The Faithful NARRATIVE OF The late Testimony and Demand made to Oliver Cromwell, and his Powers, on the Behalf of the LORDS PRISONERS, In the Name of the Lord Jehovah (Jesus Christ,) King of Saints and Nations. Published by Faithful hands, Members of Churches (out of the original Copies) to prevent mistakes, and misreports thereupon. To the Faithful Remnant of the Lamb, who are in this Day of great Rebuke and Blasphemy, engaged against the BEAST and his GOVERNMENT, especially, to the New Nonconforming Churches, and Saints in City and Country, commonly called by the Name of Fifth Monarchy-men.  Numb. 16.5. 
Even to morrow the Lord will show who are his, and who is holy, and will cause him to come near to him, even him whom he hath chosen will he cause to come near to him: therefore take you Censers, etc.  Gen. 42.16. 
And ye shall be kept in Prison, that your words may be proved.  
Printed in the year 1654.   

To the little Remnant of the Lamb, against the Beast and his Government.  
Some may wonder what we mean (the meanest of all the flock) to be so public, and it may be our Dearest Brethren the Lords prisoners (at Lambeth, Windsor, and elsewhere) but they know Necessity (by experience) is the most absolute plea now up, and a prevalent Argument to all party's interest and purposes, good and bad (we wonder, the Heathens worship her for a Goddess, for she doth great things now adays too in England) but we leave the Heathenish Necessity, or Court craft-Principle, and to take up the Heavenly Necessity, or Conscience-Principle, which they explode; They themselves who use to create necessities for themselves, have created some for us too, by their ordinary (or rather extraordinary) disease amongst them, viz. the flux of words, and running Fistula of Lies, or blasphemies of abominable savour. Our faces blush, whilst our hearts turn within us, at the whorish Impudence and Imprudence of such politic State-Professours, who with their Stage-Devotion dare blaspheme the name of Christ, to make Lies their Refuge, as they do at this day. We had interded this following Discourse (for all us) should have lain a while in silence, had not some (who thought us and this fast asleep) sought to murder and cut the throat of the truth and of this Testimony, with their notoriously false and obliqne Reports; but that they may see the Truth, though like the two witnesses (for three years and a half) may lie for slain, yet) it shall rise again, and stand upon its feet, yea, in such a manner, (with life from God) as will put all the Time-servers to their trumps too, and throw this selfseeking Generation of pitiful Muck-worms, mercenary, carnal and Court affected professors into a panic fear, and ague- agony-fit, (ere long) but in the interim, Truth is sweet to us, (because it is Gods, not ours) and the more it is persecuted, we entertain it, and trust (through grace) to live and die with it, because the Kings (Christ's) image is upon it, (though Caesar's be not) nor will it take the gross impression of the present Army; for the metal is too good to take the stamp of Apostates; Therefore with all tenderness, candidness, and faithfulness, without respect to any one man more than another, and merely for the poore-persecuted Truths-sake, whose sighs and cries and groans and tears, (by reason of those unsupportable injuries, inhuman abuses, and violences offered her) have pierced our hearts, and prevailed with us (whether we will or no) or rather, we think, we may say, the spirit of Christ in us) to this faithful Publication those passages in Isa. 59.14 and 13,14,15,16. being often repeated in our minds, to wit, viz None calleth for Justice, nor any pleadeth for the truth, they all trust in vanity and speak lies, they conceive mischief, and bring forth iniquity, they batch cockatrice eggs and wove spiders webs, etc. In transgressing and Lying against the Lord, and departing away from our God, speaking oppression and revolt, conceiving and uttering from the heart words of Falsehood, and Judgement is turned away backward, and Justice standeth afar off: for truth is fallen in the street, and equity cannot enter, yea, the truth faileth, and be that departeth from evil maketh himself a prey, and the Lord saw it, and it displeased him, that there was no Judgement. And he saw that there was no man, and wondered that there was no intercessor, therefore his arm brought salvation unto him, and his righteousness it sustained him, etc. But besides other Reasons, should we be longer silent, the three following would fall foully upon us.  
1. For that some of Satan's Surrogates, the Court Pensioners and Pamphleteers have let fly many filthy lies and false reports, about City and Country, to possess them with prejudicated apprehensions and misinformations about us: For it is Machiavils principle and Court policy, as soon as their false reports are given against the truth by mercenary creatures, to second the charge, and make way for their Masters to fall upon the bones of the truth's Abettors and Fautors: This we find State-policy in all Histories and Ages, and the practice of proud Tyrants, Pedagogues, and persecutors; first, creating lies against the Saints, and then bringing them into sufferings (when once they had made them sufficiently odious, so that no eye might pity them) thus Isaiah was reported for a liar: Jeremiah a traitor; Daniel a rebel; Christ a blasphemer; Paul a pestilent fellow; the Apostles stirers up of sedition, and preachers of new laws and doctrine, and such as would subvert all Magistracy and Ministry, laws and Customs, and all then present: This principle and practice is revived again under this Government Nero like to inrobe the faithfullest of the assertors of the truth and testimony of Jesus with Bear-skins, then to bait them with their Mastiffs or Blood hounds; like men that will report their dogs mad, when they have a mind to hang them? so doubtless the lies raised against the poor Saints trampled upon and traduced (now) every where; especially, the Lords prisoners, Mr. Feak, M. Rogers, and others etc. are precursory to some base (if not bloody) design against them: Therefore it is, they give out, that they are railers, liars, stirrers up of sedition and tumults, enemies to Government, Magistracy, Ministry and Laws, and evil-doers, and what not? as Persecutors use to do of old: What is pretended against Mr. Rogers, may appear in what follows, who refused to make a full or formal reply without it were in an open Court by a just and legal trial, according to honest and known laws: Therefore (and for no other reason) as he declared to them, in our hearing; was it that he declined to Answer, and not because he was nonplussed, not able or afraid to answer, or the like, as the Court-creatures (who have made it their employment for some days to blaze lies about.) have most wickedly and untruly reported; but the truth is, they all seem to be given up over head and ears into strong lies and delusions: For sometimes they said he was too hold and played the Antic (like Caple) and at other times (to contradict themselves sufficiently) they said he was so pusillanimous, that he stood and trembled before them, and what not? etc. Now although it is notoriously known (by us and others) that they are all most gross forged untruths, and Court devices, fetched from the Father of lies, who is now more busy than ever, against the Lords faithful ones, to render them odious and obnoxious; yet not with any desire to vindicate his or their persons, for we commend them to the God of truth, in whose eyes, we (and thousands, we think, we may say in England) are persuaded they are very precious, their God who is the Saints refuge especially, when they be in sufferings, prisons, persecutions, or the like for them; they must look to lie under the lash of all men's tongues almost; and no wonder if Mr. Rogers do now more than ever (by the great man himself, as well as by his creatures) since that day of his Appearance before him suffer so much: But the great God that heareth prayers for him and his, suffering brethren will (doubtless) deliver them, avenge them of their Adversaries, and judge righteously (as Psal. 37.6.) to bring forth their righteousness as the light, and their innocency as the noon day; with a daniel's Answer, cap. 6.2. My God bathe sent his Angel and shut the Lion's mouths, that they have not hurt me: Forasmuch as before him innocency was found in me; yet we say, for the truth's sake, lest the testimony should suffer, We shall and must Declare against that Generation of liars and deceivers (as Apostates use to be) who go about, and spread abroad false reports of the ways and People of God (by Letters, messengers or Pamphlets) purposely to poison poor people withal (knowing the advantage they have by our forced silence; seeing we are not suffered to print, or any other ways publish the truth for ourselves:) If it were not lawful to commit Fornication with the Moabites, to draw them to the true Religion; or if it be unlawful to steal to relieve the poor; it is much more unlawful by lies, obloquys or blasphemies to win the poor people to their false way. Wherefore in love to the Lord Jesus, and this his blessed testimony now up, we bring the truth of the whole Matter of the discourse to light; whereat none we hope will be offended, but those that love darkness rather than light, because their deeds are evil, John 3. For the honest Tradesman is content to have his Wares carried into the Sun from a dim shopboard.  
2. It is (and hath been but) now more than ever (since the Court-glosses have been printed and published upon it) the earnest desire, expectation and indeed Call of many of the Saints, to have as true a Narrative of the late Testimonies as we could publish; but seeing as Jer. 9.3. saith, None so valiant for the truth (whileft the wicked Apostates proceed from evil to evil) and knowing no other are so well accommodated to undertake it, as some of us, who were either ear witnesses or Writers hereof, we reso've to publish it, and therefore have compared the papers together that were taken in Characters, and have given this account, which we believe is as well taken as could be in such a crowd, and among such interruptions, confusions and disturbances; we do not say to every individual word, point, or circumstance, but in all the material passages, to the best of our knowledge, observation, or remembrance.  
3. It is of some concernment to all the Remnant of the Woman's seed, in City and Country, to know how far the Remnant in London, with this Testimony of Jesus, and 'Cause have gone and are engaged, and how high it is got up now, and what kind of Esau-like Spirit it is that opposes it) which you may see in the History following, by the variety of passages, providences, and occurrences) and who knows, but it may a little warm them that are cold, and enliven them that are dead; and stir up them that are drowsy, and comfort them that are drooping, and unite them that are differing, and encourage them that are fainting, whether in Churches, or out, in the Countries, to consider their work also at this day, and what it is the Lord calls them to, (with their poor Brethren that now suffer in the three Nations) for the Lord Jesus and his Cause against the Mighty, left they also (by their sleepiness and silence) incur the curse, Judges 5.26. which God forbidden! for these and many other reasons are we stirred up to this Narrative, seeing as Ahab did send for Michaiah (2 Chran. 18.) to see if he would say, Go up and prosper, as his own Prophets did say to him, and as Ahab said, v. 15. I adjure thee say nothing but the truth, which when he said he would not suffer, but said (as v. 25.) carry him back, put this fellow in prison and feed him with the bread of affliction, so also was Mr. Rogers remanded to his Bonds in Lambeth, with more Severity than before too.  
