THE SUN OUTSHINING THE MOON: OR Righteousness excelling Rottenness: In answer to a lying scandalous Paper; PUBLISHED BY JOHN MOON; ENTITLED, THE TRUE LIGHT Hath made manifest darkness, etc.  
But it is darkness put forth for light, as it will appear by that which followeth;  
And is Published by JOHN PRICE.  
Prov. 30.12. There is a Generation that are pure in their own eyes, and yet are not washed from their filthiness.  
Prov. 12.22. Lying lips are an abomination to the Lord: but they that deal truly are his delight.  
Prov. 12.19. The lips of truth shall be established for ever: but a lying tongue is but for a moment.  
Prov. 14.25. A true witness delivereth souls: but a deceitful witness speaketh lies.  
LONDON, Printed for the Author. 1658.   

  

READER,  
I Had no desire to appear so publicly; neither had I so appeared now, if the wrong and abuse had reflected only upon myself: but lest that the truth (professed by me) should be abused through my being silent, seeing that the good will of our God was to deprive me, and many more, of my Brother Hugh Evans, who was buried before the appearance of John Moons printed Paper: For if he had lived, I should not have so publicly appeared in this Work, he being chief accused and abused by the aforesaid John Moon. And seeing that I am also grossly abused, and my words perverted, I judge it my duty, and know it my liberty to clear myself and others, from the aspersions falsely cast upon us, and vindicate the truth professed by us. I would have the Reader to know, that I have no prejudicial thoughts towards John Moon; though I have worse thoughts of him then I have of many of his Brethren, I would not the least wrong done to his (nor their) Persons; and I would as willingly give them the liberty of their consciences, as I would have the liberty of my own. Drunkards and Swearers can go without being persecuted, neither dragged or haled to Prison, when civil, sober harmless men, under the name of Heretics, are abused and imprisoned, and be judged by vile carnal unjust Judges, who have no Religion nor God, (but their bellies:) but if any should say now, he taketh the part of those whom he himself opposeth: (It is true) I do so, but I do not oppose them (peradventure) as thou dost. It may be thou wouldst have men to be of thy Religion, be it right or wrong, whether they can believe it or not or else thou wilt have them persecuted and imprisoned, and so force them to make Shipwreck of their conscience, or to suffer persecution: And I would use all Lawful means, in love, meekness, and tenderness, to convince them of their errors; and if I could be a means to win them, I would rejoice in the Lord with them; if not, I will pity them, and mourn for them; and not seek to destroy them, as the manner of most of all Nations is, not considering that the ninth hour may be behind, or that they may be called at the eleventh hour: But thou wouldst have them to observe thy time, and not suffer them to stay for God's time; or if they will not observe thy time, thou wouldst have them destroyed, and not suffer them to live until the last hour, to see if peradventure they may enter into the Vineyard and will of God, and be saved.  
But I shall desire thee, and all men, to learn of the Spirit of grace and meekness, rather to pity then to persecute thy poor miserable Brother, who was created and estated with thee in Paradise, who also have fallen from thence with thee, and became Children of wrath: and though by grace thou art recovered to a lively hope of that glory that shall be revealed; O (I say) rather learn to pity, and to long for the recovery of him out of the snares of the Devil, then to hate and persecute him. So I leave thee, and desire to find thee led by the Spirit of moderation and wisdom; and remain a Lover and wellwisher of thy soul and body:  
J. P.  
Also I desire thee to read, and not to judge partially of either side: And likewise thou art desired to observe the difference between their words and Papers, and ours; for I have published several Papers, which they had sent to us; and also those which we had sent to them.  
Dated the ninth day of July, in the year 1657.   

EPISTLE.  
TO all them in whom a sparkle of true grace, and sincere zeal hath once been kindled, and have felt the weight, and seen the odiousness and filth of their sins; And by the light and love of the Father being kindled in the heart, have seen, and judged it but just to deliver up unto death that Murderer, who hath killed the just; and so have put on a Righteous Resolution, and continueth in the Battle, and fighteth under the Banner of God's love: and though peradventure you have been benighted in the pursuit of your Enemy, and were at a stand in a desolate Wilderness; yet your hatred against the Enemy remaining (that is to say, your own sins, fleshly wills and desires) and a longing desire after that peaceable Habitation and life, which is to be attained unto through death: I wish that Christ's exhortation may prevail with you in this confused age, in which there is so many Lo here, and lo there; Be ye as wise as Serpents, and harmless as Doves: wisdom and Innocency are excellent virtues at all times, but especially in these days, wherein there are so many Forms and Professions of Godliness; and Antichrist most subtly hath laid its snare in every one of them; and no sooner he is found out in one shape, but speedily he shifts himself into another shape or Form, and decketh, trimmeth, sitteth, and showeth himself as though he is God: So I desire that you would carefully observe his motions, and refuse his society; and that you may die daily to every thing that dieth, and so be weaned from the Vanities of this present evil World. Chief for your sakes have I published somewhat of that which hath passed between the Baptised Believers in these Countries, and the people known by the name of Quakers. As for the people in general, I shall not say much of, but chief those which I and others in these Countries have had experience of their Doctrine, Lives, and Conversations: they have not been in this Country but about eighteen Months; and to speak the truth, they brought many shifts with them: but before thirteen Months was come about, they were worn threadbare, in so much that their nakedness and shame was seen. So I commend you with all Saints to the meek love of God. I rest, and remain,  
Your Friend, and Lover of all them that in sincerity seeketh and longeth after the fullness of God and goodness, JOHN PRICE.   

THE SUN OUTSHINING THE MOON: OR Righteousness excelling Rottenness: In answer to a lying, scandalous Paper, Published by JOHN MOON; Entitled, The TRUE LIGHT Hath made manifest darkness, etc.  
THere was a meeting in the Parish of Llavur, in Raduorshire, where Hugh Evans was exercising his Gifts, to the edifying and building up of his Brethren in the Faith and fear of the Lord; and in his exercise he said to this effect, That there is a threefold nature in the people of God: The Divine Nature, The Humane Nature, And the Serpentine Nature: The seed of the Serpent under the feet of the seed of the Woman; the seed of the Serpent bruising the heel, but the seed of the Woman bruising the head: then one John David a Quaker, so distinguished from other men, spoke to this effect, or these very words: I deny thy third; there is but two; stop thy mouth; the Plagues and Judgements of God is thy portion: and with many presumptuous words in the name of the Lord, he railed much against us; and so began to teach the people, and held forth that there is but two things, light and darkness; God, and the Devil; the seed of the Woman, and the seed of the Serpent; and many things to that purpose. After him John Moon began his Lesson: but Hugh Evans made some reply to this effect, That if it was so as they said, that there is but two things, light, and darkness; God, and the Devil; the seed of the Woman, and the seed of the Serpent; then what is that which is to be saved, or to be damned? for it is impossible for the seed of the Serpent to be saved, nor for the seed of the Woman to be Eternally damned.  
But John David did give no sound answer; and I believe that all rational men will say, that he could not: Then this question was by us propounded to John Moon, but his answer was no better than the other: Whereupon the said John Moon stared in Hugh Evans his eyes, and asked him many questions (though they themselves cry out against others, for ask of questions) some of them I can yet remember. The first question he asked him, was this: Art thou come to the beginning? He answered: I am come to the beginning and the end, Christ Jesus. Again he asked him: Hast thou eaten of the Tree of Life? He said, He had. Then John Moon said, How comest thou there? Thou knowest what the sword of the Cherubin is: Hugh Evans said, It is the anger of God. Then he asked, What the Soul was? Upon that I desired Hugh Evans not to answer him, knowing them to be but the Cavillers questions. Then John Moon said to the people, This man, who is your Teacher, knoweth not what the soul is. Then Hugh Evans said, Answer not a Fool according to his folly, lest thou be like him; yet answer a Fool according to his folly, lest he be wise in his own conceit: And so Hugh Evans stood up, and read this Scripture, And God breathed into man the breath of life, and man became a living soul; and so gave the people a Description of the soul of man. And after he had done, some that were there desired John Moon to gainsay, if he could, what Hugh Evans had said concerning the soul, but he did not: much confused discourse hath been that day, which cannot be repeated; neither is it worth the repeating.  
At another time there was a meeting of theirs, at a place called Yscwriw; to which meeting Hugh Evans and others went; and he accused them of denying the Resurrection, and desired time and silence to prove it, but could not have it, but much brutish and unreasonable Behaviour: shortly after I sent these ensuing queries to John Moon:  
First, Whether God and man was not two distinct things, after he had created him?  
