THese groans for Liberty, out of Smectymnuus his own mouth, I approve to be printed. John BACHILER. Febr. 27. 1645. If any are ignorant who this Smectymnuus is, Stephen Martial Edmund Calamy Thomas Young Matthew Newcomen William Spurstow can tell you. Groans FOR LIBERTY. PRESENTED From the Presbyterian (formerly nonconforming) Brethren, reputed the ablest and most learned among them, in some Treatises called Smectymnuus, to the high and honourable Court of Parliament in the year 1641, by reason of the Prelates Tyranny. Now awakened and presented to themselves in the behalf of their now nonconforming Brethren. WITH A BEAM of LIGHT, discovering a way to peace. ALSO SOME QVAERES For the better understanding of Mr Edward's last Book called GANGRAENA. With a PARALLEL between the PRELACY and PRESBYTERY. By John SALTMARSH Preacher of the Gospel. Mat. 18. 32, 33. I forgave thee all that debt because thou desiredst me; Shouldst not thou also have had compassion on thy fellow servant, even as I had pity on thee? London, Printed for Giles Calvert, at the black spread-Eagle at the West end of Paul's, 1646. TO THE honourable THE KNIGHTS, CITIZENS, and BURGESSES of the House of COMMONS IN PARLIAMENT. Honourable, I Here present you with some Notions of the Brethren of the Presbyterian Way, which were presented to your HOUSE some four or five years since; wherein they do in much strength and piety, as it seems to me, open the way and secrets of spiritual Tyranny, and Conscience-yoaks; there is some occasion now of reminding the Brethren of these, because the strain of their preaching and printing seems to have forgotten these principles: spiritual yokes and Burdens being taken off from us (through the hand of God upon ye) the memory of them seems to be gone off too from some; some have forgotten that they were strangers in the Land of Egypt; the Lord hath seemed to forgive the formerly Nonconforming Brethren all their debt, because they desired him: And now the Question is, Whether they should have compassion on their fellow servants as he had pity on them? The Controversy now before ye, is of all your faithful ones, and therefore it calls for the tenderest judgement: fathers may better beat servants than children out of doors; the one sort (if I mistake not) contend that they may rule with ye, the other, that they may be ruled by ye in the things of your own Kingdom; and in that of the Kingdom of God, that Jesus Christ may rule both ye and them: how just, how spiritual, this latter plea is, will appear from the choicest Reasonings of some in reputation with ye, which I have awakened. The things I present ye, I would not presume to make too positive, because I would not conclude a wisdom of your latitude under any notion of mine, (though I see private men take too much liberty in that way towards ye) though it is your indulgence not to know it. I here present ye things only to be considered, to be quared, in the behalf of truth and the advancement of your State, to which I am covenanted; and I am the bolder and freer, having sold something that I had for that pearl, for which we are bidden to sell all: I shall add some Considerations here to the rest. 1 Consider whether under Popery the mystery of the national Priesthood was not rather held up by the power of Princes and States▪ than States themselves by such a way of power; and whether the mystery of the national ministry be not rather held up by the power of States now, than the States themselves in such a way of power; and then, whether all the Pretences and Consequences to draw in States and kingdoms for the church's interest (if clearly discussed) be not rather a way of Antichristian mystery, then of zeal to Religion or the power of Magistracy? 2 Consider whether in the Kingdom of Jesus Christ any other sceptre should be lifted up then that golden one of his own, and whether if there be a kingdom of God, if Jesus Christ be the lawgiver, and the spirit of Christ the Interpreter of those laws, and this kingdom of God within the throne of that King of Kings, and Lord of Lords the Lord Jesus, any other power should rule, any other sceptre, any other laws, or any other sit down in that Throne, which is only the Throne of the Son of David, whose Throne is for ever, the sceptre of whose kingdom is an everlasting sceptre? 3 Consider whether there be not an Heathenish or Gentilish world, and an Antichristian world or a world of many called Christians and Believers in Christ, and yet a Church of Christ which is neither of these; and if so, whether is all this kingdom of England that Church of Christ, or not rather much of it that part of the Antichristian world, over which one part of the mystery of iniquity hath sat long, and is yet upon it? and if so, then is there not room in England both for presbyterial Churches, and Believers of other ways to live in that part of this kingdom which is the world, and not that Church? and if so, ye may be rich in people, rich in peace, rich in the praises of the people of God. Honourable, go on to do worthy things for our Nation, as worthy things have been done by you, and may ye be as the wings of a dove covered with silver, and her feathers with yellow gold. So prays Your humble faithful Servant JOHN SALTMARSH. To the Reverend Divines of the presbyterial way. Brethren, THese are the sighings of some of your own spirits under Episcopacy, under the Tyranny of that government. O how acute and sensible were your judgements and Consciences then of the usurpation, dominion, imposed forms, when you were the sufferers! but now that your Brethren are become the Non-conformists to you, as you were Nonconformists to the Prelates; and you the imposers, and your Brethren the sufferers; I find times and conditions are forgotten, and yokes are called for which neither we nor our fathers were able to bear. I see by your printings and preachings the working of new dispositions in you, and symptoms of something like Dominion and Persecution; surely Brethren your crying out thus for the civil power to help you or all is undone, is a sign you trust not to the Gospel strength, nor truth of your way, but to the arm of flesh. Methinks of late your Sun is turning into darkness and blackness over us, and your Moon into blood: is it possible that yokes, burdens, whips, prisons, banishments, can be so soon forgotten? Can Saints like natural men see their faces in a glass, and so soon forget what manner of men they were? I have here reasoned with you in your own arguments; I hope your own arguments may find access to your spirits when ours cannot; men are sooner persuaded by their own reason then another's. O that the same sounding of bowels may be heard in you to your Brethren, that ye wished to hear in others who were once your taskmasters! What Joseph said in his affliction, we shall say to you, Think on us I pray you when it shall be well with you, and show kindness; for it may be as Mordecai said, ye are come to the Kingdom for such a time as this; if not, enlargement and deliverance shall arise from another place. John SALTMARSH. Groans FOR LIBERTY. 