiar assoon as it becometh common. An. This later part I simply grant unto, but not unto the other. Quest. But these two things seem to stick inseparably together. An. Then take thou the case to stand thus. How each of Christ's natures communicate their properties unto other. Either of Christ's natures, that is to say his godhead & his manhood, keep still their essential properties to themselves, with out communicating them the one to the other, according as I have said already which thing unless we grant: infinite and utterly wicked absurdities will ensue. For if his godhead should receive into itself the properties of his manhood, it should be transformed into manhood: & contrariwise, if his manhood should admit into itself the properties of his godhead, it should become a certain counterfeit godhead, so as christ might be said to be neither very god nor very man, & so consequently he should not be our saviour, And therefore there is not any intercommuning either of natures or of essential properties. For look how false and wicked are these propositions, flesh is the godhead, and the godhead is flesh: even so false and wicked are these also, Christ's flesh is every where or Christ is every where as touching his flesh: & Christ's godhead is not every where or christ is not every where as touching his godhead: most false of all them are these. The godhead was crucified or died: & Christ's flesh is infinite. Now although these two natures, together with their essential properties, cannot communicate each with other as I said afore: yet are they united in such sort, as they make but one self-same party, or one person only. Therefore look how false are these said speeches, the godhead is flesh, and flesh is the godhead▪ so true & catholic are these, god (that is to wit the word) is a man, & a man is god. And that is by reason of the unity of the people which springeth, not of the comunicating of natures (for as I told you, there is no such thing, unless you take communicating for union, which were to unproper) but of the uniting of natures. For god is not a man in that he is god, (which thing must notwithstanding needs follow, if the natures of the very essences that is to say of the godhead and of the manhood communicated each with other, that is to wit, were the one as well as that other) but in another respect that is to wit, in that he hath united a man unto him. Neither is a man god, in that he is a man: but in another respect, namely in that he is united unto god. And look what I have said concerning the natures, the same must also be understood concerning the essential properties, which are vncommunicable as well as that other. Most true therefore are these speeches, & they must be laid forth in former wise: god (that is to wit the word) was conceived, born, suffered, was crucified, died, was buried, & rose again, namely in that he united a man unto him, & not in that he is god. So also are these speeches. A man is the eternal, infinite, and invisible son of god, filling all things etc. not as in himself, that is to say, not in that he is a man nor by any communicating of properties, but in that he is taken into one person by the son of god. Quest. But these manner of speeches seem The great force of the union of natures. hard and very strange. Ans. Nay truly. If thou wouldest caste away thy misconceived and prejudicial opinion: thou shouldest found them to be exceeding fit to let forth the union of the nature's: which is so great, the look what thing cannot be said of the several, that is to wit of the godhead by itself, or of the manhood by itself: The same may very well be attributed to either of both jointly▪ that is to wit, either to god or to the man: and that is because that of the two natures, their is not made one nature, but one person. And therefore we avouch, that in the natures there is an union & not an unity: and the the unite is of the person only. Whereupon it cometh to pass that the whole person, not only is signified by the name of the whole person, (that is to say by jesus, which comprehendeth both the nature's united together): but also is meant by the name of either of both the natures, that is to say, by the son of god, & the son of man howbeit as considered jointlye & not severally. So also whereas the name Christ (that is to say anointed) agreeth properly but to the manhood only (for the godhead was not anointed, but did anoint) yet doth it betoken the whole person. And it is a common ordinary matter in all things to speak of people after the like manner, to show the uniting of the parts of which the unity of the person consists, So this manner of speech Peter is an apostle: is as proper as may be, agreeing to Peter's whole person, & to the several parts thereof, that is to wit both to his soul & his body, but this manner of speech▪ Peter is the son of jonas, agreeth to him as he is whole together, & as he is considered to be some hole thing, that is to weet as he is considered, by unity of person: and not to both the several parts of him, saving in respect of the one part only, namely of the body: except perhaps thou thinkest that the soul also is begotten. It is a like form of speech, when we term any man a mortal creature or a reasonable creature▪ which term doubtless do fitly agreed to the whole man as he is whole, by reason of the unite of his person: and yet that is but in respect of some one of his parts only. Yea truly, the force of this personal union is so great, that a man may speak of it in the same phrases of speech still, even after it is dissolved: as if a man should say: Peter lieth buried at Rome (for we will put the case to be so:) the proposition shallbe true, and yet but in respect of his body only, albeit that Peter (that is to what is meant by communic●tinge of properties say the whole person) be named. Quest. Wherefore dost thou then term it a comunicating of properties, if there be no comunicating of natures and essential properties in deed? An. By communicating of properties, we mean not the very personal union or the manner of the union, but the report that is made by reason of the personal union of the two natures: in which report the essential property, or the operation, that agreeth to some one of the natures, is attributed to the person in joint ●esse and not in severalnesse. And forasmuch as this report is true: there must needs also be truth contained under it. Howbeit in the aforesaid respect, that is to say, of the whole person considered jointly together. Quest. Then concludest thou again, that Christ, as concerning his flesh, is departed verily and in deed out of the earth, up above all the heavens, and therefore is absent from us that are upon earth. An. So is it. And yet I grant, that How christ is present with us Christ being man, is still present with us, howbeit in another respect than of his manhood, that is to weet, in that the self same Christ which is man, is God also. yea, and if thou will't, I grant thee thus much more, that Christ's manhood also is present, howbeit in other respect, that is to wit, not in itself or in it own substance, but in respect that it cleaveth by personal union unto the word which is every where, & therefore also is in very deed in his supper, Quest. What doth Christ then avail us To what purpose Christ's bodily absence serveth. Mat. 28 18 john. 17. 2 Mat. 28▪ 20 john. 15. 4 Gal, 2. 20 Ephe. 1. 11. now as touching his flesh, if he have forsaken us? A. Nay, he hath not forsaken us, in as much as even now also in his glorified flesh, he disposeth allthings both in heaven and earth, and hath received a name that is above all names, at his fathers hand. By virtue of which authority he quickeneth cherisheth, and governeth his church in this world by his secret & unutterable power▪ and there withal reigneth in the mids of all his enemies: And in heaven he maketh intercession to his father, until the time that the last enemy (namely death,) be utterly put to flight. Q. I pray you, what manner of intercession Christ's intercession is this that you speak of? A. He maketh intercession, first in pacifying the father towards us by the continual freshness of his own innocency and obedience: and secondly because we cannot call upon the father aright but in his name, so as he steppeth evermore as an atonement maker betwixt us and the father, to the end that whatsoever we offer to the father, may be well accepted. As for for the suit that some men dream that ●ist should make, with kneeling down his father's feet: it is but fond deuic● such men as have no skill to put a difference between Christ when he was in weakness, and Christ being now in glory, nor finally to discern heavenly things from earthly things. Quest. What thinkest thou then of Obiection against Christ's mediation in both his natures them which do so wilfully maintain that Christ is not a mediator in respect of both his natures? Ans. I think them to be the devils Instruments, prepared to hinder the work of the Lord, which thing experience yt selfe hath taught us. Quest. But to be a mean betokeneth a place beneath the highest, and it belongeth to the lesser person to make means to the greater person: hereupon I gather, that they seem too be Arrianes, which hold opinion that Christ is a mean and a meanemaker or mediator as touching his godhead also. Ans. I should wonder, that in so great light of the Gospel, there could be any sound, that would suffer themselves too be beguiled with so trifling toys, if the deed itself bewrayed not, that they never followed gods Gospel with a right zeal. I speak of the wilful sort, and of such as are condemned by their own judgement. Quest. But this is no answering. An. The shamefulness of the matter compelleth me to bruste out into these words, because I see so many have shrunk away upon so small occasion or none, first unto the heresy of Arrius, afterwards to the surmised opinion of three Gods, & finally to the devilish dotages of Samosetane. Go to therefore, & let us inquire of them severally in order. Quest. Thinkest thou then, ihat to be a Difference between a mean & a mediator or meanmaker. mean is another thiug than to be a mediator or meanemaker? An. Yea truly. For the word Mean may betoken but the quality or state of a person: and so the thing that is betwixt two uttermore things, may be deemed a mean or a middle thing? But a mediator or meanemaker, betokeneth an Vmper or attonementseker. Which are things so far diverse, that one may be a mediator or meanemaker, which notwithstanding is not of a mean or middle degree, as when we seek to set men at one: and contrariwise, one may of a mean or middle degree, and yet shall not follow of necessity that he is mediator. Quest. But Christ is both a mean and Christ is both a mean and a mediator. mediator. An. I grant it. Quest. If he be a mean in that he is the word, or the son: them it followeth that the son is inferior to the father, namely as if he were endued with some kind of Godhead that were a mean between the godhead of the father & the nature of man. An. Then will't thou have Christ to be mean, as touching the one of his natures only, that is to wit as touching is manhood: or else to be no mean at all? Quest. Nay, but answer me first to my demand. An. I answer then, that have thou an eye to whither of his natures thou list alone by itself, christ cannot be said to be a mean, for in that he is the son, he is equal with the father: and in that he is man, he is equal with the residue of men. Therefore stood the manhood on hand of necessity to borrow this effectual working at the hand of the divine nature that took it unto to it. Therefore in this work of mediatiō (that is to say of reconciliation or atonement) some doings are attributed to the wholeperson of Christ (that is to say both his natures working together) some to his godhead severally by itself, & some to his manhood severally by itself: but conclude, none of both his nature's hath the mediatorship by itself alone. Quest. But what shall we believe concerning the office of intercession? for surely what is to be thought of the office of intercession. he that maketh intercession for another is inferior unto him to whom the intercession is made. An. Nay, that is untrue: for what should let, but that one equal may entreat a●●ther his equal, or the superior may entreat his inferior for another man. And therefore it should not follow that the son were lesser than the father, although he had taken this charge upon him or his own will, even without taking any flesh unto him. But I have showed already how the things that are written of christs intercession, must not be restrained the reason that agreeth with the sovereignties & degrees of this world. Moreover how the word is a mean between the father and us, in respect of the union of the two natures: and how he is the mediator between the father and us, in respect of his office, I have showed even now. Quest. They say also it should seem that the Godhead maketh intercession to itself, if Christ should be called an intercessor in respect also that he is God, Ans. They say so in deed, but very unskilfully. For although the Godhead being a thing undividable, be whole and perfect as well in the son, as in the father and in the holy ghost: Yet notwithstanding when we consider the godhead in the people, we consider it not without relation of one person to another. And therefore put the case (which thing is most true) that Christ maketh intercession for us to the father, even in his Godhead united to the manhood which he took unto it: yet shall it not follow, that he maketh intercession to himself, seeing that the father is one and that son is another, in several person throughly distincte, albeit that the father and the Son be both one thing and one god● if the Essence of them be considered with out their people. For like as in Christ incarnate there be several things and not several people: so in the godhead there be several people but not several things. Quest. What opinion hast thou of Of praying to Saints & Angels. praying unto Angels and Saints deceased? An. That it is wicked Idolatry. Quest. Yet it may be, that they which pray unto Angels and Saints deceased cannot away with the making of any Images. again ye should have made a distinction between such as pray to the true and blessed Angels or to the souls of them that were godly and holy men in deed: and such as worship counterfeit Angels, that is to say fiends, or which worship such manner of Gods as although they were Gods, yet should they (even by their own confession) be but wicked Gods. Answer I grant, not only that some sins Mat. 11. 22. john. 19 11 are more heinous than others: but also that such as are guilty of one selfsame sin, are not always a like guilty. Nevertheless, he that sinneth the greevouslyer, dischargeth not him that sinned less heynouslye, out of the number of offenders. And therefore let us suffer all this gear to slip, whereof there is no question betwixt us. idols are conceived by fond fancy, and brought forth by the hand. Therefore are they Idolaters, also, whose Idol lurketh like a shapeless conception in the womb of their imagination: neither is there any kind of idol more ugly, than this which is set up in the very bowels of the mind. Quest But why callest thou that thing Idolatry, The good intentes of the popish praying to Saints. which leaneth upon good reason. Answer. Fie on that reason which not only leaneth not to God's word, but also fighteth fully against it. And yet I see not what good reason may be alleged to defend so gross a wickedness. Quest. I pray thee show me why thou sayest so? Ans. To call upon one that is absent, whom thou canst not make privy to the meaning of thy mind, it is a point of extreme blockishness. And to suppose that the souls of such as be deceased, either be present every where, or if they be absent and hear man's words, do nevertheless perceive the thoughts of their minds: I say that both of them are manifest and horrible sins of Idolatry: at least wise if it be idolatry to father that thing upon the creature, which is proper or peculiar to god alone. And whereas they make exception, that God discloseth our petitions unto the saints, or else that the saints behold all things in I wot not what a wonderful glass of the trinity: look how easy a matter it is for them to say it: so easy is it for us to shake it of as a foolish and gross forgery. Moreover, as concerning the angels, we here in deed that the Lord useth their service in defending his children: and no doubt but they execute their charge as it is enjoined them, and are careful (after their manner) for the welfare of the godly. But what makes this that we should pray to them? for how may that be done in faith, seeing we know not, neither when they come, nor when they go: nor when they be present, nor when they be absent: nor find any word or example of it in the holy Bible: but rather that the Angels have not admitted so much as any outward religious reverencinge? finally seeing there is none in the whole world to be compared, either in power or love towards us, unto Christ God and man which sitteth at the right hand of the father, making intercession for us, as the only mediator between God and men whereupon sprang the rabble of petty intercessors, but of manifest distrust in him? And as for the unfailinge love of the Saints which many men harp upon, although it be true: yet notwithstanding it is so awklye applied for the proof of praying to Saints, as it Another objection of the Papists for praying to saints. 2 Thes. 3. 1. needeth no disproof at all. Quest. Yet notwithstanding we pray one for another, & desire one of us the ●●ayers of another, and in so doing the apostle hath go before us by his own example Ergo. to require the intercession of some others besides Christ, it no why timpeacheth the office of the only mediator, unto whom we say not pray for us, but, have mercy upon us. Answer. first we are sure that the maynteyners of this praying to Angels and deadfolkes, hold not themselves within those bounds: but do crave their help in their dangers and distresses no less than the openest Idolaters that ever were, did in old time crave help at the hands of their petygoddes' that were under the throne of their Jupiter Again, for the members of one body too request one of us too pray for another, so long as we may be able too advertise one another of our affairs in this life: is truly no point of praying unto men, or of thrusting in mediators in Christ's stead as they do: but rather a calling upon our common father together with our brethren, in the name of the one mediator aforesaid the which one myndednes is a most acceptable Sacrifice unto God. Question But the holy Ghost himself is said to Rom. 8. 26 How the holy ghost prayeth for us. Rom. 8. 15. make intercession for us with unspeakble groanings. Answer. That is because he teacheth us too groan and to pray aright, according also as the same Apostle maketh him too cry out. Que. But when shall this intercession be Christ's intercession for us is and shallbe everlasting. at an end? An. Truly never: for even at such time as it shall appear that we be with god, our cleavinge unto him shall not be but by the stepping in of our mean and mediator, and consequently of our head Jesus christ, whose reigning and préest●d are everlasting in the same respect. Yet not withstanding, the whole manner of ruling and governinge the Church that is now used, shall utterly cease, after that the last enemy, (that is to wit death) is put away, and all the choose are taken up with their head into everlasting life, 1. cor 15 28 Of the yielding up of Christ's kingdom to god the father. and so god shallbe all in all. Quest. But Paul sayeth that this kingdom or reigning shallbe yielded up to the father, and that Christ shall become subject unto him. An. Paul verily having an eye unto Christ, as too the son of god in deed, howbeit as manifest in the fieshe, and joined with his members, doth worthily attribute the chief glory to the godhead, which shall at that time be most of all disclosed, when all enemies be overcome. And truth this subjection beetokeneth some thing inferior to the godhead (for the creature shall never be made equal with the creator, not not even in Christ) but yet it doth us to understand, that the chief blessedness (next unto that which is peculiar to the Godhead) consists in this point, that God accepting us (and our head together in respect that he is man,) for his dear and faithful subjects, will then at length give us the fullness of felicity, and punish the rest as rebels with endless pains. Of Christ's coming, to eudgement. 2. tim. 4. 1. Quest. But whereas it is said that he will come at the last day, to judge both the quick and the dead: there is some hardness in that saying. For it appeareth by many places, of the Scriptures (& specially by the Story or parable of the rich glutton) Luk 16 19 that every man's judgement lighteth upon him immediately after his departure out of this life, whither he be godly Luke. 16. 9 23. 24. or ungodly. An. God doth after a sort execute his judgement even then: insomuch as it is not to be doubted, but that the souls of the Godly whom Christ doth gladly receive, Acts. 7. 60 Phil. 1. 23 have a foretaste of the eternal happiness: and contrariwise that the souls of the ungodly have a forefeling of the horribleness of eternal death. Notwithstanding besides that the said fore judgement hath respect only too their souls, while their bodies lie still a sleep in the dust: the Mat. 25. 