AN ACCOUNT OF THE CHURCH CATHOLIC: Where it was before the Reformation: AND, Whether ROME were or be the CHURCH CATHOLIC.  
IN ANSWER to II. LETTERS SENT TO Edward Boughen, D. D.  
We writ none other things unto you, than what ye read, or acknowledge,  2 COR. 1.13. 
Evigilate ad salutem, amate pacem, redite ad unitatem,  Aug. ep. 171. 
LONDON, Printed by E. Cotes, for Richard Reyston at the ANGEL in Ivy-lane, M.DC.LIII.   

To my Reverend friend Mr. Boughen Doctor in Divinity:  
These humbly present.  
SIR,  
BEcause I see in a conference zeal often turns to choler, and because it was desired I would put my mind in writing, that I might the more distinctly be understood, and thereby the better receive solution: I have here beneath set down what I desire to have shown (viz.) the Catholic Church distinct from the Church of Rome, and those in communion with her, which by your own propositions below is necessary to be shown to find the Catholic Church. If this you do, you may win a soul to your Church: If this you cannot do, I hope you will not accuse me for remaining where I am. I have made bold to trouble Mrs. M. at her conveniency to present this to you, and at your conveniency crave the favour of your Answer, and am  
SIR, Your Servant to command, T. B.   

I. You grant the Catholic Church to be always, (viz.) from the Apostles time to this time, visible.  
II. You say that the Church of Rome and those in communion with her, are not the Catholic Church, because they have grievously erred, and in one fundamental at least.  
Then by your saying, the Catholic Church must be distinct from the Church of Rome, and those in her communion.  
Wherefore I desire to be shown the Catholic Church distinct from the Church of Rome, and those in her communion for the last 1100 years; and if it cannot be shown, it will necessarily follow those were the Catholic Church, or else the Catholic Church was not always visible.   

To Mr. T. B:  
SIR,  
1. BY Letter you desire to have showed unto you the Catholic Church distinct from the Church of Rome, and those in communion with her: which was at our meeting manifested as plainly, as we can distinguish the whole body from a particular member, or a particular member from the whole body. The body is one thing, the member another; the body is totum compositum, the whole fabric; the member but a part of it. And this is the particular Church of Rome to the whole Catholic. 
(a) Chrysost. in 1 Cor. 12. Homil. 30.  Every member (as St. chrysostom teacheth) hath a proper and a common virtue: it hath likewise a peculiar, and a common form or shape. The hand hath not the shape or strength of the whole man; and yet by the mere shape we know, it is a man's hand. And though we know the Church of Rome by her form, that is, by her Faith and Government, to be a Church; yet hath she not the form or virtue of the whole Church, be she never so Catholic. If she have, then must the Catholic borrow her life and being from Rome, and not Rome from the Catholic. If this particular had the virtue of the whole, than Timothy and Titus might not have given Orders, or censured Delinquents, or redressed what was amiss at Ephesus and Crete, but by virtue of a Commission from the Church or Bishop of Rome. And yet 
(b) 1 Tim. 1.3.  St. Paul besought Timothy to abide at Ephesus, that he might charge some (those within his Diocese) that they teach no other doctrine then St. Paul had delivered. And 
(c) Tit. 1.5.  for this cause left he Titus at Crete, that he should redress what was amiss, and ordain Presbyters, as he had appointed him; not as the Church of Rome directed him. And this was before he had visited that City.  
2. But if the Church of Rome be the Catholic Church, Where was the Catholic Church before she became a Church? Was there one; or was there none? If one, than was not that the Roman; since there was yet no such Church. If none, what were 
(d) Act. 9.31.  those Churches throughout all Judea, and Galilee, and Samaria? This was before the Apostles parted from one another to teach all Nations: hitherto we find them in these quarters, and no other. And yet at that time the Catholic Church was in being, unless the Apostles Creed deceive us. For 
(e) Ruffin. in Symb. n. 10.  that was framed at Jerusalem, before the Apostles went about their great work. And for this end was it made, that it might be 
(f) Hanc credentibus dandam esse regulam statuunt. lb.  credentibus regula, a rule for believers; whosoever became Christian, he was to believe the Catholic Church: which he could not believe, if it were not in being.  
3. Secondly, if Rome be the Catholic Church, then if she be Orthodox, the Catholic Church is Orthodox; if she be Heretical or Schismatical, the whole Church must be Heretical or Schismatical, as she is. So the Church shall take denomination from her; with her she shall stand or fall. Great reason than we should have an eye to Rome, and rely upon her. But this Church hath been miserably Schismatical and Heretical. Schismatical; as is to be seen in Platina and Onuphrius; when she had sometimes two, sometimes three Bishops together; a double, a treble-headed, a monstrous Church. Whereas 
(g) Concil. Nic. can. 8.  in one City there ought to be but one Bishop. That she hath been sufficiently heretical, is confessed by your own men. And as long as she was in this state, she was no Church; 
(h) Cypr. Pompeio.  Haeresis enim Christi sponsa non est, Heresy is no Spouse of Christ; 
(i) Si Haeretici sunt, Christiani esse non possunt. Tertul. de Praescrip. c. 37.  her members not so much as Christians; if we may believe Tertull. and St. Cyprian. And St. Austin saith 
(k) Aug. de Deut. loc. l. 5. c. 10.  Haeretici non pertinent ad Ecclesiam Catholicam; Heretics do not so much as belong to the Catholic Church. So then they that confess Rome to be Heretical, grant her to be no Church. And yet who dares say, that the Catholic Church was Schismatical or Heretical, because Rome was so? This were to deny, to destroy the Church. For if Schismatical, she is no body, but shivers. If Heretical in the chief fundamentals, at least, Where's the Church? Unless, as there were 
(l) 2 Cor. 11.13.  false Apostles, so ye will have false Churches. Such Churches we will have nothing to do with, unless it be to pray for them, and to advise them to 
(m) Apoc. 2.5.  remember, from whence they are fallen, to repent, and to do their first works.  
4. Thirdly, if Rome be the Catholic Church, if any thing be amiss in any particular, the fault is hers, and she ought to mend it. If any man's hand fester, or foot be lame, if a remedy be not sought, the foot or hand are not blamed, but the man, because in time they were not looked to. The reason is, because not the hand or foot, but the man hath both discretion and power to provide a remedy for every member, that is amiss. Thus is it with the Church. This is enough to give any rational Christian satisfaction, that Rome is not the Catholic Church. More I should not have written; but that you charge me with certain Propositions; which, you presume, may stand you in much stead, to prove the contrary. I shall shall therefore descend to the Propositions, and your Inferences drawn from thence. The first whereof is this, as you are pleased to pen them.  You grant the Catholic Church to be always (viz.) from the Apostles time to this time, 
The first Proposition.  visible. 
5. I do so, both in and from the Apostles time to this present day. But I do not say, that it was always visible in one and the same place; no, not at Rome itself, you think so well of. It hath been more than once, even in that very City under a bushel. The Sun itself is so often under a cloud, that it is not seen in these parts; and yet visible it is in other places. 
(n) Quomodo solis multi radii, sedlumen unum? Cypr. de Unit. Eccles.  The Church is likened to the Sun, which hath many rays, and yet but one light. That light is not always in the same place, it removes with the Sun: the beams may decay, but the Sun itself and the light thereof cannot perish. The Church hath fruitfully increased far and wide into a multitude: but how many of these have crumbled into nothing? It is much like the Sea, which loseth in one place, and gains in another, and yet continues the same Sea. 
(o) I●.  Adulterari non potest Sponsa Christi, incorrupta est, & pudica; the Spouse of Christ cannot be corrupted. Corrupt ourselves we may, and departed from her integrity; but we cannot rob her of her essence, or integrity.  
6. The Church of God, I say, is always visible, and yet not to every eye: sometimes it is invisible not only to ordinary eyes, but even to the best of men. 
(p) 3. Reg. 19.10, 14.  Elijah himself complained to the Lord, that he, even he only was left alone to serve the Lord: whereas all other, in his esteem, were become Idolaters; no face of a Church left in all Israel. But the Prophet was mistaken, the Lord assures him, that 
(q) Ib. v. 18.  there were 7000 in Israel, whose knees had never bowed to Baal. And yet God tells him not where, nor what their names. A visible Church there was at that time, though not visible to Elijah. 
(r) 3. Reg. 18.13.  Visible it was to Obadiah, and to them that met in private Congregations (as in times of persecution, and with us at this day) these knew one another. And if that great Prophet could not discern the Church in his own days, and country; would you have me, who am no such Prophet, to point out, where the Church was, when the Western parts were overrun with Popish errors? Though I be not able to show where, yet it is more than probable, that there were in this very Island 7000 souls, that were not tainted with those errors. It is enough for us to prove them to be errors, to be against Scripture, and the received sense of the Ancient Church; and to cleanse ourselves from them.  
7. Certainly, under the Law God was not without a Church in Judah. Yet show me, he that can, where the visible Church was, when 
(s) 2 Chron. 12.1.  Rehoboam forsook the Law of the Lord, and all Israel with him. When the Prophet complained, that 
(t) 2 Chr. 15 3.  for a long season Israel had been without the true God, without a teaching Priest, and without the Law. When 
(u) Ib. c. 28.23. etc. 29.6, 7.  Ahaz shut up the doors of the Temple, and made Altars for false Gods in every corner of Jerusalem, and in the Cities of Judah. When 
(x) 4. Reg. 21.4, 5.  in the Courts of the Lords house, Manasseh built Altars for all the host of heaven: Had God at that time no visible Church, think you? or were those ignorant, faithless, idolatrous wretches the visible Church? Neither of these can be; needs therefore must God in those days have a visible Church, though the Scripture expresseth not where, nor who they were. And can we expect, that man's writings should be more exact than God's records?  
8. But God made a promise to the Apostles, that 
(y) S. Mat. 28.20.  he would be with them always, and with their successors, to the end of the world. He did so; and without question he made good this promise, although he were neither with Liberius, Honorius, nor John 22. I have learned of Gregory Naz. to 
(z) 
Qui candem fidei doctrinam profitentur, ejusdem quoque throni socius est. Qui autem contrariam sententiam tuetur, adversarius quoque in throno censeri debet.  
Greg. Naz. Orat. 21. n. 7.   distinguish between successors in place, and successors in faith. He will be with those that succeed in faith and function; not with those that succeed in function only, and not in faith. Let him sit in what throne he will, he is an adversary to Christ, if he be not a successor in the Orthodox faith. He that succeeds St. Peter, or any good Bishop, and is of a contrary Religion, 
(a) Ibid.  he succeeds them, just as a disease follows health, as darkness follows light, and frenzy steps into the chair of wisdom.  
9 Boast not too much of this promise: the like was made to the former Priesthood. 
(b) Num. 25.13.  To Phineas the Lord bequeathed the Covenant of an everlasting Priesthood; that is, to him and his seed, as long as that law was to endure. And yet we see, that 
(c) 2 Chr. 15.3.  for a long season Israel was without the true God, without a teaching Priest, and without the Law. Where then was the Church? where the Promise? 
(d) 4. Reg. 16.10, etc.  Vrijah the Highpriest built that Altar Damascenum, that abominable Altar, according to the pattern of that at Damascus. On that he offered, and did many other things contrary to God's law. 
(e) 3. Reg. 1.7.25.  Abiathar was a Traitor; 
(f) 2 Mac. 4.8.  Jason a Simoniack, and a profane wretch; and 
(g) Ib. v. 25. etc.  Menelaus one of the veriest beasts that ever lived. Where was then the Priesthood? where the true Religion? And yet we dare not say, that God failed of his promise, or wanted a visible true Church in those days. But if it be inquired in whom, and where; it will be an hard matter for either or both of us to manifest. Truth it is, God will continue a Church, though bad people and Priests abuse it. He, and only he, can discern, and distinguish the wheat from the chaff, and 
(h) Apoc. 4.3.  those few in Sardis, that had not defiled their garments, from the multitude that had. 
(i) Ingemuit totus orbis, & see Arianum esse miratus est. Hieron. count. Lucifer. c. Vincent. Lirin. c. 6.  The world groaned, and wondered to see itself all Arian. But God sees not as man sees; at that time he had a Church; and his eyes beheld it; though it were very difficult for man to point it out. Visible it was to some, and those not over many. Thus much for the Visibility of the Church.  
10. It is time now to look toward the second proposition, wherewith you charge me; which is this, You say, the Church of Rome, 
The second Proposition.  and those in communion with her, are not the Catholic Church, because they have grievously erred, and in one fundamental at least.  
What ever I said, I am sure, I have manifested, that the Church of Rome, and those particular Churches in her communion, are not, cannot be, the Catholic Church, no more than some parts of man may be said to be the whole man, or 
(k) The Church is called the House of God, 1. Tim. 3.15.  some parts of an house to be the whole house. But as for the reason, which you impose upon me, I am certain, I never gave it. I never said, these were not the Catholic Church, because they have grievously erred, and in one fundamental at least. This reason was not, could not be given for that purpose; neither was it needful, or useful. For had it never erred, the Catholic it could not be, a Catholic it might be; a part, but not the whole. If these, you speak of, be the whole, all other are excluded: and that, your party most uncharitably aims at. Take Rome at the best, at the highest, 
(l) Concil. Nic. can. 6.  she hath her privileges among many; not over all: other Provinces must enjoy theirs. And divers Bishops have as large territories, as ever justly had your Pope of Rome. He that hath a desire to know the truth of this, let him consult the 6 Canon of Nice; the 2 & 3 of Constantinople; the 28 of Chalcedon, with the 28 & 125 Canons of the African Code: and he shall quickly discern, that Rome in those days was no such wondrous Church. She, no less than others, had her bounds, which she might not pass.  
11. But, I remember, well, I said, that if there were no other cause, than the maiming of the Lords Supper, I could not communicate with the Church of Rome. The reason is, because our Saviour ordained it to be given in both kinds; and ye have most sacrilegiously rob the Laity of his blood. By this means ye make the people unfit for martyrdom, if St. Cyprian mistake not. 
