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A modest Vindication of the Case of John Giffard Gent. And an Answer to the Reply of the Preservators of Deane Forrest.  

With certain Reasons why those Iron Works should not be demolished until his stock be wrought out.  
1 IT seems not a little strange to the Vindicator, That the Remonstrance of Parliament of Decemb. 15. 1641. should be used as an Argument for destruction of his Iron Works in the Forest of Deane, which by a special Ordinance of Parliament of October 27. 1645. (notwithstanding the said Remonstrance) were thought fit by the judgement of the same Parliament to be continued: and by the same Ordinance assigned wood for the supply thereof. And though the Parliament did give order to demolish all the Iron Works in the said Forest, and yet were afterwards pleased upon just Grounds and Reasons to continue Mr. giffard's, it ought not to seem strange to any well-affected persons, especially the Preservators of that Forest, what the Parliament upon subsequent debate and mature deliberation have done therein for relief of the said Giffard in prosecution of the said Ordinance.  
2. To the second: And it cannot be construed less than superlative boldness in the Penner of that Reply, to render the Order and Result of Parliament as an act of very great injustice, that other Works that were built upon the inheritance of private Gentlemen in the Forest were pulled down, though not one of the Owners of the said Works held theirs, or had wood assigned them by special Ordinance of Parliament, or did petition for relief, although they were not ignorant the said Vote did concern all other the Iron Works in the said Forest, as well as the said Mr. giffard's. Besides the Preservators well know that other Works are continued in the Forest which have spent the Forest wood, and that one of the said Preservators hath lately begun to build a Furnace within that Forest, which cannot long be kept going without making use of the Forest wood. And whosoever will without prejudice view the printed Case of the said Giffard, and the Parliaments Order of Reference to the honourable Committee of Revenue thereupon, and their Report to the House, will find sufficient Reasons given for continuance of those Works till his stock be wrought out, and not grounded upon bare pretences and allegations, as by the Preservators is suggested.  
3. And why a design of their progenitors driven on for fifty years and upwards, whom they magnify to have been men of public spirits, should now (for private interest) be drawn into example to the utter ruin of a particular person, that hath had no wood in the said Forest but what he hath justly paid for, nor hath any power or potency for his protection but the mercy and justice of Parliament, against such powerful & prevalent Adversaries. And why the just and pious intentions of the Parliament to relieve a distressed person, should be prejudicated or interpreted a dashing of the hopes of thousands pretended to be greater sufferers for the Parliament then Mr. Giffard, he understands not the reason of that assertion. Neither indeed can it be made appear, that any one of those thousands (which in truth are but few hundreds) have in any measure proportionably been so great sufferers as the Vindicator. And there was never heretofore any precedent of pulling down Iron Works before the stock was wrought out, nor any Petition preferred to that end, till of late most injuriously against Mr. Giffard, whereby it plainly appears there is a sly design and self-interest driven on by the Petitioners, beyond the preservation of wood and timber, which was the chief pretence.  
4. And is it not a high presumption in the Penners of that Reply, to assert that what the Parliament hath done or shall do in altering their resolutions, is in a charitable gratification to the insinuations of a private man, thereby adjudging and censuring the past and future transactions of Parliament upon bare and specious pretences, though in truth founded upon the grounds of justice, equity and reason, an unparallelled boldness without precedent or example: And though the Parliament hath been pleased to refer the Petition of the said Giffard to a Committee of theirs, to consider how the woods of the Forest may be preserved from consumption by reason of his Iron-works, and how the Petitioner may have relief, and report their Opinions to that honourable House; yet in opposition to the said Order of Parliament, they insinuate that the said giffard's just requests are pretensions rather than real truths, thereby endeavouring to obstruct the Report, and hinder relief to the Petitioner, till the said business be examined, though they very well know that if that Report be not made before the 25. of this instant March, all his works will be pulled down to the ground, & he thereby totally ruined before he can be heard; and rest not there, but state an abstruse question, whether it be charitable or honourable to gratify the desires of one man, to the apparent loss of the State, and disadvantage of so well deserving a people. But wherein this apparent loss to the State, or disadvantage to the people lies, they neither do nor can set forth. For, sufficient security being given that no wood or timber in that Forest shall be cut or diminished by Mr. Giffard his Servants or Workmen for his use upon any pretence whatsoever, during the time to be granted him for working out his stock, which is the Order and Report of the said honourable Committee of the Revenue, and their opinion that he may have a year's time from Lady day next allowed for that purpose. It is impossible there can be any loss to the State, or disadvantage to the people; and therefore admires the Penman does not blush to suggest so great a fallacy, Whereas the continuing of those Works till the stock (already bought) be wrought out, will be of very great advantage to this Commonwealth, in keeping down the price of iron, which (since the late demolishing of some Works in that Forest) is much advanced, and will be raised higher, if those Works should be suddenly demolished.  
