SOME OBSERVATIONS AND ANNOTATIONS Upon the Apologetical Narration, Humbly submitted to the Honourable HOUSES of PARLIAMENT; The most Reverend and Learned DIVINES OF THE ASSEMBLY, And all the Protestant Churches here in this Island, and abroad.  
LONDON, Printed for Christopher Meredith, and are to be sold in Paul's Churchyard at the sign of the Crane. 1643.   

TO The Right Reverend, and Learned DIVINES, THE AUTHORS OF THE Apologetical Narration.  
Right Reverend and dear Brethren,  
THE high esteem I have ever had of your Persons, and the great holiness of your lives (desiring ever to be such myself, as I esteem you to be, except only in your particular opinions, wherein ye descent from all Protestant, yea, all Christian Churches in this World) had almost hindered me, from the publishing of these Considerations upon your Apologetical Narration; esteeming, That it was not for any particular man, such as I am, to oppose himself to such a number of grave Divines, of so great learning, and so apparent Piety: But on the other part, considering, that you, as myself, are but men, subject to humane frailty, that ye know but in part, and consequently may err in part, I thought, that this, which is in question betwixt you, and all the Churches in the Christian World, might be a part of your aberration in part, and of that which we know in part; And upon this consideration, esteemed it no less a part of my duty, and Christian liberty, as a man, to oppose myself to five men, then for five men to oppose themselves to the common opinion of five hundred thousand, to so many learned, so many holy Divines, hundreds, and thousands for one of you, no ways inferior to the learnedst, and best amongst you; And not only to particular men, and Divines, but to so many, yea and those the most pure, and most Reformed Churches of the World, amongst whom there have been found so many thousands who have sealed Christ's Truth with the loss of their goods, imprisonment of their bodies, by the exile of their Persons, yea, with their dearest blood, and lieus, who if they wrought not miracles, at the least God declared his Almighty Power in working miracles about them, and upholding them; (Men of so great worth, that the world was not worthy of them: And howsoever these Motives be great, yet wrought they not so much upon me as this, That I am persuaded in my conscience, that your opinion of Independency, etc. if it were admitted (pardon my expression till I be better instructed by you, or some others) could not but prove the root of all sort of Schism, and Heresy, and consequently the utter overthrow of Christ's Universal Militant Church here upon Earth. Besides all these considerations, I had many more, and amongst the rest, your hard expressions against them that love, and pity you, your apparent resolution in desiring a Toleration of your Religion, and consequently of a Separation from our Churches, which howsoever they have power to hinder you, yet condescend to be suppliants to you, that you will entertain union, and communion with them. I may add to all these your undervaluing of the Parliaments great Favours towards you; for ye know, Brethren, how they (notwithstanding all this, and your former Separation from all other Christian Churches) having taken to heart your hard usage in those evil times ye speak of, (howsoever in respect of your number ye be very few, yea hardly the hundreth part, yea not so much as one part of the Divines of this Kingdom, in respect of your Separation) invited you most lovingly to be Members of this present Assembly of the most learned, holy, and reverend Divines of both Kingdoms; whereof, had not they given you the capacity, ye had been altogether incapable: And not only that, but also having resolved to send two Divines from hence with their Commissioners to Scotland, they honoured one of you with this high favour (the greatest they could confer upon you at that time) and so in effect did honour you with the half of the honour, which belonged to all the Divines of the Kingdom; And yet notwithstanding all these great testifications of so great, and tender affections towards you, ye five men, five Members of the Assembly, (by whose Counsel, and Instigation, or upon what Motives we know not) joined yourselves in a particular Combination, without the knowledge of either Parliament or Assembly, to draw up and publish unto the World an Apologetical Narration, as ye term it, containing in effect, (howsoever ye name it) a singular desire of Separation from them, that so cherish you, with some unworthy Nicknames, ye put upon them, who style you by no worse names, than Brethren. By such proceed, what else have ye done, but erected an Assembly in the Assembly, a particular Assembly in a public Assembly, by private Authority against public Authority, taking private Resolutions against all public Resolutions, whatsoever might be concluded either in Parliament, or Assembly; and in one word, an Assembly to overthrow the Assembly? These reasons joined together with sundry others, made me to think more than I say, and to suspect that ye would say more than ye say. And therefore, laying all particular affections aside, I resolved myself to publish these following Considerations, and Annotations upon this your Apologetical Narration; which truly I do not out of any spleen against you (God knows it) for never one of you, ever offended me; yea, I may say, that I love you all from my heart, and that in writing of this, my soul is, as it were, rend in two parts, my understanding carrying it one way, and my will another; Christ's verity forcing the one, and your singular piety alluring the other: But I must conclude, That it is better to follow God then man, what ever he be, or may appear to be; and that the will, that is but a blind faculty, must let itself be led by the light of the understanding, which is the eye of the soul. And as I writ not out of spleen, so may I attest him, who seethe all things, that I do it not to gain any man's affection, or favour, much less in hope of any other worldly ends; and that if I did it to gain any man's love, or friendship, I am as much desirous of yours, as any others: No such ends moved me: But if I have any knowledge of myself at this present, at the writing of this Answer (which yet I know is not such as it should be) I may say, That my main aim has been God's glory, and the edification of weak Brethren, who may have been misled by your most learned Discourse; esteeming, that during the rest of my Pilgrimage, which cannot be long, having no other thing to do, I shall do well to do this, and so improve my Talon to his glory, the Edification of his Church, and the Salvation of my own Soul, and so I remain  
Your very loving Brother in Christ, A. S.   

Some General CONSIDERATIONS Upon the Apologetical Narration.  

I.  
WHether in any Ecclesiastical or Political Assembly of the Christian World, wherein things are carried by plurality of voices, it be ordinary for any inconsiderable number thereof, to join in a particular combination among themselves; and therein to take particular resolutions, to publish them unto the world; and so to anticipate upon the resolutions of the whole Assembly.   

II.  
Whether in taking such resolutions, they should not consequently resolve themselves to quit the Assembly, and to appear as Parties? And if any man or men should do so, either in this Parliament, or this Assembly; if a connivance at such a matter should not be reputed for an act of great favour, love, and extraordinary tender affection towards them?   

III.  
Whether such an inconsiderable member, in so doing, may not be refused by the parties, as incompetent Judges.   

FOUR  
Whether this Apologetical Narration was necessary, when ye found the calumnies, mistakes, misapprehensions of your opinions, and mists, that had gathered about you, or were rather cast upon your persons, in your absence, begin by your presence again, and the blessing of God upon you, to scatter and vanish, without speaking a word for yourselves or cause? And if the honour the Parliament shown you, in calling you to be Members of the Assembly, was not sufficient enough, to justify your persons from all sort of aspersions and calumnies, without any Apology? Whether after the dissipation of such Clouds, and such a justification, this Apology was rather necessary, then before, when ye were under the cloud, and not justified?   

V  
Whether this your Apologetical Narration, wherein ye blame all Protestant Churshes, as not having the power of godliness, and the profession thereof, with difference from carnal and formal Christians, advanced and held forth among them, as among you, be seasonable, when the Church of God and this Kingdom stand in need of their Brotherly Assistance; and particularly of that of the Scots (against whom it is commonly thought to be particularly intended) who at this very time so unseasonable, according to their duty, hazard their Lives and Estates for God's Church, all this Kingdom, and you also?   

VI  
Whether (as it is observed by sundry men of learning, and as ye have noted yourselves) ye should not have done better, to have sit down your opinions by way of Theses, and so manifested unto us, wherein ye agree, or disagree with us, or from us? the Brownists, Anabaptists, and these whom ye pretend to hold the same Tenets with you, in old and new England, and the Netherlands, then in a Rhetorical and Oratorius way, endeavour in the most part of your Book, to publish your great Sufferings, and extraordinary Piety, and so to move us all to compassion, and ravish us into admiration, as if ye meant rather to persuade, then to prove them?   

VII.  
Many also are very desirous to know, whether this Apologetical Narration published by you five alone, be published in the name of you five alone, or of all those also, or apart of those, whom ye pretend to hold your Tenets? to the end we may know in what esteem to have it. And if in the name of you five only, the Penners and Contrivers thereof; Whether ye five can arrogate a power unto yourselves, to maintain these Tenets, as the constant opinion of all your Churches, having no general Confession of their Faith thereabout? If in the name of all the rest, we desire ye would show your Commission from all your Churches, by what authority ye do it? Or if ye do it without Commission and Authority from them, if that be not to assume unto yourselves a greater Authoritative power, then that ye call Presbyterial? yea, then ever was the Episcopal?   

VIII.  
It were also not amiss ye should declare, Whether ye desire a Toleration for you five alone in your Religion, or for all the rest? Item, If a Toleration in public, in erecting of Churches apart? or to live quietly without troubling of the State? as for the last, appearingly, ye may have it unsought; but for the rest, the Parliament is wise enough, and knoweth what is convenient for the Church of God and the State.   

IX.  
And because your whole draught of this Book tends evermore unto a Toleration, and consequently unto some Separation; I would willingly know of you? What things are to be tolerated, or not tolerated in Religion? not in private persons, but in Conseciations? And particularly, when the whole Kingdom is joined in one Religion? What sort of new Consociations of divers Religions, it may in good conscience tolerate and receive into it? Item, Upon what ground Churches may, in good conscience, make Separation from other Churches, that desire Union and Communion with them? Whether they that aim at a Toleration and Separation, be not rather bound to tolerate some small pretended defects, not approved by those from whom they desire to separate themselves; (and especially, when they that are so desirous of Separation, are not pressed to be Actors in any thing against their conscience) then to separate themselves from a Church, that testifies a great desire to reform the defects, pretended to be in it? Whether it were not better for them, that aim at Toleration and Separation, to stay in the Church, and to join all their endeavours with their Brethren, to reform abuses, then by Separation to let the Church of God perish in abuses? Whether they do not better, that stay in the Church to reform it, when it may be reform, then who quit it, for fear to be deformed in it?    

ANNOTATIONS Upon the INSCRIPTION Of this BOOK  
[An Apologetical Narration.]  
ALL Apologies presuppose some Accusation, which here appears none; or if it be intended, as an Apologetical answer to what hath been written against your Opinions; it comes very short, weak, and slender, and no way satisfactory to their Arguments.  
Neither is it a mere Apologetical Narration, but also a grievous Accusation against all our Churches, as destitute of the power of godliness, etc. So it is a mistake in the very Title of the Book, which is either untrue, or inadoequate to the subject whereof it treateth.  
[Humbly submitted] So humbly submitted to the honourable Houses of Parliament, as if they submit not themselves to your desires, in granting you a Toleration (for any thing I can see) ye seem no ways minded to submit yourselves to theirs. It seems also very probable, That being Divines, ye should rather first have consulted with the Assembly of Divines, your Brethren, than so ex abrupto, gone to the Civil Magistrate, that arrogates not to himself, any directive power in matters of Religion: This should have testified more Brotherly and Christian Charity, than here it does of political humility: And it is more convenient to the spirit and power of godliness; that the spirit of Prophets, in such matters, should be subject unto Prophets, then unto the spirit of the Civil Magistrate; who, for this effect, hath convocate an Assembly of Prophets, and would not undertake it himself. So this is a submission, That this most just and severe Tribunal, and most Sacred refuge, and Asylum of mis-judged innocence, requireth not of you.  
[By Thomas Goodwin, etc.] We have hereupon already expressed in the Epistle, and in our seventh observation, what many Learned and good men desire, and what may be their judgement hereupon about you five.  
Pag. 1. Now Members of the Assembly of Divines] and this also we have touched in our Epistle, and upon [humbly submitted.]  

