A Most Grave, and Modest Confutation of the Errors of the Sect, commonly Called BROWNISTS, OR: SEPARATISTS.  
Agreed upon long since by the joint consent of sundry, godly, and Learned Ministers of this Kingdom, then standing out and suffering in the cause of inconformity; and now published in a time of need, for the good of God's Church, and the better settling of men's unstable minds in the truth against, the subtle insinuations, and plausible pretences of that pernicious evil.  
Published by W. Rathband, Minister of the GOSPEL.  
LONDON, Printed for Edward Brewster, and George Badger, and are to be sold at the Bible, on Fleet-Bridge, and in Saint Dunstanes Churchyard. 1644.   

The Publisher to the READER.  
CHristian Reader, touching this ensuing treatise, be pleased to understand that it was compiled, (so as now thou hast it, without any addition, or alteration) many years since by sundry Reverend and Godly Ministers of this Kingdom, who in their times stood out and suffered in the cause of inconformity to the Ceremonies, and laboured the Reformation of things then, and still in part remaining amiss in our Church: therein both for opinion, and practise, endeavouring to keep close to the Rules of Scripture, and what in them lay to eschew all errors and exorbitances, both of separation on the right hand, and of superstition on the left.  
Who the men were by name, is neither now necessary to be published, nor, in respect of them all, certainly known. But what sort of men they were that made it, and of what piety, charity, modesty, and ability for this controversy they were, the treatise itself by its own light will sufficiently discover to the unpartial, and unprejudicate Reader.  
It is now presented to public view (after so long deteinment) the rather because;  
First, The Press is now more free and open (than in former times) to books of this nature, which do so oppose the Schism of the Brownists, as not at all to allow of the tyranny and corruptions of the Bishops.  
Secondly, It seemeth now more needful then formerly, through the late lamentable increase of opinions and practices of separation, and the dangerous rents already made, and likely to be made thereby, even to the utter ruin of this Church, if by the mercy of our God, and the wisdom of our King, and Parliament, some timely, and effectual remedy be not provided.  
Thirdly, Hereby (good Reader) thou mayst see that the opinions, and practices of those that way addicted, now so much extolled, wondered at, and greedily embraced by many, under the notion of new truths, and a new and further light (as if some new created Star bad now appeared to the world, never seen before) are indeed no other, for substance, but the old errors and dotages of Barrow, and Greenwood, long since by them published, and by the godly, sober, and judicious in those times opposed, and exploded. Save that now, like rusty weapons, they are newly furbished, and being but the same metals, and materials, are only cast into a new mould, with addition of some things more, of the same sort, than they expressly held; mitigation of others, by them more sharply and rigorously delivered; and interlasing of others, more pleasing and plausible to make the rest relish and vent the better.  
Fourthly, Hereby also thou mayst perceive, and take up the true judgement of the true ancient and present Non-conformists of this Kingdom, in these points, as from their own mouth, and pen. Whereof (by the help of God) thou mayst make these, and the like uses.  
First, Thou mayst clear them in thy thoughts from the misrepresentations, and imputations both of the Episcopal, and Schismatical party. Both of which would make the world believe that the Non-conformists have laid the foundation of Brownism, by their principles of Inconformity, and that if this be lawful, the other must needs be necessary: The former sort thus suggesting, to lay the greater hatred upon them and the cause of Reformation, which they promoted; The latter sort to procure the greater credit to their own irregular, and unwarrantable courses thereby. (And would to God that some other brethren (though of a fare better sort, and such as have long groaned under their Conformity, had not been, or yet were not too credulous to such unlikely, and unreasonable suggestions against their brethren.)  
2. Thou mayst see that the cause of separation may be confuted without relinquishing in one part, the grounds of inconformity, or leaning at all unto Episcopacy. As the cause of inconformity, may be fully maintained without fetching weapons from or betaking ourselves unto the Camp of Separation, which thing I could wish with all my heart, bade been well observed by some (otherwise godly and judicious brethren) in these days, who no sooner begin to distaste and cast off, their old burden of superstitious conformity, (of late augmented, and made utterly unprofitable by sundry other innovations) but withal they begin to dislike all set forms of prayer especially, in our liturgy, as unlawful, to question their own present standing in the ministry as Antichristian, and to abstain from our worship, especially our Sacraments, as Idolatrous, with other like unreasonable opinions, and practices. As if it were not possible for men to leap out of the Surplice, unless also they leapt out of the Church, and as if there were no middle between separation from the Church and true worship thereof, and subscription unto or practise or approbation of all the corruptions in the same. An error, in some sort, formerly excusable when oppression (as Solomon saith, Eccles. 7.7.) and persecution made even wise men themselves mad, and sometimes in haste, between fear, grief and anger, in avoiding one extreme, to fall upon another. But now, since that by the miraculous mercy of God) the stings of those great Bees, are pulled out, and their horns sawed off, whereby they have so long afflicted, and willingly destroyed this poor Church, I say now, me thinks wise men should look before they leap, and so warily eschew one error as that they do not unwarily run into another, perhaps a worse.  
Lastly thou mayest be somewhat stayed, from hasty adhering, or inclining to their courses of separation, not only by the Treatise itself, but also by the consideration of the Treatisers. For though no man's person whatsoever can be a sufficient bottom whereon to settle any opinion or practice in Religion, but the Word of God, and right reason alone, yet is not these men's example, or testimony to be altogether slighted, especially in this controversy, wherein we are sometimes almost deaffed with the praises of some of the seperators eminent learning, piety, sincerity, zeal, etc. In which case I hope it need not be offensive to any, perhaps it may be profitable to some (according to the Apostles example in a case not altogether unlike, 2 Cor. 11.22. to oppose these men's learning, piety, sincerity, zeal, etc. against the others; Who as in all other things they were examples of holiness, so in this, that they have ever, not only for borne but steadfastly opposed to their great reproach, damage, and danger many ways, the corruptions in our Church-government, worship and Liturgy, and have been lights and leaders to these latter times therein, yet always in a peaceable and regular way, as not on the one side to subject themselves to suspicious inventions, so on the other, not sinfully to separate from the Communion and true worship of Churches; accounting it more agreeable to all rules of piety, charity, and Christian prudence to tolerate for the time, what they could not mend, rather than to rend and tear all in pieces, to an utter ruin.  
To conclude, though perhaps some few particulars in this treatise may seem more questionable, yet for the main I doubt not but the Authors have held close to the truth, both in their own positions, and in opposing their adversaries. By which therefore (good Reader) thou mayest reap much benefit, for thy better settling in these unsettled times, if thou be capable thereof, and if the Lord shall please to add his blessing thereunto. Which he shall never cease to pray for, who is, (all that he is) truly thine in Him,  
W R.   

THE PREFACE of the AUTHORS of the Treatise, ensuing to the READER.  
THE holy Apostle Saint Paul writing unto the Galathians these words, Brethren, If any man be fallen by occasion into any fault, you which are spiritual, restore such a one with the spirit of meekness, considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted: both showeth the danger of falling, whereunto they are subject, who stand in the Church of God, and prescribeth the duty of recovering those that are fallen unto such as are spiritual, That is to say, as are furnished with gifts thereunto, with the manner how all that aught to be performed: two necessary points in our judgements to be considered, and much tending to the preservation of the good and happy estate of the Church of God: for how cometh it to pass, that Satan so fare prevaileth against it; but for that weak men consider not the danger of falling, until they be down, and almost past recovering; those that are fallen, either not at all, or not until they be well near without remedy. It is therefore one especial part of holy wisdom, for men who think they stand, to take heed lest they fall, and therefore to seek to kneow the depth of Satan's policies and subtleties, and then the effectual means for the preventing of them, Into which if they carefully inquire they shall find, that though he seek to draw even those that have shined as stars in the Church, from heaven unto the earth; yet that he much more earnestly laboureth to make them wand'ring stars, forsaking the place wherein they seemed to be fixed, to give shine and direction to others, that is, though he laboureth and endeavoureth to bring men from their first love and zeal, unto a lukewarmness, or key coldness in the Church, yet he rather desireth to lead them into a fiery spirit, and indiscreet zeal from the Church and society of Saints, which no doubt he doth, as for many other causes; so for these two. 1. That he might by their departure, who have seemed zealous and godly professors, shake the faith of others, and cause them to doubt, that they are not in the true Church; where they may find directions toward the kingdom of heaven: and at last to fly from it, as from Babylon. And 2. that he might deprive those men themselves of the happy means of the recovery which they might have had easily applied, had they been in the Church, and remained in the fellowship thereof: Hence it is, that in the Church of God, those who breaking the holy bands of love and faith, have like unkind children forsaken her their natural mother, and oft pleaded with her as a strumpet, which never was done in more convenient manner then of late, by certain of our brethren, who having been brought forth of the womb, and brought up in the bosom of the Church of England, have not only renounced, as a stepmother: but condemned her, as one of the daughters, yea the eldest daughter of the very whore of Babylon, railing on her, as if she living in continual spiritual fornications, brought forth sons and daughters, not unto Christ; but unto Antichrist his adversary: By which their faults and fall, as they have deprived themselves of those gracious blessings which they did long, and might have still enjoyed amongst us to their soul's health, and made the means of their recovery more hard and difficult; so have they troubled and disquieted many remaining in the body of our Church, and of strong men in the truth, brought them to be children again in understanding, easy to be carried about with every blast of divers and strange doctrines, how contrary soever to the truth according unto godliness, either taught or received by them. The case thus standing, we take it to be our duties, being members and Ministers of this Church, having by God's grace received some, though a small measure of gifts fit thereunto, as to maintain the credit of the Church, wherein we live. And to justify the practice of our ministry therein, so fare forth as truth will permit; so chiefly to seek, and endeavour both the recovery of those that are strayed from the sheepfold of Christ amongst us, and also the stay of those that are ready to run after them, together with the better grounding, and confirming of them who remain in the flock, with comfort under their shepherds, which duty we have endeavoured to perform heretofore by public preaching, and private conferences as occasions hath been offered, and now have bestowed our labours in writing this treatise following, to the same end wherein after we have proved by certain reasons, that our Assemblies, are the true Church of God, we take upon us to show.  
First, The four chiefest exceptions, they take against our Church for warranting Schism, and separation from us are vain and frivelous.  
Secondly, That the main grounds they stand upon for the erecting their new Church, are weak and slender.  
Thirdly, that the best arguments that they use for condemning us, and justifying themselves, are lose and unsufficient: which points as we have gathered out of their printed books and written papers (where they were before scattered) and brought into one form and body, so have we more plainly, and nakedly, both proposed, and dealt in, passing by all impertinent, and offensive matters; And their flouting declamations, petitions, exclamations, and bitter reviling speeches against our Churches, Ministers, and people, all their reproachful slanderous profane scorn, fearful blasphemies against the Word preached, and Sacraments administered, prayers, and holy exercises of Religion, used in our Assemblies, wherewith their writings, and printings swell to some bigness, as Bladders puffed up with wind. All these (though we have given the Reader some taste of their spirit in them) yet have we not in our Treatise stood upon them, for that we judge them not worthy the answer.  
This work of ours, we commend, first unto our brethren departed from us, desiring them to read it, without partiality, self love, prejudice or other sinister affections, and with meekness, indifferency, and love of the Truth, desire to be informed, and readiness to be reform, where they err and go astray: It may be that God will give a blessing to it, nay sure we are, that he is faithful that hath promised, to give unto those that ask, to open to those that knock, and to cause them to find that seek, the truth in sincerity of their hearts, especially if to the reading thereof, they adjoin: First, a review of the books which have been written by the Ringleaders of their separations. Secondly, a view of the persons of whom their Assemblies consist. And Thirdly, a consideration of the estate wherein their Church now standeth. In the review of the books which have been written, we exhort them with single hearts, to examine the spirits where with the authors of them were led in their writing, and they shall find it not to be the good spirit of God, which filleth men's hearts with meekness, humility compassion, softness, holiness, and other sanctified affections, but that evil spirit of Satan, which under colour of zeal of God's glory, hatred of sin, desire of serving God in sincerity, thrusteth men whom it hath deceived into pride, self love, rashness, unnatural affections, uncharitable surmises, and most unchristian judgement of their brethren.  
Secondly, to weigh wisely what end they proposed to themselves in their writings, which will evidently appear to be not so much the clearing of themselves, from the crime of Schism, as the drawing of others to join with them, and the defacing of our Church, which they compare with the most Idolatrous, and heathenish Nations, that ever were, yea with Sodom and Babylon itself, and the disgracing the Ministers thereof, especially those whom heretofore they have most reverenced, whom they sort with most wretched Miscreants, judas, Cain, Balaam, and many other, upon whom the spirit of God hath set a fearful brand of eternal condemnation.  
Thirdly, to try carefully the allegations of Scripture, wherewith they have fully painted the Margins, and with the multitude, whereof they have astonished the simple, or credulous Readers, persuading them, that their cause standeth upon the same ground of God's holy Word, and they shall plainly perceive, that the places by them alleged, do for the most part prove that, which we deny not: And if they be brought to confirm the matter in controversy, they are either unconscionably, or ignorantly wrested against, or besides the meaning of the Holy Ghost. A second thing which we entreat them to do is, to view the persons of whom their Assemblies consist, and let them tell us how many of them there be, whom they have brought from gross ignorance, unto true knowledge, from infidelity, to holy Faith, from profaneness of life, to a conscionable walking with God; if there be scarce any amongst them, which have not been of some note in our Churches, for holy and sincere profession; and if they had no good thing in them, which they have not received by the ministry of those men, and in the bosom of those Churches, which now they condemn, and fly from, why then take they the Seal of our ministry, and Church, and set it unto their blank? Thirdly we exhort all of them to a survey of their estate, wherein they stand, which is (if that be true, which by some of their own hath been reported) full of disorder and confusion; And indeed how can it otherwise be, whereas they teach that every member of their Church may, and aught to stand up against their Ministers and Elders, to gainsay them in delivering of doctrine, and withstand the other in execution of discipline; If he be persuaded, the one erreth from the truth, and the other faileth in justice, is not this to make every member an eye, an ear, an head? And must not men be of Angelical perfection to preserve unity, where such large liberty is granted unto them?  
A second sort to whom we commend this labour of ours, be our brethren also who by the writings, do, and sufferings of these deceived men, are in danger likewise to be deceived, being brought to halt between two opinions. These also we pray to read it with an holy purpose, to be fully resolved, and settled in the truth. We hope their labour shall not be in vain, if they will accept from us these few advertisments.  
First, That they make not the example of any man seem he never so godly, religious, and zealous, but the Word of God only, the rule of their belief, and life; Paul himself must be followed no further, when the holy precepts of the Word, and the examples of the godly join together, we have the one to teach us, the other to incite us to do our duties.  
Secondly, That they carry an humble and lowly conceit of themselves, and their gifts.  
That they remember, 
1 Cor. 8.2. Galath. 6.3.  that if any man think he knoweth any thing, he knoweth nothing as he ought to know; And that if any man seem to himself, that he is somewhat, when he is nothing, he deceaveth himself in his imaginations.  
That to this purpose, they occupy themselves in consideration of their own wants, and sins, which cleave so fast unto them, rather than in the marking the blemishes, & noting the faults that are in others, following the counsel of the Apostle. 
Galath. 6.4.  Let every one prove his own work, and then shall he have rejoicing in himself only, and not in another.  
Thirdly, that they have a reverend opinion of those men by whose ministry they have been begotten unto God, or nourished in the truth, by whose labours they have been instructed, confirmed and comforted, in whose mouths the Word of God hath been unto them, as a two edged sword, entering through them unto the deviding a sunder the soul and spirit, the joints and the marrow, that they suffer not a sinful thought to enter into their heads, of their unlawful vocations, who have their hearts and souls, as Seals of their ministry, and may say to them as Paul to the Corinthians, 
1. Cor. 9. 1●.  are ye not my work in the Lord, if I be not an Apostle unto others, yet doubtless I am unto you, for you are the Seal of mine Apostleship in the Lord; whereof they should therefore be the more careful, for that it hath been an ancient and ordinary policy of Satan, that he might cause men to refuse the word brought unto them in the mouths of the Prophets, Apostles and other men of God, yea of Christ Himself to persuade them that they had no warrant of their vocarions, and calling from God.  
Fourthly, That if notwithstanding, all that is said for their instruction, and reformation in this behalf, they keep a liking of that draught of a Church, which our deceived Brethren have framed and commended in their writings, and desire to join themselves unto their society.  
They yet remember it is a part of wisdom, to stay the full establishing of their Church, and practise of the Ordinances thereof, for a time that they may see what blessings of God be upon it, for the ratifying and approving of their do: for if it be of God, it will stand as an house founded upon a a sure Rock, if it be of men, it will come to naught.  
A third sort to whom we commend this work of ours are our stronger brethren which continue with comfort in the society of their Church, them we entreat that if they find any confirmation or strengthening unto their consciences by the pursuing hereof, any increase of knowledge and ability to maintain the truth of our Church, Sacraments and word, to defend the lawfulness of our ministry, and practise of God's external worship amongst us.  
That first they praise God whose gift it is, that any thing is spoken, or written for their edification, instruction and consolation, and then bestow the same as occasion shall be offered, to the reclaiming of those that are strayed, and holding them that are ready to wander.  
We lastly commend this simple travel of ours to the Church of God, whereof we are unworthy Ministers, beseeching her to accept our poor endeavours, the rather, for that we are not ignorant that the labours which we have taken in this cause, will be diversely judged of, according to the manner and affection of those men to whom this work shall come.  
Some, as namely, our deceived Brethren against whom we deal, will hold it damnable and execrable, as being bestowed against the Church of Christ, against the Saints and children of God, against the holy Truth taught in the Testament of Christ; yea, and that contrary to the light of our own consciences, and knowledge of our own hearts.  
To the first part of this their charge and accusation, we answer; That whether they or we be the true Church of God: whether they or we have the Truth taught in the Testament of Christ, is the matter in controversy betwixt us. If we be the Church of God and have the Truth of Christ, as we hope shall appear by this Treatise, then have they written and spoken against the Church of God, and that in most shameful and fearful manner. If they be the true Church of God, and have his Truth (which we assure ourselves they shall be never able to prove) then have we spent our labours against the Church of God: But have we done it wittingly and willingly against the light of our hearts; This is indeed the second part of their charge: but who made them the searchers of our hearts, and judges of our consciences, that they should accuse us, to In other and quench the light of Truth, which hath shined into our souls, especially when they hear our protestations to the contrary, where is that Charity that thinketh none evil, which hopeth all things; we say therefore unto the second part of their accusation with the Apostle, We say the Truth in Christ, our consciences bearing us witnesses in the holy Ghost, that we can say nothing against the Truth; but for the Truth, wittingly and willingly. And in the Testamonie thereof we pray God that our tongues may cleave to the roof of our mouths when we endeavour to speak, and that our pens may stick to the ends of our fingers, when we attempt to write any thing against the Church, Children, or Truth of God.  
Some others, Fathers, and Brethren, Ministers, and Members with us of this Church, finding by our manner of writing of what judgemeut we are, will hold our pains requisite and necessary, to stay the course of these waters which we have given passage unto, and to make up the breaches we have opened, by speaking against the government established in this Church, the Ceremonies used therein; and other our unadvised deal in the execution of our Ministry.  
To these men we say first, that as we have been, and are persuaded of the Truth of these things which we have delivered, touching the defects and wants, the blemishes and deformities of this Church. So have we in the sincerity and uprightness of our hearts, dealt for the redress and Reformation thereof: Wherein, though we know nothing by ourselves before men, more than Truth will permit, if they should have taken occasion by our doctrine (which we persuade ourselves to be the doctrine of the Truth) to make this Schism; Yet were this no reason to reprove us, unless those men which have set down true positions be to be blamed, as Authors of the false Collections and Conclusions which are inferred and gathered thereupon.  
Secondly we answer, That our deceived Brethren do no less condemn those Churches of God, as the Synagogues of Satan, where the doctrine which we have taught touching the government of the Church, and matters of Ceremonies is maintained, and where all things which we hold offensive in our Church are abolished, than they do the Church of England, insomuch that they have written of the Church of Geneva (which is holden to be the best pattern of a Reformed Church) that it became a miserable precedent and pernicious example even unto all Europe: whereby it is evident that they have been brought unto this Schism by some other inducements than the dealing of those men inthe execution of their Ministry, who are charged to be the occasions, if not the Authors thereof.  
Thirdly, there is such difference and plain contradiction between them and us in judgement, yea in the matter of discipline and Church government, besides many other material points of doctrine, as we marvel any men should esteem us causes of their defections from this Church, much more that any man should write, That between the Brownists and others (he meaneth them and us) there is no controversy as touching the framing of a Church by the word of God.  
A third sort of our loving Brethren, approving our care of God's Church, and desire to reclaim poor deceived souls, will yet happily esteem our labour altogether needless and superfluous, as spent and bestowed both against a cause that hath so little show of truth and semblance of probability; nay so evident appearance of falsehood and vanity, as it is rather to be despised then confuted, and also upon men, whose zeal and rashness so far prevails over sound judgement, and discretion, that we shall rather sharpen and increase their humour, (by thinking them worthy answering) to a further contradiction, then either inform their understanding by sound reason, or alter their affection by efficacy of any persuasion.  
These Brethren we desire to give us leave to descent from them, who judge far otherwise of this cause, we handle and hope much better of the persons against whom we deal: for the cause itself we say, that though it did appear, as it is indeed full of falsehood and and vanity unto these that have the gift to discern between those things that differ, and withal to temper their affections (which is the reason it prevaileth not with any such to their seduction) yet unto men of weak judgements and strong affections, or of more heat than knowledge, it seemeth far otherwise, who are not in our judgements to be contemned and suffered to be so headlongly carried in so violent a course, but rather with compassion to be reclaimed, and with meekness to be restored by such as are spiritual; If it please the Lord to give a blessing to their labour so spent and employed.  
Secondly, seeing this Heresy of theirs doth not only seek to untile the House of God built amongst us, nor to break down the walls only, but even to overthrow the whole fram thereof, taking away the Pillars whereon it standeth, the preaching of the Word and administration of the Sacraments: Yea digging up the very foundation thereof, and taking Christ from us whom (as they say) we preach not, but deny in all his offices, were the falsehood and blasphemy thereof never so apparent, yet were not the labour needless, and superfluous, that is spent in confuting thereof.  
Thirdly, Seeing this cause hath been thought to be of such weight and regard, that it hath brought the High Court of Parliament to make a sharp Law for the preventing of the mischiefs thereof, shall it be thought a matter unnecessary and fruitless for Ministers to deal withal, especially where Laws politic can but draw the outward man to conformity which is but Hypocrisy unless the Law of God be annexed thereunto for the converting of the soul, and bringing the inward man, to do that inwardly, and sincerely which outwardly it performeth.  
Lastly, We have the examples of divers Learned and godly brethren to warrant our do, and to persuade us of the necessity of this labour, who either by commandment from authority, or of their own motions by occasions offered unto them, have dealt not only by disputation and conference, but also by writing and printing for the suppression of this Schism and reclaiming these men. For the persons against whom we writ, though we hold them all to be in a dangerous estate (we are loath to say in a damnable estate) as long as they continue in this Schism, and have cause to fear that Satan's subtleties abusing the gifts that are in them, and drawing them to pride, and conceit of themselves hath hardened some of them so in their Schism, that they will hardly be reclaimed, yet hope we, that as many of them have been brought bacl again to the Church, who strayed away with them, so the rest may in time be brought to a sight of their own error by good means effectual thereunto, such as God hath sanctified to that end, and promised to accompany with the gracious assistance of his holy spirit: This labour therefore of ours, we trust shall not be in vain, but have that work in them for their recovery by the blessing of God.  
If God vouchsafe us not this favour to be happy instruments of their good, yet doubt we not, but he that is witness unto our Consciences, how we long after their salvation, yea even from our hearts roots; will be our strength, and our judgement and work shall be with him; though they be not gathered. But if it be remembered that our labours have been bestowed, 
Esay 49.4, 5.  not only to raise them that are fallen already; but also to stay them that stagger, and strengthen them that stand upright: though it should be utterly unprofitable unto the former sort; yet being likely to prevail with others, to their benefit, it cannot but be acceptable unto God, and comfortable unto ourselves, and so neither superfluous nor unnecessary.  
This now only remaineth (Christian reader) that before we commend this treatise to God's blessing, we advertise thee of two things needful for thee to know: First, whereas to many rash and hot spirited men it may seem, that we have dealt in this cause too remissly, so that we have justified the corruptions of our Church, as hath been objected against others heretofore; We answer, that our dealing may well indeed seem too remiss, whilst the reader shall compare it with over bitter, untrue, yea, and slanderous biting and invectives of our Brethren: but being compared with itself, and with our Church, as in itself it standeth, we hope it will appear (sure we are that our knowledge) we have not justified the least thing therein worthy to be condemned.  
Secondly, whereas the work is somewhat long, and therefore somewhat wearisome to the Reader: Know that we desired to be much more brief therein then we are, both for that, not the reading so much as the writing of it out by them, that after the reading of it may desire it, must needs be tedious; as also; for that fewer words and reasons might have as well satisfied the learned sort: but whereas our desire is to satisfy the simple, as having more need; by framing divers answers unto the arguments and proofs which we confute, and to make them plain to their capacity and understanding, we could not use more brevity without more obscurity. And thus we commend thee to God, and to his blessing upon the reading hereof, that it may be a means to teach thee to discern the things that differ, and to keep thee from thy being overmuch just, lest thou become too wicked. Amen.   

