THE WORLD possessed with Devils, containing three Dialogues.  

1. Of the Devil let lose.  
2. Of Black Devils.  
3. Of White Devils.   
And of the coming of jesus Christ to judgement, a very necessary and comfortable discourse for these miserable and dangerous days.  Luke. xxi. Watch ye therefore at all times and pray, that ye may be worthy to escape all these things that shall come: And that ye may stand before the Son of man.  

¶ Imprinted at London, for John Perin, and are t● be sold in Paul's Churchyard a● the Sign of the Angel. 1583.   

To the Reader.  
I Have entitled this Book (the world possessed with devils) for two causes. The one, because I show there, how the Devil ruleth the world, he guideth & governeth worldly and carnal men as if they were possessed with Devils, and given over by Gods just judgement: the other, because that in holy Scripture, the world is many times taken, for such as are not lead by the Spirit of God, but serve the devil as their prince and God, in stead of their true God, and acknowledge him for their Creator, Father and Saviour.   

¶ The title and some of the first Dialogue.  
This Dialogue is called the Devil let lose, both for the reason before mentioned, and also because of fit matter serving to the same purpose.  
first, there is talk of the great covetousness that now reigneth in the world, and specially of the covetousness of old men: afterward of the old age and dotage of the world, and the division of the ages of the same, which is set forth in the last book, fathered upon Esdras in the apocrypha, & conference of the contents of that book with that which Hesiodus hath written touching that matter.  
Of the decay of virtue, and increase of vice, & the Prophets of jesus Christ & S. Paul thereupon, touching the latter days.  
Of the frantic and decayed world, which can not abide to be melted again, and restored to the first estate.  
Of the world wholly possessed with the Devil.  
Of the Devil let lose in the apocalypse, and of the red Dragon.  
Of the Parable and similitude of the wicked spirit, wandering in the deserts.  
Of the judgement of God upon the jews, and of the example thereby given to Christians.  
Of the coming of jesus Christ, of Mahomet, and of the Pope.  
The true Physic for the diseased, frantic and possessed world.  
The faults of worldly Physicians, and of their drags: and the cause why they can not cast out devils, nor appease the winds and tempest, that bluster on the Sea of this world.  
Of the true mean to appease them, and to drive the Devil out of the world, and the power of the Gospel.  
Of the state of the world, and namely of the course of Kings and Princes.  
Of the complaints of the Prophets for the wickedness, unrightousnesse, and theft that is amongst men.  
Of the Anatomy that the Prophets have made of man and of the world.  
Of the greatest crime and danger that is now in the world, and how dangerous a thing it is to be a good man.   

¶ The first Dialogue of the world possessed with devils called, the devil let Lose.  Toby. Theophrast. Jerome. Eustace. 
WHen we last commoned together Theophrastus, touching the state of this present world, thou tookest occasion to talk of the age of the same. And because thou waste then interrupted, I would thou wouldst now go forward with that, that thou haste to say therein.  Theo. 
We spoke before of the great covetousness that reigneth now a days among men. 
Commentaries of Origen upon job.  There are certain commentaries upon the book of job, which some say are origen's, notwithstanding that the style of the same is nothing like origen's style. And therefore, learned men which are able to judge of such things, take not Origen to be the author thereof. But whosoever be author, he bringeth in certain reasons, by which he doth show the cause of that great covetousness of which we spoke.  Toby. 
What saith he?  Theo. 
He first saith: 
The cause of the great covetousness, which now reigneth.  that this world draweth to an end. And therefore may be likened to a man that seeketh toward his end as fast as he can: and this is the cause that he giveth his whole mind and study to dead things: that is to say, to earthly things, which are as it were dead in comparison of heavenly things. For, as they neither can deliver men from corporal or spiritual death: So can they not follow them after this death, but die with them.  Toby. 
Hereby than thou meanest, that the more that men draw to the yearthward, and the nearer they are to their grave, the more desirous are they of earthly riches, which is but yearth as they are. And so the less they have of it, the more they desire it, how sayest thou Jerome.  Jerome. 
Thou puttest me in remembrance of that that Cicero saith (touching this matter) of old men. 
Covetousness in age.   Toby. 
Why, what saith he.  jerom. 
He compareth them to a warfaring man, 
Cice. de senect.  which hath a journey to go.  Toby. 
The comparison is very proper. 
The voyage of man's life.  For, all this life is nothing but a voyage, which we have to go whilst we live.  jerom. 
Now, thou knowest that they, which have a journey to go, make first provision of all such things, as they must carry with them, and such things as are necessary for them, whether it be victuals or money.  Toby. 
If they did not so, they might seem to want discretion.  jerom. 
But if they be wise and discrete, they will burden themselves with no more than they needs must, but will make their preparation and provision, according to the journey and way that they have to go.  Toby. 
It is certain, that they which have a hundredth or two hundredth miles to go, have need of greater provision, than they which have but five or six miles.  jerom. 
What wouldst thou say then, if a man which hath but a mile or two to go, would be more careful for his charge, make greater preparation for his voyage, then if he had five or six C. miles to go.  Toby. 
I would take him to be a very fond and undiscreet man: for what needeth he to trouble himself more, then that the necessity of his voyage requireth.  jerom. 
Yet the most part of old men do so. 
Care ●oges of a voyage▪ Cice. de senect.  For, the elder that men wax, the more covetous and niggishe they are.  Toby. 
Then the less time they have to live, the more fear they have to want.  jerom. 
Therefore Cicero saith, that these old dotards that are so near and covetous, and are so afraid to want, the less way they have to go on their voyage, the more care they have for charges, and make the greater provision.  Toby. 
In good sooth that is great folly and madness.  jerom. 
Therefore it is not said without good reason, that where as all other vices wax old as men do, covetousness waxeth young again in age.  Toby. 
Then to our former talk, we may well say the like of the world, and of his age, even as Theophrastus did put us in mind: and therefore go forward Theophrastus, with that that thou hast further to say, as touching this matter.  Theo. 
The Author of those commentaries upon job, which I even now alleged useth a comparison, touching the richesses that men gather in their age, not unmeet for our matter.  Toby. 
Whereto doth he liken them.  Theo. 
To hidden stars. 
The use of richesse in age.  For, as stars serve to no use when they are hidden, but when they show light unto men: so riches being hidden serveth to no use, whether they keep them locked in their treasures, without the use thereof, or else leave their riches to the wide world, when they themselves are hidden and laid up in their graves.  Toby. 
Hereby than thou meanest to prove, that the greedy and insasiable desire of riches: which now adays so ragyngly reigneth among men, is a sign and witness of the old age & dotage of the world, whereby we may judge that the end thereof draweth nigh.  Theo. 
So it is. 
The fourth book of Esdras. Chap. 5.  Furthermore although the fourth book of Esdras be holden for apocrypha, yet are there many good sentences contained therein, which well agree with the matter whereof we talk.  Toby. 
I would feign hear them.  Theo. 
He saith thus: Ask the womb of a woman and say unto her: why must thou have time before thou bringest forth? Require her to bring forth ten at once. And I say, surely she can not, but by distance of tynie. Then said he unto me: so have I divided the number of the earth by times, when seed is sown upon it. For, as a young child begetteth not that, that belongeth to the aged, so have I ordained the time which I have created. I asked again and said: seeing thou hast now showed me the way, I will proceed to speak before thee: For our mother whom thou hast told me, is young, draweth she near unto age? he answered me and said: ask a woman that travaileth, and she will tell thee. Say unto her: Wherefore are not they whom thou hast now brought forth, are those that were before thee, 
The stature of a man diminished.  but less of stature? And she shall answer thee, some were borne in the flower of youth, others were borne in the time of age, when the womb failed. Consider now thyself, how that ye are less of stature, than those that were before you. And so are they that come after you, less than ye, as the Creatures which now begin to be old, and have passed over the strength of youth.  Toby. 
Me thinks these words tend to show, that as the woman and the woman's womb waxeth old, so waxeth the yearth old, which is the mother of us all, and likewise all the world, with all things therein contained.  Theo. 
We see the experience thereof daily. But mark what the same author saith further of this matter. The world (saith he) hath lost his youth, and the times begin to wax old. 
4. Esder. 14. The division of the ages of the world.  For the world is divided into xii. parts, and x. parts of it are gone already, and half of the tenth part. And there remaineth that, which is after the half of the tenth part. Therefore set thine house in order, and reform thy people, and comfort such of them as be in trouble, and now renounce the corruption. Let go from thee mortal thoughts, cast away from thee the burdens of men, and put of now thy weak nature, and set aside thy most grievous thoughts, and haste thee to departed from these times. For greater evils then those which thou hast seen now, shall they commit. For, the weaker that the world is by reason of age, the more shall the evils be increased upon them that dwell therein. 
The old age of the miserable world.  For, the truth is fled far away, and lies at hand. And after he saith: thus the world is set in darkness, and they that dwell therein are without light. For, thy law is burnt, therefore no man knoweth the things that are done of thee, or the works that shallbe doen.  Toby. 
These words signify not only that the older the world waxeth, 
The decrease of virtue and increase of vice.  the more the stature and age of man deminisheth, and the natural strength weakeneth: but also that all virtues decay in him, and all vices increase.  Theo. 
If virtue fail, necessarily vice which is the contrary must reign, sith vice is want of virtue, as sickness is want of health, so that the more that health decreaseth, 
A prophecy of jesus Christ and S. Paul touching the last days.  the more sickness increaseth. And therefore our saviour Christ, speaking of those last days, and of this age of the world, said not without cause. Thinkest thou that when the son of man shall come he shall find any faith or uprightness on the yearth. 
Matth. 14.  For, 
Luke. 21.  because that the wickedness shall abound, 
1. Tim. 4.  all charity shallbe cold. 
2. Timo. 4.  Hear also what S. Paul writeth: Now the spirit speaketh evidently, that in the latter times, some shall depart from the faith, and shall give heed unto spirits of error, and doctrines of devils, which speak lies through hypocrisy, & have their consciences burned with an hot iron. And again: This know also that in the last days shall come perilous times. For, men shallbe lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, cursed speakers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy without natural affection, truce breakers, false accusers, intemperate, fierce, despising of them which are good, traitors, heady high minded, lovers of pleasure, more than lovers of God, having the show of godliness, but have denied the power thereof.  Toby. 
S. Paul hath just occasion to call those days perilous, in which such men shall live, and without doubt we even now are come to that line. For now adays we see few other but such as S. Paul hath described unto us, after the manner that thou hast rehearsed.  Theo. 
Therefore there are few, which may be compared to our ancient fathers in any thing at all. For, as we have already said, even as the force of virtue decreaseth day by day, in this weakness and old age of nature, so contrary vice, love of pleasure, impatience, unstableness, unfaitfulnesse, ignorance and folly increase.  Toby. 
When I call to remembrance what Jerome hath heretofore spoken, concerning the difference of ages, and the decay thereof, I find that it well agreeth with all that thou haste now spoken. So that if none complained, but only the Prophets and Apostles, and other the true servants of God, of the corruption and disorder, which at all times hath been in the world, and the impairing thereof, which hath always increased, I would less marvel. But we may well perceive that the wickedness of men hath been of long time marvelous, and that it hath from time to time so wonderfully increased, that even the Gentiles themselves (who had not the true knowledge of God, nor perfect knowledge of virtue & vice,) have made most grievous complaints thereof, as Jerome hath often recited unto us.  jerom. 
I have recited unto you, the description that Ovid hath made of the 4, age but I have not yet showed after what manner Hesiodus describeth it, out of whom as well Ovid as other Poets, have gathered their writings. For as I have before told Hesiodus is one of the most ancient Greek Poets that we have. And because that which he writeth of this matter, agreeth very well with many of the points which Theophrastus hath alleged, but chief out of the books of apocrypha, which bear the name of Esdras, I will recite that which he writeth of the 4. ages, speaking first of the golden age, thus much in effect.  
We must believe that Gods and men,  
together first were framed, 
Hsiod. ope. & dies. Lib▪ 1.   
When golden age overspread the yearth,  
and Saturn ruled above.  
Men lived like Gods and void of care,  
no labours toil their land,  
Ne tedious age ne sickness grief,  
did once their minds remove.  
From spotless life from pleasant cheer,  
and Death was but a sleep,  
And fertillyearth her pleasant fruits,  
did yield withouten toil:  
Their goods were common minds were on  
no hatred here could creep,  
O happy age whose merry minds,  
were placed on such a soil.  
Now hear what juvenal saith touching this Golden age: 
Juvenal. sat. 13.  In time past poor men lived in field without fraud or deceit. And anon after he saith.  
They thought it shame and worthy death  
if youth by age had passed,  
Not showing honour unto them,  
and would the bearded man:  
Should reverenced be of youth,  
though they exceed in corn and Mast  
Such honour bear they unto age,  
such reverence beards had then.  Toby. 
Juvenal toucheth among other points one, wherein there is great over sight at this day. For, youth is now so ill mannered, so proud, so stout, so overwening so shameless and so unbridled, that in stead of honouring their elders, they despise them which is worthy of great blame.  jerom. 
They are blame worthy in deed, for they pervert both the order of God and nature, for God hath given express commandment to honour age, and to reverence the hoary heard and grey bearded: And though GOD had not so commanded, 
Law to honour elder● Leuit. 1●.  nature ought herein to be a Schoolemistres unto us, except we will willingly resist her as Monsters.  Toby. 
We may easily think this to be true, for that the Gentiles themselves were constrained to acknowledge it a duty. And they learned not by the holy scripture and laws of God, 
The law 〈◊〉 nature.  to honour their elders, for that it was not given and revealed to them as to the children of God: but have learned it by law of nature, which is common Schoolmasters to all.  jerom. 
This Schoolmasters nature, of whom thou speakest, hath so imprinted this in the hearts of all men, that even they which will neither hear nor obey it, are nevertheless, constrained to confess it, both to be right honest and of duty as the Ambassadors of the Lacedæmonians did well declare to the Athenians. 
A taunt of the Lacedæmonians to the Athenians.  For on a time there were certain common Plays at Athens with Scaffolds made, whereupon these Ambassadors were placed very honourably, there was a poor old man an Athenian, which gatt up as the rest did, but all the seats were taken up, and because he could find no seat, but was feign to stand, all the people laughed him to scorn, saving the Lacedaemonian Ambassadors, which rise from their seats to give him place: The Athenians seeing this courtesy, liked it well and gave them great praise. Whereby they showed that they knew what was honestand praise worthy: but none of them desired to have this praise. Therefore the Ambassadors said: The Athenians can judge both of courtesy and honesty, but they use it not.  Toby. 
Then are they of the number of those, that know much good manner, but use none: and surely these Ambassadors both shamed and taunted them as they deserved. 
The despising of fathers and mothers.  But to come to our matter, though young men despise their elders, we need not marvel if they care not for their elders, to whom they own duty because of their age, seeing there are so few, that honour and reverence their natural fathers and mothers as they ought, neither can away with them.  jerom. 
It is not at this day alone that Children have neglected their duty towards their Fathers and Mothers, but also the one against the other, and chiefly against God. And therefore Hesiodus speaking of the silver age, toucheth it somewhat to this effect.  
The children of the silver age, 
The silver age.   
did next succeed the gold,  
Unlike the first in wit and deed,  
and under Mother's wing:  
Were busied in their parent's works,  
tell they were waxen old,  
And simply lead a toiling life,  
and knew none other thing.  
And when they came to perfect age  
and fell to shift for food,  
Their life did waste, and pining care  
did fret their peevish breasts:  
And enemies sting between these fools  
'gan breed much hateful mood,  
And careless thinking on their goods  
despise their heavenly hests.  
He speaketh like a heathen of their religion which was divers according to the diversity of the Country, for they had divers Gods which they held as patrons, as our Papists held of their Saints. And because they had divers manners of Services and Ceremonies, and divers using thereof, as our Papists have in their religion. Hesiodus condemneth those which follow not the manner of Religion of their own Country. And then anon after he addeth the punishment which God laid upon them, agreeing to Ovid, which had written more at large of the flood, as far as he knew, following the holy Scriptures as other Poets did, 
Gene. 6. 7. 8.  which wrote before him, which is thus much in effect.  
When jove once saw that they despised  
to yield the Gods their due:  
In wrath with waves he drenched the earth,  
and formed it a new.  
And from thence he cometh to the brazen age, whereof he speaketh thus much.  
Next after came the Brazen world, 
The Brazen age.   
unlike the silver far.  
Men made of Okes of courage stout  
delighting much in war.  
No rest, no law, a stony world,  
with lofty looks and grim:  
No force could fear their fiery mood  
and large of bone and limb.  Toby. 
When Ovid speaketh of the four ages, (as far as I perceive by that, that thou hast rehearsed of his Metamorphosis, he maketh no mention of the decay of strength in man's body, but only of the decrease of virtue and increase of vice. But Hesiodus, writeth of both, and me thinketh he doth not much disagree from that which is written in the holy Scripture, touching of ancestors before the flood, & anon after. For even at that time the strength of man began to diminish and decay. Is it not true Theophrastus?  Theo. 
jacob beareth witness of that before Pharo: 
Gene. 4.7.  saying. The whole time of my Pilgrimage is an hundred and thirty years, 
Gene. 47.  fear and evil have the days of my life been, and I have not attained unto the years of the life of my fathers, in the days of their Pilgrimage. 
Psal. 90.  And David after him, saith of his time: The time of our life is threescore years and ten: and if they be of strength, fourscore years: yet their strength is but labour and sorrow, for it is cut of quickly, and we flee away.  Toby. 
Yet notwithstanding methinks jacob and David, were long before the time that is compared to the Iron age, whereof Jerome hath not yet told us the description that Hesiodus maketh.  jerom. 
If thou wilt hear it, thus much he saith in effect.  
But now the Iron age is come, 
The Iron age.   
with daily care and pain:  
With creasing strife, (so would the Gods)  
yet some release again.  
Of quiet life somewhiles they grant  
t'aswage the heavy grief:  
But doubtless when hoary hears once come  
they die without relief.  
The child unlike the father is,  
the gest fears trust less host:  
And friendly promise soon is broke  
hot strife doth rule the roast.  
Age is despised, and youth ashamed,  
to yield their parent's praise:  
They mind no goods, ne render food,  
to friends that were their stays.  
What should I speak of cruel rape,  
or Towns by force destroyed:  
No other may stand: ne right maintained,  
and goodness still avoid.  
And wicked worldinges make of them  
that mischief still invent:  
Thus void of duties knowledge all,  
to wickedness are bend.  Toby. 
These are goodly virtues in deed, this agreeth well with that, which Theophrastus spoke of before.  Theo. 
Hence come the troubles and confusion that now reigneth in the old age of the world, which is the cause of his great disease and dotage. Wherefore we have good cause to pray with David: 
Psal. 71.  saying. Cast me not of, Lord in time of age, forsake me not when my strength faileth.  Toby. 
I believe all that thou hast spoken: and shortly to tell thee mine advise, me thinks the world is new in his old dotage, and the older he waxeth, the more he raveth: 
The raging world like an old ape or bear.  he is like unto these old Apes or Bears, which the older they wax, the more mischievous they are. Wherefore, I am afraid lest his end be at hand. What thinkest thou Jerome.  jerom. 
It is to be feared: for it is dangerous when a man given to sickness falleth often sick: but when he falleth to raging and madness, it is a manifest sign of death. 
Pope Leo & Clement of the house of Medicis have given evil medicines to the world.  Doubtless the world is very sick seeing he hath been so long in the physicians hand: and great cause of despair of health is in him, for that the Physicians have given him over, and he now falleth to raging, which increaseth daily, so that it is to be feared lest he run wholly mad up and down streets and Countries, as Nabucadonozer did. For if the head be mad what shall become of the members.  Toby. 
What meanest thou by the worlds Physicians and his frantic head.  jerom. 
Knowest thou not, that Popes are commonly called Gods on earth.  Toby. 
Yes, but what of that.  jero. 
Knowest thou not that Pope Leo, 
Medicines in English, Physicians.  and Pope Clement the last of those names were of the house of Medicis.  Theo. 
Thereby thou wilt conclude, that the world was in the hands of the Physicians when these Popes governed.  jerom. 
I mean thereby, that it was a very evil sign, and in manner a foreshowing and prognostication of the things that we have spoken: but it was a great sign when Paul Defornese succeeded them, 
The world is frantic.  for that his name sounds much upon Fransie, unto which we say the world is fallen. But let us hear what Theophrastus will say to this matter.  Theo. 
When I would consider this world, I remember a comparison that the Prophet Esay useth, 
Esay. 30.  to show forth the state and overthrow of the wicked which were in his tyme. He showeth them that they shall be deceived in their vain hopes, and that their confidence in iniquity shall be like an old ruinous wall, which showeth to be whole, but shall suddenly fall to the ground, and overwhelm all those that are about it. 
The world in decay.  And when I consider this world, me thinks it is like an old ruinous building of which the said, mortar, and stones is so old, that they fall away by little and little, what shall we think then of such a building but sudden overthrow ear we beware.  jerom. 
Thou puttest me in remembrance of a melancholic man, 
Gal. de loc. affect.  that Galen maketh mention of. This man had heard the fable that the ancient Poets feigned of Atlas bearing the heavens on his shoulders, 
The fable of Atlas.  and being overcome with melancholic humour was sore afraid lest Atlas being wearied the heavy burden, 
De fac qui appar. in. lum.  should either let it fall, or throw it of on his shoulders, & so crush both him and all the world to pieces. Plutarch also maketh mention of an other, which was sore afraid lest the Moon should fall, and greatly pitied and lamented those Nations which were under the Moon: as the Etheopians, and those of the isle of Taprobana. He would also have feared lest the Sky should have fallen, if it had not been holden up by Atlas' Cullumms.  Toby. 
We use a common proverb to those that be fearful: what and the Sky fall, than we shall catch larks.  jorom. 
Aristottle saith: that the beginning of this proverb came, that some rude and ignorant elders believed that the heavens were sustained by Atlas, and not only Poets, but also some Physicians have affirmed it, natural Philosophers have affirmed the same.  Toby. 
I care not whence the proverb came, but I am sure if that should come to pass, we should catch more fools than larks, for there would be a great many catched in those nets. And I doubt not but all that heard this poor soul, had good sport at him. But I doubt much least men now adays are more diseased, 
Diversities 〈◊〉 folly.  and farther out of their wits, than those or such like Melancolike men as thou talkest of are: for they feared that which they need not, and we fear not that which we should fear. We see the world fall in decay, and yet think it should last for ever.  jerom. 
Thou hast prevented me of my saying: but to that I will add that which Horace saith touching this matter.  
Some kind of fools to fearful are, 
Horace ser. Lib. 2. sat. 3.   
and think each pleasant way,  
With fires, with rocks, with diches deep,  
beset and so their stay.  
another sort far different,  
no wiser than the first:  
Will headlong launch to dangers deep,  
not casting erst the worst:  
No flood, no fire, no rock, no briar,  
can stay their brainless wit,  
Cry father, mother, wife, or kin,  
beware the rock or pit.  
As much they hear as drunken Fuse  
which Ilion's part did take:  
And slept when Catie cried full oft,  
good mother now awake.  Toby. 
I perceive Horace speaketh of one sort of fools, which fear great danger where there is none, and with great trembling are afraid of their own shadow.  jerom. 
There is a proverb of those that fear their own shadow: but contrariwise there are other fools, that fear no danger, though they see it before their eyes or be warned of it. There is neither friend nor foe shall council them, or dissuade them: but they will headlong throw themselves into present mischief, and will not change their mind, though all the world had sworn nay.  Toby. 
But I do well understand what Horace meaneth, by talking of Fuse, Ilium, and Catien.  jerom. 
He telleth of a pleasant chance that happened in a Tragedy which was played, as we at this day do play stage Plays: wherein Fuse was one of the Players, & played the part of Ilium the daughter of King Priam, and Catien played the part of Polidore the brother of Ilium. Now in the Play Ilium should sleep, & Polidore should appear to her in a dream, and waken her and her mother Hecuba and cry, mother, sister. And because Fuse his part was to sleep, he victuailed himself with good siropps, and drank his skin full, and fell so fast a sleep, that they could not play: so Catien that played Polidor's part, with his crying mother and sister never so loud could not once waken Fuse out of his sleep. Yea Horace saith: that if there had been a thousands Catiens and had cried till their hearts had ached, they could not have wakened him, he slept so sound: which when the people saw, they all cried with one voice, mother, mother: and so all the Tragedy was turned to a laughter.  Toby. 
But to what purpose doth Horace allege this example.  jerom. 
Marry to this purpose: to tell of those that will run headlong into present danger, and though men admonish them never so much, and cry to them to dissuade them, they will no more hearken to father or mother, brother or sister, friend or foe, than a drunkard overladen with Wine, which can no more be wakened, than Catien could waken Fuse with all his crying. And thereby concludeth, that the adventurous fools of these days are like, which can not perceive in what danger they are, nor do more esteem the admonition and warning that is given them, then if they had not heard it, or were without sense. Wherefore it is much to be feared lest it happen to us as it did to those that were drowned with noah's flood. 
●en. 7. 8. 19  Whose example Christ layeth before us for the same cause, 
●ath. 24.  or as it happened to those of Sodom and Gomorrha, 
Thess. 5.  which were suddenly consumed with fire from Heaven. And that when we say peace, peace, our overthrow come not suddenly on us, before we have leisure to end our business. For if our age were of Gold, 
The new mel●yng of the World.  Silver, Brass, Iron, or any other metal, it might be melted again and made a new, but being as it is, I have small hope. What thinkest thou Theophrastus.  Theo. 
If I had any hope, I should rather hope, that God would do as he hath promised by his Prophets: he saith he will gather together all the Gold, Silver, Brass, Copper, Tin, Led, Latin, and all other metals, and will cast them into a furnase in the midst of jerusalem, to purge them, and to try out all the dross and falsehood. But it is very hard to do this, for the disease is incurable.  jerom. 
We may well say with Titus Livius, that the world is so corrupt, that we can neither away with the vices, nor the remedies necessary for the same.  Theo. 
He is a very wayward and unpatient patient, and therefore is like an old year than pot, which when it is once cracked, can neither be melted, sowed, nor mended again, but the shards serve either to lad out water, or to fetch fire in. And yet I am afraid lest that happen unto him which the Lord by his Prophets threateneth the wicked withal: saying, that he will break them like an year than pot, and will not leave so much as one piece or shared to carry either fire or water in: Or else that which David Prophesieth of the wicked, saying: They shallbe all pulled up like thorns, which no man handleth: and if any man touch them, he shall be fenced with Iron, or the staff of a spear, and they shall be wholly burnt: David doth rightly compare the wicked to thorns, which every way do hurt: for they do not only hinder the earth from bearing fruit, but also prick and hurt them, that either come near them or handle them. Therefore the Lord threateneth the wicked as unruly thorns, that he will not only cut them, but wholly pluck them up, and because none dare come near them or touch them: he hath promised that their hands shall be fenced with Iron that they may handle them, and to give them forks to throw them into fire, to burn and consume them to nought.  Toby. 
I once complained that men transfigured themselves into brute beasts. But I am now more afraid, lest they become worse and more furious, then the man which was possessed with a legion of devils: which dwelt among the graves, and could neither be tied nor chained, but he broke them. I remember an old wives tale in our country, that S. Barnard had the Devil chained on the hill where his Abbey standeth: and because he went about to gnaw the the chain a sunder to get away: the Smiths there about every mondaie, before they went to work, strike three strokes with their hammer on the Andfild to mend and repair the chain which he had gnawn, lest he should break it in sunder and get lose. If it be so, it appears that S. Barnard tied him not sure enough or else that the Smiths did not their duty to mend his chain, for it seemeth now, that he is not only broken lose himself, but hath opened hell gates for all his companions, & so they are spread over the whole world. I know not what rule they keep in hell, but I think verily that the devils are broken lose, 
Apoc. 12.  and go about to make an other hell in this world, that they may have a hell, as well for quick as for dead.  Theo. 
Thou art well seen in old wives tales. But to speak in earnest, I am afraid lest that Devil, that is spoken of in the apocalypse, which was bound for a thousand years, be let lose and have more liberty now then ever he had: And least that Read Dragon, which is all imbrued with the blood of Martyrs, who with his Angels fought in the heavens against S. Michael & his Angels, be thrown down from heaven, that is to say: from the church of jesus Christ by the power of his Gospel, and that he is fallen on the earth with his Angels, that is to say, into the hearts of the wicked, reprobate, and worldly men whom he filleth with rage and fury, to overthrow the whole Church of GOD. Wherefore, 
Apoc. 〈◊〉.  we may well say with S. John Woe be to the inhabitants of the yearth and the sea: For the Devil is come down among you in great wrath, knowing that his time is short, he is in greater rage than ever he was, fearing the loss of his kingdom. It is good reason, that it should happen to Christians, as our saviour Christ did foretell unto the jews, 
Punishment of jews.  by the similitude of the wicked spirit, which walked through desert and dry places to seek rest but found none: 
Matth. 12.  then he said: I will return into mine house from whence I came and when he came he found it empty, swept, and garnished: then he went in, and took unto him seven other spirits worse than himself. And the end of that man, is worse than the beginning.  Toby. 
This parable seemeth very dark to me, what meaneth our Saviour Christ thereby.  Theo. 
Even so happened it to the jews. 
Exod. 13. 14. 19 20.  The lord carried them out of Egypt, and gave them his law, 
Psalm. 78.  whereby he drove the Devil from amongst them. But thorough their Idolatry and Sin, he gave them over to the hand of Tyrants, which Moses told them of before, by whose means Satan went about utterly to destroy the people of GOD. It appeareth more plainly in the Books of the judges, Samuel, the Kings, the Chronicles, and the Maccabees, that they were many times afflicted by Gentiles & Idolaters, which were their neighbours, and principally by the Assyrians, babylonians, and Greeks, but especially by Antiochus Epiphanes, who rightly is taken for the figure of Antichrist, by reason of his heinous enterprises against God and his word. 
1. Esdras. 1.  But the lord being always merciful to his Church, after he had chastised them for their sins did deliver them from these great mischiefs, and gave them some respite and consolation. But they afterward forgot again the scourage of the lord, and behaved themselves worse against Christ his Apostles and disciples, than ever their predecessors did against the Prophets? 
Daniel. 9  Therefore they could look for nothing, 
Rom. 10. 11.  but only the visitation of God, more sharply and terribly then before, and that he should destroy and wholly overthrow them, giving them over to the power of sathan which he did, when he called the Gentiles to the grace of the Gospel, and rejected them, and gave them over into the hands of the Romans, 
Matth. 24.  who have more cruelly handled them, 
Luks. 21.  than any of the tyrants before that tyme. Wherefore jesus Christ said not without cause, 
Matth. 2. 4.  that there was never such tribulation nor vengeance of God, 
The jews are amanifest example of the judgement of God.  since the beginning of the world: of which vengeance the scattering of the jews throughout all the world, is witness to this day. Whereby we may well perceive, how God hath reserved them, as a witness of his just judgement, to all those that stand against jesus Christ or his Gospel. For there is not a more miserable nor cursed people under the cope of heaven: by whom God hath showed us a great example, if we can beware. But we seem to be holy like them: they had the example of Sodom and Gomorrha before their eyes: 
Gene. 19  for they might almost see from their own Country, the situation of the towns, which by fire and brimstone sent from heaven, were consumed by the just judgement of God: whose witness remaineth on the yeareth for ever. For, where as before it was compared to Paradise, now it remaineth so in God's curse, 
Gene. 13.  that it beareth no fruit that can sustain man, but it turneth immediately into smoke and ashes. 
Stra. lib. 16.  As the Heathen Historiographers & Cosmographers witness, 
Cor. tac. li. 23. The Israelites  and namely Cornelius Tacitus, & Strabo, although they knew not the judgement of God, from whence it proceeded. The Israelites which held Samaria, had there a plain spectacle before their eyes, but they could not beware by it, but so far provoked the wrath of God, that he drived them by the Assyrians, from the land that he had given them. Likewise their brethren of juda saw all these examples and judgements of God manifestly, 
juda.  and could not amend, but did worse than Israel: wherefore God punished them like wise by the babylonians. Their successors might have been warned by the examples and punishments of their predecessors. But it behoved them (as our saviour Christ told them) to fill up the measure of their fathers. 
Matth. 23.  And therefore God must needs use extreme vengeance towards them, and so curse them as we at this day see, from one end of the world to the other.  Toby. 
I am afraid lest the like hap now to us Christians.  Theo. 
It is sore to be feared: For now jesus Christ is come, which hath driven and discovered sathan, that quietly reigned in the world, and called the Gentiles and paynim, from whom we sprang, to the grace of the Gospel, which ever before served the Devil and his Idols. But we very unthankfully receive the grace that God hath showed us. Therefore we may see what vengeance God hath used towards the east Churches, and against all the Churches of Asia and Africa, by that false Prophet Mahomette, and by the Turk his adherentes: The most Churches of Europe ought to take heed by their example.  Toby. 
Thou sayest true, but we will not pass for it, till we be as they are, and till the same light upon us.  Theo. 
If we be not wholly blind, we may see how the Lord hath poured out his wrath, and exercised his vengeance upon us, through that romish antichrist, for what disolation and ruin hath he brought the Christian Church in. Now after all this great desolation and ruin, which is fallen on all Churches, jesus Christ hath vouchsafed to visit us once again with his Gospel, which we receive even as the jews did. Wherefore I look for none other thing, but God's just judgement upon us, even as they had, and have to this day: and there is none other likelihood, but that the utter consumption of the world is at hand, 
The destruction of jerusalem, a figure of the end of the world  when their wickedness shall come to the fullness, as theirs of jerusalem did, which was a figure of that last judgement of God that we look for. And that was the cause that our saviour Christ joined both together, in the answer that he made to his Disciples, 
Matth. 24.  when they questioned with him, of the destruction of jerusalem, and the end of the world.  Toby. 
Then have I good cause to say, that the world is possessed with Devils.  Toby. 
Nay, it is to be feared, lest we become worse: and lest that wicked spirit come again, with seven. other spirits worse than himself, and that our state be worse than ever it was. 
The true Physic of the diseased and possessed. world.  For the likelihoods be very great, the danger is such, that it is impossible for any to remedy, but only our Saviour Christ, who alone hath all power to command Devils, whom they fear, and whom only they obey. 
Matth. 8. 17.  But seeing we have forsaken him, driven him away from us, and will not receive him again, 
Mark. 1.  when he offereth his grace: it is no marvel though there be many in the world possessed with devils, seeing he is gone that had only power to cast them out. And therefore we are like those, that bound and chained the possessed man, that dwelled among the graves: for, though they tied him never so fast, it was to no purpose, he broke all, till our saviour Christ came, which healed him, and made him as meek as a Lamb. Which worldly men could not do, by all the means they could devise. 
The Physicians of the diseased world.  There are many now adays, that go about to heal the diseased, frantic, and possessed world, and to drive the devils out of him. And think to do it, by their own policies, counsels, authority, power, and richesses, and by the conjurings and adjurings of their Ceremonies and Traditions, but they make him worse, as we have proved of long time, and do yet see it daily before our eyes: what thinkest thou Jerome.  jerom. 
Me thinks when the world comes out of such physicians hands, he is like to those that are lead to S. Matunes in France: for if they be but frantic when they are led thither, they return from thence stark, staring mad. Also I fear me, lest the conjurers that thou speakest of, shallbe rewarded as the seven sons of Sceva the jew, (which likewise were Conjurers) were, who in going about to cast out the Devil out of the possessed man of Ephesus, so provoked him that he ran on them, 
Acts. 19  overthrew them, and prevailed against them, so that they fled out of the house naked and wounded.  Theo. 
The like shall hap to all those that go about to appease the trouble and fury, that now possesseth the world, if they used any other mean, than the power and wisdom of the word of God. For devils can not be cast out, but only by our saviour Christ, or his disciples which come in his name, power, and strength. For, it is jesus Christ of whom it is written: that he appeaseth the noise of the seas, & the noise of the waves thereof, 
Psalm. 65.  & tumults of the people. Wherefore there is none but he that can deliver the little ship of the church of God, from the swallowing gulfs, 
Matth. 8. 14.  and troublesome seas of this world: 
Ihon. 6.  for it is only to him, that the winds & tempests obey, which are creatures without reason or understanding, neither hearing nor seeing: therefore they fear and acknowledge none but God, to be their master & governor. 
The true conjuring of devils.  There is none other conjuration, that hath any power over them but only the name of jesus Christ: and he that cometh in any other name, or bringeth any other doctrine, shall not heal the disease, but rather increase it. And it is not enough to come in the name of Christ, and to bring his doctrine, but it must be done with his spirit, and faith. For, the sons of Sceva did use the name of Christ, when they Conjured the wicked spirit, yea, the name of jesus which Paul preached: 
Acts. 16.  but he obeyed them not, for they took the name of jesus in vain, not having such faith in him and in his word, as Paul had: and therefore the Devil answered them, that he knew them, but feared them not. Many also in these days come in the name of Christ, and boast much of his Gospel, but because they are without faith and affection, towards the church of Christ, their doctrine is of no great force. For, the power of jesus Christ and his doctrine, consisteth not in words, but in faith: his troth lieth not in the tongue, but in the heart. For the Gospel is no Gospel, nor the word of God is no word, but only the dead letter, except it be joined with the power and efficacy of the holy ghost, who is the author thereof. Neither hath it any great power in him that uttereth it, except it be uttered in faith, so that he may truly say with David and S. Paul, 
Psalm. 116.  I have believed, 
2. Cor. 4.  and therefore have I spoken. And, we also believe, and therefore speak. For, to usurp the word of God, only in the mouth, without the faith and troth of the spirit of God, is to abuse the name of God, as the false Prophets, hirelings, and Enchanters do: for, the kingdom of God consisteth not in the word, but in the power and efficacy of the same.  Toby. 
I believe thee very well: & seeing that there is so little faith in the world, I do not much marvel, though the word of God take so little effect in many now a days, aswell the Preachers as the hearers. Furthermore, thou mayest well call this world a raging sea, for it is tossed and turmoiled on every side, with horrible & violent winds of ambition, vainglory, avarice, extortion, Pride, arrogancy, presumption, over weening, envy, hatred, malice, and vengeance: which have so swollen and moved it, and tossed up the waves so high, that I look every hour when it shall over flow, and drown up the earth, as noah's flood did.  Theo. 
The Geographers, and natural Philosophers write, that there are four principal winds that blow on the earth: besides them there are other, every one in his place, but none of them writeth commonly of more than of xii. in all, and the violent blustering of one or two of these, is sufficient to trouble both yearth, sea, air, and to overthrow altogether. Let us not then marvel though the sea of this world, be wonderfully troubled, & we in great danger, considering that there are more than xii, yea, xii. C. or xii. M. contrary winds, that cease not daily to bluster and blow one against an other. What waves will they make? What tempests must they move? And yet we are in worse case.  Toby. 
How is it possible to be worse.  Theo. 
Thus, those men that sail on this sea, are all in one danger, and therefore they ought to lay hold on their tackling, and set hand to the oars, & so help the mariners and governors, to save themselves from dannger, & to avoid present death: but they are so overthwart, and so hate one an other, that to be revenged the one of the other, they bore holes in the Ship, wherein they themselves are, to drown their fellows, who cannot be drowned without them.  Toby. 
I do not well understand thee.  Theo. 
When a ship is full of holes, are not all they in great danger that are in it?  Toby. 
They are not very far from their death.  Theo. 
What wouldst thou say, if there were some in the Ship, that would bore holes in it, to drown their fellows.  Toby. 
I would say, that they were not well in their wits, & that they were both murderers of their fellows, & of themselves.  Theo. 
Even the like is daily used among men. For we see that they do not only hinder themselves, in seeking to hinder other, but also undo themselves, in seeking to undo other. It is even as much, as though the brother, should go about to drown the brother, or one neighbour an other: so that they are not worthy to be called men, but rather sea monsters, whales, & such other great fish, as eat up the little fish. I would ask thee a question. If thou shouldest see a man tear his face, pull out his eyes, cut his nose and his ears, break his head against the walls, & thrust a knife in his own throat: wouldst thou think him in his right wits?  Toby. 
Who would not judge him stark mad?  Theo. 
If we mark the trade of the world now adays, we can not but judge him such a one. For, sith we are all one body, he that goeth about to hinder or undo his neighbour, doth he not lay hands on himself? Doth he not disfigure his own body, and like a mad man tear his own members? And so undo himself.  Toby. 
Do you then marvel though I complain, and that my wits be so troubled, that I wot not what to say: I see that Truth, Right, justice, and Equity, are not to be found on the yearth.  Theo. 
Where shall we seek them then? 
Prince's Courts.  In the Pope's court, or in the courts of Princes, or great lords that persecute the church of Christ? Who doth now maintain truth and justice, but only such as David describeth these of saul's court to be? that is, his mortal enemies: of whom he complaineth thus. 
Psalm. 59  They go to and fro in the evening, 
1. Samu. 19  they bark like dogs, and go about the city. Behold they brag in their talk, and sword are in their lips. Even as they that were sent by Saul, went and came, and closed David's house, when Saul sought to put him to death, to the end he might not escape, and as they roared & howled like dogs that pursue wild beasts, even so do they now adays, seek after the true servants of God. We may add to this saying of David, that that he saith in an other Psalm, of the nature of the wicked, 
Psalm. 10.  thus. He saith in his heart, I shall never be moved, nor be in danger. His mouth is full of cursing, deceit, & fraud, under his tongue is mischief & iniquity. He lieth in wait in the villages, in the secret places doth he murder th' innocent, his eyes are bend against the poor. Wherefore doth the wicked condemn God? he saith in his heart, thou wilt not regard. Hear also what Micheas saith touching the same matter. 
Micha. 7.  The good man is perished out of the earth, & there is none righteous among men, they all lie in wait for blood, every man hunteth his brother with a net. To make good for the evil of their hands, the Prince asked, and the judge judged for a reward: therefore the great man he speaketh out of the corruption of his soul, so they wrap it up. The best of them is as a brier and the most righteous of them is sharper than the Thorn hedge.  Toby. 
All this we see in our tyme.  Theo. 
Therefore we may well say, that it is the time whereof isaiah complaineth, 
Esaie. 59  saying: 
Roma. 3.  Your hands are full, 
Psalm. 7.  and polluted with blood, & your fingers with iniquity. Your lips speak lies, and your tongue murmureth wickedness. There is none that crieth for justice, none judgeth according to troth, but trust in vain things. They speak things of nought, they conceive labour, and bring forth iniquity. They have broken the serpent's eggs: and they spin the spider's web. He that eateth of their eggs shall die, and if they be broken, there will come forth a Cockatrice. The work of wickedness is in their hands, their feet run to do mischief, and they make haste to shed the blood of the innocent. Their thoughts are thoughts of vanity, waist and perdition is in their way: they have not known the way of peace, and there is no judgement in their paths. They so perverted their own ways, that whosoever walketh in them, shall not know peace. And therefore hear what council Michea giveth us against such people. 
Mich. 7.  Trust ye not in a friend neither put ye confidence in a counsellor, keep the doors of thy mouth, from her that lieth in thy bosom. For the son revileth the Father, the daughter riseth up against her Mother, the daughter in law against her mother in law, and a man's enemies are the men of his own house. Therefore I will look unto the lord: I will wait for God my Saviour, my God will hear me.  Toby. 
I promise you, this is very good counsel.  Theo. 
Who can deny, but that Esay was a great Physician, and did better know the Nature of man, than ever did Esculapius, Hypocrates, or Galen, which are esteemed the princes of Physic? For in their lives, they never made so good & true Anatomy of man, as the Prophet hath done in this place, even now alleged, neither did they ever describe so truly & lively, all the parts of the body, to make us the better to know and understand all the nature thereof. 
A prophetical anatomy of man and of the world.  For he maketh an Anatomy both of body and soul, wherein he so aptly describeth all the parts with their properties, that there is nothing that can be added unto it. He first showeth generally, what whole man is, then cometh he to the principal parts of him: that is, the head and the heart: and from them, to the tongue and the mouth: the hands & the feet, to th'end his Anatomy might be perfit, & for further declaration thereof he saith: 
Esay. 5●.  judgement is turned backward, and justice standeth a far of, for truth is fallen in the ●●reate, and equity cannot enter. Yea truth faileth, and he that refraineth from evil, maketh himself a pray, and when the Lord saw it, it displeased him that there was no judgement. And when he saw that there was no man, he wondered that none would offer himself: therefore his arm did save it, and his righteousness itself did sustain it.  Toby. 
I would he would yet say more, for there was never more need. I believe when the Prophet spoke this, he foresaw, by inspiration of the holy ghost, the trade of the world now adays: for it is unpossible better to paint out our time, or with livelier colours, than he hath doen. For, what is the world now, but a wild Forest and desert of horrible thefts and murders? For there is now almost no justice, but in the force of the hand and sword, whereby he carrieth away the price, be it right or wrong. Is not this true Jerome?  jerom. 
Ovid saith touching this matter that they fear no laws, but justice and equity are constrained to give place to force and violence: and right being overcome, is thrown down, & laid under the sword And anon after speaking of the Iron age in his Metamorphosis, he concludeth.  
L● now lies pity under foot,  
and Lady justice last:  
Of heavenly virtues, from this yearth,  
in slaughter drowned paste.  
He meaneth as much in effect, as Hesiodus before him had said, which is thus much in some.  
Now shamefastness and justice eke,  
clean clad in white array:  
Are fled from hence, and bootless  
griefs, have left to men for aye.  
Seeing then that it appeareth, that there is nothing, but will & might in place of reason and right, it is like the example that Homer bringeth forth of king Agamemnon, who said: if ye will not give it me, I will take it.  Toby. 
That sentence was very tyrannous but what other thing is used almost now adays? And Hesiodus speaking of the like thing, bringeth forth an example of the Hawk and Nightingale, wherein he doth as it were reprove tyrants, and showeth how the small and weaker sort, are constrained to suffer wrong and extortion, of the stronger and violent: and that tyrants are among men, as priing foul are among birds, his words are thus much in effect 
But now to Kings a tale I tell,  
which haply erst they knew:  
The Hawk fast caught the nightingale,  
and high in clouds she flew.  
This silly bird, when she so felt  
those gripping talents smart:  
With mourning voice she wailed her hap.  
when Hawk with cruel heart  
'Gan say, thou wretch why wailest thou?  
thy better hath thee quailed:  
Though thou in song more pleasant be  
my power hath now availd.  
I may thee bear from place to place,  
and sup on thee this night:  
I may thee keep or else release,  
who can resist my might?  
Hereby you see what folly 'tis,  
to strive with higher powers:  
Might, now is right, so for thy meed:  
thou getst but stormy showers.   Toby. 
Truly poor men that are in tyrant's hands, are like the Nightingale in the hawks talents, for, sing they never so sweetly (as the common Proverb is) the belly hath no ears, let them talk, reason, and show asmuch law for themselves as they will, it helps them even asmuch, as did the sweet singing of the Nightingale out of the Falcons tallentes. For, tyrants hear with none other ears, nor other reason then their own, that is their will, therefore, whosoever resisteth them, is never the near, for he wrappeth himself in more danger, and moveth them to more wrath.  jerom. 
Therefore, we may well say of this matter, that we daily prove that to be true, that king Pyrrhus answered to one of his young children, which demanded of him, to whom he would resign his kingdom, he answered. To him that hath the sharpest sword amongst you: there is almost none other reason in the world now adays.  Toby. 
When I consider the states and trades of divers cities & towns, me thinks they be like a den of thieves: for there is almost no occupation, art, or practise, but hath his pilling & polling, wherewith he cutteth poor men's throats. 
The state of the world.  And when I consider the friendship & agreement that countries, cities, towns, villages, neighbours, kinsfolks, friends, brethren, sisters, & generally all men bear one to an other, me thinks I see, Griphons, Lions, Bears, Boars, Wolves, Dogs, Hogs, Foxes, Snakes, Vipers, Scorpions, Cockatrices, Eagles, hawks, & other priing birds, with all kinds of wild beasts, shut up together in a park or iron cage, which fight, sting, bite, tear, devour, & consume one an other And who in this case dare come near them to set them at one. For they will assoon fall upon him that comes to do good, as on him that comes to make debate, yea, rather sooner, 
The greatest danger now a days.  & his danger is greater. For, it is the greatest & most dangerous state now adays, to be an upright man. For the French proverb saith: he that makes himself a sheep the Wolf will eat him. Wherefore, we must play the wolves with wolves, & wicked with the wicked, if we will be at quiet, yea, it so rageth now adays, that a man cannot know his friend from his foe. And therefore, 
A deaf man in a chafe.  they that meddle to reform or set a stay in this matter, are used as if they had to do with a deaf man, who when he is stricken or angered, striketh the next that cometh near him, of the next that he meats, whether they be his friends or his foes: whither they come to hurt him or to help him: for, lack of hearing & understanding, he is not able to judge of his friends from his enemies, but all adventures without respect, lays on load as though every man were his enemy.  jerom. 
If it be so dangerous to have to do with a deaf man, how much more dangerous is it, 
The world deaf, blind and possessed  to meddle with him that is both deaf, dumb, yea, and possessed with a Devil, as many are in these days? Thou hast heretofore compared the world to one, possessed with a Legion of Devils but as the possessed (which our Saviour Christ healed) were of divers sorts, so are they that now adays live in the world.  Toby. 
Why, how knowest thou that?  jerom. 
Ask of Theophraste how many sorts our Saviour Christ healed, as he findeth in the Scriptures: and then thou shalt easily know, if all those divers kinds of devils, which then tormented men are not now as rife, as ever they were, or worse, and if there be none possessed with devils now, which torment others also.  Toby. 
Tell what thou thinkest of this matter Theophrast?  Theo. 
I am contented so to do, but before we enter any further in this matter: I must desire leave to look home, and I will come again strait.  Toby. 
That is good reason, for we will not trouble thee, if thou have other business.   

