THE SECOND PART OF THE demoniac WORLDE, or world possessed with divels, containing three Dialogues:  

1. Of Familiar divels.  
2. Of lunatic divels.  
3. Of the conjuring of divels.   
Translated out of French into English by T. S. Gentleman.  
❧ Imprinted at London for John Perin, and are to bee sold in Paules Churchyard, at the sign of the Angel.  
1583.   

¶ To the right worshipful Sir John Higham, Knight, increase of al heavenly and spiritual gifts, to the advancing of the glory of God, and the benefiting of his Church: together, increase of true worldly Worship here in this life, and in the world to come, perfect bliss and felicity for ever.  
having once purposed with myself( Right worshipful) to haue put into our Englishe tongue, certain French Dialogues of M. Peter Viret his setting forth, a man known to the world, to haue been in his time singularly well learned,& very godly, and such a one, as hath published many other books, to the glory of God and benefit of his Church to all posterity to come: and being prevented of three of them, by reason they were gotten into their English livery, before such time as I took them in hand: I was therfore eftsoons driven to bee contented, with the finishing of these last three: the Dialogues are six in number,& by mine author entitled by a general name, called The demoniac world: Or the world, possessed with divels: giuing besides, to each Dialougue, his several title also, as by the reading over of thē, may well appear. The Arguments are very pretty, and the handling of them( in my poor opinion) well worthy the reading, and both pleasant, and profible. Insomuch( Sir) as that when I had made an end of these three, minding to make choice of some sufficient patron which were of good worship, and of power able, in knowledge both in divinity and humanity wise, and in zeal and affection, willing and forward about the advancing of the glory of God, especially in the cause of true and sound religion, for the shielding of this my simplo travell: called to remembrance( amongst the rest of such Gentlemen as I was acquainted withall) your worship, to whom I might address the same: having therwith this confidence, that you will most willingly patronise and defend it. And hereupon, humbly craving pardon for this my boldness, I cease to trouble you with over many words, committing you and al yours to the tuition of the most high.  
Your W. most humble in the Lord. Tho. Stocker. London the 25. of March. 1583.   

The Title and sum of the fourth Dialogue.  
THis fourth Dialogue is entitled, Familiar divels, because it maketh mention of the subtleties whereby satan persecuteth the Gospel, under show of friendship and familiarity to the seruants of God. These divels are of the kind of those which before I called White divels, and therefore they may very well bee placed alike. And as for the matters here treated of in this Dialogue, there is mention made of the contradiction, that is in the devil, and the wicked: Of the commendation which they give to the good to an evil end. And contrariwise, how they discommend and dishonour al such as praise and honour Christ, his seruants, and Gospel.  
The manner howe the papists honour the Gospel, and of the true honour, or dishonour that may be done to the same.  
The honour that the enemies of Christian discipline do to the Gospel, which they profess only in the lips.  
The Sorceresses devil of Philippi.  
The praise and commendation which the devil giveth to the ministry and ministers of the Gospel.  
The means wherewith the devil useth to fight against the Gospel.  
The devil transfigured into an angel of light.  
Of the troth which the devil may speak, and how we ought to judge of the troth.  
Of the feigned friendship that certain shorne hypocritical Balamites show unto the gospel, that they might thereby hinder the course thereof.  
What favourable accusations the enemies of the Gospel are wonted to use against the true seruants of God.  
Of the diuers and sundry false shows which the devil maketh.  
What good affection the wicked bear unto God and good men.  
Of the charity of Iudas.  
With what colour the maintainers of Antichrist use to colour their false religion.  
What jolly shifts they haue, that glory of the profession of the Gospel, and yet follow the old manner of popery.  
How they condemn the Gospel, before they know any cause why.  
The feigned friendship which the enemies of the truth use towards Princes.  
What favour the wicked find among magistrates.  
What regard Magistrates ought to haue to Backbiters& slanderers.  
What great mischief is ordinarily done unto the servants of God.  
What the causes are why men cannot abide nor away with the servants of God.  
The iudgement of God for our unthankfulness of despising& hating of the troth:& of the power and force of illusion and error.  
What the causes are, why we rather follow lies then truth.  
The lets that hinder us from the knowledge of the truth.  
What kind of men they bee, unto whom, Iesus Christ is a teacher and a schoolmaster.  
The preservatives against error and false doctrine.   

❧ The fourth Dialogue of the demoniac world, name Familiar divels.  
Theophrast, toby, jerome, Eustace.  Theophrast. 
ACcording to our former talk, of those which are contented with the show of the gospel only, methinks that if we somewhat narrowly look into their behaviour, we shal find thē not much unlike to that demoniac, of whom S. mark and S. Luke both make mention.  tub. 
How behaved he himself?  Theo. 
In his behaviour, he shewed himself clean contrary to himself.  tub. 
It is no great marvel if the divell be contrary to himself, but it were rather to be marveled at, if he 
The devil contrary to himself.  should not be so: for that he is both a liar,& also a deceiver. But wherein doth he graynsay himself?  Theo. 
he called our saviour Christ 
●arke 3. ●ike 4.  the holy one of God, if he be the holy one of God, than is he come to hallow us:& if he become to hallow us, he must of necessity 
●sus Christ ● holy one of ●od.  drive the devil from vs. For the divell is an unclean and filthy spirit, and clean contrary to all holinesse, and to the spirit of God, which is called holy, because it halloweth, 
●ath. 12.  yet the devil feareth nothing so much, as to be driven from us, for fear we should be sanctified of Iesus Christ, which is the holy one of the most holy.  tub. 
The wicked spyrits did manifestly show that, by the petition which they made to Iesus Christ, that he would not drive them out of the country.  Theo. 
We need to seek for no further proof hereof. For the devil desireth nothing so much as to entertain us in al filthiness and uncleanness, to the end that God might not be sanctified nor glorified in us, but be more and more dishonoured and blasphemed: And therefore doth this wicked spirit flatter Christ, giuing him the title that belongeth to him. doubtless he did this for two principal causes: The first, to bring Christ in suspicion, and to diminish his glory in seeming to praise him. The second to escape his hands by flattery, that he might thereby be accounted of him, as his friend.  tub. 
Me thinks this devill gainsayeth himself: for he desireth still to play his part, that is, to hinder us, and yet acknowledgeth Iesus Christ to be the same, which shal let him, and is purposely come into the world to the same end.  Theo. 
Yea he flattereth Christ, thereby to let him from executing his office, whilst he in the mean time might play his pranks. There are always many such divels among vs. For there are many that praise the true ministers of GOD and good men before their faces, whom they know well enough to be enemies to their vices: which they do not, for any love that they haue either to them or their virtues,( for they hate nothing more) but to get the more in favour, and that good men should not punish them as they deserve.  tub. 
They call them honest men, because they would hinder them, from doing the duty of honest men,& praise their virtues, to the end they should not use them.  Theo. 
Indeed, thou hast hit the nail on the head. And therfore least the seruants of God and virtuous men, should make them liars, which so praise them, they cannot do better then faithfully execute their charge, and show the duty of good men, as well towards them, as towards all other: even as Iesus Christ did towards these Diuelles, which praised him so much. For in casting out these Diueis, he shewed in effect, both to the Diuelles and to all other, that he was verily the holy one of GOD, and the son of the most high God.  tub. 
Tush man, that is not it that the divels and wicked ones would haue.  Theo. 
Why, we know this for certain, 
●f those kindes ●mē who give ● Iesus Christ ● the Gospel, ●ch titles as ●elong unto thē, ●cause they ●ould haue thē ●acke their duie.  that they are contented to give Iesus Christ and his faithful seruants the titles that belong to them, while they see no remedy to gainsay or resist. But they had rather that Iesus Christ& his, would be content with the bare name alone( as many other be)& not execute the office which belongeth thereto,& for which cause such names& titles are given them. For howe many are there in the world now a dayes: but chiefly in the Popish church, which are contented with the titles, and rents which they possess under colour of the said titles: not caring for executing the office which they are bound to, and whereof they bear the name?  tub. 
There are enough such of al sorts.  Theo. 
The divell was contented that Christ should be called the holy one of God, if he would not show the office of the holy one of God against him. So are there many in these dayes, which are content to praise the gospel, and to honour it with their mouths, and outward ceremonies: so that it be not looked on,& the doctrine therein contained bee not published& practised. We haue evident proof therof in the Popish mass: for it is marvelous to see what honor the mass giveth to the book of the gospel, when it is song,& specially in high masses. When the gospel is song, there is sensing, torchlight, 
Of the honour which the Papists give to the Gospel.  kissing of the book, standing up: always provided, that the Gospel be song or said to the people in an unknown tongue, and not in such sort to bee uttered, as that the virtue and efficacy thereof bee manifested unto the heartes of the people. Is not this a great subtlety of satan, to show such honour to the Gospel, to the end it might bee the more dishonoured? For the 
● the honour, ●ich the ene●es of the dis●line of the ●spel give to ● Gospel.  greatest honour that the Gospel can haue, is to be printed in the heart:& contrariwise the greatest dishonour that may be done unto it, is, not to receive it with true faith, and to be careless of the understanding, and effecting thereof.  tub. 
This then I perceive to be thy drift to prove, that we honour the Gospel in 
●hat the true ●iour, and dis●our of the ●spel is.  our mass, as the divell honoured Iesus Christ, when he called him the holy one of God, meaning thereby to put him from doing of that his duty which God his father had commanded him to do.  Theo. 
I will not give a point to choose. For, is not that which you do, a very mockery unto Iesus Christ and his Gospel?  tub. 
Thou comest very fast stil upon vs. But I pray thee tell me, is there none amongst you that playeth the like divels part?  Theo. 
Yes I warrant thee, too too many: But they play it after an other sort: For there are some, who are contented to suffer the minister of the Gospel preach the pure word of God, yea, and to haue ministers also, and to maintain them: so they enforce them not to the practise of the gospel. Wee spake before of those that withstood the discipline of the Gospel. Of which there are two sorts: The first of them, are they, that cannot abide, that any should speak, preach, or writ thereof: The second sort of them are they which are contented to hear with all that, so there bee no talk of the execution thereof. But the worst is, that among these, there are some, that do not only withstand the execution therof on themselves, but also hinder those that would be contented to receive it, and will not suffer them so to do.  tub. 
Why do they so? Me thinketh it enough,& in dead too much for themselves to be rebels against God& his word, although they hindered not the obedience of others.  Theo. 
I think they do it, because they fear, least, after the others were brought to that discipline, they also might bee enforced thereunto. For there are many that would not greatly care though other men lived never so uprightly, so that they themselves might be at liberty to do what them listed.  tub. 
I wonder at those men. For if they think the doctrine good, that is preached unto thē, why suffer they it not to be practised& put in execution: if they think it not good, why suffer they it to be preached, and specially, seeing they haue authority and power to stop the same?  Theo. 
No doubt of it, there are too too many( as we haue before said) that would gladly stop it, if they durst: were it not for fear they should be accounted ancients& open enemies to God. But because they see, that they cannot do it but to their great reproach& shane, they are like the devil, who is contented to take Iesus Christ for the holy one of God, so he may be stil a devil,& continue in the self same state, wherein Iesus Christ found him. And therfore when they are enforced, as christ enforced this devil, they cry out as he cried,& show their secret hatred to the truth of God,& fall a threatening& persecuting of his true seruants, when as they perceive that they can neither by fair speeches, nor yet hypocrisy, obtain their desire.  tub. 
And therefore it is nought every way,& waxeth stil worse& worse. You make a iest at us,& say, that we on our side honor the gospel outwardly, but that we neither care for the understanding therof, nor living thereafter. And I beseech you, wherein is your side any whit better? For they are contented the Gospel should be preached, and the sense thereof expounded, so they hear it not, or if they hear it, so they follow it not, no more than we. Thus we are both well pleased with the name of Christian, and gospel, but we neither care either for the duty of christianity, or yet for the fruit that wee should receive by the gospel.  Theo. 
So say I to: For we are all contented that Iesus Christ should bee the holy one of GOD, so he hallow us not.  To. 
Hereby we may easily perceive, that the divell, which gave this title to christ, is not yet out of the world.  Theo. 
As much may be said of that other devil in the sorceress of Philippi, 
Acts. 16. The devill of Philippi. The commendation, which the devill giveth to the mynisteri of the gospel.  of whom we spake before. For GOD knoweth howe little pleasure the divell which possessed her took, in the ministery of paul and Sylas, and yet he praised them and their ministery, and extolled thē to the people of Philippi to the uttermost.  To. 
Surely, it is to be marveled at, that the father of lies would praise and extol before men, the truth, which he hateth above all other things.  Theo. 
Yea, but here is a further matter then all this. For, thou seest, that be doth not onely forbear to withstand, and openly resist the servants of God, but being also enemy to mans salvation, encourageth the people to hear the doctrine of salvation at the mouths of those, whom god hath appoynted to be the overthrow of his kingdom. To. truly, herein and meruailoussy changeth and altereth his nature: for where before time, he was wont with might and main, to withdraw men from the word of God: here he stirreth and provoketh them thereunto.  Theo. 
And yet that is not, his meaning was clean contrary, how glorious& 
The means which the Deull useth to fight against the gospel.  glittering a show soever he made. And therfore hereby thou mayst perceive, that commonly, the devill hath two strings to his bow to resist the truth.  To. 
Which be they?  Theo. 
The one is, in that, that he is a tyrant and murderer, he will, if it be possible resist the truth by force: and so use the string, because it agreeth jump with his nature: but if that string will not serve, he putteth on the other. To. What maner a one is that?  Theo. 
It is lying: for, he will by the, if he can, practise to come in credit: for that is as natural to him, as the first. But when he mindes to work by lying, he useth not always one way. To. How doth he than?  Theo. 
First, if he haue to do with ignorant men, in the word of God, and gross headed people, he thē bestirreth him to overthrow the truth by false doctrine, superstition, and idolatry, wherewith he disguiseth. the true religion. But, if that way will not serve his turn, he seemeth by& by to allow of the doctrine of the truth, and to be friend thereunto, to the end that under this colour, he may the more subtillye and secretly bring his enterprise to pass. And, although this enemy is always greatly to be feared, yet is he never so much to be feared, as when 
2. Cor. 11. The devil transfigureth himself into an Angel of light.  he useth thus to feign and gloze. For he never hurteth so sore, as when he transfigureth himself into an angel of light, which he can right well do.  To. 
I think that was the cause, why S. paul put the divell of Philippi to silence, as also why Iesus christ put those to silence, which praised him.  The. 
That is out of all doubt. For although, that these divels spoke the truth, in testifying that that was true, which both Iesus christ and his servants had spoken and done: yet is it not to be said properly, that they spake the truth, by reason of their intent, and the end which they pretended. For, where they 
●That truth it ● that the devil ● able to speak, ●nd to what end ● speaketh it.  outwardly seemed to induce the people to follow Iesus christ, by reason of the glorious words, which they gave out of him, they had a clean contrary purpose, to withdraw them from him.  Toby. 
