LIGHT FOR SMOKE: OR, A CLEAR AND DISTINCT REPLY by JOHN LEY, One of the Assembly of Divines at WESTMINSTER, TO A DARK AND CONFUSED Answer in a Book made, and entitled The Smoke in the Temple, by john Saltmarsh, late Preacher at Brasteed in Kent, now revolted both from his Pastoral calling and charge.  Psal. 37. vers. 6. 
He shall bring forth thy righteousness as the light, and thy judgement as the noon day.  
Whereto is added, Novello-mastix, or a Scourge for a scurrilous News-monger.  
LONDON, Printed by I. L. for Christopher Meredith, at the sign of the Crane in Paul's Churchyard. 1646.   

TO THE RIGHT WORSHIPFUL, Sr. WILLIAM STRICKLAND KNIGHT, and HERBOTTLE GRIMSTON Esquire, two worthy Members of the Honourable House of COMMONS.  
Right worthy Sirs,  
I Presented you with a former Book against Mr. Saltm. his Remora to the Reformation in hand, as I did other mine honoured and worthy friends; this I offer to your view as to Judges of the difference betwixt him and me, as it hath been a graduate by the press from an Answer to Reply, from that to a rejoinder, where for the present the period is fixed, and for my part it shall be to me as an Herculean pillar, (beyond which I will not sail) and this resolution with my Reasons I have imparted to Mr. Saltm. in a particular Epistle to himself. But though I proceed no further with him in the reciprocation of Replies, you may be pleased, having acquaintance with him, as he maketh his addresses to you, or as any opportunity presenteth him before you, to contribute some of your discreet counsels for better employment of his parts and pen, then in crying down that Discipline and Government, as terrible and tyrannical, which the prudent Senators of both the Honourable Houses of Parliament in part have set up, and further endeavour to advance; and in damning the maintenance of Ministers as Antichristian and jewish, which the same authority by many ancient Acts, and yourselves with your Honourable Associates by a late Ordinance have established.  
For the former, I profess unto you, it is matter of wonder unto me, how any man can have the face to make such outcries against the Government, as he and some others do, as if it were more formidable than Prelatical domination in the highest degree; when every Bishop by his own power set out Articles in his Visitation, concerning all aberrations from Ecclesiastical Canons, whether sins or no sins, and by a mere Arbitrary power made many times crimes of duties, as preaching in the afternoon of the Sabbath day; and duties of crimes, as Reading the Book for Recreations and sports on that Day; and convented, and censured all sorts of persons, (by his sole Jurisdiction) sentencing whom he would to suspension, and excommunication, imposed Orders of Penance with ordinary Fees, and extraordinary Commutations, sometimes at no less than 100 or 200 pound price; besides the additional power of Justiceship of Peace, and the High Commission, whereby the two Archbishops, and as many as in either Province they made choice of, to be Assessors to them on that dreadful Tribunal punished, as they thought meet, with fine and imprisonment, with great fines, and long imprisonment, many times for small faults, and sometimes for none at all; whereby some of them carried their concurrent authority with such cunning, that most were overawed by it, knowing it was great and various, and not knowing, for the most part, when they did act by one power, when by another.  
And can our Anti-presbyterian opposites say that any single Presbyter, any Presbytery Parochial, Classical, or Provincial, assume any such jurisdiction, or power, either over men's persons or estates? Is not suspension from the Sacrament, and Excommunication from the Church the utmost authority they claim? and is this any more than they that both condemn, and contemn the Presbytery, of their own freewill, or self-will do unto themselves?  
It is said by some, that to set up Presbytery in stead of Prelacy is to multiply Clergy masters over the people, and for one Bishop in a Diocese to set up many, in some no fewer than a thousand for one; But they should consider that all the Ecclesiastical authority of a Diocese united in one Bishop, as in an Episcopal Sea, was as the river 
* Cyrus' Gynden late fusum amnem vado transire tentavit: ibt unus ex equis qui trahere regium currum albi solcbant, abreptus, vehementer commovit regem. Juravit itaque amnem illum regiis equis meatum aufereutem, co se redacturum, ut transiri, calcarique etiam a foeminis posset. Huc deinde omnem transtulit belli apparatum, & tamdiu assedit operi, donec centum & octoginta cuniculis divisum alveum in trecentos & sexaginta rivos dispergeret & fiecum relinqueret, in diversum fluentibus aquis. Senec. de ita, lib. 3. cap. 21. pag. 448.  Gyndes very deep, and of a boisterous stream, as when it drowned the white Horse that drew the Chariot of Cyrus, but being divided among so many Ministers, or Presbyters, it is as the same River, when Cyrus enraged at the loss, and meaning to be revenged of it, caused it to be divided into three hundred and sixty channels.  
And yet is not every Presbyter (though a Bishop) as a Prelate in his own Parish, that is, endowed with sole power of censures, for others are to be joined in administration of Government with him, in many places many for one, and in no place under a double number.  
As for the right of Presbytery, whether it be Divine, or humane, I conceive, if the Question were rightly stated, and the officers their power, duty, qualifications? and administrations clearly distinguished, those that are in extremes for their Tenets, whether holding all of it, or none of it to be of Divine right, would be eafily convinced of an error, and a Tenure would be found out, and made good, wherein Christ might have his due to the full, without any diminution of the Magistrates just Authority, or of any liberty which truly might be called Christian.  
For the latter concerning the unlawfulness of Tithes, if his Tenet now be right, his taking of them before was wrong; and the same constitution of conscience, which makes him now to renounce them, may make him at least to doubt whether he be not bound to return what he hath received of the Parishioners of Brasteed in that kind into their hands again, by virtue of that received Rule of 
* Non remittitur peccatum nisi restituatur ablatum. August. Epist. 54. ad Macedon. pag. 280.  Augustine in his Epistle to Macedonius, The sin is not remitted, unless the goods that are wrong fully taken be restored.  
And if he appear before you again, you may do well to put such a case of conscience to his consideration. For my part I am sorry to see him so unsettled in his judgement, so sedulous in his endeavours (under pretence of Evangelicall calmness, and meekness, and moderation of spirit) to prepare a Patronage for all wild and wicked fancies, that every man may believe what he list, and live as he believeth, and so may do what is right in his own eyes, that is, whatsoever is wrong in the eyes of God and of all good men, as if there were no King in Israel, judges 17.6. that is, no Government (for then the Kingly power over that people was not set up.)  
But the cure of this belongs to the care of yourselves, and your Honourable Colleagues, for whom it is our parts, whom God hath placed under your power and protection, uncessantly to supplicate to the throne of Grace, that as you have pulled down the remainders, and removed the rubbish of ruined Babel from among us, so you may in God's good time (and the sooner the better) set up in stead thereof such a fair, and goodly frame of Church-government, from the foundation to the top-stone, as may be entertained with shouting, not of a party only, as at the laying of the foundation of the Temple, Ezra 3.11, 12, 13. but of all sorts both old and young; and to this public devotion (wherein you have your sociable share, as you have a part of the common care and providence for the welfare of three Kingdoms) I shall add my private supplications for your prosperity in particular, and to them my sincere endeavours,  
To be faithfully and affectionately yours in any acceptable service, JOHN LEY.   

The Contents.  

Section 1. OF the Title Independent, in what sense it is disclaimed, in what acknowledged: and of subordination denied by Mr. S. and purity in the Church held necessary by him. p. 1.  
Sect. 2. The Objection of unseasonableness of Master Saltm. his Quere justified, and his gross mistake, or wilful falsification of my words detected p. 4.  
Sect. 3. Rom. 14.23. Whatsoever is not of faith is sin, no bar to the establishment of the Presbyterial government; Master Saltm. his distinction of a State and public conscience and a personal conscience. p. 5.  
Sect. 4. Master Saltm. his unequal dealing in distributing his own and his adversaries work: The Presbytery not like Prelacy in unwarrantableness by the word of God. Of Prudence how fare of lawful use in religious matters. p. 8.  
Sect. 5. Whether Classical, Provincial, and Nationall Presbyteries be like the Independents gathering of Churches. p. 11.  
Sect. 6. It is unreasonable to require an undertaking that the best government in constitution should be faultless in execution; Tyrrany more to be feared in Independency then in Presbytery. p. 13.  
Sect. 7. Of the power of the Presbytery for reformation of manners, compared with Prelacy; the evil effects of Independency; the difference betwixt a Discipline, and the Discipline; Mr. Saltm. his precipitancy in writing, and in divulging what he hath written of Popery in the Covenant, or under the Covenant. p. 15.  
Sect. 8. Tithes not Jewish and Popish, as Mr. Saltm. pretendeth. pag. 19  
Sect. 9 Of Mr. Colemans' observation of the Church of Scotland. pag. 21.  
Sect. 10. A comparison of young men and old for prudence and counsel. Of visions and dreams; where joel 2.28. & Act. 2.17. are vindicated from Mr. Saltm. his mistaking, and misapplication of them. p. 23.  
Sect. 11. Master Saltm. his insufficient answer, and figurative trifling unworthy of an answer. p. 28.  
Sect. 12. A comparison of Presbyterians and Independents in point of strictness, and looseness in admission of members; Of the mixture in the Church of Corinth. p. 29.  
Sect. 13. To whom Christ is an head, and how; of his rod of iron and his golden sceptre; and of his being a Lord, and a servant; gentle, yet terrible. p. 21.  
Sect. 14. The Presbyterial government not unsuitable to the condition of Christ; the prevailing of Independents, and of the sects that meet in Independency much more terrible than the Presbyterial Government can be. p. 33.  
Sect. 15. A pleasant reproof of a misaepplication of Scripture is no offence against the Majesty of the Word; how, and in what cases a taunting speech may be allowed. p. 39  
Sect. 16. Of the Presbyterial and Independent Government how affected; The slow proceeding of the Church Government made no argument for it, nor mentioned to the disparagement of the Parliament; Mr. Saltm. brings the Parliaments Authority under popular liberty; Of wheat in the Independent Congregations. p. 42.  
Sect. 17. The settling of Government falsely suggested to be heretic all with an implicit reproach upon the Parliament. Of the truth of Sleydans' story of the Anabaptists in Germany. A rash censure of Luther, and the Lutherans in Germany for opposing them. A caveat to England to take warning by Germany. The Ministers practise slandered, and the Magistrate dishonoured by Mr. Saltm. p. 47.  
Sect. 18. The Toleration desired by Mr. Saltm. neither safe nor sound, opposite to the mind of Paul, 1 Cor. 1.10. Call 5.10.12. Of the comparison of the two ambitious Brethren to ten more humble and moderate; The Presbytery not proved by Magistrates, though approved by them; Of the pretended truth of Sectaries, and of the prescription of Bishops and Independents. p. 51.  
Sect. 19 Of the pretended modesty and humility of the Independents, by way of comparison with the Presbyterians. p. 54.  
Sect 20. Whether Christ, if he would have a national comprehensive Church, was bound to have begun the practice of it over whole Kingdoms, as Mr. Saltm. saith; and whether importeth more pride, to desire a subordination of Assemblies, Parochial, Classical, etc. or to be adverse to it. p. 57  
Sect. 21. Master Saltm. his mistake touching the building of the Temple. Of the difference of the pattern of the Temple, and the pattern of the Government of the Gospel. Master. Saltm. confusedly jumbleth them together. p. 60.  
Sect. 22 Of staying for the Spirit to give light of instruction to the reformation of the Church. p. 63.  
Sect. 23. Of expedition or delay in setting up of Government; Whether Moses and Christ, the Jewish and Christian State be so contrary, that there is no conformity between them. p. 65.  
Sect. 24 Truth not to be parted with for peace, the Magistrate dishonoured, and the Presbyterians slandered by Mr. Saltm. p 68  
Sect. 25 The Magistrates assistance to the Ecclesiastical Government no argument to prove it no Gospel Government; the sword of God and of Gideon, of Church Discipline and Civil severity, how lawful and useful; zeal against Toleration of evil commended connivance at it . p. 71.  
Sect. 26. Mr. Saltm. his dangerous supposition of equality of number and power, with diversity of Religion; of incorporating of two powers; and what may be expected, should the Sectaries prevail. p. 74.  
Sect. 27. The Authority of the Parliament not pleaded by the Presbyterians as a supplement of Scriptures. as Mr. Saltm. suggesteth, nor slighted by them as by Mr. Saltm. it is; of the pretended danger of the Magistrates engagement with the Ministers; of the pretended tenderness of consciences in Sectaries. p. 77.  
Sect. 28. What a Trumpeter Mr. Saltm. is; his reproach of the Parliament plain enough, though rather implied then expressed; a challenge of him to prove his insinuated suggestions of Treason, Blasphemy, etc. in my Examination of his New Quere. p. 82.  
Sect. 29. The charge of misapplication of Revel. 18.1. justisied against Mr. Saltm his denial. The expectation of new lights which some Sectaries teach, Papistical, fallacious, and dangerous. p. 85.   
The Postscript in answer to Mr. Saltm. his Postscript, consisting of two testimonies of Claudius Salmasius, the one against the form of Baptism In the Name of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost; the other for Independency of Churches, p. 91.   

Errata.  
PAg. 41. lin. 4. from the end, after the word observed, read by many. p. 51. l. 8. for experience r. experiments, p. 84. l. 8. put out the Comma betwixt Philastrius & Brixiensis, p. 87. marg. l. 19 for Thelmes r. The lives and Text l. 8. from the end for prophesy r. prophesied.   

The Contents of the Novello-mastix.  

Section 1. THe Passager his ridiculous descant upon Mr. Leys Name, as if it had some alliance with French or Spanish lees, to which is opposed a Greek Anagram, and Epigram on his Name, made by a learned Divine about an year and half since. p. 3.  
Sect. 2. His confused jumbling of heterogeneal and incongruous metaphors, against reason and common sense, with the number of his Queries. p. 5.  
Sect. 3. An Answer to his first, second, and third Queries, concerning Lieutenant General Cromwell, and Independency. p. 7.  
Sect. 4. The fourth Quere, a senseless complaint of Jedition, and a slanderous imputation of reproach of the Army, answered: The fifth Query of imputation of calumny and flattery of Lieutenant General Cromwell convicted of absurdity, slander, and selfe-contradiction. p. 9  
Sect. 5. The sixth Quere of the imputed breach of privilege of Parliament, in saying that some of them favour the way of Independency, and the like charge of the Assembly answered. p. 11.  
Sect. 6. His seventh Querie, Whether Mr. Ley ought not to be questioned, for meddling with this worthy and authentic Author, because the Clerk of the Honourable House of Commons his Deputy signed his Passages for the Press. p. 14.  
Sect. 7 A clear and full refutation of a slander of his written Copy, (which was not printed) wherein the Writer absurdly suggesteth, that Mr. Leys Book sticketh upon the Printers hand to his loss, the same day when as he saith it was first published. p. 18.  
Sect. 8. Some Anti-queries returned to this querulous Pamphleter by another hand. p. 20.    

To Mr. john Saltmarsh, late Pastor of Brasted in Kent, john Ley wisheth such soundness in judgement, and sincerity in affection, that he may truly, and cordially salute him as a Brother and a friend: And Sheweth in this Epistle his unfitness to undertake the discussion of a Controversy, or to be taken for an Antagonist in any Question of the Doctrine of Religion, or of the Discipline or Government of the Church.  
SIR,  
YOu have taken upon you in the Title page of your last book to make a full Answer to mine, but the fullness you speak of is but the tympany of a promise, for your performance is so empty of real satisfaction to intelligent Readers, that some of them (who have impartially perused our papers on both sides) have seriously advised me not to take such notice of it, as to vouchsafe an Answer unto it; and the rather, because you yourself make such distinction betwixt a refutation and an answer, that, though you expressly profess the one, 
a I will not say I have made here a Refutation of yours, (that is, of your Book) Smoke. p. 51.  you will not say you have made good the other.  
And for mine own part, I will deal clearly with you, and let you know my mind, not only for the present, but for the future; and it is this. For the present,  
I do not take you to be such an adversary as may discourage a man, though but of mean parts, (if not with all of too pusillanimous a spirit) to be your Antagonist; since you lay yourself open to so much disadvantage, as may rather invite him to begin with you, then dishearten him to hold on when you provoke him to proceed.  
But yet (besides the dissuasions of my judicious friends, who think I may right myself as much by a silent neglect of you as by a loud conquest over you) I will give my resolution and my reasons.  
And for hereafter my resolution is not to misimploy precious time, (whereof my many engagements in public service may make me more parsimonious than other men) in a reciprocation of a controversy with you; and my reasons are these.  
First, because I see your genius is rather Rhetorical, or Poëticall, then polemical; and will not keep close to a question to bring it to an issue; and so you scatter your conceptions like drops of quicksilver out of the quill; or like beads broke lose from the string, so that it is matter of difficulty, and sometimes rather of impossibility, to gather them into an argument, since they have more in them of the complexion and trappings of phraseology, then of the constitution of sound Divinity; which makes me (besides that I had rather contend with an Antichristian Adversary then with a Christian Brother) more willing to take the confutation of the most learned part of Bellarmine for my task, then to wait upon your wand'ring and new sprung notions, though now and then you present your Reader with a Primrose of pretty expression to make him to mistake the sent of a weed for a flower, of an old error under the name and notion of a new truth.  
Secondly, 
b For your Logical marshalling, etc. Smoke p. 16.  you profess yourself to have no good liking of Logic, forms of art, and methods of reason; and 
c Pag. 60.  renounce prudence and consequences as the great engines of will-worship; and if you be of that mind you are fit to write Poems, or Essays, or Characters, then to maintain a Dispute in matter of Religion.  
Thirdly, I conceive you are the less fit for that purpose because you seem to me by that I have read in your writings to be a kind of Ubiquitary in belief, or (if I may not call it belief, being so uncertain as you are) I must say you ramble about in your speculation of opinions, but (as resolved upon none of them) settle not where; so that your Adversary knows not where to find you. One while me thinks you are a Presbyterian, because you dedicate a Book to those that for the most part are such, as to a most sacred and reverend Assembly; another while you 
d Smoke in the Temple. p. 65. 68  reproach the Presbytery, and gloriously set forth the Church way of Independents, and 
e In your Epistle to me, pab. the beginning.  bring in yourself as one of them: sometimes I take you for an Anabaptist, at least for an Antipaedo baptist, for in your exceptions against Presryterie (and I must take your Tenet to be rather against, then among the Presbyterial positions) you 
f Smoke in the Temple. p. 9  say, That Baptism is not to be received by generation now, as Circumcision was, but by regeneration, or visible profession as at first; nor are the carnal seed now any more the children of Abraham, but the faithful, and that no Ordinance is now to be administered upon legal consequences, but on Gospel precepts: and of Master Tombs his book (in answer to my objection concerning the delay of Baptism by Christ's example) you say thus, 
g Ibid. in your answer to me. p. 37.  I cannot dispute that here now, Master Tombs will sat is fie you at large in his learned Examen, where he hath made work for an whole Assembly; wherein (to give you a word by the way) you are much mistaken, both in the man, and in the matter; and you will see cause (within a while) to conceive otherwise of both, then now you do; and that there lieth no obligation either of necessity or of conveniency upon the Assembly which may engage them to the examination of his Examen. Nor is Master T. with his most complete armour so formidable a champion, as that there should need an army of Divines to be mustered against him, there be divers David's who are ready for single encounter with that braving Goliath, and some have given his cause such a wound already, as (though he may play the Mountebank with it and skin it over) will never be cured at the bottom.  
But this only obiter, passing by him, and his book, (as a parenthesis or parergon to that which is before me at the present) I must follow you a little further, and see whether (tracing the steps of your opinions by the print of your pen) I can overtake you, and at last find you in any place, or posture of consistence, or settlement.  
In your Discovery of Independency you deliver downright Anabaptism in many particulars, (without any word of exception or caution to your Reader) as that 
h Smoke p. 10, 11.   