¶ The title and some, of the second Dialogue.  
THE second Dialogue is entitled (Black devils) because that mention is made herein, of the most furious possessed with devils, which dwelled among graves and deserts, and of such men as are like unto them, and namely of such as be tyrants, persecutors, and open enemies of the people of God. For, this sort of Devils and possessed, are less transfigured into Angels of light, than such cloaked enemies as make show of friendship and familiarity.  
As concerneth the principal points, whereof this Dialogue treateth, first there is talk of diversities of such devils and possessed, as our Saviour Christ healed.  
afterward there is showed thee, in what sense wicked men may be holden for possessed, and what manner of possessed they are.  
Of good and evil Angels, and what they do about men.  
Of the power, malice, and practices of the Devil, and how aware men ought to be of them.  
Of the remaining of the possessed in graves or deserts, and the causes thereof.  
Of such as are given over to the Devil, and of the just judgement of God on the wicked, and the Image of their hell.  
Of such men as are of wild and unbridled nature.  
Of the torment of the Soul and Conscience.  
Of the power of the bridled Devil.  
Of tyrants possessed with devils.  
Of the Crowns of the red Dragon, and their signification, and of the judgement of God on all persecutors, that have persecuted the people of God.  
Of the nature and difference of Black devils from White devils, and how dangerous aswell the one as the other is.   