How is that possible?  Theo. 
even by this mean. For, when the Diuelles use these kinds of words, they which hear them, either beleeue them, or not beleeue them. And if they beleeue them, they beleeue them not as if they were the Enemies of Iesus Christ, and of his servants: But do rather think, that there is great friendship, and a friendly agreement betwixt them.  
And therfore, if they thought Saint paul and Sylas to bee the servants of God, they might likewise think, that this sorceress was neither against them, nor yet they against her, but that they agreed all very well together. But if they believed them not, but took the wicked spirits, to bee wicked spirits in deed, that might haue brought a great slander upon Iesus christ and his servants, and upon their doctrine also: and so haue made them all to bee very greatly suspected, by reason they had the testimony of such witnesses.  Toby. 
Then I perceive that the devill is always ready to serve his own turn at a pynch.  Theo. 
Assure thyself of that. For, if he and his testimony were rejected, they whom he had commended, should also for the same cause, bee rejected with him for company: and yet he himself in, the mean while, not bee rejected at all. For he would still keep his possession in those, who had forsaken Iesus christ and his, under another colour. And therfore if they were entertained, the devill would also be entertained with them: and so by that means, he should be in truth, and in deed, entertained: and Iesus christ, his doctrine, and servants, but in show, and for fashions sake. For, Iesus Christ and his adversary, are not to bee entertained both at once, neither hath he any familyaritie and common abode and dwelling with him.  Toby. 
here is a marvelous subtle pollycie, and crooked nature of the devil, being therein so compounded with leasing and untruth, as that he turneth the truth itself into lying, and maketh the truth to bee no more truth, when it once cometh out of his mouth. 
The truth, not truth.   Theo. 
You say very tru●lye. For, truth, to speak properly, consisteth not in the bare words spoken, but in the meaning, for which cause they are uttered. And therefore he speaketh not the truth, which saith not the truth, but onely to lie, and deceive.  
And besides, wee are not to take for truth, the truth that is mixed with lying. For, in this case, the truth is now no more truth, but only a false colour of truth, and without any substance therof, for the colouring of a lie. And therfore, 
How wee oug● to judge of th● truth.  when we are to judge of the truth, wee must not judge only according to the words which wee hear, nor yet take them by halves, but receive all the partes together, and so look to what end and purpose they were spoken.  Toby. 
If this, that thou speakest off were well looked unto, wee should never haue so many men seduced and leadde away from the truth, as daily wee see.  Theo. 
Why, I will tell thee, we need 
The honour which the Papists do to Iesus Christ, is t● dishonour him.  not seek any further for examples, concerning this matter, thē to the Romish church. For, the Pope and his false Prophets haue used the self same cunning, which the devils used at Philippi: besides others also, who haue made as glorious a confession of Iesus Christ. For the holy scripture attributeth nothing to Iesus Christ, and to his church, which they do not also attribute unto him, in plain& bare words. For, ther is no praise nor commendation, which the Prophets, Apostles, and Martyres ever gave unto him, that they likewise give not unto him: And yet Iesus Christ and his church haue not more cruel enemies, that more villainously blaspheme, nor more cruelly persecute them, then these men, which fain themselves to bee their greatest and dearest friends.  
They will give al the praise that a man would wish them, both to Iesus Christ, to his Church, and to his gospel, and yet in all the rest of their dealings, they make no reckoning of them: but only in feigning themselves to be their friends and defendours, and so by that means they deceive the world, and advance themselves far above Iesus Christ, and his Church.  
And in so doing, they make war with Iesus christ, at his own proper coast and charge.  
And this course also took Mahomet, 
Mahomet, and the Pope, the Deuille●●ollye counter●eitors.  when he first began to deliver his law. For if he had not spoken well of Iesus Christ, of his Prophetes, and Apostles, he had never had such a train following him as he hath had. But he advanced, and set forth the praises of Iesus christ& of his, thereby to overthrow Christian religion, and say a foundation, whereon to build his false religion with some apparance of truth.  tub. 
What? thinkest thou that there are not more then those which thou hast spoken of, who haue put this matter in practise?  Theo. 
Why? a man shall hardly see any other thing practised at this day in the 
Shorne mon●sticall hypocri● feign themselu● to be friends ● the gospel, th● they might the● by hinder the course thereof.  world. For, to answer to the first point, we see that ever sithence that God hath caused at this day, the light of his holy gospel to shine amongst us, that there haue an exceeding pestilent number of monks and friars, and others of that rabble entred, who haue, and daily do, Iustily play their partes. For so soon as they saw, that their beggarly wallet brought them not home, so notable a revenue as in tunes past it did, and that they were not in such honor and reputation as before indeed they were, by preaching of their fables and lies, they then baganne to counterfeit to bee Christian, and Gospellike Preachers. For, some of them, forsook their cloisters, and became to serve in Churches, where they understood they might live with greater liberty, and so clean cast off their cowl and weed when they were gotten out. And some of them continued amongst those people, who as yet had not the sincere ministery of the gospel free amongst them. These men ware some part of their monastical weeds, and cast some outward part of thē clean off. And so by this their hypocritical dealing, they had recourse unto many good houses and Churches, whereinto they had not been as yet received, if they had not made some show to haue been friends, and not enemies, and persecutors, as commonly they are, who vow themselves to these damnable sects. Howbeit they had no sooner set in footing, but that they shewed a cast of their office,& what love they bare to Iesus Christ and his gospel. For, then they shewed themselves whether they were shorne monasticals or not, and with what spirit they were guided. And there are at this day anexceeding shameless number, who both on the one side& the other, play their parts in this pageant,& such in dead, as trouble more the churches, then all the rest of the enemies, which they can possibly haue. Howbeit, I mean not here, to find fault with such good men, as with good tokens haue forsaken these damnable sects,& behaved themselves as the good seruants of God, of which, god be thanked for thē, there are a great number. And therefore, it is very needful for all men to take good heed of these transfigured shorne monasticals, who haue thrust themselves into the church as Apostles& ministers of the gospel, to the end men by them bee not lightly deceived.  tub. 
I know not after what maner thou handelest these shorne monasticals, of whom thou speakest,& many others such like, who daily join with you: but this I right well know, that there are an exceeding shameless number of thē, who haue no great good liking of you, nor yet of your Churches, and namely of the most famous, virtuous, and learned among you.  The. 
Why man, they must needs make an end of playing out their whole pageant, which they haue begun,& that the end of their sport jump with the beginning.  
For, seeing they haue begun to play the jolly divels, and haue so entred by hypocrisy and dissimulation, it must necessary follow, that they must in the end discover the jollity therof, as the devil of Philippi did. For, when he saw himself discovered, and laid wide open, and that all his flattery and dissimulation would do him no good, and that Saint paul and Silas had no will to tarry with them, nor yet come 
The false show ●f the divell, is ●irned into fury  near them, he turned all his flattery into fury, and so manifested himself to be even such a one as in dead he was. For, so soon as he was come out of the chamber maid, he ran vpon the masters, and entred so far into them, as that he made them stark mad. And in so doing, he played another maner of part then the first was. Now, there are a great many which play the like parts. For so long as a man will let them alone to bee as they are, or not discover them, they will be very mild and gentle: but if the pastime be for a good round sum of money, and that they see any man go about to take it from them in good earnest, then lay they open the devil whom before they kept close under so goodly a show& countenance. There is also another sort of them,& they will never tarry until such time as they be driven to that extremity: But so soon as they may once understand, where they may get into a warmer kitchen, and bee better fed, away they pack thence, and shake hands with the gospel, which they made show they meant to haue followed.  Toby. 
In very deed, I haue right well understood, that there haue been too too many of such, who after they had once made so jolly a show, haue well enough raled up diuers benefice, when as they might well rak them, and then haue quite and clean lea●t the gospel, and kept themselves altogether occupied about them.  Theo. 
There is no doubt of it, but that such hypocrites find benefice enough, to rak up before such time as they would be found. But here is the worst matter of al the rest: that for as much as they are revolted from the Gospel, they prove the greatest enemies that the gospel can possibly haue.  tub. 
But to return to this divell whereof thou erst spakest, that was at Philippi, he was not yet carried away with such a fury, but that he right well could tell how to play the pageant, which he had enterprised to play. For he covered himself with a right favourable colour towards al men. For, whereas before he had so greatly commended S. paul& Sylas, together their doctrine& ministery, he soon after accused them to be mutinous& seditious fellowes, who went about to overthrow all politic and public order& government,& abolish 
● favourable ac●sation against and seruants of ●od.  the laws and state of life of the country, which had from time to time been received and allowed of all men,& besides, that they troubled the public peace,& all the whole world.  The. 
Thou mayest thē perceive by that with what affection he so greatly commended them before. For this is always one and the self same devil. For, he did but only 
The divell hath ●iuers vizers.  change his vizer, to play another part, in the person of the masters of that maid the ●orceresse, as he had before played in the person of the said maid. For, he had mastered both the one and the other. And because he feared that that should not com● to pass, which came to pass, he transfigured himself as thou hast heard. But when he saw, that he was put beside his hope, he strove another way, against the seruants of God. And herein we see that, which before was spoken of the possessed, who are possessed with the devil, by reason of their sins, although they seem nothing less, then to be possessed with divels. For, wee evidently see in this place, how the devil made these Philippians become men possessed with wicked spirites, by whom, he raised up all the whole city, but chiefly the magistrates, against the seruants of God. And in this dealing, he had 
The wicked ● the evil which they themselves do to the charge of the godly.  recourse unto his ancient practices, whereof we haue heretofore spoken. For, he accuseth these holy men, of the self same thing which he himself did, by those wicked men whom he had possessed with divels. For, he accused the Apostles of sedition and mutente, and railed on them, as though they had been the public enemies of peace, and of all good order. For,( quoth he) who haue 
The notable affection, wherewith the wicked are mouth.  been the cause of this hurly burly in the city, but these seditious fellowes? And who hath stirred up the people hereunto, but their covetousness?  tub. 
In very dead, he that had heard them speak, would haue said, that they greatly loved the romans, who were their Lords and heads, and generally al the whole country, and that they mightily feared, that sone hurt might come unto it, by the mean of paul and Sylas.  Theo. 
As you say in deed, for when Iudas found fault with the loss which the 
The great cha●tie of Iud●s. Math. 20. mark. 14.  poor had, by reason of the ointment that was spent vpon Iesus Christ, who would not haue greatly allowed and liked of his reasons, if he had but onely regarded his words? Howbeit, Saint John rightly 
●ohn. 12.  discovereth his hypocrisy, when as he saith, That Iudas spake not those words for any compassion that he had on the poor, neither yet of any desire that he had that the money which might haue been had for the ointment, should haue been bestowed vpon them: but he spake those words, because he himself was a thief. And therefore, desired that this money might come thorough his hands, to the end he might purloin some part of it to his own use. And even so fared it with these Philippians, of whom we now spake. For, they cloaked themselves with a certain care which they had of the full and whole preserving and maintenance of the good laws and policy of the Country: But Saint Luke setteth forth the secrecy 
Act. 16.  of their disease, saying: That they did it, because they were angry for the loss of so great a gain which they received thereby.  tub. 
By this may easily be perceived what their affection was that they bare unto the country.  The. 
In dead here was the love which they had unto the country, forsooth, it grieved thē that they could no longer abuse thē of the country, by robbing& spoiling it, by mean of the sorceres,& her familiar devil, as heretofore they had done. Now, if I should say unto thee, I pray thee consider, whether the Pope& his supposts do not the like, I know thou wouldest answer me,& say, as heretofore thou hast oftentimes answered me, I pray thee also consider, if your men who so greatly glory in the reformation of the Church, do not as much.  tub. 
Thou sayest truly, and so I would in deed. 
The colour● which the suppostes of Antichrist use, for the defence of their religion.   Theo. 
And yet thou canst not possibly deny it, but that the Pope& his, do cloak their tyranny, ambition, and covetousness, with such colours. It is well enough known, that the more part of thē, care no more for God, nor yet for any religion whatsoever, then the very Epicures: And yet when a man shal hear thē speak, a man would say that they were so fervent and zealous about the maintenance of the church, ancient laws, councils,& canons of the ancient fathers, as it is possible for men to be. And yet there are none, who dare more boldly and shamelessly infringe& break thē, then they which call themselves the preservers of the same. It seemeth, that they tremble with fear, for the destruction of christendom, and yet there are none that go about to overthrow it sooner thē they, no,& if all the enemies of christendom besides were gathered together, they could not all( I say) do more for the overthrowing thereof.  tub. 
In very deed, I cannot gain say that, which thou hast said: But yet I pray thee, say something also of your own sort.  Theo. 
True it is, that this divell who dealeth in this maner, amongst the favourers& abettors of the Romish antichrist, transfigureth himself after another maner of sort amongst vs. For, it is out of all question, that the Popes, Cardinals, Bishops, priestes, friers,& al the rest of that rabble, do what they can, to make kings, princes, and potentates understand and beleeue, that yf they take not some good order for the rooting out of those whom they condemn for heretics, they are in great hazard of losing their kingdoms and dominions. Howbeit they fetch most of their colours from religion, and from the ancient councils& canons, and the desolation and destruction of the 
The Imitation that is between the papist, and those which bra● of the gospel.  church of Christ. But our people, who are lead with the same spirit, dare not arm themselves with the name of the church, against the true ministers, but come armed with the laws and ordinances of princes and governors, to make war against God. For, if a man lay the word of God before, they will in no wise meddle with that. For, they dare not openly, once quetch against that, as before we haue said, but by and by allege their reformation, and disputations and ordinances. And so, under the shadow thereof, they condemn the true Ministers of the lord, not for that they haue done any thing against God: But because they will not agree to the statutes& tradions of men, but would haue them to be tried& over ruled by the word of God.  tub. 
Why, thē they do even as I heard thee once find fault withal. For, there are some countries, wherein princes haue forbidden any man once to speak of this new law,& that no man should bring in any new religion, vpon pain of losing his life. Then soon after that these laws were made, if it had so fallen out that any man had been charged to haue been heard once speak of the word of God, as thou now speakest, and had done any thing, otherwise thē according to the old religion, the question was never asked, whether this man had either spoken or done well or amiss. But it was enough if any man could haue said, he hath done against the law of the prince of the country.  Theo. 
In dead, Daniel was cast into the Lions den vpon such a complaint, because he choose rather to obey God, then the wicked edict of the king.  tub. 
Me thinketh, that they do the like amongst you in some places.  Theo. 
