AN HVE-AND-CRY after VOX POPULI.  
OR, An Answer to VOX DIABOLI, or a Libellous Pamphlet falsely styled Vox Populi; reviling the Magistracy and Ministry of NORWICH.  
Wherein is laid down, The truth of the Rise and progress of the said Ministers of Norwich, their late REMONSTRANCE.  
Together with the deceitful dealing of the INDEPENDENT faction in getting hands to their Petition there annexed, and their juggling in other Petitions in that City. As also what entertainment their Petition found in the Court of Majoralty and Committee for the County.  
Together with the entertainment of this Scurrilous Pamphlet in that City  
Joh. 8.44. Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father you will do: He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth because there is no truth in him; when he speaketh a lie, he speaketh it of his own, for he is a liar and the father of it.  
Pro. 12.19. A lying tongue is but for a moment.  
Pro. 10.8. A prating fool shall fall.  
Printed for Edward Martin, Book-seller in Norwich, at the sign of the upper half moon in the Market-place. 1646.   

To the READER.  
REader,  
Though I were neither a Prophet, nor the Son of a Prophet, nor the friend of a Prophet; I could not endure to see so much dirt thrown in the face of all Authority, & not pull out my handkerchief, though but to offer to wipe it off. These few lines in answer to this scurrilous Pamphlet, are onely to stay thy stomach, till those Reverend men that are abused in it, have leisure to satisfy thee, themselves. This is onely an Hue-and-Cry to discover they will bring the indictment against the Malefactor. I thought any cost was too much with this Haberdasher of small wears. Thou hast here the truth: though it be naked, cover it with Charity. I had no leisure to put it on, a gay coat of rhetoric. 'Tis plain, but there is no deceit in the web. less than this; my charity could not: More then this; my patience would not endure. he barked so loud, I could not but throw him a bone to gnaw: A choke; till some discreeter hand bring him an Halter. Reader, I am an hater of lying and deceitful lips, but a friend to thee, if thou beest a friend to Truth and Peace. Farewell.  
Norwich. 1646.   

