A catholic CONFERENCE, between A Protestant and a Papist, about the Church visible and invisible, wherein, is declared the happiness, and blessed estate of the members of the invisible Church, in this life, in their death, in their resurrection, and after the resurrection for ever.  
And also a definition of the visible Church, which containeth the very essence thereof, both in matter and form, and is illustrated further by proofs, both from the word, and works of God.  
And in it, is also shewed the infallible marks of a true visible Church, whereby it may be known.  
And also therein are shewed the deceivable marks of the Church of Rome, which deceits are therein laid open, and confuted.  
LONDON Printed by I. D. for Nicholas Bourne, and are to be sold at his shop, at the royal Exchange. 1626.   

TO THE RIGHT honourable WILLIAM, earl of pembroke, Lord halberd, Lord chamberlain of the High and Mighty Prince King CHARLES the first of Great britain, his honourable household: one of the Lords of his majesties most honourable privy council, Chancellor of the university of Oxford, Knight of the most Noble order of the Garter, &c. George Ienney Gent: wisheth all true noble honor in this life, and happiness, and glory, in the life to come.  
MOST Noble Lord, I humbly entreat you, that you would not count it presumptuous bodlnes, in me a man so meanly qualified, to dedicate a book to you, so Noble a parsonage; the zeal of Gods glorious truth, and the honor I bear to this visible Church of Great britain, wherein, I had not onely my first being in an estate of corrupted nature; but in Gods good time, haue by his blessing on his own ordinance, and my attendance thereunto, given me my better being in a state of grace, wherein I stand: the zeal I say unto Gods truth, and the honour I bear to this Church, that professeth and preacheth this truth, hath provoked me to this labour. The subject of this discourse, is the Church visible and invisible; and for as much, as I find by reading some books of controversies, between the Church of Rome, and our Church, the great abuses which the writers offer to our holy Religion, and our Church, that preacheth and professeth the same: and for as much as our Romish English catholics, will haue no communion with us, in our public assemblies: I thought it fitt in my Christian charity toward them, being grieved to see them seduced by their heretical corrupted teachers. To writ this Dialogue, as a private conference with them, or so many of them, as this poor Dialogue by Gods providence may come unto. Right honourable, I beseech you, not to be discouraged, because I am no professed scholar, to vouchsafe your Lordships patronage of this mean work, for after I had finished it, I would not adventure to procure the publishing of it, before I had obtained the judgement of judicious Divines, touching the worth of it. There was three or four about London, that perused it, and subscribed their approbations to the original copy, affirming, that it was like to do that good, for which it was intended: which did encourage me to obtain licence to publish it, and dedicate it unto your Lordship. I am unknown unto your Honor, yet I haue received favours from you, for I was sometime a servitor in Court, in the time of our Great Master, and Mistris, the heroical Princes, King james, and queen and, Father and Mother to our dear sovereign, King Charles; whose servant I was, and served as a Gentleman sure of her majesties chamber in ordinary. At which time, your Honourable favours to me, with the rest of the queens servants above the stairs especially, to the presence waiters was such, that I cannot be altogether unmindful, and therefore in this regard, I am especially bound unto your Lordship, and do offer this poor work to you in thankefullnes. But this is not the chief cause, of my dedicating these my poor endeavours unto you, but because I know you are a lover of Gods truth, which is your greatest honor: your Christian Noble carriage in this church, doth evidently demonstrate the same. And therefore I presume that this little mite of mine, will be rather furthered then hindered from the Church, that it may remain in the Treasury of this our Church, for the edification of poor weak and ignorant souls, that are already, or may be in possibility, to be seduced for want of knowledge in Gods truth, and the true Church, which teach, preach, and profess the same: Some there be that live in the bosom of our Church, that are assuredly persuaded, that our Church, is a pure part of the visible catholic Church, and spouse of Christ; this may be a means further to confirm them. And some there be that are weak, and infirm, wavering minded, and ready to fall from our Church, and from the saving faith, which is faithfully preached and professed by her. This may be a means by Gods blessing, to strengthen them, and many there be, that are alienated from our Church, and that saving faith taught by her, and haue knit themselves to the Church of Rome, where they live in a false faith, grounded on a false foundation, this may be a means, to give them to understand that they are schismatically, and erroneously departed from our Church, and the true faith, preached and professed by her; and a means to draw them to repentance, by turning to our Church and the truth therein faithfully taught, which is the spiritual milk, for the nourishment of their souls unto everlasting life, from the false Church of Rome, where they are nuzelled up in er●or, superstition, and idolatry, to their eternal perdition, if they repent not. I haue shewed them, that the Church, is to be considered two ways, as it is visible, and as it is invisible: and that as it is invisible, it is truly, properly, and indeed, the Church of Christ. I haue shewed them, how this invisible Church, is his body, how it is invisible, how it is spiritual, how it is mystical, and how it is the catholic Church wee profess to beleeue in the creed; and I haue shewed them, the happy and blessed estate of this Church, and the several members thereof: First, in this life. Secondly, in their death. Thirdly, at the resurrection. Fourthly, at the day of Iudgement. And lastly, after Iudgement for ever, so far forth as I can gather by Gods word,& the ministry of our church, and I haue shewed them lastly, how a true converted child of God, may be assured, that he is a member of this happy and blessed body and Church of Christ. The second part of this book, consists of the visible Church, where I haue first defined it, in which definition, is contained the essence of it, in the matter and form. I haue shewed the infallible marks of a visible true Church, whereby a private man may know it: and I haue shewed the marks that the Church of Rome holdeth to be infallible, but I haue proved them to be deceitful, if they be not joined with the true doctrine of salvation. I haue proved the truth of our Church, and that theirs is a false Church by their own marks, that is to say, Succession, Antiquity, unity, Sanctity, Miracles, &c. And therein is inserted divers doctrines of the word and works of God, worthy of note, which I thought good to show them, that they might the better conceive what the Church is, and whereof it doth consist, of which they are greatly ignorant. And my good Lord, whereas there is not in the world, the least Creature which God hath made, but will add unto mans perfection, either for knowledge, or for use somewhat; so this poor work of mine, although it doth not add unto your Lordships wisdom and knowledge, yet it may ratify and confirm it in many things, if your Honour will vouchsafe the reading of it: Herein is shewed the true succession of the Church, in all ages of the world from Adam, till this very day, and that our Church of Great britain, doth succeed the ancient Churches; both in the time of nature before the writing of the Law, and under the Law, as the Church of the Iewes; and the Church of CHRIST since the publishing of the gospel: and that it doth succeed them all, in that which is essential to the Church, both in the foundation, and also in the matter and form: These things I show more at large, in this ensuing Dialogue following, which I now present unto your Lordship, desiring your Honour, to accept the mind of the giver, and peruse it at your leisure. And thus I commend you Right Honourable, to the protection, and grace of God in Christ.  
Your Lordships in the Lord, GEORGE IENNEY.   

TO All my fellow Subiectes, under King Charles, in his Monarchy of Great britain, who are of the Romish catholic Religion, unto Whom I wish in the best desires of my soul, the knowledge of Gods truth.  
BEloved countrymen and kinsmen, what rank or calling so ever you are of, whether you be men of honour, or worship, whether you be of the Gentry, or yeomanry; Trades-men, or Artificers; Husbandmen, or ploughmen; poor, or Rich; Great, or Small; Young, or Old whatsoever; that haue estranged your minds, and alienated your hearts, from the present Religion of your ●wne country. Which Religion is that truth, which must bring you and all men to salvation: the utter refusal whereof, will bring to eternal condemnation: to you I say, that haue cast off your own spiritual mother, the pure visible Church of Christ Iesus, here by Gods mercy and free goodness in Great britain placed and erected: and haue knit yourselves; live in subiection, and hold communion with the Church of Rome, a most gross corrupted Church; to you I say, in spiritual commiseration of your spiritual misery, do I direct this Epistle of love: and for your sakes, haue I out of my poor understanding, this poor Treatise, Dialogue, or catechism of the Church. I know that you are ignorant what the Church is, and whereof it doth consist: and therefore as a help for your weakness, I haue framed this Dialogue of the Church: I desire nothing at your hands, but that you would red it: for therein is shewed by the word and works of God, what the Church is, and whereof it doth consist. I know your blind guides do dehort and command you to avoid all matter of exhortation from us, and all conference with vs. But for all them, be ruled by our Saviour Christ himself, whose servantes you profess yourselves to be: what saith he by your Remish Testament in the Evangelist joh? Search the scriptures, 
John 8.39. 1. Thes. 4.21. ● John 4.5.  for you think in them to haue life everlasting. And what saith he by the ministry of Saint Paul, in your own translation to the Thessalon? prove all things, and hold that which is good, again what saith he by the ministry of Saint John? My dearest beleeue not every spirit, but prove the spirits if they be of God. My desire is, that you would observe in reading this my poor Dialogue, those rules which here our Saviour hath commanded you, for he onely hath power in the Church, by his written word, to command the consciences of men, and not your Pope and Priests by their traditions. do as the Nobles of Berea did in obedience to our Saviour Christs command, who preached the Scriptures, whether those things were so which Paul taught them. The Scriptures, are as the balances of the Sanctuary, which will try whether the matter of my Dialogue, or catechism is too light, or of reasonable good weight: it is the touchstone, which will try whether it be gold or copper: by this rule I would haue you to try the spirit by which I wrote it, and by this touchstone, I would haue you to try all things in it, and to keep what is good; and what is for want of learning weakly performed, in silence and love conceal, or tell me of it. I desire you not so much to consider the man that wrote it, as the contents of it: not so much the author of it, as the matter in it: and I make no doubt if the error of your judgements, be not seated in your perverse wils, but that you may profit much in your edification by it: But if Satan haue filled your hearts with malice against our Church, and the truth here preached, and professed, and that your partial respect unto the Church of Rome be such, that you will walk in the wicked counsel of it, and stand in the sinful ways that it teacheth you, and that you are grown to that desperate state, that you will sit in the wicked seat of scorners: for the wicked saith the Psalmist, hateth to be reformed, then there is little hope to prevail with you unto any good; No, if Christ the essence of all wisdom were in the flesh again amongst you, to instruct you, as he was amongst the Iewes, who were the visible church, and yet condemned and crucified him: but my hope is, that God hath ordained many of you to salvation and eternal life, and in his good time, will effectually call you by opening your hearts, as he did Lidia, to receive the love of the truth, to your eternal salvation: the zeal of Gods glory in the good of your souls, haue provoked me to this labour: and I hope you will not requited me with hate for my love, nor evil for my good will; but that you will accept it in love, as I wrote it in love, for your edification, unto happiness and salvation for ever. Your Pope and Priests tell you, that they are your Pastors: but where is the good spiritual pasture, by which they do feed you to eternal life? It is no where to be found, but in the large field of the word of God, revealed in the Scriptures: and many parts of your Religion cannot be proved thence, nor from thence necessary concluded: but is drawn out of their own corrupt inventions, to the poisoning of your souls for ever, if you take not heed, and repent in time. For the prevention of which, I haue shewed you in this my poor Dialogue, which is the purest part of the visible Church, and the safest in this part of the world, for you to join with in Gods service: two wicked props there are, by which the Church of Rome is uphold; the one is the bloody law o● the Inquisition of spain, by which the people are terrified, from questioning any point of error maintained by that Church: the other is their doctrine of an implict faith, which is in sundry parts of Religion, to beleeue as the Church believeth; and by taking from them the Scriptures, that they should not spy out by that pure light, the false doctrine of that Church. Thus by a bloody law, and by ignorance, is that Church upheld: and if that cruel law were repealed, and that common store-house of Gods spiritual blessings, the Scriptures opened, that all Gods people might resort to it, both in public, and private to read it: I am persuaded that quickly the Church of Rome would fall without any further strife: but I do not desire to detain you long by my Epistle, from reading my ensuing Treatise; and so I rest yours in all Christian duty, if you be Christs.  
GEORGE IENNEY Gent:   

A dialogue OR CONFERENCE between an English Protestant and a Spanish Papist, about the Church visible and invisible; showing the ignorant Papist by the Word and works of GOD, what the Church is, and whereof it doth consist, whereof he is too ignorant.  GEORGE, 
God bless and save you Sir, you are well over-taken.  PHILIP, 
You are welcome Sir, I thank you.  George, 
I perceive you are walking to London.  Philip, 
I am a stranger in this country, but haue been here in London since our ambassadors and Ledgers haue been sent to your King. And being desirous to take the air this morning in the fields, the fineness and fairness of the weather made me to walk further then I thought to haue done, even till I am weary.  George, 
I perceive you are a stranger, and seeing Religion, the fear of God, and good humanity, doth teach a man courteously to entreat strangers: therefore if it please you I will walk with you foot by foot, until I bring you to London, and so to your lodging.  Philip, 
Indeed strangers in strange countries haue a desire to light into good company, and therefore I thank God that he hath sent me so kind and courteous a companion to walk withall: therefore come let us walk on fair and easily.  George, 
I suppose Sir, you are a spaniard by Nation if I mistake not.  Philip, 
I am so indeed, and therefore you are not deceived.  George, 
Your King is a great King, and possessed of many dominions and kingdoms.  Philip, 
And not onely so, but our King is rich in treasure, which he hath from the Indies.  George, 
But I pray you Sir, let me crave your name.  Philip, 
My name is Philip.  George, 
And my name is George. But I pray you signior Philip, let me ask you another question; Are you a scholar.  Philip, 
Indeed I am no scholar, which is a great grief to me.  George, 
And truly signior Philip, no more am I, which want I greatly bewail in myself, yet by the mercy of God I haue attained in some weak measure to speak the language of Canaan in my own natural tongue, which you by the like mercy of God may attain unto, if you will be studiously diligent whilst you are here, and if already you be entered into that holy language, by diligence you may here haue it increased.  Philip, 
The language of Canaan, what is that?  George, 
Nay then I perceive you are very ignorant, if you know not what it is. I answer, It is the Scriptures or the Word of God.  Philip, 
How shall I speak the language of Canaan, or the Word of God in the Spanish tongue. You haue asked an unanswerable question.  George, 
How can you indeed speak it, you being prohibited the reading thereof, and being unlearned, as you say: but the Scriptures( as saith one in answer to a Popish rhyme) amongst you papists lurketh in a tongue unused, whereby poor people are abused. But properly the language of Canaan is to power out the soul before the Lord in holy invocations and prayer, and that according to his Word. Which spirit of prayer whosoever hath not, cannot well talk with God, 
Isaiah. 19. 1●redge●  and if he cannot religiously talk with God, 
Rom. 15.6.  how should his speech be sanctified civilly to speak with men? 
psalm 141. ●redge●  And therefore the Prophet David saith; Set a watch O Lord before my mouth, and keep the door of my lips. And again, O Lord open thou my lips, 
Psal. 51.17.  and my mouth shall speak forth thy praise. To this, the Apostle Paul exhorteth the Colossians, that their speech should be gracious always. 
Colos. 4.6. 1 Pet. 4.  And in another place, Peter hath it; If any man speak let him speak as the Word of God. And thus you hear what the language of Canaan is, wherein you may perceive that you cannot speak graciously, when the word of grace is closed up from you: neither can you speak according to the word of God, it being shut up from you: it makes me grieve from the very heart to see you so blinded by your teachers.  Philip, 
And it makes me pity you, to see you so deeply engaged in the heresy and schism of England.  George, 
No, no, pity not me, for after the way which you and all of your Religion call heresy and schism, will I worship& serve the living Lord, as S. Paul teacheth me.  Philip, 
You and I are but lay men, and no schollers, it belongeth not to us to meddle with the Scriptures, but to Divines and Schollers, who understand the original tongues, in which the Scriptures were first written.  George, 
I grant that Bishops should be no young Schollers as you and I am, but doth this argue, that young Schollers may not look into the Scriptures; no sure, you can infer no such conclusion; for the Scriptures are as a deep River, in which the mighty Elephant may swim, and the little lambs may drink and quench their thirst. The greatest clerks are never able to sound the depth of the Scriptures in all points, and yet there are such plain and express principles of saving truth threin contained, and that from thence may be easily collected, as may be well conceived by the meanest of Gods children, and therefore the Scriptures are not so hard and dark or obscure, as those of your Religion would make them; there is milk for babes and also meate for strong men.  Philip, 
I am a catholic, and of the true Church, which is the Church of Rome, which Church cannot err, and therefore what that Church teacheth, that will I beleeue.  George, 
Indeed your Church doth hold, if that a man know some points of Religion, as the Doctrine of the God head, of the trinity, of Christ his incarnation, and of our Redemption, it is needless to know the rest by particular knowledge, but to give his consent, and to beleeue as the Pastors beleeue. Now what is this but to maintain Ignorance; for when men shall be taught that for sundry points of Religion they may beleeue as the Church believeth; that the study of the Scriptures is not to be required of them; yea, that to their good they may be barred the reading of them, if so be they know some points and principal things in the matters of faith; that common believers are not bound expressly to beleeue all the Articles of faith; that it sufficeth they beleeue the Articles of faith, by an Implicit faith, by believing as the Church believes. Few or none will haue care to profit in knowledge, if they obey these doctrines, contrary to Gods Commandements, that we should grow in knowledge, 
Coloss. 3.16.  and that his Word should dwell plentifully in vs.  Philip, 
Alas, alas, it pitieth me that you being an unlearned man, should thus meddle with the Scriptures.  George, 
And it grieveth me that you should be so hoodwinked and blinded by your teachers; but they deal with you as an vnskilfull and foolish Falkner doth by the Kingly bide the Falcon, who ties to his lewer the wing of a Iackdaw, or a Magetepie, or of a carrion Crow, and when he whistleth her off, and being aloft in her pitch, throws up his lewer and lewers her down, and taints her with this carrion flesh, and by this means maketh her sometimes fall and apt to seize vpon the like, and thus taints her; so that when a more skilful man flies her and whistels her off, expecting that from her pitch shee might fall at the spring or retriue of the Partridge in the field, or the pheasant out of the thicket, or the fowle out of the brook, he is deceived, for shee leaves the view of these wholesome fowles, and espies some of the carrion birds, seizing vpon them by reason shee was so tainted. Even so it fareth with you, when any of our Pastors, or other skilful Christians do reason with you about the heavenly truth of the Word of God, which would nourish you up unto eternal life, then do you seize vpon the carrion invention of human traditions,( and leave the wholesome food of the Word of God) as these, the Church cannot err, and we must beleeue as the Church believeth, by infoulded or implicit faith; and also that Images are lay mens books, and yet the Scripture saith, that Images and idols are teachers of lies. And the Prophet Habakuk saith, that the just man lives by his own faith: and Paul also saith, I live by faith in the son of God. This shows that we must live and be saved by our own particular faith, and not by the Implicit and unknown faith of the Church.  Philip, 
Your reasoning Sir, shows you are an heretic, and an enemy to the Doctrine of the Church of Rome, and therefore I will not beleeue you, but will maintain Rome to be the true Church, and will hold her faith.  George, 
I perceive you are ignorant, what the Church is, and also what is the faith of the Church,& therefore if it please you, I will( as I haue learned) describe the Church unto you, and also the faith of the Church; but the faith of the Church will be somewhat large, and therefore we will defer that to our further meeting.  Philip, 
Further meetings man, do you think that I dare haue private meetings with heretics, so shall I incur the censures of the Church, and my confessor when I come to confession, will enjoin me pennance grievously, more for this sin of conference with heretics perhaps, then for any other of my sins.  George, 
You still style me heretic, but this is my comfort, if I be railed vpon for the name of Christ, the spirit of God and of Christ, doth rest vpon me. But senior Philip, let not the censures of your Church, and the penance enjoined by your Confessor dismay you, for you know that a small matter of your Indian-gold will command all: but if I could by my private persuasions through Gods blessing draw you to a holy liking of our Religion, it would also stop all your fear that way. Oh senior Philip, my hearty desire unto God is, that you& many poor seduced souls that are in this kingdom, yea, and many of my own kindred in blood, who are so deceived in the choice of their Religion, would better and more seriously look into the Lords vineyard planted in this kingdom by our Lord God and Saviour Iesus Christ. Oh, I say, that he would make you his adopted servants and children, and sand you to his Labourers our reverend Pastors, who would not evilly entreat you, beate you, and sand you away empty, as those evil husbandmen mentioned in the gospel, but would give you of the Grapes, the juice and wine whereof would be as Aqua vitae, even Water of eternal life unto you.  Philip, 
You almost persuade me to become a Protestant.  George, 
It were your happiness, if you were not almost but altogether a Protestant, and were assuredly persuaded of the truth of our Religion, and the falseness of your own in many grounds of saving truth.  Philip, 
If I should condescend to haue often meetings to confer, what should be the subject of our speech and conference.  George, 
The Articles of the Christian or catholic faith, which principles if a man well understand in some reasonable maturity of judgement, he shall the better understand his reading of the Scriptures, and judge better of heresies and Controversies; for against these principles, which is the analogy of fait● no exposition of Scripture may be received. Its called by Paul, the form of Doctrine. It is like mount Nebo, which God set Moses vpon, to view the whole Land of Canaan. So he which is well grounded in these principles or analogy of faith, shall in some comfortable manner understand the reading of all the holy Scriptures, and he shall the better understand divinity, Lectures, and public Sermons. I would to God our Pastors would be more diligent in Catechizing their several flocks in the saving grounds of Gods truth. How would our Church abound in the knowledge of God, 
Isa. 53 11. joh. 17.3.  and of Iesus Christ; the saving knowledge of whom is eternal life. What a flourishing Church should we haue, as I haue seen and heard in one Parish in the suburbs of London for experience, I mean Shoreditch; a place well known formerly to be full and abounding in wickedness, but now better reformed: the youth by Catechizing so wonderfully instructed in the principal grounds of the Lords truth, that it hath joyed my heart to hear and see it: the painful labours of their Pastor through Gods blessing hath so prospered, that many of the youth can in a manner repeat every verse or Sermon they hear verbatim, repeating both the divisions and subdivisions, and the proofs of Scripture for every division. This I will say, thankes be to God that many of our Pastors by this kind of teaching haue done worthily, but the Pastor of Shoreditch surmounteth them all in my judgement, I mean so many as I haue been acquainted with, in their ministry; I am not acquainted with the man, nor he with me, but I hope I may glorify God in his just commendation.  Philip, 
But is this the onely way to the obtaining of the knowledge of salvation?  George, 
I do not say it is the onely way, for a man may come to the knowledge of these grounds by hearing Sermons, by conference, by reading the Scriptures, and by private study: but I say, without the knowledge of these principal grounds there can be no salvation: and I say that a man may be ignorant of some grounds, and yet be saved, so that his Ignorance be not affencted in a dead security, he using means daily to increase his knowledge. And if it pleased God that the temporal power and the discipline of our Church, wou●d more urge this manner of teaching, that the several families of your Religion, I mean the Papists, might come to the Churches though the governours do not, yet their children and servants to be instructed in these heavenly grounds of truth; for I imagine the children and seruants not so settled in the dregs of that Religion as the governors are: Oh, how would it be a means to advance the ark of Gods truth in their several families, and a means of the fall of the Idolatrous Dagon of Popery. Also I would it were urged more vpon our profane Protestants, who are indifferent what Religion they be of. How would it dispossess Satan of his several habitations, by ignorance and other accustomable sins of this wicked world.  Philip, 
Well, since we haue entered thus far into discourse, let me hear your description of the Church, that I may know how to yield due obedience unto her.  George, 
Although I am a poor, weak, and unworthy man to unfold this mystery unto you, yet as well as I can, and haue learned, I will make known the Church unto you, according to my promise.  Philip, 
Come on, let me know now what is the Church?  George, 
I answer; That the Church is two ways to be understood, as it is visible, and also as it is invisible. As it is invisible it is properly and indeed the Church of Christ. But give me leave, senior Philip, a little to digress. You  told me even now of the treasure your King and country is enriched with by Gold from India. I thank God our country and King is stored with all manner of necessary temporal treasures, yea, in abundance, for our maintenance, for the weal public, and common state thereof, above many our neighbour Countries. Besides, God hath enriched our Land with treasure far surpassing the gold of India, yea of Ophir; which you if you will play the good Merchant factor whilst you are here, you may enrich yourself, I mean not with the transitory things of this life, for that is natural and desired of all men: but I mean the supernatural treasure of Gods holy truth, the principal jewel whereof is Christ Iesus, whose righteousness will so enrich you, that you shall be accepted of God as gloriously perfect and pure in his sight. This can no man by nature desire or thirst after, but onely he which is endued with supernatural grace from heaven. I tell you, senior Philip, this treasure is everlasting, and an enduring substance, never vanishing; for if I should prodigally bestow on you all that small mite of this treasure, which God in mercy hath enriched me with, I should be never the poorer, but increase my talent greatly: but if you should in a prodigal mind give me all your Indian Gold, you would make yourself but poor, and a beggar.  Philip, 
Well, come senior George, let me hear your further description of the invisible Church.  George, 
The Church, I say, which is properly, truly, and indeed the Spouse and Church of Christ, is, as I haue said, invisible, and also mystical and spiritual, it is also the blessed, and happy, and sanctified, and holy Church of Christ: the several members whereof haue to their great comfort evident marks set on them by God, whereby it may be known, that they are united to this mystical body.  Philip, 
I thought you would venture to deal in high points that are too deep for your understanding, you being ignorant and unlearned, altogether without Arts, either of logic, or rhetoric, or other Sciences; you haue no languages, no not so much as the common latin tongue, and therefore how can you edify any in these deep points wanting these helps.  George, 
I grant that Arts, and languages, and human learning, are good gifts of God, and good handmaids unto divinity and theology: but you dignify the handmaid, and disgrace the mistress. Nay, I know that there be many, not onely of your Religion, but of ours also, that do so much advance in their affection, secular and human learning, being the seruant, that in a manner they thrust the mistress theology or divinity out of the doors of their hearts. Nay, I tell you senior Philip, that Arts, learning, and gifts of tongues, be but as the wisdom of the Serpent, if they be advanced above, or not joined with the mistress divinity, the innocent dove to serve her as her servants and inferiors. For Arts and human learning doth but prove by Arguments of things proposed or in question, whereby reason may be enlightened or informed, which is of things which reason can reach unto; but divinity Preached, doth beget faith, which faith doth apprehended and assent unto things supernatural, which reason cannot attain unto, and therefore faith resteth itself vpon the testimony of the word and spirit of God: as the Prophet Isaiah saith, who hath believed our report; so that faith relieth vpon the report of the Prophets and Apostles. 
joh. 2.25.26.27.  We may see a very good example hereof, even in Thomas, who would not beleeue the report of the Disciples of Christs resurrection, except he might haue an argument to prove it to his sense and reason, he would not beleeue; For, saith he, unless I shall see the print of the nailes in his hands, and shall thrust my finger into the prints, I will not beleeue. And the Disciples being together eight dayes after, Thomas being with them, Christ came and said to Thomas, Bring thy finger hither, and see my hands, and bring in thy hand, and thrust it into my side, and be not faithless but faithful. observe here how our Saviour doth reprove him, because he would not beleeue the Disciples report, but would haue that which they had spoken proved by an argument to his sense and reason: 
Vers. 29.  and therefore Iesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed, blessed are those which haue not seen and yet haue believed. And the Author to the Hebrewes saith, 
Heb. 11.1.  That faith is the evidence of things unseen. And out of mine own experience, the simplo preaching of the faith in the naked, plain, and simplo style of the Scriptures, using also the phrases not refined by Art, but such simply as the Word of God useth, doth more good in converting sinners unto God, then those who use the lofty style and phrases coined by Art.  Philip. 
But senior George, is there no use of Art and learning in the ministry of the Word?  George, 
God forbid I should say so; for Moses was learned in all the wisdom of the Egyptians; and Paul was learned, and saith, 
1 Tim. 3.6.  that a Bishop may not be a young scholar: and he saith to Titus, 
Tit. 1.9.  that an Elder must be able to exhort with wholesome doctrine, and convince them that say against it. Which sheweth that learning is necessary in a Minister to maintain Gods truth against all wicked men and heretics, who by their learning will oppose the truth: it is good in a learned auditory; but he is a good Doctor which can teach to the capacity of the simplest; and to the learned also when occasion serveth.  Philip, 
But I pray you proceed in your description of the Church, without further digression: How is it invisible, that which you say is properly the body and Church of Christ.  George, 
First therefore I will show that it is the body of Christ, then next that it is his invisible body. The first is proved by Paul; So we being many are one body in Christ, 
Rom. 12.5.  and every one one anothers members: for by one spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Iewes or Gentiles, whether we bond or free, 
1 Cor. 1.13.  and haue been all made to drink into one spirit. So that you see by this Text, that this union with Christ is by the baptism of the spirit, whether we be Iewes or Grecians, all makes one body: 
Vers. 27.  now ye are the body of Christ, and members for your part. And to add one place more, the Apostle saith, 
1 Cor. 10.17.  We being many are one bread and one body: for we are all partakers of one bread. I think these places do sufficiently prove it to be the body of Christ: besides other places, as in the colossians. Besides, 
Col. 1.24.  as a husband and a wife are no more twain but one flesh, so is Christ and his Church but one spiritual body, 
Chap. 2.19. Ephe. 1.23. 2 Cor. 11.2.  for Christ is the head and husband thereof; for I haue prepared you for one husband, to present you as a pure virgin unto Christ: and in the Revelation it is said by John, that he saw the new jerusalem come down from God out of heaven, 
Rev. 21.2.  prepared as a bride trimmed for her husband. Now what a heavenly thing it is to be of this Church, and of this body. What a blessed Communion haue they that are thus united to Christ? This is the right communion of Saints; and this is double, first the fellowship and communion with the body, and one member with another; next the fellowship and communion with Christ the head. And this is explained by S. John, in these words; That I say which we haue seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may haue fellowship with us, and that our fellowship also may be with the Father, and with his son Iesus Christ. Wicked men do delight and brag of their good fellowship in wickedness and vanity, but such as walk in some measure in a good Conscience in the ways of God, what fellowship and company haue they? See what the Author to the Hebrewes saith; 
Heb. 2.2 3.4  But ye are come unto the mount Sion, and to the city of the living God, the celestial jerusalem, and to the company of innumerable Angels, and to the assembly and Congregation of the first born, which are written in heaven, and to God the judge of all, and to the spirits of just and perfect men, and to Iesus the Mediator of the new Testament, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things then that of Abell. What fellowship can be compared to this glorious communion of Saints? Oh happy man is he that enjoyeth this fellowship!  Philip, 
Indeed you say true, but I pray how is it invisible?  George, 
I answer, thus it is not in us to discern the reprobate from the elect, 
2 Tim. 2.19.  therefore it is said in Timothy, the Lord knoweth who are his; 
Col. 3.3.  and in the Colossians, ye are dead and your life is hide with Christ in God; as if he should haue said, you are dead in respect of the knowledge of the world; yea and of your fellow members in the world; for your life is hide with Christ in God, secret from the knowledge of all other; God knoweth the hearts; for it is said in the Acts thou Lord which knowest the hearts of all men. 
Act. 1.14.15.  And again, 
Rom 8.27.  God which knoweth the hearts: and but he that seacheth the hearts. All the Israelites knew nathaniel to be an Israelite, but not to be one without guile: this our Saviour onely knew, who seeth the very hearts, and therefore gave testimony of him certainly, 
joh. 1.47.  which men could not do; Behold indeed an Israelite in whom there is no guile. If a man profess zeal to Religion, 
joh. 21.15.  and love to Christ, as Peter did, charity is prove to beleeue he doth it indeed, as all charitable persons will conjecture he doth so, as long as they see no cause to the contrary: but that this zeal and love is found and sincere, that it proceedeth from a pure heart, 
1 Tim. 1.5.  and a good Conscience, and faith unfeigned, God onely which knoweth the heart can pronounce; one Christian may to his comfort judge of the blessed spiritual estate of a Christian brother, but this is a judgement conjectural of charity, and not of infallible certainty. And thus I hope I haue in some measure and reasonable manner proved unto you the Invisibilitie of the Church.  Philip, 
But how is this proper body of Christ mystical?  George, 
It is so called, because the mystery of their coniunction is hidden from our sense and reason.  Philip, 
Is there no place of Scripture to prove it mystical?  George, 

Ephes. 5.32.  Yes; in the Ephesians, This is a great secret, but I speak concerning Christ, and concerning the Church. From the 22. to the 32 verse, the Apostle wisheth wives to submit themselves to their husbands; the reason is because he is the head as Christ is the head of the Church. And in the 30. verse, it is said, For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones: and in the 32. verse, he saith, this is a great secret, and therefore mystical, but I speak concerning Christ and concerning the Church, as if he should say, the coniunction between man and wife may be known, but the coniunction between Christ and his Church is secret, and therefore mystical, and therefore we must needs conclude, that the Church is his mystical body.  Philip, 
But how is this body of Christ spiritual?  George, 
I answer, the beginning of the new birth is the gracious work of the spirit of God, and therfore every regenerate man is a spiritual man, such as the beginning is, such must he be which is born a new: this new beginning, which is spiritual, must needs produce a spiritual estate, and therefore those persons which by the mercy of God are brought out of the state of corrupted nature, into the state of grace by new birth, are termed spiritual men. Furthermore, that the body of Christ as it is invisible and mystical( as which already I haue proved) so it is also spiritual. First I prove it from the spiritual birth thus; for Paul saith to the Galatians, 
Gal. 4.29.  As then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the spirit; even so it is now: so then he that is born a spiritual man, is so called, as in the Corinths, but he that is spiritual discerueth all things. 
1 Cor. 2.15. Gal 6.1. Rom. 8.5.  And in the Galatians, ye which are spiritual; and to the Romans, but they that are after the spirit savour the things of the spirit. And in Peter, ye also as living stones be made a spiritual house. 
1 Pet. 2.5.  spiritual is opposed unto carnal. How we should behave ourselves as spiritual men, we shall hear anon.  Philip, 
But how is this body of Christ holy?  George, 
Thus far of the proper Church of Christ, as it is his body, as it is invisible, mystical, and as it is his spiritual body. Now to answer to your Question, it is holy two ways: first, by justification, and secondly by Sanctification.  Philip, 
What is justification?  George, 
I answer, that it is certain, that all those which are by Gods free goodness and mercy mystically united unto Christ, and be his invisible and spiritual body, must needs be perfect, pure, and holy in Gods sight, for in that body there must be no putrefied and corrupted members, and therefore I answer again to your Question, that justification is an action of God whereby he pardoneth and absolveth a sinner, and accepteth of him as pure, righteous, and holy in his sight.  Philip, 
But how are they made pure, holy, and righteous in his sight.  George, 
By Gods merciful divine imputation of the perfect holinesse and righteousness of Christ, unto all these his spiritual members.  Philip, 
What be the Scriptures you prove it by?  George, 

2 Cor. 5.21.  First in Paul to the Corinths, he saith, For he hath made him to be sin for us which knew no sin, that we should be made the righteousness of God in him: 
Rom. 5.19.  and to the Romans, for as by one mans disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of that one shall many be made righteous: and in the Canticles Christ saith to his Spouse and Church, 
Cant. 4.7. Reve. 12.1.  Thou art faire my love, and there is no spot in thee. And in Revelat. there appeared a great wonder in heaven, a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon was under her feet, and vpon her head a crown of twelve stones. But where was this wonder in heaven, in the glorious and joyful estate of the Church of grace, under the ministry of the gospel, which in many places is called the kingdom of heaven, as in Math. 11. is, and 21.1. and 15.1. but what was this wonder; a woman clothed with the sun, this woman is generally the whole Church militant here vpon the earth: specially and particularly every true believer, 
Iosea. 2.19.  because all such are married to Christ. Now in that this woman is said to be clothed with the sun, thereby is signified Gods merciful imputation of Christs his righteousness, so clothing her like a wedding garment, that God by means thereof seeth no sin in her. For being spiritually clothed with this garment of Christs righteousness, shee doth appear glorious, holy, and righteous in Gods sight. And by the moon under her feet is meant all mutable profits, pleasures, and promotions of this world, yea, and of her own poor and imperfect righteousness and sanctification in this world, which shee may well be said also in some sort to tread under her feet, because she accounteth them not as garments wherewith shee must appear absolutely just before God,& justified in his sight, but in that respect rather with S. Paul, doth count them as dung; 
Phil. 3.8. Isaiah. 64.6.  and with the Prophet Isaiah, as a menstruous cloth. So that whatsoever is wanting unto this Church, or to any member of it, either of spiritual wisdom, and knowledge, or of holinesse and righteousness, or for matter of merit and satisfaction, to answer Gods justice, and to free it from the guilt of sin and Gods wrath due thereunto, it is all abundantly supplied in Christ; which is all plainly shewed in one verse in Paul to the Corinthians.  Philip, 
Is all this to be proved in one verse, I pray you let me hear it?  George, 
The first to the Corinths 1.30. 
1 Cor. 1.30.  But ye are of him in Christ Iesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom and righteousness and sanctification and redemption: all the treasures of the gospel are in Christ stored up for us: in him is all perfection of wisdom and knowledge of God, both of his essence and subsistence; or persons, the union of both natures, with the communion of the properties of both natures that work for our redemption, together with all knowledge both of God and of the works of God, which we are bound to know, which is all of it by Gods gracious gift freely given unto this his Church: and he is made unto us righteousness, because whatsoever the Lord did or doth require, touching Religion toward God, or charity toward men, this is all likewise treasured up also in him, and performed by him, and given by like gift of God to this his Church: and he is made unto us sanctification, because whatsoever inherent holinesse and righteousness and purity of nature in the will and affections, and in the whole man, was by the Law required of us, it is most perfect in him, and is bestowed also on this invisible Church: and he is made redemption unto us: redemption, I say, from all power of sin: redemption from all guiltiness, whereby we are bound by the Law to undergo the punishment of sin, and redemption from the punishment itself; all which is treasured up in Christ, and the benefit of it by God mercifully imputed unto this Church. Thus I hope I haue in some reasonable manner proved the holinesse of this Church by justification.  Philip, 
Now let me hear how this spiritual body and Church of Christ is by sanctification made holy?  George, 
I answer, that as no man can come to Christ, except the Father draw him: 
joh. 6.44.  so none that are drawn to Christ, but are mystically and spiritually knit unto him; now it pleaseth the Father to sand the spirit to make this blessed marriage between Christ& his Spouse the Church. Which Church being thus united unto Christ, it is made also partaker of inherent holinesse from Christ her head and husband derived unto her, and is in part also inherently sanctified by his spirit; And so by means of this sanctification, the Church militant is in part inherently holy in this world; howsoever here indeed these spiritual members of Christ receive but the first fruits of the spirit of holinesse, 
Rom. 8.23.  the full vintage they shall haue when they triumph in glory: 
1 Thes. 4.1.  therefore the Apostle Paul willeth us to increase more and more: 
2 Pet 3.18.  and Peter exhorts to grow in grace and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Iesus Christ. And the Author to the Hebrewes saith, 
Heb. 6.1.  let us go forward to perfection; and although this spiritual body and Church of Christ militant be not perfect in degrees of holinesse, yet it pleaseth the holy Ghost by the ministry of Peter, 
Exod. 14.6. 1 Pet. 2 9. Rev. 11.9. And 12.19.  to call them a chosen generation, a royal Priesthood, an holy Nation: and in the Revelation, the holy city: this sanctification and holinesse of this militant Church, hath two parts, the first is mortification, or killing our natural corruption, or original sin; the second is vivification, whereby this Church is renewed in the Image of God in righteousness and true holinesse. Mortification is proved by Paul, 
Gala. 5.24.  in these words; They which are Christs haue crucified the flesh, with the affections and lusts thereof. red for this Rom. How shall we that are dead to sin, 
Rom. 6.23.4.  live yet therein. Know ye not that all we which haue been baptized into Iesus Christ, haue been baptized into his death. We are then buried with him by baptism into his death, that like as Christ was raised up from the dead to the glory of his Father, so should we also walk in newness of life. The means that work mortification is the death and burial of Christ; 
Rom. 6.6.  as in Rom. Our old man is crucified with him that the body of sin might be destroyed.  