1 Divisions ought to be no prejudice to the Truth. But he upbraids us with our Divisions and Subdivisions, See the Ministers Book called Smectymnuus, presented to the Parliament, sect. 18. printed 1641. and so do the Papists upbraid the Protestants with their Lutheranism, Calvinism, and Zwinglianism; and this is that the Heathens objected to the Christians, their fractures were so many they knew not which Religion to choose if they should turn Christians. And can it be expected, that the Church in any age should be free from Divisions, when the times of the Apostles were not free, and the Apostle tells us it must needs be that there be Divisions? In Greg. Nazian. his days there were six hundred errors in the Church; do these any ways derogate from the Truth and worth of Christian Religion? Quaere. 1 Whether are not Divisions and Subdivisions objected now to all that are dissenting Brethren from the present way of Church-government? and whether are Divisions any more scandal to Religion now then before? 2 Whether is Independency, Anabaptism, Brownism, Seekers, of more evil report now, than Lutheranism, Calvinism, Zuinglianism formerly? 3 Whether is an hundred and eighty opinions, as some would reckon them, Mr Edwards. more to be cast in the face of Religion now, then six hundred in the days of Nazianzen? 4 Whether is this fair dealing for Brethren to make Apologies for divisions and several opinions, when they are oppressed, and to turn back in accusations upon their Brethren when the oppression is off from themselves? 2 Stinted forms not to be imposed▪ The validity of which plea your Honours are best able to judge; See the same Smect. sect. 2. and therefore we leave it at your bar: yet these two things we know, first that this form viz. of Liturgy, was never established to be so punctually observed, so rigorously pressed to the casting out of all that scruple it, or any thing in it. Quaere. 1. If former Liturgies were never established to be so punctually observed, why is there such pressing now for establishment of forms, now to be observed in Worship and Discipline? seeing the former Divines walked as they thought by as true a light then, as the Divines of this age do now? 2. If Synods did not formerly establish things for such punctual observations, why are there any penalties, fines, imprisonments called for now, upon nonconformity to things established by them? 3. Why are the forms composed now so rigorously pressed, Uniformity so urged, when such practices and designs were condemned but a few years since? and they who urge it now, would scarce then seem to believe it to be the mind of former Synods and Parliaments? 4. If things were not to be rigorously pressed then to the casting out of any that scruple, why now? 3 No forms of particular men to be imposed on all the rest. But if by Liturgy he understand prescribed and stinted forms of administration, See Smect. sect. 2. composed by some particular men in the Church, and imposed upon all the rest (as this we must understand, or else all he saith is nothing;) we desire and expect that those forms which he saith are yet extant and ready to be produced, might once appear. Quaere. 1. If forms composed by particular men be not to be imposed on all the rest, why do the Brethren now urge upon us all, and upon all the kingdom, their own Uniformity and forms, since theirs is no more a Truth to others, than others forms were formerly a Truth to them? 2. Whether one Synod of Divines is not as well a few 1 A some. , compared with all the rest of the Kingdom, as another Synod? and the same that were but a few 2 Or some six years since, or sixty years since, but a few 3 Or some▪ still, unless the same numbers and accounts alter by years and seasons? and if so, what reason is there for one's imposing more than another's, since Truth is no more to be reckoned by multitudes and Synods in one age, then in another? 4 No binding to the use of Composed forms. All other Reformed Churches, though they use Liturgies, See Smect. Quaere 2. yet do not bind Ministers to the use of them. Quaere. 1. Why do any Reformed Churches now undertake to bind any to the use of their forms, seeing the Churches formerly durst not usurp it? and why under penalties now more than before? 2. Whether is that lawful now which was not four years since, and for these Brethren to do, which was unlawful for their Predecessors? 5 Severe imposing, a sin and a snare. That which makes many refuse to be present at our Church service, See the same Quaere 2. is not only the Liturgy itself, but the imposing it upon Ministers. Quaere. 1 If imposing of Forms was a snare before, how comes it to be none now? 2 If Ministers were not to be compelled then, why are they to be compelled now? 6 Liberty in use of forms breeds no disturbance. Obj. If it be objected that this will breed divisions and disturbances in the Churches, See the same Quaere. unless there be a uniformity. Ans. It hath not bred any disturbance in other Reformed Churches. Why should the free liberty of using or not using breed more confusion, than the free liberty of reading or not reading Homilies, especially when Ministers shall teach people not to condemn one another in things indifferent. Quaere. 1 How comes it to pass that liberty in the use of forms bred no disturbances before, and yet now all is pretended to be undone if uniformity be not preserved? 2 Why are Divines more jealous of conscientious and inoffensive liberty now that the Government is coming into their own hands, than when it was in their predecessors? 3 If Brethren are not to condemn one another in things indifferent, why do they teach now a Persecution to all that conform not to things indifferent only, but unlawful, as all parts in Worship and Government are, which are Devices of men? 7 No set forms for the first 300 years. For Christian Liturgies which the Remonstrant had affirmed to have been the best improvement of the peace and happiness of the Evangelical Church ever since the Apostles times, Smect. sect. 2. we challenged the Remonstrant, setting aside those that are confessedly spurious, to produce any Liturgy that was the issue of the first 300 years. Quaere. 1. If solemn and set-forms and Directories were excepted against, and accused then as no friend to the peace and happiness of Churches, why are they made now the choicest means of peace and unity, and all those Churches condemned as erroneous that are without them? 2. If no set-forms can be produced as the issue of the first 300 years, why are they continued still * Viz. in the worship now. , which have neither precept from Scriptures, nor precedent from Apostles or Primitive practice to warrant them? why are the crimes and will-worship of forefathers condemned by their children, yet afterwards taken up? the father's eat sour grapes, and the children's teeth are set on edge. 8. Things that even offend Anabaptists are to be removed. It is under careful hands and hearts more merciful, viz. See Smect. sect. 2. the Parliament, than this Remonstrant is, (to remit troubled consciences to no better cure than Mr. fisher's book) who we hope will do by those as the Helvetians did by some things that were stumbled at amongst them, though there were none but Anabaptists that stumbled at them, yet the State did by Authority remove them, and Zuinglius their professed adversary gives them thanks for occasioning the removal. Quaere. 