Notes upon the first Page.  
Sect. 1.  
Our ears, etc.] Here beginneth this Apologetical Narration; which, from this unto the ninth Section, Page the fifth, hath little or nothing material, touching the questions in controversy betwixt our Brethren and us: Only it containeth a Narration of their godly ways, whereupon they have never been challenged by their Brethren, that ever I could hear of.  
[filled with exclamations] What can be these exclamations or exclamators, we know not, and therefore answers not.  
Sect. 2. And now, etc.] It may seem very probable to reasonable men, 1. That it should have been more seasonable, To have made this appearance into public light, before your entrance into the Assembly, than so many Months after. 2. Before your Brethren, in submitting your spirit of Prophets unto that of the whole Assembly, then in this extraordinary way, unparalelled by any like unto it in the world. 3. To have sought of them a Testimony, then after this way, to take it at your own hand, and give it unto yourselves.  
[lain under so dark a cloud] Ye avow hereafter, that it is vanished away; so ye lose your pains, in taking away a cloud, that is no more: See our fourth observation.  
[The Supreme Judicatory, severe Tribunal, the most Sacred Refuge, and Asylum for mistaken, and mis-judged innocence.] The Parliament indeed is all this, in civil causes, but it pretends no directive power in matters of Religion, by teaching, or preaching, or judging of controversies of Religion; nor any executive power, that is intrinsecall unto the Church, as in the Vocation, Deposition, and Suspension of Ministers, in Ecclesiastical Censures, in Excommunication, etc. which are merely spiritual; but only an executive, coercitive, and external power; which is not in, but about the Church, and for the Church, whereby it compelleth refractory men to obey the Church: And this authority belongs actually, and in effect, in actu exercito (as they say) & jure in re, to true Christian Magistrates; but to others potentially, in actu signate, and jure in rem only, till they become true Christians. In virtue of this Authority, when Parties pretend to be offended by the Church, or if the Church judge any thing amiss, he may command the Church to revise and re-examine its judgement, and to reform it, if it containeth any thing amiss. And in this sense, Constantine the Great, refusing an unjust and exorbitant power, that the Counsel gave to him, said very wisely; Vos in Ecclessa, ego extra Ecclesiam Episcopus, For he was no Ecclesiastical Minister, Overseer, or Controller, but God's Minister in the State, for the weal of his Church in the State; which was not formally of the State, howsoever materially it was in the State: Wherefore if your meaning here be, That the Parliament should judge of the questions in debate, betwixt you and your Brethren; ye go against the Parliaments intention, which esteeming itself, to have no calling of God thereunto, very wisely did convocate an Assembly of Divines to that effect: Neither believe I, that ye will grant unto it and the Assembly both, such an authority; or if ye grant it, I doubt, if ye will submit yourselves unto it: And indeed, to grant them such a power, were nothing else, but to join yourselves with the Arminians, who granted it to the Civil Magistrate, when they thought to have had him for them; and afterwards repent themselves, when they found him against them.  
Sect. 3. Pag. 2. [The most, etc.] To this Paragraph I have nothing to say, but that it is the judgement of many very judicious and godly Divines, That a Pastor is bound to stay with his Flock, so long as he is not pressed to be an Actor in any thing against his conscience; which many good men have done in this Kingdom, and in so doing upheld many others.  
Sect. 4. Pag. 2. [Neither, etc.] Here I note two things. 1. Ye call other Churches, your Neighbour Churches; if so, they are your sister Churches; And then how is it, That ye will not admit all the Members of their Churches, unto your Communion, at the Table of the Lord? Will ye, or dare ye, communicate with them, or not? If ye dare, how dare ye not admit them all unto your Communion? If ye dare not, how can ye hold them for Brethren, with whom ye dare not eat or drink, at that spiritual Feast of Brotherly Love and Charity? 2. Ye tell us, That for fear of violence and persecution, ye made choice of a voluntary exile. If this be said to excuse your departure, I have nothing to say; But if it be to blame them, that notwithstanding all persecution, remained in their stations, I remit the Reader to the third Section: only I add this, That they, who notwithstanding their personal persecutions remained in their Stations, in confirming others, are no less to be commended than ye: Neither is the Soldier less valorous, that standeth by his Colours, fight constantly, and courageously to death, than he that leaveth them, flying away, upon any imminent danger whatsoever, whatever his affection be unto the cause: And if they all had fled away, what might have become of the poor Church of God in this Kingdom? it might been, that ere now, Impius haec tam culta novalia miles haberet, Barbarus has segetes. Praised be God, that it pleased him in his mercy to uphold those men in these dangers, that they might be a means of upholding the Members of his Church here. Yea, who knoweth, if in such corrupt times, many things were not rather to have been tolerated, which then could not be amended, than their Stations to have been deserted, so they had not been Actors in ill doing? Neither was the watchfulness of those times so great, but that many good men might enjoy, and enjoyed in effect the Ordinances of Christ. And howbeit it had been so; yet was it not necessary therefore to make a Schism, in quiting the Communion of all other Churches abroad. Many Divines hold also, That the Minister of Christ ought not to fly away for his personal persecution, but for that only of his flock.  
Sect. 5. pag. 3. [This being, etc.] In this and the next Section, ye seem to come to the question in controversy, viz. Unto Ecclesiastical Government; but it containeth nothing probative of your opinion, but only narrative of your enquiry, and holy proceed therein; which ye willingly desire to persuade, that it has been the most holy that could be found by flesh and blood, in any juncture of time that may fall out, as wanting no helps that could further it, and having no impediments that could hinder it. Your helps were first, God's Word; Secondly, The Discipline of the Reformed Churches; Thirdly, That of the Non-Conformists; Fourthly, That of New-England; Fifthly, The example and precedent of the Shipwreck of the Brownists; Sixthly, The reason ye had to be true to your consciences. The impediments or hindrances ye could have, were, first worldly temptations; secondly, aims; thirdly, education; fourthly, engagement to other Churches, from which all ye were free. But this Enumeration is imperfect; for the grace of God which is the principal help, without which we can do nothing, is here omitted. But let us examine them all according to the order that ye have set them down.  
[We looked upon the Word of Christ, as impartially, and unprejudicedly, as men made of flesh and blood are like to do in any juncture of time, that may fall out.] This is much: As for us Brethren, being but men made of flesh and blood; we know that we know but in part; that we do but in part the good, we have power to do; for we have power to do more good than we do, that we may omit much evil, that we do; that of both we know very little, in respect of that we know not, For the heart of man is deceitful, and who can know it: And as for others, we know much less than of ourselves, not knowing their hearts, temptations, aims, intentions, or their sins, repentance, backslidings, their falls, or uprising; but least of all of men possible in junctures of time to come, that God can create; for what know ye or we, Brethren, what may be? And therefore, we dare not be so bold, as to compare ourselves with others in time present; much less with those that be possible in junctures of time to come, in esteeming ourselves as good, or better, than they may be: And therefore, I esteem that your comparison proceedeth rather of flesh and blood, then of the spirit of God. We wish indeed, we were the best of all men, but we esteem not ourselves the best; Oh, that we might be but in the number of good men. We wish, we could say as much as ye; but again, we dare not, being conscious of our own infirmity, that we are but flesh and blood.  
But ye seem to prove it, by removing of hindrances, as first, Of Temptations of the place ye went unto, your condition and company, which left you as freely to be guided by God's Word, as the Needle touched with the Loadstone is in the compass.  
But this is an imperfect Enumeration of Temptations: It containeth only some external, and yet not all, as those, that proceed from the Devil, and omit internal Temptations, whereof ye purge not yourselves sufficiently: But left that company you in such a condition? Medied itself no more in a business of so great consequence, in establishing a new Government, to which it was to submit itself? Did it so let itself be led by the nose? Had it no more interest in the business? It is too much: Only I add, it is one of the greatest Temptations, that a man can fall into, to esteem himself without Temptations; and that such a man, in such a case, should not need to say, Led us not into Temptation: And was this no Temptation, that ye went out of your Country with some miscontentment in it; that ye found yourselves so consociated, that ye might frame your Government to your present estate and condition, as was requisite in such a company; that shuning too much one extremity, because of your sufferings, ye should presently run into the other. Neither was this extravagant power a small temptation, Nunquam satis fida potentia, ubi vimia est.  
[We had (say ye) of all men, the greatest reason to be true to our own consciences in what we should embrace.]  
This Brethren cannot be said, without a high esteem of yourselves, and great undervaluing of others: Have not other men as good reason as ye, to be true unto their consciences, since they are all bound under the pain of eternal condemnation to that duty? What greater reason than this, can ye have? Have not these (whom ye call Presbyterians) who were condemned to death, for that Discipline, ready to be executed, who afterward were exiled into foreign Countries, wherein they ended their lives; who were men of no less learning, abilities, and holiness of life, than any of your profession, had they not (I say) as great reason to be true to their consciences, as ye can have?  
Afterward in this Paragraph ye remove all aims and ends, that might make you bias. [We had (say ye) not new Commonwealths to rear, etc.] As much may all Schismatics say; Neither can every man have new Commonwealths to rear; neither can these of New-England say so: And as for you five, your number was too small; and howsoever, ye had not Kingdoms in your eye, yet had every one of you, one in his heart, to subdue: Tunc omnia jura renebis, cum poteris Rex esse tui: Hoc regnum sibi quisque dat: This is a Kingdom, which every man by God's grace, may take and give to himself, without any material Arms, or Armies: And howbeit, ye have no State ends, nevertheless, as ye have very many good men, so have ye very many good Statesmen among you, yea, more than those that maintain Presbyterian Discipline in regard of your number: But what Republikes had the Protestants in France or Scotland, to rear, or worldly Kingdoms to subdue more than ye?  
Your mould (of Church Government) will be coexistent (say ye) with the peace of any form of civil Government on earth] that may be true of yours; but not of ours; for it cannot comply with that of the Turks; and we confess ingenuously, that for any thing we know, yours will comply a great deal more with State, and State aims, than ever S. Peter, S. Paul, or we could do; howsoever, ours submitteth itself willingly to all sort of just Government, that is of God. Neither requireth the Parliament any thing more of the Church of GOD.  
Howbeit, ye had No preferment or worldly respects to shape your opinions for]; yet praised be God, your Ministers have no want, but as great abundance of worldly means, as any of your Brethren that stand for Presbyterial Government. But what preferment or worldly respects, could Calvin or Beza have had, who for the purity of Doctrine, and of Discipline, introduced this Presbyterial Government, whereby both themselves, and all they that should thereafter profess the Gospel, were deprived of all hopes of future preferment, and worldly respects? What preferment or worldly respects could they have, that refused them, when they were offered unto them, and preferred death and perpetual exile, before good fat Bishoprics? We know King James his round answer, when some asked him, wherefore he preferred not good men to Bishoprics in Scotland? The Devil an honest man (says he) will accept them. And what greater preferment have they, who at this present travel to bring in Presbyterial Government? Are they richer than before they were? Are they to be in greater places, than Ministers of the Word? Truly I may say something that I have seen: Some of them sundry times, so exhausted their sickly bodies, with pains in this Cause, that sundry times they lost their health, and fell sick; but for worldly profit and preferment, I never heard of it.  
How great a fortune made Calvin with it? Who as it is known, and faithfully related by those who did write his life, sundry times refused worldly means, in a very fair and honourable way offered unto him; and whose Inventory after his death, hardly could amount to 40 pounds?  
We had (say ye) nothing else to do but simply and singly to consider how to worship God acceptably. Answ. So much may many others say. But most truly, may as much be said of our first Parents in Paradise, yet they gave themselves some other thing to do: Besides all this, ye are too peremptorious, ye five, to speak in the name of all the rest; for howsoever, every one of you, may answer for one, viz. for himself; yet can none of you, nor ye all; answer for all those of your profession, since their hearts are unknown to you, and ye have no warrant from them.  
Sect. 6. pag. 4. We were not engaged by Education, etc.] And yet it is a blessing of God, by Education to be engaged to good, and bred in a true Doctrine and Ecclesiastical Discipline: Neither esteem I, that it was a curse to the People of God, to have been bred in his Covenant: Neither think ye it, a curse to yours, to have been bred amongst you.  
Ye suppose that other Reformed Churches, might not see in all things: So suppose we of you, and that with greater reason, being but five men, not comparable with so many lights of the World, of whom ye make yourselves judges.  
And yet ye esteem wrong in esteeming, that their intention was most spent in the Reformation of Doctrine. 1. For that is indirectly to accuse them of negligence, in reforming of Discipline. 2. Because their Consultations, and Epistles, sent to sundry Churches abroad, testifies the contrary. 3. Because the French tia well very much about their Discipline, and have reform sundry things therein. 4 And have a great many more helps, than ye to frame it, to God's Word; for it is expressly enjoined, every Church Ruler, to read it diligently: Once every three months it is read in their Consistory; and what ever any man findeth defectuous in it, is represented to the Synod wherein there are so many of the learnedst, most judicious, and holy Divines of the whole Kingdom; by whom after due Examination, by Common-advice, in the fear of the Lord, at may much better be reform, then by the advice of one Independent Minister, and two or three Ruling Elders in their particular Congregation: And to think that one of you, can see more, than so many learned and Godly men, gathered in the fear of the Lord, cannot be thought without too good opinion of yourselves. 5. Besides all this, a good Discipline, may very well be established, by men of less holiness of life, so be it, they have greater abilities, for the gift of constituting a good Discipline, is not a gift proper to a good man, but to a good Church Officer it is not Gratia grarum faciens, sed gratis data; not a saving gift or grace that maketh us gracious or acceptable to God, but graciously given or bestowed upon us; not to save ourselves, but other men, as the gift of Prophecy; for a man in preaching and ruling, may save others, and damn himself. And a man may be a very good Prophet or Ruler in the Church, if he have the abilities thereunto, and exercise them well; and an ill man, if he let not himself be taught and ruled: So we may say, a man may be a good Citizen, a good King, a good Soldier, or a good Cobbler, but an ill man.  
Ye grant, that In Doctrine they had a most happy hand: but wherefore may ye not judge them, as well to have had an happy hand in Discipline? Was God's hand more deficient to them in the one, then in the other? Or had they less abilities? Or used they not their abilities? What reason rather for the one, then for the other? Had they more Kingdoms to subdue than ye? Or any other political aims? Or greater temptations than ye?  
In the same Paragraph, ye propound your Obtervations: viz. That that Government, viz. Presbyterial hath been accompanied with more peace than yours; and it is very true, for who can tell, how many Schisms and Heresies your Government is subject unto? What Divisions and immortal hatreds it hath bred in New-England? etc. 2. If it hath more peace, than it is such, as it should be, and obtaineth its adequate end, which is the external peace of the Church.  
Ye add, That the power of godliness had not been advanced amongst them, at in this Island. From whence ye seem to infer, that it is not so good as yours. Ans. 1. As for your Antecedent; it is too bold to make yourselves Judges of the power of godliness in other Churches, and to judge yourselves the holiest of all others.  
But ye prove it by their own Confession: Answ. Brethren ye do not well to take advantage upon other men's Humility for to depress them, and extol yourselves; They do well to think soberly of themselves: So do not ye in esteeming so highly of yourselves, and so meanly of them. 2. And the French are very courteous and civil, but the more courteous and civil they be, the more discourteous, and uncivil be ye, that take advantage by their courteousness and civility, to depress them under yourselves. 3. They have also this defect, that they have too many compliments: But they say also, Let compliments ne doibvent point estre pris au pied de la lettre, Compliments must not be taken literally. It seems ye have not much traveled amongst them, or remarked well the fashion of the Country.  
But put the case, your Antecedent were as true as it is false: yet your Consequence is naught, because of many captions and sophistications it containeth; only I will touch two, the first is fallacia non causae, ut causae, a fallacious argumentation which bringeth a false and apparent cause, for the true cause of the effect, or a false effect for the true effect of the cause; for if there were a greater power of godliness amongst you, then in other Churches, the cause thereof, should not be the fault of the Government, but of the Devil, of those that govern, or are governed; not because your Discipline is better than ours, or ours worse than yours; But 1. because the Devil evermore assaults more the true Church, the true Doctrine, and true Discipline, than the corrupted Church, her corrupted Doctrine or Discipline; to the end, that thereby he may calumniate them all, imputing craftily to the Church of God, to the true Doctrine and Discipline, that which should be imputed to himself. Or 2. Because that the Governors or Rulers of the Church, put not the Discipline duly in execution: Or 3. Because they that should be governed, will not obey the truth.  
3. Put the case the Antecedent were true, and there were no such captious argumentation: Yet from hence, should it not follow that Independent, but that Episcopal Government should be better than the Presbyterian; because the power of godliness acknowledged by strangers, to be greater here, then with them, was not in Holland, or in New-England, under Independency; but in old England, not under Independent (which hath never here been received) but dependent, viz. Episcopal Government, that could not endure Indepency, but persecuted it: So Brethren, here according to your fashion, you prove that which ye intent least to prove, wherein ordinarily ye are very unfortunate: And if this ye prove, it is another Sophistication, commonly called fallacia ignorationis elenchi, and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, when ye prove one question or conclusion for another.  
Ye had (said ye) the light of old Non-conformists, and their draughts of Discipline: But ye condemned all, as Sovereign Judges, And that much more commended to us, because (say ye) they were our own: Here ye manifest a temptation, which ye concealed before.  
Ye had the fatal miscarriages and shipwreck of those of the Separation, whom ye say, we call Brownists: But so call not ye them, because ye symbolise more with them, and had rather call us Calvinians, with the Papist, then them Brownists, with us, as they merit; because of the Author of their Sect.  
Afterwards, in the last part of this Paragraph, ye come to the examples of New-England, improved (as ye say) to a better Edition, and greater refinement; whom ye extol very highly, in comparing them with our father Abraham, and yet ye stood (say ye) as unengaged Spectators. So then your Religion in this point was in abstractione praecisionis, abstracted and separated from all Religion, without all Religion, and to live as Spectators: This your Religion in this point, was very speculative, and if it were in any other matter then that of Religion, we might justly say, Spectatum admissi risum teneatis amici.  
We resolved not (say ye) to take up our Religion, by, or from any part. Neither could ye, being so abstract from all parties, for ye dissented from all the World; ye held all the World for parties, and made yourselves Judges of all the World, till ye had made choice of your new Religion: If this Method in making choice of Religion, be good and honest, than all those that are bred in your Religion, should do so; which as I believe, ye will no ways grant.  
Upon this Section, wherein ye so much extol your New-England-men, I must say something of those that stood for Presbyterian Government: And not to insist upon this, how some of them, as the Histories relate, had the gift of Prophecy? What miracles, or at least, marvellous things, were done by, or about them, in the time of their Imprisonment, and afterwards, in their Exile for that Cause: How God extraordinarily poured forth his Judgements upon those that were instruments of their vexation; and afterward, extraordinarily delivered them, upon their repentance: How some of them, in strange Countries, extraordinarily got the Language of the Country in three months, so as to be able to Preach: How the people flocked about them in their houses: How powerfully they preached twice a day; which was thought insupportable to humane nature, in respect of the violence of their action; and that not for one day, but all the days of their lives, to the admiration of many thousands: How the Papists themselves (howsoever ordinarily in their speeches they condemned all Huguenots to hell) yet excepted them, because of the holiness of their lives: How they were never out of Prayers, Meditation or Preaching, as sundry eye witnesses here can testify: How all the Priests and Doctors, even the learnedst of them, that were sent to the place where they were, to hinder the conversion of the Papists, were converted themselves: Only I will say one word of some, who, not above four or five years ago, undertook a Voyage for a new Plantation in America, in as great a Wilderness, as any of your New-England-men, and that with far less worldly means, only for God's Service; These men, I say, being about the number of one hundred and twenty in one Bottom, and some thousands of miles on their way, it pleased God that a Tempest so violent seized them, as in it they lost their Rudder, spent all their Masts save one, and sprung three Leaks, whereby the water came in in such abundance, that, notwithstanding their extraordinary diligence at the Pumps, as also their indefatigable pains in lading it out by Buckets, hardly could they save the Ship from sinking under them: And yet in this case, ever hoping against hope, the Tempest continuing, it pleased him, who commands the Winds and Tempests, by the same Tempest to bring them back to the very Port they set out of, and after wards made them Judges of those that had unjustly judged them; and instruments, with the rest of the Kingdom, for the establishing of the Presbyterial Government in greater purity there, from whence it was almost cast out. What these men's lives were, the world can with no less admiration wonder at, then at their wondrous deliverance. And yet for all this, will I not compare these men with any men in the World, in any juncture of time, that may fall out. As I honour their gifts, so do I other men's also; but which of them all, be the best men, or most impartial Judges, he knoweth best, who knows the hearts of all men.  
Sect. 7. In this Section, ye give out your judgement of other Churches; and in the next, viz. 8ᵒ. other Church's judgement of you: I believe ye understand those of the Netherlands.  
Ye acknowledge the Churches under Episcopal Government in England, and under Presbyterial in France, Holland, and Scotland, for true Churches, and their Ministry, for a true Ministry.  
But here I desire, with many others, to know what ye understand by true Churches, and a true Ministry? Whether a Metaphysical, Logical, or a Moral verity?  
If ye understand that they be true Churches, Veritate Metaphysica Entis & Transcendentali, such as Dú Plessis, and many of our Divines grant unto the Romish Church; viz. That she is a true Church, (as a Pocky whore, is a true Woman) howsoever her flesh be so consumed with corruption, that she cannot live, but must die of it, and that none can touch her, without danger of being infected with her sickness; for she is an Harlot and a Whore, howsoever clothed with Scarlet: We thank you for your favour: Ye hold us in the same category with Rome.  
If ye hold us a true Church, veritate logica, and morally, for a pure Church; wherefore desire ye a Toleration? Wherefore will ye not join with us, and communicate, as Brethren, with us?  
But ye add a little after the middle part of this Section, That ye both did, and would hold, a Communion, with all those Churches, as with the Churches of Christ.  
But what communion is this, ye hold with these, rather than with Papists, Brownists, Anabaptists in England, and the Lutherans?  
If ye say in Doctrine; that Union is not external, since ye testify it not, by your external Communion in the Sacraments with us; for ye will not admit all those to your Communion, that we admit to ours: 2. Neither will those of New-England, whom ye cry up, and extol so highly, admit those of our Church to their Communion, or to be Members of their Churches, unless of late, they have changed their opinion; and ye, and they temporize in conforming your opinions to the times, and commensurate them to Political aims for Toleration. 3. Neither know we, whether they will communicate with us; at least their Writings and Letters, from New-England, which heretofore we have seen, testify no such thing; so that in this ye descent from them, unless they within this year, descent from themselves. 4. By the same reason, ye may communicate with Schismatics, and men that are excommunicated amongst yourselves for their ill life, viz. drunkards, blasphemous persons, etc. 5. By the same reason ye communicate with some Papists in profession, that believe all that we believe in Doctrine; 6. And with them all, and all Heretics in part, because they agree in part, in the Doctrine, with us.  
If it be replied, That they with whom they communicate, must also be of good life; I duply, than it is not a mere Communion in Doctrine, but in some other thing beside, viz. In good life. And then 2. If they have both sound Doctrine, and be of a good life; or have Faith, which causes good Doctrine, and Charity the cause of a good life: Wherefore desire ye a Toleration, to make a Sect apart, or what desire ye more, to make up one Church with them?  
But howsoever ye pretend this real Profession of Communion with us, yet ye overthrew it by your restriction afterwards, viz. To such as ye know to be Godly, that came to visit you in your exile: But ye will not admit all the Members of our Churches, but such as ye only judge, not we, to be Members of our Church.  
Ye say in the same Section, That ye Baptise your Children in our Parishionell Congregations: Wherefore then will ye not as well communicate at the Lords Table with us all? And if so, Wherefore will ye not likewise admit us all to your Communion?  
In the 8. §. [And as we always, etc.] In this Paragraph, or Section, ye show the judgement of foreign Churches concerning you, how ye both mutually gave, and received the right ●●●ds of fellowship: How they gave you Churches to Preach in, some Privileges, a maintenance annually for your Ministers, etc.] So here in England hitherto ye have had liberty to Preach in our Churches, and may have, if ye will, and some of you have some Benefices: But if ye go on, aiming at a Toleration, and consequently, at some Separation, as we have showed, I doubt if ye shall, or should have any annual allowance at all, or Churches to Preach in, as before you had. Moreover, we know not, upon what grounds ye were tolerated in the Netherlands; whether it was not in consideration of your precedent afflictions, hoping that ye might submit yourselves to Presbyterial Government in your own Country, if it were well established; or in favour of some Merchants; by public or private authority, Ecclesiastical or Civil, or other ways. Only we say, That many Sects are tolerated there: Neither howbeit ye were tolerated in the Netherlands, Polonia or Germany. where many Religions are tolerated and permitted out of Civil respects, Is it equitable, ye should be tolerated here, where there is one only Religion professed, and one Government, as we shall see hereafter.  
In the 9.10.11.12.13.14. ye give account of your Practices in public Worship, Church Officers, matter of Government and Censures, and your directive principles in all this: Hence in the 15.16.17.18.19.20.21. ye infer your Conclusion of Independency of every particular Congregation. As for the parts of your public worship, we consent with you.  
In your Church Officers, ye acknowledge with us four; viz. Pastors, Teachers, Ruling Elders, and Deacons. But ye lash us a little with your Parenthesis about our Ruling Elders. [With us not Lay, but Ecclesiastic persons, separated to that service.] Here ye seem to accuse the Reformed Churches in France, the Netherlands, Scotland, etc. as if they all esteemed them Lay, and not Ecclesiastical Persons. If this be your mind, it is a great mistake in you; and we can produce their writings to the contrary; if not, we know not, to what end, ye inserted this particular Parenthesis. As ye therefore inserted yours, so do we ours [but not Preachers, or Teachers of the Word:] And therefore we desire to know of you, if Ruling Elders have power to teach; as it is maintained by other Independents; and if they Preach or Teach, how they can be distinguished from Preachers, and Teachers? For all Charges receive their unity, and distinction from their Acts, and Ends: Wherefore, if the Ruling Elder Preach, or Teach, which is the Act, and End of the Preacher, and Teacher, he must have the same Office with Preachers, and Teachers. 2. The Apostle also distinguishes them, 1 Cor. 12. Wherefore then confound ye them?  
Ye add in this 9 Section concerning Excommunication upon obstinacy and impenitency, this Parenthesis, as worthy of some particular observation, [which we bless God we never used] as if your Churches were so pure, that not one man should deserve it: We cannot say so much of our Churches: Neither can your Brethren of New-England say so much of theirs: We know, that some have been Independenters, as we ourselves have heard from their own mouths, that now are become Anabaptists: And whether such men merited it, or not, judge ye: If they merited it, ye have been very partial, and unjust, in not using of it: So that proceeds not from want of demerits, in the persons to be punished, but of justice in the Rulers to execute it.  
Neither do we deny, but a number of very holy persons may be gathered together, who may so carry themselves for some time, as not to commit any great offence with pertinacy, to deserve Excommunication, if the choice be good. But to say, that it may last long so in Populous Congregations, and in a great number of Churches, ye may tell us this news, when your Churches are multiplied, and become as Populous, and have endured as long as ours. We could tell wonders also of our Churches in some parts, in the beginning of the Reformation: But the question is not, who liveth, holiest, but whose Discipline is most conform unto God's Word?  
Your Directive Principles were three. 1. God's Word, and the Law of Nature fully known. 2. Not to make your present judgement, and practise a binding Law unto yourselves, for the future. 3. In matters of greatest moment, and controversy, ye still thosed to practise safely, and so as ye had reason to judge, that all sorts, or most of all the Churches did acknowledge warrantable, although they make additaments thereunto.  
We agree with you in these principles in general; 
§ 11. p. 9  and nevertheless we must touch a word in passing, of that, which we observe in every one of them, and in every Paragraph. And first, in the 11. §. about the midst thereof, where ye say, That in God's Word ye found Principles enough, not only fundamental, and essential to the being of a Church, but superstructory also to the wellbeing of it, and those to you clear and certain. We know not what ye call Fundamental, and Essential, unto a Church; for the Essences of things are unknown unto us; Yea, the most part of the Philosophers themselves, who dispute about Essences, confess, that we know the Essence of nothing, but that only of man, which they say is animal rationale; and yet, in this they descent, and many say, that this is but an accidental expression of his Being: If ye cannot then declare us the Fundament, and Essence of the Church, ye are barbarous to us, and speak in a Language, as unknown to us, as unto yourselves.  
Again, we desire to know, What ye understand here, by the Being of a Church: whether her internal, or external Being? In Doctrine and Holiness? or in Discipline? If the first, it is not to the purpose; for we have no Dispute here with you about the internal Being, or Doctrine of the Church, as ye confess yourselves, but about her external Being, or Discipline: And in this also we confess our ignorance, that we know not wherein consisteth its Essence or Being; and that we cannot distinguish it well from its Accidents, or Superstructories, till ye teach us; and therefore desire you to avoid those obscure terms, and to give it us in some clearer.  
Ye add, That they will serve to preserve your Churches in peace: whereof ye were not content, Sect. 6, saying, That howsoever Presbyterial Government obtained this end, yet it differenced them not from carnal Christians.  
In your third Directory Principle, Sect. 13. Pag. 11. ye go very subtly to work, by Metaphysical Abstractions, as Philosophers, in abstracting their generical degrees of Essences from the special; and their Specifical from their Individual: For ye take some thing, wherein we all consent; but not all, to the end there may be something, wherein ye descent from us all. And so did the Arminians in their Confession of Faith, wherein they abstracted a degree of consent, amongst the most part of Christians, yea with the Socinians, who deny the Trinity, and the Incarnation of the Son of God; and left that, wherein they dissented, as indifferent.  
But this cannot hold; For howsoever, that, wherein, ye agree with us, be safe; yet is not that so safe, wherein ye descent from us all. Neither is it safe for so few men to descent From all the World, unless they have very strong reasons for their dissent; and principally, when the point wherein they descent, is not of great importance: For the less it is, the greater is the Schism.  
Besides this in this Directory Principle, howsoever ye seem to defer, and attribute very much to all Churches, in following their common Practices; yet ye give them nothing at all; for ye submit their judgement to your own; and whatsoever, they hold commonly against you, ye call it an Additament; so that ye are not ready in any thing to assent with them, unless they first assent unto you, which is a very prudent, and subtle Principle, as well to direct them by you, as you by them.  
3. This Principle also cannot hold. 1. For in virtue thereof, ye have as well Union and Communion with Socinians, Arrians, Anabaptists, Papists, Jesuits, and other Heretics, as with us; (howbeit not so much) for ye consent with them all, in some common Principles, as with us: And so, as for your dissent in particular Principles from them, ye may separate and do separate yourselves in effect from them; so must ye do from us, unless ye show us some other reason of Externall Union, and Separation, than yet you do.  
Before I quit this Paragraph, or Section, I must pray the Reader to note your subtle way of disputing, how ye choose some things, wherein you, and we agree, calling the test Additaments; to the end ye may not be bound to prove any thing. But this subtlety is sowed but with white thread, so as it evidently appears to all men, and will serve you for nothing. 1. For either these Additaments are conform, or repugnant to God's Word, or indifferent? If conform, wherefore reject ye them? If repugnant, ye are bound to prove it by the Word, how they are condemned by it? If indifferent, ye have no reason to condemn them, or for them, to be such eager Suitors for a Toleration of a contrary practice. 2. Item, If that which we have more than these common Principles, be an Additament, what be those, that ye hold instead of them? For ye remain not within the Limits of bare Abstractions, and Precisions, but proceed farther to some particular Positive Principles in your practice, for every Negation is founded in some Affirmation, and sin is not a mere Negation of good; but also includeth something, Positivelie contrary to good, either Physically or Morally, Really, or by reason.  
§ 14. p. 11. Ye bring some Instances of this Principle; 1. About the qualification of the Members of the Church, and promiscuous receiving of good and bad: And say, That ye choose the better part, viz. the good, and not the bad; which ye suppose to be the practice of all Protestant Churches: So ye must judge all Infants, born in the Church, and admitted to Baptism amongst you, to be good, and to have some portion of Christ, before they have the use of reason to know Christ; and so to be regenerate, when they are generated, or to consort yourselves with the Anabaptists here in England, in excluding Children from Baptism, till they have the use of reason, and profess Faith; for in Independency, and all other things, they agree with you, as they themselves avow. But of this question, about the Members of the Church, we shall, God willing, hear more hereafter, in a particular question.  
Ten lines after, ye say, That the Rules, which ye gave up your judgements unto, to judge those ye received in amongst you by, were of that Latitude, as would take in any Member of Christ, the meanest, in whom there may be supposed to be the least of Christ, Pag. 11, 12.  
If this be understood, of the receiving of men to the Church, absolutely; or of their first entry therein, we have answered already; and by the grace of God, shall answer more hereafter: If of the reception of them, to the Lords Table; I answer, That the true Reformed Churches in Scotland, France, the Netherlands, etc. receive no man to the Lords Table, whom they judge to be profane, or scandalous, none but such, as give an account of their Faith, and testify it by external Confession, and Profession in Doctrine, and Sanctification: If any Preacher, or the Consistory of Ruling Elders do other ways, it is not by rule, or their ordinary practice, but through their negligence, which, when it is known, is condemned by all. We wish, that none come to the Communion of Christ's Body, amongst us, but such, as have, and feel some measure of Christ in themselves: But who hath this measure of Christ; It is hard for any mortal man to know it, but he only that hath it: It is likewise hard to know, what measure of Grace is requisite, to make up a member of Christ, or of his Church. Some of the Casuists, esteem, that it sufficeth a Roman Catholic, explicit (as they call it,) expressly, clearly, and plainly, to believe this only Article, I believe, what the Church believeth: Others esteem it not enough, and therefore add this Article: I believe also, That the Church cannot err: Others think this yet not enough, for they wish Christians to believe this one more, viz. I believe there is a God. Some add one more, viz. That they must believe God's Providence, etc. We believe, that men are bound to believe all Divine Truths, revealed in Scripture, as necessary to Salvation; and to believe them by a justifying Faith: But what be these, that be absolutely necessary to Salvation: What are these Fundamentalia, Essentialia, and Superstructories: How may they be distinguished one from another? What is maximum quod sic, and minimum quod non: Or minimum quod sic & maximum quod non? Or your least of Christ, whereupon a man may be admitted to be a Member of Christ, we cannot define it: We leave the Decision to more subtle Spirits, and to our Brethren, who use those terms, and who, upon this minimum quod sic, or least bit of Christ, do found the Reception of Christ's Members into the Church. We esteem their Disputes too subtle, in the practice of Christianity, in judging others: And wish with the Apostle rather, every man to examine and try himself; For this directive Principle, we esteem surer than that of our Brethren. We esteem that such a Confession of Faith, and desire of Communion, as ordinarily is professed by them, who are admitted in Protestant Churches, may suffice.  
Here in the second Instance of set Form of Prayers, our Brethren note with a Parenthesis, that they condemn not others, who approve set Forms of Prayers prescribed, and the Liturgis: But whether these of New-England, and others of their Profession will not condemn them in this, we know not. I wish that this were not added rather in a compliance with the present time, then otherwise.  
Item, They tell us, That the framing of Prayers, and Sermons out of their own Gifts, are the Fruits of Christ's Ascension. But why not also of his death, and Resurrection? Since he did merit this by his death.  
In their third Instance about Government, and Ecclesiastical Discipline, we care not, what they say. The practice of the Orthodox Churches is this: They have divers Ecclesiastical Senates, or Courts, wherein some are coordinate, and others subordinated one to another. The loweest is their Consistory, or Session of the Pastors, and the Ruling Elders, in one Parish Church: Then they have their Classes, which some call Colloques, others Presbyteries, made of all the Preachers of all the Parish Churches, belonging to such Colloques, every one of them, accompanied with one Elder of his Church. 3. Their Provincial Synods, made up of all the Ministers of the Province, accompanied every one of them with one or two ruling Elders. 4. The Nationall Synod, compounded of a certain number of Ministers, and Ruling Elders, according to the exigence of time, place, and other occasions, and circumstances, Delegate from all the Provinces, or Provincial Synods. In the Consistory, or Senate of the Parish Church they judge only of things that be proper unto it, and of less importance; that have no great difficulty. In the Colloque, of that, which is common to all the Churches of that Colloque; and of business of greater importance, that cannot be judged, or well determined in a Parish Church. In a Provincial Synod, of that, which is common to all the Churches of the Province, & other things of great importance, and all cases, that cannot so sound, or so surely be determined in the former Assemblies. In a Nationall, of that, which is common to all the Churches of the whole Kingdom; and others, that cannot be determined in the precedent Assemblies, as of matters of Appeal, etc.  
Item, From the first, if any of the Parties find themselves grieved by its judgement, they may appeal to the second, as from the second, to the third, and from the third to the fourth. And all these Judgements and Proceed are without money, charges, pecuniary mulcts, or fines. And as their aims are spiritual, so be their punishments that they inflict upon their Delinquents. Their punishments are censures, Suspension from the Lords Table, and their greater Excommunication, which ordinarily are never inflicted upon whole Churches, as our Brethren unjustly would challenge us, but on particular Persons: If they had read the Discipline of the Scots, French, Netherlands. and other Reformed Churches, they needed not here have troubled themselves and us with so many mistakes: Or if they have read them, they deal not fairly with us. In some Churches, particular, or Parochial Senates, or Consistories, have power to suspend from their Communion those that be Members thereof; yea also to Excommunicate them, (from the which sentence nevertheless they may appeal unto the Superior Senate or judicatory) and that for some particular reasons.  
But this question, God willing, we shall hereafter more fully discuss. Only I note in passing, that our Brethren, First, are here too sparing of Titles to some, and too liberal to others: They name Cartwright, only Cartwright, but Baynes, holy Baynes, in the same line, as if they would Canonize the one, making him Saint Baynes, (which we condemn in the Pope) and esteem the other profane, or of the vulgar, and dregs of Divines, which, as it is said with reverence and respect of the one, so it cannot be said, without disparagement of the other. As for the distinction of Ecclesiae, in Primas, & Ortas, it requireth a particular Question apart.  
They say, 1. Every Church hath a full and entire power complete within itself, till it should be challenged to err grossly. 
Pag. 14. § 15.   
Either by a complete Power ye understand a Power absosolutely complete, or in its own kind or sort: If ye understand the first, it must be Independent, for if it depend upon a Superior to rectify it, whereunto it must give an account of its judgement, and submit itself; in that regard, it is not complete, full, or entire. If of a Power complete in its own kind or nature, ye say nothing, but what we say, since it is our opinion, That every Particular Congregation hath a complete Power in itself, such as is due to such a Congregation, dependent upon that of Classes, and Synods (in case of Appeal) whereby it may be challenged to err grossly: If it be so, Wherefore contest ye with us, who give you no subject of quarrel, as not dissenting from you in that particular?  
Pag. 14. 2º, they say, That they claim not an independent power in every Congregation, to give an account, or to be subject to no others. Answ. Then your power is dependent upon some others; then it must give an account, and be subject to some other: If subject to some others, then that other is superior; And what say we more? only we say that there is a subordination betwixt superior and inferior Ecclesiastical Judicatories, which ye hold here to be juris divini; we, partim divini, partim naturalis aut mixti. I pray you, Brethren, agree these two Propositions, how a Church can have a full and complete Government, and yet not independent; it should seem to me, that either you contradict not us, or contradict yourselves within the compass of two lines.  
Pag. 14. 3º, they deny, That by the Institution of Christ, or his Apostles, the Combination of the Elders of many Churches should be the first, complete, and entire seat of Church-power, over each Church so combined. Here ye attribute unto our Churches an opinion, That they own not as their own; viz. That the Combination of Elders of many Churches is the first Seat of Church-power; for they hold the contrary, viz. That the first Seat of Government is in Parochial Churches, since there the parties debates their cause, in first Instances; if ye say that by first, ye understand the principal; than ye cannot deny, but that Senate or Assembly, whereunto Particular Congregations are subject, whose judgement, according to God's Word, they must obey, and of whose judgement their judgements depend, must be the principal Seat of Church-power; for that is principal, whereof the other dependeth, and to which the other is subject.  
Neither say we, That it is the complete, and entire Seat of all Ecclesiastical Judgement; since in things of less concernment, and that only belong to Particular Congregations, we hold the Eldership of that Congregation may judge, and sometimes judges in effect completely, and entirely.  
But ye propound a  Objection: The Eldership so combined cannot challenge authority over the Churches they feed not.  
Answ. 1. We have answered, That our Eldership challengeth no such authority to itself. 2. That this argument striketh no less at your judgements of Neighbour Churches against Particular Congregations, then at that of combined Elderships, against a Particular Church; since your Neighbour Churches feed no more that particular Congregation, than our combined Elderships a particular Church.  
2. We deny that our Classes, and Synods, or (as ye call them) combined Presbyteries, or Elderships, feed not particular Congregations, for they govern them, which is a certain sort of feeding, due to Elders; and in this signification Kings, Princes, and Dukes are called Pastors, or feeders of their People, because they rule them, Jor. 6.3. and 12 10.  
But to bring more light to this captious Proposition, and all fallacious Arguments that may be grounded hereupon, here I will more fully declare, in what sense these Propositions may be true, or false, viz. 1. The combined Eldership hath power to feed, rule, and teach the Church, or all Particular Churches. 2. The combined Eldership feedeth, or ruleth all Particular Churches. 3. The Elders of the combined Eldership have power to feed, or rule Particular Churches.  
And for this effect, note, 1. That the feeding, or teaching of the Church may be taken, either in actu secundo, for actual feeding, or the exercise of the power of feeding, as when a Preacher teaches actually, etc. 2. In actu primo, for the moral power, which Ministers have to teach in virtue of their Vocation, and Mission to their Charge, and Admission into it. So the Power to feed (howsoever it signify formally the Actum primum, as ruling Actum secundum) may be taken in Actu primo, for the Power, that a Minister hath to feed; or in Actu secundo, for the Act of feeding, proceeding from the power, or first act. 3. Item, in Actu signato, when a power, or an act is signified to belong to a thing, that exerciseth not the act; as when a King commands, but putteth it not in execution: or in actu exercito, when it is exercised: so particular Officers have the power, in actu exercito, which the King, and superior Judges, and Magistrates have in actu signato.  
3. That the Ministers, or Elders of the Eldership may be considered in quality of a collective body of Elders; or severally every one apart; which the Schoolmen call ordinarily collectiuè, & distributiuè. If severally, then either Absolutely, without any relation to the collective body of the Eldership, and in quality of particular Ministers of their own Particular Churches; or with some relation, or respect to the collective body, or combination of the Eldership, viz. as parts thereof.  
4. The whole collective body of the Eldership may be taken, either formally, as it is a collection of sundry Elders, according to the Order established in the Church, representing many Churches combined, and consociated, from which they have their Commissions; or materially in quality of Ministers, or Elders, of whom the Consociation, or Combination, or Synod, or Classical Assembly of Elders is compounded.  
5. Both the collective body, or consociation of Elders, which is a representative body of many Churches, as also every particular real Church, and the whole Militant Church, may be considered (as other things) aut ut Totum simpliciter, aut ut Totum, & totaliter; either as a Totall, or Totally, as a Whole or wholly; so may we say of omne, it may be taken simpliciter pro omne, vel pro Omni, & omnino, vel omni modo: this word All, may be taken absolutely for all, or for all, considered all manner of ways, or altogether.  
Then a Totum is taken totaliter, or totally, or a whole thing wholly, and this word All, all ways, when it is taken, according to all the Modifications, that it can have; As for example, Peter is a Totum, or a Whole-man, when he is lying in his Bed at Rome, he is Totus Romae, all, or whole at Rome; but not Totaliter, totally, not wholly, or all ways; for he may sit, and stand at Rome; and when he is lying, he is not according to these other ways, and Modifications, viz. standing, etc. Yea, I may say, that it is impossible, That at one time a Totum be, or exist in one place totum, & totaliter. i e. Secundum omnes suos modes possibiles, multi enim divisim sunt possibiles sed conjunctim incompossibiles; A whole thing cannot be wholly, or all ways, or according to all its possible Modifications; for many of them severally, or apart are possible, which conjunctly are incompossible, (if I may so express myself) or rather impossible: So a man may be white, and he may be black; but he cannot be white, and black together, for these two qualities, being contrary, are impossible, or incompatible one with another.  
If then feeding either by way of teaching, or ruling; or the power to feed, be taken in actu primo, viz. for the faculty to feed, this Proposition, The combined Eldership or a Classical, or Synodall Assembly, and every particular Elder considered apart, and separated from the combined Presbyteries have power to feed, teach, or rule, all particular Churches, is true. And as for the particular Elders (which may seem the most absurd) it appeareth clearly; for if they had it not how could ye, or they, Preach in sundry, and divers particular Churches, as ye do, out of your own particular Churches? If it be answered, that ye do it only Occasionally, and not Ordinarily:  
I reply, That before ye can do it either Occasionally, or Ordinarily, ye must have a power to do it absolutely; for actus secundus supponit primum, the second act supposeth the first; or all actions suppose some active power, from whence they proceed; for a man, that is no Minister can neither Preach Ordinarily, nor Occasionally.  
Item, It is a certain Maxim in Logic, that a Parte in modo ad Totum argument amur affirmatiuè, ut, est homo albus, Ergo, est homo. We argue from a modified part, or taken with some limitation, or modification to the whole; as if I say, this is a white man; Ergo, this is a man: So I say, this man may Preach occasionally; Ergo, this man may Preach, or have Authority to Preach; For Power or Authority to Preach, is Totum in modo, and Power, or Authority to Preach occasionally, or ordinarily, are parts in modo.  
If it be objected, That if every particular Minister hath Power or Authority to Preach in every Church, or Congregation, than every Minister is an universal Pastor, as the Apostles: But so it is not. Ergo.  
Answ. I deny the Consequence of the first Proposition, for an Apostle not only hath an universal Vocation to teach all particular Churches, and Flocks, but also to teach all particular, and ordinary Pastors, or Ministers of all particular Churches, and Flocks. 2. Item, The Vocation of the Apostles was immediately from God. 3. They were infallible in Doctrine. 4. Endowed with extraordinary Gifts. 5. They had no particular Mission, to restrain them to any particular Church; And these four last Conditions were most conveniently annexed unto the Universality of their Charge, which cannot be said of ordinary, and particular Ministers.  
If it be replied, At least they differ not from them in the Universality of their Charge, but only in some Accidents, as in Infallibility, some extraordinary Gifts, etc. that are merely Extrinsecall unto the Charge, and to the Universality thereof.  
I answer, First, That these Accidents are not merely Extrinsecall unto the Universality of the Apostolical Charge, but Intrinsically annexed unto it, by God's Ordinance, by Congruity, and Morally; since it could not be Universally exercised without them.  
Secondly, For the better clearing of this, I observe, That to the Charge of a Minister, three things are necessary. 1. A general Vocation to Preach, and that not unlike to that, which Masters of Arts, and Doctors receive in Universities, with this clause, Hic, & ubique terrarum, to Teach here, and through all the World. 2. A special Mission, either 1. by God alone; or 2. or also from the Representative Church. 3. A particular Election, and Admission, whereby the Minister is elected by a Real particular Church, and so admitted therein to exercise his Charge.  
The first of these three is common to the Apostles, with all ordinary Ministers: The second is universal in the Apostles, for Christ sent them to teach all Nations, and sitted them with gifts convenient thereunto; But it is particular in Particular, and Ordinary Ministers, for order's sake, and that jure divine, as many learned, and godly Divines hold: The third, jure divine, should be universal, in respect of the Apostles; for every Particular Church was bound to admit the Apostles, in case they would have preached amongst them; and if any should have refused them, yet in virtue of their general Vocation, and universal Mission from God, they had power, and Authority to Preach among them, and in them all; But in Particular, and Ordinary Ministers it is only Particular, and not Universal; for neither doth every Particular Church choose, elect, or admit every Ordinary Minister to be its Minister, neither is it bound so to do.  
The first of these three is the remote foundation, or the remote, and principal cause of the Power, and Authority that a Minister hath to Preach, or to rule the Church of God: The second and third are the next, and immediate foundation, or cause thereof, or conditio sine qua non; viz. The universal Mission, and Admission of Ministers, is the immediate cause of their universal Power, and Authority; but the particular Mission, and Admission is the immediate cause of the Power, and Authority of Particular Ministers: And as we never find the Philosophers Particularia, without their Vniversalia in Particularibus inclusa, never a Genus but in some Species, nor a Species but in some Individuum, by whose Differences their indifferent Nature is limited, and determined; No more find we over this vast, and general Vocation in Ordinary Ministers without this Particular Mission of some Representative Church, and Admission in, and by some Real, and Particular Church, or at least it should not be; for without this consent Election, and Admission, a Minister is no more its Minister, than a Man is a Woman's Husband without her consent. Neither can a Man be married to a Woman in general, or to an Individuam vagam, but to this, or that Particular Woman, with whom he contracteth: No more can a Preacher be sent to Preach to the Church in general, or to Particular Churches indefinitely, viz. Unto quaedam Ecclesia, but to this Church distinctly.  