If we here well consider the words of the mutinous Philippians, we shal almost find the like in these our dayes, aswell amongst the papists, as also amongst those which 
The Go● condemned th●row preiudi● without know● of the cause. Act. 16.  make war against the gospel, and yet do brag of the reformation thereof. For these mutinous people, namely said: These men go about to overthrow& abolish, those laws& ordinances, which are not lawful for us to alter, because we are romans. They deal here marvelous maliciously. For they here go about, through their own prejudice, to make the cause of the seruants of God to be so hateful& so suspected, as that it cannot be heard in iudgement, nor yet be talked of. And even so, deal the papists altogether with vs. For, they sand us to old customs, old councils, and to the consent of the whole church, a great number of yeres past, to the end our cause should neither be reasoned of, nor yet heard, but to be condemned before the cause and known. And they amongst us which will bend themselves against the seruants of god,& oppose themselves against the true discipline of the church, make even as great warres. But if there be a matter in question but of the value of 10. or 12. s. I warrant you there is neither party, but shall be heard at large, either in their propositions, oppositions, replies,& triplies, and in whatsoever they can, or are able to allege. But if it be a matter which concerneth the minister of the gospel, the word of God, the church,& consciences of all men, it falleth out many times, that iudgement is given,& the party never heard. For, in such a case, they need bring in no better matter, then a false report, or some evil suspicion, for the condemning of a good cause, without being either hard or yet well known. It is enough if it be slanderously reported, that it is against the reformation or laws of princes,& yet it shalbe taken out of the sincere word of God. And so by that mean they will not leave so much as any one place, either on the one side, or yet on the other, for the word of God, or for the truth therof, but must always become subject to the traditions of men, if any man will so proceed therein.  To. 
sith the case so standeth, me thinketh the one of us should not so soon war against another as we do. For, if we do ill, you do even as ill. And therfore, if thou wil● say, that the philippiā diuelis amongst us, we may also as boldly say, that he carrieth not so long with us, but that he cometh now& then to you, and taketh his pleasure amongst you, that he might catch you with his cunning baits.  Theo. 
I must needs agree with thee in parte, but not in all, for there are some of us, who in dead, are very like the Iewes, that pursued Iesus Christ to death. For, every man 
There is b● counterfeit fren●ship most whe● amongst prince  knoweth, howe well the Iewes loved the romans, considering that they held them as cruel tyrants,& enemies to God, to their religion& to all their whole nation.  To. 
I suppose they loved thē so well, as that they wished them all hanged.  Theo. 
No doubt of that. And yet the Iewes so mortally hated Christ, and had so great a desire to be rid of him, and put him to some cruel death, as that it made them speak, as though they had been the best subiectes that the romans had in any part of the world. And yet scarcely had the romans greater rebels then they were. nevertheless, they stoutly and constantly maintained the laws of the roman empire, saying: that they had none other king but Caesar. For, they accused Iesus christ, 
John. 19.  as one that meant to invade Caesars kingdom, crying out and saying: That whosoever he was that spake against Caesar, was worthy of death.  tub. 
Wherefore speakest thou these words?  Theo. 
I speak them for this purpose. because we see there are some such in these our dayes, that love not their princes& lords one iote,& much less the true religion which their princes& Lords say, that they defend& maintain,& and yet for all this, these men will be the first that shal arm themselves with the laws& statutes of princes, against their pastors& ministers. And to the end that that which I say, might, by woeful experience, be the better perceived, we shall not need to consider of any other thing better, then of those who make themselves so zealous towards the laws of their Lords,& see howe heretofore they haue observed them, and yet do,& especially those laws which agree best with the word of the Lord. And if there be any rebels in all the countries, both against the word of God,& against all the good ordinances of their princes& Lords, they are the only men. For, all their talk, their lives, and conversations, do to too evidently witness the same.  tub. 
But by your leave, they make the greatest show to be the best observers of th●, as the Philippians did, who accused paul& his companion.  Theo. 
It is even all one. Howbeit, 
Magistrates over greatly favouring wi●ked men.  the greatest mischief that ensueth hereon, is this: that such wicked men find oftentimes as unjust and vndiscret Magistrates, as the Magistrates of Philippi. For, after that these Magistrates of Philippi had heard the false accusation that was made against S. paul and Sylas, they caused these two holy men to be whipped, without hearing of them what they could say for their defence: and yet were they not contented herewith, but caused them soon after to be sent to a most cruel prison, and there set them in the stocks.  Toby. 
They used but an ill order in that observing of the laws and customs of the Romaines in this point. For I am very well assured, that it was not the custom amongst the Romaines, to condemn and punish men, how wicked soever they were, but that they would first hear at large 
A most barbarous cruelty, to condemn a man, without hering his cause.  what their cause was, and what they could say for themselves. For, that it is so reasonable a thing, as that there is not so barbarous and inhuman a nation, unto whom the law of nature hath not taught this rule of right, equity, and Justice. Now, if the most blockish and vnciuile Nations of the world understood and knew this, no doubt of it, the Romains, who had been so greatly commended for their Iustice and other virtues, would not in this case, haue dealt more barbarously and vniustelye, then any other nation.  Theo. 
indeed S. paul, soon after 
Acts. 16.  made the Magistrates of Philippi understand this matter so well, as that he put thē in great fear: and had made them throughly felt their fault, if he would haue complained on them unto the Romains, as they well deserved it, and as he was very well able to haue done? For they, who had so 
The laws infringed by such as name themselves the chiefest observers thereof.  bragged, that they were the great observers of the laws of the Romains, and had punished such as were charged with the breach of them, should haue been well advised, before they had done any thing, not to haue broken those laws, wherewith they meant to arm themselves.  
And so, by the like reason, all Princes and Magistrates had need bee very charye, that if they will haue their laws and ordinances kept, not to be themselves the first breakers of them. For, although they haue no superiors to correct them for it, or if their superiors wink at them, yet will not. God suffer them go scotfree for all that.  
indeed the Philippians had superiors: But there was no body that  told thē of it, because there was none which complained unto them of the matter,& yet God would not let them go unpunished.  To. 
And me thinketh it also very requisite, that Princes and Magistrates do 
magistrates ought to haue great regard t● such as are reporters and ac●cusers.  not over lightly beeleeue all reports which are brought unto them, neither yet give over easy credit to such, as make show to be their great friends, and to be very careful of their honour and benefit. For, there are an exceeding number of such, who do it for none other purpose, but to flatter thē, that they might be the greater with them,& thereby discredit such men as they like not of, and of whom they seek to be avenged, by the means of such Princes and Magistrates. For, such then are not the best, nor the faythfullest kind of men, but the most slauyshe, disloyal, and most traitorous of all others: And therefore these villaynes would be the first that should beetraye them, and soonest forsake them, when as they thought to find others else where, that they might better serve their turns.  Theo. 
In very deed wee haue a manifest example of that which thou speakest, in these mutinous and seditious Philippians: For, how dangerously hazarded they their Magistrates, and their whole city, to be aduenged of S. paul and of his companion. And who loved better the Magistrates, the city, and all the whole country, and that were more careful of their honour and profit, either these mutyneus and wicked vagabonds, who accused S. paul and Sylas, or S. paul& Sylas, who were accused?  Toby. 
That is easily to bee judged. For, these deceitful Iackes and theeues deceived and robbed al the whole country, and cared for nothing else, but the fillyng of their purses. Where contrariwise, S. paul and Sylas hazarded their own lives, for the salvation of the Philippians, which was dearer to them then their own 
Acts. 16.  lives.  Theo. 
And as discreet as the Magistrate was, after he had greatly wronged 
The common iniquity of m towards these ●uants of God.  these good servants of God, and knew it well enough: yet for all that, in steede of amending the offence which he had committed, he procured these holy men to be banished the city and country, whom he ought rather to haue entertained, then any other. And kept in still the roges, that had wrongfully informed him against them, and had put in danger both their wealth and offices, and the whole loss of their dominion. And where he should haue expulsed them as vagabonds and roges, and so haue whipped them, he still retained them, as good Citizens.  
Thus wee see how the seruants of God are continually dealt withal here in this world, and that equity and right, that every man ought to haue, is not for them to be had: yea, and although they be found innocent and guiltless, yet shall they haue much to do, to get iustice administered unto them.  
again, although the wicked be found guilty, yet is it out of all doubt, that some shift or other will be made, continually to support them, and shall be sooner and better entertained and entreated, then the true 
●or whatcauses and servants of ●od are so mi●ked of world●ges.  servants of God: for every man is glad to be rid of them. For, the world thinketh it to be over hard and irksome a thing to live amongst them, and that there never cometh any goodness, where they are.  Toby. 
Certes, the world maketh that reckoning of them, as thou hast said, and yet, if they did well, they should judge otherwise of them.  Theo. 
Thou sayest truly indeed, but because the worldlings naturally love vices, more then virtues, and lying, more then truth, they deserve rather to haue seducers, vagabonds, theeues, and traytors, to seduce, rob, and betray them, then the true servants of God and good men, who would be faithful unto them, and faithfully procure their honour and benefit. And 
The iudgment of God against the unthankfulness of men. The force of the illusion of error for the punishment o● worldlings.  therefore, if God meant not thus to punish worldlings by his just iudgement, he would not lay the bridle in Satans and the wickedes necks as he doth, nor yet suffer thē to be so carried away with strong illusions and errors. For, from whence cometh it, that this devill, which so possessed this Philippian sorceress, could foretell and declare hidden and secret things? he could not haue done this but by the permission of God, and without God, had, in his just iudgement, given him this power and strength. For, it is written, that he gave a lying spirit into the mouths of Aachabs false Prophets, that ahab might be deceived 
1. Kings. 22.  by thē. Now, when the Lord gave the devill this licence, knew not he right well, that the devill thereupon might by that mean feduce? And did he not also know in what danger he put men, in so doing?  Toby. 
Why then gave he suchlicence unto the devill?  Theo. 
Forsooth, because he would by his just iudgement, punish the unthankfulness of men, as he himself witnesseth by Moses,& 
Deut. 13. Rom. 1. 2. Thes. 2.  S. paul, and namely in the Epistle to the Romains, and in the second to the Thessalonians.  Toby. 
That is the very cause, why many take occasion to find fault thereat, and thereby reject all religions as uncertain: and this is the reason, as they say, that there is such a confusion in them, as that a man cannot discern truth from falsehood.  Theo. 
But God hath well provided for that, to preserve his chosen from these 
●he elect of god and preserved ●om being se●ced.  dangers. And therefore, although false Christes and false Prophetes, do great things thorough the power of the devil, by which they may easily seduce al the whole world, yet Iesus Christ openly declareth, that his chosen cannot be so seduced by thē, 
●lath. 24.  but will continue in the truth even to the end. For, when he saieth, that if it were possible, the very elect should be deceived by such men: he doth us to wit, in what 
●ohn. 17.  safety his were, whom his heavenly father had given unto him. But, to the end thou mightest the better understand the iudgment 
The cause why ●en rather follow falsehood then ●rueth.  of God in this case, thou must consider and note, that if they which are seduced by these seducers had the true fear of God before their eyes, and such a love in their heartes, to serve and honour him as they ought, they should never fall into these errors, whereinto they fall. And therefore Iesus christ rightly toucheth their disease, who rejecting the doctrine of the truth, follow after leasinges: when as he saieth, The doctrine is not mine, but his, who sent 
John. 7.  me. And therefore, if any man will do his will, he shall know whether the doctrine be of God, or whether. I speak it of myself. His meaning in effect is this, that they which are desirous, rightly to understand the will of God to obey him, shall easily also aclowledge the doctrine, by which God declareth to men his will, that they might thereby accordingly bee instructed. But contrariwise, they that haue not this affection, are always finding of excuses, resting themselves always upon some false& unsound props, because they haue no good desire to come to the right& true stay, how glorious so ever their words be, and howe goodly a show soever they 
Hipocrisse tak● for Wised●me.  make.  tub. 
Yet by your leave Sir, there are a great many of ignorant people, and such indeed as persecute the truth, who never thelesse in all other things make a gllant show of honesty, and to be zealous and fervent in Gods cause.  Theo. 
I grant thee as much as thou sayest, that they are good people in show: But yet it is out of all doubt, that, all that their wisdom, and whatsoever zeal they haue in show, is mere hypocrisy and dissimuled devotion. For, to answer the first point, if they were of that sound hart, 
●ride and pre●mption, do ●nder the ●owledge of and truth.  and in such sort feared GOD, as they ought, they would be humble and modest. For, if they were humble and modest, they would not so proudlye and arrogauntly, conte●mie and re●ect the good servants of God, who bring unto them the truth, as they do: but would patiently hear,& receive them as the Angels or messengers of God. For, what a mighty number do wee daily see, that so presume of themselves, of their skill, wisdom and virtue, as that they think no man in the world to bee so able for their skill, to show any better matter thē that which they the selves haue already brought and delivered. And what a number also is there of such people, as are not contented alone with the despising of the servants of GOD, but likewise persecute and condemn them to death, without once hearing of thē speak? What religion thinkest thou these men to be of? Surely surely, there is no religion at alan them, but in show only, howsoever they dissemble their zeal towards the Church,& Christian religion. I promise thee for mine own part, I think that the greatest number of them, haue not 
What fear Pilate had ● God.  so great fear of God before their eyes, as desperate had.  tub. 
Why shouldst thou say so?  Theo. 
I will tel thee, because that after the Iewes had let Pilate understand, that 
John 19.  Iesus christ had called himself the son of GOD, and accused him therfore, as a Blasphemer, and worthy of death: It was so far off from him, that he was thereby the more moved to condemn Iesus christ, as that he was the more afearde therof, and was then more nice in the condemning of him, then he was at any time before.  tub. 
What meant he by that?  Theo. 
mark it well and thou shalt see, for although in all things else, desperate was a cursed and wicked Heathen man, yet was he not altogether so irreligyous, but that so soon as he heard him speak of the name of GOD, he was therewith moved, and did reverence him. And therefore, before he would 
John 19. Christians, not so religious as Pilate.  go any further, he again, far narrowlier examined Iesus Christ. And after he had heard him more at large, he was a great deal the rather desirous to deliver him, then ever he was before.  To. 
If he had continued stil in that mind, it had been much better for him.  Theo. 
That is true indeed. But because there was no true fear of GOD in him, neither yet had taken deep& good rooting in his hart, it forth with vanished clean away, when he was pressed to the contrary, and never receive to withstand the cruelty of the Iewes. And yet he shewed himself to bear more reverence unto the name of GOD, then a great many of those, who would at this day, be taken not only for Christians, but also for the very stays and pillars of the faith. For, although they know well enough, that the causes which come before them, concern the glory of GOD, and his church; yet haue they less care to give iudgement and condemn them, without further inquiring, what were the best way for thē to take, making lighter account of giuing iudgement on them, then of the least cause in the world, whether it were of a money matter, or of any other worldly thing whatsoever.  tub. 
If there were in them but that fear which they ought to haue, in condemning the cause of God, under the name and title of heresy, me thinketh they should therein, bee more circumspectly and discreet. And for mine own part, as ignorant& unlearned as I am, yet I ever abhorred these fire tormentors, who so little esteemed of the lives of men, especially in such a cause.  Theo. 
truly, if thy first reason which thou hast alleged would not serve them, me thinketh that the second which thou even now didst touch, might right well suffice, for them to cast, I will not say, a little water into their wine, but into their fires. For to take away the lives of men, is no small matter in the sight of the lord. But the offence is a great deal more heinous, when as men for Gods cause, shall take life away from such, as should rather bee preserved, and such also as should bee in most estimation, with Princes and Magistrates.  
