David's Enemies discovered. Who of him make SONGS, but without the Spirit and without understanding, as the Drunkard did which he declares of in Psal. 69. 12. OR, A TRUE DISCOVERY of that custom and form which the PRIESTS of this Generation would make an Ordinance of, to blind the eyes of the simple, as this priest Clapham: in his 6 Arguments, which is here answered, by us who suffer for the Truth, whose names according to the flesh are Christopher Atkinson. George Whitehead. Also a brief REPLY unto Frederick Woodall's three Principles and Resolves; and with Replies to his Answers, to several Queries propounded to him, that to the simple the truth may be cleared, from one who for the Captivated seeds sake suffers now in outward bonds in Norwitch Castle, whose name in the flesh is Richard Hubberthorne. LONDON: Printed for Giles Calvert at the Black spread- 〈…〉 West end of Paul's. 1655. A Paper being brought into our hands which was given forth by one of the Priests whose name is Jonathan Clapham, who to uphold his deceit and Imaginations, and carnal observatirns, In imitation from that which the true worshippers which worshipped in spirit and truth without for me or letter witnessed, and spoke forth when redemption they did see, and so were they hid, from such as would make a custom and a trade upon what they spoke forth, who lived the life of what they sung and spoke, (in the spirit,) who lived not in custom nor in Imitation of others, neither did they boast themselves in another man's Line made ready to their hands, but as they received the spirit so walked they in the spirit, and with it they sang, and by it they spoke, and 2 Cor. 10. 13, 14, 15, 16. 2 Tim. 3. ●. Jude 19 by the spirit they knew what time it did signify, and such as was sensual who had not the spirit but the form, they denied and witnessed against them, and such now with the same spirit do we witness against, and to clear the truth and lay open the deceit of this generation of Priests, who make a custom and a trade of Scriptures, who take people's money for that which is no bread, but for dishonest gain destroys souls, and keeps poor people in blindness and darkness, by their Inventions and vain Imaginations, that under their Dark Ministry poor people are ever learning, never able to come to the knowledge of the truth, and for their sakes who by these blind guides are led in blindness, Are we moved to answer something to this Priest Clapham's Arguments, as he calls them, that they that never saw, might see his nakedness uncovered, by which Arguments he is going about to maintain, singing of David's conditions a custom, which are Answered as followeth, &c. SInging of psalms was once an Ordinance of God Priest. Argument 1. in the Church and a part of divine worship, and (1) was never repealed under the gospel, (2) nor was of a typical nature and use as was the ceremonies, and to cease with them, (3) but ever reckoned among moral and perpetual duties, as prayer, and learning the word, see Psal. 59 1, 2, 6, 7. (4) such a duty as the very light in all men taught them to practice, witness the custom of all nations, See Godwin, Rom. Antiqu. and read Homer's hymns, Horace's odes, &c. which showeth it to be of an universal and perpetual obligation, therefore it continues an ordinance of God still, as well as prayer and learning the word, and should not be abolished under the Gospel. They who witness the gospel are come, to the ministration Answer. of the spirit which is the end of all shadows, which shadowed forth the life, who came to witness the Church in God, 1 Thes. 1▪ and of this church the saints were ordained members, and this church was not a temple made with hands, where once singing was, which was to cease with its worship, and the songs of that temple was to be turned into Howling, Amos 8. 3. but they who are members of the church which is in God they sing with one spirit, being thereunto called by the Lord, which was not moral but spiritual, and they did not bring old Authors to prove their Actions by, as thou dost, but in that they worshipped which was before authors was, and before Oxford and Cambridge was, which thou and thy generation have your Ministry f●om, and their word and gospel was not the letter, which thou and thy generation makes a trade upon, and by the same spirit they sang by which the gospel was preached, and there was no division, and they made not a custom of other men's conditions, as to get them into rhyme and meeter and give them forth unto a company of blind people as thou and thy generation do, and their singing was with the spirit, and with understanding, which we own, but thee we do deny and all thy generation, woe give people David's conditions to sing in a meeter, where David did mourn and where he was afflicted ye sing, and where he quaked▪ and trembled, and prayed, and prophesied, these ye sing, & tell God you do so, and here you make a custom like a stage play upon David's conditions, and scoffs and scorns at them now who witness Quaking and trembling, and this we deny for this is both without the spirit and without understanding. The prophecies in Scripture that foretell the state of the Priest. Arg. 2. Church in the new Testament, do speak of psalms to be used, there as a part of God's worship Psal. 98. 1, 2. Psal. 100 1, 2. Psal. 100 1, 2, 3. where mention is made of the Gentiles, when converted, singng psalms to God, Rom. 15. 9 see Isa. 26. 