3● full declaration and executing of the judgement, whereby the whole man shall either be made owner of eternal life, or else be cast into endless torment, is delayed to the last day of the general Resurrection. Quest. By the dead then, thou meanest The dead. not them that shallbe dead at such time as they shallbe judged: but such as have been dead before, and shall then be risen again. Which then be the quick one's that thou matchest against the dead one's? An. They be those whom Christ shall then find still alive in this world, at that second coming of his which shallbe 1 cor. 15. 51 52. 1. thes. 4. 15. most glorious. The sudden changing of which men into the one state or that other of the life to come (that is to wit either of endless death or of everlasting life) shallbe unto them in steed of bodily death & rising again, as the Apostle teacheth. Qu How are they said to be dampened Endless damnation. to endless death, who notwithstanding are risen again never to die any more? An. Because that to live in so horrible torments both of soul & body, deserveth not the name of life, but rather of death. Quest. But the Resurrection? is it not in general of god's goodness, yea and that Obection against the generalnesse of the resurrection. 1. cor. 15. 22 in Christ who is the first fruits of them that rise? An. Like as the father created all things in the Son: so also shall the wicked receive life again in him, that is to say, by the operation of his power. And yet for all that the blessing of life shall turn to a curse in the ungodly, like as all other things do. The wicked therefore shall not rise again by the benefit and virtue of Christ's resurrection (for this resurrection is knit unto blessed life, with an unseparable knot: and therefore none but only such as believe in Christ and are truly graffed into him, are made partakers of that.) But by the power and authority of the Son as he is a judge: who at the same time that he pronounced the sentence of double death, and specially Gen. 2. 17 Gen. 3. 19 of eternal death against all mankind, did even then condemn all men in the penalty of rising again, saving those whom he himself should preserve from death For how should the punishment of the wicked be everlasting (as it must needs be) if their bodies should continue for ever in the dust, utterly void of all feeling. Quest. Nevertheless, sing that the body Objection against the punishment of the body for the souls offences. moveth not of itself, but only is the justrument of the soul: it seemeth to stand with equity, that the whole punishment of sin, or the whole glory of righteousness, should have cleaved to men's souls. Answer. The whole scripture speaketh against it 1. cor. 35. etc as often as it maketh mention of the resurrection, which doubtless agreeth not properly to the soul. Again although the body sin not of itself alone: yet doth the whole man sin, and therefore he is justly punished whole. And christ were not a perfect 1. thes. 5. 25. Heb. 2. 14 redeemer, if he should let the bodies of his servants lie still in rottenness. Neither had he needed to have taken a body unto him, if he had come to deliver no more but our souls. Quest. But what manner of life shall that Eternal life and eternal death. eternal life be, and what manner of death shall that eternal death be? Ans. It is to no purpose to search for these things: not only because such curiousenesse is to be condemned, as driveth men too demand the things that the lord hath as yet hidden from us: but also because it is a point of extreme madness, to be desirous to comprehend that which a man is not able to conceive. If we were now able to conceive that blissfulness, we should already after a sort possess it, in as much as the understanding of man doth at leastwise so farforth enjoy the thing that is to be understood, as it conceiveth it in understanding. The like also is too be thought of the everlasting pains: whereof we see that even a very light conceit of them doth now and then drive men too despair, and too horrible facts. Now then, that men feel not as yet the horribleness of the everlasting fire any fullyer: it is to be imputed to Gods forbearinge, who as yet delayeth his wrath. Therefore let us rather seek, by what way we come too it, that we may hold the way of life: and let us settle ourselves in the things that the Lord hath opened unto us concerning those matters in his word: namely that the happiness of the Godly, and the unhappiness of the ungodly, shallbe so great that the manner and measure of none of them both can be comprehended by us us now. Quest. Then which is the way to eternal The only way to eternal life joh. 20. 7. 1 life? An. Even Christ as he himself witnesseth: neither is there any other way that leadeth unto life. Quest, And yet he quickeneth not all men. An. I grant that he quickeneth none but those that walk in this way. And to walk in this way, is to join a man's self unto christ, yea & after a sort to incorporate himself into him, by beléevinge. Quest. What callest thou faith? The distinction of true faith An. The faith or belief whereby the children of light differ from the children of darkness, is not simply that Insight (which the devils have aswell as they) whereby it cometh to pass, that a man acknowledgeth the things to be true, which are contained in the writings of the Prophets and Apostles: but moreover it is a steadfast assent of the mind accompanying the same Insight, whereby it cometh to pass, that each man applieeth Rom. 8. 37 etc. particularly to himself, the promise of everlasting life in Christ, in case as if he were in full possession of it already. Quest Wither doth nature yield us this faith, or doth grace give it? or whether Whence true faith cometh. doth partly nature & partly grace give it? An. Only the mere grace of god, which begetteth us anew. Que. Are there not common Insightes and felings of god in the nature of man though he be corrupted? An. Yes verily be there, howbeit even as some rubbices of a very princely building. Again I say thus much, that this faith is not ground in natural I● Mat. 16. 17. Ioh 1. 19 & 18. 17. 15 sights: but theremust further be adde● the things that god hath disclosed to the world peculiarly by his Prophets, and Apostles, which things flesh and blood 1. Cor. 2. 9 19 14. could never have once thought of. Lastly this thing also is to be marked (wherein ●●nsisteth as it were the special and peculiar Col. 22. difference of faith (namely that each man must apply the promise of eternal life in Christ, peculiarly to himself by believing, which testimony the scripture calleth assured persuasion. Quest. 1. Thes. 1. 5 Of man's corruption. I pray you let us step a little aside to discourse of man's corruption. First I demand ●hat thing thou thinkest to be corruped in the nature of man: and secondly what manner of corruption the same is: & lastly what remedy there is against it. An. To the first demand I answer, that Corruption of the body in substance john. 3. 6 Ephe. 2. 5 the wholeman is corrupted: yea & so corrupted, that S. paul's saying (namely that we be dead in our sins) is to be understood of either part of man. Quest. Doth this corruption touch the very substance of him. That is to wit both of soul and body. Ans. Yea in deed doth it as concerning the body, which even therefore is become mortal. But of the Soul we must think otherwise. Quest. What shall we think then of the corruption of the soul? Ans. That it is corrupted in qualities, Corruption of the soul in qualities and which those qualities be. which for instructions sake I make to be two, namely reason and will. Quest. Dost thou then place qualities in the soul? Ans. I do so, howbeit agreeable to a spiritualll and single nature. Otherwise if a soul or a spirit be nothing else but a substance, then let us make as many under gods as there be souls of men But to the end we may eschew many crabbed school points at once: ye shall understand that I admit but one soul in a man: for I read not that there were any more created, and I deem it an absurdity, that any one body should be endued with any more souls than one Also by the qualities of the Souls I mean two things. That is to wit, first the powers grounded in the soul: which I say are no less to be distinguished (howbeit by such distinction as agreeth to a spiritual nature) from the very substance of the soul itself, than the power of drawing steel is distinguished from the substance of the Adamant: And secondly the soundenes, or the rightness, or (as Moses termeth it) the goodness of the same powers, which I said to be two. Que. Well then, considering that the fall of man can never be sufficiently understood Error in opinion about original sin. and described. They that avouch original sin to consist only sin accidents or qualities, seem to take it but for some superficial blemish, that sticketh as it were but to the skin. Ans. These be fond conceits of foolish men: and after the same sort did Satan in times past beguile some men, that would needs wrist the christian principles to the ragged rule of their own most foolish reason. By those qualities I mean not what is meant by qualities in the soul. some accidents or byfalles, but things that stick in the very nature itself, and yet may be dissevered from the very substance and as it were from the ground work itself wherein they be, not in very deed, but by reason and in thought. Quest, Your saying them in effect, is that The soul is not corrupted in substance but in qualities, for otherwise it should die as the body doth. the qualities of the soul are corrupted, and not the substance of it. An. I say so, and I say further that the contrary opinion is the certain and the open way to Epicurishnesse, that is to say to maintain the mortality or dying of the soul. For grant we once never so little corruption of the substance of the soul we must needs confess that the soul itself is in danger of dying. Again if the whole soul be corrupted: them must the whole soul needs dye out of hand. But if the corruption be but in some part of the soul: how can there be any division of parts in a single substance, such as the soul is? Therefore whosoever will maintain this so awk and wicked opinion, had need to be stark mad: and no less blind had they need to be, that should give ear to him. Quest. Let us leave this gear for those to delight in, upon whom the lord shall execute his rightful judgements. Now proceed and tell me what the same corruption is. Ans. Neither reason, nor will is taken Neither reason nor Will is taken away by Adam's fall, but both of them be utterly defaced and corrupted. away (as I said even now): for had they been taken quite away, the soul of man must needs have perished, or utterly been none at all. But both these powers are so sore defaced: that whereas the eye of understanding ought too have been most clear, according also as it was before the fall: now, (specially in matters perteyninge to God and concerning right conscience,) it partly seethe nothing at all, (no not even when the light of the creator is set before it) according as it is too be seen in the chief points of the true religion: the which, man's reason not only loatheth, but also fighteth against them as fond and false with tooth and nail): and partly if it see, it ●éeth very dimly: so as those small sparks of glimmering light that wear left in man to the end he should be utterly Rom. 1. 20 unexcusable (of which sparks there is no man but he hath some bread in his mind, and many more have been found out by men in bending themselves to the considering of higher things) do by and by leave a man at his first step into the gate of truth, and therefore are far unable so to foreguyde him as he may atteyn too the privities of truth. And furthermore as concerning uprightness to be maintained between man and mā: although the eyesight of man's mind be somewhat less dull in those matters, ve●ly because god so moderateth his just judgement, as the fellowship of mankind (out of which he gathereth his church) might the easilier be preserved, which other wise would perish out of hand according to the desert of man's fall, if all discerning of right and wrong, & of virtue and vice had been taken quite away out of means minds: yet notwithstanding, right great is the blindness of men, both in discussing of general grounds, but specially in discussinge of matters debatable. Which thing is manifestly proved by the repugnancy which is found, not only in the opinions of the common people where there be as many wits as there be heads▪ but also even in the judgements of the wisest philosophers and lawemakers: wherein many have weeryed themselves of late to no purpose, to make them agreed together. Namely will. Now come I down to the other power of the mind, which is the seat of the affections. And whereas the same aught to be ruled by reason as by a wagongu● der: yet notwithstanding, how often doth Rom. 7. 18. 19 it harry him headlong away? And no marvel sing that sometimes it carrieth away even the very soul itself, I forbear to speak of the heady unruliness all all the natural affections, which inconvenience, reason fight against it, doth after a sort see and find fault with: but Ro. 7. 8. 9 10. etc. only gods law doth utterly discover it. And to th'increase of that darkness wherewith the power of understanding & willing is overcast, there is yet another worse inconvenience: namely that reason sucketh upon untruth, & wrestleth wilfully Reason unreformed sucketh always upon untruth. against god's wisdom, even when she is convicted and that the will is carried wilfully unto vice even against the reprehensions of reason, (such as they be) and is not able either to seek or to shun any thing aright, because she is wholly a slave unto sin. Quest. Are we blocks then? Objection An. Not, for when I say that man's understanding & will are blind & froward: I do not utterly bereave him of the power of understanding and willing. Qu. Ergo thou takest away free-will. Of free-will. An. If by free, thou mean willing or unconstrained: I am so far from taking that away: the contrariwise, I say the whole mind is willingly and of it own accord carried unto evil. But if thou take freeness to be never so small an ableness of itself unto either of both (that is to say to be inclined of it lelf as well to the thing that Quest. Nay surely it is not the nature of Natural reason counseleth nothing but evil. reason to counsel evil. An. Sooth so doth reason bear herself in hand. For evil putteth upon it the countenance of good to make reason too like of it. But the true rule to discern good and bad by, must be searched out of God's law, and not out of man's corrupted understanding. Therefore even 1. cor 2. 14 the very same thing which the natural man (as the Apostle termeth him) thinketh to be good and coveteth as good, is by God's spirit termed evil, as always stepping somewhat aside from that which is rightly good. For surely as for the thing that gusheth out of so unclean a sink, although now & then it be not altogether so fowl as the very filth of the sink itself, yet must it needs be unclean. Quest. Yet do I not perceive how the How necessity and free will or willingness may frame together. thing may be called free, which of necessity is carried but to the one part only. Ans. Then remember thyself, that there is a difference between compulsion and necessity. For many things that are of necessity, are also willingly: of which●●or● I think thou will't not deny but Christ's Necessity. Willingness. death was one. But nothing can be both Compulsion of compulsion, and of willingness together, not not even in those things which we are most unwilling to do: as when Seamen suffer loss. Again I pray thee look a little neerlyer, how thou mayst define freeness. For whether of these thinkest thou is more free? he that is in such state, as he may be either free or bound: or he that is so free, as he can by Freeness. no means so much as think of being bound? Truly if thou take that to be free will, which may be led either to good or too evil: thou shalt quite bereave both God, and the Angels, yea and us also, (after we be taken up into heaven,) of that freeness. Yea and it seemeth, that this also may be doubted, whether the Man's freeness before his fall. first man were endued with the said freeness of debating on either part, before he had given ear to Satan. For how could evil come in question: sing it was not yet entered into the world? So as it seemeth to me, that before that time, Adam, was of his own accord with his whole mind and body disposed too good only, without any contrary thought or debating at all, and much more without any purpose: all which things Sathan hath brought into man's disposition by putting concupiscence or lust into us Rightly therefore was that tree called the tree of the knowledge of good & evil, inasmuch as before the eating thereof, man neither knew nor coveted any thing but only good: the forgetfulness whereof is so overspread by eating of that tree, the ever since, men have not ceased to debate of the ends of good and bad, though they themselves be shut up within the bounds of evil. The conclusion is this, that they only are endued with free will, which are set free from the bondage of sin. And of this freedom (which shall never joh. 8. 36 Rom. 6. 16 & 8. 15. be thoroughly perfect till we be utterly sinless in the other life eternal) they have the spirit of God for an assured pledge. Quest. Then in the receiving of the first Of preventing grace grace men do but suffer the grace of god to be wrought in them, & are not joint-workers with the grace. Ans. Truly if ye have an eye to the order of the causes, and to the first entrance of the grace, whereby the lord shapeth us new again, ye must needs grant, that the same proceedeth wholly of God, who loveth us first, when we be Rom. 5. 10 Tit. 3. 5 1. joh. 4. 19 The working of natural wit with preuentinge grace. yet his enemies: and that we be but only receivers of it. But if ye consider the very instant of the time wherein God worketh in us: ye shall find that the ableness to be willing to receive is given unto us, and also that we be willing to receive, both together in one self same moment: For otherwise the grace were in vain. therefore as many as impugn this manner of together working, as though it were repugnant too the grace of God: they bewray their own unskilfulness many ways, considering that this self-same together working is the gift of God's grace, and worketh in such wise together with it, as that in order of causes it is in deed the latter, like as it followeth immediately after the cause that worketh the effect: by reason whereof all things are fathered wholly upon the only grace of God: and yet notwithstanding, God at once and in one self-same moment bringeth to pass, both that through grace we may know, and through grace we do know in deed: that through grace we may wil and through grace we do will in deed and finally that through grace we may do, and through grace we do indeed For the efficient cause in possibility can not be called efficient in working, until it be performed in very deed. Moreover sith there is not taken from man, neither the ability of understanding, nor the ability of willing, as I have said afore but only the ability to understand rightly and to will rightly: it cannot be denied but that at lest wise there is in him a natural together working, because the whereas the first disposing grace is not received but of one that hath understanding & will, and men by nature do generally understand and will: man receiveth the offered grace, not as a block, but as one that is endued with understanding & will, and so farforth as he doth but understand and will, he worketh together with god his maker, at whose hand he hath receyned those natural powers: But in respect that he understandeth well and willeth well: that must be wholly attributed too the newcome grace: whereby it cometh too pass, that he prepareth to make himself ready to understand aright, to will aright, and to do aright, when he hath received the grace: and also that he understandeth, willeth & doth rightly indeed. Quest. And what is it to be thought of Grace effectual by grace. the effects of the first grace. An. That the first grace is effectual, it is to be imputed to God's second grace, for we should straytwaies fall from the first if there followed not another immediately after, to make the former effectual, and so must you proceed on still from grace to grace. Que. But it could hardly be denied, but Of Merit or deserving. that assoon as we have received the first grace, we work together with the rest of the graces following, & so consequently that the later graces are bestowed for merit or desert of the former grace. An. Away with the names of desert, and Rom. 4. 4 1. Cor. 4. 7 merit, which fight full but against grace, how much so ever the half pelagian Sophisters prate to the contrary. He that ●enyeth us to work together with the first grace, denieth the efficacy of the first grace. And look what I have said of the first grace, the same do I say of the graces that ensue. For that the first grace is so effectual, as that we use it well: we may thank the second grace for it. For were not the second grace present, yea & both freely given & freely effectual: we should not only not go forward, but also go quite back again into a far worse state than we were in before. Then as for this toogether working, which (as I said (proceedeth wholly of the insewing grace, what hath it in it that may merit or deserve any recompense at all? Nothing at all: for even then when we after a sort do use it well●… (which thing also, if the matter be well looked upon, is through grace): we do rather use it amiss. I confess then that the faithful servants have Talentes committed unto Mat. 25. 