A PAIR OF SPECTACLES, Very useful, and needful, for all those that red Mr. Baxters catholic Charity, in his Book called the Cure of CHURCH DIVISIONS, that so they may see and understand the better what they red, and not be lead away with error instead of truth. Written by a Lover of Truth and Peace, and of all the People of Peace. Zech. 8. 19. Therefore love the Truth and Peace. Isa. 39. 8. For there shall be Peace and Truth in my dayes Printed in the Year, 1670. The preface to the Reader, COurteous Reader. Mr. Baxters Book tituled the cure of Church Divisions, accidentally, or rather providentially, coming to my hands, wherein he seems to discover so much of catholic Charity to the Church of Christ to recover and preserve it in unity, which is indeed in itself( if rightly exercised in the true light) a blessed Evangelicall frame of spirit, and work seasonable for this day, therefore I would have none to suppose that my intentions in that which follows, is either to quarrel against the thing in itself, no● i● i● a Christ like frame of spirit, indeed to have a heart and hand in truth of love to the Lord, and his people, to endeavour to heal the divisions of his Church, provided there be spiritual skill in the work, that we miscarry not, and that under the notion of curing Church divisions. We do not endeavour the cure of the breaches that God hath made in the antichristian Church, the whore of babylon, in stead of curing the Church of Christ, and so fall foul with the true Church because they dare not unite to the cure of babylon▪ Or, Secondly. Against all the matter contained in the Book, nay for there are many precious and solid truths therein, worthy to be observed of all the Lords people, though much of mixture of that which is not sound, especially in matters relating to the Church of Christ, which is the cause of the ensuing lines in which I have endeavoured plainness and brevity by passing by many things of differing apprehensions; only fixing on such things as are of general and common concernment amongst all sorts of serious christians in this enquiring day, nor, Thirdly, Is it the person gifts or grace, of the man, I meddle with or in the least design to oppose, or lay open to contempt he is a man who in Face( to my knowledge) I never saw, but by what I have red in his works, I have always judged him to be a man both of gifts, parts and grace, though in many things differing from me, and I must say that those unsound things, brought forth in this book, aggravated with the circumstance of time and end, hath not destroyed my Charity towards him looking on it as that which flows from human infirmities and mistaken zeal, and my desire is that all that fear the Lord, may have the like charity towards him, and towards all who conscientiously differ from them, that hold to the head Christ Jesus, without which they can be no part of his Church Eph. 4. 15. Col. 2. 19. these things I first premise, there by to prevent any mistakes, offence, or scandal that might through temptation, come in the mind of the Reader relating either to him or me, my method in the ensuing lines, is by way of inquiry into some of the most material things, stated in his book wherein the difference lieth between him and( as I think I may safely say) most of the most serious and enquiring, both ministers and Christians at this day, about Conformity or Nonconformity, to the requirings & customs of men, in the things relating to Jesus our Lord, & his church, neither would I have any to think that my manner of speaking in discovery of the evil of the matter, is thereby to derogate from the godliness of the person, being very sensible that good men are liable to temptation, & they may, either through error in judgement; self love, or mistaken zeal, miscarry and do work against the Lord, when they think they are working for him, I say no more, but leave you to that which followeth and to the guidance of the Lord in the reading of it. A Pair of Spectacles, needful, and useful for all that red Mr. Baxters book called the Cure of CHURCH DIVISIONS. 1. Query. WHether the difference between the younger and elder sort of Christians and the Pride that younger Christians are liable to and thereby are subject to miscarry in his 1 and 2 divisions, have so much in it as Mr. Baxter pretends unto? Although it is true, there is much of weight in it, and doubtless youth, and younger years, should reverence age, especially where it is found in a way of righteousness and submissively wait and inquire, sudden, rash, and unadvised proceedings of young heads, in their judgings, separations, and divisions, in religious things, have been too common, and good it would be if that both young and old, had more care and consceince, to be seeking after solidness and clearness, in soundness of judgements; to act in the great and weighty Affairs of Religion. Yet I Query whether young Christians, must pin their faith and practise on the judgement of the aged, without solid and satisfactory grounds from the Scriptures? And whether it do not concern every Christistian according to their capacities, to come to a right understanding in the matters of Religion, relating both to faith and practise; as much and as well as their Teachers? I mind as to a right and true understanding, seeing that every one must be saved by his own faith, and every one must give an account of himself to God, Rom. 14. 10. And whether we have not clear instances in Scripture, of Gods teaching young men beyond the old, some of which I shall instance, 1 Sam. 2. 18 19. and chap. 3. throughout, a lively instance of the Lords appearing unto the Child Samuel, when old Ely was left out in that matter of Elihu, Job. 323. to v. 10. of the Prophet, Psal. 119. 98. 99. 100. v: and the young man the Prophet, 2 King 9. 1. 4. and 1 King. 13. as by the story is evident, a younger Prophet came from Judah by the word of the Lord to Jerebeam, and an old Prophet deceived him to his damage, v. 1. 11. 18 Timothy was young and youthly, as is evident by the Scripture, 2 Tim. 3. 15. with 1 Tim. 4. 12. Let no man despise thy youth, 2 Tim. 2. 22. yet such a Minister of Christ, as of whom Paul speaketh that he had no man like minded, i.e. No Minister li●e minded, who did naturally care for the estate of the Church, Timothy the youngest, yet the best Minister that Paul had to employ in the Lords and the Churches service. And whether the ministering Elders, Pastors and Rulers, were indeed chosen out of the elders, in age as Mr. Baxter asserteth pag. 3. or out of the best gifted and qualified persons in the Church whether young or old? according to Acts 6. 3. 1 Tim 3. chap. And whether that qualification mentioned v. 6. not a Novice, intends one young in years, or one newly come to the Faith, planted or sown of late, new begun i. e. in Christianity. By all which it seems that although it is a truth, that it very much concerns young Christians, very much to take heed of Pride, and to inquire and learn in subjection of their teachers, yet itis honourable and commendable both for young and old to search the Scriptures to see whether the things taught them by their elders be so or not, Act. 17. 11. and not pin their faith on any mans teaching besides and without the Scriptures, nor rest in the interpretations thereof, without an understanding therein, the contrary seems to incline too much to Popish Doctors, to believe as the Church Believes, and that must be, the Churches representives, i.e. e. their Clergy, and called formerly, commonly opposed by the Protestants. 2. Query. Whether that aged Men and Teachers, have not in former dayes( and so may still) been as liable to miscarry and misled the people of God, as the younger, see instances for this Isa. 9. 15. 16. The ancient and the honourable he is the head, the Prophet that teacheth lies, he is the tail, for the leaders of this people cause them to err, &c. And who was it that rejected Christ, when he came in the flesh, but the elders and leaders of the people, Acts 4. 11. hence Christ saith, Mat. 15. 14. they be blind leaders of the blind, and whence is it that the Apostle exherteth. 