(m) Cyp. l. 1. ep. 2  Quomodo (saith that Father) ad martyrii poculum idoneos facimus, si non eos ad BIBENDUM prius in Ecclesia POCULUM DOMINI jure communicationis admittimus? How can we make them fit for the cup of Martyrdom, if first in the Church we do not by right of communion admit them to DRINK THE CUP OF THE LORD? And again, 
(n) How can we shed our blood for Christ who are ashamed to drink the blood of Christ? Cypr. l. 2. ep. 3.  Quomodo possumus propter Christum sanguinem fundere, qui sanguinem Christi erubescimus bibere? No, may the people say, we are not ashamed to drink it; but ye are ashamed to give it us to drink; at least to acknowledge the wrong, that ye have done us. We have a right to drink it, but ye have barred us from our right. Thus ye have gone against the sense and practise of the Primitive Church. Ye have also departed from the Institution of Christ, 
(o) Ex Christi institutione Sacramenta virtutem obtinent. Tho 3 q 64.3. c  from which the Sacraments receive their force and virtue. What efficacy then can your half Sacrament be of?  
12. But for your further satisfaction, I add; First, The Church of Rome, and those in communion with her, are not the Catholic Church exclusiuè, solely excluding others; however divers of that faction appropriate that title to them. And yet 
(p) Art. 19  we grant Rome herself to be a Church, that is, a member of the one Catholic, though an erroneous member; as a vicious man is a man, or as an ulcerous member is a part of the body. Though we see her errors, we deny not her essence; but wish she were cleansed from her corruptions. Secondly, a particular Church cannot be styled the Universal, and Catholic signifies nothing else; 
* Si hominem dicas, jam quemvis hominem dixisti. Athan. de definite. tom. 2. p. 45.  no more than Socrates can be said to be Home in specie, all, or the only man. Neither can we affirm, that man is the only animal, the only sensitive creature, though the most excellent. Yet in the third place, though we deny you to be the Catholic, we acknowledge you to be a Church. 
(q) Archbishop Lawd. §. 20. n. 3.  For that Church, which receives the Scripture as a Rule of faith, though but as a partial and imperfect Rule; and both the Sacraments as instrumental causes and seals of grace, though they add more, and misuse these; yet cannot but be a true Church in essence.  
13. It is not then every abuse of Scripture and Sacraments; but 
(r) Haeretici de Deo falsa sentiendo ipsam fidem violan. Quapropter non pertinent ad Ecclesiam Catholican. Aug. de Deut. locut. l. 6. c. 10.  the razing of the foundation, that ruins a Church, and makes that to be none, which heretofore was one. Of the essence of the Church, I take to be these two; 
(s) Omnes haereses ad utramque formam à nostris Ecclesiis provocatae probent se, quaquâ putant, Apostolicas. Tertul. de Praescrip. c. 32.  the Catholic faith, and the Apostolic government. The former is the soul of the Church, and gives it life; the other is as the sinews thereof, which knit the members together firmly into one body. Without the former it is built upon sand; and without the other it cannot last. 
(t) Heb. 11.6.  Without the Catholic faith we cannot please God; and without a Bishop the Sacraments will quickly cease. Yea the very communion of the Church must fail; since, according to St. Austin's rule, 
(u) Non possunt communicare nisi iis quos sedere in sedebus Episcopalibus audiebant. Aug. ep. 163.  we may not so much as hold communion with any, that have not Episcopal Sees. Since than ye profess the Catholic faith, and continue the Apostolic government, though mixed with corruptions and encroachments, 
(x) Archbishop Lawd. § 2● n. 2.  we grant you to be a true, but not Orthodox Church. For 
(y) Integritatis custodes, & recta sectantes. Aug. de verâ Rel. c. 5.  Orthodox Christians are keepers of integrity, and followers of right things. Of which the Church of Rome is neither.  
14. If then, according to your charge, I did say, that the Roman Church had grievously erred, and in one fundamental at least; yet as then, so now, I am, have been, and ever shall be loath, to deny her to be a true Church; since without the Church, no salvation. If you will make her no Church, or a false Church, and put yourselves out of all hope, I can pity you, but not help it. Indeed, the pride of that See is such, she will be all, or nothing; either the Catholic, or no Church. It is not therefore to her content, to yield her to be a Church, since that implies no more, then that she is a member of the whole. Alas, the Universal she cannot be; 
(z) Sicut universa terra ex multis terris, & unviversa Ecclesia ex multis constat Ecclesiis. Aug. de Civ. Dei. l. 13. c. 13.  that consists of many Churches, as the whole earth consists of many lands and countries: and yet but one Earth, and one Church. Neither of them is couped up, or confined within the largest Continent. For my part, I profess with St. Austin, that 
(a) Aug. contr. Crescon. Gram. l 3. c. 35.  I am in that Church, cujus membra sunt omnes illae Ecclesiae, quas ex laboribus Apostolorum natas atque firmatas simul in literis canonicis novimus, the members whereof are all those Churches, which in Scripture we know to have been planted and confirmed by the Apostles industry. And 
(b) Earum communionem, quantum me adjuvat Dominus, sive in Aphricâ, sive ubicunque non deseram. Ib.  their communion, with God's assistance, I shall never forsake, whether in England, or elsewhere; unless these forsake the truth. I shall never leave the Universal to side with any particular Church. And I would advise your Masters to take heed, lest while, with the Dog in the Fable, they catch at too much, they lose all.  
15. 
(c) Cyprian. de unit. Eccles.  The Church (according to St. Cyprian) is like a Tree, whose boughs are many, but the body one, firmly rooted. Ab arbore frange ramum, fructus germinare non poterit; break the best arm from this body, it will bear no fruit for heaven; the branch itself will whither, and rot, and come to nothing. Hath that Church, you speak of, been heretofore a glorious and happy Church? Glory not too much in that, 
(d) Ro. 11.18.  boast not over the rest of the branches, that have been less successful; thou bearest not the root, but the root thee; thou art but graffed in, as the rest were: and 
(e) Ib. v. 17.  with them thou partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree. Remember also, though there be many branches, yet there is but one original, one root, that yields sap, and life, and fruit to every bough, great or small. Suppose thou be the top-bough, yet rend not, suffer not thyself to be rend, from this body. Take heed of this, lest thou become fuel for that dreadful fire.  
16. That the Church of Rome hath grievously and dangerously erred, I need no witnesses but your own family. Stapleton justifies, that 
(f) Stapleton. Relect. count 1. q. 5. A. 3.  there is scarce any sin, that can be thought by man (Heresy only excepted) with which that See hath not been foully stained; especially from the 800 years after Christ. But 
(g) Stella in luc. 22.31.  Stella, and 
(h) Almain. l. 3. D. 24. q. 1.  Almain grant freely, that some of the Bishops of Rome did fall into heresy; and so ceased to be heads of the Church. And though some of that Church's errors at this day be dangerous to salvation, yet 
(i) Archbishop Lawd. §. 20. n. 23.  that judicious Bishop, I then spoke of, would not venture to set down, what errors in doctrine may give just cause of separation in this body, or the parts of it one from another. Neither shall I, by God's grace, be overbold in this point.  
17. The points fundamental are contained in the Creed; which is (as the Council of Trent speaks) 
(k) Concil. Trid. Sess. 3.  Et fundamentum firmum & unicum, not the firm alone, but the only foundation. And Bellarmine resolves, that 
(l) Bellar. de Verb. Dei non Scrip. l. 4. c. 11.  All things simply necessary for all men's salvation, are expressed in the Creed and Deealogue. If ye have erred in any of these, and grown obstinate in this error, ye are become an Heretical Church in battering the foundation. And yet we must take notice, that 
(m) Archbish. Lawd. § 11. n 1.  every thing fundamental is not of a like nearness to the foundation, nor of equal primenesse in the faith. For there are 
(n) The. 2 a. 2 ●. q. 1. Art. 7. c.  quaedam prima credibilia, certain prime principles of faith, in the bosom whereof all other Articles lie wrapped and folded up. What ever Church denies or disbeleives any of these, ceaseth to be not only Orthodox, but Catholic, and so no member of the true Church; since 
(o) 1. S. Jo. 4.3.  every spirit, that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh, is not of God, but is that spirit of Antichrist. Now, if ye have at any time denied 
(p) Ib. c. 5.20.  this Jesus Christ to be the true God and eternal life, ye were at that time no Church, but an Antichristian Synagogue. But this did Marcellinus, and Liberius, and John 22. (all Bishops of Rome). In those times therefore ye were no Church, but an Antichristian Synagogue. 
(q) Cypr. Pomp.  Haeresis enim Christi Sponsa non est, since Heresy is not the Spouse of Christ.  
18. If you doubt of the Minor, Stella makes that good; for he testifies, that 
(r) Stella in luc. 22.31.  Marcellinus sacrificed to Idols; that Liberius assented to the Arians; that is, he denied our Saviour to be of one and the same substance with the Father: and that John 22. affirmed, that God the Son is greater than the Father and the Holy Ghost. These batter and undermine the foundation; which what ever Congregation does, it apostatizeth, and is no Church. While then Rome did, and believed thus, neither she, nor any of those that communicated with her in these, or any of these heresies, 
(s) Nulla societas fidei & perfidiae potest esse. Qui cum Christo non est, adversarius Christi est. Cypr. l. 1. ep. 3.  were so much as a Church, much less the Catholic Church. Especially since all these are contrary to the Creed and Catholic faith: 
(t) Athan. Cre.  which faith except every one do keep whole and undefiled, without doubt he shall perish everlastingly. This Creed our Church appeals to, whether Catholic, or not Catholic; this is the faith she desires to be saved by. He, that faithfully believes this Creed, is a Catholic; but he, that believes it not, is no Catholic, neither can he be saved. I am one of Athanasius his Catholics; and with God's blessing I shall live and die so.  
19 But I know, what you drive at. You were pleased to ask, where our Church was before the Reformation? It was answered, in the Catholic. Next, you inquired, whether the Catholic were always visible? The reply was affirmative; both here, and in other places. But before the Reformation we communicated with Rome; and since we have not. That's no fault of ours; ye will not suffer us to communicate with you, unless we communicate with your errors. And yet we shall, maugre Satan, communicate with the Catholic Church, while 
(u) Ro. 15.6.  with one mind and one mouth we glorify God, even the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, according to this, the Nicene, and the Apostles Creed. While we pray for the Church Universal, and for all Bishops, Pastors, and Curates thereof: While we pray for all God's people; for all that have erred, and are deceived; even for our enemies, persecutors, and slanderers: While we continue the Apostolic government; and while we not only receive, but administer the Sacraments according to Christ's holy Ordinance, we shall be in the communion of the Catholic Church.  
20. Truth it is, as that judicious Bishop told Mr. Fisher, 
(x) Archbishop Lawd. § 21. n. 1.  the cause of the Schism is yours; for ye thrust us from you, because we called for Truth, and redress of abuses. What was then to be done? must we swallow untruths, and wink at abuses, that we may collogue and communicate with you? It had not wont to be so; every Province had wont to reform itself. And so she did not transgress the Faith or Canons of the Church Catholic, the reformation was both legal and commendable. We did so with our Provinces, following therein the ancient Canons of the Church, which assure us, that 
(y) Concil. Constantinop. can. 2.  every Provincial Synod is to order all things within the Province. And for full satisfaction, those Fathers of Constantinople justify this Canon by the Decrees of the Nicene Council. Indeed sometimes 
(z) Ib. can. 6.  it may happen, that the business will prove to be of such consequence and circumspection, that a Provincial Synod is not fit to determine it. What is then to be done? That very Canon says, 
(a) Ib.  in such a case we must not make our address to a General Council; but to a greater Synod of the Bishops of that Diocese, called together for that purpose. But we must observe, that in the ancient both Civil and Ecclesiastical acceptation, 
(b) Dixcesis multas sub se habet provincias. Balsam. in conc. Chalced. Can. 9  a Diocese contains in it many Provinces. This Council we ought not to decline, by molesting the Emperor, or any secular Magistrates, with complaints; as our late Ministers have done. This is not canonical, and the complaint is not to be admitted. We are therefore to take notice, that 
(c) Notit. Imp. l. 2. c. 48.  the three Britain's were a Diocese of themselves, and had a Praefectus Praetorio for Civil, and a Primate for Ecclesiastical affairs. 
(d) Cantuariae prima sedes Archiepiscopi habetur, qui est totius Angliae Primas & Patriarcha. Guil. Malmesbur. in Prologo l. 1. de Gest. Pontif. Angl. p. 195.  The Primate or Patriarch is the Archbishop of Canterbury. So then our Reformation is not after any new, or lately invented model; it is according to the ancient course and canons of the Church; and therefore justifiable. If we had taken any other course in our Reformation, we had done amiss. For according to the Council of Constantinople, 
(e) Concil. Constantinop. can. 6.  we had run into an high contempt; 1. by slighting all the Bishops of this Diocese; 2. by injuring the Canons; and 3. by subverting the Ecclesiastical order and government.  
21. In submission to these Canons, the Church did usually reform both in manners and faith, by Diocesan or Provincial Counsels: as is to be seen in the Code of the Universal Church, in the African-Code, in Balsamon and Zonaras, in the Counsels of Spain, and in the Counsels of England, set forth by that pious and worthy Knight Sir Henry Spelman. Much in this kind is readily presented to every eye by our learned Archbishop § 24. n. 4. Where you may see this course approved by your own learned men, 
(f) Alb. Mag. in 1. Dist. 11. A. 9  Albertus Magnus, and that 
(g) Gerson de Gen. Concil. Vnius obedien. part. 1. p. 222.  famous Chancellor of Paris, to be not only lawful, but sometimes necessary. Indeed to what purpose is it, to justify that to be 
(h) Perfecta Synodus illa est, cui interest & Metropolitanus Episcopus. Cod. Eccles. univers. Can. 95.  a full, a perfect Synod, wherein a Metropolitan is present, if it may not upon just occasion amend, what is amiss within her own precincts? What is it then a perfect Synod for? Otherwise Israel must not have reform without Judah, nor Judah without Israel. Neither must Laodicea have cast off her wicked courses, unless the rest of the Churches in Asia would have joined in the Reformation. They, that dare say this, are wiser than God Almighty. For he calls to every one of these in particular, to repent, and amend with in themselves, what is faulty. And though Timothy had failed of his duty at Ephesus, it had been no excuse for Titus to wink at abuses and disorders in Crete. 
(i) Hos. 4.15.  Though Israel transgress, yet let not Judah sin.  
22. Hitherto my Propositions, as you term them; from whence you infer, as a necessary consequence, thus;  Then by your own saying, 
The Inference.  the Catholic Church must be distinct from the Church of Rome, and those in her communion. 