A Collection of the chief Heads, of this book.  

I. Certain exceptions they take, and faults they find withus; viz. With our, 

I Church in general and the whole frame of Our Assemblies which they affirm to be false and Antichristian, because; 

1. They were not rightly gathered, pag. 8.  
2. They communicate together in an outward worship of God that is polluted with the writings and inventions of men, pag. 12.  
3. They want the true discipline of Christ, page 17.  
4. They submit themselves to false, and Antichristian discipline, page. 19  
5. They obstinately continue in the aforesaid wants and corruptions, having been convinced, page 21.    
II. Ministers whom they affirm to be false and Antichristian. 

1. The Office whereunto we are called, is not that which Christ hath ordained, but that which Antichrist calleth his Priests unto. page 28.  
2. Their entrance is not according to Christ's Ordinance, but also Antichristian. p. 34.  
3. Their administration and exercise of their office, is not according to Christ's Ordinance, but Antichristian forms of prayer. p. 39  
4. Their maintenance is jewish, and Antichristian, viz. by tithes, etc. pag. 42.    
III. People and the private members of our Assemblies, whom they say to be such as no true Church, can consist of. 

1. Because they are not a separated people from the world. pag. 50.  
2. They are not Saints faithful. pag. 51.  
3. They tolerate the openly profane p. 52    
Two certain conclusions, which they infer upon the foresaid exceptions viz. 

1. Therefore the Assemblies we separate from are such, as the Scriptures do warrant us to separate from. pag. 57  
2. Therefore the Assemblies we join unto, are such as the Scriptures do warrant us to join unto. p. 62.        

THE Church of Engl. is a true Church OF CHRIST.  

I. EXCEPTION.  
THe first Exception is against the whole body of our Assemblies and our Church in General, which they term Babylonish Synagogues and a whorish Idolatrous Church, Henry Barrow in his discovery of the false Church, Page 24.  

ANSWER.  
THat the Church of England is a true Church of Christ, 
Our Congregations are true Churches For, Arg. 1. We have and ●oyne together in the use of the preaching of the Gospel and administ ration of the Sacraments.  and such an one, as from which whosoever wittingly and willingly separateth himself, cutteth himself from Christ, we doubt not but the indifferent Reader may be persuaded by these reasons following.  
First, We enjoy and join together in the use of those outward means which God in his Word hath ordained for the gathering of a visible Church: for proof whereof we allege, that the means which we use and enjoy, have been effectual to the unfeigned conversion of many, as may appear, both by the other fruits of faith, and by the Martyrdom which sundry have endured that were Members of our Church, and had no other means of conversion than such as we have: Yea even those men, who judge so hardly of us now are able to witness with us in this case. That if their be any true faith and sanctification in them (though it be much increased, as they think, since they left us) yet it was begun and bred in our Assemblies.  
Secondly, If these places of holy Scripture, March. 28.20. Eph. s. 4.11, 14. be well examined, it will be found that the means, which Christ ordained for the gathering of a visible Church, are the very same which we enjoy, even the preaching of the word, and administration of the Sacraments. That which Henry Barrow saith against us, in this point pag. 160. of his discovery (viz.) that there is not any one thing amongst us either in order, or administration according to Christ's Testament, shall be hereafter disproved, when we shall come to justify our Ministry of the Word and Sacraments against their arguments or Objection whatsoever.  
Now that this is an infallible and good argument of a true Church, appeareth: 
Which is an in fallible note of a true Church.  because; First, There cannot any people be named, that, having these means, may yet by the word be evicted not to have been the true Church. The Papists indeed brag of these means, but without cause, for the doctrine of faith is not preached amongst them, but oppugned, and consequently they cannot have the true Sacraments which are Seals of righteousness, 
Rom. 3.12. & 9, 4.  which is by faith. Secondly, the Scripture every where speaketh of the preaching of the Word, and administration of the Sacraments, as of privileges peculiar to the Church of God. 
psalm. 147.19.20.   
So while the Jenes only were the Church, these privileges were restrained to them, 
Matth. 10 56.  and never made common to the Gentiles till the partition wall being broken down, 
Acts 11.19. & 23.  they also were incorporated to the Church of God.  
So the Prophet saith, 
Arg. 2.  that this should be the reason, why the Gentiles were moved to join themselves unto the true Church, because there and no where else the Ministry of the Word was to be found.  
Secondly, Our whole Church maketh profession of the true faith: The confession of our Church, together with the Apology thereof, and those Articles of Religion which were agreed upon in the Convocation House, in the Year of the Lord 1562. (whereunto every Minister of the Land is bound by Law to subscribe, so fare forth as they concern the confession of faith, and the doctrine of the Sacraments) do prove this evidently; for how shall we better judge of the faith which our Church professeth, than by such evidence. Many Papists and Atheists, are in our Land. we grant, and many ignorant and wicked men besides, who make not so clear and so holy profession of the true faith, as they should: but that our Church accounteth any one to be her Child, or member, who either denieth Christ, or professeth any other way to salvation, than faith which worketh by love, or who doth not profess this faith an some measure, we confidently deny. Now this reason also hath force sufficient to prove us the true Church; for as true faith in Christ is that which giveth the life and being to such as are effectually called, and so become Members of the Invisible, and Elect Church; so the profession of true saith, is that which giveth life and being to a visible Church: Upon this profession we find many that have been incorporated into the visible Church, and admitted to the privileges thereof, even by the Apostles themselves: 
Act: 8.37, 38. & 16.31.32. & 12.  Yea and Simon Magus, though he had neither faith, nor the spirit of God, yet because he made profession of faith, was judged a member of the visible Church, and baptised. So the Church of Pergamus, 
Act. 8 13. Revel. 2.12, 15.  though it did toletate gross corruptions in it; it kept the faith of Christ, and denied not his faith, and was still called the Church of God.  
The description of a Church, which they give in the page 67. 
See our further answer to this in the defence we make for our people against the second Article of their third exception.  of their collection of Letters and conferences (viz.) That it is a company of faithful people that truly worship Christ, and readily obey him; is utterly untrue, it it be understood (as needs it must) of the visible Church; for it every one that the Church may account a visible member, be truly faithful, how is our Saviour to be understood, when he compareth the Church or Ministry to a draw-net, which being east into the Sea, gathereth as well that which must be cast away, as good Fish: 
* Matth. 13.47, 48.  And to a field, where the Devil doth as busily sow tares, as the Son of Man doth good Wheat? 
* Matth. 13.37 39  or how shall that difference stand, which the Scripture maketh betwixt the Lord's judgement, and the judgement of men, if men may not account any members of the Church by their outward appearance, and profession; 
1 Sam. 1617. Acts 13.28.  unless they know them to have true faith? which thing the Lords eye is only able to discern.  
Thirdly, We hold, and teach, and maintain, against all Heretics, 
Arg. 3.  and adversaries, every part and Article of God's holy truth, which is fundamental, and such, as without the knowledge, and believing whereof, there is no salvation. Our confessions, Catechisms. Articles of Religion, published, and approved of our Church, may persuade all indifferent men of this: Yet was not Henry Barrow ashamed to write in the 10th. page of his discovery.  
That all the Lares of God, both of the first, and second Table are here broken, and forsaken, both of the Ecclesiastical, and Civil estate, and of every particular person in both, all things being innovated in both, according to the justs and pleasures of men, the Law, and Word of God being quite rejected and cast aside.  
And in the 212. page of their refutation of Master Gifford, They have these words; We hold that you have poisoned all the fountains of sincere doctrine, and perverted the whole Testament, and turned away the practice thereof by your damnable false expositions: Yea, that you teach not one point sincerely. And in the 162. page of this discovery. They are made socontrary one to another, as it is an impossible thing, to find two of them in one mind; yea, or any one of them constant in that he affirmeth, they know not the Doctrine even of the beginning of Christ. Add hereto Henry Barrowes words, 12 and 23. pages of their collections of Letters, and conference. We will not give any answer to these speeches, but only desire the Christian Reader to consider, whether ever God's Spirit taught any to write so slanderously; not only against a whole Nation, (the conversion whereof they pretend to seek) but against the blessed Truth of God; And how unlikely it is that they should be in the right way, whose chief leaders were guided by such a spirit: That they should be the Lords building, whose first founders and Master bvilders, had either so small skill, or so bad a Conscience: Do we not hold all the same books of Canonical Scriptures which they themselves do? Do we not reject out of the Canon all which themselves account Apocryphal? Have they any translation of holy Scripture besides ours? Do they themselves believe, or teach otherwise in the Articles of the holy Trinity, of justification, of predestination than we do? Hath every member of their Assemblies recovered that spirit of truth, whereby they are led into all truth; as Henry Barrow, page 107. of his discovery affirmeth? And is there not any one amongst us that hath not quite rejected the whole Word of God? Not any one that knoweth the doctrine even of the beginning of Christ? We know no better way to convince them in this, then by appealing unto their Consciences, which we are sure will take our parts against them.  
Now this reason also is strong to prove us a true Church, for although the bare letter of the Scripture may be found amongst the Jews and Papists, and other Heretics. 
Which none ran do but the true Church.  Yet was there never any people, that held and maintained the true sense of the Scripture, in all points fundamental, but only the Church of God, whereunto only this title belongeth to be the pillar and ground of truth: 
1 Tun. 3.15. A people may be a true Church though they hnow not nor hold every truth contained in the Scriptures.  wherein we desire the Reader to consider that a people may be the true Church, though they know not, nor hold not every truth contained in the holy Scriptures, but contrarily hold many errors repugnant to the Scriptures. Yet hath Henry Barrow affirmed in the 167. page of his discovery: That to the people of God, and every one of them, God hath given his holy sanctifying spirit, to open unto them, and lead them unto all truth, Whereby it is most evident, that he would have none to be accounted the people and Church of God, who either know not, or practise not every truth contained in the holy Scriptures. In which opinion, see, I pray you how gross and dangerous errors are contained.  
First, That to every inseriour member in the Church, there is as much reveiled as to the Pastors, and chief members, whereas the Apostle affirmeth, 
Romans 12.3. Ephes 4 16. eol. 2.19.  that the Holy Ghost is given to every member of the body of Christ, not equally, but proportionably, as the place, which it occupieth in the body doth require.  
Secondly, That the promise mentioned, john 16.13. Should be made to every member of the Church: which in the last words of the verse appeareth plainly to be particular to the Apostles.  
Thirdly, That the Church cannot err: and so neither were the Corinthians rightly called the Church of God, when they judged corruptly of fornication, and of the Resurrection; Neither they of Pergamus when the Doctrine of Balaam was maintained among them; Neither were Paul, and the rest of the Apostles, true Members of the Church, who (though in the exercises of their Apostolical function, they could not err) yet knew but in part and in many things were subject to error. 
(a) 1 Cor. 13 9   
Another strange opinion is amongst them maintained in the 156,157. of the discovery (viz.) That every truth contained in the Scripture is fundamental: For (although we affirm not (as he thereslandereth us) That some part of Scripture is more holy, more authentical, or more true than other. 
Note.  Yet doubt we not to say, that some parts are of more use, and more necessary for men to know then, othersome. Else, why doth the Holy Ghost oft give special commendation to some parts, more than to other; 
1 Tim 4.11. Titus 3.8. Make 4. 3●.  why doth he (as it were make Proclamation, and solemn oyesses before some, and not before other? Why doth he use a special art in some parts, rather than in other? And although we do not hold (as they falsely charge us in the forenamed page of their discovery) That some parts of holy Scripture are of small moment, superficial, needless, and of no necessity: such as may be altered and violated without any prejudice, or danger at all to the soul, and much less that a man that hath obstinately continued in the transgression of some parts, and openly taught the same unto others, may be undoubtedly saved, though he die without Repentance: but on the contrary we believe, and teach that there is no part of holy Scripture, which every Christian is not necessarily bound to seek, and desire the knowledge of, so fare forth as in him lieth: yet dare we not call every truth fundamental, that is, such as if it be not obeyed and known, the whole Religion, and faith of the Church must needs fall to the ground. For we do make no question, but that the thief that was crucified, and the Eunuch even then when he was baptised by Philip, were in the state of salvation, though they could not choose but be ignorant of many truths in Religion.  
The only fundamental truth in Religion, is this, That Jesus Christ the Son of God, who took our nature of the Virgin Mary, is our only and all-sufficient Saviour. For first, they that receive this truth are the people of God, and in the state of salvation, they that receive it not, cannot possibly be saved. 
(a) Mat. 16.17 104.2. Col. 3.17. john 20.31. Ephos. 2.20.  Secondly, There is no other point of Christian Religion necessary, otherwise then as it tendeth necessarily to the bringing us unto, or confirming us in the assurance of this one truth 
(b) Heb. 13.8. 1 Cor. 2.2. Eph. s. 2.19, 22.  and therefore when the Apostle saith that the Church is built upon the foundation of the Prophets and Apostles, his meaning is not to call every thing contained in their writings, the foundation of the Church. But that this foundation we have spoken of, is there to be found, and hath witnesses from thence, and that all the writings, and doctrines of the Apostles and Prophets do bend unto, stay and rest upon this one truth, as the walls in the building, upon the chief corner stone.  
Lastly, 
Arg. 4. All reformed Churches give the Testimony to us.  All the known Churches in the world acknowledge our Church for their Sister, and give unto us the right hand of fellowship. This Henry Barrow, and john Greenewood deny in their 14. page of their refutation; but they name not any one Church that maketh question of us, whether we were the true Church or no: never yet was there any reformed Church made that question. They are well acquainted with our Church, by the report of them that have traveled from bence and sundry other ways, with our doctrine and liturgy, our wants and corruptions every one. Neither do they only forbear to show their dislike to us, or are content to preserve society with us, which happily through humane infirmity, they might do upon sinister respects (though they approved not of us in judgement, but they do also hold and teach, that what people soever hath so much as we, is the true Church, though the wants and corruptions are as great as ours are.  
Now when we allege for ourselves the testimonies of the Churches, 
Which strongly argueth that we are the true Church.  we do not thereby (as these men fond conclude in the 14. page of their refutation) make the word of men, the foundation of our Church; Nor do we use these as our only and chief defence; whereby we seek to approve ourselves either unto the Lord, or to the Consciences of his people; but such an argument we take this to be, as in his due place, hath much force in it; and as God Himself hath sanctified for a principal help in deciding of controversies in this kind, the Apostles use to allege it as a matter of comfort to them whom they writ unto, that the Churches of Christ salute them 
(a) Rom. 16.16. 1 Pet. 5 13.  that they were famous and had the good report of the Church's 
(b) Rom. 16.19. 2 Cor. 8 18, 19, 23.24. Galah. 1.2.  Saint Paul though he received not his calling either from men, or by men (c) nor was any whit inferior to the chief Apostles 
(d) 2 Cor. 12.11.  yet doth he allege for the credit of his ministry, that the chiefest Apostles approved him, and gave to him the right hand of fellowship; 
(e) Gal. 2.9.  Yea, 
(f) Gal. 2.2.  he sought also their approbation, and feared, that without it, he should have run in vain. And which is yet more, he seeketh to win commendation and credit, even to those which he by his Apostolical authority, might have established by the example and judgement of other churches: If those Churches, which were planted by the Apostles themseltes, might take comfort in the good opinion that other Churches had of them: May not we much more? If the Ministry of Paul, and orders he prescribed to the Church, received further credit by the approbation of the Churches: Then their approbations give some credit to the ministry and orders of the Church now.  
The doctrine and word of God (though to speak properly it received authority only from itself, and the Spirit of God) yet hath it ever been the rather received by men, for the testimony the Church hath given unto it. So our Saviour Christ saith, That Wisdom is justified of her Children, 
Matth. 11.19. john 5.34.  and although he affirmeth, that he received not the record of men; Yet in respect of the salvation and good it men, he judgeth it necessary, 
John 1.7, 8, & 5, 33, 34.  that john Baptist should give Testimony unto him. Now if this one thing furthered the damnation of the unbelieving jews, that they would not hear nor receive Christ, though testimony were given of him by one whom they knew to be sent of God: shall not this further the condemnation of these men, that they refuse to hear, and receive us, though we be commended unto them by the testimony of so many Churches of God? Some cases there be wherein we are commanded to seek for the judgement of the Churches, and to account it the judgement of God, else why did the Church at Antioch in a question that could not be debated at home, seek to the Church at Jerusalem, for help especially, seeing they had two such excellent men with them as Paul and Barnabas, whose judgements they might safely have trusted unto: 
(d) Acts 15.2.  saith our Saviour, that whatsoever they bind on earth, shall be bound also in heaven, 
(e) Matth. 18 18.  and saith he not also to Churches of other Nations? Shall he be accounted as an heathen, or a Publican, that will not regard the judgement and censure of the particular Congregation, whereof he is a member 
(f) Matth 18.17.  and shall they not be much more accounted so, that despise the judgement of all the Churches? Must the spirits of the Prophets be subject to the Prophets, amongst whom we live 
(g) 1 Cor. 14.32.  and must not both people and Prophets be subject to all the Prophets and Churches in the world? The ability to try and discern the spirits and doctrines of such teachers as arise in the Church is such a gift as the true Church never wanted 
(h) 1 joh. 4.1. Revel. 2.2.  neither could it be the pillar and ground of truth 
(i) 1 Tim 3.15.  if it should be ignorant of a truth, so necessary to the salvation of men as this is, (viz.) What people is accounted to be the true Church of God: if God hath given his Church power to judge and pronounce a particular man, that he is in the state of salvation, and that so infallibly, that he hath promised to ratify in heaven, the judgement which the Church shall in this case give upon earth 
(k) Matth. 18 18.  may it not be said that he hath much more made the Church able to discern and pronounce of a Congregation or people, that is a true visible Church, which is a matter of no such difficulty as the other? So that to conclude, though those men make so light of the judgement and testimony of other Churches, 
1 Cor. 14 36.  as if the Word of God had come out from them only, or, as if themselves were able to judge of us better than all the godly learned besides; Yet do we take much comfort and assurance from hence, that we are the true Church of God. Now it remains that we answer such reasons, as are objected against our Church bythem.   

Objections answered.  
THe first thing that they object against our Church, 
Object. I. The objection against the whole body of our Church, is that it was not rightly gathered.  and our parish assemblies, is this: That it was not rightly gathered by such means as God in his Word hath ordained and sanctified for the gathering of his Church. For saith Henry Barrow, in the 10th page of his discovery. All the people were in one day, with the blast of Queen Elizabeth's Trumpet, of ignorant persons, and gross Idolaters made faithful Christians, and true Prophets. And in the third page of that Epistle to the Reader, which they have presixed to their refutation of Master Gifford, they have these words. Where such profane multitudes were immediately changed from public Idolaters and on an instant received, or rather compelled to be members of this Church, in some parish or other, without any due calling to the saith, by the preaching of the Gospel going before, or orderly joining together in the faith, there being no voluntary, or particular confession of thein own faith and duties, made nor required of any, who can say, that those Churches were ever rightly gathered, or built according to the Rule of CHRIST'S Testament?   