h Smoke p. 10, 11.  Those who were baptised under Prelacy were baptised by an Antichristian power, and that they are no right baptised members of Churches.  
That all consequences drawn from circumcision, are of no more force, then from the Cloud, and the Sea, and the Rock, and Noah's Ark, and other typical and figurative places in the Word, (yet by your leave from some of these there may be a good consequence to baptism of infants) nor can any legal, or probable Scriptures make any law or rule for any such Gospel administration, which is not directly in Scripture words to be found.  
That children's Baptism in the Church is a way never to have a Church of such baptised believers, as in the Apostles times.  
That Baptism, being a visible sign, cannot rationally be administered upon one that can neither see, nor discern what is done, to whom the water can be no sign, but they are only told of it when they come to age. Baptism is as a flash of lightning, (as was well observed by one) Circumcision was as a fixed star, so much difference in these two rites.  
Institution of Baptism is to duty as well as grace, which children cannot perform, and so answer the sign.  
Institution of Baptism is doctrinal in the very act of it, as is acknowledged by all of the present Baptism, Matth. 28. now this implies a capable and teachable subject. You have other positions symbolising with the sect of Anabaptists, but I note only those, which have nearest congruity to the title of that Sect.  
While such opinions as these, which you seem rather to confirm then to confute, incline me to take you for an Anabaptist, I am induced to doubt whether you be not somewhat else, somewhat worse, by such exceptions as 
i Smoke in the Temple. p. 13, 14, 15.  these.  
First, That Matth. 28.18. (it should be vers. 19) and Mark 16, etc. are rather, and fare more probably to be expounded of the Spirits Baptism, then of Baptism by water.  
Secondly, That the Baptism of jesus Christ by water, was only in the Name of jesus Christ.  
Thirdly. That the form by which they Baptise (viz. ●●aptize thee in the Name of the Father, Son, and holy Ghost,) is a form of man's devising, a tradition of man, a mere consequence drawn from supposition, and probability, and not a form left by Christ.  
Fourthly, That to preach in the Name of jesus Christ, or to do any thing in the name of jesus Christ, is not always in that gross manner (as it is taken) viz. naming jesus Christ, or the naming of the Father, Son, and holy Ghost over them, but in the power, virtue, efficacy, Ministry of jesus Christ, or the Persons of the Godhead, the Father, Son, and holy Ghost.  
Fifthly, 
k Pag. 17.  That none ought to give Baptism now, because none can give the gift of the holy Ghost.  
Sixthly, 
l Pag. 18.  That the fullness of time is not yet come for ordinances, for as there were several seasons for giving out of truth before, so now.  
The next Title (under which you sort the opinions of these times into several professions) is of seeking and seekers, and there, (besides other new Doctrines which you deliver) you say that 
m Pag. 17.  all shall in the last times be in a secret, invisible inward and spiritual glory, no more in gross, carnal, visible evidences, & material beams of gifts, & miracles, & this is to know Christ no more after the flesh; which cannot be the meaning of the Apostles words, 2 Cor. 5.16. (for gifts and miracles continued after the time that he wrote those words) but either that he did not conceive of Christ as of a temporal King, as the Disciples sometimes did, Luk. 24.21. Act. 1.6. and our Saviour himself denied, Joh. 18.36. or that his affections to Christ were not such as theirs that had conversed with him in the flesh, and had been taken only, or chief with the comeltnesse of his person, or had the sensible evidence of his miracles, or had a carnal conviction of his resurrection, as Thomas Didymus had, Joh. 20.27. but that he did spiritually participate and communicate with him, deriving life and virtue from him, as the members from the head, as where he saith, I live, yet not I, but Christ liveth in me, and the life which I now live, I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me, Gal. 2.20.  
Another position (which you give out among the exceptions to the way of Seekers, which to orthodox Divines is a mere paradox) is, 
n Pag. 18.  that there is no such power for ordinances as is pretended, but believers as disciples may administer, and so did the Apostles and believers formerly as they were disciples.  
I looked to have. found the Antinomian Tenets among the rest which you report, but your silence concerning them in a place whereto their discovery was so seasonable and pertinent, is thought by some, who have read over your book of Free Grace before I saw it, that you thought too honourably of that Sect to bring it in there, where you intended to set 
o Pag. 19  the strength and weakness of each opinion before itself, that as on the one side it may glory, so on the other side it may fear and be humble; and that book shows you plainly to be an Antinomian, though you pretend to maintain your Tenets by the consent and testimony of many sound Divines, pag. 204. etc. wherein they say you deal by them, as other Antinomians have formerly dealt with Luther, bringing their words against their minds as they did his; and I the rather believe it, because making trial of the sincerity of your allegations, in that Book by the quotation which came next to my hands, viz. that which you cite out of Mr. Samuel Boltons' Book of the bounds of Christian Freedom; I find you allege his 
p Pag. 213. of your Book of Freegrace, and the flow of Christ's blood.  words with a guileful reservation, breaking them off with a subtle, etc. whereas if you had gone on to those that follow next, you would have showed the Reader a flat contradiction to the Cardinal Tenet of the Antinomians, (which gives them their name) in these words, 
q Pag. 74. of Mr. Boltons' book.  acknowledge the moral Law as a rule of obedience, and Christian walking, and there will be no falling out, whether you take it as promulgated by Moses, or handed to you & renewed by Christ; is not this such a piece of sophistry in proof as a 
r Quirinus Cnoglerue in a little book in 12. (but spider-like full of poison) called Symbol. in Symbol. Calvinian.  malicious Papist used against Calvin, when he brought him in, saying, I would the names of the Trinity, Person, homoousios, etc. were buried, but left out these words; So that the truth of those Articles of the Christian Creed were received and embraced by all; we say the Papist in this corrupt and maimed allegation followed the devil in his quotation of the 91 Psalm against our Saviour, Matth. 4.6. where he bringeth in a Text of divine Providence, He shall give his Angels charge over thee, and in their hands they shall bear thee up, left at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone, vers. 11, 12. but leaveth out the limitation, they shall keep thee in all thy ways.  
In this example I have done you a favour to compare you to a Papist, and the Papist justice in matching him with the devil, whose proper sin (as a devil) is 
s 2 Tim. 2.  slander.  
And I would take you for an Antinomian (as many do) but that in the same book whence they have learned to suspect you for one of that Sect, I find somewhat which shows you are not settled in their way, and it is your equal and indifferent dealing in part betwixt the Antinomians and their opposites in these words; 
t Occasional word prefixed before the flow of Christ's blood. pag. 1, 2.  Some hearing the Doctrine of Freegrace, think presently there will follow nothing but looseness, and libertinism, and others hearing of holiness of duties and obedience, think there will follow nothing but legalnesse, bondage, and self-righteousness; upon these jealousies one suspecting the others doctrine, bends against another in expressions something too uncomely for both; and there are some unwarrantable notions to be found on all sides: and yet after a little impartial equipoyse betwixt both parties, and their opinions, you sway all that followeth so for Freegrace, as to cast disgrace upon the Law; for you say, 
u Ibid. pag. 56.  If Christ had been more in the Divinity of these times, in their preach for Reformation, and Moses less, we had had not only more of his grace, but more of his glory than we see.  
Whereas indeed by filling out of this new wine too freely, (to use your 
x Ibid. pag. 9  phrase) many have played the lose and wicked wantoness, and have sinned the more that grace might abound, Rom. 6.1. because they thought themselves not bound to the Law as to a rule of life.  
All this while having endeavoured to discover of what Religion you are, I cannot yet find that you have made choice of any.  
You would have me take it for a part of your praise that you 
y Smoke in the Temple p. 11. of your answer to me as it is in the second edition.  were not hasty to believe; but is there not a faulty slowness of faith, which our Saviour reproveth in some, calling them 
y Smoke in the Temple p. 11. of your answer to me as it is in the second edition.  fools for not being forward enough to believe, Luk. 24.25. but you take it perhaps for a point of prudence, to keep yourself unengaged until you see what variety the 
z Smoke pag. 7. and of your Answer to me, pag. 47. 63.  toleration you stand for (if it be obtained, as I hope it never will be) will bring forth; and you tell us that yet 
a Smoke, pag. 3. §. 11.  we are but in our come out of Babylon, and the fall of Babylon not yet, the smoke yet in the Temple, the Angels but yet pouring out their vials, the Angels that enlighten the earth not yet flying through the heavens: and yet towards the later end of your 
b Pag. 66.  book you say, Now the spiritual dispensation being come, even the Gospel of Jesus Christ, there is a fullness of spirit let out upon the Saints and people of God, which gathers them up more closely, spiritually, and cordially then the power of any former dispensations could do.  
In the prosecution of this third reason of my refusal to take you for an Antagonist hereafter, if I have been too copious, it is because you have been too various and diffusive in your fancies for matters of religion, so that I sincerely profess I know not where to find any certain fixing of your faith, nor in what predicament of profession to place you, whether directly or reductively. And I think it my part rather to pray for you that God would establish you in his truth, then to trace you through the multiplicity of opinions dispersed in your papers, especially when they are not more untrue in themselves, then uncertain to your Reader whether they be yours or no.  
Fourthly, If I could tell of what mind you are now, I should have little encouragement to set upon the confutation of your present errors; because you are a man so unstable, that I may probably suspect a prevention of my pains, or disappointment of my purpose, viz. your conviction therein, by your voluntary departure from your precedent opinions, (before it could reach you) upon a pretence of new light, and further enlargement of Gospel-grace. That this is no slander of you, nor sinister surmise, will appear by your Smoke in the Temple, for having alleged some passages of your Book of Policy against your opinion professed in your New Quere, you answer me thus; 
d Smoke in the Temple, p. 13.  For some things in my Book of Policy I look on them as a part of the darkness I was in, and I can freely join with any in censuring my unregenerate part in me, as I esteem much of my carnal reason to be.  
And upon another quotation of mine out of the same Book, you reply again, 
e Ibid. pag. 45.  I told you before I dare not allow myself the privilege of an Aphorism of light then, when it was rather night than day with me; and a third time urging you with your own words out of the same book, you answer me again; 
f Ibid. pag. 59  I told you my Politics were written by my dimmer light; and yet let me tell you Sir (and I believe all judicious Readers of your Dictates will be of my mind) that book was the best that ever you wrote, and therefore the best because freest from error, and freest from error, because it setteth down the practice of Policy in a Christian life, taught from the Scriptures, as you express it in your Title Page, and consisteth of aphorisms, grounded upon a Text of God's word, for the most part pertinently and truly applied.  
A fifth Reason why I shall but this once, not hereafter take you to task in a word war, is this; I perceive you glory in the quick dispatch of your work, that is, to mine understanding, in bestowing little study and taking little pains for what you publish, or, (as the Proverb hath it) in making more haste then good speed. For in your Letter to me you say thus; 
g Smoke, p. 2.  You see my labours, deducting the time of their printing, are of about two week's growth, younger by some six weeks if I mistake not then yours; where you mean not I suppose that I was six weeks in answering a sheet of paper of yours, and that you answered fifteen sheets of mine in two weeks; for you know not what private time I took for it out of public employment; but comparing the publication of my book from the Press about the tenth of December, and of yours about the sixteenth of january following, the computation you make in that respect is not much mistaken: But why Sir should you confine yourself to two week's time, when it was in your power to have allowed yourself more? and it should have been a part of your prudence not to have tucked yourself up to so little, especially if you conceive, (as you say in your Letter to me,) I have much advantage of learning and experience; Sure if you thought so indeed, you would be more wise then to give me so much advantage by your overhasty, and unconcocted effusions, as you have done; Nor is this the first time of your precipitation and boasting in this kind, for in the year 1643. you set forth an Examination of Mr. Fuller's Fast Sermon, (preached at the Savoy, july 26. and afterward printed), and you dedicated your Book to those Divines (under the Title of The most Sacred and Reverend Assembly for Reformation of the Church convened by Parliament) whom now you mention with a meiosis of estimation, as if all of them together were but a company of such despicable dwarves, that Mr. T. the confident Antipaedobaptist might defy them, as Goliath did all the army of Israel; and in the first lines of your Epistle Dedicatory to them, you say you have but the thoughts of an afternoon to spread before them, and that you examined in the same pace you read. Now truly Sir, if this be true, I cannot commend your discretion in such expedition; I know you will not plead for your warrant the words of our Saviour to Judas, Joh. 13.27.  
You pretend as the motive to such hasty motion, that your intent was, if it were possible, truth might overtake an error before it went too fare, and you hope for pardon if your zeal to the truth made you see another's faults sooner than your own; but you should have considered, that your adversary was a man of eminent parts, much more advised in what he published in the Pulpit, and by the Press, than yourself; and that following him in such posthaste, before you had well weighed what you wrote against him, it was not like to fall out, that (at long running) truth should overtake error, but rather that many errors on your part should overtake some errors on his; and that the zeal which made you see another's faults sooner than your own was too like that of the hypocrite, Mat. 7. vers. 3, 4, 5. and not to be thought more capable of pardon then of reproof; for the truth had no stead of, nor was it like to have any aid by such an extemporary undertaking of a cause of so great moment as the reformation of the Church.  
And if your Adversary had been so contemptible (as he was not) that nothing could be too slight for him which came from you, the Assembly of Divines, to whom you dedicated your printed paper, should have been more venerable with you, then that you durst offer such sudden conceptions to their perusal and acceptance by way of dedication, unless you conceived that their aspect and protection could help and heal what was weak and sick in your overhasty birth; and I confess you seem (but whether I should take it for Poetry or flattery, I cannot tell) to attribute so much unto them, in your Epistle; where you say, That airing your assertions under their Patronages will heal them; for so they brought forth the sick into the streets, that at least the shadow of Peter might touch some of them. But this perhaps you will say was written by your dimmer light, when it was rather night than day with you, (as before I have noted) and I believe it was, for your whether imaginary or adulatory ellusion is a strain of elevation of them, both above their merit, and acknowledgement.  
But that which at the present I must press a little further upon you, is the coercion of your Pen, that you put it not upon such speed as if it were yet as a quill in the wing. I suppose being a Poet you have read, and not forgot that of Horace concerning Lucilius, 
a— In h●ra s●pe due●●tor  magnum versut dictabat stans pede in une. Cum flueret lutulent●● 〈◊〉 qu●d collere velles. Her. Serm. l. 1. p. 212,  pouring out two hundred verses in an hour and standing on one foot; in which though somewhat were worth noting, yet his stream run muddily. And he commends those verses most which have been made with 
b— in versu facieudo Saepe caput scaberet, vivos & roderet ungues. Hor. Ibid. p. 237.  often scratching of the head and biting of the nails to the quick; and discommends such as have not taken up 
c— carmen reprehendite quod non Multa dies, & multa litura cocrcuit, atque Perfectum decies non castigavit ad unguem. Hor. de Art Poet. p. 369.  many days, nor come under many blots, even to a tenfold correction; this in respect of number, and for time he would have 
d— si quid tamen olim Scripseris, in Metii descendat judicis aures, Et patris, & nostras, nonumque prematur in annum. Hor. Ibid. p. 373. 374.  many dictates kept under the file even to the ninth year, which Quintilian the famous Rhetorician (whom 
e Hic sere omnes Latinos scriptores repreheudit, uni Quintiliano assurrexit. Bucolzer Index Chronol. ad an. 1465. p. 420.  Laurentius Valla who carped at almost all Latin Writers, did singularly reverence) did so much approve of, that he kept his books in his private study long; that (as he gives the reason for it) 
* Vsus Horatii consilio qui in Arte Poetica suadet ne praecipitetur editio nonumque prematur in annum, dabo iis otium ut refrigerato inventionis amore diligentius repetitos tanquam Lector perpenderem. Sic Quintil. in Epist. Tryphoni Bibliopola. praefix, Instit. Orat.  the affection which naturally men bear to their own invention may be cooled, and that a man may come to review of his own writings with the indifferency of an ordinary Reader.  
It may be for the dispatch you make, and make your boast of, you expect the praise of pregnancy of wit, as 
f Thebis hebetes & brutos nasci relatum est, Athenis scribendi dicendique acutissimos, ubi penes colitam pueri mense citius eloquuntur praecoce lingua. Tertul. deanima. Tom. 2. Edit. Rhenan. p. 331.  Tertullian commends some Athenian children for their forwardness to speak at a month old, and as 
g Septennes pueri concionantur in ordine Francisci. Phil. Bosq. quarta Naufrag. Tabula. in ord. in Dominic. pt. Pentecost. p. 241.  Philip Bosquier doth his Franciscan Brenthrens of whom he saith, That boys at seven years of age preach in the Order of Francis, or (which is commendation enough for any man's belief) as 
h Sixt. Senens. Biblioth. Sanct. l. 4. p. 220. col. 2.  Sixtus Senensis reporteth to the praise of Co●nelius , that at twelve years old he was an eloquent Preacher. And for those rude times that might deserve praise which in this knowing and learned Age may need pardon, especially if without need any man will obtrude that upon a rational Reader which hath more affinity with the nimbleness of conceit, then with the solidity of judgement; and how soever sudden sparks and flashes of fancy may take with the vulgar, they will not hold reputation with the wise, but rather stir up indignation and disdain. And if I should say that your Answer to me hath had no better acceptance with some very judicious and godly Divines, I am able to prove it, how fond soever yourself, or your seduced followers conceive of your papers. I deny not but sometimes a man may be unexpectedly put upon it, to do that extempore, which he would not willingly undertake but upon deliberation; and I have been necessitated on the sudden to preach even in the University, and in other places some of my Dictates have been divulged with more dispatch than I wished; yet I was always of the mind of David (and know no cause to be a changeling in it) who would not offer unto God of that which cost him nought, 2 Sam. 24. nor would I so fare undervalue the judgement of men, especially in this learned age, as to offer any thing to their perusal, which had not come under a threefold censure on this side the Printing House; the first of mine own serious and rigorous revisal; the second of some middle capacity, that I may know whether it be obscure or no to an ordinary Reader; the third of some judicious Critic, that I might not justly come under the rod of an accurate Reader.  
And in the choice of Books I would be glad to know not only the Author, who makes them, but what time and study hath been employed upon them; and if they have taken up ten years' time, as did Perer. his 
i His first Tome was set forth an. 1589. and his last an. 1598.  Comment. upon Genesis: or 
k Adric. Delft. Prasat. in Theatr. Terrae ● Sanct. p. 3.  Thirty years, as Theatrum Terrae Sanctae made by Adrichomius Delphus as he professeth in the Preface of his Book: or 
l Emau. Sa. Aphorism. praefat. Lectori. p. 2.  forty years or thereabouts, which Eman. Sa. spent upon his Aphorisms, I like them so much the better (caeteris paribus) as they were done with more advice, study, and premeditation.  
I will conclude this reason with a domestical story which may be pertinnently applied to our case; A noble man had a controversy in law with a Brewer, who had a garden and dwelling house bordering near upon his, the Brewer gave a charge to his servant to put in so many hogsheads of water more into all his brewings then he had wont to dye, telling him that such a supply would bear the charge of his suit with his Adversary; which being overheard by the Nobleman, he sent presently to the Brewer, resolving he would not go any longer to law with him, who upon such easy and cheap terms could manage his part of the suit; I will make bold to apply it (upon confidence that you will do ●s you say, 
* Smoke in the Temple in answer to me. p. 13.  for interpreting any thing from me on the better side of it,) while you suffer your fancy to fly abroad so fast, and have such a fluid inkpot as ready at hand as the Thames to the Brewer, in such a cause to write in a fortnight more than an abler man than yourself would undertake to do in a month, I shall not think it fit to draw out this dissension betwixt us to any further length, nor have I leisure, or if I had, for the for●●● reason's I should have no list to wiredraw a debate or Controversy of this kind with you, or any one else who makes no more of the matter than you do.  
Sixthly, It is needless for me to be engaged any further in this quarrel; since,  
First, I am assured by very convincing evidence that your interposition for delay in setting up the Church Government (which at first I feared would prove a Remora unto it) is not like to give any impediment to the expedition desired.  
Secondly, Others, who think I might be better employed in more public service, me willign to take me off this controversy, and to undertake you themselves, as occasion shall require.  
Now Sr. having done with you as an Adversary, I would close with you upon kind and Christian terms, if I knew under what notion to take my leave of you, with your good liking; and I am doubtful what relation to make use of, since you say, 
a In your Design of Reconcil. p. 5. nu. 17.  We may be in one Christ though divers, and we may be friends though not Brethren,. If we be in one Christ I should rather say we are Brethren, though not friends; but if we be friends and in Christ, we must needs be Brethren, sons of the same Father, and heirs of the same hope, and inheritance in heaven; although not knowing, or suspecting each others interest, we may be more unfriendly among ourselves than we should be: And though you be less a Brother than you have been, for (as I hear) you acknowleldged before the Honourable Committee of Examinations that you have renounced your Ordination, the ground of your Ministerial Brotherhood in the Church of England, yet since you are pleased to call me both 
b So in the inscription of your Letter.  Friend and 
c In your Smoke p. 26.  Brother; I shall (with much hearty sorrow to see your good parts so ill employed, as they are, on the wrong side, and my fervent prayers to the Father of lights to give you light for smoke, to guide you into the way of Truth and Peace, and to settle you in it) sincerely subscribe myself  
Yours in the affections and offices of a friend and Brother JOHN LEY.   

LIGHT FOR SMOKE: OR, A Clear and distinct Reply to a dark and confused Answer of Mr. john Saltmarsh, etc.  

SECT. I. Of the Title Independent, in what sense it is disclaimed, in what acknoweldged; and of subordination idenied by Mr. S. and purity in the Church held necessary by him.  
Smoke. Pag. 
a In the former edition the answer to me beginneth a new order of figures, so this quotation is p. 2. but in the second edition it is p. 12.  12.  
FOr the notion of Independency you speak of, I dare not own it, because I account myself both under a spiritual and civil supremacy, under Jesus Christ and the Magistrate severally, and exempt from neither.  
Light. Your pretended dependency on the Magistracy will not exempt you from the name or notion of Independency, (a title diversely entertained by the Anti-Presbyteriall party, while some own and honour it, some disclaim and abhor it, 
b Mien Exam. of the New Quere. p. 2.  as I have formerly showed) for you give the Magistrate so little power in matter of Religion, that 
c Smoke. p. 62. 63.  you would have all left to a liberty of conscience science therein; cnceiving that, as 
d M. SAltm. Epistle to the Believers of several opinions. p. 1.  though the ways be divers to the City of London, some travelling from the North, some from the South, some from the East, and some from the West, yet all come thither, though there may be some mistaking of the way in each, so is the gathering of the Saints into heaven. Which if you mean of so many several Sects of believers as in this Book, and some other of your Pamphlets you plead for, you mean it of some who are as fare out of the way to heaven, as if a man at Lichfield should travel not Soth-ward but Northward to go to London, or as if at Berwick he should travel not Northward but  to come to Edinburgh.  
Smoke. Pag. 12. We dare not be Classical, Provincial, Nationall, these are no forms of wholesome words, to which we are commended, nor know we any such power, but that of Brethren, Ministry, and Fellowship; and if you call the Churches of Christ Independent for this, we must suffer till the Lord bring forth our righteousness as the noonday.  
Light. The gradual subordination of Assemblies against the Independency of congregational meetings is made good by the large and learned Book of Mr. Samuel Rutherford, so that it is needless to take up their defence in this place, at least with you, who (as I have observed your genius) are not fit to be taken for an Antagonist in any polemical point.  
And for that you say, they are no forms of wholesome words, it is no more than the Arians said of the words Trinitas, Essentia, Hemoeusios, & Persona, because they found them not in the Scripture; And if you were not swayed by a spirit of Libertinism, you would think them very wholesome words, as signifying sovereign remedies against the ruptures of Schism, and uleers or gangrenes of Heresy.  
Smoke. Pag. 12. Nor know we any such power, but that of Brethren, Ministers and Fellowship.  
Light. Do you not know Sr. that that which is Ministry and service in respect of God, may be rulel and authority in respect of men? are there not Officers in the Church called Elders? and are not those Elders Rulers? and those Elders and Rulers Fathers? and is there not a spiritual fatherhood and begetting through the Gospel? 1 Cor. 4.15. and must not these by the fifth Commandment be honoured and obeyed under that Title above the relation of Brotherhood, and Fellowship? and are there not children in the Church as well as Fathers? and may not the father, as the child gives him cause, use both the rod and the spirit of meekness? if not, surely the Apostle would not have put this Question to the Corinthians, Shall I come unto you with a rod, or in love, and in the spirit of meekness? vers. 21. of the same Chapter.  
Smoke. Pag. 12. And if you call the Churches of Christ Independent for this, we must suffer until the Lord bring forth our righteousness as the noonday.  
Light. If I were worthy to give a Name to the Churches of Christ, I would call them Dependent, for the most of them are subordinate to Classical, Provincial and Nationall Assemblies; not Independent, as the fewest are, and of those few some of them are so unsound in doctrine that they deserve not the title of Churches to be put upon them; and if you profess yourself Independent in that sense you have acknowledged, and for that be so called, I pray you Sr. what suffering do you complain of? is it any suffering to you to be called by your Name Mr. Saltmarsh, which you own? and foro the bringing forth of your righteousness as the noon day; I must tell you Sr. your dawnings of light are come to this noon day's discovery, that all may see, (but those whose eyes are darkened with your Smoke) that the unrighteousness of those Sectaries, whom you embrace as Independent Brethren, in broken forth as the smoke of the bottomless pit, Revel. 9.2. with great danger to corrupt the air into an Epidemical contagion.   

SECT. II. The Objection of unseasonableness of Mr. Saltm. his Quare justified, and his gross mistake or wilful falsification of my words detected.  
Smoke. Pag. 14. What better season could I come in then such a one wherein things were but moving and ripening towards establishment? where no thing is settled, there nothing can be disturbed— And whereas you say the Parliaments determinations were final, that holds better for me who might have spoken to much less purpose had I stayed till and had been done, and the determinations ended and become final; sure it was a time then to speak or never; and by your own account too, for you are pleased to reckon up the proceed of the State in the business of Religion, which are such as had I stayed I had had a worse season.  
Light. In the Title page of my Examination I said your Quaere was unseasoanble, and gave reasons thereof, pag. 4, 5. and among others I reckoned up four particulars of the subordination, and exercise of the Presbyterial Discipline, set out already by Authority of Parliament, in respect whereof your Quere and determination upon it came too late; and it might have been more seasonable either while the matters were in debate of the Assembly of Divines, or when first the votes of the Assembly were presented to the Parliament; but when both Parliament and Assembly, after much debate, were so fare, and so publicly engaged for the Presbyterial Government, it was too late for such a novice as you by so poor and trifling a paper as you put forth to offer to oppose it; which was not like (being of so little worth) to be of any great weight with the Parliament, (though some Independents who will have all their Geese to be Swans, said of it, it was a very rational piece, whose fond opinion of it advanced it to the reputation to be thought worthy of a refutation) all the mischief it was like to do (for no good could reasonably be looked for from it) was to interpose betwixt the command of the Magistrate, and the obedience of the people, and to prepare such as are silly and perverse to a prejudice, and to make them refractory against reformation intended; and this is one part of the Independents good service they do to the civil Authority.  
Smoke. Pag. 15. For baiting my Quere with truth and peace, you allude to Christ's allegory that we are fishers of men, and if I have no worse things to bait with then these two, truth and peace, none need I hope to be afraid of the hook.  
Light. In the second Section of my Book having set down the Title of your lose sheet, A new Quere, etc. I say thus; He knew well enough the humour of listening after news prevaileth with our people of all sorts, and therefore being to fish in troubled waters he putteth upon his hook that bait at which it was like many would be nibbling. Where it is plain as may be, my meaning was that your bait was Novelty, not Truth and Peace, where with I begin a new sentence, and speak distinctly of them afterwards, and therefore I may well come upon you with your own Quere, (misapplied to me) Why deal you not more candidly? 
Smoke. p. 16.  why are you not more faithful in your interpretation to the Original?   

SECT. III. Rom. 14.23. Whatsoever is not of faith is sin, no bar to the establishment of the Prosbyteriall Government; Mr. Saltm. his distinction of a State and public conscience and a personal conscience.  
Smoke. Pag. 17. SInce you will help me to prove you are welcome, you have furnished me with one Argument more, you are a fair enemy to l●nd out your own weapon; and n●w you have made your Argument half for me I shall make the other half myself. What the Imposers of Government cannot do in faith they sin, this is your half Argument, but you take it for granted our Imposers of Government are not such, but such as are fully persuaded, and can set up the Government in faith.  
Light. 
f Pag. 9 of mine Exam.  I shown you should frame your Argument, according to the scope of your Quere, rather against the establishment of a government by the Magistrate, then against submission to a government by the people; and you seem to take this as a courtesy from me, but you ill deserve it, for you repeat it so imperfectly as to obscure the light of it, and to impair the strength of it; for you bring it in thus: What the Imposers of Government cannot do of faith they sin; whereas in my Book, out of which you should fairly, and faithfully have transcribed, the argument hath it more dearcly and fully in these words: Those that set up a Government whereof they are not fully persuaded in their mind, and which they cannot do in faith, do sin. To this major you add a minor and conclusion, as followeth.  
Smoke. Pag. 18. But the Parliament cannot be fully persuaded of this government, therefore if they set it up they sin; and they cannot be fully persuaded, because the State or public conscience cannot consent at this time; and the State conscience cannot consent, because it hath no Scripture to secure it; for how can the Parliament be said to be fully persuaded, etc. unless they could fully sign it with a jus divinum, or divine right? nothing but Scripture and the Word can properly fully persuade.  
Light. Those that set up a Government, etc. This you call my Argument, but it is yours; for I deny your minor proposition, and consequently your conclusion, wherein you impute sin unto the Parliament, if they set up Presbyterial Government. And you tell us of a State or public conscience, and of that you say in the last page of your book, it is with a public or State conscience as it is with a personal and particular conscience, what is done must be done in faith, or else there is weakness, doubting, and sin; now where there is not a full consent, and persuasion from the Word of faith, there cannot be faith properly— if the laws of truth were founded, as the laws of civil States, in a mere legislative power, than Popery hath had as good assurance as any, they have had most voices, most councols. I wonder Sr. how you that so contract the Church into a particular Congregation, and who will not endure to hear of a Church of such a latitude, as to be called Nationall, can allow of such a large conscience as a State and public conscience: and you reduce it to the same rule that you do a personal, and a particular conscience, and of both you say, they cannot have a full consent and persuasion but from the word of faith; and do you mean thereby, that whatsoever the State alloweth must have a particular warrant from the word of God? and that the civil Sanction must be set on nothing but that which hath the stamp of a Jus Divinum upon it? if so, you so much pinion the civil power, as to make it of little use for Government, either of Church or State.  
Although again you be as much too lose (as here you are too nice) in that to the Magistrate you give liberty to different Religions, all pretending to the word of God, though in many points repugnant one to another.  
For that of the Apostle, whatsoever is not of faith is sin, Rom. 14.23. it imports (as some expound it) that all the works of Infidels are sins, that it belongeth also to believers, and boundeth them so in their Christian practice, that they must do nothing against conscience, nothing with a doubting conscience, nothing at all which hath not warrant from the Word either in general principles, or particular conclusions; and it serves likewise to shut out mere humane inventions from the worship of God, and the luxuriant fruitfulness of humane fancy, against which the Ancient and Orthodox 
a Tert. depraescript. advers. haeret. Hilar. in Psal. 132. Hieron. contra Helvid. Aug. contra. Petil. l. 3. c. 6.  Doctors have given many cautions, which Protestant Writers pertinently bring in against Popish Traditions, and additions thereto. But makes nothing either against the States establishing of the Presbyterial Government, nor against the people's yielding to it for want of faith, since for a great part of it, it is grounded on the Word of God, and is in no part of it repugnant to it.   

