A True Relation OF A DISPUTE, BETWEEN Francis Fullwood Minister of West-Alrington in the County of Devon, and one Thomas Salt-House, as 'tis said, of the County of Westmoreland: before the Congregation of them, called, Quakers; with some others that accidentally heard thereof: In the House of Henry Pollexfen, Esq; in the said Parish of West-Alrington. On Tuesday the 24th day of October 1656. Published by some that were present at the Dispute; out of a single and sincere desire, that Error may be shamed, and the Truth cleared. Together with an Answer to James Godfries Queries, By the said F. F. I will provoke you to jealousy by them that are no people, and by a foolish Nation will I anger you. ROM. 10. 19 LONDON, Printed by A. M. for Abel Roper at the Sign of the Sun in Fleetstreet over against St Dunstan's Church. 1656. The Preface to the Reader. IT seemeth strange to some, that Mr Fullwood would venture to go into the Quakers meeting; but his encouragement thereunto was, that that friend who desired him to go, hoped that much good might be done thereby; and also, assured M. Fullwood from M. Pollexfen, in whose house the meeting constantly is, that he should have free liberty. It seemeth yet more strange, that M. Fullwood would go himself, without giving any notice thereof to any of his friends who might have been helpful, at least, as witnesses to him. But for satisfaction hereunto, the warning was so short (viz. on Monday evening, for Tuesday morning at eight a clock,) that that could not have been done well. Besides, he had no thoughts of making a set dispute of it, till provoked by the Quakers railing discourse. And had he not gone, some would have been ready enough to have said, he durst not. If any take occasion to wonder at the printing hereof, the reasons are plainly thus. 1. We hear, that the Quaker threatens to print the debate himself, from whom we can expect no faithfulness therein. 2. We hear, that some others, who did not write, say, they will lay their heads together, and print as much as they can remember; which, if they should, it must needs be done very imperfectly. 3. We hear, that since, we suppose prejudiced persons, are ready to say, that the Quaker had the best: which, unless we count railing, reasoning; and impudence, Arguments; we unfeignedly think, we have all reason to wonder at. Especially, when we consider how readily, plainly, punctually, and even, from the very Scriptures, which he himself urged, he was in every thing refuted, not giving any satisfactory reply to any one answer made by M. Fullwood, as we confidently presume would easily be acknowledged, by those, that are most prejudiced, would they but seek to remember the most plausible, or else every one of his replies, one after another; and seriously, though never so briefly weigh them; which, without partiality, we earnestly beseech them to do. Wherefore we humbly put this Narrative before them, that their more steady eye may take a truer apprehension thereof, than their ear before had done. Let none slander us with unfaithfulness in the relation: We are very certain, that we have given the whole reason on both sides, and that those which lie under greatest prejudice, will, upon the reading hereof, be forced to confess, that most of the very words of M. Fullwood are here set down. Truth is, the Quaker was so full of impertinencies and repetitions, that his words here set down, seem to bear no proportion to his tedious and rude discourses: but verily, we are not conscious to ourselves, of omitting the least part of reason, or show of reason, brought by him: and words without reason may pass as wind. If any other can remember the least part of his reason, not here noted, they may print it, if it be worth the Press. Yet we are again confident they cannot. Yea, the weight and evidence of M. Fullwoods' answers, though extemporary, is such, that we think we may safely let them lose, not only to what was said that day, but to what can be replied, upon the deliberation of all the Quakers betwixt this and Westmoreland, from whence 'tis said this Quaker came. So that, if any shall print another Narrative, let them but be faithful in setting down M. Fullwoods' own answers or arguments, in their due weight and fullness, or as they are here represented, and they may take what liberty they please in setting down his answers, or any other themselves can frame, or obtain from others. We may give freely, where we know it will be freely taken whether we give or not. We know not that we have concealed any thing, save some infirmities, viz. repreaches and vile speeches; which indeed were such and so many, as even forced some of M. Fullwoods' more ingenuous adversaries to say, that they wondered that flesh and blood could continue so long under such temptations with so much patience and meekness as he did; and (to use the words of another of them) they did verily believe, E. I. not another Minister in England, could have done the like. There were some things very remarkable, 1. The cunning craftiness of the Quaker was such, that do what M. Fullwood could to force him to it, he still found some trick or other to evade the maintaining those passages (of dangerous consequence) which he let fall in his first discourse, which were not a few, and which he took notice, that M. Fullwood wrote down. 2. That he took all occasions to bring the dispute to such points, as lie in difference betwixt us and the Anabaptists; that thus he might engage the Anabaptists with himself; which he indeed effected, the greatest advantage that he got that day. 3. That, upon every stand or difficulty, he continually fled unto the common refuge, of Hireling, taking Tithes, divining for money, etc. discourse too grateful with such people, as use to follow such leaders. 4. Though he at first urged to have the express words of Scripture, to be the Rule of the Dispute: yet he himself did not so much, as once, keep himself so exactly thereunto; which would persuade us, that he had some further fetch therein, which he had no opportunity to discover. 5. Yet his cunning deceived him, in that, as is most remarkable; the very Texts, which he himself urged, as before was noted, afforded so direct and plain an answer, upon every occasion, that he had no room left for any colourable reply: and which forced him to fill up the time with, either most empty talk, or abusive speeches▪ or plain silence: thereby, giving way to others, to divert the discourse. 6. Lastly, and which did justly amaze us, how boldly, and with what enforcing repetitions, did M. Fullwood challenge him, to set down his opinions; and engage, that thereupon, he would, at the next meeting, bring Papists books, and show the people his opinions therein! and how faintly, and almost tauntingly, and at last, even shamefully, and silently did he let it slip; as appears more fully, and most remarkably in the discourse. Which, doth even persuade us, when we have thought thereupon since, that though M. Fullwood had more charity for him, in his discourse, yet, indeed, he was a Papist. The Lord awaken us betimes, lest we say peace, peace, when sudden destruction cometh. Vale. A True Relation OF A DISPUTE between Francis Fullwood, etc. THe Quaker having ended his long discourse, the drift whereof, seemed to be only, to call the people to mind the light within them, and to cry down the Ministry, under the title of false prophets; Mr Fullwood turned himself to Mr Pollexfen and said: M. Pollexfen, I acknowledge myself under your roof, and therefore I shall speak nothing here without your leave. M. Pollexfen replied, you have liberty to speak your mind. But, before M. Fullwood could begin to speak, he was prevented by a woman Quaker, who began before him, and forced the company to wait with patience till she had ended, such another, though shorter discourse, as her brother before had delivered. When she had ended, M. Fullwood began to this effect. Fullwood. I have one word, first, unto this woman, that spoke last, and that is, to charge her, with speaking expressly against the Scripture: Sh● told us, that eternal life was not to be found in the Scriptures: whereas, the Apostle saith expressly, that the holy Scriptures are able to make wise unto salvation. Woman. There is one lie already: Didst not thou say, thou wouldst speak but one word? and hast thou said but one word? I call the people to witness. Full. I said, I had one word to say to you: I can easily instance the like expression in Scripture: however, I hope, I have A w●rd of Exhortation. Acts 1●. 