The humble PETITION OF THE MINISTERS Of the Church of England desiring Reformation of certain Ceremonies and abuses of the Church: with the ANSWER Of the vicechancellor, the Doctors, both the Proctors, and other the Heads of Houses, in the University of OXFORD. Printed Anno, 1641. To the Kings most Excellent Majesty. The humble Petition of the Ministers of the Church of England, desiring Reformation, of certain Ceremonies and abuses of the Church. MOst Gracious and dread Sovereign, seeing it hath pleased the divine Majesty, to the great comfort of all good Christians, to advance your Highness, according to your just title, to the peaceable government of this Church and Commonwealth of England: we the Ministers of the Gospel in this Land, neither as factious men, affecting a popular Parity in the Church, nor as Schismatics aiming at the dissolution of the State Ecclesiastical: but as the faithful servants of Christ, and loyal subjects to your Majesty, desiring and longing for the redress of divers abuses of the Church, could do no less, in our obedience to God, service to your Majesty, love to his Church, then acquaint your Princely Majesty with our particular griefs. For as your Princely pen writeth, The King as a good Physician, must first know what peccant humours his patient naturally is most subject unto; before he can begin his cure: And although divers of us that sue for Reformation, have formerly in respect of the times subscribed to the book, some upon Protestation, some upon exposition given them, some with condition, rather than the Church should have been deprived of their labour and Ministry: yet now we, to the number of more than a Thousand, of your Majesty's Subjects and Ministers, all groaning as under a common burden of humane Rites and Ceremonies, do with one joint consent humble ourselves at your Majesty's feet, to be eased and relieved in this behalf. Our humble suit then unto your Majesty is, that these offences following, some may be removed, some amended, some qualified. 1 In the Church Service. That the Cross in Baptism, Interrogatories ministered to Infants, Confirmation as superfluous, may be taken away. Baptism not to be ministered by Women, and so explained. The Cap and Surplice not urged. That examination may go before the Communion. That it be ministered with a Sermon. That divers terms of Priests, and Absolution, and some other used, with the Ring in Marriage, and other such like in the book, may be corrected. The longsomeness of service abridged. Church-songs and Music moderated to better edification. That the Lords day be not profaned. The rest upon Holidays not so strictly urged. That there may be an uniformity of doctrine prescribed. No Popish opinion to be any more taught or defended. No Ministers charged to teach their people to bow at the Name of Jesus. That the Canonical Scriptures only be read in the Church. 2 Concerning Church Ministers. That none hereafter be admitted into the Ministry, but able and sufficient men, and those, to preach diligently; and especially upon the Lord's day. That such as be already entered and cannot preach, may either be removed, and some charitable course taken with them for their relief: or else to be forced, according to the value of their live, to maintain Preachers. That Nonresidency be not permitted. That King Edward's Statute for the lawfulness of Minister's marriage be revived. That Ministers be not urged to subscribe, but, according to the Law, to the Articles of Religion, and the King's Supremacy only. 3 For Churchlivings and maintenance. That Bishops leave their Commendams: some holding prebend's, some Parsonages, some Vicarages with their Bishoprics. That double-beneficed men be not suffered to hold, some two, some three Benefices with Cure, and some two, three, or four dignities besides. That Impropriations annexed to Bishoprics and Colleges, be demised only to the Preachers Incumbents, for the old Rent. That the Impropriations of Laymens' fee, may be charged with a sixth or seventh part of the worth, to the maintenance of the preaching Minister. 4 For Church Discipline. That the Discipline, and Excommunication may be administered according to Christ's own institution. Or at the least, that enormities may be redressed. As namely, That Excommunication come not forth under the name of lay persons, Chancellors, Officials; etc. That men be not excommunicated for trifles and twelve penny matters. That none be excommunicated without consent of his Pastor. That the Officers be not suffered to extort unreasonable fees. That none having jurisdiction or Register places, put out the same to farm. That divers Popish Canons, (as for restraint of marriage at certain times) be reversed. That the longsomeness of suits in Ecclesiastical courts, (which hang sometime two, three, four, five, six or seven years) may be restrained. That the Oath ex Officio, whereby men are forced to accuse themselves be more sparingly used. That licenses for marriage without Banes asked, be more cautiously granted. These with such other Abuses yet remaining and practised in the Church of England, we are able to show, not to be agreeable to the Scriptures, if it shall please your Highness further to hear us, or more at large by writing to be informed, or by conference among the learned to be resolved. And yet we doubt not, but that without any farther process, your Majesty (of whose Christian judgement we have received so good a taste already) is able of yourself to judge of the equity of this cause. God we trust hath appointed your Highness our Physician, to heal these diseases. And we say with Mordecay to Hester, who knoweth, whether you are come to the Kingdom for such a time? Thus your Majesty shall do that, which we are persuaded, shall be acceptable to God, honourable to your Majesty in all succeeding ages, profitable to his Church which shall be thereby increased, comfortable to your Ministers, which shall be no more suspended, silenced, disgraced, imprisoned for men's traditions: and prejudicial to none, but to those that seek their own quiet, credit, and profit in the World. Thus with all dutiful submission, referring ourselves to your Majesty's pleasure, for your gracious answer, as God shall direct you, we most humbly recommend your Highness to the divine Majesty; whom we beseech for Christ his sake to dispose your royal heart to do herein, what shall be to his glory, the good of his Church, and your endless comfort. Your Majesty's most humble Subjects. The Ministers of the Gospel, that desire not a disorderly Innovation, but a due and godly Reformation. The Answer of the vicechancellor, the Doctors, both the Proctors, and other the Heads of Houses in the University of OXFORD, To the Petition of the Ministers of the Church of England desiring Reformation. In their Petition, there are three principal parts. 