Vivification is the second part of this inherent holinesse of the invisible militant Church of Christ, whereby they are in part renewed in holinesse and righteousness, by which the Image of God is again repaired in them: 
Eph. 4.23.24.  for which I prove by Paul to the Ephesians, in these words; And be renewed in the spirit of your mind: and put on the new man which after God is created unto righteousness and true holinesse. And the same Apostle saith to the Galatians; but I live, yet not I any more, 
Gal. 2.20.  but Christ liveth in me: and in that that I now live in the flesh, I live by the faith in the son of God, who hath loved me, and given himself for me. And again, he saith to the Ephesians; 
Ephe. 2.1.  And you hath he quickened which were dead in trespasses and sins. So that you may by these places perceive, that the matter of the Churches life of grace in holinesse is Christ, who dwelleth in the heart by faith. To this end Paul to the Corinthians saith; 
1 Cor. 15.45.  The first man Adam was made a living soul, and the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.  
The efficient cause of mortification and vivification, and of our whole sanctification, is the spirit of God, who by his vnresistable power convayes himself into the regenerate and believing mans heart,& doth in them apply the power of Christ his death and resurrection; and by this createth holinesse, as in the Rom. Now ye are not in the flesh, but in the spirit, 
Rom. 8.9.11.  because the spirit of God dwelleth in you; but if any man haue not the spirit of Christ, the same is not his. Vers. 11. But if the spirit of him that raised Christ from the dead dwell in you, he shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his spirit that dwelleth in you. And in John; 
joh. 6.63. Math. 3.11. joh. 3.5.  It is the spirit that quickeneth. The spirit is resembled to fire and water, both which haue cleansing natures.  Philip, 
Is there no other means whereby the holinesse of this spiritual and militant body and Church of Christ is effected.  George, 
Yes; there are two other means whereby this Church is made holy: the first is faith, the second, is the Word of God.  Philip, 
How is faith a means to make this Church holy?  George, 
I answer, that it is a clear case in divinity, both in the Old and also in the New Testament, that Christ Iesus is the seed of the Woman that should break the Serpents head: Which was promised to our first parents Adam and eve; and it is also clear, that he is of the seed of Abraham and David, unto whom this promise was renewed: and it is manifestly clear also, that this Christ Iesus is the sovereign plaster and medicine for the cure of all the sores, botches, boils, and plagues of our sins; and also it is clear that the receipt of this sovereign medicine is our cure, and none do receive this for the cure of them, but the members of this invisible and spiritual body, or Church of Christ. Now I answer again to your question, that faith doth it by applying this sovereign medicine to the wounds and sores of our sins. I would haue you to consider what is the nature of faith. In faith there is three things distinctly to be considered, as I take it: the first is apprehension, whereby a man in his understanding doth know Christ to be a sovereign medicine for sin. The next is assent, whereby a man doth aclowledge him to be a true medicine, able perfectly to cure his sin. The third is application, whereby a man doth lay and apply this sovereign medicine to the sores of his sins. And thus doth faith justify before God, and maketh holy in this world evangelically and in part. There be three special theological virtues, without the which God doth not save any; these are faith, hope, and love; faith apprehendeth and applieth the promises of grace in Christ; hope expecteth and patiently waiteth for the accomplishment of them; love is so inflamed with them, that it being as the hand of faith, it worketh by way of thankfulness all duties of Religion, both of piety towards God and justice and true charity towards man. Now all these three virtues are given of God. That faith is his gift, is proved by these places and many more. First, to the Philippians; For unto you it is given for Christ, 
Phil. 2.29.  that not onely you should beleeue in him, but also suffer for his sake. And in the Hebrewes; Looking unto Iesus the Author and finisher of your faith. 
Heb. 12.2.  And that faith doth purify and make holy, these places make plain; By faith he purified their hearts. 
Act. 15.9.  And again, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, 
And 26.8.  and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith in me. And thus I haue proved the holinesse of the Church by the means of faith. Now that the Word of God is a means also of the Churches holinesse, I prove it thus. First, there is no saving knowledge of God, or of Christ, or of the spirit, and the work of the Father through the son by the spirit, but it is the Word that revealeth it unto us, and that most purely if wee haue the spirit truly to discern it and conceive it, and therefore the Word doth make holy, by declaring the form and manner of holinesse, which God worketh and requireth to be in all his children. I say it is the outward means by which God doth call us and frame us unto holinesse. It is the Lords pruning hook, whereby he trimmeth and pruneth the trees of mens hearts, to make them bring forth fruits of holinesse; which if it effect not, it is his Axe to hue them down for the fire. David saith, the Word of God is proved most pure, 
Psal 119.40. joh. 17.17. 1 Tim. 4.5.  and therefore them whom it winneth unto God, it maketh holy and pure. Paul saith, All creatures are sanctified by the Word, therefore his children whom he hath newly created in his own Image are sanctified and made holy by it. 
Exod. 19.10.  Moses was commanded to sanctify the people, when the Lord was to come down vpon mount Sinai in their fight; even so must the Ministers of God, sanctify and make holy by the Word, those that must appear before God in the heavenly mount Sinai. I might allege many reasons to prove that the Word is the outward means of the holinesse of the Church, which for brevity sake I omit. And thus I haue proved the holinesse of this invisible Church both by justification and also by sanctification.  Philip, 
What meaneth the word catholic, and which is the catholic Church?  George, 
Your question is good, and as well as I can I will satisfy your demand therein: by the word catholic, as I take it, is meant a generality, both of the Articles of faith, and also of the members of the Church. For this word catholic hath relation to both. There is but one faith which is general, and every Article particularly severed, is as a part of that whole frame; and so also the Church is but one, and every particular member is as a part of the whole. Now, this word catholic doth note out the large extent and universality of the Church, and also of faith. It is called catholic, for three causes; for, first it is general in respect of time, because the Church and the faith thereof, haue been in all times and ages of the world: secondly, it is general in respect of the persons of men: for it stands of some of all sorts and degrees of men, high and low, rich and poor, learned and unlearned: thirdly, it is universal in respect of place, because it hath been gathered from all parts of the earth. All the Articles of faith are of things unseen; as it is in the Hebrewes; 
Heb. 11.1.  Now faith is the ground of things which are hoped for, and the evidence of things which are not seen. And the Church which we profess to beleeue in the creed is invisible, as I haue proved. And it is called catholic, to distinguish it from particular Churches which are seen with the eye, and not believed; as look to the Corinthians, where it is said; The Churches of Asia salute you; 
1 Cor. 16.19. Col. 4.15. Act. 11.22. Act. 13.1.  Aquila and Priscilla, with the Church that is in their house salute you greatly in the Lord. And again, Salute Nimphas, and the Church which is in his house, and the Church of jerusalem, and the Church of Antioch, and also the seven Churches of Asia, mentioned in the Revelations.  Philip, 
But can you prove the catholic invisible Church by the Scriptures?  George, 
Yes, that I can, both by the Old and New Testaments. First in Abrahams time, the Church was not included in his family; for Melchisedech was the Priest of the most high God, who lived in Abrahams time. And there were other catholic professors, 
Gen. 14.28.  whose Priest Melchisedech was. again, in the time of the Israelites bondage in Egypt, Moses flying into Midian, 
Exod. 2.21.  married the Priest of Midians daughter, which is probable he would not haue done if the Priest had not been a catholic professor: I take it to be certain that he was a catholic professor; For when Moses  told him all that the Lord had done unto Pharaoh, 
Exod 18.8.  and to the Egyptians for Israels sake, and how the Lord had delivered them, therefore jethro said, Blessed be the Lord who hath delivered you out of the hands of the Egyptians: and he saith, 
Vers. 10.  
Vers. 11.  now I know that the Lord is greater then all the gods, for as they dealt proudly with them, so are they recompensed: then jethro Moses father in law, 
Vers. 12.  took burnt offerings and sacrifices to offer unto God, both his thankful acknowledgement in blessing the Lord, and his confession of the greatness of the Lord above all other gods: and his offering sacrifice to God, doth show him to be a true catholic. The catholic Church now in the time of the new Testament is especially general and universal. 
Rev. 7.9.  To which purpose John saith in the Revelation; I beholded and lo a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations and kindreds, people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the lamb, clothed with long white robes, and palms in their hands. And our Saviour saith, 
Math. 26.13.  The gospel shall be preached throughout the world. And where it is preached, it begetteth faithful children unto God. And so much for the catholikenesse of the Church.  Philip, 
Now let me hear what you can say for the happiness of this invisible Church.  George, 
The happiness of this Church which is Christs invisible body, is unspeakable, and I am unworthy of myself to unfold it unto you, but so far forth as I haue learned by the Word of God, and the ministry of our Church, I will by Gods grace unfold it un●o you, as I haue promised.  Philip, 
But wherein consists the happiness of this Church?  George, 
The ground and efficient cause of the happiness of this invisible Church, is Gods free election; and the first entrance into this happiness is his free reconciliation by means of the mediation of Christ. 
Rom. 8.   Philip, 
What is the happiness which follows this reconciliation by the mediation of Christ.  George, 
Their happiness is to be considered in three parts or respects; first, in their life in this world; secondly, in their death; thirdly, after death.  Philip, 
Let me hear their happiness in this life. 
1 Cor. 5.27.17. Gal. 6.15. joh. 3.5. Gal 4.16.   George, 
First vpon reconciliation they are made new creatures, and are conceived of the spirit, in the womb of the Church, and are born not of blood, 
●oh. 6.13. ●●al. 4.6.7.  nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God, who in Christ is their father: so that the image of God their Father is renewed in them every day more and more. Ephes. 4.2.3. Col. 3.10.13. Secondly, the members of this Church for the merits of Christ his active and passive obedience in his sufferings and death, haue all their sins original and actual, with the guilt and punishment belonging to them, freely pardonned and forgiven them. Rom. 8.1. 2. Rom. 4.8.25. 1 Pet. 2.24. And all the righteousness of Christ as freely imputed unto them, and so God is reconciled unto them, and approveth them as holy and righteous in his sight and account. Rom. 4.5.19. 2 Cor. 5.19. Rom. 8.33.34. Thirdly, they are freed from the bondage of Satan, Act. 26.18. Ephe. 2.2. and are made brethren of Christ and fellow heires of his heavenly kingdom, joh. 20.17. and spiritual Kings and Priestes, Reue. 1.6. 1 Pet. 2.5. to offer up spiritual sacrifices unto God by Iesus Christ. Fourthly, God spareth them as a man spareth his own son that serveth him. Mal. 3.17. This sparing them, is first in not taking notice of every fault, but bearing with them and their infirmities. No father that loveth his child, will turn him out of his doors when he is sick. again, secondly, he doth not make their corrections and chastisements as great as their deserts. Thirdly, God doth not afflict them as a severe judge, but moderately chastise them as a loving Father, when he seeth that they will not by any other means be reclaimed. Fourthly, God graciously accepteth their endeavours, notwithstanding the imperfection of their works and obedience, and so preferring the true willingness of their mindes, before the worthiness of their works. Fiftly, he turneth the curses of the Law, which they deserve, to fatherly chastisements, crosses, and corrections, yea all things and all calamities of this life, death itself, yea their very sins unto their good.  
Fiftly, he gives them the holy Spirit, which first sanctifieth them by degrees throughout, so that they do more and more die to sin and live to righteousness. Secondly, assures them of their adoption,& that they are by grace the children of God. Thirdly, encourageth them to come with boldness and confidence into the presence of Gods throne. Fourthly, moveth them without fear to say unto him, Abba Father. Fiftly, poureth into their hearts the gift of true invocation and prayer. sixthly, the spirit persuadeth them that both they and their prayers are accepted and heard of God, for the mediation of Christ. seventhly, the spirit fills them, first with peace of conscience: secondly, with joy in the holy Ghost: in comparison whereof, all earthly joys seem vile and vain unto them. sixthly, the members of Christs spiritual body, haue the recovery of their sovereignty over the creatures, which was lost by Adams fall, and they haue a free liberty of the use of all things which God hath not restrained, so that they may use them with a good conscience; for to all things both in heaven and earth, they haue a sure title in this life, and they shall haue the full and peaceable possession of them in the life to come. It is clear from hence, that all wicked reprobates are but usurpers, and no better then theeues& robbers of all that they possess, and haue nothing that they may lay lawful claim to, nor no place of their own but hell. seventhly, they haue assurance of Gods provident care and fatherly protection over them both day and night. Which care and protection consists in three things. First, in providing for their souls and bodies, concerning this life and that which is to come, so that they shall be sure ever either to haue enough or patience to be content with that they haue. Secondly, his holy Angels as Ministers he giveth charge to attend vpon them always for their good: yea in danger to pitch their tents about them for their safety where ever they be: yea Gods care and protection shall defend them as a cloud by day, and as a pillar of fire by night: and his providence shall hedge them from the power of the devill. Thirdly, in that the eyes of the Lord are vpon them, and his ears continually open to hear their cry& complaint, and in his good time to deliver them out of all their troubles.  Philip, 
It seemeth by this which you haue said, that the happiness of this invisible Church is great, even in this life. But how are the several members thereof happy in their death?  George, 

Eccle. 7.3.  The holy Ghost saith in Ecclesiastes, The day of death is better then the day that one is born. And David vpon this ground, saith; 
●al. 23.4.  Though I should walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear none evil. These spiritual members do hold Christ even in life and death to be their advantage; 
●hil 1.2.  and count it the best ●o be loosed and to be with Christ; They are blessed that die in the Lord, 
●ev. 14 13.  for they rest from their labours, both of sin and of misery, and they do pray unto God that he would let them depart in peace, and why, because by the eye of faith they haue seen Christ Iesus to be their salvation: and they know that Christ hath overcome death, 
●uk. 2.23.30.  and pulled out his sting, which is sin: they know that Christ hath by the power of his death overcome him that had the power of death, 
Cor. 15.55.56.57.  which is the devill, that he might deliver all them which for fear of death were all their time subject to bondage. 
Heb. 14.15.  unto these regenerate children of God, death is so welcome, that when God sends him as a messenger to fetch their souls out of this life, they in a manner meet him half way to heaven; for their conversation and affection is in heaven already, 
Phil. 3.10. Col. 3.2.  sent thither before themselves, and death is no strange thing to them, for they exercise themselves to die daily: both from sin, and also with patience under the cross: no, the terrors of death do not affright them, for they know that whilst they lived they were dead, 
Col. 3.3.  and that their life was hide with Christ in God: they are desirous to go home to their fathers house out of this mortal pilgrimage, 
2 Cor. 5.6. joh. 14.2. Heb. 12 22. &c.  to the city of the living God, the heavenly jerusalem, to an innumerable company of Angels, to the general assembly, &c. as I haue declared before. Touching the body of the Church, whilst they are sick God will comfort them in their bed of sorrow, 
Psal. 41.3.  for God maketh all their bed in their sickness; and he giveth them faith and patience to bear their sickness: and for the most part when they are beginning to enter into the conflict with death, which is the way of all flesh; their behaviour is gracious to the comfort of their Christian friends about them, uttering gracious and blessed exhortations to their children, servants, and friends, to live faithfully in the service of the true God all their life: yet oft times the violence of their diseases may be such that it hindereth the grace of their mind, that they cannot utter the comfort to others as they would. The souls of this Spouse of Christ fear not death, neither temporal nor eternal, but are bold to remove and to go out of the body, and to dwell with the Lord: 
2 Cor. 3.8.  and they do with David, pant in soul after thee O God, their soul thirsteth for God, even for the living God: 
Psal. 42.2.  When shall we come and appear before the presence of God. Th●y desire with Paul, 
Phil. 1.23.  to be loosed and to be with Christ: they do pray, how long Lord, 
Rev. 6.10. And 22.10.  which art holy and true, come Lord Iesus com● quickly; and when their departure is come that they must die, they willingly yield up the ghost, saying with David, into thy hands, O Lord, 
Psal. 32.5.  I commend my soul, for thou hast redeemed me, O Lord thou God of truth. And with Steven, Lord Iesus receive my spirit. 
Act. 7.59  And they no sooner yield unto nature, and give up the ghost, but the holy Angels, who attend vpon them from their birth to their death, 
Math. 18. Act. 12.15. Luk. 16.21.  convey their souls to the kingdom of heaven, which is called Abrahams bosom. Now after their departing this life, the body is or ought to be by their Christian brethren and friends, reverently interred in the earth; for the body though now dead, yet it remaines a member of the mystical body of Christ; for the spirit of God having knit Christ and his members together, death cannot sever them, 
1 Thes. 4.14. Act. 7.6. And 8.2. Dan. 12.2. joh. 5.28.29. Luk. 14.14. 1 Thes. Rev. 14.15.  and it still remaines the Temple of the holy Ghost: and their burial in the grave is but a lying to sleep as in the bed of Christ, in an assured hope to be awaked in the resurrection of the lust, and the last day to be partakers with the soul of life and glory everlasting. And thus far of their happiness in their death.  Philip, 
And what is the happiness of this invisible Church of Christ after death?  George, 
As soon as the adopted child of God hath yielded the Ghost, and surrendered his soul into the hands of Christ, the Angels take the soul and carry it to the joys of heaven; 
Luk. 16.22.  for they are all ministering spirits, 
Heb. 1.14. And 12.24.  sent forth to minister for their sakes which shall be heires of salvation: and to heaven they carry them vpon their dissolution, and in soul they possess that place which Christ at his ascension into heaven prepared for them; for he saith; 
joh. 14.2.  I go to prepare a place for you, vers. 3. and that where I am there may you be also, and there they are presented before God, and Christ, and all the blessed company of heaven, and there they are crwoned with the crown of righteousness and glory, 
Heb. 12.22.23.24. ● Tim. 4.8. Rev. 2.10. Exod. 33.2. Rev. 22.4. Psal. 17.17.  which the Lord the righteous judge will give them. In this life they could see but Gods back parts; for( said God to Moses) thou canst not see my face and live; but now they are come to see his face. And David saith, I will behold thy face in righteousness, and when I awake I shall be satisfied with thine Image. The blessedness and happiness of their souls is unspeakable.  Philip, 
What is the happiness of these invisible and spiritual members of Christ at the Resurrection and last day of Iudgement?  George, 
The manner of the last day of Iudgement shall be thus; Vpon the signs of the coming of Christ, the elect being then alive, 
Luk. 21. 2●.  shall lift up their heads with rejoicing: and at that day they shall receive the crown which the righteous judge shall give them, 
2 Tim. 4.8.  which they loved and longed for to receive at his appearing.  Philip, 
What be the signs of the last day of Iudgement?  George, 
Immediately before the coming of Christ, the powers of heaven shall be shaken, 
Ma. 24.29.30  the sun and moon shall be darkened, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and then shall the wicked mourn, 
Luk. 21.26.  and their hearts shall fail them for fear.  Philip, 
What will come of all things here in this inferior world at the day of Iudgement?  George, 
The elementary heavens shall be set on fire, and suddenly pass away like a scroll, and the elements of earth and water, 
2 Pet. 3.12.13  and all the creatures in them shall be dissolved with fire. When all these things shall be done, the sound of the last Trumpet by the Arke-angell, and Christ shall come in a moment in the Clouds with power, and glory, and a great train of Angels. 
Ma. 24 30.31   Philip, 
And what shall Gods children do at that day, both that are living and dead?  George, 
The dead bodies of the elect which are returned into their first principles, shall be by the powerful working of God recallected and gathered of the same matter which was severed and scattered into all the elements, 
1 Cor. 15.22. And 43.44. 1 Cor. 15.52.  even the self same bodies they laid down in death, though torn in pieces, shall rise again, and the souls of them shall descend from heaven, and by Gods power be brought again into those bodies, and this shall be at the sound of the Trumpet. And as for those that be then living, they shall be changed in a moment; and this mutation shall be in stead of death. And at that time all the bodies of the elect shall receive their full redemption, and be made like the glorious body of Christ; and therefore glorious, spiritual, immortal, and free from all corruption or infirmities.  Philip, 
And what is the issue and end of this their glorious Resurrection?  George, 
That they may receive the sentence of eternal absolution, for when they are all Convented before the tribunal seat of Christ, he will forthwith place the elect severed from the reprobate, and taken up into the air at his right hand, and to them being written in the book of life, he will pronounce this sentence; Come you blessed of my Father, 
Math. 25.33.34.  possess the kingdom prepared for you from the beginning of the world. And again, He shall set the sheep on his right hand, and the goats on his left, and the elect shall ever be with the Lord: 
1 Thes. 4.17.  and then after the sentence passed, shall every one of the elect receive the crown of eternal glory, which Christ the righteous judge doth give them who loved his appearing: 
2 Tim. 4.8. 1 Pet. 5.4. Rev. 4.4.  not as a reward for their merites, but as a reward of free mercy and grace, according to his promise. Then shall they sit on their thrones as Iudges of the reprobate both Angels and men, as approovers of the righteous Iudgement of Christ. From this glorious throne and tribunal seat, Christ shall arise, and with all his glorious company of elect, both Angels and Saints, he shall go up triumphantly into the third loft of the heavens, the place of Gods most special presence: so that now may that song of David be truly verified; God is gone up with triumph, 
Psal 47.56.  even the Lord with the sound of the Trumpet: sing praises to God, sing praises sing praises to our King. And the full consummation of the marriage between Christ and his Spouse the Church shall be proclaimed, and the marriage song mentioned in John shall be sung, viz. Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honor to him, for the marriage of the lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready: hallelujah, for the Lord God omnipotent reigneth.  Philip, 
And what shall then be done when this glorious company shall be gone victoriously with Christ into heaven?  George, 
I answer; Christ shall then present all the elect unto his Father, 
●oh. 17.12. ●●k 14.23.24.  as if he should say; Behold O righteous Father, these are they whom thou hast given me, I haue kept them and none of them is lost. I gave them thy Word, and they believed it, and the world hated them, because they were not of the world, even as I was not of the world; and now Father, I will that those whom thou hast given me be with me where I am, that they may behold my glory which thou hast given me: and that I may be in them and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in me: 
●oh. 12.16.  that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and that thou hast loved them as thou hast loved me.  Philip, 
And what is their estate now when Christ hath presented them unto the Father after Iudgement?  George, 
I answer; that now they enjoy immediate blessedness in heaven.  Philip, 
What is heaven?  George, 
It is a most excellent place, replenished with all pleasures that belong to eternal life, bliss, and happiness: where the majesty of God is seen face to face: 
Chro. 30.27  for which cause it is called the habitation of holinesse: 
Cor. 12.2. Cor. 5.1. to 10. ●sal. 16.11.  and Paul was taken up into the third heaven, a place after which the Saints are set a longing: here Gods presence and right hand is most manifested, for the fullness of joy and everlasting pleasures of his sons and servants. It is called, the heaven of heavens, or, the third heaven, called paradise, whether Christ in his human nature ascended far above all visible heavens. We are not able to conceive it, as in dead it is, it being a spiritual heaven, yet it is firm and transparent, otherwise should it not be a fit habitation for the bodies of men, which were not to hang in the air, but to rest in a solid place prepared of God. It pleaseth the holy spirit of God, considering our corrupted weakness, to describe the place of the glorious heaven, which we cannot estimate by such things as be most precious in mans account and estimation: and for this cause likeneth heaven to be as a great and holy city, naming it the heavenly jerusalem, where onely God and his people who are saved do dwell, such as are written in the lambs book of life, as you shall see it further largely described in the 21. of the Revelations. 
Rev. 22.  And so much for the place of their blessedness: now for the substance and object of their bliss, it is God himself, whose most special presence is in this heavenly jerusalem.  Philip, 
How is God blessedness unto his children in heaven?  George, 
By giving himself to them for their reward. The Lord said to Abraham, I am thine exceeding great reward: 
Gen. 15.1.  mark the Lord saith; I am thy reward; nay more, I am thy great reward; nay more, thy exceeding great reward. And David saith, 
Psal. 16.5.  the Lord is the portion of mine inheritance: and must not they be blessed that are thus rewarded? Yes surely; for the Psalmist saith, Blessed are the people whose God is the Lord. Now this is the reward of godly and good works, not because the works of the godly haue merited it, but by reason of Gods free favour, who accepteth their works, and that in respect of the merit of Christs justice and righteousness imputed unto the children of God. The wages of sin is death, 
Rom. 6.23. Rev. 22.12.  but eternal life is the gift of God through Iesus Christ our Lord. Behold I come shortly, and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his works shall be.  Philip. 
But are you not able to show how God doth give himself for a reward unto his children, and of their blessedness thereby?  George, 
Alas none is able to conceive or speak to any purpose of it, much less to describe it: it is such an eternal weight of glory and bliss, that all the afflictions of this present life are not worthy of it. Yet if I shall relate some small scantling thereof, as I haue learned by the Word of God and ministry of the Church, I hope I shall not be counted presumptuously bold, in regard that I am unlearned: but my conscience bears me witness, my ends are good, which are these; principally the glory of God; next the edification of the private members of the mystical body of Christ. It pleased God in the beginning of time to create the heaven and the earth, 
Rom. 1.20. Gen. 1.  and in them innumerable creatures; by which creation his eternal power and Godhead are seen; his works being considered, and these creatures were all good, now these good creatures, from the least to the greatest, according to the agensie of their created natures, do in some sort resemble their first efficient God himself, and look wherein they do resemble him, it pleaseth God to ascribe unto himself, by giving unto himself attributes accordingly: and why or what may be the reason, but onely to make himself better apprehended by us and known unto us: he is above our conceiving, and therefore for the help of our simplicity and weakness, he hath given unto himself these attributes: God doth attribute unto himself goodness, and in this attribute, all the creatures do resemble him: but we must learn to know, how, and what is the difference between the goodness that is in God, 
Psal. 106.1.  and the goodness that is in creatures: the attributes of God are, as the learned say, given unto him both in the concrete and also in the Abstract; in the concrete, the psalm last recited; and in the Abstract, when he is said to be goodness itself, and so the alone good, as our Saviour speaketh. In the first, God is good, in the second Text, God is the chiefest good, the onely good, yea goodness itself. In creatures there are degrees of goodness, as some good, some better, some better then they, some best of all, and no creatures can go any further in degrees then to be best of all: but God is above all degrees, for he is goodness itself; and so it is in all other attributes: for creatures are limited, but God is without all limits, all attributes are infinite in God, for they are his very essence. A man may be a man, though not a wise man, and he may be a man, though not a strong man, and a man though not a beautiful man, he may be a man though not a great man: but God cannot be God, except he be wise, for wisdom is his essence; and he cannot be God, except he be strong, beautiful, great, for he is wisdom itself, strength itself, beauty itself, and greatness itself. All these and many more of his attributes are infinite in him, for they are his infinite essence; take them away, and you take away his very being. Who will show us any good, 
Psal. 4.9.  saith the Psalmist in the person of the wicked? Good is desired of all men, both godly and ungodly, but what good doth the wicked desire, even temporal, vanishing, and sensitive good; but the godly desire and seek after the chief good, which is God himself, and therefore in the kingdom of bliss they enjoy him for ever. God is the very Center of the soul of man. If a man should consider those good things with which the souls of men are delighted here below; is a man delighted in wisdom, and by his labour and the blessing of GOD thereupon, hath attained a good measure of wisdom and knowledge: yet what saith the Apostle, let him that thinks he knows, and hath knowledge: know, that he knows nothing yet as he ought to know: and if a man could attain the wisdom of the wisest, even Salomon himself, yet would not the soul be filled till he obtain the Center and essence of wisdom, God himself. Is it riches with which a man is delighted? Why, here in earth the Canker and Moth corrupt, and our bags wax old, and the thief cometh to steal, 
Mat. 6.19.20.  and therefore no security in them, though a man enjoy abundance of them, nay the greatest abundance cannot satisfy the soul and mind of man, which will never be contented truly until it enjoyeth the true treasure and essence of riches, God himself in the kingdom of heaven. This is that riches which the children of God do hunger and seek after, and shall enjoy everlastingly after Iudgement. Is it praise and glory that men delight in? Earthly glory oft turneth to shane to them that desire and earnestly seek after it: but the children of God earnestly desire, delight, and seek the glory of God, and God approveth of them, and crowneth them with a crown of eternal glory for ever. All men naturally desire life, yea long life,& it is a good blessing; For( saith Salomon) long life is an honour to a man, if it be found in the way of righteousness. And sure in this world God is our life, but he is our life by means of his creatures, which are the elements and the elementary creatures composed of their mixture, but after this life he is life to his children immediately; for he not onely hath life, which the creatures many of them haue, but he is life, which none of the creatures are. Which God is to his children by means of his elementary creatures, is but temporal, but as he is immediate life unto them, it is eternal, and that is in heaven after Iudgement. To be short, I say whatsoever the soul of man doth delight in vpon the earth, take away the sin of the delight, and God is it unto them in an unconceivable and in an unutterable manner, far beyond the delights of ten thousand worlds, if it were possible to enjoy them. To proceed, after Iudgement God shall be all in all to his elect, for when all things shall be subdued unto him, that is Christ, then shall the son also himself be subject unto him that did subdue all things unto him, 
1 Cor 15.28.  that God may be all in all. Oh what a happy and blessed eternal fellowship is there between God and his children, even an eternal cohabitation in heaven, through the lamb Christ Iesus. 
joh. 14.23.  For our saviour saith in John; If any man love me, he will keep my Word, and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him and dwell with him. And again; Whosoever confesseth that Iesus Christ is the son of God, 
1 joh. 4.15.  God dwelleth in him and he in God. And the city of their cohabitation the heavenly jerusalem hath no need of sun or moon to shine in it: 
Rev. 21.23.  for the glory of the Lord God doth light it, and the lamb is the light of it. And again; In the midst of the street of it, and of either side of the river was the three of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and gave fruit every month: and the leaves of the three served to heal the Nations with. 
Rev. 22.2.  vers. 5. And there shall be no night, and they need no Candle, nor light of the sun, for the Lord giveth them light: and they shall reign for evermore. In this life the children of God, even the best of them, could but see Gods back parts, and that by means of his Word and works, but after Iudgement he hath enabled them to look him in the face, even in his majesty and glory; for so the Lord hath promised in the Revelation, in these words; 
Rev 22.4.  And they shall see his face, and his name shall be in their foreheads: and for this do Gods children pray with the Prophet David in these words; 
Psal 4.7.  Lord lift up the light of thy countenance vpon us: and then in the sixteenth psalm with the same Prophet, 
Psal 17.17.  I will behold thy face in righteousness and when I awake I shall be satisfied with thine Image: Now are Gods children come to that estate that they hunger and thirst no more, their holy desires are fully and completely filled with pleasures for evermore; now are they come to their perfection of glory: in not onely everlastingly beholding the glorious face of Gods most infinite and excellent majesty: revel. 22.4. Psal. 17.17. but also in that they shall be most like to Christ in glory, namely, holy, incorruptible, just, honourable, excellent, beautiful, strong, 
1 John 1.3.2. Phil 3.21. 1 Pet. 1.4. Math. 25.34. Rev. 5.10. and 21.7.  mighty and nimble: they are now come perfectly to inherit Gods kingdom, even the new heaven and new earth shall be their inheritance. Thus far I haue discoursed unto you my poor meditations of the glory and blessedness of Gods Saints and Children in the kingdom of heaven after the iudgement.  Philip, 
And what are the effects and fruits that come of this glory and blessedness of Gods children.  George, 
I answer that it is first eternal ioy which is proved by the 16 Psal. vers. 16. in these words, thou wilt show me the path of life, in thy presence is the fullness of ioy, and at thy right hand there is pleasure for evermore: and also the 36. Psal. verse 8. this ioy is eternal, for Christ saith, that our ioy shall no man take from us: Seconly, the second fruit is the perfect service of God, as is plain by these places, Revel. 21. verse 3. and 5. Chap. 12.13 and Chap. 11.17. the manner of this service is to praise and worship God by God himself immediately, for in heaven there is neither Temple, Ceremony, nor Sacrament, for all God himself together with the lamb Christ doth supply, Revel. 21.22. I saw no Temple therein, for the Lord God almighty, and the lamb are the Temple of it: the service shall be daily and perpetual without intermission: for John saith, they are in the presence of the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his Temple: and thus as well as I can, I haue described unto you the invissible Church of God.  Philip, 
Well Seigneour George, I haue heard your discourse of the invissible Church, and by it you haue pleasured me something in passing the time in the wearisomenes of our walking.  George, 
truly Seigneur Phillip, the passing the time in the wearisomnes of our walking is not the end I aimed at in my discourse, but the glorifying of God in your conversion and edification in, and to the truth of God.  Philip, 
For my conversion and edification let that pass, and proceed to that which as I remember you  told me you would prove, that a converted child of God might be assured of his salvation in this life, and that for ever in the life to come, he should remain blessed for ever, if I forget not, you said so.  George, 
I did promise you so, and will endeavour as well as I can to prove it. And although I know that your Church doth oppose it, yet I take it no Article of religion is more clear to be proved then it by the word of God.  Philip, 
Why our Church doth teach that none can be assured of his salvation, but by special revelation as the Apostle Paul was.  George, 
But our Church doth teach that a child of God being converted may know by ordinary faith that he shall be saved.  Philip, 
Come let me hear you prove it, I fear you will do it but slenderly.  George, 
First, I will show you by the word of God, that a Convert may be assured: next the evident testimonies whereby he may in a less or greater measure, be infallibly assured of his salvation: for the first, I allege first this place of Scripture written by the ministry of Peter thus, 
● P●t. ●. 10.  Wherefore brethren give rather diligence to make your calling and election sure: this precept is not to make the elect known and sure to God, for he knows them already, being written in his book of election, but it is to make it sure unto themselves by Gods works as the coherence of the place doth show: the next place is out of Paul to the Corinthians in these words, now we haue received not the spirit of the world, 
● Cor. 2.12.  but the spirit which is of God, that we might know the things that are given us of God, in this place it is evident that what blessings soever the Lord bestoweth on his children whether they be temporal or spiritual, the spirit of God doth make them known to them, and assure them of them as that their Election, effectual vocation, justification, Sanctification Salvation, Faith, Repentance, new Obedience, and whatsoever benefit from Christs whole mediation, accrueth unto them. The next place is out of the 25. psalm, in these words, the secret of the Lord is revealed to them that fear him, and his covenant to give them understanding. 
Psal. 25.13.  In which place it is said that Gods secrets, even the secret of our election, is revealed and made known unto them, as also the covenant of grace, mercy and favours for their better understanding: For what secret is it that he there speaketh of? not the secret he revealeth to other men; but the secret that he worketh in themselves in particular and the covenant of favour and grace that they may understand it in particular: The fourth place is in the Revel. in these words, to him that overcometh will I give to eat of the Manna that is hide, and will give him a white-stone and in the ston a new name written, which no man knoweth, 
Rev. 2. 1●.  saving he that receiveth it: By this Manna is ment the bread of eternal life which is invisible, heavenly and spiritual, which is kept secret with God from before all eternity: and by the white ston and new name is ment a sign and testimony of newness of life, in holiness and righteousness, by putting on the new man, that none do know save the spirit of man which is in himself being inward, thus far haue I proved that a true Christian may be assured of his salvation.  Philip, 
But what are the evident testimonies whereby they do know they are in an estate of grace and favour with God, and consequently that they shall be saved?  George, 
I answer that all the elect not onely may be as I haue proved before, but are indeed made sure of their election, bliss and salvation, and this assurance they haue at the time of their effectual calling, and not before, and this assurance is done many ways: first there are two inward infallible testimonies of our salvation, the first is Gods spirit, the next is our spirit, both are mentioned in the 8. to the Romans, in these words, the same spirit beareth witness with our spirit, that wee are the children of God; 
Rom. 8.16.  the spirit of God beareth witness of our adoption and salvation, by applying to the heart the promises of God touching the remission of sins, and life everlasting by Christ, which are generally propounded by the public ministry of the word: 
Rom. 8.15. Gala. 4.6.  now Gods spirit never departeth from our spirits, but dwelleth& abideth in us, speaketh in us, sheweth for●h his power and prayeth in us: What can be more certain then the testimony and witness of the spirit, which searcheth all things even the deep things of God: 
1 Cor 2.10.  therefore he can most truly make known, and reveal unto Gods children the certainty of their salvation: he will not deceive for he is the spirit of truth, 
John 16.13.  which cannot deceive, nor be deceived: concerning this testimony of Gods spirit it is a mystery to flesh and blood, it is a thing more easy to feel then to express, two special marks there be which will discern between the delution of Satan, who will counterfeit assurance in the hearts of hypocrites, and the true assurance of Gods spirit in the hearts of Gods children: First that assurance which is felt in the heart of Gods children, when their heart is humbled and cast down, and is like the Kingly Prophet Davids heart, who saith, my heart is like wax, it is molten in the midst of my bowels: 
Psal. 12.14.  that assurance no doubt is wrought by the spirit of God: take me a man confounded in himself, with the perplexities of his conscience for sin, as was David, who roared for the grief of his heart, and as Ezechiah, who mourned as a dove for his sin: 
Psal. 38 8. Isa. 3.8.14. job 6.4.  and having as job saith, the terrors of God fighting against him; I say a man comforted in this misery, by assuring him of his salvation, must needs be done by the spirit of God; the devil when men are a sleep in their sin, he useth to bring them to a dead security,& a false assurance of their salvation: but when they come to be wounded in conscience for their sins, then he taketh another course, fearing they should fly to Christ to be healed, and therefore he laboureth to bring them to despair, or to desperate ends, as we may see in cain and Iudas, and many fearful examples in these our dayes, but God who is rich in mercy, doth comfort the hearts of his chosen ones, and gives them by his sp●rit, a blessed assurance of his favour and love in Iesus Christ for their salvation, for God knoweth that the spirit of a man can help his infirmity of his body, but a wounded spirit who can bear; that is, no man can bear it, therefore he strengtheneth them by his power. And thus of the assurance of salvation which Gods children haue by the witness of the spirit of God, when they are humbled in conscience for sin.  Philip. 
What is the second mark whereby we may know that this assurance is wrought by the holy Ghost, and not by the delusion of Satan.  George, 
I answer, that this assurance wrought by Gods spirit is done by the use of the means, which is the Preaching of the Word of God, by attentive hearing Sermons, and the Scriptures red: Meditation of Gods Word, prayer, and the right use of the Sacraments. These are the ordinary means which God useth to bring men to an estate of salvation, and God doth not ordinarily without these means give salvation to any, for the spirit of God doth affect his own course and ordinance in converting souls unto himself: and the devill doth labour to prevent these strait ways of the Lord by drawing to coldness and negligent use of these means. Is a man therefore diligent in giuing attendance at the posts of the laws door? 
Pro. 8.33. Iere. 15.16. Psal. 119.103 Psal. 62 8.  Is Gods word the joy and rejoicing of his heart? Are the promises of God sweet unto his mouth? Is it a delight to him to communicate with the Saints at the Lords Table? Is it a mans love to power out his heart by prayer before God: then that assurance which is wrought by these means, is undoubtedly the assurance of Gods spirit.  Philip, 
And what is meant by our spirit? and how doth our spirit assure us of our salvation?  Geor: 
I answer, by our spirit is not meant any thing which naturally is our own, either of soul or body, concerning the substance of thē which we had by creation, or the created faculties of either of them: but by our spirit is ment a supernatural quality of holinesse, and it i● that new spirit which God promised by ezechiel to put into the bowels: 
Ezech. 11. 1● Psal. 51.10.  and it is that right spirit which David desired God to renew in him: indeed it is our conscience which is sanctified by the blood& spirit of Christ: for conscience is a throughout part of the understanding, and being sanctified it beareth testimony with Gods spirit of the adoption of Gods children. And thus far what is meant by our spirit.  Philip, 
Well, proceed, and how doth our spirit assure us of our salvation?  George, 
I answer, that the evidences of our assurance that arise out of a sanctified spirit, are many, I will draw them to two heads. First, within us that are Gods children there are evident tokens, secondly, outward manifest fruits: our inward tokens do either respect either our sins, or Gods goodness and mercy. In the former, we consider either sins past, or sins present, or sins to come: and for sins past, Gods child is an unfeigned mourner, because they are an offence against the majesty of God; 
2 Cor. 2.11.  and this is called godly sorrow: and for sins present, Gods child is an earnest fighter, for there is a continual combat between the flesh and the spirit: 
Gal. 5.17.  and touching sins to come, Gods child is a continual Watcher of his heart to keep it with all diligence: 
Pro. 4.23.  and Gods child strives to keep himself unspotted of the world; and Gods child doth fly the corruption which is in the world through lust: 
james 1.27. 2 Pet. 1.4.  now for those mercies& goodness of God which concerns their salvation, O how highly do they prise them, basely esteeming all things in respect of them; 
Phil. 3.8.  I count all things dung that I may win Christ, saith Paul: and the souls of the Saints with David long and faint for these mercies of God for their salvation: 
Psal. 63.3.  yea their souls thirst for God: how is it possible but a man must needs conclude an assurance to himself of his blessed estate of grace, having in him such blessed effects of grace. I could allege other inward tokens which as seals do assure a Saint of God of his salvation. Doth any love God, and love to glorify God? then know that that love is an evident token that Gods love is in him; 
1 joh. 4.10.  for saith Saint John, love cometh of God: and yet further saith, herein is that love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us first. 