SECT. FOUR Mr. Saltm. his unequal dealing in distributing his own and his adversaries work: The Presbytery not like Prelacy in unwarrantableness by the word of God. Of Prudence how for of lawful use in Religious matters.  
Smoke. Pag. 20. NOw you are to prove more than perhaps you thought on, that is, to clear a Church Covenant, which many of your way are against, for though you condemn it in some Churches, yet a Nationall Church-Covenant you plead for.  
Light. By what law would you put me to clear a Church-covenant? it is no part of my work in the task I undertook, and if you may decline discussing the imposition of Protestations (as you do in the next precedent paragraph) though mentioned by me as a proof against you, and as you do the objection made from the deferring of our Saviour's Baptism till he was about thirty years of age, 
h Smoke. p. 37.  as you do likewise in the further prosecution of your Reply, why should you take upon you to appoint me an impertinent work, and which is more, that which is repugnant to my judgement? for you say it is to clear a Church-covenant, which is rather your office than mine, who think it fit to be accused then cleared.  
Smoke. Pag. 20, 21. You grant that the Government is but in some parts warrantable by the word of God, so was Episcopacy and Prelacy in some parts of it, there is not any false worship or way but it hath some parts of truth in it, the great image had a head of gold, etc. truth must be all one and the same, and homogencall, not in parts.  
Light. You allow yourself too much liberty in changing my words, which have their weight and pertinency, from whence if you vary, you mar the matter; I said not the Government is but in some parts warrantable by the word of God, but in the chief parts, which you will not say of Prelacy, for that consisteth in being chief, in assuming a Lordly preeminence over their brethren of the Ministry; but the chief parts of the Presbyterial Government have their warrant in the word, and why not the rest? Besides, it is not enough to have some parts, or the chief parts of government warrantable by the word of God, but it must be in no part contrary to the word of God; and so we may say of Presbytery, not so of Prelacy. You say truth must be all one and the same, homogencall in all parts, that is, if you speak to the point, all truth must be only Scripture truth; but hath not the light of nature taught the heathens many truths who never saw the Scripture? and is any government reduced to practice without some prudential supplies, in divers particulars wherein the Scripture is silent? as for the Elders in a Congregation, how many they should be, whether perpetual or annual, and what their qualifications should be for the measure of knowledge, and other abilities, and whether they should be maintained at the charge of the Church, and there are many Queries concerning the particulars of the Deacons office, which cannot be resolved by any direction of the written word.  
Smoke. Pag. 21. Nor are grounds of prudence any Scripture grounds; to rule by prudence hath let in more will-worship than any thing; Prelacy had its prudence for every new additional in worship, and government; and if Presbytery like prudence too, let the Reader judge what may follow.  
Light. There is prudence which in the habit is an endowment from God, in the exercise a duty from man, Matth. 10.16. whereby every ordinance of God is to be ordered to the best advantage for his honour, and the edification of his people. Opposite to this on the one hand is the corrupt and pragmatical policy of such, as when they profess themselves wise they become fools, Rom. 1.22. and such are they who pretend to perfect the Church of God by their inventions and traditions; and there is on the other hand a neglect and contempt of prudence, which hath brought a contemptible confusion upon the profession of Religion, and this is most found among the sects most opposite to Presbytery.  
Smoke. Pag. 21. And what is that, not directly from Scripture, yet not repugnant? surely, Christ's rule is not such, he opposes any tradition to the command of God, net directly from Scriptures is repugnant to Scriptures, such is the oneness, entireness, indivisibility, and essentiality of the truth; He that is not with me is against me.  
Light. Not directly from Scripture (say you) is repugnant to Scripture; if you mean it universally, it is false, (as the precedent particulars do evince) if you mean it of the substantials of faith and practice, you say true, but not to the purpose; of such as these is the authority of our Saviour, He that is not with me is against me, Matth. 12.30. but of circumstantials it is sound, he that is not against me is with me, Mar. 9.40. And though it be for the honour of the word to be received for a rule of Religion both affirmatively and negatively, yet to wring it and wrest it to serve all turns, where God meant to leave men to prudential accommodation of times, persons, places, and occasions, is to abuse and dishonour it, and so do most of those who pretend most to magnify the majesty of the word.  
Smoke. Pag. 21. And for the Reformed Churches as a rule, that is to set the Sun by the Dial, and not the Dial by the Sun, we must set the Churches by the word, and not Church by Church, and the word by the Church.  
Light. The Reformed Churches are not only as the Dial to the Sun, but as the clock to the Dial, and the word as the Sun to both; when the Sun doth not shine, nor the dial give a shadow, the clock must be heeded for the hour of the day; and sometimes one clock may be a direction to another: and though one individual person or Church hath not power over another, yet many may have power over one, for the spirit of the Prophets is subject to the Prophets, 1 Cor 14.32. and whether they have rule & power over each other or no, one Church may be a pattern to another so fare as the word of God is a pattern to it, as Paul said to the Corinthians, Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ, 1 Cor. 11.1. or (where it is silent) so fare as the light of reason directeth.   

SECT. V Whether Classical, Provincial, and Nationall Presbyteries be like the Independents gathering of Churches.  
Smoke. Pag. 23. ANd when people are instructed, still your work remains to prove your Presbytery over Congregations, or a Church gathered out of a Church to be over a Church; which may upon the Presbytery more justly be recriminated then where you do so often recriminate upon gathered Churches; and me thinks to me it is unreasonable to tax any for Church-gathering, when your Presbytery is maintained by such a kind of principle; What is your Classical, your Provincial, your Nationall Presbytery, but a Church gathered out of the rest, call it a veronall, or representative, or what you please?  
Light. Still your work remains? You are still putting work upon me (as I told you before) which was no part of my undertaking, when I examined your Quere; and as unwilling to perform your own, for you say in the next precedent paragraph; it is not your work to dispute the Interest of Elders and people distinctly, and yet you have taken upon you a Discourse of Church order in the opening of Mr. Prinnes Vindication; I did not so, nor was it needful in the thing itself, being fully done by others, nor directly incident to my Answer to your paper; Nor if I thought it fit to argue and to discuss that controversy, would I do it in a debate with you, for the reason's fore-alleadged.  
And for your recrimination, that Classical, Provincial, and Nationall Presbyteries are gatherings of Churches out of Churches, which the Presbyterians condemn in your party, it is a very impertinent and perverse comparison; wherein there are many considerable differences, (that make it criminal in your Church, and commendable in Classical, Provincial, and Nationall Assemblies) which besides many other are these;  
First, These subordinate gatherings are not made out of any conceit favouring of singularity, disdain, or contempt of entire communion with those out of whom they are gathered, as in your gatherings of Churches, but out of care and compassion to them to consult and provide for their good, as the gathering of the principal Patriots out of the country to be united in the House of Commons, is not for making of a Schism from their country, but for meeting in counsel and care for their country.  
Secondly, This gathering into Classes, etc. is with consent and free choice of those Societies out of which they are gathered, as it is in the choice of Knights, Citizens and Burgesses for the Parliament: not so in your Church gatherings, for those who are left out, when you admit of Members in your selected choice for Churchway, are displeased with your neglects of them, and refusal to administer all the ordinances of God unto them.  
Thirdly, Those who you call out as Members of your new gathered Churches, might more conveniently join together in the administration of holy things, as they are by God's providence disposed of in Parishional dwellings, than your covenanted members, who are many times in their habitations as fare distant as London and Dover, yea, sometimes as fare as London and Amsterdam, Raterdam, Arnhem, or New England: But the gathering of Pastors and Elders into Classical Assemblies, is made with much conveniency, and withal in a kind of necessity, because the Churches whom they represent cannot possibly all of them convene in one place, or if they could, they would be too many to be drawn from their dwellings, too many to be admitted to counsel and censure.  
Fourthly, Gatherings of Ministers and Elders into Classes, etc. makes much for preservation of truth and peace in Parochial congregations, but your gatherings of Churches are, and have proved the means to broach errors, and breed schisms.  
Fifthly, The gathering of Elders for consultation and provision for the welfare of other particular Churches, as it hath sure ground of religious reason, so hath it the honour of most ancient and honourable prescription from the 
* Bin. Tom. 1. Concil. pag. 2. Excus. Paris. 1636.  fourteenth year after the resurrection of Christ, Act. 15. to this day, whereas your gathering of Churches out of Churches in a State, and a time of reformation, is a new device, never practised, or approved by the godly in former ages.  
Sixthly, The gathering of Ministers and Elders into Assemblies Classical, etc. is authorized by the Parliament, the supreme judicatory of the Kingdom, whereas your Church gathering is not allowed by authority, but taken up without it, and against it.   

SECT. VI It is unreasonable to require an undertaking, that the best government in constitution should he faultless in execution; tyrannic more to be feared in Independency then in Presbytery.  
Smoke. Pag. 23. But what if such at yourself and some other godly meek of your way may propound nothing but ways of meekness, can you undertake to secure the people for hereafter, and for all, and for the way in its own nature?  
Light. It is a most unreasonable thing that you should require such a security of those who have the greatest authority in their hands, much less should you look for it from any private man, Minister or other; since no government how warrantable so ever, if managed by sinful man, can be secured from all abuse, either by falling short of duty, by remisenesse, or overshooting it by rigour; But Sir any rational man that knoweth the regular constitution of the Presbyterial Government, and the experimental execution of it in the Churches where it is established, may be more bold to undertake for it, both for the government itself, and for the most probable consequences of it, than any may engage for the way of Independency, and the manifold evil effects and fruits of it, whereof see Mr. 
* c. 3. a p 59, etc.  Bayly his Dissuasive from errors.  
Smoke. Pag. 23. You know Episcopacis began in meekness, and Bishops were brought in first for good, and for peace, but how proved they? tyranny had ever a countenance of meekness, and love, till it got seated on the throne.  
Light. Episcopacy began at such a time as this wherein we live, and upon occasion of such an evil as now is much complained of, viz. the turning of Religion into Faction, and it was taken up as a remedy against it; but when in stead of an Antidote against contention, it became an Engine of oppression, by the slothfulness of some, as well as by the ambition of others, (for if some had not been willing to do too little, others had not been able to usurp too much) Presbytery was by the Reformed Churches restored, and the presidency which before was perpetual, (for fear of the return of tyranny) was made so mutable, that none might be ambitious of it, or injurious by it. And if tyranny have (as you say) a countenance of meekness, and love until it get to be seated on the throne, it may be probable that Independency is preparing for a tyranny, for it pretends much meekness and love, and if it could prevail, it is like it would soon set up the tyranny which now it disclaimeth in others; For the observation of Machiavelli would in all probability prove true in many of those who meet in Independency, 
a Homines subinde magis magisque ambitioso● fieri, primo enin● co spectare ne ab aliis, opprimantur, postea etia●● co eviti ut ipsi alios opprimere possins'. Machiavelli. disp. l. 1. c. 46. p. 188.  Men (saith he) grow more and more ambitious, for first, they see to themselves that they be not oppressed, but afterwards their endeavours are to oppress others; So it was with the Anabaptists in Germany, and so it would be in many of the same spirit, especially such as are hardened by the wars in all kinds and degrees of inhuman hostility; and if we may judge of their spirit by the spiteful, disdainful, and wrathful writings, and threats, and facts of many of them who sort themselves under Independency, and their opposites under the name of Popish, Antichristian, and profane, we can expect no moderation or mercy from them, if their might were matchable to their Malignity.   

SECT. VII. Of the power of the Presbytery for reformation of manners, compared with Prelacy; the evil effects of Independency; the difference betwixt a discipline; and the discipline, Mr. Saltm. his precipitancy in writing, and in divulging what he hath written of Popery in the Covenant, or under the Covenant.  
Smoke. Pag. 24. Look into other Reformed Kingdoms, and see what power of godliness is there by reason of it; do we not see huge bodies of Nations very sinful, corrupt, and formal? for Scotland, our brethren's preaching and watchfulness, it may be more powerful in a reformation of them then their government; and further I deny not but a Government of that nature may much reforms the outward man: Prelacy and Bishops had a government which was Antichristian, yet by an exact execution, etc.  
Light. In granting that you do, I shall not need to trouble myself with what you deny; it is enough for the present point, which you yield, that the Government may much reform the outward man; and for the inward, you acknowledge preaching and watchfulness may be more powerful, (as in the Kingdom of Scotland) and so do I; and for that you say of the Presbyterial Government, if it be Antichristian, as you say, it is not like it should be blessed with so good success as the Christian Government of the Presbytery; and if that be deficient to reformation (as no power put into the hands of man is every way perfect in any Kingdom) the defects may be referred to some other requisites to such a purpose, rather than to Presbytery itself; but where other Ordinances are not wanting, either in a right rule, or in a regular practice, there Presbytery form up to such directions and examples as are found in Scriptures, and the best reformed Churches, is a better means to make men both Civil and Religions, than any Discipline or Government which hath been ordained and observed in the Church, since Popery and Superstition were excommunicated out of it.  
As for Independency, which is your darling on which you dote, and in zeal unto it, hate the Presbyterial Government, we see by sad experience that as it hath prevailed, heresies, schisms, and all manner of licentious exorbitancies have increased, though it have not been set up by Authority, but suffered by connivences what might be expected from it, if (which God forbidden) the solicitations and endeavours for it should advance to a toleration of it?  
Smoke. Pag. 24. For your other reason, that my Texts make against not only the suspending for a time, but for ever, I answer: It is true, principles and circumstances considered, for if neither the Government be Christ's, nor the people Nationally a Church, etc.— how or when can you settle it, or what will you settle, or upon whom?  
Light. For your other reason, that my Texts make against not only the suspending for a time, but for ever: Sr. in these words (though they be but few) as spoken in my name there be two great 〈◊〉, for they are contrary both to your meaning and mine; to yours, because there is your misprision of one word for another, yea for a contrary, for you should say for, and you say against the suspending, etc. but as to me it may be thought my corruption, for you make me to allow of your Texts, as making for your purpose, whereas I say, 
a Mine Exam. and Resolution. p. 10.  For those two Texts which he allegeth for the deferring of the Government, (and if there be any weight in them as to that purpose they make against it, not for a time only, but for ever) I commend to his consideration, etc. but you leave out the parenthesis, which intimates my mind to be, that those Texts do not make for your purpose. And whereas you demand how, and when can you settle it, or what will ye settle, or upon whom? these are no Questions meet to be propounded to me, (who take not upon me to settle any government) but to the Parliament, who in part have really answered them already, and will do it I hope more speedily and more fully than you would have them.  
Smoke. Pag. 25. I plead for a delay only in setting up a Discipline, not the Discipline; or more plainly, that the Discipline be such that the Covenanters may not violate that Article wherein they are bound to do every thing according to the Word, and so prove unfaithful in their Covenant, while they are most zealous for it.  
Light. And the Presbyterians plead not for a Discipline in common, but for the Discipline in special, which is most agreeable to the word of God, against which they will admit of nothing; and if to it they add something (wherein the word leaves them to make out by prudence, and exemplary conformity what is of necessary practice, and not prescribed in the Scriptures) they are not to be charged with doing any thing either against the Word, or against the Covenant.  
Smoke. Pag. 25. And for the title of Popery which I put upon such an obedience, which you say cannot be, because discovered in the next Article of the Covenant; I answer, the Popery is not in the Covenant, but in the misinterpretation upon it, and the mistaken practice of it, which is the thing which I only aver.  
Light. This passage, as the last but one, to which I might add many more, shows your precipitancy in sending forth your fancies to public view; you glory in the quick dispatch of your Pen, and that there may be no delay at the Press, one Printer will not serve your turn for your Book, though of no great bulk, but two at the least must be employed for expedition in it; and when it is Printed, though there be very many and gross escapes, it must not stay to be revised, that any thing mistaken by a Catalogue of the Errata may be corrected; so all things concur for application of the Proverb to your Dictates, Festinans canis caecos parit catules; and so do you put discovered for disavowed in the next Article; betwixt which words there is so great difference, that discovered is for your opinion, disavowed for mine; but you have your discovery, and it is of Popery, not in the Covenant, but in the interpretation upon it, and the mistaken practice of it; but whose interpretation is this? to me it appears to be yours, by your next words.  
Smoke. Pag. 25. Oh how soon may we be Popish under a covenant against it● I had as great a tithe once as another, but I could not hold it so, neither by Covenant, nor Gospel.  
Light. And may we soon be Popish under a Covenant against it? very soon; (for so much your pathetic interrogation imports) than Sr. comfort yourself, as you are a Patron of Heretics and Schismatics, (pleading for indulgency to them, and toleration of them, though you know the Covenant is made expressly against them) for how soon may Heresy and Schism increase under a Covenant against them?   

SECT. VIII. Tithes not Jewish and Popish, as Mr. Saltm. pretendeth.  
Smoke. Pag. 25. What are the maintenance of Ministers by Tithes? jewish and Popish undeniably, yet no notice of this at all.  
Light. How? jewish and Popish undeniably? as undeniably as the Sabbath was jewish when the Prelates so called it, or the Doctrine of the Trinity Popish as Valentinus Gentilis took it when he disliked the Doctrine of the Reformed Churches in that Article, 
a Quod Ecclesia reformatae adhuc in fide Trinitatis cum Papistis conveniret Bell. praefat. in libr. de Christo. Tom. 1. sccund Controvers. general. p 271.  because they agreed with the Papists therein. You are grossly mistaken Sr. in the tenure of Tithes; for though there be a clamour taken up against them, by such as make no scruple either of slander, or of sacrilege, and some would change the Minister's portion, which is their Master's wages for his own work, and reduce them to voluntary pensions of the people, because they would have a liberty to beggar them, who will not humour them in their fond, and false opinions, and licentious practices, but oppose them as of conscience they are bound to do, neither you nor all your party can prove them either jewish, or Popish, as they are allowed, and received for the maintenance of the Ministers of England; And because you are so confident in your opinion of Mr. Nye, whom with Mr. Goodwin 
b Smoke. p. 14.  you cite for a worthy saying touching the Golden Ball of Government, I refer you for satisfaction to him, who will tell you as he hath done divers others, that Ministers of the Gospel may hold, and receive Tithes for their maintenance, by a right and title, which is neither jewish nor Popish, but truly Christian; and there is nothing jewish or Popish in Tithes but the Assignation of the decima decimarum from the 
e Num. 18.28.  levitical Priests to the high Priest, from the high Priest to the 
d In veterilege primitiae debebantur sacerdotibus, decima autem Levitis, & quia sub sacerdotibus Levitae cram, Dominus mandavi● ut ipsi loco decimarum solverent summo sacerdor● decimam decimae: unde nunc cadem ratione tenentur Clerici summo pontifici decimam dare si exigeret. Aquin. Sum. 22. q. 87. a. 4. ad 3. Soto 9 Just. q. 4. art. 4. ad 3. Lorin. in Num. 18. v. 28. p. 687.  Pope, and from the Pope to the King; when first Pope Vrbane gave them to Richard the Second, to aid him against Charles the French King, and others that upheld Clement the Seventh against him, as Polydore Virgil 
e Polyd. Virgil. Hist. l. 16.  relateth. And King Henry the Eighth taking from the Pope the title of Head of the Church to himself by 
f An. 26. Hen. 8. c. 1. Polt. Abri●●●. p. 561.  Act of Parliament, took from him the 
g Ibid. c. 2. p. 565.  Tenths, and other profits annexed to that title, which were settled upon the Crown by Statute in the twenty sixth year of Henry the Eighth; so that the jewish high Priesthood being expired, the Papal Lordship abolished, the Tithes paid under those Titles may be called jewish and Popish, but not that which is assigned for the maintenance of Ministers, because they are yet to do service to their Master, and so to receive the maintenance of his allowance for his work, which fellow servants cannot take upon them to take away without presumption; their door neighbour will not allow them a power to appoint the wages of their servants, much less may they usurp upon the Right of God, and his Ministers, to alienate them from the support of his service and worship; for that is rather Popish, for the Pope hath translated the Tenure from the Ministers to the Monasteries, to Nunneries, and to what purpose he thought fit to assign them, and thence came in the translation of titles from the incumbent Ministers, the making of Leases by the Bishop, Patron and Incumbent, without stint and term of years to Lay persons, until they were restrained by the 
h Sr. Edw. Cook in the first part of the Institut. of the Laws of England. l. 1. c. 7. Sect. 58. fol. 44. p. 1.  State in the 1. of Eliz. 13. so that if you have given up your tithes to your Parishioners of Brasteed, and told the Committee of Examinations so, (as you imply in the passage repeated) you are more Popish therein then other Ministers of the Gospel, who retain them and officiate to the people that pay them in all the Ordinances of Christ, which you refuse to do; and as I hear, you have renounced your Ordination to the Ministry; if so, there is no reason you should have them, whether they be lewish, Popish, or Christian.  
You will say perhaps I make this plea of the tenure of Tithes for my profit, whereas it would be more for the security of my conscience, and support of my credit against the imputation of covetousness, to give them up as antiquated Coremonies, as you have done; and truly Sr. if I had ever thought them either jewish or Popish, I should rather have set you an example of resilling them, than (being your Senior, as I am) have suffered you to be before me as my pattern for a conscientious recusancy of such a revenue; But I never read in any Book, much less in yours, (wherein in case of Tithes you play not the Disputant, but the Dictator) which could make me suspect them to be anti-evangelical; nor hath any respect to advantage made me of a better opinion of their title than yours, since I have rejected the offer of thrice as much benefit by Tithes as now I have. And if Tithes were taken away, I am confident I should be no loser by another allowance; though it may be I may fall under a misrepresentation, as if I argued for them as Demetrius for the honour of Diana, when I mind ●●●●ing more than the gain of Tithes, as he did the gain of her silver Shrines; and I may the rather suspect it from some of your side, (though not from you) because I find the like charge laid upon Mr. Edw. by 
i Whisp. in the ear of Mr. Tho. Edw. p. 1.2.15.  Mr. W.W. in his Whisper in his care: wh● as he is like Luther in the vigour and freedom of his spirit, so is he, as Luther said of himself, of all sins the freest from covetousness; and on my knowledge, whereas he hath had the offer of many good Benefices, he resused them, and hath no Tithes at all for his maintenance, but a voluntary pension, which is not competent for his charge, or pains either in an answerable proportion, or a seasonable payment; and yet is he contented with it, minding much more the doing of the work he undertook, than the receiving of the wages.   

SECT. IX. Of Mr. Colemans' observation of the Church of Scotland.  
Smoke. Pag. 28. TO your other of the blessings, and blessed fruits in Scotland, th●● there is no Heresy nor Schism, l●t Mr. Coleman our learned and pious Brother speak for us both from his experiences.  
Light. I 〈◊〉 by this passage you have not read the Book you pretend to answer; for Mr. Colemans' experience was not of Heresy, and Schism in the Church of Scotland, but (as he gave instance) of the Presbyteries usurpation of the power of banishment; and if you mean Mr. Colemans' charge for that, (as I suppose you do) you might have taken notice of an Answer to it in the seventh Section of mine Examination of your New Quere, p. 21. which, though it were in part but conjectural, is confirmed by a more certain Answer of the Reverend Commissioner Mr. 
* Mr. Gillespie his Nihil Respondes. p. 24.  Gillespie in these words, What from Scotland? I myself (saith Mr. Coleman) did hear the Presbytery of Edinborough censure a woman to be banished out of the gates of the City; was not this an encroachment? It had been an encroachment indeed if it had been so. But he will excuse me if I answer him in his own Language (which I use not) p. 3. & 5. It is at the best a most uncharitable slander, and there was either ignorance or mindlessness in him that sets it down.  
There is no banishment in Scotland but by the Civil Magistrate, who so fare aideth and assisteth Church Discipline, that prefane and scandalous persons, when they are found unruly and incorrigible, are punished with banishment, or otherwise. A stranger coming at a time into one of our Presbyteries, and hearing of somewhat which was represented to, or reported from the Magistrate, aught to have so much circumspection and charity as not to make such a rash and untrue report. He might have at least inquired when he was in Scotland, and informed himself better, whether Presbytery or the Civil Magistrate do banish. If he made no such inquiry, he was rash in judging: if he did, his offence is greater, when after information he will not understand. And if you put your cause to the arbitration of Mr. Coleman, you will find cause by the sentence to conceive him to be no more an Independent, than we have to take him to be a Presbyterian; and I suppose I may say he is more ours then yours, since he hath put himself into the Association of a Classical Assembly, in the Province of London; howsoever whether he prove a Participle, or a Neuter, I know you will not be concluded by his either opinion, or practise, no more shall we.   

