FAITH In Five Fundamental Principles, Strongly Fortified against the Diabolical, Atheistical, blasphemous Batteries of these Times. Serving for the conviction of Opposers, the satisfaction of Doubters, and the Confirmation of Believers. In a Conference which a godly Independent Minister and a godly Presbyterian Minister had with a doubting Christian. By E. F. a seeker of the Truth. 2 COR. 13. 8. We can do nothing against the truth, but for the truth. LONDON, Printed for John Wright at the King's Head in the old Bailey. 1650. The Author to the Reader. LIke as it is good Military policy, when the Inhabitants of one City do hear and understand, that the common enemy hath not only assaulted, but also vanquished another City within the same Dominions, to use all the means they can to fortify themselves against him; even so do I conceive it to be good Christian policy, when one Christian doth hear and understand that the common enemy Satan, hath not only assaulted but also vanquished the faith of others, to use all the means he can to fortify his own. Therefore I being credibly given to understand that this foul Fiend hath vanquished the faith of some men, touching these five Fundamental Principles, did think it to be good policy in me, to use all the means I could to fortify my faith in them, by searching all the Magazines I could find for the best Ammunition therein contained, and to place it in the best order I could for my faith's defence. And having so done (considering it to be Ammunition of that nature as might be communicated to the defence of others, and yet be no less useful to myself, I thought it my duty to make it common by committing it to the Press. But yet alas what are all these humane persuasions grounded on reason, without the testimony of God's Spirit in our hearts, truly nothing. Let us therefore in the reading of these things, lift up our prayer to God for the powerful work of his Spirit to seal up unto our hearts the truth of these Principles. And the Lord grant our Petitions for his Mercies sake in Christ. Amen. FAITH in five Fundamental PRINCIPLES. INTERLOCUTORS, A moderate Independent Minister. A moderate Presbyterian Minister. And a tempted doubting Christian. Presbyterian. YOu are well met, good Mr. B. whither are you going so fast this way, if a man may know? Ind. Why truly Mr. H. I am going whither I wish you would go also; and that is to meet a man whom I am persuaded is truly godly, and yet by reason he hath been accustomed of late to frequent the meetings of divers erroneous persons, he seemeth to be somewhat tainted with divers of their erroneous opinions, at least to make question of divers fundamental truths, and is unsettled in his judgement; and my intent in going to meet with him, is to do mine endeavour to show him the truth, and settle him in the same▪ And truly, Sir, if your occasions will permit you, I think you shall do very well if you go with me, and afford us your assistance. Pres. But Sir, if we go shall we be sure to meet with him think you, and will he be willing to confer with us? Ind. Sir, the man seems to be of an humble spirit, and willing to see his errors and to know the truth, and it is his own desire that I should meet him this day at a convenient place not far hence, to answer his doubts. Pres. Well Sir, then will I defer the business which I was going about till to morrow, and go along with you 〈◊〉 you do desire it, and spend this afternoon with you. Ind. The hour he hath appointed for our meeting is one of the clock, and I think it is now about that time. Pres. Yea indeed I think it is. Ind. Well yonder's is the place, and yonder comes the man. Pres. Doth he meet you alone? Ind. Yea so it seems. Christ. Oh Sir are you come according to your promise, how much am I obliged unto you? Ind. Yea, I am not only come myself, but meeting with this godly Minister by the way, I have desired him to come along with me. Christ. Sir I humbly thank you, I know Mr. H. very well, and he is very welcome to me. Ind. Well now my loving friend, if you will be pleased to propound your doubts, we shall be ready to answer you as the Lord shall enable us. Christ. Why truly, Sir, as you know I hinted unto you before, I have lately been where many points of Divinity have been questioned and controverted, and some of them flatly denied, which hath made many scruples arise in my heart, and especially about five fundamental principles. Ind. What be they I pray you? Christ. Why truly I am afraid to name them, yet being I am in hope to receive satisfaction from you, I shall adventure to tell you: First, that I make some question, whether there be a God. Secondly, whether those Books which are called the Scriptures be the Word of God. Thirdly, Whether the Son and Holy Ghost be God? Fourthly, Whether the soul of man be immortal? And fifthly, Whether there shall be a resurrection of the body? And to tell you the truth, all these things are denied by some in whose company I have lately been. Ind. Surely it is a sad and lamentable thing that men in these days are grown to such a height of impiety, as flatly to deny these fundamental truths, and so as it were to pluck up the foundation itself; surely these men are mere Libertines and licentious men, for as the firm and strong believing of these first Principles, is the ground of our exact and even walking with God, so when men do not only question them, but also flatly deny them, it is the very road way to all wickedness and ungodliness; it is therefore time for us that are Ministers to labour to strengthen these Principles both in our own hearts, and in the hearts of others; but blessed be God, my friend, though you make some question of them, yet you do not flatly deny them, so that there is much more hopes of rooting out these seeds of Atheism out of your heart, than out of theirs who flatly deny them. Touching the being of the Godhead. And therefore I beseech you in the first place consider, that the first of these five Principles, to wit, That there is a God, may be most clearly demonstrated by plain natural reason; for, as Calvin truly saith, God hath planted in all men a certain understanding of his Divine Majesty, so that all men, none excepted do know there is a God; for indeed there is engraven in the minds of men a certain feeling of the Godhead. And to tell you truly, this Doctrine, That there is a God, is such a Doctrine as every man is a teacher thereof unto himself, even from his mother's womb; yea and such a Doctrine as the first use of reason is employed about, and which nature suffereth no man to forget: And although there have been some men so sapped in wickedness, that they have gone about to deface their own nature in themselves, and to the intent they might practise all wickedness without check of conscience, have striven to persuade themselves that there is no God to call them to an account, yet hath it been manifest by their conscience accusing them for their sins, though secretly committed, and by their quaking and trembling at the apprehension of death approaching, that their conscience have told them by a secret persuasion, that there is a God. And indeed it hath been observed by some of such as were professed Atheists, who though when they were in health and prosperity, were not afraid plainly to assert that there is no God, yet when they came to lie on their death beds, none seemed to be more afraid of a God, and at his power to judge and condemn them as these men have been. Whereupon Zenothe the Philosopher hath this saying, If I would persuade any man from Atheism, I would lead him to the bed of an Atheist, where he is gasping out his last breath. 