ANSWER, I.  
To all that they thus object against our first gathering this answer, we give.  
First, That we might be counted a true Church, though it could not appear that we were at the first rightly gathered, for even as the Disciples might be well assured of Christ's bodily presence, when they saw and felt him, though they could not perceive which way, or how he could possibly come in, so may we esteem them a true Church, of whose present profession and faith, we are well assured though we cannot see by what means they were first gathered; Else we may still doubt, whether Melchisedech and the families of job, were true Churches and members of the Church, because how they were first gathered, and made a Church, or of whom, we know not; and yet we are now certainly persuaded that they are a Church. Nay, we find good warrant in the word to the contrary, for we read of many, (who having by that they heard, and saw) perceived evidently, that a people were the Church of God, did join themselves willingly unto them, without enquiring how they were gathered or converted, as Abraham to Melchisedech, Rahab to Israel, the Eunuch to Philip, the Gaoler to Paul and Silas.  
Secondly, We might be rightly gathered to the society, 
secondly, We might be gathered to an outward profession, and to the society of the visible Church by some other means, then by preaching of the Word Confutation of Mr. Gifford page 152. and in the collection of slanderous Articles, page 44, 45.  and fellowship of the visible Church, by other means then by the preaching of the Gospel: for proof whereof, we allege their own judgement and opinion, (which howsoever it be, yet hath force enough to stop their mouths) namely, that men may be won to the true faith of Christ, not extraordinarily, but even ordinarily, also by other means than the public and ministerial preaching of the Word. For if several Members may be converted without this means, may not they much rather without it be gathered together, and made an assembly?  
Secondly, Admit there were no other means, whereby a man could be sound converted, but only preaching: Yet it is evident, that by some other means, men may be lawfully brought to an outward profession, and so made a visible Church. Many in the days of Christ were prepared to hear and believe, and did also follow him, and profess themselves his Disciples, that no man could, without sin, have denied them to be members of the visible Church, who yet were not all drawn by his word. But some by his Miracles, 
(a) john 2.23, 24.  some by the report they heard of him 
(b) john 4.39.  some by desire 
(c) john 6.24, 26.  they had to be fed by him. Some Kings became nursing Fathers, and Queens nursing Mothers to the Church, their Laws have been means to bring men to outward society of the Church. And the practice of josiah proveth, that men may be compelled by the Magistrate, to serve the lord 
(d) Chron. 34.32, 33.  Now as many hearing of the fame of john Baptist, and of Christ came unto them, and so were converted by their preaching: 
thirdly, Our Churches were first converted, and gathered by teaching of the Word.  so many that for fear of the Law, were first brought to the Church and outward profession of the truth have been and are effectually converted by the ministry of the Word.  
Thirdly, Our Church was gathered by the preaching of the Word. For, the first conversion of the faithful of our Land, was by the preaching of the Gospel, as is manifested by the testimonies of the best approved Histories; Since that time, many have been from age to age, called by the same means, as by the ministry of Master Wickliff, and such like, for proof whereof this may serve that in most of the King's days there have been some, which have endured Martyrdom for the truth. These secret ones did gather others secretly, so long as persecution continued, and shown themselves openly, when liberty was granted; In the days of King Edward, great numbers were by preaching, so effectually called, that in Queen Mary's Reign, many simple men and women, were able to maintain the truth, against the learnedst Papists, and to seal it with their blood. Besides them, there were many secret Congregations in many parts of the Land, all the days of Queen Marie, which gladly received, and openly professed the Gospel offered unto them, by public authority, at her Majesty's entrance to the Crown. If it be said, that they ceased to be the true Churches of Christ because they joined themselves, and became one body, with such as were newly come from Idolatry, (and that not of conscience, but for fear only:) we answer; that they rather, that were fallen from the Gospel in Queen Mary's days, were moved by Queen Elizabeth's Proclamation, to join themselves unto them, that had stood faithful all that while: Neither is it truly said of them, that in one day, by the blast of Her Majesty's Trumpet, at the beginning of her Reign, all sorts of men were drawn to a profession of the Gospel, without any further means used, for before any were compelled to the profession of the Gospel; which was not till Midsummer, after her Majesty came to the Crown, there were not only many Commissioners sent unto all the parts of the Land, that they might deface all the monuments of Idolatry, but sundry Preachers also, which in the days of Queen Mary, had received approbation, and exercised their ministry in some of the best reformed Churches beyond the Seas, did by their doctrine both keep them, whom they found converted) in the profession of the truth, and called many others, of which number we may reckon, Master Knox, Leave, Gilbie, Samson, Whitingham, Goodman; and sundry others. And there were daily added to the Church, by no other means, then by the ministry of the Word preached. So that if this were a good reason against other particular members, or whole families, yet it cannot justify a separation from all, seeing we have many that by the preaching of the word of God, were converted and gathered.  
Fourthly, This being proved that there was a true Church in the Land before Her Majesty's Reign, 
Fourthly though the means used for the gathering our Church had not been sufficient for the first calling a people to the faith, yet were the sufficient for the recalling of the people that had fallen from the faith which formerly they had professed.  the question must not be whether the means she used, were the right means for the calling, and converting a people to the faith, but whether she took a lawful course for recalling, and reuniting of Her Subjects unto those true professors whose fellowship they had forsaken; this was the course which Jehosaphat took, 
(a) 2 Chro. 17.8.  who (to gather the Church which was divided) sent preachers into sundry parts of his Kingdom, and appointed Noble men to accompany and assist them by countenancing their ministry, and compelling the people to hear them.  
This course also did josiah take, who having abolished Idolatry compelled all his subjects to the service of the true God; 
(b) 2 Chr. 34.33. 2 Chro. 14 4. 2 Chro. 15.13.  Thus did Asa use his authority, in commanding juda to seek the Lord, and to do according to the Law, and Commandment, and threatening them with death, that should resuse: So did Hezekiah by his Proclamation bring divers of Israel to jerusalem, who were before separated from the Church of God. 
(c) Chro. 30, 12.   
Fifthly, Whereas they say, that at the beginning of her Majesty's Reign, the people should have been required with solemn oath and covenant to renounce Idolatry, and to profess faith, and true obedience to the Gospel, after the example of Asas reformation; We answer.  
First, If it had been absolutely necessary to the being of a Church that there should be such a solemn covenant by oath, to renounce Idolatry; this course should be taken in that reformation which Ichosaphat and josiah made, as well as that which Asa made.  
Secondly, even where this oath was taken, it was Gods true Church before the time of that oath and covenant made by Asa, we read it was made and taken in the 15. year of his Reign, when yet his subjects were the true Church long before.  
Secondly, There be divers congregations in our Land, which in the beginning of her Majesty's days, and since, have publicly professed their repentance, for their former Idolatry, and promised to embrace and obey the truth, as it is profently established; as in Coventry, North-hampton, and some other places. Yea, we doubt not to affirm, that the whole Land; in the Parliament, holden in the first year of her Majesty's Reign, did enter into a solemn covenant with the Lord, for the renouncing of Popery and reciaving the Gospel.   

OBJECT. II.  
The second thing they object against the whole body of our Assemblies is this: 
Object. The second Objection against the whole body of our Church is, that it useth a worship of God which is polluted with the writings of men, as, read, stinted prayers. Answ.  That they communicate together in a false and Idolatrous worship of God, which is polluted with the writings of men, (viz.) With read stinted prayers, Homilies, Catechisms, and such like; which in the 24. page of their refutation, they call the smoke of the bottomless pit.  
To this Objection we give this answer. First, That it is evident by the Word, that the Church hath used, and might use lawfully in God's worship, and prayer, a stinted form of words: for we find a form of blessing the people prescribed to the Priests, 
f Numb. 6.23, 24  a form of confession to be used at the bringing of the first fruits to the Temple prescribed to the people, 
g Deut. 26.13, 15.  A psalm appointed for the Priests, and Levites, to use every Morning. 
h Psalm 22.1.  Another to be used every Sabbath day: 
i Psalm 92.  So in the thanksgiving used at the bringing home of the Ark, unto the place prepared for it by David, the Church tied themselves to the very words of 105. and 96. Psalms; 
k 1 Chro. 16.8, 36.  and as one Evangelist reporteth, that our Saviour appointed that prayer which he gave to His Disciples to be a pattern to frame all other prayers by. 
l Matth. 6 9 Luke 11.2. Object.  So the other Evangelist reporteth, that he had them when they prayed, say, Our Father, etc. Which he would never have done, if it had not been lawful for us in making those petitions to God, to use those very words which are there prescribed.  
Now to that, they object against this, that we never read, the Apostles did use this prescript form of words in prayer.  
We answer, 
Answ.  That it is absurd negatively to prove from examples of men, against that which God in His Word so expressly, either commanded, or permitted; for we may as well reason thus: That we do not read that the Apostles, or the Church in their time, did baptise Infants. Ergo, They were not then baptised: or thus, We do not read, that the Apostles did pray, either before, or after they preached, Ergo, They did not: Or thus, Saint Paul did not marry, nor take maintenance from the Corinthians, Ergo he might not lawfully have done it. The most Psalms, that David made, as they were committed to the Church Musicians; That in singing them, were tied to the very words that David set down; so they were not sung as Meditations and doctrines for the instruction of the Church, but as prayers unto God. This is evident not only by the manifold petitions and thanksgivings unto God, that are to be found in them, but by this especially, that they are said to be sung unto the Lord.  
And as by that which hath been said, it may appear that set and prescript forms are lawful in those prayers and thanksgivings that are used upon ordinary occasions; 
Secondly, A stinted and set form of words is lawful, even to the extraordinary prayers.  So it is also evident, that they may be lawfully used even in those prayers, and thanksgivings, that (being taken up) on extraordinary occasions, do require an extraordinary, and special fervency of the spirit, for which we have the example of our Saviour Christ Himself, 
Mat. 26.42, 44.  who used the very same words three times severally b even in that prayer, which he made with all holy excess of fervent affection.  
And this may lawfully be done, not only in those forms which we frame and devise ourselves, 
Thirdly, It is lawful to tie ourselves (in prayer) even to that form of words which have been devised and used by others. 2 Chro. 6.41, 42. Psalm. 132.8.10. 2 Chron. 5.13. Psalm. 136.1. Psalm 136.1. 2 Chron. 20.21. 2 Chron. 29.30. 4. A prescript form of words bathe been some times commanded to be used in extraordinary occasions. Hosca 14. 3● joel 2.13.  but in them also which we find to have been used by the good servants of God in former times, upon the like occasions to those that befall us now So Solomon useth, in the Dedication of the Temple, that very Psalm which David vowed to use at the bringing of the Ark to his house; and in the bringing of the Tabernacle and holy Vessels into the House of God, he useth the same words of another Psalm. So Jehosaphat useth the same words of the same Psalm, in that excellent thanksgiving which he maketh to God. Hezekiah caused thanks to be given, in the same words unto God, as David, and Asaph had used before. Yea, this manner of praying, and praising in set and prescript forms of words, even upon extraordinary occasions, we find directly commanded fundry times. So the Prophets expressly set forth what words should be used among the people.  
And which is yet more, we find a set, and prescript form of words to be used in extraordinary occasions, appointed long before that those occasions fell out. So we read of a form of thanksgiving, 
Fourthly, it hath sometimes been prescribed long before the occasions fell out. Esa 12.3, 4. 1 King. 8.47. Daniel 9.5. jer. 33.11. Ezra 3.11.  appointed to be used by the Church at Christ's coming, and Solomon, prescribeth a form of confession, to be used by the Church in captivity, which form Daniel in the name of the Church used. So jeremy appointeth the 136. Psalm to be used by the people, for a form of thanksgiving, after their return from captivity, which was also used accordingly by then: whereupon this will follow, that unless they can take exception, to the matter of our prayers (which shall afterwards be considered of) they may not blame us for the stinted and prescript form of prayers we use, and that if we want fervency of spirit, in our prayers, 
That also which they object against our Catechisms is of no force, for first, it is lawful to collect out of the word, and to teach in order the principles of Religion.  the fault is to be imputed to the corruption of our own hearts, and not to the prescript forms we use.  
Concerning the Catechisms used in our Church, we answer; first, It is evident by the Scripture, that the Church hath for the instruction of the people, not only taught, and delivered the holy Scriptures themselves, and tied themselves in their teaching, to the very words, and frame thereof) but hath also ever had, and used to teach abridgements, sums of their principles of Religion, collected out of the Scriptures, and this we think will be evident to such as in the fear of God and desire to know the truth, shall well weigh and consider these places. 
t Rom. 2, 20. & 6, 17. 2 Tim. 1.13. Heb. 5.12.13, 14, & 6, 1, 2, Secondly, it is also lawful to require of the hearers an account which is also thus taught.   
And as the Scripture proveth this warrantable, so reason itself, and common experience teacheth, that it is a great help in all knowledge, to have short sums of that we would learn, in our view, and prospect represented to us, and to have that in order taught, that we would be instructed in. So is the Sailor helped by his Card, the Traveller by his Map, and the most cunning workman, by his pattern he draweth before be beginneth his work. 
Luke 2.46.47. Mat. 13.36, 51 Mark. 9.28.30, 31.  So he that teacheth children, beginneth with the Letters; and he that buildeth an house, with the foundation.  
Secondly, 
Thirdly the hearer may lawfully give account of the doctrine in the self same words wherein it was taught. Fourth'y he may lawfully have copies of these principles in writing or print. That which they object against our forms (viz) that we conceive them not ourselves, but they are devised & imposed by others, is also of no moment, for it is lawful to use these forms not only that are in the word, but such as men have devised, Ref. pag. 204.  It is also evident, that in teaching these principles (as well as in the other kind of instructions) Christ and his Holy Apostles have been wont to require of their hearers, that they should resound, and give account of the principles of Religion, thus taught in order, as appeareth by the notation of the Greek word, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, which is used in all these places, Luke 14. Acts 18.25. 1 Cor. 14.19. Galath 6.6. as also by the practice of the Jewish Church, which our Saviour by his presence approved and by his own practifie also, and which, (following his example) some of the Apostles did.  
Thirdly, If Ministers may (as we have proved) in regard of the particular state of their people, collect such abridgements, and require the people to resound them; than it cannot be unlawful, for the people to resound the doctrine in the self same words, wherein it was taught.  
Fourthly, This being so, it cannot but be lawful, and profitable for the people to have the Catechisms, and sums delivered them in writing, or in print, that they may the better read, and learn them.  
Seeing we may have forms, both of prayers and Catechisms, we see not how this can condemn the forms which we use, viz. That in compiling, and collecting them, the invention, and such other gifts of men are used, seeing there is a liberty left to the Church to do many things, that tend only to the setting forth of God's Ordinances, (as themselves confess) and in the preaching of the Word, and in those prayers which they call conceived praiesr, the wit, memory, judgement, and such other humane gifts, are lawfully, and necessarily used, especially considering that the people's understanding, and memory, may be the better helped, by that they are well acquainted with them by the other.  
If (we may use lawfully (as we see we may) even such forms as were collected by men, 
secondly, It is lawful for Ministers to use such forms as have been devised by men of better gifts than themselves.  and that these forms do not any way stain or prejudice the fevencie of the spirit, then doubt we not, but these forms that have been set down by men of better gifts, may as lawfully be used of them, who throughly conceive the meaning, and truth of them, as those which the Minister deviseth himself.  
If forms thus devised by men be found to be lawful and profitable, what sin can it be, for the Governors of the Church, to command that such forms be used; 
thirdly, It is lawful to use such good forms as are imposed by authority.  or for us that are persuaded of the lawfulness of them being imposed, unless they will say, that therefore it is unlawful for us to hear the word, receive the Sacraments, believe the Trinity, and all other Articles of the faith; because we are commanded by the Magistrates so to do: whereas indeed we ought the rather to do good things that are agreeable unto the Word, when we know them to be also commanded by the Christian Magistrate.  
Though we are persuaded by the former reason, 
Yet we do grant that in some cases conceived prayers, are more fit than other.  to think that stinted forms, are so fare from being simply unlawful, as in that, in the ordinary and general occasions of the whole Church, they are many times, more fit, than those, that are called conceived prayers. Yet it is well known that our Law alloweth, and our preachers, also do use prayers conceived, which we in some cases, do judge more fit to stir up, and express the groans, and sighs of the spirit, than those prayers do wherein we tie ourselves to prescript words.  
But why do we seek to justify our prescript liturgy, before these men, who speak as scornfully, and profanely of our conceived prayers, as they can possibly do of those which we read? For when Henry Barrow had derided and flouted those that use only read prayers; he breaketh out into these speeches, in the 37. page of his discovery, that other smooth hypocrites: yet as gross Idolaters, use this, (viz.) the Lord's prayer, as a clause, or supply, to their long, and prolix prayers conceived before, whereby it should seem, that their hatred to us, (rather than to our corruptions) is so great, as that, whatsoever we do will displease them.  
Concerning Homilies, this answer we give; 
The reasons they bring against us for Homilies is of no force.  That though we think it is not simply unlawful, to read in our Assemblies such Homilies, as are for the matter sound and good: yet in regard of the dangerous inconveniences, that may come, by using them by so many Ministers and Congregations in the Land, do utterly dislike all public use of them: as that we wonder that these men are not ashamed to use this as a reason of their separation from the whole Church.  
But what if all this were granted, that the use of our stinted prayers, 
If to have a Drescript form of liturgy were Idolatrous yet might we be the true Church for all that.  Catechisms, and Homilies were Idolatrous, which yet we have proved to be otherwise; will it from thence follow, that we are not that true Church? Is this a greater corruption in the worship of God, than the retaining of high places, against which there is so express a commandment, 
a Deut. 12.2. 1 King 11.8, 9 1 King. 15.14. 2 King. 15.4. 2 King. 18.4, 2 King. 13.6.  or then the burning Incense to the Brazen Serpent? b and yet it is evident, that the one of these was retained in the days of Asa and Azariah Kings of judah, and the other, even till Hezekiahs' Reign: in which time notwithstanding, it is manifest there was a true Church in Judah.  
The testimony of Scripture, which they quote in the page 68 of the collection of Letters and Conferences: and in the 144. page of their resutations against our prescript liturgy, are such as either tend generally to the condemning of Idolatry, 
f Deut. 5.8, 9 1 Chro. 28.10. Revel. 22, 19 Prov. 30.5, 6. Deut. 4.32. Revel. 22.18, 19 Matth. 15.9. Col. 2.20, 23.  or such as forbid us to add any thing to the Word of God.  
To the first sort, we answer; that they have not yet proved our liturgy Idolatry. Secondly, if they had, yet cannot they by these testimonies conclude, that therefore they that use it are not the true Church.  
To the other sort of Testimonies, this we say; that we add not our liturgy unto the Word of God, nor make it of equal authority with it: neither do we use it to the same ends, and purposes, that we do the Scripture.  
Secondly, We do wonder, with what judgement, or Conscience, they can blame us for adding to the word by our liturgy, who will at no hand allow us to use, as prayers, any of the forms that are set down in the Scripture.  
The reasons also against all forms of liturgy, 
The reasons against all forms of liturgy are weak and set down in the 43. page of the collection of slanderous Articles.  are fond and weak, though they seem to collect them from the Scriptures, for we have above proved, that God may be worshipped spiritually, and fervently, even in that prayer, wherein a set and prescript form of words are used.  
Secondly, That this is no good reason, the Apostles are not read, to have used any set form of prayer themselves; or to have prescribed any to the Churches, Ergo, they did not use, or prescribe any, or Ergo, the Church might not.  
Thirdly, 
john 4.23. Rom. 8.26. 1 john 2.17. 1 Cor. 3.11, 12  We see not why they may not as strongly reason, the spirit helpeth our infirmities, and we have received that anointing, and therefore we need not, nor may not use any outward helps, for our consolation and instruction, or for the subduing of our corruptions; as this, the spirit helps our infirmities, etc. and we have received that anointing, Ergo, we need not, nor may not use any prescript forms of words, as helps in our prayers.   

OBJECT. III.  
The third thing they object against the whole body of the Church, 
Object. The third Objection against the whole body of our Church, is, that we want Christ's Discipline.  is this: That we want that discipline, and order, which Christ in his Testament hath appointed for the government of the Church: for neither have we (say they) the power to bind or to lose; nor those officers by whom the censures of Christ should be exercised; Yea saith, Henry Barrow, in the 160. page of his discovery; You have not any one thing, order, or administration, according to his Testament. And in the 188. page, such places of Scripture as make express mention of Christ's discipline, as Rom. 12. 1 Cor. 15. and 12. 2 Cor. 2 Ephes. 4. 2 Thes. 3. and 1 Tim. 5.1. are not saith he, suffered so much, as to be read in the Church; much less to be sincerely expounded: from these premises, see what a conclusion, he in the 27. page of his discovery, inferreth, without the power (saith he) and practise of the diligent watch of every Member: but especially of the Elders, the Word of God is made an Idol, the Sacraments sacrilege unto us, and all things we do, odious and abominable unto the Lord.  
To this third Objection, this answer we give. 
Answ. The first part of Christ's Discipline which is most subst intiall we have 1. For the works and duties which he would have performed in the government of his Church, are all one in our assemblies. Discipline not exercised rightly.   
First, whereas the discipline of Christ, consisteth in two things, (viz.) what works and duties, Christ would have performed, for the ordering and government of his Church, and by what persons and Officers he would have these duties exercised: We affirm, that for as much as all these works, (viz.) preaching of the Word, and administration of the Sacraments, the censures of admonition, suspension, excommunication, and provision for the necessity of the poor, are in many of our Assemblies performed, and by Law ought to be in all, that there over we cannot justly be said to be without the discipline of Christ, but rather that we having the discipline of Christ, which is most substantial, do want the other, and so exercile it not rightly, that is to say, not by those Officers, which Christ ●ath appointed.  
Secondly, It is well known, that the chief works and discipline; 
Secondly, The chief works of Christ's Discipline are exercised with us even by those Officers that he appointed.  namely the preaching of the Word, and administration of the Sacraments, and consequently, the principiall part of that power, to bind and lose, which Christ gave to his Church, is not only exercised in many o● our Assemblies; but exercised also, by those very Officers which Christ hath appointed for us: the Laws of our land do authorise the Minister to stay from the Lords Table, all such as are uncatechised, and out of charity, or any otherwise public offenders, (as appeareth in the Rubric before the Communion, and in that which is after confirmation) And from whence else cometh the trouble of many of our Ministers, but from the exercising of this authority, even from the suspending of the ungodly from the Sacrament, and stinging their consciences by the preaching of the word?  
Thirdly, 
Thirdly, though the ●●●p●ine were not exercised at all with us, it could not therefore follow that we have it not. Fourthly, Though even through ignorance or fearfulness, we were kept from it, yet might we have right and authority to use it.  Though none of our Assemblies did use this power, it followeth not from therce, that we have it not: No more than it doth follow, that the rich churl hath no money, because he useth none, and that a man therefore hath no authority, because he doth not exercise any.  
Fourthly, Admit we were not able (through want of knowledge and courage) to use this power. Yet followeth it not, that therefore we want the right, and authority to use it: For if those Churches which the Prophet reproveth, 
a Ezek. 22.26.  for putting no difference between the holy and profane or that which the Apostle blameth, for not putting the incestuous person from among them: had they wanted authority, to use this power, how could they justly have been reproved, for neglecting the exercising thereof?  
Lastly, Though it were granted, that we wanted both the exercise of the Church's censures, and some of those Officers, which our Saviour hath appointed to exercise them by: Yet might we be a true visible Church notwithstanding: there was a true Church in judah, all the days of Asa, 
b 1 Cor 5.1, 2.  and jehosaphat, 
a 2 Chro. 15.9.10. & 17, 5, 9  yet was not the discipline reform there, till the latter days of Iehosaphats Reign. 
b 2 Chro. 19, 8 11. Ezek 22.26.  That also was a true Church, even then when the Apostles found this fault with them, 
d 1 Cor. 5.1, 2.  the Congregation at Samariah is called a Church before the discipline was established there. And even in Jerusalem there was a famous visible Church of Christ long before sundry parts of the discipline (for want whereof they condemn us) were established there, yea it is evident, that by the Apostles themselves divers Churches were gathered, some good space of time, 
g Acts 13.43. 14 11, 21, 23. Tit, 5.5.  before the discipline was settled, or exercised, 
e Acts 8.12.19 31. Acts 2.41, 42.  by all which is manifest; that how necessary soever those parts of the discipline (which we want) be to the beauty, and well being, or preservation of the Church. Yet are they not necessary to the being thereof, but that a true Church may be without them. And as we may well call him a man, that wanteth not only sundry parts of his body, as an Arm, or a Leg. or Eye, but is also distempered much even in the Brain, and Liver, and heart, and the rest of the vi●all parts; so may we rightly call that a Church, which not only wanteth sundry of those Officers which Christ hath ordained, but hath also even in the ministry of the word, and the profession of the true faith (which are as it were the brain and heart of a true Church) much maimedness and distemper.  
The places of Scripture which they allege to disprove this which we have said, are unskilfully applied; 
In the collection of Letters and conferences, page 69. Ephes. 4.11, 12. Rom. 12.8.  for the one of them mentioneth no other ordinary officers out Pastors, and Teachers, which our Church professeth, the other though it proveth there should be other Officers besides them there named; yet doth it not affirm, that without them there can be no true Church.   