1. and 35. 10. Rev. 14. 5. and 15. 3. The prophecies in scripture that foretell the state of the Answer. church, do not prophesy as psalms to be used as a part of God's worship, nor such a word there is spoken in them▪ for the prophecies were fulfilled when the end came, and the church was the life, of that which the prophets prophesied of, which was without spot or wrinkle, and the songs of this church are everlasting, and they who are come thither can sing a new song, for the salvation, which they are witnesses of, Psal. 98. 1, 2. and they can sing the song of redemption, and the song of Moses, and of the Lamb, which no man can learn, but they that are redeemed from the earth, and they that have the new name, Rev. 14. 3, 4. and this song can neither thou sing, who art in the earth, and in thy earthly nature, and ministers for the earth and to the earth, in Balaam's way, for gifts and rewards, nor them to whom thou gives David's conditions, who are not brought to see the day of bitterness and lamentation which the saints did witness before they came to see salvation and redemption, for which they praised God, which salvation and testament, to the end that generation is hid, who live in the wild, profane, and heady nature, without the fear of God, who are in the time of wantonness and laughter, which woe is unto, Luke 6. 25. and not brought to the time of mourning, and therefore far from the day of salvation and the saints joy, and there your singing is carnal and for condemnation and out of the true worship. It hath been a duty practised not only in the times of the Priest. Arg. 3. law but by the people of God under the gospel, under the law we have the songs of Moses, Deborah, and Barack, of David the sweet singer of Israel, of Solomon, who composed to the number of 1005 songs, of Asaph, and Heman, and Habakuk, &c. Under the gospel we read of the songs of many, Simon, Zachary: of Christ and his Apostles singing an hymn, after the Lord's supper, Mat. 26. 30. according as was the custom among the Jews, who used to sing some of David's Psalms the night wherein the passover was eaten, as those who are skilled in their customs write: we read of Paul and Silas Acts 16. singing in prison, also of the practice of the church of Corinth, 1 Cor. 14. singing Psalms, and in primitive, before Antichristian apostasy, which was commonly practised, as Phil. Tert. Just. Martin. Chrysost. testify: yea the very Heathens took notice of this practice and did write of it, Pliny in his letter to Trojan the Emperor writes of the Christian hymns, Antelucanos, morning psalms, & songs early in the morning, will I praise thee, &c. Neither Moses nor Habbakuk who was servants of God, nor any of the people of God, did ever call singing a custom Answer. or practice, neither did they ever give a company of silly blind people other men's conditions, in time and meeter to sing, but though Moses sang, yet he knew the work of the Lord in his deliverance out of Egypt, for which he praised God, but the work of the Lord is not known to thee, and thy generation, who draw people from the Light of Christ within, and calls it natural, which doth enlighten every one that comes into the world, and this is that which brings to witness their conditions who spoke forth Scripture; and this is it which brings to witness John 1. 9 Acts 4. 12. 1 Cor. 2. 14. and chap. 1. ●●. Isa. 42. 6. Ephes. 2. 1. salvation and redemption wherein the saints rejoice, and thou that calls this natural, dost not know the work of the Lord, nor his redemption, and there thy singing is without understanding, and thou knows for not what thou sings, nor they that spook the scriptures did never compel a company of poor people who are dead in trespasses and sins to observe duties or outward observations, as thou dost, but saith Christ, my kingdom comes not by observations, but my kingdom is within, Luke 17. 21. neither did ever any of the holy men of God go and hire with a people at such a place and took such a sum of money of them, for preaching, neither did they go to a 1 Cor. 4. 20. Heb. 11. 36. to the end. company of blind people, and give them David's conditions to sing in meeter as thou and thy generation do, who say, Let us sing to the praise and glory of God, O Lord I am not puffed in mind, I have no scornful eye, when thy are puffed in mind and scorns them that are brought to witness David's and Habbakuks condition, as quaking and trembling, Hab. 3. 16. Psal. 2. 11. Jer. 5. 22. and in scorn calls them Quakers; and they that sang after the Lord's suppers, did not call a little bread and wine the Lord's supper or a Sacrament as thou dost, which thou hast no scripture for, and the Lord's supper thou art not come to, who act such things, nor the bread of life didst thou ever taste of, but Col. 2 14, 16, 20, 21, 22. Ps●l. 119. 175. thy singing and prayers and praises is in the death; and them thou bids sing to the praise and glory of God, who are dead in trespasses and sins, when the dead cannot praise God, but the living, neither can they that go down into the pit praise him, for praises are not comely in the mouth of the wicked, and there thou art. and Egypt is thy figure, a Land of darkness where Isa. 38. 