A BRIEF VIEW of the weak Grounds of Popery; As it was propounded to D. NORRICE, Priest, by T.U. Gent: and returned without answer.  
AT LONDN Imprinted by Humphrey Lownes, for Samuel Macham, and Matthew Cook, and are to be sold in Paul's Churchyard, at the sign of the Tiger's head. 1606.   

To my dearest Cousins, A. B. C. D.  
MY dearest Cousins: with what zeal and fervency (both in my prayers, and other endeavours) I have ever desired we might be of one mind & heart, God, 
Act. 6.  and mine own conscience can best testify, and yourselves may partly witness with me. For, as touching the means to this our atonement (namely, conference with the learned of each others side, and reading their books) you know well, I (for my part) have never refused it, but evermore gladly embraced, and diligently sought after it: that so, if truth (whereof great vaunts were made) had been found on your side, my heart first, & then my hand, might readily have subscribed thereto. But, when I consider the doctrine of your Rhemists, 
Tit. 3. Sect.  (and the answerable practice of their disciples) forbidding you not only to read our books, but to hold conversation (much more to have conference) with us, (who must be Heretics because they term us so): yea, when I see they blush not to affirm, That we are not to be heard; 
●f●r. 3. ●ect. 2.  no, not though we speak the truth: I almost despair of your conversion; seeing the means are prohibited. Now, how much meeter it were, in a case of such consequence (being no less than the eternal safeguard of your souls) to leave them, with their errors; and to hearken rather, and conform your faith, to the doctrine of Christ and his Apostles, I refer it to any seeing judgement. For, the universal consent of all the ancient Fathers, alloweth the Scriptures for the only Rule of faith; as containing in them, all doctrine necessary to salvation. And albeit I have sufficiently (among others) cleared that question in this small Treatise following; yet will I somewhat enlarge the proof of it in this place; to the end you may better know, That though you send us (for instruction) to to the Fathers: yet they send us back again to the Scriptures, as the only and sufficient Rule to direct us. And, in handling this point, I will not much insist upon divine authority; since I know you rely chief (if not wholly) on the Fathers. Only I will urge these few testimonies of Scripture: which ought to prevail more with every true Christian, than all the Fathers, how learned soever. First, our Saviour willeth us, to search the Scriptures, for that in them we think to have eternal life. 
Io. 5.39. Mark. 1224.  And he taxeth the pharisees of error, because they were ignorant of the Scriptures. 
2. Tim. 3.15, 16, 17.  S. Paul likewise affirmeth that they are able to make us wise unto salvation; that the man of God may be perfit, instructed to every good work. And if this persuade you not, I have no hope that any Father can: for as Christ saith, 
Luk. 16.29, 30, 31.  They have Moses and the Prophets, if they will not hear them, neither will they believe if one rose from the dead. Now, as to the Fathers, though your side pretend so much to reverence them, yet in this question, they wholly reject them, and that indeed not without cause; seeing their authority in this one point, might prove the downfall of your whole Religion: it being confessed by some great Champions on your side, That many and most of the doctrines wherein you vary from us, are grounded on Traditions, and not on the Scriptures: as any that will take the pains to read, may see, in Peter Soto, against Brentius; in the fift chapter of Canisius Catechism, & in the 
* In fine fabulae, 6.  5 book of Lyndans Panoply: yea, 
* Scripto su● aedito tempore Trid. Concil.  Andradius saith, That the greatest part of Catholic Religion is left unto Traditions of the Church not written. 
●anopl. li. 1. ●. 22. demē●ssimae insa●iae,  And the said Lyndan saith, It is most extreme madness to think, that the whole & entire Body of evangelical doctrine is to be fetched out of the Apostolic letters written with ink, and out of that little book of the new Testament. And therefore so much the more are your leaders & seducers to be taxed, who persuade their followers, that the greatest difference between them and us, is touching the Sense of the Scripture: whereas every man of common sense will easily judge, that, where there is no Text, there needs no Interpreter. But let us briefly see what opinion the Fathers were of, in this controversy between us, and how they have understood that Scripture, which D. B. P. calls the Protestants Achilles, which he only barks at, without further hurt. 
● B. book ●gainst M ●erkins, called the 1. ●im. 3. the ●rot. Achil●es. Hom. 9  chrysostom upon the same Text saith, If any thing be needful for us to learn, or to be ignorant of, there (meaning in the Scriptures) shall we learn it: If to reprove falsehood, from thence shall we draw it; if any thing lack to be corrected or rebuked; which must be had unto exhortation, unto comfort: there also do we learn it. Likewise Ho. 8. upon the 15. verse he saith, The scriptures do teach both what things are to be done, & what not to be done. Theodoret upon the same place saith, The scripture is inspired of God, Therefore he teacheth the kinds of utility: It is profitable to teach; for, whatsoever we know not, we learn out of it: To reprove; It reproveth our wicked life: To correct; for it exhorteth, that they which have gone astray, return to the right way: To instruct in righteousness; for it teacheth us the kinds of virtue, that the man of God may be perfect, furnished to all good works. All these things do attribute and ascribe perfection to the God of all. Primasius saith, Out of the scriptures he that is ignorant is taught; He that is insolent, is reproved; He that erreth, is corrected; He that can keep no measure, is instructed to justice; to every good work, not unto one. Oecumenius saith, after he hath rehearsed the particular utilities, to teach all true opinions, and good works, to reprove errors & vice, he concludeth, that the man of God may be, not only partaker after a vulgar manner of every goodworke, but perfect and complete by the doctrine of the scriptures. Not to some kind of good work, and to some not: But to all and every good work, saith Theophilact. Athanasius saith, 
Atha. contr. gent. Chrys. ope● imperf. in Mat. Ho. 41. Aug. in Ioh● Tract. 44.  The holy scriptures inspired from heaven are sufficient for all instruction of truth. chrysostom saith, whatsoever is requisite for salvation; all that is fully laid down in the Scripture. S. Augustine saith, There were chosen to be written, such things as seemed (to the holy Ghost) sufficient for the salvation of the faithful. And in his second book against Cresconius, the Grammarian, he saith, That there is an Ecclesiastical Canon ordained, whereunto belong the books of the Prophets and Apostles: By which books, we judge all other writings both of the faithful, & of the Infidels. 
Hier. sup. Agge. cap. 1.  Hierom saith, Those things which of their own heads they devise, as though they came by Apostolic Tradition, without the authority and testimony of the holy Scriptures, the sword of God's word striketh. Infinite be the Authorities of the Fathers, which might be brought to this purpose: but I will conclude the point with Vincentius Lirinensis (whom D.B.P. in his book against M. Perkins, 
Vincent. adver. Haeres.  believeth not to have any such words) who saith, The Canon of the Scripture is perfect and sufficient, and more than sufficient to all things. And again, Not that (saith he) the Canon alone is not sufficient for all things. These Fathers I hope knew the Scriptures aswell as D.B.P. or any other Papist: and yet notwithstanding all his (& their) objections, the Protestant's Achilles' (as he termeth it) stands unimpeacht by any thing that this (or any other) caviller hath said. And yet notwithstanding these evident places, brought by the general consent of all the Fathers against the fundamental Ground of Popery: Your Rhemists will tell you, 
Rhem. Test. 2. Thes. 2. sect. 18.19.  if you will believe them, that they have (to the contrary) plain Scriptures, all the fathers, most evident reasons, that we must either believe Traditions, or nothing at all. And that S. Augustine often writeth, That many of the articles of our Religion, and points of highest importance, are not so much to be proved by Scriptures, as by Tradition. But if we ask them where S. Austin wrote this (often), and that (of many articles of Religion and points of highest importance) it must be returned with Non est inventus; Not to be found in S. Austin. But they perceiving the whole weight of their cause to lie in this, 
Rhem. Test. fol. 559.  have marshaled nine Fathers in a rank, to prove, that we must either believe Traditions, or nothing: And yet the very same Fathers have showed, That no matter of faith, or of any moment to salvation, must be received or believed without the Scriptures; 
Cypr. ad Pomp. cont. epist. Stepha. Basil. contr. Eunomium. lib. 3.  and the Fathers often times by Traditions understand matters contained & proved out of the scriptures, & that in regard the same was delivered also by word. And many times by Traditions they understand ceremonies and customs. Now choose whether you will grant, a flat contradiction in the Fathers; or reconcile them thus; and conclude with us, Ergo, the Traditions they mean, be no parts or points of the Christian faith: For we have their plain confession, That all things necessary to salvation, are comprised in the scriptures: you produce them to witness, That your Traditions be not comprised in the scriptures. Ergo, by your own deponents we conclude, That your Traditions be neither necessary to salvation, nor points of the Catholic faith. Look well to this Issue, They must either dissent from you, or from themselves. Now if you will compare the late doctrine of the Romish Church, with these Fathers; it shall be evident, That they have not only dissented from them, but also uttered open blasphemy against the sacred Scriptures. First Cardinal Cusanus entituleth his book, De authoritate ecclesiae & Concilij supra & contra scripturam: Of the the authority of the Church & Council above & against the scriptures. Sylvester Prierias, master of the Pope's palace, 
Contr. Luther. conclusi. de pot. Papae  saith, That indulgences are warranted unto us, not by the authority of the scripture, but by the authority of the Church and Pope of Rome, which is greater.  
Boniface the Archbishop of Mentz, saith, That all men so reverence the Apostolic See of Rome, that they rather desire the ancient institution of Christian Religion from the Pope, than from the holy scripture. This saying the Pope hath so approved, that he hath caused it to be inserted into the Cannon law. 
Dist. 40. c. Si Papa.   
Another saith, whosoever resteth not on the doctrine of the Roman Church, and B. of Rome, 
sylvest Prior. contr. Luther.  as the infallible rule of God; à qua sacra scriptura roburtrahit & auctoritatem: from which the sacred scripture draweth strength and authority, he is an heretic. Eckius saith, 
De Ecclesia.  Scriptura nisi ecclesiae auctoritate non est authentica: The scripture is not authentical, but by the authority of the church. Cardinal Hosius saith, 
De expresso verbo Dei.  If any man have the interpretation of the Church of Rome, concerning any place of scripture, although he neither know, nor understand, whether, and how it agreeth with the words of the scripture, notwithstanding he hath ipsissimun verbum Dei, the very word of God. Cardinal Cusanus saith, 
Nicol. Cusan. ad Bohem. epi. 7.  It is no marvel though the practice of the Church, expound the scriptures at one time one way, and at an other time another way: for the understanding or sense of the scripture runneth with the practice: And that sense agreeing with the practice, is the quickening spirit: 
Henric. doctor Magister sacripalatij Romae ad Legatos Bohemicos sub Felice Papa 1447. Ad Bohem. ep. 2.  and therefore the scriptures follow the Church; but contrariwise, the Church followeth not the scriptures. Another saith, The Pope may change the holy Gospel, and may give to the Gospel according to place and time another sense. To conclude therefore with Cardinal Cusanus, This is the judgement (saith he) of all them that think rightly, that found the authority & understanding of the Scriptures, in the allowance of the Church: and not contrariwise lay the foundation of the Church in the authority of the scriptures. I will not mention others that have blasphemously said, 
Vid. Chemnit. exa. par. 1. pag. 47.  That the scriptures without the authority of the Church are no better than Aesop's Fables. Thus you see how the Grounds of our Religion are justified by the Fathers, against these blasphemies of the Romish Church. And for that I know it commonly objected, that we refuse in disputation & conference to handle the grounds of Religion: I have thought good in this small Tract to examine (though briefly) the Grounds of your Romish Religion, dialogue-wise; to the end, the truth may be the more lively discerned, by the objections and answers. Wherein if I have not truly laid down the Grounds of your Religion for the substance thereof: Or that they have either been mistaken by me; or, that (using that brevity I have done) they might be more strongly or effectually urged on your side; or, that the reasons urged on our behalf, be either falsely alleged, or not truly handled: I shall take it as a special grace done unto me; & an argument of a reciprocal love in you, that the faults thereof may be showed and manifested by some of the great Rabbis of your side: to the end that the weakness of our cause being laid open, I may be drawn to join with you in the religion you profess; & may be brought home to that fold, out of which, & from which I am sure in your judgements I am departed & gone astray as a lost sheep. T●is is a charitable request, & ought not with any colours or sleights to be refused by any of those learned Priests in whom you have interest; since they know of how great merit the winning of souls is. And they may the rather be encouraged thereto, because these things as they are collected by me, are but the doings of a mere lay man; & therefore (if at all) may with greater facility be refuted. But if the same shall be passed over with general terms (as heretofore it hath been in the like) as a thing unworthy the answering: Or that I am an heretic & obstinate, and not to be dealt with: them may you easily judge, that either your credit is small with those of your profession: Or your love & charity very little to me, that so earnestly out of the simplicity of my heart desire an answer: Or else that the weakness & badness of your cause, cannot abide the touchstone of truth; notwithstanding their great & swelling brags, of challenging us to dispute with them, be so often sounded i● your ears. And I would to God I might truly say of you, that I presume of myself, that yo● would read & ponder these things with in difference, & abandon partiality. To the effecting whereof, besides my prayers, I have no better means than the Apostles doctrine, 
1. Thess. 5.21 james. 1. Cor. 2.5. 2. Cor. 13.5 john 4.1. Act. 17.11.  who willeth you & us all to examine all things, & to hold fast that which is good, and not to have the faith of our Lord jesus Christ with respect of persons; but to try the spirits whether they be of God therein following the example of the men o● Berea, who searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so. Thus having some hope you will follow this Council & commandment coming from so high an authority as the Spirit of God: and also for my satisfaction (if not for your own) effect this my so charitable & reasonable a request, as the answering hereof, I shall still continue my prayers, to open our eyes that we may see the truth, and that we may be made one flock & one fold of that great Shepherd Christ jesus, the Bishop of our souls: To whom, with the Father and the holy Spirit, be all honour, and praise, now and for ever. Amen.  
Yours, in the Lord, T. V.   

The Author to the Reader.  
THis small Tract, Christian Reader, was at the first composed out of a religious zeal, and fervent desire I had to have withdrawn some of my best friends from that Egyptian darkness of Popish superstition. And this argument I the rather made choice of, because it was often objected, (though very untruly) that we durst not handle the Grounds of Religion. After I had finished the same, I recommended it to my best friends as you may see by the Preface thereof: the which was by them reciprocally received, having no less love and desire to reclaim me, than I had to win them. To which purpose they sent it to some one of the learned on their part, by whose sufficiency the same might be fully refuted; which, I assure myself by many probable conjectures was Doctor Norris. After I had stayed some thirteen weeks, with desire and expectation to see the answer thereof; & having often solicited the same: about that time I received a Letter (as I take it, from the said D.N.) importing (among many several reproaches wherewith he had laboured to give satisfaction to them, and to impeach the credit both of me and my book) that if I would procure two or three of the best learned of our side to avow it under their hands to be the doctrine of our Church; That then he would take upon him to prove 14. or 15. several absurdities, and untruths therein, as by his Letter here likewise set down verbatim, may truly appear. This Letter I then answered, as it is here likewise inserted. And when I had stayed another quarter of a year, and heard of no answer made, or intended to be made, I procured with much importunity, the redelivery of the book. After which, because I would leave the said D.N. (as I take it) without all excuse, and also let my friends see, I would press it to the utmost, I procured two reverend and learned Ministers, M.D. Sutcliffe, and M. Anthony Wootton, to subscribe the same book under both their hands, in this form following; viz, The sum and substance of the doctrine contained in this book is sound, and shall be maintained, by the grace of God, against the whole pack of jesuits and mass-priests of the Romish Synagogue. After this, upon the late discovery of those hellish and matchless treasons against our dread Sovereign, and the whole body of the Realm; having heard, that the said D. N. was apprehended and committed to Bridewell (where I likewise understood that he was not close prisoner) I repaired unto him, and showed him this my book, with the subscription annexed and before specified, demanding of him whether he had seen the book, and were the author of that Letter. Which he denied, affirming that he had never seen it till them: reserving belike (according to their manner of Equivocating) that he had never seen it till then, subscribed in that manner, or with some such mental reservation. All which considered (though I am still persuaded, that he was the Author thereof) I have preferred the publishing of it (though therein mine own wants & defects for the manner of handling, might by the judicious & learned be in some sort taxed) rather than to bury it in silence: for that I hope it may bring some benefit (not unworthy my travel) to the indifferent Reader, and may happily effect that which thereby I first intended; when they shall see I am not afraid (in regard of the doctrine therein) to divulge it to the whole world. And the rather I am encouraged hereto; for that the same is not only the doctrine of the best learned writers of this our age & Nation (as it is by me collected) but also is warranted to be justified by men of so great sufficiency, that I shall not need to fear shipwreck though the seas swell, and the storm rise never so high. And so farewell in Christ.  
T. V.   

The true Copy of the Letter I received.  
I Have perused your Treatise dedicated to your dearest Cousins: which I find to be a vain bundle of words, without substance, order, learning, or truth: and if you can procure, that two or three of the best learned of your side, will avow it under their hands to be the doctrine of your Church (else I know they will all disclaim from it, having seen the errors and weakness thereof) I will take upon me to show, that in so short and frivolous a discourse, you could hardly compile more absurdities than there are couched. I will prove, for example, that you mistake, and understand not the questions yourself would seem to handle: that you most shamefully bely our Catholic writers: guilefully allege both Fathers and Scriptures: heap testimonies of ancient writers, without end or purpose: make objections to yourself, and answer them not at all: I will prove that you allege false Counsels amongst the number of true, without any difference or distinction: that you reprove Father's writings as counterfeit, which are most approved: count books of Scriptures Apocrypha, which are Canonical. I will prove, in these few lines, you writ contrary to yourself: contrary to your own writers. I will prove that the book is fraught with most palpable lies, errors, corruptions, & falsifications: if you will but procure, as I said before, that it may be countenanced by public authority, with the subscriptions of 2. or 3. the most deepest scholars of your Sect. In the mean time I let it pass with this bare censure; and entreat you but to read Bellarmine de Pont. & de Concil. where you shall find most of your objections of the errors of Popes and Counsels already refuted.   