15. learned of him, who when he was reviled, reviled not again. The man Quak. Let that pass, the Scripture saith the same that she did. Full. Doth any Scripture affirm, that we cannot find eternal life in Scripture? Quak. Yea: That Scripture, which she intended, as I shall show thee. Full. Pray, Good people observe what he undertakes to prove, viz. that the Scripture saith, we cannot find etenall life in Scripture. Quak. 'Tis in Joh. 5. Search the Scriptures, for in them ye think to have eternal life: Christ doth not say that ye shall have eternal life therein, but ye think, etc. Full. Pray observe, is here any such thing as he undertook to prove? doth this Scripture say, we cannot find eternal life in Scripture? it saith indeed ye think ye have eternal life in Scripture, but is that, ye cannot find eternal life in Scripture? Quak. But the Scripture saith, He that hath the Son hath life, not he that hath the Scriptures. Ye will not come to me that ye may have life. Full. True: but this Son in whom eternal life is, is alone to be found in Scriptures, as the next words affirm, they are they which testify of me, therefore, eternal life is to be found in Scripture; and thus your own text overthrows you. Full. But these had the Scripture, and yet they did not come to Christ that they might have life, they were without life, though they had the Scriptures. Quak. But these Scriptures continue and reveal this Christ, in whom alone is eternal life; and therefore, could they but have searched the Scriptures until they had found Christ therein, they would certainly have found eternal life therein. Here are in the text two propositions, and an exhortation grounded thereupon. 1. In the Scripturess ye think ye have eternal life. 2. And (as if he had said ye do not think amiss, for) they are they which testify of me. 3. Hereupon, our Saviour grounds and strengthens his exhortation; Search the Scriptures. Why? Because ye think ye have eternal life in Scripture, and they do indeed testify of me, in whom alone is this eternal life; therefore eternal life, viz. in Christ, may be found in Scripture. Woman. Can the letter of Scripture alone give life? Full. The Scripture is able as a means, though Christ alone be able as the principal cause, to make wise unto salvation. Quak. 'Tis the man of God wise unto salvation. Full. There are two truths in the words. 1. The Scriptures are able to make wise unto salvation. 2. They are even able to make the man of God wise unto salvation. The Company. Come, leave this: here is an end of this. Full. I shall now expect satisfaction from you (speaking to the man-Quaker) for I have many things to charge you with, out of your own discourse. But for our clearer process, I desire to know first, what shall be Judge betwixt us, whether the Scripture, or not? Quak. Yea, I am contented, that the Scriptures, as thou callest them, be our Rule. Full. I would ask but one thing more: Quak. Nay, Have I not answered thy question, now thou shalt answer me one question. Full. What is it? Quak. Whether is that the Gospel-ministry that preacheth for hire? Full. Have but a little patience and this will have its due place: my other question is but in order to our clearer proceeding also. Quak. Nay but I have answered thee one question already. Full. One word will answer this also. The Company. Let him speak. Full. My second demand than is this, Whether the Scripture shall be our Rule in the express letter of it, or whether we may draw any consequence from it? Quak. I'll have none of thy meanings or conceivings; the very letter of the Scripture shall judge betwixt us. Full. I am contented then that it should be so. Quak. But now answer thou my question: Is that a lawful Ministry that preacheth for hire, or not? Full. Sir, I expect that you prove from Scripture, what you have delivered to us, first. Quak. Nay, now I have answered thee two questions, wilt not thou answer me one? Full. Yes, I will answer it, it will come in its course. Mr Tripe. Then let M. Fullwood put one thing to you first, which you delivered to us, and do you answer to that, and then let him answer this question. Full. I am contented. Quak. Thou hast a writing in thy pocket (he saw M. Fullwood take Notes of his discourse) give me thy writing, and thou shalt be answered in writing. Full. No Sir, then for aught I know, some Jesuit may answer it, and not you. I have you here now, and expect, that you answer for yourself. Quak. What, thou afraid of Jesuit then? Full. You shall find, through God's assistance, that I am not afraid of you. Woman. Dost know the voice of a Jesuit, when thou hearest him? if not, thou art a false prophet, for the true Prophet, knows the voice of a stranger. Full. Prove that, good woman. Woman. So I will. The Scriptures say, a stranger will they not follow, for they know not the voice of a stranger. Full. Well proved: therefore they do know the voice of a stranger. Woman. But dost thou think that there is ere a Jesuit here? Full. I am more charitable: Yet more certain I am, that the Papasts give you their doctrine, and send you abroad to deliver it. Man Quak. So then, thou dost not think we are Papists. Full. No truly: But I believe you are deluded by them, and used to manage their desperate and hellish designs But let me proceed to demand of you satisfaction in one thing, seeing my present liberty goeth no farther: 'tis this, Pray how do you prove that the Ministry of England preacheth another Gospel, than that which Paul preached; for that was one of the marks of the false prophets, as you charge the Ministry of England to be; and which, I am here to challenge you to make good. viz. that we preach another Gospel than that which Paul preached. Quak. Who said thou wast a false prophet? thou appliest it to thyself. Full. Then am I a false prophet, or not? Quak. I did not say thou wast. Full. But did not you mean, the Ministry of England, in your marks of false prophets? Quae. I own a Ministry, I own a Ministry in England, for all thou sayest I deny it. One of the Company. We do all understand, that by false prophets, he means the public Ministry. Full. I challenge him then to prove, if he can, that we preach another Gospel than that which Paul preached. Qua. So I will: Paul had his Gospel, not of man, nor by man, but from God; but thou hast thy Gospel by man. Full. We attain to the Gospel another way than Paul did; therefore our Gospel is another Gospel: this I utterly deny: prove this if you can, that our different manner of receiving the Gospel, doth render it another Gospel. Qua. Doth not Paul say, that he was an Apostle not of man, nor by man, but by the revelation of Christ Jesus? and than tells us, if any man preach another Gospel, etc. Full. But prove, if you can, that the manner of receiving, did thus make it another Gospel. Yea; good people, mark: for in this, his own text, his argument is utterly ruined. Gal. 1. 