device or ornament 
1624   
 device or ornament   

THE PACK-MANS PATER NOSTER, OR 
A Dialogue betwixt  
A Chapman and a Priest.   
newly translated out of Dutch, by SIS.  
 printer's device of Edward Raban, featuring the arms of Aberdeen [McKerrow 394] BON ACCORD 
E R  
Insignia urbis abredonie   
Aberdeen, PRINTED BY EDWARD RABAN, for David Melvill, 1624.   

 decorative header 
E R   
A CONFERENCE between a pedlar and a Priest. OR 
The Packe-mans Pater Noster,  
That he learned in a Closter:  
Whereof he sore repented,  
And prays it may bee prented.  
Not fitting for the schools,  
Yet schoolmaster of fools.   
A POLLANDS pedlar went vpon a day,  
unto his Parish Priest, to learn to pray.  
The Priest said; Packe-man, thou must haunt the Closter,  
To learn the have, and the Pater noster.  Packe-man. 

NOW, good Sir Priest, said he, what talk is that?  
I hear you speak; but GOD in Heaven knows what.   Priest. 

It is, said he, that holy latin Letter,  
That pleaseth God well, and our lady better.   Packe-man. 

Alace, Sir John, I'll never understand them:  
So I must leave your Prayers, as a fand them.   Priest. 

Tush, tush, says he, if thou list for to liere,  
Within a month I shall make thee parquiere.   Packe-man. 

Parquiere, said he, that will be but in saying;  
In words, not sense; a prattling, not a praying.  
Shall I( Sir John) a man of perfect age,  
Pray like an idle parrot in a Cage?   Priest. 

A parrot can but prattle for her part,  
But toward God hath neither head nor heart.   Packe-man. 

And seeing I haue head and heart to pray,  
Should not mine heart know what my tongue doth say?  
For when my tongue talks, if mine heart miscarry.  
Howe quickly may I mar your have mary?  
And I( Sir) having many things to seek,  
How shall I speed, not knowing what I speak?   Priest. 

Because that GOD all Tongues doth understand,  
Yea, knows thy very thoughts before the hand.   Packe-man. 

Then if I think one thing, and speak another,  
I will both crabb Christ, and our lady His Mother.  
For when I pray for making up my pack, man,  
Your have mary is not worth a Placke, man.   Priest. 

Thy latin Prayers are but general heads,  
containing every special that thou needs:  
The latin serves us for a liturgy,  
As Medciners direct the Chirurgie.  
And in this language mess is said and sung.  
For private things pray in thy mother tongue.   Packe-man. 

Then must I haue a tongue( Sir John) for either;  
One for the Mother, another for the Father.   Priest. 

thinkest thou the Mother doth not know such small things?  
Christ is her son, man, and he tells her all things.   Packe-man. 

But( good Sir John) where learned our lady her latins?  
For in her dayes were neither mess nor Matines:  
Nor yet one Priest that latin then did speak:  
For holy words were then all Hebrew and greek.  
Shée never was at Rome, nor kist Popes feet:  
How came shée by the mess, then, would I wit?   Priest. 

Packe-man, if thou believe the Legendarie,  
The mess is elder far than Christ or mary:  
For all the Patriarks, both more and less,  
And great Melchisedec himself said mess.   Packe-man. 

But( good Sir John) spake all these Fathers latin?  
And said they mess in Surplices and Satine?  
Could they speak latin long yet latin grew?  
And without latin no mess can be true.  
And as for heretics that now translate it.  
False Miscreants; they shane the mess, and state it.   Priest. 

Well( Packe-man) faith thou art too curious;  
Thy spur-blinde zeal; fervent, but furious.  
I rather teach a whole Coven of monks;  
Than such a Packe-man, with his puritan spunkes.  
This thou must know, that cannot bee denied,  
Rome rang over all when Christ was crucified:  
Rome ethnic then: but afterwards converted,  
And grew so honest, and so holy hearted:  
That now her Emprour is turned in our Pope,  
His Holinesse; as you haue heard, I hope.  
he made a law, that all the world should pray,  
In latin language to the Lord each day:  
Therefore of this thou mayst bee sure and sickar,  
The Pope of Rome is now made Christs full Vicar.   Packe-man. 

surely this purpose puts me far abacke,  
And hath more Poyntes than pings in all my pack:  
What ever power you give to your Pope,  
he may not make a man an Ape, I hope.  
And if he bee full Vicar to our LORD,  
Should not his words and CHRISTS keep one accord?   Priest. 

doubtless they do: and never are contrary,  
In PATER NOSTER, CREED, nor have mary.   Packe-man. 

