THE QUAKERS APPEAL ANSWERED, OR A FULL RELATION Of the Occasion, Progress, and Issue of a Meeting held in Barbican, the 28 th'. of August last passed. Wherein the Allegations of William Pen, in Two BOOKS lately Published by Him, against Thomas Hicks: were Answered and Disproved▪ And Tho. Hicks, his Quotations out of the Quakers own Books, Attested, by several, as being appealed unto. Published for Common Information. Deut. 19.16. etc. If a false Witness arise against any man to Testify against him that which is False: Then both the Men between whom the controversieiss, shall stand up, before the Lord, before the Priests and the Judges which shall be in those days: And the Judges shall make Diligent Inquisition, and behold, if the Witness be a false Witness; Then you shall do unto him as he thought to have done unto his Brother: So shall you put the Evil away from you. LONDON, Printed for Peter Parker, at the Leg and Star in Cornhill, over against the Royal Exchange, 1674. Where are Sold the three Dialogues between a Christian and a Quaker. To the Reader. WHereas there have been several Books published of late, by Thomas Hicks, by way of Dialogue between a Christian and a Quaker, Against which the people called Quakers have manifested great offence, G. Whitehead calls the First Dialogue a malicious Forgery, and Fiction, stuffed with manifest slanders against persons and principles, Dip. pl. p. 1. To the first and second Dialogues William Pen wrote an Answer, Entitled, Reason against Rattling, and Truth against Fiction, etc.— Unto which Thomas Hicks replied in a Third Dialogue, Entitled, The Quaker condemned out of his own mouth. To this last William Pen saith something, in his Counterfeit Christian Detected, etc. Wherein he doth charge Thomas Hicks with vile Forgeries, and black slanders, etc. By way of Appeal to all sober people, especially those called Anabaptists, in and about the City of London, And at the end of which book we have these words, by way of appeal: A Postscript by another hand. We expect to hear what the Baptists in and about London, will say, (as being appealed to;) concerning their Brother Tho. Hicks his proceeding in his three Dialogues, and whether they approve thereof, or of such Playbooks or Romances about Religion, yea or nay: For they are highly concerned to give Judgement, and to be plain to the world herein, as they tender the Glory of God, and the Reputation of Religion, etc. Now if you the Teachers and Elders etc. among the Baptised people, do not publicly clear yourselves of Tho. Hicks, and these his unjust proceed against us, and hereafter he further persists therein, we may take it for granted, that you own his work, and may justly deal with him, and pursue him, not only as Tho. Hicks, but as the Baptists great Champion, peculiar Agent, or Representative; But if you ingenuously clear yourselves of him, and his corrupt perverse work, than his future miscarriages will be chargeable only upon Tho. Hicks himself, and you shall appear to the world so far clear thereof, and approve yourselves the more honest and sincere towards God, Truth, and Religion. The aforesaid book of William Pens was distributed, at the doors of some of our Meeting places, the second of August last, Though some of us met not with it, till several days after. Upon the reading of this Appeal we were concerned to examine the several things charged by William Pen against Tho. Hicks, and the rather, because the said Appeal signifies that if we did not deal with him, as such a person therein represented, they would interpret his proceed as the Act of the whole Baptists, etc. Now forasmuch as Thomas Hicks is a member with us (and one whose conversation hath been honest and unblameable to the best of our knowledge:) having so heavy a charge exhibited against him, viz. A Forger, and a Liar, we could do no less than desire Tho. Hicks to give us a Publick-meeting, that we might hear what he could say hereunto: and if he had done them any wrong either by misquoting of them in any of their books, or slandering of them in any thing he had charged them with, That we might, if any such thing appeared, discharge that duty towards him as becomes us (viz.) either to bring him to acknowledge his evil as Publicly as he had wronged them, or to have disowned him, as a person unworthy of countenance amongst us: in case he should refuse so to do: It being altogether contrary to our principles and practice, to allow any amongst us, that shall either in word or deed wrong any sort of men. Hereupon a Letter was sent to William Pen as followeth; William Pen, Whereas an Appeal has been made to us in a Book lately published by thee, Entitled, The Counterfeit Christian Detected, etc. That we should clear ourselves of Tho. Hicks, and (As the Appeal expresseth it:) of his unjust proceed against the Quakers: These are therefore to acquaint Thee, that we have desired Tho. Hicks to give us a public meeting, that we might hear his Answer both with respect to those Doctrines and matters of Fact which he in his Dialogues hath laid to the Quakers charge. At which meeting, thyself with some others of thy friends are expected to be present: And we do also entreat and expect from you, that as you have in Print accused him of Forgery and lying, so you would suffer him without interruption to make his own defence, otherwise we shall not be able to give Judgement whether he hath wronged you or not. William Kissen. Han. Knollys. Tho. Paul. Lawrence Wise. Henry Forty. James Jones. London, 15 th'. of August, 1674. The meeting will be on the 28 th'. instant, at Mr. Gosnels' meetingplace in Barbican, at two of the Clock in the Afternoon. This Letter was sealed and directed to William Pen at his house at Rickmansworth or elsewhere, and left with Philip Ford for conveyance: Who presumed to break open the letter, and accordingly returned this Answer, to the persons before named. Yesterday I received a Letter from you, directed to William Pen, concerning a meeting to be the 28th. instant, at which you say you expect him: This serves only to give you notice, that he was gone into the East of England about three weeks ago, and when his return will be I know not: neither do I know how to give him notice hereof: and therefore I do not see that he is likely to be there, except you had been pleased to have appointed a time when he was in the City, or so near that he might have had timely notice of your intentions. If this be designedly done, it is not fair; but if not, the debate must be suspended till a time in which the parties concerned with you, by mutual consent, agree upon a time. This I thought good to let you know, and do judge you ought to let others know it, that so vain boasting may be prevented as much as in us lieth, which is all at present from your Friend. Philip Ford. London 20 th'. 6/ mo. 1674. Another Letter of the same import with that before to William Pen, was sent to G. Whitehead, sealed and directed to him, at his house, at the Wheat-sheaff in Hounds-ditch or elsewhere. Whereupon this following Answer was returned by G. whitehead's Wife. I did presume to open my husband's Letter, lest I might prejudicially keep it, now finding the consequence, requiring my husband and William Pen, at such a day and time, which in all likelihood they are incapable of answering, being very remote from this City. And the truth is in plainness, I know not when nor where to send to either of them; so did think it best to return the Letter with this plain information. That I am thy Friend. Ann Whitehead. Hereupon another letter was sent to John Osgood to the same purpose, as to William Pen and G. Whitehead, with this addition, That we understand, that neither Will. Pen, nor G. Whitehead were in the City, and 'tis not known where they are, nor how to direct our Letters to them, of which we were wholly ignorant when those Letters were sent. However since the matter depending before us, is only matter of Fact, and not of Dispute, we conceive we may proceed to hear Tho. Hicks his Defence; His Charge being already in Print exhibited against him: therefore we do now