1. And that it may more plainly appear unto you that this knowledge of the Godhead is rooted in nature, I beseech you consider that it is manifest by the practice of the very Heathen, for there hath never been heard of any Nation so barbarous, nor no people so savage since the beginning of the world, that ever were without some kind of Religion; let a man run from east to west, from north to south, let him ransack all ages one after another, and every Country, City, and Family, and wheresoever he findeth a man, there shall he also find some kind of Religion and serving of God; by the which it is evident, that all Nations do acknowledge a God, and that it is a general effect in the heart of every man living, and therefore it must needs come from a general cause; I mean when we find it in the hearts of all men in all Nations and ages, then must we needs conclude, that it is an universal effect written in the hearts of all men naturally, by the general Author of all things, and that is the very same whom we call God. 2. And I would entreat and beseech you also in the second place to consider, that God hath not only planted this knowledge of himself in the hearts and minds of men, but he hath also manifested himself in the whole workmanship of the world. For according to the testimony of the Apostle, Rom. 1. 19 there is disclosed unto man so much concerning God, as to leave him without excuse, because all men may throughly see his invisible things, even his very Power and Godhead by the very creation of the world; so that as the same Apostle doth intimate, Acts 17. 27. by the very things which we see, handle, and touch, we may know there is a God, for which way soever man turneth his eyes, there is no parcel of the world, be it never so small, wherein are not seen at least some sparkles of his Divine Image; so that I say unto you, if you do not shut your eyes you must needs see in the creatures a witness of the Godhead. 1. As for example, if you do but look upon yourself and consider whence you are, then must you needs acknowledge that you cannot have your being from yourself; for to have your being from yourself, were as much in effect as to be a God; but I hope you do not think you are a God, and that therefore you have not your being from yourself. Whence then had you your original? if you look to your father, and think you had it from him, then must you needs consider that your father had a father, and so from father to father till you come to the first man; and if you consider the first man, you must needs conclude that he could not make himself, for no creature can be the author of itself, for if it could, then should it be both the cause and effect, and so consequently be both before and after itself, which is impossible. This is most certain, that whatsoever hath a beginning is from another, for nothing that had a beginning can be the cause of itself: But you and all men had a beginning, and therefore from another; whence it must needs follow, that you and all men had a beginning, and that from him who is without beginning, who can be none other but the same whom we call God. 2. Secondly, if you do but consider the parts of your own body, and consider so many hundred bones one fitted to another with arteries and sinews knitting them together, their proportionable agreement and use, the excellent workmanship that is in all your members, the boiling of your meat and drink in your stomach, together with the disposing of part of it into neutrement, and part of it into excrement; as also the beauty, form, and comeliness of your body, you must needs confess, the working of these things to be wonderful, and done by a wonderful skilful workman; and that is the very same whom we call God. But to speak a little more familiarly unto you, suppose that you should arrive amongst the Indians, and there find but some silly Cottage in the desolatest place thereof, would you not thereupon conclude with yourself, surely this Land is inhabited, some man hath been here? Christ. Yea indeed, Sir, for I could not think that it could make itself, neither could I think that it could be made by any other creature then by man; and besides, I should therein see some tokens of man's wit, and therefore I must needs conclude that some man had been there. Ind. Now then consider, I beseech you, that there are in this world an hundred thousand things which could not make themselves, neither is it possible that they should be made by man, for here are many things whtch are impossible for man to know, and therefore impossible for him to make. For you know that he that makes a Clock or a Watch, or any such thing, must needs know all the wheels and all other parts thereof perfectly▪ or else he could not make them; but many things there are in the world which no man knows, and therefore could never make them. Whereupon I beseech you to conclude, That some wiser workmaster than any man hath made them; and that is the same whom we call God. Again, suppose you should come into some well ordered family or house, and see all things done according to a complete order, though you did not see any man for the present that you did conceive were of years and discretion to do it, yet would not you conclude that some wise Governor that cast these things into this order had been there? Christ. Yea indeed Sir, I must confess I should. Ind. Why then I beseech you to consider, that in this great house of the world there are a great multitude of men and beasts, and other things exceeding wisely ordered, yea so ordered, as all the wisdom and power of man could never do it. As for example, If you do but consider the excellent subordination of the creatures, you shall see a wonderful order; if you do but cast your eyes downward, and behold the lowest creature, in the earth, you shall perceive that when it is wet with the dew of heaven, it nourisheth the grass, and the grass serveth to nourish the beasts, and the beasts they do nourish and feed man; whereby you may perceive the combination and connexion that is amongst these creatures; and here you may see an order from one thing to another, and all to one end, all to serve man, and must you not then think and conclude, That man is to serve him who is the Author of this Order; and that is the very same whom we call God. And if you do but cast your eyes upward, you shall perceive such an heaven so beset and furnished with Sun, Moon, and Stars, as no man could make: And if you look into the fabric of the world, you shall in your apprehension behold one thing contrary to another, the water contrary to the fire, and dryness contrary to moisture; and the nature of contraries, is one to destroy another; and yet you may see these brought to such a comely agreement, that they do not entrench or usurp one upon another, but match together in the composing of many things. The Earth you know is heavy and massy, and very huge in bigness, and there is no solid thing to uphold it, nor pillar to support it, for it is founded upon the waters; and yet notwithstanding it is settled, or rather hung as a Ball in the Air, and stirreth not a whit. The Sea likewise doth continually threaten the Earth, and the nature thereof is to overflow the same, and yet we see it passeth not its bounds; now all these things considered, must it not needs follow that there is a great and sovereign power which over-ruleth all these things, who maketh them thus to keep their order; and who can that be, but only the God of Order? Thus my loving friend, you see that the whole world, with all that is therein, is a plain book laid open to all men, yea even for Children to read, and as it were to spell God therein; the consideration whereof caused one learned man Avicen. to say, that he who acknowledgeth not a Godhead, is void not only of reason, but also of sense; yea, and caused