1. Why may not the Brethren look for better cure to their troubled consciences from the State now, then from some of their brethren, because the hands and hearts of the State have appeared more careful, more merciful than some of them? the Priests and Levites walk by, while the good Samaritans comfort the wounded 2. If the State of the Helvetians would not offend the very Anabaptists, but remove the scandal: why should any State now be set on and inflamed not only to offend, but persecute them; nor only Anabaptists as they are called, but all other their Brethren that dissent? If States are commended then for being so tender, why are they preached now into severity, wrath, revenge, and tender troubled consciences made the only trouble? 9 Rigour makes Separatists. But we think, nay we know that some few Prelates by their overrigorous pressing have made more Separatists than all the Preachers disaffected to Ceremonies in England. See Smect. sect. 2. Quaere 1. If it hath appeared formerly that rigorous imposings have occasioned Separation, why do they now cry out of so many Separatists, and not look up to themselves? Why do they beat their fellow-servants out of doors, and then cry out of their running away? 2. Why is not persecution and imposing more forborn by the Brethren now, when they have found it the cause of their own Separation formerly? 3. Why do they cry out of Separatists, when they see Separatists have not so much made themselves so, as they have been made so by others, and they have been rather driven away, than they have drawn away themselves? why do they cry out of of Separation, when they force them into corners first, if they would have the communion of their Brethren more, why make they not their persecution less, and their offences in worship and government less? 10. Burdens to Churches to be removed. In the mean we bless God who hath put into the hearts of others into whose hands he hath concredited the work to judge more wisely, See Smect. sect. 2. and consider more mercifully, and to profess in the hearing of some of us, they would willingly part with that which was indifferent to themselves, if they were but truly informed it was offensive to others, according to that of Gregory, those customs which are known to bring any burdens upon the Churches, it becomes us to consider of the removing of them. Quaere. Why may not the State to be petitioned by their people now of tender Consciences, to the same temper of tendernesle and mercy to them, that the Brethren than desired for themselves? whether are those good neighbours, that would have it rain only in their own Gardens, and the Sun to shine only on their own blossoms, and have peace only in their own dwellings, and their neighbour towns running with blood? 2. Were the times of non-conformists than times only for removing burdens from Churches, and the times of non-conformists now times of burdening Churches? 11 men's devices ought not to hinder preaching. This is just as our Bishops were wont to do, who give a full power to a Presbyter at his Ordination to preach the Gospel with a charge to do it, See Smect sect. 7, 8. yet will not suffer him to preach no not in his own cure without a licence. Quaere. 1. When any than was gifted and called to preach the Gospel, and Licences were complained on to hinder, why are there any other ways devised against the liberty of the Gospel now? as uniformity &c. 2. Were Licenses chains and fetters to the glorious and free spirit? and are Interrogatories and Questions at times of Ordination and admission about antipaedobaptism, Antinomianism now no restraints nor devices to the same purpose, is this to rejoice that Christ is preached howsoever, nay is not this to forbid him because he follows not with us? 12. Men's inventions to set up jus Divinum to advance government. They that have studied to advance the Babel of Episcopacy, See Smect. sect. 13. have endeavoured to underpin it with some Texts of Scripture, that they might plead a jus divinum for it. Quaere 1 Was it unlawful, and politic in some to underpinne Episcopacy with some Texts of Scriptures, and so to get up a jus divinum for it? and is it not as unlawful to set up another Form that is not purely of God, underpinned with Texts of Scripture for a jus divinum or divine right, as some would have had it? 13 Oath ex Officio an unlawful engine. We desire to see further how abominable this Oath is, how cried down by learned men, Sect. 11. how contrary to the word of God, the law of nature, to the civil and Canon laws, and to the Statutes of our kingdom, he may find in Mr▪ Parker. Quaere Was it so contrary to the word of God, to all civil and Common laws, and the Law of our own Kingdom, to extort from men Conscience secrets; then of what kind are all forms of posing, examining, interrogating to find out the opinions of those who are to preach in any Congregation? 14 When Presbyters grow as tyrannous as Bishops, they are to suffer. But if the Presbyters should be as generally corrupted as Bishops now are, The same Smect. sect. 16. have as much strength to suppress the Gospel and promote Popery, as the Bishops by their supreme power have, and if they can bring no more evidence of divine institution than Bishops can, and are of no more necessity to the Church than Bishops are, let the Function suffer. Quaere May not that very thing be more justly feared and presumed by us now, from some late experiments of them, viz. that the Presbyters may grow strong to suppress the gospel, and tyrannous &c. and may be corrupted, as Bishops formerly, as well as they might prophesy this of themselves? Caiaphas' thought as little of Christ when he said, one should die for the people, as some Presbyters thought of suppressing the gospel themselves, and suffering for it, when they wrote thus against Bishops and Presbyters. 15 Change of words in Religion an ill sign. We find that the late Innovators which have so much disturbed the peace and purity of our Church, Smect. in Quaere about Episc. did first begin with alteration of words; and the Apostle exhorts us to hold fast the form of sound words, 2 Tim. 1. 13. and to avoid profane novelties of words. Quaere If the change of words be so dangerous, and unwholesome forms, and so condemned before, why are unwarrantable words taken up again, as classical, provincial, national, Triers, Directories, which are no more forms of wholesome, nor Scripture words? 16 Reproaches no Arguments. If confident slightings and scornful denials be sufficient answers to us and our arguments, See Smect. Ep●st. never any man hath better defended Episcopacy, or more strongly confuted those that oppose it. Quaere. If confident sleightings, &c. were counted no sufficient answers from the Prelates to the Presbyters, why are Presbyters sleightings counted so sufficient arguments for their Dissenting Brethren now? and if to rail be to reason, and to revile be to refute; Mr. Edwards and some of his brethren have as strongly confuted us, as the Prelates did formerly them. 17. Prelates impropriate Orthodox▪ In impropriating to the same party the praise of Orthodox, See Smect. Epist. as if to speak a word or think a thought against them were no less heresy, than it was in former times to speak against the Pope's Supremacy or the Monks fat belly. Quaere. 