A REPLY TO A PAPER Written by one of the Six CLERKS, ENTITLED, An Answer to a Printed Paper of the under-Clerks in Chancery, ENTITLED, Reasons to be offered, etc.  
THE Respondent or Author of the Paper doth well to Entitle himself A Lover of Truth and Justice, else no man by his Writing could ever have thought him so. And where he conjectures the Reasons to be framed by some under-Clerks in Chancery, he may possibly be so fare in the right, but not a word further: And for the satisfaction he desires, who will own it, he may please to understand that the Clerks of the Court do generally own it, and many of them have so expressed themselves unto me, and for the truth of the matter, no man need to doubt it; for if it might be put into a way of Examination, it would be made appear upon the Oaths of 100 several persons, and if the Author thinks himself, and the rest of his brethren scandalised with matter of truth, I cannot help it.  
And the Author having finished his Prologue (instead of giving an Answer to the Reasons) falls a railing at the Clerks for saying their Allowances are too small, and calls them sherks for that they share with the six Clerks in the Fees which the Clients pay.  
In Vindication of whose Reputation, although I forbear to say, that the six Clerks have first sherked upon the Clerks, yet I shall truly inform the Reader how they have used the Clerks, and not the Clerks alone, but even the Lord Protector himself, and all the people of the Nation, and leave it to others to give their actions a name according as they deserve. For anciently when the business of the Court was but little, and the six Clerks were not only nominal, but real Attorneys, advising and directing Clients, and laying out and disbursing money for them, and thereby adventuring the loss thereof, and with their own hands writing all the special business of the Court (wherein any Clerkship was required) and had but one or two young Clerks apiece, to write and copy things of an ordinary and easy nature, even than the same young Clerks (their menial servants) had all the Fees which the six Clerks of late allowed to the practising Clerks, and had also their Diet, Chamber-rent, Paper, Ink, Parchment and Candles, Blank-writs of all sorts, second Copies, renewed Writs, and Copies of Decrees and Dismissions, and the whole Fees of many Writs, some of which the six Clerks themselves afterwards took from the Clerks, and others they suffered to be taken away by Patentees, as making Subpenas, engrossing of Grants and Leases to the great Seal, and the like, which the six Clerks opposed not, it trenching upon the Clerks only. And when the six Clerks ceased to act for the Clients as Attorneys, making it their chief employment to keep Books of Entries, whereby to exact their pretended Fees, all the care and burden of Causes being cast upon the Clerks, and they compelled to disburse all moneys to be laid out for Clients, and very often with their own money to pay the Clients Fees (which grew due for their own labour) to the six Clerks, which they never received again from the Clients, and undergo all other hazards and losses. And when all the aforesaid allowances were likewise withheld from them, and the benefit of divers Writs gone as aforesaid, it may be truly said that there was a necessity laid upon the Clerks to withhold a greater part of the Fees, which the Clients paid, than the six Clerks would seem willing to allow them, and this they might lawfully do without violation of the Laws of God or man, for I find no text of Scripture that erects such Officers as the six Clerks to live upon the people's purses, without any care or regard of, or ability to do them service in their Causes, nor is there any Statute or other Law that creates them save only their illegal Parent granted in the time of Monopolies by the late King Charles, but there are several Acts of Parliament prohibiting the buying and selling of Offices: And I likewise find a Text of Scripture where the righteous God (taking upon himself the business of Reformation) promiseth his people to send them Judges as at the first and Officers as at the beginning. From whence it may be concluded, that Officers and others in Public employment had need sometimes to be reform and brought to their Primitive constitution. And if the six Clerks were still so continued and made to become working Attorneys as at the first, 
Ao 12º Ri. 2● they were increased from three to six.  and so many more added unto them and made Attorneys likewise, as are necessary for dispatch of the business of the Court, I think no man would desire to remove them out of such their proper employment, or to receive one penny of their Fees. But they have not only thus abused the Clerks, but have in a much higher nature abused the Lord Protector, and all the people of the Nation, Witness their receiving very large Fees for inrolling all such Grants and Pardons and other things as pass the Great Seal, and never inrolling or estreating many of them, whereby the Lord Protector and Commonwealth are very much abused, and the Rents and Reservations upon them (for want of sending Estreats into the Exchequer) never appear, whereby they may be demanded or levied as they ought to be. And the people are greatly abused, not only their Estates, but their Lives being in danger, for want of inrolling the Grants and Pardons, there having been few or none enrolled for these fourteen years last passed. And the Warrants and Privy Seals for passing them are so ill kept, that many of them within these nine or ten years' last are quite rotten, not to be read again, so that now its impossible ever to have them enrolled: and the truth hereof would appear, were the Clerks appointed for keeping the Records examined upon Oath, and search made at the Hamper Office what Patents have passed within these fourteen years last passed, and then see in the Chapel of the Rolls and Exchequer how many of the Rolls are sent to the Chapel of the Rolls, or Estreat into the Exchequer. And now what name these do and actions of the six Clerks shall have, I leave to the Reader to judge. But I am sure, that which the Author of the Pamphlet calls shirking in the Clerks, is but the receiving of less than one half of the wages due for their own labours, which some of the greatest and most wise of the late six Clerks have acknowledged to be due, and of right belonging to them. For I remember when I waited upon one of the six Clerks, some of the younger sort of them proposing Rules of practice to tie the Clerks to a more strict Account, I heard that grave and wise Gentleman Mr Saunders (sometime one of the six Clerks) express himself to this effect, viz. Let them alone, they do the Work that we ought to do, they disburse their own money, and save us from disbursing ours, they bring us a great profit, and run all the hazard, and if they do receive one half of the Fees paid by the Clients, it is no more than is necessary to maintain themselves and families.  