1 joh. 4.8.  Now Gods love is eternal, for God is love, and love is essential in him, and the influence of his love being  shed abroad in our hearts, 
joh. 1.4.8. Rom. 5.5.  doth reflect back again to love God and all his holy ways, and his children for his sake. The like may be said of knowledge: for our saviour saith; I know my sheep, 
joh. 10.14.  and I am known of mine. Where you see that Christ doth take knowledge of his sheep, first before they do know him to be their Pastor. Away from me ye workers of iniquity, saith the holy Ghost, I know you not, that is, I know you not to be my children; but of the godly he saith, I know them and they aclowledge me: I might allege other inward signs of Gods favour for the assurance of bliss and happiness for ever, but these shall suffice. Now for outward fruits, 
Luke. 3.8.  they are such as John Baptist spake of, fruits worthy amendment of life. We haue two special places which make mention of them, first in Paul to the Galatians, the fruit of the spirit is love, ioy, peace, long suffering, 
Gal. 5.22.  gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, temperance. The other place is in the second Epistle of Peter in these words; join virtue with your faith, and with virtue knowledge, 
2 Pet. 1.5.6.10.  and with knowledge temperance, and with temperance patience, and with patience godliness, and with godliness brotherly kindness, and with brotherly kindness love. If we be diligent in these things to make our calling and election sure, we shall never fall. To conclude, Hath God put a loving childlike fear into thy heart? he covenanted by promise by the ministry of the Prophet jeremy, that he will put his fear into the hearts of his children, that they shall never depart from him: Hath he  shed his love in the heart of any? let him know for his comfort, that whom he loues he loues to the end. Hath the father drawn any to Christ to be saved by his mediation? let him cheer up himself in this, that Christ hath promised that whom the Father hath given him, he will cast none away; and also that Christ hath prayed for him, that his faith fail not. To conclude, hath any received the secret gifts of Gods love and favour? let him solace and comfort himself in this, that the gifts and callings of God are without repentance. And thus I haue shewed and proved unto you, that the children of God may be, yea, and in Gods good time at their effectual calling, are usually in some measure assured of their salvation: and as they do grow in grace, so their assurance groweth more strong.  Philip, 
And haue you ended your discourse of the invisible Church of Christ?  George, 
Yes surely, I haue done my best endeavours to make it known unto you, with the blessed estate thereof, and now for this time we haue ended our conference, God bless it unto us, as also our journey in walking, for we are now come to London.  Philip, 
Well, I haue given you the hearing, but come signior George, at the next tavern for our refreshing wee will drink a pint of white wine, with a Nutmeg and Sugar.  George, 
I am well contented, and then we will appoint the time and place of our next meeting, to confer vpon the visible Church.  Philip, 
I am very loth to haue any further conference with heretics.  George, 
Be not afraid man, I hope it will turn to the best for the glorifying of God, and both our edifications.  Philip, 
Come, here is a tavern, let us go in Drawer show us a room, and bring us a pint of white wine, sugar, and nutmeg, and a cake.  Drawer, 
You shall Sir, Gentlemen here is your wine.  Philip, 
Fill out Drawer, here signior George, I drink to you.  George, 
I thank you signior Philip, and I pray God to bless unto us these his creatures, that his staff and strength in them may nourish our weak bodies for his service.  Philip, 
Come on signior George, I will agree to meet with you, but when shall be the time, and where shall be the place.  George, 
If it please God at Goodmans-fields near Tower-hill vpon thursday next.  Philip, 
I will meet you at the time and place, come Drawer take money for your Wine.  George, 
I pray signior Philip, let me in courtesy pay this small shot, vpon our first acquaintance.  Philip, 
No, I called for it, and I will pay.  George, 
If you will haue it so, I thank you; at our next meeting, I will requited it.  Philip, 
Well signior George, farewell till thursday.  George, 
I desire that we both may prepare ourselves, both by prayer unto God, and holy meditation, that our Conference may be to the praise of God, and our own edification; and so for this time I take my leave.  Philip, 
Well met Seigneour George, I am come according to my promise, about our conference about the visible Church.  George, 
It is well done, I haue heard that it is the opinion of some of your Religion, that it is no sin to break promise with heretics, which you account us to be: and I know the practise of some hath been such with myself.  Philip, 
Come signior George, begin what is the visible Church, and how do you define it.  George, 
I pray God we may begin our conference in his fear, and continue and end it to his glory and praise: and thus I define the visible Church, it is but one, and is a sensible known Company that outwardly make profession, and embrace the true and uncorrupt doctrine, which supernaturally appertains to the very essence of Christianity, and is necessary required in every Christian; now this Church I say, is but one, and yet divided into two parts, the first part before the second part, since the coming of Christ, that part which since the coming of Christ, partly hath, and partly shall hereafter, embrace the Christian Religion, wee term as by a more proper name, the Church of Christ: these two parts of the Church, both of the Iewes and Gentiles, the holy Ghost hath as it were incorporated them into one body, the words are these: that he might reconcile both unto God in one body: 
Ephe. 2.15.16 Ephe. 2.6.  as he saith in the 2. Chapter, that the Gentiles should be inheritors also, and of the same body.  Philip, 
But wherein standeth the very essence of a visible Church, and of a visible Christian.  George, 
It standeth in this, in profession of one Lord, one Faith, and one baptism: therefore the Apostle Peter saith, 
Ephe. 4.5.  Let all the house of Israell know for a certainty, that God hath made him both Lord and Christ; even Iesus whom ye haue crucified: 
Acts 2.3.6. joh. 13.13.  therefore Christians they are not which call not him their Master and Lord: and from hence it came that first at Antioch, and afterwards, throughout the whole world, all that are of the visible Church were called Christians; but our naming of Iesus Christ the Lord, is not enough to prove us Christians, unless we embrace faith in him, the spirit of God saith to the Angel of Pergamus, Thou keepest my name and hast not denied my faith: 
●ev. 2.23.  Though we know and allow of the Christian faith, yet in this we be but entering: entered we are not into the visible Church of Christ before our admittance by the door of baptism, wherefore vpon the confession of Christian faith, the Eunuch was baptized by Philip, 
acts 8.38. acts 22.16. acts 2.41.  Paul by Ananias, and by Peter an huge multitude, which being baptized were received into the number of souls added to the visible Church.  Philip, 
But what be the marks of the visible Church of God whereby a man may know it to be a Church of God.  George, 
The face of the Church visible to our eyes, is seen in the public preaching of the word and the Sacraments administered according to Christs institution, for where Gods word is preached and heard, and the sacraments administered, there we must be assured is the visible Church, for these are sure infaileable marks of the visible Church, for where these are, there is Christ publicly proclaimed to be Lord of our salvation: for by these the Church is gathered in the name of Christ, 
Math. 18.20.  where Christ hath promised his presence.  Philip, 
And wherein consists the communion service, or ministry of the visible Christian Church.  George, 
That wherein they haue communion is the public exercise of such duties as these mentioned in the Apostles acts, which is instruction, breaking of bread, and prayers: but give me leave a little more to speak of the ministry of the visible Church, as also of the invisible; God for the sin of our first parents might haue glorified himself in his just iudgement by condemning all mankind, but for the glorifying himself in his rich mercies, he decreed to pass by his severity of iustice, by preordaining some of the corrupt rascall rout of mankind to eternal salvation, and for the effecting of this, he hath ordained the ministry of the visible Church, so that there is none that do attain to be members of the blessed spiritual, and mystical body of Christ Iesus before spoken of, but by the ministry of the visible Church: he could haue saved his Elect by his immediate power, or by the ministry of Angels; but God in mercy condescending to our weakness, doth offer unto us his heavenly favours in earthen vessels, we come not unto an estate of grace in the mystical body of Christ, but by faith, we come not to faith, but by the Gospel preached, as Paul saith, that faith is by hearing: now Paul writeth, that Christ, that he might fulfil all things gave some Apostles, some Prophets, some Evangelists, and some Pastors, 
Rom. 10.17.  & teachers for the repairing of the Saints, for the work of the ministry, and for the edifying of the body of Christ, till we all meet together in the unity of faith, and that acknowledging of the son of God, unto a perfect man, and to the measure of the age of the fullness of Christ. 
Ephe. 4. 1●.  God was able to make them that be his, perfect in a moment: yet will not haue them grow in strength of faith, and manly age ordinarily; but by the bringing up of the visible Church we see the mean expressed, that unto Pastors is enjoined the preaching of the heavenly truth: wee see also how all( none excepted) are brought unto this one rule, that they should with mildred spirits, and willing to learn, yield themselves to the teachers to that use. Whereupon followeth that they are worthy to perish with famine and pining hunger, that refuse the spiritual meate of their souls reached to them of God, by the hand of his Church. God doth breath faith into his children, but it is by the Instrument of the gospel and word of God: it is clear that none shall haue fellowship with God and Christ that refuse to haue communion with the Church visible: to this end Saint John saith, that I say, 
1 John 1.3.  which wee haue seen, and heard, declare we unto you, to what end did the Apostles declare that which they had heard and seen, the end is, that you may also haue fellowship with us, and is that all? no: and that our fellowship may be with the Father, and with his son Iesus Christ. So that we must first haue fellowship and communion with the Church and Pastors thereof in their ministration, and then we shall haue a blessed communion with the Father and the son.  Philip, 
All this I grant to be true, but that your marks of the Church be somewhat crazed, for the catholic Church doth show other marks whereby the visible Church may be known, which we will hereafter discourse of; but for this time, I pray proceed in your discourse of the visible Church of Christ.  George, 
The marks I haue declared are infallible and certain: and what your marks are, we shall see and consider anon; and now I will proceed as you desire. Those I say again who are marked with this one mark of the outward profession of one Lord, one faith, and one baptism, the visible Church doth aclowledge them for her children: those shee taketh for aliens and strangers in whom these things are not found, and therefore Turkes, Iewes, and infidels, are not of the Church. Others we may not deny to be of the visible Church as long as these be not wanting in them, if they haue these, they are Christians by external profession, though they be vild by conversation. Of the invisible Church, these vile ones, are not, because that body consists of none but true Israelites, true Saints and sons of Abraham, which are indeed the children of God, and yet of the visible Church; these may be and often are in respect of the main parts of their outward profession, who in regard of the inward disposition of their mind, yea of external conversation, yea even of some parts of their very profession, are hateful to God, and to the sounder parts of the visible Church. Our saviour therefore compareth the kingdom of heaven to a Net, whereinto all that cometh neither is, nor seemeth good fish; 
Math. 13.47.  and his Church he compareth to a field, where tares manifestly known and seen by all men do grow intermingled with good corn, and so shall it continue till the consummation of the world. It is clear in divinity that God hath had always a Church visible in the world, even when the most parts thereof were grievously infected with heresy.  Philip, 
Yea, can the visible Church err, wee are taught that it cannot, therefore when you see convenient time declare that further unto me?  George, 
I will God-willing, when time serveth, but now I haue other things to relate unto you of the visible Church. The visible Church, as I haue said, is but one, yet besides the two parts before declared, viz. the one before, the other since Christs coming; that part since Christs coming, which we call the Church of Christ is also divided into parts for your better understanding: I will draw a comparison, the Sea you know is but one, yet hath diuers parts by name, as that part vpon your Coasts wee call the Spanish Sea, and of England the English Sea, vpon France the French Sea, and Ireland the Irish Sea, and so of others; even so the Church, although I say it is but one, yet hath it diuers parts, as for example, the Church of Rome, the Church of Greece, the Church of England, the church of Germany, the Church of Scotland, and so of others, and all these make but one Church; as all those parts of the Sea make but one Sea.  Philip, 
And what is it that uniteth all these parts into one body, whereby these parts make but one visible Church of Christ?  George, 
It is the joint profession and public Preaching of the doctrine of one Lord, one faith, and one baptism; for this one Lord is the onely head of the visible Church, in whom they aclowledge themselves to be united, and in him make but one body: and they all profess and Preach faith in him, and all profess to enter into the visible Church by the door of baptism.  Philip, 
How doth it appear, that the Church being one body is divided into parts?  George, 
By the Scriptures; For Paul writeth to the Church of Rome one of his Epistles, two other Epistles to the Church of Corinth, one to the Church of Gallatia, and another to the Church of Ephesus, and so to the Thessalonians, Philippians, the Colossians, and to the Churches in private houses, and in the Revelation, the angel to the seven Churches of Asia. Thus it appeareth, that the visible Church being one is divided into parts, and so it will be to the end of the world.  Philip, 
If the Church be divided into parts, then it matters not what part a man join with in the service of God?  George, 
Oh yes senior Philip, there is great care to be had with what Church we do join in the worship of God, and what pastors we submit ourselves unto, to be the guide of our souls unto eternal life; for the visible Church though it be but one, and divided into parts, yet is not every part equally sincere; for some is more pure then others, some more corrupt then others, some are so corrupted with devilish doctrine of human inventions and traditions, that a man can scarce discern in it the face of a visible Church of Christ.  Philip, 
How shall a private man, as I am know, which is the pur●st Church to join with in the Worship of God?  George, 
By the purity of doctrine professed and publicly Preached.  Philip, 
Can such simplo men as you and I am judge of the Church, and of the doctrine thereof?  George, 
The persons of their Teachers they may not judge, but they may examine their doctrine, as the Bereans did Paules Preaching, by searching the Scriptures whether those things were so which he Preached; and if they haue the spirit of discerning those things that differ, as the sheep of Christ haue, for our Saviour saith, My sheep hear my voice, and a stranger they will not hear. And S. John saith by Commandement, beleeue not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God. Paul saith, that the spiritual man discerneth all things, that is, all doctrines of faith, so far forth as he is spiritual. And our Saviour saith, You shall know them by their fruits, that is, by their doctrine and life. Thus you see how a child of God may discern between the corrupt and uncorrupt Church.  Philip, 
By this trial, which is in your iudgement the purest Church, and which is the most corrupt?  George, 
Surely I will speak my conscience in the sight of God, though comparisons are disliked of many, yet I think I may justly say, that our Church the Church of England is of the former sort: for the purity of doctrine concerning supernatural truth revealed by the gospel of Christ Iesus, is as purely taught in her as in any Church in the world: therefore I bear so much zeal to the glory of God, and so much charity and love to my countrymen and kindred in the flesh, yea to all the Countreys of our King, united under his government, yea to all strangers that are in them, that I could willingly suffer some great lose to myself, that they might be won to the love of that truth which is professed& publicly Preached by the Pastors of our Church: I mean all such as out of ignorance haue alienated their minds from their own spiritual mother, and haue submitted themselves to those Churches who are much more corrupt and impure.  Philip, 
And which in your iudgement is the most corrupt and impure visible Church?  George, 
Surely I will speak my conscience in the sight of God, as I haue of the pure Church: I take the Church of Rome in these times to be the most corrupt Church that I can read of, and therefore not safe for a Christian to submit to and join with in the service of God; for in it are the people of God taught to serve God by the precepts and traditions of men, in such sort, that the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, cannot shine unto men as it should for their conversion and salvation.  Philip, 
I perceive you are a gross heretic by thus speaking, for the Church of Rome is the mother Church, and out of her there is no salvation, and shee is a most pure Church, as may appear by those marks whereby shee is entitled.  George, 
I am still contented you shall call me heretic: but I say again that after the way which you call heresy will I serve the living God; and for your Church being the mother Church, I cannot so affirm, because if she be a Church, yet shee is but a part of the visible Church, which is the mother of us all; and as for those children of God which are under the government of the Church of Rome, I from my heart roote do pity them, for shee behaveth herself to them more like a cursed stepdame, then like a loving natural mother: their spiritual diet for their souls is a wicked mixture of corrupt human inventions, with the milk of sincere truth, and if they will not eat this corrupt and unwholesome diet, then shee beateth them with faggot and fire; and as for those marks wherewith you would prove the purity of your Church, I hope you will let me hear them anon.  Philip, 
Well senior George, be reconciled to our Church, and do not persist still in your errors.  George, 
I am a member of the visible catholic Church, and that pure part thereof, where God hath placed me I will continue still; for here is the word of eternal life, whether should I then go?  Philip, 
What is the reason you will not be reconciled to our Church, whereas yet you confess it to be in some sort a Church?  George, 
I haue yielded unto you one reason already, viz. because of the corrupt doctrine therein taught; another reason is, because we are commanded the contrary by the Word of God.  Philip, 
I pray let me hear those Scriptures, by which you are detained from uniting yourself to our Church.  George, 
True it is, I will not deny utterly, that under the Papacy, there may be some Church of God, in regard of those main parts of Christian Religion which they constantly still profess, therefore I say of them, as Paul said of Israel, that in one respect they are enemies, but in another, beloved of God; so I say of them, that in respect of those excellent parts of Christian Religion which they profess to beleeue, as these; that there is one God in trinity, that the second person in trinity assumed our nature, that this second person united to our nature is the messiah promised of God, and Prophesied of by Moses and the Prophets; and they beleeue his passion and death, his resurrection and ascension, with other more principles which they hold: but many of them are foully corrupted by their own superstitions and traditions, yet for those main parts of Christian Religion, I suppose that they may be accounted visible Churches in some sort, but in regard of their retaining and maintaining of many other gross corruptions, and vild superstitions: they are not such Churches as a man with safety may join himself unto, especially having discovered the foul abuse of them. What saith God by the Prophet Esay? Oh my people, 
Psa. 3. ●2.  they that led thee, cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths: nay what saith he further both of the temporal and ecclesiastical Rulers; the leaders of the people cause them to err, and they that are lead by them are devoured. 
Isa. 9.16.  Had wee not need therefore to take heed what Pastors we follow, seeing that if they led us into error, wee shall be devoured: Iuda of old was much corrupted with Idolatry, but afterward became more pure, and at that time also was Israell exceedingly corrupted, and therefore God commanded by the ministry of the Prophet Hosea in these words; Though Israell play the harlot, 
Hos. 4. 15.1●.  yet let not Iuda sin. And again he saith, Ephraim is joined to Idols, let him alone; if Rome will not purge herself, must not wee in the Church of England? What saith Paul, 
1 Cor. 10.17.  What agreement hath the Temple of God with Idols: Wherefore come out from amongst them, and separate yourselves, and touch no unclean thing, saith the Lord, and I will receive you. See the practices of old, when the Worship of God was corrupted in substance; 
2 Cro. 11.14.  for when jeroboam had set up Idols in Israell, then the Priests and Levites came to Iuda and jerusalem to serve the Lord. again, when the doctrine of Religion is corrupted in the main substance of it, as S. Paul saith; If any man teach otherwise, and consenteth not unto the wholesome words of our Lord Iesus Christ, 
1 Tim. 6.3. ●.  and to the doctrine which is according to godliness, he is puffed up and knoweth nothing. And in the fift verse, he saith, from such separate yourselves. And Paul did practise this separation with some disciples, 
Acts 19.9.& 28.& 28.  both at Ephesus and at Rome also, therefore fearful is and will be the estate of those men who are bread in the bosom of a puer visible Church, and yet reject the doctrine purely offered unto them from God by the hand of the Church: they live in a Church& amidst means whereby they might come to everlasting bliss and life for ever, which yet because they refuse, the estate of them will be far worse then Turkes and infidels, who enjoy not the like means, therefore I do wish you to look better about you for fear of the danger that will follow.  Philip, 
Well senior George, I haue heard you all this time, but I must tell you that you deserve to be soundly punished for that you haue said.  George, 
You know senior Philip, that it is the manner of galled horses to kick at him that labours to cure them, but I would not haue it be so in you: but wherein haue I deserved to be punished.  Philip, 
Because you haue said that the Church of Rome is the most corrupted and defiled Church in the world, that you can read of, by reason of their maintenance of Idolatry many ways, and their many superstitions and human traditions.  George, 
If I cannot prove that I haue said, then I am worthy to be punished, but if I can prove that I haue said, then I deserve not to be punished, but my proofs I will defer till time serve in our further conference; but in the mean time I desire you senior Philip charitably to conceive of me. I do not speak that that I haue said out of hate to the Church of Rome, save as it is the Church of Antichrist: as appears by the gross corruptions of doctrine therein taught, and that I speak to you senior Philip, I speak in that common charity which ought to be in every Christian, for it is the duty of private men to exhort one another, and to edify one another in the most holy faith: and this we are commanded in holy Writ. I dare not to take vpon me the office of a public Teacher, for none ought to take vpon him that office, but he that is called thereunto as was Aaron: and the Apostle Paul saith, None can Preach except he be sent: and I know in part what destruction hath befallen men, for arrogating and intruding themselves into that sacred office without calling: and if this Conference between you and I were written, and should come abroad into private hands of men, yet were it not a public ministerial teaching, but in manner of a Christian conference between them and me, as it is now between you and me by our mutual discourse: the Scriptures doth record divers worthy acts and sayings of private men; their worthy sayings, and holy speeches, are as a conference with others, continuing to the end of the world,& their godly actions are for Christian mens imitations so long as the world endureth, and therefore if it should come abroad, it were no intrusion vpon any ministerial function, but a Christian instruction for holy edification.  Philip, 
Why man the Church of Rome can prove itself to be a most pure Church by the Scriptures.  George, 
I know they do the best they can to prove their false Worship by the Scriptures, but they do but labour to build up babel with the stones of Sion: but the stones of Sion will not be squared for that wicked building. Satan could allege Scripture to our Saviour Christ: for the devil having tempted our Saviour in the wilderness, when he could not prevail, carried him into the holy city, 
Math. ● 6.  and set him on a pixacle of the Temple, and said unto him, if thou be the son of God cast thyself down. Now for the effecting of this temptation, which was to destroy our Saviour, and in him all the elect of God, he allegeth Scripture: which is the 91. psalm, the 11. and 12. verses, 
Psal. 91.11.  the words are these; He shall give his Angels charge over thee: but see the deceitful cunning of the devil, he left out the latter part of the 11. verse, which is to keep thee in all thy ways, and proceeded to the 12. verse, They shall bear thee in their arms, that thou hurt not thy foot against a ston: so that which he thought would hinder him in his purpose he left out: to keep thee in all thy ways, thought he if I allege that, then will Christ go the right way down the stairs, and not cast himself off the pinnacle( as I would haue him;) so, the Church of Rome, hath as I haue heard, composed a public liturgy or service-Booke, which is commonly called the mass-book, and therein is written the ten moral Commandements, but the second Commandement, which properly forbiddeth idolatry, making of Images, or bowing to them by serving God in, at, or before them: this Commandement is left out and two made of the last, to make up the number. And all this is that the common people should not fear to fall down to worship either their Images themselves, or God in, at, or before them. For I haue heard some say, that they tell the people that Images are Lay-mens books; also a reverend Divine of ours in his public ministry did say, that when their Writers do writ any Commentaries vpon the Scriptures, then in many things they assent unto our doctrine; but when they come to oppose our doctrine by way of controversy, then they are quiter contrary to their own Commentaries: is this faire dealing with holy Scripture? again the Sacrament of the blood of Christ they will not haue the common people to drink thereof for their spiritual thirst, though Christ haue commanded, drink ye all of this. Thus they deal with the Church of God which consists as well of the Late people, as of the clergy, and with the holy ordinances of God wherewith he hath interrested them.  Philip, 
All this you say against the Church of Rome, will but aggravate your punishment, if you fall into their hands.  George, 
I know it well, they haue been a long time the rods of God, by which he hath corrected his children, but this is our comfort, that when he hath done, he will cast the rod into the fire: when they cannot overcome by their deluding arguments and persuasions, the last argument, is hot persecutions, by poison, stabbing, or faggot and fire; but this is our cheering up, and our comfort, that all the afflictions they can lay vpon us, is not worthy of the joys that shall be revealed, this hath been the lot of Gods dear inheritance, that not onely the Infidels and Heathen, but their brethren that profess the service of the true God with them, should be their persecutors: cain sacrificed to the true God, but yet killed his innocent brother Abell: isaac and ishmael were both brought up with one religious father in one religion, but Ismaell flouted in disdain his brother isaac, and along time the Ismaelites that proceeded from him, persecuted Israels issue: and so likewise Esau and his issue the Edomites, did persecute jacob and the Israelites: is it not plain that the Church of Rome, maketh outward profession of the true God and the messiah Christ, and yet for this thousand and more of yeares, hath embrued her hands in infinite numbers of Christian mens blood( which crieth for vengeance as Abels doth:) therefore far be it from me or any good Christian to join and submit to that Church, for if I should, I should thereby allow and approve of the wicked deeds done by it, and be accessary to all the innocent blood by her  shed.  Philip, 
Why signior George, they were heretics, and not worthy to live.  George, 
Not to dispute now, whither all heretics ought so to be dealt with: such is indeed the condition of Rome, that under the name of heretics, they kill the dear servants of God: but admit that I should fall into their hands, I thank God I fear it not, but I fear him that can cast soul and body into hell, and in this fear, I resolve constantly to persist? I count not this mortal life to be at so dear a rate, that I should betray the truth of God for the preservation of it, for our Saviour saith, he that will loose his life for my names sake, shall find it: but if they will needs strike me, let them take the sword of the spirit which is the word of God: but let them rightly use it like good masters of fence, and then I will be their scholar, and prostrate my soul and body, and all the faculties of them, in obedience unto it; but let them not use it, or abuse it rather, to maintain their own false worship and idolatry, for then I shall with the same sword defend myself against them: and if they will rightly use this sword, then I will be contented they shall break my head, for they shall but let out my natural ignorance and error: let them thrust it up to the hilts into my heart, for then they shall but let out the filthy corrupt blood of my original sin and corruption, and incline it more unto Gods testimonies, let them launch my feet and lame them, yet they shall but rightly order the feet of my affections in the way to heaven, in a word, if they shall rightly use this sword in wounding me, they shall make me whole, in killing me they shall make me live for ever: for it is the sword and word of eternal life.  Philip, 
I am now resolved to discourse with you till you are weary; but one thing I think you haue forgot, and that is to prove unto me by scripture that the Church visible may err, and being one and divided into parts, is one part more pure, then another part more corrupt, I think you can hardly prove it by scripture.  George, 
It may be proved, and I will do my best endeavour to prove it by scripture, and any other question wherein you or any of your religion do stand in doubt of, which remain as scruples in their consciences, whereby they are detained from uniting to our Church: I take it to be a truth, that a learned man of ours hath said, that they must needs run into oversights, that cannot or do not rightly distinguish: First between the Church visible, and the Church invisible, and next between the less corrupt or the purer, and the more corrupt or the impurer visible Church, the want of these distinctions causeth much oversight, whatsoever we read of the endless and eternal love, and saving mercy which God sheweth to his Church, the onely pro[er subject thereof, is the mystical body and invisible Church: to this Church the Lord Christ hath thus promised; I give unto them eternal life, and they shall never perish, neither shall any pluck them out of my hand: and as those everlasting promises of blessedness and happiness belong to the invisible and mystical Church; even so when we read in scripture on the other side, of any duty that the Church is bound unto; the Church whom this doth concern, is a sensible known company, which is the visible Church and the parts thereof: vpon the consideration, as maturately as I could of this opinion, that the Church visible cannot err in doctrine, I did rub up and search into my memory what I had learned of our Church, which I will declare unto you: I prove not myself to be learned, for if I did, I should but arrogate unto myself that which I am not, seeing I haue not been brought up in schools of learning, but I give the praise and glory to God the fountain of all good, from whom every good and perfect gift doth proceed: and next to those worthy instruments of his, whereby I haue been taught: and now I will address myself a little to speak to my private Christian brethren, who are a little more learned then the rest, be they either of our Nation or others which proves your Religion: that something they may be edified, if this our conference come to their hands, either by your report or otherwise.  Philip, 
You haue made a flourishing preamble to your learning, I pray let me hear it.  George, 
Surely whatsoever good I haue, or whatsoever good I haue learned, I desire to return the glory and praise thereof, to that Centor and fountain of good and wisdom from whence it flowed unto me: and I think I cannot glorify God better in common Christian charity, then to spend my best meditations and endeavours to bring into the way of truth those poor seduced souls of your religion, who by reason of their blind ignorance, are lead by their seducing guides, rather to the pit of everlasting destruction, then to Iesus Christ the fountain of their everlasting salvation.  Philip, 
Well proceed what more haue you to say.  George, 
This I say, that I do marvel that any truly learned man either in the word or works of God, will be a Papist and of your religion, for that many partes of their doctrine, are against the doctrine revealed to the world, by the word and works of God: the Church is as you know, called a body, and this I would haue you to learn, that all bodies whatsoever consist of two parts, which are the matter and form: Let us a little consider, first, the great body of the earth, and the first creation thereof, it is said in the first of Gene. and the first verse, that in the beginning, 
Gen. 1.1.  God created the heaven and the earth, and the earth was without form and void: now it is not said that the heaven was without form and voided, for God made that perfect in the first moment of time, which it shall be ever after: now the earth was not perfect at the first moment of time, because it was without form and void.  Philip, 
What was it to be without form and void?  George, 
I answer to be without form, is to want the essential constitution of a body, and also to want a real distinction of a body, the truth is, it was no body really and actually, for all bodies real, do bring forth something, and produce something, but the earth which was the first matter of all things, being sometime without form, did produce& bring forth nothing: therefore really and actually it was no perfect body, the very least body that almost we can see, that is a real and actual body, whether it be a natural, a vegetative, or sensitive body, even by the natural induement, as by a law which God hath put in it, will produce some effect, whereby man for knowledge, or for use may be bettered somewhat.  Philip, 
But what manner of body or thing, or what manner of being had this first matter of all things, seeing it was of itself really and actually nothing?  George, 
I answer with the learned, it was something potentially, but nothing actually, it was in power to be all things, itself being as yet nothing really or distinctly.  Philip, 
Can you tell how long this first matter of all things did remain without form and void?  George, 
I take it that it did remain so 12 houres, for darkness was vpon the deep, which verse 5. is called night, and this night was the first part of the first 24 houres, and this I say, I think may be conjectured by that place; now I say again that every creature is that which they are, they are it by their forms: God onely is without matter and form, and therefore he is merely and only most spiritual, take away the form of any creature, and you take away their very essence& being, for the form is it that sustains them, and makes them operate and work according to the several agensies of their nature, for the producing of effects; the main end of their operations and effects, 
Prov. 16.4. Ephe. 1.6.  is the glory of God, for God made all things for his own sake: besides there are special ends for the good of other of Gods creatures, but their more special ends of their operations and effects, are for the good of Gods children, who in Christ haue by Gods mercy the dominion of the creatures restored, which they lost by sin.  Philip, 
If the form doth cherish and sustain the creature, then what did sustain and cherish the first matter of all things, it being with out all form?  George, 
It was preserved at that time by the spirit that moved vpon it, which in stead of a form, did cherish and sustain it as a hen doth her eggs.  Philip, 
But are you able to show how God did put this void Chaos the first matter of all things into form, and how he did make all things out of this first matter being formed?  George, 
I answer that it is not for the feeble brain of man to search into the secret doings of the most High, for that were gross curiosity: yet I will show you, what I haue learned of a learned wri●er of ours, that this first matter being the common subject of contrary forms, it must needs be before them. Gen. 1.2. it is said to be without form, until God put into it the 4 forms of the elements. Now this first matter of all things did fill the lower world, and therefore it is probable that the highest part of this first matter did receive the form of fire, the second of air, the third the form of water, and the last the form of earth, Gen. 1.3. first light, then firmament, vers. 6. afterwards water, vers. 9. and lastly, dry land, the same verse. And thus God by his Word did make the elements out of the first matter.  Philip, 
Can you show me what difference there is in the forms of the elements?  George, 
The 4 elements may be divided into 2. parts, the higher, and hotter, but the fire hath the most active& working form, so that it is most hot and light, therefore in the highest room. The air hath warmness and is active: these two elements make the second and first heaven, and are styled by the holy Ghost, Light and the firmament.  Philip, 
What is the second part you haue divided the elements into?  George, 
The second part is the water and earth, which make one round globe in the inferior world; these were more colder, and therefore less active; the water God made most could and moist, and the earth God made could and dry. And thus I haue shewed you that God made the first matter of all things without form, and then that he did put form into it, and then by the power of his Word made the elements and their forms, by producing them out of the first matter after he had formed it. These things none can know but by divinity; for no human arts can teach a man that the first matter of all things was made of nothing, and that the first matter of all things had a being before these forms were put into it.  Philip, 
And how were all other creatures made and created?  George, 
The other creatures are called Elementaries, because they were made of the four elements. If you ask how they were made, I answer, that God made them by a mixture of the elements, which alters their extremities and bringeth them into a temper, which you may thus conceive: First water, being of a running nature is stayed by the dryness of the earth, secondly, the earth being dry in the highest degree, would dry up and destroy the moisture of the water, if the air should not put into succour his next neighbour. Thirdly, the coldness of the water and earth would wholly extinguish the heat of the air, if the fire should not succour him. All these thus meeting together, do sleken one anothers forces, by means whereof the elementary creatures spring out. Gen. 1. let the earth bring forth. This had been unpossible without heat and moisture, and therefore the other elements joined with the earth in the production. This I say not to bind Gods power to means, for God could haue made the first matter to bring forth creatures when it was without form, as well as when he made it at the first of nothing,  Philip, 
And what doth all this concern the visible Church, which is the thing our Conference principally intendeth?  George, 
This is the drift of that I haue spoken, to bring you the better to know what the Church is, and whereof it doth consist; for as I haue said and proved, that all natural bodies consist in the matter and form: so I say, all Societies and Corporations of men either in the Church or Common-wealth, consist also of matter and form. If a new Corporation in particular be erected in the Common-wealth by the consent of the King, those that seek to be incorporated in that society, do propose some laws and rules to bind them in that association, which being agreed vpon, and their Charter granted, then are they a complete body. Now what is the matter, and what is the form of this body? The matter is the men that be members of this Corporation, and the form is the laws and rules in which they are bound in obedience to that society; now the laws is the life and being of any society, which laws being wholly abrogated, the society is dissolved: but if any part of the laws be changed by being in part repealed or augmented by further ediction, then the society doth not dissolve till they all wholly be abrogated; even as when any natural agent doth by corruption begin to loose the form, it remaines still a body natural till the form be wholly evtinguished by corruption, and then it remaines no more a body but returns to the first principles whereof it was composed.  Philip, 
Well, what is the matter and form of the Church visible on earth?  George, 
I answer, that the matter of the Church is the souls and bodies of men, which are reasonable and voluntary agents; for no creatures can be of this body and society, but such as haue reason and will: and the form of it is the laws and doctrine of salvation revealed in the Word of God: but this is the difference between the laws of the Church, and the laws of civill Societies, that the laws of the Church, I mean those divine laws in which they are principally bound in this society are perfect, and will admit no change, either by utter abrogation, or by part repealing, or augmentation, or by further edition: but the laws of men do admit change, because whatsoever proceedeth from them is imperfect: and I say also laws ecclesiastical which are made for seemly order for the administration of those divine laws, may admit change, because they are made by imperfect men: but for divine laws, they are immediately revealed from God, who hath entrusted the Church with them, not to augment them with further addition, or in part to repeal them( as the Church of Rome like an unfaithful steward doth by her wicked traditions) but to spread them, Preach them, and explicate them, for the gathering the faithful together under the protection of Christ, the onely fountain of their salvation: these laws are essential to the visible Church, and the very form and life of the Church; if they be taken away, the Church looseth the very life of it,& the members thereof return to their first principles, which is either Turkes, or Iewes, or Heathens, or infidels, and therefore I marvel the Church of Rome should deny the outward profession of these laws to be a mark of the visible Church. If a man see a horse in the high way that hath life in him, they will say, he is a horse, but if he haue no life in him, they will say, he was a horse, they will not say, he is a horse: Can they discern the life of a beast, and are they so ignorantly sottish that they cannot discern the life of a visible Church, when it hath life in it: these laws of God are the Word of life, and work some kind of life in the general multitude by a temporary faith, by which they join in communion in the outward worship of the true service of God, but not to serve him in spirit& truth: but this Word and law of God is a word of eternal life to them that worship God in spirit and in truth; for the holy Ghost saith; Many are called, but few are chosen. And our Saviour saith; fear not little flock, it is your Fathers pleasure to give you a kingdom. And the Prophet Isaiah saith; that if the children of Israell were in number as the sand of the Sea, yet shall but a remnant be saved. To these chosen ones, this little flock, to this poor remnant, the Word is a savour of life unto life. These are they that worship God in spirit and in truth, and in these is there a true saving faith wrought. And this I say again, that this must needs be the infallible mark by which the visible Church is, and may be known. What if there be succession of men to teach; what if there be antiquity in succession, and the ceremony of ordination; what if there be unity, and universality, all these be but accessaries, one thing is necessary, namely, the heavenly word and doctrine: all these accessaries when they are proposed to be marks of a visible Church, they may blind the eyes of ignorance, but men of wisdom will search the life of the Church, whether that be in it or no, and if that be not wanting, then they will admit of those marks which your Church saith are marks, but if the Word, Sacraments, and doctrine, which be infallible marks be wanting, then are your marks snares to catch fools, or flaps to scar flies. If a man lay in his bed dead, though he had accessaries to his life, about him, as a good fire to warm him, good apparel to cloth him, good meate to feed him, a good house to harbour him, yet all these would not show him to be a living man, nor would I beleeue him so to be, though all the world should tell me that he is, if I see not his life in him; no more can I beleeue a Church to be a Church, but by the life of doctrine.  Philip, 
Well senior George, you haue discoursed unto me of Gods mighty creation of all things, and that all bodies consist of their matter and form, but you haue not spoken of man and his creation.  George, 
I remember wise Salomon in his proverbs, hath this saying( namely) wisdom is good with an inheritance, vpon this saying, I consider how naturally all men do seek for worldly inheritances, but how few there be that seek for wisdom to enjoy it, and to employ it to the glory of God in the relieving their poor needy Christian brethren, true it is, all my life long the Lord hath hitherto in mercy trained me up in his school of wisdom, which he hath erected in this our kingdom of Great britain, and I can not but bewail my great neglect, in that I haue not been made more wise unto salvation, but what the Lord hath taught me in this his school of wisdom, I desire to impart it unto you for your edification: Now first I say that one principal part of this wisdom, is to know rightly a mans own self, which if he rightly know, he shall the better learn to know God his Creator, and Christ his Redeemer, whom rightly to know is eternal life.  Philip, 
I think you say true, well now you haue done with your preamble, I pray you proceed how did God make man.  George, 
I will if God please begin with mans Creation, then next with his corruption, wherein I will show also the corruption of all creatures, as a consequence of his fall, and so entreat of the corruption and error of the visible church, and therein I will show that one Church is more corrupt then an other in the parts thereof, and lastly, I will show the destruction of all, as consequent of corruption.  Philip, 
Come begin your speech of the Creation of man.  George, 
Our mighty GOD after he had created the heaven and all the Angels, as also the earth and all the creatures, then he procceded to make man; whom he made Lord of all the works of his hands in this lower world.  Philip, 
But I pray you let me ask you a question before you proceed any further, what is the essence of man, and what is his matter and form, for you said that all bodies consist of matter and form?  George, 
I did so, and it is most true that I said, and therefore I answer you, that the matter is the body which is composed of the elements, yet the form of the elements, is not the form of man( as they are of other elementary creatures) but the soul is the form of man, as the form of the elements is in other creatures.  Philip, 
go on I am satisfied.  George, 
I say God created man a reasonable creature, and voluntary agent, consisting of a body and a soul, which soul is immortal; now God by his word commanded the earth and waters to bring forth other creatures, but when he made man; he said, let us, as if he should haue said, man is a more honourable creature, then all the creatures we haue made in all the world, and therefore let us; the Father, the Word, and the Spirit, be advised as by counsel, of his creation, man is as it were a little world: for whatsoever is in other creatures in the world, is in man, be it in natural agents, or vegetative, or sensitive, nay of intelectuall spirits, as Angels, for so is man in respect of his soul.  Philip, 
How did God create man?  George, 
I answer in his own Image and likeness, God said let us make man in our Image, and according to our likeness, it is so called, 
Gen. 1.26. Colo. 3.10.  because he was so furnished in every point by God, not onely in his frame and perfection of his soul and body: but also, by his actions and government of the creatures: Gen. 1.26. Let them rule-over the beasts, and fishe●, and fowles,& so forth. This Image and similitude, was that ability to show forth the wisdom, holiness, and righteousness of God, which did rise from the perfection of his estate, both inward, and in the form of his body and soul, and outwardly in command over other things, so that there could be no let any where, for the performance of his acts, in all obedience whereunto he was made.  Philip, 
But wherein doth the Image of God consist?  George, 
I answer it doth consist in two things, first in conformity of him to Gods righteousness and holiness, as it appeareth in Paul to the Ephesians: Put on the new man, which after God, 
Ephe. 4.2.4. Gen. 1.2.  is created unto righteousness and true holiness, and secondly, in his rule over the creatures: by his conformity with God, we are to understand, that whereby he was made fit both in body and soul to glorify God, in using all faculties and members as instruments of true righteousness and holinesse. Rom. 12.1.& 1 Thes. 5.23. 1 Cor. 6.20. in all these places holinesse and righteousness is equally required both of body and soul.  Philip, 
How was mans body made?  George, 
It was composed and made of the finest and purest dust of the earth, and the rest of the elements, 
Gen. 2.7.  God prepared it with instruments most fitting for the accomplishment of his duty, and comely for his place; this body being made of principles foregoing, was in possibility subject to corruption and destruction, and to return into its former principles. David saith; 
Psal. 139.14.  I will praise thee, for I am fearfully and wonderfully made, in regard of so innumerable and exquisite instruments for use, 
Rom. 6.13.  for the members thereof were weapons of righteousness; and for beauty most comely; for they were naked and not ashamed. 
Gen. 2 25.  And saith David; Lord thou hast crwoned him with worship and glory. 
Psal. 8.5.   Philip, 
And how was his soul created?  George, 
It was created immediately of nothing, and not of principles foregoing, as the body was, and for this cause it never dieth: the manner was that in creating it should be infused, and in infusing it should be created; for God did not create our souls in heaven, and so breath them into our bodies, but inwardly in framing our bodies in breathed our souls; hence it is called the breath of life. And for the excellency thereof God gives man the whole divination of a living soul. 
