A DIALOGUE, ARGVING That Arch-Bishops, Bishops, Curates, Neuters, are to be cut-off by the Law of GOD; Therefore all these, with their Service, are to be cast-out by The Law of the Land.  
Notwithstanding, The world pleads for their own, why some Bishops should be spared, The Government maintained; The name had in honour still; But the word of God is clear against all this, for the casting-of-all-forth.  
The great Question is, which way of Government now? For two ways are contended for, The Presbyterial and Independent: Something is said to both these ways: But we have a sure word for it, That these two ways are but in show two, and will assuredly meet in one.  
Neuters are shown openly here, and the curse of GOD upon them.  
Presented to the Assembly of DIVINES.  And the Lord hath given a Commandment concerning thee, That no more of Thy name shall be sown: I will make thy grave, for thou art vile. N●h. 1. 14 Sing unto the LORD, for He has done excellent things; This is known in all the earth. Isa. 12. 5. Upon mount Zion shall be deliverance, and there shall be holiness. Obad. 17. They have made themselves vile, cast them out of My sight, and let them go forth. 1 Sam. 3 13. Jer 15. 1. 〈…〉, that thou stoodst on the other side, A looker-on the day of thy brother; even thou wast one of them. Obad. 11. 
LONDON, Printed by T. P. and M. S. in Gold-Smiths-Alley, 1644.   

TO THE EXCELLENT IN THE LAND, Dr. WILLIAM TWISSE, Master of the ASSEMBLY: And to the DIVINES there: With the most highly honoured, and dearly beloved, The Commissioners for the Church of SCOTLAND.  
AN unknown person, (and desires so to be) the meanest of many Thousands, presents these papers to your hands, which he call a Book, having (he doubts not) Truth and reason for its Parrons 
* Libri, hoc nomine dignandi, in veritatis tantum et rationis clientelam se dare debent. Ver. de Aug. l 1. ; Therefore he does not doubt, but ye will be its Patrons too; ye will countenance these, wherever you find them, though amidst some refuse, bearing GOD'S Image and superscription. For the man, you will weigh him with his full allowance, he needs all that, and he looks for no more. So far as he dares trust a great Deceiver, he dares say, That he has no other end in this, but the glory of GOD, and good of his brother: That he may be informed, if ignorant; confirmed, if weak; convinced, if froward and obstinate, That is the White he levels at. There are Three main Exceptions. 1) Against the Title, It is a Dialogue. (2) Against the Author, A known enemy to Bishops, says Here-say, a most notorious liar. (3) Against the ways of worship now: For some say, There be two. I shall endeavour to give clear satisfaction to all this in the next Pages. I cease here to interrupt you any farther, so fixed upon your work, Earnestly contending for the faith; and striving together each with other, and for other, in your prayers  
Now the good will of Him, That now dwells in the Bush, dwell in your Assembly (upon that glory let That defence be) and in your houses, To supply your absence, and all needs there; In your several Congregations, and be a small Sanctuary there; In your hearts, and be Lord and King there, Amen. The GOD of Truth, lead you into all Truth, Amen. The Lord of Peace Himself, give you peace always by all means, That no occasion be given to the Adversary to speak reproachfully, Amen. The LORD be with you all, Amen. Take you by the hand, keep you in His way, hold you fast to it for the Churches good, and your own good everlasting, Amen and Amen.   

By way of Preface to all that love Truth and Peace.  
THat is, To all over the Christian world, for all love Peace. No; There is a generation of men, That shall leave their names to posterity for a curse, who love Death, set themselves in Battle Array against the Truth, and are pretenders to peace, no more, they hate it in their hearts. I do not fear to point-out these men, and to tell, who they are; They, who standup for Archbishops, and Lord-Bishops, (I call them by that common name, though Prelate seems a more proper name) They will maintain the Government by Bishops, and their service in full force and virtue, as it follows in our Briefs, Notwithstanding that there is all law and reason against it: And, which is above all Reason, though the LORD CHRIT has taken to Himself power in all the people's sight, bringing these men down, even to the sides of the pit, whence they shall not return, till they rise to Judgement. The common people lookers on now, and observing the Princes and Nobles of the world, in this eager contention, betting (with the Devil) and staking down Earldoms, and Lordships, and the crown of their glory; cannot be persuaded in their hearts, That this betting and staking is to win a very triste; to gain a thing of nought. Therefore, having such examples before them, They standup for Bishops also, for their Government, and service: And some of ●hem, not common men amongst the commons, give their reason, why they would have Bishops, neither their Government, nor their service abolished; Because, Their 
No wise Reason from so wisemen.  forefathers were born & died under the Bishop's Government, served God after the Bishop's manner, and prescribed forms of worship: and why should they yield to alterations, or subscribe their names to a Covenant, touching that matter? For these men's sakes, whom I tender as brethren, All made of the same blood; have all the like precious souls; bought with the same price; professors of the same faith; called all by the same name; seem to rejoice under the same hope; look to inherit the same kingdom; for their sakes, I have taken this pains; To show them, that will not shut their eyes, the clear will and law of God touching the , The throwing down of the Bishops (I carry it no higher) the rooting-out of their Government; The casting-out of their service; The abolishing of their name. There be three main exceptions now, as was said, I'll tell what they are, and remove them as I can.  
(1.) It is a Dialogue: and therein I dispute and argue the case with myself; and so wise I am, I will put no other arguments to myself, but what I can tell myself how to answer: And so I must needs overcome, as the Boy must win the game, that plays with himself. To this I make answer first.  
(1) I thought A continued discourse not so proper as a Dialogue, that the fancy might have more liberty to work upon the understanding.  
(2) I can say truly, That this is no feigned disputation, but truly and really acted; only now enlarged with such Objections, and Answers, which, upon due considerations, I could imagine might be made for the upholding of the Bishops, the continuance of their Government, or the name. I say again, and as in the ears of GOD; That I have, by His good hand on me, throughly considered the present Controversy, and have desired to takein, as my understanding did supply, what I thought could be suggested, for the maintaining of the ; That I might cast-out all scruples, and clear the minds of the ignorant, and weak Christians touching these matters: So much to the first Exception.  A. 
2. The next is, That I am not to be be heard in this Controversy, for I was always a professed enemy to Bishops; I answer first  B. 
1. That I do not crave Audience; let GOD be heard, and Truth be heard, and I have enough.  
2. I am an enemy to Bishops! Indeed I am, and ever was (since I understood them, and myself) An enemy to them: But no farther, than as they are enemies to their LORD CHRIST; (I'll add) and to themselves, no farther. But because it is an hard matter, To walk evenly towards men, neither having their persons in Admiration, because of Advantage; nor contemning them, because of some evil they have done against the Church; and some cloud of disgrace, which has overcast their pleasant Sunshine: Because of this, I shall say a little more; That I bear no ill will to any Lord-Bishops person in the world. Ill will! nay, I call GOD to record upon my soul, That, To lift-up the Arch-Bishops, and Lord-Bishops (Wren and Pearce) nearer to heaven, I could falldowne upon the earth, and wallow in the dust there; I could behave myself for them, as for my friend or brother; I could bow-downe heavily for them, as one that mourneth for his mother; I say, I can mourn for them; That I can do without an if; I cannot pray for them, but with an if. I'll tell you my reason; I have heard, and from the Pulpit too, Julian and Spira coupled together, and so concluded (from false premises sure) That even Spira (whom goodmen hope to meet in heaven) that Spira sinned as Julian did, he fell into that sin, which none but the clear-sighted man can fall into. Ah Lord I says any so of Spira? What may we fear touching these Bishops? who have played and sported themselves upon the hole of the Asp; and blundred very near the brim of the darkest dungeon; They have fought against GOD at noonday, holding a To●ch in their hand, the while: and so came-up near borderers upon them, who opposed of malicious wickedness. This is spoken, Reader, for mighty Reasons; The least for to clear myself, a friend to the Bishop's souls. (2) To move all to do for them, as Samuel for Saul, mourhe for them 
* Si non ores gea●as tamen, etc. Rev. 9 20, 21. . (3) And to command our watchfulness, That we do not oppose clear T●uths n●r set ourselves against a common light: for something is in this; The m●n that were not killed with the plagues, repent not of the works of their hands, that they should not worship Devils and Idols: neither repent they of their murders, nor of their sorceries, nor of their fornications, nor of their theits: There is something in this: and it is in fight. A good warning to us, That we do not so and so, as Arch-Bishops and Lord-Bishops have done; And so much to evidence my tenderest respect to their persons, and to their souls.  A. 
3. The third exception; And what way of Government now? These Disciplinaries should have continued the Government of Bishops, till they had established another.  B. 
That is against the method of Edification; The old frame must be taken down first, and the Rubbish cast-out, before the new frame can be erected, or setup.  A. 
But here are two ways of Government Argued for; which way shall we, poor ones, take?  B. 
Stay a little, and we will praise God first, Tha●, when there were so many cross and contrary ways of worship, and service, as contrary as are Christ and Belial; the Temple of God, and of Idols; These ways are clean forsaken, now they shall never be trod-in any more: And the people of God are pointed unto two ways, so agreeable to the word of God, comming-up so near to the rule, and closing with it, That the most cleare-sighted-men cannot tell which way comes-up nearest. I would we could praise God for this.  
2. Let us, poor ones, be advised here, and be wondrous careful and circumspect, That we do not go our own way: for this is an undoubted Truth, That it is our own way, which does and will cause all the trouble to the Church, and to ourselves 
* Here I could speak great words sion GOD'S mouth, against Master Randall, and such like, who will go their own way, pleasing in their own eye, but abominable in GOD'S sight. .  
3. Mark we these, that are most querulous here, and are readiest to make Objections; They are such, who would make Divisions amongst us; They are children of Belial; they would be under no yoke; It is their own way, the way of their own hearts, which they contend for, and would walk therein: And that will cause all the Trouble. Note this. It is not this way, or that way, which the people oppose; but GOD'S way and Command, which is, That every man should look to his own way, be Judge there 
* Note, That the sacred Scripture wills us not to judge another's way, but our own way. 1 Cor. 11. 31. , and give account thereof, how agreeable it is to the Gospel-way; Which, giving account, we wickedly call a Shrifting now adays, and will oppose mightily.  A. 
But here are two ways of Government still.  B. 
So they say, and so it seems to be, and but seems; These two ways are but like two streams, taking several channels, so they run cross a little time, and then fall into the main again, and keep one way, a direct way for ever 
* Book, p. 38 40. .  
Three words to him or them, who, with desire do desire, That the way of worship may be cleared, and quickly resolved upon. Amen.  
(1) But consider, That, in the mean time, if thy heart be right, thou mayst order thyself and thy house in a Church way, the way of holiness; What hinders? 2. Thou dost desire pure Ordinances, an holy Discipline; It is well; But is thy heart fit for all this? Is it prepared? Thou hopest, Yes; It is well; But put it out of question. 3. Thou expectest now, That the LORD will make great provisions for His servants; He is preparing a feast now in His Holy Mountain, for an holy people; He is indeed; But consider we, what have we done with all our store, that abundance which we have had, specially these four last years? Those soule-quickening Ordinances! What have we done with all that abundance? Certainly, these were given unto us, That we might have life thereby, and have it in abundance. Ah Lord! I remember now how chrysostom brings in the Heathen before the Throne of GOD, accepting their Judgement, from His mouth; b●nding the knee, and giving glory to Him, that sits thereon; yet had they but a common light, and never heard of the Lord Jesus Christ, not a word. I say not, says he, Where shall the wicked appear? But, where shall the Gospelers appear? Who have been liftedup to heaven by the means of grace, yet were their conversation low, and earth-ward; how low will their fall be? A consideration, if put home to every man's heart, will throw fire and brimstone in thither for present, That he may escape it for the time to come, and for ever. Let us consider, What good things we have; how we have improved them; not what we want and would have, but how wanting we are to what we have; I have done Prefacing: We must hear now what God says, and would have done: Then we will hear what man can say; God will be heard first.   

A DIALOGUE, ARGVING That Arch-Bishops, Bishops, Curates, Neuters; All these are to be cut off by the Law of GOD; therefore to be cast-out by the Law of the Land.  
THey that have done the same abominations, for the committing whereof their fathers and brethren, in former ages, have been, by the law of God, cut off from the earth; These aught, by the law of man, to be Cast-out of the Land: The Archbishops and Bishops have committed these abominations, for which others, in ancient times, have suffered death; Therefore these aught to be throwne-out of the Land, by the Law of the Land.  A. 
I deny that the Bishops have committed such abominations.  B. 
They have committed the same abomination (I will instance in particulars) against the Day of God's worship, which, one man having committed, was, by the command of God, cut off from the earth. 
Numb. 15 35▪   A. 
I am not so slenderly read, but I know whom you mean by that one man, him that gathered sticks upon the Sabbath, and was by the command of God put to death for so doing; But you can never prove, that the Archbishops and Bishops, gathered sticks upon the Lord's day; neither their graces, nor their Lordships would stoop so low, I am confident of that: And as confident I am, that they did not commit the same Abomination.  B. 
Your confidence will deceive you, and you must forsake it: The Bishops have committed the same abomination with an higher hand, and a more open face. I say, the same in your sense, First,  
(1) They commanded Rushes to be gathered against the Lord's day: And when the people should be preparing themselves to their solemn address before the Lord, they were commanded to bestrew the Chapel with Rushes; A service not worth a rush, but a notorious dis-service to the Church, and scorn to the Lord of the day; But the Bishops would show their power.  
(2) The same in your sense and understanding; The Bishops commanded the people to gather flowers, therewith to plat a garland, and to set it upon a Maypole; To the intent the people might, upon the Lord's day, dance about it with more cheerfulness. O ye heavens! be ashonished at this! Never the like dishonour to the Lord Christ, since their forefathers plaited a crown of Thorns for his head. But I go on.  
(3) The same in our sense and true construction; For you must not conceive, that the man was stoned for gathering sticks; there was more in it then a bare action; there was a malignancy in it; As his need might have required, he might have gathered sticks, and kindled them upon the Sabbath day too, and have given a good account for so doing: As a more toilsome work might have been done, and is done upon the Lord's day, then is strewing of Rushes; But there must be a command for doing it, if not from GOD'S mouth, yet from man's necessity, that has a command: If you observe the Context, this one man did presumptuously; he needed a fire no more than others of his brethren, yet he would presume above all; he would try the Patience of the Lord; and, in so doing, he reproached the Lord, says the Text: his action was presumptuous, a reproaching 
Ver. 30.  of the Lord. The Archbishops and Bishops did the same abomination; The same! They did more presumptuously; They did▪ reproach the Lord; never any, from the beginning of the world to that day, did so presumptuously as they did; never did any of the Heathen so reproach their gods, which yet were no gods, as these have reproached the God of gods, and Lord of Lords; and so have been an inlet to that fire, which now rageth in the Land; They have been a means (I would take no man off from communing with his own heart, and enquiring how willing he was to have it so) They have been a means to make our Land a Tabherah; Because of the fire of the Lord amongst us 
a Numb. 11. 3. . I demand then, Is the Law of the LORD clear, for the cutting-off these men?  A. 
