A DEFENCE OF THE LAWFULNESS OF Baptising Infants. As also of the present Baptism, as it hath continued in the several ages of the world, from John Baptist the first beginner thereof: In way of Answer to something written by JOHN SPILSBERIE against the same.  1 Thes. 5. 12. 
Try all things, hold fast that which is good.  Psal. 105. 8. 
He hath remembered his Covenant for ever, the word which he commanded to a thousand generations.  Deut. 30. 6. 
And the Lord thy God will circumcize thy heart, and the heart of thy seed, etc.  
LONDON, Printed by M. Bell for Benjamin Allen, and are to be sold at his shop in Pope's head Alley at the sign of the Crown. 1645.   

To the Reader.  
THe holy Scriptures do inform us of two several persecutions raised by Satan against that innocent part of the Church (to wit, Infants) beside the persecutions which inclusively they at several times have suffered with the rest of the Church. The first was by Pharaoh, that sore oppressor of Israel, that held them in such cruel bondage. The second was by bloody Herod. Our Lord himself in this latter was personally concerned, he then being an Infant, and Rachel's Infants suffering for him. In both which it is considerable the time when: In the first, it was when the Israelites were near deliverance from Egypt's bondage. The second was when the Deliverer was come to Zion, and deliverance it was near at hand. In like kind now in this last age; now God is delivering of his Church from the long and sore bondage of spiritual Babylon (called Sodom and Egypt) he returning to her as in the days of old. There is even now also a sore persecution against this innocent part of the Church, which is so much the more sad and grievous in these three respects: First, in that it is raised and carried on by such as pretend to be friends and lovers of Zion the Church of God; if it were by open and professed enemies, it were more easy to be borne. Secondly, in that they pretend to the glory of God this their persecuting and casting out a part of his heritage; as did of old those that cast out their brethren, and said, Let the Lord be glorified, Esay 66. by which means many are deceived. Thirdly, in that their opposition is against them in a spiritual regard, it being against their relation to God, to his Church, to his gracious Covenant, or Covenant of grace: from all which they seclude them, driving them out of God's heritage, that they may go serve other gods, spoiling them of all their external rights and privileges, and so leaving them among the dead; to wit, in trespasses and sins.  
Pharaoh endeavoured to destroy, and Herod killed a part of this part of the Church. But these in a spiritual sense have destroyed all this part of the Church; not one left alive, in way of relation to God, or interessed externally in Jesus Christ.  
But this hard and injurious dealing Jehovah that is mighty, and Jesus Christ that is gracious, who manifested much tender respect unto these, will plead their cause and right their wrong against such as rise up against them as he did of old, for he taketh it as done against himself.  
Courteous Reader, in the behalf of these innocent Saints, to whom the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ is most free, they having nothing to bring unto him (no not so much as good words) I do make defence in their cause, as touching their right in the Covenant of grace, and part in the Church of God, to whom they having relation as to a father, and are therein blessed, as such are whose God is the Lord.  
Now I have thought good to offer it to thy view, in regard that a great part of what I have said for them, and against their opposers, runneth in another line something different from what is usually pleaded in their behalf; that it might be considered of, together with an answer to some things controvertable in that way, about the raising of Baptism pretended to be lost, but indeed continued by the power of God under the defilements of Antichrist. The exceptions against the said continuance I have made answer unto, as also some other particulars handled; all which I have referred to thy judgement, forbearing such confident expressions of proof and full proof (as is to be found not in a few of this way and others also) that in the judgement of the Reader have made proof of nothing at all. Indeed such confident praising of a man's own work is a certain sign of the weakness of it. Use thy rightful liberty (good Reader) in the consideration of what is said, and be impartial, seeing thou art free.  
Now for my particular Opponent, I profess as much respect and tender of love to him as to any of that way, and therefore desire that nothing may be misconstrued in regard of the manner of any proceed, nor of any phrases; wherein I intent no hurt, but to quicken the Reader, and to make the matter more plausible to some that are dull. If any ask, why I answer only a part, and not the whole book published by my opposite: I answer, first, that a great part of it was an answer to some others, to whom I leave it to make reply if they please. Secondly, in regard that some other part of the Book is in way of opposal of their opinion that hold not alike the truth of the Church and Baptism in the defection, but hold the truth of Baptism only. I might do them wrong, for want of ability, to manage and make out the matter, therefore I have forborn and left it to themselves, if they please to make defence.  
In regard some part of this Contest is of personal Reformation and proceed from corrupt ways; to serve God purely, the main work of this present age, I shall take the boldness to forewarn in love and sobriety all persons to take heed to their setting out at the first; for want whereof this and other errors have been fallen into by not a few. A person missing his way at the first setting out, the further he goeth the further out and to seek; even so it is in this, one error begetteth another, and another; and there is no end till men sit down in darkness.  
That person that cast away the truth of his relation to God, to Christ, externally, because of defilements, will never be able to make out his relation in a way of purity. Other foundation can none lay then that which is laid already, no not ingard of outward Religion and the service of God. It is safest keeping to this, lest men make their ease like those that coming from captivity sought their descent and could not find it, and so might not be admitted to special Ordinances, but by Vrim, etc. Esra 2. 62. 63. Their labour is to be pitied that know not the way to the City; how shall such be ever stayed in their course, or settled in their way, or free from error and changes from one to another, that hold not the truth of God's holy Ordinances to have continued in the world, but to be ceased by means of the defilements that have attended them. Consider of it, courteous Reader, and of the whole ensuing matter, which I commend to thy consideration and the blessing of God, to cause thee to profit, which if in any thing thou shalt do I have my desire, and so rest  
Thine in the service of love P. B.   

The Contents.  

CHAP. I. COntaining an Answer to nine Reasons against the baptising of Infants. fol. 1  
CHAP. II. Containing a discovery of the vain pretence of finding Baptism lost, and fallen out of the world, in the holy Scriptures of God. fol. 17  
CHAP. III. Containing a defence of the judgement of such as hold that Baptism hath continued the Ordinance of God under the defilements of Antichrist. fol. 32  
CHAP. iv Containing a defence of their judgement, that hold no right, or orderly ministerial Church, without or before Baptism. fol. 57    

A Defence of the lawfulness of the Baptising Infants.  

CHAP. I. Containing an Answer to reasons set down in page 25. why Infants should not be Baptised; the several Reasons being set down in order, their several and respective Answers do follow.  
Reason I BEcause there is neither command nor example for the baptising Infants in the New Testament; the order and government of which is no way inferior to the old: But in the old there was an express rule by command from God what Communicants were to be admitted to Circumcison, and other Ordinances of that nature, and what not: But this order is not where found in the New Testament for the baptising of Infants, and therefore the same is not to be practised.  
Answer. This first Reason placed in the front is wholly upon supposition, concluding, and so taking that for granted which is wholly in controversy, and the contrary as confidently affirmed by his Oponents as denied by him (namely, That there is neither Precept nor Example for baptising Infants) which they affirm there is. Again, this Reason is wholly by way of deduction and inference, without any Scripture either for ground or confirmation of it, of which he complaineth in his Epistle, and yet he practiseth it himself, and that in his first Reason.  
Secondly, it is observable how he by this Reason excludeth a great and main part of the Scripture, namely, necessary consequence, and right inference, being such a way as our Lord himself used to confute the Sadduces withal, 
* Mat. 22. 32.  I am the God, etc. God is not the God of the dead: here is neither command nor example, and yet the truth fully evinced, the mind of God manifested, and the Sadduces confuted.  
Thirdly, it is an unsound conclusion, that because there is no command or example in the New Testament, therefore not to be done. There is no particular example nor particular command for women's partaking in the Supper, yet they are judged lawful Communicants. There is no example nor particular command for translation of Scriptures, or that such translations be used in Church-meetings, yet it is lawfully done. Lastly, there is no command or example for an unbaptized person to baptise himself or others. So as if this first Argument were true, I. S. and those of his way would be in a poor case.  
Fourthly, it is untrue that which he inferreth, there being both example and precept in the Scripture for the baptising of Infants, though he cannot see it, 1 Corinth. 10. Matth. 28. compared with Esay 52. 15. which shall be further showed hereafter in making it to appear that children are yet a part of the Church; and so, both precept and example being for the washing of the whole, it must include them necessarily as a part, Ephes. 5. 26.  
Reason TWO It is a high contempt and injury to Christ, as he is Husband of the Church his holy Spouse, to force on him a natural wife, himself being spiritual, and desires the like associate; as such a Church is founded upon nature, namely, Infants; because commonly to one borne of the Spirit there is twenty borne of the flesh.  
Answer. First, here is a high charge without proof, no Scripture produced for confirmation. Is not this rather a high contempt and presumption? Is it not a sad thing that a man should fall under the condemnation of his own law, or otherwise exempt himself from that which he will bind others unto (namely, to bring the Scriptures and not consequences?  
Secondly, this Reason accuseth God himself, in giving the Church of old, namely, those seed of Abraham by generation (which he calleth carnal) to Christ his Son to wife; Jesus Christ our Lord being the same spiritual Head and Husband, Yesterday, and to day, and for ever, Heb. 13. 8.  
Thirdly, it is no injury to Christ or contempt of him (though without any Word of God he so say) for Christ to have the heathen 
Psal. 2. 8.  given him for inheritance, and the ends of the earth for his possession. It is no injury to him (though the Disciples thought it was) to have little children brought to him, his Kingdom consisting of such (in quantity as well as quality) Matth. 19 13.  
Fourthly, why cannot Children be spiritual and holy as well now under the Gospel as they were under Abraham and Moses; when they as well as those of years were an holy people to the Lord God 
* Exod. 19 6, 7 Dent. 6, 7. Esay 9 2. ? and the same is said of the Church now: but ye are an holy Nation, a peculiar people, 1 Pet. 2. 9 Beside, what spiritualness was there in the five foolish Virgins 
* Matth. 25, , I would know, that is not, or may not be in children? and is not there as much injury offered to Christ in giving them to Christ to wife? Truly this is weak and inconsiderate so to reason, not minding that many are called, and few chosen, Matth. 22. 14.  
Lastly, this Reason is wholly upon supposition, the accusation without proof: who forceth on Christ? It is his pleasure to take such, and reproveth such as would hinder them, and saith, Suffer such to come, they being of my Kingdom, Matth. 22. The computation in the end is as weak as all the rest, for it was so of old, no new thing at all; all are not Israel that are of Israel, 
* Rom. 9 27.  and if the number of Israel were as the sand of the sea, but a remnant shall be saved.  
Reason III It is a practice that over throws the body of Christ or holy temple of God, for in time it will come to consist of natural and carnal members; amongst whom if any godly be, they will be brought into bondage, and become subjects of scorn and contempt, and the power of government rest in the hands of the wicked.  
Answ. This is but only said, and that by one that may err and be mistaken. John Baptist though sent of God, yet he cryeth, as it is written. 
Matth. 3. 3.  I. S. is a stranger in his reasons to what is written, though, as we noted before, he doth account it such a faulty thing in others, yet he pleaseth himself all along in his reasons to infer this and the other thing to little purpose, unless to deceive.  
Secondly, this practice of old (namely of propagating the Church by generation) was so far from destroying the Church, as that it did tend to the increase of it greatly, and was a means of 
Gen. 17. 20. 22. 17. 26 4 24. Esay 4. 8, 19 Psal. 105. 8.  the continuing of it according to the gracious Covenant of God to a thousand generations, and his promise to the seeds seed. 
a Esay 59 14.  Now that Covenant is yet in force, and that promise Yea, and Amen 
b 2 Cor. 1. 20.  in Christ, as are all other of like nature.  
Thirdly, this is an inference savouring of ignorance, or else diffidence, or both; hath not God said that he will pour his Spirit upon their seed (to wit of his Church) and his blessing upon 
c Esay 44. 3.  their offspring? and that all their children shall be 
d Esay 54. 13.  taught of God? that his Church shall be a praise in the world 
e Esay 62. 7.  when he shall return in favour to Zion, that the Gentiles shall bring their riches to her 
f Esay 60. ? nay, hath he not said, that the kingdom and greatness thereof shall be given to the Saints of the most high, 
g Dan. 7. 27.  and that this honour have all the Saints 
h Psal 144 9 ?  
Last of all, what ever is or can be conceived in this reason, either in the parts of it or the whole put together, cannot amount to make good the charge, the whole supposed proof reaching but to the well-being and purity of the Church at the most, and not to the being of it, it being so far from destroying of it, as is affirmed; the which I leave to the judgement of the Reader.  
Reason IV It is unlawful to baptise Infants, because it is a ground both of ignorance and error; for it holds people in blindness, that they cannot come to see and know the nature of that holy Ordinance, nor what the same requires in the subjects thereof; and also it causeth the simple to conceive that Baptism is of necessity to salvation.  
Answ. That it is so as this Reason affirmeth, if any please to believe it they may; sure there is no Word of God produced to enforce them, nor yet good reason or necessary consequence, which the Author disliketh in others, to move them to it.  
Secondly, this Reason savoureth of arrogancy, and intrencheth on the wisdom of God that established this very thing in the substance of it in circumcision of old, it being then no ground of ignorance nor error; neither is it now, though he so say, there being no more cause given to simple now to think so of Baptism, than was given them then in case of Circumcision. Indeed it is rather likely their keeping such ado about Baptism, and building such high things thereon may occasion some strange thoughts to such as are simple, as surely it doth.  
Thirdly, I ask what should be the reason they cannot see the nature of the ordinances, etc. The Baptising of Infants doth not let or hinder the knowledge of persons of years, those are not the persons he meaneth surely; for I appeal to himself, whether he in particular be hindered at all thereby. Nay further, it hindereth not Infants when they come to years from understanding the nature and ends of the Ordinance, no more than it did in the case of Circumcision the Israelites of old; it being God's appointment, that children 
Ephes. 6. 4.  now, as of old, should be trained up in knowledge and understanding. If any be hindered from understanding the nature and ends of this Ordinance, such are a great cause of it, in regard of many that are of the judgement and practice of I. S. who being so mutable in their course, one while laying down, another time taking up, and then casting away again. And beside altering the ends of Baptism and rejecting the proper subjects of it, namely, the lineal seed of the faithful, that many they converse withal are at their wit's end, and know not what to hold or settle upon. And that it is so, and also that this reason hath no force in it against the baptising Infants, I leave the Reader to judge.  
Reason 5 It keepeth up the state of Antichrist, by granting of him this so chief a cornerstone of the Lords House to lie in his foundation; for that Church where Baptism is the true ordinance of God in the administration of it, is by the rule of the Gospel a true Church; so that if Antichrists Baptism, which he administereth be God's Ordinance, than that Church wherein he doth so administer the same must be also the Church of God, and those in sin that refuse communion with it.  
Answer. It may here be minded that divers things are here in this Reason affirmed and concluded, but nothing at all proved; we know what is written to the Law and Testimony, Esay 8. 20. but I. S. seemeth to be a stranger to that, and chooseth inferences, such as he found great fault with in his Epistle. No man needs to believe what is said in this Reason unless he will.  
Secondly, who granteth this to lie in the foundation of Antichrist? surely I. S. surmiseth and taketh for granted that which is not acknowledged; if any do or have done, it is not for want of ignorance. Jeroboam made a schism, set up an idolatrous way of worship and calves; and yet notwithstanding that way of his, there was Circumcision, the Ordinance of God, and no part of the foundation of his idolatrous way, nor any cornerstone in the building thereof. Neither is Baptism now any more a part of the foundation of Antichrist, or cornerstone in that building. And if I. S. were not ignorant of this mystery of iniquity, he would not thus reason as he doth. This mystery of iniquity it wrought in the Church 
2 Thes. 2.  in the Apostles time, when Baptism was God's Ordinance, and no part of that foundation or cornerstone in that building, as neither is now any part of it. Let I. S. if he can, show when Baptism became such a cornerstone in the foundation of that building; or why it should be so, more than Circumcision of old was a cornerstone in that idolatrous state and way of Jeroboam and the Calves: let him show how long it continued Gods holy Ordinance, and when it ceased so to be.  