Secondly, Whether man only did not fall from that peaceable estate, which God had created, and stared him in, and no part of God fell with him, or in him?  
Thirdly, Whether that form creature man, or that body which God created in the beginning, did not become mertal, and must die the natural death?  
Fourthly, Whether that body, or the bodies of all men, shall not at the last day, or at the dissolution of this world, and all Creatures, be raised up out of the Earth, and receive a just Sentence?  
These queries he did take upon him to answer: But I will leave it to the Reader, to judge what manner of answer it is. Their answer, with their queries, are as followeth.  
John Price, I having received thy Paper, wherein thou seekest to put a Cloak on thy errors, which Paper. I am made free to answer for the innocent sake, and not to satisfy thy busy mind.  
First, Whereas thou broughtest the Scripture in Nehene. 7.5, 64. to be a Cloak for thy error and covetousness: but the Scripture doth declare against all errors and covetousness; wherein thou art shut out of the Scriptures, and art a stranger to the life of God, which gave forth the Scriptures, living in thy Ignorance and covetousness, wresting the Scriptures to thy own destruction.  
Answer: It is not for that word Register that I charged thee withal, for the word in its place I own: But for that thou dost follow the way of Balaam, who loved the wages of unrighteousness, but was rebuked for his Iniquity; and so I rebuke thee: and whereas thou hast confusedly written in thy Paper, concerning Justice of the Peace, and naming no man, yet for truth sake I answer.  
All that are true Ministers of God, and Magistrates I own; and all that are just, and do justice, is more acceptable to the Lord then sacrifice; and all that acts for the punishment of the Evil-doers, and the praise of them that do well: For so is the will of God, that with well-doing we may put to silence the Ignorant and the Foolish men: And herein is our Father glorified, and the Enemies of God discovered; and all them that acts not according to that which is just, I deny. An Answer to thy queries.  
First Query: Whether God and man was two distinct things, after he had created him?  
Answer: The Lord God is Eternal, and endures for ever, and he form man of the dust of the Earth, which is Carnal.  
The second Query: Whether man only did not fall from that peaceable estate, which God had created, and stated him in, and no part of God fell with him, or in him?  
Answer: It was man only that broke the Command of God, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned: herein I deny, that that which is of God, should fall into sin, or Iniquity.  
The third Query: Whether that form Creature man, or that body which God Created in the beginning, did not become mortal, and must die the natural death?  
Answer: All flesh shall perish, and man shall return to the dust, from whence he was taken.  
The fourth Query: Whether that body, or the bodies of all men, shall not at the last day, or at the dissolution of this world, and all Creatures, be raised up out of the Earth, and receive a just Sentence?  
Answer: All shall be changed: for the Trumpet shall sound; they that have done good, to the Resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, to the Resurrection of condemnation. Here is thy objections and queries answered, by him whom the world calls John Moons.  
This Paper, which he first makes mention of, I sent to him, I have not the Copy of, else I would have set it down here, but the effect of it was this: John Moon hath charged me with Balaams' sin, and why? but because I was a Register: and he pressed upon me to prove my practice by Scripture, and prove a Register in the Church of God: Then I produced in my Letter that Scripture, Nehem. 7.5, 64. which is effectual to answer what he demanded: and as he is full of confusion in other things; so also in this, in not distinguishing between the Church and Commonwealth: to be an Officer of a just Law, and justly executed, is no sin; neither is there any more error nor covetousness in it, then is in any other calling whatsoever: and wherein he compares me to Balaam, who would by Witchcraft destroy all the people of God; I will not trouble myself about it, but leave such a plain case to the Reader, to judge of the unequality of the comparison.  
Here followeth several queries, sent by John Moon, and one John David, to Hugh Evans, and John Price, which are as followeth.  
Now having answered thy Paper and queries, we have sent these few queries to be answered by Hugh Evans and thee, and all your followers, and so let them be particularly answered, according to plain Scriptures, if any of you can, or else let your mouths be stopped for evermore.  
First query: What is the first principle of pure Religion, and undefiled before God? and whether this pure Religion is to be attained here while men are this side grave, yea, or nay?  
John David, and John Moon, this in brief touching your queries: We answer to your first, That it is repentance from dead works, and that is attainable this side the grave, or the natural death. Be ashamed of your ignorance, in ask such a question, as whether pure Religion is attainable in this life.  
Second query: What that light is which lighteth every man that comes into the world; and whether that light is within in the conscience, yea, or nay?  
Second Answer: Christ is that light, and it shineth in some men's conscience, and not in all; for Esai. saith, that there be some men which have no light in them.  
Third query: Whether that light which is come into the world, which is the condemnation of the world, be sufficient to lead them to Salvation, yea, or nay?  
Third Answer: It is sufficient.  
Fourth query: Whom God spoke to, when he said Let us make man in our own image; and where that Garden of Eden is, where the Lord God put man whom he had form?  
Fourth Answer: God spoke to himself, as he was Father, Son, and Spirit: and as touching the Garden of Eden, where it is, and seeing you would have us to prove by plain Scriptures, we direct you to the first Book of Moses, and the second Chapter; not because we have no more to say of it, but that Ishmael is not worthy of it, or you scoffers.  
Fifth Query: Where is that flesh and blood to be obtained, except a man eateth thereof, he hath no life in him? now if any of you can witness life, declare whether it be a this side grave, yea, or nay?  
Fifth Answer: That flesh and blood is in the believer, and he eateth and drinketh thereof.  
Sixth Query: Whether they that are Baptised into Jesus Christ his death, be not made free from sin, yea, or nay?  
Sixth Answer: They are made free from the condemning Power of sin.  
Seventh Query: Whether there be any true Church, but that Church in God? and whether any in that Church were persecutors, or went for the wages of unrighteousness?  
Show one Example in all the Scriptures if you can, or else repent and be ashamed for the evil of your ways.  
Seventh Answer: There is no true Church out of God, but are by Faith in God; neither doth that Church persecute, nor bring a Justice of Peace with them, to threaten those that comes peaceably to inquire, and to try the truth of its doctrine (as you have done to us) nor do any of them go for the wages of unrighteousness: and we do exhort you to repent of your lying, in accusing us of any such things.  
Eighth Query: Where that voice is to be heard, which gathers into one sheep-fold, and where that sheepsold is? and whether any of them, which follow the one Shepherd, may be plucked out of his hands, yea, or nay?  
Eighth Answer: Where the true Teacher is, there the voice is to be heard: And where the Saints are gathered, there is the Sheepfold; and they that follow Christ, cannot be plucked out of his hands: but if any of them will leave following of him, by harkening unto such seducers as you are, them they may come to ruin.  
Ninth query: Where that City of the living God, and Heavenly Jerusalem is, and the Church of the first born; and where the Spirits of the just men made persect is? and whether this may be known, and witnessed this side the grave, yea, or nay.  
Ninth Answer: That City is where the presence of God in peace is: And we shall more fully possess it, when mortality shall be swallowed up of life.  
Tenth query: Where that bottomless Pit is, where all them that doth wickedly, and forget God, shall be thrown into, if any of you can declare?  
JOHN DAVIES. JOHN MOON.  
Tenth Answer: Where the presence of God is not in peace, there the bottomless Pit is.  
If you are not satisfied with this answer, do you appoint the time and place; and send us word, & we will give you the meeting, and will reason with you, provided that you will be civil.  
Hugh Evans. John Price.  
These foregoing answers were sent unto John Davies, and John Moon, from Hugh Evans and myself, speedily after the receiving of theirs; and seeing that John Moon hath put forth a Book; why did he not put forth all that had passed in writing between us? but in stead of that, he gathered a parcel of his own forged lies against us, as I shall make hereafter manifest.  
Here followeth another scandalous Paper, which was sent to us from John Moon, and John Davies; which is as followeth.  
A reply unto the answer of Hugh Evans, one of the blind Priests in Radnorshire in Wales, which he hath made unto certain queries, which was given unto him and John Price, one of his followers, by us who are known to the world by the names of John Moon, and John Davies: wherein their blindness and Ignorance is made manifest.  