another learned man to Duples. say, that all men ought to be forbidden to call the being of a God into question, upon pain of being men any more. Many other lively Characters of the Godhead stamped upon the Creatures, might be held forth for the further confirmation thereof, but hoping that by this time you are convinced of this truth, I will proceed no further therein at this time. Chris. Indeed Sir I am so convinced, for I know not how to contradict what you have said; and therefore I pray you proceed to the next point, namely to prove that the Scriptures are the word of God. Touching the Scriptures, being the word of God. Pres. WEll Sir, in my judgement you have done exceeding well touching this point; And I hope not only done him good, but me also; for though I do believe that there is a God, yet I hope the hearing of these your arguments, will be a means to strengthen this my belief, and confirm this conclusion, and add more to this my assent. But now Sir to the intent that he may perceive that those whom they call Independent Ministers, and those whom they call Presbyterian Ministers, do not differ but agree in these Fundamentals, let me crave leave to speak to the next point, Ind. With a very good will Sir I beseech you do. Pres. Well then my good friend, I would pray you and beseech you, as you tender the everlasting welfare of your soul, to be persuaded in your heart, that those Books which are called the Scriptures, are the only word of that one God which Mr. B. hath I hope throughly convinced you of; and that they are that only writing whereby he hath showed even from the beginning, after what manner he will be worshipped and served. 1 And that I may with arguments also convince you of this truth▪ I do in the first place beseech you seriously to consider, that these Books are more ancient than any History in the world; I tell you truly that all Historians have been forced to confess, that the writings of Moses w●re before all other writings; and that the very latest of our old Testament writers, are of more antiquity than the ancientest Authors amongst the Heathen. Have you not read how Eupolimus, in his book of the Kings of jury, saith that Moses taught Letters to the jews, the jews to the Venetians, and the Venetians to the Greeks; also Diodorus of Sicilia, saith that he understood by the Egyptians, that Moses was the first Lawgiver of all; now the learned do agree, that the antiquity of the Scripture doth show and prove both the trueness and divineness of them. 2 And I would also in the second place, entreat you seriously to consider that the majesty and authority of the great God of heaven, doth wonderfully appear in the manner of the delivery of his mind in these books, no proem is there used, but thus saith the Lord, no reason is rendered, but I the Lord have spoken it: So that they do require credit to be given to the matter, only because the Lord hath spoken it; the duty of every man is therein required without respect of person, the King and Ruler is there told his duty aswell as the Subject, judgements are there threatened against the Rich man, as well as against the Poor; there are duties prescribed to the inner man, as well as to the outward man; they require obedience in heart, as well as obedience in life, they prescribe laws to the thoughts to which no man can pierce, they forbidden lusting and coveting, which no writing of man doth. Now who can prescribe laws to the heart and thoughts, but only he who knows the heart and thoughts, and that is God only. And in the third place, I would also be-beseech you seriously to consider, that the matter contained in those books which we call the Scriptures, doth wholly tend to the exalting of God, and debacing of man, the power, wisdom, justice and mercy of God, is abundantly set forth in these books, and so is man's vanity and weakness, yea the greatest sins, and foulest faults of Gods own people are there left upon record; yea the penmen of these books, were so void of all carnal affections in their writings, that they neither spared themselves, nor their dearest and nearest friends in their writings; an example whereof you may see in Moses, Numb. 27. 13. 14. Deut. 32. 51. Exod. 6. 20. Num. 12. 1. And also in the Apostle Paul, 1 Tim. 1. 13. from whence we may truly frame this argument: That that Doctrine which tends to the advancement of God's glory, and the debacing of man must needs be of God, for man's Doctrine doth always tend to his own glory, but the Doctrine contained in those books which we call the Scripture, do wholly tend to the glory of God, and the debacing of man, as you have heard; and therefore we must needs conclude they are the word of God. 4 And in the fourth place I would beseech you to consider, that the Doctrine contained in those books which we call the Scriptures, are both above and opposite to the wisdom and will of man, as he is by nature; so that it is not only above the natural power of man to understand them, but also directly contrary to his will, to yield obedience thereunto; there is neither precept nor prohibition contained in these books that is agreeable to man's natural disposition, but directly contrary thereunto; there is no man that is acquainted with, and taketh notice of the disposition of his own heart, but he finds by experience that naturally he bears little love to the Scriptures, and that by the little delight he hath to read or meditate therein; nay do we not see, that for the most part, those young men and others that have nothing in them but flesh and blood, had rather read in any vain book, then in the Bible; whence we may truly frame this argument, That that Doctrine which is directly contrary to the wisdom and will of man, must needs be of God; for man's Doctrine is always agreeable to the wisdom and will of man; but the Doctrine conained in those books which we call the Scripture, is directly opposite and contrary to the wisdom and will of man, and therefore these books must needs be of God. 5 And in the fifth place I would beseech you to consider, that the Doctrine contained in these books which we call the Scriptures, is altogether heavenly, and savoureth nothing of an earthly and worldy affection, but every where renounceth and condemneth the same; they do wholly tend to the withdrawing of man from all earthly things, and to the leading of him to salvation in God; these Books do point out unto man, wherein true and eternal blessedness doth consist, and how he may attain unto it; there he may see how man by sin became the enemy of God; and how he may be reconciled unto God, and saved eternally; there he may see the incomprehensible love of God in Jesus Christ towards man. Whence we may truly frame this argument, That that Doctrine which tendeth to the withdrawing of man from all earthly things, and to the leading of him to salvation in God, must needs be of God; but the Doctrine contained in those books which we call the Scriptures, do wholly tend to that end, and therefore they must needs be of God. 6 And in the Sixth place I would beseech you to consider, that the prophesies contained in those books which we call the Scriptures, are not general, doubtful, and obscure, as the Oracles of the heathen are, but particular and plain, such as express the persons and things by their names, as you may see, 1 King. 13. 2, 3. Isa. 45. 