But Christs Disciples, when they made their motion  
To Christ their Master, how to make devotion,  
As I haue done to you, Sir John, to day,  
I pray you, in what Tongue bade he them pray?  
Christ did not one word latin to them speak:  
Their talk was all in syriac, Hebrew, greek.  
he bade all Nations pray after one manner;  
But bade not all take latin for their Banner.  
Your latin is but one of the Translations:  
Why should it then exclude all other Nations?   

¶ And, on my soul, Sir John, if I but say,  
In mine own Mother-tongue, when I do pray,  
Lord, help me; Lord, forgive me all my sins:  
Yea, why not, Lord, increase my pack and pings?  
And every thing where-of I stand in need:  
For this depends vpon Our daily Bread.  
I hope in GOD, that he shall as soon hear me,  
As all the latin Prayers you can leare me.  
And since some Tongues haue more antiquity  
Than latin, were it not iniquity  
To force all People to pray like the Pope?  
No, good Sir John, you'll not say that, I hope.   Priest. 

But, Packe-man, one point would I fain make plain:  
Let us come back, unto our lady again.  
And if thou hadst as much capacity,  
As almsgiving wit, with great audacity,  
The case is clear, that virgin mary meek,  
Shee could all Languages perfectly speak.  
Hast thou not heard, man, how the holy Ghost  
Came down like cloven tongues at Pentecost?  
And filled the house where all the twelve were ready:  
And one tongue truly lighted on our lady.  
And lest thou think I talk of idle theme,  
Consult the reverend Iesuites of 
Vpon Act. 2. 4.  rheims.  
And this I pray thee, Packe-man, earnestly note.   Packe-man. 

In faith, Sir John, it is not worth a groat.  
Will I belieue't, think ye, because they say it?   Priest. 

No: but they prove't, as no man can denay it.  
saith not the Text, that when the Lord ascended,  

Act. 1. 4  unto the twelve he earnestly recommended,  
That from jerusalem they should not go,  
until the Comforter should come? And so,  
Into an vpper room they went together,  
Where 
Act. 1. 12. 13. 14.  mary still was one, ye must consider.  
With many more, in number full 
Vers. 15.  six score,  
That with the twelve did daily GOD adore.  
And then he saith, When 
Act. 2. 1  Pentecost was come,  
They were together in one place, all, and some.  
And 
Vers. 4. ( All) were filled with the holy Ghost.   Packe-man. 

O, good Sir John, ye count without your Host.  
Now see I well, your jesuitical tongues  
Haue cloven the Text, even to the very lungs.  
That 
Act. 1. 15 ( All) which first was spoken of six score,  

Act. ●. ●.  Is here meant of the only twelve, no more.  
Nor mary is not name now, as then.  
What need wee then believe it, holy man?  
On with your Spectacles( Sir John) and read,  
And credite this, as a point of your creed.  
The holy Ghost could fall vpon no more,  
Than he was promised unto before.  
doubtless he took not a blinde-folded flight,  
like syled larks, not knowing where to light.  
Now, he was promisde 
Act. ●. ●.  only to the twelve.  
look on the Text( Sir John) and judge your selue.  
speak man, and bee not silent: I am sorry,  
To see you ignorant of such a story.   

¶ And as the stories in themselves are divers,  
Flowing and falling into sundry Rivers:  
In divers Chapters 
To wit, the first and second Chapters.  so they stand divided,  
So that the case may clearly be decided.  
For when those six score were at first conveaned,  
There was another mystery then meaned:  
To wit, mathias free election.  
And so saint Peter gave direction,  
That( All) the six score there should bear record  
Of their misunderstandings then before the Lord.  
The choosing of a Pastor was in hand:  
Which without the Churches knowledge cannot stand.  
And so mathias through the power of Heaven,  
By 
Act. 1. 26.  lot was held as one of the eleven.  
Then says the Text: 
And 2. 1.  All these were still together.  
What( All) these were, let any man consider.  
The twelve, say I, in the last verse before:  
And not make leape-yeare of eleven verse more,  
To draw( All) back to those hundreth and twenty.  
indeed this way wee should haue tongues in plenty.  
And as they differ by twelve verse or lines,  
So are they ten dayes different in times.  
The first, vpon the day that Christ ascended,  
The other, when the holy Ghost descended.  
Such glazen Arguments will bide none Hammer:  
For they are but ill logic, and worse grammar.  
So only twelve reciev'd the Holy Ghost.  
And so our lady all her tongues hath lost.   