Neither are we without our Temptations in this little business for the Lamb; some of which that have assaulted us, arise from fear of giving offence, but when we considered our Call, that was soon quelled, because offence is taken, and not justly given by us herein, seeing we are commanded by God's word to remove the stumbling block (of Lies) out of our Brother's way. We had a holy Jealousy over our own spirit, till we had tried them by God's word, and the Primitive practice of Saints, Apostles, Prophets and holy Men, inspired by the Holy Ghost, who ever spoke and writ boldly in the name of the Lord for the Truth, Jam. 5.10, and who are our example. We consider how eagerly our enemies would gape for Advantage against us, should they find the least mistake, and possibly they will find many for as there is no pen, so there is no man without Erratas; yet for the Truths-sake (so far as the Copies taken in short hand, and our friends have agreed in one, though we confess, it cannot be published so exactly as we could wish, seeing we met with so much interruption as we said before) the Lord knows we have been as faithful and impartial as we could  our lives, and we bless our gracious Father, we fear not what Flesh can do unto us, as long as the Lord is with us, and on our side, and as long as we can claim protection from Jehovah our King by Covenant, interest, privilege and propriety (however some censure that sit at Stern, as if we were ignorant of the Covenant of grace, they shall find it other wise by the grace of our God, ere it be long) in the mean time an honest Jury man would rather have brought in an Ignoramus, than an unjust and wicked verdict, but we will wait with patience, till the Lord appear to deliver us, and till than we apply Psal. 60.4. Thou hast given a banner to them that fear thee, that it may be displayed because of the truth, Selah! Besides we do not (as the Court-Christians) set our Dial by the Clocks of the time, (for so both would go false) but rather set the Clocks that (strike now adays) by the Dial's of truth, and according to the Testimony of good Consciences, and then the Sun that is now risen with glorious rays, lustre and appearance (in this age) will show us the time of the day, and what we have to do (like the Children of Issachar, 1 Chron. 12.32.) to keep all True, and to make the Clocks and Dial's to centre in one period of hour and time. As Christ our Sun appears, we hope to appear with him, and to rise with him, and shine with him, and sit with him on thrones, to Judge those that have and do Judge us every day, Judas 14, 15. Rev. 20.4. though this be their day, yet we are sure to have our day to Judge them, and then that question (they are so crank in) shall be put out of question, viz. whether we are busybodies in other men's matters, that Christ and his Messengers have nothing to do with, or in Christ's matters, that all true Christians have and aught to have to do with, all that are followers of the Lamb, and for which matters of Christ and all Saints against the Beast, our dear Brethren are so barbarously abused, persecuted, plundered and imprisoned, and for which we with them (through the grace of our Lord Jesus) are resolved to stand, whether by life or by death: And this we are sure of by experience (however they unworthily censure us, as a blind man would not believe there was a Sun, because he saw it not, though some effects might have convinced him, so some effects (we hope in the Lord) shall lere long convince them, that we suffer for the pure Testimony of a good conscience, and merely for Christ and his Interest, and not for any man, Men, Thing or Interest whatsoever that is on Earth.  
This conscience feasts us (with very excellent viands from above, which we believe no caterer in the Court can provide their Great Masters withal, but theirs is like to have but sour Sauce, though it be out-landish-like, as when Surgeons open the dead bodies of Epicures, they find many indigested crudities; so will the Ancient of days (ere long) when he sits to anatomize, dissect and rip up their Consciences, find many a foul crudity, viz. the skulls, blood and bones of thousands of the Saints to stick there; But the Lord have mercy upon them (for the Plague is begun) if they be not past recovery or true Repentance: But if they be, than the Righteous, and Holy just God, who is our God will appear against them and their interest speedily, powerfully and effectually, according to all the Faith, Tears, and Appeals of his poor Worm Jacob, in whose hand we believe will be the New threshing Instrument, visibly are long. And then this contemptible testimony, or course Barley-Cake of Truth, will tumble from the Gideon Camp, and smite down all their Tents, according to the Faith, and Prayer of Christ's and his poor Remnants, despised Servants,  
To do or to suffer, to live or to die, with them; in this most glorious, though clouded, precious, though Persecuted Cause of CHRIST JESUS. 

Hur Horton,  
Christopher Crayle,  
Hugh Day,  
Edward Grove,  
John Pugh,  
John Durden,  
Samuel Bradley,  
William Bragg,  
William Medley,  
Francis Young,  
James Wilson,  
Daniel Ingoll,    
List up a Banner upon the high mountain, exalt the voice unto them, shake the hand that they may go into the Gates of the Nobles. I have commanded my sanctified one's: I have also called my mighty ones; for mine anger, even them that rejoice in my Highness.  Isa. 13.2,3.  

A faithful Narrative to the faithful Remnant round the Nation, the new Non-conformist-Churches, and Saints in City and Country, that go under the name of fifth Monarchy-men.  
THE Hope we have of fair weather arises from the Rainbow in the Cloud, though the Cloud be black, the Sun is up, and looks ●ull upon it, which hath produced divers colours, & put the poor Saints hard upon faith, groans and prayers to make up that tremendous Judgement, and dreadful Thunderbolt that must fall out of this black Cloud (and which gins to rattle already) over the heads of the present Persecutors, as Rev. 4. and the 5. From the throne of the Lamb goeth thunders and voices, so in Chapter 8 and the 5. The Angel cast the Censer (for he was before the throne) full of fire and incense, (viz. the Faith and Prayers of the poor persecuted Saints) into the earth, and there were voices and thunderings, and lightnings, and an Earthquake, chap. 16.18. and 19.6. and it is well known the new Non-Conformists round the nation, are at it day and night, etc. filling this Censer full, and before the Throne, giving the Lord no rest; and though many have been as dead as dry bones, yet they begin to gather Sinews apace now, and are like (may we speak it without Alaraming the New Court) to be an exceeding great Army, for the witnesses are warm and begin to stir, and benumbed senses by use get life apace, so that the Remnant of the woman's Seed, are like to have their hands full. Ere long, and long they think it, among them are those despised one's of the Lord, that walk in fellowship with Mr. Rogers, now prisoner for the Testimony of Jesus at Lambeth, who after several solemn days, and whole nights, did find it a present duty incumbent upon them (and preparative to future) to go to Whitehall, (the revived Court) and demand the Lords prisoners, and bear their Testimony against these in present powers, for their gross sins and Apostasies, which the whole Body agreed unto, (not one dissenting) with a loud Suffrage of Joy and alacrity, blessing the Lord that they should be honoured by the Lord Jesus, as to be called to this Testimony, for his suffering Truth, and Saims at this day.  
They sought the Lord earnestly two whole nights herein, though the first night they were disturbed by some rude, abusive Ruffians, that seemed Zealots for their Protector, they roughly handled, scurrilously miscalled and abused some of the Brethren, that they hurried them away from Prayer, to prison, (for night-prayers are reputed dangerous and disturbful to the Court interest, yet for all that they kept another night, to have directions from the throne in the management of so high and noble a Message, and that they might not in the least dishonour the dear name of the Lord Jehovah, nor the cause and Kingdom of Jesus Christ, that now suffers: So, after they found much of God's presence, and many sweet promises to apply, and concluded unanimously upon the number of twelve, which is the Lamb's number against the Beast, and the Root and square number of the hundred forty four thousand, in Rev. 14.) to deliver the Message in trust to Oliver Cromwell in person, in the name of the great Jehovah; and now that God alone might have the choice of the men, another time was appointed to seek the Lord, and then they all agreed to take their Call by Lot given in the name of the Lord; so that after solemn looking up to heaven, the Lot was given from the Lap, Prov. 16.33. and the 18.18. and fell upon twelve: but (to observe the Lords wisdom) those that they in their wisdom should probably and principally have pitched upon for parts, utterance and abilities, were (by the Lords Let) put by; yet this appearing so undeniably to be of God, the same twelve were fully satisfied, and accepted their Call, afterward they agreed to go (every one with his Bible in his hand) upon the Message of the Church, accordingly upon the 29 of the eleventh Month, a solemn day of Prayer was kept, and they were sent out in the name of the Lord Jesus, the Contents of the Message with which they were entrusted, is; as followeth.   

THE MESSAGE OF THE CHURCH To O. C. by the Twelve.  
WE are sent unto you (twelve of us) in the name of our Lord Jesus, 
The Message of the Twelve Brethren.  and of that Church Society whereof Mr. Rogers (now prisoner for the Lord Jesus at Lambeth) is overseer (in the holy Ghost) although we be poor despised worms, and the weakest and unworthiest of the Lords Number, or of the Body to which we are related, and although we be not so able to speak, as others of our Society might have been, yet after much seeking the Lord to be with us, and trusting in the strength and name of our Lord Christ, by which we are come out this Day, after the Seal of some promises upon our spirits in the strength of the anointing) we are (as well as the Lord shall enable us) come to deliver our Message to you from the Lord, and that,  
First, Because the Lot of the Lord is cast upon us, 
The Reasons.  (above others.)  
Secondly, Because the Lord hath chosen the poor, and most despised things to confound and appear against the wise and great ones of the world, 1 Cor. 1.27.  
Thirdly, Because we are bound to sympathize with the Saints in Bonds, Heb. 13.3. in the defence of the Gospel, Phil. 17.14. and the Apostle blames them that stood not by him in his bonds, 1 Tim. 4.16, but we are resolved (by the grace of our God) to own and stand by these our Brethren, the faithful Servants of the most High, and true and faithful Ministers of Jesus Christ, who are now persecuted and imprisoned by you and your Powers.  
Fourthly, Because the Primitive Saints, who had a Primitive spirit (which we pray for, and are in daily expectation of) spoke boldly in the name of the Lord, Jam. 5. and the 10. and so must we to you, in the plainness, foolishness and simplicity of the Gospel, without any Politic, studied, or artificial frame of words or expressions after the wisdom of the world, or the Princes of the world, 1 Cor. 2.6.8, 2 Cor. 2.17. therefore it is, we dare not give flattering titles to any man (whose breath is in his nostrils) Job 32.21, 22. nor come we to make our petition to man (but to God we do) in these matters of our Faith and Consciences, 
Nota.  for which we contend this day, and for which our dear Brethren are cruelly imprisoned at Lambeth (meaning our Brother Rogers) and Windsor (meaning Mr. Feak.)  
1. Wherefore in the name of our Lord Jesus, and of that whole Society, who have entrusted us on this errand, we are to DEMAND the Lords prisoners, those prisoners of hope at Lambeth and Windsor, as due to Christ and his Churches, whom ye have so unchristianly rend and torn from us, (we meaning the Churches) and neither we nor they know for what to this day, but we are persuaded, 
The Testimony. In the prison Mr. Feak, Mr. Rogers Mr. Spitle-house. Col. Overton Col. Alured. Adj. Gen. Allen. with many others  it is for their Faith and Conscience in the truth and Testimony of Jesus Christ, against the foul Apostasies and sins of the times in professors, whether in Powers, Priests, Armies or others, that have cast off the true Cause and Interest of Christ, and have taken up the Creatures instead thereof, which can never stand. This demand we make according to Isa 42.22.2 Chron. 28.11.  
2. And lastly, (though we never yet did it in public, yet) so long as you go on thus, we dare not but join with our* suffering Brethren (viz. in what prisons soever) for their Consciences, and this Cause of Christ, and declare and testify against you (and the rest; that adhere unto you, whether in Power or out) so long as you are the Enemies of Christ and his Cause at this day, which we must do with the words of truth and sobriety; 
Since that M. Gen. Harrison, Col. Courtney, Col. Rich. M. Chary, imprisoned the 16 day of this Month, besides all in other country's, and Scotland those there that are like to lose their lives by bloody Trials, all these with many others suffering at this day for & with the Testimony of a good conscience against men that have betrayed the cause of Christ: Others have been imprisoned, as Mr. Vavasor Powel, Mr. Jo. Simson, Col. Okey, etc.  for the Lord will rend you, and all up by the Roots, that are not plants of his own planting, and the great God will appear (ere long) to confound and destroy this spirit of persecution, injustice and Tyranny, which the poor (Nonconforming) Saints feel so sorely, and we pray you consider that of Asa, 2 Chron. 16. though a good man, and a great General, and Conqueror, when once he forsook the Lord, relied on an arm of Flesh, and began to imprison the Lords Prophet, the hand of God was against him, (and so on others) and so will his wrath be upon you, and those that belong to you, if you go on thus, and if God give you not a true and timely repentance of these great sins which cry (day and night) for vengeance against you, and yours, and so do thousands of the poor persecuted Saints (however you are made to believe) therefore we pray you see (if you will yet keep the Captives of the Lord) Jer. 50 33, but mark it v. 34. so Isa. 29.20.21. Psal. 102.17, 20, 21. Psal. 37.32, 33.34. Psal. 79.11. and saith Christ, What you did unto these, you did unto me, and Acts 9 Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me; so fee in Matth. 18.28, 30, 34. see v. 35. Isa. 49, 24, 25. Mal. 2.11, 12. Now to conclude, the day of Christ is at hand, which will set them free, and will (ere long) call you, and all about you to Judgement, for all these things that you have done, and suffered to be done against the Lord Jesus and all his Saints, and for all the blood of the Saints that hath been shed against this Interest, and these evil things, which you have set up again, to the Joy of the wicked, the grief of the godly, and reproach of pure Religion and undefiled; This is the sum of our Message, which we are sent to deliver to you in the name of the Lord, and whether you will hear, or whether you will forbear, we leave it with you, and to your conscience, before God the Righteous Judge of heaven, and earth.  