It must be so, just as a reasonable creature is distinct from Socrates, the species from the individuum, or particular person. Socrates is a reasonable creature; but not all, not the only reasonable creature: every individual person is as much man, as much a reasonable creature, and hath as much of man in him, as Socrates. This will be the more easily discerned, if we look upon St. Paul's comparison, 
(k) 1 Cor. 12.  who likens the Church to a body consisting of many members. One member is not the body, nor the body one member, but many. The body receives not life from the members, but every member from the body. The body can live without the hand, or foot, or eye; indeed without all these: but none of these can live, when severed from the body. The Catholic Church hath subsisted without the Church of Rome, but the Church of Rome cannot subsist without the Catholic. The Church did stand without Rome, before Rome was a Church. And the Church was visible in the time of Marcellinus, Liberius, and John 22. when Rome was no member thereof. 
(l) Cypr. de unit. Eccles.  Adulterari non potest Sponsa Christi; though Rome defile herself, the Spouse of Christ is not, cannot be made an Harlot. The tree is sound, though the leaves fall, and one or more branches be broken off. The fountain flows comfortably, though a rivulet be cut off. The reason is, because 
(m) Jer. 2.13.  Christ, and no particular Church, is the fountain of living waters, 
(n) 8. Jo. 4.14.  that spring up into everlasting life. and they that seek to him for this water, as they ought, shall be sure to have it. Or, as St. Cyprian speaks, the Church is 
(o) Cypr. de unit. Eccles.  luce Domini perfusa, she hath her light not from Rome, but from 
(p) S. Jo. 1.9.  that true light, which enlightens every man, that comes into the world. And we shall be no longer 
(q) S. Mat. 5.14.  the light of the world, than we are furnished with this light.  
23. So then, since you will needs have it so, the time was when there was a necessity for the Catholic Church, not only to be distinct, but divers from the Church of Rome, and those in her communion; otherwise there had been no Church. I shall give you a satisfactory instance. When Liberius Bishop of Rome turned Arian, to recover liberty, and an honourable Bishopric; when all Italy and Spain sided with him in that heresy, than was the Catholic distinct from Rome, and those in her communion. For these (if we may believe 
(r) Haeretici non pertinent ad Ecclesiam Catholicam. Aug. Locut. de Deut. l. 5. c. 10.  St. Austin and 
(s) Si Haeretici sunt, Christiani esse non possunt. Tertul. de Prescript. c. 37.  Tertullian) had no share in the Church, they were not so much as Christians, because Heretics. St. Hilary of Poictieurs lamented the infamous lapse of this Bishop, professing publicly thus, 
(t) Hilar. Pict. de Synodis. p. 287.  Ex eo intra nos tantum communio Dominica continetur; from that time forward the Lords communion is continued AMONG US ONLY. Only us? And who are these? that he clears suddenly after in these words; 
(u) Ib. p. 288.  Quidam ex vobis firmissima fidei constantia INTRA COMMUNIONEM SE MEAM CONTINENTES, SEACAETERIS EXTRA GALLIAS ABSTINUERUNT: Some of you, with a most firm constancy of faith, containing themselves within my communion, abstained from others without France. Here then was no communion with Rome, unless you can prove Rome to be in France; and yet, I hope, a Catholic communion. Boast not then too much of the Roman Church. We see in what state it hath been; and into the same state, without God's great mercy, it may fall again. And when such cause is given, it shall be lawful for us in like manner, to hold communion within ourselves, in the three Britain's, even in England only. And now, I think, I have showed you the Catholic Church distinct from the Church of Rome, and those in her communion; such a one, as would have nothing to do with Rome, while Heretical.  
24. I have done with the Propositions: your desire remains, which requires a large library, and a younger man; for your words are these;  Wherefore I desire to be shown the Catholic Church distinct from the Church of Rome, and those in her communion, for the last 1100 years. 
What? will no less serve the turn then 1100 years; and those together? what's the meaning of this? I never undertook any such thing; neither, as I know, hath this Church, or any of the Fathers thereof said any such thing. 
(x) Art. 19  Our Articles acknowledge the Church of Rome to be a Church, and call her so. But withal we say, that 
(y) Ib.  those of her communion have erred, not only in their living and manner of ceremonies, but also in matters of faith. And this hath been prettily well proved out of your own men. So a Church it is, though erroneous. We have never declared her to be no Church; neither have our Articles hitherto charged her with Heresy; but 
(z) Art. 22.  with fond doctrines, vainly invented, and founded upon no warranty of Scripture. Yea, something we blame you with, 
(a) Art. 29.  that is repugnant to the plain words of Scripture. Four opinions of this kind my Lord of Canterbury taxeth you with; viz. 
(b) Archbishop Lawd §. 33. n. 13  1. Transubstantiation. 2. The administration of the blessed Sacrament to the Laity in one kind. 3. Invocation of Saints: and, 4. Adoration of Images. Ye have not hitherto quitted yourselves of this Indictment; and while his book stands unconfuted, I shall believe, that ye are justly charged with these unsound and uncatholick doctrines.  
25. Besides, we acknowledge, that 
(c) Art. 26.  in the visible Church the evil be ever mingled with the good. That sometime the evil have chief authority in the ministration of the Word and Sacraments. These we deny not to be visible members of the Church; but grant, that 
(d) Ib.  the effect of Christ's Ordinance is not taken away by their wickedness. Though these be bad in and to themselves, ofttimes their calling does good to others, like 
(e) S. Mat. 23.2. etc.  the Scribes and Pharisees in Moses chair. We are not then so forward to make a separation, as ye are taught to believe. Indeed, hardly any but the Church of Rome, hath been so touchy, as to excommunicate whole Churches upon slight occasions. 
(f) Euseb. hist. l. 5. c. 24.  What a stir did Bishop Victor keep about the observation of Easter? He excommunicated divers Churches, because they would not stoop to his lure. 
(g) Ib.  Verum ista caeteris omnibus parum placebant: but this was little pleasing to the rest of the Bishops, and among them, to that famous Bishop of Lions, Ireneus. Who with divers other 
(h) Victorem graviùs & acerbiùs coarguebant. Ib.  sharply checked and reproved him for it. These considered, that no member can cut off another without mischief to the whole body, even to itself. And the hand ought not to do it without a commission from the head. For 
(i) Neque quisquam nostrum Episcopum se esse Episcoporum constituit: aut tyrannico terrore ad obsequendi necessitaiem collegas suos adegit. Cypr. in Conc. Cart. ag.  there is no Bishop of Bishops, as ye conceive: neither may any one Bishop excommunicate another of his own proper authority. 
(k) Apost. Can. 34. & Cod. Eccles. Vnivers. Can. 88  This is the work of a Synod of Bishops. Whoever does it of his own head, offends against the practice of the Church, the Canons, and Scripture itself.  
26. Thus also 
(l) Euseb. hist. l. 7. c. 4.  Bishop Steven, though otherwise a good man, carried himself very high, about rebaptising Heretics. Whether zeal, or that vain conceit of St. Peter's Chair transported him, I know not; but this I am sure of, he excommunicated all those, that rebaptized Heretics. But what said that great Bishop of Cappadocia, Firmilianus, 
(m) Firmilian. apud Cyp. ep. 75.  Teipsum excidisti, noli te fallere, mistake not thyself, thou Bishop of Rome; while thou goest about to cast out others, by this presumption thou hast cut off thyself from the body of Christ, which is his Church. In those days he had no such power. How he since came by it, is laid open to your and every bodies eyes, by Archbishop Lawd, § 25. n. 12.  
27. But why for the last 1100 years? Is it because ye dare not trust to the former ages? Wherein we find 
(n) Lira in S. Mat. 16.  Zepherinus to be a Montanist, Marcellinus an Idolater, Liberius an Arian, and Vigilius an Eutychian. All Bishops of Rome, but no Catholics. Needs therefore in their times must the Catholic Church be distinct from the Church of Rome. Or is it because for trial of the truth of Religion, I appealed to the 500 years' next after our Saviour? I profess, I did, and do so; because it is common in these days, even with those that conscientiously pretend to truth, 
(o) Tanta est quorundam errandi libido, ut contenti non sint traditâ semel & acceptâ antiquitus credendi regulâ; s●d nova ac nova in diem quaerant, semperque aliquid gestiant religioni addere, mutare, detrahere. Vinc. Lirin. c. 26.  not to be content with the rule of faith, which was once delivered to the Saints, and received from them by the Primitive Church, and so transmitted to posterity. But we have an itching after new inventions; and our glory it is, either to add, or alter, or pair off something from Religion. These courses I abhor with a perfect hatred, and am taught to do so by Tertullian, and Vincent. Lirinensis. Yea, some of your own Bishops have resolved, that 
(p) Ib. c. 9  Religion admits of no other course but this, ut omnia, qua fide a Patribus suscepta forent, eadem fide filiis consignarentur; that all things be preserved for the children with the same faith, wherewith they were received from the primitive Fathers. And 
(q) Nosque Religionem, non quâ vellemus, ducere, sed potius quâ illa duceret, sequi oportere. Ib.  we must not lead Religion whither we please; but rather we must follow whither that leads. This was the resolution of Stephen Bishop of Rome, an holy and prudent man, as Vincentius terms him. 
(r) Ib. c. 43.  Xistus likewise and Celestinus are of the same mind, they will endure no innovations, no additions to Antiquity. Oh, that Rome had always kept close to this rule; then should we have had no such ruptures in the Church, as we now complain of, and bewail.  
28. And reason good we have to appeal to Antiquity, which is not partial towards you, or us, but indifferent to both. 
(s) Ib. c. 8.  She never held it meet to maintain the faction, or conspiracy of any one Province; but 
(t) Apud ipsam Ecclesiae vetustatem non partis alicujus, sed universitatis ab iis suscepta est defensio. Ib.  she stood up in defence of the whole Church, and not for any part thereof. And he can be no good Christian, that does otherwise. St. Cyprian is altogether for this course; 
(u) Cypr. Pomp.  if any thing be amiss, he sends us to the spring head, to find out the fault. The like counsel is given by Ireneus, 
(x) Iren. l. 5. c. 4.  If difference arise about any small question, nun oporteret in antiquissimus recurrere Ecclesias, in quibus Apostoli conversati sunt, & ab iis de praesenti quaestione sumere, quod certum, & quod liquidum est? aught we not to have recourse to the most ancient Churches, (not to that in being) wherein the Apostles themselves conversed; and from those to take that which is certain and clear about the present question. Observe; from thence we shall have that, which is certain. Why then shall we content ourselves with uncertainties? That therefore the third General Council might deal clearly, and upon sure grounds with Nestorius, 
(y) Vincent. Ligrin. c. 42.  it took this very course; holding it to be Catholicissimum, foelicissimum, atque optimum factu, most Catholic, most happy, and meetest to be done, to take into consideration the sentences of those holy Fathers, that were before them. Those they took to be their Masters, their Counsellors, Witnesses and Judges. Their doctrine they held close to, their counsel they followed, to their testimony they gave credit, to their judgement they submitted, and answerably thereto passed sentence upon the difference then in agitation. Blame not us then, if we appeal to the Fathers, and 
(z)  rite atque solenniter ex eorum consensu atque docreto antiqui dogmatis Religio confirmaretur, & prophanae novitatis blasphemia condemnaretur. Ib.  by their unanimous writings judge of Religion, that so we may keep to the old Rules, and avoid the blasphemies of profane novelty. This was the proper, the only way then known, and is now, readily to discern, without prejudice, presumption, or partiality, whether ye or we be in the right; what is Orthodox, and what not. At this tribunal let us stand, or fall.  
29. All this will hardly prevail with you. For (say you) if this cannot be shown, it will necessarily follow, those were the Catholic Church, or else the Catholic Church was not always visible.  
Sir, if you can distinguish between man in specie and Socr●●●s, you may quickly distinguish between the Catholic Church and Church of Rome. For as man is substantially predicated of many differing in number; so is the Church. Though St. Peter be a man, yet is he not the only man; Judas is a man, as much as he; they both communicate in the same essence, in the same definition; the one is as much a reasonable creature as the other. And it will not excuse the Church of Rome from being erroneous, because it is called a Church, and hath the same definition with other Churches. Good and bad, Orthodox and Erroneous come not into the definition. The only definition, or description, of the Catholic Church, that I find in Scripture, is this, 
(a) 1 Tim. 3.15.  The Church is the pillar and ground of truth. From whence I argue, thus;  
That Church, which hath erred, is not the pillar and ground of truth.  
But the Church of Rome hath erred: Ergo,  
The Church of Rome is not the pillar and ground of truth.  
The Major is undeniable; the Minor I prove thus:  
That Church which hath professed Montanisme, Arianisme, Eutychianisme, hath erred.  
But the Church of Rome hath professed all these.  
Ergo, The Church of Rome hath erred.  
The Major is clear; and the Minor is sufficiently proved, § 18.27. It follows therefore necessarily, that the Church of Rome, neither was, nor is the Catholic Church. And yet the Catholic Church was then visible, when the Church of Rome fell from the Catholic faith, and ceased to be a Church. 
(b) Euseb. hist. l. 5. c. 15.  Montanus, and his Enthusiasms, were censured, and condemned by the Bishops of Asia, in divers Synods. In those days, when Arianisme prevailed at Rome, the Catholic Church was visible 
(c) Theodoret hist. l. 3. c. 4.  at Alexandria, in Sardinia, in France, and other places; all which adhered to the Nicene Creed. We know, that 
(d) Evagr. l. 1, c. 9  Eutyches was condemned at Constantinople, though his heresy were received at Rome. And those heresies which were broached in your beloved City by John 22. were at that time detested in most places of Christendom. Thus the Catholic Church was always visible, when Rome itself failed.  
30. I have done with your argument; and now, without offence I shall return it upon you thus.  
I desire to be showed the body of Christ distinct from his hand, or arm. And if this cannot be showed, it will necessarily follow, that those are the body of Christ; or else Christ hath not always had a body.  
This will seem a strange Argument; and yet, what answer you make, the same shall I requite you with. For 
(e) Eph. 1.23. Colos. 1.24.  the Church is the mystical body of Christ. And 
(f) 1 Cor. 12.14.  his body is not one member, but many. The whole body is not the hand; nor the hand the whole body. For 
(g) Ib. v. 12.  as the body is one, and hath many members; and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body; so also is Christ. And so is his Church, 
(h) Ib. v. 13.  into which we are baptised. So then (as St. chrysostom hath it) 
(i) Chrysost. in loc.  Et multa unum sunt, & unum est multa; these many are one, and this one is many; many members, and yet but one body. As they are a body, all these are but one: but as every one of these are a several part, so they are different. No part alone by and of itself can make a body: the best member wants the concurrence of the rest, even skin and hair, to make a complete body. In this the meanest member bears a part, and the best does no more.  