Gen. 2.7.   Philip, 
What are the faculties with which the soul of man was endued when God immediately created and infused it.  George, 
I answer, his soul was endued with most rare and excellent faculties, whereof some work in and vpon the body by elementary spirits; and others immediately by their own forces. mark the Text, and you shall perceive this to be true, God said to them bring forth fruit and multiple, and fill the earth, this is to be understood of the inferior faculties: subdue the earth, and rule over the fish of the Sea, and over the fowle of heaven, and over every beast that moveth vpon the earth, this is to be understood of the superior faculties of the soul, which are the more excellent: the inferior faculties may be subdued by elementary force, which if they could not, then the body should never die no more then the soul, but we see by daily experience that they may be subdued, because we see men do daily die; but the superior faculties doth subdue all creatures, and themselves are not subject to be subdued.  Philip, 
No, are not reason and will to be subdued? how cometh it to pass, that reason is subdued by reason and force of argument?  George, 
I say that mans reason and will hath no power to command them, but God alone, and if reason be subdued of reason, it is by arguments drawn from the Word of God, so that it is God by his Word that doth subdue reason: they are no better then brute beasts that bury these two noble faculties of the soul, and suffer themselves to be ruled by their inferior faculties, and those inferior to be ruled of brutish natures: blind the mind, and turn the will, and then mere sense will rule vs.  Philip, 
How doth the inferior faculties of the soul work vpon the body, and is the form and life of the body?  George, 
I answer, that the soul doth work in and vpon the body by means of the spirits that are engendered of the more formal elements, whereof the body was composed; and these spirits are as it were the middle betwixt the body and the soul, and therefore conjoin them together. Hence it appeareth that man might die by the extinction of those spirits, and yet Gods blessing and wholesome food might so cherish and relieve them, that man might haue been immortal. We see that natural death is the decay of this bond,& our best health is in the preservation of it. Thus you may perceive that the elementary spirits are not the life of man, but they are the seat of life, and the instruments of the soul, whereby life is wrought in the body, and if these spirits be decayed by corruption, then the body death, and the soul goeth to God that gave it.  Philip, 
Is there any division or distinction of these spirits which conjoin the soul and the body together?  George, 
Yes, for they are either natural, or they are animal.  Philip, 
And what doth the soul work by the natural spirits in the body?  George, 
These natural spirits serve for generation, and for augmentation, or growth and nutrition.  Philip, 
And what the animal spirits?  George, 
I answer, they serve for sense, motion, and affection; it is lamentable to think, how man abuseth himself in all these since the fall.  Philip, 
I pray you discourse further of these superior powers, and most excellent faculties of the soul, reason and will and how they do work?  George, 
Adam in the perfection of his nature being made after the likeness of his Maker, resembleth him also in the manner of his working, to that whatsoever he might haue done, the same he might haue wrought both witting and freely; and this was by those powers of his soul, reason and will, whereby he might be a free beginner, that is, a cause by deliberate counsel of his acts. Adam might eat freely of every three, yea, of the forbidden three, if he would die for it:( which he did to the loss of the salvation of him and his posterity) but in Christ, the Lord in mercy hath recovered it again, so that Adam was made at the first with free-will, for there was nothing either in his soul or body, that might hinder him from the performance of his act.  Philip, 
I pray you also show me further his dominion and Lordship over the creatures, and wherein this Lordship doth consist?  George, 
For his Lordship and dominion, red the 8. psalm, 
Gen. 1.26. Psal. 8.6.  verse the 6. Thou hast made him to haue dominion in the works of thine hands; thou hast put all things under his feet.  Philip, 
And wherein doth this dominion consist?  George, 
I answer, it doth consist in a most free use of all things for the glory of God, his own necessity, and lawful delight; and that, without all let or hindrance of any of his actions; and therefore if he offended in the intemperate use of any of the creatures, it was his own fault; God said to Adam, 
Gen. 3.11.  who  told thee that thou wast naked, hast thou eaten of the three whereof I  told thee thou shouldst not eat? Hence God sheweth plainly, he was guilty of his own wicked action; and therefore he sinned most freely. Now first God gave Adam for himself, and the beasts, meate from the plants and herbs, as likewise the dressing of them. Gen. 1.29.30. Secondly, the bringing ●he creatures to Adam, to see how he would call them. Thirdly, God placed him in the garden of Eden, as in a stately palace planted of God at the East side, which he replenished with all manner of plants both for pleasure and necessity: and thus God did, to the end that man being appointed by God under him, as Lord deputy over all his creatures, he might there keep his Court, and that he might haue matter of employment, 
Gen. 2.15.  God appointed him to keep and till the ground. I might haue further enlarged my discourse of the Creation, but this shall suffice for avoiding of tediousness.  Philip, 
Now God having ended his work of Creation, by giving the creatures a being, and a law of operation by their matter and form, doth he so leave them?  George, 
No; He hath not onely created them, but he also preserveth them, and continueth them being in their essences, and forces of operations, both universal and singular, and by his providence provideth for them to the least circumstance: 
Math. 10.29.  Psal. 104.24. in wisdom hast thou made them all, and therefore by the same wisdom doth he provide for them, verse 27. they all wait vpon him, and he giveth them food in due season: all, both creation, preservation, and administration, are ascribed to the wisdom, power, and goodness, and mercy of God. In the 104. psalm, from 2. verse to the 10. of Gods creation, from the 10. to the 27. of Gods administration, and from thence, of his preservation. And thus in brief of Gods creation and providence.  Philip, 
Now I pray you proceed, and let me according to your promise hear your iudgement and reading of mans fall and corruption.  George, 
This I say first, that though Adam was made in the likeness and Image of his Maker, which stood in holinesse and righteousness, and in the dominion and rule over the creatures, yet this perfection was not immutable, but might be changeable by force of temptation, as the event did declare. Now Adam having free will, lost the purity of his created nature, himself being a cause, by his free receiving the temptation, and hearkening thereunto, contrary to the Commandement of God, when he might haue resisted the same: the Commandement was this; And the Lord God commanded the man, 
Gen. 2.16.17.  saying, thou shalt eat freely of every three of the garden: Then followeth the prohibition; but of the three of knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: and the curse that should follow his eating for in the day that thou eatest thereof, thou shalt die the death.  Philip, 
How was Adams fall effected?  George, 
The principal causes, was the devil, and Adams yielding to the temptation.  Philip, 
And what were the instrumental causes?  George, 
The Serpent and the Woman: the devil in the Serpent said to the Woman, Gen. 3.1. Yea hath God indeed said, ye shall not eat of every three of the garden, &c. but God knoweth that when you shall eat thereof, you shall be as Gods, knowing both good and evil. Hence our first parents judged the Law their hindrance, and to keep them from an inestimable good, took and did eat the forbidden fruit; the Serpent was an Instrument thus: The devil abusing the Serpents subtlety, used him as a means of seducing the Woman: the Woman was an instrument, as being seduced of the devil by the Serpent; The Serpent beguiled eve through his subtlety. 
2 Cor. 11.3.   Philip, 
What are the effects of Adams fall?  George, 
I answer, the effects are three; 1. blame, 2. guilt, 3. punishment, Rom. 5.12. By one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin, and so death went over all men, forasmuch as all men haue sinned. All men sinned in regard of blame: death entered in regard of guilt: and death went over all as a punishment.  Philip, 
What is meant by blame, by guilt, and by punishment?  George, 
Blame is Gods just censure of sin. Gen. 3.14. Because thou hast done this, thou art accursed. sin censured, is blame worthy, and guilt is, whereby they are tied to undergo the punishment. Gen. 2.17. in the day thou eatest thereof thou shalt die the death; and the punishment is the just anger of God vpon them. Rom. 2.5. By hardness of heart thou heapest vpon thyself wrath against the day of wrath, and of the declaration, &c. Verse. 8.9. Iudgement and wrath, tribulation and anguish, shall be vpon every one that doth evil.  Philip, 
How doth God show himself glorious in Adams apostasy, and in him the fall of all men?  George, 
It doth appear unto us that he doth glorify himself in 3 attributes, that is to say, his holiness, his justice, and his mercy.  Philip, 
Describe to me his holinesse.  George, 
His holinesse is whereby he being pure and free from all sin, cannot away with any sin. Psal. 5.4. Thou art a God that lovest no iniquity, neither shall any evil dwell with thee.  Philip, 
And what is his Iustice?  George, 
His justice is, whereby he being most just in himself, cannot but execute justice: as in well doing to them that do well, so in inflicting punishment on them that do evil. Rom. 2.6.7.8.9.10. 
Rom. 2 5.6.7.8.9.10.  Gods just judgement is to reward every man according to his works; to them that continue in well-doing, glory, honour, immortality, peace, and eternal life: but to the rest, indignation, wrath, tribulation, and anguish. It is called, as it seems to burn more remissly against sin, anger: as more sharply, wrath: and as God doth give sentence, it is called Iudgement, and executing the same, Revenge: Rom. 2.8. Anger and wrath, verse the 5. just Iudgement: 2 Thess. 1.8. In flaming fire to render vengeance: God must needs hate sin, and in his justice punish it, because it doth oppose the justice of God, which is God himself; and we see in nature, how mainly every thing doth fight against that, which doth oppose& endeavour to overthrow the being of another; as fire to oppose water, and water fire.  Philip, 
And what is his mercy?  George, 
His mercy is whereby he useth compassion also towards his creatures offending. Gen. 6.3. 
Gen. 6.3.  My spirit shall not always strive with man, because he is but flesh. Gen 8.21. I will henceforth curse the ground no more for mans cause, for the imaginations of his heart, are evil even from his youth: Psal. 78.38.39. He forgave their iniquities, called back his anger, did not stir up all his wrath, for he remembered they were but flesh, a wind passing and cometh not again; first therefore Gods mercy appears in this, that he did never forsake any man, till he first forsook God, as appeareth in the examples of cain, Saul, Achitophel and Iudas: secondly, never any sought for mercy, but found it, were his sins never so grievous, and many that sought it not, yet haue found it; as the woman of Samaria, the widow of Naim, and the sick man at the pool, of Bethesda. Thirdly, God was much more displeased with cain, for despairing of his mercy, then for murdering his brother; and with Iudas for hanging himself, then for betraying his master, in that they would make the sins of mortal men, greater then the infinite mercy of the eternal God, or as if they could be more sinful then God is merciful.  Philip, 
Of what kinds are his mercy?  George, 
There be two kinds of his mercy, the one is his bountifulness, the other is his gentleness, Rom. 2.4. despisest thou the riches of his bountifullnes patience and long suffering.  Philip, 
And what is his gentleness?  George, 
His gentleness, is whereby he in his Iustice remembreth mercy, Psal. 103.8.9. The Lord is full of compassion and mercy, flow to anger, and of great kindness, he will not always chide, neither keep his anger for ever; this doth appear in his patience and long suffering. Rom. 2.4.  Philip, 
What is his patience?  George, 
His patience is, whereby he most gently suffereth sinners, and deferreth punishment. Psal. 50.21. these things thou didst, and I held my tongue: that is patiently suffering thy sins for a time to go unpunished.  Philip, 
What is his long suffering?  George, 
His long sufferance is, whereby he long expecteth rerepentance, Lament. 3.22. It is the Lords mercy, that wee are not consumed, because his compassions fail not: Eccle. 8.11. Because sentence is not executed speedi●y: therefore men are fully set to do evil: when on the contrary, they ought to be moved to forsake their sins, Rom. 2.4.  Philip, 
And what is his bountifulness?  George, 
His bountifulness is, whereby he being rich in goodness, poureth forth his good gifts vpon his sinful creatures notwithstanding their sins, Mat. 5.45. Your heavenly Father maketh his sun to arise on the evil, and on the good: and sendeth rain on the just, and unjust. Thus far I haue shewed you, that the very fall of Adam. God ordered it to his own glory: first of his holiness, which being most absolutely pure, and without the least stain of sin, being opposite to his holiness, could not but perfectly hate sin secondly, his iustice, which must needs punish sin: thirdly, his mercy, whereby he useth compassion also towards his creatures offending.  Philip, 
Now I pray you show me vpon whom the punishment was inflicted?  George, 
The persons vpon whom the punishment was inflicted, was first the devil, next the Serpent, whose subtlety he used for the deceiving the woman, and then the woman, whom being deceived, 
Gen. 3.14.15.  he used as an instrument to deceive man.  Philip, 
What was the punishment inflicted vpon the devil?  George, 
The punishment inflicted vpon the devil, was first the crushing of his head: that is the bringing to nought his wicked devise against man, and Gods counsel: by the seed of the woman, that is, Christ, whose heel he bruised, that is, his humiliation, Gen. 3.14. Secondly, the hardening of Satan and his associates in their sins, that they cannot repent and find mercy, Gen. 3.15. I will put enmity, between thy seed and the womans: It is well known that hostility and enmity do ever increase hatred, and hatred of God impenitency, psalm 50.17. Wicked and impenitent sinners hate to be reformed: The third punishment, is their banishment from heaven, into the elements; and reservation of them to Iudgement and hell fire, 2. Pet. 2.4. God spared not the Angels that sinned, but cast them down into hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be kept unto damnation, Iude verse 5. They are reserved in everlasting chains under darkness, unto the iudgement of the great day.  Philip, 
And what was the punishment vpon the Instruments?  George, 
I answer first vpon the Serpent, a curse above all the beasts of the field, 2. enmity betwixt him and the woman, 3. A sensible feeling of pain in his going vpon his belly, 4. His eating of dust.  Philip, 
And what was the punishment of the woman?  George, 
The punishment of the woman was first her enforced subiection to her husband, 2. 
Gen. 3. 14.1●  Her manifold griefs in conception and going with child, and her pain in traveiling, these punishments shee had, besides the punishments she hath in common with man.  Philp, 
And what are the punishments of man?  George, 
I answer that the punishment vpon Adam, and consequently vpon all mankind, is sin, and death. Rom. 5.12. as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin, and so death went over all men, for as much as all men haue sinned.  Philip, 
I pray how can God inflict sin as a punishment?  George, 
I answer, that it is as an effect of divine justice by order of consequence, that where such an offence went before, such an evil should follow, to make the party feel the smart of it: so original and actual sin follow Adams first sin, as justly inflicted vpon Adam. The order is Gods, which makes it bitter and afflictiue to the soul and conscience. original sin follows the first at the very heels; and by it we feel wonderful misery. We see daily, how God punisheth pride by envy: envy is not of God, but the order and afflictiue power is to be given to divine justice. 2 of Sam. 16.10. Shimei his cursing of David is imputed to Gods Commandement: not as outwardly or inwardly filling his heart with malice, but at this time sending it for Davids further humiliation. job. 1.21. job robbed by wicked men, confessed God to be the taker, because he knew, God ordered it for his trial and patience. The Iewes crucify Christ, 
Acts. 2. 25●  and yet that was the determinate counsel of God; so then the order disposing, that original sin shall follow Adams transgression, and make it bitter unto us, is of God: I mean, as far as it is of the nature of punishment, it is of God: but when it comes to be considered simply as a sin, so it is not of God, but of the creature, as was formerly declared.  Philip, 
What sins doth God inflict as punishments?  George, 
The sins inflicted are both original and actual; from this bitter roote of our first transgression, sprung all our misery, Rom 5.19. One mans disobedience hath made many sinners, both originally and actually.  Philip, 
What is original sin?  George, 
original sin is, as the learned say, an exorbitation or misorder of the whole man, both inward in himself, and outward in the government of the creatures. Psal. 51.5. I was born in iniquity. Rom. 7 24 a body of death. H●b. 12.1. a sin that hangeth so fast on, a closing sin, that compasseth us about. Gen. 5.6.& 8.21 the frame of mans heart is evil continually.  Philip, 
Hath not man free will?  George, 
No; his reason and will are out of order and exorbitant, and therefore he hath no freedom of will to any good, that may be pleasing to God, but wholly unto evil. joh. 8.34.35.36. Servants of sin must be no freemen, but such are all, until Christ restore them. Rom. 3.11. None that understandeth or seeketh God. Vers. 12. they are all gone out of the way, made altogether unprofitable; not one that doth good, no not one: by nature we haue neither mind, will, nor endeavour to ought that is good.  Philip, 
What is actual sin?  George, 
actual sin is, the continual jarring of man vpon outward objects, by reason of his natural or original misorder; as for example, an Instrument out of tune, is dissonant and unfitting in all harmony. Rom. 3.13.14.15.16.17.18. throat, tongue, feet, ways, and all, are without the fear of the Lord. Rom. 1.29.30. full of unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, malitiousnes, with many other actual sins there recited. Psal. 50.16.17. crimes against the first Table in a form of Religion, but a denial of the power thereof. Psal. 5.18.19.20. and crimes against the second Table, speeches and actions, as thievery, adul●ery wicked and deceitful words, &c. And in the mind no good. Psal. 10.4. he is wickedly secure. Psal. 18.11.13. proud. Revel. 18.7. Luk. 18.11.12. he perceiveth not the things of the word and spirit, for they are foolishness unto him. 1 Cor. 2.14. wicked thoughts and speeches of them that fear God. Mat. 12.24. Psal. 74.8. no care of death, or hell, or judgement. Isa. 18.15. Luk. 12.19.45. of the will and affections, proud, wicked, and vile motions, inclinations, and desires. Galat. 5 17. of the members, innumerable wretched actions. And thus I haue described unto you, the estate and condition of all men by nature, by reason of the first punishment God laid vpon Adam, and his posterity, for his first offence, wherein you may perceive, that there is little hope, for any man to expect, an impossibility of the visible Church not to err or be corrupted, seeing that all men are thus corrupted and out of order, not onely in their will and affections, but also in their reason itself: therefore the Lord in mercy considering all mens natural exorbitation, hath commended to his Church his sacred Oracles of his Word, as a rule whereto they must take heed, for their enlightening and guiding in the way to heaven.  Philip, 
Declare unto me the second punishment that God laid vpon Adam and his posterity for his offence.  George, 
The second punishment is death, which death is a deprivation of life, and thereby man is subject to much misery. Rom. 6.33. The wages of sin is death. Gen. 2.17. in the day thou eatest thereof, thou shalt die the death.  Philip, 
How many kindes of death be there?  George, 
There be two kinds of death, the first and the second.  Philip, 
Declare the first death.  George, 
The first death is, subiection to the miseries of this world, the beginning hereof, is the subiection to the miseries that come by the loss of the good things of the body, as of health, whence cometh sickness and deformity: sense of nakedness, weariness, subiection to dangers, also subiection to the miseries, that come by the loss of external things, as of friends and friendship: honor, rule over the creatures, and of things necessary for the maintenance of life.  Philip, 
When is the first death perfected?  George, 
I answer, that the perfection and end thereof is, the going out of the spirits, whereby the soul departeth out of the body, and the body afterward is resolved into the elements.  Philip, 
And what is the second death?  George, 
The second death is the subiection of man to the misery of the world to come, the beginning whereof is in this life as forerunners thereof, the emptiness of the good things of the mind, as first ignorance of God; secondly, terror of conscience; thirdly, flying and hiding himself from the presence of God, or else a deep security or senslesnes of misery, despairs, and a fearful expectation of judgements.  Philip, 
And what is the perfection of the second death?  George, 
The perfection of the second death is an ejection eternally from the face of God, and a casting of the soul immediately after the first death into hell, and a reservation of the body in the grave, as in a dungeon against the day of judgement, when after the resurrection both soul and body shall be cast thither.  Philip, 
And is this an end of your discourse of Adams punishment for his first transgression?  George, 
I am desirous for your further understanding, to show you that God so hated the sin of Adam, that he did not spare to curse the whole course of nature for his sake, even the elements, and also the elementary creatures, which are composed of their mixture: the words are these; Cursed is the earth for thy sake. Thus God made the creatures which were obedient servants, to be as it were rebellious enemies to Adam and his posterity.  Philip, 
Why the earth was not guilty of any sin, and therefore show me, how in Iustice God did curse it, seeing it was not guilty of the crime?  George, 
I answer, true it is, that no creatures are guilty of the crime of sin, but such as haue reason and will, therefore the earth and all the creatures produced out of it as out of their first matter, being made for Gods glory and mans sake, are cursed for mans sin, that he might be cursed and punished not onely in his own person and posterity, but as it were also punished in his goods.  Philip, 
But wherein doth this curse of God vpon the creatures consist, seeing all things remain as they were created at the first?  George, 
It doth consist in this, that they haue their blessing and goodness of creation, weakened and are now subject to corruption and vanity; 
Rom. 8.19.20 21.22.23.  and therefore are not now so perfect as at their first creation: under which corruption and vanity they do groan, and the whole course of nature in this world doth long and wait when the sons of God shall be revealed, that they may be delivered from the bondage of their corruption; under which by divine malediction in justice to mans sin they are in bondage. Nay, I say, that the very creatures haue and do now groan and repined whensoever they are abused to the satisfying of wicked sinners voluptuous desires: Oh how much more should vild men groan and weep for their natural corruption by sin, seeing they haue brought such a misery vpon all the world of Gods creatures by their sins.  Philip, 
But you said even now, that the creatures which were at the first obedient servants to man, are now become rebellious enemies to him. I pray show me wherein their rebellion doth consist, seeing that they do to this day yield their service, whereby the life of man is continued and preserved?  George, 
To this your question, I answer, that the elements themselves, of which the bodies of men and all other creatures are composed, do continually rebel against man, for mans rebellion against God by his sin. As for example; 
Psal. 19.5.  the sun who like a mighty man rejoiceth to run his race, and nothing is hide from the heat thereof, and God having contracted heat and light into that body, to give heat and light to the creatures vpon the earth: This sun, I say, is by his intemperate heat a continual vexation to some Inhabitants of the earth, as in India, and other Southern Countries is well known to our countrymen traveiling into those parts: Besides we often who live in these more temperate Climates, by the violent heat thereof, haue the earth so dried that the grass is burnt up, and fruits so pined, even as a poor child at the withered breasts of the mother, and also the element of water which is could in the highest degree, and of a gathering nature, is a continual vexation unto some other parts of the earth by extreme frosts and inundations, as in the more Northern Countries it is well known: and also the element of earth, a continual vexation by barrenness in some part of it, as we see by experience in our own country, that some part thereof is by nature more barren then others: We see also by experience, that the element of air is in some part of the world so corrupt, that it is also a continual affliction to the inhabitants: and strangers coming to live there, out of a more pure and fresh air, are soon corrupted with agues, rheums, with fluxes, and many other diseases: now I say again, that these 4. elements, fire, air, water, and earth, being the mothers of all elementary creatures, do nourish all elementary creatures, as mothers do their children with their milk, and that according to the agensie of their composed natures; as the fire to yield unto them heat and light; the water coldness and moisture; the air warmth and breath; and the earth dryness and coldness. Now it is clear by experience, that all elementary creatures, haue their dependence for preservation, vpon Gods providence, who useth as subordinate and second causes the elements, who by their influence and operations for the continuance, preservation, fertility, and augmentation of the elementaries, according to their natural endowments: yet so, that they the mother elements do not yield to the elementary creatures such a perfect influence for their good, as they did at the first creation. And this cometh as I haue before shewed, by Gods divine malediction in justice for mans sin.  Philip, 
Well, let me hear of the corruption of other creatures, which you call Elementaries.  George; 
The elementary creatures are of two sorts, that is to say, such as are of an imperfect, and also such as are of a perfect mixture: of the former, we haue little mention in the history of the Creation, but of the latter, in the first of Genesis, where the history of the Creation is set down, we haue given us many examples.  Philip, 
What be the creatures of an imperfect mixture?  George, 
They be smoky and vaporous bodies, which be exhaled by the fire out of the earth and water, and suspended in the air, or enclosed in the pores and holes of the earth, psalm 148.4. Clouds, verse 8. Fire, and hail, snow and vapours, storm winds &c. which execute his word, they all must praise the Lord, because he created them: these are called Meteours, because they hang aloft in the air; of these, the less is to be said in divinity, because they rather come by generation, then by creation; yet God doth wonderfully express his majesty in these imperfect bodies; amongst these Meteors and vaporous bodies, are included lightnings and streams of fire in the elementary heavens, the operations whereof do set on fire, Churches, Houses, Trees, and sometimes killeth men and beasts, and in these are included earthquakes, whirlwinds, blazing stars, and fading comets, by all which, the Lord doth astonish, affright and show himself terrible to the earth, by all which, we may admire the power of his hands, but never come to knowledge of his word.  Philip, 
Well let me hear somewhat, of the corruption of the elementary creatures that followed vpon Gods cursing of the earth, the first matter of them I mean of those of a perfect mixture.  George, 
I answer as before, that for mans sin, the blessing and goodness of their creation is weakened, and they are all subject to corruption and vanity, now all the creatures in some sort, haue some resemblance with God in their goodness, as I shewed before. Now the first degree of goodness is, that general perfection, which all things do seek, by desiring the continuing of their essence, and being, now among the creatures; some are more constant, and some less constant, yet all things covet as much as may be, to be like unto God in being, even those inconstant natures, though they cannot obtain it personally, do seek it an otherway, by offspring and propagation. There is an other degree of goodness, which each thing coveteth by affecting resemblance with God in the constancy of their operations, according to the agency of their kinds, the immutability of God they strive unto, by working alway, or for the most part, after one manner or tenor: now I say, although Gods creatures are innumerable, yet they may all be brought into these 4. kinds, as for example, some be 1. natural, some 2. vegetative, some 3. sensitive, and some 4. intellectual or rational; now all these as I haue said, consist in their matter and form, which form is the law of working, as I take it in all their several kinds, now I do not desire to detract the least thing from the God of glory, whom I serve in his son Christ, for he it is, which is the God of nature, and by his providence hath the administration of all things, and nature in her several kinds, is but his instrument, whether it be for the glory of his mercy or iustice, and therefore, I answer to your question, this their form wherein is contained their law of working is weakened and diminished, for all creatures observe a certain rule or law of working, which law or rule God hath instituted in their several natures to guide them in their working and this I say again that their law of working is weakened, whereby they do not so perfectly work for the preservation of their own kind in special, neither for the good of other creatures, which haue dependences on them for the goodness of their working.  Philip, 
I pray how are they weakened in the law of their working, for their own preservation, and the good of others which haue dependence of them, for the goodness of their working?  George, 
I answer that their weakness of working, cometh by their vanity and corruption, whereunto they are subject by reason of Gods curse vpon them for mans sin, and therefore they do hold always their equal temper and proportion, with which God did at their first creation endue them, and hence it is that they are often in distemper, either by excess, or by defect; for excess and defect are opposite to true proportion. I remember a learned man of ours saith, that nature is nothing else, but Gods instrument, and he saith, that Dionisious in the course of nature, perceiving some sudden disturbance, cried out that God doth either suffer impediment, and is by a greater then himself hindered, or if that be impossible, then hath he determined to make a present dissolution of the world, for this corruption of nature, whose law of working beginning to cease, doth presuppose, or is a forerunner of destruction, of which you shall hear hereafter: now I say, what a wonderful punishment is it to man for his sin, that the creatures elementary being perfect in their laws of working in their first creation, are now by Gods just iudgement corrupted by excess or defect of working, by which the earth doth bring forth thistles& thorns, cockle and darnel, 
Gen. 3. ●●  tares, and many other hurtful plants and herbs, all which I take it the earth did bring them forth before the fall, but then they were not hurtful annoyances, because man was then in innocency: but after the fall of man, God made them hurtful annoyances for mans sin, and caused the earth in an excessive manner to produce them, whereby they do suck the fatness of the earth from such other herbs and plants and fruits as are more necessary for mans nourishment, both of health, and strength, and life. Besides, God for mans sin doth sand Canker worms, caterpillars, grasshoppers, and many kindes of Mise, which eat the fruits, and corn, and grain. Besides, He maketh a fruitful land barren, for the iniquity of them that dwell therein.  Philip, 
And what say you of elementary creatures sensitive, and of their corruption?  George, 
Our great God after he had finished the work of his creation, appointed unto man his food in these words; 
Gen. 1.29.  And God said, behold I haue given unto you every herb bearing seed which is vpon all the earth; and every three wherein is the fruit of a three bearing seed, that shall be to you for meate. Now it is the Word of God that sanctifieth, and is the staff and strength of bread, whereby it nourisheth. How innumerable were the fruits and herbs which God sanctified for mans use, as wheat, barley, milk, rice, sugar, honey, rye, with many such; and the fruits of trees, as apple, pears, dates, figs, and innumerable more; and of herbs innumerable more. And the Lord further to express his bounty, did give man liberty to eat of fish, fowle, and flesh, and this further grant was after man had sinned, and after God had destroyed almost the whole world of sinners, saving eight persons. What was there in man to move him to to this bounty, sure nothing; for the Lord saith, 
Gen. 8.21.  the imaginations of mans heart is evil, even from his youth. Nay, the Lord, for all man was so sinful and wretched a creature, did renew his dominion over the works of his hands, as is expressed in these words; 
Gen 9.2.3.  The fear of you and the dread of you shall be vpon every beast of the earth, and vpon every fowle of the heaven, and vpon all that moveth vpon the earth, and vpon all fishes of the Sea, into your hands are they delivered, every thing that moveth and liveth shall be meate for you, as the herb haue I given you all things. Now this dominion and rule of the creatures, which God gave after the flood of Noah, was not so perfect as their dominion which they had, in the time of innocency: for the curse which was laid vpon them at the first for mans sin, doth still cleave unto them, whereby they are subject to vanity and corruption; as we may see in the sensitive creatures by experience, their law of working was not to destroy and devour each other, and to make a pray of each other for their meate and food, as we see the great beasts, fowls, and fishes do, to satisfy their hunger vpon the smaller; for he appointed them their food otherway, as appeareth in Genesis 1.30. in these words; Likewise to every beast of the earth, and to every foul of the heaven, and to every thing that moveth vpon the earth, which hath life in itself, every green herb shall be for meate, and it was so. Besides, it is said in Genesis the 6. that the earth was corrupt before the Lord, for the earth was filled with cruelty; for beasts and fowls do cruelly oppose each other by fighting& tearing each other, as we see by dogs how they do cruelly tear with their teeth one another, and cocks with fighting kill one another; as we see it also with other beasts and fowls, how cruelly they oppose each other; and all this came by man, who cruelly murdered himself by his sin; and man and woman how cruel they are each to other, is too lamentable to speak of. Beasts before the fall of man did dwell together, 
●sa. 11.4.5.  and none did molest or hurt one another, but so soon as man had rebelled against the Lord, and that themselves were subject unto vanity, they began to oppress and devour one another. But is this all? No, they are corrupted in their law of subiection and obedience in their service unto man; For the ravening beasts, as lions, bears, Tigers, wolves, and Dogs, with many more, will tear in pieces, devour, and eat the flesh of man; nay, all the host of Gods creatures, are ready prest to execute the Lords justice against man, for his rebellion by sin against God: a mans horse will strike his master, and will falter in his law of strength by stumbling, to the laming or killing of his master: a mans dog will bite his master; and his Cow will gore him, even sometimes to death. What should I say? it is marvel that our morsels we eat, do not suffocate and stop our breath; that our cloths do not cleave to our skin, and tear it off our back; that our houses fall not on our heads, and crush us in pieces; and the ground we tread on, swallows us not up quick; the very law of the creatures, is so turned against man, for his subjecting them to vanity and corruption, by his sin against God their Creator, that the Lord is often fain by miracle to stay their rages: as to quench the violence of devouring fire in the Oven, into the which the three servants of God were cast by nabuchadnezzar; and to stop the mouths of lions, into whose dens Daniel was cast: our Saviour stayed the waves of the Sea, and stilled the tempestuous storms and winds. Nay, I think I may safely say, that the Lord doth continually work miraculously for us, in that he stayeth the rage of all the creatures, from working our present destruction, wee having by our sins brought them to vanity and corruption, but this our omnipotent God doth, to glorify himself in his rich goodness& mercy; for as it is in the psalm, 
Psal. 104.  the earth is full of the goodness of the Lord; And this goodness the Lord doth still continue to invite& draw us unto himself, the essence and fountain of all good; and those that submit their wills to be drawn unto, and to seek him, the goodness of the creatures, are as pledges of his love; but those that will not be invited to seek him, the goodness of the creatures, will but fat them up against the great day of slaughter. And thus far of the corruption of the sensitive elementaries, and of the corruption of the whole world by mans sin.  Philip, 
You haue made a long digression from our intended conference of the visible Church.  George, 
I haue so, but I hope my digression hath tended to edification, and to draw you along to the better understanding and consideration of the corruption of the visible Church.  Philip, 
What corruption do you mean? I know all men are corrupted with sin, and so the visible Church is corrupted in that it consisteth of sinful members.  George, 
Nay, I would haue you to know, that the visible Church in the several parts of it, may be and often is corrupted with error, and even heresy too.  Philip, 
I deny that, for our Church doth not err, and it holdeth that it cannot err in matter of faith.  George, 
I haue  told you, that I would prove, that the visible Church may and often hath erred in matters of faith.  Philip, 
Well, let me hear what you can say, to prove that which you haue said, which I know you cannot do.  George, 
Thus I begin. All sin whatsoever proceedeth either from the error of judgement, or from the peruersnes of will, now I would entreat you, to consider with me a little what I haue formerly said and proved. I haue shewed you, that all bodies both natural, vegetative, sensitive, rational, and collectiue bodies, either civill or ecclesiastical, which is the Church visible, that they all consist of matter and form. I haue shewed you also of man, how he is corrupted in his law of reason, and will, by original sin. I haue also shewed you that for mans sin the whole course of nature, even all the creatures are corrupted in the law of their working, and subject unto vanity in justice for mans sin. It now remaineth that I prove unto you, that the visible Church in her form and law of working may be corrupted: it is plain by your own acknowledgement, that all men are corrupted with sin, your own learned men do freely grant, that albeit the Pope, as they say, cannot teach heresy, nor propound error; he may notwithstanding himself worship Idols; think amiss concerning matters of faith; yea, give himself unto acts diabolical, even being Pope, and yet they hold him head and principal ruler of the visible Church; but this is our comfort, we aclowledge no such rotten and corrupted head, but the head whom we do aclowledge, is a most holy, most wise, and uncorrupted head, which head is Christ Iesus our Saviour: but seeing the head and members are corrupt, as you aclowledge, and may be subject unto errors; hence it is, that the visible Church may err, for that which is true in every member of the Church, is also true in the whole: because men in this life are enlightened but in part, and therefore still remain subject to blindness of mind, and ignorance, and to rebellion of their will and affections. I know, that some learned men of ours, do hold that the whole Church visible doth not err, but in the parts it may and doth err, but seeing it may err in the parts, I cannot see, but it may do so, though not fundamentally and pertinaciously in the whole: your Church is no more able to defend their gross errors, then I am able to defend myself against an host of men of ten thousand, and therefore the devil hath taught them a trick, to defend all in gross at on● blow, by maintaining that the Church cannot err: but senior Philip, I would wish you, and all private men, to take heed of this opinion; for by this they do deceive many thousand souls, to their eternal perdition: for by this, they do defend their gross Idolatries, superstitions, and filthy absurdities, which must not be called into question, because their Church cannot err.  Philip, 
But before you proceed any further, show what is heresy, which maketh an heretic.  George, 
It is to be deceived in iudgement, in some principal grounds of true religion, as the Arrians were, in the denying the eternity of the son of God, and as the Pelagians were, and your Church with them, holding a liberty of will in a natural man in godly actions:& to persist obstinately in the same.  Philip, 
From whence are the principles of religion gathered?  George, 
I answer from the word of God.  Philip, 
So say we; but what word is it you mean?  George, 
I mean the word of God revealed in the Scriptures, 
Tim. 3.15.16.17.  which is sufficient to make man wise unto salvation, and to make a man of God perfect in all things.  Philip, 
I mean not onely the word of God written, but also the word of God revealed to the Church by traditions, from both which the principles of religion are gathered.  George, 
Your traditions make the word of God in the scripture imperfect, as if they needed a supply, but we renounce your traditions, if they be brought to supply the defect of the scriptures, they being a perfect rule to led unto eternal bliss, and therefore all principles of religion must be drawn from thence: mark what Saint John saith, what was the end of the written word, 
●●h. 20.31.  these things are written, that you might beleeue that Iesus is that Christ that son of God, and that in believing, ye might haue life through his name: and if the scriptures were written to bring us to faith, and to haue life in the name of Christ, and the scriptures being sufficient to this end, what need haue we then of your traditions, they being indeed not the word of God, but the word of human invention.  Philip, 
How can you know that scripture is scripture, and the word of God, but by the tradition of the Church?  George, 
I answer we contemn not the testimony of the Church, no nor the testimony of Heathen histories, wherein are recorded many things that are set down in the Bible: yet the Heathens testimony is not so good, as is the Churches, nor the Churches, so good, as the scriptures testifying of itself, nor the scripture so evident, as is the witness of the Spirit, who was the author of the scriptures.  Philip, 
How doth the Church witness, that the scripture is the word of God?  George, 
By publishing, and preaching it to the world.  Philip, 
How doth the Church preach and publish it to the world?  George, 
I answer first by reading, and therein it publisheth it, and preacheth it as a witness, that the scriptures they read, is the word of God, Secondly, the Church doth preach and publish it by Sermons, that the scriptures is the word of God, and this is by explication, in delivering the true sense, and applying it to the necessary use of sinful souls.  Philip, 
And how doth the scripture bear witness unto men that it is the word?  George, 
I answer, that the grounds to show out of the scriptures, that they are the word of God, 
The causes of ●●e Scripture.  may be reduced to six heads, the first is taken from the causes: as first, from God the author of scriptures; and secondly, the pen-men of the holy Ghost, namely, the Apostles, and Prophets, and Evangelists, touching the author, the Scripture refers itself onely unto God, therefore he alone is the bare and undoubted author thereof, and this in conscience we may rest vpon.  Philip, 
And what say you to the pen-men of the holy Ghost?  George, 
For the writers of the scriptures, Moses, the Prophets, and the Apostles, in their writings do not set forth their own glory, virtue, and nobility, but haue acknowledged their own errors, and faults, yea such faults, as may be disgraceful to themselves, and their posterity: a plain proof, that they were not carried by policy, and natural reason, but were holy men, guided by the holy Ghost: if reason had guided them they would never haue written, that which would haue turned to their disgrace, but would rather haue commended themselves, their name, stock, and lineage, as human writers do: but these writers give and ascribe all praise and glory to God, yea when they speak of commendation due to men, they give it all to God in men, God is in their writings, the beginning, the end, and all.  Philip, 
And what is the second head of reasons?  George, 
The second head of reasons, 
The matter of the Scripture.  is taken from the matter and contents, as first no other books can set out the corruption of mans nature by sin, the fountain of this corruption, and the punishment of the same, both in this life and in the life to come; it discovereth sinful particular thoughts, lusts, and affections, which no other book hath ever done besides, the reason of man cannot discern them by nature, unless it receive a further light by grace. Yea, the Scripture sets down things, that no mans heart can imagine, and yet are true by experience: for example, that it is an evil thought to think there is no God, man by nature cannot imagine it, but it is true by experience, and therefore David saith, 
Psal. 14.  the fool hath said in his heart, there is no God. Thus by the light of the Word it is true, therefore the Scriptures is the Word of God. Secondly, that the main contents of the Scriptures are sundry Articles of faith, all which are above mans reason, and yet they are not against it, but at least some of them may be proved by it; for example, that there is a Redeemer of the world, is an Article of faith above reason, yet not against it, for in natural understanding, God is not all justice, and no mercy, but if there were no Redeemer, then should God be all justice without mercy▪ now because he hath revealed himself, to be as well merciful, as he is just, reason concludeth, there is a Redeemer. again, that the Redeemer should be God and man, is above reason, yet not against it, for reason teacheth that he must be God, that he might satisfy the infinite justice of God for sin, which none but God can do; again, that he must be man, because that man had sinned, man must be punished for the sin of man. Thirdly, in the Scriptures there are sundry predictions of Prophecies made before-hand particularly, which notwithstanding were not to come to pass till 100. 200. or 300. yeares after: and all these Prophecies or predictions, in the same manner as they haue been foretold, haue been fulfilled. As for example, jacob in his Will foretold, that the sceptre should not depart from Iuda till Shilo, that is, the messiah come: this was verified, even as it was foretold; for a little before Christs birth, the sceptre was taken from the Iewes, and translated to the roman Empire; and Herod put the whole college of the jewish Governors, called the Sanedrin to death. I might declare many more predictions, which came to pass as they were foretold, which do evidently show, that the Scriptures are the Word of God. Fourthly, the Law a part of the Scripture, is propounded most purely and perfectly without exception or limitation, whereas in all mans laws some sins are condemned, but some be tolerated and permitted, but in Gods Law every sin is condemned,& none either forborn● or excused, therefore the Scripture is Gods word. Lastly, the style and speech of the Scripture is plain and simplo, without affectation, and yet full of grace and majesty; for in that simplo style it commandeth the whole man, body, and soul; it threateneth everlasting death, and promiseth everlasting life, and it doth more affect the heart of man, then all the writing in the world whatsoever. 
The effects of Scripture.  The third reason to show the Scripture to be the Word of God, is taken from the effects, whereof onely two shall suffice. First the doctrine of the scripture in the Law, and especially in the gospel, is contrary to the corrupted nature of man; whereupon Paul saith thus; 
Rom. 8.7.  the wisdom of the flesh is enmity against God; and yet the same Word being Preached, converteth nature, and turneth the heart of man into it, in such sort, as in this last age, it hath won a great part of the world, to the embracing thereof. Now in reason this is impossible, that a thing which is so flat against mans corrupted nature, should prevail with it so far, as to cause man to live and to die in the profession and the maintenance thereof; and this sheweth that God is the Author thereof, from whom the word of Creation came, to which every thing at the first yielded obedience, therefore the Scriptures is the Word of God. Secondly, the Word of God hath this effect, to be able to minister comfort, in all distresses of body and mind, and of conscience; and when the helps of human learning, which is of great use, and force in other cases, haue done all that they can, without effect or success, even then, the sweet promises of the gospel, will revive and raise up the heart, and give it full contentment. Experience sheweth this to be a confessed truth in particular cases,& it teacheth whence this word proceedeth, wherein these promises are contained, namely, from God: for when he setteth the conscience vpon the rack, the Word that relieveth and refresheth the same, must needs proceed and come from him alone. 
Properti●●.  The fourth reason is from the properties of Scripture; the first is antiquity, which most plainly appears in Scriptures by the Histories, though the doctrine is also as ancient; therein is contained a continual history, from age to age, for 4000. yeares before Christ, even from the beginning of the world. The second property is, consent with itself in all parts, both for matter, scope, and end. The writings of men do dissent from themselves, by reason of ignorance and forgetfulness in the Authors; but the Scripture agreeth with itself most exactly, and the places that seem to disagree, may easily be reconciled; which sheweth, that holy men, by whom it was penned, were directed by the wisdom of the spirit of God; therefore the Scripture is the Word of God.  

