A Monstrous Dispute: OR, THE LANGUAGE OF THE BEAST, IN Two Men professing themselves Ministers of the Gospel; both proved at a Public Dispute in Lumberstreet, Oct. 12. 1653. 

I. That they are no Men, but Beasts.  
II. That they are no Ministers, but Monsters.    
WILLIAM ERBERY.  
Where is the wise? where is the Scribe? where is the Disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?  1 Cor. 1.20. 
Every man is brutish in his knowledge,  Jer. 51.17, 18. 
The Ox knoweth his owner, and the Ass his Master's scrib, but Israel doth not know, my people do not consider,  Isa. 1.3. 
London Printed, by J. C. for Giles Calvet, and are to be sold at his shop at the Black-spred Eagle, at the West end of Paul's.   

Something of the Dispute.  
THE Dispute I call Monstrous, because it had neither head nor tail (as they say) the Opponent could not at first find the Question, nor form an Argument to the last, and the Defendant was feign to frame both for him.  
Mr. Webster the Respondent had published a Book, and publicly preached for the exalting of God alone, and of Christ in the Spirit: Christ being the only Ordinance, or means to bring men to God; and the Spirit alone the teacher of his people; Christ the way to the Father, and none knowing the Father but the Son (inus) neither any able to say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Spirit, etc. such spiritual Truths two professed Ministers came publicly to oppose, though pretending some errors. I shall not name the opposing Ministers, because they were shamed enough at the Dispute, therefore will not strip them bare before the world; because I honour them both, especially one of them my worthy friend; There was also a third, that is, a Presbyter, Independent, and Anabaptist, three against one; but one was too many for three.  
Only because to me, they publicly resisted the Spirit, that is now breaking forth in the Saints, and seemed to spare the flesh; yea, to defend that which the Lord God is about to destroy; therefore I could not but tell the world, that the wisest Ministers, and purest Churches this day are so befooled, confounded, and defiled also with their natural Reason, and humane learning, that such things are as much set up by these Men, in the things of God, as by Papists, or Prelates.  
I will not mention all the Particulars in the Dispute, how little of reason or literature appeared in those, who professed both so much. Let the impartial hearers judge, and let all the Ministers of England Answer, if this be learning, to say, That Rationality is a habit. That because humane learning was in the man Christ; therefore 'tis not sinful in man, whose very ploughing is sin. Why not his learning al●o? Is it learning or reason, or religion to say, That all the imaginations of man's heart are only evil continually, per accidens. That humane learning is necessary for the preaching of the Gospel. Yea that Christ made use of humane learning in his Minstery, who knew n●t letters?  
And whereas the Apostle bids us beware of Philosophy, and the rudiments of this world, That's humane learning, and the like in the things of Christ, Col. 2.8. Why is it not a transgression of the Law Evangelical, to look for natural Reason and humane learning, as necessary means to open the Mystery of the Gospel, which is only manifest by the Spirit of Revelation? Eph. 1.17. Eph. 3.3, 4, 5. Gal. 1.16.  
Mr. C. Who came to oppose, would needs (according to custom) begin the Dispute with prayer, but I prayed him to forbear his prayers till he came to his Closet, and to begin the Dispute; telling him, that Christ did Dispute with the Doctors, and Paul in the School of Tyrannus, without any prayer before, no nor yet with their public preach to the world. There was no prayer before, nor after Sermon.  
I speak this, That he and other Ministers might once forbear their superstitious forms of Prayer, having no precept, nor precedent for them from Christ and his Apostles, it being a customary traditional practice of the old Priests, a voluntary humility, and seeming holiness, with a show of devotion to begin every public speech or Sermon with Prayer, which is but a mere superstition, hypocrisy, and pride also, to think themselves wiser than God, and more devoute than Christ.  
That which is commonly said, That every creature is sanctified by the word and prayer, is true, 1 Tim. 4.5. but why then do they not say grace before eating of Oysters, or Apples? and why do they not say their prayers before a pipe of Tobacco? a good creature. The word and prayer is a more spiritual and secret thing in the Spirits of the Saints, then understood by common men or Ministers.  
'Tis the word within, and the inward prayer; for we know not what to pray for, as we ought, but the Spirit helpeth our infirmities and maketh intercessions (or secret petitions) for us with sight and groan that cannot be uttered, Rom. 8.26. but these men have the spirit at command, can pray when they will, and know what to pray or utter before hand.  
Besides the mighty command of the eternal Spirit in us, is that word which is nigh thee in thy mouth, and in thy heart, Rom. 10. 'tis this sanctifieth every creature, as well as every Dispute or Sermon; in which Spirit both Christ and his Apostles went forth in their public speakings or preach, without any forms of Prayers before or after.  
Truly there was no fight, nor blows at the Dispute (as 'twas reported at Westminster) but the Dispute was so confused without any form or order, without method, or matter indeed, that I ne●er saw less Reason or Learning in rational men and Scholars, less Religion in Saints, who came to catch, not to find the truth, but to seek out errors, and set up snares in which themselves fell at last.  
The first Question was concerning the Ministry, which Mr. Webster desired his opponent to prove in himself, and to hold it forth to the people, how he was sent of God a Minister of Christ; but the man was silent to this.  
The position was, that God and not man made Ministers of the Gospel, Gal. 1.12. Men did only declare who were designed by God before, and made Ministers by him for that work. So 'twas in the Gospel-Church, the Spirit separated Paul and Barnabas, whom the Church of Antioch Ordained afterward, Act. 13.2, 3. Again, the Ordaining of Elder●, was an appointing those in their porper charge, whom God had before set apart in the Church, T●t. 1.5. Again, there was a gift of the Spirit given by the laying on of hands of the Presbytery, or Eldership of a particular Church, as Act. 20.17. 1 Tim. 4.14. compared. There being no such manifestation of the Spirit in any Church this day; how can any go forth to preach the Gospel, having not power from on high, nor the holy Spirit sent down from heaven? 1 Pet. 1.12. I mean the glorious Gospel of the blessed God, 1 Tim. 1.11. or the manifestation of the Mystery hid from the sons of men: for the Gospel virtually was preached before, under the Law, Heb. 4.2. 
The Gospel taught typically under the Law, parabolically in the Gospels, by Christ in the days of his flesh, and so by the Apostles then, till the Spirit came on the Apostles and Primitive Saints, to manifest the Mystery of the Gospel, to fulfil, or fully to preach it, as the margin reads, Col. 1.25.  and so by the Apostles, who were under a legal dispensation while Christ lived in Flesh, and the Gospel vailed (for the Apostles than were very carnal, and believed not the resurrection) but the revealed Gospel, my Gospel (saith Paul) and the preaching of Jesus Christ according to the revelation of the Mystery kept secret since the world began (Rom. 16.25. Eph. 3.3.) was not published, nor could be actually preached by the Apostles themselves, till they were baptised with the Spirit, Act. 1.5.  
How dares then any Minister now say, That he preacheth the glorious Gospel? or any Churches pretend to be in Gospel-Order?  
The next question was about humane learning, and acquired gifts of Arts and parts, with natural reason, etc. which Mr. C. did so exceedingly magnify, that I could not choose, but break forth in these Queres, saying, Sir, I see you cannot object any thing against Mr. Webster; will ye please to Answer my objections?  
First, I assert, you are no man, but a Beast.  
Secondly, That you are no Minister, but a Monster.  
To the first, I argue thus, Mr. C. you are an Ass, therefore a Beast.  
He denied my proposition, which I proved thus: 

