THE QUERERS AND QUAKERS CAUSE AT The second HEARING. OR, The Quakers Antiquering Advocate examined: his Pleadings found light and weak, his Language lewd and railing, his Principles loose and large. The Quaking and entransed faction discovered to be a new branch of an old root, revived by Satan; some of their strange ungospel-like tenants, unchristian practices, and opinions fathered upon the Spirit, to be abhorred, and avoided by all holy souls, are also discovered, and truly laid open. 1 JOHN 4.1. Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits, whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world. Quintilian. in Declamat. Nulli venenum facilius datur, quam qui accipit utique tanquam medicamentum. poison is more easily given to no man, then to him that takes it as a wholesome Medicine. LONDON, Printed by I.G. for Nath: brook, at the Angel in cornhill, 1653. To the Indifferent and impartial READER. Good Reader, BY this be pleased to take notice, that some people all over Yorkshire being turned Seekers, having turned out prayer, preaching, and the Ordinances of God, and counting them too low things to follow, the Old Seeker, 2 Pet. 5.8. who goes about continually seeking whom he may devour, hath fallen upon them, and drawn them into absurd, and unreasonable both principles and practices, by running up and down the Country to act in quakings and transes, and drawing many after them to leave Ordinances, Callings, Relations, and despite both Nature and Grace at once. One, piously intending by thirty queries propounded, to warn them that stand, and waken them are fallen, to see into what a pitiful pit of errors they are fallen, hath been furiously set upon by an Advocate for them, whom they judge more scholar, and fitter to answer then themselves. He is a Seeker, but no professed Quaker, but willing to defend any thing save Truth. He hath answered the queries in three sheets with Antiquaeries, which his Admirers commend and extol as a rare piece, and so it is, as a key-gun is a rare piece of Ordnance to a little boy, if it spit with a little fire and Gunpowder. This indeed hath much of Schoolship and Divinity in it, if Railing be Reasoning and Vanity Divinity. It seems he waited for an opportunity, and was glad he got it, to blaspheme the ministry, and preaching of the gospel in print. He hath done it so fully, that the Quaerer was loathe to answer him, and thought this a sufficient and large enough Answer. Eccles. 10.13. The beginning of the words of his mouth is foolishness, and the end of his talk mischievous madness; being of this mind, that Reason is worth answering, Absurdities answer themselves. Yet lest the ignorant should crow like Cocks of the game, and Masters of the Pit, they should be hardened in errors, and others by seeming flourishes seduced, a friend to the Quaerer hath taken up his defence, in officiousness to serve the truth, Eccles. 7.9. who therefore earnestly desires rather to have truth and meekness rest in his bosom, then that which rests in the bosom of fools. If the Antiquaerer shall come again, this Replier promises, he shall have leave upon his own paper stage to wrestle, wrangle, reproach and Scuffle by himself. Onely Reader know this, you shall find nothing here relating to these Quakers tenants and doings, but what is true, and will be made good, and from their opinions all from their own words and papers. All this is done, and the Lord make it effectual for this purpose; to reclaim wandring souls, to settle staggering souls, to warn all provident and cautious souls, to look to themselves and get to be grounded in the truth. For Satan, seeing how weakly and poorly many souls were founded, and built up in the knowledge of Christ and his gospel, sent out his messengers with this hope. Nehem. 4.3. That which these ignorant souls so ungroundedly build, if a fox go up, he shall even break down their ston wall. He hath sent a fox, and he hath done it, many are fallen being weak, and unwary, and but built upon the sand. Consider the Antiquaerer and the Replies, judge. 19.20. let Truth bear the greatest weight, Umpire and Judge by the Sentence of Truth and word of God, and this is all that is desired. Consider of it, take advice, and speak your mindes. The queries being but short, you shall have here the queries, the Antiquaeries in each part needful, and the Reply to them. QUAERIE I. WHether they have any other warrant to put themselves into those quaking, and trembling postures, then those general parts of the word, which commend the working out Salvation with fear and trembling? Trembling at the word, serving the Lord with fear, and rejoicing before him with trembling, &c. The Antiquaerie. Whether this man, who propounds these queries, speak soberly, or rashly, if not maliciously, of that he understands not, when as he saith in his first Quaerie, they put themselves into quaking and trembling postures? whereas it is a thing, which they cannot avoid and fly from. The Reply to the Antiquaerie. For the queries, whether it were soberly, rashly, maliciously or ignorantly propounded is the Antiqueries demand? I will answer for you, and tell you your judgement such as it is, you mean one Negative and three Affirmatives. Namely, it was not soberly, there is the Negative; but you give him three Affirmative lies for it, rashly, maliciously, and ignorantly. Here is too much for the Quaerer, I pray you being of the Family of love take some of them to yourself; and give leave to say, that the Antiquaerer saith many things ignorantly and maliciously also. Here comes in all the rashness, ignorance, and malice, that the Quaerer saith, they put themselves into quaking and trembling postures, whereas the Antiquaerer saith, it is a thing they cannot avoid or fly from. Why may it not be thought they put themselves into these postures and pranks? Have not some of their brethren the false Prophets said, when they Prophesied, they were put upon it by the Lord, by visions and dreams from him, when the Lord neither appeared to them, nor spoken one word to them? Thus saith the Lord of hostes,( concerning the false Prophets) harken not unto the words of the prophets that prophesy unto you: Jerem. 23.16. they make you vain, they speak a vision of their own heart, and not out of the mouth of the Lord. Jer. 23.25, 26. I have heard what the prophets said, that prophesy lies in my name, saying, I have dreamed, I have dreamed,— yea they are Prophets of the deceit of their own heart. Have the pride, vanity and delusions of their spirits got such a power over them, as it is turned into a holy rage and violence, and they cannot avoid it, or fly from it? I have more charity, Mr. Advocate, for them then you, you say they cannot avoid it, I say they will not avoid it; For they think it is the divine inspiration,( though it be mere delusion) and they will not though they could avoid it, for they judge that were resisting of high motions. But whom shall we believe in this business, you or them? you say, they cannot avoid it, you never quaked nor played a Transers part, you cannot tell, yea but they tell you so. Know you not that many Clients make bad causes good to their Advocates, till they come to be pleaded and witnessed publicly, and then the Advocate is ashamed of his Clients and his cause? Now that you may know something from the Ancient Traders in this way, for it is an old Love lock cut off from Satans head, and now growing into fashion again, I shall relate you what of old was practised in this kind, and judge whether it were not likely to be more voluntary, then violent and enforced, it is from the relation of holy Zuinglius, when the Church of Zurick was extremely pestered with these Catabaptistick, ecstatic, Enthusiasts; There was( saith he) among the Catabaptists at Sangall, a young wench of twelve yeares old, or somewhat upward, the daughter of a right minded Father. Zuing. Ep. l. 2. in Elench. ad ver. Catabapt. He being about going abroad to carry forth corn, for his calling was that way, his daughter advised him to stay that day at home, and he should see wonderful things. Some while after the wily girl falls into her trance, lies as it were in an ecstasy, and when she comes out, she babbled any fanatical vain thing as she saw good. His Observation, I mean Zuinglius, upon it is this; you see, saith he, she knew before hand when she should fall; And the reason why she fell not before, when she saw her Father about to go forth, was, she was not yet fully instructed and taught, she waited for some thing that she further needed to fit her for her business. And further he saith, as one that knew it, that they used to cast themselves suddenly down, as if they were epileptic, taken with the falling sickness, holding their breath in as long as ever they can, and feigning themselves to be in an ecstasy, give a fearful appearance to them that look on them, and then coming out, as if they were awakened, they tell you strange things they have both seen and learnt. Judge now whether ours be not as like to these, as egg to egg. Holy men, that saw them, judged there was no force, but feigning; no violence▪ but what was from their own voluntary contrivance and collusion. Besides, ours tell us, when they come out of their fits, no strange things, but what they commonly said before, Repent, Repent, woe, woe, or the day of wrath is coming against such and such, &c. Withall, it is, or may be known to you and others, that they are seldom or never entransed in their ecstatical Quakings, but before others and in company, because the speech at the end of their quaking, is the main end of their quaking, by it to persuade a Divinity is upon them to their credulous Auditors and spectators. Lastly, I could answer you, you do like a corrupt Advocate flatter your Client in a bad cause, and put fairest glosses and colours upon it, when the cause is not good; and if it were as you say, that they were forced, it is so much the worse, and is more like the raptures that the Priests of Apollo, and other deliverers of Oracles of the Devils were taken with, and were violently forced to do and speak as they did, and could not avoid it. Peucer. in Commentar. de Divinat. Genereb. praecip. Tit. de Orac. Yea Apollo's she Priests first drunk of a water in a secret place of the Temple, and after the draft they were enforced into a fit of prophesying. Though I say nothing in comparison to it of your womans bottle, not troubling myself to seek out that, which has been witnessed by some. The water, the Pythian she Priests drunk off, was such a water, as would quench burning brands or tapers, being held near to it, and being held a good way off would kindle and light them again being quenched. And it is well known that in a strange enforced rapture or fury all the devilish Priests delivered the Oracles. So that it is little for their credit, that you say they are enforced, your defence is offensive to their way for the credit and Divineness of it. When they gave out answers they did it with an horrible sound& noise, they were furiously acted and moved, there was trembling and palpitation of all their joints. Thus did not the prophets of God undergo a like violence in their visions, and divine occurrencies. Tell us of less violence and force in yours, and we shall think more softly of it: but if you say it is enforced, you will force us into a suspicion of it. QUERE II. Whether when holy trembling and fear is commended in Scriptures, there be meant any other ordinarily, then the spiritual and holy dread in the soul, to stand in awe of God, repent before him, and to walk humbly with the Lord? Antiquer. reply. Why dost thou put in the word Ordinarily? It seems thou thyself darest not exclude an extraordinary trembling, to be comprehended in those scriptures; and if it be comprehended at all in any of them, it is sufficient, &c. reply to Antiquer. There was Reason to put in the word Ordinarily, because Extraordinary things fall not under Rule; nor common practise But quaking with noise and strange motions is ordinary with the people that worship your strong imaginations▪ I had almost said, that have sent upon them strong delusions to believe lies. Yet you are resolved on it, if the Scripture speak of any extraordinary tremblings; it is enough to justify yours. Now suit Master Advocate you have not Littleton for this, and Scripture will not serve you to justify it. If it be comprehended in any, you say it serves. Sam. 19.15. I perceive any thing will serve you. Will this serve you? There was a trembling in the host of the philistines they trembled and quaked and it was a very great trembling, or as trembling of God. I judge this will not serve you, though comprehended in Scriptures, for this was an extraordinary quaking sent upon the philistines and not upon Israel, you would not have your Clients taken for philistines. I shall come to your mind, in those Scriptures, that is, in those mentioned in the Quaere, and where trembling is not onely comprehended but commended. Well, in those Scriptures of standing in awe, Psal. 4. Repenting before the Lord and walk humbly with God, Mic. 6. I do not conceive there is commended or comprehended any extraordinary trembling, but what is or should be ordinary in every holy soul, that is of a meek, melting, humble, holy spirit, that fears the Lord and his goodness. You will hardly have rhetoric enough to persuade any solid Christians, that if they will do as all former Saints did, stand in awe of God, and walk humbly with the Lord, they must needs turn into entransings and quakings. do not you know, that the fear and holy awe of the soul was as well, and better evidenced by studying to observe Gods commands, and to depart from evil, then by any wrestings or wringings of the body into antic appearances? Then you tell us that some of the servants of God have been shaken, as if all their bones were out of joint, and made to roar, and that is sufficient to prove it, because David, though a strong one, Zach. 12.8. was a type of the weak ones, and you say, he that is weak shall be as David. Davids bones being as it were out of joint, his being shaken and his roaring, if you do not, others understand it thus, that by these phrases expressing pain and trouble in the body, is not meant any other then the fearful and sad state of his troubled soul, by apprehending the grievousness of Gods anger against him for sin, the heavy evil of Gods clouding his face, and hiding the joy of his salvation from him. His roaring was his earnestness of praying, calling, sighing after God. He perhaps might not speak one word, when he sometimes roared unto God, for the earnest and holy applyings of the troubled soul to God, by humble, penitent, believing sighs and groans are roarings, Exod. 14.15. and better then loudest cries in Gods ears. The Lord said to Moses, why criest thou to me? We hear not of his crying, but we are sure his soul cried and roared with the high language of faith, and earnest, zealous, secret and spiritual pleadings with God, 1 Sam. 1. better then all words. So Hanah spoken in her heart to the Lord, and yet the Lord heard it. David may mention his roaring to God, when he spoken it may be in a word: and his bones being all as it were out of joint and shaken, when the body shewed no outward motion, but it was the commotion and trouble of his distempered soul and spirit. For that Scripture of zachary, The weak shall be as David▪ applied unto Davids quaking and roaring, it is a childs arrow shot without aiming at any mark, or a wrong mark. Indeed when God hides his face from weak souls, they shall be sh●ken and troubled in their spirits, as David was, in some measure. But what is this to falling on the ground and quaking? you may abuse other things with less guilt then abuse the Scripture. Let me set you right here without any abusing you, or the prophet zachary. The meaning of this is, the weak shall be as David, that is, when God shall visit his Church with grace and mercy, and they shall repent and turn to him, he will bless them all, and make the weak souls that had fallen, upon their repentance, rise up with as much courage, joy, and spiritual strength to walk in the service of the Lord, as David did. He will not onely show mercy to the strong ones, but he will protect the weak ones also, and make them strong in faith and comforts of faith, as David was. Esay 2.4.12, 13 Esay 23.9. Esay 2.18.19, 20, 21. The rest that you have in the Antiquerie are but flourishes of swords you speak beaten into plough shares; of every one that is high and lifted up to be brought low, the Honourable brought to contempt: Idols of silver and gold cast to Moles and Bats for fear of the Lord and glory of his majesty, when he arises to shake terribly the earth. Do you think all the overturnings of kingdoms, People, places threatened in Scripture are proofs and arguments with an Ergo, we must fall into a trance after this manner? It is a good Argument, since God will so exalt his power and justice against sinners, therefore we ought to search and try our ways and turn unto him; since God comes to humble and bring down all that is proud and high. If I were a Preacher, with your leave I would make this use of it: Let us humble ourselves by repentance and seek to the Lord for mercy, that when he comes to humble all the lofty of the earth, he may find us kindly and rightly humble to his hand. This humbling and turning penitents, may be, I judge, without turning Quakers. — At last you tell us, these things are foretold,& must come to pass,& how shall they be Ordinary when they seldom, or never were before?