After long waiting, they obtained access, and all Twelve being present together, one, (as the mouth of them) delivered the message, but the word DEMAND would not go down well, but the Lord Cromwell told them, that Mr. Feak and Mr. Rogers suffered not for conscience, but as evil-doers and busy bodies in other men's matters. One of the Twelve then said, if so, why were they not tried by some known and just law, and convicted for evil doers, but to keep them there in so long and cruel Imprisonment, without showing cause, was contrary to God's law, and the just laws of men, besides, they were sick, and weakly men; but he said he would put it to an Issue upon Friday or Tuesday (as he said) Mr. Rogers should be brought before him: On the sixth day of this twelfth Month, being the third day of the week, the Brethren and sisters (many of them) of the Society met together, (and with much difficulty) got into the prison to pray with Mr. Rogers, which they continued till between three and four of the clock, and then they were called away by the Gaoler to go to White-Hall, according to his Lord Protectors Order; so that in the name of (another) the Lord Protector of heaven and earth, the great Jehovah (whose face they had so solemnly and so often sought for his presence with them) Mr. Rogers set out of Lambeth, along with Harding his Keeper, 
Febr. 6. last 1654.  and the rest from the Church-society (twenty Brethren being the most) going along with him, much rejoicing as they went (according to Acts 5.41.) that they were so honoured to be called before men, for the Name, Faith, and Cause of Jesus, and when they came to Whitehall Bridge, others of the dear Saints of several Churches, waiting with tears and prayers, and acclamations, partly of joy, and partly of grief to receive him, and with an unamimous Suffrage, and signal tokens of love to him, and to this blessed Cause he suffers in, they prayed the Lords presence to accompany him; so we passed by, and Mr. Rogers was by his Keeper carried into the Chamber hard by the Council Chamber, but the Keeper only had admittance into the long Gallery, to give notice, that the Prisoner was there, but by and by he came out again, and told Mr. Rogers and his friends, that they must all go down again, and go through the Guard chamber, but Mr. Rogers answered that was strange, being come so near, where the Great Man was, they must now go down to go through the Guard Chamber, and about again, but the Keeper answered, they must do it, he had order for it, which he did, not in the least resisting, but the main end was as they found afterwards, to try whether they were sword-proof or no: So by force, Mr. Rogers and his friends were carried the other way, back again through the Guard-Chamber, many other people flocked about them, the Keeeper going foremost, Mr. Rogers (and his wife next to him) and his friends following close after him, until they came up to the Guard Chamber-door, immediately was the word of Command given to the Guard, who assoon as they saw them and us coming in, fell foully upon us with their swords, and their Halberds, saying, 
The harsh usage of the poor, persecuted fisth Monarchy-men.  Keep back, Keep back, to which Mr. Rogers answered with all his heart he would go back, (but his Keeper would not let him) we also said, if they would give us liberty we would go back as fast as we could, but they wruld not hear us, but fell upon us with a word and a blow, slashing and striking in a most violent manner, calling us Rogues, damned Rogues, and evacuating the most venomous words in their bellies, etc. but we told them, not one of us had a weapon, but the Bible, (in their hands some had) and so we told them, but some said, the sword of the Spirit would be too hard for them one day, which occasioned them to be the more violent, who struck (to choose) at their Bibles, hands, and heads, and so followed them, sighting, slashing and beating the poor, naked Christians all the way into the Court again, and there laying about them too, and saying they cared not for their Bibles, still inculcating, insulting, and calling us damned Rogues, and cursed dogs, and the like, but Mr. Rogers, and two or three more were shut in among their swords, whiles the rest of the brethren were kept without in the Court, and did with very much patience bear all their rail, reproachings scoffs, scorns, flouts, jeers and injuries, offered them all the while by the Soldiers, and others of the Court-creatures, in the mean time Mr. Rogers, with two or three more, were brought into the Chamber of Henry the eighth, where were many Gentlemen of the Court complexion; some excusing the aforesaid violence and assault, saying it was by accident, to which he answered, he conceived it not, but that it was rather a plot, and for aught he knew, there might be a design to murder some or other, for the word was given to fall on, and it is conceived by most, that they did it on purpose to raise us to a mutiny, that so they might have had (at least in appearance or pretence) some (or a more) Just Cause against Mr. Rogers and his friends in Church fellowship with him, for the Guardians confess they did but as they were commanded. Whilst some were excusing this affront put upon Christ and his persecuted Churches, others said it was good enough for us, and it was pity we were not worse used than we were, Mr. Rogers in the interim was talking with others, and two of the Guard told him how sorry they were their fellows were so rough, and drew their swords, slashing so fiercely, and what a mercy it was, no more mischief was done, seeing they had the command given them to do what they did, and that it was the readiness of some amongst them against us, especially the outlandish.— There was a short discourse between Mr. Rogers and some others.  A.S. 
Why did you come up there?  Mr. R. 
We were sent for, and commanded to come; yea, brought by force upon you, 
Nota.  and by your Master's Command, who fell a slashing us with your swords, so that it is probable, it was a Design against us on purpose; else why should peaceable men, that had no kind of weapons in their hands (or about them) without sword or stuff, but only the Bibles with us poor naked men, and women be forced (by Order and command to come before your Master) and be thus abused, affronted, slashed and driven into dangers, but the Lord is righteous who will judge!  W.F. 
But why came you with so many?  Ro. 
We were sent for and commanded, and those that came are Christians, and Church-members, no ways uncivil or disor●drly.  A.S. 
Well, it's well it was no worse!  Ro. 
It was the Lord that made it so, 
For so it was to to the late King and his court when his Messengers, and Guard-men fell upon the Citizens with their swords at the gate, there was his blood shed.  in whose name we came, and he hath delivered us from your Fury, and the rage of the sword, for they struck with rage, fury and high purpose, to do more mischief than they did, but it is Heb. 11. By faith they obtained promises, escaped the edge of the sword, etc. and so-have we escaped Yours. (though some do bear the mark, but the Lord Jesus will reward them when he comes.)  
And you see Gentlemen, your sword cuts bluntly, and doth little execution upon the poove fifth Monarchy men, though they be but naked, and unarmed, and it may be, this business will be ominous to you in this place.  A.S. 
We wonder to see so many women, and what they meant.  Ro. 
And are ye so fearful? It may be, it is true than what we hear, that the barking of a dog lately (running about the yard) gave you a very great alarm, seeing the sight of a few women hath frighted you so pitifully, as to draw your swords upon them and hurt them: alas poor hearts! you are pitifully affrighted it seems! what would you have done then at the sight of weapons, if a few white aprons makes you fly to your swords and Halberds;  
but by and by came a Gentleman Messenger to Mr. Rogers, saying, that his Lord was at leisure to speak with him, but the Keeper at the door suffered none to go in with him, save whom they listed. One of the Twelve that was sent for, going in with Mr. Rogers, a Guard-man standing by, took him by the shoulders in a very Hostile manner, and tore his cleak off his back, and abused him, but Mr. Rogers, and three or four more, went into the Chamber where their Great Master was, to whom some of his Court-Sycophants had told such tales, as they used to do, to justify themselves, and complained first, which is the Machiavillian Policy, and Principle, as if we had intended a tumult, which was a thing our souls abhorred, and a most impudent untruth, for there was not one had a weapon or staff with them, or spoke one uncivil word; but after Mr. Rogers, with three or four more were brought into the Room by Sergeant Dendy, the Great man had with him two Gentlemen more, who stood by the fireside, and a Pistol lay prepared at the Window, where he himself at first was, than he came to the fireside in great Majesty, without moving or showing the least civility of a man, though all stood bare to him, and gave respect; by and by he spoke, and bid one call in two or three more of the Church-Saciety, or of the Twelve that had been with him before, when the DEMAND was made; whiles they were gone for them, saith he,  O.C. 
I sent for some of you; Mr. Rogers and some more of the Church, but you bring with you about 250 men to make tumults and rise; therefore send them away, or I will not speak one word,  
to which Mr. Rogers answered, and to give him a civil respect, said my Lord,  Ro. 
You are ruled much by informations which you take upon the reports of them about you, whether true or fulse, which brings the Lord's people into so much trouble by you, but there is no such matter.  O.P. 
Hi! You will talk I see, although it be nothing to purpose, who speaks to you! with that he turns to one of his Creatures, saying, What say you, is there not so many?  
Servant, His Servant answered yes, and it please your Highness, there's above 100 below, and it is to be feared, they might have made a Tumult.  Ro. 
If they must be believed, they must, yet this I may say, I think there are not thirty men that belong to us, and besides, they are all peaceable Christians, related to us in the Faith of the Gospel, all unarmed, apprehending your order and command to reach them, and they are only those with us, as have been this day together, seeking the face of the Lord, and now according to your Order at four a clock attending here.  
But by this time Company was coming in apace into the room, 
The Room fills with the Courtiers.  at both doors, but all were Court-Creatures, to the number of fourscore or more (as we conceive) either of the Council, Army men, Lawyers and Counselors, or of his Creatures that were his Ministers, or new made Gentlemen, or the like, but not one of them related to Mr. Rogers, or that Church-Society, till at last with much ado, two or three more were crowded in of them, but all the rest were left waiting below in the Yard, abused, scoffed, hissed and whooted at by some of the Soldiers, as will appear by and by.  O.P. 
I promised to send for you, 
He gins his long Speech with manifest reproaching, and manifold untruths.  for some of your friends came and spoke sharply to me, as it I had Apostated from the cause of Christ, and persecuting godly Ministers, naming Mr. Rogers, and Mr. Feak, and spoke other things that were sharp enough, you might have had patience in your words.  