8, 9 Though an Angel from heaven, preach any other Gospel than that which I have preached, or than that, which you have received, let him be accursed. Observe, 'tis the same Gospel that Paul preached, and that they received, by his preaching. Yet Paul, as was said, received this same Gospel immediately from God, and these Galatians, from man, from Paul's preaching: therefore, you may easily perceive, that the different manner of giving or receiving the Gospel, doth not make another Gospel: the same Gospel is received by them, from Paul, which Paul received by the revelation of Jesus Christ. Quak. But didst thou receive the Gospel as Paul did? Full. I receive the Gospel from Paul, as these Galatians did even from the same writings of Paul, and they received the same from Paul which he received from God; and therefore, we receive the same Gospel which Paul did receive from the hands of God himself; which Gospel we preach, and not another. The Company. This is plain enough: Go on to something else. Quak. But thou preachest for Hire. Full. I shall answer that anon: but first do you prove that I preach another Gospel than Paul preached. Quak. Thou preachest for Hire, the Prophets prophesy falsely, the Priests bear rule by their means: we preach for nothing. Full. Come, come, Sir; You have told us, that what you deliver you have by revelation from Heaven; wherein, I tell you you blaspheme the Lord: Did God send you, with lies and slanders; to rail and reproach, & c? Quake Did I slander thee: wherein? Full. You have slandered the Ministers in many things: to name but one: you have said, to the people, that the false prophets, meaning us, in the Ministry, deny the light that is in all men. Quak. Dost not thou say, that there is no light in every man? Full. No: nor, I believe, any Minister in England. The Company. Then, herein you are agreed. Full. So far we are, yet lest I should be misunderstood; I shall show wherein we differ, about this light which is in every man. We hold, that this light is not of itself sufficient to lead men to salvation; you, as I conceive, hold that it is sufficient to salvation. Quak. Away with thy meanings and conceivings, the word of God is not of any private interpretation. Full. Stay friend, I have a word of exhortation: Wherefore, according to a passage in your discourse, you are bound to hold your peace. Qua. Speak then. Full. My discourse shall be grounded upon those known words, Joh. 1. The true light which enlighteneth every man which cometh into the world. This light is by several parties taken in three several senses; yet it will appear, that in neither of these, it is sufficient to salvation. Qua. He is at his senses and meanings again. First, Some, take this light to be the relics of that natural knowledge, which the goodness of God, hath left and kept in man since the fall. Now, we grant that thus all men are enlightened; yet it is very evident, that all men are not savingly enlightened hereby: for the Scripture witnesseth, that some men have no such light in them; namely, such as speak not according to Isa. 8. 20. this law and testimony of the word of God: and notwithstanding this common light, the Gentiles sat in darkness and in the shadow of death. Secondly, Others may suppose, that every man is enlightened by Christ as Mediator: that all the light that is in men, was purchased for them by the death of Christ; and is wrought in them by the common influence of his spirit upon the world: and thus, they say, Christ enlighteneth every man that cometh into the world. Now, should we admit this sense of the words, yet this light, as it is in every man, will be found in Scripture to be only common and not saving, or not sufficient to salvation: for yet notwithstanding, the purchase and coming of Christ, the Gentiles have their understandings darkened, Eph. 4. And though it should be granted, that this common light doth convince men of sin, yet it doth not convince men of righteousness and judgement: and therefore it is sufficient to leave men inexcusable, but it is not sufficient to lead them to salvation. Further, Though it should be granted, that this light might be called the Spirit of Christ, if it be the effect thereof: yet it is still denied, that this operation of the spirit which is common to all, is sufficient to salvation: not but that the same spirit is sufficient, but yet this operation of the spirit to convince of sin, is not sufficient. 3. Lastly, Others do interpret this enlightening in the text, to be the means of enlightening; namely the Gospel-dispensation; which, the coming of Christ, brought more eminently and universally into the world, he being the first preacher of the Gospel in this sense. Heb. 2. 3. Here I pitch; for thus, there is a light set upon an hill, shining forth and offering itself to enlighten every man that comes into the world; and the only means of enlightening all that are enlightened to salvation in the world. Parallel with that known place; The grace which hath appeared unto all men, teaching them, not that all are effectually taught thereby; yet it is still teaching them, as a means, i. e. offering to teach them the way to salvation; whereby, Christ indeed hath made a way, and fixed a means, which is sufficient as a means, to enlighten every man that cometh into the world: and thus he may be said to enlighten every man that cometh into the world. Now the text taken in this sense, 'tis evident, that all are not effectually enlightened hereby; all do not embrace and possess this light; all do not receive it, and see in it, or yield themselves to be savingly enlightened by it: the very text tells us, that the light shined in darkness and the darkness comprehended it not: to some the Gospel is hid, and Christ is not in reprobates. Joh. 1. 2 Cor. 4. 2 Cor. 13. Thus, take the text in which sense you will, yet we must conclude, that that light which is in every man, is not a saving light, or sufficient to salvation. Qua. Mark people, He saith the Spirit doth not convince of righteousness and judgement. Full. Pray speak the truth: I said if you take the text in the second sense which I do not, yet the Spirit doth not convince all of righteousness whom it doth convince of sin: or the same Spirit, may be said to convince some of sin only, and others both of sin, righteousness and judgement. Qua. Then people he would persuade us, that the same Spirit, doth not convince of sin, righteousness and judgement. Full. Cannot you speak two words true? I say, the same operation of the Spirit doth not convince of sin, and righteousness, and judgement; so that he doth sometimes convince of sin only, and sometimes of sin, righteousness and judgement. Qua. Turn to the Text: I will send the Comforter, and he shall convince the world of sin and righteousness and judgement. Again, Even the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, ye know him, and he dwelleth with you, etc. Full. From these two Texts brought by yourself for the contrary, I shall undertake to prove, above all contradiction, that the Spirit in this saving sense, is not in every man; yea, that the Spirit, as a Comforter, reprover of sin, righteousness and judgement, and as a Spirit of truth, is not in every man; which one would think should put an utter end unto this part of the controversy. This Text Joh. 14. 