— What do you mean? Were the Honourable of the earth never humbled before? Did the Lord never shake the earth before? There have been great alterations in Church and State before your time and mine. God has heretofore poured out the fury of war, plagues, famines, depopulations, and strong judgements in the dayes of our Ancestors, yea from the beginning of the world. Are you in a trance too, that you say these were seldom or never before, and then how should they be Ordinary? I pray consider yourself, and mind what you writ; if this be believed by you, your judgement is but very ordinary, and theirs so too that depend upon it. QUERE III. Whether it were Ordinary in the Old and New Testament for the holy Servants of God to quake, be entransed, make strange noises, show strange swellings and stirrings of the body, as if they were possessed with some spirit? Antiquerie. Whether dost not thou render this work under as odious terms as thou canst, to enrage every one against them, upon whom it falls?— Was not roaring and mourning like Doves strange noises? Was not Peter entransed, and Paul rapt up, and John caught up in the spirit higher and higher, to hear and see the mysteries of God opened? And yet thou darest revile the dealings of the Lord with his Servants. reply to the Antiquerie. There are no odious terms put upon this work, but such as are the lively and natural representations of the actions themselves: for are they not seen accompanied with quakings, swellings and stirrings of the body? you are pleased to make a second stumble at the word( Ordinary) which was spoken to above, and it may well be used in the query, because Peters entransing, and Pauls falling to the earth astonished, and such like, were extraordinary, and so cannot fall under such ordinary and common expectation, as to let every one of your way look for it. For roaring and mourning like Doves, you ask if these were not strange noises? I answer as before, it was more in the inward passionate desires, and sighing of the soul complaining secretly to God, then any outward noise from the body. Actings of the soul commonly are set out by borrowing expressions from the body and other creatures, as mourning like Doves, chattering like Cranes. At last you writ such things as I wonder you quake not so to abuse Scripture, and apply the Lords dealings with some of his Saints, to the trembling and odd fits of your deceived Proselytes. What a base comparison is this, to compare Peters entransing, Pauls being rapt up into Heaven, Johns being taken up in the Spirit, to those unspirit like actions& passions of men& women lying upon the ground, or throwing themselves upon a bed? O the blindness of a man set and bent to maintain fancies! Peters was a supernatural and extraordinary case, when he was called by a Vision from God to turn in to the Gentiles. In the Vision there was the opening of the Heavens shewed to him, a sheet let down as it were from Heaven, Act. 20.11, 12, &c. a voice from Heaven calling upon him, and the spirit telling him, that three men were seeking him; and besides all this, Peter was seeking God by prayer. We know no voice yours have from Heaven, no vision but of their own brain, no extraordinary business that they are called to more then others, and for prayer and the Ordinances they may lie for ever in a trance, they use them not, unless it be as you use the Scriptures here, to wrong and abuse them. Then Pauls being wrapped up into Heaven, 2 Cor. 12. must be a pattern for their being rapt down to the earth. fear you not thus to wrest and wring the holy Scriptures of God, to give an Heavenly pass to your wretched follies, the vile froth of seduced hearts? The Lord open your eyes to see how unworthily you deal with his sacred writings. I appeal to any that hath any savoury knowledge or taste of the things of the word of God, whether Pauls being wrapped up into Heaven, into Paradise, have any similitude or likeness to these strange lyings of divers men and women, heads and points upon the earth, unless they think there is nothing liker Heaven then this. Johns being caught up in the Spirit must be brought in too, for these they tell us, see mysteries, yea and so see we too, the mystery of familism in you, or the mystery of strong delusions, the mysteries of a spirit of giddiness. But Sir, you defend them not well enough, they have in their writings set us down a great many Scriptures, wherein they find quaking and trembling better then these you bring by the head and shoulders. David said, Psal. 119.120. My flesh trembleth for fear of thee, and I am afraid of thy Judgements. Paul trembled, Acts 9. we hear of Habakkucks trembling, Acts 9. Habak. 3. Heb. 12. Moses his fear and quaking, and many others. And their inference is this, therefore Moses, Habakkuck, David, Paul, were all patrons of the quakers. Nay, they tell us, Phil. 2.12. we are bid to work out our Salvation with fear and trembling, and therefore all are to quake: and if this be not good logic, ask Thomas Aldam, surely it makes but odd Divinity, this to squeeze and press the Scriptures. I could show you how in this you deal with the word of God, as the alchemists do, Quantum Astrenomi metiuntur, tantum Astrologi mentiuntur Marcil. Ficinus. who bring a great many Scriptures to prove the philosophers ston, and the seeking for it. Thus Astrologers who oft-times make lies heavenly wide, bring Scriptures to patronise reading all things in the Stars and Planets. God gave these holy writings to shine and lead us into light, not to carry us into darkness, and not to bend and bow them to our own dark ends. QUAERE IV. Whether if they heap up all Scriptures, that mention trembling and quaking, they may not put in this also, the Devils believe and tremble? The Antiquaerie. Whether this discover not an heart filled with maliciousness and indignation? For out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh. And secondly, whether this be not a Contradiction to the 14. Quaere, where thou sayest they make nothing of the outward Command of the word? The Reply to the Antiquaerie. It may be the Quaerers heart was full of Indignation, and so is mine too against such strange injurers of the spirit of God, and word of God, that none da●e bring Scriptures, as the devil quoted one place, to persuade Christ to break his neck by Scripture. The Quaerer may keep his holy Indignation, and leave the unholy maliciousness to you. 2 Cor. 7.11. Esay 66.14. For there may be indignation without malice, as to Saints,& to God himself acts of indignation are sometimes assigned. For that of the Devills believing and trembling it should not seem strange to you, whose principles are so large and comprehensive, as you have been ready not only to have been an Advocate for the Quakers, but an Advocate for the Devills also to pled for them& their salvation. For your people bragging all over, you are the Author of these Antiquaeries, may hear this also or read it, that you are ready to prove not onely saveablenesse, but that the lost Ang●lls shall be saved. What strange thing should you make it then, that the Quaerer tells you the D●vills believing and trembling might be brought in, with trembling also of Men and Women that shall be saved? You know this well can be made good by divers witnesses, that you alleged Scripture to prove it, and as strange a Scripture for that purpose as might be. This is your gospel or glad tidings for the fallen Angells in zachary. As for thee also by the blood of the Covenant, Zach 9.11. I have sent forth thy Prisoners out of the pit wherein is no water. I never heard that this was the Devills Gospel before, but I perceive Seekers find unsound things to pitch upon, rather then truth. Any that have but ordinary inspection into the Bible will tell you, that these prisoners of hope are the Jews, that the pit without water is the Babylonian Captivity, and that the blood of the Covenant is the blood of Christ shadowed out by the blood of the Sacrifices, Exod. 24.8. Heb. 13.20. And that Christs blood was shed for them from whom he took fl●sh and blood. Now he took not on him the nature of Angells, but he took on him the seed of Abraham, Heb 2.14. and this was, since the children are partakers of flesh and blood to save them and to destroy through death him that had the power of death, that is, the Devil. Destroying is a contrary way to saving. I would not have you writ commentaries on Scripture, for you would in zachary make the Devills Saints, such as should be saved, or else you would make the Jews Devills, and Babylons captivity Hell. I could have told you of many Scriptures fitter to your purpose, Mark. 16.15. with far better colour. As that, preach the gospel to every creature, if to every creature, then to fallen Angels, for they are creatures. Yet this would prove very weak to any solid soul, it may serve with jet judgements, that draw chaff and light straws to them. Those that hear of the right hands Venite into everlasting life, have reason to judge that the left hands item into everlasting fire is equally everlasting with it, Mat. 25.46. and without end. Make you not that long lasting onely which God makes everlasting. This is onely by the way, to show your squeamish stomach at this of bringing in the Devils believing and trembling, when yourself well knows this will be justified to your face as your orthodox opinion, you think after some time the Devills sh●ll be saved. You may set down the time, but the Scriptures and Oracles of God set down none. The last thing in your Antiquaerie is this, that this seems to be the Quaerers contradiction of himself, who in his 14. Quaere saith, the Quakers make nothing of the outward Command of the word. You will do well, if you will consider these words a little better, Advocates had need to be advised lest they overshoote themselves. The Devills believe and tremble, do these words carry the nature of a command? is there any command or precept in them? Doth God command, or James command any thing by this? It is a plain proposition, or assertion of the sad state of the Devils, that they believe but it is a woeful belief full of application of eternal discomfort& undergoing of Gods wrath. Many things are in the written word that are not commands of God, some of them are words of the devil, as All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me. This is to waken you, having an adversary, to look and examine what you writ; you take advantage where it is not given you, others will take advantage, yea though in a good cause, much more will advantage be taken when one deals in a bad cause. QUAERE V. Whether the Spirit, that this people are lead by, be a good Spirit, because they are lead into disorders? but Gods Spirit is a Spirit of Order. The Antiquaerie. Whether to assemble together in a peaceable, harmless way, be disorder? Whether did Christ or any of the Apostles judge the flocking together of the people after truth to be disorder, though the world counted it a turning of all upside down? The Reply to the Antiquaery. No great ado shall we make here for answer. For some of yours I shall pass over briefly, as having little matter in them worth answering; your peoples assembling is said to be in a peaceable, harmless way, and therefore cannot be disorder, you say so, it is not so. Is this a peaceable and harmless way for a man to leave his wife and children, to run about, and let them shift for themselves? Or is this a peaceable and harmless way for Wives to leave their Husbands against their wills? you know there were women at the Assizes accused for this, the leaving their Husbands, and they professed they would do it. I perceive any thing is peaceable and harmless that sets up this running trade any way. I thought this had been disorder, that any should voluntarily leap out of that calling, and break off that Relation God had set& fixed them in, and this should be done of their own heads, and with much headiness. I thought this had been disorder to stand up in orderly assemblies of Gods people, to interrupt Ministers and teachers of the word of God. For the rest I am ashamed of the comparison, that you should say Christ and his Apostles never blamed the people for flocking after the truth, they had no reason to do it. But what if they had done as these, flocked after dotages and errors, would they not have blamed them? yes, sure I am. Do these that despise and rail at preaching of the gospel, baptism, Supper, &c. do these flock after truth? I will have none of that truth that despises the word of truth. QUAERE VI. Whether they have not the word of God as a shadow, when they make it stand by at their pleasure? As when the man will leave the Wife, or Wife the Husband to follow their Circumcellion walks and roving about. The Antiquaerie. Whether doth Christ plainly put his servants sometimes upon forsaking all for his sake, Houses, Brethren, Sisters, Father, Mother, Wife, Children, Lands? Mat. 19.29.— And for the word Circumcellion, why dost thou use a dark word so improperly? which of them are Alehouse or Taverne-hanters? The Reply to the Antiquaery. Two things I have to say to the first part of forsaking all for Christs sake. First, that it is possible there may be a forsaking of all for Christ, without any local secession, or breaking from the society of Husband, Wife, Children, &c. The excellentest part of forsaking is in the heart, and acted about the affections& will, wholly given up to Christ, though outward callings and actions be still used. Secondly, that this new kind of forsaking all hath no more likeness of doing it for Christ, then London is like Constantinople, or your town is like Mexico. For this you call a forsaking all for Christ, is but a changing of the objects of your pleasures, and changing for a fancies sake, not for faiths sake. If you be a Seeker, you may seek long enough, ere you can make their practices agree with Christs Rule.