19 Pharaoh rules, and Moses thou art not come to, and how can thou sing Moses song who art yet in Egypt? but death rules in thee, which hath passed over all men, from Adam until Moses: and to maintain thy singing thou brings dead men as Pliny, and other heathens like thyself, who knows not God nor his worship, but would rest and pervert the scriptures to maintain thee in thy Customs and outward observations, which thou hast no scripture for, and makes a custom and trade of other men's conditions which thou hast nothing to do with, as to cause people to sing lies, as when David roared they sing, and where he trembled they sing, and where he saith, he watered his couch with tears they sing, and say they do so, and there thou art a leader that causes people to err. If this suffice not, know there is express scripture command Priest. Arg. 4. as well as examples and prophecies, for this duty of singing of Psalms, and that not only in the old, but also in the new Testament, Ephes. 5. 18, 19 where the Apostle alluding to the custom that drunkards have when they are filled with wine, they have their songs, so when Christians are filled with the wine of the spirit they should have their psalms hymns and spiritual songs: the Hebrews had 3 words whereby they divided David's Psalms, shurim, tehillim, mismorem, to which three words here used by the Apostle, psalms, hymns, and spiritual songs, as we see Col. 3. 16. admonishing one another in Psalms, and so James 5. 13. If any be afflicted, let him pray, if any be merry let him sing psalms; it's spoken generally, if any, or whosoever is merry let him sing, not that it is unlawful to sing at other times, for than it might be inferred it's not lawful to pray, but when one is sad, mirth is the most prayer season, in other places we read of singing when sad, as David often, and Christ a little before his suffering, when his heart was sorrowful, and and Silas in prison Paul: Thus you have express command for this duty. The Apostle, nor any of the holy men of God did ever command the world, as thou dost, to sing psalms, neither did he Answer. ever give the world an example to make rhymes of other men's conditions, and sing them in meeter, and though the Apostle saith to the Ephesians, speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your hearts to the Lord, and such like to the Colossians, yet this was not to the world, but to the saints and faithful Brethren, Coll. 1. 2. neither did the Apostle bid the saints sing other men's prayers, and cries, and complaints, and lamentations, as thou and thy generation do, who bid people sing to the praise and glory of God, where David said, thine arrows stick fast in me, neither is there any rest in my bones, my wounds stink and are corrupt, I am troubled, I am bowed down greatly, I go mourning all the day long, Psal. 38. and this you have gotten into a rhyme and meeter, and bids people sing: and there you make a sport of David's conditions, and makes people say they are so, in which conditions David never sang, but as he found deliverance from under the wrath of God, and when ever did thou or any of thy generation witness these conditions which David passed through, before the seed was brought forth: here thou Priest Clapham hast shut thyself both out of the Scriptures, and them that spoke them forth. And whereas thou sayst, that the Apostle alluding to the custom of drunkards; here again we charge thee Priest (Clapham) to be a liar, and a wrester of Scriptures, for the Apostle never spoke such a wo●d, as alluding to the custom of drunkards; here this thy Comparison is unequal, to compare the saints singing to the custom of Drunkards, neither did ever the Saints cal● singing a custom, or make a custom of it, as thou art going about to maintain, and whereas thou art going about to divide the psalms, as thou calls them, by these three Hebrew words, into psalms, hymns, and spiritual songs, Here, thou art ignorant both of psalms, hymns, and spiritual Songs, who art going about to divide psalms by thy confusion oftongues, and here thou art in Babel which God confounded into many languages, and there is thy ministry in thy confusion and Languages, which a natural man may learn, and there thy singing is in the custom without the spirit. But they that knew▪ how to sing with understanding, did sing with that which was before Babel was, and before thy confusion was, and before Sternhold, and Hopkins rhymes, which they made of David, which thou practices; and they that would sing a new song, was redeemed out of kindred's tongues and people, Rev. 5. 9 and this redemnption thou that livest in thy tongues and natural languages, art not come to; and the new Song and hymns thou art ignorant of; and whereas thou sayest that which James spoke was generally, there thou art a liar and a wrester of scripture, for the Scriptu●e saith, is any among you affl●cted, let him pray, is any among you merry, let him sing; but this was to the 12 Tribes, James 1. which he calls his Brethren, and that was among them, and not among thy generation, who live in forms and customs, who are strangers to the life of God: and again, thou art going to make the Apostle James a liar like thyself, who sayest, that mirth is the most prayer season, when as that Scripture saith, is any among you merry, let him sing; is any afflicted, let him pray; which is quite contrary to thy words. As for Paul and Silas singing in prison, their sufferings and imprisonments thou never yet was made partaker of, nor their joy thou never knew wherein it was, who art going about to maintain thy customs in the world, which thou hast no