SECT. X. A Comparison of young men and old, for prudence and counsel. Of visions and dreams, where the second of joel vers. 28. and Act. 2.17. are vindicated from Mr. Saltm. his mistaking and misapplication of them.  
Smoke. Pag. 29. To that of job— which you apply in way of reproach to the younger, whom you call as it were green heads, etc. 
Smoke. p.. 29.   
Light. In stead of acknowledgement of your misapplication of job 32. vers. 6, 7. where with I charge you, Sect. 4. pag. 14. of my Book, you lay a charge upon me, for reproaching the younger with the name of green-heads. That the impartial Reader may be the better able to judge betwixt us both, I will set down first my words to you, than yours to me; my words are these.  
For his Epiphonema with the words of Elihu forementioned, which are taken out of job 32. vers. 6, 7. Why do not days speak, and multitude of years teach knowledge? they make nothing for his purpose; for the meaning of them is not, that Government, or Discipline, or any other useful thing should not be with all convenient speed established, but that the ancient with whom is wisdom, job 12.12. the gray-headed and very aged men, Chap. 15.10. who have had the experience of many days and years, should be heard, and heeded in matters of advice, and consultation, before such green-headed Counselors as Rehoboam followed to his ruin, 1 Kings 12.13, 14.  
Smoke. Pag. 29. And your Answer to them is, The elder I esteem as Fathers, and the younger we know are such in whom the Lord speaks more gloriously, as he himself saith, Your young men shall see visions, and upon your sons and daughters will I pour out my spirit, your old men shall dream deames. Now whether is it more excellent to dream dreams, or to see visions? The Lord delivered Israel by the young men of the Provinces; Surely we may more safely hearken to the younger that see visions of reformation, then to the elder that dream dreams of it only.  
Light. I spoke no more either in praise of old men, or disparagement of young then conduced to clear the Text in question betwixt us, yet thence you have taken occasion to magnify young men, and to vilify the old, alleging the saying of the Prophet joel, Your old men shall dream dreams, and your young men shall see visions, and thereupon demanding, whether is more excellent to dream dreams, or to see visions: you resolve the Question yourself thus; Surely, we may more safely hearken to the younger that see visions of Reformation, then to the elder that dream dreams of it only.  
And do all, or only, or most young men see visions of Reformation? and all, or only, or most old men but dream dreams of it? If there be not such an Antithesis betwixt them, your comparative thesis is an error of youth, a slander of age, and I shall not doubt, if you take up a duel with me in this quarrel, with the old man's crutch (bring what weapons you will or can) to beat you out of the field, or at least to give you the foil.  
But besides your disparagement of old men, I have some what to say to you for mistaking and misapplying the words of the Prophet, joel 2.28. brought in by the Apestle, Act. 2.17. first, for the defence of old men; you make as if it were safer to hearken to young men then to them, as if the young men were wiser counsellors than the old.  
I grant beforehand that sometimes there may be young men, (as joseph, Daniel, and Samuel,) who may have a spirit of wisdom, and thereby may be fit to give counsel, and to govern the ways of the aged; but setting aside singular and extraordinary examples, compare age & youth in the general, and the resolution of reason and example will be, that old men are fit to direct and guide the young, then contrariwise; for in old men the passions and perturbations of the mind (which give great impediment to prudence, (for they are to reason as fumes and vapours about a candle, which dim the light thereof) are more subdued then in young men. Besides experience (which is both the parent of wisdom, of which it is begotten, and the nurse which bringeth it on to a further growth and proficiency) falls not within the fathom of a young man's reach, but of the old man; hence is it that Solomon saith; The hoary head is a ●rowne of glory if it be found in the way of righteousness, Prov. 16.31. and that by the law, the younger sort were to rise up before the hoary head, and to honour the face of the old man, Levit. 19.32. For with the ancient is wisdom, and in length of day's understanding, job 12.12.  
And hence it is, that the Counselors and Governors of Commonweals, are called Senators, and their Assembly 
* Senatus nomen dedit aetas, nam i●dem. patres sunt. Quintil. Instit orat. l. 1. c. 6. p. 38.  Senatus, from age: and in the old Testament they are called the Elders of Israel, and in the New those whose function requireth of them a wisdom of the best kind, and highest degree, (for it must be such a wisdom as must go beyond his subtlety who deceiveth all the world, Rev. 12.6.9.) are called Presbyters, a word in Greek of the same signification with Elders in English. And for example you cannot be forgetful of the Story of Rehoboams old and young Counselors, 1 King. 12. nor what prelation is given to the old above the young in that Story; and while you remember it, you should not sway the preeminence on the young men's side against the old men, as you have done.  
Besides the Scriptures, there be manifold instances against your fence in the difference of age and youth, I will mind you of some, as that of 
a Tuum est undecunque evocare & ascribere tibi (exemple Mosis) senes, non juvenes Ber. de Cons. lib. 4. cap. 4. col. 886.  Bernard counselling Eugenius to call to him Counselors (as Moses did) that were old men, not young men; and of the Lacedæmonians, of whom 
b Apud Lacedaemonies two qui amplissimuns magistratum gerunt, ut sunt, sic etiam appellantur senes. Cicer. Cat●. Major. seu de Senect. Tom. 3. ●p●rum Cicer. pag. 408. in fol.  Cicero saith, that they who are the chief Magistrates, whose authority is of most ample extent, as they are, so they are called old men.  
And among the Romans aged prudence was so much honoured, that 
c  quisque atate antecellit, ita sententia principatum abtine●. Ibid. pag. 415.  in the College of Sages, Sentences were partly valued by seniority. And there is good ground for this great estimation of old men, 
d Maximas Respub. per adolescentes labefast●s, à senibus suste●●ates & resti●●as reperiatis. Ibid. p. 408.  for great Commonweals, as he showeth, which have been ruined by young men, have been repaired and restored by old men. Such as Agesilaus was, whom (though among the vulgar Egyptians, (when he came into their Country, and they saw no stately train about him, but an old grey beard laid on the grass by the seaside,) a little man that looked simply on the matter, in a thread bare gown fell a laughing at him) yet the chief Captains and Governors of King Tachis honourably received, and were marvellously desirous to see him, for the great fame that went abroad of him and he was famous for his wisdom both Military and Civil, as 
c Plutarch. in Agesil. pag. 629.630.  Plutarch reporteth in the Story of his life. To him I could add many examples of later time, and nearer home; I will name only one, and that is my Reverend brother 
f See his book de Diphthongis aut Bivocatibus.  Mr. Tho. Gataker, who though he have been an old man a great while, hath given (of late since his sickness, and secession from the Assembly) such a specimen of a pregnant apprehension and faithful memory, as may assure a judicious Reader, that albeit his body be weak, his brain is not so; though his head have been long grey, his wit is yet green and flourishing.  
Secondly, Now for mine other exception against your comparison; In it you not only give preeminence to young men before old, but prefer them in this, that young men see visions of reformation, and old men dream dreams of it only; wherein you wrap up three particulars, which you take for granted, but it will be an harder task than you imagine to prove any one of them.  
First, That Revelations by visions are more excellent than those that come by dreams.  
Secondly, That visions ascribed to young men are denied to old men.  
Thirdly, That young men have visions of reformation, old men only dream of it; whereas  
First, 
g Duo Revelationum modi, per somnium scilicet & per visionem imaginariam vigilanti objectam, non se superant mutuo ratione excellentioris potentiae vel praestantioris modi cognoscendi, cum uterque perficiatur in imaginativa. Jacob. Bonfrer. in Numb. 12.6. pag. 78●. col. 1.  some learned men have resolved that visions are not more excellent than dreams, and the reasons may be; First, because in Scripture they are brought in as Revelations, though different, yet without prelation of the one before the other, as Numb. 12. If there be a Prophet among you, I the Lord will make myself known unto him in a vision, and speak unto him in a dream, Num. 12.6. Secondly, as great matters are represented in dreams as in visions, as the affliction of the children of Israel in Egypt, and their deliverance was revealed to Abraham in a dream, Gen. 15.12. and the intercourse betwixt heaven and earth, in the ministry of Angels was represented to Jacob in a dream, Gen. 28.12. It was in a dream that Solomon had the singular wisdom imparted to him, 1 King. 3.5. By a dream was the conception of jesus Christ by the Holy Ghost revealed to joseph, Matth. 1.20. and the plot of perdition against him, with the way to prevent it, Matt. 2.13.  
Thirdly, as for the matter, so for the manner, Revelation by a dream is as clear, and as sure as by a vision; as in that of Abraham, of jacob, of Solomon, of joseph forementioned; to which we may add that of Abimelech, Gen. 20.3. and out of humane Authors; the dream of 
h Hieron. Epist. ad Eustoch. de custod. Virg. Tom. 1. p. 146. 147.  Hierome, wherein he was brought before the Tribunal of Christ, and denied to be a Christian, because he was too much a Ciceronian, and was adjudged to be scourged, and was so, and in the morning he found his shoulders blew with his beating; and the dream of 
i Hospinian. in Hist. Sacram. part. alt. fol. 26. & Rivet. Exercit. in Gen. 28. Exercit. 123. p. 603.  Zuinglius against the Masso, had an evidence of the matter very clear (though for the Author he was uncertain.)  
But we may say further that dreams have an excellency above visions, and the reason is this: That which hath more of God, and less of man, is more excellent than that which contrariwise hath more of man and less of God: now in dreams there is more of God, and less of man; because in sleep the senses are bound up, and so there is more communion betwixt the spirit of God, and the soul of man, and less interruption in that communion then to men awake; so that in dreams there is no disturbing of the Revelation by the concurrence of sensual objects, no denying or suspending of assent by examination of reason, as Dr. 
k Rivet. ubi supra.  Rivet well observeth. And the reason is ratified by natural Philosophy, for the mind (saith 
l Viget animus in somniis, liberque sensibus ab omn● impeditione curarum jacente et mortuo paene corpore. Cicer. de Divinat. lib. 1. pag. 274.  Cicere) in dreams is vigorous, being free from senses, and from all interruption of cares, the body, the while being in a manner dead. And elsewhere he 
m Dormientium animi maxime declarant divinitatem suam, multa enim cum remissi & liberi sint futura prospiciunt, ex que intelligitur quaeles futuri sint cum se plane corporis vinculis relaxaverint. Cicer. de Senect. p. 417.  saith, that the minds of men asleep declare their divinity, for when they are relaxed and free, they foresee many future things, whence it may be gathered what they will be hereafter, when they are wholly released from bonds of the body.  
The second Particular which your comparative speech implieth is, that visions ascribed to young men are denied to old men; whereas old men have their visions as well as young; as John the Evangelist though he were young when he came first to be a Disciple of his and our great Master, had his Revelations by vision in the Isle of Pathmus when he was old, viz. in the 96. year of Christ, which must be at least the 80. year of John's age, if we suppose him to be but 14. years old at the entrance of his attendance on him, and younger we cannot reasonably imagine him to have been at that time.  
A third thing which in your comparison of young men and old for visions and dreams. I may not admit of, is, that you bring it to the matter of reformation, and make it as if the young men had seent a vision, and that old men had but some dark notions of it, like unto a nightly dream; which is so presumptuous and groundless a conceit that your most waking thoughts cannot make it seem otherwise to any sound understanding, than a vapour of a young man's brag, or the vanity of a sick man's dream.   

SECT. XI. Mr. Saltm. his insufficient answer and figurative trifting unworthy of an Answer.  
Smoke. Pag. 29. FOr that of the conversion from Paganism to Christianity, there is no such disproportion, etc.  
Light. If the indifferent Reader will turn to the place, pag. 15. of my Book, he shall perceive your Answer to my Text (which you do not faithfully repeat) is very insufficient, and if he read your words first, and mine after, he will take them for a confutation of yours, not yours for a confutation of mine; and the like hath been said by a judicious Reader for a great part of your Reply.  
Smoke. Pag. 30. But we are speaking of the spiritual building or Church here, which is the image of the Church above; and as that is of true, real, essentially spiritual living stones, so the Church below is to consist at least of such as visibly and formally appear so.  
Light. In this and many other passages of your Book you are rather typical in representation, then topical in proof; you follow your Allegory so fare, that to follow you therein is rather to dally then to dispute; Besides, the result of your exception either closeth with my sense, or strayeth from the question in difference betwixt us; and if in such particulars I do not trace your steps, think not I could not answer you, but that I would not trouble myself, nor tyre the Reader with trifling impertinency.   

SECT. XII. A comparison of Presbyterians and Independents in point of strictness and looseness in admission of members; of the mixture in the Church of Corinth.  
Smoke. Pag. 32. LEt the doors of our Churches be as straight as you imply, I am sure your doors are set open, or rather cast off the hinges.  
Light. That the doors of our Churches are no straiter may be partly imputed to some of your party, who have no mind of such a through reformation as would deprive them of an opportunity and occasion of gathering of Churches; which could have no pretence, if the Reformation were wrought up to such a pitch as the Presbyterians desire.  
And if our doors be set too open, or cast off the hinges, it is in permitting Independents such a liberty of Lecturing in our Churches, to preach against Presbytery, as they would never yield to Presbyterians, were it in their power to prohibit them.  
But Sr. I believe, in some respects neither commendable, nor warrantable, your doors are more open than ours, your hinges more lose than ours, your walls much more wide, or rather you have neither doors, nor hinges, nor walls to bond your membership; for if you had, how could people of London, Holland, New England, be members of the same particular Church, as before hath been objected unto you? but this is not cardo controversiae betwixt you and me.  
Smoke. Pag. 32. To that of your challenge that I should show any such example in the New Testament, of taking out the best when there was a mixture of holy and profane; I answer: These were Gospel Churches gathered by the Word and Spirit into Gospel fellowship, and when you make your Parishes to appear such Churches, than I shall tell you more, till than I shall suspend your challenge.  
Light. By this Reply I see (though you take time to answer a challenge) you will rather foil yourself, then seem to be foiled by your Antagonist; for if Gospel Churches, gathered by the Word and Spirit into Gospel fellowship, as you state the case, may consist of such godly and ungodly members, as were in the Church of Corinth, 1 Cor. 11.21. then for all your pretence of your Gospel way you have no warrant for such a separation as you take upon you to make. Besides, Sr. the separation of people is not to be varied in regard of the Church way of gathering into fellowship, which is extrinsecall, but in regard of the difference of persons as they are holy or profane; but with you, it seems, if the manner of gathering be such as you call a Gospel way, it matters not much whether the matter of the Church be holy or unholy; and indeed, though you exclude from coming into your Churches some kind of wicked ones, you admit of those whom without repentance God will never account of the communion of Saints, such as are notoriously covetous, proud, slanderous, and malicious, who have no more visible interest in Christ then a fornicator, or drunkard, a swearer, or Sabbath-breaker.   

SECT. XIII. To whom Christ is an Head, and how; of his rod of Iron and his Golden Sceptre, and of his being a Lord and a servant; gentle, yet terrible.  
Smoke. Pag. 34. IT is true, Christ is an head, but he is not an head to every body, he will have a body proportionable to his head; is a Nation of all sorts a fit body for such an head? is he not a pure, holy, and glorious head in his Gospel dispensation? and is a body so leprous, so wicked, so formal, so traditionally, and Antichristianly corrupted a fit body? Shall I take the members of my body, saith Paul, and join them to an barlot to make one flesh? God forbidden; what then shall the head do with such members?  
Light. It is true, Christ is an head, and not an head to every body, but is he not an head to his own integral members, because the wicked mingle with them in an outward profession? have hypocrites any more consanguinity with the pure blood of Christ then profane persons have? yet Christ is head of that Church where reprobates are reputed to be members; and are there not some branches of the Vine which bear no fruit, and are to be taken away? Joh. 15.2. who cannot for all that hinder the vital influence into other branches, as in the example of the Church of Corinth.  
And for that you say of a body so leprous, so wicked; as applied to our Reformation in furi, or in fact, it is very falsely reprod chfull, and savours of ungratitude to God, and of Pharisaical disdain of purer Churches than those you stand for; wherein you grossly digress from the moderation whereto you protend.  
Smoke. Pag. 34. To that of his ruling with a rod of iron as well as a golden Seipter, I answer.  
And doth he rule any in his Church with his rod of iron, who were not called in first by his golden Sceptre?  
And for that of his iron rod in Psal. 2. it is spoken of Christ not as King of his Church, but of the Nations.  
Light. By this Answer you seem to forget your own Argument, which was to prove an unsuitableness of the Presbyterial Government to the Person of Christ; and when I have showed that the Person of Christ is not only amiable as a Saviour, but formidable to offenders as a Lord, having an iron Rod, as well as a golden Seepter, you say by way of distinction that he hath his iron sceptre as King of the Nations, not as King of the Church; but if his Church consist of golden Saints and gilded Hypocrites, (for you say it consists at least 
* Smoke. p. 31.  of such as visibly and formally appear so, and hypocrites appear so, and the appearance of Saintship is the most that is in them) he hath and useth an iron rod to drive away, and to crush, as well as a golden Sceptre to invite and call to his presence; for were not Ananias and Saphira members of the Church after a Gospel dispensation? and were they not ruined as well as ruled, when they were both of them suddenly smitten dead for their hypocritical profession? what could an iron rod have done more, if they had taken up heathenish hostility against the Church? and was not this exemplary punishment laid upon them that the Church might fear Christ as a Lord, as well as love him as a Saviour of his Church, that they might fear his iron rod, as well as love his golden Sceptre? sure I am it wrought that effect upon Christians in general, for fear came upon all the Church, and upon at many as heard these things, Act. 5.11.  
Smoke. Pag. 34. For your other Texts of Christ's being a servant and a Lord, a Lamb and terrible, you only prove what I grant, that he is more a King and a Lordin his Government, then in any other of his Gospel dispensations.  
Light. In this particular you give me occasion to return a piece of your own Rhetoric upon you, and to call you as you do me, 
* Pag. 17.  a fair enemy, for you repeat my proofs so fully here (though elsewhere you miserably maim and mangle them) that you may be thought to have done as Bellarmine is said to do in his Controversies, viz. to bring in more of the Protestants Objections then he is able to answer; But when you say that I prove only what you grant, that he is more a King and Lord in his Government, then in any other of his Gospel dispensations; you invert the order of the words you should observe; for you should have rather said, You now grant what I have proved, for I never knew so much of your mind in this matter before; and you grant so much as might have spared a great part of your Reply to me; for the Lordship of his Government was the matter in question, and that being granted by you, the Presbyterial Government is not so inconsistent or unsuitable with the condition of Christ's description of himself as you would make it.   

SECT. XIV. The Presbyterial Government not unsuitable to the condition of Christ; the prevailing of Independents, and of the Sects that meet in Independency, much more terrible than the Presbyterial Government can be.  
Smoke. Pag. 34, 35. But all this will not prove the Lordship of such a Presbytery or Government; cert ainely you intent a terrible government, because you bring in these Texts that have judgement and severity in them, which Christ threatens to the Nations and Kings of the earth and not to his Churches; will you make Christ rule in his Church as he doth in the World? well, let your Presbytery enjoy the iron sceptre, while the Churches of Christ enjoy the golden, and try if you ruin not more than you rule.  
Light. These proofs were not brought to prove a Presbyterial Government, but dato sed non concesso, that it was severe, it was not sounsutable to the condition of Christ as you pretended. And for that you say, certainly you intent a terrible Government, though you speak to me, you do not mean it of me, for you have said 
* Smoke, p. 23.  before, What if such as yourself, and some other godly meek of your way propound nothing but ways of meekness to yourselves, can you undertake, etc. whereby you seem to acquit me from the accusation of such rigour as you suspect in others; and if that be your meaning, you are not mistaken in my spirit, for if I know any thing of it, it is fare from that height of heat against any opposers whatsoever which was in the Disciples of our Saviour against the Samaritans, when they received him not, Luk. 9.54.  
And I confess, in the presence of God who knoweth the hearts of all men, that if a spirit of meekness, and sweetness, and of all affectionate and fair insinuations would prevail with the most perverse and blasphemous heretic to win him to be cordially Christ's, I could wish the golden Sceptre held out to invite him into the communion of the Church, rather than the iron rod to bruise, or break, or to affright him from the Church. And though you mean this of others, who show themselves Zealots for the Presbyterial Government, you are too inconsiderate, too uncharitable, too confident in your charge; for how can you be so certain as you make yourself, when the thing they move for hath no terror in it; It is true, that according to the French Proverb, He that would have his neighbour's dog hanged gives out that he is mad; so your party that would have the Presbyterial Government literally suspended, and made away as a mad dog, as if it would (as Paul was before his conversion) be mad against the Saints, Act. 26.11. and breathe out nothing but threaten and slaughters against them, Act. 9.1. give out that it is an intolerable Tyranny, and ten times worse than the Prelatical Domination: When indeed if men will lay aside all prejudice, partiality, and passion, they shall find the spirit of Independency more terrible than that of Presbytery. For,  
First, that which is so much stuck at as an encroachment upon Christian liberty, and a means of the Minister's domineering over the people, the suspension from the Sacrament of the Lords Supper, are not the Independents more rigid than the Presbyterians are? for they generally suspend whole Parishes from the Sacrament (except some few of their covenanted disciples) for divers years together, without any law or rule at all; the Presbyterians generally do not so; or if some do forbear communions for a time, it is not upon such principles as the Independents maintain; and they do all they can to expedite the removal of all scandals from the Sacrament, wherein the Independents refuse to join with them.  
Secondly, the Independents deny not only the Sacrament of the Lords Supper, as hath been said, but they deny the Sacrament of Baptism to all such as are not the children of their covenanted members; the Presbyterians accept of them for a federal holiness professed by their parents; and if there were no more but these two differences betwixt them, it were enough (if men would not give up themselves to be grossly befooled by flattery and calumny) to cry out upon the Independents for their injurious invasions upon Christian liberty, and to love the Presbyterians for their mildness and charity in these particulars: but further,  
Thirdly, The Independents Government (though to speak properly, Independency is rather Anarchy than Government) is more terrible than the Presbyterian; because under it are united all sorts of sectaries, among whom many are of furious spirits, men of blood and Belial, and such as have made many bloody massacres in Germany, and have threatened if otherwise they may not have their will, (their liberty they call it) that they will have it by the sword; for have they not an Independent army to force their way against the Presbyterians? I quoted to this purpose Mr. Prinnes fresh Discovery, and Dr. Bastw. Preface to his second part of Independency, but I quoted not their words, now I will, became since Mr. Edw. put forth his last Book, some of that sect have spoken bloody words against his person; and (though he be so confident in the goodness of his cause, and the integrity of his intentions, that he believes he should less fear to be killed, than any to kill him) yet since I find the Independents deal with the Presbyterians as Ahab did with Elijah, charging him with his own fault, 1 King. 18.17. and that like the beast in the Revelation, they speak like a dragon, Revel. 13.11. and are horned rather like a ram then a lamb, I think it fit that their spirit be better known, that they may be less trusted; especially, where they pretend more meekness than they find among Presbyterians; their words are these,  
Two Predicant Captains apprehended, and questioned for preaching in Newport Pannell against the Ordinance of Parliament of the 26. of April, 1645. among other speeches averred, 
a Mr. Prinnes Epist. Dedic. before his Fresh Discovery of some prodigious new wand'ring blazing-starres and firebrand. fol. 3. p. a.  That if the godly and well affected party were thus persecuted, they should be forced to make a worse breach than what was yet, when they had done with the King's party; telling one Ensign Ratford and his Soldiers that they were worse than Cavaliers; and that when they had made an end of the war with the Cavaliers, they should be forced to raise a new Army to fight with them. And in Dr. 
b Dr. Bastw. his second part of Independency not Gods Ordinance, in the Preface. fol. 14. p. b. & fol. 15. p. a.  Bastwicks' Preface to his second part of his Independency not Gods Ordinance, he saith thus; Among those they think they may confide in, they affirm they will not be beholding to the Parliament nor any body else for their libertia, for they will have it, and ask them no leave; they have the sword now in their hand, and they think their party strong enough to encounter any adverse and opposing party; and they profess they care not how soon they come to outting of throats, and speak of nothing but the slaughtering and butchering of the Presbyterians.  
And though I confess there may be many Independents (and some I know to be such as yourself) of a meek and gentle disposition, yet as Peter Du Moulin said of many of the Priests in France, that they were for their loyaltis not beholding to the maxim●● of Italy, so I say, for their mooknesse they are not beholding to the Principles of Independency; for where they most prevail they puff men up in pride, selfe-conceipt, and disdain of their Christian brethren, though in gifts and graces fare better than themselves, many of them being Anabaptists, and of the spirit of that insolent heretic, who, when 
c Cum ego humaniter pro liuguae mea more cum compellarem, nunquam aliter dignatus est mecu loqui, quam si cum cane sibi negotium fuisset. Cum introductus fuisset in Curiam, voluit primo Syndico assidere; inde repulsus, caput oculosque torquendo, Propheticam Majestatem simulans, etc. Calvin. Epist. Farello, p. 62.  Calvin had conference with him, and entertained him with terms of humanity, vouchsafed him none other language then if Calvin had been no better than a dog; and he shown the arrogancy of his mind by his carriage, and behaviour, as well as by his words, offering to sit next to the prime Syndick of the Senate of Geneva, and upon the repulse, by the motion of his head, and eyes, signifying great weath, he took upon him a Prophetical Majesty. And albeit some take it for a proof of the goodness of their cause, that they have engaged many great and rich men in it, which makes them, as is truly 
d Mr. Bailiff his Dissuasive from Errors. cap. 3. pag. 53.  observed, Though the smallest of all the sects of the time for their number, yet the greatest for worth of their followers, yet that in a true Christian consideration makes rather against it; for by getting so many rich and great men unto their party, and aiming so much at such disciples (with such neglect of others as is observed) shows that they are not minded as the Apostle was, when he said to the Corinthians; I seek not yours but you, 2 Cor. 12.14. but rather contrariwise; so that if they would say, what many by their actions speak, they should tell their converts; I seek not you but yours, or rather yours then you. And secondly, when rich and great men embrace Independency, it may give great cause of suspicion that they do it, because, as rich, they are apt to be highminded, 1 Tim. 6.17. and all highminded men are the most legitimate sons of lapsed Adam, who would be Independent upon God, and be a God of himself, and so they are apt to take up Independency, rather out of an humour of pride, than out of conscience towards either pictie, or truth.  
Fourthly, It is apparent to all how ambitious many Independents are of all places of honour, of power, and profit, of being Members in the Parliament, prime Officers in the Army, Committee men; and if any cross them, what ways they find out to be meet with them, sending them tickets, and calling them in question, when they know there is no just cause of exception against them, of purpose to cast an awe upon all men, as if the authority of the State were at their service, to secure their credits against all complaints how just so ever, and to discountenance those who in an ingenuous and generous spirit oppose their usurpations, which are now so visible to the view of all that are not wilfully blind, that it is matter of great wonder, that the Presbyterians (who are more in number, and dignity, than any sect whatsoever, and if they were as active as they, might much overtop them in power) are so dull and indulgent towards them, as to suffer them still to carry on their design as they do; which in some Presbyterians for the time past may be imputed to their patience, and meekness of mind, being loath to offend such; but if it should be so general hereafter as it hath been, it might be ascribed to a negligence, and coldness in that cause which they should endeavour to promote with all their might in all warrantable ways of zeal, of industry, circumspection, and prudence.  
Fifthly, Though you assign the iron Sceptre to the Presbytery, the golden to your Churches, the truth is, if the Independents were once as Independent as they would be, they would be Masters of both metals, both gold and iron; and some of their party brag they have both the purse and the sword in their power; if so, (and in such a degree as they would have it, but it is true but in part, though too much) they that now renounce appeals to Classical, Provincial, and Nationall Assemblies, would appeal to the sword, and then they would be ready to ruin those that would not be ruled by them, to break those that would not bow unto them.  
Sixthly, You cannot find any thing in the Presbyterians principles, nor in their practice, as they are Presbyterians, which may be matter, I say not of conviction, but of suspicion of such a terrible government, as you take upon you, with so much confidence, to charge upon them.   