The true Copy of my Letter in answer hereof.  
TO accuse without proof, to say and show no reason (of all which, you in your Letter may justly be taxed) might truly argue me to want both substance, order, learning and truth, according to your own phrase. And, to free yourself from the same imputation, have you yielded any other reason against my book (which you intitie a vain bundle of words) than a boasting bundle of vain brags? Turpe est doctori, etc. But you would seem to give a reason why your bare censure (as you rightly have censured yourself) should be a sufficient answer to my book; unless I can procure two or three of the best learned of our side, to avow it under their hands to be the doctrine of our Church: Else you know (or else you are a false prophet) they will all disclaim from it, having seen the errors and weakness thereof. But lest I seem to tax you with want of learning and truth, with bare words only, without proof; as you in the height and eminency of your judgement have censured me: Can there be greater show of ignorance, than to require that to be avowed to be the doctrine of our Church, which hath been already by the learned of our side published to the whole world in many of their several books daily extant to be seen? And, that I commit not your fault, To speak without proof: do you but instance any one point of doctrine in all my book; and if I do not show where the same is justified by the learned of our side; I will willingly acknowledge that error wherewith I have here charged yourself. And to make it yet more evident: if I should require you to confirm the doctrine you should deliver by two or three of your best Divines; when the same had been published already by Bellarmine, Gregorius Valencia, your Rhemists and others: could any thing convince me of grosser ignorance? It seems (notwithstanding your vain brag, That that you would prove 15. particularities wherewith you have charged me and my book) that you are but meanly read in controversies: otherwise you could not be ignorant, that there is no doctrine in my book that is not avowed & published, either by jewel against Harding, or the B. of Winchester that now is, or by D. Rainolds, D. Whittaker, D. Fulke, D. Spark, with many others. And albeit I could not have confirmed thus much by these clear testimonies: yet if you had Christianly and charitably weighed with what mind my request was made in my Preface to my Kinsmen (wherein I had entreated in these very words, That if I had not truly laid down the Grounds of your Religion for the substance; or, if they had been mistaken by me; or, using that brevity I had done, they might more strongly have been urged; or, if the reasons I had urged, had been falsely alleged; or not truly handled etc. That I would have taken it as a special grace done unto me, etc. to have had the faults thereof manifested & showed, that I might have been drawn to have been of the same profession with them, etc.) you would never have insisted upon such a subscription of the deepest scholars of our Sect, thereby to have cavilled and shifted off the answer of my book; how unlearned soever it had been, either for the method, or matter. But you imagined, your words were so powerful; that it was sufficient for your followers, that you had only given your censure, without showing any further reason. Besides (my request being so charitable & reasonable) it seems you have small care of winning of souls: otherwise I persuade myself (if you had been assured of your own sufficiency to have answered the book) you would never have insisted upon so frivolous a request: Nor have preferred the vainglory of having a learned adversary, before the hope you might (not without good probability) have conceived in reducing many by my conversion (or rather indeed perversion) to have been of your profession. I profess, for my part, I cannot see any other ground of your Letter directed to me, than to enlarge your own ostentation and glory to your followers. For, to undertake that you would prove this, and this, and not to have returned the book, whereunto you required the subscription; what can be inferred thereof, but that you would win time to delay and shift off the answer? But if you will proceed according to my request in the Preface of my book, & prove as much as by your Letter you have presumed, without seeking some new shift to delay the time further: I will engage myself, that the same shall be replied to, by one every way equal to yourself in all knowledge and literature: who (notwithstanding the advantage you promise to yourself, of the absurdities committed by me) shall defend the cause I manage, and subscribe the same defence with his own hand: Otherwise, you shall gain thus much by your travel, that I will willingly submit myself to be a member of your Church. If you refuse these reasonable conditions, I must use your own old phrase, and tell you, that I must needs think your cause so weak, that it cannot be maintained. I omit to charge you with incivility, in giving me the Lie: For that I cannot but pity your ignorance that cannot, as it seems (though all were false I had said, speaking by relation) distinguish between a lie and untruth. And whereas you refer me, in the conclusion of your Letter, to Bellarmin de Pont. & de Concilijs, where you say, I shall find most of my objections of the errors of Popes and Counsels refuted: So can I whensoever you shall instance any such particular refutation (which may ease you of some pains, if it be so sufficiently performed) refer you to some of the authors of our side, where the same reasons have been with no less sufficiency handled and replied to: assuring myself; That neither any of you have, or can, make any objections against the doctrine, we profess, that hath not been already objected, and likewise by us answered. And if any will show me the contrary, I will be beholding to him, neither will I shut mine eyes against the truth. If this which I have said may any whit prevail with you to make show of that great learning whereof in your Letter you have boasted, by your liberal undertaking to prove so many particulars (which hitherto as great Clerks, as yourself have failed in) I shall be ready and willing to perform whatsoever I have herein promised. Otherwise I pray you return the book, as you received it; and you shall see, that some such course shall be taken, as shall make you blush to have censured so rashly.  
Your friend, in Christianity and Charity, T. V.   

A brief view of the weakness of the Grounds of Popish Religion, as is evident by these several Objections and Answers following.  Protestant. 
1WHereupon do you ground your Religion?  Papist. 
Upon the word of God interpreted by the Church, which cannot err.  Protestant. 
2 What do you understand by the Word of God?  Papist. 
The Scriptures and Traditions.  Protestant. 
3 What do you understand by the Church?  Papist. 

Stapl. princi. doct. l. 7, ca 10. l. 11, ca 5 Hervaeus de potest. pap. & R. Cupers Petrus de Palude de potest. papae, A●. 4.  The Church is sometimes taken for the ancient Fathers; sometimes for general Counsels; Sometimes we prefer the head of the Church, the Pope, before both.  Protestant. 
4 Well: that we may proceed orderly in the handling of these particulars: Do you receive all the books of the Old and New Testaments, with equal authority?  Papist. 
No; but following the Tradition of the Church, we distinguish between the Canonical and the Apocrypha.  Protestant. 
5 Which are the Books which you call Apocrypha?  Papist. 
We hold as Apocrypha; The prayer of Manasses; the third and fourth book of Esdras: Also, others that are not usual in your English Bibles: as an Appendix to the book of job; The 151. Psalm; A preface to the Lamentations of jeremy; The third and fourth book of Maccabees.  Protestant. 
6 Well, we agree with you in the rejection of these Books: And we likewise consent with you, That all the books of the New Testament, as they stand, are to be received of all for Canonical Scripture: What are then the Books that are in question between us?  Papist. 
There be 7. Chapters of Hester, certain Stories annexed to Daniel; as, Of Bel and the Dragon, Of Susanna, Of the three children; Also the Epistle of Baruch, joined to jeremy; Then the books of Toby; judeth; The Wisdom of Solomon; Ecclesiasticus; Two books of the Maccabees: These we repute as Canonical, both by the testimony of the Fathers, and by the authority of the Church.  Protestant. 
7 Well, Since I shall have cause hereafter to speak of the Church, I will but briefly give a touch to the reason of the refusal of these Books. All Canonical Scriptures in the old Testament, were written by the Prophets: We have a sure word of the Prophets, 
2. Pet. 1.19  saith Saint Peter. And Saint Paul calleth them The Scriptures of the Prophets. 
Rom. 16. 2●  But none of those Books afore named, of Tobias, of judeth, and the rest, were written by the Prophets: Therefore none of those Books are Canonical. All the Books of the old Testament, that were Canonical, were acknowledged of the jews and Hebrews, and written in Hebrew: But the jews received none of these Books into the Canon of the Scriptures, though to them were committed the Oracles of God, as Saint Paul saith: neither were they in the Hebrew tongue, Ergo, they are not Canonical. But to the end you may see how well the Church, of which you boast, agrees with the testimonies of the Fathers, both ancient & modern; 
Hier: prol: galeat: & E●i. ad Pauli. & in praefat. ●i. Reg: & in praefat. in ●ro. Salom.  I will give you this taste briefly. S. Hierom saith, The Church readeth those books, but receiveth them not amongst the Canonical Scriptures. The sum of all which is confirmed by these testimonies following: whose particular speeches to this purpose for brevity sake I omit, referring you to the places themselves, as they are here following set down. As Rufinus in his exposition upon the creed: Cyril of Jerusalem in the 4. of his Catechism: Athanasius in Synop. Sacr. Scripture. Nazianzen in Carminis: Epiphan. li. de Mensur. & ponder. Cyprian upon the creed: Damas●en. ca 49. Hugo de Sanct. Victor. de Sacram. in prol. li. 1. ca 7. Radulphus in Levit. li. 14. c. 1. Lyra in prol. in li. Apocry. Hugo Cardina. in prol. josu. All these contradict the opinion of the Papists in this controversy: yea, Arias Montanus, a chief Papist, in his Hebrew Bible, writeth in the forefront, & principal leaf of the book; There are added, (saith he) in this Edition, the books written in Greek; which the Catholic Church following the Canon of the Hebrews, reckoneth amongst the Apocrypha.  
The Council of Laodicea, 
Can. 59 Constantinop: in Trul lo Can. 2.  alured by a general Council of Constantinople in Trullo, did set down the same Canon of the scriptures, which both the old Church had, & our church doth hold: & commandeth, Ne aliqui praeterea legantur, & in auctoritatem recipiantur: That none besides be read & received into authority. I omit many several contradictions in all, or most of the books which we reject, & they allow, whereby they may be convinced not to be written by the spirit of God: which is always one & the same. See the 4. Esdras 10.20. & 2. Maccab. 2.4. & 1. Mac. 1.6. &. 8. touching Antiochus: yea, we will confess with Bellarmin, 
Bellar. de ver. Dei, li. 1. cap. ●.  That the scriptures may be proved, to be the Word of God, by the constant & perpetual truth of the Prophecies: By the wonderful harmony & consent of the holy writers of the Scriptures: By the Spirit of God, which is a principal witness unto us: By the scripture itself, 2. Tim. 3. Lastly, by the many & great miracles wrought by the Prophets & Apostles; which do testify for the truth thereof.  
To the which touchstone, if the Scriptures  we reject, were brought to the trial, they would easily be convinced, to be but dross, and unworthy to stand in the ranks of those that are Canonical. But how do you know which are the Scriptures? and in them, which be Canonical, which be Apocrypha?  Papist. 
I know by the testimony of the Church which be the Scriptures: and in them, which be Canonical, and which be Apocrypha.  Protestant. 
8 How do you know which is the Church? And by what means may it be known, that the Church hath authority to determine, which be Scriptures, and which of them be Canonical, and which be Apocrypha?  Papist. 
There be many notes and marks reckoned up by the learned of our side, by which the Church may be known: But we insist chief upon these; Antiquity, Unity, Universality, Succession, and the power of Miracles. And for the authority of the Church, it is proved by the Scriptures.  Protestant. 
9 This answer is common to all Heretics: for they allege, sometimes the 
a Author. open Imper. in Mat. Ho. 48.  Church; sometime 
b Iren. adu Hear, lib. 3. cap. 2.  Traditions; sometime 
c Aug. contr Maxim. Ari● episc. li. 1.  Counsels; sometime 
d De Bapt. c. 6. li. 3.  Fathers; sometime 
e In joh. ca 2. tract. 13  Miracles; sometime 
f De unit. eccle c. 16.  Visions; & sometime 
g Epist. 65. ad gener.  Succession of Bishops: yea, 
h Act. 19.27  Demetrius pretended Universality. And the 
i Act. 17, 18, 19  Philosophers, Epicures, and Stoics, Antiquity. And 
k Vinc. Lir. ca 6, ca 4.  Vincentius Lirinensis disproveth Universality, by the example of the Arrians: and Antiquity by the example of the Donatists. And for their 
l In Chron. Suput. Rom. prat. Sigon de Regn. Ital li. ●.  Unity, let that appear in the several oppositions of their Popes, one condemning the decrees of another; and decréeing one contrary to another. And therefore, this is no sufficient reason, for a man to ground his faith and Religion, if we believe the 
m Stapleton, n, & Hart. ag. Ra. pag. 118.  Papists in the like cause: for it is a common objection by them, that because Heretics allege the Scripture, therefore they are no suffieient rule. Moreover, this answer passeth the limits of the proposition; for it presupposeth the authority of the Church to be proved by the Scriptures, and the Scriptures to be proved by the authority of the Church; which is, Ignotum per ignotius; Idem per idem; A proof of a thing unknown, by a thing less known, and so no proof at all. Therefore to proceed to the next part of the division, what do you understand by Traditions?  Papist. 
I understand apostolical doctrine, commonly called unwritten verities: and as D.B. P. in his book against M. Perkins, divides them; Some are Divine, some Apostolical, and some Ecclesiastical: all which (according to the Council of Trent) are to be received with equal reverence, 
Conc. Trid. Sess. 4.  and religious affection, as we do the Scriptures.  Protestant. 
10 How do you prove Traditions, or unwritten verities to be Apostolical doctrine, and that they be Divine, Apostolical, and Ecclesiastical; and that they are to be received with equal reverence, and religious affection, as we do the Scriptures?  Papist. 

2. Thess. 2, 15.  I prove it by the Scriptures interpreted by the Church. Saint Paul saith, Hold the Trations which ye have learned, whether it be by word, 
Conc. Trid. ●ess. 4.  or by Epistle; which by the Church's exposition, proveth unwritten verities to be received, with equal authority to the Scriptures: and to explain the same D.B.P. aforesaid affirmeth, that Divine Traditions come from our Saviour Christ; Apostolical Traditions from the Apostles; And the Decrees of the Church, he termeth Ecclesiastical Traditions; which are likewise of equal authority with the Scriptures.  Protestant. 
11 This is a common fault with you, to use this point of Sophistry, called by the Logicians, Petitio principij: for you will still take it for granted, that you are the Church, though you never prove it. And this is a necessary consequence, That if the truth be doubted of, the church must needs be much more doubted of: because the Church is the number of men professing the truth; And how can the professors of the truth be severed from others, so long as the truth, by which they should be known, is in question: Therefore the supposing yourselves to be the church, when your faith & Religion should be tried, is fond & vain. But if S. Paul in that place by (Delivered) & (Tradition) mean nothing but the doctrine delivered to them by word of mouth, & yet comprised in Scripture too, then must you grant, that you are deceived to think, that unwritten Traditions are approved by S. Paul's Traditions. Now what the things were which S. Paul delivered by word, to the Thessalonians, is showed in the 17 of the Acts, saying, Now as they passed thorough Amphipolis, and Apolonia, they came to Thessalonica, where was a Synagogue of the jews; and Paul, as his manner was, entered in unto them, and three Sabbath days he discoursed unto them out of the Scriptures, opening and alleging, That Christ must have suffered and risen again, etc. In which words it is opened, both what Paul delivered to the Thessalonians, by word; and from whence. From whence? Out of the Scriptures. What? That it behoved Christ to suffer and rise again. Besides, Saint Paul witnesseth both to small and great, that he said no other thing, than that which the Prophets and Moses did say should come. 
Act. 26, 22  The Traditions therefore that Paul doth exhort the Thessalonians to hold; is the Tradition of the Gospel: as Saint Ambrose writing upon the same place, calleth it very well; which the reason also doth prove, that Saint Ambrose noteth that Paul doth there gather, saying, God hath raised you to salvation by our Gospel: therefore stand ye fast, and hold the Traditions which ye have learned, whether it be by word, or by Epistle. Now I hope there is none so impudent to deny, that the Gospel is written. But here another difficulty encounters us: If it were granted by the Church's interpretation; that there were doctrines or Traditions, Divine, Apostolical, or Ecclesiastical, delivered by word of mouth: upon what sure grounds might we be assured, which be the Traditions, that were so delivered by Christ, his Apostles, or the Church.  Papist. 
The ancient Fathers & chief Papists, do plainly teach, that many points of doctrine, wherein you vary from us: as, hallowing the Font, the blessing of the oil, the anointing the Baptized, Exorcisms, Fasts, Festivities, prayer for the dead, prayer to Saints, worshipping of Images, the oblation of the Sacrifice, their Annealing, their Primacy of Rome, their five pretended Sacraments, the merit of works, their satisfactions, the numbering their sins to the Priest, their Real presence, their half Communion, etc. (See the preface for Priests: and, See Master Middleton's book; called Papistomastix, Sect. 5.) & almost all these things which you defend against us, are proved by the Fathers to be delivered by Tradition.  Protestant. 
12 This showeth evidently, that you are guilty of the same fault, that the pharisees were, 
Mark. 7.9  by Christ's own reproof, saying, You cast aside the commandments of God, to maintain your own Traditions: 
Mat 15.9.  teaching for doctrine, men's precepts. So that as Saint Peter hath censured you, 
1. Pet. 2.18  Ye are not redeemed from the vain Traditions of your Fathers. Besides you choose rather to make the Fathers to contradict themselves, (as I have showed in the preface of this treatise) than to acknowledge with us as the truth is, that the Traditions mentioned by the Fathers, are no parts or points of the Catholic faith. But doth your Church practise all those Traditions which are delivered by the Fathers, to be either Divine, Apostolical, or Ecclesiastical?  Papist. 
Yes: and although she did not, yet is the Church's authority sufficient to abrogate, or admit, which she pleaseth.  Protestant. 
13 Indeed you take that liberty to yourselves, without all warrant, either of Scripture or Fathers: For S Hierome, which is one of the Fathers alleged by you for Traditions, 
Dialo. contr Lucif. ca 4.  delivereth it as an Apostolic Tradition; On the Lord's day, and throughout every Penticost, neither to pray on the knees, nor to fast. The temper of milk and honey, given to them that were newly baptized, 
Tertul. de Coro. Milit. Nu. 3.  is confirmed by Tertullian, who likewise reckoneth up a number of Rites grounded upon Tradition: As, that the baptised should abstain from washing, a whole week after Baptism, with much crossing at every going out, at every step, at every coming in, at putting on of apparel, at putting on of shoes, at washings, at tables, at lights, at beds, at seats, etc. all these are delivered as the Apostles Traditions: which yet the Papists themselves observe not. And if these be not Apostolic Traditions, what warrant have we for any of the rest? For, as for the Church's authority in abolishing of these; you may say as much of the holy Scriptures: for you have said before, That Traditions unwritten, 
Conc. Trid. Sess. 4.  were of equal authority with the Scriptures. But do you think the authority of the ancient Fathers, to be a sufficient ground, to lead us to accept of all the Doctrine delivered by Tradition: and that whatsoever is delivered by them, is to be received without exception.  Papist. 
Yes, the joint consent of the Fathers, 
Sta. prine. doctr. li. 7. ca 13. & li. 1● ca 5. Hart. ● ag: Ray. ca ●▪ diui. ●.  is an absolute Rule; being indeed the Church's exposition.  Protestant. 
14 Then must you wholly relinquish all your doctrine and Traditions unwritten: for all the Fathers do with joint consent yield all their authority to the Scriptures; laying it for a Ground, that nothing necessary to salvation, is to be believed without the authority of the Scriptures; nay, that themselves, are not to be credited without the scriptures, as shall manifestly appear by the testimonies of these Fathers following: yea, S. Augustine is so absolute for us in most of his books 
* Aug: Ep: 19 ad Hiero: Epi. 48, Vincent: Ep 111, Fortunatiano. Epi 112, to Paulina. Cont. Fastum li 11, c. 5. Contr. Cres. gram: li. 2, ca: 11 & 32, De Bap: cont: Don li. 2. c. 2 De merit. & remiss. peccat. count Pelag. lib: 3, cap: 7. De nature. & gra. ca 61, De gracia Christi contra Pelag. cap. ●●. De nuptijs & concupiscent: lib. 2, ca 23. ; that he would have the Church, sought only in the scriptures; & heretics confuted only by the scriptures. To whose only authority in many places he professeth, that he himself will be bound. So that you must either make these Father's contrary to themselves: Or else grant that Traditions are not of absolute necessity to be received. But for that this is a main point, which the Papists insist on; I will clear the same evidently by four just exceptions, which I refer to the indifferent censure of any. First, I will prove, that the Fathers have attributed all sufficiency to the Scriptures, and have submitted all their authorities unto them. Secondly, That the Fathers have held divers errors: upon which it necessarily followeth, that if they might err in one thing, they might err in another. Thirdly, that they are often rejected by the Papists; yea, even the greater number sometimes: contrary to their own rule; and therefore may with as great reason be rejected by us. Fourthly, That there are many counterfeits bearing the names of ancient Fathers; and that often times they are alleged by the Papists to abuse us: all which particular exceptions I will briefly prove in order as they lie.  
First, Saint Basil saith, 
Tract. de fide.  it is a most certain argument of infidelity, and a most certain sign of pride, if any man will reject any of those things that are written; or bring in any thing that is not written: when our Lord saith, My sheep, hear my voice, and, a stranger they will not hear.  
Tertullian saith, 
De resurrect▪ carnis.  Take away from Heretics those things which they hold with ethnics, that they may stay their questions upon the Scriptures only, and they are not able to stand.  
Saint Augustine saith, 
De doctr. Christ. li. 2. ca 9  All things that concern faith and manners, or belief and life, are plainly written in the Scriptures.  
chrysostom saith, 
In 2. ad Thessa. Ho. 3  That every thing is clear and evident by the Scriptures; and whatsoever things are necessary, they are evident.  