Now you have liberty to speak to those things, but do not abuse your liberty, you told me Mr. R. suffered son the Gospel, I told you he suffered as a Railer, s a Seducer, and a Busy Body in other men's matters, and a stirrer up of sedition, which Rulers (led by just principles) might suppress, I told you Mr. Rogers suffered justly, and not for the Testimony of Jesus Christ, and indeed in some degree it is Blasphemy, to call suffering for evil doing, suffering for the Gospel, and if he suffers for Reailing, and despising those that God hath set over us, to say this his sufferings ● for the Gospel, is making Christ the Patron of such things, but if it were suffering for the Gospel, something might have been said, yet not so much, as saying uncharitably, he suffered for evildoing, so that I say, this is the thing in Scripture, and if we show you, that you suffer for transgression, than you abuse that Scripture which I have often thought on, that it is to make a man an offendor for a word: I wish it were better understood in the plainness of the spirit, for to interpret that Scripture, it was the evil of those times, 
And is it not the evil of these Times? so that he is condemned out of his own mouth, as in Luk. 19.22.  which was to he in wait for words on purpose to catch at words without actions, and that is a fin, but some words are actions, and words are conjugal with actions, for actions and words are as sharp as swords, and such things I charge you with, and you suffer not for the testimony of Jesus Christ; I speak, God is my witness, I know it that no man in England, does suffer for the Testimony of Jesus 
* It seems when he said so, be called God to witness, M. Rogers tiffed up his hand and his eyes, appealing to witness also, at which Posture he was offended.  nay do not lift up your hands and your eyes, for there is no man in England which suffers so; there are those that are far better than Mr. Rogers, though comparisons are not good, and not near his principles, yet if they should suffer for the Testimony of Jesus: But there is such Liberty, I wish it be not abused, that no man in England suffereth for Christ, and it is not your Fancy, you must bring strong words to acquaint me of your sharp expressions.  
After he had spoke, and all were silent, Mr. Rogers desired to know of him whom he expected to reply, whether himself or some other, the answer to, who would.  Rogers, 
Do you expect me to answer, I will promise this before I speak further, I have been twenty seven weeks a prisoner, my (brother Feak above a year) and there hath been no Charge against me; but now I am brought before you, I desire to know in what capacity I stand before you, as a Prisoner, or as a Freeman, as a Christian to a Christian with equal Freedom that others have, or as a slave.  O P. 
A Prisoner is a Free man, as Christ hath made you free, and so you are a Free man.  Ro. 
It's true indeed (my Lord) and yet I must say, as some Gentlemen here present know I did before I was imprisoned) and when they would have had me meet in Colemanstreet to discourse our Principles, upon which we suffer) that it is unreasonable to desire it at the disadvantages we meet with, seeing they who are our Antagonists have the advantage of a Law new made, 
Mr Rogers told him, that Ordinance making Treason for words was such us Q. Mary herself (as bloody as she was) would abhor, as appears in Hollinshed in the 1. year of her reign, which made their Tyranny worse than the Roman Tyranny.  which they call an Ordinance of Treason, (to lash us with) as a Master hath his rod in his hand over-awing his Schoolboys, so that it is a very unjust and unequal thing, that they should speak as Free men, and we as slaves, under an over-awing: but if that Law be repealed, though but pro tempore, during such debates, and we be restored to our just and equal liberty with the Adversaries, so as to engage on even ground, we are ready to argue it with them, when and where they will, but till than it is unreasonable, for every word we speak, may be a snare to us.  O P. 
I know not what snare may be in this— Are you so afraid of Snares? what need you fear, that will speak so boldly?  Ro. 
I bless the Lord, I fear them not, nor the force of any men or Devils in these matters of my Faith and Conscience, for which I suffer, yet I should be loath to run into Snares, which Disputes have been to the people of God; for Stephen Acts 6. before he was tried for his life, he was first ensnared by Disputes, and then brought to the Council, tried and arraigned for his life, and they murdered and destroyed him: and in Queen Mary's days, before they put any to death, they begun it cunningly with ensnaring discourses in the Convocation-house, and so gathered matter to take their lives away, and murder them.  O P. 
You are afraid of Snares and advantages taken for your life, when there is no such thing, but I tell you upon your Friends Petition I sent for you to satisfy them, that you suffer, as an evildoer.  Ro. 
Say you so (my Lord) that is more than ever I heard before, nor dare I take this liberty upon that account of Petitioning, for it, but that I believe the Lord will help me by his own Spirit to answer, as indeed I have not studied a Form of words for you, though you have prepared Matter 
* That they seemed to do all this in justice, and by appeal and free Courts. At this they were next and look on one another.  against me (I hear) but I am in the strongth of the anointing) ready to answer. 
O. was troubled at that word, and said Preparation ha'! what? but it is well known what for several days were the Informations (some lay on the Table) a gathering against him, and the prisoners (put in for plotting) had by one Measie a Charge to get all their papers read upon the 30. day of the 11. month last, who were very busy to get them, and are we bear a gathering more; for when Mr. Rogers is forced to preach out at the Window to the Members of the Church, and those that come to bear him, these wicked and bloody beastlike men, have liberty to come into a room under him to write what they can catch or forge, or patch together, though all the week long they are in an other room, at the further end of the house day and night singing, swearing, ranting, drinking, fiddling, blaspheming day and night, to go out in the night, yea without a Keeper, to carry on the design.   O.P. 
Ab we know you are ready enough.  Ro. 
Yea, although I have made no other preparation, than Faith in the promises (however some may scoff at them) yet I have (I bless the Lord) the comfort of them, and hope I shall have the benefit of that promise, (which I have the Seal of in my heart) in Mat. 10. Take no care what to say, for in that hour, shall it be given unto you; therefore I doubt not, but to speak to you and them about you, in the name of the Lord Jesus, and in the demonstration of his holy Spirit. [be was interrupted.]  O.P. 
Take head you do not abuse the Scripture, if you be such a Disciple, than that promise shall be made good unto you, and then you may say, you suffer for Christ.  Ro. 
I doubt not but that will appear, that I am his Disciple, who made me that promise, and if we be not able to make it out to  man, that we suffer for Christ and a good conscience sake, by God's holy word, then chop off my h●ad: but indeed (my Lord) we can clear it to all the World, would they hear us, and not handle us so roughly as you do, for we have had a very dangerous passage to you, this day, an ardua via through Swords and Halberds.  O. P. 
Indeed? says he (〈◊〉 a scoff) and I pray who was wounded?  Ro. 
It was a mercy there were no more hurt, though many were bruised, beaten and hurt, and among others my Wife, but who the rest be, (as yet I know not.)  O. P. 
No so I think! but I have no time to dispute those things.  Ro. 
Why then, I say, as I said before, my way must be clear, before I can proceed further, for if they petitioned I have done, and dare not answer a word on that ground, because I represent thousands of the poor Saints, who are one with me in this cause, whose Trust I cannot, I dare not betray.  O.P. 
Then we have done;— for I tell you, you came here by adesire, I told them I would put it to the issue this meeting, and that I would prove it you suffered for evildoing.  Ro. 
That will not be so easily done, But (my Lord) I speak as I hope, I am a civil man, and in some measure a rational man, and I trust through grace, I am a Christian, nor doth Christianity destroy civility, and yet I must say again that I care hither by the Desire or Request of my friends. I shall not, I will not speak a word any farther, than to tell you my reasons; For I would not have any friend petition for me, where in and to whom I cannot with a good conscience petition for myself, now in the matters of faith and truth for which we suffer) we cannot petition to you, for we are not Debtors to man, but to God, who is the Law giver, and only proper judge therein, and therefore we petition to the Lord Jehovah our Judge, than 2. If they did so, they did not answer the trust, the Church, whereto they are related, reposed in them; for it was set upon their hearts as an incumbent point of duty to Christ and his Churches to make Demand of the Lords prisoners in the name of the Lord Jesus, whom you and your powers have so unchristianly, and indeed with worse than Roman Tyranny rend and torn from the Churches, so that if they made a petition to you, I am silent, and shall say no more, as I said before.  B.C. 
(One of the Twelve) I shall lay open the whole state of the business, for we are entrusted with a Message from our Society, and did but according to our trust, make the Demand, and bear our Testimony, and made no request at all to you, but when you said, our Brother Rogers suffered as an evildoer, we said then, why do you not make it appear, and you said, you would on Friday or Tuesday, and this was all.  O.P. 
Well! Who says it is more? who says you Petitioned? I told you he suffered as an evil doer, as a Railer, as a Seducer.  Ro. 
But your words are not proofs, my Lord! but yet seeing my way is more clear now, I shall say somewhat more: there is no law of God nor yet of man, that makes me such an Offender: But yours which is worse than the Roman Law and Tyranny, that makes a man a 
* See their Ordinance for Treason.  Traitor for words.  O.P. 
Who calls you a Traitor? I call you not: see, I believe you speak many things according to the Gospel; but you suffer for evildoing.  Ro. 
The Gospel of the Kingdom may occasionable be so accounted and judged, for as Christ our Saviour saith, I came not to send peace but the sword, the doctrine of Christ by the powers of the world hath ever been reputed, sedition, railing, lying and speaking evil of dignities.  O.P. 
I grieve that you call this the gospel, for every one is ready to come and say, this is the gospel, with words in their mouths; and say, this is the meaning of the Scripture; but there wants the power of godliness: for Christ and his Disciples will not speak evil of no man.  Ro. 
Yea, they did speak against sinners as sinners, which is no evil speaking: But who made you the Judge of the Scriptures (my board?) what ever you say it shall never appear (I trust) to the Saints, or unbyased discerning men, that I suffer as an evil doer, what ever you say, or suppose; I can make it appear, it is an essential, Fundamental Principle of Faith, which is now under Persecution, 
What the testimony is they suffer in.  and for which we suffer, viz. The Kingly Office of Christ, and those that deny that truth (for, & in which we suffer) are indeed Heretics (and not we:) It is true, this present testimony, for Christ's Kingly Interest hath two parts, viz. The Positive and the Privative; now for the last it is we suffer, and not for evildoing.  O.P. 
Why, who will hinder you Preaching the Gospel of Christ? yea, 
How knows be that, for he hears him not preach?  his Personal Reign? who will hinder? you speak of high Nations, but you do not preach the gospel to build up souls in Christ.  Ro. 
I know my Lord, that you are a Sophister, 
* With that the Officers and them present scoffed & some gnashed with their teeth at the Prisoner.  and so it seems for a part of the truth, we may preach, but not the whole, not the Gospel of the kingdom preached for a Witness, as Mat. 24.14. to witness against the crying sins of men in power, or out of power; for that seems to strike at your Interest too much.  O.P. 
Why, what interest is mine?  Ro. 
A worldly interest which God will destroy.  O.P. 
Ha!— and do you judge me?  Ro. 
Yea, by the word of the Lord in the majesty, might, strength, power, vigour, life and Authority of the Holy Ghost, I can do, and dare. Judge you and your actions, 1 Cor. 2. The spiritual man jugdeth all things, whilst he himself is judged of no man; Besides, I am called by the Holy Ghost, which hath appointed me to preach the Gospel to judge sins.  O.P. 
And who will hinder you to preach the Gospel, or to do so? speak against Sin as much as you will.  Ro. 
You do from preaching that part of the Gospel which decries the public sins of the times or of men in Powers, Armies, etc. neither is it as you say, a railing, lying, or speaking evil of dignities; for the word railing in Judas 9 is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, now this is no blasphemy to speak the truth or against evils, nor is it railing to call a man as he is, to call a drunkard, a drunkard, is no railing; to call a Whoremaster, 
What sort of informers will serve against 5th Monarchy-men.  a Whoremaster, is no railing; to call a Thief, a Thief, to call an Apostate, an Apostate, is no railing; but to call one so, that is not so is railing.  O.P. 