An Hue and Cry after VOX POPVLI.  
preface.  
OUr present division is a sad Omen: of our future miseries, and our happy unity would abundantly facilitate our desired felicity, would we all practise what we all profess, faith and love; we should all p●ocure what we all desire, Truth and Peace: were wee all united in the Tri-une God; wee could not bee thus divided one from another.  
'Tis too known a policy( Sir) for you to deceive the world with, to cry whore, first. One would little think this mealy tongued Gentleman, were one of those Foxes that have fire-brands at their tails, to burn what wheat God hath in this City. 'Tis very true( Sir) our present division is a sad Omen, of future miseries. But who are the Ominous birds? I could wish them cut off that trouble us, But I should be accounted two bitter then: t'was Ahabs trick to meet Elijah, with a salutation most proper to himself; The Troubler of Israel. Our Union to God might keep us from this Division: and this makes us tremble to think of your separation, ye are gone out from us, if you had been of us, you had continued with us.  
Difference of judgement, in the mystery of Divinity, is more our sorrow, then our sin; because it is the irresistible product( through divine justice) of our depraved nature, inflicted upon us through anothers transgression,( the sin of Adam) And is it in the power of mere men to bee all one in the unity of the truth? But difference in Affection, anger, and choler, wrath, and hatred one to another, is more our sin then our sorrow, because against known, duty moral light, and natural principles, and which of us do improve his power against the same?  
Ha!( Sir) who learned you this Divinity? was it one of your weekly Lectures? Are Misteria Theologiae, the deep fundamental points, the mysteries of divinity so slightly in your esteem? The unity in them so little desirable amongst your tribe, that you think the difference here,( which must bee a difference from the truth too) is more our sorrow then our sin? Is it a sin to differ from the Truth, or no? especially( to use your own expression) In the mysteries of Divinity, yea or no? Paul would not have the romans ignorant in the miysteries. Rom. 11, 25. Is any sin more our sorrow then our sin? Let me tell you what are these 〈◇〉 these mysteries: Faith is a mystery 1 Tim. 3.9. The mystery of Faith. The Papists differ from us in the mystery of Faith, and hold a destructive doctrine, Is this more their sorrow then their sin, think you? God manifest in the flesh, is a mystery 1 Tim. 3, 16. The Arrians differ from us in this mystery and deny such a deity. Is this more their sorrow then their sin, think you? Reader, see what doctrine these brethren preach, are they not worthy to bee adored? why is it more our sorrow then our sin? The reason this learned Rabbi allegeth seemeth to bee foure-fould, couched in one sentence: if they lay uncoverd, every one would see their shane; wee will embare them a little.  
1. It is the unresistible product of our depraved nature, therefore it is more our sorrow then our sin. Mark( reader) the Gentlemans logic: whatsoever our corrupt Nature cannot but produce, is more our sorrow then our sin:  
But our corrupt nature cannot but produce a difference in judgments in the mysteries of Divinity; Ergo.  
'Tis very foul, make a syllogism and neither Proposition true: I see very little reason for the minor, for there is the same principles of corruption in all. and how the same cause should produce contrary effects, I know not: I see no reason why it should bee the irresistible Product. But suppose it bee, for fear( by denying both) wee put the disputant out of breath; Is every unresistible product of our corrupt Nature more our sorrow then our sin?  
A natural averseness from all good, & proneness to all evil is the irresistible pruduct of our depraved nature inflicted upon us for anothers transgression and our own too by the justice of God: and is this more our sorrow then our sin?( Sir) do you think the Apostle Paul ever thought( when he found a law that when he would do good, evil was present with him: when he saw another law in his members warring against the law of his mind, and bringing him into captivity into the law of sin which was in his members,) that this( which was an irresistible product of his corrupt Nature, or that remainder of corruption, left in him by divine justice,) was more his sorrow then his? sin what made him then cry out O wretched man that I am who shall deliver me from the body of Death? Rom. 7, 21, 22, 23, 24.  
The second, reason that this Gentleman would have us take, is, because it is inflicted through divine justice. The logic must be thus.  
whatsoever divine justice inflicts upon us is more our Sorrow then our sin.  
But this dissent in the mysteries of divinity is inflicted upon us by divine justice. Ergo.  
If this fellow makes no better weight of plums, then he doth of his Arguments here; he deserves the pillony. An hard heart is often times an effect of divine Iustice: it was so in Pharaoh: Exod. 4, 21. was it more Pharaohs sorrow then his sin? Sodomy in the heathen, was the effect of divine justice, as well as the product of their sinful Natures. Rom. 1, 24. Wherefore God gave them up &c. was this more their sorrow then their sin? Sir? God often punisheth one sin with another: is that sin not a sin, because it is a punishment? Doth our Invincible ignorance, or wilfullnesse excuse us before God? will it excuse you( think you) at at the great day, to say, Lord, I could not but sin, Thy justice inflicted this upon one it was through thy justice, the irristable product of my Nature. If you have no better satisfaction, you will go to the devil. Take heed of hiding sin; or extenuating your sin, God will not be mocked, friend, you will one day find that this sin which ( through divine justice) hath been the irresistible product of your corrupt Nature, will be an everlasting Sorrow to you, except you confess it something better, then here. How now( Sir) what all that sink of sin, all the seed of Rebellion, that fountain of filthiness: that feeds our whole life with filthy streams, more Our sorrow then our sin? Is this so slight a sin in an Independents Eye? Are you of the Popes mind, that thought the taking away of his Peacock was as great a cause of anger to him, as the taking of the forbidden fruit was to God? you will meet anon; well lets trace the Gentleman.  
His third reason seems to bee couched in that sentence. Inflicted upon us, through anothers transgression, the sin of Adam. This thing Independency is such a Chaos, I am forced to put all into form for them: well, your Argument lies thus, in logic.  
Whatsoever is inflicted upon us through anothers transgression, the Sin of Adam is more our sorrow then our sin.  
But this dissent in the mystery of divinity is inflicted upon us through anothers transgression, the sin of Adam. And so all other branches of this three of original corruption( for why this more then another) Ergo.  
Make better weight Sir! Both propositions false, I should quarrel with the Gentleman; did I not know he were beyond his trade here, and, nile suitor ultra crepidam.  
I shall pardon him for once, because I know his Occasions be more in his shop, then in his Study. Onely, let me a little answer a fool according to his folly, lest he bee wise in his own conceit. Pro. 26, 5.  
Are you in earnest, Sir, when you hint to us that whatsoever is inflicted upon us for Adams transgression, is more our sorrow then our sin? all the filthiness of our nature so slight, which no man can mourn enough for, suppose it bee not our sorrow at all; is it not our sin? learn better Divinity, or for shane leave speaking words of Exhortation. O, my soul pities those poor sovles that these seducers deceive.  
But to your minor, I deny that the dissent in judgement in the mystery of divinity is inflicted upon us, for Adams transgression merely, Which it must bee, or your tottering Argument will bury itself in its own ruins: Is their no inherent guilt in original sin? No doubt of your own: All, your fathers left upon your score: Or suppose it were: were it so slighty a matter as you think? Are you by nature children of whath, tam Acttivè quam Passivè and is this more your sorrow then your sin? believe me as slighty a thing as you make of; it If God should give you an acquittance, for all that ever you did from the beginning of your life to this present hour, and to the day of your death; And it were not from the beginning of the world, you should perish everlastingly.  
The last of his reasons seemeth to bee in those words: Is it in the power of mere men to bee all one in the unity of the truth? The Argument lies thus: If it bee not in the power of mere men to bee all one in the unity of the truth; then difference in judgement in the mysteries of divinity, is more our sorrow then our sin.  
But it is not in the power of mere men to bee all one in the unity of the truth. Ergo.  
I must still call for weight, and deny the mayor: what though it be not in the power of mere men to be all one in the unity of the truth? is it not therefore a sin? or is not more their sorrow then their sin therefore? It is not in the power of mere man to be holy; is unholiness therefore more their sorrow then their sin. It is not in the power of mere men to fear God, or walk before him in truth, and with a perfect heart; Is it no sin therefore or more their sorrow then their sin? Is nothing our sin but what we have power to do, or is it a slighty sin because we have not power? we have no power to fulfil the law of God. Rom. 7, 21. Acts. 13, 38. Acts. 15, 10. Rom. 8, 3. Gal. 3, 21. Rom. 8, 7. Man, as mere man hath no power: And because of this; wee have lost the power we had, Is it therefore no line? or is it so slighty a sin that it is more our sorrow then our sin? a poor slighty thing, do you think so? what think you of that dreadful Commination. Cursed bee he that continues not in all the things of the law to do them? are you of the Poets mind, Brethren, Vltra posse viri, non vult Deus ulla requiri? or of Plutarchs mind 〈◇〉, is God tied up to such principles? are you of his mind that writ, Deus nec impossibile aliquid potuit imperare, quia justus est nec damnaturus est hominem pro eo quod non potuit vitare quòd pus est? What! are our Independents turned Pelagians or Manichees? Because it is not in our power to be one. Ergo. it is not our sin not to bee one in the mysteries of divinity, Or more our sorrow then our sin: a poor slighty sin, a venial transgression. Take heed of Popery, Brother, what! have you slighty, and weighty sins? Hath not Christ commanded unity, and commended it? doth this make it no sin, to disobey and slight Gods commands and the Apostles precepts? Rom. 15, 16. 1 Cor. 1, 10. 1 Phil. 27. 1 Phil. 2.4 Phil, 2. 2 Cor. 13, 2. Is it not an union in Opinion think you, as well as in Affection? But notwithstanding all this, the Independents think it a slighty sin to dissent in judgement from others in the mysteries of divinity. because it is not in the power of mere man:( if any sin at all.)  
But secondly: is it not in your power to labour for it? to come to Church? to hear those that would unblinde you; were you not willing to go blind fold-to destruction? This is in your power: why is not this done? this would help you with an excuse something better then your Argument.  
Well: this man goes on without the fear of God before his Eyes. But difference in Affection, anger and choler, wrath and hatred one to another, is more our sin then our sorrow, because against known duty, moral light and natural principles: and which of us do improve his power against the same?  
Doth this wretch believe that he that covereth his sins shall not prosper? Pro. 28, 13. A sin against the first table immediately against God, is more our sorrow then our sin, a poor slighty matter. But a sin against the second table is more our sin then our sorrow. An error in the mysteries of divinity, the secret fundamendamentall truths is more our sorrow then our sin: But a rash word in anger against our Brother, is more our sin then our sorrow; with him. O, he ashamed if thou hast any thing of God in thee. Is not that the greatest sin that is most immediately reflexiue upon God?  
Besides, is not that zeal which you call choler and anger? is it not a passion composed of love as well as anger, love to Gods truth which you are corrupting: to his Church which you are rending: to the apple of his eye, which you are offending: to his dear people( committed to their charge) which you are seducing? is it a bitterness against your persons? or against your doctrine and jesuitical practices? what presbyterial Minister in Norwich ( Sir) ever preached against any of your persons? or writ? You have unchurched us: but if a minister be careful over the sovles of his people, that you, under a deceit of holinesse entrap them not; Oh this is such choler( but it is pious( brethren) as cannot be endured. This is a sin far beyond all heresy in the mysteries of Divinity, or ignorance in the fundamentals of christianity, and and more our sin then our sorrow, wee wish with you that every man even in his own sphere and according to his own opportunity, would follow after the things that tend unto peace: So our common prosperity soon would be effected. But doth this Vox Diaboli tend to peace? this slanderous pamphlet? did you move in your own sphere here? It was never weighed in the balance of truth. I will assure you It is a false weight and a deceitful balance, &c. but for this, if the Independents will go about to show us any good I am deceived in their designs For lo,( say you) those whose very office, and function is the propagation of peace, improve their endeavours to the promotion of troubles, And our Peace-Preachers turn our Bate-makers.  
'Tis very true,( Sir) if you speak of yourselves: witness, your pastors gathering of Churches, dividing in Families, carrying away wife from husband, one friend from other: witness the preaching and praying, and printing of your Tribe, against our brethren of Scotland. Though( the Lord be praised,) he hath made you liars unto him, and their innocency clear as the undergone in his fight: witness, your frequent lies, and slanders, of that righteous Nation, which filled every pamphlet: witness, your drawing peoples affection from their ministers &c. Never such Bate-makers, If I have not lost my judgement. The Lord judge betwixt us, and you for that. For your ensuing story.  
I shall examine that, & see if you have better Principles of Truth then you have had any of reason in you in your preface. The first part of his story is concerning some passages of a Sermon preached june 16. being the Guild day. here he describes the place and auditory. ( the whole City generally attending)( where note, the greater part of that City are no Independents, as some of the tribe boasts) But to the purpose: the charge is, That in that Sermon the said Master Thornebeck did exhort the people to strike in with some petition, that some course might bee taken, to tread out those sparks that were ready to set on fire both kingdoms: and if any wretch should interpose, or go about to hinder it; he deserves to bee cut in pieces and his house to bee made a jaques. First I answer, that it is false: ( quo ad formam) he spake of no petition; only moved them to set up reformation and further that, desiring to improve that hour to put on authority to act for God according to their several places; and is this his charge? he might exhort them to tread out those sparks which are ready to set on fire both kingdoms, and was it not according to his Covenant? have wee not engaged ourselves to God To discover Incendiaries, and labour to bring those to condign punishment? And are not these Incendiaries in the Covenant-sence, that labour to divide betwixt the King and his people, or, betwixt the two Nations of England and Scotland? Suppose he had name Independents, I know no crime in it; what hath meant their long acted design to bring the Scotts & English into jealousies one of another? was not The Black cloud in the North of that tribes raising? What have ment their Virulent tongues against them and their poisoned pens? and the many lies, that the world hath been filled with( touching that true-hearted Nation) how have their Simeons and Levies endeavoured to make the name of jacob stink amongst the inhabitants of our Land? Suppose he had exhorted them in direct terms, to strike in with a petition against the Faction of independency, the greatest fire that now consumes our kingdom if under that Notion. And that be true: who so would hinder it, deserves to have no name in Israel. Thus much for the clearing of the text, Now to examaine the Commentary a little.  
First by the way, This sectary takes notice hence of the prime fomenters, and chief Authors of this kind of States-disturbing practise, of Cities and countries, viz. those that speak unto the people in the name of Lord, who have greatest force, power, & interest in the hearts, a people who look upon them as their Seers, their guides, men acquainted with the will of God  
Men not steered by carnal interests, but as aiming simply at the glory of God, and wel-fare of their souls, who watch for their good, and therfore( in the simplicity of their harts knowing nothing,) they are ready to Act according to their own hearts device; for the truth is, conscience is a tender thing, and if once mens judgments are misinformed and abused by their ministers, and prophets; if they say, and that in the name of the Lord, Go up to Ramoth Gilead and prosper thousands will bee ready to march though to their own ruin. A pretty note this! tis pity the margin had not a hand to point out the Knave.  
The complaint is of a State disturbed: there note 

1. The manner of the disturbance. 

1. By preaching faithfully and zealously for a Reformation.  
2. By petitioning Authority humbly.    
2. The Disturbers of it. 

1. Those that speak unto the people in the name of the Lord.  
2. Those that have greatest interest in the peoples hearts.  
3. Those that are looked upon as the peoples guides, &c.    
3. The people disturbed: in which 

1. Their quality. 

Those that desire Ministers to acquaint them the will of God    
2. Their readiness to be disturbed. 