Answer: Whereas thou sayest that repentance from dead works is the first principle of pure Religion: herein is thy blindness and Ignorance made manifest, unto all them which will not be wilfully blind; and thou Hugh Evans art found in the steps of the false Prophets, which knowest not the first principle of pure Religion: For we say that the first principle of pure Religion was before transgression was, and transgression was before repentance: And again thou sayest that the light shineth but in some men: herein thou art found a liar, and wrestest the Scriptures, who deniest the Testimony of john, who was a true Minister of the Lord, who said, It lighteth every man; and thou sayest some men, and not all: And whereas thou sayest there is no true Church out of God, but are by Faith in God; neither doth that Church persecute: This is truth, and this we own to be ours; and we find thee to be in the same Generation, who said, they were of the seed of Abraham, and that God was their Father; and Christ Jesus said, Ye are your Father the Devil, who was a liar from the beginning: And there are all them, who knows not the first principle of pure Religion, strangers to the Covenant of grace and truth; and this Covenant we witness to be our light and life; and by this light we see thee, and all the false Prophets, to be out of the light, walking in the dark world: and here thy fellowship is with them, who goeth for the wages of unrighteousness, as thy Brother and Companion John Price, who receives monies when people are married, and when Children are born: And now let that of God in all consciences judge, whether this be in the Church which is in God, or in the world, where covetousness is? And whether you be the Deceivers and Seducers, who practice and uphold these things, or us, who are sent of the Lord to speak against these evil practices? And herein we exhort you to that of God in your conscience, which witness for us against all these evil practice.  
JOHN MOON. JOHN DAVIES.  
READER, Before I set down the answer to this foregoing reply (as they call it) which Hugh Evans and I have sent to John Moon and John David; I shall give you a Relation of what Hugh Evans was.  
Seeing that john Moon hath the face as to give Hugh Evans the Title of a blind Priest, therefore Ishall inform you of what Hugh Evans was; He in his youthful time was bound Apprentice in the City of Worcester, to a Clothier; and there he learned the Trade, and wrought there many years: Then in the time of the Wars he went from Worcester to Coventry, Worcester being then a Garrison for the King, and there joined himself to the Church, and wrought there for certain years; and being zealous in the Gospel, and his love much kindled towards God and man, and hearing that his native Country was destitute of that means of Salvation (that is to say) the Preaching of the word, and the Ministration of the Ordinance of Jesus Christ, he was much moved with love to the truth, and to his native Country: yet not judging himself fully furnished or fitted for that work and Ministry, he by the consent of the Church went to a faithful Servant of the Lord, jeremiah Ives, and informed him, and the society there with him, of the necessity of the Preaching of the Word in Wales; then were they sent, and came to Wales, and performed the work which they were sent to do. Hugh Evans having no other mind but to return, than the Brethren besought him to abide with them, the which he accordingly did for the space often years, and upwards, until the Lord saw good to deprive them of him; in which time his Friends can give a large Testimony of his Zeal, and labour in the Gospel; yet this lying man john Moon hath the face as to say that he was a blind Priest in Wales.  
Here followeth another Paper of john Moon, which is like the rest, and my reply to it: but you shall find more by a Friend of mine, who hath been accused for the same things by the forenamed john Moon.  
I went from David William unto Hugh Evans and John Price, to give the said Hugh a Paper: The said Hugh and john fell a discoursing with me, in which discourse the said john Price said that the Devil was Eternal: And he asked me whether I would deny it? And I said, I deny that the Devil is Eternal, and bade him prove it by Scripture: but he did not; neither would he acknowledge that he told a lie, but goeth on in sin, beguiling unstable people; and herein thou john Price art found one of them who said that God was their Father, but they were of their Father the Devil; and thou callest the Devil Eternal; and herein I see thee forsaking the right way, & art gone astray, following the lust of the flesh, living out of the fear of God, speaking high swelling words of vanity, but is found out among the Dogs, and Sorcerers, and unbelievers, and they who loves to make a lie, and before the everlasting fire of the Lord is kindled for the Devil and his Angels. And herein I john Moon do bear witness, that the Lord God of Heaven and Earth is Eternal, and what ever is Eternal, is one with the Lord God, and endures for ever: And herein I utterly deny that the Devil is one with God, whom thou sayest is Eternal; and so let that of God in all consciences judge, whether God and the Devil be both one; for he that is Eternal is one with God; and this is he who is our Salvation for evermore: but he, who calls the Devil Eternal, knows not Salvation, for there is no Salvation to be found in him, but woe and misery; which is the portion of unbelievers: and herein we bear witness to the truth, and against that which is untruth.  
JOHN MOON.  
Here followeth my answer to John Moons foregoing Paper.  
A word to thee john Moon, in answer to thy scandalous Paper, which I have received from thee upon the 21th day of the first month, in the year 1656. in which I find more of thy vainjangling and false accusing, as thy manner is, seeking to make me and all Saints odious: But blessed are ye when men revile you, and speak all manner of evil of you wrongfully, as thou and thy fellows do unto me, and others who walk in the fear of the Lord, and do continue by his goodness in his grace, to which he hath called and chosen us, and established our souls and spirits therein; yet you (that is to say) john Moon, and john Davies, do call us Dogs, the seed of the Serpent, and Sons of the Devil, and Children of darkness; and presumptuously in the name of the Lord excommunicate us (if your cursing could) from the love and grace of our God, in pronouncing all the wrath and plagues of the Eternal God, to fall upon us, and saying to your own hurt, that you are sent of God so to do. I shall not bring against thee any railing accusations, but the Lord rebuke thee: and touching what hath been said by me, concerning the immortality of the Devil, It was to this effect: john Moon said, that whosoever is not Eternal, is external, and that God only is Eternal: I said that the Devil is not external, and therefore Eternal, as it did follow from thy own words: And I did then explain my meaning thus; I do not say he is a Devil from Eternity, but through or by his forsaking his first estate and habitation, he became a Devil; and I asked thee, whether thou wouldst deny, that the Devil is Eternal without end; for it did follow from thy words before, that he hath an end, in saying, that whatsoever is not Eternal, is external, and that God only is Eternal: for that which is external will have an end; so that one of those two things will unavoidably follow, that either the Devil is mortal, and will have an end, as all external things will have an end; or else he is one with God; which I deny, that the Devil is one with God. See now the snare which thou hast laid for me, thyself art fallen therein; and whereas thou sayest, that I would neither prove by Scripture the Devil to be Eternal, nor acknowledge, that I had told a lie: I refused to prove him to be a Devil from Eternity, as thou wouldst have me; the which I neither did speak nor mean: but I offered to prove him to be endless; I mean by the word Eternal, a thing which endureth for ever, as Angels and souls of men, and not always that Eternal, invisible, unchangeable, the only wise God, who comprehendeth all things, and nothing can comprehend him: and to say, that any thing else is so, is blasphemy: nothing is unchangeable but God, nothing only wise but the Eternal God; but Angels and the souls of men do change their estates and conditions, yet that doth not dissolve them: Angels became Devils, and men became sinners: The soul that sinneth shall die; and he hath made his soul a Sacrifice for sin: there is a natural death, and there is a Spiritual death; a dying life, and a living death: and as thou sayest, that the Devil shall be cast into the wrath of God, that is true; but that doth not prove him to be external, or to have an end; that doth prove a change of condition, and not a dissolution, or to have an end. Dost thou know from whence, or what is the root from whence the Angels and souls of men came? Thou sayest that thou art come to the beginning: if it had been true, thou should dost have seen the end also, and that between.  
And concerning that which thou callest a reply unto an answer of Hugh Evans and myself, in which thou sayest that the first principle of pure Religion was before transgression; Was not this thy query? What is the first principle of pure Religion? And I say, that before transgression there was no need of Faith nor Religion: but if it had been propounded, What is the first pure principle? we should have returned you another answer; but as the case stands now with man, being a sinner, we say with the Apostle, Heb. 6.1. that it is Repentance.  
And whereas you say that we deny the Testimony of john, you do say amiss: but we say with the Prophet Isai. 8.20. That if men speak not according to the word, it is because there is no light in them.  
JOHN PRICE.  
Now I am come briefly to answer to that which john Moon chargeth Hugh Evans and I with, in his Book, entitled, The true light hath made manifest darkness.  
john Moon gins his Book with a glorious Title, The true light hath made manifest darkness: But before he went any further, his Pen went righter than his confused mind; for said he, or Zion builded up, before he said that Babylon was thrown down: And true it is, that such a Zion may be is builded up amongst them, wherein a Babylon is yet in them to be thrown down; for if ever there hath been confusion amongst any people, it is amongst them: but know this, that as Babylon is thrown down, so is Zion builded up; and not Zion first builded up, and then Babylon thrown down. He goeth on, and saith, With a true answer to what the Baptists Teachers objected against him, (as he calls them) but it is no answer to any one particular, that they objected against, (that I know of) but to his own forged or conceited lies, so goeth on, and towards the latter end of Page the first, he falls to Prayer; and well he may record it (for I think) it is a work he doth but seldom.  