In Eusng: joh. li. 12, cap. 68  Cyril saith, That such of the things done by Christ are written, as the writers thought, to be sufficient for manners and doctrine.  

Epist: 11, inter epist: August.  In the controversy betwixt S. Austin and S. Hierome, touching Peter's reproof; Hierome alleged more Fathers on his side, and made so great account of them, that he desired Austin to suffer him to err with such men, if he thought him to err. 
Epist: 19  To whom Saint Austin replied, that peradventure he might find as many, if he had read much: But I (saith he) have Paul the Apostle himself, in stead of these all, and above these all. To him I do fly; to him do I appeal, from all the doctors, his interpreters who are of other minds. etc.  

Epist: 126, ad Euagrium.  S. Hierome yielding his opinion to Euagrius, a mean man; after he had showed the judgements of Origen, Didimus, Hipollitus, Irenaeus, Eusebius Cesariensis, Emisenus, Apollinarius, and Eustathius saith, To bring forth the witnesses it was my part; let it be yours to judge of the credit of the witnesses.  

Orig. Hom: 1, super Ie●em.  Origen confesseth, That their judgements, without witness of the Scriptures, were of no credit.  

Hierom. in Psal. 98.  Hierome writeth, That all which they spoke, they were to prove by the Scriptures: 
Hier. in Ma●. 23.  and saith in another place, That which hath not authority from the Scriptures, as easily is despised as approved.  
Saint Basil saith, 
Basil in Ethicis defi● 8.  If every thing that is not of faith be sin, as S. Paul affirmeth, and faith come by hearing, and hearing ●y the word of God, Ergo, whatsoever is without (or beside) the Divine Scriptures, because it is not of faith, it is sin.  
Saint Hillary: 
Hillar●us ad Constan. August.  Seekest thou for faith, Emperor? (saith he to Constantius) hear it not out of the late Scrolls, but out of God's Books. Hear, I beseech thee that which is written of Christ, lest under pretence thereof, things not written be preached. And in another place pressing his adversary, Thou, 
Idem de Trinitat. li. ●  saith he, that deniest things written, what remaineth but that thou believe things unwritten? You see that was counted for a passing absurdity in that age, which since the Papists have established, as the surest way to discern truth.  
Tertullian refelling the Heretic Hermogenes: 
Tert, ad head praesci. ad Haeres.  I adore (saith he) the fullness of the Scriptures; let Hermogenes show me where this (that he teacheth) is written: If it be not written, let him fear the curse provided for adders and diminishers. It seems this Father understood the Text of Deuteronomie, and the Apocalypse, otherwise than D.B.P. in his book against M. Perkins.  

Iren. li. 3. ●ap. 1.  Irenaeus saith, The disposition of our salvation, we knew by none other, than by those, by whom the Gospel came unto us: the which at first they preached by mouth; but afterward by God's appointment, they did deliver it to us in writing, that it should be the foundation and pillar of our faith.  
The mountains of Israel, whereon God promised to feed his flock, 
Aug. de pastor. ca 11.  are, (saith Augustine) The writers of the divine Scriptures: feeding there you feed safely: whatsoever you learn thence, count it savoury; whatsoever is besides them, refuse it. Therefore whether it be touching Christ, or his Church, o● any matter else, which concerneth our faith and life, 
dem contr. Litt: Petil: li. 3. ca, 6.  I say not if we, (saith Saint Austin) but as followeth in Paul, If an Angel from heaven teach any thing besides that, which you have received in the Scriptures of the law● and the Gospel; hold him accursed. But I will conclude this point (wherein there is ● multitude of witnesses against you, which, to avoid tediousness, I omit): S. Augustin teacheth Paulina, 
Epist●us:  Not to follow his authority, or to believe a thing, because he hath said it, but to believe the Canonical Scriptures. 
L● 〈◊〉 de pi● rit, c●  We say therefore with him let us yield and consent unto the holy Scriptures, which can neither deceive, nor be deceived. And again, I require the voice of the Shepherd, Read me this matter out of the Prophets, 
De past●●. cap. 14.  read it out of the Psalms, read it out of the Law, read it out of the Gospel, read it out of the Apostles writings. And so I end with this sentence of his, I own my consent, 
De nature & gratia, ca 61.  without gainsaying, only unto the Canonical Scripture.  
Now, let the indifferent Reader judge of the handling of this first part; whether he will believe the Fathers, speaking for, and with the Scriptures: or for Traditions, without and and beside the Scriptures. Surely had these Fathers lived in this age, they had been condemned for Heretics, as we are, for holding the same doctrine; so well doth this new Popery agree with Antiquity. And the Papists had need to have these places, and infinite o●hers to this purpose, 
Deut. 4, ●. & 12, 32. & 28. 5●. Io. 20.31. 2, Tim. 3, 15, 16, 17.  to be purged by their Index expurgatorius, out of the Fathers, lest this thief and fundamental point agreeing so directly with the Scriptures, prove the downfall of all Papistry.  
Now let us briefly proceed to the second Exception, to show the error of the Fathers.  
First, Cyprian condemned the Baptism of Heretics as unlawful, wherein a Council of Carthage of 87. Bishops under him, erred with him.  

●ag. de civitate Dei, lib. ●1. c. 17.  Origen thought, That the devils themselves should be saved at length.  
Tertullian doth (with Montanus) condemn second marriage.  

a In dialog: cum Tripho jud.  justin the Martyr, 
b Hier. comen. in Esay, li. 18, in praefat.  Irenaeus, 
c Euseb hist. Ecclesi. lib. 3. ca 36.  Papias, 
d De spefidel. ut cita ab Hierom.  Tertul●ian, 
e Hier. scrip e●cl. in ver. papias.  Victorinus, 
f Di●●nar. instit. lib 7, cap. 23.  Lactantius, 
g Hierom. comment. in Esay, lib. 18, in Psalm.  Apolinarius, 
h Hierom. come●t in Ezech: lib. 11.  Severus, and 
i Euseb. Hist Eccles. lib. 7. cap. 23.  Nepos did err, in that they thought, that Christians after the resurrection, should reign a thousand years with Christ upon the earth in a golden jerusalem, and there should marry wives, beget children, eat, drink, and live in corporal delights.  

k Irenaeus ad Higher lib. 5 ca 2●.  Irenaeus, 
l Hilar. divinar. instit. li: 7, ca 14.  Hilary, 
m Lactant. in Matt. Can. 17.  Lactantius, 
n Hieron. epist. 139, ad Cypr.  Hierom, and 
o just. Martyr. Respon. ad Orthod. q. 71.  justin Martyr erred, for that they thought that the world should last but six thousand years: which opinion 
p Aug in Erur. Psal. 89. & de civitate Dei, lib. 18. cap. 33.  S. Augustine doth reprove as rash and presumptuous.  
Hilary erred touching the humanity o● Christ, and did not speak of the person of the holy Ghost as the church speaketh.  
Irenaeus erred, in affirming, That Christ died in the fiftieth year of his age, contrary to the Scriptures, Luke 3.23. And john the Evangelist remembreth three Passovers after the Baptism of Christ, and in the third he was crucified, as he affirmeth.  
Thus you see the second Exception ius●fified: but I will forbear to enlarge this part any further, because I am unwilling to discover their nakedness.  
The third Exception is, That the Papists themselves reject the Fathers, 
bristol motives.  notwithstanding the great brags they make of them, as though they were wholly theirs; wherein I will be short, as I have been in all the rest. When we affirm by Saint Hieromes testimony, that Pope Liberius subscribed to the Arrians: Master Hardin answereth, 
jewel aga. Har. pag 6●  that Hierome was deceived by a rumour, dwelling in the East.  
The Rhemists except against Augustine's exposition of these words, Upon this Rock, 
Mat. 16, sect. 8.  etc. which he expoundeth not of Peter's person, but of Peter's faith: 
Princ. doct li. 6. cap. 3.  Also Doctor Stapleton calls the same exposition Lapsus humanus, An human oversight. And yet the same exposition is confirmed by ᵃ Gregory Nissen, ᵇ Cyril, ᶜ chrysostom, ᵈ Ambrose, and ᵉ Hillary: All agreeing, that this Rock is the confession of Peter.  
Bellarmine rejects S. Augustine's interpretation of S. Paul in this place, He shall be saved, as through fire; which Austin interpreteth to be the afflictions or tribulations of this life. But Bellarmin expounds it of Purgatory.  
The Rhemists reject S. Augustine's reading, Heb. 11. ver. 21. who saith, 
〈◊〉 ●t. in ●nesis, q. 162.  jacob by faith worshipped God upon the end of his staff. But they translate, jacob adored the top of his Rod, to countenance their Idolatry.  

●n confess. Aug. i 2. c. 8. Tit. 5.  Torrensis the jesuite in the division of the commandments, saith, that 3 of them concern our duty towards God, and 7 towards men. This doctrine is embraced by the Papists, upon Austin and Clement's authority, contrary to all these Fathers following: whose judgements they may truly be said to reject, in preferring two before so many. As first by the Hebrews, as 
Li. de decal. 〈◊〉 duob. opusc. ●le legib. speci● lib.  Philo, 
Antiquit. ●ude. li. 3. ca 4.  josephus, 
In Exod. 20.  Aben Ezra: next by the Grecians; 
In versib. de decalog.  Gregory Nazianzen, 
In Exod. ●o. 8.  Origen, 
In Synop. ●et. Scripture.  Athanasius, and 
In Mat. oper. ●mperf. Ho. 49.  chrysostom. Lastly, by the Latins: 
In Epist. ad ●ph. cap. 6.  S. Ambrose, 
In ●pist. ad ●phes ca 6.  S. Hierome. And one yet ancienter than they both, 
Aug. q. vet. Nou. Test. ●p. 7.  The Author of the questions of the Old and New Testament, who all affirm that four Commandments concern our duty towards God, and six towards men.  
Epiphanius is rejected by D. Hardin, 
jewel, pag● 548.  for breaking of Images.  
Cyprian is condemned by Dureus, because he teacheth that only Christ is to be heard.  
Their rejection of the Fathers is so commonly known to all that read Controversies, 
See their Index expurgatorius.  as is evident by the infinite testimonies alleged by us, out of the Fathers, against the Papists, that I shall not need to insist of more particularities: in which few may yet be observed; that they reject the greater number (which they term the Church's exposition) when they make against them. 
Stapleton and Hart.   
The fourth Exception is, that there are many counterfeits bearing the name of Fathers, which are likewise often alleged by the Papists, to abuse us with their names. For proof whereof there be nine volumes of S. Hieroms works, whereof 3 are none of his: and yet vitae Patrum, a Legend, how wrongfully fathered on him, 
Comment. in epi: 2. ad T● more. ca 4. l● cor. Theol● li. 11. ca 6.  your Espencaeus and Canus both show. As also a barbarous and sottish fable of the nativity of S. Mary as Canus calleth it.  
Likewise of ten volumes of S. Augustine's, there is not above one or two, that hath not more or fewer of such Pamphlets patched to it, both by the censure of Erasmus, 
Censura theologorum Louanien●um in Appendi c Tom● secundi, & cetero●um August.  and the Divines of Louvain, who show, that sundry things bear Saint Austin's name, whereof some are unlearned, some lewd and heretical.  

Sixtus ●ene●s. de ●●lc● librotum inscrip. Stapl prin●▪ doctr. li. ●, cap. 14.  Sixtus Senensis, whom D. Stapleton doth commend, hath proved that books are fathered falsely, not only upon Augustine and Hierome, but also upon Ambrose, Cyprian, Athanasius, Eusebius, Emisenus, junilius, Cyril, Eucherius, Arnobius, and Thomas of Aquine. And with this discourse he closeth up the former volume of his holy Library: In which he hath showed, 
Bibliotheca Sanct● lib. 2. & 4.  that Clemens, Abdius, Origen, chrysostom, Hippolytus, and many more, have had their names defaced with the same injury.  
I will omit divers others for brevity; and although this may seem no just Exception against the Fathers, yet it ought to make us cautious, how we trust them to be the true Fathers; and not counterfeits: the rather for that the Papists, have often alleged such counterfeit Fathers to credit their doctrine with. For proof whereof, Torrensis the jesuite citeth such books for S. Augustine's as are known and granted to be none of his; 
●n confess. ●ng. li. ●, ca ●, Tit. 2, etc. assi●.  as namely, The Sermon of Saint Peter's chair, and other pretty Pamphlets of the same litter. And although in the preface of his confessions to the Reader, he makes an exception: yet our of that exception, he saith, that although they do not avail much to convince the opinion of Sectaries: Nevertheless, there will be godly men and learned, who will permit and judge them to be Saint Augustine's own; and will both take delight and profit by trading them. And yet amongst the●e books, there is one that teacheth, contrary to Saint Augustine; as namely. The book of visiting the sick: wherein the Bastard Austin alloweth the worship of images for good, 
De visitat. Infirmor. li 2. ca 1. De moribu● Ecclesiae ca 3●.  which ●he true Austin doth note as an abuse, and saith the Church misliketh it. And yet this book alleged by the jesuite for worshipping of images is set as a flower in his Augustine's con●●tions; though it be judged a bastard Austin by the Divines of Louvain. 
Censura Lovaniensium. Non est August. princ. doctr. li. ●. cap. 15. Arnob. come in psal. ●●. Hier. de Scriptori●. eccle. Biblio. sanct. li. 4. Histor. Trip. li. 5. c. 5. Coment. in ●sal. 105.   
D. Stapleton allegeth Arnobius upon the Psalms, to prove, that who goeth out of Peter's church shall perish; and that this is a counterfeit Father, Saint Hierome and Sixtus Senensis dot show, for that the most ancient Arnobius was elder, than that he might hear of the heresy of Photinus; whereas this Arnobius that writeth on the Psalms doth mention Photinus and wrote by name against his Heresy.  
S. Basil is often alleged by the Papists, in many of their books, 
Basil de Spir. sanct. ca 27.  for Traditions not written. These words are urged as his: Of the doctrines which are taught in the Church; we have some laid down in writing, some again we have received by Tradition, from the Apostles in a mystery, that is in secret: whereof either have like force to godliness; neither doth any man contradict them, that is but meanly acquainted with the laws of the Church: for if we go about to reject those customs which are not written, as of no moment; before we beware, we shall condemn those things which are in the Gospel necessary to salvation, yea, rather we shall bring the preaching of faith to a naked name. And not long after in the same book, If nothing else hath been received without scriptures, 
Ibid. ca 29.  neither let this be received: But if we have received many secrets without writing, let us also receive this among those many. I think it Apostolic to cleave to Traditions not written. Now this book is proved a counterfeit by the reasons following: First, though it hath Saint Basils' name to it, 
Epist. Eras. dedicat. ad Episc. Culmens. praefi●●. ca 17.  yet the later part thereof whence those patches are taken, have neither S. Basils' style, learning, spirit, nor age; which Erasmus confessed when he translated the book. Besides, this place of Basils', directly contradicts the two places afore mentioned of of S. Basil. 
Q. 14. par: 1  And this later allegation of the 29 Chap. convinceth the Author to be but a young Father in respect of S. Basil. For this bastard Basil in the same chapter mentioneth Meletius, as a Bishop of ancient memory, dead long before his time: 
Basi. despi. Sanct. ca ●9  Insuper & Meletium illum admirandum eadem fuisse sententia narrant quicum illo vixerunt. Sed quid opus est vetera commemorare? Immò nunc qui sunt Orientales etc. Moreover, Meletius (that admirable Bishop) was of the same opinion, as they that lived with him report. But what need I repeat ancient times? The East Bishops which are at this day, etc.  
Now the true Saint Basil, not only lived at the same time with Meletius, but was made Deacon by him, 
Socr: li. 4. ca 26. Basilij epi. 56, 57, 58, 89. Socr. lib. 5. ca 8.  and wrote many letters to him, and departed this life before him, as the Church story witnesseth, affirming Helladius S. Basils' successor, and Meletius, were both present at the second General Council at Constantinople, under Theodosius; and that must needs be when Saint Basil was dead. I will yet enlarge this part out of the Rheims Testament, because I know you highly esteem the book, and think it impossible, that so many learned Divines would abuse their Readers with counterfeit Fathers to confirm their doctrine.  