( I pass by your general charge against the Querer, you being {αβγδ}, an evil speaker and slanderer in it, and there being no appearance of any thing but unlearned passions) then you come to the word Circumcellion, and ask the Querer why he uses such a dark word so improperly? which of these he blames are Ale-house or Taverne-haunters? For this word Circumcellion, which you call a dark word, I shall enlighten the darkness of it to you; I pitty your Schollersh p is so dim and dusky, that you know not what it means; I dare not tell you, that had you stepped but a little into Austin, one of the learnedst and most considerable African Christians, you might easily have ploughed with his heifer, and known it. circuncellions were a branch of the sect of the Donatists, but that may be a dark word to you also. The Donatists were a sect in Africa like your Perfectists and Quakers, that held the Church was no where but among them, they were pure without spot and wrinkle, the best must be Baptized again, that join with them; all were sinners and unclean but they. They slandered, and to their power persecuted all that went not their way; you know who doth so. They held none were to be urged by any authority and power to live well, but to use their own liberty or licence rather: Magistrates with them were not to meddle with heretics by any acts of coercion,& divers other deliriums they maintained. Among them were some called Circumcelliones, the busiest, boldest, and the seditiousest sort of them, running about and watching opportunities, where they were strong enough, to speak all evil, and deal blows and wounds to them were not of their cut. And because as in a winters night, you cry hang out a light, by the sound of the word circuncellions, presently dreaming of a dark Wine-cellar, or some blind Ale-house; I shall quit you of that suspicion. They were so called from certain Cells and little Cottages they had in the fields, in which they would give appearance of their living an austere, Genus hominum agreate& famofissimae audaeiae. Aug. de Haeres. ad Quod vult deum. c. 99. rigid, and solitary life, though thence they run out, and meeting those that bowed not to their imaginations; they beat, robbed, wounded and killed some. Sir, circuncellions I called yours, for running far from home, roving about, and interrupting Ministers, and Assemblies of people, orderly abiding in the worship of God, threatening, cursing, and giving bitter language. You may red enough of these other in Austins Epistles; and in Optatus you shall find that these roaring Sectaries running about, Circumeellicnum insani deuces nominabant se Sanctorum deuces. Optat. contra. Parmenian. lib. 3. called their Ringleaders, the Leaders and Captaines of the Saints. I know your Clients think the Leaders of them taller then any we count Saints, by the head and shoulders. I shall leave this Antiquerie with this, though they be not tavern and Ale-house haunters, yet they may be as bad, being drunk and quiter typsie in Satans cellar with pride, conceit of perfection, censuring and damning all others, busy-bodies, turbulent, so as that may be applied to them. Esay 29.9. They are drunk, but not with wine: Since Circumcellion so stumble you, I am sure our Antiquerer is no antiquary, unless it be in defending old errors, and yet he thinks it new light. QUERE VII. Whether the Apostle is to be justified in saying, Let every one abide in his own calling, in so doing he abideth with God; or those parties are to be justified more, that leave their callings and families, and take up the trade of the spirit, that runs about and compasses the earth? Antiquer. Whether the thousands of Believers spoken of in the Acts of the Apostles, did not abide in that calling wherewith they were called of God, although they sold up what they had, and lived together? And if these should do so, whether doth this man know they do not abide in that calling to which they are called of God? reply to Antiquerie. First I will give you answer to this part of your plea. Those in the Acts did abide in their callings, did not run away from wives and children, did not leave their debts unpaid to betake themselves to that holy way of living together for a while, did not cease living in some honest exercise; prove you the contrary if you can. For that they sold up what they had and lived together, when we know what you will make of this, I shall think you worthy an answer. If you drive at community, that place of the Acts will not serve you. Yours selling up their goods to that purpose we see not, but some we see very willing to live upon others. At length you come to an If, if these should do so, whether doth this man know, &c. Good Sir, stop there, for this Man might tell you he knows two things. 1. He knows these do not so, nay they are far from doing like to the primitive Christians as yet. 2. He knows again that they now walk irregularly, and out of their callings. First, they do not so as the former did, for besides communicating of their goods and supplies to their brethrens necessities, they continued daily with one accord in the Temple, Acts 2.46, 47. these neither can endure the place of Gods public worship, nor those that use it. They praised God, and had favour with all the people, and did eat their bread with gladness and singleness of heart. We hear nothing of your mens strange pranks among them. I know your mind, you would have all common. But you are deceived in that point, for those rare Saints at first entertaining of the gospel, though they had large charity to relieve the wanting, yet might keep propriety and distribute as they would, they might sell a part, and keep a part for themselves, unless they publicly promised and devoted all they had that way, as may be seen in the case of Ananias. Ours need not to do so, the Apostles gave no such Doctrine to the Churches of the Gentiles, but to love, relieve, and succour one another. If without this Communion you would have no apostolical Church, then the Apostles rightly planted no Churches, for they planted none as you mean in this Community of goods, when the Church and Gospel spread after the first beginnings, but Christians possessed houses, and goods, and servants of their own, or else what need Paul tell of collections? we hear of Tabitha, she had an house, riches, 1 Cor. 16. Acts 9. and gave great alms. We hear of the Saints at Antioch, making large contributions, to the believers at want in Jerusalem and Judea. Secondly, he knows yours walk irregularly. For whereas one should live in the East, he neglects Wife, Children, calling, and almsgiving in the West. Others of the West are almsgiving in the East: and whereas they are fitted by God for some mechannick callings, they must needs turn preachers, for they are learned in two great books, Ignorance and Impudence. God never calls these thus.— The rest that you talk and writ, is like a man in a dream, of some denying themselves riches, pleasures, honours, and of others that wrest the Scriptures; show us yours denying riches, pleasures, honours wholly and holily, they do neither this way. show us who wrest Scriptures more then yourself and yours. show us one Scripture wrested, and you shall have either satisfaction, or confession, or both. QUAERIE VIII. Whether they walk according to the rule, Whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, &c. when they leave houses, sell up their goods, and make their Creditors lose many and great debts, &c. The Antiquery. Whether dost not thou rather break that rule when thou wouldest enrage and stir up people and Magistrates, and all to swallow them up and make an end of them? The Reply to the Antiquaery. I shall quickly make an end of this, people and M●gistrates by the rule of Verity and Charity, may be stirred up to take heed of these, and hinder their spreading; and though not to make an end of the persons, or to swallow them up, yet to help to the making an end, and swallowing up of their errors, then to let them alone, and let them be swallowed down.— There is something else but of quaering and questioning, whether the Quaerer do not break the rule himself? I tell you in this he doth not, but I pass it, for it is a beggar very worthy of a pass. Then you come, But whether dost thou know any of them to make no conscience of defrauding their Creditors? I know but some of them saith our Antiquaerer, and I know they make Conscience to discharge their debts to their powers. You bring to my mind how Advocates agree at a breakfast, Correctio tollit id quod dictum est,& pro eo, quod magis idoneum videtur reponit. Voss. in Institut. Orator. l. 5. though they fall out in the Court. You say, dost thou know any? yes if you will, the Quaerer will help me, and you too with their Names, that leave their Houses and Callings for a long time, and the Creditors think of nothing but a whistle. But neither he, nor I intend against persons, but errors. Yet what needs this twixt you and me, when in next words you say, I know but some of them? I never found a piece of scholarship with you but this, and it is a corrupt piece of human rhetoric, though you mind it not, a figure with a dark word like Circumcellion, called Epanorthosis, when a man having said something, presently corrects himself in what he said, and makes some kind of minced confession of that he had renounced. Correctio est quae posteriori comitate prius positum emendat. Susenbrot. Schem. Rhet. I see all human learning is not cast off by you, you love a little rhetoric, Susenbrotus is no Ephesian conjuring book with you, and to be burnt. I pray you take notice how this cloth shrinks in the pressing. Dost thou know any? and then it follows, I know but some. Put some and any together, do those some well? No, they do not yet. But you say, I know they do make Conscience to discharge their debts to their power. It were well their Creditors knew it. What power can they have so to do it, when they neglect their Callings? If ever idleness and neglect of Callings, clothed a man with beggary and rags, these sad and ragged dayes much more will do it. If ever dayes called for honest providence and diligence, these do. It were well you could persuade the Creditors to be of your faith, for some of these say all is theirs, and they shall judge the world, and then let the Creditors look to themselves, they will judge them worthy to go without their debts. Remember Sir, I leave you well in the end of this Antiquaery, in plain confession. I see there is some ingenuity in you, you know something as well as the Quaerer, but you must needs speak something for your Client. QUAERIE IX. Whether this wisdom of theirs be from Heaven, which is followed with this charity to call all damned and children of the devil, whether they know them or know them not, that walk not their way? The Antiquaerie. I cannot find this to be true. But suppose some speak rashly, must this be clapped upon the backs of others that approve not of it? &c. The Reply to the Antiquaerie. If you find it not to be true, yet the several Congregations and Market places, where they have stood up and railed upon Ministers and people, it may be they never saw before will make it true. And for clapping it upon the backs of others, I must tell you, there is some reason to apply it to all, because first the most use this way. Secondly, because the chief and leaders of the others do it, as might be shown you by a score of their letters, all writ with sharpest vinegar to persons, many of them they know not. Then you bring in a salvo for this, that when mens words and deeds discover them what they are,( that is, no Quakers,) there is no want of charity, or heavenly wisdom, if the Spirit of God shall so in one of them pronounce it against another. I never knew before that the Spirit of God did pronounce rash, railing, and hellish language. You know not what spirit you are of. After this you bring three instances of Christ, Peter, and Paul, to justify the hellish language of your fellow-Creatures. Christ told the Jews, you are of your Father the devil. Peter told Simon Magus, thou art in the gull of bitterness. Paul said to Elias the Sorcerer, thou child of the devil, &c. How great is your uncharitableness and hellish maliciousness? Is every Christian walks not your way as bad as a Jew, and of his Father the devil, though he be never so holy and honest? Is every Christian man and Minister a Conjurer, as ill a Sinner as Eli was, because he cannot say your darkness is light? The Lord turn your spirits into a more soft and sanctified temper. Paul, and Peter, and Christ could see further then yours can, and could spy they were incurable wretches, for we here tell of a spirit of discerning. You tell us afterwards of letting tares alone, but here you allow of plucking up wheat,& not letting it alone, but blasting and blaspheming it. The Lord give you more right faith, and right charity too, you need both. QUAERE X. Whether they be not possessed with an higher and holier spirit then Paul, who gave Agrippa, Festus and Felix their Titles, and behaved himself submissively and modestly? these Thou and revile, and scornfully contemn all Superiors and Magistrates. The Antiquaerie. Whether are all Magistrates to be honoured alike? &c. The Reply to the Antiquaerie. The office is to be honoured in all, it is the Ordinance of God. The abuse of the office may be spoken of seasonably and soberly, but without railing, and cursed contempt. Psal. 15.4. You ask whether one that dwells in God, or as one would say with God, is not charactered to be a despiser of a vile person. For that, there is no taking away of civill honour from any man, since the Apostles commanded service and obedience to Heathen Rulers for the Lords sake, because power and authority was a Divine Ordinance. The Prophet doth not so much look at persons as manners, that we should despise, not soothe, humour and flatter them in unjust and sinful ways, but show our dislike and displeasure. That of the psalm is not so much of Magistrates, as of all other, or any other vicious and lewd men, of bad and naughty conversations; we should contemn them, that is, we should avoid their society, we should not make them men of our countenance, counsels, Company, our familiar friends; we should withdraw from them, and show our dislike of their ways, Ephes. 5. Paul when there was no danger of adoration, gave honourable terms to Agrippa, and called an Heathen Magistrate, Noble Festus. Rex curru paulo ante vectus,& Deorum à suis honoribus cultus. Q. Curt. lib. 5. said quid erat, quod hoc honore Hamanam afficere Mardochaeus Judaeus noluerit? Et opinor quoniam judaeis non licebat perlegem patriam hominem adorare. Deus. Observat. l. 12. c. 1●. and reprove them. Have no fellowship with the unfruitful works, &c. After this you tell us of Mordecaie not honouring Haman. You are sore straitned when you bring this, to prove yours may despise Magistrates. Alas for you, that you are fain to take this for a cover. do not you know Haman was a Heathen, a professed enemy of God, and a contriver to destroy the Church of God? Ours are no Heathens, no open Hamans, and yours are few of them Mordecaies. Ours tell us, they profess Christ and the gospel, and are set up to help the Church. again, do not yond know the honour that was given to Persian Princes, was more then civill, as the Jews thought, a kind of adoration, like to that they gave to God, and Mordecai was afraid to come near to Idolatry? Their Princes took a kind of Divine, and more then civill state on them, and zealous Jews were afraid of the Lords jealousy, giving that to another was due to him. You tell us Christ called Herod a Fox. Make our Magistrates appear as open enemies to Christ as Herod was, and let us know you are as holy, as wise, as good as Christ, and then you may have some more liberty this way. Presently you present us with Paul calling Ananias a whited wall, for striking him contrary to Law. You mind not, that Paul corrects himself presently for that, as a fault, and slip of his forward tongue, and confesses he spoken heedlessly that word, Act. 23.3, 4, 5. jerome attributes it to Pauls infirmity, lib. 3. contra Pel. And Osiand. in loc. If Paul speaks Ironically, it warrants not you. For High Priests after Christ was ascended into the Holy of holies in Heaven, were but whited walls, there needed no typical High Priests, the true High Priest being come, and having offered his perfect sacrifice. Our Magistrates take upon them to be High priests. When they said to him, Revilest thou Gods High Priest? He said, I wist not, brethren, that he was the High Priest, for it is written, thou shalt not speak evil of the Ruler of the people. I am of their judgement that make these words of Pauls, I wist not to be thus much, I considered not, I headed not, or I was overseen. I did it in hast. I am much more willing to take it so, then to make Paul speak Ironically, as if he said, I wist not, that I saw any thing of an High Priest, or lawful carriage of a Magistrate according to Gods command, that I should aclowledge him so; however be it thus, Paul might speak further then every private person may: Neither are our Magistrates brought in by the Roman power, as Ananias, neither are these that revile them Pauls. You bring in afterwards of Magistrates called Beasts, Dan. 7. and you tell us of a Scarlet coloured Beast, Revel. 