To call an honest man a thief is railing, to call an honest man a Whoremaster is railing; though I do know you have truths of Christ in you, yet I will prove you suffer for railing, lying, and as a raiser of sedition; and I told them that I would have you sent 
* He said there was no such word in his Speech, but see it p. 13. It is some satisfaction, if a Commonwealth must perish that it perish by men and not by the hands of persons, (speaking of the plotters) differing little from beasts.  for, to satisfy them.  Ro. 
If that you say, can be made to appear, it is fit I should suffer; but as Reygnold said, Nihil est quin male interpretando possit depravari.  O.P. 
This will appear in the Informations that are upon the Table there, what a railer you are; and therefore let them be read (says he to some by him) for there be many of them, the Witnesses and the Evidences all are ready, it will appear easily, and out of the Prison such Informations, Evidences there are brought in, let them be read.  Ro. 
Your Informations will not make it appear (ere the more) to just men: I looked to have had a fair trial or a Christian debate; But this is otherwise, seeing men that are hired or any other ways basely suborned do inform against me: as for them out of Prison, it is a sign that your cause is not very good, that needs such Informers; as the Prisoners at Lambeth, they are such as you yourself have put in for plotting against you, left they should cut your Throat, and of whom you (your self) have said in your last Speech, that they differed little from Beasts, 
* Meaning, now another Paper of informations of what was preached at Thomas Apostles, that also lay upon the Table with the other out of Lambeth-prison At whose confidence Mr, Rogers with admiration lifted up his eyes & hands  and yet you can take their Informations against me, yea, drunkards, swearers, whoremongers, Cavaliers, Ranters, any men that make nothing to lie, swear, drink, curse and ban, whore and blaspheme, day and night, and what not? and yet these must inform against me to take away my Life, these are but bad Evidences (my Lord) and besides, were they honest men, it were illegal.  O.P. 
Nay they are honest, godly men that mourn over you, and that are troubled for you, that will witness these things against you.  Ro. 
I hardly believe honest men will accept of such an office, to inform against the poor people of God, and to seek the blood of any one of Christ's little ones, but I rather believe, they are some of your  
hired men, who seek for any stuff to gratify your Ears; But might I but stand on even ground with equal freedom, I would undertake to any  Christian to make it appear that the subject matter of our suffering for the truth and testimony of Jesus (our infirmities excepted, which the Lord knows are many) and therefore we must overcome by the blood of the Lamb, and the word of the Testimony, Rev. 12.  O.P. 
Nay, but I know you well enough, I know you, and what your principle is too, I know you that you never preached the Covenant of Grace, yea, I know it, I have had some discourse with you formerly, I know you are ignorant of the Covenant 
* This being spoken in such confusion of others, & the Great man's heat together, he was hardly heard but only of them who stood nigh and wrote. One of his Courtiers made answer, but he went on in his heat.  nay for all your lifting up your eyes, it is so.  Ro. 
That is strange you should judge so; my condition were uncomfortable then indeed, if I did not know the Covenant of grace, yea, fruition, whiles it may be some, have a National disciplinary or barely intuitive knowledge, there be many can testify whether I am so ignorant or no of the Covenant (of Christ) who have been my hearers long ago, it is for a branch, yea a principal branch of the New Testament-Covenant, that we are persecuted as Acts 2.30. viz. that part that God hath sworn unto, to exalt Christ over all his enemies, and to make him King over all Nations; this Covenant of the Father to the Son, makes us grapple with the Beast, and contest so as we do with the Powers of the world, though others are ignorant of the Covenant.  O.P. 
Nay I tell you I know you well enough, and I know your principles though you are but a young man, yet you have been in many places, and are known well enough.  Ro. 
Yea, I am so I hope, known of Christ too, and amongst other places, I have been in the Field too against the common enemies, (that are now gotten so high again) where (I think) I have done more for nothing, in mere conscience for the Lord Christ's sake, (never seeking wages, as your mercenary men) than any of your Colonels can say. 
* Raising men, arming himself and others, engaging in the field in England and Ireland spending his estate, Killing his , for the Army freely exposing his person to great dangers freely.   O.P. 
You talk of that is nothing to the purpose.  Kiffen. 
I cannot see my Lord, there will be any danger to have those papers read, we desired to hear how it appears that Mr. Ro. suffers as an Evil doer, and if it please your Highness, let those informations be read, that are brought in there, that we may hear how it appears as your Highness says.  O.P. 
Ah! so I say, let them be read.  Ro. 
My Lord, 
Which Gentleman was Mr. Kiffen, who since with some of his Members) hath slandered him behind his back.  that Gentleman spoke very smoothly, but we know now by experience, the greatest Snares are couched under the smoothest words; so there is a great Snares in his for he desires them to be read, that they may judge thereby whether I be an Evildoer or not; so that I thank the Gentleman for his charity, he seems beforehand resolved to judge me according to them, whther right or wrong, true or false, or whatever they be, and whoever informs, and whether they can be proved or no against me, but I perceive by him he is some mercenary man, that hath some dependence upon you, and from such I look for no other: But the most (my Lord) that can be said against me, is but an evil- speaker (which by God's assistance I trust in this matter, shall never be proved against me neither) and not an Evil doer, for not withstanding your former words, I can prove that the very heathens themselves abhorred to make words matter of fact as you do.  O.P. 
It is matter of fact you are questioned for, 
Mark it out of his own mouth.  for speaking evil of Authority, raising false accusations; or if they were as Nero, you are not to speak evil of them, for what hath the Devil his Name for, but because he is an accuser of the Brethren, and it is not for your good deeds that you are punished, for what saith Christ, for which of my good deeds do you punish me, and so you say, but you shall hear if these be read, whether it be for your good deeds, or for evildoing.  Ro. 
And as they answered Christ then, so do you us, it was not for his good deeds they would stone him, but for his blasphemy, and so pretended to do it legally, for the Law would have a blasphemer stoned, but that which they called blasphemy was indeed the truth, and good, and so it is now, what you call evil is good and the Devil (my Lord) hath his name from calumniating, slandering and lying, and accusing the good 
* So that the accusers of she good and grace of God is on that side by the informers and persecutors.  or grace of God, but not for accusing evil, or declaring against sin, the evils of Apostasy, persecution or the like, but if you will read the Articles you may, yet expect not a word of answer from me, unless it be in an open and legal Court, before a competent and fit Judge, which you are not (my Lord) nor those about you, but those things which are my due Right) granted I am ready to answer them in Westminster-Hall, (where I believe the Lords remnant who are one with me in this cause will stand by me) and at last you can have but a poor carcase (that is every day dying) yet I am resolved (with the help of God) not to throw a way my life, nor to betray this blessed cause, so as to answer to I know not what Spurious and forged informations, or charge in a Chamber, (grounded on malice, or that which is worse) nor will I be tried in Huggermugger, but if I have offended, it is fit I should have open Justice.  O.P. 
Who tries you? and who says it is a Charge? who calls it a charge? I say not so, and see! before you bear them, you call them Spurious  
[with that he takes up one that was titled from Lambeth, and was going to read somewhat.] 
One Abdy the chief informer, that very day be came with his Keeper to look for his reward he was stabbed in Fleetstreet, being imprisoned— for Blasphe any, Adultery Ranting, Atheism, and the most horrid sins that ever were beard of.   R. 
Yea, and I have good grounds so to do, seeing they come from such kind of Informers as they are.  
Then O.P. read one Article from Lambeth, as that he should call him Oliver Cromwell, that great dragon that fits at Whitehall pull him cut, etc.  Ro. 
There is such stuff as I abhor to have in my mouth, but I shall for bear to answer, and for that it is not worth the answering to.  O.P. 
These things will be proved.  B.H. 
(One of the Twelve,) We desire the things our Brother Rogers suffers for may be publicly known to all, for we apprehend he suffers for the Truth, and the things which you hear, you may that be misinformed in.  Ro. 
Therefore let me have a fair Hearing in a legal Court, and I hope the Lord will make me ready for what ever I must suffer right or wrong, if it must be so, but yet I tell you my Lord, I fear not any thing that you can lay against me justly and honestly, but the truth is, you take up any thing, that your Informers can handsomely patch together, who like the devil take a bit here, and a bit there (that makes for their turn) and you take it (as it lies) for granted presently. O my Lord I cannot but mourn for you, and your condition, which is sad and to be bewailed, and the rather, for that you have so many about you, who for their own ends, to get the world into their hands, do deceive you, but the Lord will judge righteously (ere long) I am sure, and let appear whether you or we have the best bottom to bear us up, for I bless the Lord the comforter is with me! I think my condition (through grace) though a poor prisoner a great deal better than yours, I would not change with you.  O.P. 
Well, well you are known well enough, and what spirit you are of, we know you, and to call your sufferings for Christ, when they are for evildoing is not well, yea it is blaspemy, yea I say blasphemy again, (for all your 
* M. Rog. amazed at such language again lifted up his band and eyes towards heaven, appealing to God to judge righteously.  lifting up of your eyes) and I tell you, yea you, that in a good box of ointment, a little thing, a dead fly may spoil all, yea a little fly.  Ro. 
I dare not (my Lord) justify myself in my infirmities, but I bless the Lord I can apply Christ's merits; I beseech you speak not so reproachfully of the spirit of God, to call it fanatic or an evil-spirit, for that is blasphemy so to do, (& see Isa. 63.10.) neither call evil good or good evil, for that is prevarication, Isa. 5.20. that which you judge Evildoing, the Lord judgeth well doing and my duty, yet I must tell you the Lord never made you a Judge over our Faith, nor of his Scripture whereof you take upon you.  O P. 
Well, you know that the time was, there was no great difference betwixt you and me; I had you in my eye, and did think of you for employment (and preferment) you know it well enough.  Ro. 
True my Lord! and than you could say to me, you thought no man in England so fit, but since, the case is altered indeed; but I pray consider, who it is, is changed: surely, it must be conscience that makes me suffer then: through so many temptations, as I have met with: and I have often said, let me be convinced by good words, that I am an Evildoer, as you said; and I would lay my Neck under you feet for mercy; but till then, I must keep my conscience.  
One of the Grandees (as we take it, it was G. Desborough) says, let the Informations be read, let them be heard; and than Scobell was called to read them (not those from Lambeth, but) those that were * brought in from Tho. Apostle, 
The Informations from Tho. Apostles read.  from what Mr. Rogers prayed, what he preached, and what they sang in Hymns, what he prayed, was for the Prisoners of the Lord at Windsor, and against the Tyranny of all Antichristian Powers, and to that purpose; and that God would hasten his Vials, out upon them. What he preached was out of Mat. 5. Agree with thine adversay (Christ) quickly; 
The Articles against Mr Ro, as well as they could be taken.  and be observed, Appostateadulterate professors must agree quickly with Christ their Adversary: applying it to the present Powers as such; proving they break the 10. Commandments: As the 1. In setting up Idols again, a golden Calf; so the Army and fleshly strength and the like are idolised, whilst men say these are the gods that brought us up out of Egypt.  