1. And so I answer, that a Particular and Ordinary Minister is differenced from an Universal Minister, or an Apostle by the Particularity of his charge, in virtue of his Particular Mission, which he hath of God, by a Representative Church, and of his Particular Election, and Admission, which depend upon that Particular Real Church, whose Minister he is, and not in virtue of his general Vocation, which is common unto both, Nam Principium convenientiae non est Principium differentiae, That wherein things do agree cannot distinguish, or make them differ.  
2. Every particular, or Ordinary Minister may feed, teach, and rule all the Church, but not always, Totam militantem Ecclesiam, sed non totaliter, All particular Churches, but not particularly, for (as we have said) he may teach in every Church, because he may Preach in them, being invited thereunto; but he cannot Teach in them all, always, in every particular way, by way of a Particular, and Ordinary Mission, and Admission, as their Particular Pastor: For neither is he called to Teach in them all, neither can he rule them all conjunctim in one time, but one only Ordinarily, and two, or three Extraordinarily in case of some urgent necessity.  
3. Yea, we may say, That a Particular Minister cannot evermore, neither doth he evermore feed his own Particular Church, totam, & totaliter, the whole Church, wholly, as Experience teacheth us, but sometimes he feedeth it one way, sometimes another, sometimes in teaching, sometimes in ruling, etc.  
4. It may be said, That the consociated, or combined Presbyteries, and Presbyters rule all the Churches, from which they have Commission. 1. In quality of Particular Ministers, as we have already declared. 2. In a Particular way in virtue of their Commission from Particular Churches, in whose name they appear, and in virtue of their Admission in a Classical or Synodall Assembly; but not in sensu diviso, every one apart, for if they descent in their voices from the major part of the Assembly, they feed no Church at all, at least actually, and in actu exercito, howsoever they may be said to rule them all, that be subject to that Assembly, potentia, & in actu signato.  
5. The whole collective, or combined Presbytery, or Eldership, being-taken collectively, or as combined, ruleth many Particular Churches, that are subject unto it. I say being taken, as combined or collectiuè; for if the Presbyters of the Assembly be taken distributiuè; they are not an Assembly, not a Collection, or Combination of Presbyters formally, but several Presbyters apart, and divers unities, which are the matter of this combination, and consociation in the Assembly.  
6. Those whole combined Presbyteries, qua tota, sed non qua tataliter considerata, as whole, or totals, but not considered totally, feed in any Particular Churches: The first part is certain, for they judge of Points of Doctrine, and Discipline already, revealed in Holy Scripture, and give us new Ecclesiastical Laws of things indifferent, and so Teach, and Rule the Churches, which is nothing else but to Feed them.  
7. Yet these combined Presbyteries being considered totally, viz. according to every respect, every part, every modification, and determination they can have, rule them not; for every one of the Combined Presbyteries have not this Power; For as we have said, 2.3 4. or 5, etc. may descent from the major part, and in that case they rule not in the Assembly, muchless rule they out of the Assembly, being considered, as Material parts thereof, and the reason is because, Non quic quid convenit Toti per accidens, aggregato, confuso, vel ordinato, id convenit singulu partibus; it is not needful that whatsoever belongeth, or is attributed to the collective body, should be attributed to every part thereof, so ten is twice five, which cannot be said of five, which is a part of ten; for it is not twice, but once five.  
8. Neither can these combined Presbyteries, or Elderships taken materially. 1. i.e. before their combination feed many Churches, as when they are combined; for in that sense they are not formally a combination, or a collective body, but the matter thereof, and therefore to them cannot belong that, which belongeth unto the collective body formally, or in virtue of its form.  
9 The collective, or combined body of divers Presbyteries feeds not many real Particular Churches in actu exercito, as if they exercised actually the act of feeding them in a particular way, as their Particular, and Ordinary Ministers do; but in actu signato, in signifying and representing unto them all, in virtue of their Commissions, by their Judgements, and Laws, what should be done by them all; which these Particular Ministers do in actu exercito, and in a more special way: And the reason of this is, because, if it were not so we should confound the charge of combined Presbyteries, with that of one Presbyter.  
10. This Proposition may yet receive this sense; All the combined Presbyteries feed all the particular Churches, that they represent. 1. All the Presbyters together feed, and rule all Churches together as combined. 2. In this combination, or collection of Presbyters, or Elders, every one of the Presbyters, or Elders, feedeth his own Church. 3. All the collective body of combined Elders feed every Church apart; as we said before. 4. Every Presbyter, or Elder in this combination ruleth all Churches, as we have declared it also. 
1 Eth. ad Nicomach. c. 1.  So the Philosophers in expounding that Maxim, Bonum est, quod omnia appetunt, that is good which all things desire, give us almost the like interpretations, viz. 1. All good things taken collectively, are those, that all desirers taken collectively do desire. 2. That every one in this collection of desirers desireth his own good in the collection of all good; as a man, man's good; a horse, that which is good for a horse, etc. 3. That the whole collection of desirers desireth every good, as it serveth for every part, and so for the total, or whole, that consisteth of the parts. 4. That every desirer apart desireth, or loveth the whole collection of good, insomuch as in that collection of good, it findeth its own good.   
But none of these senses approved by us, can serve our Bethrens. More might here have been said, and I hope that others, God willing, shall say more; But this may suffice for one Annotation, and I am assured, will sufficiently dissolve all their Arguments hitherto, founded upon this Proposition.  
About the end of this 15 §. Ye say [That this challenge of all spiritual power from Christ, had need have a clear patent from Christ,] and that noted by a Particular Parenthesis, as very considerable; so had your Independent, and Omnipotent power within your Particular Congregations: Neither do our Synods challenge all power, but a Ministerial Power, such as we have already expounded: Neither needs it any Patent expressly, and formally from Christ: It sufficeth that it have one from Nature, for that sufficeth to bind us all unto obedience; for Christ as Mediator, and head of the Church is not represented unto us in Scripture as Author of Nature, but of Grace, For the Law was given by Moses, but grace, and truth came by Jesus Christ, who is Mediator of a better Covenant; Neither came he to abrogate, or destroy, but to fulfil, and to accomplish the Law; The Author of grace poseth not, but presupposeth the Law of Nature; And yet we can show a Patent for it, not only from the Law of Nature, which should suffice, but also from the Law of Grace, in the Old, and New Testament.  
Immediately after ye say, That nothing was written upon this Subject before the Books set forth by two Divines of Scotland, one of England, and others of Holland. Here ye mistake, for we can produce you sundry others of good note, here Printed at London; we are sorry ye have not seen them, or disdained to read them. If there were not many written before those, it was in pity of your afflictions, whereunto good Divines would not add new affliction; Neither thought they your Party so considerable; Neither were your Opinions much known or published abroad, being only written in English, and not in Latin, except by one, or two of your Divines, for any thing I know: Neither thought they that ye were so averse from their Discipline, as ye appear in this Assembly, but that ye suffered only for not conforming yourselves unto Episcopal Government: But whatever they have written, I know not what this can serve to the purpose, unless it be to declare, That whatsoever helps ye had heretofore, yet ye were destitute of those writings, whereby ye might have received farther light concerning Presbyterial Government; and I pray God ye make good use of them.  
In the 16. §. at the end of the 16. Pag. Ye travel to remove an Objection, viz. That in congregational Government (such as is amongst you) there is no allowed sufficient remedy for miscarriages, though never so gross; no relief for wrongful Sentences, or Persons injured thereby; no room for Complaints: No Powerful, or Effectual means to reduce a Church, or Churches, that fall into Heresy, or Schism, etc.  
To avoid this Objection, ye relate us an History § 17. and what ye did upon such an emergent case: But ye show us no Law, that ever ye had amongst you, whereby ye might bring any remedy against such a miscarriage before that it fell out. 2. Neither read we of any such Law, or remedy in your Books, before this. 3. Your Divines, and the Members of your Churches, with whom we conversed, shown no remedy amongst you for such inconveniencies. 4. They gave us no answer unto this Objection, save only this, That God hath ordained no remedies in such Cases; Yea, that if Churches should fall away from Christ, and with the Jews, call him an Impostor, and the Trinity with Servet a three headed Cat, and deny the Incarnation of the Son of God, they should be tolerated; Yea more, That the Civil Magistrate should punish no man for his Religion, be it never so bad, or blasphemous; and that it must be left to God; And this giveth us reason to think, That these Reasons, within these two years, have made you to refine your Opinion, and to mould some new Solutions, and to suit your Opinions more close to the current of the time, than you were wont to do. If therefore we speak after them, it is their fault, and not ours; it may be, that your Opinion be not common to you all, but to you five alone.  
The sum of the History is, A Minister was suddenly deposed by his Flock, whereupon some Churches did take offence, and all their Churches consented in this Principle, That Churches, 
1 Cor. 10.32. 1 Tim. 5.22.  as well as particular men, are bound to give no offence, neither to Jew, nor Gentile, nor the Churches of God they live among: Item, That in virtue of the same, or like Law of not partaking in other men's sins, the Churches offended, may, and aught, upon the Impenitency of those Churches, persisting in their error, and miscarriage, to pronounce that heavy sentence against them, of withdrawing, and renouncing all Christian Communion with them, until they do repent; And further to declare, and protest this, with the causes thereof, to all Christian Churches of Christ, that they may do the like.  
In this Narration it appeareth. 1. That this Church offending, before this emergent Case, knew not so much, for if she had, it is not credible, that she would, against all charity, and the common order of all Churches, have committed so great a scandal.  
2. This remedy is not sufficient, nor satisfactory. 1. Because all Churches, according to your Tenets, be equal in Authority, Independent one of another, and par in parcm non habet Imperium, none hath power, or Authority over his equal; how then could any Church bind another to any such account, but out of its freewill, as a party may do to its party.  
3. Because since other Churches were, or pretended to be offended in such a proceeding, they could not judge in it; for than they should have been both judge, and party in one cause, which cannot be granted to those, that have no Authoritative Power one over another, as when a private man offendeth the State, and we our God.  
4. What if many Churches, yea all the Churches, should offend one, should that one Church gather all the rest together, judge them all, and in case of not submitting themselves to her judgement, separate herself from them all? If so, we should have Separations, and Schisms enough, which should be continued to all Posterity to come.  
5. What if Churches were so remote one from another, that they could not easily meet together upon every occasion? Then there should be no remedy, or at least not easy remedy.  
6. What if the Offence were small, should so many Churches for every trifle gather together, and put themselves to so great cost, and trouble?  
7. What if the Churches in their Judgements should differ one from another, in such a case should they all by Schisms separate themselves one from another?  
8. This sort of Government giveth no more Power, or Authority to a thousand Churches over one, then to a Tinker, yea to the Hangman over a thousand, for he may desire them all, out of charity, to give an account of their Judgement, in case he be offended by them; Neither see I what more our Brethren grant to all the Churches of the World over one.  
But the Presbyterial Government is subject to none of these inconveniencies, for the collective, or combined Eldership, having an authoritative Power, all men, and Churches thereof, are bound by Law, and Covenant to submit themselves thereunto: Every man knoweth their set times of meeting, wherein sundry matters are dispatched, and all things carried by plurality of voices, without any Schism, or Separation.  
9 This Government is a Power, wherein the Party is judged if he will, and so the judgement of the Judges suspended upon the judgement of the Party judged, which is most ridiculous, without any example in Ecclesiastical, or Civil Judicatories; a judgement indeed not very unlike to that which is related of a merry man, who said he had the best, and most obedient wife of the whole World, because (saith he) she willeth nothing but what I will, and as all men wondered at it, (knowing her to be the most disobedient) yea (saith he) but I must first will what she willeth, else she willeth nothing, that I will.  
10. This sort of Government is unjust, and unreasonable, for not only the Party judgeth its Party, but also it inflicteth the same punishment, viz. Separation, upon all offending Churches, what ever be the offence, great, or small in case of Non-satisfaction, whereas all punishments should be commensurate unto the several offences.  
11. And so ye seem to approve the opinion of the Stoics, who held all sins to be equal, since ye inflict the same punishment upon them all.  
12. Not only this Discipline cannot easily be put in execution in great Kingdoms, as England, wherein all the Churches offended, cannot so easily meet together, but also 13. Because the person offended after he hath represented his grievances unto one Church, and that Church having received satisfaction, it may go to another, and that Church likewise having received satisfaction, it may go to another, and so continually in infinitum to the World's end, evermore taking those Churches for the Party that judge it, which is most absurd and foolish.  
14. What if the Party offended be poor, and have not the means to post up and down from Neighbour-Church to Neighbour-Church, to pray them to make the offending Church to give an account of her Judgement, muchless to attend upon their uncertain conveniency: Here will be found true, Pauper ubique jacet, whereas in Presbyterial Government the Party offended may easily be redressed, and get satisfaction, as not having need so to post up and down, to be at so great charges, or to attend their conveniency, for by a simple Appeal he may bind the Church offending, to appear at the day appointed.  
15. What if there should fall out an hundred such Offences in a small time? Must so many Churches evermore gather together for every one of them apart?  
16. What if Churches be poor, and cannot be at so great expense? Then in that case, it should seem, there is no order to meet with Offences.  
And as for those precepts, 1 Cor. 10. and 1 Tim. 5. The first of them is not a Rule of Government, or ruling of the Church, but a general command, common to all Christians, whereby the Apostle forewarns the Corinthians in things indifferent, not to give any occasion of Offence unto the Church of God, or to any other; but therein to comply with all men, as he doth himself: From whence ye cannot draw a Rule, or Law of ruling the Church, or how the Church should take order with such Offenders; so that it showeth, indeed, every man's duty towards the Church, in things indifferent; but not the Church's duty towards every one of them, in judging or ruling. Ye might as well have proved it from this Principle, Fly from all evil; or from that, We must love God above all things, and our Neighbour as ourselves: neither see I any greater connexion that it hath with the one, then with the other. And truly I cannot sufficiently admire, how out of that Principle, Give no offence, ne to any man, ye can infer this conclusion, Ergo, a Church offended may make a Church offending to give an account of her judgement before all the world; and in case of impenitency, pronounce a Sentence of withdrawing, and renouncing all Christian Communion with her; and further to declare it to all other Churches.  
No more can it be inferred of the other, viz. Be not partakers in other men's sins; for the Apostle there giveth rules about the Vocation of Ministers, forbiddeth Timothy to receive any man rashly into the Ministry, lest in so doing he be the cause of an unlawful Vocation, because, saith he, vers. 24. their sin, and incapacity will soon appear to all men. But how is it possible out of this to spin out the former Couclusion?  
§ 18. Pag. 17, ye prove your former Conclusion thus: 1. For that ye saw no further authority in Scripture in proceed purcly Ecclesiastical, of one or many sister Churches towards another whole Church, or Churches offending. 2. Because no other Authority can rationally be put in execution without the Magistrates power.  
Answ. 1. Ye saw no more in Scripture; yea, but saw ye your own Conclusion in Scripture? 2. Truly we see no Word of God for it; and if we take it not upon your word, we shall never take it. 3. If ye see no Scripture for it, yet others may see. 4. Ye may, if ye will, see it in the ordinary Practice of the Church of the Jews in the old Testament, which is not abrogated in the New, since it is not Ceremonial, but grounded in the Law of Nature: Ye may see it in the History of the New Testament, in the judgement given out at the Synod of Jerusalem, concerning the business of Antiochia; which I hope, ye shall see clearly demonstrated to you by a better hand, before it be long.  
6. It may be proved by the Law of Nature, which is a praecognitum to Scripture, and supposed by Scripture; for Grace is not destructory of Nature, but a Superstructory above Nature: So that when Scripture containeth nothing contradictory to the Dictates of Nature, we are bound to believe them, unless we will misbelieve God, who is no less the Author of Nature, and of the Dictates thereof, then of Grace.  
2. Because no other Authority can rationally be put in execution, without the Civil Magistrates power.  
Answ. 1. Our Brethren here, as every where else, stand very stiffly to Negations; They never prove any positive Doctrine; and it is known in the Schools, how easy a thing it is to deny all things, and to prove nothing: If they had that to prove, wherein they agree with us, I suppose they should have more to do, than we to prove that, wherein they disagree from us.  
But to take away all mistakes, and captious Evasions, we suppose that our Churches arrogate to themselves no Imperial, or Magisteriall, but only a Ministerial Power, or Authority. 2. That it is merely Spiritual, consisting 1. in the Creation, Suspension, and Deposition of Church-Officers. 2. in determining matters of Doctrine. 3. in making of Ecclesiastical Laws, concerning things indifferent. 4. in Ecclesiastical Censures, as in Suspension, Excommunication, etc.  
They prove, That no more can rationally be put in execution, viz. then to call an offending Church to an account; and in case of her impenitency, to declare it to all other Churches.  
Answ. We deny the Assumption. They prove it, for that Christ gave no power to Churches to excommunicate their neighbour Churches.  
Answ. 1. This is again another mistake in our Brethren, for they suppose, that we excommunicate whole Churches, which we never do. 2. Neither believe I, that they can bring us any examples of it: The reason why we do not so, is, Because whole Churches ordinarily amongst us, contemn not the superior Ecclesiastical Power, viz. of Synods, being bound by their Oath, and Covenant, to observe, and maintain the Order of the Church. 3. And therefore we have no Ecclesiastical Laws concerning such cases, for Lex est ordinatio rationis, and Laws are not made of things that never fall out, or of things that fall out extraordinarily, but of things that are ordinary 4 Much less think I, that ever any such case did fall out in any one of the Reformed Churches. Item, it is another mistake, to suppose, that there is no Excommunication, but in giving the offender over to Satan: That is indeed the highest degree of Excommunication, but not all the degrees of it; for there is another less, and inferior, viz. in separating him from Ecclesiastical Communion: And so it is yet another mistake in you to think, that in declaring your non-Communion with other Churches, ye do not excommunicate them; for what is Excommunication, but a privation of communion; the very word itself teacheth us all this.  
6. If any such Case should extraordinarily fall out, how can it be denied, but that the particular Church offending might be excommunicated by the rest of the Churches offended, if the offence should deserve it. 1. For we find nothing in Scripture to the contrary. 2. For there is the same reason for the Excommunication of whole Churches, as of particular persons, viz. the taking away of scandal, and the conversion of the sinner, 1 Cor. 5.5. 2 Cor. 2.7. 2 Thes. 3.14. 1 Tim. 1.20. and that such a contagion infect not others, 1 Cor. 5, 6, 7. And if a particular man may be excommunicated for denying, and blaspheming of Christ, wherefore shall not a particular Church be excommunicated for the like sin? Neither can their number and consociation excuse them, but rather aggravateth the sin; for the more offenders there be, the greater is the offence, and the greater should the punishment be.  
3. If a Church compounded of ten persons may excommunicate four of their own number, wherefore also may not ten thousand Churches excommunicate this inconsiderable Church, compounded of ten persons, for the same reasons that it excommunicateth four persons? hath God given more power to ten persons over four, then to all the persons, and Churches in the Kingdom, yea in all the Christian world, over these miserable, and wretched persons, who (it may be) deny the Trinity, the Incarnation of the Son of God, and maintain all sort of impieties?  
4. If God in Heaven, and in his Scripture declare a Church excommunicated, wherefore shall not his Churches upon Earth also declare it excommunicated, when they learn it in his Word? Are not the Churches of God as well bound to ratify his Sentence here upon Earth, as he to ratify theirs in Heaven?  
5. We have some examples of it in the Old Testament; for the people of God (say some of our Divines) excommunicated Amalck; for proof whereof, they bring the Targum, Cant. 2. Contriverunt Amalek per diram imprecationem, They bruised Amalek by the fearful cursing of the Lord. So did they the Samaritans, because of the building of their Temple upon the Mount Garizim. They brought (as Drusius, and after him Weemse, relate it) 300 Priests, 300 Trumpets, 300 Books of the Law, and 300 Boys; They blew with Trumpets, and the Levites singing, accursed the Cutthaans' in the Name of Totragammaton, or Jehova, and with curses both the superior, and inferior house of Judgement; and they said, Cursed is be, who eateth the bread of the Cutthaean. These Curses they wrote upon Tables, and sealed them, and sent them thorough all Israel, who multiplied also this great Anathema upon them; from whence proceeded a great hatred betwixt them, as we read in the Gospel.  
If in virtue of a small offence one Church may pronounce that dreadful Sentence of non-Communion, against many Churches, wherefore may not many Churches pronounce Sentence of great Excommunication against one small Church, for a great sin? since crescentibus delictis crescunt poenae.  
Besides all this, I deny the consequence; for howbeit God had not ordained Excommunication, viz. the greater, which here ye understand, yet might there be some other remedy found by the light of Nature.  
But ye add, p. 18. That your Sentence of non-Communication will be as effectual as the greater Excommunication.  
This cannot be, 1. Because, if the offender have any grace, the greater will terrify him more. 2. Because in your way the Sentence may seem unjust, in punishing all offences, and Offenders, greater and smaller with the like Spiritual penalties. 3. Your way cannot so well awe Churches, and keep them in their duties; for since ye attribute no authoritative power, or authority to all the Churches of Christ over any particular Church, but judge them all to be equal amongst themselves, and one to all; as if a part were equal to its total, and pars esset aequalis Toti, & Totum non esset majus quilibet suâ parte, as if the part were equal to its whole, and the whole were no greater than its part, viz. a whole man's body then his toe; a particular Church may think herself no ways bound to obey any other Church, or Churches: and much less will ten Churches think themselves bound to obey one; for Obediecce is a virtue in Inferiors towards their Superiors: But if all Churches be equal, there can neither be Superiors, nor Inferiors, and consequently no obedience, or disobedience.  
4. If a particular Church, in your way, desire to be obeyed by forty Churches, pretending herself to be offended by their proceed, they may think her bold, in calling them to an account, and that the spirits of Prophets should be subject to Prophets, one rather to twenty, or two thousand, than twenty, or two thousand to one.  
5. In our way, a Church offending may esteem her offence greater, and fear it more, since she may judge herself to offend two Authorities, 1. that of God, and 2. that which he hath given unto the Church: but in yours she cannot think her offence so great, since she conceives herself to offend one authority, or authoritative Power only, viz. that of God; for ye acknowledge no authoritative power in the Church, or Churches, and so your way breedeth a plain contempt of all Church Authority.  
6. In denying an authoritative power, the offender may think you too busy bodies in intermeddling yourselves with other folk's matters, which concerns you not so much; whereas, if ye granted an authoritative power unto her, it should be her own proper business, in virtue of her authoritative power received from God.  
So also our way is more efficacious in the Churches offended; 1. in breeding a greater detestation of sin: 2. in making them to shun and avoid more the company of the offender. 3. in making them to conceive the Sentence to be more just, etc.  
Item, if this your way be as efficacious, ye need no other power, in your particular Congregations, over particular persons; a simple admonition, without any authoritative power, may suffice you.  
Ye yet say, That your way is more brotherly in proceeding without an Authoritative power.  
Answ. God in the Old Testament ordained an Authoritative power in the Church, and yet they were all Brethren; and he knew well enough what power was convenient for Brethren.  
2. So likewise in particular Congregations we are all Brethren, neither yet will ye banish out of them all Authority.  
3. 
2 Kin 6.21. 1 Cor 14, 15 2 Cor. 6 13. and 12.14. Gal 4 19 1 Thes 2.11 1 Tim. 1.2. Tit. 1.4. Phillip 2.10. 1 joh. 2.1.28 and 3.7 and 4.4.  The Ministers, and the Elders are not only our Brethren, but also our Fathers; Ergo, they must as well use paternal authority over us, as brotherly charity towards us.  
4. So also combined Presbyteries, or (as it were) Fathers of simple Presbyteries, because of their greater power to judge.  
5. The like of this Government hath never been heard of in the world, neither in State, nor Commonwealth before; and therefore seemeth it to us to be repugnant unto the Law of Nature; for what else is the Law of Nature, but the common consent of all men? How absurd therefore is that Government, so destitute of all authority? have the sheep as great authoirty, as the Shepherd? if so, it is as good to be a sheep as a Shepherd.  
6. If an Authoritative power cannot hold in the Church, or among Churches, because that we are all Brethren, and Sisters, no more can it hold in the State betwixt King, and Subject; the father, and the son; the master, and the servant; for we are all Brethren in Christ: so this Foundation, or Groundwork, will destroy all sort of Political, and Domestical Authority. Our Brethren would do well also to consider, whether their Grounds, or those of our Government, will better consist with the Authority of the civil Magistrate; for, according to this reason, a King in a State should have no power at all over his Brother.  
7. In the State there be divers Judicatories, Superior, and Inferior, wherein the Superior hath an authoritative power over the inferior. Ergo, in the Church, since there is the same reason for both, viz. reparation of the offence taken at inferior Judicatories.  
But because ye will seem to be much addicted to the civil Magistrate, as if your Ecclesiastical Government were altogether subordinate unto his power, and blame us, as not giving him his due, which ye note by a particular Parenthesis, as if ye would have us to take particular notice of it; Therefore, before we end this Section, we shall be very willing to do it. In saying that the Presbyterial Excommunication is no more effectual than your Sentence of non-Communion, without the Magistrates Power, ye add this Parenthesis [To which we give as much, and [as we think] more than the Principles of the Presbyterial Government will suffer them to yield.] By whose counsel, or for what end this Parenthesis is inserted, and such a comparison made. I know not; If ye have no Political aims, I am assured ye comply very much with Policy. If ye grant him so much, ye would do well to declare how much, and wherein, and not to feed him with generalities, and Platonical Idees, as abstract here from all matter, as ye professed formerly your Church-Government was abstracted from all other Governments. It is a Maxim in Philosophy, and in Rhetoric both, That Sermons generales non movent; and praised be God that the King and Parliament are wise, and will not feed upon so abstract forms. As for us, since ye keep yourselves upon such generalities, it is impossible to us to answer any thing in particular, unless we guess at your meaning: In general therefore we say, 1. That amongst men well bred, all comparisons are odious. 2. That either ye give unto the civil Magistrate only his due, or something more: if only his due, ye lay a very heavy aspersion upon all Presbyterians, as if they were not good Subjects, in denying him a part of his due: If more, who gave you the power to do so? 3. Either ye grant him more in Civil, or in Spiritual matters: In Civil matters ye cannot; for ye can grant him no more, than he hath by the Laws of the Land, whereunto we are all equally subject; and therefore must grant him as much one, as another: If in Spiritual matters, we grant him his external power, as we declared in the beginning. And for intrinsecall Spiritual power, 1. It is not in your power to grant him any at all; neither can ye give him more Spiritual obedience than Scripture permitteth you, or give him a part of the Spiritual power that ye have received of God; for that were, to lay upon another the burden, that God hath laid upon you, and so serve God by a Proctor. 2. It is only in God, who is King in this Spiritual Kingdom, Master in this House, and a Father in this Family, who can give power therein to any man: we dare not be so bold: If ye pretend to do it; I say with the Comic Poet, de te largitor puer, be liberal upon your own purse. 4 If ye will do so, look how Authoritative is your power, who take Authority over God's Ordinance, and dispose of it, as if it were your own: so do not the Presbyterians. 5. The Civil Magistrate acknowledgeth himself to be a Political, and no Ecclesiastical person, since he is neither Pastor, nor Doctor, nor Ruling Elder in Christ's Church; and therefore arrogateth no Spiritual Authority to himself 6. We desire to know of you, Brethren, what ye understand here by the Magistrate, Whether the Supreme, or Subaltern? If the Supreme, whether the King, or Parliament? and principally at this time: If the Subaltern, we ask of you, Whether every Justice of Peace shall, or can judge of all Ecclesiastical matters? And if he cannot, whether he can be a competent Judge? 7. What if the Civil Magistrate be a Papist? what if some of the King's Council be Papists, or Heterodox, as some in the beginning of this Parliament were? will ye grant that they judge in matters of Religion? So the Turk, the Antichrist, and Pagans, shall judge in matters of Religion, amongst their Protestant Subjects: If so, our Protestants in France, in Polonia, and otherwhere, are in a very fair way; Its pity but such a Maxim should have been published in Queen Mary's time, and at Saint Bartholomews day in France, at that Butchery, or Massacre of Protestants. 8. The Apostle, 1 Cor. 6. finds fault with the Christians, that did plead before Infidels in civil matters: what then would he not have said, if godly men would have pleaded before them, and submitted matters of Religion unto their judgement? 9 This power that ye grant to the Magistrate, is either Internal, or Externall, in regard of the Church: If Externall we grant it, as well as ye: If Internal; then he must be an Ecclesiastical Person. And then 10. It should follow, That a Sovereign Prince should as well be Sovereign in the Church, as in the State; and so Internal head of both; which is derogatory to Christ's Royalty, as our Doctors have sundry times clearly demonstrated it against the Jesuits, and other Papists. 11. Women, that are commanded to be silent in the Church, should rule it, and command men in it, since they may be Sovereign Princes in it, and over it and so Leglise tomberoit on quenvillo: And if it be replied, wherefore may they not as well rule the Church, as the State, as some Independenters, and some Women, here in London, have maintained, in presence of their Preacher, uncontradicted by him, or any of that Profession there. I answer, 1. Because the Church or Kingdom of Heaven, is not a Kingdom of this Word. 2. Because God forbiddeth the one in Scripture, but not the other. 12. Christ's Kingdom, viz. His Church which is not of this World, should be subject to the Kings and Kingdoms of this World. 13. Yea, the Apostles should have been subject unto worldly Kings in Church Government, and so they should not have been the first Officers in the Church; but the King should have been above them, which is no less, then clearly to contradict. Saint Paul, Eph●s. 4. where he calleth them the first. 14 So woe Idly Princes could not be judged by any Church-Officers, for if they were supreme Judges, inferior Officers could not judge them. 15. A King usurping, or invading a Kingdom, should usurp Sovereignty in the Church. And 16. if he were a Tyrant, and obtained it jure belli, by the Sword, he should make himself Head of the Church by the Sword, which seemeth a very strange Conquest of Ecclesiastical Authority. 17. If a Prince should buy a Principality, and the Sovereignty thereof, he should consequently buy the charge to be supreme Ruler, or to be above the Church, as ye call it; so it should be a good Conquest, by good Simony. 18. So if a wicked Prince, should invade a good Prince, against God's Will, than he should be Head of Christ's Church, or supreme Judge over it, against Christ's Will, and that by an ordinary way, yea, jure divino, by Christ's Ordinance; if jure divino they be above the Church, as ye say. 19 If a Prince were perpetually mad, his perpetual madness should no more hinder him from being supreme Judge in the Church, than Prince in the State. 20. If a Prince were supreme Judge alone, then should he alone judge, yea, without his Counsel, as some Princes do arrogate unto themselves; and there should be the same Disputes about the Prince's supreme Authority in the Church, that are about it in the State. 21. God will have no man to be a Judge in his Church, but after examination, 1 Tim. 3. muchless a supreme Judge in it: But Kings are not examined, whether they have the capacity to rule, or not; and if the Prince be a little child, how can he have the capacity, or abide an examination. 22. If a King have any other, or more intrinsical Authority over the Church, than all Protestant Churches in France, Holland, and Scotland; grant him, or then we have declared, we pray you show us, what it is, and wherein it consisteth: Whether he hath it in quality of a King, of a Christian, or of a Christian King? If he hath it, in quality of a King, or as a King, than all Kings have it, yea, N●ro, and Julian the Apostate; Nam quod alicui comunit quà tali communit omni. And then I pray you, whether ye will admit such a Prince to judge of the Controversies of your Religion? If in quality of a Christian, than all Christians have it, for the same reason, yea every Cobbler as well as any King, or Prince, since they be all Christians. 3. If as a Christian Prince, than all Princes should have it: But so it is not; For what if we had a Christian Prince, who were a Lutheran, an Anabaptist, a Sociman, or a Papist? I cannot believe that ye would permit such Christian Princes to judge, muchless to be supreme Judges in your Religion: If ye say that ye understand an Orthodox Prince? What if he had one, or two errors, would ye yet permit him to judge of Ecclesiastical matters? Then who should judge, whether he were Orthodox, or not? Whether ye, or we? What if there were a hundred divers Sects in any Kingdom, Then he could only judge of that Sect, which he should profess, and of no other: Or if he should judge of all, he should condemn them all, but his own. If by the supreme Magistrate, ye understand a Parliament, then to judge every one of your differences, when ever any man challengeth the Church of an unjust judgement, or appealeth from it, we must gather a Parliament: Which if the King and Parliament find expedient, I have nothing to say against it; yet every man may judge, whether the dispatch of business can be so quick and cheap, as in the Presbyterian way? What if Parliament men be of different Religions, shall they of one Religion judge of the other Religion.  
I might bring more Arguments, and prosecute them all more fully; but this may suffice for Annotations: Only this I add. 1. That it is not equitable that ye five be believed upon your simple word, in so great an Aspersion, as ye lay upon so many Churches, yea all the best Reformed Churches, without any proof: If heretofore they gave you the right hand of fellowship, I doubt if after so criminal an accusation, they will continue it to you any longer. And here I cannot sufficiently admire you, in pretending your Church Government to be so complete, and perfect, and yet stand insomuch need of the Civil Magistrate.  
2. I pray the Reader to consider diligently. § 20. Pag. 20, 21. How by that Speech it appeareth. 1. That that Church pretended to have offended, did arrogate in disposing of her Minister, a power altogether independent from all other, both of the Civil Magistrate, and of all other Churches; Otherways that expression should have been impertinent. viz. That it was the most to be abhorred Maxim, that any Religion hath ever made profession of; and therefore of all other, the most contradictory, and dishonourable to that of Christianity, that a single, and particular society of men, professing the name of Christ, and pretending to be endowed with a power from Christ, to judge them, that are of the same body, and society within themselves, should further arrogate unto themselves an exemption from giving an account or being censurable by any other, either Christian Magistrate above them, or Neighbour Churches about them. For if she pretended no such power and exemption, to what purpose such an expression?  
2. That in this Ecclesiastical Judgement, that is intrinsecall to the Church, they acknowledge the Civil Magistrate to be above them, but all the Churches of the Christian World nothing but about them, whereof much may be said. Here ye symbolise with Erastus in many things.  
3. Ye may collect, that such a most abhorred Maxim was not the Maxim of that Church alone, but of some others also, for it is not credible, that she would have stood out alone in a Maxim so repugnant to the Tenets of all other Churches, and after wards submitted herself unto their judgement.  
4. Ye may see by the event and success of this business, a correction of that Maxim, wherewith they were tinctured before.  
5. How God in his most wise Providence has forced those good men, out of mere necessity, to come nearer unto Presbyterial Government, then formerly.  
6. But we know not, whether they of New-England, will stand fast to them in this decision.  
If we knew all the Circumstances of that proceeding, we might (it may be) say much more, then upon such a superficial, and unwilling Relation as ye make, we can say here.  
Again, I pray you note, That they acknowledge their Churches to be bound to give an account, and to be censurable by the Christian Magistrate, and Neighbour Churches, in their judgements. From whence I infer: Ergo, Their power is not full perfect, and complete, within themselves, but receives some correction, and perfection from that of the Civil Magistrate above them, or Neighbour Churches about them; But what is this, but an authoritative power to correct them, and to inflict on them spiritual punishments. viz. Censures, in commanding them to satisfy the Party offended, and to confess their fault: Neither do the Presbyterians pretend to inflict any corporal punishment, or pecuniary mulcts, since the aim of their Government is spiritual, viz. To save the soul, not to kill the body, or empty the purse by catching men's money.  
§. 22. Pag 22. Ye give an account of your proceed since your return to your Country: And here again, ye term the Reformation of the Protestant Churches by the name of Calvinian, as if this name in this matter pleased you above all others; yet will we not retaliate it unto you, in calling your Church's Goodwinians, Nyans, Bridgians, Burroughesians, Sympsonians, or Good-Ny Bridg-Burrough-Sympsonians, for we take no pleasure in such fictions.  
Afterwards ye give your five judgements, about that Reformation, viz. That our Churches stand in need of a further Reformation. 1. But stand not yours in need of some further Reformation also? 2. Neither is it in question, whether our Churches stand in need of any further Reformation? But whether they stand in need of that, which ye call Reformation? And if it be not rather a Deformation, than a Reformation of the Church of Christ?  
The Reasons of this your judgement, are grounded upon mere Possibilities, and generalities as we shall see God willing hereafter.  
The first is, Because it may be thought, that they coming new out of Popery, and the founders of that Reformation not having Apostolic infallibitie might not be fully perfect the first day.  
Answ. 1. It may be, but a poss● ad ●ss● non valet consequentia: 2. It followeth not, it may be: Ergo, It is. Neither will ye permit us to argue in this manner, Master Goodwin, Master Nays, etc. opinion may be false: Ergo, It is false. 3. muchless may it be thought, or imagined: Ergo, It is so. For we think all your Tenets, wherein ye descent from us, are false, and untrue; Neither will ye grant it for all our thoughts: No more will we grant you what ye pretend for all your thoughts, unless ye bring us some better reason; for many men's thoughts be erroneous, as yours in this particular. 4. Your Argument is a Genere ad Specicm affirmatiuè, ye argue affirmatively from a generality to a particular. viz. It might not be fully perfect or imperfect: Ergo, In this or that point it was not perfect, or imperfect. 5. Neither is it needful to a perfect Reformation, in Doctrine, or Discipline, that we have an Apostolical perfection, that is Personal, or tied unto our Person; but scriptural, viz. Revealed in Scripture, which we have, not of one, but of many Prophets, Evangelists, and Apostles. 6. This expression of yours, viz. Might not be fully perfect the first d●●, is ambiguous, and may be taken either Negative in putting the negation (not) before the principal Verb, viz. might; or Infinite, in putting of it, after the Verb, might, before the infinity Verb, be: In the first way, the sense of it is this,  
They that come new from Popery, without Apostolical infallibility, cannot be perfect the first day, or it was not possible they should be perfect the first day, and so it is evidently false; for it should imply a contradiction that any man, or Church could have a perfect Doctrine, or Discipline without an Apostolical infallibility, or a long time.  
In the second way, the sense is this,  
They that come new from Popery, without Apostolical infallibility may not be perfect, or it is possible they be not perfect, the first day; and so it is true: But as it is possible they be not perfect; so is it possible by God's mercy they be perfect: And so the Argument will proceed a posse ad esse, whereof Logicians say, Non valet consequentia. So your Argument is naught: Of these two Propositions the first is Negative, and the last Infinite: They differ as,  
Non possibile est esse  
Possibile est non esse.  
The one hath the Mood, or Modification Negative, the other the Subject, or Dictum Negative; the one is true, and the other false, as ye may see in these Examples.  

