SEVERAL PAPERS OF THE TREATY BETWEEN His Excellency JAMES Marquis of ORMOND, Lord Lieutenant General of IRELAND for the KING, on the one part; AND Sir Thomas Wharton, Sir Robert King, Sir John Clotworthy, Sir Robert Meredith, Knights, and Richard Salwey Esquire, Commissioners authorized by the Two Houses of PARLIAMENT of ENGLAND; on the other part. With the Commissioners Instructions concerning the Lord of Ormond; the Instructions concerning the Protestants of Ireland, & Compositions of Delinquents: His Excellency's Propositions, and the Commissioners their Answer; and the Lord Lieutenants Reply. With their Reply to all his Exceptions. And the Kings Maj. Directions. DUBLIN: Printed by William Blad●n, Printer to the Kings most Excellent Majesty, Anno Dom. 1646. At the Committee of Lords and Commons, at Derby house. BY Virtue of an Ordinance of Parl. of the 15. of this instant October, authorising us, We do constitute and appoint you, Sir T. Whatton, Sir Rob. King, Sir John Clatworthy, and Sir Robert Meredith. Knights, and Rich. Salwey Esq Commissioners to treat with the Lord of Ormond, for and concerning the delivery of the Sword, the City of Dublin, and all other Garrisons and Holds in his power. And you or any three of you have hereby power to treat with the said L. of Ormond, concerning the premises, and to agree & conclude with him concerning the same, acoording to such instructions as are delivered unto you. Given this 23 of October. 1646. Northumberland. E. Manchester. P. Lisle. P. Wharton. W. Peirrepoint. Denzel Hollis. P. Stapleton. W. Lewis. J. Temple. Ro. Goodwin. Copia vera Ex. W. Rowe, Secretary Die Lunae. 12. October. 1646. IT is this day Ordered by the Commons assembled in Parliament, That it be referred to the Members of both Houses, that are of the Committee of both Kingdoms, to consider of these Letters, and to receive the Addresses of the Commissioners from Ireland, and their Propositions, and to view and consider of their Instructions, and the Members of this House that are of the Committee of both Kingdoms, or any four of them, have power to meet this Afternoon at two of the clock in Darby-house for the purposes aforesaid, and have power to report tomorrow, if they shall see occasion; And the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland, Mr. Hollis, Sir John Clotworthy, and Sir john Temple, have power, and are desired to be present at the meeting of this Committee. Mr. Na. Fi●es, Sir W. Lewis, and Mr. Rob. Goodwin are added to this Committee. Hen. Elsing, Cler. Parl. D. Com. Die Jovis 15. Octobris, 1646. THE Lords and Commons assembled in Parliament, do declare, that they resolve to proceed upon the second way of Overture, made by the Earl of Ormond, and will appoint some way of treating with him for his Retirement, and will employ such as they shall think fit in the Trust of that Kingdom. John Brown Cler. Parliament. Vera Copia, Ex. W. Rowe, Secretary Die Jovis 15. Octobris, 1646. ORdered by the Lords and Commons in Parliament assembled, That the whole Affair concerning Ireland, in respect of the secrecy and expedition thereunto necessary, be referred back to the former Committee, And the Committee hath power to give Instructions to such as they shall employ for the pursuance and transaction of that Affair, and to Order the Force's that shall go thither, and to dispose of the Ammunition, and other Provisions for the Service of Ireland, as they shall judge best for the Public Service, and are to meet this Afternoon, and so from time to time as they shall see cause. John Brown Cler. Parliament. Vera Copia, Ex. W. Rowe, Secretary Instructions for Sir Tho. Wharton, Sir Rob. King, Sir John Clotworthy, Sir Rob. Meredith, Knights, and Rich. Salwey, Esq concerning the Lord of Ormond. YOu are to declare to the L. of Ormond, the E. of Roscommon, and the rest of those that signed the Instructions to Sir Gerrard Lowther, Sir Francis Willoughby, and Sir Panl Davies, That the Parliament will take into their Care and Protection the Protestants of Ireland. If the L. of Ormond do within four days deliver up the Sword, render all the Garrisons, and other Commands to the pleasure of the Parliament, Than you, or any three of you, are to give these ensuing Conditions. 1. That the L. of Ormond shall enjoy his estate without molestation or disturbance from the Parl. And shall have indemnity against all debts contracted by reason of any Goods, Money, Debts, or Victuals taken up by virtue of any Warrants signed by him and the Council, from any person, for the maintenance and support of the Armies, or any of the Garrisons, now under his Command. 2. That he shall be protected in his Person and Goods for the space of 12 months against all Suits, Arrests, Molestation, or Disturbance from any person whatsoever, for any Debts owing by him to any person whatsoever before the Rebellion there. 3. That the L. of Ormond, and all such Noblemen, Gentlemen, and Officers, as shall be desirous to go with him, or by themselves, into any other place out of that Kingdom, shall have free Passes for themselves, their Families, Goods, & travelling Arms, and a competent number of servants suitable to their respective Qualities. 4. That the L. of Ormond shall have 5000. l. paid him in England or Ireland, in such manner as shall seem best to the Commissioners now sent: And shall have also 2000 l. per annum for 5 years, And if the War shall longer continue in such manner, as he cannot receive 2000 l. per annum, out of his own Estate, That then he shall have the said Pension of 2000 l. per annum still continued, until he can receive so much out of his own estate. 5. That the L. of Ormond shall have liberty to come and live here in England, With the like liberty that others have, he submitting to all Ordinances of Parliament. And for the time of 12 months shall not be pressed to any Oaths, he engaging his honour to do nothing in the mean time, that shall be disservice to the Parliament. Darby-house 17 Octob. 1646. A. Northumberland. E. Manchester. P. Lisle. P. Wharton. W. Pierrepoint. Denzel Hollis, W. Waller. W. Armyn. Ph. Stapleton. john Temple. W. Lewis. Ro. Wallop. Vera Copia Ex. W. Rowe, Secretary Novemb. 15. 1646. WE find in the Instructions delivered in by you unto us, That you are to declare unto us, and the rest that signed the Instructions to Sir Gerard Lowther, etc. That the Parl. will take into their Gare and Protection the Protestants of Ireland. We desire to know, whether by these words. viz. [That the Parl. will take into their Gare and Protection the Protestants of Ireland] All the Protestants of Ireland are to enjoy their Laws, Liberties, Estates, and Employments, without molestation or disturbance from the Parliament of England. ORMOND. Novem. 15. 1646. WE find by the Instructions delivered in by you unto us, these words, viz. If the Lord of Ormond do within 4 days deliver up the Sword, render all the Garrisons and other Commands to the pleasure of the Parliament, then etc. We desire to know when the said four days shall be understood to begin, and to what Person or Persons, and to whose use the said Sword, Garrisons and other Commands, are desired to be delivered up, or rendered. ORMOND. Novem. 15. 1646. TO your Lordship's first Paper of the 15 of Novem. we return this Answer; That we are required by the Paper of Instructions delivered to your Lordship, to declare to your Lordship, the E. of Roscomon, and the rest that signed the Instructions to Sir Gerard Lowther, etc. That the Parliament will take into their Care and Protection the Protestants of Ireland. But desire to be excused from giving a particular explatation of those words in that Paper, being not directed so to do, yet conceive there aught to be no doubt of a fair interpretation thereof. Rob. Meredith. Ths. Wharton. Rob. King. john Clotworthy. Ri. Salwey. Novem. 15. 1646. ALthough we question not a fair interpretation, yet in matters so highly importing the safety and subsistence of the stants of this Kingdom, we may not leave them to the uncertainty of future interpretation: and therefore we cannot re● satisfied without clearer assurance in their behalf, than we fi●de either in the Instruction delivered unto us by you this d●y (whereof we desire an Explanation) or the Answer given y●● you to our first Paper. ORMOND. 15. Novem. 1646. TO your Lordship's second Paper of the 15. of November, we return this Answer: That the four days appointed for the Treaty with your Lordship (within which time we are to bring our Debates to a conclusion) we understand did begin this 15. of Novemb. 1646. at 9 in the morning, And we who are appointed Commissioners by Authority from the Parl. of England, are to receive from your Lordship (if the Treaty succeed) the Sword, and Garrisons under your Command, for the use of the Parliament of England, in order to the preservation of the Protestants in the Kingdom of Ireland. Rob. Meredith. Tho. Wharton. Rob King. John Clotworthy. Rich. Salwey. 15. Novem. 1646. WE desire to know, whether your Lordship rests satisfied in all the particulars of the Paper of Instructions delivered to you by us this day, saving that which concerns the Protestants, as is expressed in your Lordship's third Paper. Rob. Meredith. T. Wharton. Rob. King. john Clotworthy. Rich. Salwey November 15. 1646. WE hold it not fit to declare our sense concening the particulars of the paper of Instruction, delivered by you to us which concern ourselves, until assurance be first given for the safety and subsistence of the Protestants of this Kingdom, which we desire may be hastened for the bringing of this Treaty to a speedy and good conclusion. ORMOND. November 15. 1646. FOrasmuch as your Lordship in your third paper of the fifteenth of this instant doth express; That you cannot rest satisfied without clearer assurance on the behalf of the Protestants of Ireland than you find either in the instructions delivered to you by us this day, or in our answers to your Lordship touching the explanation thereof, as was in your first paper desired. And whereas your Lordship in your fourth, in answer to our third, hath signified, that you hold it not fit to declare your sense concerning the particulars of the paper of Instructions, which concern yourself, until assurance be first given for the safety and subsistence of the Protestants of the kingdom of Ireland; to the end nothing may be wanting on our parts, to bring this Treaty to a speedy & happy conclusion, we hold it fit to declare, That by an additional Instruction (which we night not sooner impart) we are enabled to give to such Protestants (not having been in the Irish rebellion) as we condition withal, assurance of security to their persons, and to their estates and goods, that they have in Ireland, and that they may live quietly and securely under the protection of the Parliament, and their Forces, either within England, Ireland, or Wales, and that they shall enjoy those their estates and goods, without any molestation or question faom the Parliament, as any others do, who have not offended the Parliament, they submitting to all Ordinances of Parliament; and if any of them have any lands or estates in England, they are to compound for the same at the rate of two year's profit, as they were before the beginning of these troubles, They submitting to all ordinances of Parliament. Rob. Meredith. Tho. Wharton. Rob. King. Jo. Clorworthy. Ri. Salwey. 15. November. 