In his 2d Page he gins to charge Hugh Evans with saying that the true light shineth but in some, & not in all, & backs it with a lie, in saying that he could not prove it: but he omitted to speak the whole; for when Hugh Evans and I did reason with him about the true light, we did not use to answer hastily, nor unadvisedly, but did inquire to this effect: There is the light of the Sun, which is a true light in its Element; also the Law of nature is a true light, Rom. 2.14. For whatsoever maketh manifest is light, and that Law or light which is in man's nature, doth make manifest sin, therefore a true light; but it is not that light which was spoken of in john 1. which is Christ; that he denieth to be in every man: He and I often denied somewhat to this effect, that that true light shineth or liveth not in every man, as it doth appear by our answer to their queries. For further proof of this, that this was our negative, or denial; I direct you to their second query, and our answer to it, which was propounded and answered about thirteen months before the appearance of john Moons printed Paper, entitled, The true light hath made manifest darkness. He further saith, that Hugh Evans was demanded to prove that this true light did not shine in every man, but could not; whereas Hugh Evans produced this Scripture, to make good his denial, Isai. 8.20. To the Law and to the Testimony: And if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them: from this Scripture, Hugh Evans and others reasoned to this effect: if all men do speak according to the word and Testimony of God, than the true light shineth or liveth in all men: but all men speaketh not according to the word and Testimony of God; therefore some men have not the true light shining, or living in them.  
He saith further in his second Page, Now see (said he) how contrary to the Scripture he speaketh, that would deny the Testimony of john: but I say, that that man that would make john a false witness, may well be ranked with john Moon; but Hugh Evans did own it, and daily did bear witness with john of the same truth; and because that there is something spoken of this, in the answer to his queries, I shall not speak any more of it here; neither do I intent to answer to all his confused Paper, no, that is not my intention: but to make a short reply to that, wherein he doth particularly and falsely accuse, not only me, but Hugh Ev●ns also.  
In his 3. Pag. he saith, That Hugh Evans said that Christ & his Spirit is distinct: but he diminished from his words, for Hugh Evans said, that Christ & his Spirit is distinct in their offices & operations. Now I would desire every honest mind to consider the baseness of this man, that would cunningly and purposely leave out half the man's words, and put the other half out in Print; for these were the words that Hugh E. vans said, That Christ and his Spirit are distinct in their Offices and operations: Then John Moon accused him of blasphemy, in saying that Christ and his Spirit is distinct: Then Hugh said, Why dost thou divide my words? said John Moon, I will publish thy blasphemy: Then Hugh Evans said, I charge thee to publish my whole saying. Now I would have every sincere heart to judge, whether this man is not left here without a cover to hid his nakedness and shame. Was it not a shameful thing for him to accuse the man of blasphemy, and yet he himself afraid to publish the whole pretended blasphemy? or doth it not argue that his malicious mind would cast a false aspersion upon Hugh Evans, and upon that which he professed, which I believe he aimed amost at?  
Again, consider whether this man hath not made shipwreck of a good conscience (if ever he had any) that would knowingly and purposedly misrepresent a man to all people, under the title of a Blasphemer; & yet would not publish his whole saying, which he did over & over repeat. I do not speak this because that the saying is so gross in the terms, as John Moon hath put it out; but to show the dishonesty of this perfect man: This I say to thee John Moon, that either thou dost not understand the sense of the word distinct, or else thou art very willing to make uprears and quarrels, where there is no cause: but I do believe both of thee, therefore I shall show thee, how Christ & his Spirit is not distinct: Secondly, How he is distinct or distinguished. The word distinct doth not always mean two material things standing at a distance the one from the other, as it is like thou dost ignorantly suppose: there is distance in places, in times, and in persons, but neither of these distinctions is to be made between Christ & his Spirit: there is also distinctions in natures, qualities, and properties; yet I do not say, that Christ and his Spirit is so to be distinguished: The Father, Son, and Spirit is distinguished, yet not divided (though it is like that thou dost think, that whatsoever is distinguished, is divided. There are three that bear witness in Heaven, the Father, Son and the Spirit, and these three are one, yet distinguished three; and so it may be said of Christ and his Spirit: Very much may be said of Christ being distinct in his Office, yet not separated nor divided from his Spirit: Christ said (as he was the Son of man) I have finished the work which thou hast given me to do: but it cannot be said that the Spirit of Christ hath finished his work until all be converted, that ever shall be converted, and all the Saints glorified; but the work of Christ in suffering for sin in the flesh, is finished, yet Christ and his Spirit is not divided, but distinguished. It is like that John Moon thought, by leaving out part of the words which Hugh Evans had said, that it would appear more like to be blasphemy: It appears also that John Moon did know that it was no blasphemy, as Hugh Evans had spoken it; or at least that he would not be believed by others, if he did write the whole saying: Take the wisest man's speech that ever was, and let me leave out what part I will of it; I know that I shall either make it blasphemy, or nonsense: as for instance, Psalm 14.1. which saith, The Fool saith in his heart, There is no God: leave out, The Fool saith in his heart, and then you may say, that the Scripture saith, There is no God. John Moons affirmative is true, but his negative is false; it is true that Christ and his Spirit is one; but to say, there is no distinction in their Offices, operations, and workings, is false, as may be further proved by many instances, but that the thing is so plain, that I desire not to trouble the Reader any further: But know this, that Christ and his Spirit is one, in reference to time, place, and person, and an harmony of an agreement between them in their Offices, operations, and workings all in, and fulfilling of the will of the one only wise God; I say further, that the only wise pure Father, Son, Spirit, and Saints are one, and yet a thousand distinctions, I believe, may be observed, touching the Father, Son, Spirit, and Saints: and without distinctions, he (nor no man else) can speak much of them, & not blaspheme. I say, saith John Moon, that they are one, and not distinct: Then I say, if there be no distinctions, why doth he call Christ and his Spirit they, which doth signify pluralities? he nor no man else can speak of the Father, Son, and Spirit, and not make distinctions: for in the words themselves lieth distinctions: saith the Apostle, Joh. 17.21, 22. where he speaketh of the Father, Son, and Spirit, and these three are one; these, and thine, and mine, them, and us; all these words doth signify distinctions, yet not divisions; he goeth on to prove that Christ and his Spirit are one, and so fights with his own shadow; for nothing else hath he to fight with, for all will say, that Christ and his Spirit is one; but if any would deny it, he goeth very weakly to prove it, for he goeth about to prove that which all England doth acknowledge in words, and not make good any thing against what is affirmed, that Christ and his Spirit is distinguished. And this is the effect of his reasoning: because John and Paul doth witness union between Christ and his Spirit, therefore no distinction, as he saith: after he cited Rom 8.20. and Joh. 17.21. Now see where is the distinction (saith he) than he writes down, John 17.21, 22. Then said he, Them that have an eye to see withal, let them see the confusion which the Baptists declare, whereas it is his own confusion, foaming out his own shame, and falsely accusing those whom he calls the Baptists, in saying that they say, That Christ and his Spirit is distinct the one from the other: but thou hast grafted on this lie, since thou thyself didst repeat that part of the words which Hugh Evans had said; for neither did Hugh Evans say, nor thyself till now, that they were one from the other. Is this thy honesty, first to diminish from the man's words, and instead of them add thine own? Hugh Evans said, That Christ and his Spirit is distinct in offices, operations, and workings; and in stead of the words, operations, offices, and workings, thou addest one from the other; see how thou hast handled, altered, and perverted the man's words: so with a parcel of the old Lesson, in which we are judged and condemned, he goeth on, speaking of the true Worshippers, and of the false, applying the true to themselves, and the false to the Baptists: so leaving, He begins with another lie.  
In the latter end of his fourth Page he accuseth me of saying, That there is another way besides light and darkness: the which words never proceeded out of my mouth, as many can witness who were there present: But this is the root of the matter; John Moon and his Brethren did use to hold forth that there is but two things, viz. light and darkness; God and the Devil; the seed of the Woman, and the seed of the Serpent: Then I did inquire what that is that is called to repent and believe; for the seed of the Woman cannot Eternally be damned, and the seed of the Serpent cannot be saved: Therefore there is something else that is in danger of being damned, which by grace may be Eternally saved: But at that time which he saith that I did contradict him in his Teaching, it is not so; but I accused him of being a false Prophet upon that which had passed between us at other times, more than any thing that he had spoken then; for when I came into the meetingplace, one of the Quakers, whose name is Hugh Lloyd, and others, whom he calls the Baptists, were disputing; so that I began to speak to Hugh Lloyd: Whereupon John Moon replied, and said unto me, That I was a Blasphemer, and the like terms, which his mouth is full of: so that the discourse began about the threeness. When he did put me to prove him to be a false Prophet, the first thing that I did instance then was this; Thou sayest that there is but two things, that is, God and the Devil: Then he puts me to prove the third: I said, That it was man: then he said something to this effect; That man was one with God, and became one with the Devil; I replied, that they were three distinct things in nature or essence: but that I should say, That they are one from the other, is as true, as that Hugh Evans should say, That Christ and his Spirit were one from the other. I would have the Reader know, that we could not then have any orderly reasoning with these men, therefore there cannot be as good account given of it, as it might, if they would observe order; and yet they will cry out against confusion as much as any people.  