1. I tell you truly, if we do compare the prophecies contained in Scripture, with the fulfilling of, them we shall perceive that they cannot be attributed to any thing else saving the inspiration of the most wise God, as may sufficiently appear by the comparing the prophecies of the old Testament touching Christ; the calling of the Gentiles, and rejection of the Jews, with the accomplishment of them in the new; besides the foretelling of things to come so precizely, and manifestly, and so long before hand, and the fulfilling of them at the very instant of time foretell, doth abundantly show that these books are not of man but of God. 7 And in the seventh place I would entreat you to consider, that there is in those books which we call the Scriptures a most holy and heavenly consent, and agreement of all the parts thereof together, though written in sundry Ages, by sundry men in sundry places; by the which it is manifest that God guided all their hearts in writing of them. 8 And in the eighth and last place, I would entreat you to consider, that these books which we call the Scriptures, have ever been hated and opposed by the Devil and all wicked men; they have had many and mighty enemies, and adversaries, who have endeavoured by all the means they could, utterly to extinguish them, yet could they never do it; and though the raging floods of the Roman Tyrants, have overflowed these books, yet could they never drown them, no nor yet deface them; they have been condemned to the fire, yet could they never be burnt, but have ever been preserved by the wonderful providence of God, in despite of the Devil and all wicked men, which must needs put all out of doubt, that these books are not from man, but from God. Ind. Indeed Mr. H. you have spoken to this point according to mine own heart; and I hope he is convinced, that the Scriptures are the word of God; and I shall be glad to hear you speak to the next point also. Pres. O no Mr. B. if I speak to one, I beseech you, do you speak to another. Touching the Deity of the Son, and Holy Ghost. Ind. Well then if it must be so, than I beseech you my friend consider that the Deity of the Son and holy Ghost, is clearly and manifestly proved by the Testimony of holy Scripture; and first as touching the deity of the Son, I would entreat you to consider that there are in Scripture many such things ascribed unto him, as cannot be properly ascribed unto any but God only; do you not know that in Joh. 3. 31. Heb. 1. 3. Joh. 15. 16. & 17. he is said to be Omnipotent, and to have the same equal power with the Father; and how could he be so, if he were not God? And do you not know that in Mat. 9 6. Mar. 2. 5, 7, 9 It is said that he forgiveth sins by his own proper power and authority? and who can do that but God only? And do you not know that in Mat. 9 4, 5. Mar. 2. 8. He is said to know the secrets of man's heart; and who can do that but God only? And do you not know that in Col. 1. 16. he is said to be the Creator of all things? and in Heb 1. 3. he is said to be the upholder of all things; and who can do that but God only? and do you not know that in Mat. 14. 25. he is said to walk upon the waters; and can any do that of himself, but God only. And so in very deed we find all his actions whilst he lived here on earth, to make sufficient proof, that he was God aswell as man; for though we read Luk. 2. 7. that he was borne of his mother, and wraped in swaddling Clouts, as he was man; yet we read Mat. 2. 11. That the Star doth manifest him, and the wisemen do worship him as he was God; And though we read, Mat. 3. 16. that he was Baptised in jordan as he was man; yet the same verse tells us, that the holy Ghost descends on him from heaven, as he was God. And though we read, Mat. 4. 1. that he was tempted of the Devil as he was man; yet we also read verse 10. that he overcomes and expels the Devil as he was God. And though it be said joh. 4. 6. Mat. 21. 18. joh. 19 28. that he was weary, hungry, and thirsty as he was man; yet is it also said Mat. 11. 28. joh. 6. 35. joh. 7. 37. that he refresheth the weary, is the bread of life for the hungry, and giveth drink to the thirsty as he is God; and though we read, Luk. 8. 23. 24. That he sleeps in the Ship, and his disciples awake him as he is man; yet we read in the same place, that he rebuketh the wind, and the raging of the waters as he is God; And though we read, Mat. 26. 37. that he was sorrowful and heavy, and wept, joh. 11. 35. as he was man; yet do we also read, joh. 14. 1. 18. that he comforteth his sorrowful and heavy Disciples as he was God; and though it be said Mat. 27. that he cried out, my God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? as he was man; yet it is also said, Luke 23. 43. that he comforteth the good Thief immediately after, saying, This day shalt thou be with me in Paradise, as he was God; and though we read, Mat. 27. 50. 60. that he died, and was laid in the Grave as he was man, yet do we also read, joh. 10. 18. Luk. 24. 6. that he had power to raise, yea and did raise himself to life again as he was God; though we read Luk. 24. 15. 31. that he talks, and walks, and eats with his Disciples after his Resurrection, as he was man; yet we also read, Act. 1. 9 that he ascended up into Heaven, as he was God. And this I hope is sufficient to convince you of the Godhead of the second person in Trinity, called the Son. And that the third person in Trinity called the holy Ghost is also God, is likewise evident and clear from Scripture; and that first of all from the testimony of Moses, Gen. 1. 2. where he showeth, that even before the Creation, the spirit of God was busied in the preserving of the confused lump of things, which doth sufficiently demonstrate that he is God. And how fully doth the Prophet Isaiah confirm it, Chap. 48. verse 16. saying, And now the Lord God and his Spirit hath sent me. And when it said in the 6. Chap. and third verse of the same prophecy, that the Angel did acknowledge one God whom they worship to be holy, and do three times, one answering another, style him so, surely they do thereby show the mystery of the Trinity. And it is evident by their writings, that ancient Jews before Christ did note this mystery of the Trinity, in their exposition of the word jehovah, adding moreover, that this mystery was to be kept secret, until the coming of the Messiah, who should more clearly reveal it. And indeed not only the Deity of the Son, but also of the holy Ghost, is far more clearly manifested in the new Testament then in the Old, for the same person whom the Prophet Isaiah, Chap. 6. 3. 5. calleth jehovah. The Apostle Paul repeating the very same words, Act. 28. 25. saith it was the holy Ghost that spoke them. And whereas all the Prophets in the Old Testament, do ordinarily say, Thus saith the Lord; the Apostles in the new Testament do ordinarily say, Thus saith the holy Ghost, Act. 21. 11. and the holy Ghost said, Act. 13. 12. And the holy Ghost testifieth, Act. 20. 21. and so in like manner, the author to the Hebrews, repeating that saying, Psal. 95. 7. To day if ye will hear his voice, brings them in thus, Wherefore as the holy Ghost saith, Heb. 3. 7. And whereas the Lord tells Moses Exod. 4. 11. That it is he alone which giveth to man a mouth, and wisdom to speak; the Apostle Paul tells us, 1 Cor. 12. 10. that it is the Spirit which giveth it to man. And so in the new Testament we find, that as unto the second person, so unto the third, are ascribed the very same name, artributes and works, which properly belong unto God; as for instance, if you look into 1 Cor. 3. 16, 17. you shall find that the Apostle doth give unto the Spirit of God, the very name of God, telling the believing Corinthians, that they are the Temple of God, because the holy Ghost dwelleth in them; and if you look into 2 Cor. 6. 16, 17, 18. you shall find that the Apostle calls the holy Ghost the Lord almighty; and if you look into Act. 5. 3. you shall find that the Apostle Peter telleth Annanias, that he had lied unto the holy Ghost, and that he might give him to understand, that the holy Ghost is God, he telleth him verse. 