1 A Preface. 2 A Complaint consisting of four special points; In every of them they desire, that certain Ceremonies and Abuses may be, some of them removed, some amended, some qualified. 3 A Conclusion. For answer whereunto: 1 In General. WE most humbly beseech his most excellent Majesty, that it may be considered, how inconvenient and unsufferable it is in Christian policy, to permit a long and well settled state of government, to be so much as questioned, much more to be a Ipsa mutatio consuctud. nis ctiam quae adjuvat utilitate, novitate perturbat August. ad I anuar. ep. 118. cap. 5. altered, for a few of his subjects: especially considering the matter, pretended to be the cause of these men's grief, and of their desired Reformation, unjustly so called. For it is either the Ceremonies of the Church, or Abuses in the Church, as they allege. Wherein we humbly recommend to his Princely remembrance. First, concerning Ceremonies, that they are either superstitious; and then no ways to be admitted. Of which sort it should seem by the Petitioners, (and we are ready to prove) that the Ceremonies of our Church are not. Because these men confess, that in respect of the times they did subscribe unto them: or if they were such, with what conscience did they subscribe, in respect of the times? Or else, things in themselves indifferent. And then the supreme Christian Magistrate hath lawful b Melan. in 13 ad Rom. Peccatum mortale est violare edicta Magistrate. etc. Heming. in Syntag. c. de Adiaph. Qui violate Ecclesiasticam politiam peccat multis modis, etc. Bez. Epist. 24. add artic. 7. authority to forbid, and we must forbear: to command, and we must obey; not only for fear, but for conscience sake. Of which kind if these Ceremonies be (as we will justify, and they cannot deny) where is then their pretended obedience? Where is their applause of his Majesty's peaceable government? Why do they trouble both Church & Commonwealth, in respect of matters which in duty and conscience they may well, and ought willingly to submit themselves unto? Secondly concerning Abuses, be it considered: first of what quality they are; secondly, of what degree. 1 Touching the nature or quality of them, whether they are in the very Constitutions of our Church, or rather in the Execution of the said Constitutions. If not in the Constitutions themselves, (as when we descend to the particulars it will appear:) there is no cause why the government should be changed; or these men suffered thus to calumniate the State, wherein there is nothing Positive, that is worthy of blame. If in the Execution; (which as we will not absolutely deny, so these men cannot easily prove,) that may be remedied by amending or removing of some certain offenders, without alteration of the State. 2 Touching the degree or grievousness of these abuses, (whether in the constitution, as they suppose, and we deny; or in the Execution, which simply and in every particular, c Calv. adv. Anab art. 2. Vtrique (sc. Cathari & Donatistae) in eodem errore fuerunt, Quo isti somniatores; Ecclesiam quaerente, in qua nibd posset desiderari, etc. no Church in Christendom is able to justify, and yet none, so much as this of ours:) we undert●…e to prove against the Thousand, that mask unknown under that generality, that they are not such, nor so heinous, as deserve this their bitter reprehension: much less such an alteration, in the Church and Common wealth, as would ensue; if these Petitioners might have their desire. 2. In Particular. Concerning the Preface. We do but note. 1 WHat reckoning (in truth) the men do make; of just titles unto Kingdoms, who favour them so d De jure reg. apud Scot De jur. Magist. in subd. Vind. cont. tire. Hotto. Francog. much that were wont to subject all Kin gstitles unto popular election and approbation. 2 What comfort (indeed) the Petitioners take in the peace of his Majesty's government; who in the very entrance thereof, by seeking this, and the like dangerous alterations, do disquiet and disturb the same. Were other men as little enured to peace and subjection, it might occasion some inconvenience. 3 Howsoever in words they decline the imputation of factious men affecting popular parity in the Church, and of Schismatics aiming at the dissolution of the state Ecclesiastical; yet it is too well known in this Kingdom, and by experience it hath been felt in that of e 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, pag. 39.40, 41, etc. Scotland, what manner of men they be: as also, what have been the lamentable effects of their Reformation there, and would have been likewise here, had not the prudent foresight and constant resolution of our late gracious Sovereign continually repressed their attempts. 4 These men might have performed better, Their obedience to God, their service to his Majesty, their love to his Church, (as in the particulars will appear) if they had forborn to trouble his Majesty, the Church of God, and this Commonwealth, with these their causeless griefs and discontentments. They have thereby made such a breach as will not easily (without much wisdom and patience) be cured. For what are these men, that they should assume so much? or what are the whole Clergy of England besides, that they should be so abased and contemned? 5 That which they allege out of his Highness' 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, is a childish fallacy; absurdly taking that for granted, which is the main question. They must prove (and not assume) that these are the peccant humours of this Church, which in truth is the f jewel. Apo. 170 Accessimus quantum maxime potuimus ad Ecclesiam Apost. etc. Et 46. Ea omnia quae aut superstitiosa, etc. Aut cum sacris literis pugnantia, aut etiam sobriis hominibus indigna, etc. prorsus sine ulla exceptione repudiavimus. least peccant of any in the World, and would be much less peccant, if it were clean purged, of these unquiet and malcontented humours. 6 That divers of them have formerly subscribed to the book, (as skornfully they term it) doth manifestly evince, that either our Liturgy is justifiable, themselves being Judges; or else that they did liberally dispense with their own consciences, which is not the part of honest men. To do that in respect of the times, which in itself is not lawful, proveth little less than hypocrisy: to allege unknown Protestations, expositions, and Conditions in their subscription, doth argue no sincerity; and upon due examination, will fall out to be nothing but mere falsity. 