A Brief discourse of certain points of the religion, which is among the common sort of Christians, which may be termed the Country Divinity.  
With a manifest confutation of the same, after the order of a Dialogue.  
Compiled by George Gifforde.  
Imprinted at London for Toby Cook, dwelling at the Tigers head in Paul's churchyard and are there to be sold. 1582.   

To the Right honourable his very good Lord, Ambrose Earl of Warwick, Master of her majesties Ordinance, Knight of the noble order of the Garter, and one of her highness most honourable privy Council, George Gifford wisheth increase of all true happiness & honour, with the continual comfert of a good conscience.  
I Nothing doubt (right honourable) but that it will seem great rashness unto some, and no small folly, to offer and present so simple and slender a book as this is, unto your Lordship: for what doth it seem to bring with it worthy the person of a Noble man? There is no pomp in the manner of speech, for it is rude and country like: the matter itself is not handled as a disputation between deep divines, but after the manner of plough men and cartars: a great absurdity therefore appeareth in this, that an honourable person of great dignity should be called for, as it were to stand by and hear such speak. Good cause there is therefore that I should render some reason of this my boldness, which I will willingly do, to use that which the heathen Poet saith:  Si canimus syluas, syluae sunt consule dignae. 
Will not suffice: for although respecting the things which I handle, because they belong to the trees that are planted in the Lord's Orchard, they do as far excel the woods and groves, as the vine doth the bramble bush, yet nevertheless he hath so richly decked his base & beggarly matter, he hath so clothed it in silks from top to toe, and hath hanged so many jewels upon it: that it shall find entertainment, and be thought meet for the courts of princes, where as mine being very poorly clad, will be rejected. I will express therefore a better reason of my doing, which is this. As those which have corn fields, think it not a thing unmecte to be told by their servants of thistles & weeds, which would hinder & mar the corn, if they provide not to have them plucked up: even so I know that it is not an unworthy thing to show unto those which are of high calling, the hurtful & dangerous weeds which would overgrow and choke the heavenvly seed of the gospel, sown in the Lord's field. When as our church therefore & common wealth, being the Lord's husbandry, is overgrown with weeds & almost laid waste, I see no cause wherefore I may justly be blamed, for giving notice thereof in sun part unto your honour. Seeing their principal causes and sountaines from whence corruptions flow are to be taken away and dried up by those whom God hath placed in the highest rooms. Among which the want of a sincere ministery of the word is the greatest through absence of which, there is a flood of ignorance and darkness, overflowing the most part of the land: the fear of God is banished from the greatest part: the wonderful heaps and piles of sin, which should be washed and cleansed away by the word, do undoubtedly with one voice cry aloud in the ears of the Lord, for vengeance upon the whole realm. The papists cannot be converted, but hardened & turned out of the way, there is so foul disorder, and so many stumbling blocks cast in the way. The Devil hath elbow room to spread abroad, to plant & water all kind of errors, so few there be to withstand him. But to come to that particular which I handle in this treatise: there are the most in number, who having Popery taken from them and not taught thoroughly and sufficiently in the Gospel, do stand as men indifferent, so that they may quietly enjoy the world, they care not what religion come: they are like naked men fit and ready for any coat almost that may be put upon them. The life of these is exceeding profane they have hardened themselves in their sins, by reason which they gather partly out of their own brain, & partly out of some sayings in the word, by which they cloak & defend their own corrupt ways. I have therefore gathered the most common principles of their faith and religion, by which they arm themselves, against true repentance, and right understanding: I have not noted all, neither have I meddled with those several gross absurdities, which each hath proper to himself, for that should be infinite. I trust your Lordship will rightly construe my good meaning, and take in good worth this simple treatise: pitying the case of the poor church of Christ, which is so full of grievous sicknesses and sores, that unless she be relieved and cured, she will scarce be able to continue life. She cannot but most humbly crave his duty at the hands of those which are near about her dear Nurse: From whom she hath now long time received wonderful protection and defence against adversaries: that they make known her state, and labour the recovery & retaining of her health. Because it doth stand not only with their eternal glory in the world to come, but also with their honourable estate in this life. Which cannot be established to flourish in continuance, unless the Lord God have his throne so erected in the midst of her that she may flourish. For where he is dishonoured and despised of those whom she nourisheth in her bosom, her case is dangerous, for it is against all wise policy to make him an adversary, who hath all power, & of himself is able to root out and destroy mighty kingdoms: so that if she keep in favour & league with him, there is no fear of any other.  
This Lord of Lords, and most mighty king increase abundantly in ye all heavenly & spiritual graces, with increase of honour in this world, to his glory etc. your eternal comfort Amen.  
Your honours most humble to command George Gifford.   

¶ A brief discourse of certain points of the religion, which is among the common sort of Christians: which may be termed the Country divinity: with a plain and manifest confutation of the same, after the order of a Dialogue.  zealots. Atheos. zealots. 
WEll overtaken my friend.  Atheos. 
I thank you Syr.  zealots. 
How far doeye● travel this way?  Ath. 
Iwentie miles.  Zealot. 
Do you dwell in Essex.  Ath. 
Yea, not far from Clelmeforde.  Zealot. 
What call ye the Town where ye dwell?  Ath. 
G. B.  Zealot. 
Have ye a preacher there?  Ath. 
We have an honest man our Curate.  Zealot. 
Doth he teach his flock?  Ath. 
He doth his good will, and more ye cannot require of a man.  Zealot. 
Ye did commend him even now, to be an honest man.  Ath. 
Commend him: yea I may commend him: I am persuaded we have the best Priest in this Country, we would be loath too forego him for the Learnedest of them all.  Zealot. 
I pray ye let me hear what his virtues be, for which ye do commend him so highly.  Ath. 
He is as gentle a person as ever I see: a very good fellow, he won't stick when good Fellows and honest men meet together too spend his groat at the Alehouse: I cannot tell, they preach and preach, but he doth live as well as the best of them all. I am afraid when he is gone we shall never have the like again.  Zealot. 
Be these the great virtues which ye do commend him for, he may have all these, and yet be more meet for too keep swine, than too be a shepherd over the flock of Christ, is he able to teach the people, and doth he instruct them in God's word?  Ath. 
I know not what teaching ye would have, he doth read the service, as well as any of them all, and I think there is as good edifying in those prayers and Homilies, as in any that the Preacher can make: let us learn those first.  Zealot. 
That is not all which is required in a Minister, for a boy of ten years old can do all this: doth he not teach them too know the will of GOD and reprove naughtiness among the people?  Ath. 
Yes that he doth, for if there be any that do not agree, he will seek for too make them friends: for he will get them too play a game or two at Bowls or Cards, and too drink together at the Alehouse: I think it a Godly way, to make Charity: he is none of these busy controllers: for if he were, he could not be so well liked of some (and those not of the meanest) as he is.  Zealot. 
Do ye call the Preachers of God's word busy controllers? do they go further than God's word doth lead them?  Ath. 
We may call them busy controllers, I think we shall do nothing shortly, as poor a man as I am, I would not for forty shillings that we had one of them, there be more of my mind.  Zealot. 
Some poor men perhaps.  Ath. 
Nay, the best in the Parish, who would not so well like of our Curate, if he should meddle that way.  Zealot. 
I perceive now what manner of man your Curate is, and I see like master like scholar.  Ath. 
Why so I pray ye?  Zealot. 
Why so, I smell how unmeet he is, & also how ignorant you are. Let me question a little while with ye concerning that which ye have uttered.  Ath. 
I trust I have uttered nothing but that which doth become an honest man.  Zealot. 
Nay all your speech doth beewraye that you are a carnal man, for you have made a very fine description of a good Curate, what mean ye when ye say he is a good fellow, and will not stick to spend his money among good fellows, is it not because he is a pot companion?  Ath. 
Do ye mislike good fellowship, is it not lawful for honest men to drink and be merry together?  Zealot. 
I do not mislike true friendship, which is in the Lord, knit in true Godliness, but I mislike this vice, which overfloweth every where, that Drunkards meet together and sit quaffing, and the minister which should reprove them, to be one of the chief: when he should be at his study, to be upon the Alebench at Cards or dice.  Ath. 
I perceive you are one of those curious and precise fellows, which will allow no recreation, what would ye have men do? we shall do nothing shortly. You would have them sit mooping always at their books, I like not that.  Zealot. 
Nay my friend, I do not allow that recreation, which profane men call so, which is no recreation, but a torment to a Godly mind, to see men drunken, to hear them swear, and rail, to spend their goods and their time so lewdly, and he that should teach them, to be a Ringleader: as there be many as it seemeth, which are entered into the ministery, for none other purpose, but to live an idle life, to have leisure to play at Cards, or Tables, and Bowls all the Week. And therefore they have no skill to teach, but like unsavoury salt, are not good even for the dunghill.  Ath. 
These things were used before you were borne, and will be when you are gone. So long as men think no hurt when they play and be merry.  Zealot. 
I perceive ye are of the right stamp, ye are light upon an argument, which may well be termed old Suersebee, because it bringeth a reason which doth stick by many, when all other reasons forsake them. But let us pull this old fellow out of his new coat, and ye shall see what a lean shrimp he is, and so feeble, that he cannot go on stiltes: these things were used say you, before you were borne, so were all other naughty vices, are they now good because they be old? Because men committed them before I was borne, and will do when I am dead.  Ath. 
I mean not so, but there were as wise men, and wiser than he now among our Forefathers: and they would not have used nor allowed such things, if they had not been good: they knew well enough what they did. Let not us be more precise than they were.  Zealot. 
I perceive you ground your faith and your doings upon men, and not upon God's word.  Ath. 
I pray GOD I may follow our Forefathers, and do no worse than they did: what should we seek for too be wiser or better than they: I would we could do but as well as they did.  Zealot. 
Do you not think that there were among our forefathers, thieves, murderers, adulterers, drunkards, and such like?  Ath. 
I think there have been always evil doers: and willbe while the worlds end.  Zealot. 
Would ye have us to follow those, and to take their vices?  Ath. 
We are not to follow any thing but that which is good: and those which were godly and wise.  Zealot. 
Is there any thing good, but that which God setteth down in his word? and were any wise and Godly, but such as did follow the will of GOD expressed in his word?  Ath. 
There is nothing good but of GOD, and such as do as he commandeth.  Zealot. 
Then you see old suresebee laid flat upon the ground, and your lusty champion is manifested to be but k●●ne and bones, and the same draff rotten: for now by your own confession doth follow that the word of God is the only rule, and we must follow our Forefathers no further than they follow the word of God. You must not follow David nor Abraham in every thing they did. Furthermore also these naughty vices and corrupt customs came from the wicked forefathers, & not from the godly, which followed gods word.  Ath. 
That is true, but I will follow our forefathers, now there is no love, than they lived in friendship, and made merry together, now there is no good neighbourhood: now every man for himself, and are ready to pull one another by the throat.  Zealot. 
There are but a few of your mind in this thing, are there?  Ath. 
Yes the greatest part: for I know almost none, but they will affirnie this matter.  Zealot. 
If the greatest part to be of your mind, wherefore is there not then a great deal of love and friendship where you say there is none: why do ye not being the most in number, repair the ruins of that old faithful friendship, which ye say is decayed? ye say that there was love and friendship, and ye seem to lament the want of them, and yet there is none in yourselves: for ye be very full of malice and strife? is there any buzzard so blind, but that he may espy your gross folly and vanity in this point: when with open mouth, ye cry for love, love, and be the greatest enemies thereunto yourselves.  
Moreover ye follow your own fond and doting opinion, that ye imagine a thing which never was, for the World hath ever been like itself, full of debate and strife, a very few in all ages which have had true love: Again, you call none love, but that carnal love, which is in eating and drinking, and other foolish delights. That which is the true love, you condemn to be hatred: For if a man admonish and reprove you for any naughty vice, which is the greatest love: by and by ye stamp and stare like mad men, and say now there is no love, except a man do flatteryee, and be partaker of your foul and beastly sins, ye are at deadly hatred with him. But let us return again too Sir Robert, ye said he was as good a liver as the best of them all.  Ath. 
I say so still, for he is content with his living: many of your spiritual men are never satisfied: for with that poor living he hath, he doth keep a good house and doth feed the poor.  Zealot. 
You prove him to be a good Liver, by comparing him with those which are worse: It is all one as if a man would proof a thief which hath stolen twenty pound too be a good thief, because he is not so evil as he, which hath stolen a thousand pounds.  Ath. 
ye do not well to compare true men with thieves.  Zealot. 
Is not he a thief which doth take the hire and doth not that which he should do for it?  Ath. 
He is as good as a thief, I think so.  Zealot. 
Do not they rob them which take the living and do not feed the flock? Let me ask ye a question, if a man rob and steal and then keep a house, and feast his neighbours with it, and be a Murderer, will his good house keeping make him a good Liver?  Ath. 
No that it will not.  Zealot. 
Let me ask ye another question, which is the worse murderer, he which doth murder the body, or he which doth murder the soul?  Ath. 
He which doth murder the soul.  Zealot. 
Then he which should feed men's bodies committed unto him, and doth pine them to death, is a murderer: and he which should feed men's souls and doth starve them, is a greater murderer, and so his good house keeping cannot make him a good man, robbing so many, and killing so many.  Ath. 
I will not believe that he doth kill any.  Zealot. 
That is because ye will not believe the saying of Christ: if the blind lead the blind they both fall into the ditch, nor that God will save men by the word preached.  Ath. 
I hope we be not blind, I trust we believe all well.  Zealot. 
You are blind and should have a guide to lead ye the way to heaven, and to instruct ye in true godliness.  Ath. 
I will not learn the way to heaven of any man, for I hope I have as good a faith and as good a soul to Godward as the best learned of them all.  Zealot. 
Whereby do you try your goodness and your faith, any other way then by your own blind fantasy?  Ath. 
I mean well: I hurt no man: nor I think no man any hurt: I love God above all: and put my whole trust in him: what would ye have more? they preach and teach, they can tell us no more but this: when they have all said what they can.  Zealot. 
Now ye tumuble it up together in deed: I see well it is no small trouble to bring an ignorant man, for to see his folly.  Ath. 
I have uttered my conscience: if I say not well, I am ready for too learn.  Zealot. 
What need you learn when you know all afore hand even as much as all the preachers can tell ye?  Ath. 
ye take me at the worst, the wisest of us all may learn.  Zealot. 
You said that ye love GOD above all: and you think no man no hurt, I take it your meaning is, that ye do love GOD with all your heart, and your neighbour as yourself, and more than this cannot be taught.  Ath. 
We should do this, if we do it not, God forgive us.  Zealot. 
This is all, is it not, what needeth any more teaching.  Ath. 
Let men do this first, and afterward, if they will learn more, let them.  Zealot. 
Ye give very grave advise now, if there were any to follow it.  Ath. 
I have no learning, but I think if men would do this, it would not be so evil as it is.  Zealot. 
If every thing which is spoken truly, be spoken wisely, than you have uttered a very wise saying, for I am sure there cannot be a truer. I believe indeed ye have no learning, and I am sure as you say, if men should do that, there would not be so much evil among us.  Ath. 
ye think peradventure that I speak like a fool, I would I were as wise as those which I hear say so.  Zealot. 
Have ye many of these great Wise men, which would have men first fulfil the ten Commandments and then run to hear sermons.  Ath. 
All things are well spoken which are well taken: if they be not wise I pray God make them wise: I have nought to do with them.  Zealot. 
Ye are a plain man and have skill in outward things, will ye give me leave to ask you a question in a matter wherein ye have understanding?  Ath. 
I thank God I dare answer to a question.  Zealot. 
Are ye a carpenter or a mason?  Ath. 
I have no skill that way.  Zealot. 
Then if there be a great house of timber and stone, to build, you can not build it?  Ath. 
If there were no better builders, than I, there would not be so many gay houses.  Zealot. 
If one should say here is a very fair house too be builded, it is no more but to lay a good foundation, too raise up the walls and to finish the roof, you know this all: therefore ye can build it for ye know all.  Ath. 
I know this is all: but I can do never a whit of it, unless a carpenter or a builder do teach me.  Zealot. 
Ye say well, even so to love GOD with all our heart, with all our mind, and our neighbour as ourself, is all, but we know not how to do one jot of it, unless we be taught it out of god's word.  Ath. 
God grant we may, for there be over many which do not regard it.  Zealot. 
Let me now ask you further, put case one should say unto you, thus, you know all that is to be done in building an house: the foundation, the walls, and the roof, do these first, if ye will learn any more, ye may go to some Carpenter.  Ath. 
There is no man so foolish, to give a man that counsel.  Zealot. 
It is the Counsel you gave, and the wise men which ye spoke of, which would have men first to do and afterward to learn.  Ath. 
Nay to do that they know, and afterward to learn more: for there was never more knowledge and less doing.  Zealot. 
It is a very pitiful case to see, how the world is blinded, ye bring not this out of your own bouget: for there be very many wise and jolly heads, which stand much upon this which you speak: they never understood that which Solomon saith, Proverb, 1. cap. 22. ver. Ye fools be enemies unto knowledge, or hate▪ knowledge. Neither do they know that which Saint Paul speaketh. 1, Cor. 8, 2. If any man think he knoweth any thing, he knoweth nothing as yet, as he ought to know. They never considered what the holy Ghost saith in the latter end of the fift Chapter to the Hebrews. ver. 12. Where he doth sharply reprove them, because they were children in understanding. Neither do they know that all well doing proceedeth from faith, & faith doth increase through knowledge: it grieveth me to stand upon the matter, the saying is so buzzardly.  Ath. 
You would have all men divines. I think it is not for plowmen to meddle with the Scriptures.  Zealot. 
You think so, but I pray you to whom speaketh the Lord by the Properer Esay, when he saith: My people perish for want of knowledge. Unto whom speaketh the Lord by the Prophet Hoseas. Chap. ●●. 1. 2. When he saith: there is no truth, there is no mercy, nor knowledge of God in the land, But swearing, lying, killing, thee●●ing, committing adultery, etc. Unto whom wrote Saint Paul, saying▪ Brethren be children in malice, be not children in understanding, & unto whom wrote Saint Peter exhorting so much unto knowledge?  Ath. 
I think knowledge doth make men the worse, for there be no worse men than many that be great scripture men: none will deceive a man sooner than they: they will speak a man fair before his face, and be ready behind his back for to cut his throat.  Zealot. 
It seemeth that you are no small man, there is a great deal of good stuff in you if you would utter it.  Ath. 
I tell ye my mind plainly, I will not flatter any man.  Zealot. 
Ye need not tell me that, I know what manner of man ye be. Let us come to your last words, ye did speak very lewdly, do ye think that knowledge doth make men worse?  Ath. 
I hear many say so: if I speak ●ew● lie, there be a number more beside me, that do so.  Zealot. 
If knowledge make men the worse, than is it a thing that is not good of itself, for that which is good can not make a man evil: is there any beast which will say, That to know GOD or the will of God which is most holy and pure, can make ● man the worse? No these men are more than beasts. Again, the more a man knoweth of God the worse he should be, a very filthy blasphemy.  