Thirdly, Christ is the chief cornerstone, and this cornerstone is in 
Ephes. 2. 20.  that dessection (yet not part of it;) I suppose I. S. granteth it, and will not deny it, That there is in many in this Kingdom (especially) and 
John Hus & alia.  else where, as it was also formerly, such as in whom Christ and his Word and Spirit dwell, yet are not come out of that state according to his sense. Now to grant this is more likely to keep up the state of Antichrist; and to deny this sure he dare not. Let him see how he will avoid his own Argument upon his own ground: Surely some have seen this, and thereupon have held no faith, no grace, no Christ till so separated from Babylon. Sure he must either renounce his reason or fall under the condemnation of it, if he be true to his own principle. In this particular that now I set down, if my judgement fail me not, he will never be able to avoid it, by granting the Scriptures translated to be the Word of God, and useful in the Church; which Babylon hath translated, keepeth and holdeth forth and buildeth upon. Now for him and others to receive, hold, and keep the same, and to acknowledge them as Gods, it must sure be, according to his reason, a keeping up the state of Antichrist, by granting this foundation to his building, and this cornerstone Jesus Christ; for of the Scriptures its said, and are built upon the foundation of the Prophets and Apostles, Christ the chief corner 
Ephes. 2. 20.  Stone.  
But now in stead of the Word of the Lord, for proof of what he had affirmed in his reason, he giveth only his own saying to very little purpose surely; That Church, saith he, where Baptism is the true Ordinance of God (as if God had some false Ordinances) in the administration of it. Observe, he hath got the word true to help him along; that Church, saith he, by the rules of the Gospel is a true Church; what rule or rules he meaneth is hard to guess, he setteth down no place of Scripture. Again, it is observable how he closeth with them he opposeth, making the Word and Sacraments infallible marks of the Church; yea, one of them alone, to wit, Baptism. And yet he holdeth a Church may be Christ's without Baptism, as in his book may be seen.  
He inferreth further, and thereby will prove (for want of Scripture) that if Baptism be true, the Church is true. I ask Master I. S. if the Apostate ten tribes were a true Church, for it is certain their Circumcision was true. So as here the Reader may see how he maketh the Church and Baptism such special relatives, as the one gives being to the other, as the father doth to the son, etc. and yet he holdeth an unbaptized Church, as we noted before.  
He addeth further, That it being the Church of God, it is sin in any not to communicate with her. A confident charge, but where is the proof? alas, it is altogether wanting: Communion with a Church is the question to which I shall say a little, and leave the Reader to judge. First, I distinguish of Churches; secondly, of Communion: Churches are either pure and undefiled, or otherwise corrupt, and in sundry things polluted. Communion, it is either general, consisting in owning, acknowledging, and standing for, or it is special and peculiar in fellowship and worship.  
Now for a Church corrupt and defiled, general communion only can lawfully be extended; especially, if she be greatly defiled, for we may not partake of others sins, though we are to own their virtues and good things that are in them, and hold relation to them while they 
1 Tim. 5. 22.  hold the head: but with a pure Church we may and aught to extend communion in all the parts of communion. But the question being of communion with a corrupt Church, I say, we are to hold general communion with the same, and to own it for the relation it hath to Christ, so long as it holdeth the head. And if particular communion in Ordinance can be extended without partaking in sin, we should not be wanting that way, as occasion is offered. But though with such a Church in general, and further as we can without sin, yet not with her in sin; we are to keep ourselves pure, as before. And in this case, that is very considerable, Revel. 18. 4. Come out of her, my people, that ye partake not of her sins.  
So that here I both grant and also deny that which I. S. affirmeth. I grant, if it be a Church, though corrupt, yet so long as it hath relation to Christ, it is sin not to own her and acknowledge her relation. I wish I. S. were free from this sin that condemneth as no Churches of Christ all the Churches of God in the world; only those of his way. I pray him to consider of it.  
I also deny what he saith, being referred to that special communion in ordinance and worship, which we are bound no further unto then as we may partake with them without sin and defilement; the seven thousand could not, might not, ought not to have bowed to Baal, or kissed the calves, or gone to Gilgal to transgress; 
Rom. 11. 4. Hosea 13. 2. Hosea 4. 15. Amos 5. 5.  nor yet join with those Priests made of the lowest of the people, yet were they the Church of God, and Circumcision and other of God's Ordinances might be done lawfully of them. Yea, those of the Church did not sin in abstaining communion in Judah itself in the time of Ahaz and Manasses; for, as in going to Gilgal, so in going to Jerusalem they should have transgressed.  
All which considered, I conceive it will appear to be very fabulous which I. S. affirmeth of Infant's Baptism keeping up the state of Antichrist; for indeed the contrary is rather true, That the denial of them right to that holy Ordinance, doth rather keep up that state by the hardening them, that otherwise would come out. And also by the great confusion (like another Babel) which this opinion and practice produceth. All which I leave to the judgement of the godly wise.  
Reason VI It is unlawful to baptise Infants, for that is to build faith upon humane testimony in matters fundamental; for such as are baptised in infancy, have no other way to satisfy themselves or others but the bare word of man that must stand in the place of the Word of God, for such their truly receiving so holy an Ordinance of God.  
Answer. This Reason is very unlike, I. S. he promiseth fair for gravity and wisdom, etc. but surely such a shallow and unsound Argument was never framed before: I suppose it is not his own, but that he hath received it without consideration from some one that he was highly taken withal; and being a new thing, it pleased him, and he set it amongst his reasons why he would not have children baptised, that they might be something for number, though nothing in substance and weight.  
His scope is easy, but his expressions dark and covert; I shall go over them by way of quere. First, I would feign know what faith he here meaneth, whether Historical or of some other kind. Secondly, I would know what he meaneth by building faith upon humane testimonies. Thirdly, I would know what he meaneth by matters fundamental, and how the receipt of the Ordinance can be a matter fundamental, when the person may not only be matter, but part of a Church without it, as he holdeth. Fourthly, I would know how the word of man stands in the place of the Word of God, and what he meaneth by the bare word of man in this matter of fact. Lastly, I would know what he meaneth by truly receiving this holy Ordinance (and whither he hold there be a false receiving this Ordinance, and yet the Ordinance holy and true to them that receive it. This Reason, as it is set down, I take to be something like a spell.  
The sum of it in other words. I take to be this, Infants are not to be baptised, for that they cannot be assured when they come to years that they were baptised, but by the witness of man; and if that fail, than there is no way of satisfying of themselves that they were at all baptised.  
To which I answer; first, that I would not much strive with a person in such a case: If that were the cause that the probablenesse of his not being at all Baptised were the cause that moved him to desire to be Baptised; especially if it did appear to them by whom he should seek to be Baptised, that he had not been Baptised at all. But surely this is far from the case in question; wherein men get themselves baptised: not that they think they were not baptised at all, but that they judge it was not the Baptism of Christ, because of the corruptions in the subject, instrument, or the manner of their being baptised, which made the matter null and void.  
Secondly, I would have it minded how a person circumcised in youth could be assured when he came to years, especially if his Circumcision were gathered and grown, so as he could not see the print in the flesh: For this Reason, if it hath any force in it, it hath the same against Circumcision in Infancy as against Baptism; for such so circumcised, could be no otherwise assured then such a way as will come within the compass of humane testimony. If it be said, They might satisfy themselves by the sight of the print of the flesh; I answer, that might be gathered and grown so as not to be seen. And again, if it were not, that fight is not the Word of God; and beside, they might be mistaken, or be circumcised unlawfully.  
Thirdly, that others were circumcised of old, or are baptised now, especially those to be joined with in public Ordinances and special communion. Now how could the Israelites know of old, or how can it be known now in particular, how will I. S. to put the case to himself, how will he, I say, know and be assured that such and such as he holdeth communion withal are baptised, but by humane testimony, instead of the Word of God, as he saith; he must take their own word in their own case, whether it be not humane, I leave it to him to judge.  
And I demand further, whether upon this his ground any can in faith join in fellowship and special communion, or could of old with any they did not see or have not seen circumcised of old, 
Ephes. 44. 9  or Baptised now in this dispensation of the Gospel; for suppose they were Baptised in Holland or in some part of this Kingdom, nay in this City, and I not see it done, where am I then? by his ground, I must believe the bare word of man in stead of the Word of God in a matter alike fundamental according to his account.  
Fourthly, in matter of fact, I judge Faith of such a nature as we have now in hand, is to go upon humane testimony (if 1 S. will have it so called) and that such testimony is of divine authority and every way satisfactory to be rested in; for at the mouth of two or three witnesses every truth stands ratified. In matter of fact, I 
Matth. 18. 16.  make it appear thus:  
That such a people are Christ's Church; a Church being a fundamental thing, men's witnesses must carry it and give satisfaction, especially in regard of the first beginning of a Church, which some much stand upon.  
Again, that such a person is the lawful Minister of Christ and his Church lawfully chosen and ordained, what way is there of satisfaction but the word of man to any but only to those that were at the acting of it?  
Excommunication is an ordinance alike fundamental with Baptism, it is to be done in faith; the practic part of it is to be built upon the testimony of men, at the mouth of two or three witnesses; so as here expressly the word, the bare word of man carrieth the same.  
So as I conclude, as this reason is a foolish fancy, so it premiseth wholly upon untruth, and raiseth unprofitable doubts, and hath the same force against other Ordinances of Christ as it hath against Baptism of Infants, that it can by no means reach so high, as to hinder Infant's Baptism, all which I leave to the judgement of the Reader.  
Reason 7 To baptise Infants, makes the Ordinance of God a lying sign, because none of those things can be expected in an Infant, which the said Ordinance holds forth or signifieth in the administration of it; which is the party's regeneration, and spiritual new birth, a dying and burial with Christ, in respect of sin, and rising with him in a new life to God, and a confirmation of faith in the death and resurrection of Christ, and free remission of sins by the same, as Rom. 6. 3, 4. none of all which can be expected in an Infant.  
Answ. This is a lying accusation, of a malignant spirit, against a holy practice of an Ordinance of Gods own appointment, for might not any one as truly have said thus of Circumcision of Infants of old, aswell as of the Baptism of Infants now; for what could be expected of an Infant then, that cannot be now. Did not Circumcision call for, and lead unto then, as much as Baptism doth now? did not Circumcision call for Circumcision of heart? Circumcision 
Rom. 2. 29.  being, as the Apostle speaketh of the heart, not of the letter, the praise whereof is of God, not of men, did it not also call for regeneration, and newness of life? were not the Infants of it spiritual above the reach of the creature, especially children, yet it was then no lying sign, as I. S. in the case of Baptism lyingly affirmeth?  
Secondly, I say, our Lord was baptised, and this Ordinance was no lying sign, as it was acted on him; yet those things were not in him, nor could be, which I. S. saith, the Ordinance holdeth forth or signifieth, namely, Regeneration, a spiritual new life, dying to sin, burying with Christ, rising with him in newness of life, confirmation of faith, and free remission of sins by the same.  
What will J. S. say now, will he say it was a living sign, or will he confess his lying accusation, to be, as indeed it is, lying and false, for none of those things which he is pleased to set down, as held forth in Baptism, or else it is a lying sign, could be expected, much less be, in Christ: And yet he fulfilled righteousness, in being 
D. Sclater  baptised, as is righteousness fulfilled in Infant's Baptism, even as it was in their Circumcision of old.  
For we may know, that there are other ends in Baptism, as there was in Circumcision of old, besides those specified by J. S. as namely, the subjecting the creature, and dedicating of him to God outwardly in a way of service. The marking of him for God by such a Character. The differencing of him from the rest of the World, and instructing in inward sanctification by the outward washing.  
And here it may be observed, that at length J. S. quoteth a Scripture or two, but to little purpose surely; it is about dipping, for that is new, and pleaseth him; and so in his seventh Reason at length he cometh out with it. So he concludeth, None of all which can be expected in an Infant: And why not, but only because he saith so; but his words are no Oracles: for those, or some of those may be found in Infants, notwithstanding what he saith. God that works those in an elder, can work them in a Infant, he hath done it as in the case of Jeremy, John Baptist, he hath promised to do it, Deut. 30. 6. And all God's promises are yea & Amen in Christ, 1 Cor. 1. 10. Which when J. S. hath considered of, he may repent of his error and lying accusation, as indeed he hath great cause for to do.  
I suppose the indifferent Reader will be able to see how false and unworthy an accusation this is, which makes Christ himself an unlawful subject, and Baptism a lying sign to him; if J. S. his accusation were true, in as much as those things could not be expected, or be at all in Christ, which he specifies as necessary, or else it is so.  
Reason 8 Because the subject of Baptism is to be passive; but a Infant is no way passive, as that Ordinance requires, I mean a passive subject in a threefold way. First, a thing uncapable, and so is a stone. Secondly, a thing forced, and thus is a Infant that opposeth it Baptism what it can, so far is it from being passive in the same. Thirdly, a thing is passive by a subjecting power producing the same in the subject, by bringing of it into a free and voluntary subjection, and thus is the true subject of Baptism, none can be capable to receive grace but by grace, because it consists of self-denial.  
Answ. First, it is marvellous to see how contrary and different, these men are in their Tenants. A. R. in his Treatise of Childish Baptism, maketh Children to be uncapable Subjects, because they are mere passive, as he is pleased to say: whereas the right subjects of Baptism (he says) ought to be more than passive: J. S. he maketh them uncapable, because they are not passive at all; as contrary as these men are one to another, even so contrary is their opinion to the truth. Namely, their denying Baptism to Infants: as untrue also is that which he further addeth, that an Infant is no way passive, as that Ordinance requires. What that Ordinance requires in a passive way, that is not, or cannot be in an Infant in a passive way; sure J. S. cannot show. Infants were passive in Circumcision of old, so were persons of years; and there was no real difference in passiveness, or being patients in that Ordinance of Circumcision, as there is none now in Baptism, betwixt Infants and men of years, though J. S. would by a foolish distinction of the divers kinds of passiveness, seek to make it appear otherwise. He first speaketh of a stones being passive, but this he saith is uncapable; of what is it uncapable? not of total dipping, no not in a passive way. J. S. may please to remember, what is written of such like subjects, namely, The baptising of cups and pots, etc. which sure he 
Mark. 7. 4.  forgot, else he would not have distinguished so; Secondly for an Infant, which he saith opposeth its Baptism what it can; I say it opposeth its Baptism no more than it did in Circumcision of old. But how knoweth he they oppose their Baptism, because happily they shrine and cry; a weighty reason sure: did not Infants, nay, did not persons of years in Circumcision do the like: yea more, do not persons of years shrink and show an unwillingness to be totally dipped in J. S. his way.  
Thirdly, For passiveness by a subjecting power, bringing a thing to a free and voluntary subjection; which is, as he saith, the true subject: It may be observed how he rubbeth upon the old sore, there is something in Infants wanting, some Faith, some Repentance, some Freeness, some willingness of submission, which he is pleased to make passive qualifications, with little reason surely: for any man may see what the disease is, they bring nothing to Christ, therefore they must have no acceptance of him, nor grace from him. Indeed it is works and not grace that here lets: For certainly Infants are as capable of grace, and grace as free to them, as to persons of years. As both old and young are mere passive, in regard of inward grace, and God giveth freely; so both are also alike passive, in regard of outward grace, to wit, that of the 
* Gen. 17.  Covenant, and this in question in particular, namely Baptism, the Seal of it: even as in Circumcision of old. But he hath a kind of reason, although no Scripture, to prove either his distinction, or that children are not passive; and that is, That none can be capable to receive grace but by grace, because it consists of self-denial. Truly, this had need of some explaining, surely our being sinners and miserable, maketh us meet subjects for mercy: I reckon, that there is nothing in us, (as of our own) of grace, that can make us capable. I suppose he holdeth not with the Papists foreseen works or any preparatives that maketh persons capable of grace. If he mean thus, that none can be capable of the grace of Baptism, in an orderly way, but by being within the grace of the Covenant first, I should agree with him, and do think, that nothing can be more clear, but that Infants, being within the Covenant, and interessed in the grace of God that way, they are capable of further grace, namely, to be sealed with the Seal thereof, Baptism. But what he meaneth I I know not, because he saith It consists of self-denial; If he be able to apply it to the purpose now in hand, I shall be willing to acknowledge my want of judgement, for to me it is, as if he had spoke of a man in the Moon: and how far this eight reason is from effecting any thing against the lawfulness of Infant's Baptism, I leave it to the Reader to judge.  
Reason 9 This Doctrine of Infant's Baptism opposeth directly the express Word of God, by teaching that Infants are in the Covenant of Grace; being borne of believing parents, and so a holy seed, by virtue of which they have right to Baptism, as a privilege of grace. Against which the holy Ghost affirms, that all are conceived in sin, and brought forth in iniquity, and so by nature the children of wrath, and under the curse, and except they be horn again, they cannoe see the Kingdom of God, Psal. 51. 5. etc. Here man saith, that Infants are clear and holy from the womb, and so are subjects of grace: But God saith, all Infants, as well one as other, are first in sin, and unholy, and subjects of wrath, until the second birth makes the difference, John 3.  