2 Tit. 2. that the aged men be sober, grave, temperate, sou●● in saith, &c. If they were not liable to miscarry as well as the younger. see ver. 6. and indeed the Papal Church especially hath preferred learning and age into the ruling Chair, as well as many others, and yet for all that, hath come never the near to truth, Learning and Age if not ruled by grace, hath the more craft to deceive and whether old men are not liable to be proud as well as the young; else what means the Apostle, exhorting them to be sober, the same as he exhorteth young, v. 6. And whether in some case they have not the greater temptations to it then young Christians, as their learning, abilities, long standing in the Church, &c. who so knows themselves, must know this besides other worldly temptations, that may unfit them to know, and practise what they ought. And whether Mr. Baxter from his own words if not condemned, of Religious Pride, in his great design in his book he saith page. 17. if they are the great number of the Godly, who differ from you, and you are singular in your conceits, in this case rash confidence of your own opinions is too palpable a s●gn of Religious Pride. Query. Whether the greater number of the Godly in this Nation of all sorts, do not differ from Mr. Baxter in his present design of Union, and Church Communion, with all? And whether he hath indeed followed this his own rule, in reading his supposed light, in contradiction to the generation of the godly who are undersufferings for unconformity o● this day? and whether he could have done it without an over conceitedness of his own understanding above the rest of his brethren? Query. Whether the description Mr Baxter hath given of the Universal Church, gathering in all the Christian World( a itis called) from East to West, and from North to South▪ ●use●vits, and Roman, too, in some sense, and the necessity 〈…〉 Communion with them all, as the catholic Church professing 〈…〉 ty be according to the true rule, according to which all should speak and do? for clearing of which I, Query 1 Whether any particular Church can, or lawfully may, be accounted, a particular Church of Christ, or any part of the Universal, that is not made so by the power, and according to the way, and order of the Lord, head, and law giver, of the universal Church? and which is by the Preaching of the Gospel and conversion of Souls, both to Christ, and the Church, and none other hath he appointed, or authorized together his Church, but his Ministers and this in term is( I think) by most assenced to even Mr. Baxter himself, often affirms that the power of the keys is in the hands of his Minister, both to let in and out. 2 Whether a people can or may religously without any wrong to Christ, be called the Church of Christ that is made so by human power and law, without any works of grace effected by the doctrine of the Gospel when our 〈◇〉 and law giver hath appointed the Ministry of the Gospel as the only ordinary way for the conversion of Sinners and gatherings of Churches and whether those Nations, and Churches, that are so united may be accounted( according to any new Testament rule) the Churches of Christ? and whether such Churches being so constituted by human power, and owning such human power; for head Lord and Law-giver of the Church in all Divine things, can be said to own Jesus Christ for Lord and Lawgiver, 3. Whether, what Mr. Baxter makes so much of professing to own Christ page. 25 that the common professors do profess to stand to their baptismal covenant, and to all the parts of Christianity and do any ways help the water? when they came not into that profession, by any rule, or law of Christ, neither do their profession answer the rule and law of Christ, being ignorant of it and enemies to it, people may profess ●f visibly profess a lie, profess to know God, and Christ and in work deny him, for they( in some sense) do visibly profess Christ, yet visible deny him, as their Lord and King to be ruled by him, profess to be ruled by the human power, in religious concernments, relating alone to Christ. 4. Whether a visible profession merely entered unto, by persons in the common National Profession be not taken up upon tradition, and the command of the Magistrate, but the body of the people under gross ignorance and profaneness, and whether Mr. Baxter himself doth not look upon them as a people unconverted to God; and that to call such a nation of people, the true Church and Spouse of Jesus Christ, be not a contradiction to the whole design of the holy Scriptures, which style the Gospel Churches in the E 〈…〉 of the Apostles to them, a people called in Christ Jesus, Saints by calling, sa 〈…〉 fied in Christ Jesus, such as had received the spirit, but the body of this generation cannot bear so much as the names of these things, but persecute such as are so; If this were seriously attended to by this person and of many others, that▪ tis as needful to gather Churches, ●●● of a people of a traditional Magistratical profession, the spirit whereas i● ignorance profaneness superstition, enmity to, and persecution of the power of Godliness and the professions of it, that are ready to ston Godly Ministers that are sent to them,( Mr. Baxtor and others of his persuasion being judges) whether, I say, there be not as much need of a new calling and gathering of such a people into congregations, as among Papists or Infidels, the word of the Apostle is clear, 2 Tim. 3. 5. Speaking of the profession of these latter days which makes the times perilous, as the Apostle speaks; Having a form of Godliness, but denying the power thereof, from such turn away, such as are vulculy, lovers of pleasures more then lovers of God, despisers of those that are good, the proper characters of Mr. Baxters national profession,( in which I appeal to his own conscience,) now from such turn away, if from common conversation, as some urge, much more in Church-ship and distinguishing ordinances, if purity in the administration of them be any concernment of the honour of Jesus Christ. And whether the mixed profanation of the holy things of Jesus Christ, hath not been one of the high provocations of the Nations, &c. But a pure formal reformation, by answering a late chistical question or two, that subscribing a paper to own such a one as his minister, which is a sl●ght healing of the hurt, and a way of hardening many in their unregenerate state, and whether Jesus Christ will thank such is profess themselves his servants to entititle such an impure abominable Spouse to him, in whom the spirit of whoredoms as found, and is expressly called a Harlot, Ezekiel 16. Hosea. 1 Rev. 17. as Mr. Baxter would do of all the profession in the World, And whether it can by any word be justified to endeavour to keep persons in a way of profession as the Church of Christ, and yet are Hippocrites, must no● expect to give an account for such a work in the day of accounts? who bring carnal unconverted souls into a visible profession, before and without any work of conversion, and so make and maintain a Church and put them upon the Lord Christ, and say itis his Church and deceive and wrong poor souls with the name of Christian, without the nature of Christianity and say they can be but Hypocrites I must distinguish between Hypocrites in the true Church, who voluntarily sand themselves, and so deceive themselves and others in their profession, that will be to themselves and such as are forced in, without their own knowledge, and consent which is the case now in question, though after( such a carnal profession as this is being the custom and self union of the country) they may willingly own it, yet this will not excuse the Authors, and promoters, of such a work in the day of Christ. 5. Query whether the Baptismal covenant so often mentioned by Mr. Baxter hath any rooting in the Scripture? or any such thing as a Baptismal covenant expressed, in any such terms in the Scripture? and whether baptism be not held forth as a duty following faith and repentance, by which persons visibly give up themselves to the Lord Jesus, Mar. 16. 16. Gal. 3. 27. whether infants do or can make any such covenant as Mr. Baxter speaks of, or answer the rule, in professing of faith and repentance? and if it be supposed that they may do it by their parents, or others as the use hath been, then where is the rule from Christ for such a practise? 6. Query, whether infants do or can in any measure answer those things stated by Mr. Baxter, page.. 103. as necessary to entitle to baptism and Church-Membership? he saith. 1. It must be a signification of the mind, by word or writing, or some inteligible sign. Query whether infants do or can, in any measure answer this? 2. It must seem to be understood, for no man consenteth to what he, understandeth not, then whether infants do or can understand this baptismal covenant? therefore do not consent, and so are made Christians( such as they are) without any consent, and against it too which is contrary to Mr, Baxters own expressed terms as well as in the Scriptures. 3. It must seem to be serious, for that which is apparently dissembled is well, and what seriousness is in infants in this matter I leave all to judge, and what is done, or pretended to be done by others for them, is but dissembled and feigned in their stead, itis not themselves therefore well in Mr. Baxter own judgement. 4. It must be a present giving up of ourselves to Christ, and not only, a promise, defuturo, that we will here after take him for our Saviour and Lord, whether this be performed by infants, a mean capacity may judge. 5. It must seem to be 〈◇〉, and not constrained, for then it is not serious; observe, if this be found in infants, but rather the contrary, not voluntary, but constrained, though much passive, being born to it, yet ordinarily show their dislike by their crying being offended of it. 6, It must seem to be deliberat, and resolute, and settled, and not only the effect of a mutable passion; this goeth to make it a real profession in the common sense of all man kind. These six things Mr. B●x●er stateth as obsolutely necessary to baptism and visible profession of all Church members he saith, that it must be observed what a profession of Christianity is, which in titleth to baptism, not which followeth baptism; but which intiteleth to baptism and Church membership and objectively it must be the whole baptismal covenat must be professed, no less is to be taken as a profession of Christianity, and as to the act, it must be first a Signification of the mind &c. And page.. 110. he saith, indeed God would not have any Man admitted into the Church; and to its Communion, in his own way and on his own terms, the way and terms are of Christs appointment that they must profess faith, and repentance is his appointed condition, that the Ministers be the public Judge of this profession, and accordingly receive them solemnly by baptism and that they must enter under the hands of the keybearers of the Church, all this is Christs institution. Query. whether infants be capable of all these things by him so clearly and fully stated, at any one of them? 2. If this as Mr, Baxter saith, be Christs institution in the entering of persons into his Church, who or what man of conscience, dare to receive any into his Church any other way, then he hath instituted and ordained? 