14 them: But yet again it is of men grace that the woorkinge of those Servants is allowed, and that they be taken for faithful Servants, and Rom. 4. 5 finally that reward is given unto them which is not dew unto them in any other respect, than because it was freely promised, and is freely performed. Quest. But I would fain learn this of Of the spreading of original sin into all mankind By learning it one of an other, or by following one another's example. you also: How this corruption is spread to mankind? Namely whither it be by nature or by imitation? An. Forasmuch as you be sure enough, enough it is come in: you should rather have asked how it might be driven out again. Nevertheless because of many noisome errors, I will endeavour to satisfy you in this behalf also. I answer therefore, that the malady is first spread abroad by nature, and afterward confirmed by imitation. Quest. How can you prove that? Ans. By many texts of scripture when Rom. 5. 14. ye will, and specially by Paul's argument grounded upon effects. For even they also do die, which could not imitate Adam, by reason they are not of years of Rom. 6. 23 ●…reaton: but death is the reward ●…inne: ergo all men are in original sin. Quest. What if I should say that the Objection that the death of the body should be but natural and not a penalty of sin. first death (which is the separation of the body and the soul, and the loosening of the same body again into his first grounds,) is natural? For all compounded things are naturally subject 〈…〉 dissolution. An. God himself speaking by Moys● Gen. 2. 17. &. 3. 19 Rom. 5. 12. will disprove you. Besides this, your argument holds not of necessity. For ● though the thing that is compounded may of it own nature be dissolved: yet notwithstanding it is not dissolved in very deed, until the cause that compounded it, do first cease to maintain together. What absurdity then is there in my speech, when I say that man was in such wise created of soul and body yea & that man's body was in such wise compounded or compacted together of the elements, as the creator of them would have maintained them together for ever had not sin stepped in by the way? Quest. I grant then that mortal bodies Of the conveying of the soul. are begotten of mortal bodies. But what is that to the corruption of the soul, o● less thou think that the souls also are conveyed over from one into another Ans. What opinion many of the ol● writers have had concerning this matter, I pass not, neither will I greatly strive about it, so it be agreed upon that original infection is spread into us by nature. Yet think I it not good too d● semble this, that the doctrine of conveying over of the soul seemeth very awk to me: for either must the whole soul, or at lest some piece of it be conveyed over. Now if the whole be conveyed: then doubtless must the parts of it needs be quite dispatched out of hand. But if there be but some piece of it conveyed: how can any piece of it be cut away from an Essence that is most single? Quest If the soul come not of the corrupt Bezaz opinion of the creation of souls. father, but of him that is the father & maker of spirits: how comes it by that corruption? Is it by infection of the body that is knit unto it, like as an ointment the better it is, the sooner it takes a tange of the unclean vessel? Ans. Truly me thinks your reason is sufficient to satisfy all modest wits. But how so ever the case standeth, let this suffice: that like as Adam received the Image of god for himself and his, so lost he it from him and his: and god (according as he had threatened) forsakes their souls as sun as he hath created them and sheded them into the body: whereby it comes too pass, that all of them are born the children Rom. 5. 12 etc. of wrath, namely as heirs of corruption and of their forefather's guiltiness. Que. Now then let us return to the only To be made one with christ is the only remedi of sin, death & damnation That is to say, partaking of christ or being made one thing with Christ. remedy of this mischief, that is to wit, to christ taken hold upon by faith, which is the gift of God. Therefore I would have you to declare unto me what you mean by taking hold, ingreffing, incorporating, & communicating with Christ. Ans. They that imagine there is any joining or linking together of the substances, after what manner so ever they dream it to be: they be utterly deceived and judge fleshly of spiritual and mystical things. again, they that avouch Christ's only operation or efficacy to be the thing whereof we be made parttakers: seem not to have weighed sufficiently the express texts of the scripture, Esay. 9 5. Rom. 8. 32 1. cor. 10. 16 Eph. 5. 30 john. 17. 11 21. 22 wherein Christ himself is plainly said to be given unto us, and also his workfulnesse in us is described. To the intent therefore that this communicating may be understood: me must set down two things. Whereof the first is this: that christ himself is made ours by the benefit of the father, so as all believers may say, this thing (that is to wit, christ the son of god manifested in the flesh (is mine, by the grant and fréegifte of the father, that I might in joy it. Quest. Here I pray you give me leave to A cavil against ou● ownering or possessig of Christ. say a little by the way. Surely he that so speaketh, is owner or master of the thing that was given him: are we then owners or masters of Christ, and not rather he the owner & master of us? Ans. Seeing that the father hath given us unto john. 13. 3. & 17. 10 1. cor. 6. 20. &. 7. 23. jesus Christ, & that Christ himself hath redeemed us by giving himself for us: if any man deny jesus Christ to be the owner & master of us, (yea and that of very good right) accursed be he: Therefore when I say he is ours, that is to wit which believe: I mean not the there is given unto us any superioriti over him, but I say the he is given and born unto us or for our sakes. As for example, a man takes a wife, which must obey him & be seruisable to him: & yet on the other side the wife, may say, like as I am this man's wife, & my father hath given me unto him too have authority over me: so on the other side he is my husband, and hath given himself to me to enjoy him, verily to the end he may love me and cherish me as his wife. Which similitude thou knowest well enough that the prophets and the apostles do ordinarily use to betoken this ●om. 7.1 ●. etc. ●. cor. 11. 2 ●. ph. 5. 15 communicating of Christ. The other point of this communicating, is, that he is ours in such wise, as no conjunction of bodies, whither it be natural or artificial, may be compared with it. Yet notwithstanding, it tendeth not to this end that there should be made but one substance of his & ours, or but one person of his & ours, all which things are most gross forgeries & utterly wide from the kingdom of heaven: but it tendeth to this end only, that his spiritual workfulnes should be the more certain, the more near, & the more effectual in us. And yet by the way this is certain, that he in such wise becometh ours, that he be cometh one thing with us in deed: and the head & members of any body cleave not so fast together by nature, as this conjunction of Christ's is fast and straight knit unto us: insomuch as we be flesh, of his flesh, & Ephe. 5. 30 why our communiting with christ is called spiritual bone of his bones: howbeit it is wholly spiritual and mystical. Quest. I pray you show me why you call it spiritual? Ans. I call it spiritual, not in respect of the thing that is communicated, (for it is certain that Christ is communicated unto us, not only in spirit, but also in his whole manhood) nor also as though this communication were imaginative and consisted only in thought without the thing itself to settle upon: nor finally as though we were said to be become one thing with Christ, only in respect of consent, after which manner Luke says Acts. 4. 31 that the believers where all of one heart and one mind: But because all this taking hold is done altogether by the mind & by faith, & because the holy ghost is the party by whose linking these things are knit together which are so far asunder in respect of distance of place: and that in such wise, as that in this spiritual copulation Christ is as the head, & the church is as Ephe. 4. 15 16. his body, drawing spiritual life from him her only head. And therefore all the whole real growing together of the very substances into one, (about the which so many men have strived now long ago with so much ado, and by means whereof that monstar of transubstantiation and consubstantiation was afterward borough into the lords supper) is a gross forgery of man's fondness, by no means agréeinge either with the spiritual life, or with the verines of Christ's body, or with the proportion of faith. Que. I here well that Christ himself is received of the faithful by faith: I here that the church is spiritually coupled to her head by the bond of the holy Ghost: but yet perceive I never the more, how these things that are so far a sunder should be united. Quest. I grant so. For it is not for naught Ephe. 5. 32 that Paul crieth out, that it is a great mystery. Rightly therefore doth one give warning, that we should rather labour to feel Christ living in us: than to be made privy to the reason of this communion: as which surmounteth our capacity, although we be sure that it is spiritual, and that faith is the instrument in doing of it. Quest. What if we should say that Christ is communicated unto us, only as touching his force and efficacy? and that we should refer this place of Paul's, (we be members of his body of his flesh Ephe. 5. 30 and of his bones,) Unto Christ's incarnation? An. Concerning Christ's being one Christ's being one with us and we with him. with us, so as we may afterward draw life out of him being united with us, the scripture speaketh more manifestly of it that that it may be applied to his only operation or working in us, in as much rather as it is the foundation both of the effectual intercommuning, and of the benefit of imputation, which thing appeareth even by the proportionableness that is between it & bodily nourishment, whereof Christ himself is the author. For like as if a man will receive the nurrishment of bodily food in suchwise as may be to the sustenance of his life: it behoveth him to have it so farfoorth his own, as he may even ●te it: So also to the intent we may suck the iewce of the spiritual and endless life out of Christ, it behoveth us to take hold of him with the mouth of faith, and spiritually as it were to di●st him into us. As for Paul's place ●●●erning Christ's taking of man's nature unto him, it cannot be fitly applied Ephe. 5. 32 to this matter: for according to that: all mē without exception might say they be Christ's members, which thing the Apostle setteth down, as peculiar to the Church alone, and so also doth the resemblance of bodily wedlock import. For every man and every woman are not one flesh: but each man is one flesh with that woman whose husband he is, and each woman is one flesh with that man whose wife she is. And therefore this cupplinge into one flesh, is not of nature, but of covenant: and so also is our conjunction with Christ into one spirit▪ Too conclude, If the Apostle had meant so as you say: namely that Christ hath knit himself unto us but by his Incarnation, and that we be joined unto him but by faith: he should rather have said, that Christ is of our flesh and of our bones. Quest. On forth, I pray you, and show The fruit of our being one with Christ me what we receive by being spiritual made one with Christ through faith as you have said. An. Again we enter into a howge gulf whose wideness, length, & depth (wh●● Eph. 1, 18 6. 9 etc. Eph 3. 8. 9 19 as otherwise it surmounteth our capacity according as the Apostle witnesseth we know so farforth, as the holy ghost wherewith we be endued searcheth the depth of God. He that hath not spared his own Son (says the Apostle) but hath given him for us all, how should he not also give us all things with him? Wherefore I answer that all things needful for salvation flow into us, out of Christ, when we take hold of him by faith. Que. But if it may be, I would have you show unto me particularli which those things be. An. I answer then, that some things are Christ's own in such wise as they cleave always to himself alone, and become not ours but by imputation, of which sort be the things that he hath performed for our sakes, namely that by becoming subject to the law, he fulfilled all rightu●usnesse, and suffered the punishments dew for our sins: both Gal 4. 4 Math. 3. 15 Rom. 5. 19 Phil. 2. 8 which things the Apostle compriseth under the name of obedience. And some things do so rest in christ: as yet notwithstanding the force and operation of them is spread into us: of which sort is Rom. 8 3. 4 the singular puerenesse of the manhood in Christ, garnished with all gifts without measure, which pureness not only becometh Rom. 6. 6 Gal. 2. 20. ours by imputation, but also is the headspring and original of our new birth, and of all the spiritual gifts that accompany the same. Quest What callest thou imputation? Imputation Ans. That benefit of God the father, whereby he vouchsafeth to accounted Christ's obedience as ours, in as ample wise as if we ourselves had fulfilled the law, and made full satisfaction for our sins. Quest. But standeth this with God's nature, that he should accept any man as righteous for another man's righteousness? Ans. In deed it is an other man's righteousness 1. Cor. 1. 30. joh. 17. 20. 21. etc. in asmuch as it is without us, and rests in another subject or person, that is to wit in Christ: and yet is it not another's, in asmuch as the same subject, that is to wit Christ, is ours, yea and also is spiritually become all one thing with us by faith. Quest. Nay truly, if he be become all one thing with us: now it seemeth that what so ever he hath in him, the same is ours in very deed, and not only by imputation. Ans. Certesse were it once granted that Against the doctrine of Transubstantiation the very substance of Christ were become our substance by real copulation and unitinge, (which thing followeth of their opinion that avouch Christ's flesh and blood to be eaten with the very mouth and so to be conveyed into us): then should your saying follow of conse●ence also. Whereby it may be perceived, how greatly the doctrine (as well of transubstantiation as also of consubantiation) fighteth against the doctrine righteousness by imputation, besides at it also taketh away the verinesse of Christ's flesh. I said afore that christ and we be verily made one in deed: howbeit that the same is a mere spiritual mystery, the hand whereof is the holy Ghost, and that the mark whereat it ameth, is not the growing together of the substances or of the persons into one (for to what purpose were Ep. 4. 15. 16 Ephe. 5. 23 at?) But that the spiritual life should by that means flow from Christ the mystical head into his mystical body underneath it. Quest. Let us return too Imputation. An. Contented: and I say that like Christ's right tuousnes is ours by imputation as whatsoever want of righteousness, and whatsoever spottinesse of sin is in 〈…〉 the same is without Christ, and yet is imputed to Christ: So on the other side I say that Christ's obedience is out of us, (as sticking in Christ the only ground of it,) and yet notwithstanding is imputed unto us. And the foundation of this imputation is this, that he is one with us and we one with him, after spiritual way and manner as I said afore, so as he was accounted a sinner not in himself but in us: and we be ●● kened for righteous, not in ourselves but in him. Quest. But it is said that Abraham's fait● Abraham's righteousness Rom. 4. 3. was imputed to him for righteousness and not this obedience of Christ's. An. You know this, that the things which go in order one under another, are not contraries. Faith is said too be accounted unto righteousness, because is the instrument whereby the said obedience whereof the immutation maketh us righteous, is taken hold upon. After Rom. 5. 1. 9 which manner also we be said to be justified by faith, namely in asmuch as it ●eth hold of Christ's obedience, by imputation whereof we be made righteous. Quest. There is yet one doubt behind, we your saying that Christ is taken Objection a 'gainst this that faith is the free gift of God by Christ. hold on by faith, agreeth with that which you said afore when you avouched at all gifts do flow into us from christ taken hold upon by faith. For it seemeth to follow, either that faith is not of the father's gift in Christ, or else that this your latter saying is untrue. For needs must faith go before taking hold, if christ be taken hold on by faith Ans. The beginning of our salvation cometh of God, who first chose us in Eph. 1. 4. Rom. 3. 24. 2. Tim. 1. 9 1. joh. 4. 19 Christ ere we were born, yea and ere ever the foundations of the world were laid and also first loveth and knoweth us in the time of our being born, when as yet we be not given unto Christ and graffed into him in very deed, but are too ●e given and graffed. Therefore if you have an eye to the very instant of the time: we do both believe, and also take hold by belief, upon christ offered unto us, both at once. For the cause of a thing cannot be woorkinge in very deed, vn●se the effect of it come forth together with it. But if ye look too the order of causes, I grant that the trainment of faith (yea of true faith) goeth before the taking hold upon Christ, and● consequently is given, not to them that are already greffed, but to them the are at the point too be greffed into him. Yet followeth it not thereupon that faith is not given unto us in Christ, considering that the heavenly father, setting his determination in his only Son doth not then first behold us in christ when we be given unto him, but ha●● choose us, known us, and loved us in him, yea even before the foundations of the world were laid, & much rather when as yet we hated him: like as christ himself also took hold of us first Phil. 3. 12 Rom. 5. 6 8. 10. to the end that we might take hold of him afterward. Again look. what is begun in us by grace, that we might thereby be greffed into Christ, and therefore as in respect of the order of causes, is done before our taking hold upon Christ● the same is increased and strengthened in us afterward by the same grace in Christ, whom we have now taken hold on by faith. Quest. What then are the things that The things that we attain in Christ. 1. Cor. 1. 30 we attain in Christ? An. Paul concludeth this whole matter most plainly and also most briefelye, when he sayeth that God the father hath made Christ, our wisdom, justification, Sanctification, and Redemption. Que. What mean you, by being made what wisdom is. Luke. 1. 77 our wisdom? An. The self-same thing that zacharie meaneth when he sayeth, that his own son john Baptist is sent to show the knowledge of salvation, that is too say to show Christ himself. For the only Coll. 2. 3. true wisdom, is this which Christ teacheth vnto● men: namely when he discloseth himself unto them, which thing the father also hath testified with loud voice from heaven, saying, here Mat. 17. 5 ●ee him. Quest. Reckon you this among the gifts that we receive by Christ? Answer. My méeninge is that Christ himself is so given unto us to be the only tea●er of that true and native wisdom: as that he teacheth himself unto us. For he is both the teacher and the thing that this is taught. And therefore among Christ's gifts, the very foremost and chiefest is, that he giveth himself unto us, when he furnisheth us with the knowledge of himself. Quest What doth Paul call justification justification. or righteousness. Ephe. 1. 4. in this place? Ans. That whereby we be made righteous: that is to say, so farfoorth perfect, sound, faultless and unblamable: as not only there is quite wiped out of us, whatsoever uncleanness is in us from top too to, whereby God (who is singularly pure) may by any means be offended: but also there is most plentuouslye found in us, whatsoever may so much delight him in this humane nature, as he of his good will may voutchesave to crown with everlasting life. And of that righteousness whereby a man is accounted righteous before God, the certain squéer and invariable rule is james. 2, 8 etc. Gods own law. And the law not only forbiddeth the things that are not to be done, threatening everlasting death for a penalty: but also enjoineth the perfect lovig of god and our neighbour. Therefore that a man may be accounted righteous afore god, there be two things required of necessity: that is to say, the utter absence of all sin, and the fulfilling of all right according to the law. Que. But this was never found in any mortal wight. An. Saving Christ, who not only never sinned, but also performed the whole law to the full. Que. Tell me I pray you, was not christ perfectly righteous even from the very moment of his conception? Ans. In respect of his Godhead he not only was righteous from everlasting, but also the very righteousness itself, that is to say, the sovereign and most perfect pureness. And in respect of his manhood, Math. 1. 20 Luke. 1. 35 he was endued with singular holiness, yea even far above the Angels, even from the very instant of the conception Math. 3. 15 john. 17. 4. joh. 19 30 of his flesh. But now by the name of righteousness, we mean that which followeth upon the perfect performing of gods law, which righteousness christ had not in effect, until he had finished the whole work that was enjoined him. Phi. 3. 