Moreover you are greatly deceived, when ye think that all those which can talk of the Scriptures have knowledge, for there be very many carnal prattlers, which seem for to know much, and yet are as blind as buzzards: these are naughty men, not because they have knowledge, but because they want knowledge.  Ath. 
I cannot tell, a man shall hear them say a great deal out of the Bible.  Zealot. 
No doubt a great deal more th● they understand: now when such do not live well, doth it follow that God's word maketh them worse? nay ye be all blind Asses which cannot see, that because there is very little true understanding of God's word among men, therefore there is so much uncleanness: For as the holy Ghost saith Psal. 119. 9 Wherewithal shall a young man cleanse his way even by taking heed thereto according to thy word. Now when men do not understand the word, how shall they take heed to their ways, for to guide them by the same. And when GOD saith the word doth cleanse us, his meaning must needs be, that all such as are not purged thereby, are foul and filthy in his eyes.  Ath. 
ye have of your preachers, tr●● pulpit men, and can say very well: but their deeds are as evil as other men's, for who is more covetous than they: they are never content until they have heaped living upon living.  Zealot. 
Such skilful men as you, think if a man can preach or rather (as a number do) prattle and have a rolling tongue and can make some show of learning, that by and by he is a trim man, and hath great knowledge: when as in deed he hath no true knowledge. For I count him to have true knowledge, which hath so learned Christ, that he is become a new creature. Therefore Saint john in the 3. Chapter 5. 6. verses, of his first Epistle speaking of Christ, saith: That he was made manifest to take away our sins, and in him is no sin: Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not. Whosoever sinneth hath not seen him nor known him. Likewise in the first book of Samuel. cap. 2. vers. 12. It is said by the sons of Elye, that they were the sons of belial, and knew not God: and yet they were instructed in the law, and taught the people. And for mine own part I could never perceive that any wicked man could preach worth a button▪ I mean concerning, the chief thing required in preaching, which is the declaration of the power of the spirit which ought for to appear, to the conversion of sinful men. For to lay open points of doctrine, they may do it well.  Ath. 
It is not for us that are simple men for to judge who doth well, and who doth no●.  Zealot. 
Yes that it is, for Saint john saith, try the spirits whether they be of God▪ Our Saviour Christ sayeth, my sheep hear my voice a stranger they will not hear. Whereupon it doth follow that he which knoweth not when pure doctrine and wholesome is uttered, is not as yet among the number of the sheep of Christ. For if he were endued with the spirit of God, he should by the same spirit feel when wholesome doctrine is delivered unto him.  Ath. 
If a man be learned, than he shall be able to judge what is sail rightly: otherwise he cannot tell.  Zealot. 
It is not learning alone which must judge of sound preaching, for there be many learned men which cannot judge well, as also there be many unlearned, which are very well able to discern, all lieth in this point the doctrine is of God, & not of men, and therefore those do feel it, and judge rightly whether they be learned or unlearned, whom God doth inwardly teach with his spirit: for this cause S. Paul. 1, Cor. 14. doth show that the word of God is so to be laid open in the congregation, that if there come▪ in a man unlearned or an infidel, he may be reproved & judged, & the secrets of his heart made manifest. For if the word be not preached unto the consciences of men, it goeth away like a dead sound. But we go into many matters, I have not forgotten your former words: but perhaps ye would be loath to come to that again.  Ath. 
I am not ashamed of any thing, which I said, and I hope I need not.  Zealot. 
No, your wares are so fine, ye need not care who view them, you love God above all, and with all your heart.  Ath. 
That I do, or else I were a beast, I would he were hanged which doth not▪ that.  Zealot. 
Ye love your neighbour as yourself?  Ath. 
If I do not I pray GOD forgive me, I am sure no man can accuse me.  Zealot. 
Then you look by this means to come to heaven?  Ath. 
I hope if there be but three in all this country, go to heaven I shall be one of them, I mean so well.  Zealot. 
Ye know the commandments of God▪ and fulfil them also do ye not?  Ath. 
I thank God I know them: and will fulfil them as nigh as God shall give me grace.  Zealot. 
Do ye break none of them?  Ath. 
We break them all of us daily & horuely▪ for there is no man which can keep them all.  Zealot. 
You break some of them, and keep other some. Ye keep the greatest, do ye not▪ and break the least?  Ath. 
I keep the greatest, and therefore I hope God will bear with me in the rest.  Zealot. 
Which do ye take for to be the greatest, that ye are so clear in?  Ath. 
I am no thief, nor murderer, nor traitor: I pay every man his own▪ I think this is God's bidding.  Zealot. 
Are there no greater than these?  Ath. 
I take him for an honest man which doth keep these, and he that doth not I defy him.  Zealot. 
Even so will I take you to be, when I know that you do keep them▪ But I marvel ye are so bold for to bid defiance to so many.  Ath. 
Do not you des●e them all? and all other evil doers?  Zealot. 
If I should do so, you and I should be together by the ears by and by.  Ath. 
Then belike ye count●●ee to be such an one: ye ought not to judge.  Zealot. 
A man may know the tree by the fruits: but let this pass: I pray ye tell me is not he which hath more Gods then one, as evil as a murderer?  Ath. 
I take him to be worse.  Zealot. 
Then the first commandment is greater, than those which you named?  Ath. 
If a man think there is any God▪ but one, he is very far wide.  Zealot. 
You have none other Gods but one then?  Ath. 
It were pity of my life if I should not be of that belief. If all the commandments were as easy to be kept as this, we should do well.  Zealot. 
Then ye never broke the first Commandment.  Ath. 
Never in all my life: neither shall ever any make me to be but of God's belief: for they which believe there be many Gods are not of a right mind.  Zealot. 
Can you then keep the greater and no● the less? I do no● doubt but if a man can keep the first he can keep all, for the first is as hard as any of the rest, although such skilful clerk as you, count it to be very easy.  Ath. 
Then it were an easy matter to keep them.  Zealot. 
What if I prove unto ye that you break it, will you confess your folly?  Ath. 
I will never be made believe that which I know is contrary.  Zealot. 
●e● me ask ye this question▪ whether that man▪ doth keep this Commandment, which thinketh there is but one God▪ and yet giveth that honour and worship unto other things, which he should give unto him alone.  Ath. 
I did never put any trust in images, nor I never thought they could do me any good.  Zealot. 
I do not speak of that outward giving away of God's worship: but of an other which is inward in the mind.  Ath. 
I have always had God in my mind, and I trust I have never worshipped any besides him.  Zealot. 
Is not that a man's God which he loveth best: & which he doth most delight in?  Ath. 
Look what a man loveth best and taketh most delight in, I think he maketh that his god, because we ought to love god best.  Zealot. 
Do ye not think that the thing which a man most setteth his mind upon, & most seeketh after, is that which he most loveth?  Ath. 
I suppose every man looketh after that which he most loveth.  Zealot. 
Then he which seeketh the world more than God, loveth the world more than God: and therefore in very deed maketh the world his God?  Ath. 
God forbidden that any man should make more account of this world, then of God, I hope few do so.  Zealot. 
You hope few do so, but a man may easily prove that you do so, and I am sure the most do so.  Ath. 
I trust ye shall hardly prove it by me, although ye judge so evil of me.  Zealot 
Can a man seek after God, or set his delight upon God any other way, then by seeking after the knowledge and obedience of God's will, which he hath revealed in his word? or can a man love God, and not love his word?  Ath. 
God's word is good, we must love that all of us & be ruled by it, for it doth tell us nothing but that which is good.  Zealot. 
How slily you wind out of the matter I ask one thing which ye do not answer: and that is whether a man can seek God, and not seek him in his word?  Ath. 
Every man cannot be a Divine, we that be unlearned men are not for to meddle with so high matters.  Zealot. 
Now ye speak in your kind, we be unlearned men, we have nought to do with God, we may not meddle with him.  Ath. 
You take all things wrong, ye do not hear the say so.  Zealot. 
Do I take ye wrong, do ye not say so? tell me is not God as high a matter as his word?  Ath. 
God is above all.  Zealot. 
Can we have to do with God, to serve him any way but by his word?  Ath. 
The word of GOD doth tell by what we are to do.  Zealot. 
Then it followeth when ye say we may not meddle with so high matters, that ye were even as good for to say, we have nought to do with God. We own him no duty of obedience, we need not care to know his will: because he is as high a matter as his word.  Ath. 
You put in a great deal more than I said, and take me still at the worst.  Zealot. 
Nay you are so deep in your speech, that ye utter more in a word, than a man can well lay open in an hours talk: Again I take ye not at the worst, for make the best of it you can, and it must needs follow, that those which care not for the word of God, care not for him, neither do they delight in him, or love him which do not delight in him nor love his word.  
Moreover how shall a man take delight for to know the word, but it will cause him for to seek to know it, that which is a man's jewel he will some times look upon it: but there are a number of ye which are in deed very Atheists, and set no● a straw by the knowledge of Gods will: for let a man tell ye of any duty which ye should be taught out of the holy scriptures, by and by, this is your answer, those things are not for us to meddle withal: it is not for us to talk of such points. But we are gone a great way from the beginning of this matter, which is, that where ye did affirm that ye love God with all your heart, and that ye have none other Gods besides him: Now the conclusion is proved, that ye love him as much as an old shoe, and that in deed ye make the world your God, because ye seek most after that.  Ath. 
Ye do not use me well in saying that I love GOD no better than an old shoe, I would ye should know I love him as well as the best of ye all, though indeed I cannot say so much.  Zealot. 
Be not angry man, for it is but a small fault, for a great sort more do bear ye company, ye go not alone. But because ye make so great boast▪ I pray ye tell me this, ye have servants have ye not?  Ath. 
I have a poor household.  Zealot. 
What do you require of your servant?  Ath. 
To obey my will and to do that which I command him.  Zealot. 
What if he care not so much, as to know your will, but will say: I will not meddle with so high matters, nothing regarding to know your pleasure: will ye say he loveth ye, or he is a good servant?  Ath. 
I cannot say that he is a good servant, for if he were he would not take scorn but be glad to hear my will.  Zealot. 
Ye say right, but why do ye not consider that, when God hath set down his will & you care not for to know it, that ye love him as well and do him as good service, as such a servant should do unto you.  Ath. 
God help, if this which you say he true.  Zealot. 
It is most true, not only that men make the world their GOD, because they seek more after it then they do after God's kingdom, but also S. Paul calleth the Devil the God of this world, as also in another place he saith, there be some whose God is their belly.  Ath. 
God forbidden that any man should take the devil to be GOD, or do him such honour.  Zealot. 
They are no small number which make him their God.  Ath. 
You may say so, but I could never come into that man's company yet, which would not utterly defy him.  Zealot. 
If I should profess great kindness unto you now, and in the mean time draw my dagger and break your pate, would ye believe I were your friend?  Ath. 
I pray God keep me from such friends: which give good words and do evil deeds, I had rather they told me their hatred.  Zealot. 
Then ye answer that we must not look what men say, but what they do.  Ath. 
They had better not speak well, then speak well and do evil.  Zealot. 
Likewise I answer you that we must not look to men's words, when they defy the Devil, but to their deeds by which they obey him and do his will: for when they defy him in their words, they honour him for God in their works.  Ath. 
If there be any such, I pray GOD amend them, for that is the worst which I wish them.  Zealot. 
I could like your prayer well if it were not only for a fashion, as ye use many such like. For when it cometh to the trial, you will easily be found among the number of such.  Ath. 
If ye think me to be such an one, ye judge worse than ever any man did, I thank GOD I can bring many to testify that I am an honest man and always have been, I will be found as good as yourself, though ye find so great fault with other, as though ye were not like other men.  Zealot. 
I judge nothing but that which is easy to see, in you and in a number more, and which I can, and will prove to your face.  Ath. 
Ye are a stranger unto me, will ye judge of me, and know not what my works are.  Zealot. 
He which cannot spy ye, hath but a simple understanding: I pray ye tell me, such as do the works and will of the Devil, are they not of the Devil? Saint john 1. Epistle 3. saith, He that committeth evil is of the Devil. Likewise our Saviour Christ telleth the obstinate jews, joh. 8. Which boasted themselves to be the children of Abraham, and the children of God, that they were of their father the Devil, and why? because they did his will. Even so you take part with such as are evil, and wicked. Shall ye ask a little question?  Ath. 
Yea, ask what ye will, and judge what ye like best: but I will answer as well as I can.  Zealot. 
Do ye not think that all whoremasters, Drunkards, Dicers, Railers, Swearers, and such like, are the devils army, as on the other side, such as profess gods word and live godly, are his soldiers, and do fight under his banner?  Ath. 
They are well helped up which serve such a master.  Zealot. 
Why are you so unwise then as to serve him: for all those which take part with those wicked men, & rail upon those which are godly, do fight under the same standard, and seek to uphold the kingdom of the Devil, labouring for to overthrow the Gospel, and to banish God's word?  Ath. 
They are worthy to have their ears cut from their head, which rail upon honest men or seek to slander them.  Zealot. 
This is a common thing among all the pack of ye, if there be any man which hath a care to know God, and seeketh after his word, & will not commit those beastly sins which over flow in all places, than you which cannot abide to have God's word set forth, device a number of lies and slanders against them, calling them Puritans, rascals, and many such like. On the contrary part, let a man be a common drunkard, a Dicer, an ignorat beast which hath no knowledge of God, a wretched worldling, or any kind of such person: he is an honest man: for they be those whom you would have a man lose his ears for: he is now counted the honest man which liveth as the most do.  Ath. 
There be a number go so far they cannot tell what they may do: they will not do as their honest neighbours do, they willbe wiser than their betters: what should they meddle with God's word, it maketh ●hembusie in checking every man. It was never merry since men unlearned have meddled with the scriptures.  Zealot. 
I marvel how far you would go if a man should follow ye, ye are like a puddle, which the more a man stirreth it, the more filthy mud ariseth: ye are like a sink, where the more a man stirreth, the more is the stink.  Ath. 
What mean ye by that?  Zealot. 
I mean that your heart is full of foul slinking & rotten matter, which floweth out at your mouth. I confess that those men be not to be allowed which meddle with that which they should not: but I know whom you mean, when ye say they go so far, that they know not what they may do: ye speak of them which seek to know GOD, whom ye think to be half mad.  Ath. 
There be some of them which are not book learned, what should they do otherwise then their fathers before them: I knew some of their fathers, honest men, and never troubled themselves that way.  Zealot. 
I did know your mind well enough: for all your spite is against those which learn out of God's word to know their duty towards the lord: & because as S. Pet. saith, 1. Pe. 4. they do not run with ye to the same excess of riot, ye think it strange & blasphemy. Again, ye cannot abide to be admonished, when ye commit any naughty thing. Ye know not that God hath appointed his word for all sorts of men to be instructed in it thoroughly, for the holy Apostles exhort every where unto great knowledge in the word.  
Again ye know not that which the Lord commandeth in sundry places, that we should admonish, and reprove one another, if any do amiss: & not as you blind obstinate men, which when a man doth after a godly manner admonish ye: he is by and by a busy meddler, what hath he to do, he shall not answer for you. And because ye may not do what lewdness ye list, uncontrolled, ye say it was never merry since every man might, read the scriptures. It is marvelous that men should so become beasts without all understanding.  Ath. 
It would not grieve me to be reproved by those which are learned, but now every jack willbe meddling.  Zealot. 
If you be reproved justly by God's word, then is it God which doth reprove, ye are not to look upon the man. But when ye call them jacks, and give them other reproaches, it is because ye are blind, and can discern nothing but that which is of this world: For if ye could see how great glory the poorest true Christian is called unto, to be the child of God, ye would not revile those whom God honoureth.  Ath. 
They will be meddling in small matters, if it were for great saults it were somewhat, but a man may not be merry now.  Zealot. 
Being utterly blind, and void of grace, ye count those sins which are foul and gross, for to be small: swearing railing, talking in your filthy ribaldty, singing soul and beastly songs, these and such like are your petty faults: this is your mygth wh●●n must not be hindered: For it is death to ye to have any godliness spoken of, if it be, ye cannot be merry. This dunghill mirth is that which men complain of to be molested, and say it was happy in old time, when men were not reproved for such things, now there be so many scripture men, that a man cannot tell what to say or what to do.  Ath. 
There are none of ye all as holy as ye would seem for to be, but have faults, ye see not your own, but other men's.  Zealot. 
He which doth not repent and correct his own vicious nature and strive to obey God, is no good reprover of others: But when ye say, men seem to be holy and give it as a matter of reproach, therein ye go almost beyond the Devil himself: for you see that I gainsay ye, or else ye would not enure it, but ye would even power out your stinking & rotten poison like blasphemous and venomous beasts: ye would speak after this manner you that are so full of the spirit, you that are Saints and such like. What are you devils, are ye of the flesh? no doubt ye are until God convert ye. But we may see how devilishly men are become wicked: when a man cannot make any appearance to be godly and holy, but it is reproached as though it were a shameful thing to be led by the spirit. For otherwise why do they so object an honest thing to live after the flesh, a shameful matter to be guided by the spirit.  Ath. 
God help us if none be good but such, I hope honest and quiet men shallbe saved as well as they, although they cannot talk so well, nor run not to hear Sermons.  Zealot. 
Nay you would have others in better case than they, for you judge them that are zealous in the Gospel and would feignest of all other please God, to be the worst men, and the more careful a man is to be holy to the Lord, the more he is disdained and misliked. Which doth evidently show that such as you are led by the spirit of the Devil. Ye lead me so from one matter to another, that we are gone from something which ye uttered. I remember ye said ye put your whole trust in God.  Ath. 
I said so, & so I say still: though I have no learning, yet I trust I believe as well as any scripture man of them all.  Zealot. 
Ye brag very boldly, I pray ye tell me this, are ye sure ye shallbe saved?  Ath. 
No, nor you neither, nor the best of ye all, we must commit that too God.  Zealot. 
What is it that ye put all your whole trust in him for? Is it not this, that GOD hath promised unto ye eternal life, and that ye believe he will perform his promise?  Ath. 
That he doth love me and giveth me all things.  Zealot. 
Are ye not sure that he doth love ye?  Ath. 
I hope he doth love me: but I am not sure.  Zealot. 
Doth not the scripture say that whosoever doth trust in him shallbe saved?  Ath. 
God saith so indeed, and I believe it is so.  Zealot. 
You know do ye not, that ye put your whole trust and belief in him?  Ath. 
I know I do: and I hope I shall always do.  Zealot. 
If God can not lie, when he saith all that trust in him shall be saved, and you know that ye put your whole trust in him, Wherefore do ye not then know that ye shallbe saved?  Ath. 
That which God saith, is true, for he cannot lie: I put my trust in none but in him: I hope to be saved, what would ye have more? I will believe never a one of them all when they say they know they shallbe saved: I think they would make themselves Gods.  Zealot. 