Answ. At the length I S. hath attained to the full number of his Reasons, which are far more by number then by weight, and surely this last is not in the least behind the other for shallowness; for either he was very ignorant of what he set down, or else perverseness of spirit carried him headlong to the multiplying of words without council against the truth. For,  
First, I would ask of I. S. whether Isaac and Jacob, and the Infants of Israel, were not in the Covenant of Grace? whether he and they were not a holy seed? by virtue of which they had right to Circumcision, and privilege of Grace, Rom. 2. 29. That the Covenant to Abraham was a Covenant of Grace, I suppose he denyeth not; that Circumcision was a privilege of Grace, the Seal of that Covenant the Apostle testifieth in the case of Abraham, He received it as the Seal of the righteousness of faith, Rom. 4. 11.  
Secondly, I would know whether Isaac, the particular Son of Promise, 
Heb. 11. 9  with Jacob fellow-heire, were not borne in sin? and whether he or they in Infancy were under wrath; so as he could not be in the Covenant of Grace.  
Thirdly, I would ask him, whether children, being out of the Covenant of Grace, and born in sin, and so under wrath. according to his sense, can possibly be converted, so as to see heaven, if they 
John 3. Rom. 10. 15.  die in Infancy, seeing by outward means they cannot come to believe, till they be able to hear, and may not be judged within the Covenant nor baptised, till they manifest faith: sure according to his opinion, to our notion they are all debarred Heaven at a blow.  
But truly, as the opinion is, so is the consequences that attend it, erroneous and false: but in as much as this stone is much stumbled at by some of that way, I shall endeavour to remove it, in showing, that the Doctrine of Infant's Baptism agreeth fully with the Word of God. The Infants of the faithful being within the Covenant of grace externally, Gen. 17. 7. That this Covenant is to a thousand Generations, Psal. 105. 8. That God is not the God of the Jews only, but of the Gentiles, Rom. 4. 29. That the Gentiles are fellow heirs of the same body, and partakers of the promise in Christ, Eph. 3. 6. That there is no 
Rom. 10. 12.  difference, but that he that is Lord of all, is rich to all, Rom. 10. 12. His grace and mercy being not lessened, but enlarged, All his promises of grace being to the Gentiles, yea and amen in Christ, 2 Cor. 1. 24. 
Act. 15. 18.   
Touching inward Sanctity, and inward right in the Covenant, as it is God's work and interessing of whom it pleaseth him, so it is only known to him, To whom all his works are known from the 
Mar. 22. 14.  foundation of the World; A thing not within our Sphere; we being to meddle with things revealed, and to proceed according to that.  
Secondly, this Covenant of grace externally, of which we treat; it is extended more largely then according to J. S. his narrow 
Deu. 29. 29.  minding of it, that seemeth as if he would thrust himself into the room of God, meddling with things secret, and proceeding in his measuring of things that way, making the Covenant of grace externally to be with the invisible Elect, and not with the called in Jesus 
Mat. 22. 14.  Christ, of whom many are called but few chosen; so as he is not able I am sure as infallible to show one person of that Covenant) whereas it is and may be known that the Covenant of grace is made with Christ's Kingdom, his Church, and that consists of Virgins, five wise, and five foolish; and Israel though as the sand of the 
Mat. 25. 2.  Sea, yet but a remnant shall be saved. If J. S. would but be pleased to 
Rom. 9 27.  take notice of the outwardness of the Covenant of grace as before, as well as the inwardness of it; the outwardness of the matter to which the Covenant is made, as well as the inwardness of the matter known only to God, he would surely be of another mind, and would not say, it crosseth the Word of God to hold children within the Covenant of Grace, for truly if they be not neither inwardly nor outwardly in the same, they are in a sad case, being wonderful losers by the coming of Christ into the world with grace and 
Joh. 1. 17.  truth, by whom so many gain: But it is evident by what before is declared, that they are in that Covenant, and so are to be sealed as others, with the Seal of it, and that so doing is fully according to the Word of God.  
But, saith he, the Holy Ghost affirms, that all are conceived in sin, children of wrath, and under the curse, so as they cannot see the Kingdom 
Gross ignorance.  of God unless born again.  
To which I say, Isaac and Jacob heirs of the promise were borne in sin, and yet in the Covenant of grace, so soon and before they were born: J. S. is yet beside the matter and much to seek.  
A little to unfold this matter so hidden to J. S. and those of his way: There is a different consideration to be had of this matter, even as there is of a person of years, who may truly be said to be a Saint and also a sinner in a different sense. So the infants of the faithful may be said to be born in sin and brought forth in iniquity, and so in that consideration under wrath; and yet in another minding, born the holy seed of promise, even as Isaac and the Israelites of old, as witnesseth the Apostle, ye are the Children of the promise; and again, the promise is to you and your children; 
Act. 3. 25. Act. 2. 19  let it but be considered in the case of Isaac in particular, who was in a special manner the child of promise, yet he was born in sin, etc. Let J. S. and those of his way use their wit and reason; in stead of faith, to find out this matter some other way, and they shall but tyre themselves in vain: It will appear a truth fully held forth in the holy Scriptures, that though all men since their fall in Adam (Christ the new or second Adam excepted) have been, and are born in sin, and so under wrath that way; yet a number have obtained such free grace, as that (though in another consideration) they are and have been by generation the seed of promise, holy, and such as God hath and doth own for his children, even as he did Isaac and the seed of Israel of old, and the seed of the believing Gentiles, who are under mercy and grace by promise, as they are under sin and wrath the other way: And were and are high in the account of God, what ever mean account J. S. hath of them; of all which, and who, and what to believe, let the upright heart to God judge, as J. S. in the end of his Reason setteth down, thinking belike he had said something that had concluded all.  
But alas, how fare these weak and inconsiderate reasons are from effecting what the Author of them intendeth, any one that is not of a very childish understanding may be able to discern: for sure men must be childish indeed, that in a matter of such weight and concernment as is their outward Christianity, and relation to Christ that way, shall by such reasons be so swayed, as to renounce and reject the same.   

CHAP. II. Containing a discovery of the vain pretence of J. S. of finding Baptism now lost and fallen out of the world, as he holdeth, in the holy Scriptures of God.  
I. S. At the end of pag. 37. saith, That the substance of his former discourse had been about the subjects of Baptism, in which (if any please to believe his own witness in his own cause) he hath disproved the Baptism of two sorts of persons; First, of believers infants; Secondly, the Baptism in the defection of Antichrist, being Baptism in infancy also: So as like a workman indeed he hath overthrown the outward Christianity, and relation to Christ that way, privileges of grace, and Saintship, and what not; all which are of much concernment every manner of way, unto men; and that of all persons in the world, only those few; so of late baptised by total dipping: Is not this Goliath like, and can any marvel that we poor Israelites thus stripped and left naked, are offended and complain, being such losers, and turned out of all? Had he any great reason to complain as he doth in his Epistle, and elsewhere in his book again and again, as pag. 40. Some have so wide mouths open against them that wished them ever well: Well indeed, to unchristian them, and to strip them of all relation to Christ externally, quit them of all interest in the Covenant of God, yea making them as without God in the world, so casting them out, that 
Ephes. 2. 12. 1 Sam. 26. 19  they may go and serve other gods: And can he think much that they complain of wrong: What have they more? He saith he will leave them to God, to whom they must be accountable for all their hard words: But what are those hard words; surely such as these, that they say their way and course is erroneous, a new invention, having evil consequences attending of it; that they are light and mutable in their courses, and very censorious; and is all this so great a matter and hard to be born: Are not his words, or those of his way fare more easy, that condemns all the people and servants of Jesus Christ in the world for unbaptized; the course and way of all Churches, reform or separate, as Idolatrous and not of God, only those of his way excepted; though the said persons or Churches be endued with never so lively graces, and walk never so sincerely and uprightly with good conscience in the way God hath made known to them: But, saith he, I leave them to God, to whom they shall give account for all their hard words: Surely he forgetteth, and doth not think of the hard censures and grievous condemnations, that he, and those of his way give and lay upon all that follow not their erroneous way and course.  
In way of further complaint, he saith, Men do as the Tyrants did of old: And old story indeed, and ill applied, but though he be not, he saith certain of the truth of it, he is certain that some are little better minded, that labour to cover the godly with such filth as they vomit out of their self-sick stomaches: To all which I say its more easy to see a moat in another's eye, than a beam in their own; how doth J. S. and those of his way cover the godly, and the Churches of Christ with the filth of their vomit which they cast forth, and yet he wipeth his mouth as innocent, and wonderfully as we see complaineth of others, that have more cause to complain of him, for he can lay heavy burdens and grievous to be born, making men no Christiant, no Churches of Christ, but Synagogues of Satan, of the world, Antichristians, Idolaters, and what not; all which men must bear, though never so innocent: but now the least of these he will not endure to touch with his finger, but he cryeth out bitterly; but as their dealing is unequal in this, even so it is in other things. But now to return and leave this digression.  
In pag. 38. he telleth us, That this falling out so: How is that? That that the Baptism of all persons and Churches in the world (those few of his way excepted) being void and null, an Idol, and none of Christ's. It followeth, saith he, that we are now to seek for the Lords true Baptism. This is sure a wonderful case indeed, that the Baptism of Christ should be thus lost, and fallen out of the world. Now, saith he, in a case so difficult as some would make it, two things in special are to be inquired into: First, How, or where to find it. Secondly, how it may be obtained, being found.  
For the first: If any Ordinance be so deceased and lost, as we do not know where it is afoot in God's way in the world: (a rare case) Baptism is thus lost and deceased in his opinion) so as those that find themselves unbaptised, may be made partakers of it. What are they to do? They are to go to Christ and his Apostles as the godly than did. But I say Christ & his Apostles have left the world, and are in heaven: I but, saith he, That is to the Scriptures, which are the lively Oracles of God. Ans. And so they were when Christ and the Apostles were on the earth. The spirit, saith he, speaking in them to a believer. Answ. They stand in the place of Christ for advice and counsel, and so they did then, for both our Lord and the Apostles sent us to them, and spoke nothing but according to them. But what of this? Truly nothing to the purpose, nor yet that which is added: Namely, That they have ability to furnish a man of faith with all truth, as the Scriptures quoted, compared together, will prove. To which, I say, they do easily and fully prove the same, and there were never any that held the perfection of the Scriptures, that did deny the same: yet is J. S. never the nearer for all his pains in multiplying expressions to make the matter seem something; when indeed it is nothing at all to purpose: For, To the Law and the Testimony we are to go: And in 
Esay 8. 20. 2 Pet. 1, 19  difficult cases, To take heed to the Word, as to a Light that enlighteneth in darkness.  
Now first, I say, the Scripture giveth no light at all concerning such a cessation of the Church and Ordinances: Nay, it is against the light of the Scriptures to believe any such thing, Jesus Christ having said, That hell gates shall not prevail against his Church; and 
Matth. 16. Matth. 28. 20.  having also promised his presence for preservation and continuation for ever.  
Secondly, I say, it is but directively, that the Scriptures do furnish men in all cases; now their direction in this case, it is to the Church, 
2 Tim. 3. 17, 18.  and to the ministry of man, for the enjoying, and being made partakers of the holy Ordinances of God.  
The holy Scriptures of old in a like manner stood in the stead of Moses and the Prophets in a sense: And yet the heathen were to repair to Jerusalem for the Ordinances as they did; and did not act 
Esay 8. 20. 2 Pet. 1. 19 2 Chro. 6. 32.  them themselves with the help of the Law: The Scriptures in a sense stood in the stead of Christ and the Apostles; yet the people must go to John; yea, our Lord himself, that he might fulfil righteousness, 
Matth. 3. 15.  must go to him: Cornelius must send for Peter; Paul must 
Act. 10. 32. Act. 9 10.  have Ananias; and so such as attain the knowledge of the truth, they are to go to the Church and Ministry of man, appointed of God; and so that way to be added to the Church, and made partakers of the holy Ordinances of God: for it is most certain, the 
Act. 2. 47.  Scriptures act nothing, neither can they: they only direct in righteousness, 
2 Tim. 3. 16.  their directions is always as aforesaid, and no otherwise.  
Thirdly, I say, it is not true that the Scriptures are in the stead of the holy Ministry, ordained by God: The Scriptures were not in the stead of the Priests, in case of saul's sacrificing, nor in Vzzia the King his burning incense, to enable them to do as they did: 
1 Sam. 13. 12.  The Scriptures were not in stead of circumcised Jews unto the Heathen to enable them, or make them capable of building the Temple: 
2 Chron. 26. 17, 18.  They were not in stead of John Baptist to our Lord: They were not in stead of Peter to Cornelius and his friends. As it is not in stead of 
Ezra 4. 3. Matth. 3. 15. Acts 10. 32.  Christ, the Apostles, or holy Ministry to an unbaptized person or persons to enable them warrantably to Baptise, and so without Commission to raise this Ordinance a new, so lost and deceased out of the world, according to his opinion.  
The Scriptures which he quoteth, I shall set down, and they are these, 2 Tim. 3. 15. 2 Pet. 1. 19 Rom. 16. 25, etc. Now I appeal to the indifferent Reader whether these Scriptures, all, or any of them, are any other then directive.  
Again, whether their direction, it be not to a precedent Stative Church, and ministry of man, appointed by God, as formerly under Moses and the Prophets; so in this latter dispensation, under Christ and the Apostles, as is before declared.  
Lastly, whether these Scriptures, or any of these, or all of these, compared together, do give direction to a person unbaptised himself to baptise either himself or others: and whether they do not rather testify against such usurpation of God's holy things, and running before they be sent, in thus doing a thing that never came into 
Jerem. 23. 21.  the mind of God, much less did he require it at their hands: 
Jerem. 32. 35.   
J. S. proceedeth, and saith, By all which we see, that all things are contained in the Scriptures.  
Answ. Yea, in the way of direction, and therefore such practices as are without the direction of the Scripture, are unwarrantable, such as is their casting away as Null their present Baptism, because of some corruptions that did attend it; and beginning it again with greater corruptions; namely, by an unbaptized person, without Commission, acting of it.  
Here he addeth many good words in commendation of the Scriptures; As containing all things concerning faith and obedience, as being the Prophetical mouth of Christ, to which all must repair unto; and all Doctrines and practices must be tried by; and an Angel from heaven is not to be believed, but as they speak according to it. All which is directive, as I said before: And what then? Truly nothing: Though he go over the same matter again, with some different expressions: and some of them improper; carrying a show of favouring his conceit, and what he would have: As where he saith, The Scriptures is the only place: How is this proper, or true, unless he mean in a directive way? Where any Ordinance of God, in case aforesaid, that is, of cessation, and loss of being again, when, or wheresoever any of these (meaning) Ordinances of God, cannot be found: (What then?) We are, saith he, to go to the Scriptures directly, and recover the same again, as Cant. 1. 7. Esay 8. 19, 20.  
Answ. All this is but the same over again, we are to go to the Scripture for direction, (if the case were so) the Scripture directing, and not acting, as Esay 8. 19, 20. the Church acting according to that direction, and therefore persons are sent thither, according to that Cant. 1. 7. alleged, which is according to the direction of Scripture, which always sendeth men to the Church in such cases: so as in this copiousness, he doth but puzzle his Reader to make him believe what he is never able to prove.  
He proceedeth, saying: Thus having found out the place or subject, (very improper expressions) Is not the Scripture the ground and foundation of all Ordinances in a directive way? Did ever any Christian question it, much less deny it? That he should with often going over the same, and with such improper expressions, and far fetches seek to make it appear as a discovery of truth not known, or at least not assented unto: sure he had some further drift in it then ordinary.  
In the next place he saith; It is to be known how they that want it may come orderly by it; For, saith he, though God hath joined his Word and Ordinances together, yet he hath enjoined an orderly way for his people to come to enjoy them.  
Answ. I would fain know to what end all the former matter serveth, if so be God require an orderly way: for, as I said before, there is none that deny the Scriptures, in a directive way, to be the ground and foundation of all Ordinances. J. S. might have spared his labour, for it was to as much purpose as for a man to prove there is a Sun in the firmament; which all grant.  