That which God did truly say of his people Israel, may I truly say of you.  
But God did truly say of his people, that Israel was an Ass:  
Therefore may I truly say of you Sir, that you are an Ass.    
The minor is, Jer. 2.24. A wild Ass used to the wilderness, etc. but vain man would be wise, though man be born a wild Ass' colt, Job 11.12.  
My next Argument which I had ready to prove, that he was no man, but a Beast, and that to the Ministers also with him.  

If men may truly call the Ministers, as God called the false prophets, greedy dogs, than the Ministers are no men, but Beasts.  
But men may truly call the Ministers, at God called the false Prophets, greedy dogs:  
Therefore the Ministers are no men but Beasts.   
The minor is proved Isa. 56.11. Yea they are greedy dogs, which can never have enough; shepherds that cannot understand, they look to their own way, every one for his gain, from his quarter.  
Let their own conscience, and the experience of these times witness, if godly Ministers were ever more greedy of gain; none will preach under one hundred pound per. an. who formerly were content with fifty pound for a Lecture, or a little in their own Church, who now must have five hundred pound, or seven hundred pound per. an. in a College, and run from one fat parsonage to another in the country, changing their quarters.  
The next thing that I was to prove (but could not be suffered by the Ministers friends) was this, that those men are no Ministers, but Monsters, which I proved thus.  

Those men who are the Beast, with seven heads, and ten horns (O horrible monster!) are no Ministers, but monsters.  
But the Ministers are the Beast with seven heads, and ten horns.  
Therefore they are monsters.   
The minor is proved thus:  

Those Ministers who have the number of a man, are the Beast with the seven heads and ten hours.  
But the Ministers have the number of a man:  
Therefore they are the Beast with seven heads, and ten horns.   
The major is proved, Rev. 13.18. The number of the Beast is the number of a man, etc.  
If the Ministers deny the minor, and say they have not the number of a man; Then I conclude, they have the number of the Beast, and so the first is the last, The Ministers are no men, but Beasts.  
Yea, the seven heads and ten horns being the perfect wisdom of man. and the absolute power of the Magistrate (which the Independent Ministers, and Baptised also depending on so much) make themselves Monsters, and no Ministers.  
For as seven is the number of perfection, so it has reference to the seven Churches, whose heads note their fleshly wisdom: and as the ten horns are the ten Kings, or absolute Magistracy who for a time gave their power to the Beast, or fleshly Ministry, Rev. 27.13. so afterward the ten horns hate the whore, make her desolate and naked, eat her flesh, and burn her with fire, vers. 16.  
This fire is the Spirit of the Lord in our godly Magistrates, who are the most absolute men, both Civil and Martial, by Land and Sea, joined together to manage the great design of God this day, in destroying all that is of man (or fleshly Ministry) and setting up God alone in the land, that at last we may cease from man, and God may be All in All, Isa. 2.11. to 22. verse.  
That Babylon is the Church in her Members. That the Beast is the Church in her Ministers; and that the great whore is the Church in her worships (typified by the whoredoms of Israel) I shall prove (with God) another Time.  
Lastly, Let men know, that Independent Ministers were the first who new modelled Tithes in Wales: and are the last who establish Tithes in England; contrary to their old light, love, and Spirit of Liberty.  
FINIS.