Anot. Phe. Test. ●. Tim. 4. sect. 13.  Your Rhemists allege a counterfeit Epistle of Alexander, to prove Holy water to be 1400. years old, and it beareth date when Traianus, and Helianus were Consuls, which was never; which proveth it to be a counterfeit.  

Anot. Rhe. Test. 1. Cor. 11. sect. 10.  You allege chrysostom, and S. james Masses, for putting water into the wine in the Sacrament: and that these Masses are forged, are thus proved: 
Balls. in Can. 32. Conc. Constant. 6.  First Balsamon, Patriarch of Antioch, saith, That the Liturgy of Saint james was not extant in his time. And in the Liturgy that beareth the name of Chrysostom's Mass as it is set forth by Claudius du Sanctis, There is a prayer for Pope Nicholas and the Emperor Alexius: whereof the one was near five hundredth years, the other 7. hundredth years after chrysostom.  
For extreme Unction, you cite Augustin de visitatione Infirmor and Austin de Tempore. 
Anot. Rhe. Test. Cala. 4. sect. 2.  The first place is proved a counterfeit by the censure of Louvain, 
In Censur. general. Tom. 10.  as I have showed in the first example of these counterfeit Fathers: and the other place de Tempore, by the same warrant. 
Oper. de Aug.   
Saint Augustine, (or as some think, 
Anot Rhe. Test. Acts 1 sect. 7.  Fulgentius) is alleged by your Rhemists to prove prayer and preises to the blessed Virgin Marie, saying, Who can be able worthily to praise, or thank thee: Receive our prayers, obtain us our requests; for thou act the special hope of sinners; by thee we hope for pardon of our sins; and in thee, O most blessed, is the expectation of our rewards, etc. What greater blasphemy can there be, then to attribute that to the creature, which is only due to the Creator? This is not to honour, but to dishonour that blessed virgin; in giving those attributes to her, which to proper and peculiar to our Saviour Christ. Now for proof that this is a counterfeit Austin, he addeth the tehimonie of Isiodorus, who lived 200. years after S. Austin; which proveth, that it can neither be Saint Augustine nor Folgentius. Besides this, Augustine or Fulgentius, in the 39 sermon, doubteth of the Assumption of the Virgin Mary, and yet when he may seem to make for their superstition, he must be urged as the true Austin. So little conscience make they of the abusing their Readers; if it may hold them in blindness, or give any colour to their errors. The questions of the Old and New Testament, are none of Saint Augustine's: for in the 21 question, it is affirmed that Melchisedech was the holy Ghost: which saying, the true Austin, in his book De Haeres. refuteht as an heresy. 
Bellar. de Sacr. Can. i 2. ca 10.  This Bellarmine confesseth, and yet the authority of this book is often urged by the Rhemists and other Papists. But above all their forgeries, 
Annot. Rhe. sest. Act. 1.  those touching the assumption of our Lady are notable: where for proof thereof, Saint, Denis, S. Damascen, Athanasius, and S. Barnard, are alleged. In which they affirm, that S. Denis writeth these and these things; where neither the Author is S. Denis, neither writeth he the things which they allege. Now for proof that this Denis is a counterfeit, Dionysius Areopagita (who they here call S. Denis) was dead many years before the works which bear his name could be written: for there is 
De divin. ●ominib. c. 4  cited in them a saying of Ignatius, out of an Epistle which he wrote to the Romans as he was going to suffer martyrdom: 
Euseb. in ●ronic. Methodi● in Mar●rio Dion. ●reopag.  in the time of trajan the Emperor. Now Dionysius died 
Ignat. epi. Ephes.  in the time of Domitian, certain years before. And when 
Dion. Atop. Episc. ●thenarum  Ignatius wrote it, Onesimus was B. of Ephesus, who succeeded Timothy. Your counterfeit 
Timoth. ●isc. Ephe.  allegeth it to Timothy, B. of Ephesus, either after his decease, or before it was written. Besides it is set down in that Annotations that she lived 63 years, being 25 years after Christ's Ascension, as it is in their Tables of S. Paul, when she is supposed to be assumpted. Now in the same Table, 
After the Acts of the Apostles.  it is showed by their own account, that it was 51 years after Christ's Nativity, and 18 years after his Ascension, before Dionysius Areopagita (whom the term S. Denis) was converted by S. Paul; which 
f Acts 9, 5 Galat. 1.18. Acts 9.26. Galat. 1, 22 Acts 13, 4. Gal. 2.1. Acts 15.4. Acts 16, 5. Acts 17, 34  the Scriptures also witness, as any that will weigh the particular texts shall evidently perceive: So that he could not be one of the brethren, to witness her assumption: She being assumpted (taking the largest computation) three years before he was converted; being at that time no Christian. He might be proved a counterfeit by other reasons, which I omit. Now touching the things which are by the Rhemists fathered on him, he saith no more thereof, but that among the Bishops, inspired of the holy Ghost, Hierotheus excelled all the rest (save the Apostles) in praising Christ's goodness; when himself and Timothy, and many of their holy brethren, came together to behold the body, which received God, and which the Prince of life was in. As for the miracles (falsely forged by the Rhemists, and fathered on him) of the Apostles brought together; S. Thomas coming the 3 day after, the Angels singing Hymns three days, the burial of the virgin's body, the desire of Thomas to see it, the Sepulchre opened for his sake, and the body assumpted into heaven, he saith not one word of these conceits. Nay he rather saith against them; for he noteth, namely, That james was also present, the brother of the Lord, and Peter the chiefest and ancientest top of the Apostles. And it is not likely he would have noted two, if they had been all present: here is no less than seven lies in less than six lives.  
Now let us see how Damascen & your Portesse agreeth: For Damascen saith, The Angels sung almost three days. The Portesse, three whole days. Damascen saith, The rest of the Apostles, would show to one of them, who was absent, the body. The Portesse saith, Thomas, who was absent, would worship the body. Now what thee Damascen was, let your own doctors tell you; who except against him for his tale of Gregory the Pope, 
●anus loco●m Theol, 〈◊〉. 11. ●. Hessels ●nsure de astor. sanct. ●. 3. ●erm. de funct: in 〈◊〉.  and Trajan the Emperor. Thus Damascen reporteth, That Gregory while he went over the market place of trajan, did pray for Traian's soul to God: and behold, a voice from heaven; I have heard thy prayer, and I pardon trajan: but see thou pray no more to me for the wicked. These be good places to prove prayer for the dead: and yet it is against popish doctrine, that prayer can deliver any out of hell. And if he had been in Purgatory, the Pope could have dispatched that of himself without praying. The next is Athan in evang. de deipara; who speaks not one word of your miraculous fault. And yet is the same Athanasius rejected for a bastard, in your own edition. 
In edit. Petr. Nannij Lovan. praefat. ad episcop. Atiebat.  The last is five sermons of S. Barnard's, in all which likewise, there is not one word of that miracle. So that unless they were disposed to lie for the whetstone; it is to be wondered, how they dare thus abuse their Readers both with the names of counterfeit Fathers, and false forgeries. If I should collect all such like stuff, it would grow greater than this small Tract. But let the Christian Reader judge of the rest, as he proves these to be truly brought against them. And if any desire further proof of the Rhemists' sincerity in alleging Fathers, let him observe these places, viz. The constitutions of Clement, Luk. 4. Sect. 1. Ignatius, Matt. 4. Sect. 2. & 1. Peter 2. Sect. 6 Dionysius Areopag. Act. 8. Sect. 6. Hippolytus Mat. 24. Sect. 5. Policarpus, Act. 6. Sect. 1. Miltiadi Fabian Act. 8. Sect. 6. S. Andrew, S. martial, Hebr. 10. Sect. 11. The Masses of S. james, Basil, and chrysostom, 1. Cor. 11. Sect. 10. Clicton for Civil, joh. 11. Sect. 1. and Paulinus, joh. 9 Sect. 2. All these are counterfeit Fathers, and urged by the Papists under the names of true Fathers, to countenance their corrupt doctrine. And therefore no marvel if popish leaders instruct their followers, to get us into the plain field of their Motives, out of our weak and false castle of only Scripture, as Bristol the Licentiate termeth it. 
Brist. Motiu. 48.  And it is no marvel that they have such store of the Fathers, and that our new masters (as they term us) cannot compare with these Fathers in the doctrines they deliver, when they bring us only the names of fathers. I could give instance likewise, how the Fathers are often contrary one to another; yea, contrary to themselves. Thus I hope it is plainly proved, by these four just exceptions, that the Father's judgements are no infallible rule for a man to build his faith on: though it be embellished with the church's exposition. And yet we reverence and honour them, as men that have brought great light to the understanding of the Scriptures. But what do● you understand by intituling the ancient Fathers with the name of the church?  Papist. 
I mean, 
Har●●g. Rai.  that the joint consent of the Fathers in all doctrines delivered by them is the doctrine of the Church.  Protestant. 
15 What do you mean by the joint consent of the Fathers.  Papist. 
I mean by the joint consent of the Fathers, that, which all, or the most part of them, do deliver for truth; wherein if there be any difference, the greater number is to be followed: for a few may be deceived more easily than many.  Protestant. 
16 This rule seems to be very uncertain; for you know, that king Ahab was deceived, by the consent of false prophets; 
2. Chron. 1● 5, 11.  even 400. against Micaiah: yea, when the Fathers, in the great Council of Nice, were about to decree, that Bishop's Priests & Deacons should not use their wives; Paphnutius alone, 
Sozom. li. 1. cap. 2●.  rose up in the midst of their Council, and freely contradicted it, and prevailed. Besides, in the third Exception before, it is plainly showed, that the greater number of Fathers, are by yourselves rejected in the division of the commandments; and in the controversy between S. Austin and Hierom touching Peter's reproof, par. 1. wherein yourselves grant, 
Torrensis confess. Aug. lib. 2. cap. 1. tim. ●.  that Austin judged more sound. What is therefore then to be done, that a certain and sure ground may be found out?  Papist. 
Then a better and more sure way is that, which by the faithful Pastors of the Church is decreed in a general Council, which cannot err.  Protestant. 
17 Indeed, I must confess, it is a sure way to build our faith upon those Counsels which cannot err: But how shall we be assured that they cannot err?  Papist. 
We are assured by the Scriptures, That the Church cannot err; as is evident by these places following. 
Mat. 18.20.  Our Saviour Christ saith, That when two or three are gathered together in his name, that he will be in the midst. And, 
joh. 16, 13.  he promiseth to send, unto his Church, the holy Ghost, which shall lead them into all truth. 
1. Tim. 3.  And S. Paul calls it the Pillar and ground of truth. Upon which places, and many other, which for brevity I omit; we conclude, that the Church cannot err: which, to speak as the Schoolmen do, we call the Church representative; because the whole Church is there represented in a gerall Council.  Protestant. 
18 Take heed what you do: Will you bring the Church (contrary to the judgement of many learned Papists, mentioned in the preface of this book) to take her authority from the Scriptures, and to be tried by them, whether it may err? If you do, it will be the utter ruin and destruction of your Religion: for the Scriptures will convince the Council of Constance of error; in taking away the cup from the Laity, contrary to S. Paul's express commandment, saying, 
1. Cor. 11.  Let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of this bread, and drink of this cup. And contrary to the Institution and commandment of Christ himself, saying, Drink you all of this. 
Mat. 26.27.  And Saint john witnesseth, that our Saviour Christ saith, 
john 6.53.  Except ye eat the flesh of the son of man, and drink his blood, you have no life in you: and many other testimonies which I omit. It will convince the Council of Nice of error, in decréeing for the worship of Images, contrary to the second commandment. But what shall I need to descend to particularities; it will convince your late Council of Trent, and all other Counsels; in all those points of doctrine, wherein you vary from us: if any Papist dare undertake to bring the controversies between us, to that trial.  
And surely, since they will seem to bring Scriptures, to prove the authority of the church; and, that the church cannot err: I see no reason why they should refuse to make them judge of all differences between us. But I marvel they urge these places of Scripture, to prove that the church representative cannot err: seeing they are not able to show, that any one ancient Father hath so understood them: or, that the whole church is represented in a general Council. Name one Father that is ancient, and not counterfeit, for your credit sake, that hath interpreted these places of Scripture, or any other in that case, as you do. If you cannot, the world may justly hold you for wranglers, and abusers, both of Scriptures and Fathers. But let us a little examine the force of those Scriptures, which if they were all granted, make nothing against us, if they be rightly understood. The first is, When two or three are gathered together etc. This place is as pregnant for two or three faithful men, assembled in Christ's name, as to a Nationall or a Provincial Council: Neither doth it give any greater privilege to a General Council, than it doth unto them; 
Bellar. li. 1. de Conc. ca 12.  though it be alleged by Bellarmine, as the ground for the authorizing of Counsels. All which promise notwithstanding, yourselves grant, That both Nationall and Provincial Counsels may err.  
The next place is the sixteenth of john, where the holy Ghost is promised to the Apostles, to lead them into all truth: which spirit of truth is promised to the church, and to every particular member thereof, for whom our Saviour Christ prayeth, saying, Sanctify them in thy truth, thy word is truth. 
joh. 17.17.19, 20.  And again, I pray not for these alone, but for them also that shall believe in me through their word. But what maketh this for general Counsels, more than the whole church, or every faithful member thereof? For although this proveth, that the holy Ghost shall ever remain with the church, and with every true member of the same: yet must we not hereof conclude, (though it be as pregnant for every faithful particular man, as for the whole) That either every member of Christ, or every Pastor that is the Apostles successor, cannot err: Neither is this to be restrained to general Counsels, or to the Pope: neither must we think, that any visible Church may challenge all privileges, that the Apostles had, as necessary to the conversion of the world. 
Rhem. Test. john 16.  But your Rhemists will tell you, that to teach all truth, and to preserve in truth, and from error, the holy Ghost is promised and performed, only to the Church, and the choice governor and general Counsels. Upon which the Papists conclude, that if the Church cannot err, the governors of the church cannot err. Is not this substantial reasoning? The whole church cannot err; Ergo, the Pastors and preachers cannot err. Deal plainly and directly; Do you hereby conclude that all Pastors cannot err: or that no Pastor can err? For to say, that no Pastor can err, were apparent madness, and to say that all Pastors cannot err, stands you in no stead: neither is this a good argument, The whole Church cannot err; that is, all and every faithful cannot err: Ergo, all Pastors cannot err. This is no kind of consequent: for some of the faithful may be directed to the truth, and they no Pastors nor preachers; and many preachers may be preserved from error, and they no Bishops; and many Bishops may kept in the faith, and they not assembled: And a great number of those that be assembled, may be righty affected, and yet not the most part of them. And the greater side may be well disposed, and yet not the Bishop of Rome; without whose confirmation you hold no Council lawful. And therefore this argument is very childish, The whole Church cannot err: Ergo, General Counsels cannot err; and specially the Pope: (of whom we shall speak more particularly hereafter) neither hath the holy Ghost filled with the unmeasurable abundance of grace, any but Christ: 
john 3.34 john 1.16.  for God giveth not the spirit by measure to him; of whose fullness we all receive. And it may well be gathered from the Scriptures, 
2. Cor. 10.13 Eph. 4.7.  that though the holy Ghost be given to the Elect, yet he hath given it by measure, as I may say with Saint Paul: not to this end, that they may not err, but that they may not err to death. For what thing soever is received of another, it is received according to the capacity of that which receiveth it.  
The last is the 1. Tim. 3.15. The Church is the pillar and ground of truth, therefore it cannot err. If this argument were granted, would it follow hereupon, that general Counsels could not err? but this is sufficiently refuted before. And you know that Peter was a pillar of truth, and yet he erred and was reproved by Saint Paul: 
Gal. 2.  yea, your Divines of Paris, 
Articuli Parisienses.  but lately resolved, that Peter erred in faith when Paul reproved him. And the very drift and scope of the place showeth, That Timothy is not sent by Saint Paul to the church, to learn his duty, but to the Scripture. These things writ I unto thee, (saith he) hoping to come shortly; but if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living GOD, the pillar and ground of truth.  
This church then, which Timothy was conversant in, is the church of Ephesus, called by S Paul, The pillar and ground of truth: But this church of Ephesus hath condemned the doctrine of the Pope's supremacy; 
Conc. Flor. Sess. vlt. Chalcocondylas de Reb. Turc. lib. 6.  to which other churches of the East have likewise condescended. Therefore, if that be true still, which the Church teacheth, because S. Paul calleth it the pillar and ground of truth; then the doctrine of the Pope's supremacy is wicked, and Papistry is heresy: yea even this church, notwithstanding it was called the pillar and ground of truth, is now left desolate to Mahomet's wicked impiety.  
But let us see by some few testimonies of the Fathers, how they have expounded this place, and whether they have applied it to general Counsels as the Papists do, and not rather to the whole Church consisting of the faithful, as the Protestants understand it.  
S. August. saith, 
Aug. in Psal 47. in pr●ef  We may not understand the second of the Sabbath, to be any other than the Church of Christ, yet the Church of Christ in the Saints; the church of Christ in those that are not overcome with the temptations of this wicked world: for they are worthy the name of firmament. Therefore the church of Christ is called the firmament, in those that are firm, which is, saith he, the Church of the living God, the pillar and firmament of truth. 
Aug. de Bap li. 7. cap: 3 Tom. 6.  The like saying hath S. Augustine in many other places, but specially where he writeth against the Donatists.  
Saint chrysostom expoundeth this place of the verity itself, 
Chrys. Ho● 11, in 1. Tim. 3.  and not of the Pastors or Counsels, as the Papists do: For (saith he) the verity of the church is both the pillar and the firmament. And if you will see that the Fathers have understood the church, as the Protestants do; read S. Augu. 
Enchirid. ● Laurent. ca● 56.  expounding the Articles of the Créed, where he saith that the Church is here to be taken for the whole, & not for that part only, which is a stranger upon earth.  

Aug. in Psal. 137.  Again, he saith, There is a Church beneath, there is a Church above, the Church beneath in all the faithful, etc.  