1646. BEfore we make answer to your fourth paper of the fifteenth of November, we hold it needful to have an authentic copy of the additional Instruction therein mentioned, being for the security of the Protestant-Subjects of this Kingdom. And we desire authentic copies of such other additional Instructions as you have, in regard your commission is limited by, and hath relation to your instructions. ORMOND 16. November. 1646. TO your Lordship's fifth paper of the fifteenth of November, we return this answer, That to the end nothing may be wanting on our parts, conducing to the security of the Protestants of Ireland, according to the Instructions given us by authority of Parliament; and that we may accordingly put a speedy conclusion to this Treaty, we do for your Lordships more ample satisfaction (though we hold, not ourselves obliged thereunto) herewith freely deliver your Lordship an Authentic copy of the additional Instructions: But we must desire to be excused from giving any further answer to the said paper, until we receive your Loadships positive answer upon the papers already given in, hoping it will be believed, That as we have not hitherto, so we shall not for the future offer any thing, unto which we are not warranted by our Instructions. Rob. Meredith. Tho. Wharton. Rob. King. John Clotworthy. Ri. Salwey. The Additionall Instruction concerning the Protestants of Ireland. YOu, or any three of you, may give to such Protestants, (not having been in the Irish Rebellion) as you condition with all, assurance of security to their persons, and to their estates and goods, that they have in Ireland; and that they may live quietly, and securely under the protection of the Parliament, and their Forces, either within England, Ireland, or Wales: And you may likewise assure them, that they shall enjoy those their estates and goods without any molestation, or question from the Parliament, as any others do, who have not affended the Parliament: They submitting to all Ordinances of Parliament. And if any of them have any Lands or Estates in England, they are to compound for the same at the rate of two year's profit, as they were before the beginning of these troubles, They submitting to all Ordinances of Parliament. Derby House Octob. 17. 1646. Northumberland. E. Manchester. P. Lisl●, P. Wharton. W. Pierpoint. Denzil Hollis. W. Waller. P. Stapleton. W. Armyne. Wil Lewis. I. Temple. R. Wallop. Copia vera exam. W. Row. Secret. Dublin 16. November, 1646. Whereas we have been informed, that the Armies of the Rebels lie near this ●iti●, and may probably make some speedy attempt upon the same: we hold it our duty for the preservation thereof, and of he Protestants therein, to declare, that if your Lordship apprehend such danger to be, and that any Supplies of Men and Ammunition which we have brought with us, may prevent the same: we are rea●y to give all such assistance, as may be thought expedient, during the time the p●es●nt Treaty continues with you Lordship, and are willing to give such Cantion as may be expected from us, That no other use sha●l be made of the same, then is herein expressed, and sha●l expect the like from your Lordship. As also, that such Men and Ammunition as we shall bring ashore for the purposes aforesaid, be (if the Treaty succeed not) returned us back again. Rob. Meredith. Tho. Wharton. Rob. King. Jo. Clotworthy. Ri. Salwey. 16. November, 1646. UPon consideration had of your fourth. Paper of the fifteenth of this month, and the first paper of the sixteenth of this in n●th and he Copy of the Additionall Instruction sent unto us therewith, before we can deliver any positive answer to your papers, we hold it necessary to be satisfied in the following particulars. First, whereas you express in that paper of the fifteenth, as followeth, viz. we are enabled to ●ive to such Protestants not having been in the Irish rebellion, as we condition withal, assurance of security to their persons, and the●estater and goods, that they have in Ireland: we desire you to declare whether those words, viz. [such Protestant's not having been in the Irish rebellion] you intent to exempt those Protestants, or any of them, who have had a hand in making the cessation, or the late peace, or who have done any thing by occasion, or in Pursuance thereof. Secondly, whether by these words, viz. we are enabled to give such Protestants as we condition withal, assurance; you intent that every particular Protestant shall come, and make his conditions with you; or whether all the Protestants of this Kingdom, are not to be included within the present treaty, and to partake of the agreement which shall be made. Thirdly, whether by those words, Submitting to Ordinances of Parliamen, it be intended that they shall submit to all, a●d every the Ordinances already made, and which hereafter shall be made by the Parliament of England. Fourthly, we find nothing in the Commission, nor in any of the Instructions delivered by you to us for the continuance of the Judges and Ministers of the Civil List, and Officers of the Martial List in their respective employments, nor any answer given by you unto us in any of your pap●rs unto that particular and herein we desire to be satisfied, as a matter wherein their being and livelihood doth depend. Ormond. 16. November. 1646. TO the first and second parcicular of your Lordship's first paper of the 16. November we answet, that we shall not exempt any Protestants of Ireland, though th●y have of late consented or submitted either to the cessation of Arms, or the peace concluded with the Irish rebels so as they submit to the Parliament within twenty days after our sending to them. To the third particular, your Lordship hath an authentic copy of the Instruction, wherein those words [submitting to al● Ordinance of Parliament] are expressed, of which we have no explanation. To the fourth particular, concerning the continuation or displacing of the Judges an▪ Ministers of the Civil List in their employments we are not instructed therein; but for the Officers of the Martial List, we have power by our Instructions, and do intent accordingly to employ such of them as shall be found fit for the service. Having thus endeavoured to give your Lordship all possible satisfaction, we do again desire your Lordship's positive answer to our papers formeny given in, it being too manifest, how grest mischief may befall the Protestants of this Kingdom, and the service with which we are entrusted, should not our Debates be brought to a speedy conclusion. Rob. Meredith. T. Wharton, Rob. King, J. Clotworthy. Ri. Salwey. 16. November. 1646. We are not satisfied with your answer to our first Paper, of the 16. of Novemb. to which we take these following exceptions for the present. First, we desired by our said paper to know of you, whether you intended to exempt the Protestants, or any of them, who have had a hand in making the cessation, or late peace, etc. to which you make this answer, That you will not exempt any Protestants of Ireland though they have of late consented, or submitted, either to the cessation or the peace concluded with the Irish rebels, so as they submit to the Parliament within twenty days after your sending unto them; within which words, no provision is made either for those who had a hand in the making thereof, or did upon the first making thereof submit thereunto. And besides, no provision is made for any, but such as you shall send unto, so that it will rest in your power, to whom you will send, and when; wherein there is no certainty. Secondly, we desired by our said paper, to know of you, whether you intended that every particular Protestant shall come, and make his conditions with you; or whether all the Protestant's of this kingdom are not to be included within the present Treaty, and to partake of the agreement to be made, to which no clear answer is given. And whereas you desire our positive answer to your papers formerly given, ●it being, as you say, too manifest how great mischief may befall the Protestants of this kingdom, and the service with which you are entrusted, if your debates should should not be brought to a speedy conclusion. We desire you for the same reasons, to set down fully and clearly how far the propositions which we sent to the Parliament by our Commissioners, are assented unto; and upon view and consideration thereof, we shall speedily give our positive answer. Ormond. 17. November. 1646. IN answer to your Lordship's second paper of the 16. of November, and for clearing (so fare as possibly lies in us) the Exceptions therein taken to our answer unto your Lordship's first paper of the same date. We herewith deliver all the Instructions which we have received, that do (as we conceive) in any kind whatsoever, relate thereunto; and if yet ●●●te shall remain with your Lordship any doubt concerning those particulars, we shall represent the same (if the Tr●acy do succeed) to those that employed us, with the best advantage for the Protestant's of this Kingdom. Further satisfaction than this, we suppose cannot be expected from us. As to the other part of your Lordship's paper, wherein you would have us set down fully and clearly, ●ow far the propositions which you sent to the Parliament by your Commissioners, are assented unto, we cannot answer your Lordship's desire therein, neither those propositions, nor copies of them being delivered unto us. We therefore earnestly desire your Lordship to accept of the conditions offered in our former papers, and to give us a speedy resolution therein. Rob. Meredith. Tho. Wharton. Rob. King. Io Clotworthy. Ri. Salwey Instructions for Sir Thomas Wharton, Sir Robert King, Sir John Clotworthy, and Sir Rob. Meredith, Knights: and Richard Salwey Esquire, employed to the Lord of Ormond, and others at Dublin▪ You may receive any Protestant who hath not been in the Irish rebellion, though he hath of late consented or submitted, either to the cessation of A mes, or the peace concluded with the Irish rebel's, so as they submit to the Pa●liament within twenty days after your sending for them. You, or any three of you, have power hereby to give protection to ●uch as will come under contribution, and to give them the best safeguard you can, by the countenance of the Forces serving under the Parliament. You, or any three of you, may give to such Protestants (not having been in the Irish rebellion) as you condition withal, assurance of security to their persons, and to their estates and goods, that they have in Ireland, and that t●ey may live quietly and securely under the protection o● the Parliament, and their Forces, either within England, Ireland, or Wales; and you may likewise assure them, that they shall enjoy those their Estates and Goods, without any molestation, or question from the Parliament, as any others do, who have not offended the Parliament, they submitting to all Ordinances of Parliament; ann if any of them have any Lands or Estates in England, they are to compound for the same at the rate of two year's profit, as they were before the beginning of these troubles, they submitting to all Ordinances of Parliament. Darby-house, Octob. 17. 1646. Northumberland. W. P●erpoint. W. Waller. Manchester. Denz. Hollis. P. Stapleton. P. Lisle. W. Lewis I. Temple. P. Wharton. W. Armine. Ro. Wallop. 17. November. 1647. IN your third paper of the 16. of November, are these words, viz. That for the Officers of the Martial List, we have power by our Intructions, and ●o intent accordingly to employ such of them as shall be found fit for the service. A Copy of which Instruction, we desire, that we may the better judge how fare the security and future subsistence of the said Officers is thereby provided for. Ormond. November 17. 