OBJECT. FOUR  
The fourth thing which they object against the whole body of our Assemblies is this: 
Object. The fourth Objection against the whole body of our Assemblies is, that we stand under the Popish Church government w●● reason also is insufficient to warrant their separation.  That we stand under (us they say) a false and Antichristian government, for that we are directed by; and subject to Canons, Courts, and authority of the Bishops which they do not content themselves in the 68.69. page of their collection of Letters, and conferences to call Popish, and Antichristian, and Egyptian, and Babylonish Tokes, but in regard thereof they say our Assemblies Cast our Satan by the power of Satan.  
To this fourth objection we make this answer:  
First, Seeing it hath been already showed that the discipline which our Church exerciseth, is in substance the same with that which Christ instituted, they cannot with any colour of truth say, that all our Church government is Popish, and Antichristian, but only that it is popishly and corruptly administered. 
Answ. 1. The substance of our discipline is Christ, and not Antichrists 2 Thes 10.11. 2 Tim. 4.1.3. 1 john 2.22. 1 john 4 3. john 7. Revel. 13.5, 16.   
Secondly, Though it were confessed, that in the callings, and authority of the Bishops, there be divers things Antichristian; Yet see we not how our Bishops could truly be called Antichrists, or Antichristians; because, first the word when it describeth Antichrist, and teacheth us how to know him, useth to mark him out by his false doctrine. Neither can we find in holy Scripture, any such accounted an Antichrist or Antichristian, who holding the truth of doctrine, and professing all the fundamental Articles of the faith, doth swerve either in judgement or practice from that rule which Christ hath given for the discipline of his Church. Now it is evident, that our Bishops both do, and by the Laws of our Land ought to hold and teach all doctrines and truths that are fundamental: Yea some of them have learnedly, and sound maintained the truth against Heretics; that have gainsaid it, some have not only by their doctrine and ministry converted many to the truth, but have suffered persecution also for the Gospel, and though Henry Barrow in the eleventh page of his discovery call them Pseudomartyrs, and runaway professors, yet can he not prove that they all since their accepting their rooms, renounced, and are fallen from that truth which they then suffered for.  
Secondly, Their Hierarchy, and other their corruptions that are charged upon the calling of our Bishops, were rather to be esteemed as the stairs, and way to antichristianity, than antichristianity itself, which is evident by this, that they were in the Church before the Pope (who is the Antichrist, and the chief head-linke of all antichristianity) was revealed.  
Thirdly, The Antichristian Bishops hold their pre-eminence, as from GOD'S Law, which is unchangeable; Whereas our Bishops since her Majesty's Reign until this day (for the most part) held their superiority by no other right, then by the positive Law, which is variable; Yea it appeareth, both by the institution of the Courts of deligates, and by the continuance thereof to this day, that they do and aught by Law to hold their jurisdiction, not as from God, but as from he Prince.  
Thirdly, 
Thirdly, if they were, yet might we be the true Church.  Admit that both our Bishops, and the government by them exercised were Antichristian, yet might we that stand in that sort, as we do, be subject unto them that are the true Church of Christ; it is evident, that to speak properly, the Yoke of Antichrist is only inward and spiritual where the faith and Conscience are enjoined upon pain of damnation to receive other Laws and worship, then that which God in his word prescribeth, and even to this Yoke, the true Church hath been often subject, or else the Church of the Jews even in the days of Christ was no true Church that held themselves bound in conscience to observe sundry traditions of the Elders: In a more large sense those Prelates are called Antichristian, that join civil jurisdiction, with Ecclesiastical, or usurp more than they ought in external government, or tyrannously abuse the power committed to their hands; and this Antichristian Yoke also, the true Church hath borne many a time: in the days of the Macchabees, there was a true Church among the Jews, yet did the Priests exercise civil jurisdiction.  
There was a true Church, 
Ier● 5.31. & 20.1.  both in Jeremies, and Ezekiels days, which yet did bear this Antichristian Yoke: the authority which our Bishops are said to usurp over the Ministers, 
Ezek. 34.4. Which had not-needed if the Church could have suppressed, or withstood them.  and Church, is not worse than that, which Di●trephes usurped; for besides that he sought for an Antichristian pre-eminence, it is evident that the Church was unable to resist him, and therefore the Apostle purposed himself to come and rebuke him. Their own terms they use in this, [viz. Egyptian, and Babylonish Yoke,] shall teach them thus much; for seeing that the jeves remained still the Church of God, even in that bondage that they stood under in Egypt, and Babylon; why may not we also remain God Church still, notwithstanding the Yoke which we bear, being nothing so heavy as that was?   

OBJECT. V  
The last thing they object against the whole body of our Assemblies, 
The fifth Objection against the whole body of our Church is that we obstinately continue in the aforesaid wants and corruptions though we have been duly convinced. 1. Objection is false and insufficient to warrant their separation for some of our assemblies have mourned for that which is amiss and by all due means sought reformation. Secondly, some maintain corruptions and oppugn the discipline because they are not yet in their consciences persuaded of the things. Tit. 3.11.  is this: That we obstinately continue in the aforesaid wants, and corruptions, though we have been convinced concerning this point, they have these words, in the 23. page of their refutation; We hold withal that no true Church, or Christian will maintain any sin, or error, when it is evidently showed and convinced to them by the Word of God; much less persecute such as reprove and admonish them, as you do. In the 164. pag. they charge us with wilful obstinacy, open rejecting, and resisting the truth, etc.  
To this reason, we also give this answer.  
That neither do our Assemblies continue in the aforesaid wants and corruptions, neither if they did, should they therefore cease to be a true Church; for,  
First, It is evident, that many Ministers and Congreations, have both by prayer unto God, and all means (that have been in their powers to use) testified unto men their earnest desire to have these corruptions removed, and the true discipline established.  
Secondly, The most of them that maintain the evils that are amongst us, and repugn the reformation which the rest have sought, cannot be justly charged with wilful obstinacy, or committing those things wherein their own consciences do condemn them; for, seeing they profess, and pretend that they are not yet in their judgement persuaded of these things, and the whole conversation of many of them: is, such as gives us just cause to believe them, who dare be so presumptuous as to judge thus of their hearts, and consciences, though he were sure they have wanted no means whereby they might have been convinced.  
Considering that it is one thing, to have had the means of convincing another thing to be convinced: the former whereof may be performed to us by men, the other by the Lord only; and that a people, in whom some right means of convincing have not been effectual, may as well be the true Church of God, as they that have received and profited by all right means, that have been used for their instruction, and reformation of life.  
Thirdly, We have not yet had the right means used to convince us in sundry of those matters, 
Thirdly, We have not had so much as the right means used to convince us in these things which are in controversy between them and us.  that are in controversy between us and them; for proof whereof, we refer ourselves to the answer, which we will hereafter make unto their articles in their conclusion.  
Fourthly, Though not only the right means had been used to convict us, but they had also so fare prevailed with us, that in judgement we saw the truth (which they say is not practised amongst us) and in heart did affect it; yet would this sufficiently clear us from the crime of wilful obstinacy, that we have not power without the consent and permission of Christian Magistrates (under whom we live, by whose means we enjoy so many great benefits, 
Fourthly, Although we were all throughly convinced, yet have we not power and warrant from God to redress public disorders, and erect the discipline without the consent of the Christian Magistrates.  and whom if we should thus fare provoke (we should evidently hazard the loss of those things wherein the very life and being of a visible Church consisteth,) either to remove the corruptions that remain amongst us, or to establish those Church orders which we want; for although we doubt not but the whole truth of Christ's doctrine, may be lawfully taught (though all the Magistrates in the world gainsay it) and practised also so fare forth by every Christian, as the bounds of his particular calling permits, and that it is the Magistrates principal honour, in the sight of God, and man, to yield and submit himself to the instructions, reproofs, and censures of the Church, so far forth, as they are agreeable to the Word of God, who is Lord of Lords, and King of Kings: Yet cannot we not see good reason to persuade us, that the Church ought, or may either pull down, corrupt Church government, or erect the right discipline, not only without, but contrary to the liking of Christian Magistrates.  
Thus much we find in the Word of God. 
Godly Princes   
First, That in those public reformations of the Church, which the word commendeth, the Christian and godly Princes were ever the principal actors.  
Secondly, That for the want of public Reformation, the Magistrate is every where blamed, and no where the Church, for aught we can find: oft are the Priests, and people blamed for erecting and practising Idolatry, but never for that they plucked it not down, when their Princes had set them up: Neither can we find whether ever the Church under a Christian Magistrate, was by any Prophet, either commanded to deal (otherwise then by persuasion) in public Reformation, when the Magistrate neglected it; or reproved for the contrary.  
To that which they were wont to say; then the Apostles were much to blame, who in erecting the Church government, never waited for, nor sought the Magistrates leave, and good liking? We answer, that though without the Magistrates leave they did it. Yet not contrary to his liking, or when he opposed his authority directly, and inhibited it, the never erected the discipline, when there was so direct an opposition made against it by the civil Magistantes.  
Secondly, If it could be proved that the Apostles did so then, yet would it not follow, that we also may do so now; for neither was the Heathen Magistrate altogether so much to be respected by the Church as the Christian Magistrate is; neither have our Ministers, and people, now so full and absolute a power, to pull down, and set up orders in the Church, as the Apostles (those wise Master bvilders) had.  
Lastly, though this were all proved, 
Fisthly, though we did voluntarily continue in those known wants & corruptions having power to redress them: yet might we be the true Church notwithstanding.  that our Assemblies are throughly convinced in these points, and that we having power to reform that which is amiss, do yet voluntarily continue in those wants, and corruptions, yet might we be the true Churches of Christ, notwithstanding; for as true faith in Christ, not moral obedience, is that which giveth life, and being to every true member of the Church, so the profession of true faith in Christ, rather than obedience, is that which giveth the life, and being to a visible Assembly.  
So we read that many upon their profession of faith were baptised and incorporated into the Church. 
a Acts 8.12, 13 & 16, 31, 32.  So that which made the Romuns a true Church in the judgement of Paul, was, that their faith was published throughout the world. 
b Rom. 1.8.  And generally, that which made the Gentiles (to whom he preached) a true Church, was that they gave obedience of faith, neither do we see what difference they will make betwixt the covenant of works, and the covenant of grace, 
c Rom. 1.5.  if they hold obedience to the Commandments of God, necessary to the life and first being of a true Christian Church.  
And as a wife ceaseth not to be a wife, though in many things she cease to be wilfully disobedient to her husband, unless she sin, either by desertion, or whoredom, and be divorced. So neither the Church ceaseth to be the Church, and Spouse of Christ, till she be both sufficiently convinced of Atheism, or Idolatry, and be divorced also, the Lord taking from her His Word, and Sacraments, and all other his spiritual Jewels, and Ornaments; In the third Chapter of jeremy, both Israel, and judah, were charged with Idolatry, and yet must we needs confess, that they still continued the true Church of God, unless we will say, there was at that time, no true visible Church in the world, which was most absurd to affirm. So the Corinthians being in the first Epistle, convinced of the sin of Idolatry, 
d 1 Cor. 10.14.  and other sins, 
e 2 Cor. 6.14. & 12, 21, 13, 2  the Church remaining in them, as appeareth in the second Epistle, 
f 2 Cor. 1.1.  did yet continue to be the true Church of God, notwithstanding, and so are called in the same Epistle; That which Henry Barrow in the 94. page of their refutation excuseth this Church by, (viz.) that it was orderly gathered, and established, may as well be alleged for our Assemblies, as for the Church of Cor. as, we hope, may appear by that which hath been above said in our Answer to the first Objection they make against the whole body of our Church; He that was once a brother, though he persist in his sins, he hath been convinced of, not by one brother only, but by two or three, yea though he commit some presumptuous sins, ceaseth not to be a brother notwithstanding; 
Matth. 18.15, 16.  how much less, shall a Church cease to be a true Church, 
b Psalm 19  because it hath been convinced of some gross corruptions, by one, or some few?  
The high places were continued in Israel, and judab, and that under the Reign of sundry good Kings; notwithstanding the reproof of many Prophets. Yet were they of Israel, and judah, accounted the Church still; neither did the Prophets cease, to communicate with them. 
c 2 Kings 1.3. & 15.3.  Neither would those that remained in Babylon after the Proclamation of Cyrus (which was also the Commandment of God) 
d 2 Chro. 36.22 Ezra. 2.2.  to return, thrust out of the account of the Church, as appeareth by the communion of them, with the Church of jerusalem, and the books of Ezra, and Nehemiah, notwithstanding, partly in fear of the danger, partly in a love of the commodity, which they settled themselves in, during the captivity, they did not build the Temple in person, but only sent money for the building.  
Lastly, the Apostle setteth down a Rule, which is directly contrary to this fourth Article of their first exception in these words; Let us therefore as many as are perfect, be thus mind d, and if in any thing, ye be otherwise mind d, 
Philip. 3.15.  God shall reveal the same unto you; Nevertheless, Whereto we have already attained, let us walk by the same rule, that we may mind the same thing, whereby it appeareth, that with those who hold the foundation, we both may, and aught to hold and join ourselves in the things, wherein we are agreed, notwithstanding our differences in those things that are not fundamental. By all which it is manifest how false, and dangerous a doctrine, that is, which Henry Barrow in the 28. page of his discovery affirmeth, that presumptuous sin, with obstinacy joined thereunto, breaketh the covenant with God; if he had said, it giveth the Lord just cause to cast us off, and to make void that covenant whereby he had bound himself unto us, we would have consented. But that the everlasting covenant of God, is utterly broken by a presumptuous sin committed with obstinacy, if we should grant, we should condemn the generation of the just, and darken much the glory of God's Mercy, who is constant in love towards those, whom he hath received into covenant, even though they be many times unconstant and unfaithful unto him.  
And even as an Husband, or wife, ceaseth not presently to be an Husband, or wife, when they have committed adultery, till by just divorce they be separated, so it is in this case as we have above said.    

We have a true Ministry IN ENGLAND.  
II. EXCEPTION.  
THe second general exception is against the Ministry of our Church, which they affirm to be false, and Antichristian. Concerning which, they have these words, in the page 146. and 147. of their refutation, we have perused all this rabble of the ministry, of the Church of England, and have not found any one of them right, or almost, in any point, according to the right Rules of Christ's Testament, they are all strangers there, they belong us to Christ's body. His Church neither are they 〈◊〉 is members to the Head. And in the 147. page of the same back, they ●● they say, that our Minister is such as can have 〈…〉 God, alleging moreover, that the ways if the 〈◊〉 Church, 〈…〉 are the ways of death, and have no promise of salves and in the 147. page, they have these words; Out of the smoke of the Bottomless pit all their Ministers come, whe● that fallen st●rre, An christ ha● the Key thereof given him; to his Kingdom the false Church, they have always belonged, always served him in his sever 〈◊〉 shapes, they have been always k●it to him, as members to the head; from him, and not from Christ, we all see with our bodily eyes, that the Church of England hath received them. And in the 158. page of the same book, they conclude thus. The keeping of these offices, cannot now belong unto, or serve in Christ's Kingdom: His Church neither, be knit unto Christ as the Head. But as the Holy Chost witnesseth of them, they have a King over them, the Angel of the bottomless pit, whose name is in Hebrew, Abaddon; and in Greek, Appollion as in all languages, and places, they discover.  

ANSWER.  
THat we have a true Ministry in this Land, 
But it appeareth that our Ministry is holy and lawful, because the true Church hath received and approved our doctrine. john 10.3, 5. Ephes. 4.11, 12 2 john 4.6. 2. Many have been effectually called by our Ministry. And this reason taken from the force of our Ministry, and hath force to prove the lawfulness of it.  it may evidently appear by these reasons.  
A true Church (such as we have proved ours to be in our answer, to their first exception) could neither have received our doctrine at the first, nor proved it so long, nor have been continued, nourished, and built up by it: had not we been the true faithful Ministers of Christ.  
Secondly, It is evident, that many have been brought (by our Ministry) to saving knowledge, faith, and reformation of life. For proof whereof, we appeal, first, to their own consciences, out of which we desire them to answer us, as in the presence of Almighty God.  
Secondly, By the manifest differences, that may be noted betwixt those that have been taught by a learned Ministry, and those that have bad none; who yet should be in judgement, and affection, as good or better than the other, if the Ministry, under which the other lived, were not true and lawful.  
That this reason taken from the fruit of our labours, is sufficient to prove we are the true Ministers of God; As appeareth in this.  
1. That the Lord in his most holy Word, maketh this the most proper note of such ministry, as is according to his own heart. 
c jer. 3.15 & 23, 31. john 10.25.   
Secondly, In that the ministry is oft justified, and proved to be of God, by this reason; So that our Saviour Christ proveth Himself, to be the true Messiah, by doing the works of the Messiah; 
d Eph 4 11, 12 Rom. 10.14, 15.  so may we prove ourselves true Ministers, by doing the works of God, His Ministers.  
To that which they object against this reason, 
2 Cor. 9.1, 2. Rom. 13.17, 18. 1 Thes 1.1, 9 Mat. 12.5, 6. john 5.36. Notwithstanding that it is objected of other means.  (viz.) that thereby the Popish Church and Ministry may be justified, as well as ours, seeing that many have been converted by private conference, and reading, and by domestical preaching, and exhortations, without a public Church alling?  
We answer, that though the Lord hath been often wont, heretofore, and is able still to convert souls by private means, and such as are extraordinary. Yet cannot it be proved, that any have been converted usually, or that public Congregations have been gathered, and builded up by any private interpretations, and application of the Scriptures, but by such only as hath been use by a lawful ministry. And whereas Henry Barrow excepteth further, p. 152. and 153 and of his refutation, that this argueth only true doctrine, and not a true Ministry; we answer,  
First, That thereby he justifieth our doctrine, which elsewhere, he generally condemneth.  
Secondly, That he affirmeth only, that true doctrine without a true ministry, doth ordinarily convert men: but proveth it not, nor indeed was able to prove it: as shall hereafter appear, in the answer we make to the second Article of their consequence.  
But our Ministers have no promise of blessing in their teaching (say they) and therefore, neither may they lawfully teach, nor the people hear them?  
To this we answer, First, 
Ezech. 3.2, 7.  That God's Ministers have lawfully taught when they have not only wanted the promise, that their labour should do that people good, whom they did teach, but received assurance of the contrary.  
Secondly, That the people have lawfully heard, 
jonah 3.4, ●.  and harkened to teachers, that have come unto them, when they (as being utterly ignorant and unaconainted with God's promises) had no assurance to their consciences, that God had promised a blessing to their hearing;   

Objection first.  
THe first thing they object against our Ministers, 
Their first objection against our ministers is, that the office whereunto our Ministers were called is Antichristian, which is false & slanderous: for the office and duties whereunto we are called, are the very same which the word prescribeth, not those that popish Priests are called unto.  Is, that the Office whereunto our ministry is called, is not that which Christ hath Ordained, but that which Antichrist calleth his Priests unto: Concerning these points, these are their words, in the 158. page of their refutation: They have served in, and belonged unto Antichrist, even the Popes Kingd me and Throne, the false Church, with all the abominable idolatry therein?   