acquaint you of our intentions; that you with some others of your Friends, may be there if you please, etc. Dated 23d. of Aug. 1674. This Letter was accordingly delivered into John Osgoods Hands, the very next day. Thus far did we proceed to prevent any pleading of a surprise; Though it was more than we were in strictness obliged unto Forasmuch as we (with other sober people;) were Appealed unto: And we are not to suppose, that the Quakers did this, to them who are not fit to give a certain judgement. For William Pen saith, That to which an Appeal is made, must be capable of giving an Infallible Judgement; and so a true Judge: Or the Appeal is foolish: Spir. of Truth. vind. p. 78. Consequently We must be infallible Judges in this Case: or otherwise they have made a foolish Appeal. Though this might have been sufficient to us, had we Privately examined what Tho. Hicks had writ, comparing it with the Quakers own Books: and if we had found he had not wronged them, would also have justified us in the clearing of Tho. Hicks: nevertheless we were unwilling to be single Judges in this matter; therefore thought it convenient to make it so Public as we did; To the end that they themselves, and all others that pleased, might hear and judge, as well as we: Hence could not think it reasonable, to put off the meeting (being so generally known;) merely for the absence of William Pen and G. Whithead; in regard the matters objected against the Quakers, especially with respect to their opinions, did concern the whole party: and therefore there was the more Reason, that those of them who could, should have come; that they might be Witnesses whether there was any wrong done to them or not. According to the time appointed we did meet; Tho. Hicks charged them with several opinions, and produced the Books of such as have been, and now are chief Leaders amongst the Quakers: for his own discharge from Forgery. And that all plainness might appear, We ordered another person in the meeting, to read the said Books, according as they were Cited by Tho. Hicks. Upon the reading of which, we found them to agree, with what he had laid to the Quakers charge, which the following Narrative will give you a more full account of: so that hitherto we see no cause of just blame to be laid unto Tho. Hicks. And whereas there is a late paper Printed by way of complaint of several scandalous reports in City and Country against William Pen and G. Whitehead, as if they purposely neglected to meet the day aforesaid: To which we say, that for any such Reports, they came not from any amongst us, as we know: But some there were who did affirm, that W. Pen was not far from London several days before the meeting, and after our Letter was given to Philip Ford, to be sent to him. Yea, others do report, That William Pen was at his own house, (not far from London) the day before the meeting: Though William Pen saith, he heard not of it Directly nor Indirectly, till about ten that very night the meeting ended. Now if those Reports be true, That William Pen was at his own house the day before, etc. It must be left to men's Judgements; whether William Pen did not know of the meeting till afterwards; especially since it is not improbable, but that a man who will with the highest confidence deny what he knows to be true, may also as confidently affirm that which he knows to be false. That William Pen is guilty of the First, the Relation following may put you beyond doubt: As for the Challenge which William Pen gives on the behalf of himself, G. Whitehead and the rest of his friends to give us a publick-meeting etc. We say, that if Will. Pen or G. Whitehead or any other Leading-Quaker have any new matter to object against Tho. Hicks, of which he hath not cleared himself publicly: If they please to signify the particulars thereof to us in Writing, with their hands to it, we shall return such answer thereunto, either by a Publick-meeting or otherwise, as to us may seem just, and that may also be to the satisfaction of all indifferent and unprejudiced minds. For we hope that nothing shall lie upon us in point of Duty towards Tho. Hicks, but that by the Grace of God we shall be ready to do it. William Kiffen Dan. Dyke Tho. Paul Han. Knollys Henry Forty. A NARATIVE OF THE Method and Proceed at the Meeting held in Barbican, the 28th of August, 1674. After Mr. Kiffen had given an Account of the Occasion hereof, by Reading the Quakers Appeal; (wherein Tho. Hicks is Accused of and Perverse Proceed against them:) He signified, That the Business of that Day was not to Dispute, but only to Hear and Examine Matters of Fact, viz. Whether Tho. Hicks was Guilty of that which is Objected against him. Tho. Hicks. THe things whereof I accuse the Quakers, are Reduced under Two General Heads. (1.) Such as respect their Opinions. (2.) Their Practice. Their Opinions, I shall give you in these following particulars, (1.) That the Light in every man, Or the Light wherewith every man is Enlightened, is God. Dial. 1. pag. 3. Dial. 3. pag. 2. (2.) That the Soul is part of God, and of Gods Being; without Beginning, and Infinite. Dial. 1. pag. 16. Dial. 3. pag. 2. (3.) That Jesus Christ is not a Distinct Person without us, Dial. 1. pag. 1. Dial. 3. pag. 2. (4.) That Christ Redeems himself. Dial. 1. pag. 47. Dial. 3. pag. 2. (5.) That the Scripture is no Rule of Faith, and Practise unto Christians. Dial. 1. pag. 1. Dial. 3. pag. 2. (6.) That the Speaking of the Spirit in any, is of greater Authority than the Scriptures. Dial. 1. p. 48. (7.) That's no Command from God to me, which he Commands to another. Dial. 2. pag. 59 (8.) That Justification by that Righteousness which Christ fulfilled for us, wholly without us, is a Doctrine of Devils. Dial. 1. pag. 48. (9) That Justification is by Works. Dial. 2. pag. 31. 51. (10.) That Christ fulfilled the Law, only as our Pattern or Example. Dial. 2. pag, 52. (11.) That the Doctrine of Christ's Satisfaction is Irreligious and Irrational. Dial. 3. pag. 3. (12.) That this Body which Dies, shall not rise again. Dial. 3. pag. 3. William Pen. Whether these Doctrines and Expressions, charged upon the People, called Quakers, by Tho. Hicks, in both his Dialogues, be really the Doctrines, and Say of that People, or not? Reason against Rail. pag. 6. Tho. Hicks. That these are their Doctrines and Expressions, I am now to prove. (1.) That the Quakers do hold, that the Light in every man; or the Light wherewith every man is Enlightened, is God. This Particular needs not to be Insisted on, for as G. Whitehead, and William. Pen, deny not the Quotations produced for the Proof hereof. William. Pen expressly clears me from Forgery in this Particular: Saith he, Where we have never charged Forgery upon him; He (viz. Tho. Hicks,) hath taken the Opportunity, and that with confidence of an Innocent, to cry out: Is this candid to call me a Forger, when you confess the things? Examine, saith he, Dial. 3. pag. 4, 5, 6, 9 Thus Will. Pen, Sergeant Christian Detected, pag. 9 If you please to Read my Book, and the Pages Will. Pen refers to; You will find, that the very Point now in Hand, is there Discoursed of: Though this might suffice, for my Vindication, yet for the sake of others, I crave Leave, that some Quotations may be Read. In him was Life, and the Life was the Light of Men. If the Life be the Divine Essence, the Light must be so also: For such as the Cause is, such the Effect must be: Thus G. Whitehead in a Manuscript. The absurdity of this Argument being showed in my First Dial. pag. 3, 4. Will. Pen, answers thus. G. Whitehead, inferring from John 1. That if the Life was of the Divine Being, the Light must be the same; for as the Cause, so is the Effect: It was never Geo. Whiteheads principle, or words, That the Life which is the Light of Men, is but in itself a mere Effect: For he owns it, in its own Being to be no other than God himself. And values not the Counterfeit, (i. e. Tho. Hicks' quarrel:) Sergeant Christian detected, pag. 56. Margin. We assert the true Light, with which every man is enlightened, to be in itself the Christ of God, and the Saviour of the