In this it had been far better for him to have made full discovery, how they that (in such a case) want it, may come orderly by it; in as much as God requireth this. And surely, if God require an orderly way, J. S. and others of his way, will yet remain in a great strait; and will find it a matter more easy to cast away an Ordinance (as they have done their Baptism) for the disorder and corruption that did attend it then in an orderly way to obtain the same again: for certainly, the Scriptures, according to what before is set forth, direct to a precedent Church, and Ministry of man, ordained of God, and sent as John was: And if not a Christ, a Moses, or Elias, or Prophet from heaven, the blind Jews could 
John 1. 25.  see it to be unlawful for any other.  
How will he do now? He is but where he was, an orderly way according to God is necessary; there being no gathered Church to be found remaining, no, not baptised persons to be found, nor any Prophets sent from God, according as his judgement is: What will he do, or what course will he prescribe? He conceiveth this orderly way is only in and by the Church (I had thought he would have rather said in the Scriptures, for to me it seemeth he hath unsaid all he said before) wherein is the power of Christ, he saith, to set on foot his Ordinances: So, as it seemeth, now it is not in the Scriptures, (as before he endeavoured to make his Reader believe.) But in the Church of God, so as we are not, as he said before, to go directly to the Scriptures, but we are to go to the Church of God. But now this is the case with J. S. and those of his way, there is no Church remaining in the world to be found, how then will he do? to help now at a dead lift, they will make a Church, that they may make Ordinances anew, and be the spouse of Christ whether he will or no, I suppose greater arrogancy cannot be showed in Babylon. But let us see how they will do it, thus saith he, When God is pleased to take a people to himself, and by the power of his truth to unite them to his Son, and so in an orderly body among themselves.  
Answ. Now this supposed orderly gathered Church, pretended (after the manner of the Church of Rome) to be Gods: consisteth of persons unbaptised. Now I would hear mind J. S. of his first Argument against Infant's Baptism; namely, that which hath neither precept nor example in Scripture is unlawful; let him or any of his way show an example of a unbaptized Church, since Baptism was on foot in the World, or any command from God for persons unbaptised to congregate and assume, for so he after speaketh, to become a Church, indeed it may be said presume, for it is without all doubt, great presumption, and a doing that God never spoke to any to do, but the contrary, namely, to repair to the Church before gathered, and by him made partakers of his Ordinances in a right way, there to be added and made partakers of the Ordinances with them.  
J. S. saith further, When it pleased God to take a people to himself, etc.  
Answ. When God is pleased to take a people to himself in such a way, there always was new discoveries of his will, new grants of favour, there were new signs and miracles, there were Prophets and men sent immediately to declare his good pleasure: as appeareth first in the case of Abraham, after in the example of Moses, and that people: and last of all in the case of Christ and the 
Gen: 15. 17, 18. Exod. 19 16. Heb. 2. 4.  Apostles, when not the Jews only, but the Gentiles, were drawn to God, By signs and miracles and divers gifts, he gave confirmation to his pleasure, as of old he had done.  
But alas, here is no such thing attending this supposed gathering of such people to God, for indeed the gathering is of another nature, and answerable to Gods gathering of his people in some other cases more ordinary. As namely, his gathering of them out of captivity of old, when they were in Babylon, or his gathering them out of apostasy and defection, under Jeroboam or the like: figures of this spiritual captivity and apostasy of Babylon now. But as then there were no new beginnings of Ordinances, no new Circumcision; nor any signs or miracles for confirmation of their return and gathering to the Lord: Even so the case being a like, there is no new beginnings of Church and Baptism, which would require as heretofore, such like confirmation. And certainly, if the return and gathering of God's people to himself, were any other then according to those gatherings from captivity and apostasy of old, I say, surely if there were such a new taking of people, and raising of them as is pretended, God would have manifested his pleasure as of old, by signs and miracles, or at least by persons sent from heaven for the business, as John was.  
J. S. further saith, Such a people so gathered and constituted, have right to all the privileges ordained and appointed by God for their mutual comfort and well-being.  
Answ. Just as Cornelius and his friends had, or might have had, in the like case, without Peter, whose Ministry they must make use of, he being authorized of God to the work, and they directed of God to him, and not bidden to do it themselves.  
Now this he pretendeth to prove from certain Scriptures, as Rom. 8. 17. 1 Cor. 21. 22, 23. Answ. For that in the Romans it is marvellous he should think that to be a proof: I say first, that was spoken of the Church of the Romans, that were gathered by Christ, and washed with his washing in an orderly way, by such as were not only baptised, but had authority to baptise others, they were God's Church indeed, of whom glorious things are spoken. But what is this to persons unbaptised, pretending to be a Church, and to be gathered by God, when they cannot show the least warrant for it.  
Again, it speaketh of heirs, now may heirs, because heirs, and so every heir of Christ, act Ordinances of so high a nature, because heirs; sure they, as obedient children must serve God in an orderly way, and not in such a confused course, as that upon the pretence of heirship, young as well as old, yea, women also might do it, for They are all one in Christ. Nay, which is more, though unbaptised, and so the Eunuch, or Cornelius and his friends, needed 
Gal. 3. 28.  not Philip or Peter, but might have done it themselves. I suppose this Scripture, any one that hath but common reason in him, will see it is to no purpose at all.  
But that other happily may stand him in stead, and the scope of that is to declare the interest of Christ's Church to all things, according to the Scriptures direction, always provided. And what then? then people may make themselves the Church of Christ, or pretend at least so to be: and then they are so interessed forthwith in all things. The Romish Church can make as large claim as they in this matter, and speak as much for themselves: surely, if persons in earthly cases could do the like, there would not be a few found in such claims and pretences, but they would by wise men, be thought sitter for Bedlam then any place else. In further answer, I say, that was spoken of the Church of Corinth, and so is true of all other Churches, gathered and instated by Christ in an orderly way, by such means and instruments as had authority from him. But what is this to persons that want this jnstating, by such instruments in such a way: Truly no more than it could for those that called themselves Jew's and were not, or then it would have availed 
Rev. 3. 9  the Heathen of old, to have enjoyed the privileges with the Jews in Gods holy things, in particular, of building the Temple, to whom it was told, it was not for them to build, etc. It cannot be imagined, that such large privileges should, according to due order, 
Esr. 4. 3.  appertain to such; the Scripture being wholly silent concerning their right: It is but usurpation for such to challenge such a condition, of being called to be Christ's Church, as it was in them that said, they were Apostles, and were not, as these in like kind are 
Rev. 2. 2.  not the Churches of Christ, rightly gathered and constituted, whatever they pretend to be; I suppose it will also appear to the Reader, that this Scripture serveth nothing at all to purpose in the matter in hand.  
But J. S. supposing to have made some proof in the aforesaid matter, saith, that by virtue of this union they have with their head Christ, the body thus jointly considered, hath the power and authority of Christ within themselves, to choose or make use of any one or more of her members, as occasioa offers, to administer Baptism upon the whole body, and so upon themselves in the first place as a part of the same: This is the great conclusion drawn from the former premises; but it is only said; for alas, that before is no proof at all of the matter; what precept or example is there in the Scripture for the warrant of this, certainly none at all, for this is unwritten tradition; and I dare say, as pure popery as any can be: for men thus to feign cases, and then to give authority in such cases as the holy Scripture is altogether silent in.  
But saith he further, if any please to take his word for it, such may be as truly said to be sent and authorized by Christ (thus as of old, by Christ in his humane body; even so now in his divine and spiritual body: that is, this unbaptized company pretending to be a Church: Now I marvel whether there be any so simple as to believe such doctrine as this; that a company of unbaptized persons are Christ's divine and spiritual body; and that so, as what they order persons to do in the matter of ordinances in particular of Baptism, though it do not concur with the Scriptures; is as true and real a mission and as full authority as the holy Apostles had that were sent of Christ himself; and beside, that such high terms of divine and spiritual should be proper to this feigned body; and only the term humane, should belong to Christ's person, when he was manifest in the world; it is sure very much; and at least showeth plainly how wonderfully he is conceited of his own Idea.  
This strange doctrine he will prove by a reason thus; Wheresoever a Church doth rise in her true constitution: I ask from whence is this rising, from the bottomless pit: I never heard of Jerusalem, 
Revel. 19 2.  but coming down from heaven: But Babylon, and this little Teret of it, may rise happily from the earth. Again, in her true constitution, I say, it is likely to be a very true constitution without Baptism. There he saith, are her ordinances; Yes, but in an orderly way they must be acted; it is not for Saul to sacrifice: But saith he, there is power also to administer the same: but sure, not without right or lawful instruments, God is the God of Order. But the 
1 Cor. 14. 37.  reason that killeth all dead before it, and concludeth the matter fully, is this, That where a thing is wanting, there must be of necessity a beginning to reduce the thing again into being; this is the conclusion of all. And is not J. S. come to a fair Haven after his sore travel and great hazard. Necessity hath no law. But where is that due order, and orderly way of seeking of God which he before spoke of? Truly it is a sad case, that any by their erroneous judgement and following their own way, should bring themselves into such a snare or strait, and then plead necessity to do that which is not lawful for them, and think necessity will bear them out. Disobedient Saul, by his evil course, had brought himself into a great strait, whereupon he adventured to do that which did 
1 Sam. 13. 12.  not appertain to him to do; but for all he pleaded necessity it would not serve his turn, for he was told by the Prophet from the Lord, That he had done foolishly, and that to obey was better than sacrifice. 
v. 13.   
Thus saith he, I have showed my judgement, that if Baptism be wanting where it is to be had, namely in the holy Scriptures. Secondly, how from thence to be obtained, by Gods calling an unbaptized people into an holy fellowship with Christ, from whom (though unbaptised) they have power to assume as a Church; so the Ordinance of Baptism upon themselves.  
Now courteous Reader, this is the sum of the matter, consider of it, and see if it be not a fair judgement and well grounded, and whether thou canst judge this to be any other then Popish divinity, which the Romanist can say in the like kind for their course; for cannot they say as much for making Christ's real body in the Eucharist, by hoc est corpus meum, as these can say for making his divine and spiritual body, as they call it; for they pretend the Scriptures as these do, they assume to themselves such a state, to be Christ's Church; and to have such power in what they do, even as these do; but truly, as theirs is only pretended, and not real; Even so in like is this, merely feigned and not otherwise.  
But he saith, he will clear up this matter; (Indeed it needs clearing, for it is yet very dark and smoky) this he will do, by showing the manner of the aforesaid Constitution in the causes of it: How will he do it? in pag. 40. by saying over again what he had said again and again before; namely, that the Scriptures, remaining in the place of the Apostles for us to have recourse unto, and serve as the mouth of Christ: Alas this is but a poor clearing, for this is only in a directive way, as before I noted. And what then? The Scriptures being so; truly nothing at all. Yes, saith he, as the Apostles did before the Scriptures were written; To which I say, there were Scriptures before the Apostles, to which the Apostles had an eye and regard, and directed others to do the like: The holy Apostles they acted Ordinances of Religion preaching, breaking bread, and baptising. The Scripture acts nothing, neither can they: surely 
Act. 2. 42.  this is a poor clearing; we will mind the Scriptures he here quoteth, Matth. 28. 20. 2 Pet. 19 20, 21. Rom. 10. 6, 7, 8. In answer, I will not tyre myself and the Reader; certainly no man can imagine any thing more than direction from that full and perfect rule of the Scriptures, as gatherable from those places of Scripture, which as before I said none deny, let him but call to mind what he said of an orderly way which God requireth, and how that is as he conceiveth by the Church; and then let him tell me if he can to what purpose these Scriptures are, or that which followeth; that as the Lords people conferred with the Prophets and Apostles about their great affairs, so have the Lords people now, Moses and the Prophets, Christ and his Apostles in their writings, as Luk. 16. 29. And what then, truly nothing (it is but for direction as before) nor yet that which further followeth in this clearing matter of the constituting causes; which are, saith he, with the spirit of life in them, as effectual as their personal presence, if not more.  
Answ. Stay a while, the matter is sure otherwise, for this effectualness, if it were granted, is but directive. But it is not wholly granted, for that the Apostles were men inspired and sent of God to declare his will, they were a saving means of good to men; and God in his good pleasure, as a double mercy, gave his Word, and sent his Apostles and Prophets; sure I take it, it must needs follow, that if the Scriptures were as effectual without the Apostles (and rather more) then with them; then God gave the Apostles in vain, and the Churches were great losers by their personal presence; but the truth is otherwise, as is most manifest: The Scripture (with the Spirit of life in them) act nothing, but only direct and furnish men how to act according to the will of God, in an orderly way, according to what he holdeth.  
For proof of what before he affirmed of the effectualness of the Scripture, he quoteth, Joh. 6. 62. 2 Pet. 1. 18, 19 Revel. 11. 3, 5, 11.  
Answ. That in John, speaketh of Christ ascending where he was before, how this should prove any thing is beyond my thoughts, I will say nothing, but leave the Reader to judge of it. That place of Peter is of the sure direction of the Word in dark, and our doing well to take heed to it. That in the Revelation is of the two witnesses; a thing too mysterious to be a proof in this case.  
I suppose J. S. will not hold himself to be one of those witnesses, nor he, with others of his way, to be both those witnesses there spoken of. I will say no more but leave the Reader to judge whether these Scriptures do prove that the holy Scriptures with the Spirit of life in them (as he is pleased to say) are in stead of the Apostles personally sent of God with power to act ordinances; or whether they in the case of the Ordinances dispensing in an orderly way, are as much or more effectual than the Apostles personally that were sent of Christ for that end, who did not send the Scriptures, as in the case of the Eunuch, but Philip; and in the case of Cornelius, Peter, as in those and the like instances may be seen.  
He proceedeth, and in full concluding of this matter, saith, and thus all succession (what phrase have we here) from the beginning came to Christ. (Of what speaks he now, of Ordinances?) I had thought all Ordinances had ever proceeded from him, he being ever the Lord of the Church, and sure he meaneth the Ordinances; namely, those ordained of old under Abraham, and Moses, and the Prophets; these lasted & continued to the coming of Christ into the world, the substance indeed of those shadows; so his sense may be good. From Christ, he saith, to the Apostles; from the Apostles to the Scriptures: This is pure nonsense, if I mistake not; and beside, I ask him where is that orderly way he told us of, and how is the case now according to 1 Cor. 3. by him alleged for the Authority of an unbaptized Church; Doth he not by this descent seclude them from all, rather than inright them to any such authority; happily he will say, Oh from the Scriptures to us; very good: But first, how from Christ to the Apostles? Did Christ our Lord prefer the Apostles before his beloved Spouse for whom he gave himself? I always took the Apostles as the servants of the Church for Christ's sake. Secondly, did the Ordinances 
2 Cor. 4. 5.  proceed from Christ to the persons of the Apostles; or to their office as Apostles; So as when they in regard either of person or office left the world, it descended to the Scripture; certainly, the right and interest of the Scriptures was the same before the death and cessation of the Apostles as after; and the Scriptures gained no legacy by such friends, unless a sealing to the truth and full authority of their direction: so from the Scriptures to us: a wonderful matter, a very fair Ring, from the Scriptures to the Scriptures, and so to us, just nothing but a show of words without matter.  
Further he saith, That all succession is now spiritual: So it seemeth he holdeth it was carnal before, when it was from Abraham to Moses, from Moses to Christ and the Apostles, and so to the Scriptures; and now it is from the Scriptures to us, it is spiritual; a rare conceit. He saith, it is now according to faith; whether he mean faith of miracles, or what else, is hard to say; but it mattereth not much, for he is beside the Scriptures, and walking in some other field. It followeth not, saith he, the personal succession of any, but only the Word of God.  
Answ. Sure J. S. speaketh in a strange tongue, he is never able to make out his sense, that succession follows the Word, the Word being , and that which abideth for ever, and hath no place for succession, though he thus speaketh he know not what. And the word of God, he saith, giveth being to all Order and Ordinances: It doth give being of direction and warrant, declaring what is good and lawful, and what not: It acts nothing: God requireth an orderly way, and that is by the Church.  
Now, courteous Reader, do but seriously consider how J. S. hath cleared the way of raising and beginning again Baptism lost and fallen out of the world, as he believeth: and how he hath removed the difficulties in the way, which he ealleth clouds that darken the sky: See if thou do not yet find it very dark and cloudy as ever, and never the clearer for all the labour and pains he hath taken; and whether his labour and travel herein hath been to any more purpose than the washing of the Blackmoore.  