5. The fifth is fully answered in the second Article.    


Answer to the Objections against the several Reasons in the Case of Mr. Giffard, for obtaining time to work out his Stock.  
1. FIrst it is alleged, that the greater part of the wood he hath coaled was timber, but doth not nominate any place where the said timber was coaled, or of whom it was bought: if the Author and penner of it would have it supposed to be timber of the Forest of Dean, that is both improbable and untrue, notwithstanding his pretence of proof by the Commission; for the Surveyor and four Preservators of the Forest formerly appointed and authorised by the Honourable Committee of the Revenue to set out the Fellet, and deliver the wood which was by them sold to Mr. Giffard, (which said Officers in the places where they live are esteemed by their Neighbours to be men of sufficiency and integrity) did first bound out the Fellet, and afterwards taking the advice of a Ship-Carpenter, and of a House-Carpenter, did mark all the best timber trees to stand, leaving the residue to be cut down by his workmen for the use of the Iron Works; and some of the said Preservators were daily in the said Fellet, where if they found any tree or considerable piece of a tree after cutting down that proved to be timber, they marked the same, and caused it to be squared and preserved for that purpose, divers of which are yet to be seen in the Forest within the said Fellet; by which it appears all due care was taken for preservation of the timber: and the said Officers and an under Woodward did as there was occasion, deliver the Cordwood by measure to Mr. Giffard or his servants, keeping a just account of the same: what hath been by him, or to his use received is duly paid for. He presumes for the Reasons herein expressed, none will believe that he made such consumption of timber as is suggested, and hopes that it is not to be imputed to him as a Crime, to have made use of such wood as he bought and paid for to those that had good authority to sell the same; he desires no future dealing, only craves leave to work out his stock already bought, and no more.  
2. To the second, Mr. Giffard doth affirm that he hath such a stock of Coal made of the Forest wood, as in his Case was truly alleged, neither can the contrary be made appear, whatever the Author or Penner pretends, thereby unjustly and maliciously aspersing the said Mr. Giffard, who though indeed he begs of the Parliament, did never make any brags of his Policy in the Country, nor hath made any Contracts at all for Coal or Wood since the first of January last, but to the contrary, gave special command to his servants to buy none at all, and believes they have observed his command, because he knows of nothing to the contrary.  
3. To the third, he cannot believe his stock of 5000. l. and upward will be worth any thing, if all the Iron Works in the said Forest be pulled down, for the Charcoals will be broken in pieces in removing and carriage of them to any other Iron Work, so that they will not be worth the charge, and for other part of the stock it will be of as little value, the charge of carrying it so great a distance considered: and for his twofold answer that Mr. Giffard hath no such stock of the State, by his leave that is not true, for the Coal made of the Wood he bought of the State is a great part of it, and they can suffer no loss by giving him leave to work out all his stock with his works which he built and repaired at his own charge, and paid two thousand pounds for use of them, for five years, of which above two years and a quarter is yet to come, and unexpired, but craves only that by the Justice and favour of the House he may have but one years' time, and cannot doubt but that the Parliament for the Reasons before alleged will think his request just and reasonable, and that he ought to have the working out his own stock rather than any other man. And whereas it is by some insinuated, that there be Undertakers that will buy his stock and make him a gainer, those are but mere delusions to spin out the time▪ till his works by the violence of his enemies be plucked down, whereby he may be silently undone, and left without remedy, but hopes the Parliament will never suffer so great an injury to be done to him that hath served them faithfully with his life and fortune, and is ready and willing to do the like again, if they shall have occasion.  