1. If it were so ill taken by the Presbyters then, that the Prelates impropriated the name Orthodox: how may it be taken now by all the rest who are cast out as heretics and schismatics, while they walk abroad clothed only in the name of Orthodox Divines? 2. If the Pope's Supremacy and the Monks fat belly, and the Prelates could not bear a word nor a thought against them; are not some Divines working for a supremacy and a revenue, against which it may prove as great a crime to speak. 18. All not of their opinion are factious. Sure the man thinks he hath obtained a Monopoly of Learning, Smect. sect. 3. and all Knowledge is locked up in his bosom, and not only knowledge but Piety and peaceableness too; for all that are not of his opinion must suffer▪ either as weak or factious if he may be their judge. Quaere. 1. Whether do not they who hold all other in schism and heresy and a company of mechanics who conform not to them, conceive they have the Monopoly of learning as once the Prelates did: and who are these now? 2. Whether do not they who look on their Brethren that dissent as Troublers, Factious, schismatical; conceive all Piety and peaceableness to be locked up in their own bosoms; and who are they? and who are the weak and factious if they may be judges? 19 Prelates paths causes of divisions. It is no wonder, considering the paths our Prelates have trod, See Sect. 28. that there are divisions in the Nation; the wonder is the Divisions are no more, no greater. Quaere. If the usurpation, Tyranny, Persecution of the Prelates, were reckoned for the supreme division-makers in the kingdom, when the Non-conformists were the only Separatists; Why do they not find out some other, or such like cause now, in some other place, rather than amongst their dissenting Brethren themselves, whom they now only accuse of division, and faction? but this is the difference of being Parties and Judges; we naturally spy out faults furthest from ourselves. 20 Where is the Church of England? We desire him to tell us what the Church of England is, Sect. the {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman}. for it doth not please him that we should call the Convocation the Church of England, much less the Bishops or Archbishops. Quaere. If it was so hard to find out the Church of England in the Prelates days, surely it is hard to find it out now; than it seems neither Synod, Bishops, nor Archbishops were the Church. Then Quaere, where is the Church now? not in the Assembly, they are but consulting how to build the Church; not in the Presbytery, for that is a Church unbuilt yet; not among the Parishes, they are not Scripture Churches or Congregations as the same Smectymnus says; then where is the Church of England? 21 The name of Church is the Gorgon's Head. But these episcopal men deal as the Papists that dazzle the eyes, Smect. sect. 17. and astonish the senses of poor people with the glorious name of the Church, the Church, the holy mother the Church; this is the Gorgon's Head that hath enchanted them and held them in bondage to their errors; all there speech is of the Church, the Church; no mention of the Scriptures of God the Father, but all of the mother the Church. Quaere. 1. If the name of Church then, the Mother Church, the Church was such a Gorgon's head by which Prelates as well as Papists enchanted thousands of People to believe: why is that very thing or device taken up in another form to enchant with still, viz. The Church of England, the Orthodox Churches, the Reformed Churches? 2. If the Mother Church was so much spoken on before, and the Scriptures so little? why is not the Church of England, the Reformed Churches, the Orthodox Churches and Divines less spoken on, and the Scriptures more? 22 An ill custom to say Church of England and Conformity. It hath been the custom of late times to cry up the holy mother the Church of England, Sect. the same. to call for absolute obedience to holy Church, full conformity to the orders of holy Church, neglecting in mean time God the Father and the holy Scriptures. Quaere. If it hath been the unwarrantable custom of late times to cry up the Church of England, and absolute obedience to the Church, and conformity, why is this custom still kept up? conformity, obedience and uniformity as much called for still, as before? why is not the word more spoken on, and the Reformed Church less? why is not free Christian liberty, peaceable forbearance of each others differing opinions, and practices in unity more heard among us, and obedience, conformity and uniformity less? 23 To call schismatics and heretics the Bishop's Practice. Only there is one practice of our Bishops, Sect. the same that is their casting out unconforming brethren commonly known in their Court language by the name of schismatics and heretics. Quaere. 1. If the Bishops did practise the casting out the nonconforming Brethren, whither ought any such practice to be taken up by the nonconforming Brethren against Brethren now not Conforming to them? 2. If all the nonconforming Brethren were in their Courtlanguage heretics and schismatics, whither ought not such names to be sent packing to Court again, rather than taken up by the same Brethren, who were so much called so themselves, heretics and schismatics that they have taken it up against others? 24 Heresies and schism harsh words. But we had hoped the refusal of the use of a Ceremony, See Sect. the same. should never have been equalised in the punishment either to heresy or schism. Quaere. If you hoped that the refusal of a Ceremony would not have been punished with heresy and schism from Bishops, may not your Brethren hope much more from you, that their dissenting from you in things of outward Cognizance and form, as Church Order and baptism, would not be so branded for heresy and schism by you (who glory in a more Gospel way) as you were branded yourselves of late? 25 heavy censures for nonconformity. I am sure above the crime of the Remonstrant, See Smect. sect. 13. nonconforming Brethren, who are unsettled in points of a mean difference (which there usual language knows by no better term than Schimaticks and factious) yet even such as have fallen under the heaviest censures of Excommunication, deprivation, suspension, &c. Quaere. 1. Why was it such a crime to count any schismatics and factious, under Prelacy? and why is it now under Presbytery matter of just report against others? 2. If Excommunications, Deprivations, suspensions, &c. were esteemed so burdensome and cruel? then why are Fines, Penalties, and Imprisonments, so much preached for now? why do not the Brethren of the presbyterial way, think it as hard for the Magistrates to afflict their Brethren, as they thought it hard in the Prelates to afflict themselves? 