¶ The second Dialogue called Black devils.  Toby, Theophrast, Eustace, Jerome. 
NOw that thou art come Theophraste, I pray thee show us (ccording to thy promise) the diversities & Natures of those that were possessed with devils, whom our Saviour Christ healed.  Theo. 
The Evangelists witness, 
Matth. 12.  that he cast out many wicked spirits, 
Mark. 8.  that tormented the possessed, whereof they writ not at large: but there are some other of whom they writ more largely & specially amongst which also there were great diversity.  Toby. 
Whereupon dost thou gather that diversity, whereof thou speakest?  Theo. 
We may gather it, 
The diversity of the possessed healed by our Saviour Christ.  either by the multitude of wicked spirits, that then tormented the possessed, or by the time when they began to torment them, or by the working of wicked spirits in them, and the evils which the devils did them, or by the quality of the persons so possessed.  Toby. 
Show us the example of all these divers sorts possessed, so that we may better understand, this thy distinction.  Theo. 
There were some, which were not tormented with one wicked spirit only, but with many, some likewise were possessed and tormented with the Devil from their childhood, and youth: some other in their age, some also there were, which were not only in great fury and rage, by reason of the Devils which possessed them, but also were both blind, deaf, and dumb. And touching those that were possessed, they were not all of one quality, as we shall perceive more at large in this place.  Toby. 
I do not so much demand of thee, 
A Legion of devils in the possessed.  the example of those that were tormented with many evil Spirits, because we have already talked thereof, in talking of him that was possessed with a Legion of devils.  Theo. 
Saint Matthew maketh not only mention, 
Matth. 8.  of one that was so tormented with a number of devils, but saith that therewere two: Although Saint Mark and Saint Luke, make mention but of one only, for that the story of him was sufficient for them, to manifest that thing that saint Matthew minded to set forth, for the power and grace of jesus Christ, in the story of the two possessed, of whom he writeth. To these two we may add that, which saint Luke writeth of Marie Sagdaline, 
Luks. 8.  saying: That our Saviour Christ cast out seven Devils from her, wherewith she was possessed.  Toby. 
What hast thou to say of these kind of possessed, 
The errors of the Papists touching Mary Magdaline.  & namely of Mary Magdaline: for there are many that understand that those seven devils which our Saviour cast out, were the seven deadly sins which had overcome her. Hast not thou heard the like Eustace.  Eust. 
Yea, I have heard our Preachers preach so, which say that she was a common Harlot, before she was converted to Christ, but when he convertrd her, he drove out seven devils out of her, that is to say: the seven deadly sins, whereunto she was subject like a poor miserable sinner, given over to all filthiness. I think Theophrastus will not say the contrary.  Theo. 
If I should show how many kind of ways your Preachers are deceived in this thing, and you with them, I should spend to much time, and go to far from the chief matter whereof we now talk: wherefore I will but glance over the points which serve least to our matter.  Eust. 
Wherein is it that our Preachers are deceived and we with them?  Theo. 
First, 
Luke. 7.  in that they take Marie Magdaline, 
Ihon. 12.  and Marie the sister of Lazarus and Martha, 
Luke. 7. 8.  & the sinner of whom S. Luke speaketh, all for one woman, where in deed they are three several women, as it is easy to be proved by the Histories of the Gospel: if I had time to talk of it, but that I will leave till more leisure.  Eust. 
What hast thou to say more.  Theo. 
That your Doctors herein do show their ignorance, 
The number of mortal sins.  in forgiving such number of mortal sins, as if there were but seven.  Eust. 
Why, thinkest thou that there are more?  Theo. 
Yea, I say that all sins are mortal of themselves, for that they deserve death, even eternal death: and so remain continually mortal to the reprobates, in as much as they neither ask nor obtain pardon through jesus Christ, 
The difference between mortal and venial sins  which maketh them venial to the elect of God, thorough steadfast faith in him. But because this is not to our matter, I will wade no further in it.  Eust. 
Thinkest thou then, 
The seven Devils which were in Mary Magdaline.  that those seven devils that were in her, of their very nature and substance?  Theo. 
No man can deny it, except he will manifestly gainsay S. Luke and overthrow his meaning, for he speaketh not in this place of the forgiveness of sins, which Sinners obtain through jesus Christ: but he manifestly speaketh of the marvelous works of Christ, through which, he not only delivered the possessed of the wicked Spirits which tormented them, but also he healed many of divers diseases, infirmities & sickennesses. Wherefore, there is no cause why they should here take those devils for the seven deadly sins. 
The difference betwixt the possessed, and those that the Devil dwelleth in by sin.  For if we will understand hereby that our Saviour Christ driveth Devils out of those, who he delivereth out of their hands, and withdraweth from sin: we may rightly say, that he worketh many such miracles daily. But they are miracles in the soul, whereof S. Luke speaketh no whit in the place here alleged, but of such miracles as were manifestly done in the body itself. For although the Devil dwell in those that are subject unto him through sin: nevertheless, we do not properly call them possessed with devils, except they torment their body, or so trouble their mind, as it turn into a fury or rage. And if we should take the devils for mortal sins, in all the possed that the Evangelists make mention of, we could not then say, that our Saviour Christ did cast out devils of very nature and substance of the possessed whom he healed, but only that he delivered them from their sins. For there is no more reason to drive us to take those devils (which possessed Marie Magdaline) for sins, then of any other so possessed.  Eust. 
I perceive well enough that I spend my time in waste to dispute with you. For your new Divinity condemneth all the doctrine of our Doctors and Preachers, and ye like nothing but only your new opinions.  Theo. 
Our opinions are not new, neither do we condemn the doctrine of your Doctors and Preachers, nor of any other, but where they are contrary to the pure word of God. And if we condemn any doctrine by this word, it is not we that condemn it, but God himself: whose sentence we do but pronounce as heretofore his Prophets, Apostles and Evangelists have doen.  Eust. 
Seing you expound the holy scriptures as it pleaseth you, I will let Toby and you go forward with your matter.  Toby. 
I deny not for my part, 
In what sense the wicked may be holden for possessed.  but that the possessed which the Evangelists speak of, were verily possessed with devils: otherwise then sinners, wicked and reprobate are commonly possessed with sin, through which the Devil dwelleth in them. But on the other side, may we not rightly hold the wicked and reprobate for possessed, which give themselves over to the devil, and do the works of the same? For though they show fairer countenance, them those whom we properly call possessed, and show themselves not so furious, nevertheless, they many times execute stronger and horribler things, than they do, which are even holden for very possessed.  Theo. 
I do not only agree to that that thou hast spoken, but I say further, that this sort of possessed are much more dangerous than the other, if a man could know them. For, the less they are known the more hurt they do, not only to other men, but to their own selves. And because men can not well perceive how the Devil hurteth their souls by means of sin. God hath set forth this Image before their eyes in the persons of the possessed which are known to be such, to the end that by them they might learn to know, by the tyranny which the Devil executeth on their bodies, what tyranny he useth on their souls when they are given over to him. Now, when we read that which the Evangelists have written of the possessed, let us consider in them, the estate of poor sinners which are in the power of Satan.  Toby. 
What sayest thou to the first, touching the possessed, which are tormented with many devils.  Theo. 
Thou knowest that it hath been a common opinion among Christian men of long time, that God hath given to each man a good Angel to keep him, and likewise that every man hath an evil Angel that striveth with the good, and goeth about to hurt and wholly overthrow him whose evil Angel he is.  Toby. 
Yea, I can yet say the prayer by rote that was taught me when I was young to bequeath me to my good Angel. But tell me I pray thee, thinkest thou not that every man hath a good and ill Angel?  Theo. 
Thou mayest here perceive by the histories of these possessed which were tormented with so many devils, that they had more than one evil Angel a piece, for they had as many evil Angels as they had devils within them.  Toby. 
If God suffer many devils at once to fall on one man, to hurt and destroy if they can, I doubt not, but that he giveth also when it pleaseth him many good Angels to his children, to guard and defend them from those wicked Angels, which are plain devils.  Theo. 
The holy Scripture maketh no express mention that God giveth any certain number of Angels to his elect, 
Of the guard and ministry of Angels.  to conduct and defend them, 
Psalm. 91.  but it generally teacheth us, 
Hebru. 1.  that God hath created Angels to serve those that are appointed to life everlasting, 
Math. 4. 18.  and that they be assigned to them, 
Psalm. 34.  to defend them. And therefore the Psalmest saith: That the Angels of the Lord are camped like an host, about them that fear the Lord. Furthermore, we read that the charge of a whole Country, kingdom or Empire is given by the Lord to one Angel, 
Daniel. 10.  as Daniel doth plainly declare. Likewise we read, that God hath sometimes sent many Angels to keep and defend one man, as witnesseth the vision of Heliseus servant: 
2. King. 5.  when the Lord caused him to see the succour that he sent Heliseus his master.  Toby. 
Seeing we have so many enemies, and so cruel, we have great need of God's safeguard, & that he send his Angels to keep, guide, and defend us, or else we should surely be but very ill kept.  Theo. 
Although our good God and father, 
wakefulness against snares & assaults of Satan.  hath very well provided for that from the beginning: nevertheless, we must not be careless, but watch continually, as warriors do, that look every hour for the assault or allaroms of their enemies. And therefore, 
1. Peter. 5.  after S. Peter had admonished the faithful to cast and lay all their care on God, assuring them, that God would be careful for them, he exhorteth them after this manner: be sober & watch, for your adversary the Devil as a roaring Lion walketh about, seeking whom he may devour, whom resist steadfast in the faith. Seeing then that the lord hath warned us of the malice of our enemy, and of the desire that he hath to hurt and overthrow us, and the diligence that he useth therein, and likewise of the duty on our part to resist him, and the means that God giveth us to defend ourselves, against that so dangerous an enemy, certainly we ought not to be careless and slothful therein. For, if we despise the warnings, that God by his word hath given us, and care no more for them, then if we were out of danger, do we not deserve that God in just judgement should give us over, into the hands of our adversary, as children of rebellion and disobedience. 
To tempt God.  For, we are forbidden tempt God: 
Dan. 6.  and we both tempt him and mock him, 
Math. 4.  when we despise his warnings, and use not the means, 
Luke. 4.  which he in his word hath declared unto us, 
Psal. 95.  and by which he will help and secure us. 
Heb. 4. 4.  And therefore the examples of the possessed, 
1. Cor. 10.  that we spoke of even now, 
The devils diligent to hurter  may serve to waken us, that we be not suddenly overcome with so cruel an enemy, 
job. 1. 2.  who as he desireth nothing but our utter destruction, 
Math. 12.  so he ceaseth neither day nor night, to range and roam to and fro, to set on us at unawares, as we see evidently by the example of job, and in the similitude which we spoke of before, that our Saviour Christ made unto the jews, touching the wicked spirit that wandered in the deserts, and sought for rest.  Toby. 
If one devil be sufficient to trouble, and torment the whole world, in what state be the poor possessed, that are not only troubled with one, 
The power that the Devil hath to torment men  but with many.  Theo. 
To th'end that we may the better judge of this matter, and perceive the malice and rage of our adversary, let us consider in what fury he brought those possessed, which answered our saviour Christ, that they had a Legion of devils within them, because they were possessed with a great number: as it well appeared (when Christ gave them leave to departed) by their entering into the Herd of Swine, that were there by: and then we shall well understand, how we may come to the knowledge by such examples, into what state the Devil bringeth men's souls, thorough the sin that reigneth in them, and into what torment and trouble he bringeth the whole world, by the same means.  Toby. 
I ween S. Matthew writeth that these two possessed, 
Math 8.  of whom thou speakest, came forth of the graves, & were very fearful, so that none could pass that way.  Theo. 
S. Mark touching this matter saith, 
Mark. 5.  that he had his abiding of him that he spoke thereof, among the graves, and no man could bind him, no not with chains: because that when he was often bound with fetters & chains, he plucked the chains in s●nder, and broke the fetters in pieces, neither could any man tame him: and always both night and day, he cried in the mountains, 
Luke. 8.  and in the graves, and stroke himself with stones. Saint Luke saith further of this matter, that he was long time possessed with the devil, and he ware no Clothes, neither abode in house, but in graves, and breaking the bands that he was bound with, was carried of the Devil into the wilderness.  Toby. 
There are many things to be considered in these possessed, in which I would know thy mind.  Theo. 
Show them in order, and I will answer thee to every of them, as GOD shall give me grace.  Toby. 
The first is, 
The abiding ●f the possessed in graves ●nd deserts.  touching their abiding in the graves and deserts: and why the devil rather carried them thither, then to any other place. For, saint Luke saith plainly, 
●uke. 8.  as thou didst rehearse even now that the devil did carry them to those places.  Theo. 
Thou must understand, 
Torment of the body and mind.  that the devil doth not only torment the possessed in their bodies, but also they so trouble their understanding, that all bodily torments were nothing, in comparison of the torment of the mind, now the devil having thus troubled their minds, puts horrible and strange things in their imagination: so that many times they know not, whether they be beasts, men, or devils: whether they be quick or dead, but even as their imaginations and fantasies carry them.  Toby. 
I have seen frantic, 
Fond imaginations of frantic men  melancholic, and furious men, which were not esteemed to be possessed, and yet had such imaginations, as could not be removed out of their heads, though the strangeness thereof were incredible. I have heard many tales of divers, that have been in that taking: but amongst other, of some which being out of their wits, thought they were ded: and had this toy rooted in their fantasy, that they could by no means be persuaded to eat meat: For, when any man offered them either meat or drink, they answered, that they were dead, & that ded folks did neither eat nor drink: so the some of them have died of hunger and thirst: and some of them have been brought to eating, because that other which feigned to be ded as well as they, did eat and drink.  Theo. 
John Nider maketh mention of a certain Citizen of Vienna in ostrich whom he saw whilst he studied there, 
Nider in formicar. Lib. 5. cap. 12.  that could never be persuaded, either to eat or drink, being in this raverie that thou speakest of, but died for hunger. Now, if diseases and evil humours that be in man, be able so to trouble his brain and understanding, it is not to be doubted, but that the Devil can trouble him more, and by many other means, whereof men know not the causes, whether it be that he use the means, of the evil disposition of those that he seeketh, or that he do it without the aid or mean thereof. And therefore it is very likely, that those devils which possessed the men, that we even now spoke of, had put some such like toy in their fantasy, and made them imagine that they were dead. For which cause, they fled the company of the living, and withdrew themselves into the graves (which were places appointed for the dead) as unto the lodging meetest for them, according to their fond imagination. And because desert places be not inhabited, they withdrew themselves thither, to flee the company of men. For, there are some melancholic and furious folk, that so hate men, & are grieved with the conversation of others, that they cannot away, either to see or hear any body, but desire to be alone like wild beasts. It seemeth that these two possessed men, were of these sorts, and therefore desired to be in desert places.  Toby. 
They that live in fear of Death, 
The fear of death.  live in a marvelous pain.  Theo. 
They live in a pain which tormenteth them, more than Death itself.  Toby. 
I doubt not thereof. But me seemeth that these, which already have opinion that they be ded, and both flee from the conversation of men with great hatred, & also this present life, are in much more miserable estate. For, he that feareth death liveth somewhat between fear and hope, but he that hath this opinion, that he is already dead, is not only out of all hope of life, but even in the case of a condemned person, in the hands of the hangman, or as the damned soul in perpetual pain.  Theo. 
Therefore thou mayest well think in what torment, the Souls of the poor possessed are, having such imagination. For they were, as having always present death before their eyes, and dying continually, and yet can not wholly die.  Toby. 
How could they imagine to be already dead, and yet to die again, as if they were not wholly dead? It seemeth that these imaginations, be quite contrary.  Theo. 
Thou must not marvel at that, for there is no stay in those, that are troubled in mind and understanding, but chief when the devil puts in foot: for they have no certain judgement, to judge any thing by reason, 
The torment of those, that are given over to Satan.  neither to understand reason when it is told them. Furthermore thou shalt understand, that the torments of these, which are given over into the hands of the Devil are so horrible, that it casteth them into utter despair: and therefore they seek all the means they can, to rid themselves of it, though it be never so impossible. Wherefore there is no doubt, but that the damned, which bear the judgement of God, feel themselves so overladen, with the burden of his wrath and curse, they would gladly be dispatched: yea, so ded, that there might be no memory of them after death, no more then of brute beasts.  Toby. 
I doubt not but that they had rather their souls were mortal than immortal, and that their bodies might not rise again, rather than to rise to perpetual torment.  Theo. 
Thou mayest well understand, 
Matth. 26.  that it was not for nought that our Saviour Christ said of judas: 
The judgement of God on the wicked  that it had been better that man had never been borne.  Toby. 
Wherefore said Christ so thinkest thou?  Theo. 
He said not simply that it had been good that judas had never been borne. 
prover. 16.  For how mischievous so ever he was GOD made his wicked treason to serve to his glory. And therefore it was good that he was borne in respect of gods glory, which created all things to that end. But scythe judas was so wicked that he mischeevously rebelled against God, and thereby deserved eternal damnation, our Saviour Christ spoke in respect of the person of judas, that it had been better that he had never been borne, them so wickedly to cast away himself for ever. Wherein our saviour Christ teacheth us two things worthy to be noted.  Toby. 
What is the first?  Theo. 
That is: that God so maketh wicked Instruments to serve to his glory, that by them he executeth his eternal ordinance, and yet nevertheless he punisheth them for their evil imaginations and wicked works.  Toby. 
What is the other point?  Theo. 
The other point is: that he thereby declareth unto us, how horrible the pain of the wicked and reprobate is, in that the greatness of the same is not to be compared, with the excellent gift of this mortal life, and the benefits which we may here receive.  Toby. 
Yet life is a good and excellent gift of God.  Theo. 
That is very true. And therefore if it be better for man never to have lived, or never to have been made, then to be made to bear the everlasting curse of God thou mayest easily judge, how great a burden it is, to bear such a judgement. And thereby we may perceive that, which jesus Christ speak to judas concerning this matter, was likewise spoken to all the reprobate & enemies of God. Ovid because we can not understand nor comprehend them, God hath here set forth before our eyes horrible images in these possessed men, 
The Image of the hell of the wicked.  whereof we speak. For I would ask thee a question. Whether hadst thou rather (if thou were put to thy choice) never to have been borne, or to be for ever in the estate that these possessed men were.  Toby. 
I had rather if I had none other respect but myself, never have been borne into the world.  Theo. 
And yet all that is written of these possessed men is nothing, in comparison of the torments of the damned & reprobate: which beginneth not only so soon as they are departed out of this present life, but even whilst they live, so soon as they resist God, & fight against their own consciences  Toby. 
We may then place those wicked ones that thou speakest of, in the number of these possessed men that make their abiding in the graves: as if they were already lodged with death, and had him always before their eyes.  Theo. 
Though they make a fairer show towards the world, than the possessed do, and are not so much tormented in body, yet are they no less tormented in spirit & conscience than they: for though they go about to appease it, as much as they can, yet the Lords saying shall always remain true which he spoke by the mouth of Esay: 
Esaie. 48.  saying. The wicked shall never have peace nor quietness, but shallbe continually like the Sea, which is always in torment.  Toby. 
As concerning those that thou speakest of, 
They that hate and are weary of all men.  which hate all men and their conversation, and seek to be solitary, because all the world doth extremely avoid them, I have known some, that in steed of ioiing in their wines and children, they have so extremely hated them, that they could neither see them nor hear them, no, nor abide any other person.  Theo. 
Thou mayest well place those in the number of those possessed that fled into the Deserts. For there are some wicked ones so envious and hateful to every man, through the extreme covetousness that continually grieveth their greedy heart, that they would have all the world themselves: therefore as they can away with no man, no more can any man away with than: yea, they can not away with themselves. And this is the cause that they become like to these possessed men, 
Math 8.  which not only fell upon all such as passed by and they met, 
Mark. 5.  so that none durst pass by the way where they were, but also they cruelly tormented themselves, and beat themselves against the stones.  Toby. 
If the Devil have such power over those whom he ruleth, that he causeth them to torment themselves, yea, if they could to destroy themselves, we need not marvel if such be cruel and furious against others.  Theo. 
Notwithstanding, thou seest how God hath Satan so in bonds, 
The Deville power bridled.  and bridleth him by his providence, that he cannot work his will, neither in the person of these poor possessed, nor in any other: for though these possessed break their chains and bonds, so that none could keep them bound nor stay them: nevertheless, they could neither destroy themselves, nor hurt any other further than the Lord gave than leave.  Toby. 
If God had not provided, they might have done much harm, considering that they were so furious, mighty and strong, that there were no bonds nor chains but they broke▪  Theo. 
Thou mayest well think, that that strength came not alone of themselves, for they were but men as other men are: whereby we may perceive, that the devils which possessed them, did employ their force to work such things, as surmounted the order of nature.  Toby. 
It is not to be doubted but that their strength came from them as thou hast said: for it is certain that it came not from the spirit of God as sampson's did: 
jude. 15. 16.  who also broke chains and bonds, carried away Town gates on his shoulders, and overthrew houses with the strength of his hands.  Theo. 
Nevertheless, thou seest how God hath these possessed in such bonds, that notwithstanding the strength that the devils gave them, yet were they always so subject to jesus Christ, as if he had had them in chains and bonds, and although they fled to the graves and deserts, yet when it pleased jesus Christ, he brought them from thence, and constrained them to appear before him, as if a judge should call a wicked doer out of prison: to appear before him, to give sentence against him. Now if our Saviour Christ, have showed such power on these possessed, and over the devils which tormented them, we may not doubt, but that he hath as much power now as ever he had, to repress the cloaked possessed, 
tyrants possessed.  that are now adays, and also these devils, by whom they are conducted and governed. But especially we may be well assured, that he will not lose the bridle more to tyrants, then to these possessed, whom they resemble in many things. For, they are strong and mighty possessed, whom man's power can not easily resist: yea, and they be furious, like the lord and master that they serve. And therefore, 
The crowne● and horns of the red Dragon.  it is written in the apocalypse, that the red Dragon had seven heads, and on every head a crown, and he had also ten horns. For, 
Apoc. 12.  the Devil hath at all times governed such tyrannous Kings and Princes, as persecuted the people of God. Furthermore, laws be given to men, as bonds and bridles to restrain them, from all kind of riot or beastly life: And therefore David admonisheth us, 
Psal. 32.  saying Be ye not like an Horse, or like a Mule, which understand not, whose mouths thou dost bind with Bit and Bridle, lest they come near thee. But there is neither bit nor bridle, that can restrain the tyranny, and fury of tyrants, by reason of their power, and the practices that the Red Dragon, which is the Devil, worketh in them and by them. Wherefore, they may well be compared to those furious, violente, and wild possessed men. But our greatest comfort, is, that jesus Christ which is their judge, is able enough to call them to judgement before him, either to bridle their rage, or to condemn them to the bottomless pit of hell to the Devil, whom they had rather obey then God. And therefore it is written in the book of Daniel, 
Dan. 7.  that the Son of God hath judged and condemned all beasts: By which is signified the empire and kingdoms, which have persecuted the people and chuche of God, and have done so much harm on the yearth.  Toby. 
I understand this point very well: Now remaineth to hear, what Jerome hath to say.  jerom. 
Because that the tyrants which openly persecute the people, and Church of God, and use nothing but rage, force, and violence, do manifestly declare themselves, to be the enemies of God and his church, it seemeth that we may rightly call such possessed and devils, black devils.  Toby. 
Why sayest thou so? 
Black Devils  Didst thou ever see, either black or white devils?  jerom. 
Seeing they are spirits without bodies, they can neither be black nor white, for they can receive no colour, sith that colours have no place, but in visible and corporal things. But I speak this, because Painters commonly paint Devils black, and we imagine them so to be, which is not wholly without reason: 
The Prince of darkness his livery.  For, seeing the Devil is Prince of darkness, the colour is very meet for his livery, because it representeth darkness much better, than any other, as whiteness best representeth light: for which cause contrariwise, Painters commonly make Angels white and shining: And when they have appeared to men in likeness of men, they have often times appeared after that manner, as the holy Scripture witnesseth.  Toby. 
Seeing the Devil is a Prince, 
Math. 28.  yea, 
Mark. 16.  the Prince of the world, 
Luk. 24.  and is al●o called the Prince of darkness, 
Ihon. 20.  it is good reason that he should have a livery, 
Acts. 1. 10.  as other Princes and lords have, 
Ihon. 12. 15.  and that it should be black. 
2. Cor. 3.  And so seeing thou didst call these black devils, 
Luke. 22.  that we talked of, 
Ephe. 2.  thou makest me imagine that thou thinkest, that there are also white devils: or else thou needest not to have used that title, as a distinction of black Devils from other.  jerom. 
As we may rightly call those black devils, which openly show themselves to be Devils, so likewise may we call those white devils, which transfigure themselves into Angels of Light. 
White Devils  For, although they be devils in deed, 
2. Cor. 11.  nevertheless, they disguise themselves so, that they are taken for Angels of Light, though they be Angels of darkness.  Toby. 
I think those white Devils, are more dangerous than the black, for that they are more subtle and traitorous then the other, and are no less cruel and furious.  jerom. 
There is no difference, but that these white Devils, can better cover their cruelty and rage for a time, but in th'end they are rewarded like hypocrites, even as they are devilish hypocrites, their cloaked hypocrisy, cruelty, and fury, must be discovered. And therefore it cometh to pass many times, that these kind of devils become more fell and murderous, than any other.  Theo. 
Seeing we have spoken of black devils, 
Ancient black Devils and white devils.  I would we speak a little of white Devils, that we might learn their nature, and beware of them.  jerom. 
As thou hast had examples of black Devils, in all the ancient tyrants, which heretofore have persecuted the church, whereby thou mayest know their nature, thou hast likewise many examples of white Devils, in all the ancient Heretics, and in all the Hypocrites, and household enemies of the church: which hath ever done more harm, than all the open enemies that ever the Church had, how cruel so ever they were.  Toby. 
Now that we are delivered from these ancient white devils, I would we should now talk of these of our time, which touch us nearer.  jerom. 
I think Theophrast willbe ready when thou wilt, to satisfy thine expectation.  Toby. 
And I will also be ready to hear when it pleaseth him.  Theo. 
Then we shall all quickly agree. But before we end this talk, I will show you one ancient example of a Devil, 
A Devil both white and black.  that was both black and white, who hath many fellows in these days.  Toby. 
What Devil is that?  Theo. 
It is julian the Apostata. When this julian became Emperor, and had renounced the Christian Religion, which he before professed, he went about with all his might, wholly to abolish it, and to establish that Heathen religion, which he followed. And because he knew by experience, that the tyrants before him, profited nothing with their persecutions against the Christians, but rather increased that Religion, which they sought to abolish, then diminished it, he took a contrary way to them much more dangerous than theirs. Wherein we may rightly say, that the black devils of his predecessors tyrants, 
julian's devil converted into a white devil.  converted themselves into a white devil, in the person of this Apostata, for he went not about to pursue the christians, & with cruel persecution, torment and death, to make them renounce their faith, and to embrace his Paganism, but rather to win them by flattery, worldly honour, riches, gifts and presents. And therefore at the first, he entreated them very courteously, 
Tripart. hist. lib. 6.  and commanded that none should torment or trouble th●m, or constrain them to do Sacrifice to their Gods, but suffer them quietly to live with their own Religion.  Toby. 
That was a wonderful subtlety for, 
allurings of julian to deceive Christians.  many may sooner be overcome by such means, then by persecution and torment.  Theo. 
Thou mayest be sure that he won many by that practice. For the ambitious, glorious, and covetous, which desired honours, riches, and offices in the court, and to be heaved up into high dignity, sought to please him, perceiving that they were most made of that most favoured his religion, and were farthest from the Christian religion, which this Apostata hated to the death. But notwithstanding all these practices, he could not win so many by this means as he desired: for, by reason that there were many Christian Emperors before him, since Constantine the great, the number of the Christians was greatly increased, in so much that julian's Court was full, and the greatest part of his officers & servants were Christians. For this cause he used a more subtle craft and dangerous sleight, 
Christians in julian's Court  to deceive the most virtuous, & those which most feared God, and his religion. For he knew that good life and holy conversation would much move the people. And because the Pastor's, and Ministers of the Christians, were then of very upright life and holy conversation, and that by their example they stirred and drew men to their religion, and to fellow their doctrine, and also confirmed those more which had already received their religion, he went about to reform the state and lives of the Priests and religious men of the Paynims, 
Another subtlety of julian to make men have the better devotion to the heathen religion.  and their Gods & Idols, after the example of the Pastors and Ministers of the Christians. And this he did, to the end that the Christians should cast the Gentiles in teeth, with the wicked life of their Priests and Ministers, neither that the Gentiles being offended therewith, should be moved to forsake their heathenish religion, and become Christians. For they that have any spark of the fear of God, yea the very superstitious and Idolaters, mislike their Pastors and Ministers of what religion so ever they be, when they perceive their wicked and vicious life. For even the wicked themselves, 
The offence of the evil life of Pastors  look for better life than their own at their hands whom they esteem to be their guides, & to have administration of things which they think holy. And therefore they require of such persons a straighter and uprighter life than their own or any other. For they think they have more liberty than they that ought to be the example & rule of their life. Wherefore, they can not suffer that to be in them, which they can well suffer in other that are not of that calling, yea and in themselves, as we see the Papists at this day. For, not only the most superstitious & demute of them, but also the least religious, the greatest mockers of all religion, the most vicious and unruly of all, are sore offended with their Priests and Monks, and cry out against them, that they lead an offensive life, and a life that seems not to be according to their profession. And therefore there are many of both sorts, that care neither for them, their calling, nor religion. But because they can not judge of true religion, 
Hypocrisy in stead of holy life.  upright life, and good conversation, according to the rule of God's word, they are contented with the life of their Priests and Monks, so that there be no notable or apparent vice in them. It sufficeth them, if they have only an outward show of discretion and holiness, which they take principally to consist in superstition, hypocrisy, ceremonies, counterfeiting, & outward works: and not in true Christian virtues. And therefore, whosoever can best play the superstitious hypocrite, pleaseth them best, and is best esteemed amongst them. And this knew julian the Apostata very well. 
A reformation of julian in the heathens Priests.  Therefore, he commanded the priests religions and Ministers of the heathens God, to enforce themselves at the least to counterfeit as nigh as they could the life and manners of the Pastors and Ministers of the Christians: and that they should use themselves so, that there might be no apparent or notable crime in them, 
Tripart. hist. lib. 6. cap. 28.  which might make the people mislike them, their ministery, or the Religion of the Gods which they served. Wherefore, he forbadd them to go to any common plays, to Taverns, or to meddle with any filthy practice, 
Popish reformation.  or any unhonest art not seemly for their calling. To be short, he made such a reformation among these fellows, as the Pope and his make commonly among themselves for their Priests, Monks, and the rest of their Clergy. For when they see that every man crieth out at their pride, pomp, bravery, pleasures, ditties, and at their great excess in all things, at their Epicurian life, given over to all filthiness and enormity more than any other, they make a show of reformation and creation of such vice and horrible sin as reigneth amongst them, which they can in no wise excuse: but in the mean while, they never come to the principal matter, but are contented to dazzle the eyes of the poor ignorant with a feigned appearance of slight reformation, as in apparel, in pomps, in meats, & excessive braveness, in hawks, in horses, in pastimes, and in the observation of their Ceremonies, and such like things: and as for the most notable and infamous vices which they can not forbear nor correct, it sufficeth for reformation thereof to work secretly, and not so openly and commonly that all the world perceive it, and point at them, and that the most vicious, unruly, and most offensive themselves, be not offended with their offensive life. In this mean while, there is no talk at all of their false doctrine, nor of the abuse in their Religion, and in their whole state, but only in these things which are so evident and intolerable, that there is no man can bear with it, no man so blunt or blind, that can not perceive it, and that knoweth it not, and openly condemneth it.  Toby. 
Then all their reformation is none other thing, but only an hypocrisy, which serveth them for a cause, the better to cover their filthiness before men, to th'end that their estate be not descried, nor defamed.  Theo. 
This reformation is of less appearance, than the reformation of julian the Apostata. For, he did not only reform the priests of his religion, as I have said, but he did also show himself to be a very good Emperor, liberal, and charitable to the poor. 
The Philosophical life of julian.  For, his life would shame a great many now adays. I say not only Emperors, kings, and Christian princes, Pope's Cardinals and prelate's of the Church, which are more worldly, than the world itself, but even Monks, hermits, and the most reformed, and the straightest livers of them all, though their appearance of holiness be never so great. 
Tripart. hist. lib. 6.  For, first he was very well learned in all human learning and very studious, so that he was always at his book, or otherwise occupied in some virtuous and honest exercise, at the least in outward show. And therefore he loved wise men, 
julian's court Tripart. hist. lib. 6.  but principally Philosophers, with whom his court was ever furnished. Since julius Caesar's time, there was no emperor but he, that could recite in the Senate or council, the orations or declarations of his own making. As for his court, and the rest of his life, he lived more like a sober and continent Philosopher, then like an Emperor or worldly prince: & therefore he put away his Cooks, using such sober and simple diet, that he needed them not. Yea, he had no Barber of his own, for he said one Barber could serve a great many men. To be short he lived a Monkish life. 
The Monkish bringing up of julian.  For, he was taught and brought up in his youth with Monks who in those days, were not so sore degenerated from the manners of th'ancient Monkery, as they are at this present: But their life had great appearance of holiness. julian therefore, had a smatch of his youthly instruction and bringing up, which served him the better to colour his Idolatry. For this devil profited so well in that Monkish school, that he had good skill in dissembling. To be short, 
The dissimulation of julian.  he lead such a life, as if there were any at this day: I will not speak of princes, but of prelate's of the popish church (who ought to be the light of other) that should live such a life, in such conversation and such knowledge, men would esteem them for holy men, yea, they would worship them as young little gods. For, after his wife died, 
The continence of julian.  he never married again, but lived in continence all the rest of his life, neither was there at any time, any whoredom perceived in him. Furthermore, he had no servants about him, to maintain pleasure or pastime but only to serve his necessity. And as touching his liberality & charity, 
The foundation of Hospitals by julian.  whereof I spoke before, he erected hospitals, after the th'example of the Christians, aswell for wayfaring strangers, as for those of the countries: and commanded such to be erected, throughout all his cities. And gave to them great revenues, both of corn, wine, money, and all other things necessary for the maintenance of the charges thereof: but chief he gave great living to the poor, that kept the temple of the Gods. He commanded also, 
The charity of the ancient Christians.  that the heathens should make collections for the relief of the poor, as christians did. For he said, that it should be great shame for them, if those wicked Galileans, which from time to time had suffered so great hindrance and losses, and so great persecution for their religion, should be so liberal & charitable, that not only they should sustain the poor, which were of their own religion, but also should succour & help both jews and Gentiles, which were their enemies, and that he which had the Empire of the whole world, and they that followed his religion, should be more niggards towards their own, than the Galileans were to strangers, yea, to their mortal enemies. And therefore he thought it great shame, both for him and his Religion (which he would exalt above the christian religion) to be overeome in liberality and largeness, by the Christians, whom he called Galileans in despite and mockery, (because Christ and his Apostles came out of the country of Galilee, which was the most despised even amongst the jews: as it appeareth by divers places of the Gospel, and specially by S. Ihon.) And therefore he named jesus Christ with the same name, calling him Galilean in despite and mockery.  Toby. 
For, 
Ihon. 1. 7.  aught that I can perceive, all this liberality of julian, 
Christians called Galileans.  that thou hast talked of, proceeded not of true liberality, nor true charity, that he gave to the poor and needy, but for envy of the Christians, and spite that he had, that their charity and liberality, did so much honour their religion, drew men to it, and dishonour the paynim religion. And therefore he would not, that their religion should be less honoured in this matter, than the Christian religion. And by that I perceive, that the christians in those days, had to do with a subtle Devil: who could cunningly change himself from a black Devil into a white. But I would wish, if we can now have Angels in stead of devils, that at least we had many such devils in that point, but principally amongst you that brag so much of the reformation of the Gospel. For, seeing that you hate the Pope, & prelate's of the Church, Priests, Monks, and all the Religion which you call Popish, and that ye cry so much against them: I would ye would (in spite of them, 
The example of julian to the shame of Christians.  and in shame of them) become more liberal and charitable than ye be: and that ye had more care for the poor that are amongst you, than ye have: and that ye would so honour your religion, that ye might keep it from blame, and that those which you call Papists, should not surmount you in liberality and charity, as julian did to honour his religion, in despite of Christ, and the Christian religion. For, if liberality & charity were as great in these days among you, as in old time it was among ancient christians: ye should have as great a vantage over your enemies, as those good Christians had over the Gentiles. But you care not for any such honour. How sayest thou Eustace, is not this true?  Eust. 
Though they brag never so much of their religion, 
Charity required in those that brag of the Gospel.  and show themselves very well affected to it, and desire greatly the advancing and exalting thereof, and the abolishing of ours, nevertheless, their devotion is not so great, that they become one penny the more liberal for it, neither is their charity so great, that they forget any jot of their covetousness, which is greater, more greedy and insaciably in them, than ever it was, or is among us, whom they call Papists, or amongst our Priests, Monks, and Prelates, against whom they cry out, as though all charity were quenched in them, and that there were no covetousness in all the world, but theirs. For, so far are these new Christians, from giving any thing of theirs, to the relief of the poor, that they even take away that, which others have given them heretofore. Yea, so far are they from erecting, or giving any thing to Hospitals, that they will not maintain those, which were founded by their predecessors to their hands. There are many hospitals, which heretofore have been governed by priests, which were much better governed then, than they be now by these new Church reformers. For masters of Hospitals are many times made, as Bailiffs, and other officers be made, not so much to minister justice, & to execute the office committed to them, as to fill their purses, and to make them rich. Is not this a godly reformation, to make masters of hospitals, not such as are meet to govern the goods of the poor, but such as can shift for themselves, and make the poor fast.  Toby. 
What answerest thou to that Theophast? me thinks Eustace speaketh reason.  Theo. 
I would he had less reason so to say, but yet he taketh every thing at the worst. For he looketh so much at those that do not their duty, that he forgetteth to look on those that do it. But put the case that there were greater disorder in this matter on our behalf then there is. I would the Papists (whom Eustace now defendeth) would so envy us, that in spite of us, they would become more charitable and honest then either they or we be yet, and that they would surmount us in all virtues. But though they be holden for never so zealous in their Religion, yet I fear not that they will so dishonour us, as I have wished.  Toby. 
I think that neither they nor you are so spitefully bend, to go about to dishonour one an other after this sort, how spitful so ever ye be one against an ot●er in other things. But we will leave such occasions in which some will whiten themselves in blacking other, and talk we again of julian the Apostata, whose story thou haste not yet ended. Thou hast already told, how he transfigured himself into a white devil divers ways, but thou haste not yet declared, how the white Devil become black.  Theo. 
When he saw, that by all the means that he could devise, he could not abolish the Christian Religion, and establish and augument the Heathen Religion, but that contrariwise it increased more and more, he was marvelous angry, and in such rage, as he could not forbear, but in the end manifestly to open it. And here upon he forbade the Christians, the reading of the Heathen poets, Orators, and Philosophers: to the end that they might not allege thelm for authority against the Heathens. For, he used to say: the Christians do prick us and thrust us through, with our own Fathers, because they did confound the Heathens with their own books: And whipped them with their own Rods, as the faithful at this day do whip the Papists. For, if we had none other books but their own, we should have sufficient to condemn them all of false religion and abuse. Wherefore if they would do well, they should rather forbid the faithful to read their books, than the holy scripture. For, the dishonour is the greater unto them, if they be condemned by their own writings, & by such books as they make of greater authority, than the scripture itself, for that they will rule the doctrine thereof according to the contents of the same books.  Toby. 
But did not julian the Apostata otherwise persecute the christians, then to forbid them the reading of these books.  Theo. 
He could not wholly forbear persecuting of them, and would have used more cruelty, if he had durst. But his devil was sore troubled in this. For, when he would have played the black devil, and have spewed out his swelling venom, two things hindered him: The one was that, whereof I spoke before, that is, that he saw that it profited little or nothing to return to that first fury, wherewith he used of old time to stir and inflame ancient tyrants, to such cruel persecution against the Christians. For, he had often proved full sore against his will. O how the flesh and constancy of Christians had repulsed the sharp points of the cutting sword of tyrants, quenched their furies, & vanquished all their rage and fury. On the other side, this Devil saw, that in julian's time the number of the Christians was so great, that julian could not use grievous and cruel persecution amongst them, without his hindrance, and great danger of his person and Empire. For, his court, yea and his camp were full of them. Yea how many Lords, Captains, and Officers had he in his Court that were Christians? amongst whom Valentinian that was Emperor after him, was in great authority. Who so little feared in julian's time to declare the honour & reverence that he bear to the Christian religion, and how he hated julian's Paganism, and that entering on a day in julian's company into the Temple of Fortune, (whom the paynim held for a Goddess) he struck a Priest on the ear which sprinkled Holy water at the entry of the temple, because he threw a few drops on his Cloak: and told him that he had spoiled him, and not purged him. For the paynim believed as our Papists now a days do, that sins were purged away by Holy water. Seeing then that Valentinian durst be so hardy in the presence of julian himself his Emperor & Prince, julian had not so little understanding but he did well foresee and consider, what trouble he should bring not only his Court in, but also his Empire, if his devil should become a black devil and tyrannous persecutor. Wherefore, he was constrained to countefaite the white Devil, & dissemblingly to let many matters slip, which nevertheless were great grief and heart breaking to him: But he was fame to be patiented perforce. And when he saw that the Christian religion prospered more and more, when they had any release without persecution, this white Devil forgetting the mask wherewith he was disguised, falling into a great rage, came to his natural and first occupation, and became a black Devil as before. And then knowing not at which end to begin, but perceiving all things went from evil to worse, being at his wits end, he knew not what part to play.  Toby. 
Verily he had a troublesome part to play, and not without cause, for he had to do with a very strong adversary, when he had to do with God. For were he white Devil, black Devil, or transformed into what Devil he would, God knew him well enough what mask so ever he took on, and knew the way how to overthrow all his enterprises and practises, and to confound and overcome him.  Theo. 
There are many now adays in the world that play the same part, and amongst them many that are, Apostates as julian was: for they have had sufficient knowledge of the Gospel, to be condemned with him: But these fellows are as much troubled to play those parts that they play as julian and his Devil was. For they see that it is impossible to find water enough to quench the fire of the Gospel which is kindled round about them on every side. They see there is no hope to quench it by their fires, as heretofore they have thought. For experience hath taught them, that one fire quencheth not an other, but rather inflameth it the more. They see also into what danger they are like to bring themselves, if they continue such Tarmagantes and play the black Devils as they have done heretofore. And therefore now they beg in to play the white Devils, more than they have done, & are contented to confess that their cruel and rigorous manner was not the best nor surest way for them. For this cause they are contented to go more gently to work, and to hide their black devils horns more than they had wont, till they see occasion to show them again, more safely, & according as their shall see their strength increase or diminish, and as their desired means shall be granted or debarred them. For look they never so smooth, it is easy to be judged what they pretend, and that they counterfeit the white devils, but only because they cannot be black Devils, or such as may bear the whole sway.  Toby. 
I understand now what thou meanest, let them play their parts as they can, seeing they can not as they would: and in the mean while make thou ready to show us farther of white devils, as thou promisest, before thou toldest us of julian the Apostata, and of those devils parts that he played.   