World, Will. Pen. Reas. against Rail. p. 56. All men are enlightened, etc. This Light is Divine, because 'tis the very Life of the Word, which is God: Not an Effect of his Power, as a created Light, as some men fancy, Will. Pen, Quakerism a new Nickname, pag. 9, 10. To call the Light in every man a mere creature, is contrary to John 1. In him was Life, and the Life was the Light of men; which Light is Divine and Increated. G. Whitehead, Dip. Pl. pag. 13. Some call the Light Conscience, etc. Which Light was, before Conscience was, or Creature was; or Created, or made Light was: He made the Sun, the Moon, etc. And the Light was before these were made. G. Fox, Gr. Mist. p. 10. Some call it a Natural Light: Which Light was before the word Conscience was, or a Natural Light; The Sun, Moon and Stars either: For all things that were made, was made by it. The Natural Light, or made Light, are created Lights. He made the Sun, the Moon, and Stars. They were made. And here as the Natural Light to the Natural Eye. And the Light that every man is Enlightened with, that cometh into the World, was before these were made: Glorified with the Father before the World began. G. Fox, Gr. Mist. pag. 23. The Light which every man that cometh into the World is Enlightened withal, is Christ; by whom the World was made. G. Fox, Gr. Mist. pag. 185. The Light which every one that cometh into the World is enlightened withal, is not Conscience: For the Light was before any thing was made, or Conscience named. G. Fox, Gr. Mist. pag. 331. The words of the Everlasting and true Light, who is the Eternal Living God, and the King of Saints; which he gave unto me his Servant, to Declare to the Inhabitants of the Earth, etc.— Harken, O ye Nations, etc. Thus saith the Lord God of Heaven and Earth, whose Name is the Light, I am the Lord, and there is none else can save: I the Light created all things, and Formed, and made you all of the Dust. I the Light gave unto every one of you Life and Breath; and you and all things are upheld by me the Light. You scorn me the Light in you, and count me a Low, Poor, weak Thing, not worth taking notice of: You have disobeyed me, and dishonoured me, and called me a Natural light: You fight against me, the Light and Life within you. And I the Light, have been oppressed in you, and by you: But verily my Spirit shall not always strive with you: For verily, I the Lord God Almighty, who am the Light, which have made manifest your Iniquities to you, which some of you call Natural. And say, That those who are led and guided by me the Light within, which makes manifest sin: That they are guided by the Spirit of Error and Delusion: Mark; I will make you know your Blasphemy; and you shall know and feel to your everlasting Destruction, if you speedily repent not, That I the Light which lets you see sin, and reproves for it, am Spiritual; and am the Spirit of Truth: Mark, I the Light made you all of one Blood, etc. But many of you have slighted me, the Light in you: I will make you bow, at my Name, the Light; and you shall feel 'tis not Natural, (as some of you have said of it:) For it shall break you to pieces, and all your Professions, and Wisdom, which is out of the Light. I the Light in you, will confound it all. I'll break all Sects, Opinions, and gathered Churches, so called; which are not in me. I the Light in you, will take away all Peace from the Earth: Yea, I'll bring you to your Wit's end: I'll burn your Heavens; all your Joy, your Peace, your Righteousness, which stand in the power of Darkness. I the Light in you, will consume it all. I'll burn Heaven and Earth; I'll burn within and without: I'll strike with Astonishment, with Fear and Amazement; with Madness and Destruction: I'll bring Plagues within and without, until I have consumed all you my Enemies, who will not own me, the Light within. Thus G. Fox, the younger, in a Collection of several of his Books, pag. 47, 49, 50, 51, 52. All mind that Gift of God in yourselves, which maketh you sensible of your present condition: You must receive the living Principle of God, in your own particular Vessels. Which Principle, I call the Light; it being a proper Name for it: But I shall not desire to Tie up any of you, to give this principle of Truth, only the Name of Light, I shall not matter if you call it, the Truth: Or, the Gift of God: Or a Measure of the Eternal Being G. Fox, Younger. Ibid. 171. Many more Proofs might be produced; but I suppose these may suffice to confirm my first Charge: I shall now proceed to the next. (2.) That the soul is part of God; of Gods Being; without Beginning, and also Infinite; See Dial. 1. pag. 16. Will. Pen. What so base? What so Irreligious as this Perversion? Men nor Devils could never study more our wrong, than this pretended Christian hath done. If this be his Christianity: The God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, preserve my Soul for ever coming within the Borders of such a Religion. Christianity is absurd by such Traducers; and God's Spirit grieved by such Injustice: I would not use the worst of Men, no, not Devils at this unequal rate, he deals with us: Who both Miscites his words, and abuseth the true meaning of what is truly Cited. Reas, against Rail. pag. 65. Tho. Hicks. You have heard what Will. Pen, hath said touching this Charge: Be pleased also to hear my Quotations: Read at length, and then Judge. Is not the Soul without Beginning, coming from God, returning into God again? Who hath it in his hand: And Christ the Power of God; The Bishop of the Soul; which brings it up into God, which came out from Him: Hath this Beginning or Ending? And, Is not this Infinite in itself? G. Fox, Gr. Mist. pag. 90. Magnus' been, saith, The Soul is not Infinite in itself, but it is a Creature: And Rich. Baxter, saith, It is a Spiritual substance: Now consider, (saith G. Fox,) What a condition, these called Ministers are in. They say, That which is a Spiritual substance is not Infinite in itself; but a Creature. That which came out from the Creator, and is in the hand of the Creator; which brings it up, and to the Creator again: This is Infinite in itself. Gr. Mist. pag. 29. God breathed into man the breath of Life, and he became a Living Soul: God who hath all souls in his hand. And is not this which cometh out from God which is in God's hand, part of God? of God, and from God, and to God again. Which soul Christ is the Bishop of: And is not this which came out from God, which God hath in his hand, taken up into God again: which Christ the Power of God, is the Bishop of: Is not this of Gods being? Gr. Mist pag. 100 Is not this of his Being, the Soul which he hath in his hand. * This is that G. Fox, to whom Josiah Coal, an eminent Quaker, hath written thus: Dear, G. Fox, who art the Father of many Nations, whose life hath reached through us thy Children, even to the Isles afar off; to the begetting of many to a lively Hope: For which, Generations to come shall call thee blessed: Whose being and habitation is in the Power of the Highest; in which thou Rules and Governs in Righteousness; and thy Kingdom is Established in Peace, and the Increase thereof without end. Dat. 21st. day of the 12 th'. Mon. 1658. See Tyr. Detected. pag. 19 G. Fox, Gr. Mist. p. 68 I presume you are satisfied that in this particular, I have done the Quakers no wrong. My next Charge is this: Charge. 3. (3.) I do accuse the Quakers, for denying Jesus Christ to be a distinct Person without us. See Dial. 3. pag. 2. Will Pen. Because we assert the true Light with which every man is enlightened to be in itself the Christ of God, and the Saviour of the world. Tho. Hicks, doth infer, That we deny the outward Sufferings of Christ in his bodily Appearance. Reas. against Rail. pag. 56. Tho. Hicks. Whether herein I have misreported their belief, let these Quotations be read and considered. Jesus Christ, a person without us; is not Scripture Language; but the Anthropomorphites, and Mugletonians. G. Whitehead. Dip. Pl. p. 13. The Socinian tells us of a Personal Christ; and that the Man Christ Jesus our Lord, hath in Heaven a place remote from Earth; a Humane body: But doth he believe him to be the Eternal God, whilst he Imagines him to be a Personal Christ? a Humane body so Limited and confined to a Remoteness. G. Whitehead, Append. to Reas. against Rail. pag. 21. Where proves he by Scripture, that Christ's second coming, without Sin to Salvation, is a personal coming. G. Whitehead, Ibid. pag. 24. 