Thus then thou seest what an inconueuience pride bringeth with it to those that are proud and arrogant: For, seeing they presume so much of themselves as that they will not once vouchsafe to entertain the servants of God, and to bee taught by them, as they had need, it is impossible for them to understand the truth, because they will at no hand understand it. And contrariwise, as Iesus christ shewed himself to bee the Teacher and master 
●esus Christ is ●hoolemaister ● the humble, ●nd not to the ●oude.  of the humble and meek, even so rejecteth he out of his school, all high inynded, proud, and presumptuous persons. And therefore he gave thankes to God his Father, in that he had revealed his will and truth unto the poor in spirit, 
●ath. 11. ●saiah. 66.  and hid it from the mighty and great men of the world. For, there are none but the poor and meek in spirit which are capable thereof.  
And therefore, the lord saith by the prophet Isaiah, Whom will I regard, but only the afflicted, and contri●e in heart and mind, and him, who trembleth at my words? saint paul also 
1. Cor. 5.  telleth the Corinthians, That the lord hath not called many wise, strong, rich, and honourable men of the world: But the most feeble, most vile, and most contemptible. It is also written, That GOD resisteth the 
1. Pet, 5.  proud, and giveth grace to the humble. And therefore saint paul; diligently admonisheth all Christians not to esteem, nor presume over much of themselves. 
Rom. 12. Philip. 2.   tub. 
True it is indeed, that humility and honour, seldom or never agree quietly together.  Theo. 
That is most true. For, whereas humilitte is not, there cannot be a teacheable, and well disposed heart to receive doctrine and discipline: Which thing saint Augustine confesseth to haue found in himself by experience, saying in this 
S. Aug. in his ●. book 5. Chap. of Confess.  manner. I then determined to apply my mind to the study of the holy Scriptures, that I might see what they were. And behold, I saw a thing that was never 
The confession of S. Aug. ●s concerning the pride, which hindered him from profiting in the holy scriptures.  known to the proud, nor opened to children, but was lowly in his going, and very high in his arryning,& which brought great profit, and hidden secrets. And as for myself, I was even such a one, as that I was not able to make any entrance into it, or yet stoupe so low, as once to be able to put my head into the intree therof. For I was not then of the opinion whereof I now speak, when I looked upon this piece of Scripture, but thought it unworthy to be compared to Tullies dignity. For, my great pride could not away with the baseness thereof, and therfore it fled from me: neither was my wit so sharp, as that it was once able to pierce into it, and yet it was such, as grew up amongst the basest and meanest. Howebeeit, I might haue vouchsafed to haue been lowly. And because I was high minded, I thought myself to be a great clerk. here wee see howe saint Augustine confesseth, that whiles be flattered himself, and esteemed so much of his own knowledge, and of the pride of his mind, as that he continually disdained and contemned the holy Scriptures. And although he had a mind oftentimes to give himself to the study of them, it was so far of that he found any taste or savour in them, as that he found less savour in them at that time, then he did at the first. For, he thought them to bee nothing in respect of the eloquence, and knowledge which he found in the books of tully and of the rest of the heathen Philosophers. But, after that this his pride was come down and abased, and the opinion which he had of himself and of his knowledge, he was of an opinion, clean contrary to his first: And then, he right well perceived, all human eloquence, and philosophy, to be no better then bladders stuffed full of wind, and of no substance in respect of the holy Scriptures: although to the outward appearance they made a far gallanter muster and show. And therfore, whiles the eyes of saint Augustines understanding were blyndfolded with the false opinion which he had of himself, he had the more hoodwinked them with this pomp& false appearance.  tub. 
There are at this day, a great many in the world, who are in the self 
There are many, that will counterfeit S. Augustines pride, but they will not follow his humility.  and same predicament, that saint Augustine was in, at that time. But I know not, whether GOD will give them that grace, which he gave unto him, to let them understand their pride, that thereby they might be humbled, and for the false opinion which they haue of their eloquence, knowledge and wisdom, to aclowledge themselves to be such fools, and blockeheaded beasts as indeed they are, to the end they might bee made apt and Teacheable Schollers in the school of the word of God. For, there are such a number of poetical brains,& so learned in the tongues and in human Philosophy: that they do not onely make small account of the books of the holy Scriptures, in comparison of their heathenish volumes: as that, which is of all other the most vile, they esteem of them no better, then of the dreams of old doatyng fools, and of doting old wives tales. And as fo●mine own part, let them haue as great knowledge as they will, until they burst withall, I will esteem of th● no whit the more, if they be not honest men, and haue the fear of God before their eyes.  Theo. 
Thou touchest now a disease, which at this day reigneth more then ever it did, yea, and that amongst such as bear the name of Christians, which is the cause that we haue so many Libertine atheists, 
Libertine Atheists.  who scorn and laugh at all Religions. And although they are not in truth, settled in any Religion, yet forsooth they would not bee thought to be utterly void of Religion. And therefore, because they are of no religion, they are nevertheless of all Religions, in what Countries soever they come unto. For, they shoot at none other mark, but temporising, or serving of times, with every man, a Papist amongst papists, an Epicure with Epicures, an Atheist, with atheists, and to be short, a devil amongst divels, for they will not be disquieted either in body or mind neither yet hazard either body or goods. And therefore, they will not greatly frame themselves neither after Iesus christ, nor after the Pope, neither after the gospel, nor after the mass, nor yet after any controversy that is at this day for Religion amongst Christians, without perhaps some of them sustain some particular loss thereby. For, if either gain, or loss fall ●ut unto them on either side, they will counterfeit zeal in that Religion which they think will bee most for their profit, and which they suppose will beste agree with that, which they desire to haue here in this life, as wee haue a manifest example, chiefly, in the Prelates and Beneficed men of the popish church. For, if they did beleeue that there were a GOD in heaven, and any true religion, whereby their life and conversation ought to bee governed, and that they should render an account thereof in the day of Iudgement, they would surely, be other maner of men, then in deed they are. howbeit, they right well show, as well by their doctrine, as also by their life and conversation, that they haue as much mind of God, as haue bruit beasts, and do as much esteem of the immortality of their souls, as of the souls of their horses and moyles. And therfore, all the zeal which they haue to their Religion, proceedeth not from any love which they bear thereunto, but on●lye to the honours, and great wealth which cometh unto them thereby. And therefore, when they see themselves in danger to loose thē, they either become manifest black divels, and begin openly to persecute, or if they haue any knowledge and eloquence, they strait way, play the iollye Balaamites. 
Libertine Balaamites.  For they commend themselves unto Antichrist to resist the truth of God, and maintain his false doctrine, against their own consciences: For, they themselves laugh him to scorn in their heartes, and do no more beleeue him, then those against whom they oppose themselves. But I fear me, I haue done them great wrong to compare them unto Balaam, because they haue not so much faith unto the true Religion, as Balaam had unto the Religion of the ancient church of GOD, neither haue they so great a regard to God, as he had. But they are as like him in all other poyntes, as like may bee, as in desire of honours, and worldly possessions. And therfore although they are in part, black divels, yet are they in nature, more like unto white and Familiar divels, where, the rest show themselves to bee altogether black Diuelles.  
howbeit, whatsoever vizers they put on, they are always in truth, very Libertine atheists, notwithstanding, that they seem outwardly the Followers of popish Religion. And there are others also, who are almost like them, even of those which follow the Gospel, if they knew they might any way gain thereby. But the most of that sort, serve in Kings and Princes courts. For, if kings and Princes favour the gospel, then they know, that 
●ibertine Courtiers.  if they favour it as he doth, that they shal come to greater dignity, or at least, be the better and more firmly established in that degree and honour wherein they stand, for, as they can court it well, so will they also be the first that shall make court to the gospel, and will bee come fair white, and familiar divels, amongst the very angels. But if a man should judge them by their works, fruits, and life, what gospel it is that they profess, it would be soon judged that they are very Libertine atheists. For, a man shall never find any reformation of life in them, which is the chief cause of the preaching of the gospel, and the principal mark to be marked and known by, in those who haue received the true faith, in the true fear of GOD, and in a good conscience. And so by that mean, all their Gospel willbe come a thing where with to scorn the Pope, his Priests, Friars, and the rest of his shorne Balaamites, and all the abuses of the popish church, and to make sport and pleasantly talk of them, especially in the companies of Ladies and Gentlewomen. And if the Gospel will give them any such liberty, whereby they may abuse it, into carnal liberty, they will be sure to lay fast hold thereon: and not stick to say, that they are not like unto those superstitious hypocritical papists, whom they laugh to scorn.  
Howbeyt, further they will not, but as for the rest of their life, it shalbe as dissolute, as the most dissolute papists, from whom they differ in nothing but in this, that they haue put on a vizar of the Gospel, that they might therewith the better cover their atheism.  tub. 
Thou hast hitherto spoken of Libertine atheists, who dissemble their atheism, under the colour of having some Religion in them, so far forth as it tendeth either to their commodity or discommodity. But there are some others, who because they cannot find any such occasion, become as it were neuter, being of neither side, as thou hast oftentimes said. And the 
●bertine new●rs.  chief men which march under this ensign, and that are of this band, are they which are puffed up with eloquence,& knowledge, and are drunken in their own wit and understanding: As saint Augustine confessed himself to bee, before such time as GOD had touched his heart with his holy spirit, which is the spirit of humility. But, although saint Augustine presumed thus of himself, by reason he was of so fine and quick witted a spirit, and of so very a sharp understanding, and excellent knowledge in humanity, as any man that ever lived in his time and age: yet was there always in him, some good seed of religion. But because he was an heathen man born, and therefore had not from his youth been brought up in the word of God: but onely in humanity and paganism, and in the Religion wherein he was born, he could not rightly judge of the true Religion, which he knew not. And the opinion which he had of himself, did so hinder him, as that he could not search after it, as he ought to haue done. And after that diuers, but especially his mother Monica, who was a widow, and became a Christian before him, a very good woman, and one that feared GOD, had exhorted and solycited him, to search after the holy Scriptures: those their exhortations stirred him up to the reading of the Bible. Howbeit he red it not so reverently as he should haue done, but rather for fashions sake, by reason he came not appoynted with that humilytie and modesty, which afterward he knew was meet for the disciples of the holy Ghost to come.  
But when God had rebated this his pride, with the spirit of modesty and humility, then found he that in it, which before he knew not how to find in it: And by that mean, he was so much the more humbled. Howbeit, these glorious arrogant men, of whom we now speak, who thus glory of their knowledge, and skill, are even the very scorners and contemners of God: for they never show, that ever they had the true fear of God before their eyes, nor yet any good seed of religion in them. For, there is a great many of them, who haue manifested themselves greater Atheists, after they had once gotten some knowledge of the gospel, then ever they had before, and since that time, haue ever less reverenced the word of God. For, the knowledge which they received by the entertaining of the gospel, served them to none other use, but to discover the Idolatries, superstitions, and abuses, which are in the popish Church, that they might laugh at them.  
And ever sithence that time, they are grown even unto this, that they are almost at the like point with the doctrine of Christian religion. For, as S. Paul said, They judge thereof, as the Grecians and wise 
●. Cor. 1.  men of the world, judged of Iesus christ,& of his Gospel: who thought the preaching thereof to be foolishness, because they were carnal men, and puffed up with an opinion of their own wisdoms.  
And because the Grecians, were always more accounted of then any of the rest of the Nations, by reason of their sharpness of wit, and of the knowledge which they had in the artes, in Philosophy, and in all other Letters of humanity, S. paul nameth them specially, although he comprehendeth under this name, all the rest of the heathen, as well appeareth by that, that he opposeth them to the Iewes, and separateth them also from the Christians, unto whom, as he himself witnesseth, Iesus Christ is the true wisdom, virtue, and power of God.  
now, if these Libertine Epieures and atheists, had been heathen born, as S. Augustine was, or, if they had as much religion in them, being Christians born, as he had in his paganism, they should never haue shewed themselves, to haue been so monstrous beasts, as in dead they are. But although in name, they are Christians born, they are to be accounted of, as if they had been born and bred amongst infidels and pagans, yea even amongst the Epicures, out of whose books they haue sucked and droonke, this profane spirit of Athiesme, who thus carrieth thē away.  
For, they haue yet less Religion in them, then ever had any of the heathen, who not onely did not approve their doctrine, but which is more, manifestly, both by word and writing condemned it, yea, and oftentimes executed thē by public iustice namely at Athens. For, when God giveth us over so far, he then by his just iudgement brutisheth us in the cause of religion. And 
●at it is to ●enne prayer.  therefore, that we shall not need any more to pray unto him, to beseech him, enlighten us with his holy spirit, in the knowledge of his holy word.  
But, over and besides, that david, and S. Peter, calleth the holy Ghost, the word 
●il. 19. 119. ● Pet. 1. ●hn. 16. ●al. 16. ●sal. 50. ●lat. 7. 18.  of the lord, a candle and lantern which lighteneth a dark place, and doth enlighten the simplo, yet there is onething more in it, which the Lord hath promised, that he will hear as many as shall call upon him in truth, be near them, and grant them his holy spirit.  Toby. 
This then is the effect of thy conclusion, that proud men, and such as call not vpon the Lord as they ought, for their instruction in the knowledge of his holy 
The iugdme●t of God against the ●ontempt and ●hating of his word.  will, haue no great good liking to serve him accordingly. And because they haue no such love and liking: but contrariwise will live as pleaseth them, God, in his just iudgement giveth them over into a reprobate sense, and leaveth them as a spoil unto seducers, and false teachers. Wherefore, they always receive and allow rather falsehood and error, then the truth of the Lord.  Theo. 
indeed, because they had no love nor liking of the truth, but rather of leasinges, the Lord by his just vengeance, hath given a mighty power of error unto such maisters as they haue a liking of, and such as they are best worthy of. And therfore when Moses admonished the people 
Deut. 13.  of Israel, that they should bew●re of false Prophetes, who might deceive them, he namely said, that the lord would tempt his people by false Prophetes, who should make great shows of truth: and he would do it to this end, to prove whether his people feared and loved him with al their hart, or not.  
Wherein he manifestly declareth, that they which had the true fear of God before them, and loved him indecde, would never receive the false Prophetes, and cast off the 
A preservative against errors.  law,& word of God, but always continue in the doctrine, which the Lord God had revealed unto them from heaven.  Toby. 
I thank thee, I now very well understand this point, and the cause also, why the devill every manner of way, hath so great power over us, as he hath. moreover, although we haue already spoken of many that are haunted with devils, yet 
lunatic, ●if, dumb, and ●nd Demoni●ques. ●at. 12. 17. ●ark. 9. ●uk. 11.  haue wee not all this while spoken any whit of the lunatic, deaf, dumb, and blind Demoniacques.  Theo. 
It is no great matter: For we will treat of them, when thou shalt think it best.   

The title and effect of the fift Dialogue, of the world possessed with devils.  
THis fifte Dialogue is called, the dialogue of lunatic devils: because the chief matter contained therein, treateth of a lunatic Demoniacque, of whom the evangelists make mention, and of such as may be compared to the same. And because there were many accidents, which fell out unto this Demoniacque, somewhat is also said, of deaf, dumb, and blind Demoniacques, and howe Iesus Christ healed them.  