ANSWER. I.  
To which their Objection, we give this answer.  
The preaching of the whole truth of God's Word, and nothing but it; the administration of the Sacraments, and of public prayer, as they are all the parts of the Ministers Office prescribed in the word, so are they all appointed to our Ministers by the Law.  
And for so much, as there is no Priesthood in the Popish Church, that is not ordained to offer that Idolatrous sacrifice of the Mass, or that was ever called unto, and necessarily enjoined those duties of ministry that are required of us. We see not with what truth our brethren can say that our Office is the same, which Antichrist calleth his Priests unto.  
And if our Office be the same which Antichrist hath ordained, how falleth it out, that the Papists give a new ordination, to such as having had that which our Church giveth, do in Apostasy shrink unto them.  
And if it be objected, 
Though some popish Priests are allowed to exercise the Ministry without any new Ordination.  that our Church admitteth such as were ordained by Antichrist without any new ordination, whereby appeareth, that our office and theirs is all one? we answer.  
First, That though they have no other ordination, yet in more essential parts of their outward calling unto the Ministry, there are so many differences to be observed, in the practice of our Church, that no indifferent man can think, we judge the calling, that any man hath had in popery, to be sufficient for exercise of their Ministry in our Church.  
Secondly, The receiving of some into the Ministry, that have been popish Priests, without new ordination, as we take it to be a grievous corruption, and such as we will by no means seek to justify, so we think it cannot by any show of good reason, be alleged to prove that the calling which all our Ministers have, is the very same which the Popish Priest's exercise; but only to show either the outward calling, which some of our Minister's exercise is, the very same with that of the popish Priests, or (at the most) that some chief Governors in the Church do in their judgement, hold that there is no new Ordination, 
The first reason against our office is, that we all receive one. Antichristian Deaconship, which hath not force to condemn our office, seeing under the n●me of Priest and Deacon, many receive at one time, the full power of ministry. Philip. 1.1. 1 Tim. 3.8. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. Ephes. 3.7. Col. 1.7, 23. 1 Tim. 4.6. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. Acts 1.17, 25, & 6.4. & 12.25. & 20, 24. Rom. 12.13, 1. Cor. 12.5. Thirdly, Although he that is called to be a Deacon be restrained from some work that belongs to a Minister, yet is he not called to do aught that is unlawful.  to be required in such a case, both which if we should grant, yet had they granted nothing at all in the question, that is betwixt us.  
The first reason whereby they would prove that office, whereunto our Ministers are called, is not that which Christ hath ordained, but that whereunto Antichrist hath called his Priests is, That we are called unto such a Deaconship as is not according unto Christ's Testament, but Popish and Antichristian? Whereunto we answer.  
1. That if the Deaconship and Priesthood (as they term it) be taken by us both at once, as usually they are, than we are enabled to do whatsoever a Minister of the Gospel may do of himself, without the assistance of the Eldership, and so the error that is committed resteth in the form and ceremony only, not in the matter itself.  
Secondly, though it were indeed to be wished, that every office in the Church were called by the proper name which the Scripture giveth it; Yet if the Church give a wrong name to a right and lawful office, the office is not therefore to be refused, much less, is the power to preach the word, and to administer the one of the Sacraments, therefore to be refused, because it is given by the name of the Deacons Office, considering that although in the strict, and most proper sense, the Scripture calleth them Deacons, to whom, the Office of caring for the poor is committed; yet sometimes also all that labour in the word are comprehended under this name, and the ministry of the word, is called a Deaconship.  
Thirdly, If it be objected, that our Deaconship, is neither approved nor mentioned in the Scripture, because it restraineth us from dealing with the one Sacrament, and so separateth those things, which God hath coupled?  
We answer, That this can be no reason against our Ministers, because when they are made Deacons, they are not called to do any thing that is unlawful, but only cut short for a time and restrained from some thing, which they may or aught to do, much less can it be alleged against all our Ministers, because many of us (as it is above said) were made both Deacons, and Priests, (as they speak fond) in one day, and so took the full power and authority of ministry without any such separation, or many as is here objected. 
The second reason against our office (viz) this we be called by such names as are popish, is fond & insufficient. For the name Priest though not simply unlawful, yet in our Churches judged unfit to be given unto the Ministers of the Gospel. Bishop Horn against Fe●kman, fol. 95. & fol. 111. Thirdly, If all were called by popish names, yet might we be true Ministers.   
Their second reason, against our office and function is; That ●ee are not known by the right names that in the Word an given to the Ministers of Christ, but by such names as have been devised ●nd given by the Papists as Priest, Pri-son, Vicar and Curate, etc.  
To which we answer, first, Concerning the name Priest, although we think, that at the first, it was well enough applied to the Preachers of the Word because it was derived from the Greek Word, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, that signifies an Elder. Yet because it is used now by the profane, as a term of scorn, and hath a long time, both by Papists, and others, been by common custom abused, and appropriated to such as do sacrifice, therefore not only the most of our poople refuse to call us by that name but even some, who have been chief Governors of our Church, have judged it unfit to be given unto the Ministers of the Gospel.  
Secondly, It is well known, not only that many of our Ministers are usually called by such names, as the Scripture giveth but also that the Law of the Land (in the book of conlecration) giveth us the name of Pastors, Teachers and Rectors.  
Thirdly, Though the names objected against us, have been used by the Papists, and therefore are very unfit to be given to the Ministers of the Gospel. Yet see we not, that either by their original, or use, they have any such contagion in them, as should poy son and infect all the offices, and duties whereunto they are applied.  
Fourthly, 
Fourthly, Especially seeing they are imposed upon us, & we delight not in them. Gen. 41.45. ●●or. 1.7, 8.  Though there names were of themselves, of Antichristian original and use. Yet if they be imposed upon any such as take no pleasure in them, we see not how they can any wait 〈◊〉 pollute them and their offices, than joseph, and Daniel, were polluted by 〈◊〉 and Idolatrous names that were given them, or than private Christians, are made the worse by the odious terms of Precisians, Purity 〈◊〉, is Martinists, or then our brethren themselves, are by the names of Brownists, and Barrowists; which they so usually are called by, and so much dislike.  
Fifthly, 
Fifthly Our Doctrines may be good though we were all called by, and did delight in those names. Matth. 23.2. Their third reason that we are called to read stinted & imposed prayers.  if neither the Law, nor the people, did give us any other names then such as are popish, and we also did glory in them ourselves. Yet makes this nothing to the condemnation of our office, and doctrine, seeing, that though the name of Pharisee were not of divine institution, Yet Christ Himself giveth approbation, to the office of preaching, which they exercised.  
Their third reason against our office and function, is. That we are called to read stinted prayers, that are devised, and imposed by men: Concerning which, they say, page 62. of their discovery, to the Book of common prayers, all the Priests of the Land are swonn to use it in manner and form prescribed, and in the book ●s in 〈◊〉 the whole form and substance of their ministrative, and in 〈◊〉 3.) 〈…〉 book of common prayer is the very ground work of their faith 〈◊〉 and Ministry, and in place 〈◊〉 them, of the Word of God. And in the 64 page, the Word of God may not be taught, but when th●● book hath first ●een●read, and hath had the pre-eminence.  
To all which was give this answer; 
Is also insufficient for a prescript form of prayer is lawful. Secondly, even though it be imposed.  First that a see and prescript form of prayer, may lawfully be used, as we have proved already in our answer to their second objection against out Church.  
Secondly, If to have a prescript form of prayer is lawful in itself, we see not how this should make it unlawful, that it is prescribed by the Church, authorized by the Christian Magistrate, for which we also refer ourselves to that answer, we have already given to then second Objection against our Church.  
Thirdly, though that by statute, the Ministers be commanded to read prayer, Yet do we deny that is enjoined, as any essential part of our office, seeing that in the f●●●ie of ordination, appointed by Law, there is no such thing 〈◊〉 of us, 〈…〉 are there only charged with the preaching of the Word, prayer, and 〈…〉 of the Sacraments, and discipline of Christ. And that statute which ratifieth the Communion book, respecteth of the substance of our Office, but order only and uniformiti●● Neither doth any Law of our Land deny him, to be a true and lawfully Minister, which preacheth the word aright though he never read prayers according to that book. Whereof the practice of our Church is a sufficient proof, wherein there are many Ministers allowed, that never meddled with that book, and many both Schoolmasters and others, by the Bishops are permitted to read it publicly, though they be not in the account of Ministers; And which is more, private men may (〈◊〉 Statute) reable it in their private houses: 
Their fourth reason (viz.) that we are called to read ungodly prayers is also insufficient, for 1. We have Ministers that read none of those prayers that for matter or form can be proved ungodly.  All which proveth evidently the reading of the Book of Common Prayer, is not taken to be of the substance of our ministry, nor absolutely necessary, to the being of a Minister in our Church. And therefore we cannot but wonder to read those accusations (which are so notoriously known to be false and slanderons) in their writings who pretend such love to sincerity, and are so sharp censurers, even of the secret faults of other men.  
Their fourth reason against the office we exercise, is, That we are called to read ungodly prayers? whereunto we answer.  
First, It is most clear that many Ministers in our Church, use not to read any of those prayers, which you account, for the matter ungodly, and that therefore this can be no good reason, against all our Ministers.  
Secondly, 
Secondly, none are in the ordination called and enjoined to read such. 2 Kings 16.11.  If all did use to read them; Yet are they not in their Ordination called to read them (as hath been above proved) so that if they read them, the fault is in them, and not in the office they exercise.  
Thirdly, If they were enjoined to read ungodly prayers, and did accordingly read them, this cannot make their Ministry void, or Antichristian, for then Vriah should have been no Priest, for that he made an Altar at Jerusalem, like that in all points, which was at Damascus: whereas it is evident, that he continued the Priest of the Lord still: Notwithstanding that great fault which was beyond all comparison greater than this, that is in question.  
Their fift reason against our office is, That we are called to read, Homilies, and Injuctions, and whereunto we answer.  
First, That neither do the most of our Ministers read Homilies; Neither doth any law of the Land require, that Preachers should read them.  
Secondly, If Law did enjoin them to all, and all did read them; yet are they not enjoined in our ordination, nor accounted by Law as substantial parts of our office, neither is their any doubt made in our Land (no not by them that do press the precise observation of Law in this point) whether he be a lawful Minister, who doth not read, either Homilies, or Injunctions.  
Their sixth reason against our office is, That we are called to marry, bury, and Church women. To which also we answer.  
First, That it is no part of our office (whereunto in ordination we are called) to do these things.  
Secondly, as the Ministers use to bless the Marriages, that are made in our Land, so make we no doubt, but that it is lawful and fit (as a matter not of substance, but of good order) that they should not do it, for as it is necessary that this ordinance of God should be sanctified, by the Word, and prayer, so it cannot be inconvenient, that the Word and prayer, whereby it is sanctified, should be administered by him, who in a special sort is appointed of God to be the steward, and disposer of all his mysteries, and to whom in his ministerial actions, greater promises are made than to any other man: though he do the very same thing. And seeing that in these days it preventeth many dangerous inconveniences, to have marriages blest in the public congregations, who can be thought so fit to speak in the congregation, and to be the month, either of the Lord to the people, or of the people unto God, as is the Minister?  
That which Henry Barrow objecteth in the 123. page of his discovery; That he ever took Marriage for an Ordinance, and an action of the second table, and seethe not why we may not as well set up the tables, of the money changers, or bring in any other civil matters or chaffaire, as this into our Church; is easily answered; for though marriages be a civil action, yet is not the blessing of it, by the word, and prayer civil: And as the Magistrates may have a hand in those actions, that are Ecclesiastical and belonging to the first Table, (even by Henry Barrowes own confession, in the 85. page of the same book) so may the Minister have a hand in those actions that are civil, and belonging to the second Table. And though Marriages receive life and being, from the contract that is made by mutual consent of parties, and Parents privately (which is the cause why we do thereupon according to the Scriptures, account them man and wife, before they have lain together) yet doth this add much to the seemliness and beauty of that holy ordinance, when it is thus made known, and rightly ratified in the congregation.  
Concerning Courching of women, we answer: That many of our Ministers do upon a just dislike of the form prescribed in the book, and upon fear of nourishing the great superstition (that the people for the most part have put in that custom) forbear to use any particular, and personal form of thanksgiving, at that time and occasion: And yet we see not how it should simply, be unlawful, (though very unconvenient) to use some form of thanksgiving, at that time even with special mention of that occasion, or how our ministry should be made void, and Antichristian by doing so besides that, the book itself toeth no Minister to the form prescribed, but leaveth it to his discretion to use it, or any other, as that case or occasion requireth.  
Concerning burials, we answer.  
First, That many of our Ministers are known to refuse the form of burial prescribed in the book.  
Secondly, That a Christian Minister may (for the honour and seemliness of Christian burial) accompany, as a Christian, with the rest of the Neighbours, the body of Christians departed unto the grave.  
Thirdly, if the minister use some few words of comfort and exhortation at that time; Yea even in that form, that the book prescribeth, though it may prove inconvenient, and offensive; Yet is there no such impiety in that action, that should make his ministry void, or Antichristian.  
Their seventh reason against our office is, That we are called to use Antichristian Geremonies? whereunto we make this answer. That the Ceremonies wherein opinion of Holiness is, or hath been put, many of our Ministers have cast off, so that this reason maketh nothing to justify separation from all our Church Assemblies.  
Secondly, Many that use sundry of these Ceremonies do it, because either they judge them things indifferent and such, as whereunto the Law of Christian charity, 
b Rom. 7.15. 2 Chron. 20 33. 1 King. 2.5.3. Though we all used the most unlawful Ceremonies that are in our Church; Yet might we be true Ministers. Galath. 4 9 2 Kings 14.4. Fourthly, Specially seeing we are not bound by office to use them. Their second Objection against our ministry is, that the entrance in to our Office is Antichristian; which insufficient to warrant their separation, for First, the people are not bound to inquire or see how their Ministers entered Secondly, Our entrance may be lawful though it be not in all points agreeable to the rules of Christ's Testament. ●esu●a. p. 127.  and the tender regard to the weakness of the people doth (as they think) bind them, following therein, the direction of the Word, or else they tolerate them as burdens, which it lieth not in them to remove, being laid upon them by the determination of the Magistrate, and custom of the Church: And seeing that they do in judgement, and affection, unfeignedly dislike that which either through humane infirmity, or in Christian wisdom, and to prevent more dangerous inconveniences) they are enforced to bear with We see not, why they may not be accounted the true Ministers of Christ, notwithstanding they use these inconyenient Ceremonies, as well as Paul might be judged to be a good Christian, though he sometimes did that evil, which he hated and Iehos●phat a good King, though he endured the high places to continue in judah all the time of his government, because he was not able to abolish them. And David though he suffered joab to live many days, after he had committed most unnatural murder because he was notable without manifest danger to his state to cut him off.  
Thirdly, the use of the most unlawful ceremonies that are amongst us, is not of force to make our Ministry void, and Antichristian, or our Church for the Galathians were still a true Church, though they had received even those impotent, and beggarly rudiments, which they had once cast off, much more we, which cannot be said to have resumed them, as being never yet freed from the bondage of them, so was there still a true Church in judah when the hill altars, and high places were continued there, which yet was a greater corruption in the worship of God, than the ceremonies whereof question is made, can possibly be accounted.  
Fourthly, It is no part of our office whereunto we are in ordination called, to use any ceremonies as hath been showed before.  
The second thing they object against our Ministry is, That the manner of our entrance into the aforesaid office and calling is Antichristian, and not according to God's Ordinance?  
Whereunto we answer: First, that the people may lawfully accept us to be true Ministers, whom the Church so esteemeth, though they cannot see how we first entered. And that by no commandment or example in the Word, they are bound to inquire there-into. For further proof whereof, we refer out selves unto the answer which we have made to their first Objection, against the whole body of our Church.  
Secondly, Though none of those Rules which Christ his Testament hath set down for the calling, and ordaining of our Ministry, can be wanting without a blemish, and maim to the calling: And consequently they should all of them be carefully sought for, both by Minister and people, yet may some of them be wanting, without loss of the life, and being of the calling: Neither is that true which they affirm; That whatsoever Minister hath not a true, and right calling, in all points, though the office whereunto he be called, be a true office, is no true Minister, but an usurper, an intruder, a thief, and a murderer. For first, whatsoever is of the being, and substance of the calling to the ministry, hath been common to all true and lawful Ministers, that ever were in the Church, as well as the substance of the Sacraments, and discipline, and whole Religion, hath ever been one, and the same, in all places, and at all times; whereas it is clear, that some of the rules prescribed for the outward calling in the New Testament, have not been always in use, and practise throughout God's Church, no not in such ministries as the Word hath given testimony to; for proof whereof may be alleged the calling, that those Levites, and Preachers exercised, whereof there is mention made, 2 Chron. 17.7, 9 For as in divers other parts of God's service, the omitting, and swerving from sundry of God's holy Ordinances prescribed in the word, maketh not the action itself void and unlawful (as is evident by that one example, 2 Chro. 30.26, 17, 18, 19) so the want and swerving from some rules prescribed, for the outward calling of the Ministers, cannot be of force sufficient to make their calling void, and unlawful.  
Thirdly, 
Thirdly, Our entrance might be lawful though in some points it were according to some Cannons of Antichrist. Their first reason whereby th●y condemn our entrance, (viz.) that we were not elect by the people, not approved by the Eldership, is of no force.  Though our entrance were according to some of Antichrists Canons, yet would not that prove that our ministry is Antichristian; for further proof whereof, we refer ourselves to that answer we have made to the fourth Objection against the whole body of our Church.  
Their first reason against our entrance is; That we are not chosen, by that people, over whom we are set, or approved by an Eldership?  
Whereunto we give this answer. First, that their be sundry of our Ministers in our Church, that have been in times past chosen by a faithful people, and ordained by a true Eldership, to the work of the ministry, at Antwerp. Geneva, Midlebarough, Flushing; Stoade, Gernsey  
Against who if this be objected. That they were not thus called, to any of our Parish Assemblies? We desire to know by what warrant they can ●●ee accounted to be 〈◊〉 Ministers now, that have given no just cause of deprivation, since the time they were so sufficiently called to the ministry.  
Secondly, the most of such Preachers, as have stood for the cause of Reformation have the very same outward election, 
Secondly, many of the same election and ordination in substance which the word requireth  and ordination in substance which the word prescribeth; for first, their are be over their entrance, sufficient means used to know and find what gifts are in them by disputations and other exercises in divinity.  
Secondly, their gifts are approved by the judgement of sundry learned men of the Colleges, and places wherein, and whereabout they have been trained up  
Thirdly, the faithful that are in those Congregations, where they are placed do either desire them, or gladly receive them, or at the least by not taking exception to them, do even by their silence, consent to their entrance, or by submitting themselves willingly to their godly directions in all things, and profiting in knowledge and Reformation of life by their labours, do manifestly approve of them, and set a seal unto their ministry, whereof this may serve for an evident proof, that many Assemblies have both made an earnest fuite for sundry Ministers before their first coming to them; And when they have been molested afterwards.  
And seeing the right that Patrons now have, was given them at first by the people's free consent (though ignorantly, and unlawfully as we are persuaded) we see not why the choice that the Patron maketh, may not be accounted the choice of the people, as well as the acts done by the Knights, and Burgesses of the Parliament, are deemed the acts of the whole commons, by whom they were deputed; It is evident that by the Law mentioned, Numb. 30.8. that the silence of the husband, or parent that testified not his dislike to the vow which he understood was made by his wife, or child, made the said vow of as much force, as if his consent had been requited and given, so it is judged in this case of the people's silence, in accepting of their Ministers.  
Thirdly, the Law itself requireth that we should have the same election and ordination in substance which the Word of God prescribeth, for by the Law; First, none should be made Minister, but at the same time also be should be appointed to some certain charge.  
Secondly, That when any Ministers are to be made, there should be knowledge given thereof, and that in so public place and manner, that even the people, over whom any Minister is to be set, may know it, and be admitted, to take any just exception, they can either to his doctrine, or life.  
Thirdly, There may be some entrance into the Ministry in substance sufficient, where the people at first have not made election, nor their consent been required at all: as in case where the people have not knowledge of their right, or having known it have not been suffered to use it: But yet have afterwards yielded themselves subject thereunto, as also in the case aforesaid, Numbers 30.8, for further proof whereof, we refer ourselves to the answer we have given, unto that which they object in general against our entrance.  
Fourthly, Concerning ordination by Eldership, this we answer in particular: First, that unless the eldership be held so essential a thing, that there can be no true Church without it (which we are well assured of that our brethren themselves, and all that have any knowledge will deny) ordination by the eldership cannot be absolutely necessary, albeit in the settled government of a Church, we hold it of the essence of the calling of a Minister, that we have the substance of the ordination appointed in the Word.  
Fiftly, That as in times past; so now also there may be in some places such an estate of the Church, as wherein no manner of ordination and investing of Ministers, hath been, or could be used in the giving of an entrance into the Ministry: And though where it may be conveniently had, we hold it fit that the weakness of the people's judgement in their choice of their Minister, should be supported by the discreet knowledge of the Ministers and Elders that are about them; Yet where it cannot be conveniently had (as in places where the Gospel is newly planted, and far removed from other Churches already established) there that (amongst other considerations) the course of the Gospel should not be stayed, till ordination be fetched from fare countries; the Lord himself oftentimes supplieth the places of the Ministers and Elders, and layeth on his hands: such evidence of gifts and graces proper for the Ministry, as not only the Church doth willingly acknowledge; but the enemies also will they nill they, are in their consciences convinced to be divine and excellent.  
And seeing it is evident that neither the Prophets under the law, nor many worthy Ministers that God hath raised up since the time of the Gospel, had ever before their entrance into the Ministry, their gifts solemnly approved or been ordained.  
Our Brethren must needs grant that this kind of ordination is not simply or absolutely necessary to the being of a Minister.  
To which also this may be added, that our Saviour in giving notice whereby the true Pastor should be discerned from the false, nameth only these, viz. that he enter himself, and lead the people in and out by that door.  
Secondly, that the people of God agree with him and consent to his Ministry.  
Thirdly, that the Porter (the holy Ghost) open the hearts of the hearers to him and his doctrine (a) which 3. notes doubtless our Saviour would not have rested in, if there could have been no true Minister without the ordination which our Brethren speak of, and urge that as a matter of absolute necessity: 