¶ Now for the holy Ghost, Sir John, ye know,  
His coming down is tied to no law:  
Some times invisible, and some times seen.  
As diversly at divers times hath been.  
His coming needs but to be seen of few.  
His works may serve for witnesses anew.  
And so Saint Paul himself this gift he fand,  
But privatelie by Ananias hand.   

¶ And so( Sir John) to show you all my pack,  
And let you see my breast as well as back:  
I wonder ye consider not the end,  
Why God the holy Ghost, in Tongues did send.  
Know ye not, Tongues were only given for teaching?  
Know ye not, Women are forbidden preaching?  
Yea, scarce at home haue liberty of speech;  
But ask their husbands, and they for to teach.  
Since Women then in Gods word may not walk,  
What should they do with Tongues that may not talk?   

¶ And then( Sir John) what worship do ye win  
unto our lady, when ye bring her in,  
Iacke-fellow-lyke with other whole six score,  
Who got the holy Ghost, and shée no more?  
And where the Pope hath made her queen of Heaven,  
ye make her but like one of the eleven.  
surely( Sir John) this is an ill fav'rd fitching;  
ye thrust her from the Hall down to the kitchen.   

¶ And this is also one of the rare theme,  
held by your reverend Iesuites of rheims:  

On 1. Cor. 14.  That latin came not with the holy Ghost,  
When the cloven tongues came at the Pentecost.  
Now, if it came not by the holy Ghost,  
How got it all this holinesse in hast,  
That in it only, and none other Tongue,  
Both mess and Matines should bee said and sung?  
Your last refuge will bee unto the Pope;  
So knit up all together in one Rope.   

¶ Then, good Sir John, consider but a little,  
How ye give unto mary many a title:  
Whereof ye haue no warrant in the Word;  
And yet pursue us both with fire and sword,  
As heretics, for not doing as yee-doe:  
Yet what the Word bids, and no more, that wee-doe.  
think ye that any man can bee so mad,  
As to hold Christ, his Saviour; and so bad.  
As to hold mary for his Saviours Mother,  
And not to love that woman boue all other?  
Wee love her then, tho wee believe not in her;  
Nor by Will-worship think wee for to win her.  
Wee hold her blessed, for Christs Flesh conceiving,  
But far more blessed, for Christs faith receiving:  
Shee is His Mother; and the Church, His Wyfe;  
Which was to Him much dearer than His life.  
So if the one could fall out with the other,  
he would respect His Wyfe, more than His Mother.  
For this is every Spouses carriage;  
But most, in this spiritual Marriage.  
And as shee's Mother of His human life,  
Shee's but a Daughter of His heavenly wife.  
And by this Mother, member of Christs body.  
Who thinks not so, is but a very Noddie.  
All this( Sir John) I do but briefly say;  
To let you see, that ye play us foul play.   Priest. 

Well Packe-man, tho thou bear about that trunk,  
I fear thou bee but some forlopen monk,  
Of Luthers lore, or crooked Calvines Crew;  
And sent abroad, such business to brew:  
Transformed in the person of some pedlar.   Packe-man. 

No, good Sir John, in faith I am no meddler,  
Nor haue I mind nor means so high to mount:  
I can but read a little, and lay a Count.  
And seek my meate through many an uncouth Maison:  
I know not what ye call your Kyrie-laison.  
So help me God, Sir John, I know no better,  
Nor in your latin can I read one letter.  
I but believe in God: and sometime say,  
Christ help me, when I wander out the way.  
And so, what ever I haue, what ever I want,  
I neither pray to he, nor to Shee saint.   

¶ And as for Tongues, I haue but one, no more:  
And wit ye well, albeit I had ten score,  
I would use all conform to Paules commanding:  
Pray with my tongue, pray with mine understanding.  
think ye those twelve, when they received these tongues,  
Did talk like parrots, or like barrel bungues:  
yielding a sound, not knowing what they said?  
idle in preaching, ydler when they prayed.  
No, each of them knew well what he did say:  
And why not wee, Sir John, as well as they?  
For since all men haue one tongue at command,  
Should wee seek tongues wee do not understand?  
Alas, Sir John, had I been trayn'd at school,  
As I am but a simplo ignorant fool,  
An hundreth Questions more I might haue moved,  
But here I cease, fearing to bee reproved:  
For these few doubts I learned in divers places,  
Thinking, ye clergymen would clear all cases.   Priest. 