Ready to act according to their hearts desire, &c.        
1. Is preaching for a Reformation faithfully and zealously, the disturbance of a State, is this such a disturbing practise? O tempora! O mores!— Quis sit inquae Tam patience Gentis? tam ferreus ut teneat se? This was the Bishops language: are you turned faces about? Is discharging our conscience faithfully,( which is the blessing of a State) the disturbing of a State? Reader, note, that faithful preaching is the Independents disturbance.  
2. Is humble Petitioning the disturbing practise? did you think our petitioning against the book of Common-prayer and Bishops, so? Is, to speak in the name of the Lord to a people to disturb that people, or the presenting our groanings to the Parliament, such a disturbance? The Lord awaken you, and trouble you thus while your troubled waters be still. But who are they that disturb the state?  
Surely, they are such as seduce the King, or blow up the coals betwixt brethren, or gather Churches out of Churches. These, a man in his wits, and would judge those that trouble Israel: those that hinder proceedings in the assembly, or in the Courts of Justice. Thus a wise man would think. But what says our Abab? Elijah is the man that troubles Israel. Shall I give you a description of them out of his own shameless mouth?  
1. They are such as speak to the people in the name of the Lord. O were not there a godly Preacher a Presbyterian, to convert souls. But we were all Heathens, then this Sectary would bee quiet: 'tis this indeed that troubles their 

Gathering  
Scattering   of Churches.  
2. They are such as have greatest force, power, and interest in peoples hearts, such as have converted the peoples souls to God, and so ingratiated themselves to the people, and are written in their souls. These are those that troubled the Bishops, and now, the Independents: these are those that will not subscribe their Petitions, and dissuade their people from their practices. For shane( Sir) blushy: are these those that trouble the State?  
3. They are such as the people look upon as their seers and guides, men acquainted with the will of God, men not steered by carnal interests, but as aiming simply at the good of their souls.  
Are these your enemies? those that are acquainted with the will of God, whom you profess alliance to? those who purely look at the salvation of souls( if all mens eyes be not blinded, beside the Independents, those that watch for your good. Now I hope the world will take notice what a son of Belial this is, who accounts the unbiast faithful Seer, the author and fomenter of these State-disturbing practices. But in the third place are who, these that are thus disturbed.  
1. Take notice of their quality. They are those that look after unbiast Ministers, that are acquainted with the will of God, those that have a desire to the Word: that in this schismatics mouth ( in the simplicity of their hearts know nothing:) surely these are precious stones: if they were but cemented in your Church, they would know something. Are these the mayor and Court of Aldermen, and Common council, and Commonalty of this famous City, such poor simplo creatures, that they know nothing:( yes Sir, they know you for a seducer) and with a twine thrid they may bee drawn to act what their Ministers would have them, good or bad, swallowing all. Yea if they say, go up to Ramoth Gilead, and prosper, these thousands will march though it be to their ruin: Sure, this famous city will take notice of this Abuse. But surely your Independent Ministers have not had so good fortune here to led them. Neither mayor nor one Alderman member yet: your two Lectures and constant sabbath Sermons, and double weekly exercises, and public insinuations, and private tricks, have not found Norwich such a lob-cocke city as you would have it: Are only the thirty men and fourscore women, of your Church, and the best of them scarce a common-council man, with the rabble of poor mechanics & silly women, entrap'd in your snare, the only men in Norwich, that will examine the Scriptures for Pauls Doctrine?  
The second note the Gentlemen observes, is The means, ways and methods that they put the people upon for the bringing about their design, that is by Petitions.  
Those in the Kings quarters did exhort the people with a full mouth to take up arms for his majesty the Lords anointed, promising acceptance and assistance in the Name of the Lord. But those in the Parliaments quarters to Petition again and again, to shoot arrow after arrow, and promiseth upon this course( if continued) that they shall succeed and prosper: for what may they not do? if they will show themselves not to give over Petitioning till they have their desires, & if one failes, give not over, strike higher yet, be positive in your Petitions, but be sure you have soft epithets to your titles: let it bee the humble Petition and humble Remonstrance, and dash it here & there with a few good words, acknowledging what the Parliament hath done, with all humility and thankfulness, and let your Prayer be something to that purpose: for, what ever it is, if the number of the hands, and the quality of the subscribers declare them many, great, and strong, and the phrases of their Petitions, the resolutions of their spirits; the Parliament must yield.  
Here observe what angers the Gentleman: O this petitioning! this makes them all liars, who would boast of so many they have of their side, the greater part of the city of Norwich, the Aldermen and common-council, the Knights, Gentlemen, and Free-holders of the County of norfolk, and County & City of Norwich, page. 16. when scarce a Knight or a Gentlemans hand to it,( but, of that, and the brave juggling for it, more anon.) All these tricks Petitioning spoils. But Sir, is not Petitioning, the Subjects privilege in England? is it not their birth-right? for those words again, shoot arrow after arrow, and promiseth upon this course if continued, they shall prosper, &c. This piece of impudence would make us believe by this continued lying dialect were a piece of Mr. Thornbecks Sermon, but Sir that is false every syllable. And for the soft epithets and humble Remonstrance, &c. it is your own dialect, page. 16. But the most of your Tribe will not give them so much as good words: do you remember your saucy brother Mar-priest and Lilbourn, and those that have defended them: were ever the Peers of England so abused by a faction? Neither is it our intention to make the Parliament yield, but by petition to present our grievances. Let the world judge, have you had such raw-mannered Presbyterians as Independents? mark their preaching and printing, which gives the Parliament most honour? But I shall shane you anon, with your getting hands to your Petition; I could tell you, of their hands that cannot distinguish betwixt their right hand and left: but of this in its due place.  
3. Thirdly, he tells us we may consider the matter of those Petitions and Remonstrances, which are most disturbing the Church and State. And that is the suppression of that sort of people, though never so holy, harmless, peaceable, useful to the public good. If so be they observe them destructive unto their designs, and hinderers of their hopes, and selfe-exalting endeavours. Drunkards, Swearers, Gamesters, liars, Whoremongers, Adulterers, &c. are not Petitioned against, because these do not hinder them in their ways; but whosoever those be that differ from them in judgement, and oppose them in their way, these are heretics, Sectaries, schismatics, and what not?  
Here's three or four falshoods insinuated.  
1. That the people that are petitioned against, are holy, harmless, peaceable, useful to the public good.  
2. That the Ministers only petition against these, because they are obstructive to their designs.  
3. That they are favourers of Drunkards and Swearers, &c. they are not Petitioned against.  
4. That their greatest crime is a little difference in judgement.  
For the first: your holinesse: I think you have no more then you need: holy Anabaptists, and Antinomians, many of you: for your holinesse; more anon: but are you so harmless and peaceable too, abusing Magistrates, reviling Ministers? against whom you have nothing to say. But they are no Independents. I shall tell you of some of your harmless doings, and peaceable tricks anon, you are not such tame fools as you would make yourselves.  
2. Is the Ministers only quarrel against you( think you) because you are obstructive to their designs, and hinderers of their hopes? No( Sir) it is because you corrupt their Congregations, seduce their people, deceive silly souls: this is the quarrel, wee can leave it to God to work out our designs, and throw these chipps out of the way. And we fear not but the Meteor will vanish alone: The ignis fatuus will go out of itself: the Mushroom of Indepedency is but for a day or two: The babel will down again.  
3. Are these such favourers of Drunkards, Swearers, liars, Gamesters, Whoremongers, Adulterers, as your saucy pen would whisper them to be? One thing is, their integrity is of a little longer date then yours( good Brother!) your tongue is no great slander. But these are not Petitioned against; We will tell you the Reason. First, for Drunkards, Swearers, Adulterers, Gamesters, there is direct statutes against them, and we know the Majors integrity to be such, that if you but go and convict any of your members before him; he will execute them to the utmost as upon any others.  
2. For liars: we confess we have no direct statute against: and therefore wee petitioned against them inclusivé inclusively, when wee petitioned against you:( onely in more mannerly terms) and I hope to correct you anon: and if I thought you would not confess them: I would tally them for you, or set an hand against them.  
4. Is the greatest crime you are guilty of, difference in judgement? No( Sir), we are not angry with you for this, it is your disturbing practise! It is, your gathering of Churches, drawing wift from husband, and children from Parents: It is, the complain that wives take from their husbands, to maintain your Pastors: Is this the difference in judgement?( speak truth Sir) I shall tally presently.  
But come we to his last note. Fourthly, he will consider the Notion under which they represent their dissenting Brethren, viz. Incendiaries, sparks that are ready to set on fire two Kingdoms, when alas they are merely passive & act nothing, but desire to be let alone, & themselves do little less then throw balls of wildfire from their Pulpits and pens, setting on fire the whole kingdom: and the truth is, this Generation of men hath almost involved that part of the world that is called Christian, in most fiery and bloody contestations: and if all things be rightly considered, as we very well know, and may see whence our late warres did proceed, viz. from the Prelates, some of them not being ashamed to call it Bellum Episcopale: so we cannot but take notice who it is that is fomenting new differences and jealousies between Parliament and People, dividing a most prosperous and united party, one against another, insinuating it is very much feared into a new war, which can properly be nothing else then Bellum Presbyteriale, as will further appear by the rest of this story concerning the Norwich Remonstrance, which follows, &c.  
In this Copious lie take notice of two things: 

1. An Excusation 

The parties excused 

Dissenting bretheren represented as Incendiaries.    
The excusation itself. 