26 No Presbyters to be Ambitious. Neither in any of his writings the least intimation of superiority of one Presbyter over another, Sect. the same. save only where he names Diotrephes as one ambitiously affecting such Supremacy. Quaere. If none but such as Diotrephes is observed in Scripture for affecting Supremacy, and Superioricy, and if one Presbyter cannot be found affecting place above other Presbyters in opposition to Bishops; then how is it cleared, that a Presbytery may be supreme to a whole Church or Congregation: and that it is not as much Superiority for some few Presbyters to affect being above many Saints together in one Church, as for one in name or office as a Bishop to affect place above another in name or office as a Presbyter, and so Episcopacy be as warrantable as Presbytery, and both alike unwarrantable? A BEAM of LIGHT TO Discover a way to the peace both of CHURCH and STATE By way of Considerations. Consid. 1. LEt it first be considered where the great obstructions lie against Liberty or Teleration of Brethren of several ways, and if it may not be found to be in these things, 1 A taking the whole kingdom of England for the Church of England, and so setting up the national Magistracy of Israel in the Nation now as it was then, which how it may be warranted, would be well considered. 2 A jealousy how to preserve the present ecclesiastical Interest without the choicest power of the Magistrate to help it; which if well observed, makes it appear to be less of God, and more of man. 3 An interpretation of these gospel Scriptures which concern Magistracy, Rom. 13. 4. 1 Tim. 2. 2. 1 Pet. 2. 13, 14. (which I humbly conceive to be so far as concerns any good or evil either of the Law of Nature or Nations) into a good or evil purely spiritual, and of mere revelation in the Gospel, as things of gospel light, and mystery, and notions of Heresy and Schism are: this latitude of Interpretation of the general Rules in the gospel concerning Magistracy, into all particulars of Truth and heresy, is of high consideration. Consid. 2. Let it be considered, how the kingdom of England may be called the Church, taking in all the Northern parts, the Western parts, the whole Nation generally to the very walls of London, with Mr Marshal's Testimony, that many thousands nay thousands of thousands (which accordingly reckoned takes Mr Marshal's serm. Novemb. 17 1640. up almost the greatest part of the Kingdom) not knowing their right hand from their left in the very principles of the doctrine of Christ. And saith Mr Martial, no Land can be esteemed Christ's kingdom where the preaching of the word is not established: is any country esteemed a part of a Prince's dominion that is not ruled by his laws? Consid. 3. Let it be considered then seeing the kingdom of England is not a Church, but in the general a Nation baptised into they know not what at first, and believing generally they knew not in whom ever since, as Mr Martial, whether there may not be a free, peaceable cohabitation of the people together, viz. of those called presbyterial, Independent, Anabaptists, enjoying their several ways of practice in things of outward cognizance and order, as Baptism, Church Order, &c. in all peaceable demeanour and godliness, as well in this spiritual variety, as so many Corporations, Counties, Divisions, Armies, and several Companies, in that their civil variety, and yet in all a civil comeliness, peace, and unity. Consid. 4. Let it be considered, whether the civil power in such a gospel mystery, as Presbytery is, and the way of Baptism is, and the way of Independency is, may not with more lawfulness, less hazard of sin, and safety, keep off, or suspend his engagements from all sides, seeing there lies gospel strength and Arguments on all sides, and walk only according to those general Rules the gospel hath laid him down in Rom. 13. 4. 1 Tim. 2. 2. 1 Pet. 2. 13, 14 not daring to draw himself to revenge any misbelief of particular Scripture mysteries; forcing either side, either for Presbytery, ind, endency, or Baptism, which the gospel hath nowhere warranted him in special, or in any clear consequence to do; but such as the present prevailing Brethren draw out from the judicial Law of Moses to help: and from these general gospel Rules, which can bring forth but an opinionative justice, as their Arguments an opinionative Truth, or Presbytery; and whether the Magistrate ought not to demand a more clear and equitable Rule in things of spiritual cognizance, I humbly present to be considered. Whether there ought not to be a certain Rule for a certain justice: so if there should ever be a proceeding to Fines, Imprisonment, Banishment, the Divines can administer no more certain grounds for the Magistrates conscience, than such as they have for their own, which are but probable, controvertible, doubtful, as the Arguments on all sides will make appear. Consid. 5. Let it be considered, whether it hath not been one of the national sins, viz. Making laws against all other Forms but what it did establish itself Nationally; by which experience hath told us, how gospel Truths have been kept out whole Generations; Popish States kept out Protestantism, and Prelacy kept out Presbytery, and whether Presbytery proceeding on the same ground, is not in the same danger of sin, and of keeping out other truths; and whether upon this ground, any gospel Revelation or Light (of which there shall be an increasing every day, M●. Case Sermon God's waiting, p. 62. as Mr Case himself preached,) ever shall come into this Nation, but of the national size and temper; and we know that is not often the gospel way; the Lord hath chosen the weak things, and base things. 6. Consideration. Let it be considered whether part of the great Mystery of Iniquity be not that of drawing in the strength of the Nations, Rev. 17. 12, 13. the Princes of the earth, to support the ecclesiastical or Church glory, and let this be sadly considered; did not Popery get in the Kingdoms of the world to support itself? ●id not Prelacy stand by the same power? Doth not Presbytery hold itself by the same strength of Magistrates? Are not the same Iron rods and scourges of steel conveyed over from one of them to the other? Did not the Pope whip the Protestant with fines, imprisonments, and the Prelate take the rod our of his hand and whip the Nonconformist, and the Nonconformist or Presbyter take the same rod out of the Prelates hand and scourge those that are Non-conformists to him? Consid. 7. Let it be well considered, whether the design of the national ministry, ever since the first working of it upon the Magi●●rates, hath not a design for strengthening their own interest by the Magistracy of the kingdoms, and how have kingdoms been embroiled for the serving of this design, and whether is not this guilded with the glorious name of Reformation. Consid. 8. Let it be considered from the several ways and forms of proceeding in which the believers of several opinions have gone in these times to support themselves, which stands most on a pure Gospel spiritual bottom, supported by its own innate congenial and proper strength, clasping about no stones no pillars of the world, or human strength. Consid. 9 Let it be considered, whether the whole cry of the Divines of the other party (as in the late book) is not all to the Magistrate: Mr. Edw: his Gangrena. Help us Parliament, help us City or we are undone, the Heresies and Sects will undo us; What said Ezra, I was ashamed (saith he) to require of the King an army and horsemen to help us against the enemy in the way, Ezra 8. 