Yes, those that have committed that abomination; but all the Bishops have not done so.  B. 
You shall have free liberty, to speake-out, and what you have to say for them, anon. This is to our purpose now; That the Law was clea●e, for the cutting off that one man; muoh more for the cutting off these men, who were guides unto others; had a clearer light than he had; did more presumptuously, more reproached the Lord, than he did; The clearer the light, the clearer the Judgement; And the clearer God● Law is against them, for the cutting of them off; the clearer the Law of the Land is against them, for the casting of them forth.  A. 
But you have charged this upon the King.  B. 
Not I, The King of Kings has charged this blaspemy, has laid this burden upon the King's shoulders; yet so, as it is not a grain the lighter upon the Bishop's shoulders. It is charged upon the King, decreing that blasphemous decree; upon the Bishops, prescribing the same: Upon the King, as chief Author; Upon the Bishops, as Instruments. Woe 
Isa. 10. 1. Vae auctoribus maleficiorum tum etiam administris. woe to the Authors of wicked decrees, and to the Ministers executing the same. Isa. 10. 1● Trem. Isa. 10. 3. Jer. 13. 1●. Act. 9 26.  unto both, says the LORD, And what will you do in the day of visitation, and in the day of desolation, to whom will they flee for help? They have defiled their Sanctuary, polluted their Lord's day, reproached the LORD of the Day. Say unto the King, and to his Bishops, Humble yourselves, sit down, for your principalities shall come down, even the Crown of your glory. And until the King, chief in the trespass, shall say so much to his own soul, and not only say it, but be indeed and in truth humbled for it, giving clear demonstrations thereof in all the people's sight, till he says so, and does so humble himself, his good people will be as jealous of him, as afraid of him joining with his Parliament, as the Disciples were of Paul, when he would join himself with them; They were all afraid of him, and believed not that he was a Disciple; This is he, said they, who compelled the people to blaspheme, and persecuted the Saints to strange Cities; Therefore Paul's repentance was as fully declared as his sin was, and then he was trusted, and not before. I proceed to a second Argument.  
TWO Argument. The Bishops have blasphemed, etc.  A. 
You have said enough, if you can prove that.  B. 
I prove it first, They said they are Bishops, when they were not; for they did nothing as became Bishops.  A. 
Is it blasphemy to say, We are, what indeed we are not?  B. 
Yes, in God's account, and He can best judge of Blasphemy; I know, says the Spirit, the blasphemy of them, who say they are Jews, and they 
Rev. 2. 9  are not; What was their blasphemy? Surely, we know no other but this, They said they were, what they were not; That was their blasphemy: And it is of high consideration, & of the same concernment to us Christians, to teach us To be, what we say we are.  A. 
The Bishops said they are Bishops, and they are Bishops, 〈◊〉 see them to be so.  B. 
Yes, if lawn sleeves, and an outward dress, or garb, can give in sufficient evidence, That they are, what they say they are; But let us, according to the Charge, speak as the Oracles of GOD, and deliver forth clearly, what they say, and what we see: It is true, the Lord Christ, who sees the heart, and knows the secrets therein, does not judge after the sight of the eye, nor reprove after the hearing of the ear. But we, poor 
Isa. 11. 4.  men, who see no more but the outside, we must take leave to judge after the sight of the eyes, and reprove (for we have no other means) after the hearing of our ears: We profess hearty, we mark not so much, what men say, as what they do; We care not what they say they are; but what we see they are; And so we will compare what they say they are, and what we see they are, and so leave it to others, thereby to give Righteous Judgement; They say they are from heaven; we see they are from Rome. They say they are Fathers; we see they have no natural affection at all; bloody Fathers have they been, bloody Fathers. They say they are spiritual; we see they are altogether carnal. They say they are Lords; we see they are slaves to their lusts, to their honours, to men, Time-servers, Men-pleasers. They say they are ovex-seers; we see they oversee nothing but their Rents and Revennewes, which was the complaint long ago 
b See History of the Council of Trent. Book 2. Pag. 252. and 216. Non magis de pascendagrege, Cogitant qua sutor de orando. Calvin Instit. 4. Chap. 5. Sect. 12, 13 Jer. 23. 13 14. Ezek. 22. 26. Zach. 11. 17. . They say they are men of GOD; we see they are men of the world. They say they stand for Christ; we see they stand against Christ, opposing Him in all His ways. They say they are Ministers of the Gospel; we see folly is in them, and horrible things are committed by them. They say they are Shepherds; we see they are idol-shepherds, and the sword is upon their right eye, and arm; their Arm is clean dried-up, and their right eye is utterly darkened: This we see, that they are not what they say they are. Their mouth was yet wider open to utter blasphemies; for  
2. They said they were Bishops by divine Right: I mean it not in their sense now, nor as it was commonly understood, though that was an high presumption, this was more. They said they were Bishops, and would have made themselves so, by the same right, whereby the Lord Christ, blessed for ever, was made a Priest for ever; By the same right would they have made themselves, Archbishops, Bishops, Deans, Arch-Deacons, etc. for ever. Mark we whether it was not just so; To be established by an Oath, was a peculiar Instalment to our High Priest, the great Bishop of our souls, He was made with an Oath; Other Priests, without an Oath 
c Heb. 7. 20, 21. ; But so they thought to establish themselves, that their thr●● might endure for ever; for, unto an immutable thing, wherein it was impossible (they thought) to be mistaken, they had fixed the Anchor of their hope, both sure and steadfast. What do you think of this?  A. 
I think it to be a greater blasphemy, than the other.  B. 
It is hard to make a comparison, who blasphemes most; he, that blasphemes in words; or he, that blasphemes in deed. But you think this to be a great blasphemy?  A. 
Yes.  B. 
Surely you cannot think less, for here they said more presumptuously, than that proud King did; We will exalt our Throne above 
Isa. 14. 13, 14.  the Stairss of GOD; we will ascend above the height of the Clouds; we will be like the most High, (will was all their reason.) And now see what the LORD has done! (for it is the work of His hands) He has brought them down even to the sides of the pit. I argue from hence, the lawfulness of the eradicating, or rooting-out this abominable root (the Hierarchy with its branches) by the same Argument, which they used for the rooting themselvesin; And we are sure, that there is strength enough in the Argument, if the highest presumption, and most horrid blasphemy can give strength unto it, for all this is in it.  
Hitherto we have seen the Law and Hand of the LORD against these men, for the Abomination committed against the LORDS day. 2. For their presumptuons say and blasphemous do against the LORD Himself. We proceed now to another Argument, for the Casting of them forth, because of their force and fraud against the people of GOD, the Clergy indeed, the lot of His Inheritance; Thus I argue;  
Arg. III They that did call the people to the Sacrifices of strange gods; They that did seek to entice and turn-away the servants of GOD from serving so good a Master, were, by GOD'S command, to be hanged-up 
Num. 25. 4.  before the LORD; The Bishops have spoken all that they could speak, and have done all that they could do, whereby to entice and 
Deut. 13. 1.  thrust-away the people of God, from the service of God, to serve abominable Idols, the work of men's hands; Therefore, by man's law, these are to be Cast-out; What will you deny here?  A. 
This, That the Bishops have done as you have said, sought to entice the people of God secretly, & by fraud: or by force to thrust his people away from the service of their God; All this I deny.  B. 
All this you deny! It is quickly said, but you stand charged to consider, what you deny, lest you contradict the evidence and verdict which all your senses give-in unto you touching this matter; I shall call themin now to give witness; and I charge you before the Living God, answer now the truth, and the whole truth, as your senses have made report unto you; first,  B. 
What hear you from their Pulpits?  A. 
I cannot answer that question; for the Archbishops have not preached these (I know not how) many years: and the Bishope preach in the Lent-time only; and then there is such a throng to hear a Bishop preach, that I cannot come within hearing; Therefore I can give you no certain report.  B. 
Though you heard not the Bishop, yet you heard of his Sermon; What heard you?  A. 
That the Bishop no sooner named his text, but he ran away from it as from an adversary, with which he could not agree: Indeed the report of the Bishop's Sermon is very various, and monstrous, so inconsistent it is with its self, and with the text: for though the sacred Scripture be constant to its self, yet the Bishop and his Chaplin (for he stood-up often in the Bishop's place) did mould, frame, and fashion his Text as you can do Wax, to the fashion of the time, or business in hand, still turning head upon God, and his Word, and preaching not the preaching which God said unto him, but what best agreed with the work in hand, 
Jonah 3. 2.  to make the King absolute; and the Bishop an absolute Monarch also. So they preached; for just as the time served, so the text should serve. Now he preached-up the King's Prerogative; and preached down the Subject's Privilege; set the King's throne above GOD'S throne, and his people below his foot. This was the chief part of the Sermon, as pertinent to the Design in hand, as it was cross to the text. Then Episcopacy must be Asserted by Divine Right; The Government in the Church must be Monarchical, as in the Civil state, it must be absolute: And the better to bring about all this, They preached-up Ceremonies, Altars, 
A brutish service will render a people brutish.  and Organs; and the lawfulness of the war with Scotland; the pursuing that brother with a sword; Peace with Rome, but no peace with Scotland; What ever was the Text, that was the Doctrine and subject matter a great while. I pray you do not ask me any further account of the Bishop's Sermon; I can give no more account of it, than the sick-man can of his dreams. Surely, It was so Heterogeneous, incongruous, Inconsistent with, I say not baptised Reason, but common reason, and 
Baptizatam rationem.  sense, that in very truth, no good report can be made thereof.  B. 
I believe you, and therefore I have done with your ear: What read you?  A. 
A very godly book, the Archbishops against the Jesuit Fisher; wherein there is nothing sure to thrust away the people of GOD from the service of GOD: but rather from the service of Rome; I am confident of that.  B. 
Be not so confident of an Archbishops book; for, as one said of his loving friend, a blow from that hand would never hurt him: So you may be confident, That the Archbishop never intended, by that book, to hurt the Pope, or his Cause, but to promote it hearty: I do assure you, that the Archbishops intent was so honest, so true, so hearty towards Rome, and so false toward the true Church, that had he had as many necks, as I read one man had mouths (no fewer than fifty,) they deserve every one to be tr●ssed up about with a rope; and yet not a full recompense of reward for his ungodly labour in that book.  B. 
Proceed, What read you?  A. 
A very pious book, which has thrust us quite off from Rome; has caused a deadly feud betwixt us and Rome, it is called, No peace with Rome.  B. 
There is such a book indeed, but you do read also, that the same man has written, That Rome is a true Church; have you not read so?  A. 
Yes, and truly, me thought, there was a great contrariety in words, such a difference as could never be reconciled; No peace with Rome, yet Rome a true Church, it can never be reconciled, thought I  B. 
Yes, that it can, though not well; distinguish the times, and persons, and all is reconciled; The same man writ both, No peace with Rome before he was Bishop: Rome, a true Church, after he was Bishop; The one, as a Minister of Christ, the other, as a Minister of Antichrist. When he was a Bishop, he must write as a Bishop, that is the point. And he could reconcile all very well (he had been unbishopt else) and so he put forth a book, and called it a Reconciler; which caused more than a suspicion of the man, that he was not a fearful man only, but a right man, a Proctor for Rome, a subtle broker for Babylon. GOD give him an heart to think of this, for surely, such a man as he should not have given so just a cause of suspicion. But proceed; What read you?  A. 
Pray you do not trouble me with that question any more, let it suffice to tell you, what I know in two words, the Bishop's books, and books licenced by their Chaplains (if they may be called books) are very many, and stand as fully charged against their LORD, and the Lords Anointed, as any books in Italy, or in the Pope's Library can do.  B. 
I'll ask you no more, What you read; but what do you see; do you see any thing from the Bishops tending to edification?  A. 
Yes, if edification be a building and setting-up, (as I think the word doth import) I see much tending that way. I saw Bishop Wrens Library opened, where I saw (what do you call them?) pretty knacks, Images and Crucifixes, etc. All tending to edification of Rome's Church, and the Pope's liege people.  B. 
Have you seen any Altars?  A. 
You might as well ask me, whether I have seen any Churches, or Chapels, or cathedrals; for in every of these places, there is an Altar, and most eminently seen there; there is an ascent to it, by degrees and steps, as to Solomon's Throne; Indeed I may answer your question in the words of the LORD, According to the number of (Thy Cities) 
Jer. 2.  of thy cathedrals, thy chancels, thy Chapels, are thy Altars, thy gods, O England.  B. 
You have bolted out a Truth here, I think, before you were ware; I pray you, let us understand ourselves, and examine whether you have spoke a Truth or no? I asked you, whether you have seen any Altars? You answer me, Yes, as many as there be cathedrals, and Chapels, and then you called them gods: I pray you understand, that it is not the Bishops calling wood or stone, an Altar, or the setting of it like a D●esser-board in your Kitchen, Altarwise, which makes it an Altar? No: They may (for they are Bishops, you may not) take a stone a● a stock, hue and polish the same, then ●avish gold out of the bag, and so adorn it: though all this cost and pains be bestowed upon it, yet it is not an Altar, nor a god yet; no nor yet, when they have set-it-up, as was said, Altarwise, like the D●●sser table in your Kitchen, yet it is not an Altar, nor a god yet. But if the great man 
* Isa. 2. 9 , the Archbishop humbleth himself; and the mean man, the in●eriour Bishop, bowech-downe before it, than you may call it an Altar, and, i● you please, a god too. But if you have seen no bending nor cringing, nor bowing, nor humbling before this wood and stone, than you have miscalled this wood and stone, and wronged the Archbishops and Bishops all.  A. 
I have not miscalled it; I have called it as they have named it.  B. 
You are a man of short Discourse, pray you remember what was said; That it is not the form, fashion, placing, settling of wood or stones, or calling it an Altar, which makes it an Altar: none of all this; but the bowing and humbling, that gives unto it a worship, and that makes it an Altar, and a god both 
* Ecce plumbatur erig●tur nec adhuc Deus est. Consecratur oratur ●unc postremo Deus est. M. Fel. in fol. 1. pag. 16. lin. 27. .  A. 
But now, nor Pope, nor Bishop, will grant, That bowing and humbling before wood and stone, make it a god.  B. 
I think as you say, and no matter what Pope, or Bishop, Jesuit, or Papist, grant ordeny. This we affirm to the face of all the Papists in the world; That this bowing and humbling (not Civil worship in the Church) is a worship proper and peculiar to God alone; He is a God, whom we so worship; or we make it, though out wood or stone, we make it a god, as much as in us lies; while we make wood and stone share in this worship, we deify it, we exalt it on high, (and our folly with it) we make it more than a creature. In a word, By bowing and humbling before wood and stone, we make it a false god, and ourselves; I say not, abominable; but a very abomination. My Question then is; Have you seen any of all this, bowing and humbling before wood and stone? Have you seen Archbishops and Bishops, the great men, and the mean men do so?  A. 