What grace God granteth to men, by the preaching of the gospel.  
In what a dangerous estate they are, which are deprived of the gospel.  
Of the Prophecies, of the hardening and blynding of their hearts, which contemn the word of God.  
What power the devill hath over young children, and what be the causes therof, and of original sin.  
What occasions the devil taketh at the infirmities of men, thereby to hurt them.  
Of those means, by which wee give the devill liberty to haue access unto vs.  
Howe the angels were converted into devils.  
Of lunatic fools.  
Of the wicked spirit which tormented Saule.  
Of the vengeance of God, vpon the mighty men of the world.  
Of such as follow Saules ill conditions, and which sin against their own consciences.  
Of such as the devill casteth into the fire, and into the water.  
Of the woman possessed of a spirit, which stale money, by supping up of it.  
Of the reign of God Mammon here in this world.   

¶ The fift Dialogue of the demoniac world, entitled lunatic divels.  
Theophrast. Toby. jerome. Eustace.  Theophraste. 
THere is no man living, but that would be greatly afraid, when as he considereth of the estate wherein these poor and miserable demoniackes stood, who were possessed with a Legion of divels. But if they were very miserable, no doubt of it, the estate of the lunatic, deaf, dumb,& blind altogether, seemeth unto me to bee most ungracious.  tub. 
I warrant thee, the least of all these mischiefs is great enough to make the estate of a poor man miserable. For, although we bee never wholly blind, deaf, nor dumb, yet see how we take on, when as our sight alone, beginneth to fail us, and that wee must bee fain to use spectacles: Or, if wee hear not so well as wee were wonted to do? or that we stammer, or haue any other impediment in our tongue, and speak not so plainly as wee would. And if we be thus at this point, wee may easily judge, what a misery it is to bee altogether blind, deaf, and dumb. But, if we haue al these at once, besides a number of other strange diseases, joined together with thē, then is there a notable sort of mischiefs piled up in us all at once.  Theo. 
That is out of al doubt, and by how much both the sight, the hearing,& the speech are the excellent gifts of God, by so much are those men most miserable, who are deprived of them.  tub. 
For mine own part, I verily suppose that there is no man living but had rather die ten times, then he would be only blind, deaf, and dumb, although he were no demoniac.  Theo. 
Surely, he that should be in that estate, should be more miserable, as a man would say, then the very bruit beast. Now imagine that this might be, when as the divell should be amidst all his mischievous turns, whereof he is the cause& instrument. And if wee must judge these demoniacs to be miserable, what shall we say by them, who haue all these inconveniences in their souls?  To. 
If we could aswell discern these mischiefs in our souls, as we can when we haue thē in our bodies, I do not doubt but that wee would be in greater fear of thē, then we are.  Theo. 
And yet for all this, they whom Satan the god of this world, haue blindfolded 
2. Cor. 4.  their eyes, to the end they should not see the light of the gospel, and whose ears he hath stopped, that they should not hear the word of God, and whose tongues he hath tied, that they should not call vpon, and praise the lord, and such as whose hearts he possesseth and hardeneth, to the end they should not beleeue the gospel, are without al doubt a great deal more miserable and accursed, then these dumb, deaf, and blind demoniackes, whereof wee speak.  tub. 
And yet a man shall find a great number of these demoniackes in the world.  The. 
Why man, there is almost nothing else in it. For we ourselves, haue sometimes been all in this estate. And that which is more, al men are such by their own nature, until such time as Iesus Christ cometh unto them, to drive out the devil, who maketh them so deaf, dumb, and blind. And therefore, so often as we see any man converted 
deaf, dumb,& blind demoniacs, healed by the gospel.  to the gospel, wee must think it to bee such a work, even a most excellent work of god: neither ought we less marvel at the matter, then if wee saw him healing the deaf, dumb,& blind demoniacs before our eyes. And by this we may judge, what grace God sheweth to those kindes of people, out of whom Iesus christ driveth the divell, by the preaching of the gospel, that they might see the light of God, which without al comparison, is a great deal more to bee desired, then the light of the sun, and make them hear the voice of their shepherd Iesus christ, and open their mouths to preach& declare his praise and 
The grace, which god shewrth to men, by the preaching of the gospel.  glory. For, there is no harmony of the mouth, nor yet of musical instrument, so pleasant to the bodily ear, as the voice of god is pleasant to the ears of the souls, of the children of God. And as this greatly delighteth them, to hear this so sweet and pleasant a voice, even so likewise is it as great a delight to thē, to haue their mouths open, to magnify and sanctify the name of God, and to call vpon him incessantly. And 
What a cursed estate they are in, which are deprived of the gospel.  coutrariwise, we may judge in what a cursed estate they are, who bee deprived of this benefit of the Lord. For, it is even as much as if wee saw the divell visibly reign amongst the deaf, dumb,& blind, never ceasing tormenting of them, both in soul and body, more cruelly, then the most tormentrous hangman in the world is able to devise to torment the most wicked man that might possibly be committed into his hands.  tub. 
Assuredly, I do tremble when I think of that which thou speakest, and when I hear thee speak.  Theo. 
What wouldest thou then say, if thou shouldst see with thine own eyes, the thing as it is in dead? For, if the Infidels, and enemies of God could perceive and beleeue, that they were in this estate, no doubt of it, they would bee more afraid of it then they are.  tub. 
For mine own part, I verily think, that they would fully and wholly bee contented to die, so that they might but only understand and lay hold of it  Theo. 
Why then, if the estate of all such as remain in the darkness of error and ignorance, be so accursed, horrible, and fearful, yet for all this, there are none of all those which are in such estate, who are more accursed, then those whom God rejecteth, by reason they haue contemned his holy word, and to whom he sendeth his prophetes and seruants, to do that duty which the lord committed to Isaiah, when as he said unto him, go thy way, and tell this people, 
Isaiah. 6. A prophesse of the hardening of their heartes, which contemn the gospel.  that in hearing they shall not understand, and in seeing, they shall not perceive.  
blockish the heart of this people, stop their ears, and close up their eyes, to the end, they may not see with their eyes, nor hear with their ears, nor yet understand with their heartes, that they may not bee converted, and so bee healed.  Toby. 
Surely, surely, this is a fearful prophesy.  Theo. 
By this we may evidently see, that even as God by his just iudgement abandoneth the Demoniackes unto the divell, over whom he gave them power, even so he abandoneth him, and dischargeth his hands of all such as contemn his gifts& graces, to the end the divell might close up 
Exod. 4. 7. 8. 9. 10.  their eyes and ears, and so harden their heartes as he did Pharaos, that they might perish accursedly, as they deserved and wished. For, seeing they took pleasure to blind themselves, because they would not see the light of the word of God, and stopped their ears, that they might not hear his voice, and hardened their heartes, that they might not beleeue the gospel, they well deserved, that God should forsake them.  Toby. 
Verily, these men might well bee placed, amongst the blind, deaf, and dumb Demoniackes, save that I think they are not dumb to blaspheme the name of God.  Theo. 
If ever there were blind, deaf, and dumb demoniacs in the world, these are they. And the greatest number of those, are they who so greatly glory of the knowledge of the gospel,& to be the people of God.  
And therefore this prophesy of Isayah, is alleged and rehearsed six times at the least in the new testament, as well by the four evangelists, as also by Saint paul. For, even as the preaching of Isaiah did blind and harden the heartes of those hypocrites, 
Mat. 13. Mark. 4. Luke. 8. John. 12. acts. 28. Rom. 11.  and rebels that were amongst the Iewes, not through the Prophetes fault, but through their own: even so was the preaching of Iesus christ, and of his Apostles, amongst them who in their dayes were like unto these, against whom Isaiah prophesied. And we see that this prophesy is daily accomplished, not onely in Christian papists, but also in such as greatly boast of the reformation of the Gospel: and more in them, then in any other besides, because they most villainously abuse the graces which God hath bestowed vpon them. And therefore, because their vnthankefulnesse is marvelous great, it is good reason their punishment should bee the greater.  
Wherefore, it is not without just cause that this prophesy is so oftenrepeated in the new Testament, more then any other that is in all the books of the Prophetes.  tub. 
I beseech the Lord keep us by his grace, that we fall not into any such inconveniences, to the end we become not such desperate Demoniakes. But what sayest thou now of lunatic divels? For thou hast 
lunatic De●niackes. Mat. 17. Mark. 9. Luke. 9. The power wh●che the Diuel● hath over young children,& wha● the causes thereof, are.  not as yet, set down thine opinion of thē.  The. 
Although Saint Matthew calleth this demoniac, only lunatic, yet Saint Mark saith, that he was deaf also, and Saint Luke, that he was dumb, and they all agree together, that he was even so from his infancy.  tub. 
This is very strange, that the devil should haue such power over young children.  The. 
This is an example admonitatorie to us of many things, if we can well consider of them.  tub. 
I pray thee tell me what things they are.  Theo. 
First of all, wee are hereby to judge of the state& condition of our nature, and how corrupt and accursed it is, by reason of sin, seeing, that even from our infancy, the devil hath such power over vs. For, if young children were without sin, the devil should haue no power over them, no 
original sin. Rom. 5.  more then death which the devil hath begot through sin. And therefore, Saint paul proveth, that because children die, that they are subject to original sin, and that they 
●ead against ●ul.  haue already deserved punishment for the same in this their infancy. And so, some of the ancient doctors of the church, take this example of the lunatic infant, to prove the same, against all such as deny original sin, affirming, that young children are innocent, and without sin.  tub. 
Surely, the reason of these ancient doctors is built vpon a sound foundation.  Theo. 
If children then of this age deserve now such iudgement at the hands of God, if God will judge them in rigour, wee may soon haue an estimate, what vengeance we daily deserve at the hands of God, considering, that wee haue not this natural corruption onely in us, which we call original sin, and is in young children, but that which is more, wee continually carry about with us the cursed and damnable fruits, by which, we incessantly provoke the heavy wrath and displeasure of God against vs.  tub. 
This example ought to teach us, to humble ourselves unto the lord our God, and incessantly pray unto him. That 
Mat. 6. Luke. 11●  he would not lead us into temptation, but deliver us from evil. And therefore we ought to bee very watchful, and stand vpon our guard, to the end he overtake us not vpon the sudden. For, if this be so cruel an enemy unto young children, be sure, he will use no great courtesy unto vs. And if GOD giveth him such liberty to hurt young children, out of doubt, he will never spare us, seeing that we haue a great deal more deserved his fury and indignation, then young children?  Theo. 
every man may understand this, if he will. But yet consider somewhat more in another point, of the malice of Satan. I● appeareth by the words of Saint Luke, speaking of this miserable lunatic, that the devil, tormented him 
Luke. 9. Of the dise●se which this lunatic demoniac had.  not continually, but that he gave him some respite, although but a little. For, he setteth it down in these plain terms, that this divell, would hardly depart from this wretched child. Whereupon, it must follow, that he departed sometimes from him.  tub. 
Is this the cause, why the evangelists called him lunatic.  Theo. 
I do not think, that he was 
●he falling sick●s.  called lunatic, because he had the falling sickness, which cometh by fits, as the moon increaseth and decreaseth. For, because that this disease cometh of the infirmitte of the brain, it therfore followeth the course of the moon. And again, because the brain is very cold and moist, it agreeth mightily with the nature of the moon, which God hath created to be of such a nature, as that it might preserve cold and moist things, as he hath created the Sun to bee of a hot and dry nature, that it might preserve the rest of the same condition, to the end, that all the creatures of God, might be kept in order, which God in his almighty providence hath disposed.  tub. 
Is this the cause, why wee also commonly call this disease, the high evil, and 
The high evil.  that we term them which are subject there to, to fall into the high evil?  Theo. 
That may bee one cause thereof. For it cannot take a man hier, then by the head, or brain, when it taketh him in the head and brain, as that he falleth to the ground, as a Butcher knocketh an ox in the head. It is also said of this lunatic infant, that the divell cast him, and made him sometimes fall into the fire, and sometimes into the water, in such sort, as that it was marvel that he had not been killed a thousand times. It is likewise written, that he fomed at the mouth, and tare himself horribly.  tub. 
All these accidents, do greatly follow the falling sickness. But it is namely set down, that the devil did all these things and not the disease.  Theo. 
The one of them is no let to the other. For although the divell is the governor 
The divell taketh occasion to cause men hurt themselves, eue● by their own infirmities.  and ruler of this doing, yet he taketh it from the infirmity and disease, whereunto he knoweth this infant to be subject, and occasioneth him to do that evil to himself which he doth, and so serveth his turn there with, for the exercising of his cruelty and malice towards him. And therefore, he watched and pried out the times and seasons, when this disease came again to this child, and he himself also hastened and furthered it as much as was possible. And therefore the divell surpresed this child, when he knew that he should fall into the disease, to make him fall either into the fire or into the water, and so by that mean destroy him if he could. And therefore S. Luke saith, that the divell, with much a do, departed from this child. 
●uke. 9.   tub. 
I haue already considered of two things which thou hast spoken. The First, is of that which hath heretofore been handled, as concerning the desire which the divell hath to hurt the creatures of God, but especially men, as for example wee haue seen in the Legion of divels, who entred into the Gergesites swine, after they had been driven out of the demoniacs.  The. 
What is that other point, which thou wouldest speak of?  tub. 
It is even this, That I see the horrible iudgement of God, and his great mercy together, in one and the self same person. For, although God had left this poor and miserable child unto the divell, yet he so bridled up the devil, as that he could not hurt the child as he would: but in good sort, in despite of all that the divell could do. And God preserved this child, that Iesus might heal him, as such time as he had appointed, to the end that his son Iesus christ might be glorified by him, and that the world might know what power he had, over the most wicked and terrible divels.  Theo. 
now in very deed, this was very well considered, and spoken of thee, but yet there is something more to be noted, over& besides all this, and the is this, that seeing the devil taketh occasion to rush in vpon men, through their infirmities, and corporal 
The mean by which we suffer the devil to haue access unto vs.  diseases, and so cruelly deal with them, we may very well consider, what occasion he might take, by the infirmities, diseases, and grievous sins which are in our souls, for the destroyng of us eternally. And therefore we had need, very carefully look to ourselves, how by such means, we invite and bid him come to vs.  tub. 
Surely, me thinketh the we haue a very manifest example of that which thou speakest, in Iudas. Because, the devil, seeing 
The example of Iudas.  him inclined to covetousness, took occasion to enter into him, the ready& open way. For, as I take it, some of the evangelists say, that Satan entred into him.  Theo. 
In deed, Saint Luke and 
Luke. 22.  S. John haue so set it down. And although 
●hn. 13.  the divell entered not into him to torment his body, as his custom is, to torment Demoniackes, yet he so tormented his soul, as that he drove him to that issue that he made him hang himself. And because he 
●udas a very ●iuell. Mat. 27. Acts. 1. ●ohn. 6. Mala. 1.  was so disloy all a traitor, where he should haue been an angel of God, unto the which estate Iesus Christ had called him, our saviour of very right and justly, did not onely call him demoniac, but even plain devil. For, seeing the true ministers of the lord be called in the holy scriptures, the angels of 
Apoc. 2. 3.  god, thē may they justly be holden for divels, which abuse their office, and band themselves against God, where they should thereby honour him. For, herein they do the office 
The conversion of Angels into divels.  of divels, because they abuse their office, and the excellent gifts which God hath bestowed vpon them.  To. 