1646. In answer to your Lordship's first paper of the 17. of this Month, we herein deliver a Copy of the Instructions therein desired. Rob. Meredith. Tho. Wharton. Rob. King. Io. Clotworthy. R. Salwey. YOu, or any three of you, are to employ such of the Officers now under the Lord of O●mond, as you shall think fit; and where you displace any, you are to place other Officers, if they be necessary; or otherwise to see their Commands sufficiently discharged, until the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland take further order. Signed as the rest of the Instruction. Copia vera exam. W. Rowe, Secretary 17. Novemb. 1646. BY our second paper of the 16. of November, we desired you for the bringing of the present debates to a speedy dy conclusion, to set down fully and clearly, how fare the propositions positions, which we sent to the Parliament by our Commissioners, are assenced unto; and we did by our said paper declare, that upon view and consideration thereof, we would speedily give our positive answer; to which by our first paper of the 17. of November you say, that you cannot answer our desire therein, neither those propositions nor copies of them being delivered unto you. We think fit to declare unto you, that our Commissioners delivered our Propositions and Instructions to the Committee of both Houses, and that they took Copies thereof, and that our Commissioners do by their letters of the 16. of October 1646, certify us by the command of the said Committee, that with the succours, there would also arrive here certain Commissioners to be sent from the Parliament to treat with us, upon the particulars contained in the Propositions and Instructions sent to the Parliament from us, Copies of which Propositions and Instructions we are ready to send unto you, if that you shall desire the same. And we again desire you to declare fully and clearly how far you have power, and will assent to our said Propositions, or whether we shall give our positive answer to the papers already delivered by you, taking it for granted, that you have no further, or other Instructions, than what you have delivered us. Ormond. 17. November, 1646. TO your Lordship's second paper of the 17. of November, (wherein you again desire us to declare fully and clearly, how fare we have power, and will assent to the Propositions sent to the Parliament by your Commissioners) we can return no other answer than we have already done in our two first papers of the 16. and 17. of Novemb. in the later of which we declare, we have not those propositions nor copies of them, nor we think it expedient upon this occasion to receive the same from your Lordship, yet we desire the want of those Propositions may not be conceived the only reason of our forbearance, of giving further answer to your Lordship's paper; but hold it our duty to insist upon your Lordship's positive answer to the papers already given in. Rob Meredith. Tho. Wharton. Rob. King. Jo. Clotworthy. Ri. Salwey. 17. November, 1646. If you shall positively declare, that you have no power or instructions to enlarge yourselves beyond what is expressed in your former papers, we will then give a positive answer to those papers. Ormond. 17 November. 1646. We cannot more largely or positively express the power and extent of our instructions, we have then already done, but do again in pursuance of our instructions, desire your Lordship's answer to the papers given in. Rob. Meredith. Tho. Wharton. Rob King. Jo Clotworthy. Ri. Salwey. 17 November, 1646. We did not by our third paper o● the 17. of November, desire to know whether you could more largely or positively express th● power & intent of your instructions then you had formerly done: But we expressed, that if you would positively declare you had no power or instructions to enlarge yourselves beyond what is expressed in your former papers, we would then give a positive answer to those papers, which by your answer thereunto you have neither affirmed nor denied; And therefore we forbear to give a positive answer to your said papers, till we be satisfied in that particular. Ormond. 18. November. 1646. Having taken into consideration your Lordship's last paper of the 17. of Novemb. we return you this answer, that uvea hold not fit positively to declare, whether we have any power or instruction to enlarge ourselves beyond what is expressed in our former paper, nor doewe conceive it ought to be expected from us, for that (to omit other reasons) we have frequently declared, that we are (according to our instructions to receive your Lordship's positive answer upon the papers already given in, which we now again desire from your Lordship. Rob. Meredith. Tho. Wharton. Rob. King. Io. Clotworthy. Rich. Salwey. 18 November. 1646. In the Copy of some of the Instructions delivered by you unto us, it is thus expressed, That if the Lord of Ormond do within 4 days deliver up the sword, render up all the Garcisons, and other Commands to the pleasure of the Parliament, than you, or any three of you, are to give these ensuing Conditions, etc. And in your second paper of the 15. of Novemb, 1646. you express yourselves amongst other things, as followeth, viz. We, who are appointed Commissioners by authority from the Parl. of England, are to receive from your Lordship (if the treaty succeed) the Sword, and Garrisons under your Command, for the use of the Parl. of England; To which, and your other papers, before we can make answer, we desire to know whether you have his Majesty's Direction and Command unto us, for our so doing. Ormond. 18. November 1646. To your Lordship's first paper of the 18. of this month, we answer that we have not his Maj. direction and command unto your Lordship, for delivering up the Sword, rendering up all the Garrisons and Commands to the pleasure of the Parliament. Rob. Meredith. Tho. Wharton. Rob. King. John Clotworthy. Rich. Salwey. 18. Novemb. 1646. The papers delivered by you unto us, whereunto you desire our positive answer, gave occasion unto us to take into consideration, aswell the Propositions and Instructions signed by us alone, and sent by our Commissioners to be presented to the Parliament of England, as also the Propositions and Instructions signed by us, and the Council of this Kingdom, and other Propositions and Instructions signed by the said Council apart, and sent by our said Commissioners to be in like sort presented: all which Propositions and Instructions they delivered to the Committee of both honses, appointed to consider thereof, who took Copies of the said Propositions and Instructions, Copies of which Propositions signed by us alone, we think fit to insert herein, viz. Propositions of the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland, to be presented, etc. THat the said Lord Lieutenant will prosecute the War against the Irish Rebels, as vigorously as he shall be thereunto enabled by the Pari. of England, and that he will faithfully serve the Crown of England therein. 2 That whilst he hath the Government of this Kingdom, and the Command of the Armies therein, none of the Supplies of Men, Money, Arms, Munition, Victuals, or any other provisions of what kind or nature soever, which shall by the PARLIAMENT of ENGLAND be sent over, or joined with the Forces already under his Command, nor any other Forces that shall be under his Command, shall in any wise be employed either within this Kingdom, or out of it, but by the express direction of the said Parliament of England. 3 That he will not upon any Command, or by virtue of any power or authority whatsoever, enter into any Treaty with the said Irish Rebels, or conclude any Peace or Cessation with them without the consent and express Command of the King and Parliament of England. 4. He will engage himself to the true performance of all these things by Oath, or by any other means that can be proposed to a man of Honour and Conscience. 26 Septemb. 1646. Ormond. Now forasmuch, as we do not find by our papers, that any one of the said Propositions, which have been transmitted from hence, is assented unto by the Parl. of England, though we have pressed you by several papers, to know how fare they were assented unto; And for that it appeareth unto us by those papers, that no Copies of the said Propositions or Instructions were delivered unto you and that when we upon that signification did offer unto you copies of both, you did not think it expedient upon this occasion to receive the same from us, And for that by the papers and copies of Instructions delivered by you unto us, We find ●o security offered to any of the Protestants, but to such as you shall condition withal, and who shall submit to all Ordinances of Parliament, whereas we expected that all should be included and provided for, in and by the present Treaty, and what those conditions o● Ordinances of Parliament are, you do not ascertain by any of your papers: And for that it doth not appear unto us by any the Instructions, whereof you have delivered copies unto us, that you have power to secure any other of his Majesty's Subjects, who have constantly adhered to the Government here since the 22 of October, 1641. in their persons and estates. And for that the Officers of his Majesty's Army here, and the Judges and Ministers of the Civil List, have no assurance given them for their continuance in their respective employments, your expression as unto them being as followeth, viz. Concerning the continuation and displacing of the Judges and Ministers of the civil List in their employments, we are not instructed therein; but for the Officers of the Martial List, we have power by our Instructions, and do intent accordingly to employ such of them, as shall be found fit for the service, which giveth no assurance unto any one of the Martial List, and leaveth the Civil List without any security, & taketh no notice of the poor distressed Clergy of the Kingdom. In all which particulars (being contained in our Propositions and Instructions) we did hopr that the Parl. of England would have given us satisfaction, which being not yet done for any thing made known by you to us, and for that you have by your paper of the 18. of Novemb. 1646. declared unto us, that you have not his Maj. direction and command unto us, for delivering up the Sword, rendering up all the Garrisons and Commands to the pleasure of the Parliament, which you by your second paper of the 15. of Novemb. 1646. desire to be rendered unto you, to the use of the Parliament; without any relation in your said paper to the King, we hold it not consistent with our Duty to his Majesty, to part with so great a Trust committed to our charge, in manner as by your papers is desired, without his Maj. express and positive Directions, and therefore may not assent thereunto. Ormond. 18. Novemb. 