And as he diminished from Hugh Evans his words, so he addeth to my words: for I said not One from another; neither did I say three ways, but things: So he pressed upon me to prove by Scriptures, them to be three distinct things. Then I produced the Scriptures, which saith, In the beginning God created the Heavens and the Earth: Then, In the beginning was God, before there was man; therein they were distinct, or distinguished the one before the other; the one being Eternal before all times; the other having a beginning in time. Thirdly, I produced the third Chapter of Genesis, in the beginning of the Chapter, which showeth the Devils coming to tempt man: Then I asked, Which of the three will you deny? Then one of their Teachers, named Hugh Lloyd, said; We deny man. I would have the Reader to understand, that there was so much disorder and confusion, that it was in vain for me to proceed orderly, to distinguish their natures, properties, and qualities; for they were more like Oyster-women scolding, then moderate men reasoning or discoursing; for many were speaking at once, as their manner is: and seldom had I any better terms than Serpent, or Dog, thou wouldst by't if thou couldst; the Judgement and wrath of God is thy Portion, with many more words of the like nature as these are: I do not say, That I do repeat all that hath passed between us that day, neither can I; but this I can say, that I do not leave any thing unrepeated, which doth destroy the sense of that which is repeated, (that I know of.)  
The pure holy wise Creator created all things, and form man in his own image: but it is no less than blasphemy to say, That God is form or made, therefore they are distinct, or we must distinguish between the Creator and the Creature. Again, if there was no distinction to be made between God and man, What need was there of Laws and Precepts to bind man upon penalty of death (if broken?) and though the Text saith, God created man in his own image, it doth not follow, that therefore no distinction is to be observed between the Creator and the Creature: and further, they are distinguished by their names, for if there were no distinctions, wherefore have they two names; Also they differ in nature: The nature of God was not, nor is not subject to change nor alter: But the nature of man was, and is subject to alter. Thus they were distinguished to be before man fell. Now after the fall of man, and after he had harkened to the Devil, and became partaker of his nature; yet he became not presently a Devil, for as man bore the image of God before the fall, yet man was not very God before the fall; neither is he very Devil after the fall: Therefore it admitteth of many distinctions between God and man before the fall, and also many distinctions between man and the Devil after the fall: for if there be no distinctions between God and man before the fall; then there was nothing to fall, unless some part of God should fall; which is no less than blasphemy to say that God nor any part of him should fall: For he is the holy, wise, individual and unchangeable God. Again, if man after the fall was become a very Devil, than there is nothing to be restored to the image of God, but that which is or was a very Devil; but there is something which shall be restored, which is not, nor was not wholly a Devil; for it is written, He took not upon him the nature of Angels, but the seed of Abraham. I had many times told this unconscionable lying man these, or the like words, That there was but two ways, or light and darkness: And man was the third thing, which doth walk in one of the two ways: But this I always did, and do deny still, that there is no union between men and the Devil; but that which is by participating of his nature, and not that they are essentially one.  
And now in his fifth Page, where he comes to give his judgement concerning it; I find no difference between that which I said, and that which he now saith in his Paper, but only this: I said, that man walked in one of these two ways; and he saith, And man is in the one way. I leave the Reader to judge, whether he speaks sense, or nonsense, considering his following words. So he concludes that particular with these words, Let the wise in heart judge where the third way is; as though his Opposer had said, that there were three ways. And in the latter part of his fifth Page he saith, That I should say, that Faith is not the gift of God; a thing that I cannot remember that I had any discourse with him about: But whether I have said so or no; I tell you what I should say, if I should speak my judgement concerning it: I say, That believing, or giving credit to the word of God, is an Act of the Creature, performed by the Power and ability given him of God, as it is written, With the heart man believeth to Righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made to Salvation, Rom. 20.20. I marvel how the Quakers and others are so besotted, that they do not see that believing or Faith in that sense is a duty required of man: upon the neglect of it, he is threatened; and upon the performance of it, he is commended, according to Matth. 16.16. He that believeth shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. John Moon saith, That the Faith whereby a man is saved from his sins, is the gift of God: And I say, If man be not saved from the punishment due for sin, that the cause is not in God, for not giving; but in man for not believing. He saith, That I spoke contrary to the Scriptures, Eph. 2.8. By grace ye are saved (through Faith) not of yourselves; it is the gift of God.  
I deny not that Scripture, Eph. 2.8. but own it; and also own Salvation to be the gift of God, which the Apostle in that place doth affirm to be the gift of God, and excludes all manner of works from having any part or share in the work of Salvation. So having no desire to be tedious to the Reader, and considering that other men's Pens have passed upon this subject, which I esteem far before my own.  
In Page the seventh, John Moon faith, That one Rees Davies, and another, should say, That in the Devil there is as much of God as makes him tremble: But Rees Davies saith, That he said not so; but these are the words which Rees Davies said, That there is so much fear in the Devil, as makes him tremble; as for the other, I own not his words, nor himself neither.  
In Page the eighth, John Moon quarrelleth with another, whose name is John Prosser, and accuseth him of saying, That Ribbon and Lace doth adorn the Gospel; but the man saith with many witnesses, That it is a notorious lie, which John Moon saith of him; and I believe that there is but few, if there be any, that will believe that any reasonable man will say, that Ribbon and Lace doth adorn the Gospel.  
In Page the ninth, John Moon saith, That one Evan Oliver should say, That God and his grace is not both one: whether he said so, or no, I do not know; for he is and hath been in Scotland ever since; but I believe that he might distinguish between God and his grace, and yet hold Union also.  
And as for our Friend Vavasor Powel, I have been informed, that he doth intent to answer for himself; and judging him to be abler and sitter than I myself am, I shall not say any thing of it, neither can I well, by reason that I heard not the discourse, nor have not any account of it, But what John Moon saith of it in his Papers, which are not to be given credit unto.  
And as for John Moon his Queries in the close of his Book, I leave them to be answered by those to whom they were propounded; for the life of sanctified and Baptised Believers is hid in God. Col. 3.3. Therefore they live not in observation: Yet I say, That God's people do, and ought observe things: See Deut. 1●. 28. Observe and hear all these words, which I command thee. Psalm 105.45. That they might observe his Statutes, and keep his Laws. Matth. 28.20. Teaching them to observe all things, whatsoever I commanded you.  
So I shall say no more at present in reply to John Moons Paper: But desire the Reader carefully to peruse that which followeth, and is written and subscribed by my beloved Friend William Bound: And I do earnestly desire, that all men, especially they that have had any longing desire after God and goodness, that they stand still, and then doubtless they shall see the Salvation of God: for whiles man is working, labouring, and moving in his own will, He is a stranger to the Salvation of God: to which Salvation and gra●e I commend all those that waiteth for, and longeth after it, and rest,  
Their true Friend, JOHN PRICE.   

HERE Followeth under the same Title, A BRIEF DISCOVERY Of the Erroneous Tenets of those who are distinguished from other men by the name OF QUAKERS, NAMELY JOHN MOON, & ALEXANDER PARKER, And others, who own them and their say: wherein is manifested the right consequences that unavoidably followeth their own words, from their own mouths, and under their own hands, at several times, in several meetings: With a few words in brief, unto several sorts of people, in several conditions.  
BY ME, Who am the unablest amongst many, yet a Lover of Peace and Truth, WILLIAM BOUND.  
Prov. 18.17. He that is first in his own cause, seemeth just: but his Neighbour cometh and searcheth him.  
Prov. 17.22. Though thou shouldest bray a Fool in a mortar amongst Wheat, with a ; yet will not his Foolishness departed from him.  
LONDON, Printed for the Author. 1658.   

A RELATION Of a short Discourse, at a place called the Scwryw, upon the eighteenth day of the Month called February.  
I Hearing that the people which by some are called Quakers, were to meet there, and that one Alexander Parker was to Preach there that day; I knowing my liberty, that I might try all thing, & hold fast that which is good,  
I went there, and hearing the said Alexander speaking very often unto the people of a pure principle of God in every man, which pure principle is in Egypt, in bondage and in slavery in man, and must be redeemed.  