'Tis a design of Satan to keep men in carnal Imaginations and Dark thoughts of a Humane, Personal Christ. G. Whitehead, Ib. pag. 27. I tell, Will. Pen, that his not speaking to this point, signifies that he is Pinched: See Dial. 3. pag. 26. Unto which he returns this answer. Why, are we Pinched because we say nothing to a Doctrine the Scripture saith nothing of? Give me one place that mentions Christ to be a distinct Person without us. Art thou so Destitute of common sense, as to think of proving the Quaker no Christian, because he denies a Doctrine not expressed in Scripture? William. Pen, counterfeit Christ. pag. 77. and in pag. 78. He calls this, his Disbelief of my Scriptural belief. However (saith William. Pen) I hope for our tenderness in this Particular: Considering that Tho. Hicks his Charge is no Scripture Phrase: And that such like Expressions occasion People to Retain, Mean and Dark apprehensions of God and Christ, and his place of Residence; we shall not suffer in the Minds of our sober Readers as men Undeserving the Name of Christians. William. Pen, counterfeit Christ. pag. 79. God's Christ is not distinct from his Saints, nor his Body, for he is within them: not distinct from their spirits, G. Fox. Gr. Mist. p. 207. Such are deceived that say Christ is distinct from the Saints, Ib. p. 16. If there be any other Christ but he that was crucified within, he is the false Christ. And he that hath not this Christ that was risen, and crucified within, is a Reprobate: Though Devils and Reprobates may make a talk of him without, G. Fox, Ib. p. 206. Robert Wastfield, a noted Quaker, being asked this Question, Why they spoke and writ so darkly and doubtfully of the Person of Christ? His Answer was, Because you are not able to bear what we have to hold forth concerning him: Adding, that if they should declare what they held concerning Jesus Christ, they should be stoned in the streets. Another leading Quaker being asked What he thought of Jesus Christ, born at Bethlehem? and dying at Jerusalem? Answered, Jesus Christ at Jerusalem, a type, a figure, a shadow, that is passed away: What have you to do with Christ at Jerusalem? Have done with him. Both these Instances are attested by Mr. Nath. Robinson; Minister at Southampton. The next particular Opinion which I charge the Quakers with, is this. 4. That Christ redeems himself: This I draw as a necessary consequence from their words: see Dial. 1st. p. 47. William Pen. This is a stumble and a gross perversion of our words: Reas. against Rail. p. 62. Tho. Hicks. Whether this be a perversion or not, I shall refer you to their own words. Few are come to know what it is that wants Redemption; and that the promise is to: For there is a seed to which the Promise of Redemption is, Ja. Naylor love to the lost, p. 47. Christ is the Election, and the Elect seed, Ibid. pag. 32. The Promise of God is to the seed that hath been laden as a cart with sheaves by the sinner: which seed is the hope Christ, G. Fox Gr. mist. p. 324. We do assert the Redemption of the seed: Will. Pen. Reas. against Rail. p. 62. 'tis no ways absurd that we affirm, That the end of Gods manifesting himself in the flesh, was for the Redemption and deliverance of His Holy life, that was in a man as a small seed, even the smallest of seeds, that had been long vexed, grieved, and pressed down by sin and iniquity; Will. Pen Ib. p. 63. This seed was, and is pure for ever, Ib. p. 64. That which was lost is still in man's heart, and there it must be sought, for it remains still in the house, that is, man's heart, this is the thing to be sought, This Christ came to seek and to save, And all his ministers preached people to this, the lost in man, a lost God, a lost Christ * G. Keith. In a meeting with me a few weeks since, told me, That he added these words, (viz.) That they might find a lost God, a lost Christ whom they had lost, I then answered, 'tis true, those words were added, yet were they not otherwise serviceable to him, than as a blind, to deceive his unwary reader; For, First, By lost in his whole discourse, in that book cited, is intended of God and Christ, which he there calls, The principle, Kingdom, or Appearance of Christ by his light in man's heart. And as Jesus Christ came to seek, and save the lost, so all his ministers preached people to this, The lost in them. Secondly, The sense I put upon the word lost, is no other, Than what, William Pen allows; lost, saith he, As taken by Tho. Hicks, is meant of man's lost condition, And as there used by G. Keith, is understood of God and Christ, whom man had lost: Rea. against Rail. pag. 61. Thirdly, I further said that the sense, in which I represented him, was according to the opinions of others of his friends. , This was the sum and substance of their Doctrine, G. Keith. Immed. Revel. p. 75, 76. When God created man, He put his Image, Christ the express image of himself, in man. He breathed into him the breath of life, He lived in God, And Christ the light of men, was his life, lived in him: then the Lamb was not slain, Christ, the Lamb, the life of man— But when man sinned— so the Lamb came to be slain in him from the foundation of the world, That Holy, meek, harmless nature: The Lamb's nature was slain in him— Now the bowels of the Father's love, stirred in compassion to the work of his own hands, that of the pure creation in man, which though shut up in death, yet it remained and perished not, as to its being, It did not become a nothing, but remained a being, And this is the lost, which God sent his son into the world to seek and to save, not to seek and save the old Adam, that birth of the Serpents begetting, but to destroy it; for it is not capable of God's salvation, But that, which Christ came to save, is that of God, which proceeded from him, The seed of God in man * Judge Reader whether I have wronged G. Keith or not. , The seed of Abraham, whereof Abraham's old decayed body, as good as dead, and Sarahs' barren womb was a type, G. Keith Immed. Revel. p. 44. 45, 46. of this seed, he elsewhere, speaks thus; what the seed, and birth of God in us, judgeth, or discerneth, or doth is ever infallible, the eye of the seed, always seethe infallibly, This Book Entitled Immediate Revelation, G. Keith affirmed to me, (in the hearing of many credible witnesses) that it was written by the immediate Inspiration of the Spirit of God. Its ear, always heareth infallibly, its hand always acteth infallibly, Ibid, p. 23. This seed, and birth of God in man, is that which Geo. Keith saith, Christ came to seek and save. These instances considered, I shall leave it with you to Judge, whether my consequence was not proper from their words, my next charge is this. (5.) That the Quakers do deny the Scriptures to be the Rule of Faith, and Practice unto Christians: Proof. We deny the Scriptures to be the Rule of Faith and Practice: In honour to that Divine Light that was the Author of them, etc. Will. Pen. Reas. against Rail. pag. 48. There is nothing in the Scripture that is a duty upon me, or which I am obliged to obey, because there Recorded: Whatsosoever is a Command to me, I must not receive from any man or thing without me; nay, not the Scripture itself: Yea, it is the greatest Error in the world, that ever was Invented, and the ground of all Error, to affirm that the Scripture ought to be a Rule to Christians. Ben. Furly, a noted Quaker, in a Letter. See Dial 1. pag. 79. He that persuades people to let the Scriptures be the Rule of Faith and Practice, would keep People in Darkness: For whosoever walks by the Rule without them, and teach men so to do; would make void the Covenant of Life, and Peace. Edw. Burrows works. pag. 62. G. Whitehead, accounts it Idolatry to call the Bible, a Means of our knowing God. Dip. Pl. pag. 13. To such as say the Scriptures are the Rule, G. Whitehead writes thus: Poor men, you have shown yourselves sufficiently herein: And what an Empty, Implicit Faith you are in; and how void, both of the Knowledge of God, Christ, and Salvation you are: And how yet in your sins; having denied Christ and his Light within to be your Rule, and Way, and Foundation; as he is to his Followers: And so you are walking by your Fancies, and Imaginations; who set the Scriptures in the place of Christ, as your only absolute Rule; and ground of your Faith and Knowledge. Christ ascended, pag. 11. Charge, 6. (6.) That the speaking of the Spirit in any, is of greater Authority than the Scriptures. See Dial. 1. pag. 28. Proved. This Question was put to a Quaker, as G. Whithead, confesseth: Do you esteem of your speakings to be of as greater Authority, as any Chapter in the Bible? To which his Answer is, That which was spoken from the Spirit of Truth in any, is of as great Authority as the Scriptures, and Chapters are, and greater. G. Whithead, Serious Apol. pag. 49. Charge. 