Their second reason (viz.) that we reccive our Ordination from Antichristian Bishops, ialso insufficient for, first, Our Bishops cannot truly be called Antichristian.  So that to conclude this point, we say that the ordinary course of entering into the Ministry is not kept; but a great imperfection and want is to be acknowledged where this election and ordination is not used; Yet is not the want such, as taketh away the very life, and being of a true ministry.  
Their second reason against our entrance is; That our ordination is received from Antichristian Prelates, and such as being persecutors of the godly, cannot be well accounted brethren, or members of the Church, much less can they give a calling to a Minister of the Church? whereunto we answer.  
First, 
Secondly, seeing our Bishops are such as can judge of the sufficiency of gifts, and are also Ministers It cannot be unlawful for him that is to be a Ministers to receive approbation and authority from them.  That the Bishops of England cannot truly be called Antichristian Prelates, for proof whereof, we refer ourselves unto that answer we have given unto their fourth Objection, against the whole body of our Church.  
Secondly. seeing it cannot be denied, that the Bishops are able to judge of such gifts as are required for the sufficiency of Ministers; yea that many of them have been such Ministers themselves, as to whose labours, the Lord hath set to his Seal, and who have also suffered persecution for the truth; we are persuaded, that (though it were not necessary, yet) it cannot be unlawful, for him that entereth into the ministry to be approved, and authorized even by them.  
And if our ordination be in this behalf faulty, how will out Brethren justify the calling of their own Ministers, 
Thirdly, the gifts & power to ordain which God hath committed to his Church, we may lawfully seek the benefit of it, even at worse mensch n●s then our Bishops are if we cannot otherwise come by it.  that have received ordination ever from the people, who neither by commandment, not example, can be found to have any such authority, nor are in any degree to capable of it, as the Bishops.  
Thirdly, the ordination we seek for, from the Bishops, is not theirs but committed, to the Church by Christ Himself: And seeing we have already proved, that there was in England a true Church even then when this authority was first given by Parliament, to the Bishops, and that the true Church (which without a ministry, cannot possibly be continued) is never without power to ordain Ministers: We may lawfully reverence, and seek for the benefit of this power, and pri●●ledge, which God hath given to his Church, though it were conveied unto us by men, less capable of this authority, than our Bishops are. And he that thinketh Christ's ordination, the better for the man, that bestoweth it, iucurreth (as we think) the danger of the curse, 
Fourthly. We may lawfully seek the Bishop's approbation, because from his hands only we can receive the civil Magistrates allowance to exercise our Ministry.  denounced against him, that putteth his trust in man, and maketh flesh his arm, and nith draws his heart from the Lord. jer. 17.5.  
Fifthly, If our Bishops were not at all capable of this power to give Ecclesiastical Ordination, yet seeing the Christian Magistrates approbation, is not to be refused by him that exerciseth a ministry in the Church, and that cannot be had in our Church, but by the hands of the Bishops we think that he who is fitted of God to the ministry, and hath also testimony of his fitness from such godly learned Brethren as have made trial of his gifts, and can judge of them, may lawfully accept and seek for this kind of approbation, if all other conditions be equal.  
Sixthly, Admit the Bishops from whom we receive our ordination, 
6. Though the Ordination received from the Bishops were as corrupt as baptismal received from popish Priests, Ye may he be a lawful Minister that hath no other Ordination then from the Bishops Their third Objection against our Ministry is, that our administration and exercise of that office whereunto we are thus called, is also Antichristian.  were indeed Antichristian, or Heretics (as we judge them not to be) yet why should we be bound to seek for any other ordination, more than another baptism, then that which we have received from Popish Priests in the time of ignorance; And seeing that Barrow and Groenwood, in the 54. page of their refutation, do not only account many to be true Christians, that never had other outward Baptism, then that which they had from Popish Priests, but plainly affirm, that such neither need, nor aught to be baptised again; we wonder why they dare not account us true Ministers, because of this ordination received from the Bishops.  
Shall ordination be thought more necessary to the being of a Minister, than baptism is to the being of a Christian; or shall an error in ordination, have more force to prove one no Minister, than an error in Baptism hath to prove one no Christian; or are our Bishops worse than the Popish. Priests, or the corruption in the form of our ordination, greater than those that are used in popish Baptism.  
The third thing they object against our Ministry, Is, that the admistration, and exercise of our function, is not agreeable to the Word, but Antichristian because (say they) as at our entrance, we swear Cannonicall Obedience to the Bishops; 
Fifthly, Which is insufficient to warrant their separation, for it is not utterly unlawful for us to yield some kind of obedience to, Bishops.  so do we perform it in our whole administration, by going to their Courts, by standing, and falling at their commandment?  
Whereunto we answer.  
First, that so long as the Christian Magistrate requireth we should yield obedience to the Bishops (and that with this limitation, (viz.) only in things lawful and honest) we think it not unlawful for us to give obedience to them, in those things they do by civil authority, though neither themselves, nor the Magistrate might well require us to do, for even our Saviour Himself yielded obedience to Cesar, in such a thing wherein Caesar could not lawfully exact obedience of him; as for the excommunication and suspentions, 
Mat. 17.24, 27  and such other censures as are merely Ecclesiastical? We answer. As the true Church of God, which from the Lord jesus hath received these keys of the Kingdom of Heaven, did though unadvisedly, and unlawfully deliver them over into the hands of the Bishops: And the Bishops being Preachers of the Word, though they should not have this power wholly committed unto them, yet are they capable of it. We see not how it should be utterly unlawful to reverence and yield to the censures of Christ's Church, being exercised, and administered even by them, unless we will say, that the Church presently looseth her right and power, to censure Offenders, when she committeth it unto any such men, as unto whom of right, either not at all, or not of right, only it belongeth.  
Secondly, 
Secondly, Not bind ourselves thereto by oath, so far as we do.  Now as we may lawfully yield some obedience to the Bishops in these things, so we may lawfully bind ourselves by oath to do it: if our oaths be required or us by the Christian Magistrates anthoririe, especially seeing we do by oath bind ourselves, to obey in regard of the civil authority, which is committed to them, by the Christian Magistrate.  
Thirdly, For our going to their Courts, this we answer. That seeing we do testify in our callings, our dislike to the vile, and odious corruptions of their Courts; And do also utterly refuse to yield obedience to any o● their unlawful decrees, we cannot justly be condemned for appearing intheir Courts, or any other place whereunto we are by His Majesty's authority summoned. And whereas the persons before whom we appear are judged usually corrupt, and enemies to that Reformation which we desire, and some of them also, such as (being no ministers themselves) do by all means seek the disgrace of our calling, and the utter discoutagement of such Christians, as in whom they perceive any sparks of true zeal) we account this our appeating at their Courts, not only for an abridgement of our liberty, but also for such a burden, as we have just cause to groan under, and to pray, that God would in His good time, move His Majesty's heart, to eat us of it. And yet as the Apostle being free was content, for the Church's sake, not only to become bound, in serving it with the labour of his hands, but also, by subjecting himselse to those Ceremonies, which in Christ were abolished, so may, and ought we for the Church's sake, to bear this burden, rather than to forsake, or refuse the ministry, when the Lord hath called, and fitted us unto it.  
For our yielding to the suspentions, and deprivations, we answer. That so long as the Bishops suspend, and deprive according to the Law of the Land, we account of the action herein, 
Fourthly, To cease from the execution of our ministry when they suspend or deprive us.  as of the act of the Church, which we may and aught to reverence, and yield unto, if they do otherwise, we have liberty given us by the Law, to appeal from them, if it be said, that the Church is not to be obeyed when it suspends, and deprives us, for such causes as we in our Consciences know to be insufficient? We answer. That it lieth in them to depose, that may ordain; and they may shut, that may open. And that as he may with a good conscience, execute a ministry, by the ordination, and calling of the Church, who is privy to himself of some unfitness (if the Church will press him to it) so may he who is privy to himself, of no fault that deserveth deprivation, cease from the execution of his ministry, when he is pressed thereunto by the Church. And if a guiltless person put out of his charge by the Church's authority, may yet continue in it, what proceed can there be against guilty persons, who in their own conceit, are always guiltless, or will at least pretend so to be; Seeing they also will be ready always to object against the Church's judgement, that they are called of God, and may not therefore give over the execution of their ministry at the will of man.  
And yet admitting it were merely unlawful, 
Fourthly, If this obedience we yield to them were utterly unlawful yet may we be true Ministers of Christ notwithstanding.  upon any respect to yield any new obedience at all, to the censures of the Bishops; yet how will it follow, that this our unlawful yielding, hath force sufficient to make us (ipso fasto) no true Ministers, unless you will say, that the High Priests, who were in Christ's time, that took and left their offices, at the will of tyrants, and heathen Princes, Were therefore not to be accounted Priests, for further answer, hereunto we refer the Reader, to that which we have above said to the fourth thing which they object against the whole body of our Assemblies; And to that also which we have already answered unto the fourth reason, which they bring against our office.  
The speech of the Apostls, 
The speech of the Apostles. Acts 4.19, 20, 15. most unskilfully alleged against us. 1 Tim. 6.2.  which they are wont to object against us in this case, may easily appear how unskilfully, it is alleged to them that will consider these three differences between their case and ours.  
First, they that inhibited the Apostles, were known, and professed enemies to the Gospel.  
Secondly, the Apostles were charged not to teach in the name of Christ, nor to publish any part of the Doctrine of the Gospel, which commandment might more hardly be yielded unto, than this of our Bishops, who though they cannot endure them, which teach that part of the truth that concerneth the good government, and reformation of the Church, yet are they not only content that the Gospel should be preached, but are also preachers of it themselves.  
Thirdly, The Apostles received not their calling, and authority from men 
(c) Galath. 2.1.  nor by the hands of men, but immediately from God Himself, and therefore also might not be restrained, or deposed by men; whereas we, though we exercise a function, whereof God is the Author, and we are also called of God to it, yet are we called and ordained by the hand, and ministry of men, and may therefore by men, be also deposed and restrained from the exercise of our ministry.  
The fourth Objection against our ministry is, 
There fourth Objection against our Ministry is that our maintenance is not according to Christ's directions, but jewish and Antichristian, which is not of force to condemn our ministry, Because we may be the true Ministers of Christ although we receive maintenance from all sorts of men.  That we are not maintained according to the direction Christ bathe given in his Testament, but our maintenance is lewish, and Antichristian: That this is a principal matter objected against our ministry, appeareth in the fourth page of their Collection of letters, and conferences, and sundry other parts of their writings,  
And lest they should seem to say it only, they bring sundry reasons, to prove that our maintenance is such, as no Minister of Christ, can accept, or live by, for say ye, our Ministers receive maintenance from all sorts of men in their parish without difference. This is alleged in their collection of liberties and page 18. and called in the 145. page of the refutation. An execrable sacrilege, and covetous making merchandise of the holy things of God, a letting out of ourselves to hire to the profane, for filthy Lucre. To this first reason they bring against our mintenance, this answer we give.  
First, That the Christian Magistrate is bound to use his authority for the furtherance of the subjects in all things that concern godliness, and honesty, and so see that the moral Law be kept by them, whereas therefore the Christian Magistrate (in conscience of his duty) hath provided by the Law, that all his Subjects should (of the increase God giveth them) contribute somewhat towards the maintenance of their Minister; we may truly be said to receive our maintenance, rather from the Magistrate then from the people.  
Secondly, the Magistrate may lawfully appoint so much of the Subject's goods (as by Law is given to the Ministers maintenance) to be employed to this or any other good use, as is evident by that, which the Apostle saith, Rom. 13.7.  
Thirdly, the Magistrate may without any show of wrong compel the subjects to pay this part of their goods, which they give to their Minister, because in Parliament it was voluntarily bestowed, even by the people themselves: whose free act that is, to be accounted, which is enacted and done in Parliament.  
Fourthly, It is evident by the Word, that the offerings which heathens voluntarily brought, and gave to the building, and beautifiing of the Temple were accepted of, as appeareth in the stories. 
(a) Ezra. 1.4, 6   
Fifthly, Seeing the Apostle calleth it our own bread, 
Mehem 2.8. 2 Thes. 3.12.  we get by our honest labours, 
(b) Eph. 4.28  and our Saviour saith in this case, that the labourer is worthy of his hire, 
(c) Luke 10.7  we may with comfort, and good conscience, take maintenance of the wicked that live in our parishes, for whose sake, both publicly and privately, we take pains, and to whom the benefit of our labour is offered; seeing that the Apostle avoucheth 
(d) 1 Cor. 9.11.  that such as sow spiritual things amongst people (though God bless not their feed) may lawfully, and honestly, reap their carnal things.  
Sixthly, As for the testimony of the holy Scriptures, which our brethren allege in this point, we give this answer unto them. To the place, Levit. 22.25. we answer.  
First, that the meaning is, that a stranger being a Proselyte, might no more lawfully offer any of these unclean, and imperfect sacrifices spoken of in the verses going before, than a Jew might.  
Secondly, If the unbelieving stranger were meant here, yet is there nothing spoken here of the maintenance, which should come to the Priests, for the intent of the Law, in this place is to show what manner of sacrifices should be offered to the Lord, and not what maintenance Priests should have, which is evident, both for that the sacrifice is here called, the bread of their God, and also for that elsewhere the Priests might receive maintenance, which might have blemish, as in the first fruits, and first borne. To that place, Pro. 15.8. and all such like, we answer.  
First, that thought the action their spoken of (for the substance thereof) be good and lawful; yet as it cometh from them whose hearts are not purged by faith, it is indeed abominable in God's sight, as all other the actions of the wicked are.  
Secondly, That they abuse this place, for it is there meant of the spiritual services of God, and not of corporal maintenance, and lastly, if it were to be understood of the maintenance of the Minister, yet should not the Minister sin, in taking it, because they sin in giving it; Because by the Law, it was provided, that all jews clean, or unclean, good or bad should pay tithes without exception. To the place Phillip 4 18. We answer.  
First, That he speaketh not there of maintenance due to the ministry, but of the contribution, made to the afflicted Saints, and to himself in particular, that had a principal portion, in the sufferings of the Saints.  
Secondly, if they urge that the maintenance of the Minister is also an odour that smelleth sweet, and a sacrifice acceptable to God, which nothing that proceedeth from the wicked can be: we refer ourselves herein to the answer we have made to the Prov. 15.8. cited by them to the same purpose.  
Their second reason against our maintenance is, 
Secondly, although our main'enance be fixed and certain.  That it is fixed and certain. This is alleged in the 61. page of their Discovery, and in sundry other parts of their writings, Concerning which we answer.  
First, that this can be no good reason against all our Ministers, seeing that we have some preach ordinarily and painfully, who yet either live wholly of themselves, or take nothing of the people, but that which they give voluntarily.  
Secondly, if it be a great fault to live upon a set stipend, yet seemeth it strange unto us, that they should account it so great to make a nullity of our Ministry.  
Thirdly, we can see no reason why it should be thought either unlawful or unconvenient to set stipends to be given unto, and received by the Minister: for first, under Moses law, 
(a) Deut. 14.22 Numb. 35.2.9. Iosh. 21.18. etc. 2 Chron. 6.64.  a certain and set course was prescribed for the Minister's maintenance, and the people appointed what they should give. Now if it be said of the manner of the levitical maintenance, that it was Ceremonial, yet would we fain know what Ceremony or shadow there can be in the certainty thereof: Shall we say that together with the Ceremony itself, all the equity also and moral reason is abrogated.  
Secondly, as Ezekiel describing the pattern of the new Sanctuary that should be under the Gospel, alludeth unto a certain and set maintenance that should be given to the ministry: 
(b) Ezr. 45.1.5  so there be fundry Phrases and Comparisons in the new Testament used by Christ and the Apostles, from which the same may be very probably gathered to be lawful and fit, as when the Minister's maintenance is compared to the wages and hire of a servant, 
(c) Luke 10.17 2 Tim. 5.18.  and when it is compared to the soldiers pay, 
(d) 1 Cor. 9.7.  which both things are certain and set.  
Thirdly, it standeth with sound reason that the Ministers maintenance should be certain: For first, seeing it is already proved that a sufficient maintenance must necessarily be given to the Minister of the people, how can it be unlawful, either for the people by their own promise, or for the Magistrate by law to bind them unto that which they should voluntarily do of themselves? Secondly, by this kind of maintenance, sundry of the people's infirmities (as their grudging to give aught when it is in their power to give or not to give, their base estimation likewise of the Minister, and looking for civil duty at his hand, and many other such like) are best prevented: Yea, we deny that ever any Church was so well informed, wherein the most part of the people had not need to have such infirmities restrained in them, by the wisdom and authority of the Christian Magistrate.  
Touching the places of Scripture 
(e) 1 Thess. 2.5. 1 Tim. 6.8. jude 11.13.  in this point alleged, by them we give this answer. First, that they condemn only the covetousness of men, and not the set maintenance of Ministers, which may be received without covetousness. Secondly, if they will enforce these places against set payments to the Minister, they may as well enforce them against all set payments to the Prince, to the servant, to the labourer, or any other. Thirdly if not, then seeing the Apostles rule 
(a) Tim. 5.8.  doth concern even the Ministers as well as others, why should it be thought covetousness in him to provide a certain and set maintenance for himself and his family, more than the same care is in any other Christian?  
To the place Mat. 10. we say that the Commandment which our Saviour Christ gave there to his disciples was temporary, and concerned that especial voyage only wherein (for their encouragement to the Ministry) our Saviour assureth them, that they should not need to fear the want of maintenance; for he would supply that extraordinarily as it were, by his especial providence, in inclining the hearts of men to maintain them: And that this is so, may appear by these reasons. 
Verse 7.8.  First, if it be a perpetual rule we may thence gather, 1. that the Minister ought now to have no abiding place, neither two coats, two pair of shoes, nor a staff; neither that they may possess any thing of their own.  
Secondly, they then received their gifts of preaching and working of miracles freely without cost, and therefore were bound from covenanting for stipend, to dispense those gifts, receiving no more than for their present necessity of food and raiment, which cannot be so said of those, whose bringing up in learning is costly, and whose study is painful.  
Thirdly, by the commandment which our Saviour Christ giveth 
(b) Luke 22.35 36. 1 Cor. 96, 7. Matth. 20.  for provision for themselves; And that which Paul challengeth, it is evident, that the restraint given, Mat. 10. was but temporary, yea ad mit it might be proved from hence, that no set maintenance were given to the Ministers during the Apostles time (which cannot be) yet followeth not that there should be none: Now seeing that the Church was then without those nourishing fathers which the Lord promised by the Prophet, 
(c) Esay 49 23, ●●  without whose authority we see not how that order for forced maintenance could be taken. Neither doubt we to acknowledge even this for a special fruit of that blessing promised to come to the Church by Christian Magistrates, whereas they said, that whatsoever is given to the maintenance of God's Service, should be free, and voluntary, and allege for that, these places, Exodus 15.2. 2 Cor. 8.12. 2 Cor. 9.5, 7. we answer. That the bond of the people's promise, and Magistrates Law is no hindrance, to the freedom and voluntariness, seeing the service, and obedience of David was free and voluntary; Notwithstanding the vow and oath he bond himself with. 
Psal. 119.106. N●bem. 10.38.  So was that also which is mentioned in Nehemiah, for if Covenanting, should take away the voluntariness of the act, than should it not be lawful to covenant with servants and labourers or any other; Yea the Lord our God doth bind Himself by Covenant, to give that reward to the faith, and obedience of his servants, which yet he giveth most freely and voluntarily.  
The third reason they allege against our maintenance, 
Thirdly. Although we be maintained by Tithes.  Is this; That we are maintained by jewish tithes, and concerning which, they have these words, In the 60. page of their discovery; It is evident, who are thus maintained by those jewish Tithes, and offerings, are not the ministers of Christ, and a little after, these Priests, and people still retain the levitical decimations, in the same form, to the same ends. And page 16. I could never see any difference between the jews and them, save that the Swineherds, tythe-Pïgges and Geese, etc.  
To all which, we thus answer: First, It is evident, that the tithes are not held amongst us, by virtue of the levitical Law, but only by the positive Law of our Land, for proof whereof, these reasons following may be sufficient.  
First, If this kind of maintenance were given to the Minister, for conscience and obedience to that Law; why should not the first fruits also, offerings and divers other things, which by a plain commandment, were due to the levitical Priesthood be given us as well as tithes?  
Secondly, The manner of tything (which in divers parts of our Land is diversely used, and which through custom also, is many ways altered) proveth that paying of tithes amongst us, is not according to the levitical Law, nor in religeous obedience thereunto.  
Thirdly, The Law (by consent of the states in the Parliament) having alenated, the tithes in many places, from the Minister, unto the Prince, and other men; doth thereby declare, that it appointeth not the paying of the tithes, by virtue of the Law of God.  
Fourthly, Sundry of our Ministers are (and that even in the judgement of our whole Church) lawfully by other means maintained, then by tithes, which is also a plain demonstration, that both the Leviticall Law is not held to be in force with us; and if it were, we might yet have some true Ministers in our Land notwithstanding.  
Secondly, As the Prince (without any show of Jewish superstition) may require of the Ministers first fruits, and tenths, and of all the rest of the subjects fifteen, and subsidies for the maintenance of the wars, and other civil purposes, so doubt we not, but he may as well especially by act of Parliament (which is also the act of the people) require tenths of his people to the maintenance of the ministry, of which (as we have said before) he is bound to have a more special care, and regard then of the maintenance of the wars, or any other civil estate.  
Their fourth reason against our maintenance is, 
Fourthly, Although we be maintained by offerings and mortuary.  That it ariseth from popish offerings and mortuaries: Concerning which, we answer, as followeth.  
First, Their be sundry of our Ministers that receive none at all, against whose Congregations, and Ministers, this reason cannot hold, and many even of them to whom the Law alloweth offerings, have refused them that were accustomed to be given at the Church, and burials, and such other, as the receiving whereof, they see would be likely to nourish superstition in the people.  
Secondly, If all did receive and live by offerings, we see not what pollution can come to their ministry thereby, for why may not that creature of God, which was first given to profane, and superstitious uses, be now lawfully translated to the maintenance of God's service, seeing that even under the Law, translation was lawful, when (for a Ceremony, to shadow what detestation the people of God should bear to the manners of the heathen, and how they should be separated from them:) Many things were made unclean to the jews, that are not so to us; So also the Iron, and Brass, Silver, and Gold of Jericho, 
a josua 6.24.  was put into the treasure of God's house, as appeareth in the story of Joshuab: And David dedicated unto the Lord, the brass, and silver, and gold, of all the Nations, that he subdued; as may also appear by Samuel. 
b 2 Sam. 8.11.  Now if those goods that were not only put a part to an Idolatrous use, by a civil institution, but also actually abused to Idolatry, might yet lawfully bereceaved for the maintenance of the true service of God, how much more may the money we receive for offerings, etc. be lawfully taken and enjoyed by us, seeing whatsoever original the money, and institution had, yet was it never applied to any Idolatrous use.  
Thirdly, If those offerings were polluted things, yet are they too accidental to overthrow the very being, and nature of our ministry.    