I can give you a clear answer to your Question; for I can tell you, what I have seen with mine eyes. In April 1640. The day after the Parliament sat, then and there, in Paul's Choir, I observed the Arch-Bishops and Bishops every one, except two, ducking so low before the Altar, that their backparts appeared, and their foreparts (their heads) disappeared: And what call you that? Bowing and humbling sure. And what they did in Paul's, they would do in the Kings, and Queen's Chapel, and in their own, where they have the same piles of wood and stone, with wax-tapers upon them; and Priests (with what call you it upon their backs?) before the Altar; I call it an Altar now by your allowance, and a god too; for the great man has humbled himself before it, and the mean man has bowed down.  B. 
Had we time to stay upon it, I would bid you read on; Therefore forgive them not; These are terrible words, but we must pass them over, and so proceed, Your eye has done you good service; It has shown you the most abominable Idolatry that ever was committed under the Sun, exceeding that of the Priests in the Queen's Chapel; for there they humble themselves, and bow, but not before wood and stone, but before a wooden or a Breaden-god, the work of their own hands. They that can make gods with their own hands, can worship them, and with the same Reason. I descend now from the eye, to inquire of your other senses.  B. 
What did you Smell, and Taste all the time of the Bishop's reign?  A. 
As was the smell of the Services in the Queen's Chapel; where was the grossest, the rankest, the most stinking Popery; yet not so abominable, as the Bishop's Idolatry, for the Reason abovesaid.  B. 
What have you felt?  A. 
You should not ask me that Question; I am, as they call me, a layman (by which name, I cannot tell myself what I am) nor must you ask any of the Bishop's Clergymen [The Bishops and their Ministers are the lot and inheritance of the Lord, the Clergy, they say, though] They are as their Lords are; Ask a Minister of Jesus Christ, any one faithful Steward in God's house, he will tell you, That if the Bishops could not thrust him off from the work and service of the LORD, than he could thrust himout of GOD'S house, and his own; and thrust yet sorer at him, till he had thrust him out of the Land; It is unspeakable what Gods faithful Ministers, and faithful people, have suffered from the Bishops themselves, and their bloody servants; what Devouring words! what violence from their hands!  B. 
Very well: Now I pray you answer me from what all your senses have reported to you, whether you have observed any thing spoken or done by the Bishops, any fraud, any force, whereby to thrust away the people of GOD from the service of GOD, their good Master in heaven? Answer according to the report your senses have given to your understanding touching this matter?  A. 
That the Bishops have endeavoured by all their say and do, To render The Lord's Day, vile and contemptible; more marred than any Day. They endeavoured also, to thrust away King and people from the worship and service of their God, etc.  B. 
That is enough, for grant so much (and yet more you must grant) and then that follows, which, being well prosecuted, will strike at the Bishop's heads, and truss them short by the necks. But yet you must answer me more fully, and so you will put me to the trouble of other Questions, and yourself to the answers. Was all this fraud and force, these Devices, Methods, Depths of the Bishops, were all these but an endeavour only, and a Design with them? In polluting To pollute The Lord's Day; In defiling To Defile the house of God, and the services there; Was it but an endeavour only to thrust away the Deputy from the faith? To stop the mouths of the Ministers? To thrust them out of GOD'S house, and their own, and into prisons, or out of the Land? Was it but an endeavour; but a Design only, To make some of them, who would do their duty, a spectacle to God, Angels, and men? [I know the Lord has His Reserve, a Remnant, a few Names, who would not defile their garments; He did preserve some out of the fire; and some in the fire; some He delivered from the Lion's den; and some He rescued from out of the Lion's mouth. I know the LORD has had His Reserves evermore; and His Deliverances, and His Rescues are wonderful. It is granted also, That all these hard words and ungodly deeds, have tended to the spreading of the Gospel; the furtherance of it even in this Land, and to the increase of the faithful, the ennobling and hightening of their Spirits, by the opposition made against them: It has made many lights burn the brighter, the stronger the wind was to put them out. The LORD has many and fair ways to re●rute His Nobles, and Worthies, ways well beseeming and becoming the God of Gods, and Lord of Lords. But what the Lord has done, what good He has brought out of all this evil, is not the Question now.] I charge you before the Living God, answer me to this; Were all the writings, say, do of the Bishops, but an endeavour only, but a Design? Have they effected nothing touching the premises: Open your mouth, and speak as the Oracle of God, and as in the ears of God, Have the Bishops but endeavoured only in polluting To pollute The Lord's Day? Answer me that first.  A. 
It cannot be denied, That the Bishops set-out a Book, wherein they gave an Advousion of liberty to the people, for harmless sports, and pass-times, to pass over the Sunday, as they, The Lord's day, as ye call it. Indeed this Grant of liberty, worked contrary effects, as all men say, but that was by accident, as the Logicians say; It was not in the nature of the thing, but in the nature of the people.  B. 
You are mistaken in the first word, and so all along. You call the Declaration for Sports, a grant of liberty to the people. That is true, though they need not such a grant, for they will take it without leave; But it was a Law and Command to the Pastors, To give their people that liberty. Secondly, You call them harmless Sports, and lawful pass-times. You should understand, That these very names, sports and pass-times, are not compatible, not any way congruous with so sacred a Time, as is The Lords Day: Therefore the Bishops should not have distinguished of sports, but have cast-them-out, as neither Civil, nor Harmless nor Manlike; but the contrary: nor lawful (specially mixed dancing) on any day, most unlawful and brutish on the Lord's Day. Thirdly, You say, That this Declaration for Sports, work contrary to the Bishop's meaning; and that the effects were by accident. We say the Declaration worked according to the heart of the Bishop, And that such effects, as we have now seen, were in the nature of the thing; as well as in the nature of the people.  A. 
You must remember, That there were two very godly expressions in the Declaration for Sports, whereby the Bishops did declare a very pious meaning sure. The first; That they commanded no other sports, but what would make the people fit for war, that is the expression.  B. 
A godly expression said you, and declaring a godly intent! by giving the people a liberty to sport and passeaway a sacred Time, with Whitson-Ales, May-games, etc. thereby to make the people fit for war! I'll tell you a Story, whereby you shall be enabled to give Judgement upon this. Cyrus, a brave Commander, vexed still with the Lydians, a very warlike people, bethought himself of a way to tame the Lydians, and to make them sober men, by making them first drunk with wine, and sotted with pleasures; for thus it was; Cyrus sets forth a gracious Declaration unto them; gave the Lydians the same liberty then, which the Bishops gave to the people now, A licence to setup Alehouses; 
Cauponias' ●t ludicras artes exercere.  To exercise their bodies, and refresh their minds with sports, pass-times, games, etc. I put a Question now, and crave your answer; Was Cyrus his intent, by this grant of liberty unto the Lydians, To make them fit or unfit for war?  A. 
Unfit sure.  B. 
You have spoken like a man, the very Truth, for so it was; A very warlike people before, becomes as weak as water presently after; And, to give you in short, what Aelian contributes to this Story; These people were so delighted in dancing, That they taught their horses to dance: So when the horses heard the Trumpet and the Drum, they thought it was the Taber and the Pipe, so the horses fell to dancing, and gave up their Riders to the spoil. And now if you cannot, the present time shall declare the Bishop's meaning, and the purpose of those words; To make the people fit for war; (i. e.) make a people fit for destruction, To be devoured by the mouth of the sword, as it is at this Day. The people were made drunk with wine, and strong drink, and drunk with pleasure, Now the Lord has made them drunk with their own blood in their own Land. We, by command from the Bishops, have blasphemed God's Name; polluted His day; defiled His Sanctuaries; Now The LORD has made us fit for war Now He has given us for a spoil, and to the Robbers, He has powered upon us the fury of 
Isa 42. ω.  His anger, and the strength of Battle. And do we complain, That our Cities are, some of them, wasted, and othersome, impoverished? Let us admire, That our Cities are not all so wasted, and left without Inhabitants; That all are not made as Sodom, and like unto Gomoral● That is the wonder, and the patience of a God That a God, so provoked, should be so gracious, there is matter for wonder.  A. 
To interrupt you a little, I must tell you, That the Declaration for sports and Pass-times, does declare its self against silthy Tiplings and drunkenness, The other expression, very godly and gracious! express against Tippling, that swinish sin, forbidding it in express terms.  B. 
You are mistaken; That Declaration commands Riot, Luxury, Drunkenness. Intemperance, and wantonness, Though not directly, and in express words, yet by most necessary & undoubted consequence, as an effect from the cause, which being natural and sufficient, includeth the effect, and always giveth it. It is true, There was an express forbidding of filthy Tiplings, and Drunkenness, for so run the words; They are but words; Filthy Tiplings, and Drunkenness, and Rioting in 
2 Pet. 2. 13  the day time, all these were in that Charter for liberty, as in the root; As Death was in the Pot; As a fall in pride; As destruction and death, in sin and rebellion. It is not possible to countenance Whitsun-Ales, and discountenance Drunkenness; To Command Wakes, and forbidden Tiplings; To allow of setting-up Maypoles, and other sports therewith used, and disallow of Chambering and Wantonness. If I grant the cause, I cannot forbid the effect, no more than I can forbid a stone to fall downward, or an Eagle to hasten to its prey; no more than I can forbid the fire to burn, or the Sun to shine. But if I take away the fuel, than the fire will go out. No man will show himself so uncivil, and below himself, as to Command Drunkenness, Intemperance, wantonness, in plain terms; Nor need we a command to do that, wherein our natures too much command us; Where the law of nature speaks, no need it should be assisted by a Commandment; We carry about us a law in our members, which leads us captive to the law of sin. If a Magistrate will be entreated for the erecting & supporting of bloody dens, Schools of misrule, nurseries of the Gallows (so blessed Bolton calls Alehouses) he doth encourage and support swinish Drunkards, worse than swine in the Church, and more harmful than they in that garden; Set open the Alehouse, you may be sure some body will come reeling out. The same may be said of setting up Maypoles, and countenancing other sports thereto belonging; You cannot command them, and forbidden the taking pleasure to riot in the day time. We do not read, (and it is worth our observation) that Balaam did command the people to commit whoredom with the daughters of Moah. He did not point Zimri and Cosb● to go to the Tent in the face of the Congregation and on that solemn day; he had more civility than so. Balaam 
Numb. 24. 14. Chap. 31. 16. See Trem.  did advise, only so and no more. Balaam was an old Man; as he was, so his counsel must be, grave, not seemingly sour, nor apparently uncivil. Let Isra●l and Moab come to an interview; let them see each others faces; let them be present at each others sacrifices. This was the Counsel, but worse than a curse, for now folly will be committed in I●●●l no doubt of that: And then The GOD of Israel will be offended wi●h Israel He will departed, and then a curse follows, as certain as when the Cloud is thick, The thunderclap follows (in our senses) the sparkling flash; Bad Counsel is worse than sour Counsel, and more poison u●, for by bad counsel, not sour counsel, Balaam taught Balack To lay a stumbling block before Israel, as the Spirit calleth 
a Rev. 2. 14  it: And it proved in the issue sour counsel too; Israel found it so, as we read 
b Numb. 25. 9 1 Cor. 10. 8 . To apply here; The Bishops did not command Idolatry, saying, Go serve other gods. No, but they setup Altars, That was enough to defile the whole Land, and to make a people commit adultery with stones and with stocks 
c Jer. 3. 9 . The Bishops did not command Tippling and Drunkenness. No; But they commanded sports and pass-times, Whitson-Ales, and Maypoles; Allow the cause, and countenance that, you allow the effect, and countenance that also which naturally issueth thence. If the maid lay leaven in three pecks of meal, she need not command it to sour the whole lump; Put fire and fuel together, you need not bid it to burn; Set a desirable object before the eye, you need not command the heart to lust after it; Set the windows, doors, gates all open, you need not bid the enemy enter; A small spark falling into gunpowder, you know what it will do, whether you will or no, or though you command the contrary. And you know as well, That they, who command Wakes, Whitson-Ales, setting up Maypoles, and other sports therewith used, do command filthy Tiplings, and Drunkenness, and other abuses in such distempers usual. I have been the longer upon this, to clear your judgement in so necessary a point. I proceed now to the next Question; Did the Bishops but endeavour, was it but their seeking only, To turn the Deputy from the faith? 
Act. 13. 8.   A. 
I cannot make answer here, for I cannot tell whose endeavour, and seeking it was; I can tell All are turned from the Faith, King and Bishop, Priest and people, and all; All are turned away from God, that is clear enough. The Church and State are turned up-side down, what possibly Churchmen could do, But who was the chiefest Artist, and Turner here, that I cannot so well tell.  B. 
If you cannot, you are content to be informed at this point from them who can tell us from ancient Records, That the Bishop turned the Deputy from the faith, and with him very much people; we will read the Records; but consider with me first, How high the Bishop's Power and Authority was?  A. 
How high the Bishop's Power? He was not in the Zenith 
d The Zenith is the highest point in the heavens over your head: The Nadar is that point of earth your foot stands upon; The place where the Popes must be laid, and their honours in the Dust.  of the Church, for there only the Pope sits. Take it at the height of its elevation, The Bishop's power was but Derivative, as a stream from the See of Rome; a bastard-power from the Pope.  B. 
You are mistaken, our Bishop's power was as independent as the Pope's power is; as absolute a Pope in his Diocese (and that was all over the Land) as the Pope is all over the Christian world: And all his Actions, Dictates, Determinations, etc. were as Magisteriall and Pope-like, as ever were the Bishops in Rome. But I pray you consider with me, what I was about to say, but that you interrupted me.  
2. What an influence (like some malignant Star) the Bishop's power had, from the Council-table, Starr-chamber, every Court and place, into the affairs and transactions of Church and State.  
3. Inquire we of ancient days, and we shall well understand, That, while the Priests were good, The King was good: When the people might say, He is a very good Priest; Then they might say, He is a very good King. Jehojada an excellent Priest, for he made a Covenant between 
2 Chron. 23. 16.  God, the King, and the People; That all should be, not their own, but The LORDS People; an excellent Priest he. So was Joash the King, as forward and zealous (to say no more) as the Priest was 
* Ver. 6. . The Priest's zeal kindled the King's zeal, made it fervent and boyling-hott; So it was like the burning of thorns, quickly in a flame, and as quickly out; It was not a zeal, a fire from above; But this is the point; So long as the Priest was excellently good, a living example before the King's eye, so long the King was good. Zechariah, a very good Priest too, And in his days, Vzziah was a very good King, for he sought God in the days of 
2 Chro. 26  Zechariah: and all that while he prospered: I might be large, we will read but one or two Records more; The one tells us;  
4. That the Temple, and the Temple-worke there, was never defiled, while the chief Priests there did their office. It is true, The King fretted against the Priests, and stormed against the LORD, till the LORD 
2 Chron. 26. 20.  smote him in his forehead, than he was calm and still; But while the chief Priest, and fourscore more with him, did their office, all was well, except the King; It was ill with him, who did fret against the Priests, because they did their office, and against The Lord, That charged them so; It was ill with him. But the Censer and the Sacrifice was in their hands, unto whom it did belong, To offer unto the LORD, and serve before Him. Let us record one example more, and that will relate to these times. King Ahaz had a servant, a Right man for his service; But as vile a Priest as was in all Judah; What was the King? If any man makes it a question, The sacred Records will resolve him, As miserable a King, as his Idolatries, & other abominations could make him: And his Priest, the basest servant in the world, a slave to his Master's lusts, and his own; The Priest hastened his Master's destruction, for he did, according 
2 Kings 16. 16.  to all that King Amaze Commanded; I have read the Records What is the result from thence? You must tell us; for from the premises, you have drawn the Conclu●ion; I pray you what is it?  A. 
