MEMORANDUMS OF THE CONFERENCES HELD BETWEEN The BRETHREN scrupled at the ENGAGEMENT; and others who were satisfied with it.  
On Feb. 15. and 22. and March 1. 1649.  
 crest bearing two shields, one decorated with a cross and the other with a harp  
LONDON, Printed by William Du-gard 1650.   

A Memorandum Feb. 15. 1649.  
Of the Conference held between the Brethren scrupled at the engagement, and others who were satisfied with it.  
The first overture of the discourse was this.  
SEeing there are godly and well-meaning men, who have walked together affectionately heretofore towards one and the same end, to advance a Gospel Reformation in Religion, and to maintain the grounds of a just liberty in the Nation: seeing now of late they are unhappily partend, and fallen at a distance on their way; and seeing they still profess to retain their first principles, although they now differ in their walking: it would bee very expedient, if not altogether necessary, for their mutual preservation, and the carrying on of their works, that they should without prejudice, and in a godly manner consider where they partend one from another, wherefore they partend, and whether yea or no they cannot bee brought again into the way of walking jointly as they did heretofore. Therefore a friendly motion was made, that it would be worth the while to make a trial how this might bee effected.  
Whereupon another who liked the motion well, offered that to bring the thing to pass, it would be requisite, first to determine the distinct aim of their Discourses; then to recommend their design to the blessing of God, and so to proceed as God should guid their thoughts. This advice was followed, and the aim of their discourses was agreed upon, that it should bee an Essay, how, in a friendly private and familiar way, the differences fallen out amongst Brethren might bee reconciled, by the removal of some mistakes upon which they are risen between them; and that this aim might bee attained, they joined in prayer, to beseech the Father of all mercies, and the God of all consolation to direct their thoughts and affections in a right way; that they might find a cure to their wounds, and an healing to their breaches; that they might not inflame and poison their sores, nor miscarry in the things they went about and intended to his glory, and their mutual edification.  
When the prayer to this effect was uttered, the Discourses upon the subject taken in hand began, whereof the first was to represent the course of former proceedings that God's Providence in an extraordinary way had shaken the foundations of the state of Great Britain, and carried all along as well in Scotland, as in England, to this period and issue, by the hand of a minor party; that the Government being shaken, and the power that was, being fallen with it, to the ground, it could not bee suffered to lie there, lest all the grounds of common safety should bee lost irrecoverably; for which cause these that were in place, betrusted with a right to see the government settled, were bound to take it up, and have a care of the management thereof towards the public good, which they have endeavoured faithfully to do by laying the foundations of Religion and Justice, and giving protection to those that should bee true and faithful to the common interest of necessary liberty; and although this had been don by them for none other design but common preservation, and that they had taken in the midst of great opposition their lives in their hands to settle peace and lasting quietness in the Nation, they had cause to griev that their upright meanings and faithful undertakings were otherwise interpnted and construed by such who should have joined with them to carry on the work; and that it would bee a great happiness, if the Causes why they were avers from such a resolution might bee known and removed.  
To the close of this discourse a reply was made to this effect: That the thing which kept mens affections from joining with the present Government was, that they found themselves as they conceived frustrate at present of the hopes of a real Reformation in matters of Religion, and of a just liberty and equal administration of Justice; that these hopes not being advanced, but hindered by the change of Government; and the army who occasioned this change, being in all mens opinions rather set for the dissolving, then the settling of Religion, this was a main cause to disaffect Godly spirits from the present powers.  
Hereunto this answer was given: That the whole change was intended by those that made it; for none other end but to gain certainly those hopes by this way of settlement, which could not possibly bee expected, whiles the former government was in being; as appeared by so many Treaties, wherein nothing could bee gained as satisfactory to bee a foundation of those hopes. That they, who now manage public affairs, had don more towards those things then any that were in places before them; which would evidently appear both by the Declarations which had been made upon the Change, and by the Acts and proceedings of the supreme power since the Change; for it will bee found manifestly that as many, if not more, Acts and Laws have been made in one year for settling of the State in a way to purchase these hopes speedily, then in all the time of the parliament before; but that no man could rationally expect a full accomplishment of all such hopes in an instant; chiefly when so great obstructions stood in the way; but if all that were godly would concur to engage with the Government for these ends, their hopes and desires might speedily bee compassed; but if they would not make use of this opportunity; that then the Magistrate would bee guiltless, and the fault would bee upon such as refused to do their duty.  
Hereunto another made this reply. But the present Government doth obstruct their own work themselves; for the Engagement which is offered to bee taken, is one of the things which doth occasion the greatest distance of mens spirits in these times: and, except it can bee reconciled and made apparently to consist with former engagements, and particularly with the National Covenant, there could bee no concurrence expected from those who were scrupled in Conscience at the taking of it.  
To this an Answer was made to this purpose: that to enter upon scruples of Conscience; to dispute matters of that nature with Ministers, was not a thing to bee expected from men of secular employments; that these would bee able to sway them by Arguments relating to conscience: but that an Essay might bee made, as to matters of fact, to rectify some mistakes which might occasion the scruples of Conscience: and that grounds might bee offered to clear the equity of the present Government in their proceedings: to which effects it was said to bee observable; that the scruples at present taken up in reference to the National Covenant were raised by the Scots, and some in these parts; rather from the not observing or laying aside of some outward formalities relating to the end and matter of the Covenant, then from any defect from the true end and substance thereof. For the true end for which the Covenant was framed at first, was, to maintain the Godly, and then persecuted party of the Nation, against the profane party thereof; and that the true Religion and just liberty, necessary for the comfortable walking of Godly men, in Gods way, might bee upheld by the magistracy of the Land; and that this end, at the first framing of the Covenant, was solely intended by the Scots themselves; and that all other things were then postposed unto this by them, although it hath not been of late observed by some of them, as will appear undeniably by that which fell out at the first making of the Covenant; which is a mystery heretofore not known to every body, but yet a very great truth: That when the Commissioners of parliament were in Scotland, and the Covenant agreed upon with the Scots by them; the Lords house here in England; and a party of the Commons apprehending, that, by the coming in of the Scots, matters would become irreconcilable towards the King; they made an underhand agreement with the King; and in the house of Commons matters were brought so far, that it was debated and put to the question, whether they should enter in Covenant with the Scots yea or no? the house was divided thereupon, Master Hollis was to number the Negatives; and Sir Thomas Barrington the Affirmatives, and that by a mistake of Master Hollis's reckoning, it was carried in the Negative, till by a review it was found out that the Affirmatives were more by eight persons. When this came to bee known in Scotland how near the parliament in England was brought to revers all that was settled by Covenant between them and the English Commissioners; the Scots had a conference with the Commissioners about it; and at it two things were declared by them; the one by way of Warning to the English, the other by way of Protestation concerning themselves: the Warning they gave to us was, that if ever the ends of the Covenant and the cause to bee prosecuted by it, should bee deserted; that it would bee by that party, which procured those votes in the house of Commons at that time, and that therefore wee should in time to come take heed how wee did join our Counsels with them; lest by their inconstancy to their resolutions and treachery against the cause, all the design might miscarry. The Protestation which they made for themselves was, that supposing the King could not bee induced to take the Covenant, and that the house of Lords should in like manner stand off; nay, and that the house of Commons should also refuse to take it, or desert it, when taken; that, if then there should appear but a party of any twenty Gentlemen of the Nation to rise up for it, that they would join with them, and venture all for the cause against all the would, to maintain it.  