Our People may beaccounted Members of a true visible CHURCH.  
III. EXCEPTION.  
THeir third general exception, is against our people, and the private Members of our Assemblies, Whom they affirm to be such, as no true Church of God can consist of.  

ANSWER.  
THe reasons amongst us to account of people, 
Our people (say they) are such as cannot be members of a true Church. But we have good reasons to account our people holy & true Members of the visible Church.  for the members of the true Church are these.  
First, We know many in whom (we think) we do discern infallible notes, of an unfeigned conversion.  
Secondly, That all that are (by many of our Ministers) admitted to the Sacrament, and other the privileges of the Church are such as can give account (in some true measure) of their faith, and do not only generally profess obedience; but when they are convinced of any particular sin, they are also willing to profess parricular sorrow and purpose of amendment.  
Thirdly, many of those who are wicked and ignorant, we cannot see just cause to account them wilfully ignorant, nor obstinately rebellious, and therefore we may lawfully esteem them brethren, 
2 Th●s 3, 14, ●●  notwithstanding their ignorance, and sin, and this we think the Apostles own words will warrant us to do.  
Fourthly, our people in general profess the true faith, and obedience of Christ, which makes them members of the ●●ole Church, as we have already proved, and if an being dealt with according to the rule that Christ prescribeth, shall be found wilful and obstinate in his ignorance and sin, 
〈◊〉. 18.15, 17  then as he ceaseth to profess the true faith, and obedience of Christ: So may we by the Laws of our Land, cease to account him a member of our Church.  
The first thing they object against our people is this, 
Their first reason against our people, is that th●●r can no separation, be discerned amongst them but the consist of all ●o●●s. Which reason ●s f●lse and insufficient.  That the ignorant and profane multi●u le, as they are confusedly, by our Baptism ma●●e members of our Church, and admitted to all other th' privileges thereof, so is there no separation (say they) to be observed amongst them in their ordinary conversation: concerning which matter these are their own words in the ninth page of their discovery: All the profane and wicked of the Land, Atheists, Papists, Anabaptists, Heretics of all sorts, gluttons, riotous, blasphemous, etc. and who not, that dwelleth in this land, or is within the Kings-dominions, all without exception, are received into, and nourished in the bosom of this Church, with the Word and Sacraments: none are here refused, none are here kept out? Whereunto we answer.  
First, 
〈…〉 ●2. ●1, ●2 53. 〈◊〉 14.4, & 17, 4, 5.  That even by the preaching of the Word, that separation which the Scripture so much commendeth, is wrought and evidently to be discovered amongst the people of our Land, and very many of our people there be, that do carefully shun the private familiarity of all notorious offenders.  
Secondly, As all our Ministers may by Law, so many of them do keep from the Lords Table every ignorant person, and notorious offend or.  
Thirdly, Many of our Ministers do refuse to receive such into the Church by Baptism, whose Parents will not make a confession, of true faith and obedience to Christ. Neither doth public authority of Law enforce us to receive any man's Child, against whom it may be manifestly proved, that he professeth not the true faith.  
Fourthly, children may lawfully be admitted to baptism, though both their Parents be profane, if those who are in the stead of Parents to them, do require baptism for them, and give their promise to the Church for their religious education, seeing they may be lawfully accounted within God's covenant, if any of their ancestors, in any Generations were faithful. 
a Exod. 20.5. Their second Objection against our people is that none of them be accounted holy faithful, because they obey not Christ nor practise his ordinances. Which is also false and insufficient, for first themselves know many of our people to be such as have religiously reform their own persons and families, and carefully sought the reformation of the Church.   
The second thing they object against our people is, That the best of them are without true faith, because they live not in obedience of Christ, set up among them, nor practise his Ordinances? Whereunto we answer.  
First, It is a most rash and presumptuous judgement to deny them amongst us to be a faithful people, of whom these our brethren themselves do know that they have by the hearing of the Word, been brought to such a faith, as bathe been effectual in the Reformation of their lives, because (partly for that they knew it not, and partly for that they are hindered by authority) they practise not the whole discipline of Christ; And this rash judgement which they give of our people, is so much the more blame-worthy, because they cannot be ignorant, with what care our people have sought by all good, and dutiful means the Reformation of the Church: And how much they have be wailed and mourned for the want thereof, for which matter also, we refer the Reader to the answer, we have above given to their fourth and fifth objections against the whole body of our Assemblies.  
Secondly, Our people deserve not to be blamed, for that they erect not the discipline; for,  
First, They esteem both our Prince to be a most lawful and a Christian Magistrate, and our Ministers to be true Ministers of Christ, by whose means, seeing they have received from God, and do still enjoy, not those blessings only, that belong to the comfort of this life, but the means of eternal happiness, and the effectual assurance of it also; they are justly afraid, that by enterprising a public Reformation, not only without, but contrary to the direction, and liking of them, who by God's Word ought to have, if not the only, yet the principal hand, in that work, they should highly offend God.  
2. They cannot find any warrant in holy Scripture for them that are private Members of the Church, to erect the discipline, no not though the Magistrate and Ministers, who should deal in this work were altogether profane and ungodly, in deviding the Land of Canaan, which was a type of Heaven, and of the Church under the Gospel, and in all the Church causes, that were dealt in under the government of josua, which was a type of, Christ's government, neither private persons, nor the whole multitude, had the managing of matters, 
Iosh. 19.51. & 21, 1. & 22, 14  but the people did all by the Elders, and chief Fathers, ᵃ which also was commanded: 
b Numb. 34.16.28.  So in public Church causes under the Gospel, the Lord hath ordained certain special men chosen out from among the people, by their consent to rule and govern the rest. 
c 1 Tim. 5.17. & 4.14   
And where God hath sanctified and separated a special sort of men to any office, or the administration thereunto belonging, there hath he restrained all others that are not of the same sort, from doing the actions properly belonging to that office, as may well appear by comparing these places of holy Scripture together. 
d Numbr. 4.15. with the first, Chron 13.7, 10 Num. 4.20. with 1 Sam. 6.19. Num. 16.40. & 3.10. Heb. 5.4. with 2 Chron. 26.16, 19 Acts 14.23.   
Therefore also we see the faithful, at Listra, ●conium, and Antiochiah, l add no Elders, till the Apostles by their consent, ordained them: No more had they at Creta till Ti●us, was sent to that purpose.  
To the places of holy Scripture, which they allege for this their second Objection against our people? we answer.  
First, That some of them, 
a jer. 31.34. Ezech. 44.8, 9 Cant. 4.7. 1 Pet. 2.9. Acts 15.9.  concern the invisible Church, and therefore are ignorantly applied to the description of them that are members of the Church visible.  
As if no measure of faith, and holiness, were to be allowed by men in the judging of the members of the Church visible, but that only which the Lord Himself alloweth of in juding of the elect Members of the visible Church: Whereas it is evident, that to the making of the Members of the visible Church, an outward obedience and profession of faith is sufficient, though there be no inward grace, nor truth in the heart.  
Secondly, That some of them require indeed, that every Christian should seek the Kingdom of God, and the place where God is worshipped, according to his Word, submit themselves to the Yoke of Christ, and to obey him in all his Ordinances: but that the people without either the Magistrate, or Ministers help, or consent, should reform the Church, and erect the discipline, they are so fare from commanding, that if they be well compared, with that we have above said, they will be found to command the contrary.  
The third thing they object against our people, Is, That though some of them had once been faithful, yet by tollerating in their Assemblies, the open profane, by wanting power to cast them out, and communicateing with them in their worship of God, they are now become not we Church of Christ? Whereunto we answer.  
First, that the godly which are in our Assemblies, do not at all tolerate the wicked profane, but do as much (as in them lieth) show their dislike to them, mourning also for their profaneness, and for the want of Christian discipline, whereby they might be separated: Yea the very Laws of our Church (as hath been above said) do separate from our Assemblies the open profane.  
Secondly, admit they did not at all shut out the prophanie (either because they know not their right, or for that they are hindered and restrained to do it, or that they sin in not using their right in this case) or if it were granted that the people, even the private members of the assemblies had full authority given them by Christ, without the Ministers or Magistrates consent to cast out and excommunicate the open profane (the contrary whereof hath been before sufficiently proved) yet might they as lawfully for want of power, or for such inconveniences tolerate the prophanie amongst them, and so forbear the execution of their authority in this case, as either David did spare Joab, 
2 Sam 3 39 2. Kings 14 5.  or Amaziah those rebels that slew his father because they were not strong enough do justice upon them.  
Thirdly, the communicating in God's service with these open sinners, 
Thirdly, they may be true members of the Church, though they do communicate in Gods, worship with the open profane, as may appear by the example of the godly that lived under the law.  whom the godly in some of our assemblies are enforced to communicate with, or to want the benefit of God's public worship is not sufficient, either to make him profane, or pollute unto them the holy things of God; for proof whereof we allege, First, the examples of the godly that lived under the Ceremonial law. The Prophets either served not God at all in the Temple, or else they joined in God's service with many that were notoriously stained with gross sins: for who are they whose sins the Prophets so mightily cry out upon, 
(d) Esay 1.10. Jer. 5.1.9. and 7 8.11. Ezek. 16. 4●.52. and 22, 25.26.  but such as were admitted to the public worship of God.  
If the Babylonians and the Chaldeans should violently have included themselves into the Church assemblies of God's people in the time of their captivity; should the godly Jews by such presence of the wicked which they wanted power to hinder, either have been persuaded to cease from public worship of God, or have been polluted by it. Was Annah and Simeon, or the blessed Virgin and joseph polluted by communicating 
(a) Luke 2.22.27.36.  with the Jews in their time, when not only the people, but also the Priests with whom they communicated, were both in doctrine and life so much corrupted: Or did this stain all that Justice for which Zacharias is so commended for that he kept his course, and so served in the Temple even in that corrupt age. But what need further examples be brought for the practice of the godly that lived under the law, seeing it is evident that our Saviour himself was by Circumcision made a member of that corrupt church of jury, 
Luke 2.21.22.  and presented in that temple when he was an infant, and when he came to years of discretion he communicated with them in the public service of God; for he went with his Parents to the Passeover, 
(d) Luke 2.41.  he went to the feast of the Tabernacles, 
(e) john 7 10.  his cnstome was to frequent the Synagogues on the Sabbath day, even before he entered into the Ministry, 
(f) Luke 4 16.  yea he commandeth the people so far to hearken unto, and to sollow the directions of those wicke● Scribes and Pharisees, as they kept themselves within t e chair of Moses, and taught his doctrine 
(g) M●. 23, 1, 2, ●. : But this reason taken from the examples of the godly that lived under the law, Henry Barrow in the 39 and 40 pages of his Discovery seeketh to shift off after this manner, viz That nothing then defiled the godly, if the Priest and People with whom they communicated were not Legally and Ceremonially polluted: for the Priests and Ecclesiastical State than were not to med i'll with the faults of manners, nor to separat●● any from the Congregations for moral sins: but it is now under the Gospel far other wise where all things are become new and spiritual, and where all manner of known sins obst nately held and maintained, have as great force to defile men in the judgement of the Church, and to deserve separation as legal pollutions, leprosies, running issues and other diseases had then.  
To which his reply we answer that moral transgressions did defile men, and make them worthy to be separated from God's public worship then, as well as they do now; for it is evident by the law that they who had morally offended, were kept from the Congregation till they had professed their repentance, and till atonement had been made for them.  
For to what purpose can we imagine that public confession bringing a sin offering, 
●evit 4 13.14.22 27, and 5. 1●. 〈◊〉 6.27. N●●n 15.22.25  and seeking of atonement to be made by the Priest should be enjoined him that had committed a moral transgression, if without the doing of these things, he might be still partaker of the public worship, and if these things do not import a restraint from the public worship, them will it follow, that the moral transgressor was left free from all censure and Ecclesiastical punishment, notwithstanding this his open and manifest contempt of God's ordinances: for there is no other censure appointed in the whole law for the punishment of this contempt, and consequently the whole worship of God did lie open to most notorious profanation and confusion,  
Secondly, the man that did morally offend is as well called unclean by the holy Ghost, as he that had transgressed the Ceremonial law, and the very same word (Tame) that is put for Ceremonial uncleanness in one place, 
(b) Le●●. 5.2.3.  is put for moral uncleanness in another, 
(c) 〈◊〉 ●8 23.24.29.  and consequently where it it is said in the book of Chronicles, that by Jehoiadab his appointment, 
a 2 C●●●n. 23.29.  porters were set by the gates of the house of the Lord, that none that was unclean in any thing should enter in, it may and aught to be understood of the restraining of them that were morally, as well as those that were Ceremonially unclean.  
thirdly, the Priest was commanded to deal with him, that in some things sinned of ignorance against the Moral Law, even in the same sort as he was to deal with him that was legally polluted through ignorance. 
b L●vit 5 1. Levit. 6. ●●7.   
fourthly, He that was privy to himself of Moral transgression, was bound in Conscience to abstain from the facrifices and Sacraments though he were not ceremonially polluted: 
Esay 1.10, 14. 〈◊〉 7 9.11. 〈◊〉 5 23, 24.  And were not the Church Governors, then bound to separate such, when they also, and the Congregation were made privy to such transgressions?  
But why spend we so many words in confuting this most absurd assertion, seeing themselves in the 89. and 90. pages of their refutation, affirm, and labour to prove, by many testimonies, that under the Law many were to be separated from the Congregation for moral transgressions.  
A second reason to prove that the godly are not polluted, 
Secondly, Of the godly that lived under the Gospel.  by communicating in the true worship of God, with known and open sinners, may be taken from the example of the godly that have lived in the Churches under the Gospel.  
The godly that were in the Church of Cor. remained Saints, and faithful still, 
(d) 1 Cor. 1.2.  though they had communicated in God's worship, with the incestuous person, with such as accounted fornication no sin, as came profanely to the Sacrament, as denied the Resurrection.  
The faithful in Pergamus receive no pollution, from them that lived amongst them, and joined with them in God's worship, and yet maintanied the doctrine of Balaam, and of the Nicolaitames, nor they of Thyatira from Jes●bell, who was tolerated amongst them to teach and deceive, and cause many to commit fornication amongst them, 
Revel. 2.14, 15. Revel. 2.20,  and to eat meat sacrificed to Idols.  
And (to let pass all other examples) we would gladly know this of our brethren themselves, whether if it should so fall out in their Assemblies (as it may in the most perfect Church, that is upon the earth) that some one wicked man should remain uncast out, either through the ignorance, or partiality, or fear of the Church governor's, they should for that one man's sake, deprive themselves of all the comfort they find in their meetings; if they would not, why give they not the like liberty to the godly amongst us, who have, and do still look for as much comfort in our Assemblies, as they do in theirs: If they would then who is so blind, as not to see that their Congregation is a very Babel, and place full of miserable confusion, or so mad, as either to joune himself unto it, or being joined, to remain in it, any longer? If they allege that the former examples are all unfitly applied unto our people, for that they were all true Churches, whereunto the godly above named, did join themselves, and therefore were not easily to be forsaken, and the worship wherein they communicated with the wicked, was the true worship of God (whereas neither our Assemblies are true Churches, nor our worship the true worship of God,) or they continued not in this their fault, with that obstinancy, that we and our people do?  
We answer, That they beg that, which is in question between us, for neither do our people doubt whether it be the true Church, and worship of God, wherein they communicate, nor do they see how they have been convinced of sin in this action. And we have already proved at large, both that our Church, is a true Church, and our worship the true worship of God, and that we cannot justly be charged with obstinate continuance, in those wants and corruptions, that are now amongst us.  
To the places of Scripture which they bring against our people in this point in the 68 page of their Collection of Letters, and conferences? We answer, that they are all most unskilfullie applied, for although some 
a Levit. 20.24. john 15.16.  of them do prove, that God's people should be separated from the rest of the world: Some 
b Esay 65 11. Ezech. 16.25.  of them that they may not offer sacrifice unto a multitude of Gods, nor join with Idolators, neither in the false worship of God, nor in voluntary leagues, and familiarity; 
c 2 Cor. 6.14 17  other some that the Minister must deal sincerely, in the delivery of God's Message to his people, not mixing any vile opinion, or assertion of his own, with the precious Word of God, nor applying the Word to their humours and liking, but cause them rather to frame, and apply themselves unto it, 
d I●r. 15.19.  yet do no one of these prove either, that the communicating in the true worship of God, with some that are profane, is of force, to cut off a people from the Church, and covenant of God; or that the godly should rather abstain from the exercise of God's true worship, than use them in the company of some others that are ungodly.  
Or that it is the sin of the people, that such are not separated from amongst them; And surely we cannot but wonder that our brethren do thus deal with the sacred Word of God; they use to fill the Margins of their books with such store of places of Scripture, that the simple might think that they have even a cloud of witnesses against us; when themselves could not but know, that the Scripture is by them dragged as it were by violence, to bear witness in a matter, for which they have not one word to speak.    