31. The truth is, I may say to you, as St. Paul heretofore to the Corinthians; 
(k) 1. Cor. 12.27.  Vos estis corpus Christi, & membra ex parte, ye are the body of Christ, and members in part, or members of a member, of the Western Church, and ye are no more. All Churches throughout the world, and yours among the rest, are members of the body of Christ; of that body, which is the Church Catholic. And every one of these must do their parts, that belong unto them, that the body continue one, and that there be no schism therein. For though St. Paul be pleased to call the Corinthians the body of Christ, yet as St. chrysostom observes, 
(l) Chrysost. in 1 Cor. 12.  that Church alone was not the whole body; but the Catholic dispersed through the whole world. He saith therefore IN PART, or FOR PART; that so they may understand themselves to be but pars quaedam, some part of that body, which is made up of all Churches. That so we may endeavour not only to have peace among ourselves, but with the whole Church throughout the earth; since we are all members of this Catholic body. God give all of us grace to learn this lesson; and to remember, that the foot is no less a part, than the eye: and that neither of these alone, nor yet both in conjunction can make a body, but as they are conjoined with the rest of the members. Content yourselves then, ye are but membra de membro, members in part, members of a member: ye must be knit to the other parts, before ye can grow up into a body. Indeed had there been no other but yourselves, the Church had been utterly extinct, when time was, not so much as a sound member left.  
32. Now since you press so for the last 1100 years, give me leave to tell you, in what state Rome was, for a great part of that time, you call for. 
(m) Stapleton. Relect. count 1. q. 5. A. 3.  From 800 years after Christ she hath been foully stained with all sins almost imaginable. Schism was raised there, and maintained with bribery, and blood enough, if Platina and Onuphrius speak right. 
(n) Stella in Luc. 22.31.  Stella and 
(o) Almain. l. 3. D. 24. q. 1.  Almain charge her with heresy. And Lira professeth, that 
(p) Lira in Mat. 16.  many of the chief therein, and the Popes themselves did apostatise from the faith. Five he names, 1. Zepherinus a Montanist: 2. Marcellinus an Idolater: 3. Liberius an Arian: 4. Vigilius an Eutychian: and 5. Honorius a Monothelite. 
(q) Genebrard. Chron. l. 4. An. 991.  Genebrard tells us, of about 50 Popes, that did so far degenerate from the virtue of their predecessors, that they were Apostatici potius, quam Apostolici, Apostatical rather then Apostolical. And yet this must be the only Catholic Church.  
33. 
(r) Aven. Annal. Boior. l. 5. p. 447.  Aventinus complains, that for 450 years, the Popes of Rome did so trample all things under their feet, ut inferos superos in servitutem redegerint, that they brought heaven and hell to their beck, and made these do, what they pleased. And 
(s) P. de Aliaco de Reform. Rom. Eccles. tit. de Reform. Reli.  Petrus de Aliaco a Cardinal, that was present in the Council of Constance, professeth, that in those days the Church was come to that pass, ut non sit digna regi nisi a reprobis, that it was worthy to be governed by none but reprobates. This he speaks of that Church, you magnify so much. 
(t) Baro. Annal. Ann. Christi 908. n. 5. & Ann. 93 1. n. 1.  Baronius confesseth, that there was a time, when Marozia and her daughter (a couple of lewd strumpets) disposed of the Popedom for many years; so that none possessed that Chair but Boys, Fools, and Knaves: complaining that in those days, Christ lay asleep in the head of the ship. Where was then the holy Catholic Church? How think you? was it then at Rome?  
34. 
(u) Alphons. de Cast. c. Haeres. l. 1. c. 4.  Alphonsus de Castro testifies, that divers Roman Popes were so illiterate, that they were wholly unacquainted with Grammar. 
(x) Alvar. Pel. de Planct. Eccle. l. 2. Ar. 5.  Alvarez Pelagius gives us this account for his time; Hodie in Ecclesia deficit spiritus prophetiae, that the spirit of Prophecy did so fail, the Church, that those words were fulfilled, 3. Reg. 22. I will go forth, and I will be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his Prophets. And yet Baronius professeth, that 
(y) Plane apparet ex arbitrio dependisse Romani Pontificis, fidei decreta sancire, & sancita mutare. Baron. An. 373 n. 2●.  it is plainly evident, that it depended upon the Pope's pleasure, to enact Decrees of faith, and to reverse those, that were enacted. Was not here a Church well governed there while? 
(z) Quomodo possunt integritati & continentiae praeesse, si ex ipsis incipiant corruptelae, & vitiorum magisteria proced re? Cypr. l. 1. ep. 11.  Was it possible, such Bishops should reform abroad, what they practised, and countenanced at home? In those drowsy, illiterate, and Apostatical times, John 22. broached his damnable heresies. And in those times, in all probability, were those strange doctrines hatched, and many of those abuses induced, we now protest against. Somewhere than the Church was visible, when invisible at Rome. And occasion is given us to presume, that in this very Island it was visible; since Erasmus professeth, that in all his travels he found learned Bishops in England only. And for many years, we know, the Greek Church had small correspondence or communion with the Latins; and yet a visible Church for all this. Neither can I doubt, but in other countries, even in Italy, there were some learned Bishops, that knew the Canons of the Church, and full well understood, that 
(a) Conc. Ephes. can. 1.  heresy discharges not only the Bishop from his Metropolitan, but 
(b) Ib. can. 3.  the Clerk from subjection to his Bishop. The Church of Rome then must pardon us, if we withdrew ourselves from her Bishops, when they fell into Apostasy, or heresy. And all good men will acquit us, for reforming abuses at home, according to our duty. We have good warrant for what we do, even the authority of the whole Church representative.  
Sir, I have done. If you be offended, that I have stirred too much in these loathsome puddles, consider, I beseech you, that you set me upon this unpleasing ●ask. What I have done, was at your desire, and according to your directions Christ knows, I have no private, or by end, in these my writings; it is your satisfaction and salvation, which I desire, and endeavour. God of his mercy give a blessing to these my labours, and to you an humble and discerning spirit, that you may see the truth, and embrace it: So prays  
Your unworthy friend Edward Boughen.  Ab adversario mota quaestio, discendi existit occasio. Aug. de Civit. Dei. l. 16. c. 2. 
Where was our Church before Luther? It was just there, where yours is now. One and the same Church still, no doubt of that. One in substance; but not one in condition of state and purity: your part of the same Church remaining in corruption; and our part of the same Church under reformation. The same Naaman, and he a Syrian still, but leprous with you, and cleansed with us. The same man still. Archbishop Lawd. Ep. Ded. §. Now one thing.   

For Edward Boughen, Doctor in Divinity:  
These are.  
SIR,  
I. YOur papers I received some months since, and for your great pains therein I humbly thank you. The effect of them is this, (viz.) a Resolution that there can be no Church showed through the whole world for many hundred years before Luther, but the Church of Rome, and those in her communion; for if there could, I presume your learning is such you would have known it, and your charity such that being desired you would have showed it me.  
II. My original doubt was, that sigh the Catholic Church must be always visible, and that I could not by my best enquiry find, that a succession of men professing the doctrine of the Church of England, had been always visible, that that Church was not the, nor any part of the Catholic Church. To this doubt at our conference you endeavoured my satisfaction, by attempting to prove, that though the Church of England had not been always visible, (at least not seen) yet seeing she is but a member of the Catholic Church, of which the Church of Rome is another; it was sufficient that the Catholic Church had been always visible in the Church of Rome, and other particular Churches, though not in the Church of England.  
III. That discourse than did give me no satisfaction, because although you said that the Church of Rome was a member of the Catholic; yet the 19 th'. Article of your Church says, That the visible Church of Christ is a Congregation of faithful men, in the which the pure Word of God is preached, and the Sacraments be duly administered, according to Christ's ordinance in all those things that of necessity are requisite to the same: And in divers other your Articles your Church condemns the Church of Rome for not preaching the pure Word of God: As in the 22 th'. concerning Purgatory, Pardons, Worshipping of Images and Relics, and Invocation of Saints: And in the 24 th'. concerning the Public prayers in the Church, and the ministering of the Sacraments in a tongue not understood of the people: In the 31 th'. concerning the Sacrifice of the Mass for quick and dead, which that your Article calls blasphemous fables, and dangerous deceits.  
IU. And for not duly administering the Sacraments: In the 30 th'. Article you say, The Cup of the Lord is not to be denied to Lay-people: For both the parts of the Lords Sacraments by Christ's ordinance and commandment, aught to be administered to all Christian men alike. So then by the Articles of your Church, the Church of Rome doth neither preach the pure Word of God, nor duly administer the Sacraments, and that in those things that are of necessity requisite for the same, as appears by your separation; for your beloved 
* fo. 195. or 7. against F●sher.  Archbish. Lawd says it is not lawful to make a separation for points not necessary: And if you say you did not make the separation, but the Church of Rome, than Luther, tindal, etc. did not go out of the Church of Rome, but the Church of Rome out of them.  
V Therefore I had reason still, as in my Letter, to demand a Church distinct from the Church of Rome, and those in her communion, of which no man that reads your answer, can thereby I think receive satisfaction: For the whole drift and scope of your papers is either to prove; First, that the Church of Rome and those in her communion, is not the Catholic Church; or else Secondly, that the Church of Rome, and those in communion with her, and the Church of England are but one, that is, several members of one Church.  
VI For the first, that the Church of Rome and those in communion with her, was not the Catholic Church for that time I required; you show no proof that I do find, but that some of the Popes have been either Heretics, or Schismatics; which if admitted (though it is not) to be so in some of them for that time, yet it doth not make that whole Church to be Heretical or Schismatical: For I believe you will yield that the King of England, or Archbishop of Canterbury, may be an Heretic or Schismatic, and yet the Church of England be still part of the Catholic Church. But if it were granted that the Popes of Rome being Schismatics or Heretics, should annihilate that Church, yet that could give me no satisfaction, who required not, where is not the Catholic Church, but where it is, that I might communicate with it.  
2. For the second, that the Church of Rome and those in her communion, and the Church of England, are but several members of the One Catholic Church: That I conceive cannot be: 1. For the reasons inferred from the Articles of your Church, as above. 2. For that the Articles of Faith of both Churches are directly contradictory, as appears by many your negative Articles: And Mr. Hooker says li. 3. fo. 84. That the Children of the visible Church are signed with this mark, One Lord, ONE FAITH, One Baptism. 3. Yourself Sect. 24. charges the Church of Rome with errors in matters of Faith, no less then in 4. points, (viz.) Transubstantiation, Communion in one kind, Invocation of Saints, and Adoration of Images, and how you do distinguish between errors in matter of Faith, pertinaciously (as you will say) held, and Heresy, I would willingly hear, and if guilty of Heresy, then by your say out of St. August. Haeresis enim Sponsa Christi non est: And Haeretici non pertinent ad Ecclesiam Catholicam; she is no part of the Catholic Church. And in Sect. 11. you charge the Church of Rome, That she hath most sacrilegiously rob the Laity of Christ's blood. 4. Christ's mystical body is but one, and although that body is made up of many members, yet all those members must communicate one with another, for if a member be separated but by schism, it is like an arm cut off from the body, or a branch from the vine (your own similes) which makes that arm or branch no part of the body or vine.  
VIII. And that the Church of Rome and England are separated by schism, I think none will deny, for they do abhor mutual communion in divine worship, Sacraments, Prayers, and holy Rites; and no Protestant will frequent Catholic service, especially in the holy Sacrifice of Mass. Moreover, Catholics excommunicate Protestants every year, and Protestants did frequently Catholics in England. And by public Statutes and Laws of the Land, any one who should reconcile one of the Church of England, to the Church of Rome, is guilty of death; but a Priest that shall celebrate Mass is made guilty of high Treason: How therefore can One Church, Christ's mystical body, grow up together of such different members? And yourself say Sect. 19 that since the Reformation you have not communicated with the Church of Rome.  
IX. The Church of Rome and England being thus separated, both in Faith and Communion, and so not one: And the Church of Rome and those in communion with her, by your saying not being the Catholic Church: my desire (to be showed the Catholic Church, or the Church of England distinct from the Church of Rome and those in her communion, for the last 1100 years, or for so long as you please to say the Church of Rome hath so grievously erred, that you dare not communicate with her) is not, nor by your Papers can be satisfied.  
Thus beseeching Almighty God to look favourably into the souls deceived by devilish deceits, that all heretical impieties removed, the hearts of them that err may relent, and return to the unity of his truth: I humbly take leave and rest.  
Your most unworthy Servant T. B.   

For Mr. T. B. An Answer to his second Letter.  
SIR,  
I. I Have heretofore manifested, that 
(a) § 2.  there were Churches in Judea, in Galilee and Samaria, before ever there was a Church at Rome. 2 . That 
(b) Ib.  there was a Catholic Church, when the Apostles Creed was compiled and believed; and yet no Church at Rome. 3 . After Rome became a Church, she ceased to be Orthodox; in so much, that 
(c) § 23.  in the time of St. Hilary of Poicteurs there was at Rome no Church, no Communion of Saints. She, and those in communion with her, were Heretical, and complied with Arius. And yet in France, at that very instant, there was a Catholic, an Orthodox Church; as also 
(d) § 29.  at Alexandria, and in Sardinia. 4 . 
(e) § 18.27.29.  No Church at Rome under Zepherinus a Montanist, Marcellinus an Idolater, Liberius an Arian, Vigilius an Eutychian, and under John the 22. that Monster of Heretics. And yet in those days the Church was in Asia, Alexandria, Sardinia, Cappadocia, France, and other places. And all these, I hope, before Luther, and after Rome had been Catholic. And yet the effect of all this is, a resolution in you, that 
(f) n. 1.  there can be no Church showed through the whole world for many hundred years before Luther, but the Church of Rome, and those in her communion. For some hundred years then, it seems, there may; and if for some, perchance for more.  
2. All this is to imply, as if no Church without Rome; as if all these were no Churches, because they did not communicate with Rome in her damnable heresies. If no Church but Rome, and those in her communion, than was there no Church at all for many hundred years, since Rome was no Church, while Arian, or Eutychian, or worse. From whence then borrow you these grounds, and take up this resolution? Because Rome sometimes embraced Montanism, sometimes Eutychianism, Arianism, Apostatism, therefore no Church but Rome. Or as if Asia, Alexandria, Sardinia, France, and Cappadocia were no part of the world. For in those places there were Catholic Churches, when none at Rome. Or else that Church, because the Roman, was Catholic, though never so heretical. Thus the Faith shall be tried by Rome, and not Rome by the Faith. Communicate with Rome, and all's well.  