That, I● it be now▪ as in ancient days it has been, than the Bishop is the Witch, the Sorcerer, he is the cunning Artist, he turns all up-side down, he has turned the King, and people from the faith.  B. 
There is no new thing under the Sun, What was, now is; like Priests, like people; Brutish Priests, brutish people. And now sigh you have answered me so clearly to this, I'll ask you no more questions; I will not ask you whether the Bishops endeavoured only To defile the house of GOD, and the services there? Not; whether they setup their Thresholds, by God's Thresholds 
* Ezech. 43. 8. Adhibendo traditiones suas ad praecepta mea. Jun. ? Not, whether they thrust GOD out of His House, and His servants out of their houses, and God's House also? Not, whether they have thrust His servants into corners, and out of the Land? Not, whether they have used Gods precious ones, villainously? All this is as clear to all the Christian world, as is the noon day: And indeed, you have yielded to all this, when you granted, what you could not deny, That the Bishops setup Altars, and made gods. Will the GOD of gods endure this, To be mated in His own house with gods of man's own making? Surely, surely, This is enough to cause the LORD to measure us, as He did Judah and Israel; or (to relate unto Times nearer hand) to streteh over this Land also, the line of Germany, and the Plummet of the Palatinate-house, To cause the Land to be wiped, 
2 King. 21. 13.  as a man wipeth a dish, wiping it and turning it upside-down; Enough and enough, (so much as a man can do, and was in his power) To make all the Inhabitants of the Land Papists and Atheists all; Setting-up Altars, and making of gods, has done all this; O wonderful! That all this has been done here before the face of His Holiness, and yet He has spared, He has not meated out unto us, as unto other Lands; He has not wiped the Land yet as a maid wipeth a dish; He has not made our Land Hormah 
* Numb. 21. 3. , utter Destruction, or Anathema, a curse; Not yet, Though these abominations are found here; And yet behold ● greater Abomination than has been shown hitherto, which I shall not declare here.  A. 
I pray you let us hear all; declare what you can declare; show me ●●d the world, that other Abomination.  B. 
You must spare me, and yourself that trouble; Indeed I can say nothing touching the Bishop's example, that is the abomination, my words cannot reach unto it; how provoaking! how defiling! how corrupting! how spreading! No leprosy so infecting, so destroying. This how cannot be expressed; A Bishop's Example! A Bishop, and setup Altars! A Bishop, and make gods! Ah LORD, how many thousand thousand souls, has a Bishop's example Destroyed! He has by his abominable Doctrines (as we heard,) he has thrust away King and people from the worship of their GOD; By his example, he has commanded 
a Persuadet lingua jubet vita Athan. , forced 
b Gal. 2. 14 Cogi eos dicit, qui exemp●o Petri, Judaizabant Jun. . compelled King and people to serve other gods. I can say nothing touching this Abomination; I confess it is hard to forbear; but I do forbear, for your sake, That you may now take the more scope, and liberty, to say what you have to say for Archbishops, and Bishops, Their government, their office, their Name. Come, gird up your loins, and speak like a man; What say you?  A. 
Truly I have much to say, yet nothing at all against that you have spoken from the word of God, and Judgement from His mouth, upon the Bishops. I can yield unto your hearts desire, That our two Archbishops ought to be thrust-out; Nay, more, That those two (I ever except a third, The Primate of Ireland) ought to be hanged-up by the necks; for, we know what one has done; and it is as legible what the other does; he fights stoutly for the Pope his Lord; I could yield you-up some of the Bishops too, to the Justice of the Law, to be hanged by the neck, or roasted in the fire; I could yield you up our Wren, etc. But to tell you, what grieveth me, I cannot endure to hear all the Bishops jumbled together, like Chest-men in a bag, honest men and— together; Two Metropolitan Bishops, & one Primate together; Great men, and mean men, together; vile men, and precious men, together; you have made no distinction; I profess unto you, you have so confounded the persons, that I cannot find out the Primate of Ireland, nor difference him from another Bishop, (now he is in Oxford) where all the Bishops are, or where all their hearts are: You have made such a minglemangle one with another, that I cannot singleout Bishop Wren, that vile man, from Bishop Hall, that precious man: You have, as I said at first, jumbled them together, like Chest-men in a bag: You should have considered, how sound some of them have preached, [but some; some not at all; very few oftener than once a year, and then not sound neither] what good books they have written. And touching the Ceremonies, how clear they are for the innocency of the same. All this you should have considered, and not have jumbled them all together. Indeed I am grieved, that you cannot distinguish better.  B. 
Truly I would grieve no honest man; and I hope to clear my words so unto you, That they shall be no grief to your heart. You say I have jumbled the Bishops all together, like Chest-men in a bag. I'll answer you to that first, and grant, so I have done, and purposely I have done it, for mighty reason, for so they jumbled the days of the week, the seventh Day with the six days, they made no difference, no distinction at all. Distinction! No, They marred their Lord's day more than any Day. I grant you, they have done some good works; So did Alexander the Great, greater works than they; But Alexander killed his dear friend Calisthenes; Him, who dearly loved Alexander, and the King both; and ever after that, when it was alleged for the honour of Alexander, That he had done such and such great things; It was checked with this; He did so indeed, but he killed his true and honest friend, Calisthenes, he killed him; And that darkened all his glory to his dying day. So when it is said, The Bishops, some few of them, have written good books; Yes, but they have polluted the Lords Day; which, if there were no more, is enough, to slain their glory, while the world stands; But there is more. Have they, the best of them, answered their names? have they magnified their office? have they given attendance to 
1 Tim. 4. 1●. Ezek. 22. 30. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉  reading, to exhortation, to doctrine? or, when The LORD sought for a man amongst them, I say a man *, to speak for Him, was there a man amongst them, the Bishops all, that did appear? They should have taken His people by the hand now in this day of their trouble, do they 
A man indeed that has the fire of zeal in him, will stand in the breach till he has hedgedup the hedge.  do it? I say again, do they do it? or do they take the people of GOD by their throats? GOD is witness, even GOD is witness. He is witness also, What blasphemies they have heard belched-out from the Pulpit, and they were silent the while, and afterwards. What hard words have they heard in the Court, pointed out against His hidden ones, which they reproved not? Reproved not! encouraged rather; God knows, what ungodly deeds they have seen! and how the best of the Bishops have strengthened the hand of the wicked, doing violence to the godly! GOD knows all this; He knows, even the Holy One, who trieth the reins, and searcheth the hearts, & understanddeth the thoughts long before. He knows, That the best of them have dealt most corruptly in His matters; most treacherously with His people in the Day of visitation; most wickedly in the Covenant; The best of them is a briar; 
Mich. 7. 4.  Th● most upright is sharper than a thorne-hedge; The day of Thy Watchmen and Thy visitation cometh, now shall be their perplexity, Amen.  A. 
I cannot join with you; You should have pulled out the Primate hence, and Bishop Hall, before you had said Amen; Why man, The LORD bids you put a difference betwixt the good and the bad; the precious and the vile; And, when the LORD visits a people in wrath 
Psal. 4. 4. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Exo. 8. 22 B. 9 4. 11. 17. Aug. de civet. Dei, l. 1. cap. 9 See Cure of fears. pag. 33.  and indignation, than He sets a mark, He makes a separation, H● marvellously separateth ᵃ. B. He do●● indeed, than He sets apart, than He separates indeed. Then He sets a mark, a legible mark, a proper and peculiar mark upon His chosen ones. But not visible to a common eye; as it was in the 4. Psalm, and other places. No; good and bad▪ the precious, and the vile, are carried away with the same flood of GOD'S wrath; there is no distinction made to your outward eye, for the reasons intimated before, more fully set down in that notable Chapter, pointed to in the margin ᵇ; But because I find your spirit grieved, I'll open the sacred Records, and read what we find there; This, That 
Num. 25. 3.  Israel joined himself unto Baal-Peor (an abominable Idol:) and the anger of The LORD was kindled against Israel. What was Israel's Idolatry 
Primari●s populi, jun.  to their Governors, and Chieftains, the Heads of Israel ᶜ? Yes to them, and they must suffer for it. What! The people joined to Baal-Peor, and the Heads of the people lookers-on! They must be hanged up all for that. It is the Charge of the LORD; Take all the heads of the people, and hang them up. All the heads; you will observe that, All. Doubtless, some heads did not contrive for the setting up, or serving that shame 
d Hos. 9 ●0.  Nay, doubtless some heads, there, thought the setting up that shame, and serving before it, To be as abominable, as any heads amongst us judged the Declaration for sports (that shame) to be, even so abominable. Nay, doubtless, could they have maintained their honours, and headships amongst and over the people, they would have withstood that abominable service, the people's joining to Baal-Peor, that shame; But not one, not one man was found, that would do as Phineas did; not a man, that would show his head appearing for GOD, and against that shame: Therefore, Take all the heads, and hang them up; Where? Before The LORD, before whose glorious eye, they committed that abomination; And because not one of these men would show their heads, would appear for their Lord; hang them up before the Sun; put them to shame; make them a public example; show them openly; make them a spectacle; set their heads before that Sun (which they made an Idol) that all may point at them with the finger, and say, These are they, who did slink away, who hide their heads, would not appear when time was, for their Great Lord, and Master in heaven: Now they do appear; Now they are shown openly before the Sun. It must be so done, it ought to be so done for GOD has said it; Take all the HEADS of the people, and hang them-up before the LORD against the Sun, that the fierce anger of the 
Numb. 25. 4.  LORD may be turned away from Israel. Look you well upon it, consider it well, and you must conclude from hence, That all the Bishops, the chief, the Primate, and Metropolitan, the great men, and mean men, all must be thrust down, all cast-out: I'll carry it no higher than to a thrusting down, a casting-out; Hang them-up before the LORD, and against the Sun, That I leave to the Judges, as it followes*; But if you 
Vers. 5. 6.  will not yield so far for the Thrusting all the Bishops down, and casting them all out; Then I must say, you are the man, who will not be satisfied from reason, or Scripture, nor from the mouth and command of GOD.  A. 
I am satisfied; I yield them up all patiently to the Justice of the Law: And I say now, Currat lex siat justicia, ruat mundus; Let the Law have its course; let Justice be done, though the earth shake, and the kingdoms be moved, yea, shattered to pieces, let Justice be done. Amen, But  B. 
What another But yet, and so out of place! you are not satisfied, I perceive, touching this All.  A. 
Yes that I am, content, That all these Archbishops (they are but two) be thrust out; And all these Bishops every man; Take them, even All the heads, and etc.  B. 
Speak out man, the terror of an Archbishop, or a Lord, cannot make you afraid now, GOD will be terrible to them, speak out; And hang them-up before the Sun that follows.  A. 
True, But I was speaking for them, yet indeed I am ashamed, but I consider, All your Allegations are but vitia personarum, these may be thrust away, or hanged-up before the Sun, and others thrust into their places, for indeed Arch-biships are venerable for their Antiquity.  B. 
Ah Lord! What a word is that! The same word will serve to establish error, very ancient, Truth, its opposite, but a few house's before it. Venerable for Antiquity! You may say as much for the Devil too▪ that old Serpent. Venerable for Antiquity! So is Sunday and Monday, and so through the whole week, (and Saints days, as we fools miscall them) anciently called by those names by the Heathen in honour to the Sun, and to the Queen of heaven. Venerable for Antiquity! So is the Pope too, and his Cardinals more ancient than he, if you will believe them, or their Advocate; for he and they conclude from sacred Scripture too, (see what Interpreters they are) That the Cardinals are two days older than the Moon; They were in the firmament of the Church, before the Moon was set in the heaven, as they collect very wisely from the Text 
1 Sam. 2. 8 See child's patrimony pag. 104.  pointed to in the Margin; I will not contend with you, nor you with me; you shall have your saying, Archbishops are venerable for their Antiquitis: So you say, so I say; we are agreed: Archbishops are as ancient as Paganism, as Heathenism in this Land: They were here before the Land was Christian; And now that this Land must be the LORDS Land, and the people there, The LORDS people, Christians indeed, now shall Arch bishops be no more.  A. 
Let Antiquity go, I see it will do them no good, but a necessity there is, there should be Archbishops.  B. 
A necessity! then there is reason for it, and Law both: but there is neither; He be as plain with you as a pack-staff. Tell me. when I have told you; There ar● several flocks of sheep in the Land, a Shepherd over every flock; so careful we are of our sheep, that harmless, useful cattles: And great reason for that; Now tell me; What reason or Law is there, That there should be a great, a Catholic Shepherd to o●ersee all these Shepherds; have you any Reason or Law for that?  A. 
No truly, That there should be a great Overseer over small overseers.  B. 
I thought so; Therefore I know there is no necessity.  A. 
I must grant it; but there is a Decency.  B. 
A Decency! worse and worse; You should remember your charge, To speak as the Oracle of GOD, and as in the ears of GOD. You do not answer your charge, when you say, That the being of Archbishops in a Church, makes for the decency in the Church. I answer you, there are not archangels in heaven: And is it decent, there should be Arch bishops or Primates on earth? There is no decency in it at all. I know you will forsake that Argument.  A. 
Well: But they say, there can not be a glorious Church without Archbishops.  B. 
A foppery! I had almost said a blasphemy; I shall say it anon. The Church is glorious in heaven, you will say, and yet there be no Archbishops there, all men say.  A. 
I have heard them highly extolled, commended, and praised.  B. 
For what, for their virtues?  A. 
Yes.  B. 
So was Hildebrand 
* Beno Cardinalis Aventinus, making his entry to speak of Pope Hildebrand, saith thus; Now must I speak of wars, slaughters, murders, killing of fathers strives, hatreds, fornications, robberies, spolings, of common treasure, spoilings of Churches, debates and seditions more than civil.  the Pope praised, who had poisoned six Popes his predecessors, w●s a Conjurer and raiser of Devils and threw the Sacrament into the fire. This man was commended for his virtues. Judas has been comcommended above the Apostles. Commended! Is that any news, when Robbers, Murderers, Rebels, Traitors, vile, and treacherous Priests, and persons are highly commended at this day; they are honoured, dignified, titles of grace and honour are conferred upon them? To say all in a word, the Anti-Parliament, the Parliament in Oxford, consisting of the outcasts from this Parliament, Oxford Parliament I say, the refuse, the garbage of the land, that Parliament is commended. Will you put any force in praise and commendations? I pray you know from me, that a quartane Ague has been praised: so has folly been exalted by very learned men. Nay, I could read you a long oration in the praise of a Louse. If I should tell you what persons and flatuous things have been commended, I should make you laugh hearty. But we are serious. Certainly that Argument will not hold neither. But to speak-out plainly, and all in a word. It is blasphemy for a man to take unto himself that honour.  A. 