And I appeal to all indifferent men, whether if one of the six Clerks receive clearly into his own Purse 1500 or 700 per Annum or more, by the labour of the Clerks in his Office, which are seventeen or eighteen persons, (as by their own Certificate to the Committee for Regulation of the Chancery appears,) Whether those seventeen or eightteen persons should not receive amongst them all to maintain their families, so much as one six Clerk had to maintain his: The six Clerk in the mean time, having no hazard, but receives his money ready down from the Clerks whether they receive it or no, and the Clerks adventuring that which they pay down to the six Clerks, their own Fees, and all other disbursements which many times are lost.  
And as touching the Estates which the Pamphlet mentions to be gained by the practising Clerks out of their former allowances; I say, That although the Clerks did at the time he speaks of, share with the six Clerks, and receive as much of the Fees paid by the Clients, as they have done at any time since; Yet he cannot name above two persons, that ever gained any considerable Estate by that employment 
* E. R. H. P. . And for any others, the Estates they have gotten are but small, and much inferior to the Estates that many other industrious men have acquired in employments much inferior to theirs. But it may be truly observed, that the small Estates gained by the Clerks have prospered better than the large Estates gotten by the six Clerks; For memory hath scarce recorded, that ever an Estate gotten by a six Clerk remained to his posterity one age after his death.  
In the next place the Author of the Pamphet seems much to undervalue the Clerks pains, saying, They take pains to part stakes with the six Clerks, and that the servants of the Clerks take more pains than the Clerks themselves. But here (as in all the rest of the Pamphlet) although he styles himself a Lover of the Truth, yet he loves not to speak the truth; Witness his misreciting the Ordinance, and mentioning thirteen Groats allowed to the intended Attorneys; where it is but ten Groats, and his misrepeating the Reasons likewise; and where the Reasons say, the Clerk might justly receive part of the Fees which the six Clerks claimed, he repeats it, That they might easily do it. And I would know of the Author, Where (in the Paper which he calls the Clerk's paper) he finds any acknowledgement, That the Fees allowed by the Ordinate to the intended Attorneys, are as great as the Fees allowed to the Attorneys of other Courts? I am sure I can find no such thing therein, but his paper is stuffed with nothing but untruths: And touching the Clerks pains, I would know of him, Who are the Persons that direct and advise all the Clients of the Court in their Causes, and draw all the special Writs, Commissions, Decrees, Dismissions, and other things? Surely he will not say, that either the six Clerks, or the Servants to the practising Clerks do, or can do any of these things. And whether these things can be done without much care and pains, I leave it to any other (except the Author) to judge: As also, Whether the case be the same twixt the six Clerks and Clerks, as betwixt the Clerks and their menial servants, or between a man and his servant whom he teaches and instructs in an employment, and maintains with meat, drink, lodging, and other necessaries? The six Clerks being none of them bred in the employment, and so know nothing of it, when they purchase their Offices, and what knowledge they after attain to in the employment they learn from the Clerks, and not the Clerks from them.  