It was not possible to Adam before his fall to fall: False.  
It was possible to Adam before his fall not to fall: True. So.  
It is not possible that Peter sleep: False.  
It is possible that Peter sleep not: True.   
Neither doth time contribute so much, neither hath it any influence upon true Religion, which is a gift of God; Faith is not acquired by our labour, but infused into our understanding by God's Mercy. And yet we have had more time, and a greater number of able men than ye, to perfect our Reformation. And as it was possible, that the Reformation of our Church was not perfect the first day. So may it be possible that yours be not perfect, neither the first, nor the last day.  
But ye grant us, § 5. Pag. 4. That the first Reformers in Protestant Churches had a most happy hand in the Reformation of Doctrine, and that in the beginning, and without any Apostolical infallibility; wherefore I pray then, might they not also have it as well in Discipline, or Government? I remit the Reader to that Section and my Annotation thereupon.  
2. Your second Reason is grounded not only upon possibilities, but also upon hope, for it may be hopefully conceived (say ye) that God in his infinite mercy and purpose reserved, and provided some better thing for this Nation, when it should come to be reform, that the other Churches might not be made perfect without it, as the Apostle speaks.  
Answ. 1. This is but a possibile est esse, it may be, quod nihil ponit in esse, that maketh nothing to be: The question is not what may be; but what is in effect. 2. And as it may be, so may it not be. 3. It is not so much as a may be of any thing, that is to be, but a may be, or a possible hope of a thing, that may be: O how far is this Reason from proving the thing to be. 4 And as for that Text of the Apostle, Heb. 11.48. Ye abuse mightily the place of Scripture, or are abused; for it is not to be understood of you, or of your, or our Reformation; but of the coming of Christ, and the vocation of the Gentiles; for howsoever the Fathers in the old Testament received the Promises; yet received they not the accomplishment, or performance of them, viz. Christ manifested in the flesh, who is that better thing, reserved unto us, whereof the Apostle speaketh there, otherwise we should have perished.  
§ 23, 24 25, 26, 27. Containeth an Enumeration of our brethren's grievances, whereof they have mentioned many heretofore. 1. The mistaking, and misapprehension of their Opinions, wherein they might seem to differ.  
We have answered already. 1. It is not a mistake, nor misapprehension to take and apprehend an opinion as it is propounded by the Party, as we have done. 2. We answer, That if we mistake, or misapprehend any opinion, it is not that of all Independents. 3. It is a great mistake in you to imagine; that ye be all of one opinion; For ye five, who are the Authors of this Book cannot agree among yourselves, how muchless with others. 4. And we are assured, that ye cannot but mistake one another. 5. Here also must be noted your Parenthesis [wherein we might seem to differ.] Then your differences from us were not real, but apparent: If so, wherefore then will ye not really agree, and join yourselves in Union and Communion with us? And truly so it is, either they are not real, or they are really ridiculous.  
Pag. 23. Your second grievance is, that ye are grievously calumniated with reproaches of Schism: Schism is a Pertinacious Separation from the true Church after sufficient conviction: And as Heresy, as Heresy, is repugnant to Faith so is Schism to Charity; the one quitteth the unity of the Faith, the other the union in Charity: And as Heresy is evermore accompanied with pertinacy after sufficient conviction: So is Schism also.  
If therefore the Synod, or any other Assembly, or any of your Brethren should convict you sufficiently, and afterwards, ye should separate yourselves, or desire a separation from us, I think that no man could deny you to be Schismatics; neither believe I, in such a case, that ye would, or could honestly deny i● yourselves; But so long as the Synod, or some others does it not, I dare say nothing: As for myself, I believe truly, that ye be very Learned, Pious, and honest Men; and howsoever ye may fail by infirmity, yet believe I not, that ye err out of malice; and consequently, that ye are no Schismatics hitherto. And I hope, and am confident, that God will not permit, that so good, and godly men fall away from his Church. And this I say by moral probability, because of the good opinion I have conceived of you, by good men's relations, and some observation of your carriages, in the small conversation I have had with some of you. If therefore any men out of too much zeal, or others out of malice, have uttered any such aspersion, it is in your power, by entertaining of a Fraternal union with us to give them the lie, as I hope in God's mercy ye will do.  
§. 24. Pag. 24 25. But ye prove, That ye are not or cannot be Schismatics by three Reasons: The first is, If ye be Schismatics, or culpable of Schism, Either it must relate, say you, to a differing from the former Ecclesiastical Government of this Church established, and then who is not involved in it, as well as we? Or to that Constitution, and Government, that is yet to come; and until that be agreed on, established, and declared, and actually exist, there can be no guilt, or imputation of Schism from it: But none of these are true, as ye have confirmed it: Ergo.  
Answ. Howsoever I hold you not yet for Schismatics; yet can I not think, that ye prove it well: For that dis-junctive proposition may be denied, as not containing a full enumeration of all the Causes, or Reasons of Schism; for a Church may be Schismatical, not only for her Separation from this, or that Church, but much more for her Separation from all Churches, as your Accusers may say of you, viz. That ye have quitted the Communion of all other Churches, as well Protestants, as Papists; and that in case ye could not, or would not join in union with Churches ruled by Episcopal Government, ye might have joined yourselves with other Reformed Churches, with which the Church of England entertained Union, and Communion; so that the greater your Separation was, the greater was your Schism. Yet can it not be said, that it was a Schism formally, but materially, for it had not the essential form, or that which we conceive, as the essential form of a Schism, viz. Conviction, and Pertinacy, without the which Schism no more can be made up, than Heresy: For it is Forma quae dat esse rei, the Form that giveth being to a thing. Only it had the matter, or material cause of a Schism, viz. The Separation from all Churches, which cannot make up a Schism formally, no more than a man's body alone, which is his material cause, can formally make up a Man.  
2. Men may yet be called Schismatics, Materialiter & Dispositiuè, matterially, and dispositively, or as having the disposition to Schism, when they cannot actually resist an actual Government, but are resolved without any sufficient cause to resist, or control that Government, that they judge, will be established by them, who according to God's ordinary Providence have power to do it. And so your Party may yet say, that ye be culpable, and guilty of Schism materially, and by way of disposition, if they see you aim at any Toleration, which is the next way to Separation: So they may Answer unto the confirmations of both the parts of your dis-junctive Proposition in denying both your Assumptions; for many there be, who separated not themselves from all Protestant Churches, and that are not minded to oppose the form of Government, that is to be established, much less to be suitors for Toleration.  
Your second Reason to free yourselves from the calumny of Schism, is this in substance. § 24. Pag. 24.  