2. Command. is, Graven images, and so are the Tryers, and high Court Commissioners, such the inventions and graven images of men's making, with their Seals, Parchments, black boxes, and picklocks, 
* These Articles are many of them sals for matter and form, as can be made appear by hundreds.  Padlocks, and Keys, for your Hog-sties, Pig sties, and Goose-stals.  
3. Command. Take not my name in vain, etc. Such as have broke all their Declarations, Engagements, and abused his Attributes, using that name of God, for their own ends, are guilty of this.  
4. Command. Remember that thou keep holy the, etc. speaking of soul-rest, and saying, that the present Powers, kept not the Sabbath, that rested in their pleasures, flesh, etc. and not in Christ, but did their own work.  
5. Command. Honour thy father and mother, etc. They broke this commandment in their disobedience to God the heavenly Father.  
6. Thou shalt not murder, etc. Murderers are of many sorts, such as have betrayed the Blood that hath been shed against this kind of Government, etc. And then he converted his discourse against Informers that come for blood, & said, to hate a brother without a cause is murder.  
7. Thou shalt not commit adultery, etc. This they did with others, as Army, Lawyers, Priest's interest, and that which they before destroyed.  
8. Steal not. Now there are great thiefs, and little thiefs; great ones are now in present Powers, and Army thiefs, Clergy thiefs, Lawyer's thiefs, and the great thief now in Whitehall. But the other two he left to another time: When he had done, he read a Letter from Mr. Feak, where was a Dialogue between him and the Governor, and then he commented upon it: and said, It is worse now than it was with the Romans, for then Paul might preach, though a Prisoner, but now we are 
* Now is Mr. Roger's forced to preach out at the iron bars of the prison on Lordsdays.  denied it. After that he sung an Hymn and the people joined with great alacrity) against oppression and persecution, etc.  
After this Information was read, Mr. Rogers said, My Lord, I had a purpose not to answer one word hereto, this being no suitable place or time to answer a charge, and no witnesses appearing against me to make it good; but yet I shall tell you this, for I will not (with the Lords help) speak a word but what I will own to your face; for I love to appear in the sincerity of my soul and conscience, for my Lord and Master Jesus Christ plain to all men; and to lay open my principles which I have no cause (though grace) to be ashamed of, the matter of this is much of it true: but as to the form, there is a great deal of patching & botching put in by your mercenary hirelings, which I will not own, but as to much of the matter of it, I must dare, and with the Lords grace) I will, though I die for it, and without you should cut my tongue out of my head, I shall continue the testimony up, and tell you moreover (with the rest about you here) that I regard your laws in the matters of my God no more than straws, for Imperia Divina non sunt subjecta Magistratui, saith one of the Martyrs, and tell you, that I will not be accountable to the Magistrate, nor submit to his judgement in the matters of my Faith, which the Civil law can take no due cognizance of.  
One of his Council said, Ha! Imperia Divina.  Ro. 
So I say, Imperia Divina.  O.P. 
Saith he, are these spurious Articles now? put in by drunkards, and swearers, and whoremongers too? are they not? Ha!— Ha!—  Ro. 
My Lord, 
They would fain have shisted off them from Lambeth (as it seems) as if they were ashamed of them.  I know what I say? Those which were sent from Lambeth, put in by the Prisoners there, those I say: a●e such, I did not say all, but those that I see there, which lie upon the Table titled from Lambeth; and besides, there is Sergeant Dendy knows this, that I say for hehimself (I thank him) sent in their Informations against me to M. Thurloe, which he cannot deny. S. Dendy, I delivered him none my Lord. Ro. I say not, you delivered them, but you sent them by your man, who delivered them according to your directions.  S. Dendy 
But my Mother, my Lord, this was my Mother, for she Catechised me, my Lord, and I told her.  Ro. 
So that is true, as I said before, that those from Lambeth-prison are spurious, wicked & illegal.  Mr. Cre. 
Pray, my Lord, let M. Rogers have a copy of his charge, for the law allows it him.  O.P. 
No, this is not his trial.  Ro. 
Why then, let me have it as you are a Christian, for is it fit I be denied a sight of my accusation against me?  
[but be turned away and would not hear.]  M.Cre. 
Then, my Lord, let us, have liberty of conscience; will you not give us so much liberty as the Parliament gave?  
[with that he turned about in anger]  O.P. 
I tell you, there was never such liberty of conscience, no, never such liberty since the days of 
* He confessed that Antichrists government is now up in England, yet so that no wonder the Prisons are so full of precious Saints.  Antichrist as is now; for may not men preach and pray what they will? And have not men their liberty of all opinions?  Ro. 
It is true, there is liberty enough, and too much too, for drunkards, swearers, and men of vile debauched principles and evil lives, Common-prayer-men, and such like (we know) round the Nation.  
[then his creatures about him scoffed.]  O.P. 
Ha!— Are Drunkenness, Swearing, opinions then?  Ro. 
I say not so, but I say, such men may have their opinions whiles we are persecuted for the truth. But why do you not my Lord, let out my brother Feak at Windsor, with myself (seeing we suffer in one cause, for one testimony, and (I trust) by one Spirit of Jesus Christ) let us both out to answer for ourselves jointly together? and to make it appear to all uninteressed Christians, that we are no evil doers, in the matters we suffer for, which if we do not then, let us suffer.  O.P. 
M Feak, truly M Feak, (I think) less evil may be said of him than of you: but there are many of different opinions, that come to me, and they know they have all their liberty of their opinions.  Ro. 
Yea, every man almost that talks with you, is apt to think you of his opinion, my Lord, what ever he be?  
[his creatures scoffed again.  O.P. 
Nay, you 
* But some of that opinion do, as Mr. T.G. and others,  do not (saith he) in anger?  
[his creatures scoffed and laughed again.]  Ro. 
Some of this Judgement do, think you so, although as I said before the the Privative— (or negative) part of the Testimony you cannot bear.  O.P. 
Pish! here is a deal of positive and privative to show you are a Scholar, and 'tis well known what you are, and where do you find that distinction? 
They thought Mr. Rogers to be an antic, because he spoke in power and goeat zeal.   Ro. 
In Logic.  O.P. 
Ha!  Ro. 
I must tell you in the Name of the Lord Jehovah that your condition is very desperate, and if you consult the holy oracles, you will find it for the next vial which is to be poured out, is the scorching hot one, and must fall upon the Apostate professors that have forsaken and betrayed the cause of Christ, and look to it, it is like to fall heavy upon your heads, and those that are about you, I pray, think of that in Hosea 1.4. the blood of Jezreel shall be upon the house of Jehu, though Jehu did obey the Lord in doing Justice on Ahab and Jezabel, yet because he fell into the same predicament of sin, walking in the same steps of evil which Ahab walked in (the very blood of them sell upon his head.  O.P. 
Your spirit is to Judge, but I regard not your words, look you to your Conscience, and I will look to mine, yet for that of Jehu, Why, what was that for? it was for fear lest the people should go back again to the House of David (and so he was running into the story of Jeroboam) and to Jerusalem, but he was corrected. Then Kiffen said, it is so, then said Mr. Rogers it is not so of Jehu, but of Jeroboam, which he speaks of; then he corrected himself, and said, well; but Jehu, can you parallel it now? Why his heart was hypocritical, and by policy clavae to the same sin of his Predecessors, and Baal again to please the people.  Ro. 
True my Lord, and is it not so now?  O.P. 
Ha— saith he; and turned about to his Army men, and so he spoke of the Army too, what can you say of them?  Ro. 
I say they are an Appostate Army, that have most perfidiously betrayed the cause of Christ, broken their faith in so many Declarations and Engagements, and are odious to the Saints; yea the very name of them will be odious to the children that are yet unborn.  
[With that the Army-men (for many Officers were by) were sorely vexed, some grating their teeth, and laying heads together]  O.P. 
I tell you (saith he, in a chafe) I tell you, and you! that they have kept them all to a tittle, not one of you can make it appear that they have broke one Declaration or Engagement, or a tittle of one, prove it if you can, any of you.  Ro. 
Mr. Rogers did earnestly press for liberty, to instance in some, and with much ado, said: My Lord, if you would have patience, I would instance in many: [they scoff again.  O.P. 
Am I impatient? then let them that stand by see! nay, it is you are so full like the Pamphleteers.  Ro. 
They that writ Pamphlets now, never printed more lies and blasphemies since the world stood.  O.P. 
I think so too.  Ro. 
But my Lord, if you please to let me speak, for if I be extreme, is not passio concupiscibilis, as we see in some men, who speak all for themselves, whilst we seek only for Christ and his kingdom, but rather a passio irascibilis (which it may, is my weakness, but sure it is my indignation to sin and self, and that which I see set up instead of Christ: but if you 
* For there were many postures 〈◊〉 actions tending to disturb and interrupt him.  will give me leave, I will instance in Declarations, as that in 47. for one, page 9 where they Declare against any Authority or Absolute power in any Person or Persons what soever during life; saying the people so subjected were mere Slaves, and that you would not have it so in any; no, not in any of your own Army; or of your own Principles; nor yet of whom you might have most personal assurance? and that it was no resisting of Magistracy, to side with just principles; and much more to that purpose: Besides, in several others, as in Albans: and that when the Army went to Scotland against the Clergy and Tithes.  
[But Master Rogers was interrupted and not suffered to insist on any others.  O.P. 
And who? Hear me: Who?— Who? I say, bathe broken that? Where is an Arbitrary or Absolute power? (nay, hear me) Where is such a Power?  Ro. 
Is not the Longsword such? By what Law or Power are we put into prison, my brother Feak above these 12 months, I above 28 weeks (and several others of our Brethren) and we know not for what to this day: which, I say again, is worse, yea worse than the Roman Law: And is not this Arbitrary? And is not your Power, with the Armies, Absolute? to break up Parliaments, and do what you will? But if you please, let me instance in others.  
(But they would not suffer him.)  
One of the Army, some say, L.C. W. Sir, (saith he to Mr. Ro.) you say the Army have broken all their Engagements.  Ro. 
Yea, every one of them: and if they make another Declaration, they will hardly be believed again, by good people.  L.C. W. 
But I pray by what Rule do you resist Powers set up of God?  Ro. 
Sir, you are mistaken, we do not resist such as are set up of God; but we resist sin in all men: and as Luther said, Invaniar sane superbus, etc. I may be accounted proud, mad, or any thing: but be it so ne modo impii silentii arguar, dum Christus patitur; rather than I be guilty of the sin of Silence. 
* But Mr. Ro. was interrupted, and forced to break off. while O. P. proceeded. .  O. P. 
Now for the Army, they are resolved not to rest, till they have performed all they engaged; and they are about it, as fast as they can do it in order.  
And much to that purpose he spoke. But then Mr. Her. desired to speak.  B. Her. 
I desire to speak a word.  O. P. 
Well, do.  Mr. Her. 
That Gentleman (meaning L.C. W.) asked by what Rule we resist powers: We desire then to be satisfied, by what Rule you resisted the King, and warred against him and his adherents, and destroyed the Governments before, seeing they were accounted too a lawful Authority. And consider how much blood cries under the Altar, How long, O. Lord, holy and true!  O. P. 
Would undertake to answer, by a long Narrative of the people's grievances, the King's absolute power, and his seeking to destroy his subjects, till they were forced to take up Arms for their own defence; so that it was a defensive War and the former powers had broken their Engagements, and forfeited their trust.  