1646, Whereas we did, together with our first paper of the 16. of Novemb. deliver in to your Lordship an authentic copy of the additional instruction concerning the Protestants of Ireland, unto which your Lordship hath taken several exceptions; we think good for your satisfaction therein, now to declare, that we intent that all Protestants whatsoever of the Kingdom of Ireland (not having been in the Irish Rebellion) shall be included in this treaty, and receive the full benefit expres●n the said instruction: And that the conditions employed in that instruction to be imposed on them, shall be understood, as followeth, viz. Whereas it is said, they shall enjoy those their Estates and Goods without any molestation or question from the Parl. as nay others do, who have not offended the Parl. they submitting to all Ordinances of Parl. By all Ordinances of Parl. we only intent such Ordinances (whether already made, or to be made) as all others do submit unto, who never offended the Parliament; And whereas liberty is given to compound for such estates, as any of them shall have in England they submitting to all Ordinances of Parl. By all Ordinances of Parl. we intent, only such as all persons now compounding in England do submit unto, provided that all those that are thus admitted ●o their composition do effectually prosecute the same within 6 months after the publication of this Articles. And whereas in the fourth Article of the first paper delivered in to your Lordship, offer is made of 5000. l. in money, and 2000 l. per annum, to be paid your Lordship in manner, as is expressed in the said Article, we now hold it fit to declare, that if it shall be more to your Lordship's satisfaction and content, we have power given us, and shall accordingly grant, what you desired in the 6. Article of your Lordship's additional instructions sent to the Par. according as is in the paper herewith delivered in, expressed. And we lustily hold it fit to make known unto your Lordship, that power is also given to us, to agree for allowances to be paid to other persons, by constam pension during the War of Ireland, not exceeding the sum of 2000 l. per annum, which pensions are to continue, till they can receive the like benefit by their own estates. We do now particularly declare to your Lordship (and sooner according to our instructions we could not) that we have no power to enlage our elves, beyond what we have expressed. And do therefore now again, entreat our Lordship's positive answer upon the whole, which we must the rather desire may be expedited, for that we are (according to our instructions) to bring our debates to a conclusion within 4 days at the furthest, after the beginning of the treaty, which will end to morrow at 9 of the clock in the morning, and we have no authority to prolong the same. Rob. Meredith. Tho. Wharton. Rob. King. john Clotworthy. Ric. Salwey. A Copy of the Paper mentioned in the former. Sixthly, in regard that my whole fortune is now in the possession, or within the power of the Rebels, so as I can make no manner of use of i●; As also for that I have not only at my own charge, in some sort, maintained the honour and dignity of my place, since the 21. of jan. 1643, which was the day whereon I was sworn his Maj. Lieutenant, but likewise contributed in a considerable portion to the maintenance of the Army & Garrisons now under my Command. And lastly, for that by means thereof, I am utterly unable to discharge the debts I have contracted for my own support, whilst I employed my own to feed the Army, or to pay the wages due to the Servant, which I was necessitated to entertain, in respect of the place I held; For these reasons, I desire it may be humbly offered to the nobleness & honour of the Parl. That to free me from the clamour of Creditors, to pay my servants their wages, and to transport and maintain myself and my family, in some sort befitting the condition of a Gentleman; The Parl. will be pleased to disburse the sum of 13000. l. 877. l. 14. s. 9 d. be paid to such as I shall appoint upon Bills of Exchange, accepted by sufficient men in France, or Holland, to wit, the one half upon sight, and at 6 months the oeher half thereof, which is less than the just sum I have disbursed for the maintenance of the Garrisons of Dublin, Dundalke, Newry, Narrow-water, Green-Castle, and Carlingford, not accounting my own expense, nor the many other smaller disbursments spent merely for the good of the said Garrisons; And that I may be secured against any molestation, by reason of the engagements, I have at any time entered info, for the public service since the beginning of this Rebellion. 19 Novemb. 1646. Upon consideration had of your 3. paper of the 18. of Novem. as also of your former papers, and the copies of such instructions, as you delivered unto us, we find no satisfaction given by you in these following particulars. First, we do not find that you have power to secure any of his Maj. Roman Catholic Subjects in their persons and estates, who have constantly adhered to the Government here, since the 22. of October, 1641 of whom we conceive care out to be had in the present treaty. Secondly, you have declared unto us, that you have no instruction concerning the continuation or displacing of the Judges, and Ministers of the Civil List in their employment and your instruction as unto the Martial List (whereof you gave us a Copy) is as followeth, viz. You or any three of you are to employ such of the Officers now under the L●of Ormond, as you shall think fit, and where you displace any, you are to place other Officers, if they be necessary, or otherwise to see their Commands sufficiently discharged, until the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland taketh further order; which may give more occasion of fear unto the Officers of being displaced, then hope of continuance in their respective employments, and there is not as much as mention made of the poor distressed Clergy of the Kingdom in any the papers or instructions delivered to you by us. Thirdly, the Protestant's of the Kingdom, who are to be included in the present treaty, are, as you declare in the last paper delivered by you to us, to submit themselves to all Ordinances of Parl. whether already made, or to be made; Amongst which (as we are intormed) are some which require the Covenant to be generally taken, and others which lay Mu●cts upon those, who shall use the Book of Common-prayer, which form of Service, and no other, is by a Law of force in this Kingdom, commanded upon a penalty to be used; And in our instructions sent by our Commissioners, we desire that neither the one nor the other might be pressed until settlement by Parliament. And for us to agree upon this treaty to all future ordinances which shall be made by the Parliament, before it be known what those ordinances are, we conceive may be of dangerous consequence to the whole Kingdom, and not agreeable with the rules of prudence in us. Fourthly, whereas by a special instruction signed by us apart, we did direct our said Commissioners, as followeth, viz. If you find the Parl. ready & willing forthwith effectually to take into their care and protection his Maj. Protestant Subjects within the quarters under my command, and those that have adhered to them from the 22. of October, 1641. according to the purport of the instructions signed by me and the Council, and that my continuance in the Government, shall be the only let thereunto, you are then in such case to let them know, that I will surrender my place of Lieutenant and deliver all the Holds in my power to such as the Parliament shall appoint upon these conditions. First, that they procure his Maj. directions for the doing thereof, etc. which was the first and fundamental condition of all that was propounded by us upon this Overture, which was to be Precedent, and without which, nothing as unto the delivery up of the Government was to be expected from us. Upon consideration of all which, and of the Oath taken by us, upon our first entrance into this great trust reposed in us, the tenor whereof doth ensue in these words, viz. You shall swear, that you shall faithfully and truly to your power serve our Sovereign Lord the King's Majesty, in the room and authority of Lord Lieutenant, and chief Governor of this his Realm of Ireland, you shall maintain and defend the Laws of God and the Christian Faith, You shall to your power, not only keep his Maj. peace amongst his People, but also maintain his Officers and Ministers in the execution and administration of Justice, You shall defend his Maj. Castles, Garrisons, Dominions People, & Subjects of this Realm, and repress his Rebels and Enemies, You shall not consent to the damage, and disher●zon of his Maj. his Heirs nor Successors neither shall you suffer the right of the Crown to be destroyed by any way, but shall let it to your power, and if you cannot let the same; You shall certify his Maj. clearly and expressly thereof, You shall give your true and faithful for the King's Majesty's profit, and his Highness' council? You shall conceal and keep, All other things for the preservation of his Maj. Realm of Ireland, the peace amongst his People, and execution of his Justice, according to his Maj: Laws, Usages and Customs of this his Highness' Realm, you shall perform, and do to your power: So God you help, and by the Contents of this Book. And for that our Commissioners have by their Letters certified us, that they were commanded by the Committee of both houses to forbear the delivering unto the Scottish Commissioners the duplicate of the Letters, which we and the Council had written to his Maj. and delivered to our Commissioners, advertising his Maj. thereby of our address to the Parliament, with direction to deliver them to the Scottish Commissioners, to be sent to the King▪ until the pleasure of the two houses should be made known; which restraint, doth as yet for any thing made known unto us, lie still upon them. And for that if we should deliver up the Sword in manner as is desired, the present Parl. of this Kingdom (which is the hope of the remaining Protestants hear) would be at an end; for all which reasons, we may not part with the trust committed to our charge, in manner as by your papers is desired, without his Majesties express and positive direction, and therefore may not assent thereunto. Ormord. 19 Novemb. 1646. If your Lordship continue unsatisfied concerning the papers already delivered in, or any of them, as is employed by the Exceptions taken thereunto, and expressed in your last paper of the 18 of November, we are ready to offer such considerations to your Lordship by way of Answer thereunto, as we hope, may give your Lordship satisfaction therein; and this we desire, may be done by conference, if your Lordship shall think fit, for that the shortness of time will not give opportunity to commit it to writing. Rob. Meredith. Tho. Wharton. Rob. King. Jo. Clotworthy. Ri. Salwey. 19 November. 1646. Although the Conference desired by you in your paper of this days date was within half an hour of the expiration o● the time limited for this treaty: A●d although you have positively declared in your 3. paper of the 18. of Novemb. 1646. That you have no power to ●nlarge yourselves, ●r the tim● beyond what you have expressed, yet to manifest to ●he world, h●w desirous we are to receive satisfaction in those necessary exceptions by us taken to your papers given in upon this Treaty, which may being the same to a happy conclusion, we are ready to entertain the Conference desired by your said first paper of this day's date. ORM●ND. 19 Novemb. 