7. (7.) That is no command from God to me, which God hath given by way of command to another. Neither did any of the Saints Act by the command which was to another: Every one obeyed their own command. See Dial. 2. pag. 59 I prove this. That is no Command from God to me, which he Commands to another: Neither did any of the Saints we read of in Scripture, Act by the Command which was to another, etc. They obeyed every one their own Command: And thou J. Turner, or any other who goes to Duty, as you call it, by Imitation from the Letter without, which were Commands to others; in your own Wills and Time; your Sacrifice is not accepted; but is an Abomination to the lord Edw. Burroughs works, pag. 47. You take up a Command from the Letter, and Imitate the Apostles, in that Mind and Nature, which in the Apostles was Crucified; and you say Christ Commands it; when the Letter doth but declare it, you say, in such a verse of such a Chapter: Such a Command is, not having received the Command by the same Spirit. Here you are proved to be them which use their Tongues, and say, He saith it; when God hath not spoken to you; but as you read it, without you: As the False Prophets may do the words of the true Prophets: And thus you are in the Witchcraft. Edw. Burroughs works. pag. 105. These words Edw. Bur. gave out, (as he himself saith,) by Order and Authority given to him, by the Spirit of the Living God, the 31 th'. day of the 10 th'. Month; in the year of the world's Account, 1655. about the 4 th'. hour in the Morning, when he was upon his Bed in Kilkenny City, in the Nation of Ireand: Given under my hand, and Sealed by the Spirit of the Eternal God, who lives for ever; through a Servant of the lord Edw. B. see his works, pag. 96. Charge. 8. (8.) That Justification by that Righteousness which Christ fulfilled for us, wholly without us, is a Doctrine of Devils. Dial. 1. pag. 38. Proved. And indeed this we deny; (viz. Justification by the Righteousness which Christ fulfilled in his own Person for us, wholly without us:) And boldly affirm it in the Name of the Lord, to be a Doctrine of Devils; and an Arm of the Sea of Corruption, which doth now Deluge the world. William. Pen, Serious Apol. pag. 148. Charge. 9 (9) That the Quakers hold Justification by works. See Dial. 3. pag. 2. And I now add, by works in the strictest Notion. Proved. God accepts not any, where there is any failing: Or who do not fulfil the Law, and Answer every Demand of Justice. Edw. Burroughs works, pag. 33. In answer to the 14 th'. Query: Was not Abraham Justified by works? We must not conceive that his Personal-Offering was not a Justifying-righteousness: But that God was pleased to count it so. Nor was there any Imputation of another's Righteousness to Abraham; but on the contrary. His personal Obedience, was the ground of that just Imputation. Therefore, that any should be Justified by another's Righteousness Imputed, and not Inherent in him; is both Ridiculous and Dangerous. William. Pen, Reas. against Rail. pag. 80. Charge. 10. (10.) That Christ fulfilled the the Law, only as our pattern. See Dial. 2. pag. 52. Compared with Sand, Foundation, p. 26. Will. Pen. If he can find the word Only there: Or such an Answer to such a Question; or the Matter strictly contained in that Question, he hath not wronged me, But sure I am, there is no such Question: and as sure, The fulfilling of the Law, was not the subject Treated on: And very certain, the word Only was not there: Therefore a Forger, etc. Will. Pen, Reas. against Rail, pag. 78. Tho. Hicks. Let the Book and Page referred to by me, be read; and then Judge; whether Will. Pen was advised thus to answer. For not the Hearers of the Law are just before God; but the Doers of the Law shall be justified, Rom. 2.13. From whence (saith Will. Pen,) how unanswerably may I observe, unless we become doers of that Law, which Christ came not to destroy, but as our Example to fulfil; we can never be Justified before God. Nor let any Fancy that Christ hath so fulfilled it for them, as to exclude their Obedience from being requisite to their acceptance; but Only as their Pattern. William. Pen. Sand. Found. p. 26. Judge now whether the Law was Treated on; or whether the word Only be there. Both which, Will. Pen you hear denies. Again, let it be noted, That this very Argument is Printed in Will. Pens Reas. against Rail. pag. 94, 95. Whereby you may be ascertained that he had his Sandy Found▪ by him, when he charged my Citation from it, with Forgery. Charge. 11. (11.) That the Doctrine of Christ's satisfaction, is Irreligious and Irrational. Proof. That this is true, see Sand. Found. p. 22. Where Will. Pen speaks thus. Consequences; (that is from this Doctrine) Irreligious and Irrational; and concludes one of his Consequences thus: O the Infamous Portraiture this Doctrine draws of the Infinite Goodness: Is this your Retribution. O Injurious Satisfactionists! Thus Will Pen. Charge. 12. (12.) That this Body which dies, shall not Rise again. Proof. G. Whithead, asserted in the hearing of many Witnesses, That this Body shall not rise again. Such a Resurrection is Inconsistent with Scripture, Reason, and the Belief of all men, right in their wits. William. Pen, Reas. against Rail. pag. 133. For shame let us never make so much stir against the Doctrine of Transubstantiation: For the absurdity of that, is rather outdone than equalled by this Carnal Resurrection. William. Pen. Ibid. p. 134. The Change which shall be is not of Accidents, but of Bodies. William. Pen. Ibid. p. 136. and in p. 138. He calls it a Barbarous Conceit. From our denying the Resurrection of the Natural and Corruptible Body, etc. Will. Pen. counterfeit Chr. p. 32. I hope you are satisfied, that I have not in any of these 12 Particulars, either Mischarged or wronged the Quakers. But, If any should Question the Authority of the Books which I have Cited: I desire, That William. Pens Reas. against Rail p. 185, & 186. may be read. We shall (saith William. Pen) among the many Books writ by us, in general, in Defence of our Way we profess, lay these few upon the Heads of our several Adversaries; as containing much of what can be said, in behalf of our Principle, and Practices, viz. (1.) Priests and Professors Principles. (That is the Book Entitled, The Gr. Mist.) by G. Fox. (2.) Edw. Burroughs, his Works. (3.) Divinity of Christ, by G. Whithead. (4.) Immediate Revelation, by G. Keith. (5.) Serious Apology, by G. Whithead, and Will. Pen. (6.) Christ Ascended, by G. Whithead. (7.) The Spirit of Truth Vindicated, by W. Pen. These with our present Discourse: (that is Reason against Rail.) Let them Answer: Thus W. Pen. 2. Head, or Matters of Practice. That it concerns them to render their Adversaries as Ridiculous as they can; and to make their Friends believe, they do nothing but contradict themselves: And if this fail, to Insinuate by way of Question, something that may be a Slander to them: See his Dial. 1. pag. 72. William Pen. This is a Forgery, O horrible Impiety! God, our God Vindicate our Innocency from these Hillish Slanders. Reas. against Rail. pag. 138. 