A Short conference between a Scrupling Presbyterian, and a Puritan concerning maintenance for the Gospel Ministry wherein Dialogue-wise is lovingly argued; Whether Tithes, or any other stinted proportion of men's Estates, may now under the Gospel be required by the Ministers, or paid by the People, by virtue of any express Warrant, or good consequence from Scripture.  
with a Letter to the Assembly of Divines  
james Sempil's Sacrilege sacredly handled.  
p. 2. c. 8. §. 4.  
The positive Law of Princes is not the fundamental ground (as many think) tying Tithes to the Church: for at first, Tithes were either Moral or Ceremonial. If Moral, than all Kings are but Hezekiah's commanding to pay them according to the Law. But if Ceremonial, than it is no less Superstition now to restore them: than it was sacrilege then to refuse them. For nothing that typed Christ as Ceremonal, may be revived after Christ in his Church.  

Rebuffas de Decimis  Decimae erant ante Legem, sub consilio; In Lege sub praecepto; Post Legem in libertate Spiritus. 〈◊〉. Sam. 2. v. 8. 12. 
Now the Sons of Eli were Sons of Belial, they knew not the Lord.  
ver. 13. And the Priests custom with the people was, that when any man offered Sacrifice, the Priest's servant came while the flesh was seething, with a flesh hook of three teeth in his hand.  ver. 14. 
And he struck into the Pan, or Kettle, or Cauldron, or Pot; all that the fleshhook brought up, the Priest took for himself: So they did in Shiloh, unto all the Israelites that came thither.  ver. 15. 
Also before they burned the fat, the Priest's servant came, and said to the man that Sacrificed, give flesh to roast for the Priest, for he will not have sodden flesh of thee, but raw.  ver. 16. 
And if any man said unto him, let them not fail to burn the fat persently, and then take as much as thy soul desireth: Then he would answer him, nay, but thou shalt give it me now, and if not, I will take it by force.  ver. 17. 
Wherefore the sin of the young men was very great before the Lord: for men abhorred the offering of the Lord.   
May 2d. London. 1646.   

A Short Conference, between a Puritan and Presbyterian Strupling about the the maintenance of Gospel-Ministers.  Presbyterian. 
WHether are not the Ministers of the Gospel to live by the Gospel?  Puritan. 
Yes doubtless, for we are forbid to mussle the very Ox that tre●deth out t●e corn, and Gods taking care for Oxen, is to teach us that he takes fare ●r●●ter care for his true Ministers of the Gospel. 1. Cor. 9 9 10.  Preby●e●●a●. 
Whether may not the Gospel Ministers require the same Tithes for their Gospel maintenance, which were due unto the levitical Prieist▪ hood for their service adout the Tabernacle?  Pur. 
No, for 'tis plainly s●id that there was no perfection by the levitical Priest▪ hood, under which the People received the levitical law, and that the Levitical Priesthood being changed, there was made a necessity of changing the Levitical law, Heb. 7. 11. 12. 19 even the whole levitical law, whereof Tithes were a part, an Article, a Cannon.  Presb. 
But may not the State allot or set, out a maintenance for the Gospel Priest hood or Ministry, under some other proportion or denomination, as of one eight, or fifteenth of men's estates, to be given them for their labour & traveil in the Gospel. without so much as ever naming the word Tithes, amongst us? might not this be done lawfully and without scruple?  Pur. 
No, because the proportioning and imposing upon the people such a maintenance, for the Gospel Ministers, must be either by some express warrant from God, which never was as yet, nor, can ever be produced, or in imitation of the levitical Law, which would encroach too much on judaism, and in part revive the O●d Law which is abolished, Heb, 7. 12. or else must needs arise from a double presumption, of Idolatries as it is pretended to relate unto God's worship, and tyranny as it intrenches upon the Subjects propriety and liberty, if it be without their consent.  Presb. 
But since the Lord hath ordained that such as preach the Gospel should live by the Gospel. 1. Cor. 9 14. If the Parishioners will not give the Preacher maintenance, is there not a necessity for him to take it, wbether the Parishioners will or no? Christ says the Minister must live by his Preaching, the people will not pay him for his Preaching, and I find no third way to make good that Scripture, unless he force it from them for his livelihood.  Pur. 