¶ The third Dialogue called White devils.  
THE third Dialogue is called White devils, for the reasons mentioned before in the second Dialogue.  
First, there is talk of the confession that the devils made of jesus Christ, likewise of their worshipping of him, and of the complaints that tbei made of him, and the agreement that they desired to have with him.  
Of good devils, and the manifesting of the possessed by means of the Gospel, of their accusing and complaining of him, and of the fair shows that they have.  
Of such as make the Gospel serve for their gain, and can not bear the yoke of jesus Christ.  
Of good Shepherds and hirelings, and how either of them dischargeth their calling, and of their estimation amongst men.  
Of the administration of Church goods, and the abuse thereof, and of the fault, that the wi●ked burden the true ministers of God withal, by means thereof.  
Of the enemies, of the discipline of the Church.  
Of the want that we have of good Ministers, and the contempt that we have them in.  
Of the tyranny used to the Church, and of our changing of old Popery into new.  
Of Clarcke Popes, and Lay Popes.  
Of the discord and division that is among those that brag ●f the reformation of the Gospel.  
Of the changing of men's traditions, into like or worse.  
Of the continual discord between God and the Devil, and between their children and servants.  
Of the Church mingled with good and evil.  
Of the persecution and rebellion of those which say they be of the Church, against the true ministers of the same.  
Of the foundation as well of the Popedom of long gowns, as of short gowns.  
Of the evil reformation of the Church.  
Of Magistrates abusing their Offices.  
Of Priests and Monks transformed.  
Of the true reformation of the Church.  
Of the great evil that proceedeth of the ignorance of many, and of the diversity thereof.  
Of false reporters and tale tellers, that hinder the true discipline of the Church.  
Of the e●ill judgement of the wicked against the true Ministers of the Lord.  
Of those that always desire respite to come to talk, and of the fault in too long bearing with the disorders in the Church.  
Of the hypocrisy of those that seek excuses to hinder the discipline of the Church  
Of the obedience that all men own to God.  
Of the o●de and new Gadarens, and of the Hogs of each of them.  
Of the true mean to keep or drive away jesus Christ.  
Of the divers fear of God, and the divers knowledge of the Gospel.  
Of the causes that hinder many, from following of the Gospel.  
Of those that are afraid of Christ's coming, and of the vain fear that tyrants have, lest the Gospel should make them lose their Kingdoms and Lordships.   