1646. Whereas we received a large paper from your Lordship of the 18. of Novemb. wherein you declared, you could not assent to deliver up th● sword, render all the Garrisons, and other Commands to the pleasure of the Pa●l, as was desired by us in papers formerly given in ●o your Lordship, together with your particular Exceptions to the same. And whereas, we did immediately thereupon offer unto your Lordship, such further ●onditions of enlargement to the former, as we were instructed unto for your more ample satisfaction in complying wi●h the desires of the Parliament, in order to the preservation of the Protestants of the Kingdom of Ireland. And whereas your Lordship signified to us, that it then being late, & the paper given in by us of great importance, you would return answer thereunto the next morning. And whereas, we did this morning deliver to your Lordship a paper, declaring, That if your Lordship continued unsatisfied concerning the Papers by us given in, or any of them, as was expressed by the Exceptions taken thereunto, we were ready to offer such consideraaions to your Lordship as we hoped might give satisfaction, which we desired might be done by conference, for that the shortness of time would not permit it in writing. And having received another paper from your Lordship of the 19 of Novemb. containing your refusal to deliver up the Sword. etc. upon the Conditions offered in our first and later papers, your Lordship did signify by your second paper of the 19 That you were ready to hear, what we coul● further offer by way of Conference, as was desired; which was by us performed accordingly. We do therefore now desire to know, if your Lordship do still insist upon your refusal, on the grounds expressed in your papers. And if so, we make known to your Lordship, that we shall for our own exoneration, commit to writing the sum of what we delivered in Conference and give your Lordship a copy thereof; to the end, the uprightness of our proceed in the transaction of this Treaty with your Lordship may in all things appear, although that happy success, which we desired, be not attained thereby, Rob. Meredith. Tho. Wharton. Rob. King. Jo. Clotworthy. Ri. Salwey. Novemb. 16. 1646. Forasmuch as, what was delivered upon the Conference, cannot be made use of by us, as binding unto you, unless it be reduced to writing and signed by you, which when you shall have reduced the same to writing, and given us a Copy thereof, signed by you; We shall then declare unto you, whether or no, we will rest satisfied therewith, or shall upon the whole matter insist upon our refusal. Ormond. Dublin 20. Novemb. 1647. Whereas upon Thursday morning the 14 of Novemb. in our Conference with your Lordship, we did endeavour to offer such considerations, as might give satisfaction to your Exceptions taken by our papers given in; And whereas, we did at the same time also desire to know, whether or no your Lordship had received satisfaction to all, or any of your said Exceptions, or whether you would still insist upon your refusal, whereupon your Lordship by your third Paper of he 19 of Novemb. returned answer, That what was delivered upon the Conference cannot be made use of by your Lordship, as binding unto us; unless it be reduced to writing, and signed by us, and that when we shall have reduced the same to writing, and given you a coyy thereof signed by us, your Lordship will then declare unto us, whether or no, you will rest satisfied therewith, or shall upon the whole matter insist upon your refusal. We have therefore accordingly expressed in writing the sum of what was delivered in Conference, which we offer to your Lordship, as followeth. You● Lordships first Exception is. Except. 1. That none of the Propositions (of the first way of Overture) which were transmitted by your Lordship to the Parliament are assented unto. To which we answer. Answ. 1. That an Ordinance of Parliament of the 15. of October, 1646. containing the Declaration of both Houses to proceed upon the second way of Overture made by your Lordship, was by us delivered to your Lordship. 2 That Declaration was made by the Parliament, before such time as Sir Francis Willong●by returned from London, from whom your Lordship might be informed thereof. 3 Your Lordship presuming (before your Commissioners came from London) that the Parl. might not accept of those Propositions, did by Additionall Instructions, declare, you would not insist thereupon, and accordingly gave them liberty to recede from the same, and to propound a second way of Overture, which the Parliament did proceed upon, and appointed a way of Treating with you; of which, your Commissioners did advertise your Lordship by Direction of the Committee of Parliament, appointed to consider of the said Propositions. And 4 If your Lordship observe, how far that second way of Overture is accepted and granted by the Parliament in the Proposition by us given in; you may happily find, not only full and positive satisfaction to the most of what your Lordship asked, but in some particulars also, more ample offers made, then was by your Lordship desired therein; which than the world shall consider, together with the grounds and principles held forth by your Lordship (inviting the Dispatch of Supplies ●o this Place) we are confident, the Parliament will be abundantly justified therein: yet over and above all this, we continue to declare that in every particular we will go to the utmost limits of ●ur Instructions, and where any thing seems doubtful to your Lordship, or too short; we shall (if the Treaty succeed) represent it to those that 'em; ploy us, in the best manner we can for your Lordship's full satisfaction. And this we desire may be applied to every Exception taken by your Lordship. Except. 2. That we have no power to secure any of his Majesty's Roman Catholic Subjects in their persons and estates, who have constantly adhered to the Government here since the 22. of October, 1641. Of whom, you conceive, care aught to be had in the present Treaty. Answ. 1, Those that by Authority of Parliament gave power to us to treat, did not, for aught we can perceive, take cognizance of any of the Roman Catholics of Ireland, that did adhere to the Government of this Kingdom against the Irish Rebels. 2 If any such be, it's probable the number is not considerable; and if they have done nothing against the Parliament, they need not any special security, but may expect as much as others, that have in like manner demeaned themselves, although they be of the Protestant Religion. 3 Power is given (as by an Instruction delivered in the 16. of Nou. is expressed) to protect such as will come under Contribution, and to give them safeguard by the countenance of the Forces serving under the Parliament; According to which, they are to be protected in their persons and estates, aswell from the violence of the soldiers under the Parliament, as of the Enemy; And this to be extended unto all, without distinction of Offence, or Religion. 4 If any thing more can be reasonably offered, in the behalf of such Papists as have adhered to the present Government, and not been in the Irish Rebellion; it shall be also recommended back by us to those that employed us, in the best manner we can for your Lordship's satisfaction. Except. 3. That no assurance is given, that the Judges and Ministers of the Civil and Martial List shall be continuod in their places and employments, etc. Answ. 1. Nothing is given us in charge, nor hath any thing been expressed by us concerning the removal of the Judges, and Ministers of the Civil List, nor any of them. 2 In cases of like nature, it hath not been known, that persons so qualified, have been continued and established by Treaty, nor was it (to ●ur knowledge) ever heretofore insisted on by any whomsoever. 3. If it must be presumed that they have offended the Parliament, yet assurance is given (and otherwise they can need none) for security to their people, with enjoyment of there goods and estates in the Kingdom of Ireland, as if they had not offended, and have liberty to compound for their Estates, ●s any of them have in England, and such Composition not to exceed two years' value. Concerning the Officers of the Martial List. We answer. Answ. 1. We have expressed, That we will continue and employ all such Officers, whomsoever as shall be found fit for the Service: And as we have not hitherro taken up a resolution (if the Treaty sh●o●ld succeed) to displace any. so we do declare. that it must be an extraordinary cause that should induce us to it, and we understand the words of our Instruction (viz. You are to employ such of the Officers, etc.) doth so direct us, and therefore cannot give, as your Lordship expresseth. more occasion of fear unto the Officers of being displaced, then hope of continuance in their respective employments. 2. As we believe, no precedent can be show; so it is obvious, the inconvenience would be very great, to article for, and establish by Treaty, any Officers of the Military List, though our resolution be to continue the same. 3. The same assurance and benefit, as is declared in our third answer to your Lordship's objections concerning the Civil List, is also to be extended in like manner to the Officers of the Martial List, according to our Instructions. In which also, the Clergy of this Kingdom mentioned by your Lordship, may respectively receive advantage, concerning whom we are not instructed: Yet. We desice it may be rememcred, that power is given us to agree for Pensions, to such as we shhll think fit, to the value of two bookstand pounds per annum, which we are ready to assertain unto such of the Civil and Martial List, as also of the distressed Clergy, as shall be thought meet to extend it to, in such way as may give best satisfaction, according to our Instruction. Except. 4. That great inconveniency may happen to all the Protestants of Ireland, who are to be included in this Treaty, if they should thereby conclude themselves to submit to all the Ordinances of Parliament. Answ. 1. We have declared, etc. That their submitting to all Ordinances of Parliament, is to be understood no otherwise then as all others do, who have always adhered to, and never offended the Parliament. 2. We know of no Ordinance of Parliament, that requires the Covenant to be taken in the Kingdom of Ireland. 3. We are no ways instructed to suppress the Book of Common Prayer, or impose the Directory, though your Lordships represented in your own Instructions, that the Directory might be used here. 4. It may also be considered, That your Lordship made Overture of submitting to the Direction of both Houses of Parliament, (and that exclusively to any one whatsoever) as to the ordering and disposing of the Army, etc. If they should accept of your Overture, which could not be understood otherwise to be done, but by Ordinances of Parliament, as to them from time to time should seem meet. Exception. 5. Lastly, That the King's direction for the Delivery up of the Government is not obtained, and that your Commissioners were commanded to forbear the delivering unto the S●●●ch Commissioner, the duplicate of the Letters which your Lordship and the Council had written to His Majesty concerning the same. Answ. 1. We are very confident, what the Committee of both houses did therein, was by direction of the Parliament. 