16, 17. saith expressly, that the Comforter, the Spirit of truth, which is promised to be with and dwell in the Disciples, the world cannot receive, because it seethe him not, neither knoweth him. Qua. Canst thou prove, that ever any one had so much light as to convince him of sin, and yet that light was not saving? Full. Yes, that I can. Judas was convinced of his great wickedness in betraying of Christ, yet Judas had not saving light. Qua. But, is not that light which convinceth of sin, if improved, sufficient to salvation? Full. Prove that. Qua. Nay, do thou prove it is not. Full. I will: There is no means sufficient to salvation, but what Scripture asserts to be so: But now we do not find in Scripture that the light sufficient to convince of sin, if improved [by us] is sufficient to salvation; if we do, show it. Some of the company did not like the Argument, but neither they, nor the Quaker himself, said any thing at all in answer thereunto. Quak. But now answer thou my question; Is that a lawful Ministry that takes Hire for preaching? Full. He may be a lawful Minister which takes Hire: prove the contrary, if you can. Qua. The false Prophets prophesy for reward and preach for Hire. Full. Pray observe, is there no difference, betwixt taking Hire, and preaching merely for Hire, or Hires sake. The true Priests in the time of the Law, had the Hire of Tithes appointed by God himself: were they therefore false Prophets? Qua. Dost thou take Hire or no? Full. If I do, I have Scripture for it: the Labourer is worthy of his Hire. However you are to prove that I preach for Hire, or merely for the sake of Hire. Qua. See, he hath acknowledged himself to be a Hireling, and that he preacheth for Hire: therefore he is a false Prophet, etc. Full. Did you come from God with these slanders? I say, I am no Hireling: I say, I do not preach for Hire, though I have a maintenance in lieu of preaching. Good people, you see I am enforced unto it: pray give me leave to magnify my Office a little, and I shall easily prove that I am no Hireling. A Hireling is one that works merely for his wages, and doth no more work than he is hired to do; What say you, is he not? Qua. Yea. Full. Then I shall prove I am no Hireling. Qua. Dost thou do more work than thou art hired to do? Full. Yes, I do: Besides my preaching twice every Lord's day, which is all I am bound [by man] unto; I Catechise: I expound upon some part of Scripture: I desire particular conference with my people, for their instruction in order to the Sacrament: I visit the sick: I preach my turn at some Lectures; And lastly, I have begun, to go and teach from house to house; which I intent, through the Lord's assistance to go through withal. And all this is more than I have Maintenance from man for. Yea, you are all my witnesses this day, that I am here, Hun●ing the Wolf is not flying from him, as the Hireling doth. Joh. 50. doing more than I am bound to do: or can expect any reward from man, for. Ye all know, I might now have been quiet in my study at home; and that I could likely expect nothing here, but what you see I here find, trouble, railing, and reviling, for this labour of my love to the souls of my poor people; that if possible, I might save them out of the hands of such deceivers and seducers. Qua. Then thou acknowledgest, thou preachest twice a day for Hire. Behold people; then he is so far an Hireling: only he hath said all this, that you might think you are beholding to him. Full. I am yet no Hireling: prove if you can, that I preach twice a day merely for my maintenance; though I am indeed thereby oblged thereunto. I preach for the glory of God and my people's salvation. You cannot say, I preach for Hire, unless you could see my heart, without uncharitableness and bearing false witness against me. Besides, I seriously profess in the presence of God, and before you all, that as I do more work than man can require: so had I no reward from man at all, yet I would preach; I hope, so long as I have a tongue to speak. Quak. O people, pray try him: see whether he will preach for nothing; my advice to you all, pray try him; pay him no more Tithes henceforward; he will preach without. Full. However, good people, pray take notice that he giveth but the Devil's counsel; he persuades you to tempt me to sin, and to leave off preaching; especially considering, you cannot thus try me, but you must withhold what is my due by Law, and so sin yourselves. Qua. Hast not thou covenanted to preach twice a day? Full. What if I have? It doth not follow that I preach merely for that, which I have covenanted for. But indeed, I have not so covenanted. When I came unto this place, I did neither covenant to my people what to do, nor they with me, what to give; in which thing, let my Congregation be my witness: indeed my maintenance is given me by Law, * And by the State. not by my people. Qua. But prove thyself no false Prophet: prove thyself a lawful Minister, a true Prophet: prove this if thou canst. Full. This is somewhat unreasonable: however, I will follow you any whither. Thus I prove it. He is a true Prophet that preacheth true and sound Doctrine: is he not? what say you to this? Qua. Yea, he is. Full. Then I am a true Prophet: for, I preach true and sound Doctrine; charge me with false Doctrine if you can. Qua. Thou takest Hire: therefore thy Doctrine is false: thou art a false Prophet. Full. Alas man, this is to find fault with my wages, not with my work; charge me with false Doctrine if you dare. Qua. Thou takest Tithes, thou hast acknowledged thyself a Hireling, thou abidest not in the Doctrine of Christ, etc. Full. Come, come, Sir, all the Company seethe you shift and flinch; charge me with false Doctrine, in some particular, or acknowledge me a true Prophet according to your own Doctrine. Qua. Do I flinch? Full. Do you not? pray observe; either your Doctrine is the same with ours: or else it differs from ours; if your Doctrine be the same with ours: why do you run up and down thus, and tell the people we are deceivers and false Prophets, when as you acknowledge, those that preach true Doctrine are true Prophets? Again, if your Doctrine do indeed, differ from ours, why are you thus ashamed to own it and bring it to trial? Woman. Do we call thee deceiver or false Prophet? Full. Set down wherein your Doctrine differs from ours, if you dare; then, I will venture to prove your Doctrine, to be popery or worse. Qua. Our Doctrine Popery? Full. Good people, pray observe me; I say, let them but own their own opinions as distinct from our Doctrine: and I do here engage unto you, to bring Popish Books with me, at the next meeting, which shall be, when you yourselves shall appoint; and therein I will show you, those opinions to be popery, which you shall own contrary to us. Qua. What's this? Full. Sir, I say it again: I am here to undertake it; accept of the challenge if you dare. One of the Company. Bellarmine holds that there is a God: is that therefore popery; the Papists may hold some truths. Full. Pray observe, I speak of such points, as the reformed Churches differ from the Papists about; now that's Popery: and not the things, wherein we and they agree; and now in those very things, wherein the Papist differs from us, you will be found