17. I wonder you have not a Scarlet coloured face to blushy for making such gross comparisons, twixt Heathen Tyrants, Antichrist, and our Christian Magistrates. Your good woman at the Castle sent out a large paper, to make Judges, and Lawyers, and Ministers to be Beasts, and according to her name, she houts on them. Onely she tells the world that the Saints must now judge, for the son of God is come to judgement already. Antiquaer. The last thing I shall deal in, in this Antiquaerie is, that you defend your peoples language of Thouing the Magistrates; for so did Paul use Thou to all Magistrates. Then you say we speak Thou to God, and why not to Men? And if it should not be used in English, as well as in other Languages, why did not the Translators of the Bible put in You instead of Thou? Reply to Antiquaer. For the language of Thouing Magistrates and others, there were not so much fault to be found with it, but for these two things. First, that it seems to be taken up by you in a way of contempt, and singularity of uncourteousnesse, and banishing of a lawful urbanity and civill behaviour to be used to all men. For which you may I know, say you use it to all, and so it is done impartially. Yet that may be made a colour to excuse your surly language to strangers, because you use it to familiars: as the covetous churl excused his pinching dieting of his servants with an egg at a meal, because he took but one himself, but that was to promote his niggardise the better. Mat. 5. I could tell you that the Scripture of despiteful speech and rash anger, Raca, and reproaching our brother, is by some Divines that may be your Tutors and mine, interpnted a scornful and bitter Thouing, a man, when we would vilify him all we can. And it is well known you took not up this language, till you took up this way of proud singularity, to depart from the manners of the common faith. I am in some desire to know, whether according as you pretend it a general way of languaging it, you Thou your Fathers and Mothers or no? and if you do, how they look at these wanton chickens, that are so saucy with them? Secondly, I must tell you, that it is the common courteous language of the Country to You one, and there being no sin, 1 Pet. 3.8. Be pitiful, be Courteous. no not in appearance in it, I know not why you should refuse it. If you say the Translators in the Bible and other Countries used Thou, I answer, the custom of our country is to use You. With all which, you mind not other Countries and languages tempered their Thous with civility, Obvios quosque si non occurrit nomen Dominos salutamus. Seneca. John. 20.15: {αβγδ} usurparunt Graeci in Salutationibus. Desider. Heraldus in Animadvers. ad Mart. that you might know it was not of contempt, every one they spoken to that was a stranger they called Sir, as Mary called a poor Gard●er, as she thought, Sir, though it was Christ, but she knew it not. For the use of Thou to God in the Scriptures, and in our prayers, there is some reason, lest if we should use the plural number, it might be suspected we dreamed of more Gods then one; and therefore it was needful the singular number should be retained in our speaking to God, and of God. There is no necessity of speaking alike in all things to man, as we do to God: because I say Thou to my Heavenly Father, it doth not follow that I must say Thou to my earthly Father also. QUAERIE XI. Whether the Nation of England be not blind of both eyes, when they do not see the designs of Satan by these, and such like instruments to tread under foot both Magistracy and ministry? Antiquaer. If the Nation of England be blind of both eyes, then whether is it not high time to remove their teachers, who have got their moneys all this while, and communicated no light to them, but left them blind? Reply. You would fain teach me the Art of Railing, I know no Calling you follow else, but I will not learn it. Yes, there are in England that see with both eyes your designs and delusions. If they did not, holy Ministers might be faultless, that have offered them boxes of Divine eye salue. The use of the means is by the Ministers application, the blessing is of Gods application. I thought you had known a Text sounding thus, I have planted, and Apollos watered, 1 Cor. 3.6. Prov. 20.12. but God gives the increase. Or this, the hearing ear and the seeing eye the Lord hath made even both of them, both corporal and spiritual senses: but you are wilfully blind in this. You tell us it may be they have got light some other way, to see the design of God against corrupt Magistrates and blind guides. I wish they may see to purge the Land more, but your spectacles will give them a corrupt fight, for all Magistrates and Ministers must go dwell in the level by your advice. I wish, that which you call light be not mere darkness. QUAERIE XII. Whether this be not the high-way highly to offend God, and grieve Gods Spirit, to say, that standing naked on the top of a cross in a Market-place, a mans lying naked, and a womans coming to lie with him, is commanded them by God, and by the Spirit of God, that so they should do? Antiquaer. Whether Isaiahs being naked did grieve the spirit of God? Isa. 20. And if theirs be not of that nature, but their work be made to burn, then they shall suffer the loss of that work, 1 Cor. 3.15. But where hast thou any Scripture for crying out for punishment upon their bodies for being naked? And whereas thou speakest of a woman coming to lie with a naked man; whether wouldst thou not here insinuate a lie under ambiguity of words? Reply to antiquary. Seekers are like Africa, though they be in Europe, they always bring forth some Monsters. Here is a Monster of Ignorance and blasphemy. Of ignorance in alleging Isaiahs nakedness to cover your Clients nakedness. Of Blasphemy, in asking a foolish question, whether Isaiahs nakedness grieved Gods Spirit, and thereupon giving us to take on trust a simplo it may be, these naked Clients of yours had as good allowance from the Spirit of God. It is Blasphemy to say the Spirit of purity is the patron of uncleanness: or, that they had as good warrant as Esay. For Esayes nakedness, since I know you travel not far in Expositors, your own Spirit commonly being your large notes on the Bible. I shall lead you no further then Junius and Tremel. who will tell you this nakedness of Esayes was onely the putting off his shoes, and his large upper garment, which was his prophetical mantle, and then he was said to be naked, though he had an under and shorter garment, which shewed some nakedness of Thighs and legs. When the Jews cast off any outward ornaments, they used to wear ordinarily, they are said to be naked. David, when he laid by his royal upper rob and danced before the ark, Michal charges him with immodesty, for uncovering himself, and making himself too naked, 2 Sam. 6.14.& 20. and yet it is well seen there, that he was not altogether uncovered, for he was girded with a linen Ephod. Exod. 32.25. The people in Exodus that contributed their golden earrings to the making of the golden calf, are said to be naked, for Aaron had made them naked to their shane. Now their nakedness was this, first they were bereaved of their golden Ornaments. Secondly, by their golden Idolatry. A consequence of it was this, they were made naked and stripped at present of Gods favour and pleasure, he finding them in Idolatry. As for your Blasphemous collation of Esayes being commanded by the Spirit,( and therefore his nakedness was not likely to grieve the Spirit) with the nakedness of yours, I pray you in time learn to keep your heart from entertaining such thoughts as that all the extravagancies of yours come out with Heavens privilegio as well as the Prophets and beest Seers of God. I shall grant you these two things for yours, First, that they did not make themselves naked but by a Spirit. Secondly, That notwithstanding their nakedness grieves the Spirit. I believe the nakedness we speak of in yours, was from a spirit, a spirit of delusion, Satan setting them on: a spirit of corruption, their own dark and corrupt hearts prompting them to such immodesties; which light of nature would lend them a restraint for. And secondly, judge you whether all uncleanness in the very appearance doth not grieve the spirit of God: You come afterwards with an[ If] their nakedness be not of that nature, their work shall burn. Still Etanorthosis and secret confessions are in fashion with you. Were it not better for them to turn from such pranks, then to do that which must burn afterwards, and they be ashamed of it? Besides, their works burning hereafter, neither you nor I can safely pass our words, that their hearts are freed from burning lust here in these acts of theirs. 1. For naked man and naked womans coming to him, you ask two things, whether there be any Scripture to punish their bodies for nakedness? 2. Whether the Quaerer have not some ambiguous meaning and sense lye in it? For punishment, the Quaerer mentions none, but asks if it be not the high way to offend Gods spirit; yet since your mind runs all on punishment, I pray whether do not many Scriptures tell you of Gods prohibitions of lusts, and of mens lying with other mens wives, or with single women, to whom they are not married, with threatenings of wrath? For a lye under ambiguity of words, you may frame in your thoughts what you please, your Adam and Eve without any ambiguity, did show nakedness and come one to another, and it is too well known. QUAERE XIII. Whether did Paul or this people say right, when Paul said, The works of the flesh were adultery, Fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness; and yet t●ey say, they are fruits of the spirit, and the power of God urges them to them? The Antiquaerie. Where, or when didst thou hear any of them say, that Adultery, Fornication, Uncleanenesse, &c. were the fruits of the spirit? or which of them have been urged to these things? Reply to the Antiquaery. Some of them have been heard to say so; your man in prison that lay naked some dayes, and the naked woman came to him, answered publicly at the Assizes, the power of God was upon him, he was commanded to do it. O the patience of God! God is a righteous Judge, strong and patient, and God is provoked ●verie day. The man they say, is since dead, and so no more of him; his Eve is alive yet. ask no more lest your ears tingle to hear, and your eyes glow to red the story of Wighton, where two Goats of that herd met together, a man and woman, he having a wife elsewhere, yet she at night comes from another bed to his, being of her transing sect, and bids him open to her, for the Father had sent her. He did so, till the man his bedfellow rose, and the shameful immodesty was discovered. This is no lye in ambiguity of words, but is to be called into question, as being fallen under the Magistrates cognisance, a known thing. The Father sent her, so he did; the Father of uncleanness, and impurity. Bullinger Advers. Anabapt. l. 2. c. 2.& 3. This brings to my mind, that which holy Bullinger reports of one sort of Anabaptists, in their country, that were called Liberi, the free ones, they held( saith he) community of wives, as well as of goods; that women ought to be whores, and unclean, and prostitute their chastity, for so they should become greater in the kingdom of Heaven then honest and chased matrons, because Christ hath said, I know one said to me, that if he saw a mo●e spiritual beauty in a woman then in his wife, shee was nothing to him in comparison of the other. His meaning made good that which is much talked on the formality of marriage when the fancy doth another. the Publicans and Harlots go into the kingdom of Heaven before Justiciaries, and other more honest persons. They held that being regenerate and rebaptized, they could not sin, it was the flesh onely that sinned, and not they. And when they committed any lewdness or wickedness, they used to say, this was the will of the Father. And they had an invention to call their lying with whom they would, spiritual Marriages; a rare way to save women, to persuade them to be unclean. I could show you an agreement of our Quakers to those in divers of these things, and that they have been heard to talk of being married in the Spirit to those that were not their Husbands or Wives. But this will be enough to meet with their Lawyer, and non-suit him for all his pleadings, when he sees an woeful agreement betwixt his and other blinded wretches of old, both in language and practices. What need I tell you, that according to their judgement, all this nakedness and lying together may be without lust? it was Adam and Eve in their innocency, they were naked, and were not ashamed. These are perfect souls indeed, that can lay fire and gun-powder together to touch one another, and yet they shall not burn. Sure it may be the devil is reviving the invention of Vastalla, a rich and noble widow of old at milan in italy, Cael. second. Cur. in pasq. Ecstatico. who set up a sect of men and women that should imitate Adam and Eve in their purity. Among other practices of that sect this was one, their Adam, and Eve, their Man and Woman were to lye naked in bed together, and if all the night long they could be found to abide without thinking, saying, or doing any thing about tasting of the forbidden fruit, then they were judged to be innocent, and become Angels, and to live the life of God: and it was diligently to be sought into what they had done; but if it were found otherwise, that they had desired and tasted forbidden fruit, and that Eve became a mother after ten moneths, they were excommunicate and cast out of Vastalla's Paradise, and put away with shane from them, condemned to labour and travel in the world. And if you cast off your wanton wag and wench for their pranks at Wighton, and be ashamed of them, as well you may be ashamed of their principles also, But for shortness sake I could tell of more naked ones. which belong to and agree with the principles of the rest; for such principles will naturally beget more of these practices. If they lye together, they will prove the kindred of fornication and uncleanness; you need not much pled for this, since in your reply to the 21. Quaere, wee have your confession, crying guilty for two, I say three, one naked on the Market cross at Kirbie-Moores side, and two others lying naked, of which one suffers imprisonment, as you aclowledge, for owning that action to be of God. This obscaenity of Wighton indeed fell out since, so that you have two more. QUAERE XIV. Whether this be not the ready path to atheism, to make nothing of the outward command of the Word, Magistrates, Ministers, but onely to harken to what is within one, and if the devil and Spirit of delusion be there, it must be counted the voice of God? Antiquaerie. Whether the Spirit that speaks in thee, be not a lying spirit, in seeking to make men believe they make nothing of the outward command of the Word, when as their lives and words come nearest to the outward Rule of any thou canst set before them? &c. Reply. For the Quaerers Lying Spirit, if yours be a true Spirit, he is in a good part acquitted, because you have confessed nakedness discovered, and obscaenity, and that he judges, so I, is a making nothing of the outward command of the Word, which bids wee should abstain from all appearance of evil, and provide things honest in the sight of all men— You come on fiercely, saying, their lives and words come nearest the outward Rule of any thou canst set before them. Now the Lord teach you to put a cork in that mouth, that dare vent and poure out such stuff: Are their lives nearest to the Rule of the word, who delight to raise tumults in the peaceable gathering together of Saints? Is this near to the outward Rule, to discover nakedness and obscaenity, which would make civill and quiet Gentiles blushy? Remember what has been said before, and will be proved, and then your lavish lips and pen will fully be reproved for fathering false and profane things upon a