9 10 For this is the righteousness, by the imputation whereof we be justified or made righteous: and not the foresaid essential righteousness which is proper to the godhead, nor yet the other natural pureness of Christ's flesh, whereof we 1. Pet. 2. 22. will intrete severally by itself: for want of which distinction, Osiander hath overshot himself to foully. Question. But I see not yet how this righteousness may suffice. For inasmuch as Objection against righteousness by Imputation. we not only perform not the law, but also are overcovered with innumerable sins: how shall we be accounted as though we had never sinned, (that is to say to be undefiled of our sins,) if the spots of our sins be not first washed out? and that cannot be done without suffering of the punishments dew to them Answer. Thou sayest right. Therefore whereas I said that Christ not only broke not the law, but also did most fully and perfectly perform the law: thou must take his so doing to comprehend in especially a satisfaction for all the sins of them that believe: for every man is bound by the law to love god and his neighbour perfectly, not indefinitely but defynitelye, that is to say, as having regard of his own peculiar calling. As for examples sake, if a magistrate love God but as some other private person doth, he cannot be said too have done his duty, because he is bond to love god as a magistrate, which manner of dealing is too be understood of all other kind of callings. And Christ was sent to suffer for us the punishments dew for our sins: which thing he performed all his life long, but specially in that Sacrifice of his, wherein he béecame Phil. 28 obedient to his father unto death, even the death of the Cross. Therefore by woorkinge in suffering, and by offering himself for us, he both fulfilled the law for us, and also made satisfaction for our sins. Quest. But in respect that Christ is become Objection against the sufficiency of Christ's righteousness for any but himself man, it seemeth he was bond by nature to perform the righteousness of the law, that is to say too love God and his neighbour perfectly, because the said law is laid upon the very nature of mankind. And therefore it seemeth that his fulfilling of the law was not for us, but for himself, that he might purchase himself life, which thing cannot be said of the punishments that were to be endured by him for our sins. An. Although we should say, that christ as touching his flesh, purchased himself eternal life by fulfillinge the law whereunto he was bound: yet were it no absurdity to say also, that the force of this desert is so great, that it floweth also even unto the believers. But the former part cannot well be justified. For saying that this manhood of his was joined too the word by personal union, yea and so joined, as it was most holy in itself, who can think (if the said human nature be considered without the charge of mediatorship, which is not of itself coincident too the manhood, but enjoined to the son by the father of his own good will, and willingly undertaken by the son) I say, who can think that there was any default in this manhood which he had taken unto him, so as it should not forth with have been most worthy of the everlasting life, even from the very first moment of the said union? Therefore this his being bound too the performance of the law, is not properly by nature, but of good will: nor simply for that Christ is a man, but because he béecame man for our sakes: which condition he undertook of his own accord, and performed it, not in his own behalf, (for by good right he was most blessed Gall. 4. 45 already) but in our behalf, for whom it was his will to become subject too the law, to the intent to redeem them that were under the law. Furthermore, see how uncertain a saying that is which thou spakest last of all concerning the satisfying for our sins. For that is even the chiefest part of his obedience or fulfilling of the law, as we have proved a little afore. So than if he fulfilled the law in his own béehalfe: you must needs confess that he died for his own sake also. Quest. You say then, that we be justified The parts of righteousness: before god that is to say, that we be counted and denounced righteous, because Christ's obedience is imputed unto us, which consists chief of two parts: namely of satisfaction for our sins, & of full performance of all righteousness of the law. An. I say so. Quest. To what purpose then is Christ Sanctification or holiness. furthermore made our sanctification? for doubtless he that is accepted for righteous, is also accounted for holy. Ans. Whosoever is righteous, must also of necessity be holy: but not contrariwise, (except there come new grace too the former graces) after the manner that we have avouched the term righteous too be taken in this present matter, that is too wit for such a one as not only is not held for a transgressor of the law, because his sins be cleansed away in Christ, but also hath fulfilled the righteousness of the law in him. To be short I say, that this holiness is the goodness and ●. john. 3. 9 uncorruptness of his person: and that this righteousness whereof we entreat as now, and whereof the believers are termed righteous in themselves, is not the righteousness that cometh by imputation, but the imp of that holiness: so as the former is as the tree, and this other is as the fruit of it▪ After this sort was Adam created holy, that is too say, good and faultless, and he had also become righteous if he had kept the law which his creator had appointed him. Que. But all men are corrupt by nature. An. Again except Christ the second Adam Mat. 1. 18 20. Luke. 1. 35 Rom. 8. 3. who was conceived by the holy ghost, too the end that the nature of man might in him not only recover the cleanness which it had lost, but also be advanced too a degree of goodness far higher without measure. For the first Adam was but created after the image of God: but Col. 2. 9 2. cor. 5. 19 the latter Adam is also God, because he is upheld in the everlasting son of god, who hath by unutterable means sanctified the nature that he hath taken unto him: and that is done too the intent the same should also make us holy. Quest. And wherefore do you call christ Christ the second Adam. Rom. 5. 18 19 1. co. 15. 45 the second Adam? An. Because that like as Adam was created too the end that all men should be born of him by natural generation: So christ hath taken man's nature upon him, too the end that all such as believe in him should be spiritually born a new in him by grace. Quest. Was it not enough for us to be Of our double birth born once by natural means? Ans. Yes as appertaining to this life: john 3. 4. 5. in respect whereof it were a folly to think we be born any oftener. But for as much as Adam hath put himself in danger of double death, both for himself and for his offspring: it behoved us either to perish or too be born again into everlasting life after a far other sort. And therefore this other Adam is given us, that both holiness and everlasting life Rom. 5. 18 might flow spiritually out of him into us by grace, like as sin and death were spread into us from the first Adam bodily and by nature. Quest. Layforth yet more plainly this Our sanctification in Christ laid forth more plainly sanctification of ours in Christ. Ans. That thing is said too be sanctified or made holy, which is sorted out from the common uncleanness, that it may be most pure and wholly consecrated unto God the utter enemy of all uncleanness. After this sort is our nature Rom. 8. 3. 4 sanctified or hallowed in Christ, even from the very instant of his conception, and that too the intent to sanctify us: which thing is done two ways. For first, like as I said that we be accounted thoroughly righteous afore god by imputation of Christ's righteousness not in ourselves, but in him too whom we be united by faith: Even so also I say, that by the imputation of his perfect holiness and sowndnesse, our persons are accounted thoroughly holy and sound, and so consequently are acceptable too the father, not in ourselves, but in christ. Further I say, that the force and efficacy of this most pure holiness which is in the flesh of Christ, floweth even in too us by the working of the holy Ghost in us, so as we be hallowed in ourselves, that is to say, we be segregated from the defilinges of this world, and serve God both in spirit and body. Which benefit is everywhere in the scriptures called Sanctification, or holiness, regeneration, or newbirth, Illumination or Enlightening, the new man, the new creature, and the Spirit or spiritualness. Que. you say then, that this latter sanctification, An objection against sanctification by imputatios. is not a thing without us nor ours by imputation only: but a new endowment perfectly greffed & sticking in us, bestowed upon us in christ, by the mere grace of the heavenly father, and wrought in us by the virtue of the holy Ghost An. So say I Que. What need then have we of the other sanctification of our nature which is imputed to us? An. Forasmuch as this holiness that Rom. 7. 25. Gal. 5. 17 sticketh in us, is but only begun in us, according as it appeareth by the continual debate between the flesh and the spirit, even in the best sort of men: Therefore to the intent our persons may be acceptable unto god, and so consequently the thing that proceedeth from us may please him, (for the life of holy men is as it were a continual offering up of themselves, whereunto the Apostle exhorteth Rom. 12. 1 us) there had need to step in a far other holiness, namely the same which is most full and perfect in Christ: at the sight of whom, our most gracious father, (who notwithstanding is a continual enemy to all uncleanness and filthiness,) may hold himself appeased, as he that is both singularly just and singularly merciful. Quest. But why doth he not sanctify us why we be not fully holy in this life. fully out of hand? Answer. Nay rather you may marvel at his goodness, in that he drepeth any little drop of regenerating grace into any man. And yet why he should delay the full sanctifying of us unto another world, there be many causes, whereof the chief are two. The one is, for that we be but of a weak faith, & therefore (as much as in us lieth) we hinder the effectualnes of the holy ghost. The other is, that in as much as we be saved by mere grace & not by works, he that glorieth should glory only in the lord. For 1. Cor. 1. 1●. if this holiness were perfect in us: then should our righteousness also be perfect or cleaving in us, and so consequently Christ should not substantially & properly be our Saviour, but only an instrument to dispose us after such manner as we might afterward justify our selves by our own righteousness, which is flatly the foul & detestable error of the halfepelagian Sophisters. Que. You say then that between our The proportionable resemblance between h● linesse and rightuousenesse. sanctification & our righteousness, there is such a proportionable resemblance, that look how great the one is, so great also is the other. An. Yea in deed. For true sanctification cannot be idle: and such as a Luke. 6. 44 fruitful tree is, such also is the very fruit of it. Wherefore inasmuch as our 1. Cor. 13. 12 understanding is partly enlightened with the knowledge of the true god: we do also partly know him. Forasmuch also as we partly assent to God's promise, and apply the same to ourselves: therefore we do partly believe. And because our will is partly changed: therefore we partly will well & work well. Que. What mean you by this partly? An. That is to say, not perfectly, but only so farfoorth as we be born anew: so as in one self-same ground (howbeit in divers respects) there is cleanness and uncleanness, light and darkness, belief and unbelief, good will, and will declininge from good, and spirit and flesh. Quest. What mean you by Spirit? Spirit An. All the powers in man, aswell superior as inferior, so farforth as they be sanctified or regenerated. Quest. And what call you flesh? Flesh Ans. In a man that is not regenerated, I mean thereby the whole man, even as much as is of him, within and without, from top too toe. And in a man that is regenerated, I mean again all his powers so farfoorth as they be not sanctified or regenerated. 1. john. 3. 6 Of sinning and not sinning 1. joh. 1. 8 Quest. But john says that the children of god sin not. An. The same sayeth also that they are liars which say they have no sin. Therefore they be said not to sin, because that although sin devil in them, yet it reigneth not in them. For the spirit fighteth in them against the flesh, & at length shall get the upper hand. And in consideration hereof, the regenerated only Rom. 7. 15 may rightly say, the evil that I would not do, that do I: and the good that I would do, that do I not. Quest. Even the natural reason that is in Of natural reason & the pour thereof any man unregenerated, doth oftentimes strive against his lusts. And thou knowest that virtue consists in subdewinge the unreasonable part of the mind, unto reason. An. What is to be thought of the Philosophical virtues, I have answered afore. I grant there is a certain warenes, & a certain conscionablenes left in man, to reprove (and after a sort also Rom. 1. 20 Rom. 3. 11 12. to restrain) the headiness of the affections, too the intent that every man may be unexcusable. And therefore as for the philosophical distribution, as it were of the parts of the soul, and the things that the Peripatetikes writ concerning meanness: I not only reprove the not of any untruth: but also praise and commend them as remnants of the image of god. Nevertheless I say, that the distribution of man's parts which the holy ghost teacheth us, is far after another sort, matching the natural man & the spiritual man, the inner man and the outer man, the new man & the old man, and the flesh and the spirit one against another. And in those names by which vice is noted, he betokeneth also even the soverein and overrulinge part of the mind He means Reason which the philosophers make so great account of, and finally whatsoever man hath of nature without the grace of regeneration. Que. Is not reason, reason then? Ans. Yes undoubtedly, and it always becometh better sighted by searching, Reason is ut terly blind in matters concerning god, & maimed in matters concerning ma●. but yet it is always faulty till it be regenerated. For first & formest, even when it understandeth and discerneth the good: it understandeth it not, ne discerneth it not as it aught and should do, by reason on of the original corruption, which the Philosophers could not so much as once ●…istrust. Moreover, in many even of theͤ weightiest matters, it not only seeth not the truth, but also utterly and of set purpose fighteth against the truth. Quest. I beseech you confirm these things with examples. Ans. I will. Although the Philosophers writ many things notably and very excellently concerning God the sovereign good: yet notwithstanding, which of thē●ll hath by his natural insight perceived ●he one substance of the Godhead in the john. 5. 23 john. 17. 8 three people? And yet there is none other knowing of the soverein good, that 〈…〉 either true, or that worketh salvation. Que. But yet it is said, that Trismegistus & specially the disciples of Plato taught ●ome such like thing. Answer. It may be that some men have come to what the knowledge of the old philosopher was as touching God, & how little too be regarded. Rom. 1. 12 ●ome dark knowledge of this mystery ●…eliuered over by the patriarchs & written 〈…〉 holy writings: but away with the toys ●f those men, the seek for the truth of these ●hings in the writings of the philosophers. For when they come to the poinet, to lay ●…rth the nature of god, after they have said many things according to truth, ho●… sodeinlye do the cunningest of them sly● away to fondness, as the Apostle rightly saith? For from whence comes they● multitude of gods? from whence cometh their devidinge of the godhead in●● greater gods and lesser gods? From whence comes the frantyckenesse of the Epicures? From whence comes the stoical necessity too bind even the god▪ head itself? Fron whence hath Aristotle his dotages, dreaming that the world i● without beginning and without ending and taking away all particular providence? And yet I will overslyp other toys innumerable confuted in so many places by Aristotle himself. To whom I pray you may we wite the coming in of all superstitions, but too this noble Over ruler? Furthermore if we come That is too say Reason down unto man: which of the philosophers could know himself, seyinge he knew not the original of the first man and his fall? Yea truly what can be imagined more awk, more brainsik, or more monstrous, than the saying which many men cease not to father upon Aristotle the wittiest of all philosophers, namely that in all mankind there is but only one soul? Besides this, these wise men are not even yet agreed upon the immortality of the soul. And what quareling is there among them about the affections? And if we come down to the mutual duties between man and man: how many things not only fond, but also wickedly and shamefully have the best commended lawmakers of all nations ordained? which of them did even bethink him of the true remedy against the headiness of affections? and no marvel, sing they known neither the causes, nor the effects of that deadly disease. You see therefore that even very reason itself, (so long as it continueth but natural,) is stark blind in the matters of greatest weight. And how many things be there, wherein it not only is blind, but also stark mad? for besides that each of them defendeth those few errors which I have reckoned out of a great sort more, so wilfully as they cannot abide to be taught righter things: That the world should be created of nothing, that the word should become flesh, that any man should be born of a virgin, that we should be counted righteous for another man's righteousness, that the dead bodies should rise again, and many other such things: reason not only admitteth them not, but also loatheth and skorneth them: yea and if you press over far upon her, at length like a bedlam she trampleth all the whole heavenvly wisdom under her feet,, except she be made spiritual by the grace of god. Yea and even then also she ceaseth not too wrestle against the known wisdom, so farfoorth as she is not changed. And therefore I trow you see the thing too be true which I spoke. Quest. But you divines also (be you never Objection of misagreing of the christian di vines so spiritual) agreed not thoroughly among yourselves in all things. An. That cometh not to pass through fault of the scriptures, wherein the points of true religion are set forth plainly and manifestly enough: but we may blame the self-same reason for it, which is both blind and also stubborn. Neither said I that we be regenerated throughly, but only in part: for were we regenerated thurrowlye, we should all of us agree fully too the truth in all points. And therefore I deny not but there remain the remnantes of that ignorant and stubborn nature, but they shallbe done away by little and little. Quest. Well then, let us grant that what soever pure knowledge, or right judgement, or just desire there is in us: the same proceedeth of the mere grace of the heavenly father in his son: but wilt thou not grant that this righteousness righteousness by comparison. which sticketh in us, is righteousness, & therefore also exceptable too God? Ans. I grant it is righteousness. For Math. 7. 17. a good tree bringeth forth good fruit: howbeit, but by way of comparison, that is to wit, if it be compared with such fruits as are rotten in deed. But if the very best works even of the holiest 1. cor. 4. 4 Rom. 4. 2 Tit. 3. 5. men, should be tried by the rule of God's will, that is to say by the law: I say they be sins, and albeit they be not such as fight full but against the law, (such as adultery, stealing, lying, and such like be): yet are they sins because they shrink from that degree of goodness, which the law doth justly exact at man's hand. And therefore as I have said afore, we must rest ourselves upon the only obedience of Christ imputed to us by faith, as the only righteousness that is absolutely perfect and full in all points. Quest. Nay rather, by what right should Objection in excuse of man's unablenes by nature god exact any thing at man's hands, whom he knoweth to be unable to make payment, even by nature whereof he himself is the author? Ans. That we be not able to make payment, it is not of nature, which both would and could yield unto her creator (after whose image she was made) the thing that both he required and she owed, in as much as she was created to the same purpose: but it sprang of the willing corruption of the same nature, which bringeth too pass, that no man either will or ●an acknowledge that debt, and much less pay it. Nay rather, all of us do nothing else but increase that debt. But too speak even after the manner of men: doth any man cease to be a debtor, which through his own fault is not able too Rom. 5. 