For first of all: Whereas he referreth thee to the Scriptures, as the Successors of the Apostles in his opinion: First, Thou seest the Scriptures were before the Apostles, and the Apostles themselves were guided by them.  
Secondly, That the Scriptures are only directive, and act nothing at all, neither can they: and beside, they do not direct to any such course as the constituting an unbaptized Church, or authorising unbaptised persons to baptise.  
Thirdly, Thou seest what great cause of doubt and question there is, according to his opinion, whether these Scriptures be the Scriptures of God, and whether they have not lost their being, having been so long in Babylon, and in the hands of Antichristians; especially if it be minded that they were by Antichristians translated into our native Tongue: their translating must needs make them Antichristian, and to be rejected as false, as well as their Baptism. Where will J. S. be then (do thou but think) for the raising a new his Church and Baptism, which I would wish him and those of his way to consider of well.  
But then in the second place; God being to be sought as he holdeth in an orderly way, according to what he hath declared as his judgement, and this orderly way being by the Church rightly gathered and constituted, to whom Christ hath committed the power.  
Consider, good Reader, in the first place, that if the Scriptures be not Antichristian, (as his opinion enforceth) that they have in them no ground or warrant by any example or precept for such an unbaptized Church, neither can such a supposed Church be orderly constituted, or the proceed thereof orderly, the Scripture being wholly silent concerning any such thing: This conceit of so making Christ's Church, and so making Baptism; being a mere Popish Tenent, and the proceed therein like unto theirs in such like cases: So as this Ordinance of Christ's Baptism, being, according to his opinion, destroyed in Babylon, and there being no orderly Church of Christ in earth to be found, as he holdeth: nor no Christ, Moses, Eliah, or Prophet from heaven appearing: nor yet any that by Signs and Miracles can prove the truth of their Mission; I conceive it necessarily followeth, and I willingly leave all men free to judge of it. That J. S. is yet, for all his clearing, in a great strait, and under a dark cloud; out of, and from under which, he will not be able to get, unless he do as Saul did, make bold to do that which is unwarrantable; and so running before he be sent, and doing that which God never spoke any word about; the which he shall do well to take further knowledge of.   

CHAP. III. Containing a defence of the judgement of such as hold that Baptism hath continued God's Ordinance in the Apostasy of Antichrist, notwithstanding the corruptions attending of it; in way of Answer to the Cavils and Exceptions of J. S. against the same.  
BEfore that J. S. could finish the matter in the former Chapter, and clear it as he pretended to do, he found some Tenants in his way, as opposite to that pretended truth (but indeed error) which he endeavoured to maintain; the which he setteth down thus: First, such as stand for a personal succession: Again thus; A word or two to such as hold succession in the defection of Antichrist: Again, Such as hold Baptism by personal succession, as in pag. 39 may be seen.  
To which I answer: First, That sure J. S. mistaketh himself, being never able to make it appear, that any person, or persons, do so hold. So I might let him alone to contest with his own fancy.  
But in as much as he may happily have met with some that hold the continuation of Baptism, as God's Ordinance in that defection; not in way of succession, that being no way proper to an Ordinance; returning home unto himself his phrase of succession, as darkening the truth: I shall apply myself to take knowledge of his scope and purpose.  
First, he saith, Such have received a sufficient Answer that hold so, in what he had writ before.  
To which I answer: Indeed, if he might be his own Judge in his own cause, it might be so: It were much better that others should have said so, and praised him, than he thus his own work: But what was it that he had proved before in his conceit? That all the world are unbaptised, only he, and those of his way: Is he not a mighty Champion, thus to nullify and make void the Christianity of all Christians in the world? It is more than Turks could ever do by all the force and power they had.  
He hath yet a word or two more to say to such as hold contrary (to his erroneous conclusion) that Baptism hath continued, and doth continue God's Ordinance, etc.  
And first, he gins by way of Querie, thus: If they mean by defection, the outward form of worship, and Government Ecclesiastical, as he thinketh they do.  
Answ. Is defection of so hard and doubtful sense with J. S. as he should query thus, and go by thinking: he may know that defection or defilement, pollution or corruption, are of one nature, and that there is a real difference betwixt corruption, and the thing corrupted; between defilement, and the thing defiled; betwixt Religion, and Gods Ordinances; and men's additions to, and detractions from the same: They mean that the Ordinances, and in particular, Baptism hath continued from the Apostles downward, thorough all the apostasy and defilements that have attended Religion and it to this day; Just as Circumeision of old did continue God's Ordinance in the apostasy and defilements of the ten Tribes under Jeroboam: and likewise in the time of Manasses in Judah: This is their meaning, and what then? Then, saith he, all the power and authority that ever carried out any Administration or constituted Ordinance depends on the same: (Just as Circumcision depended on the Calves in Jeroboams apostasy) And if so, saith he, than the Ordainer, and Ordinance ordained, are both of one nature: (Yea, they are both of one nature; God is the Author, he is spiritual; and Baptism, the thing ordained, so also.) If one be, saith he, Antichristian, the other is also Antichristian: Strong lines without proof. What if neither be Antichristian, neither the Author nor Ordinace, where is J. S. then? For truly his collective reason is as much, as if a person opposing Circumcision, as none of God's Ordinance, because of the Idolatry of the Jews, should have reasoned thus: If the Israelites be Idolaters, and the Calf's Idols, and no gods; and the Priests Priests to them that are no gods, then is Circumcision 
2 Chro. 13. 9  of the same nature also as are the Calves, & Priests, and Jeroboams whole way of Dan and Bethel. And for proof, should say as J. S. doth, that it was the power of Jeroboams way, or of his Calves that carried on the whole form of worship, and proceed: and the power, and Ordainer, and the Ordinance ordained, must needs be of one stamp; if one so, then so the other: Had not such a way of arguing overthrown Circumcision then, aswell as Baptism now: Let J. S. be Judge himself, and let him tell me whether he would not have distinguished in the case.  
Again, I will propose another instance in the way of his Argument: Thus the Author and thing ordained or made, must be of one and the same nature; if one be Antichristian, the other also, for so he hath proved, be saith. But the Authors, namely, those that translated the Scripture, were according to his opinion, Antichristians, and there be additions and detractions, as in some translations there are: Now the thing made or translated, must be of the same nature with the Translators that were the Authors, and if it were added for proof, it was the power of their Antichristian spirits that carried on the whole work and proceed thereof; and so conclude as before, both are one and the same. If J. S. now would in this stand to his own ground, where would he be, he would be as far to seek for new Scriptures, as they are for Church; and Ordinances, that hold there neither is nor yet can be any in the World; or as he himself was not long since for Baptism.  
But truly it is much to be pitied, to see such ignorance in men professing knowledge, that they cannot distinguish betwixt God's 
Ezek. 4. 4.  posts and men's, when men's are set by Gods. That they cannot distinguish between God's Ordinances and men's inventions and additions; that they cannot put difference betwixt the Ark and Dagon, or his Temple, in which he being placed fell before the Ark: I would 
1. Sam. 5. 4.  feign know of J. S. when Baptism, that was Christ's, seized, and lost its being, and Antichrists Baptism came in the room of it, sure he cannot tell.  
But I must here tell J. S. that the power of Jesus Christ supports and carries his Ordinances in the midst of the deepest defections that Satan ever hath or could bring upon the same, wherein his glorious power doth appear; although J. S. would spoil him of it, by feigning that he is overcome, & his Church & Ordinances destroyed God's people of old remained his people; his Church, his Church; his Ordinances, his Ordinances; as particularly Circumcision in the midst of the greatest defilements that ever attended that dispensation. In like manner it is so now, under all the defilements of Antichrist, in particular, Baptism, of which is our question; as also the Church: our Lord Christ his power being no way lessened for the upholding of it, nor his faithfulness failed for the preservation thereof, according to his promise; who hath said, The gates 
Mat. 16.  of hell shall not prevail against it: It were good for J. S. to study well that place 2 Thes. 2. 4. Where Antichrist is foretold, sitting in the Temple or Church of God; and if he would please but to take notice, that there is difference between God's Temple, in which he sitteth, and him sitting there; as there was betwixt the Ark in the Temple of Dagon, in which the Ark was, he happily would change his thoughts, and be of another mind, and so come to have more respective thoughts of the power and faithfulness of Jesus Christ, then now he seemeth to have. Truly I suppose these foolish inferences of J. S. will appear to be but mere fantasies, without any ground, tending only to deceive the simple; for any indifferent Reader will be able to distinguish betwixt Religion and corruption, betwixt Ordinances and the evils, (by way of addition or detraction) that attends them; Circumcision was of God, and it was the hand and power of God that carried it forth in those evil times. The Idols, Calves, and Jeroboams Priests, and his whole way as they were of, and from another, so another hand and power carried them along. Even as in like manner Baptism and other like things being of God, are preserved and carried by a hand and power of God; whereas that universal Church, general Ministry and government, with those other forms of Church's Provincial, Diocesan, and proportional Ministry and Government, Ceremonies, with additions and detractions innumerable, as they are from another fountain, so they are carried in another channel, and by another power abetted and set on: namely, by the power of the man of sin, the author and inventor of them. So far shall suffice in this.  
But saith J. S. praising of himself, He hath proved, that if one be Antichristian, the other is Antichristian: By what Scripture he hath proved it none can tell. And, saith he, To dream of any approved Church by the Word of God, under the defection, and yet a part of the same, is for a man to look for a man in the Moon; and to suppose a Church to consist in such matter as is destructive to itself; and therein to hold a successisn of truth is against the light of nature, and a keeping of the Pope upon the Throne of Christ whether he will or no.  
Answ. Is not this high Divinity which I. S. belcheth out of his self-sick stomach against the people and truth of God: Is it not a sore and heavy charge? but it is well, it is but said, and not proved. Now lest any, as simple as he that said it, should believe it because it is said, and that by a person venerable in their way, I shall take the pains to examine the respective charges as they are laid down. First, saith he, To dream of an approved Church by the Word of God.  
A. Sure he dreamt himself in what he fathered thus upon his opposites, who do not hold an approved Church in such a sense as J. S. seemeth to intent, that is, a pure and spotless Church: But they hold according to the Scripture, a Church to be really true, and Gods, though corrupt and greatly defiled. I suppose he will not question but that Judah, (not to speak of Israel) was the Church of God in Manasses time, and in other times when Idolatry greatly prevailed, yet not approved as pure and spotless, but reproved for corruption and defilement; yea, and visited with the rods of men 
Psal. 89. 3 2.  because of the same, that she might be reform, so as to be again approved of her head and husband, that all this time of her backsliding did not renounce her. In short, she was approved to be, but not approved as pure in that her being. And surely so is the case of the Church where Antichrist sits as God, 2 Thes. 2. 4. The matter so considered, let J. S. when he awaketh make the most he can of it.  
The second part of the dream is this, that this is a part of the same, I suppose he meaneth corrupt, as the whole is. To which I answer, though it be corrupt, yet it is no part of the corruption, there being difference, as before, betwixt a thing and the corruption that attends it; the Israelites were a part of the Schism of Jeroboam, The seven thousand were a part of the ten Tribes which went astray. In a divers 
1 King. 19 18.  sense persons may be of the Church of God, and members for their parts, and yet in a way of Idolatry, and in that way none 
1 Cor. 12. 27. compared with 1 Cor. 5. 1. 1 Cor. 25. 12.  of Gods, as may be further seen by the case of Manasses, as also of the Priest that went astray, that went along with the Israelites in their Idolatry, sure there is little in this part of the whole.  
But in the third place in his deep charge, he saith, this is to look for a man in the Moon.  
Answ. Just as J. S. did look for the Church and Baptism in the Scriptures: Indeed Eliah thought, as his complaint showeth, that he was left alone, but God told him otherwise: for sure to 
Rom. 11. 3, 4.  mind a Church, as retaining her being, though in a corrupt estate is no looking for a man in a Moon; though he, for want of other matter and better proof, is pleased out of his sick stomach to say so against the truth, and such as stand for it.  
Fourthly, saith he, It is to suppose a Church to consist in such matter as is destructive to itself. Sure J. S. cannot make out this in any rational way, it is but a part of his dream; to hold a Church to consist of matter corrupt and degenerate, as was the Idolatrous Israelites, and as was the lukewarm Laodiceans, is not to hold amiss, is not to hold the matter destructive to the form or being. The faithful City becoming sometime a harlot: Indeed such matter is against 
Esa. 1. 21.  the well being of the Church, but that is not our question: the matter of the Church ought to be holy and pure, but it is often otherwise.  
Fifthly, he saith, to hold a continuedness of the Churches being, (though not of her well being) his term is here succession of truth, but he meaneth sure, the Churches being: It is against the light of nature.  
Answ. A marvellous high ascent and sore charge, but it is but rashly spoken, as one in a dream, that loveth no inferences: But however it is well it is not against the light of the holy Scriptures, J. S. hath left them, and is gone to the light of nature: but how doth the light of nature teach, that a Church and Ordinances, of which is our question, cannot continue their being, if corrupt or greatly corrupted. Truly no more than in the case of Job, that he should not, or could not be a man, because corrupt, Job 2. 7. The folly and weakness of this fifth part of the dream, I suppose any weak judgement will be able to see, and I will say no more. In the sixth place to bring up the rear, he addeth a charge of a foul nature: That to hold a continuance of the Church and Ordinances under the apostasy of Antichrist, Is a keeping of the Pope upon the throne of Christ whether he will or no: But how doth this appear, truly as all the rest, because he says so. I would ask J. S. or any other, if the holding the Israelites of the ten Tribes, to be God's people, and their Circumcision to be God's Ordinances, did thus keep up that apostasy, and the Calves at Dan and Bethel perforce, as in the place of God and his ways. Again, doth J. S. and those of his way, because they hold the continuation of the same Scriptures, and which is more translated by Antichristians in their sense, and so successively from Pope Joan: doth he or they in thus doing, keep the Pope upon the throne of Christ whether he will or no? It concerns him to see to it, and to renounce and cast away those Antichristian Scriptures, as he hath done his Baptism, and so seek new Scriptures too; lest not being true to his own principles, he should become guilty of keeping the Pope upon the Throne of Christ whether he will or no.  
Experience, the School-mistris of fools, hath showed the contrary of this charge in the Reformed Churches, who have almost unthroned the Pope; of whom J. S. and those of his way, as if they had some compassion, have busied themselves in making a little Terret & Throne for him to sit upon and inhabit in; namely, their Babel practise. And certainly their erroneous practice and way doth more help to keep the Pope upon the Throne of Christ, than any other thing that pretends opposition to it, as that course doth, of which a little more hereafter; and for the present I shall only here ask J. S. whether he do think the Pope doth sit upon the Throne of Christ yea or no; if he say yea, then sure he sitteth in the Temple of God in the Church, for Christ's Throne is there.  
He proceedeth after that great charge, thus: But to lay the chain of succession of truth this way, namely through the Popedom of Rome, as all such must do that hold a personal succession of a Church & Ordinances to consist in the same from the Apostles until now; What will such do, and where will their succession of truth lie when they come to the woman Pope, of whom the Papists themselves are ashamed.  
In answer I retort it thus, to lay the chain of succession of truth this way; namely, through the Popedom, as all such must do that hold the writing or the letter of the Scriptures to have continued from the Apostles until now in a way of personal succession in that defection; what will such do when they come to the woman Pope, of whom the Papists themselves are ashamed; truly J. S. hath cause to be ashamed of his foolish reason, which if it were true, he would find himself to be at as great a fault as his oponent.  
But further, I say, such as hold the continuation of the Church and Ordinances through Popish defection, or under the state of the Popedom, will do well enough with their tenant, notwithstanding Pope Joan, who could never reach the Churches being, to cause it to cease; nor yet Baptism, of which in special is our question; all the coined words of J. S. put upon the matter will not do it; as his chain of succession of truth, in stead of continuation of Baptism; again, hold a personal succession; again, where will their succession of truth lie: All these being returned home to J. S. their master, he will see, or at leastwise any indifferent person will be able to see, that Pope Joan will help nothing in the case, to hinder the continuance of the Churches being, nor yet of the being of Baptism, with which Pope Joan meddled not, nor was any way concerned: this matter at the most is but a relic of the dram before.  
I. S. further tells us, that when he speaks of personal succession of truth, as in reference to Church and Church Ordinances, he looks upon this in the power and authority that bears the same.  