7 As for their labours in the Ministry, be they such as they are. This Church of England had been happy if it had not been troubled with their factious Sermons and g Mart. Mar. P. Miles monop. Hay any work and the rest of that spirit. scurrile Pamphlets: which have given the Adversary much matter of advantage, distracted the minds of many weak ones, and quite turned some other from the love of the Truth. 8 The number of more than a Thousand, is but a vizard, which we humbly entreat, may be pulled from their faces, that we may see and know the men, that thus groan under the yoke of a Christian and commendable government; which (maliciously and injuriously) they would have reputed, a most heavy burden of humane Rites and Ceremonies. The vanity of which their complaint, comes now more particularly to be discussed. Concerning the matters of their Complaint: 1 Of the Church service. 1 IN the Church service we are ready to maintain, (but they must object first and prove the contrary) that the a Tert. de Cor. mil. cap. 3. Cross in Baptism, b Aug. Ep. 23. Interrogatories ministered to Infants, and c Hieron. count. Luc. confirmation, are most ancient, justifiable, and convenient Ceremonies, and therefore to be continued. 2 That the Church of England, nor the book of Common prayer doth not prescribe, that Baptism should be administered by women. Though we deny it not to be h Chytrae. de Bap. & in Leu. Sneph de Bap. Zuingl de Bap. Hicrbr. in Comp. Theol. Baptism, if perchance de facto, it be by them administered. Fieri non debuit, factum valuit. 3 That the Cap and Surplice be not urged, it is an absurd speech and implies confusion. For so every man should be suffered in that behalf to do what him liketh. Again, do not their own words import that they may well be used? but they must not be urged. why? what is there in a Cap or in a Surplice that should i Buc. de revest. pag 707 Pet. Mart. Ep. ad Hap. Aug. Ep. 154. Calvi. in Ex. 23. offend any man of judgement. 4 That Examination where need is should go before the Communion, who disliketh? Or that it be ministered with a sermon? But that it should not be ministered without a sermon, is absurd; and hath bred in many a vain and false opinion, as if, not the word of Christ's institution, but rather the word of a Ministers exposition, were a k T. Cl. 1. p. 158 necessary and an essential part of the Communion. Besides he that readeth our Communion book, shall see that therein the whole manner, end, and use of that holy Institution, is so excellently described, as may be instead of many Sermons. Also that none should be admitted to that blessed Sacrament (of what age, state, or condition so ever) except they were first examined after the Consistorian fashion, were insolent, injurious, and in many respects most in convenient. 5 The terms of l Isay 66.21. Where the Geneva note doth show, that the Ministers of the new Testament are to be termed Priests. Priests and Absolution: the * Bucer. in Censur. cap. 20. Ring in Marriage and such other, which they have heretofore traduced in their unlearned discourses, are by divers of our learned Divines, and shall be justified. As contrariwise by the Petitioners they will never be evicted worthy to be abolished. 6 Their desire to have the longsomeness of service abridged doth well befit their great Devotion. Who notwithstanding are wont to spend an hour sometimes or little less, in extemporary, inconsequent, and senseless prayers conceived rashly by themselves. From hence, their dislike of set and stinted forms of prayer, it doth proceed, that some of them omit, some refuse to repeat, some condemn the use of the Lords Prayer; from hence hath Barrow and Greenewood taken their beginning, and fetched the premises of their pestilent and blasphemous Conclusions. 7 Church m Just Mart. in quaest. ad Orth. q. 107. Aug Confess. lib. 10. cap. 33. songs and Music are much beholden to these men now: in as much as they can be content to digest them, so they be moderated to better edification. The time was when we have heard them speak in this point after another sort. Meritricious Church Music, Tossing of tennis balls, and such like were their phrases of Gods divine service: but thanked be God that his Majesty's devout affection in this kind hath forced from them this moderation. 8 That the Lords day be not profaned, he is very profane that desireth not from his heart. But what manner of lawgivers are they that lay down their coustitutions in such Negatives, in such Comparatives? for who can divine what they would have, when they desire that the Rest upon n Pet. Martyr. Epist. ad Hopperum. Holy days be not so strictly urged? Would they have men upon such days go to plough and cart, as some of their humour have caused their servants to do, on the very feast of Christ's Nativity? Or do they mean, that we should take to ourselves such liberty therein, as certain persons lately have done; who being commanded by lawful authority to celebrate the fifth of August, with joy and thanksgiving for his Majesty's most strange and wonderful deliverance upon the said day, did notwithstanding spend the same (as we are credibly informed) in fasting & mourning and such like works of their obedience? Nay, these and the like experiments do cause us, humbly and instantly to desire, that both Sundays and Holydays may be religiously observed, and the intolerable profanation of them, which is the rather brought in by these men's preach and examples, may be very severely punished. 9 That there may be an Uniformity of Doctrine prescribed: That no Popish opinions may be any more taught or defended. What imputations are these? how prejudicial? How injurious? Not only unto the Church government, but unto the Christian faith established in this Realm? What advantage do these men in these shameless suggestions reach unto the Papists? as if there were no o We refer to the Articles of Religion agreed upon & established in Convocation. Anno 1562. uniformity, no consent of doctrine among us: (so ye except them.) As if there were some popish opinions taught & defended in our Liturgy? (as they deem who are ready to make every thing p Zanch. conf. cap. 24. de Eccl. Milet. Aph. 19 Popery which they do not fancy) These are the weapons with which Bellarmine and that Brood, are wont to wound, or rather falsely to reproach our faith and profession. Good had it been that these men had never been able to write, rather than to write thus, to the scandal of God's Church, and his sacred truth. 