3. Whether this principle of Mr. Baxter so plainly stated, as that which entitleth to baptism, and Church communion, without such a profession, there can be not title to it, have not fully overturned and contradicted all that he hath said about his catholic Church? for his catholic Church as such as was and are baptized in infancy, before and without any such profession as is by him minded I dare say that not one in ten thousand, of Mr. Baxters visible Church, hath entered by such a profession, therefore in his own judgement, all must-be null, he else where saith in his Book, that all Baptized persons are members of the visible Church, so that its aparant Mr. Baxter makes members of his visible Church, contrary to Christs institu●ion, and contrary to his own judgement. 4. whether Mr. Baxter be so well in his wits, as he himself supposeth, as to writ at such a rate, against all the visible profession of God●iness, at this day in the Nation, that is out of the old common▪ road, or way, and so clearly correct and answer himself in the whole, as he hath done in his affections for if whac Mr. Baxter hath here affencted be true, there is no true national; or parochial, Church in the World, no nor where thc entrance in Infancy, without this profession of faith and repentance. 7. Whether if we be fincere in our Souls to God, and true in what we pretend to be, to own Jesus for our Lord and his word for our rule, we have any ground to own any other particular, or catholic Church visible, but such as in the primitive times? and that is a people gathered out of the world by the preaching of the gospel, to faith, Repentance, Baptism, and communion, in particular congregations, and all the Churches, where the Universiall Church, and whether th●s be not the undoubted rule of our Lord, unto which we all ought to take heed unto? what ever custom, and traditions of men, have been or are to the contrary? and whatever obsurdi●ies may be supposed to follow▪ as the making of the Kingdom of Christ so little, and as good none at all, as to be a King and have no Kingdom or so small that as good as none, and that those that so deals, as to out him of so great a part of his Kingdom, may next turn such Traytors to him as to out him of all; and that i● the way to make the World turn athifts, to hear of a King that hath so small a Kingdom for a King with so small a Kingdom is next to him that hath none ●● thus he talks or to this purpose, and that it doth wrong to the souls of men to keep them from owning him to be King whose Kingdom is so small and from whence I. Query. 1. whether it be not dishonourable to Christ, to pretend a Kingdom of Rebells for him, and to enlarge his Kingdom, like the Kingdom of this world? and to put the world upon him, when he hath said my Kingdom i● not of this world, to make a Kingdom for Christ far worse( as to him and his government then the Kingdoms of the world are to their earthly Kings? Whether we may rationally imagine that the Lord will accept of such a Kingdom, and own and approve of those that have prepared it, and put it upon him? And whether it doth not more wrong to the s●uls of men? 1. To deceive them with the name of Christion, and Church, when there is no such thing and 2. Whether it be not a more likely way, to turn the world into Athism, in respect of Christ when you propound him to be a spiritual holy King, whose Kingdom( according to Mr. Baxters word) is filled with filthiness, and abomination, worse then the Turks and Pagans so that the very name of Christian Religion, is become an abhorring both to Jews and Turks, when they see and here that that pretended Kingdom, and catholic Church of Christ, is more wicked and abominable then theirs, all Mr. B●x●ers help for it is that it s the Pastors fault, where it is a miss that they should look to it, and itis their sin, but the members hath no power( but to submit) unless it be in an ●●orderly way to deal with them &c. Which is indeed the only way in a true Church, but to prescribe this in such a Church, where neither pastor nor people have power, if they had will, and the persons to be dealt with would quickly swallow up those that would be so strict as to set about such a work, and indeed that is not the way, to take that f●r a Church of Christ which is none of his, and to talk of sweeping such a Church till it comes to be clean, but rather to begin a new and to separate the precious from the vile, they that so do in the humble, obedient, and sincere spirit of the Gospel; shall be as Gods Mouth to his People, Jer. 15. 10. and the sincere in heart will be after them. Ps. 94. 15. I believe Mr. Baxter is in the ●ag end of the day, and have undertaken a work that will be too hard for him. 8. Qu●ry. Whether Mr. Baxter was well wrought( as in his 5●h direction) in so exactly studying, and compacting, the sins and miscarriages of the saints, and Churches of old, thereby to lay a foundation and to justify so goodly a building, as he is pleading for? and whether such a thing as this, be not a likelier way to make his Church turn absolute atheists, finding such ●utoloque of th● best saints, in their sins, made ready to their hands in his book? whether they convince any serious sou●s to so universal a commumon? Query. 9. Whether it be true or not, that the Nations or the profession thereof be a profession of saint ship? as he insinuateth page. 54. or whether Saint-ship and holiness two, be not an adherency to them? let the wise in heart judge. 10 Query. whether all, or any of the old Testament Examples, of the saints and Churches sins and failings, do reach the case in hand? the New Testament Church being another constitution neither national, provintial, or paroachiall, but in every Nation he that feareth God and worketh righteousness, shall be accepte●h Act. 10 35. A people gathered out of every Nation, both Jew, and Gentill and as for the examples of the evils, and sins of the Churches in the New Testament, it o●l● imports; that true Churches rightly constituted, may have evil things, and persons, in and amongst them for which they may not be immediately separated from, till all due means have been used for a reformation, but in no case do this prove the profane world( because brought irregulerly under the name of Christian and Church) to be the Church of Christ. 11. Query. Whether the di●tinction Mr. Baxter maketh and advices others to take heed unto, of the visible and invisible Church, will according to rule run at such a random as he pretends? He saith. page.. 33. direct. 5. understand rightly, the true difference between the mystical, and visible Church, and the qualifications of their members and do not confounded them as if it were the same persons only that must be members of both, that the mystical Church, indeed hath none but true saints but the visible Church containeth a multitude of Hypocri●s &c. 1 Query. 1. Whether the visible Church should not be all sincere and regenerate, as far as those conserved in the matter, can by the rule of charity judge at their reception: and because of our weakness, and failableness, in the matter, who are to judge by the outward appearance, of the truth of their faith and repentance, that freely offer themselves to obey the Lord, if hypocrites come in, the Lord hath ordained a way when discovered to expulse them out again, without repentance which clearly argues that God would have none but the regenerate in the visible Church, Hypocrites are not there approvedly, by any rule from Jesus Christ but they must give an account, and be judged for it and that even here by the Church if discovered, if not, yet here after at the day of judgement, 1 Ti. 5. 24, Mat. 22 12. 13. So that the visible Church should be the regenerate, and are so to be accounted, till they discover themselves to be other wise and although the Lord knows who are his, and who are hypocrites and knew Judas was a hypocrite that argues not that God aproves it, and alowes it Judas came to a dreadful end, and many are the woes denounced by our Lord against hypocrites. Mat. 23. that the visible Churches should be of the regenerate, and were so reputed is evident by the manner of the Apostles writing to them, as if they were all regenerate, so 1 Cor. 1. 2. 2 Cor. 1. 1. such as were to visible appearance santified in Christ Jesus called to be Saints: Phil. 1. 6. 7 being confident that he that hath begun the wo●k will perform it &c. even as it is meet for me to think thus of you all. 1 ●h. 1. 1. 4. knowing brethren your election of God. 1 Pet. 1. 1. 2, with multitudes of the like, where the visible Church are accounted to be such as are of the regenerate, and would have us so to understand, and hope of every one, and though there have been, and probably are and may be hypocrites in the visible Church yet it is the sincere that are indeed the Church of whom Christ is the head Eph. 5. 25. 26. 