Answ. Now J. S. seemeth something to awaken out of his dream and to speak sense, what ever sense he have in it (his personal succession of truth set aside) when he speaketh of the Church and Ordinances their continuance, he looketh upon this in the power and authority that bears the same. Now surely, the power and authority that bears the Church and Church Ordinance up, is the power of him that beareth up all things by his mighty power, Jesus Christ our 
Heb. 1. 3.  Lord, against the gates of hell, that preserves his Church, as he did his Ark, when Dagon fell in his own Temple. Is it not a wonderful 
Matth. 16.  thing, that he should conceit that Antichrist should by any power of his, support Christ's Church and the Ordinances thereof, that with all his might and force indeavoureth their destruction and ruin? but in vain, for Christ is stronger, that with his mighty power supports them.  
But J. S. looking awry, cannot see any other bearing up the Church and Ordinances, then by Antichrist and the Pope, that are trampling it down what they can, fitting there as God; for by no means will he be brought to distinguish and put difference betwixt God's Temple, and the Man of sin sitting in it, but like Nicodemus he will say, How can it be, Joh. 3.  
For saith he, To hold a Church to be true (in regard of being, you must mind, and not of purity) and the Ordinances their administered the true Ordinances of God, and to leave this, and to set up a way of worship apart from it, and to deny communion with it; is in his dark understanding a mere Schism and the overthrow of all Order in Religion.  
Answ. I am both glad and sorry: Glad, that J. S. is no Apostle, so as we are not bound to believe his bare word, unless we will: Sorry I am, that he hath so dark a judgement and understanding, as in this he doth discover: For first, I say, a Church may be true, and the Ordinances true, that is Gods; and yet both corrupt, so as they cannot be partaken with all without sin. In such a case there is to be a withdrawing from them, in regard of particular communion; in as much as we are to keep ourselves pure, not doing evil for good ends: Yea, a Church in regard of membership may be left, and that without the said Church's consent, as plainly appeareth by the example of the Apostles and others that left the Church of Israel of old, and that while it was a Church: And God himself calleth his people out of Babylon, Rev. 18. 4. though the Church and Ordinances have a being there; in as much as there can be no remaining there, but there will be a partaking in sin. So as leaving particular communion, and personal relation of membership, I conceive is very necessary, and according to God, after the manner of all the Reformed Churches that have come out of Babylon, & renounced communion with her in the things of God, because of the evils attending of them, lest they should be defiled. As on the other side, they have drawn nigh to God in the purity of his ways and worship; as those did that left Israel in the time of their Apostasy, and came to the Lord and his pure worship in Judah. But thus to do, namely, to leave a Church and Ordinances greatly polluted and defiled, and to worship God together purely, apart from that corrupted estate, withholding fellowship, is in his dark judgement a mere Schism; (alas poor dark judgement) such a Schism as he hath oft made and those of his way are full of in their own sense. The holy Apostles and believing Jews were Schismatics in his account; and all the Reformed Churches and Christians that have forsaken Babylon and are come out of her, are all Schismatics in his dark judgement: But no marvel he so accounteth of these latter, seeing by his reckoning they are not baptised Christians. Truly he, and those of his way, by light and clear judgements will be discerned to be even such themselves, for doing as they do.  
Now to that latter part of this charge, That it is the overthrow of all order in Religion: I ask him which way it appeareth so to be; sure he cannot tell; for if it be well minded, it will be found to be a special means of the preserving of religion decayed, and a repairing of it, and of reducing it to the first purity, and an utter putting away all rust and defilement; and therefore the Apostle giveth in charge, having forewarned of the great defection of Antichrist, not to begin a new; but to keep the (old) Ordinances, according 
Thes. 2. 15.  to the purity they were delivered to us. J. S. his course, I suppose, is guilty of the overthrow of all order in Religion, not only what is of God, remaining, and afoot in the world; but even of that also which is held forth in the Word: in erecting a new Church, and dispensing new Ordinances, without a new Commission, which never any did before.  
After this, he tells us of his learning Christ, which sure is very little, in regard of order, as his way and course doth show: So far, faith he, as I have learned Christ, men are to stand in their places, and use all means to reclaim and reform (corrupt Churches he meaneth) by the word of truth. Very good; But what if they will not reform, and all means which we can use availeth not? This being done, saith he, so as of necessity I must leave off communion with them. So as it seemeth communion may be left with a Church that is Gods, because of evil, and obstinacy in the same. Then in such a case he thinketh (for he only giveth us his thoughts without Scripture) he must disclaim them, and separate from them. To which I say, it is but upon the condition of their non-repentance, which challengeth sometime of waiting: but that such a Church he ought to disclaim, and separate from, he holdeth. First, I would know, whether he may do this while it remaineth a Church of Christ? If he say yea; then I ask him, What is become of that which in his dark judgement was a mere Schism? But if he say nay, not till the Church ceases to be: Truly, that will be a very hard matter for him to determine, especially to hit upon the very hour of such a Church's death, from which time he is freed from her relation without Schism. But yet further, he holdeth, as before; He must stand in his place, and use all means to reform, and reclaim such a Church by the word of God. Indeed, I say, that is a good medicine, and wholesome plaster to heal such a disease and malady: I would fain know whether he be not to wait to see the issue; and whether he be not to exercise long patience after the example of Almighty God, that sent his Prophets to his Church, rising 
Jer. 25. 4.  early, and sending them; and notwithstanding their wickedness, and abuse of his long patience, did not disclaim them, or his relation unto them, till such time as they rejected the Son himself, and so were broken off through unbeleef. But further, if this his good medicine of admonition, reproof, and use of all good means in his 
Rom. 11. 20.  place, shall not avail; but in stead of curing, the Church shall be killed; that were a sad matter indeed. But however, the Physician shall not lose his reward, though the patiented die. But oh! to know whether she be dead in all the parts of her, every member, is a hard matter to know: happily she may have life in her inward parts; to bury her, before quite dead, were an ill business. Sure out of so great a labyrinth as J. S. his thoughts necessarily led into this way, he will no way know which way to get forth, unless he happily shall ingeniously confess the darkness of his judgement to have deceived him, and so acknowledge that a Church may be left in regard of communion, and membership, by reason of great corruption and defilement, and that though it retain the being of a Church of Christ, and that without any Schism.  
J. S. goeth over this matter again, on the negative, by a back blow of the left hand, saying, And not to leave a true Church, and true Ordinances, (though never so corrupt and defiled, and therein obstinate and impenitent) and go apart to set up another Church, and Ordinance, (that is, serving God together, in the freedom and purity of his Ordinances, as the reformed Churches do) apart from it, and in opposition to it: This is as far from the Rule of the Gospel, as for a man to baptise himself; neither of which he approveth of.  
Answ. J. S. Laying down the matter to his own advantage, may happily make it seem something; but if it be well sifted, and scanned, it will be found just nothing. The leaving a Church in defection, and gathering or going to a Church gathered in freedom, and purity, is the matter in question: The refraining Ordinances corrupt, so as they cannot be partaken withal without sin, we being required to keep ourselves pure, for the Saints to serve God together in the freedom of his Ordinances purely: Sure he will not count this against the rule of the Gospel; if he do, it is not for want of ignorance: Where is the pinch in this case? It is surely in this, of erecting another Church. To which I say, it is but another in number, by multiplication, not in nature; sure he doth not question that neither, they practise such, multiplying themselves in their way. What then must it be? That it is in opposition to the other: To which, I say, it is but in opposition to the corruptions, and defilements of the other; so as here is a pure Church, and Ordinances in their Administrations, in opposition to a Church and Ordinances administered corruptly. So far is this from an evil, as sure it is a high virtue in Churches and particular persons; so, as to say no more, having before treated of this matter. Betwixt thus doing in this case, and a man's baptising himself, J. S. may see a wide difference, if prejudice doth not let him.  
J. S. hath yet a word more: Because some hold it an error, without example or warrant from the Word, for a man to baptise himself or others, being himself unbaptised: whereby, saith he, they think to shut up the Ordinance in such a straight, as none can come by it, but through the authority of the Popedom.  
Answ. A straight it is indeed, as great as Saul was in, when he presumed 
1 Sam. 13. 11.  foolishly to sacrifice; and this he will find every day more and more, there being not a few as rational as himself late of his way, that do see this; and rather than acknowledge their error and return, proceed to a further and greater error: namely, to hold no Church of God, nor Ordinance of Christ, existing in the world, nor none to be had, nor enjoyed, till Christ personally again appear, or send such to restore them, as by miracles can evince their mission. Such an opinion he is not unacquainted with: I wish him to consider further of it, and see if it be not rational from his ground, though very irrational and unreasonable for Christian men to believe, without ground of Scripture, against so many clear evidences of holy Writ, and faithful promises of Jesus Christ, Dan. 7. 27. Mat. 16. 18. & 28. 20. Act. 5. 39 Heh. 12. 28, 29. Luke 1. 55. etc.  
For the opening of this cloud, saith he, that seems so to darken the sky, let the Reader consider who baptised John (I say let them rather consider John's particular & special commission) before he baptised others; and if no man did, then, whether he did not baptise others, himself being unbaptised: and if he was baptised, whether it was not by an unbaptized person?  
Answ. This Instance referreth itself to the beginning of Baptism at the first, and so it is brought, in way of parallel, to prove the new beginning of Baptism, that former being lost and ceased out of the world.  
Now, if this matter be minded, John was (according to what was foretold) sent of God to prepare the way of Christ, and had special 
John 1. 6.  warrant in particular wise to Baptise: as it is written: There was a man sent of God, his name was John. So as if this prove any thing, it must be upon the same ground; that is, having the same Warrant and Commission in particular, as John had: for as john's example would not serve any, in those times, to go without Commission, or Baptise without command, being unbaptised themselves; Cornelius must have Peter; Paul, Ananias; and our Lord himself, for righteousness sake, must go to John: Even so in like kind, it will not serve any now to recover and raise (as they pretend) the Ordinance of Baptism lost and fallen out of the world, without special warrant, as he had.  
But because this of john the Baptist is still catched at for help, in this helpless cause, I shall add a word or two: First, The orderly way of raising Baptism, I. S. holdeth to be by the Church's power and appointment, and this way they proceed. But john's Commission, it was not from the Church, but it was immediately from God that sent him to prepare the way of his Son.  
Secondly, concerning john, the Scripture testifieth; That he was a Prophet, and more than a Prophet: But how, or what, or whether or 
Matth. 11. 9  no concerning his particular Baptism, it is altogether silent. It is not for men to be over wise, or meddle above what is written; but let the body of Moses alone.  
Last of all, I will put it upon this Issue; In the judgement of indifferent men, whether they think it will follow, that because Abraham and john Baptist were the first beginners and actors in Circumcision and Baptism, by virtue of special Commission to them personally; that therefore it was lawful of old, in case of Circumcision, for any of the heathen to have also circumcised themselves and families: or in the case of Baptism, for others at that time, by virtue of his example, to have baptised also as he did, without any Commission at all; for if in those times it was not lawful for them so to do, but of necessity they must go, as our Lord did, to the Baptist, then in as much as length of time, can give no warrant, to a thing not warrantable at the first; I conceive it will be given, and concluded, that Instance is invalide, and of no force to warrant a person to baptise himself, or others, being himself unbaptised.  
Which he in the case of Baptism, saith, was written for our learning, and teacheth us what to do upon the like occasion. To which I say, supposing the occasion, he here speaketh of, is not that of necessity that hath no law; but leaveth men at liberty to do the best they can: which is the last refuge of I. S. and those of his way: There is, I say, no such occasion as in the case of john, there being no Scripture to be fulfilled by sending a messenger before to prepare Christ's 
Matth. 3. 3.  way. There is no such occasion, for that there is no new Commission, nor any new Ordinances to be set on foot. Again, there is no such occasion, for that there is baptised persons in the world to repair unto; that as Christ our Lord went to john, so we might go to them.  
Besides, what is not written, cannot be for our learning. Now it is not written, when, or where, or by whom, or whether at all john was baptised, so as none of any such things can be for our learning, unless we will go beyond our Lesson: But this is written, that he was sent of God, and had special Commission to do what he did; that we might learn, not to run before we be sent, but to be obedient in going when we are bidden, and doing as we are commanded, as he did.  
Further I. S. saith, for the continuance of the Church from Christ's words: The gates of hell shall not prevail against it. Here by the way, I take notice, that he hath laid aside his succession, and personal succession, and speaks now plain English; namely, the continuation of the Church, Matth. 16. 18.  
Now what saith he to this? He confesseth the same: But in so doing, he overthroweth his new way and course; for if the Church continue, and hath continued, what need is there of new beginning, and baptising by persons unbaptised: surely none at all. And therefore he maketh his acknowledgement with a proviso; that is, by a distinction that indeed is either a nonsense, or else a flat denial. The distinction is thus: That this Church is to be considered, in her instituted State, as it lieth in the Scriptures; in the rules of the foundation. (See what expressions are here; Instituted State, Rules of foundation, Lying in the Scripture; as much, and no more than this, according to the pattern set forth in the Word) Or otherwise in the second place, in her Constitation, or constituted form, in her visible Order. As much as if he had said, in her outward being. Now of the pattern is not our question; for as the pattern of the Temple was one thing, and the Temple built, or to be built, was another thing; so it is here. But see what J. S. saith, having made such a distinction, as before, to darken the truth: Thus he saith, Against the first hell gates never prevailed. This pattern standing sure in the Scriptures, as of old the pattern of the Temple might remain, when the Temple was destroyed. But against the Church itself, which is the second part of his distinction, it hath prevailed. So the sum is as much, as if he had said, hell gates never prevailed against the Scriptures; but against the Church, built according to the Scriptures, it hath. Now let any man excuse the irrationalnesse of I. S. if he can; thus to grant in show, and deny in substance and truth, with one breath, the continuation of the Church, according to the Word and ptomise of Christ, made to the Church, and not to the Scriptures. And I say unto thee, thou art Peter; and upon this rock 
Mat. 16. 18.  (to wit himseif) I will build my Church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it to destroy it. For why, it was built on a sure foundation, not to be moved for ever.  
Now this Church, the continuation whereof he granted before, having deceived himself and his Reader, by a groundless distinction; he denieth the continuation now, and saith, Hell gates hath prevailed often against it. But whence is it that he is thus contrary, and I and no? Saith he, For the Church hath been often in her outward order scattered through persecution and the like. Sure this is a very weighty reason, thus to over power a man; what if the Church hath been scattered through persecution, must it then follow, a destroying by hell gates: though the Church hath been greatly scattered through persecution, yet she continued her being, and was so far from being by hell gates prevailed against, as that they overcame by suffering 
Rom. 8.  the gates of hell, and were more than conquerors. The blood of the Martyrs being the seed of the Church, and the Church the more oppressed, the more growing and increasing. J. S. saith, in this sense of being scattered, she is said to be overcome. To which I say, that this is not the sense of Mat. 16. 18. nay, it is against the sense of the Scripture, that by afflictions the Church should be overcome, when as in all afflictions the Church hath been more than conquerors through Christ that loved her. I. S. citeth two or three places, Dan. 7. Rev. 12. Act. 8. 1. For that in Daniel, it is utterly against his sense, for speaing of the Kingdom of Christ his Church, it saith, it shall not be destroyed, vers. 14. 27. As for that, Rev. 12. it plainly declareth the prevailing of the Church, and not her being overcome or destroyed, and that they overcame by the blood of the Lamb, and that the Dragon was cast out. It indeed speaketh of the woman's fleeing into the 
Rev. 12.  wilderness, but there she was preserved and not destroyed, the earth helping the woman against the rage of the Dragon. Sure there can no sense hence be gathered, of hell gates prevailing to destroy her. Lastly, Act. 8. 1. It speaketh of saul's making havoc of the Church, and persecuting of it, but this tended greatly to the increase of it, and not to the destroying of it. Certainly 1 S. will not think, much less say, hell gates at this time prevailed against the Church, indeed it never did, for that was always true which was said of the Church of old, Many a time have they afflicted me from my youth, may 
Ps. 129. 1. 5.  Israel say, but they have not prevailed against me, the righteous Lord hath cut the cords of the wicked in sunder. I suppose I. S. hath but small judgement, and less aim, to bring such Scriptures as these to prove that hell gates have prevailed against the Church in any Scripture sense. It were far better for him to hold the continuation of the Church according to the sure Word and faithful promise of Christ, and if he would not acknowledge her continuance under the apostasy and defection aforesaid, then to endeavour to find her continuance some where else. But in regard this would overthrow his new unbaptized Church, and proceed that way, he rather chooseth to asperse Christ of unfaithfulness in his promise, then by acknowledgement to give him the glory of it.  