10 Reverence done at the name of jesus, is no superstition, but an outward sign of our inward subjection to his divine Majesty, and an apparent token of our devotion. Why do they not likewise fin I fault with kneeling, sighing, weeping, lifting up of eyes, knocking of breasts, holding up of hands unto heaven? All which good men may use in God's service with great piety, though Hypocrites do otherwise. 11 They are grossly ignorant if they know it not, or wilfully malicious and turbulent, if knowing it to be lawful, they yet oppugn the reading of the Apocryphal Scriptures or Writings in the Church. Non ad confirmationem fidei, sed ad reformationem, or institutionem morum, as the Ancient q Hiero. Praef. in Pro. Cypr. in Symb. Pellic. praefan Apocr. fathers speak and approve. As also the Articles of convocation, and the Prefaces before the Apocryphal books in the English Bibles, do directly show: adding that hey give light, to the divine story. 2. Concerning Church-ministers. 1 WE hearty desire that able and sufficient men be admitted into the Ministry. That they preach diligently, and that on the Sunday especially. But who shall judge of their sufficiency? Or doth not the sufficiency of Ministers Suscipere magis & minus? Were the Ministers of the Primitive Church, all of them able to preach? Did not some of them preach the Gospel, r Chrysost in 1 Cor 1. Pet. Martyr. in 1 Cor. 1. Gualtan 1 Cor. 1 Cal. in 1 Cor. 1. Bucer. in Eph. a. and other some read the Scriptures, and administer the Sacraments? Or hath not the urging of that strange doctrine, viz. That he is no Minister that cannot preach, first forced men to take upon them to expound God's Word, that thereby have brought the Word of God, and the sacred exercise of preaching into lamentable contempt, through their absurd, senseless, and irreligious glosses, and paraphrases, and discourses: whiles they have chosen rather so to do, then to be accounted, Idol-shepheards, Dumb dogs, No Ministers, and such like? Secondly hath it not made the Brownists confidently to reproach us, that our s Barrowes books, etc. Perpetual government of the Church. Pag. 339. Church is no Church, our Sacraments no Sacraments, our Prince and people infidels, as not being baptised at all, our Christian Congregations profane multitudes, etc. only because some in the Ministry could not nor did not preach? But in this point it would be considered especially, first that it is not possible to have all Ministers men of worth, till all Church-livings be very sufficient to maintain men of worth. Secondly, that the way to invite men of best parts to take upon them the Ministry, is not to expose and subject that calling to want and beggary, which in the third part of this their complaint, these men do principally intent. And lastly that howsoever these men do please themselves in their extemporary gift; yet many of them, though in show very audacious, do to withstanding deserve for their gross ignorance, to be blotted out of the number of preachers, truly so called. 2 How charitable these men are, that would have men t Har conf. ex Helu. Post. De Minist. ca 18 Agnoscimus, etc. Vnde ne hodie quidem rejicimus simplicitatem quorundam probam, etc. removed out of the Ministry, because they cannot preach; (whereas some of them were entreated to take that function upon them, when men more able could not be gotten; and others in their younger years, have been of more sufficiency, than now their age, sickness, or other infirmity, will permit them to be:) And how judicious, that would have them to maintain preachers, who (for the most part) have not wherewith for to maintain themselves, we leave to the consideration of the wise. How much better hath our Church devised, to supply the defects of some men, in some places of mean value, by other means? As namely, 1. By the frequent reading of the Scriptures: A matter more u Zanc. Conf. obs. in cap. 15. Aph. 10.11. available unto faith and godliness, than the Petitioners do imagine; and would be much more, if it were not brought into contempt, by their suggestions. 2. By a most religious and excellent x B. Ridley to M. Grindall then beyond the seas. Alas that brother Knox could not bear with our book of common prayer, etc. The reasons he maketh against the Litany, etc. I do marvel how he can or dare avouch them, etc. form of Common prayer. 3. By Sermons and Homilies printed and appointed to be read, both for the confirmation of the faith, and for reformation of manners. All which in a Church not new to be planted, but now settled and well grounded in the profession of the truth, are ordinary effectual means, to continue and increase them, in the true faith and fear of God. Hereunto may be added the manifold provisions in our Church, for sermons quarterly, or more often, in those Cures, where the Incumbents cannot preach. 3 That Nonresidency be not permitted. It is a matter of wise and sound deliberation: first, y The bounds of Parishes are not the jure divino. what non-residency is; for many men in our Church, have two parishes committed to their charge, which both will not make one living. Again, many have but one parish under them, which yet would require more than two, or ten men to speak at once to all the Congregation. Secondly it is, and long hath been permitted, by wise and godly Magistrates, that have given way to it, by their positive prudent Laws, as necessary, in some Cases, in a few men, and them (generally and by intendment) of the best deserts. Thirdly that it is absolutely unlawful, and in z The answer to the 2. treatise of the Abstract. no sort to be suffered, neither hath been proved, nor ever will, by all the schismatics in the Land. Fourthly, in what congruity may he be counted an idle Nonresident, that is always present and taketh pains, in some part; and often in every part of his charge; Fiftly, there are not more intolerable non-resident in England, than some of those, that are either included in the Thousand afore mentioned, or that favour this their attempt: Especially if they shall be measured by those places of Scripture, which they are wont to allege against non-resident after the Texts be well examined. Lastly, it is not possible (as Church-livings are now* allotted) that simply not Nonresidency should be permitted, a To alter the precincts of parishes, is a matter of greater consequence, than the Abstractor, or many moe such shallow heads can possibly conceive. and yet withal a learned Ministry maintained, Princes and Peers of the Land attended, Colleges and Cathedral Churches continued, the Universities present, and hope of succession in them for hereafter, preserved, propagated and supported. 4 The Marriage of Ministers we do not dislike, but maintain the lawfulness thereof against the Church of Rome: and humbly desire (if there be need) that the supreme Magistrate, will add thereunto, by his royal authority and the law of the Land, such farther strength and confirmation, as shall seem fit to his high wisdom. 