And where any untruth is laid down as a foundation in the Reasons (as the Author would insinuate) I cannot see; I hope he doth not mean that the Clerks say untruly, in saying, they were compelled to pay the six Clerks the Fees due from the Clients, and never received them again: For the Author by his long experience cannot but know, that he hath compelled the Clerks to pay him some hundreds of pounds, that they never received again from the Clients: And every Clerk that hath had any considerable practice, if examined upon his Oath, would depose, that the six Clerks have exacted from him some scores of pounds that he never did or could receive again from the Clients. And although I believe the Author be a better Divine than a Clerk or Lawyer, yet he can hardly find it resolved amongst all the Casuists, that the Clerks are bound in conscience to pay their Clients Fees, out of their own purses to the six Clerks, although they never received them of the Client, or that it is fraud or unjust covetousness, if they (being unjustly compelled so to do at one time) re-imburse themselves at another time. As for the pains pretended to be taken by the six Clerks, I leave to all the Clients in England to judge what it is.  
And seeing the Author by his paper gives occasion to lay forth their nakedness, which I never found the Clerks to have done, I will with moderation (not with railing, as he doth) tell you what they do; They only keep Books, wherein they enter the names of the Clients for their better receiving the Fees, to which none have access but themselves; for as soon as they go from their Offices in the vacation, they either take those Books along with them, or lock them up, so as no man hath use thereof, or benefit thereby, but themselves, so that this labour might be very well spared, and the Cause would proceed somewhat the faster. They likewise attend in Court, and read Clients Books, but the Clerk must attend likewise to give him the Book or Writing that he is to read: And might not this formality then be likewise spared? And were it not as little labour for the Clerk to read them himself in Court, as to give them to the six Clerk to read?  
They allege, Dispatch of references, but they are chief of their own occasioning, and if they were able to give a present account to the Court of the course and practice of Court, and the proceed in Causes as able Attorneys might do, the references would be spa●ed, and the Court and Client much eased.  
The Author further saith, By the same Argument the Clerks would share with the six Clerks in the Fees, so might a Ploughman or Soldier claim as much as his Landlord or Commander, and that the Clerks proceed unjustly in making their pains the rule of propriety, and not Law and Justice, and that they promised the six Clerks upon their Admittances to be content with their Allowances, but never kept their words. And that they teach the Lord Protector, and the honourable Committee what Fees should be paid; And that they go along with the Levelling Party, and are dangerous Persons to be trusted, and divers such like untrue and scandalous Assertions.  
In Answer whereunto, I desire the Reader to peruse the later end of my Paper, entitled, A Discovery of certain grievances in the Court of Chancery, etc. where he will find a full Answer to these sleight Objections. Whereunto I add further, That the Clerks may well make the pains to be taken for Clients the best Rule of Propriety to entitle them to Fees suitable to their pains and service, especially where the matter and Fees are under consideration of Parliament to be reform and appointed to every one according to desert, and a quantum meruit lies at Common Law for recovery of meet satisfaction for pains taken; Therefore the Author of the Pamphlet doth well to confess ingeniously, that he and the rest of his Brethren had need of a further help than a quantum meruit to recover their Fees, and therefore may well disclaim to have the pains taken for Clients to be the Rule of Propriety.  
And surely the Clerks would have been too blame, if they had been altogether silent, when they found that some of the Fees intended to them are so small, that the Parchment will cost them more than they are to receive for the same when it is written: With this, that they no ways went about to teach the Lord Protector, or the honourable Committee What Fees are to be paid, but humbly offered their Reasons, and left it to their consideration in an humble and private way, not making their Reasons public, as the Author of the Pamphlet hath done them, and his own Paper, by selling them publicly to the Stationers, I suppose, partly to make profit to himself, but chief to asperse and calumniate the Clerks; for had I not found the Pamphlet so public at every Stationer's shop, I had spared this labour, though now in respect of my former relation to them, I thought myself by way of gratitude bound to vindicate them, I finding them silent herein. Neither do the Clerks, as the Author of the Pamphlet falsely insinuates, Run with the levelling Party; for I never understood that it was a levelling principle, for an Apprentice when he hath paid his money, and served his Apprenticeship, to desire to be free of his Trade: Or for a Student of the University or Inns of Court, after he hath continued a convenient time, and done his Exercise, to desire to take Degrees, or be called to the Bar: And if this be levelling, all the Attorneys of the Common-Pleas and Upper-Bench have been Levellers for many ages last passed; for that Attorneys Clerks of those Courts, after they have served a convenient time, and fitted themselves for that employment, have never been denied to be admitted Attorneys.  