SECT. XV. A pleasant reproof of a misapplication of Scripture is no offence, against the majesty of the word; how, and in what cases a taunting speech may be allowed.  
Smoke. Pag. 35. I Wonder that one of your experience in the majesty of the word should be so pleasant with a Scripture allegory.  
Light. Here you impute unto me that, which (if truly objected) would require a penitential confession on my part; if untruly, no less on yours; that it may be more manifest, it will be meet to take notice how my words come in upon yours, and yours upon mine. Upon your misapplication of Matth. 9.17. Neither do men put new wine into old bottles, my 
a Mine Examination. p. 20.  words are these. Conceiving the Penner to be a sober man, I must think in this passage the Printers brain was troubled with the fume of new wine, to conclude with nonsense for a rational consequence; and I believe no new wine and old bottles, how new or old so ever, can worse agree together, than the foregoing evidence and the final sentence of this paragraph. Upon my words your Comment is,  
Smoke. Pag. 35. Because the Scripture is of wine, you jest on it, as if it had made the sense less sober. I am sorry my younger pen should reprove the aged for jesting, which the Apostle saith is not convenient. And truly it is not comely for the servants to play upon the master of the Feast, or any thing in his house, especially upon his wine, which alludes so to his blood, and which he hath promised to drink with us new in his Father's Kingdom.  
Light. To which I answer; First, That the Apostle, Eph. 5.4. forbidding jesting under that word, which in Moral Philosophy is the title of a virtue, doth not forbid all kind of jests, towards all persons, and in all cases; for what was the Irony of God to Adam, Gen. 3.22. and of Elijah to the Priests of Baal, 1 King. 18.27. but a jesting reproof?  
Secondly, There is a great difference betwixt jesting at Scripture, and at a misapplication of Scripture; this may be taunted without any relish of irreverence at all to the other; for example, a man may give all religious respect due to the words of our Saviour, joh. 21.16. Feed my sheep, but when 
b Bellarm. Tom. 1. lib. 3. cap. 1. de Verbo Dei. p. 184 & 185.  Bellarmine abuseth them, by wresting them and inferring from them the proof of the Supremacy of the Pope over the universal Church, I may deride the absurdity of his sequel, without any impeachment of the antecedent allegation. The like may be said of Psal. 91.13. as brought in by Pope 
c Fox Martyrolog. Vol. 1. pag. 265. printed London. Ann. 1641.  Alexander, to prove his proud usurpation over Princes, when at Venice, Anno 1159. he set his foot upon the neck of the Emperor Frederick Barborosse; the Story whereof, though 
d Bin. Tom. 7. council. part. altera. p. 629. col. 1.  Binius say it was feigned by Henetiques, 
e Vicars Decapl. in lib. Psalm. in p. 91. pag. 268. col. 2.  is set out and is to be seen in a Table at Venice; and of the 
f See Paraus in Gen. 28. ver. 12. col. 1597.  inference which some make of the ubiquity of the body of Christ from the vision of jacobs' ladder, Gen. 28.12. And what resolution can be made of a Popish gloss on Gen. 1.10. (according to the Latin Translation, Congregationem aquarum vecavit maria, applying it to the praise of the Virgin Mary) without such a scoff as may expose the Authors ridiculous descant to scorn and laughter? which repeated by a learned Hebrician he gins the report with 
g Audi Lector & ride. Sixt. Amam. Antibarbar. Bibl. l. 2. p. 287.  hear Reader and laugh. And if I thought your quotation of Matth. 9.17. were as wide from the scope, and as weak for the proof of that for which it was produced by you, as some of these now mentioned allegations are, (wherein there are divers judicious and religious Readers concurring with me) I might (reserving all due respect to that sacred Text) entertain your misapplication of it, rather with a jesting correction, than a serious conviction.  
You will say perhaps, (as in 
h Smoke. p.. 59  another place you have done) that mis-application is a word sooner written then proved, and 
i Ibid.  you would have the Reader judge (so would I, if he be neither imprudent nor partial) whether it be your misapplication or my misinterpretation; and let him judge also whether misinterpretation be not a word sooner written then proved, as well as misapplication is; and let him further judge whether these words of yours [I am sorry my younger pen should reprove the aged for is sting, which the Apostle faith is not convenient] should have been uttered by you in a jesting or jeering way, as they are; and whether now you should not be sorry in good earnest, that your younger pen was so forward to blet the face of the aged with such a black aspersion, as uncomely jesting at the Scripture, and (being but a servant) playing upon the Master of the Feast, or any thing in his house, especially upon his wine which alludes to his blood, and which he hath promised to drink new with us in his Father's Kingdom.  
It would better have becomed you (especially professing such respect to me as you do in your Letter and 
k Smoke. p. 16.  elsewhere) to have taken my jesting, as I meant it, with a candid acceptation; as the laughter of joh was received by younger men than himself; If I laughed (faith he) they believed it not, and the light of my countenance they cast not down, job 29.24. that is, (as the Last Annotations expound it) they thought a man of my gravity would not be so familiar with them, or as Grotius makes the note: 
l Etiam joca mea putabant aliquid occultare serii. Grot. in Job 29.24.  They thought some serious matter lay laid under my jesting, and my familiarity did not cause them to grieve, be angry, or contemn me, or 
* Authoritas mea mihi apud ipsos constabat. Grot. Ibid.  my authority suffered no diminution by that means, or upon that occasion.  
You frame the like objection against me for 
m Smoke. p. 41.  being too pleasant with your expression of the truth by a star, because it is the very allegory of the spirit, and so was that which Barchoche has alluded unto, Numb. 24.17. yet was his misapplication of it justly entertained with a taunt, and his name with derision turned into Be●●bozba, the son of a lie, for which I quoted two grave Authors in mine 
n Pag. 27.  Examination of your Quere. You say there was more lightsomness than light in that passage, and I believe there was more light also then in most parts of your Book, which you have smoked in every page; you will say perhaps that here again I am too pleasant with your Scripture evidence, but let me tell you Sr. without offence, you are observed to play upon the Sacred groundwork with too much boldness, and wanto●nesse of wit, to make many allusions which are but illusions of your own misinformed sancie; and they take the Title of your Book to be very fantastical, and (besides many jests which have passed upon it by some ingenuous Readers, which I forbear, lest I should make you angry with that which made them merry) while I was writing this, there came to my hands a Latin Letter form a very learned and religious Divine, with whom I have a commerce of Letters in that Language, wherein he takes your Answer (which you call a full answer unto me) to have none other fullness in it then a 
o Persuafissimum habco— postertorem ejus (scil. libri) partem, quae responsum tuum perstring it, merum fumum esse, sacillimeque uno tctu calami tui dissipatum iri, etc.  fume and vapour, which will easily vanish into nothing.   

SECT. XVI. Of the Presbyterial and Independent Government how affected; the slow proceeding of the Church Government made no Argument for it, nor mentioned to the disparagement of the Parliament; Mr. Saltm. brings the Parliaments Authority under popular liberty; of the wheat in Independent Congregations.  
Smoke. Pag. 38. PRove your Argument (Government, you would say) first to be Christ's, the particulars and entireness accordingly, and then I shall allow you your Argument; but you grant it to be but partly Christ's, partly the Assemblies, or of prudence.  
Light. It is no part of mine undertaking to prove the Presbyterial Government to be Christ's Government, nor is it needful so to do; for I have told you where it is done already, which no man hath refuted nor can do; nor is it needful to assert every part of it by express Scripture; and if the Independent platform be according to the pure Gospel pattern, as you phrase it, why have not your Brethren cleared that doubt all this while, having been engaged thereto by promise, and often called upon for performance thereof?  
Smoke. Pag. 38. To your last that the Reformation hath proceeded by slow paces, and degrees; What, would you prove it by its slow proceeding to be Christ's Government, and therefore to be settled? that were a strange kind of reasoning.  
Light. I see it is not strange with you to mistake, or pervert a plain truth; for did not you plead against the speedy settling of the Presbyterian Government by the example of Christ? and was not mine 
p See Sect. 8. p. 23. of mine Examination.  Answer to this purpose, Christ was not so long in settling of his Government, nor the Parliament and Assembly so hasty as you pretended. Is this a proof of mine opinion, I pray you, or a confutation of yours?  
Smoke. Pag. 41. Why should you speak of the Governments fluttering on a limetwigge at Westminster? sure the State or Parliament may deserve better of any of the Assembly, then to be thought their Retarders or limetwigs.  
Light. Here you make as if I spoke without due respect, or rather with terms of reproach unto the State or Parliament, for bringing in the Government as fluttering upon the limetwigge at Westminster; and thereupon you say, Sure the State or Parliament may deserve better of any of the Assembly then to be thought their Retarders or limetwigs: and you strive to strain up the words to an higher degree of guilt, by an aggravation of ingratitude, in that they have honoured them above their Brethren.  
To which I answer: First, that my words, Sect. 9 p. 26. are these; It hath been, if not the fault, yet the ill hap of our Church and State, to have the Government fluttering upon the limetwig of deliberation at Westminster, when it should be upon the wing of actual execution all over the Kingdom.  
Secondly, that if I had mistaken terms of diminution of the dignity of the Parliament, for terms of honour, and grateful acknowledgement, there is no reason that for my fault the Assembly should be involved in the imputation of an offence; since I did not write by any either command from them, or consultation with them.  
Thirdly, confining the charge to myself, I may challenge you for a failing in charity, and memory. First, in charity, in that you make so ill a construction of my words both really, and personally; really interpreting the limetwig in a sense of defilement, whereas I meant it only as a let and impediment; (which may befall the deliberations of the best and wisest men) and personally, in turning the term upon the State or Parliament, in an offensive signification towards them, whom I never meant, nor mentioned with a thought or expression of disparagement. Secondly, in memory, in that you forgot a precedent passage in my Book, which might (had you remembered it) have prevented such a sinister surmise of the metaphor I used; my words which manifestly hold out a confutation of your corrupt gloss on these now in question, are these,  
Yet they cannot make that speed with the Government which by most is desired, and very much desired by themselves (as we of the Assembly can witness who have often been sent to by that Honourable Senate to quicken our work, and to ripen our debates to a full resolution) because as with us the liberty of speaking (wherein every one is frce to propose and prosecute any doubt) prolonged the Government in our hands; so the like liberty in the Honourable Honses (or rather our liberty is like theirs, it being the prototypon) longthens the debates, and delays the votes of that most Honourable Senate; and so much the more, because they are more in number than we in our Synod, and because their determinations are final as ours are not.  
But when you have made the worst sense you can of them, you come in with this allay; it may be you call your dissenting Brethren the limetwigs. I do not that neither, for I do not so confound persons and things as to mean men to be the limet wigs, but their deliberations, objections, and obstructions that step in, and keep out deciding votes, and resolutions of debates; wherein if I mean your Independent Brethren had their part, and fault, I do them no wrong; but than you make as if I wronged myself, defiling my argument with a limetwigge and be wraying our slow proceeding to have been rather of constraint than conscience; which is a me are inconsequence, for we neither endeavoured, nor desired such a precipitation of conclusions as should not admit of necessary or competent consideration, and discussion beforchund; nor such a slowness of proceeding as should wiredraw a dispute for a week or a fortnight, which would not have taken up one whole day, if there had not been some such among us as 
q Rem planam argumentatione facere dubiam. Hieron. advers. Ruffin. Tom. 2. operum p. 217.  Hierome tax●th for cavilling a clear truth into abscuritie.  
And now I have cleared myself of your imputation of disrespect to the State, or Parliament, I may rooriminate some contempt in you towards that most Honourable Assembly.  
For, First, you seem to think it a matter of praise to your partic, that 
r So in your Letter to me.  you are more on the Magistrate's side then the Magistrate on yours; as if the Magistrate were bound to tolerate your way against law, and the pence and union of Church and State, as much as you are bound to allow them their power, and authority for preservation of the public welfare.  
Secondly. In your design for Pence, (as fare as you dare) you project a way to decline the Magistrates Authority about religious matters, which an advised Reader may perceive, though your terms be very cunningly chosen, and covertly couched together, where you say, 
s Smoke. p. 4. nu. 13.  Let not abose believers who have the advantage of the Magistrate, strive to make any unwarrantable use of it one against another, because Scripture principles are not so clear for it.  
Thirdly, you for your part cast a notorious calumny upon the Parliament; calling 
t Ibid. p. 25.  the maint enance of the Ministers by Tithes undeniably jewish and Popish, which are confirmed by Ordinance of Parliament, whereof you cannot be ignorant; and it cannot be avoided if Tithes be of that nature, but that you make the Parliament Patroness of judaisme and Popery, and that is such a notorious reproach, as you should not have entertained in your most secret thoughts, nor whispered in the care of any friend, much less have proclaimed it in Print, in such peremptory terms as you have done.  
Fourthly, you give up the Magistrate's Authority to the people's liberty, leaving it in their choice to receive, or refuse Church-government, as they like or dislike it; for thus you would have it propounded unto them, 
u Smoke. p. 14.  People, here is a Government, which to some of us seemeth to be a government according to the Word of God, take it and examine it, if you be so persuaded, and if the Word of God hold it forth clearly, embrace it; if not, do not obey any thing in blind and implicit obedience; this were fair dealing with conscience. But it were foul dealing with the Magistrate, yea and the people too, for it would bring all to Anarchy and confusion, as judg. 17.6. If you say, you mean it in respect of the Assembly or Ministers, they present it not to the people until the Parliament have ratified it by their Authority; and so your meaning must be, that they should put that to the people's choice, which the Parliament hath concluded in their Votes, and imposed both on Ministers, and people by their civil Sanction; and what is this but to subject the Supreme Authority to the popular liberty?  
Smoke. Pag. 44. You say we gather out the wheat, it is well you observe we have wheat amongst us, which some of your Brethren will scarce allow ut, and you very hardly.  
Light. Truly Sr. if you came truly by your wheat I would allow it you; but though I allow that you have wheat in fact, I say you have not that wheat in right, which you have gathered out of other Churches; for your gatherings are upon the grounds of Brownism, with injury and calumny of the Churches from whence your covenanted members are collected.   

SECT. XVII. The settling of Government falsely suggested to be heretical, with an implicit reproach upon the Parliament. Of the truth of sleidan's story of the Anabaptists in Germany. A rash censure of Luther, and the Lutherans in Germany for opposing them. A caveat to England to take warning by Germany. The Ministers practise slandered, and the Magistrate dishonoured by Mr. Saltm.  
Smoke. Pag. 45. Whether may not your settling things thus be as great an heresy as you complain against? Be sparing, you may call those truths which you now call heresies. 
* See the like. p. 13.  Paul preached that Doctrine after, which before be destroyed.  
Light. What settling do you mean? the debates, and votes, and advice of the Assembly to the Parliament, (which is all they do) are no settlings of any thing; for when they are presented to them, they come under their examination again; but nothing is settled in Government, until, after their discussion and resolution, their civil Sanction be set upon it; and how should this be an heresy, as great an heresy as we complain of? we complain of all heresies, what will be the consequence of this implicit charge? can the Parliament settle heresy and not be heretics? nay worse than so, for it is fare worse to settle an heresy, and to authorize it to so many thousands as are under the power of the Parliament, then for any, or many particular persons to hold an heresy. And whereas you intimate a change of my mind, so fare as that I may be like, after the example of Paul, to preach for that Doctrine which now I destroy, I trust (not in myself, but in the support of Divine grace) that I shall always be so fare opsite or adverse unto you, until you be settled, as to be constant to the truth I have believed, and professed, while you run yourself giddy in the circle of erroneous, or heretical opinions.  
Smoke. Pag. 46. To that of the Anabaptists and Sectaries quenched by Luther's mediation you say, I have not believe your Historian, nor take all against them from the Pen of an enemy. He that takes the Parliaments Batiels from an Oxford Pon, shall read nothing but rebellion rather them religion. And me thinks I observe much here in your observation to the contrary.  
Light. You say you dare not believe my Historian against the Anabaptists, more than an Oxford Pen concerning the Battles of the Parliament, from whence you shall read nothing but Rebellion rather than Religion; as if the war of the Anabaptists were as warrantable as that of the Parliament, or john Sleydan as contemptible, and incredible a Writer as Mercurius Aulicus, or Mercurius Academicus; which makes me think you have not read Sleydan, for if you had, you would observe and acknowledge in him as many 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 of a true Historian as in most, whether of the ancient or latter Ages, and so the most judicious Protestants esteem of him; The Papists I confess undervalue him as you do, and some of them 
a Surius Preface in joh. Naucler. generat. Beruard. Dorhof. Apodeix. Calvinist. non esse Aug. Confess. c. 4. Claud. Verderii Censiones. p. 8. b.  vilify him, as if he partially inclined to the Lutheran party against the Popish; yet some of them give him the praise of a good Historian, as 
b Joh. Bod. Method. hist. c. 6. p. 48, 49.  john Bodine in his Method of history; and for the story of the Anabaptists and their fanatic fancies, and furious uproars, they are not only recorded by Sleydan, but by others, as by 
c Philip Lonicerus. Theatr. hist. p. 107, etc.  Philip Lonicerus, and by 
d Bulliuger adversus Anabapt. l. 2. c. 8, 9, 10, 11.  Bullinger in his Book against that Sect; by 
e Fred. Spanbemii Diatrib. Histor. de Orig. progress. etc. Anabaptist. in Appendice ad Clepenburgil Gangranam Anabaptist. p. 386. etc. where he citeth Luther, Melancthon, Zwingliut, Menius, & Regius. Ibid. p. 393.  Spanhemius, by 
f Courad. Heresbach. I. C. historia Anabaptist. de factione Monasterionss anno 1534. ad Erasm. Roterod. Epist. forma anno 1536. descript. excus. Amsterdam. per Henricum Laurentium.  Conradus Heresbachius, 
g Theodor. Strachii hypomnemat. & notae in illam Epist. eisdem loco & anno excus.  Theodorus Strachius, and by 
h Lambert. Hortens. lib. tumult. Ansbapt. anno 1548. Bafil. edit ●●.  Lambertus Hortensius.  
Smoke. Pag. 46. We may rather think that Germany is a field of blood to this day for shedding the blood of so many consciences for some points of difference, and for Luther's mediation against them: look well and tell me how much the Lutherans there have advanced in the reformation, have they not rather stood like joshuahs' Sun where he left them?  
Light. This again showeth that you have not read, or not well considered of the principles and practices of the Anabaptists; which were such both against God and man, as could not consist with the safety either of the Church or State; and therefore your censure of the sin and judgement of Germany, and of the Lutherans, is a presumptuous perching into God's Tribunal.  
Smoke. Pag. 46. Let England take warning by Germany.  
Light. Good counsel I confess, but not in your sense, in favour of such Sects, or fear of opposing their fancies, or stopping their proceed; but let England take warning by Germany for being too indulgent to them, upon their illusive pretences of more illumination, and spiritual communion with God, than other men enjoy.  
Smoke. Pag. 46. Let your warfare be spiritual, your weapons not carnal, put on the armour of light, and take them by a Gospel siege, and we are satisfied. But if you take them with the power of the Magistrate, with swords and staves as they took Christ; if you come in this Gospel controversy to take them as the Parliament takes in their Towns and Cities, as your instance seemer to imply, take heed left you ●●ed were spiritual blood to that under the Altar, that 〈◊〉 ceases to cry, How long Lord, how long?  
Light. If you speak this to the Ministers, their warfare is none other then spiritual; nor is the Magistrate their minister, to take Sectaries with swords or staves if their transgressions deserve it, since therein they do their own work, whereto by their office they are obliged; and when they do so, you should not so disparage the Magistrates as to match them with such wicked Officers as set upon our blessed Saviour, and with violent hands violated the Majesty and Piety of his Person; nor so honour such heretical Incendiaries, and slaughter men as those Anabaptists were, as to compare them to Christ. And for your caveat against shedding of spiritual blood, if you mean by that phrase the blood of Sectaries, or Heretics, whom some take to be more spiritual than other men, they are many of them very carnal Gospelers; and if spiritual, rather such as are led by a wicked spirit, the suggester of heretical untruths, and tempter to diabolical blasphemies, and outrages, than such as are guided by the Spirit of truth and holiness: and if by spiritual blood you mean (as the most judicious commonly use and understand the phrase) the blood of souls; it is that which engageth the Magistrates to repress heretical Teachers, for by drawing others to heresy they are guilty of the blood of souls; and they are all guilty of that blood who do not all they can, according to their place and power, to prevent the shedding of it by seducing Doctors; for zeal in this cause I have cited some lively and vigorous say of the Ancients in my former 
* Sect. 12. p. 13.  Book, to which I remit you.  
Smoke. Pag. 46. So as you will have an hazard run both in State and Church for a new experiment upon the Ministers; but sure your Statists will tell you it is not safe trying experiments with States, they are too vast bodies for that; what think you of that Physician who will cast his Patient into a disease to try a cure on him? you know the old moral Adage, Turpius ejicitur quam non admittitur hospes.  
light. To your exception we have not yet any experience of our new Clergy, my 
a Examination of the New Querie. Sect. 10. p. 32.  Answer was, Then they cannot yet be charged with misgovernment of the people; and how can there be experience of them, if there be no Government to try them withal? but we have experience of much evil for want of Government, as 
b Ibid.  I told you before. And for that you say, your Statists will tell you it is not safe trying experience with States, which you illustrate by a similitude of a Physician casting his Patient into a disease to try a cure on him: I like it very well in those, and being rightly applied it makes much against you, and the toleration you plead for, for we have found it by woeful experience, that some politic Mountebanks have made a perilous experiment upon our State by connivance at, and pressing for a toleration of many erroneous, and some very heretical Sects; the cure whereof the longer it is delayed will be more difficult and more dangerous to the souls of the people, in whom error and heresy spread, and eat like a canker, or gangrene as in the Greek, 2 Tim. 2.17.   