27. and of no other Church, would I be a member but of the Church of the regenerate i. e. professi●● to be such to be such and of whom it is meet I should so think. Query. Whether the Churches strictly gathered, according to the rule of the Lord and Law giver, hath not had, and may have, some Hypocrites, and bad members, as was in the primitive times, and still are found by sad experience, though the poor blind, and profane World, be not heaped into this number, and because Hypocrites have been and may be in he true Church, whether those men do good service, either to God or Man, that make up a Church of Hypocrites; or multitudes of Hypocrites. 12. Query. Whether Mr. Baxter, do not prosecute his matter suitably? a Ministry; like his Church, for now indeed I think he must have such, if any at all. Direct. 17. page. 113. 114. He saith that an ungodly Man may be a Minister and that all his Ministrations are va●id, as to the Church, and that the Church, i● not to take them for no Ministers that want Grace totally, I suppose Mr. Baxter intends; by ungodly, and wanting grace totally, that it is to visible appearance to the Church, for otherwise it suits not the case in hand, i.e. e. Visible Communion, nor visible Church, nor admi●● of any doubt, if the person ●● gracious in appearance to the Church, and ungracious before the Lord, we agree that such a persons administrations are val●d in the Church, for he is to be counted a godly Man and Minister▪ while he so walketh, but to say that an ungodly man, totally voided of grace, is a Minister, and so to be owned by the Church, is so absurd an abomination, as that such a person, a known wicked person, must be rejected from membership, 1 Cor. 5. 13. and a person voided of grace, such a one as loveth not the Lord Jesus, must be accursed from the Church, 1 Cor. 16 22. But these must( or at least may) be his Ministers, in his Church, he saith that no people should preser such an ungodly Minister before a better but they should submit to such rather then to have none. By which it most fully appears, that they are visibly ungodly and graceless Ministers that he intends, so the blind led the blind, both are like to fall into the ditch. Query. Whence is it that grace should not be a qualification of a Minister as well as of a member, but with Mr. Baxter it seems to be no part of the quallification of his visible Church; absolutely necessary either for Member or Minister a hopeful Church is this like to be. 13. Query. Whether Mr. Baxters folly be not made manifest to all men that have eyes to see, to make such a noise and stir in the world of the greatness of his Love to, and zeal for the catholic Church, when all the while he falls foul with the Church and sincere Professors of the Lord, charging them with p●ide and sinfulness in separating from such a Church as is by him p●eaded for, that from head to tail abhor godliness, and godly persons, and love wickedness, a-sink of sin and abomination. 14. Query. Whether the visible catholic Church in the profession put upon it( pleaded for by Mr. Baxter can or may by any religious, and rational Soul unbiased, be accounted the visible catholic Church of Christ, approved, and to be owned by the Saints, when it is on all hands, judged, that this Church in the generality thereof is more horidly and barbarousl● wicked, then the Turks and Indians, this Christian World, called the Church to be an abhorrency for their wickedness to the Pagan world, O dreadful Church for any g●atious Soul to pled for. 15. Query. Whether Mr. Baxter, and Mr. Toms two great Antagonists in former days, but now reconciled in this so sad a work( as Mr. Baxter confesseth, and commends Mr. Toms for this learned work) two professed pastors, unto two particular congregations, have not brought their congregations or themselves to a bad pass; that when the wind turned▪ to leave them to shift for themselves, and to make it their work to pled for baal, that so if they c●uld turn not only their own congregations, but all the separated people in the Nation back again to Babylon. 16. Query. Whether we have not grounds to suppose that Mr▪ Baxter is preparing the way back again to Rome, and whether he hath not so far digged it up, all things well considered as that there is scarce a ston in the way to hinder, more then was in his return to the Church by him distinctly pleaded. For he saith in his Epistle or Preface, that were it not for two things he should in Charity fear to suspect them of Antichristianity, and the two things are, 1. If they were not the inqui●●●s for the division of the Christian world by a false center, and by impossible terms of Unity, and by the engine of te●ring, dividing impositions. 2. If among them were not found the blood of the Saints and Martyrs of Jesus, &c. Now if these be the things that prevents and nothing else, as by his word in that place seems clear that were it not for these two things he should fear so much) a● to suspect them of Antychristianity, and if not so much as suspected of that, no ground to withdraw Communion. Now if both these blocks( ●●● imposing impossible terms of unity with good contience, so ter●ing and dividing, and persecution on th●se that cannot subscribe to such impositions) were in his way so far as he is ●●turned. and he can leap over them with so much case, and is offended with his brethren that cannot leap after him. I know not why he may not if occasion be, leap next leap into Rome. and if all the rest of the fi●thyness of the Whore of babylon, can be swallowed, and passed ever, why not this also? 17 Query Whether it be not the most clear and safe distinction of the universal vissible Church of Christ, to be all the Churches in the world, united by the word and spir●it, on the visible profession of regenetation, repentance, saith and obedience to their head and Lord? in which Churches Probab●y may be many hypoerites and in which Church, probably may be several distinct apprehensions, in circomstantiall things, which ought notwithstanding to own each other in love, and not to UnChurch each other though as to personal fellowship upon an instituted Church account, each to exercise their liberty and all regenerated believers in every place to be the mystical Church of Christ on earth, whether in England, Rome, or else where. 18 Query. Whether we have no grounds to suspect that in as much as I hope Mr. Baxter is real and stretched out large in his heart in love to the Church ye evil love hath gotten an advantage over him as sometime over Peter, from his love to his Mother( to carry his love the wrong way, i.e. e. to a mistaken Church so to make him instrumental in this large spirit of love to do his work, and build up his Church, in stead of the Church of Christ, and to engage all the ungodly to f●ll in with him, in that bui●ding. And whether it wou●d not be more christian like to love in Judgement, and according to rule, i.e. e. To love churches, and be●ievers, as such, the best christian●( if we know them) as such, &c. And to love men a● men, and persecutors as such, and Babylon as such, and not jumble ●p all into one visible catholic Church, and so make the Church a cage of every unclean and hateful bide, let that be Babylons work, and not of the members of the Church of Christ it is to be feared that there are and will be too many foolish Virgins in this, Church of Christ, but let us not make it up of the carnal and profane rough, far be it from any that love the Lord Jesus to do such a work. So that I suppose Mr. Baxter hath grounds sufficient to suspect that Satan hath beguiled him and been too hard for him in the matter in hand? for though I hope for all this that he hath done, he is godly in the main, yet may he suppose himself to be liable to miscarry and that by the deceit of the subtle adversary us others of the Lords servants have before him, and as Peter to whom the Lord said, get thee behind me Satan, &c. That in such an angel like way, in a way of love, Universal Love, thereby to effect that which I believe all his roaring persecutions will not accomplish, if strength of grace support, no nor this lovely song shall inchaunt the hearts of the seri●us and understanding, to dance after the Devils pipe, O that ever the love of Christ and the love of the Church, should be improved to so wrong an end. And that which seems most strange is that notwithstanding he generally acknowledgeth the necessity of the new birth, and that not only outward moral●y and civilly, but all the profession in the world without the truth of Grace in the heart leaves at the best but Hypocrices. That he should have such a zeal, to keep the profane Hypocritical world, under the name and notion of the church of Christ, to their own eternal ruin. Query. 19. whether Mr. Baxter hath not red in Scripture( as he seemeth to imply in his book) of a separation when not from heathens only? but from pretended Christians and Churches in the old Testament when the true Church had so far corrup●ed itself; he as to be put a way Hose. 2. 2. and Jer. 15. 19. the Prophet had separated and must not return, but his work was to take out the precious from the vile, and in the New Testament. Eph. 5. 11. 12. have no ●ellowship with the unf●u●●ful work● of da●kness, but rep●ove them rather. i. e. workers, as well as works implyed in the word reprove them what the work●. or the workers ●●, be not ye therefore ●ertakers with them fellowship ord●narily relates to fellowship in re●igious things, 2 li. 3. 5. From such turn away, or be ye separate and ver. 2. 