Now, Packe-man, I confess thou puts me to it:  
But one thing I will tell thee, if thou'lt do it:  
Thou shalt come to our holy prior, Packe-man,  
And he perhaps will buy all on thy back, man:  
And teach thee better how to pray than any,  
For such an holy man there are not many.  
Bee here to morn, just between six and seven,  
And thou wilt find thyself half way to Heaven.   Packe-man. 

Content, said he, but there is some-thing more,  
I must haue your opinion in before:  
In-case the holy prior haue no leisure,  
To speak of every purpose at our pleasure,  
There was but one tongue at the birth of Abel,  
And many at the building up of Babel:  
A wicked work, which God would haue confounded.  
But when Christ came, all tongues again resounded,  
To build His Church, by His Apostles teaching.  
Why not in praying, as well as in preaching?  
Since praying is the true and full perfection,  
Of holy service: Saving your correction.  
So if our Lord to mine own tongue bee ready,  
What need I then with latin trouble our lady?  
Or if both in my prayers must bee in,  
I pray thee tell me at whom to begin?  
And to pray joyntlie to them both as one,  
Your latin prayers then are clearly gone:  
For PATER NOSTER never will accord  
With her: nor have mary with our LORD.  
If I get him, what need I seek another?  
Or dare he do nothing without his Mother?  
And this( Sir John) was once in question,  
Disputed long with deep digestion;  
Whether the Pater Noster should bee said,  
To God, or to our lady, when they prayed?  
When Master mere of learned diversity;  
Was Rector of our 
Of saint Andrewes.  university,  
They sate so long, they cooled all their Kaile,  
until the Master cook heard of the Tale:  
Who like a mad man ran amongst the clergy,  
Crying with many a Domine me asperge:  
To give the Pater Noster to the Father,  
And to our lady give the Avies rather.  
And like a Welsh-man swore by great saint Davies,  
Shee might content her well with creeds and Avies.  
And so the clergy fearing more confusion,  
Were all contented with the Cookes Conclusion.   Priest. 

Packe-man, this Tale is coined of the new.   Packe-man. 

Sir John, I'll quiter the pack, if 't bee not true.   

¶ again, Sir John, ye learned Monks may read,  
How Christ himself taught us of His own head:  
That every soul that was with sin oppressed,  
Should come to Him, and he would give them rest.  
Come all to me( saith he) not to another.  
Come all to me( saith he) not to My Mother.  
And if I do all as the Lord commanded,  
I hope her ladyship will not withstand it.  
And so, Sir John, if I should speak in latin,  
unto the Lord at Even-song, and at Matine,  
And never understand what I were saying,  
think ye the Lord would take this for true praying?  
No, that ye cannot: for ye may consider,  
My tongue and heart should pray to God together.   

¶ And hereupon ye shall hear what befell,  
To certain Clerkes, that latin well could spell:  
With whom by chance I lodged at an inn;  
Where an old wife vpon a rock did spin.  
And towards evening shee fell to, and prayed:  
But neither they, nor I, knew what shee said.  
One said, the Carling counterfeits the Canting.  
Another said, It's but the Matrons manting.  
Some called it Gibbers, others called it Clavers.  
And still the Carling speaks, and spins, and slavers.  
Now, good Sir John; what think ye of this hussy?  
Where was her heart, when her hands were so busy?  
In end, one said, Dame, wot ye what ye say?  
No, not, saith shee, but well I wot I pray.  
ye pray, said he, and wots not what, I grant:  
Alace, how can ye bee so ignorant?  
The Matron musing little at the motion,  
said, Ignorance is Mother of Devotion  
Then Dame, said he, if Ignorance bee the Mother,  
darkness must bee the Daughter, and none other.  
prayed ye, said he, when all the time ye span?  
What reck of that? saith shee, God's a good Man,  
And understands all that I say in latin:  
And this I do at Even-song and at Matine.  
Alace, Sir John, was not this wife abused,  
Whose soul and senses all were so confused?  
You know these unknown tongues can profit no man:  
And one tongue is enough for any Woman.  
But when one prays in true sincerity,  
As God commands, in spirit and verity;  
The heart sends up the Tongue as Messenger,  
unto the Lord a pleasant Passenger.   Priest. 