SECT. XVIII. The Toleration desired by Mr. Saltm. neither safe nor sound, opposite to the mind of Paul, 1 Cor. 1.10. Gal. 5.10.12. Of the comparison of the two ambitious Brethren to ten more humble and moderate; The Presbytery not proved by Magistrates, though approved by them; Of the pretended truth of Sectaries, and of the prescription of Bishops and Independents.  
Smoke. Pag. 47. I Would there were more such, (that is, such as would give full scope and liberty to multiplicity of sects) I am sure it is safest, and soundest; It is safest, for there is no such danger in that of crucifying Christ in ignorance, or fight against God; and soundest, for so they die out most naturally by their own unsoundness, without noise and commotion.  
Light. In this you have delivered a most unsafe, and unsound paradox, which is disproved by the experience of former ages, and foreign parts; but most of all by that of our own Kingdom within these four years last passed: witness Mr. Edward's his last Book the Gangrene, which if you were so unpatiall and patiented, as to read without prejudice or passion, you could not patiently review your own writing in this particular.  
Smoke. Pag. 47. Oppose with words, as Paul did, but not with sword, and turning the edge of authority against us.  
light. In this you are opposite to Paul and yourself both; to Paul, who expressly presseth to union in mind, in judgement, in speech; 1 Cor. 1.10. and wisheth them cut off who trouble the Church, Gal. 5.12. whereas you would have sects to be left to themselves: and to yourself; whereas before you would have them let alone, to die out most naturally without noise, now you would have them opposed with words, as Paul did; but can there be words of opposition without any noise? And for that you say against the coercion or execution by the sword, it is impertinently proposed to the Presbytery, who take not upon them to turn the edge of authority any way; and prejudicial to the prudence and power of Magistrates, as if they knew not when to use it, unless they were admonished and moved by others unto it, or might not use it against disturbers of the public peace of Church and State.  
Smoke. Pag. 48. But how came you by such plenty (as ten) of the better sort for two of the worse?  
Light. There meeds none other answ, to this quest. then to repeat your words and mine aright: Yourself said 
* See my Examination of the New Querie. Sect. 10. p. 34.  I question not but some Presbyterians may be like the ten, yet there are others like the two brethren, who strive who should be the greatest. To which mine Answer is, If we keep the proportion you brought in, and make application accordingly, we may say, for two ambitious Presbyterians it is like there may be ten that are more modestly and humbly minded, then to affect such a preeminence above their brethren.  
Smoke. Pag. 48. Indeed you are able to prove by the Magistrate that Presbytery is some of it Christ's way, that is an argument of power, not of Scripture.  
Light. How fare the Presbyterial government is Christ's way is sufficiently set forth by the forecited Author, who hath professedly handled it; but who I pray you offers to prove by the Magistracy that the Presbytery is Christ's way? they may prove it to the Magistrate, but to do it by the Magistrate, is neither undertaken, nor required by any.  
Smoke. Pag. 49. We had rather be a few with truth, than a multitude against it.  
Light. If that were your mind, you would rather close with Presbyterians, whom you cannot deny to be sound and Orthodox in all matters of faith, and godliness, then with so many extravagant Sectaries, who are so contradictory both to the Scripture, and to themselves, in their opposite Tenets, that there must needs be very much untruth in their Tenets.  
Smoke. Pag. 50. The Bishops had a better prescription even by Law for their Government then we: (i) then Independents.  
But how is this? is a legal prescription better hold the a Gospel prescription?  
Light. In this and some lines next following you take that for granted, which we cannot yield, nor can you ever prove, viz. that your Independency is purely Evangelicall; which if you can make good (but the Texts you have crowded together at the end of your opening of Mr. Prinnes Vindication will not do it) you shall make me of your Religion, when you let me know which it is you will choose, and stand to when you have chosen.   

SECT. XIX. Of the pretended modesty and humility of the Independents, by way of comparison with the Presbyterians.  
Smoke. Pag. 50. But there is one Government set up already, a Civil, Parliamentary Government, and will you set up another above that, or  with it? will you set up one government to rule another, or tutor another?  
Light. And if your Independent Government were set up, which you account an Evangelicall and Scripture Government, Christ's golden Sceptre, Christ upon his Throne, should that Government be above the Civil Government, or coordinate with it? would you set up this government to rule the other, or tutor the other? when you have answered these Queries put upon Independency, you will see it will not be difficult to answer the like concerning Presbytery; yet it is evident to all that make any serious observation on both ways, that the Presbyterial Government is more moderate, more subordinate to the Parliamentary Government than the Independent, because that is humbly submitted to the debate of the Parliament for approbation of it, and waiteth for their Civil establishment before any part of it is put into execution and practice, the Independent Government (in this respect Independent on the Parliament, as well as on Classical, Provincial, and Nationall Assemblies) comes under no such trial of them, but is set up without any authority from them.  
Smoke. Pag. 50. And must you needs set up as large a dominion as the civil power hath? must your Presbytery be as ample, as high, as supreme as the Parliament? will no less territory or kingdom serve it, but all England, whole Nations? must Christ's government be just as long, as broad as the worlds?  
Light. Here is a great deal of aggravating Rhetoric, to bring in a suspicion of a vast, and unlimited domination of the Presbytery; and I pray you, Sr, if Independency were the Parliaments darling, as you desire it, would nor you wish it, and, if you could, procure it to be set up in every City and Town in England? would not you that think it a good government, the best government, advance your good opinion of it, & well-wishings to it, according to the maxim, Bonum que communius, comelius? Every good thing the more common, the more commendable? We observe your sedulity in spreading your opinions into remote regions, and cannot but conceive, by your zeal and activity for your cause, that you are ambitious, like the Spaniard, to enlarge your Religion, as he his Dominions; whereof 
* Myraeus Comment. de bello Bohemic. p. 7.  Myraeus saith, that the Sun never sets, but always shines in some place or other where he reigns.  
Smoke. Pag. 50. Now Reader judge which government affects dominion? which brings in whole nations under the sceptre of it? poor Scripture government can be content to sit down in a village; To the Church in thy house, saith the Spirit; in a City, as Corinth; and over but a few there, the Saints only in fellowship; to the Church in Corinth, in a Country, not over a Country; To the seven Churches in Asia, not of Asia; not the Church of Asia, or the Church Asia, a Church taking in half part of the world.  
Light. And let the Reader judge how much of roving fancy and fond affection, how little judgement is in this paragraph. Which Government, say you, affects dominion? etc. speak properly Sir, and the truth will better appear, and be more ready for sentence and judgement, and then your question will be; which sort of those that stand for Government (for the government as abstracted from them hath no affections at all) affect dominion more? You say poor Scripture government can be content to sit down in a village, to the Church in thy house, etc. where you assume and presuppose (which I deny) that Independency is a government either poor or pure according to the Scriptures. And for Independent Ministers when you see them so placed in the City, in the chief City of the Kingdom, culling out of men's charges the fairest and fattest of their flocks to be the materials and members of their new-gathered Churches, and so ordering their Sermons, and covenanting with their hearers, that they have the most populous congregations, all sects coming to hear them, and adhering to them as to their Patrons, who will not come to the Sermons of the most Orthodox and able Preachers of the Presbyterial way;  
When you know, or may know that most of them are eminently richer than other Ministers, how can you, how dare you brag of the humility, and poverty of Independency sitting down contented with a village? especially, when none of those who set up Independency in England planted themselves in a village, except in vicinity to some great City where they might have the profit, and comfort, and the best accommodations of City and Country?  
And for the small Church in a house, or a particular City, in a Country, not over a Country, in Asia, not the Church of Asia; This makes no more for Independency then for Presbytery, when there were too few professing the faith to be sorted into Congregations Classical, Provincial and Nationall Assemblies; and so your instance cannot be a fit pattern for these times, wherein the profession of the Gospel is received all over the Kingdom.   

SECT. XX. Whether Christ, if he would have a national comprehensive Church, was bound to have begun the practice of it over whole Kingdoms, as Mr. Saltm. saith; and whether importeth more pride, to desire a subordination of Assemblies, Parochial, Classical, etc. then to be adverse to it.  
Smoke. Pag. 50, 51. Sure if Christ would have had such a national comprehensive Church, he would have converted Kings and Princes first, and they should have given up their Kingdoms to jesus Christ in the way of a Presbyterian.  
Light. To this I oppose your own words, both in your 
a New Querie repeated in my Examination. Sect. 12. p. 38.  Querie and in your Smoke, in both which places, you tell your Reader that the publication of the Gospel and the proposal of Church government were brought in at distance: heresies, say you, might have grown from john's first Sermon to Paul's Epistles, and the sending of the Spirit, but you see there was no government settled till afterwards upon the people of Gods and in your last you tell me, that 
b Smoke. p. 54.  you shown me that no government began with the Gospel manifestation, by which (say you) I made it appear, that if government had been of such moral necessity, why was it not given out with the Gospel's first giving out?  
Albeit then the Gospel began not with the conversion of Kings and whole Kingdoms, yet the progress of it hath been so prosperous as to prevail so fare, and with the extent of it, may the government of the Gospel be extended also, and it may be set up after it, by your own confession rather than with it.  
Smoke. Pag. 51. Nay it ought to have been so, jesus Christ was bound in the way of righteousness, to have begun the practice and model to us over whole Kingdoms, having not left it in precept in the whole Gospel; and we ought either to have practice or precept to order and command us in what we obey.  
Light. What? aught Christ, or was he bound in the way of righteousness to begin the Gospel with conversion of Kings, and whole Kingdoms, if he meant to have such a Nationall and comprehensive Church as the Presbyterians plead for? was he not free to begin the publication of it where he pleased, in the wilderness of judea, rather than in the City jerusalem? and to whom he pleased, to Shepherds in the field, rather than to Augustus in the Court?  
If it had begun there; First, It might have been suspected as a Politic devise, like that which 
c Machiav. disp. lib. 1. cap. 11. p. 63.  Machiavelli commends in Romulus and Numa, setting up religion by feigned revelation.  
Secondly, Then the Doctrine of the Gospel, condemned as folly by supercilious and secular wise men, 1 Cor. 1.23. had not appeared so wise and powerful as it was, vers. 18, 19, 20. of the same Chapter; nor,  
Thirdly, Had it had so many illustrious confirmations, both by miracles, and martyrdoms, as we find upon record both in the Scriptures, and Ecclesiastical Histories.  
And was it not in his own choice to make his own pace for the proceeding both of Gospel and Government? If you will so confine Christ to your ways of working, you make him Dependent, while you claim an Independent privilege to yourself.  
And for that you say, for practice or precept, to order and command us in what we obey, we have both in the Gospels of our Saviour, and Epistles of the Apostles, and the History of their Acts, (according to which the Assembly have given up their advice to the Parliament) warrant for Church Government, and so we hope it will come down from them by a Parliamentary approbation, and constitution for the establishment thereof throughout the whole Kingdom. And yet is not the Presbyterial Government more ambitious, or domineering then the Independent; Nay, let the Indifferent Reader observe, and consider the difference, and let him then resolve, whether the Presbyterian or Independent be more affected to preeminence, or more willing to come under rule and government.  
First, The Presbyterians earnestly desire the union, whereto the Apostle emphatically exhorteth the Christian Corinthians; Now I beseech you brethren, by the Name of our Lord jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you, but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgement, 1 Cor. 1.10.  
Secondly, This union cannot be without a rule of consent; the rule of consent cannot be of any force, unless it have the power and obligation of a law; this law requireth, as well subordination, as union; and this subordination is agreeable not only to reason, but to Religion and Scripture, for the spirits of the Prophets are subject to the Prophets, 1 Cor. 14.32.  
Thirdly, The Presbyterians, who yield to this subordination, especially to the Superior Assemblies, not knowing, and the most of them not expecting to be members either of Provincial, or Nationall Assemblies, do all of them in their allowance of gradual appeals submit themselves to the consures of others, which is an act not of dominion, but of subjection. But the Independents will be as diffusive in their Churchway, and grow on from Cities to Countries, from Countries to Kingdoms, and will be like little Kings, or Free States in their own Congregations, and will admit of no subordination, or submission to any Ecclesiastical Assembly whatsoever, though there be many cases which reach, beyond the limits of their covenanted meetings, to occasions of common concernment to many Churches; yea some of them are so comprehensive, as to belong to all the Churches of a Kingdom, which can neither be sufficiently considered, nor ordered for the general good, without a more general convention and consultation of Church governor's.  
The Pope, though hated and scorned by you as an Antichristian Caiaphas, is a great, and I may say the supreme Independent in the Christian world; and his Independency consisteth in this, that he will be judged of none; and herein truly Sr. you symbolise too much with the Papal ambition; in that as much as you can you free yourselves from all Ecclesiastical subjection; and this being a chief part of his Antichristian exaltation, Independency is rather Antichristian, than Presbytery.  
There is another part of the Papal pride, which is to require that all be subject unto him that he may censure and judge of all; and if I should strain your words, as you sometimes do mine. I should say you are flown so high in your fancy, as to be got above the high pitch of the Pope's Mitre; for he took not upon him to judge, or give laws to Christ (though to all Christians) as you do, where you say that Christ ought, and was bound in the way of righteousness to have begun the practice and model to us over whole Kingdoms, etc.   

SECT. XXI. Mr. Saltm. his mistake touching the building of the Temple. Of the difference of the pattern of the Temple and the pattern of the Government of the Gospel. Mr. Saltm. confusedly jumbleth them together.  
Smoke. Pag. 52. TO the difference I made of the material and Gospel pattern you say nothing, and that is the only considerable. It may be, as you said of me, you are best able to deal with the other.  
Light. I confess I passed over somewhat in your Quere, more in your last Book, but nothing in either wherein I conceived there was any thing of weight, or pertinency to the cause in difference betwixt us. Yet to that difference 
a Sect. 11. p. 37.  I said something in its proper place, and 
b Sect. 5. p. 16, 17.  referred you to another Section where I observed more differences than you brought in; and whether I own you any thing for that particular, the Reader shall judge; and if he find I was in your debt, he shall see I shall make ready payment of what is behind; and it may be by that time I have done with your objection, you will think it better you had taken no notice of this omission, then occasioned me to make such an amends for it as now I must do.  
In the last lease of your Quere, when you had brought in your reasons for retarding the Government, you bring in two objections, and make Answers to them; the former is this, 
c New Quere. p. 7. Ob. 1.  But the Temple was builded with all speed in Nehemiahs' time, and Haggai calls to the building, Is it time, etc. Hag. 1.4.  
Before I bring in my Reply to your Answer, I must mind you of a mistake in your single sheet; which though it be but short is liable to a very just exception for an error in Story; and you should have heard of it sooner from me, but that I observed it not myself until I found I was misguided by your allegation; for I took it upon trust from you, because I did not suspect you would misalledge any thing, which did no way conduce unto your cause, as the time of the building of the Temple doth not; now though the error were originally yours, the correction may be mine, which you may better receive from me, than I might take misprision from you; you say the Temple was built in Nehemiahs' time, but the truth is it was not, as you affirm, built in, but before Nehemiahs' time, for the foundation of it was laid in the second year of Darius, Hag. 2.10.17. (i) in the year of the world 3452. 519 years before the Incarnation of Christ; and it was finished in the sixth year of Darius, Ezra 6.15. that is, in the year of the world 3456. 515 years before Christ's Incarnation; but that building of Nehemiah was the building of the walls of Jerusalem, Nehem. 2.17, 18, 19 and this was in the year of the world, 3527. about 444. years before the birth of the Messiah; this work about the walls was a work but of 52. days, Nehem, 6.15. the former about the Temple lasted about 4. years, as from the Scriptures forealledged may be inferred.  
Now for your Answer it is this, Yea but the material pattern was more clearly left, and known then the Gospel patterns, the other were more in the letter, and these more in the spirit; now there must be a proving of all things, else there may be more haste then good speed, as the Temple may be built by a false pattern as well as by a true; and then better no building then no right Cedar to build withal.  
This is all for which you challenge my silence; and whereas you intimate some solidity in it, which I was not so well able to deal with, as with the other part of your Answer: Truly Sr. I neither had, nor have any such opinion of it; it seemed to me at first, and it doth so now upon the review, to be an intricate, perplexed, and confused jumbling of Metaphorical, and literal expressions together; and not more dark for lack of light, then weak for want of strength to that purpose for which it was framed: and therefore I thought it more fit for a tacit preterition, then for an express examination. But if you will have this rather, you shall have it; and so I say unto it,  
First, that if the pattern were more clear for building the Temple, than the Gospel pattern for the setting up of a Church-Government, why are you so confident, and peremptory, and punctual for your Gospel pattern?  
Secondly, Why tell you us of Gospel patterns in the plural number? is there any more than one pattern of Government in the Gospel? if so, though the Independent pattern be yielded to be a Gospel pattern, (which cannot be proved) the Presbyterian may be so too, for if there be more than one, that rather than any other may be allowed to be another.  
Thirdly, when you say the other were more in the letter, these more in the spirit, what is your meaning by these words? were there more forms and patterns of the Temple than one? if there were, why do you not speak more clearly to the point of difference, betwixt them? if not, why say you they were more in the letter? and when you say these Gospel patterns are more in the spirit; I would know whether they be written, or not written; if they be written, they are as much in the letter as the other; if they be not written, how can you tell they be Gospel patterns?  
Fourthly, whereas you say, The Temple may be builded by a false pattern, if you mean it of the material Temple, you deny the clearness of the pattern which before you professed. And,  
Fifthly, When you say, The Temple may be builded by a false pattern, as well as by a true, if you mean it of the material Temple in Ezra's time, what is that to the Gospel Government, in, or since our Saviour's time? or if any thing, it is to contradict yourself, who make the Temple pattern so clear that there is no danger of a false pattern of misguidance. If you mean it of the Government of the Gospel, why do you so confound what in the beginning of your Answer to the Objection you pretend to distinguish, to wit, the material Temple and the Evangelicall order of the Church?  
Lastly, whereas you say, Better no building at all then no right Cedar to build withal, what's your meaning by this metaphor? Cedar was the matter to build with, not the pattern whereby the building was to be form, and set together; which was the thing, whereof you would make the Reader believe you made a fit comparison, and shown a material difference why the building of the Temple might be hastened in Ezra's time, and yet the setting up of Government should be delayed in our time; for which you have said nothing either to declare, or assure what you took upon you to illustrate, and make good unto your Reader, whom I require now again to judge betwixt us, whether this passage of your Quere were not better omitted by me, then remembered by you, to put me to make such an Answer unto it as I have done.   

SECT. XXII. Of staying for the Spirit to give light of instruction to the reformation of the Church.  
Smoke. Pag. 52. IS not that a very Gospel way to stay for the Spirits coming into the servants of the Lord? take heed of denying inspired disciples, you know it is a part of the fulfilling of the great Prophecy, Act. 2. Indeed some of the Prelates, many of them being uninspired themselves, and having little of the spirit or none, would needs say therefore that all inspirations and spiritual enlightenings, were ended in the Church, because ended in them; and because they were so carnal themselves, they thought none was spiritual; and you remember how they made laws even against the spirit in prayer.  
Light. First, I confess it is a Gospel way to stay for the spirits coming into the servants of the Lord; the Apostles were commanded by our Saviour not to departed from jerusalem, but to wait there for the promise of the Father, Act. 1.4. and they did so, and there the Holy Ghost came upon them, Act. 2.3. And so the Prophecy of joel of pouring out the spirit in the last days, joel 2.28. was fulfilled, and is so implied by Peter, Act. 2. vers. 16, 17.  
Secondly, by the last days is not to be understood our present Age, 1645 years after our Saviour's first coming, and God knows how many before his second coming; by the last days may be understood not precisely those which are next to the world's end, but after times; as in the prophecy of jacob, Gen. 19.1. which sometimes may be further, as in that of jacob and joel, sometimes nearer hand, as the Prophecy of Peter that there should come in the last day's scoffers, 2 Pet. 2.3. which was fulfilled, and so is recorded in the last of the Apostolical Epistles, for in the 17. & 18. verses of judes' Epistle, saith he, Beloved remember the words which were spoken before of the Apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ, how that they told you there should be mockers in the last times, who should walk after their own ungodly lusts; but the days of the Gospel are called the last times, because after that is brought forth we must look for no more changes of Religion, and the manner of God's worship, as there was before in Moses time from what was in use before with the Patriarches, and since Christ's time from the Ceremonials of Moses.  
Thirdly, though I do not nor dare put limits to the Spirit, which is free as the wind that bloweth where it listeth, joh. 3.8. and do acknowledge and bless God for it that there is 〈◊〉 spirit of grace and supplications, Zach. 1●. 10. poured out upon many of God's people; and not only upon Preachers, but also upon divers others which are not: and that it was a wicked part in divers of the Prelates (for all on my knowledge were not guilty of it) to stint the Ministers of the Gospel, as they did by the 〈◊〉 form in their Conan, which was rather a bidding invitation to prayer, than a prayer it self.  
Yet fourthly, since the Apostle Paul foretells of the later times, that there shall be 〈◊〉 spirits, and dectrines of Devils, speaking lies in hypocrisy, 1 Tin●. 4.1.12. and John the Apostle gives a caveat against credulity in this case, Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they be of God, 1 joh. 4.1. and that Christians are admonished to try all things, 1 Thes. 5.21. and the Church of Ephesus is commended for trying those who said they were Apostles and were not, and found them lyors, Revel. 2.2. and the trial is to be made by the law, and by the testimony of the Scripture; and if they speak not according to this, it is because there is no light in them, Esa. 20.8. And since I have read of many horrid and abominable things committed upon pretence of revelation of the spirit;  
Lastly, since the Government of the Church is not a matter of private inspiration, but of public direction, and use to the whole Church, and that the Word of God, as a standing ru●e, is to give us directions in Gospel dispensations, I dare not expect where that speaks nothing, that the defect will be made out, or made up with the whisper of a private spirst, especially against the concurrent judgement of the most Orthodox Divines of the Reformed Churches.   