3. Next therefore you scoffingly add; 
(g) Ib.  for if there could, I presume, your learning is such, you would have known it; and your charity such, that being desired, you would have showed it me. Sir, my learning is such, I bless God, that I do know it; and my charity such, that, upon your desire, I have showed it you. But your eyes and resolution are such, that you will not see it. Thus with 
(h) Senec. ep. 51.  Harpaste, Seneca's wives fool, the house is dark, when you are blind, not casually, but wilfully.  
4. In your former Letter your desire was, that I would show you the Catholic Church distinct from the Church of Rome, and those in communion with her. This I did in my former Answer, plainly and fully, § 1.22, 23, 29. That in this you might receive satisfaction, I grant, that The Catholic Church was always visible from the Apostles times to this present day; even then, when there was no Church at Rome, § 5. etc. Next, I have therein proved, that 
(i) § 10.  The Church of Rome, and those in communion with her, are not, cannot be, the Catholic Church. A member indeed of the Catholic Church sometimes she was, and sometimes she was not. When Orthodox, she was a member of the Catholic; but while Heretical or Schismatical, she was no Church, much less the one Catholic. That the Roman Church hath been dangerously Heretical, is manifested § 16, 17, 18, 23. That she hath been miserably Schismatical, is acknowledged by your own men, § 3. Thus that Church hath grievously erred, and in more than one fundamental. And yet the Catholic hath been always visible, though ofttimes invisible at Rome; unless errors and heresies prove Catholic, because professed at Rome.  
5. All this your Tutors reply not to, nor hardly take notice of; but have directed you to fall from your former desires upon new questions; tempting me, as the Pharisees did our Saviour; but resolving to receive no answer. Thus you put me to more trouble, not with a mind to be satisfied, but merely to cavil; and to slide over those arguments and testimonies, which they are not able to answer, or disprove. Is not this to speak nothing, lest you should seem to be silent? Are these things, which I have delivered, true or false? If true; 
(k) A qu●cunque verum dicitur, illo inspirante dicitur, qui & ipse veritas est. Aug. ep. 28.  let truth prevail. If false, disprove them; if impertinent, manifest it. Otherwise, if you thus seek evasions, you will enforce me to acquaint the world with your shifts and shufflings, by publishing these papers; that every eye may discern, what is the weakness of your cause, and what your obstinacy.  
6. Your intent being to decline, what you cannot answer, you divert me from the former business thus; 
(l) n. 2.  My original doubt was (say you) that sigh the Catholic Church must be always visible, and that I could not by my best inquiry find, that a succession of men, professing the doctrine of the Church of England, had been always visible, that that Church was not the, nor any part of the Catholic Church. What have I to do with your original doubt? Your Letter, and the expression of your desire I looked upon; I endeavoured to satisfy your request; and, I presume, a satisfactory answer was given to your demands, that so I might win a soul, not so much to our Church, as to the Communion of Saints; and to lead you out of error into the way of truth. That the Catholic Church is, hath been, and must be always visible, is agreed on both hands. But by your best enquiry you could not find, that a succession of men, professing the doctrine of the Church of England, had been always visible. No more could the Pharisees see the Prophecies, that concerned our Saviour, though never so visible. Alas, poor Gentleman, little Learning are you troubled with; you are not able to search the Scriptures, Counsels, and Fathers, as you ought: and your enquiry hath been of such, as are either ignorant, or wilfully blind, and bend to misguide you.  
7. The doctrine of the Church of England is clear in our Book of Common-prayer: that is the rule for the Laity; and such as the true Catholic Church hath always embraced, and continued. All therein is positive. The Book of Articles is a rule for the Clergy, to preserve them from error; and much therein is negative. He, that means sincerely to instruct you so in the right way, that you may be a guide to others, must give you directions to avoid the by-paths. The positive doctrine of this Church was ever professed, and is visible in all Catholic writers. But you insist upon no particulars, and guile lurks under generals. But, I beseech you, before you turned over to the Church of Rome, why did not you make the like enquiry, to find out a succession of men professing the doctrine of the Church of Rome, in those particulars, wherein we descent from them of that Communion? If thus you had done, you might easily have discerned, that that Church is not the, nor any part of the Catholic Church, if we go by your line. For the most skilful of your party are not able to show such a succession of men, in the first 700 years of Christianity.  
8. But you are pleased to add; that 
(m) n. 2.  to this doubt, at our conference, I endeavoured your satisfaction, by attempting to prove, that though the Church of England had not been always visible, (at least not seen) yet seeing she is but a member of the Catholic Church, of which the Church of Rome is another, it was sufficient that the Catholic Church had been always visible in the Church of Rome, and other particular Churches, though not in the Church of England. Good God, what foreheads have men! Is this, could this possibly be my answer? Who always justify, that this Church hath been visible since the first or second Conversion; though not always under Reformation. And for Rome, I have demonstrated, that the Catholic Church was not always visible in that City, or Diocese, § 22, 23, 29. As also what kind of Church ye had for 450 years together, § 33. when hardly the form either of Religion or a Church was there to be seen. Yet visible it was here, when invisible at Rome. For you can never show, that this Church was overrun with Montanism, Arianism, or Eutychianism. Yea, this was a learned and pious Church, when yours was miserably possessed with ignorance and impiety. Look upon your own Mr. Pits his Catalogue of our Writers, and this will manifestly appear.  
9 However than 
(n) n. 3.  that discourse, which I sent unto you, gave you no satisfaction, yet it abundantly clears the questions proposed in your Letter. Neither can I possibly expect to withdraw you from that faction, who are resolved to receive no satisfaction, unless we grant, that the Church of Rome, and those in communion with her, are the only Catholic Church. And yet I never read in Fathers or Counsels, that to communicate with Rome is either a sure, or any token of a good Catholic. St. Austin assures us, that 
(o) Aug. quaest. Evangel. secund. Mat. c. 12.  they are good Catholics, qui & fidem integram sequuntur, & bonos mores; who hold the undefiled Faith full and whole, and observe good manners: and those, that endeavour not to do this, are much to blame. While then thus we do, we are good Catholics. But that Faith, which we have received from the Apostles, and Counsels, and Fathers, we keep whole, and undefiled, without alteration, addition, or diminution. While they are right, we are so. If they be out of the way, we are content to err with them. Catholics we are, true, right Catholics, by Lirinensis rule. 
(p) Vincent. Lirin. c. 25.  God's truth, the Church, the body of Christ we love. We prefer no man's, no Churches authority, no affection, no wit, no eloquence, no philosophy, nothing whatsoever before Divine Religion, and the Catholic Faith. These things we set light by, and being fixed, firm in faith, we have determined, by God's grace, to hold and believe that, and that only, which we know to have been held by the Catholic Church universally of old, from the beginning of Christianity. And whatever new, or unheard of doctrine we shall perceive to have been induced by any particular man, or Church, besides, or against all the holy men of God, this we understand to proceed from Temptation, not from Religion.  
10. Thus we are Catholics, and our Church will prove so too. We believe the holy Catholic Church, we profess it is but one. 
(q) Cypr. l. 4. ep. 2.  A Christo una, (as St. Cyprian speaks) but one of Christ's making, though divided through all Nations into many members; per totum mundum in multa membra divisa. 
(r) Item Episcopatus unus Episcoporum multorum concordi numerositare diffusus. Ib.  So the Episcopacy is but one, under that great 
(s) 1. S. Pet. 2.25.  Bishop of our souls, but it is diffused by the numerous consent of many Bishops. One Church, and one Bishopric; and yet many Bishoprics, which are called Churches: and 
(t) Concil. Nic. Diatyp. 2.  every Bishop is head, as it were, of that Communion or Church, which is committed to his charge. 
(u) Tertull. de Praescrip. c. 20.  These many Churches, small or great, una est illa ab Apostolis prima, ex qua omnes; are that one first Apostolical Church, of whom come all. 
(x) Sic omnes primae, & omnes Apostolicae, dum omnes unam probant unitatem. Ib.  Thus they are all prime, all Apostolic, while they all approve one unity. 
(y) Ib. c. 32.  This unity is by Tertullian placed in Faith, and Episcopal succession. Hitherto than we are right; for those Churches, that have this faith, and this successive government, 
(z) Ib.  non minus Apostolicae deputantur pro consanguinitate doctrinae, are equally Apostolic with those very Churches, which were planted by the Apostles. And in the Council of Ephesus, the appeal is not to the Bishop or Church of Rome, for trial of doctrine, but to the 
(a) Vincent. Lirin. c. 42.  consent of the most famous Catholic Bishops, that were before them. If Rome be judge, the work is short; we shall quickly have one Religion settled, good or bad. But the old rule is this, 
(b) Ib. c. 3.  Quod ubique, quod semper, quod ab omnibus, that which hath been believed in all places, at all times, by all the Fathers, that is truly Catholic; and nothing else, for aught I know.  
11. This fully manifests, that this Nationall Church is as much Catholic and Apostolic, as can be desired. And yet I cannot expect, that this should work upon you, who are obstinately prepossessed against all satisfaction. I remember, A.C. was not ashamed to publish in print, 
(c) A.C. p. 54.  that the Lady, whom the two Bishops conferred with, did not ask the Question, as if she meant to be satisfied with hearing, what either of them said. And was it not, is it not so with you? Simon Magus will be the old man, say St. Peter, what he may. And 
(d) 2. Tim. 3.8.  as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so will your corrupt faction resist the truth, come what can.  
12. But you have reason for what you say; and this it is; 
(e) n. 3.  Because, although I said, the Church of Rome was a member of the Catholic; yet the 19 Article of our Church says, that the visible Church of Christ is a Congregation of faithful men, in the which the pure Word of God is preached, and the Sacraments be duly administered, according to Christ's Ordinance, in all those things, that of necessity are requisite to the same. What is here to displease you? Is not all true? Refute it, if you can: deny it, if you have the face. 
(f) Ib.  But in divers other Articles our Church condemns the Church of Rome, for not preaching the pure Word of God. And that's it, that offends you. Sir, we undertake not to judge your Church, but her doctrine; we condemn her errors, and yet acknowledge her to be a Church. 
(g) Apoc. 2.13.  God blames the Church of Pergamos, for enduring the seat of Satan within her Diocese; as also 
(h) Ib. v. 15.  for holding that odious doctrine of the Nicolaitans: and yet grants her to be a Church, such a one, as it was. St. Paul calls the Corinthians 
(i) 1 Cor. 1.2.  a Church, but 
(k) Ib. v. 11. etc. 3.  he blames their schisms, 
(l) Ib. c. 5.  their carnality, 
(m) Ib. c. 11.  their disorders in the Church, 
(n) Ib v. 20, etc.  their profaning of the Lords Supper, and 
(o) Ib. c. 15.12.  charges them with the heresy of the Sadduces. Your errors were crept in among us; and shall not we dare to call them errors, and to teach our Countrymen to avoid them? Four of these that B. Martyr hath charged you with, and proves them to be blasphemous fables, and dangerous deceits; as I acquainted you, § 24. You read, and turn over, and take no notice of what you read. This 'tis to be led by other men's eyes, and to see no further, than your new Masters will give you leave.  
13. Justly we tax you, Art. 30. for maiming the blessed Eucharist, and for denying the Cup, or Blood of the Lord to Lay men. As if our Saviour had not shed it for them, as much as for us; and had not given it to them, as well as to us. What is the meaning then of these words, 
(p) St. Mat. 26.27.  Drink ye all of this? or did not the Church of Christ understand, what they did, when they gave it to Priest and People? And how can I communicate with them, that will not suffer me to communicate with Christ, according to his own Ordinance? who deny me that, which Christ hath commanded me to take? In denying me the Cup, ye admit me by halves; in truth ye forbidden me the Lords Table, I withdraw not myself. I have proved § 11. that in the judgement of the Catholic Church, this Sacrament is to be administered to the Laity in both kinds. I shall add therefore with you, that 
(q) n. 4.  the Church of Rome doth neither preach the pure Word of God, nor duly administer the Sacraments, in those things, that are of necessity requisite for the same. This appears by our departure, or, as you name it, our separation, not from you, but from your errors. As you are a Church, we communicate with you; wherein ye are erroneous, we depart from you. And in this we rely not upon our own judgement, but 
(r) In ipsa vetustate, omnium, vel certè penè omnium Sacerdotum pariser & Magistrorum definitiones sententiasque sectamur. Vincent. Lirin. c. 3.  submit to the general resolution of the ancient Fathers. The Jews at Gods command 
(s) Leu. 13.46.  separated the leprous from the sound, the clean from the unclean: and so do we. Though 
(t) Num. 12.14  Miriam were Moses own Sister, yet did he withdraw himself and the whole Congregation from her, while leprous. But when she was healed of her foul disease, both he and the rest communicated with her. Cast off your leprous errors, and we are for your communion.  
14. And whereas you add, that 
(u) n. 4.  Archbishop Lawd says, it is not lawful to make a separation for points not necessary; I freely subscribe to what he says. But withal he tells us, that 
(x) Archbishop Lawd. §. 23.  In the Church of Rome there are errors in Doctrine; and some of them such, as most manifestly endanger salvation: And I hope it is lawful to separate from these; especially since your most able friends grant; that 
(y) A. C. p. 56.  Error in the doctrine of Faith is a just cause of Separation. But the same Bishop hath proved, that 
(z) Archbishop Lawd. §. 33. n. 13.  the Church of Rome hath erred in the doctrine of Faith, and dangerously too, in several particulars. In those his words then, which you mention, he touches not us, but you; not us, who are separated passively; but your Church, which hath actually, actively separated and excommunicated us, for points not necessary, not to be endured in an Orthodox Church. Thus the cause, the fault, rests upon you, not upon us.  
15. Whereas then you tell us, 
(a) n. 4.  If we say, we did not make the Separation, but the Church of Rome, than Luther, tindal, etc. did not go out of the Church of Rome, but the Church of Rome out of them. What consequence is this? or what is this to us? What tindal did, I know not, neither does it concern us. What Luther did, I know, if the History of the Council of Trent misguide me not. He humbly acquainted you with your errors and enormities, and desired redress; and for this, ye most unchristianly thrust him forth of your communion; resolving rather to persevere in error, then to amend, what was, and is amiss. For my part, I am resolved not to justify any man, or act against the consent and rules of the ancient Church. But our Reformation was legal and canonical; as is fully proved, § 20.21. We went not out of the Church to make a Reformation; but this we did in the Church, according to the laudable customs and canons of the ancient Church. And whoever condemns us for this, he condemns himself of gross ignorance, or malice. I may justly therefore say with Moses, 
(b) Num. 16.7.  Ye take too much upon you, ye sons of Levi, Ye men of Rome: ye transgress the 92. & 165. canons of the Catholic Church, by meddling beyond your bounds; as also by imposing upon us and other countries' the Creed of Pius Quartus; which is contrary to the 177. Canon of the same Code.  