Gospel-conversation. Antiqu. Then like Alexander the Coppersmith, you give out false and copper language against the Preachers of the Gospel, saying, that they make preaching a trade to got money by, make merchandise of the word, they are hirelings of men, rather then Ministers of Christ. To this I shall answer you hereafter, when the spirit of railing comes afresh upon you again, and for present leave you among the hirelings of Satan, whom he hath hired to blaspheme the Gospel of Christ, and the minstery thereof. Antiqu. As to Magistrates, wherein are they against the just commands of Magistrates? I will answer you: The Magistrates should be keepers of peace and order, your people will know none, but transgress against the end of Magistracy, our living a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty. They are against the observing of the Lords day, and other extraordinary dayes of public worship, as nothing appertaining to them, though the Magistrates office is to see them observed. And for their goodly reckoning of Magistrates, we have heard before of your calling them Beasts, that is, all such as are not for you. One of your Libertine crew traveling last public Fast in October, and his Beast he rid on being taken till he paid his Fine for breach of the Parliaments Ordinance, he answered he knew no laws, nor Rule upon earth, but the word of God, and God ruler of all. In this he knew not the word of God; which saith, Let every souls be subject, &c. The plea and defence for Ministers shall be made afterwards at the 26. Quaere and Antiquaerie. QUAERE XV. Whether those Magistrates be not most faithful friends to their Country and office, that do most labour to restrain their riots and tumults, that we may led a quiet life in all godliness and honesty? Antiquaerie. Whether are these people, who quietly pass to and fro, or an heady people gathered together to ston and beat them the Rioters? And whether is not he, who encourages that brutish behaviour amongst the people, worthy to be accounted the head of the Ryoters? &c. Reply. Concerning this peoples passing to and fro quietly, we have heard there is little to that purpose, and for others which you suppose ours gathering together to ston and beat them if any prove so unorderly; neither doth the Quaerer, nor this replier go about to justify them. But the desire is, all may be done legally and orderly: yourself know they have had the benefit of the Sessions, where there has been colour or appearance of unlawful setting upon them, though they first provoked them by undue actions. As rioting is punished in your people, so let riotous usage be punished in ours: no sober Christian that I know will be an Advocate for any that proceed against yours without the bounds of Law and Gospel; the rest is a clawing of yours for innocent and harmless, and a railing on all others for riotous assaulters that will not walk as they do. That above will serve reason, nothing will stop railing. QUERE XVI. Whether a quiet and honest Papist be not a Saint in comparison of these, though both of them be Idolaters, the one worshipping the fancy of Rome, the other the fancy of his brain? Reply. Much do I wonder you make no Reply to this, but onely to the 17. Quaere, and this onely of all the rest is omitted. certainly, for any thing I can see, there is a great deal of agreement betwixt these and Papists; Papists were not mentioned for any credit of their faith, but for quietness and orderlinesse in the point of their conversation, in which they are far more harmless then yours. 1. Is it omitted because you would have every one walk according to their own light, whether it be a Roman candle, which is but a snuff, or a Jerusalems light? 2. Or is it because yours and they go the same way, and think to make your Christ, Justification, and Salvation out of your own Regeneration, Mortification, denial of the world, good works? 3. In all the writings I have seen, this of yours, many letters of theirs, there is scarce a word of salvation by Christ, his blood, merits, sufferings, but all runs upon new-birth, self-denial, light within one, Christ in a man, and Christ without apprehended by faith to be our sole righteousness, is not at all mentioned by any of yours. If this be not a kind of Popery, a faire gate of Rome, I am deceived, and so are others too; and take heed some Roman spirits do not led on these poor souls, and deceive them; take heed there be not a Roman fox to led and guide your Lambs. QUAERIE XVII. Whether the toleration of these be not more intolerable then the walking about, and toleration of Bedlamers and frantic people, since these cannot persuade others to be mad; but by spiritual delusions the other draw our wives and children all over the land to spiritual madness? Antiqu. Reply. I love not to render railing for railing. Reply to Antiqu. Truly you do not here, but render railing being not railed on, and presently you set upon it, as if you had commenced M. of that black Art, and therefore I shall leave the rest, it being nothing but railing and reviling, and no way answering the Quaere itself. QUAERE XVIII. Whether there be not a great deal of ignorance and blindness in the Nation, when the people that do not act those things, do yet speak well and favourably of the obscaenity, immodesty, disorders, irregularity of these wandring stars? Antiquaerie. What obscaenity, immodesty, &c. is that which thou clappest upon the necks of all this people? Is it that nakedness thou spokest of before? If it be, what canst thou do with it, but let it rest till the day of trial, which shall discover every mans work of what sort it is? Reply. Well said, and like a catholic moderator, let it rest till the day of trial. Not so Sir, there is another saith otherwise, Reprove them sharply, Tit. 1. Ephes. 5. that they may be sound in the faith; have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but reprove them rather. What a faire end you make of all? O that Absalom were a Magistrate, or Prince in Israel, he would do all men right. If one came and complained to him, one hath drawn away my Wife, and she follows another: one hath seduced my onely son or Daughter; one hath got my Sister with child, another hath pulled the Minister out of his Pulpit, and when he was preaching, called him hireling, wolf, sorcerer, deceiver, false teacher, &c. another called all the Magistrates masters of bribes, &c. What shall be said of this? our complete Justice here would set all right in a few words. Go home, let them alone, let every one follow the light that is within them, let all alone to the day of trial; here is Justice indeed. 'tis pity you gave not the Parliament directions for the Copy of an Oath, to Justices of Peace: What a common wit you have to constitute a Common-wealth? Antiquaerie. Then you bring us in the harmless dealings of yours, meeting without disorder to speak to one another, and edify one another in love, crying out against sin in the open streets, going into Synagogues, and crying down Parish hirelings for deceivers and seducers. Reply. This is pretty orderly indeed, and you say, though we count it disorder, yet it was once order; for Paul used to reason in the Synagogues, Acts 17.2. Reasoning you say is not a set oration of one alone, but others to speak as well as he. It is said, Paul for three Sabbath daies reasoned with them out of the Scriptures, that is, for three Sabbath dayes he preached unto them Jesus Christ& he proved him to be the Christ by arguments and reasons drawn out of the Scriptures, which is the Scriptures of the Law and Prophets applied to Christ. You have after in the third verse, that he was opening, and alleging, that Christ must needs have suffered and rise again. This reasoning of his was preaching, for it was alleging Scriptures, and opening, that is, expounding the true meaning of them: we see afterwards there were lewd fellowes of the base sort that railed against him in the City, and raised an uproar: we hear of none of their reasonings in the Synagogue, but of their rising and railing in the City. If any of yours be preachers, as Paul was, and will preach faithfully the word of God, you may reason and open the Scriptures: but if you condemn all teaching in any but yours, and true teaching of Jesus Christ, and have no orderly nor sober way of discoursing with teachers after their business, but both in and after men and women cry out deceivers, dogs, hirelings, and why suffer you them? here is neither rhyme nor reason, but plain Rabshakisme and open railing, as if they meant to act the parts of dogs and swine, tearing and rending. For your wandring stars applied to Ministers, rather than to yours, who have no certain settled abiding place in earth where to lay their heads, whereas Ministers, you say, wander from truth of Scriptures, I leave you to reviling and wandering, and wandering and reviling. No, the fault of Ministers with you is, they will not wander up and down, but desire to shine in their own orbs with the light of truth: yours you say have no settled habitation, therefore me thinks this proves them wanderers; why have they not settled habitations? They had Callings, Wives, Husbands, Parents, Children, Masters, Servants, Friends, why wander they abroad, and run from them, and from their good friend the truth? 1. Wandering stars are false teachers, called by the Apostle judas, that are like the Planets, which are carried with another motion then other stars; so are yours, they will not be guided by the orderly light of the truth, but their own brains are their Scriptures. 2. Or Wandring Stars are those that seem to strike and glide aside in the heavens, which we commonly call running or falling stars. These are not stars indeed, but a running hot inflammation in a dry air: so these seem to shine with a form of light and holinesse; but alas, this makes them no stars, this is but an inflammation of deceived spirits; they are dark and want true light in them. 3. Or lastly, they are called Wandering stars, because they deceive and led into wanderings and errors, and if yours do not deceive, and are deceived, love to wander, and cause others to wander, let truth judge. QUAERIE XIX. Whether this be not strange Divinity, or strong Vanity rather, that they may leave Callings, be obscene, revile, be disobedient, care neither for Order, nor Office; yet they sin not, but are perfect? Antiquaery. Why dost thou lie to say they leave their Callings? And if some of them be called from their outward callings, and be sent forth by the Lord to Minister the word unto others, is not this a cleaving to that Calling to which they are called? Reply. Who calls men and women now to leave their outward Callings? what voice of God called your men from the plough, your women from the distaff to Minister the word to others? A little calling will serve them to leave their Callings. do not you know the Spirit of God saith, let every man abide in that Calling, that is, that outward Calling of Master, Servant, &c. wherein the Lord hath set him? He is not to think that his spiritual Calling doth abolish and nullify his civill Calling. 1 Cor. 7. When Christ calls any by his grace to himself, he doth not call him from his office and condition of civill exercise wherein he was. But why trouble I myself about this, since the Apostle is so plain? Presently you rage, and your tongue is so hot, or your stomach that fills your pen, that you have need of a sober Julep to cool you, and bring you acquainted with Christian moderation. For then you poure it out, that Ministers are afraid of discovering their nakedness, and therefore would have them locked up in callings, prisons, any where to be rid of them. When Ministers do not according to the gospel let them hear of it, but truly, soberly, with a spirit of Christian reproof, to amend, not to enrage them.— You excuse them, they do not revile, no more then Christ in calling pharisees, blind guides, Hypocrites, painted sepulchres. For obscaenity and such like, you never heard an immodest word come out of their mouths. But you have heard of immodest actions, lying together as above, nakedness, &c. and you were fain to be their botcher, to make up some poor covers for their nakedness. For Lording it over their Consciences that you speak of, it needs not. Romans 14. If they would have their faith to themselves, none would trouble them, but when their fire goes out of their own hearth to the burning up of other houses, to seduce, beguile and the like, to restrain the public spreading of poisonous infections, is no Lording it over the Conscience. To that of being perfect and without sin, you say this: I think they are nearer to that condition then thou art who revilest them. I thank you Sir, in behalf of the Quaeter, he expected no less, when he heard who was the Judge. You seem to allow their bragging of perfection, and being without sin, what need a man to go to Heaven for perfection, since he may have it here at their sh●ps? So the Familists of old said, they were as perfect as Adam and Eve, and we may believe them, as perfect and without sin, as Adam in the day of his fall, stripped of the image of God, perfectly corrupt, and defiled in all powers both of soul and body. QUAERIE XX. Whether this people have not light upon some better Scripture then Christ hath given us, which tells them, that perfect iniquity, is perfect sanctity? Antiquaer. I wonder thou canst invent such a lie against thaem, wilt thou not cease to add lie to lie? who ever heard such a tenant come out of their mouths? or how can any such thing be gathered from their lives, when as they abhor the works of darkness more then any? Reply. They had need be excellent, for your Trumpet blows loud, and proclaims them with great piety and praise. Some flowers of your rhetoric we have all along, of the Quaerers lying and adding lye to lye, these make well to the filling up of your book. To prove it a lye, you say, who ever heard such a tenant come out of their mouths? Are you Malchus? who cut off your ear? Though you have it not immediately from their mouths, yet you have heard what you know will be proved to be very true, that a woman lying with another womans husband said the Father had sent her. First now spell, and then put together, and it will come to as much as this, that perfect iniquity is perfect sanctity. For if these fleshly lusts be iniquity( as I think they are) and yet it is the doing of the will of the Father, it is perfect sanctity if it were so: Remember for the rest your Adam and Eve. Antiqu. At length you blow your Trumpet till your cheeks swell again, in behalf of this people, for their praise. They abhor works of darkness more then any; they are free of swearing, drunkenness, reveling, banqueting, gluttony, sports, excess, pride, covetousness, uncleanness, foolish talking, jesting, suits, strife, quarreling, defraudings and over-reaching. If a man should say to me, take this vessel, here is no rats-bane, spider, &c. and reckon up a great many poisonous things, it were no great commendation if there were other as poisonous things that are not mentioned at all, as toads, vipers, asps, adders, henbane, &c. Thus here you tell us they are not entertainers of such and such vices, but they have as bad and worse: they follow not drunkenness, but they are drunk with spiritual pride, to think themselves as high in prophesy and inspiration, as Moses, Esay, or Paul. I could give you a note of particulars, that they are evidently guilty of, and will be judged works of darkness and fruits of the flesh. 1. As evil speaking, they say the devil is in every one that agrees not with them. 2. Clamours, and cryings out in quiet Assemblies, with all bitter revilings, 3. Busibodinesse in other mens matters, while all lies at six and sevens at home. 4. Defrauding of Creditours, by impoverishing themselves through wandering abroad. 5. Strife and quarrelings are ordinary with them, if they see but the face of one is not theirs. 6. Blaspheming of the Ordinances of God, and all outward teachings. 7. 8. 