9. sai●h the Lord Christ, I know the Blasph●my of th●se that say they are Jews and are not, but are th● Synagogues of Satan, that is such as say they are Christians Churches of Christ and are not, they do lie and are Blasphemers of God and his Church, there is a double Blasphemy ordinary in the false Church. 1. They be lie the Lord, in saying they are his Church, when they are not, what greater blasphemy, then for a notorious strumpet, to say she i● the wife of an honest man, when she hath no relation to him, thereby to cover her lewdness, and secondly blasphemy the true Church, the true Jews, with lies, and falshoods, and persecutions v. 10. and I take this as one certain rule, or discovery of a false Church, which is made up by human power persecuting all that diff●r from them▪ 20. Query. Whether Mr. Baxter hath not cause to take a review of his work again, and lay aside all self conceit on the one hand, and prejudice on the other hand, not making his own wisdom, will, or human parts, his rule or guide in the matter, but the Scriptures of truth▪ impartially understood and applied, and whether if he do so in good earnest, he may not yet come to see, that he hath done work much of the same nature with those the Lord complains of Ezek 13. 22. and may repent thereof in time: I shall a little turn aside to Mr. Baxters 10. questions proposed, page. 265. Query. 1. Do you believe that all baptized, professed Christians( not denying any essential part of Christianity) are Christs universal Church? Ans. I do believe, that all baptized, professed christians( that were baptized according to the rule and law of Christ, with all that sincerity profess Christ according to the light, they have attained not denying any assentiall part of Christianity are Christs Universal, visible, Church. Query. 2. Do you not believe that this Church is only one and that every particular Church and every Christian is a part thereof? Ans. I believe, that unity in the Church of Christ, is desirable, and that there are not two Universal, visible, Churches, and that this Universal, visible, Church, is not limited within the circumferance of any one sect, or way, or of any one Nation, but includes all that profess Godliness in Christ Jesus, and that call on his name in truth, in every place 1. Cor. 1. 2. yet I believe that this Universal, visible, Church( by reason of ignorant, and other accasions) are in various divided apprehensions, about the matters and manners of worship though a greeing in faith, by reason of which, they cannot as yet, see the way clear for communion with each other, in all the ordinances of Christ, as exercised in a rightly constituted Church. Query. 3. Do you not believe that it is Un 〈…〉 in any case whatsoever, to separate from it? and that to separate from the Universal Church, it visible to separate from Christ? Ans. I do believe, that to separate from the Universal visible Church of Christ, must flow from ignorance, or pride, or both; and is dangerous, and that who so doth it, do vis●bly separate from Christ but to separate from the Synagogues of Satan, and those that say they are a Church, and part of the Universal Church when they are not, but do lie, is no sin against the Lord, but the duty of every sincere Christian. Query. 4. Do you not believe, that to give a bill of divorce, to the Universal Church, or to many hun●red parts of it, or to any one part of it, and to declare that they are none of the Church of Christ, is not great arrogancy, and injury to men and to Christ himself? Ans. I do so believe, and I do likewise believe, that it is as high a piece of arogancy, to thrust a people upon the Lord as his Church when they are not, but the Synagogue of Satan, and as great a wrong to Christ, and a greater wrong to men then the other, for it deludes the poor blind Christian( yet antichristian) World▪ with the name, without the nature, of Christiani●y; to their eternal ruin were it not for that probably, and in a way of reason, they might be more likely to be converted to the Lord in truth, who must be accountable to the Lord for it in the end, he knoweth, see Jer. 6. 14. 15. 5. Query. dare you say before God, let me have no part in any of the prayers, of all th●se Churches on earth, that use liturgy as culpable as ours? because, I will have no Communion with them, d●e you set so light by your part in their prayers. Ans. I think this is a useless and needless question they are strangers to me, I am not able to fix where this Church is in all its parts. But how ever, I reject not the prayers of any true Christians nor of any part of the Universal Church of Christ, as for the litergies you talk of, I meddle not with, the New Testament Church in the primitive institution were strangers to it, and so am I. that because our Lord made aforme of prayer, as the doctrine and rule for his disciples, therefore men may make forms one for another, though they be not Christ, is yet a riddle to me, when the scripture saith we know not what to pray for as we ought, but the sp●rit ●elpe●h our infirmities &c. Rom 8. 26. not only we know not how, but what to pray for it helpeth not only in the manner, with sights and groans &c. but in the matter, for we know not what to pray for &c. Qu. Whether these that make prayers for others not put themselves in the room of the spirit▪ and so become their Idol? and whether it would not be much likelier to do service to the s●uls of all, in a state of nature, to let them to know that all though on some account itis the the duty of all to pray, and to worship God, yet that none can do it acceptably on a new covenant account but believers! and that true believers have the spirit of Christ. if any man have not the spirit of Christ he is none of his. Rom. 8. 9. and that the spirit it of Christ is a spiri● of prayer where ever i● is that we might teach people to be Christians first, and then to pray in this manner, by the spirit of Christ whether this is not more like the gospel, the which is the ministration of the spirit, then to make liturgies, and forms of prayer to keep people in ignorance, and blindness, and so to be without God and Christ in the world, and strangers to the spirit of prayer, but I pass this, I know Mr. Baxter is large about litergies and forms of prayers, I am persuaded be pleads not for himself in the matter, but his is not that I intended therefore to return, I have red; and be●ieve the truth thereof that God hath his people in babylon▪ and ●f so there must be a minestry, or means, to beget them to the faith, for God hath not limited himself on that acco●n●, but worketh in what was he pleaseth, but stil by h●s word, that though I need not the prayers of any of the assemblies that say they are Jews &c. are not yet if there be any of the true seed among them I reject nei●her them n●● their prayers. 6. Query. If you traviled in a bass●●, Armen●ia, greece or any christian country, where their worship is ●o● I●o●● a●y, or s●●stantially wicked no● they force the worshippers to any fals● oaths, subsc●ipt●ons, or other actual sin, would you refuse all c●mmunion with them, and all publi●k worship of God? or w●uld you not rather join with them, then with no Church a● a●. Ans. that is a question hard for me to answer, till I have occasion to travill into those parts of the world, that I may know their manners, but veril, I think, if what you say be true page. 324. those Eastern parts of the world, do so much exceed the western parts in ignorance, and wickednes● I should not touch with them in their worships. I think I cou●d( and with as much ground) join in worship with the Turks as with the profane and ungodly generation of pretended and professed Christains. 7. Query. when you rem●mber on the Lords days, that now all the Christian world are congregated, and are calling upon God, and prasing him in the ●ame of one Christ, and in the profession of one faith, dare you think of being a body separate from them all, and can you think that Christ disowneth them all save you? Ans. no such thoughts enter into me, I believe that in every nation he that f●areth God, and worke●h righteousness i 〈…〉, yet I do believe, that in many nations, are horrid abominations pretended to be offered to God in the name of Christ, that are not accepted, Pro. 28. 9. Es. 50. 16. 17. 8. Query. can you think it agreeable to the gracious nature, and design, and office, of Jesus Christ, to cast of: and condemn so many hundred parts of the Church universal, and accept but of one part only which you join with? judge by his actions and expressions in scripture. Ans. I never yet confined the Church of Christ into so narrow a compass as to those of mine own opinion and practise, though I judge it to be the duty of all Christians to worship, and serve the Lord in his Church, according to his own appointments, yet I believe that those that are built, and do build o● the right foundation, are safe, though you may( and I fear most do) build much and many things that must be burnt and they suffer loss. 9. Query. ●f there were but ten persons of your mind in all the w●rld wou●d you believe that God would save none but those ten? or accept the worship of no more? or that it was lawful to haue Communion with none but those ten? ●f no● how can you think it in a case so near to it. Ans. i● there were but ten persons in the world of my mind, I am not ●ound to believe that God would save all of them, or any of them, for being of my mind, un●ess they were si●cerely godly according to the Gospe●l, nei●her do I be●ieve but that he hath done, and will save many that are not of my mind, if they be sincerely godly according to the gospel, and that in every nation he that f●areth God, and worketh righteo●sness shall be accep●ed, though they be ●ot in all things of my mind, and that God accepte●h of ●●, according to what they have, and not according to what they have not, 2 Cor. 8. 