5 We know of no Subscription that is urged, which is not agreeable to law, required by the orders of our University, necessary in a Christian Commonwealth, profitable for the Church of God, approvable by all judicious learned men, and disliked of none, but of a few folk, that are overmuch addicted to their own opinions. Who notwithstanding, where a The laws and statutes of Gen. In the form of Oath, which the Ministers receive. Sect 2. Beza in veta Cal. pag. 910. they bear the sway, it is worth the consideration, how strictly they tie all them that will live among them, to the observation of their Church government. And in truth (so the things in themselves be not intolerable) better so, then that which is here proposed. For the not urging of a conformity in Church discipline, is to to set open the high way to all disorder and Confusion. 3. Concerning Church maintenance. 1 THat Bishops leave their Commendams. In case some of the ancient revenue might be restored to their Bishoprics, he were utterly unworthy to be a Bishop, that would desire a Commendam. But, as now the most of them are impaired, to take away from all Bishops all manner of Commendams, is (in truth) to tie the King's hands, that he shall not be able, though he would, (and where he will not, no Commendam can be given;) to make his most faithful servants, or other men of best desert in the Ministry, able to maintain their places and callings, by his Majesty's favour, and gracious dispensation, when otherwise their Bishoprics are not sufficient so to do. So as if it be well weighed, they do not so much intent in this particular to impoverish some few Bishops, as indeed utterly to overthrow them, and generally to restrain the King's Prerogative. 2 Of the same nature is that which followeth. For no man, except he be the King's Chaplain, may hold three Benefices with Cure; and those of his Highness own gift. So that here also they desire to limit the King's favour. Again, it is not known, that there be five in all this Land, that hold three such Benefices. And then what good dealing is this in the Petitioners, to make the world believe, that it is a common fault, which is scarce to be found in a few? 3 Their disposing of Impropriations, The Ecclesi. asticall discipl. pag. 114. doth notably bewray their lack of Conscience, their little love to learning and Religion, their temporising and fitting their motions to the Laieties good liking. For who seethe not that it would be the certain overthrow, and utter ruin of Bishoprics, Colleges, and Cathedral Churches, if their Impropriations should be demised to Vicars or Curates, the Incumbents, at the old rent, without fine, without improvement? Again, who be they, and how many, that by this means would be provided for? A few, and those the meanest of the Clergy. But the inconveniences that would hereof ensue, are very many, and intolerable. Therefore we reserve that discourse to a fit opportunity. On the other side, who doth not know, that for a Layman to hold an impropriation (which is a Tithe) is originally unlawful, and clean contrary to the first institution? Yet these men in all their purity, zeal, and conscience, can content themselves, and their preaching Incumbents, with the seventh part only of an Impropriation, in a Layman's fee. 4 Are these all, or the best means, that a Thousand men, such as they would be reputed, can propose to his Highness for the bettering of the Church maintenance? If we might know, that it would stand with his Majesty's good liking, and should not be imputed unto us as a breach of duty; It were very possible, that the men whom they so much contemn, would be able to propose some other course for the bettering of the Church maintenance, with out the alteration or injury of any other state. 4 Concerning Church Discipline. 1 UNder the name of their Discipline, we have been heretofore taught by these men to understand, The kingdom of Christ upon earth. A thing of no less importance than the d Eccles. Disci. pag. 13. T.C. Epist. to the Church of England. Gospel of Christ Jesus; An essential part of the Gospel. A matter of faith to be received upon pain of damnation: An essential mark of the true Church without the which our Church was no Church, our faith no faith, our Gospel no Gospel, etc. And it is now come to be so indifferent, that it may be administered accordingly; Or else at the least, that these enormities may be redressed? Will it now suffer such an Or else, at the least. Were we persuaded that their Discipline, their Presbytery, the life and being of their Discipline, were indeed of Christ's institution; were we persuaded it were a part of God's Word, an essential part of his Word; could we be contented to be without it? Can we content ourselves to live any where but under it? Would we not redeem it with much peril and pain? With certain loss? And that willingly? But the experience that his most excellent Majesty hath had, of the manifold mischiefs and miseries that attend their pretended Discipline, doth make them not dare to speak plainly for it. They therefore falter in seeking to obtain that, which yet in heart they do affect, and specially desire. But to these Enormities; these heinous Enormities. Is it not well, that now at length, these quicksighted men can espy no fouler Enormities in our Church government? Enormities. 1 THAT Excommunication come not forth under the name of Lay persons. First, it may truly be said, that though it did come forth under the name of a Chancellor or a Commissary, yet came it not forth under the name of Lay persons. For a Chancellor or a Commissary is not a Layman in this case: The Ordinary and He are but Vnus Judex. Or rather, whatsoever the Chancellor doth in this behalf, he doth it in the authority of the Ordinary, according to the power that is committed unto him. A thing not unusual in the Civil state, wherein the Lord Chancellor doth dispose of many things, which are originally in the Crown; and again, writeth Teste meipso unto many particulars, that never pass by bill assigned. Secondly, No Lay-Chancelor or Commissary whatsoever doth at any time excommunicate any man; or sendeth out in his own name any excommmunication. But this is the practice of the Church of England. In e Const. Eccle. 