They are merely passive and act nothing, &c.      
2. An Accusation: 

The parties accused: 

They; that are acquainted with the will of God, &c. ut prius.    
The Comparison: To Prelates and their practices.  
The positive Accusation 

Sedition, &c.        
I shall spend a few lines to accuse the Excused, and excuse the Accused. least I justify the Generation of the wicked, and condemn the Generation of the just, Both which are abomination to the Lord.  
The parties Excused are represented under a double Notion: First in their neighbours glass: So they are Incendiaries dividing betwixt wife and husband, Minister and People, England and Scotland: And are only petitiond against under this Notion:( in their own confession) if they pled not Guilty, and can clear themselves. there is no more desired, Or if they will traverse the Inditement and be tried by their Peers, they may: Is this such a State-disturbing practise?( Brother) Is it not a Covenant-clause. Who will you be tried by?  
2. In their own glass: and here the Aethiopians are fair, alas! what have they done? they are merely passive and act nothing but desire to bee let alone, poor tame creatures! they have a faire tongue but this is a foul falsehood do you act nothing in the Assembly? Nothing in the Parliament? Nothing in the army? Nothing in London? Nothing in the press? Nothing in Norwich? how come the Faction so spread, that the locusts cover the land? how came so many Churches gathered? They act nothing, when in any election, besides their private tricks, and insinuations, they will use any indirect means for their side to carry it, give pottles of Sack almost to drunkenness: give their voice rather for the greatest Malignant, or profane person; that they think will bee for a cipher, then for a godly man if a Presbyterian: they act nothing when if one bee chosen, that is( as they think) one that desires peace in the state and unity in the Church) they( though against their own consciences.) will bee petitioning against him for a Malignant. hoping by this means, if they cannot turn him out: yet they will raise an ill report of him, that he might not bee accounted of. These acted nothing against Sir John Hobarts Election: when they would have made him a Malignant, though he hath been more faithful, and done the Parliament more service then their whole tribe in the County. The world understands your dealings, wee could tell you of damnable acting. Machiavell never acted so much: yet they are tame creatures, if they might bee believed; and desire to bee let alone. Cut a mans throat and then a fling away the knife, and ask who meddles with him? they desire to bee let alone, So did the Arminians, And no question, the most prodigious Traytors, when they came to bee discovered, would have been let alone too: you are merely passive. why? what have you suffered I pray? what, have you been exiles? who hath been so passive? your brother Lilbourne hath suffered Imprisonment, when he deserved the worst of deaths. But so much for your excusations: A little to vindicate the Accusation.  
1. Who are accused?[ They.] viz. that speak to the people in the name of the Lord, that have greatest force and power, and interest in the peoples hearts: these are the accused. you may guess by the rule of the Contraries, who are the Accusers: those that look upon these as the State-disturbers, Surely we have done something for God more then wee thought of.  
2. Mark the comparison: Betwixt the prelates and us: what! have you none to compare them with, but those that suspended and excommunicated, and hunted after them? were these Souldiers in Bello episcopali, or combatants against it? But impudency hath no fore-head. I shall, vindicate them from this in the due place: where this brazen-faced Sectary speaks more home and full. Let us examine the Accusation itself.  
1. Sedition: throwing balls of wildfire and setting on fire the whole Kingdom, involving the greatest part of the Christian world in most fiery and bloody contestations, Harsh language! did not the Authors credit flag, it might make the people pull the Ministers out of the Pulpits: but doth the accquaintance they have with the will of God teach them such things? So all the Prophets, and Apostles preached sedition. Paul preached absolute Sedition at Ephesus. But guess( Reader)( when the Silversmiths cry, and other Craftsm●n of the like occupation) the reason, Acts. 19, 25. Sirs By this Craft they have their wealth. Moreover they see and hear, that not only at Norwich, but almost throughout all the kingdom, these Ministers have persuaded, and turned much people to God, and his Government. Saying that this Independency is a mere Anarchy; a thing made with hands. So that not only this their craft, is in danger to bee set at nought; but also that the Temple of the great Diana of Independency will be despised, and their magnificence shall bee destroyed, this makes them full of wrath to cry out: But Brother Demetrius! and the craftsmen of your society; if you have any matter against any of these men, the law is open: and there are deputies; let them implead one another. In the mean while, let not your tongue bely your conscience: nor yet out-run your wit.  
2. The second is dissimulation, this they are charged with: that they are the first that cry fire, fire, when they, says he: are the generation of men, &c.  
This is a libel( good Sir) and if your book hath not the better licence, you may hap to hear of this at the pillory. I shall leave the law to answer this at the Courts discretion, get John Batchilers hand to it: Quickly.  
3. The third is suspicion of a Bellum Presbyteriale. Alas the day, This will not do. If the Scots and we should quarrel,( which the Lord in mercy prevent, and shane those that make it their design to bring about) all the world knows the cause, we shall go nigh to Chronicle it Bellum Independens: we have heard some of your Sermons, and red some of your books, and observe your tricks to beget jealousies betwixt the Scots, by raising the lies of ten thousand Scots newly come in, and berwick and Tinmouth fortified: and ten thousand devices more, which the Lord hath discovered and confounded,( Praised be his Name!)  
But to proceed, page. 4.  
It is confessed: p. 4. thus far, viz. that the Ministers there name did go to the Court of Aldermen, and desired the mayor that an Assembly might be called the next day, and then they would tender unto them a Petition or Remonstrance to the Parliament, &c. And it is true, the Court desired to see their Petition, &c. which they promised they should see at the said common Assembly: In conclusion they did yield it should be red by one of themselves: but not by the Town-Clarke, &c. The Text is corrupted, but we shall find the Commentary abominable, and have liberty there to meet with it.  
First says he, we further see whence these kind of Remonstrances have their rise and spring, viz. from the Ministers in the country, they bear sway and command, and appear public in their designs.  
But how do you see here further?( good logical Sir.) mark your Argument. If the Ministers of Norwich bee the Authors of this Remonstrance, then the Ministers in the country are the Authors of those Remonstrances are sent out of the country.  
But these. &c.— Ergo those.  
I must still tell you of a false weight, your balance of reason is nought, Sir, and the weights of your brains want the seal of judgement. Give me leave to turn it into your bosom.  
If the female Independents in London steal from their husbands to enrich their Pastors; then they do so in Norwich, the country and other places( look about you Gentlemen!) But &c.— Ergo: is this good logic?  
If the Independents in London admit all riff raff of Anabaptists and Antinomians into their Church, provided they keep their opinions to themselves: then they do so in Norwich, and other places. But &c.— Ergo.  
But I shall anger you anon with disputing in your own mood and figure. Learn better logic, reasonable men will be ashamed to meddle with you.  
The Ministers bear sway and command. No( Sir) they onely Remonstrate, exhort, petition, entreat. But they appear public in their designs. The more their credit, they act above-board: if you had done so, you had wanted hands to your Petition. It is an argument, they are not ashamed of their actions: It is an argument their designs are good and commendable, such as they dare appear in public unto.  
But secondly, he notes the policy of these Ministers f●r the effectual carrying on their works:( The wisdom of Serpents, Sir.) First they publicly prepare the people by their Sermons. 'Tis for a Reformation( Sir) oh that we were better prepared for it: after that, they privately address themselves to the Magistrates. 'Tis false Sir, this was publicly too at the open Court.  
Master Thornbeck he says took advantage( to discharge his conscience) from that extraordinary convention of the whole collective City at Sermon, To prepare their judgements: Another abuse put upon the whole city. First, that all of them should be of such weak unsettled judgements, that the Minister must prepare them, as if this whole city were a nose of wax to be turned by the voice of the Minister. But know, Sir, Their judgement was already Presbyterian: which of them is a member in your Church? It is well you can speak any thing true: it was indeed to stir up their affection: all of us had need have our affections quickened to the good work of Reformation, to act it in our several places. For the promotion of the remonstrance, no such was expressed; I dare not search their hearts, nor their thoughts; who gave you commission to do it? still he goes on for the whetstone. 
☜  In the afternoon it was seconded by Master Bond, violently pressing the people; according to the pattern delivered him in the mount, I mean Master Thornbecks Sermon. First,( Sir) Master Bond; in stead of violent pressing, spake not a word of it, but suppose he had; if Master Thornbecks Sermon were as the pattern in the mount, Gods word and the command of God; what harm here?  
The next day after he saith striking( while the Iron was hot) they applied themselves to the Magistrates: they did not do any thing of themselves, then, but with the Advice of the Magistrates. He saith, This hath been always observed; that the magistrates must do the Ministers work. No Presbyteriā Magistrates,( Sir) they are your Magistrates that do the Ministers work: viz. preaching and exhorting, wee give no such libery: It is the work of God, ours do: to which wee exhort them, and entreat them.  