In regard of the former matter J. S. seemeth to have had an eye to a collateral reason, which he setteth down thus: Where was their Church before it came out of the defection?  
First, let it be observed how he shaketh hands with the Romanists, that use to say in like manner, Where were the reformed Churches before Luther?  
But in further answer to this demand, I say, it was in regard of the matter of it in Babylon, as the seven thousand were in the apostasy of Jeroboam; out of which apostasy of Babylon, God called them forth, Rev. 18. 4. And so, by the efficacy of that heavenly voice, they being drawn forth, they served God in the purity of his Ordinances, (a part,) as the Israelites that left Jeroboam and his Idolworship 
1 Thes. 1. 9  at Dan and Bethel, and served God at Jerusalem. These turned from those Idol ways in Babylon, To the pure service of God in Zion, and so kept according to the injunction the Ordinances, as they were delivered to them, 2 Thes. 2. 15.  
This question is of the nature of what we have treated on before, about leaving a corrupt Church for obstinacy in evil; and therefore I shall not further trouble myself nor the Reader about it, being assured, it cannot reach so high, as make good any sense of the destroying of the Church by persecution, to which it is added here.  
I shall only here mind the Reader, that our question is not of one particular Church, but of the state of the Church remaining in one place or other with few or many, in freedom and purity, or in bondage and corruption, according eo various conditions and changes that attends her in the world, wherein she is in all of those conditions preserved by Almighty God. I. S. addeth in his further proceed, saying, That which once was in such a way of being, and ceases for a time, and then comes to the same estate again, is and may truly be said ever to continue, as Mat. 22. 31. with Luk. 20. 38. In which sense the Church may be said ever to continue, for though she be cast down at one time, yet god will raise her again at another, so as she shall never be prevailed against, so as to be utterly destryed.  
Answ. This is plain nontsense to me, first granting, then denying, and so the whole amounting to just nothing but a mere conceit.  
Here is the Church in a way of being, here is the Church seizing to be for a time; here is the Church coming to live & have being again; here is the Church that ceased to be for a time affirmed; (untruly) to have ever a being, (just as the Temple had when it was destroyed,) here is the Church cast down, (that is, without being, for so he must mean, else he deceiveth,) here is the Church said to be raised up by God again, and her being restored to her; here is concluded the Church was never prevailed against, so as to be utterly destroyed. Truly, truth is strong and prevaileth. I. S. speaketh not as of himself, but as overcome by the truth, which he fought to darken and turn aside, but at last is forced to confess it, as they were that had hand in crucifying Christ, that said, Truly this was the Son of God, when they had before crucified him. So 
Mat. 27. 54.  he in like manner is in the end forced after all, to confess that the Church was never prevailed against, so as to be utterly destroyed.  
But I shall here observe how that what he before said might be made a rational matter, if it were rightly applied, as thus; That which was once in such a way of being, (that is to say, pure and undefiled, and for a time ceases so to be,) (that is, becomes corrupt and defiled, like the faithful City that became an harlot.) And 
Es. 1. 21.  then comes the same estate again, (that is, to her former purity and holiness,) is, and may truly be said, ever to have a continuation. In this sense I would join with J. S. touching the Church's continuation, for though she be corrupted at one time, yet God will restore her to purity at another; yea, If by affliction she be diminished 
Ps. 107. 39 Ps. 105. 24.  and made low at one time, yet at another time God increaseth her like a flock of sheep. In either of which senses she hath never been prevailed against, so as to be destroyed: but this genuine sense J. S. may not admit of, for that it will not stand with his way and practice, and therefore by multiplicity of expressions he would produce some thing: namely, That the Church may some time live, and have a being, and at another time die and lose her being, and yet she shall never cease to be. That is, be prevailed against to be destroyed: and this he thinketh to prove by alluding to a place or two of holy Scripture, before quoted, for confirmation of his conceit.  
To which I answer, those Scriptures indeed do seem to illustrate his sense, and what he intendeth; namely, that the Church may be said ever to continue, though at some time she ceased to be. But how senseless a thing it is thus to conceit, will appear if we mind the matter a little. It is the resurrection of the dead which is the case: now as men die, and are not, and yet shall live again, and be; so the Church in like manner. But may such and such men be said to have ever a continuance in the World, (which is our question,) and not to have been destroyed by death, because they shall rise again? Nay, doth not this prove plainly, that death had dominion over them, and that they were thereby destroyed? for otherwise, how should there be place for their rising again. And indeed the restoring of the Church to her being doth necessarily imply the loss of her being; otherwise there would be no place for restoring. If all men had been destroyed at the deluge of Noah, a new creation had been necessary.  
Happily he may think their is something in that, that God is not the God of the dead, but of the living, in as much as all live to him. Indeed this may prove the soul's immortality and living with God. But what sense it hath in regard of the Church, is beyond my thoughts; for certainly, if it hath reference to the Church, it will enforce the being and continuace of the Church of the Jews and the patriarchal Churches which ceased long ago: To imagine their continuance, what can be more vain?  
But further, if because all live to God, therefore the Church always hath a being, where is place left for her death and cessation? Truly this is a matter too far fetched, to prove any thing in this matter that may stand him in any stead, for if any thing be gathered from it, it must be that; as Abraham, and so other Prophets died and left the world; so the Church of Christ died also and was destroyed out of the world. But if he shall say, Abraham and the rest lived notwithstanding: The answer is, they lived indeed another way, not in regard of their mortal bodies, but in regard of their immortal souls. Their outward visible bodies were destroyed and in the dust; so the outward visible Church is destroyed, and ceases to be; but the inwardness of it (the life and soul, to wit, Jesus Christ) is in heaven with God, what this maketh to the matter in hand I leave the Reader to judge.  
And this way, saith J. S. I suppose Christ may have and enjoy as good a wife ever as any can be preserved for him under the defection of Antichrist.  
Answ. This way is a mere supposition, without reason and against sense: That Christ should have sometime a wife, and sometime none, and then one again; and yet he should have ever one preserved. It were good to lay aside such senseless suppositions, and to believe the Scriptures, that tell us that the man of sin sometime sitteth in the Temple of God; and that God's Temple 
2 Thes. 2. 4.  remaineth; and hell gates shall not prevail against it. Though the Church (Christ's wife) may go astray and be corrupted, yet he 
Matth. 16. 18  that is her husband will not forsake, but will reform her and refine her, and put new garments on her; sure he hath read what God said of old to his Spouse, Thou hast played the harlot with many 
Jer. 3. 10. 22.  lovers, yet return to me, saith the Lord, I am thy husband and thy maker. But happily if he had then lived, he would have supposed 
Esa. 54 5.  that Christ might have had, or have made to himself a new (as he in this case endeavoureth to do for him) as good a wife as that that was, so corrupt and defiled. The truth is, there is more rich grace and free mercy in Jesus Christ then to take advantage and to refuse, and put away, for he is the Lord that changeth not, and therefore his Church is not destroyed, no, notwithstanding the evils she 
Mal. 3. 6.  falleth into, for he hateth putting away.  
It were more suitable for J. S. and those of his way, to profess 
Mal. 2. 16.  the doctrine of works, which is suitable to their other opinions, than the doctrine of free grace, unless they would be more true to their principles, as in this particular; more especially, wherein they hold corruption dissolveth the marriage bond, and maketh the relation to cease, and causeth the everlasting Lord to change, and his Covenant to fail for evermore, Psal. 77. 8.  
The following complaint and story, by which it is illustrated, I have spoken unto it before; in which matter of guilt, if he and those of his way should take water and wash their hands, they would notwithstanding be no less guilty than Pilate was of Jesus blood.  
But after this, he telleth of his fears, and that is, that men put more in Baptism then doth of right belong to it, that do prefer it before the Church and all other Ordinances besides.  
Answ. Is not J. S. and those of his way sick of this disease, and that as dangerously as those he is in such fear of? how otherwise should it be that they should be so often baptised, over and over, and over again, and make a Church, that they may make Baptism? I leave the Reader to judge.  
2. How doth this appear which he so feareth in others, that they prefer it before the Cburch and all Ordinances beside.  
Answ. It is only to the qualification of the matter externally, that it might be suitable to the rest of the building, Ephes. 5. 26. But yet this charge is not altogether true, for they do not prefer Baptism before the Word and the publishing of it, by which faith comes: Nay they do not prefer it above, or before the Church; the Church being the pillar and ground of truth; that is, of the truth 
1 Tim. 3. 15.  of Ordinances and divine worship, and so of Baptism in the proceed of it in a right way, which Church the matter of it at the preparing of it by John was first baptised, and after laid together in the building. So of this matter thus, by John's preaching prepared, and by his washing in the second place fitted, was in after time gathered and laid into a holy building to the Lord, which Church way begun, and settled in the world, augmented and increased: those washed washing others, according to Christ's appointment; never any unwashed person being added or laid into the building since the Church begun, it being necessary that the matter of the Temple be outwardly fitted, that it may suit with the rest of the building being laid thereon. So as J. S. may be satisfied that his fears in the first place are causeless, the Church being on foot according to God, Baptism in administration followeth: But in further declaring the reason of his fears, he saith:  
For they can erect a Church, take in and cast out members, elect and ordain officers, administer the Supper, and all anew without looking after succession any further than the Scriptures. But as for Baptism they must have that successively from the Apostles, though it come through the hands of Pope Joan: what the reason of this is that men can do all from the Word but only Baptism, and that must come by man, even by the man of sin.  
Answ. To balance the thoughts of J. S. I will present a case to his consideration, supposing he had lived in the Apostasy of the ten Tribes (yea of Judah's Apostasy) and returning to the Lord and his pure service, as those of the ten Tribes that went from Israel to Judah, had other Priests and Ministers of the Law and service of God, and a pure way of serving of God, only that of circumcision, they would continue that (though according to his conceit in the case of Baptism) it came from the two Calves. What would he have said or thought of it in this case I would feign know? If they did well, it is good for us to imitate them in a like case.  
2. I say, as before more fully, I have showed that this Church and Ordinances are but new in regard of purity, the other being corrupt; so all this he calleth new, is not like their new raising of the Church and Ordinances, as if those before had lost their being, and were not at all. In this their case which he so excepteth against, there is express warrant, 2 Thes. 2. 15. keep the Ordinances as they were delivered unto you; that is, purely.  
3. Baptised persons, in the case of their return from idollwayes and Apostasy, to the pure service of God, are to look after Baptism no otherwise then circumcised Jews did in the like case when they returned unto the Lord, Ezek. 44. 9 They were not to circumcise themselves, or be circumcised again; yet the Heather coming along with them, they must be circumcised. In like manner, God's people coming out of Babylon, according to the call of God, Rev. 18. 4. are not required to be again baptised, though the Jews and other Heathen that embrace the faith of Christ, are required to do it, which I would wish I. S. and those of his way to consider of.  
4. For the continuation of the Church and Baptism, the outward qualification of the matter, the Scriptures fully give witness unto (as before is showed) so as is no need of beginning them a new in any sense (unless of purity) but other Ordinances are by negligence laid by and out of use, something in the room of them: and so are by the Church to be restored to their places, when the Church is purged and made pure.  
Lastly, for this of Baptism, coming through the hands of Pope Joan, and from the man of sin: It is a false and scandalous reproach; it cometh no more through the hands of Pope Joan, and the man of sin, than the holy Scriptures did, or then Circumcision did, through the hands of the two Galves of old. J. S. may be ashamed so to reproach God's holy Ordinance, by his good pleasure preserved to this day, I would wish him to call to mind his complaint & story before.  
And now in regard he is up with Pope jone again, to disgrace the truth, and those that stand for it; whereby to make persons afraid, and do they know not what; which after, they undo again, and so 
Gal. 2. 18.  make themselves every way trespassers by destroying what they before built.  
I will note some particulars, wherein those of his way shake hands with Pope joane, and the man of sin, and leave the Reader to judge who may be most justly taxed for affinity with Pope Joan, the reformed or separated Churches, or those of the new way of Baptism.  
First, those of that way of Baptism hold general or universal redemption with the man of sin and Pope Joan. 2. . 3. Falling from grace. 4. Conditional Election, that men may be saved if they will themselves. 5. They hold an universal Church, and general ministry, with power universal. 6. That Antichrist is not yet come, and shall be a particular man, and shall continue but three years, etc. 7. They hold with Pope Joan, and accordingly censure all the reformed and separated Churches for mere Schismatics. 8. They hold with Pope Joan dipping in Baptism. I do not say that J. S. or all of that way hold all these particulars; but this I am sure, that all these are held by persons in that way; in practice they also shake hands; for as the man of sin hath made a Church, so they also have made a Church; only the man of sin and Pope Joan have succeeded better in their work, for they have made a Church of a large structure; whereas theirs is yet but a little Terret of the like nature. 2. As Pope Joan hath sent out her messengers to preach and baptise; (namely, the Friars and others) the Moors and Indians: so in like manner these send out their messengers to preach and baptise also. 3. As Pope Joan and the man of sin give authority to their instruments and ministers to act things without the cognizance of the Scriptures, so in like kind do they; namely, authorising an unbaptized person to baptise others. In this and one thing more they exceed in irrationalnesse Pope jone; to wit, of giving mission to unbaptized persons to baptise. 2. In Baptising them that were before baptised. I will forbear to add other particulars. Now let them show if they can any such doctrines held, or courses taken by the separated, or rightly reform Churches in way of affinity with Pope Joan, and the man of sin. I say no more, but leave the Reader to judge.  
In the end of this Sexion he uttereth divers high Notions, so undigested, unsound, and contradictory, as a man that should weigh them, could not but wonder.  
First, he saith, that we are to know that the truth depends not upon Churches, nor any mortal creature, but only upon the immortal God, who by his Word and Spirit reveals the same, when, and to whom he pleases.  
This is the first of his wonderful Notions, which we are to know, that the truth of Ordinances, and right serving God (of which is our question) depends not upon Churches.  
Where then is J. S. his orderly way he proposed according to God, by the Church and her assignment of one or two of her members, to begin Baptism, being lost, etc.  
Secondly, This that he would have us to know, is directly contrary to that which God teacheth us to know in his Word, 1 Tim. 3. 15. The Church of the living God, God himself saith, is the pillar and ground of truth: that is, of Religion and divine Ordinances, as we said before.  
Thirdly, If I. S. say, he do not mean truth of Ordinances, truly he is then beside the matter in hand, deceiving and being deceived.  
Fourthly, If he mean as in the former is specied, with whom then doth he contend? Do not all confess the truth, as Doctrinal, to have God for the Author of it, and to depend on him? What high words doth he here use to amaze the Reader? as, The truth depends not upon any mortal man. Who ever held so? But upon the Immortal God, Who ever held otherwise? But this immortal God reveals the same by his Word and Spirit. What, doth God reveal new Ordinances of Religion by his Word and Spirit? Sure this is some dark nonsense: He questionless meaneth some other thing: What Revelation he herein intendeth, is not hard to guess; however he is beside the matter, and clean out in this first Notion.  
Second Notion: And for succession of truth, (truth of Ordinances you must understand) It comes now by the promise of God, and faith of his people, whom he, as aforesaid, hath taken out of the world to the fellowship of the Gospel.  
Answ. Setting aside succession, and in stead thereof putting in continuation; What can be more right than this, though not in J. S. his sense? The truth of Ordinances continues by virtue of Gods promise made to his people, they continuing to believe in him, and not forgetting his name, though many times greatly failing against him, as of old; yet the truth of Ordinances continue; namely, the Church and Baptism now, as the Church and Circumcision did of old; and this by the promise of God. J. S. hath no such sense as this, but some inward familisticall sense of inward faith, and Gods promise to such secret believers; which he is never able to make out any such thing, that the truth of Ordinances depends upon them in regard of continuation, by vertee of the promise of God to them in such a secret way.  
Third Notion: To whom the Ordinances of Christ stand only by succession of faith (What faith, outward or inward?) and not of persons (What faith severed from persons?)  
Answ. I would fain know what any rational man can make of this, either in itself, or as it hath relation to what is before declared.  
Fourth Notion: For the same power the Apostles had in former time, for direction in godliness, the Scriptures have in the hand of Christ, as the head of the Church, which make up but one body, 1 Cor. 12. 12.  