12. as to matter of fellowship is included in my answer to the next Query. 10. Query. can you prove that Christ doth s●pera●e from all the Christian● in the world, that you separate from? or that they hav● no visible Communion with him? or that he taketh them for no Chu●che●? and disowneth the administrations of all the ministers in the world which you d●sown? or that it i● safe to sepera●e where Christ doth not seperat●? and to begin from his house while he there abideth? and to condemn those whom he condemneth no? nor commandeth you to forsake or to condemn. Ans. the substance of this question hath been often repeated in the other questions espeacially in the 3. and 4. yet this I shall further say, 1. That I se●erate from no Christian in the world as such, nor from any Church of Christ as such, but if I separate from any that are Christians indeed, it is not as they are Christians but because they hold their Communion in a fa●se stated Church, both for manner and matter, and itis their sin that they do not separate with me, 2. Tim. 3. 5. Rev 18. 4. whether Christ doth separate from ●uc●? or they have no Communion with him &c. is not material to me, what the Lord may do for his people in their darkness and ignorance is unknown to me, but this I understand, that though God hath set us our duty, and we are bound to the performance of it when known to us, yet himself is at liberty to work how and where he pleaseth, he hath a people in babylon, and doubtless he had a way to beget them there, and is with them, and gives them fellowship, and accepts their sincerity in service, and yet no thank to the false worships, or worshippers, nor no ru●e for me to abide there, because some godly are there, but itis my duty to separate being instructed of the Lord therein, thereby to call them to their duty likewise, the people of God had gotten their seized Houses in babylon and were loathe to come forth, to go to S●on, about the work of the world, they had rather bide in babylon till, and some went out before others, and some must be called hard upon, before they would move, Hag. 1 24. and truly God seems to speak much in the matter at present, the beginnings of separation was contemptible, even to many, if not most of the godly, they had gotten their Seiled Houses in Babylon, loathe to come forth and therefore strongly pleaded for her, but now as Israell out of Egypt they are thrust out all at once; and the true Church will I believe appear, more and more, looking forth as the morning, Cant. 6. 10. very terrible to the false Church, and though she hath lie● am●ng the pots, yet shall she be as the wings of a dove, covered wi●h Silver, and her feathers of yellow Gold. ●s. 68. 13. Mr. Baxter would keep her in the darkness, in babylon, among the pots still, but God hath another work to effect in the world. And as for separating from Churches, and Ministers, that are such, and Christs disowning ●● of them, we are to distinguish in the manner of the Lords owning, and disowning of Churches, 1. in their turning aside from the right rule, to their own invention●, in any administrations, and ordinances in the Church, in that the Lord disowns them, and by his word reproves them and in that if the Lord hath taught me, I must reprove them, and if they repent not, disown them, so far as the Lord disowns them. i. e. in their wrong administrations, &c. I must have fellowship with them in their sin, yet if it appear that god●iness and holiness is the design of such a people and that their miscarriage lieth in the understanding and judgement, want of light, rather then in the will and affections, if I separate, I do not separate from them as no Church of Christ, or no part of his Universal Church, but as a disorderly Church, with whom I cannot have personal local communion without guile, and if this order should not be kept up among the Churches, i.e. e. to with draw, or separate from sinning or erring Church, there would be no way left to de 〈…〉 a sinning Church, in case of obstinacy, or to keep the whole from the de●i●●ments that some might fall into, and so the Churches being not under the care and report of each other, would be in worse condition then the members of the par●icular Churches, who are under the care of the Church, so that I separate from them as dis●rderly, waiting for a reformation, neither do I judge, that God may, or must leave them, in all their Ministerations that are right, till they grow wilful in that which is wro●g●●. And to what Mr. Baxter saith further page. 267. 268. in answer to an objecttion, that the Church of Christ is a little flock, and not to be estimated by number, &c. though he generally wrong and( I suppose) speaketh falsely of the separated people, as if they absolutely separated from all Churches and Saints, unless such as are of their own way, I know none that hold to the head Christ that doth so, and in this mistake he hath spent much of his time in his book, to discover, and to reprove that which is not, but he saith further, that those who believe the Church to be so little, may come to believe the gospel to be but a fable, and that for his part, if he believed that the Church of Christ were no more then all the separates on earth, it would make the work of faith more dificult, for as he is no King, that hath no Kingdom, so and is ne●t to no King, whose Kingdom is next to none, and if you take from him a●l save too or three cottages I mean the separated Churches only, it is but a little adi●ion to your treason, to ta●e the rest, and to crucify Christ afresh, and to writ over him in derision, H●●● title of a King &c. Ans. to this I say as before, he supposeth that which is not, sets up a shadow of his own invention, thereby as he thinks, to strik through the separated people. But do he in good earnest strengthen his faith in Christ so much in the multitude of the professors in the christian world? and do he believe that the honour of Christs Kingdom do so much consist in mu●titude? is it more likely to destroy or hinder faith, when men shall hear of a holy King, that loveth, and commandeth holiness a King whose name and same doth ring in the world for holiness, and his Church and Kingdom for a holy people, when they are made up of the vilest, and his Kingdom to be worse and more unholy then the Kingdom of Mahomet, is not this the way to make the blind world suspect that there is no truth in all the report of the gospel, about this holy King? and was it multitude that prevealed to draw people to the credence of the gospel in the primitive times? when a few mean persons only owned and cleaved to him, surely Mr. Bax●er cannot be so ignorant and unbelieving, as that the profesion of a multitude of profane and ungodly persons, should strengthen his faith in the gospel and Kingdom of Christ neither can the fewness of the true subj●cts of Christ be so dishonourable unto him as is imagined, his fl●ck being a little flock. Query. Which in a way of reason, as well as religion, is likely to be most honourable to Christ our holy King, to have a few holy honourable subjects, that with purpose of heart cleave to him, obey and serve him, or a Mu●ti●ude of rude, prophene, ungodly, and dishonourable subjects such as are a scandal to earthly Kings, what do Mr. Baxter in this, but dishonourably present Christ as the b●sest of Governers by his subjects, and see in the way he thinks to honour him, cast contempt upon him. Ps. 12. 8. The wicked walk on every side, when vilest men are exalted, therefore surely 'tis no treason against our Lord and King, to desire and endeavour to have his Kingdom holy, though but a little one, a little flock, yet a little one shall become a thousand, and a small one a strong the Nation, the Lord will hasten it in his time ●●●. 22. But let us not hasten it faster, and before his time, least we cast reproach upon him, i●stead of honour. But let us consider yet again how large this Kingdom of Mr. Baxters is, and how much it may ●ad to his faith, and to the honour of Christ, for to he●p in the matter, he is now gotten over the two blocks in the way before mentioned, and hath gotten the whole Roman fraternity to make up the number, he saith Pag. 81. that we separate not from Rome, as the U●iversal Church( for that it was no●) nor as part of the Universal Church for so we hold Communion with those that are Chri●●ians still, nor as a true worsh●ping congregation for they consist of many thou●and congregations, which we had never local communion with, and as true worshipping congregations in specie, we still hold communion with them in mind, so far as they are such indeed but in two sences we separate from them, 1. as a papal catholic Church, because in that sense they are no Church of Christ but a pack of Rebells. 