But, Packe-man, here's a pretty little book,  
Where-in if thou wilt listen for to look;  
Set out by a true catholic Divine,  
And out of doubt will settle thine engine.  
faith, read it, Packe-man, for it is but little.  

Printed 1623.  The Gadge of the new Gospel, is its Title.  
he clearly proves, by 
Luke, 1. 9. 10.  Zacharies example,  
When he did sacrifice( Within) the Temple,  
And all the people stood and prayed( Without)  
They knew not then what tongue he spake, no doubt.  
Ergo, the mess may both bee said and sung,  
In other language than in Mother-tongue.   Packe-man. 

Sir John, I see your holy catholic,  
Vpon the truth hath put a pretty trick.  

Of A●…  Haue ye not heard this proverb oft times sounded,  
Homo qui male audit, male rotundit?  
So if the people heard not what he said,  
How could they know in what language he prayed?  
Since understanding cometh by the ear,  
he cannot understand that doth not hear.  
Or how proves this, that zachary the Priest,  
Spake latin, then, the language of the Beast?  
Were any Liturgies under the Law,  
But in that tongue that all the Iewes did know?  
What ever he spake, himself sure understood it:  
And so, your catholic hath ill concluded:  
Because a learned Priest may pray in latin,  
And mumble over his Even-song, mess, and Matine.  
Ergo, a Packe-man to the Lord may pray,  
And never know a syllabe he doth say.  
For when ye put me to my Pater Noster,  
I seek an Egg, and ye give me an Oster.  
And so, Sir John, I haue given you a Wadge,  
That's good enough for your Now Gospels Gadge.   

¶ Last: since wee say that God is good to speak to,  
Who will both hear our Text, and hear our eke to:  
What if he answer me in latin tongue;  
Where-in I pray, and where-in mess is sung?  
I must say, Lord, I wot not what Thou sayest;  
And he'll say, fool, thou wo●st not what thou prayest.  
Even, Lord, say I, as good Sir John did teach me.  
Sir John, saith he, a Priest unmeet to preach me:  
Or in your meshant mouths once for to name me;  
with different tongues& hearts. Such Iocke such 
So was the Packe-man name.  Iamie.  
For tho I know more tongues than ye can tell,  
False knaves, should ye not understand your sell?  
gave I you not a tongue as well as heart,  
That both to me should play an afolde part?  
But like two double Devils ye haue dissembled.  
At this Sir John he quaked, and he trembled,  
And said, Good Packe-man, thou art so quick witted,  
unto the prior all must bee remitted.   

¶ And so the Packe-man past unto his Lodging,  
Having with-in his heart great grief and grudging.  
Some-tymes he doubted, if the monks were men,  
Or Monsters: for his life he could not ken.  
he said, Sir John was a faire fat fed ox.  
Some-tyme he thought he looked like John knox.  
But knox was better verst into the bible;  
A study that Sir John held very idle.  
They dive not deep into divinity,  
And trouble them little with the trinity:  
And are more learned in the Legendarie,  
In lives of Saincts, and of the lady mary.  
The only idol they embrace and kiss a,  
Is to prove servants unto mistress Missa.  
With such conceits the Packe-man past the night,  
With little sleep, until it was day light.   

¶ And by the peep of day he early rose,  
And trimd him fynelie in his holy dayes Hose:  
And to Sir Iohns own Chamber strait he went;  
Who was attending. So with one assent,  
They hied them to the prior both in hast;  
To whom Sir John began to give a taste,  
Of all the Questions that had past among them.  
he called them heretics, both, and vowed to hang them.  
With that the Packe-man hurled throw the Closter,  
And there he met with an ill favourd Foster:  
Who quickelie twind him, and all on his back:  
And then he learned to pray, shane fall the pack:  
For if they haue not fred me of my sin,  
They send me lighter out, than I came in.  
And still he cried, shane fall both Monks and Frayers,  
For I haue lost my pack, and learned no Prayers.  
So farewell have, Creed, and Pater Noster:  
I'll pray'n my Mother-tongue, and quite the Closter.   
FINIS,  
QVOD SIS.  
 printer's device of Edward Raban [not in McKerrow] 
E R    

 device or ornament  
 device or ornament