Excommunicatio Excommunicata.  
OR, A CENSURE OF THE Presbyterian Censures And proceed in the Classis at MANCHESTER.  
Wherein is modestly examined what Ecclesiastical or civil Function they pretend for their new and usurped Power.  
In a Discourse betwixt the Ministers of that Classis, and some dissenting Christians.  
LONDON, Printed for Humphrey Moseley at the Sign of the Prince's Arms in St. Paul's Churchyard, 1658.   

THE PREFACE.  
IN such an age as this, when the heat of vain and unprofitable controversies has bred more scribblers, 
Plautus.  than a hot summer (in the Comedians simile) does flies, it might seem more rational, according to Solomon's rule, for prudent men to keep silence, then to vex themselves and disquiet others with such empty discourses, as rather enlarge then compose the differences of God's people. It was a sad age, that of Domitian, of which the Historian affirmeth, 
Tacitus.  that then Inertia pro sapientiâ erat, Ignorance was the best knowledge, laziness and servility was the best diligence; and we could wish this age did not too much resemble that: But when we see every Marsyas with an old Pipe of Minerva's, dares contend with Apollo; that men of low and cheap abilities, are too loud and too hard for men of the choicest and best design, certainly Inertia pro sapientia erit, He's the best Orator that dwells in silence, and he's the wisest man that keeps the privacy and recluseness of his own ville. 
Appion.  Hannibal once told Scipio, that it had been better both for Rome and Carthage, if both of them had been contented within their own bounds; and possibly it had been more honourable both for our brethren of the Presbytery, and ourselves, had we made our lists more private, and played our prizes only behind the Curtains, for so we had confined and determined our ignorance to our own sphere, and our defects had been visible to no eyes but our own. 
Plutarch.  But as Antalcidas objected to Agesilans, The Spartans' have made the Thebans fight whether they would or no; the exasperations and bitterness of our brethren, 
Pliny.  have lent cowards courage, and provoked us to combat whether we would or no; Miserum est pati nec licere quert; 'Tis a hard case to be hurt, and to have our mouths stopped; to suffer, and to be obliged not to complain; Qui unam patitur iujuriam invitat aliam; 
Seneca.  'Tis a certain rule with the men of this persuasion. If you take a blow from them on one cheek, you cannot be Christians in their Calendar unless you turn the other also. We had well hoped, that what Tully notes to be the eloquence of Atticus, Respondere sciat me sibi dum taceo, our silence and our patience might have been good Orators for us to have answered the pretensions of their power, the disguises of their popular discourses, and the harsh proceed towards us but the more we suffered, they triumphed the more; and because it was our judgement and choice to dwell in silence; they thought we either could not or durst not speak. But nemo nobis amicis uti potest & Adulatoribus. They shall find we are their friends, but not their Parasites; we will speak that truth which we understand, beseech the good spirit to lead them and us into all truth; and in this mean and inconsiderable service, we appeal to the 1000 witnesses within us, that we speak nothing out of pride or envy, or with unchristian reflections upon our sufferings; but with a hearty desire of peace, that they or we may be convinced, and at last meet by a unity of the spirit in the bond of peace.  
We shall not present the Rooms and model of the whole house in the Porch, yet we shall preface a recital of those grievances, which made us open our mouths in this discourse, Ne extorqueretur nobis causa Lucii Cottae patrocinio, lest we might seem to fear the Giant of Presbytery, and to think it were only that Palladium that would preserve the City of God.  
About 7 months since, the Classis of Manchester published their Breviates or censures, against all that came not in to them for trial and examination, wherein they go to the high ways, and compel all to come in and give submission to their Government, by subjecting themselves to examination by the Ministers and Elders, not only such as may be suspected to be ignorant or scandalous, but all, of all elevations, of all judgements, must come under the Inquisition, not so much we fear to fit them for the Sacrament, as to teach them obedience, that they may know themselves, 
Tacitus.  as Tiberius said of the Senate, that they are homines ad servitutem nati, to owe an obedience to their new Masters, which they must pay under the grand penalties of suspension and excommunication.  
I answer to these, Bruta fulmina, we with all meekness and humility sent them one single sheet of paper, desiring satisfaction in some things wherein our reason and religion obliged us to be of a different judgement from them; This one sheet they returned in seven, an answer long enough, if it be sound enough.  
To satisfy us in our scruples, and in their proceed, they pretend for what they do, both an Ecclesiastical and civil function, a Commission from Christ and the State also: But that maxim of the ancient will here be found true 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, Our own Laws built upon passion and interest, are commonly lawless; It is apparent to us, that their new Lights have no light from Antiquity or primitive forms; that their new Rules have no establishment, either by the Laws of the Christian Church, or the Laws of this Land. St. Jerom said of Origen, That ingenii sui acumina putat ecclesia esse Sacramenta, an imagination sure of our Presbyters, that the placita of their own wills must pass for civil and divine constitutions. We wonder that men pretending to Learning and Religion, should not only call in the Lord of truth to abett the fancies of men, but should also pretend to encouragement and Commissions from the State to second their prevarications.  
It hath pleased his Highness in his wisdom and clemency, to secure all godly and peaceable men professing Jesus Christ, from those Ordinances which the rigour of Presbytery had mounted against them; but where he gives the least encouragement for this power usurped by them, we find not; and therefore we think 'tis friendly advice, that they take heed lest their unguided zeal or interest precipitate them into a praemunire, since under colour of Authority, they have made Laws and Canons, and published them openly in the Church for all to obey upon pain of excommunication, not only against all the ancient known Laws of elder date, but also contrary to the present establishment and the Magistracy under which we now live.  
'Tis a trouble to us, to hear them cry out against Prelacy and Episcopacy, as only an artificial and political device to Lord it over God's inheritance, whereas indeed their little fingers are heavier than the Prelate's loins; though they tell us their way is a friendly, meek, and social way, we find it not; they make us only as Publicans and Heathens; it should seem that all that they intended in the change of Church-Government, was only to slice the Diocesan into Parochial Bishops; and with him in Lucian, To cut out the old useless Moons into fine new Stars, every one of which claim the same influence and dominion over the people which the Prelates did.  
'Tis a trouble to us, to hear them inveigh against Heretics, and Schismatics, against the Novatian and Donatists of old, when they walk in their steps, maintain their principles, and espouse their quarrels. We are told by the Church Historians, That the doctrine against mixt-communion, was a brat begotten by Novatus, nursed up by Lucifer and Audius, but it grew not till Donatus became its foster-Father, than indeed it flourished and spread amain, till St. Austin by his judicious and clear opposition did banish it, that, and the subsequent Ages; the Anabaptists of the last age called it back into Germany, Quod aruit in se refloruit in illis; they grafted upon the old stock, and wanted nothing of the Donatists but to be called so. Now amongst other of their dangerous and erroneous principles, Bullinger notes this for one of the chief, De doctrinâ, caenae scrupulose quaerunt Anabaptistae, quorum causâ caena dominica sit instituta. They were nice and scrupulous, and inquisitive concerning the Lord's Supper, concluding it was only to be given to the Saints, and concluding the Saints to their own folds.  
This is the direct practice of the Scottish and English Presbytery; because the Parliament formerly, and now his Highness, in their wisdom and prudence have so blunted the edge of their secular power, that they cannot hurt us with that, they fly to their religious shifts, and what David said of Goliah's sword, surely they say of the holy Sacrament, There's none like unto that; no engine so likely to teach us obedience, and to give them the sovereignty as that. They impale the supper of Christ to their own enclosures, and as absolute Judges of all communicants, keep back all persons that have not their Shiboleths ready, that will not fall down and worship that Idol which they have set up. The Egyptians were hard Taskmasters, to expect the children of Israel should make Bricks, and make straw too, to require the same number of bricks without materials to make them of: this is something like the severity of our new Masters, they censure for not doing that which they render to us impossible: If we come not to the Lords Supper, we must be excommunicate; and they will not permit us to come, because we are ignorant, or scandalous, or profane; and 'tis proof enough we are so, because we are too stout to fall down and worship their imaginations.  
'tis a trouble to us, that men who impropriate to themselves the name of Saints, and would have the world to think them the only Christians, should be so far from that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, that meekness and sweetness of the Gospel, that they are still of the old legal spirit, to eradicate and destroy all that are not of their way: Instead of sweetening and endearing the spirits of men, that they may come to the knowledge of the truth and be saved, they irritate and embitter them by their two bold judging in private, and by their fierce and severe censures in public, as if indeed it were their work to deliver them up unto Satan.  
These things have forced us contrary to our own dispositions and inclinations, to appear in public, nor only for our own vindication, but in defence of Ecclesiastical and civil constitutions, well hoping that these mean endeavours will encourage some worthy and learned Champions to take up Arms for the defence of that cause which we love: what we have done, quale quale sit, what ever it be, inasmuch as in the sincerity of our hearts we profess 'tis done, sine ullo studio contentionis, without any pleasure or delight in contention, but only for the love of truth, we hope our good God will give it a more gracious success, and good men will give it a more charitable reception.   

Errata sic Corrigenda.  
PAge 81. line 25. for whereas, read whereat. p. 82 l. 2 these, r. those. p. 83 l. 10 Answer as it is to, r. Answer it is to be. ibid. l. 16 pray, r. pay. p. 84 l. 32 See, r. So. p. 85 l. unaninous, r. unanimous. p. 87 l. 24 referring, r. restoring. p. 88 l. 13. examination, r. excommunication. Ih the Preface, p. 3. l. 30. for I, r. In.   

At the first Class at Manchester Septem. 8th 1657.  
IN pursuance of an Order of the last Provincial, the first Class doth humbly represent to this Assembly their apprehensions in the case to them propounded in a draught prepared for the several Congregations belonging to their own Association, if it shall be approved of by this Assembly, and which they do wholly submit to their Judgements.  
It being represented to this Class, and much complained of, and offence being taken, That in the several Congregations, (if not all) belonging to the Association, there are many persons of all sorts, that are members of Congregations, and publicly enjoy several privileges; as, the hearing of the Word, prayers of the Church, and baptising of their children; and satisfaction for injuries done unto them, That yet live in a total and sinful neglect of the Lords Supper, that are scandalous and offensive in their lives, drunkards, unclean persons, swearers, Sabbath-breakers, neglecters of Family-duties, that will not subject themselves to the present government of the Church, but live as lawless persons, out of their rank and order, and there are sundry that are grossly ignorant in the main points of Christian Religion. These are to give notice, that this Class, laying these things to heart, and much grieved for them, do publish and make known;  
1. That every Minister belonging to this Association, shall set apart one or two days, or more of the week days, in every month, for the catechising of the several families belonging to their respective Congregations; and for the information of the ignorant in those families, and that the families to be catechised on each of such days, set apart for that purpose, have notice the Lords day before, to meet the Ministers either at the Church or Chappel, or the Minister's house, or some other house within the Congregation, that may be convenient for the neighbouring families to meet at, that shall be appointed for such a day, as may be judged meetest by the several Ministers.  
2. That notice shall be taken of all persons that forsake the public Assemblies of the Saints, and constantly turn their backs of the Sacrament of the Lords Supper.  
3. That like notice shall be taken of all scandalous persons.  
4. That they shall be privately admonished, according to the order prescribed by Christ, Mat. 18. once or twice, to see if they will reform; and that the Minister, when he catechizeth the several families, shall exhort such persons in them as he finds to be of a competent knowledge, and are blameless in life, that they present themselves to the Eldership, that they may be admitted to the Lords Supper.  
5. That if they will neither hearken to private admonition, nor admonition of the Eldership, their names shall be published openly in the several Congregations, and they warned before all to reform.  
6. That if after all this they shall continue obstinate, they shall be cast out, and excommunicated.  
These things this Class thought fit to give public notice of, being very sensible, that, for the want of the vigorous exercise of Church discipline, ignorance, Atheism, and licentiousness grows upon us, to the great dishonour of God, scandal of Religion, the hazard and undoing of many precious souls, and the laying a blot on several Congregations; and therefore they are resolved, (seeing themselves necessitated, to this severity of discipline, for the freeing themselves from the great guilt of neglect of their own duty, that otherwise they shall be under) to make use of that power that Christ hath committed to them, for edification, and not for destruction; although it would be their far greater joy, that there might not be occasion of using sharpness: and therefore they do earnestly in the bowels of Jesus Christ beseech all those that are ignorant, that they would apply themselves diligently to the use of all public and private means for their information, submitting themselves with all readiness to be instructed; and to consider, that without knowledge the mind cannot be good: and they do also in the name of Jesus Christ, exhort and warn all such as live scandalously, and in the practice of open sins, that they break off their iniquities by repentance, and turn unto God speedily with their whole heart, that they neither incur the censure of being cast out of the Church here, nor by continuing in their sinful course, be kept for ever entering into the kingdom of Heaven hereafter.  