2. As a particular congregation in specie, which have ●●xed Gods worship with false Doctrine, and Ido●atrous bread worship, and other unlawful things &c. and thus we disown them only as neighbour Churches, that never were their lawful subjects, but bear our Testimony against their sin, and our forefathers, who were members of their Churches departed to save themselves, from their iniquities, and because they were refused by themselves, unless they would lie and for swear, and be ido●ators, and communicate with them in their sin, nor would they then, nor will they to this day, admit any into their particular Churches, who will not first come into their pretended universal Church, which i● no Church, and worse then none, if this answer seem not plain and full to you, it is because you understand not christian sense and reason. page. 83. 84. here note Mr. Baxter separates from Rome only in too sences. 1. as p●pal and U●iversall 2. as ●●xing Gods worship with false doctrine and idolatry &c. as particular c●ngregations and yet owns them for true worshipping cong●egations in specie, and so we still hold communion with them in mind, so that on this account v●z as particular congregation, even, in the many thousands of them, even all the papal rout Mr. Baxter owns in specie, to be true worshing congregations and to have communion with them in mind and if he hath communion with them in mind, being absent from them, why he should not have fellowship with them personally, and locally, if occasion serve, and they would admit it, according to his principle, I know not, now let the judicious jud●e, how fare Mr. Baxter is from Rome and what a holy Kingdom he hath for the Lord, I suppose there be many of the national, parochial, Ministers at this day, of another mind. But if Mr. Baxter do indeed separate from the particular Romish congregations for false doctrine and Idolatry &c though in his esteem true worshipping congregations why may not we without offence, separate from other particular Congregation, for the same or the like scandals where is an imposibility of Communion on the same terms as minded by him in the substance i. e. without contracting guilt of sin upon ourselves. But let us a little consider his Christian sences and reason, for my part I must confess my ignorance; I am a stranger to it, for the Church of Rome in its compaction to the Pope as head, and as universal to be a pack of Rebels no Church and was then none, the plague of the Church as he saith, in his description of the catholic Church Pag. 121. yet the self same in its distinct Congregations, to be true worshipping Congregations with whom in mind he hath fellowship. And that they are false worshippers Idolaters, and such as with whom there can be no Communion( in this kind of worship) unless we will lie, and forswear, and be Idolatrous &c. and yet to be true worshipping Congregations. it seems strange Christian reason to me, and such an 〈…〉 ministry as I cannot understand, how any persons should be a pack of Rebels to their prince, and yet at the same time a pack of good Subjects how persons should be a pack of thieves, and yet at the same time to be a pack of true men, so to be a pack of Rebels to Christ, no Church, and worse then none, the plague of the Church, in its compaction under the Pope, or as Papal, and as particular congregations, have mixed Gods worship with false doctrine, and Idolatrous bread worship and other unlawful things, and yet in specie, to be true worshipping Congregations, and part of the universal Church I must leave to them that excel, to understand, and with these it is, Mr. Baxter hath fellowship, as be can have with the purest Churches at a distance from them, so that as to himself, he hath equalized the Romish Churches, as to fellowship, with all other Christian Churches, and is indeed in Communion in his mind with the Romish Churches, although he confesseth that our Fore-fathers could not, nor probably may he, have actual fellowship with them, unless they would lie, and forswear and be Idolatrous. And whereas Mr. Baxter, envieth so much at separation as if that were, the great provoking, and damning sin of this generation and as if he were, raised up in the spirit and power of love above all other men, to a muse and affright( with the name of separation from the universal Church) all sincere hearted people to communion and fellowship with Beliah, when I may say( take Churches in the largest sense) as Mr. Baxter doth) that there are scarcely any bearing the name of Christian Churches in the world, but are separates; all the Protestants are separate from the Papists, what ever Mr. Baxter, dreameth and the Papists separate from the Protestants, so far that they hang, and burn one another, the Eastern Churches separate from the Western, the Calvinists, and ●●gonists in France, from the Papist and that from their particular Churches. Without all human power to provoke them to it, or countenance them in it, and on that account, come near, to the rule in their constitution. For the church▪ and Churches of Christ, are, and must be, a separated people nor by human power, but by the word and spirit of Christ their King, however they may be mix▪ d with hypocrites, and reproached by enemies. In a word to end this, whereas Mr. Baxter thinks, some are enemies, and traitors to Christ, ●n making his Church and Kingdom too little( which probably many doth) ●et whether Mr. Baxter can be less then a usurper on Christ, to make his spiritual Church and Kingdom which is not of this World, to be so large, and bad as he hath made it, scarce fit for the great Turk, or Tartar, to rule a Kingdom of enemies and Rebels to Christ, Idolaters, persecutors of the true Church adulterers, Harlots, I heives, Drunkards, Revelors, &c. a Kingdom made up for Christ, that any sober Prince might blushy to have such Subjects, and that which would make him a reproach among the civill Neighbour Nations. And now to conclude, I shall more particularly, and distinctly, propose some few questions to Mr. Baxter about the whole matter. 1. Query. Whether you do s●riously, and in good earnest, think that it is an honour to Christ to have such a Kingdom put upon him, as you have been pleading for i. e. his holy Kingdom his holy Temple or Church? 1 Cor. 3. 17. for the Temple of God is holy which Temple ye a●●; that Kingdom, and Church that is to be so compacted and framed together by the builders, as that it may grow up into an holy ●emple in the Lord, this is the visible Church of Christ, and whether it would not be clear and safe to keep the distinction, and honourable to Christ too? 1. that his ruling, providential Kingdom is over all, Ps. 103. 19. and his spiritual Kingdom, in and over his people, his Church, Rev. 15. 3. and thus the Kingdom of Christ is the largest for Subjects in the first sense, and the best, most holy, and spiritual in the second sense, and so we need, to jumble up world and Church together, on supposition to honour him in multitude of members and largeness of Kingdom when he hath opened a way himself for his honour upon that account. 2. Que●●. whether you do groundedly think, that yourself and those you pled ●or are so far, and free from babylon, as you pretend unto? and whether, the word babylon do only import some one place or people, as is usually understood to be the Church of Rome as Papal? or whether babel do not signify confusion from the confusion of the language? Gen 11. and whether confusion is in members and worships in a Church do not render it to be as babylon? 1. Cor. 14. 33. and whether any of us all, be so far from babylon as could and should be desired? for my part I am persuaded, that the best and most reformed Congregatiens have brought away so much of babylon with them, that there is daily n●ed of purging, and reforming both in doctrine manners, and discipline. Query. 3. Whether you do in good earnest, think, there is no world in the Scripture since, in all that which is called the christian world? world understood as it is expressed, and in this case must be understood as distinct from the Church, 1 John 5. 13. and we know that we are of God, and the whole world lieth in wickedness, whether you th●nk there is no part of the Christian world of men, lieth in wickedness? and so are truly of the world, and whether the Christian Church should not be such as are converted and called out of this world? as, John 15. 19. what a wonderful holy England, holy Rome, holy France, and S●ain, and all the rest of the Nations called Christian, if no world, but all Church, no men of the world which have their portion in this life, Ps. 17. 14. surely if God bring us once to a greater distance from the world to himself we shall be able to see clearer, and to distinguish better between the Church and the world, the Kingdom of Satan and of darkness, and the Kingdom of Light, and the Son of Gods love. Qu●ry 4. Whether you do believe, that the great design of God and Christ in the death of his Son, and the Ministeration of this glad tidings to men, was indeed to call in poor sinners to God effectually that they might be saved? or to he●● them into the Church without grace, and make them Hypocrites, that they might be damned? if not the last, but they fi●●●, whether you can possibly think, you honour Christ, in pleading for such a Church so exceeding across to his gracious gospel design. 2. Whether it be not a matter of highest prejudice to the souls of sinners, to make them a Church, and pled for their right, on that account, and so deceive them, with the name of Christian, and Church thereby laying their Christianity, and Church membership as a block in their way of their conversion, and whether they may not have cause to curse the Authors of this deceit, when it will be to late for help? Ob. we preach conversion to them, and let them know that it is not their external professed Christianity, that will save them but we ind●● a soul conversion to the Lord, therefore if they repent not their damnation will be of themselves. Ans. There is something indeed in what you say, yet this will not reach the case, nor cure the wound, nor keep the Authors of this practise guiltless in this matter. 