And when he had done speaking, I was moved to speak these words following.  
Friend, Thou hast spoken much unto the people, concerning a pure principle of God in every man, which pure principle is in slavery, and in bondage, and must be redeemed.  
I would know of thee, whether thou dost own any part in man, which is to be redeemed, besides this pure principle of God.  
Then the said Alexander drew near unto me, and asked me some other question; but did not answer to the question which I had propounded.  
Whereupon I told him, that I would not answer him in any thing, until he had answered to the question which I had propounded.  
And then the people many of them did rage and rail against me with open mouth, carping at they know not what, like Dogs barking at the Moon.  
Whereupon the said Alexander fathered that uproar upon me; whereas there had not proceeded out of my mouth (at that time) any words but these above written; and then I stated the question again as followeth.  
Question: Whether thou dost own a humane soul in man, which is to be redeemed, besides that pure principle of God?  
He Answered: The Soul is pure.  
I replied, that Jesus Christ came not to redeem a pure principle of God, but an impure soul.  
Then said he, Can the soul be defiled? Can the soul be defiled?  
I said, The Soul can be defiled; and the Soul is defiled through the fall in the first Adam.  
He said, The soul is under sin and slavery, but it is not defiled with sin.  
Then there was one that stood there for their side, stirred up with a very wrathful distempered Spirit, and said unto the said Alexander, Brother, I charge thee before God and these men, that thou shalt not speak with this man: And when he had thus spoken three times, than the said Alexander said, That he would not speak with me: and so withdrew from me.  
Whereupon I spoke unto the people, what he had said concerning men's souls, that they could not be defiled with sin; to the end that all those that see, and are not stark blind, might have a sight of his erroneous Judgement.  
Then the said Alexander drew near me again, lest his Errors should be uncloaked, and his Doctrine laid naked before the people, saying, Do not wrest my words: I say, The soul is pure.  
I denied that the soul is pure, to which end Christ came in the Flesh, for to purify impure souls: I did bid him prove his affirmative.  
Whereupon one John Moon, it seems of the same judgement, and Alexander, did bid me prove, that the soul is not pure.  
I said, I was not to prove a negative, and so I did demand of them to prove that the soul is pure.  
Then the said Alexander urged that Scripture in Gen. 2.7. God breathed into [man] the breath of life, and man became a living Soul.  
I said, that doth not prove what the Soul is, but what the soul was.  
Here it appeareth, that lest he should receive a total rout, or a deadly wound with his own staff, and his false Tenet be stripped bare; he said, that he spoke of his own Soul.  
Now a word unto the said Alexander Parker, and John Moon, who say, You speak from the mouth of the Lord, and by that infallible Spirit, as the holy men of God did, and are fully perfect. How is it that the said Alexander hath said, and the said John Moon seeming to maintain what he had said? and if he spoke of his own Soul, to be under sin and slavery, how is it that he is also perfect?  
Or is it not rather clear, according to his general Doctrine that day, and the question propounded, that he spoke of every man's Soul? but lest he should be trapped in his own snare, he said, He spoke of his own Soul.  
Here I charge thee with a lie (either of you) show me if you can, which way you can escape it, let me see which way you can dawb up this tottering Wall with your untempered Mortar, or else be ashamed of your ignorance, and confess your Error, and repent.  
Now to all you that are impartial, and , that can weigh the truth in the Balance of Justice do I appeal,  
First, Whether that Proposition I propounded, was a thing needful, or material that day?  
Secondly, Whether the propounding of that question only was a cause of an uproar?  
Thirdly, Whether it was a difficult thing for me to prove from Scripture that the Soul was defiled with sin?  
Fourthly, Whether that Scripture, Gen. 2.7. doth prove his Soul, or any other man's Soul, to be pure since our fall in the first Adam?  
Fifthly, Whether this lying and equivocating aforesaid, be from the mouth of the Lord, and by the infallible Spirit? Or whether is it by the Spirit of Error, and from the mouth of Antichrist, who is the Lord of lies?  
By one that is embouldened to stand up in the truth's behalf, to the face of truths Opposers.  
WILLIAM BOUND.  
A Copy of this forementioned Discourse was sent unto John Moon, and Alexander Parker: After many days I received this reply, which followeth.  
A Paper I received, subscribed by one William Bound, wherein I find several lies, and false accusations, and lying aspersions, cast upon the Messengers of the Lord, judging of truth, with his dark mind, as that Generation of Professors ever did, who had a form of Godliness, but denied the light and Power, as William Bound hath gotten the good words, painted himself with a covering, but not with the Spirit of the Lord: woe is his Portion for, and to all who make a show of Goodness, but their lives and conversations contrary; a blind Zeal, but not according to truth; and out of that blind zeal doth judge of the things of God, judges truth to be Error, and puts light for darkness, and darkness for light, as thou William Bound and all blind Professors ever did, persecute and hate them who were Professors, and did walk in the life and Power of truth: and to thee William Bound and all people that were present that day at David William's house, was the word of the Lord declared a mongst you, and that of God in all your consciences shall for ever bear Testimony for the Lord and his word, and it shall stand for ever, and shall not go out in vain, and shall be thy condemnation for ever, and all that slight it, and his Messengers; and we shall be a good Savour unto God, both in them that believe, and in them that perish: and what was spoken there of the mystery of Godliness, which is hid from all vulturous eyes, and venomous Beasts, shall stand for ever: and concerning redemption, and the groans and cries of the Innocent that groaneth for deliverance, as Israel groaned under Pharaoh; this shalt thou Bound, and all people one day confess to be truth; and I appeal to all of that in thy conscience, and all people's consciences, when any evil of sin is committed, upon the sense and feeling of it, many times sighs and groans will be heard, and the groans and cries are entered into the ears of the Lord of Sabbath; and he is now risen in his Majesty and dreadful Power, for the redemption of his own people, and will burn up the chaff, the wicked and carnal Professors, and give them their Portion in the lake of endless misery; and this shalt thou witness, when the Book of conscience is opened, and the liar hath his Portion: And whereas thou Bound saith, That after Alexander Parker had done speaking, thou spoke unto him. Whether he did own any part in man, which is to be redeemed, besides that pure principle which he had been speaking of; and thou sayest, he did not answer to the question which thou propoundedst: which thing is false; for answer was made in plainness, to the satisfaction of many; though thou could not receive it, being full and rich in thy own conceit, and so was sent empty away: and after the truth was cleared, to the satisfaction of many people, the Messenger of the Lord passed away, and then hearing thee Bound incensing the people with lies, he came up again, and then was something spoken concerning the Soul; but not before he passed down, as thou in thy Paper falsely asserts; and the Soul was said to be pure, which thou Bound, who knows not the Soul, denied: But the truth shall stand for ever, and over the deceit Reign; and that in the conscience shall answer it, and witness to it: And thou Bound saith in thy lying Paper, That before he, to wit, Alexander Parker, went down, thou stated thy question: Dost thou own a humane Soul, which is to be redeemed, besides, etc. This is false, and a lie; thou didst not mention any such question, before he spoke of the Souls redemption, and so thou liar art for the lake. Several other things there is in thy Paper, which truly are not worth the rapping up, nor mentioning by a sober Christian, which stuff I do return back into the old Bottle again, from whence it came; and the same Testimony that I gave of the Soul, I give the same still, that the Soul is precious and pure witnessed, though not comprehended by the dark wisdom of m●n; for it was then declared that he spoke what he knew, and not by hear-say, but what he witnessed by the living Power of God, which was made manifest; whereby he came to know the Soul, and its Redemption, and purity, and none else knows it but those who witness Redemption; and this Testimony shall stand for ever against thee Bound, and against all the Opposers of the truth: my Soul is pure and precious, and they who live in sin, are Enemies to their own Souls; for the fleshly lusts warreth against the Soul; the Enemy may destroy the body, but cannot kill the Soul: Be thou therefore awarned, and repent of thy lies Bound, and speak not evil of that which thou knowest not, whiles it is called to day, harden not thy heart: thou knowest not how soon thy soul may be required of thee: This is in love to thy Soul, which I love; but for ever I shall stand a witness against thy lies, and that which wars against the Soul: And this Testimony without daubing or equivocating, as thou falsely accuses of, I shall really with my blood against thee Bound, and all thy partakers, who are warring against the truth and all dear Friends, who are convinced of the living and Eternal truth, and have seen the deceit: and the emptiness of all Professions formal, that stands in the will of man, where there is no satisfaction to the hungry, thirsty Soul, but as Swine, feeding upon the Hurkes, in that which discovered all these things do you abide, and keep your habitations and dwellings in the measure of God, waiting for his Power, to purify, and cleanse, and purge out the old learn, that the Soul, which is living, you may witness to praise the living: for the dead praise not God; it is the living, the living that praises God, to whom all praise belongs for evermore.  