SECT. XXIII. Of expedition or delay in setting up of Government; Whether Moses and Christ, the jewish and Christian state be so contrary, that there is no conformity between them.  
Smoke. Pag. 54. ANd now after all this discourse and ravelings out of time from john's Sermon, etc. what have you gained, not that the Government was so one 〈◊〉 the● you have proved much to my advantage, and a clourer and fuller computation than I did the contrary; so as you have been taking some learned pains, if you well observe, and the Reader will observe you, to prove that the Government as first was not suddenly cast into a 〈◊〉, or brought forth in practice, which is the very thing I aimed at: and truly your pains in it have been more than mine, and I thank you for it.  
Light. I must recall you to our former intercourse to give light for the clearing this exception; 
a New Quere. p. 7.  you bring in a second Objection against the delay of it thus: But vica, beresies and sehismes grew too fast, and you answer it thus: 
b Ibid. p. 8.  so they might have done from john's first Sermon to Paul's Epistles, and the sending of the Spirit, but yet you see there was no Government till after settled upon the people of God. And not showing how long after, I calculated the time for you; and you are pleased in the end of the precedent Paragraph to commend my pains as more exact than yours, and to thank me for it; but yet withal you make as if I had ravelled into time to prove your Tenet against mine own, wherein I shall easily disprove you. For you brought in the putting off the government from john Baptists time until Paul's Epistles, and the sending of the Spirit; (where you confusedly shuffle things together, which should be carefully distinguished) and if you mean it of the time from 
c See mine Examine. of the New Quere. p. 39  john's preaching to the pouring out of the Spirit at the Feast of Pentecost, it is but five years; if to the first of Paul's Epistles, but 21; if to the last, 29 years; and before the end of that Epistle that Government was written which we find in Scripture. Now take which of these times you will, and compare it to our time and State, and it will not serve for any cause or ground of adjournment, or putting off the Church Government to a further Date, as you would have it.  
For, if that Government which the Scripture hath laid down be offered to acceptation, and establishment, shall we take 29 year's time, or 21 year's time, or 5 year's time before we will admit of it? especially since we have been for many years together conversant in the Scriptures, where it is founded, and have had the practice of it exemplified unto us in many Reformed Churches for 100 years together; so that though 5, or 21, or 29 years, were to be taken for a long time in respect of the first age of the Church, before the government of it was settled upon the people of God, (and yet it was but a while, the progress of the Gospel duly weighed) it makes nothing for the delay of Government you drive at: and so disappointing your purpose, which was out of that instance to make some show for the slackness in Government which you desire, I pleaded not your cause, but the truths, and mine own in prosecution of it against your exception. I shall be willing in some other way to do you a courtesy, and to deserve your thanks, but expect not I should be so unfaithful, or fickle, or simple, as to desert the defence I have undertaken, or so to manage it, as to give mine adversary advantage by it.  
Smoke. Pag. 55. For that of old Elyes indulgence which you speak 〈◊〉, you are still looking upon Moses, though you tell us of Christ; make the Kingdom of Israel and of England the same, a jewish and a Christian State the same, and then we shall allow you both Elyes sin, and his son's maintenance by tithes and offerings.  
Light. Having cited the example of old Ely, against indulgence to such as reproach and scandalise Religion, especially against toleration of blasphemers, as Paul Best, who made blasphemous verses against the Trinity; you tell me, I am still looking upon Moses, though I tell you of Christ; you mean by like that I am still upon mine Annotations on the Pentateuch, but they are printed a good while since; and I do not think you have often found me looking upon Moses, since I had occasion to look upon you as an adversary; but if you looked upon him oftener, and understood him better, I believe you would be a more sound and Orthodox Divine then as yet I can account you.  
It is the manner of the Antinomians (of whose impious and pernicious opinions, some of your writings have a strong savour) to show their slight of Moses upon all occasions; But Sir, though his Ceremonials be abolished, his Indicials not established in Christian Commonwealths, (yet for some penal laws, I think we should be better governed if they were more Mosaical) yet his face still shines, and shall do to the end of the world, in the piety, equity, regularity, and utility of the Moral Law, which he brought from the Mount.  
After your reproof of me you appoint me a task, and make me a promise; the task is, that I must make the Kingdom of Israel and of England the same, a jewish and a Christian State the same; Why I pray you, Sir, must I make them all one, because I bring an example of Caution out of the Old Testament? neither upon that ground, nor your command do I find myself obliged to such an undertaking; nor is it any man's work so to compare or resemble them as to make them the same, since they do, and of necessity must differ in many things; and though they differ much, yet in divers things they do agree likewise, as the Apostle showeth in part, 1 Cor. 10.1, 2, 3; 4. and that their sins and punishments should be warnings to us (for which purpose I cited old Elyes case) he showeth by many examples out of the Old Testament, from vers. 5. to the 11; was it the Apostles duty (having so done) to undertake a proof of the paritle or identity of the Corinthian or Christian and the jewish State?  
Now if I make good this, you promise to allow me both Elyes sin, and his son's maintenance by tithes and offerings; but I will not take you at your word, for this liberal offer; keep Elyes sin to yourself if you please; and since I know you are displeased with Tithes, put them upon me, and I will either prove them lawful, and I think I have done it already; or give them up as you have done.   

SECT. XXIIII. Truth not to be parted with for peace, the Magistrate dishonoured, and the Presbyterians slandered by Mr. Saltm.  
Smoke. Pag. 55. YOu would prove truth to be precious to the disadvantage of peace, and therefore you bring in the Fathers against the Arrians, and no against the Papists, and Christ against Peace; but what, would you prove that truth ought to be established against peace, and peace to be no way to truth? surely, truth and peace do meet together, nay they are so much one, 〈◊〉 there is even a truth in peace.  
Light. In your exception against the example of Ely; you play the Antinomian, in this and the next ensuing paragraph you take up the Tenet of the Anabaptists against the lawfulness of war, though not theirs only, for some of the Fathers, and some famous Papists have been of that opinion, but I find you not much versed in the writings of the Fathers, and very averse from the opinions of the Papists, and but too kind and complying in conceit with Anabaptists, therefore I suppose a symbolising rather with them then with either of the other Sects; whereto I would make a return, and that return should be a refutation of that fancy, but that I have done it in print already, in 
a In my Sermon of the Fury of war and folly of sin, p. 10. ad 15.  my Sermon before the Honourable House of Commons, April. 26. 1645.  
Smoke. Pag. 56. You say there will be work for the Magistrate enough to punish the contumacious, etc.  
That is in English, the Presbytery will keep the Magistrate doing; and now who disparage the Magistrates? who set them on work? who make them their Deputy punishers? nay who is the Satante whom the excommunicate are delivered? it is an expression not much besldes your principles; and who disparages the Magistrate in that?  
Light. A little before you pleaded too much for peace, and now you would break the peace, and play the makebate betwixt the Magistracy and the Presbytery, and to that purpose you make crooked consequences from right words, and upright intentions, that you may at last put the name of Satan upon the Magistrate in the name of a Presbyter; but take heed Sir, lest some say (though I do not) you deserve the other name of that Arch-malignant, viz. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, to be returned upon you, which is a fit title for a false accuser, and so used by the Apostle, 2 Tim. 3.3. For how could you with truth, ingenuity, or charity, make such deductions as you do from my words, in Answer to yours? you say, (to make the Presbyterial Government needless,) 
b New Quere. p. 8.  If moral transgressions stir, let the Magistrate be set on in every place. I ask, 
c Sect. 12. p. 41. of mine Exam.  set out by whom? and how? Doth he mean that the Magistrate is as a shepherd's dog, to be set on the wolf that cometh to make spoil of the flock? we cannot have so mean a thought of the Magistrate, as to make mention of him in such terms of disparagement. Neither dare we take upon us, either so much interest in all Magistrates, or so much power in any, as to give them the watchword when to draw the sword, and to expect that they should wield it as we would have them. And not withstanding the preaching of the Presbyters, and exercise of the Presbytery, there will be work enough for the Magistrate to bring them under a civil trial, etc.  
Are these words capable of such a gloss as you make of them, that the Presbytery will keep the Magistracy doing, and now who disparages the Magistrates? who sets them a work? Not the Presbyterians, but you, and your party rather; for your words are, Let them be set on. Who makes them Deputy punishers? Not the Presbyterians, who take no such power upon them as to appoint them to punish any one; nor (if they do punish) account them Deputies to any, but doers of their own work. Nay, who is the Satan, to whom the excommunicate are delivered? The Magistrate, as you imply, and impose that reproach upon Presbyterians; For you say, it is an expression not fare beside your principles, and who disparages the Magistrate in that? But stay good Sir, what Presbyterians expound those words of delivery unto Satan, 1 Corinth. 5.5. 1 Tim. 1.20. with an application to the Magistrate? neither Calvin, Beza, Marl●rat, Piscator, Deodate, nor 
d In his late Book against Erastus cap. 11. q. 7. pag. 354, 355.  Mr. Rutherford, nor any Presbyterian that ever I read, make the Magistrate the Devil in these Texts; no nor Vatablus nor Aquinas, of the Popish Church; and I think it will be hard for you to find any Author of note, of what Religion so ever, that so takes, or rather mistakes the words as you do; and impossible to produce any Presbyterian principles, which with any colour or probability may be drawn, or by any violence and importunity be dragged to such a sense of disparagement of the Magistrate, as you have suggested; and so the calumny and contempt of their calling must be laid at your door, to father it as an ill-favoured brat of your own begetting.   

SECT. XXV. The Magistrate's assistance to the Ecclesiastical Government, no argument to prove it no Gospel Government; the sword of God and of Gideon, of Church Discipline, and civil severity, how lawful and useful; zeal against toleration of evil commended connivance at it .  
Smoke. Pag. 57 YOu say you cannot divide discipline from his assistance who can make it effectual, that is, from the Magistrate, this is a sign without further argument, that you do not hold your government for Christ's, because it cannot be effectual of itself without help below.  
Light. Here as in many other places you show little ingenuity in repeating my words, which are not as you cite them; but thus, 
e Examination of the New Quere. Sect. 12. pag. 42.  We cannot think it meet to divide subservient means from the supreme power, nor the exercise of Discipline, and government from his Assistance who can make it effectual, that is, (say you) from the Magistrate; and that is, say I, your maledicta glossa which corrupts the Text; my words import not the inferior efficacy of the Magistrate, but the superior of God; and therefore your inference upon it is a second injury, and violence you commit against my saying and sense; and yet though the Discipline be Christ's, we must crave the consent and sanction of the Civil Magistrates, that we may put it in practice, as the Presbyterians of the Dutch and French Churches in London; and with their assistance it may be more effectual then without it it can be, as the Magistrates antheritie may have a more awful operation upon the people if assisted by the Ministers in their Sermons, and popular exhortations; and yet you will not deny but that Magistracy is the ordinance of God, Rom. 13.1.  
Smoke. Pag. 57 Nor is the sword of God and Gideon any fair, or just proof for joining Presbytery and Magistracy, it only joins God and the Magistrates.  
Light. I join the sword of God and Gideon, not as a proof for uniting Presbytery and Magistracy, but as an illustration of association of different means to the same end, or of concurrent operations to the same purpose; and yet if the cause of God in the hands of the Presbytery do need, and have aid in the hand of the Magistrate to help it forward, there the sword of the Spirit, which is the sword of the Lord, in the mouth of his Ministers, and the sword of Gideon, that is, the sword of the Magistrate, may be said to be joined.  
Smoke. Pag. 57 You say your godly it alousie will set up as many securities as may be. But then they are warrantable and Gospel ways of security; that is no godly jealousy which sets up other ways, as Herod killing all the young children to secure his kingdom, David dissembling to escape, jacob to get a blessing.  
Light. To that you said; 
f New Quere. pag. 8.  It is the Papists and Prolates jealousy to keep up their supposed truths by suspecting every thing that appears for an enemy: My Answer was; 
g Examination of the New Quere. Sect. 12. pag. 42.  There is a jealousy which the Apostle cal● godly jealousy, and such a one is that which would set up as many securities as may be against heresy, and impiety; among them Church-government is one; of which, they that stand for it are not afraid to let it go● abread, but have made it public, and exposed it to the view of all eyes. To this you put in a Reply with a condition of warrantable and Gospel ways of security, and an exception of wicked ways, such as Herod's killing all the young children, etc. I instanced only in the Church-government, which the Presbyterians propound, and plead for as a Gospel way; you bring in Herod's bloody business, as if there were near consanguinity betwixt the Presbytery and his barbarous cruelty; this is (though not to slay innocents' as he did yet) to wound and blast innocence, as much as may be, and to bring it under an evil suspicion to make it odious; this is no Gospel way Mr. Sa●●m. but a very wide aberration from it.  
Smoke. Pag. 57 You say that some fear God's anger for communion with heretics, etc. you know all such fear is only warrantable in the Church, not in the world; you have liberate to withdraw and separate, as they from you; if it be national or civil communion, than you pluck up the tares before the time of harvest.  
Light. You still give me cause to complain of your unfaithful dealing with my words, by such alteration, or omission of them as may make them more obvious to your exception, then as I set them down, for they are thus in my Book; 
a Exam. of the New Quere. Sect. 12. p. 43.  But there is it fear which we profess, and I hope without offence, it is a fear of God's anger, and of imminent danger for communion with, and connivance towards heretical and wicked men; and I brought examples, and say of John the Evangelist, of Polycarpe, Hilary, and Jerome to that purpose, which you take no notice of at all; but say, such fear is only warrantable in the Church, not in the world; but for that there is a remedy that men may separate from Church-Communion; but what if many will not, as the weaker and loser sort are as ready to run to heretical Teachers, where they exercise, as the people of Israel to the Idolamous worship of the golden Calves; and shall such be suffered to 〈◊〉 them that through the ignorance of their minds, or unruliness of then lusts are willing to be seduced? Will your conscience with the Papists tolerate the Stews, not in the Church, but in the City? it is not so broad, nor lose I hope; no more should it be so indulgent as to allow of inducements to spiritual whoredom, 
〈…〉  which is as dangerous to men, and more dishonourable to God: The Angel of the Church of Ephesus, I am sure, is commended by the Holy Ghost because he could not bear them which were evil, Revel. 2.2. and for h●ting the deeds of the Nicolaitans, vers. 6. as on the contrary the Angel of the Church of P●●ga●●● is blamed for suffering such as held the Doctrine of Bala●m, and those that held the Doctrine of the Nicolaitans, vers. 12.14, 15. and so is the Angel of the Church of Thyatir● for suffering the woman J●●●bal, which ●●lleth herself a Prophetess, to teach and seduce the servants of the Lord, vers. 18.20. and if such seducement may be as dangerous to many where heretics teach in corners, as where they are admitted to officiate in public Churches, that must be no more endured than the other.  
And for that you say of plucking up the tares before the harvest, it makes nothing against the caution I mean, which is not to extirpate all heretics out of the world, but to put such a restraint upon them, that they may not have power to seduce simple souls to such pernicious errors as may endanger them upon eternal damnation; and yet I hope you do not mean but some wicked men may be so wicked, and so destructive in their principles and practices to Religion, and States, that it may be lawful not only to keep, or put them out of all Church-Communion, but to take them quite out of all communion in the world, by capital punishment, else you will have the Civil Magistrate to bear the Sword for naught, against the determination of the Apostle, Rom. 13.   

SECT. XXVI. Mr. Saltm. his dangerous supposition of equality of Number and power, with diversity of Religion; of incorporation of two powers; and what may be expected should the Sectaries prevail.  
Smoke. Pag. 58. SVppose those you call heretics, and who (as you say a little 
a Smoke. p. 57  before) think they have as good Scriptures to esteem you so, were of equal number to you; and both of you equally numbered with Magistrates.  
Light. What cause or need in this difference betwixt you and me to take up such a terrible supposition as you make? for there would have been no ground of suspicion, if there had not been too much indulgence showed to heretical, and schismatical seducers; and what do you mean by supposing equality in number, power, and spirit for contestation about contrary opinions? is it to make the Presbyterians believe that the party they take to be heretical is, or is like to be so many and masterfull, that they will not suffer the Church Government to be settled without clashing of swords, and bloody do? Truly your courting of military men as you do, and others solicitations of them, and brags of their power and purpose may be a just ground of suspicion of so bad an intention in some of your side, which now plead for liberty of conscience, that if they had might to their minds they would assert it with other instruments, and would secure it with circumscription, if not prescription, of the Civil power; as the King of Spain did the liberty of election of the Emperor at Frankford (against King Francis the first King of France his competitor for the Empire) who sent thither an Army of 30000 men, that the choosers might be free and not forced, 
Guicciard.  whereby he so overawed them that they durst not make their choice but in the family of the house of Austria.  
Smoke. Pag. 58. This is an image of your Incorporation of your two powers, that you so plead for in this kind.  
Light. Now truly Sr. you are a very sorry image-maker, that draw your picture so imperfectly, so grossly, like the rude Painters of old, who were fain to their misshapen portraitures to add an Inscription, this is a man, and this is an horse, or else a man could tell no more than a horse what the pictures resembled. If you had not told your Reader this is an image of your Incorporation, etc. he would never have thought you meant any such thing by what you have said; and now you have made your description, and set your subscription to it, it is yet so smoky and obscure, that I doubt he cannot understand it, I am sure I cannot perceive any truth or sense in it: for what incorporation of powers do we make and plead for? you should have showed what powers you mean, what incorporation of them we make, where and by what arguments we plead for it; till you do this, I shall think your image a mere imagination, and a fantastical Chimaera.  
Smoke. Pag. 58. If we were equally principled for persecution as you are, and alled by your spirit, ah what a Kingdom would here be?  
Light. What principles of persecution do Presbyterians hold, set which they have not warrant from the word of God? all with you is persecution which in any sort opposeth your lavish toleration of all Religions, though never so dishonourable to God, and damnable to man; the godly party in the time of the Prelates cried out upon pluralities, and soule-murdering non-residency, accounting it an high and heinous crime in those who withheld spiritual food from the souls of the people, and held that the State was bound to do them right, to see them supplied with necessary provision for their salvation; and is there not a soul murdering by poisoning the people's souls with pernicious principles, as well as by withholding from them found and salutary Doctrine? and is not the State bound to provide against this spiritual peril, as well as the other? which if it may be done without drawing of a drop of blood, it is so much more pleasing to conscientious Presbyterians, as it is less grievous to heretical seducers; the wild beast may be kept and fed within the grate, and the Fox confined to the length of a chain, though they be not suffered to range abroad, and make havoc on the flock. And how are they armed for persecution of their adversaries, when they not only live, but thrive and flourish, and are advanced to places of honour and trust all over the Kingdom.  
If the Presbyterians were so spirited, and so armed with power as you pretend, how came the Independents to enjoy such a prosperous condition as they do? And for the persecution of the Tongue and Pen, (for there may be words as keen and cutting as very swords) was there ever any so sharp and bitter as theirs, who, pretending to hate and persecute persecution, jeer and revile Presbytery and Presbyters with so much virulence that all the scoffing Ishmaelites, Lucian's, Martin Marprelates (of which last 
a Josias Nichols in his Book called the Plea of the Innocent.  josias Nichols a godly Nonconformist said he was stirred up by Satan to hinder the work of Reformation) put together make not up the measure of their malignity who plead for toleration of all Religions, as you do, and whose spirit appears to be so furious (though yours be more calm) that could they advance to the height of their hopes, and aims, it is manifest by their own written words, that they would not tolerate a Presbyterian, but would bring him under intolerable slavery; for they would have the 
b So in the Arraignment of Persecution, p. 36. Printed by Martin Claw-Clergy Printer to the Reverend Assembly of Divines for Bartholomew Bang-Priest, and are to be sold at his shop in Toleration street. Anno. 1645.  Presbyterian Tribe led in a string from Westminster to Algate in leathern jackets, and mattocks on their shoulders, and the words that follow presently after, and close up the Paragraph are, they would do the State better service with their Canonical girdles (which very few of them wear) were the knot tied in the right place, the words are no such Riddle as to need an Oedipus to expound them; Sir, I will return you your own words again, and let the Reader judge whether they were more fitly objected by you, or retorted by me. If we were equally principled and armed for persecution, and acted by your spirit (yours who breath out such threaten and slaughters from Toleration street against Presbyterians) ab what a Kingdom would here be?   

SECT. XXVII. The Authority of the Parliament not pleaded by the Presbyterians as a supplement of Scriptures, as Mr. Saltm. suggesteth; nor slighted by them as by Mr. Saltm. it is; of the pretended danger of the Magistrates engagement with the Ministers; of the pretended tenderness of consciences in Sectaries.  
Smoke. Pag. 58. But you close up with that of the Lords and Commous in an Ordinance, etc. I am afraid those are such proofs as you intent most in your Presbytery, to make your supplement of Scriptures by Authority — and to make us believe what you cannot persuade us to believe, and to make it out by an Ordinance what you want by Scripture.  
Light. You had made it a matter 
c New Quere. p. 8.  of Popish and Prelatical jealousy, to keep up their supposed truths by suspecting every thing that appears for an enemy; Whereupon 
d Exam. Sect. 12. p. 44.  I shown that there were other motives for opposing of Heresy and Schism, (besides such a jealousy) and I shown it by instances of zeal against Heretics in divers of the Ancients, and concluded with an Ordinance of Parliament of the 20. of October, 1645. wherein they endeavour for the complete establishment of purity and unity in the Church of God; hereupon you say, you are afraid these are such proofs as we intent most in our Presbytery; proofs for what? If you take it for constitution of a Presbytery, we have proved that by Scripture before it was offered to the Parliament; if for execution, you must either intent it of an Ordinance of Parliament, to enable us to set up the Presbytery, or for the particular proceed in the Presbytery; If you mean it of the former, we must urge the Ordinance of Parliament for it; if any one question it in a Civil Title, we must plead it by such a warrant as the Ordinance; if for the particular proceed, they must have such profess and evidence as in other cases of difference, by personal contestation.  
Smoke. Pag. 58. But I hope that Honourable Senate will rather let you argue from the Scripture against us, then from their Authority.  
Light. Do you hope then that the Parliament will not establish the Presbytery by their Authority? or if they do, that we will make no use of their Ordinance, to maintain the purity and unity which that Honourable Senate intended, against the confusion of Heresy and Schism? If so, I doubt not but you will be deceived in both; and yet Sir the Presbyterian cause will be made good against the whole circumference of Sects, who Centre in Independency, for toleration of multiplicity of professions in matter of Religion.  
Smoke. Pag. 58. But I have not to do here with answer of Ordinances of Parliament. I contend not, but submit to them in every Ordinance for the Lords sake; nor doth my Argument lie against any thing of theirs, but yours: I dare not undervalue them to count them as Parties, but judges, in our difference I appeal to the Parliament as to Caesar; nor is it a fair proof of truth to draw the Magistrates sword out of the scabbard.  
Light. But I have not to do with an Ordinance of Parliament, say you, you might have let it alone; I laid no such weight of Argument upon it, as did engage you to answer it. Now whereas you say, you submit to them in every Ordinance, it is but a compliment, for were you serious and sincere in this you profess, would you do as you, do cry down Tithes as Antichristian, which the Parliament by Ordinance hath established? or cry up such a liberty of conscience, and Preaching without Ordination, as they by Ordinance have forbidden? I could put the same Quere upon other particulars, wherein you make no more scruple in practice to go cross to the Parliament, then in your words to contradict me.  
Yet you say, you dare not undervalue them as to make them parties but Judges in our difference: Then their Authority must decide the difference; and if the decision stick on your side, will you not accept, or make use of it to countenance your cause against us? you will not, you cannot deny it; why then should you say in your next words, It is no fair proof of truth to draw the Magistrates sword out of the scabbard: If they be judges, as you call them, and appeal be made unto them, (as by you it is) why should you impute it as a faulty drawing of the Magistrates sword out of the scabbard to produce their sentence, or make use of their Authority?  
Smoke. Pag. 59 You wonder considering who was engaged I would so undervalue them, to compare them with Papists and Prelates.  
Light. You wonder? 
a My Exam. of your New. Quere. Sect. 12. pag. 44.  I said, If you had well considered who were engaged for the establishment of Church Government, and how fare, before you published your New Quere, you would not sure have so fare undervalved their piety and prudence, as to compare them with Papists and Papal Prelates.  
Of these words you have made a wonder; you have not only much freedom of fancy, but a great liberty of conscience to amplify, or extenuate, or exchange the words of your adversary as you please; and you do it so often, as to make your credulous Reader, who doth not examine whether you have cited my Examination aright, to conceive that you have answered, yea conquered in the Controversy; when you have but slandered my Text, declined the strength of it, smoked the light of it, and confounded the order of it, and gotten the victory only of your own abusive allegation, or interpretation thereof.  
Smoke. Pag. 59 I did consider who was engaged, a Parliament, etc. and had I not highly valued them, I had not ventured so fare in my Quere.  
Light. Not so fare as to oppose, retard, and reproach the Church Government, wherein they were so fare, so publicly engaged; is this to value them, to value them highly? if such be the price you set upon such Honourable Patriots, I shall never be ambitious of your good acceptation, nor solicitous of your estimation of me, whether the rate you set upon me be precious or vile.  
Smoke. Pag. 59 I considered the fatal troubles which attended the Magistrates engagements with the Ministers.  
Light. If the Ministers engagements in Religion be right, it is a happiness that Magistrates be engaged with them, and therefore on the one side promised as matter of great joy, and glory to the Church, that Kings should be unto it as nursing Fathers, and Queens as nursing Mothers, Isa. 49.23. and on the other required as a duty to pray for Kings and for all that are in authority, that we may lead a quiet life in all godliness and honesty, 1 Tim. 2.2. and in all Ages to this day the orthodox party have much desired the Patronage of Princes and civil States in their Religious ministrations, as a means to propagate the Gospel in the power and purity of the Ordinances of Christ; and if the Parliament should (which the Lord forbidden) yield to such a toleration of Religions as you propound, I would know whether you would not desire the security of State for that licence you lust after, if any should oppose you therein; and would you not have the power that granted it engage so fare, as to make it good unto you, and to suppress those who would debar you of the liberty allowed you? We know the spirit of your party by their speeches, and some practices so well, that we doubt not of this, and we have cause rather to believe that you would not wait upon the Magistrate's leisure, to right you in such a case, if you had power for more speedy remedy in your own hands.  
Smoke. Pag. 59 And I considered the blood which hath been poured out by Nationall compulsion of teader consciences.  
Light. In what Nation do you mean? if in England, as I suppose you do, either only or chief, I confess that in the time of Popish Tyranny there was much blood poured out of the ve●●es of such as had tender consciences, so tender that they could endure death more willingly than Idolatry. And I deny not but the domination of the Starchamber, and the High Commission were very Tyrannical, and injurious to tender consciences, and very bloody (especially the Starchamber) to the porsons of such as came under their censure; for I have read the reports of the cruel usager of Mr. Prim●●, Dr. Bastwick●, and Mr. Burton; and truly Sir, I could not but be affected with compassion towards Mr. Lilburne, and with indignation towards his persecutors (though he have often bewrayed a bitter spirit by many disdainful contumelies against them) upon the reading of the late Relation of his sufferings proved before the Right Honourable the House of Peers, Feb. 13. 1645. wherein it is testified that 
a Pag. 3.  he was whipped from Fleet bridge to Westminster so cruelly, that the cords bruised his shoulders, and made them swell as big as a penny leaf, and weals on his back bigger than a Tobacco-pipe; and that the Warden of the Fleet caused him to be gagged in such a cruel manner as if he would have torn his jaws in pieces.  
But did not the Parliament so fare abominate the Tyranny of these Courts as utterly to depose them, and to exclude the Bishops out of the House of Peers? and will you compare their engagements for the purity and unity of a reformed Religion, and Government, with the intolerable-Tyranny of such merciless oppressors?  
And for the tender consciences so much, so plausibly pleaded for by you, and your party, many who had good means to know Sectaries, and no bad minds to misreport of them, find that for a few tender consciences among them, there are many leprous, ulcerous, blinded, hardened, and cauterised consciences; to which if the State should be so tender as you would have them, it would be cruel to fare better Christians.   