Ibid. Psal. 90. Conc. 2.  Likewise, the whole church every where diffused is the body of Christ, and he is the head of it: Not only the faithful which are now, but also they that were before us, from the beginning of the world, and they that shall be after us, to the end of the world, do all pertain to this body. The church is the body of Christ, not the church which is here or there, but which is here and every where, throughout the world, etc. And often times in his writings he affirmeth the Catholic church to consist of all the predestinate, 
De civitat. Dei, li. 21. ca 25. de Bapt. ●i. 6. ca 3. In john Tract. 45.  which are the members of Christ's mystical body, and that no wicked men pertain unto it, but only the good, holy and just. But to conclude this point, with one whom you have ever reputed your own.  
Anselmus super hunc locum, saith, The house in which God dwelleth, is the whole congregation of the faithful; who are to be taught diversly: and the same Church is in the perfect, a pillar; that is, sublime, straight, inconcussible, supporting and lifting up the younger sort: and in the same perfect, it is the firmament of truth, because both by words and examples it confirmeth, in the hearts of the weak, the verity of faith and Gods commandments. Thus you see the Church is by these testimonies understood to be the congregation of the faithful, and not general Counsels, or Pope. And it is truly gathered out of these words of Anselmus; which are to be taught, that the church consisteth aswell of the Laity as the Clergy. Now if you will see how the church may be known, chrysostom saith, 
Hom. in Mat. 49,  Before it might be showed many ways, which was the church of Christ; But now it is no way to be known, but only by the Scriptures. S. Augustine saith, (as we may truly say of the Papists) Let the Donatists (saith he) show their church, 
De unitat. eccles. ca 16.  not in the rumours and speeches of the men of Africa, nor in the Counsels of their Bishops, nor in their discourses of any writer whosoever, nor in signs and miracles that may be forged; but in the prescript of the law, in the predictions of the Prophets, in the verses of the Psalms, in the voices of the shepherd himself, in the preachings and works of the Evangelist, that is in all the Canonical authorities of the sacred Scriptures. And binding himself to the same condition, he addeth, But whether they hold the Church, 
Ibidem.  let them show no otherwise than by the Canonical books of the holy scriptures, because we ourselves do not say, we must therefore be believed, for that we are in the church of Christ; or else for that Optatus, Ambrose, and infinite other Bishops of our communion have commended the church which we hold; or because our Church hath been published in the Counsels of our Colleagues.  

Chrysost. in Mat. Hom. 16.  chrysostom saith, Even so touching this new jerusalem which is the Church, they that were spiritual Christian men, leaving the bodily church, which the wicked by violence had invaded, departed out from them. Or as S. john expoundeth it, they rather departed out from us: for he seemeth not (indeed) to departed from the church, that bodily departeth, but he that spiritually leaveth the foundations of the Ecclesiastical truth. We have departed from them in body; they have departed from us in mind: we from them in place; they from us by faith: we have left with them the foundations of the walls; they with us the foundations of the scriptures: we are departed from them in the sight of man; they are departed from us in the judgement of God. But now after that the spiritual church is come forth, the bodily church is left forsaken: that is to say, from the people that seemed to be a christian people, & was not; this people is gone forth, that seemed not outwardly, but was so indeed: notwithstanding as we have said before, they are rather departed from us, than we from them. Now let the indifferent Reader judge by Chrysostom's judgement, whether the Papists or we, by this description may be truliest reputed the true church: for I think it is evident to all, that they have the foundations of the walls, and we the foundations of the Scriptures, which they so blasphemously speak of: we are departed from them in the sight of man; but they from us in the sight of God: & who they were that seemed to be a christian people, and were not; let that be tried by the Scriptures. And, if you will know what authority the Fathers give to the church, S. Aug. saith, 
Cont. Cresc● li. 2. ca 21. Idem oper. imperf. in Mat. Ho. 49  The church may not prefer herself before Christ; neither may we believe the true churches themselves, unless they say & do those things that are consonant to the scriptures.  
The church may not prefer herself before Christ, 
Idem contr● Crescon. li 2 cap. 21.  for so much as he always judgeth rightly; & ecclesiastical judges, as being but men, are often deceived. Many be the testimonies that might be brought to this purpose: but to proceed, we make the same just exceptions against general Counsels, that we did against the Fathers.  
First, we will prove that they are contrary one to another.  
Secondly, that they have erred.  
And lastly, that they are rejected by the Papists.  

Canon 59  The first Exception I prove thus; (for I will be brief) The Council of Laodicea, (though a provincial Council, 
Constant. in Trullo, Can. 2.  yet allowed by a general Council of Constantinople) did set down the same Canon of the Scriptures, which both the old church had, and our church doth hold; and commandeth, Ne aliqui praeterea legantur, & in auctoritatem recipiantur. That none besides be read, and received into authority.  

Canon. 47. Sess. 3.  The third Council of Carthage which therein the Council of Trent subscribeth to, did add the books of the Maccabees, and the rest of the Apocrypha, to the old Canon, contrary to the said Counsels of Laodicea and Constantinople.  

Can. 6.  The Council of Nice appointed bounds and limits, aswell for the Bishop of Rome's jurisdiction, as for other Bishops: contrary to which the Council of Lateran gave the Sovereignty of ordinary power, 
Can. 5. apud Innocent. 3.  to the church of Rome, 
Conc. Constant. as it is extant, Nice 2. Act. 6. Tom. 6.  over all Churches.  
The Council of Constantinople condemned the setting up of Images: contrary to which The Council of Nice, 
Aen. Sylu. de Conc. Basil. contr. Flor. & Perrar. Conc. Constant. Sess. 4. & 5.  accurseth those that worship not holy images. I will enlarge this part no further, though I could show, that some Counsels have decreed, That the Council is above the Pope: some that the Pope is above the Council.  
The next is thus proved: First, this is an infallible rule, That Counsels decréeing things contrary (as is instanced in these few examples before) It must of necessity follow, that the one of them must err: yet will I prove it by some more particulars.  
The second Council of Nice, decreed, 
Act. 5.  That Angels and men's souls are bodily & circumscriptible: and yet this Council, notwithstanding this gross error, was confirmed by the Council held at Constantinople; which Pope Agatho hath allowed for a general Council.  
In the Council of Neocesaria confirmed by Leo the 4. second marriage is forbidden. 
Canon 7.  The Canon saith, he is commanded to enjoin penance for second marriage.  
The Council of Toletan saith, 
Tolet. 1. Can. 17.  He that hath not a wife, but in stead of his wife, a concubine, is not for this cause to be repelled the communion. This Council was confirmed by Leo, ●s it may appear, Canon 21.  
In the sixth general Council, 
Can. 72.  the marriages betwixt Catholics and Heretics are judged to be void. Now whether these be gross and manifest errors, I refer it to the censure of any indifferent Reader. But these absurdities they are forced to give way to, or else to overthrow that main pillar of Popery, That the Church cannot err. The last part which I promised to show, is; That Counsels are rejected by the Papists. This is proved, for that many things are rejected by them in both the said Exceptions: But I will instance some few more.  
Andradius the defender of the Tridentine Council, in his first book, rejecteth the Council of Chalcedon, one of those first four Counsels (which Gregory professeth to receive, as the holy Gospels) saying, This Council erred, in that it did rashly, and without reason ordain; That the Church of Constantinople, should be above the Church of Alexandria and Antioch.  

Conc. Chal. de Laicis, ca 20. Praefat. in li, de pont.  Bellarmine saith, That in the Council of Chalcedon, there is something good, and something evil, and that we may receive the one, and refuse the other. And in another place he dispenseth with himself to reprove, in the sam● manner, the Council of Constantinople, for having attempted somewhat, that did not ●lease the Church of Rome. 
Bellar. de Conc. & eccles. li, 10. ca 60.70. Pighi. Hier. eccles. li. 6. cap. 4. & 5. & 7.  And he rejecteth wholly seven general Counsels. Read likewise what Pighius hath written of purpose ●o discredit the sixth and seventh Synods. And ●e impugneth the Council of Constance and Basil.  
Now though we have proved the three particularities proposed, wherein our lawful and ●●st Exceptions against Counsels are evident: ●et let us see whether our assertion in this point ●e justified both by the Fathers, and chief and ●earned Papists.  
Saint Augustine saith, That general Counsels are often amended, the former by ●he later: and if our adversaries object, That ●hey are amended but not from errors; What ●éede amending where no fault is? The con●itions, which S. Augustine repeateth in the ●●rst, endureth to the last, Si quid fortè à verita●e deviatum est, If in aught they swarm from ●he truth. And it is manifest by the drift of ●he place, writing against the Donatists, 
Epist. 7●. 〈◊〉 jubai.  that maintained the authority of the Council holden by S. Cyprian against the truth, that he speaketh manifestly of Correction of errors, ●nd not of things indifferent, as the Papists ●lose to maintain their error; That general Counsels cannot err.  

In Epist. ad procopi.  The Arrians prevailed so by Counsels, that it made Gregory Nazianzen, to despair, that ever any good would be done by Counsels  
Saint Augustine rehearsing two Episcopal judgements, 
Epist. 16.7.  that passed against the Donatists, in the Counsels at Rome and Arle, he showeth how Counsels might bind us: But, (saith he) let these be counted the judgements of men, and let it be said, They might either deceive, or be deceived, and perhaps corrupted.  
Saint Augustine having showed, that th● Council of Ariminum, being deceived by the subtlety of a few, decreed against the Council of Nice, which had decreed against the Arrian Heretics, 
Cont. Maxi. li. 3. ca 14.  concludeth thus against Maximinus; But now, neither ought I to produc● the Council of Nice, nor you the Council o● Ariminum, for a prejudice: for neither am I bound to the authority of this, nor you to th● authority of that. Thus you see he confesseth that his adversary was not tied to the authority of the great Nicen Council: comparabl● to the which no Council was ever yet. Yea, S Hilary was nothing afraid to be condemne● in many Counsels. 
Hillar. count Auxent. & Arrian.  Now let him gather wha● Counsels he will against me (saith he) and openly proscribe me for an Heretic, as he had often done. The Arrians in 26 years, 
Euseb. li. 7. cap. 5.  gathered & framed sundry Counsels for their purpose at Tyrus, jerusalem, Philippi, Sirmium, Ariminum, 
Sozom. li. 4. ca 9  Selucia, Constantinople, and two at Antiochia. In the Council of Milan, above three hundred of the West Bishops consented, that Athanasius should be thrust from his Bishopric. There was but five against three hundred, that openly and plainly withstood it. And Leo writeth of the famous Council of Chalcedon, Tanquam refutari nequeat quod illicitè volverit multitudo; 
In Epist. 52. ad Anatholium.  As though that might not be refuted, which a multitude hath unlawfully decreed. Yea, 
Panor. de Elect. & electi potestate, c. significasti.  your own men have been of the same opinion with us. Panormitane, the best of your Canonists; yea, a reverend Archbishop, and a renowned Cardinal saith, A Council may err, as otherwise, a Council hath erred about marriage to be contracted between the Ravisher, & the Ravished: and the saying of Hierome, as being of the sounder opinion, was after preferred, before the Statute of the Council. And the argument which Papists make, That the church should fail in faith, if Counsels should err, he rejecteth as frivolous, saying; 
Panor. ibid.  It hindereth us little, if it be said, that a Council cannot err, because Christ prayed for his Church, that it should not fail. For though a general Council represent the whole universal Church, yet to speak truth, the universal Church is not there precisely, but by representation; because the universal Church consisteth of all the faithful. And this is the Church which cannot err, etc.  

Pighius Hiera●. eccl. li. 6. ca 4. & 5.  Pighius saith, it is certain, that Counsels are not the universal Church. In none of all the general Counsels shall you find, the fathers to have arrogated thus much to themselves, as to say they represented the Catholic Church; besides these two last Counsels of Constance, and Basil, which we now impugn. And that General Counsels may err, he saith, 
Li. 6. ca 13.  It is certain, that not only these Counsels (of Constance and Basil) which we now disprove, have shamefully & absurdly erred, but also many others. And again, We find that General Counsels, even of holy Fathers, have erred in decrees of faith: for example of General Counsels; The Council of Ariminum, universal no doubt, and also the second Council of Ephesus, and that likewise universal: These I say are witnesses, That even general Counsels, and those lawfully gathered may err. The Bishops that were present at Ephesus, commplained after in the Council of Chalcedon, 
Chalced. Conc. Act. 1.  that they were threatened and forced. Now if Bishops may be forced, they may likewise be circumvented, as they were in the Council of Ariminum; or deceived in opinion, as they were in the Counsels of Carthage, Constance, and Basill, by the confession of learned Papists themselves. And if they may by all these ways be perverted when they are assembled, Ergo, they may make both an erroneous & an injurious conclusion. Wherefore, since it appears evidently by this little that hath been said, That General Counsels are no infallible rule, to build our faith on: What must we then do, to find out a sure Ground, whereupon to ground our Religion?  Papist. 
The last, and only means, without all exception, is the Pope; whose faith cannot fail, neither can he err judicially. So that whether with the Counsels, or without the Counsels, That which he determineth and teacheth is a certain truth: That which he condemneth is a manifest Error.  Protestant. 
19 This answer doth manifest to all that are not wilfully blind, that what brags soever you make of Fathers and Counsels, (who, as Campian boasted in his ten Reasons, were all as sure on your side, as Pope Gregory the thirteenth) that yet yet the Pope is the man, upon whom you ground your Religion: neither esteeming Fathers, Counsels, or the learned of your own side, further than they may stand and concur with the Pope's good pleasure; which by this little Tract may evidently be deduced: For first, you ground your Religion on the Word; the Word on the Fathers; the Fathers on Counsels; and the Counsels on the Pope: So that in all the controversies between us and you, we must stand to the censure of your Pope, who must be both judge and party. And if he give judgement on our side I will never trust him. But to overthrow this pillar of Popery thoroughly, I will prove, that the Pope hath erred judicially: 
●h●. Test. ●uk 22. ●ect. 11.  For albeit they confess, that the Pope may be an Heretic, yea, that Liberius the Pope might yield in persecution; Marcellinus the Pope, for fear, might commit idolatry; Honorius the Pope might fall to heresy, and more than all this, that some judas might creep into the office, as their Rhemists confess: yet they distinguish between the person and the office. And as their last shift and refuge having been driven by force of reason and examples, to acknowledge thus much, They now insist upon this last anchor, as their last hope to avoid shipwreck, That the Pope cannot err judicially; that is, in their Consistories, Courts, Counsels, decrees, deliberations, or consultations kept for decision and determination of such controversies, doubts, or Questions of faith, as shall be proposed to them. Now what wrangling and shifting is this, to ask for the place where, and the time when, the Pope decreed for error? For if he may err at home, he may likewise err abroad. If the Pope be an Heretic in his chamber, he cannot be a Catholic in his Consistory. And if the Pope may believe, defend, and preach an error, what need we care whether his sentence, be conclusive, or persuasive, definitive or interlocutory. And if you think that this idle distinction, can free your Pope from his errors, because thy have not been definitively pronounced in their public Consistories: we could name infinite Bishops and churches that have not erred in this precise manner: For how can you prove that ever the Bishops of York or Durham in England, of Poycters or Lions in France, of Valeria or Corduba in Spain, of Ravenna or Rhegium in Italy, of Corinth or Athens in Greece, of Miletus or Sardis in Asia, gave definitive sentence against the faith, in their public Consistories? Infinite others might be objected, against whom it could never be proved, that they have erred in this kind: and therefore this cannot but be a strong Bulwark whereon you depend & boast, That it cannot be proved, that the Bishop of Rome hath erred, judicially, or definitively. For if Popes have erred in writing and teaching, they were as right Heretics as ever were Arrius, Sabellius, Nestorius, Eutiches, and such like; which never gave Definitive sentence against the faith, in Courts and Consistories, but only taught or wrote, against the truth. But this new Popery was not then, nor many years after found out; though the acquaint jesuits, have of late refined their late Popery, to give a colour to the Pope's privilege.  
And albeit this were sufficient, yet will I briefly proceed and prove, that the Pope hath erred Definitively or judicially; as his Decretals which are Definitive sentences shall evidently prove.  

In Chronic. Supputat. Romanor. pont. de Reg. ●tal. li. 6.  First Sigebert, Martinus Polonus, and Sigonius do witness that Pope Stephen the 6. decreed in a Council, That they who were ordained Bishops by Pope Formosus, were not ordained lawfully, because the man was wicked by whom they were ordained. And he did not only deprive, and unordaine them who were ordained by Formosus, but he decreed too, as Sigebert noteth, 
Ordinationes eius omnes irrita● esse debere decernit.  That all the ordaining of Formosus, aught to be void: And this, 
* Pag 42. 7▪ Council Raven An. Do 898. Sigon. de Reg. Ita● li. 6.  Master heart against Doctor Raynolds confesseth to be an error in faith. And john the ninth in the Council of Ravenna, condemned Stephen and his Council, and therein their new ordaining are forbidden, and matched with new Baptizing.  
Pope Celestine the third did set forth a decree, that, when of married persons, one falleth into heresy, the marriage is dissolved; and the Catholic party is free to marry again: 
Mat. 19.9.  flat against the Scriptures.  
And Alfonsus, 
Alfon. à Castro adver. Haeres. li. 1. ca 4.  a famous patron of the Papacy, doth show, that he defined it. For, that Pope Celestine did err (saith Alfonsus) about the marriage of the faithful, of whom one falleth into Heresy, It is manifest to all men: Neither was this error of Celestine such, as aught to be imputed to negligence alone; That we may say he erred as a private man, and not as a Pope, who in defining of any serious matter, should ask counsel of learned men. For this definition of Celestine was extant in the old Decretals, which I myself have seen and read. 
Super quart. decretal. c. quanto de ●iuortijs. ● Idem siquidem de con●ers. infid. c. audabilem. Gratia dist. 9 c. in ●omi. § adrian in 4: ●ent. de con●irma. ca vlt. Gerson & Almain Pa●isiēses The●logi. Decret. li 4. ●e divort. ●uanto. ● Ibid. praedecessor. Decretal. li. ●. de de●onsa duorum 〈◊〉 licet praeter.  And this is confirmed by Cardinal Hostiensis, who noteth the very paragraph of the Chapter, in the which it was, and speaketh of it as a Decretal. And that the Pope may err in judgement of faith, Gratian, Adrian, Gerson, and Almain, the Divines of Paris affirm. Innocentius the third, when he decided the cause, confessed, that one of his predecessors had decreed otherwise; which, saith the Gloze, was Coelestinus: whose resolution was in the old Decretals, and it was evil that Coelestinus said.  
Alexander the third, in a matter of great importance, said, Quamuis aliter à quibusdam praedecessoribus nostris sit aliquando iudicatum. Though some of our predecessors have heretofore otherwise given judgement. And if you object (for you will ever find some shift) that these were matters of marriage, and not of faith: as though the severing of those, whom God hath joined, did not touch the faith.  