So far were they then from standing upon the formality which is now stood upon, or making that a scruple of Conscience which is now pretended to bee stumbled at; although since they themselves have been the men that joined with that party whereof they gave us warning, and are so far gon from their first Principles and Resolutions, that in concurrence with them for a Royal interest they postpose now the main end and substance of the cause and Covenant to that which then was counted but a formality, and wholly disregarded, and if the Covenant should bee understood to bind the conscience according to the meaning of the first contrivers, then wee may clearly see by this what their meaning was to bee binding, and what not to bee binding in it, in cases of necessity.  
To this Narrative some other circumstantial matters were added to confirm the same, & one who had been familiar with my Lord Wariston said, that when he came first hither in those daies he was wont to say that the parliaments cause was not at so low an ebb when all the armies were defeated; as when Master Hollis  told the Votes of the house of Commons wrong. Whereunto was further added by another; that all our troubles and changes were fallen out more from the Scots changing of their Principles, and manner of proceedings; then from any breach of Covenant in those who at present manage public affairs: because it was never intended by those on both sides that made the Covenant that it should ever oblige us, to the circumstantial parts of Government( mentioned therein) otherwise then as these were to bee subordinate unto the main ends and substantials of the Covenant; which were nothing else but the preservation of a godly party, with the true Religion and just liberties of the Nations respectively, wherewith the present engagement is understood to bee wholly consistent and consonant.  
This scruple being thus far cleared, another did offer a second scruple which he said did lye with himself, and some others thus; that the subscription did import, either a consenting to that which the present Governors had don to take the power upon them; which for conscience sake they could not do, when they saw no legality in their proceedings: or an approbation of their present possession of power or postfacto to confirm them in it; which also not being found legal they knew not how to do: as for himself, he could wave the question of their title and right to Government: he would bee peaceable and quiet in the station wherein God had set him, doing nothing against the power for any party disaffected or opposite unto it; but how to bee true and faithful in a way of active Obedience to support it as it stood, was a thing which in conscience he knew not how to justify, therefore he thought it would bee just that he and others who all along had been faithful to the cause, and now were harmless, might bee freed from the penalty to bee inflicted upon those that take not the Engagement.  
The Answer to this was, that the intent of the Engagement was not to oblige any man to ratify any things past before the forming of the Engagement; but onely to do that which was a duty at present, and in time to come; and that it might justly bee conceived, if once the Engagement were freely taken by all, that it would make the title and right of the Government that now is stronger, or as strong as any that ever was before it: But as to the thing scrupled at, which was the acknowledging of the government, and the yielding of active Obedience thereunto, in things just and lawful in themselves, it was said, First, that the being of a Government was absolutely necessary for the preservation of human societies, and that of the being and existence thereof there could bee no intermission with the safety of Societies; when therefore by the supreme Providence it was taken out of one hand, it must needs instantly fall into another, and by right to that hand which claim's it by the best title. Secondly, that it was absolutely necessary for the being of a Government, that the people should acknowledge it to bee the Government; and that the not acknowledging of it to bee the Government was utterly destructive thereunto; for except it have a being in consent, it cannot have a being in acting. Thirdly, that it is absolutely necessary for the ruling Power to put the Engagement to a point either off or on; because without the settlement of some relation between the Rulers, and those that are ruled, the Government will unavoidably bee dissolved, and can come to nothing but ruin to the State. Fourthly, that it comes at last all to one issue, whether a man doth actually oppose the present power, or not acknowledge it actually; and that in the Providence of a State, this is to bee counted all one; because the difference between not acknowledging and opposing a Government, is none in the event; for both tend to extinguish it; but onely in the manner of the exstinction, the one doth it by a violent assault, the other by a lingering consumption; and whether you quench fire by casting water upon it, or giving it no fuel; it is all one; or whether you cut a man's throat on famish him to death, it is all one, as to his destruction, and all one, as to the tendencie of your action, chiefly when it is in your power to give him food to save his life, and you will not do it. Fifthly, it is acknowledged by all, and never was denied, that Protection and Allegiance are relatives; So that in Justice no Subject can claim protection as due to him from his Ruler, but upon the same ground the Ruler may claim Allegiance as due to him from his Subject: and if either of these bee refused, the other is made voided: Now there can bee no Allegiance without the owning of the power; if therefore any doth sit still, and will not own the power being merely Passive under it, he disown's it, and forfeit's all protection from it. Nor should a State admit of such a Neutralist, beecaus it is destructive thereunto, and such Neutrals upon this ground will join with any opposite party when it appears. Now the forefight of a State must take things in clear view as present, and act towards the preventing of an evil in time unavoidable, as if it now were in being.  
Against this it was further thus insisted: but this is a hard case; that because a mans conscience cannot own the present Government, although he hath concurred hitherto in the whole cause, and gon all along 99 miles with his leaders, that now because he cannot also go the 100 mile with some of them, he must loose all the benefit of his former labours; nay although in time to come he is resolved to bee peaceable, harmless and quiet, and not to contradict or dispute the title whether it bee legal or no.  
But hereunto this was answered, that in the point of conscience the Obligation is equal to oppose and not to own; and who ever thinks himself bound in conscience not to own, he must in profession disown when occasion calls him to it: and if any the least opportunity bee offered to check by another party, the Government which he disown's, he will find himself in conscience bound to oppose and destroy it also. That the conscience of the Magistrate is bound to act in the way wherein he stands as strongly as the Conscience of any who doth oppose or not own him: and if godly men on each side are lead by the dictates of Conscience to oppose one anothers being, and to across each others standing, as on the one side to put down magistracy, and on the other not to protect, or not to bee willing to protect the ministry; this will bee at last the killing of the witnesses, by making themselves a prey to the common adversaries: and if this is determined by God over us, and if I should know that it should come to pass as certainly as that Christ was to die for the salvation of Mankind; yet I would not witting have a hand in bringing it about, no more then in killing the just one: if then God intend any such thing over us, it is probable that by this means his counsel is to bring it to pass, by suffering the consciences of godly men in the way of the magistracy and ministery irreconcilably to jar about matters of duty: but the guilt will lye at their door, who refuse in things lawful to concur to the support of each other. Now the magistracy doth offer Protection, and support to the ministery; if the ministery will not discern, and oppose the being of a magistracy.  
To this another added something to this effect: that the Commons of England, in parliament assembled, did claim by right and according to the Laws of the Nation the Supreme Legislative power, as residing originally in themselves, and not inherent in King and Lords; and that( if it were requisite to satisfy conscientious scruples) this might bee made out to the full; by showing that in the Legislative power of the Nation, King and Lords were but complimental forms and accidents, and no fundamental substances, or parts of the being of the governing power, So that no laws or government can bee without them: and that from the third Article of the National Covenant this might plainly bee gathered; because in it the King( upon whom the Lords were onely dependants) his Person and just authority were onely conditionally provided for, viz as being included in the preservation of Religion, and the liberties of the Nation. Then again to confirm this, it was further added by another; that at several conferences, more then once this had been  told the Lords; That the Commons understood their right to bee Supreme, in making Laws as they suppose them to bee needful, and that if the Lords would not concur with them, they had power and right to Act without them in providing for Commonsafetie, which they declared they were resolved to do: and in the Case of the Militia, some Lords were resolved to have come and sat with the Commons in their house, and owned thereby their right.  