16. Yet, as if no satisfaction were given to your demands, you proceed thus; 
(c) n. 5.  Therefore I had reason still, as in my Letter, to demand a Church distinct from the Church of Rome, and those in her communion; of which no man, that reads your answer, can thereby, I think, receive satisfaction. So you think, and some that have read it, think otherwise; and conceive that I have given full satisfaction to your demands; though you be resolved to turn your ears another way. For I have demonstrated, that when the Church of Rome, and those in her communion, were no members of the Catholic Church, there were at that very time several Orthodox Churches in France, § 23. in Asia, Sardinia, Egypt, and at Constantinople. All which at the same instant abhorred those heresies, which Rome professed; and would have no communion with her, or her heresies.  
17. But, say you, 
(d) Ib.  the whole drift and scope of my Papers is, either to prove, First, that the Church of Rome, and those in her communion, is not the Catholic Church. Secondly, that the Church of Rome, and those in communion with her, and the Church of England are but one, that is, several members of one Church. To these in their order. For the first you speak truth; The Church of Rome, and those in her communion, is not the Catholic Church: this is both said and proved, § 12, etc. There my mind may be fully seen; and till that be disproved, I shall add only thus much; If the Church of Rome be not the Catholic, as I affirm, and yet the Catholic always visible; then was there a Church distinct from the Roman Church, when Rome itself was not Catholic. But there was a time, when Rome was not Catholic, not Orthodox; as is proved in my former Papers, § 18, 23, 27, 29.  
18. Your reply to that, which I wrote before, is this; 
(e) n. 6.  For the first, That the Church of Rome, and those in communion with her, was not the Catholic Church for that time I required, you show no proof, that I do find, but that some of the Popes have been Heretics or Schismatics. Proof then is showed for this; and this I take to be proof enough. For if the head be amiss, the whole body is out of tune. But the Bishop is 
(f) Concil. Nic. Diatyp. 2.  〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, the head, or as the head of that Church whereto he is preferred, over which he is placed. For 
(g) Episcopus est in Ecclesia, & Ecclesia in Episcopo. Cypr. ep. 69. n. 31.  as the Bishop is in the Church, so is the Church in the Bishop; and such as the Bishop is, such is the Church presumed to be, till it renounce the Bishop's errors: for 
(h)  by the Bishop every Church communicates with other Churches. Hence it is, that at the ordination of a Bishop, the Metropolitan, or other Bishops of that Province acquaint the Primate therewith, and he the other Bishops within his Diocese, that so they might know, with and by whom they ought to communicate with other Churches. This is to be seen in St. Cyprian 
(i) Cyp. l. 4. ep. 8.  by the ordination of Cornelius; as also 
(k) Euseb. hist. l. 7. c. 24.  by the deposition of Paulus Samosatenus, by the ordination of Domnus into the See of Antioch. 
(l) Ib.  This intelligence was given, that so they might know to whom to write, and from whom to receive Letters of communion.  
19 That some, yea divers, of your Popes were Heretics or Schismatics, is throughly manifested out of your own men, § 18, 32, etc. And while Heretics, 
(m) Cod. Eccl. Vnivers. Can. 171.  both themselves, and all that side with them are secluded from Ecclesiastical communion every way. 
(n) Ib.  All their Episcopal acts are made void; and 
(o) Ib. Can. 172.  those Bishops which adhere to them, are to be degraded from their Episcopacy. While therefore your Bishops were Heretical, your Church was in an ill case: it could not possibly be Catholic, when all Episcopal acts were void. Is not this a main evidence against you? 
(p) § 23.  Some proof there is also from St. Hilary; who professeth, that (in these Western parts) there was in his time no Christian communion but in France. This touches not only the Bishop, but the whole Church of Rome, and all that adhered to him, or that.  
20. For all this, as if it were doubtful whether your Bishops were such, you adjoin, 
(q) n. 6.  Which if admitted (though it is not) to be so in some of them for that time, yet it doth not make that whole Church to be Heretical or Schismatical. Sir, though not admitted by you and your Masters, yet it is acknowledged by your own learned men, Lyra, Stella, Almain, Platina, Onuphrius, and others, that some of your Bishops have been Heretical, and some Schismatical. And that not for a small time, as you seem to imply; but for many generations, 
(r) Aventin. Annal. Boior. l. 5. p. 447.  for 450 years together, they were an infamy to their Order, as Aventinus testifies. God forbidden, that I should pass sentence upon every particular person; but as a City is rebellious, when the Governor and the party prevalent withstand and affront the Prince, though many loyal subjects be in that City: so when the Bishop, and the prevailing part with him fall into heresy, that Church is adjudged Heretical; and the denomination is taken from the more eminent and potent faction. Thus 
(s) Socrat. l. 3. c. 29. Sozom. l. 4. c. 10.  Rome itself was accounted Arian, while Bishop Felix communicated with Arians, and ordained divers of that persuasion Ministers of that Church. And yet, blessed be God, 
(t) Theodoret. l. 2. c. 17.  Rome at that time had many good people, that would not communicate with that Bishop.  
21. But, in the words following, it is little less than confessed, that your Bishops were such as I have related. 
(u) n. 6.  For (as your next words speak) I believe, you will yield, that the King of England, or Archbishop of Canterbury, may be an Heretic, or Schismatic, and yet the Church of England be still part of the Church Catholic. Sir, we must distinguish between a professed, and close Heretic. Those, that communicate with a professed Heretic, are as he is. Hence is it, that 
(x) Theodoret. l. 2. c. 17. Sozom. l. 4. c. 10.  Felix Bishop of Rome, though inwardly Orthodox, was adjudged Heretical for holding communion with the Arians. But with a close, a concealed Heretic, we may communicate, and be guiltless. Thus 
(y) Act. 8.13.  St. Philip communicated a while with Simon Magus, 
(z) 1 Tim. 1.20.  St. Paul with Hymeneus; and the rest of the Apostles with Nicolaus, and were blameless. But this is to persuade us, that your Church was Catholic, when your Bishop an Heretic. Thus the Pope's infallibility is shrunk into heresy; it is fallen out of the chair into the body of the Church, and the head shall receive health from the members, not the members from the head. Whereas anciently the Saints of God judged of the Church by the Bishop, not of the Bishop by the Church. Yea, 
(a) Concil. Nic. Can. 5.  the communion of the Church is estimated by communicating with the Bishop: and 
(b) Cod. Eccles. Univers. can. 169  if any, whether Priest, or other, shall sever themselves from their Canonical Bishop, and shall call a Congregation against him, or without his directions, they are censured to be Heretics. The reason is, because 
(c) Concil. Nic. Diatyp. 2.  the Bishop is as it were the head, the life of his Church; and 
(d) Concil. Nic. Can. 4.  ought not to be ordained without the approbation of all the Bishops of that Province. And, I know, Liberius was ordained with this circumspection. Thus the Bishop elected is presumed to be of the same Religion with the rest of the Province; and the Province with the Metropolitan. Provided therefore it is, that 
(e) Cod. Eccles. Univers. Can. 5.99.104.  the Synod of that Province censure him, if he fail of their expectation, and departed from the Orthodox faith. And 
(f) Ib. Can. 171, 172.  if they do not, they are alike guilty, and all that adhere to him or them.  
22. And for the parties instanced, the King of England, and Archbishop of Canterbury; I believe, that either, or both of them may be Heretics, and this Church not so; since it is not their being, but our complying that makes us heretical. But if all our Bishops be of the same Religion with them, this Church is in an ill case. You, or I, may save our own souls by not communicating with them, by dissenting from them, and by protesting against their unsound doctrine. But the Church is not to be judged of by you, or me; but by those that sit in Moses chair, and are 
(g) 2. Cor. 2.16.  either the savour of life unto life, or the savour of death unto death. For 
(h) St. Mat. 5.13.  if the salt lose its savour, wherewith shall it be salted? how mended? how recovered? Surely 
(i) Ib.  it is to be cast forth of the Church, out of the dignity it is in; and trampled upon as good for nothing. This was spoken to the Apostles, and with them to their successors. But when the King and Priest join together, it hath a strange influence upon the People for good or bad. 
(k) 4. Reg. 16.10, etc.  When King Ahaz and Vrijah the Priest professed Idolatry with open face, though many good men were resident among them, yet was that City and People accounted Heretical. The power of the sword draws some to sympathise, and too many to temporize. This is to be seen under the reign of 
(l) Ista edictorum Imperatoris vi, quae in parts Occidentis miserat, confecta sunt. Socrat. l. 2. c. 29.  Constantius, Julian, Valens, and others; where we see Religion much depend upon the Imperial breath. But if Prince and Bishop concur in Religion, they hardly meet with opposition. Look upon Antioch under Constantius the Emperor, and Leontius the Bishop; upon Constantinople under Valens, and Bishop Eudoxius, and you shall see how suddenly they were overrun with heresy. Now, if it should fall out so unhappily with any or all the Cities of this Kingdom, the Diocesan or Nationall Church so infected, shall be deemed Heretical. Under K. Edward VI and Queen Mary, the Religion of this Church was judged of by the Governors; and thus shall we deal with Rome.  
23. 
(n) 6.  But if it were granted (say you) that the Popes of Rome being Schismatics or Heretics, should annihilate that Church, yet that could give me no satisfaction, who required not, where is not the Catholic Church, but where it is, that I might communicate with it. And I say, if the Church of Rome be annihilated by the Pope's Heresy, or Apostasy, she shall be no Church, much less the Catholic. What then shall become of those Churches in her communion? surely they are all in an ill, in the same case with her. Grant but this, and the controversy is at an end. You have satisfaction, and I ease. But this will not serve your turn, who now require not, where is not, but where is the Catholic Church. Well, if this will give you satisfaction, I shall tell you this too. The Catholic Church is, where ever the Catholic faith is preserved, and Apostolic government continued. 
(m) Chrysost. in 1. Cor. 12.  It hath been dispersed through the whole world; though not perchance in all parts of the habitable world at the same time. 
(n) 1. Cor. 12.12.  One it is, but many members. As the body is one, and hath many members, so is Christ, 
(o) Chrysost. in loc.  Pro Ecclesia posuit Christum; for the Church he sets down Christ; since the Church is his body, 
(p) 1. Cor. 12.13.  into which we are all baptised. This body hath many members, these members are diffused from sea to sea, over the whole earth. So the Church is in Greece, Italy, Spain, France, England, Polonia, and 
* Unus spiritus inesse omnibus infusus membris, & una anima meritò dicitur, quia una in omnibus fides, & unus ab omnibus colitur Deus, atque ex uno ore hymnos omnes concinunt Deo. Ruffin. hist. l. 9 c. 10.  wherever the Catholic faith and Apostolical government are continued. Thus we acknowledge Rome to be a Church, as St. Paul did Corinth, though an erroneous and superstitious Church. You see now, where you may communicate with the Catholic: but it is left to your discretion, to choose, whether you will communicate with a reformed or a superstitious Church.  
24. Now to the second, where I say, That the Church of Rome, and those in her communion, and the Church of England, are but several members of the one Catholic Church: You reply thus, 
(q) n. 7.  That, I conceive, cannot be; 1. For the reasons inferred from the Articles of your Church, as above. 2. For that the Articles of faith of both Churches are directly contradictory; as appears by many your negative Articles. I look not upon your conceits, but upon your reasons inferred from the Articles of our Church; which are already satisfied, § 12, 13. And whereas you add, that the Articles of faith of both Churches are directly contradictory; I hope, it is not so. If it be, I am certain, one of these is no Church: For than 
(r) 1. Cor. 3.11.  we build not both upon the same foundation; 
(s) Colos. 2.19.  we hold not the head, from which all the body receives nourishment, and is knit, compacted, together by joints and bands. Quid itaque relicto capite membris adhaeres? Why then do you leave the head, to cleave to the members, corrupt, putrified members? He, that builds upon the rock, builds upon sure grounds. 
(t) Aug. de verb. Domini. Ser. 45. c. 7.  Veni ergo mecum, si vis superpetram; & noli mihi velle esse pro petra: if then you  the rock, go along with me; and seek not to be the rock to me. Behold, we build upon the rock; we believe in God the Father, in God the Son, and God the holy Ghost. I hope, ye do so too. We also believe the Unity in Trinity, and Trinity in Unity. And do not ye so too? Hitherto we are both upon the Rock. We believe the 
* We devoutly profess, and in all points follow the faith, which is contained in the three Creeds, that is to say, of the Apostles, of the Council of Nice, and of Athanasius. The Protest. of Bishop Scory, etc. Book of Mart. p. 2119.  three Creeds, and in the same sense the Primitive Church received them; which ye do not; but give some of the Articles a new, another sense. Here than ye are beside the Rock.  
25. Thus we agree, and yet not agree; we agree in the foundation, not in the superstruction; in the letter, not in the exposition. And we are sorry to see you forget yourselves so much, as to infringe so memorable, so necessary a Canon as that of the Council of Ephesus; which decrees, that 
(u) Conc. Ephes. Can. 7.  It is not lawful for any one to bring, to write, or compose any other Creed, besides that which was agreed upon by those holy Fathers assembled in the holy Ghost at Nice. He that offends in this kind against this Canon, is deeply censured; If a Bishop, he is to be deprived of his Cure; if a Clergyman, of his function; but if a Layman, he is to be turned out of the Church's communion. But ye have imposed a new, another Creed of Pius Quartus upon the Church; which whosoever will not subscribe to, he is, at least, no good Catholic with you.  