The Conclusion.  
FRom these three Exceptions that have been above answered, they infer this conclusion, that therefore they may lawfully, and aught to separate themselves from us in such sort, as they do. In this conclusion, there are two Articles, whereunto we will answer severally.  
The first Article in their conclusion is this: The Assemblies which we go from, are such, as the Word of God doth warrant us to go from?  
Whereunto we answer; That we may much more strongly conclude upon that which we have above written, that because we have a true Church, consisting of a lawful ministry, and a faithful people, therefore they cannot separate themselves from us, but they must needs incur the most shameful and odious reproach of manifest Schism.  
The places of holy Scripture which they allege to warrant their separation by; we affirm to be of no force, to conclude that which they are brought for, which shall more plainly appear when they are considered of a part, and sorted so, as the variety of their nature requireth.  
The first sort of their testimonies concern only that private, 
1 Cor. 5.9, 13 Ephe. 5.7, 10, 11 2 Thes. 3.6, 14.15.  and voluntary familiarity, which Christ hath forbidden to have with the wicked that live in the Church, this shall appear to be the true meaning of the Apostle, even of that place of 1 Cor. 5. which in the 218. page of their refutation, and in sundry other places of their writings, they urge so, as it may seem they judge it to be of more force, for this purpose, than all the rest.  
First the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, used by the Apostle, both in this place and the 2 Thes. 3. doth with a double composition with two such prepositions, note a most familiar acquaintance and conversation.  
Secondly, It cannot be showed in all the Scripture, where this phrase to (eat) being barely and generally set down, without any addition is taken for the eating of the Sacrament.  
Thirdly, If the Apostle had meant a separation in the Church Assemblies, he would have commanded the Church rather to cut off, and to put from them, these wicked men then to separate themselves from the wicked.  
Fourthly, It appeareth by the tenth and eleventh verses, being compared together, that the Apostle wrote the second time to clear his meaning in that which he had wrote before; And therefore in this place be requireth no more separation from brethren, that are fornicators, and then the Corinthians did think he had (in a former letter) from such fornicators were out of the Church; Now the Corinthians could never imagine, that when the Apostle forbade them to eat with Heathens and Infidels that were fornicators, and his meaning should be to forbid them the communicating with such in the service of God: for they never had accustomed to communicate so; And therefore the separation he requireth, must needs be meant only of private, and voluntary familiarity. If they object that the Apostle in requiring separation from the wicked in private conversation, doth much more forbid all society with them in the worship of God, seeing that thereby we join ourselves much nearer together then by any civil fellowship (as they affirm in the 218. page of their refutation) We answer, that the reason followeth not; for, First, It is in a private man's power to keep from his first Table any wicked man, in whose hand, yet it lieth not to shut any from the Lords Table.  
Secondly, Each Christian as he is bound, by the commandment of God to the exercises of Religion, especially in such as are public, so is he to forbear the private farmiliaritie of the wicked.  
Thirdly, Even as a Christian may eat privately with a wicked man, or with an excommunicate person, in some cases, when his company cannot be eschewed, as being in an Army, or Prison, or ship upon the Sea, amongst a company of vile wicked men, being by the Prince, or any other that hath power enforced either to do so, or utterly to want all food, so much more is it lawful for a Christian to eat with the wicked man at the Lords Table, wherein he is enforced either to do so, or utterly to want all the great benefits and comfort that God offereth him in the Sacrament.  
The second sort of their Testimonies, 
a Matth. 7.15. Rom. 16.17. 2 Tim. 3.5. Titus 2.6.  whereby they labour to warrant their separation, concern only the avoiding and taking heed of false Prophets, blind guides, hypocritical, and profane deceivers, and  they can with no peace to their consciences, ground their separation upon them, till they have sufficiently proved, that not some of our Ministers, but all are not only faulty in their practice, but teach also unsound, and corrupt doctrine, which they will never be able to prove.  
The third sort of their Testimonies, 
b 2 Cor. 6.14.18 ●evel. 18.4  do indeed partly concern that separation, which Christians should make from Idolatours in the service of God, yet do they no ways serve, to justify this their separation from us unless they could prove (which they are not able to do) that those Assemblies which these Scriptures command a separation from, were in the profession of truth equal to us, or that the corruptions which are amongst us, are equal unto such as were in those Assemblies. Besides these test imonies, they seek by two reasons, to prove the necessity of their separation from us, whereof the first is taken from the hurt that may come to the true Christian by communicating with the wicked; The other from the hurt he may do to the wicked, with whom he doth communicate.  
Concerning the first, they have these words; in the 97. page of their refutation. A little Leaven, leaveneth the whole lump, so one openly unworthy received to the Lords Supper, maketh all the Communicants guilty. And in the 34. page of their discovery; The known, and suffered sin of any one member is contagious to all such as communicate in Prayers, and Sacraments, with such an obstinate offender, and maketh them as guilty in God's sight, as he himself is? Whereunto we answer.  
First, That we have already proved by many examples (in the answer we have above given unto the last thing they object against the people, and private members of our Church) that the godly receive no contagion from the wicked, with whom they are enforced to communicate in the true worship of God.  
Secondly, That their assertion may by reason, appear evidently to be most absurd, for if the presence of the wicked should of its own nature make the action of the Sacrament, and prayer void, and of none effect to the faithful, that communicate with him, than should we never without great doubting, and wavering communicate in those holy exercises in such a Congregation, where all that we join with, are not well known unto us, for fear their should be in the company, some open offenders whom ourselves know not of. If our knowledge, and privity to his sin, be the thing that makes his presence contagious to us, especially when we haye admonished him, 
a Ezec. 18.20.  and by all means testified our dislike to his sin, so fare as in us lieth. Then how is the Prophet to be understood, when he saith; the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon his own head, but admit this was granted that the presence of the wicked in prayer, and Sacrament, did infect the godly, how will they excuse their refusal to hear the Word preached in our Assemblies, seeing it is so clear by the Apostles speech, 
b Cor. 14.24, 25.  that the preaching of the Word, might be of force, to do them good, though some that joined with them in the hearing of it were Infidels.  
To their second reason, wherein they pretend a charitable regard of us, who by their joining with us in God's worship, may be hardened in the liking of our corruptions, and by their separation, may happily be brought to Repentance.  
We answer, that the godly man who hath reproved the open offender, shunned his private familiarity, and hath gone so fare in testilying his dislike to his sin, as the bounds of his calling will permit, is no way accessary to his sin, nor hath any fellowship with the unsruitfull works of darkness, 
c Ephes. 5.11.  and if that any wicked man will imagine, that the godly do not much dislike him, because they will not for his sake, eat the public worship of God; it is an offence taken and not given, and therefore such as wherewith the conscience of a godly man need not to be troubled.  
Thus have we answered, that which they pretend for the warrant, and necessity of their separation from our Assemblies. And now lest any should be justly offended by thinking that in this apology, we make for our Church, we do any way plead for Baal. or seek to daub up the breaches of our Church with untempered mortar, and so run ourselves into the danger or that curse, which the Lord denounceth against them, that call darkness light, and speak good of evil.  
We therefore freely confess, that there are (indeed) in our Church great corruptions, and that is the great sin of our Ministers, that they do not with so much zeal, and courage reveal and show their distike of them, and of our people, that they mourn not, nor seek by all homble and earnest means to God, and the Magistrate for Reformation of them, as they ought to do. And yet (though many in this Land, do both know, and mourn, and make known also in their callings their great dislike unto those corruptions that are amongst us, as much as any of these brethren with truth can do, we dare confidently affirm, that the corruptions of our Church, are not such, as for which an. Christian may make separation from us, and that we are hereby induced to avouch, because we find that in the Old, and New Testament, as hath been above said, as many, and as heinous corruptions to have been in such Assemblies, as from which no separation was ever taught or practised.  
Secondly, Though we did grant that (upon warrant of some places, that they bring) there might lawfully (upon due regard of some circumstances) a separation be made even from our Assemblies, yet do we affirm, that for as much as they have failed in sundry of those circumstances, that therefore their separation, is utterly unjustifiable, for whereas they could not with any just warrant to their consciences, separate themselves from us, till they bade found us obstinate in our corruptions, and temptuous scorners of all good means used for reforming us, (as is evident by the example of such separations as are commended in the Word) 
(d) Acts 13.45.46. and 19.8, 9  we affirm that they have departed from us before they could (with any charity or good conscience) be so persuaded of us. And this we doubt not to prove to their own consciences, and to all that know them well, by these reasons following.  
First, they separated themselves from us before that either by writing or any competent means, they had sound convicted us, or manifested unto our judgement the dangerous errors we held, wherein they have manifestly transgressed the rule of the word: 
(a) Act. 19.3.9. 2 Tim. 4.2. T●●. 1.10, 11. and 3.10.  we grant indeed the truth and necessity of the government of Christ prescribed in the word, which hath been sufficiently manifested to the Church, and that our Church hath been sufficiently convinced of many gross corruptions; but that for the want of some parts of discipline, our Church should be no Church, or that for the corruptions amongst us, our Ministers should be no true Ministers, or our people no faithful people (which are the very fundamental principles of their Schism, and almost the very matter of difference betwixt them and us.) In these points we deny that either to this day they have sufficiently convinced us, or that before the first time of their separation) they had in any measure used means to convince us.  
Secondly, after they had convicted us in Judgement, they should have (by brotherly admonition and exhortation, sought to persuade us unto the love and practise of the truth revealed, and to the hatred and forsaking of the manifested corruptions 
(b) 2 Thes. 3.14.15. Tit. 3.10. Heb. 10.15.  which is evident they did not before their separation.  
Thirdly, the Scripture forbiddeth the Church to eject a private member, till in all patience and long suffering, his repentance hath been waited for, and the fruit of the aforesaid means expected 
(c) 2 Thes. 3.14.15. 2 Tim. 2.24, 25 and 2 Tim. 4.2.  which evidently reproveth their hasty and sudden departure from us, either before, or suddenly after they had used the means abovesaid, especially seeing that in all reason more longsufferance should be used by such private members as they were toward a whole Church, than by a whole Church towards private members.  
Fourthly, whereas they should have used all the means abovesaid in meekness, humility and love, mourning also for the hardness of our hearts, whereby the means became frustrate unto us. 
d Ephes. 4.15. 2 Tim. 2.25. Tit. 3.2. Heb. 10.24.25.  It is evident that their zeal in dealing against us, hath been like the rash and undiscreet zeal spoken of, and reproved in the sons of Zebedeus. 
e Mar. 3.5. Luke 9.55.  And hath favoured altogether of uncharitableness and not of love: for as all they that once have declined to that Schism, are found to be exceedingly proud and disdainful to wards all that are contrary minded; yea even such as (before they were infected with that leaven) were patterns of all love, modesty and humility unto others; so will they not acknowledge nor reverence any of the most excellent graces that God hath given unto any of his servants amongst us, nor so much respect them, as the very Papists will do; no they profess greater detestation and despite to the most godly and most sincere men amongst us, than they do to such as are most notorious in profaneness, and malice to the truth. To which purpose also we desire that the spirit whereby Henry Barrow was directed in writing his last books may be well examined.  
Fiftly, whereas by the equity of the rule which our Saviour himself giveth, and according to the practice of the Apostolic Church, we should have had our corruptions made known to some other Reformed Churches, and by them we should have been convinced and admonished before these our brethren could rightly judge us as heathens and publicans, we affirm that they (as if the Word of God had come out from them, or had come unto them only) have by their disorderly separation, not only despised and rob us of our right; but all other christian Churches in the world besides.  
Sixtly, they have not so much as protested the cause of their separation from us to the particular Congregations, whereof before their departure they were accounted by others, and did also acknowledge themselves to be members.  
Seaventhly, those of them which once exercised the places of the Ministry amongst us, and received for the same the reward due which they call Balaams wages, have not before, or since their departure, made actual restitution of that which was (if their opinions be true) most unjustly received, nor yet shown themselves willing so to do, to their ability which norwithhstanding by the law of God they are most strictly bound to do.  
The scond Article in their conclusion is this, That the Assemblies which they go and join themselves unto, are such as the Word of God commandeth them to go unto: whereunto we give this answer. That if they had followed the direction of God's Word when they had left us for our coruptions and wants as they charge us with, they should have joined themselves to some other Reformed Churches which are pure from our corruptions, and amongst whom the discipline of Christ is rightly established: as we find the faithful Levites and people did in the days of jiroboam and every wise hearted Christian, will hold it to be a reason of great force against them that they have made separation, not from us only; but from all other Reformed Churches in the world: For there by they appear to have been of this judgement, that till they arose, there was not a true constituted visible Church in the whole world known unto them: unto which they might have joined themselves.  
Secondly, the Assemblies which they erected, and joined themselves unto, if they be looked into with a Christian and indifferent eye, shall well appear to be much more deformed than many of those are, which they have forsaken, for proof whereof, we desire the Readers, to weigh well with the weights of the Sanctuary, and to try by the touchstone of the Word certain points of doctrine, which they have both brewed, and broached to the world in their printed Books. Then secondly their practice and dispositions. All their Paradoxes, and absurd opinions, we will not set down, but in some few, we will give the Readers a taste of the rest.  
In the 138. page of their discovery they affirm, That such an Idolatrous shape cleaveth to every stone of our Material Charches, as by no means can be severed from them, while there is a stone left standing upon a stone, so that neither they can be used to the worship of God, nor we have any use of them, seeing that they are execrable, and devoted to destruction. In the 167. page of the same book they teach: That to every Christian God hath given his boly sanctifying spirit, to open unto them, and to l●ade them in to all truth. Much like unto this, is that which they wright in the 161. page of their refutation: That it is an execrable position, to say that the Church, and every member thereof is in some spiritual bondage to sin.  
Touching the Magistrate's authority, besides that by the whole tenor of their writings, it appeareth, that they hold the people may take in hand the public Reformation of the Church, and erect the whole discipline not only without, but contrary to the Christian Magistrates liking and consent; they do also directly affirm, page 218 and 219. of their discovery: That God hath in the holy Scripture made most perfect, and necessary Laws, both for the Church, and Commonwealth, and that he requireth of the King, and Magistrase, to see their Laws executed, and not to make new.  
Neither do they judge ever a whit more dutifully of the Churches of God, for of them they use to speak, as if their had been no true Church in the world, till they sprung up. Nor were at this time any right constituted Church Assembly in the world, but their own: for in the Epistie to the Reader which they prefixed before their discovery and in the first page thereof, they have these words. The whole land (I say not the whole World) hath lain so long, and is so deep set in the defection, etc. And in the second page: Although the truth hath long lain hid, and buried, and be now impugned of all men. But why should we wonder that they judge so erroneously of men, seeing the sacred Worship of God, they hold, that it may receive pollution from men that deal in it, for in the 30. page of their discovery, They teach that the open sin of the Minister, defileth the Sacrament, and Prayer, administered by them. Yea in the 34. page they go somewhat further, and say: That the known, and suffered sin of any one member, is coniagious to all such as communicate with him, in that estate, and make th' them all as guilty in God's sight, as he himself is.  
Touching the Articles of our faith, which by all the godly, in all ages have been called the Apostles creed; Thus they speak, in the 76. page of their discovery: Their forged patchry, commonly called the Apostls' Creed. The Article of Christ's descending into Hell what sense soever it be taken in, they call in the 48. page of their refutation; That Blasphemous Article of our Faith. Besides these gross absurdities they hold against other points of wholesome doctrine, let the Reader guess at the judgement they have in the manner of Church government (wherein they would appear to be better seen, than all the godly learned in the world besides) by these few things. which we will offer to his consideration. First, whereas they have in their writings, disclaimed the discipline which we desire, and other reformed Churches have received, they have never yet clearly set down, what discipline it is which themselves stand so much for. In the 27. page of their discovery, when they have scoffed at the discipline we seek, they offer words to this effect. That without the power, and practise of the diligent watch of every member, but chief of the Rulers, and Elders, the Word of God is made as Idol, the Sacrament sacrilege unto us, and all things we do, odious and abominable to the Lord: Whereby it appeareth, they are of opinion, that there can be no true Religion there, where either, there is no Eldership established, or where the Elders fail in the execution of their office, or where any one private member of the Church shall fail in doing the Office of a Watchman, and censurer to the rest, much like to this, is that which they writ in the 37. page of their refutation, Hath the greater Minister in the Church, any more power to retain, and lose the sin of the least member, than the same member, hath to bind, or lose his sin. In the 119. page of their discovery, speaking of the Church government. which hath been sought for amongst us, and received by other reformed Churches, they have these words. The thing itself they corrupt, in that they add new devises of their own, as their Pastoral suspensi 〈◊〉 from their Sacraments, their set continued Sy●eds, their select classes of Ministers, their settled supreme Council, whereby they have well expressed what they mean, in the 29. and 249. pages of their refutation when they affirm, that the Church hath no power, to make any Loves of indifferent things. And page 193. of their discovery; That the people, without any Minister, may give ordination, and full calling into the ministry.  
Secondly, As their judgement is erroneous, so is the practice of their discipline in their Assemblies most disorderly; For, first none can gather Churches from Infidelity, nor may go about it, but only such as are appointed to it, by our Saviour Christ, and he hath appointed none for that work but Ministers, which also themselves in the fourth page of the preface, prefixed to the refutation, do confess, we would gladly know by what ministry, their Assemblies were first gathered; by what presbytery were the Ministers, that first gathered their Assemblies examined, and ordained with imposition of hands: Secondly, when the first were gathered, what foundation had they to ground their faith, and doctrine upon (especially in these point of controversy) when they neither had any other translation of the Scripture then that which they received from us, whom they judged no better than Heretics, and Infidels, nor any one among them, who by the knowledge in the tongues, was able to examine our translation, by the original Scriptures.  
Thirdly, How great a disorder it is, that in their Assemblies, private persons are allowed to interpret the Scriptures publicly; and that they hold faith may even ordinarily be wrought by privatemen. Where God hath separated, and sanctified a special sort of men, to any office, and the administration thereunto belonging; there he hath restrained others, that are not of that sort, from, ordinary doing of the actions properly belonging unto that office, as may appear by many Testimonies, and examples; Now it is evidant that in the Old, and in the New Testament, the Lord did separate the Priests, and Levites, Apostles, Prophets, Evangelifts, Pastors, and Teachers, to the public Administration of the Word, and Prayer of the Sacrifices, and Sacraments of the Church, how then shall any other presumo to meddle there with?  
The Priests and Levites, who had ever by inheritance, some right to all the services of the Tabernacle might not lawfully exercise the meanest service, till they were specially called, and consecrated thereunto, 
a Exod. 28. & 29. Levit. 8.34.  how much less then, might any other deal in the public service of God without a public calling thereunto? We are not ignorant that they are wont to allege many testimonies of Scripture, to warrant this disorder by, but alas they do it very ignorantly; For many of them whose examples they cite, were by special calling separated to the Office of preaching.  
The seventy Disciples are said to have been sent by CHRIST, 
b Luke 10.  Paul and Barnabas, when they preached at Antioch, of Pisidia, 
c Acts 13.  were not only lawful Ministers, but (for aught that can appear by this place to the contrary) they were so reputed also by the Ruler of the Synagogue, to whom their public, and famous preaching in so many Assemblies before, with the approbation of the Jews, could not be unknown; The faithful men that the Apostles writes of to Timothy, 
d 2 Tim. 2.2.  who should teach others also, were such only, as should be both instructed by Timothy, and receive authority from him to do it. Of some other mentioned in their quotations, it is very probable, that they were not private men, but had a special calling to the Office of preaching. The Disciples, that being scattered through persecutions went about preaching, may very well be thought to have been Ministers, rather than private men, unless we shall imagine there were no Ministers in jernfalem before the Church was scattered, but the Apostles only, and Philip who is also called an Evangelist, is the only man of name amongst all these scattered Disciples, that preached; The Prophets mentioned in the 1 Cor. 14. is very likely, were either such as whose extraordinary gifts did suficientlie prove to the Church, that they were extraordinari●e stirred up, and called of God, or else such as being separated to the work of the ministry, were by that exercise of their gifts to be fitted to the full execution of that office, as those children of the Prophets were, for the like purpose trained up in these Schools of the Prophets mentioned in the Old Testament.  
And as they cannot conclude out of these places, that those Prophets were mere private men, so shall they not f●●tle the name of a Prophet given in any place of holy Scripture to a mere private man.  
The preaching mentioned, Luke 8.39. the expounding of the way of God, Acts 18 26. the exhorting spoken of, 1 Thes. 5.11. was not Eccle●iasticall, or Church preaching but only private, and do mesticall instruction.  
Some other places which they allege, 
a Phil. 2.15, 16 Peter 3.12.  concern neither public preaching, nor private instruction, but only the constant profession of the truth, and holy conversation which God requireth of every Christian.  
thirdly the gross disorders that are to be found in their Assembly we have mentioned, to which the strange cho●se of their Ministers may be added: For by what Testimonic of holy Scripture can they warrant the admitting or choosing in to the ministry, such a one, as within some six, or eight weeks before was tramplanted from so Antichristian a Church and ministry as they reckon ours to be. As not only Master Francis Johnson, but sundry other of their Ministers have been. Sure we are that herein they have done directly contrary to the rule of the holy Apostle, and for smaller faults than this they are ready to say against us in the 127. page of their refutation, That he that hath not a true and right calling unto his Office, is no true Minister; but an Usurper, an Intruder, a Thief, a Murderer, etc. But what shall we need to reckon up any more of the disorders that may be noted in their Church government, seeing it is not possible but that those Assemblies should be full of confusion and disorder, where no Church censure can pass without the consent of every private man, and wherein every member is made equal in power and authority with the Ministers and Elders of the Church. These things being so, what is there to be seen amongst them, whereby so many simple Christians are deceived and moved to forsake us, and join to them? Save only that show of sincerity and zeal, and holy conversation wherein they are thought to go far beyond any of us.  
Concerning which we say, that although the conversation of many of our people and Ministers also be very scandalous, and the lives of the best of us, far short of that perfection we daily strive unto: Yet it shall well appear to him that will rightly consider these few lines following, That the power of true godliness is much more wanting amongst them then 'tis with us, whom they have forsaken; for it we may judge of the scholars by their teachers and of the miserable seduced multitude by their chief Leaders, and if men do not use to speak, much less to write: but from the abundance of their hearts, then have they as small cause certainly to boast of their holiness, & to say they are not as other men, nor as we are, whom they have forsaken, as the Pharisee in the Gospel said: 
(b) Luke 18 9.11.14.  This we dare boldly say, that there was never any man of note in our Church, that in his writings hath bewrayed so irreligious and unsanctified a spirit, as their chief Leaders have done: For proof whereof we desire the Christian Reader to consider first the shameful lies which wittingly, and against the light of their own hearts, they have published, and whereby they have in a manner borne false witness against us. In the ninth page of their Discovery they say, That all the Atheists, Papists, and Anabaptists, and Heretics of all sorts, Whores, Thiefs, Witches, Conjurers, and who not, that dwelleth in this Island, or is within the Queen's dominions, are received and nourished within the bosom of this Church, with the Word and Sacraments; none are refused, none kept out. In the 60. page of their Discovery they say, These Priests and people retain the levitical Decimations in the same form, to the same end. In the 63. and 64. pages they affirm, That the service book is the very ground work of our Faith, Church, and Ministry, from whence we fetch all our directions for all things, That we are sworn to, and by this book. That the Word of God may not be taught, but where this bath been read. In the 28. page, They say we all adore the words of Salutation which the Angel Gabriel used to the Virgin Mary, That we worship either the Purification, or the person of our Lady: So they maliciously say we torme the blessed Virgin) And that we pour out unto her our drink Offerings, and burn incense to the Queen of heaven; Whereas, through divers pages they charge us with keeping Fasts and Feasts to honour of Saints. In the 100 page they say, Their Priest Baptiseth the child, In the Name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the holy Ghost, and of the holy Cross. In the 148. page, They say, it is utterly denied in the Church of England, that the Magistrate should be Excommunicated. In the 183. page, They say, that it is impossible to find two of ou● Ministers in one mind and judgement, yea, in any two Churches of the Land, to have the same doctrine taught. In the 188. page they say, That no one place of Scripture which maketh express mention of the government of Christ, As Rom. 12.1. Cor. 12. and 15. and is suffered to be so much as read in our Churches. In the 175. page they say, These new Glasses take upon them to make Ministirs.  
A second note whereby we may try the spirits of their chief Leaders, is their spiteful railing, wherein they are so rich and plentiful, as we know not how to find amongst all the rabble of profane and ungodly men, any one that goeth beyond them in it, our Ministers they call Balamites, Canaanites, Babylonish Divines, Egyptian Enckanters, limbs of the Devil, as bitter enemies as Turkish janissaries, marked soldiers of the Beast, such as know not the Doctrines of the beginning of Christ, such as were nuzzled even from the mother's breast in profane Heathenism, vain. Philosophy, ungodly Arts, trained up in Idolatry, Superstition, and most filthy Abomination, Perjury, Blasphemy, etc.  
These men by preciseness and outward show of Holiness, Hypocrisy, Vainglory and Covetousness, resemble, or rather exceed the Pharisees. And the 38. page of their Discovery, Such a Priest as this is a Blazing star, a Paragon of a Country, one of the new found Martin Saints, and such People are Puritans, or Martinists, Preficians, etc.  
And in the 193. page, they name the Ministers of Geneva and their Church's Classes, (I dare not say the secret Classes in England) do make Ministers for us in England. And these Ministers when they are come over, are received and esteemed as Angels in hell, and shine as bright stars in this smoky Egyptian furnaces. And in the 12. page of their Collection of Letters, speaking of two very worthy Preachers, they have these words. I suppose more corrupt Teachers then these cannot be found is any age, they teaching nothing almost truly, much less sincerely.  
To this we may refer the unreverent and malicious speech, against the most godly learned, that have lived in the Reformed Churches beyond the Seas, as in the 23. page of their Discovery, they call us the crooked Disciples of Master Calvin. And in the 18. page Master Calvin hath no doubt unsufferably perverted and wrested these and other places of Scripture, and drawn very foul and corrupt doctrines thence, touching the state and order of a planted Church, and more dangerous and damnable conclusions from the same. And in the 33. page. This and such like detestable stuff hath Master Calvin in his ignorance, partly to confute the Anabaptists, partly to defend his own rash and disorderly proceed of Geveva, whereby this their Church became a just reproach to all men, yea, that which is worse, and more to be lamented, it became a miserable precedent and pernicious example to all Europe.  
The last note which we will observe for the trial of their spirit, is their scurrilous and ruffanlike profaneness, wherein they seem to us to have expelled all that in a show of zeal and sincerity, have written or dealt in the holy things of God. In the 52. page of their Discovery, speaking of Ordination they have these words. He solemnly sitteth in his chair, and layeth his simoniacal hands upon him, delivereth the Bible into his hands, breatheth upon him, and giveth, or rather selleth him his unholy Ghost, as he shall know by the price of his box. In the 73. page having spoken against red stinted prayers, and being come to speak against the prayers which godly Preachers do conceive, according to the present occasions of the Church. Thus they scoff at them; Other more smooth Hypocrites, yet as gross Idolaters, use the Lords Prayer as a close or supply (forsooth) to their long Prelix Prayers conceived before. In the 86. page of their refutation. He most sacrilegiously selleth them his pretended Sacrament for their second shot or offering. In the 97. and 98. page of their Discovery, speaking of our public Fasts; thus they writ. Here the learned Priests and Preachers lay their heads together, choose out three or sour, from among them to preach: some of them must play Sin, another the Judgements of God, the third Repentance, the fourth, the Gospel, the people are solemnly bidden from all quarters to this Stage Play: who as the first invention of it flocked in thick and threefold to behold this novelty: He that playeth Sin amongst some other faults, will reprove such as do not diligently enough countenance the preaching Priests (I should say) frequent not their Sermons; for the want of the Dise pline, all that mourn in the chine, and sigh in secres for it, (though neither Priest nor people know what it meaneth, yet) they must now fast and then the fault is not in them, but in God Almighty, that they have it not. If you come now to the second Table, they are severe men, they will make Conscience to tremble, If there be ever an Usurer, or a Drunkard, or an Whoremaster, they will so backbite him, that he will not love a Sermon a good while again. These men must bear with them, if in the Pulpit, when they are ravished with the zeal of the Lord, they have now and then a gird at them, to ease their s●o makes, especially now for fashion sake.  
And in the 99 page when the P. P. have ended, then are the people dismissed (where I trow for that night, is no talk either by the way as they go home, or at their supper. but how excellently such a man, and such a man did.) The Priest themselves that took this pains, are bestowed at some good hosts, or some good Dan●es Houses where at night they recompense their fasting and mourning with good cheer, and case; And in the 180. page. They had a presoript place, like a Tub, called their Pulpit, and the Preacher for the most part disputes to the Hourglass, which being run his Sermpcin action must be at an end. And a little after, here would not be fergotten, the sweet Palmodicall harmony of the Vultures, Crows, Gleades, Owls, Geefe, of the Leopards, Bears, Wolves, Dogs, Foxes, Swine, Goats: All these with one accord, Sympathy, and Harmony, sing some pleasant ballad, or else unto David's Melodious Harp some Psalm in time, to stir up the spirits of their worthy Priest, or Preacher, who being thus wrupt and ravished with this Harmony, goes to his Gear in form above said, where his mouth distils, and his lips drop down old Parables, etc. And in the 191. p. Master Parson takes to him his Pastoral staff, or wooden dagger of superstition, where with he keeps such a flourishing as the fly can have no rest, yea by your leave if any poor man in the parish offends him, he may peradventure go without his Bread and Wine for that day: and in the 192. page, speaking of the Bishops, and dumb Ministers: Indeed their Cake is Doughty, it this gear, this sweeping new Reformation come in; In the 128. page, speaking of Churching of women they have these words, she having offered her accustomed offering, to him for his labour; God speed her well, she is a woman on foot again. And in the 244. page of their refutation, they call our prescript prayers; The smoke of the bottomless pit.  
But what need we any further evidence or demonstration of their spirit; Sure we are that by this which is already set down, it will well appear to the wise and Christian Reader, that God's Spirit never taught men to write as those men (who are known to have been the chief persuaders and seducers of these our deceived brethren) have done.  
To conclude, if we did grant that the Assemblies which these men have gathered and joined themselves unto, were not equal only, but much better reform than ours, yet by joining to them with disclaiming, and condemning utterly all other reformed Churches in the world, we see not why they may not thereby be said to divide Christ; As well as they of Corinth, should have done if they joined unto, and followed Paul, so as withal they forsaked, and despised Apollo's, or Cephas.   
FINIS.