These scruples being thus discussed, another in a more moderate way spake to this effect; That he had not hitherto acted with the parliament upon the ground of any positive Laws of the Land, but upon the ground of natural equity, and visible necessity for common safety; that concerning the submission due to superior powers, out of Rom. 13. Divines did differ in judgement; and that although there were more for one opinion then for another, yet the reasons of either side, and not their names would sway with him; That to justify a Title to Government some did take present possession to bee sufficient; as for mine own part( said he) I am sure that I have a just and clear title to what at present I possess; but that the Rulers in whose hands is the Government at present, have but a disputable and doubtful title to that which they possess is no less clear: now what equity there is in it, that I should lose all that I justly do possess by an indubitable title, because I do not acknowledge a title that is dubitable, as by the Act prescribing the taking of the Engagement( if I do not take it) I shall bee forced to do, is a thing whereof the Justice may bee questioned; Chiefly seeing none other matter of guilt can bee laid to my charge, but this, not acknowledging of a doubtful title; which I, for conscience sake, cannot do; and seeing in all things else I am not onely without blame, but have deserved for my concurrence with the parliament, and good services, a reward and prais from it, for all which considerations some expedient should bee thought upon how to eas and save tender consciences in this case, lest it bee found that they are more rigorously dealt withall, then very Malignants, who have been in Arms, and endeavoured to destroy the parliament, who have yet a fift of their estate left them when they are sequestered; but here the penalty of not subscribing the Engagement is to those that have been, and still are harmless, far heavier, because they are to bee outed of all, within a very short time, and that without remedy; therefore a twofold remedy was desired to bee procured to these inconveniencies, the one was that to such as merely for conscience sake could not subscribe, some way of eas should bee thought upon at present to give them more time to consider the matter; and in case of not being able to bring their conscience to subscribe to let them have some livelihood, they being truly harmless in their way. The other remedy to bee thought upon was, whether some explication or declaration of the sens of the Engagement might not bee given by the house, to help the weakness of well-meaning men; as that the negative part should bee taken to run with a non obstante, thus, Although the Common-wealth is now established without a King and house of Lords. Or that the word Common-wealth might bee understood throughout the Act in one uniform sens, which is but reasonable that in one and the same Act, the same principal word should have but one and the same meaning; and that this meaning of the word Common-wealth throughout the Act, should bee but the same, which is in the words of the Engagement.  
To the matter of this discourse several things were offered, and some things were in the thoughts of some to have been offered if time had permitted, which here shall briefly bee touched, together with the most material things which were offered so far as they are remembered.  
First, it was said, that if the point of plenary possession should bee pitched upon to bee considered, it might bee made out, that a full possession of the place of Government doth give a title to govern, and that all subjects owe submission to him who is in the place of power and government, in things pierce just and lawful; amongst which undeniably this is one, to bee true and faithful to the common welfare of the society wherein wee live: But besides the plenary possession there is a peaceable possession, which is laid as a ground in the Act for taking the Engagement; for the Preface of the Act doth show both the end for which the Engagement is to bee taken, and the right by which it is prescribed; the right is in the present peaceable possession of government; and the end is to preserve the Common-wealth in peace, and to unite all the members thereof in one way and relation towards each other, and towards their Superiors for common safety; now the settlement of that relation is absolutely necessary for safety, if therefore he that is possessed of all power & places of Government in a Common-wealth is to bee counted a Magistrate, and if a Magistrate possessing the government in peace should not in tend to settle this relation, that the public may bee preserved in peace; and that assurance may bee gained of mutual safety between subject and subject, and between himself and them in time to come, he would neglect the most fundamental duty of government, and make himself accessary to his own overthrow, and to the ruin of all; it is therefore absolutely necessary to have some engagement to settle a mutual relation for safety. Now the present Government having the whole power in their hands, and having given a years proof that they are able to give protection to those that are under them, and being desirous to assure all in the peaceable possession of that which they do enjoy, require of all a reciprocal testimony of their allegiance, which with a good conscience cannot bee refused unto them; and who ever doth refuse it, he will bee found without excuse when things are put home to his conscience, for the Magistrate hath hitherto don clearly what is his duty; which is to procure that, without which there can bee no safety or continued settlement in the Land: If therefore others, and chiefly those of the ministery do not their part towards the same end, the guilt of public ruin( if God bring's it upon us) will bee brought home to their account; and then what title soëver, and how clear or undeniable soëver it is to their present possession, it will bee lost by their own default. Nor will they lose their own rights alone, but they will bee the cause of hazarding all other mens possessions; therefore to prevent this evil( which in the foresight of the Government ought to bee as present) a just remedy is used, viz. a penalty is denounced, against those who make themselves the authors of ruin unto all; a penalty proportionable unto their fault, were to bee deprived of all being; but by the Act they are deprived onely of protection from that state to which they will not at all concur to give it any being and safety: he that will give the Magistrate no being over him, and doth what in him lies to deprive all his neighbors of their comfortable being about him, what right he can have to any being under the Magistrate; how he can with any face crave it of him; or what measure of comfortable protection he can expect to bee given him equal to his neigbors, who are faithful to the Government, is in common sens no ways imaginable: therefore the penalty is not to bee counted so rigorous; as just. As for the dubitable or indubitable titles to possessions, when all lies equally at the stake that can make no difference: nor can it bee doubted whether the title of supreme power is rightly attributed to those that are actually in possession of it; and that to the eyes of all the world, the possession of their place is as indubitably now theirs, as any man doth possess by any title whatsoëver. As for those who formerly have been in Arms, and being sequestered were permitted to have the fist part of their estate, whereas in the Act for subscribing the Engagement, this is not to bee granted to any non-subscriber, though heretofore never so faithful; the reason of the equity of this may easily bee understood, if the difference of the former, and if the present cases bee considered rationally; for the Cavaliers and those that appeared for the King against the parliament, had then a present visible power over them opposite to that of the parliament, and a standing relation to the King so long as he was in being, which they endeavoured to maintain so long as he was over them; although therefore they opposed the parliament, yet it was under the conduct of a visible power which did contest with the power of the parliament for the supremacy, and so they did what they did under the shield of a Protector, and were not themselves the prime authors of the disturbance of the State; but now in all this business the case is not so, the matter is quiter of another nature; the men that now will not engage, make themselves the prime authors of the disturbances which may ensue, even as the King made himself heretofore in a manner the sole author of these evils. The former relation is wholly dissolved, because there is none other government at all in being or in appearance but that which crave's Allegiance, the former power to those that had sworn Allegiance to it, had some title to give protection, though not that which it pretended unto; and therefore those that assisted it were the more excusable: but now there is no colour for any excuse to such as refuse Allegiance to present Protectors. The Cavaliers were guilty of hindering the reducement of the King to reason; but such as refuse to take the present Engagement, are guilty of dissolving all Government, so far as in them lieth; and of reducing all our settlement now in view unto a ruinous confusion. And although heretofore they have gon along with the parliament, what will it avail the parliament, and the Nation, if when they have don a geeat deal for them a long while, they in one moment undo it all again? If you draw up a bond, and sign it, and seal it, and promis in it a fair estate unto me; but in stead of delivering it to me, tear it in pieces before my face, what the better am I for your bond's? is it not a greater dis-respect and reproach unto me, then if no bond had been intended towards me? Gods way of dealing with the children of israel, who being come to the border of the Land of Canaan, would not enter into it, but murmured against their settlement in it, and took up thoughts to return again to Egypt, to bee under pharaoh, will justify the equity of this sentence; for he deprived them of all their right to have any possession in it, although they had followed him from Egypt, and through the whole Wilderness. Thus then the penalty is but just, that such as murmur against the settlement of a free Common-wealth in this Nation, should bee deprived of the benefit thereof; and of an establishment therein, because they will not enter into any relation towards it.  