26. Say not, that these are expositions; they are dangerous additions: and though I cannot say, ye have altered the letter, yet I dare be bold to say, ye have strangely altered the sense, 
(x) Tertul. de Praescrip. c. 38.  auferendo proprietates singulorum verborum, & adjiciendo dispositiones non comparentium rerum, by taking away the proper sense of several words, and by inserting imaginations of such things as have no footing in holy Writ. Whereas we, as we ought, take the rule of Faith in the literal sense; 
(y) Quae nullas habet apad nos quaesliones, nisi quas haereses inferunt, & quae Haereticos faciunt. Ib. c. 14.  and that raiseth no controversies with us, but such as heresies bring in, and such as make Heretics. Yourselves, your own Church ye may charge with contradictions, this Church ye cannot. This is the plea we stand upon, 
(z) Ib. c. 21.  Communicamus cum Ecclestis Apostolicis, quod nulla (vel in nullo) doctrina diversa: hoc est testimonium veritatis: we cannot but communicate with the Primitive, the Apostolic Churches, whose doctrine is in nothing different from theirs. This is such a testimony of the truth, that it is above all exception. And resolved I am, with God's blessing, to be no longer of this communion, than I shall be able to make this good.  
27. And whereas 
(a) n. 7.  Mr. Hooker says, That the Children of the visible Church are signed with this mark, One Lord, ONE FAITH, one Baptism; I presume you make no doubt of this. Neither can I think, but that you are resolved, whoever denies the Lord of life, or renounceth the Catholic faith, or is baptised into any other Baptism, then that one, which our Saviour instituted; or is a second time baptised, he is no child of the visible Church: since that hath taught us to believe one Baptism for the remission of sins. He than that forsakes this faith, forsakes the Church.  
28. Thirdly, you add, that 
(b) Ib.  I myself charge the Church of Rome with errors in matters of faith, no less then in four points, viz. Transubstantiation, Communion in one kind, Invocation of Saints, and Adoration of images. As if I were the first, or the only man, that charged you with these errors: whereas 
(c) Art. 22, 28, 30.  this is done by our whole Church; and the Indictment is made good by that learned Archbishop of B. memory. The Church saith, that these doctrines are 
(d) Art. 22.  fond things, grounded upon no warranty of Scripture, but rather repugnant to the Word of God. The Archbishop hath charged it home, and you know not how to shift it off. It would well therefore become a Christian Church to redress these and your other errors; that we, and others, who protest against these unwarrantable doctrines, may communicate freely with you.  
29. 
(e) n. 7.  You would therefore willingly hear, how I distinguish between errors in matters of faith, pertinaciously held, and heresy. What's this to the point in hand? This is but only to tempt me into another discourse, nothing to our purpose. As there is great difference between error and pertinacy, so is there also between errors in faith, and errors in matters of faith. Errors in faith are such as are against the Creed: errors in matters of faith, I understand to be such, as concern the faith in points of lower moment, that deny not the letter of the text, but give, and impose for by-ends, some unwarrantable expositions, unknown to antiquity. Such is that, which was 
(f) Cod. Eccles. Vniver. can. 177  brought in by Charisius, and such are yours, which the Church of England nominates. Though these with the former batter not the foundation, yet they endanger the outworks, and will in time make way to undermine some of the necessary forts.  
30. 'Tis very true, that an error in faith pertinaciously maintained, is no less than heresy: but we say not so of errors in matters of faith. 
(g) Quid faciat Haereticum, regulari quâdam definitione compehendi, sicut ego existimo, aut omnino non pot●st, aut difficillime potest. Aug. Praefat. ad li. de Haeres.  St. Austin was very cautelous in defining an Heretic; and I shall be wary, how I determine what heresy separates from the Catholic Church. And yet your Masters cannot deny, but St. Cyprian (not St. Austin, as you mistake) resolves thus, 
(h) Cypr. Pompeio. ep.  Haeresis Christi sponsa non est; Heresy is not the spouse of Christ. But every thing, that is called heresy by you, or error in doctrine with us, will not separate from the Catholic communion. St. Austin therefore limits it thus, 
(i) Aug. de Fide & Symb. c. 10.  Haeretici de Deo falsa sentiendo, ipsam fidem violant. Quapropter non pertinent ad Ecclesiam Catholicam: every violation of the faith cuts not off from the Catholic Church, but a false opinion of God does; beware of that; take heed how you think amiss of the blessed Trinity, or any person therein. And in this sense is that of Tertullian to be understood, 
(k) Tertul. de Praescrip. c 37.  Si Haeretici sunt, Christiani esse non possunt; where an heresy is against any person of the Trinity, there's no Christianity. That Great Athanasius therefore tells us that 
(l) Athan. de Spiritu sancto. p. 202. 203.  this belief in the Father, the Son, and the holy Ghost, Christ gave to be settled in the Church, as a foundation to the Church, the foundation of faith, and the faith of the Catholic Church. And 
(m) Ib p. 204.  whoever divides the Son from the Father, or reckons the holy Ghost among creatures, he neither hath the Father, nor the Son, sed impius est sine Deo, & infideli deterior, & quidvis potius quam Christianus; but he is an impious man without God, worse than an Infidel, and any thing rather than a Christian. And if no Christian, no member of the Church. 
* Hilar. Pict. ad Constant. Aug. p. 273.  Catholicus sum, nolo esse Haereticus; Christianus sum, non Arianus. Thus far I dare go with these Fathers, but no further. But if, as you will have it, every error in matters of faith pertinaciously held, be an heresy, and separate from the Catholic Church, Rome hath been in an ill case for many years. For those four errors mentioned, § 29. ye have held with pertinacy enough: and yet are they by the Archbishop strongly proved to be errors; though your stomaches be too high to retract them.  
31. But you would fain have me do, what our Church hath never done, that is, to charge your Church with heresy: for say you, 
(n) n. 7.  if the Church of Rome be guilty of heresy, she is no part of the Catholic Church. But I never said, she was guilty of heresy; and till I have just cause to say so, I shall forbear to say, that she is no part of the Catholic Church. And I shall be as tender as my betters have been, to set down, 
(o) Archbishop Lawd. §. 11. n. 1.  what errors in doctrine may give just cause of separation in this bedy, or the parts of it, one from another. I have satisfied myself, that the Reformation of this Church was Canonical, and is justifiable; and that she was and is a very member of the Catholic; in whose communion I have ever lived; wherein also, by God's grace, I am resolved to die. And it were wisdom in you to see your Church justified from those four errors, before you enter into further controversies, As for that, 
(p) n. 7.  which you produce out of the 11 Sect. there it is sufficiently proved, that your Church hath most sacrilegiously rob the Laity of Christ's blood. This is not denied, I take it therefore for confessed; and hope, your Masters will see it mended.  
32. Well, if we will not declare yours to be no Church, you will prove yours or ours to be no Church; and upon these grounds, 
(q) Ib.  4 . say you, Christ's mystical body is but one; and although that body is made up of many members, yet all those members must communicate one with another: for if a member be separated but by schism, it is like an arm cut off from the body, or a branch from the vine; which make that arm or branch no part of the body or vine. What though all this be granted, will this make one of the two, no Church? I believe not. That Christ's mystical body is but one, the Scripture speaks more than once, 1 Cor. 12.13. Eph. 1.23. Col. 1.18. That may not be denied, or questioned. That this body is made up of many members, is liwise testified, Ro. 12.4, 5. 1. Cor. 12.12, etc. And we know, all those members must communicate one with another, and wherein: 
(r) 1. Cor. 12.25, 26.  in the same care one for another; in the same sufferings, and rejoicings one with another. We are not bound to communicate with you in the same ceremonies, gesture, superstition, or error; no more than the hand is bound to communicate with the foot in going, the heels with the ears in hearing, or either with the other in the gout, or any other disease. The difference between you & us, is this, we love the body, and hate the disease; but you love the body so, that ye love, and foster the disease; & hate those, that are not visited with the like contagion. We communicate with you in the necessaries, in Faith, Hope, and Charity, as also in all things essential to a Church. We believe the Scriptures, and the three Creeds with you, though not always in the same sense. Our hopes are the same with yours, though we something differ in the means: and our charity is manifested by our prayers; as heretofore I acquainted you, § 19 But your charity is so little, that rather than we shall be members of the Catholic, ye will be none yourselves.  
33. For 
(s) n. 7.  (say you) if a member be separated but by schism, it is like an arm cut off from the body, or a branch from the vine; which make that arm or branch no part of the body or vine. Very right, it is so; not because it is distant from this or that member, or unlike either in fashion, or comeliness, or office; but because it is cut off from the body, by which it receives life and strength from the head. A Church then must be separated from the mystical body of Christ, before it can be in direct schism; and this must be done by pride, or obstinacy in error. If ye shall excommunicate any man or Church causelessly, the fault is in you, not in them; though they be under Rome's Jurisdiction. But ye have no such power over us; as is sufficiently proved, § 25, 26. Say not then, though yourselves be the hand, or the eye, that 
(t) 1. Cor. 12.15.  because the foot is not the hand, nor 
(u) Ib. v. 16.  the ear, the eye, it is not therefore of the body. God knows, 
(x) Ib. v. 14.  the body is not one member, but many: and each of these receive life from the head, though not every one of these so suddenly, so immediately. Thus 
(y) Ib. v. 13.  by one spirit we are all baptised into one body, the mystical body of Christ. 
(z) Ib. v. 27.  We are therefore the body of Christ, or rather of the body, as Corinth was, 
(a) Ib.  membra de membro, members in part; not members of Rome, but members of the Western Church. And though not Romanists, yet are we both Christians and Catholics. Say not, because we cannot see Transubstantiation and Purgatory, nor wield St. Peter's sword with you, that we are no members; we can hear the voice of the shepherd, and 
(b) Quid relicto capite membris adhaeres? Chrysost. in col. 2.19  we shall not forsake the shepherd to be in league with the members.  
34. Now we draw near your issue, which follows thus; 
* n. 8.  And that the Church of Rome and England are separated by schism, I think, none will deny. For they abhor mutual communion in divine Worship, Sacraments, and holy Rites: and no Protestant will frequent Catholic service, especially in the holy Sacrifice of Mass. A separation there is indeed between you and us; and, if you will, a schism, the more the pity. But 
(c) Archbishop Lawd § 21. n. 1.  the cause of the schism is yours; for ye thrust us from you, because we called for Truth, and redress of abuses. And not only so, but, according to your own words, 
(d) n. 8.  Ye excommunicate us every year, all Protestants in general; a course unheard of, unknown with us. For though some one convicted member of yours be excommunicated, we use not to excommunicate a whole multitude or Nation. We condemn doctrines, not persons; or if persons, for the doctrines sake. Care therefore is taken, that 
(e) Can.  our Parsons and Curates repair to Recusants houses, to confer with them, and to convince their errors, that so they may be won to Church. Neither do we abhor mutual communion with you in divine worship, but in worshipping or adoration of Images and Relics. We cannot endure, that 
(f) Latria, ea dicitur servitus, quae pertinet ad colendum Deum. Aug. de civ. D. l. to. c. 1.  divine worship be given to any other then to the blessed Trinity.  
35. We abhor not your Sacraments, but your half Communion; nor any holy Rites ye have. 
(g) Of Ceremonies, before the Book of Common-prayer.  The excessive multitude of ceremonies, within ourselves, we have pared off. 
(h) Ib.  And in these our do we condemn no other Nation, much less abhor them, nor prescribe any thing but to our own people only: observe that. Yet 
(i) Ib.  such ceremonies we have retained, which do serve to a decent order, and godly Discipline; and such as be apt to stir up the dull mind of man to the remembrance of his duty to God; as also 
(k) Ib.  to the reducing of the people to a most perfect and godly living, without error or superstition. And they, that know any thing, cannot deny, but 
(l) Socrat. l. 5. c. 21. Sozom. l. 7. c. 19  many Rites and observations there were in the East, which were not received in the West. And in the West they were not alike in all places. Of these St. Ambrose speaks thus, 
(m) Ambros. de Sacrament. l. 3. c. 1.  In omnibus cupio sequi Ecclesiam Romanam. Sed tamen & nos homines sensum habemus. Ideo quod ALIBI RECTIUS SERVATUR, & nos recte custodimus. Desirous I am, saith he, to follow the Church of Rome in all things. And yet we are men of understanding. What therefore IS MORE RIGHTLY OBSERVED IN OTHER PLACES, that do we rightly keep. And is it not as lawful for us to do so? Perfection is not at Rome; some observations may be more convenient, yea better in other places. And, I remember, St. Austin tells us, that 
(n) Aug. ep. 118. c. 2.  it was a rule of St. Ambrose, to observe the customs of that Diocese, wherein we reside; to have an eye upon the Bishop, and to do, as he does. This St. Austin took to be counsel from heaven, what ever you think. I would to God, we were so humble, and so flexible, as to submit to this counsel.  
36. And whereas you add, that no Protestant will frequent Catholic service; I must tell you, that we of this Church frequent no other. And our Book of Divine service is Catholic in all things, but in this, that it is not Roman. Were it in the Latin tongue, with a prayer for the Pope by name, and your half Communion, than it would be Catholic enough; though the people went home never the wiser, never the better. I challenge the most able of your faction, to show me any one passage in our Common prayer Book, that is not Catholic. I know, you cannot: I know, it is as agreeable, as possibly may be, to the Catholic faith. I speak not this at haphazard, or out of blind affection; but as St. Austin, so I, 
(o) Aug. de Verbis Dom. Ser. 63. c. 2.  Fides nostra, id est, fides vera, fides recta, fides Catholica, non opinione praesumptionis, sed testimonio lectionis collecta; Our faith, that is, the true, the right, the Catholic faith, which is not collected out of an opinion of presumption, but testified unto us by our serious reading the Scriptures, Counsels, and Fathers; 
(p) Nec haereticâ temeritate incerta, sed Apostolicâ veritate fundata, hoc insinuat, hoc novimus, hoc credimus. Ib.  neither wavering through heretical rashness, but founded upon Apostolical truth, insinuates this unto us; thus we know it, thus we believe it. And for the Sacrifice of the Mass, as ye call it, we acknowledge it to be a Commemorative Sacrifice. Let us have the Communion in both kinds, press us not to believe Transubstantiation, or any of your late inventions, and I know no reason, but we may frequent that, which ye call the Sacrifice of the Mass. I shall not quarrel the word, when the main matter is agreed upon.  
37. Heretofore, whatever you think, so little exception was there to our Divine Service, Worship, Sacraments, Prayers, and holy Rites, that those two memorable Bishops 
(q) Bo. of Mar.  Bonner and Gardiner communicated with us in them; and so did most of the Roman Catholics of this Nation, for ten years under Queen Elizabeth, till that terrible Bull of Pius Quintus came thundering out. Yea Bishop Gardiner subscribes, that the Common-prayer book is a devout, a godly, a Christian Book and Order, etc. 