And touching such as turn their backs of the Lords Supper constantly, this Class doth wish them seriously, to consider what an account they will be able to give unto Jesus Christ, for their living in the daily neglect of an ordinance that is so exceeding necessary for their own comfort and growth in grace; and that they would lay aside all prejudice, whatever it is that hinders, and submit themselves unto wholesome doctrine, for their own good, as this Class hath been ready on their part to express all tenderness toward the weak, and a willingness to condescend to the meanest, for the removing all occasions of stumbling, so far as lies in their power. And yet, considering the fearful danger that all such do lay themselves open unto, that shall eat and drink the Body and Blood of the Lord unworthily, they do warn whosoever comes to the Lords Table, to take special care so often as they come, to examine themselves, lest they eat and drink their own damnation.  
But because the exercise of Church discipline must begin at private persons, and that if they neglect their duty of watching over, and admonishing one another, and bringing complaints to the Eldership as there is occasion, little or nothing can be done for the thorough reformation of the several Congregations; this Class doth therefore warn all and every of the members belonging unto them, to consider the great guilt they will lie under, if they through their neglect, obstruct so needful and necessary a work, and doth expect therefore in all faithfulness, laying aside all partiality, slavishness, and self-respects, they should address themselves to the discharge of their duties, that if any walk disorderly, and will not be reclaimed by private admonition, they making complaint thereof to the Eldership, course may be taken for excommunicating of the obstinate, and thereby purging out the old leven, to the glory of God, the delivering their own souls from that guilt they will otherwise lie under, the preserving the Ordinances from profanation, and the rest of the lump from being levened, the stopping of the mouths of such as seek occasion against us, and finally the everlasting welfare and salvation of the souls of those that go astray.  
By the Provincial Assembly at Preston, Octob. 6. 1657. RICHARD HEYRICKE Moderator pro tempore. This Presentation is approved by the Provincial Assembly, 

THOMAS JOHNSON, Moderator.  
EDWARD GEE, Scribe.     

To the Eldership of the several congregations belonging to the Association of the First Class at Manchester, within the Province of Lancaster; These.  
Give us leave to salute you, in your own Terms.  
WE have seen and seriously weighed that paper draught, Entitled A presentation of the first Class at Manchester, dated the 8. of Sept. 1657. confirmed by the Provincial Assembly at Preston, Octob. 6. and published at Manchester Church the 22. of Nou. in the aforesaid year: and do publish this our sense, and Apprehension of it, as far as is plain to us, not resting in the Judgement and determination of any General Council contrary thereunto (if any such should be) much less to one of your Provincial Assemblies; Though you seem to submit to your Provincial, what you will hardly grant to a General Council: In which we descent from you; Though in other things we shall join, as first.  
1. We join with you, in a deep sense of the several gross sins and errors of the times, desiring earnestly to mourn, first for our own, next for the sins of others of our Christian Brethren, and fellow members of that Church, whereof Christ is the Head: We are grieved together with you, for the Scandalous and offensive lives of such as live in drunkeness, uncleaness, swearing, profanation of the Sabbath, etc.  
2. We are also sensible with you, that there are sundry persons, grossly ignorant, in the main points of Christian Religion.  
3. You with us again (we hope) are sensible and grieved (though you do not at all mention them) for the gross errors in judgement, and the damnable Doctrine of many, who have rend themselves into as many several heresies, as they have into Sects and Schisms.  
Thus far we agree, nay more, touching the way of informing the ignorant, and reforming the wicked and erroneous, we shall not much dissent.  
1. And first for the information and instruction of the ignorant, by way of Catechising, before they be admitted to the Sacrament; The course by you published (provided it be in public) little differeth from the order prescribed by the Church of England, and other reformed Churches abroad, before any be admitted to the Sacrament of the Lords supper.  
2. For those who err so grossly, whether in Doctrinals, or points of discipline, thereby renting from a true constituted Church: Though you speak nothing either of their sin or punishment, yet we hope, you with us do hold, That the Churches lawful Pastors, have the power of the Keys committed to them, to excommunicate such offenders.  
3. For such as are scandalous and wicked in their lives; Admonition, private and public, is to be observed according to Christ's rule Mat. 18. but if they still continue, and will not reform, the Churches lawful Pastors have power to excommunicate such.  
Thus far we accord in judgement, touching the way of informing the ignorant, and reforming wicked persons, and schismatical; which course is so fully warranted by the Word of God, and the constant practice of the Catholic Church, that we are not so wavering and unsettled in our apprehensions of the case, as to submit either it or them, either wholly or in part, to the contrary judgement and determination of a General Council of the Eastern or Western Churches; much less, to a new termed Provincial Assembly at Preston, wherein we not little differ from you.  
Other parts of your Paper are full of darkness, to which we cannot so fully assent, till further explicated and unfolded by you. For,  
1. Whereas you say, That in the several congregations (if not in all) belonging to this Association, there are many persons of all sorts that are members of congregations, etc. you seem to hint, that though your grief may be general (as ours) for all offenders, yet your censures extend only to those who have admitted themselves members of some Congregation within your Association, and yet live inordinately, and will not be admonished: If so, than we who never were any members or associates of yours, are not within the verge and compass of your Presbyterian discipline; for what have you to do to judge those that are without?  
2. But whereas your complaint, and offence taken, is, That many there are of all sorts, who will not submit themselves to the present Government of the Church, but live like lawless persons out of their rank and order.  
If by the present Government of the Church, you mean your own (as may strongly be conjectured you do) then are we also comprehended therein, and must fall within your censure, and not only we, but all Papists, Anabaptists, and all other, of what Profession, and Religion soever, who live within the Parish, must be taken for members of some one Congregation within your Association, and so driven into the common fold of Presbytery, and be subject to your Government: And this (as we suppose) is the chief design of you, in this, as in other transactions of yours, to subject all to your Government, which you garnish over with the specious title, of Christ's Government, Throne, and Sceptre. Presbytery is the main thing driven at here; and however she cometh ushered in with a Godly pretence of sorrow, for the sins and ignorance of the times, and a duty incumbent upon you, to exercise the power which Christ hath committed to you, for edification, and not for destruction; yet these are but as so many waste papers wherein Presbytery is wrapped, to make it look more handsomely, and pass more currently; but beware we must, for latet anguis in Herbâ.  
Object. But you say, For want of the vigorous exercise of this Ecclesiastical discipline, ignorance, Atheism, and Licentiousness grows upon us, and men live as lawless persons, out of their rank and order, because not subject to your present Government.  
Sol. We pray for the establishment of such Church Government, throughout his Highness' Dominions, as is consonant to the will of God, and Universal practice of primitive Churches, that Ecclesiastical discipline may be exercised, in the hands of them, to whom it was committed by Christ, and left by him, to be transferred from hand to hand to the end of the World; and shall readily join with you in humble addresses, to his Highness, and his great Council, for the establishment of such a Church Government.  
In the mean time though there may be such, who (as you say) live as lawless persons, out of their rank and order, yet are they subject to law, and therefore subject to punishment, for though your Ecclesiastical sword cannot take hold on them, the civil sword doth reach them.  
Your Class may do well then not to contemn (as in charity we hope you do not) the authority of the civil Magistrate, but in stead of warning all and every member belonging to them, to complain to the Eldership, of those that walk disorderly, and will not be reclaimed, to the end they may excommunicate them, That they exhort them to complain to the civil Magistrate, whose sword of Justice is sharper and longer, and likely to work a greater reformation in the lives, and manners of men, by a corporal and pecuniary Mulct, than any sword of excommunication or other Church censure your Eldership can any way pretend unto;  
There are other parts of your paper do remain likewise dark, which we desire may be made plain unto us; for whereas you say,  
There are many persons of all sorts, etc. That will not submit themselves to the present Government of the Church, but live as lawless persons, out of their rank and order: Our Quaeres thereupon are;  
1. Why Government in singulari? is there no Ecclesiastical Government but yours? may not another Church have its Government different from yours, yet not different from that which Christ hath prescribed in his Word? Calvin saith, yea; Scimus enim unicuique Ecclesiae, etc. And accordingly there are other Churches in England different in Government from yours, and as good as yours.  
But if you say yours is the Government, (〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉) by way of eminency, as Christ's own Government more immediately, and jure divino, which you so much defend, then why (the present) is there no present Government in any Church or Assembly of Saints, but where your discipline is erected? Are all the rest at present without Government? or where hath yours been this 1500. years passed till this present? Hath Antichristianism so overspread the face of the Church that Christ's own Government could never get footing till this present? But now subjection is required thereto of all, yet many of all sorts will not subject, but live as lawless persons, out of their rank and order.  
Our next Quaere is;  
What? must all those that observe not your ranks and orders, subject not themselves to your present Government, be taken for lawless persons, out of their rank and order? Yea; for so this close connexion of yours seems to import, (viz.) many who do not subject but live, etc.  
In your paper you further proceed, and make it an order, That notice shall be taken of all persons, that forsake the public assembly of Saints.  
We would gladly know how far you extend this Saintship, this Church and assembly of Saints, if to your own Church only, and such as subject themselves to your Government; then S. Augustine's Answer against the Donatists, who would not acknowledge a Church in the World but amongst themselves, may also be yours, O Impudentem Vocem! (saith he) Illa non est, Quia tu in illa non es: Vide nè tu ideo non sis, nam illa erit etsi tu non sis.  
But if your charity reach further, then to your own assemblies, than you make lawless persons, such as will not subject themselves to your Government, Saints, and members at least of the invisible Triumphant Church, though none of your present visible militant Church; and then your charity over reacheth.  
Again, we are unsatisfied in the Word (Public) the public assemblies of the Saints, What? do not private assemblies please you? We presume you are not against private meetings, your own practice speaks the contrary? But you will bind all (notwithstanding your private Assemblies) to frequent your public also, other ways they shall be taken notice of: What? though they cannot submit to your Government? Leave you no room for tender consciences? The Laws of the Land have otherways provided: And if you, under colour of authority, will make Laws and Edicts, and publish them openly in the Church, for all to obey, upon pain of excommunication, contrary to the Laws in force, whether you do it in contempt of the civil power, or through ignorance of the Laws; which later is rather to be supposed, in a charitable and favourable construction, yet in what sense soever it be taken, we much question, and it concerns you to look to it, whether you have not run yourselves into a praemunire.  
Again, whereas you say, That like notice shall be taken of all scandalous persons. Our next Quaere is; Whether those that forsake the public Assemblies of Saints in the 2d order, may not be taken for scandalous, and so comprehended in this 3d. If so, Quare oneramini ritibus? why do you lengthen out your paper, and burden us with traditions, in multiplying of orders sine necessitate ad Arthritim usque?  
After the 2d and 3d orders against those that forsake the public Assemblies of Saints, and such as are scandalous, comes in a fourth, touching the Catechumenists in the first order mentioned; (viz.) That the Minister when he Catechizeth the several Families, shall exhort such persons in them as he finds, be of competent knowledge, and are blameless in life, that they present themselves to the Eldership, that they may be admitted to the Sacrament of the Lord supper: But what if they will not present themselves before the Eldership? The Minister must exhort and admonish them. What if still they refuse? Their names shall be published openly in the several congregations, and they warned before all to reform. That's the 9th. order. Mark! Men of blameless life and knowledge must be warned before all to reform.  
But what if after all this they will not reform, but continue obstinate? Then no admission to the Sacrament; that's employed in the fourth order; There's their Excommunicatio minor: But that's not all, a higher censure yet; They shall be cast out, and excommunicated; So saith the 6th and last order, the great Excommunication, which casteth out of the Church also, and judgeth them no better, than Heathens, and Publicans, notwithstanding all their piety and knowledge.  
So that, in brief, all wilfully ignorant and Scandalous are to be excommunicated; and not only they, but the knowing, and blameless of life, if they present not themselves to the Eldership. These things premised, lying sadly on our spirits and consciences, as not sound and orthodox, for which we cannot so readily join with you, till further satisfaction be given us, and which the publisher of your Paper promised should be given to all that did desire, We therefore thought fit to signify these our scruples to you, and shall wait earnestly for a speedy satisfaction in the particulars, remaining  
Your Brethren desirous of Truth, Unity and Peace in the Church. 

Isaac Allen.  
Jo: Pollett.  
Tho: Prestwich.  
Leonard Egerton.  
Ferdinando Stanley.  
etc.     