He goes on in his tedious folly. I should trouble the Readers patience, and mine own too, to red or writ them: One thing I must take notice of. He talks of Invectives they bear in the Ministers pulpits, complaints in their prayers against the evil of the times( that is their duty) that there is no reformation, that is the groaning of their sadded sovles: No uniformity: Gods house lies wast: all runs to confusion. Too just complaints! Oh that they were not put into their mouths! Sects, Sectaries, heretics, schismatics grow and multiply: The Lord root them out; Now this reverend crafts-man will expound their meaning. But what is this reformation: but the establishing of Power, Authority, and Estate, in the hands of the clergy. What power is desired, or Authority? but what the word of God allows: I am confident they could heartily wish it allowed them none at all, Our greatest care is, least any secular authority should offend our God, by taking more into their hands then Gods word allows; not for fear wee should not have enough: let them take all,( if Gods word will allow it) so our Church be settled in peace: but he talks of Settling estate in the hand of the Clergy; which of the Presbyterians estate is it you envy? Alas! that one president of good doctor burgess doth so stick in your throat; you forget, 200 pounds per annum, given to your Brother Peters: 300. per annum: that another hath. And, Is that the reformation you desire, to have them have a Church at London, & one or two more in Norfolk & Norwich? truly your Clergy for the present want no great— how can they when Master H. K. a man of no great fortunes, gives eighteen pounds per annum: and Master I. T. in Norwich too, gives eight pound per annum? you have not such a cheap clergy when men of these estates are faint to strain so hard: we hear nothing saith he almost in every Pulpit but Church discipline, uniformity: Nothing against the known, God-provoking sins of the time; 
☞  Swearing, lying, defrauding, cozening, and over-reaching one another: little or nothing of the doctrine of Faith towards God, repentance from dead works, love amongst Brethren, Communion with God, union with Christ, fellowship with the Spirit; these things are almost banished the Pulpits, and wee have nothing but the very forms and shell of Religion preached in the room thereof. Wee which of the wees do you mean? wee Presbyterians, or wee Independents? for the latter, it is the fault of your pastor, admonish him; you are grown to such a pass, the most of you, that you will never come to hear any, whom you think but Presbyterian: what? would you have us speak so loud, that you should hear in your chimney corners? are you at church, and do you not hear? The more shane for you for sleeping; other men can hear that Discipline and uniformity are, first very seldom preached for, not so often as they should be: because there be other things, which stand in nearer relation to salvation; when did Master Thornbeck, or Master Carter preach a Sermon fully and absolutely about discipline? If a schismatic, or an heritick lies in their way( I trow) you will give them leave to kick them out, if you will not, they will take it.  
Secondly: when at all preached for very necessary, when the City is infected with a thing they call a Church of Independents, that is to say, Brownists, Anabaptists, and Antinomians: they do not much delight in administering such physic, but Antidotes are seasonable in time of infection: tis time to give pills when the body is infected, let them please, or not please: they are wholesome.  
I appeal to the right worshipful and worthy mayor, the Aldermen and Common council. and all the Citizens of Norwich, except the members of that faction) Is Mr. Thornbecks, or Mr. Carters constant preaching, for Discipline and Uniformitie? do they never preach for faith or repentance? &c. Nay, is not ten Sermons, for one, of this Subject? If they bee; see what conscience this Tribe makes of lying and defaming: and take heed of their leaven. Have ye nothing preached but the forms and shells of Religion? do you know what Religion is? Sir, your tongue cannot defame these Ministers. Nay if at any time Mr. T. speaks any thing against Sectaries, doth not he use to distinguish betwixt those that are merely misled, & those that wilfully trouble the Church? Doth not he pity the first, and reprove and condemn the latter? you that are of that tribe, and are godly, judge yourselves; doth he speak truth or no? Sure this is a rotten gangrened member. Is this liar a visible Saint amongst you?  
Thirdly from their unwillingness to let the Remonstrance be red in the Court of Majoralty, and after refusing to let the Town-Clarke red it, but would red it themselves: he observes very wittily the wonderful pertinacious conceitedness these men have of their own worth; and their low, mean, & unworthy opinion they have of all other men: had they not had high thoughts of themselves, they would have been willing, not only to let them have the hearing of it, but also have required their advice, counsel, and help in the matter itself, and whole disposition and frame thereof: had they not very low and mean thoughts of that Court, it could not so much as enter into their hearts once to imagine, that ever they would entertain such a motion without an utter disdaining thereof: That men could be imagined, especially the chief Magistrates of that worthy city, to bee at such a vast distance from the wits and judgements of rational men, as to be lead like a company of blind buzzards into such dangerous transactions as there are, and that without so much as once examining and scanning the thing itself, and the tendency thereof. Surely had they not thought they had been a company of Idiots, made up into a Corporation, they would never have made such an unreasonable motion. But, you see, Mr. Thornbecke and the rest of your brethren! that Lay-men have their eyes in their heads. And doubtless hereafter they will examine your Doctrine before they will make application thereof: well done good brother, but basely spoken. I must divide this, and search the fly-blown joints severally.  
In this speech take notice:  
1. Of a large lie insinuated. That these reverend men were such conceited men: they thought Mr. Town-Clerke could not red it; and that they would scarce let the Court hear it, but at no hand take advice.  
2. An unmannerly slander suggested. Mark his words, men that would but entertain a motion to hear a Remonstrance, to bee at such a vast distance from the wits and judgments of rational men, as to be lead like a company of blind buzzards. Bona Verba quaeso: you are too saucy Sir, &c. had not they thought they had been a company of Idiots, &c. they would not have made, &c. As much as to say, thatis our judgement of them, &c. Sure that Court will take notice of it. But they know you and your tongue.  
3. An application: nothing to the purpose:  
To answer a little. It was not out of a pertinacious conceitedness the men had of their own worth, that they first could have been content indeed that their Remonstrance should not have been red at that time. Secondly, when it was desired, they desired it to be red by one of themselves.  
1. Because they would take a little more advice upon it, and present it perfect to the whole Court, June 19. at the Common council.  
2. Because it it was written in a rude draft blotted, and enterlined, and not fit to be red by any, but he that writ it.  
3. Because Mr. Town-Clerkes Wife they knew was one of that Tribe: and though they durst trust him with it: they knew not how far the friend in his bosom might prevail with him, and they were loathe to trust one of their Adversaries with their weapon. But being desired by the mayor, Master Carter red it, at that time, this was a wonderful pertinacious conceitedness, was it not? It being red, the Court desired it should be left with them for a day. The Ministers accordingly left it with the mayor: was this such a blind leading of the Magistrates( Brother) that the Magistrates must be Idiots, blind buzzards, to entertain the motion. Was here no hearing, reading, debating, advising about it? If you would but learn to shane the devil by speaking truth once, we would have hopes of you: In conclusion, at night they repaired to the Court. The mayor  told them what they found fault with: which was something about Treasons, which they satisfied them, there was a statute in force against. Accordingly they blotted it clear out. They likewise presented the Ministers there with a paper of what they found fault with, which was all presently amended: and they desired the Court; If they saw any thing in it( not in their judgements) fit to pass, or any thing defective fit to be inserted: they would propound it; it should be taken from ●●●r added to it. Or if the Court pleased to appoint a Committee to consult with them about any thing in it, or any thing to be added to it, it should be yielded to. The Court was satisfied. Was not this faire dealing? What need they use now, Sir, to tell Mr. Thornbecke and Mr. Carter, Lay-men had eyes in their heads? We know it Sir, and can see your knavish and ungodly dealing with them, slandering Magistrates, Ministers, all the godly Ministers of a city together.  
But lastly, from the same particular, whether wee will or no, he will observe the jesuitical practices, and undermining principles of these kind of men: manners( good Sir) jesuits, underminers? well: you can talk of theirs: but wee shall prove yours to your face anon. Well: What are these jesuits undermining principles? why would they not( they did Sir) suffer men to red, and observe, and debate that thing which they would have pass for their own act? All this was suffered, if you would be content with reason, Sir. Well he guesseth the reason, his quick nose hath scented it. They were conscious that too much care and inspection would prevent their design: the light of reason, and the darkness of Contrivance would not consist together. Well guess't( Brother!) No Sir, they were afraid to leave it in your hands, lest you should have corrupted their writings, perverted their meanings: if you could raise such a competent sum of falshoods with but once hearing of it; What would you have done with writing of it out, especially when it was not to be printed. We knew your faculty at that trade too well: and if it had been left with the Aldermen, we know, though none were members, yet some stood in some relation to you. Thus you have the true account of the proceedings that day, and the true reason why they refused to leave the Copy. It is not so punctual possibly as might be expected. I was not so nice in that, because I am confident those reverend men will vindicate themselves shortly. He goes on still.  
An Assembly or common-counsel being called, June 19. 1646. the said Ministers came with their Petition or Remonstrance, but would not endure any Copy thereof or Notes to be taken. All this is true, and scarce another whole sentence in the Libel.  