Lastly, concerning the expedients to procure eas and a remedy to tender consciences, nothing could bee don therein, but by the house, and what possibility there might bee to move the house rationally thereunto, was not at all in view; yet as to the matter of execution, and inflicting the punishment, the power to judge who are more or less guilty, and who came or came not within the compass of the Act, will bee in the hand of the Committee of indemnity: whose work it will bee perhaps, amongst other things, to consider how men are scrupled harmlessly or hurtfullie, and what assurance they will bee able to give, or not to give of their good behaviour in after-times, and accordingly in all likelihood they will deal with them.  
something was afterward enquired into, concerning the true meaning of the words, True and Faithful; and the answer was, That the words were to bee understood in a Legal sens, as when a Tenant takes an Oath of fealty to a Lord of a Mannor, his promise is not to betray him, or do him prejudice, but to perform all duties proper to a Tenant and annexed to the tenor of his Farm. So that in the sens of the Law to bee true and faithful must bee understood with a respect to the condition in which one is that makes it; as importting the duties which are proper thereunto.  
something also was declared concerning the word Commonwealth, that if the meaning thereof were explained to bee that which I. D. has in his considerations, that then it was conceived few or none would scruple at the subscribing of the Engagement.   

A Memorandum Feb. 22. 1649.  
THe motion to endeavour a reconcilement of differences, and a good understanding between Brethren engaged in the same cause, for the advancement of common safety, and to beget a friendly concurrence in matters of public concernment, was renewed, after that the intent of the Discourses which should bee entertained, was recommended unto God by prayer.  
To further this motion one did offer, that the most ready and expedient way to engage the affections of men that were godly and conscientious, would bee to find out some eas for them, lest for their scruple of conscience they might not bee utterly undone; for the rigorous execution of the penalty denounced in the Act against non-subscribers of the Engagement, being inflicted upon well-deserving and harmless men, would break and dissolve all to pieces; whereas a tenderness of affection to such as were of a tender conscience would gain the hearts of those that mean well, and would extremely well-beeseem those who have hitherto pleaded for an exemption from penalties in reference to scruples of conscience.  
Hereupon another offered that to take into consideration the way of giving satisfaction to those that were scrupled would bee a clearer and readier way to unite men's intentions; and that it hopefully might bee don, could bee conjectured by former experiences in the debates and conferences held at the making of the National Covenant, wherein at last the differences of opinions were removed, and all agreed in one sens to have a mind to carry on the work of Reformation; and if now they, who are scrupled at the Engagement could( as is supposed they might) receive satisfaction to their doubts, then the labour of seeking how to eas them from the danger of a penalty might bee spared; which eas would not settle their conscience at al, but only their outward estates; nor make them useful at all to the public, but onely settle them rather at a distance from it. But if their conscience can bee gained to a concurrence with the present settlement; then not onely the cause of their fears, but the inconveniency of their distance from their brethren will bee removed; therefore this was offered as the most expeditious way to gain the end which was sought for: chiefly seeing it cannot well bee expected, that any man can give a settled assurance of his harmlessness towards the State concerning which he doth profess himself unsettled in conscience, what to think of it; for according to imergencies his conscience may oblige him to act otherwise hereafter then now liee is inclined to do: but if his conscience bee clear of doubts, both he and they to whom he doth engage himself, may promise to themselves a constancy of concurrence, which is the thing aimed at.  
Another offered between these 2 advices a medium, showing, that of right the point of Satisfaction should have the precedency; but because it might prove a very long and difficult work to compass, and many preparatives would beerequisite unto it; and the present urgent necessities seem to require some speedy resolution towards the way of an amiable correspondency, to give assurance, and lay the grounds of common safety, lest sudden breaches might prevent, and disturb all future endeavours of mutual satisfaction, therefore the thoughts concerning the point of eas might bee in some general way reflected upon and sought out, that the matters belonging to the satisfaction of conscience afterward with less trouble of mind might bee with leisure, and maturely considered, whereunto many things would bee requisite to be predetermined, before a satisfactory conclusion could bee hoped for: As for example, What principles should be agreed upon? what on all sides must bee granted to bee clear unto the conscience rightly informed? by what rules wee should proceed to decide and deduce doubtful matters from known principles? how and in what order matters should bee proposed? and what Cautions to bee used to prevent endless debates? all which would require much time and serious thoughts; and then when wee should come to particulars, it would bee found that all the scruples of every one are not the same, but some will rise one way, some another; and about the same scruples, that which will satisfy one, will not bee clear and satisfactory unto another; and how to prevent the inconveniences, and intricacies of the discourse, which may arise for want of foresight in these matters; and will make all the attempts of satisfaction fruitless, as to Conscience, could not of a sudden bee spoked to: And therefore to prepare a way to gain true satisfaction upon solid grounds, the point of eas might at first bee considered, at least so far as to have some prospect of the possibility thereof. To this another made a reply, that in reference to common safety and the security of the State, and for laying the grounds of settlement, it would not bee at all expedient to advance the point of eas, before the point of satisfaction; that although a full satisfaction could not speedily bee given to those that were scrupled, yet that the main of their scruples might bee looked upon, and a trial made to remove the grounds thereof, which happily might bring more inward eas to those that seek eas in outward things, then any uncertain hopes can yield, which upon conjectural appearances may bee proposed, for when all shall bee reviewed which may in probability reach forth an expedient to eas; yet nothing can bee effectually determined, but still wee shall bee in suspens, whether or no the eas desired may bee obtained from the superior powers; but if wee enter upon the discourse of satisfying scruples, as it is the most natural method to begin with that Subject; so it will yield a certain profit to the public concernments so far as it may prove useful to remove the mistakes which occasion doubts and discontentments. Therefore the point of satisfaction was offered to have the precedency.  