At Manchester, Feb. 23. 1657. The Answer of the First Classis within the Province of Lancaster, unto a Paper presented unto them at their Classical meeting, Jan. 12. 1657. by certain Gentlemen, subscribed by them and sundry others within the bounds of this Association.  
Gentlemen,  
WE have perused your Paper, and do find in it sundry mistakes, and some manifest wrest of our plain meaning, in that Paper of ours, which was published in our several Congregations: And we are also sensible of the sharp reflections in it, upon the Government, that is committed to our mannagement, and on ourselves. But we shall not go about to answer you in that kind: and therefore laying aside animosities, and putting away gall and bitterness, in the spirit of love and meekness, however in faithfulness and plainness, we shall endeavour to show you your Errors and rectify your mistakes. And we do thus far acknowledge your fair dealing, (for which we give you hearty thanks) that you address yourselves unto us, giving us thereby the opportunity, both to vindicate ourselves, and give you a right understanding of the matters wherein you are mistaken.  
Our leisure will not permit us to spend time about impertinencies; but yet, that you may not conceive we are destitute of Civil Authority, (which you in your Paper mind us not to contemn, and we ourselves do professedly testify all due respects unto, as in duty we are bound) we entreat you to take notice, That the Lords and Commons assembled in Parliament having resolved to establish the Presbyterian Government throughout the Kingdom of England and Dominion of Wales, did August 19 1645. publish their directions, after advice had with the Assembly of Divines, for the electing and choosing of ruling Elders in all the Congregations, and in the Classical Assemblies for the Cities of London and Westminster, and the several Counties of the Kingdom, for the speedy settling of the Presbyterian Government. In these directions, (as may be seen pag. 8.) they did ordain, That in the several Counties certain persons, Ministers and others, should be appointed by authority of Parliament, who should consider, how the several Counties respectively might be most conveniently divided into distinct Classical Presbyteries; and what Ministers and others were fit to be of each Classis. And that they should accordingly make such division and nomination of persons for each Classical Presbytery. Which divisions, and persons so named for every division, the appointed should be certified up to the Parliament. And they further appointed, That the said several Classes respectively being approved by Parliament, within their several precincts should have power to constitute Congregational Elderships.  
According to these directions, the persons by them appointed for this County met, and did consider, how it might be most conveniently divided into distinct Classical Presbyteries, and what Ministers and others were fit to be of each Classis: and also made such a division and nomination accordingly, and certified the same up to the Parliament; All which being done according to their directions and appointment, It was resolved by the Lords and Commons assembled in Parliament, Oct. 2. 1646. That they did approve of the division of the County of Lancaster into nine Classical Presbyteries represented from the said County. And it was further resolved, That the said Houses did approve of the Ministers and other persons represented from the County of Lancaster, as fit to be of the several and respective Classes, into which the said County was divided. Which division of this County into nine Classical Presbyteries, and the approval thereof by the said Lords and Commons was forthwith printed and published. In this division so made and approved, The first Classis is to contain Manchester Parish, Prestwich Parish, Oldham Parish, Flixton Parish, Eccles Parish, and Ashton under-line Parish, as by what was then printed, and is yet extant, is to be seen. Further, we wish you to take notice, That in your forementioned Directions pag. 3. Direction 6. it is there thus ordained, That all Parishes and places whatsoever (as well privileged places and exempt Jurisdictions, as others) be brought under the government of Congregational, Classical, and National Assemblies. Provided, that the Chapels or places in the houses of the Peers of this Realm should continue free for the exercise of Divine Duties, to be performed according to the Directory. And also, that it was ordered by the Lords and Commons assembled in Parliament, Decemb. 21. 1646. That the several Classes in Lancashire should be one Province; As appears by their Order to that purpose. As there is also another Order of theirs of Octob. 16. 1648. enabling the several Classes within this Province to send their Delegates to meet in a Provincial Assembly in Preston, and appointing the time of their first meeting; the number of the Delegates, that were to be sent to the said Assembly; and the Quorum of the Assembly, according to the provision that had been made before by the Parliament, before any Provincial Assembly could by virtue of their Authority be enabled to act Provincially. By which account thus given it is manifest, That the setting up the Presbyterian Government in this County: The division of it into several Classes: The making of those Classes into a Province, and their Acting Provincially: As also the appointing this Classis to be the first, (that is, the first in regard of the number only, the account beginning here) was all done by Authority of Parliament. And that, when we call ourselves the first Classis within the Province of Lancaster, we are awarranted thereto by authority of Parliament. And so your Saluting us in our own terms, (which we gave not to ourselves, till the Parliament had first given them to us) will not seem strange to them, that then did, or now do, acknowledge that Authority and Power, which the Parliament exercised in those times. Especially considering there was nothing done since, either by that Parliament or any other, or by his Highness and the last Parliament, that takes from us what was then granted, and as we shall clear further anon.  
In your Preface to what in your Paper you have to say unto us, there is in the first place a mistake of that title, which was given by us unto ours; (which you call a Paper draught) for it was not by us entitled a Presentation (as you call it) but a Draught, that represented to the Provincial Assembly our apprehensions in a case by them propounded unto us; And was approved by the Provincial, under the Title of a Representation. But this perhaps was but the mistake of the Scribe, and we insist not on it.  
It is of greater weight and moment, to take notice of what you publish as your sense and apprehensions of it, (not resting in the judgement or determination of any general Council contrary thereunto) if any such should be, much less to one of our Provincial Assemblies. Although you tell us, we seem to submit to our Provincial, what we will hardly grant to a general Council; in which you profess to differ from us.  
We know very well, and have learned better from the Scriptures, then to resolve our Faith into the determination of any company of men on Earth whatsoever, or to build our Faith on the Judgement of Synods, Provincial or National; or of General Councils, that have been heretofore, or that may be hereafter. We are sure all men are fallible; and Faith, that is a sure and certain grace, must have a sure and certain Foundation, which is only the infallible and written Word of God. And if this only be your meaning, you have not us differing from you. But yet when we consider, That Synods and Councils, rightly constituted and regularly called, as they may be then of great use for light and guidance, so also that they are the Ordinance of God, and by him invested with authority, and so have an authoritative Judgement belonging to them, and which is not in private persons, we dare not contemn them, nor speak slightly of them. And seeing the higher Assemblies have greater Authority than the lower, (as there is more power in the whole, then in the part; in the whole body, then in any one, or some members) and that, however we are well enough satisfied, that we have the Authority of a Class, yet we are under the Authority of the Provincial Assembly; We see not wherein we offended, that we submitted our apprehensions, in the Case propounded by that Assembly unto us, unto their Judgement. There is concerning matters of Religion Judicium Privatum, or a Private Judgement; and this belongs to all Christians, who are to fee with their own eyes, and judge, concerning what is necessary for them to know and believe in matters of this nature. This Judgement, as there is good reason why we should allow it to ourselves, so we should Lord it over men's consciences, if we should deny it to any. There is also Judicium Publicum & Authoritativum, A Public and an Authoritative Judgement; and this is either Concional, which belongs to every lawful Minister (to whom the Key of Doctrine is committed) by himself singly: or else it is Juridical, and this belongs to Synods and Councils, who having the Key of Discipline, are invested with authority to inquire into, try, examine, censure and judge of matters of Doctrine and Discipline authoritatively, (although they be tied to the rule of God's Word in such proceed, as Judges to the Law) & likewise to censure offenders according to their merit, when such cases are regularly and orderly brought before them. And in this sense it was, that we submitted our apprehensions in the Paper published to the Judgement of the Provincial Assembly. And we believe, when the Apostle tells us, 1. Cor. 14.32. That the spirits of the Prophets are subject to the Prophets: And our Saviour Christ saith, Mat. 18. Tell the Church. And when we consider, what was practised by Paul and Barnabas, and certain others (who, upon occasion of a contest that arose in the Church at Antioch about a matter of Doctrine, were sent up from that Church to Jerusalem to the Apostles and Elders about that question) from these and other Scriptural grounds we had sufficient ground for so doing. We are sure also, That Whitaker de Conciliis questione quintâ, and Chamierus in his Panstratiâ de oecumenico. Pontifice, ubi de Authoritate Papae in Ecclesiâ, cap. 13. & cap. 14. And generally all our Protestant Divines against the Papists, alleging the Texts  and others, do prove abundantly, that in the sense declared, the Pope is to be subject to a general Council, wherein also sundry Papists do concur with them. And questionless, if in the time of Augustine (who was no contemner of Synods & Councils) any in this sense had declared, that they would not have submitted their apprehensions to their judgement, he would have cried out against them as well as against the Donatists, O impudentem vocem! And we hope, when you have weighed the matter better, you will not in this sense see any reason to refuse to submit either your sense and apprehensions of our Paper, or what you may publish as your own private Judgements in other matters about Religion, to the Judgement of a general Council, supposing it might be had.  
We have now done with your Preface, and come to the matter itself, wherein you profess,  
(1.) To join with us in a deep sense of the several gross sins and errors of the times, desiring earnestly to mourn first for your own sins, next for the sins of others, etc. And here we do hearty pray, that neither we nor you may any of us condemn ourselves, either by professing our sorrow, for what sins we may practise, or by refusing to help forward the good that we profess to allow of, but may testify the truth of our sorrow for our own and other men's sins, by suitable endeavours to reform what is amiss in ourselves, and helping forward every one in his place the reformation of others.  
(2.) In the next place, you say, You are also sensible with us, that there are sundry persons grossly ignorant in the main points of Christian Religion. And if so, we hope you will acknowledge, that where, after the enjoying of plenty of Preaching and the public Catechising, that hath been used for many years together, (and much more where there hath been less of this means) many continue grossly ignorant in the main points of Religion, it is at least not to be condemned in such Ministers, as shall be willing to take the pains by private Catechising to instruct such persons: This course being to the Ministers a matter of pains only; and that hereupon, where the public Catechising attains not its desired end, the private may be good and useful, that so poor souls perish not for lack of knowledge.  
(3.) Lastly You hope, That we with you are sensible and grieved, though, you say, we do not mention them, for the gross errors in judgement and damnable Doctrine of many, who have rend themselves into as many several Heresies, as they have into Sects and Schisms.  
You may perceive by the title of our Paper, that it was a representation of our apprehensions to the Provincial Assembly, in the Case to us propounded by the said Provincial, and what that was, we shall particularly declare anon, (although by what we say had been complained of, and represented unto us, it might be gathered) and therefore we were chief to apply ourselves to that, which was therein our main work and business. That the gross and damnable errors, that the looseness of these times have brought forth, are to be bewailed (if it were possible) with tears of blood, is most freely to be confessed. And whether we lay them not to heart in some poor measure, God the searcher of all hearts he knows; as what complaints have been made of these by the members of this Classis, both in their prayers and preaching, men can witness; and likewise what testimonies have been given to the truth of Jesus Christ, and against the errors of the times, subscribed with their hands and published to the world, though therein but concurring with the rest of their Reverend Brethren in this Province, in the Province of London, and other Counties of the Land, posterity may read, when we are in our graves. But as to the most of the Congregations belonging to this Classis, the great business to be looked after was the use of our best endeavours, for the informing of the ignorant, and the reforming of the scandalous, the numbers of these being great, and of those that are so grossly erroneous as to maintain damnable doctrines, and whereof you profess yourselves to be so sensible, very inconsiderable, in comparison of the former: and in sundry of our Congregations, if not in most, (blessed be God for it) not any at all, that we know of. And therefore there was not that reason to make any such express mention of these as of the former, although in our Paper we were not herein neither altogether silent, as will after appear.  
Having professed your agreement with us thus far, you go on to declare yourselves, That, touching the way of informing the ignorant, and reforming the wicked and erroneous, you shall not much dissent. And  
(1.) You say, For the Information and instruction of the ignorant by way of Catechising before they be admitted to the Sacrament, the course by us published (provided, you say, it be in public) little differeth from the Order prescribed by the Church of England and other Reformed Churches abroad, before any be admitted to the Sacrament of the Lords Supper.  
That all Children and others, (so many as it is fit to instruct after that manner) be publicly catechised, is that, which we hearty wish had been & were more generally practised in our own Church at home, as it is practised by the Reformed Churches abroad. And certainly, had the public catechising of Children and others been more generally and constantly practised, there had not been that cause to complain of the gross ignorance of sundry persons of ripe years, and some of them governor's of Families, as now there is. We do also understand you by what you do here express, that you judge it not meet, that the grossly ignorant should be admitted to the Lords Supper, in that you seem to approve of the practice of the Reformed Churches abroad, (as of our own at home) in taking course to inform the ignorant, before they admit them to the Sacrament of the Lords Supper; And therefore we see not how you can in reason deny, but there ought to be an examination and trial of all persons, before they be admitted to the Lords Supper, that so the grossly ignorant may not be admitted, as they might be, if all promiscuously were admitted without any trial at all.  