15 16. etc. pay? Furthermore where the creator may of very good right and duty, require at our hands, that which he doth, yea and peradventure somewhat more too: if he take the same in so good worth at our hands that believe in his son Christ (whom he hath given unto us most liberally and freely) that of his like liberality he géeves us faith also, whereby to take the gifts that he offereth us: who would not rather honour the fathers so infinite goodness, than stand in contention with him? Quest. To God therefore the sovereine A subtle shift to challenge some piece of righteousness un to man. good, be glory & praise everlasting. Nevertheless give me leave to ask you thus much. At leastwise this righteousness that cleaveth unto us, so farfoorth as it hath regard of righteousness, must needs please God who delighteth in righteousness. Ans. I perceive the wiliness, not of you as I think, but of Satan. For inasmuch as he cannot bereave Christ quite and clean of the glory of our salvation: therefore he goeth about at leastwyse to nip of some piece of it: which thing would surely come to pass, if he could make men believe that thing which the filthy Sophisters bear folk in hand: namely that Christ's righteousness doth but simply that which is wanting in our righteousness. Thus therefore standeth the case. God beareth such a love towards righteousness, that whatsoever hath any spark of righteousness and cleanness at all, he alloweth it after a sort: but that is of his own infinite Psal. 5. 5 Rom. 2. 10 goodness, and not for any desert of such manner of righteousness, which is but shadowish. So allowed he the repentance of the Ninivites, and of Achab, although it were no true repentance, but a certain shrinking of themselves under the mighty hand of god. For he is so exceeding good, that he doth good even to them that be most unworthy, and much more too such as be by any means touched with the feeling of his majesty. Then delighteth he much more in the works of them that be regenerated, although they be unperfect. But first I say, that these works of the regenerated do please him, not for any woorthynesse of them, but of the mere grace of the father, who pardoneth that which is missing of righteousness, and accepth that which proceedeth of his own spirit. Again I deny, that our justification, and so consequently that life everlasting shall be given too these works, after one manner (that is to wit as the cause of them), please they God never so much through his mere grace. Rom. 1. 17 &. 6. 23. Heb. 12. 2 For this is a sure ground, that the righteous shall live by faith, and everlasting life is the gift of God. Question. But if they please, they seem worthy A pursuing of the former objection. to please at leastwyse in some behalf? Answete. Most false is this consequence. For God cannot (no not even of covenant) allow any other righteousness, as worthy of that name, than such as is fully answerable to the law in all points, except he willbe repugnant to himself, which thing were a sin to say. Thus therefore oughtest thou too have gathered. The works of the regenerated do please God though they be unperfect: ●rgo God is exceeding merciful. Question. Besides this there is mention made Hire, wages, reward and recompense everywhere of hire, wages, reward, requiting, and recompense, An. The name of Wages hath a larger scope than the name of everlasting life. And it is certain, that God of his passing liberality, rendereth temporal blissinges even too the ungodly, be they never so unworthy. Again whither you refer the name of wages too eternal life, or too other benefits: yet doth it not follow, that the same is paid as dew debt. But rather this doth most of all commend God's mercy, that he vout- Rom. 4. 4 saveth to give the name of Wages, or hire too the undew reward which he bestoweth upon us of his own mere grace in Christ, too the end that we, although we be but unprofitable servants, (for who Luk. 17. 10 is able too bestow any thing upon god?) might notwithstanding perceive, that we have not lost our labour. finally although this wages be promised freely, and given freely: yet is it given to him that worketh and therefore it is called a wages or hire. Of giving to the worker. Quest. If it be given to him that worketh, ergo it is given him for his works. An. Nay rather if it be given, we be sure it is not paid as a duty. Again there is far difference between giving too a worker, and giving for works. I may well say therefore, that eternal life is given to them work, (because faith shall be esteemed, by the fruits of it and righteousness by faith,) but not paid them for their works sakes. And after this manner must that text be expownded 2. Cor. 5. 10 where it is said: Every man shallbe judged according to the things that he hath done in his body, and such other like sentences. Quest. Why so? Ans. Because good works make not works make not men righteous. Math. 7. 17 18. men righteous, but follow him that believeth and that is aredy become righteous in Christ: like as good fruits make not a tree too be good, but a tree is known to be good by the good fruits of it. Que. But a little afore, you fetched good works, not out of justification, but out of Sanctification. Ro. 15. 16 An. I grant it. For there is no man justified by imputation of Christ's righteousness, but he is also sanctified by his spirit. good works be needful to salvation. Quest. Say you then that good works be needful to salvation? An. If faith be needful too salvation, and works do of necessity accompany tre●e faith, as which cannot be idle: surely the other followeth also, that good works be needful to salvation, how beeit not as a cause of salvation, (for we be justified and therefore also do live by faith only in Christ) but as a thing that of necessity cleaveth unto true faith. So says Paul, that those be Gods children, which are led by god's spirit, & john Rom. 8. 14. 1. john. 3. 7 says that those be righteous which work righteousness: And james also declaring, not by what means we be justified, but whereby true faith & instication are discerned, jam. 2. 21 22. proveth by Abraham's example, that those are not justified which utter no works of faith. For in such wise must. james be made to agreed with Paul, too the end it may plainly appear, how they be but brabblers which condemn the necessity of good works for false doctrine. Question. What if a man should never be Of faith that worketh not till it be very late endued with faith till the last instant of his death? for so it seemeth too have happened too the thief that hung by Christ. What manner of good works ●halll such a one be able to bring forth? An. verily the faith of that thief was Luk. 23. 40 etc. unspeakably workful in that short time: for he rebuked the blasphemies and wicked doings of the other thief: he detested his own crimes: with an assured and passing wonderful faith, he acknowledged Christ for the everlasting king, even in the reprochefulnes of his cross, when all his disciples hilde their peace: he called upon him as his saviour: and finally he openly reproved the merciless cruelty and wicked speeches of the ●ewes. But, the acknowledging of sin, the calling upon god the father in christ, and thanksgiving, are the excellentest works of the first table, which cannot be utterly separated from faith in no man. And admit that some man being prevented with death: is able too show no works of the second table: Yet is not the faith in him therefore too be counted idle, because that although it have not Charity in actual deed, yet is it accompanied with it in possibility. Quest. I have yet one doubt more behind. Why any man should be damned for Damninge for evil works. evil works, if no man be justified for good works. Ans. The reason is, manifest: namely because that even the lightest sin that is, deserveth, although not the extremest pains in everlasting death, yet everlasting death itself, which generally is the hire of sin: but no righteousness can worthily deserve eternal life, except Rom. 6. 32. it be such a righteousness as the law requireth, that is to wit a perfect and sound Rom. 3. 20. state. Therefore show me one that fulfilleth the law (as there is none found which is not a breaker of the law) and I will grant the foresaid argument. Quest. say you then that there shallbe Odds or difference in punishment odds in the punishments of the damned sort? An. Although this matter be to be enquired of very soberly: yet have I not spoken it unadvisedly. For besides that the order of justice requireth, that he which hath sinned more greevouslye should be more grievously punished, considering that all sins are not alike heinous, saving so farforth as they match in generality: (for it is a Paradox of the Stoykes, & not of christians, to avouch that all sins be equal) christ himself witnesseth the same thing expressly, saying that Mat. 10. 15. the case of the Sodomites shallbe more tolerable in the day of judgement, than the case of them that had rejected him. Quest. Then shall therebe odds in the Odds in glory. glory of those that shallbe saved. An. Verily so doth the reason of contraries require. And whereas the Apostle sayeth, that such as have sown sparelie 2. Cor. 9 6 shall reap sparelye: it seemeth not that the same should be restrained to temporal blessings only. Quest. But of sowing cometh reaping: Objection to prove that works deserve. ergo righteousness and life proceed of good works. An. Truly, similitudes must never be racked further, than the nature of the things that are treated of, and the purpose of him that useth the similitudes, will bear. For else there will ensue most fond & false things out of number: which thing when unskilful interpreters mark not: they must needs setforth many foolish and false things. But in the foresaid place, the Apostle setteth forth the proporcionable resemblance of works and glory, and not the cause of glory. For in all places he steadfastly defendeth, that righteousness is the mere gift of God, without the works of the law, and is not paid as a due debt, but bestowed upon the believers as a grace. Que. He means but the works of the A popish & Epicurish objection. Rom. 4. 4 Ceremonial law. Ans. A fond answer. For his matching of duty & grace one against another cannot stand unless all the works of the law be excluded without exception: and yet I will overpass other arguments of paul's, which are bend directly against the very law of the ten hests: bend I say, not to deface the law (which is the madness of the Rom. 7. 7 Manichees) but too take away from it the power of justifying. Again I beseech you, if works may be thanked for any manner of righteousness: why should ye exclude the ceremonies that be rightly used? For truly they be comprehended in the sowerth commandment of the ten hests, & as long as they were rightly used, they were most excellent works. Quest. But ceremonies be abolished by Ceremonies abolished by Christ the coming of Christ. An. I confess they be abolished, because they be fulfilled in Christ. But the matter itself declareth that where Paul disputeth of the causes of justification: his reasons tend not to prove that the Ceremonies be abolished, but too show that salvation rested always in the only righteousness of christ imputed to them that believe: & for confirmation thereof, among other things he allegeth the examples of Abraham and David. Quest. Then may we say, that paul excludeth works of preparation. but only the good works that go before the grace of justification. An. Not less fond is this answer also. For besides that the Apostle allegeth manifeestly the examples & testimenies of them that were justified, namely of Abraham and David: to the intent I may Ro. 4. 6. 15 let pass his other reason grounded upon the very nature of the law: what a madness were it to busy a man's self about the excluding of those things, which are not at all? for why? to deem that they wiche are not justified, can d●o any good works: it is no less folly, than if a man should say that a tree can bring forth good fruit, before it be good ●t self. Quest. But although the hire of eternal Objection of reward dew by covenant. life be not due for the worthiness of the very works: yet is it dew at leastwise by covenant. An. What covenant mean you I beseech you. Quest. The covenant of the law, which is, Do this and thou shalt live: And if thou will't enter into life, keep the commundementes. An. How this covenant is to be understood, it is to be seen by the threatening which is set against the promise. And that is this, by the witness of the apostle: cursed is every one that abideth not in Gal. 3. 10 all the things that are written in the book of the law, that he may keep them. But the law requireth perfect love: And no man but only Christ hath ever performed the law to the full: therefore life is dew to none by the covenant, but only unto Christ. As for us, we have it given us by mere grace, from out of him, who also is himself given unto us by why works be called good whereas they merit not. mere grace. Quest. Wherefore call you them good works then, if they deserve not eternal life? An. Surely, the Latin divines, yea even the ancient sort of them, have unproperly used the word Merit or Deserve, in stead of Obtain: and the word Desirt or deserving, or Merit, for a good work: which thing you shall never find in the holy scriptures. Now although the works of the regenerate are not so good as they should deserve eternal life: yet are they good so farforth as they proceed from the good spirit of God, & from a heart that is cleansed by faith. And again they be good, because that by them the lord is glorified, our neighbour helped, and we ourselves also reap this excellent fruit of them, that they be witnesses unto us of our faith, and consequently of our election. Quest. Let thus far then suffice concerning both the parts of Sanctification. Now remaineth that which the Apostle says also, namely that Christ is become our redemption. Ans. By the word redemption, the what is meant by redemption. Apostle meeneth in that place, not the very act of redeeming, but the effect of it: that is too say, the end whereunto the said justification and Sanctification lead us, the which is this: that being redeemed from sin and death by Christ we should also be made partakers of eternal life in him, whose pledge and earnest penny we have even in this life, that is to wit the holy Ghost by whom we be sealed up. Que. But David groundeth this redemption and blessing in the release of sins. Why then add you also the imputation of the sanctification that sticketh in Christ, and his fulfilling of the law? An. What if I should encounter thee with these texts: Blessed are the clean in heart, blessed are the blameless in the way, and such other like? wouldest thou gather here upon, that the releasing of sins is excluded? I think not. So now & then sanctification is meant by the term of justification, because these two go never a sunder. And why may I not make answer thus also? that sometimes there is mention made but only of the releasing of sins, not to the end to exclude all other pates that make men blessed, but by cause the rest are coverfly comprehended under it? And if thou will't urge me yet further: I may also fitly answer, that all the other are meant by the releasing of sins. For who can deny, but that even original sin hath need of clensinge? Ergo it is comprehended in the releasinge of sins. Also who can say that he only is too be taken for an offender that doth some thing which he is forbidden: & not he also which performeth not that which is enjoined him? Ergo not to have fulfilled the law is also sin, which also hath need too be released. Now remain the sins (that is to say the deeds) that are done against the law, whereof there is no question but they have need too be satisfied for. All these are released by Christ's satisfaction which is imputed to us all. Now let us come too the name of Release. That man is properly said to release a debt, which freely yea and utterly dischargeth his debtor, so as he reserveth no action too himself against him. Now then, we be all of us the children of wrath, not only because we be corrupted, or because we fulfil not the law, or because we do the things that are forbidden us: but also because we aught too appear pure before God, such as he made us: and not only not too be transgressors of the law, but also to be performers of the law. Therefore too she end that we, who else must perish, may have full & perfect release of all sins: this foresaid release must of necessity match with the other release whereof we spoke afore, which taketh away but the one part of our sins. And we have found both these releases in Christ whom we have taken hold on by faith: who not only hath suffered for all those sins of ours, but also hath fully sanctified our nature in himself for us, & fulfilled all righteousness therein for us, so as we not only be set free by him from death, but also obtain the reward of everlasting life in him. Question. You conclude then, that all things necessary The conclusion of the things afore said for our salvation are found in Christ alone, too whom we cleave by faith, so as there is no damnation for them that be greffed in Christ. Ans. I conclude so in deed: yea and also that the same is the only knowledge of salvation. Quest. You say also that this faith is the Acts. 16. 14 Ephe. 2. 8 Phil. 1. 29 gift of god bestowed upon us of his own mere grace, & therefore that the first entrance of it is of god & not of ourselves. Ans. I say so. Quest. Then I pray, let us search to whom To whom faith is given it is geeuen. For the thing itself witnesseth, that it is not given unto all men in as much as the believers have always been so few. An. Yet doth it not follow, but that it is offered unto all men. And therefore it seemeth that we should first seek whither it be offered too all or no. Which demand will lead us to the very headspringes, that is too wit too providence and predestination. Quest. Be it so: and therefore I pray you show me what you call Providence. Ans. I mean by it, not only that unspeakable What providence is. power, whereby it cometh to pass, that God hath foreseen all things from everlasting, and most wisely provided for all things before hand: but also that eternal decree or Ordinance of the most wise and righteous god, whereby every thing that hath been, hath been: and every thing that is, is: and every thing that shallbe, shallbe, according as it liked him too appoint from everlasting. Que. Say you then that this Providence is the bringer to pass and the disposer of all things. Ans. It is so, and that in such wise, as it The prero gative of Providence. deserveth some excellenter name, than to be called a cause. For this is it that ordereth all causes, and ruleth even the particularest fallings out of them, so as they may be guided to their appointed ends. Quest. But there be some Angels evil, Objection against god's Providence. and men are evil by nature, and what so ever proceedeth from either of these (except it be from men that be regenerated) must needs be evil, as the thing that proceedeth from an evil beginning: but god cannot be the author of evil things. Ergo he is not the author of all things, considering that so many evil things are to be excepted. Ans. As well each one of the Angels (for Note this there can no offpring be granted in a spiritual nature) as also the first people of mankind, (that is too wit Adam and Eve,) were created good. And therefore Another objection against the same. none of them both are too be displaced out of God's ordinance. Quest. Admit it be so, as touching that original and first state of there's. But sing they be now corrupted and full of lewdenes, how can you bring them within the compass of that eternal ordinance of god which is so workefull, but you must wrap god up in their naughtiness? Ans. Do you suppose it could stand with equity, even by the judgement of themselves God's providence resembled by a clock (be they devils or be they the wickedest sort of men,) that they should therefore be exempted from subjection too their maker, because they have been stubborn ageinste him? And yet must this needs follow upon your saying. But thus standeth the case. I pray you did you never behold a clock, wherein a certain wheel greater than the rest turneth to the right hand, and carrieth all the rest about with him, some to the right hand, and other some too the left hand, with a mere contrary motion one to another? Quest. Yes: & truly I have wondered oftentimes, that man's cunning should be able to represent too mine eyes, the thing that man's mind is scarce able too attain unto in the compasses of the skies. An. Assure thyself that the same is a true image of the divine providence, so thou except this thing whereunto nothing can be found fully like, not not even in the compasses of the skies, and much less in those handwrought Instruments, because nothing is equal, not nor (to speak properly) like unto the highest (namely, that God almighty whom I now compare too the greatest wheel which is the mover of all the rest) is in such wise in the world, as that he is no part of the world, and yet hath given selfmoving too each one of the wheels that move themselves: and that in suchwise, as he himself is by no means moved, and yet moveth all things according too his eternal providence. And this mystery of God's providence was represented to us by god's appointment in the vision of Ezechiell, wherein we have this to mark Ezechiel. 