5. that he had lied unto God; and if you look into Act. 10. you shall find that in one place it is said, that Cornelius was warned of God to send for Peter; and in another place you shall find, that the holy Ghost himself telleth Peter that he had sent him; and if you look into 1 Cor. 2. 10. you shall find the Apostle telling you, that the Spirit searcheth all things, even the secret or deep things of God. Now if to search the heart of man, and to know the secrets thereof, be proper to God only, as you may see it is jer. 17. 10. much more to know the secrets of God, is proper to God only; and if you look into Heb. 9 14. you shall find that eternity is attributed unto the holy Ghost, in that the Apostle in express terms calleth him the eternal Spirit; and if you look into 1 Cor. 12. 9, 10. you shall find that the power which the Apostles had to work miracles and wonders, was from the holy Ghost; now it is proper to God only, to work miracles and wonders, and therefore the holy Ghost must needs be God. To conclude, if you look into 1 Pet. 5. 10. you shall find that God is styled the God of all Graces; and if you look into Ephe. 5. 9 and into Gal. 5. 22. you shall find that all graces in the faithful are the fruits of the spirit of God, whereby it is evident, that the spirit of God is God; & thus you see it is evident by scripture, that both the Sun and holy Ghost are God equal with the Father, and that there are three persons in one Divince Essence. Christ. I know Sir, that you Ministers do speak and write much of the mystery of the Trinity, and that there are three persons, and yet but one God, and that none of the three persons are greater or lesser than the other, nor none before or after other, but for my part I cannot conceive how it can be, and therefore cannot believe it. Ind. But you ought to believe it, because the Scripture doth so fully prove it, though you cannot conceive how it can be; nevertheless for the helping of you to conceive how it can be, I pray you consider that it is manifest by God's effects and do, that there is in him a working nature or power, and in every of his works, there is a singular cunning and a wonderful order; whence it is evident that there is in God, a sovereign understanding; and there is nothing in God, that is not his very essence or being, whereupon it followeth that God, not only hath understanding, but that his understanding is his very essence, that is, he is very understanding itself, and that from everlasting; and God is a mere doing, and therefore this his understanding must needs be everlastingly doing; and what can it meet withal from everlasting, to be exercised upon but itself, therefore of necessity this understanding of God, must needs yield a reflection back again to itself, and so conceive and beget in itself, a perfect image of its own self; which indeed is the very same thing, which in the Trinity we call the Son, or the word namely, the lively and perfect image and wisdom of the Father; and in regard that this understanding in God is everlastingly doing, this second person must needs be everlasting; and in regard that the being of the Father, and his understanding are both one, and his very essence, therefore the being of the secong person, who is begotton by the Father's understanding, or minding of himself, must needs be the same; whereupon we may conclude, that look what the Father is, the same is the Son, only they differ in the way of relation Again in the second place, I pray you consider, that in God there is not only an understanding, but also a will; and this will so fare as we be able to discern it by the effects, is a certain ability, whereby he applieth his workfull power; and this will is his very essence, as well as his understanding, & is still a doing, as well as his understanding from all eternity; and therefore as his understanding by a certain reflection of itself upon itself, hath begotten us a second person, whom we call the Son; so this will which worketh everlastingly, having none other thing to work upon but itself, doth also by his working strick bacl upon itself, and delighteth itself in that infinite good which it knoweth there, and so sheddeth out itself wholly to the loving thereof; and by this action it bringeth us forth a third person, whom we call the Spirit or holy Ghost: That is to say, the mutual kindness, and lovingness of the Father towards the Son, and of the Son towards the Father, of the Father the understander, towards the Son conceived and begotten, by his understanding; and of the Son bacl again towards the Father, acknowledging all that he hath, and all that he is to be of the Father; now because there always goes some act of the understanding before the act of the will, therefore we say the third person is not only from the will, but also from the understanding; and because he is from two, and that by act of will, and understanding, therefore we term him proceeding and not begotten; and because the third person proceedeth of God's will and understanding, and Gods will and understanding is his essence, and of his essence can nothing proceed which is not his essence, it must needs follow, that the third person is not only coeternal, and coequal, but also coessentially; for as to be, and to understand are all one in God, so to will and to understand are all one in him; and so all three come into one essence; so that as we have God of God, that is to say the Son of the Father, by the everlasting in working of the understanding; so have we also God of God again, that is to say, the holy Ghost, or love of them both, by the joint working of the understanding and will together; whereupon we conclude three distinck persons, or in beings in one essence; and though we say, speaking after the manner of men, that the act of the understanding goeth before the act of the will; yet are we not to imagine any going before, or coming after in these persons, but only to lay forth these things according to the order of nature. And now by this time, I hope you do perceive the evident footstepts of three in beings, or persons in one essence. Chris. But Sir, the thing which I must desire to hear, is some resemblance of these things in the Creatures. Indep. If you would have resemblance of these things in the Creatures, than I pray you consider, that the Sun begetteth his one beams, which the Poets do call the Sun of the Sun; and from them two proceedeth light, which imparteth itself to all things here beneath; and yet is not the one of them before the other; for neither is the Sun before his beams, or the Sun or his beams before the light, otherwise then in consideration of order and relation, in that the beams are begotten, and the light is proceeding, which is an apparent image of what I have said. Likewise in waters, we have the head of them in the Earth, and the Spring boiling out of it, and the stream which is made of them both, and sheddeth itself far from thence; yet it is but oneself same continual and unseparable essence, which hath neither foreness nor afterness in regard of time, but only in regard of order, and our considerations of it; for the well head is not a head, but in respect of the Spring; nor the Spring a Spring, but in respect of the well head; nor the Stream a Stream, but in respect of them both; and so all three be but one water, and cannot almost be considered without one another; which is also an express mark of the original relations, and persons coessential in the only one essence of God; other resemblances hereof might be showed; but I hope by this time, you do behold this mystery more clearly; and therefore thus much shall suffice to have been spoken touching this point. Touching the Immortality of the Soul. Pres. SIr, you have in my judgement spoken to this point most briefly, and plainly; and yet fully I hope for his conviction; And now it falling to my lot to speak to the next point, I say unto you my dear friend, that as touching the immortality of the soul, I hope you will now give credit to the Scripture; And therefore I would entreat you seriously to consider, that this truth is confirmed Eccle. 