¶ The third Dialogue called white devils.  Toby, Jerome, Theophrast, Eustace. Toby. 
seeing we are all agreed to talk of white Devils, now that we have talked of black devils.  Eust. 
And I am ready to hear what thou wilt say, touching them.  jerom. 
Before Theophrastus' enter into this matter, I think good to remember one point, which I forgot, when I talked of the difference, which we ought to make, between black and white Devils.  Toby. 
What is that?  jerom. 
It is, that as there is difference, between black & white Devils, there are also divers kinds of white devils. For as some devils are blacker one than another, so some are likewise whiter one than another.  Toby. 
I think thou meanest thereby, that some of them have fairer show of goodness than other some have, and can better counterfect the Angels.  jerom. 
That is without doubt, and therefore in comparing some with other some, they may seem to be black Devils, which otherwise seem to be white.  Toby. 
I do not well understand, what thou meanest.  jerom. 
I will make thee understand it by example. Seeing the Papists, which resist the Gospel, be named Christians as well as other, they may be counted white Devils, in comparison of jews, Turks and paynim, which declare themselves to be open enemies, both of Christ & his Gospel: but if thou compare them with those, that brag of the title and reformation of the Gospel, the persecuting Papists will seem black devils, when other shall seem white. For, they be both false Christians, but th'one hath a fairer show than th'other, for he covereth himself with the cloak of the Gospel, & the reformation of the same.  Toby. 
I understand thee very well, but let us now hear what Theophrastus hath to say.  Theo. 
The evangelists say not only, 
Mark. 5.  that those possessed whereof we spoke before came & presented themselves before Christ, 
Luke. 8.  but S. Mark and S. Luke say farther, 
Matth. 8.  that he of whom they writ, fell on his knees before Christ, 
The devils worshipping and confessing jesus Christ.  & worshipped him. And furthermore, all the three evangelists which have written this story, witness, that both these possessed confessed openly, that jesus Christ was the Son of God, yea, of the highest God.  Toby. 
They made almost as good a confession of jesus Christ, 
Ihon. 6.  as saint Peter and his fellows did. 
Matth. 8.   Theo. 
But they did it not with such a heart, nor to such an end, for that they were devils, which spoke it by the mouths of these possessed.  Toby. 
I think no less. But what was the cause thinkest thou, that they did so? for the Devil hateth none so much as jesus Christ, and feareth nothing more than that jesus Christ should be esteemed and acknowledged among men, for the true son of God, as these devils confessed.  Theo. 
The Devil honoured not jesus Christ, only by the mouths of these possessed, but also by other, of which Saint Mark and Saint Luke make express mention. 
Mark. 1.  They say first, 
Luke. 8.  that in the Synagogue of Capernaum, there was a man which had an evil Spirit, that cried out when he perceived jesus Christ, and said amongst other things, I know that thou art the holy one of God.  Toby. 
Wherefore did the Devil call jesus Christ, the holy one of God?  Theo. 
It is as much to say, as that he knew jesus Christ, to be the holy one of holy ones, 
Ihon. 17.  that is to say, the true son of God, 
Acts. 16.  whom the Father hath sent to sanctify mankind: we read also in the Acts of the Apostles, 
The Soothsayer of Philip.  that Macedonia in the town of Philippi, there was a maid that had a spirit of soothsaying, which gather masters much gain with soothsaying, she followed Paul and his fellows, and cried saying: these men are the servants of the most high God, which show unto us the way of salvation, and this did she many times.  Toby. 
This Devil which spoke in this sothsaiing maid, made no mention of jesus Christ, in the words which he used to Paul and his fellows.  Theo 
Though he named not jesus Christ by name, yet he did him the greatest honour that might be. For, praising the Apostles and servants of jesus Christ, as he praiseth them, he declareth their doctrine to be of God, and to bring true salvation unto man. Now, seeing the Apostles taught, that this salvation was communicated to man, by jesus Christ, and by none other: this evil Spirit plainly confessed, that jesus Christ was the saviour of the world, the true son of God, and generally all the doctrine contained in the Evangelists, which he approved, in the approving of the Ministers of the same, because they preached it.  Toby. 
Thou haste not yet told me, 
The confession and constrained prayers of devils.  why these evil spirits made such confession, and why they showed this honour to jesus Christ, whom the devil goeth about with might and main, always to dishonour.  Theo. 
There are many causes that moved them so to do. First, when the Devil must appear before God, he is like a transgressor, that cometh before his Prince and judge. Who, how wicked and rebellious so ever he be, is constrained spite of his teeth to acknowledge him his Prince & judge, & to confess the truth unto him of all his misbehaviour. For, if he will not confess it willingly, the rack shall make him confess it whether he will or no. So these devils which were in these possessed, were in the presence of Christ, not only as transgressors, which are brought before the judge, to have sentence of condemnation, but as transgressors, which the judge himself took with the dee●e doing, and which are presently condemned, because they can not deny the fault, that they were taken withal. For jesus Christ took these d●●●●s exercising the greatest cruelty that they could, on these persons whom they had possessed, and seducing the people as much as was possible. And because they are perpetual enemies of God, & are taken with the deed doing, and cannot resist his power, they are constrained by force to honour him, & show him homage, and to acknowledge and confess him to be such as he is They do it likewise to flatter him, because they knew well enough that it boots not to resist him by strength, for he is stronger than they.  Toby. 
Me thinketh that these words aagree very well with the other words which the Devils used to jesus Christ▪ For, they cried? 
The complaint of devils.  What hast thou to do with us jesus the Son of God? 
Math. 8.  Art thou come hitherto torment us before the time? 
Mark. 5.  We pray thee and charge thee by God, 
Luk. 8.  that thou torment us not. It is also written, that they besought jesus very instantly, that he would not send them out of the country, nor into the bottomless pit, but if he would ●ast them out of the possessed, that he would give them leave to go amongst the heard of Swine that fed thereby, and to remain amongst them.  Theo. 
The possessed of which S. Mark and S. Luke make mention, which was in the Synagogue of Capernaum, cried also: Oh what hast thou to do with us jesus of Nazareth? Art thou come to destroy us?  Toby. 
By these words we may easily judge, 
Mark. 5.  that the worshipping confession and prayer that these devils made, 
Luke. 8.  was but by constraint, and therefore proceeded not of any good will either of the possessed, or of the devils that were in them, but by the power of God, which enforced and constrained them so to say. They also did it, to obtain gentler entreating at jesus hand, than they deserved.  Theo. 
It well appeareth, that they know jesus Christ, but they will not obey him, but resist him as much as they can. And though they be not able to resist him, 
The devils desire atonement.  yet they will, yet they will fight against him: but perceiving that they be too weak and overcome, they give him fair words, they beseech him as their master. And here it should seem that their fury and rage were subdued, but it is but in show and by force. They complain of jesus Christ as if he did them wrong, or that he used them more uncourteously than they deserved, and before their time be come. To be short●, they desire nothing but peace and agreement.  Toby. 
And notwithstanding, seeing that the Devil is author of war and strife▪ peace can not greatly please him.  Theo. 
Also he desireth not peace for that it pleaseth him, but only to escape the hands of jesus Christ. For he is 〈◊〉 th● enemy which being beaten & overcome, desireth to get out of his enemy's hands that hath overcome him, that afterward he may more strongly and cruelly war against him.  Toby. 
It is no marvel though the devil use this subtlety and dissimulation: for there are divers men that 〈◊〉 the same many times, not only towards m●n, but towards GOD himself. Wherefore, in my judgement, we may well compare them to these possessed, & make them their fellows.  Theo. 
Tell me thy mind more plainly.  Toby. 
I have known divers, that in time of health & prosperity, have not only given themselves over to the greatest filthiness and mischief that is possible for any man to commit, but also have openly withstood God, as if they would willingly defi● him, and pluck him out of his celestial Throne. But afterward when God hath laid his hand on them, either by grievous and dangerous sicknesses, or by some other misery and mishap, so, that the danger was extreme, they then became good Devils, 
Good Devils when they could do no more harm.  like to those of whom we talk. Thou never sawest more gentle, more tractable, nor more devout people in outward show. They are the best Catholics that may be found. They yield, they promise to become the honestest men in the world. They will never do more amiss, but will live a straighter and holier life, them holy hermits themselves. But when it is once past, and the danger escaped, they forget all that they have promised, and like wild beasts that have got their verkes out of the collar, they return to their first nature, and become worse than ever they were.  Theo. 
There is nothing that more manifesteth those sorts of Devisses and possessed, 
The Gospel manifesteth devils.  than the pure preaching of the word of God: it is then principally, that they use those words that the Devils used which jesus Christ cast out, whereof we talked even now. For there are many (but chief) Priests, Monks, and other principal upholders of Antichrist, & of his sinagouge, which is the Romish Court and Church,) which many times play the pranks of this Devil. For they resist the Gospel of jesus Christ, and those that maintain and follow the same with might and main, with fire and sword, and by all other means that they can imagine and invent. It is them that cry out against jesus Christ, and say: What hast thou to do with us: why art thou come to torment us before our time? Suffer us in peace and quietness, we have nothing to say to thee. I think Jerome, that thou hast often heard, the enemies and persecutors of the Gospel, use such like words.  jerom. 
It is ordinary with the wicked enemies of God, 
The wicked accusing of the Gospel.  to lay all the fault on the Gospel, and on those that faithfully favour and follow the fame, according to their duty, as if they were rebels, fraymakers, seditious, and troublers of common peace and quietness.  Theo. 
We have manifest examples of this that thou speakest, 
Luke. 23.  as well in the Prophets and Apostles, 
Acts. 27.  as in Christ himself, for these have all been burdened, with the self same accusation.  jerom. 
The like may be said of all the Martyrs, and other faithful Christians, which have lived at all times in the world. But to return to our talk, of those devils and possessed, I myself have heard some ere now, that have fa●ed to the true Ministers of the Gospel, whom God had sent to declare his truth: who the Devil sent ye hither: 
The complaint of the new possessed.  What have ye to do here? Why ●ary ye not in your own country, ye runagates: what have you to do with us? We have nothing to do with you, we care not for you. Why suffer you us not in quietness and peace? But I remember a pretty saying of a Curate once, to a Preacher that began first to preach the Gospel in that country.  Theo. 
Why, what said he?  jerom. 
Why came ye so soon, 
The manner of getting of goods by Priests and Monks.  if ye had tarried a while longer, all had been ours.  Theo. 
What meant he by that?  jerom. 
He meant that if these new preachers, had not come so soon, and have preached then that Gospel, which so sore warreth against the Pope and all his Priests and Monks: they would in small time with their false doctrine and Religion, with their abuse and su●tle practices, easily have scraped and gathered all the goods in the world to themselves, and have left little or nothing to oaths.  Theo. 
He perceived it very well: and therefore we may liken him and his fellows, to those devils which cry: Why art thou come to torment us before our time?  jerom. 
These kind of fellows that say, Qui nostra toll●t inimicus est: he that taketh away ours, is our enemy. They regard not whether they have gotten the goods that they possess, well or evil, wherefore they esteem all those to be enemies, 
To whom the goods of the Church belong.  that in reason demand restitution of them, and declare that it belongeth not to them, but that they have stolen it from the church, and poor members of jesus Christ. And because they have gotten these great riches which they, their parents and friends enjoy, 
The cloak wherewith the Prophets of Antichrist cover them.  and whereby they be maintained, and do get daily more and more, under title of their false priesthood, Monkery, and false religion, they cry out against those that condemn their estate, as if they were murderers. For they know that they cannot be long maintained, if that collar or mask be taken away, wherewith they mask and cover all their falsehood, abuse, and blasphemy.  Theo. 
It is very hard for simple & ignorant men, 
The colour that the devils complaint hath against jesus Christ.  to know the wrong, that these enemies of the truth, do to the true servants of God, by reason of the Devilish subtlety that they use, and their shamelessness not unlike these Devils, that complained of jesus Christ: and asked him, what he ha● to do with them, as if he had offered them great wrong, and warred against them without reason. For, as for them, it seemeth that they have nothing to say, but that jesus Christ should suff●●● them in peace and quietness: and therefore the fault is not in them, as they say, that there is no agreement between jesus Christ and them, if jesus Christ did not trouble them, and were cause of all the strife.  jerom. 
I am afraid if thou hold on, 
What is first to be considered in all controversy.  that thou wilt become the devils attorney, for it seemeth by thy talk, that thou givest a very good colour of reason to their cause.  Theo. 
If we should only regard the complaint of the devils, without considering the principal cause, whereupon this disagreeing is grounded, it might seem that jesus Christ was in great fault. But we must consider, who began the strife.  jerom. 
Seeing that God is the God of peace, 
1. Cor. 14.  and not of strife, 
Phil. 4.  and the Devil is a murderer from the beginning, 
Ihon. 8.  it is not to be doubted, but that the Devil is the author of all the discord and strife.  Theo. 
I put the case that a whorehunter or haude, 
The complain● of those that do wrong against those that receive wrong.  steal away an honest man's wife, and the husband cometh, and demandeth his wife of this ruffian, that hath stolen her away, and revileth this ruffian or haude, for the wrong that he hath done him, and goeth to law with him, whereby there ariseth great strife, I would ask of thee who were in the fault? Either the husband, who hath had this great wrong, or the Ravisher, who hath played him this wicked prank.  jerom. 
This whorehunter or ba●ed, hath as much reason to complain and 〈◊〉 angry, as hath a thief or robber, which is called to account of thefts and robberies which he hath committed, and which is called to judgement for the same.  Theo. 
It is certain, that such fellows would have nothing to do, with those that they have wronged, neither with such judges, as should call them to account; and pronounce sentence against them.  jerom. 
But nevertheless it followeth not, but that they which have been thus wronged, have just occasion to pursue their right. Neither doth it follow, but that judges and Magistrates, do very well execute their office, in condemning such according to their deserts. And though they cry out against those which sue them: we have nothing to do with you, they may well be answered: but we have to do with you. For if the wicked and guilty might be quit, and escape the gallows with such complaints and cries, they would all escape. And if there were reason in these complaints, the judges and not the guilty aught to be condemned, they that demand justice, and not they which have committed the fact and deserved correction and punishment. Wherefore the common proverb is well verified in such, as both offer wrong and complain, that the lamb hath troubled the wolves water, & he can both bite & whine.  Theo. 
This is the greatest wickedness in the world, and yet it is daily used against jesus Christ and his Servants, whensoever they have to do with the wicked, and reprove them of their faults, and go about to bring them under the yoke of the Lord. This is the cause that they cry out against the Gospel: This is the means that they trouble the world with. 
The cause why the wicked complain of the Gospel.  This is the cause that every man crieth against the servants of God: Let us accuse them of felony. What sayest thou Toby?  Toby. 
You have talked of Priests and Monks, and such other which you call Papists, how they complain as sore wronged, because they go about to reform them, according to the word of God, but have you no such possessed among you? you yt●●unt so much of the reformation of the Gospel? But I promise you I will not accuse you any farther in this matter, but will leave it to Eustace, who shall go forward with it▪  Eust. 
As for me, 
They which abuse the Gospel making it serve to their own gain and affection.  I know many, which liked the Gospel well, when in the beginning their Preachers cried against the abuse that they said was in the Romish church, and in Priests and Monks. They liked well also, that the goods of the church should be taken from Priests and Monks, to have the government of them themselves, under colour that the Priests and Monks abused them, and that they should be put to better use, but God knoweth how evil they are bestowed upon many, & in many places.  Toby. 
The worst is, 
They that can not suffer to be reproved by the Ministers of the Gospel.  that those which have not done herein as they ought, and which daily forget themselves more and more, cannot nowadays so much as suffer the Preachers to admonish and reprove them, and to stir them to bestow it where they ought to bestow it, according to the order and discipline that heretofore hath been used in the Primitive Church even since the Apostles tyme.  Eust. 
Therefore we may well say of them, as Theophrastus and Jerome said even now of our Priests and Monks. For I doubt not, but if they were called to account for the bestowing of such goods, and if it were taken out of their hands, as it was taken from our Priests & Monks, and given to such as should better▪ bestow it, they would take pepper in the nose, and fall to playing that devils part whereof you spoke even now in good earnest. I am sure they would at the least play the part as well as you said that our Priests, Monks, and their adherentes played it, when it stood them upon.  Toby. 
Yea, some of them play that part very well, against their own Preachers, but I know not by what means. For first there are many that are so meal mouthed, that they dare scarce open their mouths to speak one word that should displease in reproving their faults. Some other better knowing their office, & less esteeming their belly, dare boldly reprove the faults of ●hose that do amiss, and specially in the bestowing of the goods of the poor, but yet they deal not so sharply with them as they ought. For they use them more favourably than they used the Bishops, Priests and Monks. There is no talk of taking away the administration from them, but only to correct such manifest faults, as every man doth plainly see.  Eust. 
If they can not suffer to be admonished and reproved so favourably as thou sayest, how would they suffer their Preachers to use them, as they have used our Priests and Monks in like matter?  Toby. 
Thou mayest will think, that if Priests and Friars went about to defend their cause with fire and faggot, these fellows would not suffer their sword to rust in the like cause, which they are well able to do▪ if they were put to it, but the best 〈◊〉, 
hirelings & good shepherds.  they have no great cause to fear their Preachers therein. For first, ther are more flatterers and hirelings which will dis●semble men's faults and encourage them therein, then true preachers which will speak freely according to their office. Secondly, the Ministers are of very little power, and therefore there is no danger to be feared that way. Thirdly, I think that those which be of the best sort among them, desire the abuse only to be corrected, and that the goods may be employed and bestowed as they ought to be. And it is all one to them who do it, so it be done according to the order that the Church requireth.  Eust. 
Me thinks thou art become attorney for the preachers that thou speakest last of, for they that well allow the doctrine which they preach, 
A slander on the good Ministers of the Gospel touching the administration of the Church goods.  speak not so well for them as thou hast done, but contrariwise accuse them, and say: that they would have the administration of the Church goods in their own hands, to dispose as they think good, as Priests and Monks have done heretofore.  Toby. 
There is a common Proverb that saith: when a man will hang or kill a dog, he will make him believe that he is mad. So there are some that cannot abide such preachers as neither can nor will be dumb dogs as they would have them, but say madness to their charge, to make all men hate him, and to the end that they and their ministery might have the less authority. For, the lesser authority that the ministery and Ministers of the truth have, the greater liberty have Sacrilegers, thieves, and Extortioners, and all other wicked ones. And let the authority be once taken from these, they fear not the hirelings: 
Flattering Ministers.  for they are dumb Dogs, which will either bark or hold their peace for a sop, or morsel, or for a mess of hot broth, or a good bang with a staff. And to be short, they mark what either pleaseth or displeaseth their masters, to the end that they anger them not. Yea, and to please them the better, they join with them, to bark against those, with whom they ought to join, to hunt out the Wolf.  Eust. 
It is possible that these of whom thou speakest, have used the reformation of the Gospel (such as it is) chief to be fingering of Church goods. And because they have used the title of the Gospel to get it into their hands, therefore they use the Ministers that reprove them of the evil administration thereof (as they list, fearing lest they reprove them to the same end, that they themselves reproved our Priests and Monks: that is, to supply the same place, and enjoy the same goods.  Toby. 
It may be that there are such as thou speakest of, but I think there are many 〈◊〉 say otherwise then they think, and make this only a mean to put the Preachers to silence, accusing them of uproars, seditions, and to be busy fellows, & such as will take the authority & power of the Magistrates in hand: And therefore they lay to their charge that they be troublesome, and that if their undiscreet prating were not, all would be quiet enough: therefore they cry out that they should suffer them in peace, for they have nothing to say to them, so that no man have any thing to say unto them, for they have that they would have.  Eust. 
Then according to my first talk, we may place these (of whom thou now speakest) among the number of those possessed which complain of the rigour and wrong that jesus Christ showed unto them, as well as Theophrast and Jerome have placed of Priests and Monks.  Toby. 
I will not say against it, but there are other as well as the●e, which do the like: 
The enemies of the discipline of the Church.  when any thing is spoken of the observing of such discipline, as jesus Christ hath appointed, and his Apostles and Disciples, and all the true ancient Church have put in vr●, and practised according to the holy word of God. To be short, they can be contented to hear the preachers cry out against the wickedness of Priests and Monks, but in no wise they may not away to hear of their own. They would feign have a Gospel preached without repentance, & without amendment of life. They would have such liberty under title of the Gospel, as to be let lose to their own pleasures. They would be unburdened of the Pope's yoke (whom they call Antichrist,) but will not be burdened with Christ's yoke. They would be very well content, neither to have Priests nor Monks, for their finding was costly, and the restoring of Church goods very hard to hear of: And therefore are contented to have Ministers and Preachers, but not so many as they had Priests, for saving of charges in maintaining them: wherein they show themselves to be good husbands, but great hinderers to the poor flock of Christ, 
Lack of good Ministers of the Gospel.  which remain without such food, & such abundance as is necessary for them, and all for lack of such preachers & such number as is needful. But the worst is, 
The contempt of the Ministers of the Gospel.  that they would have our poor Ministers and Preachers heads under their girdles, as if they were their servants, and toss them from post to pillar at their pleasure. And if the Ministers will not do it, but if some of them (well understand their office,) use such sufficient honour unto them as they ought, to the end that jesus Christ and the ministery of his Church be not despised and dishonoured, strait ways they cry out, that such Ministers be both ambitious and rebels, and that they will take upon them the Magistrates office. To be short, if any Minister go about to bring in such discipline and reformation of the Church as the Gospel requireth, straight ways they say: Why come you hither to trouble us? Can not you live quietly yourselves, and suffer other to do so to? You would pluck the sword out of the Magistrates hand, but ye would be well swaddled with it for your labours. We have it by the haft, and you shall wring it from us by the edge if ye will needs have it.  Eust. 
For aught I can perceive, such fellows would neither have Priests, Monks, Preachers nor Ministers, to the end that no body might let them, but to know as they list.  Toby. 
I believe verily that there are such as thou speakest of▪ 
They that are content with outward show of religion only.  but because they see that they can not live without some form of religion, neither have any form of religion without some Ministers of what quality so ever they be: therefore they are constrained at the least to make some outward appearance. For they foresee well enough, that all the world would cry out on them, calling them Athistes and Epicures, & would lay to their charge, that they received not the reformation of the Gospel, such as it is, but only to scratch to themselves the Church goods under title of the same, and to use what liberty they list. Therefore they are contented to have Preachers to preach, so that they rub them not to hard on the gall. Again, there are other, which are contented to let them speak what they will, when they see that they can not stop their mouths, and also when they can not reprove and hinder them, but with great dishonour to themselves. But when the Ministers are earnest with them to live according to the doctrine preached, there gins the strife. And herein they be like to those Monks of whom the Proverb is said: Ring to Matins and spare not, but say Matins who list.  Eust. 
Me thinks these of whom thou speakest, commit the same fault that they burden the Pope, 
Change of Popedom.  Bishops, Priests, and Monks withal: for they accuse them of usurping the power of both sword, that is to say, both the spiritual and temporal sword: and that which they do, seemeth to me not much different, but only that where they accuse the Pope and his Churchmen of taking the temporal sword from the Magistrate, they themselves go about to take away the spiritual sword from the Church and Ministers of the same, in as much as they go about to rule them after their own fantasy. For if they take their ministers to be the true ministers of the Gospel, they ought to suffer them to execute the charge that God and the Church hath given them. If they go about either to take it from them, or to hinder them therein, they are tyrants both to the Church & Ministers of the same. Wherefore the Ministers have greater occasion to complain of them, than they have of their Ministers: for they need not greatly to fear, lest the ministers of the church set their feet on their throats, for that they have brought them so low, that in my simple judgement, it is not to be doubted.  Toby. 
Thou mayest also say, that if they be true Ministers, they will go about no such thing, though they might.  Eusta. 
I will leave to dispute, whether they be true ministers or no, for thou knowest mine opinion touching that: But for that they esteem them to be such, I have good occasion to say thus much against them. For if they hold them for such, then may the ministers justly complain of them, for taking away that spiritual sword of the Church, which God hath committed to them, aswell as they complain for taking away their sword. Contrariwise, if they hold not their ministers for the true ministers of God, why do they allow them? And why are those better welcome to them, which go about to please them in all things, like idle bells & hirelings, than they that go about to execute their charge, according to the commandment of the word of God? By this we may well perceive, to what end these fellows have received the Gospel, and how they use it to their gain. They cry out against the Pope, and yet they go about to set up such an oath among themselves, in that they do that, whereof they accuse the Pope and his. The difference is, 
Temporal Pope.  that where this is a spiritual Pope, they would make a Temporal Pope, who is more to be feared then that Pope which they condemn, if he once take root, and be admitted and maintained: But I will leave this talk, for it belongeth not to me. I leave the charge to those, whom it toucheth nearer than me: only touching this, because I fear me, lest the world fall in decay as fast this way, as ever it did, on the Pope, Priests, Monks, and romish Church side, according to our former talk.  Eusta. 
Theophrast and Jerome may not marvel, if I and such as I am, cannot follow the Religion and living, which they follow, considering that we see so great disorder and fault in those, which do most vaunt of that reformation, which they so much set out: for we perceive, that they cannot agree themselves. 
The division among those that brag of the reformation of the Gospel.  The Ministers are one against an other. And if they disagree together, they disagree worse with the Magistrates & people, and each of them accuseth other. And for my part, me thinks the Ministers that have forsaken the romish church, to set forward that reformation, which they now have, deserve to be used as they are. For in seeking to get the Magistrates and people's favour against the Pope, Priests and Monks, they have so despised the state of Priesthood, and ministery of the Church, and so magnified the state of Magistrates, that they now feel the fruits thereof. They thought to set the Magistrates and people, against the Pope and his Church men, but they have now set them against themselves. For they now drink of the same cup, that they gave other to drink of. They thought they should bring a great enterprise to pass, if they could drive out the Priests and Monks, to set those in their steed, 
Magistrates which usurp authority over the Church.  whom they have now placed. They thought it a goodly reformation in the church, to abolish all the Cannons and Decrres, with the good statutes, which the ancient Fathers and Doctors had ordained, to maintain good discipline in the Church. They have put all into the Magistrates hands, and have made them masters of the church. It is no marvel, though they will not only maintain that, which they have in possession, but also encroach farther, to be out of the subjection of all discipline. Yea, they are not contented herewith, but where they should be subject to the discipline, which have been ordained in the church, they themselves will appoint such discipline, aswell to the Ministers, as to the whole church, as shall seem good unto them. Yet when they have that, they themselves will not be subject to that law and discipline, which they have appointed to other, but will dispense with it, aswell for themselves, as for those whom they favour as they think good, even aswell as the Pope. Wherefore, they can neither blame the Pope, nor his church men herein, but they must likewise blame themselves, for that they do the same.  Toby. 
If it be not the same, at the least it is very like.  Eusta. 
Furthermore, 
Man's traditions changed into other as ill.  I can not see by what reason, they can reject the Traditions of our good ancient Fathers, under the title of man's Traditions, saying, that they were men, and that we must stay only upon the pure word of the Lord. Why, are they not then contented with this word? Why, can they not then away with such discipline, as jesus Christ himself hath ordained: And such as his Apostles and disciples have practised? For I would ask them but this question. Seeing they reicte all Ecclesiastical Traditions, under colour that we ought to follow only the word of GOD, which word condemneth all man's Traditions: are not they men as well as our predecessors were? And if they can not suffer the traditions of our predecessors, what reason is it, that we should the rather receive theirs, in steed of the simple and pure ordinances of jesus Christ? For I dare say, that they have abolished, as many or more as theirs, which have better ground, and are much more agreeable to the rule and Discipline of the Primitive Church.  Toby. 
I confess for my part, that there is great abuse grown, in the ancient discipline of the Church: But me thinks they should be contented to correct them, and keep that which is good, and according to the first ordinance of jesus Christ, & not abolish al.  Eusta. 
Thou sayest truth. But they may not be told of their faults, which be very great. For if they be told of them, than they cry out: why do you trouble us? Are not all things in good order? And, if we go about to show them their disorder by the word of God, and wherein their Traditions are different from the same, they answer, that they will dispute no more, and that they be already resolved, what they ought to believe and follow. And yet when we made the like answer to them, and those that hold the same religion, they mocked us, and said we answered so, because we durst not stand to the trial and that we have such mistrust in our weapon, that we be afraid to enter into combat.  Toby. 
Surely, now I perceive that thou art at them in good earnest, me thinks thou handlest them as they ought to be handled. For thou beatest them with their own rod, and condemns? them with their own sentence. But I pray thee, how art thou become so great a doctor in divinity? How couldst thou perceive all this that thou hast spoken?  Eusta. 
How could I not perceive that, which is manifest to all men: For, since our first conversation together, might I not well perceive that, which I saw and heard daily? I report me to Jerome and Theophrastus' themselves, whether this be true or not? For, although we be of Religion and opinion different, yet I take them to be so honest, that they will not lie against their own conscience.  Theo. 
Toby and you have made a very long discourse, wherein ye have very near touched us, and likewise all these that do brag at this day, of the reformation of the Gospel, wherein ye have neither spared Magistrate, Minister, nor people.  Eusta. 
Yet we have spared you more, than you have spared us: or our Prelates, pastors, or Magistrates. But when we say troth, what need we to speak.  Theo. 
I confess that which you have spoken, is not so false as I would it were: but me seemeth you do us wrong, in that you make no difference, between those that abuse the Gospel (as you say) & those that live according to the same: but condemn all, as well the good as the evil, without judging the cause: 
Condemnation without judging the cause.  wherein me thinks ye show your selves, as if ye would condemn jesus Christ, as well as the devils▪ which complained of him, because they are one against an other, & at difference: if we condemn all those that are at strife, we must aswell condemn God as the devil: for they were always at strife, & shall never be otherwise, 
Perpetual strife between God and the Devil, and his servants.  nor can not. Now, if God and the devil be at strife, we may not say, that those which take God's part in anywise, agree with those that take the devils part. And to take both parts is impossible: seeing then that it is so, it can not be but that (those which serve the devil, and will not become obedient to God) will always burden the true servants of God, with the said complaints, that the devils laid to jesus Christ. For, if the devil durst do it to the master, it is not to be doubted, but that he will give boldness to his to do the like to the servants of jesus Christ, seeing he durst do it to Christ himself.  Eusta. 
I agree to all that. But you that glory so much in the reformation of your Gospel, brag to be all faithful, all good men, to follow the pure word of God, to be all led and guided by the holy ghost, and condemn all others that are not of your sect.  Theo. 
That notwithstanding it followeth not, that all they that brag of such things, be such as they would be esteemed. For, the church of God will never be without hypocrites and false brethren, 
The evil and the good mingled together in the Church.  mingled amongst the children of God, which bring more dangerous and offensive war to the church of God, them any other enemies whatsoever they be. And therefore there will always be such devils, and such possessed enough in the church as thou speakest of, that will cry out on Christ and his servants, and complain on them, but yet they are not of the Church. For there is great difference between being of the Church, 
The Church persecuted by her own.  and being in the Church. But where can the devil assail Christ nearer, and more subtly then in his church? What sort of men can he better use to serve his purpose, than those, which only will be holden for the true members of the church, but such as shallbe in greatest credit, and authority in the same? If thou wilt talk of Ministers, I would ask of thee: when was the church ever without false Prophets, dumb dogs flatterers, and hirelings, which have always warred against the true Prophets & Apostles, and against the true Ministers of the lord? And have not these been most promoted, and best esteemed amongst men? If ye talk of Kings, Princes, Lords, and Magistrates, consider how many have there been found, that have yelden such obedience to the word of God, which hath been declared unto them by the Prophets, and other ministers of the Lord, and have showed them such honour and reverence as they ought? For one that hath been found to yield such duty to their Minister, as behoved, there have been twenty found that have done the contrary, which have not been contented not only to despise the doctrine of the true servants of God, but have also driven them out, and persecuted them themselves. And when I speak this, I speak not of such Princes and Magistrates which have had dominion over such people and Nations as were esteemed Infidels, but I speak of those that reigned over the people which were esteemed of God and of his Church. But how many have been found among this people which would have disposed the religion after their own fantasies, to make it serve to their affections and commodities, & which have usurped the offices in the church, which belonged not to them? 
jeroboam. Ahaz. Ozia.  jeroboam, Ahaz, and Ozias, which were Kings over juda and Israel, do sufficiently witness unto us. And when all these were reproved by the Prophets, how were they received? 
Achab.  After that Achab with his jesabel had perverted all the divine service, 
jesabel.  by the means of his false Prophets, what said he to Hely? Was it not laid to his charge, that it was he the troubled all Israel? Hely which only went about to set up the true service of God according to his law, 
Hely.  troubled all: 
2. King. 18.  and Achab which was cause of all the ruin that was in the Church of God, 
Achabs' reproach to Hely.  was a good King, and very zealous of the glory of God. Wherefore rightly Hely answered him: it is thou & thy father's household that troublest Israel. And here doth Achab show himself like these devils which complained of jesus Christ. And yet all these Kings of whom I have spoken would not be holden for Infidels, 
The rebellion of the Magistrates and people against the Ministers of the Lord.  no more than those which in these days will be holden for Christian Princes & magistrates, yea, reform according to the Gospel: and nevertheless, they will receive the Gospel but according to their own pleasure. And if that in all times there hath been such contradiction of Princes and magistrates against the servants of God, and if they refused to submit themselves to the word of God, the rebellion was not less among the people, which commonly follow the manner of their Princes and Lords, & rather of those that rebel against God and his servants, them of those that show their duty as they ought to God ward. And sith it is so, what reason is it to condemn as well the true servants of God, the good Magistrates, and other good men which do well discharge their office, as their adversaries, which from time to time have troubled the Church.  Eust. 
I grant that were no reason, but this is nothing to my talk.  Theo. 
It is all one: For it seemeth that thou wouldst have so perfect a Church, that there should be no dissension or discord: but it is in vain to look for any such here, as our Saviour Christ himself hath well declared unto us by the parables and similitudes which he used. For there will always be ill fish among the good in the net of the Gospel, and the lords field will never be so clean in this world, 
hypocrites a●ong the faithful in 〈◊〉 Church.  but that there will be always darness mingled with the good seed, which will be so like in growing, that it can not be known from the other, 
Math. 13.  till it show itself farther.  Eust. 
What is the cause thereof? 
Mark. 4.   Theo. 
Among others there are two most worthy to be noted.  Eust. 
Which be they?  Theo. 
The first is, 
Matth. 13.  that the Devil doth always mingle his seed with the Lords seed, until the Lord do clean separate them.  Eust. 
And what is the second?  Theo. 
The second is, that the very children and servants of God are never so perfectly regenerated in the world, 
Rom. 6. 7. 8.  neither can not so well mortify their old Adam & sinful flesh, 
Imperfections in the perfectest.  but that there always remaineth many carnal affections in them, yea, even in the perfectest, which is the cause they can not be so perfect as they ought to be. Wherefore, the most just are greatly grieved, that they can not become so obedient to the will of God as they desire, and as God in his law requireth: even as S. Paul witnesseth of himself. 
Roma. 7.  But I will leave to talk any more hereof at this time, because I will come to the point that Toby talked of touching the new temporal Pope.  Toby. 
Truly I would gladly hear thy mind therein.  Theo. 
I doubt not but the Devil would be glad to do as much as you have spoken touching this matter, in those places where the spiritual Pope is beaten down. 
The foundation of the spiritual Pope  He hath heaved up his spiritual Pope, under the title of Minister of the Church, and hath taken occasion to give unto himself many goodly titles, and such authority as the spirit of God giveth to the true Ministers of his word, and their ministery: But if the Devil and his false Prophets and pastors have abused the name of this holy ministery and the true ministers of the Lord, to usurp tyranny over the Church of jesus Christ under this colour: it followeth not therefore that the authority of the true ministery of the church, and the true ministers of the Lord, (which is given them of God and not of men) ought to be diminished. 
Evil reforming of the Church.  For whosoever useth such mean to correct the fault that the Pope and his have committed in this behalf, doth not reform the Church, but deform it more than it was before. And therefore when the true Ministers of the Gospel preached in the beginnying against the Pope and other false Shepherds which have abused the ministery of the Church, and wholly overthrown it: and when they have admonished Princes and Magistrates to set to hand, that the abuse which was in the Church might be corrected and reform according to the word of God: they preached not that the Magistrates should take any tyranny over the Church, which they condemned, and that they should tread the ministery thereof under their feet: but that they ought to bestow their whole power in restoring of it to such perfectness, as it ought to be according to God's word. And to the end that the Magistrates should not stick at it, 
The declaration of the Ministers to the Magistrates.  and think that it belonged not to them, they showed them what was their duty, and how much God had honoured them in calling them thereto. They likewise declared unto them, the honour that the spirit of God showeth to that holy state in the sacred Scriptures: and what dishonour and injury the Pope and his prophets have done unto it. Wherein they did not amiss, but faithfully executed their charge. If there be any that have passed their bounds therein, I will not excuse their fault. And likewise, if there be any Magistrates, 
Magistrates abusing the Gospel and their office.  that stretch that farther than they ought, which hath been preached unto them by the true ministers of the Lord, touching the authority and power that the Lord hath given them: the fault is not in the true ministers, but in those which abuse their doctrine, which is the doctrine of God. For there is no more reason to blame them in such case then to blame the Prophets and Apostles because they writ of the excellency, as well of the ministery of the Gospel, as of the state of Magistrates. For they wrote not that which they have written, to give the Devil, false prophets, and tyrants, occasion thereby to usurp tyranny over the Church, but because the troth is so, and that it is needful that the faithful should so understand it: for whom they have both written and preached, and not for tyrants or enemies of the Church. If there be then any Magistrates in these days, which under title of authority and power that God hath given them, will take more authority and power over the Church than God willeth them, and will make the ministery of the same subject unto them, as the Pope hath made them subject to him and his, and hath also made subject the power and authority of Princes & Magistrates: the same do verily set up a new Pope, 
Popedom changed & not abolished  changing only his coat and mask. And by this means Satan shall establish a new Popedom, under another colour, but all will come to one end, though they take an other way. And so the tyranny that he tofore time hath used over the Church and ministery of the same, 
A Popedom more dangerous than the first.  shall not be taken away, but only changed and disguised.  Toby. 
Nay, it will be worse: for it will not only be changed and disguised, but more enforced.  Theo. 
How can that be?  Toby. 
Thou knowest, that what power so ever the Pope and his, have over the church in their estate, yet can they not do what they list, except they do otherwise then they ought to do. For, first they can put no man to death: but must deliver up to the secular power such as they judge worthy of corporal punishment, either for heresy, or committing of any other crime against the faith and religion. But if the whole power of the church, be in the magistrates hands, they may bind and lose as they list. They need not to borrow the sword of an other, which they enjoy themselves. Furthermore, notwithstanding the great abuse in the romish Church, yet were the Counsels, Synods, and ancient cannons always of some authority with them. There is neither Pope, Cardinal, nor Bishop, that dare undertake to admit any into the ministery of the Church, except he have passed the order which he must pass, and without some form of election. If any be deposed out of the ministery, he shall not be deposed without being heard, as appertaineth to him: that is to said, without form of Ecclesiastical judgement. But if the whole power be in the Magistrate's hand, they may place or displace the Ministers as they list, without any Ecclesiastical order, be it right or wrong. They may use them as servants, that when they are weary of them, they may put them away, or put them to death as they list, I mean if the Magistrates be tyrants, and have none that dare gainsay them, without the like danger. And so Wolves shallbe thrust into the Church of God, and the true shepherds shallbe driven out. For tyrants will never abide to hear the troth, as it ought to be told them: and if they be no tyrants, they will be content with the charge which the lord hath given them, and will beware how they attribute to their particular, that which is common to all the Church, or which is specially joined to the Ministers of the same.  Theo. 
I perceive thou speakest reason: for though the Pope and his, abuse, and have of long time abused, both Councils and ancient Cannons, and that they use no part of the ancient discipline of the church, but only the names and titles: yet dare they not so openly give themselves over to 〈…〉 they would, if that bridle were not.  Toby. 
Thereupon I conclude, that if this bridle could not so keep them, within their bounds, but that they have overpassed them very much, as you say: it will be worse, when the power of the church is in the hands of those, which are armed with the temporal sword, which have none other Laws to restrain them, and keep them in their bounds, but such as they themselves will take and those at their pleasure. And besides that, how often chanceth it, that th●●e of this estate, have neither learning nor knowledge, and are the least exercised in matters belonging to the Church: And yet these shallbe they, that shall command Ministers and Preachers what they list, on pain of their sword: and shall appoint them laws touching their estate & ministery, and likewise to the whole church.  Theo. 
I confess the all these inconveniences might come of such tyranny. And therefore the true ministers of the Gospel, 
Good Ministers prevent the new Popedom.  perceiving the subtlety of satan in such case, & forseing his pretence, prevent such things betime. Wherefore, they cry no less against such tyranny & abuse (when they perceive it) than they have heretofore cried against the tyranny and abuse of the Pope, and the Popish church.  Toby. 
There are very few that do so, 
Priests and Monks transformed.  for I know the greatest part to belly gods, flatterers, hirelings, who have the good will of the Magistrates and higher powers, speak as pleaseth them whom they seek to please, and confirm their tyranny: In steed of reproving them, and fighting in the quarrel of the liberty of the Church. Wherefore, if they have good occasion to call our Priests and Monks belly gods, and false shepherds: your preachers are not void of the same fault, they can play that part well enough.  Theo. 
I would I could in all points disprove thee herein. But I pray thee consider whence those belly gods are come to us: come not the most part of them from those, whom thou mentionedst even now? Thinkest thou that all those priests and monks, that now hold on our side, are now wholly unpriested & unmonked? Thinkest thou not that the devil hath sent them amongst us, to ●●asider the Gospel, having enough to 〈◊〉 his turn beside. Wherefore it is no marvel, if he go about to sow those ●ermine under other habit and ●●ler, where such Apostates will 〈◊〉 received in their 〈◊〉 habit. For he is contented that they unclothe the outward habit, so they uncloche not their priesthood or monkehood. But though there be such, yet thanked be God there are other, which are ready & contented not only to be driven away and banished in maintaining the liberty of the true discipline of the Church, in despite of tyrants, but also to give their livesin so good a quarrel.  Toby. 
If there be any such, they 〈◊〉 thick sown, but come thin up: and besides that, they shall find very few, either of their 〈◊〉, or of the Magistrates or commons', that will stick to them in the maintenance thereof: but almost all sorts of men cry out against them, and against rebels & seditious persons that trouble the whole church. Now, what better hope of reformation, is there too be looked for at your hanndes, then at ours? but only that it is like 〈…〉 overthrown with you, than ever it was 〈…〉 near) by the Pope's 〈…〉 I dare say: that I see already 〈…〉, that under title of reformation by the Gospel some christian Princes have in 〈…〉 usurped more, tyranny▪ over the Churches in their dominion, their 〈…〉 and his adherentes in six hundred years.  Theo. 
Thou talkest at pleasure of affection that thou bearest against us and our religion. But in this mean while, 
True reformation of the Church.  thou considerest not the goodness of those that fear God, aswell Ministers, Magistrates, as common people. For, as there are good shepherds, which faithfully execute their office, usurping nothing over the Church or Magistrates, but honouring them as they ought, according to the word of God: So likewise, are there many true christian Magistrates, which let helping hand, both to the church, and ministers of the same, not to oppress them, but to help and further than in their charge, as much as either of their offices requireth. And when this agreement is between the Magistrates and the ministers, the people which are committed to their charge, do willingly frams themselves, to yield to God and their pastors 〈◊〉 his servants, the honour & obedience, which they owe●vnto them. And though the number of these be not so great, as it is to be wished, yet there is good hope, that the Lord will make perfect that good work, which he hath begun in his church. 
The ignorance of many.  For, there are many that e●re rather of ignorance, then of malice! and for fear ●east some new tyranny should be used over the Church; the Magistrates and the people, under colour of ministery, then for any hatred they bear to good discipline.  Toby. 
You can very well excuse your ●aultes: this is always your manner, when ye cannot gainsay that, which is evident to all men, to make some execuse. And yet will ye not accept the excuses of other, though they be never so reasonable.  Theo. 
I excuse nothing, but that that is to be excused. 
Ignorance worthy of blame.  I excuse not the ignorance of those which are ignorant of the things that we talk of, and chief seeing the Gospel hath been preached so long, and so plainly among them. For if they be ignorant, it is their own fault. It may be also some preachers faults, which have not declared these things as they ought: neither have had so great care of the discipline of the church, as is requisite. Some 〈…〉, 
Fault in the Ministers.  because they are ignorant themselves, and understand not the governing of the church. Some for not caring greatly for the flock to them committed, and not bearing so fervent a zeal to the glory of God, & the edification of his church. Some other, because they be flatterers, and are afraid to get the●● will of men, but especially of the higher sort: knowing that they will not willingly submit themselves to discipline. But how soever it be, there is difference between those that sin ignorantly, (though it be never so gross) and those that sin upon pretenced malice. And ●n tother side, 
False detractors to hinder the discipline of the Church.  there are so many false reporters, & make bats among men, but chief about princes & magistrates, which with their flatterers & slanderers go about nothing else but to hinder that true discipline be not received, and restored into the church, as of necessity is requisite. And this they do, because they are afraid of it themselves, for that they will neither be subject to god nor his church. And these fellows find more, which nor only give ear to them, but also 〈…〉 detractions, than the good preachers find that follow the true doctrine which they preach. These are of the number of those devils, which cry out against the servants of God, and complain of them, after they have done the worst they can against them, in seeking to overthrow the whole ministery of the church, and all true reformation.  Toby. 
Me thinks we have talked long enough, of these manner of devils and possessed, which complain of those whom they have wronged, and accuse such as have received great injury at their hands, tell me now if thou have any more to say of other kinds, 〈◊〉 which we have not yet spoken.  Theo. 
Thou must further note, that those devils which complained of Christ, complained not only, that he tormented them before their time, but also made request unto him, that he would not send them to the bottomless pit, nor out of the Country▪ but that he would suffer them there.  Toby. 
What sayest thou to that?  Theo. 
First I say, that all the wicked are 〈◊〉 offended, when they see & perceive their judge. 
●ow the true Ministers of ●he Lord are ●●dges of the ●icked.  Now the ministers of the Lord are as judges to the wicked, for that jesus Christ condemneth them by the judgement pronounced unto them by the mouth & ministery of his servants. And therefore it is written of Ezechiel, 
czech 22.  that the lord sent him as judge of the people, 
●●on. 16.  whose Prophet he was. And jesus Christ said: that he would send the holy spirit to his Apostles, which should reprove the world of sin, as a judge which condemneth him, by the preaching of the gospel announced by the Ministers of the same. For the manner of speech that jesus Christ useth in this place, importeth so much. And this causeth the wicked to murmur against the Ministers of the lord (as these wicked spirits) when they are constrained to see them & hear them. 
The wicked will never find time to hear the condemnation.  Furthermore, the wicked are herein like to those wicked spirits, which would always prolong the time, as the giltte which are condemned to the gallows. For, they think it won time, if they may delay it so, that they be not constrained to come to account. These devils denied not, 
The reasons of those tha● are convinced by the word of God.  but that they had well deserved to be driven out, and sent to the bottomless pit, because they could not deny it: but they feared lest they should be sent thither before that tyme. For the wicked would never willingly appear before the judge, & therefore can never find meet time to come to judgement. There are also many, whose consciences bear them witness, that that which the true Ministers of the Gospel preach is troth: & that which they demand touching the reformation of the Gospel is very reasonable. At the least they can not gainsay it by the word of God, how much soever they calominate against it. And because they have nothing else to say, they complain that the ministers are too earnest and too sharp, and that the people will not so be won. They say that they must go softly to work, & by little and little tarry a time. But in the mean time they consider not, that they and the Ministers may die the whilst▪ and that it is requisite that every man make himself ready in time, to give account to the high judge, who granteth no dela●e when the hour is come. They consider not likewise, 
〈◊〉 with 〈◊〉 profit is dangerous.  that some hath been tarried for more than x. or xv. year, some other more than xx. or thirty. years: & yet they are so far from amendment, that they are daily worse and worse.  Toby. 
Then we may well say by them, that they are the worse for the keeping.  Theo. 
They wax so evil, that after long looking for, they are less ready to do good, then ever they were. They so well determine to amend, that when they feel themselves earnestly pressed, not only in word, but also in deed, and that they will tarry no longer, but that the servants of God will at length know if God ought to be heard in his Church, or men, and if these Dogs, Hogs, Foxes, and Wolves, which are in the Church, ought always to be suffered: then declare they themselves to be very Hogs, Dogs, Wolves and Foxes. And while we let the time pass, they they counterfect the sheep▪ But when we go about by true marks▪ to know whether they be sheep or no, they can not away with this trial: Then show they what they can do. They are not contented to tread under foot the pearls, 
Dogs and swine turn against the servants of God.  which are cast before them, and the holy things, which are given them, as they ha●e done of long time, but they turn against the servants of God (which offer them unto them) to bite and tread them in pieces, 
Matth. 7.  as jesus Christ saith that Dogs and Hogs will do, to those (which against his commandment, to cast the Pearls and precious stones of his Gospel, before them.  Toby. 
It may be, 
The punishment of God, for too long bearing with abuse.  that the Ministers do well deserve such reward. For, seeing that jesus Christ hath forbidden them, so to profane and soil his holy things, why have they so long done it, against the commandment of jesus Christ. 
The reproach of the Papists for polluting the sacraments in reformed Churches.  For in this case (me seemeth) there is much more disorder among you that brag of the reformation of the Gospel, then among us whom you call Papists. For you make no difference between Dogs Hogs and sheep, and principally in the administration of your Sacraments. We do not so in our churches, which you call Popish. For whatsoever our curates and shepherds be, yet they will know their sheep: and will not receive any (specially to the supper, which they celebrate) without they first know what faith or religion they be of. But your pastors and Ministers are constrained to receive indifferently, all such as shall present themselves to your supper. Your reformation is so well established, that if a common whore, a thief, a robber, or a jew, a Turk, come to you, your Minister dare not refuse him, except he will endanger himself to be deposed from the ministery, at the least. Think you, that offendeth us not greatly? And that it letteth not many men of good conscience from yielding to your sect? For though you blame our form of religion, yet we think, if we do not better than you, we can not lightly do worse. For at the least we observe our Ceremonies, and that form of discipline, which we have in our churches, better than you observe those, which you ought to observe, if ye had received the Gospel, as you brag. Seeing then that your Ministers have so long time given to hogs & dogs, those things which you esteem to be most precious and holy, is it not good reason, that those hogs and dogs should show themselves to be such, & should punish the dishonour, which they showed to God and his word, and his holy Sacrament is. For you brag to have all these things.  Theo. 
I agree, that they have lingered therein too long: and that the punishment whereof thou speakest, is very just. And it cannot be otherwise, seeing that jesus Christ hath foreshowed it. For in admonishing his Apostles not to give holy things to dogs, nor to cast pearls among Swine, 
Math. 7.  lest they tread them under foot, and tear them in pieces which offer them: He gave them warning hereby, prophesying and threatening what should happen unto them, if they failed herein. And although our Ministers be faulty herein, 
They that will defer the time with God.  in that they have deferred the time to long, some for fear of displeasure, & some for losing of that they have, watching for better opportunity, yet are they burdened by divers, to be to hasty, to wilful, and to rash. And this is the cause, that such always defer the time so long.  Toby. 
Therefore I fear me they shall sweetly abye for it one day, & shall then perceive what sheep they have in their flock.  Theo. 
Seeing that God hath spoken it, we need not to dispute whether it shall come to pass or no. Or whether we ought to defer the time so long or no. We need to determine no more, or take any other council in it. They that do otherwise declare one of these two: either that they will control God, as if that which he hath ordained were not well enough, and that rule which he hath given to his Church were not sufficient: or else show themselves rebellious against him, in not obeying him. And therefore we ought not to appoint or limit any time, to do that which he hath commanded. For if we mind to obey him, we ought not to delay any time, seeing we know his will. 
The hypocrisy of those which seek excuses.  And therefore I judge them less hypocrites which say plainly. Let us cast of this yoke wherewith they would yoke us, 
Psalm. 2.  and let us break this band wherewith they would bind us, and let us do as we were wont: then they which make delay, and excuse themselves with the tyme. For they dare not speak so openly as the other do, nor utter their mind, because they are somewhat more shamefast and hypocrites than the other. But whilst they thus defer the time, they and their ministers may die: and then must they both appear before the judgement seat of God, who will neither allow appellation or delay.  Toby. 
I am sure if jesus Christ should have demanded of the Devils which complained of him, what time they would have him grant them, they would never have found convenient time, but would as well have complained on him a thousand years after, as then: Likewise, if God should give us our choice what time we should obey his commandments, and do as he requireth us, we would be as hard to please as they.  Theo. 
Therefore he demandeth not our advise, neither putteth it to our choice, but commandeth: 
The obedience which we own to God.  and when he commandeth we ought to obey. And if we obey not, nor cease from wickedness, he hath as great power to drive us away, to cause us to do what so ever pleaseth him, whether we will or no, as he had to drive out the wicked Spirits, which he cast out whether they would or no, notwithstanding their resistance, complaints, and requests. Though we resist & seek never so many ways to avoid it, yet will he be master. Yet we have one point more to consider in the request of these devils. That is: that they desire to remain still in the Country, that they might vex other, if they might no more vex those poor persons out of whom they were cast.  Toby. 
They did show by that experience, when they entered into the Swine which fed there by: for if they might have done worse, they would not have spared. There are many men which do the like, 
Desire to do mischief.  when they can not hinder or let the word of GOD in one place, they go to an other: For they can no more be without doing mischief, than these devils. Wherefore they bring all out of order wheresoever they come, and carry this pestilence with them wheresoever they go.  Toby. 
I know many such devils.  Theo. 
And knowest thou none like to them of Genezareth?  Toby. 
Why askest thou that question?  Theo. 
Thou knowest that after our Saviour Christ had cast out these devils that we talk of, and that they had drowned the Swine into which they entered, the Genezarians were grieved with the loss of their Swine, 
The Genezarian●.  and that such things happened in their Country: and therefore when they understood what Christ had done to these possessed, they met him and prayed him to departed their Country.  Toby. 
Me thinks they were much overseen therein: for seeing they understood of the great power of Christ, and what good he had done (not only in these two possessed, but also to all the Country, which they keep in great subjection and fear) they had juster occasion to beseech him, yea, and with great suit to entreat him to tarry amongst them, then to pray him to departed. For what fear and horror was all the Country in, having these two so dangerous, furious, and outrageous possessed?  Theo. 
They showed themselves herein not only overseen, but wholly mad, and hereby show, that they needed not to be so grieved with the loss of their Swine, for that the declared themselves to be very swine, yea, vile and detestable Swine: For they did set more by earth then by heaven: they esteemed Swine better than their own souls. For, they might well think what goodness was to be found at Christ's hands in recompense of them, seeing he had such power over the devil himself. But seeing they were such filthy swine themselves, Christ would show by the working of these devils in the swine, how he could use such swine as the Genezarians were and all such other as were given over by gods just judgements, according to their deserts.  Toby. 
Because they were very swine themselves, peradventure they were afraid, lest he would likewise have used them so.  Theo. 
But to drive away Christ, 
The true mean to drive away the Devil.  who hath power to drive away devils, is not the way to fly from the devil, but to receive him. Wherefore the best way to drive him away is to become the Sheep of jesus Christ, who is come to transform Dogs, Hogs, and Wolves into sheep and Lambs, 
Esa. 11. 2●.  and to be their shepherd, as isaiah prophesied.  Toby. 
Thou didst ask me now, if I knew any that were like these Genezarians, I pray thee tell me thyself, who be they that be like them.  Theo. 
Although the Genezarians were grieved for the loss of their swine, yet saint Luke teacheth an other point, 
Luke. 8.  that caused them to do, as they did to Christ.  Toby. 
What saith he?  Theo. 
They that were in great terror and fear, seeing Christ do as he did. For, if they had been onelymoved with the loss, they would scant have entreated him, 
Fear of the power of god without taste of the goodness thereof.  to depart their Country, but would rather have used commandments, threatenings, yea, and peradventure have laid hands on him (if God would have permitted.) But they were astonished at the power and divine virtue, which jesus Christ showed before their eyes in that country, by so marvelous a work: and therefore they flattered him, rather for fear, than love. And where these desired him to depart their Country, 
Matth. 8.  the poor possessed, whom he had healed, 
Mark. 5.  offer to follow him as his disciples, 
Luke. 8.  whether so ever he go.  Toby. 
Thereby they show, that jesus Christ hath so delivered them, from the power of the Devil, that they are less possessed, than the other of the country. For, if the Devil had not had great power of the Genezarians, they would rather have yielded to jesus Christ, and followed him as Disciples, then to have driven him out of their Country.  Theo. 
That is certain. For it had been better for them, to have departed their country themselves, yea, to have left wives and Children, than ever to have suffered jesus Christ to departed from them. And therefore if we well consider the work of jesus Christ, as well in the possessed which he healed, as in the Genezarians, we may by them learn to know the difference, that is between those that effectually taste of the grace of the Gospel, and such as have not tasted thereof as they ought. These poor possessed tasted thereof: 
divers knowledge of the Gospel.  and therefore they esteemed nothing in the world so much as jesus Christ, but offered themselves to follow him, whatsoever did happen. Contrariwise the Genezarians tasted not of this grace, but had only a knowledge of the divine power, which they saw in jesus Christ, which knowledge made them to fear him, but taught them not to love him, and follow him, thereby to be made partakers of greater goods, without comparison then that was, which they thought he had spoiled them. The most part of men are thus disposed to Godward: 
Fear of God without any love towards him.  because they know the power he hath to punish, they fear him. This fear causeth them to honour and worship him, but not heartily: they fear him as wicked subjects fear their Prince, whom they honour and reverence against their wills, for fear of his power: And therefore all the honour and service, that they do to him, is but only feigned. So the greatest part of men fear and honour God, but yet they wish him so far from them, that they might never hear speak of him, or have to do with him. All they that have not tasted the sweetness of the goodness of GOD, are lead by such Spirit and affection towards him. And this is the cause, that so few receiveth the Gospel as they might. For, seeing it is hard, 
The cause that letteth many from following the Gospel.  yea, & impossible to follow it, but that it will bring some incommodity, both to the body and goods, of those that faithfully follow it, it seemeth to bring always evil luck followeth it.  Toby. 
Yet there is no man but will brag and say, that he followeth the Gospel.  Theo. 
That is true, but the most part would have such a Christ as the Genezarians desired to have: that is, that they might not lose their Swine by him: they would also have such a Gospel.  Toby. 
There are some that are not only contented that the Gospel cost them nothing, 
Such swin● as both reject Christ themselves and cause o●ther to do the like.  but they would gain and be enriched under colour of the same.  Theo. 
I pray thee Toby show me what is the cause that Popes, Cardinals, Bishops, Priests, and Monks resist the Gospel so stoutly, and persecute it so cruelly?  Toby. 
They will not tell thee that: for they say, it is they that maintain the Gospel, and those whom they persecute are Heretics.  Theo. 
And what causeth the doctrine of the Gospel to be heresy to them? None other thing, but that they fear if it should be received & practised as it ought to be amongst Christians, they should be driven out of their stoyes and stalls, wherein they are fed as fat as Miller's Swine: for they had rather be swine to Satan and Antichrist to be fatly fed in their Stoyes as they are, then to be sheep of the flock of jesus Christ, or labouring Oxen in the harvest of the Lord. Those likewise which are of alliance to them, either by parentage, consanguinity, or affinity, or by any other mean, and specially those which serve them, and live of their deceit, set more by these fat Swine, then by jesus Christ the true shepherds of their souls. For these Swine fatten the porridge with their fat, or at the least unfatten them not, but unfatten enough of others, to fatten their parents, affines, friends, and other maintainers of their Mother holy Church, which Mother have fed them so fat. Wherefore, it is no marvel though they be loath to leave her, or to be weaned from such breasts. There is an other sort, which though they receive no profit of such swine, yea, and know the troth of the Gospel: nevertheless, they had rather be rid of jesus Christ, and drive him out of their Country, than they would drive out such swine, because they fear lest such change should trouble them, and lest they should have some hindrance touching their bodies or temporal goods. To be short: we see daily if there be any talk of the kingdom of Christ, the like that happened to Herode and those of jerusalem, when jesus Christ was borne.  Toby. 
Why? what happened to them.  Theo. 
Saint Matthew saith: 
●ath. 2.  that when by mean of the wise men which came to worship Christ, news came to jerusalem that the King of the jews was borne, not only Herode, but all the Cities of jerusalem was troubled with him.  Toby. 
It is no marvel though the Tyrant Herode was troubled, for he feared the loss of his kingdom, which by right belonged not to him. 
Men troub at the b● of jesus Christ.  But what needed they of jerusalem to be troubled with such news? Had they not greater occasion to rejoice? For besides that Messiah was promised to them, at whose hands they looked for full & perfect restoring of all things: it is to be doubted, but they had rather have a King of their own Country and blood, than such a stranger and Tyrant as Herode was.  Theo. 
Thou sayest troth, and therefore the faithful which were the true Israelites among those people, rejoiced very much when they heard of the birth of jesus Christ, their King, their saviour and redeemer.  Toby. 
We have good witness thereof, and namely in the Shepherds to whom it was first showed, and after in Simeon, which so longed to see that great goodness of God which he saw. 
Luke. ●.   Theo. 
The other which were carnal and worldly men, and not true Israelites, but only in name, denied that Herode would not so easily leave his kingdom, and that the Romans would not suffer any other prince to reign in juda, but themselves, and those appointed by them. Whereby they thought that there must needs be great change in jury: and this change could not be without great wars & troubles: which should greatly trouble the common state, and so become hindrance unto them. And because they would live in quietness, they had rather remain in the state wherein they were, (though it were miserable) then fall into those troubles, which they thought would be greater. For, they were already used to this yoke, and therefore they thought it not so heavy, as they did at the first, before they were used to it.  Toby. 
Me thinks neither Herode nor the jews, 
●e vain ●re that tyrant's have, 〈◊〉 the Go●●ll should ●●der their ●●gdome.  needed to fear that, seeing Christ came not to reign after the manner of worldly kings, as he himself witnesseth. Therefore neither Herode, nor the Romans needed to fear, that he should take away their possession, 
●●th. 18.  neither the jews, 
〈◊〉. 6. 18.  that he should trouble their Country, in taking of their Kingdom.  Theo. 
That is very true: But the state was then as we see it now, when jesus Christ showeth himself to the world, by the Preaching of the Gospel. For, why do tyrants persecute it? But because they fear (like Herode) least it should hinder their Kingdom? And how many are there, that would be glad to be lightened, of the romish Antichrist yoke, 
Worldly quietness, preferred before the quietness o● the conscience  & have greater liberty, which notwithstanding had rather bear it, then by suffering never so little trouble, to be delivered by means of the Gospel: Thereby we may well perceive, what care such have of their souls or Salvation. None but the true children of God esteem jesus Christ, and his Gospel, better than their Swine: and therefore, are always ready to forsake all, rather than jesus Christ, to abide all dangers, rather than suffer him to depart from them: yea, to keep him with them, as much as they can with all their might, and to follow him whether soever he go, for they esteem the liberty of their conscience more, than all the Kingdoms or Lordships of the world.  Toby. 
Are there not some among you, that brag of the reformation of the Gospel, that are like those that thou talkest of?  Theo. 
There are more than I would wish. For there are many, that although they see an unspeakable confusion in the Church of God, 
●●ei that re●●● the disci●●ne of the ●●urche to ●●oyd trou●●●.  and in all estates: yet they will hear of no better reformation, then that which they have, because their bodies are in quiet and rest. Wherefore, they fear if any should go about, to establish better order, (to th'end that God be not dishonoured as he is, and the people better instructed and ordered) lest some troubles might arise, which should trouble that worldly quietness, wherein they would live. And therefore, they had rather root in the mire, and suffer other to root with than, then to have those troubles which they so sore fear. Wherein they are greatly deceived: for the mean to live in quiet, is not to cast of the yoke of jesus Christ, 
●he yoke of ●hrist and ●●e yoke of ●athan.  but to embrace it: and they must necessarily bear the yoke of Satan, which will not bear Christ's yoke. 
●ath. 11.  Now it is easy to judge, which of the two is lighter and easier to be borne, and which bringeth greater quietness (by all means) unto man. For as jesus Christ witnesseth that his yoke is light, pleasant, and amiable, so he promiseth quietness to the souls and consciences of those which bear it, and submit themselves to him and his Discipline, and follow him as their Master.  Toby. 
I doubt not but these of whom thou speakest, do prove to their cost, that which thou sayest: and thinkest by that mean, to avoid a light and easy pain, are deceived, find for one pain an hundredth.  Theo. 
If such men knew what it were, to serve God from the bottom of their heart, they would not think or trouble: for there is no pain in serving God, but only in serving the Devil. For none serve GOD as they ought, but serve him with good heart: and to serve with good heart, is so far from being pain, that contrariwise, it is a singular pleasure to us: and as for those that serve the Devil, although they take pleasure in evil doing (for that it is more natural to them then to do well) yet they serve him as bond and slaves, and the pleasures that they have in serving him, are like the pleasures of the sick. Who (contrary to the council of the Physician) eat and drink that, which delighteth their fantasy, and afterward become sicker thereby.  Toby. 
We have already spoken heretofore of those, which are contented to have the Gospel and Religion, only in outward show. Me thinks we may well join them with these, of which we now talk.  Theo. 
We may well so do.  Toby. 
Seeing we have sufficiently and largely talked, of the old and new Genezarians; tell us if thou have any more to say, touching the possessed, of whom thou madest mention before.  Theophrast. 
I have much more to say: but we will leave of that till an other tyme.  
FINIS.   