1 5. etc. further, that those fourfold images were overcovered with wings, & the wheels folded one within another, and that God was plased highest above all things: lest we might surmise the mover himself to be moved together with the causes, or lest we might overcuriously imagine ourselves able to perceive the reason of those several movings. This foundation being laid, I Answer three things. The first is, that the instruments which have life & are endued with reason, (of which sort be Angels and men) are so stirred by god their maker: as that they also stir themselves by an inward self-moving of their own, and therefore that in the bringing to pass of one action, there meet two causes, that is to wit god who is dissevered from the Instrument and yet giveth the Instrument beginning to move itself: and the very instrument moving itself. Another is, that these instruments are so moved by God, as that he himself stirreth always well, but the instruments, (if they be evil) go a contrary motion, that is to say, always amiss: but if they be good, so as the first author who moveth always well, and the instrument which moveth it, do agreed: then followeth a good and commendable work. The third is, that god so moveth the evil instruments, (for it is they only whom we have now in question) & they on the other side are so moved by themselves, that by reason of the dublem●ning beginning, there is also a double work, (which seemeth notwithstanding to be but all one,) and the same is good in respect of the good beginning, and evil in respect of the evil beginning. Quest. I would have these things enlightened with some examples. Ans. I will so, and that with assured and Examples of God's providence. evident examples: but first I will put to this distinction. That God the notable workmaister, using the evil instruments well whatsoever they be, doth either match them one against another, or benefit the good by the service of them: & whither of these two things so ever he doth, no man the is in his right wits will deny but it is good, namely either to punish the bad, or to benefit the good. Now let us allege examples. That joseph came joseph. Genn. 45. 7 &. 50. 20 by God's providence into Egipte, and was advanced there unto great pre-eminence, that he might be the preserver of the Church: both he himself sayeth it, and the matter itself declares it. And what instruments did the lord use too the compassinge of the matter? Satan an instrument of God's providence. Even Satan who stirred his brethren against their most innocent brother, the very wicked intent of the same brethren, the covetousness of the merchantmen, and the lust of a most mischievous woman. All these sinned most grievously, in asmuch as they were the beginners of their own doings. But God, using well those most ungracious instruments which thought upon no such thing, defended his servants from the famine, settled them in a fruitful soil, nurtured his faithful servant joseph, and finally advanced him too the highest degree of honour. Is it not a most rightful work of god's justice, that naughty people should fordoo themselves? So punished he the Madianits, using theruntoo Madianit●● judg. 7. 22. the spirit of discord, and the ungracious wilfulness of the murderers themselves, so as they made assault one upon another, doubtless with a wicked mind, 2. Kings. 12 22. Achitophel 2. Kings. 15 34 &. 17 14 23. Absalon. but yet by the rightful justice of God. It was good that David should be chastised, even after his sin was acknowledged and forgiven. It was good also that Achitophilles treachery & Absalon's traitorous mind should be discovered and sorely punished. To the performance of these matters, the lord useth the outrage of sathan, Achitophells own falshartednes and Absalon's own traitorous ambition, horrible lechery, and unnaturalnes: by which evil instruments the lord executed many things exceeding well. For he showed how much he misliketh whoredom and craftiness: he chastised 2. kings 17. 23. 2. Kings. 18. 9 etc. David fatherly: he punished Achitophel by his own hands: and finally he made Absalon to cast away himself. The scripture beareth witness, that our being tried and consequently our chastisement is of 1. Pet. 3. 17 1. thes. 3. 3. 4 Gal. 6. 14. 2. cor. 12. 9 the good will of our heavenly father, that thereby he may be glorified and his power made perfect in our weakness. And except we be of that mind: what comfort is there for the godly in so great miseries? For in the trial of job after this manner, there is used the spitefulnesse of Satan, and the covetousness and excessive cruelty of the robbers. Satan therefore did sin in heaping so many miseries upon the servant of god: and the robbers did wickedly in stealing away another man's goods. But the Lord did exceeding well in triing his servant and in shewing the all satans attempts against the church are in vain. finally you will not deny, but that the excellentest of all God's works, was the re-emption of mankind. For the father delivered Act. 2. 23 &. 4. 28 Rom. 8. 22 Eph. 5. 25 his own son for our sins, by his foredetermined purpose, and by the foreappointment of his eternal ordinance, according as Peter & the church of jerusalem say, and the father is he that hath not spared his own son for our sakes. And what manner of instruments hath he put too the performing of so The Instruments of Christ's death great a matter? Surely the worst that could be (for no good man could have found in his heart too pursue a guiltless person, and much less to betray him, condemn him, & crucifice him): Namely even the malice of Satan who was entered into the heart of judas, the cursed covetousness Luke. 22 3. 4. john. 12. 6 Mat. 27. 18 john. 19 8 and treason of judas himself, the most desperate envy and unrecoverable malice of the jews, and finally Pilates niceness and untoward dealing. So is there none of these which sinned not moste heynouslye, and all of them were paid afterward with most sore punishment at God's hand for the same. And yet in the mean while, by this self-same work he saved us from sin and death. Que. But hereby there seemeth not any Objection against the foresaid examples. other thing to be gathered, than that the purposes of evil persons are turned by God to a contrary end. An. Yes: hereby also it is concluded, that God moveth even the evil, well & effectually, to bring his own work to pass by them. But you must bear in mind that which I have said: namely, that god doth in such wise move evil people well, too bring his own good work about, not as a hammer or a hatchet in aworkemans' hand, which are tools that can do nothing at all of themselves: but in such wise as the evil people do also move themselves ill, too will amiss and to do amiss, because that they themselves are the woorkinge causes of their own evil doings. Now also this must be added, that God (truly) worketh in the good and by the good: and that he works by the evil, but not in the evil. Quest. What difference then is there Difference between ●● and By in these little words? Ans. Undoubtedly great. For God useth both the one and the other as instruments as oft as he listeth: and therefore he is rightly said too work his work as well by the one as by that other. But God worketh in those only, whom he breatheth upon with his holy spirit, and whom he ruleth with his holy spirit Rom. 8. 14. 1. cor. 12. 11 Eph. 1. 11 either strengthening them in goodness (namely the Angels, and the men that be regenerated) or else indewing them with new goodness, as when he sancti●teth joh. 14. 17 Rom. 1. 26 &. 28. 2. tim. 2. 2● his servants first of all. But as for the rest, he worketh not in them by doing any thing within them himself: but giveth them up to be moved and misruled partly by their own, lusts and partly by the devil, howbeit in such wise as their lewdness can neither will nor work any thing, but that which he ●ath most rightfully ordained. Question. Permission or sufferance. What think you then of the name of permission or sufferance? Answer. If by the name of Sufferance, there be meant that difference which I spoke of even now, namely that God worketh not in the evil persons, but leaveth them up to Satan and to their own lusts: I myslyke it no whit. But if Sufferance be matched against willingness, I reject it, first as false, an● willingness. secondly as utterly against reason. That it is false it is manifest by this, that i● god suffer anything to be done against his will, then surely is he not God, that is to say Almighty. But if he be said to suffer a thing as though he were reche● less: how far are we of from the opinion of Epicure. It remaineth then, that look what he suffereth to be done, he suffereth it willingly. Willyngenesse therefore is not to be matched against Sufferance. Again if it be false it must needs also be against reason. And I say that this absurdity may appear sufficiently too any heedful person by this, that the Authors of the distiction whereby Sufferance is matched against willingness, do by that mean not only not attain to that which they would, (that is to wit, that god should not be accounted the author of evil, which thing we acknowledge with all our hearts) but also bring the flat contrary too pass. For who is more in fault than he, which a great way of foreseeing a mischief that is too come, and being able too disappoint the same with his only beck not only disappointeth it not, but also suffereth it that is to say giveth leave to execute the mischief, (for not even they that be of that opinion, do deny, but that Satan (and much rather wicked men) have not any power to do any mischief, but by appointment) in case as if a man having a cruel Lion shut up in a cage, might with ease keep him in from hurting folk and yet not only would not, but also would let him lose and suffer him to run upon this man or that man? Perchance thou will't say, that so men's sins deserve. I grant it. Yet notwithstanding it remaineth still, that God's willingness matcheth with his sufferance, (like as when a Magistrate delivereth an offender into the executioners hand, appointing him the manner of his punishment) and therefore that there is no reason to say, that sufferance striveth against willingness. Quest. What then? do evil people How evil people perform Gods will. perform Gods will. Ans. If you take will in his general singnification, that is to wit, for that thing which God hath willingly determined too have come too pass, and refer the word Do, not too the intent and purpose of the wicked, but too the very falling out of the matter: then surely God executeth his will (that is to say the thing that he hath determined from everlasting (even by the wicked also: according too this saying, who shall resist gods will? But if that by the name Rom. 9 19 of Will, ye mean the thing that of itself is acceptable unto God, and will have the word Do, too import a right affection of obeying: then truly I answer, that the wicked sort, not only Psal. 5. 5 Mark. 3. 35 do not Gods will, but also are carried wholly to the contrary part. Quest. Surely I have not any thing too allege against it. Notwithstanding, I Objection against providence, because God created all things good come back again too that which you have answered: namely that God created all things good at the beginning. From whence then comes their faultiness? For if it entered without God's appointment, then is your saying impeached: namely that nothing at all is exempted from god's Providence, not not even from his working providence. But if God's appointment forewent it: (I speak it not of purpose too blaspheme him) how is he not the author of all evil? Ans. The cause of the faultiness of the Angels and of the first man, was the willing inclination of their own wills unto evil. For god had created them but chaungeably good: for, too be of itself unchangeably good, is peculiar only unto God alone. Que. Then both the Angels that never fallen nor never shall fall, and also all they that shallbe gathered up into everlasting life, should be Gods. Ans. I deny the consequence. For, that Why the blessed Angels never fallen nor never shall. the blessed Angels never fallen nor never shall fall, and that there shall not be any end of their everlasting blessedness: it cometh not of their unchangeable nature, (for that is peculiar unto God alone) but because they be continually underpropped with the power of the unchangeable god: which power if it should forsake them (as forsake them it might if god would) then doubtless might they not only be changed, but also utterly banish away & be brought to nothing. And therefore I have said, that the cause of faultiness is the willing inclination of the will (which was made good in deed, howbeit yet able too be changed) unto evil. For the said will was changeable, by God's ordinance who created it so, because that otherwise look how many unchangeable natures he had made, so many Gods had he made. And changed it was at Gods forsaking of it (for too whom is he bound) but yet by changing itself of it own accord, so as the cause of faultiness may seem to be imputed, rather to forsaking, than to infor●inge. Quest. But if this change happened not An objection that God should be the author of evil without god's foredetermination, verily it may seem that all this inconvenience is to be fathered upon him. Ans. That followeth not, forasmuch as god's determination took not away the will of the first man, & so also neither his advisement or choosing, but only ordered it. For he was changed by falling utterly of his own accord, which thing is to be understood much more of the falling of the Angels, whose faultiness krept upon them from at home, and perhaps that was the cause that moved God to have pity upon men which fallen by the stepping in of the devil, and not too have pity of the devil and his Angels. Quest. But otherwise it could not come to pass, than god had ordained should come to pass. An. I grant both. For neither were it reason that the said everlasting ordinance (wherein I showed a little erst, that all things and every thing without exception, are comprehended) should be shut out from the changing of the chief piece of work. And too ●●uouch that such manner of ordinance were changeable, it were a point of wickedness. Let both o● them therefore be most true. Yet doth it not thereupon follow, either that then fault is in God, who (as I said) doth always well yea even then also when his instruments offend: or that man is without fault, as who hath not offended but willingly. For this necessity where through the thing that god had ordained must needs come to pass, hath not taken away either will or happening, but rather hath ordered and disposed them: considering that among the causes of men's doings, even the chiefest cause is will. Quest. Your meaning then is, that the The necessity enforceth not man's will. necessity of chosig that which god hath ordained from the beginning repugneth not against will. But happening is said to be that which may either fall out or not fall out. An. Yea and I say more plainly, the willingness or happening are not taken away by necessity, but by compulsion. As for example: It was of necessity that Christ Math. 26. 54. 56 john. 13. 11 18. should die in the age, time, and place fore ordained from everlasting, for else the Prophets might have lied. And yet if ye have an eye too the natural disposition of Christ's flesh by itself, without the foredetermination of God: there is no doubt but by nature he might have lived longer, and therefore that in that respect he died by hap. Christ's bones might have been broken, if you look upon the nature of bones by themselves: but joh. 19 36 if ye look unto God's ordinance, they could no more be broken, than it is possible that God should altar his determination. And therefore the unchangeable necessity of God's ordinance, doth not take away the happening of the second causes, but dispose it. Also it Acts. 17. 3 was of necessity that Christ died by the ordinance of his father, & yet he died willingly: yea and God forbidden that ever we should dye unwillingly, who notwithstanding must of necessity die once. And what more? God himself is most freely, yea & most willingly good: and yet is it utterly impossible that he should not be good. Ergo willingness and necessity are not repugnant. For whereas it was of necessity that of two repugnant things Adam must choose but the one: although none of them both was within the compass of his own will: yet surely the one of them was set down in the everlasting ordinance of God, which ordinance was both out of Adam's will and above his will, & yet compelled not his will: but rather forasmuch as his will could not take both of them, it willingly and of it own accord inclined finally too that part, which the ordinance of god had foreset. Quest. But surely, that necessity which is Necessity of sinning excuseth not sin entered in together with lust, into man's heart, in such wise as he cannot but sin, (according as thou hast declared afore) seemeth too take away happening. An. Although I should grant it too be so, yet cannot men be exempted from blame: first because this necessity of sinning wherewith mankind is now overwhelmed, cometh not of the Creat●▪ but of the willing inclination of man's natural will unto evil, as I said afore. And who will think it strange, that he should be burned, which hath willingly cast himself into the fire? Again, although it be not of hap but of necessity, that man is now carried unto evil, (considering that sith he is corrupted by sin, he is (as the Apostle saith) become the bondslave Rom. 7. 14 john. 8. 36 of sin, and so remains till he be set free by the son of god) yet notwithstanding, that which he doth, he doth it willingly Rom. 8. 7. and unconstreined. For like as he cannot but do evil, so also he delighteth not in any other than evil, albeit that the evil lurking sometime under the colour of good, do make him take it for good. And therefore not even this necessity which was brought in by willing fall, taketh away the willing moving of the will. Which thing being granted, it followeth that man is verily the cause of sin, inasmuch as although he sin of necessity, yet he sinneth willingly. And yet say I not that happening is taken away by this necessity nother. For although that in man which is held bond under necessity of sinning and is not yet regenerated, there remains now no deliberating whether he may choose the true good, or the evil, as there was in man's nature afore his fall: yet notwithstaning there remains a deliberating between evil and evil. For where the case standeth not upon choice of this or that, there is no deliberating or debating. Now then, even the headiest and hastiest men that be, do deliberate: but neither can they understand any thing, nor thing any thing, and therefore much less deliberate of any thing but either with straying from the good, or else plainly against their conscience: ergo all their deliberating is busied about the choosing between two evils or mother. And their preferring of the one or the other, cometh altogether by hap as in respect of their own voluntary will, which happening the unchangeable ordinance of God doth no more take away now in men corrupted, than it took it away in old time in mankind uncorrupted. Qu. The sum then of the things which The conclusion of the discourse concerning providence thou hast spoken concerning providence is this: that nothing in the whole world cometh too pass against God's will or without his knowledge (that is to say▪ rashly & casually) but altogether in such wise as God himself hath ordained them from everlasting, disposing all the mean causes most mightily and effectually, so as they be carried on to their appointed end of necessity as in respect of his ordinance: and yet that he is not an author or allower of any evil, because he dealeth always most rightfuly, with what instruments so ever he execute his work. An. So it is. Quest. This is yet again the thing that troubleth me. For although I see that God worketh rightefully by the evil sort: yet not withstanding, if all and every thing be done by gods eternal or dinaunce, so as nothing at all may be excluded: than it remains that the evil doings of the evil persons, even Of fatherige evil upon god. in respect that they be evil, are not exempted from God's ordinance, which thing me thinks cannot be said without wickedness. An. Neeedes must he be sore troubled & to no purpose which laboureth to comprehend gods wisdom within the bounds of his own reason. For I pray you, if you would go about too contain the whole Ocean in a drinking Cup, what should you else do but only loose your labour, & be counted a fool for so doing? And yet more tolerable (though not too be talked of) is the proporcioninge between the main sea and the lest cup that can be, than between god's wisdom, and the foolishness of man's most corrupt wit. Nevertheless, I suppose that this which thou obiectest may also be fitly answered unto. Therefore I grant thee even this also, that the evil works of evil men, even in that they be evil in respect of themselves, are not done against gods will or without his knowledge: for were it so, then should either Godlessness or else Epicurishenes follow of necessity. But I say further, that if thou have an eye too God's ordinance: the very evil itself hath a respect of goodness, although, it be evil in itself, so as this Paradox of Augustine's is very true namely that it is good also that there should be evils, too the end that God should not suffer evils to be: and truly in not suffering: he is not unwillinge, but willing. Quest. What then? Shall we say that god willeth none iniquity. God willeth iniquity? An. God forbidden for it is the horriblest of all blasphemies to say so. But stay thyself awhile I beseech thee, that I may expound that which I have said so truly and godlily as it cannot be denied, but god must also be avouched not to be the judge of the world. The name of Will is taken sometime in the largest signification, for that which god ordaineth or appointeth. In which signification we must utterly say, either that god willeth all things, (that is to say that nothing cometh to pass which God will not have done): or that God is not almighty, if never so small a thing come to pass which he would not have done: or else that god regardeth not all things, if any thing come too pass he cares not how. And sometime by the name of Will there is meant only that which liketh him because it is good of it own nature: and after this manner the faith full only are said too obey God and too execute his will, because that in this sense God is said too will (that is too say too Psal. 5. 