1. To make members of the universal Church, by baptism without faith or repentance, and so call them Christians, and a Church yet must preach the Doctrine of conversion to them, as to a people without God, contrary to the rule and reason of the new covenant Ministerations who hath ordered the Doctrine of conversion for the world, and of building for the Church. 2. nor can you easily or ●ratio 〈…〉 persuade Christians, Church members, out of their Christianity, that all their baptism and profession is nothing, and that in all you have done for them before▪ was but to make them Hypocrites your work now if any that is effectual, is to unchristian, Christians, and let them know they must be damned unless they begin all a new and look after the right foundation, which how hardly this is ●ike to be accomplished in way of reason, may be easily judged, and is experienced daily even the most profane, we are Christians already say they, and what need any more. And further according to your own principle, wicked and ungodly Ministers may become pastors of such Churches, that are as much strangers to conversion as the people, and need not only to be Un-Ministred, but Un-Christianed. Then where will be the preaching of conversion to such Souls, so that woe is the case of the poor world, thus deluded. 5. Query. Whether you were real in what you propounded in those necessary things, that entitles to Baptism and Church Communion? if so, how you can possibly pled for your infant Baptism where can be no one of these things to entitle them to it? and how you could possibly use your hand and Pen at the rate, and so often us you do, in your Book against a people for practising according to wh●t yourself must confess to be right? and as I remember, you once confess, the sober Anabaptists, to be nearest the rule, in the reception of Members by Baptism. Whether you are not cautious, that there is no rule in the New Covenant for any but professed ● believers to be baptized, and that Infant Sprinkling is not only contrary to the rule but to the reason of the New Covenant? the rule the Lord hath given, and itis his law that believers must be baptized, and that is enough. And this affirmative command carrieth the negative in it, and forbids all except believers, but the reason of this Law we have likewise: in as much as the new Covenant moves not the natural, but the spiritual seed of Abraham, as the old Covenant owned the natural seed, and therefore as that seed were the Church, and 〈…〉 the ordinances of that Covenant, so now the Church of the new Covenant must be the spiritual seed, Gal. 3. 29. R●m. 4 11. and they only are to partake of the ordinances, privileges, and benefits of the new Covenant, though, itis true, they may some of them be Hypocrites, that will be their sin and lose the Church should be all true believers as hath been before mentioned, and Hypocrites must give an account for their being there. 6. Query Whether, 1 Cor 12. 13. with Act. 19. and 1 Cor. 5, 16. rightly understood will not tend much to c●ear this matter, 1 Cor. 12, 13. for by one spirit are we all baptized into one body &c. The Apostle here speaks of the universal Visible Church, for all his Epistles, were to the Visible Church, and that they were by one spirit, baptized into one body, he speaks as it was meet, he should judge of them all, That they were come but over as to believe, so to be baptized, by that one spirit of Christ for he tells the Church Rom, 8. 9. That if any man have not the spirit of Christ he is none of his. So that by that one spirit, it must in Charity be Judged, that all that come into the Church, are wrought to it and brought over to obey the Lord in baptism, and so by one spirit are baptized into one body. Whether we may not safely infer from hence that persons that are strangers to this one spirit are in capaple ordinarily to be otherwise, can rightly be baptized into that one body of Christ! And whether where it's palpably plain, this great ingredient, or efficient working cause is absent, such persons ought not to be baptized again? according to Acts 19. 2. 5. Where the not having so much as heard whether there be any holy spirit, is rendered as the 〈◇〉 of being baptized again. And whether 2 Cor. 5. 16. rightly understood, hath not much in it to clear the matter? henceforth know we no man after the flesh, ye though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more, whether this text do not tend to distinguish between the knowledge of the old and new covenant? the old covenant knew and owned the fleshly seed, and so knew after the flesh, but so we, are in a Church relation, now to know no man, but men in Christ, after the spirit, viz. and this is or should be the visible Church of Christ. Ro▪ 9. 8. and the fleshly seed had fleshly thoughts of Christ i. e. that he should come to save none but the fleshly seed, the old covenant Church, but he is to be known so no more, Acts 11. 1. 2. 3. 18. and 18. 21. 22. But to draw to an end, I do believe the matter you pled for i. e. love, is in dead, as the apostle calls it, the band of perfestion, or the perfect band, had you hit right as to the subjects of our love in a Church relation, you had done worthily but having missed there, you have missed the accomplishment of( as I hope I may say) your good intention for it is impossible to reconcile( in such a day of light) light and darkness, Christ and belial, in such a relation as you p●ead for, I do abundantly close with you, that want of love is very much the occasion of the differences among christians at this day, and that it is the concernment of those that profess to fear the Lord, to love Christians as such though of differing apprehensions to love all men, as men, even enemies sinners, with the love of pitty and compassion, and be ready to do them good, and to do them no harm at all. But as on a Church account, after the rule of the new covenant I shall fully give you my understanding, I according to both the rule and reason of the new covenant, the profession of repentance and faith in the Scripture sense, and after that baptism is the visible orderly way of entering into the visible Church of Christ. 2. That the Scripture speaks of an apostasy, or departing from the faith, 2 ●h. 2. 3. Which I do understand to be, both in faith, and worship, which is generally understood to have been accomplished in the world for some hundreds of years, and that this apostasy to be Universal so that no face of a visible Church according to the new and true rule of the Gospel could appear, but the invisible Church of worshippers of God in Spirit be preserved a long through this apostasy, Rev. 11. 1. 2. And that towards the latter end he calls his people to come forth. Rev. 18. 4. and a little beginning and entrance hath been for some time, by these instruments God hath raised in several generations, but be will work it higher, to the primitive pattern, now in as much as for many years, even since Luther complains of others, the Church hath been in its travail from Babylon, and good men from time to time, have thought themselves to become fully away, when alas they have brought so much of Babylon away with them; that it is a hard matter to know, whether it be Babylon or the true Church, now in as much as this is the true state of the Church at this day, I do judge, the duty and concernment of all sober spirited Christians is, I. not to sit down in the way, and think they are gotten out of Babylon before they are. 2. Not to fall foul, each with other in the way, but to walk in love, to be enquiring of, and helping one another forward in the way. Jer. 50. 56. 3. That in the way out( for we are never come fully out, till we are come to the Primitive pattern, however some think that if they should come to the Primitive Pattern, it would b●ing them to the Primitive poverty, which I think indeed is one great temptation in this matter, but itis much better for the Church to come to the primitive pattern in faith and order, though it brings us to the primitive pove●ty, and suffering in which we should be more like our Lord, and his servants then to keep to the pattern of babylon, and partake of Babilons ease, and dainties) Let each sort of Christians according to their attainments in light, so walk and have their fel●owship in the ordinances of Christ, not judging and censuring others that d●ffer from them, or Un-Churching one another, but to account all whose design is for Christ, according to the Gospel, for the visible Church of Christ, this being done in the spirit of Christ, we might not only go mourning, but singing from babylon to Sion, only take heed and beware, 1. Of running out of one babel into another that will leave you but a Daughter of babylon still. 2. Take heed of sitting down by the way, before you are half way out, and think you have attained, saying as Peteer and John, Mat. 17. 4. It is good for us to be here, let us build tabernacles here. If I am not much mistaken this hath been the common failing of us all. But I shall conclude with Isa. 8. 20. To the Law and to the Testimony, if they speak not according to this rule it is because there is no light in them. FINIS.