●e conse. distin. 2. Ego Beren.  Nicolaus the second, in a Council of 114. Bishops, appointed Berengarius to confess, That the very body of Christ is in truth, and sensually broken, and bruised in pieces with the teeth of the faithful. And this confession the Pope received, allowed, and sent to the Bishops of Italy, Germany, and France, as Catholic; which your own Gloze saith, 
Ibid. c. dentibus.  is a greater heresy than ever Berengarius held, unless you understand this of the outward forms of Bread and Wine, and not of the body of Christ.  
Honorius the Pope did hold and teach the Monothelites heresy, 
1. Tim. 3 16 Luk. 22.42  who (whereas Christ is made our Saviour and Redeemer, by that he doth consist of two natures, God and man; and as of two natures, so of two wills agreeable to the natures) they say that Christ hath but one will only, and by consequent but one nature. The sixth general Council hath handled the cause of the Monotholite heretics, in 18. actions, as they are termed. In the first action, the 8. and the 11. the heretics allege in their own defence, that Pope Honorius taught as they do. In the 12. & 13. his writings are examined, his heresy discovered, himself condemned and cursed. In the 16. 17, & 18. 
Honor. ha●retico Anthema.  the sentence which was given against him, and the curse are repeated often, again and again with acclamation of the Council: yea, the principal point of his Decrees, 
Vid: Rayn● ver. heart ● diu. 2. pag 293.  set forth to teach the Church, was the Monothelites heresy: this is confirmed by chief Papists.  

Abbas Vrs●erg. Ann. 1080. ●a●ciculus ●er sciendar. ●n vita & ●est. Hilde●randi.  Pope Gregory the 7. was condemned by the Bishops of France and Germany, as the ancient disciple of the Heretic Berengarius, and swerving from the true faith: And in special words; This is Hildebrands Decree, in which he erred from the Catholic doctrine and faith. Now let the indifferent Reader judge between you and us, whether the Pope be a competent judge. But how may it appear, that to him is committed so great a charge, and that his sentence is so absolute, that all authorities of Scripture, Fathers, and Counsels, must submit themselves to his Censure?  Papist. 
The absolute authority of his Holiness is proved by many places of Scripture; as, Thou art Peter, 
Mat. 16.18.  and upon this Rock will I build my Church: and, the gates of hell shall not prevail against it: 
●uk. 22.32.  and, I have prayed for thee Peter, that thy faith fail not: and, Thou being converted, strengthen thy brethren: and, Feed my sheep: 
●oh. 21.17  Feed my lambs. And many other places of Scriptures, Fathers, and Counsels do confer this special privilege upon Peter and Peter's Successors: By which means, all Controversies whatsoever may be determined.  Protestant. 
This is strange Divinity, and stranger Logic: Christ said, Thou art Peter, & upon this Rock will I build my Church. Ergo, the Church is builded only upon Peter and the Pope. The gates of hell shall never prevail against the Church. Ergo, Peter and the Pope. are the Church, against which the gates of hell shall not prevail. I have prayed for thee Peter, that thy faith fail not: Ergo, whatsoever is determined by the Pope is not subject to error. And Christ said to Peter, Feed my sheep. Ergo, he made him supreme head of the Apostles: Or thus, Christ did charge Peter to feed his sheep: But the Apostles were sheep of Christ; Ergo, he had the charge of feeding them also, and so had absolute authority. Now to make you see the folly of this manner of reasoning, observe this argument, and you shall by that means easily discern the weakness of your own reason; Christ did charge his Apostles to preach the Gospel to every creature: But Peter was a creature; Ergo, they had charge of preaching to him also. And this must needs oversway your reason, if a man would play with words: For Christ said not to Peter, feed all my sheep: but he said to the Apostles, preach to every creature. And if these consequents be good, then is it an easy and a safe way to decide all differences, and we might well have spared all these pains: for it will necessarily follow, that if the Pope cannot err in any point of doctrine or discipline of the Church, than the Scriptures, Fathers, & Counsels, are superfluous: 
Act. 15.  Neither is that Gloze to any purpose, that the Rhemists make; That the various means of determination, trial, and declaration of the truth, is necessary for the recovery of Heretics, and for the contentation of the weak; who not always giving over to one man's determination, will either yield to the judgement of all the learned men, and Blshops of all Nations, or else remain desperate. For since there is so variable censures of Counsels: 
Aene. Sylu. de Concil. Basil. contr. Flor. & Ferrar. in Conc. indict. Concil. Const. Sess. 4. &. 5.  some holding the Pope to be above the Council; and some holding the Council to be above the Pope; If this point be sound proved, That Peter's See hath so the assistance of the holy Ghost, that it cannot err: all other causes of the necessity of Fathers, or learned Bishops of all Nations, is superfluous: for if the privilege of not erring belong to the Pope and his successors; why is it made common to them, with the rest of the Church? If it appertain to the whole Church, why is it appropriated to the Pope? But why do they bring Scriptures to prove this special privilege, to belong to the Pope: Seeing Canus and Bellarmine, two great Champions of the Romish Church do both confess, that It is not in the Scripture, but by Tradition, that the Pope hath this supremacy. 
Locor. Theolo. li 6. c. 8.  First Canus doth grant, That it is not written in the Scriptures, that the Pope succeed Peter in the supremacy. And Bellarmine the great jesuite saith, That whereas Canus thought, that the stories have sufficient ground to convey Peter's right unto the Pope; because they say, Peter set his chair at Rome, & there died: yet saith he, 
Controu. 4. q. 5. de pont. finitae. 26. Maij. An. 1578.  if learned men shall not allow of that, Another ground may be, that the Church received it, though not by Scripture, yet by Tradition. And to put the matter out of controversy, he defineth, that indeed it is a Tradition, not of Christ, 
Licet Romanos Episcopos Petro succedere in sacris libris non habeatur Scriptum: ab Apostolis tamen Ecclesiae quasi per Manus Traditum est. Romanum pontificem esse Petri successorem in pontificatu totius orbis habetur extraditione Apostolica: etri.  but of the Apostles: and lest we should doubt of which of the Apostles, he nameth the man, Peter; even a tradition of Peter. And therefore if you will follow the judgement of this learned jesuite, which you all receive with so great applause, then renounce the unlearned follies of your Rhemists and others, who violently wrest the Scriptures, to prove the Pope's privilege. For when you urge these places, Thou art Peter, and on this rock, etc. and, I have prayed for thee Peter; and, Peter, feed my sheep; You presume much of the simplicity of your hearers: otherwise you would never reason so absurdly. For though Stapleton, and some others upon the 16. of Matth. by these words; Thou art Peter, etc. allege the first Popes of Rome, most holy martyrs, to prove the Pope's Supremacy, by the Scriptures: and do reckon up Anacletus, Alexander the 1. Pius the 1. Victor, Zepherinus, Marcellus, Melchiades, 
Locor. Theolo. li. 6. c. 8 Bellar. count 4. q. 5.  julius, and others; yet doth Canus and Bellarmine prove, that it is grounded on Tradition; and Canus doth cite for witnesses thereof, the first Popes of Rome, most holy martyrs. And the same Popes which are alleged by Canus, to prove the Supremacy, to be an unwritten truth; the very same Popes are alleged by Stapleton, to prove, that, It is written: even Anacletus, Victor, Zepherinus, Marcellus, Melchiades & julius: yea, the very same Epistles are alleged by Stapleton, which are alleged by Canus. Now if they be rightly cited by Canus, how may we trust Stapleton? if rightly by Stapl. how may we trust Canus? if rightly by both, what trim Popes are they, the with one breath do say, That the same thing is both written and unwritten. But the jesuite dealeth more warily: who seeing the danger of naming special men and places, doth shroud himself in the general terms, of Counsels, Popes, and Fathers.  
Thus you see how the Lord doth sheathe the swords of the Madianites in their own sides. 
judg. 7.22.  But let us see how the Fathers understood these Scriptures that are brought to privilege the Pope from erring, and set down their sayings at large, though we have briefly before in the 14. Question, part 3, urged their authorities. 
Aug. de ver. Domini secundum Mat. serm. 13.  S. Augustine expoundeth the first place thus; Thou art Peter, (saith Christ) and upon this Rock, which thou hast confessed, upon this Rock, which thou hast acknowledged, by saying, Thou art Christ the Son of the living God, will I build my Church; that is, upon myself, the Son of the living God, will I build my Church; I will build thee upon me, not myself upon thee. S. Hillary saith, 
Hillar. de Trin. li. 30  This only is the immovable foundation, This only is the happy rock of faith, which was confessed by Peter's mouth, Thou art the Son of the living God: Then upon this rock of confession, standeth the building of the Church.  

Ambr. in 2. ca epist. ad Ephe.  Saint Ambrose saith, The Lord saith to Peter, Upon this rock will I build my Church; that is in this confession of the Catholic faith. Faith therefore is the foundation of the Church: for it was not spoken of Peter's flesh, but of faith, That hell gates should not prevail against it: but that confession conquered hell.;  

Chrys. Hom. 55. in Mat.  chrysostom saith, Upon this Rock will I build my Church; that is, upon this faith and confession.  

Bed. in ca 21. johan.  Bede likewise, Upon this Rock which thou hast confessed, will I build my Church. That Rock was Christ, upon the which foundation, even Peter himself was to be builded.  

1. Cor. 3.  These Fathers mean as Saint Paul doth, saying, Another foundation can no man lay, than that which is already laid, which is jesus Christ.  
Others there are of the Fathers, that apply this rock to Peter; but not as though he alone were the foundation, but including the rest with him. 
Hiero. lib. 1. adver. jovin.  As for example; Saint Hierom saith, Thou wilt say the Church is built on Peter: notwithstanding the self same in another place is done upon all the Apostles, and they all receive the Keys of the kingdom of heaven, and the steadfastness of the Church, is equally settled upon them.  
Origen saith, If only upon Peter, 
Origen. in 16. Math. Tract. 1.  thou thinkest the whole Church to be built, what wilt thou say to john, and every of the Apostles? shall we dare say, that against Peter only, the gates of hell shall not prevail? And that also upon this Rock I will build my Church: For if this speech, To thee will I give the Keys of the kingdom of heaven, be common to all; why then should not all that which goeth before and followeth after, as spoken to Peter, be common to them all?  
The next place is, I have prayed for thee Peter, etc. What then? shall we conclude hereof, that Peter and his successors cannot fail in any point of faith, wherein they give definitive sentence; and, that the Pope cannot err judicially? No, but hereby is meant a lively Christian faith, which is not our private exposition (as they commonly object against us) but the judgement of Austin, 
Aug. de correp. & gratia ca 8. Chrys. Hom. 83. in Mat. & 72. in john. Prosper de vocatione gent. c. 24. Theoph. in Luk. 22.  chrysostom, Prosper, and Theophilact; who all do understand by faith in that place, a lively Christian faith, and say, That Christ prayed, that Peter might continue therein to the end: which grace, neither they nor any Father saith, that all the Popes have: Nay, your Doctors, 
Turrec. in sum, de eccle. ca 12. Can. locor. Theo. li. 6. cap. 1. Bellar. count 4 par. 2. q. 1. In annot. Luk. 22. Bed. in Gal. 2 Theophil. in Luc. 23. Chrysost. in Mat. Ho. 83.  Turrecremata, Canus, Bellarmine, and your Rhemists confess the contrary: As I (saith Bede, speaking in the person of Christ) have by prayers protected thy faith, lest by temptation of Satan it should have failed: so thou also remember, to lift up and comfort thy weak brethren, by example of thy repentance, lest peradventure they should despair of pardon. And our Saviour Christ did by these words, put him in mind of his fall, to cool the heat of pride and vainglory, if I may so say with Theophilact and chrysostom.  

Fulk. in Rhem. Test. in Luk 22. Sectin.  And S. Basil citeth this text, to prove, that we ought to pray for them, that are sought in temptations. In these words you see, are taught the duty of Peter, & of every Christian man, in the like case; & no prerogative either for Peter, or his successors. And upon that place, Feed my sheep, the Fathers build no prerogative of Peter, but rather do interpret it of his love & duty; as S. Augustine, 
Aug. 123. in Ioh Tract. Cyril. li. 12. ca 46. in joh. Chrysost. in joh. Ho. 87.  Cyril, and chrysostom do expound the place; where, to a threefold denial, is rendered a threefold confession, lest his tongue should be less serviceable to love, than it was to fear. And there is a reason given according to the Scripture, why Peter should love more, because he had offended more; for to whom more is remitted, he ought to love more, as Cyril saith. So that out of the judgement of these Fathers, Peter's offence to be greater than the rest, may better be proved, than any prerogative to Peter or the Pope: 
Fulk. in Rhe. Test. in joh. 21, sect. 4.  see their testimonies more largely set down by D. Fulke against the Rhemists: yea, this point is so clear, that it is confirmed by the testimony of chief and learned Papists themselves.  
Alfonsus saith, 
Alfons. li. 1. ca 4, caus. 24. q.  Every man may err in faith, even the Pope himself: and the same is confessed, by the best of your side, both Canonists and Divines. 
De Flect. C. Significast.   
Panormitane saith, A Council may condemn the Pope of Heresy, as appeareth in in the 40. dist. ca Si Papa. where it is said, That the Pope may be an Heretic, and judged of Heresy.  
Alfonsus saith, The Pope may err in faith: 
Alfons. li. 1. cap. 7.  as the truer opinion is, even of them that favour the Popedom very much, Among whom is Innocentius, the 4. of that name, Bishop of Rome, writing upon the first Chapter de trinitate.  
Arboreus, 
Theosoph. li. 4, cap. 32.  a Doctor of Paris & one of your chief Sorbonistes saith, The Pope may err in faith: And he seemeth to me to be in foul Error, that thinketh otherwise. Surely they but flatter the Bishop of Rome, that make him free from falling into Heresy and Schism.  
Gerson, the Chancellor of Paris saith, The Pope may serve from the faith, 

Gerson. in Tract. An liceat in causa fidei à pontifice appellare. Panor. apud Syl. de fide § 9  
sylvest de ecclesi. § 4.   as well as an other Bishop.  
Panormitan saith, Thus must the Gloze be understood, which saith, that the Church cannot err, is not the Pope, but the congregation of the faithful; that is such as hold firmly that doctrine, which S. Peter, with other people, taught.  
And the Popes own Gloze upon his Decrees, doth describe the Church which cannot err, 
Can. 14. q. 1 Can. A recta in gloss.  to be the Congregation of the faithful; saying, I ask thee, O Pope Lucy, of what Church thou understandest that, which thou tellest us in this place, to wit, That the Church cannot err: for if thou understandest it of the Pope himself, it is very certain that the Pope may err. I answer therefore, that the Church is here taken for the congregation of the faithful: and such a Church cannot err.  