4. allow and except) only that which is good, and not too will iniquity. Which will of his is uttered fully unto us in his law: but his other will is not so, but in part. For who knoweth what shall befall but this one day? And nothing shall béefall but that which God hath from everlasting both willed and ordained too befall. Quest. Can God be thought too have How God willeth or not willeth evil. willed or ordained any thing which he misliketh, and so consequently which is evil? Ans. Truly it must needs be confessed, that whatsoever god hath ordained, it is ordained altogether willingly: but even herein also appeareth rightly his infinite wisdom, that with him even the darkness hath a respect of light, (yea and that in such wise, as it nevertheless both is & continueth darkness still) that is to say, it is good that there should be also some evil: because god finds the reason how it may come too pass, that the thing which both is and continueth evil still of it own nature, may nevertheless have a respect of goodness before him, and how the thing that is against his will, (that is to say, which of it own nature is unrightuous, and therefore pleaseth not God) may not come to pass without his will, that is to say, without his ordinance. As for examples sake. That God saveth his elect by redemption freely given in his son Christ, it is too his own exceeding great glory, which otherwise should not have shone forth. But man should not have needed redemption from sin and death, except there had been sin and death: Ergo in respect of God's ordinance it was good that sin and death should enter into the world. And yet the same sin, both is and continueth so sinful of it own nature, as Rom. 5. 15 amendss could not be made for it, but by most terrible punishment. Again we recover much more in Christ, than we forewent in Adam: Ergo Adams fall was the best and profitablest thing that could be for us, as in respect of God, who by this wonderful mean prepareth a kingdom of everlasting glory for us in Christ: & yet this fall is so evil of it own nature, that even we that believe and are justified, do feel many mysteries and mischances which springe of it, even too the death. Also it is grealy to the glory of god, that he showeth himself a most sore punisher of all sin. But if there had been no sin there had been no gap open for this judgement to come in at: Ergo in respect of god's ordinance, it was good that there should be sin, and that the same should afterward be spread abroad, too be punished with everlasting pains in the devils and in all that be set without Christ. Also Saint Peter sayeth, It is 1. Pet. 3. 17 the will of God, (that is too say it is his ordinance) that when we do well, we should be misintreated. But he that ●ooth well, cannot be hurt but by sin: Ergo in respect of God that willeth it, (that is to say which ordaineth it) it is good that there should be persecutors of the Church, whom notwythstan●ynge he justly punisheth afterward most severelye as offenders against ●is will, that is to say as doers against that which he alloweth. Therefore even by the express words of the Apostles, the thing that is against Gods will (that is too say against that which he alloweth and commandeth) cometh not to pass without his will, that is to say without his ordinance: and yet can it not therefore be said, that god is contrary to himself, or that he willeth iniquity: according as Austin doth rightly conclude against julian, out of the word of god. Quest. Therefore it seemeth right that Of sufferance & willingness. sufferance should be distinguished from willingness. An. What I deem meet to be thought of this distinction, I have spoken a little afore. Truly if Sufferance be matched against Will, that is to say against ordinance: such oversetting is not only false but also foolish and fond, considering that even in such actions as are not of free choice by themselves, (as for example; when marchantmen that be in danger do cast out their goods, and generally as often as men choose the less evil too avoid the greater inconvenience) even the heathen men ackowledged free will too bear sway. But if Sufferance be matched against willingness, that is to wit against that which God is willing withal, as well liked and accepted of him by itself & of it own nature: so as the thing that is good of itself may be matched against that which is good but by well falling out, and which hath some respect of good in it, not of it own nature, but in respect of the end that it is guided unto by God, through whose incomprehensible wisdom, even the darkness doth service unto the light: then truly I admit it, so that this also be added to it, namely that the same is not a vain and idle sufferance (as a number dream) but a most workful; and yet nevertheless a most rightful Sufferance. for the better understanding whereof, take the matter in few words too stand thus. I think thou wilt not say that a judge is but as an idle loker on, when upon the hearing of a transgressor's case he delivereth him too the Shreefe too be put too this kind of punishment or that. For surely the Shreefe doth not so much put him too death, as he is the instrument of the judge that putteth him too death: so as if any cruelty be extended in that behalf by the sentence of the judge, the same may be imputed not so much too the executioner, as too the judge that commanded him. Quest. I grant all this. But how many Objection against the foresaid allegations unlikely hoddes be there between these and the things that we entreat of? Ans. I confess that. For else there should be no difference or at leastwise very small between a like thing and a same thing. Nevertheless I would have y● r●●ken up at leastwise the chief of them, that I may answer to them one by one. Quest. In the sentence of judges there goeth trial before: but in these things whereof you entreat, there is oftentimes no such thing perceived. An. How many things are done justly by the magistrates of this world, the trial whereof is not seen of their subjects? And will't thou attribute less unto God, who searcheth thoroughly all things the lie hid even in the bottoms of man's hearts, as well past as too come? Quest. The Shref doth nothing but by commission received. But where have the wicked me received any such commandment as to kill one another, or to hurt good men An. In this thou art deceived, that whatsoever god appointed to be done, thou imaginest him to give knowledge of it with some loud voice, unto them whose service he purposeth to use in the dooinge of it. But experience itself teacheth, that that is not always true in neither of both the cases: that is too say whither he have determined to use mercy or to use justice: no not even then when he useth instruments that have understanding. For who doubteth but that Pharaoh was ordained Gen. 45. 8 Psa. 1 c 5. ● of God to entertain joseph, and too prepare harborow for his Church? And yet he received no such commandment outwardly, not nor so much as thought of any such thing in himself. Nevertheless that was ordained of God, and the covert motion of Pharaos heart tended too the executinge of that which the Lord had ordained. That the Chaldies' were ordained to punish the evil Israelites, & to narture the good, the prophets had foretold it a thousand times, yea and that in such wise, as Nabuchadnezer had received express commandment conceruinge Iere. 25. ● the same thing: in so much as the Lord doth also call him his servant. Yet did not the lord command the Chaldies' any such thing by name: but (as Ezechiell writeth,) giving over the king's Ezechi. 21 21. etc. heart partly to Satan and to his Soothsayers, and partly to his own lusts, he inclined him of his own sway to perform that which God had determined. How much more must we believe the same to be done, as often as the lord useth the things that want reason, or also that be utterly without life, as his executioners? For so did he call the Flies, Frogs Exod. 7. 18 Gressehoppers, Hail, and death too punish Pharaoh. So also sayeth the wisest Prou. 16. 33 of all men, that even the very Lots fall not out at adventure. For all things serve by a secret motion, to execute gods ordinances. But this difference there is, Difference between the good in strumentes & the bad in executing Gods will. that the good instruments do nothing but through faith, (that is to say upon assurance that they be called to that which they do,) and with a mind settled too obey. But as for the evil instruments, forasmuch as they be led with a blind bayrde by Satan and their own lusts, and have an eye too nothing less than to the obeying of God, against whose express word they either know or aught too know that all their intentes and purposes do fight: therefore they serve not the Lord, although God do secretly use the travel of them, even against their wills, in such wise as they do not any thing else, than that which the wonderful woorkn●aister himself hath ordained. Quest. Then let us stay here concerning Gods eternal providence, from the which I see not that any thing at all may be exempted: and let us (if it please you) proceed to predestination, which I would first and formest have described unto me. An. Predestination being considered in what predestination is. general, is nothing else but the same thing that we have called gods determination or ordinance, howbeit as having regard to the end or work of the very ordinance. For there is nothing which the wise creator of all things, (who doubtless hath neither made any thing ●naduisedlye, nor can be deceived or ●lter his purpose,) hath not ordained ●othe too middle ends, and specially ●oo some one uttermost poyncte of all. But custom hath won, that predestination is considered chéefelye in the governinge of mankind. Thus therefore do I describe it. I say it is gods everlasting and unchangeable ordinance, going in order before all the causes of salvation & damnation, whereby god hath determined too be glorified, in some by saving them of his own mere grace in Christ, and in othersome by dampning them through his rightful justice in Adam and in themselves. And after the custom of the scripture, we call the former sort the vessels of glory and the elect or choose, that is too say folk appointed to salvation from before all worlds through mercy: and the other sort we call reprobates or castaways, and vessels of wrath, that is to say appointed likewise too rightful damnation from everlasting: either of both which, God hath known severally from time without beginning. Question. But it is a hard case too say, that A worldly & over scrupulous doubt there be some foreappointed to damnation, and therefore thou knowest that many refer the word predestination only too the choose, and that they say rather that the Reprobates are foreknowen. An. I Enough what that means. Many were afraid lest they should make god the cause of the destruction of the reprobates, and also report him too be cruel, if they should confess that the reprobate also are predestinated of God. But they needed too have feared none of both, as shallbe showed in due place. Again, that is but a fond startinghole. For if foreknowledge (as they call it) carry the force of a cause, no less than predestination doth: then say they that which they would not say. But if it have not: them may they also say the God is not the cause of the salvation of them that be predestinated. For why? The Apostle in reckeninge up the Rom. 8. 19 causes of the salvation of the choose, setteth down πρόγνωσις (which these men Acts. 2. 23. interpret foreknoweledge) in the first place Yea and Luke setteth down the same foreknowledge as the ground work of Augustin de Civit. Dei lib. 19 ca 1. our redemption. Rightly therefore doth Austin acknowledge predestination on both sides, although he do now and then shoal out the predestinate sort from the foreknowen. But let us away with this strife about terms. My meaning was only too show that I had done aright in setting down predestination for a general term, whereof there be two particular Two sorts of predestination sorts, which notwithstanding do meet together (and that is a thing inespecially to be marked) no less in the end, than in the head and original beginning. For the headspring of them both is the ordinance of God. And both the ways (which are as it were cut out from this head,) do meet again in the uttermost point, that is too wit in the glory of God. These things being set down, too the end I may answer to that The answer to the dour or objection last afore named. exception of thy, namely that it seemeth a hard case, that there should be some predestinated unto death: I say that these things insewing, seem unto me much harder. Namely that god should not have forepurposed some certain end with himself in creating men, howbeit that (even as the unwisest woorkeman of them all do rightly witness) the end is the first thing in the intent of the doer. That god in creating men purposed an end to himself, which aferwarde should fall out incertainly, that is too wit in such sort, as it should rest in the power of the clay & not in the power of the potter, too make the thing come too pass or not come too pass which the workmaister had purposed. That god knowing the will of his own handiwork, should altar his own purpose, so that whereas he had determined too save all in Christ, yet notwithstanding he should altar his mind and destroy all such as would not incline too that purpose. For all these things (say I) do of necessity follow their opinion, which uphold that such as perish, do perish contrary to God's appointment. And lest we may seem too wander without our lists, that is to say, not to deal by only consequences of reason: First I say that all opinions which strive against the just proportion of faith (of which sort this must needs be one, the granting whereof is accompanied with so many wicked things) are plucked in pieces by the holy Scriptures. Secondly I say, that as often as the scripture maketh mention of the predestination of the choose sort: so often is the predestination of the Reprobates confirmed likewise, in asmuch as the cause itself requireth, that whereas some be choose unto life, the refidewe must be understood too be appointed unto death. Furthermore seeing that the vessels of glory be said too be predestinated too glory: the oversetting Rom. 9 22 23. of flat contraries doth utterly require, that we should construe the vessels of wrath to be such as are predestinated unto death. Quest. But here it is noted, that when the Apostle entreateth of the vessels of Another objection upon a distinction of terms glory, he useth a word that importeth doing: & when he speaketh of the vessels of wrath, he useth a word that importteth suffering. Ans. I grant that if it be demanded of the middle causes whereby the vessels of wrath are carried too the wrath that is appointed for them, they themselves are the onlycause of their own damnation. But truly this destruction is toyish. For Acts. 13. 48 Luke, iutreating of the elect, useth a participle of the passive voice, saying, as many as were ordained to everlasting life. What? was that of themselves, and not rather of the mere grace of god? Besides this, it is nothing to the matter. For we entreat not of salvation or damnation: but of the ordinance too Salvation or damnation, which disposeth & ordereth the very causes of executing them & therefore in no wise hangs upon them, for that is altogether above the skies as the old proverb sayeth. To be short, whither is it harder to say that some be predestinated to damnation, than to say that they be registered to damnation long ago as saint jude. 4 1. Thes. 5. ●. Jude speaketh, or to say that they be appointed to wrath, as Paul speaketh? Lastly, I said not that the damnation of the reprobates is the end that god purposed upon in his fore ordinance: but his own glory. Neither also did I simply say that the Reprobates were appointed to damnation: but I said they were ordained too Just damnation: showing thereby that although no man be dampened but such as the lord hath ordained to damnation, (for otherwise the aforesaid blasphemies that I spoke of would follow of necessity): yet are none damned but such as are found too have in themselves just causes of damnation. What falsnes then or what roughness hath my foresaid saying in it. Quest. You seem to be disproved by this 1. tim. 2. 4 saying, God will have almen saved, and by such other like universal sentences. An. Then say thou that some be dampened The right understanding of all general or indefinite propositions concerning providence and predestination whither God will or not, or else confess that the said text must be taken otherwise: which thing the promises also do show: namely (which th●●ge even the schoolmen themselves have espied) that thereby must be meant, not the particulars of all kinds, but all kinds of particulars: 〈…〉 speak more plainly, so as it may be, not an universal but an indefinite proposition, which aught to be interpreted thus rather: that is to wit, that god will have any manner of men too be saved, which self kind of speech Matthew useth when he sayeth, that the Lord healed all sykenesses and diseases, that is to say all sorts or kinds of diseases, according as both Math. 4. 23. Latinmen and Englishmen do now and then speak. For I pray you dare any man say, that God will have all men saved, yea even though they continue in unbelief too the very last gasp? truly no. For if it be the father's will, that he which believeth in the Son should not perish: it followeth john. 6. 40 that it is his will also, that which believeth not in the Son, should perish. And therefore those two things, namely Too be saved, and too come to the knowledge of the truth, must be yoked together, so as it may be understood, that God will have those only too be saved, whom he vouchsaveth to come to the knowledge of the truth. But faith (which Eph. 28 2. Thes. 2. 3 is this true knowledge lighteth neither upon all men, nor yet upon the ronner or willer (as the Apostle witnesseth): Rom. 9 1● but cometh of God's mercy, and lighteth upon them only which (as Luke sayeth) are ordained to everlasting life, Acts. 13. 48 Acts. 16. 14 and whose hearts (as the same Luke writeth) God openeth so as they take heed to his word. Then must we understand, that gods predestination extendeth to all sorts of men, that is too wit both jews and Gentiles, private people and magistrates, men and women, old men and youngmen, slaves and gentlemen, such as be guilty of many sins and such as be guilty offeawer sins. For these only & such● other like, are the circumstances that are included in the foresaid sentence. Quest. Will you then make election to Election must needs be particular. be particular? Ans. And I would fain know if the man be in his right wits, that imagineth Election too be universal. For truly he that taketh all, maketh no choice: and he that chooseth a thing out from two other things or more, must needs be said too refuse or forsake the things that he chooseth not. Quest. But surely the calling and promise are universal. Ans. understand them too be indefinite without an● peremptory or precise. excepting of any people. (yea and that, in respect of certain circumstances of which I have spoken) and thou shalt think the rightlyer. And so altogether are those things also too be taken which diverse learned men of our time have written about this controversy. Or else see, how very reason of necessity confuteth that universal calling. For if ye mean it of the calling by the preaching of the word: it is not true that all men are, or ever were, yea or ever shallbe called so severally hereafter. For how many have died, do dye and shall die, before they have hard aught at all of this word? But if you take it to be meant of the other calling which hath a much larger scope, namely of the beeholding Rom. 1. 19 of nature whereby is understood that which may be known of god: not even this nother is so universally true as that it comprehendeth every several person. For how many have died & daily do dye in such age as is utterly unfit for that contemplation? There can not nor may not any calling, and much less any election be warranted too be universal, but only too be indefinite: and that must also be only with an exclusion of these certain circumstances aforesaid. Quest. But what if we say, that all men are called universally to salvation under condition, that they believe: & therefore that salvation is offered universally as in respect of God which calleth, and that the fault why this calling is not universally of effect, is not in God, but in the stubbornness of the unbelievers which refuse the good turn that is offered them? Ans. This doubtless is true in some respect. Stubbornness is the let of the effectual working of gods promises. Mat. 20. 