scripture for, but with it art disapproved, and with the the light thou art seen, to be a stranger both to the Saints joy and that wherein they rejoiced. There are several rules given in the New Testament, directing Priest. Arg. 5. how to sing aright, as 1 Cor. 14. with the spirit and with understanding, with grace in our hearts Col. 3. which directions were needless if it were no gospel duty. They that are brought to sing with the Spirit and understanding, Answer. they witness that life which spoke forth Scripture, and need not go and get other men's conditions made like ballads or songs, and sing them, or cause any in a custom to sing them, as thou dost in a steeplehouse, and these do not call the letter the rule, and the 4 books Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John the New Testament, and gospel as thou and thy generation do, for Paul said he was a minister of the Gospel, and of the New Testament, and not of the letter, which thou calls the gospel and New Testament, 2 Cor. 3. 6. and there both out of the gospel and new Testament thou art shut, and thy ministry is in the Letter which killeth, and thy Inventions and reasons and consequencies adds to it, and that thou makes a trade upon, and for it thou takes people's money, and there with the light we read thee in the Scriptures, to be among them the true prophets Christ and his Apostles cried woe against, such as seek for their gain from their quarter, Isa. 56. and such as are hirelings, Micah 3. and such as are called of men Masters, stands praying in the synagogues, having the chiefest places in the assemblies, and the uppermost rooms at feasts, and the greetings in Markets, which Christ cried woe against, Mat. 23. and such as go in the way of Cain to envy, and after the error of Balaam, for gifts and rewards which Peter and Jude cried woe against, 2 Pet. 2. Jude 11. and there thou art, and thee, thy Ministry, and thy singing we utterly deny, who art both shut out of the Scripture among the greedy dogs, and that life which spoke them forth, and thou seen to be among them, the Scripture witnesses against. Priest. Argument 6. And whereas in thy 6th. Argument thou sayest, that Christians may reap much profit or benefit by the right using of this ordinance, there's an efficacy in it, to lift up the heart more and elevate it in God's praises, and holy delight it brings to the soul therein, and art telling of mutual edification and provocation to rejoice in God, as drunkards by their songs stir up carnal and sinful mirth, so these help spiritual joy. They that are Christians do see thy blindness and ignorance Answer to the 6th. and last Argument. both of scriptures and that which spoke it forth, and Christians have not their joy to fetch out of other men's conditions, neither do they go to without, and yet David's prayers, praises, prophecies, cryings, tears, wastings, afflictions; in meeter to sing, to bring delight unto their soul, as thou art going about to maintain, there thou blind guide thou dost not know what it is that rejoices in God, nor what it is that praises him, for to thee it is hid, who makes a trade and custom of a dead form, and causes the dead to sing which cannot praise God, and there in the mutual and changeable state thou art in thy carnal inventions with Tubal-Cain the Inventor, and outward observations, and edification thou art not come to, who to uphold thy carnal singing and rejoicing dost bring a Comparison of the songs of drunkards, which the saints never did, here thee, thy singing; thy Joy and thy Ministry are shut out among the drunkards, and seed of evil doers and there is the fruits of thy Ministry, and of that sort are they that uphold thee, and speaks well of thee, as they did Luke 6. 26. 1 John 4, 5. thy fathers the false prophets, and among the false prophets and deceivers thou art with the Light seen and Judged, and the same woe which was to them is to thee now, who art found in their steps. Here (Priest Clapham) thy Arguments are answered, and the rest of thy rotten stuff which is not worth mentioning, with them comprehended, and seen with the light to be all acted, in thy filthy reason and Inventions, which are stuffed up with so many lies and wresting Scriptures as thou art here disproved in. So let shame cover thy face, and deceive people no longer with thy dreams and lying divinations, and customs, and outward observations which thou hast no scripture for, which here is plainly laid open to them who are not altogether blind, therefore make no more Merchandise of peole through thy covetousness, nor take people's money any more to maintain thee in thy deceits and filthiness, but make restitution to them whom thou hast deceived, and led in blindness, and give them their money again, which dishonestly thou hast taken upon them, of whom thou hast made merchandise: for the sword of the Lord is drawn against thee, and that generation thou art in, and woe and misery is the end of your songs, and your joy, and your profession of God and Christ, who are found acting those things, he and all the holy men of God witnessed against: The day of your trouble and torment and misery is coming upon you, woe, woe to you pastors that destroy and scatter the sheep of my pasture, saith the Lord: woe to you hippocrites and dissemblers who are acting in their See Isa. 56. 10, 11. Jer. 5. 31. Micah. 3. 11. Matth. 