9. Envy, heresy, conceit of perfection, and some other high things, which will fall as low as works of darkness. I may do you the kindness a little below to let you know a little more. QUAERE XXI. Whether when they will be naked, deny meat for some dayes, and use some other strange pranks, they go not both against light of nature and light of Scripture? Antiquaerie. Concerning nakedness, why dost thou mention it, as if they were all accustomend to be so? when as thou canst produce but two persons, who were so acted, and one of them suffers imprisonment for owning that action to be of God: And how knowest thou but God may make them signs as he did Isaiah, to discover thine and others nakedness? &c. Reply. Sir, If you please we will set these Coleworts by, because they have been twice boiled and set on the table: besides we have your confession; yet if you harken but to some poor ignorant, seduced ones in the Dales, there are many may be heard of that did run stark naked upon supposition and presumption of regained Paradisiacall purity. After you argue à mirabili, wondering any will writ of their abstaining from meat certain dayes, when Scripture speaks so much of Saints fastings, Moses and Christ forty dayes a piece, Esther three dayes, Ninevites, David, Daniel, Ezra, Johns Disciples, Paul, our Saviours giving rules for fasting, Mat. 6.16. Fault is not found for their fasting, but because it is mere fasting without praying, preaching, meditating. Alas, the Devils fast always, but they pray not; we hear of yours fasting, but nothing of their praying, or any devout humbling before the Lord, and confessing of sins. Fasting is a lean and poor thing, unless Prayer and Devotion fatten it. The propounding of Moses and Christs 40. dayes fast, is idle, and to no purpose, since they were extraordinary and miraculous, altogether beyond Rule. Our Saviour gives no Rules for fasting without praying and other acts of Humble Devotion and seeking God, and therefore it must be done in secret, yours fast and do it openly, and in imitation of Moses and Christ, thinking to be miraculously fed from Heaven, and so tempt God. Yea they prefer these outward acts of bodily exercise before faith in Jesus Christ. As for other strange pranks,( you say) I know not what they are, and nothing being mentioned, I can say nothing of them. You shall have something mentioned further, a man beyond Malton, If you would know more, and that true too; a woman at Cave boasting of turning water into wine, and casting out Devils, and that her Lord bad her; she affirming it done, others denying it done, she said her Lord had put a lye upon her, and she presently fell mad. he need not be name, caused his Oven to be heated and shut up with onely air and heat in it, and persuaded his wife at the time of drawing, she should find it full of meate. This is miraculous working, marvelous ignorance, and marvelous tempting of God; for he and she found nothing but their own follies and empty conceits. This is both against light of Nature and Scripture, to look for blessings to arise without means and helps, and to think God shall attend to work marvells at the desire of every fanciful heart. QUAERE XXII. Whether it be a good thing to maintain without any limitation, or bounds, we have fought for our liberty, and we will have our liberty? Antiquaerie. How can they maintain this without any bounds, when they cannot use the sword to procure it, being kept within the bounds of peace voluntarily? And is it unreasonable for them to desire as free born Inhabitants of England, an harmless and innocent liberty, especially seeing some of them have fought for their liberty, as well as other men? Reply. You shall not much be meddled with here. The Quaere I suppose is propounded upon this ground, that some think they may take liberty, nay licence to do any thing, because it has been fought for; liberty, an holy, confined liberty has been fought for, but no licentious liberty and boundless for any to do what they will. For voluntary abiding within bounds you say it, we see it not, but as we see the mastiff in the chain, biting, snarling, struggling to be out of it. The rest needs not any thing to be said to it, a liberty of freeborn English being granted to all, so that it be liberty that Law and gospel, Reason and Christian Religion sets out. QUAERE XXIII. Whether the Lord be more displeased, or the devil more pleased with these practices and principles, vented, spread, increased? Antiquaerie. The Lord is in his servants, the devil is in his servants, &c. Reply. The sum of your Antiquaerie is conjuring as well as you can to raise up the devil to go amongst all them, and abide with them, that will not abide on the Quakers side: and for yours, God is among them, they are harmless, innocent lambs, Doves, little Ones, Babes in Christ. And yet for all this, these Babes, Doves, little Ones, lambs, they cry and make a noise, their voice is heard in the streets and markets, and like the voice of Dragons, and roarings, and yellings, as if they were greater beasts. If they be lambs, they are very unlike the lamb of God. QUAERE XXIV. Whether it concerns not the whole country, to move the Magistrates, or Parliament, or both; timely to provide some remedy, left the whole country be swallowed up by Divine permission in tumults, madness, disorders, and anarchical licentiousness? Antiquaer. Whether the whole Country, or onely the Priests, are in danger to be swallowed up by these people? If it be done by Divine permission, how canst thou, or any else, set themselves against it without danger? Reply. Sure the Country is in danger, when the pit of errors opens the mouth so wide to be swallowed up. As for these you call Priests, the Lord, whose ambassadors they are, being faithful will protect them. You come with this onset, If it be by Divine permission, how canst thou, or any body else, set themselves against it without danger? Yes, there is no danger to set ourselves by holy and commanded ways and means against those, which may afterwards appear to be Divine permission. Acts 4.28. The Jews, and Pilat, and the rest, did that in crucifying of Christ, which the hand of the council of God determined before to be done, and yet they were sinful and cruel in it; for the councils and permissions of God put no force upon the wills of men, Ad peccandum non adjuvamur à Deo, said quod à Deo nos avertimus, nostrum est,& haec est voluntas mala. Aug. de peccat. merit. l. 2. c. 5. but they may freely act, and set themselves to act other ways. The permission of God is not to be understood as the permissions of Tyrants, whose wills help and approve the wickedness of men. God permits many things which he will punish, we are to look at his preception and command, that is to rule us, and we are to bend that way, what ever his permissions be. The decrees and permissions of God do not take away but preserve the liberty and order of nature, and the free manner of actings instituted by God in the second causes, Divine permission doth not lessen the guilt of our sinful Commissions. Though the offence must come, yet woe be to him by w●om the offence cometh. imposing no necessity and force upon them. By your kind of arguing Judas, Pilate, Scribes did well in crucifying Christ, for they did as they were acted by Divine permission. I doubt all the wretched practices of yours, though crooked, are fathered upon the streight decrees, councells, and permissions of God, and so their sins shall be excused, and his council accused. By this I see you have very little Divinity: Gods permissions are secret, his commands are open; I am to do and forbear to do according to his commands, let his permissions secret be what they will. Secret things belong to the Lord, but revealed things to us and our children. If I act according to Gods open word and commands, it matters not what his permissions be; I shall be accepted, because I look at the known will of God: Judas had done better, though it was Gods permission to resist thoughts and purposes of betraying his Lord. What follows is of your crying out of peoples furiousness, in beating with clubs and cudgels, stoning, casting dirt, ducking into water such as move not an hand against them, nor seek revenge upon her for such cruelties, though by Law they might, for which there is answer ready. I never knew any of these things done in a small measure, but yours sought the full extremity of law, though yours gave the first onsets and provocations: when law is used against them, they cry out on it; when they would make use of it, they apply themselves earnestly to it. If you say ours are faulty in doing any thing unjustly and tumultously, so grant I, and they that do it, let them suffer for it. QUAERE XXV. Whether the men of Malton that burnt their goods, because they might bee abased by pride; had not better council, even from Iudas, to sell them and give the price to the poor, whereas the fire devoured their goods and charity? Antiquaer. Whether thou and Judas be not both of one counsel, in advising to sell their precious things for the use of the poor? And whether is counsel of Judas and thine better to be followed in this case, then the practise of Moses, who burned the golden calf in the fire. Exod. 32.20. and the practise of Hezekiah, who did the like with the brazen serpent: and of them in the Acts, Acts 19.19. who burned their books amounting to 50000. pieces of silver? Reply. Sir, you had need to use your memory sometimes, for it proves a false Register ever and anon. Judas and the Quaerer, you say, advice to sell their precious things for the poor, and yet in the next lines you compare these precious things to the golden calf, brazen Serpent, and conjuring books; you count these no precious things. Verily I think with the Quaeter they had done more good, if Judas had been of their council, erroneous spirits of old were complained on, as De arena resticulas nectentes. Irenae. advers. Valen. lib. 2. c. 20. though I take him to have been no good Lawyer, nor gospeler; and so have given either the things, or value to the poor. What Devotion, what Charity was there to feed the fire with them? It had been more precious Devotion, to have devoted these precious things for good to some: I have oft heard of a rope of sand, at length you make one, and compare these fellowes burning of their ribbons and silk, I know not whether lace too; with Moses burning the melted calf, Hezekiah breaking the brazen Serpent, and the burning of the Ephesian conjuring Books in the Acts. I hope you are awake, but you talk as in a dream. Compare you ribbons to the melted calf, Serpent, conjuring Books, that were directly used for idolatry, and Demonolatrie? O all you Mercers and of the like Trades, here is one will complain of you all to the Parliament, for selling melted Calves and conjuring Books. No marvel if they burnt them that were such dangerous things. I see Scriptures are ordinarily prest souldiers to fight for your fancies. I know not what to say to this ignorance and folly, 'tis best to leave you in your pleasant humour, that have found Scriptures to burn fine commodities under the notion of conjuring books. Meat, drink, clothes, Horses, Dogs, Riches, all may be abused by pride and wantonness; and therefore all must be burned,( covetousness and Idolatry;) the Advocate pleads it, they are conjuring books. But Good Sir, why do your Clients recant and sell of these kind of goods again? I beseech you sand them word to quit themselves quiter of these melted Calves, and brazen Serpents, or else you will pled no more for them. QUAERIE XXVI. Whether any sober and pious souls, well grounded in, and cleaving to the word, can easily fall into these brain calentures, and dotages? And whether it be a thing feigned and put upon them, or that the Judges and Assizes can witness it? Antiquaerie. I may let the former part of the Quaere stand good against thy own self without altering one word. Reply. If you let the former part stand, it will not stand long, but it will fall towards your Clients. For the last part, you say, what is it the Judges and Country can witness against them? any thing but what they openly confess and stand for, even unto suffering. It is not enough to suffer, but we must look to the cause of our sufferings: The Apostle bids, let none of you suffer as an evil doer, 1 Pet. 4.15. or as a busy body in other mens matters. A man may boldly make confession of that which may be his confusion. ministry of England is much beholding to you, for in the end you say, your peoples fault is this, they ascribe Honour to God onely, and not to Men: they affirmed all the Priests of England, who preach for hire, are thieves and Robbers. Here I have writ as you did, thieves and Robbers, with a great thief and a great Robber, because I know you take them to be great thieves and great Robbers. For ought that I can see, they cannot rob you of much Divinity, Religion, or Charity: you are a Seeker, and they may go seek for it, and find little in you. One would verily think, you are some Renegade Minister, have left your way, and therefore persecutes with your tongue all of that way. I have often heard it said, pardon a little Latin, Apostata est persecutor sui ordinis: If the Doctrine be good, the Application may lodge with the Advocate. But Good friend, why Thieves and Robbers are they? just as Physitians are, thieves and Robbers that rob us of our diseases; so the Ministers are sent by God to rob the world of their ignorance, darkness, error, unbelief, the diseases of mens souls. By this it should appear they are good thieves, as the repenting thief on the cross was called a good thief: O but they preach for hire, they are hirelings. You have told us this oft enough, I could speak much for the ministry, and I tell you truly, I do verily think the devil uses abundance of men and women now as his bellows, to blow with his own breath; you speak in this the very language of Hell: ●f the devil were on earth audibly and visibly to pled, he would pled as you do against Gospel, and Ministers. All the world troubles him not so much as the faithful Preachers of the Gospel: you tell of Hirelings, take heed you be not one of his Balaams, whom he hath hired to curse and revile Israles ministery: Have you no better names for them? Are they not the ambassadors of Christ, under-stewards in his House to give his family th●ir portion in due season? The Holy spirit, and Holy writings would have taught you to give them more honour. Now there is nothing comes from you but, Out upon them Hirelings: yet your people in their letters have given them company, for they writ that the Judges, Lawyers, Magistrates, do all for hire and bribes also. You would have Ministers( you said before) to be content with Christs allowance: Friend I tell you, Christs allowance is hire and maintenance, though you take it to be an odious word. Did not our Saviour bid his Disciples take relief where they came, with this reason, For the labourer is worthy of his hire? What will you make them? If they were Soldiers, Luke 10.7. you would allow them pay, Who goeth a warfare any time at his own charges? 1 Cor. 9. They are the good Soldiers of Jesus Christ, they are in his spiritual warfare. If they were Shepherds, they would be allowed for keeping the flock of perishing sheep; Who feedeth a flock, and eateth not of the milk of the flock? Mens souls are the Lords sheep, and these watch for their souls, Hebrews 13. immortal sheep, immortal souls: none grutches, rightly minded, assessments for Soldiers pay, none for Shepherds wages; onely Ministers must be termed Hirelings, because mens souls are counted base: yet again I ask you, will not you use them as well as Soldiers, as well as Shepherds? How would you have them used? As beasts? 