to differ from us, and join with popery: dare you speak out? One of the Company. But is that a sure Rule, that because the Papist differs from us in such a point; therefore, what they hold is error? Full. An excellent principle for popery to begin withal. Though this happily may not rigidly hold, in some small circumstantial difference; yet take heed of siding with Papists in the most Fundamental points of difference betwixt us; I am sure that is popery. And again, in such substantial points, you would be found differing with us, and siding with Papists: if you durst stand to the trial. Quak. But thy Doctrine is false: thou takest Hire: thou art a false Prophet: a Hireling; for thou takest Tithes. Full. Tithes are lawful, though I do not take Tithes. Mr P. You do take Tithes. Full. No Sir under favour, I never took Tithes since I came to this place. Mr P. You take in lieu of Tithes. Full. I. do, and that lawfully. Quak. Prove that to take Tithes in the time of the Gospel is lawful. Full. Tithes are lawful, because not forbidden: yea, they seem to be encouraged by Christ himself in the Gospel: ye Tithe, Mint, etc. and ye do well; therefore we do not ill to take them. Mr Tripe. But that was before the Law was abolished. Full. When was the Law abolished? Mr Har. All the Divines in the world, acknowledge that the Law was abolished at Christ's death: yea, I am mistaken, if I have not heard you say so yourself. Full. However, if this encouragement of Christ for Tithes be taken off: it rests to be proved, that the only Law for Tithes, was abolished in that Law which was abolished at Christ's death. Here, the Quaker was at a stand, and one of his Brethren was very earnest with him, to make him turn to the seventh of the Hebrews: which, with much a do, at length, he did. Qua. 'Tis abolished Heb. 7. 12 For, the Priesthood being changed the●e is made of necessity a change of the Law. Full. This Law and Priesthood is the Levitical Law and Priesthood: as vers. 11. Now you must prove, that Tithes was payable only according to the Levitical Law, and only unto the Levitical Priesthood; which, I think is too hard a task. I have two things wherewith to defend our taking of. Tithes against this verse; one of which, I am sure will hold. The first is, That we claim not Tithes by the Law of God, as it were commanded there; but by the Law of the Land: whereby we have as clear a title to our Tithes, as that Gentleman hath to his estate. 2. The second thing that I have to say, is, That you cannot prove by this Text, that the only Law for Tithes, in the Word of God is abolished. This very Chapter tells us, that Tithes were paid by Abraham (430 years) before this Law, which was now abolished: and that Christ, whose descent is not reckoned from Levi, is a Priesthood for ever after the order of Melchizedeck, who received Tithes, not by this Law; and who now liveth (vers. 9) to receive Tithes still, in Christ: though those that receive Tithes in Aaron's order, and the Law by which they did so receive Tithes, are both dead. So, that Tithes seemeth to be Christ's wages; then, those that stand in Christ's stead, and do part of Christ's work, as we do; why may they not claim part of Christ's wages, viz. Tithes? But, as before, I ingeniously confess, that I rather choose to make my claim thereto, by the Law of the Land which is without that controversy, wherein the Law of God (commanding this) is, indeed involved. Here also the Quaker had nothing to say; but a Brother of his, put him in mind of the beginning of Heb. 8. this is the sum: which he read, crying out, this is the sum: without replying any thing in particular to what had been said. One of the Company. I confess, I am not satisfied with what you have said about Tithes: me thinks, it is the worst money I lay out all the year. Full. It may be so: but what have you to say against it? You are I think a Neighbour. The same. I live within the jurisdiction of Malborough. Full. Pray come to me another time, and I will labour the best I can, in a private way, to give you satisfaction: only remember what I said: I claim not Tithes by a Divine, but by a humane Law; that is, the Law of the Land. Some of the Company. We grant you have a right unto them, by the Law of the Land: and so fare we grant Tithes to be lawful. Another. But 'tis not Tithes, but the tenth of the spoil that Abraham paid. Qua. I, thou must go look for thy Tithes of the Soldiers. Full. 'Tis called Tithes expressly; paid Tithes in Abraham. vers. 9 Mr John Tripe. 'Tis plain, they are called Tithes there. Another. But 'tis not commanded, he freely gave it. Full. The Text saith, he paid Tithes: and if it be granted me that Tithes are lawful to be paid in the time of the Gospel; I desire no more. Quak. The Quaker was silent here a while. But at length broke out as he used to do, thou hast acknowledged thyself a Hireling: and that he takes Tithes: and therefore he is a false Prophet. Full. Sir, you dare not look the Scripture in the face: go about to prove what you say from Scripture if you dare. I have proved that to take Tithes, is not unlawful: either by the Law of God or man. And again, I solemnly profess, that if my lawful Maintenance were utterly taken away, yet, I hope, I should preach as long as I have a tongue in my head. Qua. But thou abidest not in the Doctrine of Christ. Full. Show me wherein I fail: I challenge you to show me wherein, or say nothing; I have hitherto justified myself. Another. Wilt thou justify thyself? Full. I mean, so far as you charged me, I have justified myself. The same. But, thou saidst thou hadst justified thyself. Full. Alas, let any in the Company show me wherein I do amiss, and I shall give him hearty thanks: but if you charge me falsely, must not I justify, that is, clear myself? Quak. He taketh Hire, he acknowledgeth himself a Hireling, etc. Full. Why do you not go about to prove what you say? Qua. The Prophets prophesy falsely, and the Priests bear rule by their means: by their great means and riches; and the people love to have it so. Full. You see, good people, what a learned Teacher you have: the Priests bear rule by their means, that is, saith he, their great means and riches; when the weakest here, I hope knows, that by their means, is by their occasion. Mrs Pol. Here was silence for a while; Then Mrs P. came in and said to Mr Fullwood, what canst thou say for singing of Psalms, and sprinkling of Infants? Quak. Yea, what dost say to these things? Full. This question about Singing of Psalms, minds me of a passage in your discourse, which I challenge you to make good, you said that the Psalms were turned into English meeter by Fiddlers. That Thomas Sternhold and John Hopkins were Fiddlers. Sir, I believe, you are not worthy to wipe off the dust from their Tombs; prove them to be Fiddlers; you have no revelation from Heaven to slander the dead. Qua. Why were they not the King's Fiddlers? Full. Prove that they were. Quak. Doth not History say so of them? Full. What History? Quak. I will not tell now. Full. You will not. Quak. Prove thy sprinkling of Infants. Full. This is but to delude the people: you know, you deny all Baptism with water; and that you are, as much against the Anabaptists, as against us. Quak. However, it's required of thee, that thou prove the sprinkling Infants. Full. I never saw an Infant only sprinkled. Quak. Whether it be dipping or not, prove the baptising them. Full. Though it be very unreasonable, yet I will follow you. I shall prove the baptising of Infants, from four heads; Command: Example: Scripture-grounds: and the Analogy of Baptism to Circumcision. 