'tis true, how Christ appointed that such as preach the Gospel should live by the Gospel, upon the effects and fruits of the Gospel, hospitality, alms, deeds, community of necessaries, when the Christians have wherewithal, not upon plundering and stealing; But if the people had no means for themselves, or would not part from it unto their Ministers, then, their living by the Gospel, will be to work with their hands in some honest caling as Paul did, unless wec will infet that Paul and his Disciples, did not live by the Gospel, because he chose to work with his own hands and advised others to do the same, rather than their Ministry should be thought chargeable to any, Act. 20. 33. 34. 35. 1. Thess. 2. 9 & 4. 11. 12. They are then to live by the Gospel, on what Gods providence shall provide them under the Gospel, whether it come in by free maintenance from their Parishioners, or by labouring with their own hands.  Presb. 
But was there no command nor precedent for compelling the People of God to Pay Tithes unto the Levites, nor to give maintenance unto the Gospel Ministers?  Pur. 
I find no command nor Precedent, neither in the Old, nor New Testament, for such compulsion.  Presb. 
What may be the reason why God would not grant a compulsive power for levyeing, neither the levitical nor Gospel maintenance?  Pur. 
There are many reasons for it, both in respect of the people, and in respect of the Ministers; First in respect of the People; though God set out the portion, the Tithes which the Levits, were to have, and expressly insinuates, that temporal things ought to be given unto such as administer spiritual, yet he would have it be given as a free gift, a matter of bounty, not grudgingly, 2. Cor. 9 5. which is inconsistent with a coercive way of levying it; Secondly in respect of the Ministers, it is expressly required concerning them, that they be not soon angry, no strikers, 1. Tit. 1. 7. they must not strive, but be gentle unto all men 2. Tim. 2, 24. They were, as near as possible, to resemble Christ their Master, who was not to strive, nor to be heard cry in the streets, a bruised reed he would not break, and smoking flax he would not quench, until he sent forth Jugment unto victory, Matt. 12. 19 He had no civil jurisdiction, He said his Kingdom was n●t of this world, john. 18 36. He would not divide the Inheritance between the two Brethren, Luke. 12. 13. 14. muchless would he play the divider▪ the carver for himself, and all this is likewise inconsistent with the Ministers using by themselves, or so much as countenancing in the civil Magistrate any compulsive means in or about their maintenace, or any thing else which immediately concerns he Gospel of Peace.  Prsb. 
But is it not to be feared, that if the People be not compell●● to give maintenance unto the Ministers, that in many Parishes the Pre●chers would not have wherewithal to live upon, but must be constray 〈◊〉 to neglect their studye●, and labour all the week long for relief of themselves and families with food and raiment, whereby they would li●●●y become much unprepared, if not totally disabled, to Preach unto their Parishioners on Sundays, in such a case as this, were it net better to compel maintenance for a Preaching Ministry, then that there should be no Ministry, no preaching at all?  Pur. 
No doubtless, for since we have no warrant for levying suc● kind of maintenance, it can not be of faith▪ whatsoever is not faith is sin, R●● 14. 23 and we may not sin, we may not do evil that good may come thereof, Rom. 6. 1: Besides, it is absolutely sinful to make such asupposition, to suppose that a true and painful Ministry should, or can want maintenance since it cannot be without an absolute distrust of God, ●ho● ha● promised to be their portion and inheritance, Num. 18. 20. Deut. 10. 9 a●d since Paul said that it was better for him to die, then that h●e should be prevented in his boasting of not making the Gospel chargeable, 2. Cor. 9 15. 18. 23. even so ought every conscientious Minister to w●rk●●ith his own hands, and rather starve then go to law, or compel his Parishioners to give him maintenance, whether they will or no●; and for the impertinent and over officious c●re, which some seem ●o have of upholding Gods Ministers, by such indirect courses, they out … the Constable; I● is God's work to send and furnish us with Ministers, and their duty to require maintenance after such a manner only, ●s they are warranted in Christ's Commission, which bids them give freely as they have received freely, Matt. 10. 8. and that when they were in ●ny place, they should eat and drink whatsoever was set before them, Luke. 1●. 7. 8.  Presb. 
But is there no third way, no means of indifferency betwixt taking Tithes really or equivocally, which as you insinuate, will oblige us no l●sse than Paul says of Circumsition, to the keeping of the whole Law, Gal. 5 3 4▪ that never made any one perfect, Heb. 7. 11. 1●. Is there▪ I say, no medium between such a levitical kind of maintenance, if you will have it so, and becoming mere almes-men, to li●e upon the People's charity?  Pur. 