1597. cap. de Excess. circa Excom. refor. the censuring of notorious and more grievous crimes, the Archbp, the Bishop, the Dean, the , or a Prebendary that is a Priest, pronounceth the sentence of Excommunication in his own person. And in matters of less offence, as contumacy in not appearing, and the like, the Vicar-general, Official or Commissary, that is not in holy orders, holdeth this course. First, upon knowledge and examination of the cause, he adjudgeth the party worthy to be excommunicated; then the Minister (associated unto him by express authority from the Ordinary) doth pronounce the sentence of Excommunication against him; Lastly, the Chancellor sendeth to the Pastor of the Parish where that party dwelleth, requiring him, publicly to declare the said party to be a person excommunicated by the sentence of the Minister his associate. And all this, according to the form of the Articles set forth by her Majesty's authority, Anno 1597. Thirdly, are not these execellent Enormity makers, that can find such an Enormity in the Name of a Layman (in whose name notwithstanding, the excommunication never cometh forth) when yet, if it did come forth in his name, the nature of the thing itself is such, as justly cannot be reproved? They are not ignorant, that excommunication doth proceed as is aforesaid; if not in the name, yet in the Authority and Jurisdiction of the Bishop, or some other chief Clergyman, to whom the power of the Keys doth belong, and unto whom the Church of England hath assigned the execution of that part of our Discipline. Who, if they use the advice and Ministry of a wise and religious Civilian, in decreeing who is to be excommunicate, (whereupon those f Perpetual govern, of the Chu. pa. 320. outward penalties do ensue, which attend the authority, and follow the sentence of Excommunication, in this Church & Common wealth:) how doth that in any wise violate Christ's institution as touching excommunication? Lastly, if the Discipline they long for, were once on foot among us, we should then hear tell of certain Lay-parsons' that aught to have a principal hand in their excommunications. Thus, as they are weak in judgement for matter of learning in this point, not being able to resolve of any thing in certain; so are they as partial in prescribing their plots for matter of practice; whiles they reprove that in others, which in themselves they do allow. Except peradventure they will tell us (and we must needs believe them) that their Lay-Elders become Clergy men ipso facto, because they are of their Consistory; & have voices (according to their learning) in these Ecclesiastical censures. 2 That none be excommunicated for g The order of Excom. etc. in the Church of Scot Printed June, 1571. Cap. 4. Thus any small offence may justly descrve Excommunication, by reason of the contempt & disobedience of the offendor. trifles and twelve penny matters. They are not. Contempt is then the greater, when the matter wherein they show their contempt is of lesser value: As contrariwise, obedience is then more commendable, when it is seen in a matter of greater difficulty. But these men are so accustomed to disobedience, that they account it but a trifle; And therefore calumniate us and our discipline; as if with us, men were excommunicated for trifles, when (in truth) they are censured for their contempt. 3 That none be excommunicated without consent of his Pastor. Without consent, is a captious term. For in our understanding, the Minister of the Parish doth give his consent, when he publisheth the excommunication; as also when he doth certify what he hath done in denouncing the same. And this manner of consent we take to be sufficient, and as much as is requisite in a private Pastor, that hath no Jurisdiction. But what is it that these men do mean? Would they (think you) that every Pastor should have a Negative in the excommunicating of his Parishioners? Undoubtedly they would: threby intending the utter overthrow of the present Church government, and in steed thereof the setting up of a Presbytery in every Parish. Or rather, that which is worse (if worse may be) the enabling of every particular Pastor to Excommunicate by himself h Perpetual government of the Church, pag. 321. alone. Except peradventure they will say, that the particular Pastor ought to be joined in commission with the Chancellor. And then behold what would ensue. On the Minister, a world of troubles: he must be sent for as oft as any of his parish is presented, he must attend the hearing and debating of the whole cause; he must be present as oft as the Chancellor sitteth, as long as the matter dependeth, to his great travail and pains, his excessive charge, and the causeless neglect of his calling. On the other side, if this Minister will be wilful, and in fine dissent from the Chancellor in opinion; then is all the labour lost; the Judge hath spent his skill and care in vain, and the Bishop's Consistory must down to the ground: either Pastor must prevail, or nothing must be done; To the intolerable hindrance of Justice, and excessive detriment of the plaintiff. These and the like, are the well advised Propositions, whereof there is store in their Discipline. By which it doth sufficiently appear, that as yet it is not throughly refined. 4 Extorting of unreasonable fees, who approveth? Who disliketh not? Who would not have it redressed, in any that offend? Besides there are very i Constit. Eccl. 1597. cap. de Feodisquae off. Eccles. severe laws already made in that behalf. 5 Farming out of Jurisdictions and Registers places, though we commend it not, nor greatly like of it; yet it is of itself a matter indifferent; neither good nor ill, but as it is used. 6 The restraint of Marriage at certain times (falsely called a Popish Canon) was k Consil. Laodi. Can. 52. anciently used in the Church of God; and being rightly understood, is now commendable in this of ours. 7 The Long-somnes of Suits in Ecclesiastical Courts, is a matter of fact, not of Constitution; nor is the fault of the Court, nor of the Judge necessarily (as these men would seem to imply,) but sometime error in pleading, sometime the intricateness of the cause, sometime the perverseness of the Client, sometime the cunning of the Proctors, are the occasion that suits depend long. And when all is said, that they can say, this is none other fault than is incident to the course of Justice at the Common Law; and might befall their Consistory, or a better and more equal kind of trial. 8 The Oath ex officio, is used as it ought, by men of place, of wisdom, and experience; by men of Religion, learning, and conscience. Unto whom the authority to administer it as occasion is offered doth justly belong, not by special Commission only, but by the laws of this land, by the two Laws Canon and Civil; and by the warrant of sundry examples of the word of God: as that worthy and learned Dean of the Arches (the ornament & honour of his profession in his time) in his judicious l The Apolog. 