If ye had been guided by the spirit of Schism, ye had made up a Party, when ye had the occasion.  
But so did ye not, when ye had the occasion: Ergo.   
Ye prove the connexion of your first Proposition: Because such are practices of those, that are led by the spirit of Schism.  
Ye prove the Assumption. 1. Because, that howsoever, ye had great provocations, viz. 1. Misunderstandings of your opinions. 2. Incitements to this State, not to allow you the peaceable practices of your consciences, which the Reformed Churches abroad allowed you. 3. Calumnies in Print. 4. Heightened with this prejudice, that ye were ashamed of your opinions, or able to say little for them. 5. Books printed against your opinions, yet ye did it not. 2. Because, that having the occasion of manifold advantages to make, and increase a Party, ye have not in the least sort attempted it.  
Ye prove that ye had manifold advantages. 1. Because ye found the spirits of the people of this Kingdom, that profess or pretend to the power of godliness, ready to take any impressions, and to be cast in any mould, that hath but the appearance of a stricter way. 2. Because that the mists gathered about you, begun to scatter. 3. Because ye published not your opinions by Preaching, although ye had the Pulpits free; nor in Print, although the Presses were more free, than the Pulpits.  
Answ. Your Party will deny the Assumption; for if ye, and the rest of your Party made it not up, how is it made up in this Kingdom?  
As for the proof of your Provocations: We have answered already to the first: The third and fourth, we allow it not, if any man hath done so. To the second we shall answer hereafter. And as for the fifth, good Shepherds could not without an abominable prevarication, but writ against yours, and all other men's Innovations, when they saw so many Sects multiplied, and Wolveses creeping in so fast into Christ's Sheep-fold, to devour the flock. 2. If ye blame our faithful Ministers for maintaining the Truth already received, what shall we say of your folks, who have first published Books against the Truth. 3. What shall we say of those of your Colleagues, who heretofore preached your Tenets with great offence here in public? And who still run busily up and down, to make Proselytes.  
To the second proof your Assumption.  