16 For no doubt but the stubbornness of the unbelievers, is the thing that disappointeth the application and efficacy of the promises that be offered. No doubt also but calling hath a larger scope than election. But yet your supposalls are neither truly enough nor fitly enough spoken. For first we have showed, that not even the outward calling. (whither ye look to that which is natural or to that which is done by the word of the Gospel) pertaineth too every several person. Wherefore as touching those that we speak of, there is found in them no stubbornness against the Gospel, but only original corruption, which notwithstanding is even of itself alone sufficient Condition of beleevinge to damn the reprobates. Besides this, although the condition of believing be annexed: yet doth not the ordinance hung upon that, but rather that hangs upon the ordinance, as which goeth in order before all other inferior causes. Else, see how false and unreasonable things ensue. For it will follow that Absurdities following upon the foresaid question God in devising with himself, did first set before him his whole work as already finished, and that according as he see his work should be disposed of itself and not by him that made it, he should thereupon take occasion too determine, that is too say, too appoint either too salvation or damnation. Or if ye like better that god himself was uncertain how the performing or not performing of the condition would fall out: Then must it be concluded, that God's ordinance hangs in suspense, and that the determination of the case (as Austin trimly sayeth) is not in the power of the potter, but of the clay. And hereupon will be grounded another false opinion: namely, that faith hath not his beginning of God, but of the will of man, if it be so that God's foresight gave him 'cause too determine upon his choice. Neither is it too the purpose to object, that faith is not foresene, forasmuch as it is a gift of god that cometh in by the way: but that corruption and unbelief are foresene, which are natural in man after his fall. The nature of contraries in reasoning For the reason of the contraries requireth in any case, that look in what degree faith is placed in the ordinance of Election: even in the same degree must faithlessness or unbeeleefe be placed in the ordinance of reprobation. Therefore if you make faith foreknowen, too be the cause of the ordinance of election (which is utterly a point of a Pelagian and therefore repealed by Austin) you must needs deem the same also of unbelief in the contrary ordinance of reprobation. And on the othersyde, if ye submit faith unto the said ordinance, (as you needs must, for we be choose to the intent to believe, and not because we would or should believe) you must needs also in the contrary member submit unbelief to the ordinance of reprobation. Quest. Will you then make the ordinance The causes of unbelief and of faith are subject to god's ordinance. of reprobation to be the cause of unbelief, as well as you make the ordinance of election too be the cause of faith? Answer. No. For the ordinance of election is in deed the efficient cause of faith. But corruption or unbelief with the fruits thereof, are in such wise put under the ordinance of reprobation, as that the will of man is the first efficient cause of them and yet notwithstanding they be subject too the ordinance: because that although it be not through the ordinance, yet is it not besides the ordinance nor without the ordinance, that those things happen, whereof the failing cause and not the efficient cause is grrounded in God, as I said afore, For like as they only believe in whom God createth faith: even so through Gods forsaking of man's will, sin is krepte into mankind and there abideth yielding ill fruit in as many as God listeth too leave up too their own lusts, that they may be the cause of their own damnation, wheruntoo they are also inregestred and appointed from everlasting. Furthermore, that I may retire unto the other question: whatsoever is said of the forenamed condition which is annexed too the ordinance, as who should say that the ordinance depended upon the condition: Difference between God's ordinance & the execution of his ordinance. it is unfitly spoken .. For the ordinance of saving the elect sort, is another thing than the very glorifying of the elect: and the ordinance of dampning the Reprobates, is another thing than the very damning of them, in so much as the ordinance itself must needs be distinguished from the execution of it. The execution than of the ordinance of election, (that is too wit, the salvation of the choose,) dependeth upon faith that taketh hold of Christ: and the execution of the ordinance of Reprobation,) that is too wit the damnation of the castaways,) dependeth upon sin ●nd there fruits thereof, according t●o this saying of the Prophet, thy destruction O Israel cometh of thyself. And jocl. 13. 9 of this ordinance of choosinge some men too be saved by grace, and of refusing othersome too be dampened through their own sins, we know none other cause but this one, namely that the Lord, who is both incomparably merciful and incomparably rightful, will be glorified in that wise. He that holds not himself contented with this, for asmuch as he seeketh some higher thing and some rightfuller thing than Gods will: he is worthily reproved by the Apostle for a grabler. Quest. Ergo God hateth some, not for A right popish and worldly objection. their sins sake, but because he listeth so too do. An. This is a slanderous objection. For it is certain that God hateth no man but for sin: for otherwise he had hated his own work. But it is one thing to hate, Differnce between hating and ordaining too just hatred. and another thing to ordain one to just hatred. For the cause of the hatred is manifest, namely even sin: but why God appointeth whom he listeth unto just hatred, though the cause be hide from us, (saving too the end he may be glorified) yet cannot it not be unrightuous, tonsideringe that the will of God is the only rule of rightfulness. For if we speak of this sovereign will of God, which ordereth & disposeth the causes of all things: we must not say that a thing aught too be rightful before God should will it: but contrariwise, that God must first will the thing before it can be rightful: which who so considereth not, shall reason but confusedly of this matter. Quest. But yet for all this, God seemeth Wither there be any accepting of people with God. too be a regarder of people if he yield not alike unto all that have done alike. For in this point all men are like, that they be corrupted by nature spread into them from Adam. An. Nay truly, it followeth not of necessity that whosoever yieldeth not alike unto like, should be an accepter of people: but he only which yieldeth not alike unto like, because he is parciallye moved by some circumstances that accompany the person itself: as if two men were offenders alike, & the judge should acquit the one of them because he is rich, or his kinsman, or his countryman. For these be the people that may not be regarded of him that will judge uncorruptly. But I pray you, let us put the case, that two men be indebted unto you, both in like somme, and both upon like conditions. Now if of your liberality you forgive the one his debt, and exact the other man's debt according too extremity of law: shall there be any excepting of people in this behalf? What if some sovereign having a couple that offend alike, do of his mere grace parden the one man's offence, and punish the other according to his deserts, shall there be any parciality in the matter? Nay truly, if there be any fault in such dealing, it is not towards him that is punished, but towards him that is born withal, & that is but a gentle fault. much less therefore can any parciality or regard of people be deemed to be in the case which we have now in hand, considering how God acquitteth not the elect, but by the imputation of Christ's satisfaction: & if any thing may be called in question as scarce indifferent in this behalf, men may seem to cavil rather upon the mercy towards the elect, than upon the rightful rigour towards the castaways. Finally to what end is all this? For in order of causes, god's ornance gooeth before the very creation of mankind: unless thou will't make god so unwise a workman, as too created mankind before he had determined with himself, to what end he would make him. And what could he see in them that as yet had no being, whereby he might be moved to determine this or that concerning them? Therefore this discourse also pertaineth not to the ordinance, but to the execution of the ordinance: wherein notwithstanding (as I said even now) there can no partiality or accepting of people be found. Quest. Dost thou not then by the term lump (which the apostle Paul useth) understand Rom. 9 21. the created & corrupted mankind, whereout of God ordineth some to honour and some to dishonour? An. There is no doubt but God taketh How God shapeth both the choose & the reprobates out of one lump. both the sorts out of the same lump, ordaining them to contrary ends. Yet do I say and plainly avouch, that Paul in the same similitude, mounteth up to the said sovereign ordinance whereunto even the very creation of mankind is submitted in order of causes, & therefore much less doth the Apostle put the foreseen corruption of mankind before it. For first by the term Lump, there is manyfestlye betokened a substance as yet unshapen, and only prepared too work upon afterward. Again in likening God too a Potter, and mankind too a lump of Clay whereof vessels are too be made afterward, out of all doubt the Apostle betokeneth the first creation of men. Furthermore he should speak unproperly, too say, that vessels of wrath are made of that lump. For if that lump betokened men corrupted: then were they vessels of dishonour already, and the potter should not be said too make them, other than such as they had made themselves already. Finially so should the cause as well of the ordinance of Reprobation, as of the execution of the same ordinance (that is too wit of the damnation of the Reprobate) be manifest: for men should see, it were corruption. But why then should the Apostle mount up too that secret will of God which is rather too be honoured than searched, if he had so ready an answer at hand, specially which might earye alikelyhood of truth with it even in the reason of man? Quest. Truly thou compellest me to agreed unto thee even in this point also. But yet this is another thing that troubleth me. If this ordinance be of necessity & unchangeable, as it is indeed? to what purpose do men disquiet themselves? The wilful & unreasonable objection of the worldlings. for whether they do well, they must nevertheless perish if they be or deyned toodamnation: or whither they do ill, they shallbe saved if they be ordained too life. Question. Certainly it is a fond objection, too surmise that thing which never shall nor can come to pass. For from whence comes Repentance and the fruits thereof? Truly even from regeneration through the spirit of Christ taken hold on by faith: But true faith is given to the chozen sort only: Ergo only the elect do repent and give themselves too good works. The rest have not so much as the will too think any thing aright, and much less too do it, considering that too will aright and too do aright cometh of God's grace, which is peculiar only to the chozen. And therefore as fond also is the saying of them, which hold opinion that they shallbe saved if they be choose, what kind of life so ever they give themselves unto. For as many as be choose, are the children of God, but if they be Gods children, than also (as the Apostle Ro. 8. 14 sayeth) they beeled by God's spirit. And therefore the elect truly cannot perish: (for then should gods ordinance fail, or else at lest wise God should be changeable), but like as they cannot perish, so also are they in their seasonable time endued with faith, and ingreffed in christ in whom finally they be justified, sanctified, and glorified. Que. But yet must they needs perish Needs must the reprobates perish & the cause thereof. that are ordained too damnation. Answer. I grant: but yet it is because they be sinners. For evermore between the ordinance and the execution of the ordinance there steppeth in sin,, which will stop the mouths of any men be they never so captious. For what is more rightful, than that God should punish sin? And too whom is he bound too show mercy? Therefore I am not wont too marvel that any man perissheth, but rather I marvel that God's goodness can be so great, as that all do not perish. Question. Because thou hast so often distinguished the middle causes from the ordinance that disposeth them: I would also have them rehearsed on either part. Answer. Forasmuch as God (as it may be perceived by the falling out of things) The middle causes between the ordinance of predestination and the end of it. had determined from everlasting, to setforth his glory chiefly in mankind, which glory consists partly in extending mercy, and partly in extending hatred against sin: he created man sound both within and without, & endued him with right understanding and will, but yet he made him changeable. For he himself being singularly good, could not created and will any evil: and yet except evil had entered into the world, there had been no room neither for mercy, nor for justice. Man therefore being changeable, brought himself and all that should be born of him in bondage of sin and of God's wrath, willingly & altogether by mishap as in respect of the beginning that sticked in man himself, that is too say in respect of his own will, albeit that it were of necessity if ye consider God's ordinance and the sequel of the matter. From thensforth the Lord, (according as he had determined from everlasting,) bringing forth now some and then some, doth so lead them forth too their appointed ends too be glorified in them on either side: that of them in whom he will have his glory to appear by their salvation, some he removeth out of hand too eternal life as freely comprised within his covenant: and othersome (whom it pleaseth him too have too continue longer in this life,) he calleth by the effectual Rom. 8. 28 etc. word of the Gospel, sometime earlyer and sometime later, at what time he listeth, and greffeth them into Christ, in whom he justifieth them, sanctifieth them, and finally rewardeth them with eternal life. And as for the residue which are appointed too his rightful vengeance, (for to whom is he debtor?) either he destroyeth Rom. 11. 35 them out of hand, or else patiently giving them respite (that they may not Rom. 9 22. be altogether without taste of his goodness) either he vouchsafetheth not too call them at all, or he calls them no further but too make them the more unexcusable. Hereupon it cometh to pass, that being left up too their own lusts, they harden themselves, until they have filled up the full measure of wickedness, and then they pass away unto judgement. In what wise these causes of the damnation of the reprobates, do come to pass beside the ordinance of God who forsaketh the reprobates and delivereth them up too Satan and too themselves, as that the whole blame doth notwithstanding stick altogether in themselves: I have showed already in due place. Quest. Then must the vessels of mercy praise the lord, and the vessels of wrath blame themselves. But whither may I flee for secure in the perilous temptation of particular election. Ans. Unto the effects whereby the spiritual Remedies against the temptation of particular predestination. life is certeinlye discerned, and so consequently our election, like as the life of the body is perceived by feeling and moving. For we that walowe as yet in the puddle of this world, are not able too lift up ourselves unto that sovereyne light, except we mount up by those steps whereby God draweth his choose unto him according too his foresaid everlasting ordinance, as whom he hath created to his own glory. Therefore that I am choose, I shall perceive first by the holiness or sanctificationbegon Phil. 2. 13. 1. joh. 3. 10. Ro. 8. 15. 16 in me that is to say by my hating of sin and by my loving of righteousness. Here unto I shall add the witness of the holy ghost comforting my conscience, like as David said, why art thou heavy O my soul, & why dost thou grieve thyself? Put thy trust in the lord. Hereto pertaineth Psal. 42. 11 the earnest minding of God's benefits, which though it rather frayeth us than comforteth us for a time while we think therewithal upon our own unthankfulness: yet at the length it must needs life us up, forasmuch as therein are always too be seen the manifest tokens of his free and unchangeable fatherly love towards us, not shadowed, but plainly expressed. Upon this Sanctifycation and comfort of the holy Ghost, we gather faith. And thereby we rise up unto Christ, to whom whosoever is geeven, is of necessity choose in him from afore all worlds, and shall never be thrust out of the doors Question. What if those witnessinges be faint? Answer. Then it beheveth us too know that Other ●o comfortable remedies we be tried, and therefore that our sluggishness is then most too be found fault with. Yet withstanding our hearts must not in any wise shrink, but we must strengthen them with those indefinite promises, and throw darts at our adversary again. For although the encounter of the flesh against the spirit do cumber our consciences with great doubtinges of the trewnes of our faith, specially as oft as the spirit seemeth too quail and in a manner too be quite quenched: yet notwithstanding, it is certain, that this spirit which setteth itself truly (though but faintly) against the assaults of the flesh, is the spirit of adoption, the gift whereof is not too be repent of. For otherwise the elect might perish, and they that be once justified might fall away from Christ. Whereupon it would follow, either that God is changeable, or that the salling out of his ordinance is uncertain, whereof none of both can be imputed too God without blasphemy. Quest. But the garland is given to those only that hold out. Ans. I grant so. And therefore whosoever Perseverance or holding out to the end. is elected craveth perseverance and obtaineth it. Quest. Think you then that the spirit of adoption is never shaken of? Ans. I confess that the spirit is now and then interrupted in sore temptations, & that the testimonies of his dwelling in us are oftentimes so brought a sleep, that he seemeth to be quite go from us for a time. But yet for all that, I say he is never quite taken away: for needs must gods determination of saving his servants stand sure, and therefore when▪ time serves, at length the mists of the flesh are chased away, and the gladness of the lords saving health always restored, which shineth as the Son into the troubled consciences of the elect. Finally Howtrewe faith & the effects of it are interrupted. I say, that true faith and the effects thereof are in likewise interrupted in the elect as the powers of the mind be hindered in them that have the sleepy disease or in drunkenmen: in whom the soul is not taken away, (for there is great odds between the sleepy disease or drunkenuesse and very death) and yet that they which have the spirit of Adoption have an assured pledge of eiernall life. Therefore in this most dangerous encounter, the same thing wherewith Satan assaileth us, both can and must warrant us assured victory. For except the spirit of adoption (which is also the spirit of holi●●esse, righteousness, faith, and life) were present in us, there should be no striving in us, but sin should reign quietly at his pleasure. For the man that Mark too know an elect from a worldling unelected▪ or from a reprobate. Rom. 7. 13 Rom. 7. 15 19 Rom. 7. 25. is not endued with that spirit says thus: I do the evil that I have a mind unto: I do no good, nor I have no list too do it. But the man that is regenerated, and so consequently elected, (howbeit as yet still wrestling,) sayeth thus: I do the evil that I would not, & I do not the good that I would do. Woe is me, who shall deliver me out of the body of this death? And in crying out in this wise, the elect person casts his Anchor in the very Throne of God the father, whom he beholdeth in the preached word and in the Sacraments. Finally when the elect shall have got the full victory in the other world, he shall say thus: I do the good that I would do, and I do none evil, nor none I list to do. Question. What if a man never feel the testimonies of such spirit in himself? Answer Yet must it not be deemed that he is one of the number of the reprobates. No man must be hastily deemed for a reprobate For the lord calleth those that be his, at what time he himself listeth. And therefore such manner of men must be sent away too the word and the Sacraments, where they may here God speaking and alluring sinners unto him. For although they receive not the fruit and operation of those things for a time: yet must they encourage themselves and also be diligently stirred up by others, too continue in heeringe the word of God even against their wills: & then one time or other they shall obtein● that which the Lord as yet deferreth, not too the intent too cast them of, but contrariwise too sharpen their desire and earnestness. Quest. I would therefore that we might talk among ourselves concerning the Sacraments also, about the which in especially there is now adays so great strife between the churches. Ans. Truly I refuse not so to do. Notwithstanding (as I think) we shall do that more conveniently another time. In the mean while, if you be satisfied in the things you have demanded, I am very glad, and I would with you too mind these things earnestly night and ●aye. ¶ All honour, glory, praise, and thanks be only unto God the Father through our Lord jesus Christ. Amen, (⸫) ¶ EINIS.