☞  He goes on commenting. It is most clear ( in your eye, Sir) that this was intended as a mere snare or trap to catch the city:( where was it set( Sir?) what was it baited with?) more befiting mountebanks then Ministers, that so the people may be engaged in before they were ware of it. Let the( Reader) judge the truth of this from what went before; he goes on prating as if his tongue were oiled, and his brains cracked, and he fitter to go to Bedlam then to bee honoured with a confutation( how mean soever.) But to his story.  
The result of that meeting was, that the Assembly desired a weekes time to consider of it, and a Copy thereof to be left in their hands: both which the Ministers refusing to yield unto; nothing was done. The truth is this. 
Vid suprà  The common-council meeting, it was presented & left with them, they all faithfully promising that no Notes of it should be taken for the reason above, though we must put them in mind by the way( to demonstrate their faithfulness to nothing) that Mr. Ashwell, one at whose house their tribe meets notwithstanding his faithful engagement amongst the rest, yet was found taking of Notes, which the common-council was much incensed with, alleging it was a dishonour to their Court, and he no honest man that should offer it. Their Speaker took his paper away in the Court, and would have rent it, had he not pleaded it was the backside of a Letter: whereupon they blotting out what he had written, restored him his paper. But in conclusion, the common-council being informed by the Citie-Councell then present, of some inconveniences might have ensued, for the manner of presenting, not the matter of the thing; declared their minds to the Ministers, and they departed satisfied of the fidelity of that Court, and desire to oppose all Faction.  
For the few lines concerning Mr. Carters allegation, I shall leave them to Mr. Carter to answer, who I am confident will take up the glove: only let me tell you, Mr. Carter is not such an acquaintance of Malignants, more then of Independents: for the nail struck through Sisera's Temples, and the dead Remonstrance, the Reader hath the true story.  
Our libeler now goes on to pick out something out of Mr. Ashwells notes: and so far as his memory could carry away, or his lying invention device, they are these that follow. But before they follow he tells you, pure policy hath butted the Remonstrance in obscurity; good reason Sir! the Ministers in the City have been traduced enough, with the ends you have got. His text is now cleared from lying, for it is no more then memory could carry away, and his memory is like a snow-bal, it licks up, as it goeth.  
But first, That no satisfaction was yet given to the London-Remonstrance.  
Now he spends a meditation or two upon it, gnaws once or twice on this bone, he sees that London Remonstrance: through the skill and diligence of the busy Ministers,( speak no more than you know Sir) proves generative, and hath begotten a Norwich-Remonstrance. And is it not good for Brethren to dwell together in unity? But Sir. you are mistaken, London Remonstrance was a masculine Remonstrance: judicious discreet men that had a hand in it. They are your Female Petitions of the Independents that are the engenderers; such as are filled with maids and girls hands, But you say Abortion hath been its doom: 'Tis false, Sir, they were brought all forth, as well as your independent petition Annexed to your libel: But we will prove that a Bastard anon, it was begott in a Corner: though an attorney was the father of it.  
Secondly: he would know, whether wee suppose that the Parliament of England had their dependence, strength, hope, and confidence, so in the London Remonstrance, as that whatsoever they should require, though it should bee John Baptists head, to the prejudice, yea the danger of half, yea of the whole kingdom; it must bee granted. Here he insinuateth, that London Remonstrance was a very prejudicial engine to the kingdom.  
2. That the lord mayor, Aldermen and Common counsel of the City of London, are men of so little Religion that they would ask John Baptists head; what would undo the kingdoms.  
Sir. wee do not suppose that the Parliament of England, hath any such Dependence, strength or hope in the City of London. Nor do wee desire the great court of the kingdom, should be tied up to such necessity: or acted by such Principles. But when the body of the whole City of London, whose purses have been the nerves and sinnues of our defensive warres, whose bodies have been willingly offered up to death; out of a mere principle of obedience to the Parliament, and to make a Bulwark for them: I say, when these jointly remonstrate their grievances, and petition redress, and their petition tends to the peace of the State, and unity of the Church; wee cannot but listen after the answer, and believe, it will in time bee Satisfactory.  
For what followeth of certain men, of Master Thornbecks, and Master Carters tribe: being moved by the deceitful compass of carnal interest: and being acted and moved up and down, according to the motions of their primum-mobile, Worldly Preferment and popular concurrence, Submitting yourselves to the precepts of men: to Surplice, Tippets, High-Altar, liturgies, Homilies, Cannons, Injunctions, if the Bishops preach for them, and glory in them: and as the times wheel about again; they can throw them all by, and bee as zealous against them as ever you were for them. I suppose you have not brazen-face enough, to accuse Master Carter: yet you put it in a Dialect, like the Devills Oracle, no one knows to construe it:" For men of your tribe, Master Thornbeck, Master Carter, and the rest of you to be steered, &c.  
But it is no matter, your tongue is not worth regarding, if you do: only, if you do; it was no policy to sand your books into Norwich, where the whole City can give you the lie; witness, his leaving of his Living at St. Peters in Norwich for 2. years together, Indeed he did not run over into Holland and gather a Church: It would have troubled his Spirit perhaps, to have left his sinking kingdom, much more to have spent his time in Iaying a foundation, for future disturbances of the Church, he was not at the christening of that( Infant then) Independency.  
Indeed, there was of your( friends) that would not conform,( yet even they conformed to a surplice &c.) but shewed themselves men of conscience in, denying those things which they durst not do, as well as in doing what they might do, with( as they thought) a safe conscience, But there was a little difference betwixt Master Carters going, and theirs; when they did, Master Carter and his wife going when they had no maintenance assured, nor any place where they were confident, they might lay down their head: Tis one thing for conscience sake, thus to go and throw themselves upon a frowning Providence, and another thing to go assured of 20 pounds per annum from one Gentlewoman, and to a Living of six or sevenscore pounds per annum, paid clearly, twice so good as that in Norwich; and but two dayes journey.  
And I hope you have more modesty then to accuse Mr. Thornbecke of those tricks: what ever you say. 
☜  If the Reader doubts any thing, he may inquire at Bumstead in Essex, where was his then residence, whether he was not by the Bishops excommunicated for not comforming to their Injunctions.  
Thirdly, you tell us, if we will forbear a little, there will be satisfaction sufficient to the joy of the kingdom, From the Parliament of England concerning London-Remonstrance: we hope so too. And though it hath been the joy and gladness, hope and confidence, waters of life to the fainting hearts: yea as butter and honey, marrow & fatness in the mouths of Malignants. Malignants Sir? whom do you call Malignants? what! the House of Peers that have their approbation of it? and all our Brethren of Scotland, and the godly and Orthodox Ministers of the kingdom? what! all Malignants( Brother?) who is bitter now? what those thousands Orthodox Protestants in the kingdom, whose hearts were with the Remonstrants in those things that concerned the kingdom; all Malignants? surely this Author, was brought up in a dung-hill by his foul mouth.  
Yet that he hopes the Parliaments answer will be as gull & worm-wo●d and gravel in their bellies, quashing their spirits, and dashing their hopes: yea and satisfaction in abundance to the true-hearted and well-affected in the kingdom. We know what you would have, wee would but only understand whom you mean by the well-affected party in the kingdom. But to put you partly out of doubt. The Honourable House of Peers have given in their part of satisfaction. All that is expected is the answer of the Honourable House of Commons. From whom without question, the Remonstrants do not doubt of satisfaction. But this is to make the people believe what great friends you have Above: how great a stroke in the House, &c. That this single man can assure such an answer, and knows the heart of the house what will be the mayor Vote when it comes to be debated!  
A second particle of the Remonstrance complained of, is, That the Declaration of the 17. of April last past, was a grieving of the hearts of Gods people, and taking off the hearts of the Parliaments best friends.  
For the truth of the Clause, I say nothing: who so inquires what entertainment it found in all places where were no Independents, will guess whither the clause be true or false.  
For the Relative truth of it, whether it was in the Remonstrance or no I know not: and in this case shall desire the Reader to wait for the defendants Vindication of themselves, and let no man condemn them before he hath heard them speak. Si satis sit accusari nullus erit innocens.  