Let this be truly Copied over, and sent abroad, and keep a true Copy of it.  
From him who loves the Souls of all people, but hates their sin; Whose name in the Flesh is ALEXANDER PARKER.  
But hath a new name written in the Book of life, which none can read, but he that hath it.  
HEre I shall desire the understanding Reader, for to take notice of the foregoing discourse, and also of Parker's reply, how he falls to contend and wrangle about the time and place, but answereth not one word to the matter then in hand, viz. as before he went down, and after he came up, or where he stood when he spoke the words: This was not material with me: Although I had truly and rightly laid down the Passages of it, as I could instance many that were witnesses of the same; but I shall forbear, because in so doing, I should seem to be so frivolous as he himself.  
Hath not this man manifested his own folly, in putting Pen to Paper, and writing so many Lines, and sending them many miles, and yet answereth not one word unto the thing I charged him with?  
And whether the manner of it, or the matter of it was the more worthy of being mentioned, or replied unto, I shall leave the impartial Reader to judge.  
But only I shall here demand of Parker this one thing, yet once agains Whose Soul was that which he endeavoured to prove to be pure, by that Scripture, Gen. 2.7. And if it was his own Soul, as he afterwards did say, Whether he had forgotten, that he came out of the loins of his old Father Adam?  
But as the Tree is known by its Fruit, so is the stump known by the Branches; but in its due place I shall follow these Branches unto the stump, and so discover the very rottenness of its Roots.  
THe greatest cause of my Relating of this Discourse, and bringing these few Lines into such a public view, is, because John Moon in his lying Book, entitled, The true Light hath made manifest darkness, hath cast false aspersions, and lying accusations upon the Saints in Wales, beginning with Hugh Evans, who is now ceased from his labours: I being one that was very well acquainted with his Doctrine, life, and conversation; and the certainty I have of those sweet, Divine, Spiritual, and Eternal enjoyments that his Soul hath had, and hath, and shall enjoy to Eternity, out of the mortal body, doth remove much grief and sadness from my Spirit, in consideration of his absence in the body: I also having a discovery of the lying and equivocating of John Moon, and Alexander Parker, and others that tread in their erroneous steps; therefore I am engaged to manifest some of it, to the end that the tongues of public known liars may not easily pass their false aspersions, and that truth and Justice may take place, and that falsehood, and all false dealers may be found, and taken in their own snares, and wounded with their own Weapons. Although I acknowledge myself the weakest amongst many, yet seeing the uncircumcised rejoice, and Goliath standing vapouring in the field, viz. John Moon with his lying Book, defying Israel, I am emboldened to press into the Battle: for who is this uncircumcised Philistine, that he should defy the Armies of the living God?  
I being both an eye and an ear-witness unto that Discourse between John Price and John Moon, where John Moon falsely in his Book accuseth John Price, in saying, that he said, There was three ways: This is false; and therefore this is one cause, Why I publish John Moon for a known liar; for the Discourse was grounded upon three distinct things, viz. God, Man, and Devil: Whereupon John Moon Denied one of these three; John Moon did bid him prove them distinct, the which he did prove, God the Creator creating, and man created, and the Devil deceiving; which three were punctually proved: But because the Letter of the Scripture did not name them in this term distinct, it should not pass with him.  
Then John Price asked him, Which of these three would he deny? Then one of John Moons fellow-Teachers, or rather I may say, his Fellow deceiver, named Hugh Lloyd, said, that they denied man: Whereupon John Moon being the more subtle, drew the same Hugh Lloyd back by the shoulder, and said, Let me alone with them. Then we spoke something to this purpose: If it were so, to whom was the Gospel Preached, and to what end Christ came in the flesh? But John Moon, as his manner was usually before, said, There was but light and darkness, God and Devil; although he would not deal so plain as the other did, as to deny man; yet he would not deny what the other had said: whereupon we brought this consequence upon his own words; and we told him what absurdities would follow: That is, That if God and man were not distinct, if man did fall, as the Scripture declareth, than the only pure wise infallible God must also fall, which is blasphemy in a high measure: And also we told him, That if man and Devil were not distinct, that then it must unavoidably follow, that that Christ which came from the bosom of the Father to redeem Sinners, came also to redeem Devils: The which is most erroneous. With this, his mouth was stopped for the present, as unto these things, and had nothing to say; and then the nearest way they had to escape, the said Hugh Lloyd stepped up upon a feat, or some other high place, and there began to speak to the people, and to thunder our such rail, and curse, and Plagues towards us, that we could not have any further opportunity to speak: and then, when I got a little time to speak, I spoke something to the people, concerning those men's erroneous Doctrines: then John Moon having recruited himself afresh, amongst other rail spoke these words: Thou Bound, thou Serpent, thou Son of the Devil, thy brains shall be dashed against the stones; and so I was silenced by their confounded Babel-uproar.  
Then I having by the goodness of God some insight into their Tenets; I went nearer unto the said John Moon, and asked him what part in me was that which he thundered all those Plagues against; or whether that part through being obedient to that light which he said was in me, might escape them: he answered, The Candle of the wicked shall be put out: I told him that he spoke nonsense, as in answer to that which I propounded: then he endeavoured to inform the people that I said, That the Scripture was nonsense.  
I was accused also in another Paper jointly with John Price, for saying, That the Devil was Eternal, as to Eternity, or without end, by John Moon, and one Edward Stephens, who in that Paper said, That they both bare witness that there was nothing Eternal but God, and that which is one with God.  
Now seeing that the aforesaid John Price hath already replied unto the same accusation, for brevity sake, I shall return the Reader unto his reply  in this Book; but only I shall lay down some absurdities, that must unavoidably follow.  
First, concerning Angels, they all having their arise in the same Original Root, are either Eternal, or external.  
First, if they be external, than it followeth that all the Angelical choir of Heaven, and also those that fell from their first estates, shall be annihilated, and come to nothing; which is to say, Heaven, or God's Throne will be found void of Angels; and also Hell will be void of Devils.  
Secondly, If the fallen Angels are Eternal, according to John Moons saying, That there is nothing Eternal but God, or that which is one with God: Then it followeth that the holy and unchangeable God did also fall: the which sayings are fearful to express.  
Secondly, Concerning Adam's Soul, or all men's Souls in Adam, in his fallen condition, before the Sprouts of the humane Tree, or the variety of Nations sprang forth, they were also all either Eternal or external: if external, than it followeth, that the Souls of all the Saints must cease from their sense and feeling of all their sweet enjoyments; and likewise the Souls of the damned from all their woe and torments.  
And if they are Eternal, than it followeth according to john Moons sayings, as aforesaid,  
That the Souls of all men in general are either God, or one with God, and cannot be defiled with sin, nor damned for sin.  
Doth it not here plainly appear, that all the Plagues and woes which they pronounce against men, are but against the external, or outward part of man, and the Astral Souls or life, the which is but for a time, and shall be done away?  
Is not here the ground of all their say found out? john Moon affirming that there is but two things, which is to say, Light and darkness, Heaven and Hell, God and Devil.  
And is not here their beginning (as they call it) and the arise of Alexander Parker's own saying, That the Soul was under sin and slavery, but could not be defiled with sin? And is not this that pure principle of God, which they say is in every man in bondage and slavery, and must be redeemed?  
How now Moon and Parker? have I not pricked you here in your right wound? yea, are ye not here found out? Is not all your lying, and equivocating, and false accusing of others, proved too short a covering for you to hid you in?  
But it may be that you will say, That I have wronged you, and brought a scandal upon you.  
To the which I reply, that if you are here wronged, it is by your own words; for I have here but only made use of your own expressions from your own mouths, and followed your own footsteps unto this den, whence you sprang forth.  
Let this be told you out of the Bowels of love unto your poor Souls, that if you had come to the right and true beginning, you should have seen the arise and Original Root of Angels, and humane Souls, how they were generated, and came forth out of an Eternal Root in love and anger; and how the Angels that fell from their first estates, advanced, or domineered over, or above the meek love, and are held captive, and are reserved in everlasting Chains under darkness, unto the Judgement of the great day.  
And how Adam's right, true humane Soul, or all men's Souls in Adam, fell from their happy estate, and became dead, as to the light and love, and were defiled with sin, and captivated in the anger, and yet no part of that undivided God corrupted.  