THE SECOND PART OF THE DEMONIAC WORLD, or world possessed with Devils, containing three Dialogues: 

1. Of Familiar Devils.  
2. Of Lunatic Devils.  
3. Of the conjuring of Devils.    
Translated out of French into English by T. S. Gentleman.  
❧ Imprinted at London for john Perin, and are to be sold in Paul's Churchyard, at the sign of the Angel. 1583.   

he had heard him more at large, he was a great deal the rather desirous to deliver him, than ever he was before.  To. 
If he had continued still in that mind, it had been much better for him.  Theo. 
That is true indeed. But because there was no true fear of GOD in him, neither yet had taken deep & good rooting in his heart, it forthwith vanished clean away, when he was pressed to the contrary, and never strove to withstand the cruelty of the jews. And yet he showed himself to bear more reverence unto the name of GOD, than a great many of those, who would at this day, be taken not only for Christians, but also for the very stays and pillars of the faith. For, although they know well enough, that the causes which come before them, concern the glory of GOD, and his Church, yet have they less care to give judgement and condemn them, without further inquiring, what were the best way for them to take, making lighter account of giving judgement on them, then of the least cause in the world, whether it were of a money matter, or of any other worldly thing whatsoever.  Tob. 
If there were in them but that fear which they ought to have, in condemning the cause of God, under the name and title of heresy, me thinketh they should therein, be more circumspect and discreet. And for mine own part, as ignorant & unlearned as I am, yet I ever abhorred these fire tormentors, who so little esteemed of the lives of men, especially in such a cause.  Theo. 
Truly, if thy first reason which thou hast alleged would not serve them, me thinketh that the second which thou even now didst touch, might right well suffice, for them to cast, I will not say, a little water into their Wine, but into their fires. For to take away the lives of men, is no small matter in the sight of the Lord. But the offence is a great deal more heinous, when as men for God's cause, shall take life away from such, as should rather be preserved, and such also as should be in most estimation, with Princes and Magistrates.  
Thus than thou seest what an inconvenience pride bringeth with it, to those that proud and arrogant: For, seeing they presume so much of themselves as that they will not once vouchsafe to entertain the servants of God, and to be taught by them, as they had need, it is impossible for them to understand the truth, because they will at no hand understand it. And contrariwise, 
jesus Christ is schoolmaster to the humble, and not to the proud.  as jesus Christ showed himself to be the Teacher and Master of the humble and meek, even so rejecteth he out of his School, all high minded, proud, and presumptuous persons. And therefore he gave thanks to God his Father, in that he had revealed his will and truth unto the poor in spirit, 
Math. 11.  and hid it from the mighty and great men of the world. 
Isaiah. 66.  For, there are none but the poor and meek in spirit which are capable thereof.  
And therefore, the Lord sayeth by the Prophet Isaiah, Whom will I regard, but only the afflicted, and contrite in heart and mind, and him, who trembleth at my words? 
〈…〉.  Saint Paul also telleth the Corinthians, That the Lord hath not called many wise, strong, rich, and honourable men of the world: But the most feeble, most vile, and most contemptible. It is also written, 
1. Pet. 5.  That GOD resisteth the proud, and giveth grace to the humble. And therefore Saint Paul, diligently admonisheth all Christians not to esteem, 
Rom. 12.  nor presume over much of themselves. 
Philip. 2.   Tob. 
True it is indeed, that humility and honour, seldom or never agree quietly together.  Theo. 
That is most true. For, whereas humility is not, there cannot be a teacheable, and well disposed heart to receive doctrine and discipline: Which thing Saint Augustine confesseth to have found in himself by experience, 
S. Aug. in his 3. Book 5. Chap. of Confess.  saying in this manner. I then determined to apply my mind to the study of the holy Scriptures, that I might see what they were. And behold, 
The confession of S. Aug. as concerning the pride, which hindered him from profiting in th● holy scriptures.  I saw a thing that was never known to the proud, nor opened to children, but was lowly in his going, and very high in his arryning, & which brought great profit, and hidden secrets. And as for myself, I was even such a one, as that I was not able to make any entrance into it, or yet stoop so low, as once to be able to put my head into the intres thereof. For I was not then of the opinion whereof I now speak, when I looked upon this piece of Scripture, but thought it unworthy to be compared to Tully's dignity. For, my great pride could no● away with the baseness thereof, and therefore it fled from me: Neither was my wit so sharp, as that it was once able to pierce into it, and yet it was such, as grew up amongst the basest and meanest. howbeit, I might have vouchsafed to have been lowly. And because I was high minded, I thought myself to be a great Clerk. Hear we see how saint Augustine confesseth, that whiles he flattered himself, and esteemed so much of his own knowledge, and of the pride of his mind, as that he continually disdained and contemned the holy Scriptures. And although he had a mind oftentimes to give himself to the study of them, it was so far of that he found any taste or savour in them, as that he found▪ less savour in them at that time, than he did at the first. For, he thought them to be nothing in respect of the eloquence, and knowledge which he found in the Books of Tully and of the rest of the heathen Philosophers. But, after that this his pride was come down and abased, and the opinion which he had of himself and of his knowledge, he was of an opinion, clean contrary to his first: And then, he right well perceived, all human eloquence, and Philosophy, to be no better than bladders stuffed full of wind, and of no substance in respect of the holy Scriptures: although to the outward appearance they made a far gallanter muster and show. And therefore, whiles the eyes of Saint Augustine's understanding were blindfolded with the false opinion which he had of himself, he had the more hoodwinked them with this pomp & false appearance.  Tob. 
There are at this day, a great many in the world, 
There are many, that will counterfeit S. Augustine's pride, but they will not follow his humility.  who are in the self and same predicament, that Saint Augustine was in, at that time. But I know not, whether GOD will give them that grace, which he gave unto him, to let them understand their pride, that thereby they might be humbled, and for the false opinion which they have of their eloquence, knowledge and wisdom, to acknowledge themselves to be such fools, and blockeheaded beasts as indeed they are, to the end they might be made apt and Teacheable Scholars in the School of the word of God. For, there are such a number of Poetical brains, & so learned in the tongues and in human Philosophy: that they do not only make small account of the books of the holy Scriptures, in comparison of their Heathenish volumes: as that, which is of all other the most vile, they esteem of them no better, then of the Dreams of old doting fools, and of doting old wives tales. And as for mine own part, let them have as great knowledge as they will, until they burst with all, I will esteem of them no whit the more, if they be not honest men, and have the fear of God before their eyes.  Theo. 
Thou touchest now a disease, which at this day reigneth more than ever it did, yea, and that amongst such as bear the name of Christians, which is the cause that we have so many Libertine Atheists, 
Libertine Atheists.  who scorn and laugh at all Religions. And although they are not in truth, settled in any Religion, yet forsooth they would not he thought to be utterly void of Religion. And therefore, because they are of no religion, they are nevertheless of all Religions, in what Countries soever they come unto. For, they shoot at none other mark, but temporising, or serving of times, with every man, a Papist amongst Papists, an Epicure with Epicures, an Atheist, with Atheists, and to be short, a Devil amongst Devils, for they will not be disquieted either in body or mind neither yet hazard either body or goods. And therefore, they will not greatly frame themselves neither after jesus Christ, nor after the Pope, neither after the Gospel, nor after the Mass, nor yet after any controversy that is at this day for Religion amongst Christians, without perhaps some of them sustain some particular loss thereby. For, if either gain, or loss fall out unto them on either side, they will counterfeit zeal in that Religion which they think will be most for their profit, and which they suppose will best agree with that, which they desire to have here in this life, as we have a manifest example, chief, in the Prelates and Beneficed men of the Popish Church. For, if they did believe that there were a GOD in heaven, and any true religion, whereby their life and conversation ought to be governed, and that they should render an account thereof in the day of judgement, they would surely, be other manner of men, then in deed they are. Howbeit, they right well show, as well by their doctrine, as also by their life and conversation, that they have as much mind of God, as have bruit beasts, and do as much esteem of the immortality of their souls, as of the souls of their horses and moils. And therefore, all the zeal which they have to their Religion, proceedeth not from any love which they bear thereunto, but only to the honours, and great wealth which cometh unto them thereby. And therefore, when they see themselves in danger to lose them, they either become manifest black devils, and begin openly to persecute, or if they have any knowledge and eloquence, they strait way, 
Libertine Balaamites.  play the jolly Balaamites. For they commend themselves unto Antichrist to resist the truth of God, and maintain his false doctrine, against their own consciences: For, they themselves laugh him to scorn in their hearts, and do no more believe him, than those against whom they oppose themselves. But I fear me, I have done them great wrong to compare them unto Balaam, because they have not so much faith unto the true Religion, as Balaam had unto the Religion of the ancient Church of GOD, neither have they so great a regard to God, as he had. But they are as like him in all other points, as like may be, as in desire of honours, and worldly possessions. And therefore although they are in part, black Devils, yet are they in nature, more like unto white and Familiar Devils, where, the rest show themselves to be altogether black devils.  
Howbeit, whatsoever vizers they put on, they are always in truth, very Libertine Atheists, notwithstanding, that they seem outwardly the Followers of Popish Religion. And there are others also, who are almost like them, even of those which follow the Gospel, if they knew they might any way gain thereby. But the most of that sort, serve in Kings and Princes Courts. 
Libertine Courtiers.  For, if Kings and Princes favour the Gospel, than they know, that if they favour it as he doth, that they shall come to greater dignity, or at least, be the better and more firmly established in that degree and honour wherein they stand, for, as they can court it well, so will they also be the first that shall make court to the Gospel, and will be come fair white, and familiar Devils, amongst the very angels. But if a man should judge them by their works, fruits, and life, what Gospel it is that they profess, it would be soon judged that they are very Libertine Atheists. For, a man shall never find any reformation of life in them, which is the chief cause of the preaching of the Gospel, and the principal mark to be marked and known by, in those who have received the true faith, in the true fear of GOD, and in a good conscience. And so by that mean, all their Gospel willbe come a thing where with to scorn the Pope, his Priests, Friars, and the rest of his shorn Balaamites, and all the abuses of the Popish Church, and to make sport and pleasantly talk of them, especially in the companies of Ladies and Gentlewomen. And if the Gospel will give them any such liberty, whereby they may abuse it, into carnal liberty, they will be sure to lay fast hold thereon: and not stick to say, that they are not like unto those superstitious hypocritical Papists, whom they laugh to scorn.  
howbeit, further they will not, but as for the rest of their life, it shallbe as dissolute, as the most dissolute Papists, from whom they differ in nothing but in this, that they have put on a vizard of the Gospel, that they might therewith the better cover their Atheism.  Tob. 
Thou hast hitherto spoken of Libertine Atheists, who dissemble their Atheism, under the colour of having some Religion in them, so far forth as it tendeth either to their commodity or discommodity. But there are some others, who be cause they cannot find any such occasion, becon as it were neuter, 
Libertine neuter.  being of neither side, as thou hast oftentimes said. And the chief men which march under this Ensign, and that are of this Band, are they which are puffed up with eloquence, & knowledge, and are drunken in their own wit and understanding: As Saint Augustine confessed himself to be, before such time as GOD had touched his heart with his holy spirit, which is the spirit of humility. But, although Saint Augustine presumed thus of himself, by reason he was of so fine and quick witted a spirit, and of so very a sharp understanding, and excellent knowledge in humanity, as any man that ever lived in his time and age: yet was there always in him, some good seed of religion. But because he was an heathen man borne, and therefore had not from his youth been brought up in the word of God: but only in humanity and Paganism, and in the Religion wherein he was borne, he could not rightly judge of the true Religion, which he knew not. And the opinion which he had of himself, did so hinder him, as that he could not search after it, as he ought to have done. And after that divers, but especially his mother Monica, who was a widow, and became a Christian before him, a very good woman, and one that feared GOD, had exhorted and solicited him, to search after the holy Scriptures: those their exhortations stirred him up to the reading of the Bible. Howbeit, he read it not so reverently as he should have done, but rather for fashion's sake, by reason he came not appointed with that humility and modesty, which afterward he knew was meet for the disciples of the holy Ghost to come. But when God had rebated this his pride, with the spirit of modesty and humility, than found he that in it, which before he knew not how to find in it: And by that mean, he was somuch the more humbled. Howbeit, these glorious arrogant men, of whom we now speak, who thus glory of their knowledge, and skill, are even the very scorners and contemners of God: for they never show, that ever they had the true fear of God before their eyes, nor yet any good seed of religion in them. For, there is a great many of them, who have manifested themselves greater Atheists, after they had once gotten some knowledge of the gospel, than ever they had before, and since the time, have ever less reverenced the word of God. For, the knowledge which they received by the entertaining of the Gospel, served them to none other use, but to discover the Idolatries, superstitions, and abuses, which are in the popish Church, that they might laugh at them.  
And ever sithence that time, they are grown even unto this, that they are almost at the like point with the doctrine of Christian religion. For, as S. Paul said, They judge thereof, 
1. Cor. 1.  as the Grecians and wise men of the world, judged of jesus Christ, & of his Gospel: who thought the preaching thereof to be foolishness, because they were carnal men, and puffed up with an opinion of their own wisdoms.  
And because the Grecians, were always more accounted of then any of the rest of the Nations, by reason of their sharpness of wit, and of the knowledge which they had in the arts, in Philosophy, and in all other Letters of humanity, S. Paul nameth them specially, although he comprehendeth under this name, all the rest of the heathen, as well appeareth by that, that he opposeth them to the jews, and separateth them also from the Christians, unto whom, as he himself witnesseth, jesus Christ is the true wisdom, virtue, and power of God.  
Now, if these Libertine Epicures and Atheists, had been heathen borne, as S. Augustine was, or, if they had as much religion in them, being Christians borne, as he had in his Paganism, they should never have showed themselves, to have been so monstrous beasts, as in deed they are. But although in name, they are Christians born, they are to be accounted of, as if they had been borne and bred amongst Infidels and Pagans, yea even amongst the Epicures, out of whose books they have sucked and drunk, this profane spirit of Athiesme, who thus carrieth them away.  
For, they have yet less Religion in them, than ever had any of the heathen, who not only did not approve their doctrine, but which is more, manifestly, both by word and writing condemned it, yea, and oftentimes executed them by public justice namely, Athens. For, when God giveth us over so far, he then by his just judgement brutisheth us in the cause of religion. 
What it is to contemn prayer.  And therefore, that we shall not need any more to pray unto him, to beseech him, enlighten us with his holy spirit, in the knowledge of his holy word.  
But, over and beside, that David, and S. Peter, 
Psal. 19 119.  calleth the holy Ghost, the word of the Lord, 
2. Pet. 1.  a candle and lantern which lighteneth a dark place, 
john. 16.  and doth enlighten the simple, 
Psal. 16.  yet there is one thing more in it, which the Lord hath promised, 
1 Psal. 50.  that he will hear as many as shall call upon him in truth, 
Mat. 7. 18.  be near them, and grant them his holy spirit.  Toby. 
This then is the effect of thy conclusion, that proud men, and such as call not upon the Lord as they ought, for their instruction in the knowledge of his holy will, 
The judgement of God against the contempt and hating of his word.  have no great good liking to serve him accordingly. And because they have no such love and liking: but contrariwise will live as pleaseth them, God, in his just judgement giveth them over into a reprobate sense, and leaveth them as a spoil unto seducers, and false teachers. Wherefore, they always receive and allow rather falsehood and error, than the truth of the Lord.  Theo. 
In deed, because they had no love nor liking of the truth, but rather of leasings, the Lord by his just vengeance, hath given a mighty power of error unto such masters as they have a liking of, and such as they are best worthy of. And therefore when Moses admonished the people of Israel, 
Deut. 13.  that they should beware of false Prophets, who might deceive them, he namely said, that the Lord would tempt his people by false Prophets, who should make great shows of truth: and he would do it to this end, to prove whether his people feared and loved him with all their heart. or not.  
Wherein he manifestly declareth, that they which had the true fear of God before them, and loved him in deed, would never receive the false Prophets, 
A preservative against errors.  and cast off the law, & word of God, but always continue in the doctrine, which the Lord God had revealed unto them from heaven.  Toby. 
I thank thee, I now very well understand this point, and the cause also, why the devil every manner of way, hath so great power over us, as he hath. Moreover, although we have already spoken of many that are haunted with devils, 
Of Lunatic, deaf, dumb, and blind Demoniacques.  yet have we not all this while spoken any whit of the Lunatic, deaf, dumb, and blind Demoniacques.  Theo. 
It is no great matter: 
Mat. 12. 17.  For we will treat of them, 
Mark. 9  when thou shalt think it best. 
Luk. 11.    

The Title and effect of the fift Dialogue, of the world possessed with Devils.  
THis fift Dialogue is called, the dialogueve of Lunatic devils: because the chief matter contained therein, treateth of a Lunatic Demoniacque, of whom the Evangelists make mention, and of such as may be compared to the same. And because there were many accidents, which fell out unto this Demoniacque, somewhat is also said, of deaf, dumb, and blind Demoniacques, and how jesus Christ healed them.  
What grace God granteth to men, by the preaching of the Gospel.  
In what a dangerous estate they are, which are deprived of the Gospel.  
Of the Prophecies, of the hardening and blinding of their hearts, which contemn the word of God.  
What power the Devil hath over young children, and what be the causes thereof, and of Original sin.  
What occasions the Devil taketh at the infirmities of men, thereby to hurt them.  
Of those means, by which we give the Devil liberty to have access unto us.  
How the Angels were converted into Devils.  
Of Lunatic fools.  
Of the wicked Spirit which tormented Saul.  
Of the vengeance of God, upon the mighty men of the world.  
Of such as follow saul's ill conditions, and which sin against their own consciences.  
Of such as the Devil casteth into the fire▪ and into the water.  
Of the woman possessed of a Spirit, which stay money, by supping up of it.  
Of the reign of God Mammon here in this world.   