This also carried it, and the method whereinto the discourse did fall naturally was this; that in the proposal of scruples, such as declared where they did stick, first shewed how far they could comply with the present Government; and then what the matter was wherein they were scrupled, which in some was onely to subscribe the Engagement in terminis: in others it was something more; they who desired onely to bee excused from subscribing the Engagement in terminis, declared that they could acknowledge the parliament to bee a Government: and as being under their power and protection, not to dispute their Title, nor to practise any thing in word or dead directly or indirectly against them, nor to join with any party at home or abroad to their prejudice, but to bee peaceable and quiet; and in things just and lawful obedient for the public good to their commands. And when some had thus far opened themselves to the grat content of others, a motion was made that all the rest who were scrupled should bee induced to open themselves in the same way, as others had don. But unto this motion an Answer was made, that no such thing ought to bee imposed upon any, but that it ought to bee free to every one to declare himself, or to bee silent as he should see cause; and in such a manner as he should think good; either for a compliance or against it: To this Answer some thing was replied which begot a small debate, concerning the way of proceeding, which had this issue, that others who could not come up to such a compliance as others formerly had declared they could condescend unto, did open themselves so far as their light and affections did led them. These could not own the Government, but manifested a resolution to yield onely Passive obedience; and one or two of them enlarged themselves to show the exceptions which they had against the present establishment; the first that spake at large upon this Subject, gave a Sens of every word of the Engagement, which he excepted against in a fivefold respect( if I bee well remembered) viz. As a Christian, as a Protestant ▪ as an English man, as a Parlamentier, and as a Covenanter: to which some brief reply was made rather to state the question, and contract all to the main point of doubt, then to give particular answers to things which were alleged, because the time was far spent; but another of the scruplers who spake last, opened himself to this effect; that besides all the doubts which others had hitherto raised; some against the standing and being of the Government; some against the proceedings thereof; some against the words of the Engagement; some against the subscribing thereof; there was yet to him one scruple above all the rest, which he found to bee the ground of all his dissatisfaction; and believed it to bee so with many more, viz. That the house of Commons was discomposed, and in a manner,( as he called it, craving leave to use the word) broken by force. For( said he) suppose al to bee true, which hath been alleged, to satisfy the main of the scruples, which have been, mentioned, viz. That the Supreme Law-making and governing power, is neither in the King nor house of Lords; but in the representatives of the Commons: and that therefore as the Emergencies have required, the government, as to the outward form hath been formerly by them alterable; and might now have been perhaps lawfully upon these Emergencies altered, had they been the true Representatives of the Commons; that is an entire house: but if it cannot bee made appear that they who now sit are a true house, but onely a company of men, or a part of the house sitting under a visible force; then it may bee doubted justly whether this house of Commons hath any just title to that Legislative and supreme Power, which otherwise might have belonged unto it. This scruple was at this time onely thus proposed; and the Answer to bee given to it, was referred till the next occasion of discourse, because then it was late, and not seasonable to enter vpon so weighty a matter.   

A MEMORANDUM, March 1, 1649.  
AFter prayers, both parties declared their intentions to bee none other, but to entertain, as friends, a private and familiar discourse: the one to propose their doubts concerning the present Government, that they might bee resolved; the other to offer unto those that were scrupled at the present proceeding of the Government; the grounds upon which they did think them justifiable, and whereby they did satisfy their own conscience in concurring with them. So that if God would bee pleased to bless the Consideration thereof unto those that were scrupled to rectify their mistakes, there might bee thenceforth a better understanding and more hearty concurrence between them, as it becometh brethren, in the prosecution of the same cause.  
This being on both sides premised; the doubt, which in the foregoing conference was last proposed, was repeated, and insisted upon at large, by him who offered it in the close of the former discourse, who set himself to show( not by way of assertion, but onely by way of scruple, that his doubt might bee cleared) that neither the house of Commons according to the Law of the Land, though full, was invested with the supreme Legislative power; nor this present house in a capacity to have that power. And to show the first it was said, That the known and undoubtedly fundamental Law of the Land was this; that the parliament of England is to bee constituted of King, Lords and Commons; that the house of Lords was the Supreme Judicature of the Nation, and that the house of Commons, though full, was so far from being the judicature, that ordinarily it had not so much power as to give an Oath, yet that this present house had now in their late proceedings taken this upon them, and altered the former course of having a King and Lords in parliament, which how it could bee warranted was not understood although wee should suppose the house to bee full, and not liable to any exception.  
But now that a part of the house had taken all this upon them by putting down both King and house of Lords, was not conceivable to bee justifiable by any Law either positive or natural.  
To the second, to show that this present house was not in a capacity to have this power; it was said, that it might bee thought to bee no house; because the mayor part of the Members thereof were violently detained from doing their duty in it, which was such a breach of privilege, as the like was never known; and because all their Acts since the beginning of this change hitherto, have been don under a visible force, and by consequent voided, and of none effect to bind as Laws.  
To this( which was the summary of a large discourse, wherein many particular matters were circumstantiated) two things were answered, relating to the heads thereof: The first was to show that the house of Commons did claim by right, as the emergencie might bee, the Legislative and Supreme power of the Nation. The second was to show that this present house is justly to bee accounted an house, and to all intents and purposes hath as just a title to this Legislative power, as the case may bee, as ever any house had.  
Concerning the first, that the house of Commons, that is the Representatives of the Nation, did by right claim to themselves, as the case might bee emergent, the Supreme and Legislative power without the King and Lords house, this was made apparent, because it doth belong to the Representatives of a free people to choose the Laws by which they should bee ruled, and that it is against the end and being of a parliament( which in nature is nothing but the meeting of the Representatives of a Nation) that any Laws should bee imposed upon them: Now where the Law-making power is originally, there is radically the supremacy of power; for above the Law nothing can bee but the power which makes it, which never did reside in the King, because the making of Laws was never debated with him: And for the Lords their meeting was originally onely as the Kings dependants and councellors, therefore in equity they can pretend to no more then is his right, whose councellors and dependants they are. And that this is asserted according to the Law and Custom of the Land, will appear by the difference of the Writs by which the Members of both Houses are called to sit in parliament, and by the course of the Commons, acting in this parliament towards the King, towards the Lords, and towards the public.  
The Writs by which the Lords are called to sit in parliament, mention onely ad consultandum de arduis Regni; but the Writs by which the Commons are called do mention that their meeting is ad determinandum & faciendum, &c. which are things of a higher and different nature. And seeing by the Act of continuance their Session cannot bee dissolved without their own consent, they may lawfully sit as long as they see cause to determine and act in the supremacy of power, that which common safety doth require; for by the Law of their continuance as Representatives, they are impowred to administer in a Parlamentarie way, and manage as long as is necessary for public safety the whole trust of the Common-wealth by themselves; that is, without King and House of Lords, as the cause may bee emergent, and as they shall find necessary for the peoples good: Nor can they receive from others, or put upon themselves an incapacity, to consult, determine, and act what ever in their judgments doth occur to the interest and advantage of those that have entrusted them; and however the King, and house of Peers have been heretofore taken in, or rather have obtruded themselves to share in the Legislative power with the peoples Representatives, yet may it not bee doubted, but such the case might bee, that without and against both King and house of Peers, the peoples Representatives both of Right and duty, might and ought to proceed and act, what ever in their judgments was necessary for the peoples safety and good. Nor can it well bee conceived how any should doubt of this, who can bee at leisure without prejudice seriously to consider the natural ground of the just Constitution of Government in a free people, which having the original of all just power in itself, to manage its own affairs; and the exercise of that power being put in the hands of Representatives, their trust must needs bee of an unlimited extent, to do all what is necessary for the peoples good, so that they may put forth the power of the Nation in such manner, and into such forms as the present time and emergencie shall hold forth to them most conducting for public good, with such amendments and alterations of the same as they from time to time shall find necessary and expedient; and as every rational man may conceive this, so it will appear wholly undeniable, to those who have been engaged in the cause of the parliament against the late King: for without manifest self-condemnation they cannot dispute or deny the truth of this Assertion; for as it is evident throughout, that this Assertion was maintained by both Houses in opposition to the Kings pretences of Prerogative; so the peoples Representatives took liberty as the emergencie gave occasion to assert as their Right, and put in practise as their duty, what ever occurred to them as necessary for the peoples good without and against the house of Peers, and this long before that house was removed; and which may bee remembered, the Representatives of the people were excited and encouraged thereunto, and commended therein, by those very men who now are become disputers and contradicters against this exercise of their power, yea long before they had reduced the common enemy; for it may not bee forgotten that when the house of Peers, delayed and refused to pass the Bill for the Militia, the house of Commons in their messages declared to them, that how ever they sought their concurrence so earnestly, yet it was more out of respect to their persons, then an apprehension of desect of authority in themselves, and therefore  told them often, that however they desired to have the Lords sharing in the honor of saving the Nation from tyranny, yet if they continued to delay their concurrence, they might not forget where the greatest trust was reposed, but held themselves obliged to proceed with the Militia, and what ever else should bee found necessary to save the Nation without, and against them; and how frequently this was inculcated by Mr Pym, and how far improved by Mr Hollis in their Messages delivered to the house of Lords, in the name of the house of Commons, is notoriously known; and as this was asserted for an undoubted right in 41 and 42: So was it remarkably put in practise in 43 and 44, about the time that Bristol was lost, and Gloucester besieged; the Lords delaying and refusing to join with the Commons in an Ordinance for the levying and raising a thousand horse in and about the city of London, for the defence of the Nation against the common enemy; the house of Commons by an Act of their own, ordered the same to bee levied and raised, and required the Committee for the Militia of London to grant Commissions to the Officers, who were autorised to fight and kill, and slay, in as full and ample a manner as others that had authority from both Houses, and accordingly did proceed to the reducing of Newport-Pagnel, Grafton house, &c. so that it was judged then that the supremacy of power lay in the peoples Representatives, in the Commons house of parliament, without and against both King, and house of Lords; insomuch, that some of the Lords declared a willingness, in case the rest of their house, which were the mayor part, would not concur in such emergencies with the Commons, that they would quit the house of Peers, and come and sit with the Commons. Nor may it bee forgotten how the city of London, represented by the Lord Maior, Aldermen and Common-Council, gave in their full and seasonable testimony to this truth, who observing the house of Lords to delay and deny the continuation of a Committee of both Kingdoms, because the Scots were conjoined with the Members of the parliament of England; as also observing how much in duty and interest they were obliged above and against either K. or house of Lords to stand by, and assist the house of Commons, in what by them was judged good for the safety and welfare of the Nation, did declare that they held themselves obliged to observe their Acts and Orders, although the Lords did not join with them, and prayed them to go on in endeavouring the Nations preservation, and that what they did alone, should bind and oblige them to a ready and cheerful obedience.  