I grant it to be blasphemy in the Pope's mouth.  B. 
In the Pope's mouth! It is blasphemy in the man's mouth, who will assume unto himself that name (that incommunicable name) Archbishop, or Primate, for he is Pope, the mouth that speaks blasphemies, as truly Pope in London, as Pope Leo was in Rome. To dispatch this, and to clear your judgement from the clearest light; I pray you consider, That the Lord Jesus Christ, Blessed for ever, is (if I might use our Dialect) the Archbishop and Primate in heaven and earth: And the Seven Spirits is His Vicar-general; He is the great Shepherd, the sole Monarch, the King of Kings and Lord of Lords. And because the Gian●s of the world, and Lords of the earth; because Almighty Kings (in their conceit, thinking they have an arm like God, and so) Lordlike Bishops, have set themselves against this Lord and King; therefore has this Lord and King set his face against them: He has taken to Himself power, and an Iron rod into his hand, and now we see him thrash the Nations like straw, and the Hills like chaff: and coming upon Princes 
Isa. 41. 15. 25.  as upon mortor: Now we see him smiting the earth terribly, nor will he leave smiting till the bloodshed there be discovered; till the gods there be starved, till the Idols there be cast out to the Moles and to the Bats; 
Isa. 2.  now we see him shaking Kingdoms and Crowns, nor will he leave shaking, till he have shattered and broken them to pieces, because they would not be the Lords Kingdoms, nor would they with the Elders, cast down their crowns before the Throne. If they continue obstinate, if 
〈◊〉 4: 10  they will not rule for Christ, if they will not submit unto Him, than thus and thus the Lord Christ will do unto them, that all the Kingdoms of the earth may know, The Lord Christ reigneth, there is a God, that judgeth in the earth. But who shall bold out while he sees these things accomplished? They that wait patiently for the Lord, (for here is the patience of the Saints) They that leave God to his own time, work and way; do their own work faithfully, take hold of the Almighty arm, wrap up their souls in a promise touching this matter, so they are at peace: And this peace of God which passeth all understanding▪ shall keep their hearts in perfect peace, peace, peace, Amen.  A. 
I 〈◊〉 you have not done.  B. 
Ye● indeed have I, unless you have any more to say for Archbishops; have you?  A. 
Not a word; I could by't my tongue for saying so much. But I have much to say for Bishops, that others may be put into their rooms, that the Bishop's government may be continued, their office, and their name.  B. 
I see you will trouble me, and I am content with the trouble, so it may ease your mind, and give you content. But touching the government by Bishops, I thought verily you were resolved clearly, and fully, that it is Antichristian, are you not?  A. 
No indeed not I  B. 
I see your memory fails you, not your understanding; you have understood that the head of this bulky body is reprobate silver; what will you think then of the other members of this body? What of the tail? What of the f●ot? Nay, you understand that the head of this body (nay the heads, and that argues it is a monstrous body) the Archbishop, is struck-off by his own hand, a slain man 
b An Idolater is a slain man: I will cast down your ●lain men. Ezek. 6. 4. . For to say all in a word, which you heard before; in that head is the mouth that speaks blasphemies, he is a slain man, cast out as an abominable branch. Will you plead now for any part of this body: For the shoulders? they are the Bishops. Or the Belly? That is their Courts. Or the Thighs? They are the Chancellors, Commissaries. Or Feet? They are their Proctors, and Doctors, what shall I call them? They are the Bishop's Purvayers, and Caterers, to serve the Bishop's lusts and their own: Will you contend for these?  A. 
I tell you, I contend for the government by Bishops.  B. 
A government! If you have the government, you must have the governor's, Archbishops and Bishops, Archdeacon's and Deacons, Chancellors and Commissaries, you must have their Courts too, with their Doctors and Proctors there, the most notorious—, I want a word whereby to express their villainies and notorious insolences; you must have that— garbage too, their Emissaries, their Paritors, those execrable rabble that stink all the world over. All these you must have. Will you contend for these? or will you have all this prodigious government and governor's sink down and fall into the earth, from which it had its rise and original, after the Archbishops?  A. 
I would have the government stand.  B. 
You would anger a Saint! pray you consider, the Bishops are but the Archbishop's hands: the other officers (not worth the recording) are but Instruments in the Bishops' hands. Will you contend that these brethren in iniquity, instruments of the Devil, that these should be reserved and kept alive; will you contend for this?  A. 
Yes indeed will I, life is a precious thing: I'll pray that they may be kept alive, that is, that the Governors may continue in their full force, power and virtue, notwithstanding any law (though God's law) to the contrary.  B. 
A pitiful man! But it is a foolish pity, and spoils a City and Kingdom both: had you lived in the days of joshua, you would have been a very earnest suitor to him, That Achans silver, his garment, and his wedge of gold, and his sons and his daughters, and his oxen and his 
Ios. 7. 24.  asses, and his sheep and his tent, and all that he had, might be preserved, would you not?  A. 
Yes surely, it would have grieved me to have seen all those persons and things to perish before mine eye, as it grieved the Singing-men that were in Paul's, to see the Priests— (what do you call them) vestments, or horse trappings, to be burnt there before their noses: so it would have grieved me to have seen such an execution, such a destruction.  B. 
You have more wit than you show: for in showing your pity, you had seemed wiser than Josua and all Israel; For Joshua and all Israel with him took Achan, and all the forementioned with him, stoned him and them: then burned persons and things. (Do you mark that? stoned them first, and burned them after; stoning was not enough, they must be burnt too) Then they raised a monument there, and there they set a mark, they called it the valley of Anchor: (i. e.) a valley of trouble, and perplexity: Achan had troubled all Israel, he and all his must be troubled for that, neither persons nor things must be spared. Junius gives us a large note upon the place, the sum is, to teach us, how contagious a thing sin is, and how execrable the instruments of sin are. Can you apply this to the persons and things in hand?  A. 
Yes I thank God.  B. 
That is well; but if you can apply it indeed, you will be ware you do not yourself trouble Israel: nor will you have a word to say for them that are troublers there.  A. 
Not a word for Troublers, yet I must speak for the government: for indeed we idolise it, we dote upon it, we must have it.  B. 
If there were no other reason but that, for the abolition of that government, that were enough; we make it an Idol, we dote upon it, therefore it shall be taken away. But will we have the Government still, than we must have the Governors still. And now if I should tell you what horrible, prodigious, execrable,— (I want a word) murders, villainies, have been committed by those Governors and their servants, (slaves rather) I should make your ears tingle.  A. 
I think so too: But you could tell me no more than the faults of persons only, and their Courts, no more. Might not the persons be purged, and the Courts too, and the government preserved? Though there be no Catholic Bishop (an Archbishop) yet might there be a Diocesan Bishop. And now I have told you what we would have, (and our meaning) a Diocesan Bishop we would have.  B. 
Very well: But you must explain your meaning now, what do you mean by a Diocesan Bishop? Or what is a Diocese?  A. 
I cannot tell: It is Greek to me.  B. 
To me also 
b 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. . But you a strange man to conclude for that, which is Greek to you, you understand not: You contend for a Bishop over his Diocese, and you know not what his Diocese is. I'll tell you as well as I can, for it is a strange word. A Diocese is a government in an house, or in the place we commonly call the Church, and they have stretched it all over the City and Country; I mean, they have enlarged the Diocese, they have so out compassed it, that all the Bishops in the land, were they Bishops indeed, could not be sufficient for that place, to fill up such a roomth: they have rendered it so capacious, that their Diocese contains more roomth, than Philippi, a City in Macedonia contained, and yet they allow but one Bishop there, whereas by the express word of GOD, there ought to be Bishops and Deacons 
b Philip. 1. 1. . To inform you yet more fully, I will tell you a story. A request was made, (who made it, or to whom, is not pertinent) for such a length of ground as an Oxes-hide would cover (or rather be stretched unto.) A modest request, it was granted; a small spot of ground would be covered with an Ox's skin. The petitioners make much of the gift; for they did not do as our Curriers do, and as Homer, after his manner, relates the manner very fully, they did not tug at it to stretch it out, that it might fillip as much as possibly the hide could hold: But they cut large thongs out of it, as we say, and so stretched and tentered those thongs, that they could reach over so much ground, as thereon to build a City as capacious as Philippi was, King Philip's town, and there they placed, if I well remember, one Regent. Here was a notable policy to get ground. Truly the Bishop has dealt as politicly with the Diocese, he has made it wide, and large, he has cut large thongs out of it, he has gained much ground (if all be gain that comes to his hand) he has built a palace thereon, and found a Lordship there; and there he (was) there he had elbow-roomth enough, and was a Lord in his Diocese. Do you understand what an overgrown thing this Diocese is? How the Bishop hath lengthened it? what incomes the Bishop hath from it? what provisions were made for him there? And yet Lucullus coenat cum Lucullo [as he said when he had prepared a supper for a King▪ which he al●ne did partake of.] All these provisions and preparations are but for one Bishop: all this to cram and fatten one Capon (that was his name who was predecessor to Mr.  (of him anon) as vile as the other was precious. You know a Diocesan Bishop now, and what his Diocese is; A monstrous thing, wherein I know not how many hundred parishes are crowded-up together, that there may be more roomth for the Lord. You understand this?  A. 
Yes, I thank you; I understand your meaning fully, That you would have a Bishop in every Parish.  B. 
My understanding is not clear there: For to be brief with you; First, I do not allow of the name Bishop; and I believe, when I shall have told you something about it, as I shall anon, you will not allow the name neither. 2. And for a Parish, I do not well understand that division, or who made that distinction.  A. 
Can you tell what you would have?  B. 
Yes, I thank God; I would have in such a place as Philippi was, Bishops and Deacons, for that is according to Gods express will. 
Phil. 1. 1.   A. 
Very true: But how many Bishops and Deacons must there be for such a place as Philippi was?  B. 
I cannot tell the number. But there must be a Bishop and Deacons for every Diocese.  A. 
So think I too: one Bishop for one Diocese, non est elenchus inter nos, we are agreed.  B. 
True; but than it must not be a Diocese stretched out and tentered, as the Oxes-hide was, beyond all imagination. We were concluded even now, that that is properly a Diocese, which one man can oversee: and whereunto his voice can reach, when his people are assembled in their meetingplace.  A. 
A meetingplace! Why not a Church?  B. 
Your question is not to purpose, therefore you shall have no answer. Can you except against any word, that has been last spoken touching the Diocese, and the Bishop there? that is the question.  A. 
In effect I have answered already, No, for what you have spoken, is the express will and word of GOD. But you seem to hold, that there is no superiority in the Church: quit yourself there first, that I may resolve others touching that great objection.  B. 
That I will: These words Bishops and Deacons 
a Tit. 1. 5. , (not my words) hold forth the contrary, so also these, and ordain Elders ᵃ: These words do infer, not only, That the Ministers are above their people; but that there is a superiority amongst themselves; nature, sense, reason; the natural body, if we should go over it, and observe the parts from top to toe, will clear all this. There is the head, and so downward; put your finger into your mouth (that is the little world's heaven) there are upper and lower teeth, but all do the same service for the body. It is so in the body politic; There are some for Counsel, they are heads; Some for direction, they are eyes; Some to uphold and bear up others, they are shoulders; Some for action, they are hands; It is so in the house of Parliament, two houses they say; there are Speakers in both, to whom all turn themselves when they speak; Superiors for the time, and when the work is done, than there may be a change. It is so in every Court, a Chair there, and some one sitting in it. It is so in the Assembly of Divines; every where, in Church, chapel, House. It is fit it should be so, nay, it must be so. What a fond conceit is it then to think, That there cannot be Overseers in the Church, but they must be everlasting Lords, and as perpetual Dictator's? There is a distinction of gifts, of graces; therefore of persons, and of places. How gross a mistake now to think, That we allow of no Superiors, because we abhor those that have Lorded it over the LORDS inheritance? We do indeed, for it is express against the command of GOD. I might be large here; but you are a sober man; you are satisfied touching Superiors; and I have quitted myself at that point, have I not?  A. 
Indeed you have. But now, That we are, as our vows are upon us, throwing-down and rooting-out the Hierarchy, that Antichristian, that cursed Government; Its friends make clamours against us; I'll tell you what they say very briefly, (for so you will answer I am sure,) They bring Scripture, and object first; That we speak evil of Dignities. 
Judas 8. Verse 10.   B. 
Bid them say on, things, which we know not; Then bid them prove, That we know not, what the Dignities of Archbishops and Bishops have been: or know not, that they be evil: Bid them prove that; but that they can never do; we know those Dignities are evil; and sigh they call evil▪ good, woe unto them. What say they next? They speak Scripture still; So did the Devil too; What is it?  A. 
That the Archbishops and Bishops, are Powers: Therefore not to be resisted, for there must be no resisting of Powers.  B. 
Bid them read on; That are ordained of God. Now bid them prove, that Archbishops and Lord Bishops, etc. are ordained of GOD; are the ordinance of God. 
Rom. 13.   A. 
I have enough to choke my adversaries now.  B. 
No, but you have not, They will go on with the argument, but mark how they proceed; Just as a boy that goes upon his head, his heels are upward, and so he spurns against heaven; Just so, these kind of men will goeon, till they have wrought out this conclusion; That the Devil and man's will are to be obeyed; Their Reason, for they are POWERS; and all powers are of God; do you observe?  A. 
Yes, very well, and I am sure, I shall be too hard for my Adversaries 
Aug. takes away the honour (Lord) from the Bishop, & leaves him the work: The Bishop does clean contrary, takes to himself all the honour, and leaves the work. Lib. 19 ca 19 1 Tim 3. 1 Thes. 2. 7, 8, 9  at that argument. But I have two words, wherein I would be satisfied before we come to a full stop; The one is touching the office of a Bishop; the other is, touching the name. Concerning both, great things and honourable are spoken, even by GOD Himself. Touching the office first; Can you except against it?  B. 
No indeed can I not; I cannot except against a good work, and that is the office; To give the mind to reading, to exhortation, and to doctrine, that is the office. Naturally to care for the children, exhorting, comforting, charging them (as a Father doth thence his duty is concluded) That is the office. To be gentle among the Children, knowing them by name; affectionately desirous after them, provoaking them by tears; and as a nurse, cherishing them; That is the office. It cannot be blamed, nor the Bishop neither. I mean the man, for he is a father, a nurse; he is that which stands in the nearest relation, importing the tenderest care, and dearest affection, and he is blameless in all. How dare you or I blame him, whom GOD commends?  A. 
So say my Adversaries too; The office is not to be blamed, nor the Bishop; You see both are as ancient as Paul was; And you know too, That a Reverend Father of the Church, has calculated the nativity of the Bishops, and the descent of the office, and he finds the office in heaven; and the Bishops before the ancient Kings in this Land.  B. 
Very true all this. And now you need not tell your Adversaries, That the Reverend Father is answered by the Sons of the Church; ●or that he sta●ed heaven in the face so long, that, at last, he fell into the Ditch: You need not tell your Adversaries this, for they know it well enough. I could tell you now a notable Story, as judicious Calvin tells it me, concerning Maximilian the Emperor, a notable Story, and very pertinent; but I will not trouble you with it, only point at it in the Margin 
* Calvin upon Isa. cap. 19 11. ; And so question you a little; Do you think, that Paul means by office, and Bishop, the Government of a Catholic and universal Bishop, (an Archbishop) or Diocesan, and Lord Bishop, do you think so?  A. 