23. steps, the prophets, Christ and his apostles witnessed against, and are filling up the measure of your father's Iniquities; ye false prophets, and scribes, and pharisees, therefore stop your mouths in the dust, and never say you are Ministers of Christ, and his ambassadors, for your bottom and foundation is seen Jude 11. and tried, and your customs, traditions, and practices are with the light condemned, and human is all your worship there, who draw near unto God with your mouths and lips, and your hearts far from him, every one's heart after his own Isa. 29. 13. gain and filthy lucre, who teach for doctrines the traditions of men, and there you keep poor people in blindness, and makes a prey upon them, and tell them of outward ordinances, and duties, Col. 2. 14, 16, 20, 21, 22. and customs, as this Priest Clapham, wherein he is disapproved in his Arguments, and his folly made manifest, and so shall all yours who are of his generation, who live in pride and covetousness, and act those things ye have no scripture for, who 2 Tim. 3. 2● 7, 9 lead captive silly women laden with sins and iniquities, led away with divers lusts, everlearning, never able to come to the knowledge of the truth; but you shall proceed no further, for your folly shall be made manifest to all men. From us who are sufferers for the testimony of Jesus, whose names according to the flesh is Christopher Atkinson. George Whitehead. Something in answer to the High Priest's Paper, wherein he lays down 3 Principles, and several Resolves, as he calls them, wherein he goes about to resolve people that the light of Christ in the conscience, and that which doth enlighten every one that comes into the world, which light is Christ, is natural; and so to resolve them, that John's testimony of Christ is not true, as it is written in John 1. 9 and doth deny Christ's words to be true, who saith, he is the Light of the world, John 8. 12. John 3. 19, 20, 21. and in John 12. 46. But in the light of Christ he is seen and comprehended, yea the depth of his subtlety, and confusion, is here unfolded, and his Paper answered from the light of Christ, which he calls natural; but by it he is proved to be natural, and not to discern the things of God, though he pronfesse himself to be a Minister: but here his works are brought to the light, and he by it is proved to be no Minister of Ghrist, but a hater of the light, as John 3. 19, 20, 21. The Priests 1 Principle. THere are two Adam's from whom all men are, out of whose loins all men do come: the 1 Adam is a Fountain of all natural good; the 2 of that which is spiritual; and thou brings Scripture to prove it, 1 Cor. 15. 2, 22. Ephes. 5. 30. Gen. 2. 33. 1 Cor. 15. 45, 46. Answer. Art thou a teacher in England, and is this the principles of thy doctrine, to teach people that all men come out of the loins of the 2 Adam's, without distinction, and that the first Adam is the fountain of all natural good? here in the presence of the Living God I declare thee and thy principle to be false, for the first man is of the earth earthly; the second is the Lord from heaven, from whom is the fountain of all good: out of the loins of the first thou proceeds, but not from the second; and thy principle proceeds from thy ear●hly wisdom, which is in the fall, and cursed; and here again thou may read thy principle with shame and confusion of face, and repent before the Lord cut thee off, as a deceiver, who teaches for doctrine thy one conditions. The Priests 2 principal. In thy second principal thou speaks of two seeds, and that the first Adam was not the looser of mankind but his seed; and the 2 Adam was not the restorer of mankind, as so, but as his seed. Answer. I answer, here thou art twining like the serpent, to blind the eyes of people with thy lies, and doth cross the Scripture, which thou thyself brings in the former principle, 1 Cor. 15. 22. which saith, as in Adam all die, so in Christ shall all be made alive; and here thou denies Christ to be the restorer of mankind, and here thou art dark and blind, and preaches and writes against the end for which Christ came into the world; but restauration by Christ we do witness and life from the dead, and the seed of the promise we witness, brought out of captivity by Christ, and all who come to witness the same shall deny thee who denies Christ to be the restorer of mankind. The Priests 3 principal. In thy third principal thou sayest, the grace of life none is partaker of but the seed. Answer. Here thou crossest the Scriptures, which saith, the grace of God which brings salvation hath appeared unto all men, and some turn his grace into wantonness, and walk despitefully against the spirit of grace, Titus 2 12. and that is not the seed which turns it into wantonness, and walks deceitfully against it, for that is the seed which by grace is taught to deny all ungodliness and worldly lusts, but it hath appeared to those who abuse it, as thou dost who put forth these principles, and here thy principles is found lies, as thy Resolves are, which follow thy Principles: The priest's Resolves. Now to resolve people that the light of Christ in the conscience is a natural light, thou sayest, that the writing upon the heart of Gentiles is not new Covenant written, but old; so not of grace and Life but nature. Answer. I answer, here thou resolves them falsely, for the works of the Law being written in their hearts, this is not natural, which doth bear witness in the conscience, and either accuse or excuse, but is one in the covenant, spoken of in Jer. 31. 