161. Were we what he Represents us to be, in this very Matter, the severest Plagues and Judgements of the Eternal God, we might justly expect to be our Portion. Ibid. pag. 4. Tho. Hicks. Whether I have wronged them or not, in giving such an Answer in their Names: Let these Quotations be Read, and Considered: Our Ignorance of his Name, deprives us of that Scope, which we might otherwise have, for producing perhaps as large a Catalogue of Doctrinal Mistakes; in what he himself, or those to whom he adheres, have writ: Perhaps also, he was afraid of such Truth as may be seasonably told of him, to the Discrediting of his Enterprise. Thus Will Pen, in answer to the Author of the Spirit of the Quakers tried. Spirit of truth Vind. pag. 6. G. Whitehead, in his Answer to Mr. Danson, Insinuates a Slander upon him, by way of Question: He, (saith Whitehead) styles himself sometimes Minister of the Gospel at Sandwich: But is not rather that Report of him true, that there he was given to Gaming, Bowls, and Ninepins, etc. See Divinity of Christ, written by G. Whitehead. pag. 49. This Question was put by G. Whitehead, not because Mr. Danson was guilty, but merely to Slander him; will appear from what Will. Pen says in his Apology for his Friend Whitehead; in this very thing. Who knows not (saith Pen) That the Priests give themselves a Liberty of more than that? What Game (almost) do they scruple to play at. And if G. Whitehead, to detect the Priest, since others gave themselves that Lose, did therefore make that Query: Must it therefore be taken for granted that he concluded him such? Spir. of truth Vind. page 137. Hear the Complaint of another, who very well knows the Temper and Practices of the Quakers. If any persons, (saith he) Writ or Speak their Grief (that is at the Quakers Miscarriages;) that the Public take notice of it; they will Represent them under such Terms, as may render them Odious: And the more Effectually to weaken their Testimonies, they will Fix upon them, Scurrilous and contemptible Appellations. And to prevent any Inquisition into the truth of the Matter, they would make People believe, that they are Envious, Malicious, Dirty, Factious, and Ranting Spirits. Spir. of the Hat. pag. 36, 37. (2.) I accuse the Quakers, for calling such as ask them Questions, Reprobates: And saying they are in the Sorcery and Witchcraft, William Pen. This is a great Lye. Reas. against Rail. pag. 154, 156. Tho. Hicks. Be pleased to read Edw. Burroughs his Answers to Twenty serious Questions; and you will find that which is sufficient to clear me from Lying. His words are these: Thou Reprobate, and child of darkness; the Light condemns thee, and thy Generation eternally: We witness thee to be in the Sorcery and Witchcraft: Thou art Darkness itself. Thou Dragon; thy Queries are Conjured in the Black-art, out of the bottomless Pit: Thou Diviner; we witness thee to be the Beast, which wars with the Lamb: Thou Antichrist, which looks at Christ's Death at Jerusalem, alone: Thou art seen with the Light; and with it condemned for ever. Thou blind Pharisee and Blasphemer: Thou Jesuit art pleading for a Christ afar off thee: Thou art under the Woe; and from that Woe, thou shalt never flee. Let all People see, whether thou be not a blind Ignorant Sot. Here thou Repliest thy Sottish Queries concerning the Body of Jesus, as the Devil did about the body of Moses: Thou disobedient one; upon whom God will render Vengeance in flaming Fire: Thou art accursed: Thou Beast, to whom the Plagues of God are due, upon whom the wrath of God must be accomplished: Thou art shut out from God for ever: Thou blind Hypocrite: Thou Cain: Thou full of Subtlety: With the Light thou art seen, and with the Life thou art Judged and Condemned: Thou dead Beast; thou art unredeemed from thy vain conversation, and so art not Justified; nor never shalt be. Stop thy Mouth thou Sorcerer: The same that justifies us, shall condemn thee Eternally. The manner of Christ's being in the Saints, thou knowest not; who art a Reprobate; and shalt find him to thy Eternal Condemnation. O thou dark Beast and Conjurer, Querying with thy conjured words: Thou Blasphemer, thou Serpent, thou dark Sottish Beast, etc. † Ed. Burroughs blessed God, that had discovered the Querist▪ saying, thy Queries are answered lovingly and plainly, in Scripture Language and Terms. Ibid. p. 34. Edw. Burroughs' works. pag. 29. to 34. (3.) That William. Pen, by the sense of the Eternal Spirit, doth declare: (That those Cursing, Railing, and Lying Answers of Edw. Burroughs) were the only fit Answers to the Priests Trappaning Questions. See Dial. 3. pag. 80. Will. Pen. Oh ungodly Slander! the Lord rebuke thy Foul spirit. Counterfeit Christ. pag. 44. Tho. Hicks. These are William Pens words; with respect to the Answers Edw. Burroughs gave to the 20 Questions, before hinted. I warrant it (saith Pen) from God; and by the sense of his Eternal Spirit, do declare: That it was the Portion and only fit answer to be given to those Trappaning questions. † O horrid Excuse of such Rail, which is far worse than the Answers given. And had Edw. Burroughs gone into a Familiar, opening unto his Vulturous, Unclean, Serpentine Eye, all the deep things of the Spirit of God, and Mysteries of Holy Kingdom; who was in that Nature, that Crucified the Lord of them; Edw. Burroughs had brought the wrath of the Eternal God upon himself, instead of the Priest. Will. Pen, Reas. against Rail. pag. 164. (4.) Another Evil I accuse them of, is: Preferring their Pamphlets before the Bible. This was proved from the Titles they give to their own books; and the Titles they give to the Scripture, viz. The Voice of Wisdom: Breathe of true Love: Shield of Truth: A Spiritual Glass: Light risen out of Darkness. These are the Titles given to several of their books. But the Scriptures are called, Letter: Dead Letter: Paper, Ink and Writing: Carnal Letter, etc. 'Tis easy to judge by these Titles, to which the preference is given. (5.) They bid people follow the Light within; and if they do not, they load them with bitter Revile. Will. Pen, calls this a great Lye. Reas. against Rail. pag. 154. 156. Whereas the truth of this is so notorious, that it needs no proof. Witness their Rail at such, that in Conscience oppose them, and their Errors. (6.) They say God himself is the immediate Teacher of his People; and yet they appoint their Ministers to speak in such a place, etc. Dial. 2. p. 66. Will. Pen, saith, this is a very Lie, Reas. against Rail. pag. 156. I answer, Why may they not as well appoint persons beforehand, as they do Meetings, several days before. This latter was made an Excuse, for Will. Pens absence from this Meeting. It is usual, said a Friend of Will. Pens, for him to appoint Meetings some days before; engaging to be there, and he must not break his promise, etc. But if this will not amount to a full Proof of my Charge, then let me refer you to the Complaint of one, that was no stranger to their practices. And what meaneth, (saith he of the Quakers) That certain persons are appointed to spend the whole time in Speaking in every Meeting; and all the rest to come as Hearers, neglecting the Gift in themselves; only waiting upon their Lips. Spirit of the Hat. p. 29. (7.) I accuse them for Intitling God to sleeveless Errands. Of this I have given several Instances. Dial. 1. pag. 27. which cannot be disproved. (8.) I charge them for refusing a public Meeting, to Debate the chief things in Difference, between them and others. Under pretence of being cautious of running themselves into Jeopardies. See Dial. 3. pag. 88 Will. Pen. This is a Notorious Falsehood. Counterf. Christ. pag. 45. Tho. Hicks. That they did refuse, I can prove by many Witnesses; and that they excused themselves as before. Tho. Prior's Letter to Mr. Haworth, will testify. His words were these: It is expected, that the Book styled, The Quakers Converted, be the subject of the Dispute; and also that equal Liberty be admitted on both sides; And that the place be free from Disturbance and Molestation: For we understand