I cannot tell what to think.  B. 
No; why I told you before, their office cannot be found in the earth.  A. 
They have found it in heaven.  B. 
So presumptuously they said, and now you see, though they will, not, that they are brought down to the sides of the pit; You should not put me to repetition, for indeed, what I spoke of their Government, might have sufficed for their office. But read the Text again. The office is a good work, cannot you tell your Adversaries now, what work they have made in the Church, and Commonwealth? I know you can. You read also, That the office of Paul's Bishop was naturally to care for his people; as a father, as a nurse. His office was to feed the flock of Christ. The mighty word of GOD, was the Sceptre of Paul's Bishop, therewith he cast down strong holds: strong rodds 
a Ezek. 19 11.  were the Sceptre of these Bishops; These did not feed▪ but rule the sheep of Christ with a rod of Iron 
b Rev. 2. 27. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, signifies, He shall feed, or rule. The Pope and his Bish. make the later to be the office of a Bishop; So the sheep have had a hard feeding from that interpretation. . You read again; Paul's Bishop must be blameless: were these so?  A. 
What is all this to the office?  B. 
I told you before, and I will repeat it but this once, Their office is not found in heaven, or earth. It is true; If we believe them, they have found their office in heaven, and have executed it upon earth (as we heard) but who will observe the whole Series of things, shall discern plainly, That a curse has cleaven to their office evermore, closer than the Ivy to the wall; or the mortar betwxt the joining of the stones: As it always does to that office, which is not of Gods ordaining, and for which, no man (though for his sincerity, honesty, learning, without exception) can be sufficient. I will not recall here what was said, how cross Catholic Bishops, Lord, or Diocesan Bishops, are to God, and His Word. I will only say what some have said of the Pope, and apply it to ours; Some Popes have been Fathers, but never any Pope an holy Father; And some few, very few, good men, But never any, a good Pope. So also as true of our Bishops, look we over them all, we may find some good men (very few) but not one Good Bishop. And this, I must ever think, is by virtue of the curse, which cleaveth to the office.  A. 
I am in a worse case to answer my Adversary now, than before. Never any a good Bishop! Many good Bishops, say my Adversaries, for many of them were martyrs.  B. 
Not many, if I remember, five only; but twice five were persecuters. Five martyrs will not argue so strongly for the goodness of the office, as twice five against it. Again, Martyrdom does not make a good Bishop; he must render himself good while he lives, by magnifying his office.  A. 
Well, and so they did. Bishop Ridley, and Bishop Latimer; What can you say against them?  B. 
Nothing, not a word, God has accepted them, He has pardoned, It shall be remembered no more; how Bishop Ridley dealt with King Edward the Saint; he would, but I forbear. Nor how Bishop Latimer, that good man, over-taken through Infirmity, did, in a Sermon, comply with a murderer, against the good King's Uncle, the good Lord Protector, too like a Bishop.  B. 
Bishop Hooper, what say you against him.  A. 
Against him! I have much to say for him, an excellent man he! he had his Table full (with good cheer, you will say, and so have our Bishops too, no) full set with company, (he eat not his morsels alone) and they the poorest of his flock, and, which I would have noted, God would have it followed, he fed their souls first from his own mouth, and then their bodies with his meat; his doctrine did drop upon them 
Deut. 32. 2.  as the rain, and his speech distilled as the dew. The meaning is, he Catechised them first, and then said, Eat friends, and be merry, GOD accepteth the work. An excellent man. So was Bishop  too, the Jewel 
Lege vitam Juelli.  of our Church, set as a Diamond there; He gave himself up to the LORD, and His work; he spent and wasted a wearied body therein; and gloried in it, as well he might, that so he did. And it greatly refreshed his dying spirits, when his soul sat on his lips; That he had wasted his body, and spirits too in the work of the LORD, etc. to whom he hath given-up his account with Joy.  A. 
Very well; excellent men these! and were not these good Bishops?  B. 
Look how you force me; yet I will not reply bluntly, No: But this I say, All this argues the goodness of the men; but does not argue the goodness of the Office. They were good men; yes, and good Bishops too: but not so fare as their Diocese reached, for that was all over whole Shires: But so far as they could oversee their flocks, so far as they could quit themselves as good Bishops, catechising their poor people, exhorting, comforting, or as we heard, so fare, and not further. They were good Stewards, and faithful in their administration, (that is as much as is required) so fare as was possible for their oversight and care to reach. We think, and with reason, that a man cannot be said to be a faithful Steward in that house where he never was, nor can know what rooms or what persons are within. I say then, for I would be as plain as I can, so fare as their overfight could extend, (that is, to the compass and extent of that Diocese, explained before) so far they did well, no men ever before them better. We say further, and we think it is no more but what all must grant, That there is a point (easily decernible) where the creatures impotency and weakness must necessarily set bounds to his oversight: if yet he will willingly 
Augustus, Candidus, Philopater, etc. good names, and Sapientiae, justinian's Towns name, exceeded all, but no honour these names to the persons. Salu. lib. 3. ●. & lib. 4. within two leaves of the end. lege Naz. Orat. 21.  and knowingly, for ends best known to himself, if he will lanch-out further beyond these bounds, and so out-bound himself. At that very point of his transgression he shall meet with a curse. In short, the meaning is, To that very point and part of the office, which out-compasseth the officer, thereto the curse cleaveth, which the person may quit himself of, but he shall never quit the Office. And so I have done my best to clear your understanding touching the office.  A. 
Indeed you have cleared the office of a Bishop, now I hope you will allow us the name.  B. 
No matter for my allowance, you need not stand upon that; but yet, I wish you would not contend for a name, an empty thing. A name! what is that, if the man be nought? Cain, a good name, the man not so. Abel a vain name, the man was excellent. I assure you, the vilest men have had the best names; Popes have been called Pious and Innocent both. It is true as the heathen Emperor said, Nomina magna onerosa, great names are great burdens; good names are a good engagement to fillip, to answer their names. A Christian King, a Christian man, is an honourable name; but dishonours him or them very much, who are not answerable to that name, but are against Christ all they can.  A. 
But I pray you, tell me, what is your reason why we should relinguish the name?  B. 
I will; but you must tell me first, the reason why we should retain the name?  A. 
That I can do, I can give one reason which shall have more weight in it, than two of yours, it is a Scripture name, Bishop Timothy, Bishop Titus, and Bishop Peter, Bishop of Rome, as I hear.  B. 
You do not well to tell me what you hear, and neglect what you read, which is this, as Peter speaks of himself, Who am also an Elder. 
d 1 Pet. 5. 1. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. 2 john. .  A. 
He was the chiefest of the Apostles, the Papists say.  B. 
There is no heed to be taken to what they will say, they prattle clean contrary to what Paul says of himself, and Peter of himself. But if you would observe their Acts, and one Chapter there, you would see it as clear as noon day, that Peter was not the chief, (nay, there was no chief amongst them) nor was he Bishop.  A. 
I am sure we have Bishop Timothy, and Bishop Titus: for I can point to the place.  B. 
You can; but neither to the chapter nor the verse, which you might have done, if it had been Canonical. The Bishop hath thrust it into our Bibles, as they have thrust in a whole family of the jesuits 
* Numb. 26. 44. A text as boldly perverted, and so has been ever since 1610. As are the contents before Psal. 149.  into our English Bibles; a notable prank. God has found them out for this, they shall be thrust out, and then our Bible's shall be purged.  A. 
Christ himself is called a Bishop.  B. 
He is not: He is called an Overseer, and so he is; and by his Vicar general, he looks to his flock, he cares for them, he holds them fast, not one of them shall be lost or taken out of his hand. To put you out of doubt, Bishop is not a Scripture name: for it is neither Hebrew, nor Greek, nor Latin, nor does it concern you what it is, only pertinent to this place it is; That it is not a Scripture name, and so your strong reason, as mighty as two, proves nothing, why the name should be retained. Now if it please you, I'll give you my reasons why the name should be abolished.  A. 
It pleaseth me very well: I pray you let me hear them.  B. 
First, because it is a name so greatened and heightened, that we have not roomth enough in the world, not a place big enough, or high enough to contain his Lordship; he has out-compassed a natural body. Let his name go. Secondly, the name is abused, clean perverted, as the name Tyrant is, a good name once, and good English still: for it signifies a King; but when the King stretched his power the contrary way, to the hurt of his people, in stead of doing them good; and to the subversion of his Kingdom, and throwing down laws and liberties, in stead of building all up; Then the name grew odious, and was abolished. The same reason for the abolishing this name; The Bishops, not Prelates, but Pilat's; not Pastors, but Impostors; not Doctors, but seducers, as their unreasonable carriage has caused the Rhyme. They have made the name odious, and themselves abominable. A sufficient reason why the name should be abolished, and themselves, as aforesaid. Thirdly, Bishop is as terrible a name to some, as a Devil is: as pleasing as a God to others. That neither side may be hurt, take it away: It is the Idol of the land, Idolised as much in our days, as the Brazen Serpent was in King Hez●kiahs days. I cannot submit here to another's judgement; I must judge it very reasonable, That, as when the people began to put a religious honour upon the Serpent, than the King would have it called plain Brass. So now, sigh Bishop is so idolised by the common 
2 King. 18. 4.  people, let the name go, and let the man be called a Minister of jesus Christ. If he be so indeed, he will like well of the name, for it is all one, as if he were called, The messenger of the Churches, and the glory of Christ. I might add a fourth reason here, There is no need of the name; Cast it away, and there will be no lack.  
Lastly, should I read you a leaf in the Rhem: Testament, how effectual the holding-up and keeping-in of names has been, for the keeping-in of abominable persons, and things; you would yield me so fare at least, That this name Bishop, is to be abolished. I have done.  A. 
And I am satisfied, and at a sweet agreement in my soul, That Archbishops, Lord-Bishops, their Government and office, is to be thrust-out; and the name abolished. I pray you hearty, give me leave to weep.  B. 
You need not ask leave, you have a command for that; Weep with them that weep. It is sufficient you have a command to weep for your own sins, and others, and for the slain of the people. You have example for it too; To make your couch swim with tears; your eyes flow like rivers; and to make the place you stand in a Bochim 
* Judg. 1. 5 , a place of weeping, for reasons many, from within, and from without; weep and spare not.  A. 
To tell you the truth, I never thought of this kind of weeping; I asked you leave to weep for company with the Kings and Merchants of the earth; Because their gods are taken away, and what have they more?  B. 
O monstrous! weep for company with the Kings and Merchants of the earth! This indeed is to weep with them, that weep; but it is to do as those women did, who sat weeping for Tammuz. 
Ezek. 8. 14   A. 
That is Hebrew, is it not?  B. 
No nor Greek neither; It was an Aegyptian-god, a most abominable Idol: As comely a posture now, for Kings and Merchants of the earth, to sit weeping over the Hierarchy, amore abominable Idol than was that Tammuz.  A. 
I yield to you hearty. But truly I intended to weep in a merriment only, as I have heard one did; and so I'll tell you a Story, to refresh you and myself a little; A little man, but a great Tyrant, was ferrying-over to a place, from whence he must never return: And a poor Cobbler, who was mightily oppressed by that Tyrant, was in the same Boat with him; The Tyrant wept hearty, for he was taken from all his gods, he should see them no more, neither his Palaces, nor his Lordships, and so he cried lamentably. The Ferryman, a merry fellow, would make the Cobbler cry too, and so he did; O me poor Cobbler! I have taken Sanctuary now at the place, where the wicked cease from troubling; where the weary lie at rest; They hear not the voice of the oppressed. O me poor wretch! I shall mend shoes no more; I shall labour no more; I shall feel neither hunger nor thirst any more.  B. 
I'll hear no more, not a word more, though I know it might be well applied. You have made it pretty Christian, yet it is not for this place. I would have you rejoice in all the people's sight, and sing aloud for joy of heart, for so the upright do. Certainly, there is the same cause now to rejoice, as the Church had, when they went through the 
Psal. 66. 6.  flood on foot: There did we rejoice in Him, (our Fathers went over, we rejoice:) And for the same reason, for we say now, as they did then, Thy right hand, O Lord, is become glorious in power, and so forth; for wonderful works follow, as are the works of GOD now adays. Certainly, the Church has the same cause of rejoicing, as it had, when the great Dragon was cast-out; Then was heard a loud voice, saying, in 
Rev. 12. 9, 10.  heaven (in the Church) now is come salvation, etc. read it out. Certainly, the Church's time is coming, nay, it is come, when Babylon must be thrown down. Therefore we must now hear, a great voice of much 
Rev. 18. 21  people in heaven (the Church) saying, Hallelujah, Salvation, and glory, and honour, and power, unto the Lord our God, Amen. 
Rev. 19 1.   A. 
I thank you Sir, you have made good use of my feigned tears, and feigned mirth; you have taught me how to do both in good earnest.  B. 
It is an hard lesson, hear me forth, I pray you, and The LORD grant I may hear myself. (1) If you do weep indeed; if you are grieved indeed; then your grief is more, That you have grieved GOD, than because His and your Adversaries have grieved you, that is first. (2) If you rejoice indeed, than you rejoice with trembling. (3.) If you praise GOD indeed for the works He has done, (I cannot express how wonderful they are) than you live to His praise; That is Selah; than you rise-high in praises, when your life praiseth Him, that is, when your conversation is in heaven. If God, your God, is your strength; then He is your Song: If He be your Salvation, He is your praise too. (4.) If you long to see God appear in His Glory; To see Him worshipped according to His Command, in a Churchway: Then you are fitting and making your heart meet for such a worship; and you commune with your own heart upon your bed, enquiring what holiness you have gained by the Ordinances you now have; for they that are not good husbands, and thriving under these, I cannot tell whether they shall be trusted with greater matters. (5.) And to shut up this matter; If it be with you as aforesaid, Then your heart is open, and your mouth open, and your purse is open, and your hands hang not down; All you have, and all you are, shall be expended, laid out for Him, for His Name, for His cause, for His servants, All for Him, who hath so laid-forth all His Attributes for us, A falling, sinking, dying Nation; All for Him, (forget it not) who remembered us in our low estate. All for Him. Amen.  A. 
I join with you hearty, and that is all the answer I can make to all the . I must inquire further of you for resolution now; The Government by Bishops, it is gone, it is fallen like a great Millstone; It shall be found no more in heaven, the Church, Amen.  
There are now two ways of Government, (I express it as I can, and as I conceive it in the most popular way) The Presbyterian way; the Independent way. The Adversary meets me in both ways, crosseth me in the one, chokes me in the other. I beseech you, Sir, for God's sake, and His cause, be pleased to give me satisfaction, that I may satisfy others, who finding me almost your Conver●  B. 
I'll cut you short there. I pray you do not call yourself my Convert. If the Word of GOD has not turned you, hold you where you first were, for Archbishops, Lord, or Diocesan-Bishops, hold you there.  A. 