2 part, Cha 9 and so forth to the end of the same. Apology of certain proceed in Courts Ecclesiastical, doth prove at large, 9 Licenses for Marriage without Banes, are most cautiously granted; and that upon m Const. Eccl. 1597. cap. de mother. indulg. severe punishment to ensue, if so be the Constitution be violated. But what will satisfy these men, who thus intimate unto his Highness, that there is rigour in the former point, and negligence in this, when as all moderation and carefulness is used in them both? And are not these heinous enormities? Their Conclusion. THe ilde vaunt that the Petitioners make of being able to show that these and other such abuses (as they call them) remaining and practised in the Church of England, are not agreeable to the Scriptures, doth appear to be the more ridiculous; because they have passed over in deep silence many learned n The perpet. gover of Chri. Chur. Asurvey of the pret. holy disc. The answer to the Abstract. The Apol. of certain proceed in Court Eccle. A treatise of Eccles. Discip. De Presbyt. ejusque nova etc. De div. Minist. Evan. grad, etc. The Remonstrance. Querimonia Ecclesiae. The 5 books of the laws of Eccles. polit. Tracts published long since, wherein their vain fancies, and illiterate objections are refuted at large. If notwithstanding they will yet venture to write, it will be answered; If they will needs argue and dispute, there are ready that will either satisfy them, or by argument silence them. And were it not in regard that we would not seem as undutiful in accepting, as they have been in the offering of this Challenge: it is the thing we would urge, and instantly entreat, that these matters might be debated between us in writing. But in the mean time, what motions are these for the reformers to make unto a most prudent Prince in his settled and peaceable government; who for many years, hath had trial in that his other kingdom, of their pretended reformation; and in this also hath seen the gracious effects under her Majesties late happy Reign of that Church Discipline, which they would ruinated and overthrow. God hath appointed his Majesty unto this Kingdom. It is true; and we magnify the goodness of God for it, and congratulate his Highness in the prosperous possession of it, from the ground of our hearts. But that God hath appointed him to this kingdom for such a purpose as they conceit; what spirit of divination is in them, that they should forespeak it? Nay rather, seeing almighty God hath ordained him as the great Physician (next and immediately under himself,) to take care of the body politic, both of his Church and Commonwealth; he will surely cure such diseases, as these men are sick of. (For turbulent and discontented humours are like to breed very dangerous diseases in a civil State:) And not be persuaded (as they fond imagine) by such suggestions as these, to alter that state of the Church, which is acceptable to God, honourable to his Highness, comfortable to many thousand Ministers, the Nurse of good learning, admirable to strangers, approved by our * The letters that Mr. Beza. hath written to the Arch. bish. of C. that now is. Opposites, envied of our enemies, distasteful unto none, but such as know neither how to rule, nor how to obey. The very names of punishments are unpleasant indeed; but the things themselves are necessary sometimes, and their effects good and profitable for preservation of the whole; howsoever the enduring of them, may be grievous in the particular. And he that will indifferently consider the true causes of the corrections here mentioned; shall have just cause to approve the Justice, * Conspiracy for pretended Reformation. and commend the mildness, that hath been used towards this sort of men. As for that clause of men's traditions, it is too too odious; and would imply Superstition or Popery to be in some of them; But how vainly, and how injuriously, hath in some sort been heretofore declared. That other of being prejudicial to none but those that seek their own, etc. is as injurious to all the rest of the Min sters of this land. Be we the men that are so addicted to our own quiet, credit, and commodity in the world? Where then be the the fruits of our covetousness, the effects of our ambition, the marks of our idleness? We be the men, that in the testimony of a good conscience, for the repelling of such a malicious contumely, and slanderous reproach, may truly say: We put not out our money to usury; we detest all filthy lucre; we contain ourselves within our Vocations; we forsake not our holy callings, we omit not to labour in our several charges; we sustain the places of great labour, travail, and expense; we neglect not in public, in private, in word, in writing, at home and abroad, to put to silence, and stop the mouth of the common Adversary, which these men have enlarged against us, and our most holy faith. To conclude, the thing they seek is so prejudicial, both to the Civil state in general, and in particular, to so many of the very best of the Ministry; that if it should take effect, but God of his mercy, and the Kings most excellent Majesty in his Christian wisdom, will not suffer it) it would breed a strange alteration in the One; and in the Other it would for the present, not only impoverish us, and our Universities, but make both them and us, and the whole Clergy very base and contemptible in the eyes of our own people, as also a byword and scorn to our neighbour Nations; And for succeeding ages, it would cut off all hope of a learned Ministry, and of that grounded learning, which as yet is, and heretofore hath been, the glory and honour of this kingdom. For manifestation of this point, look upon the face of all the reformed Churches in the world; and wheresoever the desire of these Petitioners doth take place, be it duly considered; first, how well their proceed do suit with the state of a Monarchy; And then, how poverty on the one side, and lack of learning on the other, doth creep upon the whole Clergy in those Dominions. As to the first: would it not beseem the supereminent authority and Regal person of a King, to be himself confined within the limits of some particular parish; & then to subject his sovereign power, to the pure Apostolical simplicity, of an overswaying and all-commanding Presbytery? Would it not do him much good, in a time of need, that his people should be rooted and grounded in this truth; viz. That his meek and humble Clergy, have power to bind their King in chains, and their Prince in links of iron? that is (in their learning) to censure him, to enjoin him penance, to excommunicate him? yea (in case they see cause) to proceed against