Me thinketh, that this example should terrify all couetousmen, but especially, all the wicked ministers of the church who make they● ministery serve their couetoousues. For, the devil hath a jolly entrance 
Coutiousnes.  into them.  Theo. 
Forsooth, it is very true. But thiefly into those, which sell and betray Iesus christ and his Church, through their covetousness.  
Wee might say as much of other vices, notwithstanding that this 'vice of couetonsnesse, is one of the chiefest, by which the devil hath Lordship over us,& maketh us his slaves.  To. 
I may thee, show me some other examples of lunatic devils, tending to this purpose, and of the occasions, that the devill taketh by our infirmities& sins to hurt us withall.  Theo. 
Contented, It is written in the book called Ecclesiastes: That the talk 
Eccle. 27.  of a man which feareth GOD, is always wise: But a fool changeth as the moon.  To. 
Why, then I perceive, we may very well place fools, amongst lunatic 
lunatic fool●  men. And so by that reason, the number of lunatics should bee great, seeing that there is a great and infinite number of fools.  Theo. 
Howbeit, if they be both lunatic and demoniacques: yea, deaf, dumb, and blind, they are the more daungerous fools. And yet we see almost nothing else before our eyes. For wee shall see some of them, at one time or an other, seem to haue a good liking of God, his word, and of virtue, and honesty. They haue their momentes, and fits, wherein they deal wonderfully, so that a man would think them to be become the honestest men in the world. And in the turning of an hand, they are so suddainlye changed from better to worse, as that thou wouldest say, that the devill was entred into their bodies, and so became Demoniacques.  
These men are such Demoniacques, as 
●aule is left to and wicked spirit Sam. 16.  king Saule was. For, it is written of him, that after Samuel had annoynted david, to be king over the people of God, in Saules steede, the good spirit of the lord departed from Saule, and the evil spirit of the Lord tormented him. And shortly after, Saules seruants, called this Spirit, the evil spirit of the Lord.  Toby. 
I take it, that the holy Scripture, so saith, understanding thereby, that the lord sent this wicked spirit, in his just iudgment, to punish him by him, as he had of long deserved.  Theo. 
There is no doubt of it.  
Whereupon thou art to note first of all, that the Hebrew word, which the holy scripture useth in this place, may be diuerslye interpnted. For, it may also be interpnted, that this wicked spirit, terrified, or choked, or puffed up, or else astonished Saul, and made him become blockish.  To. 
But, before we talk any further 
How the Deu● hath daily gre● advantage ou● vs.  of this wicked spirit, which came upon Saul, after that the good spirit of the Lord was departed from him. It hath heretofore been declared, that Saule was a great hypocrite, and a most glorious man, and an envious Rebel to God, and had so provoked God unto anger, as that he caused Samuel 
1. Sam. 15. 1 1. Sam. 31. 2. Sam. 11.  to tell him, that he should be hereaued of the kingdom, which he had given him, as in deed it was. And the cause why GOD gave him over unto the wicked spirit, came by reason therof.  
How, Saule was not so wicked and cursed, before such time as the wicked spirit had taken possession in him, neither was he any right Demontacque, without he kept it more close before, then afterward he did.  
And therefore, how are wee to understand this, that the good spirit of the lord departed from Saule, and that the wicked spirit came vpon him, in the steede of the good?  Theo. 
The example of Iudas, of whom wee haue so often spoken, may serve us to great purpose, for the resolving of us in this question.  
For, when Iesus christ said, that Iudas was a devill, there is no doubt, but that 
●ohn. 6.  the devill reigned in the heart of Iudas before. But because that Iudas continually more and more abused the gifts and graces of God, and grew worse& worse, where he should haue waxed better& better, he made the way more open and plain, for the devill to enter into him.  
Wherefore S. John setteth it down, that the devill put it in Iudas heart, to beetray Iesus christ: and afterward he saieth, as S. Luke said, that Satan entred into 
●ohn. 13. ●uke. 22.  him.  
It was not meant by the Euange lists, but that the devill was in him before, and namely, when he began to murmur against the woman, who had spent her precious ointment vpon Iesus Christ. But 
Math. 26. Mark. 14. John. 12.  their meaning is, that we should understand, that the devill at that time, had taken larger possession in the heart of Iudas, and had greater power over him, insomuch that he was master of all, as experience afterward manifestly declared.  Toby. 
Thy meaning then is, that it fared even so with Saule.  Theo. 
True in deed, for the thing is most apparent.  
For, even as Iudas did a great deal worse, after such time as S. Luke and S. John spake, that the divell was entred into his hart, so that Iudas was then come even unto the fullness of all iniquity& wickedness: even so fell it also out with Saule, after that the good spirit of the lord was gone from him, and he left unto the wicked spirit. For, before that, the good spirit of the lord, caused him to do many good things, although Saule had not a true and sound heart. Howbeit, although he did himself no good, yet did he good to others, considering the estate wherein he was. But, after that the good spirit of the Lord, had wholly given him over to Satan, a man might haue seen him grow worse, daily and hourly, so that he never restend, until such time as he had filled the measure of al wickedness, and for a man of his degree& quality, made even as shameful an end, as Iudas did. For, after that Saule had committed the very worst deeds that he could possibly devise, against God, and against his seruant david, the devil at last egged him so far forth, as that he destroyed himself with his own hands.  Toby. 
This is a fearful example of Gods heavy vengeance, especially vpon so 
●. Sam. 31. ●od plagueth ●he most mighty ●inges for their ●ransgressions.  noble a parsonage. For, if God spare not kings and Princes, we are not to look that he will spare any others whatsoever.  Theo. 
It is so far off, that he spareth great kings, and mighty potentates, because they are of great magnificence, as the he punisheth them with more grievous, notable and fearful tortures, then any of all the rest of his people. For, by how much the more he hath made them great and excellent, by so much the more are they unthankful unto his majesty, when as they abuse his graces. And again, there are no enemies of God, which more dishonour him,& do greater hurt unto al men, by their evil examples, and less punished by men, then they which are in the greatest authority. And therfore it cannot be chosen, but that God himself must arise to execute iustice vpon them, seeing that none else will, or can do it: And he must needs cause them make a public amends, for all the horrible and grievous offences, which they haue heretofore committed, and stil daily do.  Toby. 
To say truly, he handleth thē very roughly, when he once beginneth to lay his hand on them.  Theo. 
But amongst all the rest, whom the example of Saul ought most to terrify, 
The Imitator of Saule.  are all glorious, proud, envious, and hypocritical men, and all tyrants, but especially, those kindes of men, who fight against 
What a grienous thing it i● for a man to sin● against his owns conscience.  their own consciences, and persecute such as they know to be most innocent. For, Saule, was subject to all these vices. But, he most manifestly shewed, what great power the devil had over him, when as he so openly fought against his own conscience, which oftentimes enforced him to accuse& condemn his own self, for the injuries and wrongs which he had done unto david.  
For, how often was he enforced to say, that he was a vile and wicked man, and had done great injury to david, and that david was innocent, and a far honester man then 
●. Sam. 24. 26.  himself? And who enforced him this to do, but the very power of the truth, and his own conscience, which drove him to it, as if he had been racked to do it? he right well knew, that he did wickedly, and that he manifestly fought against God, and yet for all this, he no whit amended himself: but stil became more traitorous, fierce& cruel, without any regard, either to GOD, iustice or equity, then any brute and furious beast.  
But when he made such a jolly confession of his sins, a man would haue thought, that he had been very penitent, and altogether converted. A man would haue thought that he had been come again to his right wits, and that he had been very well disposed to haue don much better, then before time he had. But he was immediately after, quiter and clean altered, and did worse, then before he had done. Insomuch, that at the very same instant, wherein he used these speeches, declaring the innocency of david, he took his Iaueling,& thought if he had could, to haue run david through 
1. Sam. 18. 2● 26.  with it, with his own hands, and afterward caused him to be sought for al over, to haue put him to death.  tub. 
Surely, herein he right well shewed, that he was a very Demontacke, and most lunatic.  Theo. 
We see a great number of such. For, there are an exceeding mighty number of those, who, after they haue long time fought against their own consciences, haue some remorse thereof. But forsomuch as GOD forsaketh them, because they haue forsaken him, the devill their master, who hath so great power and dominion over them, hath no more stay of them, then of senseless and mad men. And therfore they alter their minds every hour. And if it so fall out, as that they sometimes light on the right side, theyby& by tumble over again unto the other side, so that, the moon changeth not so often as they do. But this is the nature of al such as are subject to the devil. For, after any furious& mad spirit hath once got possession of them, they are never long in one mind. tub. Thou hast already spoken of many great vices which greatly haunt us, that make us subject unto him.  The. 
It is said, that the devil many times cast the lunatics one while into the fire,& 
Who they are, ●om the devil ouerthroweth● and maketh them fall into ●he fire.  another while into the water. Now, when the devil eggeth us forward, so that he causeth us to fall into the sin of covetousness, he casteth us into a far more dangerous fire, then if he did cast us into a material fire. For, covetousness, is such a fire, as is impossible 
The fire of covetousness.  to be quenched, by reason of that which is cast into it, but burneth stil more& more. Wherefore the covetous men burn continually in this fire, and consume therein much of that that is cast in, with them.  tub. 
If they were cast in into a material fire, they should bee discharged for being burnt any more. Howbeit, these men, of whom thou speakest, are in a far worse estate, then if they were burnt but in a small fire.  Theo. 
Wee might likewise say as much of Whoremongers. For Lechery is 
The fire of whoredom and lechery.  a fire also, and as hard to be quenched, as the fire of covetousness. And how many do we daily see cast into this infernal fire by the devil, who are there cruelly roasted both body& soul. But there are a marvelous great number, especially, of these lunatic Demoniackes, whom the divell very often casteth into this fire of whoredom and lechery, amongst the suppostes of the popish Church, who had rather burn in it, contrary to the counsel of Saint paul, and the express commandment of God, 
The contempt of marriage punished. 1. Cor. 7  then mary, and find water in holy marriage to remedy it, whereby they might quench this fire, and so be rid of it. But they had rather haue the devil keep them there, 
Gen. 1. 2. Math. 19.  then they would serve God in that estate which he hath ordained from the beginning.  tub. 
But, what are they, whom the devil maketh thus fall into the water?  Theo. 
Why man, there are an exceeding number of them. We may place in this rank, all voluptuous and lycentious persons, who suffer themselves to overflow 
Who they are whom the devil causeth to fall into the water.  as it were water, in their pleasures& delights. And therfore they make this entry for the divell to enter into thē, to the end he might plunge and drown them over head and ears, so that they should never be able to come out again. To be short, if wee would discourse of this matter more at large, we should find, that the most parte of us, are thus daily dealt withall by the divell, who handeleth us not onely as he handled the miserable lunatic, but a great deal more curelly. For there is no comparison between the harms which the divell is able to do to the bodies, and those whom he incessantly hurteth in their souls.  tub. 
Seing we haue talked so long, of so many sorts of Demoniackes, I would gladly now know of jerome, what he were able to say to this matter, considering he hath so long heard us,& never spake word which I marvel of. And me thinketh also that he is about to leave his silence, and to say somewhat.  jer. 
Surely, thou and Theo. haue said so much, as that you haue left me no great matter to talk of. But I will tell you a 
A storse of a woman demoniac that was never satisfied with money.  Tale which once I hard done by a woman demoniac, who differeth far from those sorts of Demoniackes, of whom thou hast before spoken.  tub. 
Thou wouldest fain tel us here some fable and old wives tale, to make us forget all the doctrine whereout we might gather some good matter, of the talk which we heretofore haue had.  jer. 
I will tel thee, they that  told me this history, told it not unto me for a fable, but for a true history. And for mine own part, I verily beleeue, that they counterfeited not the matter. And put the case it were a counterfeit thing, yet shal it turn to good purpose, as concerning those matters, whereof you haue talked.  tub. 
Thou shouldst haue gone on with thine history, whiles we haue entertained thee with these great promises. And therfore let us now hear it.  jer. 
First of al, it was  told me that this history happened in Almayne, and that this demoniac was so lycorous of money, as never jack daw had greater delight in it. For she would no sooner come near any man, but that her hand was suddenly vpon his purse or money bag if he had any, that she could find. And if she had once fingered it, she would haue so lustily bestirred her, and so suddaynely haue put the Gold or silver which she had fingered unto her mouth, as that a man could not haue been so wary of her, but that shee would haue more suddainelye haue licked it in.  tub. 
I promise thee, this was a marvelous strange divell. Why, those which we commonly call saracens, or egyptians, or else Bohemians, are nothing sailfull in respect of this divell, no nor yet the jack daws, who are the notablest theeues for money that may bee, and will sometimes as quickly dispatch it. But what became of this demoniac in the end?  Iero. 
I understood by them who told me the tale, that Luther was asked his opinion of her. For he was then alive, when as this matter fell so out. And the place wherein this thing happened, is not far from the place where Luther dwelled: but I do not well remember the name which was  told me.  tub. 
It is no matter for the name of the place. But tel us if thou canst, what Luthers answer was, as touching this demoniac, to those which asked his counsel herein.  jer. 
I understood, that he  told them, that it was an advertisement of God to the almains, and to all the world besides, that the divell Mammon was vnchayned& let 
God Mam●raigning in ● world.  loose, and reigned in the world, and was now more unsatiable then ever he had been before, and therefore left neither purse nor bag vnryfled. And that although he had drawn dry all purses and bags, and licked up all the gold and silver within them, yet could he not be through full: For it is an unsatiable gulf which never crieth hoe.  tub. 
What meanest thou by this divell Mammon?  jer. 
That covetousness, whereof the devil himself is both God and father.  tub. 
Indeed, me thinketh that Luther hitte it rightly. And if so bee there had been no such thing, but a feigned matter, for sport, yet it carrieth a good sense with it, for we daily see before our eyes, the practise whereof Luther spake, both in al countries, and also in all estates, and therefore the almains are not to bee only charged therwith. For, we are able to say without counterfeiting, that there is a devilish covetousness al the world throughout. And if a man should consider well of the matter, we should see covetousness, to be a very right shee devil, and maketh men become he divels,& maketh such a number of demoniacs as the woman was, of whom thou erst spakest, and begetteth such a number of great& little divels, to play this pageant, as that the whole world is nothing ●ls but a Diuelrie, altogether diuelished.  jerome. 
This was that she devil which chiefly made Iudas such a devil, as thou hast said he was, and so, never sithence that ever she ceased hatching and bringing forth of such like as her self, who are the greatest ●inderers of the course of the gospel, which any way might come unto it.  tub. 
We are then in a jolly country, when as we be in such an hel, and haue to do with so many sorts of Demoniackes and divels.  jer. 
The danger is not so great to haue to do with them, as it is to be one of the number.  tub. 