1. We have already answered, that it is made, but how we know not.  
2. What were those people that profess, and pretend to any power of godliness, so ready to take any impression, and to make a Party, ye tell not? We wish to know, whether they be Brownists, Anabaptists, or of what other Sect?  
3. Your Covenant obligeth you to declare it unto the Parliament however, ye reveal it not unto us.  
4. Certainly true Professors of godliness are not so susceptible of any impressions, much less to become factious.  
5. And therefore ye add well (or pretend) for such men pretend only to godliness, but have renounced (in effect) the power thereof.   
Here we see, howsoever ye pretend not to be Statesmen, yet ye know as much of it as the Presbyterians.  
Your second occasion was the dissipations of mists, etc. If so, and only so; then what needed this Apologetical Narration?  
§ 25. Pag. 25. To the third occasion, whether ye had the Pulpits so free, or feared to have them less free afterwards, I dispute not, ye know that well enough: Only this I know, That some of your Brethren having given themselves liberty to speak somewhat freely in favour of your opinions, were afterwards discountenanced, and became more prudent, and circumspect in venting of themselves. If ye printed not your opinions, it may be, ye deal more prudently in teaching them in private, then in publishing them in Print. And here ye show how your Charity is grown cold; for in the beginning when so many mists were gathered about you, for fear of Schism out of meet Charity, ye abstained from writing, and now, when they are scattered ye writ.  
Your third Grievance is the reproach of that proud, and insolent title of Independency.  
Answ. Ye decline that proud Title, but will no ways quit the thing signified by the Title, in that, ye maintain the Independency of every one of your Churches from all Ecclesiastical Authority, or Authoritative Power of any Ecclesiastical Assembly; yea, some of your Profession say, That it belongs not to the Magistrate to punish any man for his Religion, be it never so odious, and wicked, as we have heard from their own mouths. So that there is another new Independency.  
If it be replied here, That I did prove before, that ye acknowledge some Ecclesiastical Authority, whereunto your particular Churches are subject.  
I answer, It is but by necessary consequence, that they must hold it, and not interminis, or expressly that they believe it; for they deny interminis, what they must grant by consequence: It is drawn out of the evasions, that they bring against our Reasons, whereby, whilst they seek to escape, they are catcht.  
Pag. 4. Your fourth Grievance, whereof ye complain, and bewal yourselves, is Brownism together with all their Opinions, wherewith ye are traduced.  
Answ. But ye disclaim not Brownism, and their Opinions, absolutely, but with a restriction and secundum quid, viz. As they have stated, and maintained them. 2. By another limitation, viz. That ye differ much from them, not in re, sed in modo rei: It may be, ye hold, and maintain the same opinions, but not the same way. And yet ye sympathise very much with them, in puining untoward names upon us, but not upon them.  
There also ye declare what ye confess, and believe, viz. The truth to lie in a middle way betwixt Brownism, and the Authoritative Presbyterial Government.  
Answ. But this is nothing, but your error: Verity consisteth not in the middle of this, or that which ye imagine, but in a conformity of our conceptions with their object, and due measure; which in this matter, is only God's Word revealed in the holy Scriptures; and according to this rule I take Presbyterian Government, rather to be the middle betwixt Popish Tyranny, and Independent Anarchy.  
§ 25. Pag. 25. Your fifth Grievance is Some incitements to this State, not to allow us (say ye) the peaceable practices of our Consciences, which the Reformed Churches abroad allowed us.  
Answ. If any man incited the State not to allow you a peaceable practice of your new Religion, they did according to their conscience, as your New-England men do with those of our Religion; and as some say, that some of you five would do with us.  
Their Reasons might have been these.  