33. Heb. 8. 2. and here thou puts in Light for darkness, and darkness for light. Priest. Again thou speaks of two Images, the Image of God, and Image of Christ, and saith something of the Image of God remains after the fall, and brings Cer. 6. 9 to witness it, when as there is no such thing spoken of there, and thou sayest nothing of the Image of Christ, is found before calling. Answer. Here thou would make God and Christ two images, and so utters forth one lie after another, and denies the Scripture, which saith he, is the express Image of the Father, and thou sayest the first Image is natural, the second is spiritual, and here let all behold thy blasphemy who would make the Image of God natural, and the Image of Christ spiritual, and calls them two Images: stop thy mouth, and be ashamed for ever, for being a Teacher, who seeks to resolve people of such things as to deny God and Christ, and make them two Images, the one natural, and the other spiritual, and saith, something of the image of God is found in man after the fall▪ but nothing of the Image of Christ▪ O blind guide, that ever England should be deceived by such, but the Lord is now making you manifest, and in the light thou art comprehended, and thy subtlety is seen▪ and thou art now met withal, who hath long blinded the eyes of poor people with thy feigned words and subtle pretences, but here thou art discovered to be an enemy to that which in word thou professes, and so thy words will cover thee no longer, for the life hath found thee out▪ and by it thy spirit is tried to be the spirit of error, and voice to be the voice a stranger. Priest. Again thou speaks of a natural light, and says, natural Light puffs up, and quotes 1 Cor. 8. 1●2. Answer. Here out of thy own mouth thou art proved to be a perverter of the scriptures, for that scripture saith, knowledge puffs up: but the Scripture speaks of no natural light. Priest. Again thou sayst, natural light discovers the blessing of the first Covenant. Answer. This is false, for all the blessings is to the seed which is in the Covenant, and is the Covenant, but nature is out of the Covenant, and out of the blessing of all thy resolves, and light is contrary to nature, for light is spiritual, but thou art natural, who saith, the light is natural. Priest. Again thou sayest, natural light may convince of evil. Answer. This is false, and here thou art a Blasphemer to call Christ natural, for it is Christ that convinceth the world of sin, and the light which Christ Jesus hath enlighted every one, with all which convinceth them of evil, and thou that sayest this is natural, did never yet own that which doth convince of sin, the Light, which will condemn thee who hates it, and calls it natural▪ A Reply to the Priests Answers, to the Queries propounded to him. The 1 query. How is Christ the light of the world, and how doth he enlighten every one that comes into the world, if it be not in the Conscience? John 1. 9 Priest's Answer. Jesus Christ enlighteneth every man, with the light he hath, he is indeed the enlightening light, and not John: but it will not prove, because Christ quickeneth, that therefore with the same life, or there is no natural life for Christ: Saints light is the light of life, sinners, not so, not their life. Reply. In the light of Christ thou art seen and comprehended, for thy dark words cannot hide thy confusion, who in thy answer saith, Christ doth enlighten every man that comes into the world, and then would make the light of Christ which enlightens the sinner, not to be the same light which is in the saints, and here all who owns light in any measure, may see thy confusion, for the light of Christ is but one, and it is through the obedience to the light, in which they come to witness sanctification from sin, which now many do witness to the praise and glory of God, who is their teacher, what hast thou (Frederick Woodall) taught the people, all this while? who art a blind guide, for he that knows not the light of Christ is blind, for darkness hath blinded his eyes. The 2 query. How doth the spirit of Christ guide unto all truth, and show things to come, if it be not within the conscience. Priest's Answer. This endeavours the removal of the Ancient Bonds, making common the privileges of the Saints, and brings that Scripture, Jer. 24. 7. Reply. This Scripture Jer. 24. 7. shall stand to bear witness against thyself where the Lord saith, I will give them an heart to know me, that I am the Lord, and they shall be my people, and I will be their God; and the promise of Christ wherein he hath promised the spirit to guide them into all truth, and to show them things to come, and this thou sayest endeavours the removing of the Ancient bonds; I answer, It is to remove all such doctrine and such teaching as thine, and the priests of the world under which the seed of God is kept in bondage, and under the chains of darkness, and these thy bonds which thou layest upon the seed is as Ancient as since the fall, and hath kept people ever learning and never brought them to the knowledge of God, and now when God hath promised to give them an heart to know him without such teachers as thou art, and this is thy torment, but let this torment thee for ever till thy mouth be stopped, for it is so, we witness it. The 3 Query. How doth the spirit of Christ reprove the world of sin, of righteousness, and of judgement, if it be not in thy conscience. Priest's Answer. It is not the spirit in the world that reproves the world of sin, John 14. 