Answ. such power for direction in godliness, the Scriptures had of old, when the Apostles lived. Some other things J. S. aimeth at, but the truth prevaileth, and the words he here useth will nothing avail: namely of the Scriptures in the hand of Christ joined with the Church. It's worth observing how the Church is here couched, just after the manner of the Babylonians, that pretend their Church is inspired with the Holy Ghost, and cannot err: for Christ the head is in Heaven, and hath left his Word for direction in godliness for his Church to take heed unto. Now the holy Apostles had authority to act Ordinances according to Christ's command; they were to preach, pray, break bread, and baptise; the Scriptures were not sent, neither act they any thing as before. So as in J. S. his sense, it is utterly untrue, that the Scriptures in the hand of Christ, joined with the body, have the same power to act Ordinances as the Apostles had.  
Notion fift and last, So as what the Apostles and Church together might do, (in acting Ordinances you must understand) the same may the head and body, together with the Scriptures, do now. Reader, observe how J. S. coucheth subtly his unbaptized Church betwixt Christ and the Scriptures; so as Christ being in heaven, and the Scriptures only directive; the whole matter for action will fall into the hands of the Church. A contrivance, as fine as the Papist found out when they were sore put to it by John Hus and the Bohemians, and not able to defend themselves and their courses against the truth, they invented and abetted this, That holy Church could not err.  
Secondly, observe how I. S. quitteth two of these three; namely, the head and body: and concludeth laying all the stress upon the Scriptures, and so in effect saith nothing at all, the Scriptures being only directive: for saith he, the Scriptures have the same, whereas he should have said, the head and body, with the Scriptures, have it.  
Thirdly, observe what a preposterous conjunction I. S. maketh of three, in the matter of fact; one of which, to wit Christ the head is in Heaven; who, though he hath fullness of power, acts not here below, but in a providenciall, and ministerial way, and the like. The Church, the second, Christ's wife, is in all things to be obedient to Christ her husband, his will and pleasure contained in the Scripture: the Scriptures they act not, but only direct; where is I. S. now? just where he was at the first, and no further.  
Fourthly, this is utterly untrue, which he concludeth, that what the Church and the Apostles, the Ministers of the Churches, might do; that the Scriptures (he quitteth the head and body as before) may do. Now, what might not the Church and the Apostles do, in ordinances and administration, orderly, according to God; what can the Scriptures act, truly nothing at all, their authority is only directive. I suppose any one may see how far out I. S. is in these conceits. In the close he is up again with revelation, which happily, if he did study and cleave unto, would stand him in more stead than the Scriptures that are so helpless to him in his cause.   

CHAP. IU. Containing a defence of the opinion of them that hold no right or orderly Ministerial Church, without, or before Baptism.  
I. S. Having ended his former matter, against the Church's continuance, and likewise the continuance of Baptism under the popish defection, proceeds, saying,  
And so we come to such as will have no Church before Baptism, and so make Baptism the form of the Church.  
Answ. Who these (such) are that he intendeth, I cannot tell; they are either some of his own way, or some other: some of his own way do indeed so hold, that Baptism constitutes, or is the form of the Church. Did I think he intended them, I should leave them to try it out, and should not intermeddle with the strife. I shall only, as the matter relates to them, show my thoughts briefly: namely, that they will be too hard for J. S. in the tenant, he himself being of their belief, but that he is not true to his own principle: otherwise how should he, without Schism, and being a Schismatic, leave the reformed and separated Churches, and set up another of his own, as he hath done; only he accounteth them no Churches of Christ, and what is the reason he doth so? nothing but his Baptism is wanting, so as that must be the form that gives being; for otherwise, They are companies of Saints professing faith in the righteousness of Christ, and living accordingly; that is, in holiness of life. This he describeth to be the matter, and the form he declareth to be their being united and knit together in one fellowship or orderly body; and that is the Covenant of grace by which God becomes (not visibly, as he unawars saith) but in an outward way of relation, a God unto them, and they become visibly his people. Now what is there to hinder J. S. from being a Schismatic by his own ground: for surely nothing hinders those Churches which he forsaketh and disclaimeth, as no Churches of Christ, by all or any thing, that in his description of the matter or form of the Church, by him set down can be found: and let him take in his five Reasons to help him if he please. So as it must be the want of his new Baptism or nothing, and then I leave it to him to judge, whether that be not the form of the Church necessarily, according to his ground that gives the being thereunto.  
Secondly, if by (such) he means those he was an opponent of in the former matter of the Church's continuation, and likewise Baptism under Popish defection: I shall add a little in the way of defence.  
First, granting that such hold indeed no Church (to wit, rightly constituted, as a right or lawful Ministerial Church) without or before the matter of this Church is baptised.  
Secondly, denying that in so holding, they make Baptism the form of the Church, as he inferreth, (and so make Baptism the form,) there is more goeth to the proof of a matter then so.  
His five Reasons might well have been spared, by which he would prove Baptism, not to be the form of the Church, till he had made that to appear to be of necessity the right consequence, which sure he is never able to do: for there was no right Ministerial Church of old without Circumcision, yet Circumcision was not the form of that Church: an uncircumcised person was not to be admitted a member, much less an officer Circumcision was then an external qualification of the matter; as in like manner is Baptism now.  
In this matter we shall have recourse to the first beginning of the Church of the new Testament, and of Baptism. John the Baptist the forerunner of Christ, sent of God, to prepare the way of his Son, according to Commission, baptised much people, as did also afterward the Disciples of Christ our Lord: to him repaired our Lord to be baptised, that righteousness might be fulfilled. It may be observed by the way, that this was in the Church of the Jews. Of these thus baptised was the Church of the new Testament begun, whether the initiation of it be referred to the time before the passion of our Lord, as to himself and the twelve, with whom he broke bread, or whether it be referred to the time after his resurrection, when he gathered the 120. together and blessed them, (as is most 
Acts 1.  proper) let him take his choice, and refer to which he will, it was begun of the aforesaid baptised matter, which is certainly to the life of the matter in hand, in discovering that the matter of the Church was fitted by Baptism before it was laid together. As was the Church at the first rise of it, so was the proceed: those 120. baptised, those that joined with them (being not before baptised) as it is written, they were baptised and added to the Church. This first Church scattered by persecution, became the instrument of increase, and the first matter of many Churches; which Churches by their instruments, baptised such as received the faith, and joined into the Lord, and thus was the Church and Kingdom of Christ spread throughout the World, as the holy history doth show. And let J. S. or any of his way, show that there was ever any unbaptized Church or Congregation of the new Testament, or that ever any unbaptized person was received into fellowship, or that ever any unbaptized person, after Baptism was a foot in the World baptised, or was authorized for to do it. And lastly, let him tell me, whether the order of the new Testament, (as in another case he asked,) be not as strict in this case of Baptism, as it was in Circumcision of old, when no uncircumcised might have part in the Church, or fellowship in the Ordinances, much less act Ordinances 
Esek. 44.  in way of dispensing of them to others. And let him tell me, whether a precept or example be not as necessary in all those cases, as in that of baptising Infants. And lastly, whether his practice of raising and beginning the Church of unbaptized persons, do agree with the primitive practice of our Lord and his Apostles, that began the Church of baptised matter, as before.  
J. S. propoundeth a second Reason of his opponents thus, The Scripture speaketh of no Church before Baptism. To which he answereth as he did to that of the Gates of Hell not prevailing against the Church: He must distinguish, he saith. A mere shift to blind his Reader, and avoid the truth; there needs no distinction at all in the case. He would not take it well, if any should distinguish in case of Infant's Baptism. But what is his distinction, it is betwixt the truth of the doctrine of Baptism, and the administration of it (just as he did in the forenamed case) as much as if he had said, He must distinguish betwixt the Scripture that teacheth Baptism, and Baptism or washing according to the Scripture. In this first sense, Baptism or the doctrine of Baptism (as much as if he had said, the holy word of God) is before the Church: What this is to the purpose, is beyond my judgement; nor yet that which followeth: no Church according to the order of Christ's Testament without it or before it. No Church without or before the Scripture; how this is to the matter in hand, and what clearing (or rather darkening) there is in this distinction, I leave the Reader to judge.  
But now for the second part of the distinction: Namely, the outward administration of Baptism that ever followeth the Saints joining in fellowship, by mutual faith and agreement in the Doctrine, wherein consists the stating of the Church in her conjoining in Covenant, which ever goes before in the administration of Baptism, and gives power and authority for the same; so, saith he, in the first sense the Church is not before Baptism, but in the last it is.  
Answ. The sum and scope of this whole matter amplified and enlarged, is utterly false, being referred to the purpose for which J. S. doth bring it, namely to prove an unbaptized Church, or the Scriptures speaking of such. Alas, this is fare from proving the matter; no not in a seeming way. In this case it may be truly said, from the beginning it was not so: The matter of the Church was fitted outwardly by Baptism, as is before declared: And the Scriptures give no precedent of such Church, officer, or member, at any time such a proceed being clean besides the Scriptures.  
2. J. S. deceiveth (if not himself) yet others in what he setteth down; in referring that to the initiation of a Church, which is only true of the proceed. The Church stated and on foot in the world, according to God, of baptised persons, baptizeth others in way of proceed, in a orderly way of administration; so it was at the beginning, and to begin otherwise is not according to the pattern. So as not taking notice of the difference, between right beginning and orderly proceed, he is clean out, and beside the truth, and his distinction will appear to be vain and to no purpose unless to deceive; for as he setteth down, that Baptism ever followeth in regard of the administration of it, the Saints joining in fellowship, etc. this is only true of the proceed of the Church as before; but this joining is to be of baptised matter, as it was at the beginning, which necessarily calleth either for a person from heaven, as in the instance of John, or the continuance of baptised persons in the world from John downward, as is the case now, though J. S. will not acknowledge the same. The sum of the distinction he maketh to be this in the first sense, the Church is not before the Scriptures. In the last sense, it is before Baptism; utterly untrue, as before.  
J. S. telleth us, his distinction being observed, we are not to deny a Church to be a Church, though the Scriptures do not so call it. So the Scriptures of which he spoke so great things in case of raising Baptism lost, are now become deficient, and we may be wiser than they teach us; and call a people a Church, though they do not so call them or teach us so to do and we are not so engaged: to speak as the Word of God. His reason of this strange divinity is the Church of the Old Testament, and many of the new were Churches before they were so called. But I say they were not rightly gathered Churches before they were baptised, neither doth the Scriptures give that appellation to any in a relative way to Christ, and we may not be wise above what is written. Cornelius and his friends coming together, were no right orderly gathered Church before Baptism, neither doth the Scripture so call them. After all said that may be, he demandeth, why it may not be so, that a Church may be a Church before Baptism be administered: why may not children be baptised, I would ask him? let him tell me that, I will tell him why.  
Again he saith, a Church is so a Church before Baptism, as that the end of her union is for communion. J. S. at the last doth in effect in a modest way give up the cause; (A Church so a Church) That is, in another way then at the beginning it was, when it was first instated. Again in another way, then according to a right Constitution and orderly way of serving God. Again, is a Church so as a betrothed Virgin is a wife before the day of her Espouslas, and playeth the Harlot in the mean time, and so defileth the marriage bed: So is an unbaptized Church a Church of Christ.  
After this he is up with the substance of his five Reasons before alleged, to prove that Baptism was not the form of the Church, but the Covenant. And what then? (for I will not meddle with his Reasons, be they right or wrong.) A Church may be in Covenant and fellowship before Baptism be administered (so as Cornelius and his friends were:) But I say such a Church can never administer Baptism according to God, unless they had a man sent to them, as john was sent, or as Peter was to Cornelius and his friends. He is pleased to call such a Church, whom the Scripture calleth not so. But what he here setteth down he doth as formerly, but say it and not prove it, so as we need not much stand upon it. A People are a Church by covenant, he saith, to which Ordinances are annexed: But the matter of this Church is to be first outwardly sitted by Baptism. An orderly way is necessary, and that is by persons sent of God, as was John; here he deceiveth again, affirming that of (his so a Church) which is only true of a Church stated, and on foot, according to God in the world, as was the Church of the new Testament baptised, and so the matter outwardly sitted by John before the building was erected.  
He quoteth, Gen. 17. 11. Ezek. 16. 8. Act. 2. 41. Ephes. 4. 5. and concludeth thus: So here was a Church before Ordinances, or before ever Baptism was administered, either by John the Baptist, or the Apostles.  
To which I answer, in regard of those two places of the old Testament, alleged in this matter in question: It is at least as far off as the proving the baptising of Infants from Circumcision, or their being baptised of old to Moses in the cloud and sea, which he 
1 Cor. 10.  accounteth nothing to the purpose, as indeed this is little to the purpose. They use to ask in the instance before, when produced: whether that Baptism of the cloud, etc. was the Baptism of the new Testament. I in like manner ask him whether those were the ministerial Churches of the new Testament. Alas, this matter is too far fetched. I could tell him of a Church, and a great one too, without faith, or the profession of it: namely, that gathered by Demetrius and his fellow Craftsmen, Act. 19 25. 46. he happily will count it to no purpose; truly, so is his matter here.  
As for those instances in the new Testament, sure he was much over-seen in them, and very inconsiderate: Those Act. 2. 41. had broken bread, and prayed, and were baptised, before they were a Church. As for the Church of Ephesus, no question but that was also baptised in like manner; and he might from that place as well prove a Church to be before faith, as before Baptism, by any thing I can perceive. Certainly he had little aim, in bringing such places of Scripture to prove a people to be a Church of the new Testament, before Baptism was administered to them; at least that it should be so before John's Baptism, that according to the Commission of God, administered Baptism to fit the matter of the Church, before ever it was laid into form.  
A further Objection he setteth down thus: Some say from Act. 2. 41. they were added to the Church after they were baptised. What is his Answer?  
If it were so; they should neither put on Christ, nor yet be baptised into one body, nor to the true profession of the Father, Son, and holy Ghost, etc. directly against these Scriptures, Gal. 3. 27. 1 Cor. 12. 13. Matth. 28. 19  
Answ. I am very sorry to see such weakness in persons pretending to, and promising much strength of knowledge. For,  
First, all those that John Baptist baptised, could neither put on Christ, nor be baptised into one body, nor into the true profession of the Father, etc. by his account and reckoning; and so his practice of baptising was contrary to those Scriptures by his reckoning. Was not John Baptist to blame?  
Secondly, how appeareth it, that if persons sent of God, as was John of old, (as is necessary to raise Baptism, if it were lost out of the world, as they hold) baptising according to their Commission, that those they baptise cannot put on Christ, nor be baptised into one body, nor into the true profession of the Trinity, only because J. S. saith so, without any show of ground. For,  
Thirdly, those Scriptures cited, have no such thing in them certainly to the judgement of any rational man; neither can it be imagined that there is any let in regard of any of them, why a person sent of God should not baptise before the Church be form.  
For that in Acts 2. 41. he saith, It is only declarative of the great increase of the Church through God's goodness. To which I answer; That it declareth plainly, that they were of, and by that Church baptised, that they were added unto, in as much as the Church receiveth no unwashen ones. If it were questioned whether the Church receive them before she baptise them, or baptise them before she receive them; I would give my thoughts, that in strictness of concluding, neither are first; for these are so interwoven, that they go together, & are unseparable: As thus, persons believing (being unbaptised) the Church openeth her arms to receive them, but before she can fully embrace them, they must be washed, and so made like the rest of the body. There is a different case to be taken knowledge of:  
First, of the seed of the Church (by generation I mean) they are of the Church first, and baptised for righteousness sake, because they are of the Church, and for the end before specified.  
Secondly, the case of converted Infidels; their access to the Church and Ordinances is as before; as it was in like manner of old in Israel, the infants were circumcised, because they were a part of Israel, that they might answer the whole. But the Converts of the Nations they were circumcised, that they might be of the Church, and have fellowship in the same. The case I conceive to be even so now, which I note in way of digression, as a touch to be 
Exod. 12. 48.  considered of, though happily J. S. will think it to no purpose.  
There is another Argument, which he setteth down, and maketh answer unto; all the difference amounteth but to that of the circumstance of time, and hath nothing in it substantial; I shall not make the difference greater, but shall leave J. S. to his constituting causes of his unbaptized Church, and shall forbear to trouble him, or myself, or the Reader any further, but leave all to the judgement of the godly wise.   
FINIS.   

ERRATA.  
PAg. 11. l. 20. for Infants, r. Intents. p. 13. l. 16. for shrine, r. shrink. p. 14. l. 36. for and privilege, r. a privilege. p. 45. l. 34. for constitation, r. constitution.