1. Because it cannot but open a door to all sorts of erroneous Opinions.  
2. It is dangerous for the State, it may breed factions and divisions betwixt all persons of whatsoever relation, betwixt the Magistrate, and the Subject, the Husband, and the Wife, the Father, and the Son, Brethren, Sisters, the Master, and the Servant; when the one is of one Religion, or Ecclesiastical Government, and the other of another, as ye have experimented: The Son may refuse to receive any communion with the Father, and the Brother with the Brother, and so dissolve all natural, civil, and domestical bands of Society.  
3. No State in Christendom, where there is one only Religion established, will admit the public exercise of any other, or endure a Schism in that, which is already received: Wherefore then should it be done here?  
4. If it be granted to our Brethren, I cannot see how it can well be denied to other Sects.   
If it be said, That other Sects differ more from us, than they do; it is all one, Magis & minus non mutant Speciem, in matter of Toleration; for then all must be tolerated, howsoever some more, some less: And some of our Brethren grant all the Argument: And if we distinguish so, ye must declare, and expound clearly, what Sects, and what Opinions are to be tolerated, and what not, which will be a question inextricable, which no mortal man, appearingly, is able distinctly to determine.  
And some may say, The less the difference be, the less need is there for a Toleration to be granted to such a Sect: For the less it be, the greater is the Schism.  