12. 7. where the wise man telleth us, that at death the dody returns to the dust, and the spirit to God that gave it; and therefore assuredly the soul dyeth not with the body, but is immortal. And in Act. 7. 59 it is said that when the martyr Stephen was at the point of death, he cried out Lord Jesus receive my Spirit, meaning thereby none other thing, but when that his soul should departed out of his body, Christ Jesus shoul be the perpetual keeper of it; and therefore assuredly it died not with the body, but is immortal. And in Luk. 23. 43. it is recorded, that when our Saviour hung upon the Cross, he said unto the good Thief, This day shalt thou be with me in Paradise; whence I pray you take notice, that he could not be there with him in the body, for that was immediately dead and buried; therefore the meaning must needs be, that his soul was gathered with the soul of Christ into Paradise, and so consequently it died not with the body. And in Phil. 1. 23. the Apostle said, that he desired to be dssolved, and to be with Christ; by the which it is evident that he was assured, that so soon as his spirit did take leave of his body, he should be happy in the enjoyment of the Lord Jesus Christ. And doth not the same Apostle plainly witness the same truth, 2 Cor. 5. 8. in saying when the souls of believers are absent from the body, they are present with the Lord? And doth not the Apostle Peter likewise seal to the same truth, 2 Pet. 1. 14. In giving us to understand, that there was some thing in his bodily tabernacle which must not be put off, which could be none other thing but his soul; and we may assure ourselves, that if the soul did die with the body, our Saviour would never have brought in the soul of Lazarus joying in Abraham's bosom after his death, nor yet the soul of the Rich man in Hell torments, Luk. 16. 23. Many other testimonies of holy Scripture might be bought for the further confirmation of this truth, but I hope these are sufficient. Chris. But Sir, because I could never yet see either in myself, or in any other man, any thing but a body; I could never conceive what a thing the soul should be, nor how it differeth from the body; and indeed this hath made me of late to be of their judgements, who hold that the soul and body are both one, and that the soul dyeth with the body. Pres. Well, to the intent that I may clear these things unto you, I pray you first of all to consider, that Moses telleth us Gen. 2. 7. That after the Lord had form man's body of the dust of the earth, he breathed into his nostrils the brtath of life, whereby you may perceive that the soul is of a spiritual nature, and an uncorruptible substance, and not a body. In the creation of the soul, saith a learned Author, The almighty Author of the French Acad. made a blast, not of his own nature, nor of his Creature the Air, but even of nothing, and so new in the ordinary generation of man, the soul is placed in the body, not by virtue of nature, it is not begotten or produced by nature, but properly and peculiarly by the special working of God; so that although the soul liveth and dwelleth in the body, sustaining and moving it; yet it is a certain substance several from the body; and though the body hath no life in itself, and therefore cannot subsist without the soul, yet can the soul subsist and live, and preserve itself in its substance, after that it is separated from the body; the soul is therefore so far from dying, and corrupting with the body, that it keepeth it alive and uncorrupt whilst it is in the body, and doth live, move and understand, after that it is out of the body, and though you see nothing but the body, yet by the doing of the soul, you may perceive there is a soul, and what the soul is; for the soul being of a spiritual nature, as aforesaid, and not a bodily, we cannot see it in its own substance or nature, nor have any knowledge thereof, but by the testimony of the word, and by the effects thereof. Chris. Well then Sir, as you have been pleased to give me some light and knowledge of the soul, by the testimony of the Word; so I beseech you do your endeavour, to add somewhat more to my knowledge, by showing unto me what be the effects of the soul. Pres. Well friend, seeing you do desire it, I shall by the Lord's assistance endeavour to let you see this truth more clearly, by natural reasons drawn from the effects of the soul; for the truth is, natural reasons are as beams of the light of God's Word, and helps that may greatly further us in the understanding of the soul's immortality. 1. And therefore in the first place, I beseech you take notice, that if you do consider of that eternity which was before the creation of the world, your thought is not able to comprehend it; but if you do enter into consideration of times, which shall still follow after us unto all eternity, you shall find yourself better able to comprehend that, and have a more clear insight into it, which shows that although your soul is not eternal in regard of beginning; yet is it eternal and immortal in regard of end, and was created to live an eternal life. Secondly, I pray you consider, that in as much as man's soul was not created with his body, as the souls of beast were, and that it is not now begotten by way of ordinary generation, as the souls of all living Creatures are, we are thereby taught, that God did not intent, that any thing in nature should extinguish man's soul, nor destroy it; for if he had so intended, then would he have created, and have ordered it to have come into men by way of ordinary generation, as he hath done touching all other living Creatures that are mortal; and therefore we may hence undoubtly conclude, that man's soul is immortal. Thirdly, I beseech you seriously to consider, that the souls of beasts do only desire things present; and their desire of some present good, proceedeth not from any knowing virtue that is in them, but only from a sensible virtue; for though beasts have a soul whereby they live and move, yet is not their soul partaker of understanding; but man naturally hath knowledge of an eternity, yea and a disposition to believe it, and to conceive it to be a good and profitable thing for him, and thereupon doth he desire it, as it is evident by that man naturally hath to live, (if it were possible) always; There is not saith a learned Author, so base a mind to be Duples. truness' Christ. Religion. found, which coveteth not to live for ever; and because they see by the daily examples of mortality, that they themselves must die, therefore they do endeavour to make their names eternal as much as may be, as doth evidently appear by their care of, and love to, their issue and posterity; and by their endeavouring to do some extraordinary act, in their life time, worthy of eternal fame; and by their Tombs and Sepulchers which they build, to make their names as eternal as they can; and to what end should man desire this, if there were not a possibility of attaining it? nay we may assure ourselves, that God would not have implanted this natural desire in man, but that there is such a thing attainable by man; for if he had plainted in man a desire of a thing unattainable, he had dealt worse with man than he hath done with beasts, who neither know nor believe, nor desire any such thing; from whence we may also conclude, that our souls being created immortal, they do well conceive of