Notice also may bee taken of other acts of supremacy of power put forth by the house of Commons without the Lords, wherein they owned the right of Legislative authority as the emergencie might bee to belong unto them without King and Lords; as for instance, When the Protestation was made, the Commons by themselves without the Lords, made an Order, in the nature of a Law, that whosoëver did not take it, should not sit in parliament; and before that time a long while they did suspend the ordinary execution of a standing Law without the concurrence of the Lords; for when a riot was committed at Lambeth against my Lord of canterbury, the Commons did fee cause to inhibit the execution, which by the course of the Law was intended to bee set a foot at Southwark, which was an Act of no less authority, then the making of a Law. At another emergencie, after the King had been in the house to fetch out the Members, the house did adjourn itself in form of a Committee, and sat as Grocers Hall with in London to provide for common safety, where they made use of the supremacy of their power, to manage and sway the whole course of public affairs, as they then saw cause; upon which the King taking his across resolutions, and deserting the parliament, al the other changes since have followed; since which time in all cases of imminent danger, they have don things of the like nature, as to settle Orders, to lay taxes, & to order the Militia without the Lords when they did linger or refuse to concur; and in such actings as these, the Ministers of the city of London, and assembly, did concur with others well-affected to the cause in Petitions, to give the house of Commons encouragement to proceed, offering to live and die with them in the prosecution of their trust for common safety; not onely without, but( if otherwise it could not bee) against the King and house of Lords, although now upon other interests, or rather mistakes of right and duties, the case seems much altered with them. So that to sum up this part of the discourse, the assertion was this, That the house of Commons did challenge the right of Supreme power to itself by the Law of Nature in their Trust, by the positive Law, and Writs, by which they are called to act and determine matters in parliament, by clear Declarations to the King, to the Lords, and to all the world, by their uncontrollable, and justifiable practise, upon all emergent occasions of necessity( whereof the Commons are alone the Judges, as being the Trustees of the Nation for the safety thereof) and by the approbation and assistance of the city, and of the Ministers themselves, who formerly cried up this right in the Representatives, although now they seem to make a scruple of conscience at it.  
As for the objection made hereunto, that however this might bee the right of the house of Commons as the emergencie required, and it became the people of this Nation out of duty, and in order to their own interest and good, to stand by them with assistance upon all such occasions, yet they might not remove the house of Peers, as now they have don.  
To this the Answer is; That if it bee admitted, that the supremacy of power resided in the Commons, and ought by them to bee exercised alone as the necessity might bee; then doubtless a necessity appearing, they might not onely act without, and against the house of Peers, but might suspend or remove them in order to the peoples good; and as it might have hazarded the peace of the Nation to have admitted them a continuance, and yet not have consulted with them, so doubtless it would not have added to their Lordships honor upon such an account to bee left sitting.  
Nor will it bee impertinent to observe that the house of Peers removed themselves first, not onely by acting that which in a judicial way made them uncapable of trust or power, by an act of delinquency of their own, whilst they not onely delayed and denied to declare Hamilton and his army invading the Nation to bee enemies to it; but in stead thereof, gave voluntary assistance to them by so far approving their enterprise, as to order the Printing and publishing of that Declaration, wherein the Justice and necessity of Hamiltons coming into England was impudently asserted; and this they did, as a house, though themselves had not onely concurred in making Ordinances that declared this Treason, but had upon several cases upon appeals resolved and adjudged that such an assistance was undoubted delinquency. It might bee added, that themselves dissolved that house whilst they all withdrew and left it without adjournment, and this before the house of Commons had by Act declared the remomoval of it.  
Concerning the Second, That this present assembly of the Trustees of the Nation is to al intents and purposes an house, and hath as just a title to this Legislative and supreme power as ever any house had; this was made apparent by the present constitution of the house, and by the clearing of mistakes which are entertained concerning the breach of privilege, and the force which is conceived to have been used against the house.  
Such as look upon the present constitution of the house as defective in authority, because they want their full number, and many that are Members, are excluded wrongfully to the breach of privileges, which the Covenant obliges them to maintain; may bee pleased to call to mind that the number of forty to all intents and purposes hath always made, and doth make a full house when they are orderly met; and they may easily bee informed that more then four times that number sit at present in the house, and have taken the Engagement.  