that some of the Magistrates have made Enquiry, and are offended. Therefore I find that my Friends are Cautious, not to run themselves voluntarily into such Jeopardies, on slight Invitations, etc. The Reasons why they desired the place to be free from Molestation, was given in a second Letter, viz. (1.) That W. Haworth, and his Company might seriously consider of it, as not to draw and Invite others into Hazard and Danger. (2.) That they would be no means or Cause of Molestation, directly or indirectly; giving the Magistrate's occasion either by too much noise aforehand, or by Heat or Passion against us. But still the Book, Styled the Quaker Converted, must be the subject of the Debate. Whereas the Meeting was propounded to Debate the chief things in Difference between them and others; and the utmost Answer that as yet hath been given thereunto, is this: After the aforesaid Book hath been fully Examined, and Discoursed: Then if W. Haworth, hath not Disputing enough, he hath Liberty to propose other Questions in writing: And if they be such Learned ones as may tend to People's Edification. A A farther time may be granted to Debate them: Thus Tho. Prior in his second Letter. Moreover, I did above a Year ago, send six Questions to G. Whitehead, promising to meet him to Debate them in the most public Place I could get; but he would not accept thereof. See Dial. 3. p. 86, 87. (9) That they own the Scripture as far as it agrees to the Light in them. See Dial. 1. pag. 66. Will. Pen. This is an arrant Forgery. Reas. against Ray. p. 160. Thomas Hicks. This is before proved in their asserting the Scriptures to be given forth from the light within. (10) Did the light within Create the Heavens and the Earth? yea: Is it the immediate object of Divine Worship? yea. William Pen. These Answers are Forgeries, Reas. against Rail. 158, 159. Tho. Hicks. See this at large proved, under the Head of the light being God. (11) That if those things objected against the Quakers in two former Dialogues be true, that then Will. Pen hath confessed that a Quaker is quite another thing than a Christian: Dial. 3d. p. 1. William Pen. This is a forgery: I never said nor confessed any such thing in all my life: Counterf. Chr. p. 13. Tho. Hicks. Will. Pen hath written these words. He, (that is, Tho. Hicks) now to vindicate himself from such Injustice, hath given us a second part, wherein he hopes to make good what he hath charged upon us, by Quotations out of our own Books: which, if faithfully done, I shall freely acknowledge that a Quaker is quite another thing than a Christian, Will. Pen. Reas. against Rail. p. 2. (12) These words; which I relate in William. Pens name▪ (viz.) Were we what he represents us, the severest plagues and judgements of God would be our portion Dial. 3d. p. 1, 2. These I say he accounts a Forgery, Counterf. Chr p. 15. Let Will. Pens own book be read, and you will find these Words there: (viz.) were we, what he represents us in this very matter, the severest plagues and judgements of the Eternal God, we might justly expect to be our portion for ever, Will. Pen Reas. against Rail. p. 4. (13) William. Pen accuseth me with a downright Forgery, in giving this Answer in George Whitheads name, viz. That the plagues and judgements of God will follow thee, Dial. 2. p. 1. Reas. against Railing, p. 163. The truth of this Answer see attested to, under Mr. john Gladmans' hand, Dial. 3d. p. 85. (14) That their owning Christ, is no other than a mere Mystical Romance;— And that the light in them sees no necessity of a Mediator. William Pen. These are lies and slanders, Reas. ag. Rail. p. 154. Tho. Hicks. They that deny Jesus Christ to be a distinct person without us, are guilty of the first: And they that maintain, That God accepts not any who do not fulfil the Law, and answer every demand of Justice, can see no necessity of a Mediator. (15) Another Lie Will. Pen doth accuse me of, is this: That the Quakers deny Christ's visible coming and appearance in the world. See his Reas. ag. rail. p. 154. where he refers you to Dial. 2d. p, 37, 45. Be pleased to examine the pages referred unto by Will. Pen— and then Judge. The question there is this; Whether Christ did not dwell amongst his Saints after another manner and more Visible, than now he dwells in them? To which Edward Burroughs returned this Answer. For thy word Visible: he is not, nor never was Visible to thee, nor thy Generation, etc. Upon this I said, That the Quaker denies that Christ was ever visible to wicked men, such as he esteemed the Querist to be, etc. See Dial. 2d. p. 37. (16) That they account the Blood of Christ no more than the blood of a common Thief. See Dial. 1. William Pen. This is an ungodly Aspersion. Reas. ag. Rail. p. 154. Tho. Hicks. See this fully proved, Dial. 2d. p. 3, 4. (17) That one of their friends bid her husband take another woman, Dial. 2d. p. 63. (18) That a Revelation hath been pretended to excuse the payment of a just Debt, Dial. 1. 26. (19) That some of their Friends have excused some of their Villainies, by pretences to the innocent Life, Dial. 3. Epist. Concerning these three last, I propose this unto the Quakers, that if they will choose six sober, and disinterested persons. I also will do the like; And if I cannot give sufficient Reasons for what I have Objected against them, I will contentedly submit, to what those twelve men shall determine. We whose names are hereunder written, do certify that the aforesaid Quotations, are truly recited out of those Books to which they refer, Witness our hands. My occasions calling me from the meeting, before the ending thereof, but since, having perused the proofs, by comparing them with the Quakers Books whence they are cited, I find them to agree. Witness my hand. William Kiffen. Dan. Dyke. Han. Knollys John Gesnell Tho. Paul Henry Forty John Norcot Tho. Wilcocks Robert Snelling Maurice King Jonathan Jennings Thomas Plant Joseph Morton Owen Davis John Hunter John Snelling William Dix John Vernon. Edw. Noble Rob. Maton John Singleton Dr. James Baron. There are many more both Ministers and others, who are ready and willing (if occasion serve) to attest the same. Note also, That those Instances in the foregoing Margins, were added since the Meeting for further proof. A Postscript to the Reader. HAving seen William Pens complaint, wherein after his idle Excuses, He is pleased to propose for a public Meeting: To which I answer, That such a Meeting never was refused, but often hath been desired by me, provided, That the matters in controversy betwixt us, might be the subject of the Debate: Accordingly, I did long since send Six Questions to G. Whitehead, promising to meet him in the most public place I could procure, so be it, he would comply with these Conditions: (1) That I might have liberty to produce their own Books, to be read openly, for the clearing matter of fact. (2) That we might agree upon a Rule by which our Discourse may be determined. (3) That he would speak directly and plainly to the Question. (4) That but one at a time should speak: and (last,) That any who would might write after us. The Questions were these: (1) Whether the Light in every man be God? (2) Whether the Light in every man, be the true and very Christ the Scripture speaks of? (3) Whether Christ hath not a personal Being without men? (4) Whether the Soul be part of Gods Being, without Beginning, and infinite? (5) Whether none of those things which God hath given by way of Command to others, be a Command to me? (6) Whether the speaking of the Spirit in the Quakers, be of greater Authority than the Scriptures? G. Whitehead would not accept hereof; though I told him, These were some of the things which the Dialogue objects against them; But if William Pen will engage in the Disquisition of these Questions, upon the Conditions aforesaid; and also, That no more than three of each side, be allowed to Debate, and but one of those three to speak at a time, equal liberty being granted on each side, to those persons nominated and allowed; upon notice of his willingness, He shall (God willing) be attended: But if he refuse, 'tis