And surely the Gentleman discovers a high Principle of Tyranny, that would have so many Freemen of England, men of Repute and Fortune, Masters of Families, etc. to be under a Yoke of Servitude, and be accounted as their menial Servants all the days of their lives; And he is no less injurious and unconscionable to appropriate the practising Clerks Fees to the six Clerks, that so the Clerks might be at their Will and Pleasure only; For what greater Tyranny and Oppression can there be in the world, then when a man hath given a sum of Money to be bred up in an Employment, and then served in it all his life, perhaps twenty or thirty years, to have a stranger illegally to step over him into an Office, and without any cause hold him to any unconscionable Terms and Conditions by promise or other Engagements, and to exact and extort the Fees (paid by the Clients) from the Clerk, and compel him to pay the same out of his own Purse, though he never receive it himself, or else turn him out of that employment, wherein he was bred, and upon which he depends for his subsistence?  
And as touching the Petition annexed to his Paper, although many of the persons mentioned to be Petitioners, disown the same, and divers names are put thereto of men who never were heard of the be Clerks in the Office? yet I say, that the three pence per sheet than desired together with the profit of the Dedimus Potest. and such other Fees, as they then received, did amount to as much as the whole Fees now allowed by the Table of Fees annexed to 〈…〉 Ordinance, and yet not more than was necessary to support themselves and Families.  
And whereas the Author of the Pamphlet would insinuate into the Soldiery, to have the six Clerks looked upon as the Officers of the Army, and the Clerks as the common Soldiers; and thereupon concludes, That it is as unjust for the Clerks to desire their Fees, as for the common Soldier to desire their Commanders pay: He therein mistakes the case: For the six Clerks are but Attorneys, and the Attorneys of every Court, are, or should be as the common Soldiers in an Army (the men on whose shoulders the most hard and laborious work of the Court doth lie.) And as well he might say, That if an Army consisted of five thousand common Soldiers, and there were a necessity in respect of some service to be done to increase these five thousand to twenty thousand, that these five thousand should monopolise the pay of the other fifteen thousand, and put on them the whole burden of the service, and allow them what pay they pleased, and disband them at pleasure: And the Indenture being tripartite, I have sealed him a third part thereof; Whereby he may see, That the case he puts concerning others, is their own, which is that they being in the nature of common Soldiers, viz. Attorneys of a Court of Justice, desire and receive Officers pay, whereby their profit (as it was formerly) was not only much greater than the Fees acquired by most Council which are before them in place, but as great as the Master of the Rolls, or any other Judges in England, even the Lords Commissioners themselves (as I conceive) so that I may truly say to him, Mutato nemine de te fabula narratur. But I have spent more time than need in clearing this, for that every man knows, That an Army cannot admit of any such idle, useless, and exorbitant Officers, as are the six Clerks, and some other pretended Officers in Chancery, who were originally but Clerici secundae formae scribentes in rotulis prepr●is manibus. But they have received Officers pay so long, that they would now fain be Commanders, and forget that they are but Attorneys in the nature of common soldiers.  
And whereas the Author of the Pamphlet unworthily goes about to persuade the People, That the Clerks have principles of fraud radicated in them, and are not fit to be trusted, I say, that if the Clerks did not perform the trust reposed in them, both to the Court and Client, better than the six Clerks performed their trust, the business of the Court would have been in fare worse condition than now it is (although it be bad enough) for certainly all the care and faithfulness that hath been performed either towards the Court or the Suitors, as to the practical part thereof, hath been performed by the Clerks, and by none but the Clerks. As to instance in the passing of a Decree (being a thing of as great moment, as any thing in the Court betwixt party and party) the Clerks take much pains and care truly to collect and compose it out of the Plead and Orders of the Court, and then examine the same with the same Plead and Orders, wherein he often spends three, four or five days, and then presents it to the six Clerk to be signed; who thereupon certifies the Court that he hath examined it, and receives twenty shillings for the same, although in truth, he knows not one word that is contained in it; nor can most of the six Clerks say (if they speak the truth) that ever they examined a Decree in their lives, nor if they should examine them, do they know whether the same are done, as they ought to be, or not. And hereupon the Register upon the Clerk's credit, presents it to be signed by the Lords Commissioners, so that there is no pains or care bestowed about it, but what is done by the Clerk; nay I will boldly affirm, If the Clerks of the Court had been such as the Author of the Pamphlet styles them, it had been no hard matter for them (till of late that a greater care hath been taken by the Lords Commissioners) to have passed Decrees against any man in England for ten thousand pound, there being no care taken what was presented to the Lords Commissioners to be signed, but what was done by the Clerks: And as in Decrees, so I might instance likewise in almost every thing that is done in the Court.  