I right well know thy meaning. And therefore the hardest matter for us resteth herein, to find the means how to avoid al these inconveniences, to wit, howe wee may first keep ourselves, from falling into these mischiefs. The second is, as touching the mean, whereby we may eschew the hurt which these divels and Demoniackes might do vs.  jer. 
That, which thou hast spoken of, is the very best and chiefest: For, to what purpose were it for a man to understand the disease, without a man did think to get necessary remedies for the healing thereof, and it were to small purpose to think of them without a man were sure to find them.  tub. 
In very deed it would serve to none other end, but the more to torment the party grieved, and make him become more desperate.  jer. 
And therefore the very best way will be, that at our first meeting together, we travel and go about this matter.   

The Title and effect of the sixth Dialogue, of the Demoacke world.  
THis sixth Dialogue is entitled, The conjuration of Diuelles, because in it, is set forth, which way to drive out divels which rule and torment the world. hereupon, those remedies are spoken of, which Saul sought after, that he might bee rid of that wicked spirit which tormented him, and of the remedies which Infidels, and wicked men hunt after, for such diseases as come unto them, and how men haue recourse unto creatures, whereas in truth they should run unto God.  
Of the cause of Saul his madness, and of the right remedy that was used for the same.  
Of the blockish and witching spirit which God sendeth unto us in his just iudgement.  
For what cause, fasting and prayer are available, for the driving out of divels.  
How very necessary a thing the increase of faith is.  
Of the true use of fasting, and of the abuse thereof.  
Of gluttony& drunkenness, cloaked under the title of the liberty of the gospel, and namely in the person of the Magistrates, and ministers of the church.  
Of the divels force, when he is to be put out of his lodging.  
Of the victory which Iesus Christ hath against him.  
Of the principal and most necessary knowledge that is wanting in man,& of his unthankfulness, as well towards God, as also unto to those to whom of duty he is bound.   

The sixte Dialogue of the demoniac world, entitled, The conjuration of divels.  
jerome, toby, Eustace, Theophrast.  jerome. 
THou desiredst ( toby) to understand what remedies there were to keep us, not onely from becoming to be demoniacs, but also to be defended from taking any hurt either by the divels, or by the demoniacs whom the divels possess and rule.  tub. 
Very true. And therefore I am here now ready to hear what fit remedies thou hast brought me for the purpose: For I right well know, that all the Priestes, Friers, and Charmers conjurations, and all the conjurers that be in the world, will little or nothing auaple, without there be some other helping haud then theirs.  jer. 
Why man, thou must not look that the divels and Demoniackes conjure one another.  tub. 
Why speakest thou that:  jer. 
Because, if there be any men in the whole world, over whom the divels reign and haue power, they are the people, of whom thou erst speakest. And therefore if there bee any who of right are to bee taken for Demoniackes, even those kindes of men, of whom we heretofore spake, are to bee looked for amongs the men of that court. For they are such demoniackes, as that they make all men else very demoniackes also, what with their false doctrine, traditions, and by mean of that wicked spirit which guideth and governeth them. For, seeing they are the guyders and Gouernours of others, it cannot bee chosen, but that they which are guided and governed by them, must needs bee lead by that spirit, which guideth& governeth their leaders and Gouernours.  tub. 
I doubt that Eustace, will not yield unto that thy opinion.  jer. 
I care not whether he will yield to it or not, yet I am sure it is true that I haue said.  Eust, 
If thou wilt needs haue it so, I shall but loose tune to speak against thee. And therefore I shalbe contented to hear, what Coniuerers they are that thou canst bring forth for thy parte, and see what greater virtue they haue more, then those whom thou hast disciphered, and so greatly blamed.  jer. 
me thinketh toby, that Theo. hath shewed unto us a most excellent remedy against this mischief, which is so greatly to be feared: so that in my opinion, if we take it, we shall never need a●e other.  tub. 
I understand right well, that he hath sent us back to Iesus Christ, to seek this mean and remedy at his hand. And surely for mine own parte I would never go any further.  Theo. 
Saul very diligently sought after it, but because he went not to God, to whom he ought to haue gone, he never found that comfort and remedy against his disease, that he looked for.  tub. 
What remedy was that: 
1. Sam. 16.   Theo. 
His seruants made him beleeue that it was best for him to haue some cunning 
The counsel which Saules seruants gave him.  musician, which could play excellently vpon an harp. And he thought this, to be very good counsel. whereupon, he forth with sent to haue such an one gotten him: and at last, david was brought to him to play this parte, for he had therein, most excellent skill.  tub. 
What reason had they to dot thus:  Theo. 
There was great like lihoode, that the servants which gave Saule this counsel, as the history witnesseth, were his physicians, who had met together to consult of his disease. For, when any sickness, or other inconvenience falleth vpon 
What remedies the wicked hunt after, when they are dise●sed.  the wicked, they never consider, that it is the hand and rod of the lord that is laid upon them, without they bee enforsed thereto, with the great blows of a mawle, as was laid upon Pharaob and the Egyptians. And therefore, where they 
Exod. 12.  should look up unto heaven, they stil look groveling down to the earth, and run rather unto creatures, then unto the Creator.  
And again, they that are about them,& like them, never give them other direction. Wherefore, when Saul was not well at ease, he must needs send for remedy for his disease. And his most excellent remedy had been, to haue sent for some sound prophet or Preacher, to haue  told Saul of the grievous and great sins which he had committed, whereby the wicked spirit had so great power over him, to torment him as he did: For, by these and such like speeches, he must needs haue been brought to repentance, and so haue fled to the mercies of God, whereby he might haue obtained his favour, and remission of his sins: for, if he had grown to an atonement with God, through true and faithful repentance, he should haue found at Gods hands, that remedy that was most necessary for him. For, that God, who had stricken him in his just iudgement, could, and also would, haue healed him in mercy. But because that Saul, had so long dallied with God,& perfeuered so long in his wicked doing, contrary to his own conscience, as that god would not once vouchsafe to give him that grace to haue recourse unto him, nor suffer him haue animam in his Court,& about him, to give him that counsel.  Toby. 
I do not think this counsel, to be the best counsel that might haue been 
Wee run to creatures for aid, rather t● unto God.  given him: howbeit, this is the very ordinary course, which we almost all take, to run rather unto physicians, and secke remedy at the hands of Creatures, then unto God, the most excellent physician of all.  Theo. 
I do not think it amiss, to use physicians, and all other means whatsoever that men are able to help withall, so that they be ordained of God.  
But herein resteth the fault, that wee forsake GOD, and run unto Creatures: But if wee run unto GOD, yet haue we more confidence in men,& in the creatures, and in the means and instruments, which he hath ordained, then in God the framer and worker of all, without whom, all the instruments are able to do nothing.  
And therefore it is written of king Aza, that GOD took away his life from him, 
1. Chron. 16.  because that in his sickness, he trusted more unto his physicians, then he did unto GOD. now, if God punished those, who used such remedies as he had ordained, when as they put their confidence in that, which they should haue done in him, we ought not to marvel, although he severely dealeth with many, who are not contented to abuse the means which he hath ordained, but seek after other means, which he hath forbidden,& put therein their whole trust.  To. 
They which haue recourse to the devill, and unto Charmers, and source, rers, who are his Ministers, direct themselves to other physicians and means then GOD hath ordained.  Theo. 
neither do these men escape the heavy hand of GOD, although he be flow in coming, nor yet they which run unto idols, and to strange Gods.  Toby. 
But I pray thee tell me, whether music hath any power against such 
music, a reme dy against madness.  kind of madness as Saules was, or not: For, it is to be presumed, that they which gave Saule counsel, to sand for a cunning musician, where of this opinion.  Theo. 
There are many melancholic, and frantic people, whom music serveth as a medicine, because it rejoiceth and tempereth mens affections, and thereby draweth away their imaginations else whether, if it be used as it should be. But Saules madness proceeded not only of a sad and melancholic humour, either yet upon anger and wrath. But the principal cause was supernatural: And therefore, although he found himself somewhat comforted and eased, when david played upon the harp, yet continued he still in his madness, yea insomuch that he still enforced himself to thrust through david, his musician.  
And therefore he was to look for remedy some where else. For, Saules madness proceeded from the curse of god, 
The cause of Sauls madness. Deut. 28.  wherewith he threateneth all such as will not obey his lawe, that he will strike them with blindness, fury, and madness: in such a sort, as that he will make them senseless, that they shall be no more able to guide and govern themselves, 
The spirit of f●ry and blockishness.  then those blind men, that grope by the walls at noon dayes.  Toby. 
Surely, this is an horrible and very fearful threat.  Theo. 
All the rest of the Prophetes, which lived after Moses, threatened the like curse and vengeance, namely to tyrants, their Counsellors and officers, when as 
saiah. 19. Oseah. 4. 5. John. 6. 12  they threatened them, that God would send amongst them, a blockish, sleepy,& drunken spirit.  To. 
I think, that foolish and wicked counsels, which greatly hurt Princes, their courts, and principalities, proceed from such a spirit.  Theo. 
That is questionless. For, seeing they make no account of the counsel of God, which he delivereth unto them by his word, and servants, they are worthy of such counsellors as are led with such a 
1. Kings. 22.  spirit: As the false Prophetes of ahab: who were, by the just iudgement of God, sent unto him, to deceive him, as he had well deserved. To. Thou wouldest thē thus conclude, that there is no sufficient physician, to deliver or rid men of such inconveniences, save the most excellent physician of al.  Theo. 
Our saviour Iesus Christ, yielding a reason, why his Disciples were not 
Mat. 17.  able to heal the Lunaticque, told them, that that sort of devils could not bee cast 
Fasting& praic● requisite for the casting out of devils.  out, but by fasting and prayer.  Toby. 
Why said he so?  Theo. 
He himself declared that sufficiently enough, when as he as well rebuked his Disciples, as also the father of the Lunaticque, for their incredulity, giuing them thereby to understand, that, that was the cause, why his Disciples were not able to cast out that devil, albeit they had used al the skill and cunning they had. Wherefore, seeing it was for want of faith, it was requisite, that 
increase of faith necessary.  their faith should be increased. And this could not be had, but by the grace of God. For, faith is the gift of GOD: And therfore, as we cannot haue it without him, no more also can it bee increased but by him alone. And therefore, Iesus Christ exhorted his Disciples, to pray that it might bee increased in them. wherefore, sith it is so, we 
Ephe. 2. John. 6.  must address us unto GOD, by hearty and faithful prayer. And prayer can in no wise please him, without it come from the soul and heart.  
And because that abstinence or fasting, 
The right use of fasting.  greatly availeth the soul or mind, forsomuch as being less pressed by the body, it is better disposed towards God: therfore the servants of GOD, haue commonly joined abstinence and fasting with their prayers, when as they would address themselves unto his majesty, for any things of great importance, and be more fervent in prayer, according as the necessity of the cause required. And therefore, Iesus christ meaning to let his Disciples understand, that they had great need to pray unto GOD, for the increase of their faith, and that fasting, greatly availed unto prayer, because it was of great effycacie: he joined fasting with prayer, when as he spake of faith that was to be required, for the casting out of this kind of wicked, and most cruel devils.  Toby. 
I do not much marvel, that there are this day so few conjurers, which are able to cast out of the world those devils, of whom wee haue heretofore so much spoken. For, there are but a few men, very earnest in prayer. And as for fasting, the number is less, especially amongeste you, who so greatly glory of the Reformation of the gospel: For, you are not contented yourselves not to fast: but, which is worse, you scorn them that fast, and condemn 
The abuse offasting condemned.  them for superstitious people, and hypocrites.  Theo. 
I know right well, that thou takest great pleasure to be merry with us, or else thou speakest of our doctrine according as thou hast heard our adversaries talk, who can never speak well of it, and yet never either heard or yet understood it: or, if ever they heard it and understood it, they speak ill of it against their own consciences. For, who ever heard us more condemn fasting and abstinence, then true prayer, and all other good works, which God alloweth and liketh of.  Toby. 
Wherefore then fast you not in Lent, the four Ember dayes, the Vigiles, and other fasting dayes, commanded by the Church. Theo. If we condemn that superstitious and importable abuses, which the 
What true● are.  papists use in their fasts, wee do not for all that comdemne the true fasts, that are according to the word of GOD, and according to the right rule of the ancient Fathers and true servants of God: But contrariwise, weegreatly desire, to haue the right use of those fasts, to bee broughe into the Church. For, there is great difference between correcting the abuses,& the abolyshing of good things which men haue abused. And as for the common fasts, there are no preachers which more commend thē, nor who more grievously reprove and condemn gluttony, drunkenness, and al dissoluteness, or losenesse of life, as well for eating and drinking, as also for all other things, then the true Ministers of the gospel, reprove and condemn them.  Toby. 
I do verily think, that that which thou sayest is true, but I find few which follow that doctrine. For, I see many of your side, who are no better reformed, without, where peradventure they 
●ttonny and ●ukennes, clo● under the ti● of the liberty ●he gospel.  might at the least haue fasted sometimes, so long as they held our lawe: who now, not onely never fast, but commonly surfet both in eating and drinking, as if they had received the gospel for none other purpose, but to surfeit at pleasure, and make a scorn at all abstinence and sobriety.  Theo. 
I must needs confess, that there are over many such. And I will confess more unto thee then that. For, if this mischief, whereof thou speakest, were but in some of the meaner sort, it were less to bee lamented. But the greatest mischief of all the rest is this, that there are a great number of ministers and magistrates, who are more licentiously given to this kind of 'vice of trowling and bowling, then those men, whom they ought to correct for such offences. For these are the special men, whom a man shall ordinarily find in the taverns and tippling houses, as if their chiefest occupation were to troll and bowl,& provoke others to all looseness.  tub. 
I haue heard it oftentimes spoken, that there are many of the chiefest of your officers amongst you, who take great 
Of the gluttony and drunken●nes of magistrates and ministers.  pleasure to give the ministers, which will play the good fellowes a little, their lading( as wee say). And these officers think, that they haue made a great conquest, when as they haue a minister drunk, as it too too often falleth out. And I doubt not, but that jerome hath heard as great news of this as I.  Theo. 
I know more of this, then I gladly would,& I cannot hear it spoken of, but to their great shane which do, and continue such villainies. But it is easily to bee seen, what maner of men these ministers and officers are, who thus honestly behave themselves, thou mayst right well say, That Rowland and oliver are well met. For, because these officers, are men of wicked life and conversation, and fear that the Ministers would reprove them of their sins: They are the gladdest men in the world, when they can get in their Ministers to bowl with them, to the end thereby to bridle them, that they should not bee over grievous in accusing and reprehending of them. For, when these Ministers or rather minstrels, haue well wet their whystle, they, over whom they are Pastors, do assure themselves then, that they will not be too eager vpon them. And again, these cup whisteling minstrels, haue no regard, to much crying out, because they fear that some man would accuse them, if they should displease those who were witnesses of their trolling and bolling,& the rest of their vices whereunto they are subject.  tub. 