22. because we had said the hand of our God is upon all them that seek him. Consid. 10. Let it be considered whether they whom he calls heretics and schismatics, make it one of their choicest Principles to desire the Magistrate to help their opinions with their prisons, fines, pillories; but rather that they would let them alone to stand and fall by the power or weakness of their gospel principles, and that they may have liberty to pray for them, pay to them, and possess the gospel. Each Opinion stated briefly, respectively to Toleration. Let it be considered to what each pretended heresy will amount to. Independency. INdependents believe that since the Parishes are so generally corrupted, the Churches ought to consist of those of them only that profess more purely, as they find Scripture Rule and Practice; and as the Presbyteriant themselves many of them practice in some Ordinances, as that of Baptisme●nd the Supper, giving them only to the purest believers. They also believe that they ought not by a few Ministers and Elders of the Churches to bring all the Churches and Congregations under their power and dominion, but rather under their advice and consultation. Quaere. Because then they practice to meet more purely, and to rule less one over another; whether is this enough that they should be fined, imprisoned, banished? The Anabaptiss. THe Anabaptiss so called, they hold that believers ought only to be baptised, and that baptism ought to be so for the manner, as may set forth Christ's death, burial, and resurrection by water, as the Greek word and Apostles practice seems to imply, Mr. Perkins Aquinas sum. and some of the ablest Divines both of England and the great Adversaries the Papists themselves deny not; and for children, they read of none the Apostles baptised, and they see not any Scripture clear enough to warrant, and they therefore forbear. Quaere. Because they will not practise than what is not clear in command, and confessed by all to be but in hidden consequence; because they baptize as they find the clearest rule and practice, and as none can deny but it was the Apostles general practice to baptize Believers: therefore whither is this enough that they should be Fined, Imprisoned, Banished? The Seekers. SEekers, some of them Question only the way of Church and Ordinances, as of baptism, &c. because they find that the power was at first given to the Apostles with gifts, and from them to others, and they dare not take it from Antichrist and the Bishops, as the Reformed kingdoms generally take it, nor from the Churches, because they find no such power begun from the Churches, but only of choice or consent, not of power nor Churches begun before Apostles, or Disciples with gifts. Quaere. Whither then is this enough, because they conceive they dare not take Ordinances, but from such, and in such a manner as was given at first, to fine, Imprison, or Banish them? A model or Short Draught of the whole difference betwixt the Divines for the Presbytery and them of the other way respectively, to the Magistrate or State, drawn from the late Books and Practice of both parties, in a Petitionary way. They of the Presbytery to the Magistrates or State. WE humbly Petition ye, that heretics and schismatics (We believing all that differ from us to be so) may have your power inflicted upon them, whither to fines, imprisonment, or Banishment, and upon this condition, ye shall have what we can do, or preach, &c. The Independents to the Magistrates or State. We humbly Petition, that ye will not hazard nor endanger your civil power of the State to help our opinions against our Brethren, for we are not Infallible nor apostolical, we see but in part, and that ye will not punish any of our Brethren Presbyterials or others, for what they believe or differ from us in things of outward order in the Gospel, and that we may have leave to pray for ye, to pay tribute to ye, to fight for ye, and to worship the Lord among ourselves peaceably as we believe, and to punish us when we disturb ye by Tumults, or trouble your peace in our way of worshipping SOME QUAERES FOR The better understanding OF Mr Edward's last BOOK, Called in Latin Gangrena, But in English, a Book of Scandals, AGAINST The Honourable Houses of Parliament, the Army, the Saints and Churches of Christ, that differ from him. Quaere 1. Whether this be not a new way, and work of Providence, to bring forth some Gospel, light to the world by presenting some truth under the name and notion of errors and heresies, which can scarce obtain from the press and Pulpit any other way of appearing abroad: and if this be not to take the wise in their own craftiness, and to make Mr Cranford the Licenser, and Mr Edwards the Publisher of some such Truths, which the world had else never known so publicly, but under the form of heresy, and from their two pens, but under this disguise? 2. Whether that Story which Mr Edwards tells of Brasteed in Kent, where he says a woman preaches which is known to myself, and all in that place to be a mere untruth, be not a way to judge of most of his Stories, Letters, Relations? 3. Whether this late Book called Gangrena, where there are so many Letters writ to the Reverend Mr Edwards, to the Worthy Mr Edwards, to the Good Mr Edwards, to the Father Mr Edwards, to the Worthy, Reverend, good Mr Edwards, with divers other insinuations of his own worth, be not a way of seeking glory, and praise from men? 4. Whether so many letters as are in the Book called Grangrena, where there is not one name subscribed, may not be as well written from Mr Edward's, as to him: and whether the authors of those Letters whose name are suppressed, are not afraid to be questioned for their Relations, and therefore have either concealed their names themselves, or Mr Edward's for them? 5. Whether the great reasonings and conflicts, which Mr Edwards saith he had in his spirit in the writing of this book, and says were only carnal conflicts, were not rather conflicts with that spirit of God, which breathed on him more love and charity to his Brethren, than it seems he would receive at that time. 6. Whether his accusing the Parliament and Army, the one for tolerating as never Christian State or Magistrate were known to do; the other for Antinomianism, Independency, familism, seraphinism, &c. be not of high and dangerous insinuation to the people at such a juncture of time, and of desperate irritation to our Brethren of Scotland, and is against the Solemn League and Covenant, one great Article of it? 7. Whether this be a sufficient confutation of my Book called the smoke in the Temple, to call it a Book of errors, as he doth in Page 3. Epist. and in Page 180. where he saith only, this is an error, and that is an error, without the least particle of Reason or Scripture to prove it; where if mere accusations may pass for crimes, I wonder he made his book so large, and rather summed not all up into one grand affirmative, viz. This is all heresy, and so have spared the Reader much pains, and himself much paper? 