And I hope, if there be just cause (as certainly there is) to make sixty or seventy Attorneys in the Court of Chancery, every judicious man will think it reasonable, that the Attorneys of the Court (now) should have half so much allowed them for their Fees, as the Attorneys of the same Court had two hundred years since; careful, laborious and able Attorneys, being men of so great trust and absolute necessity in every Court of Justice, that the business of the Court cannot be done without them.  
But as for superintendent Officers, such as are the six Clerks, chief Register and chief Examiner's, Subpena Officers, etc. Although many think it to be an honour to a Court to have such Officers in it, and therefore Prophesy that their removal will occasion many inconveniencies and disorders, yet I will tell them, that these and such like Officers are the disgrace and dishonour of a Court of Justice: And the Chancery never was in so great Honour, as when there were none but working Attorneys and Clerks, viz. (Clerici primae & secundae formae) every of which truly performed the work and labour for which they were ordained: Nor was the Court ever in such dishonour and ignominy, as it hath been since these Clerks became Officers. And give me leave (like a poor Micaia) to foretell, that there never will nor can be any effectual Reformation, as long as there are superintendent Officers continued, between the Master of the Rolls and the Clerks of the Court, (who dispatch the Client's business) to receive the greatest part of the Fees which the Clients pay: For whatsoever Fees are allowed, whether it be the same in the Ordinance, or more or less, if the Clerks receive the same to their own use, the business will be well dispatched, and the Records well kept; whereas if the greatest part of the Fees (which are paid pending the suit) be given to Superintendent Officers, business will never be well done. And the Rule observed in ancient time is very remarkable, where we may see how careful and prudent men were, that Clients Causes should not be obstructed; for when the Master of the Rolls was only a Ministerial Officer (viz. chief Clerk) and the six Attorneys acted for Clients in all respects as Clerks do now, the Master of the Rolls received no Fees from any Clients pending the suit, but the Attorneys who did the whole business received the whole Fees due for the same to their own use. But at and after the hearing of the Causes, the Master of the Rolls received Fees, viz. for every Decree and Dismission ujs— viijd, and for every Exemplification Vidimus and Constat, the like Fee.  
And no doubt this was so done that the Attorneys might have no cause to neglect or delay the Clients Causes, which they would undoubtedly have done, if the Master of the Rolls being the then chief Clerk had received the greatest part of the Fees, due for their Labours; but especially if he had compelled them to pay their Clients Fees out of their own Purses, whether ever they received them of the Clients or not, as of late hath been practised; for 'tis impossible to make a Law to bind the Consciences of men, with their own Money to pay other men the rewards and wages due for their own Labour. And (with sorrow it is spoken) I am now become of the same opinion with those (though I have formerly much opposed them) who think that a Court or Courts of Justice, or other thing that is of a public, concernment to the Commonwealth, when the same hath proceeded in an irregular and disorderly way, grievous to the people, without any through and full Reformation for the space of eighty or an hundred years, that then it is altogether impossible to reform them: For they say (and I find it too true) That in so long a continuance of time there will be so many men of quality and estate immediately concerned, and so many others mediately concerned upon the Account of friendship or other like account, that this of itself will be a great Bullwork against an impartial Reformation.  
I have heretofore answered this and the like Objections, and urged to the Objector thus, Why might not men of ability and integrity, and men no ways, concerned neither immediately nor mediately, call every man one by one that hath any relation to a Court of Justice before them and examine him, and also such others as are fit to be examined, what Fees every man receives from the Clients, and what service they perform for the same Fees, and whether, this be for the good and advantage of Clients, and necessary to be done, or whether superfluous and unnecessary, and performed only for the Fees sake, and not for any good it brings to the people. And by this narrow scrutiny it might be brought to such a perfect and exact Reformation, that no man should be continued to receive ten groats or ten pence from the Client, that could not give a good Account why he receives it, and that he performs some necessary service for the Client, deserving the same. But I do not see that this course is like to be taken; For they that are exalted and stand on the upper ground (because they see more than I do) think they see all; whereas I, and others like me, that stand much below them, do see things which they by reason of their distance of place cannot see. Yet I hope and pray that I may see a real Regulation and Reformation of the Court of Chancery, which if I do not see effected, I shall not yet cease, (having little else to do) to tell the people of this Nation (and that more plainly than I have yet done) where the fault lies.  
FINIS.