Much more was spoken by one or other thereto. But saith he, looking upon Mr. Ro. Ha!  O. P. 
I see he is full to speak.  Ro. 
Yea. my Lord, I am: for (ex concessis) our controversy is decided, and the Case is plain on our side, and seems so now more than even; 
The Controversy cleared, out of their own mouths.  for do not the poor people of God seel a Preragative-interest now up? As the old Non conformists, or the good old Puritans were persecuted, imprisoned, reproached, and denied protection from men, and therefore were forced to fly to God by faith and prayer, and tears day and night, 
1.  (not ceasing, till the vial of wrath was poured out upon the beads of the King and his Prelates: so, I say, the new Non-conformists are abused, disowned, and denied protection; persecuted, imprisoned, banished, and forced day and night (yea thousands of them in City and Country) to their faith, tears, prayers, and appeals; which are the Bombar da Christianorum, and will prevail (as sure as God is in heaven) to bring down the next hot scorching vial of his wrath upon these new Enemies and Persecutors.  
Besides, 
2 2.  in your own Declaration, p. 7. of that— 43, you say it is no resisting of Magistracy to side with just principles. And is it not just to side with that Interest which the blood of so many thousands of the Saints hath sealed to, in the three Nations; and so many Declarations, Vows, and Engagements have been made for, viz. for the Lambs, and against this your Interest, which we have all engaged, prayed, bled, and fought against? Now, my Lord, let the loud Cries of the blood shed against these things you have set up, be heard; and make restitution of that blood, those lives, tears, bowels, faith, prayer, limbs, and skulls, of us and our relations left in the fields, and laid out against this kind of Government, whether in Civil or Ecclesiastical; or else let us have what they were laid out for: otherwise we must and will, with the Lords help, side with those just Principles that have been so sealed to, and owned by the Lord. And this will be a most apparent defensive war as ever was in the world, to defend what the blood, and bones, and estates of so many thousands of the Saints of God have bought at so high a rate, which they are wronged: for they never thought of setting up this. And therefore I say, (my Lord) if our God the Lord Jehovah do give his Call, I am ready, for one, amongst the Lord's remnant, to side with just Principles, in the strength of the Anointing, whether it be pradicando, pracando, or praeliando; by preaching, praying, or fight.  Sir Gilb. P. 
Said you not praliando?  
Yea, says Mr. R. in the Spirit of the Lord: for the Case was never so clear as now it is in the state of the Controversy. For the Controversy is not now between man and man, 
The state of the Controversy is between Christ & O.P. Christ's Government & Mans.  one Government of the world, and another Government of the world, or King and People; but it is now between Christ and you (my Lord) Christ's Government and yours: and which of these two, are the higher powers for us to side with, and be obedient unto, judge ye.  O.P. 
Ha! Why who denies the Case to be clearer now? But I heard indeed, 
This speech seemed to trouble them all.  it is some of your principles to be at it: you long to be at it; you want but an opportunity.  Ro. 
The remnant of the woman's seed must be at it when they have the Call. For I beseech you, my Lord, consider how near it is to the End of the Beasts dominion, the 42 months, and what time of day it is with us now.  
(But Mr. Ro. was interrupted.)  O.P. 
Talk not of that; for I must tell you plainly, 
An Ignoramus brought in very honestly.  they are things I understand not.  Ro. 
It seems (my Lord) so, else surely you durst not lay violent hands upon us, for the testimony and truth of the day, as you do.  B. D. (one of the 12) 
Why then do you imprison others for the light, if you yourself be so ignorant?  
(But then some of the Court-creatures pulled him by the cloak, and laid violent hands on him, and called him stinking base fellow, saying he knew not whom he spoke to, nor where he was; giving him many uncivil words. But afterward one of them said to him, Ask for Mr. Ro. out of prison; a●k for him, and my Lord will let him out. But B. D. answered, No, Sir, we came not for that.  B. P. 
Great men are not always wise.  O.P. 
See! (says he, looking upon his Army-men.)  Ro. 
They are not always wise with the wisdom of God, though they may have much carnal policy, subtlety, and reason of State. But the seed of the woman shall break the Serpent's head.  
(Which Mr. Ro. speaking with a high voice, and great alacrity, it made the Courtier's scoff at him, as if he were a Madman.  O.P. 
Ha! and thus they talk of the Ministry, and Commissioners for Approbation, and say they are Antichristian. 
* See your Ordinance, March 20, 1653. the ground is upon Patrons right to present to cure of souls; the creator, is your L P. Cromwell; the matter, men of corrupt principles and practices, and most of them of the National Church; the end is, to fill Parish-cures, and get Tithes: all Antichristian. .  Ro. 
Yea, my Lord, we do say so, and they are so, as to their standing upon a wrong, un-Gospel foot of account; and I will prove them and your Tryers (I speak not as to their persons, but as to their standing) Antichristian for matter, and form, and rule (by which they sit) and end for which they sit.  O.P. 
You fix the name of Antichristian upon any thing.  Ro. 
Pray (my Lord) make no Law against that name; let it not be treason to use the name Antichristian: for that name will up yet higher and higher; and many things that you think good and Christian, will be found Antichristian ere long.  O.P. 
Being angry, looked on his Army-men: See! said he, and so all is Antichristian, and Tithes are so too with you; but I will prove they are not.  Ro. 
My Lord, you were once of another mind, and told me you'd have them pulled down, and put into a Treasury.  O.P. 
Did I ever say so?  Ro. 
Yea that you did, in the Cockpit (the round place there;) and said moreover, that the Poor should be maintained and put to work, with what remained of them, that we might have no beggar in England.  O.P. 
Ha! there be many Gentlemen know that I have been for them, and will maintain the justness of them.  Ro. 
But, my Lord, how can that be, that the National Ministry is not Antichristian?  O.P. 
See now! how you run! It is not a National Ministry that is now established, nor can you make it appear they are Antichristian.  Ro. 
Yea, my Lord, without any difficulty, out of your own Law which hath constituted these Tryers and High-Court-Commissioners to establish a worldly Clergy.  O. P. 
I tell you, you and you, that you cannot; for they ordain none.  Ro. 
No: but if the Pope, Prelate, or Devil should ordain them, they must approve of them, settle them in their Parishes, get them their Tithes, and what not? if they be but conformable to  
— He is interrupted.  O.P. 
I tell you, I tell you, it is their grace they judge of, and not for parts or learning, Latin, Greek, or Hebrew.  Ro. 
And who made them judges of grace, my Lord? At most, they can but judge of the fruits of grace; and how dare they take upon them to be judges over Grace? It is not you, but the Lord Jesus, that can make them such judges.  
[With that, he turned away, as very angry.  B. H. 
My Lord, we are very much dissatisfied with what you have done against these prisoners of the Lord Jesus, for so they are, and we must count them so: for you have given us not sat is faction at all, in what you pretend them to be as evil doers.  O.P. 
I cannot tell you then how to help it.  B. H. 
For my part, I must declare against you, and will venture my life, if I be called to it, with these our brethren that suffer.  B. Cr. 
As for those Articles, we have heard them read, against our bro. Ro. out of his Sermons preached at Tho. Apost. and from what he prayed at Th. Apost. Set aside but what is put in by your Informers, which we will take our Oaths that heard them (all preached) were never spoken by him: (only, I say, that excepted) we will live and die with him upon those Articles, & will own him with our lives.  
— Yea, said Mr. Ro. and I believe an hundred will, that heard and writ them.  O. P. 
Well, (saith he) I'll send for some of you ere long: but I have lost this time, and have public business upon me at this time: I had rather have given 500 l. I tell you, there wants brotherly love; and the several sorts of Forms would cut the throats one of another, should not I keep the peace.  Ro. 
Those you call Fifth Monarchy-men, are driven by your Sword to love one another.  O.P. 
Why I tell you there be Anabaptists (pointing at Mr. Kifsin) and they would cut the throats of them that are not under their Forms; so would the Presbyterians cut the throats of them that are not of their Forms; and so would you Fifth Monarchy-men. It is sit to keep all these Forms out of the Power.  Ro. 
Who made you (my Lord) a Judge of our Principles? You speak evil of you know not what. For that Fifth Monarchy-principle (as you call it) is of such a latitude as takes in all Saints, all such as are sanctified in Christ Jesus, without respect of what Form or Judgement he is. But, Judiciuns fit secundum vim intellectualis luminis  
— [He was interrupted.  O.P. 
What do you tell us of your Latin?  Ro. 
Why (my Lord) you are Chancellor of Oxford; and can you not bear that Language?  B. C. 
My Lord, we have great comfort by the Ministry of our brother Rogers, and great miss of him; and therefore we have demanded his Liberty, and desire to know whether he shall be at liberty, or no.  O.P. 
I will take my own time: you shall not know what I will do.  B. H. 
Then let us have liberty to hear him preach.  S. Dendy. 
It cannot be, my Lord: for I have many prisoners and 'tis dangerous 
* And yet for all S. Dendy's baseness to the poor persecuted people of God, And his readiness to prevent the great man's answer, he can let in as many as will come, to the drunken profane prisoners & plotters; so that friends are glad to use their names (if they know any of them) that come to see Mr. Rogers. .  Ro. 
Pray, my Lord, consider that place in Isa. 49.24, 25, 26. for the Lord will deliver the lawful Captive in that day which is coming: you can but have my blood at last; and you had like to have had it already in the Prison ere this: two of my children have died there since my imprisonment, and I have been at Deaths-door.  B. H. 
It is unreasonable our brother Ro. should be kept prisoner so, in such a place, and at such a charge as is (for him) above 200 l. per an. and we know no cause for it, but his conscience.  
Then S. Dendy was spoken to, to answer for himself.  S. D. 
Now, my Lord, I see one of my Accusers. I never demanded a penny of Mr. Ro. nor of my Aunt his wife, who is one of Sir Robert Payne's daughters.  O.P. 
I knew her father very well.  S. D. 
But they have (my Lord) three rooms, and it cannot be allowed.  Ro. 
No more room than one prisoner had before, being divided into three little rooms, and but one chimney in them All. The Plotter that went out before I came into them, had them All. And for the Fees, though you in person demanded them not, yet your man (old Measey) did, for you, several times, viz. 4 l. 4 s. per week; which he did before witness, as I can prove under their hands: and he said I should not go out till the Sergeant had it. And what besides I was to pay you, I was not to know till I went out.  
Mrs. Ro. said to Sergeant Dendy, It's true, you have had but 5 l. yet of it.  O.P. 
Why he is your Nephew, who was accounted one that loved the people of God.  Ro. 
So were others as well as he, till this trial.  Mr. Cre. 
My Lord, will you not give us the liberty to hear him in the Prison then, seeing you will not let us hear him abroad?  O.P. 
Is that the liberty you sought for? (says he, in a scoff.)  Mr. Cr. 
Yes, Sir, and that which we demand.  
But then the Great man would be gone: and as he was going out, Mr. Ro. desired him to remember he must be judged, and the day of the Lord was near, and that he would, (ere long) and those about him find them that now he and they counted false Prophets, in Windsor and Lambeth, true Prophets; and what they have said, they should find come to pass ere many years yet: for that the righteous Jehovah, who sitteth on high, heareth all our prayers, sighs, groans, and tears. But away he went, and would not hear.  