Contraritties.  The fift reason is drawn from the contrarieties: the devil and wicked men, are in judgement and disposition, as contrary to Scriptures, as light to darkness. I prove it thus; let a man read any book of philosophy, and labour to be resolved vpon any one point therein, he shall never be tempted to infidelity; but if the same man red the books of Scripture, and labour to understand them, he shall haue within himself, many motions and temptations, not to beleeue and obey it. Now, what should be the cause thereof, but that these books are the Word of God, which the devil labours to oppugn with might and main, therefore the Scripture is the word of God? again, consider the same in the practise of wicked men, they will not brook the rebuk of their sins, as their idolatry, blasphemy, and other notorious crimes by Scriptures, but will seek the life of him that shall sharply reprove them. And hence it was, that wicked Kings so persecuted the Lords Prophets. Yea further, let it be marked, that those wicked men that are tainted with those wicked crimes, and cannot abide the Scriptures and teachers thereof to their death, haue commonly fearful ends. Now the opposition of Satan, and wicked men to the Scriptures, shows them to be the most holy word of God. The sixth reason is taken from sundry testimonies; first, of holy Martyres in the Old and New Testament, who haue given their lives for the maintenance of the Scriptures, and sealed with their blood, and that most patiently and willingly, not being dismayed. The stories of Martyrs in all ages confirm this truth; and unless they had been supported by a divine power, in so good a cause, they could never so many of them, haue suffered in such cruel manner as they did, therefore the Scriptures is the word of God. The second testimony, is the consent of heathen men; heathen men, who haue recorded the same things, at least many of the principles that are set down in the Scripture; if this were not so, man should haue some colourable excuse of his unbelief, and these things which they record, were not all taken out of the Bibles, but were regstired to memory by Historiographers, that lived in the times, when they were done; such were the stories of the Creation, and flood, and of the Tower of babel, of the ark, of Abraham, and of his possessions, of Circumcision, of the miracles of Moses, of the birth of Christ, of the death of Herod, Agrippa, and such like. And these we take for true in human Stories, much more then, ought we to do it in the Word of God, which is the Scriptures. The third testimony, is of miracles, the doctrine of Scripture was confirmed by miracles wrought by the Teachers thereof, the Prophets and Apostles, above all power and strength of nature, and such as the devil cannot counterfeit; as the staying of the sun, and the raising of the dead, &c. The fourth, is the testimony of the holy Ghost, which is the argument of all arguments, to settle and resolve the conscience, and to seal up the certainty, that the Scripture is the Word of God.  Philip, 
But how is the testimony of the holy Ghost obtained, and how may we discern it to be his testimony, and not of man?  George, 
I answer first by resigning ourselves to become truly obedient to the doctrine taught, John 7.17. 
joh. 7.17.  If any man will do my Fathers will, saith Christ, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, Secondly, by praying unto God, for his spirit to certify our consciences, that the doctrine revealed is the doctrine of God: ask saith our Saviour, and it shall be given you, and Mat. 7.7.8. 
Math 7.7.8.  Your heavenly Father will give the holy Ghost to them that desire him. Luke 11.13. 
Luk. 11.13.  If any man lack wisdom, let him ask it of God, who giveth to all men liberally, and reproacheth no man, it shall be given him. james 1.7. 
Iam. 1.7.  And thus I haue shewed you the evident testimonies, whereby a man may know that the scripture is the word of God: as first, the Church, whom God doth use as his instrument, to draw Infidels, to beleeue the scripture to be the word of God, and when Infidels are so persuaded, then the scriptures as a more stronger evidence, doth testify of itself, that it is the word of God, and this appeareth by those evident demonstrations, I haue formerly declared, and next the strongest and most infallible evidence is, of the spirit of God, when by his power, he doth regenerate, and change a man as it were, obediently into the word in love, to fear the threats against sin and sinners, and to obey the commandements, both negatively and affirmatively, and to repose himself confidently vpon the promises of grace and mercy therein revealed, and so much shall suffice to prove that the scripture, is the word of God.  Philip, 
When will you begin to prove that the Church may err, you haue again, made a long digression from it.  George, 
My digression hath risen vpon your questions, which I held fit for you to move, and me to answer, seeing the scriptures, are the ground of the Church, whereupon we do now confer, for as the Apostle saith, the Church is founded vpon the doctrine of the Apostles, and Prophets, Iesus Christ being the head corner ston, and wee know nothing of their doctrine, but by the scriptures: I know, you of your Religion, do held the authority of the Church, is greater then the authority of the scriptures, and therefore our digression, hath not been impertinent to our discourse of the Church, but of this hereafter.  Philip, 
What we of our Religion hold is true: but show your proof, that the visible church may err.  George, 
I will begin with Adam, in whose loins the visible Church was, even in the time of innocency, and yet then the Church erred, 
Gen. 2.17.  the Lord gave him a Law of prohibition, by forbidding him to eat of the fruit of the three of knowledge of good and evil, in which commandement stood his happiness, and felicity, namely, by cleaving unto God in obedience to this commandement, but he erred from this commandement, 
Gen 3.4.9.  in believing the Devils doctrine, who said, ye shall not die at all: but God doth know, that when ye shall eat thereof, your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as Gods, knowing good and evil: This lying doctrine, Adam believed and obeied to his own ruin, and the corrupting his posterity, this precept was easy for Adam to haue kept, seeing he was perfectly pure by Creation, and had ability to perform his act of obedience. But seing the Church in innocency erred, there is little hope, that the Church visible, consisting of none, but corrupted members, should not err. See what followed in the succeeding times of the visible Church, it was worse and worse, as may be seen by the corruption and confusion, that was in the time of Noah and of Abraham, and amongst the Israelites in Egypt, notwithstanding the miracles they saw, every day wrought before their eyes; as saith the Lord by ezechiel. When I had lift up mine hand to deliver you out of Egypt, 
Ezech. 20.6.7.8.  none of you did cast away the abominable things of Egypt: none of you did depart from your Idols. Thy breasts( saith he to the visible Church, 
Ezech. 23.  then to jerusalem herself) were bruised by the Egyptians in their virginity. And saith S. Steven, 
Act. 7.39.  in their hearts they turned back into Egypt. And this shall suffice for the first state and period of the visible Church.  Philip, 
Well, let me hear what you can say of the next period of the Church visible?  George, 
The next period of the Church, is under the Law. God hath had ever some Church visible vpon the earth, and therefore under the Law. When the people of God, 
Exod. 32. Psal. 106.19. 2 Kings. 18 4. Iere. 11.13. 2 King 22.17  both Priests and people, worshipped the calf in the wilderness; When they adored the brazen Serpent; When they served the gods of the Nations; When they bowed their knees to baal; When they burnt Incense, and offered sacrifice to Idols. Were not these errors, think you, and yet were they the visible Church of God that fell away into these vile abuses? True it is, the wrath of God was most fiercely inflamed against them, and their Prophets, justly condemned them, as an adulterous seed, and a wicked generation of miscreants, which had forsaken the living God, and of him were likewise forsaken, in respect of that singular mercy, wherewith he kindly and lovingly embraceth his faithful children. Howbeit, the members of the visible Church they were, and had formerly been, that thus after abandoned themselves to Idolatry, and to the service of strange gods: yea, members of the visible Church, continued many of them still, that yet worshipped the brazen Serpent, and that sacrificed in the high places, though directly contrary they did therein, to Gods express word and will. Finally, when the Iewes would not harken, to the admonition of the Prophets of God, the gracious God would, as it were, force them by his mercy, and therefore sent them down from heaven, salvation itself, to wit, Iesus Christ his onely son our Lord. But how did the visible Church carry herself towards him? Surely, he had no greater enemies, then the Priests, the Scribes, the Doctors, and the pharisees; and these were the clergy, as you speak, and such as had the Law committed unto them; these were those which should haue been the lights of the Church; and these, if Christ spake of the reformation of the Church, they said, He would destroy the Temple; if he spake of the grace of God offered by the messiah, then they said, He blasphemed against the Law of God; if he spake of the kingdom of heaven, then he spake against the majesty of Caesar; if he wrought miracles, then they said, it was by the power of the devils; and if he alleged the Scriptures, then they demanded to see his orders for his Doctorship; and they cast him in the teeth, that he was but a Carpenters son. And if you consider the Church visible amongst the people, they choose Barrabas, a murderer, refusing Christ the messiah, and him they Crucified. Oh, what a fearful error was this of the Rulers, and people of that visible Church! And thus much, in brief, of the errors of the visible Church from time to time, till Christ his ascension into heaven. I might haue shewed multitudes of examples in particulars, of the error of the visible Church before the Crucifying of Christ; but for the avoiding of wearisome tediousness to you and myself; I haue thought these sufficient, and if you will but acquaint yourself with the Scriptures, you shall find much more error to haue been in the visible Church, then any man can well relate by speech unto you.  Philip, 
Well, let me hear you prove to me, that one part of the visible Church is, or may be, more corrupted with error then another.  George, 
I answer, the visible Church, as I haue said, is but one; of which Church, all parts haue not been always equally sincere and sound. In the dayes of Abia, it appeareth plainly, that judah was by many degrees, more free from heresy and pollution then Israell; as that solemn Oration sheweth, where he pleadeth for the one against the other, on this wise; O Ierobeam, and all Israell, hear you me, haue you not driven away the Priests of the Lord, the sons of Aaron, and the Levites, and haue made you Priestes like the people of the Nations: whosoever cometh to consecrate with a young bullock and seven rams, the same may be a Priest of them that are no gods; but we belong unto the Lord our God, and haue not forsaken him, and the Priests the sons of Aaron minister unto the Lord every morning and every evening burnt offerings and sweet incense, and the bread is set in order vpon the pure Table, and the candlesticks of gold, with the lamps thereof to burn every evening; for we keep the watch of the Lord our God, but ye haue forsaken him. And do you not think, that the parts of the Christian Church, were defiled more one then another, with error& corruption, after Christs ascension? In S. Pauls time, the purity and integrity of Rome was famous: oh, that the Church of Rome were now as then it was! we need not then be exhorted, to join with it in Gods service; for we would willingly glorify God in her communion and fellowship, but as shee is we dare not, least we be partakers of her sins. read the Epistles to the Church of the Corinthians, and you shall find her many ways reproved. look into the Church of Galatia, and you shall find by the Epistle which Paul writ to them, that they were much more out of square, then Corinth was. look in S. John his time, who( as I take it) out-lived all the Apostles, and you shall find Ephesus and Smyrna in far better state of purity, then Thiatira and Pergamus were: the errors of them I omit for brevities sake.  Philip, 
But Rome hath greater promises and privileges then all other parts of the visible Church, and therefore no marvel if they fail; if they forsake submission and communion with her.  George, 
In time convenient, we shall hear you show the promises, and privileges, and primacy of the Church of Rome above other parts of the visible Church. But in the mean time, it is clear, as I haue proved, that the visible Church hath erred in her several parts, and that one part hath been more corrupted, and more erroneous then another; it is the duty therefore of the visible Church, if one part be wounded with error or heresy, that the sounder in charity labour to heal it; if one pa●t be lame, the stronger part is in duty to endeavour to make it go upright in the faith of Gods truth; if one part be full of leprosy, the pure part should labour to cleanse it; if one part be sick unto death in heresy, the sounder part should labour to keep it alive in the Lords truth. This duty hath our Church of great britain charitably performed towards the Church of Rome, as is evident both by the learned books of our late gracious renowned& learned King; as also by the learned and godly disputations, and books of Controversies with your Church of Rome, and yet shee continueth in her corruptions and heresies still. It may be said of Rome, as our Saviour Christ said of jerusalem, 
Math. 23.37.38.  in S. Mathews gospel; his words are, jerusalem, jerusalem, which killest the Prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I haue gathered thy children together, as the hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not. And doth not the Church of Rome follow jerusalem in her rebellion, in killing and crucifying the Pastors& Prophets of the new Testament, which Christ in love doth sand unto her, to reclaim her? Hath not the Lord in mercy, a long time spread out the wings of the gospel, and clucked to the Chickens of Rome to come and gather themselves under the wings of his gracious protection, and to shelter and keep them, from eternal wrath and confusion to come, and yet they will not come out of that Church of confusion? I would wish you senior Philip, and all private men to obey the voice of Christ, and be well acquainted with it, to discern it from the voice of Antichrist, which speaketh in the Church of Rome. Blessed be God, the voice of Christ in the gospel, hath prevailed with many in drawing them to repentance; and although the Church of Rome, do labour to suppress and darken the light of it, yet God in mercy doth still keep it open, and causeth it to shine, whereby many are gathered into the more pure part of the visible Church, to their eternal salvation.  Philip, 
The Church of Rome hath the gospel of Christ as well as your Church.  George, 
But your Church keeps it shut from such as you and I am; wee must trust them with our salvation; wee must not look into the gospel of Christ for it; is not this a pitiful case?  Philip, 
Well, what haue you further to say of the visible Church; if you haue any thing further to say, speak on, that we may proceed to confer of other things.  George, 
I said that when I had shewed the Creation and corruption of all things, I would show the destruction of them: and in this I will be brief. First therefore I say again, that corruption doth go before destruction, and corruption is the cause of destruction, we may see by our own experience, that mans body being corrupted by diseases, bringeth forth death, which destroyeth the body. This corruption groweth for want of due proportion, the want of which, is caused by defect or want of that which should be, or by excess of that, which should not be: and this distemper, hath God laid vpon mens bodies for their sin; the whole course of nature, as you haue heard, is corrupted in the law of working, by Gods judgement for mans sin, and therefore at the day of Iudgement must be destroyed, as appeareth by the Apostle Peter. 2 Pet. 3.7. 
Pet. 2.3.7.  The heavens and earth which are now, are kept by the same Word in store; and reserved unto fire, against that day of condemnation, and destruction of ungodly men. And in the 10. verse, 
Vers. 10.  he sheweth that this destruction shall be unexpected; for he saith, but the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in the which the heavens shall pass away with a noise, and the elements shall melt with heat, and the earth, with the works that are therein, shall be burnt up. And the Apostle by way of exhortation in the 11. and 12. 
Vers. 11.12.  verses, saith to the visible Church, Seeing therefore that all these things must be dissolved, What manner of persons ought ye to be in holy conversation and godliness, looking for, and hastening unto the coming of the day of God, by the which the heavens being on fire, shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with heat? And thus you see that the whole world of Gods creatures must be destroyed; all wicked men both in the visible Church, and out of it, must be destroyed, the obedient and meek sheep of Christ, must go on his right hand to be blessed for evermore, and the sturdy goats on his left hand, to undergo his curse and wrath for evermore; therefore happy are they, which against that day, haue wrought out their salvation with fear and trembling: and against that day haue made their calling and election sure unto themselves, and then they will lift up their heads with joy. Thus you may perceive, that the visible Church at this great day of destruction, shall haue an end; nay, the ink, paper, and parchment of the Word of God must be destroyed with fire, but the Word of God endureth for ever.  Philip, 
It is time now that we come to confer vpon the marks of the Church, which we do hold as infaileable to the visible Church, whereby it may be known.  George, 
I pray you, senior Philip, give me leave a little, to say somewhat more of the visible Church, to show you not onely that it may, and hath erred, which already I haue proved, but the way whereby it hath erred, and is possible to err, if it be not guided with the spirit of God. The Word of God is for ever most pure, 
●sal. 12.6.  and therefore cannot be corrupted by any devil, or devilish men: but the Church may be corrupt two ways: The first, by falsed explications, in delivering a false sense of some part of the Scriptures,& making that false sense to be a Rule and Law of working for the visible Church. The other way is, by making the Word written to be imperfect, by adding a supply of the imperfection thereof by the Churches traditions. And these two ways the Church of Rome doth err most grossly, as hereafter, God-willing, shall be declared in our further Conference. But I will no longer hinder you, from showing me the marks of the Church, which your Church holds infaileable; come, I pray you let me hear them.  Philip, 
I pray senior George, fail not seriously to observe them; for they be such as will not deceive you, but will directly point out unto you the pure visible Church of Christ, to which if you submit yourself, you may expect salvation.  George, 
Well, senior Philip, let me hear them.  Philip, 
They be these: 1. Succession; 2. antiquity; 3. Multitude; 4. Miracles; 5. Visibilitie; 6. Unitie; 7. Holy; 8. catholic.  George, 
Then senior Philip, if it please you we will try by your marks which is the purer Church, yours of Rome, or ours of great britain.  Philip, 
I am very well contented, and if you will, wee will begin with your Church: and first, for Succession; by this mark, you are no Church, for your Church hath been but since Luthers dayes, which I take it is not so much as 200. yeares; but our Church succeeded the Apostles liueally from Bishop to Bishop, especially, S. Peter in his bishopric and seat of Rome.  George, 
I pray you, senior Philip, is this succession of place and person, a ground of your faith and Religion, whereby you look to attain everlasting life?  Philip, 
Yes surely, it is a principal ground of our faith and Religion.  George, 
Then I am very sorry for you, that you build your faith and salvation, vpon so unsound, so uncertain, and so erroneous a ground.  Philip, 
Well, what say you to succession, do you utterly deny that?  George, 
No, surely, so as there be not wanting succession of sound and uncorrupted doctrine. And if you will give me leave, I will show you our foundation, vpon which we build our faith and salvation; and next, I will show you our succession.  Philip, 
I warrant you will show me a goodly foundation: how can you show a foundation, or a Church of God to build vpon that foundation, seeing you want builders; for your builders are but counterfeit, for they cannot show their lawful ordination, and sending, whereby they haue power to build; for the Apostle saith, None can Preach, 
Rom. 8.  except he be sent.  George, 
Well, senior Philip, hearken what I shall say in defence of our Church of great britain; and if you will reason with mildness, like a good Christian, though you be very ignorant, yet if your errors be but a misconceit in your judgement, and are not yet grown into your will of perverseness, then I hope all partial affections will be laid aside by you, and you will give heed unto the truth, you shall hear: but if your partial respect to the Church of Rome be such, that you will not give heed unto the truth when you hear it, then it will be better to give over our Conference. What say you; will you hear with a meek mind?  Philip, 
Well, I will hear you till you be weary, as I haue before promised you.  George, 
Then thus I begin, when man had utterly lost his life of holiness by sin, and by it exposed himself to all miseries both corporal and spiritual, temporal and eternal; the mighty and gracious God, out of his infinite goodness and mercy, laid a supernatural foundation and ground, whereupon, to build a spiritual and supernatural house, for his own special habitation, which is the Church of his elect: and this foundation, was laid before he called labourers to build his elect vpon it. I desire therefore to take the same course in reasoning with you: all men of discretion you know, when they go about to build a house, will first be assured the ground is strong, firm and sure, and then will get labourers and artificers to build it up; this therefore is my desire, to show you the foundation and ground of the Church, before I come to the Church, or builders thereof.  Philip, 
Well, proceed, what is the ground of the Church, whereupon it is built, and which a man must rest his soul on for ever?  George, 
I answer: that the foundation and ground of the Church of Gods elect, is the promise of God, and the matter promised, 
Gen. 3.15.  which is, the seed of the woman, shall break the serpents bead: this is that foundation, on which the Church hath been built in all the ages of the world. I think I shall not need to prove, that this seed of the woman, is Iesus Christ our Saviour, for I suppose that the weakest Christian doth know it; but this I desire to prove, that the Church hath no other foundation, and that this foundation, is the alone foundation, and that there is none other, whereupon the Church should be builded, 
1 Cor. 3.11.  and this by the first to the Corin. 3.16. is manifest, in these words, for other foundation can no man lay, then that which is laid, which is Iesus Christ; and that Christ is the foundation of the Church, look these places. Mat. 16.18. and 21.24. Acts. 4.11. and many more: vpon this foundation, the Church of old, in the time of nature, was built even when, and before the word of God was written, for God revealed this foundation to Adam, by word of mouth, and renewed the same to the 12. Patriarkes, by tradition for the space of 2400 yeares: unto the time of Moses, the lives of men in the Patriarkes times, were long, and their memories served as books, to record this foundation, and therefore when the lives of men were shortened by sin, it pleased God to use in mercy to his Church, means more durable; and therefore in Moses time, committed the foundation, and doctrine of the Church to writing: therefore our Saviour Christ saith now, Search the Scriptures, for in them, you think to haue eternal life, for they testify of me: So that if ever we will find the foundation, and the doctrine, to build the Church vpon this foundation, we must look into the scriptures for all, or else, we shall never but go astray; therefore the Apostle saith, 
Ephe. 2. ●0.  ye are built vpon the foundation of the Apostles and Prophets, Iesus Christ himself, being the chief corner ston. This is the foundation vpon which our Church of great britain, doth build the souls of men unto heaven I hope you dare not say this is an error, and a false foundation.  Philip, 
No I will not say, it is an error, and false foundation, but this is your error, that you will not admit an other foundation, though Christ himself, hath laid one in these words, vpon thee Peter, will I build my Church, but this I will further prove anon.  George, 
I haue shewed you in Paul to the Corinthians, plain denial of any other foundation of the Church; and therefore that place of our Saviour to Peter, must be understood of the object of Peters faith, which is Christ himself, as the coherence of the place doth evidently declare. And when you endeavour further to prove your false foundation, you shall haue further answer; in the mean time, consider I do earnestly desire you, as you tender your own salvation, and entreat you to ground your faith, and salvation, vpon this most holy and strong foundation. All other foundations that the Church of Rome hath laid, are all but false foundations and will deceive you.  Philip, 
Well senior George, tell me now the head of the catholic Church, and declare that unto me also.  George, 
I answer, that Iesus Christ our Saviour, is also the alone head of the catholic Church, for he is not onely the strong and powerful ground and foundation of the Church, to uphold it, that it sink not into the sea of Gods wrath, to its confusion for ever, but he is also the head and husband of the Church, who wisely governs his Spowes the Church, and that he is the head of the Church, see what the Apostle saith to the Ephesians, 
Ephe. 1.10.  and hath made all things subject under his feet, and hath given him over all things, to be the head to the Church, which is his body; 
Chap. 5.  and he saith further, in the 5. Chap. For the husband is the wives head, even as Christ is the head of the Church, and the same is the Saviour of his body, and to the Colos. he saith, 
Col. 2.10.19.  and ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principallitie and power, and he is the master of the Church, Christ Iesus our Saviour is the essential word and wisdom of the Father, 
Math. 10.25.  and therefore wisely disposeth the building of the Church, vpon the foundation, which is himself: wee know by natural reason, that though the soul of the body of man, is the life of every part, yet the seat of reason, wisdom, and understanding is in the head, even so the soul of the Church, is the spirit of God, which spirit doth knit us the members of the Church, unto our head Christ, yet the seat of the wisdom of the Church, is in the head, which head, is anointed with oil of wisdom, and gladness above his fellowes, and of his fullness, doth the Church receive grace for grace, and the several members by him are made wise unto salvation, this is indeed and in truth, the head of the catholic Church, and under this head, doth our Church of great britain, profess the catholic faith, and our particular Church of great britain, doth aclowledge no other catholic head of the universal Church; wee aclowledge our sovereign King CHARLES, to be supreme governor, of all causes ecclesiastical and civile, in his dominions, next and immediately under Christ; but we do not aclowledge him to be the supreme of the catholic Church, neither will he be so impious, to take this title vpon him; that title which he doth justly take vpon him, and wee do ascribe unto him, is the gracious ordinance of God, for Esay prophesied that Kings should be nursing Fathers, and queens should be nursing Mothers, 
Isay. 49.  even to the Churches of the Gentiles. The first king that governed the Common-wealth, and Church of Israel, was Saul, his name as saith the learned, signifieth desired, for the people being weary of the government of God, 
1 Sam. 8.7.  desired to haue a king to govern them, and God granted them their desire, and gave them Saul to be their king; and after Saul, David, 
1 Sam. 16.17.  and then Salomon, and the rest lineally after him, till the Romans by Gods just iudgement, for the sins of the jewish Church, did conquer them, and then the sceptre was taken away from the Tribe of Iuda, which was the Kings Tribe, but remained still with the Sanedrin of the Iewes, but when the prophesy of jacob was fulfilled, which was, 
Gen. 49.10.  that Shilo should come, which Shilo was Christ, then did the romans take away the sceptre from Iuda, and not before: now I say that Saul the first king, was not of the Tribe of Iuda, because he was desired of the people, but David being chosen of God for their king, he was of the Tribe of Iuda, of whose seed lineally Christ came: now you see that kings are the ordinance of God: see what the head and foundation of your Church saith, which is Peter the Apostle, 
1 Pet. 2.13.  Submit yourselves unto every ordinance of man for the Lords sake, whether it be unto the King, as unto the superior, hear what the Apostle Peter saith, he calleth the king the superior, but your Pope will be supreme above him, and he saith further, and unto Governours, as unto them that are sent of him, for the punishment of evil doers, and for the praise of them that do well: and see their power confirmed by the Apostle Paul in these words, 
Rom. 13.1.2.3.4.5.  Let every soul be subject to the higher powers, these powers are the Magistrates, and they are ordained of God, and there must be subiection to them, for conscience sake: Let your Pope and Priestes, and People, look to this ordinance of God, but your Pope especially makes no conscience of this ordinance of God, but shows himself as king of kings: now further what saith our Saviour Christ, for the confirmation of the power of kings, saith he, give unto Caesar, the thing that is Caesars. Thus you see what we attribute unto our king, which is a superiority of government in his own dominions, and not over the whole catholic Church: but to the head and foundation of the Church, I say again unto you senior Phillip, and to all private men whatsoever, by way of admonition, that you look most carefully to the head and foundation of your souls: for it is a dangerous matter in this to be deceived; for the building of your souls, must be answerable to the foundation, and that must be by sound, pure, and wholesome doctrine: let me show you a little resemblance; A man that buildeth an house, and setteth it partly, vpon a firm and strong foundation, and partly, vpon an vnfirme, sandy, and unsound foundation, that unsound foundation, being not strong to bear up the building, will be an occasion of the fall, and ruin of the whole frame: whereas if the builders had built the house vpon the strong foundation onely, though they had not builded it so cunningly as they should, yet there is hope the house would stand, by reason of the strong foundation; and that part of the vnskilfull building, by better advice might be mended: now to apply this to our present purpose; your Church of Rome, doth build, as they pretend your souls to God, and they do lay a foundation; this foundation, is partly Christ, and partly Peter, and his supposed successors the Popes. Now I say the latter part of their foundation is erroneous and unsound, and will prove the utter destruction of your souls for ever; for Christ will be the whole foundation, or none at all, and therefore build not your souls vpon such deceitful foundations; as these, that Peter had a sovereignty over the rest of the Apostles. 2. That he was a particular Bishop. 3. That he was Bishop of Rome. 4. That he had his seat at Rome 25. yeares. 5. That the Pope that now is, is Peters successor, and 6. That the Church of Rome, cannot err, nor the Pope in his consistory. I tell you senior Philip, these be such rotten foundations, and so erroneous, or uncertain, that the relying vpon them, will rather bring you to eternal confusion, then to everlasting salvation and bliss for ●vermore. I haue shewed you in the Corinthians, that other foundation can no man lay, then that which is laid, which is Iesus Christ. If the builders vpon this foundation, be unwise, by building vpon it false doctrine, which is likened to straw or stubble, this manner of building, shall not always deceive, but the light of the truth at length, appearing as day, shall dissolve this dark doctrine, and show what it is, so that it shall not stand vpon this pure foundation, which is Christ; yet so long as this gracious foundation which is Christ is mainetained entire, there is hope of salvation vpon repentance: for their false building, it shall be burnt away with the fire of Gods truth.  Philip, 
Well senior George, it is now time to confer vpon our marks of the visible Church.  George, 
I am contented that now we begin to examine them, but I must tell you, we shall now spend our conference most vpon controversies, depending between your Church of Rome, and ours of Great Brittany.  Philip, 
And I must tell you senior George, that there is no part of the visible Church, that doth contend with the Church of Rome in contrarying her doctrine, and opposing against her, but they are heretical, and schismatical Churches; and therefore I fear you will show yourself an heretic if you contradict the doctrine of our Church.  George, 
You make me remember a thing done in my Fathers house, when I was a little boy: there was a ploughman of my Fathers, who being a good husband, had by his thrift got a stock of money, and in a Winter evening received 3. pound of one of his debtors, and  told it by the kitchen fire, before his fellowes: and one of them a wicked fellow, covetous of his money, vpon a sudden went out of the kitchen, as if he went to bed; but indeed, went and stood behind the stable door, with his hatchet in his hand, prepared ready against he that had the money should come to bed, who lay over his horses, and when he came to bed, he struck his fellow on the head with his hatchet, and dazzled him, and he that was strucken, laid his hand vpon his head, and the thievish fellow struck again with his hatchet, and hit his fellow that had the money, on the back of the hand, the ploughman being thus vilely strucken, cried out so, that the whole household came out to help him, and the doggs came out running before them, so that the thievish fellow was prevented of his purpose, and was enforced to flee from him, whom he had thus treacherously strucken, and being out of sight of the whole household, runneth with the doggs deceitfully, as if he had set them on the thief: but indeed himself was the chief, as was afterwards well proved; even so it is with your Church of Rome, all visible parts of the Church, that haue purged and reformed themselves, from the dross and filth of your corruptions, you term them schismatics, and heretical Churches- when in truth, the Church of Rome herself, is the most notorious heretical, and schismatical Church in the world: but why are those parts of the visible Church heretical? even forsooth, because they will not aclowledge the Popes tyranny, and arrogancy over the catholic Church, which by their report, is the principal Article, we must beleeue, if we will be saved, and again, because we reject Images: and because, wee worship not the bread in the Communion: and because, wee communicate under both kindes: and because, the Priestes with us are married: and because, wee know not what Purgatory is, nor allow of it: these and many more of your heresies, because we allow them not, but abhor them, because they are contrary doctrines to Gods truth, therefore all the reformed Churches, are Churches of heretics, and your Pope doth set his Priests, and Iesuites, to bark at the true reformed Churches, as if they were theeues, and robbers, that come in at the window, rather to fleece the flock of Christ, then to feed them with whole some food of Gods truth, when indeed they themselves, are the starvers, fleecers, and stroyers of the flocks of Christ Iesus.  Philip, 
Well, well, you still wrong the Church of Rome, for shee is the true ancient Church, and holds the ancient faith, and if you can, show me the error, the author of the error, and the time, when such error was brought into the Church, and if you cannot, you are a vile fellow, in thus condemning the Church of Rome, for an heretical Church.  George, 
Is not he a strange foolish man, that his house being on fire, and his neighbour telling him of it, will drive his neighbour to prove how it came on fire; he should rather thank his neighbour, and entreat him to help to put it out, then to drive him to prove, by what man, and at what time, it came on fire; nay, your Pope should do, as cleanly housewiues do, who when their houses are foul, do not inquire how they came foul, but will set their servants a work, and put their own helping hand also to the cleansing of them: but your Pope and Priests, will rather defile the Church of Christ, with their filthy feet of their affections, by bringing in more vile superstitions, then cleanse it of any.  Philip, 
Well, prove the error, the author, and the time of the error, or else you prove nothing, and what you say, is idle and vain.  George, 
Well, I will show some of your errors, the authors of the errors, and about what time, they were brought into the Church, and by these few, you may perceive, how the rest came into the Church, by the pride and covetousness of your Popes. The sons of Zebedees children, 
Math. 10.42.  sued to Christ for the greatest rooms of honour in his kingdom, Christ answers them, ye know that the Lords of the Gentiles haue dominion, an● they that are great, exercise authority over them, but it shall not be so with you; what saith Saint Bernard vpon thi● place to Pope Eugenius, it is plain saith he, that here dominion is forbidden; and what saith your own Pope Gregory the great, if one be called universal Bishop, the universal Church goeth to decay: and yet doth your Pope usurp an universal dominion directly, against the plain prohibition of our Saviour Christ, and the iudgement of these two Fathers: the one whereof, being Pope, did oppose John Bishop of Constantinople, which laboured for the universal supremacy, which afterward Boniface the 3. Bishop and Pope of Rome, ambitiously obtained, about the year of our Lord and Saviour Christ, 6●7. and of whom did he obtain it, but of Phocas the Emperour, who as stories record, was a murderer of his Lord and Master: And this is the first error, that I note now of your Church, with the authors, and the time of it. Gods commandement is, that no Images be made for superstitious use, 
Exod 20.  and that none should bow down to them, nor worship them: and yet Adrian Pope of Rome, prevailed with Constantine the Emperour, and his mother Irene, to hold a council at Nice, which yet was not the ancient and first council of Nice, in which council, was decreed the retaining, making, having, setting up, and worshipping of Images, and to salute them in the name of the Lord; was not this gross Idolatry think you? This was about the year of Christ, 733. and here you haue the authors, and time of this gross error. The levitical priests were married, and so were some of the Apostles, and Paul saith, Let a Bishop be the husband of one wife: he saith, to avoid fornication, let every man take his own wife: and yet contrary to Gods word, and the practise of godly pastors, Pope Silvester the first, for bad Sub-deacons to mary, and this was about the year of our Lord, 315. and Pope Damasus about the year 369. decreed that no clergy man, should haue knowledge of his wife, because it is written, those that are in the flesh cannot please God: and Gregory the 7. about the year 1070. in a council at Rome, forbiddeth the clergy, Priests, Bishops or Deacons, to mary, under pain of the great curse, this doctrine is plain the doctrine of Devils, as Paul saith. About the year 492. Pope Gelasius, began to be Pope, in whose time, some would haue brought in the Communion of the Lords supper but in one kind, but this Gelasius writeth against such; I know not by what superstition they are taught to be thralled, who taking the portion of the holy body only, do abstain from the cup of the hallowed blood: either saith he, let them receive the whole sacraments, or be put from the whole, for such division of the sacrament, can not, without great sacrilege be committed: and yet the Church of Rome, doth take from the people, the communion of the blood of Christ, and hath prohibited their participation therein, by a solemn decree, ma●e in the council of Constance: contrary to the commandement of our Saviour Christ, who commandeth, drink ye all of this, as well as, eat ye all of this. Pope Symmachus, began his regency the year of our Lord, 500. and in his time( if the decree at least be his) he decreed, that the Pope is subject to none, but God, and yet Saint Peter saith, Men should submit to every ardinance of man, for the Lords sake, whether it be unto the king, as unto the superior. Pelagius the first, was the first that brought into the mass, prayer for the dead, 555. out of a short history, of your Popes, collected by a learned divine of ours, I had these errors, and might thence haue shewed you, the beginnings of many more, with the authors of them; but these shall suffice to the wise Christian, to take heed of seducement by any, to submit unto that Church.  Philip, 
Well, come senior George, let us come now to our marks of the visible Church, and first for succession, show me the iudgement and practise of your Church, touching this mark; and then I will show you the iudgement and practise of our Church of Rome, I do think you cannot prove your Church, to be a visible Church of Christ, by this mark.  George, 
God willing, by this mark, I will prove our Church, to be a pure part of Christs visible Church, which I shall the better prove, if I show you the succession of the visible Church, even from the beginning of the world, which I will do according to my poor understanding and reading, and that I hope according to the analogy of faith revealed in the scriptures, and the ministry of the word of faith in this Church, wherein I haue been bread all my dayes. I do hold it a truth, that ever since the world was created and finished, there was a visible or sensible known Church: the Church was once in innocency, in the loins of Adam and eve, and though Adam by eating the forbidden fruit, made himself, and his posterity, no Church of God, yet before God did give sentence against them, he laid the foundation of the Church in the promise, that the seed of the woman should break the Serpents head: and this promise was made sensible to Adams understanding, though he and eve had not grace of faith, to build their souls vpon it, till God had given sentence of guiltiness, and condemnation vpon them: I say then that Christ the promised seed of the woman, for in him the second person in the trinity, assumed our nature, so that those two natures, were yet but one person, is the foundation of the visible Church: but how is he the foundation of the visible Church? Not as he is the foundation of Gods elect; he is the foundation of the visible Church, by external profession, and external ministry, whereby they do outwardly aclowledge, and outwardly proclaim him to bee the head, and foundation of the Church: for even those that haue not saving and sanctifying grace, yet may conceive and beleeue Christ to be the messiah, who should reconcile men unto God, and they may conceive and beleeue him to be God, because God, who in nature is infinite, and is infinitely offended, is to be appeased also, by such a nature as is infinite, as also they may conceive and beleeue that man having offended God, must make satisfaction, which no man nor angel could do, but the man Christ Iesus, being perfect God and perfect man. And this foundation God laid, before he called Adam, either externally to be a pastor, or builder of the souls of others vpon this foundation, yea or before he called him by an effectual calling, to build his own soul vpon this foundation by faith; so that God himself immediately did preach Christ unto Adam, and by his preaching, did call Adam by an effectual calling, and gave him faith to build his soul vpon Christ the foundation: he made him also a Priest, to ●lesse the people, proceeding from his loins, and to offer sacrifices for himself and the people. He was also a King to govern them, and a Prophet to teach them: now that Adam was a priest, I think wee need not doubt, for the which I allege this reason; first, Adam and eve having sinned, they were both ashamed, and God clothed them with skins of beasts, to show them their beastliness; now the bodies of those beasts( it may be thought) were for Adam to offer in sacrifice, and that by them God caught him a law, and use of sacrifice: for it is not likely, that God would destroy beasts, to haue them spoyled; and it may seem that Adam had not liberty yet to eat any; and we see, that cain and Abell offered sacrifices, as being taught by their father Adam. These sacrifices were types, and figures of Christ to come, who should be slain, and offered as an eternal sacrifice, well pleasing unto God for the sins of the world: now as God gave Adam a law of sacrifices, so also he gave him a law of faith, and obedience, which law of faith and obedience, is the very same law of faith, and religious obedience, which we in the Church of great britain, do profess with them, as you shall hear anon. Now I say, Adam was the first builder of the souls of men vpon the foundation, which God in his infinite goodness, mercy, and power had laid: and he built them by that law and rule, faith and doctrine, which God had taught him, and this faith, doctrine, and law of working, is inseparably joined to those builders, whom God doth sand; and therefore none must separate those whom God hath joined: and therefore I marvel, that the Church of Rome do make succession of Pastors, to be a mark of the Church of God, without succession of doctrine.  Philip, 
But I pray tell me, who were Adams successors in his priesthood.  George, 
I answer; they were the first born of every family, to whom it may seem, that the rest brought the Tithes, offerings, and sacrifices, that were due unto the Lord, which some confirm also from the example of Abraham, who gave tithes unto Melchisedech, the first born of that family, whereof Abraham came; if Melchisedech at least was Sem, 
Heb. 7.2.  the second son of Noah, as divers Divines of great note haue held, and had the prerogative of the first born by Gods providence; Abraham himself was a priest, by reason he had a divided family of his own; but Melchisedech was a greater priest, 
Vers. 6.9.  and ten degrees before him, and therefore Abraham gave tithes unto Melchisedech, and he did bless( according to his office of priesthood) Abraham: the author to the Hebrewes, saith, without all contradiction, the less is blessed of the greater. jacob vowed to give tithes unto the Lord, and it is probable, that he performed his vow, and gave it into the hands of isaac, who was his father, and first born, 
Gen. 28. 2●.  and priest at that time by Gods special prerogative given unto him: so that from hence, I gather that Adams two sons, cain and Abell, brought their sacrifices to Adam their father, and high priest to offer unto God: but howsoever that were, this is certain, that as from Adam, they had been taught to sacrifice, so they sacrificed; and that course and order continued successively, till the time of the Law, and the priesthood of levy.  Philip, 
But name his successors, and show what law these first born Priests had to build the Church vpon the promised seed, seeing they had no law written.  George, 

Gen 5.  His successors and genealogy, are set down in the 5. of Genesis, where there be ten priests, and builders of the Church, from the creation till the flood; their names be these, Adam, Seth, Enosh, Kenan, Mahalaleell, Iered, Henoch, Methusalem, Lamech, Noah.  Philip, 
And what law and rule, had they to build the souls of men, vpon Christ the promised seed?  George, 
I answer, that the word of God was their law and rule, by which they did build the Church vpon Christ the rock of our salvation; they builded not by human inventions.  Philip, 
And how was the word delivered, seeing it was not written?  George, 
I answer, that the word of God, was then delivered by tradition, first, God delivered and revealed his will to Adam by word of mouth, and renewed the same to the Priests and Patriarkes, not by writing, but by speech, and dreams, and other inspirations; and thus the word of God went from man to man, for the space of two thousand and four hundreth yeares, unto the time of Moses, who was the first penman of holy scriptures.  Philip, 
But can you show nothing out of scripture, that that Religion, doctrine, and faith, which was then, is the same which your Church of great britain, now profess and preach to the world? you said it is the same, prove it, or else how shall I beleeue you, and if you do not prove it, you will show yourself to be but a liar and a deceiver.  George, 
God willing I will prove it hereafter, but first give me leave to confirm their Priesthood and sacrifice, by an other place of scripture, which I had almost forgot: job in his time was a priest, and jethro, Moses father in law was a Priest, and therefore there were other Priests as I take it, besides the line of Priests which I haue recited: but those Priests were onely kept in memory by tradition, and registered by Moses; because of their line the high Priest of our profession Christ should come, and because in that line, Religion was most purely preserved.  Philip, 
prove that job was a priest.  George, 
I think I can do it, and that very plainly in the last Chapter of his book, the Lord being angry, and his wrath kindled against Eliphas the Temanite,& his two friends; for ye haue not spoken of me the thing that is right, like my servant job; therefore take unto you now seven Bullocks, and seven Rams, and go to my servant job, and offer up for yourselves burnt offering, and my servant job shall pray for you, for I will accept him, least I should put you to shane; thus you see that job was a Priest; and did the office of a Priest, to pray for, bless, and receive the sacrifice of the people brought to him by Gods command: this confirms that I haue formerly said of the Priesthood of Adam, and his successors.  Philip, 
Now to their Law and doctrine, let me hear it.  George, 