1 From the Command, Mat. 28. I reason thus. We are commanded to Baptise all Nations; but Infants are a great part of all Nations; therefore we are commanded to baptise Infants: unless you can show some other place of Scripture to limit it to grown persons; limit not the holy One of Israel. One of the Company. Children are uncapable of Baptism. Full. That which you suppose, to make them incapable, doth not: therefore they are not uncapable. The same. What's that? Full. Faith, you say is required in Baptism, and that renders Infants uncapable thereof; but though faith be required, this doth not render Infants uncapable of Baptism: for Children were capable of Circumcision: and yet Circumcision was a Sign and a Seal of the righteousness of Faith. The same. Circumcision was a Sign, but no Seal. Quak. Circumcision was no Seal. Full. I think, you are not sure of it: we'll turn to the Text, Rom. 4. 11. And he received the Sign of Circumcision, a Seal of the righteousness of Faith. Qua. It saith not Circumcision was a Seal: Full. No, pray let's read the Text again: He received the Sign of Circumcision, a Seal, etc. Doth it not plainly say, that Circumcision which was a Sign, was a Seal also? Who denieth it? Another. But doth Baptism come in the room of Circumcision? Full. Yes: as is evident Col. 2. 11, 12. Ye are circumcised with the circumcision of Christ, buried with him in Baptism. Baptism, you see, is here called the Circumcision of Christ, or the Christian Circumcision: evidently intimating, that Baptism is come in the same place and use with Christians, which Circumcision had among the Jews. The same. The putting away the filth of the flesh answered to Circumcision. Full. True, Circumcision in the flesh answered to two things. 1. The Circumcision of the heart: This was also before Christ came. 2. The Circumcision of Christ, which is Baptism of the flesh, as well as the heart: as appears in this Text. Mr Tripe. Pray why do your people, while you read the Psalms, sit with their hats on: and when they sing the same Psalms, with their hats off. Full. I conceive (I say, I conceive because I would speak the truth) one reason hereof is, because while we read the Psalms, they suppose, we are speaking to them: and when we all sing together, they suppose we are all speaking more immediately to God? Mr Tripe. But how can you require the people to sing, when as the Psalms do not agree with their conditions; but they sing lies to God. Full. Do they not sing the Scriptures: and are the Scriptures lies? Mr Tripe. But what they sing agreeth only to God's people, and not to wicked men. Full. 'Tis their duty to sing, and not their sin; 'tis their sin only, that by their wickedness they are not fit to sing. They are not, we grant, such as their duty requires: but can any be so weak to think, that they are disobliged from their duty by their unfitness for it? We require them to do their duty: they shall answer it, if they either neglect it, or do it amiss. This was the substance of the debate. There were a few words passed about [thee and thou] which Mr Fullwood said might be proved from Scripture, to be sinful language: because the Scripture determines the controversy about indifferent 1 Cor. 11. 16. things, with an Argument from Custom. If any be contentious, we have no such custom, nor the Churches of God. Qua. See, he pleads for old Customs. Full. Sir, What I say I bring Scripture for; answer to Scripture. Qua. But are these words indifferent? Is Scripture-language indifferent? Full. This is but the translation; and it was indifferent for the translators, to have translated it you, or thou; the original will suffer either. Another. But do not we say thee to God? Full. Yes: Pray let me take occasion to mind you when these expressions [of thee and thou] have their use in Custom; namely in two cases. 1. In a way of great familiarness: as to our very intimates, or those much below us. 2. In a way of great reverence and distance; as to God and to a Prince, etc. But in neither of these senses do you use them. Qua. He dreams. Full. You answer nothing. There was no more offered to be said: but one went one way and another another. And Mr Fullwood having been sent for divers times; he went to the door, and there, desiring the people in a few words to take heed of such seducers, he went away, many following him. A Brief and Plain Answer TO JAMES GODFRIE'S QUERIES, ENTITLED; Some Queries to be answered by thee George Pitt, who professest thyself to be a Minister of Christ, but art found in the steps of the Pharisees, and hast not the Spirit of Christ, therefore the spirit of error. With some Counter-Queries to be answered by James Godfrey; thence arising. By F. F. UPon the Title of these Queries, I demand, How did this James Godfrey know, that Mr Pitt would not answer the following Queries according to his own mind? And whether, supposing Mr Pitt should return such an answer as James Godfrey would have him, he be yet possessed with a Spirit of error? Or whether he that erred in rash Judgement, did so err, by the Spirit of Truth? The Quakers first Query Thou that sayest Jesus Christ hath not enlightened every man which cometh into the world; what are those that have not heard? and can any hear except they be enlightened? and is the Apostle or thee to be believed, who said they have all heard? answer in plain words. The plain Answer. I know none that speak (what I suppose Mr Pitt is slandered with) so directly against the Scripture, as to say, that Christ hath not enlightened every man that cometh into the world: and whether all have heard or not, or who those are that have not heard, (as the Apostle doth not, so) neither this James Godfrey, nor any other man can tell: however, let him believe the Apostle before us, in what we say contrary to the Apostle. Yet, he himself implies, what we know certainly also, that England hath heard; and therefore, hath had Preachers, lawfully sent, before such as he is came to teach her: for how shall they hear without a Preacher, and how shall they preach Rom. 10. except they be sent? Counter-Queries to this first Querie. 1. Which way doth Christ enlighten every man! 2. Whether is hearing the means of enlightening, or enlightening the cause of hearing? and which is first? 3. Whether Christ doth not enlighten any but those that come into the world? and what shall we think of those that die in the womb? 4. Whether men are enlightened, as soon as they come into the world? or when? 5. Whether those that cannot hear, be enlightened, or not? what shall we think of deaf persons? if they be enlightened, are not more enlightened than do hear? if they be not elightned, how is every man enlightened? 6. Whether Christ may be said to be in all, because he enlightens all? 7. Whether all that are alive, came within the Apostle Peter's question, Have they not heard? 8. Where doth the Apostle say, that all have heard? answer thou in plain words. 9 If all that have heard are enlightened, whether our people had not heard, before you came amongst us? if not, then how had all heard? and if, then whether they were not enlightened before you came? and if so, what need had they of you? The Quakers second Querie. Whether the light that shines in the heart, doth not give the light of the knowledge of Christ, which enlighteneth every man that cometh into the world. The plain Answer. The light of Christ (as the Cause) shines in the heart, and gives the light of the knowledge of Christ, (as the effect) to every one that is enlightened therewith: and this light of the knowledge of Christ, by the light of the glorious Gospel in our despised Ministry, hath shone into the hearts of many of our people, before ever you came amongst them to eclipse and darken it. The Counter-Queries arising hence. 