But whereas, in this concession about catechising, you have a Proviso, that it be in public, we do not see, why you should so limit it, if it be confessed, that it is necessary, that the ignorant should be informed, and that catechising is an useful means to attain that end. You know how it would dash sundry knowing persons to be catechised publicly in the Congregation. But as for those that are conscious to themselves, that they are very ignorant, if these should be called forth to public Catechising, it were more likely to drive them from the public Assembly, and so from the use of all means for their information, then be available to this end. As touching what was propounded by us in our paper, as the way for their information (though it was not intended for any such a purpose as to exclude public Catechising) it was done in way of condescension to the weakest, and to show our willingness to apply ourselves to any course, so we might be instrumental to bring poor dark and blind Souls to the knowledge of Christ, and which in our Judgement is more likely to be attained in many, as the case stands with them, in a more private way of Catechising in any of the ways propounded by us, then if we should Catechise all the several Families publicly before the whole congregation.  
(2) Touching those that err so grossly, whether in Doctrinals or points of discipline, thereby renting from a true constituted Church, you say, we speak nothing, either of their sin or punishment, yet you hope, we with you do hold, that the Churches lawful Pastors have the power of the keys committed to them, to excommunicate such offenders.  
We have given you the reason already, why we made not such express mention of these offenders, as of the former, although (as you will hereafter perceive) we are not wholly silent touching eirher the sin or punishment of these. Only at present, because you profess to allow of that previous course of admonition prescribed by Christ, in reference to the scandalous Mat. 18. before they be excommunicated, but here say nothing of any such course to be taken with the heretical or schismatical; (though we hope also of you, that you disallow it not) we shall briefly declare, what course is to be held by the rules of the Presbyterian Government, before the sentence of excommunication pass against these offenders, and whereof our paper was not silent. This Government, however it gives no toleration to any such errors, as subvert the faith; or any other errors, which overthrow the power of godliness; if the party, who holds them, spreads them, seeking to draw others after him, or to any such practices, as in their own nature manifestly subvert that order, Unity and Peace, which Christ hath established in his Church. These being offences censured by this Government, (and of which further afterward,) yet this Government prescribes the exercise of patience and long suffering (even toward those that do grossly err in Doctrine as well as toward those that are scandalous in life) in the use of all means for the convincing them of their errors; by reasoning with them out of the Scriptures: as we see was practised in the Synod, that was held at Jerusalem; and as we see the Fathers of the Nicene Council, did not disdain to reason and dispute with Arrius (though he denied the Deity of Christ) before they condemned him: And as also other Fathers did with other Heretics in the Synods, although oftentimes in vain. That so none might have any just cause to complain, that they were condemned, before they were fully heard. And as touching such as run into such practices, as in their own nature tend manifestly to the subverting of that order and unity which Christ hath established in the Church, it labours with these also in the use of all gentle means to reclaim them, and bring them back again to the Church they have rend themselves from, before it proceed to censure. As it doth also put a difference between the seducers, and ringleaders of a Sect, and those that are misled. Having respect not only to the nature of the offence, but also to the quality of the offender; and exerciseth patience and forbearance towards all, so long as there is any hope of reducing them by mild correction: Being ever more desireous to heal, then cut off any member. And thus having declared ourselves in this, we go an with you.  
(3) For you say; For such as are scandalous and wicked in their lives, admonition private and public is to be observed, according to Christ's rule Mat. 18. But if they still continue, and will not reform, the Churches lawful Pastors have power to excommunicate such.  
In this you fully come up to what we hold, as to the means, that is to be used for the reformation of these, and we are glad there is an agreement in judgement betwixt you and us thus far. Neither can we see how, upon this concession, you can in reason find fault with our proceed, if there should be occasion for our censuring any such persons, as for their notorious offences and their obstinacy therein, might justly merit the highest censure.  
For however, perhaps you may say, you stumble chiefly at this, that our ruling Elders (that in your judgement may be but mere Laymen) do join in the Government with us; yet we see not how this can be any just ground of scruple to any of you, who (if we mistake not) were all of you satisfied in your consciences touching the lawfulness of the late Government of Episcopacy, as it was then exercised, at least as to submission to it; and wherein High-Commissioners, Chancellors and Commissaries (that were as much Laymen then, as ruling Elders can be in your judgement now) had so great a share, as to suspend Ministers from the exercise of their Ministry, upon such complaints as, according to the orders, that were appointed in those days, they might take cognizance of, and so far, as to decree the sentence of excommunication against them and others, as there was occasion for it.  
But here we must yet further profess, we do not know, whom you mean by lawful Pastors, to whom you here grant the power of excommunication. 
Dr Hammond.  Some we know, there are, that would make the Diocesan Bishops the only Pastors of the Church, and that other Ministers do but officiate by deputation from them and under them. We hope you are not of the mind of these. For then, as the dissent in judgement betwixt you and us would be far greater, then as yet we apprehend it is; so hence it will follow, that, till Prelacy should be restored, there must not (if you would provide for the safety of the persons and estates of them that should manage the Government) be the dispencing of any Church censures at all. For you may easily know, that not only by Acts and Ordinances of Parliament before made for the abolishing of Archbishops and Bishops, etc. (and which are confirmed by the late humble Advice assented unto by his Highness' sect. 12.) the office and jurisdiction of Diocesan Bishops is taken away. But there is yet a further Bar put in against Prelacy in the 11. sect. of the aforesaid humble Advice; where it is expressly cautioned, (and we judge it was out of a conscientious mindfulness of what had been in those very terms covenanted against) that the liberty, that is granted to some, be not extended to Popery and Prelacy. And therefore if any Diocesan Bishop should exercise his jurisdiction, and excommunicate any person within this Land, wherein by Authority (as you may see afterward) there is also an appointment of another Government, we leave it to those, that are learned in the Law to determine, whether such Diocesan Bishops would not run themselves into a praemunire.  
But if you do not restrain lawful Pastors to these only, our doubt yet is, Whether you mean not only such Ministers, as were ordained by Diocesan Bishops, excluding those out of the number, that, since their being taken away, have been ordained by Presbyters only?  
If this be your sense, we shall only at present mind you, of what is published, to be the Judgement of Dr Usher late Primate of Ireland, in a Book lately put forth by Dr Bernard, Preacher to the Honourable Society of Grays-inn; and whom, though a stranger to us, and one of a different judgement from us in the point of Episcopacy, yet we reverence for his moderation and profession of his desires for peace, wishing that such, as do consent in substantials for matter of Doctrine, would consider of some conjunction in point of Discipline. That private interests and circumstantials might not keep them thus far asunder. 
* See pag. 14●. of his last Book.  In which wish as we do cordially join ourselves, so we hearty desire, that all godly and moderate spirited men throughout the Land would also close. But the book, which the said Doctor hath lately published, is entitled. The Judgement of the late Archbishop of Armagh and Primate of Ireland, etc. In this Book this Doctor tells us, that the late Primate in Answer to a letter of his (sent to him as it should seem for that purpose) declares his Judgement touching the ordination of the Ministry in the Reformed Churches in France and Holland. There he saith, that Episcopus & Presbyter gradu tantum differunt, non ordine. And consequently, that in places, where Bishops cannot be had, the ordination by Presbyters standeth valid. And in the close of his Answer about this point he saith; That for the testifiying of his Communion with the Churches (of the Low-Countryes) of whom he had spoken immediately before: and which he there professeth, He doth love and honour as true members of the Universal Church: (notwithstanding the difference, that was betwixt him and them about the point of Episcopacy) he doth profess, That with like affection he should receive the blessed Sacrament at the hands of the Dutch Ministers, if he were in Holland, as he should do at the hands of the French Ministers if, he were in Charenton. See pag. 125. and 126. Hence you may perceive, that the Judgement of Dr Usher was; That the Ordination of Presbyters, where Bishops cannot be had, standeth valid. And consequently, if you be of his opinion, (and you must have stronger reasons, than ever yet we have seen, to bear you out therein if you judge otherwise) they ought to be esteemed lawful Pastors, to whom you grant the power of Excommunication, Bishops being now taken away, and may not therefore ordain according to the present Laws of the Land. The said Dr Bernard hath some animadvertisements upon that Letter (in which Dr Usher doth deliver his judgement, as above said) and there shows, that he was not in this Judgement of his singular. He allegeth Dr Davenant, that pious and learned Bishop of Sarisbury, as consenting with him in it (in his determinations quaest. 42.) and produceth the principal of the Schooleman, Gulielmus Parisiensis, Gerson, Durand, etc. and declares it to be the General opinion of the Schoolmen; Episcopatum ut distinguitur à simplici sacerdotio non esse alium ordinem, etc. see pag. 130. of the aforenamed Book, as also pag. 131.132. Where the concurrence of Dr Davenant with Dr Usher in his judgement about this matter is declared more fully. He adds also others, as in special, Dr Richard Field in his learned Book of the Church lib. 3. cap. 39 and lib. 5. cap. 27. And also that Book entitled A defence of the Ordination of the Ministers of the Reformed Churches beyond the Seas, maintained by Archdeacon Mason against the Romanists. And further he saith; He hath been assured, it was not only the Judgement of Bishop Overall, but that he had a principal hand in it. He tell us, that the  Author produceth many testimonies; The Mr of the Sentences, and most of the Schoolmen, Bonaventure, Thomas Aquinas, Durand, Dominicus Soto, Richardus Armachanus, Tostatus, Alphonsus a Castro, Gerson, Petrus Canisius, to have affirmed the same; and at last quoteth Medina a principal Bishop of the Council of Trent, who affirmed, That Jerome, Ambrose, Augustine, Sedulius, Primasius, chrysostom, Theodoret, Theophylact were of the same judgement also. But you may see these things yourselves in Dr Bernard, pag. 132, 133, 134. We have been only at the pains to transcribe them.  
We could allege many more Testimonies to prove this: But we count these sufficient; and do allege these the rather, because brought by one that is of the same Judgement with you, as we suppose.  
But having declared how far you accord with us in Judgement, touching the way of informing the ignorant, and reforming the wicked persons, and schismatical, etc. you tell us; That you are not therein so wavering and unsettled in your apprehensions of the Case, as to submit either it or them, either wholly or in part, to the contrary Judgement and determination of a general Council of the Eastern and Western Churches, much less to a new termed Provincial Assembly at Preston; wherein you profess no little to differ from us.  
That, which we submitted wholly to the Judgement of the Provincial Assembly, was not, whether Catechising was a way appointed by God in his Word, for the information of the ignorant; but in what way of Catechising (as is expressed in our Paper) the ignorant in our Congregations, who never offered themselves unto the Sacrament, were most like to be brought to some measure of knowledge; and which is not a matter of Doctrine but of Order only. Neither was it by us submitted to that Assembly; whether the censures of the Church were the means appointed by Christ for the reforming of the scandalous? But whether it might not be meet pro hic & nunc, and as the present case stood, to apply the Censures? (and so put in practice at this time that, which in the General we were sufficiently assured from the word of Truth, was the way for their reformation) and with which we were both by God and Man entrusted to dispense unto those that were openly scandalous in our Congregations; However they contented themselves to live in the want of the Lords Supper, nor ever presented themselves to the Eldership to be admitted to it. And this (because merely circumstantial, as to the dispencing of the Censures at this time and to such Persons) we think herein we owed the Provincial Assembly (unto whose Authority we profess ourselves to be subject) so much respect and duty, as to submit our apprehensions in a Case of this nature (which they had propounded unto us to be seriously weighed, as they had done to the rest of the Classes within this Province) unto their Judgement, and to take their concurrent approval along with us, before we proceeded to practise in a matter of this weight. And yet we have declared before, That however we are not so wavering and unsettled in matters of faith, as to resolve our belief into the determination of Synods or Councils, believing no more, nor no otherwise, then as they determine: Yet that it is not out of the compass of the authority of a Synod to examine, try and authoritatively to censure Doctrines as well as matters of Discipline. And we think (how confident soever you may be of the soundness and orthodoxness of what in your Paper you propound in way of exception against any thing in ours) you have not such clear and inquestionable grounds from Scripture for the same, that you were to be accused of wavering or unsettledness, if you had submitted the same to have been examined and tried by a Provincial Assembly: and much less, if you could have had the opportunity of submitting it to the Censure of a General Council.  