Lyrain Mat. ca 6.  Lyra saith, Many Popes have proved Apostates. But what need I to descend to particulars, to prove that the Pope may not only err in doctrine, but also be an heretic? since it is a ruled case by your Schoolmen and canonists: As, 
a in dial. p. 1. li. 6. ca 1.  Occam, 
b In summa. lib 5. Tit. de Haeret.  Hostiensis, 
c Summa de eccles. li. 2. ca 93. & 112.  Turrrecremata, 
d De Schismat. pont.  Zabarella, 
e De concord. Catho. li. 2. cap. 17.  Cusanus, 
f Summa part. 3 Tit. 22, cap. 7.  Antoninus, 
g Adverse. Haer. li. 1. ca 2 & 4.  Alfonsus, 
h Locor. Theol. lib. 6, cap 8,  Canus, 
i De visib. Monar. li 7.  Sanders, 
k Contro. 4. p 2. qu. 1.  Bellarmine, 
l Canonist. in distinct. 40, si Papa Archid. & johan. Andrae. in fidei de Haereticis in Sext. Caietan de authoritat. Pap. & Conc. cap. 20. & 23.  and others, 
m Dist. 40. si Pa,  yea, the Canon law itself, 
n 
Synod. Roma. quint. sub Symacho.  
Math. Paris. in Henrico 3. sub. Anno 1253.  
Mathaei Chroni. in An. 1409.   yea, A Council, a Roman Council confirmed by the Pope do grant it.  
But to conclude this point, wherein it may seem, I have been too tedious: Six hundred prelate's, 124. Divines, and almost three hundred Lawyers, with the whole College of Cardinals, in your general Council of Pisa, deposed two Popes, Gregory the 12. and Benedict the 13. 
o Naucler. Chronogr. genera. 47. Anno 1409.  as Schismatics and Heretics. Your Council of Constance, whereas you say were 
p Genebrard. li: 2. Chronograph. Anno 1414.  4. patriarchs, 29. Cardinals, 47. Archbishops, 270. Bishops, 564. Abbots and Doctors; in all above 900. deposed the same Benedict (persisting in his Popedom notwithstanding the former sentence) as being Schismaticum & Haereticum &c. A Schismatic, 
Conc. Constant. Sess. 37  and an Heretic swerving from the faith, and a wilful notorious, & manifest subverter of the Article of our faith, One holy Catholic Church. Now, can there be any doubt, that these Popes were never comprised in that prayer, which Christ made for Peter? Or that hell gates have not prevailed against them? When Pope Marcellinus did offer sacrifice to idols, as appears in the Synuessan Council, Pope Liberius subscribed to the Arrians, as is testified by S. Hier. & confessed by Nicholaus Cusanus, and Alfons. de Castro, both Papists, & great schoolmen. Pope Sylvester the 2. was a Necromancer & a conjuror, as Stella, Platina, Petrus Praemonstratensis, Nauclerus & Antonius do witness. And Pope Anastatius was a Nestorian Heretic, 
Li: 1. de Haerca▪ 4  as is witnessed by Alfons. de Castro. And many such instances might be proved out of their own stories. Thus you see, in what sense soever the Papists understand the Church, it is proved, That it may err. Wherefore, are you not singular men, to abuse both the scriptures, Counsels, & Fathers, yea, & your silly seduced followers, with such conclusions? Are these good consequents at Rheims: Peter was set over the Church, or made Pastor of the Lords flock: Ergo, none but Peter? Even so may you reason with much more warrant from the scriptures, to prove the supremacy to be in Paul; For he saith, 
1, Tim: 1. ●●  The glorious Gospel of the blessed God which is committed to me. Ergo, to none but Paul. Yea, he saith, 
2, Cor: 11, 26  The care of all Churches were committed to him. Ergo, to none but him. This had been a pregnant place for the Papists, if it had been spoken of Peter; according to such inferences as they make. And to urge you a little further: It is your manner in the Rheims Test. to say often, All the Fathers say this and this, and I know you brag much of them, That you can prove all the doctrine you hold, by them: I pray produce their joint consent to prove, That all controversies are to be determined by the Pope; Or that he cannot err; Or, that he must summon Counsels; Or that they are of no authority, unless they be confirmed by the Pope. All this is Catholic doctrine with the Papists: and yet I think they cannot name any one Father that is ancient (and not counterfeit) to confirm thus much; or to avow any of these points. Is it not strange therefore, that you should reject the Scripture, which is the only rule of faith, to build your Religion on such uncertainties, as in this small Tract hath been declared and showed? This, Gerson, a learned Papist saw, and therefore he saith, 
Gers primal part. de exa. doctrine. considerate. 5.  That there is more credit to be given to one man, learned in the Scriptures, and having them of his side, than either to the Pope's sentence, or to the decrees of a general Council. This made Cardinal Caietane say, 
In praef. comment in libr. Moyse.  That God hath not tied the exposition of the Scriptures unto the senses of the Fathers: And that if he fall upon a new sense agreeable to the Text, though it go against the stream of the Fathers, he doth advise the reader not to mislike it. 
Andrad. defensi fidei Trid. li. 2.  This made Andradius the defender of the Tridentine Council, to defend Caietan against Canus; saying, That experience forceth us to confess (unless we will be unthankful to most excellent wits) that very many things in Moses and the Prophets, are in this our age, expounded more exactly, (through the diligence of learned men) than ever they were before. And concludeth, that the holy Ghost, the only and faithful interpreter of the Scriptures, would have many things to be known to us, which our ancestors knew not. And hath wrought by means (unknown to us, known to him) that the Fathers noted good and godly mysteries, out of very many places of the Scripture, whereof the right and natural sense, hath been found out by the posterity. Thus you see, that if we be deceived, Scriptures, Popes, Counsels, Fathers, and learned and chief Papists have deceived us, who have taught the same truth that we defend.  Papist. 
Well: What colours soever you bring, of Scriptures, Fathers, Counsels, Popes, and learned men of our own side, yet this is an undoubted position, that unless you maintain, that the Church cannot err; and that thereby you understand the definitive sentence of the Pope, you bereave yourselves of all means, to settle yourselves in the unity of faith: neither have you any means to end controversies. For leaving every man to his own private exposition, whiles one expoundeth the Scriptures one way, and another another way, This sense is plain in the exposition of the one: That sense is contradicted by the opinion of the other; there can never be end of these differences. And therefore there must be some Tribunal on earth, where truth may be found at all times, and of all men, that be willing to seek for it: Otherwise there should be no stay for Religion, nor end of contention; every man pretending his faith to be truth, and no man having authority to decide which is truth: which were most absurd. And therefore since you must of necessity yield to have a judge for avoiding so great inconveniences: who can be fit than the Pope, and the Church?  Protestant. 
This is Redire ad vomitum; and for the avoiding of a less fault to fall into a greater: Since it is proved, in every sense, where you have taken the Church, That it may err. And therefore how much better were it, that there should be continual disagreement, about matters of Religion, than to maintain false doctrine. Saint Jude saith, It was needful for me to write unto you, 
Jude ver. 3.  to exhort you, that you should earnestly contend, for the faith which was once given unto the Saints. 
1. Cor. 11.19  And Saint Paul saith, There must be Sects amongst you, that they that be perfect may be known. For as we must respect Unity, so we must take heed, that it be Secundum jesum Christum, According to jesus Christ, An unity in verity: For better a diversity in unity, than an unity in Popery. And therefore we are commanded, 
1, joh. 4. 1, Thess. 5.  to try the spirits, whether they be of God. Try all things, and hold fast that which is good. 
Ephes. 5.  Be not unwise, but understand what the will of the Lord is. Be renewed in your mind, 
Rom. 12.  that you may discern what the good and acceptable and perfect will of GOD is. 
Phi. 1.9.  This I pray, that your love may abound yet more and more in knowledge and in all judgement, that you may discern the things that are best. 
1. Cor. 2.  He that is Spiritual discerneth all things. These exhortations were not given by the Spirit of God in vain; which of necessity must follow, if you debar all Christians (other than Clergy men) to be discerners of truth. And it is evident by the Scriptures, that there is a limitation, how far the Bishops and Clergy, are to be obeyed, and what they are to teach. For S. Paul saith, Be ye followers of me, as I am of Christ. 
1, Cor. 7.  So that he requireth no more of the Corinthians, than to follow him as he followeth Christ. And this made him so diligently to distinguish the precepts of Christ, from his own Counsels, To the married I command, not I, but the Lord: & to the rest I speak & not the Lord. And our Saviour Christ, when he gave commission to his Apostles, He bids them, 
Mat. 28.19, 20.  Go teach all nations: but what? To observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you. And therefore chrysostom alleging the words of Saint Paul; 
Chrys. in 1. ca 2, Epist. ad Tim. Hom. 2.  Obey your Overseers or Prelates; doth thus limit them: But if he pervert any point of faith, though he be an Angel, obey him not. And strait after, We must not obey Paul himself, if he speak any thing of his own, or as a man; but we must obey) the Apostle bearing Christ about, that speaketh in him. It is not lawful (saith Tertullian) to devise any thing of ourselves, 
Tertul. de praescrip. advers. Haeret.  nor to follow that which others have devised: we have the Apostles of the Lord for our Authors, who devised nothing of their own heads, but delivered faithfully to the nations the doctrine which they received of Christ. Therefore, though an Angel from heaven should preach otherwise, we should count him accursed. 
* Chrysost. operis imper. Ho. 20. in 7. ca Mat.  Every teacher is a servant of the Law, because he may neither add of his own sense unto the Law, nor according to his own conceit take any thing from the Law, but preach that only which is found in the Law. And these instructions both of Fathers and Scriptures, were to little purpose, if we were not by them taught, how to eschew the evil and follow the good. And surely if the Vicar's Consistory and Seat, 
In Luc. 12.  were infallible, as the Rhemists affirm; what need we respect or study to know, the infinite Testimonies of Scriptures and Fathers, brought to this purpose? But this doth not prove that they are privileged and exempted from Erring. For the Scriptures which were written for our instruction, do plainly convince, that both Priests and Prophets have erred: For God by the Prophet Malachi describeth what the Priests should do, and what they had done. The Priest's lips should preserve knowledge, 
Mala. 2.  and they should seek the Law at his mouth, for he is the messenger of the Lord of hosts. But ye are gone out of the way (O ye Priests) ye have caused many to fall by the Law, ye have broken the covenant of Levi, saith the Lord of hosts. And this proud privilege, which the Popes now challenge, was claimed by the wicked Priests in jeremies' time. Come, 
jere. 18, 1●.  (say they) let us imagine some devise against jeremy: for the Law shall not perish from the Priest; nor counsel from the wise, nor the word from the Prophet. But God assureth them by his Prophet, 
Ezech. 7. 2●  for their arrogant presumption; That the Law should perish from the Priest, and counsel from the ancient. What gross idolatry Vriah the Priest committed, to please King Ahaz, 
2, King. 16.10.11. Esay ●8.  the Scriptures will tell you And Esay saith, The Priest and the Prophet have erred, they have gone away, they fail in vision, they stumble in judgement. And we know there have been many Bishops, and those orderly succeeding, if you look to their dignity, not to the doctrine, who have been heretics, as Berillus, Paulus, Samosatinus, Photinus, Nestorius, Dioscorus, Petrus Apameus, Sergius, Cyrus, Theodorus, Macarius, And many others, Canonically succeeding in Seats and Churches of no small account. And if these fell into pestilent heresies; that which was often and easy then, is contingent and possible still: And succession which saved not them from erring, cannot defend our Popes from the like danger. And therefore are we forewarned, and taught by the Scriptures, to beware and take heed of such men: For S. Paul saith, 
Act● 20.  Out of yourselves shall arise men, speaking perverse things, to draw disciples after them. And the Lord when he saith, Beware of false Prophets, 
Mat. 7.  noteth, that there shall be Prophets by their calling, which shall be found false in their teaching: As Saint Peter also witnesseth; 
2, Pet. 2.  There were false Prophets among the people (of the jews) even as there shall be false teachers amongst you. And to what purpose are these, with many other testimonies? but to teach us that we must distinguish godly teachers, not by office, but by doctrine. And if there were not an ability in us, in some sort to discern them, in vain were we taught to beware of them: neither had the men of Berea been so highly commended for the trial of their Pastor's doctrine, 
Acts 17.11  if it had either been unlawful, or not their duty so to have done. But it seems the Papists insist much upon the outward quiet of their Church, holding out this Bugbear, That the Church cannot err: assuming thereby to be lords of scriptures, Fathers, Counsels, and all when they list: But what heretical Church, may not have the same quietness upon the same persuasion? and yet it prevails in none, but those that can be persuaded; That this false privilege of not erring, belongs to the Church, taking the Church in the same sense which the Papists in this Tract understand it; of Father's Counsels, and the Pope. And who knows not, that notwithstanding your late Council of Trent, and divers other Counsels, and learned books of all sides; That yet the controversies are not ended, being indeed the never ending knot of Religion: For though this persuasion, That the Church cannot err, may sometimes breed an outward quietness in the Church; yet it hath no force to establish men in the unity of Truth, since it may both deceive, and be deceived, as is in this Treatise proved: Nor to end controversies, because all believe it not: nor to abolish heresies, which many times it may favour, as is evident by some few examples, both of Popes and Counsels before alleged. For further example, put the case; That some of the Church are persuaded, according to Christ's Institution, and the practice of the Church of Corinth, that the Laity are not to be rob of the Cup, but are to receive the Eucharist in both kinds: and hereby call the privilege of the Churches not erring into Question, how shall this be decided? Shall it be sufficient for the Church or Pope to say I cannot err? and for proof thereof, to call all his Cardinals, Abbots and Bishops to avow the same, though it be contrary both to Scriptures, Fathers, and the long continued practice of the Church of Christ: having never been prohibited as unlawful, until the Council of Constance, which was 1400. years after Christ. But Controversies may be ended, and heresies abolished, either by convincing those out of the Scriptures, that maintain them; as divers heretics were, before either Pope or Council were thought of: Or by the authority of the Magistrate, commanding for truth, and enjoining their silence and obedience; 
● Chro. 14. ●, 3, 4, 5.  according to the examples of Asa the King of judah; who commanded his people to do according to the Law, 
● Chro. 29.  etc. And Ezechiah who restored the worship of God, and divers other Kings in the old Testament, 
2. Chro. 17▪ for, 3, 4, 5, 8. & ca 19 ver. 4, 8, 9▪ 10, 11 etc. 33. v. 11, 12 13, 15. & c● 34. v. 3, 4, 7, 29.30, 3● 32, 33. & c● 35. v. 1, 2, 3 4.5, 6.  as jehoshaphat, Manasses, josiah, and others, yea, Solomon did dedicate the Temple in his own person and 
* 1. King. 8. & ca 2. v. 3  cast out Abiathar from being Priest unto the Lord, and placed Zadok, in his room. And Saint Austin in many places showeth, Kings are charged with God's Law, in respect of commanding it to others. In the times of the Prophets (saith he) All the Kings, which in the people of God, did not forbid and overthrow those things, 
Aug. Epi. 5  which were brought in against the commandments of God, are blamed: and they that did prohibit, and subvert such things, are praised above the rest.  
And for that part of the objection, that we leave every man to his private exposition, (which though therein we are wrongfully charged by our adversaries) yet the truth is; we challenge not to ourselves (as the Papists do) the true interpretation of the Scriptures, as if they were appropriated unto us: But we submit ourselves, and our interpretations whatsoever (according to the General and received doctrine of the Fathers in that point) to be compared and tried by the Scriptures: Or (to avoid your cavilling) if you will, to the Church, which are men speaking by the Scriptures. Neither is this part of the objection of so great weight or consequence, as it may seem at the first blush. For most of the differences between us and the Papists, are not touching the sense of the Scripture; seeing it is confessed by learned Papists (as I have proved in the preface of this book) that most of the doctrines wherein they vary from us, are grounded on Tradition. And all men of reason know, that where there is no Text, there needs no Interpreter. All the danger therefore, lieth in the last part of the objection; when men's corrupt affections, may take those things for truth which are not; and reject those which are: a thing impossible to be prevented, since every man understands according to the capacity and conceit whereof himself is. And herein likewise is the doctrine of Christ verified, as Saint Paul saith, 
2. Cor. 4.3  If our Gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost: For no man can come unto me (saith Christ) except the Father which have sent me draw him. 
john 6.44.  
1. Cor. 3.4, 6  Yea, Paul may plant, and Apollo may water, but God must give the increase. For though the Sun be of most excellent brightness, yet none can see it, but those which have eyes: even so is it of the Scriptures, which as Saint Peter saith, They that are unlearned and unstable, 
2. Pet. 3.16.  do pervert to their own damnation. But shall we leave the Trial of the Scriptures (to which all the Fathers refer us) either because many pervert them; or, for that the devil alleged them; or, for that it is common to all Heretics to make challenge and boast of them? No: for all Heretics have been (by the Scriptures rightly understood) confuted and confounded: yea, even the devil himself, 
Mat. 3.7.  as Christ's own example teacheth us, was convicted by the same weapon, wherewith he thought to have vanquished our Saviour. But to make this plain by example, what Lawyer will offer to defend a bad cause, but he will bring Law for his purpose: and shall this debar or prejudice the other that pleads against him, That he shall not by Law convince the Errors, and Sophistries, or Quirks and Quiddities which are brought against him? Nay, rather any man of judgement, (having heard both parties) will readily distinguish, and say; The one makes a a show of Law, but the other hath Law indeed.  
And even thus it rests in those controversies, that are between us and the Papists, touching the Sense of the Scripture only: and not for those differences which the maintain by Tradition: 
Petr. ● Soto. adu. Brent. Canisi. in catechi. ca 5. Lindan in pan. li. 4. ca 100 Peresius par. 3. Rhe. Test. Gal. 2. sect. 4  which by the judgement of their own men, as I have already showed, are the greater number. And albeit the Rhemists would insinuate, That the controversies between us are, whether the judge, or the Evidence be of greater authority, yet that shift will not serve them: for all men of judgement know, that that is not the question between us. But the difference is, whether the judge, or the Law be of greater authority: where every wise man will grant, the Law to be supreme; whereunto the judge is to obey, and according to which to give his sentence: or else by the Law, his erroneous judgement is to be reversed. Neither is there other judicial authority in the Church, than in the common wealth: which is to determine controversies according to the Law, and the true meaning thereof. And if there be question of the Sense of the Law, The Lawmakers mind is to be discussed by his words, and the circumstances and occasions of making the Law. And even so the meaning of the Scripture is to be taken only out of the Scripture, as Clemens saith, 
●i●. 37. ca ●elatum.  You ought not to seek a strange and foreign sense without the Scriptures, that you may confirm it by any means by the Scriptures: But sense of truth you must take out of the Scriptures themselves.  
Saint Augustine, 
* Confess. Aug. praef. ad lecto.  whose doctrine yourselves do acknowledge, to be grounded on the laws, the manners, the judgements of all the Catholic Church; whom you call, a witness of the sincere truth and Catholic Religion, such a witness as no exception can be made against: who assureth you as you say, not only of his own, but also of the common, the constant faith and confession of the ancient Fathers and the Apostolic Church: This Augustine hath written four books of Christian doctrine, wherein he purposely entreateth how men should understand the Scripture, and expound it. The sum of all his Treatise doth aim at this mark, That 
a Aug. de doct. Christ. li. 1. ca 2.  the meaning of the Scripture must be learned out of the Scripture by the consideration of things and words in it: That 
b Ca 35.  the end whereto, 
c Ca 37.  the matter whereof it is all written, be marked in general: 
d Ca 35. & 40.  and all be understood according to that end and matter: 
e Li. 2. ca 8  that all be read over and over: 
f Ca 9  and those things chief noted, which are set down plainly, both precepts of life and rules of belief, because that all things which concern belief and life, are plainly written in it: That obscure and dark speeches be lightened and opened by the plain and manifest: that to remove the doubt of uncertain sentences, the clear & certain be followed: that 
g Ca 11.  recourse be had unto the Greek and Hebrew copies, to clear out of the fountains if the translation be muddy: that 
h Li. 3. ca 2 & 3.  doubtful places be expounded by the rule of faith which we are taught out of the plainer places of the Scripture: that 
i Ca 1.  all the circumstances of the text be weighed, what goeth before, what cometh after, the manner how, 
k Ca 10.  the cause why, 
l Ca 17.  the men to whom, 
m Ca 18.  the time when every thing is said: to be short, that 
n Ca 27.  we seek to know still the will & meaning of the Author, by whom the holy Ghost hath spoken: if we find it not, yet give such a sense, as agreeth with the right faith, approved by some oath place of scripture: 
o C. 18.  If a sense be given, the uncertainty whereof cannot be discussed, by certain & sure testimonies of scripture; it might be proved by reason, but this custom is dangerous; the safer way far is to walk by the scripture, the which (being shadowed with dark and borrowed words) when we mind to search, let either that come out of it, which hath no doubt & controversy; or if it have doubt, let it be determined by the same scripture, through witnesses to be found & used thence wheresoever: that so (to conclude) 
p Li. 4. ca 3  all places of the scriptures, be expounded by the Scriptures, the which are canonical, as being the Canon, that is to say, the rule of godliness & faith. All which rules we confidently embrace. And we constantly affirm, that neither he, nor any other ancient Father, did ever attribute the expounding of the Scripture (for the true sense thereof) to any Pope or bishop whatsoever. And although D. Stapl. except against these Rules of S. Austin, (which is common to all Papists by special privilege, when the Fathers make against them) as I have already partly proved; and shall appear to any that for a clearer manifestation thereof, will take a view of their Index expurgator.) yet doth S. Austin justify himself, 
De doctr. Christia. li: 1 a Prolo.  saying, If they who know these precepts, cannot see the things which are obscure & dark in the scriptures of God, the fault is in themselves not in the precepts: as if I should point with my finger at a star, which they would gladly see; and their eyesight were so weak, that although they could see my finger, yet could they not see the star, at which I point: Let them (saith he) cease to blame me, and let them pray to God that he will give them eyesight. And to the end I may give some proof of every thing I affirm, and to give a taste of the vile practice of the Papists: It shall not be amiss to set down their own words, namely the judgement of the University of Douai, approved by the Censors of the Council of Trent, concerning the book of Bertram, according to the Decree of the Council; the Title,  liber Bertram, etc. How the book of Bertram, 
Index expurg. 8. pag. ●1.  Priest, of the Body and Blood of our Lord, being amended, may been tolerated.  
Although we make no great account of this book, & therefore we would not greatly care, if either it were no where extant, or utterly lost: yet seeing it hath been already oftentimes reprinted, & hath been read of most men, and being prohibited by name, hath been made known to all men: seeing also the heretics do know of the prohibition thereof, by divers Catalogues: and that he was a Catholic Priest, and a Monk of the Abbey of Corbey, and was well-beloved and reverenced not so much of Carolus Magnus as of Carolus calvus, and doth help the story of that age: And seeing that in other ancient Catholic writers, we bear very many errors, and extenuate them, excuse them, and very often times by devising some pretty shift we deny them, 
Excogitato Commento.  and do feign some commodious sense unto them, when they are opposed against us in disputation or in conflicts with the adversaries: we do not see, why Bertram doth not deserve the same equity and diligent Recognition; lest the Heretics should jangle against us, that we burn up and prohibit Antiquity which maketh for them: and therefore it is no marvel that so few things seem to make for them, when we Catholics do so unreverently hiss out, and destroy antiquity, which but in show dissenteth from us. Moreover we fear lest this book, not only by Heretics, but also by unruly Catholics (by means of the prohibition thereof) may be read more greedily, alleged more odiously, and do more hurt being inhibited, than if it were permitted.  
And upon these considerations they take order, and show how this book at the next printing, shall be falsified by adding, putting out, changing of the Words and Sentences, and by perverting the whole scope and meaning of the Author.  
The last part of the objection is, that there must be some Tribunal on earth, to judge which is truth: And in this Question, they reel sometime to the Church, and sometime to the Pope, who they will have to be judge of truth; and that the Church, which sometime they entitle to the Pope, and sometime to General Counsels, are to be judge of the Scriptures. To this I answer, That absolute judge of truth can no man be; for God is truth, & of God I trust no man may be judge. The Son of God saith of himself, 
john 14. 1. john 5.  I am truth; and S. john testifieth, The spirit is truth. Therefore ye can be no judges of truth, unless you will be judges of God. And, the Father hath committed all judgement to the Son; and, my judgement, 
john 5. & 8.  saith Christ, is Just. Christ saith, My sheep, hear my voice, They be no judges of his voice, which is the Scriptures. A judge of the Law, is no observer of the Law, as S. james insinuateth: & since the whole Church is bound to obey the Law of God, 
jam. ca 4.  they be no judges of the law. S. Austin saith, It is inferior to us, 
Aug. in Psa. Idem de vera religio. ca 31.  whatsoever we be judges of. And again, The eternal Law of God, therefore, it is lawful for clean hearts to know; it is not lawful for them to judge. 
Idem confess li. 13. ca 23.  And again, We must not judge of so high authority, neither of the book which is thine, because we submit our understanding to it. 
Contr Crescon. li. 2, c. 31  And lastly, To the Canons of the scripture pertain certain books of the Prophets and Apostles, the which in any case we may not dare to judge. And this is the reason, There may be no judge of Truth, where no danger of Error is. And S. Austin saith, 
Idem epist. 19 ad Hier.  It is wickedness to make a doubt (speaking of the scriptures) whether there be any error in them or not. Therefore there may be no judges of them, but the whole Church must be subject to them, & with all humility believe them. And yet will the Papists assume unto themselves, to be judges of the scriptures; & appoint which shall be Canonical, & which shallbe Apocrypha? A judge we grant must have two things, before he be competent, namely, skill to discern, that he miss not the truth; & power to command, that his judgement may take place. Now if he want either of these, he is no fit judge. And that the Pope hath neither of these, thus I prove. For the first I have proved he may err, & therefore no man is bound to his judgement further than it is agreeable to the truth. And to add one proof more, the Council of Basil saith, This privilege, 
Conc. Basil. epist. Syno. 8  not to err, hath not been granted by a common, or perpetual law to any: not to the Angels, for many of them fell: not to our first parents, for they were deceived: not unto the chief Bishops, for many of them are read to have fallen into error and Heresy. And as it is absurd to refer the judgement to one man: so is it also to entitle the church of Rome to be The Catholic Church; since their chief Schoolmen and lights of the Papists, 
Petr. a Soto. contr. confess. Wittenburg. ca de Concil. Alfons. à Castro adver. Haer. li. 1. c. 8. Conf. Petric. cap. 24. & contr. Brent. li. 2. Disput. adu. Luther. tom. 6. deauthoritat. & potest. vniuers. eccles. ca 5. Ibid. ca 1.  Sotus, Alfonsus, Hosius and Verratus, do witness, that any particular Church may err. But that the Church of Rome is a particular Church the same Verratus affirmeth, nor can the rest dame it.  
And as he may err, so hath he no power to command princes or others; but only to propose the commandments of God unto them, as every Bishop must and may by virtue of his vocation. Further authority by violence to compel, or by corporal and external means to punish, no Prelate nor Pope hath by the Law of GOD: since that belongeth to the Sword, which the Prince, and not the Pope beareth, 
Rom. 13. 1. Pet. 2.  as Saint Paul witnesseth, and also Peter: from whose right the Pope makes claim to this superiority. But me thinks I still hear them object, that all this while we appoint not who shall be judges, or at least, Discerners of Truth: And to that we answer, Let him that maketh the claim undertake the proof; for we find no place nor person to whom the Son of God hath referred us, for the right understanding of his will, but only to himself and the Scriptures. And that you may know this is not our private opinion, (a slander which you often object) learn what Optatus & S. Aug. hath set down in this case. Christ (saith Optat.) hath dealt with us as an earthly father is wont with his children, 
Lib. 5. coni. Permenia. Donat.  who fearing lest they should fall out after his decease, doth set down his Will in writing under witnesses; & if there arise debate among the brethren; they go to the testament. He, whose word must end our controversy is Christ: let his Will be sought in his Testament. Which reason of Optatus, S. Aug. urging against the Donatists, as he doth often; We are brethren (saith he to them) why do we strive? 
Aug. in Psal. 21. exposi. 2  Our Father died not intestate: he made a Testament, and so died. Men do strive about the goods of the dead, till the Testament be brought forth: when that is brought, they yield to have it opened and read: The judge doth hearken, the Councillors be silent; the Crier bids peace; all the people is attentive, that the words of the dead may be read and heard. He lieth void of life and feeling in his grave, and his words prevail: Christ doth sit in heaven; & is his Testament gainsaid? Open it; let us read, we are brethren: why do we strive? let our minds be pacified: Our Father hath not left us without a Testament. He that made the Testament is living for ever. He doth hear our words, he doth know his own word. Let us read: why do we strive? Were not this a silly speech of S. Austin, if Traditions were to be received with equal Reverence to the Scriptures? or that Counsels or Popes had such absolute authority? But it seems, S. Austin ascribed more to this Testament, than to any Pope or Council whatsoever. And to conclude this point: Optatus in the Question of the Catholics with the Donatists, whether one should be twice baptized: 
Li. 5. contr. ●ermen. Do●at.  You (saith he) say it is lawful: We say it it not lawful. Between your (it is lawful) and our (it is not lawful) the people's souls do doubt and waver. Let none believe you nor us, we are all contentious men. judges must be sought for: if Christians, they cannot be given of both sides, for truth is hindered by affections. A judge without must be sought for. If a Panime: he cannot know the Christian mysteries. If a jew: he is an enemy to Christian baptism. No judgement therefore of this matter can be found in earth: a judge in Heaven must be sought for. But why knock we at heaven, when here we have the Testament of Christ in the Gospel. Belike Optatus and S. Austin were not so wise in those days, as our jesuits and Papists are now: for they could easily have put doubts and scruples, touching the sense of the Scriptures, and could skilfully have enforced such objections as these, and in all doubts could easily have assigned their Pope as an Absolute judge. But it is evident by the judgement of these two Reverend Fathers, that we can have no fit judge on earth: 
joh. 12.  God must therefore judge us by his word; To which all the Fathers do submit themselves and their writings, as is before proved and alleged. Yea, we are warranted by the Prophet Osea, to judge our Mother (as it is in the vulgar Translation) and to contend with her that she is not the spouse of Christ: 
Hos. 2.  nor he her husband: that she may take away her fornications and adulteries etc. as it is more at large in the Text. Thus have you seen briefly, A view of the weakness of the Grounds whereon the Papists build their Religion: which in a word is, The Pope's good pleasure. And notwithstanding I have in this small Tract laid down our just Exceptions, both against Fathers and Counsels: yet would I have none rashly to censure, that we reject all the Fathers and Counsels: for we embrace them, as wholesome means, by which great light hath been brought to the Church of God, both in the Exposition of the Scriptures, and the abolishing and confuting of Heresies. But we reject with great reason the partiality that is now used in calling of Counsels: which must now only be done by the Pope: & of which he only must be Precedent and judge: contrary to the order of the first 4. General Counsels, which Gregory professeth to receive as the 4. holy Gospels: Neither is any thing of force that is now decreed in Council, unless it be confirmed by the Pope: though in the first 4. Counsels the Pope was neither Precedent by himself nor his Legates: neither needed they his confirmation Besides, the whole order of Counsels are now inverted by the Popes, contrary both to the institution of the Apostles in the first Council holden by them, 
●ct. 15.22, ●3.  and to all antiquity. For now none must have determining voices but the Bishops: and they must swear, and take this oath before they sit in Council: the form whereof thus followeth. 
secret. li. 2. ●r. 24. ca 4.  I (R.N.) will be faithful from henceforth to S. Peter, and to the holy Church of Rome, and to my lord (Boniface the Pope) & to his successors, chosen Canonically, and I will be an helper to defend, against all the world, the Popedom, or papal superiority, and the rules of the holy Fathers: So God me help and the holy Gospel. According to that detestable clause annexed to the Decrees of reformation in the Council of Trent, 
Ses. 7. in prooe. & Se● 25. de. Reformat. ca vlt.  salva semper in omnibus authoritate sedis Apostolicae; Provided always, that the Pope's authority be safe, and no way prejudiced. So that still he will always have a non obstante, notwithstanding any law to the contrary, to break through all laws, to do what he list. But to conclude, we acknowledge according to the Scriptures, That there are two sorts of judgements in the Church of God: The one private, and the other public: private, to all the faithful and spiritual, 
1, Cor. 2.15 & 10.15. joh. 4.1.  as God calleth them, who are willed to judge of that which is taught, and to try the Spirits whether they be of God. Public, to the asssmbly of the Pastors and Elders: 
Act. 15.6. 1. Cor. 14.  for of that which Prophets teach, let Prophets judge: And the spirits of the Prophets, are subject to the Prophets. In all which the Scripture is the rule, by which the Church must be directed: neither hath she other authority, than the ministry of giving judgement: For the Sovereignty of judgement must rest on God's word. 
Mat. 22.10 jam. 4.12.  For Christ is our only Doctor & Lawgiver. The Lord open your eyes, that you may see the Truth, and be thankful to God.  
FINIS.   