1. Whether the light that is in the heart of every man, shine in the heart of every man? and whether the understandings of those can be darkened in whose heart the light shines? 2. If so, Then how can it be said of any, that there is no light in them? or that they sit in darkness? or whether is Esa. 8. there any darkness at all in the world? or if there be, whether it be there where the light shines, in the hearts of men or not? or whether their darkness doth not comprehend the light, in whose hearts the light shines? 3. Whether light that shineth in the heart of every man, doth give the light of the knowledge of Christ to every man effectually? and whether every man that is in the world hath the knowledge of Christ? 4. Whether the light, which shineth in the heart of every man, is sufficient to give the light of the knowledge of Christ, without the Scriptures? if so, than what is the reason, that those that hear not of the Scriptures, do not know Christ? 5. Whether the Scriptures be not they (that is,) only they that testify of Christ? The Quakers 3d Querie. Is there any know the Truth, but they that know this Christ manifest in them? The plain Answer. Some do know the truth, that do not know Christ manifest in them. For, 1. Some do know the truth that have not Christ in them, and therefore, that do not know Christ to be in them, much less, manifest in them. Some do know the truth that do not walk in the truth; but Christ is not in those, that are unto every good work reprobate, and do not walk in the truth, Those that know their Masters will know the truth, but those that know their Masters will, may not do it. 2. Some may know the truth, and may have Christ in them, and yet not know that he is in them. If Christ, as you falsely conceive, be in every man, and some men, as this query supposeth, know not Christ manifest in them; then Christ is in some men that know not Christ manifest in them. And yet, such may know the truth, and believe in the truth and in Christ himself, and yet not know that Christ is in them, or that they are in Christ, the case of many doubting broken hearts. The Counter. Queries hence arising. 1. Whether there be no truth but Christ? or whether there be no truth of Christ, but Christ manifest within us? 2. Whether Christ crucified, or Christ ascinded, or Christ interceding at the Father's right hand, be not truths? or whether thus, Christ be not without us? 3. Or whether Christ be a mediator, advocate and sufferer for us, within us, or as manifest within us only? 4. Whether is the imputed merit and righteousness of Christ a truth, or not? or wrought within us only, and not without us? 5. Whether that light which is in every man be Christ or not? if it be, whether is Christ manifest in every man or not? and then, whether can any be ignorant of the truth, in whom Christ is manifest? if not, where is the ground of this Question, speak plainly without ambiguity or double dealing. The Quakers fourth Querie. Is there any other Christ the same yesterday, to day and for ever? and are not they reprobates that this Christ is not in? The plain Answer. There is no other Christ, but he that died for our sins according to the Scriptures, the same yesterday, to day and for ever; and they are reprobates that this Christ is not in. Yet Christ is another then what he is, as manifest in us. 1. He is the second Person in the Trinity, and as such he is not manifest within us: he is within us in his Spirit, who is said in Scripture, to be sent into us, by the Son, as well as by the Father, which is the holy Ghost, distinct in person to the Father and Son: therefore we read of three that bear record Mat. 28. in Heaven, the Father, the Word and the Spirit; and the Word with the Father is said to bear record in Heaven only, but the Spirit both in Heaven and earth. 2. Christ is man also, and as such he is not manifest in us; for, as man he is only in one place viz. in Heaven: thus he was seen on earth, thus he suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified, dead and buried, and risen again the third day: thus he ascended up into the Heavens, which are appointed to contain Act. 3. him, until the restitution of all things. To say that Christ is in every man, is to contradict the Scripture mentioned, which saith, he is not in reprobates. And to say, Christ is in every man, and yet to acknowledge he is not in reprobates is to contradict yourselves. Counter-Queries arising from this fourth Query. 1. Whether hath Christ any humane body out of his Church? Or whether hath he a real body in Heaven; or in Heaven only? 2. Is Christ any other than what he is as manifest in man? Or did he suffer and die, being out of all other men for our 1 Cor. 15. 1, 2, 3, 4. sins according to the Scriptures? 3. Had Christ the same body in the days of Abraham, that he had in the days of Herod? Answer plainly by the Scriptures. The Quakers 5th Query. How, and by what couldst thou have known there had been a Christ, and a Saviour, and a Mediator, if the Scripture had not spoken of them? Answer, or let thy silence acknowledge thy ignorance or natural knowledge. The plain Answer. Unless the Scripture had spoken of Christ, I could not have known that there had been any such Saviour, but by the revelation of God, Angels or men. Yet, neither Angels nor men could have revealed it to me, unless God (the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost) had first made it known unto them; So great 1 Pet. 1. a Mystery is God manifested in the flesh. Thus, Christ was at first revealed by God himself; otherwise he had never been known; which revelation being now written by holy men of God, moved by the Holy Ghost, is become Scripture; the only ordinary way of making known unto men this Jesus Christ without special revelation. Therefore, those that would now attain to the knowledge of Christ, must search the Scriptures, for they are they that testify of Christ. Natural light cannot discover him, neither may we expect new revelation, seeing the old is acknowledged to be sufficient. The Counter-Queries arising from this 5th Query. 1. Whether the light which is in every man, is able to discover Christ the Saviour, without the help of Scriptures? 2. Whether Angels have not as much natural light as men? And why then do they look down into the Church for the knowledge of the Mystery of Christ? 3. Whether Christ, Saviour, and Mediator, be different persons? If not, why then do you speak of [them?] 4 Seeing nothing but God by his own word, could reveal this Christ; Whether the Scripture which only speaks of Christ be not the Word of God? Let not your silence acknowledge your ignorance, or your Answer your error, in so great concernments. The Quakers 6 and 7 Questions. Hast thou the Spirit of Christ, yea or nay? Is the hope that is in thee Christ, yea or nay? I choose, rather to leave these two Questions for Mr Pitts his own plain Answer. The Counter-Queries hence arising. 