As soon as we came out of the room, Sergeant Dendy in the Gallery threatened what he would do, and how he would send them further off, and order them ere long; Mr. Rogers receiving the threatening without impatience, or one word of reply unto him.  
That very night, a strict Order was sent after him to Lambeth-prison, that no more than six may come to see Mr. R. at a time, (no such Order being made for any of the other Prisoners, who have of lend company as many as they will at a time.) And since that, the Gaoler hath been so strict, (especially upon the Lords days) according to his Orders from Whitehal, that he will not suffer one brother to come in to see him, or to pray with him, that is sent from the Churches of Christ, (upon those days, if he knows him) to keep a holy rest with Mr. R. 
In the mean time, the Contumelies, Contempt, and opprobrious abuses, the members of Mr. Peak's, Mr. Rogers's, Mr. Raworth's and of some other Churches, met with below in the yard, during the foresaid Discourse with O. Cromwell.  But to pass over that and leave it to the Judge of heaven and earth, who (we are sure) will not overpass it.  
During this Discourse between Mr. R. and the Great man above, the Brethren that were below in the yard, had their share of reproaches and abuses. For the members of the Churches of Christ who could not have access with Mr. Ro. were kept below, and encompassed about with divers of the deboist Soldiers; who when they heard us declare against those barbarous actions which the Guard so cruelly acted with their Swords, against our naked brethren and friends, those aforesaid Soldiers began to question the occasion of our being there: which when we had told them, they began to set up their voices, (many of them) hooting and hissing at 〈…〉 as if we had not been Christians, or creatures of the like make with themselves; telling us we had often risen, and they had allayed us, and they made no question but they should also allay us at this time, if we intended to rise. To whom we answered, that there was no such thing in cur eye now, as to avenge ourselves by or with external weapons: but said, We have here Swords (showing our Bibles) which we believe will, in God's appointed time, (being guided and accompanied by his Spirit) destroy and cut in pieces your Swords, which now you draw against us and it.  
Afterwards we further observed, that whilst we were waiting below in the open yard, for the return of our friend, and friends, there being of us (as near as we can remember) betwixt forty and fifty persons, (men and women) that we could find no place in the aforesaid yard, where we might have any quiet, or be free from the uncivil reproaches, scoffing, jeers, blasphemous nicknames, and what not? which some of the aforesaid Foot-guard threw upon us, with great contempt and scorn, telling us, Bridewell and suchlike places were sitter for us, 
So that we believe, the Lord bathe a little remnant in the army also, whose souls do secretly mourn for these Abominations: and it is observable, that the Lord hath by degrees pulled the choicest of them out of this Apostate-army, that they might not partake of their plagues; as, M.G. Harison, col. Rich Col. Okey, col. Alured, Adj. G. Allen, M.G. Overton, Maj. Wiggens, Dr. Day, and many others.  then to be there?  
But in the midst of their uncivil, unchristianlike, and very lewd language to us, we cannot but remember that spirit of remorse and pity which seemed to be in some of their Officers, to see us so abused: insomuch as some of the said Officers told us they were sorry to see such things, namely, the uncivil carriage of some of their Soldiers: yet (said they) we cannot expect better, where it is not.  
Thus, for the space of divers hours, we were barried up and down, not being suffered to be in quiet in any one place, without the company of divers of those unruly fellows, whom we should have been content to let hear our discourse, would they have suffered us to stand still or in quiet: But they so uncivilly & most ungodlily show their obscene and silt by speeches and actions; yea, they pulled and haled divers of the women and maids that were there of our friends, and said that we made no conscience of our ways, and that they were of light principles, using such words and gestures to them and us, as we are ashamed to utter or express; besides manifold more provocations, revile, and filthy speeches, and threaten, and sinful actions, wherein they seemed to take great delight.  
But after Mr. Rogers and the Brethren that were with him came down into the Yard, many friends gathered about him. Whiles Mr. R. (being remanded again to prison) was going to take water with his Keeper, he heard M.G. Harison, Col. Rich, Mr. Carew, Qu. M. Gen. Courtney, Mr. Ireton, Mr. Squib, with many others, were there, in the yard: so that Mr. Ro. went to them. And after joyful Salutations, he told them he was going to Prison again ● and that there were Articles put in by wicked men out of the Prison against him, which he excepted against as illegal, and as given in by Plotters, and men given to drinking, swearing, and suchlike sins; and some others, which were read against him, from Tho. Apostles. But as he was telling this, he was interrupted by one that cried out, That is false, it is false. Upon which, he was silent, to look upon the man that so said: and it was Mr. Kiffen, (who had crowded among us, to listen for tales to carry to his Master) who then said, They were not Articles put in by Drunkards, that is untrue, etc. but by honest Godly men that heard you at Tho. Apostles. To which Mr. Ro. replied, that the Articles were of two sorts: those read, were from Tho. Apostles; but those unread, (which he excepted against) were from Lambeth, given in by such lewd men, and he saw them upon the Table: and that his Lord Protector (besides) said they had Informations from the Prison, and moreover read one of them, viz. that of the Great Dragon; and Sergeant Dendy sent them to Mr. Thurloe, as was proved: so that it was not false, but very true. At which Mr. Kiffen was so silenced, that he could not say a word for himself. Which some of the Gentlemen by, seeing, reproved him for his rashness: and so Mr. Ro. and they parted, perceiving people to flock about them and without doubt, to have somewhat to inform their Great Master against Mr. Ro. or some of the poor Saints; for that is the principle and practice of selfseeking Sycophants and Court-Parasites, to make themselves, and not care how they murder others, or what they inform against them.  
Whiles Mr. R. was carried away to prison again, 
M.G. Harison, Col. Rich, Mr. Carew, Mr. Squib, Mr. Courtney, Mr. Ireton, & many others, continued up the Testimony & the Demand to O. P. the very same night.  the foresaid Gentlemen (of much merit, and singular honour amongst the choicest Saints, for their unspotted sanctity, and integrity to the betrayed Truth and Cause of Christ) went up to the Great Man; although before they could have any access, the Sword was drawn at them also, and set at Mr. Carey's breast: but after eight or ten of them had liberty to O. P. they brought him the some kind of Message from Jehovah, that was before delivered him by the Twelve; making a Demand of the Lord's Prisoners, and bearing their Testimony to his face, against Him and his Government.  
In the mean time, Mr. Kiffen below had got a company together (in Mr. Rogers' absence) railing upon him, and saying he was a wicked man, and had told what was not true of the Articles, and spoke against his Lord. But Mr. G. (a precious godly Christian, and a member of the Church at D.) then spoke aloud to Mr. Kiffen (as Mr. K. did before to Mr. R.) saying, That's false: for I can (says he) no more be silent for Mr. Rogers, than you can be for your Lord Protector: What Mr. R. spoke was truth, as he made it appear to your face; (and then he told him how.) So that poor Mr. K. was silenced again the second time, and could not go on, till a more private and clandestine meeting among his own kind of Time-servers and Self-seekers, where he might tell his untruths against Mr. Mr. R. M.G. Harison, and others, without control, (as we hear he, with some that belong unto him, have done at large) and have them taken upon the trust and credit of his word at a venture: it is but reason and gratitude to his Great Master, to possess all he can against the poor persecuted Saints, in the behalf of him to whom he is so highly obliged, (above any one man almost in England) for his large favours, & beneficial Patentees. But ere long the Merchants who were made Rich (by compliance with Babylon) shall weep and wail, and say, Alas, Alas! Rev. 18.15, 16.  
It is to be observed, 
somewhat observable.  that very day the Sword was drawn twice at the Witnesses and Woman's Seed. The Providence is also admirable, at that very juncture when Mr. R. and the Brethren were before him, to maintain the Testimony and Demand made by the Twelve, that on that very day (many Assemblies of the Saints in several places, being hard at the Throne) the Lord should call out one (unknown to any of us) whole Meeting of the praying number (being about 34 men) to go to Whitehal, and bear their Witness also.  
The concurrence of the Testimony and the Demand is no less considerable, seeing one had not the knowledge of the others Message, that M.G. Harison, Mr. Carew, and the rest, should second the aforesaid Twelve, by a mere hand and call of God, which they were obedient unto; (which is very exemplary and encouraging to all the Saints and Churches in England, who are faithful to the Cause of Christ) seeing so leading and calling a Providence.  
The Demand and the Testimony is of a sudden gotten to a high pitch, 
The Testimony up at a high pitch.  which doth mightily raise up the expectations of the believing remnant.  
It is not meet for us to publish the matter of their Testimony, (being of the same nature with this Narrative) neither can we do it so accurately and faithfully as we hope some others will; The present work of the Day, (to gag the misreports thereupon) for the quickening and strengthening them that are to follow us, calling for the publication thereof without delay, wherever it lies. And the rather, for that Those choice servants of the Lord Jesus, 
M.G. Harison Mr. Carew, & Mr. Courtney, sent away with a Troop of horse to prison, we know not whither, the 22 day of the 12 month  M.G. Harison, Col. Rich, Mr. Carew, and Col. Courtney, are so cruelly used for their Testimony and the Truth's sake, (having no fact (but their faith) to charge them with) and hurried away to Prison with a Troop of Horse, and we know not whither. So that the man must needs be wilfully blind indeed now, that will not see and say, The Saints are under Persecution.  
Therefore let not the good People of the Nation be so shamefully abused and deceived as they have been, 
A word of Caution.  with lying Pamphlets and Informers, whiles the Truth cannot, must not, date not be printed, for fear of offending the men in Power, and suffering a Prison, or worse. Of all, beware of that Abominable Oracle the late Ironmonger (but now Parish-Preacher) 
* A man so base and scandalous, as makes him horrible, and his Name to stink among the Churches, as very unfit matter to be a member of a Church, but rather fit to be excommunicated, & exploded the society of all the Saints, for bringing so foul reproach upon Religion, which he hath formerly pretended to; till he followed this Trade of Merchant for Lies.  Walker, (his Weekly Proceed) whose forehead hath for many years been plated and brazened in the Trade and Art of Lying, making it his Calling and his Living (except the Tryers help him more easily to the Parish-Tythes.) This drives the poor man to so much pitiful soraping among the Court-Clerks for a few Lies to sell every week at an easy rate, that he and his family may live comfortably upon the lying slandering, and traducing the Lords peculiar ones, who are as the apple of his eyes. How lamentably he hath abused Mr. Feak, Mr. Rogers M.G. Overton and many others, is well known, and one day he must answer before the just Judge of all hearts, with a wan countenance, and woeful conscience, however he thinks to palliate it at present with a So't was told me. But as Solomon says, Prov. 17. 4. A liar giveth ear to a naughty tongue; and the curse is threatened not only to them that make, but them that receive and report Lies, Rev. 21. Therefore (Exod. 23.1.) Put not thy hand to an unrighteous witness.  
These things are published in mere love to the Truth and despised Saints of God, for whose sake we are contented to become a reproach in the world, and to suffer any thing (by his Grace) that man can inflict upon us, so our dear Lord Jesus may but reign, his Truth triumph, and his Kingdom be exalted. Amen. Amen.  
FINIS.