An Abstract of the chief Points of this book.  
FIrst, That all the Fathers do with general consent attribute all sufficiency to the Scriptures: making them the Rule of faith, and the absolute means to determine all doubts and controversies; preferring them before the Church, and all other writings of men whatsoever: and further, that the Church is no otherwise to be showed or known, but by the Canonical Scriptures: and that themselves, and their opinions, without the Scriptures, are not to be believed, but rejected. See the Preface: and pag. 15. 16. 17. 18. 19 45. 46. 47. 52.  
2 That the Scriptures are to be expounded by the Scriptures: and that we are not tied for the exposition thereof to any Father, Council, or Pope. And that no Papist can show the consent of the Fathers, that the scriptures are to be expounded by any Father, Council, or Pope. See pag. 88 89. 90. 91.  
3 That the Fathers agree with us, taking the greater part, in approving those Scriptures, which the Protestants do, to be Canonical, and in rejecting those which we do for Apocrypha. See pag. 4. 5.  
4 That the Fathers take the word Tradition sometimes for the Scriptures; sometimes for the Customs and Ceremonies of the Church: and the Papists, which urge them for matter of doctrine unwritten, and to be of equal authority with the Scriptures, do deprave the Fathers, making their doctrines contrary one to another, yea, contrary to themselves. See the Preface.  
5 That chief Papists, and pillars of Popery, have confessed, that many and most of the doctrines wherein they vary from us, are grounded upon Traditions. And that it is extreme madness to think, that the whole and entire body of evangelical doctrine is to be fetched out of the Apostolic writings, and out of that little Book of the New Testament. In which doctrine, they go wholly against the stream of the Fathers, and also discover their abusing of the simplicity of their followers, when they make them believe the greatest difference between them and us, is, touching the sense of the Scriptures: whereas by this their confession, this consequent necessarily followeth; That where there is no Text, there needs no Interpreter. See the Preface.  
6 That the Papists have uttered open blasphemy, in their books against the Scriptures, in taxing them of insufficiency, in terming them a Nose of wax, Inky divinity, dumb judges, no better than Aesop's Fables, without the authority of the Church: That they take their authority from the Church; That sometimes they are to be expounded one way, sometimes another; That the Scriptures must follow the Church, and not the Church the Scriptures: preferring the authority of the Church above and against the Scriptures. All which blasphemies are refuted, not only by the direct texts of Scripture, but by the general consent of the Fathers. See the Preface.  
7 That the Papists urge the credit of the Fathers, for the receiving of Traditions: and though there be many Traditions, which by the Father's testimony have the same authority to prove them to be Apostolic, that the others have: Yet the Papists receive the one, and reject the other. See pag. 12. 13.  
8 That the Fathers have held divers errors: upon which it necessarily followeth: that if they might err in one thing, they might err in another: And that their judgements are often rejected by the Papists, and therefore may with as great reason be rejected by us: and consequently are no perfit Rule to build our Religion on: which even the Fathers themselves confess. See pag. 20. 21. 22 23. 16. 17.  
9 That there be many Counterfeit, that have usurped the names of ancient Fathers: whereby it is hard to discern when a true Father, and when a false speaks. And though some of these Fathers be censured for counterfeits, even by the learned Papists themselves, and their Universities: yet do they allege them against us in many of their books, (especially in the Rheims Testament) to give countenance to Popish errors. See pag. 23. 24. 25. 26. 27. 28. 29. 30. 31. 32. 33.  
10 That the consent of the Fathers cannot be showed, (nay, scarce any ancient Father) that all controversies are to be determined by the Pope: or, that he cannot err: or, that he must summon Counsels: or, that they are of no authority, unless they be confirmed by the Pope. And yet are these doctrines held Catholic by the Papists, and reputed the chief pillars of Popery. See pag. 75.  
11 That all those places of Scripture, which are brought by the Papists, either to prove the Pope's prerogative; or, the authority of the Church; or, that the Church cannot err, are by the Fathers (writing purposely upon the same places) expounded according to the Protestants sense given; and contrary to the sense which the Papists give. So far are the Papists from proving the general consent of the Fathers, in expounding these Scriptures, which they commonly object against us, (as, Thou art Peter, and upon this Rock will I build my Church: and, the gates of hell shall not prevail against it: Or, the promises of the holy Ghost to be sent to the Church, to lead it into all truth: Or, To thee will I give the keys of the kingdom of Heaven: Or, The Church is the pillar and ground of Truth: Or, Tell the Church: Or, if he hear not the Church, let him be to thee as an heathen, or as a Publican: Or, whatsoever thou bindest in earth, shall be bound in heaven: Or, any other place of Scripture to the said purposes) to be on their side; as namely, that those Texts should be meant of the Pope, General Council, or the Church of Rome. See pag. 66. 67. 68 69. 70.  
12 That General Counsels have erred, have been contrary one to another, have been rejected by the Papists themselves; and so are no sure Rule to build our faith on. See pag. 48. 49. 50. 51. 52. 53. 54. 55.  
13 That the Popes, whom they would have to be supreme judges in all Controversies, have erred judicially; have been heretics (as maintaining the heresy of the Monothelites; subscribing to the Arrian heresy; to the Nestorian heresy) have offered sacrifice to idols, have been Necromancers, and Conjurers. See pag. 58. 59 60. 61. 62.  
14 That the Pope can be no competent judge: and whereunto the Fathers refer us. See pag. 93, etc.   

LEt me request thee, Courteous reader, to take no●ice, that the Texts of Scripture, and testimonies of the Fathers (cited by me in this Treatise) should all have been set down in a different letter, from the rest of the matter wherewith they are ranked; accordingly as you see performed in the Preface, and in the later half of the book. Now, by means of my absence, and want of direction given, in this point, it could not be discerned by the Printer, how far the words of the Text and Testimonies (so to be distinguished) might reach. And therefore I cannot but free him from that blame; as likewise (2. or 3. literal escapes only excepted) from imputation of any the faults hereunder specified: some of them being committed, in my Copy; and the rest, through difficulty and darkness of the hand, might easily be mistaken.  

In the Text.  
Page 5. line 7. for, alured: read allowed. pag. 8. l. 17. Trations, Traditions. p. 11, l. 19 Priests: proof. p. 29. l. ●6. addeth: allegeth. p. 29. l. 17. tehimony: testimony p. 31. l. 2. for, 25: 15. p. 33. l. 7. fault: fable. p. 40. l. 9 choice: chief. p. 72. l. 8. cannot: which cannot. p. 89. l. 1. sense: the sense.   

In the Margin.  
Pag. 7. for, De Bapt. c. 6. li. 1. read, De Bapt. cont. Don. li. 3. pag. 7. prat. read pont. pag. 8. 1. Thes. 2. Thes. pag. 12. 1. Pet. 2.18. 1. Pet. 1.18. pag. 20. Aug. in Fruit. Aug. in Enar. pag. 14. de fulta: de falsa. pag. 35. li. 1. cap. 22. li 1. cap 23. pag. 36. Tim. Tit. pag. 52. Epist. 16, 7. Epist. 167. pag. 59 (against Pope Celestine) C. laudab. de conuers. Infidel, is omitted.