No doubtless; for as there is no third way of Government prescribed the people of God, between, or besides the Old and new Law, or Testament, so is it impossible there should be sound any other warrantable means of raising maintenance unto the Ministers of either Testament, than what God has therein prescribed them, which under the old Law, was a stinted Proportion even the Tyther, whether the encreas were more or less, for the Livi●ecall Preist-hood; But for the Gospel's Ministry, nothing besides the charity and free bounty of the people, which yet through faith became a larger portion then that of Tithes, whilst the believers at some time and place; had not only all things in common, Ast. 2. 44. but such as had land● and houses, sold all they had, and laid the whole price thereof at the Apostles feet, Act. 4. 34. 35.  Presb. 
Tell me then dear Brother in Christ, how a conscientious Minister ought to demean himself in his great extremity, one who hither to has l●ved on Tithe, which you call robbery & plunder, and has not as yet faith enough to renounce them, without a distrust that both himself and family will be reduced to beggary?  Pur. 
Dear Brothe●: If you be truly conscientious, and thoroughly convinced, you would quickly see as our Saviour saith, how disadvantageous 'ttwere to you, to gain the whole world and lose your own soul, Matt. 16. 26. I will therefore deal clearly with you, as in the presence of God, the most exquisite Accountant, and severest judge, to all such as with Ananias and Sapphira presume to lie unto the Holy Ghost, Ast. 5. The Law, ordained such asstole to restore five for one, Exod. 22. 1. Zacheus according thereunto, when he was converted, restored fourfold, for whatsoever he had taken from any body upon false accusation, Luke, 19 8. and with out restitution (to such as have wherewithal) all Casuists presume there can be no true repentance, and consequently deny absolution: If you be able therefore you must make restitution of all that you have extorted from your Parishioners, under pretence of maintenance, at lest unto such as will not freely remit the debt unto you, and for the ●n●ur, endeavour to get faith in God's Ordinances, without which it is impossible to please him, Heb. 11. 6. and as the Apostle Iam●s says, you must not, nay I may say you can not somuch as think too receive any thing of him without it, james 1. 7. But on the contrary, (if you will believe the Scripture) If you have faith but as a grain of mustered seed. you might remove Mountains, Matt 17. 20. and receive of God whatsoever you shall ask, & 21. 22. Trust in him who has promised to be your portion, do what God commands, and leave the success unto his Providence, say with job, that you will trust in God, though he should suffer you to starve, job 13. 15. Rely upon the maintenance that he has provided for you, through the free gift of the Brethren, 2. Cor. 9 5. which to many of the Independent way, as you may observe, proves more beneficial than Tithes, and if it should fail you (which yet it cannot except through your own want of faith) you have notwithstanding your hands as well as your neighbours, to get a living by, and take this for a parting Word, that it may leave deeper impression; God who  the Lil●y●s of the field, which neither take care nor work, more gloriously than Solomon in all his greatness, Math, 6. 28. 29. and feeds the young ravens which cannot help themselves, any other wise then by crying unto him, job 38. 41. Psal. 147. 9 will not let thee only his Gospel Minister, with whom he hath made a better Covenant, and upon better Promises then with all the world besides, Heb 8 6. be put to shifts for maintenance, if thou bel●ivest, if thou reliest upon him; and hadst thou been born a Potentate, or bred up to the most gainsomest calling, in thine own imagination, without this anchor of faith, thou must needs have miscarried, and come to begga●ry, God bring it home unto thy heart, and move thee being once converted to endeavour the convertting so many of thy misled Brethren.  

To the Divines assembled at Westminster.  
TH●s short dialogue about the Minister's maintenance coming to my h●nd, I thought good to dedicate it unto yourselves, whom it most concerns, But be cause it is argued with much mildness and sweetness of Spirit, a thing in itself much commendable, I am some what fearful it will not awaken your ●ul frozen-heart●dnes, nor pierce deep enough into the putrid depth of your unfathomable covetousness: Bear with me then, if for your good, I give you mine own opinion of the matter in these following lines, with a little more tartness of expression in some few passages thereof.  