* Ib. p. 1357.  But as it was with the Donatists, so is it much alike with you: 
(r) Aug. de Verb. Dom. Ser. 49. c. 10.  they in the height of pride trumpeted it out, Nos sanctificamus, nos justificamus, nos facimus justos; we are the men, that sanctify; we are the men, that justify; we make you just. Ecce, quo ascenderunt; Behold, to what an height they were grown. And are not ye ascended to a strange height, to say, Nos facimus Catholicos, We are they, that make men Catholics. Side with us, and ye are Catholics; differ from us in the least point, and ye are Heretics? St. Paul is of another mind; 
(s) Ro. 14.3, 4.  in meats, in matters of indifferency, in such things, that are not of necessity to be done, we are not to judge one another. 
(t) Phil. 3.15, 16.  If in these kind of things, and such as tend to perfection of life, we be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto us: so that we walk by the same rule, whereto we have attained. That is 
(u) Chrysost. in loc.  so we preserve the same faith, and keep the same commandments. So St. chrysostom. These, these are the rule, we must be sure to walk by.  
38. From Divine service you descend to the public Statutes and Laws of the Land, whereby it is enacted, 
(x) n. 8.  that any one, who should reconcile one of the Church of England, to the Church of Rome, is guilty of death. And reason good, since ye have so many traitorous principles against the Oaths of Allegiance and Supremacy, against the honour and safety of Princes. Indeed what is this reconciling to Rome, which by the Laws is condemned, but a withdrawing of the people from their obedience, to give that to the Pope, which is due to their Prince? This is plain by the Statute, whose words are these, 
(y) 3. Jac. 4.  That person, who shall put in practice to absolve, persuade, or withdraw any of his Majesty's Subjects from their natural OBEDIENCE TO HIS MAJESTY, or to reconcile them to the Pope or Sea of Rome, or to move them, or any of them, to PROMISE OBEDIENCE TO ANY PRETENDED AUTHORITY OF THE SEA OF ROME, That then every such person, their Procurers, etc. shall be adjudged Traitors: and being thereof lawfully convicted, shall have judgement, and suffer as in cases of High Treason. You see the Law, and the reason of this Law. If this will not satisfy, the same Statute says moreover, that 
(z) Ib.  It is found by daily experience, that many his Majesty's Subjects, that adhere in their hearts to the Popish Religion, by the infection drawn from thence, and by the wicked and devilish counsel of Jesuits, Seminaries, etc. are so far PERVERTED IN POINT OF LOYALTY and due allegiance, as they are ready to entertain and execute any treasonable conspiracies, and practices; as appears by the Gunpowder-treason. By this time you see the reason of this Act; and cannot deny it to be just.  
39 But (if you speak truth) a Priest, that shall but celebrate Mass, is made guilty of High Treason. So you say; but upon search I can find no such Statute. Indeed an Act there is, that 
(a) 23. Eliz. 1.  Every person that shall say or sing Mass, being thereof lawfully convicted, shall forfeit the sum of 200 Marks, and be committed to prison till he pay this sum. And 
(b) Ib.  Every person, that shall willingly hear Mass, shall forfeit the sum of 100 Marks, and suffer imprisonment for a year. The like penal Laws have been heretofore set forth by the best Christian Emperors, 
(c) Socrat. l. 1. c. 6 Sozom. l. 1. c. 19  by Constantine the Great against the Arians. But the Donatists were Schismatical Sectaries; and 
(d) Aug. ep. 48.  against these he made also a Decree, that so many of those as refused to be united to the Church, should forfeit their personal estates. Many such Laws are to be seen in the African Code. And our Saviour's command is, that 
(e) St. Luc. 14.23.  the people be compelled to come into his house. And this care hath been taken for the good of all sorts of Recusants, that so 
(f) 1. Eliz. 2. & 23. Eliz. 1.  they might be drawn to Church, to serve God with one mind, and one mouth; which every National Church is bound to do. Care therefore is taken, that 
(g) Cod. Eccles. Vnivers. can. 81  we pray with the people. But how do they pray with the people, who pray in a tongue, the people understand not? 
(h) Ib.  Neither ought we, in times of peace, to communicate with such, as meet in private houses, and frequent not the Church prayers. 
(i) Ib.  And they, that abhor one Church, are not to be received into another. Ye therefore, that will not communicate in prayers with your own Mother Church, ought not to be received by any member of the Catholic. And in doing so, in receiving such, as you are, Rome offends against the Laws of the Catholic Church.  
40. These Canons are little observed, little thought of: all, that is studied in these days, is to continue the breach, and to make it wider. Hence is this exclamation, 
(k) n. 8.  How therefore can one Church, Christ's mystical body, grow up together of such different members? That Christ's mystical body consists, and grows up of different members, is clear, 1. Cor. 12.12, etc. and all these receive life and power from the same head; even those very members, that are distorted, or diseased. The sound hand therefore cannot say to the lame leg, or gouty foot, Thou art not of the same body: but according to the directions of the head, the sound hand provides and applies a plaster to the diseased member. Observable it is, that between the Eastern & Western Churches were many differences, viz. 1. About the observation of Easter. 2. Rebaptization of Heretics. 3. Procession of the holy Ghost. 4. The number of Sacraments. 5. The manner of Ordination. 6. The Canonical Books of the Old Testament, and some other. And yet for all these, they grew up together comfortably, and continued in the same body. Seldom or never any, that offered to make a breach, or to censure other Churches for these or the like different observations and expressions, but two or three Bishops of Rome. Such were the humility and charity of those glorious Saints. In those purer days 
(l) Neminem judicantes, aut a jure communionis aliquem, si diversum sensevit, amoventes. Cypr. in council. Carthag.  one Bishop was not so forward to censure or excommunicate another Bishop, for being of a divers persuasion. No, no, saith St. Cyprian, 
(m) Ib.  Neque quisquam nostrum Episcopum se esse Episcoporum constituit, aut tyrannico terrore ad obsequendi necessitatem collegas suos adegit, No man in those days took upon him to be Bishop of Bishops, or to enforce any by tyrannical terror to subscribe his dictates. Then was it lawful for every one to speak his mind freely, when reason, not power; weight, and not number, bore the sway.  
41. But you object, that 
(n) n. 8.  I say Sect. 19 that since the Reformation we have not communicated with the Church of Rome. Very right, I do so. But withal I tell you, that this is no fault of ours; since ye will not suffer us to communicate with you, unless we communicate with your errors. Is not this to deal with us, as the Jews did with the poor man, that was born blind? 
(o) St. Jo. 9.34.  while he was blind, the Pharisees communicated with him; but when he had gained sight, they cast him out, they excommunicated him. But 
(p) Ib. v. 35.  our blessed Saviour took pity on him, and received him into his communion. Thus, while we were blind, and saw not your errors, we were your dear friends: but when we discerned them, and complained of them, hell was good enough for us. Yet we doubt not, but 
(q) 1. St. Jo. 1.3.  we have communion with Christ, since we hold communion with the Apostles by their successors, not only in function, but in faith and charity. For we receive the two Testaments, with the three Creeds, in the same sense with the Primitive Church. We pray for the whole Church; for all Jews, Turks, Infidels, and Heretics; yea for our enemies, persecutors, and slanderers. We anathematise not Churches, but errors; nor any persons, but such as are, or aught to be, members of this Church and Kingdom: we press not beyond our line. If this be the right way to heaven, surely we are in the right, and ye in the wrong.  
42. Well, 
(r) n. 9  the Church of Rome and England being thus separated, both in faith and communion, and so not one: and the Church of Rome, and those in communion with her, by your saying not being the Catholic Church. For the separation we must thank you, for our faith we bless Christ. What that is, the Book of Common-prayer manifests in plain terms: and I have showed, that the Pope and his Conclave have incurred Canonical censures, by imposing a new Creed upon us and others. That we communicate not with you, the fault is yours: and Catholics we shall be able to prove ourselves, when ye will not be found Orthodox. But such is that typhus Romanus, the infinite pride of Rome, that none shall be Catholics, none in communion of the Church, nor in the way to heaven, that will not stoop to their lure, that will not err with Pius Quartus, and the Council of Trent. As if the Romans were the only, at least had been the first Christians; and that St. Peter's keys were tied to the Pope's girdle, to let in, and to keep out whom he listed. Whereas we know, 
(s) St. Jo. 20.22, 23.  the keys were given to all the Apostles alike, to St. John for Ephesus, as much as to St. Peter for Rome. Yea 
(t) Hieron.  St. Peter himself provided for Antioch before Rome; for he was first, Bishop of Antioch. The same keys to all the Apostles for all Nations alike; that so all might be admitted by the same keys into the same 
(u) 1. Tim. 3.15.  house of God, which is the Church of the living God, the pillar and ground of truth. And in this house by God's grace we shall continue, while 
(x) Col. 2.19.  we hold the head, and from thence receive nourishment, by those joints and bands, which Christ hath ordained. And, 
* For the judgement of the whole controversy, we refer unto the most holy Scriptures, and the Catholic Church of Christ. The Protest. of Bish. Scory, etc. Book of Mart. p. 2120  were your party contented, to be ruled by antiquity, we might be one, as the house is one.  
43. That the Church of Rome, and those in communion with her, are not (as you would fain have it) the Catholic Church, is fully manifested in my former answer, § 2, etc. 12, 22, 23, 29. And yet there was the Catholic Church at all times, since it was first constituted. 
(y) Aug. de Gen. ad lit. imperfect. c. 1.  Mater enim Ecclesia, Catholica dicitur ex eo, quia universaliter perfecta est, & in nullo claudicat, & per totum orbem diffusa est: the Mother Church is hence called Catholic, because she is universally perfect, and halts in nothing, and is diffused through the whole world. She is not Catholic, or sound, because she communicates with Rome; but Rome is Catholic, if she communicate with her, and so is every Church. We shall therefore communicate with this our Mother, that so we may continue Catholic. We are sure, the Mother halts not, though some of the Daughters may. That Rome hath halted downright in the prime Articles, is too notorious, as hath been showed, § 18, 27, 32, etc. and then, I am sure, she was not Catholic. 
(z) Vincent. Lirin. c. 14.  Nemini enim licet, praeter id, quod Ecclesia Catholica usquequaque evangelizat, accipere: for it is not lawful for her, or any other, to receive, or broach any other doctrine, then that, which the Catholic Church preaches every where; much less to enforce it as necessary to salvation. Where then ye leave the Church Catholic, it is our duty to leave you. 
(a) Estnè aliquis tantae audaciae, qui praeter id, quod apud Ecclesiam adnunciatum est, adnunciet, vel tantae levitatis, qui praeter id, quod ab Ecclesiâ accipit, accipiat? Ib. This Church he speaks of, is not the Roman but the Catholic Church.  As it is audaciousness in you, to induce, or impose any new Article, so were it levity in us to embrace it.  
44. What we have, we have received from our good Mother the Catholic Church: and though by you, yet not from you; Christ's legacies they are, not yours. If ye deliver us these legacies in base or counterfeit coin, we shall not accept of it. Gold ye received from the Testator, and not lead, we know it by his Will; give us that, which ye received, and not gilded stuff in stead of gold. If ye tender to us, that, which is unwarrantable, we are resolved 
(b) Gal. 1.8, 9  with the vessel of Election, to denounce to you or any other, an Anathema; we shall not, we must not endure novum dogma, any new Article. If new, it can never be right. 
(c) 2 Tim. 3.15.  The Scripture is able to make us wise unto salvation; that we set before us, and are resolved, by God's grace, to accept of nothing, but what is deduced from thence, or proved thereby, according to the interpretation of the ancient Fathers and Counsels. While our Church does thus, in spite of malice she shall be Catholic. 
(d) Dediscam benè, quod didicerunt non benè. Vincent. Lirin. c. 25.  If we chance to learn any thing contrary to this, we are bound in Christianity to cast it by, though it come from Rome; and to 
(e) Ib.  betake ourselves into the bosom of our Catholic Mother, as into the safest harbour. There we are sure to find the living waters, and tree of life.  
45. Your desire is behind, but differing from the former. Before your desire was, to be shown the Catholic Church distinct from the Church of Rome, and those in her communion, for the last 1100 years. To this satisfaction is given, § 29, 32, etc. But now 
(f) n. 9  your desire is to be showed the Catholic Church, or the Church of England, distinct from the Church of Rome, and those in her communion, for the last 1100 years, or for so ●●ng, as I please to say, the Church of Rome hath so grievously erred, that we dare not communicate with her. This desire of yours (according to your own words) is not, nor by my Papers can he satisfied. Is it not enough to manifest, that your present errors are so gross and grievous, that we dare not communicate with the Church of Rome, but we must look back to former centuries? In my former Papers I have done it, but you will not see it. Other eyes, I presume, will discern this done, § 32, 33, 34. in my former answer. Of these you take little notice, because you are resolved with the selfconceited Pharisee, to be what you are. And with 
(g) §. 11.  that Lady I spoke of, you ask not this, or any other question, as if you meant to be satisfied, with what is, or can be said. Surely we did not communicate with Rome in the time of Zepherinus, Marcellinus, Liberius, Vigilius, Honorius, and those 
(h) Genebrard. Chron. l. 4. Ann. 991.  50 Apostatical Popes, whom Genebrard speaks of. And great reason for it, since in those days ye separated yourselves from the Church Catholic to side with Heretics, and worse, if worse may be. Then was this Church distinct from yours, because yours was divided from that Church, 
(i) 1. Tim. 3.15  which is the pillar and ground of truth. If ye depart from the truth, we shall, and must departed from you. 
(k) Hos. 4.15.  Though Israel transgress, yet must not Judah sin. We must not be naught for company; 
(l) Exod. 23.2.  neither may we follow a multitude to do evil.  
Your Letters are answered, and your desires, I hope, satisfied beyond your desire. Your conclusion I like so well it shall be mine. With you therefore I beseech Almighty God to look favourably into the souls deceived by devilish deceits, that all heretical impieties removed, the hearts of them that err, may relent, and return to the unity of his truth; and become one fold under one shepherd Jesus Christ, our Lord; to whom, with the Father and the holy Ghost, be all honour, and glory, world without end, Amen.  
Placet vobis quaestio proposita; Deus adjuvet, ut placeat & soluta. Ecce quod dico, ut liberet & me, & vos. 1. In una enim fide stamus in nomine Christi; & 2. in una domo 3. sub uno Domino vivimus; & 4. in uno corpore membra 5. sub uno capite sumus, & 6. uno spiritu vegetamur.  Aug. de Verb. Domini, Ser. 63. c. 3. 
FINIS.