Nay such as you make yourselves Gods, when ye join things so contrary together and can make them agree: fire and water may lodge together in one bed, at your inn, and agree well together: For they are no more contrary than that which ye affirm, when ye say God hath promised that all which believe in him shall be saved, you are sure ye believe in him and that ye put all your whole trust in him & yet ye can not tell whether ye shall be saved. But I can not greatly marvel at this, for ye know as well what faith is, as doth a Goose.  Ath. 
I trust I know, and I mean well, God knoweth my meaning howsoever you take me.  Zealot 
Let me ask ye this question, when a man prayeth if he do not believe that which he saith, doth he well?  Ath. 
We must believe that which we speak when we pray, or else it is nothing worth.  Zealot. 
When Christ teacheth us too pray, and too call GOD our Father, ought we not for to know that he is our Father?  Ath. 
We ought for to know, that which GOD teacheth us and to believe the same.  Zealot. 
Must we not believe it without doubting or wavering, as S. james saith he that doubteth is like unto a wave of the Sea tossed with the wind, neither let that man think that he shall receive any thing?  Ath. 
We must not doubt, for he that doubteth is in a wrong belief, we must put all our trust in God.  Zealot. 
Then when ye call GOD Father ye believe that surely which ye speak, then are ye sure that he loveth ye, for a father doth love his child, even men which are evil do give good gifts unto their children when they ask, because they love them, much more, the heavenly Father which is perfectly good doth love his children, that is, those which believe in him: then I reason in this wise, he that believeth surely that GOD is his father, he is sure that GOD loveth him: he that is sure god loveth him is sure of everlasting life: therefore all those which pray aright, are sure they shallbe saved.  Ath. 
I pray God we may call upon him.  Zealot. 
Tell me further what ye think, was not Abraham sure he should be saved, likewise David, Paul, and others?  Ath. 
Every man cannot be like those. Can you say ye are like unto Abraham?  Zealot. 
Doth not the scripture say, that Abraham is the father of the faithful, and that those are the children of God, which walk in the steps of faithful Abraham? I confess in deed that every one cannot attain to so great a measure of faith as those had: but yet we must come to the same faith, because we have the same GOD, the same covenant and promises, the same spirit is given unto us which believe, Saint Paul in the 4. chap. the Ephesians saith: there is one God, one faith, one baptism. If there be but one, than ours must be the same that theirs was.  Ath. 
Yea, but for all that it is presumption for men to say they know they shallbe saved.  Zealot. 
I see that popish dung doth stick still between your teeth, when they teach men that it is presumption to be out of doubt.  Ath. 
What tell ye me of the Pope, I care not for him, I would both he and his Dung, were buried in the Dunghill.  Zealot. 
I know there be many which care not for the Pope, but yet believe much of his doctrine: they be those which we call Atheists, of no religion, but look whatsoever any prince doth set forth, that they will profess.  Ath. 
I think that is good, ought not we for to obey our Princes, and would ye have us to take upon us for to be wiser than they and their Counsellors?  Zealot. 
I did know ye were an Atheist, setting up men in the place of God worse than a Turk.  Ath. 
Wherefore do ye say so?  Zealot. 
Tell me this, are we for to obey men if they command that which is contrary to that which God commandeth?  Ath. 
I think not so.  Zealot. 
Is there any more than one truth, or one religion, which is the right, and that which God commandeth?  Ath. 
There can be but one truth, that is certain.  Zealot. 
Then when one Prince commandeth one religion, another ariseth afterward and commandeth the contrary: Will ye without difference obey them both? is not this for to deny God? is not this for to be worse than a Turk?  Ath. 
I am sure ye will not deny, but that we must obey.  Zealot. 
He which doth disobey the Prince, doth disobey GOD, unto his damnation, where the prince setteth forth and maintaineth God's word. But if there be a prince which maketh laws against the laws of God, we must obey GOD rather than men. But there are many as I said before which in any Prince's days will speak thus, if religion should turn (say they) as God forbidden it should, but if it do, it is our parts to be obedient. Are not these Atheists, have they not denied GOD, when they set men in his place? And look no higher but what men command. But ye have drawn me away again from the matter we were in hand with, where ye said it is presumption for a man to say he knoweth he shallbe saved: I may ask ye a question I know ye will answer very boldly.  Ath. 
I know no cause why I should not answer boldly.  Zealot. 
Ye say true, for blind bayard is the boldest horse in the cart, although he be almost drowned in one slow yet he will not stick at another, he will through when all the rest will strain courtesy. But let us come to the matter whether is it greater presumption for to believe that God is true, or for to doubt of the certainty of his promise? & whether doth that man honour GOD most which giveth credit to his word, or he which doubteth whether he will perform the same?  Ath. 
It must needs be granted that he which believeth God of his word doth well, and he that doth not doth evil.  Zealot. 
Ye say true, for if a Prince make an offer unto some man, whom he favoureth, and he should make answer, I doubt of it, I scarce believe the performance of your promise: would not the Prince think himself greatly dishonoured to have it doubted, whether he be a man of his word? If he should swear for the performance of his promise, & the party not trust him, he would never put that up, or bear such an injury. Then it must needs follow that when God hath bound himself both by promise and by oath, as it is said Heb. cap. 6. ver. 17. How great presumption is it not for to believe him? it is all one as too think God may lie, or that he may be forsworn, which is horrible blasphemy.  Ath. 
I grant this is true, if God should tell any man that he should be saved, if he did not then believe him. But where is that man which can say God ever told him so? Doth he tell any one man so?  Zealot. 
Yea that he doth, for that which he sendeth unto all in general, he sendeth unto every one in particular: for is it not all one, if a man be condemned for treason, to have his pardon sent him being but one man alone, or having a great sort more condemned unto death with him, a general pardon is sent fo● them all▪  Ath. 
That is all one, for he hath his part in it.  Zealot. 
Even so is it between God and us, we were all condemned, he hath sent a general pardon to as many as believe the same, that whosoever trusteth in Christ he shallbe saved. God therefore hath told some men, that is, such as believe that they shallbe saved, and such as doubt of his promise and his oath they shallbe damned. Therefore is it all one in those which believe, as if he had sent a particular message unto them.  Ath. 
I never heard so much in all my life before.  Zealot. 
I believe so▪ For S. R. can no great skill in this gear: he can whip over a new pair of cards nimbly, and tyrle a die: but he should be the messenger of the Lord of hosts, even as the Prophet saith, his lips▪ should keep knowledge, and men should inquire at his mouth, he▪ should open all the Counsel of God unto the people, and not let them run headlong as they do unto destruction. He should instruct them in all the doctrine of faith, and repentance, & so guide them in the fear of God.  Ath. 
All men cannot do alike, we must accept their good will, every man cannot be a Preacher.  Zealot. 
Because ye care not for seeking after eternal life, ye are content to accept of nothing: and because ye love your lusts, and hate to be reformed, ye abhor the use of preaching, and as poor a man as ye are, ye would not for xl. shillings ye had a Preacher among you.  Ath. 
ye ever take me at the worst, I allow preaching▪ it is good now and then, but some can keep no measure nor tell when they have done: Again they be over hot and severe, and preach damnation to the people. Likewise they meddle with such matters as they need not, as Election and Predestination, what should such matters be spoken of among the people, they make men worse?  Zealot. 
I think the Devil is the cunningest schoolmaster in the world. Other schoolmasters cannot bring gross heads and dullards to any pass, but content themselves with the finer wits, for to train them up in learning: but a man can almost light upon none of his scholars, be they never such blockheads, but they have their lesson at their finger's ends.  Ath. 
I thank ye Sir for your good word: But I never learned it of the Devil, nor never was any of his scholars: I trust I have as little to do with him as you or any other.  Zealot. 
Where did ye learn it then, if not of the Devil?  Ath. 
I have heard honest men speak it, and some Preachers preach it.  Zealot. 
Then I perceive ye learned it not of the Devil himself, but at the mouth of some of his Ushers.  Ath. 
Wherefore do y●e call them the devils Ushers? the have skill in the word of God, and aught to know what they say.  Zealot. 
I call them so because they teach the precepts of the Devil. And although they have some knowledge in the word, yet they never learned these things which you speak out of the word.  Ath. 
Did the Devil teach them berause they have it not in God's word?  Zealot. 
It is the doctrine of the Devil, because it is against God's word. For GOD never teacheth▪ men those things which are contrary to the doctrine which he hath set down in his word.  Ath. 
I think ye will hardly pro●●●▪ these things for too be against God's word.  Zealot. 
I would you could as easily prove yourself to be a good man: for than we should soon agree.  Ath. 
You are not for to judge of me no more than I am for to judge of you: but there be many now a days which will take upon them for to judge men: they do not learn that out of God's word, I am sure.  Zealot. 
If I see a man drunken, or hear him swear or rail and such like, and say, he is a naughty man, do I judge: shall I account him a good man, when I see he is nought?  Ath. 
When a man doth see those naughty vices, he may boldly say that such men are nought.  Zealot. 
In like manner when a man heareth one which holdeth evil and abominable opinions against the truth, he may as boldly say he is nought: because they have given judgement of themselves, and have showed what they are. Nay they be such as you which take upon ye for to judge: for let a man be more careful than yourselves for to serve GOD: and by and by you will enter into the secrets of his heart, which God only doth know, and ye will not stick for to pronounce that he is an hypocrite. In the mean time, let a man tell you that ye are wicked, when he doth see your wickedness, ye answer, ye ought not to judge: but I will come for to prove that the things which ye speak against preaching, are very devilish and wicked. Ye said thus, I allow preaching, it is good now and then, but some can keep no measure, nor will never have done.  Ath. 
I said so in deed, I will not deny my word, and I think so still. For a man may have overmuch of any thing, & enough is as good as a feast.  Zealot. 
A very little is enough for you, if the Preacher do pass his hour but a little, your buttokes begin for to ache, and ye wish in your heart that the Pulpit would fall.  Ath. 
Ye may guess twice before ye guess so right.  Zealot. 
Nay I can guess somewhat near in such a man as ye are: but I pray ye did ye never sit at Cards all night?  Ath. 
Yes that I have, and thought it but a short night too.  Zealot. 
The cause why ye think an hour so long at a Sermon, & a whole night so short at Cards, is, that ye delight in the one and care not for the other: the carding is joined with much sin and service of the Devil, the other is for to bring us unto the knowledge and fear of GOD: Mark now how much by your own confession ye love the Devil more than GOD? for him do ye love most, whom ye delight to serve most.  Ath. 
Can we not serve God without so much preaching? I see they are never the better which run most after sermons, they talk much, but I would have them leave talking and fall to doing, we see no doing but men are still even as evil as before.  Zealot. 
Can your servant serve you unless he know your will?  Ath. 
No that he cannot.  Zealot. 
No more can you serve GOD without the knowledge of his will, and as for the rest of your speech, when ye cry out against preaching of God's word, that it maketh men never the better, and ye would have them leave talking, and fall to doing: I confess there be a number which are counterfeit professors which live not according to the Gospel, and most commonly they be such, as have but a little smack of the Gospel, and yet think they know much, because they want the means, having the word either seldom or loosely preached. But I will confute your vanity another way in this point, tell me, are not these your sayings? where the word is sincerely preached▪ if any seek to frame their lives after the same, when they do either by word reprove your evil ways, or by deed refuse your lewd manners: These men are full of the Spirit, these are precise fellows, these are holy Saints, these think themselves Gods fellows: these think themselves better than all other men.  Ath. 
We say so in deed, there is good cause why.  Zealot. 
Then I pray ye tell me how these two things can hang together, when ye say there is no amendment of life, and yet ye complain that they be over full of the spirit, over precise, and such like. May not every man see, that ye pronounce things directly contrary the one to the other? that there is no amendment, and yet in effect, ye say, they amend over▪ fast.  Ath. 
We do not say that any do amend over fast.  Zealot. 
When ye say they are over holy, and what should men be so curious and full of the spirit, what is this but to say, that they amend over fast? Is not this to amend when men by due instruction out of God's word come to repentance of their former vices? and have a care to keep themselves from the spots of the rotten flesh and filthy world. Do not you and such as you are after a sort blaspheme, when ye reproach men with the spirit? Is it a shame for a man now a days for to have any thing to do with the spirit of God? While a man doth walk after the flesh in the lusts of uncleanness, he is an honest man: But so soon as he is endued with any grace, ye wonder at him as crows do at an owl, ye are ready to flout and mock him out of his skin. And as if the spirit of GOD were a spirit of dishonour and shame, ye mock men with him. We may wonder at the long patience of GOD, which hath thus many years suffered himself to be dishonoured, his spirit reviled, his word despised, and hath not been revenged, but no doubt the longer he hath ●aried, the heavier will the stroke be.  Ath. 
Men are men, what should they make themselves more holy than they be?  Zealot. 
If ye mean one way ye say right, for it is a naughty vice for men to seem to be holy when they are not, or to seem to be more holy than they be: but if ye mean another way (as I think ye do) that because men are sinful by nature, why should they seek for to be better, then do ye speak very wickedly. For God calleth men to repentance, to turn from their evil ways: God guideth his servants at all times with his spirit, therefore S. paul saith Rom. 8. There Is no condemnation now to those which are in Christ jesus, which walk not after the flesh, but after the spirit. And again in the same chapter, As many as are led by the spirit of God, are the sons of God. He saith that if we live after the flesh, we shall die: in other places he doth show, which are the works of the spirit, and which are the works of the flesh: And you like blasphemous wretches allow those which walk after the flesh, and condemn those which are led by the spirit.  Ath. 
Are none endued with God's Spirit, but such as run to hear preaching?  Zealot 
Whosoever hath the spirit of God, can not but delight in the word of God, which the same spirit hath uttered: The Lord saith, he which is of God, heareth God's word: The happy man is he (as we have in the 1. Psalm) which hath his delight in the law of the Lord, and which doth meditate in the same day and night? We have in the psalm 112. Blessed is the man which feareth the Lord, he hath great delight in his commandments.  
Moreover, the spirit of GOD doth not guide men without the word. And therefore it is said Psalm 119. Thy word is a lantern unto my feet, and a light unto my paths. S Peter saith, I. Epist. 1. He hath beegotten us again not of mortal but of immortal seed, which he affirmeth to be the word of God that endureth for ever. Likewise S. james saith cap. 1. of his own good will begat he us, by the word of truth. Seeing therefore that the holy Ghost doth guide men by the word, it followeth that all those which set light by the word, are led, not with the spirit of God, but with the spirit of the Devil. I might allege a number of testimonies of Scripture to prove that such as you which make so small account of the sacred word of God, as there be a number, yea the greatest number which do not set so much by it as they do by an old shoe, are despicers of God, worse than brute beasts.  Ath. 
Cannot men be lead by God's spirit and serve God, unless they know the Scriptures▪ GOD forbid that all those should be awry which are not learned: is it not enough for plain country men, plough men, tailors, and such other, for to have their ten commandments, the lords prayer, and the belief: I think these may suffice us, what should we meddle further: I know men which are no scripture men, which serve GOD as well as the best of them all. Will ye condemn such?  Zealot. 
I said before that men can not be lead by God's spirit, and refuse to know the Scriptures: Neither can they truly serve him until such time as they know how for to serve him: for GOD teacheth how he will be served, and he teacheth only in his word: his will is that we shall learn to know him by his word. And therefore he hath appointed the ministery of the word to continue for ever in his Church, that by it men may be built up in Christ, as ye may read Ephe. 4. For this cause S. Paul▪ exhorteth Tymothie to be instant in teaching in season & out of season: he traveled himself night and day, he maketh a very fer●e●● prayer to God continually for the Collossians, that they might be fulfilled with the knowledge of his will, in all wisdom and spiritual understanding.  ver. 9 For this cause he exhorteth the Christians to be children in malice, but not to be children in understanding. The holy Ghost doth sharply reprove the Hebrews as we may see, in the latter end of the 5. chap. of that Epistle: because they were yet children to be taught, when for the time they should have been teachers. Again there is a notable sentence in the beginning of the second chap. of the proverbs, where a man may plainly prove, that none can come to the fear of god, but such as do earnestly endeavour for to know God. The words be these. My son, if thou receive my words, & hide my commandments with thee, to incline thine ears to wisdom, and to bow thy heart to understanding: if thou call for understanding, and utter thy voice for knowledge: if thou seek her as silver, and dig for her as for hid treasures: Then shalt thou understand the fear of the Lord and find the knowledge of God. If a man do not receive the word and commandements of God uttered by his Ministers, if he do not keep and lay them up, if he do not cry and call upon God for understanding, if he do not incline his ears & bend his heart thereto, if he do not search and dig after her as men do for treasures: he shall not come to the knowledge of the fear of God.  Ath. 
All men cannot come to these things which you speak of.  Zealot. 
All men which will please GOD must come thus far, that can say with the Prophet David in the 119. Psalm. I have hidden thy word in my heart▪ that I might not sin against thee. Also in the same place when he hath asked the question. Wherewithal a young man shall cleanse his ways, he answereth, by taking heed there to according to thy word: where by it is most evident, that all those are unpure in their ways, and sin grievously against God, which have not laid up his word in their hearts, nor cleansed their ways by the same.  
But let us come to some other of your sayings, which I am grieved for to hear.  Ath. 
Ye need not to be grieved, for I do not hurt ye.  Zealot. 
I can not but be grieved to see your gross and palpable blindness: and I am the more grieved when I remember that many which are otherwise very wise men use much your doltish sayings, and think they speak very wisely. They say what should unlearned men meddle further then to say their ten commandments, the Lords prayer, and the articles of the faith. And you are of the same mind.  Ath. 
I trust to do as well with these, as other with all their learning.  Zealot. 
Do ye think that ye shall do well even because ye can say them: although ye do not understand them?  Ath. 
Nay if a man say them, and do not understand them, he is little the better. I know not why I should not understand them, so long as God hath given me my five wits: I am no child, nor I am no fool.  Zealot. 
In deed he that hath one good wit, is no fool, much less are you which have five: you must needs know all and more: For I think ye mean, that ye are able by reason to understand those things.  Ath. 
I trust I understand by that reason which God hath given me, so much as is sufficient: I can tell when I do well, and I can tell when I do evil.  Zealot. 
I perceive you are a fire will man, one of those which think by natural understanding too conceive the mysteries of GOD: And ye do in deed understand so much as is sufficient: not for to save ye, but as S. Paul saith Rom. 1. to make ye without excuse: & so to condemn ye. You know some sins: and likewise ye can tell some things which are good, but ye can never tell any thing which ye have done that is good.  Ath. 
I trust GOD will be more favourable than you are: and that he will not forget the good deeds which I have done.  Zealot. 
A very little box I warrant you will hold all your deeds, if ye have no more old deeds than you have good deeds.  Ath. 
Are not these good deeds, when a man doth give to the poor, and is ready to do his neighbour a good turn? when a man doth live honestly, serve God, and think no man any harm.  Zealot. 