But whereas mentioning our Provincial Assembly at Preston, you call it a new termed Provincial Assembly. If your meaning be, that the terming it a Provincial Assembly in stead of a Provincial Synod is a new term, than this is but only a Logomachia, and not much to be insisted on. Although we frequently call it a Provincial Synod as well as a Provincial Assembly. But if your meaning be; That it is a new termed Provincial Assembly at Preston. Because Provincial Synods or Assemblies have been held but lately at Preston, we see not (if Provincial Assemblies be warrantable, and have been of ancient use in the Church) that having been long in dis-use, they begin of late to be held at Preston, that can justly incur your censure. But if the Antiquity of such Assemblies be that you question: Then we refer you to what Dr Bernard in the Book of his above quoted, shows was the Judgement of Dr Usher (who is acknowledged by all that knew him, or are acquainted with his works, to have been a great Antiquary; however we allege him not, that you should build your faith upon his Testimony) and which we think may be sufficient to vindicate Provincial Assemblies in your thoughts from all suspicion of novelty. In that Book you have in the close of it proposals touching the Reduction of Episcopacy unto the form of Synodical Government received in the ancient Church. And it thus gins. By the Order of the Church of England, all Presbyters are charged to administer the Doctrine and Sacraments, and the Discipline of Christ, as the Lord hath commanded, and as this Realm hath received. And that they might the better understand, what the Lord hath commanded herein, The exhortation of Paul to the Elders of Ephesus Acts 20.28. is appointed to be read unto them at the time of their Ordination. A little after it is acknowledged, That Ignatius by Presbytery mentioned by Paul 1 Tim. 4.14. did understand the Community of the rest of the Presbyters or Elders, who then had a hand, not only in the delivery of the Doctrine and Sacraments, but also in the administration of the Discipline of Christ. And for further proof. Tertullian is alleged in his General Apology for Christians. Where he saith, that in the Church are used exhortations, chastisements and divine censure; For Judgement is given with great advice, as among those, who are certain, they are in the sight of God. And it is the chiefest foreshowing of the Judgement to come, if any man have so offended, that he be banished from the Communion of Prayer, and of the Assembly, and of all holy Fellowship. The Precedents, that bear rule therein, are certain approved Elders, who have obtained this honour, not by reward, but by good report. There also is further showed, That in matters of Ecclesiastical judicature, Cornelius Bishop of Rome used the received form of gathering together the Presbytery. And that Cyprian sufficiently declares of what Persons that consisted; When he wisheth him to read his Letter to the flourishing Clergy, which there did preside or rule with him. And further, That in the 4th Council of Carthage it was concluded. That the Bishop might hear no man's cause without the presence of the Clergy. And that otherwise the Bishop's sentence should be void, unless it were confirmed by the Clergy. And yet further. That this is found inserted into the Canons of Egbert (who was Archbishop of York in the Saxon times) and afterwards into the body of the Canon law itself. It is here also acknowledged, That in our Church, this kind of Presbyterian Government hath been much disused. Yet that it did profess, that every Pastor hath a right to rule the Church (from whence also the name of Rector was at first given unto him) and administer the Discipline of Christ, as well as to dispense the Doctrine and Sacraments, etc. By all which it is acknowledged, and also proved; That the form of Government by the united suffrages of the Clergy, is ancient: and which is there in express terms asserted; as it might be demonstrated by many more Testimonies, but that we conceive these already mentioned are sufficient, and being alleged by the aforementioned Author, As also evidencing what his own Judgement was in this point, may be more likely to sway with you (if in that there should be a dissent betwixt you and us) than any thing, that we could ourselves produce. But in this reduction of Episcopacy to the form of Synodical Government received in the ancient Church, there are proposals of Assemblies of Pastors within certain limited bounds. Which (saving that they are some of them somewhat larger than ours, which is but a circumstantial difference) do hold proportion with the Classical, Provincial, and National Assemblies, mentioned in the form of our Church Government. As also the times propounded there for their meeting, the power of these Assemblies, and what they were to have Cognizance of, and the subordination of the lesser to the greater, with liberty of Appeal, if need should require, and are the same in substance as with us. And all these were propounded, as the way of Government in the ancient Church, and in the year 1641. (after the troubles, that had risen in Scotland about Episcopacy and the Ceremonies, and before the setting up of the Presbyterian Government in this Land, had so much as fallen under debate in the Parliament, so far as ever we heard of) as an expedient to prevent the troubles, that did after arise in this Land about the matter of Church Government, being for the moderating of Episcopacy; That at that time was grown to that height, that it had quite taken away from the Pastors that rule, that of right did belong unto them; And for the Reduction of it to the ancient form of Synodical Government. And therefore in the Judgement of this learned and reverend Antiquary, our Provincial Assembly at Preston (where the Pastors of the Churches are members, as he acknowledgeth of right they ought to be in such Assemblies) would not have been accounted a new termed Provincial Assembly.  
But you go on and tell us. That other parts of our Paper are full of darkness, to which you say, you cannot so fully assent, till further explicated and unfolded by us.  
We cannot apprehend any such darkness in our Paper, as you speak of. But yet because in yours, you question what authority we have from the civil Magistrate, for what we do, and likewise the extent of it: and your mistakes of our meaning may perhaps some of them arise from your unacquaintedness with the rule we walk by. Although we were not to be blamed for any mistakes, that might arise ab ignorantia juris (whether simple or affected, that we determine not, but leave you to examine;) Before we come to make Answer more particularly to what follows, we are willing to be at some pains to give you some further account of the power we are awarranted by the civil Authority, for to exercise. To what persons within our bounds it extends itself: and what some of those rules are, that are prescribed unto us by civil Authority, to walk by in the exercise of that power we are betrusted with.  
It is a general and common mistake amongst many, that the Presbyterian Government was established by the Parliament but for three years, and that therefore it is now expired and out of date. But if you peruse all that passed in Parliament touching it, no such matter will appear. The directions of the Lords and Commons Assembled in Parliament, after advice had with the Assembly of Divines, for the Electing and choosing Ruling Elders in all the Congregations, and in the Classical Assemblies, for the Cities of London and Westminster, and the several Counties of the Kingdom, For the speedy settling of the Presbyterian Government, bearing date August. 19 1645. Their Ordinance together with Rules and Directions, concerning suspension from the Sacrament of the Lords Supper, in cases of Ignorance and scandal, dated Octob. 20. 1645. The Votes also of the said Houses for the Choice of Elders throughout the Kingdom of England and Dominion of Wales in the respective Parish Churches and Chapels, according to the directions before mentioned. And touching the power granted to the Tryers of Elections of Elders, Of the date of Feb. 20. 1645. and Feb. 26. 1645. Their Ordinance for keeping scandalous Persons from the Sacrament of the Lords Supper; the enabling of Congregations for the choice of Elders, and supplying of defects in former Ordinances and Directions of Parliament concerning Church Government, bearing date March 14. 1645. The Remedies prescribed by them for removing some obstructions in Church Government, dated April. 22d 1647. And their Ordinance for the speedy dividing and settling the several Counties of this Kingdom into distinct Classical Presbyteries and congregational Elderships, dated Jan. 29. 1647. We say, all these were passed absolutely without any provisoes at all, limiting the time of their continuance, that is expressed in any of them. Indeed in the Ordinance of Parliament giving power to all the Classical Presbyteries within their respective bounds, to examine, approve and ordain Ministers for several Congregations, dated Nou. 10. 1645. It is provided in the Close of it, That it shall stand in force for twelve months, and no longer. As it is provided in another Ordinance for the Ordination of Ministers by the Classical Presbyters within their respective bounds for the several Congregations in the Kingdom of, England bearing date August. 28. 1646. That it shall stand in force for three years and no longer. Which latter might give to some (that took but the matter upon report) an occasion to conceive, that the Presbyterian Government was settled but for three years. Although that was but ill applied to all the several Ordinances that had passed before, which belonged only to one. But the Ordinance especially, from which chiefly (as we conceive) the mistake arose about settling the Presbyterian Government for three years only, was the Ordinance that passed June 5. 1646. The title whereof is, An Ordinance of the Lords and Commons Assembled in Parliament, for the present settling (without further delay) of the Presbyterial Government in the Church of England. In the Close whereof it is ordained. That this Ordinance shall continue for the space of three years, and no longer, unless both Houses think fit to continue it. But if the matter of this Ordinance be consulted, it is manifest it was but touching a Committee of Lords and Commons to adjudge and determine scandalous offences not formerly enumerated, appointed by the Ordinance in stead and place of Commissioners mentioned in the Ordinance of March 14. 1645. And also showing how the Elderships were to proceed in the examination of such scandalous offences. And touching what power was granted to the said Committee, and in what sort they were to proceed, as is clear to any, that shall but take the pains to peruse that Ordinance. The ground whereof in the preface to it, is made to be this. The Lords and Commons in Parliament holding their former resolution, that all notorious and scandalous offenders shall be kept from the Sacrament, have thought fit to make a further addition to the scandalous offences formerly enumerated, for which men shall be kept back from the Sacrament. And lest the stay of the enumeration, and the not naming of Commissioners to judge of Cases not enumerated, should hinder the putting in execution the Presbyterian Government already established, They have thought fit, etc. And do therefore ordain a Committee (therein particularly nominated) in stead and place of Commissioners.  
The groundlesness of the mistake about settling the Presbyterial Government for three years only, that might arise from the proviso in this Ordinance, is so clear to any common understanding, that the bare recital of the sum of the matter of this Ordinance, and the ground of making it, doth make it so fully to appear, that it were but lost labour to use any more words about it. But we have particularly mentioned all that ever passed the Parliament (so far as we have either seen or heard of) that hitherto concerned Church Government, until the year 1648. When the form of Church Government to be used in the Church of England and Ireland was agreed upon by the Lords and Commons Assembled in Parliament, after Advice had with the Assembly of Divines, and was ordered by them to be printed August. 19 of the said year 1648. And this Ordinance (wherein all that had passed the Parliament before in parts, and at several times, and what ever was but temporary, by virtue of other Ordinances (so far as was intended for continuance) are moulded up into a complete body, with a supply of sundry things that had been never mentioned nor published before in other Ordinances) is without any limitation of time for its continuance, and remains unrepealed to this day, for any thing we have seen or heard to the contrary. Nay we think (as we shall touch upon anon) That by the humble Advice, assented to by his Highness, this Ordinance (as well as others) receives strength.  
But by this full account given, we think we have made it sufficiently to appear, that we have had the Authority of the civil Magistrate to bear us out, in what we have acted since the first setting up of the Presbyterian Government until this present. Except there be any, that can come forth, and charge us to have transgressed the rules appointed by the Parliament for us to observe in our actings, against which our own innocency only shall be our defence.  
It now remains for your further satisfaction and our own vindication, that we recite some things particularly out of the form of Church Government, which we conceive are thereunto subservient.  
In the very first Words of the Ordinance (according to what we have before recited in the directions for the electing and choosing of ruling Elders, and is there also to be found) you may find it thus. Be it ordered and ordained by the Lords and Commons in Parliament Assembled and by Authority of the same, That all Parishes and Places whatsoever within the Kingdom of England and Dominion of Wales, (as well Privileged Places and exempted jurisdictions, as others) be brought under the Government of congregational, Classical, Provincial and Nationall Assemblies, etc. Where it is to us unquestionable, That by virtue of this appointment, such as live within the bounds of our several congregations and Parishes are under the power of some one or other of the Congregational Elderships, constituted by Authority of Parliament within our several Parishes; And that all those, that live within the bounds of our Classis (mentioned before) are under the power of our Classical Assembly, constituted in like manner by the said Authority.  
What power is given particularly to the congregational Elderships, you may find in the aforesaid form of Church Government, and unto which we refer you; only we shall mind you, That by virtue thereof, they have power, as they shall see just occasion, to inquire into the knowledge and spiritual estate of any member of the Congregation to admonish, and rebuke, to suspend from the Lords Table, those who are found by them, to be ignorant and scandalous, and to excommunicate according to the rules and directions after following. And it is thereby ordained, That the Examination and Judgement of such Persons, as shall for their ignorance in the points of Religion, mentioned in that Ordinance, not be admitted to the Sacrament of the Lords Supper, is to be in the power of the Eldership of every Congregation. All which will appear by the express Letter of the said Ordinance, to any, that will consult it, and which not only justifies all that is practised in that case by the several Elderships, but also shows what grounds this Classis had for that which was mentioned in our Paper, touching both what is therein appointed to the Minister about Catechising Families, and also concerning the Ministers exhorting such, as in the several Families he should find to be of competent knowledge, and know to be of blameless life, That they should present themselves to the Eldership; The Trial and Judgement in this case not belonging to any one Minister alone, but to the Eldership.  