2. Your Commissioners did declare, that if supplies were not instantly dispatched, you would take it for granted none would be sent, and therefore must be necessitated to think of some other course for your Preservation, as by the Laws of God and Nature became you, and therefore it could not be imagined (the necessity being so great, under which your Lordship then was, according to the representation thereof made to the Parliament) that you would refuse such Supplies from the Parliament, in manner as they directed till your Letter should be from thence sent to Newcastle, and an answer thereof returned to your Lordship, which would not undoubtedly have taken up much more time, than the extremity of your Condition here, according to the foresaid representation, could possibly admit of; And information was given that an address to the King was also made by your Lordship another way, and we have not yet understood by your Lordship that he hath inhibited you to proceed and conclude with us. But more especially we desire it may be considered by your Lordship that in your letter to the King (mentioned in your exceptions) your Lordship's expressions are full, to proceed with the Parliament up●n the overture made to them in the Propositions, not only without desiring answer, but without expecting consent or direction from his Majesty before such time as you would conclude the same, and your Lordship doth only give an account of your Resolutions, his Majesty unconsulted with, as already fixed with expectation only of a benign construction from his Majesty thereupon; And that not only from the consideration of necessity, but (as we conceive of your Lordship's du●y also, as the case the● stood, (no less than a Kingdom lying at the Stake) to make your application in such manner to the Parliament. 3. May it not also be considered, what reason the Parliament had to conceive your Lordship intended, not so to insist on the King's direction as with u● it you would not conclude, when they observed that by those Propositions from your Lordship, a Copy whereof you have delivered us, you offered (if they should accept thereof (to put your present Army and Forces, called by your Lordship his Majesty's Army, (Notwithstanding any interest you apprehended the King had therein) under the sole direction of both Houses of Parliament. And yet in those Propositions we find no mention made of consent or direction to be first had from the King, which was believed your Lordship then, as at this time also, might the better do, for that by act of Parliament, the managing of the Wa● of Ireland is established in both Houses of Parliament alone. 4. It may be considered, that however many eases of this nature in the late troubles in England have happened, where Persons under great obligations to the King, have frequently surrendered to the Parliament, Garrisons and Forces, which they received by command from his Majesty, as in particular that of Oxford (where remained not only the Duke of York and his Majesty's Council, but also the Sword, the great and lesser Seals with other Ensigns of the Regal Power, (and al● these) without first having any explicit direction from the King to deliver up the same. 5. When we also consider how passionately it was represented to the Parliament by your Lordship, of how great importance the City and Castle of Dublin (together with the Garrisons under your Command) were in order to the recovery of the Kingdom of Ireland, the preservation of the Protestant Religion, together with all the Protestants therein, as also how undoubtedly all must miscarry, if Supplies did not timely come; We cannot but wonder that in case of so high concernment, and so great necessity (the spilling of the blood of so many thousand Protestants being unavoidable) according to the grounds and representations offered by your Lordship to the Parliament, the danger whereof remains the same, for aught hath occurred to us, granted also by the loss of many Garrisons since, and will be perfected by your rejecting the Supplies (with so much expedition and Charge sent hither by the Parliament) that yet the King's consent should be so insisted on, as that neither the preservation of the said Protestant Religion, nor the blood of thousands of Protestants, nor any of the Considerations should purchase a Dispensation therein. 6. And whereas your Lordship's Oath is objected: It appears to us to be penned with special caution and relation to such a time of necessity as this; and is rather (as we conceive) sullfilled by consent to, then refusal of the conditions offered to your Lordship, unto which also, we believe that respect was had, when those Resolutions were taken up expressed in the Letter to the King. We hold it our Duty to deal thus clearly and freely with your Lordship; that (if it were possible) we might give satisfaction thereby, However our consciences do acquit us, that we have done our utmost therein, and do● conceive that those that employed us, will be abundantly acquitted in the sight of God and Man, as having done what could be expected from them, and unto whom (for any neglect in this affair) the guilt of Blood we are confident shall not be imputed in that day wherein inquisition shall be made for the same. Rob. Meredith. Tho. Wharton. Rob. King. Io. Clotworthy. Rion. Salwey. November 1646. WE● have considered the paper wherein you expressed the sum of what was delivered by you in the Conference with us; to which we make return. Our first exception was, Not that none of the Propositions of the first way of Overture, which were transmitted by us to the Parliament, are assented unto, as in that paper is expressed, but that none of the Propositions which were transmited, whether you look to the first way of Overture (as you are pleased to term it) or the second way of Overure, are assented unto. And to the end that this may be the better understood, we hold it necessary to declare, that some of the Propositions which were transmitted by us from hence, were signed by us a part, wherein we did undertake the prosecution of the War, as vigorously against the Rebels, as we should be thereunto enabled by the Parliament; which Propositions are expressed at large in our second paper of November 18. 1646. and these seem only to have relation to Ourself. There were other Propositions signed by Us and the Council, wherein not only Ourself, but all others of this Kingdom, as well of the Soldiery, as others of his Majesty's Prote●●●● subjects of this Kingdom, and their adherents are respe●●●●●● concerned, the said Propositions importing no ●e●●e then the preservation of them in their persons, estates, and employments. And there were Instructions signed by us, and delivered to our Commissioners, authorising them, that if they did find the Parl. willing and ready to take into their care and protection his Maj. subjects, within the quarters now under our Command, and those that have adhered to them since the 22 of October 1641. according to the purport of the Instructions signed by us and the Council, and that our continuance in the Government should be the only let thereunto, that then our said Commissioners should let them know, that we would surrender our place of Lieutenant, and deliver up all the Holds in our power, to such as the Parl. should appoint upon certain conditions, whereof the first and principal is, that they should procure his Maj. directions for our so doing which offer made by us, is in the Ordinance of parl delivered by you to us, and by you in your paper of the 19 of Novem. 1646. called our second way of Overture whereupon you say the parl. did proceed, which you say, Sir Francis Willoughby upon his return from London might have informed us: That sir F. Willoughby might have told us we know not; we are sure he did never tell us of the resolution said by you to be taken by the Parl. for proceeding in that, you call, the second way of Overture, nor did he bring with him (for aught known to us) any copy of the Order of the 15 of Obtob. declaring, that Resolution, nor was it mentioned by our Commissioners in any of their Letters, though we received several, as well by the said Sir Fran. Willoughby, as by others of dates subsequent to the said Order. But on the contrary, Sir Gerrard Lowther, and Sir Paul Davies, did by their Letter of the 6. of Novemb. after sir Fr. Willoughbies' departure from London, certify us, that Sir Robert King and the rest were sent hither to treat with us (as they heard) for surrendering Duhlin, and other places under Command to which they were not called, but were altogether strangers to their transactions there concerning that Treaty, and that they did not know any thing of their commission, authority, or instructions, or how far they extended. But though the Parl. did lay hold of this called our second way of Overture, yet the propositions which were signed by us and the Council, wherein all his Mai. Protestant Subjects of this Kingdom as well of the Soldiery as others, & such as have adhered unto them, were a like concerned with us, were not to be passed over, for whether we did continue in the Government, according to the first way of Overture, or part with it (termed by you the second way of Overture, it was our main care and desire, that they should be secured in their persons, estates, and employments, which is not yet done to our satisfaction. And in that which concerneth ourself, the principal thing which in his Maj. direction and allowance for the rendering up of the Government, which was to precede and warrant all that we did propound to be done by us herein, is yet wanting, which we desire you to represent to those who employed you in the best manner you may. Exception 2. Our second Exception is, that you have no power to secure any of his Maj. Roman Catholic Subjects in their persons and estates, who have constantly adhered to the Government here, since the 22. of Octob. 1541. of whom we conceive care aught to be had in this present Treaty. To this you give these Answers. First that those who by authority of Parl. gave power to you to treat, did not take cognizance of any of the Roman Catholics in Ireland, that did adhere to the Government of this Kingdom against the Irish Rebels; which answer doth not satisfy us, but doth enforce the Exception, for their not taking cognizance of them, is the ground and cause of the Exception. Your second answer is, That (if any such be) it is probable the number is not considerable; And if they have done nothing against the Pari●● they need not any special security, but may expect as much as others, that have in like manner demeaned themselves, although they be of the Protestant Religion; which answer doth not satisfy, but giveth us more cause to insist upon the exception, because you say, it is probable that the number of them is not considerable, whereas we who have been upon the place know it to be otherwise both in number & quality of persons. And since his Maj. Protestant Subjects, who have served against the Rebels here, and done nothing against the Parl. are offered to be secured in their persons and estates, they may by the same rule of Justice expect the like assurance, & the greater regard ought to be of them, for that their Religion being made the pretence of the Rebellion, they do notwithstanding adhere to his Maj. protestant Subjects against the Rebels, who are of that Religion. Your third answer, viz. Power is given (as by an instruction delivered in the 16▪ of Novemb. is expressed) to protect such as will come under contribution, & to give them safeguard by the countenance of the Forces serving under the Parl. according to which they are to be protected in their persons and estates, as well from the violence of the soldiers under the Parliament, as of the Enemy, and this to be extended unto all, without distinction of Offence or Religion; which Answer doth not satisfy us, for the said instruction looketh rather to the Rebels who are to be brought under contribution, then to those who have continued good Subjects, and there●n there is no assurance given unto them for their enstate, as is in the same instruction to his Majesty's Protestant Subjects for their Estates. Your fourth answer is, If any thing can be reasonably offered in the behalf of such Papists, as have adhered to the present Government, and not been in the Irish Rebellion, it