5. God in the Old Testament granted no Toleration of divers Religions, or Disciplines; and the New Testament requireth no less union amongst Christians, than the old amongst the Jews.  
6. Either our Brethren do assent to our Doctrine, and are resolved likewise to assent to the Discipline, which God willing shall be established by common consent, or do not: If they grant the first, what need they any other Toleration, than the rest? If the second, it would be first discussed, wherein they are resolved to descent; and afterwards considered, whether it be of so great importance, that in consideration thereof, they dare not, in good Conscience, entertain communion with us.  
7. They are not pressed to be Actors in any thing against their Consciences: Ergo, They need not to be suitors for a Toleration; or if they be, it may justly be refused.  
8. It is against the nature of the Communion of Saints, to live in Sects apart, without communicating at the Lords Table, which very hardly will be avoided, if Toleration be granted.  
9 Because the Scripture exhorts us evermore unto unity, which cannot be easily procured by a Toleration of Sects, which cannot but daily beget new Schisms and Divisions.  
10. Because there was greater difference amongst the Members of the Church of Corinth in the rim of Saint Paul, and yet they communicated together; yea, the Apostle exhorted them unto mutual communion, and forbearance of Sects, and Divisions.  
11. Because the Opinion of our Brethren symbolizeth too much with that of the Donatists, who separated themselves from other Churches, under pretext, that they were not so holy as their own: Neither is it unlike to the Convents and Monasteries amongst the Papists; for as they all profess one Doctrine with the Romish Church, and yet every Order hath its own Discipline; that of S. Francis one, that of S. Dominick another; and in every Order one General, and in every Monastery one Abbot, Prior or Precedent; So all your Churches believe one Doctrine together with us, and every one of your Churches hath one Minister, as their Convents a particular Abbot or Prior. Ye only differ in this, That ye have no General, or any thing answerable thereunto to keep you in unity and conformity.  
12. It is the Civil Magistrates part to take away Heresies, Superstitions, and Corruptions in manners after the examples of the Kings of Juda: Wherefore then is not his duty likewise to take away all Schisms, which are the highway to Heresy, and consequently to deny Toleration, which is a way to both.  
13. We have but one God, one Christ, and one Lord, one Spirit, we are one Body, we have one Faith, and one Baptism, whereby we enter into the Church: Wherefore shall we not have one Communion, whereby to be spiritually fed, and one Discipline to be ruled by?  
14. If Churches have Disciplines, or Governments different in their Species, than the Churches must be different in their Species also; for all Collective bodies, or Consociations that are governed, are differenced by their different Governments, as we see in Civil Government, in the Constitution, and Distinction of States, Kingdoms, and Republikes: Wherefore as many divers Governments, as there be in Churches, as many different Species of Churches must we admit of, I speak here of the Church considered according to her visible form, but the consequent is false, since there is but one Church. Ergo.  
15. Neither Christ nor his Apostles, ever granted any Toleration to divers Sects and Governments in the Church; wherefore then will ye be Suitors for that, which they never granted?  
16. Yea, your New-England men (whose ways and practices in Government (ye say) are improved to a better Edition, and greater refinement, whom ye compare with our Father Abraham, Pag. 5. tolerated not their Brethren, who did hazard their lives in that voyage, but made them go again, as our Father Abraham, to seek out some new Habitations in strange Countries, yea, in strange Wildernesses, for themselves, and their seed after them; yea, they would not so much as some very godly and learned Divine relateth in his learned Book against Toleration) as receive some men, otherwise approved by themselves, both for their life and Doctrine, to live in any corner of New-England, howsoever here they were in danger to be persecuted for non-conformity; And that me lie, because they differed a little from them in point of Discipline. How then can our Brethren of that profession be Suitors for a Toleration in Old England, where they are no more persecuted, when as those of their profession refused it to those of New-England in time of great persecution? Is it not to be feared, That if they had the upper hand over us here, as there, they should send us all to some Isle of Dogs, as they have done others?  
17. Besides all this, the Scripture forbiddeth all such Toleration, 
Reve. 2 20 1 Cor 1.12.  as that of Jezabel; There must be no such speeches amongst us, as I am of Paul, I of Apollo's, I of Cephas; nor that some are Calvinians, as ye term us, some Independenters, some Brownists, some Anabaptists, etc. We must all be Christ's, we must all think, and speak the same things, Vers. 10. Otherwise men are carnal: 
1 Cor. 3.3. 1 Cor. 11.16, 18, 19, 20. Heb 10.25. Gal. 5.12.  Neither hath the Church of God a custom to be contentious: Neither permitteth the Apostle Schisms: We must not quit our mutual meetings, as others do, and as must be done in a public Toleration. They that trouble the Church must be cut off.  
18. Such a Toleration cannot but expose our Churches unto the calumnies of Papists, who evermore object unto Protestants the innumerable number of their Sects, whereas they pretend to be nothing but one Church.  
19 Of such a Toleration follows all we formerly deduced out of Independency.  
20. If it be granted, it cannot but be thought, that it hath been granted, or rather extorted by force of Reason, and that all the Assembly were not able to answer our brethren's, whereas indeed their Opinion, and Demands are against all Reason, as sundry of themselves could not deny, and had nothing to say, save only that it was God's Ordinance, which yet they never could show out of God's Word: On the contrary, if it be refused, it will help to confirm the Churches, and the people in the Truth.  
21. Neither can it but overthrow all sort of Ecclesiastical Government; for a man being censured in one Church, may fly to another; and being again suspended in that other, from thence to another, and so scorn all the Churches of God, and their Censures; And so this order by necessary consequence will breed all sort of disorder.   
I omit here many other Reasons, taken 

1. From the Efficient cause of Toleration, as they who can permit, or Tolerate Shismes: Whether mortals men have received any power of God, either jure divino, or naturally to dispense with God's Ordinances, and to permit that which he forbiddeth.  
2. From the object of it, viz. If it be good, or ill, for such as the object is, such must the Toleration, or permission be.  
3. From the Form, viz. If it be consonant unto Scripture, or not. For if it be not, it must be ill, since Scripture must be the rule of all acts of Christian duties.  
4. From the End, for if the End be ill, it is ill; yea, howsoever it be good, yet is it not good to permit ill for a good end, as the Apostle teacheth us; for howsoever God may do it, yet cannot we do it; For he who did draw light out of darkness, can draw, good out of sin yea, more good out of sin, then is the ill that it containeth in itself; So cannot we.  
5. From the Obligation that lieth upon us, to do all the good we can: and consequently, not only to forbear sin ourselves, but also to hinder others from sin, since it striketh at God's honour, which we are bound to maintain against all men.  
6. From the Obligation, that lieth upon us, not to be partakers in other men's sins, in approving, or not hindering them in, so far forth as lieth in us; For the power of hindering sin, is not given us for nothing, but for its End, which is its Act, viz. To hinder it actually.  
7. From the Obstatles; For God hath dealt so mercifully with the tate here, that there is no Force greater than itself, to compel it, to permit, or tolerate many Sects, Shismes, or Heresies; So that the fewer the Obstacles be found, the greater will the sin of a Toleration be found: But we fear to be to long upon this point.    
Your sixth Grievance, Our silence was interpreted, that we were either ashamed of our Opinions, or able to say little for them.  
Answ. If any man hath uttered any such expressions out of malice, or contempt of your Persons, they are to be blamed: If out of zeal to the Truth, and of the good Opinion they have of you, I believe ye will not blame them; for all good men esteem you to be very godly men, and no men of learning know you; but they know you to be very learned men, as some of your Books testify abundantly: But if little can be said to the purpose, for that cause which ye main tain, what marvel is it, That ye can say little for it? Neither can honest men doubt, but an ill man can and will say more for it, than all ye five can say, so soon as ye have considered it more profoundly: And the better men ye be, the less ye will have to say. Ye are not so able to maintain an ill cause, as an ill man.  
Your seventh Grievance. Books have been written (say ye again) to prepossess against what are presupposed our Tenets.  
Answ. Not what are your five Teners, but of those who have written upon that Subject; If yours be different from theirs, so soon as ye shall clearly declare them, they may receive an answer; And therefore it was nor to prepossess them, etc. But to keep them in possession of the truth already received.  
Afterwards ye give Reasons of your silence. 1. Because (say ye) it is the second blow, that makes the quarrel, etc.  
Answ. 1. We are assured that ye have given the first, second, and third blow, as it may easily appear by your Books, and Sermons here at London, as we have already answered. For the Books of the Divines that wrote against your Opinions, were only Answers unto Arguments of those of your Party. So than ye have made the quarrel. 2. This Reason, as it hindered you in the beginning, so should it at this present.  
Your second Reason is, Your conscientious apprebension of the danger of rending the godly Protestant Party.  
Answ. Wherefore then did it not hinder you from Printing of this Apologetical Narration? as we said before.  
Your third Reason is, The conjurements of many Honourable, Wise, and godly Personages of both the Houses of Parliament.  
Answ. If their Conjurements have so long been so effectual with you, how have they been now of late so inefficacious, that they could not hinder the Printing of this Book? How augment ye now this unhappy difference?  
4. Reason. The Declarations of the Parliament about the Union of Protestants against Popery, their respect to tender Consciences, as might prevent oppressions which had formerly been.  
5. Your Covenant. 6. And your duly respect to a peaceable Reformation. To these three, I answer as unto the third.  
7. The hopeful expectation of an happy latitude, and agreement.  
Answ. The agreement may be happy, if ye will, and so ye may obtain what ye might hopefully expect. 1. For I hope ye shall be freed from all oppressions, like to those ye formerly suffered under. 2. That ye may possess your Consciences in place. 3. That ye shall not be compelled to any external Confession, contrary to your present Tenets. 4. Much less to be Actors in any thing against your Conscience. And thus fare your hopeful expectation might have been well grounded. But if ye expected a Toleration for all Sects, or that we should have received your Opinions, ye hoped more, than ye had ground for.  
Now, whereas in the two last lines, ye submit this Declaration of your judgement, to the due, and orderly agitation of this Assembly; whereof (say ye) both Houses were pleased to make us Members.  
The Reader will do well to consider how cautiously ye speak here. 1. Ye submit this Declaration of your judgement, not to the judgement of the Assembly, as if the Spirit of Prophets should be subject unto Prophets; But only to the Agitation of the Assembly, and so ye seem no ways minded to submit yourselves unto the Assemblies judgement, as all the rest of the Members thereof, and of this Church too. 2. Neither submit ye it simply to the Agitation, but to the due and orderly Agitation of this Assembly, as if before ye had observed some undue; or unorderly Agitation of business in it, or feared it hereafter.  
Truly this undue restriction might very well have been omitted, for it is holden for a certain and undoubted Maxim amongst all Protestants, That the Church has no absolute power in her Judgements; That she cannot oblige us to do any ill; And that we are not bound to obey her unjust Ordinances, and Commands; But that it is better to obey God, than men.  
This Submission is very feriall, and worthy to be presented to some idle fellows: Ye will permit the Assembly from Morning till Evening to agitate, and dispute your Opinions, as if they had no other thing to do, neither here, or at home; A great submission, indeed of your judgements, which ye cannot refuse to the ordinariest Mechanic in the World; for since it is publiei juris published, they will assubject your judgement unto theirs, by way of Agitation, or disputing of it amongst themselves, as much as all the Divines of England, yea, whether ye will or not.  
Again, Since both Houses were pleased to make you Members of that Assembly, was not that a sufficient Justification, and Vindication of your Persons from all calumnies spread against you, and already scattered without speaking a word for yourselves? § 24. Pag. 24. Truly it is to be supposed, that the two Houses would never recommend men thither, either ignorant, or vicious, but the learnedest, and godliest of the Kingdom; so this your Apology is unseasonable: Only this needs an Apology, That being Members of the Assembly, ye will not submit yourselves unto the Assembly of Divines, but take odd ways, proper to you five alone, to publish particular Apologies, and desire a particular Toleration, which no other Members of the Assembly do. But as for this, transeat cum coeteris crroribus. It sufficeth that ye see extraordinary testimonies of the Parliaments, and Assemblies most tender affection towards you; how they have tolerated much in you, the like whereof hath not yet been tolerated in any Member, either of Parliament, or of the Assembly; and all to the end, to chase away all panic fears from your minds, and pretended disadvantages, which ye did forcsee, § 26.  
§ 26. Pag. 28. Howsoever ye commend much the Parliament, and declare, That ye grant more to the Civil Magistrate, than the principles of Presbyterial Government will suffer them to yield; Yet even here ye rap him over the Knuckles, as if in making you Members of the Assembly, he should have been partial, in placing you there with so many disadvantages; yea (as ye say) And therein also upon all sorts of disadvantages, which we could not but foresee, both in number, abilities of learning, Authority, the stream of public interest, Trusting God both with ourselves, and his own Truth.  
Answ. I maintain that the Parliament has done you no wrong, for ye were not forced to sit there; If there be so great disadvantages, ye might have chosen, whether you would have sit there at all, or not. All rational men think it a great favour, which ye esteem so great a disadvantage.  
And as for the Number. 1. Think ye that the Parliament ought to have put in such a Number of you, that agree not in your opinions amongst yourselves, as might have over-swayed all the Divines of the Kingdom, to the end that ye might afterward have compelled us all to quit the Kingdom, as your Friends of New-England have done to others? 2. Were ye to be compared in number with the rest of the Divines in this Kingdom, who are hundreds for one of you? Justice consisteth not in an Arithmetical, but in a Geometrical propertion, which here has been observed towards you; and that with more equity than Justice. 3. Neither did the Parliament hinder you, to call as many Divines of your Profession, as pleased you to consult with apart. 4. Neither need ye so great a number in the Assembly; for ye seem not (for any thing we can see) resolved to submit yourselves, or to acquiesse with any plurality of voices, either of Parliament, or Assembly; wherefore then desire ye so great a number?  
As for Abilities in Learning. 1. Ye might also have had with you, if it had pleased you, as many learned men as ye could find. 2. Neither believe I, that any others of your Profession could prudently take such a business in hand without you: Who ever knows you, knows well ye want no abilities to dispute your opinion in any Assembly in Europe: Men of learning, and of wisdom therefore think, that you speak this rather out of modesty, than otherwise.  
What ye understand by Authority, I know not; it cannot be Ecclesiastical, since ye acknowledge none in the Church: Then it must be political, and namely, that of the King, and Parliament, since that no other at this present, have power over you; and then I could wish, ye had spoken more considerately.  
Public interest, Either this must be taken of public interest in Religion; and than it 1º, or should be our sole aim; and it is no disadvantage for you, That both the Parliament, and the Assembly, be led by this Interest: Or in State, and then ye wrong both the Parliament, and the Assembly, as if they measured Religion by Worldly Ends, and Interests, wherein in ye are not to be believed. Neither will we retaliate unto you, that you may have some further Interests yet, that we know not of.  
And consequently ye need not to fear for your Persons, as if ye were in danger, or had subject to fear persecution, as in former time.  
§ 27. Pag. 28. Ye excuse yourselves from false Doctrine, whereof no man accuseth you.  
§ 28. Ye tell us, that the Difference betwixt you, and us, is not so great; the less it is, the less should ye be suitors for a Toleration; and if ye obtained it, the greater should be your Schism.  
§ 28. Pag. 30. Here also ye excuse yourselves, that ye have not made a Scholastic Relation of your Judgement, whereunto we have already answered; and in so doing your opinions remaining less known, hardly can they be distinctly refuted.  
§ 28. Pag. 39, 30. Afterwards ye require two things of the Parliament, That it will look upon you under no other Notion, or Character, then as those, who do as little differ from the Reformed Churches, and your Brethren; yea, far less, than they do from what themselves were three years past, or then the generality of this Kingdom from itself of late. 2. Ye require an allowance of a latitude to some lesser differences with peaceableness.  
Answ. And we pray you, do, as they have done, to the end, the Parliament may look upon you, as they do upon them. 1. They never condemned all the Protestant Churches, as ye do. 2. They never desired a Toleration, to make a Separation, as ye do. 3. Either they approved not the ill of the times past, but patiently endured it according to their light, hoping and praying to God for better, without Schism. 4. Or approved it: but when it pleased God in his mercy to illuminate them, they disapproved what before they had approved of, and changed from worse to better; which if ye do, O what a joy shall it be unto them, and to us all, and what a contentment may it bring unto yourselves?  
And finally, As for the latitude and tolerance ye sue for, it is unjust, and most pernicious, both to Christ's Church, and the Kingdom, as we have hear already clearly demonstrated.   
FINIS.