17. but the spirit in the saints who are to Judge the world, 1 Corinth. 6. 2. the spirit in the saints by the light of truth. Reply. This thy answer, and these Scriptures do witness against thyself, and here thou art made to confess the truth, out of thy own mouth thou may be judged, as all who hate the light are, and here by the spirit of God in the saints and the light of truth art thou judged, and here if thou wilt own thy own words, own thy Judgement, for the saints do now judge the world, under which judgement thou art. The 4 query. How are the children of God taught of God, if it be not by the light of God in the conscience? Priest's Answer. This is absurd, as the second, this is the strength, you shall be all taught of God. Reply. It is thou that art dark, and blind, and obsurd, who would keep the people from the teachings of God, calling that absurd, that thy own teaching might be continued, and people be kept still in ignorance, and give thee money for such teaching, but the free teachings of God is now appearing, and thine must be denied which is not free. The 5 query. How can that be said to be a natural light which witnesses unto God in that which is holy, and against the natural Inclinations of fallen man, seeing the scripture saith, the natural man receives not the things of the spirit of God, 1 Cor. 2. 14. Priest's Answer. How can it be any other than a natural light which witnesses unto God in that which is holly? and against the things of the spirit of God, natural things it can discern, not spiritual, for as the man so is the light. Reply. Where did thou ever read of a natural light which did witness unto God in that which is holy, and that which did witness unto God, where dost thou prove that ever the same witness which did witness God in holiness did ever witness against the spirit of God, read thy confession, and let thy mouth be stopped, who speaks of a natural light, and of a natural holiness, which neither of them is mentioned in the scripture, nor from any of the ministers of Christ, therefore from them all art thou shut out, who art in a natural darkness. The 6 query. In this Query thou being required to prove how thou dost distinguish of a natural light, which thou so much speaks of▪ by their several operations. Priest's Answer. The diversity of operations are answered above. Reply. Here I witness against thee, for thou hast not proved in all that which is above written that there is two lights, natural, and spiritual, for the light is but one, in which thy confusion is seen and judged. The 7 query. How is Christ given a light to the Gentiles who had not the letter, and whether that was not the Light of Christ which showed the Gentiles the law of God written in their hearts, who had not the law without, and in which they did the things contained in the law, Rom. 2. 14, 15. Priest's Answer. Thou sayst this proves not Christ to enlighten the Gentiles. Reply. Thy answer is false, for herein is proved that the obedience of the Gentiles to that which was written in their hearts, in answering the law of God, and his commands, was from that which is invisible, which is the light of Christ; for that which is natural is visible, and there thou art in the visible, and in the natural, where the things of God is not received but stumbled at. The 8 query. If it be a natural light which checks and bears rule in the Conscience, than is not Christ alone Judge in the Conscience, but another ruler is set up before Christ come, 1 John 5. 22. Ephes. 2. 14. Priest's Answer. In thy answer thou queries whether the checks was in Adam, from the light, before Christ was revealed, and then again thou sayest in the next words following, that the checks of light from Christ the old Adam had. Reply. Here thou askest a question, and gives the answer thyself, to thy own confusion, and again thou sayest, that the old Adam had a conscience before the new was promised, and that his seed hath so: I answer, Christ which is the light, which checks for sin in the conscience was before Adam was, or the seed of Adam, which was Cain; of which generation thou and thy ministry is, and the light which is from the second Adam is now appeared to make all such as thou art manifest who are of the seed of the first Adam. The 9 Question. If that which excuseth or accuseth, and so is Judge of the Conscience, be a natural light, than all Judgement is not given to the Son: but you set up a judge in the Conscience before Christ. Priest's Answer. This query is but the eighth repeated, adding to the number, not to the weight. Reply. This light of Christ being to thee a stumbling block, and thou being ignorant of its checks in the conscience, art able to give no answer to it; but such as are serviceable to lay open thy weakness and nakedness to all, who shall read thy Answers, or the replies unto them. The 10 query. If that be a natural light which excuseth, and so gives peace in the conscience, than you set up a peace before Christ come, and here you deny him to be the Prince of peace, Matthew 2▪ 6. Priest's Answer. It's intolerable that Christ should be the Prince of peace. Reply. Here let all take notice that thou plainly denies Christ to be the Prince of peace, but it is well that thou hast uttered forth