Now ye speak of cost: now ye are hit into your right vain again, even where ye would be, to boast of those things which ye have not: for none of all those or such like are good in you, because they do not proceed of faith: for S. Paul saith Rom. 14. ver. 23. Whatsoever is not of faith is sin.  Ath. 
How can ye prove that mine are not of faith?  Zealot. 
Faith is by hearing, and hearing by the word Rom. 10. 17. where a man despiseth the word, there can be no faith: because faith is grounded upon the word, and doth not believe things conttarye unto the word. Moreover, they be not your five wits, (as you term them) which can make ye able for to understand the mysteries of God's word. For they cannot be understood as Saint Paul teacheth. 1. Corinth. 2. 11. Unless God reveal them by his spirit: for even the wicked which seem to know them, do not know them aright. But let us come for to see how well ye do understand the ten commandments. Do ye not look to come to heaven, by doing of them?  Ath. 
I do them as nigh as God will give me grace, I trust God will not require more at my hands then I am able for to do: I am as he made me? if he had made me able for to do better I should do more.  Zealot. 
Now ye are in a deep piece of divinity, ye think this is so equal which ye utter now, that all the Doctors in the world are not able for to controllye. Ye say ye do what ye can, more God cannot require at your hands: you mean as if one should make this comparison: a father can require no more of his child then his strength will serve, a Prince can command his subject no impossible thing: if a father should whip his child for not doing that which he is not able, it were cruelty: if a Prince should put a subject to death for not doing his commandment in a matter uponssible, it were tyranny: the father will say. My child did his good will I can ask no more: The Prince will say he hath done that which a man might, and further I cannot require. Likewise you think GOD should deal straightly with ye, if he should condemn ye for breaking the Law, which ye are not able to observe: & that he cannot look for more at your hands then he hath made ye able to perform.  Ath. 
I mean so in deed, flesh is frail. we cannot do all things.  Zealot. 
I pray ye tell me, do ye think any shall go to hell and be damned?  Ath. 
The Scripture saith there shall, doth it not?  Zealot. 
Wherefore do ye think they shallbe damned?  Ath. 
For breaking Gods commandments.  Zealot. 
Are they able for too keep them?  Ath. 
No man is able for to keep them.  Zealot. 
Shall they then be damned for ever in hell fire, for breaking those laws which they were not able to keep?  Ath. 
Not if they had done their good will: For than they could not be blamed.  Zealot. 
How the Devil hath muffled you too keep ye from seeing the danger of eternal damnation which ye are in: have ye never heard that which GOD saith by Moses, which S. Paul citeth in the 3. Chap. to the Galath. Cursed is every one which abideth not in all things which are written in the book of the law for to do them: by which ye may see that God with his own mouth doth lay his curse (which is damnation) upon every one which doth break never so little of the law.  Ath. 
GOD is merciful, he is not so senere as you would make him for to be.  Zealot. 
Do ye not think that he is a just and a true God?  Ath. 
I must needs think so.  Zealot. 
Do ye think that when he hath uttered his justice, that he can by his mercy go from it; and so be sound un true? Nay there be many of ye which in all things cry God is merciful, GOD is merciful, which never consider with what conditions GOD hath promised mercy, neither how it may stand with his justice and truth: ye think GOD offereth mercy without exception.  Ath. 
If God be not merciful we are but in an evil case.  Zealot. 
He is a most merciful and gracious God, but yet not unto any, but such as he hath promised mercy. How many thousandd there be, which are carried headlong to hell with this error, which not knowing the justice and truth of GOD, do bless themselves where God hath accursed them. For these things which you have now uttered, are even of the principal reasons which Satan doth seduce men withal; and hold them from the truth. They think thus, I do what I can, God hath made me able to do no better, God is merciful, they know not this, that God made us able in our first creation to keep and obey his will wholly, and that although we can now keep no part of it, yet he may justly accurse and condemn us unto eternal fire, for transgressing any part of it: ye are not as he made ye, and therefore ye deceive yourself when ye think that he requireth no more at your hands, than ye are now able for to do. Ye deceive yourself, when ye think that GOD can be merciful unto ye, and you live without repentance.  Ath. 
You would make a man despair, if ye would put him out of hope in the mercy of God.  Zealot. 
I would not bring ye out of hope in the mercy of God, but I would bring ye ou● of your vain hope, which is not that which will save ye, but doth harden and blind ye unto damnation.  Ath. 
How can a man's hope and faith high God, ha●●en and blind him unto damnation? Now a days there is nothing among many of ye but damnation, damnation. It is well that God hath not given you power for to condemn 〈…〉.  Zealot. 
If it were a true faith, it must needs 〈…〉 them, but being a faith which is blind, it blindeth those which have it, and hard ●●●h then ●in their sins, and keepeth them from the seeking after the knowledge of God's will, and stayeth them from returning home unto God by true repentance, because it breadeth this in the hearts of men, to think and to say, we are well-enough, we 〈…〉 God● 〈…〉, we believe as well as the best of them all: when as if they were rid out of this notable snare of the. devil, and brought for to see the wrath of GOD bend against them, they would then be glad with fear and trembling to seek after the Lord in his word, and to be afraid to commit those things which might displease him. Where as now a man may● cry until he rend▪ his throat ag 〈…〉 t●●ir contempt of the lords word, and against their fowl sins, before he i● an move them at all: and why? because the devil hath gotten them within this fortress: GOD is merciful, God is merciful. And for your other foolish words, that there is now nothing but damnation damnation: Do ye think that men are ever, the sooner cast into damnation; because they are told of the great danger thereof?  Ath. 
I pray ye● let me see what good can come thereof.  Zealot. 
If I should mee●e ye by the way and perceive that ye were going into the way where ye should light among thieves, which would murder ye: which were most profitable for you, if I should tell ye, thus, ye be well, ye be well, or to show ye that ye be in danger of your life, if ye pass that way?  Ath. 
That were a wicked part for to let a man go where he should lose his life and not for to tell him.  Zealot. 
Wherefore do ye not see then that those which do show ye the danger of damnation do it for your profit, as well as they which teach ye to avoid some outward danger. If a man tell ye thus, go not that way, ye will be rob, ye will be killed, doth it follow that he will rob or kill ye? because ye say, men now utter damnation▪ and that it is well they have not power too condemn men. And know this for certainty, that if God in his word do threaten damnation, and the preacher do not show it to the people, and teach them how to avoid the same, their blood shall be required at his hand. But let us come back again to the former matter to see how well ye understand your x commandments. I would know this of ye, whether it be good for men to know the law, seeing it doth nothing but curse and condemn us: if there were no law, there could be no sin. I speak both of the law of nature, and of the law written, and if there were no sin, there could be no condemnation: For this cause the law is called the ministery of death and condemnation, and it is called the letter which killeth 2. Corinth. 3. Seeing it doth work all this, what profit can it bring for to know it, or why should it be preached?  Ath. 
I pray ye tell me you, for I am unlearned, and you are learned. If it be as you say, I think it were good not to preach it: if it do condemn us.  Zealot. 
What a shame is it that a man of your age should have so little skill, as not to know to what purpose the law serveth, It is a token ye understand your x. commandments well. I will tell ye, when a man knoweeth the law, it doth bring him to see that he is altogether corrupted with sin, both in body and soul, that he is under▪ Gods heavy indignation and 〈…〉▪ and that in himself there is no help at all, it casteth him into fear and terror of God's judgements, and so enforceth him to seek for remedy in Christ, whom before he did not greatly seek after▪ For look how a man which doth not think himself sick nor in danger of sickness careth not for a Physician: so he which doth not know his damnable estate by the law, careth not for Christ: This is the cause why Christ sayeth: The whole need not the Physician, but the sick, I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance▪ Therefore to such as have wounded consciences, the Gospel is sweet and comfortable; and Christ in the latter end of the eleventh Chapter of S. Matthew, calleth such unto him, saying: Come unto me all ye which travel and be heavy laden, and I will refresh ye. But such as have no feeling of their sins, or which are blinded and hardened, ye shall perceive small joy and delight in them for to hear the word preached: they had rather be at bearbaiting.  Ath. 
Ye say well, I would I could remember your words.  Zealot. 
There be many which will seem to be desirous for to learn, but a man shall see, they continue even as careless as before: But I will go on with this matter. The Scripture saith, that a sorrowful spirit is a sacrifice to God: and that God doth not despise the humble and contrite heart: But men are afraid to be brought to the knowledge and feeling of their sins for fear as they say, lest they should be driven into despair: as though that were a safe protection for them for a time to▪ be in a senseless security: and as though they were in the better case, because they make no conscience of their sins. Whereas indeed those which are pricked and wounded with their sins, are in the way to repentance, when the other are far off.  Ath. 
I could like your wor●es the better, but that ye would have men not to trust to their faith: is it not good to believe well?  Zealot. 
There is nothing good in men, unless they believe well: and we can not trust too much unto saith: but you do not understand what faith is. Tell me this, doth faith believe according as God setteth down, and speaketh in his word, or doth it believe contrary to that which God uttereth?  Ath. 
It doth not believe contrary too that which God uttereth.  Zealot. 
Let us see then, when God setteth down and showeth which are the works of the flesh, and threateneth damnation unto all those which walk in them: when God setteth down that the despisers of his word shallbe condemned: and yet men which are defiled with the filthiness of the flesh, and walk after their corrupt lusts do boldly brag that they believe to be saved: & setting nought by Gods▪ word, say they trust in God: is this faith? God affirmeth one thing, and yet they believe the contrary: but see the blindness of men now a days, when they hear vain and brutish men boast of their faith, ye do well say they, to have a good belief, when as in deed it is no more but a proud presumption, wherewith God is highly displeased, because by it they would make him a Lyar. When the son of man cometh, shall he find faith in earth? If this be faith, he shall find great plenty of it every where. For the Idolater, the swearer, the drunkard, the proud, the Adulterer, are as full of faith as they can be thrust. For every one of these doth brag that he hath as good a faith to God as he which is the most holy of all.  Ath. 
These may repent and be saved, or else God for bid.  Zealot. 
I do not speak what God is able to do in calling as he doth call some such unto repentance: but what they have in them presently. But I will see a little further how great skill you have in the law▪ of God, because ye need so little preaching▪ What say ye unto the second commandment, is it lawful for a man to worship idol●?  Ath. 
I thank God I do not worship any, for that is ●●atly forbidden.  Zealot. 
What say ye for the making of any image or picture of god, do ye think that is 〈…〉▪  Ath. 
For making it is no matter▪ so that a man have no confidence in them.  Zealot. 
How do ye then understand the words of the commandment, which say, Thou sha●● not make to thyself any graven image, etc.  Ath. 
He●●aneth that we should not make any gra●en Image 〈…〉 worship it.  Zealot. 
That is your own addition▪ for there is no such exception expressed, neither can the order of the commandment bear it: for he doth not say, Thou shalt not make to the intent to worship, but thou shalt neither make not worship.  Ath. 
If ye take it so, then why are painter allowed to make any picture▪ how is it lawful to have▪ the image of the Prince in coin?  Zealot. 
I will show ye your error, you do not understand that the law was divided into two Tables and that in the first Table, which hath 4. commandments, there is nothing commanded or forbidden, but that which respecteth immediately the worship and honour of God, he meddleth not with any civil or politic matter▪ he doth absolutely forbid to make as I may 〈…〉 it any divine image, any similitude for to represent God, or to be like him: because as the scripture showeth, there can no likeness or similitude be made of God. For he ●● spirit of glory▪ infinite, incomprehensible, Which dwelleth in light, which none can come unto: and therefore ye may read in the Epistle to the Rom. cap. 1. how horrible a sin it was to set up any image or likeness of God: therefore the pictures of the trinity and such like are very abominable. But to let this pass, what say ye for the worshipping of them: whether is it idolatry, or not, if a man mean to worship God by the image, and not the image itself?  Ath. 
How can that be idolatry▪ when a man 〈…〉 worship none but God, he knoweth that the image cannot help him.  Zealot. 
Then your meaning is, that, unless a man do either worship the very image itself▪ or else some false God in the image that it is no idolatry?  Ath. 
I see no reason to the contrary: and I thank GOD I never was so ●o● lis●● as to take a block or a stone for to be God.  Zealot. 
Then ye think yourself cle●t● in this commandment, ye were never, any idolater: ye never kneeled or played 〈…〉 any idol?  Ath. 
I have kneeled before them▪ and prayed before them, but I never took them to be God, neither did I pray unto any▪ save unto the Lord God. I trust God will 〈…〉 charge me to b●e an idolater.  Zealot. 
All you Atheists which have no knowledge of God, are crammed as full of popish dross as ye can hold, saving that ye will not abide by it, but go with the laws of princes, afraid to lose the world▪ because ye have made the world your God.  Ath. 
I defy popery as much as the best of ye all.  Zealot. 
Even as much as ye defy the devil, whom ye serve daily. For ye use popish reasons to excuse your falling from God by Idolatry, and whereby a man may easily see that you ●re ready unto it again if time served.  Ath. 
I see I must let ye alone to judge what ye lust.  Zealot. 
Nay ye use the very popish reasons: whereby they would prove when we charge them with the breach of this commandment, that they do not commit Idolatry: for say they, when the Scripture doth condemn that sin, it is meant of such as worship feigned Gods, as the heathen men did, or such as do worship the image itself, and take it for to be God. But I will deal with ye by God's word. What do y●e suppose of the children of Israel, when they came to Aaron, to have him make them Gods to go before them, when Moses tarried so long in the mount: did they commit this great sin of Idolatry?  Ath. 
They did commit idolatry, and the book saith they were destroyed, a great number of them.  Zealot. 
What? was their intent to worship any besides the true God?  Ath. 
That it was, for they desired Aaron for to make them Gods.  Zealot. 
What think ye they took Aaron for to be, a man, or a God?  Ath. 
That is a question in deed: how could they think him to be a God?  Zealot. 
Did they think that Aaron being but a man had power for to make a God?  Ath. 
If they thought so, they were but fools.  Zealot. 
And if you think they thought so, ye shall prove no great wise man. For which way can a man persuade any, that a man can make a God? Or could they become more brutish than a calf, for to believe that the car●●inges of gold turned into the similitude of a calf, were now become GOD? No my friend it is very plain, that they meant no more but an image of God and that which should represent God, and put them in mind of him ye must not think they were so foolish, although they were very foolish as the holy Ghost in one psal. chargeth them, that they turned their glory into the similitude of a calf which eateth hay: This than is plain enough, that they, meant not for to worship the golden calf itself, but God in the Calf. Let us see then, did they mean for to worship any other by the calf, besides the true God?  Ath. 
It seemeth they did, or else why should they say Gods, for there is but one God.  Zealot. 
Now ye are light upon a very poor shift: for we may as well say: This is thy God O Israel, or make us a God to go before us. For the Scripture itself, in the Hebrew tongue, although it teach that there is but one God, yet speaketh of him in the plural number, and saith Gods, for excellency or dignities sake, as we see Princes here in the world when any of them speaketh, he doth not say, I, but we, not my person, but our person. For the phrase of the Scripture, I might allege divers places, but you cannot understand, but in your own tongue● nevertheless I will cite one it is in the Pla●● Elohim Shophetim Hu: God is the iudge● but the words are Gods, he is judge.  Ath. 
Can you prove that they meant to worship none but the true God?  Zealot. 
It is easy to be proved, both by the words of the people themselves, when they say, these be thy Gods O Israel, which brought thee out of the land of Egypt: they meant not to change their GOD which brought them out from Pharaoh, and led them through the red Sea: neither did they think that the calf which Aaron had made, was he which divided the Sea, and drowned Pharaoh with his host, but they took it for an image of that God, and not of any feigned God, and also by the words of Aaron, when he saith. To morrow shallbe a feast to jehovah, which name was never given to any, but to the God of heaven, at the least in those days, the God of Israel had that name peculiar unto himself. Then ye may see, they worshipped not the Idol itself, but God in the Idol, they meant not to worship any false God, but the God of heaven, which had delivered them, & yet they did commit foul Idolatry and fell from God, in so much that God was exceeding wrath with them. Likewise in popery ye fell from God when ye bowed unto images.  Ath. 
I hope not, because I did not as they did, they put a devotion in it, I meant no such thing, but too be obedient too a law.  Zealot. 
Then your meaning is, that you kept your heart and conscience to God, and went with your body but for fashion?  Ath. 
So long as I did keep my conscience and heart to God, I trust I did well enough.  Zealot. 
Then you think God requireth not to be worshipped but with your soul, & that you may serve the Devil with your body. Ye think also that God doth not require the outward confession of the mouth, although it should be with loss of life.  Ath. 
Ye do not hear me say, that we may worship the Devil with our bodies.  Zealot. 
You might hear yourself say so, but that ye say ye know not what: for herein ye are ignorant, that the worship of images is the worship of Devils. But I know there be many trim wise heads, which excuse the matter & clear themselves this way, that they make no devotion of the image, or any other thing in the service of the Pope, their conscience is free to GOD, they serve and fear him▪ what doth it hu●e them, although they come outwardly with their body, unto the other: what should they endanger themselves in so small a matter? But will ye hear me what I can say out of God's word against you, and such fellows?  Ath. 
I will hear you gladly. I am not so wilful, as not to hear.  Zealot. 
There were amongst the Corinthians, divers Christians which were persuaded that it was a matter indifferent to go to the Idol temple, and there to sit at the feast with the infidels▪ which they made in honour of the Idol, and to ●ate of the meat which had been ●l●●● in sacrifice unto the Idol: They excused the exact in this wise, that they had knowledge, they understood well that the Idol was nor GOD, they went not of any devotion at all, as touching the worship and service which the heathen men did use, but for friendship and neighbourhood sake ●●● they would not refuse to eat with such as were th●●● kinsfolks or acquaintance. Now although S. Paul doth mildly 〈…〉 with them, and answereth their reasons in the ● and ●. chapter: yet in the 10. Chap. hec dealeth very roughly with them, setting before them the terrible example of God's wrath upon Idolaters, and showeth plainly, that they were partakers of the table of devils, and that they drank of the cup of devils, howsoever they thought they kept themselves and their consciences free and unpolluted. Even so I conclude, that these worldlings which use this shift, now little devotion soever they have, yet they have no less than the Corinthians had in the Idol feast, therefore, when S. Paul affirmeth, that they committed idolatry, it must needs follow that these do much more.  Ath. 
Well, if the matter be heard, that it be an offence, I trust God will forgive us.  Zealot. 
It is your manner although a sin be never so foul, yet to make small account of it, but like a dog, that is wounded, ye think ye can by this means lick yourselves whole, if ye can but say, I hope GOD will forgive us.  Ath. 
If you say true, than all our forefathers should be condemned, because they did worship images. I doubt not but God was as merciful unto them, as he is unto men now: I think they pleased GOD better than we do now: let us not stand so much in our own light.  Zealot. 