Now unto you poor besotted Souls that are taken by the fair outside shows of these forementioned Errors, and yet have not altogether swallowed up the very dregs of their poisoned Cups; notwithstanding you have soon learned that same Lesson of opposing, railing, cursing, and condemning of all those that tread not in your footsteps, because they are not taken with those fancies that you have fixed in your own brains; although thousands of them are more Heavenly and Spiritual than you yourselves. Also you use your uttermost endeavours, to make the Saints names odious in the sight of others: By these and other means you have caused the blind to go out of the way, and the seeking Souls to look back; have you not also quit and sold all your reading, your meditating, and your earnest seeking of God, for railing and frivolous contending about you know not what, yea about a false Doctrine, that was never found in the Rolls of God's Divine Court, and never owned nor confirmed by his dear and only Son, nor published by his Holy Spirit; which is to say. That all men's Souls are either God, or one with God, and cannot be defiled with sin, nor condemned for sin; and that all the Plagues and woes that are pronounced, are but against the external, or outward part of man, the which shall be done away.  
Here I have briefly out of love, and not in opposition unto any, but only unto the man of sin, given you a discovery of the snare, that is secretly laid before your Souls; but if you will shut your eyes, and stop your ears, and so wilfully remain blind, your blood shall be upon your own heads, and I shall here wash my hands from the guilt of your erroneous revolt.  
Now unto you the Cainish Cathedral Stone-church Priests, and Tithe-mongers, and new upstart Hirelings, you are all for what you can hear said against any that in any measure do oppose you in your function: Although I have put my hand to the publish of the discovery of some men's Errors; think not that I shall put my least finger to the maintaining of yours: you are all for the back and belly, and for your own glory, if you had but wherewith to attain it: some of you have been for these many years daunted with the fear of your own ruin; yet you usually rejoice to hear, that any are cried down besides yourselves.  
Let the sight and feeling of your own covetous carnal corrupt minds, stop your mouths.  
Let your proud and haughty hearts become meek and lowly.  
Let your confounded Languages become silent.  
And let your Babel-building cease.  
Let your own eloquence and Scholastic wisdom become foolishness: So that you may be wise.  
Let those that stole, steal no more: Let shame cover your faces; and let your glory fall to the dust.  
Let God arise, and let all flesh be silent before the Lord.  
Your dumb Ministry is fruitless, and your words are empty, vain, and pithless, and shall not profit the people, saith the Lord.  
Your Spirits are benumbed by your unlawful gain, and you and your Souls are become Servants and Slaves unto the unrighteous Mammon.  
Your calling is by a mortal and inferior Power, and your places have you purchased with your corrupt Silver.  
Your strength is in the Arm of flesh.  
Your Authority is of mortal men: And they that authorise you, are like unto you: The Lord God hath a controversy against you, and you are all abvilding of a confounded tottering Tower, that shall shortly fall upon your own heads.  
Now unto you blindfolded worldlings, and prodigal proud stone-Kirke Members, the Devil hath found you a Toy to play withal in these days; those seldom times that you come under the means of grace, & true Preaching of the word, whereby you, in being attentive & diligent to hear, might have a right and true salve applied unto your wounded and corrupted Souls: But instead of so doing, your wanton scoffing minds are then (by your Driver) fitted for another design: you slight all that is said concerning your own dangerous sinful slavish condition, and you also are all for what you can hear is said in opposition against others. And thus you idly and vainly wear out your few dearbought days, and spend them in fulfilling of your own false wills.  
The minor Party you scoff and jeer at, and all that they maintain, be it true or false.  
The Major party and their sayings you brag and boast, be it right or wrong.  
Your opposing of the one Party, is more out of the bitterness of your Spirits against the truths they sometimes speak of, then out of any sensible knowledge that you have of the Errors they maintain.  
And the other Party that you sometimes vainly prate for, it is out of your partiality, and outward respect you have to their persons, or rather would be respected by them, more than out of any love you have to any truth that they hold forth: for you know not truth from falsehood; neither can you discern between Errors and found Doctrine, because you have forsaken the God that created you; and ye know not your Redeemer: your hearts are made fat, your eyes are shut, and your ears are stopped; you see, but discern not▪ you hear, but do not understand, Isai. 6.20. You slight the means of grace, and you know not the day of your Visitation.  
Your terribleness and the pride of your hearts hath deceived you, O you that dwell in the clefts of the Rocks, and proudly walk upon the high Hills, and make your nests as high as the Eagle, or amongst the Stars: yet I will bring you down, saith the Lord. Jer. 49 20. Obad. 4. You forsake the Paths of uprightness, to walk in the ways of darkness; you rejoice to do evil, and delight in the frowardness of the wicked. Woe be unto you that call good evil, and evil good, that put darkness for light, and light for darkness, that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter. Woe unto them that are wise in their own eyes, & prudent in their own sight: Woe unto them that are mighty to drink Wine, and men of strength to mingle strong drink, which justify the wicked for reward, and take away the righteousness of the Righteous from him: therefore as the fire devoureth the stubble, and the flame consumeth the chaff, so their Root shall be rottenness, and their Blossom shall go up as dust, because they have cast away the Law of the Lord of Hosts, and despised the word of the Holy one of Israel. Isai. 5.20, 21, 22, 23, 24.  
O Poor wretched and miserable men, let this be told you, that your temporal joy is the producing of your Eternal woe and sorrow; and that the time draweth near, when your laughter shall be turned into weeping, and your joy into heaviness; and you shall be deprived of all your temporal enjoyments, and the object of your foolish mirth and youthful rejoicing shall be done away, and then sorrow and grief will approach unto you, and horror and anguish will seize upon you, and you will be found naked, and void of the Wedding-Garment, and be bound hand and foot, and cast into utter darkness, there shall be weeping and gnashing of Teeth.  
Now unto you carnal Professors, and mere lip-labourers, that draw near unto God with your mouths, and honour him with your lips, but your hearts are far from him.  
You have learned to talk of a God, and Godliness, but the only true God, and the Power of Godliness you know not; your chiefest Treasure is transitory, and the object of your joy is but for a moment; your Webs shall not become Garments, neither shall you cover yourselves with your works; your works are the works of Iniquity, and the Act of violence is in your hands; the way of peace you know not, and there is no Judgement in your go; you have made unto you: crooked Paths; whosoever goeth therein, shall not know Peace: Woe be unto you that are at ease in Zion, yea you that have put your hands to the Blow, and are looking back; therefore you are not fit for the Kingdom of God Amos 6.1. Luk. 9 62. You sow the wind, and reap the whirlwind; you conceive chaff, and bring forth stubble; your words are empty, your Wombs are barren, and your breasts are dry.  
Your building is founded upon the Sands, you are a fruitless Vineyard. Isai. 5.2. Bearing sour Grapes; you are Clouds without Water, carried about with winds, dry Branches, Trees whose Fruit withereth, without Fruit, twice dead, plucked up by the Roots. Judas 12.  
O blind, naked, and miserable men, let this be told you, that the work of regeneration and the new birth, is an earnest work, and that it requireth very much careful watching, and continual striving. Luk. 13 24. Mark 13.33, 35. And earnest pressing to be brought forth out of the corrupt something into the pure nothing, which is all in all.  
Now unto the despised seeking Souls, who earnestly seek the Lord in truth, in sailing over this Ocean of misery; your Ship hath been grievously toffed by many a raging Wave, and by side-winds have been cast near many dangerous Gulfs; yet during the time of these storms and tempests, by great providence, and unspeakable mercies, you cast forth your Anchors upon a sure Rock; and when the calm cometh, so that you take a view of those dangers that you have escaped, and rejoice; yet you ascribe not the glory of your deliverance unto yourselves, but earnestly make toward the promised Land, notwithstanding you mourn over those that are over-turned; yet your mourning shall be turned into joy; your building is founded upon the Rock; your Treasure is not corrupt: You have a building of God, an house not made with hands, Eternal in the Heavens: No Lion shall be there, nor any Ravenous Beasts shall go up thereon; it shall not be found there, but the Redeemed shall walk there.  
And the Ransomed of the Lord shall return, and come to Zion with Songs, and everlasting joy upon their heads, and they shall obtain joy and gladness, and sorrow and sighing shall flee away.  
With whom I desire to commune and associate continually, who am your Friend and Fellow-traveller, WILLIAM BOUND.  
FINIS.   

Printed at LONDON, And are to be sold by Daniel White, at the seven Stars in Pauls-Church-Yard. 1658.