him as a tyrant? We speak not here of other points, as namely, that all appeals in causes Ecclesiastical (and what do they not make Ecclesiastical?) must finally lie, not unto the Prince, but unto the Assembly Provincial; That they allow the supreme Magistrate, not potestatem juris, but only facti; while they make him the maintainer of their proceed, but no commander in them. These and the like, are but petty abridgements of the Prerogative Royal, while yet the King a T.C. l. 1. p. 180 submits his Sceptre unto the Sceptre of Christ, and licks the dust of the Church's feet. Neither may it be truly said, that these are only Speculations. There are some of high place yet alive, and other some are dead, that have felt the smart hereof in their own experience, and have seen the worst of all this put in woeful execution. As to the second. Do we not see it at this day verified among them, which hath been so often truly said, and as often unadvisedly denied, that honos alit arts; and contrariwise, where due reward of learning and liberal maintenance of the Ministry, is fraudulently impaired, or injuriously taken away, b Ecclesias. difcipl. pag. 114. there Religion and learning come to decay? There Atheism and Barbarism and confusion must needs ensue? It is too aparent, that as the revenues of those Churches have been embeazled by men of corrupt minds, Psal. 83.11. which said in their hearts, as it is in the Psalm, Let us take to ourselves the houses of God in possession: so the remainder of that grounded learning, which was bred up in former times, is now through succession of time, almost clean worn out. Nec bona tam sequitur, quam bona prima fuit. Insomuch, that there is neither sufficient maintenance in those parts, for any store of excellent learned men, nor yet many men brought up among them in this last reforming age, worthy of that wont honourable maintenance. God knows we speak not this with a detracting Spirit but with grief of heart: to see the ruins of the Ministry in particular, and generally of all profound learning in other reformed Churches. As likewise to stir up this whole nation to a thankful acknowledgement of that singular blessing in this behalf, which God of his goodness hath long, and yet doth continue unto us of this Realm. And withal, to put to silence the malicious ingratitude of those evil men, which looking upon us & this Church through the coloured glass of their prejudicated opinions; can see nothing among us but defects and deformities, and abuses and enormities, and the like. And therefore in their high discretion, would have us reduced and made conformable to the calamities of other places. Whereas, in truth, if we shall bring back the eyes of our minds from foreign parts, and indifferently (without either detraction or flattery) take notice of the present state of this Church and Commonwealth; we shall easily discern, that it were an incomparable happiness for them, if all that profess the truth as it is in Christ Jesus, were in our condition. We shall see, how that our Church government is duly subordinate unto the supreme civil state, and withal doth mightily support the same. That our reverend Prelates (men of singular worth, not to be matched in any one kingdom) though preferred unto highest rooms, do yet contain themselves within such bounds as preserves that estate from creeping to any Papal corruptions. That our inferior Clergy, by their godly and painful labours in their vocation, have been and are the most effectual means to settle the tranquillity of this land; by inducing men's minds to Piety towards God, Loyalty to their King, and civil honesty among themselves. That our people generally (excepting some few malcontents of all sorts, whom we leave to the mercy of the Magistrate) are enured unto Peace, accustomed to subjection, detest disloyalty, and with all alacrity yield their obedience unto their Sovereign. That the Colleges, the Cathedrall-Churches, Saravia de facrilegiis, ca 9 the Bishops and other Ministers of this land, have yet remaining unto them (yet after the many and great spoils of this Church; which notwithstanding, never prospered with them that got them, but were as rust to the rest of their silver and their gold, or as a Canker, that fretted out themselves, their posterity or their possessions) that yet there is remaining unto them more competent and sufficient maintenance; more comfortable and honourable encouragements, than there are to all other reformed Churches in Christendom. That answerable thereunto (to stop that mouth of iniquity, which is wont to traduce us, for a dumb, unlearned Idol Ministry) there are at this day more learned men in this Land, in this one kingdom; 1 Cor. 9 2 Cor. 13. then are to be found among all the Ministers of the Religion in France Flanders, Germany, Poland, Denmark, Geneva, Scotland; or (to speak in a word) all Europe besides. Which yet, may not justly be imputed to us for vanity, the Apostle that knew how to be abased, and to make himself of no reputation; yet when the impeaching of his personal gifts was abused to the disgrace of his calling; did without either arrogancy or folly, give his Detractors plainly and roundly to understand, that he was not inferior to the chief Apostles, nay that he laboured more than they all; and so by his own just defence & commendation, did free himself, his worth and his vocation, from their base and odious imputations. In a like case (we doubt not) a truth may be averred of ourselves, even by ourselves, without any ostentation at all; when it is so injuriously impeached & trodden under foot, to the high dishonour of God, the disgrace of his Gospel, and to the slander of this most Christian Commonwealth. Psal 47.10. Yea the rich mercies that God hath continued unto us these 45 years, aught to replenish our hearts with joy, and that our lips should break forth with thankfulness & sing, Non facit taliter omni natione; neither have the Regions round about us been made partakers of the like blessings. Now the father of Mercies, and God of all Consolation, enlarge the wise and understanding heart of our thrice noble King, noble in birth, noble in wisdom, noble in all manner of good learning; assist him ever with his holy Spirit, the spirit of Council, of Sanctification and of Truth: make him admirable in the swaying of this Sceptre as was Solomon in all the world, as long as he walked in the first way of his father David: That so he may long wear this mortal Crown, in all abundance of piety, peace and prosperity, and hereafter obtain that immortal Crown that Christ hath purchased for them which by continuance in well doing seek glory and honour and immortality. FINIS.