It is a marvelous thing for to see, how the Devil doth dazzle men's eyes, and how he doth bewitch them. These things which you utter, and such like, are even like a vail before your eyes, so that ye are not able for to have any sight into God's word. How gross and doltish soever the matter be, if ye can say thus, our forefathers did it, will ye condemn them, than all is safe enough. But see how ye are over seen, all our forefathers did not fall from God by idolatry, for even in the pride of the reign of Antichrist, there were some stood up against him, in divers countries. There were always some whom God lightened to see the abominations of the man of sin, & so to repent & take hold of Christ: & God who is always like himself received them to mercy. And doubtless God is more now displeased with such as do now wilfully kick and spurn against the truth, and seek for to quench the glorious light of the Gospel, than he was with them, from whom the word of God was taken away, and being blind, they were made for to believe every lie, and therefore now when God offereth his grace, and seeketh by his word to expel that gross darkness, it were good for such as you, not to stand in your own light, and obstinately to refuse the knowledge of God. Our forefathers had that great plague came upon them, which S. Paul did foretell. 2. These. 2. Namely, that there should be a falling away, that Antichrist should deceive the world, and bring them to damnation: for GOD (he saith) should send them strong delusion, even for to believe lies, because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved: and now when God offereth his word again, men do not joyfully and thankfully embrace it, and therefore God doth send them shepherds even after their hearts desire: not to feed them (for they cannot) but to fleece them for that they can skill off: not to be salt for to season them, but to be even like dung cast upon them for to corrupt them: not to give them light, seeing themselves are blind. The greatest number of you are as far from God, as they were even in the blindest time of Popery, and that is confessed by your own mouth, when ye say ye would follow our forefathers: For ye mean not those Forefathers which did know and woorshipp God aright, but those which were seduced, and fell from him by Idolatry. I am very loath for to question with ye any further in the commandements, ye are so exceeding blind in them. For I know that in our land, let all the people be numbered, and five parts of ye do understand so much in the commandments, Lords prayer, and articles of the faith, that it were a great shame for a godly man to have a child of x. years old for to know no more.  Ath. 
How can ye tell that? I think ye go beyond your book, have ye posed all?  Zealot. 
I go not so far beyond my book, as you think I do. And although I have not posed all, yet I have posed so many, that I know what the state of the most is. This I find that in the best and most religious towns generally, the greatest part have very little zeal. This I find, that where there is one of these towns which are forward, there be five which are not, because they want teaching. This further I know by experience, that those which are the willing ones, and as it were the daily hearers for a long time are very raw when they be examined. Then judge you what is in the rest, which are very seldom taught, or refuse for to be taught. And if this be not true, let me loose my hand. And yet there be idle bellies, which are not ashamed with open mouth to cry that less preaching would serve, and that there is knowledge enough among the people: when the poor people do not understand so much as the lords prayer: unless they would hold them still in popery, they can be no more ignorant.  Ath. 
I could like the better, if the preaching might be only upon the sabbath day: but now they run in the week days, and leave their business, & beggar themselves: they go to other towns also, which is a pity that it is suffered: it is a great disorder.  Zealot. 
He is said to be blessed, which hath his delight in the law of the Lord, & which doth meditate therein day & night. I confess that the sabbath day is the chief time to seek for knowledge. But that man which hath so little love to the word, that he cannot bestow one hour in a week for to hear it, and yet can bestow divers hours in vain talking, drinking and gaming, is but a dull scholar upon the Sabbath day: I warrant ye, if a man look well unto him, he shall find it hard to judge whether he or the seat he sat on, carried away most: & for leaving their business so far as they may conveniently, would ye have them forget the precept of our saviour christ, first seek the kingdom of God, & his righteousness, & then all these things shallbe cast upon you: The soul with you is less to be cared for, than the body: ye prefer this life before eternal life: & as for this, that men come for to be beggars by following sermons, that they sell their kine, & that they are feign to be gathered for in the Church: ye have a bowget full of these lies, and ye need but even a mill for to grind them. They are taught by the word preached, to follow their labours painfully, and the blessing of God is upon men's labours, which do seek him and the knowledge of his word: and although it sometime doth hinder them one hour, yet it saveth them and gaineth them many hours, which they were wont to bestow vainly.  Ath. 
I do not like this so evil as the other when they run from town to town so disorderly.  Zealot. 
I pray ye tell me if there were a dearth of corn, how far would ye go to fetch corn, rather than statue? I believe, as far as the sons of jacob, when they went out of the land of Chanaan into Egypt.  
At. I count him a fool, which will not go a great way of to buy his corn, rather than starve.  Zealot. 
He is a stark fool, which will not go a great way rather than starve his body: but he is not a fool which will not once step out at his door for to seek the everlasting food of his soul.  Ath. 
Those are not alike, we must needs seek for to live.  Zealot. 
Noah, you cannot see them for too be a like: you see well in things of this world, but for heavenly things, ye see nothing: but to come to the matter, it is great pity in deed, that there should be such disorder, as that men should run from town to town to hear sermons: Our Saviour Christ pitied them when they came into the wilderness for to hear him, because he saith, they were as sheep without a shepherd. But you and your mates are not grieved with the same pity: ye are as like a malicious dog as can ●ee, which lieth upon the hay, and will ear none, neither will suffer the Ox which would. Woe be unto ye Scribes and Pharisees, ye Hypocrites, ye shut up the kingdom of heaven before men, ye enter not in yourselves, neither do ye suffer those which would enter. Mat. 23, 14.  Ath. 
You say they go to seek food for their souls, and to learn for to know God: but they do it of vain glory.  Zealot. 
There be always some no doubt, which do not seek of a sincere mind but of vain glory, and do abuse their knowledge, and are vainly puffed up in themselves, with an opinion of those things which are not in them: but will you give sentence against all, because some are such: Is this a good argument? men give alms for vain glory, men come to the Church, and pray of vain glory: Therefore alms and prayer are to be left: for doubtless some do those things for vain glory, even as our Saviour Christ accuseth the Scribes and Pharisees.  Ath. 
But Christ biddeth us do those things. Now will ye prove that we are commanded to do this.  Zealot. 
I know no place which hath in plain words, Go unto other countries or towns for to hear preaching, and why: because the will of God is that they should have preachers come home unto them, and be appointed over them for to feed them. I might allege examples of good men which sought after Christ, whom he did not forbid. Do ye think when the Lord commandeth us to seek him so earnestly, and that in the mystery of his Gospel, that a few miles ought for to stop us. How far think ye men run for a little earthly substance? How far do they run on heaps, both men & women, unto feasts, may-games, dancings, plays, bearebating, and other such vanities?  Ath. 
Youth will be doing, ye must not blame them, they have time enough to be holy hereafter. I have had as great delight myself ere now in those things as one, but now I wax old.  Zealot. 
I was sure ye would allow this kind of running from town to town, this is no disorder at all: how many are there of ye, which cry out with open mouth, against such as seek after the word, and seek for to trouble & punish them for so doing, which once open your mouth against these foul abuses? Whereas ye say, youth will be doing, ye say true, and so will many aged likewise, but doth it follow therefore that they must be suffered to do the things which are evil? In that ye say, they have time enough to be holy hereafter, therein you show yourself to be a right worldling, a very epicure, an ignorant man: for thus your worldly Epicures do speak, youth will have their race, let them alone, what should young men and maidens do with the scriptures? clean contrary unto that which God speaketh by his Prophet. Wherewithal shall a young man cleanse his way? even by taking heed thereto according to thy word. Likewise by Solomon in the book of Ecclesiastes chap. 11. Remember thy creator in the days of thy youth. But now a days it is a principal point of divinity, that youth may walk after the lusts of the flesh, so long until through custom of sinning, they are so besotted and hardened in their wicked lusts, & their concupiscences are grown so strong, that there can no grace enter into them, & so it seemeth for to be with you, for I dare warrant, you are able to tell a long tale of your youth tricks.  Ath. 
Well, I am as I am, you cannot make me better, & I trust ye shall make me no worse. Ye speak as though none could be good but scripture men.  Zealot. 
None can be good but such as fear God, such as seek for to obey him: None fear God, which set light by his ordinances and cast them behind their backs: None can obey GOD, but such as do seek for to know and follow those precepts which he uttereth in his word. None are godly, but such as are cleansed, and guide their ways by the word. He which is of God heareth God's word.  Ath. 
If they be so good and godly, how cometh it to pass then, that there is so much debate among them? for I know towns myself, which are even divided one part against another, since they had a preacher, which were not so before. This they gain, that whereas before they loved together, now there is dissension sown among them.  Zealot. 
Now ye discharge your greatest ordinance: I trow ye have now paid it home: It is hard if Satan cannot with this engine overthrow and beat down Preaching. But I pray you tell me, can ye put fire and water together but they will rumble? Will ye have light and darkness for to agree as companions together?  Ath. 
What is this to the matter?  Zealot. 
Would ye have God and the Devil agree together? would ye have the godly and the wicked for to be at one? this ye must do, ye look where the fault is to be laid.  Ath. 
I think the fault must needs be laid upon the preaching, because they agreed before that came.  Zealot. 
If their agreement together before had been good, than no doubt the preaching that should break it, could not be good: for one good thing cannot destroy another. But the former peace was not in GOD, but in the flesh: neither was it so great as you would seem for to set it forth, because that the worldlings are always at strife, and one ready for to cut another's throat: but yet their hatred is so exceeding great against the Gospel, that in respect of the mind, which they carry towards the professors thereof, they seem among themselves to be at peace, and one to love and make much of another.  Ath. 
Where is the fault then for to be laid?  Zealot. 
Upon the wicked which fret and rage against the word, because it layeth open and discloseth their filthiness, and bewrayeth them. For the light (as S. Paul saith) doth manifest all things. They pretend other excuses, as though they hated the professors for some evil conditions: but this is very evident, a blind man may almost discern it, that so long as a man is void of religion, and maketh profession of no more than they; so long, although he be full, and swarm with great vices, he is an honest man, but let him follow the word, and be careful for to amend, than there is not a lewder fellow upon earth, divers flanders shall be raised, things shall be reckoned up, which he did seven years agone: and now they hate him like a dog. Light is come into the world, and men love darkness more than light, because their works be evil. Will ye charge Christ and his Gospel, because as he sayeth, he came not to send peace, but a sword, to set the father against the son? Math. 10. Or will ye lay the blame upon those which love the light? Will ye blame S. Paul and his preaching because there was stir and hurly burly almost wheresoever he came? Was he to be blamed, or the wicked infidels, which could not abide to have their sins reproved?  Ath. 
There be some places where they have grave and learned preachers, and yet there is no such contention in their parishes: I like that well.  Zealot. 
You like that well: so doth your master also.  Ath. 
What mean you by that? whom do ye call my master?  Zealot. 
Even the Devil, for he is content those preachers should ride upon his back, because he is sure they will not spur▪ gall him: they be very gentle riders. Do ye not think, that if they should set forth God's word as they ought, and spread the light: that all wicked men (of which their parish are full) would storm and fret against them? the Devil himself would fiske about, if they should spur him but a little. But they can tell a smooth tale in the pulpit, garnished with some merry story, for to make the people merry, or else some old rotten allegory: or some far fetched matter out of some great writers, that the people may be at their wit's end, and admit them. A man would think to see the people come out of the Church blowing, that they were fed as full as tickes; when they go home with empty bellies. This I dare warrant, if it be not so, let me lose both mine ears, that go thorough the parishes of these grave and learned divines, and except such as run to fetch their victuals other where, ye shall not find five among fivescore which are able to understand the necessary grounds and principles of religion: and yet the people will say they be excellent deep men: But I love not those▪ Welles which are so deep that a man can draw no water out of them.  Ath. 
I see you like better of young rash heads and troublesome fellows, than ye do of grave stayed men: for now a days there are a number which take upon them to preach, which in deed do but prattle: and for my part, I will believe none of them: but I will rather give credit to that which ancient learned men do speak.  Zealot. 
I do utterly mislike, that any rash head should have the office of preaching▪ which is a thing of so great dignity, as to be the mouth of God unto the people, to utter the counsels and mysteries of the Lord, and to teach them the way to salvation: and great dishonour to God and his gospel it● is, if there be many such, as you say there be: but if they be godly, learned, grave, discrete, and wise, and do faithfully and zealously▪ dispose the manifold mysteries of God, them the matter is not whether they be young or old: for the docttine which they do teach and expound, is not their own, but the doctrine of Christ, the authority is not of them, but of GOD which hath given it. But I know your meaning: you count all those to be ignorant, and to prattle, which do not preach according unto your humour▪ such as do sharply inu●igh against your vanities: and those which do not, they be learned and grave men, let us believe them: and so ye look not what God saith, but what men say: and surely those kind of grave men do great hurt: I mean such as carry a great show of learning in them, and scarce: any are the better for it.  Ath. 
And surely I think they do much good.  Zealot. 
You think they do much good: but I know they do very much hurt: the blind and unlearned Ministers are hurtful, those which are popish priests do hurt; they which follow evil vices, as drunken ministers, swearers, quarrelers, adulterers, gamesters, & such like do hurt, but yet these which you speak of, do more hurt: I will tell you how, where there is such an one as those above named, the people have no great opinion of them, for they can▪ easily say, alas our minister is not able nor meet for to teach us, and so they are willing to hear & to be informed by others: but those which have one of your profound clerk, the people so much hang upon him, that they will hear none other: This they say, our preacher is as profound a man as any of them all: if we were out of the way, he would tell us, if so much ●eaching were needful, would not he teach us? If such things were evil, would he use them? And so they conclude, that they care not for learning ought saving at his mouth, when as in deed he teacheth them little or nothing, peradventure he giveth them a cold collation once a month, and when a man shall take the proof of them, he shall find that they are no better than such as have a dumb I doll to their shepherd.  Ath. 
Is it not better for to have a sermon now and then, and to have it a learned sermon: then for to have many without learning? I think one such sermon doth more good than an hundredth of those flying sermons.  Zealot. 
I grant thus much, that the word of God is to be handled with great care, men are not to step forth and to speak rashly, and without sure and undoubted knowledge of the things which they utter.  
Moreover, there ought to be such learning and discretion, as shall be sufficient to open and to manifest the power and dignity of the word unto the consciences of the hearers: he must be able for to make plain the sense of the scriptures, and he must apply it to the hearers which doth preach. For to handle the holy mysteries of God unskilfully is a vice greatly to be condemned, & I think such, although they preach never so often, shall do but little good. But I pray you let me know which you count a learned sermon: and which ye call a flying sermon?  Ath. 
That is a learned sermon, when the Preacher doth lay open the matter learnedly.  Zealot. 
You mean when he is able to speak much Latin, and to allege all sorts of writers?  Ath. 
I count those learned fellows in deed, I will not give a button for those English Doctors, which can allege no more but out of Paul and Peter.  Zealot. 
It would be a notable learned Sermon then, if the Preacher should speak● all latin.  Ath. 
Then we which do not understand latin should be never the better.  Zealot. 
If so little could pleasure you, than no doubt a whole sermon would edify ye much. But such vain men as you. do show your vanity, when ye look more after those things which should feed your ears, then for to have your souls converted. Is that to be used which cannot edify at all, but serveth for a vain show, and disturbeth the mind and memory of the diligent hearer? But let this go, and let us see the other, for alleging of writers, in this matter ye have sundry grave men of your side, which count those Sermons learned, which are set forth with all sorts of authorities, and those which bring the bare word out of the Bible, they make but verbal Sermons: But doubtless they may show some gravity in their beard, for there is none in the matter.  Ath. 
Are they not thereby known for to be learned men, every Plough man now a days can allege out of Saint Paul.  Zealot 
They are thereby known for to be unskilful men, and such as are not rightly instructed in the doctrine of S. Paul. They make a great show of learning and yet want the knowledge of the dignity of god's word. When as they bring in the sayings of Plato, and Aristotle, as fellows and companions with the oracles of God uttered by his Prophets and Apostles, and as though there were greater and deeper matter in those, then in the Bible, whereas all the heavenly mysteries and counsels of God are uttered, they stick not to count that unlearned which is brought from thence: and great learning to be in the sayings of the other. For this cause they do also seek for to ga●●ish their sermons, and as it were for to set them with pearl, when as in effect they do nothing else, but as if a man should mingle lead with pure gold, and clay with precious oil. And because ye speak or learning▪ tell me what ye think, whether Saint Augustine or Saint Paul, was the better learned.  Ath. 
You should ask that question of such as are learned: would y●e have m●e tell y●e?  Zealot. 
Is not he which doth allege sentences out of Augustine, Ambrose, Jerome, and Cyprian, better learned than they which allege out of Moses, Esay▪ Peter, Paul, or john?  Ath. 
I told ye before that every man can allege out of these, & if I could ceade, and had a Bible, I could do it also: but to allege out of the other, none can do that, but such as are great clerk.  Zealot. 
Then it seemeth that they were better than Paul, and Peter, or Moses, or else why should they be esteemed to be better learned which do cite them?  Ath. 
If I might shoot my bolt▪ I think they were the l●arn●der, because their writings are so pronounce.  Zealot. 
I would you did think so alone, but in deed the people have been so deluded with such as would make a show of learning, that multitudes are of your mind▪ which bringeth in a vile and shameful abasing of the most holy and sacred Bible. But let me ask ye certain questions. Do ye not think that if the writings of those men were to be red in our tongue, that every man than could be able to allege out of them, as they do out of the Bible?  Ath. 
I think they might then be able.  Zealot. 
Do ye suppose those should by and by be esteemed for to be learned▪ which do then allege sayings out of them?  Ath. 
I s●e no cause why then they should not be counted so.  Zealot. 
Is he learned in the Bible, which can allege many sentences?  Ath. 
A man may speak much & know little.  Zealot. 
You might see likewise that men may allege sayings out of great Doctors, and yet themselves be great Daws: for he is learned whom God doth teach for to understand the heavenly mysteries uttered by the Prophets and Apostles▪ and in uttering them, doth follow the steps of Paul and the rest. The Doctors had all their true learning out of the Bible: for in it is se●●e forth that▪ wisdom which is above all.  Ath. 
The Scriptures are dark & hard, and● therefore men now do not understand them as the Doctors did. And for this cause, I have heard preachers say, they are to be vouched.  Zealot. 
Those Preachers might have been wiser, then for to maintain two so gross opinions▪ The first, accusing the Scriptures of such darkness, as though they could not b●e understood, whereas in deed the principal and most necessary points, the Lord hath spoken so clearly, that very simple men may be taught for to see the plain evidence of the word. The other depriveth the Church of the true interpreter of the word, which is the spirit of God, as though the Lord did not now give such gifts as he gave to those Doctors: which is a popish opinion also: for so long as God giveth his word to the Church, so long he giveth the interpreter of the same▪ although not in all ages alike: but whosoever is not blind, may easily see, that▪ in this age there be as great gifts bestowed upon the Church, as ever were in any▪ since the time of the Apostles.  Ath. 
Then you are one of those which deface the old Fathers, when ye will not allow them for to 〈…〉 the▪ Sermons. To what use then should ●●● read them?  Zealot. 