8. Whether hath Mr Edwards dealt faithfully and ingenuously as became a Brother, pretending to so much clearness and integrity of spirit (and which makes me suspect him in the rest) viz. to charge me with positive errors (which my Book can witness to the world) I writ as exceptions to serve a design of Peace and reconciliation, and not as my opinions? 9 Whether the design which Mr Edwards pretends in setting forth his Book, viz. to make the blasphemies and errors of the times (as he calls them) to be detested, is not rather a far contrary design, viz. to spread poison, infect many souls who by this shall come to the knowledge of such things as they never heard before, having provided no Antidote, nor any Answer of Scripture or reason against them, but merely contradictions, and ill words; it was observed that some books set forth for the discovery of witchcraft, made many Witches; and so who knows how many heretics he may make by this his pretended design against them; sure either some of the heresies or diseases were so above his cure or remedy, or he had a counter design to make heretics or the wisdom of his design was turned into folly, making heretics by writing against them. Mr. Edward's designs AGAINST His Brethren that differ from him. Gangrena p. 164. Let us fill all Presses, and make all Pulpits ring, and so possess Parliament, City and whole kingdom against Sects. Quaere. Whether this be not according as the Priests and Elders did about Christ's, Resurrection, saying to the soldiers, say you they stole him away, and if any thing come to the governor's ear, we will persuade him, that is, let us cry out they are all heretics and schismatics, and we will persuade the governors that it is so. Mr. Edward's Book, p. 172. Let the Magistrate put out some Declarations declaring they shall be proceeded against as Vagrants and Rogues. Quaere. Whether is this wisdom like that from above which is first pure, then peaceable: whether these be such words as the Angel give who would not give the very devil himself ill language, but The Lord rebuke thee O Satan. Mr. Edward's Book, Epist, page 4. When I think of &c. how many powerful Sermons you have had preached before you about the Covenant against the Sects, the many Petitions, and yet how little is done &c. God accounts all those Errors, Heresies, let alone and suffered, to be the sins of those who have power. Quaere Whether is not this a representing to the world and a public insinuation that the Parliament are Sermon sleighters, Covenant breakers heretical, unjust, Petition. sleighters, and whether this ought not to have been rather represented by him in private papers, than thus to arraign them before the people, and to make themvile in the eyes of the world, who have exceeded all their Predecessors in being tender of the blood and sufferings of God's people, and giving the church's rest, for which they have prospered more in the field in victories for this their peace at home, than ever before. Mr. Edwards p. 2, Epist. to Gangrena. You have done worthily against Papists and Prelates, &c. but what have you done against other kind of growing evils, Heresies, Libertines, &c. Quere. Whether is not this to charge upon the Parliament, all those things which he so grossly aggravates to the world as Blasphemies, &c. and to bury all the Honour of the Good they have done, in the sepulchre of the evil which he saith they are now in doing. Mr Edwards Epist. Noble senators, be pleased to pardon the boldness I shall take, &c. not to impute it to my malignity, &c. I am one who out of choice, and of judgement, have embarked myself with you. Quere. Whether doth it not clearly appear by this apology and insinuation of his own worth and good affections, that he knew well to what a Crime and Transgression both against Parliament and Piety the Book he had writ would amount to, and therefore bespoke their just Indignation and Censure before hand, with this story of his good affections, and embarking himself for them. Whether did Mr Edward's consider the Parliaments Honour, Quality, Capacity, that durst entitle them to the Patronage of such immodest, ridiculous Stories and Tales, as he brings in his Gangraena? AN expostulation With Mr Edward's upon His Book called GANGRAENA. SIR, THE uncharitable expressions of your Book against those who see not by your Light, and write not by your Candles your binding up the Tares with the Wheat together, and the precious with the vile; your trampling upon your Brethren as the mire in the streets, have forced my Spirit into these few Queries: for zions sake I cannot hold my peace. The designs of your Book seem to be these; 1 A design of Provocation to the Magistrate against your Brethren. 2 Of Accusation, under the old Project of heretics and schismatics. 3 Of historical Recreation to the people, that they may make themselves sport with the believers that differ from ye, as the Philistines with Samson upon the Stage. Can your wounded Brethren make ye good music? Can their failings make ye more innocent? Or their sins make ye more spiritual? You would have all the believers that are not of your mind, banished &c. will you who pretend yourself to be a friend, be such an enemy to the State, as to cut off (like Nero the tyrant's wish) so many thousand of their faithful servants at a blow, in such a juncture of time when they need so many? Ought ye to work off so many choice ones from this Cause, till you have as many more of your way for their places, and till as many battles, years, experiments, prove them as gloriously faithful, as these are; is this fair dealing with the State? You have brought forth before Israel and the sun, many pretended sins and crimes of your Brethren: Suppose they should write by your copy, and bring forth the Assembly sins, the crimes of all those of your way, of all the Divines and others that you take in, and rake back into the ashes of their unregenerate condition, keep almanacs for the years and days of their failings, watch their haltings in all things they say or do, tell all the Stories of them they hear, what would the next generation think of their Book and yours? At this rate of writing they would not read one honest man of all their forefathers, yet this is your course and method. I have done for this time, and I hope all that are not enchanted with the Gorgon's head of heretics and schismatics and Church of England, (as your own Smectymnians say) will read and judge. I had said more to ye, had you printed us more Reason, and less Reviling, and something more than Stories and Winter Tales. And for our Licenser, whom you so rail at, he is so much a friend to all the world of believers, as to give them the Scripture liberty of proving and trying all things; and not to silence the press, as some would, and as the Prelates did silence the Pulpit. And now let any age, weighing all the differences (excepting the Blasphemies, &c.) and the nature of them, nakedly without aggravations, and fallacy of words, bring forth a Book printed in such Letters of Blood, as this Gangrena? bind up all the Oxford Aulicusses, the Montague's, the Pocklingtons', and see if this Gangrena do not exceed them all; this is Persecution and Prelacy sublimate. And yet for all this, I would not have the civil power drawn against you, (if we had all the Magistrates on our side) but rather that you may in the flowings of a more heavenly spirit, with your head of waters, and your eyes a fountain of tears, write against your own Book, and let the world see that Men in these times are not Infallible, as you all conclude, but may mistake their Brethren for Enemies, some Truths for errors, and Zeal for Persecution, as the very Jews did when they crucified Christ, as they thought, for Blasphemy; And some shall kill ye, saith Christ, and think they do God good service. A Parallel between the Prelacy and the Presbytery. Quaere. Whether if we should reply to Mr Edward's in his own words, and as Solomon saith, answer him according to his, &c. we might not compare things as followeth, and trace up their proceedings into the very mystery of Prelacy? 