1 Cor. 9.9, 10. I know you would, for you called them dogs and wolves. Well, let them be used like beasts then, and they must have maintenance; for it is written in the Law of Moses, Thou shalt not muzzle the mouth of the ox that treadeth out the corn: Doth God take care for Oxen? Or saith he it altogether, saith Paul, for our sakes: for our sakes no doubt is it written, That he that plongheth should plough in hope, and he that thresheth in hope, should be partaker of his hope. Surely Satan muzzles both the Reason and Religion of such as you, that you cannot speak sense, but bark and bluster with railings and revilings, when you speak of the ministers of the Gospel: you do not onely judge them, but you make yourselves a Judge of the Law. Verily the Lord will look upon his faithful Ministers, 2 Sam. 16.12. and he will requited good for your cursing this day, as David said of the foreman of your Tribe, cursing Shimei. QUAERE XXVII. Whether they say true, when they say they are the prophet Isaiah, jeremiah, Ezekiel, &c. and therefore they may go naked, and do what they will? Or do they not maintain some transmigration of souls of others long since upon earth into their bodies? And if they have Isaiahs soul, what becomes of their own soul? Antiquaerie. It is a tedious work for me to answer to all frivolous queries; nevertheless lest thou shouldst be wise in thy own conceit, tell me, whether Johns coming in the spirit and power of Elias, held forth a transmigration of souls? And if it did, what became of Johns soul? clear but this, and thou mayst easily answer thyself. Reply. Me thinks it should be no tedious work to you to answer the Quaeres, for you do it as easily and idly as may be. But O the great Knot that calls for a great wedge to rend it: John came in the spirit of Elias, in the spirit of his zeal, not with the same spirit and soul, therefore there is not to be any thoughts of any transmigrations. Sir, I have your meaning, Audax& impudens res est anima quae inani acre callescit. Irenae. Advers. Valentin. Haeres. l. 1. c. 9. yours in their bold actions come in the spirit of Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel, &c. as John did in the spirit of Elias: we believe the last, because Christ told us so, but who are you that tells us covertly the first, that yours come in the spirit of the Prophets? we see nothing of spirit or practise to yours that is like to Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel, &c. but as an Artichoke is like an Oyster, well worth midsummer conceits: the man conceited he was sent as Isaiah, and therefore he puts off his clothes and stands on top of the market cross. If the Scripture had told us half so much of yours as it hath told us of John and Elias, we might have given you some hearing; you know for the one we have Divine writings, for yours, coming in the spirits of the Prophets, we have vain janglings; yet that which I told you of transmigrations, is a patch of these times of errors, or else the resurrection of the prophets. The Adorers of John Robins,( and you with yours are very fit to be such) tell us they meet with the Apostles and Prophets upon the earth every day; and I suppose your Transers heads are full of Jolly Robins too, for they would make us believe they are Prophets, and more then Prophets too: So they are, for they are false Prophets, and if they be any thing else in their unwarranted actions, they are the false Apes of the true Prophets. Nor need you think it strange I speak of transmigrations, Pseudo-Christus Will. Frankland and Mary Gadbury the Lambs wife of late in Hamshire. for these monstrous last times have brought us out all kind of prodigious follies. Have we not them that have affirmed themselves to be Christ among us? And of late yeeres doting has been so in fashion, that divers vanities and blasphemies have come to view. I'll give you a touch of some, Bale out of Leland. Godwin in Bishops Liv. in Steph. Langton of Canterbury. and the Lord knows there are many in the nature of these every day rising, and likely to rise more through the liberty of prophesying. In a Synod at Oxford there was once presented to the Bishop of canterbury, Stephen Langton, a young man, that said he was Christ, and shewed the wounds, marks in his hands, feet, side. He brought two women with him, whereof one took upon her to be the Virgin Mary, the other Mary Magdelen; but this false Christ was truly crucified and put to death for his blasphemy. Guy de Bres. Mr. bailie. A woman at Apezel in Switzerland, did teach, and would needs persuade a number of Anabaptists, that She was Christ the messiah of the women, and she choose to herself twelve Apostles too. John Becold of Leiden( all know) gave he was appointed by God to be King over the Saints, Lambertus. Hortensius. and to rule by Revelations of the spirit; the Prophets they had confirmed it, and said, O behold, the Father gives thee the sword, and calls thee to be King to reign in Sion. John 21.22 Upon a willing mistake of these words, If I will that he tarry till I come; one would needs affirm John was not to die, but to live upon earth till Christ come again, Beza in Annotat. mayor. in joan. Evan. and he avowed himself to be that John, the beloved Disciple of Christ; but this false John was truly burnt at Tholous. For transmigrations, Loriottus a professor of Law at Leipsick, B●em. in Exer. Theol. affirmed, that his soul heretofore dwelled in an Ape, and that after his death it would go into a Cock. These are the fruits of Catabaptisme, Weigelianisme, familism, Seeking, Transing, always passing into some strange dotages: Let but this people be attended and observed a while, and if you do not hear of transmigrations, or worse, and higher blasphemies and apish follies, let me be censured by this geart Antiquaering Cato who I believe dare not promise, that these shall none of them run into such wild fancies, they having done prettily already in that kind. Tell us not your men must act Esay and jeremy and the like, unless you can prove transmigration, or give us Scripture for it, QUERE XXVIII. Whether when about Malton there are towards two or three hundred neglecting their callings, meeting together, old and young, to compare notes of entransed madness, it concerns not a Church, nay a Common-wealth, if it were no more then Pagan, to look to it, to prevent the growth of further mischief? Antiqu. Whether it be the spirit of Christ or Antichrist his enemy, that repines and rages to hear of the increase of the number of such Disciples, as deny themselves of Honours, Pleasures, Riches, to follow Christ, &c. Reply. Would to God they followed Christ rightly. None ever despised the preaching of gospel, and Ordinances of Christ, and at the same time could be said to be followers of Christ. The rest of your speech is saltpeter and Gun-powder, all spittings of reviles, as if speaking of the evil of these mens way were high persecution and Dragonisme, powring out a stoud to drown the goodly man-child of their rare Religion. Amongst these, another flower of your modest oratory falls into your discourse, but as a part of your seeking Antiquaerie. Whether is not this( say you) another lye added to the former, to say that there are about Malton, two or three hundred that neglect their callings? In this no lye appears, for in Malton there are many, and at Malton in the day of their Quaking Rendevousings and meetings, there were met together hundreds, sometimes it being a running fancy, and they meeting from divers parts there in a confluence, the East running to North and West, and sometimes they of the West running to the East. Lest this seem strange to truth, you may be told that about Wakefield, Stanley, Holbeck, Rodwell, kendal, they do divers times come from several parts to make up great numbers, and I believe their callings lie in a trance, whilst they run far from home to follow these quaking Communions. QUAERE XXIX. Whether these evils at Land be not worse then the Dutch at Sea, which call on us all to call on God for reclaiming poor souls from madly running on in Satans driven, and to preserve us, ours and the Country from being left to our lusts, lies and unevangelicall liberties. Antiqu. Whether Scotch, or Dutch, Papists, or any public enemy that would over run the Land( if they would but let the Papists keep their Hive) be not wished by thee, rather then a swordlesse weaponless people, who are against that hire, discovering the deceit of it by Scripture? Reply. I might well question whether you can writ any thing without Worm-wood-water be in your ink? or whether your book would have made one good sheet, but that railing against Ministers came in every leaf abundantly? For Ministers hire you have been answered before, and so has your Brother Rabshakeh, Tom Collier, b ene answered by others. You add, if the Priests be able to defend themselves by Scripture against a people that use only the weapon of the Scripture, why do they cry out for help to the Magistrate? Ministers are able to defend themselves and the truth, and yet the Magistrate may be called upon to hinder tumults, pulling out of the Pulpit, interruptions of them in the Pulpit, seducing mens Wives to leave their Husbands, and the like, to the spreading of their poison abroad. QUAERE XXX. Whether this people, think there is any Christ, but Christ in them? And whether it be not a strange Christ that crosses his own gospel, Word, Practise, and Rule? Antiqu. do they not propound the example to thee, and the words to confounded thy hire, if thou be a Priest, do they not tell you that Christ calls such thieves and Robbers, who come not in by the door? and so forth. Reply. You have been answered to the Priests hire, whether the Quaerer be one or no; for the rest that follows it is not answering, but bitter quarreling; you say thy Christ that is in thee, and then by your old figure, thy devil that is in thee( for you say you cannot call him Christ) rages against that which is an high lesson of self-denial. do not over-heat yourself with a scale fire of choler. You tell of persecuting, imprisoning, stocking of Christ in them. Is reviling of Magistrates and Ministers their Christ? Is other unorderly, immodest actions their Christ for which they are imprisoned? Would to God we could see more of Christ in them, and we should not complain, or call for restraint: you have great need to repent of that word[ greatly,] Thy Christ that is in thee rails against such meetings as the true Christ was conversant among. as durum! What a bold heart is here, that writes with so bold a pen? Did ever any but this man say that the true Christ was conversant among such as these, and in such meetings? For by your words you would give to understand, Christs followers whilst he was on earth were all of these Perfectioners, and yet Quakers, which are very unsuitable, perfection and quaking. Which of the Disciples were in transes, and spoken idly when they came out? Which of them in their meetings cried out of Magistrates, and Preachers, and the true Christ among them liked it? Now for a conclusion to your Antiquaeries, that all may know who red this, what kind of rare Enthusiasts yours are: I shall set down some of their opinions and tenants, which shall all be avouched from their writings by letters, and open speeches heard by many. 1. They do hold themselves to be come into a state of perfection, when they are regenerate into their transing way, Catharists. Familists. Donatists. Perfectus nemo est qui non magna mendacia apud ipsos producit. Irenae. contra Valentin. l. 1. c. 15. you shall have for this, these words exactly according to one of their Letters. You make the people believe Christ hath but taken away part, and not all,( that is of sin) where he speaks of perfection in part, he speaks of the growing from faith to faith, but where he speaks of the New Man, he speaks of the whole Man, redeemed wholly from the vain conversation of the world, the Old Man being crucified and dead, and cast out, and the New Man being raised, and reigning and ruling with power: then the acting of sin is taken away, as well as the guilt and punishment. Here is a Perfectionist indeed, from whom the Acting of sin is quiter taken away. Menandrians. Familists. Libertines. Theirs letters tell us, that the Resurrection is past already. Paul called this, in Hymeneus and Phïletus, profane and vain babbling, and that which tends to overthrow the Faith. It is a mad conceit of the Familists, when a man is converted and renewed, the Resurrection is past, the great Trumpet is already blown. Familists. It follows upon this, that the Resurrection being past, the day of Judgement may be in this life too. So in their letter to the Judges they writ, that now is the son come to Judgement, and the Saints shall Judge the world. The Minister at Malton was opposed by one of them after Sermon before the Congregation, and accused of false Doctrine. Being asked how the charge arose, It was answered, he had taken away the Saints prerogative, and given it to God. For the Saints are to judge the world, and your Minister tells you, that God will judge the world. This is familism, making Christ nothing without the Saints, and no Christ but in them. They commend a community of goods, and practise a living upon one another too much, Catabaptists. Familists. and too palpably, and urge it too far. They make nothing of outward teaching of the word, Bread and Wine they call a carnal Ordinance, Weigelianisme. familism. Zuenfieldianisme. Enthusiasts. baptism and Matrimonies they call Formalities, and tell of all these spiritually, onely to be looked after, and all inwardly onely to be taught, disgracing the word as a mere letter, and bidding harken to that which is in them, though the light that is in them may be darkness. They Father all their bold and lewd speakings and doings upon the Spirit. Libertines. One of them having a letter railed against a Minister and his preaching grievously, with very lewd terms, he writ in the bottom, from the Spirit of God in such a man. He might better have said, from the Spirit of Blasphemy and bitterness, then have fathered revilings and clamours upon Gods spirit, whose wisdom and carriage is gentle, pure and peaceable, James 3. They look for extraordinary raptures, inspirations, miracles, brag of miraculous healings, Montanists. and promise the casting of Devills out of men and women, making all to have the devil in them that are not their way. They wait for new things every day, and seek for strange things as ever were among Prophets or Apostles. Seekers. Applauded is by them the liberty of Prophesying, and what comes into their heads is all Spirit and prophesy. Men, women, Iude's filthy dreamers, Socinians. boyes and girls, may all turn into Prophets and Preachers by Quaking, and all other Preachers and Ministers are but deluders and without calling. Too much are they addicted to conversing with women, and setting on them, to seduce them and teach them all pranks, Carpocratians. Valentinians. iron. l. 1. cap. 24. as being fittest to draw on others, after the manner of them in Apostles times, leading Captives silly women, and after the manner of Valentinians drawing women from their husbands, having some kind of philtra& charitesia, to that purpose, inticings to love and follow them. Imaginations have they of great liberty and freedom, Monasterian Anabaptists. Liberi, the free Anabaptists. that none should say or do any thing by way of Rule or Command. Hence are cried down Magistrates& Ministers as unlawful callings, that they may onely Magistrate it, and Minister all things themselves. Ministers to have no maintenance, Anabaptists in Common. Antiscripturists. not to preach upon Texts, though Scriptures tell us of both. If their supposed spirit stir them up to it, nakedness and other obscenities may be used, and all good, Tending to Adamites, Libertines, Enthusiasts. by the will of the Father, and command of G●d upon them. A leaving all and running about to preach and cry out in Streets, Markets, House tops, every one that will, imagining he is called to it. Thoughts that they onely are the people of God, apostolic Anabaptists. and his Israel; and all others like Canaanites must be destroyed and rooted out by them. Huttite Anabaptists. Regeneration and new birth is their Christ, justification, sanctification, perfection, all. All is confounded with and in this, Christ without them is little minded, Papists, Familists, Libertines this is that which states them in innocency in a sort, and being regenerate and denying themselves, they may do any thing, for it is Christ in them, which is a kind of Popery to be justified by grace in us. If they sin, it is not they but the fl●sh, or as the Libertines said, it was their ass that did it, Calvin. contra Libertin. c. 18. their outward man. These all, and many more then these may be