I conceive, we are bound by the unrepealable Law of Christian charity, and the necessity of preserving hum in society, even mankind itself, by doing as we would be done unto, Matt. 7. 12. to relieve the necessities of the S●●●ts, of our Brethrens, and mankind in general, to the parting with our whole estates, save somuch only as our own necessity's require at present: For though charity begin at home, yet it must be so regulated that under p●●ten●e thereof, we do● not so lay up in store against a dear year, or pamper ourselves for the time, whilst others die through our uncharitableness, of penury and hunger. In which respect, we may take up this unerring rule, that if any bodies instant necessities be greater than our own, we are indispensibly cal●'d upon to administer unto them of what we have: Oh the fearful account and condemnation, which attends all sorts of people for failing in this way of Stewardship, but principally the covetous of the Clergy, or covetous Clergy rather, the very mass of them being plunged and drowned herein, as appeareth by their compelling men of all ranks, estates, & conditions whatsoever, to the payment of their jewish Tithes? Do people of any caling in the world except pretended Ministers, which were never rightly called, constrain their Brothren to buy their merchandise, & that at what price the owners please, beside these merchandizing Clergy men? Or can any people but themselves in all the Land escape the heavy hand of Justice, if they should force monies from others, under pretence of payment for sophisticated wares, which they never did or would receive? Oh let such a suppositious Tribe of Levy, or truer offspring of Simon Magus hear and tremble at what the Spouse says unto the Churches: Ho every one that thirsteth come ye to the waters, and he that hath no money, come ye buy and eat, yea, come buy wine and milk without money & without Price: Wherefore do you spend your money for that which is not bread? & your labour for that Which satisfieth not; What say you now, is Christ or Antichrist your Lord and Master? which of them is it which you follow in denying both the spiritual and real bread, milk or Wine of the Gospel, to such as will not be like yourselves, guilty simony in purchasing them at your sacralegious monopolising prices? who have you for a Precedent of constraining not only your own, such as to you are within, but even those which are without contrary to Paul's rule, to spend their money with such profane exchangers, deserving to be turned out by the Church, for that which is not bread? to make poor people which labour all the weck long to fill their bells, disburse the price of blood, of life unto you, for that which satisfieth not, which they approve not of? Holy David did not only refuse it even in extremity, but the very murdering Iews made conscience thereof, though they had to deal with ludas the worst of miscreants. Paul did not only set up, shop where ever he came (oh profane) labouring with his own hands, with whom Silvanus & Timothy did the like, as appears by comparing the two last Scriptures with 1. Thess. 1. 1. & 2. Thess. 1. 1. as also did Tytus; but Paul required the Pastor's Elders of settled congregations to do the same, giving them reason for it as well as precept, and such a powerful one as might prevail not only with Christians but with Infidels, saying, 'tis more blessed to give then to receive; professing withal, that he kept back nothing that was profitable for them, ver. 20. and that he had declared unto them the whole counsel of God ver. 27.  
Answer for yourselves the, you mercenary Merchants of your pretended heavenly manna; who have you t●is commission from? how can you give us infallible assurance, that God discovered to you more of his counsel then he did to Paul? or why must a State or People damn themselves for your bas● ends, to ●al● Paul's truth in question, and not believe him when he tells the Pastors of Mi●etus, and in them all true Ministers and Pastors successively, that it was Gods absolute will they should labour with their hands supplying such as wanted, as you have seen in that second of Acts a fore cited?  
Fie, fie for shame, remember that they which will be rich fall into many temptations, the love of money is the root of all evil, but godliness with contentment is great gain: Begin at last, to think repentace necessary, and if you will not with Zacheus make restitution of all the Tithes you have unjustly taken; at least disclaim them for the future and sin no more: Trust in the Almighties providence, and your own hands for maintenance, wait upon his Ordinances; Christian charity will grow into a community of all things, rather than true believers shall want wherewithal to live upon; God will teach Ravens to administer unto you, if but Eliah-lyke you be obedient to his commands: if you be not more idle than the ravens, which neither sow nor reap, which neither have storehouse nor barn●, and ●●t God feeds them when they cry: If you be not less promoters of God's honour then Lilies, which neither toil nor spin, and yet are more glorious than Solomon in his best array, how much more would be have care of you, O ye of little faith? fly then to God at last, now that you are discovered, at lest make avertue of necessity, trust in God & not in Tithes; Such as heretofore adored ●ou, their eyes be now open & take notice of your gross i●postur●; they have no longer patience to see you live like drones, to tyrannize over their consciences, to be your own carvers of all they have, nor will be longer accessary thereto by fattening you like Swine against the day of Slaughter.    
FINIS.