4. Mr. Giffard doth not desire the continuance of the Iron Works longer than to work out his stock, which under favour he hopes will be thought a very just and reasonable request: he is willing the good timber of the Forest should be preserved for shipping, and is resolved to buy no more wood at any rate whatsoever: he will not presume to be so saucy to put interpretations upon the Votes of Parliament, as the Author of this Article doth, and for his undertakers to serve this Nation with foreign Iron, as good & good cheap as now they have: first, 'tis manifest it will never be so good, and secondly, it is much doubted that the undertaking will not long be performed, it is hearty wished that this Commonwealth (by sad experience) may not find the contrary.  
5. The giving security will be found to be of value, for no wood or timber can be cut in the Forest for the use of Mr. Giffard without hazard of forfeiting the Bond, and in case any such thing should be attempted, the State, may when they please seize upon twenty times the value: his allegation that goodly trees have fallen to make Coal, is not to be applied to Mr. giffard's case, neither can there be any such thing laid to his Charge or proved against him; he cannot justify all the workmen that are employed about his Iron Works, but is assured that the greatest part of them have been more faithful to the Parliament, ●hen divers of those that have put their hands to the Petition for pulling down Iron Works.  
6. And for the sadness of M. Giffard's condition, and his friends, it is very evident to all, except such as without cause are, or will be possessed with prejudice against him, it is not a bare pretence, but a real truth, nor can it be proved by able men, that M. Giffard hath gained any such sums of money as is pretended; for he hath had the works, as to his own use, not two years and three quarters, did pay 2000.l. for them, besides the building and the repairing, which cost above 1500.l. more, and above 1100.l. debt due to the State, which he likewise satisfied, was forced to take up great sums of money to stock the said Works, besides his particular debts in the Country to several poor men that are not able to forbear their money, and amongst whom he oweth very great sums: these payments and other deductions considered, it is not probable that any such great gain should be made in so short a time; the truth is, if his works be pulled down before his stock be wrought out, he will be so great a loser thereby, that ●t will utterly ruin him, and many of his friends that are ●ngaged with him: that he cannot be made a saver by his ●eall stock unless he hath time to work it out, is already answered: It is an easy matter to traduce and scandalise a man, but a most difficult thing to repair a ruined estate; they humbly and earnestly desire to be heard for the good of the State, but show not wherein there is probability of loss, or hope of gain to the State: The design of M. giffard's adversaries is to retard and obstruct any relief from the honourable House until his Works be pulled down, and then they well know it will be too late. And why the penman of this Article should presume to aver, as by the same is clearly meant, that an Act of justice and Mercy in the State to relieve a distressed Petitioner, should be either a damage or dishonour unto them, without better reasons showed for it, is a Paradox that wiser men than himself understand not.  
7. In the joining issue they spare not to allege any thing that may make for their purpose, though never so far different from the present business: It is not hinted in the Case, nor was ever desired, that the Works should stand any longer than to work out the stock; and as the waste and spoil of timber made by others in that Forest, doth not concern Mr. Giffard, the same ought not to be urged to his prejudice: If any thing can be laid to his charge, he desires a fair proceeding by a legal trial, where he may have liberty to make his just defence, and that he may not be destroyed in an arbitrary way by a rude multitude, the greater part of which come to pilfer and steal what they can lay hands on, and covertly carry away.  
8. The loss Mr. Giffard sustained at Cirencester, as it cannot be denied, whensoever it shall be controverted, will easily be proved, and for his supposed gain of 6000.l. in the Forest, it is a mere fiction hatched in the Penmans brain, and in case he were a gainer, it is neither just nor reasonable he should be destroyed without a cause. Their believing that he is not so fit an object of pity as others, is no rule to the Parliament, the pay that the Petitioner and his son received for their service; was not half so much as as he laid out to raise his Troop, their comparisons of other men's affections cannot blast his fidelity, who doth not so urgently insist upon the standing of the Works, but for a reasonable time to work out his stock, which his judgement doth inform him will be both honourable and profitable for the Parliament to grant, and prejudicial to no man, except such as desire to raise the price of Iron for their private advantage, to the manifest damage of the Commonwealth,   
All which is humbly submitted to the wisdom and judgement of the Parliament, and every Member thereof, and their speedy Order thereupon craved, without which sudden destruction will fall upon  
Your most humble servant, JOHN GIFFARD.