drawn from their letters written, their speeches, and principles, without straining of consequences. More might be mentioned, but their own writings and doings will in a short time more lay them open. FOr the Antiquerers answering of Scripture, he first gives answer to this Scripture, 1 Cor. 6.5. His answer is plain scolding with and reviling the ministry. The Reply I make is this. The Lord either teach him patience or rebuk him, for setting himself against Ordinances of God: For Ministers maintenance is Gods Ordinance. The Lord hath ordained that they which preach the gospel, 1 Cor. 9.14. should live of the gospel. The next Scripture he answers is this, 1 Cor. 14.33. There he tells us their peoples speaking in the Assembly is not Confusion but Order, by that Scripture, 1 Cor. 14.30, 31. If any thing be revealed to another that sitteth by, let the first hold his peace. For ye may all prophesy one by one, that all may learn and all may be comforted. To this Scripture he brings, I bring this a true and full answer. The church of the Corinthians had such rare gifts of prophesy, miracles, tongues, that many besides him that first began to teach had the Spirit in an excellent manner inspiring them, that they were enabled to prophesy also. Let these tell and show us for a truth, that their men and women that stand up and speak in the Assembly have the Spirit of God extraordinarily inspiring them, with rare gifts furnishing them, and then they may have leave to speak in order. But now they let us see no extraordinary gifts but extraordinary boldness, they speak no Prophesies, but revilings and cursed language against Prophets and Preachers, and so this Scripture leaves them naked and will not cloth or cover them. For these to stand up one, two or three together, absurdly to vent their own vanities, without either inspiration or order, is mere confusion, and to say they speak by the spirit, thus speaking is blasphemy. Another Scripture is, 1 Cor. 14.34, 35. About womens silence in the Churches. Our great Antiquerer answers it quickly, that women are not excluded from speaking at all meetings, because of that Scripture, 1 Cor. 11.5. Every woman that prayeth or prophesyeth with her head uncovered, dishonoureth her head. And then he adds that of Joel, the promise of the spirit to Daughters as well as sons. To this that he objects, of a woman praying or Prophesying with her head uncovered, is answered satisfactorily to as learned as the Antiquerer, that the womans Prophesying is the joining in heart and mind to follow and attend him that Prophesies, but not openly to prophesy as one performing an office in the Church, because even very women that had not the gift of prophesy, were not to speak publicly in the Church, by that plain prohibition of the Apostle, 1 Cor. 14.34, 35. 1 Tim. 2.12. Or Secondly, which some rather cleave to, the womans Prophesying in the Church, is the joining with the Congregation in praising God by psalms and hymns. Scripture thus calls the praising of God by music and Psalms Prophesying. Three times is musical singing called Prophesying, 1 Chron. 25.1, 2, 3. And when Saul was chosen to be King, 1 Chron. 25.1, 2, 3. 1 Sam. 10.5.& 10. we find he meets with Prophets with Psaltery, Tabret, Pipe, harp, and he Prophesied with them, that is, he sang with them. For Daughters Prophesying as well as sons, unless you can apply it better then Peter, Acts 2: it was fulfilled presently after Christs Ascension into Heaven, when all the multitude of believers spoken with divers tongues. Whereas he writes, if they prophesy, shall they speak to the walls or to people about them? I answer, first let us be sure that they prophesy, and then we shall tell you where they may speak, or the Apostle will tell you, though they prophesy, yet they are to be silent in the Church. 1 Cor. 14. withall, I could tell you that the knowledge of believers in the New Testament, as handmaids, and Servants, Sons and Daughter, is called by the highest name of knowledge in the Old Testament, Visions, dreams, Prophesies, to show that the knowledge of God shall very much abound in last times, and yet not constitute them public Prophets, and put them in office. Last Scripture is, 2 Thes. 3.6.& 11, 12. Against disorderlinesse. To this the Antiquaerer answers, with disorder and railing, and he is there left to his own humour. You excuse the Transers, and retort and return busy medlings upon the Ministers, whom you are pleased to name Hirelings, and you are their paymaster, though you be not called upon to it, for such as you have, you give them, even bitter words, and the birth of malicious lips and heart. You close up all with 8. Queries, returned to the first Quaerer. QUAERE I. Your first Quaere is. Whether the Quaerer be not acted by a carnal spirit contrary to Pauls, who saith, the weapons of our warfare are not carnal? but the Quaerer cries aloud for the carnal weapons of the magistrate to subdue a peaceable, harmless people. Answer. To this you have had answer before, Magistrates are called upon to suppress and restrain their riots, In the Apostles time there were no Christian Magistrates to call upon. disorders, Sabbath-breakings, pullings out of Pulpit, drawing mens wives and children from them, and you shall find Paul appealing to the Magistrates often, in the Acts of the Apostles in case of defence, and saving him from conspiracies, unjust and violent tumults. He sends to the chief captain, Acts 23.17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23. withall he appeals to Caesar. There are two other queries I shall answer to, and we will put up the rest in the Advocates black box of slanders and bitter revilings. QUAERE II. Your second Quaere is, If this people were Tares ready to choke the wheat, yet whether doth not his counsel contradict the counsel of Christ, Math. 13.29, 30. where he saith, let both grow together until the harvest, lest you pluck up the wheat with them? Answer. I knew whither you would run in the end to the Parable of Tares, which is the Sanctuary of Sectaries: But Sir, Asylam Sectarum parabola Zizaniorum. I must pluck you from the horns of this Altar. This is the great Text for liberty, as is conceived by Libertines, Nebuchadnezzars great three in the dream, Dan. 4.12. ( and these dream on it too) the leaves whereof are faire, and the fruit much, the Beasts of the field shadow under it. I shall manifest the weakness of this, to prove the Toleration of all intolerable Heresies. 1. It is a parable, and so the scope of it is to be taken, and every part of it is not to be made an argument. Now the scope of it is this, not to bridle Magistrates, but to moderate and order the forward zeal of Christs Disciples, and all holy ones to the end of the world; not to be too hasty, nor murmuring and repining at Divine Providence, because the wicked and unholy grow up and flourish in the earth with the godly, and because they are not all presently destroyed, remembering this, though men cannot do it in this day, yet there shall be a perfect riddance of them at the last day. They may do their endeavour, and quietly leave the rest to God. 2. This is not spoken onely of heretics and false teachers, but all the children of the wicked one are Tares, in any kind of continued in ungodliness. All things that offend, and them that do equity, are the Tares gathered for the everlasting fire. Mat. 13.38.41. Now Drunkards, Murderers, Adulterers, &c. are Tares, and that offend as well as heretics and false Doctors. And if Let them alone be given as a command to Magistrates and all men till the last day, by this our great Bible Scholiast, then mark what savoury doctrine he gives Magistrates, they must let Traitors, thieves, Murderers, all ungodly persons alone till the day of judgement, for they are Tares, children of the wicked one, offend▪ and do iniquity. 3. This let them alone is not simply and absolutely to let them alone, but onely respectively to danger arising to the good in the too much punishing the evil. When there may be hurt to the wheat by plucking up the Tares, then it were better to let them alone, when the godly may be in danger to perish with the wicked. 4. It is not meant of Church and Doctrines that are false onely, but our Saviour expounds the field to be the world, and not the Church, and so all ungodliness in the world is to be let alone till the day of Judgement, if this be a command. 5. But let them alone is no command, but an inhibition of our Saviours of too much fierceness of spirit, or preposterous zeal, discontented that all is not pure and holy. For all this, Magistrates may punish, Ministers may rebuk, there may be excommunication, and ecclesiastical plucking up, and casting out of Tares before the last day, and this forbids it not. It is well observed by the learned Camero, that the Anabaptists, that the most fly to this Text, to clip the wings of Magistrates, which is not the scope of Christ, they themselves cast by this Text in their practise, Camero in Myrothec. Evangel. and are very earnest pluckers up of those they count Tares, and have the most direful excommunications to cast out of their Church of any other. 6. Lastly, Christ expounds not these words, let them grow till the Harvest, telling us his meaning is, we should tolerate all sins and sinners till the last day, for then I conceive he should contradict himself, and be of another mind in heaven then he was in upon earth. For from heaven he hath declared himself to be against the toleration and letting alone of such as vent doctrines erroneous, contrary to the gospel. To the angel of the Church of Ephesus Christ bids writ, I know thy works, and thy labour, Revel. 2.2. and thy patience, and how thou canst not bear them which are evil, and thou hast tried them, which say they are Apostles and are not, and hast found them liars. again, this thou hast, Revel. 2.20. that thou hatest the deeds of the Nicolaitans which I also hate. To the Church of Th●atira, I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebell, which calleth her sel●e a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my Servants, to commit Fornication, and to eat things sacrificed to idols.— He doth not say, I am against thee, because thou wilt not let these false teachers, false men Prophets, false women Prophetesses, go and trance, seduce, deceive souls, which thou should suffer in this world, and let the day of judgement try them. No, he saith, I have a few things against thee, because thou dost suffer them. Either you in alleging the parable of Tares, contradict the sense and meaning of Christ there: or else you make Christ to contradict himself here, choose whether you will, you abuse Jesus Christ. The Lord give you a better seeing eye, and a more understanding heart. QUAERE III. The third Quaerie of our Antiquaerers is this, Whether Gamaliel or this man gave better counsel, Act. 5.34, 35, 36, 38, 39. Where Gamaliel said, let them alone, if it be not of God, it will come to nought, but this man saith, move the Magistrate to subdue them? Answer. Gamaliel was a Doctor of the Law, but he pleads very poorly here, as the Antiquering advocate doth. Since you wait for an answer to your Q●aere, hold you, there it is. The Quaerer gave better counsel, more wisely: Gamaliel spoken unsoundly and sillily. I see one weak Advocate admires another, I wish better pleaders for me, then either of these two Doctors, when I have a cause in hand. 1. For your satisfaction further, lo, you shall see pure Gamalielisme, that is, poor logic, and poorer Law. I grant you that God did good by this speech of his, the Lord making use of it as a moderare speech with some could water in it, to mitigate the flamme and rage of the council, and High Priest, that they fell not upon sentemcing the Apostles to death, by their Law against false Prophets and seducers, as they were forward enough, but that this man of gravity cried to them, walk soberly, be not too hasty, take heed what you do. 2. Yet I must tell you again, his moderation is urged with very weak Arguments. If this counsel or work be of men, it will come to nought: if it be of God, ye cannot overthrow it. Alas he was ignorant, and spake doubtfully, with an If it be of God, of the gospel of Jesus Christ, he spoken like an unbeliever. If it be of men, what need he say so, when he had heard of such a Birth, such a Life, such Miracles, such Holinesse, such a Death, such a Resurrection, Ascension of Christ, such holy lives, such rare teaching, great miracles and gifts of the Apostles, as might put him beyond Ifs and Hypotheticalls too, It is not of Men, this is above Man, it is all Divine. 3. With this reasoning, you and Gamaliel may say, let Traitors, let Witches, let Adulterers, let all abominable wicked practices alone, let Magistrates meddle with none of them, and salue all with a We shall see in the end whether they be of God or no. In the mean time it seems Magistrates and Ministers must do nothing in their office towards reproving, restraining of heresy, or open wickedness, but all must turn Seekers and Waiters, and by the event they wait to see, they must judge by perishing or prospering, whether the thing be of God or no. I thought by the word of God we might judge of things whether they be of God or no, better then by events. 4. Gamaliel and you, that seem to have been brought up at his feet, would have the counsel, and so you would have all Christian Magistrates and Ministers to turn Neuters to the gospel, that is, Seekers: Neither make nor meddle with it, nor trouble ourselves with what is against it, neither prove and try any things that are against the gospel, nor reprove them, but wait for God, and commit all without means and mediate redresses, to immediate providence.— No Sir, we are at a point with you, we know there is but one gospel. With that knowledge of Jesus Christ we have in the Scriptures, we can tread over a thousand of your Ifs, and turn your If backward, and say, fie upon all lying vanities, I hate vain inventions, but thy Law do I love. We know in whom we have beleeeved, that without if or and, the preaching of the gospel, and embracing of it is the counsel of Jesus Christ, and must stand to the end of the world. Yea without if or and, against old or young Gamaliels, sceptics or Seekers, we are sure that the way of your common enthusiasms, unordinancing of souls, leaving of Callings, railing of the gospel Magistracy, gospel ministry is of man, and will in the end come to nought. Yet is it the duty of the people of God to pray against it, act against it, in restraining, reproving and spreading of these Cankers and deadly evils. The rest of your Queries you may put among slanders and evil speeches. A POST-SCRIPT IN behalf of the QUERER. THe Antiquaerer finds fault in his Postscript, his book was not printed by him that printed the queries, which is nothing to the Quaerer, but should be born with by you, for why may not the Printer use the just Liberty of Conscience in this, to choose to print Truth, and refuse to print Errors? So far as I can find the Quaerer hindered him not. Whereas you boast, the Quaerer set not his name, therefore do not you: Truly to that I could well answer, it was a small thing, and he affencted not to make himself known in this. Besides, it may be he would not take your word, that that people are of so harmless and innocent behaviour, but however as you have wisely concealed your name, and so let him if he will reason the case with you for his concealment. He intended no quarrel, but fair warning to take heed of Seducers. Sir, when you writ, revile not, I have abstained from it all along, and have choose rather to be quick and pleasant with you, and show you your weakness, rather then show you my malice. If at any time you judge I have been sharp with a soft scabbard, remember how you struck and laid about you with a naked sword. And so Philalethes bids farewell to Philodoxus. FINIS. Faults escaped, correct thus. EPist. p. 2. l. 17. r. for their opinions. p. 6. l. 2. r. not a word. p. 12. in the beginning of the Antiquer. r. whether doth not Christ. p. 14. l. 9. r. roving. p. 18. l. 17. r. Elimas. ibid. l. 21. r. Elimas, because: ibid. l. 25. r. hear tell. p. 20. Marg. l. 26. r. take not upon.