Perhaps such as make this Objection, either know not, or remember not, that usually from 1642 till 1645 there sate not above siftie or sixty in the house of Commons, although as great transactions, as ever were in parliament, was by that number carried on, and that oft times without and against not onely King, but house of Lords. Such as in former time by voluntary absence deserted their trust, or went to Oxford, could not make the authority of these that remained, and were faithful to their trust, voided; but they were ever counted to all intents and purposes a house, and their Acts valid, although more have been absent then present at the making thereof: for what ever may bee the cause of the absence of such as appear not; that can derogate nothing from the right of those that are present. It may bee also that these Objectors know not the Nature of Parlament-priviledg, which then properly is broken, when their Honor and authority is upon some account or other slighted or opposed: and of this none but the parliament or house itself can bee judge; none without doors( except when the house hath determined and declared the matter) can judge what the privileges of the house are, and what is a breach of them. So that sometimes the arresting of a Members servant hath been judged a breach of privilege, and at other times not onely the apprehending, but the forcible detaining of a Member of parliament without the privity, much less direction of parliament from attending the service of the house, is so far from being a breech of privilege, that it becomes an acceptable service to the parliament and Common-wealth; and so was judged in the Case of Master Waller; who, without acquainting the house before hand therewith, was laid by the heels; and yet when those that did it, had given the house an account of the cause, and that all the house had considered the matter; it thanked those that had detained him, and condemned Waller in ten thousand pounds, and banished him the Land. In like manner the Hothams, both Father and Son, men in places of eminent trust; they were detained without any fore knowledge of the house; and Master 〈◇〉 that served as Burgess of 〈◇〉 in Sussex, was used in the same kind and kept from the house. By which precedents it is apparent, that the forcible detaining of Members without doors, as the cause may bee, doth not break the privilege of the house: chiefly when the house having taken the matter into consideration, hath declared the cause of the detention to bee just, and itself fully satisfied concerning the same: as in this Case of the Armies detaining the several Members from the house, hath been don; so that the house itself hath added their own Order, that none of them should come in, till they had given satisfaction to the house: Whence it may bee thought reasonable, that others ought not to express their dissatisfaction by calling that a breach of privilege, which the house itself upon a serious debate hath judged otherwise, and which alone is the judge of its own privileges. Nor doth the Number of Members detained alter the nature of the thing in itself; for what may bee don to one, or two, may bee don to more, if the cause bee the same. For when all the Bishops, who were wont to bee called a distinct State, were by a tumult forcibly detained from the house of Peers, and they had made a Protestation against the Houses, that because they were detained violently from discharging their trust, that all which should bee don in their absence, should bee null and voided; Both Houses then jointly of Lords and Commons, did inflict a censure of the highest nature upon them; & deprived them of the right of sitting ever any more in parliament, nor was that force by which all the spiritual Lords were kept from coming to the house judged a force either upon the parliament or upon the L. house; so that to detain Members few or many, as cause may bee, from coming to the house, is no breach of privilege to those that remain, except they being a house judge it so, and find their Honor, Freedom, or authority, prejudged thereby. And if this Argument which the Bishops then used, should now bee allowed; not onely many Members would condemn themselves in the past proceedings of parliament, ere the War broken forth; when some pretended their privilege was broken by the affront and terrors put upon them by Prentices and others: But in effect all the foundation of Government and authority would bee dissolved: for if a forcible detention or any other accident preventing, some Members( bee the number never so many) so as that Quorum remains, which Constitutes a house) shall bee ground enough for persons without doors, to arraign and judge the authority and being of parliament: Will not this lay the Ax to the root thereof, and give occasion to as many as will desire it, to take to themselves a dispensation from being under the Reverence of any authority or Law? So then although it may bee granted that in these late transactions some things have not been observed, which in point of formality should have been regarded, in case the extraordinary Emergencies could have suffered so much delay, as the usual legal manner of proceeding did require: yet that being granted, can no way prejudg the right which the present Assembly of Representatiues have to the supreme authority of the Nation, because a default in the circumstantial manner of proceeding about necessary concernments, cannot bee made destructive to the foundation of the whole, or main being of Government and authority in a State.  
But this Scruple was further pressed by an Objection taken from the time wherein both Houses declared that the parliament was under a force; namely, when the Prentices came and assaulted both Houses, for that which then was pretended to bee don, was declared to bee in itself null and voided, So now à Pari, by virtue of that Declaration, this force which the army hath used being greater then that which the Prentices did use; the present Acts of the house may bee counted null, till the separated Members return again to the possession of their places; chiefly seeing the force by which they were separated doth still continue; but in the former Case, when the Prentices assaulted the Houses, the force did discontinue: So that the house then may bee thought to have acted more freely then now it doth, by how much that force was less, and of less continuance then this; Whereunto a Reply was made to this effect.  
1. That it must bee considered, that when the Speaker had by Order of the Houses adjourned the house to the next day, and left the Chair, the doors being thrown and kept open, it could not at all properly bee called a house; much less had they any reason to Act as by the authority of the house, who were privy to these proceedings; What ever therefore after the adjournment was don, was not to bee counted an Act of the house.  
2. That the house during the time of the absence of the Speaker, was not free; for although the Prentices were prohibited to return upon pain of death; yet divers of the Members, who then sate in the house, did represent unto the house, that they did not sit in safety, but were without protection; so that they were at the mercy of any that would have assaulted them against the prohibition; for they had no safeguard to trust to, nor any power which they could command for their security: but did lye open to the attempts of those whom they could not trust, but still feared; nor did the house, whereof Master Pelham was the Speaker, ever vote itself to bee free from fear, or safe without danger of further force. Therefore also some of these that went not away to the army, but stayed, did enter afterward the Engagement which the Members that went to the army made with it, for their security: and when the Speaker returned with the other Members under the protection of the army, they voted themselves a free house, and not till then, which implied that they understood themselves to have been under a force all the time before.  
3. That the force used by Prentices, and the force which the army used, against some of the Members, were wholly of a different Nature; which will appear by the Comparison of the one with the other. The Prentices did force the house itself within doors but the army did use force not upon the house itself but onely upon a considerable number of the Members, and without doors. The Prentices intended to set upon the house in its Parlamentarie and essential actings; for they came within the house, they stood at the Bar with their hats upon their heads, they caused the Question to bee put as they would have it; and forced them to Vote what they would have Voted; and kept them in the house after they had adjourned, and would not let them go home, but threatened to starv them there, except they Voted what they would have them to Vote: all which made their Votes ipso facto voided and null; by reason of the nature of the force, although the house had not been formerly adjourned; which upon another account made also their Votes wholly null. But the force used by the army was onely intended against some particular men, whom they discovered to bee fals unto their trust, and to endeavour to betray the cause,( for the defence of which the army was commissioned) into the late Kings hands: they intended to offer no disturbance to any of the rest of the Members, or to molest any actings of the house, but they proceeded as freely as ever they did in their lives: and still, since this guard hath been about them, to preserve them from outward assaults of enemies, they have never been molested within doors, no more then when the guard of Citizens was about them to preserve them from the danger which the Kings evil Counsel intended against them.  
4. That although the house, wherein Master Pelham was in the Chair, sate for a few daies free, without any visible appearance of force; yet all the Actings of that house being grounded upon Votes gotten by mere force, after the adjournment of the house, and tending to rais a war destructive to the Common-wealth, were declared by the house when it was restored to its integrity to bee ipso facto null, because the very foundation of their frame and standing, upon which they did Act, was a nullity and unparlamentarie: whereunto this is further to bee added, that although for a time the army did detain the Members which were not counted faithful to their trust, yet so many of them as were willing to clear themselves from the cause of suspicion, and give the house satisfaction of their uprightness to the cause, were invited to return; so that they cannot bee said to bee excluded otherwise, then by themselves discontinuing to act in their places, and forsaking their trust.  
Besides all this, those that made this objection were desired to remember, who they were that formerly contested against the Declaration which is now alleged as an argument to make the actings of the present house voided; and if they have forgot their Reasons, yet they may call to mind the intent of their Votes, and what careful provision was made, that nothing of that kind should bee a president for the future: and they that urge this matter now, must take heed of precipitating by passing a judgement of this nature upon any particular Act, till the parliament itself judge it so, lest whilst they too much hold forth such a principle to bring in another Government, they do unadvisedly, and against their own good meaning strengthen the hands of some others, who seek to undermine and overthrow both this and that form of Government; and in stead thereof either drop the Nation into a most certain and perfect state of slavery upon the account of conquest, or drown the Nation in anarchy and confusion. It is therefore apparent that all objections of this nature against the present established Government, do savour more of a spirit that contend's for victory, then for Truth and common safety.  