1. The Prelates were ordained Ministers by the Bishops. Quere. Whether may it not be said, the Divines that sit now are Ordained by the same power of Bishops to be Ministers, and so by that power ordain others? 2. The Prelates when they had made Canons, procured the power of the State to impose them upon all the kingdom. Quaere. Whether may it not said, the Divines now get the same power to what they decree, and accordingly impose them upon the Kingdom? 3. The Prelates composed one great Service-Book for direction to uniformity of worship, according as they had ordered under penalties, yet without the least word of Scripture to prove the truth of any thing in it. Quaere. Whether may it not be said, Divines have composed one great book accordingly now for the like uniformity, viz. the Directory to be observed under fines and penalties; and yet without the least word or title of Scripture to prove the truth of any thing in it? 4. The Prelates ordered that from that Book Prayers should be read to the people. Quaere. Whether may it not be said, the Divines now have not east the Prayers of the Spirit into such forms and Methods, that a little invention will make them as stinted currant and legible forms as before, and accordingly read in divers places? 5. The Prelates counted all that would not conform to them, schismatical and heretical. Quaere. Whether may it not be said, the Divines now count not all so that will not be uniform with them? 6. The Prelates forbade all to Preach and Print, that did not Preach and Print for their way of worship and Government. Quaere. Whether may it not be said, the Divines now would not have all hindered from Pulpit and press that will not be of way of Worship and Government with them? 7. The Prelates possessed themselves of the state's power and favour. Quere. Whether may it not be said, the Divines now wholly labour after the same interest, both in Parliament and other Counsels? 8. The Prelates had their Licensers to stop all that write against their power and pomp. Quaere. Whether may it not be said, the Divines now labour to engross the power of licensing only to themselves? 9 The Prelates had for part of their Government, Fines, Pillories, Whips, Imprisonment. Quaere. Whether may it not be said, the Divines now have those very things for part of theirs? 10. The Prelates had Parishes for their Churches, and tithes for their maintenance. Quere. Whether may it not be said the Divines now have the same Parishes now for Churches, the same Tithes for maintenance? 11. The Prelates called all other meetings but their Parish-meetings, Conventicles. Quere. Whether may it not be said the Divines now call the Churches and people that meet now together apart from them, Conventicles, as formerly. 12. The Prelates called the Nonconformists factious troublers of the State. Quere. Whether may it not be said the Divines now do accordingly call any that write or oppose their Presbytery, factious and statetroublers? 13. The Prelates ever accused their nonconforming Brethren to the King and council. Quere. Whether may it not be said the Divines now accordingly accuse their nonconforming Brethren to the Parliament and other counsels? 14. The Prelates had a design to send all their nonconforming brethren to strange kingdoms as New England. Quere. Whether may it not be said the Divines now endeavour to send their nonconforming Brethren to other places out of the kingdom? 15. The Prelates engrossed all the Preaching and preferring Divines to all places of honour and popularity in the Kingdom to themselves. Quere. Whether may it not be said the Divines now do accordingly prefer to all places of public trust, honour, and employment, as universities, Navy, Armies, Garrison-Towns, Counties, Cities, & c? 16. The Prelates would not suffer men whom they called laymen to speak of the Scriptures. Quere. Whether may it not be said the Divines now do forbid and contemn all laymen's gifts in the same manner? 17. The Prelates would not suffer any to go from the Parish Minister. Quere. Whether may it not be said the Divines now accordingly labour to have all keep to heir Parishes. 18. The Prelates called Truths which they received not, New Lights, errors. Quere. Whether may it not be said the Divines now accordingly call all things they receive not, New Lights, Whimsies, Errors. 19 The Prelates laboured to scandalize their nonconforming Brethren with nicknames, &c. Quere. Whether may it not be said the Divines now accordingly labour to make their nonconforming brethren vile and scandalous to the Kingdom? Ezek. 18. 2. Thus the fathers have eaten sour grapes, and the children's teeth are set on edge. Thus if we would compare crimes and times, we might write and speak. Quere. Whether Mr. Edwards in reckoning up divers things for Errors, hath not much aspersed his own Brethren Doctor Twisse, Mr. Gattaker and many others in many doctrinal points they hold? The Testimony of Mr. Samuel Ruthorford one of the Scotch Commissioners in the last Page of his Epistle to the Reader in his Book entitled, The Divine Right of Church Government and Excommunication. No encroaching on Christ's Prerogative, BUt it is a controversy (say some) whether the Government of the Church of the New Testament, belong to the Magistrate or to the Church? To which I say, 1. It was a controversy created by men willing to please Princes, with more power in the courts of Christ then ever the Lawgiver and Apostles gave them, and that against the mind of glorious Lights, the first Reformers, and the whole Troop of Protestant Divines who studied the controversy against the usurped Monarchy of the man of sin, more exactly than one Phy●●tian, who in a cursory way diverted off his Road of Medicine of which he wrote learnedly, and broke in on the by upon the deepest polemics of divinity, and reached a rider's blow unawares to his Friends. 2. In things doubtful conscience hath refuge to the surest side: Now it's granted by all, and not controverted by any, that in the Apostolic Church, the government of the Church of the New Testament was in the hands of Apostles, Pastors, Teachers; and therefore Conscience would sway to that in which there can be no Error, except on supposal of abuse; and Christian Rulers would not do well to venture upon Eternity, wrath, the judgement to come; confiding on the poor plea of an Erastian distinction, to encroach upon the Prerogative royal of Jesus Christ. FINIS.