There are also rules and directions given in this Ordinance to be observed by the several Elderships, concerning suspension from the Sacrament of the Lords Supper in cases of scandal, which may be seen there particularly. But there is no rule given, that will allow either the Eldership or Classis, according to the several powers to them therein granted, either to warn before all, or to excommunicate knowing and blameless men for their mere not presenting themselves before the Eldership.  
The rules of this Government prescribe otherwise; as we ourselves must also needs profess, that we are not conscious to ourselves, that we have given any just occasion by our management thereof, That contrary to the express rules appointed therein to be observed by us, and to the plain sense of our expressions used in our Paper (of which afterward,) any such a thing should have been so much as supposed to have been intended from any thing there expressed.  
Give us leave to proceed a little further, to lay open the order that is prescribed in the above mentioned form of Church Government, touching the order of proceeding to excommunication; which as it will awarrant the publishing of men's names openly in the Congregation, and warning them before all to reform, being such as are justly censurable by the rules thereof, and particularly where it prescribes, that several public admonitions shall be given to the offenders, etc. So it will awarrant us in any thing, that is made censurable by that Paper of ours, that was published.  
To make this to appear, as also to show what reason, we had to make known to the several congregations within our bounds, what our Paper held forth. We shall here declare, what offences are censurable with this greatest and last censure of Excommunication, according to the order, that is there prescribed, and which, as it requires, that it be inflicted with great and mature deliberation, and after all other good means have been essayed; so it appoints in these express Words.  
That such Errors in practice as subvert the Faith, or any other Errors, which overthrow the power of Godliness; if the party who holds them, spread them, seeking to draw others after him; and such sins in practice, as cause the Name and Truth of God to be blasphemed, cannot stand with the power of godliness; and such practices, as in their own nature manifestly subvert that order, unity and Peace, which Christ hath established in his Church; and particularly all those scandalous sins, for which any Person is to be suspended from the Sacrament of the Lords Supper, obstinately persisted in; these being publicly known, to the just scandal of the Church; The sentence of Excommunication may and aught to proceed, according to the directions after following.  
But the Persons, that hold other Errors in Judgement, about which learned and Godly men possibly may and do differ, and which subvert not the faith, nor are destructive to godliness, or that be guilty of such sins of infirmities, as are commonly found in the Children of God: or being otherwise found in the faith, and holy in life (and so not falling under censure by the former rules) endeavour to keep the unity of the spirit in the bond of Peace; and do yet out of conscience, not come up to the observation of all those rules, which are or shall be established by Authority, for regulating the outward worship of God, and Government of his Church. The sentence of excommunication for these causes shall not be denounced against them.  
These things this Classis taking into Consideration, together with the power they were betrusted with by God and Man, for the dispencing the censures of the Church, in the cases censurable by the rules here laid down and elsewhere, in the form of Church Government: And there having been in the Provincial Assembly several debates touching such Persons as in the several Congregations were ignorant and scandalous, who offered not themselves to the Sacrament, not to the Eldership in order to their admission to it: and they commending it to the several Classical Presbyteries to be considered of, whether some further course was not to be held, for the information of the one, and the reformation of the other, then yet had been taken, notwithstanding their neglect; and what they judged fittest to be done for the attaining those ends; and to represent their thoughts therein to the next Assembly. This Classis upon the whole concluded to represent their apprehensions in the Case, as is expressed in the Paper that was published, which was approved of before by the Provincial Assembly, and which they judge is sufficiently awarranted, in regard of any thing therein contained, by the rules expressed in the above mentioned form of Church Government.  
We having thus far showed what we have been, and are awarranted to practice by the several Ordinances above mentioned, we shall now proceed further to declare. That however we are no Lawyers, and therefore leave the determination of the Case to the learned in the Law to judge of, to whom it belongs: yet if it may be lawful for us to judge of a matter of this nature from the principles of reason; It seems to us, that the above mentioned Ordinances about Church Government, as well as other Ordinances of Parliament, are confirmed in the humble Advice assented unto by his Highness in the 16. section thereof. Where we find these Words. And that nothing contained in this Petition and Advice, nor your Highness' consent thereunto, shall be construed to extend to the repealing or making void of any Act or Ordinance, which is not contrary hereunto, or to the matters herein contained. But that the said Acts and Ordinances, not contrary hereunto, shall continue and remain in force, in such manner, as if this present Petition and Advice had not at all been had or made, or your Highness' consent thereunto given. Whence we gather, that if in the several Ordinances for Church Government, there be nothing contrary to the humble Advice, or to the matters therein contained, they are not thereby (any more than any other Acts or Ordinances of Parliament) repealed, but left to remain in force. At least, there seems to us to be a plain intimation, that they have a force in them, which is not by this humble Advice repealed and made void. For it doth not appear to us, That there is any thing in the Form of Church Government, or any other Ordinances of Parliament about that matter; that is contrary to the humble Advice or matters therein contained. And whereas in the 11th section there is mention made of some that differ in worship and discipline from the public profession of these Nations held forth, to whom some indulgence is granted; It seems to us, there is an acknowledgement and owning of what the late Parliament held forth, in regard of these the Directory for worship and form of Church Government, which they passed, as the public profession of these Nations in regard of worship and discipline. And in which apprehensions we are the more confirmed, because here in this section, mention is made of a confession of faith to be agreed on by his Highness and the Parliament, there having nothing in that kind passed the late Parliament, that established the Directory for worship and form of Church Government. However there had been a Confession of faith drawn up by the late Assembly of Divines; Whence it seems to us clear, that they own the Directory for worship, and the form of Church Government, to be that which they hold forth, as the public profession of the Nation for worship and Government. To the same purpose we find in the Government of the Commonwealth of England, Scotland and Ireland, etc. As it was publicly declared at Westminster Decemb. 16. 1653. pag. 43. Sect. 37. Where also they express a worship and Discipline publicly held forth, which must needs refer to the Directory and form of Church Government by us recited; There being no other worship or discipline, that then had, or now hath, the civil Sanction, in this Nation.  
We have been large, in what we have here represented in the general, before we come to speak more particularly to the rest, that now follows in your Paper. But our pains being greater to make this full representation unto you, than it will be for you to read it, we must entreat you to excuse us, considering it tends as well to rectify your mistakes, as to vindicate ourselves, being also desirous not to be mistaken any more, as also because it lays a foundation for our briefer and more particular Answer unto what follows, and to which (these things being thus premised) we now come.  
In the things, wherein you profess yourselves to descent, till further explicated and unfolded by us.  
(1) The first thing we meet with here is; That by the many Persons of all sorts, that are members of Congregations, and mentioned in our Paper, in your sense thereof we seem to hint, that thereby we mean only such, who have admitted themselves members of some Congregation within our association, and yet live inordinately; etc. And that therefore you, who never were any members or associates of ours, are not within the verge and compass of our Presbyterian discipline, etc. Unto which we say; That we have constantly professed against those of the separation. That the several Assemblies of Congregations within this Land, that make a profession of the true Christian and Apostolic Faith, are true Churches of Jesus Christ. That the several members of these Congregations are by their birth, members, as those that were born in the Jewish Church, are said to be, by the Apostle, Jews by nature: Gal. 2. That this their membership was sealed to them in their Baptism, that did solemnly admit them, as into the universal Church, so into the particular, wherein they were born. We have also constantly maintained against the afore mentioned Persons; That the Ministers of these Churches are true Ministers, notwithstanding that exception of theirs against them, that they were ordained by Bishops, who also themselves were true Ministers in our Judgement (though we cannot acknowledge, that by divine right they were superior to their fellow brethren, either in regard of order or jurisdiction) And that therefore the Word and Sacraments (the most essential marks of a true visible Church, according to the professed Judgement of our Divines against the Papists on the one hand, and those of the separation on the other) dispensed by these Ministers, were, and are the true Ordinances of Jesus Christ. And that hereupon our work was not (when the Presbyterian Government was appointed) to constitute Churches, but to reform them only. And that therefore none within our bounds, except they shall renounce Christianity and their Baptism, can be deemed by us to be without, in the Apostles sense; and so therefore not within the compass and verge of our Presbyterian Government. Neither is it their not associating with us in regard of Government, that doth exempt them from censure by it, if they should be such offenders, as by the rules thereof were justly censurable. It not being a matter arbitrary, for private Persons at their own will and pleasure to exempt themselves from under that Ecclesiastical Government, that is settled by Authority. And as you know it would not have been allowed of under the former Government.  
(2) And therefore whether you, and all others within our bounds, be not comprehended within our Government, according to the rules laid down in the Ordinance of Parliament above mentioned, appointing the form of Church Government to be used in the Church of England and Ireland, and therein ordaining, as hath been recited before in the first page thereof, and to which we refer you. (Especially considering, that all within the bounds of our several Parishes (that are no other now them formerly) even Papists and Anabaptists and other Sectaries, were under the late Prelatical Government) we leave it to you to judge. Only if so, we wish you to consider, that then you are brought under the Government of Presbytery, not so much by us, as by the Parliament appointing this Government. And then we think you, who warn us not to contemn civil power, might well (out of respect to the Authority ordaining it, but especially considering the word Presbytery is a known Scripture expression 1 Tim. 4. and interpreted by sundry of the Fathers, as we do, as hath been declared before) have used a more civil expression, then to have called it a common fold, into which (it should seem) your complaint is, that you should be driven. Although Presbytery lays restraint on none, but such as being scandalous in their lives, and so contemning the Laws of God, are therefore truly and indeed the lawless Persons, that we speak of. But whereas (as you suppose) This is our chief design in this, as in other transactions of ours, to subject all to our Government.  
We do refer ourselves to our course of life past, and hope it will witness with us, to all that will judge impartially, what our designs have been in our other transactions. And as touching our design in the Paper published, whether it hath been aught but the information of the ignorant, and reformation of the scandalous, to the Glory of God and their salvation, we leave it to be judged by those, that will judge of men's intentions by what is expressed in their words and actions.  
We know very well, we are charged by some, that we affect Dominion, to Lord it over the People, and to have all sorts of Persons, of what rank soever, to stoop to us. But we do openly profess, that the Government of the Church, that is committed unto men, is not Despotical, but Ministerial. That it is no Dominion, but a Ministry only. And that the Officers, that are entrusted with it, are themselves to be subject, both in regard of their bodies and estates, to the Civil power: That by the Ordinance of God, they are appointed to be under, and that in their Government they have nothing to do with the bodies and estates of any Persons, but with their Souls only. Although here we desire to inquire of you, whether, if you be indeed for the settling of any Government at all in the Church (as you profess to be) you do not think, that all should be subject to it? We cannot judge you to be so irrational, as to be for a Government, and that yet subjection to it must be denied. And if the late Government of the Prelacy was not blamed by you, because it required subjection to it; we wish you to consider, whether upon this account you have reason to censure us. But further, whereas you tell us; That we garnish our Government with the specious title of Christ's Government, Throne and Sceptre. We wish you to consider, what in your Answer to an objection (that you frame out of our Paper) yourselves do say. You there tell us. You pray for the establishment of such Church Government, as is consonant to the will of God, and universal practice of primitive Churches. That Ecclesiastical Discipline may be exercised in the hands of them, to whom it was committed by Christ, and left by him to be transferred from hand to hand to the end of the World. The expressions, you here use, are as high touching that Government you would have established, as any have been, that ever we have used of ours. For your prayer is, That Ecclesiastical Discipline may be exercised in the hands of them, to whom it was committed by Christ, and left by him to be transferred from hand to hand to the end of the world. The Government then, that you are for, must be with you, Christ's Government Throne and Sceptre. And why do you then condemn us, if we have used such expressions concerning our Government, till you have convinced us, that it is not such? When yet you take to yourselves the Liberty to use the like language, concerning the Government you pray may be established.  
But whereas you say, Presbytery is the main thing driven at here, and that however she comes ushered in with Godly pretence of sorrow for the sins and the ignorance of the times, and the duty incumbent upon us, to exercise the power that Christ hath committed to us, for edification and not for destruction, and that these are but so many waste Papers, wherein Presbytery is wrapped up to make it look more handsomely and pass more currently. We do earnestly desire, That in the examination of your consciences, you would seriously consider, whether you have not both transgressed the rules of Charity in passing such hard censures upon us, and also usurped that, which belongs not to you, in making yourselves judges of what falls not under your cognizance. The things you mention belonging only to be tried by your and our Master, to whom we must all stand or fall. But we are hearty sorry, that Presbytery (which stands in no need of any painting or cover to make it look more handsomely and pass more currently) should be accounted by you the anguis in herba, whereof you had need to beware, it having never given that offence to any, as to merit such language.  