shall be also recommended back by you, to those, who employed you, in the best manner you can to out satisfaction; The latter part of which answer, being the best part thereof we desire may be pursued, for the first part thereof doth enforce the Exception, it being made a doubt whether any thing can be reasonably offered for such Papists as have adhered to the present Government, and not been in the Irish Rebellion, whereas nothing in reason can be offered against such, but that they should be secured in their persons and estates. Our third Exception is, That no assurance is given, that the Judges and Ministers of the Civil and Martial List, shall be continued in their places and employments, which is answered by you, as followeth: First, nothing is given us in charge, nor hath any thing been expressed by us concerning the removal of the Judges and Ministers of the Civil List, nor of any of them, which answer doth not satisfy us: for we desire by our Proposition, to have an assurance for the continuing them in their respective employments, which is not yet assented unto. Your second answer is, That in cases of like nature, it hath not been known, that persons so qualified have been continued and estiblished by Treaty, nor was it to your knowledge, ever heretofore insisted upon by any whomsoever; which answer doth not satisfy us, for though you might show, that the contrary hath been done in like cases (as we believe you cannot) yet, even for that cause, we have the more reason to insist upon it. Your third answer is, If it must be presumed, that they have offended the Parliament, yet assurance is given (and otherwise they can need none) for security to their persons, with enjoyment of their goods and estates in the Kingdom of Ireland, as if they had not offended, and have liberty to compound for the estates any of them have in England, and such Composition not to exceed two year's value: We are not satisfied with this your answer, for there is nothing here to assure them the continuance in their employments, and our Proposition made in their behalf for their continuance in their employments, cannot presume cannot presume a guilt; and it is no reason to say, that if they be not guilty, they need desire this assurance, for the Judges do well understand, that abundans cautela non nocet, and if it must be presumed that they have offended the Parliament, there is the more reason to insist on the Proposition for the continuing of them in their respective employments, they having been despoiled of all their estates. To your expression whereby you would satisfy us concerning the continuing in employment the Officers now under our Command, viz. That as you have not yet taken up a resolution (if the Treaty should succeed) to displace any: so you declare, it must be an extraordinary cause that must induce you to it, we easily believe, that as it is too early for you to declare a resolution to turn them out of their employments, (though such a resolution were taken up by you) till you possessed of the power to do it; so you may judge such a declaration, not to be the readiest way, to attain to that power by Treaty from us, which We are confident, is the only way whereby you will at this time attempt it, but when by that means you should be invested in that Power, the questiou is, whether you would not then understand that the Concurrence of some of the Marrianll List with us in the conclusion of the Cessations and peace here, the actual Service of some others in His Majesty's Armies in England, and the obedience given by all to some Commands, that may have been displeasing to the two Houses of Parliament in England, to be extraordinary and sufficient causes for their removeall, wherein, if you shall declare negatively, we shall rest satisfied as to that particular, not could our Demand of having them secured in their respective employments, be understood to reach to a forgiveness of such Crimes in future as may merit displacing; for which we confess, we can no more allege a precedent, than we believe you can, that ever the sword was demanded to be delivered by the Chief Governor of this Kingdom, to Commissioners of the Parliament of England, without the Command of the King. Exception 4. Our fourth exception being as followeth, viz. That great inconvenience may happen to all the Protestants of Ireland, who are to be included in this treaty, if they should thereby conclude themselves to submit to all Ordinances of Parliawent, is answered by you as followeth; Answer 1. Your first Answer is, we have declared▪ that their submitting to all Ordinances of Parliament is to be understood, no otherwise then as all others do, who have always adhered to, and never offended the Parliament; with which answer we are not satisfied, it being no more, then that we are to submit to all the Ordinances of Parliament; to which, those who are of the Parliament party submit, as the Covenant, the Directory, the abolishing of the Book of Common-prayer, etc. Answer 2. Your second answer is, we know of no Ordinance of Parliament that requireth the Covenant to be taken in the Kingdom of Ireland, with which answer we are not satified, for we know that it hath been pressed in all parts of the Kingdom, where the Parliament hath prevailed, as in the Provinces of Munster, Ulster, and Connaught, there being some Ministers not long since employed into Ulster, who went from Town to Town, and from City to City, pressing the Covenant, whereupon many Protestants did acquit their Commands and habitations in those parts, rather than they would subject themselves to it, and if the same was done without an Ordinance of Parliament, we have the more reason to insist, that his Majesty's Subjects may be secured against so violent and unwaranted pressures upon their Consciences. And if you know no Ordinances of Parliament which requireth the Covenant to be taken in the Kingdom of Ireland, you may the better undertake that it shall not be pressed; and if you be not instructed to suppress the Book of Common prayer, or impose though Directory, you may the better condescend to what is desired concerning both, so far as is expressed in our instructions. Answer 4. Your fourth answer is, It may also be considered, that your Lordship made Overture of submitting to the Direction of both houses of Parliament (and that exclusively to any other whatsoever) as to to the ordering and disposing of the Army, etc. if they should accept of your Overture, which could not be understood otherwise to be done, but by Ordinances of Parl, as to them from time to time should seem meet. We are not satisfied with this your Answer, the strength of your reason being thus; That we did submit to the direction of both Houses of Parliament for the ordering of the Army, etc. therefore no inconvenience can happen to the Protestants in Ireland, who are to be included in this Treaty, if they should thereby conclude themselves to submit to all Ordinances of the Parliament of England, which sure is no good Consequence, from one particular to conclude a general; And if you would declare that by submitting to all Ordinances of Parliament, were only intended such Ordinances as concern the ordering and disposing of the Army, though that offer of Ours was in case that way of accommodation, which is waved by the Parliament, were laid hold of (of any thing wherein we therefore conceive no use should be made in this Treaty, since that way laid aside) yet such a declaration would, as that point give satisfaction The fifth exception is, That the King's Direction for the delivery up of the Government is not obtained and that our Commissioners were commanded to forbear the delivering unto the Scottish Commissioners, the Duplicate of the Letters, which We and the Council had written to his Majesty concerning the same; To which you make these Answers, viz. That our Commissioners did declare, That if Supplies were not instantly dispatched, that We would take it for granted, that none would be sent, which was the ground of hastening the said Supplies, whereas the words of our Instructions wero, That if within a reasonable time after landing of our Commissioners; they did not advertise us, that those things we desired were on the way hither, or at least a considerable proportion of Money and Munition, and probable hope of the rest speedily after, that then we would take it for granted, not that no Supplies would come. but that our Propositions were rejected there, which strongly employed, and so was intended, that if we understood Supplies were on the way, we might then take it for granted, our propositions were accepted, which also we had cause to believe, for that our Commissioners by command of the Committee, before whom they were heard, signified to us, their message was cheerfully accepted, whereof the sending of Supplies was but a part; nor can it be reasonably objected to us, that we refuse those Supplies, since none of the Conditions wherein we expressed our willingness to receive them, is offered to us in manner as was desired, especially that fundamental one, of procuring the King's Command for delivering up the Sword, and Garrisons, which being the way fixed on by the Parliament, we much wonder, was not endeavoured (as well it might have been, and an answer had) before you came from London, and if it had been obtained, there had been no need of sending it to us till your arrival, and if it had been refused, the Parliament in their great wisdom and knowledge of the duty of one so highly trusted, would have found some other expedient to extend their assistance and protection to the Protestants, other than such as must blemish our honour and fidelity to all Posterity, nor is it a sufficient discharge to us, that his Majesty hath not inhibited us to proceed and conclude with you, his express command, being in this case absolutely necessary. And as for the suppositions and inferences, which you make out of the Letters writ by us to his Majey, and both houses of Parliament; as that it could not be imagined, the necessities being so great, under which we then were; that we would refuse such supplies from the Parliament in manner as they directed, till our letter should be from hence sent to New castle, and answer thereof returned to us: And that the Parliament had no reason to conceive, that we intended so to insist on the King's direction, as without it we would not conclude, etc. As also considering how passionately we represented to the Parliament, the importance of the City and Castle of Dublin, etc. and how undoubtedly all must miscarry, if Supplies did not speedily come, that yet the King's consent should be so insisted upon, as none of the forementioned considerations should purchase a dispensation therein: And to induce us thereunto, you propose unto us examples of the delivering up of other Garrisons and Forces in England, as in particular, that of Oxford, etc. without having any explicit direction from the King to deliver up the same. We conceive the case of Oxford to be different from this; For Sir Thomas Fairfax, to whom the City of Oxford was rendered, (after some time of formal Sing, and the shedding of blood on both fides) was not invited thither by those within to defend and relieve it against the expected attempts of another enemy; as those Forces now here with you were (upon certain Conditions) by us, but his coming before Oxford was unsent for, openly and declaredly to take by force of Arms that City: In the case of Oxford also, we have seen his Majesty's Command, directed to