If the case thus standeth, I dare assure thee, that you haue very venerable Apepostles, to cast out all the divels by fasting and prayer, which at this present so greatly trouble the world. And if there were no divels at all in the whole world, these good fellowes, in steede of casting of them out, would bring them in. wherefore, I do not much marvel, although the divels haue so great power of these drunkards and gluttons of all sorts and estates, and namely, over those ministers& magistrates who rise early in the morning, not to go to a Sermon, but to the tavern and there drink a dutant, what sayest thou to it Theophraste?  Theo. 
This I say unto it, that the land, and common weal is accursed, which hath gluttonous& drunken magistrates& pastors,& rise up in the morning to follow drunkenness 
Eccle. 10. Isaiah. 5.  until they are hot with wine. And therefore, seeing that all vices reign in the world,& more amongst them, which should correct and punish thē, then amongst any of the rest, it is no marvell, though there be so many divels& demoniacs every where, as are. But such as fear the Lord, haue a very good recourse. In very dead, it will bee 
What deuis● and means ● devil hath ● he is to be dis●ted.  a hard matter to make those divels depart from thē, but yet they shal, will they, nile they, be displaced, because Christ layeth his hand on them, as he did vpon the miserable lunatic. For, when Iesus christ was in place, it 
●. 17. ●k. 6. and. 9.  was so far of that the wicked spirit would depart from this poor child, as that he became more mad in him. And so likewise, when these divels, and demoniackes that they possess which are now in the world, feel the Gospel came near them, and begin to hear the voice thereof, they are even as mad, as if a man should sound out the Trumpet, to assault them, and give them the alarm. And, as the divell went not out of the lunatic, until such time as he had first tried all his forces against Iesus Christ: No more will he be displaced of these rooms, which he hath gotten possession of, without strong and mighty combats. And al the while that the divell so furiously resisted Iesus Christ, the devil a great deal more tormented the poor lunatic, then ever he did before, Insomuche, that he lay before Iesus christ, as if he had been dead.  tub. 
he did that, to vex the poor father, of that so very a miserable child, and because he had so little faith, his incredulity was the reason, why this child was no sooner healed. For it seemed, that the presence of Iesus Christ, did him more hurt then good.  Theo. 
It might seem that Iesus christ came thither, to give the divell 
victory ag● the divell, he had been ●uen, to his shifts.  greater power, to the end he might finish that work which he so long before traveled about, which was, to kill this poor miserable child. For, every man thought the child to bee dead, when the divell left him. Howbeit, it fell out clean contrary. For, when it was thought, that he was stark dead, he was quiter and clean delivered of the divell, and made through whole.  
now, wee see that the like of this falleth out daily, we see how the devil troubleth and tormenteth the world, especially in those places, out of which he knoweth he shall be cast. For, he then falleth into such a rage, as that a man would think that the gospel, by which mean Iesus christ will cast him out, had set open all the gates of hell, to let out all the Legions of divels that were in it. For, then he fretteth and sumeth, and maketh as many as he hath power over, to fret and fume. To be short, he so terrifieth the whole world, yea, the valiantest and most constant, as that a man would think it should be utterly consumed and come to nought. But even then, when we think it should bee clean wasted and destroyed, our saviour Iesus christ, sheweth himself to be far stronger then he. And therefore, wee must not stand in a maze when we see the troubles and persecutions, which the divell and his retinue stir up in the world, when as they feel Iesus christ come near them, to cast them out through the power of his gospel. We haue none other thing to do but to remain steadfast and constant, and do that duty that appertaineth unto every of us: and so leave the charge of all the rest of the things unto our Lord Iesus christ, who will never forsake us, nor yet suffer the divell to reign amongst vs.  tub. 
I tell you, it is most necessary that he should put to his helping hand.  
For there is none else to withstand the divels power, nor yet stay and tame such an enemy, whom, never man was able to vanquish, but he alone. For, so far forth as I am able to understand by the talk that wee haue had together, we are not only in worse estate, and more intractable and ragyng then bruit beasts, but also then the very Demoniackes. Whereupon, I can not sufficiently enough marvel at our nature. For, we are of that nature and condition, that wee can skill to do any thing, but that which should be for our benefit,& most necessary for vs. For, there is neither Art, 
Man can do ●nie thing, sau● that which he ought chiefl● to do.  Science, practise, nor yet occupation whatsoever, which we haue not devised, and can do it, and teach others also, saving the art to live well, which wee brag to teach to every one, and yet are not able to teach ourselves, but much less able to practise it. For, there is almost, no beast so savage, cruel, furious, or villainous howsoever, but that men by Arte, is able to vanquish, tame, and master, and make familiar and gentle: But it is a wonder to see that he is not able to finde out any Arte, Science, Practise, nor 
Man a conq●tor of thin● but of himself  weapons, to vanquish, tame, and master himself, and to overcome and subdue his own affections.  
Horses and Moyles are with much a do brought to it: But yet hath man found the mean to handle them, and make them do him service, in a short time. bulls and Dren are mighty and strong: and yet man teacheth them to bear the yooke, and draw in the Cart. The Elephants likewise are most terrible: and yet man maketh them bear as great a burden as he Iusteth. wolves and bears, are very cruel: and yet man maketh them tractable. Lions are very fierce, proud, cruel, and terrible: and yet man maketh them humble themselves, and obey him. Contrariwise, I see too often that the husband is not able to master his 
●here is disa●erment be●eeue the hus●and and the ●ife. ●en. 2, 3. ●phe. 5. ●ien. 1. 2.  wife, nor the wife, her husband, that they might live quietly together: although shee be flesh of his flesh, and bone of his bones, and little long time together, both in one house, and eat their meate together, both at one Table, and lie both in one bed, and which is more, are one body, and one blood. If man then cannot live with himself, with his own flesh, and his own blood, with whom will he live: If he cannot love his wife, whom God hath made of his own substance, and hath given her unto him, for his aid and comfort, whom will he love: Likewise, if the wife cannot humble herself and fit herself, to agree with her husband, 
Ephe. 5.  who me God hath given her, to be her head, and framed her out of his body, with whom will shee agree, and who shall bee able to abide her: There is great contrariety betwixt dogges and Cats, yea such a natural hatred, as is not almost to bee reconciled. And so likewise, between Woiues and sheep: Lions and Dren: And yet if they had been brought up together from their youth, their bringing up and company keeping, which they had had together, would work some power and efficacy to despoil them something of their nature,& so join themselves in unity together: Although they bee beasts of sundry kindes, and marvelously differing, and contrary one to another. What sayest thou to this jerome:  jerom. 
me thinketh, it fareth with men, as it fareth with flies and swallows, who are always lodged amongst men, and 
A similitude o● unthankful men.  lie in their houses, and yet for all that, a man is not able to master them: for, the swallow buildeth her neast in his house, and layeth her eggs there, and hatcheth up her young ones. Man, bestoweth house room on her,& they both sleep under one roof, and yet there is no familiarity between them, neither yet live they one with another. And in the end the swallow leaveth nothing else to the good man of the house for his house rent, but her filthy dounge, after shee hath continued there a great while, and broken him of many a sleep with her chattering and chirping. And therfore Tully rightly compared swallows 
●my in his 4. cook to ●tren.  to false and unfaithful friends, For, as the swallows make them ready to come in the Spring, and then depart when could weather cometh in: even so will false friends stand by us so long as the weather is faire and clear, but when they see the winter of mishap come upon us, they fly away from us every chone. And therefore it was not amiss said of Pithagoras, to forbid men of receiving the swallow 
Pithagoras creed.  under their roof.  tub. 
What meant Pythagoras by that.  Theo. 
His meaning was, that it is not 
Piuta●th.  good to be familiarly acquainted with●anglers, staunderers, and unthankful persons, 
Dueit. ● 8.  who are rightly represented by the swallow. For, a man shall never get any good by them, but sorrow, grief, hurt, and dishonour. And is not the fly likewise I pray you, always in the kitchen: The first at the Table, the first in the dish, and tasteth all the meats wee eat of. Yea, they will do it, although we were Emperours and kings, and more then this to: They take assay oftentimes before the cook.  jer. 
But what favour find we by them for all the benefits which they daily haue at our hands, in our houses. What wage& reward haue we of them?  tub. 
This wee haue, they grieve and bewray with their dirt, whatsoever faire and beautiful thing that is within the house.  jer. 
And more then that, for they engender vermin and corruption, never ceasing to importune, sting, and bite us, even till the blood follow withal, and are never contented with all the benefits that we bestow on thē, wout they also suck& drink our blood.  tub. 
These flies are far more dangerous then man, and a great deal more unthankful. I see fathers and mothers also daily, that cannot agree with their children, but after, that those fathers and mothers haue wasted the odours, and fumes of the odours, which are continually about their children, and dandeled them, and haue been grieved and dered, and had many a foul hand with them in the bringing of 
● great vn●sefulnesse of and children, ●ardes their ●ents.  them up: so soon as these children haue been grown up to ripe yeeres, they would not once aclowledge either father or mother: They would neither see them, nor bear with them: but drive them oftentimes, out of the house: or else. their parents were enforced to drive them out, by reason of their rebellion and wicked dealing. I never saw any such unthankfulness, nor cruelty between Dogs and Cats, wolves and Lymmers, Lions and Lions whelps. I haue seen these Landleapers, who haue led all the countries over, Lions, bears, 
●andleapers.  Apes, Asses, Horses, and many other sorts of beasts, and ruled them as they listed. For, they would make them do whatsoever they pleased, and commanded them. They haue made them dance, leap, lie still, stand up, touch on the ground, make courtesy, march march with a pike, and wind a flate. To bee short, I am not able to tell you in a longtime, howe many sundry things they haue taught them, and made them do. For, they taught them to do all things. What is the cause then, why man is so well able to instruct the most unteachable bruit beasts, and do learn of him, and yet he himself, not able to teach himself, nor yet learn of himself that, that is necessary for him to learn, and without the which, he is in dead no man:  jerom. 
No, not the wife of her husband, nor the child of the father.  Toby. 
What is the cause then, why do these Landleapers take so great pain, to teach beasts, after this sort?  jerom. 
It is to none other eude, but to make men sport, and thereby, get money of them, that they might live the easilier.  tub. 
Now, what greater pleasure can any man haue, then to see his children well instructed: Is there any Ape more pleasant: with whom may they haue any better pastime: And what greater commodity can any Landleaper draw out of beasts, which he so teacheth, then the father from his son, the husband, from his wife, or the brother, from his brother, or one neighbour from an other, if they could as well learn of them, as the beasts learn of the Landleapers.  jerom. 
This is most certain, a man 
☞  shall find a great many more children, like the Hippopotame, then the stork. 
●he Hippopo●me.   Toby. 
What manner of beast is that Hippopotame?  jerom. 
It is a beast that is bread chiefly in Egypt, in the river of Nile,& that one half of him is like an horse, and the other half like a fish. And therefore, he beareth this name, that is to say, a river horse.  tub. 
What is thy meaning by naming of this beast:  jerom. 
I will tell thee, They that haue written the histories of the natures of beasts, haue set down the nature of this 
●lutar. book. ●hether the ●eastes bread on ●eland, be wisser ●en they which ●re bread in the ●eater.  beast, to bee so perverse and cruel, as that so soon as he is come to any type yeeres, being thereto brought by that endeavour of his parents, that he will kill his father, and afterward haue to do with his mother. And howe many children, thinkest thou shall wee find at this day, who are not grieved, that Fathers& mothers live so long, and think of nothing else, but to see the end of them:  Toby. 
And how many thinkest thou there are of such children, who bring their parentes to the grave, with very sorrow and pensiveness, to see their unto wardnes.  jerom. 
Alas, if man sheweth himself to be such a one, to those who haue be gotten him, and brought him up, what good shall other men hope for at his hands.  Toby. 
But tell me also, I beseech thee, what thou meanest by speaking of the storks:  jerom. 
I put in them, because they are of a clean contrary nature. For, if wee 
The stork Plin. in his book. cha. Antipelargosis.  shal give credit unto natural Philosophers, both Greeks and latins,& to their proverbs, they bring up& comfort their dams in their old age,& by that means, show themselves thankful unto them, for their bringing up of thē, when they were young. How sayest thou Theophrast, is it not so:  Theo. 
In very deed the Hebrewes, give this Fowle, which here, in our language, we call a stork,& giveth her in the Hebrew tongue a name, which signifieth, mercy& courtesy. And right well say, that he were the most miserable of all the creatures in the world. And yet he dareth himself alone, boldly resist al order of nature, and refuse to do his duty, whereunto al the rest of the creatures are most obedient. He boldly dareth lift up himself, against the author, and governor of all things, who made him of the flyme of the earth, and in a moment is able again to dissolve him. I cannot enough marvel, when as I consider of this great pride and arrogancy of may, how he alone dareth resist his God, whom, all the rest of his creatures, the heauens, the earth, the sea, the stars and planets, al the elements, beasts, Angels, and devils obey.  Toby. 
Surely, for mine own parte, I wonder at it, even as much as thou dost.  Theo. 
But thou wouldest a great deal more wonder, if thou didst more narrowly consider, of the infirmity and misery of man, wherewith he is continually enuyroned, and as it were almost quiter and clean swallowed up, sithence the time of his conception, and what his nature and frame is. And therefore, seeing we are entred into this talk, me thinketh, that this consideration, and contemplation will not be amiss, for us to debate on. For the which cause, I am of the opinion, that wee might handle this point some what more at large, if you will agree unto me herein. Howbeit, I fear nothing but that we should be over long, because there are in this behalf many good things, and worthy diligent consideration.  jerom. 
I beleeue there is none here, but would be right glad of it. For, it is a matter worth the handling. But to the end we might all profit the more. I take it, that our best way were, for the present, to talk of some other matter between,& recreate ourselves a little in this faire Garden. For, when, our mindes are always occupied about one thing, it groweth irksome unto us at last, although it were never so pleasant or profitable. again, we cannot so well carry away all, when our mindes are surcharged with over great a multitude of matters, and besides, when wee haue no delight in that that we hear.  Eust. 
Without doubt, there is nothing more certain.  To. 
I know not my masters, whether you be weary or no: But for mine own part, I am weary of hearing of good talk, when I shall tarry all day and all night about it.  Theo. 
And, I do think, that there is none of us weary in this good company: But because we may be the fresher, and follow the matter more cheerely, I am contented to agree to jerome. And therefore, I think it most expedient, that we walk a little here in this garden, and look upon the goodly flowers, which God hath created for our use: to the end, that in beholding of them, we may the better always learn, to aclowledge his great power, wisdom, bounty, and that thereby, we may haue the better occasion to praise him, and yield him our humble and hearly thankes: And then wee may after enter again into our matter. And where wee haue heretofore spoken in general, of the disorder and confuseduesse of the world, and of the danger wherein it standeth, wee will also speak some what more, in particular of man, who is the cause of all the disorder, and great mischiefs, that at present reign in the world.  tub. 
Seeing you are all of this opiuion, I promise you, I for my parte, will not be against it. Let us rise therefore, and get us hence.  
FINIS.   

Imprinted at London at the three Cranes in the vintry, by Thomas Dawson, for John Perin in Paules Church yard at the sign of the Angel.  
1583.