But now you frame an objection out of our Paper, and return your Answer, professing, That you pray for the establishment of such Church Government throughout his Highness' Dominions, as is consonant to the will of God and universal practice of primitive Churches, etc. In that you do here join the will of God and the universal practice of primitive Churches together, as you joined the Word of God and the constant practice of the Catholic Church before, you seem to us, to make up the rule (whereby we must judge what Government it is, that you pray might be established) of these two, viz. the will of God and the universal practice of primitive Churches. Or that it is the universal practice of primitive Churches. That must be our sure guide and comment upon the Word of God, to tell us, what is his will revealed these touching Church Government and discipline. If this be your sense (as we apprehend it is) we must needs profess, that herein we greatly differ from you, as not conceiving it to be sound and orthodox. It being the Word of God alone, and the approved practice of the Church recorded there (whether it was the universal and constant practice of the Church or no) that is to be the only rule to judge by in this, or any other controversies in matters of Religion. But yet admitting for the present the rule you seem to make, we should desire to know from you, what that Church Government is, which is so consonant to the will of God and universal practice of primitive Churches. For our own parts, we think it will be very hard for you, or any others, to demonstrate out of any Records of Antiquity, what was the universal practice of primitive Churches for the whole space of the first 300. years after Christ, or the greatest part thereof (excepting so much as is left upon record in the Scriptures of the new Testament) the Monuments of Antiquity, that concern those times (for the greatest part of them) being both imperfect, and far from showing us, what was the universal practice of the Church then (though the practices of some Churches may be mentioned,) and likewise very questionable. At least it will not be easy to assure us, that some of those, that go under the names of the most approved Authors of those times, are neither spurious nor corrupted. And hereupon it will unavoidably follow, that we shall be left very doubtful, what Government it is, that is most consonant to the universal and constant practice of primitive Churches for that time. But as touching the rule itself, which you seem here to lay down, we cannot close with it. We do much honour and reverence the primitive Churches; But yet we believe we own more reverence to the Scriptures, then to judge them either imperfect or not to have light enough in themselves, for the resolving all doubts touching matters of faith or practice, except it be first resolved what was either the concurrent interpretation of the Fathers, or the universal and constant practice of the Churches of those times. Besides that admitting this for a rule, that the universal and constant practice of the primitive Churches must be that, which must assure us what is the will of God revealed in Scripture concerning the Government which he hath appointed in the Church, our faith is hereupon resolved into a most uncertain ground, and so made fallible and turned into opinion. For what monuments of Antiquity, besides the Scripture, can assure us touching the matters of fact therein contained, that they were such indeed, as they are there reported to be? the Authors of them themselves being men that were not infallibly guided by the Spirit. But yet supposing we could be infallibly assured (which yet never can be) what was the universal and constant practice of the primitive Churches, how shall that be a rule to assure us, what is most consonant to the will of God? When as we see not, especially in such matters, as are not absolutely necessary to salvation, 
Even as a General Council itself is subject to error.  but that the universal practice of the Churches might in some things be dissonant to the will of God revealed in Scriptures. And so the universal practice of primitive Churches can be no certain rule to judge by, what Church Government is most consonant to the will of God revealed in his Word. We know there are corruptions in the best of men: There was such hot contention betwixt Paul and Barnabas, 
Gal. 2.  as caused them to part asunder. Peter so failed in his practice, as that though before some came from James, he did eat with the Gentiles, yet when they were come he withdrew himself, fearing them of the Circumcision. And hereupon not only other Jews dissembled with him, but Barnabas also was carried away with their dissimulation. Whence it's clear, that the examples of the best men even in those things, wherein they went contrary to the rule of God's Word, are of a spreading nature, and the better the Persons, that give the bad example, are, the greater the danger of the more universal leavening. Nay we find, that not only some few Apostolical men had their failings, but even Apostolical primitive Churches did, in the very face of the Apostles, they being yet alive, make great defection, both in regard of opinions and practices. As from the examples of the Churches of Corinth, Galatia, and the Churches of Asia is manifest. The Apostle also tells us, that even in his time, the mystery of iniquity began to work: And in after times we know, how the Doctrine was corrupted: what gross superstition crept into the Church: what domination was striven for amongst the Pastors and Bishops of the Churches. Till at length Antichrist was got up into his seat, unto which height yet he came not all at once, but by steps and degrees. Besides it is of fresh remembrance, that notwithstanding the reformation happily brought about in our own Church in regard of Doctrine and worship, after those dismal Marian times, yet the corruption, in regard of Government continued such, during the time of the late Prelacy (which yet was taken away in other reformed Churches) that the Pastors were deprived of that power of rule, that our Church acknowledgeth did belong to them of right; and which did anciently belong to them; however the exercise thereof did after grow into a long disuse, as hath been showed before. And therefore when we consider on the one hand, that the superiority, which the Bishop obtained at the first above the Presbyter in the ancient Church (and which was rather obtained consuetudine Ecclesiae then by Divine right) did at the length grow to that height, that the Pastors were spoiled of all power of rule: so we cannot much wonder on the other hand, that the ruling Elder was quite turned out of doors; For the proof of the being and exercise of whose office in the purer times, there are notwithstanding produced testimonies of the ancients, by Divines both at home and abroad, that have written about that subject, and to which we do therein refer you: As there do remain some footsteps and shadow of their office in the Churchwardens and Sides-men even to this day. And so upon the whole, the premises considered, and that we are commanded not to follow a multitude to do evil (though it were of the best of men) and that therefore the examples and practices, though it were of whole Churches, are to be no farther a rule for us, than they follow Christ, and as their examples be approved of in the Word of Christ, notwithstanding the universality and long continuedness of such practices. Whereas you say, that you pray for the establishment of such Church Government, as is consonant to the will of God and universal practice of primitive Churches; we believe you might cut the matter a great deal shorter, and say, That you are for the establishing of that Government, that is most consonant to the will of God revealed in the Scriptures, and that the Word of God alone (and on which only Faith must be built, and into which at last be resolved, when other records of Antiquity, that yet are not so ancient, as it is, have been searched into never so much) shall determine what that is, and so those wearisome and endless disputes, about what is the universal and constant practice of primitive Churches (and which if it could be found out in any good measure of probability for the first 300. years after Christ, could never yet be so far issued, as to be a sure bottom, whereon our faith may safely rest) may be cut off. It being a most certain rule, and especially in matters of faith, that the Factum is not to prescribe against the Jus; The Practice against the Right or what ought to be done. And it being out of all question the safest course for all, to bring all doctrine and practices to the sure and infallible Standard and Touchstone, the Word of God alone. And after you have more seriously weighed the matter, and remember how you profess, that in the matters you propose in your Paper, You rest not in the Judgement or determination of any general Council of the Eastern or Western Churches, determining contrary, to what you are persuaded is so fully warranted in the Word of God, as well as by the constant practice of the Catholic Church; (although what that was, were more likely to be resolved by a general Council then by yourselves) the proposal of having the Word of God alone to be the Judge of the Controversy about Church-Government, cannot (we think) in reason be denied by you.  
And we with you shall hearty pray, That the Church-Government, which is most consonant to the will of God revealed in Scriptures, might be established in these Lands. Although we must also profess, that we believe, that that Government, which is established by Authority, and which we exercise, is, for the substantials of it, this Government, & which we judge also to be most consonant to the practice of the primitive Churches in the purest times. And therefore as there was some entrance made by the late Parliament, in regard of establishing this Government by Ordinances, as the Church-Government of these Nations: And as to the putting those Ordinances in execution, there hath been some beginning in the Province of London, the Province of this County, and in some other places throughout the Land: So when there shall be the opportunity offered, we shall not be wanting by petitioning or otherways to use our best endeavours, that it may be fully settled throughout these Lands. That so we may not, as to Government in the Church, any longer continue as a City without walls, and a Vineyard without an hedge, and so (to the undoing of our posterity) endanger Religion to be quite lost. And upon which consideration we do earnestly desire, that all conscientious and moderate spirited men throughout the Land, though of different principles, whether of the Episcopal or Congregational way, would bend themselves so far as possibly they can to accommodate with us in point of practice: In which there was so good a progress made by the late Assembly, as to those that were for the Congregational way: And, as we think, also all those that were for the lawfulness of submission to the Government of the late Prelacy, as it was then exercised: And that are of the Judgement of the lare Primate of Ireland in his reduction of Episcopacy unto the form of Synodical Government, (mentioned before) might do, if they would come up towards us so far, as we judge their principles would allow them: As we do also profess, that however we cannot consent to part with the Ruling Elder, unless we should betray the truth of Christ Rom. 12. 1 Cor. 12. 1 Tim. 5. (as we judge,) and dare not give any like consent to admit of a moderate Episcopacy, for fear of encroachments upon the Pastor's right, and whereof late sad experience lessons us to beware, as we judge also, that the superiority of a Bishop above a Presbyter in degree (which some maintain) is no Apostolical institution, and so have the greater reason in that respect to caution against it: Yet we do here profess, we should so far, as will consist with our principles and the peace of our own consciences, be ready to abate or tolerate much for peace sake. That so at the length all parties throughout the Land, that have any soundness in them in matters of faith, and that are sober and godly, though of different judgements in lesser matters, being weary of their divisions, might fall in the necks one of another with mutual embraces and kisses, and so at last (through the tender mercy of our God, there might be an happy closure of breaches, and restoring of peace and union in this poor, unsettled, rend, and distracted Church, to the glory of God throughout all the Churches.  
But now as to you, and what follows in your Paper, (and in the mean season, till this can be accomplished, and for which we shall hearty pray) we cannot but judge, that such as are within our bounds, and live as lawless persons contemning the commands of God, and so out of their rank and order, (and of which sort you deny not, but that there may be some among us, however they be subject to Law, and the punishment of the Civil Sword, as needs they must be) yet being such as are justly censurable, according to the rules of our Government, we do not think they are thereby exempted from being reached by that Ecclesiastical Sword, as you phrase it, which both God and the Civil Authority hath entrusted us with.  
And as we are far from contemning the Authority of the Civil Magistrate, and shall therefore (out of due respect unto it, and that the lawless might be kerbed) be ready, not only ourselves, as we have a call; but also warn others, as there may be occasion, to make complaint to the Civil Power, that so such offenders, being punished by corporal and pecuniary mulcts, to the suppression of wickedness and licentiousness, and the Reformation of men's lives and manners; Yet we do not apprehend why this should hinder us from warning the Members of our several Congregations to make complaint to the Eldership of those, that walk disorderly and will not be reclaimed, to the end they may be further dealt with, as the nature of their offence may deserve. We being fully assured from the word of truth, That Excommunication is God's ordinance, appointed for the reformation of the scandalous, and as you yourselves acknowledged in the beginning of your Paper: and being a spiritual punishment for the nature and kind of it, through the blessing of God, may be more available for the destruction of the flesh, and the thorough humiliation of the offender, than any corporal or pecuniary mulct (that reaches but the outward man) can be; And as it was blessed with great success for this end for many years together, whilst the Church was destitute of Christian Magistrates: Although in a Christian State we see not, why we should divide what God hath joined together. We having not yet learned either from the Scriptures or sound reason, that the conjunction of the Civil and Ecclesiastical Sword is not more likely, through the same blessing of God, to work a greater reformation in men's lives, then either of them alone, remembering that old Maxim, Vis unita fortior. And as touching ourselves, and the power we are entrusted to exercise, we shall commit our endeavours unto his blessing, in the use of his own appointed means who is able, and we doubt not but he will, make the same effectual for the ends for which he hath appointed them.  
But you say, There are other parts of our Paper, that do likewise remain dark, which you desire to be made plain. Although we conceive not so of them, yet we shall as willingly go along with you, to give you further answer, as you to desire the same of us.  
And therefore whereas we having said in our Paper, That there are many persons of all sorts, that will not submit themselves to the present Government of the Church. Your first Quaere thereupon is, Why Government in singulari? We answer, because it is the only Government, that at present is established in this Church by Civil Authority; The Prelatical being put down, and cautioned against in the humble Advice, in regard of any liberty to be extended to it for the exercise thereof: And there being no other Government but the Presbyterian (which is our Government) that is owned (as the Church-Government for the whole Nation) by the Civil Authority. And as it is that, which we judge to be most agreeable to the will of God, so also we conceive, that whatever is of Christ's prescribing in any other different Government (whether Episcopal or Congregational) is to be found here: As we do apprehend the redundancies of them both to be taken away in this, and the defects of them both to be here supplied. And however there may be differences amongst godly men concerning Church-Government, which it is that Christ in particulari hath prescribed in his Word, yet we judge that the Government which Christ hath prescribed in his Word is but one; As all those must say so too, that not being Erastians' do hold, That one Church-Government or other is of divine Right.  