an immortality, or an everlastingness without end. Fourthly, I would beseech you seriously to consider, that the brute beasts do fear a present evil of punishment, in this life only, but man naturally doth fear the evil of punishment, after the end of his life; for there is a natural impression stamped in man, that vice must be punished after death, as it is evident in that there was never any nation so barbarous, but they were observed naturally to put a difference betwixt virtue & vice, so far forth as they knew it; and so to have joy and content when they practised virtue, and to have fear and sorrow when they practised vice; and that neither for hope of reward, nor fear of punishment in this life; And I dare boldly say, that if a Man who hath committed some gross sin, should be by reason of the secrecy in the committing of it, be confident that it should never be so much as known to any one man, woman or child, in the time of this life, yet could he not be without fear, whensoever he thought upon it. And what though some Epicures among us, are for the present so swallowed up in the pleasures of this life, that they have no thought of being called to an account for their sins, either in this life, or at the end of this life; yet when did you ever hear of any such man, that hath not at the hour of death been afraid of the judgement to come? for mine own part, I am confident that there was never any man, that when he apprehended death near approcahing, could then persuade his Conscience that his Soul was mortal, and should die with his body, but then (though it may be too late) he gins to think within himself what shall become of his soul; and could then with all his heart, wish that he had lived the life of the righteous; and why is all this? but because man naturally doth believe that his soul is immortal, and shall come to judgement. Fifthly, I would also beseech you seriously to consider, that although man's body, I mean his sensual appeitite, can with the sensual appetite of beasts, find rest and content inearthly things here below, yet is his soul in a perpetual motion, and can find no rest nor content in any earthly thing; and that because it hath a secret longing desire after God, though it know it not; for as a child that is new borne, doth by a natural instinct, in strength of desire cry after the dug, and yet knoweth not what it wanteth, even so man's poor soul doth desire God; and yet through the blindness of his understanding, it knoweth not what it wanteth; and like as if an ignorant nurse should offer the child such food as its tender age is not capable of receiving, it would not be contented, but would still in strength of desire, cry after the dug; even so though a man should offer his soul a world of Creatures, yet will they not content it; for I dare boldly say, that no earthly-minded man ever met with so much profits, pleasures, or honours in this world, as did fully content and satisfy him; indeed man's sensual appetite may feed upon earthly delights, and be as it were filled with the creature; but what can fill man's mind? not all the world; for 'tis certain saith a learned and godly Mr. Boulton discourse true hap. Author, though one man were not only crowned with the sovereignty of all the Kingdoms of the earth, but besides were made commander of the motions of the Sun, and the glory of the Stars; yet the restless eye of man's unsatisfied understanding, would peep and pry beyond the heavens, for some hidden excellency, and supposed felicity, which the whole compass of this created World cannot yield; so unquenchable is the thirst of man's soul, until it bathe itself in the River of life, and the immeasurable Ocean of goodness (viz) until it lives in him, and of him, in whom all things do live, and by whom all things are upheld. Now then as in natural things, we may know by their motion where is their resting place; even so by the motion of man's soul toward God, we may certainly conclude that God is the resting place thereof, which indeed is a sure testimony, that man's soul is an immortal essence, and so shall never die. Sixthly and lastly, I would pray you to consider, that although man's body may decay, die, and perish if it want corporal food, yet will not his soul; for what can make the soul decay, die, and perish? can want of corporal food? No, for it can skill to feed upon things above the world; for the mind of man is so nimble, that even by way of view, it feedeth upon all things; take from it sensible things, and the things of the understanning remain with it still, bereave it of all earthly things, and the heavenly remain abundantly, and then it feedeth at greatest ease, and makes best cheer agreeable to its own nature; th● plain truth is, the soul lives best when it is most freest from all things in this world; it is well known that those who want their eyesight, have their minds most apt to understand, and most firm to remember, because their eyes are not busied about the beholding of outward objects, and when we shut our eyes, then are we best able to conceive of things spiritual in our minds; yea, and if we consider the matter well, we shall find that when our senses are most quenched, then doth our soul most labour to surmount herself; and the more the body decreaseth, the more doth the soul increase, as it is commonly seen when a man draweth nigh unto death, the soul hath then the most care of her own eternal welfare, in so much as it hath been observed, that when a body hath been very far spent, bare, consumed and withered, so that whosoever looks upon it sees nothing but earth, yet such a man hath been heard speak most spiritually and heavenly. Now when a man doth behold such a lively soul, in so weak and withered a body; may he not say as it is said of hatching of Chickens, the shell is broken, but there cometh forth a Chicken? & may he not hence conclude, that for the soul to continue in its being, it hath no need of the body? nay may he not hence conclude more than this, namely for the soul to work and do well, it ought either to be without the body, or else to be utterly unsubject to the body? and that the full and perfect life of the soul, is the full and utter withdrawing thereof from the body, and whatsoever the body is made of; for though the soul be the form of the body, yet it being no material form, the more it is discharged of the matter, the more it retains its own peculiar form. To conclude then, seeing that the nature, the nourishment, and the actions of our souls are so far different from the nature, nourishment, and actions of our bodies, and from all that is done, or wrought by our bodies; can there be any thing more childish, then to imagine our souls to be mortal, because of the mortality of our bodies? And now my good friend, I hope by this time, your soul hath so beheld herself, in the glass of her own marvellous actions, that she will henceforth conclude herself to be immortal. Touching the Resurrection of the body. Christ. WEll Sir, I do acknowledge that you have very sufficiently proved the immortality of the soul; and now if Mr. B. will be pleased to prove the Resurrection of the body, than we shall have done. Ind. Surely friend, the Scripture is exceeding full and clear for this point; and therefore I pray you first of all consider, that Job saith in plain terms, Job. 19 25. I know my redeemer liveth, and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth: and though after my skin worms destroy my body, yet in my flesh I shall see God. Now doth not this Scripture plainly hold forth, under us the certainty of the Resurrection of the body, in that this holy man doth profess, he doth believe that he shall see God with these very eyes, at that day; And I would also entreat you to consider, that the prophet Isai. saith, Chapter 26, 19 Thy dead men shall live etc. In which words, the prophet speaks of the Resurrection of the Saints, giving us to understand that all those Saints who die, and whose bodies are laid in the dust, all those shall certainly rise again to life; And I would also beseech you to consider that in Ezek. 37. the Prophet speaks most excellency of the Resurrection of the dead, in showing that a spirit of life and power, shall come upon the dry bones and dust of the Saints, and that they shall live in the presence of God; And I would also entreat you seriously to consider, that the prophet Daniel telleth us, that many who sleep in the dust shall awake, Some to everlasting life, and some to everlasting shame and contempt: And surly our Saviour doth confirm the same, by uttering almost the same words, Joh. 5. 