That is a very false accusation▪ should a man be accused for de●●●ing the honour of the Lord Chancellor, because he would deny him the dignity and honour of the prince▪ Likewise shall a man be say de for to injury or deface▪ the Doctors, because he will not give them the dignity which doth belong unto God alone? The preacher is the mouth of God unto the people, and not the mouth of men? he is not▪ for to utter doubtful matter and uncertain, but such as may be most evident. He must say, and prove even unto the conscience of the hearer, thus God speaketh, and thus he meaneth. He can not say Augustine saith it, therefore God saith it, Augustine sayeth it, therefore it is undoubtedly true: for Augustine might and did err many ways. But he may say, Saint Paul saith it, therefore GOD himself saith it, S. Paul saith, therefore it is undoubtedly true: for look what he saith, or any other Apostle▪ Evangelist or Prophet, God hath set it down, by them, it is his, and not theirs: they are but the instruments which he used for to utter and pen his will▪ his spirit in them ruled▪ the whole in this case, so that they did not, nor could not err: now when the preacher doth lay open their saying, not he, nor they, but GOD▪ speaketh: as they were the mouth of God for▪ to set it down, so is he now again the mouth of God, for to recite and declare it▪  Ath. 
The word of God is certain and▪ sure, because God cannot lie, but how shall▪ I ●●●we which is their ●● sense of it ● shall▪ I believe every man which doth interprer▪ the word▪ shall I not the better believe 〈…〉 if he say it is not my interpretation, but S. Jerome he saith so, S. Augustine he saith so I promise ye, he shall have the greater credit with me, for they were other manner of men than he.  Zealot. 
I cannot but ●●ruell to see how gross and dull your head is for to learn the truth, and how readily you can bring out such matters as this: ye speak not of your own head. I would there were no greater learned men than you blinded in this matter. But let me show ye your gross error▪ Ye say the word is certain and sure: but the interpretation thereof ye make doubtful: but what are we the better that the word of God is sure and certain, unless it be sure & certain unto us, which cannot be except the interpretation be so? It is as good for you to say the word is doubtful, as for to say the sense is doubtful: Now when as ye hang the sense upon men▪ can ye deny but that still it is in doubt? This must needs arise in the mind, those Doctors said so, but they might err, and therefore I am not certain that this is the sense. If this shall be admitted in the Church, what shall become of that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉▪ or full certainty of faith, which the word of GOD doth require to be in us, it is grounded upon the word of God, for it cannot stand otherwise.  
Moreover, faith is sure what God meaneth, or else it is no faith: therefore such as would hang men's saith upon the authority of men, where they must needs still be in doubt, and when they are at the furthest, they come but unto this, it is 〈…〉 like for to be true, because such notable men speak it, do not know a right what faith is, for that ye say, he shall have the more credit with you, if he say, It is not my saying, but the saying of Augustine: therein ye were even as good say, that your faith is built upon men, and not upon God. For if ye do believe, because some great learned or Godly man, telleth ye the matter, this is no true belief, for we must be fully persuaded that God himself doth tell us, or else we be never the near.  Ath. 
How shall I know when GOD speaketh, ●● which God speaketh▪ you come and preach one way, another cometh and▪ he doth, proache another way, ye preach one contrary to another: you say God speaketh, he saith God speaketh, which shall we believe▪ Is not ●ee to ●e● best believed, which can show that those great doctors are on his side.  Zealot. 
See what a ground you leave unto, you know not when GOD speaketh, not what God speaketh: and therefore ye will have some of the old Doctors for to tell: are ye sure he telleth ye right? if ye be, it is because he showeth ye the word of God, why he telleth ye so, the credit must be given unto the word, and not to the man. But you say ye can not tell when one doth allege the word in the true meaning, how then, can ye tell when one allegeth the doctor in the true meaning: he which will falsify the word of God in the Bible, he will not stick for to falsify the meaning of the Doctor: you may search the scriptures, to see whether the testimonies alleged be so, as the men of Berea did, when Paul preached Act. 17. 11. You cannot, neither are ye commanded for to search the doctors. And unless ye see the manifest 〈…〉 of god's word, ye are not bound for to believe, but if it be plainly showed, that God hath spoken, than ye are bound under the 〈…〉 of damnation, for to give credit unto it. Christ saith▪ My sheep, hear my voice, a stranger they will not hear. john 10. Also S. john saith, brethren, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits, whether they be of God. 1. john 4. he therefore which saith, I cannot tell when the voice of Christ is uttered, it is all one as if he should say, I am none of the sheep of Christ, because (as he saith) Every one of his sheep do know his voice. He that saith, I know not which Preacher doth preach truth, and which falsehood, he may even as well say, I am none of those, to whom the holy Ghost speaketh, and saith: Try the spirits whether they be of God, it is a general precept given unto all Christians.  Ath. 
Ye shall never make me believe that every man is for to judge, whether the Preacher speak true or false.  Zealot. 
I know not what I shall be able for to make you believe, but I am sure I can plainly show what ye ought to believe. First, mark this, the word came not from man, neither can a man teach it ye, unless God reveal it by his spirit: if it were the wisdom of the world, or of the flesh, than the spirit of the world which is in man and knoweth the secrets of man, could teach it: but because it is the mystery of GOD, none can make ye learn it, but the holy Ghost, which searcheth even the deep things of God, as S. Paul teacheth. 1. Cor. 2. 10 S. john in his first Epistle, Chap. the second, having told them that there were even then many Antichrists, he comforteth them with this. You saith he, have received an anointing from the holy one, & know all things. Like as therefore none of those can learn, whom God doth not enlighten with his spirit: so on the contrary part all those which are taught within by the spirit, do feel when the doctrine which the same spirit hath taught, is uttered: he knoweth his own, and he sealeth it up in their hearts and consciences, which being instructed by him, must needs consent thereto fully. For this cause there is great difference between such as set all upon the authorities of men, and such as preach, as S. Paul saith he did with the plain evidence of the spirit, and of power, 1. Cor. 2. 4. he addeth the reason in the next verse, that their faith should not consist in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God. If faith may not hang upon the wisdom of men, and therefore the enticing speech which man's wisdom teacheth, is to be avoided in setting forth the Gospel, then can it not stand upon the authorities of men.  Ath. 
Is it not lawful in any respect for to allege them?  Zealot. 
Yes, no doubt there are circumstances, which may make it sometime very needful I speak only against this, that they are alleged when as we may allege the same things out of the word itself. And when they are alleged, for men to build their faith upon, or to make men think that there can be no certainty in the interpretation of the word, but where as they are made for to speak: When as in deed the Preacher in his Sermon must come with such evidence and make his proof so plain and so strong, that it must needs convince the conscience of the hearers, in such wise that of necessity he shallbe forced for to say, undoubtedly that which this man uttereth, is that which God himself speaketh: for so saith the Apost. 1. Cor. 14. 24 If, saith he, all do prophesy, and there come in an infidel, or one unlearned, he is reproved of all, he is judged of all: and so the secrets of his heart are made manifest, and falling upon his face, he will worship God, confessing that God is verily among you. This testimony doth show that the force of God's word uttered nakedly is▪ such, that it convicteth the heart of the infidel, and compelleth him for to confess that God is with them which speak it.  
The word of God is described in the Epistle to the Hebrews Chap. 4. 12. after this sort: the word of God (saith he) is lively & mighty in operation, sharper than any two edged sword, and entereth in unto the dividing asunder of the soul and the spirit, of the joints and the marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. Men might understand by this, that by whom soever this sword of the spirit be drawn forth, if it be rightly handled, it will pierce through, and through both the bodies and souls of the hearers, and will move every vein in the heart, even of the wicked. So that he needeth not for to grind it, or make it sharp upon the grindstone of Ambrose or Hierom.  Ath. 
Then you destroy learning, if ye take away the writings of the Doctors, for they serve to no use: if it be as you say, why should students read them?  Zealot. 
There is great benefit in the reading of them, for to help us to the true understanding of the scriptures.  Ath. 
If they help ye to understand the scriptures, wherefore do ye not when ye expound the scriptures, tell which is theirs? ye rob them, and take the glory to your selves.  Zealot. 
Now ye reason as bussardlike as can be, ye may be a Doctor of Dunces, for this argument. Doth the Preacher come in his own name, must he tell his own will, or is he to seek his own glory or the glory of any other man? If other have helped him to find the knowledge of God's will, which he must utter, it is therefore become theirs, because they have showed it unto him: If he now set it forth in the name of the Lord alone, whose it is, doth he rob them? For look whatsoever a man findeth in the ancient writers in expounding, he is no further to believe them then they prove their exposition out of the Bible: so that it continueth still not theirs, but the Lords▪ and if we should ascribe it unto them, we should rob the Lord, and be thieves for other men. Therefore in this matter, we must follow the precept which the Lord giveth. 1, Peter 4. 11. He that speaketh let him speak as the words of God.  Ath. 
Is that so meant, that it is not alow●●to cite any thing out of other books besides the word?  Zealot. 
I told ye before that it is not simply unlawful for to cite or allege a sentence out of a Doctor. But the manner and end of the doing of it is all: I say likewise that a man may in some sort allege a saying out of any Heathen or profane Writer: for we have the example of Saint Paul Acts. 17. 1. Corinth. 15. Titus 1. Alleging the sayings of profane Poets. But we must see to what end: doth he reason thus, the Poet saith it, therefore are ye to give credit unto it: no man would be so foolish as to make their words being Heathen men, to be of such authority: but he showeth that even their own Doctors consented with him in those things. And therefore a shame, and foul reproach for them too be ignorant of the same. When the Papists do charge us to be gone from the faith of the old Fathers, although we are to confute them this way, namely, by showing their treachery and lying, when we are able to prove by the writings of the ancient Fathers that in the chief points they fully agree with us: yet this is not the way which God hath appointed and sanctified for the conversion and education of his people: this engine is over weak to rear up the Temple of the Lord: we must take heed we leave not the mighty word itself, and lean unto a tottering pillar: Saint Paul showeth the power of the word. 2. Corinth. 10. where he saith, although we walk in the flesh, yet we war not after the flesh: for the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty in God for to throw down holds: which he expoundeth in the verse which followeth, to be the imaginations and every high thing which is exalted against the knowledge of God, and every thought, which (he saith) they lead captive unto the obedience of Christ. There is no power nor any authority can do these things, but that which is in the word of God itself. Which is to be made so evident by the Preacher, that it may bring this thing to pass.  
The miserable experience in our time of such as fly from the strong power of the word, and fight with the weapons of men, may reach us, because it doth manifestly appear unto all which have eyes too see, that they are not strong enough to throw down holds, and to lead captive unto the obedience of Christ the rebellious thoughts and imaginations of men's minds: they cannot show a man by them converted sincerely & thoroughly from errors and evil manners: by alleging the authorities of men. It was not the practice of the ancient and godly fathers in their Sermons for to leave the testimonies of the mighty word, which is able to rend the stony rock in pieces, and to cleave to the authorities of weak men, which were gone before them. But what should a man say? The word is thought to be of no power unless it be strengthened otherwise.  
But let us leave this and come back again to some of your other matters. I remember ye did lay this as a great accusation against the preachers that they meddled with predestination.  Ath. 
I did so and not without cause, for they do great hurt thereby unto many, when they teach such things.  Zealot. 
What hurt can ye show, which cometh by preaching of predestination.  Ath. 
If a man be chosen for to be saved, let him do as evil as he can he shall not be damned: and if a man be appointed before he was borne to be damned, let him do never so much good he can not be saved: and therefore when ye teach this doctrine, ye were even as good tell the people that they may live as they lust: Let them never hear teaching, to what purpose should it serve?  Zealot. 
How proud and presumptuously bold ignorance doth make a man? It might seem to be a rare thing that a mortal man, which is but clay and dust, yea a rotten Carrion should advance himself against God, even the Lord of infinite wisdom and glory, but that we see it daily for to be common.  Ath. 
Do not accuse me for to be proud, I would I were as free from all other faults if it pleased God.  Zealot. 
If ye were as sick, as ye be proud, a very little meat would give ye your supper. But I know you do not see your pride.  Ath. 
I marvel why ye should count ●● proud, ye see how plain I go.  Zealot. 
You think that pride is in the coat, when it is in the heart, a man may have a kings heart in his breast, and yet a beggars coat upon his back. There is cause why ye do not go gay, ye are not able: for take the ragged dost beggar in the world, and give her the same wing which the great Ladies have, and ye shall see her fly the same flight. There is pride against GOD, and against men, and you are in the deepest of them, even against God.  Ath. 
Prove that, because ye condemn me so sore.  Zealot. 
Ye take yourself for to be wise, and the Lord undiscrete and unwise. For ye charge him with folly when as ye say this doctrine doth overthrow all, and yet he hath expressed it in sundry places of his word. If it be so exceeding hurtful, then surely Christ was to be blamed: Saint Paul, and saint Peter with the rest of the Apostles were very undiscrete, because they have set it forth. It seemeth that it had been good for them to have taken advise of the deep heads of the world, which might have foretold them the danger which would follow, and have said, Masters take heed how ye deal with such doctrine, it will turn ye unto discretite. O foolish wise flesh, this matter is over far beyond thy reach, thou canst never come within the smell of it.  Ath. 
Smell, or smell not, let me hear ye answer the matter.  Zealot. 
You suppose that your reasons are unanswerable, and that causeth ye to be so fresh and ready, but alas man, your halfpenny is no good silver, ye are in a wrong box, I will show you how childishly ye err.  
Forsooth say you, if God hath chosen a man to salvation before he was borne, then let him do as evil as he can, he shall not be damned: and whereas the nature of man is prone and ready to seek after the liberty of the flesh, this doth open a door unto him, and a wide passage unto all evil, because he needeth not to care what he doth, it is appointed before hand what shall become of him.  
This mighty and invincible reason of yours hath never an eye to see with all, and although it seem for to have good legs yet is it but an old Cripple: be not led by it for ye shall both fall into the ditch. Did ye never hear what S. Paul saith, Ephesians. Chapter I. 4. these are his words, as he hath chosen us in him, before the foundations of the world were laid, that we should be holy and without blame before him through love. How stand these two things together, when you say if men be chosen they may live as they lust, and God saith by his Apostle, that he hath chosen them for to be holy and blameless in their conversation. And this is undoubtedly true, that those whom God hath predestinate to be heirs of glory, he hath sealed them with the holy Spirit, as ye may read in the same Chapter. They are freed from the bondage of sin by the spirit, they walk in the spirit, they are led by the spirit, they show forth by the fruits of the spirit, that the flesh with the lusts and concupiscences thereof is crucified in them, and that they are regenerate and 〈…〉 again of the spirit, and so become new creatures in Christ, sin is abominable unto them, they hate & loath it no less than deadly poison, they pant and breath to be wholly set free from the remnantes of it. Righteousness is dear and precious unto them, their joy and hearts delight is in it. They sigh and groan, because they can not reach unto the perfection of it. The word of God doth plainly teach, that the elect are thus as I have showed: and yet men say that election taketh away all care of Godly life.  Ath. 
I like not this, that men will say, they know God hath chosen them: how can they tell? Can any man tell what God will do with him? Did God ever tell them, that they are elected:  Zealot. 
How should you like of this, when as ye like of no goodness? How should you which are but a natural man, judge of things spiritual? You think a man can not tell what GOD will do with him: because you are blind and see not the way: ye suppose all other are so: you are an Infidel, or else ye might plainly hear GOD speak in his word, and tell which shall be saved, and which are in the way to damnation. Do ye suppose that it is uncertain when the scripture telleth a man how he shall know that he is chosen, if the word of God tell him he is chosen, hath not God himself then told him? Read the first Chapter of the second Epistle of Peter, and there ye shall see how a man shall know certainly that he is elected, and that he shall never fall. For if a man feel that GOD teacheth him by his spirit, and reneweth him by repentance, he is sure (because God saith so) that he is chosen to eternal life: if at any time he feel the grace of GOD weak in him, then doth he doubt and stagger, but yet his faith getteth the upper hand. On the other side, when a man liveth in sin, and obeyeth unrighteousness: God telleth him plainly that he is in the way to damnation. And therefore all those which do not find in themselves the spiritual birth at the least begun whereby they may assure themselves that they be chosen: May certainly say, that as yet their state is damnable.  Ath. 
How can ye say their state is damnable, so long as they believe? Can men do more than believe?  Zealot. 
They do not believe: for if they believe, then are they sure that GOD loveth them, what is it else which they believe? if they know they be in favour with God, it is because he chose them in Christ. If they doubt of God's favour then do they doubt whether God heareth their prayers, & therefore they shall not receive any thing at the hands of GOD, as ye may learn in the Epistle of Saint james. Chapter 1. verse 6, 7. and although many of the faithful do doubt & stagger oftentimes, yet they are not like the unfaithful which continued in the same, but they get the upper hand, they strive by prayer, & by all other means which god hath appointed, to strengthen and increase their faith, their knowledge, their repentance, and so far to grow in grace, until they come to assurance that God hath chosen them. As for the wicked they know of no such faith, that a man may atraine to assurance of his election: they labour not about any such matter, but continue still in their blind doubts, setting all upon hazard: and as for their doing what they can, it is nothing, they cannot but sin, and therefore be damned, howsoever they seem for to do good works, yet before God they are no good works, because they proceed not of faith, but from the flesh▪ they are not grafted into the true vine, Christ, and for that cause can bring forth no fruit. joh. 15.  Ath. 
If GOD had chosen men before ●●● world ●o be saved▪ Wherefore did Christ die for to save them? If they should be saved before, his death was more than needed. Wherefore should men be taught, wherefore should they pray● all these are in vain.  Zealot. 
You are like unto a man which doth make strife and debate between brethren and friends: you would set prayer and teaching, and the death of Christ, together by the ears with God's election: but do what ye can, all these will agree well together, they be so unseparably knit in friendship. God hath chosen men for to be redeemed in his son. For the scripture showeth that we are chosen in Christ. He hath chosen men to be instructed and called by preaching the word, he hath chosen men for to call upon him and to worship him, in holiness and righteousness, all the days of their life.  Ath. 
Ye speak much of preaching, preaching as though it were so needful: Can they make the word of God better than it is? Is there not enough set down in the Bible for men to read, wherefore should they add more? Can not men read that? Is not reading preaching?  Zealot. 