But whereas you bring in Calvin saying, Scimus enim unicuique Ecclesiae, etc.  
To this we say; The circumstantials of Government, that are but matters of order only, and which must be suited to the time, or place, or persons, for whom they are made, and concerning which (if you had quoted the place where Calvin useth these words) we believe it would appear he speaks; these being variable, and so but the accidentals of Government, may not be one and the same in all Churches. But if Christ have prescribed a Government in his word; for the substantials of it, it must needs be de jure one & the same in every Church. And that the Presbyterian Government is that in particular, which is there prescribed, in Calvin's judgement, is so manifest by his works to the whole Christian world, that it needs no proof. But if the Government, which Christ hath prescribed, for the substantials of it be only one, then that alone is good, and all other Governments differing substantially from it must needs be bad; and this only jure divino, and Christ's own Government, and the rest not.  
And therefore, whereas in the next place you suppose, We may assert, that our Government, is the Government by way of Eminency, as Christ's own Government, more immediately, and jure divino. To this and to what you further hereupon do inquire, we say, we have declared already; That we called it the present Government, because it is the only Government settled in the Church by the Civil Power. But whether it be the Government by way of Eminency and jure divino, that was not the thing referred unto in the phrase we used. And as to the resolving of your doubts and scruples, we conceive it is here for us not material to go about the proving of the Jus divinum of it; we having proved, That it is the Government that is established by the Civil Magistrate, and which doth lay as good a foundation to evidence the lawfulness of your submission to it, as for the lawfulness of your submission to the former Government, (and touching which we suppose you were satisfied) your exceptions lying as much against the High-Commissioners, Chancellors, and Commissaries then, as they can do now against the office of Ruling Elders, and which is the chief thing we apprehend is stumbled at in our Government.  
But yet if you desire to have satisfaction given you touching that which we are not ashamed to profess, viz. the Jus divinum of the Presbyterian Government, we refer you to what is so fully spoken touching this point, by sundry learned Divines both of our own Church, and the Reformed Churches abroad, that we know not, what can be added more 
a 
The Assemblies Propositions about Church-Government.  
The Jus Divinum by London Ministers.  
The Provincial Synod of London their vindication of the Presbyterian Government. rutherford's due right of Presbyteries. Aaron's Rod, by Gillaspie.  .  
And yet we do not say, That there is no present Government in any Church or Assembly of Saints, but where our Discipline and Government is erected entirely in all the parts of it, no more than we should deny him to be a man, in whom there were a defect of some integral parts, or in whom there were some superfluous members. But as when Antichristianism so overspread the face of the Church in those dark times before the Reformation, God preserved a Church, Ministry and Ordinances, though not without the mixture of many corruptions in doctrine and worship, even amongst the Papists themselves; So there was some of Christ's Government and Discipline in the worst times, though not entirely, nor without the mixture of much corruption in that Discipline and Government. And yet if you consult Antiquity, you will not find, that the Presbyterian Government hath lain hid so long, as that for the space of 1500 years it could never be found till this present. You have heard what rule did anciently belong to Presbyters, notwithstanding that through the corruptions, that crept into the Church in after times, the exercise of that power was long disused. And the like may be said of Ruling Elders, and as hath been showed by others. But it is what de jure ought to be, and not what the facto is or hath been, which is that, which you and we are chief to attend, and concerning which the Scripture must be the only Judge, as we have said before.  
But you say, now subjection to our present Government is required by us; and then demand, Whether all that observe not our rank and order, and subject not themselves to our present Government, must be taken for lawless persons? for so, say you, doth this close connexion of ours seem to import; viz. Many who do not subject, but live, etc.  
But here you do reason fallaciously à bene conjunctis ad male divisa: For in our Paper we speak of such, as did live in a sinful and total neglect of the Lords Supper: That were scandalous and offensive in their lives, drunkards, unclean persons, and that will not subject themselves to the present Government, but live as lawless persons. And therefore the lawless persons we meant (and as might plainly have been gathered from our words) were such, who as they subjected not themselves to the present Government of the Church, so they were also scandalous and offensive in their lives, we joining these altogether, whom you divide. And whether such as will neither submit themselves to the Laws of God, nor the Government, that is settled in the Church by the Civil Power, be not lawless persons, we leave it to you to judge.  
But yet we do here also mind you, That however we do not judge all those to be lawless persons, that do out of conscience not come up to the observation of all those Rules, which are or shall be established by Authority for regulating the outward worship of God, and Government of this Church (being otherwise blameless) yet both you and we may well remember, that such as should have refused to have subjected themselves to the late Prelatical Government, would have been accounted in those times to have been lawless persons.  
But you say, When we make it an Order, that notice shall be taken of all persons, that forsake the public Assemblies of the Saints, you would gladly know, how far we extend this Saintship, this Church, and Assembly of Saints?  
To which we answer, as far as the Apostle did, when writing to the Church of Corinth and the Churches of Galatia he calls them Saints and Churches; notwithstanding there were some in those Churches that were leavened with unsound doctrine and grossly erroneous: In Corinth, some that denied the Resurrection, made rents and schisms, and sundry grossly scandalous: In the Churches of Galatia, such as mixed works with Faith in the point of Justification, and of which the Apostle Paul would have those Churches to take notice, even to the censuring of them, they being spots to those Assemblies; and however Saints by profession, and in regard of outward calling, being in Covenant with God, and having been baptised, yet answered not their profession by suitable conversation. And therefore, however there be sundry of the like stamp in our Assemblies, we do not therefore unchurch them, or make our Assemblies not the Assemblies of Saints, because of the corruption of such members.  
And seeing our principles and practices are manifestly known to be utterly against the opinions and practices of the Donatists of old, and those that have of late rend themselves from our Churches, because of the scandalousness of the corrupt members, that are found in them, (though the sin of these in our Churches is aggravated by giving that occasion) you might well have spared your pains in transcribing out of Augustine, what he justly said unto those schismatics, that he had to deal with. Nay, you might rather have gathered from our Paper; That seeing we said, that notice should be taken of all those that should forsake the public Assemblies of the Saints, our purpose was to have censured such as the Donatists were; That we purposed to observe and censure those that did maintain and hold up private meetings in opposition to the public; That cry down our Churches and public Assemblies, Ministry and Ordinances, (as you know several sorts do; and who, as they hold sundry gross errors, that subvert the faith, so in regard of those and other their practices, that in their own nature do manifestly subvert the order, unity, and peace, that Christ hath established in his Church) do justly fall under Church censure, according to the rules of our Government above mentioned. And that therefore we were not altogether silent concerning either the sin or punishment of such, as did err grossly in doctrinals or in discipline, so as to make such dangerous rents from the Church, as the forenamed Sectaries do: Contrary to what you say of us in your Paper. And further, by such as forsake the public Assemblies of the Saints, of whom we said notice should be taken, you might have gathered our meaning was, that such (of which sort there are but too many amongst us) who out of a principle of carelessness, sloth, worldliness or manifest profaneness, do on the Lord's day either idle out the time, or else are worse employed, when they should resort to the public Assemblies: and who, as they are no friends to any private meetings for the good of their souls, in the use of any private means of conference or prayer for that end: So they do also Atheistically turn their backs on all the public Ordinances, forsaking them and the Assemblies, where these are dispensed, should be taken notice of in order to censure, if there was not reformation; and to neither of which sort of persons any indulgence is granted by any Laws of the Land, that we know of. And if you had gathered thus much from our Paper, as your mistake had been far the less, so your Charity had been the more, then to have reckoned us in the number of such Persons, as the Donatists were. And yet we did not mean, That we intended to take notice in order unto censure of such, who being sound in the faith, and godly in life (though differing from us in point of Discipline and Government) had their distinct Assemblies from ours, they endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of Peace: They not being censurable by the rules of our Government, as is manifest, by what we have declared before. Although we remember, how all that submitted not to the former Government, were counted schismatical. Neither did we reckon these in the number of the lawless Persons, we speak of, who subjected not themselves to our Government, and whom we account to be parts of the universal visible Church militant here on earth, however they have also their public Assemblies distinct from ours, though sundry of them, as there is occasion, resort to ours also. But how we should hereupon make either these or the lawless Persons, that we speak of, members of the invisible Triumphant Church (all which we have reckoned to belong to the visible) they must have eyes quicker than Eagles, that can discern how this follows, and therefore there is no fear our Charity should so far overreach, as you supposed it might.  
But still you are unsatisfied; For you know not, it seems, what we mean by the word (Public) the public Assemblies of the Saints. By our professions and practices in our owning the public Assemblies, and where the public Ordinances of the Word, Sacraments, and Prayer are dispensed, which we ourselves do constantly frequent and stir up others to frequent also, it was plain enough, what we meant by public Assemblies. And we are hearty sorry, that you understanding our meaning, as is clear by what you say anon, should by this but make your way to give a lash at our Private meetings, which are none of them such, as we need to be ashamed of. And which, when we meet, either for conference about matters of Religion, or to pray together, and humble ourselves for our own sins and the sins of these times; When there is not the opportunity of a public Assemby; or when personal or Family occasions call for a private, is surely as commendable, at the least, as a private meeting upon domestical, civil, or political occasions: and therefore not to be secretly girded at. And on the other hand, we do not meddle with the censuring of those, who being godly and sound in the faith, in the main points of Religion, do yet differ from us in judgement, in matters of Discipline and Government: And have their Assemblies for Gods public worship distinct from ours, as we are barred from it by the rules of our Government, as we have often said before. And therefore we leave room enough for Consciences that are truly tender. Though we cannot say so much for the Prelatical Government.  
Neither do we transgress any Laws of the Land which have made no provision to except any Persons, that we meddle with, and are made censurable by the rules laid down in the form of Church Government, nor have we under Colour of Authority made any Laws and Edicts, but according to that power, that the civil Authority hath committed to us, have only openly given notice in our several Congregations, of what offences are censurable by the rules of our Government, that the offenders might take heed, they incur not that censure of Excommunication, which Authority hath awarranted us to inflict upon the obstinate and otherwise incorrigible. And therefore (except to execute what we are appointed to do by the civil power be to contemn it) we cannot be thought to have done any thing in contempt of the civil power, as it is not our ignorance of the Laws in force (that, we are confident, being grounded in reason fight not one against another, and which is your more charitable and favourable construction) that hath led us into any practices, that are transgressions of them. And therefore though you much question (upon what account soever it be, that we have been led into what we have acted) and think it concerns us to look to it, whether we have not run ourselves into a praemunire. Yet we are assured, we are as sufficiently secured against that danger, as all the Justices in the Land are, that have acted upon other Ordinances of Parliament, which they have judged to be in force, as we do also those to be, that have been the ground of our proceed.  
But you have yet further to except, for whereas we said, That like notice should be taken of all scandalous Persons. Your next Quaere is, Whether those, that forsake the public Assemblies of the Saints in the second order, may not be taken for scandalous Persons comprehended in the third order?  
Here we perceive you understood, who were meant by those, that did forsake the public Assemblies of the Saints, viz. Those who forsaking the Assemblies, where the public Ordinances were dispensed, were upon that account really and indeed scandalous, and so being comprehended under the latitude of that expression, might justly merit to be censured as scandalous Persons. And thus conceiving you were not mistaken, yet we, who were to express ourselves popularly, and so as we might be understood, considering some of that stamp, though they forsook the public Assemblies of the Saints, and constantly turned their backs as on the Lord's Supper, so on all other Ordinances, yet if not drunkards and swearers, whoremasters, etc. did not take themselves to be scandalous Persons. Do not think, that in this we are any more to be blamed by you (we using variety of expressions only for this end, that we might be better understood) than we blame Lawyers and Attorneys, and wherein we judge them not to be blame worthy) for using variety of expressions and Multiplicity of Synonnymous Words to make the matter more clearand out of doubt, where yet one and the same thing is understood by all.  
But now hereupon your complaint is; That we burden you with Traditions in multiplying of orders fine necessitate ad Arthritim usque; and cry out, Quare oneramini ritibus? And tell us of lengthening out our Paper, which yet is not by these few words hereused made very much longer.  
But if you had remembered the multitude of Canons and burdensome Ceremonies, that were rigorously pressed, even to the highest censure in Case of refusal, and under the burden whereof sundry truly conscientious Persons under the late Prelacy did sigh and groan: When those, that were scandalous enough in their lives, escaped censure (and which some have cause not so soon to forget) we think you would have seen little