God forbidden. But I pray you pardon the Word; It relates to you, but as to an instrument, and let me go on; My Adversaries finding me a Convert, hit me in the teeth with this; You are for the Scots Discipline, the Presbyteriall-Government, a Rigid Government, worse than the Bishops, an Iron yoke.  B. 
Answer them thus, but in the Spirit of meekness; as you tender the Glory of GOD, and the good of His chosen; show no heat in these matters; but tell them, They are clean mistaken. The Scots Discipline is as near, as their light has carried them, close up to the Word of God; and as more light shall appear, closer-up they will come. Tell them, God has appeared to that people in that way, wonderfully, marvailously: And a great Reformation is wrought amongst them, a great Reformation! And great things has the LORD wrought by them, and marvelous! And if we trust not in them, if we lean not on their arm, great things will they do for us. But for their Discipline, say again, That, were not the Pillars out of course; and the Laws silent, because the Trumpet is so loud; could their heads and leaders walk in the way with a right foot 
* Gal. 2. ●●. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. , as the word is, and as they desire to go: could they keep close, and keep their people close, in this extravigant time, to their own rule, and principles; Then your Adversaries now would agree with you, and acknowledge, That they have, after their manner, blasphemed the Scots, and their way. Tell me now, Do you think that this I have said will not stop the Adversaries mouth, so wide open against the Scots Discipline?  A. 
No indeed; All this will not stop the mouth of the Adversary. The reason is, Because some mouths will not be stopped, till they be wrapt-up in a winding sheet, and stopped about with dirt. But you have answered me, and I am satisfied at that point. My adversary will meet me at another point, and he will bufle me there, or choke me quite. He will tell me, You shall have Lords in every place more absolute than was the Lord-Bishop, for they will be more independent. That chokes me quite, I have not a word to reply. I entreat you, Sir, help me here, and tell me, what you think of that way, what is your judgement thereof, I mean judgement as we speak popularly.  B. 
You say well, else I should have said, who made me a Judge? Indeed you should not have craved my judgement, which is so low and small, in so high and great matters. But sith you crave it, take it, as it is, and make the best of it: Thus I judge of the way; It is an excellent way, an heavenly way, a Churchway, an holy way: And the excellent of the earth walk in that way, and are for that way; and that is as much as I shall say concerning the way.  A. 
It is enough; but you must make good what you say.  B. 
That needs not, and yet it shall be made manifest and apparent to your eyes, though I say no more; for what are words? The conversation of these men who are for this way, in their own house, and in the house of GOD, this holdsforth their way to be an holy, an heavenly, a Churchway, as was said; there is the proof.  A. 
It is indeed, and The Church in thy house is the praise in the Gospel. But is not the conversation of those men, who are for the other way, as gracious, as holy, as Church-like, as is the conversation of these men who are for the Independent way?  B. 
Indeed my spirit is stirred, I had best to stop a while, lest I fire upon you, and word it with you, and so mar all— I do bethink myself of the way we are upon; I must do nothing unbeseeming that way; else you should hear words sharp or cutting You would force 
'tis 1. 13  me to make comparisons, they are odious, The conversation of the one and the other is Church-like, else they are not in a Churchway. I spoke not words, but my heart before. I protest unto you, I do so honour the Scots, and their way, that I can scarce keep my heart from idolising them in their way: And certainy, could it do them any good, I could wash their feet, and kiss them when I have done, such love I bear to them and their way. You will give me leave now, sigh it is for your satisfaction, to tell you my judgement touching this way, and so I have done hearty: Now you would have me make comparisons: No but I will not.  A. 
Pardon me, Sir, and teach me I pray you, what I shall answer to my adversaries, who tell me that the men you so commend, are Independent. men. What shall I say to this?  B. 
Tell your adversaries, they are foully mistaken.  A. 
The men say so themselves, they call themselves Independents.  B. 
They do not sure. But you are a learner, believe me: The men that are for this way, are the most (I had like to have exceeded in comparison) are as Dependent men, as any are in the world. They lean upon their beloved evermore; they seek counsel at his mouth evermore; they would not move a step, nor speak a word without him: they harken diligently what their LORD saith: And they will hearken what any man, though the lowest of men, any man shall say unto them from their LORDS mouth. They independent! How independent? As you and I are in our houses; low and weak men, we, and yet we will not suffer another man to Lord it over us in our house: for the Cook, they say, will not abide it in his Kitchen; so Independent we and the Cook are. And yet so dependent we are, that our practices, our duties, our Doctrines, etc. are subject to the Spirit of the Prophets, as they submit themselves to the Spirit breathing in the Word, the Rule of all. I could wish hearty, a better and larger explication of this word, than here is time, or place, or ability to make: because it is so generally misunderstood, it should have a more free and full explication.  A. 
What say you to the gathering of Churches? The language of the times, and the practice of grave and learned Ministers; what say you to it? 
a Matth. 24. 40. Luke 17. 34.   B. 
I will, in all meekness and submission to better judgement, bolt-out what I have conceived; That this separating, this culling and gathering work, is reserved for the Angels when GOD shall give them commission, 
b Hiphlah Psas. 4. 3. Then the Lord sets apart him that is godly for himself.  and then a marvellous separating shall be; for than Two shall be in one bed, etc. the one shall be taken, the other left: so it will be then, a gathering, a culling out one from another who stood before in the nearest relation, were partakers of the same work and reward, than a separation, and not till then in an orderly way. Now husband, wife, child, and servant, all should go together to the same place, there to partake of the same ordinances.  A. 
Very well: But then the wife that is spiritual, may partake of the same holy things with her husband, who is carnal: And the servant, that is the Lords freeman, may break bread with his master, who is to every good work reprobate. What say you to that?  B. 
Not much, let the Pastors or Ministers look to that.  A. 
But here is a leaven now in our congregation, which leaveneth the 
1 Cor. 5 6  whole lump.  B. 
Search the Scriptures, and inquire we of our Teachers whether that be the meaning, That another man's wickedness can leaven you: Inquire concerning that matter, you will read, To the clean all things are clean ●. I cannot think that unclean persons, whom the sacred Scripture calls Dogs and Swine, can pollute children's bread to children. I'll tell 
'tis 1. 15. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. Luk. 11. 41 All things are clean unto you. Ne omnes Angelos, si Missa intersint, etc. Epist. 265.  you what Calvin says; My position is (saith he) that a pious or sacred action cannot be defiled by the fault or pollution of men: And thus I use to clear it; If all the Angels in heaven were present at the Mass (that abomination) they could not, with all their holiness, wash off the filth of that Sacrifice; nor can all the Devils in hell (if present at the holy Supper) defile that sacred Ordinance to me, received by me with pure hands, and a clean heart.  A. 
If this gathering of Churches be according to the express Word of GOD, why should you or any man be against it?  B. 
According to the word of God, and against it! God forbidden, only, I say, sigh there is an if in it▪ let us, simple ones, stay a while, till further enquiry be made at God's mouth, and resolution given touching that matter, that so all (ifs) may be taken away.  A. 
But in the mean time here are two ways.  B. 
Yes, seemingly, and no more: As two ways upon a great Common or Heath, which anon will meet in one: or as two streams which break the bank a little, and so run cross, but after a small circuit about, meet again, running into the same channel. I leave these ways under hope, and full persuasion, that a way shall be taken to clear this word and way, from a sure word, so as both ways shall meet in one; and all that are seemingly divided there, shall kiss and embrace each other as brethren: for they shall inquire, not each of other, what is this m●ns way, or that man's way, but of GOD, and the word of GOD, they shall inquire what is GOD'S way, and the way of his people, concerning which they are charged, This is the way, walk in it. I have told you my hope, I will show you the grounds of this hope. The first,  
1. We have a promise, I will give them one heart and one way. A sure 
jer. 32 39  word; It is done; So The LORD speaks of things to be done in His appointed time, the best time: God is one; The Lord Christ one; faith one; Church one; without doubt the way shall be one, and the fool shall 
Isa 35. 8.  not err.  
2. We see how the Assemblies both conspire in one, To unite hearts and affections, and judgements, so to make all one! We see this, else we see nothing.  A. 
Indeed I do not see it, I can tell you that there are in the Assemblies, some for this way, and some for that, and very eager and hot-spirited they are for their way, as was told me.  B. 
And you might tell yourself; That Angels are not Assembled there, but men, subject to the like passions as we are, and may declare them too openly as men do. But this I can tell you, That these men who are indeed for a Churchway (an holy way what ever it be) and do walk in it, have been greatly humbled for that eagerness of spirit, if more than was fitting, which was declared in their contention for that way: And before they came to their seats next day, where they were a note too high, they were low in humiliation, they afflicted their souls for being so high the day before; And they have made their watch the stronger for aftertime, and for ever. And this for mighty reasons; (1) Because they are contenders for a holy way; All must be done in an holy manner, Church-like. (2.) They know also, many there are, who watch for their holting. It is enough for Caution.  
3. There are mighty wrestlings, the wrestlings of GOD, strong prayers; His servants will not let their Lord alone; They will give their God no rest. Jacob weeps and he prays; God must answer him; Jacob will not leave His GOD, without He leaves a blessing behind Him. Hear you what seeking, and knocking, and praying there is, Lord, give the Nobles and Worthies in their Assemblies, to be perfectly joined together in the same mind, and in the same judgement, for this one way; That the LORD may be one, and His Name one in all Congregations. It is done, seekers shall be obtainers. As Jacob, so the seed of Jacob never sought God in vain. God is appearing in His Glory, for the destitute are importunate with Him; Now I will arise, saith the Lord. And indeed He 
Psal. 102. 17.  does arise in all His people's sight; and He has made bare His Arm, even His Right Arm, and has done valiantly; Let the servants of the LORD say so, even for what they have seen, though they should live to see no more. Their fathers have sown prayers, and watered them with tears, and we have reaped. What a return of prayers have we seen! O wonderful! Jacob has prayed, and the seed of Jacob has prayed, and then He spoke unto us 
* Hos●a. 12. 4. ; We have the fruit of their prayers; They prayed, Lord cast-out the vile, set in their room the precious; 
Note, that they do cause all the trouble, who have a 3d. way, the way of their own hearts, and that way they would go.  Lord purge the Temple, the services there; Lord give thy people pure Ordinances; So they prayed; Then the Lord spoke unto us; and as He spoke, so He has done in our Days, Blessed, blessed, blessed be His Name; Then He spoke unto us. O what cause have we every one of us, To make our hearts Temples, our houses Churches, our lives living monuments of His praise, That a Churchway, and a Church-life, and Church-Ordinances, all holy, and pure, may meet together, and kiss each other, Amen, and Amen.  
To take a view of what is said, we have seen the Bishop's way, the way of Cain; Wasting and destruction is there, their foot stands, even at this present, in the path of the destroyer; Yet the Bishops have their Advocates, those, who plead for them and their way. The sober man has what to answer; And is shown an excellent way, the old way. There is a parting in it, as we observe, the same way compassing an hill, and meeting again in the valley, for the ease of man and beast. [As a Beast 
Isa. 63. 14. Leniter et commodè duxit ut solet, jumentum dust in descensu mont is ardui. Isa 63. 1.  goeth down into the valley, so the LORD will have his people lead] This way is as it is called a Churchway, the way of Holiness. No Lion shall be there; The unclean shall not passover it. And now that I have mentioned them, the unclean, I come to the remainder of my undertake, The casting-out of the Bishop's Curates, those unclean persons, for like Bishops, like Curates; called so in a contrariety to their office, as a mountain is called in a contrariety to what it does; It has its name from motion, they say, but moves like a mountain: So these Curates have their names, as Bishops have theirs, from cure and care, and oversight, when they care for nothing, nor did oversee any thing, but their Rents, Tithes, and in comes: and to make provision for their lusts. We cannot think, that Wren or Pearce, (these were called Bishops) would endure, their Curates should be better than themselves, but as themselves, as brutish men, as drunken sots, as vile Priests, as treacherous Prophets, as lose and swinish in their life, and then, more than probable, they will be nabals at their death. And what are the people now, that their guides are blind and brutish; They must needs be so too; from the Prophets and Priests is profaneness gone forth into all the Land; 
Jer. 23. 15.  They have leavened the Land with Atheism, abominable Idolatries, and Heathenish prophanenesses. And now all ye beasts of the field come 
Isa 56. 9  to devour; yea, all ye beasts in the Forest. And so it is according to the good word of the LORD; for His watchmen are blind they are all ignorant, 
Ver. 10.  they are all dumb dogs, they cannot bark, sleeping, lying down, lo●ing to slumber. You see whom I mean by these Curates; I argue now for the casting-of-them-forth.  
They that have committed the same abominations, which others, 
It is argued for the casting-out of Curates. Jer. 29. 2●  having committed, have been roasted in the fire, and then made a curse; These aught to be thrust-out of the Land, by the Law of the Land: But these Curates have committed such abominations. Speak, have you any thing to say for them.  A. 
Not a word, I must not plead for them, whom God condemns; You must make proof, That so they have done, according to those abominations.  B. 
They have committed villainies in Israel, adultery with their neighbour's wives; They have spoken lying words, (God knows how many,) They have blasphemed God, and the King; they have polluted God, and his Day, and his House, and all the honours and services there.  A. 
You have said, you have not proved.  B. 
There is the clearest proof of all this that can be desired. A Century is comeout already, where their names are upon everlasting Record, and their horrible abominations registered: That one Century, (a hundred) implies nine Centuries more, they make a Chiliad, a thousand. And certainly, had we the names of those, and their abominations registered also, who are under the King's protection, we should have a book, as large as that we call the Centuries.  A. 
Now that their places, their wickedness rather, have spewed-them-out, whither are they gone?  B. 
To the place where such men shall find favour, to Oxford. They have proceeded to the highest degrees of wickedness in the countries, they are Doctors in the Art of drinking, whoring, rioting, now they gone to Oxford, as we say, to proceed Doctors of Divinity; and thence dispersed to those several places, whence God's faithfullest servants have been cast-out, where they will drink the healths, for they cannot pray, of their good Lords and Masters, and for the prosperity of their Armies, now in Array against the Lord Jesus Christ: for as those Armies prosper, so the Curates shall prosper. But now we hear they shall be all summoned to make their appearance at Oxford: for as they have there a thing they call a Parliament, made-up as aforesaid, for the subverting the Laws, and Liberties of the Kingdom: so there must be an assembly of Divines too, such as have been spewed out of their places, for the establishing of the religion so often protested for. Ah Lord! But I forbear. The poor commit themselves to the Lord, Thou shalt preserve 
Psal. 1●. ●.  them from this generation for ever. The wicked walk on every side, when the vilest men are ex●lted.  
These Curates, as unsavoury salt, are cast-out of the Church; Now the Devil has admitted them into his Chapel: Let him take their Service too: For, as like Bishops like Curates: so, like Curates like Service, abominable all. I argue for the casting of it forth.  
This service is Dogs-meat, it must be cast-out to the Dogs.  A. 
I could never think the Curates Service to be children's meat, but never heard I the Curates service called Dogs-meat before.  B. 