Now ye seek new starting holes▪ There is some Colt so wild, that he will trouble half a dozen light men of foot for to drive him: he will in at every gap, turn at every lane, and out at every gate. Even so I can liken the reasoning with such as you are: ye have so many by shifts, so many cavils, so many turnings, that ten of the best learned in this land, shall hardly be able to keep ye in the way. But we must not leave ye thus but bring ye into the way again. Preaching is not so needful, they can make the word of God no better than it is: why man they do not preach for to make the word better, but for to make you better. There is enough set down in the Bible, but you understand little enough of it. Men may read it, as a great number do which pervert it, and are nothing bettered by it, because they seek not help for to understand it. Reading say you is preaching. Truly then I know a man which hath a little daughter that is a trim Preacher. I perceive our land is full of Preachers: but yet in deed not such as Saint Paul describeth. For the little girl is not apt to teach, able to instruct, to exhort, to convince, not to divide or cut the word of God aright, nor to open the Mysteries of it. If ye leap over many of these ditches, ye will break your neck in the end: ye are a very skilful man, when ye take expounding and applying the word of God, for to be adding: for ye ask why they should add.  ath 
Are not men allowed which are but readers, even by the learnedst in the land? Do ye find fault with the Bishops? or are ye one of those which do not allow of Bishops? for such fellows there be now a days.  Zealot 
I would ye should know that I am none of those which disallow Bishops: when as the word of God doth set it down to be a worthy work: it is a very reverend office, & exceedingly they are to be blamed, which do contemn it, or deface it. God hath ordained the office of Bishops in his Church, for to govern and feed his people: such as would abolish this ordinance of God, do resist God, and are enemies unto the Church of Christ.  Ath. 
By my faith, I like ye the better for that.  Zealot. 
I like you never the better for your swearing.  Ath. 
I am not so precise as too make any account of swearing by my faith.  Zealot. 
I think so, for faith is no more account made of, then as a packhorse, all is laid on his back.  Ath. 
I pray God we may do no worse, and then I hope we shall do well enough: are you without sin? I doubt not but ye will commit as great offence to GOD as this, or ever the week be ended. Pull the beam out of your own eye: If every man would look to himself, there should not be so much finding fault one with an other.  Zealot. 
Where learn ye that prayer in the scripture? The Prophet David, Psalm 19 Prayeth to be cleansed from his secret sins, although they be never so small. Where learned ye to speak after this sort, no worse, and that ye hope then to do well enough: Is it nothing to break so strait a rule of Christ? Do ye not think that children dying in their infancy, before they can speak or work are damned for less sins. I speak of such as are not of God's Church. When as they have only original sin▪ You know not from how evil a root this ●inne doth spring: neither do ye know the foulness of sin, and therefore ye cannot tell how much God doth abhor it, & condemn it. For this cause, being as full of filthy vices and profane sins as ye can be thrust, and of such in deed as God doth curse and hate: because they seem small unto you, ye suppose ye shall do well enough. What if I have greater in me or that I shall commit greater as you say before the week be ended, doth that excuse you? I have many secret sins in me, which I do not see because I do not perfectly understand the law of God: for these I do earnestly entreat the Lord to make them known unto me, by giving me more perfect understanding of his will, and also to give me power for to cast them out. I have also many sins in me which I see and know, that clean so fast, that I cannot utterly cast them forth: notwithstanding I hate and abhor them, I am weary of them, I fight against them, I groan and sigh in my heart with sorrow for them, I feel no sweetness in them: for they are more bitter than Gall unto my soul. I am exceeding glad when I can suppress them, I have professed and vowed a continual war against them, and although I prevail not so far as to be utterly rid of them, yet I labour by meditation in gods word, and by hearty prayer, to bring them under, that they reign not over me, nor that I may not agree with them: and although I be not able to become perfect, yet with all the might I can, I strain and breath to come as nigh perfection as I can: my desire is good to reach it, and although I find that I come many degrees short, yet I approach nearer and nearer. This is true repentance, this is that which S. Paul setteth forth in himself. Rom. 7. Philip. 3. With this I know God is pleased▪ without this there cannot be any service done to God.  Ath. 
I like not when men will spy a mote in another man's eye.  Zealot. 
Our Saviour Christ doth not forbid to espy a mote in an other man's eye, for we are commanded to admonish one an other, what soever it be wherein we do amiss: but such as you, which can not abide to be admonished, do ever allege that saying of Christ, as though he had spoken it unto this end, that one should not admonish an other. It is a ●oule hypocrisy for a man to be curious in reproving small faults in other, and make no conscience of great and foul vices in himself. Every man ought to look unto himself, and every man is bound by the word of God, and charity, to look unto others, and to convert them from their sins if they can. To convert a sinner from going astray, and to save a soul from death. As S. james speaketh. Chap. 5. vers. 20. And so to cover a multitude of sins, is a blessed thing, and aught, to move men with diligence to use charitable admonition.  Ath. 
If they would do it in charity, I could like of it: but men have no love, they do it because they are precise and captious.  Zealot. 
Let a man see ye commit any foul crime, and reprove ye, your answer is by and by, ye may not judge: when as the matter is plain and doth judge itself: Now when a man doth admonish you, according as God commandeth, ye are bold with the same mouth, which said, ye ought not to judge, for to judge him, affirming that he doth it of a captious and quarreling mind: the thing being so exceeding good of itself: who made you able for to see into the heart of a man, and to find that he doth it not well. You are those of whom the Prophet speaketh, Woe be unto those which call good evil, and evil good, If he be a man spotted with vices himself, & doth reprove another, not caring for to amend, ye may boldly say he doth it of an evil mind: for can he be charitable unto other men, to seek their conversion, and not to be charitable unto himself to seek his own salvation: Or can he hate ungodliness in other, and not hate it in himself?  Ath. 
Well, the best of us all may be amended, we have all infirmittes: what would ye have more than this, at the last for to call for mercy: If a man be sorry and ask God forgiveness, is he not even as well as they which are the most precise: the mercy of GOD must save all: and what would ye have a man care for more than to be saved: I pray God I may have time to repent in the end.  Zealot. 
Here is good stuff, here is sound divinity: I may well term this reason even the porter of hell, for it openeth even the widest▪ gate, that a thousand may go in on a rank.  
This is true, that the best of us all may be amended, and that we have all infirmities: but ye do wickedly apply it, for when ye should reason thus, the best may be ameded, the most holy are spotted, and therefore as Saint Paul doth teach, they must endeavour for to proceed forward: for the word of God willeth men to strive and contend even against all uncleanness, and never to cease, but to come as nigh perfection as is possible. But you reason quite contrary, that because the best are sinners, therefore men are to make small account to amend. Ye should think thus, the most godly have need to sorrow and mourn, and proceed in repentance, therefore how much need, have such as are gross sinners. For our Saviour Christ doth show, john 8. That whosoever committeth sin, is the servant of sin: Now so long as a man is the servant of sin, so long is he not the servant of God, for no man can serve two so contrary masters. Saint john sayeth, he that committeth sin, is of the Devil. Where learned ye this, that a man may continue in his vices all his life, and at the last call for mercy? God commandeth men to repent speedily, and not to put of from day to day? He threateneth exceeding sharply, in the first Chapter of the Proverbs, that when he hath called and cried unto men for to return from their evil ways, and they have refused, that at the last, they shall call and not be heard: he will laugh when their destruction cometh upon them: they shall seek him, but not find him. Do you think that when God hath called and we refuse, that we shall not call and he refuse?  Ath. 
The scripture saith, that what time soever a sinner doth repent him of his sin, God will forgive him.  
Zealot. If the scripture speak any thing to the comfort of the sorrowful heart, the Devil doth teach the impenitent for to abuse it to their hardening. It is most true that at what time soever a sinner doth repent, his sins are all forgiven, but is it in a man's choice for to repent when he will, can he take a new heart when it doth please him can he have the new birth, and a right spirit when he will? It is God which doth create a man a new, or maketh him a new creature in Christ, when it pleaseth him. A man needeth, not for to care for any thing but to be saved, but that is not so easy a matter as men think. Strive for to enter in at the strait gate (saith Christ) for many shall strive and shall not enter. The way is narrow and the gate is strait which leadeth unto life, and few there be which find it: and if this be true which you say, that a man may live in sin all his life, and at the last be saved even for utteling a few words: Then the way is broad and easy, who cannot find it, who almost doth not walk in it▪ But alas, it is a broken staff which men do lean unto. God is very merciful, but not to those which despise his Gospel, for vengeance belongeth unto such: it is unpossible (saith the holy Ghost. Hebr. 2.) that such should escape. And although ye have never so long time to repent, if God do not work it in ye, you shall die in that blindness and hardness of heart in which ye have lived: we must seek in our life time to be begotten by the word: for the scripture saith God doth beget his children by that.  Ath. 
Shall not man hope for to repent at the last?  Zealot. 
Mark what repentance is: and try whether ye can repent now, it ye cannot, what moveth ye to think that ye shalt be able then?  Ath. 
I hope I do repent now, and shall do at the end.  Zealot. 
Repentance is a returning home unto God from all evil vices and corrupt desires which are in the flesh and in the heart. To be renewed by repentance, cannot be but where a man is renewed in knowledge, for that is one part of the image of GOD which must be restored in us: Read in the 4. Chapter to the Ephe. from the 17. verse forward. If a man continue in darkness, he doth not repent: He which committeth his foul sins still, although it be but in the desire of his heart, hath not repent. He which doth not feel sorrow and grief, and hath not a broken and contrite heart, and a sorrowful spirit, hath not repent: he which doth not eschew evil and do good, hath not repent: All these are taught by the word, for that is it by which we must cleanse, our ways: and therefore ye may boldly say, that he which learneth not out of God's word to repent, cannot repent: for although if it were possible he could repent for all other sins, yet this one sin, to set light by the instruction of the Gospel, will make still worse than they of Sodom, as our Saviour doth tell us▪ Math. 11.  Ath. 
Will you condemn those which call for mercy at their end which never repented before?  Zealot. 
We may not pronounce upon any one man, because GOD only seethe what is in man. But yet we may boldly go so far as the word of God doth lead us: and by it we may see what GOD requireth and what God doth condemn. We may see that the common and general repentance which all profess at their end is not so much as a shadow of true repentance: repentance cannot be in a man, especially upon a sudden, but he must needs feel a wonderful change in himself: he must needs be able for to say I have repent, I know and feel that I am a new man, and therefore because I know most certainly that there is repentance in me, I know most certainly that I shall be saved: for GOD promiseth salvation unto every one which doth repent. In the common repentance men feel no such thing: But are still (as they may be well enough) in doubt of salvation.  Ath. 
Shall not all such as call upon God be heard? surely I dare not but think they shall.  Zealot. 
I am sure because the Lord doth speak it. That whosoever doth call upon him shall be saved. But yet ye must put this in, that then they must pray in faith, as for the prayers of a wicked man which doth not repent, and therefore hath not the true faith they are no prayers before GOD, although he cry loud, or call never so often: for unto such the Lord speaketh in the first Chapter of the Prophet Isaiath, When ye stretch forth your hands, I will turn away mine eyes from ye. Also if ye multiply your prayer I will not hear. Likewise the holy Ghost saith by Solomon in the proverbs that the sacrifice of the wicked is an abomination. And in the same book it is said. He that turneth away his ear from hearing the law, even his prayer shall be abominable, and therefore in the latter end of the fourth Chapter of Ecclesiastes, he adviseth men when they come into the house of GOD, to take heed to their feketes: and to be readier to hear then to offer the sacrifice of fools. For (saith he) they know not that they do evil. Now ye shall find many m●n▪ ●rye in their miseries and make great confession of their ungodly life: but yet without true repentance, as it is manifest, for so soon as the prosper again, ye shall see them return to their old by as: if they had truly repent, then should it ever continue with them, many that live in malice, so soon as they be dangerously sick, will be ready to ask forgiveness, and to forgive all the world. They know it booteth not to bear malice any longer, but so long as they be able to craulle out of their bed, and to stand upon their legs, ye shall see their old withered malice (as it seemed) spring a fresh again, which is a strong proof, that they never truly repent, howsoever they thought they did. And even so is it in all other sins, they seem unto men for to repent, they ask▪ GOD forgiveness, but yet the heart abideth still the same that it was before God: there is no change in them before God: they have not put of the sinful body of the flesh: there is no change in them before God: howsoever they seem to be changed before men. This counterfeit repentance maketh men bold all their life to despise the holy word of God, which should instruct and guide them: it causeth them at their end not to fear the wrath of God, no● the vengeance to come: because they think GOD is satisfied with this repentance, and also because they know not their sins, they suppose that they are but over the shoes, when as they are drowned in the gulf of uncleanness over head and ●ares.  Ath. 
God help us if it be thus how shall poor men do then?  Zealot. 
Men must apply themselves all their life to seek for the knowledge of GOD, to increase in saith and repentance, that when they come to their end, they may have a testimony of conscience, that they have feared God.  
Likewise, when ye come to a sick man and ask how he doth, if he can but say, as it pleaseth GOD, ye answer, that is enough neighbour, hold ye there: If he say I have offended GOD, and I pray GOD have mercy upon me, there needeth no more as you think. Ye should teach them the Law, that they may see how they have offended God, ye should show them the fearful curse, and horrible ●●●●gea●●●● due unto sin, that so they may 〈…〉 ken with remo●●e and sorrow▪ ye should show them also the glad tidings of the Gospel, and what Christ offereth unto the penitent sinner: ye should teach them what holiness GOD requireth at their hand, how they may come unto it, what promise they have made unto GOD of it in baptism. Ye should instruct them in all the principal points of the faith. That so they may have the renewing faith which shall justify and save them.  Ath. 
What difference can you show between those which are taught as you would have them and such as have knowledge, they can no more but repent, call for mercy, and believe? And this do they aswell as the other.  Zealot. 
You think there is no difference, but there is this difference, that the one part doth believe and repent in deed, and the other but in word: as our Saviour Christ Matth. 15. allegeth the saying of God by his Prophet. This people draw near me with their mouth, and honour me with their lips, but their heart is far from me.  Ath. 
That is meant when a man doth speak with his mouth, and meaneth not with his heart, but these have a good meaning in their mind.  Zealot. 
It is meant when a man approacheth with his mouth, and hath still a wicked heart, and an evil conscience, for those do remove a man so far from God, that no blind intent can make him near unto him. God looketh for great things in the hearts of those which call upon him.  Ath. 
I think God accepteth the prayer of the honest poor man as well as of any other, and will hear him as soon, as he will hear the prayer of those which know most, and are the best learned.  Zealot. 
God is no accepter of persons, he heareth the poor as well as the rich, the unlearned as well as the learned, so that their prayers be made aright. But if ye speak of those honest men which are so called, & yet are void of all knowledge of God's word, and of religion, it is an easy matter for to prove that their prayers are not good.  Ath. 
Can ye have any better prayer than the lords prayer, when they pray that, can ye require more?  Zealot. 
There can be no better prayer than the lords prayer, and he which prayeth that right must needs be saved. But let me ask you this question, what if a man pray the lords prayer with his mouth and regardeth it not in his heart, shall his prayer be good?  Ath. 
His prayer cannot be good, he doth but mock God.  Zealot. 
Then tell me this, a man prayeth thus, hallowed be thy name, in word he seemeth to desire that the name of God may be sanctified and honoured: he goeth his way, and blasphemeth the name of GOD, or heareth it blasphemed and never careth, raileth upon his word, dishonoureth him, do ye not think that he made a sweet preyer? In the like manner he saith, thy will be done in earth as it is in heaven, he goeth away and is so far from desiring to do the will of God, that he never careth for to know it. Whereby it is evident that he little meant with his heart that which he said with his tongue.  
Moreover, he would seem in words to crave of God, that he and others might do the will of God in earth, as the Angels do in heaven: and yet tell him when he breaketh the will of God, and his answer is, I am not so precise, I am not so curious, I will not be so holy, you are full of the spirit: and then he will even reproach that which he seemed for to pray for. And these are the prayers of those poor honest men which you think God heareth as well as the prayers of any other. I might go through all the petitions and find the like. It is exceeding great pity that men want instruction: for a great multitude do trust to their prattling prayers, when as they do not either understand what they lay, or else mean the contrary.  Ath. 
If a man labour all the week truly and honestly, and upon the Sabbath day come to the Church and make his prayers, shall we say God regarded not his prayer, because he doth not understand what he prayeth: his intent is good, he doth his good will: he hath a wife and children to provide for, he must follow the world, and let preaching go, or else he shall beg: and so long as he doth hurt no man, but dealeth uprightly: I think God doth require no more at his hands. Such as have nought else for to do let them seek for knowledge.  Zealot. 
Ye are like unto a hedge which is full of briars and pricking thorns, a man cannot lay hold on ye unless ye bring his hedging gloves, and his bill. Ye have many things to shroud yourself under, and to keep the truth from touching of ye, as the Lord in his word hath set forth the whole armour for a Christian soldier: so likewise Satan doth by suggestion teach men to arm themselves against the Lord. But ye must be stripped of your armour, at the least ye must be showed that it is no armour of proof. Ye say that if a man labour truly & honestly all the week, those labour so which do it not alone for necessity, but because God requireth that men should painfully travel: and which have the word of God as a lantern for to guide their steps: for what soever a man doth, if it be not in obedience of God in his word, it is sin. To pray upon the Sabbath for fashion sake, is very detestable, because we are in continual danger, and in continual need, and want help continually from the Lord, upon whom our salvation doth daily depend: we are commanded to pray continually, or to have our hearts watching thereunto. To pray without understanding, is not praying, but mumming. You speak as though it were a thing which God doth allow, that men should seek more after the world them after God: & so make the world their God. And because they have wife and children to provide for, therefore they cannot seek to know God. As though we were not commanded to seek first, the kingdom of God, that is to seek that chief, and more than the world, and then GOD hath promised, that all these things shall be cast upon us. How shall any man be excused when God maketh this promise unto all: as he doth perform it unto as many as do trust him. I have been young (saith the Prophet) and now am old, yet did I never see the righteous forsaken, and his feed begging their bread. When ye say he must follow the world, and let preaching go, ye were even as good say, he must follow the Devil, and let God go. And if an ignorant man could come so far as to deal up rightly, and to hurt no man neither in word nor need, (which notwithstanding they come nothing near) yet this would not serve the turn: for there is a God who will be known and worshipped in that religion which he teacheth. Have ye so fleshly eyes that ye can look no higher? Do ye think God requireth no more but an honest and civil conversation towards men. God requireth even of the poor labouring man that he should (if he will be blessed) meditate in his Law, or his doctrine day and night. Psalm 1. Likewise when he saith that the man is blessed which feareth the Lord, to the end we might know which that man is, he addeth immediately, he hath great delight in his commandments. But the most part of your honest men now a days, delight so much in the word of God, and meditate so much in it, that they care not a button though they never hear it: they love it and set as much by it as they do by an old shoe. And are not so forward as you do allow, to seek for the knowledge of God, when they have nought else for to do: for you think ye grant a liberal allowance to God.  Ath. 
Would ye make me believe that God doth require that men should leave their business: when they be poor and have charge of children, and give themselves to reaping, and hearing of preachings. Would ye have him let his children starve?  Zealot. 
God doth not require that men should leave their business, but as they have times to seek for the things of the body, so also are there times, for to seek for heavenly things: God hath not made men for this life, but for the world to come. He hath set the promises of eternal life before them that seek them painfully in his word, men must not be as bruit beasts all for the belly.  Ath. 
What if there be no preaching where a man dwelleth?  Zealot. 
What if there be within three or four mile?  Ath. 
Shall he run three or four mile after that:  Zealot. 