The Lord having created the first man, called his name Adam, which signifi●th earth, or earthly; and Adams first son was Cain, which signifieth possession, for so did Adam name him: but he perceiving what might be the comfort of such possession, nameth his second Abell, which signifieth vanity, to show, that if a man haue never so large kingdoms, or possessions, or be never so nobly born, as Cain was, except the son of God, it is all but vanity, and a vexation of mind. This is the doctrine that we the Church of great britain do profess and teach, that Christ is the onely gain and possession, and that all other gain and possession is but vanity and vexation without him; therefore Adam nameth his third son Seth, which signifieth settled; so that Adam considered his own miserable condition by sin, and the vanity of all things in this world, Gods grace so wrought with him, that by faith he settled himself vpon the promised seed, Christ Iesus, the immovable rock of our salvation: and to express his stability of faith, called his son Seth, that is, settled. Now you shall see by the names of the rest of the ten fathers, what virtues are signified by them, Seth having obtained by Gods free favour the faith of his father Adam; this faith being the principal grace, whereby the souls of the righteous are knit unto Christ; and it is faith in Christ, that produceth a godly life; for, what is not of faith is sin, therefore Seth calleth his son Enosh, which signifieth zealous, and therefore sorrowful; and this he did, because he saw the corruption of Religion, and good life to ensue vpon the marriage of the sons of God with the daughters of men, who regard worldly preferment rather then the promise of life everlasting, by continuing in true Religion, which zeal and sorrow we profess for the like sins. Enosh name his son Kenan, which signifieth the contrite or godly repentance, which sorrow is mentioned by the Apostle Paul to the Corinthians, where he saith; I rejoice not that ye did sorrow, but that ye sorrowed unto repentance: which sorrow unto repentance, is a turning from all sin unto God: and this contrition, sorrow, and repentance we profess and teach. Now as repentance cometh of godly sorrow, and as faith, zeal, and godly sorrow unto repentance, are gracious gifts of God; so there is required a thankful acknowledgement of them; therefore Kenan name his son Mahalaleel, which signifieth praise God; which none can do effectually, without an humble and a lowly mind; he knowing that such fruit is required of such a three, therefore he nameth his son Iared, the humble or lowly. Now look back a little, what hath been said by the first builders of the Church, first, they settled themselves vpon Christ the sure foundation of the Church; next, they are zealous for Religion, and sorrowful for the wickedness of the times; next, they are contrite and sorrowful, and repent, and turn to God from their own sins; and then they are thankful, and praise God for all his spiritual favours, and corporal blessings: and all these virtues which they profess, must be in an humble and a lowly minded man, that is endued with all the foresaid graces. They with us say, he shall be a vessel sanctified unto honour, meet for the uses of the Lord: therefore Iared the lowly, name his son Henoch the holy, which is the signification of his name, and therefore it is said, he walked with God: and this he did in a holy conversation of life, as a man dedicated to God, and therefore was taken up into heaven. Thus we see by the signification of these names, what was, and is the will of God; wherein they did, and we should spend our dayes, in walking with God in holiness, as Henoch did, and the other fathers: and saith the Apostle, the end of our faith, is the salvation of our souls unto everlasting life; and therefore Henoch the holy, nameth his son Methusala, which signifieth long life. Thus Henoch being assured of the infinite mercies of God towards him and his seed, by faith still beholding as in a glass, the redemption by the son of God, nameth his son accordingly long life: but because men should not think, that any here in this world liveth without calamity, and least outward happiness, should make men forget God, Methusala being a Prophet preached of the destruction of the world by the flood, calleth his son Lamech, which signifieth strucken or heart wounded; which sheweth that Lamech, was outwardly afflicted by men, and inwardly afflicted in conscience by the devil; and in respect that he being next those times of danger, wherein the world should be drowned, for despising the preaching of the Fathers. And though God throweth consciences down for a while, with grief of other mens just punishment, yet he raiseth them up again, giving them hope of his assured promises, and a sweet comfort of eternal life. Lamech being thus strengthened by faith, aiming still to the sentence of salvation propounded in paradise, calleth his son, Noah, which signifieth restorer or comforter. Noah was a figure of Christ, and we do not read, that God did speak to any of these ten Fathers, but to Adam the first, and Noah the last of the ten Fathers, before the flood. He built the ark a figure of the Church, and therefore he was a figure of Christ, the great builder of the spiritual Church of God. I desire to be as short as I can, and therefore I will here end my discourse of the first age of the Church, in which time all fundamental truth of religion was taught, which you may conceive by their significant names, which is the very religion wee at this day do profess in this particular Church of great britain, and therfore wee are in a true succession, in that which is the life and being of a true visible Church of Christ, and therefore senior Philip, I exhort you and all private men, to look chiefly to the succession of true faith, and doctrine, without which you can haue no hope of salvation, though you haue succession of persons.  Philip, 
Well, haue you done with the Fathers and builders of the Church before the Law, if you haue, then proceed to your succession.  George, 
I remember that one of the Apostles saith, that God did in times past sundry ways speak unto his people, but now at the last, he speaks to us by his own son: but I will as well as I can, show first how God did ordinarily speak to his people in the second age of the Church, which is under the Law. In the former age of the Church, the word and laws of God were ordinarily, as you haue heard delivered by tradition: but as I haue said, the lives of men being shortened, their memories were more weak, and therefore the Lord in mercy delivered his laws and will by means more durable, which was by writing; then he ordained other ordinary Priests, which were successors of the first born Priests, and these were the Priests of levy: 
Numb. 12.21  and this appeareth in the third of numbers, in these words: and also the Lord spake unto Moses saying; I haue even taken the Levites from among the children of Israell, for all the first born that openeth the matrix of the children of Israell, and the Levites shall be mine; and the end was to serve God in the Sanctuary. Now for this ministering tribe levy, there were degrees among them: for those that came of his son Kohath, were the high Priests; and those that came of Gershom and Merari, were allotted unto inferior services, as in this book largely appeareth: but you must understand that the first born of the Kohathites, were onely high Priests, as Aaron, and the eldest after him lineally by ordinary rule in every Altar duty, as also onely appointed to enter into the holy of holies, and that once a year, these levitical Priests, did build the Church of God, vpon the blessed foundation Christ, by the word and laws of God written, which word and law, was all one with those laws delivered formerly by tradition, 
Exod. 19.5  but onely differed in the manner of delivery: the Lord did make choice of the Israelits to be his people, as appeareth in the 19 of Exodus, in these words: And now therefore if you will hear my voice indeed, and keep my Covenant: then shall you be my chief treasure above all people, though all the earth be mine. Now when the Lord had made choice of his Church, and Pastors to build the Church vpon Christ the foundation; which builders, were the levitical Priests, and those were the ordinary builders all the time of the Law. The Lord also raised extraordinary builders, which were the Prophets, which were the expounders of the Law, who prophesied also of the messiah to come: and those Prophets did denounce from God, the judgements which he threatened against the contemners and breakers of his laws: they spared none, neither priests, nor people, no, nor the Kings and Rulers, as Eliah  told Ahab; Thou and thy fathers house, do trouble Israel, and the Prophet Nathan  told David the King, Thou art the man: now as God had made choice of his Church, and appointed Pastors and Teachers to build the Church vpon Christ the foundation, so also he gave them laws, to frame the several souls of the Church, for his spiritual building. These laws were of 3 sorts, moral, judicial, and Ceremonial: 
Exod. 19.16.17.18.  First, for the moral law, with what majesty and terror, was it delivered; as in thundering and lightning, and in a thick cloud vpon the mount, and the sound of a trumpet, very loud, so that all the people were afraid, and the mount Sina was all on a smoke, because the Lord came down vpon it in fire, and the smoke ascended as the smoke of a furnace, and all the mount trembled exceedingly. Now if the Law were delivered with such majesty and terror, what shall become of contemners of this law, and of those that break this law, and teach men so to do, as your Pope, 
Math 5.19.  and Church of Rome do most foully, as( God willing) you shall hear hereafter. Now I pray you harken a little, what I shall say of the moral law and the gospel together. God calls the Israelites out of Egypt, and willeth them to hear his law in these words, God spake all these words saying, I am the Lord thy God, which brought thee out of the land of Egypt. In the first sentence, you haue the gospel taught in these words, thy God; for by this is understood the redemption by Christ: for though God in respect that he is the Creator, is God both of the wicked, and the ungodly, yet he never calleth himself the God of the wicked: hitherto is all the law referred, for all the prophecies in Christ are yea and Amen: this entrance to the Law by the Gospel, is exceeding necessary, for seeing if wee behold the infinite majesty of God in our weakness, there is no cause but of trembling and fear. It pleaseth God in the face of thy godly Redeemer, to show himself favourable, and reconciled, whereby we may approach with boldness. Now I say, God gave also judicial laws, for the political government of the common wealth of Israell, which judicial laws, were some ceremonial, some moral, or natural: as they were ceremonial, they ended at the death of Christ; but as they are natural, or moral, they bind always to the end of the world. Now the Magistrate might do nothing, but that which he knew to be the will of God, and therefore he was to stand before the high Priest, who shall ask counsel for him, by the iudgement of Urim and Thummim before the Lord, at his word they shall go out, 
Num. 27.28.  and at his word they shall come in, both he, and all the Children of Israel with him, and all the Congregation: and this wee also hold and teach, that our King and subordinate Magistrates under him, may do nothing for the government of the common wealth, but by consulting with God, to know his will by his word. And thus far we are in a true succession of the ancient Church.  Philip, 
Now I pray let me hear your iudgement of the ceremonial Law, and what the Iewes Church were taught by it.  George, 
I answer, that the jewish Church were taught by Moses, the redemption by Christ, and this he did by the ceremonial Law. First, of the Tabernacle, there were two places, 1 The Holy, 2 The Holy of holiest, the holy was called the Sanctuary of the world, and the holy of holiest, did represent the state of heaven, it is said in the Epistle to the Heb: 
Heb. 9.1.9. Heb. 10.1.  That the law was the shadow of good things to come: and the shadowing law, was the ceremonial law, as is plain to be perceived by this 10 Chapter: within the Holy of holiest, was the ark of the covenant of God, and it was covered, and the covering was called the mercy seat, which figured Christ, who is our propitiatory or mercy seat, to cover our sins: Over the mercy seat, were the form of two Angels, having relation to the Angels that kept the way to the three of life, to show that none were worthy to come into the Holy of of holiest, but Aaron the anointed of the Lord, who likewise figured Christ, both in name and office: in name, for a learned man of ours, saith that Aaron signifieth Christ, which in English is anointed, and in office, by entering once for all, into the Holy of holiest: for it was the high Priests office once every year to enter into the Holy of holiest with blood, of this David speakeh, When he cometh into the world, meaning Christ, he saith, Sacrifice and burnt offerings thou wouldest not haue, 
Psal. 40.7.  but a body hast thou ordained; in the beginning of thy book, it is written, that I should do thy will O God, then said I, lo I come. And thus you see how the redemption of Christ, was taught by Moses. Now to teach the Israelites the way to Christ the messiah, God appointed divers sacrifices, some to be offered up directly, for expiation for sin: and secondly, some for testifying due thankfulness unto God, for favours received. Those sacrifices for sin, are all those, which brought with them effusion of blood, and sprinkling of the same: these all, do figure the blood of Christ, which should be  shed, for the forgiveness of sins, and this is clearly set down and proved by the author to the Heb: Now the sacrifices that were offered, were of clean beasts, 
Heb 9.7.11.12 13.14.  signifying that Christ that was to be offered once for all, should be of absolute perfection: It were too tedious to enter into discourse of the divers particular sacrifices, for sins of Princes and Rulers, Priests and particular people, and for the whole congregation, all which did figure out Christ Iesus, who by his death, and bloodshedding, did offer himself to the father, as a perfect sacrifice well pleasing to God, for the sins of the world. Now the Altar that sanctified his offering, was his Deity, the sacrifice which he offered, was his humanity, and the Priest that offered this acceptable sacrifice, was both natures united in one person, Christ both God and man, and thus in brief as well as I can, I haue shewed you the ceremonies under the Law, which taught the Israelites the messiah to come.  Philip, 
And what Law else, had they to direct them in holy life, religiously towards God, and in iustice towards man?  George, 
I haue shewed you before, that they had judicial laws, for their civill government. And also the moral law, which is a perfect rule of righteousness, which no mere man did ever perfectly perform, but Christ the messiah,( being perfect God and perfect man) hath perfectly performed it for all penitent believers. And this he did, first, by the inherent holiness of his nature; secondly, by his active obedience of his life: thirdly, passively in his sufferings; and therefore the Law sheweth us, what we could haue done in our state of innocency, and it sheweth us what we cannot do, now in the state of corruption, and therfore it is now a schoolmaster, to drive us to Christ. Now the two resemblances of the heavenly and earthly sanctuary, are a glass for us to behold Gods glory in. The heavens resembled by the Holy of holiest, are the heavens of God, where he is most specially present: and the Holy, resembleth the Church on earth, where he is present amongst men. In which there be creatures, clean, and unclean; the clean, to represent the godly; the unclean, the wicked of conversation: and as trees, and all other creatures, differ one from another, so do the manners of men: and God made beasts, fish, and fowle, to express the affection of mens mindes, and gave liberty to beasts, fish, and fowle, to eat up one another; but to man, he gave a Iustice among themselves, and taught them a civill life, by eating of clean beasts, and forbiddeth gross behaviour in forbidding to eat unclean beasts, fishes, and fowles. This distinction of clean beasts, fishes, and fowles, from unclean; was appointed by Moses law; to distinguish the Iewes, the people of God, from the Gentiles, who were not the people of God, but Heathen. The unclean beasts forbidden, were Hogs and Dogs, coney and Hare, daw and such like: to show that we should not be like Hogs, to wallow in the mire of our unclean conversation; nor like Dogs to return to the vomit of our former impieties, but hold on in the newness of a sanctified life, nor like Conies, whose nature is to undermine: but to deal faithfully with our neighbours; that so our conversation may appear before men, as we may glorify our father which is in heaven: nor like the daw or Crow, which peereth with his eyes, for we ought not to be curious, in looking to other mens faults, but strive to mend our own, 
Math 7.  as our Saviour Christ teacheth in the gospel, Thou that spiest a mote in thy brothers eye, first pull out the beam out of thine own. And of the rest of unclean beasts, fishes and fowles, something in life is taught to be eschewed, for the lawfulness, and vnlawfulnes of eating them. Now there is no doubt, for Christ hath broken down the wall of separation, and wee may now freely use any of them. But the equity of the same law remaineth still, for the law of God, is eternal. All the clean, were such as chewed the cud, and partend the hoof; as ox, sheep, goat and Hart, and such like; to teach us that we ought always to be meditating of the workmanship of heaven and earth, and the rdemption by the son of God: painful in our vocation, as Oxen; meek as sheep; hardy as Goates under the cross of Christ; and swift to good with the Hart; that our bodies might be a clean tabernacle, holy, and undefiled, fit for the Holy of holiest to enter in; so should we be clothed with Aarons white garment of perfect justice, and in our bosom retain the precious jewel of Urim and Thummim, that is light of the knowledge of Christ, and perfection to embrace the same. Thus you see that the Law and all the Ceremonies thereof; the Tabernacle, and all the appurtenances thereof; Aarons office and attire, are all to be applied to the redemption by Christ, the equity of which laws, we in the Church of Great britain, do preach and profess, and therefore we are the true Church and succeed the true Church.  Philip, 
Well let me hear what you can say of the doctrine and Religion, taught in the Church, in the new Testament, and how it succeeds the doctrine of the Church of old, both before and under the law, and what Pastors succedes for the building of the Church vpon Christ the foundation, which must continue from his ascention into heaven unto the end of the world.  George, 
First, therefore I say that the ceremonial law vpon the coming of Christ, is disannulled, as is plain, in the 7. to the Heb: in these words, 
Heb. 7.18.19.  For the commandement that went afore, is disannulled, because of the weakness thereof; and vnprafitablenes, for the Law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope, made perfect; whereby we draw nearer unto God, for the end of the law was to bring us to Christ, by whom, we draw near unto God. Now that the Priesthood of Aaron, is changed, as also the law: look the 12 verse, the levitical and aaronical Priesthood, is utterly changed, and Christ become our high Priest, and is so for ever; and that not after the order of Aaron, but for ever after the order of Melchisedech. And his priesthood cannot pass to any other, because he endureth for ever: now as Christ is our high Priest, so he offered a sacrifice to the Father for us, in these words, both in the 40. Psal. and in the 10. to the Heb. Then said he, 
Psal. 110.4. Heb. 7.17.24.  lo I come to do thy will O God: he taketh away the first, that he may stablish the second, by the which will, we are sanctified, even by the offering of the body of Iesus Christ once made. As Christ is our eternal Priest and sacrifice, for the appeasing of the wrath of the Father, due unto us for our sins, so also he hath a perpetual care of his Church. John 17.12. and Christ is the onely Doctor and Master, whom we must hear in the Church. Deut. 18.15. Act. 3.22. Christ onely hath satisfied for vs. Mat. 20.28. and 26.28. Rom. 3.25. and many more places, Christ alone is sufficient to salvation. Act. 16.31. Christ can make to live. John 11.25. Christ is the perpetual Advocate. 1 John 1.12. Rom. 8.34. Christ is the Lord of all. Mat. 28.18. Phil. 2.9.10.11. Col. 2.10. What should I say, he is all in all, for the good of his chosen, and therefore it is a fearful ●●ing in doctrine to derogate from him in any thing; It is said in the Heb: 1.1.2. 
Heb. 1.1 2.  At sundry times, and in divers manners, God spake in the old time to our fathers by the Prophets; In these last dayes, he hath spoken unto us by his son, whom he hath made heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds. So that Moses, and all other holy builders, may be faithful builders, as servants; but Christ is the absolute Master builder of his Church; Who is the son over his own house, whose house we are, 
Heb. 3 5.6.  if we hold fast that confidence, and the rejoicing of the hope unto the end. He is the great Master and Doctor, and Master builder of his Church, as he saith to Peter, and the other Apostles, vpon this rock, will I build my Church, so that he is the builder, other builders are but his instruments.  Philip, 
And what Pastors, and builders, 
Ephe. 4.11.  did Christ sand to build his Church, unto the end of the world?  George, 
Paul to the Ephe. sheweth in these words; Christ ascended up on high, and gave gifts unto men, for the building of his Church; as some to be Apostles, some Prophets, some Evangelists, some Pastors and Teachers: I pray senior Philip mark, here are reckoned up the builders of the Church,& amongst them, your supreme ministerial head, is left out; sure if he had been ordained by Christ, the Apostles would not haue left him out, being an office of so great weight, as your Church makes him, but more of this hereafter.  Philip, 
Which of these builders, do your ministers succeed? surely, I think none of them, seing your Church began but in King Henry the 8 his reign.  George, 
Surely, our Teachers succeed them all, as they are Preachers of Gods word: our Saviour Christ and his Apostles, and the Prophets of old; were all preachers of Gods word, and in this our Pastors are their successors, but they do not succeed Christ as he is the messiah; neither do our Pastors succeed the Apostles in their apostolical office, for that dyed with them, and so did likewise the Prophets. But in breaking the bread of life, by preaching every way both in season, and out of season, and in this to haue a care of their flocks, whereof the holy Ghost hath made them overseers, herein they succeed the former preachers.  Philip, 
This is strange to me that there should be Pastors to preach, that never had calling, and never were sent to preach, I pray tell me, can any preach except he be sent?  George, 
truly indeed they cannot, For no man taketh this honor to himself, 
Heb. 5.4. John 1 6. Mat. 10.16. Rom. 8 15. Iere. 23.21.  but he that is called of God, as was Aaron, and it is said of John Baptist; There was a man sent from God: and our Saviour saith to his Apostles, Behold I sand you; and the Apostle Paul saith, How can they preach, except they be sent? And the Prophet jeremy, reproveth such, as run before they were sent.  Philip, 
Well, you say truth, and hence it is that your Ministers are no Pastors, because they cannot prove their calling to be a true calling.  George, 
Our Pastors haue a lawful calling, as they haue proved, and I myself will make it manifest anon.  Philip, 
But I pray you haue they an inward or an outward calling?  George, 
I answer they haue both.  Philip, 
An outward calling must either be immediately by the voice of Christ, as was the Apostles, or mediately by the hands of the Church.  George, 
They are called of God by the Church, for it is he that giveth Pastors,& Teachers, for the confirmation of the Saints.  Philip, 
If they be called truly, then they must derive their authority, by lawful succession from Christ and his Apostles, if they do so, let them show their descent.  George, 
The Ministers of our Church of great britain, receive Imposition of hands, in lawful manner, from lawful Bishops, endowed with lawful authority, and their calling is ordinary.  Philip, 
Your Bishops themselves, whence haue they this authority?  George, 
They received it from God, by the hands of such Bishops, as went before them.  Philip, 
But your first reformed, whence do they derive their succession?  Philip, 
I will a little speak of the first conversion of this land, and then speak some-what of those which were the Instruments, which Christ did use for its conversion,& then show the succession of our Ministers lineally, from those first converters. First, I say it is a thing clear, that our country of Great britain, received very anciently the Christian faith, as I perceive, by the book of succession, written by a learned and reverend Divine of ours, name Master Francis Mason; who hath there in, recited many Fathers and Historians, that haue written of the Brittaines receiving the Christian faith, in the very spring of the primitive Church, their names are these; first, Theodoret; and before him, Saint jerome; and before him, Saint chrysostom; and before him, Athanasius; and before him, Tertullian; and before him, Origen; and to all these,( the said M. Mason saith) agreeth that which Polidore Virgil bringeth out o Gildas, the most ancient writer of our Nation. That britain, received the faith, from the first springing of the gospel: so that at the very dawning of the day, to us th●t were in darkness, and in the shadow of death, the everlasting light appeared, and the son of righteousness did shine vpon them. The barren wilderness of britain, became a fruitful garden, and was graciously watered with the due of heaven: And thus it was in part fulfilled, which was foretold in the psalms, I will give thee the Heathen for thine inheritance, 
Psal. 2.8.  and the uttermost parts of the earth, for thy possession.  Philip, 
I haue heard that your country of Great britain, haue been anciently converted to the faith of Christ 3. times, and that by 3. Bishops of Rome; as first, by Saint Peter: secondly, by Eleutherius: thirdly, by Pope Gregory: and that Saint Peter came hither in his own person; and Eleutherius and Gregory by their Legates.  George, 
Nay, what if it be proved that the Brittaines were Christians before the Romans: our learned M. Mason saith, that your Pastors do proclaim every where, that Peter was the first founder of the Church of Rome; but when came S. Peter first to Rome? Baronius saith, in the year of Christ, 44. being the second of the Emperour Claudius. Now let us consider when our island first received the sweet Influence of the gospel; and here we will follow Gildas, who was the most ancient Historian of our Nation, and for his wisdom, was surnamed Sapience, and for his devotion, and eloquence, may well be termed, the zealous and golden mouthed Gildas: this Gildas, declareth, how those frozen islands, far remote from the visible sun, receive the glittering beams of Christ Iesus, the invisible son. In the time of Tiberius caesar, which is the more remarkable, because he professeth in the same place, that he pronounceth it vpon sure grounds, and certain knowledge. Now Tiberius died in the year of Christ, 39. according to Baronius; whereupon it followeth that the britain received the gospel five yeares at least, before either Paul or Peter came at Rome, by which it is manifest, that our first conversion, is not come from Rome.  Philip, 
Well, I think it false what you say; for britain was converted thrice by those which came from Rome, and it is the opinion of our Divines, and especially by father Parsons proved, that the Apostle S. Peter, was the first converter of the Brittaines to the Christian faith.  George, 
Well, we are now come to those which were the converters of this Nation. I know by Mr. Masons book, that some hold that S. Peter, some S. Paul, some Simon zealots, some Aristobilus, and some joseph of Arimathea, and that you amongst you hold it the best opinion, that S. Peter did first convert our Nation. It seemeth that many of the Apostolical men, were here in britain in the primitive time. But we cannot make it an Article of faith, which of them did first convert this Land, yet it is more probable, that the Apostle Paul, rather then the Apostle Peter, did first convert this Nation to the faith, or Simon of Canani, both which were Apostles, and had commission not from Peter, but from Christ immediately; and verily that S. Paul was here, is a point not without probability; for he was the Apostle to the Gentiles. In labours abundant, in perils often, and that by Sea. He was a star swiftly gliding from East to West; a herald proclaiming the acceptable day of the Lord. But we are of opinion, and think it is most probable of all, that joseph of Arimathea, who was sent hither by Philip the Apostle out of France, with ten others of his companions; and this joseph was the first that did convert our Nation to the Christian faith, and he did obtain a place here of the King, where he and his company did reside, as in a Monastery; which place to this day is called Glassenbury. This was that joseph which buried the blessed body of our Saviour Christ in his Sepulchre, in his garden. He afterward became a Preacher of the Resurrection; In Glassenbury he poured out his precious ointment, and all britain was filled with the sweetness of the Odour. Now whither he was the first Preacher in britain, we cannot define; But if he were the first, then the first converter came from Arimathea, and not from Rome, being sent by Philip, and not by S. Peter.  Philip, 
Now let us confer of the second conversion of this Nation, under Pope Elutherius, and King Lucius.  George, 
This is not to be called a conversion of our Nation, but rather a new supply of Preachers, and further propagation of the gospel. All the several orders of your Priests, let them beat their heads together, and they shall never be able to prove that the gospel and faith of Iesus Christ, was ever since wholly extirpated out of this iceland, since the first plantation in the Apostles times.  Philip, 
It may be, the faith was professed by some private Christian●, but not by the King, nor any induced by his authority; for himself, he was not a Christian, but sent unto Pope Elutherius, that by his commandement he might be made a Christian.  George, 
In that he wrote his Epistle to that purpose, you may see the motion proceeded from his own breast, and not from the Preaching of Elutherius; he was already made a Christian by the baptism of the spirit, and was desirous to be made so by the baptism of water; he had already entred himself into the school of Christ,& sought means that his whole kingdom might follow after, which argueth that his soul was sanctified with grace. It is truth by History, as it seems to me, that King Lucius did sand to Elutherius, Bishop of Rome, one Elvanus, who was brought up at Glassenbury, and who did disperse through the wide fields of britain, those first seeds of the gospel sown by joseph. It is recorded by history, that Elutherius made Elvanus Bishop of britain, and one Meduinus, who went to Rome with Elvanus, Doctor, to Preach the faith of Christ through the whole iceland; which sheweth that when they were sent ambassadors to Elutherius, they were no Novises, but profound Divines, and practised Teachers in the school of Christ, as they are termed by one of your own Historians, as Mr: Mason saith. Thus it appeareth that there were learned Preachers, which had sown the seeds of the gospel through the whole iceland, even at the time of Elutherius sending.  Philip, 
You and your Church are unthankful, and unwilling to aclowledge your obligation to Rome.  George, 
We aclowledge a singular blessing from thence d●rived unto this Nation; for Eleutherius sent Fugatius and Donatianus, otherwise called Domiranus, by whom joining with Elvanus and Meduinus, Christian Religion was advanced. Then King Lucius was baptized, and many of his people; that the druids were removed, and in their rooms Christian Preachers placed. Thus Idolatry was despoiled of her prop; and Dagon did fall down before the ark of Israell.  Philip, 
Were not all these bishoprics erected, or at least confirmed by the authority of the Bishop of Rome?  George, 
I answer; when the King desired to receive the roman laws, the Bishop returned this answer, That there were already in britain the old and new Testament, out of which by the council of his kingdom, he might take a law to govern his kingdom and people; for he was the Vicar of Christ in his own kingdom. And as he did not interpose himself in matters temporal, so neither doth it appear that he did in matters spiritual or ecclesiastical. He sent not one Preacher into britain, before he was entreated by the King. Neither do we find, that he assumed to himself any authority, in erecting of bishoprics; neither did that age ascribe it unto him, as you shall see in Mr: Masons book of succession of Bishops, where it doth more largely appear.  Philip, 
And what say you to their conversion by Austin, who was sent hither by Pope Gregory, and made Bishop of Canterbury.  George, 
He was sent I grant, but he did not lay the foundation of the Church, but built vpon another mans foundation; for there were at his arrival in britain seven Bishops, and an Archbishop, professing the Christian faith; and about 2000. monks in the Monastery of Bangor.  Philip, 
They were Brittaines, but S. Austin laid the foundation in other places of the Land.  George, 
Not so; for the Scots received the gospel even before the Preaching of Paladius, as Master Masons book will show you. The Pikts which were more Southern, received it afterward by Ninianus, a britain born; and the rest of them, inhabiting the high Northern Mountaines, and cragged cliffs, were converted by Columbus, an Irish man.  Philip, 
Yet Austin converted the English, called then the Angles.  George, 
The Angles possessed the kingdom of Northumberland and Mercia. Northumberland was converted in the dayes of King Oswal, by the ministry of Aidon a Scot. And Mercia under King Penda, who being desirous to mary the King of Northumberlands daughter, could not enjoy her but vpon this condition, That he and his people should become Christians, by which occasion he first attained to the heavenly truth, wherein he was exceedingly delighted above all earthly joys. So he was brought to Christ by means of his blessed Bride, and was baptized by Finanus, one of Aidons successors.  Philip, 
This iceland being thus divided, the Iutts which flourished in the kingdom of Kent, received the water of life first from Austin. From whom also the golden streams were derived unto the Saxons.  George, 
We aclowledge to Gods glory, that he and his, converted thousands, yet dare we not say, that they laid the first foundation in Kent. For in Canterbury, in the regal city, even when Austin arrived, there was a Christian Church, built in the time of the romans, dedicated to the memory of Saint Martin, whither Berta the queen descended from the blood royal of France, with Lathardus a Bishop her chaplain usually resorted to divine service. So it is most likely, that Lathardus the French man, had laid some stones in the foundation, before the coming of Austin, therefore is he that first laid the foundation, the converter of the kingdom of Kent, and not Austin, who came after, and built vpon the foundation formerly laid. I wish your Romish Priests would imitate Elutherius, and Gregory, and Austin, sent by him; for Elutherius did not obtrude any vpon the kingdom, but onely sent at the Kings request, and Austen, coming from Gregory, did not steal in secretly, but stayed in the iceland of Tennet, until such time as he knew the Kings pleasure; neither offered he to Preach in Kent, before the King gave him and his fellowes licence: they came not in disguised; they lurked not in corners; they brought no Bulls in their bosoms to discharge subjects, or to depose Princes. But their proceedings towards their Prince, were Christianly, honestly, and orderly. They came to plant the faith of Christ, your Priests come to supplant it. They to preach obedience, you to teach rebellion. Their gospel was a gospel of peace, you arm the subject against his sovereign, they converted people, yours pervert them. They sought to build the Church, yours seek the ruin of the Church and Common-wealth. I heartily wish them to consider, what great difference there is betwixt them, and Austin. Thus I haue breviated some part of Mr. Masons book, to show the succession of the pastours and builders of our Church, from the Apostles to Austin his time.  Philip, 
And can you show your succession from Austin, till the time of your pretended reformation?  George, 
It is a thing confessed by your own Priests and writers, that the succession of Bishops, from Austin till Cranmor, who was our first Bishop in the reformation, was a true succession, and that according to the Cannon of the Church, and also that Cranmor himself was Cannonically consecrated, and that by the command and authority of Pope Clement, in the year of our Lord and Saviour Christ. 1532. The ninth of the kalends of March, and the said Bishop Cranmor vpon the said commission from the Pope, was consecrated Arch-Bishop of Canterbury as followeth. Thomas Cranmor.  
Consecrated the 30. of March, 1533. and in the 24. of Henry the 8. by 3. Bishops, viz. 

John lincoln.  
John Exon.  
Henry Asaph.    Philip, 
Admit he were a lawful Arch-Bishop, yet he was a principal cause of all those lamentable alterations, which happened in the dayes of King Henry the 8. and Edward the 6.  George, 
do you call them lamentable? but I say they were a gracious beginning of thousands of blessings, both to the Church, and Common-wealth of England. But I pray you let me ask you one thing, haue you not heard or red, that it is the opinion of your divines, that a Bishop, being rightly ordained, he can never lose his power of being a Bishop, nor his power to ordain others.  Philip, 
Yes I know that it is their opinion, that no schism nor heresy, nor evil conversation of life, can take away his power of being a Bishop, nor his power of giving orders to others.  George, 
Then you do confess as much as I would haue you, you say right that Cranmor was a true Bishop, and that he had power to give orders to others. And according to his office he did ordain other Bishops, and they had power to ordain others accordingly. This power hath successively continued in our Church most truly according to the Cannon of the church, to this very day; for Cranmor was ordained by authority, from the Bishop of Rome, by three Popish Bishops, and he being metropolitan: by the assistance of other Bishops, did ordain other Bishops all the reign of King Henry the eight. And when the happy time came, of Gods merciful providence and goodness to this Nation, that there should be a more perfect reformation in King Edwards dayes, the Idolatrous Priesthood was taken away. Yet such Bishops as were ordained in King Henryes time, by Cranmor and other Bishops assistance, as would renounce Popery, were still Bishops in King Edwards dayes without reordination: and so likewise, some Bishops in King Edwards dayes, that turned to Popery, were received& continued Bishops in queen Maryes daies, without reordination. And also in queen Elizabeths dayes, Popish Bishops renouncing Popery, still continued Bishops, without reordination. As for example, I will name one, by name Antony kitchen, a man more fitt to be a Scullion in a kitchen then a Bishop of souls. Yet I hope God gave him repencance, because he died in the blessed time of reformation. In queen Elizabeths dayes, in the fifth year of her reign, this Antony kitchen, in King Henrys dayes was made Bishop of Landaff, kept his dignities and place in King Edwards dayes, continued the same all the reign of queen Mary: and so till the day of his death, which was in the 5. of queen Elizabeth. This me thinks should give satisfaction to the conscience of all private men in our kingdom: That the Church of great britain is a true Church of Christ, even by this mark, of which the Church of Rome doth so much glory, I mean the succession of Pastours and Bishops, for we haue a lineal succession of Bishops as well as they; and even from them, so that if theirs be good, so is ours. And therefore this should stop the mouths and stay the pens also of your wicked writers against our Church, especially of that fearful vilde Libellour. Who saith, that the Protestants haue no faith, no hope, no charity, no repentance, no justification, no Church, no alter, no sacrifice, no priests, no religion, no Christ. What should a man say to him, and the rest; Intemperat spirits that they are, they do blaspheme Christ Iesus the blessed Saviour of mankind, for in his name is our Church of England gathered. They do blaspheme his Temple and Tabernacle, which he hath pitched amongst us: even our Church and whole Religion, whereby we are knit unto God. If they of malice speak thus, then I say with Michael the archangel, the Lord rebuk them, 
Iude 9.  but if they speak of ignorance, as I hope they do; Then I say with the blessed Martyr Steven, Lord lay not this sin to their charge. 
Acts 7.60. Luk. 23.24.  Or our blessed Saviour Christ, Father forgive them, they know not what they do.  Philip, 
I will prove anon to your face, that your Bishops of England be no Bishops, but First can you prove this lineal succession of your Bishops?  George, 
I refer you for proof, to master Masons book of succession of Bishops, where you shall see the lineal descent both of the metropolitan Bishops of Canterbury and york, and other Bishops exactly proved by authentical records of ordination. But I say, this proof of our succession of persons and place were nothing, if we did not succeed in the saving Doctrine of salvation revealed by the son of God, Christ Iesus our Lord and Saviour, without the blessed truth of salvation, we should bee no better then painted Boxes in Apotcearies shops, which are without good solid matter in them, or like a faire Casket, whose jewels are gon. But thankes be to God, we succeed in that which is the essential life of a true visible Church of Christ, which is the saving Doctrine of salvation.  Philip, 
What you haue hitherto said in defence of your Bishops, to prove the lawfulness of them, is nothing, because to the very being of a Bishop: the order of Priesthood, is especially required which is not to be found in the Church of England, and therefore the want of Priesthood over-throweth the very essence of your Bishops.  George, 
I answer if you mean no more by Priests, then the holy Ghost doth by Presbyter, that is, the minister of the new Testament, then we profess, and are ready to prove that our Bishops and Ministers are such, as they are called, in the book of Common prayers, and form of ordering, because they receive in their ordination, authority to preach the word of God, and to administer the holy Sacraments. Secondly, if by Priests, you mean sacrificing Priests, and would expound yourselves of spiritual sacrifices; then this name as it belongs to all Christians, so it may be applied to the Ministers, but if you mean by a priest, a sacrificer unto God, for the quick and the dead; whereby the Ministers of the new Testament are Priests properly: and in the Sacrament, he offers Christs body and blood to God the father, really, properly, or bodily for the remission of sins. This Priesthood, and your Masses, for the quick and the dead, the Church of England condemneth as blasphemous, false, and dangerous deceits. The Church of England teacheth thus according to the Scriptures; viz. the offering of Christ, once made, is that perfect redemption, propitiation and satisfaction for all the sins of the whole world, both original and actual, and there is no other satisfaction, but that alone once made: And that Christ offered himself but once, look Heb. 9 15. and verse 10. and that Christ is the onely Priest, having an eternal priesthood, which cannot pass from him to any other, look Heb. 7.24.25. And thus I haue proved our Church, by your mark of succession, both of place and persons, to be a true Church of Christ; but principally by our mark, which is infallible, that is succession of doctrine. Now for our succession of Bishops from King Henry the 8. till this day; It cannot with honesty be denied, as I haue before declared, and is confessed in general by one of yours, whose name is Cudsemius, who came into England in the year of our Lord, 1608. to observe the state of our Church, and the orders of our universities; concerning the state saith he, of ●he Calvinian seat in England, it so standeth, that it may either endure long, or be changed suddenly in a trice: In regard of the catholic order therein, a perpetual line of their Bishops, and the lawful succession of Pastors, received from the Church. Behold he confesseth we haue the catholic order. Secondly, a perpetual line of Bishops. Thirdly, a lawful succession of Pastors, and that derived from the Church: But withall I would haue you to know, that though our Bishops and Pastors received it from the Church of Rome, yet with a double difference. For first, Cranmor and the rest received their orders from Popish Bishops, in a Popish manner, defiled with many popish pollutions; but when it pleased God to open their eyes, they pared away the pollutions, and retaining that which was good, delivered it to posterity. So our Pastors succeed yours in their orders not simply, but to far as they are agreeable to the Scriptures, for the man of sin did sit in the Temple of God; and antichrist had usurped the chair of Christ, even in this kingdom, so that then good things& bad were mingled together. Therefore in that which yours received from Christ, our Pastors willingly succeed them. In that which your Bishops received from Antichrist, ours do renounce and disclaim. Secondly, Cranmor and the rest, received shells of succession, without carnels of true doctrine: for though your Church did give power to preach the truth, yet being bewitched with Antichrist in many things, it did not reveal the truth: but when God by the scriptures revealed it unto them, they both preached it themselves, and commended it to posterity. Neither was this by schism to leap out of the Church, but out of corruption in the Church; even as the wheat carnell, when it is cleansed, leapeth not out of the barn, but out of the chaff.  Philip, 
Well Seiniour George: haue you ended the succession of your Bishops.  George, 
Yes surely, and I think in such a reasonable manner, in a weak measure,( yet truly according to the word of God) as may give satisfaction to godly mindes. That our Church of Great britain, is a true Church of Christ, and that none without the sin of schism, being in the precincts thereof, may separate from it.  Philip, 
Time hath brought us now, to our Church, the Church of Rome, which is the true Mother Church; as appeareth by this mark, which never wanted a true succession of Popes and Bishops, since the Apostles times, and especially, since the Apostle S. Peter was their Pope and Bishop, about the space of 25 yeares.  George, 
From whence do you derive your succession of Bishops and Pastors?  Philip, 
From S. Peter the Apostle, for he is the fountain of all spiritual jurisdiction, which I will prove by the divine law of Christ himself.  George, 
You, nor all the pack of your Iesuites, is never able to conclude this by law divine, I pray let me hear your proof, that Peter was invested in this right, by divine law.  Philip, 
The Scripture is full of proofs and testimonies, declaring both his lawful authority, and his due execution thereof. First, for his authority, the promise of the keys, and the commission of feeding the sheep doth prove it directly. First, for the promise of the keys; These words declare, which our Saviour Christ spake to Peter, I will give thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven; 
Mat. 16.19.  Christ gave him not one, but two keys, viz. the key of knowledge, and the key of power. First, by the key of knowledge, he was able to open all Scripture and controversies of Religion: Secondly, he had the key of power, and this is of Order and jurisdiction: by this key, he was able to ordain Bishops and Pastors of the Church; and again to lock them out of the ministery, by deposing and degrading as occasion required; by the key of jurisdiction, he might open and shut both the outward court, by excommunications, absolution, dispensation, calling general counsels &c. and the court of conscience, by forgiving and retaining sins. In a word, in these keys, all ecclesiastical power was comprehended, and given to Peter.  George, 
And is this jurisdiction of Peter, and of his supposed successors a ground and foundation of your religion?  Philip, 

verse 8.  Yes surely, for our Saviour saith, Vpon this rock will I build my Church.  George, 
I will make a little preamble before I come to dispute, and discuss these points. This is our happiness in our Church, that although satan, hath greatly prevailed with us, that many of our Pastours, Governors, and people, haue run into scandal to the great grief of the godly of our religion, by an ungodly, and dissolute, and corrupted course of life, which haue caused our enemies to blaspheme our holy religion: Yet he hath not prevailed, since the time of our happy and blessed reformation, to be a lying spirit in the mouths of our Pastours and Prophets: and if at any time he hath prevailed with some private Ministers, to broach any dangerous error, presently he is refeled by the judicious and godly Pastours of our Church, and that by the sword of the spirit, which is the word of God, and blessed be God, our judicious and wise King, together with the subordinate civill powers under him. By the sword of Magistracy, do join with them to the suppressing of such errors, if at any time, they be publicly preached amongst vs. But such is the fearful estate of the Church of Rome, through Gods just judgement, that satan hath prevailed to be a lying spirit, in the mouths of the most of their Pastours, and that for many hundred of yeares together. And therefore I would wish you signor Philip, and all private men, to try by the blessed and infallible touch-stone of the written word of God, the spirit of the Church, whither it be of God or not. For you shall find, that that Church, by the Doctrine thereof, doth oppose the truth of God, revealed by his son Christ Iesus our Lord, in many grounds of saving truth, especially by this point of the supremacy of Peter, over the rest of the Apostles. And his supposed succession the Popes of Rome, over the catholic Church, and the whole World. Therefore let us seriously consider those last recited scriptures, for the proof of the Pops supremacy, out of which I say, you cannot conclude his jurisdiction.  Philip, 
mary the place which I last recited was in this words. Vpon this rock will I build my Church, which words are meant of Peter; therefore he is the rock and the foundation of the Church.  George, 
I deny that Peter is the rock of the Church, 
Reue. 11.14  but I confess that he is a rock of the Church, as the rest of the Apostles and Prophets were. For the Church is founded vpon the Doctrine of the Apostles, Iesus Christ being the head corner ston. Now I say, that both Peter, and the rest of the Apostles and Prophets, were not in their persons foundation stones, but in respect of their Doctrine and ministry, for Christ himself above, is the personal and essential foundation of the Church, and it is no better then blasphemy to make any other person; or persons to be the rock and foundation of the Church. If the Pope will needs be a rock or foundation of the Church, let him do as Peter and the rest of the Apostles, and all good Pasttours do, viz. uphold the Church by a constant preaching of wholesome and sound Doctrine, else he is not so much as a little ston in the building: But this is to hard a task for him.  Philip, 
Well, what do you say to those places of scripture I haue alleged for Peters supremacy?  George, 
I haue  told you before, that Christ the son of God, the second person in Trinity, being perfect God and man, is the foundation of the Church, and so is, and ever hath been, and ever shall be the strong foundation of the Church: the Metaphor of rock and ston, is used to show the strength and everlasting continuance of this, building, the Apostles and Prophets, and all faithful teachers, are all by their pure and uncorrupted Doctrine ministerial foundations of this building, and all faithful Christians are stones of this building: but Iesus Christ is the head corner ston, 
1 Pet. 2.5. 1 Pet. 2 6.7. Act. 4.11.  which the whole frame of the Church in all ages, did rest vpon. Now I will come to the text you last alleged: There was a question there propsed by Christ, to all his Apostles, and not to Peter alone, whom saith our Saviour, say ye that I am? This question was answered by Peter, in the name of all the rest: Thou art the son of the living God. whereupon in the 18: verse saith our Saviour, vpon this rock will I build my Church. Now your Church doth understand it of Peter, and ours, vpon the object of Peter and the other Apostles faith, which was Christ to bee the Son of the living God. Now considering that the Apostle hath said, as I haue before related; that other foundation can no man lay, then that which is laid, which is Iesus Christ, and he being in many places of scriptures called the head corner ston of the Church, and the foundation of the Church; Then I marvel the Church of Rome, dare interpret it the person of Peter and his successors: do they not see they make our Saviour an unperfect rock and foundation of the Church, when they add to him the person of Peter, and his supposed successors as a supply?  Philip, 
Well, to the other words of our Saviour, whom say ye that I am? This question was answered by Peter in these words, Thou art Christ the son of the living God: our Saviour telleth Peter that he was happy, and in the 18: verse, thou art Peter, and vpon this rock will I build my Church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. And I will give thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth, shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt lose on earth, shal be loosed in heaven. These words do show that Peter had a greater jurisdiction and power then all the other Apostles, and therefore he had a supremacy above them all.  George, 
I answer that the keys were given to the rest of the Apostles as well as to Peter; for the question being proposed by our Saviour, whom say ye that I? am the answer was made by Peter, thou art Christ the son of the living God. whereupon Mr: Mason saith, that S. Austin observed that Peter alone made answer for all the Apostles: and his observation is according to the scriptures, which testifieth that Peter before this time had answered in the name of them all. We beleeue and know that thou art the Christ the son of the living God. Now as Peter answereth one for all, so Christ said to Peter, 
John 6.69.  and in him to them all. I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven. Thus the Fathers interpret the place, as Austin, Peter received the keys together with them all;& jerom, they al receive the keys;& Origen, the keys were common to al;& hilary, they obtained the keys of the kingdom of heaven; and Ambrose; what is said to Peter, is said to the Apostles. This consent of the Fathers, should overbalance your opinion against the counsel of Trent. indeed your Priests and jesuits, make the World beleeue that you will be judged by the Fathers; But when it cometh to the trial, your Priests forsake them. The Fathers must be pretended for a fashion: but your holy father the Pope of Rome, is the very needle and compass, whereby you sail. I might further reason with you by master Masons book; where it is proved both by scriptures, and by Fathers, and by your own writers, that the rest of the Apostles received their jurisdiction immediately from Christ, and not from Peter; But I will give you some short and invincible arguments to show you, that the rest of the Apostles had equal power, with the Apostle Saint Peter.  Philip. 