Yes, you imply as much yourself, If not children's meat, than whose meat? Dogs-meat, I think. But I argue it, Torn flesh is Dogs-meat. The Curates service is as Torn flesh.  A. 
Prove that if you can, That the Curates service is as Torn flesh.  B. 
The Curates Service is a torn, distracted service; here is a piece, & there is a piece; here is the former part, and there is the latter; here the first service, & there the second service; here read at the Desk; there said in the Pulpit; thence drawn up to the Altar: here are saying prayers, there are tooting prayers, upon the Cymbal and the Organ; here they roared like Bears, there they brayed like Asses, and yet Divine service, they say: But harken what the LORD says; As torn flesh, Dog's 
Exod. 22. 38. Mal. 1. 13  meat, so is these Curates Service unto Me, Do you bring that which is torn to me? Cast it to the Dogs. It is done, they have it at Oxford, and all over the Land; yea all over the Christian world, where the Devil hath his Chapel, and where these abominable Curates and Priests are. Let them alone with their meat, no man envies them; no good man but pitieth them, yet let them alone, these Curates with their service together.  
Now I must complete my undertaking, and argue against the Neuters.  A. 
I pray you explain yourself, and tell us what these are?  B. 
What they are! They are Neuters, a cursed generation of men, seem not to know their right hand from their left; not which way to 
Who are ●●uters.  turn. I can liken them to nothing so fit, as to a shadow of a man, a picture▪ such as you may observe ordinary in Flanders; There is a thing they call a Christ on the left hand; another thing they call the virgin Mary on the right hand; and in the midst, a third thing called a Catholic, with this inscription before him, Crime vortam nescio.  A. 
I'll hear no more of that; such a picture does not become your gravity, nor is it proper to the matter in hand.  B. 
I like your plainness well, I spoke it but to try how you had profited by all our discourse hitherto. True it is, such a picture gives us no instruction touching the subject in hand; for which way soever the looker-on had turned, death was on either hand. But now take things as indeed they are, not represented to us, but indeed and in truth.  
Here is the Living God, the Lord Christ, and his Truths on the right hand. Here is the Devil, his Pope and his Bishops with all their blasphemies, on the other hand; yet, cui me vortam nescio, the man is not yet resolved what hand to take, he is a Neuter.  
Secondly, here is on the right hand, a Parliament called together by the King himself, acknowledged a Parliament, confirmed and established a Parliament by his own hand: On the left hand there are Assemblies of (Robbers) which they call a Parliament (in Oxford) made up of the refuse and garbage of the land, and yet, cui me vortam nescio, to what hand he may turn, he cannot tell. This is a Neuter.  
Thirdly, here are, on the right hand, Nobles and Worthies, who have approved themselves true Patriots, zealous of God's honour, and faithful to their King and Kingdom; who can have no other end, as is clear to all the Christian world, but the peace of the Church, the honour and safety of the King and Kingdom, no other end: On the other hand are, lefthanded men, robbers, spoilers, murderers, unjust men, who know no shame, who are as roaring Lions, and devouring Wolves, to the inhabitants all over the land; yet, cui me vortam nescio, he knows not to which side he should join; he is a Neuter.  
Fourthly, Here are a generation of Seekers, who seek God day & night, who have commanded us as Q. Ester her people, Go, assemble yourselves 
Est. 4. 16.  together, fast and pray for us, we also will do likewise, these are on the right hand: On the left hand there is the Prince of Robbers, Murthetherers, they that curse and swear, and blaspheme all the day long; yet, cui me vortam nescio, to what hand to turn he knows not, He is a Neuter.  
To speak yet more plainly, and according to the express word of God. They are Neuters who come not out to help the Lord against the mighty; mighty Nimrods', mighty hunters before the LORD, men skilful to destroy the Faith, Religion, Laws, Liberties of the Kingdom; mighty hunters before the Lord; yet these will not come forth to help the Lord at such a time as this; no though the Lord calls to them now, Who will rise up for me against the evil doers? Or who will stand up for me 
Psa. 94. 16  against the workers of iniquity? These will not, these are Neuters.  A. 
Possibly, nay probably these may not know that things are as they are; things are represented to them otherwise, as they have heard it declared and protested more than seven times; They may not know.  B. 
What may they not know? They do know that Ireland is destroyed. They do know that this viperous generation is eating-out the heart and bowels of the Kingdom; They do know that the Faith, Religion, Laws and Liberties of the Kingdom are destroyed under a colour and semblance of maintaining the same. They do know, etc. But I will tell you a story first; That notable murderer, who stabbed K. Henry the 4th of France, was examined whether he did not make known his purpose to his Ghostly Father, his Confessor; He answered, Yes; His Confessor, a Jesuit, was examined at that point; he answered, he did not know (that is, to tell them) but very likely, said he, the intention was made known unto me, under the Rose, and I have a gift (of the spirit) presently to forget what is told me under the seal of Confession. My Author is not at hand, nor do I remember how they dealt with him; but certainly, they took a ready way to quicken his memory before he was cut asunder: so it must be here, These men pretend they know not this, and they know not that, They will not know, or they will not know to tell us. But they dissemble in all that they say; They do know that the King's foot stands up to the knees in blood, in the path of the destroyer. They do know, that he has cast forth all the precious Ministers of Justice, and Ministers of the Gospel, where his hand could reach; and thrust in the vile into their places; They do know what the Queen has done beyond the seas, what Digby with her favourites (her Agents and factors for Babylon) what these have done there, and what they are doing here; They do know what is in design, how bloody the adversaries intentions are, and that they have slain the servants of the Lord with a rage that reacheth up to hea●en so high must their judgement reach: This they do know. They do know that the King has made peace with his worst enemies, & is at wars with, and bids defiance to his best friends. They do know, That the King is plucking down his own house; That he has thrust away the great supporters of his Throne, judgement and justice. They do know what the King has protested, proclaimed, declared to all the world; And they do know what his Commissions have been, how bloody, how destructive. They do know how that Bristol is given into the enemy's hands, and they do hear that the Queen shall have a Chapel there: They do hear the groans of the prisoners, and the cries of the poor because of their Taskmasters: for their oppression is more grievous than is, or ever was, the Turkish or Egyptian slavery. They do know, which way the Devil, and all his ministers do draw, now, and yet they withdraw themselves as men that know not which way to turn, They are Neuters. Hang them, cut them asunder. It is the sentence from the law of Nature, of Nations, of Arms: It is the sentence from the law of God too.  
1. It is against the law of Nature, that they who are without natural affection, should enjoy the common gifts of nature, light, water, fire. Against the law of Nations and Arms, that those subjects should enjoy the privileges and communities of subjects, who see with open face, the adversary and enemy destroying all these, and hold their hands in their pockets the while. Against the law of GOD, that they who see the Laws, Rights, Liberties of his kingdom trampled upon by swine, and yet stand Neuters, that they should not feel the sharpest punishment. I will argue these things in order.  
They that are the same, and have done the same which he did, and for 
It is argued for the casting-out of Neuters.  doing so was plucked a sunder with two Teems of Horses, four Horses in a Teeme, do deserve to be cast out of the land by the law of the land. But these Neuters are the same as he was, and do the same as he did, for which he was so punished. Therefore, etc.  
2. To relate to a more known story, They that are the same, and have done the same, and for doing whereof, others, their fellow-brethrens, have had their skin torn from their flesh, and their flesh from their bones, these do deserve to be cast-out of the land: But these are the same, and do the same which they did, who, in former time, were so punished. Therefore these aught to be cast-out by the law of the Land.  
3. They that are the same, and do the same, which they did, who were cursed from God's mouth, and commanded to be cursed by all the people these aught to be cast-out of the land by the law of the land. But these are the same, and do the same, which they did, who were so cursed. Therefore, etc.  A. 
Prove that these Neuters now, do now as they did in ancient times.  B. 
They do now the same thing: for they get to an upper-place (in 
Metius Suffetius.  speculation) as he did spying which side is strongest, and likeliest to prevail; and to that side they will wheel about anon. But that is too fare of; I will take that which is nearer the eye. These men do as the men of Succoth did, therefore these are as the men of Succoth were, etc.  A. 
I can say nothing to that; I know not what the men of Succoth were; or whether there were such a people in the world.  B. 
It is your ignorance, and not to be excused; you know not the Scriptures, and therefore your works must needs be bad, and you must walk as a man in the dark; It is a very famous story, touching the men of Succoth, I'll relate it as briefly as I can.  
Gideon and his three hundred men were faint, yet pursuing after Z●ba 
Judg. 8. 4, 5.  and Zalmunna, Kings of Median, Israel's enemies: And he said to the men of Succoth, give, I pray you, loaves unto the people that follow me, for they are faint: Gideon told them also, (as is likely) That he would requite their kindness when God had delivered his enemies-up into his hands, whereof Gideon made no question. The Princes of Succoth, living at ease, and faring deliciously, harkened not to Gideon, nor regarded how faint his men were: They mock and jeer at Gideon; Yes, say they, you will return us our bread when you have your enemies in your hands; When will that be? That is a doubtful case; we will not part with our bread upon such an hazard. You think yourself as sure of your enemies, as if you had them in your hands; you see not at what disadvantage you stand, we do see it: Your enemies are Kings, Kings will help one the other, They have power, you are weak and faint; You have not supply of necessaries, and think you to overcome two Kings? There is a great peradventure. We will see the business cleared, and the doubt resolved, than we shall know what is best for us to do; If you have the victory over the Kings, than you shall have our bread; If the Kings have victory over you, than they shall have our bread. Goeon now and pursue, faint you may, and fall down, and starve for us; you get no bread of us; we will not part with it at a peradventure; You question not the victory; It is a great question to us; Are the heads of Zeba and Zalmunna 
Verse 6.  in thy hands, that we should give bread unto thine Army? This story is as soon understood as read; & as easily applied to our neuters now adays.  A. 
Very well; But how prove you, That neuters were so grievously punished in ancient days?  B. 
I prove it first out of the Roman Chronicle; The body of Metius Suffetius, who stood neuter, to spy which fide was strongest, that thereunto he might turn, was adjudged by a Council of war, to have his body tied unto two teems of four horses, which halled contrary ways; So his body was drawn asunder, and plucked into two pieces accordingly.  A. 
What have Christians to do with what the Romans did? It was the first and last punishment that ever the Romans executed with so little respect, or none at all, To the Laws of humanity, says the Historian himself.  B. 
Well then, let it go, though it instructs us very well, what may lawfully be done to neuters now adays. But we must not so lightly pass over what we read in the sacred Text, upon which we were even now, and must set a mark. We read, how the men of Succoth jeered and upbraided Gideon; Now read what Gideon replies to them; Therefore when the Lord hath delivered Zeba and Zalmunna into mine hands, then will I tear your flesh with the thorns of the Wilderness, and with briers. And as he threatened to deal with them, so he did deal; He took the Elders of the City, and thorns of the Wilderness, and briers, and with them he taught the men of Succoth. He taught them! A sore Teaching! but very exemplary for these men in our days, They that will not be taught with words, must be taught with pain.  A. 
Yea, but gideon's teaching is no rule for us so to teach; he taught with briers and thorns, we must be more merciful.  B. 
More merciful! mercy to the wicked is cruelty to the good: pity to God's enemies is but a fruit of bitter hatred to His friends. But I will pass over that too, yet we must not pass over, but observe with all observation, what the LORD says; Curse you Meroz, said the Angel of the Lord; Curse ye bitterly the Inhabitants thereof.  A. 
I pray you, what was this Meroz?  B. 
Surely, I cannot tell; An obscure people they were, they had no relation to Israel, farther than that they were men, partaking of the same common nature, near adjoining to Israel; and beholding the distress; lookers-on, when mighty Adversaries were before them; Israel, God's people, distressed behind them, yet lookers on Israel's affliction, in the day of their calamity; beholding it with the eye, but not regarding it.  A. 
Was that all?  B. 
All! It was enough to bring a curse, and to make it cleave unto them for ever; Therefore curse ye Meroz, never cease 
a Indesinenter, Jun.  calling for a curse, till the curse come; In cursing curse ye him, because they came not out to help the Lord against the mighty. The distress of a person, or a people, is enough to command pity: If a person or people be fallen into the hands 
The day of jacob's troubles, is a discovering day. When Jacob is fallen into the hands of thiefs, (the prince of robbers) he shall know who is his neighbour  of thiefs: But I will not make an if of the matter; That, which was a parable anciently, is a truth now, & relates to Ireland and England both, These two Nations are fallen into the hands of thiefs, God so disposing and suffering it to be Now woe to the lookers-on, and passers by on the other side, woe to them. Now is the distinguishing time, now we shall know our friends, who is our neighbour and our brother; he that shows mercy, he is the neighbour, though the adversary and enemy says, He is a Samaritan and has a Devil.  A. 
By this account now, which you have given of Meroz, and of Israel in distress, fallen into the hands of Thiefs, Zealand and Holland should comein now to help England.  B. 
That they should sure, stronger bonds and engagements are upon them, than was upon Meroz. Stronger, said I? I should have said more: But I forbear.  A. 
What means it then, that they have shipped over their Artillery, instruments of death, to furnish the enemy and adversary?  B. 
You must lay the blame of that— upon the Devil's instruments, ungrateful wretches, there and here, and every where, lay that— upon them, and not upon the country, or people. The adversary prevailed there, and thrust forth a ship or two freighted as we know; but doubtless the Hollanders do know what the English have done for them, to render them a free People: they will not send over instruments of death therewith to cut English throats, or to make them slaves; they abhor the thoughts of such a requital for old unrecountable favours from the English: How much English noble blood hath been shed to maintain their cause! How much?  A. 
Ambassadors are now come to mediate a peace, they say.  B. 
A peace! What, etc. all the world knows what follows, God is making inquisition for blood: he will require it at the hands of them that shed it. And now the Parliament cannot take it ill that they are not treated with about the thing some call Peace: The GOD of gods, KING of kings, and LORD of Lords, is not treated with. And yet when he giveth quietness, who can make trouble? And when he hideth his face, who can behold him, whether it be done against a nation, or against 
job. 34. 29.  a man only? To shut-up all: Thus we have concluded from unquestioned premises, That though Holland hold their peace, and stand-Neuters, as Meroz did, Yet enlargement and deliverance shall arise to the 
Est. 4. 14.  Church of England from another place. It is a comfortable promise, He shall send from heaven and save me. England shall be saved, the Church 
Psal. 57 3.  there shall have a glorious salvation, that it shall. But yet God and man expects neighbours should show themselves neighbours. And who knows whether all the kindness England shown to Holland, was not for such a time as this. But if this move not, surely the curse upon Meroz (well thought on) will move; A cursed generation, cursed from God's mouth, and commanded to be cursed by all the people of God, Curse ye Meroz, said the Angel of the Lord, curse ye bitterly the inhabitants thereof, 
judg. 5. 23.  because they came not to the help of the LORD, to the help of the LORD against the mighty. So shall all thine enemies perish, O Lord, they shall leave their names for a curse to posterity: But they that love thy Name, shall be as the morning light, which increaseth more and more till the perfect day. So be it. Amen.  
FINIS.