Ye go about three or four mile to the market for to provide meat for the carrion body, but ye would not allow a man upon that day which is the market day for the food of the soul to go half so far. Ye are the children of the world, earth, worms, those which labour for the meat which perisheth, but will not labour for the meat which endureth for ever. john. 6. Ye love the world and the things which are in the world, and therefore as Saint john saith in his first Epistle, The love of the Father is not in ye, ye cannot serve God and Mammon.  Ath. 
Let them run that will, when I see them agree better together, than I will hear them: when they cannot agree among themselves, they are unwise which hearken unto them.  Zealot. 
Ye might be a counsellor for your grave wisdom, who is able to answer you in this matter: when ye dash forth so strong an argument grounded upon so great reason, and infallible principles: but I pray ye what would ye have done if ye had lived in the time of jeremy the prophet, and also of other Prophets, when there were the Priests and the rulers in the temple, with many which took upon them to be prophets, and to speak in the name of the Lord, set against a few of God's messengers? What would ye have done when Christ preached, and the Pharisees and Priests, and all the learned against him? Would ye not have heard Paul, because he disagreed with the false Apostles? The Scriptures have foretold that there shall be heresies, sects, and false teachers in the Church even to the worlds end. Your great skill hath taught ye to make so good a choice of the time when ye will hear, and to take so long a day, for I warrant ye it will not be two weeks before the day of doom. Ye should speak plainly and say. Ye never mean for to hear, and that ye would wish all other for to be of the same mind: and then ye should be little troubled with God's word. Cry out against the preachers, but let your meaning be against preaching itself. The Devil is a very skilful workman, he doth not teach his scholars to say, fie upon God's word: but to find excuses how to shift themselves from hearing the same.  Ath. 
If they would teach men how to believe better, than I could be content for to say as you say: But they would drive men into despair, and bring them out of belief with the fear of damnation.  Zealot. 
This wedge hath been driven often enough already, nevertheless, because ye are so knotty, and crabbed a piece to cleave, I will give it one blow more: the matter is heinously taken that men preach sharply in reprehending the vices which now rain. They are now said to preach nothing but the Law, which in deed cannot convert a man from ungodliness, but of itself is the strength of sin: they are said to be murderers, because they preach but the dead letter which doth kill. No doubt whosoever doth preach no more but the Law, and so damnation, is no minister of Christ. But here lieth all the matter, men would be flattered and soothed in their sins, they are loath for to here of any judgement of God against wickedness: and as they be like unto the people of the jews when the Prophets were sent unto them, corrupt and corrupting themselves, and grudging against the Messengers of God when they threatened vengeance, and willing them not to preach so, but to preach pleasunt things: even so are there now which lay pillows under their elbows and preach peace, peace, when all is corrupt in their lives, and therefore there can be no peace. He which shall read the Prophets, shall find the state of the Church then, and ours now, in all these things very like: First, all foul vices over slowing, as among us: Secondly, the people presuming upon their blind faith, and counterfeit repentance, and hypocritical prayers, as they do now: thirdly, the Prophets sent of God exceeding sharply reproving them, and denouncing the judgements of God against them: Fourthly, the people repining there at, and thinking themselves hardly dealt withal: desiring to be more tenderly handled as to hear pleasant things, and to have them prophesy of wine and strong drink: Lastly, certain Preachers sit for the turn, healing up, and smoothing up all with sweet words, and telling them all is well, all is well. He which doth but lightly read over the Prophets, and cannot find all these things, is but a simple man. In like manner, he which doth dwell among us at this day, and perceiveth no such matters, is but a stranger.  Ath. 
Nay you that are precise Puritans do find fault where there is none: you condemn men for every trifle.  
Whereas ye are but men, and have your infirmities as well as other: yet ye would make yourselves as holy as Angels.  Zealot. 
I abhor the error of the Catheristes or Puritans, I confess that I am laden with corruptions: if that be your meaning, to charge me with that opinion, which is wicked and devilish. But if ye take the name Puritan for one which hath more care to obey God, than the common sort, and therefore laboureth to keep himself pure and unspotted of the world (as Saint james speaketh) then look to it, that ye be not found among those which revile not men but God. If ye mean by precise men, those which are so scrupulous, as to make sin where there is none, as your words do plainly show, then do I utterly renounce that name for to be called precise, and I disallow such fond persons, whosoever they be. But I know you mean those which walk precisely as Saint Paul willeth, and do take heed to their ways: not condemning men, but admonishing them, not in trifles, but in weighty matters: although you count them trifles. The commandments of God (at the least some of them) are but trifles with you. You see not, nor consider how great the Lord God is, and therefore ye dare affirm divers sins done against him to be but trifling and small, ye measure not sin with a true measure, when ye do measure it after the rule of a man. Ye do not know wherefore there is eternal death threatened against every small sin: ye marvel at that, because ye are blind and cannot judge how great he is, whose will is disobeyed. Let me set it before ye: Do ye not suppose that if one of your degree should say some thing against ye that were a reproach, as for example, call ye knave, were it not an offence?  Ath. 
I think I may well say he doth offend, for he ought not to deal so with his neighbour.  Zealot. 
Then he is worthy some rebuke for his evil tongue?  Ath. 
Yea, and to confess his fault also.  Zealot. 
What if he should give such language to a justice of peace? or to some inferior Magistrate? Ye will confess the fault is greater: because it is against a higher person?  Ath. 
No doubt the fault should be greater, and he were worthy to sit by the heels for it.  Zealot. 
What if he should do it to a noble man, as one of the chief counsellors of the Prince, were it not then much greater?  Ath. 
I must needs confess so: and such a villain were worthy for to lose his ●ares.  Zealot. 
What if he should do it unto a Prince?  Ath. 
He were worthy then for to lose his life.  Zealot. 
Do ye not know that GOD is in an infinite degree above Princes, they are but dust before him?  Ath. 
I know that well enough.  Zealot. 
Wherefore have ye not the reason then for to consider, that those sins which seem to be very small, are exceeding great, because they be done against his infinite Majesty. the ignorance of this point causeth many men for to make but alight account of divers sins, and even to laugh at them: likewise to mock at those which make conscience of them, counting them over precise and nice. Such men do not know the Lord aright in his most high majesty: They know not the weightiness of his law, even in the least point in it. And it is over childish which they object against the godly, have not you infirmities? are you not men? What would they gather hereby, that because men have infirmities, therefore they may not reprove such as wilfully and carelessly offend. The rest of your speech is a mere slander, a device which the Devil hath found out for to shame true godliness. For let a man have but the tenth part of the zeal, which the word of God requireth, or never so little a spark of endeavour for to walk uprightly, and he shall have it castin his teeth, that he thinketh himself half a God, and taketh himself to be as holy as an Angel.  Ath. 
A number do so indeed, or else they would not be so ready for to check every man: and esteem so well of themselves.  Zealot. 
Doth that bone stick in your throat still, take heed that it do not choke ye. Ye take it for a sore check, when any doth refuse to take part with you in your wickedness: following the counsel of Saint Paul, when he saith, have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them. Light is come into the world, and men love darkness more than light, because their works be evil. How well they esteem of themselves you can not tell: this is most certain, that although a godly man hath nothing of his own for to boast of, because it is the grace of the Lord, which hath put the difference, yet ye may well think better of himself, then of the wicked. And such as have no regard to serve God but in a few words.  Ath. 
Do ye think that there be none which are over precise: which would seem for to be so holy, and yet are not.  Zealot. 
The Devil is a cunning workman, when he seeketh for to bring the truth into discredit, he can play on both hands, he can deceive on every side. And therefore he hath some vain and curious brains which are over precise in things which are no sin, passing by foul and great sins in themselves, which is a great vanity, and under colour of godly zeal, which they would seem for to have, they cover their bitterness even of wormwood, and Gall: which uncharitably sometimes they cast forth upon such as are more Godly than themselves. But this ought not for to be any discredit unto such as are zealous and earnest against those things which are vices in deed, although they seem for to be never so small: as for example, when one doth swear as you did, by his faith, or by bread, or fire: tell him of it: what is his answer: ye are over precise: I mean no hurt neither to God nor men: I speak earnestly, I do not lie: If it be a sin, it is but a small sin. But see how gross an excuse this is, he breaketh the commandment of God, and yet he meaneth no hurt: Christ our great teacher doth straightly urge it, and yet he saith it is but a small sin, a thing not to be regarded. How much dishonour is this to our heavenly Master, to say that he taught things so small and trifling, that they are not to be regarded?  Ath. 
Well, it is happy that we shallbe saved by faith in Christ, although we be sinful: he hath shed his blood for us: I lookefor to be saved by him, what would ye have more?  Zealot. 
It is happy in deed for those which have faith, for they are cleansed from their sins. But such as you seek no more but to make the death of Christ as an easy score to set all upon: for ye are like to the man which thinking that he should have all of his hostis for scoring up, took very liberally: ye think the reckoning is now so easy, that ye may set cock a howpe, all is paid for. But if I should try your faith by the word, ye should see that ye have little enough: and therefore your score will fail in the end, and grow to a greater payment than ye suppose.  Ath. 
Whatsoever you say, ye shall never drive me from believing in Christ: nor all the sort of ye.  Zealot. 
I would not for ten thousand worlds be the man which should drive any one from the faith in Christ, I do seek to bring ye unto the faith in Christ.  Ath. 
Ye may keep such seeking to yourself, and let me alone: I believe as well as you, take care for yourself, you shall not answer for me.  Zealot. 
Now ye are sure I trow, for this night, ye have stopped my mouth, and given me a bone to gnaw upon. But I pray ye shall not I answer for you in no respect? What if I see ye are blind and ready for to fall into the pit of eternal destruction, and will not put forth my hand for to secure ye, is it not to be laid unto my charge, that I wanted love? Therefore I can easily pull your bridle out of my mouth: and be so bold as for to meddle with ye: we will a little try, because ye brag so stoutly, how well ye believe. Ye believe Christ was crucified, and suffered upon the Cross: but are ye able for to prove that ye believe in Christ crucified?  Ath. 
I say I do, are you able for to disprove me?  Zealot. 
Sin is not slain in ye, therefore ye do not.  Ath. 
How prove ye that sin is not slain in me?  Zealot. 
Because it doth reign in ye, therefore it is alive.  Ath. 
I know not what ye mean by that.  Zealot. 
Ye are led by sin, ye delight in it, ye have not mortified the lusts and concupiscences of the same. And therefore ye have not learned Christ, as S. Paul speaketh. Ephesians 4. Ye have not put of the old man, and put on the new man. The death and passion of Christ hath not slain sin in ye, for to believe in Christ crucified, is for to be crucified with him, as the Apostles do teach in sundry places. The reason is this, Christ was not crucified for to slay sin in himself, (for he had none) but in his members, which are joined and knit unto him by faith, in them the force & power of his death doth show itself: now he which hath not this work of the death of Christ in him, that he feeleth himself crucified concerning the body of sin, his faith in the passion of Christ is but a dead faith, and cannot save him. This is the cause why S. Paul faith, Rom. 8. That those which are in Christ, walk not after the flesh, but after the spirit. S. john saith, 1. Epistle, cha. 3. Ye know that he was made manifest to take away our sins, & in him was no sin. Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not, he that sinneth hath not seen him, nor known him.  Ath. 
Then by that reason, ye would prove that all that believe in Christ are perfect without sin. I think all are sinners.  Zealot 
Whosoever is borne of God sinneth not. 1. john. 3. 9  Ath. 
Is there any man which can say that he is without sin?  Zealot. 
Not one which liveth in this flesh.  Ath. 
Then ye are contrary unto yourself: for even now ye said. That whosoever abideth in Christ sinneth not, and he which is borne of God sinneth not: and now ye confess that all are sinners so long as they live.  Zealot. 
I am not contrary unto myself but your blindness causeth ye for to think so. Look in the Epistle to the Romans Chapter 7. and there ye shall find how S. Paul coupleth both these things together in himself, which you judge to be so contrary, that by no means they may be found in one man together at one time. He confesseth that there was a law in his members, rebelling against the law of his mind, and leading him captive to the law of sin. And yet a little before in the same Chapter he saith, That he did not commit the evil, but sin which dwelled in him. The reason which he maketh is, that he did consent unto the law, and would have done the good, but he did the evil which he hated. To make the matter plain, thus it is. Saint Paul was regenerate, but yet not in full perfection, for the remnant of sin did abide in him: that which the part regenerate did, or coveted to do, or consented unto, that he saith he did: and that which the corruption which did still remain in him, forced him for to do, that he saith he did not, but sin which dwelled in him. He doth esteem himself in the part regenerate, he counteth the remnants of the old man, to be but as excrements, or as a dead carrion, which did abide in him, and annoy him. His delight and desire was upon the good, he hated the evil, and therefore when he did sin, because it was against his consent, and against his will, it was no obedience which he gave unto it: he did not therefore serve sin, neither did sin reign over him, but exercise a certain tyranny over him, which he could not speak of.  Ath. 
I know not what ye mean when ye have said what ye can, all must be sinners.  Zealot. 
Ye may very easily persuade me to believe that ye know not what I mean: If your five wits were fifteen, they would help nothing in this case. Because ye know not what this meaneth, ye know not what faith in Christ crucified meaneth, ye know not what repentance meaneth, ye can see no difference of sinners: all are sinners say you, and the death of Christ is that which saveth, not considering that the death of Christ first killeth those whom it maketh alive. For this cause men are greatly overshot oftentimes, when they come unto a sick man, they think if he say, I believe Christ died for my sins, and shed his blood for me, that then all is aswell as may be. If it were faith in deed in the blood of Christ, they must needs be in good case: for all that believe in him, shallbe saved. But they stay upon a bare fantasy, which is a dead & weak faith, not making them to feel the power of the death of Christ. Ignorance is so deeply settled in men's minds, that let a man be never so wicked, never so far from true knowledge of God, if he can make but some general confession, they never look further. And because they see almost all, (howsoever they live) find this, it maketh them also to be careless, and never for to think of the new birth, of which Christ speaketh, when he sayeth unto Nicodemus: except a man be borne again, he cannot see the kingdom of God: This new birth is shut out at the doors, & therefore no doubt God doth shut them out of his kingdom which make no account of it.  Ath. 
Make yourself never so skilful, yet ye cannot tell which man God saveth and which he condemneth.  Zealot. 
It is not the will of God, that we should take upon us for to pronounce upon any man, and to say he is damned: because we must leave the secret counsel of God unto himself, who is not bound unto us, to give any account of his doings. But I pray ye let us a little consider how this headless bolt of yours is shot forth against true godliness. Thus you reason, no man can tell who are saved, and who are damned, therefore we are not for to care for trial of our faith and repentance: and that therefore the rules which are given in the word of God in these points are nothing worth. Every man may search and know in himself, whether he be in good case or not: and we ought every one for to try ourselves by that which the word teacheth so plentifully. I would wish ye to consider what the cause is why the greatest multitude go to destruction: even because they know not these things, & therefore see not the great danger which they be in, but can boldly bear themselves in hand that they shall do well enough. Many do laugh even in the midst of destruction, I mean that they can sport themselves even in doing those things which are their bane: and all because they trust to this belief which you brag of. For as on the one side true faith & true repentance, and conversion unto God, do salve all the sores and sicknesses of the soul: even so the common dead faith & counterfeit repentance may be called the devils plaster by which he doth a little in the top, for a time, salve the deep and deadly wounds, but they rankle within, and bring utter destruction. It is great pity that the word of God is not laid open in all places, that the people might come to the understanding of Christ and his power, in translating them out of the power of darkness, into his kingdom of light: which is wrought with great and diligent teaching, because men are made of a dull metal, and hard to conceive spiritual and heavenly things.  Ath. 
Well, I must leave ye now: ye have dealt very hardly with me: it were good that you Puritans should consider yourselves, & become better subjects to the Prince.  Zealot. 
I am like to have a very good farewell at your hands, for all my travel in teaching ye. But I looked for none other reward from ye: the black Moor can not change his hew, nor the Cat of the mountain her spots. I must suffer your reproach, for if they have called the good man of the house Beelzebub, how much more those which be of his household.  
Those which consider not themselves, are worse than mad men: I told ye before, that I do not allow that vice. For your slanderous accusation, I scorn and defy it: I may boldly take the Lord as a witness unto my conscience, that I do honour and obey the prince, and that I do condemn, hate, and accurse all disobedience unto the higher powers. But this hath ever been the ready way which the devil hath used for too bring those which fear God into hatred: by his instruments to charge them for too be enemies unto Princes. Christ was accused of treason, and condemned as an enemy to Caesar.  
Saint Paul divers times, was thought to be a man which did trouble the state. And whosoever shall read the ancient stories of the Church, shall find that this continued still from time to time.  Ath. 
Are not there many which count themselves very holy, & yet break the queens laws?  Zealot. 
What if it should fall out, as it doth fall out some times, that godly Princes command some thing which is contrary unto God's word, should we obey God or men? It is a very gross thing to think that a man for obeying God doth disobey his Prince. I would know this also, whether the breach of every particular law, doth make a man by and by an evil subject to his Prince? if it should, I think true subjects might soon be numbered. Likewise, I would know this, whether a man which is disobedient unto God and despiseth his laws, can for conscience sake be obedient unto his prince? Having been found unfaithful too God, shall he be judged faithful to men? And where as such as you cry out against those which profess the Gospel, that they break the Queen's laws, & are not the Queen's friends? I answer ye thus. I will adventure all that I have, that let proof be made, and those which have this most in their mo●thes the Queen's laws, the Queen's laws, as though they were altogether made of obedience, shallbe found to break two for their one, whom they accuse. If ye did cry out in this matter moved with a good conscience, then would ye be careful for to keep the laws yourselves, and if ye have care of princes laws, then would ye have care of God's laws.  Ath. 
Wherein can ye accuse me?  Zealot. 
I mean not to accuse you, but to speak that which I know by a number, they break her majesties laws in their apparel, in their meat, in their words being blasphemers and railers, in quarreling & fight, in dicing and carding, & bowilng, and in many such like. And because ye speak often of this, who are the Queen's friends? I say none but such as fear God: for the wicked & ungodly do provoke God unto anger against the realm, and do procure the destruction of it, God heareth the prayers of such as fear and love his laws, when they cry unto him for their Prince: therefore there can be no more utter enemies unto Princes, than such as are wicked against God. Now this is a very preposterous thing, that you which are rebels against God should bear men in hand that ye be the friends of the prince, & that such as are godly, they must be counted enemies.  Ath. 
I can say no more but god bless and save her.  Zealot. 
Amen. I pray God for his mercy sake grant, that we may be thankful for those exceeding great blessings which he hath by her heaped upon us, both for body & soul: and the Lord give us loving and obedient hearts towards her. And also I beseech God to keep her out of the hand of her enemies, to govern her with his blessed spirit, that she may exalt & magnify his glorious Gospel more and more, and repair the ruins of his Church & so glorify him in this world, that in the world to come she may be glorified for ever. Amen.  
FINIS.