Come on I pray let me hear them, me thinks, you should not dare to do this, that you do, being so simplo a man.  George, 
I pray God that I may be truly simplo and innocent in the Lords cause without deceit. Our Saviour Christ after his ascension gave gifts unto men, for the repairing of the Saints, by the work of the Ministry, and Saint Paul nameth their Offices; which were some Apostles, some Prophets, some Evangelists, some Pastors and Teachers. I marvel, 
Ephe. 4.11.  Paul in this place left out the Vicar general; he that is the ministerial head,& Christs Deputy of the catholic Church: Why did he not mention him in this place, it being so fitting, if there had been any such great office? Sure here it was meet, that he should haue been mentioned with his gifts, fitting so great a place, this argueth, surely there is no such office, and therefore wee reject it.  
The Second reason or argument is this, Christ is perfect God together with the Father, and the Holy Ghost; and so he hath Vice-gerents, to govern the world; as namely, Kings and Princes, and they are his Instruments, for he saith, by me Kings reign, and decree Iustice: but Christ is also a Mediator of his redeemed ones; a King of his Church and chosen ones: and in this office, he hath neither fellow nor deputy. For none is capable of this office: if he should haue a fellow, as you in your Religion, make your Popes to be, he should be then an unperfect Mediator, and he can haue no Deputy; for what man can goody capable of his offices, to do in the room and stead of Christ, that which he doth? because his works, are works of a Mediator, which are compound works, arising of the effects of his two natures, concurring in one, and the same action, both from his Godhead, and from his manhood, and therefore to the effecting of this work, there must necessary be required an infinite power, which far exceeds the strength of any created nature. The third reason, may be drawn from his blessed promise, of his blessed presence, Christ saith all power is given unto me in heaven and on earth. go therefore, saith he to the Apostles, and teach all Nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, son, and Holy Ghost, teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I haue commanded you: which is else where, commanded by other phrases; as feeding his sheep, and to the work of feeding his sheep, and teaching, and baptizing. In the last verse, he saith, lo I am with you, to the end of the world; and else he saith, where 2. or 3. are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them. Now seeing he is present in especial manner by promise, what need he to haue a Deputy, of an universal jurisdiction, to supply his absence. Ergo, there is no such jurisdiction nor supremacy given to Peter, and his supposed successors the Popes. Nay in the exercise of the keys of binding and losing, and excommunications, the Pastors and Church are but his Instruments, and he himself the principal agent. The 4. argument is this, when the sons of Zebedeus sued unto Christ for the greatest rooms of honour in his kingdom, thinking he should be an earthly King, Christ answereth them, Ye know, that the Lords of the Gentiles haue dominion, and they that are great, exercise authority over them, but it shall not be so with you: Will you hear what M. Perkins saith out of an ancient Father, speaking against one of your Popes, Eugenius by name; the Father was Saint Bernard, who applied these words to Pope Eugenius, It is plain, saith Bernard, that here dominion is forbidden the Apostles. go to then, dare if you will, to take vpon you ruling an Apostleship; or in your Apostleship, rule or dominion: if you will haue both alike, you shall loose both, otherwise you must not think yourself exempted from the number of them, of whom the Lord complaineth thus, they haue reigned, but not of me: they haue been, but I haue not known them. It is clear by that which hath been said, that Peter the Apostle had no power of jurisdiction over the rest of the Apostles; nor over the catholic Church, no further then the rest of the Apostles had; for they all had equally authority immediately from Christ, to preach, and baptize all nations. Your learned cardinal Bellarmine himself, doth confess that all the Apostles receive their jurisdiction immediately from Christ, and therefore not from S. Peter.  Philip, 
We confess that all receive the keys, but Christ gave them Peter immediately, to the rest by Peter. So all power both of order, and jurisdiction proceeded from Peter.  George, 
But your learned cardinal by four arguments proveth, that they all received their jurisdiction immediately from Christ; First he proveth it by these words of Christ. As my father sent me, so I sand you; which exposition he strengtheneth by the authorities of Chrysostom, Theophylact, cyril, and Cyprian. By the evidence whereof, he affirmeth that the same things were given to the Apostles, by these words; I sand you, which was promised to Peter by these words. I will give thee the keys, and after delivered by these words; feed my sheep: And addeth, it is clear that by these; I will give thee the keys: and by this saying, feed my sheep; there is understood a most full jurisdiction even in the outward court. Secondly, he proveth it by mathias, who was neither elect by the Apostles, nor received any authority by them: But being elected by God, was presently accounted amongst the Apostles; and verily saith he; If all the Apostles had their jurisdiction from Peter, that should haue been manifested most of all in mathias. Thirdly, he proveth it by Saint Paul; who professeth that he had his jurisdiction from Christ, and thence confirmeth his Apostle-ship; 
Gala. 1.1. verse 15.  for he saith, Paul an Apostle, not of man, nor by man, but by Iesus Christ. Gal: 1.1. verse 15. And that he might declare that he received no authority from Peter, or any other Apostle, he saith; When it pleased God which had separated me from my mothers womb: and called me by his grace, to reveal his son in me, that I should preach him among the gentiles. immediately I communicated not with flesh and blood; neither, came I again to jerusalem, to them which were Apostles before me. But I went into Arabia, and turned again to Damascus, then after 3. yeares I came again to jerusalem, to visit Peter. And again he saith; To me those that seemed to be some-thing, conferred nothing. Fourthly and lastly, he proveth it, because the Apostles were made onely by Christ, and yet had jurisdiction; As appeareth. First, by Saint Paul, Excommunicating the Corinthians. Secondly, by the same Paul, making ecclesiastical laws. Thirdly, because the apostolic dignity, is the highest dignity in the Church; wherefore it is evident, that the rest of the Apostles received not their power of jurisdiction from Peter, but from Christ. Thus you may see what a dangerous thing it is to receive Articles of faith from the Church of Rome; yea, though they seem to produce them out of scripture. Much more when shee urgeth articles of faith of her own hatching without scripture. Therefore we that are private men, had need to be careful to try all things, and keep that which is good; as the Apostle adviseth, least we be deceived.  Philip, 
I do not think that Bellarmin did say all this against the jurisdiction of Peter.  George, 
I refer you to Master Masons book of succession, the 4. book: the 149. page. where you shall in the margin see Bellarmines book cited for the proof thereof. But let us proceed; admit that Peter had such a prerogative by the divine law of Christ, what is that to the Pope?  Philip, 
I answer that the Pope is the successor of Peter; Therefore what power soever belongeth to S. Peter; doth so to the Pope.  George, 
Was not S. Peter an Apostle? Can there be succession in the Apostle-shipe?  Philip, 
Our Doctor Stapleton teacheth, that of the Apostle-ship there is no succession.  George, 
Then the Pope doth ill, to adorn himself with apostolic titles; his Sea apostolic, his legate apostolic, his Pardon apostolic, his seal apostolic, his Bull Apostalque, and all Apostalique. Thus you see by his lying titles, what manner of head he is of the catholic Church; what a misery is this to the Church? Yea, his office is an Apostle ship, Causes must be heard by his Apostle-ship; Weighty matters must be reserved to his Apostle-ship; Bishops must visit the Threshold of the Apostles, unless they be dispensed withall, by the Apostles, and that is by the Pope. I will say no more, what Master Masons book relates of his wicked titles, but this I will say out of his book; that we hope, God will raise such Angels in our Church, as he was in the Church of Ephesus: Of whom it is written, that he had tried them; who say they are Apostles and are not, and had found them liars. Before we proceed any further in reasoning about the power of the Pope, I will show you wherein the Bishops and Pastours do succeed the Apostles, and wherein they do not. For this I would haue you consider with me, that in the Apostles, some things were extraordinary, and some things ordinary. They had 4. Extraordinary prerogatives. First, they were Immediately called by Christ himself. Secondly, they had an unlimited commission, to teach and baptize all nations. Thirdly, they had an infallible direction by the Spirit, both in preaching and in writing that they could not err. Fourthly, they had power to work miracles. All which were necessary for the first planting of Churches, but were not all conveyed to posterity by succession. Other things they had, which were necessary for the Church in all future ages; in which they had successors. As first, they had power to minister the word and Sacraments; wherein every private Minister succeeded them. Secondly, they ordained ministers, executed censures, and other things belonging to the government of the Church, wherein every Bishop succeeded them; so that in the latter, the rest had successors as well as Peter. In the former, the rest of the Apostles had no successors: no more had Peter.  Philip, 
Well, whatsoever you haue said, I will prove in Peters practices, his Iurisdicton above the other Apostles, and the Pope hath succeeded Peter, in the exercise of his supremacy ever since; That Peter had jurisdiction more then the other Apostles, is manifest by the third Synod, held at jerusalem, in the year of Christ 51. Where indeed Saint Peter shewed himself. For he spake first and last, and S. james, and all the rest yielded to his sentence.  George, 
Not one of all these points is true but false, I pray observe, that Peter spoken not first, is clear by these words; when there had been much disputation, Peter rose up and said; and that he spake not last, 
Act. 15.7. verse 12.13.& 20.  appeareth also. For the text mentioneth no speech of his but one; after him spoken Paul and Barnabas: and then Saint james; and the counsel concluded the matter according to the word of Saint james, yea, according to a special point, not mentioned by Saint Peter; neither were the acts of the counsel set out in the name of Peter, but a synodal Epistle was sent from them all; neither did Saint Peter subscribe unto it; I Peter, the Vicar of Christ, the Prince of the Apostles, the visible head, and ordinary Pastor of the Church; but he was onely put in amongst the rest, in these words; It seemeth good unto the holy Ghost and unto vs. Where is now his supreme authority? 
verse 28.  If ever he should haue challenged it, this had been the time; this was the place: especially seeing he was present, not by his legate, but in his own person. If now he had challenged it; his successors for ever might quietly haue enjoyed it. What did he mean thus to forget himself, and to prejudice posterity? And as the apostolical Synods received not their authority from him, so neither did the Apostles themselves, severally considered; as is evident in Saint paul, excommunicating the incestuous Corinthian; see by what authority he did it, 
1 Cor. 5.3.  I verily saith Saint Paul, as absent in body, but present in spirit, haue determined already as though I were present, that he that hath so done this deed in the name of the Lord Iesus Christ, you being gathered together, and my spirit with you, with the power of the Lord Iesus Christ bee delivered unto satan; He saith not the spirit of Saint Peter: but my spirit; so that your visible head, had neither hand nor foot in this action. Saint Paul acknowledgeth neither subordination unto himself, nor derivation of authority from him. And as he had jurisdiction, so had Timothy& Titus, to receive accusations, and to command them not to teach any other Doctrine; If they did, to stop their mouths. 
1 Tim. 5.19. 1 Tim. 2 3. Titu. 5.1.11.  All which places, are to be expounded of judicial proceeding in the consistory, and argue a jurisdiction in Titus and Timothy, which so far as we can learn, they received from Saint Paul, and not from Saint Peter; Wherefore we conclude, that Saint Peter was not the onely fountain under Christ, of spiritual jurisdiction by the Law of God; but the twelve Apostles, were twelve fountains, all equally derived from Christ Iesus, the fountain of fountains; but that is nothing to the Pope: If Peter had such prerogative by divine law.  Philip, 
I tell you the Pope succeeded Peter, not as he is an Apostle, but as he is the ordinary Pastor of the Church.  George, 
Then he succeeded not Peter in all his right, but haue not other Apostles successors also?  Philip, 
No, for theit authority was extraordinary, and therefore temporary and died with themselves, but his ordinary; and therefore perpetual, and liveth in his successors.  George, 
I haue shewed you, what was extraordinary in the Apostles, and dyed with them; and what was ordinary and liveth with their successors.  Philip, 
This I know, that the Bishop of Rome succeedeth Peter in the government of the Church.  George, 
You dare not say that this power in Peter was extraordinary, for then it could not go by succession; and if it were ordinary in Peter; Why not in the rest, seeing as hath been proved? Christ gave as large a commision in as ample words to the rest, as to Peter: but if we should feign that Peter had such monarchical jurisdiction; By what Law shall the Pope succeed him in it?  Philip, 
The succession of the Bishop of Rome, into the popedom of Peter, is of Christs Institution; and therefore by Law Divine.  George, 
Of Christs institution, where, or when? If you allege these words, feed my sheep; they were spoken onely to Peter, yet so that the substance of the precept was not proper to him, but common to all. And if I should demand of you wherewith should Peter feed the sheep and lambs of Christ? Is it not with the sweet pasture of the Word of God? And the Commission given to all the Apostles; to t●ach and baptize all Nations; What should they teach all Nations? Was it not the same word of God, expressed in these words. Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I haue commanded you? Are not the words of Christ revealed in the Scriptures? The keys of the kingdom of heaven which were delivered to all the Apostles, by which they should lock out all impenitent sinners, and open by their ministry of the same words, the door of eternal life to all believers and true penitent sinners, and do they not all by the ministry of the same word, bind all unrepentant and unbelieving sinners, unto the eternal punishment, and also by the same word, ministerially absolve and loose the believers, and true penitent sinners, from all their sins and punishments due? This sheweth the substance of these words, and feed my sheep; is common to all the Apostles, but if we should imagine that Christ did institute a Monarchy personally in Peter, how cometh it to be local? this certainly can not be Christs institution, because he nameth no place.  Philip, 
It was in Peters power never to haue chosen to himself any particular Sea, and then after his death, neither the Bishop of Rome, nor the Bishop of Antioch had succeeded, but he whom the Church had chosen.  George, 
Then you make it local by Peters choice, and not by the law of Christ.  Philip, 
Was not Peter Bishop of Rome?  George, 
So men say, but you cannot prove it by the law of Christ, which is the divine law of God.  Philip, 
Will you deny a history so famously recorded by Eusebius, and other ancient Authors?  George, 
We do not deny the history, but must wee make humane histories, the ground of our faith? If the history be true, which yet I take to be untrue, if it say that Peter was Bishop of Rome, about 25. yeares, as your Church makes the world beleeue: for Peter was an Apostle, and his commission with the rest of the Apostles was to preach, teach, and baptize all nations, and had no commission to fix himself in any Sea, or bishopric, for my own part, I haue no skill to look into histories, for I haue no gift of tongues, neither haue I any translated into our vulgar; but a learned judicious Pastor of ours, hath said in his public ministry, that those histories which are alleged by your men, were written about 300 yeares after Peters time, and not by any Author that lived in his time. Therefore those historians might haue false relations, and therefore a fearful thing it is, for the Church of Rome to draw out of those histories, articles to serve their own turn, and so impose them vpon the people of God, as grounds and principles for them to rely their faith vpon: therefore senior Phillip, I would hearty wish you, and all private men to be careful of such doctrines, and articles of faith, which cannot be proved by the word of faith, which is the Scriptures; though what-soever Church, or man, or men, of what note or eminency soever, they be in the Church, or in the world, that will urge them vpon you: For I remember a saying of S. Austin, worthy of special note, and it is that all articles of faith necessary to be believed, are plainly set down in the Scripture; but of Peter being a Bishop, and Bishop of Rome, Nay, that he ever came at Rome, is neither plainly set down, nor concluded thence by necessary consequence.  Philip, 
It was in Peters power to haue continued at Antioch, and then without doubt, the Bishop of Antioch, had been his successor, but because he translated his chair fixed it at Rome, and there died, thence it comes to pass, that the Bishop of Rome succeeded him.  George, 
If the succession of place, depend vpon the fixing of S. Peters chair at the place of Rome, what shall be said of ●●e Popes, which kept at Avinion, in France, the space of 70 yeares, as your own writers testify, and all that time, never came at Rome. Now this is to build vpon the fact of S. Peter, and not vpon the law of God; a fearful case, that the Churches faith, must depend vpon such fond devices, that cannot be proved by the word of God. I say that Rome cannot prove by any promise of Christ, that the Church and truth of God, should be perpetually fixed there, if ever there were any Church that might allege succession of place; it was jerusalem: for the Scripture saith thereof. The Lord will dwell for ever in this Temple, 
● Chron. 33. ●. 5. ●sal. 132. ●2. 13.14. ● Psal. 78. ●erse 69.  and again I haue chosen and sanctified this house, that my name may be there for ever: but the promise is conditional, If thy children will keep my covenant, and my testimonies that I shall teach them: and therefore when the Prophets reproved them, and the Priests alleged nothing else but this, The Temple, the Temple, the Temple of the Lord; See what the Lord said in answer to them: 
●erem. 7.4.26.  Trust not in lying words, saying, the Temple of the Lord, but amend your ways and your works. So Rome was once a holy City, but the Lord is almost utterly departed from it, for their gross errors, and wickedness. Our Saviour Christ saith, Desolation shall sit in the holy place; And the Apostle Paul saith, 
●ath. 24.15.  That Antichrist shall sit in the Temple of God: what should we trouble ourselves any further about so palpable an error? If Pastors haue possessed a place never so long; if they haue not the life of a true Church, it is nothing, and this life is sound doctrine.  Philip, 
Well, let us come now to our Church, to try it by our mark of succession of Pastors and Bishops.  George, 
Well, you do hold that the Popes are Peters successors, and that they haue derived unto them, the supremacy& chief jurisdiction of the catholic Church, and thereupon they are the head, and foundation of the Church, and all this is derived unto them from Peter, the head and Prince of the Apostles.  Philip, 
All these points, we hold to be certainly true.  George, 
How weakly you and your Church, do maintain the supremacy of Peter, by the Scriptures; let God, and all good men judge;& as for Peters being a Bishop, or his ever being at Rome, or that the Popes the first of them, were his successors: not one of these points, you( nor any of your Priests for you) are able to prove them by one word of Scripture, and yet every one that will be saved, must hold them as Articles of faith, and confidently beleeue them, by your Religion: but now for the succession of the Popes in the supremacy, and jurisdiction of S. Peter, there is one history, that will overthrow all the histories they do bring to prove it.  Philip, 
Alas poor man, you are to weak of brain, and to simplo to be a good historian; But let me hear the story?  George, 
I confess I haue no skill in story, but I will allege it out of an author that had skill, and that had skill to confute your errors; but it is so, that I will first ask you a buestion or two: which do you think is greater in jurisdiction and power, an Apostle or a Bishop?  Philip, 
Sure an Apostle is greatest, both of jurisdiction and Power.  George, 
And is the Pope any more then a Bishop?  Philip, 
No, he is but a Bishop, but he is the prime Bishop of all others in the World, and none in the world, did ever enter into the office of a minister in the catholic Church, either in the highest or inferior places, since the death of S. Peter, but by the authority of the Popes, his successors; neither did or ought to exercise their office in the catholic Church, but by his authority.  George, 
This fancy is easily overthrown; I pray was not S. John an Apostle?  Philip, 
Yes indeed was he; but what of that?  George, 
Was he not called by Christ immediately; and had the jurisdiction of an Apostle immediately from Christ?  Philip, 
What of all this if we grant unto it; what doth it prejudice us, and advantage you?  George 
Thus it advantageth us, and preiudices you; For it overthroweth your Popes supremacy. But I will ask you another question; did not Saint John exercise his Apostle-ship, which he received from Christ immediately, all the time of his life?  Philip, 
Yes no doubt of it, for all the Apostles held their office and executed the iuri●diction of their Apostle-ship, all the time of their lives; what infer you thereupon?  George, 
Then thus I conclude, that after Peters death, there was long a greater jurisdiction in the Church; then Peter conferr●d vpon his supposed successors the Popes, for they were but Bishops as you haue confessed; and the Apostle Saint John lived long after Peter the Apostles death, and exercised his Apostle st●ps juridiction during his life. Saint John the Apostle of Christ( as Saint jerom saith and witnesseth unto us) lived 68. yeares after the passion of Christ; and consequently dyed in the year of Christ, 101. Which according unto Baronius, one of your own writers, was in the ninth year of Clement, who was the third Pope after Peter. Now Saint John by this account, used his jurisdiction of Apostle-shipe, which was the greatest, spiritual jurisdiction under Christ. All the time of Linus and Cletus, and to the ninth year of Clement; which plainly overthroweth your opinion; that the Popes were the greatest in jurisdiction over the catholic Church after Peters death. But let me ask you a question, did S. John lose his Apostle-ship after the death of Saint Peter, and was glad to light his candle again from Linus, and after his death, from Cletus; and after his, from Clements? If this be so, then there was after the death of Christ whilst an Apostle lived, a greater jurisdiction in the Church, then the jurisdiction of an Apostle, which cannot be. Tell me signior Philip, did Saint John renew his apostolical jurisdiction from the grant of Linus, Cletus, and Clement? Tell me, why do you not tell me? Me thinks you stand as one holding a mad dog by the ears, which neither knows how to hold him fast, nor yet to let him go.  Philip, 
Though I cannot answer it, yet there are of our religion which can confute and confounded you in this point, and him from whom you had it.  George, 
I know there are of your Religion which will endeavour to do it, if they can; but alas they cannot. By sophistry they w●ll endeavour to make truth falsehood; but truth cannot be ashamed nor overthrown, with all the devices of sophistry they can device: No, not if the devil the father of lies consult with them.  Philip, 
Well, now we come to the succession of Bishops and Pastors in the Church; I will prove the Church of Rome, to be a true Church of God; and this mark for the Church of Rome, hath had a true lineal succession of Bishops from the Apostle S. Peter, even till this very day. For the Pope of Rome that now is: hath in a true line succeeded them all; therefore the Church of Rome that now is, is the true Church of God. Therefore all Christians that will be saved, must submit themselves unto her, to be their spiritual mother.  George, 
I know you all brag of suceession of place and persons, but as for succession of Doctrine, which is the life of a true Church, what is become of that? I do grieve for that, because I cannot find that in the Church of Rome; for that is almost quiter extinguished: and that little which remaineth, is so obscured by devilish humane inventions, that I can scarce perceive any life in her. But for your brags of place and persons, it is but as the shell of a nut, when the devilish worms haue eat out the kernel; or as a faire Casket, when the jewels are stolen; but come, Who was Peters immediate successor?  Philip, 
Why that was Pope Linus, who was Pope of Rome next unto S. Peter.  George, 
But you cannot prove this by Peters Doctrine in his Epistles, nor in the Apostles Acts, nor in the Epistles of any of the other Apostles; therefore not to be believed as an Article of faith, and undoubted truth. And as for the histories of it, they are uncertain; for the Popes decrees say, Clement was his next successor; and Eusebus say, Linus. And as it is uncertain which was his first successor, so it is uncertain, when Peter came first to Rome. For Orosius saith, ●eter came to Rome in the beginning of Claudius reign: And Ierem, in the second year, others in the fourth year, others in the 13. year; and Damasus saith, he came thither in Ner●es raig●e. So that there is no certainty in that, which they make an undoubted principle. There was once a Woman-Pope, whose name properly was Gilberta, a Dutch woman of Ments or Maguntia, which is contrary to the Scripture; which permitteth not a Woman to bear rule in the Church of God. If she were, as the histories report, Pope, then they were no Popes and Pastors which she did ordain; and their orders were mere Nullities. Then what can all them, that haue succeeded her since, be; but mere Lay-men? For she being a Woman, could not be Pope or Bishop: For shee was uncapable, either to receive or give orders. So having nothing to give in matter of orders, those which she ordained received nothing; so all the Bishops which haue succeeded lineally since her regency, had no power consequently to give orders one to another. What man of true sanctified judgement, will rely his soul vpon the belief of so dangerous an Article, that all the Popes since Peters death, were true Popes, and heads of the catholic Church?  Philip, 
But our Church doth deny, that there was any such Woman, Pope, because that histories, where such a woman Pope is recorded, were made 2 or 300. yeares since such a woman Pope should be, and therefore uncertain; and there vpon they utterly deny, that there was any such woman Pope.  George, 
I haue heard that they utterly deny that there was any such Pope, vpon the ground you speak off; but the Woman being made Pope, was name Pope John, and was in the rank and catalogue of the Popes; but now they haue sponged her out in their best endeavours. But I think they cannot but must needs haue her in the rank, or else the links of your succession will break. A learned Divine of ours saith out of your own authors, that there was in Rome a schism held 39. yeares, one Pope against another; at length the counsel of Constance, put down those false Popes; and to another gave the popedom. This must needs be granted, that during the reign of those false Popes, there was a breach in your succession. I read that in the year 1083. and 1058. and 1062. there were 2 Popes together; I read also that Benedict the 9. Silvester the 3. and Gregory the 6. were Popes all at one time. And at an other time, Benedict the 13. a Spanish Pope,& Gregory the 12. a French Pope, and John the 23. an Italian Pope, all together; what manner of succession is this, think you? Therefore it is no good mark of a visible Church, without succession of Doctrine; which is the surest and infalliblest mark. Manasses polluted the Church, and violated Iustice: and yet he succeeded good Ezechias his father; and josiah reformed the Church, and renewed the laws; yet was Grand-child to, and succeeded that wicked Manasses. The same also may happen in the succession of prelates in the Church: again, if any Church might ever allege the succession of Pastors, it was the Church of the Iewes, for it was in the house of Aaron; from Father to son, and none that was out of the same house, might ever sacrifice; besides, there was a promise made unto them, that they should continue so for ever. And indeed when the Prophets exhorted them to a reformation, they had this in their mouths: The law shall not perish from the Priests; 
Ierem 18 18. Ierem. 8 8.  nor counsel from the wise, nor the Word from the Prophets. But what saith the spirit of God unto them? Say not we are wise, &c. The Law of the Lord is with us, &c. 
Iere 23 15. Ezech. 7.26.  It is in vain that we may depend, The scribe is in vain, the wise men are ashamed; and seeing they haue rejected the word of the Lord, what wisdom is in them. And again, the Prophets prophesy lies: And the Priests bear rule, by means of them. And again, The profaning of the service of the highest is gon forth from them. And again, the Lawe shall perish from the Priests, and counsel from the Ancients. I will end with one text more: the Scribes and pharisees could boast to our Saviour Christ, That they were the seed of Abraham: I know it well, saith our saviour, 
joh. 8.33.& 44.  but the devil is your Father; as Almighty God said to the Children of Israell: thy father is an Amorite, and thy mother a Hittite. And now to draw to a conclusion, of our reasoning about succession: Me thinks by the light of natural reason, that succession of place and person, should not be a true mark of a true visible Church, without succession of true Doctrine. Take a natural reason or two, as for example: A filthy trotting jade, may succeed in one and the self same stable, in the possession of one and the self same man. A faire through pac't Gelding, to the prejudice of the owner, and them that shall use him. A wicked man oft succeedeth a good man, in one and the self same house and family, to the prejudice of the family; by his unlawful tyrannous usage. And so a wicked Magistrate, may succeed a good; as before you haue heard. But if a good Horse, faire and fat, and well pac't, succeed another good before; there is no prejudice to the Master, nor to any that haue right to use him: And if a good man succeed a good man in a f●mily, there is no hurt, but joy& comfoat to the family: For the good government is continued, the maintenance of the family is not wasted with the riotous excess, but rather increased to the joy& comfort of all. Now I say, if there do succeed in the Church, wicked Pastors, which do under the colour of personal succession, bring into the Church, poisoned Doctrine of their own inventing, whereby the poor sheep of Christ are in danger to be infected, to the loss of Gods favour in their salvation; Shall the Pastors personal succession excuse their bringing into the Church such wicked Doctrine? Or shall this personal succession excuse the people for receiving such wicked Doctrine? What man of reason will think it an excuse for either? No, no, it is the succession of sound Doctrine according to the law of God; which is the onely thing necessary for all people to look unto in succession: and therefore personal succession, is vain and wicked to be alleged without it, to bee a true mark of the visible Church of God. I will end our discourse of succession, with some memorable sayings I haue red to be in the Fathers. And first, what saith nazianzen, the succession of the Sea, hath nothing else but the name; the true, and real succession, is that of the saith. And what saith Saint basil of the Church, which defileth the Doctrine and the Sacraments. It may very well bee said, how is the faithful city become a Harlot? And Saint Ambrose, they haue not the succession of Peter, which haue not the faith of Peter. And Saint Bernard saith of the prelates of his time, those O Lord are foremost to persecute thee, that seem to hold the foremost place in the Church: It is a small matter for our Watch-men not to guide us, except they also destroy vs.  Philip, 
Let us now come to another mark of the Church visible which do you think fittest to be next unto succession, for of succession we haue ended our conference?  George, 
I do think it fittest now to confer of unity, for in our conference of succession, we haue the head of the visible Church, and therefore in course of method, it will bee most meet to come to the body of the Church, which is principally shewed in unity.  Philip, 
I am of your mind in this, and therefore let us proceed and confer vpon this mark of unity; another infallible mark of a true visible Church, in the Iudgement of our Divines, And in this you cannot possibly prove your Church to be a true Church of Christ.  George, 
Yes by this very mark, will I( God willing) prove this part of the Church in Great britain, a true Church, and yours a false Church, I mea●● the Church of Rome.  Philip, 
I marvel you will be so mad to undertake a thing so impossible, seeing you are so divided amongst yourselves into divers sects; as some of you be Calvinists, some Protestants, some Swinglians, and some Brownists and the family of love, and others; can there be a true union, where there is such a division?  George, 
If I should return the l●ke to you, what sects there be amongst you, and your Church and Religion, as I haue red and heard, it would rather be but contention in both of us, then godly edifying: but a little I will show you what sects there be in your Church, as I haue both red and heard; as that there be some Capucines, some Franciskans, some Dominicans, some Gray, some White, some black friars; as for your jesuits, and Secular Priests, what divisions and contentions there is between them, your book called the Quodlibets, doth manifestly show. It is not some division in a Church, that doth utterly destroy a Church; for then I suppose there was never any Church visible in the world, since the fall, for there was, and ever will be sects and heresies in the Church, that they that are approved may be known: and as for some divisions and contentions in the visible Church, the best may be subject unto it, seeing men are not perfect in it; As Saint Peter and Saint Paul did disagree and contend, and so did Paul and Barnabas. 
Gala. 2.11. Act. 15.39.  unity of itself, is no mark of a Church visible, without there be a unity in one head, and one body by faith and love, faith that uniteth us to Christ, and love, that uniteth the members of the church each to other; which unity was in the church of the Iewes in the wilderness, where they all agreed to make an Image of a golden calf, 
Exod. 32. 1. Math. 27.22.  they also agreed together to kill Christ, but my drift and my poor meditations haue been, how to edify you in your own marks of the church, and thereby to show you, and all ignorant Papists how cunningly the devil hath deceived your church and all people adherent to the same, by causing them to disjoin these, which are the essential, true, and infallible marks of a visible church, from those accessary marks of the church, I mean the true and public ministration of the word and sacraments, from succession, unity, antiquity, and the rest. I do purpose therefore to show you, the true union; of the which true union, we do hold, and then descend to discuss your union.  Philip, 
I perceive you are very arrogant and proud, that you will discuss our union, but run your race and proceed.  George, 
Then thus I proceed, First, I say as I haue formerly said and proved, that Christ is the head and foundation of the church, and that the church is his body. Also I haue proved that the holy Ghost, which is the spirit of God, doth unite this body the church to Christ the head, and this I proved by the 1 Cor. 12.13. and that it is his body, I proved further. 1 Cor. 10.17. and the 2 Cor. 11.2. and many more. Now the church on her part, doth unite herself unto Christ her head by faith, as appeareth in Ephe. 3.17. 
Ephe. 3.17.  in these words; He dwelleth in our hearts by faith. Now those that are properly and indeed united to Christ, by the spirit and faith, are members of the invisible church, which is properly his spiritual body. And I come now to speak of the union of the visible church of Christ, where as I haue formerly said, there must be a distinction made, between the visible and the invisible church, for the invisible church, is properly and indeed united to Christ, but the visible in all the parts thereof are united to Christ onely by outward profession. A man that makes outward profession of union with Christ, may be properly so indeed, but wee cannot certainly know it, but charitably so conceive, therefore I say that it is the outward profession, and outward preaching of Christ, to be Lord, foundation, and head of the church, that maketh the visible church: and by this external profession,& ministration of holy things, are we in the church of Great britain, united to Christ our head, and by these we hold union with al the visible parts of the church in the world. If we consider in brief the whole doctrine of our union with Christ, as first, the efficient cause thereof, Gods free election. Secondly, the effectual vocation unto the union. Thirdly, the spiritual union itself by the holy Ghost. Fourthly, the union by faith, take it as your church define faith; which is to beleeue the word written is true: or as we define a justifying faith, which is to apprehended and apply the promises of grace in Christ by faith: in all these points, both for the beginning, and the continuance of this union both with Christ our head, and also the members one with another in faith and love, we hold I say this union, as purely by our doctrine, as any Church in the World, and therefore by this mark, we are a true church of Christ.  Philip, 
We of the Church of Rome, are the true church of Christ, but ye do not hold union with our church, therefore by this mark of union, you are no true church of Christ, but heretics and schismatics.  George, 
We hold union with you so far forth, as you hold union with Christ. The church is catholic, and Christ is the head thereof. And it being catholic, is not tied to Rome. The good wheat-corne being threshed, doth fly out of the chaffie ear, but not out of the barn: even so wee fly from your chaff, and dross of false doctrine and heresy, but not out of the catholic church; and this shall suffice, to show that by this mark of unity, our church, is a true part of the visible catholic church.  Philip, 
Now I will by this mark of union prove our church to be the true church; for the Scripture saith, there shall be one shepherd and one flock, and the shepherd is the Pope, who is set up as a ministerial head, and the flock, is the whole catholic Church. And this church is but one, and is sweetly united unto this head in one faith: therefore the church of Rome, is the true catholic church, by this mark of unity.  George, 
This is my answer, First, that whereas you set up a ministerial head, which you do, you shall never prove it by Scripture. 
E●he. 4.12.  For the ministry is dispersed amongst the Pastors, and no in any one head. Secondly, I answer, by this one ministerial head, your Church did rob Christ of his sovereignty and honour, because in setting up this ministerial head, they steal things from him, proper to him alone, as the privilege to forgive sins properly, and the power to govern the whole earth, by making of laws, that shall as truly bind the conscience, as the law of God. Thirdly, for your head, why, there was sometimes 3. at once, as you haue heard, all of them striving for the popedom; therefore there was no unity, in the very head of your church. And it is clear to me, and I would to God in his mercy t'were so to you, and to all private Christians, that your Church hath set up a false head, and in many parts of their doctrine a false faith, to unite them unto this false head. And as for that one pastor that you speak of, it is Christ Iesus, the shepherd of shepherds, who is the onely proper Pastor of the catholic church, both of Iewes and Gentiles.  Philip, 
You speak falsely, for we haue set up no false head, nor no false faith, but are truly united unto a true head, and that by a true faith.  George, 
Well well, senior Phillip, as you and all private men love your own salvation, and love to free yourselves from eternal condemnation, be careful to ground yourselves truly, by a true faith vpon a true foundation, which is Christ our Saviour; and unite yourselves also by true faith, unto a true head, which is Christ alone, and none other. But I will proceed further to show you the want of union, even in the very heads of your Church. I read that about the year 886. and about the year 892. There was great dissension amongst the Popes, the heads of your Church. I pray hark what follows, I red that Pope Steven the sixth abrogated all Formosus his predecessors decrees: and after he was dead and butted, took up his body, cut of 2 fingers of his right hand, and butted him again in lay habit. I red that the following Popes, Theodorus the second, Romanus and John the 10. confirmed all Formosus his Acts. I likewise read, that after all this, Pope Sergius disannulled their Acts: and took up the body of Formosus, and cast it into the river Tiber. do you not see, What goodly unity there was here amongst your heads the Popes? I will show you the like want of unity in the whole body of your Church. It is the opinion of your Church, and I think it is true; that the whole visible Church is represented by a general council. The first Nicen council allowed Priests marriage, and the Communion in the Lords supper, in both kindes both of bread and wine. But the councells of Constance and Basil, forbade the laity the cup. And the council of Trent, forbids both the cup to the laity, and marriage to the clergy. I also read that the third counsel of Carthage, that none should be called universal Bishop: But now the council of Trent nurseth him, who shall deny the Pope of Rome, to be the head Bishop of all the World. again, I read that the general council of Constantinople over-threw Images: And I read that the second council of Nice, decreed them to be worshipped: And I red that the council of Franckefort under Charles the great, determineth it to be Idolatry; and nurseth the said Nicen council. I read also that there was a great controversy in Anno. 1476. betwixt the Franciscans and Dominican friars, touching the conception of the Virgin Mary, whither she were conceived in sin or no: the Dominicans held she was; the Franciscans the contrary: But Pope Zistus the 4. joining with the Franciscans, 4. of the other were condemned& burnt at Rome.  