1. Whether those that have the true light shining in their hearts, have not the Spirit of Christ? And whether all have not this true light shining in their hearts? And then, whether all have not the Spirit of Christ? And then, is it not strange if Mr Pitt want it? 2. Whether all that have the Spirit of Christ be not Christ's? 3. Whether Christ and hope be all one? If so, whether hope died for our sins according to the Scriptures? Whether hope be in Heaven contrary to 1 Cor. 13. Or Christ be not in Heaven contrary to Act. 3. 21. The Quakers 8th Query. Whether Christ and his Apostles meant, as they spoke? Or whether they left their words for Learned - men to give another interpretation of their words? Yea or nay. The plain Answer. Christ and his Apostles mean as they spoke: they left not their words for Learned-men to give another interpretation of them. Yet in their words, there are some things hard to be understood, which learned and stable men alone, can give the true interpretation of; seeing men unlearned, and unstable, wrist the Scripture, to their own destruction. 2 Pet. 3. 16. The Counter-Queries arising from this 8th Query. 1. Whether you have heard that any ever said, That Christ and his Apostles did not speak as they meant? If not, then what do you mean in speaking thus perversely? Or whether ever any said, that they left their words for Learned men to give another interpretation thereof? If not, Why do you so wickedly question and misinterpret the labours of Learned men? 2. What do you mean by Learned-men? Or what have you to say against true Learning, that comes not from ignorance or malice? The Quakers 9th Question. Whether he be a Minister of Christ, that is out of Christ's Doctrine? Yea or nay. The plain Answer. He that is wholly out of Christ's Doctrine, is not a Minister of Christ; but he may be a Minister of Christ, Gal. 2. 11. 12 that is partly out of Christ's Doctrine as Peter was. The Counter-Queries arising from this 9th Query. 1. Whether Christ's making satisfation for the sin of man is not the great fundamental Doctrine of Christ, both in the Law and Gospel? 2. Whether he that denieth this satisfaction of Christ, is not fundamentally out of Christ's Doctrine? 3. Whether those that hold that Christ came into the world but either to abolish the Ceremonies, or but to be an example of an holy life, doth not deny this satisfaction of Christ? 4. Then whether he be a Minister of Christ, that affirmeth, that Christ came into the world for no other end, but to abolish the Ceremonies a As the Quaker to Mr Timpson did. , or to be an example of an holy life b As Fox insinuates. ? The Quakers 10th Question. Whether is he in the Doctrine of Christ that stands in the chiefest place of the Assemblies? Yea or nay. The plain Answer. Some may be in the Doctrine of Christ that stand in the chiefest place of the Assemblies: as well as they in the Doctrine of God, that sat in Moses Chair. The Counter-Queries arising from this 10th Query. 1. What do you mean by being in Christ's Doctrine? Whether by holding it, or by obeying it? 2. May not he that stands in the chiefest place in the Assemblies both maintain and obey the Doctrine of Christ? and consequently be a Minister of Christ? 3. Whether may not he be a Minister of Christ that walks not in all respects, according to the Doctrine of Christ: as well as he a Minister of Moses, or rather of God, that sat in Moses Chair, and spoke the Word of God, though he said, and did not? 4. Whether do you call the Pulpit the chiefest place? If so, Whether, because it is the highest place? If so, Whether, he that stands upon a form or in a window above the rest of the people, stand not in the chiefest place in the Assembly? And whether such a one can be a Minister of Christ? Or no? The Quakers 11th Query. Whether is he a Minister of Christ that sprinkles Infants? yea or nay; and calls it an Ordinance of Christ, when there is no such Scripture? The plain Answer. The Baptising of Infants, is according to Scripture; wherein, Circumcision, a Seal, belonging to Infants, born in the Church, is taken away, and no other Seal is brought in the room thereof, for Infants now born in the Church but Baptism. The Scripture tells us plainly, that Baptism is the Christian Circumcision, or the Circumcision of Christ. Col. 2. 11, 12. With the Circumcision of Christ being buried with him in Baptism. The right of Infants to the first Seal, was never abolished, though the Seal indeed was changed, Circumcision Jewish, into Circumcision Christian, viz. Baptism. Circumcision being a Sign and Seal of the righteousness of Rom. 4 11. Faith, and Baptism being no more, and Infants being capable of Circumcision, they are also as capable of Baptism. children's state in the Covenant, was never repealed; their interest in the Promise, is still continued. Christ's love to Infants, and desire of Communion with them, is abundantly testified in the New Testament. Therefore the Seal of the Covenant and Promise, the pledge of Christ's favour, and the only mean of their Communion with him, viz. Baptism is not to be denied them. The Scripture certifieth that Baptism is an Ordinance of Christ: therein Christ commands it to all Nations; therein Christ never limited it to grown persons, or denied it to Infants: and they having a right before to that Ordinance, whose room Baptism supplies, they need no new Commission, to take possession of that, which is brought in the room of that, which before they had an undoubted right unto. The Counter-Queries arising from this 11th Query. 1. Whether such as despise the regeneration of water, can Joh. 5. 5. enter into the Kingdom of God? 2. Whether those are Christians that refuse Water-baptism? 3. Whether he be a Minister of Christ, that denieth Water-baptism? 4. Whether Water-baptism be an Ordinance of Christ? 5. Whether the application of it to Infants, doth make it no Ordinance of Christ? 6. Whether there were none Baptised with water, mentioned in Scripture after Christ's ascension? 7. Whether that be not the trick of a deceiver, to cry out against sprinkling Infants, when as he alloweth no water-Baptism at all. The Quakers Subscription. Without thy meaning, and private interpretations, answer these queries by plain Scripture, or let thy mouth be stopped for ever. The Question hereupon is, Whether by his own Law and reason, the mouth of this James Godfrey should not have been stopped, before he made these doting Questions; seeing they are not to be found in any plain Scripture, without his meanings and private interpretations? Postscript, containing an addition of the Quakers 12, and 13, Queries, viz. 12. Where is that light that John spoke of; the one he loved it, and brought his deeds to the light, the other hated the light, and will not bring his deeds to the light, because his deeds are evil? 13. Whether is that light, a blind fancy, that manifests sin and evil deeds? or whether is not he a deluder and a blasphemer, that calls it a blind fancy? The plain Answer. 1. The light which John spoke of is in the Gospel, and the Gospel-Ministry which you hate. 2. That light which manifests sin is not a blind fancy. But he that saith, that every light which manifests sin is a saving light; or that that light, which is in every man, is sufficient to discover and lead men to Christ, is under the darkness of his own fancy, having so far left, the true light, the word of God. James Godfrey, Speak forth the words of truth and soberness. Lean not unto thine own understanding. Be not wise above what is written. Be not wise in thine own conceit, rightly applying that of 1 Cor. 8. 2. the Apostle; He that thinketh he knoweth any thing, knoweth nothing yet as he ought to know. F. F. FINIS.