expected, he give sufficient Reasons why he doth so. Forasmuch, as these are some of the principal matters in difference, every Question having its Foundation in their own Books, (as the foregoing Narrative will abundantly manifest,) whereupon, I conceive, he ought not to decline them; yet nevertheless, if he shall rather choose to insist upon other matters of less importance, giving his Reasons why these, and not those before propounded, Then, let him send me the particulars thereof, subscribed with his own hand, and I will give him a speedy answer. I have now a few things to add, (respecting matter of fact) which were not spoken to, in the Public meeting aforesaid, (1) That they (the Quakers) make use of the Scriptures only to silence them, that plead for it as their rule, see Dial. 1. p. 24, 25. Will. Pen accounts this, a Forgery Reas. ag. Rail. p. 158. my answer is, That I have given an instance, (and that of no ordinary Quaker) By whom, words of such an import were spoken, and withal plainly intimated to whom he so expressed himself, see Dial. 3. pag. 36. Another particular (which Will. Pen in his wont modesty calls a lie) Is that Instance, concerning Nicolas Lucas, Dial. 2. p. 71— In this also, I have been cleared, and vindicated, Inasmuch as the person, from whom I had the relation, (who heard him speak the words) hath Attested it, to Nicolas Lucas before witnesses, And whereas 'tis said in the Append. to Reas. against Rail. p. 12. That it was referred to Henry Stout to witness that charge, Reader, I do assure thee, that no such matter was referred to him. The next thing, (which Will. Pen in his haste hath branded for a lie and slander) Is this, That I should say, The tendency of all the Quakers reasoning about Instituted, Religion, is to Debauch mankind, and to teach men to live in rebellion against God, Dial. 3. p. 65 In answer hereunto, I shall produce Will. Pen himself for my compurgator, Who, concerning the ordinances of water Baptism, and breaking of Bread, writes thus. I would not have any so sottish as to think, That Christ came to abolish the shadows of the Jews, And Institute others in their room, He came to remove, and abolish the very nature of such ordinances, I affirm, circumcision, is as much in force as Water-baptism, And the paschal Lamb, as Bread, and Wine, They were both but shadows, and both Elementary, and perishable, And though the latter were more Immediately forerunning and Introductory of the substance itself, yet not to be perpetuated; For a continuance of them, had been a Judaizing of the spiritual, and Evangelicall worship, The Gospel would have been a state of Figures, Types, and shadows, which to assert or practise, is as much as in us lies to pluck it up by the Roots, The Appellation [Ordinances of Christ] I therefore Renounce as unscriptural, & inevangelical Besides the spirit of whoredom from God Gross Apostasy, Superstition and Idolatry, yea a spirit of Hypocrisy, persecution, and murder, and all manner of wickedness has got them, and covered itself with them; And we can testify, from the same spirit by which Paul renounced Circumcision, That they are to be rejected, as not now required, And the Lord will appear to gather people out of them, but never to establish, or keep people in them, Thus Will. Pen Reas. against Rail. p. 108, 109. Now whether I have not sufficiently discharged myself from those things whereof William Pen hath accused me, I shall submit to the Judgement of all impartial men. And since the Quakers have appealed, whether they ought not to be concluded by their judgement to whom the Appeal was made, especially this position of Will. Pens. Being considered, (viz.) That to which an Appeal is made, must be capable of giving an infallible Judgement, and so a true Judge in the case, or else the Appeal is foolish, Will. Pen Spir. of Tr. p. 78. Yet lest Will. Pen (who abounds with shifts) should not stand by his own Doctrine, but abuse the world with such Glosses, as neither his words nor practice will in any wise bear, it will not be amiss, to Anticipate such Attempts of that man of confidence, To give some account of an Appeal, which was once made against Will. Pen, to the Quakers at the Bull and mouth, The persons appealing, were, (after some scornful Treats) put off, with this answer, That Will. Pen had answered it, in his winding-sheet, which Answer, I shall give you in his own words. Doth he own our Authority? Then his Appeal is something, If not, He Appeals Idly, and unjustly, But since he doth seem to Appeal to them, And supposeth them, to have a right to deal with me, It is apparent, That he owns it (that is, their Authority) so far as concerns Judgement betwixt us, Paul therefore Appealed to Caesar because of his ability both to know his Case, and to do him right, And therefore in the case of this man's Appeal, Both the light and our friends are thereby judged able, and himself, to be concluded by their Judgement, which is this, That H. Hedworth, first Author of the Spir. of the Quakers Tried, Then of Controversy ended; Is a busy body, cavilling, conceited, proud, wrathful, equivocating, slandering, yet cowardly man, That loves debate, which is both unable to maintain what he gins, and afraid to own it, when he hath done, Will. Pen winding sheet, p. 8. By this, Reader, Thou mayest guests, To what little purpose it is, to appeal against a Qaaker, to the Quakers; who instead of a fair and just hearing of the person grieved, or examining (as honest men would have done) the matters in difference, shall, I say, constitute the very person offending, To determine, give sentence in his own case, such a procedure as this, (I believe) is not to be instanced (the Quakers excepted) among any sort of men either Christian, or Heathen. However, since it is so, That Will. Pen (in his great wisdom,) hath published such a judgement in print, whereby all men may be acquainted, what Justice there is amongst the governing Quakers, It will be requisite, (and I presume Will. Pen hath not reason to be offended, it being his own method,) for this once, that a fool be answered, according to his folly. The Quakers appealed to the Baptists, against Tho. Hicks, I would ask the Quakers (for so Will. Pen hath taught me) whether they own their Authority? if they do, The Appeal is something, If not, They have Appealed idly and unjustly, But since they have seemed to Appeal to them, And supposed them to have a right to deal with Tho. Hicks, 'tis apparent, That they own their Authority so far as concerns a Judgement, betwixt Will. Pen, & Tho. Hicks, for Paul therefore Appealed to Caesar, Because of his ability, both to know his case, & do him right: therefore in the case of the Quakers Appeal, The Light, and the Baptists, are thereby judged able, and the Quakers to be concluded by their Judgement; which (I may safely say, though not deputed by them to pronounce it) is this, That Will. Pen, the Author of Reas. against Rail. Then of Counterfeit Christian Detected: is a busy body, cavilling, conceited, proud, wrathful, equivocating, slandering, yet cowardly man, that loves Debate, which is both unable to maintain what he gins, and afraid to own it, when he hath done. If against this it be objected, (as indeed it is by Will. Pen, in his naked truth) That their Appeal did not intent such a power of Judging in the Baptists, That they should Try whether Tho. Hicks was Guilty. But for Judgement against Him, And not that the Quakers would be concluded by the Baptists judgement Right or wrong. Let all men take notice, of the unrighteousness of the Quakers, who would have a man condemned, without being Tried, But is it the part of a just judge to pass sentence upon a man, merely upon an Accusation, without a legal Trial? certainly had I been Arraigned in the Quakers court, especially at such a time when Will. Pen, had presided; my Head should not have gone down to the grave in peace, But if this be the method of proceed (as in all probability it is) amongst the Governing Quakers, I do earnestly pray, from such a Government, and Governors, Good Lord Deliver me Thomas Hicks. THE END.