Alph. de Castro. Chap. 6. holds the Pope inferior to the council, the opinion of the Iesuites &c. This day is he above the council. I read that about the Eucharist, they haue a world of differences amongst themselves; as whether Christ did consecrate when he blessed the bread and the wine, or when he said this is my body. Secondly, whether so much bread as is taken onely, be consecrated? Thirdly, whether the substance of the bread be turned to nothing, or changed into the substance of Christ? whether there be a bodily motion in the Sacrament. Whether the body of Christ, in the Sacrament can be touched? how the accidents in the sacraments are without a subject? whether the accidents can be broken, whether they can nourish? whether the water mingled with the wine, be turned into Christs blood? whence come worms in the host? Thus you see what divisions& dissensions there are, amongst you, both in your Popes councells, and several orders of Priests. Is this the unity you brag of? Sure your unity may be rather called a Conspiracy against Christ, then a unity under him. Herod and Pilate were made friends, against Christ should be crucified; and they joined in the execution of him: So all of you, whatsoever your dissensions and discords bee amongst yourselves, even in matters of faith, yet in this one main Article of your faith; that the Pope is head, and hath a supremacy over the whole Church of God; Herein you must needs concur and agree, though in my poor Iudgement, the most weakly maintained, of all other points controverced between you and vs. For this point,( as I remember) Bellarmine saith is the head of faith: and for the denial of this, all must lose their dearest blood, though they maintain Christ to be the supreme head never so purely: Iewes shall live in their bosom, even in Rome, under the Popes nose, though they utterly deny Christ: this is a fearful case, and this is a wicked union.  Philip, 
Now let us proceed to another mark, which we say, is a mark of a visible Church.  George, 
Since that we haue ended our conference about the unity of the visible Church: let us proceed to the sanctity of it, for that I think is meetest to be next treated of.  Philip, 
I am contented, and therefore as you haue begun the other marks at your Church, so begin this: and in this mark, you shall never be able to prove your Church, a Church of Christ.  George, 
Yes surely but I can, by the help of God, prove it to be a most holy Church, as holy a part of the visible Church militant, as is any visible part in the Christian world.  Philip, 
I never saw, nor reasoned with so Impotent a man: You will prove any thing for the maintaining of your heretical church; if you can; why do you not see, are you blind, that your people both magistrates and ministers, and all souls of subiects, be most vilde in ungodliness, and do express it in the wickedness of their lives?  George, 
Surely I confess with grief of heart, that the general multitude of our people, are grievously polluted with fearful sins of many kindes. But what if it might be said of us, as the Prophet Amos said of the Governors of Samaria? 
Amos 4.1.  You oppress the poor, and destroy the needy. And also, what if it might be said, of our Governors, as the Prophet Esay said? Woe unto them that decree wicked decrees, and writ greevious things: To keep back the poor from Iudgement; and to take away the Iudgement of the poor of my people, that widows may be their prey: 
Esa. 10.1.2 Zeph 3.4.  and that they may spoil the Father-lesse. Esay. 10.1.2. And what if it might be said of our Ministers and Prophets, that they are light and wicked persons, and that they haue polluted the Sanctuary? And what if the Lord should call the insensible Creatures, the heavens and the earth, as he doth by the Prophet Esaiah, to witness against us for our rebellion In these words? hear O Heavens and harken O Earth, for the Lord hath said: I haue nourished Children, and brought them up, 
Esa. 1.2.  and they haue rebelled against me. Yet wee may be a pure Church visible for all that: Because wee maintain the pure faith and Doctrine.  Philip, 
But how is the Church holy, when it consists of so vilde a crew, you yourselves in the creed, call it holy?  George, 
Surely I must be fain to catechize you in this, as I haue in the rest of our discourse. You may see how jgnorantly you haue been bread in your Religion: that you must be catechized in the marks of your own Church. They tell you that Succession, unity, sanctity and holiness and others, are marks of the visible Church: But without succession of faith and doctrine, and unity in faith and doctrine; and if the visible Church be not made holy by the true faith and doctrine, these marks are but deceitful, and may guide you to the Church; whose false wicked doctrine, will teach you rather the way to hell and everlasting destruction; then to heaven to enjoy eternal happiness and bliss.  Philip, 
Well, I pray proceed, and make no long preambles; how is the visible Church pure and holy?  George, 
I am desirous to edifye you, and resolve you in all things, to the power and understanding, God in his mercy hath given me, and therefore I am sure, that the visible Church is pure and holy in two or three respects. I should haue put this in mind, still that you keep a distinction between the Invisible and the visible Church. For the Invisible Church I haue  told you, is properly and indeed, the spiritual and mystical body of Christ: and I haue  told you how that that body is perfectly holy, pure and righteous, in the sight of God by justification: And in part holy by Sanctification in this life. Now I desire if it were possible, to speak to the capacity of the simplest amongst you, that you might not be deceived in the purity, holiness, and sanctity of the Church: and therefore now I come to the holiness of the visible Church. And I say as before, it is called holy in two or three respects. Now as I take it, the visible Church is holy; and so called first, in respect of some small remnant that be in it, that are perfectly holy before God by justification; and in part holy by sanctification, I will show you a pretty fitt Similitude, and it is this. Threshers use when they haue threshed, to put the corn before it be famned on a heap, and this heap is called corn, although the greatest part be chaff: Even so the congregation of the visible Church, is called holy, in respect of the small number of holy ones in it: even as the heap is called corn, though most of it be chaff. The denomination of the word Holy, is of the better part, and not of the greater: for the most are hypocrites and profane Dissemblers. This in my judgement is clearly proved by the Prophet Esaiah: The Churches of judah and Israell were visible Churches; of them the Prophet saith: Though the number of the Children of Israell be as the sands of the sea; yet shall but a remnant be saved. Our Saviour calleth his, but a little flock: And he saith, there be but few that walk in the narrow way to heaven. So that the Church visible, is called holy in respect of the small remnant of holy ones, which are properly mystical members of Christ: which do lie hide in the visible Church, from the eyes of men, yet seen to the eyes of God. And thus you see the first reason why the visible Church is called holy.  Philip, 
Well, seeing you haue undertaken to catechize me, let me know a second reason of it?  George, 
A second reason why the visible Church is called holy, Is, because God hath committed unto her, his holy ordinances; the Word and Sacraments. And for this cause she is called by Saint Paul, the pillar and ground of truth. 
1 Tim. 3.15  Not that shee should add unto truth, any thing that is devised by herself: but that she should uphold the truth, herein the world against the devil and wicked men, who labour to pull down the truth by their lying and deceitful Doctrines. A strong pillar in a house doth as you know, bear up the house and support it from falling in windy storms and tempestous wether: Even so, doth the visible Church the truth of God, against the windy storms of heretical Doctrine: and so against the tempestuous lightnings, fiery persecutions by wicked enemies of the truth, except she bee negligent of her duty. A third reason why the visible Church of God is called holy, is, because she spreadeth abroad the holy truth to the World: And this she doth by two ways; First, by reading it to the world, and by this she testifieth as a witness, that it is the truth of God. Secondly, she speaketh Gods word by explication: and thus she delivereth the true sense of the word of truth, to the better informing of the Iudgement of the people. And thus also by application, she either converteth to salvation, or else convinceth the consciences of men to their condemnation. The fourth reason, why the visible Church is called holy; is the external profession of holynes, and that according to the rule of the holy Word of truth, revealed in the scriptures to the Church.  Philip, 
Now let me see, whether the Church of great britain may be called holy by these reasons?  George, 
For the first reason, that the visible Church is called holy, for the small number of those, that bee truly holy in it; I am assuredly persuaded, that the Lord affecting so his own ordinances, which are the preaching of the Word, and administration of his Sacraments, which haue been purely performed, by this our Church of great britain this many yeares, since our happy time of reformation; that he hath, and daily doth confer grace in the hearts of such, as he hath ordained to salvation: and that many multitudes, though not the greatest; which haue received the first fruits of their Inheritance; and are now translated from hence, having all tears wiped from their eyes, are now in rest in their souls, at the right hand of God, with Christ Iesus their head in glory. I am also persuaded, so long as God in mercy to this our Nation, shall hold open the book of the gospel of his dear son; that it may be preached, red, and taught, that many more, from time to time, will be brought to faith and repentance,& consequently to eternal happiness and bliss of soul& body for ever; which God in mercy grant unto vs. And thus our Church is holy by the first reason.  
Now I come to the second reason, why the visible Church is called holy, which is because God hath entrusted her, and committed unto her keeping, his holy ordinances: And for this cause, she is called the pillar& ground of truth. Now I say, by this reason also, is this our national and particular church of great britain most excellently holy. I beseech you to consider it, for she hath, and doth faithfully discharge the trust reposed in her: For she suffereth it not to bee corrupted, by false additions, neither doth she suffer it to be diminished by repealing any statute, or law of Gods holy Scriptures, which he hath committed unto her: but faithfully keepeth it perfect, pure, holy, and entire, as it is in itself, delivered unto her by God himself. She also preserveth it by Gods assistance, from wicked enemies, and opposers that labour to invade her, and utterly to expulse the gospel of peace from this kingdom. As for example, In 1588. the Lord from heaven, made the Elements of wind and water to fight for her, to the over-throw of your great navy, and also the Lord did as it were by miracle quench the violence of fire, intended by our treacherous domestic bosom enemies, in their Gun-powder plot. And God in mercy hath confounded the manifold other devices, which the enemies of our Church and Gods truth, enviously haue plodded against us: She is a shelter to strangers of other Nations, who do profess the same word of truth with us, and being exiled, flee the grievous persecutions of your Church, or of the enemies of the truth.  
For the third reason, that the visible Church is called holy, by spreading it to the world, first, by reading: and thus our Church of Great britain, doth show herself to be a holy and faithful visible Church. In that she readeth the holy Scripture, not in a strange and unknown tongue, for then shee should be a Barbarian to her children but in her own tongue faithfully translated, whereby her children may by it learn to try all things, and to keep that which is good, and that they might search the Scriptures; for in them they think to haue eternal life, for they do testify of Christ: and that this word of God, should dwell plenteously in her children, and that by it, they should learn to speak graciously: and thus you see, she doth teach her children like a good Christian mother, the language of Canaan the holy tongue. Thus you see our Church is no concealer of the word and scriptures of God, as yours of Rome is: but like a faithful pillar of truth, spreadeth it to her Children, by reading it unto them,& suffering them to learn the language of the Scriptures, by reading it themselves. Oh the wonderful and unspeakable benefit, that cometh to the people of God, by this liberty of reading the Scriptures! for this me thinks, you should affect union with vs. And lastly, by explication, doth our church show herself to be holy, in that she doth deliver a true sense& construction of the Scripture, to her children, by Divinity-Lectures, and Sermons, and by this doth shee convince her adversaries; that by their Secular learning do oppose the truth of God revealed in the Scriptures: as is evident by the books of controversies, written by our learned King, and our learned Pastors against your Church:& also she sheweth herself to be holy by application, by using the keys of Gods kingdom faithfully. And this she doth ministerially, by denouncing the terrors, threats, and curses of the law, against all wicked and impenitent sinners, exposing them to the infinite Iudgement of Gods wrath, till they repent and beleeue: And thus she shuts the kingdom of heaven. again, she ministerially sets open the kingdom of heaven to all believing penitents;: by applying the blessed promises of grace in the name of Christ, whereby they bee comforted in their deepest distress of conscence for their sins: And like a holy and loving mother, by her holy ministry, doth share out in holy wisdom, the portion due to every visible Church of hers. Those that are weak, and but Babes; she gives them the sincere milk of the word of God, that they may grow thereby. And those that are able to bear it, shee giveth stronger meate: For the word of God which she doth administer, is fit for both: her Pastors are wise and able to minister comfort to them which are weary. Shee in example of Christ her head, by her ministry, doth not quench the smoking flax, nor break the bruised reed. But cherisheth the weak, and confirmeth the strong: and thus I haue shewed you the holiness of our Church by the third reason, which is by explication. And now I come to the fourth and last reason of the holiness of the visible Church, and that is her external and holy profession.  Philip, 
In this you may shane to open your mouth to prove your Church to be holy, the lives of men are so wicked in it.  George, 
truly senior Philip I confess, as before with grief, that the greater number of our people of all sorts in this island, and Church, are vile, and profane; and I do think, that were it not for the good laws of our kingdom, which do constrain and compel them, to make outward profession, they would many of them make none at all. Their outward carriage in al manner of wickedness, their lives doth apparently show it so. But what of this, do you think that the covenant of God, is broken with the whole? Our Kings and queens, together with our ancients and fore-fathers, both of the L●●tie and clergy, together with the people of the land, di● make a covenant most blessedly with God, to purge the land& kingdom of your popish superstition and idolatry. In King Henry the 8. his dayes it was begun: In King Edwards the reformation was much more further perfected: In queen Elizabeths, it still increased: and in our late most learned King james his time,& now still most happily continued. This they haue done in example of the good Kings of judea, as Ezekiah and josiah, and others. And according to this first reformation, haue we made a profession, and in this outward profession blessed be God, we still keep covenant with God; which I beseech our almighty, and eternal most blessed God, for his blessed sons sake Iesus Christ our Lord, our Pastors may so do to the end of the world.  
But now to come to our professors, I grant that the greater number of the professors of our Religion, may be but formal;& that they do profess for wrong ends and by-respects, as to avoid the Penalties of our civill laws, and our ecclesiastical censures. And again, for the praises of men, for that they would bee counted good Church-men: And to avoid the scandal of profanes, and because they think it safest to do as most do: and many do make the out-ward profession of Gods truth, to be a means, the better to bring to pass their projects of deceits; and too many do make their out-ward profession as figg-leaues to cover their inward hipocrysie. The established visible churches, were never without such bad professors: For where God hath his Church, there the devil will haue his chapel: If not by heresy, yet he will haue it set up by deceitful hipocrysie. Thus far of our worst professors, and now to our better. These be those that are out-wardly better reformed: First, a man may discern them by their company, for they will shun the company of such as are in their lives profane and unreformed, and will associate themselves with such as are virtuous and godly. They avoid the first, for fear of defilement by tentation to evil: and they incline unto the other, because they would haue their spirits quickened unto good. And for their habit in apparel, it is modest, nor greedily taking up every vain new fashion; as is the manner of our vainest and profanest professors, and of many of your gallantest roman catholics. Neither is their apparel costly above their ranks and callings, but rather under; avoiding superfluities, both in apparel, diet, and other ordinary expenses, whereby they may the better enable themselves for pious, godly, and charitable expenses, as God by his providence, shall call for it at their hands. Their behaviour is gracious, virtue is seen in their very Counteenance, their speech is not scurrilous and Wanton, but for the most part gracious unto edification always: the holy tongue and language of Canaan is frequent amongst them. All mens tongues by nature, are set on fire of hell; but Gods grace hath so prevailed with them, as to quench their tongues, with the waters of virtue: In a word, we haue in our Church, such professors, as do avoid all appearance of evil; and which do keep themselves unspotted of the world, and without the reach of just exception of any. They are godly, giving attendance at the dore-posts of Gods house, to hear his Word, that they might learn from Gods Word, rules to direct them in the carriages of their lives. And they there, in a holy joynt-communion, with the congregation, offer up their praises and prayers, in the name of our blessed mediator Christ, for whose sake, they and their sacrifices, are accepted of God, being offered in faith. And for the sacraments, which be Instruments and signs, and seals of salvation, they constionably frequent them often: and this their holy and righteous life, is not according to the laws or rules of human Invention, but according to the rules and laws of God, revealed in the Scriptures. Now I say, though many may in our Church make glorious shows to the World, of sincerity in their profession, and yet be deceitful hypocrites: yet I am persuaded assuredly, that we haue multitudes that are true Nathaniels, Israelites, in whose hearts( as they are sanctified) is no guile: whose outward profession doth proceed from pure hearts, good consciences, and faith unfeigned; and in the conversation of their lives, haue a due respect unto all the commandements of God, walking honestly in all things, and hating the garments spotted by the flesh. And thus I haue proved our Church of great britain, to bee a true and holy church, by your mark of holiness. Nwo let us try yours by it also.  Philip, 
Now let me show you the proof of our Church by this mark of holiness, to be a true Church: As first there be holy men admirable for holiness. Secondly, there is a holy sevice. Thirdly, holy Ceremonies. Fourthly, holy sacrifice, holy sacraments, and lastly, holy dayes.  George, 
Now let me show you how holy your Church of Rome is, I will begin at the head and fountain thereof your Popes, for so you take them to bee: And look what the head and fountain is, such must needs be the body, and streams that flow from such head and fountain. I will begin with Pope Marcellinus, of whom I read that he sacrificed to the Idols of the balsams. I read that Pope Alexander the 6. poisoned Gemes the great Turkes brother, committed to his custody. I read that one Pope Hildebrand, hired one to kill the Emperour. I read that Pope John the 13. committed Incest with his two sisters: and I read that he was wounded in adultery. I read that Pope Alexander the sixth, lay with his own Daughter. I read that Pope Hildebrand, was a Sorcerer. I red that Pope Silvester the second, gave himself to the devil, to be Pope. I red that many others were magicians, as John the 21. and Benedict the 9. &c. again, I red that Pope Alexander the 6. cut off the the hands and feet of one Mencinellus, because he wrote against his filthiness. I read that Pope John the 13. cut off the hands and noses of divers cardinals. I red that Pope Sergius the 3. kept another mans wife, her name was Marozia, wife to one Guido. I red that his Bastard came to the popedom, his name was Pope John the 11. or 12. I red that Pope Sixtus the 4. granted liberty to the whole family of the cardinal of Saint luke in the three hot moneths, june, july, and August, to use Sodomy: At the foot of the licence was written, be it, as it is requested. I red that every common Harlot in Rome, paid a fee to Pope Sixtus the 4. Thus, that whereas you condemn our Churches of vnholines,& therefore it could not be in your opinion by this mark a Church of Christ. What should one think of your Church, that hath such ungodly a head and fountain? Now seeing there is such wickedness in the head of your Church, I will show you the wicked errors of some of your Popes. First Liberius an Arian, secondly Anastatius the second Anastasian, thirdly Honorius a Monothelit, condemned by the Roman council under Adrian, fourthly Hildebrand, threw the Sacrament into the fire, sixthly John the 22. derided the gospel held the souls to be mortal, and was therefore by the council of Constance called a devil incarnat, sixthly lo the 10. to cardinal Beambus, calleth the story of Christ a fable, seventhly, John the 13. called the devil to help him at Dice, and drank to him. Now I will show you, what I read of the filthiness, of the principal part of the body. I read that one Gallus Senonensis, wrote about 400. yeares ago, that satan was let loose at Rome, to destroy the Church. I red that Thomas Becket a Romish Saint, acknowledged the common proverb to be true, that there is no right at Rome. I read that the Bishop of worcester a Papist  told Philpot, that he thought the wickedness he saw in Rome, made him an heretic. If the head-Pastor, and head-City of your religion, be thus defiled with so wicked behaviour, what is the whole body of your professors?  Philip, 
Well, your writers who thus inform you, abuse our holy Fathers the Popes, and our holy City of Rome. I would you would renounce your heresy, and travel thither; you should then bee an Eye-witnes, of the holiness there, how it doth abound: And then you should know, how you are deceitfully abused by your writers.  George, 
As for my errors, I will renounce them, if you can show me them: But I suppose, you can show me no error herein. And as for my travel to Rome, I fear I should behold there;( should I go thither:) greater abomination, then any yet I haue heard off: and I know already, that there is prepared faggot and Fire for me, except I will betray the Lords truth, and deceive my own soul, by wicked equivocation. But to return to the seeming holiness of your Church of Rome, whereby you would prove it to be a pure and true Church, for your holy service. I marvel what your Church meaneth to haue it in Latin, and not in the Vulgar tongues; whereby the people might acquaint themselves with the holiness thereof? But satan being an old politician, hath prevailed with your Church; to hid your sevice in an unknown tongue from the people, that they should not spy out the blasphemous filthiness of your service. Let me show you a little in part, your unholy and corrupt service. God in the Prophet Esaiah saith: He will not give his honour to any other. 
Esa 48.21.  And this is a great honour to God, to flee unto him onely by prayer: there is neither Commandement nor promise in the scripture, that if wee do pray unto Saints, we shall be heard: vpon which two, every lawful prayer must bee built. I mean, vpon a Commandement and promise, what saith Saint james? 
Iam. 1.5.  If any man lack wisdom, let him ask it of God, and it shalbe given him. And what saith Saint Paul? 
Rom. 10.13  Whosoever shall call vpon the name of the Lord, shalbe saved. And who is the Mediator, by whom we must pray? Is it not Christ alone, and no other. For what saith the scripture? There is one Mediator between God and man, the man Christ Iesus. And therefore what saith our Saviour? What soever you ask my Father in my name, he will give it you. again, what saith our Saviour? Come unto me, all ye that are weary, and heavy laden, and I will ease you. Vpon the Saints dayes in your Church, in their prayers, still these words come in: That by their merits, wee may haue profit; and by their requests, we may be delivered. Thus they derogate from the mercy of God, and the glorious merits of Christ, as if his were not sufficient. This one place of Esay, me thinks should convince their prayers to the Saints departed, if they would aclowledge it; The words are, doubtless thou art our father, though Abraham, be ignorant of us, and Israell know us not. If Abraham the father of the faithful, be ignorant of us; so is all the rest of his Saints: therefore in vain to pray unto them. And for your daily sacrifice of the mass, it is a blasphemous idol; for Christ offered himself, a most perfect sacrifice: 
Heb 9.15. Heb. 10 20.  With which God was well pleased. And this he did but once for all. You adore a piece of bread, when it is carried in procession, for though it were true that the bread in the Sacrament, were turned into the body of Christ: yet the Sacrament being ended, it must needs return to the former nature. What a fond thing is it to make prayers for the dead, because there is no certainty of their estate? And they salute the cross saying, all hail O cross, our onely hope &c. Increase righteousness to the godly, and give pardon to the guilty. And you pray the Virgin Mary, to pray the Father, charge thy son, command by the right of a mother: they say that Saint Francis, could save all that should live after him, to the end of the World, through his merits, from everlasting death. look 1. Timo: 2.5. and that place proveth that there is but one Mediator, as there is but one God. I read that the form of the absolution, to penitentiares runneth thus, the passion of Christ, and the merits of the blessed Virgin, of Saint Peter, and Saint Paul, and of other he, and Shee Saints, be unto thee for remission of sins. What ungodly, and vnchristian divinity is this? I read that whosoever readeth the Cannon of the mass, shall there see, a world of idle& ridiculous ceremonies. I red that they say indeed they haue the form of the mass, by the traditions of the Apostles. But the truth is, that it was now a piece, and then a piece patched up by their own Popes. As first, Sixtus the second brought in the Sanctus: Innocentius first, brought in the Pax: and lo, the 1. added this clause: a holy Sacrifice, and unbloody Host. Gelasius, brought in the Prefaces, and Collects, and Gradualls. Simmachus, the gloria in Excelsis: Agapetus 1. Processions, Pelagius, 2. the 9. Prefaces before the Cannon. Sergius 1. brought in Agnus dei. Gregory 1. confesseth, that one Scholasticus made most part of the Cannon. Thus you may perceive that there is not written in the fore-head and outward profession of your Head Pastors, and Church holiness unto the Lord. But rather Idolatrous superstition, and ungodliness to the Prince of darkness, and to Antichrist. For these things that I haue recited, being in your public service book, cannot be proved by the word of God, which is the Cannon& rule of holiness, by which the visible church of God, should direct herself.  Philip, 
It is nothing yet you haue said; for the Church is holy by her faith, for Christ hath promised, that her faith shall not fail: and she hath the spirit to led her into all truth, and Christ prayed that Peters faith should not fail. Therefore the Church of Rome is holy in faith, for that was Peters bishopric, and the promise belongeth to the Church of Rome, and the posterity thereof after him, to the end of the world.  George, 
fain you would prove your Church of Rome, a true church by this mark of holiness, and her holiness by her faith: But alas you cannot. Christs promise indeed is certain, and doth not fail any of the elect; for their faith shall never fail, nor the Gates of hell shall never prevail against it. This promise was made to Peter; but you must consider that it was made to him, as he was one of the elect of God: and a faithful Disciple of his Lord and Master, and the effect of it was, that his faith in that his Lord and Master Iesus Christ, should never utterly fail, how-soever he might slip and fall. And he prayed for Peter, as he prayed for every faithful man, whose faith doth not fail, but is the hand and instrument of their salvation. Thus you may see, what errors and absurdities your Church doth run into, by not holding a distinction, between men as they are of the visible, and as they are of the invisible Church. And for as much as your Church doth brag, as other heretics do, of the promise of the spirit: let me tell you that the spirit, is always joined with the Word; for these are inseparable. mark what the Prophet Esay saith of the new covenant, in these words: And I will make this my covenant with them saith the Lord, my spirit that is vpon thee, and my words which I haue put in thy mouth: shall not depart out of thy mouth, nor out of the mouth of thy seed, nor out of the mouth of the seed of thy seed, saith the Lord: from hence forth even for ever. The word and spirit cannot bee disjoined, without fearful sacrilege: therefore our Saviour Christ saith, when the comforter is come, meaning the spirit of truth, he shall lead you into all truth: and he shall bring all things to your remembrance which I haue  told you. And he saith to the Apostles, in Saint matthew by commandement, teaching them to observe all things, 
Iath. 28.20.  whatsoever I haue commanded you. And to this, he promises his presence, lo I am with you alway to the end of the world. So that you see that the spirit doth lead the Church into the truth of Christ, and bringeth it to their remembrance; and the Apostles must teach nothing, but that which Christ commanded them. And therefore the Church of Rome doth wickedly, to teach for doctrine, any thing which cannot be proved by the Word of Christ: and therefore by this mark of holiness, she is no true holy Church of Christ; because several Articles of her faith, haue no ground in the scriptures, which is the holy Word of faith.  Philip, 
Are you able to prove that the Church of Rome, cannot prove all her articles of faith by scriptures?  George, 
Yea that I can, first she can never prove it lawful for the word and scriptures of God, and the public worship and service of the Church, to bee in an unknown tongue: but wee can prove the scriptures condemn it. Secondly, you cannot prove that the Pope and Church, can take away from the laity, the Cup and Sacrament of the body and blood of Christ. Thirdly, they cannot prove their religious worship of Images. Fourthly, they cannot prove, that Peter was Bishop of Rome, and that Linus, Cletus and Clement were his successors there. These points there is not so much as a seeming show in scripture to prove them: many other Articles of their faith, they endeavour to prove by scripture, which are controverted between them and us, but the cannot. The Church of Rome proclaims to the World, that shee is the pillar and ground of truth: I would to God, she were as she professeth herself to be: Then would she uphold the truth, but she rather upholdeth, and spreadeth her own deceitful Doctrine, then the truth of God. Oh that she were as Paul was, pure from the blood of all men: then she should do as Paul did; keep nothing back, but show the whole council of God to the people. 
●ct. 20.26.28  But she is, I dare be bold to speak it, guilty of the blood of many millions of Christian souls, by keeping back and concealing, the counsels of God from the people. And besides what Minister soever doth keep back nothing of the counsels of God from the people, but doth labour to teach them the whole will of God revealed in the scriptures, so far forth as God in mercy, hath enlightened him; and what people soever, do spend their lives and conversations according to Gods holy counsels and will to them taught; shal be sure( if they come within the reach of the usurping jurisdiction of your Pope, and Church of Rome:) to endure the heavy templation of faggot and Fire, as from the greatest adversary, that satan hath raised in the World, against Gods holy truth, and the holy professors thereof in the visible Church, and that under the hypocritical name of the holy Mother Church. Without holiness it is impossible to see God, as the scripture saith. None must come nigh unto God that is not holy: none shall possess the eternal habitation of holiness in the heavens, but those that haue the beginnings of holiness here on earth: therefore the Lord hath set down such rules and laws of holiness in the holy scriptures, as will make men holy in his sight; if they in their course of life, take heed thereunto. Now the Church of Rome, enjoins to be observed by her Children, such laws and things as the scriptures never sanctified nor made holy for his religious service. These are the things which your Church calleth holy, as holy Images, holy Crucifixes, holy Beads, holy Water, holy P●xe: and in baptism they add holy oil, holy cream, holy Salt, holy Spittle: and their Pilgrimages, which be merely superstitious, as to the Lady Loreto, the Lady Walsingham, and multitudes of things they cause you to do, which you are persuaded in your ignorance, that you are the holier by them. Alas poor souls! Oh that you had hearts to beleeue what Christ hath said in these words! The words that I preach, shall judge you at the latter day. He preached by Moses and the Prophets, he preached by his own Person, and by his Apostles, and none of them did show any holiness in such ridiculous and childish toys, but rather condemn them: and he will one day call you to account for them, as is expressed in the holy scripture, in these words, who required those things at your hands? It is not your holy Father the Pope, nor you holy Mother the Church of Rome, will bear you out in that great day of reckoning: for to you shall then be said, I gave you the light of my gospel which was glorious; but ye loved rather the Egyptian darkness of Rome: It will be then said, I gave you my word, to be a lantern to your feet, and a light unto your paths: but you walked ignorantly, by an ●mplicit faith in darkness, taught you by the Church of Rome. Your consciences do now lie asleep, in a dead security in the lap of the Church of Rome, as mastiff Doggs, chained in their kennells: But in the last day, at the great account, they willbe wakened and torment you, accuse, witness, and condemn you before the great judge Christ; for contemning his Word of truth, which is able to save your souls, and to make you perfect in the ways of holiness. This word of truth, is truly read and preached hear in this iceland of ours, by Pastors lawfully sent, as I haue formerly proved: which I would haue you and all others, as you tender your own eternal good both of soul a body, seriously to consider: and thus I haue made an end of your mark of holiness of the visible Church.  Philip, 
Well, I haue given you the hearing all this while, but let us proceed to another mark.  George 
It is to little purpose, to be large in other marks; seeing without soundness of Doctrine, all your marks, do not discover a true pure Church without it: and therefore for other marks, I will now but as it were touch them. And as for antiquity, one of your marks I haue shewed already: that ours, is as ancient as yours, if not before it in antiquity, but for foundnes of doctrine; it is before it in antiquity as the ancient records of the scriptures do testify, and I haue proved unto you.  
And as I haue shewed unto you, that faith and doctrine is essential to the visible Church, for it is the form and lifeblood of the Church; so let me( as I think) explain it to you by a fit similitude. A man of a Noble family in our kingdom, very anciently descended, and truly honourable by descent in blood; If he wickedly commit treachery against our King and his royal issue, or against the state; Is not his blood of honour, both for himself, and his posterity tainted, and quiter extinguished by his great disloyalty? Even by the laws of our kingdom, he cannot now in any case plead his prerogatives of honour; neither can his issue, unless the King restore them. Let us apply this similitude; our Church whilst it remained with your Church of Rome, and held communion with her, was a long time polluted in her blood: The form, faith, and life of her, was so corrupted by consenting to the disloyal treachery against God, and his son Christ and all his Children; that had not our most gracious God, restored her to her ancient nobility and honour, by making her through his grace, ashamed of her Idolatry and superstition, and false-worship, which she treacherously practised with the Church of Rome: 
Iere 6 15.  and also caused her to stand in the ways, as the Prophet jeremy exhorted the Iewes to ask after the old and ancient ways of the Lord, which is the good way, from which with the Church of Rome, shee had a long time gone astray, she had still remained Ignoble and dishonourable. It had been vain, and to no purpose, to plead her ancient Nobility of an ancient Church, considering whilst shee remained with you, shee was polluted in her life-bloud, by treacherous Idolatry and superstition: but now, 
jer. 6.16.  by Gods free mercy and favour, she hath obeied his voice and command by the ministry of the Prophet jeremy. For shee hath stood in the ways, and asked for the old way, which is the good way, and found it: and she teacheth her Children to walk therein, that they might find rest unto their souls. So that the ancient Church of God now liveth in her, and all other parts of the visible Church, in whom the Lord hath restored the pure life of faith and doctrine: so that now wee may justly stand vpon our Noble and honourable antiquity, as a prorogatiue which cannot justly be gainsaid.  
And now for the Church of Rome, we confess that she was an ancient, honourable, and Noble Church of Christ; but her case is altered, for she hath lost the best part of her Nobility, and antiquity, and that by mere treachery both against Christ and his Church: her ancient Noble-bloud of found doctrine, is stained with novelty and heresy many ways, as hath been abundantly proved unto her by many of our learned Divines. But as the Prophet jeremy said of the Iewes Church; they were not ashamed: So may we say of Rome, that she is not ashamed of her abominations, 
Iere. 6.15.16.  although she hath been never so lovingly exhorted by the Lord; and that by the ministry of his servants in these latter times. The old and ancient ways of the Lord, which is the good way, is contemned, her own ways newly devised by herself embraced, and of her Children obeied: And therefore I must needs conclude, that she is yet defiled in her blood, by heretical novelty; and therefore in vain for her to pled for her proof to bee a true Church by her mark of antiquity.  
And for your mark of multitude, it is strange it should bee counted a mark of a visible Church; whereas it is rather a mark of the wicked routs of the devil: For so the Heathens might haue opposed sometime against the Church and said, we haue all Nations but one, and in that one Nation all families against one or two: 
Gene. 6.  as in the time of Noe, they that are called men of renown,& entitled the sons of God, mocked both Noe, and his Religion. And likewise when the Lord made choice of Abrahams family, and placed them in the land of Canaan; 
1 King. 12.  ten tribes against Iuda, and in Iuda and Israel, the Idolaters more in number then the godly: for Elias complained, he was left alone: against one good Prophet, namely Michea, there stood up four hundred false. And the Prophet jeremiah cries, 
1. King 22. jer. 4.9.  that all the people is deceived, even their Kings, their Priests, and their Prophets: and what saith the Prophet Esay; 
Esa. 53.1.  Who will beleeue our report? And to whom is the arm of the Lord revealed? And God saith in Exodus: Thou shalt not follow a multitude to do evil. 
Exod. 23.2.  And what saith our Saviour? Wide is the gate that leadeth to destruction, and many there be that go in thereat. 
Math. 7 13. Luke 12.32.  And again our Saviour saith; fear not little flock, it is your Fathers will to give you the kingdom. And thus you see, that the smallest number is rather a mark of Gods Church, then the greatest.  
And for your mark of Revelations, or Visions, or Prophesies, which are a kind of miracles: and therefore I will be brief in them altogether. I will allege a plain text to confute them, that they shall not stand as marks of the true Church of God, I pray you give good heed to this text I shall allege, for it overthroweth all the miracles and prophesies your Church doth so much brag of, to the deceiving of the simplo: the words are these. If there shal arise saith the Lord, in the midst of thee, a Prophet, or a Dreamer of dreams, and the sign or wonder, which he hath  told thee come to pass, whereof he spake unto thee, saying let us go after other Go●●, &c. 
Deut 13.  Thou shalt not harken to the words of that Prophet. So that admit the church of Rome should perform some miraculous sign or wonder to confirm some false Doctrine of hers, and that the miracle were true in effect: yet the end of this miracle being false, which is ●o draw men to the service of false Gods, or the true God in a f●lse worship: we must not hear the false Prophet, nor obey his Doctrine, but we must try the doctrine by the touch ston of the Scriptures, as you haue formerly heard. S. Paul saith, that they that haue gifts of prophesy, must prophesy according to the analogy, or proportion of faith: And therefore must be tried by it, as S. John saith: try the spirits, whether they be of God or not. And if you will see what Paul saith in the Thessa: for there he saith, that Antichrist shall come, 
Rom. 12. ●  even by the effectual working of satan, with all power, and signs, 
● Thessa.  and lying wonders. And this place I would haue you, and all private Christians well to consider; as you tender your own woe& misery, or your own bliss and happiness for ever. For if the Pope be Antichrist, as I take it to be most certain that he is, whose coming is not onely with lying signs, and wonders, but also in all deceivablenes of unrighteousness; then must your e●●●te needs and most dangerous and lamentable: For, to whom doth h●● 〈◇〉 Even among them that perish. And why do they perish? ●he ●●son is, because they received not the love of the truth that t●●● 〈◇〉 bee saved. See the Iudgement of God vpon t●em 〈…〉 beleeue the truth: For it is said, 
V●●●e 11.  Therefore God s●all 〈…〉 ●lusions, that they should beleeue lies. O fearefu●● 〈…〉 is, that all they might be damned which beleeue no● 〈…〉: But had pleasure in unrighteousness. What Chris●●●● 〈…〉 reading this place, being truly touched with ●p●r●tuall comiser●tion, that doth not from his soul, commiserate and pitty the fearful estate of those of your religion that live in this our Church, where the truth of God, and of Christ Iesus our Lord, is so powerfully, so purely,& so sincerely taught. And yet haue pleasure in a deceitful and an unrighteous Doctrine taught them, by that man of sin: and such as are deceitfully sent from him. I do now purpose to conclude our conference at this time, but I cannot break off, without a friendly and Christian like exhortation; and could wish that my head& heart were a fountain of tears for you all, that I might truly weep for your misery that will come vpon you except ye repent, and forsake the false Doctrine taught you by the Church of Rome. I do therefore as a private Christian Brother, exhort you senior Philip, and all other that are estranged from the truth, to be reconciled unto God, and express your reconciliation to the World, by your frequenting the schools of the truth, that the essence of truth Christ Iesus hath directed here, for it is that truth that is able to save your souls. But if you will not receive the love of Gods truth, and forsake deceitful and unrighteous doctrines. Then your case is dangerous,& much more dangerous then those of your religion, that haue not lived under the clear light of Gods truth as you haue done. In the mean time, I will not give over, to pray unto the God of truth, that you may come to the saving knowledge of truth, that you may be saved and live blessedly for ever.  Phi. 
Well, I like well your mind, if it were guided by the truth, which it cannot be, except you were reconciled to the church of truth, which is the Church of Rome.  George, 
Your Church of Rome is not a Church of truth, as hath been largely proved, by our Divines in their Sermons and writings, and myself in a weak measure in our conference of the Church visible haue shewed unto you.  Philip, 
Haue you any more to say of the visible Church?  George, 
Surely I haue done at this time, what I meant to say of the visible Church; and I pray God it may profit you and other poor simplo seduced souls, who are ignorant what the church is, and whereof it doth consist. It now remaineth that we should confer of the faith of the visible church, but I  told you at the first beginning of our conference, that the discourse concerning the faith of the visible church would be some-what large: and sure Seig: Philip, I do not know whether I shall live to haue conference with you about it: for the faith of the church is, as health& life to the body; and they that should confer with you about it, had need to be very judicious to edify you in it. I haue hitherto but a little touched the life of the visible church, and I do desire with my heart, that some wise judicious private Christian, would privately confer with you about the health& life of the visible church; we in our conference of the visible church, haue but as it were surveyed the outward parts of the church. That which followeth to be treated of, is the very anatomizing of the visible church, by searching into the spirit and life of the visible church:& he that should confer with you, had need to be well red in the Doctrine of the pure orthodoxal church, and also of the Doctrine of those two parts of the visible Church, which we haue hitherto treated of, I mean the church of Rome, and the Church of great britain, he had need to be no Novice in the singular Art of divine theology, that he might be wise, to discover the diseases and sicknesses of both these two parts of the Church, and be wise also to show their care in this: I confess that my Iudgement is too weak. I want both Arts and Learning, and the gift of tongues: but yet I could find in my heart, to draw out a plot and refer the building to them that are wiser, if any judicious private Christian of our religion will vnder-take it.  Philip, 
Come on then I pray you, let me see your plot, and I will show you how I like it.  George, 
I haue in our conference of the visible Church, shewed that Christ Iesus being perfect man, is every where in the scripture called our Lord, and that he is the Lord, both of heaven& earth, and that it is essential to the visible church, so to confess and aclowledge him. Now in this, I would ask your Iudgement, whether that part of the visible, church which do by their Doctrine most purely preach to the world, the sovereignty of his Lord ship, and do give unto him, all his dignities and prerogatives royal, both in heaven and earth: be the safest Church for a private man to join with, and submit himself unto for the guide of his soul and body unto everlasting life?  Philip, 
I answer, it is the safest to submit unto, and that is the Church of Rome.  Geo. 
Again, I ask your Iudgement, whether the Church be the safest to join with, that doth most purely preach faith in his name?  Philip, 
I say it is the safest, and that also the Church of Rome.  George. 
again, I ask you whereas Paul saith, there is one Lord, one Faith, one baptism. Which baptism is the ministerial Instrument, which the visible Church doth use to initiate and knit men unto Christ, and his mystical body: whether that Church which teacheth most purely, the Doctrine of sacramental union with Christ by baptism be your safest course to join with?  Philip, 
I say it is the safest, and that also is the Church of Rome.  Geo. 
I will ask you three questions of another sort, the first is, that whereas all things must be done to the glory of God; whether the Church be the safest to join with,& submit unto, that doth most glorify God by her doctrine?  Philip, 
I say it is the safest, which is the Church of Rome.  Geo. 
The 2. question of this sort, is that, whereas that none but those which are humble, are fitt for grace; therefore is not that Church the safest to submit unto, that doth by her doctrine, throw men down in the sight of their misery, by sin, both original,& actual?  Philip, 
I say it is the safest, which is the Church of Rome.  George, 
A third question of the second sort, whether the church, when a sinful man is humbled in the sight of his misery by sin, is the safest to join with, that by her Doctrine doth ministerially best restore, and lift him up to a state of grace?  Philip, 
This also is the safest, and that is the Church of Rome.  George, 
There are four questions more to ask you, but I will include them all in one: There are four grounds of religion, as first, the creed, the second, the Lords prayer, the third, the Sacraments, the fourth and last the ten Commandements. And is that the safest Church that te●cheth these four grounds most purely?  Philip, 
Yes no question, and that is also the Church of Rome.  George, 
These points I thought good, to lay as a ground for a further dispute, concerning the faith and life of a Church visible, the Doctrines of these points taught by the Church of England, being compared, it will be found, that the Church of England is the safest to join with in Gods service unto salvation.  
FINIS.