I take notice of your note that Mr. Thornbeck and Mr. Carter are very careful that Gods people have not their hearts grieved: therefore you hope they are against that State-troubling Principle, drunk in by many of their Tribe, viz. the compelling of men against their consciences to Uniformity in Church-government, &c. Hold there, Sir, you snap fearfully: stay while the bone is thrown you. These men are tender of the grief of Gods people: but it doth not follow therefore that they are against compelling of men against their consciences to Uniformitie in Church-government. There is a difference Sir betwixt Scandalum datum & inventum, or acceptum, a scandal or a grief given: and just this they are tender of, and a scandal or a grief taken or invented, and unjust. The mother is tender of making the child cry without a cause but if it will fit pouting in a corner it knows not for what cause itself, but merely because it will have its will, or the whole house shall be troubled with it; then she whips it. There is again another difference betwixt compelling a conscience which cannot be compelled, and enjoining a practise and another difference betwixt compelling a man to practise this, or else make them do it as Antiochus made the good Jews to eat Swines flesh, and the Papists would have made the Protestants turn: or the Turks will make the Christians be circumcised will they nill they, and enjoining them if they stay in the kingdom to do it: if they cannot, they shall neither have bodies punished, nor States confiscated, but they may go where they may have a toleration. The first they loathe. And desire not the second till necessity call for it. Melius pereat Unus quàm unitas. They are tender of any thing that is a just grief to Gods children, and are against any compulsion of conscience( which cannot be compelled) or of practise so far as to persecute with fire & faggot, or death, or any mulct or confiscation unless by contempt of injunctions of lawful authority, they after shall incur such a censure.  
For what else is in your notes upon that text, I leave it to themselves to answer.  
The third thing he complains of, which should have been Remonstrated and desired, is;  
That Church government might be settled according to our Covenant.  
Reader! dost not wonder where this fellow left his modesty when he complained against this part of the Remonstrance? mark with how much modesty and pious zeal this Petition is mixed, that a man would admire what this black-mouthed Momus can carp at.  
1. That Church government might be settled. And is it not the panting of all that are godly in the Nation? O, we are undone for want of Governmen; what hearts that are honest bleed not to see Gods people seduced? No Sacraments scarce administered: Anabaptists dipping even to death: cobblers Preaching: every venomous tongue railing against all Authority, yea, and all that is called God too almost: Every poisonous pen showing itself against Gods people, truth, Ordinances, &c.  
What man, that hath the heart of a man, hath not a bleeding heart for these distractions? & a soul, that pants not for the government of the Church? especially that these Ministers. Who should complain for want of an hedge: but the husbandman? especially the Ministers of Norwich that are sensible of the want by the daily infection of divers, who though they be but of the inferior sort of women, &c. yet have equally immortal souls. O, but what government would these Ministers have? What! Episcopacy again? or some Government modeled out by themselves. No, onely the government that is.  
According to our Covenant; The duty of the Parliament shall bound these Remonstrants desires. We have lift up our hands to the most high God. O that we would not go back. Is this such a harsh Petition? We humbly beseech you that are our noble Senators, to set up a government in our Church, pitying the rending of our bowels, and the dividing of your people, and the infecting of our flocks: Settle us such a government as we have sworn to the most high God to stablish, that no guilt of perjury ly upon any of our souls. As we have sworn so let us perform. Is this such a design? O, but he knows, If the Sun shines, the owls must to their Ivies. This faction is that that that is onely rich in the ruins of the Church and prospers in the desolations of Sion. Church government is this broods greatest grievance, his craft is done if that once bee settled. Now he puffs and speaks Bulls, any thing in his note.  
What hinders you that you do not endeavour to settle it according to your Covenant?( you Sir, and your faction.) Nay why do you oppose, preach against, and trouble those that do settle Church government according to their Covenant. 
☞  He that runs may read this, &c.  
But Sir, how shall wee settle it? Have the Presbyters( anywhere but in London, and that only for the Classes there) power to ordain according to the Ordinance, or any power to Elect Elders? Is the presbytery confirmed according to the names sent up to the Parliament? if not, where's the power? and who preaches against those that do settle it according to the Covenant? I hope you do not think Independency is a government: Let the name speak; But the mouth of those that speak lies shall be stopped, 63. Psal. 11.  
Another head is, That children are left unbaptised. That he says is the fault of the Parents, not of the Parliament, we would have them, he says, leave the business of the kingdom, and Baptize our Children, why do we trouble them about it?  
Is it not a just complaint that children are left unbaptised almost in all parts of the kingdom? partly because there is a penury of Ministers; partly because Independents have got the livings, & they will baptize none but their own members breed; partly because wee have no penal Law against those that shall wilfully neglect Gods ordinance, nor those that shall renounce their Christianity, and be redipped again, yea and that in Blasphemous manner. One in Essex( if I mistate not) being so Baptized, and the wretch that did it, bid him Receive the Holy Ghost, and within two dayes the new convert runs stark mad; a just example of Gods Vengeance. Is it not a piteous thing that in Sudbury, a Corporation-towne in suffolk, consisting of three great Parishes, and now two Ministers there, and none Baptizeth, but those that will bring the children to the Ordinance must get a Minister out of the places adjacent? Those that will wrong their children so as not to have them Baptized, may, we do not desire the Parliament to Baptize them Sir, nor dare the Parliament of England to do it. It is the impudence of your Laity to put their hands into such sacred services, but wee could wish some penal Law were against Independents, Anabaptists, and some government settled; that those that preach might Baptize as well the Body as private members.  
Another Particle he carpes at is,  
That there were no Church-officers to look to the poor.  
This your memory failed in. It was, that there were no proper Officers, viz. Deacons,( as in the apostolical Institution) to look to the poor. The law of Nature, and the law of the Land teacheth to look to the poor, and it seems wee are but poor Preachers, that we have taught the people no better. That the poor are neglected. Speak sense( Sir) are you sure we teach not our people to look to the poor; is it our fault for want of preaching, or theirs for want of practising what we preach? But are not the poor neglected amongst the Independents, and in Norwitch too? Doth there none complain, that you promised, when they were admitted into your Society, more charity then ever you performed? Turpe est doctori, &c. Sir, mend at home.  
Another particular.  
That there were thirty six Parishes in Norwich, and twenty six without Ministers. He is angry that this is spoken of; the Fox might have lain here, and killed many a lamb, and none ever took notice of it: the Sheep are without a shepherd: But is not this piteous? But, as if he were the Speaker of both Houses, he tells Mastr Thornebeck, he needs not complain of that, he may do well to procure 26. Ministers more. Yes Sir, and who shall procure maintenance? and who shall ordain them to their several places? The Parliament hath given full power and authority; for what Sir, to levy means for them? or to ordain Pastors for each Congregation? or to choose Elders? In what Ordinance is this power given to any, but the City of London? speak Sir, to those that know not: these truth will not go off hand else. He says, in the mean while wee might do well to entertain our neighbours into our Congregations. Whom do ye mean, our neighbour Independents? which of you have been denied?( provided that you would take a pastoral charge.) Indeed, when motion was made for a call of Master Bridges to the City; some of the discreet Magistrates denied their hands, except he would take a pastoral charge. But if ye will onely bee journey-men, wee have nothing to do with you. Who hires a a wolf for his shepherd? he tells Master Thornbeck he might do some good, by his preaching, upon his Neighbour-Malignants. Which of them, Sir? those that throng so much after you? Had not some Tinker picked this Sectaries face, he would have blushed. This man, whom he accuseth( Master Thornebeck) is the sharpest and severest man against Malignants,( as all that know him can testify) in all the Association almost; yet he insinuates, that he is the onely man that Malignants love and throng too. inquire at Rumford in Essex, and Kelved on Esterford, and Bures St. Mary in suffolk, the places of his residence, and at Norwich: but this is one of the new truths.  
Another particular he is angry with, is, that they should join with the Londoners in Petitioning.  
That such as separate from the Church of England might not have any place in the Church, Common-wealth, or Army.  
'Tis false( Sir) your memory failed you, it was, any place of trust. Well, now he chides fearfully: he tells us, When satisfaction is given to the London Remonstrants, then we shall know the Parliaments pleasures in that point. Till then we wait in hope. In the mean time he bids us follow our studies,( and you your shop-board, and leave lying) and learn yourselves( and you some manners, Sir) and teach your people better manners, and you more wit, Sir,) then to order the Parliament whom to trust in the public affairs of the kingdom; we only desire, & Remonstrate our desires.  
For the next: It is answered by the Parliament; I shall pass it over. It only Remonstrated how desirous we were of an Honourable peace, if it might have been obtained.  
For the next, That commissioners were never known in the presbyterial government. This likewise is answered: We rest for that.  
But for the last.  That Traitors to the King were not executed. 