28. 29. saying, They that are in the Graves shall here the voice of the Son of man, and shall come forth; they that have done good to the resurrection of life, and they that have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation. And consider I beseech you, that Jesus Christ himself is risen from the dead, and doubtless he did not rise as a private person; he did not rise privately for himself, but as a public person, representing all the faithful; and hence it is that the Apohle saith, 1 Cor. 15. 13. If there be no resurrecteon of the dead, then is Christ not risen. And again in the same Chapter, verse 19 he concludes, that if there be no resurrection of the dead, than the faithful are of all men most miserable. But saith the same Apostle to the comfort of the Thessalonians, who seemed to make some question of the Resurrection, if we believe that Jesus Christ died and risen again, even so them also that 1 Thes. 4. 29. sleep in Jesus Christ will he bring with him. And I beseech you also to consider, that it is said Revel. 20. 21, 15. And I saw the dead both great and small stand before God, and the Sea gave up her dead which were in her, and death and hell delivered up the dead. To conclude, I would pray you to mind the Argument which our Saviour useth to prove the Resurrection of the dead Mat 22. 32. in saying, God is the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. And God is not the God of the dead, but of the living. But he should not be the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jocob; if they should not rise again from the dead, many other places of Scripture might be brought for the further confirmation of this truth if it were needful, and especially out of the new Testament, for in very deed there is no Doctrine more plainly and fully taught in the new Testament, than the Doctrine of the Resurrection; and therefore unless we will make both Christ and his Apostles liars, and all the Ministers of the Gospel's Cheaters, Jugglers and Deceivers of the people; we must needs acknowledge the Resurrection of the body; and sooth, if there were no Resurrection, the most just and righteous God should seem to be unjust, and unrighteous, who many times in the time of this life, doth not reward the godly as he hath promised, nor punish the wicked as he hath threatened; and hence it is that the Apostle saith, 2 Thes. 1. 6. it is a righteous thing with God, to recompense tribulation to them that trouble the Saints, and to them that are troubled, rest when the Lord Jesus Christ shall be reveled from Heaven. Chris. But I cannot conceive how it is possible, that when our bodies are consumed to dust, they should be raised again; and besides, some men's body have been drowned in the Sea and eaten of Fishes, how then is it possible that all men should rise again as you say? Ind. Though it be impossible with men, yet it is not impossible with God, for with him all things are possible, yea not only possible, but also easy: and therefore I beseech you be persuaded of it, as an undoubted truth; that that God who in the beginning was able to create all things of nothing, is much more able to make every man's body at the Resurrection of his own matter, for doubtless it is a harder matter for him to make man of nothing out of the dust; and although until the day of Judgement, the dust of all men buried, do lie in Common together in the bowels of the earth, and that also with the dust of beasts; yet if a man skilful in seeds, be able to separate one seed from another; and if a man skilful in mettles, be able to separate and distinguish the earth and dust of Gold from the earth and dust of Silver, and so of other metals; then surely the great and wise Creator of man, Seeds and Metals, and all things else, is able to distinguish the dust of men from the dust of beasts, and the dust of one man's body from the dust of another; and though the bodies of some men be burnt to ashes, and the bodies of other devoured of wild beasts, and others drowned in the Sea, and eaten of Fishes; yet God is able, and will certainly gather together in one, every man's body, and they shall all receive that substance which belongeth to them, so that there shall not be an heir of their head wanting to any one of them. Chris. But Sir, can you show me any resemblance of the resurrection in nature. Ind. Yea, we have many resemblances thereof in nature, for what doth the world daily, in the elements and creatures thereof, but imitate our Resurrection; as for example, do we not see by the degrees of times, the whithering and failing of the leaves from the trees, the intermission of their fruits etc. And behold upon the sudden, from a dry and dead tree, by a kind of Resurrection the leaves break forth again, the fruits wax bigh and ripe, and the whole tree appareled with a fresh beauty; consider we also the little seed, whereout the tree ariseth, and let us comprehend if we can, how in that smallness of seed, so mighty a tree can be where were the Wood, the Bark, the glory of the beams, the plenty of the fruit, when we first sowed it, when we first threw it into the ground, were any of these things apparent? no they were not, what marvel is it then, if of the dust of the earth, God at his pleasure remark man, when from the smallest seeds he is able to produce so big a tree; do we not also see the dying of the day daily into night, and freshly arising again in the morning, as if it had never died. Aagin, do we not see that before the Corn can grow and bear fruit, it must be first cast into the ground, and there rot; and even as it springeth up again, and the Lord giveth to every grain it's own body, even so at the Resurrection shall every man be raised up with his own body. And again, both Philosophers and Divines tell us, that the Phoenix is first consumed to ashes by the heat of the Sun, and that afterwards of her ashes ariseth a young one. Lastly, to mention no more, the swallows, worms, and Fishes, which have lain dead in the winter; yet in the spring time, by virtue of the heat of the Sun, they revive again; thus you see that the whole Creation doth as it were writ a Cmmentary, to give us assurance of the Resurrection of the dead, and so I hope this may suffice to assure you of the Resurrection. Chris. Well Gentlemen; I must confess you have said more for the confirmation of the truth of these points, than I had thought could have been said, and I hope that my heart shall be hereby the better established therein whilst I live, and with many thanks unto you both for your pains, I take my leave of you. Ind. Far you well good friend, and the Lord write the truth of these points In your heart, by the power of his own Spirit. Pres. The Lord be with you, and grant that what we have said, may take deep impression both in your heart and ours, that we may be fully confirmed in the truth of these points. Amen, FINIS.