SECT. XXVIII. What a Trumpeter Mr. Saltm. is; his reproach of the Parliament plain enough, though rather implied then expressed; A challenge of him to prove his insinuated suggestions of Treason, Blasphemy, etc. in my Examination of his New Quere.  
Smoke. Pag. 59 ANd like a spiritual watchman I could not but blow my Trumpet.  
Light. The premises considered, your Trumpet is as the Trumpet of Sheba the son of Bichri sounded to sedition, a Sam. 20.1.  
Smoke. Pag. 59 And for my comparison of Papists and Prelates, I appeal to the world if there be any reproach, whether it be not in the Interpreter rather than in the Author.  
Light. For my comparison of Papists and Prelates, If you compare Papists and Prelates, it is not so great a reproach to Prelates for the most part to be matched with Papists, as for the Presbyterians to be likened to the worst of either, as you make the comparison; but you should have said further, for my resemblance of such as desire and endeavour the speedy setting up of Government to Papists and Prelates (for so you made it in your Quere, p. 8.) I appeal (not to the world, that is too wide a compass for a judicatory as well as for a Church, but) to the ingenuous and impartial Reader, whether the Parliament, making as much haste as they can to finish the Government, that they may establish it by their civil Sanction, be not implicitly taken into that imputation; and let him judge also whether the reproach be in the Author or in the Interpreter.  
Smoke. Pag. 59 If it be lawful, say you, to draw in consequent conclusions, and then father them, I could prove you to speak Treason, Blasphemy, Idolatry, Atheism, Heresy, nay Independency, which some of you may think worse, Anabaptism, Separation, which would seem to be as hateful to you; but I judge you not in any such sort; nor had I spoken so fare now, but in a just vindication.  
Light. If it be lawful? why should you doubt of it, but that it is lawful? If I have any premises which you can make parents to bring forth such corrupt and criminal conclusions, spare me not Sir; nay I challenge you to lay down your antecedent in my words, and bring in your consequent of Treason, Blasphemy, Idolatry. Atheism, etc. out of them; which if you can do by any fair and unforced deduction, I will take you for an unerring Oracle, and follow you with an implicit faith, with punctual observance and imitation of you whithersoever you go, through all your vatiations of Heresy, and Schism, though you ramble all over the Catalogue of them, as Irenaeus, Epiphanius, Philastrius, Brixlensit, and Augustine of old, or any later Haeresiographers have set them forth; but if you cannot do this, (as I know you cannot) with what conscience do you give out a suspicion, or insinuation of such abominable guilt? what an ungodly guile is this? how far from the Christian charity of a man pretending the spirit of meekness, and moderation, as you do? 
a Smoke. p. 2. nu. 3.  Let a spirit of meekness (say you) run in the Artery of Preaching and Printing; how fare from finceritie, to raise such a smoke of infamy and reproach upon the reputation of him whom you style sometimes 
b In the Inscription of your Letter.  a Friend, sometimes 
c Smoke. p. 26.  a Brother, and to whom you profess a threefold respect for his age, learning, and place, in your Letter unto him? this s●rely is the beam in your eye 
d Your Letter to me. p. b.  you spoke of, while you are curious to take out the mote in mine eye; and for that you say of Independency worse thought of then Treason, Blasphemy, Idolatry, Atheism, etc. I know no Presbyterian that thinks so of Independency, ut sic, abstractively, but considering the concurrence of many dangerous and damnable opinions with it, and their protection and propagation by it, it may perhaps be truly said, that Independency extensively, comprehensively, and effectively, though not formally, or intensively may be worso than other errouts, or heresies, forced under that supposed golden head, or embraced in its ●●ver 〈◊〉, though they be at the best but as the belly and thighs of brass; and at the worst as legs of iron, and feet in part of iron, in part of clay, as in Nebuchadnezars Image, Dan. 2. vers. 32, 33.  
I should require and expect your ingenuous acknowledgement of this injurious and uncharitable charge, but that you have directed me to another remedy of the wrong you do me; where you say in your Epistle to me, If you find any passions in my Book, charge them upon mine unregenerate part, for I find that when I would do good evil is present with me.  
According to this distinction a female disciple of some Antinomian Teacher (who would be thought too good a Christian to be a member of any Congregation that met in a Steeplehouse) made her evasion from an accusation of these; for when her Mistress charged her for stealing her linens, and other things, which she found in her chest, or trunk, she denied that she stole them; and when she asked how came they to be laid and locked up there, Did not you do this? No, said she. It was not I, but sin that dwelleth in me.  
That this is no tale feigned, or taken up on trust to reproach such professors as pretend to an extraordinary strain of Evangelicall perfection, but a true story, will be made good by evidence beyond exception to such as shall question the truth thereof: But whether true, or false, you will haply say, what is this to you? Truly so much as her excuse for her thievery hath the more conformity with your excuse for your calumny; but I bring it in but occasionally, and it is more pertinent I confess to mind you of your own faults then of others.  
Smoke. Pag. 59 You say you will conclude with my Politics, etc. The Answer to this see in the Epistle.   

SECT. XXIX. The charge of misapplication of Revel. 18.1. justified against Mr. Saltm. his denial. The expectation of new lights which some Sectaries teach, Papistical, fallacious, and dangerous.  
Smoke. Pag. 59 YOu say of my Text, Revel. 18.1. that at I began, so I and, with misapplication of Scripture; Misapplication is a word sooner writ then proved, and my reasons were rather crowded then ordered in my paper; the Scripture was this, For the Angel that came down from heaven hath great power, and the earth is lightened with his glory.  
Light. If you would clear the Scripture from misapplication, you must show how it came in with a for, as a reason of the precedent passage: your next words before it are, The Gospel dares walk abroad with boldness, and simplicity, when traditions of men like melancholy people fear every thing they meet will kill them; and then immediately (not a word between) you say, For the Angel that comes down from heaven hath great power, and the earth is lightened with his glory.  
If this be not a misapplication of Scripture, I add further, if it be not an absurd one, and your defence of it ridiculously vain, and your appeal to the Reader a presumption, that you take him to be very stupid, or so fond as to follow you in all you say with an implicit faith, let the judicious and impartial Reader judge.  
Smoke. Pag. 59 Which Scripture there applied doth hint to any that will not rather cavil then interpret, that my reason for delay of Government was in this; An Angel was yet to come.  
Light. You said before your reasons were rather crowded then ordered, (though I know not why you should put yourself into such a precipitation of haste) If so, it is not strange they should be misplaced, and those cast behind which should come before, as in a crowd it falleth out. And truly for this testimony, and the reason of it, with what went afore it, it comes in a great deal too late to be pertinently applied; for you had ended your reasons, (such as they were) for the delay of Government a good while before, and now were at the end of your second Objection, where there was room enough, before you loosed your Pen from Paper, to have made a reference of that Text to its proper place, and to have told your Reader what you meant by it as now you do; and then I should have told you that that Text is as much misapplied for want of truth, had it come in where it might seem to be most certain, as here for want of sense and suitableness to the precedent words. For,  
The Government of the Church is, (as you have acknowledged before) a Scripture Government; and unless you wait for an Angel from heaven to bring another Gospel, who by the doom of the Apostle, should he come, should be welcomed with a curse, Gal. 1.8. you must not look for another Gospel Government; if you refuse the Scripture light in expectation of Evangelicall Revelations, take heed you comply not with the Papists, (whom you pretend to abhor) making 
a Bellarm. de notis Eccles. Tom. 2. l. 4. c. 15. p. 278.  Prophetical light or revelation a note of the Church, and pretending Revelations from 
b Legend. aur. fol. 255. p. 1. col. 1. Portifer. seu Breviar. in usum Eccles. Satisbur. part Estrval. in Festum S ri. Egid. Sept. 1. lect. 9 printed Paris pervid. Francisc. Regnault. an. 1555. Thelmes of the Saints out of Villegas & Ribad. vol. 1. part. 1. p. 87, 88, 98.  Angels. And if you say your Brethren the Anabaptists have their revelations, and many others besides them talk of new lights. I doubt they are for the most part but like your Book, which offers Smoke for light, and some of them very destructive illusions of Satan; as that of the Anabaptist of 
c Sleydan Comment. ad an. 1527. l. 6. fol. 87. b.  Sangalli a Town of Helvetia, who cut off his own Brother's head in his parent's presence, telling them it was revealed to him, and commanded him of God, he should do so; and none of them such as may be a rule of direction to any society of pious, and prudent men, much less to those by whose Authority the Government is to be set up, and settled throughout the whole Kingdom.  
Smoke. Pag. 59 An Angel was yet to come with power and glory.  
Light. The Angel whereof John prophecy was to come after his time, but now about sixteen hundred years are passed since he had that vision, and how can you say he is yet to come, in respect of the time wherein we have this debate? what Angel or Spirit hath stood by you, as by Paul, and told you that we must yet expect such an Angel to come, and when he will come? that when he comes he will bring a revelation of Church Government with him, which hath been kept all this while in the dark? if you have any warrant, any good ground for such a vision, and revelation from heaven, show it; it is a matter of too great moment to be taken upon trust, upon your bare word, or of any man's alive; and it may be Sir you may wait for this Angel as long as the jews have done for another Messiah, and at last fail of your expectation as they have done, and for ever must do.  
Smoke. Pag. 59 Or the Gospel will fill the earth with more light.  
Light. You sent forth your Dawnings of light the last year, but in stead of fair day light next to follow, you present us with a Smoke; what Gospel-light you mean is too dark to me, and it may be also to yourself; If you mean the new lights that Sectaries brag of, they are, and I bele●ve all Scripture-learned Christians will take them but for the glimmerings of an ignis fatuus, some illusive flashes from the shining of Satan, when he puts on his holiday habit, and presents himself as in the apparition of an Angel of light, 2 Cor. 11.14.  
To me they represent the juggling imposture of a Popish Priest, of whom Erasmus writes in one of his Epistles, that he got together many Crab-fish, and tied pieces of Wax candles lighted at their claws, who crawling up and down in the Churchyard in the night, made the lights movable to and fro; and the simple people seeing them at distance, (for they durst not come near them) the Priest made them believe they were souls come from Purgatory, which needed and craved the prayers of good people for their release. As many as have not their eye sight hurt by your Smoke (for Solomon showeth, Prov. 10.26. and experience complains of it as ill for the eyes,) will take many of the new lights, so much talked and boasted of by divers of your party, rather for such false illusions, then for true illuminations.  
Smoke. Pag. 59 So as we should not shut up ourselves too soon in the dark; And now Reader judge whether it be my mis-application or his misinterpretation,  
Light. That we might not be shut up too long in the dark, I have brought all this light of truth to dispel your vapour of error, and slander; and now I may, I doubt not, the premises considered, and judiciously weighed, conclude, as you do, with an address to the Reader, but with a necessary transmutation of your terms, Now Reader judge whether misinterpretation be not a word sooner said then proved, as well as mis-application, and whether it be my misinterpretation, or his mis-application. Here he ends his exceptions against me; and here I fix my period of Apology against them.    

A Postscript in Answer to Mr. Saltmarsh his Postscript, consisting of two testimonies of Claudius Salmasius, the one against the form of Baptism in the name of the Father, Son and holy Ghost; the other for Independency of Churches.  

1. Of Baptising in the Name of the Father, Son, and holy Ghost.  
YOur allegation out of the excellently learned Salmasius is liable to manifold exceptions.  
First, In that you make him a Germane Writer, whereas he is not a Germane, but a Frenchman borne; nor is he a Writer in Germany, for he is an honorarius professor at Leyden in Holland, where you say, he is employed by the State to write.  
I suppose (you are so addicted to novelty) you will not for your defence have recourse to a record of Antiquity, which 
a Salmas. de Primatu Papae. c. 17 p. 261.  Salmasius citeth out of Marcellinus, wherein both Germanyes and Belgium were comprehended under the name of France.  
Secondly, But to come from the man to the matter, your allegation out of him consisteth of two particulars; the first whereof is of the manner of Baptism, for that you cite Salmasius thus.  
First, That the Baptising in the Name of the Father, Son, and holy Ghost, is not the way of Baptism practised by the Apostles.  
Secondly, The Baptism of Apostolical use and institution is in the rivers, not with invocation of the three persons, seeing the Apostles baptised only in the Name of the Lord jesus Christ; the later of these you set down in the words of 
b Baptisma in aquis perennibus Apostolici instituti & moris, sed non invocatio Trinitatis super Baptizatum, cum Apostoli in solo nomine Jesu Baptizarent. Salmas. in Apparat. ad lib. de Primatu Papa. pag. 193.  Salmasius in Latin; wherein three things are to be considered.  
1. The form of Baptism, In the Name of the Father, Son, and holy Ghost.  
2. The matter of it, River water.  
3. The scope of Salmasi●● in these assertions of Baptism.  
First, For the form of Baptism, Salmasius doth not, as you do, Except against that form of Baptism at all, much less for this reason, 
c Smoke. p. 13, 14. of the first order of figures.  because jesus Christ left it not made up to the hands of the Apostles; for if the Apostles baptised only in the Name of the Lord jesus, it doth not appear they had any form for that left unto them by Christ, no more then of the other, In the Name of the Father, Son, and holy Ghost. And if the Apostles used that form, it was not because the other was unlawful, but because it was that wherein the practice of Baptism began in the Ministry of john Baptist. Act. 19.4. and yet from your own 
d Smoke. p. 14. n●. 6.  Exposition of Baptising In the Name of jesus Christ in your next word 〈◊〉 will follow, that it is as lawful to baptise In the Name of the Father, Son, and holy Ghost, as in the Name of the Lord jesus.  
Secondly, For the matter of Baptism, Riverwater, you differ much from Salmasius, for he takes it literally, 
e Smoke. Ibid. pag. 13.  you figuratively.  
Thirdly, For the scope, Salmasius his aim in what he said of the manner of Baptism, and other Rites, was to show the diversity of them, and various use of them, for confutation of the superstitions of Papists; but you bring it in to plead for the presumption, and countenance the continuacy of Antipopish Sectaries.  
Your other Testimony you bring in thus, Salmasius his Testimony against the present Presbyterial way.  
You might have added, (as you English it afterwards) for the Independency of Churches. If he writ for Independency of Churches against the Presbyterial way, he is an Independent, and then I may retort the Testimony upon you, and make the Title thus, The Testimony of Salmasius 〈◊〉 Independent for the The Presbyterial way, against Independency; For I can bring as good evidence for the Presbyterial way out of Salmasius, as you can do against it; and yet is not Salmasius a 
f That Mr. Saltm. may not think me too youthful in bringing in this paranomasy, and so with an affected gravity take upon him to reprove me for it, I will present him with some examples of paranomasies in the Hebrew of the old Testament, as 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 God shall enlarge or persuade Japhet, Gen. 9.27. and in that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Dan shall judge his people, Gen. 49.16. and in that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Nabal is his name and folly is with him, 1 Sam. 25.25. and in the Greek of the New Testament, as 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. Rom. 1. vers. 29.31. and in the Fathers, as in Augustine, who speaking of Faustus the Manichee, saith thus, Legent qui volunt, & invenient aut falli imprudenter, aut fallere impudenter, Aug. contr. Faust. Manich. lib. 22. cap 32. and in another place; Nihil opus est ut e● cum discrimine definiantur, quae sinc crimine nesciuntur: Aug. de Trin. lib. 8. cap. 5.  Saltmarshius, mutable in his Tenets, unconstant and contradictory to himself, as you are.  
His words that seem to make for you, you ●●t down first in Latin, which you so cite, as he that taketh you for a faithful Scribe, must take him for a very poor Scholar, and ignorant of Grammar, (who is acknowledged by competent judges of his abilities, abundantly witnessed in works, to be a man eminently furnished with all kind of knowledge) for in fourteen lines you set down no fewer than seventeen errors, which must imply either gross ignorance, or supine negligence in yourself, or in those whom you employed in the printing of your book, as he that diligently compareth his original, and your transcript will acknowledge: and secondly in English, thus,  

g Duobus modis haec Independentia Ecclesiarum accipi potest, si vel respectum non habeant ad viciu●s ullas Ecclesias, aut si non pendeant ab authoritate aliquot Ecclesiarum simul in unam Classem vel Synodum conjunctarum, cujus convent●● partem & ipsae faciant; prior modus similior reperitur primitivae Ecclesiae praxi, consuetudini ac usui, quo voluntaria haec communio inter Ecclesias fuit: posterior magis convenit cum instituto quod postea juris humani dispositione introduction est. Hoc pos; teriore modo liberta● particularium Ecclesiarum magis imminuta videtur quam priore. Sed quod ab initio fuerit voluntatis, post●● facta● est juris. Hoc jus sane positivum, atque Ecclesiasticum, humanumque, 〈◊〉 divinum; juris est quidem divini ut una sit Ecclesia Christi, unita● autem eju● non gregalium aut concorpor●lium plurium adurata collectione consistit, sed in 〈…〉 doctri●● un●●imi cons●nsion●. Salmasius in apparatu ad libr. de Primate. Papae; pag. 265. 266.  This Independency of Churches may be taken two ways; either as not having respect to any neighbour Churches, or as not depending on the authority of some Churches, that are joined in some Classes, or Synod, of which the Churches themselves may make a part; The former way is found to be more like the practice, custom, and use of the Primitive Church, whereby this voluntary communion was among the Churches. The latter way doth more agree with the institution which afterwards was introduced by a humane authority. By this latter way the liberty of particular Churches seems to be less (more, you should say) diminished then by the former. But that which from the beginning was arbitrary, afterwards is made necessary [as a law.] This law truly is positive, and Ecclesiastical, and humane, not divine. 'Tis by a divine law that the Church of Christ should be one, but the unity of it doth not consist in the union [or collection] of many that are of the same flock or body, but in the unanimous consent, agreement in faith and doctrine.  
In this saying of Salmasius, you have not a word against the lawfulness of the subordination of Churches in the Presbyterial Government; and that which sounds in favour of Independency, is but this;  
First, That the States of Churches by themselves, without respect, or relation to any neighbour Churches, are more like the practice, custom, and use of the Primitive Church, where a voluntary communion was among the Churches. He doth not say our Saviour did institute that Government, nor that the Apostles gave any order for it, nor that it was the same that was in the Primitive Church, but that it was like the practice, custom, and use of the Primitive Church.  
And so we say of Baptising in rivers, of receiving the Sacrament at night, of the love feasts, greetings with an holy kiss, and community of goods, and many other particulars; but it will not follow that in our time, and State it is better to Baptise in rivers then in Churches, to receive the Sacrament at night then in the morning, and to continue those love feasts, and kisses of love, which for the abuse of them were left off by the religious many hundred years ago; nor that community of goods is better than the propriety of them, as in the present age.  
Secondly, He saith, The later way, that is, of union of Churches in Classes, and Synods, doth more agree with the institution which afterwards was introduced by humane authority. To which I answer, that the Institution of it might be before, and the practice of it according to the Institution come in afterwards; or if it were but instituted afterwards by humane authority, it doth not follow that it was without, much less against authority divine; for he saith, as you cite him, it is by a divine law that the Church of Christ should be one; if so, it is a dictate of natural prudence, which is a beam of divine light, (though not an express and positive law of God) that all just and fit means to preserve this union, so fare as the State and condition of the Church, and time will permit, be made use of it; and that is an union in Classical, and Synodical Assemblies.  
Thirdly, That by this later way, that is, the way of association, and subordination in, and to both Classes, and Synods, the liberty of particular Churches seems to be more diminished; where he speaketh cautelously, saying, it seemeth to be more diminished; it may seem, and yet not be as it seems; but if the liberty be more diminished, the safety of it by that means is more assured, and the authority of it the more strengthened, while it governeth aright, in that if the censures of it be slighted, while they are just, they will be ratified by the superior Assembly, and the contumacy of offenders the more kept down.  
Fourthly, That what from the beginning was Arbitrary, afterward was made necessary as a law, this law truly is Positive, Ecclesiastical, and Humane, not Divine. It might be arbitrary from the beginning, while there were few Christians for Churches, few Churches for union, and those perhaps not so situate that they could with convenience, or safety come under such a combination, or subordination as was requisite for the Church's security against heresy and schism; but if after the beginning (how long, or little a while is hard to know) it were thought so necessary, as to be form up into a law, (though it were not divine but humane, positive, and Ecclesiastical) and coming under no complaint for impiety against God, or injury to man, and withal conducing directly to such ends as but now I noted, it is more for subordinate Presbytery, then that which hath been alleged for the Independency, which you and your party so importunately plead for.  
All this considered that you have produced in the name of Salmasius for the Independent, and against the Presbyterial way, will do you little good, especially if it be known what he writeth against Independency, of which, since you silently smother it, I will make some supply.   

An express and clear Testimony of Salmasius against Independency.  
— 
h Quod tamen nullo modo iis suffragatur, qui censent unamquamque Ecclesiam habere potestatem Independentem, nec probant plurium Ecclesiarum conjunctionem sub directione Classium, ut vocant, vel Synodorum; & paulo post,  Which notwithstanding makes nothing for them, who think every Church hath an Independent power, and approve not the uniting of many Churches under the direction of Classes or Synods. And a little after he saith; 
i Totalis, inquit, Indepenentia earum ab omni alia Ecclesia minime laudanda, nec recipienda. Salmal. Apparat. ad lib. de Primate. Pap. p. 265.  Their total Independency upon any other Church is neither worthy of praise, nor of acceptation.  
And again he saith, 
k Si eo tempore cum Spiritus Christi Ecclesias per Apostolos suos regeret, ac dirigeret, non tamen eae Independentes fuere, quanto minus nunc in hac Seculorum extrema colluvie, cum tot haeresibus, quasi loliis & Zizaniis Ecclesia tota inquinata sit, admitti oportet hanc Ecclesiarum singularum 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 absolutam; qua non debeant ad vicinos referre conventus cum nodus apud sc vi●dice dignus inciderit, nec a concilio plurium Ecclesiarum simul junctarum ex viciniae commoditate gubernari sustineant. Unites omnium toto orbe dispersarum Ecclesiarum, sub uno Pastore Christo, & in unam Doctrinam consentientium non potest constare absque communione, nec communio absque communicatione, communicatio autem nulla esse potest ubiom●●s inter se sunt Independentes. Salmas. Apparat. ad lib. de Primatu Papae. p. 267.  If the Churches were not Independent at that time when the Spirit of Christ by his Apostles ruled and governed them, how much less in this last colluvies of ages, when the whole Church is p●stered with so much cockle, and tares of heresies, should this absolute self-ruling of all Churches be admitted● according to which, if they meet with a knotty difficulty, they may not refer it to their neighbouring conventions, nor will they be governed by an Assembly of divers Churches, which vicinity hath commodiously united. The unity of all the Churches dispersed through the world, under one Shepherd Christ, and consenting to one Doctrine cannot stand without communion, nor that communion without communica●ation, which can be none where all are Independent on each other.  
And that this is the mind of Salmasius, without imposing any thing upon him, or wresting his words to any other sense than he intended, (as you do) I am assured by the Testimony of a godly, and learned Divine, of great integrity and reputation with those that know him, who had conference with Salmasius in Holland, while his Book was at Press (and where, counting the time of printing and accidental pawses it 
l Prodit ecce tandem noster de Frimatu Papae Tractatus, & prima quidem tantum sui parte, diu a multis expectat●, quia diu sub praelo mor●s traxit, ob varias & Sonticas causas, mode absentiae meae, modo valetudinis, interdum & aliarum occupationum saepius interruptus. Ante quinquenuium excudi coeptus hoc demum tempore lucem videt. Salmas. initio Epist. Lect. praefix. Apparat. ad lib. de Primatu Papae.  continued five years together) and told me that his scope in that Book was to oppose the extremes, Popery on the one side, and Independency on the other, and to assert the middle and moderate way of Presbyterial Government.  
These two quotations out of Salmasius, the one a little before, the other the next page after the Testimony produced by you, may give just cause of suspicion, that you meant to delude your Reader with a maimed allegation; omitting what made against you, by a fraudulent Apharesis, and Apocope of the precedent, and subsequent words; unless it be more like that you never saw the Book, but had the Testimony sent you in some piece of paper, which contained no more than you have made use of. Which we may the rather believe, because the mistakes were so many in Salmasius his Text, as could hardly have been if you had taken your Testimony at the first hand.    
FINIS.