¶ The fift Dialogue of the Demoniac world, entitled Lunatic Devils.  Theophrast. Toby. Jerome. Eustace. Theophraste. 
THere is no man living, but that would be greatly afeard, when as he considereth of the estate where in these poor and miserable demoniackes stood, who were possessed with a Legion of Devils. But if they were very miserable, no doubt of it, the estate of the lunatic, deaf, dumb, & blind altogether, seemeth unto me to be most ungracious.  Tob. 
I warrant thee, the least of all these mischiefs is great enough to make the estate of a poor man miserable. For, although we be never wholly blind, deaf, nor dumb, yet see how we take on, when as our sight alone, beginneth to fail us, and that we must be feign to use spectacles? Or, if we hear not so well as we were wonted to do? or that we stammer, or have any other impediment in our tongue, and speak not so plainly as we would. And if we be thus at this point, we may easily judge, what a misery it is to be altogether blind, deaf, and dumb. But, if we have all these at once, besides a number of other strange diseases, joined together with than, than is there a notable sort of mischiefs piled up in us all at once.  Theo. 
That is out of all doubt, and by how much both the sight, the hearing, & the speech are the excellent gifts of God, by so much are those men most miserable, who are deprived of them.  Tob. 
For mine own part, I verily suppose that there is no man living but had rather die ten times, than he would be only blind, deaf, and dumb, although he were no demoniac.  Theo. 
Surely, he that should be in that estate, should be more miserable, as a man would say, than the very bruit beast. Now imagine that this might be, when as the devil should be amidst all his mischievous turns, whereof he is the cause & instrument. And if we must judge these Demoniacs to be miserable, what shall we say by them, who have all these inconveniences in their souls?  To. 
If we could aswell discern these mischiefs in our souls, as we can when we have them in our bodies, I do not doubt but that we would be in greater fear of them, 
2. Cor. 4.  than we are.  Theo. 
And yet for all this, they whom Satan the god of this world, have blindfolded their eyes, to the end they should not see the light of the gospel, and whose ears he hath stopped, that they should not hear the word of God, and whose tongues he hath tied, that they should not call upon, and praise the Lord, and such as whose hearts he possesseth and hardeneth, to the end they should not believe the gospel, are without all doubt a great deal more miserable and accursed, than these dumb, deaf, and blind demoniackes, where of we speak.  Tob. 
And yet a man shall find a great number of these demoniackes in the world.  The. 
Why man, there is almost nothing else in it. For we ourselves, have sometimes been all in this estate. And that which is more, all men are such by their own nature, until such time as, jesus Christ cometh unto them, to drive out the devil, who maketh them so deaf, dumb, and blind. And therefore, 
Deaf, dumb, & blind Demoniacs, healed by the gospel.  so often as we see any man converted to the Gospel, we must think it to be such a work, even a most excellent work of god: neither ought we less marvel at the matter, then if we saw him healing: the deaf, dumb, & blind demoniacs before our eyes. And by this we may judge, what grace God showeth to those kinds of people, out of when jesus Christ driveth the Devil, by the preaching of the gospel; that they might see the light of God, which without all comparison, is a great deal more to be desired; then the light of the Sun, and make them▪ hear the voice of their shepherd jesus Christ, and open their mouths to preach & declare his praise and glory. 
The grace, which God showeth to men, by the preaching of the gospel.  For, there is no harmony of the mouth, nor yet of musical instrument, to pleasant to the bodily ear, as the voice o● god is pleasant to the ears of the souls, of the children of God. And as this greatly delighteth them; to hear this so sweet and pleasant a voice, even so likewise is it as great a delight to them, to have their mouths open, to magnify and sanctify the name of God, 
What a cursed estate they are in, which are deprived of the gospel.  and to call upon him incessantly. And contrariwise, we may judge in what a cursed estate they are, who be deprived of this benefit of the Lord. For, it is even as much as if we saw the Devil visibly reign amongst the deaf, dumb, & blind, never ceasing tormenting of them, both in soul and body, more cruelly, than the most tormentious hangman in the world is able to devise to torment the most wicked man that might possibly be committed into his hands.  Tob. 
Assuredly, I do tremble when I think of that which thou speakest, and when I hear thee speak.  Theo. 
What wouldst thou then say, if thou shouldest see with thine own eyes, the thing as it is in deed? For, if the Infidels, and enemies of God could perceive and believe, that they were in this estate, no doubt of it, they would be more afeard of it then they are.  Tob. 
For mine own part, I verily think, that they would fully and wholly be contented to die, so that they might but only understand and lay hold of it.  Theo. 
Why then, if the estate of all such as remain in the darkness of error and ignorance, be so accursed, horrible, and fearful, yet for all this, there are none of all those which are in such estate, who are more accursed, than those whom God rejecteth, by reason they have contained his holy word, and to whom he sendeth his prophets and servants, to do that duty which the Lord committed to Isaiah, when as he said unto him, 
Isaiah. 6.  Go thy way, and tell this people, that in hearing they shall not understand, 
A prophesy of the hardening of their hearts, which contemn the gospel.  and in seeing, they shall not perceive. blockish the heart of this people, stop their ears, and close up their eyes, to the end, they may not see with their eyes, nor hear with their ears, nor yet understand with their hearts, that they may not be converted, and so be healed.  Toby. 
Surely, surely, this is a fearful prophesy.  Theo. 
By this we may evidently see, that even as God by his just judgement abandoneth the Demoniackes unto the Devil, over whom he gave them power, even so he abandoneth him, and dischargeth his hands of all such as contemn his gifts & grates, 
Exod. 4. 7. 8. 9 10.  to the end the devil might close up their eyes and ears, and so harden their hearts as he did pharao's, that they might perish accursedly, as they deserved and wished. For, seeing they took pleasure to blind themselves, because they would not see the light of the word of God, and stopped their ears, that they might not hear his voice, and hardened their hearts, that they might not believe the gospel, they well deserved, that God should forsake them.  Toby. 
Verily, these men might well be placed, amongst the blind, deaf, and dumb Demoniackes, save that I think they are not dumb to blaspheme the name of God.  Theo. 
If ever there were blind, deaf, and dumb Demoniacs in the world, these are they. And the greatest number of those, are they who so greatly glory of the knowledge of the gospel, & to be the people of God.  
And therefore this prophesy of isaiah, is alleged and rehearsed six times at the least in the new testament, as well by the four Evangelists, as also by Saint Paul. For, 
Mat. 13.  even as the preaching of Isaiah did blind and harden the hearts of those hypocrites, 
Mark. 4.  and rebels that were amongst the jews, 
Luke. 8.  not through the prophets fault, 
john. 12.  but through their own: 
Acts. 28.  even so was the preaching of jesus Christ, and of his Apostles, 
Rom. 11.  amongst them who in their days were like unto these, against whom Isaiah prophesied. And we see that this prophesy is daily accomplished▪ not only in Christian Papists, but also in such as greatly boast of the reformation of the Gospel: and more in them, then in any other beside, because they most villainously abuse the graces which God hath bestowed upon them. And therefore, because their unthankfulness is marvelous great, it is good reason their punishment should be the greater. Wherefore, it is not without just cause that this prophesy is so often repeated in the new Testament, more than any other that is in all the Books of the Prophets.  Tob. 
I beseech the Lord keep us by his grace, that we fall not into any such inconveniences, to the end we become not such desperate demoniacs. But what sayest thou now of Lunatic Devils? 
Lunatic Demoniackes.  For thou hast not as yet, set down thine opinion of them.  The. 
Although Saint Matthew calleth this Demoniac, 
Mat. 17.  only Lunatic, 
Mark. 9  yet Saint Mark saith, 
Luke. 9  that he was deaf also, and Saint Luke, 
The power which the Devil hath over young children, & what the causes thereof, are.  that he was dumb, and they all agree together, that he was even so from his infancy.  Tob. 
This is very strange, that the Devil should have such power over young children.  The. 
This is an example admonitatorie to us of many things, if we can well consider of them.  Tob. 
I pray thee tell me what things they are.  Theo. 
First of all, we are hereby to judge of the state & condition of our nature, and how corrupt and accursed it is, by reason of sin, seeing, that even from our infancy, the Devil hath such power over us. For, if young children were without ●in, the Devil should have no power over them, 
Original 〈◊〉.  no more than death which the devil hath begot 
Rom. 5.  through sin. And therefore, Saint Paul proveth, that because children die, that they are subject to original sin, 
Bede against jul.  and that they have already deserved punishment for the same in this their infancy. And so, some of the ancient doctors of the Church, take this example of the Lunatic infant, to prove the same, against all such as deny original sin, affirming, that young children are innocent, and without sin.  Tob. 
Surely, the reason of these ancient doctors is built upon a sound foundation.  Theo. 
If children then of this age deserve now such judgement at the hands▪ of God if God will judge them in rigour, we may soon have an estimate, what vengeance we daily deserve at the hands of God, considering, that we have not this natural corruption only in us, which we call Original sin, and is in young children, but that which is more, we continually carry about with us the cursed and damnable fruits, by which, we incessantly provoke the heavy wrath and displeasure of God against us.  Tob. 
This example ought to teach us, to humble ourselves unto the Lord our God, 
Mat. 6.  and incessantly pray unto him That he would not lead us into temptation, 
Luke. 11.  but deliver us from evil. And therefore we ought to be very watchful, and stand upon our guard, to the end he overtake us not upon the sudden. For, if this be so cruel an enemy unto young children, he sure, he will use no great courtesy unto us. And if GOD giveth him such liberty to hurt young children, out of doubt, he will never spare us, seeing that we have a great deal more deserved his fury and indignation, then young children?  Theo. 
Every man may understand this, if he will. But yet consider somewhat more in another point, of the malice of Satan. It appeareth by the words of Saint Luke, speaking of this miserable Lunatic, 
Luke. 9  that the Devil, 
Of the disease which this lunatic 〈◊〉 had.  tormented him not continually, but that he gave him some respite, although but a little. For, he setteth it down in these plain terms, that this Devil, would hardly departed from this wretched child. Whereupon, it must follow, that he departed sometimes from him.  Tob. 
Is this the cause, why the evangelists called him Lunatic.  Theo. 
I do not think, 
The falling sick●●●s.  that he was called Lunatic, because he had the falling sickness, which cometh by fits, as the Moon increaseth and decreaseth. For, because that this disease cometh of the infirmity of the brain, it therefore followeth the course of the moon. And again, because the brain is very cold and moist, it agreeth mightily with the nature of the Moon, which God hath created to be of such a nature, as that it might preserve cold and moist things, as he hath created the Sun to be of a hot and dry nature, that it might preserve the rest of the same condition, to the end, that all the creatures▪ of God, might be kept in order, which God in his Almighty providence hath disposed.  Tob. 
Is this the cause, why we also commonly call this disease, 
The hi● evil.  the high evil, and that we term them which are subject there to, to fall into the high evil?  Theo. 
That may be one cause thereof. For it cannot take a man hire, then by the head, or brain, when it taketh him in the head and brain, as that he falleth to the ground, as a Butcher knocketh an ox in the head. It is also said of this Lunatic infant, that the Devil cast him, and made him sometimes fall into the fire, and sometimes into the water, in such sort, as that it was marvel that he had not been killed a thousand times. It is likewise written, that he foamed at the mouth, and tore himself horribly.  Tob. 
All these accidents, do greatly follow the falling sickness. But it is namely set down, that the devil did all these things and not the disease.  Theo. 
The one of them is no let to the other. 
The Devil taketh occasion 〈◊〉 cause men hur● themselves, eue● by their own infirmities.  For although the Devil is the Governor and ruler of this doing, yet he taketh it from the infirmity and disease, where unto he knoweth this infant to be subject, and occasioneth him to do that evil to himself which he doth, and so serveth his turn therewith, for the exercising of his cruelty and malice towards him. And therefore, he watched and pried out the times and seasons, when this disease came again to this child, and he himself also hastened and furthered it as much as was possible. And therefore the Devil surpresed this child, when he knew that he should fall into the disease, to make him fall either into the fire or into the water, and so by that mean destroy him if he could. And therefore S. Luke saith, 
Luke. 9  that the Devil, with much a do, departed from this child.  Tob. 
I have already considered of two things which thou hast spoken. The First, is of that which hath heretofore been handled, as concerning the desire which the Devil hath to hurt the creatures of God, but especially men, as for example we have seen in the Legion of Devils, who entered into the Gergesites swine, after they had been driven out of the Demontacks.  The. 
What is that other point, which thou wouldst speak of?  Tob. 
It is even this, That I see the horrible judgement of God, and his great mercy together, in one and the self same person. For, although God had left this poor and miserable child unto the devil, yet he so bridled up the devil, as that he could not hurt the child as he would: but in good sort, in despite of all that the Devil could do. And God preserved this child, that jesus might heal him, at such time as he had appointed, to the end that his son jesus Christ might be glorified by him, and that the world might know what power he had, over the most wicked and terrible devils.  Theo. 
Now in very deed, this was very well considered, and spoken of thee, but yet there is some thing more to be noted, over & beside all this, and that is this, that seeing the devil taketh occasion to rush in upon men, 
The mean by which we suffer the devil to have access unto us.  through their infirmities, and corporal diseases, and so cruelly deal with them, we may very well consider, what occasion he might take, by the infirmities, diseases, and grievous sins which are in our souls, for the destroying of us eternally. And therefore we had need, very carefully look to ourselves, how by such means, we invite and bid him come to us.  Tob. 
Surely, me thinketh that we have a very manifest example of that which thou speakest, 
The example o● judas.  in judas. Because, the devil, seeing him inclined to covetousness, took occasion to enter into him, that ready & open way. For, as I take it, some of the Evangelists say, that Satan entered into him.  Theo. 
In deed, 
Luke. 22.  Saint Luke and S. john have so set it down. 
john. 13.  And although the Devil entered not into him to torment his body, as his custom is, to torment Demoniackes, yet he so tormented his soul, as that he drove him to that issue that he made him hang himself. 
judas a very devil.  And because he was so disloyal a Traitor, 
Mat. 27.  where he should have been an angel of God, 
Acts. 1.  unto the which estate jesus Christ had called him, 
john. 6.  our Saviour of very right and justly, 
Mala. 1.  did not only call him Demoniac, but even plain devil. For, seeing the true ministers of the Lord be called in the holy scriptures, 
Apoc. 2. 3.  the angels of god, them may they justly be held for devils, which abuse their office, and band themselves against God, where they should thereby honour him. 
The conversion ●f Angels into ●iuels.  For, herein they do the office of Devils, because they abuse their office, and the excellent gifts which God hath bestowed upon them.  To. 
Me thinketh, that this example should terrify all covetousmen, but especially, all the wicked ministers of the Church who make their ministery serve their covetoousnes. 
Covetousness.  For, the devil hath a jolly entrance into them.  Theo. 
Forsooth, it is very true. But chief into those, which sell and betray jesus Christ and his Church, through their covetousness.  
We might say as much of other vices, notwithstanding that this vice of covetonsnesse, is one of the chiefest, by which the Devil hath Lordship over us, & maketh us his slaves.  To. 
I pray thee, show me some other examples of Lunatic devils, tending to this purpose, and of the occasions, that the Devil taketh by our infirmities & sins to hurt us withal.  Theo. 
Contented, 
Eccle. 27.  It is written in the Book called Ecclesiastes: That the talk of a man which feareth GOD, is always wise: But a fool changeth as the Moon.  To. 
Why, then I perceive, we may very well place fools, 
Lunatic fools  amongst Lunatic men. And so by that reason, the number of Lunatics should be great, seeing that there is a great and infinite number of fools.  Theo. 
Howbeit, if they be both Lunatic and demoniacques: yea, deaf, dumb, and blind, they are the more dangerous fools. And yet we see almost nothing else before our eyes. For we shall see some of them, at one time or an other, seem to have a good liking of God, his word, and of virtue, and honesty. They have their moments, and fits, wherein they deal wonderfully, so that a man would think them to be become the honestest men in the world. And in the turning of an hand, they are so suddenly changed from better to worse, as that thou wouldst say, that the Devil was entered into their bodies, and so became Demoniacques.  
These men are such Demoniacques, 
Saul is left to the wicked spirit  as king Saul was. For, it is written of him, 
1 Sam. 16.  that after Samuel had anointed David, to be king over the people of God, in saul's steed, the good spirit of the Lord departed from Saul, and the evil spirit of the Lord tormented him. And shortly after, saul's servants, called this Spirit, the evil spirit of the Lord.  Toby. 
I take it, that the holy Scripture, so saith, understanding thereby, that the lord sent this wicked spirit, in his just judgement to punish him by him, as he had of long deserved.  Theo. 
There is no doubt of it. Whereupon thou art to note first of all, that the Hebrew word, which the holy scripture useth in this place, may be diversly interpreted. For, it may also be interpreted, that this wicked spirit, terrified, or choked, or puffed up, or else astonished Saul, and made him become blockish.  To. 
But, 
How the Devil hath daily great advantage over us.  before we talk any further of this wicked spirit, which came upon Saul, after that the good spirit of the Lord was departed from him. It hath heretofore been declared, that Saul was a great hypocrite, and a most glorious man, and an envious Rebel to God, and had so provoked God unto anger, 
1. Sam. 15. 17  as that he caused Samuel to tell him, 
1. Sam. 31.  that he should be bereaved of the kingdom, 
2. Sam. 11.  which he had given him, as in deed it was. And the cause why GOD gave him over unto the wicked spirit, came by reason thereof.  
Now, Saul was not so wicked and cursed, before such time as the wicked spirit had taken possession in him, neither was he any right Demoniacque, without he kept it more close before, then afterward he did.  
And therefore, how are we to understand this, that the good spirit of the Lord departed from Saul, and that the wicked spirit came upon him, in the steed of the good?  Theo. 
The example of judas, of whom we have so often spoke, may serve us to great purpose, for the resolving of us in this question.  
For, 
john. 6.  when jesus Christ said, that judas was a Devil, there is no doubt, but that the Devil reigned in the heart of judas before. But because that judas continually more and more abused the gifts and graces of God, and grew worse & worse, where he should have waxed better & better, he made the way more open and plain, for the Devil to enter into him.  
Wherefore S. john setteth it down, that the Devil put it in judas heart, to beetray jesus Christ: 
john. 13.  and afterward he saith, as S. Luke said, 
Luke. 22.  that Satan entered into him.  
It was not meant by the Evangelists, but that the Devil was in him before, and namely, when he began to murmur against the woman, who had spent her precious ointment upon jesus Christ. 
Math. 26.  But their meaning is, 
Mark. 14.  that we should understand, that the Devil at that time, 
john. 12.  had taken larger possession in the heart of judas, and had greater power over him, insomuch that he was master of all, as experience afterward manifestly declared.  Toby. 
Thy meaving then is, that it fared even so with Saul.  Theo. 
True in deed, for the thing is most apparent.  
For, even as judas did a great deal worse, after such time as S. Luke and S. john spoke, that the Devil was entered into his heart, so that judas was then come even unto the fullness of all iniquity & wickedness: Even so fell it also out with Saul, after that the good spirit of the Lord was gone from him, and he left unto the wicked spirit. For, before that, the good spirit of the Lord, caused him to do many good things, although Saul had not a true and sound heart. Howbeit, although he did himself no good, yet did he good to others, considering the estate wherein he was. But, after that the good spirit of the Lord, had wholly given him over to Satan, a man might have seen him grow worse, daily and hourly, so that he never rested, until such time as he had ●illed the measure of all wickedness, and for a man of his degree & quality, made even as shameful an end, as judas did. For, after that Saul had committed the very worst deeds that he could possibly devise, against God, and against his servant David, the Devil at last egged him so far forth, as that he destroyed himself with his own hands.  Toby. 
This is a fearful example of God's heavy vengeance, 
1 Sam. 31.  especially upon so noble a parsonage. 
God plagueth the most mighty kings for their transgressions.  For, if God spare not kings and Princes, we are not to look that he will spare any others whatsoever.  Theo. 
It is so far off, that he spareth great kings, and mighty potentates, because they are of great magnificence, as that he punisheth them with more grievous, notable and fearful tortures, than any of all the rest of his people. For, by how much the more he hath made them great and excellent, by so much the more are they unthankful unto his majesty, when as they abuse his graces. And again, there are no enemies of God, which more dishonour him, & do greater hurt unto all men, by their evil examples, and less punished by men, than they which are in the greatest authority. And therefore it cannot be chosen, but that God himself must arise to execute justice upon them, seeing that none else will, or can do it: And he must needs cause them make a public amends, for all the horrible and grievous offences, which they have heretofore committed, and still daily do.  Toby. 
To say truly, he handleth them very roughly, when he once beginneth to lay his hand on them.  Theo. 
But amongst all the rest, 
The Imitators of Saul.  whom the example of Saul ought most to terrify, are all glorious, proud, envious, and hypocritical men, and all tyrants, but especially, those kinds of men, 
What a grievous thing it is for a man to sin against his own conscience.  who fight against their own consciences, and persecute such as they know to be most innocent. For, Saul, was subject to all these vices. But, he most manifestly showed, what great power the Devil had over him, when as he so openly fought against his own conscience, which oftentimes enforced him to accuse & condemn his own self, for the injuries and wrongs which he had done unto David. For, how often was he enforced to say, that he was a vile and wicked man, and had done great injury to David, 
1. Sam. 24. 26.  and that David was innocent, and a far honester man than himself? And who enforced him this to do, but the very power of the truth, and his own conscience, which drove him to it, as if he had been racked to do it? he right well knew, that he did wickedly, and that he manifestly fought against God, and yet for all this, he no whit amended himself: but still became more traitorous, fierce & cruel, without any regard, either to GOD, justice or equity, than any brute and furious beast.  
But when he made such a jolly confession of his sins, a man would have thought, that he had been very penitent, and altogether converted. A man would have thought that he had been come again to his right wits, and that he had been very well disposed to have done much better, then before time he had. But he was immediately after, quite and clean altered, and did worse, then before he had done. Insomuch, that at the very same instant, wherein he used these speeches, declaring the innocency of David, he took his javelin, & thought if he had could to have run David through with it, 
1. Sam. 18. 24▪ 26.  with his own hands, and afterward caused him to be sought for all over, to have put him to death.  Tob. 
Surely, herein he right well showed, that he was a very Demoniac, and most Lunatic.  Theo. 
We see a great number of such. For, there are an exceeding mighty number of those, who, after they have long time fought against their own consciences, have some remorse thereof. But forsomuch as GOD forsaketh them, because they have forsaken him, the Devil their master, who hath so great power and dominion over them, hath no more stay of them, then of senseless and mad men. And therefore they altar their minds every hour. And if it so fall out, as that they sometimes light on the right side, they by & by tumble over again unto the other side, so that, the moon changeth not so often as they do. But this is the nature of all such as are subject to the devil. For, after any furious & mad spirit hath once got possession of them, they are never long in one mind. Tob. Thou hast already spoken of many great vices which greatly haunt us, that make us subject unto him.  The. 
It is said, that the devil many times cast the Lunatic one while into the fire, 
Who they are, w●om the devil overthroweth▪ and maketh them fall into the fire.  & another while into the water. Now, when the devil eggeth us forward, so that he causeth us to fall into the sin of covetousness, he casteth us into a far more dangerous fire, then if he did cast us into a material fire. For, 
The fire of Covetousness.  covetousness, is such a fire, as is impossible to be quenched, by reason of that which is cast into it, but burneth still more & more. Wherefore the covetous men burn continually in this fire, and consume therein much of that that is cast in, with them.  Tob. 
If they were cast in into a material fire, they should be discharged for being burnt any more. Howbeit, these men, of whom thou speakest, are in a far worse estate, then if they were burnt but in a small fire.  Theo. 
We might likewise say as much of Whoremongers. 
The fire of whoredom and Lechery.  For Lechery is a fire also, and as hard to be quenched, as the fire of covetousness. And how many do we daily see cast into this infernal fire by the devil, who are there cruelly roasted both body & soul. But there are a marvelous great number, especially, of these Lunatic Demoniackes, whom the devil very often casteth into this fire of whoredom and lechery, amongst the supposts of the popish Church, who had rather burn in it, contrary to the counsel of Saint Paul, 
The contempt of marriage punished.  and the express commandment of God, then marry, and find water in holy marriage to remedy it, 
1. Cor. 7  whereby they might quench this fire, and so be rid of it. But they had rather have the devil keep them there, 
Gen. 1. 2.  than they would serve God in that estate which he hath ordained from the beginning. 
Math. 19   Tob. 
But, what are they, whom the devil maketh thus fall into the water?  Theo. 
Why man, there are an exceeding number of them. We may place in this rank, all voluptuous and licentious persons, 
Who they are whom the devil causeth to fall into the water.  who suffer themselves to overflow as it were water, in their pleasures & delights. And therefore they make this entry for the Devil to enter into them, to the end he might plunge and drown them over head and ears, so that they should never be able to come out again. To be short, if we would discourse of this matter more at large, we should find, that the most part of us, are thus daily dealt withal by the Devil, who handleth us not only as he handled the miserable Lunatic, but a great deal more cruelly. For there is no comparison between the harms which the Devil is able to do to the bodies, and those whom he incessantly hurteth in their souls.  Tob. 
Seing we have talked so long, of so many sorts of Demoniackes, I would gladly now know of Jerome, what he were able to say to this matter, considering he hath so long heard us, & never spoke word which I marvel of. And me thinketh also that he is about to leave his silence, and to say somewhat.  jer. 
Surely, thou and Theo. have said so much, as that you have left me no great matter to talk of. 
A story of a woman Demoniacke that was never satisfied with money.  But I will tell you a Tale which once I hard done by a woman Demoniacke, who differeth far from those sorts of Demoniackes, of whom thou hast before spoken.  Tob. 
Thou wouldst fain tell us here some fable and old wives tale, to make us forget all the doctrine whereout we might gather some good matter, of the talk which we heretofore have had,  jer. 
I will tell thee, they that told me this history, told it not unto me for a fable, but for a true history. And for mine own part, I verily believe, that they counterfeited not the matter. And put the case it were a counterfeit thing, yet shall it turn to good purpose, as concerning those matters, whereof you have talked.  Tob. 
Thou shouldest have gone on with thine history, whiles we have entertained thee with these great promises. And therefore let us now hear it.  jer. 
First of all, it was told me that this history happened in Almaigne, and that this Demoniac was so liquorous of money, as never jack Daw had greater delight in it. For she would no sooner come near any man, but that her hand was suddenly upon his purse or money bag if he had any, that she could find. And if she had once fingered it, she would have so lustily bestirred her, and so suddenly have put the Gold or silver which she had fingered unto her mouth, as that a man could not have been so wary of her, but that she would have more suddenly have licked it in.  Tob. 
I promise thee, this was a marvelous strange Devil. Why, those which we commonly call Saracens, or Egyptians, or else Bohemians, are nothing skilful in respect of this Devil, no nor yet the jack Dawes, who are the notablest thieves for money that may be, and will sometimes as quickly dispatch it. But what became of this Demoniac in the end?  jero. 
I understood by them who told me the tale, that Luther was asked his opinion of her. For he was then alive, when as this matter fell so out. And the place wherein this thing happened, is not far from the place where Luther dwelled: but I do not well remember the name which was told me.  Tob. 
It is no matter for the name of the place. But tell us if thou canst, what Luther's answer was, as touching this demoniac, to those which asked his counsel herein.  jer. 
I understood, that he told them, that it was an advertisement of God to the Almains, and to all the world beside, that the devil Mammon was unchained & let lose, 
God Mamm● reigning in th● world.  and reigned in the world, and was now more unsatiable than ever he had been before, and therefore left neither purse nor bag unryfled. And that although he had drawn dry all purses and bags, and licked up all the gold and silver within them, yet could he not be through full: For it is an unsatiable gulf which never crieth hoe.  Tob. 
What meanest thou by this devil Mammon?  jer. 
That covetousness, whereof the devil himself is both God and father.  Tob. 
Indeed, me thinketh that Luther hit it rightly. And if so be there had been no such thing, but a feigned matter, for sport, yet it carrieth a good sense with it, for we daily see before our eyes, the practice whereof Luther spoke, both in all countries, and also in all estates, and therefore the Almains are not to be only charged therewith. For, we are able to say without counterfeiting, that there is a devilish covetousness all the world throughout. And if a man should consider well of the matter, we should see covetousness, to be a very right she Devil, and maketh men become he Devils, & maketh such a number of Demoniacs as the woman was, of whom thou erst spakest, and begetteth such a number of great & little Devils, to play this pageant, as that the whole world is nothing else but a devilry, altogether divelished.  Jerome. 
This was that she devil which chief made judas such a Devil, as thou hast said he was, and so, never sithence that ever she ceased hatching and bringing forth of such like as herself, who are the greatest hinderers of the course of the gospel, which any way might come unto it.  Tob. 
We are then in a jolly country, when as we be in such an hell, and have to do with so many sorts of Demoniackes and Devils.  jer. 
The danger is not so great to have to do with them, as it is to be one of the number.  Tob. 
I right well know thy meaning. And therefore the hardest matter for us resteth herein, to find the means how to avoid all these inconveniences, to wit, how we may first keep ourselves, from falling into these mischiefs. The second is, as touching the mean, whereby we may eschew the hurt which these devils and Demoniackes might do us.  jer. 
That, which thou hast spoken of, is the very best and chiefest: For, to what purpose were it for a man to understand the disease, without a man did think to get necessary remedies for the healing thereof, and it were to small purpose to think of them without a man were sure to find them.  Tob. 
In very deed it would serve to none other end, but the more to torment the party grieved, and make him become more desperate.  jer. 
And therefore the very best way will be, that at our first meeting together, we travel and go about this matter.   

The Title and effect of the sixth Dialogue, of the Demoacke world.  
THis sixth Dialogue is entitled, The conjuration of devils, because in it, is set forth, which way to drive out Devils which rule and torment the world. whereupon, those remedies are spoken of, which Saul sought after, that he might be rid of that wicked spirit which tormented him, and of the remedies which Infidels, and wicked men hunt after, for such diseases as come unto them, and how men have recourse unto creatures, whereas in truth they should run unto God.  
Of the cause of Saul his madness, and of the right remedy that was used for the same.  
Of the blockish and witching spirit which God sendeth unto us in his just judgement.  
For what cause, fasting and prayer are available, for the driving out of devils.  
How very necessary a thing the increase of faith is.  
Of the true use of fasting, and of the abuse thereof.  
Of gluttony & drunkenness, cloaked under the title of the liberty of the Gospel, and namely in the person of the Magistrates, and ministers of the church.  
Of the devils force, when he is to be put out of his lodging.  
Of the victory which jesus Christ hath against him.  
Of the principal and most necessary knowledge that is wanting in man, & of his unthankfulness, as well towards God, as also unto to those to whom of duty he is bound.   