the Governor for the rendering thereof, which if you can produce to us for the giving up of these Garrisons, with the Ensigns of Royalty belonging to the Crown of this Kingdom, we will in like sort readily obey the same, notwithstanding some other disparity in the cases. And if the instructions we gave our Commissioners be looked into, Copies whereof were delivered by them to the Committee of both houses, all these suspicions, inferences, and Arguments will vanish, it being a certain and true rule, that no inference nor application is to be made contrary to that which is expressed, as our instructions were in this particular; for our first and principal instruction was, That we would surrender our place of Lieutenant. etc. to such as the Parliament should appoint, upon these following conditions. First, that they procure his Majesty's direction for the doing thereof, etc. But further to clear it, in our seventh and last instruction delivered unto our Commissioners, whereof the said Committee had likewise a Copy, it is further given in charge unto them in this manner: viz. If in the mean time whilst they take these Propositions and the rest into their considerations, and till they have procured his Majesty's direction as aforesaid, the Parliament be pleased to send over such Supplies, as may relieve the Garrisons from ruin, through want, or by the hostile attempts of the Rebels, the same shall be well husbanded for them, and employed only to those ends, both which instructions leave no place for inference or implication to be made contrary to express instructions. If the Parliament hath procured his Majesty's direction, the condition is performed, but if that be not done, the Forces notwithstanding may be received and employed in the present service, and ●o all those inconveniencies may be prevented, which are feared: But if nothing that we can do can give satisfaction, but to deliver up the Sword, render all the Garrisons, and other Commands to the pleasure of the Parliament, which we are bound by Oath to preserve and keep for His Majesty, before we do receive His direction therein, We doubt not but we shall be acquit herein, before God and men, if we insist upon the refusal of that which we cannot do without the violation of our Oath to God and the King. To sum me up in brief those particulars wherein we are not satisfied by any of your Papers, nor by any thing which was delivered in the Conference. First, you have showed us no direction from his Majesty to deliver the Sword, etc. which you say you have not procured. Secondly, you have not offered assurance to the Papists of this Kingdom, who have adhered to his Majesty's government since the 22. of October 1641. for their estates, which is confessed by you. Thirdly, you have not undertaken, that the Covenant shall not be pressed, nor that the Book of Common-prayer shall not be suppressed. Fourthly, you have given no assurance either for the continuance of the Judger and Officers of the Civil List, or the Officers of the Marshal in their respective employments, or the Clergy in their respective Rights, and incumbencies. Fiftly, you have given us no satisfaction in that great and main Objection touching the present Parliament, which would be dissolved, if that we should deliver the Sword in manner as is desired, The Papers do clear none of these particulars, and nothing was delivered positively in the Conference which doth any ways enlarge the former Papers. We know that in matters of so high and great concernment, you will go to the utmost Limits of your instructions, and that in these things which seem doubtful to us, you will (if any expedient can be found for the continuing the Treaty) represent them to those who employed you, in the best manner you can, for Our satisfaction; according to the promise made by you in your last Paper, for which we do return you thanks in the behalf of all His Majesty's Protestant Subjects, and those who have faithfully adhered to them. And for that full satisfaction cannot be given to us without your further Application to the Parliament, for enlarging your powers. We being resolved to leave no means unattempted, that may conduce to the preservation of his Majesty's Protestant Subjects in this Kingdom, and the Rights of the Crown of England, and to the end the Forces brought hither by you, may be employed to those good ends, whilst His Majesty's pleasure by us, and that of the Parliament by you is sought, do offer these following Propositions. First, that the Officers and Soldiers, sent hither by the Parliament of England be put into one, or more convenient Garrisons, and be commanded by their Respective Officers, who are to receive Orders from Us and the Governors of the places where they shall be Garrisoned, and to be subject to the Law's Marshal now in force in this Kingdom. Secondly, We desire, towards the keeping of the Army now under our Command for six weeks three thousand pounds, whereof two parts in money, and a third part in victuals. Thirdly, That there be an engagement from you to us on the behalf of the Parliament, that the Officers and Soldiers which are to be Garrisoned, as in the first Proposition is mentioned, shall do no Act prejudicial to the present Government here; And that in case we shall not at or before the expiration of the said six weeks agree, that they shall remove from those places out of our quarters, at such time as we shall direct. Fourthly, We shall engage Ourself unto you, that the said Officers and Soldiers, shall quietly and peaceably be permitted by Us to remove with their Arms, Provisions and other things belonging unto them to Shipboard, or to such other places out of Our quarters, as you Sir Robert Meredith, Sir Thomas Wharton. Sir Robert King, and Sir John Clotworthy, Knights, and Richard Salwey Esquire, or any three of you shall direct: And to these Our Propositions We desire your speedy Answer. ORMONDE. Dublin. 22. Novemb. 1646. HAving received your Lordship's papers of the 21. of November, and in them your return to what was first delivered inconference, and afterwards for your Lordship's satisfaction put in writing, and signed by us. And whereas in those papers, your Lordship desires a copy of the Instruction, whereby power is given us to agree for Pensions to the value of two thousand pounds per annum We have the light fit (that nothing may be wanting on our parts) herewith to deliver you a Copy of the said Instruction. And however upon perusal of your Lordship's paper of the 21. of November, we find little cause to believe, satisfaction will be received by your Lordship, as hath been andeavoured to be given by Us. Yet foras●●●●eh at your third paper of the 19 of November d●●d express, that when you should receive in writing signed by us, what war delivered in Conference to your Lordship, you would then declare unto us, whether or no you would rest satlsfied therewith, or upon the whole matter insist upon your refusal, we desire your Lordship speedily to give us your positive answer accordingly. And withal, we hold it fit to declare, that as we conceive the grounds of satisfaction offered by us, do remain unanswered by you Lordship, and particularly touching the King's consent and direction (which you call main and fundamental) we having made it appear that your Lordship's Overture to the Parliament, was, to put all your Forces and Garrisons under their sole Command (the King unconsulted with at all therein) so we no ways think fit (though our Instructions should therein anthorize us) to accept of the Propositions mentioned in the latter end of your papers, as an expedient to continue any longer. It yet your Lordship continue to refuse what we have offered, we can only give account thereof to those that employed us, and must leave it to the world to judge, whether those Exceptions, taken and insisted on by your Lordship, be consonant to those grounds and principles held forth in your Overture made to the Parliament, by which they were induced to send Succours hither, or whether all the particulars (so fare insisted on by your Lordship, that it app●●ar●s not to us, you will recede from any one thereof) be of equal concernment to that hazard, yea (according to your Lordships own representation) that Certainty of loss, not of a Kingdom only, but of Thousands of Protestants, and together with them, the Protestant Religion also. All which, by the great care and pious endeavours of the Parliament of England, might have been (through the blessing of God) prevented, if what we have oftered (and do yet offer) in their names he not by your Lordship refused. Rob. Meredith. Tho. Wharton. Rob. King. Io. Clotworthy. R. Salwey. A Copy of the Instruction mentioned in the former Paper. YOu, or any Three of you, have also hereby power given you to agree for such allowances to be paid to others by constans Pension, during the War of Ireland. (for the better and more fir me carrying on of this Work) as shall not exceed in the whole, the su●●me of Two Thousand Pounds per-annum, to all other persons, beside the Two Thousand pounds per annum, to the Lord of Ormonde: And those pensions to continue till they can receive the like benefit by their own Estates. Signed as the rest of the Instructions. Vera Copia Ex. W. Rowe. 22. Novemb. 1646. WHereas by your paper of the 22. of Nou. 1646. You affirm that you made it appear that our Overture to the Parliament was to put our Forces & Garrisons under their sole Command the King not consulted withal therein, we do positively affirm, that you neither have nor can make it appear, that we made Overture to the Parliament, to put all our Forces and Garrisons under their sole Command, the King unconsulted; for whatsoever hath been offered by us unto the Parliament by our Prop sitions and Instructions, We are constant thereunto, and still ready to perform. ORMONDE. 22. Novemb. 1646. HAving received your Lordship's paper of the 22. of November (which we conceive needs no reply) we desire to know whether your Lordships will return any further answer to our first paper of this day's date. Rob. Meredith. Tho. Wharton. Rob. King. Io. Clotworthy Rich. Salwey. 22. November 1646. WE may not return other Answer, than We have done in Our former papers, until We have Consulted His Majesty, and received His Direction therein. ORMONDE. 22. Novemb. 1646. WE having heard nothing from you since We sent Our last paper, We desire to know whether We shall understand this Treaty to be at an end for the present, that if neither Our Propositions. sent by Us to the Parliament of England, nor the Propositions We sent unto you for the stay of your men, be assented unto, in manner as is Propounded, We may consider what further course to take for the preservation of His Majesty's Subjects and the Rights of the Crown. ORMONDE. 22. Novemb. 1646. IN Answer to your Lordship's paper of the 23. of November We return; That We continue assured there is no other way according to the representation made by your Lordship to the Parliament, of preserving the Protestants of the Kingdom of Ireland, nor of the Rights thereof relating to the Kingdom of England, but by accepting the the Overtures made by us to your Lordship according to Our Papers delivered in; Your Lordship insisting upon a positive refusal thereof, we understand the Treaty to be at an end; And as for the offers lately made by your Lordship to us, we refer ourselves to our Answer already given thereunto, and can in no wise accept of the same. Rob. Meredith. Tho. Wharton. Rob. King. Jo. Clotworthy. Rich. Salwey. FINIS.