The objection taken from the Covenant by which some did think themselves obliged to another Government, was answered thus, That if they engaged with the parliament against the late King upon Parlament-principles, which in Covenant are expressed; the same principles which carried them hitherto on their way, if they will be faithful to them, will carry them through this passage of it also; for if they could not apprehended that both Houses were above the King in point of trust and power, and that as the case might bee, the greatest trust and power did reside in the house of Commons; it is much to bee wondered that ever they went so far as hitherto they have don in the Parlament's cause, and not to bee wondered that now they fall back; but if they did apprehended these principles as truths, and consistent with the meaning of the Covenant, which certainly the first contrivers of the Covenant so understood; it is to bee wondered what should now make them fall back upon pretence of the Covenant; for doubtless they who are satisfied with the supremacy of power which the Commons have all along owned and acted, need nothing further to help their persuasion to give obedience to that authority in every thing which is not sinful.  
The Covenant is so far from making voided the Allegiance due to the present Government, as that it admit's a case to bee, and the Supremest power of the Nation have judged and declared that now, that case is, that by virtue of the Covenant the people of this Nation are obliged to assist and promove the present established Government; for as much as in the judgement of parliament it appears best for the recovery and preservation of this Nations just liberties, and consequently of the true Religion also, unto which primary ends all other clauses in the Covenant are but subordinate, at least, as the case now stands the receding from this Government, hazard's the loss of the whole; and surely no man that is serious, can imagine it reasonable that the parliament to try conclusions should make so great an adventure.  
And if neither the removal of the late King, nor the Act of the present Government that remove's Kingship, can dissolve the bond that is pretended to remain; it may bee asked to what individual it does oblige? who the late successors are? as to that which concerns authority, it's visibly the present parliament; and if it were possible for an other King to bee, yet by Act of parliament, none must bee owned as such, but he whom the parliament shall declare to bee King.  
But it is very probable, that these pretences are taken up by some, who being satisfied that the present Government is likely to prevent and disappoint the carrying on of a different interest, find it safest( especially if they should declare themselves willing to sit quiet, and bee faithful unto it) rather to frame objections against the unlawfulness then against the disadvantages of it. So that the sum of all result's to this, that however they can bee content to receive the benefit in common with the whole Nation, and some peculiar advantages over and above, and this not onely for that there is a Government continued, but more immediately from this that is now established, yet that themselves may bee free, and that they may preserve others, to bee for the introducing and receiving a form of Government different from this wherein their own private interest may bee more advanced.  
And this is the more likely to bee their aim, under this pretence of conscience towards the Covenant, because contrary to moral equity and ingenuity, they desire to bee excused from owning the present magistracy, from which they yet desire protection; and because contrary to the clear rule of conscience in christianity they fall under a direct disobedience to all those Scriptures, specially in the New Testament, which require obedience to those that are in authority; which Scriptures are by the holy Ghost dictated in such a juncture of time, and directed to such a generation of men, as had the same grounds which these pretend to have, and abundantly more, to have invited the people to a disowning of their Rulers. For whether you consult our saviour, or his Apostles in relation to this subject, ye will find that the Governors were Heathens, their government Tyrannical, and as they were usurpers of it, so had usurped it, from that very people on whom they called for obedience: and our saviour himself begins the president, and give's them voluntary assistance in tribute, not lest otherwise they take offence, but lest wee give them offence, saith our blessed saviour; and the Apostles held forth the same copy backed with pertinent arguments to this effect. This Heathen Governor, though he hath usurped his power; yet as his power is of God, so he is Gods Minister for good to thee, under whom thou mayest led a holy life in all godliness and honesty; for this cause therefore, and for conscience sake, as your duty, not for fear of wrath; pay ye tribute, custom, and honor, and see ye bee behind in nothing that is required of you, which in its own nature is not unlawful. Thus Paul to the Romans chap. 13. arguing the equity of obedience to Magistrates, though Pagans and Usurpers, upon the same consideration as he conclude's that Ministers should have maintenance, because he is Gods Minister for good to thee, saith the Apostle; and it is observable that in those primitive times there was a root of bitterness in the mindes of subjects unto their Superiors like unto that which now appears in some; for some servants professing christianity did entertain thoughts of irregular freedom against their Masters upon the account of their irreligiousness or frowardness; and some that pretended to be teachers of others were not afraid to speak evil of Dignities, and despise Dominions, 2 Pet. 2. and Jud. against whose unconscionable practices the Apostles did give rules of submission, and universal obedience in things just and lawful to all souls towards their Governors.  
some other Discourses to this same and the like purposes were alleged by those that entertained the Conference which cannot all bee called to mind, and need not to bee severally related: yet one thing amongst others deserve's to bee remembered, concerning the argument used to prove that the house of Commons could not bee esteemed to have the right of Supreme and Legislative power, because it had not the power to give an oath, which was answered by one, who vouchsafe Mr. Seldens speech in the house in answer to that objection to this effect. That the power of giving an oath, is useful onely in order to judge of particular matters, that it is a subordinate and inferior act of power, and not fit to bee ordinarily attended by the Supreme itself, which put's forth particular acts of judicature and power by Deputies who are authorized to examine matters upon oath: wheresoever then the Legislative and Supreme power doth in any measure reside, it comprehend's in it all subordinate power by way of eminency, and may, as the emergencie may bee, put forth all the particular acts thereof, whether by way of Judicature, or otherwise, as they shall see cause; but the proper work of the Supreme authority is to empower by Laws, and settled Orders, others to see those Laws kept, and justice accordingly executed against the transgressors thereof; to which effect particular Judicatures and the authority of giving oaths is subordinate.  
So then it is not because they want right, but because it is below them to make use of it; for which cause the Judicature of particular Causes was primarily referred to the Lords house, as to the last appeal; the Representatives of the Nation in the house of Commons being primarily intent to settle and choose the Laws by which all Judges were to judge all Cases, and to attend the main trust of the safety of the Nation, in all other Emergencies whatsoever, which is properly the Supreme work, and peculiar to the representatives of the People in parliament assembled, above all others in the Nation of what degree and quality soever they may bee.  
At the conclusion of the Conference, the Gentlemen who had endeavoured to satisfy the doubts of the scrupled party, declared that they had don it in a private way, upon the grounds of Christian charity, to give satisfaction to them, as to their Brethren, lest they might entertain hard and offensive thoughts against them, as if they did not walk in the light, and by conscionable grounds in their present Actings with the parliament, which now they had laid open to prevent future, and rectify former mistakes; which end if they had attained, they said they had cause to rejoice thereat: but if not, that yet they had uprightly endeavoured it, and that they had heard nothing from the other side which did shake the grounds of their resolution still to proceed. And having thus don their duty towards them, they did acquiesce therein: but if the Gentlemen of the other side would reciprocally favour them with the like account of the grounds of their present proceedings, it would bee very acceptable, if they show how they could warrant their Conscience; either as Christians would by the Law of God, or as good Subjects and Common-wealths men by the Law of the Land, in refusing to obey in things per se, good and lawful, the powers that are in Actual possession of the supremacy; although it were( which of these Powers it cannot bee) supposed, that they are unlawful: And to discourse of this Subject, how they could make this appear warrantable, an offer was made to give them another meeting at a time which should bee found expedient. But this motion was not entertained, and so the further conferences of this matter ceased.   
FINIS.