The sixth Dialogue of the Demoniac world, entitled, The Conjuration of Devils.  Jerome, Toby, Eustace, Theophrast. Jerome. 
THou desiredst (Toby) to understand what remedies there were to keep us, not only from becoming to be Demoniacs, but also to be defended from taking any hurt either by the devils, or by the demoniacs whom the devils possess and rule.  Tob. 
Very true. And therefore I am here now ready to hear what fit remedies thou haste brought me for the purpose: For I right well know, that all the Priests, Friars, and Charmers Conjurations, and all the Conjurers that be in the world, will little or nothing avail, without there be some other helping hand than theirs.  jer. 
Why man, thou must not look that the devils and Demoniackes conjure one another.  Tob. 
Why speakest thou that?  jer. 
Because, if there be any men in the whole world, over whom the devils reign and have power, they are the people, of whom thou erst speakest. And therefore if there be any who of right are to be taken for Demoniackes, even those kinds of men, of whom we heretofore spoke, are to be looked for amongs the men of that Court. For they are such demoniackes, as that they make all men else very demoniackes also, what with their false doctrine, traditions, and by mean of that wicked spirit which guideth and governeth them. For, seeing they are the guyders and Governors of others, it cannot be chosen, but that they which are guided and governed by them, must needs be led by that spirit, which guideth & governeth their leaders and Governors.  Tob. 
I doubt that Eustace, will not yield unto that thy opinion.  jer. 
I care not whether he will yield to it or not, yet I am sure it is true that I have said.  Eust, 
If thou wilt needs have it so, I shall but lose time to speak against thee. And therefore I shallbe contented to hear, what Conjurers they are that thou canst bring forth for thy part, and see what greater virtue they have more, than those whom thou hast deciphered, and so greatly blamed.  jer. 
Me thinketh Toby, that Theo. hath showed unto us a most excellent remedy against this mischief, which is so greatly to be feared: so that in my opinion, if we take it, we shall never need any other.  Tob. 
A understand right well, that he hath sent us back to jesus Christ, to seek this mean and remedy at his hand. And surely for mine own part I would never go any further.  Theo. 
Saul very diligently sought after it, but because he went not to God, to whom he ought to have gone, he never found that comfort and remedy against his disease, that he looked for.  Tob. 
What remedy was that? 
1. Sam. 16.   Theo. 
His servants made him believe that it was best for him to have some cunning Musician, 
The counsel which saul's servants gave him.  which could play excellently upon an harp. And he thought this, to be very good counsel. Whereupon, he forthwith sent to have such an one gotten him: and at last, David was brought to him to play this part, for he had therein, most excellent skill,  Tob. 
What reason had they to do thus?  Theo. 
There was great likelihood, that the servants which gave Saul this counsel, as the history witnesseth, were his Physicians, who had met together to consult of his disease. 
What remedies the wicked hunt after, when they are diseased.  For, when any sickness, or other inconvenience falleth upon the wicked, they never consider, that it is the hand and rod of the Lord that is laid upon them, without they be enforced thereto, with the great blows of a maul, as was laid upon Pharaoh and the Egyptians. 
Exod. 12.  And therefore, where they should look up unto heaven, they still look groveling down to the earth, and run rather unto creatures, then unto the Creator.  
And again, they that are about them, & like them, never give them other direction. Wherefore, when Saul was not well at ease, he must needs send for remedy for his disease. And his most excellent remedy had been, to have sent for some sound Prophet or Preacher, to have told Saul of the grievous and great sins which he had committed, whereby the wicked spirit had so great power over him, to torment him as he did: For, by these and such like speeches, he must needs have been brought to repentance, and so have fled to the mercies of God, whereby he might have obtained his favour, and remission of his sins: for, if he had grown to an atonement with God, through true and faithful repentance, he should have found at God's hands, that remedy that was most necessary for him. For, that God, who had stricken him in his just judgement, could, and also would, have healed him in mercy. But because that Saul, had so long dallied with God, & persevered so long in his wicked doing, contrary to his own conscience, as that god would not once vouchsafe to give him that grace to have recourse unto him, nor suffer him have any man in his Court, & about him, to give him that counsel.  Toby. 
I do not think this counsel, to be the best counsel that might have been given him: 
We 〈◊〉 to creatures for aid, rather than unto God.  howbeit, this is the very ordinary course, which we almost all take, to run rather unto Physicians, and seek remedy at the hands of Creatures, then unto God, the most excellent Physician of all.  Theo. 
I do not think it amiss, to use Physicians, and all other means whatsoever that men are able to help withal, so that they be ordained of God.  
But herein resteth the fault, that we forsake GOD, and run unto Creatures: But if we run unto GOD, yet have we more confidence in men, & in the creatures, and in the means and instruments, which he hath ordained, then in God the framer and worker of all, without whom, all the instruments are able to do nothing.  
And therefore it is written of king Aza, that GOD took away his life from him, because that in his sickness, 
1. Chron. 16.  he trusted more unto his Physicians, than he did unto GOD. Now, if God punished those, who used such remedies as he had ordained, when as they put their confidence in that, which they should have done in him, we ought not to marvel, although he severely dealeth with many, who are not contented to abuse the means which he hath ordained, but seek after other means, which he hath forbidden, & put therein their whole trust.  To. 
They which have recourse to the Devil, and unto Charmers, and Sorcerers, who are his Ministers, direct themselves to other Physicians and means than GOD hath ordained.  Theo. 
Neither do these men escape the heavy hand of GOD, although he be slow in coming, nor yet they which run unto Idols, and to strange Gods.  Toby. 
But I pray thee tell me, whether Music hath any power against such kind of madness as saul's was, 
Music, a remedy against madness.  or not? For, it is to be presumed, that they which gave Saul counsel, to send for a cunning Musician, where of this opinion.  Theo. 
There are many Melancholic, and frantic people, whom Music serveth as a medicine, because it rejoiceth and tempereth men's affections, and thereby draweth away their imaginations else whether, if it be used as it should be. But saul's madness proceeded not only of a lad and melancholic humour, either yet upon anger and wrath. But the principal cause was supernatural: And therefore, although he found himself somewhat comforted and eased, when David played upon the Harp, yet continued he still in his madness, yea insomuch that he still enforced himself to thrust through David, his Musician.  
And therefore he was to look for remedy some where else. For, saul's madness proceeded from the curse of god, 
The cause of saul's madness.  wherewith he threateneth all such as will not obey his law, 
Deut. 28.  that he will strike them with blindness, fury, and madness: in such a sort, as that he will make them senseless, that they shall be no more able to guide and govern themselves, 
The spirit of fury and blockishness.  than those blind men, that grope by the walls at noon days.  Toby. 
Surely, this is an horrible and very fearful threat.  Theo. 
All the rest of the Prophets, which lived after Moses, threatened the like curse and vengeance, namely to tyrants, their Counsellors and officers, 
Isaiah. 19  when as they threatened them, 
Oseah. 4. 5.  that God would send amongst them, 
john. 6. 12  a blockish, sleepy, & drunken spirit.  To. 
I think, that foolish and wicked Counsels, which greatly hurt Princes, their courts, and principalities, proceed from such a spirit.  Theo. 
That is questionless. For, seeing they make no account of the counsel of God, which he delivereth unto them by his word, and servants, they are worthy of such counsellors as are led with such a spirit: 
1. Kings. 22.  As the false Prophets of Achab: who were, by the just judgement of God, sent unto him, to deceive him, as he had well deserved.  To. 
Thou wouldst then thus conclude, that there is no sufficient Physician, to deliver or rid men of such inconveniences, save the most excellent Physician of al.  Theo. 
Our saviour jesus Christ, yielding a reason, 
Mat. 17.  why his Disciples were not able to heal the Lunaticque, 
Fasting & prays requisite for the casting out of Devils.  told them, that that sort of devils could not be cast out, but by fasting and prayer.  Toby. 
Why said he so?  Theo. 
He himself declared that sufficiently enough, when as he as well rebuked his Disciples, as also the father of the Lunaticque, for their incredulity, giving them thereby to understand, that, that was the cause, why his Disciples were not able to cast out that devil, albeit they had used all the skill and cunning they had. Wherefore, seeing it was for want of faith, 
Increase of faith necessary.  it was requisite, that their faith should be increased. And this could not be had, but by the grace of God. For, faith is the gift of GOD: And therefore, as we cannot have it without him, no more also can it be increased but by him alone. And therefore, jesus Christ exhorted his Disciples, 
Ephe. 2.  to pray that it might be increased in them. Wherefore, 
john. 6.  sith it is so, we must address us unto GOD, by hearty and faithful prayer. And prayer can in no wise please him, without it come from the soul and heart.  
And because that abstinence or fasting, 
The right use of fasting.  greatly availeth the soul or mind, forsomuch as being less pressed by the body, it is better disposed towards God: therefore the servants of GOD, have commonly joined abstinence and fasting with their prayers, when as they would address themselves unto his Majesty, for any things of great importance, and be more fervent in prayer, according as the necessity of the cause required. And therefore, jesus Christ meaning to let his Disciples understand, that they had great need to pray unto GOD, for the increase of their faith, and that fasting, greatly availed unto prayer, because it was of great efficacy: he joined fasting with prayer, when as he spoke of faith that was to be required, for the casting out of this kind of wicked, and most cruel Devils.  Toby. 
I do not much marvel, that there are this day so few Conjurers, which are able to cast out of the world those devils, of whom we have heretofore so much spoken. For, there are but a few men, very earnest in prayer. And as for fasting; the number is less, especially amongst you, who so greatly glory of the Reformation of the Gospel: For, you are not contented yourselves not to fast: but, which is worse, 
The abuse of fa●ting condemned.  you scorn them that fast, and condemn them for superstitious people, and hypocrites.  Theo. 
I know right well, that thou takest great pleasure to be merry with us, or else thou speakest of our doctrine according as thou haste heard our adversaries talk, who can never speak well of it, and yet never either heard or yet understood it: or, if ever they heard it and understood it, they speak ill of it against their own consciences. For, who ever heard us more condemn fasting and abstinence, then true prayer, and all other good works, which God alloweth and liketh of.  Toby. 
Wherefore then fast you not in Lent, the four Ember days, the Vigiles, and other fasting days, commanded by the Church.  Theo. 
If we condemn the superstitious and importable abuses, 
What true fast are.  which the Papists use in their fasts, we do not for all that comdemne the true fasts, that are according to the word of GOD, and according to the right rule of the ancient Fathers and true servants of God: But contrariwise, we greatly desire, to have the right use of those fasts, to be brought into the Church. For, there is great difference between correcting the abuses, & the abolishing of good things which men have abused. And as for the common fasts, there are no preachers which more commend than, nor who more grievously reprove and condemn gluttony, drunkenness, and all dissoluteness, or looseness of life, as well for eating and drinking, as also for all other things, than the true Ministers of the Gospel, reprove and condemn them.  Toby. 
I do verily think, that that which thou sayest is true, but I find few which follow that doctrine. For, I see many of your side, who are no better reform, 
Gluttonny and drunkenness, cloaked under the title of the liberty of the Gospel.  without, where peradventure they might at the least have fasted sometimes, so long as they held our law: who now, not only never fast, but commonly surfeit both in eating and drinking, as if they had received the Gospel for none other purpose, but to surfeit at pleasure, and make a scorn at all abstinence and sobriety.  Theo. 
I must needs confess, that there are over many such. And I will confess more unto thee then that. For, if this mischief, whereof thou speakest, were but in some of the meaner sort, it were less to be lamented. But the greatest mischief of all the rest is this, that there are a great number of ministers and magistrates, who are more licentiously given to this kind of vice of trowling and bowling, than those men, whom they ought to correct for such offences. For these are the special men, whom a man shall ordinarily find in the Caverns and Tippling houses, as if their chiefest occupation were to troll and bowl, & provoke others to all looseness.  Tob. 
I have heard it oftentimes spoken, 
Of the Gluttony and drunkenness of magistrates and ministers.  that there are many of the chiefest of your officers amongst you, who take great pleasure to give the ministers, which will play the good fellows alittle, their lading (as we say). And these officers think, that they have made a great conquest, when as they have a minister drunk, as it too too often falleth out. And I doubt not, but that Jerome hath heard as great news of this as I.  Theo. 
I know more of this, than I gladly would, & I cannot hear it spoken of, but to their great shame which do, and continue such villainies. But it is easily to be seen, what manner of men these ministers and officers are, who thus honestly behave themselves, thou mayst right well say, That Rowland and Oliver are well met. For, because these officers, are men of wicked life and conversation, and fear that the Ministers would reprove them of their sins: They are the gladdest men in the world, when they can get in their Ministers to bowl with them, to the end thereby to bridle them, that they should not be over grievous in accusing and reprehending of them. For, when these Ministers or rather minstrels, have well wet their whistle, they, over whom they are Pastors, do assure themselves then, that they will not be too eager upon them. And again, these cup whistling minstrels, have no regard, to much crying out, because they fear that some man would accuse them, if they should displease those who were witnesses of their trolling and bolling, & the rest of their vices whereunto they are subject.  Tob. 
If the case thus standeth, I dare assure thee, that you have very venerable Apepostles, to cast out all the Devils by fasting and prayer, which at this present so greatly trouble the world. And if there were no Devils at all in the whole world, these good fellows, in steed of casting of them out, would bring them in. Wherefore, I do not much marvel, although the Devils have so great power of these drunkards and gluttons of all sorts and estates, and namely, over those ministers & magistrates who rise early in the morning, not to go to a Sermon, but to the Tavern and there drink a dutant, what sayest thou to it Theophraste?  Theo. 
This I say unto it, that that land, and common weal is accursed, which hath gluttonous & drunken magistrates & pastors, 
Eccle. 10.  & rise up in the morning to follow drunkenness until they are hot with wine. 
Isaiah. 5.  And therefore, seeing that all vices reign in the world, & more amongst them, which should correct and punish them, then amongst any of the rest, it is no marvel, though there be so many devils & Demoniacs every where, as are. But such as fear the Lord, have a very good recourse. 
What devices and means th● Devil hath which is to be displaced.  In very deed, it will be a hard matter to make those devils depart from them, but yet they shall, will they, nil they, be displaced, because Christ layeth his hand on as he did upon the miserable Lunatic. For, 
Mat. 17.  when jesus Christ was in place, it was so far of that the wicked spirit would depart from this poor child, 
Mark. 6.  as that he became more mad in him. 
Luke. 9  And so likewise, when these Devils, and demoniackes that they possess which are now in the world, feel the Gospel come near them, and begin to hear the voice thereof, they are even as mad, as if a man should sound out the Trumpet, to assault them, and give them the alarm. And, as the Devil went not out of the Lunatic, until such time as he had first tried all his forces against jesus Christ: No more will he be displaced of these Rooms, which he hath gotten possession of, without strong and mighty combats. And all the while that the Devil so furiously resisted jesus Christ, the devil a great deal more tormented the poor Lunatic, than ever he did before, insomuch, that he lay before jesus Christ, as if he had been dead.  Tob. 
He did that, to vex the poor father, of that so very a miserable child, and because he had so little faith, his incredulity was the reason, why this child was no sooner healed. For it seemed, that the presence of jesus Christ, did him more hurt then good.  Theo. 
It might seem that jesus Christ came thither, 
Victory against the devil, after he had been driven, to his last shifts.  to give the Devil greater power, to the end he might finish that work which he so long before traveled about, which was, to kill this poor miserable child. For, every man thought the child to be dead, when the Devil left him. Howbeit, it fell out clean contrary. For, when it was thought, that he was stark dead, he was quite and clean delivered of the Devil, and made through whole.  
Now, we see that the like of this falleth out daily, we see how the Devil troubleth and tormenteth the world, especially in those places, out of which he knoweth he shall be cast. For, he than falleth into such a rage, as that a man would think that the Gospel, by which mean jesus Christ will cast him out, had set open all the gates of hell, to let out all the Legions of Devils that were in it. For, than he fretteth and fumeth, and maketh as many as he hath power over, to fret and fume. To be short, he so terrifieth the whole world, yea, the valiancest and most constant, as that a man would think it should be utterly consumed and come to nought. But even then, when we think it should be clean wasted and destroyed, our Saviour jesus Christ, showeth himself to be far stronger than he. And therefore, we must not stand in a maze when we see the troubles and persecutions, which the Devil and his retinue stir up in the world, when as they feel jesus Christ come near them, to cast them out through the power of his gospel. We have none other thing to do but to remain steadfast and constant, and do that duty that appertaineth unto every of us: and so leave the charge of all the rest of the things unto our Lord jesus Christ, who will never forsake us, nor yet suffer the devil to reign amongst us.  Tob. 
I tell you, it is most necessary that he should put to his helping hand. For there is none else to withstand the devils power, nor yet stay and came such an enemies, whom, never man was able to vanquish, but he alone. For, so far forth as I am able to understand by the talk that we have had together, we are not only in worse estate, and more intractable and raging then bruit beasts, but also then the very Demoniackes. Whereupon, I can not sufficiently enough marvel at our nature. For, we are of that nature and condition, that we can skill so do any thing, but that which should be for our benefit, 
Man can do any thing, save that which he ought chiefliest to do.  & most necessary for us. For, there is neither Art, Science, practice, nor yet occupation whatsoever, which we have not devised, and can do it, and teach others also, saving the art to live well, which we brag to teach to every one, and yet are not able to teach ourselves, but much less able to practise it. For, there is almost, no beast so savage, cruel, furious, or villainous howsoever, but that man by Art, is able to vanquish, tame, and master, and make familiar and gentle: But it is a wonder to see that he is not able to find out any Art, 
Man a conqueror of all things but of himself  Science, Practice, nor weapons, to vanquish, came, and master himself, and to overcome and subdue his own affections.  
Horses and Moils are with much a do brought to it: But yet hath man found the mean to handle them, and make them do him service, in a short time. Bulls and Oxen are mighty and strong: and yet man teacheth them to bear the yoke, and draw in the Cart. The Elephants likewise are most terrible: and yet man maketh them bear as great a burden as he lusteth. Wolves and Bears, are very cruel: and yet man maketh them tractable. Lions are very fierce, proud, cruel, and terrible: and yet man maketh them humble themselves, and obey him. 
There is disagreement between the husband and the wife.  Contrariwise, I see too often that the husband is not able to master his wife, nor the wife, her husband, that they might live quietly together: although she be flesh of his flesh, 
Gen. 2, 3.  and bone of his bones, and live long time together, 
Ephe. 5.  both in one house, 
Gen. 1. 2.  and eat their meat together, both at one Table, and lie both in one bed, and which is more, are one body, and one blood. If man than cannot live with himself, with his own flesh, and his own blood, with whom will he live? If he cannot love his wife, whom God hath made of his own substance, and hath given her unto him, for his aid and comfort, whom will he love? Likewise, if the wife cannot humble herself and fit herself, 
Ephe. 5.  to agree with her husband, whom God hath given her, to be her head, and framed her out of his body, with whom will she agree, and who shall be able to abide her? There is great contrariety betwixt dogs and Cats, yea such a natural hatred, as is not almost to be reconciled. And so likewise, between Wolves and Sheep: Lions and Oxen: And yet if they had been brought up together from their youth, their bringing up and company keeping, which they had had together, would work some power and efficacy to despoil them something of their nature, & so join themselves in unity together: Although they be beasts of sundry kinds, and marvelously differing, and contrary one to another. What sayest thou to this Jerome?  jerom. 
Me thinketh, it fareth with men, 
A similitude o● unthankful men.  as it fareth with flies and swallows, who are always lodged amongst men, and lie in their houses, and yet for all that, a man is not able to master them: for, the swallow buildeth her nest in his house, and layeth her eggs there, and hatcheth up her young ones. Man, bestoweth house room on her, & they both sleep under one roof, and yet there is no familiarity between them, neither yet live they one with another. And in the end the Swallow leaveth nothing else to the good man of the house for his house rent, but her filthy dung, after she hath continued there a great while, and broken him of many a sleep with her chattering and chirping. And therefore Tully rightly compared swallows to false and unfaithful friends. 
Tully in his 4. Trooke to Herens.  For, as the Swallows make them ready to come in the Spring, and then depart when cold weather cometh in: Even so will false friends stand by us so long as the weather is fair and clear, but when they see the winter of mishap come upon us, they fly away from us every eachone. And therefore it was not amiss said of Pythagoras, 
Pythagoras Creed.  to forbid men of receiving the swallow under their roof.  Tob. 
What meant Pythagoras by that.  Theo. 
His meaning was, 
Plutarch.  that it is not good to be familiarly acquainted with jang, lers, 
Quest. li. 8.  slanderers, and unthankful persons-who are rightly represented by the Swallow. For, a man shall never get any good by them, but sorrow, grief, hurt, and dishonour. And is not the fly likewise I pray you, always in the kitchen? The first at the Table, the first in the dish, and tasteth all the meats we eat of. Yea, they will do it, although we were Emperors and Kings, and more than this to: They take assay oftentimes before the cook.  jer. 
But what favour find we by them for all the benefits which they daily have at our hands, in our houses. What wage & reward have we of them?  Tob. 
This we have, they grieve and bewray with their dirt, whatsoever fair and beautiful thing that is within the house.  jer. 
And more than that, for they engender vermin and corruption, never ceasing to importune, sting, and bite us, even till the blood follow withal, and are never contented with all the benefits that we bestow on them, without they also suck & drink our blood.  Tob. 
These Flies are far more dangerous than man, and a great deal more unthankful. I see fathers and mothers also daily, that cannot agree with their children, but after, that those fathers and mothers have wasted the odours, and fumes of the odours, which are continually about their children, and dandeled them, and have been grieved and vexed, 
The great unthankfulness of ●ome children, ●owardes their parents.  and had many a foul hand with them in the bringing of them up: so soon as these children have been grown up to ripe years, they would not once acknowledge either father or mother: They would neither see them, nor bear with them: but drive them oftentimes, out of the house: or else their parents were enforced to drive them out, by reason of their rebellion and wicked dealing. I never saw any such unthankfulness, nor cruelty between Dogs and Cats, Wolves and Lymmers, Lions and Lions whelps. I have seen these Landleapers, 
Landleapers.  who have lead all the countries over, Lions, Bears, Apes, Asses, Horses, and many other sorts of beasts, and ruled them as they listed. For, they would make them do whatsoever they pleased, and commanded them. They have made them dance, leap, lie still, stand up, touch on the ground, make courtesy, march march with a pike, and wind a flat. To be short, I am not able to tell you in a longtime, how many sundry things they have taught them, and made them do. For, they taught them to do all things. What is the cause then, why man is so well able to instruct the most unteachable bruit beasts, and do learn of him, and yet he himself, not able to teach himself, nor yet learn of himself that, that is necessary for him to learn, and without the which, he is in deed no man?  jerom. 
No, not the wife of her husband, nor the child of the father.  Toby. 
What is the cause then, why do these Landleapers take so great pain, to teach beasts, after this sort?  jerom. 
It is to none other end, but to make men sport, and thereby, get money of them, that they might live the easilier.  Tob. 
Now, what greater pleasure can any man have, then to see his children well instructed? Is there any Ape more pleasant? with whom may they have any better pastime? And what greater commodity can any Landleaper draw out of beasts, which he so teacheth, than the father from his son, the husband, from his wife, or the brother, from his brother, or one neighbour from an other, if they could as well learn of them, as the beasts learn of the Landleapers.  jerom. 
This is most certain, 
☞  a man shall find a great many more children, 
The Hippopotame.  like the Hippopotame, than the Stork.  Toby. 
What manner of beast is that Hippopotame?  jerom. 
It is a beast that is bred chief in Egypt, in the river of Nile, & the one half of him is like an horse, and the other half like a fish. And therefore, he beareth this name, that is to say, a river horse.  Tob. 
What is thy meaning by naming of this beast?  jerom. 
I will tell thee, They that have written the histories of the natures of beasts, 
Plutar. Book.  have set down the nature of this beast, 
Whether the beasts bred on the land, be wiser than they which are bred in the water.  to be so perverse and cruel, as that so soon as he is come to any ripe years, being thereto brought by the endeavour of his parents, that he will kill his father, and afterward have to do with his mother. And how many children, thinkest thou shall we find at this day, who are not grieved, that Fathers & mothers live so long, and think of nothing else, but to see the end of them?  Toby. 
And how many thinkest thou there are of such children, who bring their parents to the grave, with very sorrow and pensiveness, to see their untowardness.  jerom. 
Alas, if man showeth himself to be such a one, to those who have begotten him, and brought him up, what good shall other men hope for at his hands.  Toby. 
But tell me also, I beseech thee, what thou meanest by speaking of the Storks?  jerom. 
I put in them, because they are of a clean contrary nature. 
The Stork.  For, if we shall give credit unto natural Philosophers, 
Plin. in his 〈◊〉 Book. cha. 2.  both Greeks and Latins, & to their Proverbs, 
Antipelargosis.  they bring up & comfort their dams in their old age, & by that means, show themselves thankful unto them, for their bringing up of them, when they were young. How sayest thou Theophrast, is it not so?  Theo. 
In very deed the Hebrews, give this Fowl, which here, in our language, we call a stork, & giveth her in the Hebrew tongue a name, which signifieth, mercy & courtesy. And therefore, there is great likelihood, that this name was given unto her, upon the reason which thou haste yielded. And therefore, 
basil.  basil the great exhorteth all Christians, 
Suydas.  to follow the examples of the Stork.  jerom. 
And Suydas also testifieth, that hereupon, an Emblem and devise was made: 
An Emblem ●nd device for Princes.  In which, there was a kingly sceptre, laid upon an Hippopotame, & thereupon iewbed certain Storks.  To. 
What was the meaning hereof?  jerom. 
The meaning was this, That Kings and Princes should by their power and authority, suppress all unthankful, wicked, 
●. Crinit. de ●●on. disc. lib. 4 ●a. 13.  and tyrannous persons, that would not yield their obedience, to those, to whom, in duty and conscience they are bound, but yield ill for good, both to their parents, country, and Church, who had begotten them, and brought them up. And contrariwise, they that should sustain, and maintain, all such as were Debonair, and acknowledged the good turns, which they had received, and had discharged themselves of all such duties, as of right they ought.  Theo. 
And for that cause also, S. Ambrose saith, that amongst the Romans, the Stork was taken to be an example of all piety and debonairtie.  Toby. 
This devise, where of thou speakest, Jerome thinketh it, not too much amiss. What sayest thou to it Theophraste?  Theo. 
I will tell thee mine opinion. 
Man's unthankfulness towards God.  I do consider thus with myself, how it should be possible, that one man should be faithful to an other, when as man, is so traitorous, so unfaithful, and altogether so unthankful, towards God his Creator who is both his Father, and sovereign liege Lord and Prince. For, how can he obey a mortal man, who is a Rebel, to the immortal GOD, 
Isaiah. 40. 4.  who hath both our life and death in his hand, 
Acts. 17.  and is the same God, by whom we are, live, and die. And therefore, is not this a most horrible thing, that man, who is but a worm of the earth, and no man in deed, in respect, and scarce able to crawl upon the ground, should be so unthankful and rebellious? For, were it not for the hope of eternal life, we might right well say, that he were the most miserable of all the creatures in the world. And yet he dareth himself alone, boldly resist all order of nature, and refuse to do his duty, whereunto all the rest of the creatures are most obedient. He boldly dareth lift up himself, against the Author, and Governor of all things, who made him of the slime of the earth, and in a moment is able again to dissolve him. I cannot enough marvel, when as I consider of this great pride and arrogancy of man, how he alone dareth resist his God, whom, all the rest of his creatures, the heavens, the earth, the sea, the stars and planets, all the elements, beasts, Angels, and Devils obey.  Toby. 
Surely, for mine own part, I wonder at it, even as much as thou dost.  Theo. 
But thou wouldst a great deal more wonder, if thou didst more narrowly consider, of the infirmity and misery of man, wherewith he is continually environed, and as it were almost quite and clean swallowed up, sithence the time of his conception, and what his nature and frame is. And therefore, seeing we are entered into this talk, me thinketh, that this consideration, and contemplation will not be amiss, for us to debate on. For the which cause, I am of the opinion, that we might handle this point somewhat more at large, if you will agree unto me herein. Howbeit, I fear nothing but that we should be over long, because there are in this behalf many good things, and worthy diligent consideration.  jerom. 
I believe there is none here, but would be right glad of it. For, it is a matter worth the handling. But to the end we might all profit the more. I take it, that our best way were, for the present, to talk of some other matter between, & recreate ourselves a little in this fair Garden. For, when our minds are always occupied about one thing, it groweth irksome unto us at last, although it were never so pleasant or profitable. Again, we cannot so well carry away all, when our minds are surcharged with over great a multitude of matters, and beside, when we have no delight in that that we hear.  Eust. 
Without doubt, there is nothing more certain.  To. 
I know not my masters, whether you be weary or no: But for mine own part, I am weary of hearing of good talk, when I shall tarry all day and all night about it.  Theo. 
And, I do think, that there is none of us weary in this good company: But because we may be the fresher, and follow the matter more cheerly, I am contented to agree to Jerome. And therefore, I think it most expedient, that we walk a little here in this garden, and look upon the goodly flowers, which God hath created for our use: to the end, that in beholding of them, we may the better always learn, to acknowledge his great power, wisdom, bounty, and that thereby, we may have the better occasion to praise him, and yield him our humble and hearty thanks: And then we may after enter again into our matter. And where we have heretofore spoken in general, of the disorder and confusedness of the world, and of the danger wherein it standeth, we will also speak somewhat more, in particular of man, who is the cause of all the disorder, and great mischiefs, that at this present reign in the world.  Tob. 
Seeing you are all of this opinion, I promise you, I for my part, will not be against it. Let us rise therefore, and get us hence.  
FINIS.   

Imprinted at London at the three Cranes in the vintry, by Thomas Dawson, for john Perin in Paul's Church yard at the sign of the Angel. 1583.