☞  This is a falsehood per totum: No such clause was in the Remonstrance presented June 19. nor was there ever a syllable of Traitor in it. Let the fool run his length here, it nothing concerns us. Well, now he draws towards a conclusion.  
There( some of these, and some part of them) were some of the heads of the said Remonstrance presented by the fore-said Ministers, &c. 'Tis true in part. And many of the well-affected Malignants, Independents, Antinomians, Anabaptists, Men, Women, and Children, having intelligence thereof: it was not carried so secretly, but you might have applied yourselves, with all expedition, to the framing a Petition, to present to the Parliament. Very discreetly done, Sir, to present to the Parliament, to show their respect to the Parliament. Speak the whole truth, Brother, was that all? notwithstanding the Remonstrance, how should that hinder you? which( if it had passed the Vote of the common-council, to present to the Parliament) they would have brought up to the Parliament. It would have been wisely done, who would have hindered? No question the Parliament desires to know the kingdoms grievances. Your Brethren of London had done the like before, and the Honourable House of Commons gave them thanks, Sir. But you would not have had the whole thousand hands that you boast of all gone up in person then, would ye? how many must have gone in the Nurses arms then? and how many must you have been bound for to have returned safely to Gaole then? And how many Malignants must have gone, that durst as well take a Lion by the tooth, as look upon a Parliament-House? And how many poor lob-led Innocents, that knew not what they did! But( Reader) I will lay open these jugglers to you. I shall show you how they got their thousand hands to this Petition, and another Petition before: and thou shalt see what a generation of well-affected, these Brethren a  
These Gentlemen hearing of this Remonstrance, which they judged prejudicial to their cause; thought it was time to get up, and be doing. Whereupon Master H. K. & Master G.B.( who should be Doctor, if he would keep his Act) go and draw this PePetition annexed, and brought it to the Committe of accounts there: one or two subscribed it, the rest refusing. Presently it was dispersed about the country in the name of the Committe, which the poor people had thought had been the Committe of the County. This was done secretly, till it was discovered by a Gentleman at Windham, and brought to the Committe of the County, who all disclaimed it: and these two Gentlemen,( being Committees) being challenged for abusing the whole Committee, to sand out Petitions in their names; They wound off with an evasion, that they intended the Committee of accounts, at which one Gentleman that was there,  told them he was of that Committe, and no such thing past that Board. In conclusion, these two were the men. See now, where are the jesuitical practices? who is the jesuit now, Brother?)  
1. They sand it to people that are in the simplicity of their hearts lead away, and set their hands to they know not what; onely they hear it comes from good men.  
2. They sand it in the Committees name, by whom all would judge that hear. They would have it understood the Committees for the County. But thirdly, when their Plot is discovered.  
3. Then( by their jesuitical reservation, they escape( forsooth) they meant the Committee of accounts. Why did not they speak plain then?  
In the mean while, a Letter is written to Hingham in Norfolk, where grave, and godly Master perk is Minister: If I mistake not, it was writ to the High Constable; the matter was, to persuade him, to get hands to the Petition, and they should do an Acceptable service to that Board. I had thought to have given the Reader an exact copy of their Letter, verbatim; but it could not be gotten so suddenly as to insert in this Pamphlet: for I was was willing to pursue the Thief with an Hue-and-Cry, before he was entertained, and any made accessary to his villainy. You shall have it in my next, with all particulars.  
In the mean while, another is sent towards Soffam, there was a drunken meeting, and( if I remember right) a wrestling after, with one of these Emissaries. When they had all drunk sufficiently, to banish both their wit & reason, stammered out this Petition; and for a jugge of beer might five hundred hands be got at that time. Every one uttered his mind freely: and from that vomiting, very like, came a great part of their hands.( I may mistake, through information; but if I do, I will amend it in the next.)  
Then consider, who they sent to for hands: the most desperate Malignants in Norfolk, and persecutors of all goodness. witness, the first hand which was subscribed to one copy of your Petition, which was a Ministers, who is noted for a desperate Malignant. And Sr. Ch. A. the onely Knight I know you can brag of; and this well-affected man was sequestered, and newly come home from Newarke; 'tis possible something might be promised him from these men too; or at least he might bee feared by them. Delinquents, Malignants, Drunkards, Swearers, all well-affected? others seduced deceived At last with this scraping, and omnium gatherum, they come to the Court of mayor and Aldermen; they with a great deal of Indignation, and Odium, threw it out. Then they brought it to the Committee for the County. In the Interim, some discreet and well-affected Gentlemen, having notice of these under-board practices, drew another Petition, which owned the Covenant and presbyterial government modestly. To which Petition, the mayor, and well affencted Aldermen, subscribed. A copy whereof, was sent to the Gentlemen of the County, and well-affected people, ( not to Delinquents, Sir, nor Newarkers.) The subscription was deferred, by some of the Knights, and Gentlemens appointment, till there were a general meeting of the whole Committee of the County, which was to be about a fortnight after. In the mean time, they had the Petition returned, with some things altered and some thing added; with a desire that it might be prepared against the meeting. Two, or three were appointed for that purpose: but upon second thoughts( hints being given out by the Independents, that if this Petition might be laid down, they would lay down theirs) and regarding the Juncture of time, being when the house was sending away the Propositions, it was concluded, to proceed no further for the present, in that, or any other, Petition. But we thought, less could not stand with good manners, then at the day when the Committee met, who had pleased, in the general, to own our Petition; then to go up, and, tendering our service, thank them; and declare our latter resolutions; and, as we thought( for the present) more expedient thoughts: coming thither,( beyond expectation) they met with Mr. H. K & Mr. G. B. in an out-room, where, after some conference about both the Petition, a motion was made, that the controversy should be referred to the Committe then met, if they would be pleased to trouble themselves with it. Who, though their occasions were great at present, gave the gentlemen audience: and after some debate, the mayor part advised us, that both Petitions should be laid aside for the present, in respect of the weighty affairs the Parl. had then in debate. The Ministers, and well affencted, presently condescended; but Mr. H. K & Mr. G. B being desired to do the same, answered,( according to Lilbourns president) They were free born subjects, Whereupon the Committee shewed great dislike of their carriage. And the Ministers finding such candid, and courteous, carriage from the gentlemen of the Committee, did engage themselves, not to set any Petition on foot, before they had first acquainted the said Committee with it, and imparted it to them,( provided, that the other party of Independents, Malignants, &c. should do the same. Their answer was still, They were free born Subjects. But the Ministers engaged themselves, that they would stand to what they had promised. And at their parting Mr. Thornbeck made this motion to the Board: That in case these Sectaries should( all this notwithstanding) proceed in theirs, the Committee would be pleased to discountenance and suppress them: Which then one of them promised he would do; and so he thought the rest would. None gainsaid it. The Committee thanked the Ministers for their honest and plain dealing; and as much checked the other: The Ministers taking their leave, Mr. Carter made this motion; That that worshipful Board, would be pleased to take especial notice( as no question they did) of eithers carriage and judge accordingly.  
Thus( Reader) thou hast the perfect story Now( brother) who was the juggler? who the jesuit? who the State-disturbers? who the pertinacious conceited men? Is this true now, think you, that you are mere passive creatures, and act nothing? that dare sand out Petitions in the name of the Committee, without their knowledge, and control the whole Committee? Are you the onely free born subiects of the kingdom? Is it your Birth-right to petition, & not ours? Is it a state-disturbance for us to petition, & not for you too? remember what you writ p. 2. Is it none for you, though the whole Committee for the county be against you? Alas, you are holy, harmless, peaceable( speak truth Sir) creatures, useful to the public: for what? to set it on fire? But I must take notice of the Petition, p. 16. being you have printed Either our counsel, or yours  told us it was a breach of privilege of Parliament, & high forfeiture, to print any thing that was directed to the Parliament, whether Petition or Remonstrance, &c before i● had been presented to the House.  
But these are the privileged men, that can break no privileges, forfeit no estate: but why do you say, The Humble Petition of the Knights, &c. What Knight? Sir, except Sir Christopher Atto, just let out of Newarke. Ge tlemen? which of them, Sir; did not the whole board declare against you? Free-holders; how many of them Sir? and Inhabitants of the Cou●ty of norfolk What Inhabitants? Men, women, the boyes, girls, simplo people that knew nothing, but were Tenants, or in some relation to you? And the City of Norwich. What more still? why then did the Ma●or and Aldermen, and that representative city cast it out? it should have run thus. The Petition of the Independents, Delinquents, Malignants, Anabaptists, Antinomia●s, Gallioes, and 2 or 3 honester men of the County of norfolk, and County and City of Norwich. For the Petition itself, let the Parliament judge it. They have appealed thither, thither let them go. Here was the Rise, progress, and ruin of it.  
Nor was this their first juggling with petitioning. Once before they sent out a dangerous Petition, which( if I mistake not) was, for an intolerable Toleration. This was likewise sent out from the same hands in the name of the Committeee for the County of norfolk: the manner was to have Copies of it drawn, and( as I am informed) when any of the Country-men came about any County-bus ness, he was by one or two of them called aside, and a copy given to them to get hands to, as a Petition from the Committee. This was likewise discovered by a discreet Gentleman at W●ndham, and taken from captain B and this Gentleman brought it to one of the Committee, who the next day carried it to the Committee: who all disclaimed it, except those two which were the Authors of it, and resented the matter of so high concernment, and so scandalous, that some of the Gentlemen present thought it fit they should be censured for that abuse of the Country-Gentlemen, and lesse-understanding people. But in conclusion they were well ●hidden for it, and the matter butted.  
Reader, Ex ungue leonem. Construe these men as you find them, and trust them according to their trustiness. I had thought to have added here a full relation of their rise, progress, number, and carriage in this city. And to have answered the latter part of the book falsely styled Vox Populi. But, it would for the present take up too much time, and I am willing to pursue the Fox while the sent is hot. I am confident some of the Ministers too will take them to task, and an answer for themselves. But if not, I shall in convenient time delineate them, and give thee a perfect draft, and stop the mouth of Vox Populi, and present thee with their cry against that Faction, and their undermining dealings amongst us. But let me acquaint thee what entertainment this scurrilous pamphlet found in this city. Threescore and odd of them were sent down to Mr. I. T.( they say) a chief Independent in this City: which being discovered to the Right worshipful the mayor of the city: he viewing the Book, altogether a libellous scandal, belying both the Magistracy and the ministery, and reviling all, and having no Imprimatur to it; sends one of his Officers and ceaseth upon the packet as unlicensed libellous printed untruths: for he durst nor credit that piece of the Frontispiece licenced and entred according to Order except he knew by whom) and took them to his Custody till he should find out who licenced them, who writ them, & who published them, that the Author might be proceeded against as a libeler, & if the book bee not licenced( as no rational man can believe) we will tell you the end of it hereafter. Till when, good Reader farewell.  
For the latter part Vox Populi, it is wholly true for the matter. If one word were but added to the Title, & it were Vox Populi Independentis: Who say Their tongues are their own & they will speak, and must do so too, till God & Authority stop their mouths. Quod faxit Deus.   

Imprimatur,  
Ja: Cranford, Sept. 2. 1646.  
FINIS.