thy folly which hath so long been hid, and here thou speaks plainly thy own condition, for no peace hath ever Christ spoken unto thee, and therefore thou deniest him to be the prince of peace, but him we do witness, to be so, and thee to be among the wicked, whom my God faith there is no peace unto. The 11 query. If that be a natural light which shows the way towards God in the Conscience, and reproves, the untoward ways, than is not Christ the way to the Father, but you set up another way before him, John 14▪ 6. Priest's Answer. The sense of this query is hidden from me. Reply. Here in the Light thou art comprehended, and thy wisdom shout out, and thy senses darkened, and thou art one of them whom God hath hid these things from, and now stumbles, because thou hates the light which doth discover the way unto God, which light is Christ, who is the way, but is hid from those whose eyes are blinded by the God of the world: if thou hadst confessed this in the beginning of thy Paper, that the sense of all these things which here from the light is spoken is bidden from thee, and so have beed silent, than thy confusion in thy Principles, and in thy Resolves, and in thy Answers had not been so publicly made manifest as they now are, from the light which hath comprehended thee: and hidden the sense of these things from thee. The 12 query. If that by which men shall be judged and condemned by any outward teaching from the Letter, or by man, then by what was the Gentiles condemned who had not the Letter, outward teaching, and yet was to perish, nor doing the things contained in the Law, Rom. 2. 13, 14. Priest's answer. In this thy answer thou confessest the Gentiles shall be judged by the Law written in their hearts without the written Law, and before in all which thou hast writ thou hast writ that this was a natural light which Judges and condemns the disobedient to the righteous law of God, and thou sayest thus saith the Lord by my heart, scripture may try every voice. Reply. Thou art the false prophet, which saith, the Lord saith, when as he hath never spoken this unto thy heart, but by the Spirit of the Lord in those whom he hath spoken unto, is thy voice and thy spirit tried, and as thou sayest would make the Scriptures unnecessary, this is false, for they are of use and necessary to reprove thy deceit, and them we do witness, in the life of the spirit which gave them forth. The 13 query. If there be something in the creature naturally which is light, then how is it that the Scripture concludes all to be children of darkness, who are in their natural estate, and how is Christ said to be light to them that sit in darkness? Priest's Answer. Light and darkness, natural light, full of the wisdom of this world, but spiritual darkness. Reply. How darest thou profess thyself to be a Minister of Christ, and calls the light of Christ natural, and darkness spiritual, and here let all read thee, to be he which puts darkness for Light, and Light for darkness▪ The 14 query. Whether there be any other thing that convinceth of unbelief, but that which convinceth of sin in the conscience▪ seeing Christ saith, he shall convince the world of sin, because they believe not in him? John 16. 8, 9 Ephes. 5. 13, 14. Priest's Answer. The 14th. is the same with the 13th. answered there. Reply. Here let all see whether these 2 Queries be one, and let them read thy answer to them both, which is saying that the light in the conscience is natural and darkness spiritual. The 15 query. Whether do you find any Scripture that speaks of any Light that convinceth the conscience, but the light of Christ with the Law of God written in the heart. Priest's Answer. I say, all are not convinced, nor will not, till Christ come, Jud▪ 15. Reply. Here thou art the Antichrist which denies Christ come in the flesh, and would make people believe that Enocks prophecy is not yet fulfilled, which Jude did witness to be fulfilled, as Jude 15. and did witness Christ Jesus to be come, who fulfilled the Law and the Prophets; and John did witness that Christ was come to convince the world of sin, of righteousness, and judgement, and John in his Epistle did write, that he which did not confess Jesus Christ come in the flesh was an Antichrist, and we do witness the same, and there thou may read thyself, 1 John 4. 3. The 16 query. Whether it be not the Light of Christ which bears witness in thy conscience against all evil, and if it be not the Light of Christ, than man is not wholly fallen, but there is something in man Good before Christ come. Priest's Answer. I say double there was something good in man remaining after the fall. Reply. If so, that something good in man after the fall; whether is that good natural, or spiritual, and whether is not that estate of man which is in the fall natural, and so prove this from the Scripture, what it is that was not lost in man's fall which need no Christ to save: for Christ came to seek and to save that which was lost. And now to thee Frederick Woodall; Here thy confused Paper is answered in plainness, and art not flattered, for I love not to give flattering Titles to any, neither can I have any man's person in admiration for advantage. From a servant of the Lord, though counted a Deceiver by the generation of Priests, yet true; whose Name according to the shesh, is RICHARD HUBBERTHORNE, Prisoner of the Lord in Norwich Castle: The 20 day of the 12 month. THE END.